Time line on Scola

[SUNDVOLD 20]

Was up everyone, this is my first post in this forum. Just wanted to know when we sign Scola????? before or after the 22nd!!!!

[Solid D]

Welcome. No FA can sign prior to July 22. Free Agents can announce their intentions, which is what you are seeing on the "commitments" to teams from Horry, Hughes, Allen, etc..

No news yet, on Luis Scola. Just keep checking in here daily, because this place keeps current on most NBA news and rumors.

[ChumpDumper]

Since he's a draft pick, can't we technically sign him now? Or do the rules change if you don't sign that first summer?

[Solid D]

Since he's a draft pick, can't we technically sign him now? Or do the rules change if you don't sign that first summer?

Good question. I know it's a Free Agent moratorium but I'm not sure about those players with signing rights already committed to a team. It's kind of fuzzy and tough to keep straight with a different (proposed) CBA about to go into effect.

[ZStomp]

Isn't Scola under a contract in Europe? Hence, the Spurs/Scola will have to buy it out. So he can not just sigh with SA easily.

[timvp]

Since he's a draft pick, can't we technically sign him now? Or do the rules change if you don't sign that first summer?

Can second round picks sign right now? If so, Scola should be able to be signed.

[ChumpDumper]

Ah, only if he signed for the minimum, it seems.

Manu was signed one day after the moratorium ended, for example.

[Solid D]

I read somewhere that Scola's buyout with Tau is $2M Euros which would equate to $2.387 M US. I have no clue on what exceptions there are for the signing maratorium.

[ChumpDumper]

Goddam dollar devaluation....

[boutons]

"Goddam dollar devaluation.."

rock-bottom interest rates will do that to a currency.

The Eu plummeted a couple weeks back, to a 10-month low against the $, when EC summit ended with no agreement, plus FR and NL voting no to the constitution.

A couple months ago, Eu 2M would have been US$ 2.6M

[grjr]

I say we just sign Big Dog and let Scola play out his contract--unless he's so desperate to come over he would sign for the LLE.

[midgetonadonkey]

Does the cost of the buy out go against the cap?

[Rick Von Braun]

I read somewhere that Scola's buyout with Tau is $2M Euros which would equate to $2.387 M US. I have no clue on what exceptions there are for the signing maratorium. Hmm... it seems that the price is higher to bring Scola this summer.

Let's run some numbers, shall we?

Tau Ceramica has a very hard-line president, and he will not concede anything. He would be more than happy to have Scola playing for Tau another year. If the Spurs want Scola now, he (Scola the player, NOT the Spurs or anyone else) has to pay the full 2M Euros NOW.

The total money in cash would be 2.387M roughly ~2.4M. Teams can provide 350K for contract buyouts. Teams can also provide a cash bonus to the player, that I think it could be around 400K (this is how the Spurs managed to pay Manu's 750K contract buyout). I am not sure if this money can be payed to the player in one lump sum, or if should be payed over a certain period of time (like in the first 12 months). Someone should research this issue. Let's be optimistic and assume that it could be payed in one lump sum (still this money is taxable!).

Players earning millions of dollars are in the very high income brackets. They should pay around 45% in taxes. This includes both federal and state taxes, the state taxes are prorated among all the states they play during the year. Since Scola will play half the game in Texas with no state income tax, it may be a little less, but not much less (most of the 45% are Federal taxes anyway). Let's be conservative and assume 45%.

So...

+2.400M -- total contract buyout
-0.350M -- cash for buyout
----------
+2.05M

Assuming the 45% in taxes owed to the Federal and State goverments on income, and assuming 100K of living expenses for the first year, the Spurs should pay Scola in the first year of his contract:

remaing of buyout + 1 year living expenses = (1st year salary + cash bonus) * 55% after taxes
2.05 + 0.10 = (1st year salary + 0.40) * 0.55
1st year salary = 3.51M

We are not done yet. Players usually receive a pro-rated part of their salary with a check every 15 days. I don't know the rules, but in the case of Scola's buyout, he should receive at least 2.05M up front to have enough equity to pay the buyout. Furthermore, I think the Federal goverment will want some of that money up front as well if it is provided in one big lump sum, so the Spurs may need to pay him the full 3.51M (+ the 400K bonus).

