Aron Baynes, Nando De Colo Both Assigned To Austin Toros

[Robz4000]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/130315_baynes_decolo_assigned_to_toros

They have a game tonight so it's prolly another brief stint, but who knows?

[Mel_13]

They also play in Austin tomorrow, so it's for one or two games.

[Strategic]

Baynes and De Colo have been getting scrub minutes with the Spurs and it isn't helping any, tbh just playing against street ballers. At least in Austin maybe get a game or two in against and with some guys that are trying to accomplish something.

[jermaine]

Baynes needs real NBA time. Im tired of Diaw, Bonner, Blair bs.

[Bruno]

Should be only for one game.

While going to the Toros will help them conditioning wise, it won't do much basketball wise. Both have played hundreds of games at a higher level overseas.

[Hoops Czar]

Should be only for one game.

While going to the Toros will help them conditioning wise, it won't do much basketball wise. Both have played hundreds of games at a higher level overseas.

Sitting on the bench does them less good.

[Bruno]

Sitting on the bench does them less good.

Are you sure?

[ChumpDumper]

Tonight's game is on FSSW @ 7:30.

Looks like they also picked up Lester Hudson for their stretch run.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/austin/Toros_Acquire_Lester_Hudson_31513.html

[Strategic]

Should be only for one game.

While going to the Toros will help them conditioning wise, it won't do much basketball wise. Both have played hundreds of games at a higher level overseas.Bruno are there any more league roster deadlines this year that will affect teams? i.e. maximum players, 10 day contract usage?

[Bruno]

Bruno are there any more league roster deadlines this year that will affect teams? i.e. maximum players, 10 day contract usage?

There really aren't. There are no rules change between now and the last day of the regular season which is the last day to sign players.

[ace3g]

Baynes showing a nice turnaround jumper in the post tonight.

[ChumpDumper]

Baynes jumper is money.

[ChumpDumper]

lol Baynes ejected

[ace3g]

yeah , lol, upset after he thought it should have been an offensive foul

[BackHome]

Man the D-League has some bad refs..

[chapnis]

Lol Baynes

[chapnis]

Wow, softest tech I've ever seen. He didn't even know what happened.

[TheGoldStandard]

He's been hanging with SJax

[ChumpDumper]

Man the D-League has some bad refs..Eh, those were calls that at best could have gone either way. Not worth the techs tbh.

[chapnis]

Eh, those were calls that at best could have gone either way. Not worth the techs tbh.
Not sure if his reaction warranted a tech.

[Pop]

FREE BAYNES

HE's so much better than rookie Splitter who fell on his ass dunking the ball and couldn't shoot to save his life. Guy is skilled and ballsy, he should play in the playoff when we will need to bully Miami inside.

[TheGoldStandard]

If any of the NBA "stars" had there typical reaction they would have been fined, suspended and ejected within a few minutes... Did not warrant any tech.

[crc21209]

Well that was a waste of sending him down to the Toros. All he did was get ejected...:lol

[ChumpDumper]

Nando finally finding his range.

[TJastal]

Should be only for one game.

While going to the Toros will help them conditioning wise, it won't do much basketball wise. Both have played hundreds of games at a higher level overseas.

Not so. According to rumphumpers tragically inbred little brother Strategic these Toros fellows have no equals.

[chapnis]

Well that was a waste of sending him down to the Toros. All he did was get ejected...:lol

He couldn't be bothered with it

[ace3g]

After those turnaround jumpers from Baynes, Pop saw enough, told him to get ejected, and come back to SA...

[ChumpDumper]

Not so. According to rumphumpers tragically inbred little brother Strategic these Toros fellows have no equals.Not even a good straw man.

[freetiago]

Yup Pop doesnt want anyone else to see he can actually play so they cant call him out for not using a 7 footer on the roster after we get prison raped on the boards and teams run layup lines on us
hes gonna get the Tiago treatment
how long til Pop calls him a no skilled blue collar hustle player

[Strategic]

Not so. According to rumphumpers tragically inbred little brother Strategic these Toros fellows have no equals.Nice one dumbass!

[ChumpDumper]

Yup Pop doesnt want anyone else to see he can actually play so they cant call him out for not using a 7 footer on the roster after we get prison raped on the boards and teams run layup lines on us
hes gonna get the Tiago treatment
how long til Pop calls him a no skilled blue collar hustle player
He's just not that good right now.

[Pop]

Yup Pop doesnt want anyone else to see he can actually play so they cant call him out for not using a 7 footer on the roster after we get prison raped on the boards and teams run layup lines on us
hes gonna get the Tiago treatment
how long til Pop calls him a no skilled blue collar hustle player

Lol so true, he still give the same bullshit answer that Tiago had always been the same player since he got here, non-issueing every Splitter question with the "he's just doing what he was doing in Europe and now he's healthy again" line.

[ChumpDumper]

Yup Pop doesnt want anyone else to see he can actually playspurfan is funny

[Pop]

He's just not that good right now.

How bad can the best rebounder in Europe with a good looking jumper can be? He blocks shot as well, I mean how bad can he be. He's not timid or scared like a rookie Splitter may have been at first either, the guys has some character, unfortunately Cesar "Popovitch" Millan prefer docile and well behaved players like Matty B.

[Strategic]

If the Spurs and Blair do indeed part ways this off season maybe it will give Baynes some minutes next year.

[ChumpDumper]

How bad can the best rebounder in Europe with a good looking jumper can be? He blocks shot as well, I mean how bad can he be. He's not timid or scared like a rookie Splitter may have been at first either, the guys has some character, unfortunately Cesar "Popovitch" Millan prefer docile and well behaved players like Matty B.He can be not as good as you think he is.

[TJastal]

He's just not that good right now.
And these playoffs just won't be for him, yada yada....*yawns*

[ChumpDumper]

And these playoffs just won't be for him, yada yada....*yawns*Why should they be for him?

Because you don't like the other guys who aren't even going to be in the rotation either?

Great job, coach :tu

[2centsworth]

Pop needs to find him 10mins a game to see if he can figure it out. hard to coach nasty, which baynes seems to have plenty. The extra pass hoosier style BB is great, but our Championship teams always won with Nasty.

[TJastal]

If the Spurs and Blair do indeed part ways this off season maybe it will give Baynes some minutes next year.

He'll still be behind Bonner in the rotation most likely. Its possible he could vault ahead of Bonner. But it would likely require red hair dye and approximately 10000 practice 3's with an accompanying chanve of mindset to stop all the foolhardy notions of interior defense.

[Pop]

I think the big fail and I said it at the time was not moving Blair even for a second rounder. Now Pop is getting all emotional and shit, and Blair has been well behaved it's true, but at the end of the day you gotta go all in to try to win a championship when you can and Baynes looks ready to help in our weakest area. The FO fucked up by not moving Blair but what is done is done, letting him cockblock Baynes is not the solution either, two wrongs don't make a right.

Free Baynes.

[Pop]

Pop needs to find him 10mins a game to see if he can figure it out. hard to coach nasty, which baynes seems to have plenty. The extra pass hoosier style BB is great, but our Championship teams always won with Nasty.

:toast

[TJastal]

Why should they be for him?

Because you don't like the other guys who aren't even going to be in the rotation either?

Great job, coach :tu

Both Boner and Blair will see minutes in the playoffs. Book it.

[mabrignani]

baynes is very overrated on this forum

[ChumpDumper]

Both Boner and Blair will see minutes in the playoffs. Book it.Did I say they wouldn't?

Your straw men are as bad as your talent evaluations.

[TJastal]

baynes is very overrated on this forum

I bet you said the same thing about Splitter 2 years ago. A future Splitter / Baynes frontline sounds intriguing to me.

[freetiago]

not really
just 5-10 minutes of not letting teams run layup lines against us is all theyre asking for
hes had very impressive blocks in his limited minutes and he has a jumpshot
our recent losses and the reason our games have been close is due to the turd tower bench frontcourt and Ginobili
all 3 playing 0 D and letting everyone get whatever they want
his offense will be fine with Diaw/Ginobili spoonfeeding him and he has actual presence on the floor unlike Bonner/Blair
other teams gain confidence when those two step on the floor

[ChumpDumper]

I bet you said the same thing about Splitter 2 years ago. A future Splitter / Baynes frontline sounds intriguing to me.Well, here's what you said three years ago about Splitter:
The guy will be a typical stiff in this league.. I think Aaron Gray and Sean Marks will have better and more distinguishable careers and that's even IF he decides to actually come to the nba.Forgive us if we don't trust your scouting abilities.

[2centsworth]

I bet you said the same thing about Splitter 2 years ago. A future Splitter / Baynes frontline sounds intriguing to me.

you're projecting way too much on Baynes. I'll argue he needs a few good minutes, but saying he's the future is way too premature.

[Strategic]

He'll still be behind Bonner in the rotation most likely. Its possible he could vault ahead of Bonner. But it would likely require red hair dye and approximately 10000 practice 3's with an accompanying chanve of mindset to stop all the foolhardy notions of interior defense.With Bonner and Blair alternating between the fourth and fifth big then that will give him minutes if Blair does leave. If Baynes shows real progress with those minutes then he will get some time. Getting his first summer league experience this year should help him.

[Strategic]

Well, here's what you said three years ago about Splitter.

TJastal in his best Steve Erkel voice, "Did I say that"?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the offensive and defensive sets. When you are watching Baynes play you can see he is getting used to the defensive 3 seconds rule. He is attentive but he is brand new to the league. Add in to that how he needs to anticipate who needs help when what angles and spacing he is expected take on pnr defense. On offense he is not going to know the plays nor how to run the motion offense. Where to space on screens, when to post, how to anticipate what his teammates are going to do etc.

Add into that how his teammates also need to learn him and it becomes a snafu when you are midway through the season. He is laready having to integrate CoJo with the other guys.

Splitter was hurt and hurt a lot. When you miss the 20 straight practice days prior to the season that is going to hinder you. When you miss months during the middle of a season it is going to hinder you. And also Splitter up until this year lacked core strength. You could tell on rebounds because he would get pushed on and he got bent over like Gumby. He had a reputation for being soft for very good reason.

Splitter is getting playing time this year because he knows the system, he is healthy, and he is physically able to compete in the NBA. Now what season prior to this one can you say that about?

Baynes is physically prepared to play in the NBA. You can tell because he overpowers people on the glass. What drew my eye was someone trying to post his up and he just lifter his leg and uprooted the post player. He got called for a foul but he needs to learn how to translate that power to the NBA game. He also is not used to the speed on the NBA game.

We have seen him run, jump, move laterally etc and it appears that he is physically capable. He is healthy but he does not know the system. We only have a dozen or so games left before the playoffs. Maybe you guys play too much NBA 2k13 or something because it just doesn't work that way. Baynes is not going to get his shot until next season and that should be self evident. Let's hope he can wrap his head around the Spurs system and the NBA game. He hasn't yet.

