cojo is dominating

[playblair]

call up cojo to get a legit shot at the back up pg spot ...................


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[superjames1992]

Dominating a bunch of scrubs in the D-League. Whoopity doo.

[Brunodf]

He can play D and pass, already better than Neal tbh

[AussieFanKurt]

Dominating a bunch of scrubs in the D-League. Whoopity doo.

[playblair]

hi haters ...............

[dbestpro]

Trade him while he seems to have value.

[AFBlue]

I'm not sure what more they need to see from CoJo at this point from a development perspective. He's a much improved shooter from when he came into the league, plays solid defense and runs the sets effectively. He hasn't had a breakout game with the big club, but he hasn't looked bad in the small time he's been given either.

I suppose the Spurs have the luxury of depth to be patient, but imo Joseph actually represents the lowest risk proposition for backup PG at the moment.

[Juggity]

He can play D and pass, already better than Neal tbh

Better than Neal at the point guard position, but he's not better than Neal overall.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

I don't think Joseph is an NBA player. I have never liked his game or though of him as a contributing player. He has a LONG WAY to go.

[DapDaGenius]

Dominating a bunch of scrubs in the D-League. Whoopity doo.

Dominating scrubs > Playing like a scrub

It's a start.

[BatManu20]

Glad he's ballin down there but the NBA is whole different animal. I bet he stays down there the rest of this year and makes the team next year.

[HarlemHeat37]

He just looks so soft every time he's on the floor, tbh..

[benstanfield]

De Colo > Mills > CoJo > Neal at backup PG, but I realize it's highly debatable and the sample size is tiny with anyone but Neal (that's just how much I dislike Neal at backup pg).

NDC just seems like the only one who could potentially create for his teammates on offense and not just run the plays, but he is a severely limited scorer and defender so it wouldn't surprise me if he rides the pine in the playoffs, especially given his youth. This brings up the point that De Colo is a terrible option alongside Manu, because with Manu running the PnR De Colo becomes a spot-up shooter. Sure he can hit an open shot here and there, but Neal/Mills will always be better for this.

I put Mills over Neal because - perhaps illogically - I feel as though they basically constitute the same gamble for Pop on a night by night basis. Either they hit threes or they don't. Mills on his best nights looks basically as good as Neal on his best nights- lights out shooting and acceptable defense. Thing is, Mills has never been given what I see as a true shot at backup PG. Sure, a game or two here or there he'll play if Neal is injured or earlier in the season when it seemed like the spot was up for grabs, but I don't feel like he ever got the kind of shot Neal got last year, he's never been given consistent minutes for this team. Sure, the Olympics are the Olympics, but we could all agree that Mills at least has more upward potential in the league right now than Neal, who isn't even guaranteed to be on the team next year. We know what Gary Neal is. We know what he's going to be, come playoff time (if not worse). I don't think you can make the case that Mills, given Neal's minutes, will come playoff time give us anything worse that what Neal gives us, other than the fact that Neal hit a clutch three in the playoffs two years ago.

Grooming De Colo could be critical, though, because if he can playmake at even a comparable rate to Manu in the PnR, it gives us the option to start Manu and tell Brooks to fuck off with that Sefalosha bullshit. Manu will eat Westbrook for breakfast.

And keeping Neal at least somewhat confident will be useful in the playoffs, when Manu eats a ton of minutes and Green/Neal basically give us the flexibility to be defense/offense-centric off the bench, depending on our need.

Gah, I hate thinking about this. I don't envy Pop.

[superjames1992]

Dominating scrubs > Playing like a scrub

It's a start.
LOL, true.

I still think Nando should be our backup PG, though, tbh, per par.

[DapDaGenius]

LOL, true.

I still think Nando should be our starting PG, though, tbh, per par.

Agreed.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

that doesn't surprise me. he looked so good in summer league. i expected expiring undersized neal to get traded... free up some minutes for cojo. the spurs patience and evaluation process is excessive, imo.

