Ok...the Spurs 05-06 lineup if everythng works out...

[whottt]

Let's say the Spurs pull off the trade of Rasho/Nazr for SAR...
Let's say the Spurs resign Big Dogg with all or a portion of the MLE..

Our 06 team would look like this IMO:

Starters:
PG:Parker
SG:Manu
SF:Bowen
PF:SAR
C:Duncan

Bench:
Beno
Devin
Barry
Big Dogg
Horry
Nazr
Player X(Scola? TMass?)

IR:Who knows?


In the immortal words of Sequ....Sheyitttt. I've never been a SAR fan...but on paper that lineup is fucking devastating...

Can anyone project what the likely payroll for that team would be?

I think it would pretty cheap actually for all the talent it has on it...about 55-58 million...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

if there was a word that meant devestating better than devestating, that lineup would be it

[Sense]

I don't like SAR as a starter at all or a pf...and Tim being a 5...


That just wouldn't work out.

[Marcus Bryant]

The question with GRobinson is can you get him for MLE type money for 2 or 3 seasons? I'd say he has about 2 to 3 worthwhile seasons left. He'd be a nice fit in SA, but you don't want to be stuck with him too long. The type of deal that Horry got seems pretty ideal for GRob.

If you can't get him for that, I still think that Kukoc is a good guy to have at the end of the bench. He'd cost the min or LLE for a year or two at most.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I really really want to keep Glenn. He can be bad ass for us next season.

[whottt]

Yeah...that's potentially 4 All Stars in the starting lineup...and the guy that probably won't make the All Star Team will challenge for DPOY...

The bench has the guy with the best midrange in the game, the clutchest guy in the game, pretty much the most efficient shooter in the game, and an O rebounding machine...not to mention a talented rookie and potentially the best PF in Europe...And a more experienced and talented back up PG in Beno.

Let's do it.

[whottt]

I don't like SAR as a starter at all or a pf...and Tim being a 5...


That just wouldn't work out.

Well that's will happen IMO...because SAR can do a hell of a lot more things than Nazr can...and so can Duncan.

[slayermin]

Oh no, not the Spurs again. - every western conference team when they have to play the Spurs.

[whottt]

The question with GRobinson is can you get him for MLE type money for 2 or 3 seasons? I'd say he has about 2 to 3 worthwhile seasons left. He'd be a nice fit in SA, but you don't want to be stuck with him too long. The type of deal that Horry got seems pretty ideal for GRob.

Agree...and I am beginning to think we can get Robinson on the cheap...


I haven't heard of any interest in him...and he didn't show much when the world was watching in the playoffs(but he showed it in the regular season)


See here's the thing...I think Robinson, Nazr and Shareef are all boys from their time in Atlanta...Isn't Nazr's jersey number a tribute to Big Dogg?


If you can't get him for that, I still think that Kukoc is a good guy to have at the end of the bench. He'd cost the min or LLE for a year or two at most.

Why? Kukok is like 50 and he can't do anything as well as Robinson can..

[usckk]

Another part of the MLE needs to go to Devin Brown as well.

[Sense]

Well that's will happen IMO...because SAR can do a hell of a lot more things than Nazr can...and so can Duncan.

Heh, I really don't think Duncan likes being a 5.... I think knowing that he has a Center backing him up helps his play.


I dislike Duncan being a Center more than SAR being on the team..

[ChumpDumper]

Could be the the start of an entirely new brand of Spurs basketball. Pop did say that Phoenix was the future of the game. Kind of ironic that the Suns are making moves toward the spurs' style while the Spurs look like they are moving toward them.

[whottt]

We have Devin's early bird rights.

[Nikos]

Spurs would still be an elite defensive team with SAR in the starting lineup. Might slip a bit, but would gain offense as well.

I wouldn't mind that lineup at all. Actually I like it. A lot......

[whottt]

Well as has been discussed...Duncan plays C all the freaking time for us, and does it as well as anyone in the game.... For some reason he just doesn't like being called a C...

I think Duncan likes winning titles more than anything...and Pop is still going to call his favorite plays on offense...

And it's not for certain Nazr will come off the bench...it's true he sucked off the bench last season and for most of his career..he may not have anything to offer off the bench...but anyway...that's not the point...put SAR on the bench if you like then look at the lineup again.

[whottt]

Could be the the start of an entirely new brand of Spurs basketball. Pop did say that Phoenix was the future of the game. Kind of ironic that the Suns are making moves toward the spurs' style while the Spurs look like they are moving toward them.

That team could play in the half court just as well as this years...IMO, perhaps better.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I assume by clutchest player in the game, you mean Horry? :rolleyes






























































jk of course

[slayermin]

Could be the the start of an entirely new brand of Spurs basketball. Pop did say that Phoenix was the future of the game. Kind of ironic that the Suns are making moves toward the spurs' style while the Spurs look like they are moving toward them.

