Is there a Bible/ New Testament expert in the house?

[Skull-1]

I'm not worried, just curious.

Why are you so scared to share your opinion on the after life?Because it is useless to throw pearls after swine. Like I said, don't worry about it. When we are dead, if we are both sentient at that point, we can compare notes. If we're not, it was not a relevant question any way. Academic.

[Blake]

Because it is useless to throw pearls after swine. Like I said, don't worry about it. When we are dead, if we are both sentient at that point, we can compare notes. If we're not, it was not a relevant question any way. Academic.

Like I said, I'm not worried just curious. Why are you worried about sharing your thoughts on the after life?

damn, you went from arrogant blowhard to meek chicken shit in a hurry.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Constantinople was founded in 315 and the various councils of to codify scripture occurred. First pope was named in the 4th century. Constantine founded the Byzantine empire. You constantly cite 'Byzantine texts' and other works from the 4th century but for some reason you think that to be unrelated. As I keep saying you have zero sense of history.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Like I said, I'm not worried just curious. Why are you worried about sharing your thoughts on the after life?

damn, you went from arrogant blowhard to meek chicken shit in a hurry.

It's actually kind of amusing. He fronts constantly about arguments he has supposedly made and how they are obvious but we are just too stupid to see. Then you call him on it. When he has no retort he makes these claims that we are not worth the time yet he literally has been here for days. It's either that or he completely ignores rebuttals

Whats important though, at the end of the day he has admitted that biblical texts are not consistent. Its been made very clear that he just has ones he likes that he claims are consistent because they match piecemeal parts of other texts. Even that work that he quoted before said there are over a thousand discrepencies in John betwixt those 3 versions. He ignored my rebuttal on that though.

It's pretty obvious at heart he is a fundamentally insecure coward. He just fronts this bullshit. Classic narcissism disorder.

[Blake]

it never ceases to amaze me how it seems many Christians in these type of threads either melt down or run away.

Skull happened to do both.

[xmas1997]

I won't get into this pissing contest simply because it is counterproductive to the discussion at hand.
I will say that the deeper more mystical meanings that Christ gave his followers were for the "few" and not the majority.
Not even all the Apostles seemed to understand, which is shown by many of Jesus statements in the gospels.
However, Paul the Apostle seemed to understand better than the rest IMHO. Why? I cannot give you a concrete reason for my opinion so I will leave it to just an opinion based on my studies, experiences, and faith.

I also agree that Christ is here now, that He really never left, and that we are all brothers and sisters of Jesus in a symbolic sense, we just don't realize it. It could simplistically be said that the Holy Spirit is that combination of Christ and the Father, yet the truth is that it is much more than that, that it involves the creative God force in action, within and without us.
As we seek steadfastly toward God, and as we progress, (I do not mean only through the Bible, but in life) we are given eye opening experiences (revelations?) that defy coincidence, and defy explanation in the normal sense. Paul wrote of this and some of the non-canonized books that were not included in the Bible, but recently discovered, spoke of this.

What was not written down was alluded to in the canon as well, but those deeper significances and mysteries were passed on ORALLY because they could only be understood by an open and receptive soul after much seeking for them, even down to this day and age.
They are of such a gnostic nature that only the "few" are capable of realizing and understanding their truth, and would cause one to be derided and ridiculed by mainstream Christianity. In darker eras many were accused of heresy and even persecuted and killed just for knowing these deeper mysteries and mistakenly telling them to the wrong people. Clement knew of this besides Paul, and on down. This was true of the Old Testament too, and in the Kabala.

I will say that Christ becomes us and we become Christ, and that death and rebirth and so on ceases for those "few".
We are finding that reincarnation is mentioned often in the non-canonized gospels and alluded to in the canon, but never mentioned directly. Thus we have the great majority of humanity having to experience death, rebirth, and death over and over again until we finally get it right in this existence.

Thus I do not say that any of you should believe any of what I am saying about any of this, or even to take my word for it. For me, it is what it is, and has been shaped by my studies, experiences, and faith.
All of you have free will to believe what ever you want, or disbelieve what ever you want. I am content within myself to call it all "opinions" for lack of a better description, and let it be at that. And I am only here giving you another point of view that you can take or leave as each of you see fit.
The truth is there, and the truth is here within us all, and all around us, if we just seek for it, then it will find us.

You can always tell a true seeker of the truth though. They are known by their "works", and not by their words. They are humble, they are circumspect, they are true of heart, they are forgiving, they are understanding, they aid as best they can, they refrain from judging, and they are most definitely not pretentious , nor do they laud over others a superior attitude, or of possessing superior knowledge, and they do not ridicule you for lacking understanding or for disbelieving. They do however make their share of mistakes because they are human. And for this reason they are capable of making fun of themselves and the collective human folly, thus they generally have a ribald rich sense of humor, even to the extent of being sacrilegious. Laughter is one of our greatest gifts, thank God.
I Am That I Am

[Blake]

Do you believe in eternal torment in hell?

[xmas1997]

Do you believe in eternal torment in hell?

If you are asking me, my answer (humble opinion) is we create our own versions of hell in our daily lives, and that it is only eternal in the sense that we continue to create it over and over again as we go through our various birth and death, and rebirth cycles.
This never ends until such a time as we somehow find the Truth, and then live the Truth. Others in this discussion have explained the various definitions of truth already including yourself, and that is suffice.

[Blake]

If you are asking me, my answer (humble opinion) is we create our own versions of hell in our daily lives, and that it is only eternal in the sense that we continue to create it over and over again as we go through our various birth and death, and rebirth cycles.
This never ends until such a time as we somehow find the Truth, and then live the Truth. Others in this discussion have explained the various definitions of truth already including yourself, and that is suffice.

So you believe you were someone else in an earlier life?

[xmas1997]

So you believe you were someone else in an earlier life?

From what I have learned so far, I think it is a very distinct possibility, but as of yet I am not prepared to give a concrete yes or no to that question, sorry.
For further consideration you need to study hypnosis which has given us much knowledge of this.

[Blake]

From what I have learned so far, I think it is a very distinct possibility, but as of yet I am not prepared to give a concrete yes or no to that question, sorry.
For further consideration you need to study hypnosis which has given us much knowledge of this.

If you want to discuss how having to resort to hypnosis is illogical, we can. If not, no big deal.

[xmas1997]

If you want to discuss how having to resort to hypnosis is illogical, we can. If not, no big deal.

Hypnosis is just another tool, among many tools, to use on the way to self discovery.
Do you see it as illogical? If so, why?

[Blake]

Hypnosis is just another tool, among many tools, to use on the way to self discovery.
Do you see it as illogical? If so, why?

For one, I shouldn't have to pay a hypnotist to get to the truth. Do hypnotists travel to Africa to help hypnotize the poor?

[xmas1997]

For one, I shouldn't have to pay a hypnotist to get to the truth. Do hypnotists travel to Africa to help hypnotize the poor?


Ok

[Blake]

Ok

why are you ok with believing in something illogical? Waste of precious time on earth, imo.

[xmas1997]

I am ok with your opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

[Blake]

That didn't answer the question

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I won't get into this pissing contest simply because it is counterproductive to the discussion at hand.
I will say that the deeper more mystical meanings that Christ gave his followers were for the "few" and not the majority.
Not even all the Apostles seemed to understand, which is shown by many of Jesus statements in the gospels.
However, Paul the Apostle seemed to understand better than the rest IMHO. Why? I cannot give you a concrete reason for my opinion so I will leave it to just an opinion based on my studies, experiences, and faith.

I also agree that Christ is here now, that He really never left, and that we are all brothers and sisters of Jesus in a symbolic sense, we just don't realize it. It could simplistically be said that the Holy Spirit is that combination of Christ and the Father, yet the truth is that it is much more than that, that it involves the creative God force in action, within and without us.
As we seek steadfastly toward God, and as we progress, (I do not mean only through the Bible, but in life) we are given eye opening experiences (revelations?) that defy coincidence, and defy explanation in the normal sense. Paul wrote of this and some of the non-canonized books that were not included in the Bible, but recently discovered, spoke of this.

What was not written down was alluded to in the canon as well, but those deeper significances and mysteries were passed on ORALLY because they could only be understood by an open and receptive soul after much seeking for them, even down to this day and age.
They are of such a gnostic nature that only the "few" are capable of realizing and understanding their truth, and would cause one to be derided and ridiculed by mainstream Christianity. In darker eras many were accused of heresy and even persecuted and killed just for knowing these deeper mysteries and mistakenly telling them to the wrong people. Clement knew of this besides Paul, and on down. This was true of the Old Testament too, and in the Kabala.

I will say that Christ becomes us and we become Christ, and that death and rebirth and so on ceases for those "few".
We are finding that reincarnation is mentioned often in the non-canonized gospels and alluded to in the canon, but never mentioned directly. Thus we have the great majority of humanity having to experience death, rebirth, and death over and over again until we finally get it right in this existence.

Thus I do not say that any of you should believe any of what I am saying about any of this, or even to take my word for it. For me, it is what it is, and has been shaped by my studies, experiences, and faith.
All of you have free will to believe what ever you want, or disbelieve what ever you want. I am content within myself to call it all "opinions" for lack of a better description, and let it be at that. And I am only here giving you another point of view that you can take or leave as each of you see fit.
The truth is there, and the truth is here within us all, and all around us, if we just seek for it, then it will find us.

You can always tell a true seeker of the truth though. They are known by their "works", and not by their words. They are humble, they are circumspect, they are true of heart, they are forgiving, they are understanding, they aid as best they can, they refrain from judging, and they are most definitely not pretentious , nor do they laud over others a superior attitude, or of possessing superior knowledge, and they do not ridicule you for lacking understanding or for disbelieving. They do however make their share of mistakes because they are human. And for this reason they are capable of making fun of themselves and the collective human folly, thus they generally have a ribald rich sense of humor, even to the extent of being sacrilegious. Laughter is one of our greatest gifts, thank God.
I Am That I Am

Paul was more certain in his declaration but seeing that he never met Jesus, I would say that would have more to do with his approach than his understanding. His intolerance of a lot of things has struck me as limited in understanding as his ethic never seemed like Jesus' ethic to me. If I were a Christian, I would ignore all of Paul's writings.

And boy do you like spouting nonsense. Things were passed orally because most people could not write back then. Civilization wide literacy is something of the last couple hundred years. Jesus couldn't read and that he was unable to finish his Kaballah is most unfortunate.

[xmas1997]

Jesus did appear to Paul. It is why Paul quit persecuting the early Christians.
And again, it does not matter to me what you choose to believe or disbelieve.
These are some of mine that I chose to share.
You are entitled to your opinion as am I, as is skull, as is everyone.
I don't ask you to believe what I say, and said as much in my post.
These beliefs are what I've learned through my studies, experiences, meditations, and conscience.
You will not draw me into a pissing contest with you just because you choose not to believe.
We both have free will to follow whatever path we will.

[Blake]

Jesus did appear to Paul. It is why Paul quit persecuting the early Christians.
And again, it does not matter to me what you choose to believe or disbelieve.
These are some of mine that I chose to share.
You are entitled to your opinion as am I, as is skull, as is everyone.
I don't ask you to believe what I say, and said as much in my post.
These beliefs are what I've learned through my studies, experiences, meditations, and conscience.

Yes, you're entitled to pick and choose what you want out of the Bible.

I've never gotten a straight answer from cherry pickers why they bother if they don't believe all of it.

[xmas1997]

That didn't answer the question

I am ok with you thinking something like hypnosis is illogical. We disagree is all.
It is a difference of opinion, something neither of us can prove or disprove.
Did that answer your question?

[xmas1997]

When you read a newspaper, or something on the internet, do you believe everything you read?
I doubt that you do, especially if you have an inquiring mind.
Besides, we are reading an account that can be skewed however one to skew the article depending on ones' agenda.
In truth, I expected no one to believe anything I wrote on here, thus no expectations.
This is only a discussion.

[DisAsTerBot]

whenever im reading a book I always disregard parts of the story that i don't like. They are much better that way.

[silverblk mystix]

Yes, you're entitled to pick and choose what you want out of the Bible.

I've never gotten a straight answer from cherry pickers why they bother if they don't believe all of it.


So do you believe that if a part or a lot of parts of the Bible are false or innaccurate - that the entire book is false?

[xmas1997]

So do you believe that if a part or a lot of parts of the Bible are false or innaccurate - that the entire book is false?

I think when you study a book of that nature, that began as an oral tradition and was subject to so many different accounts, then translated many different times, and has been interpreted by so many over the generations, all of whom had their on agendas, then logic would say that there would be inconsistencies, and even in some cases outright perversions of the original as it was told by Jesus to His followers, IMHO.

Put 20 people in a room side by side, whisper something in the ear of the person next to you and have them pass it around.
By the time it gets back to you do you think it will be the same as what you first whispered?

Whether we choose to admit it or not, most of us have selective memories.

[silverblk mystix]

I think when you study a book of that nature, that began as an oral tradition and was subject to so many different accounts, then translated many different times, and has been interpreted by so many over the generations, all of whom had their on agendas, then logic would say that there would be inconsistencies, and even in some cases outright perversions of the original as it was told by Jesus to His followers, IMHO.

Put 20 people in a room side by side, whisper something in the ear of the person next to you and have them pass it around.
By the time it gets back to you do you think it will be the same as what you first whispered?

Whether we choose to admit it or not, most of us have selective memories.


Agreed, but Blake seems to deride anyone who believes anything in the Bible - so let us see if he answers - he won't answer much either - only asks others for info - so he can then ridicule them or play games.

[Blake]

So do you believe that if a part or a lot of parts of the Bible are false or innaccurate - that the entire book is false?

from a spiritual or magical point of view, yes, if it's not 100% right, it's worthless.

You can't have contradictions or logical inconsistencies in a book ordained by an unchanging being with unlimited power, knowledge and love.

[Blake]

I think when you study a book of that nature, that began as an oral tradition and was subject to so many different accounts, then translated many different times, and has been interpreted by so many over the generations, all of whom had their on agendas, then logic would say that there would be inconsistencies, and even in some cases outright perversions of the original as it was told by Jesus to His followers, IMHO.

Put 20 people in a room side by side, whisper something in the ear of the person next to you and have them pass it around.
By the time it gets back to you do you think it will be the same as what you first whispered?

Whether we choose to admit it or not, most of us have selective memories.

Why wouldn't God just skip the first 19 people?

[Blake]

Agreed, but Blake seems to deride anyone who believes anything in the Bible - so let us see if he answers - he won't answer much either - only asks others for info - so he can then ridicule them or play games.

could you be any more of a hypocrite?

Let's see if SBM answers

[xmas1997]

Agreed, but Blake seems to deride anyone who believes anything in the Bible - so let us see if he answers - he won't answer much either - only asks others for info - so he can then ridicule them or play games.


He can ridicule me as much as he wants, it will not change my beliefs simply because I arrived at them over the years and they are mine, not his. I won't be lured into a pissing contest based on opinions just because he might choose to disagree.
He is entitled to his opinions.
My beliefs are simply that, MY particular beliefs. I don't claim any sort so superiority. I think we are all on various stages of our own paths with particular lessons we each need to learn and assimilate as best we can with the faculties that we have at any given time. I am not expressing any particular dogma, so I do not expect anyone to accept them as their own beliefs.
All I am doing is sharing what I have learned that has shaped my life up to this point in it.
I will not be able to answer a lot of his questions simply because I do not have the answer yet. And those I do answer will be my opinions.
Hopefully there will be some humor in this discussion as well. :lol

[DisAsTerBot]

Put 20 people in a room side by side, whisper something in the ear of the person next to you and have them pass it around.
By the time it gets back to you do you think it will be the same as what you first whispered?

if this is your analogy for the bible, then why would you believe it?

[silverblk mystix]

from a spiritual or magical point of view, yes, if it's not 100% right, it's worthless.


Seriously? Let us examine this...

You are completely gonna throw out the baby with the bathwater? So if there some beautiful divine spiritual revelations - the fact that there are some inconsistencies - make the spiritual revelations - worthless? You are smarter than that - aren't you?
This is where the "finger pointing to the moon" thing comes in - the scriptures are but a clue- a finger pointing at the moon - why would you focus only on the finger? ...and "miss all that heavenly glory" (to quote Bruce Lee)
Pretty closed-minded approach IMO - to completely discount what could be truth - because you falsely concluded that 1% or 7% is inaccurate -and makes the other 93% completely inaccurate.

You can't have contradictions or logical inconsistencies in a book ordained by an unchanging being with unlimited power, knowledge and love.



Well - those are a lot of assumptions there you just threw out without any kind of relevance...you would have to assume that there is some unchanging being - (I never heard of an unchanging being - nor did I ever claim it - personally), you would then have to assume that there was some universal agreement where everyone knew what unlimited power & knowledge was - and you would have to assume that everyone knew and agreed on what LOVE is....