Now, there are other options. Scola could apply for a loan using the Spurs guaranteed contract as collateral. The problem is that Scola is a foreigner with no credit history in the States, so the interest would be quite hefty. Private lenders could easily ask him 20% APR per year. The Spurs FO may work something out for him though. Let's assume they get him a 10% APR via one of Holt's bankers' friends for 3 years. He would be paying 60K per month in principal + interest assuming no extra fees, or $720K per year. Assuming he would like to get at least 1M per year net on his pocket (the equivalent of an LLE contract after taxes), the Spurs should be paying him a contract in his first year of roughly:

1st year contract = LLE + loan payment = 1.8M + 0.72M
1st year contract = 2.5M

So the Spurs would have to offer him something in the order of 2.5M -- 3.5M range in the first year to bring Scola in this summer. If I run the numbers correctly, this clearly indicates that the LLE is certainly NOT sufficient, and the Spurs would be using at least half of the MLE if they plan to bring him in this year. Of course, this conclusion is only correct if my assumptions are valid.

[thispego]

damn rick, nice job

[timvp]

Hmm... it seems that the price is higher to bring Scola this summer.

Let's run some numbers, shall we?

Tau Ceramica has a very hard-line president, and he will not concede anything. He would be more than happy to have Scola playing for Tau another year. If the Spurs want Scola now, he (Scola the player, NOT the Spurs or anyone else) has to pay the full 2M Euros NOW.

The total money in cash would be 2.387M roughly ~2.4M. Teams can provide 350K for contract buyouts. Teams can also provide a cash bonus to the player, that I think it could be around 400K (this is how the Spurs managed to pay Manu's 750K contract buyout). I am not sure if this money can be payed to the player in one lump sum, or if should be payed over a certain period of time (like in the first 12 months). Someone should research this issue. Let's be optimistic and assume that it could be payed in one lump sum (still this money is taxable!).

Players earning millions of dollars are in the very high income brackets. They should pay around 45% in taxes. This includes both federal and state taxes, the state taxes are prorated among all the states they play during the year. Since Scola will play half the game in Texas with no state income tax, it may be a little less, but not much less (most of the 45% are Federal taxes anyway). Let's be conservative and assume 45%.

So...

+2.400M -- total contract buyout
-0.350M -- cash for buyout
----------
+2.05M

Assuming the 45% in taxes owed to the Federal and State goverments on income, and assuming 100K of living expenses for the first year, the Spurs should pay Scola in the first year of his contract:

remaing of buyout + 1 year living expenses = (1st year salary + cash bonus) * 55% after taxes
2.05 + 0.10 = (1st year salary + 0.40) * 0.55
1st year salary = 3.51M

We are not done yet. Players usually receive a pro-rated part of their salary with a check every 15 days. I don't know the rules, but in the case of Scola's buyout, he should receive at least 2.05M up front to have enough equity to pay the buyout. Furthermore, I think the Federal goverment will want some of that money up front as well if it is provided in one big lump sum, so the Spurs may need to pay him the full 3.51M (+ the 400K bonus).

Now, there are other options. Scola could apply for a loan using the Spurs guaranteed contract as collateral. The problem is that Scola is a foreigner with no credit history in the States, so the interest would be quite hefty. Private lenders could easily ask him 20% APR per year. The Spurs FO may work something out for him though. Let's assume they get him a 10% APR via one of Holt's bankers' friends for 3 years. He would be paying 60K per month in principal + interest assuming no extra fees, or $720K per year. Assuming he would like to get at least 1M per year net on his pocket (the equivalent of an LLE contract after taxes), the Spurs should be paying him a contract in his first year of roughly:

1st year contract = LLE + loan payment = 1.8M + 0.72M
1st year contract = 2.5M

So the Spurs would have to offer him something in the order of 2.5M -- 3.5M range in the first year to bring Scola in this summer. If I run the numbers correctly, this clearly indicates that the LLE is certainly NOT sufficient, and the Spurs would be using at least half of the MLE if they plan to bring him in this year. Of course, this conclusion is only correct if my assumptions are valid.

