ESPN Stein: Spurs have AK47 in their sights

[FkLA]

Difficult to make happen minutes wise if we bring Gino back. Can't see it working out unless Gino is done.

Let Neal walk. Give Ellis minutes at the 1 and 2 and Manu at the 2 and 3. There should be plenty of minutes to go around, might even do Manu some good to play off the ball tbh. Id keep Splitter over Gortat, think hes a better fit...especially on pick and rolls (both offensively and defensively).

[look_at_g_shred]

Ellis in SA is a 6MOY candidate imho.

[FkLA]

Would be a potent bench but Ellis won't take less money for a bench role.

Chuckers are innately selfish so he'll go to whoever pays him the most.

If he has a desire to be more than a chucker on bad teams hell come here (or Chicago). If not he wont.


Yeah, it always takes me a minute to remember that Crawford isn't horrible anymore. He used to be one of the worst chuckers in the league. :lol

Yeah, people dont seem to realize how valuable these chuckers can be on good teams if they are tamed.

[Nathan89]

Let Neal walk. Give Ellis minutes at the 1 and 2 and Manu at the 2 and 3. There should be plenty of minutes to go around, might even do Manu some good to play off the ball tbh. Id keep Splitter over Gortat, think hes a better fit...especially on pick and rolls (both offensively and defensively).

Splitter didn't do squat on the pnr offensively in the playoffs. When Kawhi and tony plays 38-40 minutes in the playoffs there wouldn't be much left for Manu and Ellis.

[FkLA]

Splitter didn't do squat on the pnr offensively in the playoffs. When Kawhi and tony plays 38-40 minutes in the playoffs there wouldn't be much left for Manu and Ellis.

I dont think they played that much in the playoffs until the last few finals games. I just think itd be nice to have an alternative when Tony and the rest of the offense are struggling. Thats what ideally Manu Shouldve been but hes gotten old.

[Spurs Brazil]

@WojYahooNBA
San Antonio is finalizing a five year, $45 million contract extension for center Tiago Splitter, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Well, I don't think we have money for AK47 now

[Buddy Holly]

@WojYahooNBA
San Antonio is finalizing a five year, $45 million contract extension for center Tiago Splitter, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Well, I don't think we have money for AK47 now

8 million plus 5 million (my guess on manu) leaves 5 million left in cap space and 8 if Bonner is amnestied.

[Kindergarten Cop]

@WojYahooNBA
San Antonio is finalizing a five year, $45 million contract extension for center Tiago Splitter, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Well, I don't think we have money for AK47 now

Way too early to tell at this point. There are so many factors that need to play out to know for sure (i.e. How much will it take to sign Manu?, Will Bonner be amnestied?, How much will AK sacrifice to sign with a Championship contender? etc)

[spurraider21]

Get Bruno in here. What can we give Manu/Ak with the new splitter deal in place?

[Bruno]

@WojYahooNBA
San Antonio is finalizing a five year, $45 million contract extension for center Tiago Splitter, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Well, I don't think we have money for AK47 now

Nope, it changes actually nothing. The key to get AK47 is Manu taking a paycut. Splitter isn't a factor in that situation.

Another possibility would be Kirilenko signing a MLE deal ($22M/4 years).

[Spurs Brazil]

Nope, it changes actually nothing. The key to get AK47 is Manu taking a paycut. Splitter isn't a factor in that situation.

Another possibility would be Kirilenko signing a MLE deal ($22M/4 years).

Thanks!

[monkeypunk]

Nope, it changes actually nothing. The key to get AK47 is Manu taking a paycut. Splitter isn't a factor in that situation.

Another possibility would be Kirilenko signing a MLE deal ($22M/4 years).

Thanks Bruno!

[Bruno]

To explain a little what I said, Splitter current cap hold (his cost against the cap) is $7.5M. So, even if Spurs and Tiago have agreed to a contract that will pay him $8M or $9M in his first season, they can just wait to officially sign him and then go against the cap.

For Ginobili, it's different because his cap hold is around $19M. Spurs can't keep his cap hold and have cap space.

[Mugen]

To explain a little what I said, Splitter current cap hold (his cost against the cap) is $7.5M. So, even if Spurs and Tiago have agreed to a contract that will pay him $8M or $9M in his first season, they can just wait to officially sign him and then go against the cap.

For Ginobili, it's different because his cap hold is around $19M. Spurs can't keep his cap hold and have cap space.

Does that mean that the Spurs have to get something done with Manu relatively quickly to go after AK?

[Juan]

To explain a little what I said, Splitter current cap hold (his cost against the cap) is $7.5M. So, even if Spurs and Tiago have agreed to a contract that will pay him $8M or $9M in his first season, they can just wait to officially sign him and then go against the cap.

For Ginobili, it's different because his cap hold is around $19M. Spurs can't keep his cap hold and have cap space.

So the Spurs can't sign any FA's until Manu is signed?

[DesignatedT]

To explain a little what I said, Splitter current cap hold (his cost against the cap) is $7.5M. So, even if Spurs and Tiago have agreed to a contract that will pay him $8M or $9M in his first season, they can just wait to officially sign him and then go against the cap.

For Ginobili, it's different because his cap hold is around $19M. Spurs can't keep his cap hold and have cap space.


I thought since Tiago's qualifying offer was 4.9M than that was his cap hold.

[Bruno]

Does that mean that the Spurs have to get something done with Manu relatively quickly to go after AK?

If Spurs don't know what kind of contract Manu will get, they can't really go after Kirilenko with more than MLE offers.


So the Spurs can't sign any FA's until Manu is signed?

Signed or renounced.

[Bruno]

I thought since Tiago's qualifying offer was 4.9M than that was his cap hold.

Nope, his cap hold is 190% of his 2012-2013 salary.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q37

[stephen jackson]

and the spurs and manu wont talk for at least a week gunna be a slow week

[DesignatedT]

Nope, his cap hold is 190% of his 2012-2013 salary.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q37

Thanks.

[lurker23]

If there's a possibility Kirilenko could take the MLE, that makes bringing Neal back more likely (and based on a report from Woj, the Spurs are trying to re-sign both Manu and Neal).

Just doing some hypothetical math in my head...$41.6 mil already on the books, plus $9mil for Splitter, $6mil for Manu, $3mil for Neal, $5.2mil for Kirilenko, equals about $64.8 million. Even adding in some minimum contracts, Spurs should be able to stay under luxury tax comfortably.

[timvp]

To explain a little what I said, Splitter current cap hold (his cost against the cap) is $7.5M. So, even if Spurs and Tiago have agreed to a contract that will pay him $8M or $9M in his first season, they can just wait to officially sign him and then go against the cap.

Are you sure? I thought once these types of agreements leak to the press, the NBA doesn't allow you to manipulate the order the contracts are signed to maximize cap space. I know some teams in the past had been busted for doing that and the NBA took away the corresponding cap space even when the teams tried to wait to make it official.

But maybe that has changed .........

[ElNono]

Manu mentioned "these days" (as in the next couple of days) on his last tweet, so I suspect something is already cooking there between the Spurs and Manu's agent Herb Rudoy.

[ElNono]

Are you sure? I thought once these types of agreements leak to the press, the NBA doesn't allow you to manipulate the order the contracts are signed to maximize cap space. I know some teams in the past had been busted for doing that and the NBA took away the corresponding cap space even when the teams tried to wait to make it official.

But maybe that has changed .........

did you get my PM?

[Bruno]

Are you sure? I thought once these types of agreements leak to the press, the NBA doesn't allow you to manipulate the order the contracts are signed to maximize cap space. I know some teams in the past had been busted for doing that and the NBA took away the corresponding cap space even when the teams tried to wait to make it official.

But maybe that has changed .........

I'm sure at 99%. The team getting caught cheating was with a first round pick counting for 100% of the rookie scale while there were a verbal agreement to pay him 120% of the scale.

[dallasmaverickslose]

Do we have enough $$ to get AK47, a swing SG/SF like Korver, and still re-sign Manu? This assumes Neal is gone btw.

[Bruno]

What could hint that Spurs are backing away from Kirilenko is Woj saying that Spurs are looking to re-sign both Ginobili and Neal. If both are kept, it will make it harder to get Kirilenko financially and makes it more complicate regarding playing time (Manu would end up playing the backup SF minutes).

[timvp]

I'm sure at 99%. The team getting caught cheating was with a first round pick counting for 100% of the rookie scale while there were a verbal agreement to pay him 120% of the scale.

Thanks. I wonder if there's an example of a team being able to wait around using the cap hold number after new contract details were already reported. I guess we might find out ... if it comes down to that.

Anyways, it probably won't matter if the Spurs can firm up a deal with Ginobili and then try to get another free agent agreement (prayingdog.jpg @ AK47) before the moratorium ends. Then on the first day, they can re-sign Ginobili, sign the FA and then sign Splitter within a few hours so that the timing shouldn't be much of a factor.

[Seventyniner]

Do we have enough $$ to get AK47, a swing SG/SF like Korver, and still re-sign Manu? This assumes Neal is gone btw.

If Korver was willing to take as little from the Spurs as he's going to take from the Nets, and Manu takes a significant pay cut, yes. However, Korver is most likely going to the Nets, and there's no telling whether or not Manu would balk at a low salary.

[DPG21920]

What could hint that Spurs are backing away from Kirilenko is Woj saying that Spurs are looking to re-sign both Ginobili and Neal. If both are kept, it will make it harder to get Kirilenko financially and makes it more complicate regarding playing time (Manu would end up playing the backup SF minutes).

Stupid.

[Juan]

What could hint that Spurs are backing away from Kirilenko is Woj saying that Spurs are looking to re-sign both Ginobili and Neal. If both are kept, it will make it harder to get Kirilenko financially and makes it more complicate regarding playing time (Manu would end up playing the backup SF minutes).

If the Spurs do indeed resign Manu and Neal would they still have the MLE contract to hand out? 4 yr 22 mil?

[K-State Spur]

Do we have enough $$ to get AK47, a swing SG/SF like Korver, and still re-sign Manu? This assumes Neal is gone btw.

I doubt it. I know Korver is rumored to the Nets for only 3M+...but that sounds like Mikhail Prokhorov paying him 3M in the same way that Minny paid Joe Smith.

At market prices, probably only room for AK + filler (not that filler can't be solid, i.e. rookie Gary Neal).

[dallasmaverickslose]

If Korver was willing to take as little from the Spurs as he's going to take from the Nets, and Manu takes a significant pay cut, yes. However, Korver is most likely going to the Nets, and there's no telling whether or not Manu would balk at a low salary.

Sigh...

[Bruno]

If the Spurs do indeed resign Manu and Neal would they still have the MLE contract to hand out? 4 yr 22 mil?
Yes, they would.