A lot of assumptions there that would have to be addressed - before even beginning to address your statement.

[silverblk mystix]

could you be any more of a hypocrite?

Let's see if SBM answers

Nothing hypocritical - I always answer - even when I do - you don't like or understand my answer - but I answer.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Jesus did appear to Paul.

:lol of course he did.

It could be that or he could just be lying so as to try and exert control over these far flung cities. Jesus was crucified years before Paul was doing his thing. The only basis that we have for Paul's version is him telling the Gallatians that was the case. We know where Rome is, Ephesus and Galatia for example are over in what is now Turkey.

What I do know is that Paul is big on denunciation and damnation. You know he was big on stamping out an way of looking at things but his own way because he says they are damned because God told him that. He does a whole lot of it and that always struck me as different from Jesus. Except when it comes to government where Paul goes a different route.


Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

That verse always gives me a chuckle knowing who Paul is/was and where he came from. Paul wasn't there when Jesus was going to Herod's temple and throwing a fit or hiding out in the country to go to people's homes and feast it up or when he returned to Jerusalem for passover. He certainly wasn't there earlier than that although he certainly was one of the people hunting him for the government.

If you want to believe we should listen to Paul because he says so then go right ahead. I am not big on the notion of Popes and Ayatollahs myself. Might as well believe Skull at that point. He seems to think he is special in being able to tell us what is what.

[xmas1997]

from a spiritual or magical point of view, yes, if it's not 100% right, it's worthless.

You can't have contradictions or logical inconsistencies in a book ordained by an unchanging being with unlimited power, knowledge and love.

Why not? Who are those authorities who make these claims? And do you trust everything people say to you?
Also, just because something might not have 100% accuracy, does that mean it possesses no truths at all?
If just one thing were true and the rest false, then as long as that one truth is gleaned, you have gotten something out of it to benefit you, consequently making it worthwhile.


Why wouldn't God just skip the first 19 people?

He could if He chose to. Surely you did not mistake my example to be some profound truth, did you? It was merely an example of how people can skew things from the original. I am surprised you did not understand this.


if this is your analogy for the bible, then why would you believe it?

I believe what I have experienced as true in my own particular life experiences after much study. Some of what I believe today are not what I believed in my earlier life. We are shaped by our beliefs as we travel through life.
I have come to believe that we err when we take a literal view of the Bible.
But I expect no one else to share this same belief. It is what it is.
Plus most of us just believe what we want to believe anyway.

[DisAsTerBot]

I believe what I have experienced as true in my own particular life experiences after much study. Some of what I believe today are not what I believed in my earlier life. We are shaped by our beliefs as we travel through life.
I have come to believe that we err when we take a literal view of the Bible.
But I expect no one else to share this same belief. It is what it is.
Plus most of us just believe what we want to believe anyway.

your point with the analogy was that it was passed along so many times as to lose any resemblance of the original whisper. Of course our beliefs are shaped through our own journeys but then why look to the bible at all? Do you really need men from thousands of years ago to tell you to be kind to your neighbor? A lessons like that is easily learned through sympathy and empathy

[silverblk mystix]

Why not? Who are those authorities who make these claims? And do you trust everything people say to you?
Also, just because something might not have 100% accuracy, does that mean it possesses no truths at all?
If just one thing were true and the rest false, then as long as that one truth is gleaned, you have gotten something out of it to benefit you, consequently making it worthwhile.



He could if He chose to. Surely you did not mistake my example to be some profound truth, did you? It was merely an example of how people can skew things from the original. I am surprised you did not understand this.



I believe what I have experienced as true in my own particular life experiences after much study. Some of what I believe today are not what I believed in my earlier life. We are shaped by our beliefs as we travel through life.
I have come to believe that we err when we take a literal view of the Bible.
But I expect no one else to share this same belief. It is what it is.
Plus most of us just believe what we want to believe anyway.


Blake cannot understand this simple concept - of finding something worthwhile - or something good in the midst of a work of art or a text or a spiritual clue. It is black or white - all good or all bad.

Yet he believes he is qualified to judge others.

Priceless.

[silverblk mystix]

your point with the analogy was that it was passed along so many times as to lose any resemblance of the original whisper. Of course our beliefs are shaped through our own journeys but then why look to the bible at all? Do you really need men from thousands of years ago to tell you to be kind to your neighbor? A lessons like that is easily learned through sympathy and empathy

Why not look to the bible?

Why not look to everything?

Why make conclusions and close yourself off to knowledge?

Why judge those who lean on the bible or believe in it or cherry pick or whatever derisive term you throw out?

Why assume you are superior because they believe in one thing that you don't? Who said your position or stance was superior?

Truth can be found anywhere. Truth can be slapping you right in the face - - yet you might miss it because it is coming from an "inferior" place.

[Blake]

He can ridicule me as much as he wants, it will not change my beliefs simply because I arrived at them over the years and they are mine, not his. I won't be lured into a pissing contest based on opinions just because he might choose to disagree.
He is entitled to his opinions.
My beliefs are simply that, MY particular beliefs. I don't claim any sort so superiority. I think we are all on various stages of our own paths with particular lessons we each need to learn and assimilate as best we can with the faculties that we have at any given time. I am not expressing any particular dogma, so I do not expect anyone to accept them as their own beliefs.
All I am doing is sharing what I have learned that has shaped my life up to this point in it.
I will not be able to answer a lot of his questions simply because I do not have the answer yet. And those I do answer will be my opinions.
Hopefully there will be some humor in this discussion as well. :lol

I'm not ridiculing you at all, am I?

[Blake]

Well - those are a lot of assumptions there you just threw out without any kind of relevance...you would have to assume that there is some unchanging being - (I never heard of an unchanging being - nor did I ever claim it - personally), you would then have to assume that there was some universal agreement where everyone knew what unlimited power & knowledge was - and you would have to assume that everyone knew and agreed on what LOVE is....


A lot of assumptions there that would have to be addressed - before even beginning to address your statement.

Sorry, I'm not reading any red lettering.

[DisAsTerBot]

Why not look to the bible?

Why not look to everything?

Why make conclusions and close yourself off to knowledge?

Why judge those who lean on the bible or believe in it or cherry pick or whatever derisive term you throw out?

Why assume you are superior because they believe in one thing that you don't? Who said your position or stance was superior?

Truth can be found anywhere. Truth can be slapping you right in the face - - yet you might miss it because it is coming from an "inferior" place.

never said i was superior, nice assumption.

"why make conclusions and close yourself off to knowledge?" Exactly. Why look to the bible. You could have the Quran, the Torah, the Tanakh. You look to the bible because that's what your parents decided for you. Im not sure how much more closed off to knowledge you could be than that

[Blake]

Blake cannot understand this simple concept - of finding something worthwhile - or something good in the midst of a work of art or a text or a spiritual clue. It is black or white - all good or all bad.

Yet he believes he is qualified to judge others.

Priceless.

How do you figure that you're qualified to judge me, hypocrite.

[silverblk mystix]

Sorry, I'm not reading any red lettering.

There it is...

truth might slap you - but you won't sense it.

[silverblk mystix]

never said i was superior, nice assumption.

"why make conclusions and close yourself off to knowledge?" Exactly. Why look to the bible. You could have the Quran, the Torah, the Tanakh. You look to the bible because that's what your parents decided for you. Im not sure how much more closed off to knowledge you could be than that


Why not look to EVERYTHING?

When did I ever tout the bible?

I am speaking of people attacking Bible believers/supporters with disdain - as if YOU were any better or smarter? You aren't.

The only way to see truth is to be completely open to anything and everything - how could you dismiss the bible and try to argue truth and knowledge?

Only blind people do this.

[silverblk mystix]

How do you figure that you're qualified to judge me, hypocrite.

So in my answer on Life after Death...I judged you?

I answered truthfully and your response was the 3rd grade/stupidity insult...this was a stupid judgement.

Where in that answer about life after death did I judge you.

Be specific.

[DisAsTerBot]

The only way to see truth is to be completely open to anything and everything

first of all you can't "see" the truth. Second, if you(not you specifically, "you" in general) are a believer/supporter of the bible then you are most definitely not open to anything and everything.

[xmas1997]

:lol of course he did.

It could be that or he could just be lying so as to try and exert control over these far flung cities. Jesus was crucified years before Paul was doing his thing. The only basis that we have for Paul's version is him telling the Gallatians that was the case. We know where Rome is, Ephesus and Galatia for example are over in what is now Turkey.

What I do know is that Paul is big on denunciation and damnation. You know he was big on stamping out an way of looking at things but his own way because he says they are damned because God told him that. He does a whole lot of it and that always struck me as different from Jesus. Except when it comes to government where Paul goes a different route.



That verse always gives me a chuckle knowing who Paul is/was and where he came from. Paul wasn't there when Jesus was going to Herod's temple and throwing a fit or hiding out in the country to go to people's homes and feast it up or when he returned to Jerusalem for passover. He certainly wasn't there earlier than that although he certainly was one of the people hunting him for the government.

If you want to believe we should listen to Paul because he says so then go right ahead. I am not big on the notion of Popes and Ayatollahs myself. Might as well believe Skull at that point. He seems to think he is special in being able to tell us what is what.

:lol
You bring up some very interesting points. I am glad you did.
Paul was by far the harshest of the Apostles and came to the faith way after Jesus Christ had arisen as most of us know from Biblical accounts, mainly his own. :lol I feel like as harsh as he was, that he possessed the greatest sense of humor of all of them by the end. Jesus had a special purpose for Paul. He was a good example of "taking yourself too seriously" and getting in the way of yourself. That is why I most identify with Paul. I have been just as guilty of that I my early life as he was.
He was not some super human. He was subject to his own follies and undoubtedly maybe his share of mistakes, constantly running afoul of the other Apostles and teachers of the times. You could almost say he was the most judgmental of all of them.
But by the end of his life he had tempered his teachings. In other words he had evolved to a certain extent in the grace of Christ to the point where he was able to see clearer IMHO.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol
You bring up some very interesting points. I am glad you did.
Paul was by far the harshest of the Apostles and came to the faith way after Jesus Christ had arisen as most of us know from Biblical accounts, mainly his own. :lol I feel like as harsh as he was, that he possessed the greatest sense of humor of all of them by the end. Jesus had a special purpose for Paul. He was a good example of "taking yourself too seriously" and getting in the way of yourself. That is why I most identify with Paul. I have been just as guilty of that I my early life as he was.
He was not some super human. He was subject to his own follies and undoubtedly maybe his share of mistakes, constantly running afoul of the other Apostles and teachers of the times. You could almost say he was the most judgmental of all of them.
But by the end of his life he had tempered his teachings. In other words he had evolved to a certain extent in the grace of Christ to the point where he was able to see clearer IMHO.

Except all of the other Apostles did know Jesus and were sent by Jesus. They were with him during his early ministries, his tantrum at the temple, feasting while running from the law and return to Jerusalem.

[silverblk mystix]

first of all you can't "see" the truth. Second, if you(not you specifically, "you" in general) are a believer/supporter of the bible then you are most definitely not open to anything and everything.


one one can most definitely see truth ,sense truth, taste & feel truth.

one can certainly appreciate the bible, admire the writings, glean useful knowledge and remain very open to truth.

[Blake]

So in my answer on Life after Death...I judged you?

I answered truthfully and your response was the 3rd grade/stupidity insult...this was a stupid judgement.

Where in that answer about life after death did I judge you.

Be specific.


Blake cannot understand this simple concept

Damn you're stupid.

I'd prefer not to have to take this discussion to private message with xmas. Please either leave or stop being stupid. K, thanks.

[silverblk mystix]

Damn you're stupid.

I'd prefer not to have to take this discussion to private message with xmas. Please either leave or stop being stupid. K, thanks.



lol all you got is more insults

[xmas1997]

Except all of the other Apostles did know Jesus and were sent by Jesus. They were with him during his early ministries, his tantrum at the temple, feasting while running from the law and return to Jerusalem.

That is true.
Yet Jesus as Christ appeared to Paul.
Paul was the only one of them who was a gentile.
And he had his mystical experience directly through Jesus.

It goes without saying that Paul was pretty near fanatical in tracking down and persecuting the early followers. Is it such a stretch to think that he would be just as fanatical after his conversion? I think he would have been, he was still a man after all IMHO.

Again, I do not ask anyone to believe what I do. Believe whatever you feel is most comfortable until it is not comfortable. Then explore where your conscience leads you.
My studies have encompassed most of the major faiths and even Wiccan.
But my beliefs apparently were tailored to me as I grew.

[Blake]

lol all you got is more insults


This subject is way too much for you to handle on any kind of intellectual level.

If the truth is insulting to you then change it. Bring yourself up to this level by getting an education.

[silverblk mystix]

This subject is way too much for you to handle on any kind of intellectual level.

If the truth is insulting to you then change it. Bring yourself up to this level by getting an education.


Here you go again with your insults - is it possible for you to stay away from that?

Is your education level adequate for you to be informed that insults are beneath this?

I still have not insulted you but you persist in spewing these insults. When is it time to speak like adults? Is this thread one where we can agree to speak as adults?

Are you capable?

[Blake]

Here you go again with your insults - is it possible for you to stay away from that?

Is your education level adequate for you to be informed that insults are beneath this?

I still have not insulted you but you persist in spewing these insults. When is it time to speak like adults? Is this thread one where we can agree to speak as adults?

Are you capable?

You don't know anything about the Bible. Sorry, but that makes you incapable of intelligent discussion here.

[Blake]

That is true.
Yet Jesus as Christ appeared to Paul.
Paul was the only one of them who was a gentile.
And he had his mystical experience directly through Jesus.

it took Jesus having to visit Paul and blind him in order to convert him.

Why would you believe in him if he hasn't visited you too?

[xmas1997]

it took Jesus having to visit Paul and blind him in order to convert him.

Why would you believe in him if he hasn't visited you too?

Because I do not know for sure that He hasn't visited me. I suspect that He has, not in the same sense that He visited Paul, but in a different way entirely that is unexplainable and deeply personal.
But I bet He may have visited you too.
Why else would you have this unquenchable curiosity to explore this issue?
Not to mention the fact that your questions are more profound than some on here.
It could be that there are things you have learned that you do not even wish to acknowledge to yourself because they are of such a mind blowing nature that to mention them would set yourself up to ridicule.
And then, maybe there isn't. Only you know for sure, but trust and faith may be the only things lacking.
Whatever the case, you are seeking in your own way, and for that you are to be commended.
We all have our paths, and no two are alike, similar maybe, but not alike.
In a round about way I think I answered your question. :lol

[silverblk mystix]

You don't know anything about the Bible. Sorry, but that makes you incapable of intelligent discussion here.


lol

gotta love the internet - where a retarded monkey can sit at a keyboard and question/judge someone else's education and/or intelligence and at the end of the day all it means -

is that the retarded monkey was feeling a little "salty" that day.

rofl

[Blake]

Because I do not know for sure that He hasn't visited me. I suspect that He has, not in the same sense that He visited Paul, but in a different way entirely that is unexplainable.

There was no doubt he visited Paul and the disciples. I don't think it's too much to ask for him to visit in person.



Why else would you have this unquenchable curiosity to explore this issue?

I'd say it's quenchable. Honestly I was throwing out some bait for skull after his Christian scolding of Tim Duncan getting a divorce.

I like discussing Bible logic, but if you want to eject and say you believe just because you do, that's fine too.

[xmas1997]

There was no doubt he visited Paul and the disciples. I don't think it's too much to ask for him to visit in person.



I'd say it's quenchable. Honestly I was throwing out some bait for skull after his Christian scolding of Tim Duncan getting a divorce.

I like discussing Bible logic, but if you want to eject and say you believe just because you do, that's fine too.

No, I 'm ok.
I enjoy it too, otherwise I would not be here. You never know where the next nugget will come from.
As you probably read upstairs Skull and I disagreed on the Christian issue concerning divorce and before I knew it I was embroiled in a feud. Finally the thread was killed as I think it should have been in the first place.
I have to wonder though at someone who vehemently claims he has inspirations and higher knowledge, that he does not handle himself in a manner that is consistent with the virtues of Christ.
How is it you know so much about the Bible if I may ask? You said you lean the closest to agnostic viewpoints.
And have you studied any other faiths Buddhism, Brahmanism, Hinduism, or Islam? Didn't you mention Zoroastrianism?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why not look to the bible?[quote]

Because we don't know where most of it came from and much of it is obviously false. Why should you give any of it a presumption of truth given that?

[quote]Why not look to everything?

Who says we don't that is kind of the point.


Why make conclusions and close yourself off to knowledge?