[TJastal]

With Bonner and Blair alternating between the fourth and fifth big then that will give him minutes if Blair does leave. If Baynes shows real progress with those minutes then he will get some time. Getting his first summer league experience this year should help him.
Right on. Compared to what he's used to he's probably learned a ton playing in just a few short stints in the much ballyhooed summer league.

[TJastal]

Well, here's what you said three years ago about Splitter:Forgive us if we don't trust your scouting abilities.

Lol bringing up 3 year old "projections"of Splitter while he was still playing in Europe.

[freetiago]

He played for the Australian National team which runs the Spurs sets and is coached by Brett Brown
Diaw came in middle of the season and was thrown into the starting lineup
he said something along the lines of playing with France and running the Spurs sets is why he could

need a better excuse then that tbh
He doesnt even have to leave the paint on defense
on offense his role will be screens and pick and pop jumpers
the hardest part would be learning how to set back screens and setting screens to free up shooters
and since hes playing with the bench the role isnt even as complicated
its just Ginobili pick and roll all the time
the starting lineup is where the plays get more intricate

[ChumpDumper]

Lol bringing up 3 year old "projections"of Splitter while he was still playing in Europe.Hey, you wrote them.

Turns out you were about as wrong as you could possibly be.

You're pretty terrible at this. That's just one example.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Chumpdumper is dead right on this one but can't be bothered to properly explain it, so here's Fuzzy doing it for him:


It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the offensive and defensive sets. When you are watching Baynes play you can see he is getting used to the defensive 3 seconds rule. He is attentive but he is brand new to the league. Add in to that how he needs to anticipate who needs help when what angles and spacing he is expected take on pnr defense. On offense he is not going to know the plays nor how to run the motion offense. Where to space on screens, when to post, how to anticipate what his teammates are going to do etc.

Add into that how his teammates also need to learn him and it becomes a snafu when you are midway through the season. He is laready having to integrate CoJo with the other guys.

Splitter was hurt and hurt a lot. When you miss the 20 straight practice days prior to the season that is going to hinder you. When you miss months during the middle of a season it is going to hinder you. And also Splitter up until this year lacked core strength. You could tell on rebounds because he would get pushed on and he got bent over like Gumby. He had a reputation for being soft for very good reason.

Splitter is getting playing time this year because he knows the system, he is healthy, and he is physically able to compete in the NBA. Now what season prior to this one can you say that about?

Baynes is physically prepared to play in the NBA. You can tell because he overpowers people on the glass. What drew my eye was someone trying to post his up and he just lifter his leg and uprooted the post player. He got called for a foul but he needs to learn how to translate that power to the NBA game. He also is not used to the speed on the NBA game.

We have seen him run, jump, move laterally etc and it appears that he is physically capable. He is healthy but he does not know the system. We only have a dozen or so games left before the playoffs. Maybe you guys play too much NBA 2k13 or something because it just doesn't work that way. Baynes is not going to get his shot until next season and that should be self evident. Let's hope he can wrap his head around the Spurs system and the NBA game. He hasn't yet.

BANE!!! is not ready to play anything but garbage minutes yet because he does not know how to play in the NBA, nor the Spurs' systems. It's as simple as that. He is a great addition for next year and beyond, but that's all he was brought in for.

We will live and die by the guys who know how to play the system, and that's all there is to it.

Interesting that NDC has been relegated. I think this tells us Pop is going to go with Joseph/Neal as the backup PG... let's hope more CoJo than Neal!

[ChumpDumper]

He played for the Australian National team which runs the Spurs sets and is coached by Brett Brown
Diaw came in middle of the season and was thrown into the starting lineup
he said something along the lines of playing with France and running the Spurs sets is why he could

need a better excuse then that tbhBoris Diaw played in the NBA for eight seasons.

[Pop]

He's ready enough to be the fourth big we need, to be the guy who makes our rebounding better, improves the interior D of the bench and allows us to pair Tiago and Boris as little as possible.

He has the skills, the mental fortitude and the physique. When you have that much on the table, you make sure to make him ready, no but no if.

Funny how he said he wanted to be a Reggie Evans when he already too good of a shooter to be anything like him.

[Capt Bringdown]

Baynes doesn't have to be "good" right now. We could give him Blair's limited minutes because Blair simply isn't able to rebound or defend at an NBA level.
Maybe Baynes can't either, but it's worth a shot. What's there to lose?

[freetiago]

Boris Diaw played in the NBA for eight seasons.

but he hasnt played in the fabled Spurs system which takes at least 2 years to learn i thought
he came in the middle of a lockout season with 0 practices and fit right in
lol at how bad these excuses are

[ChumpDumper]

Baynes doesn't have to be "good" right now.:lol

[ChumpDumper]

but he hasnt played in the fabled Spurs system which takes at least 2 years to learn i thought
he came in the middle of a lockout season with 0 practices and fit right in
lol at how bad these excuses areSo you're choosing to ignore eight seasons of NBA experience.

Sounds like something you'd do tbh. Let me know how it works out for you.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Blair is actually a pretty good pnr defender. He falls asleep on his rotations though.

Baynes doesn't know the angles to take, the spacing to zone it up, nor is he used to the speed on the NBA players on pnr. You can see it when he is playing 3rd string guys. NBA teams run a TON of pnr and you can tell he doesn't know how to defend it. You think Blair is bad on rotations? Baynes doesn't even know where the help is supposed to come from much less if or how he is supposed to cover for that if it's his rotation.

He is completely lost on offense and if he is not posting up or screening he just wanders around. He is not going to know the cuts or the plays even when he is on the ball.

He's a new toy; I get that and I always hope that we blow teams out so I can watch him some more but he is not remotely ready.

[TJastal]

Baynes doesn't have to be "good" right now. We could give him Blair's limited minutes because Blair simply isn't able to rebound or defend at an NBA level.
Maybe Baynes can't either, but it's worth a shot. What's there to lose?

But he doesn't know all the plays the yet! He would be just be all discombobulated he would just stand in the paint like a traffic cone he would! Kind of like .. uh... oh wait.. never mind..

[freetiago]

Baynes is 26
he has college/overseas/olympic experience
and he would be playing a dumbed down role in 5-10 minutes
or is it Blairs all world basketball IQ that allows him to get floor time


youre really overcomplicating Baynes role
he doesnt have to know where help comes from
he is the help
his role would be protecting the rim and he can surrender as much mid range shots as he wants just like Pop tells the starters to do
and him not being use to NBA players speed...
you think Blair and Bonner are
even if they are they cant do anything
and even more lol at Blair and good defender being in the same sentence
i believe it was 2 years ago when he was the worst rated starting center in the nba despite still having athleticism which he has none of now

and everyone is saying he cant play in the nba because he just cant
they have no actual evidence to say he cant since he hasnt gotten any minute

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is no point in arguing with willful ignorance I guess.

[TJastal]

Baynes is 26
he has college/overseas/olympic experience
and he would be playing a dumbed down role in 5-10 minutes
or is it Blairs all world basketball IQ that allows him to get floor time


youre really overcomplicating Baynes role
he doesnt have to know where help comes from
he is the help
his role would be protecting the rim and he can surrender as much mid range shots as he wants just like Pop tells the starters to do
and him not being use to NBA players speed...
you think Blair and Bonner are
even if they are they cant do anything
and even more lol at Blair and good defender being in the same sentence
i believe it was 2 years ago when he was the worst rated starting center in the nba despite still having athleticism which he has none of now

LOL this. For criminy sakes these douche nuggets are acting like he would be paralyzed out on the court and forget how to play basketball. :lol k

[freetiago]

whats hilarious is that most of you are Cojo supporters
yet he has no nba experience
hes young and has no college experience or overseas experience
Baynes played in a much superior league and also has knowledge of the Spurs system since hes been coached by the Spurs assistant coach all summer long
but Cojo is ready to take the backup PG role over the corporate knowledge players Neal and Mills whove been here 2-years

[Capt Bringdown]

Blair is actually a pretty good pnr defender. He falls asleep on his rotations though.

Blair's limitations go beyond mental mistakes. There's not too many 6'5" "bigs" who are successful in the NBA. Hopefully our bigs play well enough, rebound and defend as they're supposed to & don't get in foul trouble so that Blair never sees the floor.
He's a disaster in the PO..."But, but, this year it'll be different."

[ChumpDumper]

LOL this. For criminy sakes these douche nuggets are acting like he would be paralyzed out on the court and forget how to play basketball. :lol kYay! More straw!


whats hilarious is that most of you are Cojo supporters
yet he has no nba experience
hes young and has no college experience or overseas experience
Baynes played in a much superior league and also has knowledge of the Spurs system since hes been coached by the Spurs assistant coach all summer long
but Cojo is ready to take the backup PG role over the corporate knowledge players Neal and Mills whove been here 2-yearsWell, I'm sure you're prepared to ignore what Joseph has been doing the past two seasons, so why bother?

[freetiago]

Joseph hasnt done anything the past 2 seasons
most people here doubted if he could even be an nba player after his first season
this season he just played in the d-league til Parker was injured
people want Baynes to play for the same reasons all the Cojo supporters wanted him to play over Neal/Mills

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not sure exactly what this has to do with his ability to defend the pnr.

You guys act like Baynes has been some dominating force who is gobbling up rebounds and dunking over everyone. Why do you guys think his +/- and rebounding #'s are terrible?

There's only going to be 25 or so backup minutes to go around between the 4 and 5. I imagine Diaw and smallball are going to get them in the playoffs.

Parker/Cojo/Green/Manu/Neal/Leonard/Jack/Dplitter/Diaw/Duncan. Thats a 10 man rotation which is deep for the playoffs as it is. If you want to quibble about foul trouble minutes I guess but I don't want Baynes covering a Lee/Curry pnr or or wandering around against an already stifling Memphis defense.

[ChumpDumper]

Joseph hasnt done anything the past 2 seasonsCalled it.

most people here doubted if he could even be an nba player after his first seasonWere you one of those people?

this season he just played in the d-league til Parker was injured
people want Baynes to play for the same reasons all the Cojo supporters wanted him to play over Neal/MillsBecause Baynes can initiate the offense and take casre of he ball when he brings it up against pressure?

Wow.

[Strategic]

I don't understand why Blair is even in the "why doesn't Baynes get to play" argument. Any stiff that's been on the roster for three years and knows enough about the schemes would be getting the PT right now. I think the only thing that would have gotten Baynes more playing time this year is if he would have made an unbelievably great contibution to the team from the start. He did not! While I DO want him to be ahead of the Turd towers in the rotation this year I wouldn't bet a wooden nickel that he gets one minute of meaniful playing time until summer league.

[Strategic]

This thread is about Baynes and De Colo but all I see is chatter about Baynes. Nando does have some meaniful PT this year. Is everyone happy that he appears to have fallen down in the rotation?