Nice.

And if the Spurs wait another year, then Scola doesn't have a buyout. It'll be interesting to see what they do. If they have to give him a bigger contract up front, they should give him a three year contract that starts at $3M and then decreases by 10% in each upcoming season. I believe that would still work under the new CBA.

So it would be a three year contract with the first year being $3M, the second year being $2.7M and the third year being $2.4M. That'd be a three year, $8.1M contract. That's pretty hefty -- especially when compared to Manu -- but if the Spurs are high on him, it'd probably be worth it.

[Solid D]

I believe Nocioni got a 3-year, $9M deal, didn't he? That's sort of the range of what we were figuring Luis would warrant.

[Karl Mundt]

Are you sure it's still a 2 million dollar buyout? If he has 1 year left on his contract, then presuming he's making around 1 million per year, the team would basically be paying 3 million dollars for the next season, considering they aren't gonna get anything from him in a year, which is probably about a million more than any player is making in Europe currently. And if he really wants to go to the NBA and they don't let him, they'll be paying that for a discontent player. If he's free from his contract next year, then the most i expect is a one million buyout. However if his contract is signed for the longer amount of time, they may not budge on the buyout, but some pressure from Scola might change their mind if he indicates he isn't interested in playing in Europe anymore.

[Solid D]

I don't have the article handy but I'm pretty sure I read the 2M Euros number from an Argentine story (Buenos Aires or Bahia Blanca). I would think that would at least be his final contract year salary with TAU, if not a little more.

[picnroll]

Wouldn't Scola paying the buyout have that money deductible as a business expense?

[Rick Von Braun]

Wouldn't Scola paying the buyout have that money deductible as a business expense? I don't think you can deduct taxes as a foreigner. He could start doing so after he obtains his permanent residency, but it would take at least two years.

There are some other issues regarding taxes. He could get incorporated in order to save some money in taxes (there is a little loophole :-), but there are also restrictions as to what is the minimum amount of time he has to reside in the states before he could do so. In addition, as a foreigner, in order to speed up his permanent residency application and use some to the loopholes, he could apply as an "investor" bringing money to a business. The problem is that the minimum investment to qualify is 2M, so it is again the chicken or the egg.

[Rick Von Braun]

I believe Nocioni got a 3-year, $9M deal, didn't he? That's sort of the range of what we were figuring Luis would warrant. I believe he got 3 years, $11M, but someone could confirm this. I remember reading Nocioni was very thankful of the Bulls FO, since they deviced the entire financial engineering strategy to pay TAU the buyout and figure out all the taxes and such. Nocioni's contract buyout was a little higher than Scola's (2.8 Euros), but the exchange rate at the time was near 1 to 1. It was probably around 10% more than Scola's contract based on today's exchange rate.

[Kori Ellis]

SolidD, I understood the buyout was 1.7M Euros, equating to approximately $2M U.S. dollars.

[Kori Ellis]

I believe he got 3 years, $11M, but someone could confirm this.

Nocioni's contract was 3 years/$8.3M confirmed by two sources.

[Rick Von Braun]

SolidD, I understood the buyout was 1.7M Euros, equating to approximately $2M U.S. dollars. I am confused http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smidrunk.gif. I thought at one point in time I argued for the 1.7M Euros figure I read in a Spanish newspaper and you confirmed it was much larger with several sources (including journalists from Argentina). I remember we even PM each other regarding this... http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smispin.gif. IIRC, I got the figure I posted from you (not that really matters :))


Nocioni's contract was 3 years/$8.3M confirmed by two sources. Cool, and thanks for the confirmation http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smiprincess.gif

That means that Scola's contract should be in the order of 3years/$9.0M with a larger buyout. It should be within the range I suggested, and probably both contracts should be very similar in terms of conditions, since it is essentially a negotiation with the same club/president.