When the 'knowledge' is false then there is no reason to accept it.


Why judge those who lean on the bible or believe in it or cherry pick or whatever derisive term you throw out?

Because its not true. I feel the same way about people that think the sky is purple or the Earth is flat.


Why assume you are superior because they believe in one thing that you don't? Who said your position or stance was superior?

I cannot speak for aynone else but I do not think I myself am better but I do believe that my methodology is better. I choose to live in a world where it is as its shown itself to be and not how someone else told me it is or how I want it to be.


Truth can be found anywhere. Truth can be slapping you right in the face - - yet you might miss it because it is coming from an "inferior" place.

This is incredibly naive. Untruth can be found anywhere too. when something has demonstrated to be unreliable it does not bear to reason that you assume without basis that something else from it is any different.

[silverblk mystix]

[QUOTE=silverblk mystix;6868197]Why not look to the bible?[quote]

Because we don't know where most of it came from and much of it is obviously false. Why should you give any of it a presumption of truth given that?

Who is presuming it is truth? This is why you investigate. This is why you venture into the unknown - to see if there is something there. The fact that you feel much of it is false - may or may not be accurate - but I understand this is YOUR feeling/opinion of it. There is still a chance that it is NOT false. Or the possibility that you did not understand it - or that it was mis-translated or lost in translation along the way. Still - assuming your statement has merit or is true - it does not entirely mean that the REST of it is false. There can be truth in the midst of falseness. There can be wisdom in the midst of anything.



Who says we don't that is kind of the point.

??Well - correct me if I am wrong - but you are saying that since some or most of the bible is wrong/false/inaccurate - then the rest of it is unworthy. This is closing yourself off to possible truth - or in other words - this is making a conclusion - when only a part or parts have been examined.



When the 'knowledge' is false then there is no reason to accept it.

See above. The knowledge may be "presumed" to be false by some - but may not be false to others. Who is to say one is correct and one is wrong?



Because its not true. I feel the same way about people that think the sky is purple or the Earth is flat.



I cannot speak for aynone else but I do not think I myself am better but I do believe that my methodology is better. I choose to live in a world where it is as its shown itself to be and not how someone else told me it is or how I want it to be.

??But this is exactly the world you are living in....some professors told you that this methodology was better and you swallowed it whole and now you identify with it - don't you? No different than people who oppose your views - they also believe they are seeing reality more clearly than you. Who is to say you are right - or wrong? Opinions.



This is incredibly naive. Untruth can be found anywhere too. when something has demonstrated to be unreliable it does not bear to reason that you assume without basis that something else from it is any different.


??Is it really. Maybe. Let us say that you are right. Now let us look at the opposite. Let us say that truth is buried under layers of lies/falsehoods - and you ASSUME - that it is ALL false...so you give up searching...you give up examining...the scientist gives up searching for the cure to polio - because he has only run into dead ends...he ASSUMES - there is no cure? Why should seeking truth be any different? I am not selling you the bible - nor do I promote it - or care if you subscribe - but the truth is not always black or white.

[Skull-1]

Constantinople was founded in 315 and the various councils of to codify scripture occurred. First pope was named in the 4th century. Constantine founded the Byzantine empire. You constantly cite 'Byzantine texts' and other works from the 4th century but for some reason you think that to be unrelated. As I keep saying you have zero sense of history. I haven't quoted the BMT here. I simply state that I find it a more faithful representation of the original. Feel free to post the Youtube video of Constantine defying prophecy and sticking us with a Bible containing the wrong books, please. You have no sense PERIOD, historic or otherwise.

[Skull-1]

It's actually kind of amusing. He fronts constantly about arguments he has supposedly made and how they are obvious but we are just too stupid to see. Then you call him on it. When he has no retort he makes these claims that we are not worth the time yet he literally has been here for days. It's either that or he completely ignores rebuttals

Whats important though, at the end of the day he has admitted that biblical texts are not consistent.
They are consistent enough that the gnats you strain do not matter. My simple explanations go right over your thick head. Don't ask me about more in depth things until you grasp the simple ones. Sh*thead.

[Skull-1]

it never ceases to amaze me how it seems many Christians in these type of threads either melt down or run away.

Skull happened to do both. I am still here, but not for much longer. Your original question was answered repeatedly and in depth. Every stray tangent has been answered. You are just not aware enough to see it. I can see it just fine.

[Blake]

lol

gotta love the internet - where a retarded monkey can sit at a keyboard and question/judge someone else's education and/or intelligence and at the end of the day all it means -

is that the retarded monkey was feeling a little "salty" that day.

rofl

if you can't beat em, insult them back, right?

What a hypocritical weakling.

[Skull-1]

Yes, you're entitled to pick and choose what you want out of the Bible.

I've never gotten a straight answer from cherry pickers why they bother if they don't believe all of it.I believe every word of it. But the WAY I believe it is derived from the rules scripture lays out. Not all of it is literal. It is a spiritual document. How f'ing hard is that to grasp?

[Blake]

I am still here, but not for much longer. Your original question was answered repeatedly and in depth. Every stray tangent has been answered. You are just not aware enough to see it. I can see it just fine.

No, you ran from the discussion after fuzzy dismantled you.

You are just not aware of how badly he did it to you.

[Skull-1]

from a spiritual or magical point of view, yes, if it's not 100% right, it's worthless.

You can't have contradictions or logical inconsistencies in a book ordained by an unchanging being with unlimited power, knowledge and love.The hell you can't. If His purpose is to make the book a mystery then that is a perfectly fine technique to veil the truth. Red vs. purple is not a show stopper in any way, particularly in light of other scripture.

[Skull-1]

:lol of course he did.

It could be that or he could just be lying so as to try and exert control over these far flung cities. Jesus was crucified years before Paul was doing his thing. The only basis that we have for Paul's version is him telling the Gallatians that was the case. We know where Rome is, Ephesus and Galatia for example are over in what is now Turkey.

What I do know is that Paul is big on denunciation and damnation. You know he was big on stamping out an way of looking at things but his own way because he says they are damned because God told him that. He does a whole lot of it and that always struck me as different from Jesus. Except when it comes to government where Paul goes a different route.


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Paul (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=0#post0)
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

That verse always gives me a chuckle knowing who Paul is/was and where he came from. Paul wasn't there when Jesus was going to Herod's temple and throwing a fit or hiding out in the country to go to people's homes and feast it up or when he returned to Jerusalem for passover. He certainly wasn't there earlier than that although he certainly was one of the people hunting him for the government.

If you want to believe we should listen to Paul because he says so then go right ahead. I am not big on the notion of Popes and Ayatollahs myself. Might as well believe Skull at that point. He seems to think he is special in being able to tell us what is what.Learn to quote scripture properly. He doesn't say "GOVERNING AUTHORITIES" it is "*HIGHER* AUTHORITIES". Spiritual meaning.

[Skull-1]

Except all of the other Apostles did know Jesus and were sent by Jesus. They were with him during his early ministries, his tantrum at the temple, feasting while running from the law and return to Jerusalem.
Oh come on, now, you know that Paul was just an invention of Constantine. He wasn't special in any way. He obviously put Jesus' Right Hand Man (Peter, who validated Paul, in his writings that you don't believe, btw) under his spell. Basically, we're screwed.

So, why are you appealing to a document you are discrediting, douchebag?

[Skull-1]

one one can most definitely see truth ,sense truth, taste & feel truth.

one can certainly appreciate the bible, admire the writings, glean useful knowledge and remain very open to truth.

[Skull-1]

No, you ran from the discussion after fuzzy dismantled you.

You are just not aware of how badly he did it to you.I am aware that he tried really hard. I am still waiting for his youtube video of Constantine screwing this whole thing up. See, he has to have just as much blind faith as I do to believe his position. The difference is that mine is backed up with spiritual truth and consistency, along with prophecy that dates to thousands of years before young Constantine made his appearance.

[xmas1997]

Glad you came back, skull.

[silverblk mystix]

if you can't beat em, insult them back, right?

What a hypocritical weakling.


Gave you more than enough chances to be civil - you refused - no worries...

oh - I didn't mean to insult the retarded monkeys - not all retarded monkeys are as stupid and ignorant and angry and salty as you -

:lmao

[Skull-1]

Gave you more than enough chances to be civil - you refused - no worries...

oh - I didn't mean to insult the retarded monkeys - not all retarded monkeys are as stupid and ignorant and angry and salty as you -

:lmaoGlad to see someone finally giving these two doucheheads a taste of their own medicine....

[Blake]

I am aware that he tried really hard. I am still waiting for his youtube video of Constantine screwing this whole thing up. See, he has to have just as much blind faith as I do to believe his position. The difference is that mine is backed up with spiritual truth and consistency, along with prophecy that dates to thousands of years before young Constantine made his appearance.

you can't back something with spiritual truth.

Lol.

[Blake]

Glad to see someone finally giving these two doucheheads a taste of their own medicine....

that taught me

[silverblk mystix]

Glad to see someone finally giving these two doucheheads a taste of their own medicine....

Unfortunately - it is not possible to remain respectful -

I was trying because xmas - was courteous and it looked like he got Blake to "be a gentleman" for a little while - so I tried to just enjoy a respectful conversation - but Blake is a little douche who can't help himself...so here we are.

[Blake]

The hell you can't. If His purpose is to make the book a mystery then that is a perfectly fine technique to veil the truth. Red vs. purple is not a show stopper in any way, particularly in light of other scripture.

It's not his purpose to make the book a mystery:


2 Corinthians 4

*2*Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways;we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God.*On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience*in the sight of God.

You're a hack.

[Blake]

Unfortunately - it is not possible to remain respectful -

I was trying because xmas - was courteous and it looked like he got Blake to "be a gentleman" for a little while - so I tried to just enjoy a respectful conversation - but Blake is a little douche who can't help himself...so here we are.

:cry Blake made me melt down :cry

[silverblk mystix]

It's not his purpose to make the book a mystery:



You're a hack.


What's the difference?

You use the bible to insult others and cherry pick quotes to serve your purposes...so what is the fucking difference - and you are labeling someone a hack?

What does this make you?

An angry and spiteful prick who finds stuff - out of context - and use it as a platform to be a nasty little prick?

The internet....anonymity - makes you grow huge balls.

Pathetic.

[silverblk mystix]

:cry Blake made me melt down :cry


This is all you know...all you'll ever know ....and all you are capable of.

You will be chumpie #2 in a few thousand more posts. Nice!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh come on, now, you know that Paul was just an invention of Constantine. He wasn't special in any way. He obviously put Jesus' Right Hand Man (Peter, who validated Paul, in his writings that you don't believe, btw) under his spell. Basically, we're screwed.

So, why are you appealing to a document you are discrediting, douchebag?

I never said any of this. I am pointing to the inconsistencies in the Bible. When two things contradict then one of the has to be wrong if they are mutually exclusive. Something that is one color cannot be of another. Our understanding of EM radiation explains this very clearly.

Paul hardly saw eye to eye with Peter. Review 2nd Peter and Galatians and try again.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Learn to quote scripture properly. He doesn't say "GOVERNING AUTHORITIES" it is "*HIGHER* AUTHORITIES". Spiritual meaning.

I quoted one translation. We know that you think your interpretation is the only one with merit narcissist. You haven't gone to the shrink yet have you?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They are consistent enough that the gnats you strain do not matter. My simple explanations go right over your thick head. Don't ask me about more in depth things until you grasp the simple ones. Sh*thead.


There are about 9,166 differences between the Majority Text and the combined errors in Vaticanus and Sinaiticus in the four Gospels alone.

From your source. Over 9,000 discrepancies in the three versions mentioned here for the 4 gospels alone. You can resort to qualitative semantics like "consistent enough" and I will use your source to show a hard number that allows people to make an objective judgment of their own.

You can front why you are only discussing the veneer all you like but you are not discussing anything meaningful by your own admission. It is what it is. I still say you are a coward.

[Blake]

How is it you know so much about the Bible if I may ask? You said you lean the closest to agnostic viewpoints.
And have you studied any other faiths Buddhism, Brahmanism, Hinduism, or Islam? Didn't you mention Zoroastrianism?

12 years of Christian school Bible classes, a couple of years of seminary. Lol even took a Bible as Literature class at Texas Tech for an easy A.

Yes, in depth studies on all major religions of the world. Came a hair away from being an ordained suthrn baptist preacha.

Fuzzy could teach a course, imo.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I haven't quoted the BMT here. I simply state that I find it a more faithful representation of the original. Feel free to post the Youtube video of Constantine defying prophecy and sticking us with a Bible containing the wrong books, please. You have no sense PERIOD, historic or otherwise.

I am talking about the history of the church. I don't need youtube because I can express it on my own. You STILL cannot rebut a word of it. While you may not have quoted it you have cited it multiple times as proof of constancy. It's nice to here that you cite something you deem less than the best though.

[Blake]

What's the difference?

You use the bible to insult others and cherry pick quotes to serve your purposes...so what is the fucking difference - and you are labeling someone a hack?

What does this make you?

An angry and spiteful prick who finds stuff - out of context - and use it as a platform to be a nasty little prick?

The internet....anonymity - makes you grow huge balls.

Pathetic.

If it was pure truth, free of contradictions, I wouldn't be able to cherry pick.

damn you're stupid.

[Skull-1]

It's not his purpose to make the book a mystery:



You're a hack.Yeah, it is. I posted nearly fifty passages to prove it. Glad you ignored them, dipsh*t.

I am right.


You, however, are a troll. And a stupid one at that.

[Skull-1]

I am talking about the history of the church. I don't need youtube because I can express it on my own. You STILL cannot rebut a word of it. While you may not have quoted it you have cited it multiple times as proof of constancy. It's nice to here that you cite something you deem less than the best though.
God veils the truth. What we have is the best there is and that's the way God intended it. The Tower of Babel is a parable that applies quite well to the confusion in Christianity. That's why it is a mystery. This history of the church is quite corrupt, yet God's word prevailed for the few who have spiritual eyes to see. Worked out just as prophecy said it would.

[Skull-1]

From your source. Over 9,000 discrepancies in the three versions mentioned here for the 4 gospels alone. You can resort to qualitative semantics like "consistent enough" and I will use your source to show a hard number that allows people to make an objective judgment of their own.

You can front why you are only discussing the veneer all you like but you are not discussing anything meaningful by your own admission. It is what it is. I still say you are a coward.

Discrepancies meaning transcription errors, etc. that are easily discerned. And even with these errors enough of the truth remains that NOTHING CHANGES to the spiritual.

Give it up moron. You are overmatched.


Coward? You wouldn't say that to my face because they would bury your ignorant ass under your hat.

Yeah, it takes a real coward to argue with an endless stream of douchebag liars with nothing but contempt for anyone who sees what they can't.

[Skull-1]

I quoted one translation. We know that you think your interpretation is the only one with merit...
That is correct.

I prefer my condition of spiritual awareness to yours of carnal stupidity. Bring it on idiot. Keep it coming. You are a clown and a caricature.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

God veils the truth. What we have is the best there is and that's the way God intended it. The Tower of Babel is a parable that applies quite well to the confusion in Christianity. That's why it is a mystery. This history of the church is quite corrupt, yet God's word prevailed for the few who have spiritual eyes to see. Worked out just as prophecy said it would.

So your so stupid that you believe man all spoke one language and tried to build a tower to heaven?

Oh that's right you just dismiss the obvious absurdities and double down by making up whatever shit you like. It's not like I haven't heard this bullshit that is a thinly veiled excuse for the authority of the clergy. Or as in this case, for narcissists fronting as if they can discern the mystery that everyone else cannot.

[Skull-1]

I never said any of this. I am pointing to the inconsistencies in the Bible. When two things contradict then one of the has to be wrong if they are mutually exclusive. Something that is one color cannot be of another. Our understanding of EM radiation explains this very clearly.

Paul hardly saw eye to eye with Peter. Review 2nd Peter and Galatians and try again.

Paul wrote half the Epistles before Peter even wrote one book. How about *YOU* read it and try again, jerkoff. Paul was the one who shook Peter back to sanity. TRY AGAIN you ignoramous.

The Bible is perfectly consistent. We have already explained the color issue in multiple ways. End of day it does NOT matter. People can perceive a COLOR differently, too, just as my two eyes do not see every color the same. The spiritual truth behind it is what matters. I have already nuked the color argument. Pick something else, jerkoff, or just keep ignoring the truth that I have bitch slapped you both with quite thoroughly.

LMAO at some moron straining over hues on a robe. Pathetic that this is the best you've got, you carnal, inspid, beast.

[Skull-1]

What's the difference?

You use the bible to insult others and cherry pick quotes to serve your purposes...so what is the fucking difference - and you are labeling someone a hack?

What does this make you?

