Star tracker: Manu is No. 1

[ALVAREZ6]

Star tracker: Manu is No. 1
Web Posted: 07/29/2005 12:00 AM CDT

San Antonio Express-News


Spurs guard Manu Ginobili has been picked as the most influential Hispanic athlete in the world in a listing of 101 top athletes commissioned by ESPN Deportes La Revista in its first issue.


The list of top Latino coaches, athletes, owners and executives was determined by the staffs of ESPN Deportes La Revista and ESPN Deportes.com, with emphasis on the candidate's recent impact, influence and achievements.


“Ginobili is widely regarded as a hero in his native Argentina, as well as throughout Latin American and to Latinos in the U.S.,” said Juan Antonio Sempere, editor of the magazine. “His performance in the playoffs this year was outstanding, and his impact on international basketball will be felt for years to come.”


The magazine will be on newsstands this week.


The top 10:


1. Ginobili


2. Rinaldinho (Brazil), soccer, F.C. Barcelona


3. Albert Pujols (Dominican Republic), baseball, St. Louis Cardinals


4. Fernando Alonso (Spain), auto racing, Formula One


5. Pedro Martinez (Dominican Republic), baseball, New York Mets


6. Hernan Crespo (Argentina), soccer, A.C. Milan


7. Oscar De La Hoya (United States), boxing


8. Marco Antonio Barrera (Mexico), boxing


9. Rafael Nadal (Spain), tennis


10. Rafael Benitez (Spain), soccer, Liverpool.


-- Tim Griffin

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA072905.2D.BKNspurs.ginobili.1d7dda46.html

[danyel]

Crespo 6th? wtf!? they had to include an argentinian soccer player?

[ALVAREZ6]

Crespo 6th? wtf!? they had to include an argentinian soccer player?
Is that a bad thing?

[danyel]

no, i just dont see how he got there.

[IX_Equilibrium]

2. Rinaldinho (Brazil), soccer, F.C. Barcelona





Brazilians are not considered Hispanic

[Boo]

Albert Pujols should be 2nd.

[timvp]

http://www.allstates-flag.com/images/full-size/flags/international/dominican_republic.gif

We got robbed.

[Jelly]

I don't want to bring the house down on me, but I don't think Manu is really hispanic.

[ducks]

man I though scola would be there wtf?

[smeagol]

I don't want to bring the house down on me, but I don't think Manu is really hispanic.
He is from Argentina, is that not Hispanic enough?

[Jelly]

He is from Argentina, is that not Hispanic enough?


I've known some people from Argentina and Chile, who were, like Manu, of entirely European heritage, who did not consider themselves "hispanic". In fact, a couple of them, including an old boyfriend of mine from Chile, would get very irritated if you called them hispanic. Now, I know you and a few others on this board are Argentinian, so you may know better, but I'm telling you I've met plenty of light skinned South Americans who would argue against being labelled as "hispanic".

[duncan_21]

Not much credibility in this list, espn is involved.

[Jelly]

I just looked up a few definitions of "hispanic" and the consensus seems to be 'people from Spanish speaking countries', so I guess that makes Manu hispanic. (now, someone need to tell my friends from Chile that!)
But then, under that definition, the Brazilian players on the list could not be considered hispanic.

[manubili]

I've known some people from Argentina and Chile, who were, like Manu, of entirely European heritage, who did not consider themselves "hispanic". In fact, a couple of them, including an old boyfriend of mine from Chile, would get very irritated if you called them hispanic. Now, I know you and a few others on this board are Argentinian, so you may know better, but I'm telling you I've met plenty of light skinned South Americans who would argue against being labelled as "hispanic".


Spanish people are hispanic, and white, and europeans, or aren't they?

But, yeah, lots of argentineans don't like to be mixed with the brown skinned hispanics. As far a I see, it's some kind of snobism. It's all this crap about Buenos Aires being the Paris of Latinoamerica.

I'm proud to be a latino, hispanic, you name it, though my skin is awfully baby-ass white.

[danyel]

Spanish people are hispanic, and white, and europeans, or aren't they?

But, yeah, lots of argentineans don't like to be mixed with the brown skinned hispanics. As far a I see, it's some kind of snobism. It's all this crap about Buenos Aires being the Paris of Latinoamerica.

I'm proud to be a latino, hispanic, you name it, though my skin is awfully baby-ass white.

Couldn't agree more...

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

That list is messed up, the people that made it must decide whether they are talking about hispanic (which is the people that speaks the Spanish language, in that case the Brazilians shouldn't be included), or rather call it Latin American sportsmen list (in which the Spaniards shouldn't be included).

If they want to mix it all, they just simply should call it "Latin", but in that case sportsmen from France, Portugal and Italy should be included too.

[JsnSA]

I don't want to bring the house down on me, but I don't think Manu is really hispanic.

Hispanic is ethnic category based on cultural ties.. not a race.

There are white, black, and latin (im using latin in the racial usage) hispanics.

I would not be suprised if there are even asian hispanics.

[Rick Von Braun]

Hispanic comes from the latin hispanicus, which originally meant from the Iberian Peninsula, i.e. current Spain and Portugal. The term later on evolved to Hispania, and from there to the current Spain. The original meaning included Portugal as well.

[Jelly]

[QUOTE=JsnSA]Hispanic is ethnic category based on cultural ties.. not a race.

There are white, black, and latin (im using latin in the racial usage) hispanics.

QUOTE]


I don't believe Latin is ever considered a race.