[Kori Ellis]

I am confused . I thought at one point in time I argued for the 1.7M Euros figure I read in a Spanish newspaper and you confirmed it was much larger with several sources (including journalists from Argentina).

Last summer the only dollar amounts we talked about were American Dollars. At that time, I believe I confirmed with them it was $2M American Dollars when you said it was $1.7M American Dollars. I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about Euros.
But maybe I'm confused. :drunk

Anyway, I have no idea if the buyout went up or down from last year but just recently someone told me that it was $1.7M Euros. (Don't know if it's true or not)

[violentkitten]

so the spurs will have to use the mid level exception for scola this summer. they'll probably lose big dog then.

[Rick Von Braun]

Last summer the only dollar amounts we talked about were American Dollars. At that time, I believe I confirmed with them it was $2M American Dollars when you said it was $1.7M American Dollars. I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about Euros.
But maybe I'm confused. :drunk Nope you are right, that is probably correct. I remember that I was arguing for the lower figure, so that makes sense. :)


so the spurs will have to use the mid level exception for scola this summer. they'll probably lose big dog then. If the Spurs bring in Scola (something not clear yet), they will probably still have around 2M from the rest of the MLE + 1.8M from the LLE, so they could potentially bring 2 additional decent players if they want to do it.

Assuming they resign Horry and Devin, they don't trade Rasho, we would have a roster like:

PG Tony Parker, Beno Udrih, LLE backup PG
SG Manu Ginobili, Brent Barry
SF Bruce Bowen, Devin Brown, 2M long SF
PF Tim Duncan, Robert Horry, Luis Scola
C Nazr Mohammed, Rasho Nesterovic

That's 13 players + 2 min contracts for IR fodder to carry a total of 15 players. Not bad.

Call me nutz, but under this scenario I wouldn't mind having Alan Houston once he is cut from the Knicks. You can never have enough 3-pt threats. Manu, Bruce, and Devin could hold the fort defensively at 2-3 and the Spurs could have Barry and Houston as offensive specialists. If Big Dog could play some defense, so could Alan Houston. Another choice would be to sign a long defensive minded SF project to replace Bruce Bowen.

[violentkitten]

say man, i'm not a woman.

[Solid D]

Okay, here is the "2M Euros" article in Spanish and in computer translated English

http://www.lmcba.com.ar/2005/05-07-07/6_podio_14.htm

07 Jul : 2005
Lo tienen en la mira

En la NBA están cumpliendo los primeros pasos en la confección de los planteles para la próxima temporada y varios argentinos están expectantes, entre ellos el cordobés Fabricio Oberto.
Cumplido el draft, en el que eligen a los nuevos talentos, los equipos están abocados a renovar los contratos de los jugadores que terminan sus vínculos (agentes libres) y el siguiente paso es buscar nuevos integrantes.
El campeón San Antonio Spurs arregló la extensión contractual con Robert Horry (por tres años), y según confesó su general manager, RC Buford, ahora irán por Oberto o Luis Scola. Buford, quien junto al técnico Gregg Popovich se encargan del armado del plantel, dijo en el Web especilista en los Spurs (Woai), que «estamos siguiendo a los argentinos Oberto o Scola. Son nuestro próximo objetivo».
Desde 1997, tras el Mundial Sub-22, el equipo de Emanuel Ginóbili, sigue al pivote cordobés, pero nunca pudo concretar su fichaje. También les interesa Scola, de quien tienen los derechos tras elegirlo en el draft de 2002. Además de la experiencia, Oberto tiene la ventaja sobre su compañero de la Selección, que es jugador libre, sin contrato. En contrapartida, «Luifa» Scola está vinculado al Tau Cerámica hasta 2007 y su salida rondaría los 2.000.000 de euros.
Durante las finales de la NBA, entre Spurs y Pistons, la dirigencia de San Antonio preguntó a dos técnicos argentinos cuestiones personales de Oberto y Scola.
Otro paso que pretenden los Spurs y que incluye a Oberto es el intento de fichar al alero Donyell Marshall, de Toronto Raptors, en un cambio con el pivote esloveno Rasho Nesterovic. La salida del europeo le daría lugar al cordobés, o a Scola, en el equipo y también en el presupuesto de los Spurs.
San Antonio tiene uno de los presupuestos más bajos de la Liga. En la temporada anterior fue de 44.550.584 dólares y gran parte se lo llevan el contrato de Tim Duncan, Manu Ginóbili y Tony Parker. Si se va Nesterovic, habrá dinero para fichar a los olímpicos argentinos.En tanto, Barcelona, que «cortó» a Roberto Dueñas y Unicaja Malaga, que se desprendería de Walter Herrmann, quieren a Oberto.
El día más feliz