[Buddy Holly]

What could hint that Spurs are backing away from Kirilenko is Woj saying that Spurs are looking to re-sign both Ginobili and Neal. If both are kept, it will make it harder to get Kirilenko financially and makes it more complicate regarding playing time (Manu would end up playing the backup SF minutes).

Not if they amnesty Bonner.

[Bruno]

Stupid.

What I said or Spurs re-signing Neal?

[ace3g]

What could hint that Spurs are backing away from Kirilenko is Woj saying that Spurs are looking to re-sign both Ginobili and Neal. If both are kept, it will make it harder to get Kirilenko financially and makes it more complicate regarding playing time (Manu would end up playing the backup SF minutes).

Yeah that had me worried as well but Woj and Yahoo haven't really talked about Kirilenko all together, just Stein, ESPN and their "sources".

[CGD]

If Spurs don't know what kind of contract Manu will get, they can't really go after Kirilenko with more than MLE offers.



Signed or renounced.

Which begs the question, why not just renounce him since he'll either sign here or retire? It's not like the Spurs can exceed the cap to get him, right?

[UZER]

Not if they amnesty Bonner.

Thats like asking pop to remove his only good kidney.

[Joyrider]

What I said or Spurs re-signing Neal?

I think we can all agree that the idea of resigning Neal is pretty stupid.

[Mugen]

If Neal/Bonner get in the way of the Spurs signing Kirilenko.........

:pctoss

[UZER]

If Neal/Bonner get in the way of the Spurs signing Kirilenko.........

:pctoss

:lol 7 years later and bonner is STILL the thorn in the side.

[loveforthegame]

If Neal/Bonner get in the way of the Spurs signing Kirilenko.........

:pctoss

No shit. :bang

The Spurs are delusional if they think they can just bring back the same team.

[timtonymanu]

No shit. :bang

The Spurs are delusional if they think they can just bring back the same team.

Really wont surprise me. The Spurs brought back the exact same team when they were two wins away from the Finals. Imagine what they would do being one win away from the title.

[Leetonidas]

Green is more than serviceable as a defender imo. The Spurs are an elite offensive team during the regular season but they had their struggles in the playoffs when Tony sat and Manu was asked to carry the team. We need an explosive 6th man more imo, not necessarily to replace Manu but to replace his role.

true tbh this is why I kinda want the Spurs to go after Ellis. People are talking mad shit about him but replacing Neal with Ellis and giving him 30 minutes a night and reducing Manu to around 20 would be fucking perfect, dude would be a monster as a 6th man, he was a beast in GS when they had Baron, Jack, and Richardson. And he can't POSSIBLY, like literally it's not even possible, be a worse defender than Gary Neal

[Sean Cagney]

If Neal/Bonner get in the way of the Spurs signing Kirilenko.........

:pctossIt is F IN RIDICULOUS that in 2013 we are still talking about MATT BONNER :( I have had it, damn meltdown man lol. First we lose the finals and now this crap! What an offseason!

[Splits]

Ellis is going to be too expensive. You can get Jarrett Jack for $7m/year. And he can play defense.

[Texas_Ranger]

we aint getting anybody. They'll sign Manu and Neal and that'll be it. This is what happens when you get your hopes high on the Spurs free agency period.

[tesseractive]

Stupid.
Maybe. Or maybe Kirilenko is looking for way too much money, etc.

[Buddy Holly]

Why not a sign and trade for AK with Dejuan Blair going to Minny?

[tesseractive]

Ellis is going to be too expensive. You can get Jarrett Jack for $7m/year. And he can play defense.
Isn't half the league trying to sign Jarrett Jack? The interesting thing about Ellis is that his rep as a chucker might be bad enough across the league now that there's less competition and a deal to be had.

[Buddy Holly]

we aint getting anybody. They'll sign Manu and Neal and that'll be it. This is what happens when you get your hopes high on the Spurs free agency period.

Not sure if serious or moron.

[Seventyniner]

No shit. :bang

The Spurs are delusional if they think they can just bring back the same team.

I'm sick of this shit. The Spurs brought back basically the same team that won 20 straight games before losing 4 straight against the Thunder, and got within a few seconds of a title. Using the 2012-2013 season as an indictment of standing pat is frankly ludicrous.

[benstanfield]

Imagining the possible lineups on a team with Parker, Duncan, Leonard, AK, Diaw, Manu, Green, and Splitter is basically basketball porn.

[ace3g]

Why not a sign and trade for AK with Dejuan Blair going to Minny?

Well if Minn is one of those 10 teams interested in Blair, could be a possibility.

[Splits]

Isn't half the league trying to sign Jarrett Jack? The interesting thing about Ellis is that his rep as a chucker might be bad enough across the league now that there's less competition and a deal to be had.

Half the league is after Ellis and he already turned down 3/36 from MIL. Jack has talked to 3 other teams besides GSW and they are rumored to offer 3/21.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

352175951385341952

Looks like AK47 is moving on.

[TD 21]

People get too caught up in the exact amount of cap space and exceptions and instead lose focus on rotation spots. If their intention is in fact to re-sign Neal, then you can forget about not only Kirilenko, but even someone such as Delfino. Instead, expect a project to be brought in for depth at SF, such as Ingles.

[Sean Cagney]

I'm sick of this shit. The Spurs brought back basically the same team that won 20 straight games before losing 4 straight against the Thunder, and got within a few seconds of a title. Using the 2012-2013 season as an indictment of standing pat is frankly ludicrous.

They could have atleast let Neal go and BONNER, thats all I asked :( Otherwise I agree.

[spursince#99]

I wouldn't want to spend this much money on an aging player who can't create. I'd rather get a cheap but efficient backup for Kawhi, and then sign a capable scorer for the MLE who can help Manu with the bench unit.

[StoneBuddha]

Well if Minn is one of those 10 teams interested in Blair, could be a possibility.

Salaries are way too far apart in money to make this feasible.

[Mugen]

If Kahn were still around, we could have dipped DeJuan in vanilla and shipped him off with Patty/Nando for Kevin Love tbh.

[Seventyniner]

I posted this in the Think Tank, but I'll include a link here: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216143&page=2&p=6725706&viewfull=1#post6725706

Budinger's signing takes the Wolves right to the cap, I believe. This is without Kirilenko. Since Kirilenko was only with the Wolves for one year, they can't offer him anything close to what the Spurs can ($7-8M?).

Are there any other suitors for Kirilenko?

[Jdspur20]

It's very possible that AK47 could accept the MLE if offered. If he wanted money he would have stayed in Minn.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

People get too caught up in the exact amount of cap space and exceptions and instead lose focus on rotation spots. If their intention is in fact to re-sign Neal, then you can forget about not only Kirilenko, but even someone such as Delfino. Instead, expect a project to be brought in for depth at SF, such as Ingles.

But AK47 works in rotation with Neal being returned. Neal can only play in a guard spot and can (barely) defend one spot. AK47 fits in the rotation as both a small-ball 4 and a back-up 3. Neal clogs up the guard spots (bad news for CoJo/NDC/Mills) but wouldn't affect Kirilenko's worth to us much.

[cd98]

IMHO, Neal should come very cheap. He has shot well in years past, but this year seemed to struggle more than usual (may have been the injuries). Anyway, I can't see anyone paying him big dollars, so hopefully if we do resign him, he will come cheap. That said, I thought we had adequate shooting. My beef with Neal is that is all he can do. He's weak on the handle and defense, which means if he's not making shots, he's worthless.

[TD 21]

But AK47 works in rotation with Neal being returned. Neal can only play in a guard spot and can (barely) defend one spot. AK47 fits in the rotation as both a small-ball 4 and a back-up 3. Neal clogs up the guard spots (bad news for CoJo/NDC/Mills) but wouldn't affect Kirilenko's worth to us much.

No, he wouldn't. If Neal is re-signed, then they'll have committed to the same rotation from last season, which means Ginobili/Green will be the backup SF. They clearly gave up on the Neal as a PG experiment last season.

JdSpur20, zero chance Kirilenko accepts the MLE. He turned down $10M, so that he could get a long term contract at something at least close to that number.

[lurker23]

People get too caught up in the exact amount of cap space and exceptions and instead lose focus on rotation spots. If their intention is in fact to re-sign Neal, then you can forget about not only Kirilenko, but even someone such as Delfino. Instead, expect a project to be brought in for depth at SF, such as Ingles.

I'm not sure I understand how re-signing Neal affects the playing time Kirilenko would get. How does whoever is getting the spot minutes at 1/2 affect who you can play rotation minutes at 3/4?

[Arcadian]

The Spurs don't need anything to "put them over the top." They're already at the top. They led in the 4th quarter (maybe, or late 3rd quarter) of Game 7 of the NBA Finals. That's as good as you can be without actually winning the championship.

They just need to do the same thing they did this year...but just play a little better for 1-2 minutes. That's our championship formula right there. :lol

[Mugen]

I could easily see Dallas throwing stupid money at AK when they lose out on Howard and their other targets.

[lurker23]

No, he wouldn't. If Neal is re-signed, then they'll have committed to the same rotation from last season, which means Ginobili/Green will be the backup SF. They clearly gave up on the Neal as a PG experiment last season.



If you think about the regular season rotation, Kirilenko would be taking minutes that previously went to Stephen Jackson and perhaps Matt Bonner.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

...and Manu.

[objective]

I could easily see Dallas throwing stupid money at AK when they lose out on Howard and their other targets.

Yeah, that seems more likely than AK signing with the Spurs. Atlanta too, they'll have to get to the salary floor also.

And I agree with those who think that Neal coming back hinders an AK signing on that end.

Bringing back the same old dudes . . . no thanks. That's what killed the Spurs in 08, being so desperate to keep the band together that they purposely refused to improve the roster. The logic that "the spurs had game 6 won and went to 7! And won 20 straight the year before" as justification for stagnation while other teams are getting better is a path toward failure.

[SpursRock20]

Bringing back the same old dudes . . . no thanks. That's what killed the Spurs in 08, being so desperate to keep the band together that they purposely refused to improve the roster. The logic that "the spurs had game 6 won and went to 7! And won 20 straight the year before" as justification for stagnation while other teams are getting better is a path toward failure.

Thank you. Also, the Spurs had a fair bit of help getting to the Finals last year. Not to mention, we all were miraculously healthy in the playoffs for the first time in a long time. It is not a given that this will happen again.

[DPG21920]

What I said or Spurs re-signing Neal?

Sorry, :lol. The Neal part.

[SpursSerb]

Hoppefully the other teams being agressive in the market,will make the Spurs react.No doubt that the western conference will be much stronger next season.Spurs need to move.