[Darius McCrary]

The Nando signing totally screwed over Joseph. With this new emphasis on defensive relentlessness, Joseph would be a great fit. But he still has not been given a true chance this season, and unless Nando has a meltdown of Franchise Historic proportions, I don't see Joseph getting a shot next year either. It was an easy call from draft night that the Spurs made a mistake in drafting Joseph. Not that Joseph is bad, it's just that the Spurs did not need him. Him being the least played draft pick of the last 4 or 5 years proves that.

[Tuddy]

He will get his crack next season

[Raven]

next year.

[TrainOfThought5]

people are saying next year but isnt De Colo Mills and Parker all slated to be back next year??

[racm]

Mills' contract is a player option for next year.

I'll say this though: I think he's gonna be in the rotation next year. Hill was drafted after playing 3 years in college; Joseph was a one-and-done kid.

[Chinook]

The fact that the Spurs have committed to paying Joseph for three years shows that they believe in his potential. They picked up his option after training camp, so they probably had already decided that he was was going to spend this year in Austin before guaranteeing him the money. They also could have salary dumped him and chose not to.

De Colo doesn't have Joseph's upside at the point. If Cory comes into camp showing the stuff he's been showing all year, he should have a good chance to beat Nando in a fair competition.

One factor that may come into play is what happens with Ginobili. If Manu retires, then De Colo probably moves to the two and Joseph and Mills compete for minutes at the point.

[TrainOfThought5]

The fact that the Spurs have committed to paying Joseph for three years shows that they believe in his potential. They picked up his option after training camp, so they probably had already decided that he was was going to spend this year in Austin before guaranteeing him the money. They also could have salary dumped him and chose not to.

De Colo doesn't have Joseph's upside at the point. If Cory comes into camp showing the stuff he's been showing all year, he should have a good chance to beat Nando in a fair competition.

One factor that may come into play is what happens with Ginobili. If Manu retires, then De Colo probably moves to the two and Joseph and Mills compete for minutes at the point.

can de colo shoot well enough to play 2 Guard?

[elemento]

Honestly I am not sold on Nando's ability to be a full-time PG. Never been since his arrival. He is a turnover machine as a PG. To me he is a 2 with great passing abilities, Manu-like.

[Chinook]

can de colo shoot well enough to play 2 Guard?

He was all right in Europe. Another summer with Chip will help him.

[TrainOfThought5]

Honestly I am not sold on Nando's ability to be a full-time PG. Never been since his arrival. He is a turnover machine as a PG. To me he is a 2 with great passing abilities, Manu-like.

im not sold on De Colo's full time ability to be a 2 Guard. His scoring ability is mediocre and his variety of ways to score is anemic. To me his a tall PG, who needs more time in the system.

[bluebellmaniac]

Trade him while he seems to have value.

LOL!

[elemento]

Plus, I think we should be more patient with Cory. SA absolutely knew he was raw when they drafted him. Most scouts said he should have stayed in college instead of leaving so early, so taking him with our 1st round pick was all about potential, not short-term production. I think Cojo will end up surprising a lot of people once he gets his chance. I've always liked him as prospect.

[bluebellmaniac]

It's basically a contract year for Mills, NDC and CoJo next year. Who stays on the team after next year is anyone's guess. We know how players get themselves into Pop's doghouse. When that happens, it's all up in the air. Until then, they all need to absorb as much basketball IQ on the Spurs system as they can. Pop likes smart players and PG needs to make the right decisions. Right now I think CoJo has to grow A LOT to make it after next season. Not a knock on him, just that we have 3 backup PG and we really only need 2 (Plus Manu plugs very well into limited minutes at PG). If we're keeping an extra spot for development, it should be for a 3, 4 or 5, not a 1. I don't like any of these guys as an extra 2 either, I think we can get a better pure shooter/defensive player.