[freetiago]

LOL at you comparing a point guard to a center
obviously he cant do that
but he has actual skills related to the position he does play such as rebounding and rim protection
neither of which the 2 turds in front of him can do
and Baynes would be playing 5 to 10 minutes at max vs the other teams bench players not their best starters
i wouldnt want Diaw/Blair lineup defending a Lee/Cury pick and roll either

Josephs first year stats
9 mpg
.314/.200/.647% for 2 pts and 1 assist a game
screams nba player doesnt it
or should i dig up bnsf god Timvp quotes doubting whether he could play in the nba to prove it

and there is 0 non garbage time evidence that Baynes cant rebound
in the one game he was an actual fixture in the rotation he had 9 rebounds in 18 minutes which is elite
and for all the Baynes haters
explain why you favor Blair and Bonner over him
this should be a good laugh

[EricB]

Fuzzylumpkins with the well reasoned argument . Met as usual with Spurstalk monkeys flinging poo.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL at you comparing a point guard to a centerIt was your argument.

Not my fault it sucked.

[ChumpDumper]

Josephs first year stats
9 mpg
.314/.200/.647% for 2 pts and 1 assist a game
screams nba player doesnt itUm, yeah. That's why he wasn't considered for the rotation last season.

I guess you'll ignore that as well.

[RD2191]

I like Baynes because he isn't a pussy.

[freetiago]

so his marvelous first year play is why he was considered for the rotation this year
over experienced nba players mills and neal
not even attempting to address the rest of the post..

[ChumpDumper]

so his marvelous first year play is why he was considered for the rotation this yearNo. That was the entire point. You're an idiot.

The rest is just babbling and straw men.

[chapnis]

Dammit, Pop is holding Baynes back, if he gave him the minutes he deserved he would be an all-star.

[Sean Cagney]

Baynes needs real NBA time. Im tired of Diaw, Bonner, Blair bs.

Diaw is alright, I am sick of the last two and have been for years (Most of us are). Why are they still on our team damnit lol.

[Brunodf]

Dammit, Pop is holding Baynes back, if he gave him the minutes he deserved he would be an all-star.
Can't be worse than Bonner/Blair tbh

[TheGoldStandard]

Baynes will get his shot next season, Pop is a creature of habit, he'll continue to go with what he has and what he knows.

[jimbo]

Any of the "Banes doesn't know the system" guys want to show where he's out of place, etc on a screenshot or something. (like where he is, could draw an arrow to where he should be and what he did instead) Or a video clip. Ask for the specific game and I'll get it to you.

The system answer has always sounded bunk to me, but I just want to see some evidence before I accept it.

[spurraider21]

Baynes doesn't have to be "good" right now. We could give him Blair's limited minutes because Blair simply isn't able to rebound or defend at an NBA level.
Maybe Baynes can't either, but it's worth a shot. What's there to lose?

While I'm not pushing for Baynes to get rotation minutes, is there really anything Blair does particularly better than Baynes?

[chapnis]

While I'm not pushing for Baynes to get rotation minutes, is there really anything Blair does particularly better than Baynes?
eat

[Sean Cagney]

Can't be worse than Bonner/Blair tbh

LOL GOOD LORD those guys sucks. I wish they both would be gone.

[TheyCallMePro]

I was super excited when the Spurs signed Baynes. I watched every game Australia played in the Olympics because of Patty Mills---and Baynes was an absolute beast on the boards and dunking all over the place. I couldn't believe he wasn't on an NBA roster. When the Spurs signed him I was ecstatic. But so far, he really hasn't shown much. He looks uncomfortable on the court running the offense. He just needs time, but he's so physically imposing, that his potential is just amazing. One day he's going to be throwing down dunks and stuffing the hell out of people like he was with the Australian National team. But right now...he really does need some time in the D-league running and learning the spurs offense.

[Pop]

I was super excited when the Spurs signed Baynes. I watched every game Australia played in the Olympics because of Patty Mills---and Baynes was an absolute beast on the boards and dunking all over the place. I couldn't believe he wasn't on an NBA roster. When the Spurs signed him I was ecstatic. But so far, he really hasn't shown much. He looks uncomfortable on the court running the offense. He just needs time, but he's so physically imposing, that his potential is just amazing. One day he's going to be throwing down dunks and stuffing the hell out of people like he was with the Australian National team. But right now...he really does need some time in the D-league running and learning the spurs offense.

Like it has been said multiple times, the scrub league is not that great to learn the system, it's good for conditioning more than anything.

[ChumpDumper]

Any of the "Banes doesn't know the system" guys want to show where he's out of place, etc on a screenshot or something. (like where he is, could draw an arrow to where he should be and what he did instead) Or a video clip. Ask for the specific game and I'll get it to you.

The system answer has always sounded bunk to me, but I just want to see some evidence before I accept it.The first step in pimping a player is spelling his name correctly.

[ChumpDumper]

Like it has been said multiple times, the scrub league is not that great to learn the system, it's good for conditioning more than anything.Different positions, etc., but Cory Joseph would probably disagree.

[Darkwaters]

I have virtually no expectations for Baynes this season. His role is to come in, get comfortable, acclimate and learn the system. If he gets scattered minutes with the big club from time to time all the better.

Next season though, after half a year with the team and a full training camp, my expectations of him are going to be considerable. I'm very hopeful that he'll round out the regular bigman rotation of Duncan/Splitter/Diaw/Baynes.

[Nero5]

Baynes cannot be used in every game, but he clearly has value in an area that SA are chronically weak...offensive boards.

[TJastal]

Different positions, etc., but Cory Joseph would probably disagree.
Different positions being the key words of your hilarious non-sequitur. :lol

Baynes even remarked about his urgent send down being nothing more than a conditioning run. Obviously it paid dividends; the increased stamina has allowed him to sit for longer periods of time while still maintaining correct posture.

[TJastal]

The first step in pimping a player is spelling his name correctly.

Nowhere in his post did he pimp anything; simply asking for proof of what is being flouted as facts. As far as pimping goes

perhaps you're having flashbacks to the time you were concieved in a back alley of that dank strip mall your momma lived next to?

[dbestpro]

The argument to let Baynes play is not about how good Baynes is right now but rather how bad Blair and Bonner are and in particular on defense.

Baynes can just stand like the statue of liberty and provides better defense than those two combined. Bonner just does not have the skill and Blair either can't physically do it or he refuses to play as hard as he needs to on a consistent basis.

[DapDaGenius]

Baynes doesn't have to be "good" right now. We could give him Blair's limited minutes because Blair simply isn't able to rebound or defend at an NBA level.
Maybe Baynes can't either, but it's worth a shot. What's there to lose?

I think Baynes will be able to rebound and defend at an NBA level. Just like with Kawhi, it's a matter of him getting the minutes he needs to adjust.

Also, does anyone know when we are able to get rid of Bonner?

[exstatic]

Baynes cannot be used in every game, but he clearly has value in an area that SA are chronically weak...offensive boards.

How long have you even been a fan? Ignoring the offensive boards to get back on defense and prevent easy baskets is part and parcel of their entire system. They usually send one guy, sometimes two if Tim and Tiago are both in the game. Two on five doesn't come out well for us often.

[Strategic]

Turning this thread into a Baynes vs. Blair argument may only leave one of the following two scenerios after this season:


1. If the Spurs win it all with Dejuan getting some PT then he and the club might come to an agreement for him to stay for the cheap.
(never underestimate the power of the trophy)

2. If the Spurs do not win it all this year then the natives will forever sling this 'Baynes should have played' shit.
(think Splitter two years ago and the Scola river of tears...................... forever)


I'm trying to think which scenerio will be less painful.

[Russ]

Baynes seems somewhat similar to two players -- Tyson Chandler and Ian Mahinmi. That's a huge range.

[Supreme_Being]

Blair is actually a pretty good pnr defender. He falls asleep on his rotations though.

Baynes doesn't know the angles to take, the spacing to zone it up, nor is he used to the speed on the NBA players on pnr. You can see it when he is playing 3rd string guys. NBA teams run a TON of pnr and you can tell he doesn't know how to defend it. You think Blair is bad on rotations? Baynes doesn't even know where the help is supposed to come from much less if or how he is supposed to cover for that if it's his rotation.

He is completely lost on offense and if he is not posting up or screening he just wanders around. He is not going to know the cuts or the plays even when he is on the ball.

He's a new toy; I get that and I always hope that we blow teams out so I can watch him some more but he is not remotely ready.

You do realise baynes played under Brett brown who uses the same system as the the spurs, right?

[Budkin]

Watched the Toros game last night. Fucking refs were indeed awful.

[ChumpDumper]

Different positions being the key words of your hilarious non-sequitur. :lol

Baynes even remarked about his urgent send down being nothing more than a conditioning run. Obviously it paid dividends; the increased stamina has allowed him to sit for longer periods of time while still maintaining correct posture.It was pretty stupid of him to get ejected, I agree.


Nowhere in his post did he pimp anything; simply asking for proof of what is being flouted as facts. As far as pimping goes

perhaps you're having flashbacks to the time you were concieved in a back alley of that dank strip mall your momma lived next to?The first step in trying to get back at me for recalling your idiotic take on Splitter is to remember i before e except after c.

[LarryDavid]

Turning this thread into a Baynes vs. Blair argument may only leave one of the following two scenerios after this season:


1. If the Spurs win it all with Dejuan getting some PT then he and the club might come to an agreement for him to stay for the cheap.
(never underestimate the power of the trophy)

2. If the Spurs do not win it all this year then the natives will forever sling this 'Baynes should have played' shit.
(think Splitter two years ago and the Scola river of tears...................... forever)


I'm trying to think which scenerio will be less painful.

I'll take scenario one. Any scenario involving winning the :lobt2: is better than the alternative.

[TJastal]

The first step in trying to get back at me for recalling your idiotic take on Splitter is to remember i before e except after c.

Ahhh right... when all else fails and lame arguments are failing to hit the mark its time for the grammar cop routine. Shame though you weren't there to impart all that wisdom to mum back in the day so she could fill out a job application correctly. Course then you might not have existed. Moot point, really.

[exstatic]

You do realise baynes played under Brett brown who uses the same system as the the spurs, right?

Actually, the plays are the same, but they are only a subset of the complete Spurs offense. Anyone remember when we had to "dumb down" the offense for Jefferson? That didn't work out so well.

[Seventyniner]

How long have you even been a fan? Ignoring the offensive boards to get back on defense and prevent easy baskets is part and parcel of their entire system. They usually send one guy, sometimes two if Tim and Tiago are both in the game. Two on five doesn't come out well for us often.

Another false premise to be debunked. Here we go...

The Spurs are 21st in the league in both opponents' fast break points per game and opponents' fast break efficiency. The Pacers are first in both.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-points-per-game
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-efficiency
The catch? The Spurs are last in offensive rebounding at 20.3%, while the Pacers are 5th at 30.1%. Obviously it is possible to both crash the offensive glass and have a good fastbreak defense like Indiana. Or you could be horrendous at offensive rebounding and still below average on fastbreak defense like the Spurs.