An angry and spiteful prick who finds stuff - out of context - and use it as a platform to be a nasty little prick?

The internet....anonymity - makes you grow huge balls.

Pathetic.
Indeed. They would wilt before me in person, I guarantee you that. Sissies. Internet toughguys with no brains.

[Skull-1]

So your so stupid that you believe man all spoke one language and tried to build a tower to heaven?

Oh that's right you just dismiss the obvious absurdities and double down by making up whatever shit you like. It's not like I haven't heard this bullshit that is a thinly veiled excuse for the authority of the clergy. Or as in this case, for narcissists fronting as if they can discern the mystery that everyone else cannot.

Authority of the clergy? The clergy have no authority. They are liars.


NOTE TO ALL THAT FUZZY CONTINUES TO LIE: AT NO POINT DID I EVER SAY THAT I BELIEVED THE WORLD SPOKE ONE LANGUAGE, ETC. AS D*CKHEAD ASSERTS. In fact, I have repeatedly stated the opposite, that the Tower of Babel is 1) NOT literal. 2) It did NOT happen. 3) It is a PARABLE with a veiled spiritual truth.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Discrepancies meaning transcription errors, etc. that are easily discerned. And even with these errors enough of the truth remains that NOTHING CHANGES to the spiritual.

Give it up moron. You are overmatched.


Coward? You wouldn't say that to my face because they would bury your ignorant ass under your hat.

Yeah, it takes a real coward to argue with an endless stream of douchebag liars with nothing but contempt for anyone who sees what they can't.

Easily discerned? They don't even have the original copies to make that claim. He is, as I pointed out in my original rebuttal which can be found HERE (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222587&page=16&p=6867264&viewfull=1#post6867264) and that you have since ignored, using confirmation bias and wishful thinking to come to his conclusion. He speaks to things like the motives of teh scribes that he has no way of knowing. He makes the assumption that the copy he likes is the 'right' one and the ones he doesn't like to be 'errors.' It's pretty transparent.

When you address one of my rebuttals directly will be the first time.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Paul wrote half the Epistles before Peter even wrote one book. How about *YOU* read it and try again, jerkoff. Paul was the one who shook Peter back to sanity. TRY AGAIN you ignoramous.

The Bible is perfectly consistent. We have already explained the color issue in multiple ways. End of day it does NOT matter. People can perceive a COLOR differently, too, just as my two eyes do not see every color the same. The spiritual truth behind it is what matters. I have already nuked the color argument. Pick something else, jerkoff, or just keep ignoring the truth that I have bitch slapped you both with quite thoroughly.

LMAO at some moron straining over hues on a robe. Pathetic that this is the best you've got, you carnal, inspid, beast.

Claiming that people can perceive things differently doesn't help your cause. If you need me to explain it I will happy to. Way to undermine your notion of constancy though.

[Skull-1]

Easily discerned? They don't even have the original copies to make that claim. He is, as I pointed out in my original rebuttal which can be found HERE (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222587&page=16&p=6867264&viewfull=1#post6867264) and that you have since ignored, using confirmation bias and wishful thinking to come to his conclusion. He speaks to things like the motives of teh scribes that he has no way of knowing. He makes the assumption that the copy he likes is the 'right' one and the ones he doesn't like to be 'errors.' It's pretty transparent.

When you address one of my rebuttals directly will be the first time.

Yet what we have is amazing and consistent, to the discerning. The lying pen of the scribes in our modern translations can't even hide the truth from those of us who have been given spiritual eyes--for the rest of you, sorry to say, you got hosed.

It is the Word of God, but it is not for the carnal.

Keep trying numbnuts. Keep trying.

[Skull-1]

Claiming that people can perceive things differently doesn't help your cause. If you need me to explain it I will happy to. Way to undermine your notion of constancy though.


It only undermines it to someone like you with blinders on who is too stupid to get it. THE COLOR IS NOT RELEVANT.

Keep trying douchebag. You have been refuted and buried, but you keep returning to your own vomit to eat.

[Skull-1]

Glad you came back, skull.

I'm not. This is the same argument over and over and over. It is a waste of time arguing with carnal beasts.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Authority of the clergy? The clergy have no authority. They are liars.


NOTE TO ALL THAT FUZZY CONTINUES TO LIE: AT NO POINT DID I EVER SAY THAT I BELIEVED THE WORLD SPOKE ONE LANGUAGE, ETC. AS D*CKHEAD ASSERTS. In fact, I have repeatedly stated the opposite, that the Tower of Babel is 1) NOT literal. 2) It did NOT happen. 3) It is a PARABLE with a veiled spiritual truth.



:lol veiled spiritual truth.

What he really means is it's a made up story.


And you have zero concept of techniques in argumentation. Considering your usage of that syntax 'are you so stupid' before you should have realized that I was mocking you. You can call me stupid but I can point to supporting arguments like this when calling you something like naive or suffering fron NPD.

[Skull-1]

12 years of Christian school Bible classes, a couple of years of seminary. Lol even took a Bible as Literature class at Texas Tech for an easy A.

Yes, in depth studies on all major religions of the world. Came a hair away from being an ordained suthrn baptist preacha.

Fuzzy could teach a course, imo.


No wonder you don't know what you are talking about. Cretins always lie. Your moronic teachers would run away from me in tears if they ever debated scripture with me. They are the liars in Titus and Timothy who teach things they should not teach for sordid gain. They substitute their traditions for the word of God. Now I get why you are such a bible retard. The old wine has you drunk and fat.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not. This is the same argument over and over and over. It is a waste of time arguing with carnal beasts.

It's doesn't have to be. You could actually discuss the history of the first three centuries of the church with me but you are obviously afraid to. You still cannot even graps the role that Constantine played in the beginning of the 4th century as evidenced by your flailing around the matter.

It's only the same argument because your scope is so limited.

[Skull-1]

:lol veiled spiritual truth.

What he really means is it's a made up story.


And you have zero concept of techniques in argumentation. Considering your usage of that syntax 'are you so stupid' before you should have realized that I was mocking you. You can call me stupid but I can point to supporting arguments like this when calling you something like naive or suffering fron NPD.

You have zero concept of techniques in reading comprehension.

Mock away, idiot. You lie left and right and then pat yourself on the back for your cleverness.

(And I go back and fix my syntax errors later. That's why most of my posts have EDIT notations at the end. Unlike you, the f**king retard who babbled on for 11 pages about Axis 1 when he meant Axis 2 and made a complete ass of himself. I'm laughing at the "superior intellect" there Khan.)

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No wonder you don't know what you are talking about. Cretins always lie. Your moronic teachers would run away from me in tears if they ever debated scripture with me. They are the liars in Titus and Timothy who teach things they should not teach for sordid gain. They substitute their traditions for the word of God. Now I get why you are such a bible retard. The old wine has you drunk and fat.

So you also get to pick and choose. Cretins always lie but your chosen in Paul couldn't possibly. You wouldn't know logical consistency if it punched you in the face.

[Skull-1]

So you also get to pick and choose. Cretins always lie but your chosen in Paul couldn't possibly. You wouldn't know logical consistency if it punched you in the face.
Well, I bet there are a lot of people that would LOVE to punch you in the face. No question.

Paul couldn't possibly, that's correct. Paul was consistent with Christ down the line.


We "pick and choose" according to the RULES OF SCRIPTURE.

[Blake]

Yet what we have is amazing and consistent, to the discerning. The lying pen of the scribes in our modern translations can't even hide the truth from those of us who have been given spiritual eyes--for the rest of you, sorry to say, you got hosed.

It is the Word of God, but it is not for the carnal.

Keep trying numbnuts. Keep trying.

Since you have it figured out and I don't, what prize is God going to give you that he won't give me?

[Skull-1]

Since you have it figured out and I don't, what prize is God going to give you that he won't give me?Don't worry about it.

Learn to accept the scarlet and purple issue then we can move on to other things. Until I get you out of Day Care I can't possibly teach you Pre-K.

[Blake]

No wonder you don't know what you are talking about. Cretins always lie. Your moronic teachers would run away from me in tears if they ever debated scripture with me. They are the liars in Titus and Timothy who teach things they should not teach for sordid gain. They substitute their traditions for the word of God. Now I get why you are such a bible retard. The old wine has you drunk and fat.

Lol

[Blake]

Don't worry about it.

Learn to accept the scarlet and purple issue then we can move on to other things. Until I get you out of Day Care I can't possibly teach you Pre-K.

Again, I'm not worried about it, just curious.

Again, why are you scared about talking about the after life? Are you afraid I might take your spot in Heaven?

[Skull-1]

It's doesn't have to be. You could actually discuss the history of the first three centuries of the church with me but you are obviously afraid to. You still cannot even graps the role that Constantine played in the beginning of the 4th century as evidenced by your flailing around the matter.

It's only the same argument because your scope is so limited.
Constantine was a minor figure. The history of the church is man made, just as you claim the Scriptures are, yet you give it unflinching validity. Sorry. Not buying your "logical argument technique" there, big shot.

The Biblical cannon wound up as prophesied in the "Old Testament" (not my term). It took CENTURIES, not just one stupid council that wound up not accomplishing a whole lot. It was already fairly well codified before Constantine was even born.

You stick with your stupid belief that a man-made, fragmentary, completely biased history is infallible. Go right ahead with that. Let Dr. Phil know how that works out for ya.

[Skull-1]

Again, I'm not worried about it, just curious.

Again, why are you scared about talking about the after life? Are you afraid I might take your spot in Heaven?
I am not wasting my time answering any more of your questions. I told you that already. When you present evidence of a humble spirit ready to learn then I will put forth more effort.

I have explained things to you over and over and over and over and over. I am not going to start down another topic for your entertainment.

[Blake]

Constantine was a minor figure. The history of the church is man made, just as you claim the Scriptures are, yet you give it unflinching validity. Sorry. Not buying your "logical argument technique" there, big shot.

Wow, you really are horrible at logic. And reading comprehension.

[Blake]

I am not wasting my time answering any more of your questions. I told you that already. When you present evidence of a humble spirit ready to learn then I will put forth more effort.

I have explained things to you over and over and over and over and over. I am not going to start down another topic for your entertainment.

You have no problem blowing hot air about veiled truths. Why are you such a chicken shit now regarding the after life? That's really the whole point of it all, isn't it?

Seriously, no joking, why are you afraid?

[Skull-1]

Wow, you really are horrible at logic. And reading comprehension.

There is no logic to be seen from either of you twits anywhere in this thread.

[Skull-1]

You have no problem blowing hot air about veiled truths. Why are you such a chicken shit now?

Seriously, no joking, why are you afraid?

I am not allowed to share these mysteries with you. Afraid? Of you? LMFAO. I am not afraid of anyone or anything anywhere, especially some zit faced jackass behind a computer monitor or his inispid, insincere questions.

You have a PhD in theology from Acme University, go look it up.

What's your theory on what Christianity teaches? Step up to the plate there, winkie.

[Blake]

There is no logic to be seen from either of you twits anywhere in this thread.

Right, because you suck at logic and reading comprehension.

round and round.

[Skull-1]

Right, because you suck at logic and reading comprehension.

round and round.

I have provided the keys. You two morons are the ones who can't read or comprehend.

[silverblk mystix]

Again, I'm not worried about it, just curious.

Again, why are you scared about talking about the after life? Are you afraid I might take your spot in Heaven?

Why are you even bringing up the after life?

If you are nothing but a douchebag in this life - why the fuckin' preoccupation with another life?

lmao - you can't wait to be a little douche in another life!


:lmao


State of the world today - idiots that don't know what the fuck to do with this life - yet they are pre-occupied and quarreling over the NEXT life!

And YOU dare call others derogatory names?



lololololololololol

[Skull-1]

Why are you even bringing up the after life?

If you are nothing but a douchebag in this life - why the fuckin' preoccupation with another life?

lmao - you can't wait to be a little douche in another life!


:lmao


State of the world today - idiots that don't know what the fuck to do with this life - yet they are pre-occupied and quarreling over the NEXT life!

And YOU dare call others derogatory names?



lololololololololol


LMAO! That's classic!

:rollin

[Blake]

I am not allowed to share these mysteries with you.

Your unbroken scripture says the complete opposite. Why are you scared to share?


You have a PhD in theology from Acme University, go look it up.

I can't research your opinion on the after life, idiot.


What's your theory on what Christianity teaches? Step up to the plate there, winkie.

Believe that Jesus is lord, that he died for your sins, repent, free ticket to Heaven.

We can discuss what Heaven might mean including the New Earth, but first, let's hear your opinion on what prize you will get that the heathen won't.

Your turn. Go.

[silverblk mystix]

LMAO! That's classic!

:rollin


Blake: "As you can see from my resume -12 years of Christian school Bible classes, a couple of years of seminary. Lol even took a Bible as Literature class at Texas Tech for an easy A.

I am a humble, respectful & courteous human being - because I was taught really well - so - when can I get to the NEXT life so I can continue this Christ-like behavior"



:rollin:rollin

[Blake]

Why are you even bringing up the after life?

If you are nothing but a douchebag in this life - why the fuckin' preoccupation with another life?

lmao - you can't wait to be a little douche in another life!


:lmao


State of the world today - idiots that don't know what the fuck to do with this life - yet they are pre-occupied and quarreling over the NEXT life!

And YOU dare call others derogatory names?



lololololololololol

Skull is the one claiming he's got the Bible figured out. I want to know what his prize will be.

Damn you are unintelligent........and melting down right on schedule.

[Blake]

Blake: "As you can see from my resume -12 years of Christian school Bible classes, a couple of years of seminary. Lol even took a Bible as Literature class at Texas Tech for an easy A.

I am a humble, respectful & courteous human being - because I was taught really well - so - when can I get to the NEXT life so I can continue this Christ-like behavior"



:rollin:rollin

I'm not Christ like at all. I'm also not claiming to know the truth like both you and skull are.

but keep making it about me instead of the topic.

smh unintelligent.

[silverblk mystix]

Skull is the one claiming he's got the Bible figured out. I want to know what his prize will be.

Damn you are unintelligent........and melting down right on schedule.

Well, I have an excuse - I didn't waste 15 years of my life being trained to be a blind hater - and you are displaying all your training every day here.

Nice job!

You represent well!

[xmas1997]

I'm not. This is the same argument over and over and over. It is a waste of time arguing with carnal beasts.


That is easy, arguing, I mean.
What is not so easy but much preferable is to not argue at all.
Do not be so consumed that anyone believes you or disbelievers you. It is a yoke, a burden that is not needed.
All it takes is stop arguing.
Say what you feel needs to be said and let it stand on it's own.
You do not have to prove anything to anyone and vice versa.
It is what it is.
And you are definitely right IMHO that the deeper truths are for the "few", but if they are known they are not to be gloated about. They are too precious for that sort of motivation.
Just remember that your particular path does not have to be anybody elses' path.
And their path may be just as valid.
In the end it is all one truth.

[Skull-1]

Your unbroken scripture says the complete opposite. Why are you scared to share?Really, now? Well teach us, Rabbi.




I can't research your opinion on the after life, idiot. Well, IDIOT, if I am aligned with scripture and you are a master at it, then you should be able to tell me what I believe--or should believe. Let's go bitch.

[Skull-1]

Blake: "As you can see from my resume -12 years of Christian school Bible classes, a couple of years of seminary. Lol even took a Bible as Literature class at Texas Tech for an easy A.

I am a humble, respectful & courteous human being - because I was taught really well - so - when can I get to the NEXT life so I can continue this Christ-like behavior"



:rollin:rollinFinally some humor in this thread--that points out the guy's blatant douchebaggery, to boot.

[Skull-1]

Well, I have an excuse - I didn't waste 15 years of my life being trained to be a blind hater - and you are displaying all your training every day here.

Nice job!

You represent well!
Looks like flake learned a new phrase: Melting down. Parrots it in every post.

[Skull-1]

That is easy, arguing, I mean.
What is not so easy but much preferable is to not argue at all.
Do not be so consumed that anyone believes you or disbelievers you. It is a yoke, a burden that is not needed.
All it takes is stop arguing.
Say what you feel needs to be said and let it stand on it's own.
You do not have to prove anything to anyone and vice versa.
It is what it is.
And you are definitely right IMHO that the deeper truths are for the "few", but if they are known they are not to be gloated about. They are too precious for that sort of motivation.
Just remember that your particular path does not have to be anybody elses' path.
And their path may be just as valid.
In the end it is all one truth.I am hardly gloating. I did not arrive at this truth on my own power. As I have said before, it would be like bragging over winning the lottery.

[Skull-1]

Skull is the one claiming he's got the Bible figured out. Not entirely. But I have some of the major aspects down. God is still revealing things in His way and in His time.

[RD2191]

Blake what's your beef with God? It's not his fault your wife was porking the milk man.