[timvp]

Bringing back the same old dudes . . . no thanks. That's what killed the Spurs in 08

It worked last summer, minus one free throw or rebound.

But yeah, I agree that the Spurs need to use their salary cap flexibility to add another solid piece to the rotation.

Re-signing Ginobili and Neal to end the offseason would definitely be disappointing.

Then again, it all comes down to how little Manu is willing to take ........

[objective]

It worked last summer, minus one free throw or rebound.

But yeah, I agree that the Spurs need to use their salary cap flexibility to add another solid piece to the rotation.

Re-signing Ginobili and Neal to end the offseason would definitely be disappointing.

Then again, it all comes down to how little Manu is willing to take ........

Different situation. Pop still had the 'start Tiago' card to go to for improvement. That was a big deal.

There's no more cards like that in the deck. Leonard is starting. Tiago is starting. Green is entrenched as a starter. Even with Leonard getting more touches and being a bigger part in the offense, there is a serious lid on their ceiling with this roster as is.

[yavozerb]

Different situation. Pop still had the 'start Tiago' card to go to for improvement. That was a big deal.

There's no more cards like that in the deck. Leonard is starting. Tiago is starting. Green is entrenched as a starter. Even with Leonard getting more touches and being a bigger part in the offense, there is a serious lid on their ceiling with this roster as is.

You dont think Leonard will be any better than last season? Tiago has gotten better with each passing season, you do not think this continues? I will gladly take the "current lid" you speak of cause it should be able to get them deep into the playoffs next season but I still think this team can get better with current players ans a sprinkle of lesser FA's..

[Chinook]

It worked last summer, minus one free throw or rebound.

But yeah, I agree that the Spurs need to use their salary cap flexibility to add another solid piece to the rotation.

Re-signing Ginobili and Neal to end the offseason would definitely be disappointing.

Then again, it all comes down to how little Manu is willing to take ........

Especially while stashing their pick.

But it wouldn't be all bad. Depending on the nature of their deals, the Spurs could still have a bit of cap space next summer (even without retirements). The cap is expected to go up to $62 Million, and the team has another $11 Million in expiring deals.

[Chinook]

Different situation. Pop still had the 'start Tiago' card to go to for improvement. That was a big deal.

There's no more cards like that in the deck. Leonard is starting. Tiago is starting. Green is entrenched as a starter. Even with Leonard getting more touches and being a bigger part in the offense, there is a serious lid on their ceiling with this roster as is.

Indeed there is: Winning the championship.

[TD 21]

I'm not sure I understand how re-signing Neal affects the playing time Kirilenko would get. How does whoever is getting the spot minutes at 1/2 affect who you can play rotation minutes at 3/4?

Because if Neal is getting some of the backup SG minutes, then that means Ginobili and Green will be splitting the backup SF minutes. Remember, Leonard's minutes are going to soar next season and Kirilenko is too good to play something like 20-25 mpg backing up both forward spots. What they could (and probably would) do is start him at PF and bring Splitter off the bench. Of course, he'd have to be on board with becoming primarily a PF.

But the only way they could even make a legitimate offer at at this point is if they amnesty Bonner. Presuming they re-sign Ginobili and Neal for $8-9M and Splitter's starting salary is $9M (which it may not be, but either way, it's not going to be drastically lower), they could offer him approximately $7.5-8.5M.

[SpursSerb]

Hopefully somebody will throw an offer to Neal.

[spursince#99]

A lot of you guys are forgetting about OKC.

[objective]

You dont think Leonard will be any better than last season? Tiago has gotten better with each passing season, you do not think this continues? I will gladly take the "current lid" you speak of cause it should be able to get them deep into the playoffs next season but I still think this team can get better with current players ans a sprinkle of lesser FA's..

I think Leonard will be better, but less of a jump from year 2 to 3 compared with year 1 to 2. He also has injury issues which could keep him from making a jump. Tiago is who he is at his age. I like him, so I'm not knocking him. He was finally used right, he didn't actually improve. He would have been the same year 1 if given enough minutes.

I am of the mindset that last year was last year. If every other team keeps the same roster, then hey, the Spurs are as good a bet as any to come out of the west. But the rest of the teams are trying to get better to be better than the Spurs. Spurs have to adjust to. A 'sprinkle' of lesser free agents to get DNP-CDs as 11th and 12th men doesn't make the Spurs better. Only a rotation player can make that kind of impact. A new rotation player. Maybe Joseph or De Colo get so much better they become like a new player, but I doubt it.

[timvp]

Different situation. Pop still had the 'start Tiago' card to go to for improvement. That was a big deal.

There's no more cards like that in the deck. Leonard is starting. Tiago is starting. Green is entrenched as a starter. Even with Leonard getting more touches and being a bigger part in the offense, there is a serious lid on their ceiling with this roster as is.

A lid that should have won the championship, tbh. Plus, Leonard, Green, Splitter and CJ should all be better.

The Heat are in a similar boat and might even be worse off since it looks like Wade is about to fall off a cliff and they don't have any up-and-coming players.

But yes, I still think the Spurs need to add another quality rotation piece.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Hopefully somebody will throw an offer to Neal.

Dunno why we'd want to hope this. If he receives no offers we get him for $1.1m right? That's a no-brainer.
If he does get offers then I probably wouldn't keep them but I'd be happy with him going unfancied.

[tesseractive]

A lot of you guys are forgetting about OKC.
Nobody's seen what they can do in the playoffs at full strength since they lost Harden. They're definitely a good team, but I think it's way to soon to declare that we're doomed.

[tesseractive]

It's very possible that AK47 could accept the MLE if offered. If he wanted money he would have stayed in Minn.
He wanted more years. My guess is that he's looking for at least 3 years/$21M, and probably more.

[spurraider21]

Has there been anything reported on the Kirilenko front since Stein's piece yesterday? Have any other teams been linked to him? With Buddinger re-upping with the Wolves, I imagine that door is shut. Who'se our competition rumored to be in the AK47 sweepstakes?

[lurker23]

Because if Neal is getting some of the backup SG minutes, then that means Ginobili and Green will be splitting the backup SF minutes. Remember, Leonard's minutes are going to soar next season and Kirilenko is too good to play something like 20-25 mpg backing up both forward spots. What they could (and probably would) do is start him at PF and bring Splitter off the bench. Of course, he'd have to be on board with becoming primarily a PF.

But the only way they could even make a legitimate offer at at this point is if they amnesty Bonner. Presuming they re-sign Ginobili and Neal for $8-9M and Splitter's starting salary is $9M (which it may not be, but either way, it's not going to be drastically lower), they could offer him approximately $7.5-8.5M.

I agree with your financial reasoning, that to realistically get Kirilenko they need to either let Neal go or amnesty Bonner. I think there's an outside chance he'd take that 4 year/$22mil full MLE, but it's doubtful considering he'll likely have other suitors.

However, I still disagree with your rotation assessment. I think 25 mpg backing up both forward spots is exactly what they're offering Kirilenko.

[SpursRock20]

Has there been anything reported on the Kirilenko front since Stein's piece yesterday? Have any other teams been linked to him? With Buddinger re-upping with the Wolves, I imagine that door is shut. Who'se our competition rumored to be in the AK47 sweepstakes?
Haven't heard too much. Here's a quote from him though: According to the translation at Hoopshype.com, Kirilenko said, "I don't want to confine myself in any way. But in general, do you want to go to a team where LeBron James is playing at your position? Or to Oklahoma with Kevin Durant? That almost certainly means quietly ending your career. I still feel I'm capable of making a real contribution." (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-free-agency-s070113,0,6636549.story)

[timvp]

Here's why I think AK47 is still in play: If you're the Spurs and Portland is reportedly offering Splitter a $36M over 4-year deal, why wouldn't you just call their bluff and then match if the Blazers actually follow through?

The most logically reason why the Spurs wouldn't wait out Splitter's possible offer from the Blazers is to avoid Portland frontloading the deal ... which could then hurt San Antonio's chances of squeezing in another big salary this summer.

The timing of Splitter's deal tells me the Spurs are going to do more than just stand pat. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to be in a rush.

[spurraider21]

Here's why I think AK47 is still in play: If you're the Spurs and Portland is reportedly offering Splitter a $36M over 4-year deal, why wouldn't you just call their bluff and then match if the Blazers actually follow through?

The most logically reason why the Spurs wouldn't wait out Splitter's possible offer from the Blazers is to avoid Portland frontloading the deal ... which could then hurt San Antonio's chances of squeezing in another big salary this summer.

The timing of Splitter's deal tells me the Spurs are going to do more than just stand pat. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to be in a rush.

Losers of the Dwight Howard sweepstakes (between Atlanta, Dallas, Houston) could make a desperation play for Splitter after striking out on Kemp. With this in mind, its possible the Spurs wanted to lock up Splitter before it got to that point. I do hope you're right though. AK would be a perfect fit here

[benefactor]

If Kahn were still around, we could have dipped DeJuan in vanilla and shipped him off with Patty/Nando for Kevin Love tbh.
:lol

[spursince#99]

Nobody's seen what they can do in the playoffs at full strength since they lost Harden. They're definitely a good team, but I think it's way to soon to declare that we're doomed.


I'm not saying we're doomed, but they're definitely not a pushover like some posters in here seem to think.

[montgod]

Wolves just re-signed Budinger for 16mill, might help Spurs cause in signing AK.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I really hope we get Kirilenko. Good defensive instincts + the interior defense might not go to shit if he's playing minutes when Tiago is the only big. And it looks like Kirilenko might not re-sign with the Wolves.

[rascal]

I don't want AK47.
I expect he will be on the Spurs next year.

[TD 21]

I agree with your financial reasoning, that to realistically get Kirilenko they need to either let Neal go or amnesty Bonner. I think there's an outside chance he'd take that 4 year/$22mil full MLE, but it's doubtful considering he'll likely have other suitors.

However, I still disagree with your rotation assessment. I think 25 mpg backing up both forward spots is exactly what they're offering Kirilenko.

I'll say this: If the Spurs can make an offer at least close to whatever the biggest offer he receives is, then as long as he's on board with playing a lot at PF, I think he'll sign with them.

I doubt it. It's not just the caliber of player he is, it's that the big rotation would work much better with him starting.

Though he'd struggle in a handful of match-ups, for the most part, I think they could get away with him starting at PF and if they got into a playoff series with a team where they felt they couldn't, then they could always start Splitter.

[Mugen]

i think it's going to be hard to lure AK here without the promise of a starting spot. He's gonna look at the roster and realize that his only minutes are going to be behind Kawhi and as a smallball 4 (where he'd compete with Boris).

If somebody offers him comparable money with a starting spot like ATL, POR, or Dallas then i think he signs elsewhere.