In fact, let's take this a step further. I ran a linear regression of opponents' fastbreak efficiency vs. own offensive rebounding percentage. I got:
Opponents' fastbreak efficiency = 0.3215*own ORB% + 1.6087 with an R^2 value of 0.003. There is basically no correlation between opponents' fastbreak efficiency and own ORB%.

I did the same for opponents' fastbreak points per game vs. own ORB%.
Opponents' fastbreak PPG = -0.8392*own ORB% + 13.436 with an R^2 value of 0.0004. The negative correlation is what many assume, but again since the value is so close to zero, there is no correlation between opponents' fastbreak PPG and own ORB%.

Face it: the Spurs are just not a good offensive rebounding team, and unless I hear it from someone trustworthy, I would have to assume that it isn't all by design and is just plain a weakness of the team. Could the Spurs' opponent fastbreak numbers get worse if the Spurs started going harder after offensive rebounds? Sure, but the league-wide numbers don't suggest it.

[ChumpDumper]

Ahhh right... when all else fails and lame arguments are failing to hit the mark its time for the grammar cop routine. Shame though you weren't there to impart all that wisdom to mum back in the day so she could fill out a job application correctly. Course then you might not have existed. Moot point, really.So saying my mom was a prostitute is a basketball argument?

lol hypocrite

Sorry your takes are so historically bad that they bite you in the ass three years on.

[ChumpDumper]

unless I hear it from someone trustworthy, I would have to assume that it isn't all by designSeriously?

Have you never watched a Spurs game with a former Spurs player commentating?

[TJastal]

Another false premise to be debunked. Here we go...

The Spurs are 21st in the league in both opponents' fast break points per game and opponents' fast break efficiency. The Pacers are first in both.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-points-per-game
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-efficiency
The catch? The Spurs are last in offensive rebounding at 20.3%, while the Pacers are 5th at 30.1%. Obviously it is possible to both crash the offensive glass and have a good fastbreak defense like Indiana. Or you could be horrendous at offensive rebounding and still below average on fastbreak defense like the Spurs.

In fact, let's take this a step further. I ran a linear regression of opponents' fastbreak efficiency vs. own offensive rebounding percentage. I got:
Opponents' fastbreak efficiency = 0.3215*own ORB% + 1.6087 with an R^2 value of 0.003. There is basically no correlation between opponents' fastbreak efficiency and own ORB%.

I did the same for opponents' fastbreak points per game vs. own ORB%.
Opponents' fastbreak PPG = -0.8392*own ORB% + 13.436 with an R^2 value of 0.0004. The negative correlation is what many assume, but again since the value is so close to zero, there is no correlation between opponents' fastbreak PPG and own ORB%.

Face it: the Spurs are just not a good offensive rebounding team, and unless I hear it from someone trustworthy, I would have to assume that it isn't all by design and is just plain a weakness of the team. Could the Spurs' opponent fastbreak numbers get worse if the Spurs started going harder after offensive rebounds? Sure, but the league-wide numbers don't suggest it.

Yet another misused crackpot theory debunked. Popsuckers are running out of holy grails to cling to.

[TJastal]

Actually, the plays are the same, but they are only a subset of the complete Spurs offense. Anyone remember when we had to "dumb down" the offense for Jefferson? That didn't work out so well.

Funny how you whine about Dick's shortcomings yet were perfectly content in acquiring his equal in namesake as well as mental fortitude (at the expense of a highly cerebral player to boot).

[ace3g]

Nando recalled:

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/130316_spurs_recall_nando_decolo

[Seventyniner]

Seriously?

Have you never watched a Spurs game with a former Spurs player commentating?

Sorry, I tend to tune out Sean Elliott, as much as I liked him as a player.

Past Spurs teams haven't been nearly this bad at ORB% (they've been in the 24-27 range leaguewide for a while, but in absolute numbers never nearly as bad as this year's 20.3%), so the dropoff (yes, it is a big one) can't be explained only by Pop's orders unless Pop has started telling his players to weight their efforts towards transition defense and away from offensive rebounds even more than in the past.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry, I tend to tune out Sean Elliott, as much as I liked him as a player.Can't help you then.

I can certainly go with the theory that the players just suck at offensive rebounding now, but a few minutes of Baynes isn't really going to change that.

[Bruno]

Nando recalled:

http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/130316_spurs_recall_nando_decolo

Baynes not recalled is half a surprise. With only Parker injured, another player has to be inactive. Baynes could have been called back but he would have been in a suit. On a more long term basis, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pop switching Baynes and De Colo for the 13th active roster spot.

[ChumpDumper]

Baynes not recalled is half a surprise. With only Parker injured, another player has to be inactive. Baynes could have been called back but he would have been in a suit.There's another game in Austin tonight against a couple of good bigs. If Baynes can stay in the game, it shouldn't be a complete waste of time. If he travels with the team next week, we'll know it's probably a longer term assignment.

[Pasta Batman]

Boris Diaw played in the NBA for eight seasons.

Also familiar with Spurs system from Parker + National Team

[TheGoldStandard]

Baynes won't be active for the playoffs, don't you know that Pop is resting Bonner to get him geared up for the playoffs. Come playoff time Pop is going to release the Red Rocket.

[Das Texan]

Baynes not recalled is half a surprise. With only Parker injured, another player has to be inactive. Baynes could have been called back but he would have been in a suit. On a more long term basis, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pop switching Baynes and De Colo for the 13th active roster spot.

Pop is punishing him for getting thrown out.

[Seventyniner]

Can't help you then.

I can certainly go with the theory that the players just suck at offensive rebounding now, but a few minutes of Baynes isn't really going to change that.

Completely agreed about Baynes.

Though I'm struggling to explain the dropoff even from last season to this one, where the personnel changes have been minimal. 25.1% to 20.3% is a huge decrease. Were Blair and HWSNBN that good at offensive rebounding?

[jimbo]

The first step in pimping a player is spelling his name correctly.

Worthwhile basketball analysis bro A++

If you can't do what I asked, why are you even posting about this?

[monkeypunk]

Completely agreed about Baynes.

Though I'm struggling to explain the dropoff even from last season to this one, where the personnel changes have been minimal. 25.1% to 20.3% is a huge decrease. Were Blair and HWSNBN that good at offensive rebounding?

I see it as a result of a re-dedication on defense this year. Less OReb if you are running back on D.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You do realise baynes played under Brett brown who uses the same system as the the spurs, right?

You realize they don't play the same system right? They run some of the same plays and maybe some general rotation principles but you can tell from watching Baynes miss rotations and wander around on offense that it's not the same.

Baynes doesn't know how to space pnr. If the dribbler slips the screen he tends to overplay the playside and he ends up giving dunks and/or layups. On defense he is so concerned about not getting a defensive 2 seconds call or trying to figure out who is doing what that he is completely out of position for rebounds.

Don't get me wrong I love him as a prospect but if you watch him play agaisnt scrub and dubs and struggle I don't see how you can conclude he should be the 3rd or 4th big right now.

[Nero5]

PnR spacing?? lol! Spurs defence of the high NPR and mid NPR is terrible! Has been all season. A combination of slow feet and lack of height has lead to the bigs sagging attrociously, leaving the guard to fight over or around the screen. Against a good outside shooting team they have been burned massively. Against a team with shooting and driving guards they are going to be pummelled in a series.

[ChumpDumper]

Completely agreed about Baynes.

Though I'm struggling to explain the dropoff even from last season to this one, where the personnel changes have been minimal. 25.1% to 20.3% is a huge decrease. Were Blair and HWSNBN that good at offensive rebounding?Could be a by-product of Splitter's being in the starting lineup for one thing.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

PnR spacing?? lol! Spurs defence of the high NPR and mid NPR is terrible! Has been all season. A combination of slow feet and lack of height has lead to the bigs sagging attrociously, leaving the guard to fight over or around the screen. Against a good outside shooting team they have been burned massively. Against a team with shooting and driving guards they are going to be pummelled in a series.

Duncan has to cheat. Bonner does too for that matter. Diaw and Splitter don't. It all depends. Splitter is excellent at zoning the play and allowing the guard to go over the screen without having to sell out of foul. Diaw has the quickness to flash a double when he needs to and still get back to keep guards honest. And you must not be paying attention. Diaw and Splitter consistently ride the ballhandlers away from the basketball and down the baseline. The guard bumps the roller, big rotates from the weakside etc. They do that all the time.

Duncan is better than he was a couple years ago too. I thought he was cooked after the Suns trounced us. Speaks to his dedication to get back to where he is. Spurs do a good job scheming so that he stays on the weakside where his help defense is the best in the NBA now.

And you go over the screen or double with the big to let the guard back in the play against good outside shooting teams. They mix their calls a lot. They switch a lot more now for example. I think Pop got a bit gun shy after watching Duncan get mangled by Grant Hill. He still has reservations as evidence by Duncan getting yanked on the last shot vs Dallas but they switch at times every game now.

Our improved pnr defense is a huge part of our defensive resurgence. You cannot be a top defensive team with out top pnr defense in the association. are efficieny stats speak for themselves.

[Chinook]

Another false premise to be debunked. Here we go...

The Spurs are 21st in the league in both opponents' fast break points per game and opponents' fast break efficiency. The Pacers are first in both.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-points-per-game
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-efficiency
The catch? The Spurs are last in offensive rebounding at 20.3%, while the Pacers are 5th at 30.1%. Obviously it is possible to both crash the offensive glass and have a good fastbreak defense like Indiana. Or you could be horrendous at offensive rebounding and still below average on fastbreak defense like the Spurs.

In fact, let's take this a step further. I ran a linear regression of opponents' fastbreak efficiency vs. own offensive rebounding percentage. I got:
Opponents' fastbreak efficiency = 0.3215*own ORB% + 1.6087 with an R^2 value of 0.003. There is basically no correlation between opponents' fastbreak efficiency and own ORB%.

I did the same for opponents' fastbreak points per game vs. own ORB%.
Opponents' fastbreak PPG = -0.8392*own ORB% + 13.436 with an R^2 value of 0.0004. The negative correlation is what many assume, but again since the value is so close to zero, there is no correlation between opponents' fastbreak PPG and own ORB%.

Face it: the Spurs are just not a good offensive rebounding team, and unless I hear it from someone trustworthy, I would have to assume that it isn't all by design and is just plain a weakness of the team. Could the Spurs' opponent fastbreak numbers get worse if the Spurs started going harder after offensive rebounds? Sure, but the league-wide numbers don't suggest it.

Seventyniner showing no regard for human life with this post. :lol

I thought the Spurs were better at defending fastbreaks, though. Thanks for the stats.

[jestersmash]

Another false premise to be debunked. Here we go...

The Spurs are 21st in the league in both opponents' fast break points per game and opponents' fast break efficiency. The Pacers are first in both.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-points-per-game
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-efficiency
The catch? The Spurs are last in offensive rebounding at 20.3%, while the Pacers are 5th at 30.1%. Obviously it is possible to both crash the offensive glass and have a good fastbreak defense like Indiana. Or you could be horrendous at offensive rebounding and still below average on fastbreak defense like the Spurs.

