Random thoughts and stats after 10 games

[Bruno]

9-1 is great. While it's true Spurs have faced low level opponents, 9-1 with 6 games on the road and with these 10 games played in only 17 days, can only be seen as a very good start of the season. Some thoughts on some more specific aspects:

Duncan and Ginobili:
That's the true bad news of these first 10 games. With a respective PER of 15.4 and 14.9, both Tim and Manu have looked bad this year and given their ages that's worrisome.
For Tim, the drop off is made even more noticeable by how great he was last season. When you compare at last season, his points scored by minutes have dropped by 28.2% with a FG% going from .502 to .394. It's isn't only a shooting slump since his rebounding per minute has also dropped by 23.5%.
For Manu, the drop is smaller since he wasn't that good last season but it doesn't change that he is right now only an average player. The idea that this season could be some kind of rebound year for him is way off for the moment.
I have a hard time being optimistic for their future. Maybe, the best reason to be hopeful that they will get significantly better would surprisingly come from a De Colo interview. In that interview, Nando said Spurs have changed their physical training staff/method with the idea of being even more in shape for the playoffs. The hope would be that they get better physically for the playoffs which would have a big positive impact on their playing level.

Spurs overall defense:
While Spurs defense hasn't really faced a lot of offensive juggernauts, it has been great especially given that they usually start the season slow on that end of the court. Right now with only 91.6 points allowed by 100 possession, Spurs are the second best defensive team in the league behind Indiana. This good defense is done the typical Spurs way by focusing on the easy shots: Spurs are defending the rim well, are great at stopping fast breaks and are allowing very few free throws. The only area that Spurs should improve is defending corner 3's. Spurs are 21st in corner 3's allowed by game and 25th in FG% allowed for these shots with a ridiculous 47.3%.

Spurs overall offense:
Spurs are average offensively. They have the 11th offensive rating at 102.7. Identifying the key issue isn't that complicate: Spurs are bad offensively when Duncan is on the court. They have a 99.9 offensive rating when he is on the court and a 105.1 rating when he is on the bench. In 2012-2013, it was 107.6 with him and 104.2 without him.
To improve their offense, Duncan must improve or Spurs must use him less offensively. With his pedigree, it isn't debatable for the moment and Spurs must stick with Tim as a key part of their offense but if his struggles continue in a couple of months, it might become a legit option to feed him less.

Spurs defensive rebounding:
Spurs have been these past years an elite defensive rebounding team and they are having an even better start than usual this year.
The improvement doesn't really come from the PF/C rotation but from the SG/SF rotation. The 4 main wing (Leonard, Green, Ginobili and Belinelli) are averaging more than 5 defensive rebounds per 36 minutes.
Spurs compensate the lack of an elite defensive rebounder by a team effort.

The Duncan/Splitter pair:
One of the reason of Spurs surge last season was the Splitter/Duncan pairing. They even were the best defensive pair in the NBA. This year it isn't at all the case:
+/- stats for the main Spurs bigmen pair:
Duncan/Splitter: -13 in 98 minutes
Duncan/Diaw: +48 in 94 minutes
Splitter/Diaw: +35 in 70 minutes
Duncan getting better might put back the Duncan/Splitter back on track but if it doesn't happen, it should have consequences on what Spurs should do at the trade deadline. Without the ability to pair Tim and Tiago adding a quality PF becomes an even bigger priority.

Patty Ginobili:
Last season, there were a stat that was in favor of Mills getting the backup PG spot: his insanely good pairing with Ginobili. They were at +22.7 points per 100 possessions and by far Spurs better pair.
This season proves so far that it wasn't just a statistical fluke. They are right now at +27 points per 100 poss. .
Add to that, Mills great offensive input and some good defensive numbers and it looks like Spurs have found a high quality backup PG for this season.

Boris 2.0:
A lot has been said about Diaw increase aggressiveness. A little stat to back it up:
Field goals attempted by Boris per 36 minutes with Spurs:
2012: 6.0
2012-2013: 7.0
2013-2014: 12.7
Regarding the reason of that change, I don't buy the contract year effect even said by Pop. I believe Diaw when he said that it is because he thoughts he could have bring more to Spurs last season in the playoffs and that it is what he wants to do this year with them.

Belinelli versus Neal:
Neal (and Blair, but that's another subject), being an empty stats player that didn't make the team better was reflected in his on/off court stats. During his career with Spurs to offense wasn't really better while he was on the court while the defense was significantly worse.
Belinelli seems to be a way superior team player. That's what the naked eye said and stats confirmed it. His +/- is right now at +10.1 points per 100 possession while Neal was at +4.2 points with Spurs.

Aron Baynes:
It's a little anecdotal but while I was looking at Spurs stats to do that post, I was amazed by how horrible Baynes stats were. He has a -5.6 PER and a -38 +/-. It isn't a surprise why Ayres is above him in the rotation even if he has shown close to nothing on the court.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Thanks, Bruno. Great post.

I suspect that Duncan is coasting and priming for a later season run. Historically bad stats for him and such a drop-off suddenly (despite the age caveat) is more likely a function of a changed emphasis on physical regimen and coasting rather than anything else, I think.

Ginobili's 15 PER, I always expected. What worries me is his continued struggles on 3 point shooting. Thats where he really regressed last year (the TOs against Miami were all due to Miami's superior defense). And I think his history of being a reliable 3 point shooter is just that now, history.

The Spurs bench and role players are who are responsible for the Spurs' spectacular start. I suspect even Parker, who has performed at such a high level is coasting.

Duncan peaking by February-March would be ideal. And Ginobili needs to get his shot rhythm by then as well.

And yes, Bonner, Baynes and De Colo seem redundant. Better trade a combination of some of them for a need - a small ball PF as the situation presents itself soon. I am holding hope for a Shawn Marion type through a waiver deal as well.

[ElNono]

Thanks for the writeup Bruno :tu

[Prime Time]

Interesting comment by Nando there. The vets did look gassed in the finals, had not it been for Green's shooting display/Kawhi's activity the series would have been over rather quickly. If they've developed a new training system that makes the veterans more energized by May, that can only do good.

And Spurs are still 9-1. That 2011 Spurs club also 9-1 to start their season, And That was during their peak.

It's safe to say Spurs are far from their peak right now.

[313]

:toast gjdm

No comment on Blair replacement?

[Mugen]

Good writeup, thanks B. I've had more issue with Duncan's shot than anything tbh. He looks the same defensively and his mobility looks fine to me. Maybe not 2013 Duncan but still a very good bigman in today's NBA tbh. But the shot looks really flat. Good news is that's correctable and we don't need 2013 Duncan to be a legit contender again this season IMO.

Ginobili is what he is at this point. Not really worried. A decline for Gino/Timmy is not unexpected and its impact can be mitigated by featuring Kawhi more, which Pop seems to want to do.

Very good start to the season all things considered and I think there's a lot of room for improvement still.

[Robz4000]

Solid write-up. I'm with Spursfanfromafar (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15183), I think TD is coasting as well. He looks great physically and when needed he still plays elite defense. I think Manu is doing pretty good all things considered (his three-point shot has been getting a bit better the last few games). However, what really makes me hopeful for Manu is his explosiveness; he's been driving to the hoop at a good level, and he isn't needlessly sacrificing his body as he usually has. If Manu can stay healthy all season (big if) the Spurs will be deadly come the postseason seeing as he'll have his rhythm. Parker is definitely coasting imo. When he's been needed this season he's turned it on and become near unstoppable.

This might be the best bench the Spurs have had outside possibly 2007. That Dude is such a great fit and he's just starting to gel with the team. However, the biggest factor to that is Diaw 2.0; if he keeps this up I see no reason he can't contend for 6MoY or MIP. Then again, I would also be okay with moving him back to the starting lineup so the Spurs can have solid rim protection 48 minutes a game. Could also jumpstart the offense to the elite level it was at last year. Lastly, as much as I like Bonner and Bayne, if they can procure the Spurs an Ariza or Marion, that'd be amazing.

[TXstbobcat]

Thank you Bruno.

[DJR210]

Duncan and Ginobili:
That's the true bad news of these first 10 games. With a respective PER of 15.4 and 14.9, both Tim and Manu have looked bad this year and given their ages that's worrisome.

Did you expect anything else from Manu?

[EVAY]

Wow. What a terrific write-up. Thank you very much. It is always so helpful to have what we think we are seeing verified with actual stats.

I have wondered if Manu could be helped by working with Chip Engelland. I mean I know that Manu is way accomplished and everything, but I honestly think that his three point shot is broken. I am less sure about Tim, but he looks more like three years ago than last year, and that is not a good thing.

Thanks again for the great work. Great reading!!

[Bruno]

Did you expect anything else from Manu?

I expect him to play a bigger role. Aside of a poor 3 point shooting, Manu hasn't been that bad this season but it's jsut that the game is less and less centered around him. He should be able to be more than a supporting character.

[Stabula]

Tim doesn't seem like the type of player to coast through a season. His renaissance last year was noticeable from day one and lasted the entirety of the season so I'm concerned with his performance so far.

[Lincoln]

He's probably still concerned about The Missed layup, gettin cucked and exposed as a homosexual this summer.