As much as I want him here, i don't think he's at the point in his career where he's happy with a backup role and 20-25 mins a game tbh.

[spurraider21]

i think it's going to be hard to lure AK here without the promise of a starting spot. He's gonna look at the roster and realize that his only minutes are going to be behind Kawhi and as a smallball 4 (where he'd compete with Boris).

If somebody offers him comparable money with a starting spot like ATL, POR, or Dallas then i think he signs elsewhere.

As much as I want him here, i don't think he's at the point in his career where he's happy with a backup role and 20-25 mins a game tbh.

yeah but blair will walk and if we amnesty bonner that frees up an additional 45 seconds per game at LEAST

[spursince#99]

i think it's going to be hard to lure AK here without the promise of a starting spot. He's gonna look at the roster and realize that his only minutes are going to be behind Kawhi and as a smallball 4 (where he'd compete with Boris).

If somebody offers him comparable money with a starting spot like ATL, POR, or Dallas then i think he signs elsewhere.

As much as I want him here, i don't think he's at the point in his career where he's happy with a backup role and 20-25 mins a game tbh.


Couldn't have worded it any better.

[Sean Cagney]

I'm not saying we're doomed, but they're definitely not a pushover like some posters in here seem to think.

They are definitely not a pushover, some posters go too far at times.

[lurker23]

I can definitely see from Kirilenko's perspective why he would want to be a starter, but I don't see from the Spurs perspective why they'd offer that. The Leonard/Duncan/Splitter front line proved to be very effective last year; all 3 of those guys are back, so I don't see any reason why they'd mess with that chemistry. While I think 25 mpg would be a realistic role if they bring in a 3/4 backup, he would have opportunities to get heavier minutes at times throughout the season, especially as Pop continues to limit Duncan's minutes and games played.

[spurraider21]

I can definitely see from Kirilenko's perspective why he would want to be a starter, but I don't see from the Spurs perspective why they'd offer that. The Leonard/Duncan/Splitter front line proved to be very effective last year; all 3 of those guys are back, so I don't see any reason why they'd mess with that chemistry. While I think 25 mpg would be a realistic role if they bring in a 3/4 backup, he would have opportunities to get heavier minutes at times throughout the season, especially as Pop continues to limit Duncan's minutes and games played.

The Tim/Tiago combo didn't spend much time together against Golden State or Miami, and I don't think they would see much time together in a hypothetical playoff matchup against OKC either. Kirilenko would be in line for huge minutes in such matchups

[ducks]

I don't want AK47.
I expect he will be on the Spurs next year.

why
I know you do not want for years
You want alrdidge!
spurs could sign ak47 and trade kl, green for him

[ducks]

spurs do not promise starting jobs
stephen jackson wanted the promise pop said NO

[slick'81]

Hopfully AK will take around
8 mil

[BackHome]

He could easily get tons of minutes based on Manu's health issues I could see Manu maybe playing 30 to forty games this year. At this point replace Bonner with AK is a huge upgrade in my book and he can play three positons SG/SF/PF and we know how pop loves playing small ball.

Second Unit:
PG- CoJo, Nando, Mills
SG- Manu, Nando, AK
SF- AK,
PF - Diaw, AK
C- Baynes

In a perfect world I would let Neal walk and Amenesty or trade Bonner, and try to package Nando in a trade.

[Big Empty]

Duncan
AK47
Leonard
Green
Parker

That would be an excellent small ball group against the Heat should we meet them again. Substitiude Diaw and Gino or another gaurd and its a great rotation

[coyotes_geek]

Hopefully somebody will throw an offer to Neal.

Someone will. With the good teams snatching up the bigger name guys like Korver and Reddick, some scrub team in need of a shooter will come along and throw an offer Neal's way.

[T Park]

Rascal expects the spurs to get stars for nothing.

His act grew tired 9 years ago.

3 years 21 million gets AK47 I think and that IMO with an improving Joseph and others really makes them deadly.

[spursince#99]

Rascal expects the spurs to get stars for nothing.

His act grew tired 9 years ago.

3 years 21 million gets AK47 I think and that IMO with an improving Joseph and others really makes them deadly.

No.

[spursince#99]

A lid that should have won the championship, tbh. Plus, Leonard, Green, Splitter and CJ should all be better.

The Heat are in a similar boat and might even be worse off since it looks like Wade is about to fall off a cliff and they don't have any up-and-coming players.

But yes, I still think the Spurs need to add another quality rotation piece.


Or 2.

[TD 21]

I can definitely see from Kirilenko's perspective why he would want to be a starter, but I don't see from the Spurs perspective why they'd offer that. The Leonard/Duncan/Splitter front line proved to be very effective last year; all 3 of those guys are back, so I don't see any reason why they'd mess with that chemistry. While I think 25 mpg would be a realistic role if they bring in a 3/4 backup, he would have opportunities to get heavier minutes at times throughout the season, especially as Pop continues to limit Duncan's minutes and games played.

Because the reality is the big rotation still doesn't really work; they just went with it because it was the best they could do.

Starting Kirilenko would not only improve the spacing (he's not much of a shooter, but unlike Splitter, he can actually make a shot outside of the paint), but also the play making. He's a high IQ player, that's used to playing in a structured (flex) system. Like Diaw, he'd likely be a seamless fit.

Bringing Splitter off the bench would insure that they'd always have a rim protector (he's not much of one, but he sure beats Diaw masquerading as a backup center) in at all times and it would make it easier to limit Duncan's minutes throughout the regular season.

The shooting wouldn't be as good without Bonner, but the defense would challenge for best in the league.

[spurraider21]

He could easily get tons of minutes based on Manu's health issues I could see Manu maybe playing 30 to forty games this year. At this point replace Bonner with AK is a huge upgrade in my book and he can play three positons SG/SF/PF and we know how pop loves playing small ball.

Second Unit:
PG- CoJo, Nando, Mills
SG- Manu, Nando, AK
SF- AK,
PF - Diaw, AK
C- Baynes

In a perfect world I would let Neal walk and Amenesty or trade Bonner, and try to package Nando in a trade.

AK absolutely cannot play the 2

[spurraider21]

Because the reality is the big rotation still doesn't really work; they just went with it because it was the best they could do.

Starting Kirilenko would not only improve the spacing (he's not much of a shooter, but unlike Splitter, he can actually make a shot outside of the paint), but also the play making. He's a high IQ player, that's used to playing in a structured (flex) system. Like Diaw, he'd likely be a seamless fit.

Bringing Splitter off the bench would insure that they'd always have a rim protector (he's not much of one, but he sure beats Diaw masquerading as a backup center) in at all times and it would make it easier to limit Duncan's minutes throughout the regular season.

The shooting wouldn't be as good without Bonner, but the defense would challenge for best in the league.
i doubt they just gave Splitter a 36 million dollar contract with the intention of bringing him off the bench

[lurker23]

Because the reality is the big rotation still doesn't really work; they just went with it because it was the best they could do.

Starting Kirilenko would not only improve the spacing (he's not much of a shooter, but unlike Splitter, he can actually make a shot outside of the paint), but also the play making. He's a high IQ player, that's used to playing in a structured (flex) system. Like Diaw, he'd likely be a seamless fit.

Bringing Splitter off the bench would insure that they'd always have a rim protector (he's not much of one, but he sure beats Diaw masquerading as a backup center) in at all times and it would make it easier to limit Duncan's minutes throughout the regular season.

The shooting wouldn't be as good without Bonner, but the defense would challenge for best in the league.

Well, all of this said, I think we sometimes make too much about who starts games. Throughout the course of the game, many combinations will get some time together (including Leonard/Kirilenko/Duncan), and that combination would see increasing time if it was effective. I could definitely see that lineup being a great close-out group against teams who play a little smaller.

[Knoxxx]

By my math minus Neal and absent a Bonner amnesty we only have $9 million left, 11 players signed at $49.5 million vs. a cap of $58.5 million.

That leaves $9 million or $13 million if we did amnesty Bonner without signing Manu.

Only way we sign AK is by having Manu sign for the cap exception of $2.7 million, or amnesty Bonner then maybe something like AK $8 million Manu $5 million.

I don't know if we could use the cap exception on Neal still or a post-amnesty Bonner (least likely).

I think anything under $ 8 million is unlikely for AK given he declined $10 million, but then again whatever the market will bear is the answer there, along with his willingness to join the best crew of NBA internationals in its drive for five ring quest after being inches away.

For the inevitable poster saying we can use the mid-level exceptiion the answer is no, Spurs just like all teams under the cap have no MLE this year.

[FkLA]

AK47 wont solve the issue of not having another playmaking ballhandler when Tony is resting or struggling. Besides isnt his skillset kinda redundant given that we have Kawhi who can also play smallball PF? We need an elite 6th man imo. Even last season I wouldve been all for this but with the emergence of Kawhi and Green I don't think this team is as desperate for length like they were in past seasons.

[Knoxxx]

AK47 wont solve the issue of not having another playmaking ballhandler when Tony is resting or struggling. Besides isnt his skillset kinda redundant given that we have Kawhi who can also play smallball PF? We need an elite 6th man imo.

I think the idea was this is a "power" small ball lineup where we can use the length of AK and Kawhi to smother James and Wade while not letting James beat us up so much on the glass.

If we could get someone like Jack and AK I'd be all for it, but looks to me like the $ just aren't quite there for that after $8 million going to Splitter.

[T Park]

No.


No one asked you. Move along kiddo.

[TD 21]

i doubt they just gave Splitter a 36 million dollar contract with the intention of bringing him off the bench

Why not? Gibson and Anderson are examples of players who signed similar contracts to be third bigs.

Besides, this would only be for two years, until Duncan retires and in the meantime, we all know they'd like to limit Duncan's minutes in the regular season as much as they can. Plus, they'd still play together some, so he'd still get 20-25 mpg. Based on what we know about Splitter, I don't think he'd care.

lurker23, agreed that it's not necessarily about starting (though he might not be okay with coming off the bench), but about what's best for the team. It's just that, in this case, him starting would be what's best for the team.

[montgod]

AK47 wont solve the issue of not having another playmaking ballhandler when Tony is resting or struggling. Besides isnt his skillset kinda redundant given that we have Kawhi who can also play smallball PF? We need an elite 6th man imo. Even last season I wouldve been all for this but with the emergence of Kawhi and Green I don't think this team is as desperate for length like they were in past seasons.

What about Billips for minimum IF healthy?

[ducks]

Rascal expects the spurs to get stars for nothing.

His act grew tired 9 years ago.