In fact, let's take this a step further. I ran a linear regression of opponents' fastbreak efficiency vs. own offensive rebounding percentage. I got:
Opponents' fastbreak efficiency = 0.3215*own ORB% + 1.6087 with an R^2 value of 0.003. There is basically no correlation between opponents' fastbreak efficiency and own ORB%.

I did the same for opponents' fastbreak points per game vs. own ORB%.
Opponents' fastbreak PPG = -0.8392*own ORB% + 13.436 with an R^2 value of 0.0004. The negative correlation is what many assume, but again since the value is so close to zero, there is no correlation between opponents' fastbreak PPG and own ORB%.

Face it: the Spurs are just not a good offensive rebounding team, and unless I hear it from someone trustworthy, I would have to assume that it isn't all by design and is just plain a weakness of the team. Could the Spurs' opponent fastbreak numbers get worse if the Spurs started going harder after offensive rebounds? Sure, but the league-wide numbers don't suggest it.

This is a very good post.

[Supreme_Being]

Actually, the plays are the same, but they are only a subset of the complete Spurs offense. Anyone remember when we had to "dumb down" the offense for Jefferson? That didn't work out so well.

The difference is dick jeff started for the spurs with the aspiration of being an athletic wing, spot up 3s, and a lock down defensive specialist oth the general consensus (I think) just wants to see a glimpse of mr baynes here playing spot minutes or perhaps on garbage time (for now) instead of bonner/blair aka the turd towers. Not much similarity IMO

[Supreme_Being]

You realize they don't play the same system right? They run some of the same plays and maybe some general rotation principles but you can tell from watching Baynes miss rotations and wander around on offense that it's not the same.

Baynes doesn't know how to space pnr. If the dribbler slips the screen he tends to overplay the playside and he ends up giving dunks and/or layups. On defense he is so concerned about not getting a defensive 2 seconds call or trying to figure out who is doing what that he is completely out of position for rebounds.

Don't get me wrong I love him as a prospect but if you watch him play agaisnt scrub and dubs and struggle I don't see how you can conclude he should be the 3rd or 4th big right now.


How hard can it be?

Just call up baynes and tell him, "bump the ball hander to the baseline and don't let the dude score."

There I fixed his pnr defence in less than 5 seconds.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How hard can it be?

Just call up baynes and tell him, "bump the ball hander to the baseline and don't let the dude score."

There I fixed his pnr defence in less than 5 seconds.

smh

I would like to think that you are trolling but I somehow doubt it. Nothing that I can say will keep you from oversimplifying to thing such as the above so be content to think that training NBA defense is that easy. Baynes is a hard worker, you can tell that just from his physique, so I am not overly worried about him going forward. I am just not going to delude myself into thinking that he is somewhere where he is not. I am certainly not going to do that because I dislike some other player.

[Nero5]

Duncan has to cheat. Bonner does too for that matter. Diaw and Splitter don't. It all depends. Splitter is excellent at zoning the play and allowing the guard to go over the screen without having to sell out of foul. Diaw has the quickness to flash a double when he needs to and still get back to keep guards honest. And you must not be paying attention. Diaw and Splitter consistently ride the ballhandlers away from the basketball and down the baseline. The guard bumps the roller, big rotates from the weakside etc. They do that all the time.

Duncan is better than he was a couple years ago too. I thought he was cooked after the Suns trounced us. Speaks to his dedication to get back to where he is. Spurs do a good job scheming so that he stays on the weakside where his help defense is the best in the NBA now.

And you go over the screen or double with the big to let the guard back in the play against good outside shooting teams. They mix their calls a lot. They switch a lot more now for example. I think Pop got a bit gun shy after watching Duncan get mangled by Grant Hill. He still has reservations as evidence by Duncan getting yanked on the last shot vs Dallas but they switch at times every game now.

Our improved pnr defense is a huge part of our defensive resurgence. You cannot be a top defensive team with out top pnr defense in the association. are efficieny stats speak for themselves.

'Has to cheat'...tosh and twaddle. Diaw has games where he either appears uninterested or lazy on the PnR and against a mobile big he and bonner are two I would focus on were I coaching the other side - they breakdown too easily, particularly on a second effort or switch on a fast shooting guard ala Lillard.

[benfti]

for anyone playing at home he had 15 and 11

[exstatic]

Another false premise to be debunked. Here we go...

The Spurs are 21st in the league in both opponents' fast break points per game and opponents' fast break efficiency. The Pacers are first in both.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-points-per-game
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-efficiency
The catch? The Spurs are last in offensive rebounding at 20.3%, while the Pacers are 5th at 30.1%. Obviously it is possible to both crash the offensive glass and have a good fastbreak defense like Indiana. Or you could be horrendous at offensive rebounding and still below average on fastbreak defense like the Spurs.

In fact, let's take this a step further. I ran a linear regression of opponents' fastbreak efficiency vs. own offensive rebounding percentage. I got:
Opponents' fastbreak efficiency = 0.3215*own ORB% + 1.6087 with an R^2 value of 0.003. There is basically no correlation between opponents' fastbreak efficiency and own ORB%.

I did the same for opponents' fastbreak points per game vs. own ORB%.
Opponents' fastbreak PPG = -0.8392*own ORB% + 13.436 with an R^2 value of 0.0004. The negative correlation is what many assume, but again since the value is so close to zero, there is no correlation between opponents' fastbreak PPG and own ORB%.

Face it: the Spurs are just not a good offensive rebounding team, and unless I hear it from someone trustworthy, I would have to assume that it isn't all by design and is just plain a weakness of the team. Could the Spurs' opponent fastbreak numbers get worse if the Spurs started going harder after offensive rebounds? Sure, but the league-wide numbers don't suggest it.

1) If it's a false premise, take it up with Pop. He;s stated it on multiple occasions.
2) If we're THAT bad on transition defense, imagine how awful we'd be if we crashed the glass en masse and gave teams MORE opportunities to run.

[Strategic]

I can see it now. Spurs start focusing more on offensive rebounds. What just happened? Wade just fed James for a reverse dunk for two more Heat fast break points. Manu just made a lay up and Baynes was there to put it in just in case he missed. On the inbound pass James throws to Wade for, you got it, another fast break dunk.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol tosh and twaddle

I was like wtf was that and then realized you guys are australian, my niggles.

[EricB]

:lol tosh and twaddle

I was like wtf was that and then realized you guys are australian, my niggles.


Its Manu Argentinans all over again. Except Baynes isn't close to being as good.

[racm]

What if the Spurs aren't a good offensive rebounding team because of how they conduct their offense? The bigs keep on setting screens while waiting for an opportunity to attack the basket, instead of having at least one guy anchored to the paint on every possession. The team also only shoots jumpers when wide open, which means less "Kobe assists", and as a rule a 3 point attempt is better than a one dribble pullup.

[Nero5]

Not australian vernacular by any stretch, but I cannot see why a reply has to be abusive like so many.
re the value of boards...what value did rod man have to the bulls et al. A serious offensive rebounding team slows the oppositions transition, they need to battle for control that is otherwise a given. Over the course of a game it tires the opposition and decreases offensive %, it also frustrates, irritates and alters the flow of the game. It has more than a double stat value. It is also particularly valuable when you are not having a good shooting night.

[ChumpDumper]

Not australian vernacular by any stretch, but I cannot see why a reply has to be abusive like so many.
re the value of boards...what value did rod man have to the bulls et al. A serious offensive rebounding team slows the oppositions transition, they need to battle for control that is otherwise a given. Over the course of a game it tires the opposition and decreases offensive %, it also frustrates, irritates and alters the flow of the game. It has more than a double stat value. It is also particularly valuable when you are not having a good shooting night.What value did "rod man" have when he played for the Spurs?

[benfti]

Nero has a very valid point, bigs crashing the offensive boards does not cause fast breaks in transition, in our offence its the wings sitting in the corners that does that. Our bigs could hit the offensive glass if our guards and wings were willing to go into full court defense.

[TJastal]

My two cents on this matter is the spurs could really use a few offensive caroms every now and then. To this end Baynes fills a role nicely. Letting 1 or 2 guys in each lineup (starters & bench) simply focus on snatching up offensive caroms while the other 4 adhere to the spurs "philosophy" (sic) would have a net positive effect.

In this scenario, I see Baynes being very useful in the 2nd unit as the "board crasher". Leonard likewise could have this assignment in the starting unit. Or really any unit these two are in. This "philosophy" of Pop's puts the spurs at a disadvatage IMO and fails to properly utilize individual strengths.

[Nero5]

What value did "rod man" have when he played for the Spurs?
iPad's helpful edit. Rodman is an interesting point in time. He was clearly a troubled personality and for a moment in time with the Bulls he was where he needed to be...at other times less so, particularly off the court. Team cohesion is paramount in a season, the current changes are difficult.
Having a philosopy of not chasing O boards is fine when you shoot 50% from the 3pt line and 50% everywhere else ...not when you shoot 35% everywhere...and look at the losses and close game shooting % against the opposition and then the loss games and O boards vs opposition.

[TJastal]

What value did "rod man" have when he played for the Spurs?

Better question: What value does a chumpdumper post have to this forum? I'm not sure numbers that small can be quantified properly.

:lol :rollin

[ChumpDumper]

Better question: What value does a chumpdumper post have to this forum? I'm not sure numbers that small can be quantified properly.

:lol :rollinWe all know exactly what value your YouTube scouting reports of Splitter and Leonard brought to the forum, along with your "poodle" trade ideas.

[Brazil]

Another false premise to be debunked. Here we go...

The Spurs are 21st in the league in both opponents' fast break points per game and opponents' fast break efficiency. The Pacers are first in both.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-points-per-game
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-fastbreak-efficiency
The catch? The Spurs are last in offensive rebounding at 20.3%, while the Pacers are 5th at 30.1%. Obviously it is possible to both crash the offensive glass and have a good fastbreak defense like Indiana. Or you could be horrendous at offensive rebounding and still below average on fastbreak defense like the Spurs.

In fact, let's take this a step further. I ran a linear regression of opponents' fastbreak efficiency vs. own offensive rebounding percentage. I got:
Opponents' fastbreak efficiency = 0.3215*own ORB% + 1.6087 with an R^2 value of 0.003. There is basically no correlation between opponents' fastbreak efficiency and own ORB%.

I did the same for opponents' fastbreak points per game vs. own ORB%.
Opponents' fastbreak PPG = -0.8392*own ORB% + 13.436 with an R^2 value of 0.0004. The negative correlation is what many assume, but again since the value is so close to zero, there is no correlation between opponents' fastbreak PPG and own ORB%.