He will bounce back tho and have a solid year. He is the GOAT PF after all despite the inability to make a 2 foot layup with the championship on the line

[Bruno]

:toast gjdm

No comment on Blair replacement?

While Blair had a lot of qualities, he also had a lot of drawbacks that hurted Spurs. At the end , I think he was more a negative presence than a positive one.
Ayres is doing his best impersonation of the invisible man.
I guess you could call Ayres an "upgrade" since nothing is better than something negative.

Saying that, I still have no clue why Spurs went so early in the summer after Ayres for more than the min salary.

[ace3g]

9-1 is great. While it's true Spurs have faced low level opponents, 9-1 with 6 games on the road and with these 10 games played in only 17 days, can only be seen as a very good start of the season. Some thoughts on some more specific aspects:


Belinelli versus Neal:
Neal (and Blair, but that's another subject), being an empty stats player that didn't make the team better was reflected in his on/off court stats. During his career with Spurs to offense wasn't really better while he was on the court while the defense was significantly worse.
Belinelli seems to be a way superior team player. That's what the naked eye said and stats confirmed it. His +/- is right now at +10.1 points per 100 possession while Neal was at +4.2 points with Spurs.


This can't be true, Belinelli is terrible...

[benefactor]

This can't be true, Belinelli is terrible...
:lol Raven...for some reason she just won't back off of it. If you call her out on it she just moves the goalposts a bazillion times.

[Hemotivo]

He's probably still concerned about The Missed layup, gettin cucked and exposed as a homosexual this summer.


He will bounce back tho and have a solid year. He is the GOAT PF after all despite the inability to make a 2 foot layup with the championship on the line
:wow

[PlayNando]

Good stuff, Bruno, per par. :tu

[Raven]

:lol Raven...for some reason she just won't back off of it. If you call her out on it she just moves the goalposts a bazillion times.

perhaps it's for the same reasons that i thought nando and baynes were bad signings, despite some early success and hype. I've seen him play a lot more times than you did, simple as that. Also, among our players that played more than garbage time, he has the worst defensive rating, not to mention the act that he played a lot with Diaw and his magic, inflating his stats.

[benefactor]

:lol...I've had league pass since before he came in the NBA, you dumb bitch. Sorry, your latest goalpost move is full of fail just like your other ones.

Find a different shtick...anyone with a pair of eyes can see through your Beli hate one.

[Raven]

:lol...I've had league pass since before he came in the NBA, you dumb bitch. Sorry, your latest goalpost move is full of fail just like your other ones.

Find a different shtick...anyone with a pair of eyes can see through your Beli hate one.

:lol very related

no need to hate on me tbh, just wait.

[freetiago]

The big reason the offense suffers is because Tony Parker doesn't decide to show up til the 4th quarter
Spurs lack of playmakers/ball handlers get exposed big time especially when you see someone like Leonard/Green having to handle the ball because of those no PG type lineups
Parker needs to become a 25 ppg scorer consistently for the Spurs to reach their full offensive potential like he was playing in January/February last season


Tim is just missing mid range shots right now
its not really his overall offense
hes primarily a pick and pop player now so his FG% will be lower then his career numbers and hes on a cold shooting streak
I don't think his shot abandoned him yet so well see in the coming games if it gets better

[benefactor]

:lol very related

no need to hate on me tbh, just wait.


I've seen him play a lot more times than you did, simple as that.

[exstatic]

Tim doesn't seem like the type of player to coast through a season. His renaissance last year was noticeable from day one and lasted the entirety of the season so I'm concerned with his performance so far.

:lol You must not have watched about the 5 seasons before the last one. Robert Horry was a horrible influence on TIm.

[Raven]

:lol are you seriously trying to sell me that since you have nba pass, you've been watching belinelli on any regular season game that was not against the spurs? Even if you did, you still wouldn't have seen the player as much as i did, i've seen this guy play even in friendly matches with his national team, seriously, don't even try, you just look pathetic. Also, how do you explain every team up until now has given up on him? Let me just ask you this, do you think he is a better player than Dumbleavy?

[313]

Tim is probably still trying to recover his rhythm after getting elbowed in the chest. That's a painful and uncomfortable place to catch a hard elbow.

[cd021]

He's probably still concerned about The Missed layup, gettin cucked and exposed as a homosexual this summer.


He will bounce back tho and have a solid year. He is the GOAT PF after all despite the inability to make a 2 foot layup with the championship on the line

your team won 67 games and lost to a team that won 47 games.GSW got in because your team chose to rest their starters on the final day of the season.

Had a 2-0 in the NBA Finals but lost 4 straight games.

[Chinook]

Good take Bruno. Thanks for the hard work.

I've been wanting the Spurs to go after a starting power forward even when the Duncan/Splitter combo was putting up great numbers. It's probably not worth it to give up a rotation player to acquire one. I think they'll get better, but if not, Diaw is playing well enough that starting him may be a good option. If Ayres can get his shot back, he should be able to split time with Bonner as the fourth big next to Splitter for the second unit.

Still not a fan of Belinelli. I think he fits in fine enough, but I still don't trust him. In general, I question the increase in numbers as the Spurs in general have been dominating teams. We'll see if the numbers hold up. But it's encouraging that he at least seems like he can hold down a rotation spot.

[cd021]

I'm expecting...

Parker-20ppg
Duncan-15ppg
Leonard-13ppg
Ginobili-11.5 ppg
Diaw-10.5 ppg
Belineli-9 ppg
Splitter-8.5 ppg
Green-8.5 ppg


Duncan will take a back seat while the Spurs further diversify their offensive attack. Any one of those players are capable of leading the team in scoring on any given night. His minutes will also drop back down to about 27 a night instead of the 30 he player per game last season.

[benefactor]

:lmao

I don't pay for league pass just to watch the Spurs, stupid...I pay for it to watch the NBA. I watch games almost every damn night. And :lol citing international matches...that doesn't mean shit in NBA.

Teams gave up on him...holy fuck...let me count out the fail in this one...

GS...horrible, Don Nelson coached team
Raptors...nothing else needs to be said
Hornets...they re-signed him to the QO, then he left for Chicago in free agency because they are good NO is a dumpster fire
Bulls...signed him as a free agent and he proceeded to become one of their most clutch players(several game winners and a huge game 7 performance against the Nets)

He left the Bulls in free agency and by his own admission took less money to play with the Spurs.

So once again, there is no end to your reaching. It's getting embarrassing now.:lol

[ace3g]

When the Spurs offense struggles, that's when they should initiate "Post attack" aka Cream Shake/Kawhi So Serious; give the ball to Diaw and/or Kawhi in the post and let them go to work.

[Raven]

:lmao

I don't pay for league pass just to watch the Spurs, stupid...I pay for it to watch the NBA. I watch games almost every damn night. And :lol citing international matches...that doesn't mean shit in NBA.

Teams gave up on him...holy fuck...let me count out the fail in this one...

GS...horrible, Don Nelson coached team
Raptors...nothing else needs to be said
Hornets...they re-signed him to the QO, then he left for Chicago in free agency because NO is a dumpster fire
Bulls...signed him as a free agent and he proceeded to become one of their most clutch players(several game winners and a huge game 7 performance against the Nets)

He left the Bulls in free agency and by his own admission took less money to play with the Spurs.

So once again, there is no end to your reaching. It's getting embarrassing now.:lol

yeah "nothing else needs to be said" indeed proves your theories :lol
if anything, it proves that he's a shitty player even further since he couldn't even stand out in a shitty team.. and :lol at that chicago bullshit, the team gave up on him, period.

[Kidd K]

Good read OP.

I agree about Diaw. I have noticed several games ago that Diaw was taking shots much quicker and it's been paying off. Looks like all he needed was some confidence. Speaking of contract year though, I thought they already just gave him a deal. Is it already expiring?

As for Duncan, in the offseason I was saying I suspected Duncan would tail off this year after being demoralized with the loss last season. He worked his ass off all year, carrying the team and expecting to be rewarded with a title, yet due to circumstances mostly out of his control, we lost. We're probably seeing the residual effects of depression or PTSD for Timmy over the Finals last year. And no I'm not kidding.

It should wear off as the season goes on, but I wouldn't be surprised if he tails off a bit mid-season too even if he improves sooner than later.

He seems mostly fine physically though outside of that dipshit elbowing him at the beginning of the season, and some slightly noticable energy problems. He seems to get tired a lot quicker than he did last year.

Regardless, I don't think going away from Duncan is going to lead to anything positive. We did that in 2011 and got knocked out in the first round. We have to get something out of the frontcourt because that will be our most reliable source of scoring in the postseason when the more jittery players keep clanking their jumpers.

[ABC]

Thanks Bruno.

[ducks]

another great thing is parker has not played the 4 quarter 4 games if I rember what Sean said last night against the jazz
it might have been three games

[benefactor]

yeah "nothing else needs to be said" indeed proves your theories :lol
if anything, it proves that he's a shitty player even further since he couldn't even stand out in a shitty team.. and :lol at that chicago bullshit, the team gave up on him, period.
:lol couldn't stand out...holy shit what NBA are you watching? He played great in NO. BRHornet wasn't riding his nuts for nothing. Every other day he was posting videos/gifs of the great plays the Beli was making.

So now we go from "all those teams giving up on him" to "Chicago gave up on him." Your goalpost moves just never end. It's like arguing with my six year old niece.