[bluebellmaniac]

Plus, I think we should be more patient with Cory. SA absolutely knew he was raw when they drafted him. Most scouts said he should have stayed in college instead of leaving so early, so taking him with our 1st round pick was all about potential, not short-term production. I think Cojo will end up surprising a lot of people once he gets his chance. I've always liked him as prospect.

True. He'll get his chance next year, but he'll still be incredibly young. Hope he can make that leap.

[elemento]

im not sold on De Colo's full time ability to be a 2 Guard. His scoring ability is mediocre and his variety of ways to score is anemic. To me his a tall PG, who needs more time in the system.I don't disagree with you and that's probably the reason why we still don't know if he will be a PG or a SG in the future. In my opinion, it's easier to fix his broken jump-shot (working with Chip) than fixing his whole game in order to become a full-time PG in the NBA. It's much harder to be a PG than a SG in the NBA.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Every minute Cory has seen as a Spur, he has tried hard, and played with all his ability on defense. I think he has enormous upside, he can score, and he can facilitate. But it's that defense that I'm looking forward to seeing develop, it shows promise already.

[Chinook]

I had court-side seats for the final Clippers game last season. Los Angeles had pulled away at the end, so Pop took out the starters. The Clippers didn't do the same, and it meant that Joseph had to guard Paul for the last minute or so. I was right next to them when Paul iso'd at the left wing. Out of no where, Cory shouted at him. He started egging Paul on to try to beat him off the dribble. Paul tried initially before just scoring on a pull-up (a pointless basket). Joseph showed me something that game. I like his fire.

[DPG21920]

How can people disparage CoJo at all? Sure, he's playing in the D-League, but as a Spurs fan you have to be thrilled with the jumps he has made. He now looks like he has a shot at being a valuable rotation member one day. From where he started to now? That is tremendously exciting for the Spurs.

[cd021]

He was all right in Europe. Another summer with Chip will help him.

His shot actually seems to be improving through out the season. Since that Miami game he seems to be shooting the 3 ball with much more confidence.

[Spur|n|Austin]

I had court-side seats for the final Clippers game last season. Los Angeles had pulled away at the end, so Pop took out the starters. The Clippers didn't do the same, and it meant that Joseph had to guard Paul for the last minute or so. I was right next to them when Paul iso'd at the left wing. Out of no where, Cory shouted at him. He started egging Paul on to try to beat him off the dribble. Paul tried initially before just scoring on a pull-up (a pointless basket). Joseph showed me something that game. I like his fire.

I sit court side at the toros games and see the same thing. He's got a few things he needs to work on, but he's moving forward in the right direction.

[benstanfield]

Mills has had the same opportunities as De Colo and has not produced. Mills is the one that should be in the Dleaugue. He always looks lost when he is on the floor and for someone that's suppose to be a lights out shooter, he can't hit shit. I rather have Neal at pg than Mills.

Stats don't agree with you brother.

Per 36
PTS = Neal > Mills > De Colo
3PT% = Mills > De Colo > Neal
FG % = Mills > De Colo > Neal
FT % = Mills > Neal > De Colo
ORtg = Mills > Neal > De Colo
AST = De Colo > Mills > Neal
STL = Mills = De Colo > Neal
DRtg = De Colo > Mills > Neal
WS/48 = Mills > De Colo > Neal

Could be skewed because it comes in garbage time, but again, that points to the fact that Mills hasn't been given a consistent shot like Neal was. I'm not saying he's better than NDC or even Neal right now but he is very much comparable to Neal, seems to be shooting better, is younger, won't be a FA, and is averaging the least amount of minutes of the three. We know what Neal at PG equates to, and it is nothing but a liability against deep teams. If I were Pop I would groom NDC and Mills from here on out and use Neal as what he actually is, a microwave off the bench.

[AFBlue]

Better than Neal at the point guard position, but he's not better than Neal overall.

Not sure about that tbh. Neal is a one-trick pony and he just hasn't been consistent enough with that trick to warrant PT when all guards are healthy.

