Obama kills chances of tax reform by coming out in favor of it.

[scott]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/30/obama-proposes-grand-bargain-for-jobs/

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/30/president-to-propose-grand-bargain-on-jobs/?hpt=hp_t2

http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2013/07/30/obamas-new-corporate-tax-offer-is-another-dead-end/

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/obama-grand-bargain-94918.html?hp=l1

Multiple sources, so you can pick your favorite to read.

[scott]

Obama should symbolically support breathing air just for the comedy of seeing Republicans rip it to shreds.

[boutons_deux]

"it involves cutting the corporate tax rate if Republicans agree to spend billions in one-time revenues to fund job creation projects that the president has long championed."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/obama-grand-bargain-94918.html#ixzz2aZAXhzHu

incredibly stupid bargain that the corporations will definitely cheat on, and end up winners, plus no significant job creation

history: dubya allow corps a "one time" steal to repatriate $300B+ at 5% tax rate in return for job creation. Once done, BigPharma, a major beneficiary, laid off 10Ks employees.

[Th'Pusher]

It's strategic IMO. The GOP dismisses this out of hand claiming that tax reform has to include personal income tax reform to ensure that small businesses reap the benefits. While most big businesses I'm sure would like to see across the board tax reform, there is no reason corporate taxes and personal income tax reform need to be coupled together. With this, Obama is driving another wedge between the the tea baggers and big business similar to what's happened with the immigration debate and the fight over defunding the ACA. Obama is looking to divide and conquer the GOP. He smells blood in the water.

[hater]

Obama should introduce a bill to wipe out Obamacare

Republican's heads would explode :lol

[AntiChrist]

Obama could heal the planet, were it not for those damn extremissst obstructionissst republicans.

[AntiChrist]

Beats focusing on all the "fake" scandals, I suppose.

[ElNono]

tbh, the sad state of the GOP has a lot more to do with the GOP than with Barry...

[symple19]

:lmao

Obama doing a speech about middle class jobs/corporate tax reform from the floor of an Amazon warehouse, a non-union company that pays a vast majority of its workers around 24 grand a year (barely over the poverty line)... Not to mention the fact that Amazon avoids taxes wherever and whenever it can

I would have thought his team was smart enough to know what irony was

Plus, this plan is more or less the same as the one he came around with a couple years ago. gmafb

Not that the repugs have anything worthwhile to present, either. Fuck all of em'

[AntiChrist]

I wish I had bought Amazon stock several years ago

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao

Obama doing a speech about middle class jobs/corporate tax reform from the floor of an Amazon warehouse, a non-union company that pays a vast majority of its workers around 24 grand a year (barely over the poverty line)... Not to mention the fact that Amazon avoids taxes wherever and whenever it can
:lmao:lmao

[angrydude]

The only reason Obama is out giving these speeches is he wants to go back into campaign mode. He likes being liked.

[2centsworth]

I think the proposal is interesting and something I would support. Is it the end all be all? Not close, but would do more good than bad. I like it.

[boutons_deux]

Amazon warehouse, a non-union company that pays a vast majority of its workers around 24 grand a year

yeah, non-living-wage of $12.something/hour but I hear its with health insurance and a retirement plan, and lots of rah-rah feel good cheerleading to "better yourself".

probably catastrophe insurance, $5K deductible and super high co-pay.

[symple19]

yeah, non-living-wage of $12.something/hour but I hear its with health insurance and a retirement plan, and lots of rah-rah feel good cheerleading to "better yourself".

probably catastrophe insurance, $5K deductible and super high co-pay.

I used to be a manager at a large Amazon warehouse. The insurance is actually quite good, even for low-level workers, as are the 401k/stock options. The pay/hours suck, though, as does the culture... Not to mention they never hire anyone (at low-levels) before a temp period (through an agency) where that worker must toil without insurance... Usually 6-12 months

They also shove a lot of anti-union propaganda down your throat at the monthly meetings. It's why a vast majority of their facilities are in the south, where they can easily get away with low-pay and treating people like shit (As well as bullying local/state governments into coddling them with favorable tax conditions)

It's an awful company to work for, although great if you're a consumer. Sound familiar? It should, because it's basically Wal-Mart online. A no holds-barred approach to giving consumers low prices coupled with ruthless efficiency, low-wages, poor working conditions, and a reliance on Temp workers

For example. Their warehouse in Lexington, one of the busiest in the system, employs around 2,000 people on six, ten hour shifts. During the summer, that warehouse isn't air-conditioned and would regularly get well into the 100's, a few times getting up to 120 or higher. Their solution? Free water and an extra 5 minutes on breaks :lmao
In my department, shipping, I would have to rotate people out of the trucks every 30 minutes since temps in the trailers regularly got over 130. Yeah, they supplied plenty of fans, but all they really did was push hot air around. I took two shirts to work every night because the first would be soaked through by lunch.