Chicago let him walk because they were in cap hell and they didn't want to pay him...the same reason they let Nate Robinson walk. They knew other teams were going to come calling so they moved quickly on Dunleavy. Beli said himself that it was a no-brainer when Pop called him and he gladly took less to play for him and compete for a title. But keep trying to push your unsubstantiated, "they gave up on him" bullshit.:lol

[Baam]

Awesome read.

The Duncan Splitter thing is especially worrying when they just gave Splitter that big contract for being a great fit more than for his real talent level...

If Tim doesn't come back to his miraculous 2012-13 level then what? That'd mean that the frontcourt is fucked... There's no depth as proven with Ayres being the 4th big atm...

[ace3g]

I was thinking about this earlier (part of the reason I included the game # in the thread title), we should do this every 10 games to re-examine the team.

[Libri]

Perhaps in the next edition of random thoughts you can share some insight about Leonard. There was talk that this could be Kawhi's breakout season and that he would become a major protagonist, especially on the offensive side. His ppg and FG attempts are up only slightly from last season. It's early in the season so maybe this topic can be revisited when more games have been played.

[RD2191]

Tim struggled with his mid range game early in the season last year. He even looked like he was done for a couple of games there. He just needs time to get into his rhythm.

[Raven]

:lol couldn't stand out...holy shit what NBA are you watching? He played great in NO. BRHornet wasn't riding his nuts for nothing. Every other day he was posting videos/gifs of the great plays the Beli was making.

So now we go from "all those teams giving up on him" to "Chicago gave up on him." Your goalpost moves just never end. It's like arguing with my six year old niece.

Chicago let him walk because they were in cap hell and they didn't want to pay him...the same reason they let Nate Robinson walk. They knew other teams were going to come calling so they moved quickly on Dunleavy. Beli said himself that it was a no-brainer when Pop called him and he gladly took less to play for him and compete for a title. But keep trying to push your unsubstantiated, "they gave up on him" bullshit.:lol

so they booted nate robinson and belinelli while keeping hinrich and signing dumbleavy for more, because they were cap strapped :lol:lol:lol.. i'm pointing out the chicago example because it's the most obvious and you keep deflecting.. he was booted from every team he was in and will be booted by the spurs soon enough. And he was terrible in NO, not sure why would he hype a player of a 21-45 season but whatever..

[benefactor]

What does keeping Hinrich have to do with anything? He's still under contract...and he's an expiring too. Fuck you suck at talking basketball. :lol

Let me say it again since you are so fucking slow and/or seem to have a super selective memory. Chicago let him walk because they could not afford to keep him...period. They signed Dunleavy because they knew this. There were reports that Beli had a lucrative offer from Cleveland but when Pop called he jumped at the chance to be with the Spurs and Manu and took less money because of that. They didn't pay Dunleavy more when they could have kept Beli at the price the Spurs paid.

These are facts, not deflecting. If you want I can get you a link to article with the Cleveland information in it. How about you get me one that details Chicago "giving up" on Beli for any other reason than money?

[HarlemHeat37]

Ultimately, the answer for the Duncan question is complicated, but the question to ask is pretty simple, tbh..

Duncan is only taking approximately 25% of his shots at the rim, which is by far the lowest off his career and 10% less than he did last year, which is a significant disparity for a high-usage player, tbh..his shooting % at the rim is concerning compared to last season, though, obviously..

However, the larger issue is obviously the jump shot..46% of Duncan's shot attempts are jump shots, usually playing with Parker, which is roughly the same number we have come to expect of Duncan 2.0, which is the face-up Tim we've seen since the 2010-2011 season..

He's taking the same attempts, but he's shooting an atrocious 23% from the 15-18 feet area, where 46% of his shot attempts are taken..this number is by far the worst of Duncan's career and almost 20% worse than his % from 2010 to 2013, tbh..

So the question is simple IMO..is it a slump or did Tim's jump shot die in a matter of months?..did the long run to the Finals take a toll on his legs, thus breaking his jump shot?..the answer is complicated, as the sample size is small, but the question is simple..

As a matter of fact, all the questions surrounding Duncan are simple IMO..

Is he only taking 25% of his shots at the rim because he's having trouble with confidence in his ability to score against defenders, so he's settling for worse shots? Or is he conserving his body for the long-run, rather than taking abuse inside, after the Spurs just had an excruciating drive to mid-June?..

Is he shooting 23% from his favorite spot because he's in a slump or is it because his legs/jump shot are done?..

Personally, I won't be concerned unless I don't see improvement in his jump shit before January, tbh..

[BillMc]

Ultimately, the answer for the Duncan question is complicated, but the question to ask is pretty simple, tbh..

Duncan is only taking approximately 25% of his shots at the rim, which is by far the lowest off his career and 10% less than he did last year, which is a significant disparity for a high-usage player, tbh..his shooting % at the rim is concerning compared to last season, though, obviously..

However, the larger issue is obviously the jump shot..46% of Duncan's shot attempts are jump shots, usually playing with Parker, which is roughly the same number we have come to expect of Duncan 2.0, which is the face-up Tim we've seen since the 2010-2011 season..

He's taking the same attempts, but he's shooting an atrocious 23% from the 15-18 feet area, where 46% of his shot attempts are taken..this number is by far the worst of Duncan's career and almost 20% worse than his % from 2010 to 2013, tbh..

So the question is simple IMO..is it a slump or did Tim's jump shot die in a matter of months?..did the long run to the Finals take a toll on his legs, thus breaking his jump shot?..the answer is complicated, as the sample size is small, but the question is simple..

As a matter of fact, all the questions surrounding Duncan are simple IMO..

Is he only taking 25% of his shots at the rim because he's having trouble with confidence in his ability to score against defenders, so he's settling for worse shots? Or is he conserving his body for the long-run, rather than taking abuse inside, after the Spurs just had an excruciating drive to mid-June?..

Is he shooting 23% from his favorite spot because he's in a slump or is it because his legs/jump shot are done?..

Personally, I won't be concerned unless I don't see improvement in his jump shit before January, tbh..

These are some really interesting points. I for one think its a combination of a slump (for the jumpshots) and preserving his body (which explains the low % at the rim.)

It is really an odd coincidence that KG who is almost the exact same age as Duncan is having his worst shooting percentage this season too. His jumper has also dropped off a cliff. I haven't watched a lot of Nets games but the few I've seen where Garnett played his looked far worse than Timmy.

Timmy's rebounding drop could be age, exhaustion (from last year's deep run) or the fact that he's spending more time farther from the basket. We'll see as the season progresses.

[Chinook]

Extremely solid take, Harlem. His shot looks even flatter than it did last season. That implies a mechanical flaw rather than just a slump. Elliott said it was a matter of will, so that gives us hope that it's more Duncan coasting than anything else. However, if he can no longer elevate enough to make his outside shot consistently, he's in trouble. His ability to shoot from midrange is vital both to his game and to the flow of the offense. If he can no longer spread the floor, he and Splitter cannot play together. So there goes the defense, too.

[HarlemHeat37]

The reason for the offensive struggles isn't complicated, either IMO..

Duncan's usage rate is 25%, he still plays the 2nd most important role in the offense..if a player within your offense has a 25% usage rate in a big-minute role but is shooting 23% from the spot on the floor where he usually does most of his damage, it's going to kill your offense..

The Spurs offense has been anemic with Tim on the floor, entirely due to his broken jump shot, tbh..


Manu has also been pretty terrible on offense so far this season, tbh, particularly due to his broken 3-point shot..

Spurs are fortunate that they have the best defense in the West, that Mills has been scorching hot, and that an aggressive Boris Diaw is a great complimentary big that creates mismatches, tbh..

If Duncan can make his jump shot at even a few % points lower than his average from the past 3 years, the Spurs offense should rise to at least around 6th-7th, like last year..

[HarlemHeat37]

These are some really interesting points. I for one think its a combination of a slump (for the jumpshots) and preserving his body (which explains the low % at the rim.)

It is really an odd coincidence that KG who is almost the exact same age as Duncan is having his worst shooting percentage this season too. His jumper has also dropped off a cliff. I haven't watched a lot of Nets games but the few I've seen where Garnett played his looked far worse than Timmy.

Timmy's rebounding drop could be age, exhaustion (from last year's deep run) or the fact that he's spending more time farther from the basket. We'll see as the season progresses.

Yep, and Garnett is one of my favorite players, I've noticed his struggles as well..he has had a similar drop-off to Tim's this season, but even worse since the spot-up jump shot is his only form of scoring..

The KG situation is also complicated..he has complained about the Nets coaches fucking with his minutes too much, which has certainly been the case so far, and that it hasn't allowed him to get in any type of rhythm this season..that could be the case, or he could just be done, like we're asking re: Duncan..m

[Brunodf]

He's probably still concerned about The Missed layup, gettin cucked and exposed as a homosexual this summer.