And the scary thought is the Spurs can still lock people up on the defensive end.

[ChumpDumper]

That team could play in the half court just as well as this years...IMO, perhaps better.If SARS is the starter and primary big man, it's a move away from the twin towers concept. I'm not saying they couldn't paly halfcourt -- SARS and Marshall = spacing. This team simply seems built to run as a matter of course.

[whottt]

Can anyone approximate the payroll for that team?

Spurs have a 43 million dollar payroll as we speak...before Parker's contract has kicked in...Devin resigned etc...Let's assume we just do a straight S&T of Rasho for SAR.

[whottt]

If SARS is the starter and primary big man, it's a move away from the twin towers concept. I'm not saying they couldn't paly halfcourt -- SARS and Marshall = spacing. This team simply seems built to run as a matter of course.

Well that's true, defensively there would be a drop off in the starting rotation(but a boost to our bench)...but offensively it would be a better half court team than this year...IMO...SAR and Big Dogg are half court players...

[timvp]

I'd probably still go ahead and still start Nazr.

But as I've stated, this team works better with a power forward that can provide spacing on the floor. SARS can do that and still score inside when needed.

Hopefully Pop has to make that decision next season.

[ChumpDumper]

This could go well over $60 million.

[whottt]

That team would be able to stretch a D like few teams in recent memory,....including the Suns and Mavs...even Duncan can stretch it... the only guy on the entire roster that can't shoot a 3 or from 20 feet out is Nazr..

And SAR and Bigg Dogg can both post up(Yes Bigg Dogg can and he can draw a double team doing it..he did once upon a time).

[whottt]

This could go well over $60 million.

How do you figure?

[timvp]

Can anyone approximate the payroll for that team?

Spurs have a 43 million dollar payroll as we speak...before Parker's contract has kicked in...Devin resigned etc...Let's assume we just do a straight S&T of Rasho for SAR.

43 + 8 (Parker) + 2 (Brown) + 2 (GRob) + 4 (Horry increase) = Getting close to $60M

But with the luxury tax rules changing, it doesn't seem like there's any penalty for going over the luxury other than dollar for dollar matching. In past years, it cost Holt big $$$ if the Spurs were to go over it.

[DesiSpur_21]

Could be the the start of an entirely new brand of Spurs basketball. Pop did say that Phoenix was the future of the game. Kind of ironic that the Suns are making moves toward the spurs' style while the Spurs look like they are moving toward them.

Nice observation - It's the fine line between Suns' and Spurs' style of play every team should try to acheive, which is very tough IMO even for Spurs and Suns to toggle or fine-tune to that level of accuracy.

[Marcus Bryant]

If you can't land GRob then what other vet small forwards are available for the role that SA has to offer? Yes, Kukoc is past his prime, just like DFerry and Kerry before him. You want a guy who knows the game and can sit for a while and then come off the bench and make a contribution. You'd also like that guy to come for cheap.

I'm quite amazed at how Spurs fans suddenly have forgotten how the Spurs build their teams. Kukoc fits the prototypical Spur vet minimum role player profile.

[whottt]

The thing is...you talk about weapons...every guy on the bench could be considered a weapon in one form or another...

You know I wonder when that new coach we got started working with Kerr...I wonder what kind of impact he can have on Barry...who is probably a self taught shooter(his style is funky enough looking)...

[whottt]

If you can't land GRob then what other vet small forwards are available for the role that SA has to offer?

Yes, Kukoc is past his prime, just like DFerry and Kerry before him. You want a guy who knows the game and can sit for a while and then come off the bench and make a contribution. You'd also like that guy to come for cheap.

Well if we can't get Bigg Dogg he'll come under consideration...but I really don't see why we can't get Big Dogg...his stock didn't go up as much as we thought IMO...he didn't get a chance to show much in the playoffs.


I'm quite amazed at how Spurs fans suddenly have forgotten how the Spurs build their teams. Kukoc fits the prototypical Spur vet minimum role player profile.

Me personally...I'd rather have Bo Outlaw than Kukok...this team will have plenty of shooting.

[timvp]

I wonder what kind of impact he can have on Barry...who is probably a self taught shooter...

Barry for the first time all season stayed on his shot and didn't fade before it left his hand. And it was in Game 7 of the Finals.

He's fine. He's one of us now.

:smokin

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You know I wonder when that new coach we got started working with Kerr...I wonder what kind of impact he can have on Barry...who is probably a self taught shooter...

i like the new coach but part of me says you know these guys have their shots and strokes engrained in their minds and bodies, its like a reflex, it has to be ridiculously hard to change a shot or unprogram bad habits, now i think maybe this new coach won't be all he's cracked up to be

[Marcus Bryant]

You want guys at the end of that bench who can contribute if called upon in championship situations. You don't want projects. Kukoc is skilled enough and has enough game left to be able to do that. We aren't talking about him starting or even being a regular backup.