Best part of all this? I worked the night shift. In the two years I was there, probably 20-30 had heat related illnesses each summer. Four of them in my department, alone. One guy died as a result of complications, but the safety team decided it was due to a pre-existing condition so as to not count against the facility's record :lmao


Only place I've ever been that's hotter is Iraq/Kuwait in full combat gear, lol

[symple19]

dp

[leemajors]

:lmao

Obama doing a speech about middle class jobs/corporate tax reform from the floor of an Amazon warehouse, a non-union company that pays a vast majority of its workers around 24 grand a year (barely over the poverty line)... Not to mention the fact that Amazon avoids taxes wherever and whenever it can

I would have thought his team was smart enough to know what irony was

Plus, this plan is more or less the same as the one he came around with a couple years ago. gmafb

Not that the repugs have anything worthwhile to present, either. Fuck all of em'

I was wondering what you had to say about that :lol

[AntiChrist]

Obama's "Grand Bargain" with Obama

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323854904578638043969528444.html

[Winehole23]

quick question: how does lowering corporate income tax rates amount to a corporate tax hike?

[scott]

quick question: how does lowering corporate income tax rates amount to a corporate tax hike?

Any nominal rate reduction (or increase for that matter) can result in an effective rate increase (or decrease for that matter).

[Winehole23]

gotcha.

[TrainOfThought5]

tbh, the sad state of the GOP has a lot more to do with the GOP than with Barry...

[Winehole23]

the kneejerk opposition to Barry, who -- frankly -- more resembles his opposition than he differs from them, is a distinguishing trait of the GOP.

[boutons_deux]

http://www.truthdig.com/images/made/images/cartoonuploads/corptaxes_500_398.jpg

[Winehole23]

at the risk of grossly oversimplifying, the so-called problem of of a higher effective tax rate at a lower nominal rate is essentially increased compliance, no?

[boutons_deux]

at the risk of grossly oversimplifying, the so-called problem of of a higher effective tax rate at a lower nominal rate is essentially increased compliance, no?

national tax authorities in international conference discuss the rate of tax of diminishing returns. The higher the tax, the more some people refuse to comply, to cheat, to evade, criminally, to pay.

Of course, when you have the self-serving, bad faith corps, ALEC, Repugs, Norquist, tea bagger, sovereign citizen types saying govt and its taxes are illegitimate, ALL govt is bad, esp the "revenooers" after my white lightenin', and therefore evading taxes is good, then stupid people are influenced into that type of thought, and action. short form: govt is bad, you get nothing back for the taxes you pay, so don't pay.

[MannyIsGod]

I used to be a manager at a large Amazon warehouse. The insurance is actually quite good, even for low-level workers, as are the 401k/stock options. The pay/hours suck, though, as does the culture... Not to mention they never hire anyone (at low-levels) before a temp period (through an agency) where that worker must toil without insurance... Usually 6-12 months

They also shove a lot of anti-union propaganda down your throat at the monthly meetings. It's why a vast majority of their facilities are in the south, where they can easily get away with low-pay and treating people like shit (As well as bullying local/state governments into coddling them with favorable tax conditions)

It's an awful company to work for, although great if you're a consumer. Sound familiar? It should, because it's basically Wal-Mart online. A no holds-barred approach to giving consumers low prices coupled with ruthless efficiency, low-wages, poor working conditions, and a reliance on Temp workers

For example. Their warehouse in Lexington, one of the busiest in the system, employs around 2,000 people on six, ten hour shifts. During the summer, that warehouse isn't air-conditioned and would regularly get well into the 100's, a few times getting up to 120 or higher. Their solution? Free water and an extra 5 minutes on breaks :lmao
In my department, shipping, I would have to rotate people out of the trucks every 30 minutes since temps in the trailers regularly got over 130. Yeah, they supplied plenty of fans, but all they really did was push hot air around. I took two shirts to work every night because the first would be soaked through by lunch.