[DMC]

God believers = liars

God disbelievers = pigeons

If you want a debate on theism vs atheism, you'll need to find other venues. This is probably the same fat fuzzy headed faggot talking to himself over and over par per etc...

[Skull-1]

God believers = liars

God disbelievers = pigeons

If you want a debate on theism vs atheism, you'll need to find other venues. This is probably the same fat fuzzy headed faggot talking to himself over and over par per etc...
I will bite. Why am I liar because I believe in God?

[TE]

God believers = liars

God disbelievers = pigeons

If you want a debate on theism vs atheism, you'll need to find other venues. This is probably the same fat fuzzy headed faggot talking to himself over and over par per etc...
:lol tbh

I don't know why people go back and forth over this topic. It's a waste of time and bandwidth.

You either have faith or not, for whatever reason.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Paul wrote half the Epistles before Peter even wrote one book. How about *YOU* read it and try again, jerkoff. Paul was the one who shook Peter back to sanity. TRY AGAIN you ignoramous.

The Bible is perfectly consistent. We have already explained the color issue in multiple ways. End of day it does NOT matter. People can perceive a COLOR differently, too, just as my two eyes do not see every color the same. The spiritual truth behind it is what matters. I have already nuked the color argument. Pick something else, jerkoff, or just keep ignoring the truth that I have bitch slapped you both with quite thoroughly.

LMAO at some moron straining over hues on a robe. Pathetic that this is the best you've got, you carnal, inspid, beast.

I said they didn't see eye to eye. I never made any temporal claims.

Paul and Peter clearly did not see eye to eye. I am glad that you choose the one that wasn't learning from Jesus for 4 years but instead the guy that according to an anonymous source saw Jesus in a 'vision.' Cretins always lie, huh?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I will bite. Why am I liar because I believe in God?

You're naive because of that. I would say that you are a liar because you claim to know astronauts, Saudi royals and Stephen Hawking personally and that you are a published sci-fi author.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Constantine was a minor figure. The history of the church is man made, just as you claim the Scriptures are, yet you give it unflinching validity. Sorry. Not buying your "logical argument technique" there, big shot.

The Biblical cannon wound up as prophesied in the "Old Testament" (not my term). It took CENTURIES, not just one stupid council that wound up not accomplishing a whole lot. It was already fairly well codified before Constantine was even born.

You stick with your stupid belief that a man-made, fragmentary, completely biased history is infallible. Go right ahead with that. Let Dr. Phil know how that works out for ya.

So the guy that converted the Roman empire to Christianity and commissioned a central dogma for the faith is insignificant. He prompted the movement and paid church leaders. Now the council of Nice didn't accomplish much? I guess the first attempts for a singular centralized canon as well as several major points of theology which remain nearly 2000 years later don't matter..... the texts that you keep citing from that time don't matter. Like I have said in the past you wouldn't know logical consistency if it punched you in the face.

And tell a rabbi that the new testament was 'prophesised.'

And how the fuck do you get that I think it's infallible? I know it took centuries, youre the one that has no interest in what actually happened in those centuries. You just gloss it over with 'accident of man and intent of God' bullshit which is straight out of middle century tap dancing about free will.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, I bet there are a lot of people that would LOVE to punch you in the face. No question.

Paul couldn't possibly, that's correct. Paul was consistent with Christ down the line.


We "pick and choose" according to the RULES OF SCRIPTURE.

Jesus defied Herod and the temple leaders of the time. Paul said you should obey authority because they were placed there by God. Jesus did not think that government figure was there by God although the same Roman authority Paul is lauding was governing.

Plese show me the list of rules of scripture. You are so full of shit it is sickening.

[Skull-1]

I said they didn't see eye to eye. I never made any temporal claims.

Paul and Peter clearly did not see eye to eye. I am glad that you choose the one that wasn't learning from Jesus for 4 years but instead the guy that according to an anonymous source saw Jesus in a 'vision.' Cretins always lie, huh? They did not see eye to eye early in their relationship because Peter had backslid, retard. And Peter came back around with Paul's help. Keep up, dipsh*t.

[Skull-1]

You're naive because of that. I would say that you are a liar because you claim to know astronauts, Saudi royals and Stephen Hawking personally and that you are a published sci-fi author.You would say that and you would be wrong. But I don't give a sh*t about you or what you think so please forgive me for not crying a river over what you do or don't think of my factual claims. As for being naïve, I would say that fits you like a glove. And you are a hypocrite to boot with your man love for fallible human history, using same in a futile effort to disprove the remarkable word of God--which has not only withstood centuries of idiots like you, but prophesied of it all long before you were a mistaken thought in your parents' minds.

[Skull-1]

Jesus defied Herod and the temple leaders of the time. Paul said you should obey authority because they were placed there by God. Jesus did not think that government figure was there by God although the same Roman authority Paul is lauding was governing.

Plese show me the list of rules of scripture. You are so full of shit it is sickening. PAUL SAID TO *OBEY* *HIGHER* AUTHORITIES. NOT lower authorities. Not man-made authorities. And NEVER are we to obey an unrighteous anything. "We must obey God over any human authority." Did you miss that passage, dickface? Give it up. Your goose is cooked.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They did not see eye to eye early in their relationship because Peter had backslid, retard. And Peter came back around with Paul's help. Keep up, dipsh*t.

:lol backslid. Uh huh. they had different visions. Please show me the passage where Peter capitulated.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You would say that and you would be wrong. But I don't give a sh*t about you or what you think so please forgive me for not crying a river over what you do or don't think of my factual claims. As for being naïve, I would say that fits you like a glove. And you are a hypocrite to boot with your man love for fallible human history, using same in a futile effort to disprove the remarkable word of Go--which has not only withstood centuries of idiots like you, but prophesied of it all long before you were a mistaken thought in your parents' minds.

Provide one shread of evidence.

[Skull-1]

So the guy that converted the Roman empire to Christianity and commissioned a central dogma for the faith is insignificant. He prompted the movement and paid church leaders. Now the council of Nice didn't accomplish much? I guess the first attempts for a singular centralized canonas well as several major points of theology which remain nearly 2000 years later don't matter..... the texts that you keep citing from that time don't matter. Like I have said in the past you wouldn't know logical consistency if it punched you in the face.

And tell a rabbi that the new testament was 'prophesised.'

And how the fuck do you get that I think it's infallible? I know it took centuries, youre the one that has no interest in what actually happened in those centuries. You just gloss it over with 'accident of man and intent of God' bullshit which is straight out of middle century tap dancing about free will.We have will but it is not free. I won't even try to go into that with you because you can't even get colors settled in your feeble mind. 1) Christanity is flawed and does not align with scripture. 2) Constantine was just as screwed up as the Catholic Church, any Protestant faith, and all evangelists. 3) The creeds and dictates that came out of that council also do not align with scripture. The are kept now as tradition by the blind. 4) The scriptures that we have are absolutely consistent enough to prove the truth of God's Word. However, even the plain things are lost on people like you, so any supposed inconsistency, while resolvable to the spiritual man, is a complete stumbling block to the carnal. 5) Anything and everything put out by Constantine or any church since, has ZERO credibility or alignment with Christ's Church. 6) Thank you for finally admitting your error and lie. Yes, it was a first attempt, and it failed. Just like everything since has failed with the exception that the Bible canon wound up exactly as prophesied. It is the lampstand in the darkness. Now stfu before you get another mental beatdown.

[Skull-1]

Provide one shread of evidence.I don't have to. I am not into proving myself to worthless pieces of garbage such as yourself.

[Skull-1]

:lol backslid. Uh huh. they had different visions. Please show me the passage where Peter capitulated.Read his writings. That should suffice.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

PAUL SAID TO *OBEY* *HIGHER* AUTHORITIES. NOT lower authorities. Not man-made authorities. And NEVER are we to obey an unrighteous anything. "We must obey God over any human authority." Did you miss that passage, dickface? Give it up. Your goose is cooked.

Paul was writing to the Romans and obey the Romans.

Oh I get that god supposedly trumps all but it is what it is. Jesus and Paul differed on many points. Things like the kingdom of god, baptism, repentance, faith, the nature of what jesus represented, women, etc. This discord has been a central issue of dispute in theology for a thousand years.

We all know that you think yours is the only interpretation but to dismiss the schism is intellectually dishonest.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Read his writings. That should suffice.

I am saying they don't exist. this is precisely why I call you a coward.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't have to. I am not into proving myself to worthless pieces of garbage such as yourself.

You are making the claim to the board. I am just the one calling oyu on it. How do you think this makes you look to anyone else who is reading this? You don't care about EVERYONE else either? Then why did you make the claim in the first place?

Someone willing to lie to try and assert authority such as you should understand full well why there is skepticism towards the bible.

[Skull-1]

Paul was writing to the Romans and obey the Romans.

Oh I get that god supposedly trumps all but it is what it is. Jesus and Paul differed on many points. Things like the kingdom of god, baptism, repentance, faith, the nature of what jesus represented, women, etc. This discord has been a central issue of dispute in theology for a thousand years.

We all know that you think yours is the only interpretation but to dismiss the schism is intellectually dishonest. Ah, yes hermeneutics. It has no application to us at all. Uh, huh. This is where your carnal mind fails you. The scriptures have to align. One cannot obey God over ANY human authority and then be subject to all human authority. There is no schism. It is the difference between a carnal, stupid man like you, and a spiritual, intelligent (because "the Holy Spirit leads us to all truth") man like me. Lower authority. Higher authority. Keep up, dummy. Come on. You can do it. Well, probably not.

[Skull-1]

You are making the claim to the board. I am just the one calling oyu on it. How do you think this makes you look to anyone else who is reading this? You don't care about EVERYONE else either? Then why did you make the claim in the first place?

Someone willing to lie to try and assert authority such as you should understand full well why there is skepticism towards the bible. My claims about scripture have nothing to do with my background. The two are not related other than I have the carnal background to go toe-to-toe with any of you. Be like the Bereans and search the scriptures to see if I am telling the truth. If God wants you to accept the truth you will see it. Who I am or what I do has no bearing on my authority regarding the scriptures.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We have will but it is not free. I won't even try to go into that with you because you can't even get colors settled in your feeble mind. 1) Christanity is flawed and does not align with scripture. 2) Constantine was just as screwed up as the Catholic Church, any Protestant faith, and all evangelists. 3) The creeds and dictates that came out of that council also do not align with scripture. The are kept now as tradition by the blind. 4) The scriptures that we have are absolutely consistent enough to prove the truth of God's Word. However, even the plain things are lost on people like you, so any supposed inconsistency, while resolvable to the spiritual man, is a complete stumbling block to the carnal. 5) Anything and everything put out by Constantine or any church since, has ZERO credibility or alignment with Christ's Church. 6) Thank you for finally admitting your error and lie. Yes, it was a first attempt, and it failed. Just like everything since has failed with the exception that the Bible canon wound up exactly as prophesied. It is the lampstand in the darkness. Now stfu before you get another mental beatdown.

then the Byzantine text and everything subsequent is called into question considering Constantine founded the Byzantine Empire ie the eastern roman empire. you really don't know shit outside of your box and it's funny

and :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:l ol:lol at this:


Constantine was just as screwed up as the Catholic Church, any Protestant faith, and all evangelists.

Your narcissism is a sight to behold.

[Skull-1]

I am saying they don't exist. this is precisely why I call you a coward.They have existed since they were written. We have them now. You can say what you want. Calling a donkey a duck doesn't make it quack, bubba. You are just a pathetic little man with zero spiritual insight and minimal intellect. People would listen to you at great peril.

[Skull-1]

then the Byzantine text and everything subsequent is called into question considering Constantine founded the Byzantine Empire ie the eastern roman empire. you really don't know shit outside of your box and it's funny


And yet the scriptures we have, that you claim he commissioned, disprove virtually everything you say he enacted. Looks like God was a little smarter than him and is a lot smarter than you. (And again, I think the BMT is better, but nobody is using it right now so put your strawman away.) Come on, loser. Keep up. (Are you tired of getting your ass kicked yet?)

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My claims about scripture have nothing to do with my background. The two are not related other than I have the carnal background to go toe-to-toe with any of you. Be like the Bereans and search the scriptures to see if I am telling the truth. If God wants you to accept the truth you will see. Who I am or what I do has no bearing on my authority regarding the scriptures.

Ihave searched the scriptures and didn't find them. You are unable to show them so yeah. Remember how I keep pointing out how you do is make claims and never back them up? More of the same it seems.

You are the one that brought up those things, doubled down on it with the Saudi royal bullshit and it certainly speaks to your credibility. You have none because of it. Posture some more about how you don't care you cannot prove you are not a liar.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And yet the scriptures we have, that you claim he commissioned, disprove virtually everything you say he enacted. Looks like God was a little smarter than him and is a lot smarter than you. (And again, I think the BMT is better, but nobody is using it right now so put your strawman away.) Come on, loser. Keep up. (Are you tired of getting your ass kicked yet?)

More posturing? You should realize by now it has no effect on me. :lol tired of getting my ass kicked

You just everything from Constantine is flawed. Now you are saying the Byzantine works are better. You seem incapable of drawing the obvious conclusion. You can lead a horse to water I guess.

[Skull-1]

Ihave searched the scriptures and didn't find them. You are unable to show them so yeah. Remember how I keep pointing out how you do is make claims and never back them up? More of the same it seems.

You are the one that brought up those things, doubled down on it with the Saudi royal bullshit and it certainly speaks to your credibility. You have none because of it. Posture some more about how you don't care you cannot prove you are not a liar.I've made them throughout this thread and in the other about Duncan. It isn't my fault that you can't read. Maybe you should get a tutor to go back to page one of this thread and read every post I have made. At some point you might stumble across a thing or two I have posted that includes at least a brace or two of scripture passages. Another lie by you. Keep 'em coming.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They have existed since they were written. We have them now. You can say what you want. Calling a donkey a duck doesn't make it quack, bubba. You are just a pathetic little man with zero spiritual insight and minimal intellect. People would listen to you at great peril.

I say they don't exist.

You say they do.

When I ask for you to produce them, you cannot but instead insult my intelligence. Who the hell do you think buys that horseshit?

[Skull-1]

More posturing? You should realize by now it has no effect on me. :lol tired of getting my ass kicked

You just everything from Constantine is flawed. Now you are saying the Byzantine works are better. You seem incapable of drawing the obvious conclusion. You can lead a horse to water I guess. The Byzantine texts are more faithful to the original in my opinion. I am saying everything in Christianity is flawed because they cannot even follow the scriptures as they are at present. I don't get why this is so hard to get through your thick skull. And the notion that Constantine is the one who copied the texts and then changed them to suit his needs is laughable. Where's the proof of that? You like to posture yourself quite a lot, but you don't know a f***ing thing about any of this except what you got spoonfed by some lowly graduate assistant.

[Skull-1]

I say they don't exist.

You say they do.

When I ask for you to produce them, you cannot but instead insult my intelligence. Who the hell do you think buys that horseshit? They don't exist yet we have them published all over the place. Non-existent. Uh....huh.... Stupid idiot. Prove they're illegit. Go ahead and try.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've made them throughout this thread and in the other about Duncan. It isn't my fault that you can't read. Maybe you should get a tutor to go back to page one of this thread and read every post I have made. At some point you might stumble across a thing or two I have posted that includes at least a brace or two of scripture passages. Another lie by you. Keep 'em coming.

It should be an easy thing to demonstratively show me that I am wrong and put it to bed yet you don't do it. It's no wonder why that is.

[Skull-1]

It should be an easy thing to demonstratively show me that I am wrong and put it to bed yet you don't do it. It's no wonder why that is.
I'm not typing the same things over and over again. You have been told where to find it. Anyone else who cares to know truth can look as well. I am not doing your homework for you any longer.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Byzantine texts are more faithful to the original in my opinion.


5) Anything and everything put out by Constantine or any church since, has ZERO credibility or alignment with Christ's Church.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol and you keep calling stupid. do you know what cognitive dissonance is? you really are a piece of work.

I can no longer try and have a serious conversation with you and can now only mock you. There would be nothing good in that. I have tried to talk about the early early church and surrounding history. I have tried to talk about the differences between Paul, Peter and Jesus. All you do is call me stupid and claim to have kicked my ass. This is a colossal waste of time.

[Skull-1]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol and you keep calling stupid. do you know what cognitive dissonance is? you really are a piece of work.

I can no longer try and have a serious conversation with you and can now only mock you. There would be nothing good in that. I have tried to talk about the early early church and surrounding history. I have tried to talk about the differences between Paul, Peter and Jesus. All you do is call me stupid and claim to have kicked my ass. This is a colossal waste of time.You call what you have been doing "serious conversation"??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's all you have been doing is mocking, you fool!