Ayer a las 17.30 nació, Julia, la primera hija del olímpico Fabricio Oberto y su esposa Lorena. La beba pesó 3,750 kilógramos y midió 52 centímetros. El papá dijo: «Fue el mejor partido de mi vida. Nos atendieron barbaro en la (Clínica) Sucre, quiero agradecerles. La nena está bárbara y divina».
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now here is a rough translator version:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.lmcba.com.ar/2005/05-07-07/6_podio_14.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3DScola%2BOberto%2BSpurs%2BEuros%26hl%3 Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

They have it in the sight

In the NBA they are fulfilling the first passages in the preparation of the establishments for the next season and several Argentineans are expectant, among them the Cordovan Fabricio Oberto.
Fulfilled draft, in that they choose to the new talents, the equipment is led to renew contracts of the players who finish to their bonds (free agents) and the following step is to look for new members.
The champion San Antonio Spurs fixed the contractual extension with Robert Horry (by three years), and according to confessed his general to manager, RC Buford, now Oberto or Luis Scola will go by. Buford, that next to technician Gregg Popovich they are in charge of the armed one of the establishment, said in the especilista Web in the Spurs (Woai), that "we are following the Argentineans Oberto or Scola. They are our next objective ".
From 1997, after the World-wide Sub-22, the equipment of Emanuel Ginóbili, follows the Cordovan pivot, but never it could make specific its draftee. Also Scola interests to them, of that they have the right after choosing it in draft of 2002. In addition to the experience, Oberto has the advantage on its companion of the Selection, that is free player, without contract. In counterpart, "Luifa" Scola is tie to the Ceramic Tau until 2007 and its exit would go up to around the 2,000,000 of euros.

During the end of the NBA, between Spurs and Pistons, the leadership of San Antonio asked two Argentine technicians personal questions of Oberto and Scola.
Another step which they try the Spurs and that includes Oberto is the attempt to file to eaves Donyell Marshall, of Toronto Raptors, in a change with the Slovenian pivot Rasho Nesterovic. The exit of the European would give rise to him to the Cordovan, or to Scola, in the equipment and also in the budget of the Spurs.
San Antonio has one of the lowest budgets of Liga. In the previous season it was of 44,550,584 dollars and great part takes the contract to it of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginóbili and Tony Parker. If Nesterovic goes away, there will be money to file to the Olympic ones argentinos.En as much, Barcelona, that "short '" to Robert Dueñas and Unicaja Malaga, who would come off themselves Walter Herrmann, they want to Oberto.
The happiest day

To 17,30 it was born yesterday, Julia, the first daughter of the Olympic Fabricio Oberto and its Lorena wife. It drinks it it weighed 3.750 kilógramos and it measured 52 centimeters. The papa said: "It was the best party of my life. They took care of barbaro to us in (Clinical) the Sucre, I want to be thankful to them. The baby is Barbarian and divine ".