Face it: the Spurs are just not a good offensive rebounding team, and unless I hear it from someone trustworthy, I would have to assume that it isn't all by design and is just plain a weakness of the team. Could the Spurs' opponent fastbreak numbers get worse if the Spurs started going harder after offensive rebounds? Sure, but the league-wide numbers don't suggest it.

wow that's a great counter argument against what I thought to be something not really arguable tbh.
it doesn't prevent us from thinking that Pop ask his guys to come back quick and not chasing O reb maybe also to preserve energy on the other side of the ball but that's an interesting analysis

[Brazil]

Seventyniner is on a roll lately ! :tu

[therealtruth]

I think it's hard to make a one size fits all decision about offensive rebounding. It should depend on the opponent and how well you are shooting. Sometimes you need the extra chances.

[Nero5]

reverse the question: find a current team that is above average on the offensive boards but below average on W/L or even out of playoff contention.

[look_at_g_shred]

Baynes recalled...

[ChumpDumper]

Makes sense. The Spurs actually have time to practice and the Toros are going on a road trip for a game Thursday. Might be some more yo-yoing between the teams in the coming week for the last multigame home stand in Austin.

[benfti]

Makes sense. The Spurs actually have time to practice and the Toros are going on a road trip for a game Thursday. Might be some more yo-yoing between the teams in the coming week for the last multigame home stand in Austin.

Could also mean someone is going to rest against Golden State tomorrow.

[ChumpDumper]

Could also mean someone is going to rest against Golden State tomorrow.Maybe, but after all that rest it seems unlikely if all the bigs are healthy.

[benfti]

Maybe, but after all that rest it seems unlikely if all the bigs are healthy.

why would they recall him to have him there to sit in a suit when he could stay an extra day with Austin and get a game on Thursday?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

why would they recall him to have him there to sit in a suit when he could stay an extra day with Austin and get a game on Thursday?

Because they want him to practice with the team? It's not like they cannot just send him back down again.

[ChumpDumper]

why would they recall him to have him there to sit in a suit when he could stay an extra day with Austin and get a game on Thursday?Because the Spurs are actually practicing. I'm assuming today or tomorrow is a travel day for the Toros. If they are really micromanaging his opportunities to practice with the Spurs and play with the Toros, we could see his being sent up for the game Thursday since the Spurs will likely not have a heavy practice if any. Then he could stay with the Toros through Sunday's game and be recalled for the likely practice next week at this time.

Or he could just be back for good. Who knows?

[benfti]

were the Toros last couple of games in Austin?

[ChumpDumper]

Yes.

If you're really interested....

http://www.nba.com/dleague/austin/schedule/

[benfti]

I think there is some merrit to the idea that now would be a good time to give him a bit more of a run to see what he has. Blair and Bonner have been reduced to spot minutes, and I dont think (or hope) either will be around next season. Now would be a good stretch to see what Baynes has to offer, im not saying wack him in as first big off the bench but giving him 8-10 minutes a game over the next few would be a good way to get a better idea if he is going to offer us anything at all in the playoffs, and also to see how much of the system he has learnt.

[exstatic]

I think there is some merrit to the idea that now would be a good time to give him a bit more of a run to see what he has. Blair and Bonner have been reduced to spot minutes, and I dont think (or hope) either will be around next season. Now would be a good stretch to see what Baynes has to offer, im not saying wack him in as first big off the bench but giving him 8-10 minutes a game over the next few would be a good way to get a better idea if he is going to offer us anything at all in the playoffs, and also to see how much of the system he has learnt.

I think Pop may have learned his lesson from last year's long rotation of like 10 guys. He has his bigs set, and it's Tim, Tiago, and Diaw. No one else is really playing unless it's to cover rest, it's a blowout, or an injury. The last 3-4 weeks of the season isn't time for next year's rotation tryouts.

[outmap]

I'd like to see a Bogut vs Baynes match, and Patty! :)

[chapnis]

I think there is some merrit to the idea that now would be a good time to give him a bit more of a run to see what he has. Blair and Bonner have been reduced to spot minutes, and I dont think (or hope) either will be around next season. Now would be a good stretch to see what Baynes has to offer, im not saying wack him in as first big off the bench but giving him 8-10 minutes a game over the next few would be a good way to get a better idea if he is going to offer us anything at all in the playoffs, and also to see how much of the system he has learnt.

Bonner will be back next season.

[AFBlue]

Looks like being sent down sparked something in Nando...critical minutes tonight, aggressive play, stellar D, and most important of all was limited mistakes.

[ace3g]

knocking down some 3s helped as well against the Cavs, have to remember that Chip is still working with him.

[ChumpDumper]

Baynes assigned again, will play at 3 today.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20130324/IWAAUS/gameinfo.html

[exstatic]

Bonner will be back next season.

Doubtful. They can cut $2.75M off both their cap and tax figures with the snap of a finger. Pop is curtailing Bonner's minutes a lot like he did Bowen's his last year here before a partially guaranteed year that SA never paid for.

Bonner will either be cut or flipped like Bowen for a like-sized contract from a team that needs to cut payroll.

[Trainwreck2100]

Doubtful. They can cut $2.75M off both their cap and tax figures with the snap of a finger. Pop is curtailing Bonner's minutes a lot like he did Bowen's his last year here before a partially guaranteed year that SA never paid for.

Bonner will either be cut or flipped like Bowen for a like-sized contract from a team that needs to cut payroll.

depends on what happens with Tiago

[Trainwreck2100]

Doubtful. They can cut $2.75M off both their cap and tax figures with the snap of a finger. Pop is curtailing Bonner's minutes a lot like he did Bowen's his last year here before a partially guaranteed year that SA never paid for.

Bonner will either be cut or flipped like Bowen for a like-sized contract from a team that needs to cut payroll.

depends on what happens with Tiago

[Mel_13]

depends on what happens with Tiago

They're going to have to make a decision on Bonner long before they know what will happen with Tiago. There are four possible outcomes with Bonner and I'd estimate that there's a better than 90% probability that one of the first two possibilities will occur:

1. Pay him the 1M buyout to go away.
2. Trade him before the June 29th deadline to use the buyout provision.

3. Keep him and pay him the 4M he is owed next season
4. Use the amnesty to create an additional 1M of cap space while paying him 4M to not play for them.

[Bruno]

They're going to have to make a decision on Bonner long before they know what will happen with Tiago. There are four possible outcomes with Bonner and I'd estimate that there's a better than 90% probability that one of the first two possibilities will occur:

1. Pay him the 1M buyout to go away.
2. Trade him before the June 29th deadline to use the buyout provision.

3. Keep him and pay him the 4M he is owed next season
4. Use the amnesty to create an additional 1M of cap space while paying him 4M to not play for them.

Well, there is a 5th possible outcome:
5. Spurs and Bonner agreed to push back his guaranteed deadline by a couple of weeks and then Spurs use the amnesty on him without having to pay his full salary.

[Mel_13]

Well, there is a 5th possible outcome:
5. Spurs and Bonner agreed to push back his guaranteed deadline by a couple of weeks and then Spurs use the amnesty on him without having to pay his full salary.

True, although that assumes that another team claims him. Even if claimed, it's not likely to be for much more than the minimum, and they're still looking at paying 3M to create 1M in cap space.

Even adding the 5th possibility, I'd still estimate a better than 90% probability that one of the first two possibilities will occur.

[Bruno]

True, although that assumes that another team claims him. Even if claimed, it's not likely to be for much more than the minimum, and they're still looking at paying 3M to create 1M in cap space.

Nope. Spurs would only have to paid the guaranteed part of his salary.

[Mel_13]

Nope. Spurs would only have to paid the guaranteed part of his salary.

As usual, you're right. I had the part about partially guaranteed contracts completely backwards.

So, in the scenario you describe, it becomes exceedingly unlikely that any team bids on Bonner, but the Spurs would only have to pay 1M to create 1M in cap space. So, the benefit to the Spurs is obvious.

It does, however, beg the question: What's in it for Bonner? He gets the 1M either way, but without the additional agreement he becomes a free agent on July 1st. With the agreement it could be two weeks later.

[Bruno]

It does, however, beg the question: What's in it for Bonner? He gets the 1M either way, but without the additional agreement he becomes a free agent on July 1st. With the agreement it could be two weeks later.

Bonner could do it as a nice gesture for Spurs after 7 years with them but, if it's not enough, Spurs could add incentives to it:
- They can change the schedule payment of his guaranteed money. Instead of getting the $1M over the time period defined in his contract, he would receive it as soon as he is waive.
- Spurs increased his guaranteed part. They can, for example, raise it from $1M to $1.2M.

If both sides are smart, they should work something out. It shouldn't be that hurtful for Bonner free agency stock: Spurs can let it know they will amnesty him before the July Moratorium and officially amnesty him on the first day after it.

[Mel_13]

Bonner could do it as a nice gesture for Spurs after 7 years with them but, if it's not enough, Spurs could have incentives to it:
- They can change the schedule payment of his guaranteed money. Instead of getting the $1M over the time period defined in his contract, he would receive it as soon as he is waive.
- Spurs increased his guaranteed part. They can, for example, raise it from $1M to $1.2M.

If both sides are smart, they should work something out. It shouldn't be that hurtful for Bonner free agency stock: Spurs can let it know they will amnesty him before the July Moratorium and officially amnesty him on the first day after it.

Ok, you've convinced me that a Bonner amnesty is a realistic possibility.

[Frenchie]

Bonner could do it as a nice gesture for Spurs after 7 years with them but, if it's not enough, Spurs could have incentives to it:
- They can change the schedule payment of his guaranteed money. Instead of getting the $1M over the time period defined in his contract, he would receive it as soon as he is waive.
- Spurs increased his guaranteed part. They can, for example, raise it from $1M to $1.2M.

If both sides are smart, they should work something out. It shouldn't be that hurtful for Bonner free agency stock: Spurs can let it know they will amnesty him before the July Moratorium and officially amnesty him on the first day after it.
Do you really think that Spurs will amnesty Bonner ? Pop loves him, even though he's playing less and less minutes since the beginning of the season. It's not very Spurs-esque to amnesty a guy like Bonner.

[Chinook]

Also, Bonner can extend his deadline to help facilitate a trade. McDyess did that a couple of years ago (but the Spurs just ended up waiving him). If they don't think they'll have significant cap room this summer, trading him may make more sense than freeing up a million dollars.

[chapnis]

Do you really think that Spurs will amnesty Bonner ? Pop loves him, even though he's playing less and less minutes since the beginning of the season. It's not very Spurs-esque to amnesty a guy like Bonner.

This IMO.

[Bruno]

Do you really think that Spurs will amnesty Bonner ? Pop loves him, even though he's playing less and less minutes since the beginning of the season. It's not very Spurs-esque to amnesty a guy like Bonner.

I don't see why it would be unSpurslike to amnesty Bonner.

Bonner will be either amnestied, waived or traded. He isn't worth the $3M it will cost to keep him.

[Pop]

Baynes is doing great in the scrub league game that's on right now.

Blocking shots, rebounding, scoring and even passing the ball...