It was foretold.

You like to talk about KNOWING THIS FIRST (which you still got wrong but I digress)...

Funny how you missed this when it was about you:

3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3

_________

There is Christ's Church and there is everything else (Constantine, Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, ad nauseum. Try and figure out how this fits in with the parable about the Tower of Babel and you might buy a clue.) The Heavenly church and the earthly church. Children of God and children of the devil. Good trees and bad trees. New wine and old wine. Spiritual and carnal. It is pretty basic.

The Catholic Church can't be truthful because they think Mary is a deity, are not few, do not allow priests to marry, and threw people out of the faith for believing in things so stupid as the Earth orbiting the sun.

All the other denominations have their own flaws. Belief in the trinity or tithing alone is enough to discredit those faiths.

Yet through it all, God's word somehow made it through all of that, and the liars of the NIV, the KJV, the NLT, you name it.........and a blessed few of us can find the truth. "FEW THERE BE THAT *FIND* IT." It sure doesn't come from your pastor because he doesn't know. Doesn't come from seminary because they can't even get marriage straight. And it sure doesn't come from that liar making merchandise of you on TV.

_________


But Peter and the apostles replied, "We must obey God rather than any human authority." - Acts 5:29

“Tell us by what authority you do these things, or who it is that gave you this authority.” 3He answered them, “I also will ask you a question. Now tell me, 4was the baptism of John from heaven or from man?” 5And they discussed it with one another, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say, ‘Why did you not believe him?’ 6But if we say, ‘From man,’ all the people will stone us to death, for they are convinced that John was a prophet.” 7So they answered that they did not know where it came from. 8And Jesus said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.” - Luke 20

Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you. - Titus 2:15


One day some teachers of religious law and Pharisees came to Jesus and said, “Teacher, we want you to show us a miraculous sign to prove your authority.”

39But Jesus replied, “Only an evil, adulterous generation would demand a miraculous sign; but the only sign I will give them is the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. - Matthew 12

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." - Matthew 28


Testing him, they demanded that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority. - Mark 8

Sounds awful familiar....

[DMC]

I will bite. Why am I liar because I believe in God?

Hall of Fame Arguments so amusing or erroneous they are fast becoming apocryphal.


Banana: The Atheist's Nightmare (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Banana:_The_Atheist%27s_Nightmare)
Religious misconceptions (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Religious_misconceptions) - Common misconceptions about religion and scripture
Peanut Butter: Disproves Evolution? (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Peanut_Butter:_Disproves_Evolution%3F)
Crocoduck (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Crocoduck) - Kirk Cameron's transitional fossil that should prove evolution
Funny theist quotes (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Funny_theist_quotes) - A huge collection of the amazing claims religious people make, mostly taken from online forums.

General Arguments

Top ten arguments for the existence of God (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Top_ten_arguments_for_the_existence_of_God) - A summary of the most common arguments to prove god exists, along with explanations.
Argument From Design (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Argument_From_Design) - This is by far the most common and most prevalent argument theists present to "prove god exists". Every design needs a designer, and they use a wide variety of props from clocks to cola cans.
Argument from improbability (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Argument_from_improbability) - The second most common argument used to prove the existence of God. Look at the world; look at the human body, etc. The likelihood of something so perfectly tuned being arbitrarily created surely indicates the presence of a supernatural creator.
Argument from irreducible complexity (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Argument_from_irreducible_complexity) - A variation of the argument from improbability, the irreducible complexity argument says that there are structures of life that defy the laws of evolution and natural selection and must have been intelligently designed.
Atheism is a belief (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Atheism_is_a_belief) - It takes just as much faith to be an atheist as it does a theist. Oh really?
Atheists "hate" God (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Is_atheism_hate_speech%3F) - If you don't believe, it's because you hate Jesus or God.
Pascal's Wager (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager) - What is there to lose by believing in god?
Morality (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Morality) - What's the source of morality? Is it divine?
What Is The Soul? (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/What_Is_The_Soul%3F) - Discussions on consciousness
Creation of the Universe (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Creation_of_the_Universe) - What do theists and science say about creation in general?





Origins of Life (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Origins_of_Life) - What do theists and scientists say about creation of humans and other life?
Atheists convert to theism (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Atheists_convert_to_theism) - Many religious people claim they used to be "atheist" and then they found God.
If you don't respect peoples' faith you're worse than those you criticize (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Why_does_faith_deserve_respect%3F) - Theists say, at the least, all atheists should respect their personal faith. Oh really? Let's examine this.
America is a Christian nation (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/America_is_a_Christian_nation) - Theists put a different spin on the Establishment clause.
In God We Trust (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/In_God_We_Trust) - What's the truth behind religious slogans on U.S. currency?

[Blake]

Hall of Fame Arguments so amusing or erroneous they are fast becoming apocryphal.

[LIST]
Banana: The Atheist's Nightmare (http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Banana:_The_Atheist%27s_Nightmare)

the clip with that banana dude and Kirk Cameron is absolutely HOF worthy.

[Blake]

Blake what's your beef with God? It's not his fault your wife was porking the milk man.

No beef with a fairy tale.

Beef is with Christian nuts pushing public policy....keeping society from moving forward.

[Skull-1]

Hall of Fame

Arguments so amusing or erroneous they are fast becoming apocryphal.
T L : D N R. I am sure it is safe to say I don't believe in any of that stuff without going through it. Too much to do today. (I like Lewis Black's take on the Bible.) Fossil! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g

[Blake]

Really, now? Well teach us, Rabbi.



Well, IDIOT, if I am aligned with scripture and you are a master at it, then you should be able to tell me what I believe--or should believe. Let's go bitch.

That makes no sense. You've contradicted yourself from post #1 in this thread with "the scripture is unbroken unless I say I can break it".

I gave you my opinion after you asked for it. Stop dancing around and give your opinion on the afterlife.

[Blake]

Too much to do today. (I like Lewis Black's take on the Bible.) Fossil! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g

Yes, like post on Spurstalk and look up YouTubes.

Why are you so scared about sharing your after life opinion?

[Skull-1]

That makes no sense. You've contradicted yourself from post #1 in this thread with "the scripture is unbroken unless I say I can break it".

Just because you repeat a lie doesn't make it true, numbnuts. The scriptures interpret themselves. They give all the rules for doing so. It isn't my fault you are completely unaware of these or reject them no matter how many times they have been shown to you. You don't have to believe in God or any of that, but if you are going to interpret scriptures objectively then you have to use the rules they lay out for themselves. To do anything else is disingenuous at best. Also, your original question has been answered resoundingly and with clarity. It is also irrelevant to the truth of the Gospel. I told you, we're done. Still can't read I see. Nothing new there.

[Blake]

Just because you repeat a lie doesn't make it true, numbnuts. The scriptures interpret themselves. They give all the rules for doing so.

Except when the scripture's rules and laws aren't really rules and laws.

Just because you repeat yourself doesn't make it any less contradictory.

Still waiting on your opinion of the after life.

[RD2191]

Except when the scripture's rules and laws aren't really rules and laws.

Just because you repeat yourself doesn't make it any less contradictory.

Still waiting on your opinion of the after life.
What do you want to know about the after life?

[Blake]

What do you want to know about the after life?

Whatever you want to share.

[DMC]

T L : D N R. I am sure it is safe to say I don't believe in any of that stuff without going through it. Too much to do today. (I like Lewis Black's take on the Bible.) Fossil! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g

I can imagine you'd be attracted to a simplistic view of logic, even if it's wrong. Some people want things neatly packaged, and they don't read the contents.

[Skull-1]

I can imagine you'd be attracted to a simplistic view of logic, even if it's wrong. Some people want things neatly packaged, and they don't read the contents.
Just didn't have time. I see nothing in logic or science that disproves the gospel. Will check it out though.

[mouse]

This is a colossal waste of time.


Isn't that really up to the readers to decide?

just saying.

[Blake]

Just didn't have time. I see nothing in logic or science that disproves the gospel. Will check it out though.

I see nothing that disproves zeus either.

[DMC]

Just didn't have time. I see nothing in logic or science that disproves the gospel. Will check it out though.

Assertions don't need to be disproven. If you've ever used scientific method, you know that assertions require proof. The "gospel" is a book of assertions, and there's no compelling evidence to suggest it's true. Sure there's some stories that make moral points, but then many religions have the same types of stories. That's not what the main assertion is though. The main assertion of the Bible is as follows:

An omniscient God exists who wants and deserves our praise and worship. The methods and stories for getting from the creation to the apocalypse could be any story from any religious text, however the premise is the same.

There's absolutely zero compelling evidence for the existence of the god, and man has had thousands of years to find it, create it, rationalize it into existence, build an impenetrable wall around it and govern based on it. All this yet here we are, arguing over this god's existence thousands of years after the biblical god Yaweh was said to have created man.

When something is discovered, it doesn't exist less and less over time, even if it becomes extinct. The Dodo bird doesn't exist now, but we know it did. Planets we once didn't know existed we now know exist. There are viruses, microscopic organisms, the Higgs boson, quarks, hundreds and hundreds of things we discover to exist we were once unaware of. Not once has something gone from existence to non existence over the span of time, except fairy tales and gods. God is fading into non existence, and once that occurs, god will have never existed. The gaps will close and people who need emotional crutches in the shape of the supernatural sky daddy will be a thing of the past.

But we will never say they never existed.

[Skull-1]

I see nothing that disproves zeus either.You don't see very much of anything so that's no surprise.

[Skull-1]

Assertions don't need to be disproven. If you've ever used scientific method, you know that assertions require proof. The "gospel" is a book of assertions, and there's no compelling evidence to suggest it's true. Sure there's some stories that make moral points, but then many religions have the same types of stories. That's not what the main assertion is though. The main assertion of the Bible is as follows:

An omniscient God exists who wants and deserves our praise and worship. The methods and stories for getting from the creation to the apocalypse could be any story from any religious text, however the premise is the same.

There's absolutely zero compelling evidence for the existence of the god, and man has had thousands of years to find it, create it, rationalize it into existence, build an impenetrable wall around it and govern based on it. All this yet here we are, arguing over this god's existence thousands of years after the biblical god Yaweh was said to have created man.

When something is discovered, it doesn't exist less and less over time, even if it becomes extinct. The Dodo bird doesn't exist now, but we know it did. Planets we once didn't know existed we now know do exist. There are viruses, microscopic organisms, the Higgs boson, quarks, hundreds and hundreds of things we discover to exist we were once unaware of. Not once as something simply gone from existence to non existence, except this god. God is fading into non existence, and once that occurs, god will have never existed. The gaps will close and people who need emotional crutches in the shape of the supernatural sky daddy will be a thing of the past.

But we will never say they never existed. Well, the way I look at it is that we are just as stupid to believe we know everything through science now as people were when they believed (fill in the blank with your favorite disproved theory here). The spiritual aspects of the scriptures and their prophecies that have come true--and keep coming true over and over and over--are just a little too coincidental to be an accident. You are confident in your assertion that we will never discover God, but what a shock it would be if we did. As for me, it isn't a crutch. I don't give it much thought until I am dragged into some theological debate. I just try to enjoy my life without screwing anyone over and hope others will return the favor.

[mouse]

There's absolutely zero compelling evidence for the existence of the god,

says who?

[Skull-1]

says who?Exactly. There was zero compelling evidence men could fly yet here we are, Mach Six in the X-15, or Tokyo to Dallas non-stop at Mach .85 all day long. It just took someone to find it.

[mouse]

Rule #1 do the research


VMOREi7FK4c

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Isn't that really up to the readers to decide?

just saying.

Hey if you enjoyed it then I am glad that someone did. It was just going to this round and round where his retorts were all claims of kicking my ass and that I am stupid.

I find the history of western civilization to be interesting. The first the centuries of the church and the time period between atilla and charlemagne are very interesting to me. They also pertain to this discussion. The philisophical differences of the apostles and jesus himself is interesting. While this discussion has potential it was obvious that it ws never going to get there so I stopped bothering.

Hope you are doing well mang and at some gtg we need to spark a bowl or something. Keep taking care of yourself.

[mouse]

Hey if you enjoyed it then I am glad that someone did. It was just going to this round and round where his retorts were all claims of kicking my ass and that I am stupid.


Once again it's the Readers opinion.




I find the history of western civilization to be interesting. The first the centuries of the church and the time period between atilla and charlemagne are very interesting to me. They also pertain to this discussion. The philisophical differences of the apostles and jesus himself is interesting. While this discussion has potential it was obvious that it ws never going to get there so I stopped bothering.

Hope you are doing well mang and at some gtg we need to spark a bowl or something. Keep taking care of yourself.


Alternative Design.

[mouse]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/AD-Alternative-Design/121129644726154

https://www.google.com/search?q=AD+alternative+design+facebook&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=dBRWUvLPE5SA8gT66YHICw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=767&dpr=1#q=rackthemouse+AD+alternative+design+&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgrc=SBxc9oFD29VPfM%3A%3BiX1XMWt7qwkfPM%3Bhttp%25 3A%252F%252Fi125.photobucket.com%252Falbums%252Fp5 5%252FRackTheMouse%252FMIT-on-Evolution%252Fth_Proof-of-Alternative-design.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.spurstalk.com% 252Fforums%252Farchive%252Findex.php%252Ft-206902-p-2.html%3B528%3B432

[Skull-1]

Once again it's the Readers opinion.





Alternative Design.If the guy wants to debate western civ then he can take it to a different thread and we'll discuss it. This is about the scriptures, not his bullsh*t conspiracy theory regarding Paul and Constantine manipulating all of us from the grave. Oh, and it is the "Byzantine" Majority Text *NOT* the "Constantine" Majority Text. Just saying.

[DMC]

Well, the way I look at it is that we are just as stupid to believe we know everything through science now as people were when they believed (fill in the blank with your favorite disproved theory here). The spiritual aspects of the scriptures and their prophecies that have come true--and keep coming true over and over and over--are just a little too coincidental to be an accident. You are confident in your assertion that we will never discover God, but what a shock it would be if we did. As for me, it isn't a crutch. I don't give it much thought until I am dragged into some theological debate. I just try to enjoy my life without screwing anyone over and hope others will return the favor.

Your opening line is a false dichotomy. I don't know any scientists who think they know everything. Image if we used the Bible for all of our answers. You get sick, open the Bible and pray like it says. If that doesn't work, then God must be calling you home. Bet you don't go that route.

The Bible didn't invent the computer.

Science is the study of things, not the knowledge of things. It's a method. Religion is the ability and desire to make believe you already know the answers, and to be able to deny that nagging voice in your skull that says "this is bullshit" for the sake of your social group comfort and to help you sleep better.

Some feel better about knowing than about learning. For them, pretending to know is the placebo they need to cope with a world where science and technology has rendered all the miracles of the Bible void of reason, and explained away the gods of the past.

[Skull-1]

Your opening line is a false dichotomy. I don't know any scientists who think they know everything. Image if we used the Bible for all of our answers. You get sick, open the Bible and pray like it says. If that doesn't work, then God must be calling you home. Bet you don't go that route.

The Bible didn't invent the computer.

Science is the study of things, not the knowledge of things. It's a method. Religion is the ability and desire to make believe you already know the answers, and to be able to deny that nagging voice in your skull that says "this is bullshit" for the sake of your social group comfort and to help you sleep better.

Some feel better about knowing than about learning. For them, pretending to know is the placebo they need to cope with a world where science and technology has rendered all the miracles of the Bible void of reason, and explained away the gods of the past.False dichotomy, yet claiming there is no evidence of a god is a far cry from saying we know for certain that there isn't one. Yet, so many make a confident assertion there is NOT one and deride those who say there is, when both are operating on faith. The bible didn't invent the computer, but the one who invented both was invented by a god. I get no social comfort in what I say: I catch hell from both the Christians and the scientists, so there goes that theory. I don't worry about it. If I am wrong I won't be sentient to know it when it happens. I spent a lifetime learning. I have simply shifted the avenue of/on my knowledge quest from the scientific and physical to the spiritual. (Frankly I am into airplanes, firearms, and growing my trees. Sunsets and stars. A smart dog. That's enough.) Works for me but your mileage may vary.

[DMC]

False dichotomy, yet claiming there is no evidence of a god is a far cry from saying we know for certain that there isn't one. Yet, so many make a confident assertion there is one and deride those who say there is, when both are operating on faith. The bible didn't invent the computer, but the one who invented both was invented by a god. I get no social comfort in what I say: I catch hell from both the Christians and the scientists, so there goes that theory. I don't worry about it. If I am wrong I won't be sentient to know it when it happens. I spent a lifetime learning. I have simply shifted the avenue where I concentrate on my learning from the scientific and physical to the spiritual. Works for me but your mileage may vary.