[Jelly]

then again, according to this from Wikepedia, Manu is not hispanic....

"In Latin America, although the term "Hispano" (Hispanic) is not as often used on the popular level in public discourse as a generalized ethnic label, an Hispano is commonly regarded to be any person whose ancestry and practiced culture both stem — whether in whole or in part — from the people and culture of Spain and to the contrast of the non-Hispanic populations of Latin America. Thus in the Latin American context, when speaking of any given nation's Hispanic population, those who are implied include creoles, mestizos, and mulattos, and excludes indigenous Native Americans, the unmixed descendants of black African slaves, as well as excluding all other recent immigrants of various other races and nationalities now residing in Latin America. Also disregarded is whether or not those excluded groups now use Spanish as their first and only language — as is the case with all Blacks, most Native Americans and many recent immigrants.

This Latin-American use of the term is more so evident in addresses regarding affairs of indigenous and African descended peoples made by government and minority agencies, where the creole, mestizo, and mulatto collective majority and their culture, which is accredited as the national identity, is distinguished as Hispanic for purposes of contrast to the plight of national minorities."

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

The top 10:

2. Rinaldinho (Brazil), soccer, F.C. Barcelona


3. Albert Pujols (Dominican Republic), baseball, St. Louis Cardinals


4. Fernando Alonso (Spain), auto racing, Formula One


5. Pedro Martinez (Dominican Republic), baseball, New York Mets


6. Hernan Crespo (Argentina), soccer, A.C. Milan


7. Oscar De La Hoya (United States), boxing


8. Marco Antonio Barrera (Mexico), boxing


9. Rafael Nadal (Spain), tennis


10. Rafael Benitez (Spain), soccer, Liverpool.


-- Tim Griffin

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA072905.2D.BKNspurs.ginobili.1d7dda46.html

Maybe because I come from a country where baseball is less popular than soccer in the US, but this is the first time I hear those names in bold.

That's why I believe this kind of lists are wrong, I mean, in Argentina, the attention is on soccer, basketball, volleyball, motorsport, boxing, tennis, maybe rugby and field hockey.

In South America, the main attention is on soccer, and depending on which country, it rotates between tennis, volleyball, motorsport, boxing, basketball. The only South American country that has baseball as a major sport is Venezuela, which is also the only South American country that doesn't have soccer as their main sport.

Central America is closer to baseball, but in the main sports market of the region, Mexico, soccer is the most popular sport. From what I know, Boxing and Motorsport are popular too.

If they are going to include Spain, well, then I have no doubts that Pau Gasol is far more influential in Spain than Rafael Nadal, maybe even with Fernando Alonso, even when the Grizzlies player hasn't won anything.

The point here is that making one of this lists is a very estimative thing, because Latin America is not an homogeneous region. I don't think that Manu has such a big influence in countries that don't give a damn about basketball like Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I don't even think baseball players should be on that list. I don't think baseball even registers in 90% of Latin American countries, so how could a latin baseball player be considered more influential than some latin soccer players when soccer is the predominant sport among latinos. Baseball is only a big deal in Venezuela, some Central American countries, and the Caribean, soccer on the other hand is the most popular sport in the world. I was really surprised to see Manu on top, I would have thought Ronaldhinio was more influential. Maybe it has to do with the amount of press american sports get.

[SequSpur]

Hispanic?

[Jelly]

It looks to me like they bent over backwards trying to come up with a list that made it appear that Latin America's sporting interest are more diverse than they are? Perhaps they just didn't want to do a list that had nothing but soccer players on there even if it turned out they were the most influential. I mean, it's a list of the top ten and it's only got 3 soccer players on it. How many people have heard of that tennis guy? Also, if they were going to include Baseball players, I don't know why Alex Rodriguez isn't on there. I believe he claims Dominican citizenship.

[JsnSA]

[QUOTE=JsnSA]Hispanic is ethnic category based on cultural ties.. not a race.

There are white, black, and latin (im using latin in the racial usage) hispanics.

QUOTE]


I don't believe Latin is ever considered a race.

No its not...thats why I was saying I was using it in the racial sense.

It wasnt a good choice of words I guess because I was using the often misunderstood usage (one regarding race) to help make my point about Hispanic being a cultural term. Actually Latin (Of Latin American usage) and Hispanic pretty much meant he same thing. I had to use the incorrect version because to be honest I dont know what the correct word is for that racial category.

Latin: A member of a Latin people, especially a native or inhabitant of Latin America.

Hispanic: 1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

[Jelly]

No its not...thats why I was saying I was using it in the racial sense.

It wasnt a good choice of words I guess because I was using the often misunderstood usage (one regarding race) to help make my point about Hispanic being a cultural term. Actually Latin (Of Latin American usage) and Hispanic pretty much meant he same thing. I had to use the incorrect version because to be honest I dont know what the correct word is for that racial category.

Latin: A member of a Latin people, especially a native or inhabitant of Latin America.

Hispanic: 1. Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
2. Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

sorry. I didn't read your original sentence carefully enough. Didn't mean to split hairs.

[Sense]

Star tracker: Manu is No. 1
Web Posted: 07/29/2005 12:00 AM CDT

San Antonio Express-News


Spurs guard Manu Ginobili has been picked as the most influential Hispanic athlete in the world in a listing of 101 top athletes commissioned by ESPN Deportes La Revista in its first issue.


The list of top Latino coaches, athletes, owners and executives was determined by the staffs of ESPN Deportes La Revista and ESPN Deportes.com, with emphasis on the candidate's recent impact, influence and achievements.