He will bounce back tho and have a solid year. He is the GOAT PF after all despite the inability to make a 2 foot layup with the championship on the line
He's probably still wondering no matter what he does , in the end Pop is the one who will stop him from winning number #5

[venitian navigator]

I don't know if I'm the only one that's pleased with the chance to have two reserve bigs like Ayers and Baynes. I like them both, also if they're obvioulsy struggling at the moment. defensively, ayers imho is really good. Baynes is abvioulsy liomited against some players (pic and roll ones), but imho is a strong weapon against the big ones (a la Howard), 'cause nobody in the league is going to take a "body advantage" on him in the paint.
Also, both are very good rebounders (when Baynes is on the court looks like other players have no chance to rebound).
On offense, I think they 're just lacking confidence (expecially on their jump shots), but seems ovious to me that they both have the skills to play better and one thing that they have in common is that both of them can run the court the same or better than their opposite big man.
In time, imho, they both should be playing better, also way better...and probably the main reason they're developing so slowly is becouse Boris is playing so well that would be stupid to play someone else.

[Johnny RIngo]

Yep, and Garnett is one of my favorite players, I've noticed his struggles as well..he has had a similar drop-off to Tim's this season, but even worse since the spot-up jump shot is his only form of scoring..

The KG situation is also complicated..he has complained about the Nets coaches fucking with his minutes too much, which has certainly been the case so far, and that it hasn't allowed him to get in any type of rhythm this season..that could be the case, or he could just be done, like we're asking re: Duncan..m

KG looks done imo. 82games says he's hurting the Nets on both ends of the court. In the past, you could at least depend on Garnett to be a game changer on defense.

Duncan's problems are his jumpshot and rebounding. He's not playing at anywhere near the same level he did last season but at least he doesn't look finished like Garnett

[will_spurs]

He's taking the same attempts, but he's shooting an atrocious 23% from the 15-18 feet area, where 46% of his shot attempts are taken..this number is by far the worst of Duncan's career and almost 20% worse than his % from 2010 to 2013, tbh..

I noticed that against the 76ers or Wizards, a lot of Duncan's jump shots were taken directly from the top of the key area, which means he has no angle to the basket. It's basically an extended FT. I think he bricked all of those.

Against Utah, he started to take more jump shots around the corner of the paint, which gives a bit of angle. He tended to nail those shots at a decent rate.

I'd really like to see a shot chart for Duncan in the past 3 games, as it should show this quite clearly.

[will_spurs]

Actually I found a shot chart for the last 30 days: http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/1131

(full Duncan report is here: http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/page/1131-Tim-Duncan)

You'll noticed that he's abysmal from the top of the key (roughly 7% !!!) and vaguely better from the area directly to the right. But on the left hand side he's 5-for-12 or so, which is much better.

It started against Utah and I can only assume he's going to position himself and receive the ball a lot more often slightly to the left of the top of the key.

[hyhy]

Aron Baynes:
It's a little anecdotal but while I was looking at Spurs stats to do that post, I was amazed by how horrible Baynes stats were. He has a -5.6 PER and a -38 +/-. It isn't a surprise why Ayres is above him in the rotation even if he has shown close to nothing on the court.

I agree with whatever u said on everything else and thank you for the insights. However, this is one stat I do not agree with. Baynes was mostly played in garbage time with the 3 PGs lineup. This explains his +/- alot and cannot be compared to Ayres, where Ayres is able to play with the starters to gain the +/-s. Then again, I am not saying baynes is better than Ayres, just that it is an unfair competition with the stats.

[TrainOfThought5]

Actually I found a shot chart for the last 30 days: http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/1131

(full Duncan report is here: http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/page/1131-Tim-Duncan)

You'll noticed that he's abysmal from the top of the key (roughly 7% !!!) and vaguely better from the area directly to the right. But on the left hand side he's 5-for-12 or so, which is much better.

It started against Utah and I can only assume he's going to position himself and receive the ball a lot more often slightly to the left of the top of the key.

quality post. Thanks for the info.

[Brazil]

Great read Bruno. French rule dat Spurs and dat forum tbh

[Bruno]

However, this is one stat I do not agree with. Baynes was mostly played in garbage time with the 3 PGs lineup. This explains his +/- alot and cannot be compared to Ayres, where Ayres is able to play with the starters to gain the +/-s. Then again, I am not saying baynes is better than Ayres, just that it is an unfair competition with the stats.

I agree with you that the +/- stat for Baynes is screwed by the garbage time. I was more referring at his dismal PER to explain why Ayres is ahead of him in the rotation.

BTW, Baynes +/- breakdown regarding garbage time is:
Outside garbage time: -13 in 35 minutes.
Garbage time: -25 in 18 minutes.

[Bruno]

Regarding Duncan, the shooting slump for midrange shots is obvious but it isn't the only issue. It's difficult to express it with stat because the sample size is small but I find that he just doesn't look as good as last year physically.

A stat that might show that, is his number of dunks. It quite reflected his physical state in the past and numbers aren't good in that area too for him. Last season, Tim had 61 dunks in 2078 minutes. This season, it's 3 dunks in 226 minutes.

[hyhy]

I agree with you that the +/- stat for Baynes is screwed by the garbage time. I was more referring at his dismal PER to explain why Ayres is ahead of him in the rotation.

BTW, Baynes +/- breakdown regarding garbage time is:
Outside garbage time: -13 in 35 minutes.
Garbage time: -25 in 18 minutes.

PER can be affected by players he play with. Ayres, playing with the main rotation, is getting most of his shots open right at the basket, while Baynes is only getting open looks at the baseline 2 pointers, or he has to post up himself. Maybe given a chance, Baynes may outperform Ayres. Interesting to see his outside garbage time to be -13 though. Whats Ayres'?

[Kamnik]

Great read Bruno, thanks!

[Bruno]

PER can be affected by players he play with. Ayres, playing with the main rotation, is getting most of his shots open right at the basket, while Baynes is only getting open looks at the baseline 2 pointers, or he has to post up himself. Maybe given a chance, Baynes may outperform Ayres. Interesting to see his outside garbage time to be -13 though. Whats Ayres'?

In his 35 non garbage time minutes (games against Lakers, Blazers and Warriors), Baynes had 7 points (3/12 from the filed), 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers and 8 fouls. I'm' not sure how it translate PER wise but these aren't great stats.

Ayres is between +45 and +50 outside garbage time this year (it depends on exactly when you make the garbage time start).

[hyhy]

In his 35 non garbage time minutes (games against Lakers, Blazers and Warriors), Baynes had 7 points (3/12 from the filed), 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers and 8 fouls. I'm' not sure how it translate PER wise but these aren't great stats.

Ayres is between +45 and +50 outside garbage time this year (it depends on exactly when you make the garbage time start).

:toast good job Bruno

[spurs10]

Good stuff. Thanks!

[Darius McCrary]

Duncan looks slow and stiff, and it is very worrisome. He's not sliding his feet well, and not jumping well either.

[ace3g]

Jabari Young@jabari_young (http://twitter.com/jabari_young)


Marco Belinelli practicing his pump fakes and 3-pointers. He shooting 47% from 3... Think he wants better #Spurs (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Spurs) pic.twitter.com/rlXtNyNg2Q (http://t.co/rlXtNyNg2Q)https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZS2e7NCEAIuukd.jpg:small (http://t.co/rlXtNyNg2Q)

[ace3g]

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/video/teams/spurs/2013/11/17/131117belinellimov-3043711-5.576x324.jpg (http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/11/17/131117belinellimov-3043711)
Practice: Marco Belinelli
11.17.13 |
3m12s

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/video/teams/spurs/2013/11/17/131117parkermov-3043709-6.576x324.jpg (http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/11/17/131117parkermov-3043709)
Practice: Tony Parker
11.17.13 |
4m26s

[benefactor]

:cryBeli is terrible:cry
:crySpurs will cut his 47% 3 point shooting ass:cry

[ace3g]

:cryBeli is terrible:cry
:crySpurs will cut his 47% 3 point shooting ass:cry

Especially since he makes hockey assists that go uncredited and doesn't pull up for 3 on a fast break...

[benefactor]

Especially since he makes hockey assists that go uncredited and doesn't pull up for 3 on a fast break...
Careful with that logical take. Those aren't well received.

[Brazil]

Speaking of hockey assists I read somewhere that TP is third on the league for those

[DPG21920]

The only thing that concerns me with Beli is he looks terribly less athletic to me. We can mask it for now, but it could be an issue later and especially in the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

Not to harp on it again, but as many of us said, despite the very good start to the season the Spurs FO did a very poor job this off season. They didn't ruin anything, but their moves made very little sense and they were far from maximizing their potential.

[ace3g]

The only thing that concerns me with Beli is he looks terribly less athletic to me. We can mask it for now, but it could be an issue later and especially in the playoffs.

Yeah he use to be able to dunk (not super flashy or anything), but he is still able to finish at the basket though which is a positive (something that really hurt Nando).


In regards to having another SF, Josh Howard while he didn't shoot well in the game I was able to find stats for, he did grab 11 boards, a stat I'm going to keep track of as he plays games for the Toros.

[ace3g]

Not to harp on it again, but as many of us said, despite the very good start to the season the Spurs FO did a very poor job this off season. They didn't ruin anything, but their moves made very little sense and they were far from maximizing their potential.

I've been disappointed in Ayres mostly because I thought with his jumper, he could work well in the PnR, but that hasn't been the case. From another stand point I'm kind of glad we didn't sign AK47 now, he has been struggling with back spasms most of the season, has only played in 4 games.