Best part of all this? I worked the night shift. In the two years I was there, probably 20-30 had heat related illnesses each summer. Four of them in my department, alone. One guy died as a result of complications, but the safety team decided it was due to a pre-existing condition so as to not count against the facility's record :lmao


Only place I've ever been that's hotter is Iraq/Kuwait in full combat gear, lol

Its not going to give you the world, but 24k for an unskilled job with good benefits is not that bad, IMO. Unskilled labor is what it is.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Its not going to give you the world, but 24k for an unskilled job with good benefits is not that bad, IMO. Unskilled labor is what it is.
Yeah 24k a year is only a few k less than the median wage right now which for an unskilled job isn't bad. It's still a disgustingly pathetic wage and a non-living wage, but that speaks more to the current state of 'Murica than it does Amazon.

[symple19]

Manny, your statement is fair, but sad. America has lowered its standards to the point where being just above the poverty line, with less than a 5% chance of being upwardly mobile, is considered a good thing. If you can't find the pathetic irony in Obama's speech, from a supposed Democrat, then I don't know what to tell you

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Manny, your statement is fair, but sad. America has lowered its standards to the point where being just above the poverty line, with less than a 5% chance of being upwardly mobile, is considered a good thing. If you can't find the pathetic irony in Obama's speech, from a supposed Democrat, then I don't know what to tell you
Obama is a Clinton-Democrat. He's a corporate whore who wins elections by being slightly less of a corporate whore than the Republicans are.

The modern day Democratic party does not stand for any ideals, it just stands for winning the red team vs. blue team pissing matches.

[symple19]

Obama is a Clinton-Democrat. He's a corporate whore who wins elections by being slightly less of a corporate whore than the Republicans are.

The modern day Democratic party does not stand for any ideals, it just stands for winning the red team vs. blue team pissing matches.

Pretty much. Both parties have been little more than gate guards for their corporate overlords while maintaining the status quo and bickering about things which have no real impact on American society.

[symple19]

Oh, and that 5% number is in regards to those at Amazon who (without a degree) actually make it above Process Assistant (AKA PA, the lowest manager you can become) into an Area Manager, where you can make a middle class salary (50+)

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Pretty much. Both parties have been little more than gate guards for their corporate overlords while maintaining the status quo and bickering about things which have no real impact on American society.
The difference is that the GOP stands for ideals. They're ideals I vehemently disagree with, but they stand for the ideals jeebotardism, neoconservatism, white nationalism, and plutocracy regardless of how it affects their popularity.

When someone in the media would point out to Dick Cheney the War in Iraq had a 60+% disapproval rating, he'd look them in the face and say, "So?" because even though he might have been corrupt and dishonest, he had determination and guts to get shit done. If someone ever pointed something out to Obama that had a 60% disapproval rating, Obama would panic and immediately come out against it because that's what he's mostly worried about.

[symple19]

The difference is that the GOP stands for ideals. They're ideals I vehemently disagree with, but they stand for the ideals jeebotardism, neoconservatism, white nationalism, and plutocracy regardless of how it affects their popularity.

When someone in the media would point out to Dick Cheney the War in Iraq had a 60+% disapproval rating, he'd look them in the face and say, "So?" because even though he might have been corrupt and dishonest, he had determination and guts to get shit done. If someone ever pointed something out to Obama that had a 60% disapproval rating, Obama would panic and immediately come out against it because that's what he's mostly worried about.

But DOK, it doesn't matter. Hillary and Feinstein were lockstep with the GOP before Iraq. They all have the same overlords, even if their technique and rhetoric is different. It all leads to the same bottom line, imo... Rich getting richer, while the gap continues to grow larger

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

But DOK, it doesn't matter. Hillary and Feinstein were lockstep with the GOP before Iraq. They all have the same overlords, even if their technique and rhetoric is different. It all leads to the same bottom line, imo... Rich getting richer, while the gap continues to grow larger
I agree completely, I'm just saying the difference is the GOP stands for ideals and the Dems don't. The Dems stand for themselves and staying in office.

[symple19]

The jeebotardism is scarier than those ideals which the Dems supposedly hold dear, but the end result is the same. Looking out for the top 5%

[symple19]

I agree completely, I'm just saying the difference is the GOP stands for ideals and the Dems don't. The Dems stand for themselves and staying in office.

:tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Part of the problem is, and I'm as guilty as anybody, seeing the Republicans lose is so fuckin hilarious that you lose sight of the Dems' true colors.

[symple19]

Part of the problem is, and I'm as guilty as anybody, seeing the Republicans lose is so fuckin hilarious that you lose sight of the Dems' true colors.

Yeah, I was a red teamer for my first 31 years or so. I even believed the bullshit while I was in the Army, and continued to do so while in college. It wasn't until I actually entered the real world, made friends with people who weren't from my exact demographic, and started to look at things objectively, that I finally realized that we're being treated (Americans) as ignorant children. This board actually helped the process, tbh.