At least with CoJo you have someone playing a position that is natural to them and knows what is required to do it successfully.

[jesterbobman]

I don't think the plan was for Cory to play in his first 2 years. I think they saw a guy with tools(Size, shooting, defensive ability) who could be really good, and didn't love another guy in that spot.

For Cory, I think he wanted to play PG full time, and Kybongo arriving might have meant time off ball, which wouldn't have been great for his development as a PG.

[callo1]

Better than Neal at the point guard position, but he's not better than Neal overall.

Running the backup pg position? Are you being serious?

Neal does one thing better...shoot the three, and he isn't even doing that better of late.

[playblair]

cojo has proven he can get to & finish at the rim on the nba level .................. nado can not finish at the rim ......................

cojo has had multiple spectacular spin moves in an nba game ..................

[Juggity]

Running the backup pg position? Are you being serious?

Neal does one thing better...shoot the three, and he isn't even doing that better of late.

Yes, I am serious. Cojo has not proven he can create his own shot at the NBA level, or in general be an effective shooter. Neal has done so consistently — particularly in the playoffs. Cory has great potential, and is probably better at running the backup PG position than Neal, but Neal is a better NBA player as of right now, by virtue of having played in the NBA for 3 years and succeeded. Playing in the NBA is about filling a niche. Neal fills his real niche just about perfectly, which is why he is in the NBA and not the D-League like Joseph. One day, Joseph's skills may allow him to fill the niche he was drafted to fill, but until he plays consistently in the NBA against NBA-level competition, he is not better than Neal. We can't make inferences based on his performances against D-League level talent.

[AFBlue]

I think the CoJo "hate" is pretty funny tbh. De Colo and Mills have both been given opportunity to secure the role of backup PG, and neither has played consistently enough to do so.

Seems like Joseph should at least be given an opportunity to prove he can be a consistent player for the big club.

[AFBlue]

Yes, I am serious. Cojo has not proven he can create his own shot at the NBA level, or in general be an effective shooter. Neal has done so consistently — particularly in the playoffs. Cory has great potential, and is probably better at running the backup PG position than Neal, but Neal is a better NBA player as of right now, by virtue of having played in the NBA for 3 years and succeeded. Playing in the NBA is about filling a niche. Neal fills his real niche just about perfectly, which is why he is in the NBA and not the D-League like Joseph. One day, Joseph's skills may allow him to fill the niche he was drafted to fill, but until he plays consistently in the NBA against NBA-level competition, he is not better than Neal. We can't make inferences based on his performances against D-League level talent.

What opportunity has Joseph had to prove anything? From what I recall, Joseph has played solid mistake-free ball in his very limited minutes.

[spurraider21]

Even if Nando isn't putting up numbers, lately he's shown the ability to run the offense fluidly, which is all the backup pg needs to do. His defense has also been better than anything Neal can do. It's pretty apparent at this point Mills is just pure energy and isn't somebody I'd like to see play extended minutes unless he's simply on fire.

I do want CoJo to get a shot next season for sure. He's got the potential to be a good starter in my eyes. Dynamite defender and an ever improving offensive game. I think there's a decent chance Neal bolts because he will get overpaid somewhere. Good for him tbh. Green is going to start at shooting guard and get big minutes with Manu off the bench, so there's no need for Neal if we have TP, De Colo, and CoJo at the pg spot.

[ace3g]

How can people disparage CoJo at all? Sure, he's playing in the D-League, but as a Spurs fan you have to be thrilled with the jumps he has made. He now looks like he has a shot at being a valuable rotation member one day. From where he started to now? That is tremendously exciting for the Spurs.

Exactly, I think he can make a great impact defensively while still running the offense; his jump shot will only get better. Parker needs to teach him the tear drop. He has the ability to shoot 3s if defender goes under screens as well.

Like Kawhi, CJ is still suppose to be in college technically.