[BackHome]

Well I am glad that Mills is doing good when I first saw him I didn't even recognize him I thought it was still Parker. He is a Neal like clone as far as shooting and a better PG which I am glad that Pop is finally understanding you need to find a backup PG before the playoffs start.

Starting to like Ayres he is not flashy but I like his effort and the guy can dunk the ball and is a pretty good passer.

I also like Diaw this year he seems to be taking the leadership role when he plays with the second unit and is much more focused.

[ace3g]

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/video/teams/spurs/2013/11/17/131117diawmov-3043736-10.576x324.jpg (http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/11/17/131117diawmov-3043736)
Practice: Boris Diaw
11.17.13 |
5m15s

[ace3g]

Rafael Uehara @rafael_uehara
(http://twitter.com/rafael_uehara)
While you are not paying attention, Patty Mills is posting an 18 PER & shooting 52% from three-point on 25 attempts in 155 minutes.

[DPG21920]

Although that stat is impressive it seems Mills has fallen off some. He was scorching hot the first 4-5 games, then seems to have way cooled off (but I haven't checked).

[Darius McCrary]

Mills wouldn't have maintained that percentage of scoring anyways. That always happens to a player in the Spurs System, even Manu has gone through chunks of a season shooting a god-level of 3point percentage.

I've just been happy with the level of energy Patrick is bringing on both ends of the floor. He hasn't been sloppy. This is what we need.

[DPG21920]

Agreed - was commenting solely about the 3 pt shooting. But I am thrilled with Patty so far. I just hope that unless there is a prolonged string of bad play, that Pop sticks with Patty and let's him develop in a consistent role.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

:tu some really solid takes in this thread. Brunobringing out the best in spurstalk.

[urunobili]

awesome analysis :tu

[ace3g]

http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/NBA-recap--featuring-Patty-Mills/62590

NBA recap - featuring Patty Mills

NBA recap thanks to Morning Glory interview with Australian NBA star Patty Mills who is enjoying a promising start to the season with the San Antonio Spurs.

Australian point guard Patty Mills is enjoying an exciting start to the NBA season along with his San Antonio who have lost only one game in the first ten matches.

In his fifth year in the league, Mills is finally seeing regular action.

The 25-year old is averaging 7.3 points per game in 15 minutes court time as back-up point guard behind perennial All-Star Tony Parker.

He credits a great pre-season for his promising start.

“Just playing with a chip on my shoulder and understanding that I do belong in the league and just remembering who I am as a point guard and as a player.

“I had a good run at the early part of this year and still learning a lot behind Tony and he is helping me along the way.

http://www.sen.com.au/display-article-2013/NBA-recap--featuring-Patty-Mills/62590

[PlayNando]

Great read Bruno. French rule dat Spurs and dat forum tbh
:tu

[wildbill2u]

I expect him to play a bigger role. Aside of a poor 3 point shooting, Manu hasn't been that bad this season but it's jsut that the game is less and less centered around him. He should be able to be more than a supporting character.

When a player deteriorates because of age, the first thing to go are the legs. And so far Manu seems to be going to the basket pretty well. Although the legs are an integral part of the jump shot, a lot of Manu's 3s arent really jumpers in the classic sense of the jump shot--more of a push or set shot, especially his step back 3.

I'd really like to know if the players get regular eye exams before the season because eyesight problems are so gradual that they can creep up on you as you age. Maybe he's just not seeing the basket very well these days.

[ace3g]

Speaking of the next 10 games, I forgot about the game in Mexico:



November
Opponent
Time
Local TV
Nat TV
Radio


Wed 20
vs Boston (http://www.nba.com/celtics) (http://www.ticketmaster.com/san-antonio-spurs-vs-boston-celtics-san-antonio-texas-2013-11-20/event/0C004B290B64D883?brand=spurs&wt.mc_id=NBA_TEAM_SCHED_PG_PRI_SAN&camefrom=CFC_SPURS_SCHED) AT&T Center, San Antonio, TX

7:30 PM
FSSW


1200WOAI/1350KCOR


Fri 22
@ Memphis (http://www.nba.com/grizzlies) FedExForum, Memphis, TN

7:00 PM
FSSW
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/broadcastlogos/broadcast_ESPN.gif
1200WOAI/1350KCOR


Sat 23
vs Cleveland (http://www.nba.com/cavaliers) (http://www.ticketmaster.com/san-antonio-spurs-vs-cleveland-cavaliers-san-antonio-texas-2013-11-23/event/0C004B290B68D88D?brand=spurs&wt.mc_id=NBA_TEAM_SCHED_PG_PRI_SAN&camefrom=CFC_SPURS_SCHED) AT&T Center, San Antonio, TX

7:30 PM
FSSW


1200WOAI/1350KCOR


Mon 25
vs New Orleans (http://www.nba.com/pelicans) (http://www.ticketmaster.com/san-antonio-spurs-vs-new-orleans-pelicans-san-antonio-texas-2013-11-25/event/0C004B290B6DD890?brand=spurs&wt.mc_id=NBA_TEAM_SCHED_PG_PRI_SAN&camefrom=CFC_SPURS_SCHED) AT&T Center, San Antonio, TX

7:30 PM
FSSW


1200WOAI/1350KCOR


Wed 27
@ Oklahoma City (http://www.nba.com/thunder) Chesapeake Energy Arena, Oklahoma City, OK

7:00 PM
FSSW


1200WOAI/1350KCOR


Fri 29
@ Orlando (http://www.nba.com/magic) Amway Center, Orlando, FL

6:00 PM
FSSW


1200WOAI/1350KCOR


Sat 30
vs Houston (http://www.nba.com/rockets) (http://www.ticketmaster.com/san-antonio-spurs-vs-houston-rockets-san-antonio-texas-2013-11-30/event/0C004B290B72D8A0?brand=spurs&wt.mc_id=NBA_TEAM_SCHED_PG_PRI_SAN&camefrom=CFC_SPURS_SCHED) AT&T Center, San Antonio, TX

7:30 PM
KENS HD


1200WOAI/1350KCOR




December
Opponent
Time
Local TV
Nat TV
Radio


Mon 2
vs Atlanta (http://www.nba.com/hawks) (http://www.ticketmaster.com/san-antonio-spurs-vs-atlanta-hawks-san-antonio-texas-2013-12-02/event/0C004B290B76D8A3?brand=spurs&wt.mc_id=NBA_TEAM_SCHED_PG_PRI_SAN&camefrom=CFC_SPURS_SCHED) AT&T Center, San Antonio, TX

7:30 PM
FSSW


1200WOAI/1350KCOR


Wed 4

@ Minnesota (http://www.nba.com/timberwolves) Mexico City Arena, Mexico City, Mexico

8:30 PM
FSSW
NBATV
1200WOAI/1350KCOR


Sat 7
vs Indiana (http://www.nba.com/pacers) (http://www.ticketmaster.com/san-antonio-spurs-vs-indiana-pacers-san-antonio-texas-2013-12-07/event/0C004B290B7BD8B3?brand=spurs&wt.mc_id=NBA_TEAM_SCHED_PG_PRI_SAN&camefrom=CFC_SPURS_SCHED) AT&T Center, San Antonio, TX

7:30 PM
FSSW


1200WOAI/1350KCOR

[wildchild]

Thanks Bruno.



Spurs defensive rebounding:
Spurs have been these past years an elite defensive rebounding team and they are having an even better start than usual this year.
The improvement doesn't really come from the PF/C rotation but from the SG/SF rotation. The 4 main wing (Leonard, Green, Ginobili and Belinelli) are averaging more than 5 defensive rebounds per 36 minutes.
Spurs compensate the lack of an elite defensive rebounder by a team effort.

The Duncan/Splitter pair:
One of the reason of Spurs surge last season was the Splitter/Duncan pairing. They even were the best defensive pair in the NBA. This year it isn't at all the case:
+/- stats for the main Spurs bigmen pair:
Duncan/Splitter: -13 in 98 minutes
Duncan/Diaw: +48 in 94 minutes
Splitter/Diaw: +35 in 70 minutes
Duncan getting better might put back the Duncan/Splitter back on track but if it doesn't happen, it should have consequences on what Spurs should do at the trade deadline. Without the ability to pair Tim and Tiago adding a quality PF becomes an even bigger priority.

If it doesn't happen and we need a PF, who should be traded before the deadline?

Green? We could lose our D/O perimeter balance. Belinelli covers his role?
Leonard? Which player could get in exchange for the most promising guy in the team and his so cheap contract...Not lopsided trade.
Splitter for a great/star PF? On ST "If a team is crazy enough to pay his contract and receive low performances in return" (Compared with other bigmens perhaps his contract isn't so expensive, tbh).

Anyway, I don't really expect a trade.
The Spurs aren't only looking for immediate impact on the court, the FO won't move at deadline to give team the greater financial flexibility in the coming seasons without Timmy or Manu.
Plus, I think there aren't "host of talented PF" that will be available in February.

[tenbeersbold]

What does keeping Hinrich have to do with anything? He's still under contract...and he's an expiring too. Fuck you suck at talking basketball. :lol

Let me say it again since you are so fucking slow and/or seem to have a super selective memory. Chicago let him walk because they could not afford to keep him...period. They signed Dunleavy because they knew this. There were reports that Beli had a lucrative offer from Cleveland but when Pop called he jumped at the chance to be with the Spurs and Manu and took less money because of that. They didn't pay Dunleavy more when they could have kept Beli at the price the Spurs paid.