“Ginobili is widely regarded as a hero in his native Argentina, as well as throughout Latin American and to Latinos in the U.S.,” said Juan Antonio Sempere, editor of the magazine. “His performance in the playoffs this year was outstanding, and his impact on international basketball will be felt for years to come.”


The magazine will be on newsstands this week.


The top 10:


1. Ginobili


2. Rinaldinho (Brazil), soccer, F.C. Barcelona


3. Albert Pujols (Dominican Republic), baseball, St. Louis Cardinals


4. Fernando Alonso (Spain), auto racing, Formula One


5. Pedro Martinez (Dominican Republic), baseball, New York Mets


6. Hernan Crespo (Argentina), soccer, A.C. Milan


7. Oscar De La Hoya (United States), boxing


8. Marco Antonio Barrera (Mexico), boxing


9. Rafael Nadal (Spain), tennis


10. Rafael Benitez (Spain), soccer, Liverpool.


-- Tim Griffin

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA072905.2D.BKNspurs.ginobili.1d7dda46.html



What about Morales?

:rolleyes

[smeagol]

The list is done by Americans for Americans, hence the mistakes.

And I don't mean in in a disrespectful way.

[Sense]

The list is done by Americans for Americans, hence the mistakes.

And I don't mean in in a disrespectful way.

I agree.

[SequSpur]

I thought Hispanic meant you were from the Southside.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I thought Hispanic meant you were from the Southside.

I thought Dwarves existed only in Lord of the Rings.

[Horry For 3!]

Pretty good.

[WalterBenitez]

Brazilians are not considered Hispanic

I think they refer to Latinos, in that case Brazilian are well included; in any case the name of Barcelona's star is Ronaldinho and not Rinadinho.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

they would be called philipinos.

...or former Peruvian President Fujimori

[MaNuMaNiAc]

It looks to me like they bent over backwards trying to come up with a list that made it appear that Latin America's sporting interest are more diverse than they are? Perhaps they just didn't want to do a list that had nothing but soccer players on there even if it turned out they were the most influential. I mean, it's a list of the top ten and it's only got 3 soccer players on it. How many people have heard of that tennis guy? Also, if they were going to include Baseball players, I don't know why Alex Rodriguez isn't on there. I believe he claims Dominican citizenship.
Latin American sporting interest IS diverse. Its just that soccer is the MOST popular. Doesn't mean its the ONLY interest.

[Jelly]

Latin American sporting interest IS diverse. Its just that soccer is the MOST popular. Doesn't mean its the ONLY interest.

I guess I was comparing it to American sporting interests which I suspect are more diverse. Do you disagree? I assume this because in addition to the golf, tennis, auto racing, boxing etc. which is popular the world over, we have three major sports, while you and the rest of the world have one. Also, whenever I watch satellite coverage of sports news shows from around the world (okay, okay, I've mainly seen it from English speaking nations...) the entire program only covers soccer. A sports news show here will cover many sports. Also, the sports section of foreign papers all seem to have a content which is over 90% soccer.

I confess, this is just an impression of mine and I am kind of lumping South America in with the rest of the world when I make this kind of judgement (that their sporting interests are less diverse).

[boutons]

If Tony is "French" rather than American, then Manu is "Argentinian/Latin" rather than Italian.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I guess I was comparing it to American sporting interests which I suspect are more diverse. Do you disagree? I assume this because in addition to the golf, tennis, auto racing, boxing etc. which is popular the world over, we have three major sports, while you and the rest of the world have one. Also, whenever I watch satellite coverage of sports news shows from around the world (okay, okay, I've mainly seen it from English speaking nations...) the entire program only covers soccer. A sports news show here will cover many sports. Also, the sports section of foreign papers all seem to have a content which is over 90% soccer.

I confess, this is just an impression of mine and I am kind of lumping South America in with the rest of the world when I make this kind of judgement (that their sporting interests are less diverse).
I see what you're saying. I don't think its that the US has more interests, rather than the fact that its able to televise and better finance its different sports. Latin America has quite a lot of sports actually. To name a few, soccer, rugby, tennis, polo, paddle, swimming, volleyball, beach volleyball, beach soccer, baseball, grass hockey, golf, etc. Granted, some of them aren't very widespread, but they're there. Also rally racing and formula 1 are popular over here.

[nkdlunch]

ESPN is retarded. That list is WAY off.

if you're talking about who's most influential in the WORLD, not the US. Then it's gotta be the most famous soccer player, which I guess is Ronaldinho right now. But yeah, Brazilians are not HISPANIC either. So in conclusion ESPN is dumb as shit.

And another thing, all latin american should be considered one peoples, even though we're all sorts of different colors. Watch Motorcycle Diaries, an you'll understand.

[manubili]

ESPN is retarded. That list is WAY off.

if you're talking about who's most influential in the WORLD, not the US. Then it's gotta be the most famous soccer player, which I guess is Ronaldinho right now. But yeah, Brazilians are not HISPANIC either. So in conclusion ESPN is dumb as shit.

And another thing, all latin american should be considered one peoples, even though we're all sorts of different colors. Watch Motorcycle Diaries, an you'll understand.


You're completely right.

[TMTTRIO]

Here's Manu's response on his forum:

??? Most influenctial?? sounds cool!!

But if in Brazil somebody hears that I´m more influential than Ronaldo, I´ll be ni trouble!