As I explained, the god claim is the assertion that requires proof. Neither science nor my mind require disproof of an assertion to not consider it to be true. Otherwise I could consider all god claims to be true unless proven otherwise. Surely you see that.

I feel confident in stating there is no god, at least not one as depicted in the Bible. That god is a logical contradiction, so it cannot exist just as a square circle cannot exist. I don't need to prove a square circle cannot exist anywhere in the universe in order to dismiss it's existence, because it's a contradiction and those are false claims by nature. I don't need proof of the non-existence of whatever god someone claims to exist.

[Blake]

The spiritual aspects of the scriptures and their prophecies that have come true--and keep coming true over and over and over--are just a little too coincidental to be an accident.

Wut prophecies came true?

[Skull-1]

As I explained, the god claim is the assertion that requires proof. Neither science nor my mind require disproof of an assertion to not consider it to be true. Otherwise I could consider all god claims to be true unless proven otherwise. Surely you see that.

I feel confident in stating there is no god, at least not one as depicted in the Bible. That god is a logical contradiction, so it cannot exist just as a square circle cannot exist. I don't need to prove a square circle cannot exist anywhere in the universe in order to dismiss it's existence, because it's a contradiction and those are false claims by nature. I don't need proof of the non-existence of whatever god someone claims to exist. I see that. However, neither God nor my mind require science to prove He is real (that the scripture is true). I have enough evidence in the spiritual truths that I have been shown and that's enough for me. I will agree with you that there is not god as depicted in the Bible. But the God of the scriptures is a different being than the one of the superstitious, man-made, traditional, pagan-themed church. That being said, there are many things that exist that nobody has proof of--as yet. They are still there. I simply consider God to be one of them (and again, my proof doesn't rely on man).

[Skull-1]

Wut prophecies came true?The lamp in the darkness... That's one. You being an ignorant, mocking, carnal, beastly douchebag is another.

[DMC]

I see that. However, neither God nor my mind require science to prove it is true. I have enough evidence in the spiritual truths that I have been shown and that's enough for me. I will agree with you that there is not god as depicted in the Bible. But the God of the scriptures is a different being than the one of the superstitious, man-made, traditional, pagan-themed church. That being said, there are many things that exist that nobody has proof of--as yet. They are still there. I simply consider God to be one of them (and again, my proof doesn't rely on man).

I see no reason then to give consideration as existing for things that have no compelling evidence for existence. You assign truth value to emotional movements and anecdotal evidences however none of that compels me to believe in anything other than emotional movement and anecdotal evidences. I refuse to grant a pass to a suggested supernatural deity who cannot make itself apparent to the world it claims to have created and ruled.

[Skull-1]

I see no reason then to give consideration as existing for things that have no compelling evidence for existence. You assign truth value to emotional movements and anecdotal evidences however none of that compels me to believe in anything other than emotional movement and anecdotal evidences. I refuse to grant a pass to a suggested supernatural deity who cannot make itself apparent to the world it claims to have created and ruled.And you are free to believe that. I lose nothing by believing in Him other than being unable to rape and pillage as I see fit. But oh well. ;)

[Blake]

The lamp in the darkness... That's one. You being an ignorant, mocking, carnal, beastly douchebag is another.

Yeah, I didn't really think any prophecies came true.

[Blake]

And you are free to believe that. I lose nothing by believing in Him other than being unable to rape and pillage as I see fit. But oh well. ;)

that and you're stuck with your wife forever.

Unless that whole rant about Timmy sinning by getting a divorce was more contradictory bullshit from you.

[Skull-1]

Yeah, I didn't really think any prophecies came true.You are living proof of one. "Constantine's Bible" (LMFAO) is the other.

[Skull-1]

that and you're stuck with your wife forever.

Unless that whole rant about Timmy sinning by getting a divorce was more contradictory bullshit from you.That's right. But I am not stuck forever. Only until one of us dies, and I have some badass Meskins that can make sure it isn't me that dies first. LOL ;)

[Blake]

I see that. However, neither God nor my mind require science to prove He is real (that the scripture is true). I have enough evidence in the spiritual truths that I have been shown and that's enough for me. I will agree with you that there is not god as depicted in the Bible. But the God of the scriptures is a different being than the one of the superstitious, man-made, traditional, pagan-themed church. That being said, there are many things that exist that nobody has proof of--as yet. They are still there. I simply consider God to be one of them (and again, my proof doesn't rely on man).

Still waiting for you to answer what your eternal reward will be. In your opinion.

[DMC]

And you are free to believe that. I lose nothing by believing in Him other than being unable to rape and pillage as I see fit. But oh well. ;)
Your takes are explained away in the link I posted.

Morality isn't God or bust. We can have social morals without needing to attribute them to a god. In fact, the OT gives you the right to rape and pillage as God commands.

The rest of your post is called Pascal's Wager (nothing to lose). It's easily defeated by showing that living a lie is losing your entire life.

[Skull-1]

Still waiting for you to answer what your eternal reward will be. In your opinion.Still waiting for you to acknowledge you got your ass kicked on the colors of the robe.

[Skull-1]

Your takes are explained away in the link I posted.

Morality isn't God or bust. We can have social morals without needing to attribute them to a god. In fact, the OT gives you the right to rape and pillage as God commands.

The rest of your post is called Pascal's Wager (nothing to lose). It's easily defeated by showing that living a lie is losing your entire life.
I was obviously joking, brah. Sheesh. (And the OT is a parable, so it gives no such right.) My life is unaffected. Perhaps belief restrains me from doing things that would be to my detriment, thereby saving my life.

[DMC]

I was obviously joking, brah. Sheesh. (And the OT is a parable, so it gives no such right.) My life is unaffected. Perhaps belief restrains me from doing things that would be to my detriment, thereby saving my life.

If you need to believe in an untruth to protect yourself, it's just the placebo I mentioned.

[Skull-1]

If you need to believe in an untruth to protect yourself, it's just the placebo I mentioned.So, for example, cheating on your wife being a bad thing is an untruth just because one uses religious faith to reinforce it? Or remaining loyal to someone who betrays you even when it hurts because you gave your word--that's an untruth just because it comes from a religious faith? *whistles* :rolleyes

[Blake]

That's right. But I am not stuck forever. Only until one of us dies, and I have some badass Meskins that can make sure it isn't me that dies first. LOL ;)

lol murder is funny

[Blake]

Still waiting for you to acknowledge you got your ass kicked on the colors of the robe.

Why would I do that when nothing has changed. It's either a contradiction or an error.

Either way, just that one flub nullifies the entire Bible as being the divinely inspired word of God.

[Blake]

And why do you shit your pants when I ask what your opinion on the afterlife is?

[DMC]

So, for example, cheating on your wife being a bad thing is an untruth just because one uses religious faith to reinforce it? Or remaining loyal to someone who betrays you even when it hurts because you gave your word--that's an untruth just because it comes from a religious faith? *whistles* :rolleyes
You use the term "cheating", so you automatically make sex while married a bad thing. If you take a vow to another person to be faithful to them, breaking that vow says a lot about you. It's not punishable by death. Should it be? It's no bigger a sin than murder. There are marriages that are open, and they have sex with other people. Is that cheating if both people accepted that from the start? That's the problem with a binary system like yours, there's no genuine room for gradient.

You seem to believe that being a good person requires belief in a god, as if the belief in the god is the only thing keeping you from being an out of control psychopathic killer. I say that out of control people who rely on god belief to maintain some form of self control are not good examples of rational minds so having them tell me that a god exists, when they only believe it because it's a mental placebo for them, is fruitless. I am not out of control, so I don't require a mental placebo or imaginary watchdog.

Drug addict turned Jesus addict, alcoholic wife beater turned devout Christian zealot. Either way, on the fringe and either way several standard deviations from the target mentality of rationality.

[Skull-1]

Why would I do that when nothing has changed. It's either a contradiction or an error.

Either way, just that one flub nullifies the entire Bible as being the divinely inspired word of God.It is neither. As for the rest, that's your carnal opinion--which is nullified by the truth of the Scriptures.

[Skull-1]

You use the term "cheating", so you automatically make sex while married a bad thing. If you take a vow to another person to be faithful to them, breaking that vow says a lot about you. It's not punishable by death. Should it be? It's no bigger a sin than murder. There are marriages that are open, and they have sex with other people. Is that cheating if both people accepted that from the start? That's the problem with a binary system like yours, there's no genuine room for gradient.

You seem to believe that being a good person requires belief in a god, as if the belief in the god is the only thing keeping you from being an out of control psychopathic killer. I say that out of control people who rely on god belief to maintain some form of self control are not good examples of rational minds so having them tell me that a god exists, when they only believe it because it's a mental placebo for them, is fruitless. I am not out of control, so I don't require a mental placebo or imaginary watchdog.

Drug addict turned Jesus addict, alcoholic wife beater turned devout Christian zealot. Either way, on the fringe and either way several standard deviations from the target mentality of rationality.Never said that belief in God is all that keeps someone from being a nut. I simply countered your contention that an honorable belief is wrong or bad or untrue because of where it comes from. If one vows to be faithful to their partner then they should keep their word. How that word is kept (belief or just awareness of what one has promised) matters not, so long as it is. Then again, things like forgiveness and mercy are also tenants of the scriptures that are not bad just because they stem from, or are anchored by, a belief in Christ.

[Skull-1]

And why do you shit your pants when I ask what your opinion on the afterlife is?Flake, nothing you could ever do or say would cause that to happen. I simply do not feel you are worth the effort. Besides, you are a bible expert so you already know. I have beaten you to a pulp on the little things but like a punch clown you keep popping back up, repeating the same tired lies as before. Going onto another topic would be doubling down on futility and I have better things to do (like finishing my gorgeous P-40B in 1/48 scale that I have been away from for a few months).

[DMC]

Never said that belief in God is all that keeps someone from being a nut.

You insinuated it plenty of times already. Also, not only is criminal behavior not exclusive to atheists, it's not even choosy about god belief. God belief falls more along the lines of education levels, and criminality often does as well due to income levels being on par with education levels. Ergo, the more ignorant the mind, the more likely it is to accept irrational suggestions as true without question, and the more likely it is to commit a crime.


I simply countered your contention that an honorable belief is wrong or bad or untrue because of where it comes from.

It's not that the morality that's in question. Murder wasn't acceptable prior to Moses' epiphany. It's the claim that a god exists. All the flowers and frill and pomp and circumstance surrounding the deity isn't in question. What's in question is the existence of the deity. The morality exists, it's not a divine edict, it's a social development that's changed even in our lifetimes.


If one vows to be faithful to their partner then they should keep their word. How that word is kept (belief or just awareness of what one has promised) matters not, so long as it is. Then again, things like forgiveness and mercy are also tenants of the scriptures that are not bad just because they stem from, or are anchored by, a belief in Christ.
They weren't created by the scriptures nor by Jesus. Those tenets are paramount to the survival of a societal race of people. There doesn't need to be a divine edict for them to be beneficial. However, how beneficial is it to not work on Sunday? Do you abide by that commandment? If not, why? Is it also a metaphor?

[Blake]

It is neither. As for the rest, that's your carnal opinion--which is nullified by the truth of the Scriptures.

It's very very clearly one or the other. Either a clerical error or conflicting witness testimony. It immediately makes the Bible unreliable.

[DMC]

It's very very clearly one or the other. Either a clerical error or conflicting witness testimony. It immediately makes the Bible unreliable.

Only in the aspect that it's the infallible word of an infallible god, which many Christians present it as being.

[Blake]

Flake, nothing you could ever do or say would cause that to happen. I simply do not feel you are worth the effort. Besides, you are a bible expert so you already know. I have beaten you to a pulp on the little things but like a punch clown you keep popping back up, repeating the same tired lies as before. Going onto another topic would be doubling down on futility and I have better things to do (like finishing my gorgeous P-40B in 1/48 scale that I have been away from for a few months).

That was a lot of effort to tell me I'm not worth the effort.

[mouse]

554zSksLNEM

[Blake]

Only in the aspect that it's the infallible word of an infallible god, which many Christians present it as being.

II Timothy says all scripture is God breathed.

The only way out of that is to go full skull and make up your own definition of scripture.

[Skull-1]

It's very very clearly one or the other. Either a clerical error or conflicting witness testimony. It immediately makes the Bible unreliable.So you say. I have already explained a dozen ways that it would NOT be conflicting. However, that said, it wouldn't matter because the spiritual aspect is unchanged. Try to keep up, dummy. I know it is hard, but try. Also, clerical errors veil the truth of God. As prophesied.

[Skull-1]

You insinuated it plenty of times already. Also, not only is criminal behavior not exclusive to atheists, it's not even choosy about god belief. God belief falls more along the lines of education levels, and criminality often does as well due to income levels being on par with education levels. Ergo, the more ignorant the mind, the more likely it is to accept irrational suggestions as true without question, and the more likely it is to commit a crime.

It's not that the morality that's in question. Murder wasn't acceptable prior to Moses' epiphany. It's the claim that a god exists. All the flowers and frill and pomp and circumstance surrounding the deity isn't in question. What's in question is the existence of the deity. The morality exists, it's not a divine edict, it's a social development that's changed even in our lifetimes.

They weren't created by the scriptures nor by Jesus. Those tenets are paramount to the survival of a societal race of people. There doesn't need to be a divine edict for them to be beneficial. However, how beneficial is it to not work on Sunday? Do you abide by that commandment? If not, why? Is it also a metaphor?
I do not abide by that "commandment" because it was never a commandment (how better to HONOR the Sabbath than to help someone in need? INDEED!). Jesus most certainly nullified it if it were, in any event. It is a metaphor for the carnal person vs the spiritual. For the child of satan vs the child of God. For the bad tree vs the good tree. For living by the "letter of the law" vs doing what is right. I don't debate your other points really. Obviously education is everything. I don't do what is right other than I was taught. But what I was taught had limits and the rest I learned through the Scriptures (and a few things from Scouting and the Marines). My family would think I was nuts to stand by my spouse after adultery and divorce and running off with someone else, but I gave my word so that is what I would/will do. That's not going to be found in humanism anywhere. That is only found in the Gospel. (If I didn't address other points forgive me. Win7 won't recognize ENTER in this forum, so everything is one paragraph which is impossible for you to read without bashing your head on the monitor screen, sorry sorry sorry..)

[Skull-1]

II Timothy says all scripture is God breathed.

The only way out of that is to go full skull and make up your own definition of scripture.God breathed, yet it was hidden by the Catholic Church for centuries.....and is veiled constantly by bad translations.... OBVIOUSLY God is going to get His way, be it through tripping up small-minded men like flake and lumpyjizzface over a color or some "Constantinian Conspiracy" to screw everyone up. I have posted the scriptures.... Go back and read idiot.

[Skull-1]

Jer 8 - “Even the stork in the sky
Knows her seasons;
And the turtledove and the swift and the thrush
Observe the time of their migration;
But My people do not know
The ordinance of the LORD. 8 (http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/8-8.htm)“How can you say, ‘We are wise,
And the law of the LORD is with us’?
But behold, the lying pen of the scribes
Has made it into a lie.

[Blake]

So you say. I have already explained a dozen ways that it would NOT be conflicting. However, that said, it wouldn't matter because the spiritual aspect is unchanged. Try to keep up, dummy. I know it is hard, but try. Also, clerical errors veil the truth of God. As prophesied.

you have the veil thing all wrong, fwiw.

[Blake]

Jer 8 - “Even the stork in the sky
Knows her seasons;
And the turtledove and the swift and the thrush
Observe the time of their migration;
But My people do not know
The ordinance of the LORD. 8 (http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/8-8.htm)“How can you say, ‘We are wise,
And the law of the LORD is with us’?
But behold, the lying pen of the scribes
Has made it into a lie.

Yeah, you are horrible at comprehension, logic and cherry picking.

[Skull-1]

you have the veil thing all wrong, fwiw.Uh, no, I do not. We have already gone around on that. How God veils the scripture is not important, because He uses many methods. If you are carnal then they are veiled to you because you cannot see them. If you are carnal they are veiled to you because they are in parables that you cannot understand. They are veiled coming and going. You, sir, are overmatched. Retire from the field lest you lose your head.

[Skull-1]

Yeah, you are horrible at comprehension, logic and cherry picking.Oh I have a lot more. God veils the truth and you don't think He will allow the scribes to pollute His word to maintain the mystery for all but the few? You are a foolish, petulant, pathetic little worm, indeed. To correct your boyfriend, "NO SCRIPTURE IS OF ITS *OWN* INTERPRETATION." MYSTERY MYSTERY, VEILED VEILED, PARABLE PARABLE. Come on, now, sissy boy, we have been over this before and you have already been marinated. You should make a fine fajita by now.