3 years 21 million gets AK47 I think and that IMO with an improving Joseph and others really makes them deadly.
under 30 and can not be white team is to white now

[T Park]

AK47 wont solve the issue of not having another playmaking ballhandler when Tony is resting or struggling. Besides isnt his skillset kinda redundant given that we have Kawhi who can also play smallball PF? We need an elite 6th man imo. Even last season I wouldve been all for this but with the emergence of Kawhi and Green I don't think this team is as desperate for length like they were in past seasons.

Awesome, who?

Ak47 allows you to keep Leonard at SF and Kirilenko can guard a team's second best scorer.

[spurraider21]

AK47 wont solve the issue of not having another playmaking ballhandler when Tony is resting or struggling. Besides isnt his skillset kinda redundant given that we have Kawhi who can also play smallball PF? We need an elite 6th man imo. Even last season I wouldve been all for this but with the emergence of Kawhi and Green I don't think this team is as desperate for length like they were in past seasons.

its a great addition nonetheless. also should count on the development of CoJo, who is going to be with the team for a full year, and not bouncing around the d-league until 1 month before the playoffs. also the off chance of nando showing something. heck, we could throw the vets minimum at washed up billups if it makes ya'll feel better. better than throwing 7 million at jarret freaking jack

[lurker23]

For the inevitable poster saying we can use the mid-level exceptiion the answer is no, Spurs just like all teams under the cap have no MLE this year.

If the Spurs don't use any cap space (e.g.- eat up all their cap space using their Bird Rights on Splitter, Manu, and Gary Neal), then they would be able to use the MLE.

[FkLA]

Its not a bad signing if we get him I just think we have a bigger need. I dont feel like we lost this season because we lacked size or length, we lost bc Manu wasnt the elite 6th man we needed him to be. He should be brought back but not for that role imo, someone else needs to be our shower sub. Billups isn't much more than a game manager who can hit some 3s at this point, he cant be relied upon to be a playmaker.

[spurraider21]

Its not a bad signing if we get him I just think we have a bigger need. I dont feel like we lost this season because we lacked size or length, we lost bc Manu wasnt the elite 6th man we needed him to be. He should be brought back but not for that role imo, someone else needs to be our shower sub.
i think our lack of rim protection and interior D with Duncan out was pretty noticeable too. splitter had his moments, but eh

[ducks]

ak47 can be the 6 man that manu was
manu can be a role player
ak47 will save tp energy

[Sean Cagney]

AK47 wont solve the issue of not having another playmaking ballhandler when Tony is resting or struggling. Besides isnt his skillset kinda redundant given that we have Kawhi who can also play smallball PF? We need an elite 6th man imo. Even last season I wouldve been all for this but with the emergence of Kawhi and Green I don't think this team is as desperate for length like they were in past seasons.

^^^^^^^^^ This.

[Knoxxx]

If the Spurs don't use any cap space (e.g.- eat up all their cap space using their Bird Rights on Splitter, Manu, and Gary Neal), then they would be able to use the MLE.

Well that would be (good) news to me, as over where Bruno frequents as our resident expert I see only talk of the $2.6 million or so mini cap exception. In other words, I hope you are correct, but am leery as that did not seem to be the outlook discussed over in the Think Tank.

[cjw]

By my math minus Neal and absent a Bonner amnesty we only have $9 million left, 11 players signed at $49.5 million vs. a cap of $58.5 million.

That leaves $9 million or $13 million if we did amnesty Bonner without signing Manu.

Only way we sign AK is by having Manu sign for the cap exception of $2.7 million, or amnesty Bonner then maybe something like AK $8 million Manu $5 million.

I don't know if we could use the cap exception on Neal still or a post-amnesty Bonner (least likely).

I think anything under $ 8 million is unlikely for AK given he declined $10 million, but then again whatever the market will bear is the answer there, along with his willingness to join the best crew of NBA internationals in its drive for five ring quest after being inches away.

For the inevitable poster saying we can use the mid-level exceptiion the answer is no, Spurs just like all teams under the cap have no MLE this year.


I believe there is a mid-level, just a much smaller one given we're under the cap. From ESPN after the lockout: "Teams with cap room (therefore losing their midlevel exception) get a new midlevel that is for two years and starts at $2.5 million (growing 3 percent annually)."

[spursince#99]

No one asked you. Move along kiddo.


3 years 21M does not get AK47. Stop the pipe dreams before you get disappointed little one.

[spursince#99]

AK47 wont solve the issue of not having another playmaking ballhandler when Tony is resting or struggling. Besides isnt his skillset kinda redundant given that we have Kawhi who can also play smallball PF? We need an elite 6th man imo. Even last season I wouldve been all for this but with the emergence of Kawhi and Green I don't think this team is as desperate for length like they were in past seasons.


If more people would understand this, they wouldn't be welcoming so much disappointment when AK47 signs elsewhere.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Its not a bad signing if we get him I just think we have a bigger need. I dont feel like we lost this season because we lacked size or length, we lost bc Manu wasnt the elite 6th man we needed him to be. He should be brought back but not for that role imo, someone else needs to be our shower sub. Billups isn't much more than a game manager who can hit some 3s at this point, he cant be relied upon to be a playmaker.

You saw hints of it in the postseason, but the issue is going to have to be forced: Kawhi will be our new playmaker next year. He took James off the dribble a couple of times. I'm thinking they'll be having him run / initiate the offense much of the preseason and during the regular season to get him, and the rest of the team, comfortable with it.

[Knoxxx]

I believe there is a mid-level, just a much smaller one given we're under the cap. From ESPN after the lockout: "Teams with cap room (therefore losing their midlevel exception) get a new midlevel that is for two years and starts at $2.5 million (growing 3 percent annually)."

Right, the real MLE is $5 million and we get one a little over half that. Could be a great asset if for example it brings back Manu, but the difference in free agent you can get for the two different amount could be quite large. We could probably get a quality free agent for the full MLE who wanted a ring, much less likely with the min-MLE.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Its not a bad signing if we get him I just think we have a bigger need. I dont feel like we lost this season because we lacked size or length, we lost bc Manu wasnt the elite 6th man we needed him to be. He should be brought back but not for that role imo, someone else needs to be our shower sub. Billups isn't much more than a game manager who can hit some 3s at this point, he cant be relied upon to be a playmaker.

You saw hints of it in the postseason, but the issue is going to have to be forced: Kawhi will be our new playmaker next year. He took James off the dribble a couple of times. I'm thinking they'll be having him run / initiate the offense much of the preseason and during the regular season to get him, and the rest of the team, comfortable with it.

[Vic Petro]

AK47 wont solve the issue of not having another playmaking ballhandler when Tony is resting or struggling. Besides isnt his skillset kinda redundant given that we have Kawhi who can also play smallball PF? We need an elite 6th man imo. Even last season I wouldve been all for this but with the emergence of Kawhi and Green I don't think this team is as desperate for length like they were in past seasons.

Honestly in terms of more production out of the back court, it has to be Nando. The team isn't going to sign a difference making guard, so the FO has to be hoping that moving from a spot up shooter in Neal to more of a P&R creator in Nando will do the trick. Neal is deadly if someone else is drawing double teams. Nando's value is creating for teammates. Frankly I'm skeptical that Nando can fill the role, but I don't see a realistic alternative here.

[Knoxxx]

You saw hints of it in the postseason, but the issue is going to have to be forced: Kawhi will be our new playmaker next year. He took James off the dribble a couple of times. I'm thinking they'll be having him run / initiate the offense much of the preseason and during the regular season to get him, and the rest of the team, comfortable with it.

One simple fact if we want to beat the Heat is we need more players that can stay on the floor with them. So far we have not addressed that, though there is more than one way to skin that cat.

Unfortunately, if we don't skin that cat I don't see us getting over the "Heat Hump." Make no mistake, the Heat will mostly likely be the Eastern Conf. rep. in the Finals once again. No move(s) to match up with the Heat better will be a hugely dissappointing offseason.

[spurraider21]

3 years 21M does not get AK47. Stop the pipe dreams before you get disappointed little one.

it actually might, tbh. he turned down 1 year 10 mil. after this year, he probably wasn't going to get much more than 2 years 11 mil anyway considering he'd be 33

[Vic Petro]

One simple fact if we want to beat the Heat is we need more players that can stay on the floor with them. So far we have not addressed that, though there is more than one way to skin that cat.

Unfortunately, if we don't skin that cat I don't see us getting over the "Heat Hump." Make no mistake, the Heat will mostly likely be the Eastern Conf. rep. in the Finals once again. No move(s) to match up with the Heat better will be a hugely dissappointing offseason.

I do think Kirilenko would help tremendously against the Heat. I also wouldn't write them into the NBA Finals again next season. It's extremely rare for a team to make 4 NBA Finals in row. Extremely rare. A rag tag Chicago team gave them hell...Chicago will be better, Miami will likely be worse. The Heat aren't any sort of given imo

[spurraider21]

I do think Kirilenko would help tremendously against the Heat. I also wouldn't write them into the NBA Finals again next season. It's extremely rare for a team to make 4 NBA Finals in row. Extremely rare. A rag tag Chicago team gave them hell...Chicago will be better, Miami will likely be worse. The Heat aren't any sort of given imo

Kirilenko would also help against OKC, Clips, Grizzlies

[Knoxxx]

it actually might, tbh. he turned down 1 year 10 mil. after this year, he probably wasn't going to get much more than 2 years 11 mil anyway considering he'd be 33

All things considered AK seems a good fit with our international all star team. 3 years $21 million is not ridiculous at all if he wants to win and especially as mentioned for his age. It should be close enough to make the deal work if both parties are interested.

[FireMicoHalili]

With the Splitter signing going above expectations, maybe Manu resigns for around $7M (let's just assume the worst here). We have about $4M. Might as well use that to re-sign someone.

Maybe Kirilenko bites for the MLE like Ron Artest did? With regard to finances, it's a lopsided deal, but Spurs can offer a shot at the title (K) and a long-term deal of maybe up to three years.

[Knoxxx]

I do think Kirilenko would help tremendously against the Heat. I also wouldn't write them into the NBA Finals again next season. It's extremely rare for a team to make 4 NBA Finals in row. Extremely rare. A rag tag Chicago team gave them hell...Chicago will be better, Miami will likely be worse. The Heat aren't any sort of given imo

The Heat are heavy favorites to win the championship again, not just make the Finals. If Wade gets his knee right they will be there.

[TheGoldStandard]

The Heat are heavy favorites to win the championship again, not just make the Finals. If Wade gets his knee right they will be there.

He'll be in Germany in the offseason to get that platelet work.

[spurraider21]

With the Splitter signing going above expectations, maybe Manu resigns for around $7M (let's just assume the worst here). We have about $4M. Might as well use that to re-sign someone.