I mean, this isn't a big deal, at least if you aren't one who believes that every roster spot must be filled by an in his prime All-Star.

[ChumpDumper]

Tim Duncan $15,845,156

Tony Parker $8,400,000

Emanuel Ginobili $7,425,000

SARS $6,720,000

Nazr Mohammed $5,500,000

Brent Barry $4,950,000

Bruce Bowen $3,375,000

Beno Udrih $904,800

Devin Brown $2,500,000

Big Dogg $1,800,000

Horry $4,950,000

Player X $600,000

Total $63,344,956

[whottt]

I think you just like the color of Kukoc's skin better[/yourself]

[Cant_Be_Faded]

LOL. When did people start calling Shareef SARS? I thought it was coincidence but this is too funny

[Marcus Bryant]

So the Spurs are going to have TD, SAR, Nazr, Horry and Scola. You have enough bigs. You need someone credible with size who can play the 3. Remember how GRob frustrated the hell out of Melo? The great defender Glenn Robinson.

An added bonus is that Kukoc's skills are tailor made for the Spurs motion offense. He'd come cheap and fill your last clear need for next season. What's the problem?

[timvp]

$63M is pretty steep. At what point are we expecting the luxury tax to kick in for next season?

[slayermin]

$62,944,956.00?

Well I'm doing my part. You can bet your last vbookie dollar that I'm gonna renew my league pass subscription if SAR is in the house.

[whottt]

That's a good estimate Chump...IMO...It's still doable though(If you are right about Holt)...

I don't think Devin will cost 2.5 a season though...I'm not certain that Horry is getting paid the full amount we can pay him...I think it will take more than that to get Robinson...

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs commit long term to SAR, Big Dog and Nazr this summer I will buy a Holt Cat hat.

:smokin

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Remember how GRob frustrated the hell out of Melo? The great defender Glenn Robinson.




It was just for a few plays and after Melo had been dogging it against Bowen for a long time....Grob definitely hindered his post up crap, but he wasn't all that imo

[Marcus Bryant]

His size was enough in a rather crucial spot. That's why you want some real bench depth with players who know what they are doing.

I mean, I'd feel better going into a title round with an experienced vet who can give you spot minutes than some young dude who everyone loves yet can only contribute the waving of a towel. To hell with that.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think Devin will cost 2.5 a season though...I'm not certain that Horry is getting paid the full amount we can pay him...I think it will take more than that to get Robinson.It's an estimate. I do believe Horry is getting the full ride. Ferry did. And I think Doggie will cost more too -- just being charitable -- could even out with Devin's apparent overage if you like.

[whottt]

So the Spurs are going to have TD, SAR, Nazr, Horry and Scola. You have enough bigs. You need someone credible with size who can play the 3. Remember how GRob frustrated the hell out of Melo? The great defender Glenn Robinson.

An added bonus is that Kukoc's skills are tailor made for the Spurs motion offense. He'd come cheap and fill your last clear need for next season. What's the problem?


alright...I'll give you Kukoc...and excuse me for calling him old(he's the same age I am)...I still think Outlaw fills more of a need though, if we have to go that route...

[Marcus Bryant]

Scola fills that role, Horry fills that role. Spurs don't really have a perimeter player with size ala Hedo. For all of his offensive woes, his size on defense was quite nice.

[timvp]

Kukoc at 6-foot-11 on the perimeter would solve a lot of problems ... even if it's only for spot duty every third game.

[whottt]

$63M is pretty steep. At what point are we expecting the luxury tax to kick in for next season?

I think it's going to move up substantially...

It was already like at 56 or something...

The league set an attendance record this year...

There were a ton of long playoff series...

And supposedly the finals rating were among the highest ever with the international audience...


I don't know exactly how to figure it though(yet)

[ChumpDumper]

Oh, if anyone figured Tony's first year deal, let me know -- mine was just a guess.

[whottt]

Doesn't Tony's deal start out about the same as Manu's? I thought the major difference between their two deals was that Parker got an extra year...

[ChumpDumper]

You guys can edit it if you figure it out. I'm going to sleep.

[whottt]

Lightweight

[timvp]

Oh, if anyone figured Tony's first year deal, let me know -- mine was just a guess.

If Parker's deal is $66M over 7 years with a 12.5% increase, that works out to a starting salary at a little under $7M.

[timvp]

Lightweight

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

I'll just round it to $7 million.

[Kori Ellis]

Parker's contract isn't seven years; it's six.

[timvp]

Parker's contract isn't seven years; it's six.

The lady is right. Scratch that. $8M was more accurate.

[ChumpDumper]

Shit.