[mouse]

XeGiRvQ-8wk

[Skull-1]

Ud6sU3AclT4 Oh, my......GOD. One of my favorite songs. :) I love that woman's voice. So amazing. Any way.... Patton Oswalt on Religion (HILARIOUS) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w

[Skull-1]

Mouse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UIojGDIBvI In the same vein as Taylor. (Not your point, but I am going with the theme here.)

[Blake]

Uh, no, I do not. We have already gone around on that. How God veils the scripture is not important, because He uses many methods. If you are carnal then they are veiled to you because you cannot see them. If you are carnal they are veiled to you because they are in parables that you cannot understand. They are veiled coming and going. You, sir, are overmatched. Retire from the field lest you lose your head.

Neh. You're simply talking out of your ass.

You're also a pussy that runs from a simple question about the after life.

[Skull-1]

Neh. You're simply talking out of your ass.

You're also a pussy that runs from a simple question about the after life. I have provided you the scriptures. If I am talking out my ass then my ass must be pretty f'ing smart... If the question is so simple that you pose, then I don't need to answer. Let it go, sh*thead. Focus on the topic. (As for pussy: I am what I eat, you d*ckhead.)

[mouse]

w5bPbwkjKMM

[Skull-1]

BIORiY9JC6k
Mother f***er.... It's on now! LOL :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gabnyF1Bczk

[Skull-1]

No, you ran from the discussion after fuzzy dismantled you.

You are just not aware of how badly he did it to you.
LOL. I go to bed and it is called running. I am still here today, NOW....... Where are you and lumpyjizzcunt after I dismantled BOTH of you? Nowhere. LMFAO.

[Blake]

LOL. I go to bed and it is called running. I am still here today, NOW....... Where are you and lumpyjizzcunt after I dismantled BOTH of you? Nowhere. LMFAO.

why do you run when I ask you your opinion on the after life?

[xmas1997]

You guys sure do like your pissing contest. You seem to get lots of pleasure from ridiculing each other.
That is pretty odd, don't you think?
You each blame it on the other.
Is that how you conduct a civil discussion?
Just asking.

[DMC]

1. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me. This commandment is completely worthless. It provides no moral or legal guidance whatsoever - akin to a Commandment that Thou shalt not recognize Unicorns or Pixies or Faeries. Commandments that do nothing more than stroke Yahweh's massive and completely unwarranted ego are completely useless.

2. Thou shalt not make or worship graven images. Yet another worthless commandment. Honestly, the Creator of the entire Universe comes down to our planet, takes the time to actually give us specific commands and THIS is what he gives us? Don't make statues? Really? Another useless commandment that does nothing more than stroke Yahweh's massive ego.

3. Thou shalt not take the lord's name in vain. Really? No swearing? God dammit! Another meaningless Yahweh ego stroking commandment. Don't make fun of Leprechauns! Don't insult Cthulu.

4. Honor the Sabbath by keeping it holy. Honestly, we're nearly half way through the entire list of THE MOST IMPORTANT MORAL AND LEGAL DOCUMENT EVER and the ONLY thing the document has done is stroke Yahweh's massive ego. Honoring the sabbath does not make one moral. It does not lead to a better life. It does not advance human kindness or fairness or equality. Four out of ten and not one sound legal or moral principle. No wonder Representative Westmoreland can't remember them.

5. Honor thy Father and Mother. Finally. This is the first Commandment that actually posits an actual moral position and is actually somewhat useful. To be sure, this is not a legal commandment. And to be sure, many fathers and mothers are not actually worthy of honor, so the commandment is not universally applicable, but as a general proposition, this is actually somewhat worthwhile. Congratulations Yahweh, you finally got one.

6. Thou shalt not murder. And so we come to one of the Commandments that people actually remember. This is the first actual legal principle articulated in the Ten Commandments and it is actually an indispensable legal principle that, unsurprisingly, exists in every single culture.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Another fine moral principle. Not one that is or ever has been particularly well followed, or one that is a recognized legal principle in any Christian or Jewish state, but nevertheless it is a sound moral principle that people should try to follow. Ironically, the only states where this commandment actually carries legal weight are in Islamic countries.

8. Thou shalt not steal. This is one of the other Commandments that people actually remember - mostly because it is an indispensable legal principle in every single culture in human history.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness. This is the final Commandment that people usually remember - mostly because generally speaking, people know that it is bad to lie, cheat, steal and kill.

10. Thou shalt not covet. Really? Why not? Even if we don't act on it? We shouldn't think about and dream about bettering ourselves? We shouldn't look at what other people have and desire that for ourselves? To be sure, it is wrong to TAKE what other people have, but that is already covered by the no stealing, no adultery, no killing Commandments. Coveting is merely a thought - a desire - to prohibit that merely constitutes a meaningless and completely useless thought crime.

So for those of you keeping score: Five are completely worthless. Two represent good moral aspirations. Three represent indispensable legal principles. In other words, SEVEN of the Ten Commandments are so disposable that they do not even make it into modern legal systems.

God could have done so much better. Instead of engaging in Yahweh's useless ego stroking and punishing thought crimes, God could have said:

Thou shalt not discriminate against one another on the basis of sex, nationality, religion.
Thou shalt not enslave one another.
Thou shalt not torture.
Thou shalt provide equal protection for all citizens under the law.
Thou shalt not arbitrarily deprive citizens of property.
Thou shalt not arbitrarily arrest, detain or exile.
Thou shalt presume the innocence of the accused until they are proven guilty.
Thou shalt not interfere with the privacy of others.
Thou shalt ensure the freedom of thought, freedom of conscience and freedom of speech.
Thou shalt provide for the safety, welfare and security of all your people.
Thou shalt educate your people.

Those are all actually provisions of the UN Declaration of Human Rights. All of which would be a dramatic improvement over Yahweh's ego stroking commands. They actually provide a basis for a more just, equitable honest, fair, egalitarian and peaceful society. Surely an omniscient being could have come up with such commands. Surely an omniscient being could have designed a society in such a way.

Instead Yahweh wastes the bulk of his divinely authored tablets stroking his own ego. Further, Yahweh wastes chapter after chapter after chapter of the Biblical legal code discussing how exactly all of his blood sacrifices must be prepared (http://meaningwithoutgodproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/yawehs-insatiable-bloodlust-nsfw.html#more) and then going on to describe in even greater detail the exact measurements and construction methods for the Ark (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+37&version=NIV), the exact style of dress for priests (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+39&version=NIV), the dimensions of the tabernacle (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://christthetruth.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/pillar-cloud-tabernacle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://christthetruth.wordpress.com/2010/04/03/exodus-40/&h=489&w=600&sz=65&tbnid=BCXIsNboOC8jUM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dexodus%2Btabernacle&zoom=1&q=exodus+tabernacle&hl=en&usg=__xKvFZYoVHBkTefJAPB9MYqBZ4UA=&sa=X&ei=XXb-TLfWFJT2tgOJsoWxCw&ved=0CB4Q9QEwAQ), the width of doors and windows, etc. In other words, VAST amounts of legal doctrine that could have been used as the foundation of a more just, more fair, more peaceful, more virtuous society are instead squandered on useless and pointless laws that do NOTHING but give Yahweh a chance to design buildings, braziers, arks, candles, tents and priestly vestments.

One has to wonder why the Creator of the Entire Universe would have the slightest inclination to waste his time on such pointless and trivial matters when he could have simply outlawed slavery or torture or warfare. The Ten Commandments are worse than mostly useless - They are a colossal waste of opportunity.


http://meaningwithoutgodproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/ten-commandments-mostly-useless.html

[xmas1997]

:lmao
You obviously did not see Mel Brooks film, "History of the World Part I" where Moses dropped and broke two or more of the tablets! :lol
But I like your vein of sarcastic humor and rationality!
Great post, even though I disagree with parts, the parts you left words out of, such as #10 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors .......... etc. It is a little more involved than that.
But all in all really great humorous post.

[Blake]

You guys sure do like your pissing contest. You seem to get lots of pleasure from ridiculing each other.
That is pretty odd, don't you think?
You each blame it on the other.
Is that how you conduct a civil discussion?
Just asking.

skull isn't discussing much with me.

Ask him in the most way civil possible about his opinion on the after life for me.

Thanks :tu

[Blake]

1. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me. This commandment is completely worthless. It provides no moral or legal guidance whatsoever - akin to a Commandment that Thou shalt not recognize Unicorns or Pixies or Faeries. Commandments that do nothing more than stroke Yahweh's massive and completely unwarranted ego are completely useless.

2. Thou shalt not make or worship graven images. Yet another worthless commandment. Honestly, the Creator of the entire Universe comes down to our planet, takes the time to actually give us specific commands and THIS is what he gives us? Don't make statues? Really? Another useless commandment that does nothing more than stroke Yahweh's massive ego.

3. Thou shalt not take the lord's name in vain. Really? No swearing? God dammit! Another meaningless Yahweh ego stroking commandment. Don't make fun of Leprechauns! Don't insult Cthulu.

4. Honor the Sabbath by keeping it holy. Honestly, we're nearly half way through the entire list of THE MOST IMPORTANT MORAL AND LEGAL DOCUMENT EVER and the ONLY thing the document has done is stroke Yahweh's massive ego. Honoring the sabbath does not make one moral. It does not lead to a better life. It does not advance human kindness or fairness or equality. Four out of ten and not one sound legal or moral principle. No wonder Representative Westmoreland can't remember them.

5. Honor thy Father and Mother. Finally. This is the first Commandment that actually posits an actual moral position and is actually somewhat useful. To be sure, this is not a legal commandment. And to be sure, many fathers and mothers are not actually worthy of honor, so the commandment is not universally applicable, but as a general proposition, this is actually somewhat worthwhile. Congratulations Yahweh, you finally got one.

6. Thou shalt not murder. And so we come to one of the Commandments that people actually remember. This is the first actual legal principle articulated in the Ten Commandments and it is actually an indispensable legal principle that, unsurprisingly, exists in every single culture.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Another fine moral principle. Not one that is or ever has been particularly well followed, or one that is a recognized legal principle in any Christian or Jewish state, but nevertheless it is a sound moral principle that people should try to follow. Ironically, the only states where this commandment actually carries legal weight are in Islamic countries.

8. Thou shalt not steal. This is one of the other Commandments that people actually remember - mostly because it is an indispensable legal principle in every single culture in human history.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness. This is the final Commandment that people usually remember - mostly because generally speaking, people know that it is bad to lie, cheat, steal and kill.

10. Thou shalt not covet. Really? Why not? Even if we don't act on it? We shouldn't think about and dream about bettering ourselves? We shouldn't look at what other people have and desire that for ourselves? To be sure, it is wrong to TAKE what other people have, but that is already covered by the no stealing, no adultery, no killing Commandments. Coveting is merely a thought - a desire - to prohibit that merely constitutes a meaningless and completely useless thought crime.

So for those of you keeping score: Five are completely worthless. Two represent good moral aspirations. Three represent indispensable legal principles. In other words, SEVEN of the Ten Commandments are so disposable that they do not even make it into modern legal systems.

God could have done so much better. Instead of engaging in Yahweh's useless ego stroking and punishing thought crimes, God could have said:

Thou shalt not discriminate against one another on the basis of sex, nationality, religion.
Thou shalt not enslave one another.
Thou shalt not torture.
Thou shalt provide equal protection for all citizens under the law.
Thou shalt not arbitrarily deprive citizens of property.
Thou shalt not arbitrarily arrest, detain or exile.
Thou shalt presume the innocence of the accused until they are proven guilty.
Thou shalt not interfere with the privacy of others.
Thou shalt ensure the freedom of thought, freedom of conscience and freedom of speech.
Thou shalt provide for the safety, welfare and security of all your people.
Thou shalt educate your people.

Those are all actually provisions of the UN Declaration of Human Rights. All of which would be a dramatic improvement over Yahweh's ego stroking commands. They actually provide a basis for a more just, equitable honest, fair, egalitarian and peaceful society. Surely an omniscient being could have come up with such commands. Surely an omniscient being could have designed a society in such a way.

Instead Yahweh wastes the bulk of his divinely authored tablets stroking his own ego. Further, Yahweh wastes chapter after chapter after chapter of the Biblical legal code discussing how exactly all of his blood sacrifices must be prepared (http://meaningwithoutgodproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/yawehs-insatiable-bloodlust-nsfw.html#more) and then going on to describe in even greater detail the exact measurements and construction methods for the Ark (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+37&version=NIV), the exact style of dress for priests (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+39&version=NIV), the dimensions of the tabernacle (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://christthetruth.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/pillar-cloud-tabernacle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://christthetruth.wordpress.com/2010/04/03/exodus-40/&h=489&w=600&sz=65&tbnid=BCXIsNboOC8jUM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dexodus%2Btabernacle&zoom=1&q=exodus+tabernacle&hl=en&usg=__xKvFZYoVHBkTefJAPB9MYqBZ4UA=&sa=X&ei=XXb-TLfWFJT2tgOJsoWxCw&ved=0CB4Q9QEwAQ), the width of doors and windows, etc. In other words, VAST amounts of legal doctrine that could have been used as the foundation of a more just, more fair, more peaceful, more virtuous society are instead squandered on useless and pointless laws that do NOTHING but give Yahweh a chance to design buildings, braziers, arks, candles, tents and priestly vestments.

One has to wonder why the Creator of the Entire Universe would have the slightest inclination to waste his time on such pointless and trivial matters when he could have simply outlawed slavery or torture or warfare. The Ten Commandments are worse than mostly useless - They are a colossal waste of opportunity.


http://meaningwithoutgodproject.blogspot.com/2010/12/ten-commandments-mostly-useless.html

Parables!

[mouse]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206902&page=2



http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/MIT-on-Evolution/th_Alternative-Design-MIT.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/MIT-on-Evolution/?action=view¤t=Alternative-Design-MIT.mp4)




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[ismael-robert]

Good God DMC is that article really what you use as research into the validity of the Bible...lol that was absolutely ridiculous opinions that show no depth in though whatsoever...truly shows someone who is just skimming over the surface not getting any meaning out of the commandments. Just to deal with the first one thou shalt have no other gods...First off this is because any other god would be a false god with false teachings...it would lead into pagan practices...it would lead away from the atonement of Christ which is necessary for salvation. Secondly to get deeper into it ANYTHING can be a false god...the worship of money, pride, cars, our home, women, tv...basically anything that gets in the way of developing our relationship with our creator and our brothers and sisters in the faith can become a god to us...anything that becomes more important than Him and takes our time away from Him. You can lump the creation of graven images into this commandment. This is called idolatry and again anything can become an idol...basically if there is only ONE God and it's YHWH (not Yahweh) then any worship of something false don't you think that would be sinful...to disrespect and dishonor your creator in such a way...the one who sent His son to die for you and loves you...if you were God and your child worshipped someone else that would hurt wouldn't it? Truly poor article with no substance at all.

[xmas1997]

Ismael, I think he meant it to be humorous.
Even God has a sense of humor. Don't forget Mel Brooks movie.
We can get too serious about these things for our own good and when that happens we next start taking ourselves too seriously, that leads to all sorts of mistakes and sins, like pride, greed, self righteousness, and personal ridicule.

[Blake]

Good God DMC is that article really what you use as research into the validity of the Bible...lol that was absolutely ridiculous opinions that show no depth in though whatsoever...truly shows someone who is just skimming over the surface not getting any meaning out of the commandments. Just to deal with the first one thou shalt have no other gods...First off this is because any other god would be a false god with false teachings...it would lead into pagan practices...it would lead away from the atonement of Christ which is necessary for salvation. Secondly to get deeper into it ANYTHING can be a false god...the worship of money, pride, cars, our home, women, tv...basically anything that gets in the way of developing our relationship with our creator and our brothers and sisters in the faith can become a god to us...anything that becomes more important than Him and takes our time away from Him. You can lump the creation of graven images into this commandment. This is called idolatry and again anything can become an idol...basically if there is only ONE God and it's YHWH (not Yahweh) then any worship of something false don't you think that would be sinful...to disrespect and dishonor your creator in such a way...the one who sent His son to die for you and loves you...if you were God and your child worshipped someone else that would hurt wouldn't it? Truly poor article with no substance at all.

What's your opinion on why God allowed slavery?

[Blake]

Ismael, I think he meant it to be humorous.
Even God has a sense of humor. Don't forget Mel Brooks movie.
We can get too serious about these things for our own good and when that happens we next start taking ourselves too seriously, that leads to all sorts of mistakes and sins, like pride, greed, self righteousness, and personal ridicule.

God is pretty serious about his laws. He is pro-capital punishment

[xmas1997]

God is pretty serious about his laws. He is pro-capital punishment

So says Judaism or the Old Testament.
What about the New Testament?