Maybe Kirilenko bites for the MLE like Ron Artest did? With regard to finances, it's a lopsided deal, but Spurs can offer a shot at the title (K) and a long-term deal of maybe up to three years.

the MLE was a lot bigger back then

[spursince#99]

No but serious question. What's the difference between him and Splitter besides being slightly more mobile?

[Vic Petro]

The Heat are heavy favorites to win the championship again, not just make the Finals. If Wade gets his knee right they will be there.

Of course they are the favorites, but history is against them, that's all I'm saying. Chicago and Indiana will be tough for them again. And players rarely get healthier after 30. Wade clearly looks like a declining player.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Here's why I think AK47 is still in play: If you're the Spurs and Portland is reportedly offering Splitter a $36M over 4-year deal, why wouldn't you just call their bluff and then match if the Blazers actually follow through?

The most logically reason why the Spurs wouldn't wait out Splitter's possible offer from the Blazers is to avoid Portland frontloading the deal ... which could then hurt San Antonio's chances of squeezing in another big salary this summer.

The timing of Splitter's deal tells me the Spurs are going to do more than just stand pat. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to be in a rush.

That's true. Spurs have alot of options at this point. They can still do a sign and trade for someone like Ellis. Seriously, if the deals Reddick and Martin are the base for 2 tier SGs, then Ellis price just dropped to 7 mil a year. Bucks at this point need a backup PF and SG, and the Spurs could trade Bonner and Neal and throw in a future 1st as well.

Spurs just need to resign Neal, Blair and Manu and push themselves over the cap so that the MLE and LLE take effect for them. They can turn around and trade Bonner and Neal to the Bucks for Ellis and then offer AK47 the full MLE on a 3 year deal. Deal Blair to Atl for peanuts or rights to one of their Euros that will never come over at this point.

The Spurs worked their cap last year so that they had the Full MLE and LLE and where able to be right under the Luxury Tax. I am sure they are devising the same plan for this offseason as well. It will be interesting to see what moves they have up their sleeves within the next week.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

No but serious question. What's the difference between him and Splitter besides being slightly more mobile?
AK is a better passer. Much better perimeter defender and has great defensive instincts. Better at slashing than Splitter is as well. Is capable of knocking down non-layups.

[spursince#99]

AK is a better passer. Much better perimeter defender and has great defensive instincts. Better at slashing than Splitter is as well. Is capable of knocking down non-layups.


Understandable, but is he capable of keeping the likes of Durant and LeBron in front of him? Because history isn't necessarily on his side as far as that goes.

[TheGoldStandard]

AK is a better passer. Much better perimeter defender and has great defensive instincts. Better at slashing than Splitter is as well. Is capable of knocking down non-layups.

Don't forget he doesn't get blocked by the rim.

[SpursRock20]

Understandable, but is he capable of keeping the likes of Durant and LeBron in front of him? Because history isn't necessarily on his side as far as that goes.
He wouldn't necessarily need to. That's Leonard's job.

[Mugen]

I'd put the Spurs chances of signing AK at <10%.

If they're going to then it needs to get done within the next 24-48 hours tbh before the teams that don't sign Howard start throwing out stupid money.

Kirilenko just doesn't seem to me like the type of player that's "over himself" and can accept a reduced role on the Spurs.

Hope I'm wrong though.

[spursince#99]

He wouldn't necessarily need to. That's Leonard's job.


Yes he would, Leonard cannot be the only player on this team capable of guarding elite scorers. Especially if you want his offensive production to increase. It's just not a recipe for success.

[Nathan89]

Understandable, but is he capable of keeping the likes of Durant and LeBron in front of him? Because history isn't necessarily on his side as far as that goes.


No but serious question. What's the difference between him and Splitter besides being slightly more mobile?

You obviously know nothing about him. So why are commenting his history?

[spurraider21]

Yes he would, Leonard cannot be the only player on this team capable of guarding elite scorers. Especially if you want his offensive production to increase. It's just not a recipe for success.

kirilenko could do anything defensively that Diaw could and more, tbh
and that includes solid work on bron

[SpursRock20]

Yes he would, Leonard cannot be the only player on this team capable of guarding elite scorers. Especially if you want his offensive production to increase. It's just not a recipe for success.
I don't see AK shutting down Lebron or Durant but he can definitely spell Leonard for about 15 minutes a game in the SF spot.

[spursince#99]

You obviously know nothing about him. So why are commenting his history?

Dude I've been watching AK since his Matt Harpring, Mehmet Okur, and Carlos Boozer days. I'm very knowledgeable of what he can and can't do. That question was to see who really knew what attributes he could bring to the table besides his length everyone's so infatuated over.

[spursince#99]

kirilenko could do anything defensively that Diaw could and more, tbh
and that includes solid work on bron


Diaw's lateral quickness is very underrated, but you could be right. I don't know about in the post though but his length should be able to overcompensate for his lack of bulk, which Diaw used to his advantage.

[spursince#99]

I don't see AK shutting down Lebron or Durant but he can definitely spell Leonard for about 15 minutes a game in the SF spot.


Yeah I believe he could if he plays with toughness.

[SpursRock20]

Yeah I believe he could if he plays with toughness.
I've never considered AK as a soft player. He seems to play with a lot of heart. Admittedly, I did not watch many Timberwolves games (they don't get a whole lot of air time). But from his days in Utah and for his national team, he seems to be a tough defender, although he has a skinny frame.

[FkLA]

Nando and CoJo wont change anything imo. Nando has the same issue as old Manu does in that hell get bothered by the Heats athleticism when he runs the pick and roll. CoJo is too raw. As for Kawhi I agree that his touches should increase but not sure I would want him as our #2 playmaker just yet.

Give me Monta Ellis tbh.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I'd put the Spurs chances of signing AK at <10%.

If they're going to then it needs to get done within the next 24-48 hours tbh before the teams that don't sign Howard start throwing out stupid money.

Kirilenko just doesn't seem to me like the type of player that's "over himself" and can accept a reduced role on the Spurs.

Hope I'm wrong though.

I think Kirilenko just wants to win at this point. The Wolves suck. He just came from CSKA Moscow where they won the Russian Championship and were 2nd in the Euroleague. He noted he wanted to play for a contending team and have a long term as well. And quite honestly, the Spurs would be the best fit for him. RC and Pop have a way of signing guys for less than market value. So I wouldn't be surprised in Kirilenko comes to the Spurs.

Also helps that Pop speaks Russian as well.

[spursince#99]

I've never considered AK as a soft player. He seems to play with a lot of heart. Admittedly, I did not watch many Timberwolves games (they don't get a whole lot of air time). But from his days in Utah and for his national team, he seems to be a tough defender, although he has a skinny frame.


I think that skinny frame gets him pushed around a lot. I've seen him defend Durant this season and on one play Durant basically manhandled him. I'll try to find the clip.

[spursince#99]

I've never considered AK as a soft player. He seems to play with a lot of heart. Admittedly, I did not watch many Timberwolves games (they don't get a whole lot of air time). But from his days in Utah and for his national team, he seems to be a tough defender, although he has a skinny frame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcrZngbvj2I

[jjktkk]

I'd put the Spurs chances of signing AK at <10%.

If they're going to then it needs to get done within the next 24-48 hours tbh before the teams that don't sign Howard start throwing out stupid money.

Kirilenko just doesn't seem to me like the type of player that's "over himself" and can accept a reduced role on the Spurs.

Hope I'm wrong though.

I don't know, maybe AK47 being 32, and having the chance to play on a contender, he might realize the Spurs would be a pretty good place to play, irregardless if hes in a reduced role.

[SpursRock20]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcrZngbvj2I
That's not even a basketball play. He just flat out shoved him and AK seemed to embellish it as he was looking for the foul call. I'm not saying you are wrong, but from this play I can't see how this shows how he gets manhandled.

[Mugen]

Also helps that Pop speaks Russian as well.

:lol Learning how to say "4yr/32million" in Russian would help other GMs more tbh.

[spursince#99]

That's not even a basketball play. He just flat out shoved him and AK seemed to embellish it as he was looking for the foul call. I'm not saying you are wrong, but from this play I can't see how this shows how he gets manhandled.


That was the only clip I could find. It was an ongoing ordeal throughout most of the game.

[BackHome]

If he is doing that to AK that means AK is getting under his skin and not many players can do that to Durant.

[Seventyniner]

The Wolves have agreed to a 4-year contract with Kevin Martin for $28M, perhaps up to $30M with incentives. According to the twitter feeds on hoopshype, they would have to renounce Kirilenko to do so. This removes a potential suitor, but also makes a sign-and-trade to the Spurs impossible unless it involves the Thunder too (Martin signed-and-traded to the Wolves, Kirilenko signed-and-traded to the Spurs, the Thunder get a trade exception and maybe a pick).

Edit: link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/MikePradaSBN/statuses/352213707981471744

Edit 2: another tweet: https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/352250313496985600

Edit 3: someone please teach me how to embed tweets. :downspin:

[bklynspursfan]

The Wolves have agreed to a 4-year contract with Kevin Martin for $28M, perhaps up to $30M with incentives. According to the twitter feeds on hoopshype, they would have to renounce Kirilenko to do so. This removes a potential suitor, but also makes a sign-and-trade to the Spurs impossible unless it involves the Thunder too (Martin signed-and-traded to the Wolves, Kirilenko signed-and-traded to the Spurs, the Thunder get a trade exception and maybe a pick).

Edit: link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/MikePradaSBN/statuses/352213707981471744

Edit 2: another tweet: https://twitter.com/DarrenWolfson/status/352250313496985600

Edit 3: someone please teach me how to embed tweets. :downspin:

Use ["tweet"] ["/tweet"] (minus the quotes) In between there, use the number at the end of the tweet from the URL. In the first case, it'd be 352213707981471744

[Chinook]

The Wolves literally do not have the money to sign all of these players without sign-and-trading for Martin. I could spreadsheet this out, but I'll just do a rough version here:

The Wolves entered the off-season with literally no cap space ($100k over).

They got $15.5 Million with Roy and Kirilenko moving on. Then they can get $5.8 Million more by releasing Stiemsma, Cunningham and Gelebale.

So total, they're $21.2 Million under the cap.

Then you account for Pekovic's hold, which is $8.82 Million. Then you add in Budingers $4.96 Million. Then you add in Martin's $6.29 Million. That all makes for $20.7 Million.

So now you probably think that they've managed to get all the deals done, right?

Nope. They have $2.8 Million in rookie-scale holds. So they're over by more than two million bucks. Merely renouncing Kirilenko won't help them.

[Em-City]

The Wolves literally do not have the money to sign all of these players without sign-and-trading for Martin. I could spreadsheet this out, but I'll just do a rough version here:

The Wolves entered the off-season with literally no cap space ($100k over).