Thanks for posting...
:)

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Here's Manu's response on his forum:

:)
Question: If he's on the cover of the magazine that has written all of the front of it "MOST INFLUENTIAL HISPANIC ATHLETES"... why does he sound so surprised?

[hendrix]

I think "american" people (from USA) see as themselves as "just american" and use terms as "100% american" or "pure american" and patriotic stuff like that and dont realize they're (mostly) of european descent. So, THIS NEED they have to "categorize" people from around the world is really dumb IMHO.
Everything below Rio Grande is "hispanic".
Everything across the atlantic is "european" (russians are the same as germans, and danish are the same to portuguese, and french are the same as finnish, and so on... to them)
A little down south, they see "africa" (South Africa is the same as Morocco, and Egypt is the same as Nigeria, etc, etc...)
And then you have "asians" (Chinese are the same as Japanese, Iraqis are the same as Indians, and so on...)

GET A CLUE. The United States was made of immigrants and now they live in one soil.

I dont care if we (latin-americans) look the same or not. We speak the same language and have a lot in common.The fact is the CIA used the term "hispanic" to pinpoint a race or a culture.
So please, get a clue, drop the CIA stereotype and avoid questioning if an argentine or a chilean or uruguayan LOOKS "hispanic" or not. Ask CIA for that. We are hispanic, or latin-american.
And in that sense... USA is british-american or english-american.
"hispanic" is not a race as "white" or "mestizo" or whatever.

[Jelly]

I
The fact is the CIA used the term "hispanic" to pinpoint a race or a culture.
So please, get a clue, drop the CIA stereotype QUOTE]


[QUOTE=hendrix]I
USA is British-American or english-american.
.

I don't think Americans of Italian, Polish, German, French, Russian, Swedish, Danish, Dutch, and African descent would appreciate that.

Also, it was not the CIA but the US Census Bureau who introduced the term "hispanic" for reasons entirely benign and practical.
I understand that this is a sensitive issue to some, but I don't think anyone means offense by asking for clarity when a Sports channel or magazine produces a list of top hispanic athletes.

[hendrix]

I don't think Americans of Italian, Polish, German, French, Russian, Swedish, Danish, Dutch, and African descent would appreciate that.

The citizens of the USA of descent other than british speak english (main language)... as people from the same descent speak spanish in Argentina, etc... and speak portuguese in Brazil.
And we all are called "hispanic" or "latin-americans" because our first language is spanish. So why not everyone born in USA is anglo-american?
Is it because you like those stereotypes?


Also, it was not the CIA but the US Census Bureau who introduced the term "hispanic" for reasons entirely benign and practical.

Dumb option. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've been told the options for "race" are: Caucasian (white), Black (or African-american) and Hispanic... :rolleyes :lol
THAT's what I'm laughing at. See the game there? Hispanic is not a race.


I understand that this is a sensitive issue to some, but I don't think anyone means offense by asking for clarity when a Sports channel or magazine produces a list of top hispanic athletes.
It's not a sensitive issue. It's laughable the level of ignorance. You people like stereotyping.
And I think the magazine is accurate. Ginobili is hispanic.
Including brazilians in the list can be tricky, but portuguese is close enough to spanish and we understand eachother (most of the time)... so, fine by me.

[WalterBenitez]

I lived in Brazil, believe me... they don't think they are hispanic ( :nope )... perhaps latinos, but no hispanic ...

BTW, the list is a salad, the real name should it be sth like

"The most influencial guy coming from Argentina ... a place that some people consider hispanic (please be careful if you are reading from Brazil) and read Italy instead of Argentina if you are reading from Rome, sorroundings... or if you are an Italian descendant"

:lmao

[Jelly]

The citizens of the USA of descent other than british speak english (main language)... as people from the same descent speak spanish in Argentina, etc... and speak portuguese in Brazil.
And we all are called "hispanic" or "latin-americans" because our first language is spanish. So why not everyone born in USA is anglo-american?
Is it because you like those stereotypes?

Dumb option. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've been told the options for "race" are: Caucasian (white), Black (or African-american) and Hispanic... :rolleyes :lol
THAT's what I'm laughing at. See the game there? Hispanic is not a race.


It's not a sensitive issue. It's laughable the level of ignorance. You people like stereotyping.
And I think the magazine is accurate. Ginobili is hispanic.
Including brazilians in the list can be tricky, but portuguese is close enough to spanish and we understand eachother (most of the time)... so, fine by me.

It obviously is a sensitive issue if some people jump to conclusions that you only want to understand what "hispanic" means because you like to stereotype.

As far as ignorance, well, I'll admit that I was unsure of the true definition of "hispanic" until I looked it up and learned that in South America it usually means Spanish speaking people. (However even some Latin American sources on the web seem to dispute that definition, so if everyone isn't in agreement it's hardly fair to call those of us on the outside "ignorant")

Also, I don't think you should laugh at the ignorance of Americans in thinking of 'hispanic' as a race, since over here, 'hispanic' generally IS regarded as a race, not just by anglos but by hispanics themselves! And your language application will make no sense in the U.S as the majority of hispanic Americans probably have English as a first language (at least those who have been here for generations). In fact, there are millions of hispanic Americans who don't speak a word of Spanish. In San Antonio alone, many hispanics don't speak Spanish. By your definition these people would not be hispanic.

My point is that you are right that many Americans (myself included) were ignorant as to how people in South America determine who is hispanic, but it is laughable that you found that so laughable since you seem to be just as ignorant as to how the same determination is made in the U.S.

A few other points..