[silverblackfan]

Baynes had a pretty good game, a double double and a few very nice put-back dunks. Plays hard, but does seem to be trying to adjust to the game speed and where he has to be at times. Seems comfortable with his mid-range shot or banging in the post.

[Frenchie]

I don't see why it would be unSpurslike to amnesty Bonner.

Bonner will be either amnestied, waived or traded. He isn't worth the $3M it will cost to keep him.
Spurs organization is often very kind with their historic players. Even though Bonner is not a very important player on the court, he seems to be appreciated by the team. I know Bruce Bowen has been traded for Richard Jefferson in the past but Bonner should be really loved here to be still on this team, even after many years of playoffs struggles.

If I understand what you're supposing, Bonner will be moved this summer because the Spurs will have cap room for the first time for a while. This could explain why he hasn't been waved in the past.

[jjktkk]

Spurs organization is often very kind with their historic players. Even though Bonner is not a very important player on the court, he seems to be appreciated by the team. I know Bruce Bowen has been traded for Richard Jefferson in the past but Bonner should be really loved here to be still on this team, even after many years of playoffs struggles.

If I understand what you're supposing, Bonner will be moved this summer because the Spurs will have cap room for the first time for a while. This could explain why he hasn't been waved in the past.

I think the writings on the wall, giving Bonner is mostly a spectator this year.

[LittleCriminal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3S-rSfDN-g

[Spur|n|Austin]

I'm going to the Toro's game tomorrow night, I wonder if Baynes will be recalled for the Spurs' game against the Nuggets?

[Pop]

Free Baynes already.

[Fireball]

wow ... that Baynes tip dunk was nasty

[boutons_deux]

Aron is as stone-faced as Kawhi, emotionless.

Tim, Tiago, and an integrated Aron as the playoff rotation front-court would be wonderful. I'm disappointed that Pop is so conservative, slow in integrating arrivals into the system. Kawhi was an exception. I really can't see how missing out on pre-season practices excludes a player for an entire season.

[LittleCriminal]

Don't forget Diaw.. Baynes Diaw off the bench would be sweet IMO.. But no, We have to watch Bonner and Blair stank it up.

Pop should just throw Baynes into the fire.

I understand Baynes makes mistakes, but they can be attributed to him being a rookie...
What's the Turd Towers fukin excuse?
Lack of Talent/Height?

[Fabbs]

I think the writings on the wall, giving Bonner is mostly a spectator this year.
Grief counselors are standing by.
A group of them will be available at a future PollyAnna Popper bash.
You're being brave about this now but let it out schtikkk.

[Budkin]

Baynes should in no way be seeing minutes for the Spurs this season because it would be unfair to players like Bonner and Blair that know the system.

[Strategic]

I don't see why it would be unSpurslike to amnesty Bonner.

Bonner will be either amnestied, waived or traded. He isn't worth the $3M it will cost to keep him.


I agree with you on this one but never underestimate the persuasiveness of a properly cooked T-bone steak on the BBQ grill. Added with a chilled bottle it's almost insurmountable.


:pop: may :yieldto :hungry:and :toast.

[capek]

Baynes should in no way be seeing minutes for the Spurs this season because it would be unfair to players like Bonner and Blair that know the system.

Whatever the reasoning behind Pop not throwing Baynes in there at this point in the season, I fucking hate it. I assume at least part of it is that Pop feels like he would have to shrink down the playbook a certain amount to accommodate Baynes' lack of familiarity, and he feels like what would be lost with that sacrifice would be greater than any benefit Baynes' height and rebounding would bring. Of course, from Spurfan's perspective, the quality of play drops off so precipitously when Turd Towers are on the court that it feels crazy not to be working Baynes in at this point. His size alone seems to change the dynamic when he's on the court, helping with rebounding and decreasing the ease with which other teams drive to the basket.

I admit it's naive as hell, but until the playoffs start with Baynes nowhere in sight, I'm holding out the hope that this is a CIA Pop move, that he's keeping Baynes as a secret weapon he'll unleash just before the playoffs, as part of the backup big rotation. Even just 10 minutes a game could really help shore up the defense and rebounding when Timmy and Tiago aren't on the court. Seems unlikely but In Pop We Trust. :(

[boutons_deux]

Baynes should in no way be seeing minutes for the Spurs this season because it would be unfair to players like Bonner and Blair that know the system.

which is "systematically" on the bench in the playoffs

[TheGoldStandard]

which is "systematically" on the bench in the playoffs

Sitting on the bench is hard, you have to scrunch in there with all those big guys and then you have to high five people when they get to the huddle.

[Budkin]

Whatever the reasoning behind Pop not throwing Baynes in there at this point in the season, I fucking hate it. I assume at least part of it is that Pop feels like he would have to shrink down the playbook a certain amount to accommodate Baynes' lack of familiarity, and he feels like what would be lost with that sacrifice would be greater than any benefit Baynes' height and rebounding would bring. Of course, from Spurfan's perspective, the quality of play drops off so precipitously when Turd Towers are on the court that it feels crazy not to be working Baynes in at this point. His size alone seems to change the dynamic when he's on the court, helping with rebounding and decreasing the ease with which other teams drive to the basket.

I admit it's naive as hell, but until the playoffs start with Baynes nowhere in sight, I'm holding out the hope that this is a CIA Pop move, that he's keeping Baynes as a secret weapon he'll unleash just before the playoffs, as part of the backup big rotation. Even just 10 minutes a game could really help shore up the defense and rebounding when Timmy and Tiago aren't on the court. Seems unlikely but In Pop We Trust. :(

Totally agree. Was being sarcastic. It's absurd. Same thing that happened to Splitter in 2011.

[jermaine]

Omfg im just seeing the highlights of the Toros. If he can do that against NBA's second unit, why is Blair an Bonner getting more burn this this monster energy machine? Dammmn thats one bad ass white boy. I mean shiiiiiit!!! Block's, putbacks, dunks. What else do Pop want from the guy. Am I missing something abiut this guy or what? You cant tell me this guy aint good enough to get burn in the NBA.

[boutons_deux]

Omfg im just seeing the highlights of the Toros. If he can do that against NBA's second unit, why is Blair an Bonner getting more burn this this monster energy machine? Dammmn thats one bad ass white boy. I mean shiiiiiit!!! Block's, putbacks, dunks. What else do Pop want from the guy. Am I missing something abiut this guy or what? You cant tell me this guy aint good enough to get burn in the NBA.

what else?

good rotations in team defense.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Wow, they need to just throw Baynes out there some more and see what he can do, we already know what Bonner Blair will give us

[jermaine]

Wow, they need to just throw Baynes out there some more and see what he can do, we already know what Bonner Blair will give us
That aint much. Watch us get out rebounded tonight with feather weigjt ass Bonner an short ass Blair.

[emanueldavidginobili]

That aint much. Watch us get out rebounded tonight with feather weigjt ass Bonner an short ass Blair.

Yeah I don't get it and Blair and Bonner both will be gone either next year or very soon

[Pop]

Omfg im just seeing the highlights of the Toros. If he can do that against NBA's second unit, why is Blair an Bonner getting more burn this this monster energy machine? Dammmn thats one bad ass white boy. I mean shiiiiiit!!! Block's, putbacks, dunks. What else do Pop want from the guy. Am I missing something abiut this guy or what? You cant tell me this guy aint good enough to get burn in the NBA.

Agreed, Pop is just too conservative and has no sense of urgency whatsoever. We have rebouding issue and we manage to get Baynes mid season and he does nothing with it, like everyone knew he would. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[Pop]

On Spurs.com, there's a new Pop mailbag : http://www.nba.com/spurs/features/130327_pop_mailbag


Josh
Location: San Antonio
Question: What are your thoughts on Aron Baynes? What do you expect him to contribute this year?
GP: We just expect him to start to learn the system. It’s tough to come in late in the season with what we do and know exactly how to operate, so, he’s just getting used to both the NBA and our system.

Doesn't sound good.

[jermaine]

When we signed him I was soooo hyped about watching Spurs gms. As time past I've grown sick an tired of watching tbe the combos of Blair an Diaw, Blair an Bonner or Bonner an Diaw. The shit aint motivation at all. Especially when we got a problem solver sitting on our bench. Hell even if he isn't, give the man a fucking shot to see if he is. I try to believe its a method to Pops madness but people on here love to speak of pass rings. Not lately Pop, not lately. Insain is to keep trying the samething over an over expecting new results. Well call Pop Insain

[hater]

No way Pop puts him in the rotation unless a catastrophe.

Spurs are a well oiled machine. You don't put a new part in unless it goes through rigorous certifications and testing and stress tests. Plus Baynes is far from mentally ready for a playofff atmosphere.

[jermaine]

No way Pop puts him in the rotation unless a catastrophe.

Spurs are a well oiled machine. You don't put a new part in unless it goes through rigorous certifications and testing and stress tests. Plus Baynes is far from mentally ready for a playofff atmosphere.
An Blair, Bonner, Green, Tiago is?

[hater]

Blair won't be seeing any time either. But he knows the system more than Baynes.

IMO Tiago and Green are as ready as they'll ever be. Same with Bonner, plus Bonner stretches the floor something no ther big does, specialized weapon, like a grenadier.

[palangi]

Aron is as stone-faced as Kawhi, emotionless.

Tim, Tiago, and an integrated Aron as the playoff rotation front-court would be wonderful. I'm disappointed that Pop is so conservative, slow in integrating arrivals into the system. Kawhi was an exception. I really can't see how missing out on pre-season practices excludes a player for an entire season.

exactly baynes could get blair minutes and play just fine. now is the time to integrate him with the team. a physical 6'11" guy with diaw or bonner on the second unit would be great.

[Obstructed_View]

Where's this myth that Baynes doesn't know the system come from? I haven't seen every minute of his play, but I haven't seen him out of position on either offense or defense. Hell, Francisco Elson was out of position half the time and he still managed to contribute. If Blair's knowledge of the system hasn't helped him to prevent his opponents from putting up MVP-level stats against him, perhaps it's time to have someone who's capable of playing an NBA center spot to do it and let him learn.

[hater]

it's no myth. Pop, the players and analysts have mentioned over the years. It takes months or years to learn Spurs system to Pop's liking. All new spurs go through that.

Blair knows the system, so does Bonner. Knowing the system doesn't mean that you will not make mistakes, or instantly become a good NBA player. But it's step 1 in Pop's book.

[palangi]

Where's this myth that Baynes doesn't know the system come from? I haven't seen every minute of his play, but I haven't seen him out of position on either offense or defense. Hell, Francisco Elson was out of position half the time and he still managed to contribute. If Blair's knowledge of the system hasn't helped him to prevent his opponents from putting up MVP-level stats against him, perhaps it's time to have someone who's capable of playing an NBA center spot to do it and let him learn.

yeah this whole learn the system thing is ridiculous. they ran a very very similar system on the australian national team and he has been with the spurs for about 2 months now. give me a break with this. throw the kid out there for 3-4 minute spurts and let him go.