They got $15.5 Million with Roy and Kirilenko moving on. Then they can get $5.8 Million more by releasing Stiemsma, Cunningham and Gelebale.

So total, they're $21.2 Million under the cap.

Then you account for Pekovic's hold, which is $8.82 Million. Then you add in Budingers $4.96 Million. Then you add in Martin's $6.29 Million. That all makes for $20.7 Million.

So now you probably think that they've managed to get all the deals done, right?

Nope. They have $2.8 Million in rookie-scale holds. So they're over by more than two million bucks. Merely renouncing Kirilenko won't help them.

to know. . Thanks

[spurraider21]

so what sign and trade scenario do you think would alleviate this problem?

[Chinook]

so what sign and trade scenario do you think would alleviate this problem?

The Wolves are over the cap, so they can use Kirilenko's Non-Bird Rights (which they maintain even if they renounce him [which is why I said his hold doesn't matter]) to trade him to the Spurs for pretty much nothing in return (just a second or something). Then they'd sign-and-trade for Martin, absorbing him into the AK TE.

They could also try to move Derrick Williams or Luke Rindour for nothing or very little in return, but that's obviously harder to do.

[spurraider21]

The Wolves are over the cap, so they can use Kirilenko's Non-Bird Rights (which they maintain even if they renounce him [which is why I said his hold doesn't matter]) to trade him to the Spurs for pretty much nothing in return (just a second or something). Then they'd sign-and-trade for Martin, absorbing him into the AK TE.

They could also try to move Derrick Williams or Luke Rindour for nothing or very little in return, but that's obviously harder to do.

Cool. And would the spurs acquiring Kirilenko via sign and trade be a benefit to us in any way?

[CGD]

^ Interesting. Plus they already used the amnesty on Darko a summer or two back.

theyve been shopping ridnour and Barrera. maybe they have a trade for Ridnour's 4.3 expiring which may net them the needed space space? Something like Ridnour + pick for Robin Lopez's partial?

[jyra]

Then you add in Budingers $4.96 Million.

I think you are overlooking that the Wolves can sign Budinger using Bird Rights. So only his cap hold of 884k should be counted when calculating their usable cap space.

[Chinook]

Cool. And would the spurs acquiring Kirilenko via sign and trade be a benefit to us in any way?

Yes, in a couple. First, it removes roster charges from the equation, which means the team could give Kirilenko about $500k more than they could if they signed him outright. They also could moving a small contract like De Colo or Mills as part of the trade and gain some room.

Second, doing a large S&T that includes moving Bonner and Mills/De Colo/Neal to another team could result in the team being able to get AK without having to worry about him and Ginobili fitting under the cap. They'd also have the full MLE left after such a trade.

[spurraider21]

Yes, in a couple. First, it removes roster charges from the equation, which means the team could give Kirilenko about $500k more than they could if they signed him outright. They also could moving a small contract like De Colo or Mills as part of the trade and gain some room.

Second, doing a large S&T that includes moving Bonner and Mills/De Colo/Neal to another team could result in the team being able to get AK without having to worry about him and Ginobili fitting under the cap. They'd also have the full MLE left after such a trade.

Great stuff. It's good to have guys with awesome cap knowledge on the forum :toast

and apparently, based on minnesota's cap situation, the K-mart acquisition looks like it had to be a sign and trade anyway, so its possible this is already in the works :downspin:

[Chinook]

I think you are overlooking that the Wolves can sign Budinger using Bird Rights. So only his cap hold of 884k should be counted when calculating their usable cap space.

True enough, and thanks for pointing that out. But they also picked up Cunningham's option and don't intend to release Gelebale. So that keeps them over.

[Chinook]

The Wolves literally do not have the money to sign all of these players without sign-and-trading for Martin. I could spreadsheet this out, but I'll just do a rough version here:

The Wolves entered the off-season with literally no cap space ($100k over).

They got $15.5 Million with Roy and Kirilenko moving on. Then they can get $5.8 Million more by releasing Stiemsma, Cunningham and Gelabale.

So total, they're $21.2 Million under the cap.

Then you account for Pekovic's hold, which is $8.82 Million. Then you add in Budingers $4.96 Million. Then you add in Martin's $6.29 Million. That all makes for $20.7 Million.

So now you probably think that they've managed to get all the deals done, right?

Nope. They have $2.8 Million in rookie-scale holds. So they're over by more than two million bucks. Merely renouncing Kirilenko won't help them.

EDIT: jyra has pointed out that Budinger has a cap hold of only $884k. That drops Minnesota to about $2 Million under the cap. However, they have already exercised Cunningham's $2.2 Million option. They also seem to be keeping Gelabale. That puts them back to about a million over.

[DesignatedT]

EDIT: jyra has pointed out that Budinger has a cap hold of only $884k. That drops Minnesota to about $2 Million under the cap. However, they have already exercised Cunningham's $2.2 Million option. They also seem to be keeping Gelabale. That puts them back to about a million over.

Thanks for the breakdown.

[MR-Clutch]

He could compete for sixth man of the year.

[cd021]

Yes, in a couple. First, it removes roster charges from the equation, which means the team could give Kirilenko about $500k more than they could if they signed him outright. They also could moving a small contract like De Colo or Mills as part of the trade and gain some room.

Second, doing a large S&T that includes moving Bonner and Mills/De Colo/Neal to another team could result in the team being able to get AK without having to worry about him and Ginobili fitting under the cap. They'd also have the full MLE left after such a trade.

You need your own thread, where you can everyone's cap questions about the Spurs and their competitors . You clearly understand this stuff better than most. Great stuff.

[Baam]

Green has to come off the bench.

Tp Ky Ak Tiago Tim

With Green as 6th man.

[TheGoldStandard]

Green has to come off the bench.

Tp Ky Ak Tiago Tim

With Green as 6th man.

So that means Manu will be the one initiating the offense on the 2nd unit and driving to the rim in order to free up Green? He's not coming off screens or anything like that, he's a spot up shooter.

[Baam]

So that means Manu will be the one initiating the offense on the 2nd unit and driving to the rim in order to free up Green? He's not coming off screens or anything like that, he's a spot up shooter.

Ky is the third option next year and should play more with the bench.

[TheGoldStandard]

Ky is the third option next year and should play more with the bench.

Still need a PG unless you're gonna have Manu run point.

[Chinook]

Leonard's not a two-guard. I don't know why people don't understand this. He plays his best when he's allowed to be a combo-forward. Why would anyone change that?

And Kirilenko can come off the bench just fine. Ginobili came off the bench while making $14 Million.

[Chinook]

People talk about Kirilenko being overpaid when he was with the Jazz. That could be true, but damn, Prime AK was something to behold.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Dvi1rS5S4

[Sean Cagney]

Leonard's not a two-guard. I don't know why people don't understand this. He plays his best when he's allowed to be a combo-forward. Why would anyone change that?

And Kirilenko can come off the bench just fine. Ginobili came off the bench while making $14 Million.

He can, but will he though?

[Baam]

Leonard's not a two-guard. I don't know why people don't understand this. He plays his best when he's allowed to be a combo-forward. Why would anyone change that?

And Kirilenko can come off the bench just fine. Ginobili came off the bench while making $14 Million.

His D is at its best on 2 guards as proven in the POs and he can post them easily.

[Chinook]

His D is at its best on 2 guards as proven in the POs and he can post them easily.

His defense is at it's best against players his size of a little taller. He doesn't do well against smaller guards. And he can't be posting people up as a two, especially with Kirilenko is going to be the other wing. There's no one to space the floor, and the paint is just a huddled mess.

He has the game of a forward. Let him stay there.

[Chinook]

He can, but will he though?

If he signs, he would be prepared to. Pop's not going to let a 32-year-old player who's never won anything dictate his rotations. Pop never promises anyone a starting spot.

[TheGoldStandard]

People talk about Kirilenko being overpaid when he was with the Jazz. That could be true, but damn, Prime AK was something to behold.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8Dvi1rS5S4

Working hard on both ends with a high motor.

[Sean Cagney]

If he signs, he would be prepared to. Pop's not going to let a 32-year-old player who's never won anything dictate his rotations. Pop never promises anyone a starting spot.

I just hope he will consider signing here, right now I hate to say it but it looks like Bonner and Neal will be back too and we end up with same team. I would love to have an AK47.

[Sean Cagney]

DP.

[spursince#99]

He has Diaw-like passing skills no doubt.

[tim_duncan_fan]

This offseason is busted. Even if he wanted to be here, does Kirilenko help us really?

[spursince#99]

This offseason is busted. Even if he wanted to be here, does Kirilenko help us really?


I was thinking the same, but it isn't busted. That's a quite harsh word to use.

[Bruno]

Well, he is done in Minny. The max they can now offer him is the room exception that will give him a $5.4M/ 2 years.

[Baam]

The other option would be Splitter coming off the bench again, AK is not coming off the bench.

Someone like Ellis isn't either.

[Redshadows]

Well, he is done in Minny. The max they can now offer him is the room exception that will give him a $5.4M/ 2 years.
But how much could Spurs offer to AK after re-signing Splitter? Or Spurs could sign AK first and then sign Splitter officially?

[Chinook]

Well, he is done in Minny. The max they can now offer him is the room exception that will give him a $5.4M/ 2 years.

*Provided they found a way to sign Martin outright.

[Bruno]

But how much could Spurs offer to AK after re-signing Splitter? Or Spurs could sign AK first and then sign Splitter officially?

Splitter will be signed after and regardless on what exactly will be his contract, he will cost $7.5M (his cap hold) against the cap at the time to sign Kirilenko.


*Provided they found a way to sign Martin outright.

Minny shouldn't have an issue to simply sign Martin. With a $58.5M cap, they will have $5M to $8.5M in cap space which is way enough. They can even keep Gelabale and sing Martin if they want it.

[spurraider21]

Minny shouldn't have an issue to simply sign Martin. With a $58.5M cap, they will have $5M to $8.5M in cap space which is way enough. They can even keep Gelabale and sing Martin if they want it.

is that including the Pek cap hold and the Budinger signing?

[Bruno]

To sum up Spurs cap situation, they have $12.8M to split between Kirilenko and Ginobili. That provided Bonner is amnestied and Neal isn't kept. If Spurs get Kirilenko with an empty S&T, they will have $13.4M to split between them. To get a little more cap space, Spurs could try to salary dump Mills and/or De Colo.

If Spurs sign Kirilenko with cap space, they will still have after that he room exception ($5.4M/2 years) to offer at other free agents.

[Sean Cagney]

I was thinking the same, but it isn't busted. That's a quite harsh word to use.