On the U.S. Census Bureau forms (and similar forms used to track demographics...which is not an evil exercise in stereotyping btw) there are about 7 or 8 or maybe more different ethnicities listed. It isn't just White, Black, Hispanic. I don't remember all the choices but it's pretty detailed and a person can choose none of the above if they want. The bottom line though, is that it's not done for some sinister reasons which you seem to allude to, but is done as a means of identifying demographics, tracking population growth, and lots of other pertinent data and ALL countries do this. Calling this U.S. stereotyping is silly. The Census Bureau just came up with a word "hispanic" for lack of a better word. I suppose they could have chosen the word "mestizo" (sp?) like they do in other countries, including your own I believe. But still, all countries go about the task of identifying ethnic groups and use sometimes conflicting words to do so. You are turning a semantic issue into an argument about American stereotyping. It just doesn't hold water.

(btw - true stereotyping is what the Mexicans did on that stamp)

[TOP-CHERRY]

Dang!

[hendrix]

Also, I don't think you should laugh at the ignorance of Americans in thinking of 'hispanic' as a race, since over here, 'hispanic' generally IS regarded as a race, not just by anglos but by hispanics themselves!
Hispanic is not a race. If so, define me the physiognomy or morphology of the "hispanic" race. See the problem here?.




And your language application will make no sense in the U.S as the majority of hispanic Americans probably have English as a first language (at least those who have been here for generations). In fact, there are millions of hispanic Americans who don't speak a word of Spanish. In San Antonio alone, many hispanics don't speak Spanish. By your definition these people would not be hispanic.

It's like saying Alexis Bledel (one of the girls in Sin City) is only "white"... when in fact she is also "hispanic" (since her first language is spanish).
Let's meet in the middle... "hispanic" is not a race, but I'd broaden the spectrum to include the non-spanish-speakers by saying, maybe it is a "culture" and includes people who lives and feel the way latin-americans live and feel.
Is that ok?
But by definition of "race"... no way.




Bureau just came up with a word "hispanic" for lack of a better word. I suppose they could have chosen the word "mestizo" (sp?) like they do in other countries, including your own I believe. But still, all countries go about the task of identifying ethnic groups and use sometimes conflicting words to do so. You are turning a semantic issue into an argument about American stereotyping. It just doesn't hold water.

In my country nobody asks "what race are you?" or "what are you?" (Maybe just for religion, but very few cares). No goverment agency has a database with "records" of certain ethnic groups to "track them".
We know who could qualify as a mestizo or who would be a chinese (ok, I mix japanese, chinese and koreans most of the time :)) but as far i know, we are all argentinians.

[Supergirl]

Why Pujols and not David Ortiz, or Manny Ramirez? He didn't win the World Series, or get voted MVP...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Hispanic is not a race. If so, define me the physiognomy or morphology of the "hispanic" race. See the problem here?.



It's like saying Alexis Bledel (one of the girls in Sin City) is only "white"... when in fact she is also "hispanic" (since her first language is spanish).
Let's meet in the middle... "hispanic" is not a race, but I'd broaden the spectrum to include the non-spanish-speakers by saying, maybe it is a "culture" and includes people who lives and feel the way latin-americans live and feel.
Is that ok?
But by definition of "race"... no way.



In my country nobody asks "what race are you?" or "what are you?" (Maybe just for religion, but very few cares). No goverment agency has a database with "records" of certain ethnic groups to "track them".
We know who could qualify as a mestizo or who would be a chinese (ok, I mix japanese, chinese and koreans most of the time :)) but as far i know, we are all argentinians.
Si estas insinuando que no existen estereotipos o racismo en Argentina, estas hablando al pedo chavon!

[manubili]

Si estas insinuando que no existen estereotipos o racismo en Argentina, estas hablando al pedo chavon!

Racismo y discriminacion hay, claro que si. Lo que no hay es definiciones raciales, tipo "los indio-argentinos" para nominar a las personas de tez oscura desciendentes de nativos, nos arreglamos con "los negros" o "cabecitas" y la verdad no sé con qué me quedo.

[timvp]

Why Pujols and not David Ortiz, or Manny Ramirez? He didn't win the World Series, or get voted MVP...

I'd be happy with any of the three.


http://www.caribbeanflags.com/images/products/DO/DOJUMFL2.JPG

[hendrix]

Si estas insinuando que no existen estereotipos o racismo en Argentina, estas hablando al pedo chavon!

Vos te metiste al pedo. Yo estoy diciendo que al menos (por ahora) los gobiernos aca no piden "identificarse" que es cada uno como en USA.
Racismo sabemos bien que existe flaco, no vivo en un termo.

[Supergirl]

I'd be happy with any of the three.

Pujols hasn't proved he can win, though, just that he'sa good slugger. It's the difference between Carlos Delfino and Manu Ginobili.

[Obi wan Ginobili]

I dunno what they are smoking but Manu is not a latino.

[WalterBenitez]

I dunno what they are smoking but Manu is not a latino.

What?? :lmao

[whottt]

Maybe because I come from a country where baseball is less popular than soccer in the US, but this is the first time I hear those names in bold.

That's why I believe this kind of lists are wrong, I mean, in Argentina, the attention is on soccer, basketball, volleyball, motorsport, boxing, tennis, maybe rugby and field hockey.

In South America, the main attention is on soccer, and depending on which country, it rotates between tennis, volleyball, motorsport, boxing, basketball. The only South American country that has baseball as a major sport is Venezuela, which is also the only South American country that doesn't have soccer as their main sport.