[superjames1992]

Honestly, if Cojo was actually going to be a really good player, he wouldn't be stuck in the D-League at this point in his career. People need to realize that. At best, he'll be a fringe NBA player who may be a team's 2nd or 3rd string PG.

[bluebellmaniac]

Honestly, if Cojo was actually going to be a really good player, he wouldn't be stuck in the D-League at this point in his career. People need to realize that. At best, he'll be a fringe NBA player who may be a team's 2nd or 3rd string PG.

He's a rookie! :lol LOL! It's not like he's been around for a couple years. He can't even legally drink in Texas.... and there's talk about "at this point in his career"... LOL!!!:lol

[superjames1992]

He's a rookie! :lol LOL! It's not like he's been around for a couple years. He can't even legally drink in Texas.... and there's talk about "at this point in his career"... LOL!!!:lol
This is his second season.

And if he was any good, he wouldn't play in the D-League at all, certainly not in his second season. He's 21 and a half. How is he not able to legally drink in Texas?

[ChumpDumper]

Honestly, if Cojo was actually going to be a really good player, he would be an NBA rotation player in what should've been his junior season at UT. People need to realize that. At best, he'll be a fringe NBA player who may be a team's 2nd or 3rd string PG.Does it seem the same when it's phrased like that?

[benefactor]

I always thought a 2nd string PG was a rotation player. Guess I was wrong.

[superjames1992]

Does it seem the same when it's phrased like that?
Yes, it does.

Kawhi Leonard is the same age, bro. Good players don't play in the D-League. That's just the way it is.

[bluebellmaniac]

This is his second season.

And if he was any good, he wouldn't play in the D-League at all, certainly not in his second season. He's 21 and a half. How is he not able to legally drink in Texas?

I stand corrected, time flies when there aren't many opportunities to watch the games. Your argument seems to be that anyone who plays in the D-League will never be good enough for the NBA.... You do know what the "D" stands for, don't you?

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, it does.

Kawhi Leonard is the same age, bro. Good players don't play in the D-League. That's just the way it is.Several have bro. That's just the way it is.

[benefactor]

Good players don't play in the D-League. That's just the way it is.
Chris Andersen and Chuck Hayes say hello.

[superjames1992]

Chris Andersen and Chuck Hayes say hello.
Neither of those are good players.

[benefactor]

:lol

[Chinook]

Yes, it does.

Kawhi Leonard is the same age, bro. Good players don't play in the D-League. That's just the way it is.

Leonard is a year older than Joseph. That may not seem to matter, but another year in college could have made Joseph a lottery pick. Regardless, players develop at different paces. Nash didn't look very good at all his first couple of years.

Also, I think he'd be the backup point if the Spurs didn't have three other players who deserved a shot in training camp. Leonard only had to beat out Jefferson ... which he didn't do (although he deserved to) until RJ was traded. If the Spurs had had the wing depth that the Pacers had, Leonard probably wouldn't have even been drafted by the Spurs, let alone have gotten the opportunity to show his skills.

I wouldn't knock the D-league too much. Productive players have come from there, including Gee and Green. You may be one of the many people on this site who crap on Green (not accusing you, as I really don't know), but if Joseph turns out to be a point-guard version of Green, then he was worth the pick. He definitely shows enough potential that he can still become a dynamic contributor.

[ChumpDumper]

Neither of those are good players.:lmao

[callo1]

What opportunity has Joseph had to prove anything? From what I recall, Joseph has played solid mistake-free ball in his very limited minutes.

This

[Bill_Brasky]

Honestly, if Cojo was actually going to be a really good player, he wouldn't be stuck in the D-League at this point in his career. People need to realize that. At best, he'll be a fringe NBA player who may be a team's 2nd or 3rd string PG.

Just no. It was very clear when he was drafted that he was gonna be a Toro project. He's proven to be a consistent player with them. Not saying he's ever gonna be a superstar, but he had to start somewhere. Next year he'll get his chance to prove he can do it in the big league.