[hater]

Gregg Popovich: We just expect him to start to learn the system. It’s tough to come in late in the season with what we do and know exactly how to operate, so, he’s just getting used to both the NBA and our system.


It might be ridiculous to you but it's made the Spurs the most successful franchise in sports. :rolleyes

[capek]

Where's this myth that Baynes doesn't know the system come from? I haven't seen every minute of his play, but I haven't seen him out of position on either offense or defense. Hell, Francisco Elson was out of position half the time and he still managed to contribute. If Blair's knowledge of the system hasn't helped him to prevent his opponents from putting up MVP-level stats against him, perhaps it's time to have someone who's capable of playing an NBA center spot to do it and let him learn.

It's a mystery. It's like the "system" has developed a life of it's own, external from Pop. It's the "system" that chooses if a player plays or not, more than it's Pop's choice or based upon the needs of the team. If a player's not around to go through training camp, the "system" doesn't consider him worthy to step on the floor outside of garbage time. So we bring over a guy who was averaging a double double in Euroleague, who plays the same position as two guys who make the team worse when they're on the court, but he doesn't meet the requirements of the "system," so he won't be played this season. Maddening.

[palangi]

It's a mystery. It's like the "system" has developed a life of it's own, external from Pop. It's the "system" that chooses if a player plays or not, more than it's Pop's choice or based upon the needs of the team. If a player's not around to go through training camp, the "system" doesn't consider him worthy to step on the floor outside of garbage time. So we bring over a guy who was averaging a double double in Euroleague, who plays the same position as two guys who make the team worse when they're on the court, but he doesn't meet the requirements of the "system," so he won't be played this season. Maddening.

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[UZER]

It's a mystery. It's like the "system" has developed a life of it's own, external from Pop. It's the "system" that chooses if a player plays or not, more than it's Pop's choice or based upon the needs of the team. If a player's not around to go through training camp, the "system" doesn't consider him worthy to step on the floor outside of garbage time. So we bring over a guy who was averaging a double double in Euroleague, who plays the same position as two guys who make the team worse when they're on the court, but he doesn't meet the requirements of the "system," so he won't be played this season. Maddening.

*blue font* you have an agenda. Four rings fa**ot

[benefactor]

:facepalm

[Obstructed_View]

Gregg Popovich: We just expect him to start to learn the system. It’s tough to come in late in the season with what we do and know exactly how to operate, so, he’s just getting used to both the NBA and our system.


It might be ridiculous to you but it's made the Spurs the most successful franchise in sports. :rolleyes


Again, Dejuan Blair knows the system and he stinks on ice. Matt Bonner couldn't have more time in the system and he still sucks as a center.


It might be ridiculous to you but this whole "system" thing has made the Spurs the laughingstock of playoff basketball the last six years.

[Obstructed_View]

At some point, starting starters, letting reserves come off the bench, playing bigs at the big positions, and having point guards running point is a better system than anything else out there, particularly when you can't just load everything up on the back of your aging-GOAT power forward.

[jjktkk]

Again, Dejuan Blair knows the system and he stinks on ice. Matt Bonner couldn't have more time in the system and he still sucks as a center.


It might be ridiculous to you but this whole "system" thing has made the Spurs the laughingstock of playoff basketball the last six years.

Got a link, or are you talking out of your ass again?

[hater]

Again, Dejuan Blair knows the system and he stinks on ice. Matt Bonner couldn't have more time in the system and he still sucks as a center.

you still don't get it. Baynes could be the next coming of Hakeem but he won't get in unless he learns the system. You might disagree, but again Spurs under Pop System are the most winning franchise in the last few years.



It might be ridiculous to you but this whole "system" thing has made the Spurs the laughingstock of playoff basketball the last six years.

making the WCF last year is far from laughingstock. Pop is a genius but no miracle worker.

besides, nothing that I've seen from Baynes in Spurs tells me that he is ready for NBA primetime. Yeah he dominates in the NBDL, so would Bonner and Blair

[UZER]

you still don't get it. Baynes could be the next coming of Hakeem but he won't get in unless he learns the system. You might disagree, but again Spurs under Pop System are the most winning franchise in the last few years.



making the WCF last year is far from laughingstock. Pop is a genius but no miracle worker.

besides, nothing that I've seen from Baynes in Spurs tells me that he is ready for NBA primetime. Yeah he dominates in the NBDL, so would Bonner and Blair

and nothing Blair or Bonner has ever done has shown they are ready for the primetime. but to keep trying something over and over with the same results is just stupid. Give the guy some freaking minutes already. I love Pop and what he has done for this franchise, but he really needs to get over himself.

[hater]

and nothing Blair or Bonner has ever done has shown they are ready for the primetime. but to keep trying something over and over with the same results is just stupid. Give the guy some freaking minutes already. I love Pop and what he has done for this franchise, but he really needs to get over himself.

they know the system. they still got an advantage over Baynes

it's not that hard to comprehend really

[benefactor]

:lol 4th bigs mattering in the playoffs

[KL2]

:lol 4th bigs mattering in the playoffs


Every single player out there getting at least 10mpg matters.

[Poolboy5623]

Why is Blair guarding McGee?? Is pop taunting spurs fans with this shit? .. I don't have any other explanation, as crazy as it sounds... I don't care if it's the playoffs or a meaningless reg season game..baynes should be playing over Blair. I'm gonna painfully laugh in the playoffs when pop gives Blair meaningful mins....my god this is ridiculous..

[benefactor]

Every single player out there getting at least 10mpg matters.
You missed the point. The Spurs will run a three big rotation with most of the minutes. The rest will be covered with small ball, which will be ideal against the teams that the Spurs will play against that are threats(Nuggets, Thunder and if the make the finals the Heat). All of you that are going into seizures because Pop isn't playing Baynes and is playing Bonner and Blair need to take your head out of your ass and realize that Bonner and Blair will play very little to none in the playoffs. Stephen Jackson and Kawhi Leonard will cover the rest of the minutes at the 4.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol 4th bigs mattering in the playoffs

Matt Bonner has been a 4th big since he's been a Spur, and he started in the playoffs. Tell me it didn't matter.

[Obstructed_View]

Got a link, or are you talking out of your ass again?

You want a link to the Spurs being upset in the playoffs every year since 2008, and being embarrassed every season since the 2007 championship? Um, basketballreference.com?

[benefactor]

Matt Bonner has been a 4th big since he's been a Spur, and he started in the playoffs. Tell me it didn't matter.
...and now Tiago Splitter is starting in the playoffs. Do you have a real fucking point or are you just saying bullshit to say it?

[Obstructed_View]

you still don't get it. Baynes could be the next coming of Hakeem but he won't get in unless he learns the system. You might disagree, but again Spurs under Pop System are the most winning franchise in the last few years.

So you're saying that Pop would play Hakeem over Blair or Bonner. Makes sense.

And I missed all the parades the Spurs have had over the last few years. I guess you were really happy about the regular season wins after the Spurs got bounced by the Grizzlies.

[benefactor]

If we need to be worried about anything it's the wing/guard rotation. The big rotation is far less of a concern.

[Obstructed_View]

...and now Tiago Splitter is starting in the playoffs. Do you have a real fucking point or are you just saying bullshit to say it?

Tiago Splitter didn't start until two months into his third season, and he's never started a playoff game. I might ask you the same question.

[benefactor]

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

[Obstructed_View]

I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Clearly you have no idea about a lot of things.

[Poolboy5623]

I get what you guys are saying, BUT if Blair and Bonner mins are so meaningless how much would it really hurt to give that time to someone else?...someone that actually has the size and frame to play the actual position...I just don't see how having such a big body(baynes) and actually having skills to go with that bod is best kept on the bench. Maybe if the spurs had a stall full of big men..but they don't. They really have Timmy and splitter..diaw is capable but isn't a big, by definition...there will be a time or two where the spurs will need size for a stretch in the playoffs and we can all think, "what if"....while we sit and watch opponents play volleyball around dejuan..

[benefactor]

I'm pretty sure I'm talking about this season. You want to explain how any of the bullshit you just stated about the past has to do with this years big rotation?

[jjktkk]

You want a link to the Spurs being upset in the playoffs every year since 2008, and being embarrassed every season since the 2007 championship? Um, basketballreference.com?

No, just pointing out your shitty, over exaggerated take, that " this whole "system" thing has made the Spurs the laughingstock of playoff basketball the last six years".

[palangi]

I'm pretty sure I'm talking about this season. You want to explain how any of the bullshit you just stated about the past has to do with this years big rotation?

you make a compelling case with your big boy language. sure makes you look real intelligent.

[TheGoldStandard]

I understand what everyone is saying regarding Blair and Bonner knowing the "system" and to an extent Bonner has more of a system to operate in because he's behind the arc rotating and looking for an open spot to shoot etc. Blair and Bonner on defense really don't operate in a system, they kind of just take up space and do there best to defend. A lot of what the spurs do now is still the same as what they've done in the past and that's try to funnel the defense into Duncan who can contest the shot and closeout and shooters. Baynes wouldn't need to really run out to meet anyone so as long as he stays away from drawing a 3 second violation he adds length on the defensive end to make it harder for guys to make a shot so he has that advantage over Blair and Bonner.

Offensively he's not a wing or a guard so he really doesn't need to do a whole lot. I mean when Tiago is out there he does 3 things, he sits in the post, sits at the elbow or comes out for a screen and roll. It's pick n' roll basketball, not much of a system there but rotating to the open spot and being ready for the pass. He won't spread the floor like Bonner but granted Bonner doesn't get minutes in crunch time so it doesn't matter and Blair doesn't get minutes in crunch time either so it's not like its any more of a liability than the other guys out there eating up minutes.

The one thing I have seen from Baynes is that he can hit a jump shot in his limited minutes and with the Toro's and he can finish at the rim and above it.

[Spur|n|Austin]

I watched, Aron play in Austin tonight; it was horrible.

[capek]

I watched, Aron play in Austin tonight; it was horrible.

Riveting analysis.

[Pop]

Looking at the boxscore he had a bad night, cant tell if hes losing interest or something, he probably realized Pop never gave him a chance to begin with.

[TheGoldStandard]

Looking at the boxscore he had a bad night, cant tell if hes losing interest or something, he probably realized Pop never gave him a chance to begin with.

How long can you play hard knowing it doesn't amount to anything? Not sure what the purpose of picking Baynes was mid-season.

[capek]

How long can you play hard knowing it doesn't amount to anything? Not sure what the purpose of picking Baynes was mid-season.

On the potential that Blair was traded.

[ChumpDumper]

Looking at the boxscore he had a bad night, cant tell if hes losing interest or something, he probably realized Pop never gave him a chance to begin with.


How long can you play hard knowing it doesn't amount to anything? Not sure what the purpose of picking Baynes was mid-season.


On the potential that Blair was traded.lol groupthink

[hater]

:lmao so when baynes has a bad nite, its because pop didnt play him meaningful mjnutes :lmao

Wow