Central America is closer to baseball, but in the main sports market of the region, Mexico, soccer is the most popular sport. From what I know, Boxing and Motorsport are popular too.

If they are going to include Spain, well, then I have no doubts that Pau Gasol is far more influential in Spain than Rafael Nadal, maybe even with Fernando Alonso, even when the Grizzlies player hasn't won anything.

The point here is that making one of this lists is a very estimative thing, because Latin America is not an homogeneous region. I don't think that Manu has such a big influence in countries that don't give a damn about basketball like Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia.


I am pretty sure that Baseball is more popular in the Dominican Republic...where those two guys are from. Not to mention Cuba, which means it is of interest to the millions of Cuban Americans. And baseball is pretty popular in Mexico as well...not to mention Puerto Rico...I'd say it's either more popular than Soccer or a close second to those regions.


Also observe the criteria for the list:


Deportes.com, with emphasis on the candidate's recent impact, influence and achievements.

One of those two Dominicans just won the World Series , is generally considered to be one of the greatest pitchers ever, and the other one is arguably considered the best baseball player in the World right now.

And Manu has been on the World Stage a lot lately, winning...plus he's played all over the world.

I think a large part of the influence factor is their popularity in their home countries...

And just because Soccer is far and away more popular world wide doesn't mean it's far and away more popular with "hispanics" and in Latin America..I bet it's a close second once you factor in the American hispanics.

[whottt]

The list is done by Americans for Americans, hence the mistakes.

And I don't mean in in a disrespectful way.


Uh...no it's not...it's called ESPN Deportes and it employs hispanics to market for hispanics and Latin America...that's why it's fucking printed and broadcast in Spanish. :shootme

[MaNuMaNiAc]

And just because Soccer is far and away more popular world wide doesn't mean it's far and away more popular with "hispanics" and in Latin America..I bet it's a close second once you factor in the American hispanics.
Who are you refering too when you say "American Hispanics"? If you mean hispanics in the US then they are not the majority. If you mean hispanics in the Americas (including South America) they you would be dead wrong to think soccer is not the most popular sport. Baseball doesn't even come close, soccer is more popular by a mile even if you consider hispanics living in the states.

[Ginobilly]

I dunno what they are smoking but Manu is not a latino.


The real question is what are you smoking? Can we have some too?

1. Manu is from a Latin American country which automatically makes him a Latino.

2. Manu first Language is Spanish which makes him Hispanic according to our country's definition of Hispanic.


I think this whole beef about Manu being a Latino/Hispanic is coming from the Italian Americans here. Manu does not identify with Italian Americans just how Hispanics here in the US don't identify with Spaniards. Totally different people.

end of debate here.

[whottt]

Who are you refering too when you say "American Hispanics"? If you mean hispanics in the US then they are not the majority. If you mean hispanics in the Americas (including South America) they you would be dead wrong to think soccer is not the most popular sport. Baseball doesn't even come close, soccer is more popular by a mile even if you consider hispanics living in the states.

Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans and it's pretty popular with Mexicans as well(although not as popular as Soccer, but it's second)...etc. I am sure there are more. They have professional baseball leagues in Mexico and Puerto Rico and it's the national sport of Cuba....Castro almost became a major league baseball player...he actually pitched in a minor league game for a US team before he became a benevolent dictator...so it is a sport of interest to all the Cuban Americans as well.

And I can't help it you are ignorant of the Dominican Republic...but guess what? It's a Latin American country filled with hispanics...and America has a lot of Cubans and Puerto Ricans...those countries are baseball countries, not to mention that Peurto Rico is a US territory...and even if Soccer is more popular in Mexico...Baseball is pretty popular there.

I'll bet you that baseball is the most popular sport in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico...that's all those mofos do is play baseball.

You think it's impressive that 5 Argentinians play in the NBA?

This is a list of Dominicans that play or have played major league baseball:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/D-R-_born.shtml

Cubans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Cuba_born.shtml

Puerto Ricans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/P-R-_born.shtml

Mexicans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Mexico_born.shtml

Venezuelans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Venezuela_born.shtml

You know how many Argentinians and Brazilians have played MLB?

None.


I think you are guilty of being ignorant of other parts of Latin America...as evidenced by the fact that you don't know who fucking Pedro Martinez is...I gurantee you he is like a demi god in the Dominican Republic and he is considered to be one of the greatest pitchers ever...Roberto Clemente in Puerto Rico is immprtal and so Fernando Valenzuela in Mexico...not to mention Dennis Martinez in Nicaragua.

It's more popular in Latin America than you realize, maybe not in South America...but in this hemisphere of the world it is the most popular sport in many countries...when you combine that with the huge hispanic population in America and if you ever watched a MLB game, and saw how many players from those countries play in MLB...you'd know that.

Go look at the front page of ESPN right now and you will see a Cuban baseball player on the front of it.



Sammy Sosa was the Maradonna of the Dominican Republic...and he fell from gracee similarly.

This past world series...

4 of the best players were from the Dominican..

Manny Ramirez, Pedro, David Ortiz and Albert Pujols.




Don't tell me it's not popular in those countries and Puerto Rico because we have 6 million of those motherfuckers playing on MLB teams.

[whottt]

Hendrix...you're a fucking idiot.

Patriotic?

Excuse me asshole but I didn't see any of our players wrapping themselves in the fucking American flag after we won the title...Get off your fucking high horse IGNORANT.