His improvements in Austin seem to indicate that he's very coachable, which is the type of player the Spurs love.

[callo1]

Yes, I am serious. Cojo has not proven he can create his own shot at the NBA level, or in general be an effective shooter. Neal has done so consistently — particularly in the playoffs. Cory has great potential, and is probably better at running the backup PG position than Neal, but Neal is a better NBA player as of right now, by virtue of having played in the NBA for 3 years and succeeded. Playing in the NBA is about filling a niche. Neal fills his real niche just about perfectly, which is why he is in the NBA and not the D-League like Joseph. One day, Joseph's skills may allow him to fill the niche he was drafted to fill, but until he plays consistently in the NBA against NBA-level competition, he is not better than Neal. We can't make inferences based on his performances against D-League level talent.

Comparing Neal playing the shooting guard to a guy playing one year of college ball and playing the pg
is apples and oranges.

We are talking about filling the Spurs glaring weakness at pg . Neal comes in and handles the ball and immediately teams ball pressure and trap him...he hasn't a clue of how to deal with it. Cojo is a hell of a lot better defender, and he doesn't poop himself at the first sign of ball pressure.

Hey, run Neal at the two guard, I think he can do alright there, minus his total lack of defense, but placing him at the point is ignorant.

I honestly would rather see Sjack run the point than Neal.

Pop has had this entire season to integrate cojo into the NBA as a pg, but has failed to so....that is a wasted opportunity IMO, and if Manu goes down in the playoffs, the Spurs are done as a result.

[BackHome]

I don't think CoJo is NBA material at this point but I would rather him play PG then Neal any day of the week. The backup PG is going to come and bite us big time Pop needs to start getting these guys ready for the Playoffs.

Pop also needs to give Blairs minutes to Baynes cause we are going to need him if against the Grizz and OK..

[superjames1992]

I wouldn't knock the D-league too much. Productive players have come from there, including Gee and Green. You may be one of the many people on this site who crap on Green (not accusing you, as I really don't know), but if Joseph turns out to be a point-guard version of Green, then he was worth the pick. He definitely shows enough potential that he can still become a dynamic contributor.

I could see him become a PG version of Green, too, though I don't necessarily consider Green to be a "good" player. He is average, which is okay. I am not a Green hater.

I'm not saying Joseph was a bad pick. That is up for debate. Some people on this forum seem to think Joseph is Tony Parker's heir apparent, though, which I think is a bit ridiculous.

[Chinook]

I could see him become a PG version of Green, too, though I don't necessarily consider Green to be a "good" player. He is average, which is okay. I am not a Green hater.

I'm not saying Joseph was a bad pick. That is up for debate. Some people on this forum seem to think Joseph is Tony Parker's heir apparent, though, which I think is a bit ridiculous.

Even being average could put Joseph at the head of the back-up point line. He has good handles (better than Mills), he plays good defense (better than Neal) and he's not afraid to score (better than De Colo). He has enough advantages over the other players ahead of him that he should at least get a shot.

He probably will never be the caliber of player Parker is, but that doesn't matter, since their contracts end at the same time.

[DanAu]

I would simply doubt that the long term vision includes all of De Colo, Mills, Neal or CoJo....which of them it doesnt include probably depends on injury, trades and performance, but if you can currently fit all four on a roster, where they (aside from Neal) dont really have a huge impact on the team, why not ride that for as long as you can? Even if its just for insurance sake.

[maverick1948]

CoJo is not going anywhere. If he was not expected to do something as a Spur next season, he would have been bundled with Blair/Neal for something we could use. He will turn 22 in Aug. so it is not like he is old. He is playing at a level that should be classed as the same as minor league baseball. A step above college.

So many on here have not seem him play but say he is trash or not a NBA player. He has been doing what the Spurs wanted him to do. DEVELOP A SHOT. That is what he has done. His passing has gotten better. And he gets a ton of minutes.