[Rick Von Braun]

say man, i'm not a woman.
Ooopss... sorry violentkitten, my bad http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smidrunk.gif

[ChumpDumper]

Unwad your panties, the Spurs can't do anything for a couple of weeks.

[ducks]

it has been reported scola would accept 6 million for 3 year deal

but we has see

[Solid D]

it has been reported scola would accept 6 million for 3 year deal

but we has see

I haven't heard that one for like 2 years. Do you remember when and where you saw/heard that?

No way you do a buy-out at that rate. It just doesn't work, at $350K per year.

No way Scola does that with Nocioni signing at near $9M for 3.

[ALVAREZ6]

but we has see
ok, ducks, I seriously don't know what to think.

I've known for a long ass time that you don't use correct grammar, puncuation, etc...

Do you do it on purpose? are you just lazy? Or are you stupid?



I'm just curious.

[constantstate]

ok, ducks, I seriously don't know what to think.

I've known for a long ass time that you don't use correct grammar, puncuation, etc...

Do you do it on purpose? are you just lazy? Or are you stupid?



I'm just curious.

i've been reading that for a long time... not always agreeing with it... but i've always seen duck's writing as a spurs fan's haiku.

[ace3g]

why not get both oberto and scola, we could use oberto as a back up C; and we could probably get him for the vet minimum

[waly.mg]

Scola Block on Jermaine (http://www.autoservizi.com.ar/scola_jermaine.wmv)

[SpursChampsIII]

Check out the street thug move by O'Neil stomping on Scola after he had his weak stuff packed? This punk is just like Artest when it comes to anger management...that is why the Pacers will not win a championship until these idiots mature...how long will it take???

[waly.mg]

For that reason it is that I said when he was suspended it that already he had antecedents

[waly.mg]

Probably Manu could make a loan of 2 million to bring him

[Phenomanul]

I don't know if Manu is allowed to do that.... Kind of like Timmy wanting to pony up the $2MM out of his own pocket to bring Parker's agent and Holt to terms.

[Phenomanul]

Scola Block on Jermaine (http://www.autoservizi.com.ar/scola_jermaine.wmv)


Did anybody else notice the "Lakers Suck" banner near the end of the clip... :lol :lol

[waly.mg]

a loan, not a Gift

[Kori Ellis]

I'm sure that Scola could easily get a loan to cover the buyout if he gets a decent contract offer (3years/$9M or so) from the Spurs. At this point, I haven't heard that the Spurs have offered him anything yet. Has anyone in Argentina heard anything regarding the negotiations or if they are even negotiating at all right now?

[waly.mg]

InArgentina Pop said that Luis Scola was a priority but that was going to depend on the money
But of all ways that he one said the last year with Manu and soon he said that Manu did not go away to any side nor by any money

[diego]

the TAU owner would have to be stupid to let scola go for nothing. if the spurs don't sign him, i see him either

a) getting an extension
or
b) getting traded to another euro team

[Gummi]

My dream offseason is to get Scola and Oberto then re-sign Devin and Massenburg and call it a day. And of course sign a couple roster fillers to finalize the roster.

I've been waiting on Scola for two years and now I hope my waiting is over. I really like his game and energy. Oberto is a solid big with experience and winning mentality. What's not to like about him?

I also like Shareef's game, but it seems that he's looking for a big and long contract and I'm 100% sure that the Spurs aren't going to give him a long expensive deal. So IMO Shareef's a goner for us.

[waly.mg]

I believe the Buyout next year is zero, so is better for the Tau to take 2 million dollars this year than nothing in the next

That´s the Way that Carlos Delfino join Detroit

[clubalien]

say man, i'm not a woman.
when i look at your picture of a pussy and it looks so cute seems a little girly

maybe if you had soem attacking cat or deadly lion or soemthing

anyways I do love looking at it its so cute so don't change it and you weren;'t going to any ways

BTW is that your realy kitty or a stolen image from somewhere?

[kolko]

Teams can provide 350K for contract buyouts.

NBA teams can contribute 500K now under the new CBA.