You know why we call people hispanic here? Because fucking Cubans and Puerto Ricans don't like being called Mexican...it's a PC device designed to appease overly sensitive minority groups. You see a spanish speaking person...you call them hispanic, it's easier that way and you don't step on toes.


Is the fucking the CIA the reason we have Miss Hispanic USA and Miss Black USA as well? The Latino Grammy Awards? Black History Month?

Is the CIA making TimVP post the Dominican flag?


The minority groups themselves segregate those things nowdays and it's got nothing to do with any type of race or cultural bias except on the part of they themselves.

I personally don't like it either...my family came from Germany...big fucking deal...if Germany was great we'd still be there. They thought Germany sucked and so they didn't try to bring it with them...which makes them better than the people who hate this country yet come here just for money...

Those people are called whores in America.

Me? I could give 2 fucks if Dirk Nowiski has a good game even though I am of German descent...it does not posess me to go wrap myself in the German flag even though it is a country of my ancestry.

Similarly...I think if you asked most Americans if they liked Poland or English speaking Canada better right now...they'd say Poland....

So your accusations that we all have some kind of bias towards English speaking people is equally funny...What most of us don't like is people that come from here shitholes and bring aspects of their failing fucking culture with them...It's just hard to understand, and...if you come here you should try to buy into what it's all about...and not try and bring the place you are running away from with you.

I resent the hell out of you calling me and my country ignorant you dumb 3rd world fuck. Go stick your fucking Argentinian flag up your ass. You hypocritical bitch.

Learn to change your fucking leader without a military coup every 10 years and maybe you won't hold so much resentment towards my country.

[Jelly]

Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans and it's pretty popular with Mexicans as well(although not as popular as Soccer, but it's second)...etc. I am sure there are more. They have professional baseball leagues in Mexico and Puerto Rico and it's the national sport of Cuba....Castro almost became a major league baseball player...he actually pitched in a minor league game for a US team before he became a benevolent dictator...so it is a sport of interest to all the Cuban Americans as well.

And I can't help it you are ignorant of the Dominican Republic...but guess what? It's a Latin American country filled with hispanics...and America has a lot of Cubans and Puerto Ricans...those countries are baseball countries, not to mention that Peurto Rico is a US territory...and even if Soccer is more popular in Mexico...Baseball is pretty popular there.

I'll bet you that baseball is the most popular sport in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico...that's all those mofos do is play baseball.

You think it's impressive that 5 Argentinians play in the NBA?

This is a list of Dominicans that play or have played major league baseball:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/D-R-_born.shtml

Cubans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Cuba_born.shtml

Puerto Ricans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/P-R-_born.shtml

Mexicans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Mexico_born.shtml

Venezuelans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Venezuela_born.shtml

You know how many Argentinians and Brazilians have played MLB?

None.


I think you are guilty of being ignorant of other parts of Latin America...as evidenced by the fact that you don't know who fucking Pedro Martinez is...I gurantee you he is like a demi god in the Dominican Republic and he is considered to be one of the greatest pitchers ever...Roberto Clemente in Puerto Rico is immprtal and so Fernando Valenzuela in Mexico...not to mention Dennis Martinez in Nicaragua.

It's more popular in Latin America than you realize, maybe not in South America...but in this hemisphere of the world it is the most popular sport in many countries...when you combine that with the huge hispanic population in America and if you ever watched a MLB game, and saw how many players from those countries play in MLB...you'd know that.

Go look at the front page of ESPN right now and you will see a Cuban baseball player on the front of it.



Sammy Sosa was the Maradonna of the Dominican Republic...and he fell from gracee similarly.

This past world series...

4 of the best players were from the Dominican..

Manny Ramirez, Pedro, David Ortiz and Albert Pujols.




Don't tell me it's not popular in those countries and Puerto Rico because we have 6 million of those motherfuckers playing on MLB teams.

Castro is a benevolent dictator??

[nkdlunch]

Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans and it's pretty popular with Mexicans as well(although not as popular as Soccer, but it's second)...etc.

Cuba,venezuela,Puerto Rico,Dominican and Mexico. that about sums it up for baseball countries in latin america. Even w/that, baseball doesn't even come close to futbol.



And I can't help it you are ignorant of the Dominican Republic...but guess what? It's a Latin American country filled with hispanics...and America has a lot of Cubans and Puerto Ricans...those countries are baseball countries, not to mention that Peurto Rico is a US territory...and even if Soccer is more popular in Mexico...Baseball is pretty popular there.

again, it doesn't even come close. 90% of latin america can't even tell you 1 name of a baseball player, they don't even know who Babe Ruth is. They know the candy though :lol

I like every sport, but you don't understand about futbol. It's not considered a sport in latin america, it's life.

That's why we laugh at that list. at least 8 of those 10 names should be futbol players.

[FoxMulder]

Wow man tha thread is gettin' ethnic!!!

Ok. Latino is anyone born in where language has Latin Roots in their language. That includes many European such as Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese even Romanians. This because their language was rooted by Latin (the Roman Ancient Language)

The Anglo Saxon are those who has Anglo or Saxon blood... those includes Celtic and Normand descents as English, German, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Finese... and so and so...

But there are a fuzzy view about latino in NorthAmerica...

They think anyone born in South America is a latino. Manu is 100% latino Italian descent and also Al Pacino and Robert De Niro...

Here we´ve got a lot of Anglo-Saxon descents too and they speak spanish as their primary language. Are they also latinos? Not by blood indeed.