These are facts, not deflecting. If you want I can get you a link to article with the Cleveland information in it. How about you get me one that details Chicago "giving up" on Beli for any other reason than money?

Actually she doesn't suck but you are a grade A asshole who can't form an opinion w/o insulting someone,which actually reveals your lack of intelligence/poor unmannered upbringing and is why no one takes anything you have to say here with any seriousness at all.

Maybe you should see a shrink cause I'm sensing some serious hatred for women in your posts,tbh,for realz etc

[anakha]

^^ Pot, kettle, black, tbh

[will_spurs]

Bruno, I'm surprised you didn't mention Kawhi. It's his 3rd year in the league, isn't that supposed to be the season when blooming stars reveal themselves? He doesn't seem to be growing or improving. He doesn't seem to be more involved, and he sure doesn't seem to be able to sustain his potential level of play for a whole game.

[benefactor]

^^ Pot, kettle, black, tbh
:lol:tu

[hyhy]

When a player deteriorates because of age, the first thing to go are the legs. And so far Manu seems to be going to the basket pretty well. Although the legs are an integral part of the jump shot, a lot of Manu's 3s arent really jumpers in the classic sense of the jump shot--more of a push or set shot, especially his step back 3.

I'd really like to know if the players get regular eye exams before the season because eyesight problems are so gradual that they can creep up on you as you age. Maybe he's just not seeing the basket very well these days.

I think Manu's threes is more due to his hesitation. When he shoots in rhythm, it goes in most of the time. When he doubts himself and hesitates, and then decides to shoot it anyway, its usually a miss.

[Dex]

Great stuff. Thanks, Bruno! :tu

[PlayNando]

Bruno, I'm surprised you didn't mention Kawhi. It's his 3rd year in the league, isn't that supposed to be the season when blooming stars reveal themselves? He doesn't seem to be growing or improving. He doesn't seem to be more involved, and he sure doesn't seem to be able to sustain his potential level of play for a whole game.

Manu's third year was 2004-2005. Just food for thought.

[Dex]

Bruno, I'm surprised you didn't mention Kawhi. It's his 3rd year in the league, isn't that supposed to be the season when blooming stars reveal themselves? He doesn't seem to be growing or improving. He doesn't seem to be more involved, and he sure doesn't seem to be able to sustain his potential level of play for a whole game.

I think Kawhi's quiet production stems from a lack of attempts, not inefficiency.

For one, he's averaging only 28 minutes (3 less than last year), and is only taking 1 more shot attempt than he was last year. His Field Goal percentage is up, but his 3PT% and FT% are both down (as are his attempts). His rebounding and assist numbers are similar to last years, but unfortunately, his fouls have risen (something he focuses on).

Considering the small sample size, I'm not worried yet, especially since Kawhi almost seemed to be slumping early. Now that he's getting into his groove, I expect those numbers to improve pretty quickly.

However, I still don't think Kawhi will ever be a 20PPG with this Spurs team as currently constructed. There is too much other firepower, and too much emphasis on both team offense and resting players, for Kawhi to get the minutes, touches, and shots he would need to be an "elite scorer".

[Bruno]

If it doesn't happen and we need a PF, who should be traded before the deadline?

Green? We could lose our D/O perimeter balance. Belinelli covers his role?
Leonard? Which player could get in exchange for the most promising guy in the team and his so cheap contract...Not lopsided trade.
Splitter for a great/star PF? On ST "If a team is crazy enough to pay his contract and receive low performances in return" (Compared with other bigmens perhaps his contract isn't so expensive, tbh).


A trade concept that could work would be Spurs trading their expiring contracts at the end of the bench (Bonner, De Colo and Baynes) with, if necessary, their 2014 first round pick for a players whose contract expires in 2015 when Spurs will use their cap space after Tim and Manu likely retirement.

Some players who might be good targets in that scenario: Amir Johnson, Brandon Bass, Mirza Teletovic, Anderson Varejao, Jonas Jerebko, Derrick Williams, Luc Mbah a Moute...

[DPG21920]

I was just about to post about Amir as a target. He would easily be my choice. However, there has been a lot of disagreement about Amir on this board. Some posters, when I previously suggested sending expiring contracts + draft pick for Amir spoke about Amir as if he was the next great big man and said no way TOR accepts that.

I on the other hand always thought that while he was very solid and usually produced well per minute that he was never as good as some people made him out to be. I'd still want him and I still think a team like TOR would definitely consider moving him if they got a pick and/or decent young player/cap space back.

[Bruno]

Bruno, I'm surprised you didn't mention Kawhi. It's his 3rd year in the league, isn't that supposed to be the season when blooming stars reveal themselves? He doesn't seem to be growing or improving. He doesn't seem to be more involved, and he sure doesn't seem to be able to sustain his potential level of play for a whole game.

Kahwi isn't for sure breaking out but stats showed he has been more involved this year. His usage % was 14.3 in his rookie year, 16.6 last season and 20.0 this year.

Now, my true and only question about Leonard is why he is only playing 28 mpg?
Health issues?
Pop liking other players over him?
Pop limiting his minutes to give some consistent playing time at the other swingmen?

I just hope the reason isn't that his knee is still bothering him.

[DPG21920]

No one has mentioned the knee issue although it was talked about last year so I don't believe that is the issue. I think the issue is why play someone, young or not, any more minutes than you need to in order to win. Sure, the competition will get stronger and the Spurs may need him more minutes, but buying extra rest is crucial even for young players as long as you can win.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol talk about trying too hard with a sss to make a case.

[ace3g]

Speaking of Kawhi, Pop said due to his rehabbing his knee all summer, he didn't really have time work on his game/add anything new; not sure how much truth there is to that statement, but could be a reason.

Good to see his usage % has increased though.

[ace3g]

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/video/teams/spurs/2013/11/18/131118greenmov-3044876-7.576x324.jpg (http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/11/18/131118greenmov-3044876)
Practice: Danny Green
11.18.13 |
4m22s

[Proxy]

Early stages may be treated conservatively using the R.I.C.E (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RICE_(medicine)) methods



Rest
Ice
Compression
Elevation

A physical therapist may also recommend specific exercises and stretches to strengthen the muscles and tendons. Should this fail,autologous blood injection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autologous_blood_injection), or injection of platelet rich plasma may be performed and is typically successful though not as successful as high volume saline injection (Crisp et al.). Uncommonly it may require surgery to remove myxoid degeneration in the tendon. This is reserved for patients with debilitating pain for 6–12 months despite conservative measures. Novel treatment modalities targeting the abnormal blood vessel growth which occurs in the condition are currently being investigated.

per Wikipedia on patellar tendinitis... so what Pop said makes sense

[ace3g]

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/video/teams/spurs/2013/11/18/131118ginobilimov-3044890-7.576x324.jpg (http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/11/18/131118ginobilimov-3044890)
Practice: Manu Ginobili
11.18.13 |
5m15s

[mountainballer]

A trade concept that could work would be Spurs trading their expiring contracts at the end of the bench (Bonner, De Colo and Baynes) with, if necessary, their 2014 first round pick for a players whose contract expires in 2015 when Spurs will use their cap space after Tim and Manu likely retirement.

Some players who might be good targets in that scenario: Amir Johnson, Brandon Bass, Mirza Teletovic, Anderson Varejao, Jonas Jerebko, Derrick Williams, Luc Mbah a Moute...

agree that this is the best (and probably only realistic) scenario.
about the mentioned players....I think the good play from Boris might have changed the needs significantely. guys like Johnson and Bass would take the spot of the #4 big (the role of Ayres) and I think Spurs don't want to pay that kind of money (6-7 million per) to a 15 MPG player. same might go for Jerebko, who I thought was a great idea before the season (he isn't that expensove though, 4.5 million), but he kind of also duplicates what Boris provides at a higher level.
my clear favourite scenario at this point would be a guy like Wilson Chandler. he would devinitely cost the Spurs the first round pick 2014, but he is one player who might be worth it. high quality back up for Kawhi and good option for a small ball PF. with a good ability to defend most PFs. can't tell if he could defend for example Blake Griffin, but my guess is he could do well. he would definitely do well against Lebron and Durant.

you mentioned Teletovic. beside the fact that he totally disappointed till now, this might be the deal with the highest upside, because he should flourish in the Spurs system, considering what he did in Europe and in the international competitions. if a guy like Bonner was able to find his niche with the Spurs, a guy like Teletovich should as well.

[DPG21920]

I don't know if the Nuggets, with a really bad wing depth problem would give up Chandler. They very likely have playoff aspirations and with Danillo out, Chandler is by far their best option.

While a guy like Amir or Bass would be the 4th big, on this team there are plenty of minutes to be had for that player and if they do well, you could easily see the Spurs moving them up in the rotation (it's not a guarantee that Boris keeps up this level). From a financial perspective, it does not change the equation for the Spurs because the salaries would match in a trade and Amir's contract is short (only 5M guaranteed next year too). Boris & Bonner could both be gone next year and the Spurs may very well let Baynes walk too.