I think it is true though, it is BUSTED IMO because they bring Bonner back and will probably get Neal again and signed Splitter to that 9 mill a year contract. To me that is a bust all in all. I wanted those two gone and someone to replace them and maybe a decent FA and we got none of that. Our draft pick is a project too and will not play this year.

[Bruno]

is that including the Pek cap hold and the Budinger signing?

it is including Pekovic's and Bundinger's cap hold. Budinger will be signed after Martin.

a quick breakdown of Minny slary situation:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218795&page=38&p=6727531&viewfull=1#post6727531

[spurraider21]

Splitters average salary shouldn't be too much of a shock to anybody. Centers are always overpriced, and most were pointing to Asik's 3 year 25 million contract, which is 8.3 mil per year. We gave our guy 9 per year. Not much a jump, and remember, Asik signed that after only being a bench guy for the Bulls. Deandre Jordan and Javale McGee are both getting over 10 mil and they are bums. Gortat who was a bench guy on Orlando landed a contract netting him more than 7 mil per year. Splitter is a guy that was our starter for a vast majority of the season and is projected to continue that role going forward. It's fine. We still have room to make some magic happen with AK/Manu

[DesignatedT]

To sum up Spurs cap situation, they have $12.8M to split between Kirilenko and Ginobili. That provided Bonner is amnestied and Neal isn't kept. If Spurs get Kirilenko with an empty S&T, they will have $13.4M to split between them. To get a little more cap space, Spurs could try to salary dump Mills and/or De Colo.

If Spurs sign Kirilenko with cap space, they will still have after that he room exception ($5.4M/2 years) to offer at other free agents.

This is assuming Splitters first year is worth 9M or it doesn't really matter?

[Chinook]

Minny shouldn't have an issue to simply sign Martin. With a $58.5M cap, they will have $5M to $8.5M in cap space which is way enough. They can even keep Gelabale and sing Martin if they want it.

I thought the numbers were closer than that. I got the Wolves being at $53.3 Million before Martin was added. Even taking Gelabale way would keep them over. I imagine there's some rounding error in there, though.


If Spurs get Kirilenko with an empty S&T, they will have $13.4M to split between them.

Just to be clear, this S&T cannot happen if the Wolves sign Martin outright, correct? They'd have to use Kirilenko's Non-Bird exception to sign-and-trade him, and they'd have to give that up to have cap space. Do I understand that correctly?

[Dingle Barry]

I can't believe people are discussing amnestying Bonner. Pop wouldnt even consider it.

[Baam]

I can't believe people are discussing amnestying Bonner. Pop wouldnt even consider it.

Exactly, too much wishful thinking with overly complicated scenarios.

[spursince#99]

I think it is true though, it is BUSTED IMO because they bring Bonner back and will probably get Neal again and signed Splitter to that 9 mill a year contract. To me that is a bust all in all. I wanted those two gone and someone to replace them and maybe a decent FA and we got none of that. Our draft pick is a project too and will not play this year.


Neal isn't coming back, Splitter's deal is most likely back loaded, and Bonner is still quite likely to be moved.

[TheGoldStandard]

Neal isn't coming back, Splitter's deal is most likely back loaded, and Bonner is still quite likely to be moved.

Pop will ask for a moment of silence at the first home game and everyone will wear #15 patch for the Spurs.

[Mugen]

Spurfan needs to prepare themselves for when Kirilenko inevitably signs elsewhere because Pop refuses to give up on Matty.

I've resigned to signing Delfino when this falls through tbh.

[TheGoldStandard]

Spurfan needs to prepare themselves for when Kirilenko inevitably signs elsewhere because Pop refuses to give up on Matty.

I've resigned to signing Delfino when this falls through tbh.

But he spreads the floor at 14 minutes a game.

[celldweller]

Spurfan needs to prepare themselves for when Kirilenko inevitably signs elsewhere because Pop refuses to give up on Matty.

I've resigned to signing Delfino when this falls through tbh.


...and and he's a great locker room guy.

[BatManu20]

Neal isn't coming back, Splitter's deal is most likely back loaded, and Bonner is still quite likely to be moved.

Woj reports that the Spurs are now focusing on re-signing both Manu and Gary Neal now that Splitter's locked up so...

[spurraider21]

Not sure to trust Bruno or Chinook tbh :lol

[ElNono]

Spurfan needs to prepare themselves for when Kirilenko inevitably signs elsewhere because Pop refuses to give up on Matty.

I've resigned to signing Delfino when this falls through tbh.

Last I heard, Lakers were looking at Delfino...

[Bruno]

I thought the numbers were closer than that. I got the Wolves being at $53.3 Million before Martin was added. Even taking Gelabale way would keep them over. I imagine there's some rounding error in there, though.

Have you removed Stiensma contract that is non guaranteed and rumored to be waived?
That's my computation but I may also be wrong:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218795&page=38&p=6727531&viewfull=1#post6727531



Just to be clear, this S&T cannot happen if the Wolves sign Martin outright, correct? They'd have to use Kirilenko's Non-Bird exception to sign-and-trade him, and they'd have to give that up to have cap space. Do I understand that correctly?

Yes, it can't. Minny would have to do the Kirilenko S&T first and they renounce to the trade exception created by it.

Another possibility would be a three team trade between Spurs, Thunder and Wolves. Spurs would get Kirilenko, Wolves would get Martin and Thunder would get a TE and maybe some little assets like cash or second round picks. It would allow Minny to have the MLE/LLE instead of the room exception to end their offseason.

[spurs10]

Pop is a fan of AK47, and vice versa. There might be some substance behind this rumor. It would be incredibly badass if it went down. We'd still need to develop a backup for TP, but we'd be looking pretty damn strong.

[Chinook]

Not sure to trust Bruno or Chinook tbh :lol

When in doubt, always trust Bruno. He's been doing this a lot longer than I have.

[spursince#99]

Woj reports that the Spurs are now focusing on re-signing both Manu and Gary Neal now that Splitter's locked up so...


Doesn't mean it's going to happen, and I've searched but yet to find that tweet.

[spurraider21]

Doesn't mean it's going to happen, and I've searched but yet to find that tweet.

it was at the end of his yahoo article, not a tweet

[spursince#99]

it was at the end of his yahoo article, not a tweet


Yeah I just saw it, but I'd think he'd announce it separately like everything else.

[Chinook]

Have you removed Stiensma contract that is non guaranteed and rumored to be waived?
That's my computation but I may also be wrong:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218795&page=38&p=6727531&viewfull=1#post6727531

The biggest difference between our calculations is that you're assuming Gelabale is waived, and I didn't. That makes up about $900k of difference. Then your numbers actually added up to $50.8 Million instead of $50.0 Million (assumed typo), but your individual numbers looked solid. I really think it was just rounding error. It's so close that Gelabale's deal makes the difference. And I doubt Minnesota would keep him if it comes to that. But they might, as he's a very competent three for a very cheap deal. But thanks for the other opinion. :toast


Yes, it can't. Minny would have to do the Kirilenko S&T first and they renounce to the trade exception created by it.

Another possibility would be a three team trade between Spurs, Thunder and Wolves. Spurs would get Kirilenko, Wolves would get Martin and Thunder would get a TE and maybe some little assets like cash or second round picks. It would allow Minny to have the MLE/LLE instead of the room exception to end their offseason

We've been beating that scenario to death over the last few hours. It would seem beneficial to all parties, but it might be too complicated to get everything to work. I think they'll try to work something out over the next week or so, provided the Spurs actually are interesting in Kirilenko in the first place.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I'm gonna rage. It's possibly Duncan's last year and we are being very passive as an organization. I don't like doing nothing. It's like they expect everything to just shake out for us like it did this year. Oi!

[TheGoldStandard]

I'm gonna rage. It's possibly Duncan's last year and we are being very passive as an organization. I don't like doing nothing. It's like they expect everything to just shake out for us like it did this year. Oi!

They're expecting Duncan, Parker and Manu and now Kawhi to carry the load while everyone else just kinda meanders through the season.

[spurraider21]

They're expecting Duncan, Parker and Manu and now Kawhi to carry the load while everyone else just kinda meanders through the season.

stupid franchise, making their best players do most of the work...

[tim_duncan_fan]

To sum up Spurs cap situation, they have $12.8M to split between Kirilenko and Ginobili. That provided Bonner is amnestied and Neal isn't kept. If Spurs get Kirilenko with an empty S&T, they will have $13.4M to split between them. To get a little more cap space, Spurs could try to salary dump Mills and/or De Colo.

If Spurs sign Kirilenko with cap space, they will still have after that he room exception ($5.4M/2 years) to offer at other free agents.

So, if it worked out that Iguodala or Evans didn't get on with the Kings, could we use $11 to get Tyreke or Andre and use $1.8 to sign someone's back up?

[Bruno]

So, if it worked out that Iguodala or Evans didn't get on with the Kings, could we use $11 to get Tyreke or Andre and use $1.8 to sign someone's back up?

You can but, in that case, Spurs likely won't be able to re-sign Manu.

[stephen jackson]

so we can throw 6.8 to ak47 & 6 to manu
and still have a MLE to throw at another free agent? :))))

[Kineto]

so we can throw 6.8 to ak47 & 6 to manu
and still have a MLE to throw at another free agent? :))))

No, you can't use cap space AND the MLE. we can use MLE only if we sign our current player (SPlitter, Gino, Neal...)

[SpursSerb]

If the Spurs want to sign Kirilenko,they can sign him.Not signing Kirilenko cause you don't want to give up Bonner or Neal is beyond dumb and stupid.Kirilenko should be their priority,even before Manu.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

AK wingspan is 7'4" and Kawhi's is 7'3". Duncan and Splitter's wingspans are 7'3". If the Spurs picked up AK they would be one of the best defensive teams in the league and that have the option of going small ball with Duncan/Splitter C, AK PF, and Kawhi SF or Big with Splitter C, Duncan PF, and Kawhi/AK at small SF.

This would allow them to matchup with any team's frontcourt in the league easily.

[xmas1997]

Seems to me if AK47 were coming here we would have heard something solid by now!

[cd98]

Seems to me if AK47 were coming here we would have heard something solid by now!

We had to get Ginoboli deal first to determine how much we could pay someone else. Now that Ginoboli's deal is done, I'm sure the Spurs are exploring the best way to add Kirilenko, along with looking at other free agents if they can't get him.

[spurs10]

We had to get Ginoboli deal first to determine how much we could pay someone else. Now that Ginoboli's deal is done, I'm sure the Spurs are exploring the best way to add Kirilenko, along with looking at other free agents if they can't get him.I sure hope you are right! :toast

[spurraider21]

It seems as though the front office might have to choose between bonner and Kirilenko :lol

[ducks]

with manu signed spurs could announce something soon