I'm not into conspiracies, i'm not into trends, but to ignore the stark realities with which we're faced is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and yelling, "nanananananananananananana"

I guess where I'm still flawed is that I think that we, as Americans, can still change things via our pocketbooks and our ballots. Unfortunately, there aren't many candidates who are actually both viable and contrarians. We can thank the D's/R's for that as well

[Nbadan]

Hillary and Feinstein were lockstep with the GOP before Iraq.

:rolleyes

Could that be why Hillary didn't get the Democratic nomination in 2008?
Everybody was talking tough against Saddam....it was the thing to do after 911...but I seriously doubt that Hillary wanted an invasion and occupation force in Iraq

[Nbadan]

The jeebotardism is scarier than those ideals which the Dems supposedly hold dear, but the end result is the same. Looking out for the top 5%

If the Democrats had a super-majority...we would have single-payer health care instead of the ACA...

[baseline bum]

Part of the problem is, and I'm as guilty as anybody, seeing the Republicans lose is so fuckin hilarious that you lose sight of the Dems' true colors.

Nah man, I never lose sight of how shitty the party of President Uncle Tom Mr. Corporate Shoe-Shine, neoliberal Hillary and her faggot husband, Holder the bank fluffer, etc is, though it is funny to see the Republicans bend over backwards to the Limbaughtard crowd and get slaughtered for it.

[symple19]

If the Democrats had a super-majority...we would have single-payer health care instead of the ACA...

:lmao

:lmao

This statement exemplifies why you're an ignorant blue-teamer. Why didn't the dems stand on principle, instead of giving the health care industry a money tree that would never die?

[baseline bum]

If the Democrats had a super-majority...we would have single-payer health care instead of the ACA...

:rollin

LOL, they had it and we didn't even get the fucking public option.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao

:lmao

This statement exemplifies why you're an ignorant blue-teamer. Why didn't the dems stand on principle, instead of giving the health care industry a money tree that would never die?
The only reason why I'm not too angry over Obamacare is because a similar plan was passed in Canada which is what lead to a single payer plan, but I still agree with you. After 1992, the Dems should have stood on principal even if it meant the Republicans would keep winning elections. The Republican policies would have quickly led to another great depression, but the ideals the dems stood for would have been vindicated.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Nah man, I never lose sight of how shitty the party of President Uncle Tom Mr. Corporate Shoe-Shine, neoliberal Hillary and her faggot husband, Holder the bank fluffer, etc is, though it is funny to see the Republicans bend over backwards to the Limbaughtard crowd and get slaughtered for it.
I wasn't about to vote for Obama in 2012, but I couldn't stop myself from finding the DNC speeches making fun of the Romney/Ryan tax plan and their other policies hilarious. I also found the facebook statuses from people I grew up with about how, ":cryThis election just shows there's no reason to work hard for anything anymore:cry" after Romney lost hilarious.

:cryAll the money my parents earn and I spend is gonna get taxed:cry
:cryMy hard work never pays off:cry
:cryI read Atlas Shrugged and it made me realize how independent I am:cry

[symple19]

wow, I misspelled principal

:lol

[symple19]

Fuck facebook, and fuck the cheering for the demise of one side over the other. We all suffer regardless of who "wins."

[Nbadan]

:rollin

LOL, they had it and we didn't even get the fucking public option.

On the surface, there were 60 Democratic votes. But, look more closely. First, you'll see that two of the supermajority seats were held by Independents that merely caucus with the Democrats. One of those two Independents was a featured speaker at the Republican Convention. Another member of the fabled 60 was a five-term Republican senator from Pennsylvania that switched parties fearing a primary challenge. The premise of an unfettered supermajority is that the 60 will be a bloc -- and this 60 was never a bloc. It is a coalition of individuals with some similarities but certainly not enough to guarantee a unified vote on a progressive Democratic platform.

[Nbadan]

:lmao

:lmao

This statement exemplifies why you're an ignorant blue-teamer. Why didn't the dems stand on principle, instead of giving the health care industry a money tree that would never die?

If the Dems hadn't of settled on the ACA they wouldn't have gotten nothing from the lame duck GOP...as somebody already pointed out, the ACA is a starting point toward single-payer or public option...

[Nbadan]

wow, I misspelled principal

:lol

The princi'pal' is your pal....

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, your statement is fair, but sad. America has lowered its standards to the point where being just above the poverty line, with less than a 5% chance of being upwardly mobile, is considered a good thing. If you can't find the pathetic irony in Obama's speech, from a supposed Democrat, then I don't know what to tell you

Well anything he says is ironic because he typically does the opposite.