[wildchild]

A trade concept that could work would be Spurs trading their expiring contracts at the end of the bench (Bonner, De Colo and Baynes) with, if necessary, their 2014 first round pick for a players whose contract expires in 2015 when Spurs will use their cap space after Tim and Manu likely retirement.

Some players who might be good targets in that scenario: Amir Johnson, Brandon Bass, Mirza Teletovic, Anderson Varejao, Jonas Jerebko, Derrick Williams, Luc Mbah a Moute...

Thanks Bruno. I haven't thought about those players (Bass, Varejao, Jerebko, Williams) for a trade. One of them for Bonner/Baynes and Nando, it might work.

[wildchild]

Manu's third year was 2004-2005. Just food for thought.

It's a misleading/distorted example. Third NBA year of Manu, wasn't his third year of professional player.

I think Manu had several years playing as a pro in his country or Europe, and his third year here was his 9/10 pro year.

Leonard on the other hand, is just starting his third year as a pro. His third year, not ninth or tenth.

[Dex]

It's a misleading/distorted example. Third NBA year of Manu, wasn't his third year of professional player.

I think Manu had several years playing as a pro in his country or Europe, and his third year here was his 9/10 pro year.

Leonard on the other hand, is just starting his third year as a pro. His third year, not ninth or tenth.

Bingo. Compare that to the benchmark of Tony Parker, who essentially came into the Spurs as a freshman or sophomore at age 19. He was given the keys to the Spurs offense almost immediately, and he didn't hit his statistical peak until his 8th season (at 22 points and 7 assists).

Tony's stats in his 3rd season? 14 and 5.5.

[PlayNando]

It's a misleading/distorted example. Third NBA year of Manu, wasn't his third year of professional player.

I think Manu had several years playing as a pro in his country or Europe, and his third year here was his 9/10 pro year.

Leonard on the other hand, is just starting his third year as a pro. His third year, not ninth or tenth.
Yes, you're right.

[HI-FI]

:tu for the analysis as well. I agree it would be cool to revisit this stuff every 10 games or so, like a cliff notes for where the team is at.


as for Kawhi, Man in Black has said some encouraging things about his knees, and I haven't heard anything about it, so I'm hoping/thinking it's not the issue. Pop probably just wanting to ease him back into things and let him be at full strength for the playoffs.

[will_spurs]

Bingo. Compare that to the benchmark of Tony Parker, who essentially came into the Spurs as a freshman or sophomore at age 19. He was given the keys to the Spurs offense almost immediately, and he didn't hit his statistical peak until his 8th season (at 22 points and 7 assists).

Tony's stats in his 3rd season? 14 and 5.5.

Actually... Tony's career has followed a very peculiar path. But there's a difference between improving and into a statistical peak. Tony had a huge statistical increase between 1st and 2nd season, and then I think in his 4th season settled for fewer 3-pointers, which made his FG% reach the 50%+ level that is quite amazing for a guard. It's not like it happened by magic in his 8th season: it was progressive but with some clear year-to-year improvements at some points.

[Bruno]

agree that this is the best (and probably only realistic) scenario.
about the mentioned players....I think the good play from Boris might have changed the needs significantely. guys like Johnson and Bass would take the spot of the #4 big (the role of Ayres) and I think Spurs don't want to pay that kind of money (6-7 million per) to a 15 MPG player.

The need for a solid PF really depend on the Duncan/Splitter pairing:
- If they can make it work likes last year, Spurs are indeed fine at PF/C a primary rotation of Diaw, Duncan and Splitter with Ayres and Bonner bringing some depth sounds just fine.
- If the Duncan/Splitter pairing continue not to work, Spurs will need another quality PF and go with a true 4 players PF/C rotation. Duncan and Splitter will share the minutes at center while Diaw and the new player will share the minutes at the PF slot.

If I had to guess I would say that the Duncan/Splitter will work again especially when Tim will start hitting his midrange shots.

Regardless of this year need, Spurs could do a trade with 2014-2015 in mind. Duncan will be 1 year older, Diaw might leave as a free agent this summer and Spurs' FO will be reluctant to offer significant multi-years contracts to keep their 2015 cap space intact.

[mountainballer]

I don't know if the Nuggets, with a really bad wing depth problem would give up Chandler. They very likely have playoff aspirations and with Danillo out, Chandler is by far their best option.

While a guy like Amir or Bass would be the 4th big, on this team there are plenty of minutes to be had for that player and if they do well, you could easily see the Spurs moving them up in the rotation (it's not a guarantee that Boris keeps up this level). From a financial perspective, it does not change the equation for the Spurs because the salaries would match in a trade and Amir's contract is short (only 5M guaranteed next year too). Boris & Bonner could both be gone next year and the Spurs may very well let Baynes walk too.

Gallo will be back in two weeks. but even with him out it's not dead-on that they lack wing depth. in fact they might lack the typical 2/3 player (who Wilson isn't either, he is more the typical 3/4), but considering the surprising emergence of Jordan Hamilton even this can be questioned.
what their goals for the season are is another question. I was pretty sure they will tank and they in fact did look like the worst team in the league in the first games. the McGee injury has changed a lot, since he is out they look so much better. but they are still very unlikely to make the PO.
anyway, what I tried to point out was that right now Amir or Bass wouldn't help as much as a player like Chandler would. and of course I would take Johnson in a second, if the price is just Bonner (even plus CJ), I wouldn't scrifice the first rounder 2014. (which would likely be the asking price)
and if it's used as a point, that the Nuggets don't want to get rid of Chandler, why do the Raptors want to get rid of Johnson?

[mountainballer]

If I had to guess I would say that the Duncan/Splitter will work again especially when Tim will start hitting his midrange shots.

Regardless of this year need, Spurs could do a trade with 2014-2015 in mind. Duncan will be 1 year older, Diaw might leave as a free agent this summer and Spurs' FO will be reluctant to offer significant multi-years contracts to keep their 2015 cap space intact.

agree on both points.
Tim/Tiago/Boris is a great big rotation and if this rotation doesn't work for whatever reason (Tim falls of a cliff?), Spurs will go nowhere anyhow. this fact wouldn't be changed by a trade for a player like Johnson or Bass.
the possible 2014/15 perspective is quite interesting, especially if they don't believe Ayres can play a bigger role. this makes the Teletovich idea so intriguing. worst case is, he just replaces Bonner and provides some depth at the end of the big rotation. but the upside is, he flourishes with the Spurs, opens the mentioned stretch 4 option alongside either Tim or Tiago and gives the Spurs another offensive weapon.

[will_spurs]

Diaw might leave as a free agent this summer

That seems extremely unlikely to me.

[objective]

A player who has my interest as a trade target is Marvin Williams. Expiring, and Bonner + De Colo salaries would match money-wise (no doubt Bonner would have to be injured and unavailable, but it could happen). I don't think I'd want the Spurs to give up a first, but maybe a 2nd and some cash could be enough once the full tank is in effect for Utah.

He has transformed into a smallball 4. I know he was one of the guys lit up by Diaw if I remember right, but he's shooting .455 from three this season, and when last in the playoffs in 2012 shot 8-16 on threes. Has nice size for taking on the bigger threes, but rebounds reasonably well enough to handle smallball four.

[Bruno]

That seems extremely unlikely to me.

It's unlikely but I wouldn't go as far as saying "extremely unlikely". Spurs might only offer Diaw an one year contract and even if it's with a high salary, he might sign with a team that will give him a 3 years contract.

[will_spurs]

It's unlikely but I wouldn't go as far as saying "extremely unlikely". Spurs might only offer Diaw an one year contract and even if it's with a high salary, he might sign with a team that will give him a 3 years contract.

Sure. But he likes to play with Parker in this system, and if there's one player for who I'd say this could be worth more than a juicy contract, that's Diaw. He willingly came to the Spurs as a FA and cut his salary in half in the process...

[mountainballer]

Diaw will be 32 this summer. I can't see him land a say 3 years 15 million contract somewhere else. (maybe 3/10 is realistic). I'm pretty sure the Spurs will offer him one more year for the same conditions. maybe for 6M. I think a guy like Boris will rather look for his options in 2015 (what will Tony do then? go back to Europe? 2 more years with a contender?) than look for a contract till 2017. Boris has made some damn nice money (60 million till 2014), he isn't under pressure to follow every Dollar he meets. Spurs will likely start from scratch in 2015, till then I can't see him leave.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Even if the Spurs go rebuilding mode after Duncan and Manu retire in 2015, I don't think they will value Diaw less for his role as a very useful roleplayer. I see Diaw to play as much of an important role in a rebuilding Spurs as much as a contending Spurs, provided he is keen on doing so. And given, the alchemy that the FO generally does for the Spurs (at bad times and not at good times like this offseason), I think they will be in a position to contend even after 2015 when they could recruit a good PF to reboot with Tony, Kawhi, Splitter and that star PF. Diaw will continue to play a good role in that eventuality.

So, if the Spurs offer him a reasonable 3 year 10-13 million or so, it should be a workable deal for both.