[Kori Ellis]

I keep correcting people in the forum about that. I don't know why people think it was seven years. His contract starts at around $8.4M.

[Marcus Bryant]

Assuming the Spurs have both SAR and GRob on the bench, that's some scoring punch to have available, something that as Spurs fans we've not seen before. Yes, over the years the Spurs have had benches that have been able to put up points, but not any great individual scorers. Being able to throw in a Rahim or a GRobinson is a nice dimension. Teams have to prep for the Spurs' big 3, but the Spurs would add more wrinkles to their offense if they had another bigman who can score inside and outside as well as a guy who is automatic with his jumper.

The thing is, the Spurs could get Rahim for Kers...er, Nesterovic, sign GRobinson for a relatively small deal, and bring in Scola and watch him tear up the league and yet Bryan Colangelo or whoever would get the Exec of the Year award for signing Raja Bell.

It's ok, as long as the Spurs keep adding the hardware.

[whottt]

Chump do you have any idea what the threshold will be?

[whottt]

Why does Tony's contract start out at so much more than Manu's?

It seems like they both average out to around 11 million per season...

Manu is 5 years 55 million and Tony is 6 years 66 million...right?

I know they don't make a straight 11 million per year but Tony is going to get a raise in that last season too...

[ChumpDumper]

That's where things get screwy. The cap is based on what the league thinks revenues will be before the season, while the tax threshold is based on actual revenues totaled up after the season.

If the projections turn out to be completely accurate with a $50 million cap, the tax threshold should be about $59.9 million.

[timvp]

Why does Tony's contract start out at so much more than Manu's?

It seems like they both average out to around 11 million per season...

Manu is 5 years 55 million and Tony is 6 years 66 million...right?

I know they don't make a straight 11 million per year but Tony is going to get a raise in that last season too...

No, Manu is 6 year $52M and Tony is 6 year $66M.

[Kori Ellis]

According to Larry Coon, for 03-04 the Luxury Tax threshold was $54.6M and the Cliff threshold was $58.3M.

[whottt]

That's where things get screwy. The cap is based on what the league thinks revenues will be before the season, while the tax threshold is based on actual revenues totaled up after the season.

If the projections turn out to be completely accurate with a $50 million cap, the tax threshold should be about $59.9 million.

That's pretty high...it's concievable the Spurs could pull off this roster and be under that threshold...

Thanks for figuring that.

[whottt]

According to Larry Coon, for 03-04 the Luxury Tax threshold was $54.6M and the Cliff threshold was $58.3M.

I saw that...I don't think there is a cliff threshold anymore...

That's why Chump and Aggie are saying Holt might not be as tight...

I still think he's not going to like the idea of paying that tax though...

I think he's a republican...;)

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah I was just putting the numbers out there to guestimate what the Tax Threshold should be this year -- I see Chump already estimated it at $59.9M

[whottt]

All I know is that the league set an attendance record and had 3 or 4 7 games series in the playoffs and set an international record for ratings in game 2 of the finals(all of them did well interntaionally I believe, and even the national ratings were up in the later games)...all those things increase the BRI thingamajig...I don't think that happens very often.

[ChumpDumper]

If revenues are high enough, there won't be any luxury tax.

Even if there is -- the rebates are now distributed evenly between teams no matter what their tax situations. So if the total rebates equal $60 million, the Spurs can be $2 million over the tax threshold with no net penalty.

[whottt]

Will the waive loophole and higher cap decrease the chance of the lux tax kicking in as well?

[ChumpDumper]

Will the waive loophole and higher cap decrease the chance of the lux tax kicking in as well?Very likely. I forgot the exact total paid in taxes the previous seasons, but i'm pretty sure it was higher than $60 million.

[Kori Ellis]

ChumpDumper - you can go to sleep now. I'll get Whottt to stop dragging you back in this thread for tonight.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Will the waive loophole and higher cap decrease the chance of the lux tax kicking in as well?

Actually, wouldn't the waive loophole increase the chance of the luxury tax kicking in? I haven't read up too much on the subject but if high dollar players get waived, their salary is still getting paid and included in the BRI (this is where I might start losing the concepts here). When they re-sign with other teams, their deals for the MLE or MLE+ would add to the amount being paid out in player salaries. While the extra amount might not be terribly significant, I just think that it would inch us closer to a tax as opposed to a move in the opposite direction.

And yes, I have considered the idea that money that goes to them either would have gone to other players anyway or as a result, other people might be forced to sign for less thus leveling the playing field since the teams tend to have a finite amount of money they can spend.

[Horry For 3!]

Kukoc at 6-foot-11 on the perimeter would solve a lot of problems ... even if it's only for spot duty every third game.
I saw Kukoc's stats last season and all he mostly did was shoot 3s.

[xcoriate]

Stats don't tell the whole story, you could look at Horrys and see pretty much the same thing.