[DPG21920]

Gallo will be back in two weeks. but even with him out it's not dead-on that they lack wing depth. in fact they might lack the typical 2/3 player (who Wilson isn't either, he is more the typical 3/4), but considering the surprising emergence of Jordan Hamilton even this can be questioned.
what their goals for the season are is another question. I was pretty sure they will tank and they in fact did look like the worst team in the league in the first games. the McGee injury has changed a lot, since he is out they look so much better. but they are still very unlikely to make the PO.
anyway, what I tried to point out was that right now Amir or Bass wouldn't help as much as a player like Chandler would. and of course I would take Johnson in a second, if the price is just Bonner (even plus CJ), I wouldn't scrifice the first rounder 2014. (which would likely be the asking price)
and if it's used as a point, that the Nuggets don't want to get rid of Chandler, why do the Raptors want to get rid of Johnson?

Gallo could definitely be out longer and who knows how he will be upon his return. I just disagree that the Nuggets are more likely to tank than push for the playoffs. Everything they have done (bring JJ Hickson, new coach, vet/playoff tested guards like Nate Robinson/Foye...) show they are a team trying to win in my opinion. They were a playoff team (3rd seed) last year and I highly doubt they would bring in vets if they planned to tank. They lack 3/4 players IMO as well. Their wings were in terrible shape with Gallo and Chandler out. Hamilton has not been very good and they were even playing Anthony Randolph there in spots. The lack of Gallo/Chandler at the 3 was a large reason they struggled so much this year.

I agree that Chandler would be better than anyone to pick up, no doubt, I just did not see that as anywhere close to as realistic as getting Bass/Amir because of what I mentioned. The Nuggets situation (3rd seed last year, bringing in several vets...) is vastly different than the Raptors who are not only awful this year, but last year as well. They appear to be not only terrible, but it makes a lot more sense for them to tank because of where they were and currently are.

[ace3g]

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2013/11/19/20131118-gametime-spurs.nba

GameTime: Spurs' Hot Start Tracy McGrady and Brent Barry break down the Spurs' hot start this season.

[ace3g]

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/video/teams/spurs/2013/11/19/131119splittermov-3046080-4.576x324.jpg (http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/11/19/131119splittermov-3046080)
Practice: Tiago Splitter
11.19.13 |
3m16s

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/video/teams/spurs/2013/11/19/131119leonardmov-3046076-6.576x324.jpg (http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/11/19/131119leonardmov-3046076)
Practice: Kawhi Leonard
11.19.13 |
2m20s

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/video/teams/spurs/2013/11/19/131119millsmov-3046069-4.576x324.jpg (http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/2013/11/19/131119millsmov-3046069)
Practice: Patty Mills
11.19.13 |
3m13s

[ace3g]

After the Suns/Kings game, all teams have played at least 10 games (except Bucks and Bulls):



Eastern Conference


EASTERN
W (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/wins)
L (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/losses)
PCT (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/winPercent)
GB (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/gamesBehind)
HOME (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/homeWinPercent)
ROAD (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/roadWinPercent)
DIV (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/divisionWinPercent)
CONF (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/leagueWinPercent)
PF (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/avgPointsFor)
PA (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/avgPointsAgainst/order/false)
DIFF
STRK (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/streak)
L10


1
Indiana (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers)
9
1
.900
-
6-0
3-1
4-1
7-1
95.7
86.3
+9.4
Lost 1
9-1


2
Miami (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mia/miami-heat)
8
3
.727
1 ½
6-1
2-2
3-0
6-3
105.9
97.6
+8.3
Won 4
7-3


3
Chicago (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/chi/chicago-bulls)
6
3
.667
2 ½
5-0
1-3
2-1
5-3
94.0
89.0
+5.0
Won 5
6-3


4
Philadelphia (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers)
5
7
.417
5
4-3
1-4
0-0
4-3
103.7
109.9
-6.3
Lost 3
3-7


5
Atlanta (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks)
6
5
.545
3 ½
3-1
3-4
2-1
5-2
103.2
100.6
+2.5
Lost 1
6-4


6
Charlotte (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cha/charlotte-bobcats)
5
6
.455
4 ½
2-3
3-3
0-2
5-4
88.5
92.9
-4.5
Lost 2
5-5


7
Detroit (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)
4
6
.400
5
3-2
1-4
0-1
3-1
99.5
102.0
-2.5
Won 1
4-6


8
Orlando (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/orl/orlando-magic)
4
6
.400
5
4-2
0-4
0-1
2-4
99.9
99.7
+0.2
Lost 1
4-6


http://espn.go.com/i/blackdot.gif



Cleveland (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers)
4
7
.364
5 ½
3-1
1-6
0-3
3-6
92.5
99.5
-7.0
Won 1
3-7



Toronto (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors)
4
7
.364
5 ½
2-3
2-4
1-0
2-5
96.9
97.1
-0.2
Lost 2
3-7



Boston (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/bos/boston-celtics)
4
8
.333
6
2-3
2-5
0-1
3-4
93.4
98.7
-5.3
Lost 4
4-6



Washington (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/wsh/washington-wizards)
3
7
.300
6
2-2
1-5
0-1
2-4
100.4
104.1
-3.7
Won 1
3-7



New York (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks)
3
7
.300
6
1-5
2-2
0-0
3-4
93.5
98.9
-5.4
Lost 3
3-7



Brooklyn (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/bkn/brooklyn-nets)
3
7
.300
6
2-2
1-5
0-0
1-4
97.1
102.4
-5.3
Lost 2
3-7



Milwaukee (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mil/milwaukee-bucks)
2
7
.222
6 ½
1-3
1-4
1-1
2-5
90.2
98.7
-8.4
Lost 5
2-7


Western Conference


WESTERN
W (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/wins)
L (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/losses)
PCT (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/winPercent)
GB (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/gamesBehind)
HOME (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/homeWinPercent)
ROAD (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/roadWinPercent)
DIV (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/divisionWinPercent)
CONF (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/leagueWinPercent)
PF (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/avgPointsFor)
PA (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/avgPointsAgainst/order/false)
DIFF
STRK (http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/streak)
L10


1
San Antonio (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)
9
1
.900
-
4-0
5-1
1-0
6-1
98.6
89.3
+9.3
Won 7
9-1


2
Portland (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/por/portland-trail-blazers)
9
2
.818
½
4-1
5-1
1-0
5-2
104.9
99.5
+5.4
Won 7
9-1


3
Golden State (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors)
8
3
.727
1 ½
5-0
3-3
2-1
6-3
104.3
96.3
+8.0
Won 4
7-3


4
Oklahoma City (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/okc/oklahoma-city-thunder)
7
3
.700
2
4-0
3-3
2-1
4-3
104.2
102.1
+2.1
Won 2
7-3


5
Houston (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/hou/houston-rockets)
8
4
.667
2
5-2
3-2
1-0
4-3
108.8
104.5
+4.3
Won 3
6-4


6
LA Clippers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lac/los-angeles-clippers)
7
4
.636
2 ½
5-1
2-3
2-1
6-2
109.3
105.7
+3.5
Lost 1
7-3


7
Dallas (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/dal/dallas-mavericks)
7
4
.636
2 ½
5-0
2-4
1-1
2-3
105.7
102.7
+3.0
Won 2
6-4


8
Minnesota (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/min/minnesota-timberwolves)
7
5
.583
3
5-1
2-4
1-1
3-3
107.8
100.5
+7.3
Lost 1
5-5


http://espn.go.com/i/blackdot.gif



Memphis (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/mem/memphis-grizzlies)
6
5
.545
3 ½
3-2
3-3
0-3
4-3
95.4
97.2
-1.8
Won 3
6-4



Phoenix (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns)
5
5
.500
4
4-1
1-4
0-1
5-4
99.3
96.9
+2.4
Lost 3
5-5



LA Lakers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/lal/los-angeles-lakers)
5
7
.417
5
4-3
1-4
1-1
3-7
99.4
103.8
-4.4
Won 1
4-6



Denver (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/den/denver-nuggets)
4
6
.400
5
3-2
1-4
2-2
3-6
104.4
105.6
-1.2
Lost 2
4-6



New Orleans (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/no/new-orleans-pelicans)
4
6
.400
5
3-2
1-4
1-0
2-4
100.7
98.8
+1.9
Won 1
4-6



Sacramento (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sac/sacramento-kings)
3
7
.300
6
3-5
0-2
1-2
2-5
94.4
98.5
-4.1
Won 1
3-7



Utah (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/utah/utah-jazz)
1
11
.083
9
1-5
0-6
0-2
1-7
88.6
100.1
-11.5
Lost 3
1-9

[mountainballer]

Tracy McGrady and Brent Barry break down the Spurs' hot start this season.

jezz. did McGrady borrow that suit from Shaq? look at those trousers. ugh.

[ace3g]

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowldc/files/2013/11/sticky-bandits.gif


I like Marco, he´s doing fine
http://img.poptower.com/pic-35890/daniel-stern.jpg?d=600

403385213130006528

2nd unit should be called Wet Bandits and/or Sticky Bandits

[Mikeanaro]

Im really happy with Marco being a Sticky Bandit as long he doesnt fall of his ass during plays but Macaulay is old and doped so he will no longer be a menace, Marco saw the chance and moved on to the NBA to try to steal the ring, plus, blondes at least are not slapping him like they did in NY

[Dex]

403385213130006528

2nd unit should be called Wet Bandits and/or Sticky Bandits

:lmao