And a lot of southamericans are mixture like me, my grandmother was native and my grandfather was spanish descent 100% and other grand-grand-father was german

So I´m an Latino Anglo Saxon...!?

:D

Anyways its a stupidity argue with anyone about races....

Talking about who is better Black, Yellow, Latino and AngloSaxon or Caucasian is always a little bit freaking racist...

I don´t care if Manu was Chinese, Jew, Arabian, Caucasian or from Mars
He´s a great player no matter where he came from or what blood he got...

Some people bother me because it seems like don´t like him or feel bothered by the fact his not 100% white (There´s a lot of people white and not always caucasian as French, Italian, Spanish, Polish and even some people from Arab countries)

Manu will become a great headache to the racist people :)

[whottt]

That's why we laugh at that list. at least 8 of those 10 names should be futbol players.


This is what they said the criteria was:


Deportes.com, with emphasis on the candidate's recent impact, influence and achievements.


I think influence has a lot to do with how they are viewed in their own countries as much as Latin America as a whole. Plus winning and how great they are viewed against their peers...

Pujols and Martinez are among the best baseball players ever...not just from Latin America...ever. They also played in the World Series last year.

Manu is like a god in his home country right now, plus he's won on two major world stages recently...and he's popular in America.


Look, I am not going to defend ESPN...because they do write stupid articles...but I take tremendous umbrage at the comments that this list is bad because it is aimed at Americans and because of racist American ignorance.


If it was aimed at Americans it wouldn't have a single soccer player on it...

And ESPN deportes programming is marketed towards Latin America...not most of the USA. It's in Spanish...the journalists and broadcasters many are from Latin American Countries...not America. Most people born in the USA can speak English too...so even the people in America they are targeting are probably mostly from other countries.

If it's a shitty list fine...but I don't like the comments that it's because America is racist and ignorant. I think those comments are ignorant.

[FoxMulder]

If it was aimed at Americans it wouldn't have a single soccer player on it...

And ESPN deportes programming is marketed towards Latin America...not most of the USA. It's in Spanish...the journalists and broadcasters many are from Latin American Countries...not America.

If it's a shitty list fine...but I don't like the comments that it's because America is racist and ignorant. I think those comments are ignorant.

Note than Latin America is a part of America too...
And we - SouthAmericans - are Americans too...

North America is not AMERICA is just a part of it...

Here in LATIN America nobody ask who is the best black soccer player or the best white volleyball player in the world...
At least not at mass media level...

Sometimes I don´t know who I´m watching in a soccer player
I don´t know if they are Peruans, Argentinians, Chileans, Brazilians... because...

Nobody cares!!!

If NORTH American journalist make differences is because they have this toughts in their minds...

Most Americans aren´t ignorants and racist but many are...

They still think than Rio is an Argentinian City or Buenos Aires is an state from Brazil. I´ve seen most movies where brazilians speaks in... SPANISH!?

And C-Mon... even de NBA is racist in his own way... Manu is a threath for black players because he does many things that many people tought only black people could do it.

It wasn´t Isiah Thomas who said than Larry Bird was overrated...
Or wasn´t Sheed who said "the kid is nothing in special" about Manu...

Is my humble opinion...

[hendrix]

Hendrix...you're a fucking idiot. Patriotic?
Thanks dude. Coming from you is already a big compliment.


Excuse me asshole but I didn't see any of our players wrapping themselves in the fucking American flag after we won the title...Get off your fucking high horse IGNORANT.
I dont know WTF you're talking about, but since you are at it... the discussion is not about patriotism, but if you think everything your goverment does is correct, then you're the fucking idiot.



You know why we call people hispanic here? Because fucking Cubans and Puerto Ricans don't like being called Mexican...it's a PC device designed to appease overly sensitive minority groups. You see a spanish speaking person...you call them hispanic, it's easier that way and you don't step on toes.

No asshole. Read again. Twice please.
I dont care what everyone calls one another, I'm questioning the use of "hispanic" as race, and the more stupid (and stereotypical) exclusion of some "white" latin-americans from the "hispanic" culture.
Shit like "Ginobili is not hispanic" or "[INSERT NAME HERE] is not hispanic" because they dont LOOK like the STEREOTYPICAL "hispanic" or "latino" is dumb (just to not offend anyone). You... you're a fascist mofo.


Is the fucking the CIA the reason we have Miss Hispanic USA and Miss Black USA as well? The Latino Grammy Awards? Black History Month?
Again, those awards can easily be seen as a way to homage a culture, in this case, the "hispanic world".
And "black history month"?? Wow, dude... don't you know there was a lot of opression before you've even been born?? I'm pretty sure you've heard of the KKK.
(By the way, I dont know what the "black history month" is all about, but i took a guess)


I resent the hell out of you calling me and my country ignorant you dumb 3rd world fuck. Go stick your fucking Argentinian flag up your ass. You hypocritical bitch.
Learn to change your fucking leader without a military coup every 10 years and maybe you won't hold so much resentment towards my country.
Is that all you got?? You sure know shit about history.

[whottt]

Note than Latin America is a part of America too...
And we - SouthAmericans - are Americans too...

North America is not AMERICA is just a part of it...

Whatever...the rest of the world refers to USA as America also...we didn't force them into doing it. Call us whatever you want.


Here in LATIN America nobody ask who is the best black soccer player or the best white volleyball player in the world...



At least not at mass media level...

Um...Latinos and Blacks make that distinction as much as anyone here...

Did you read what I posted earlier?

We have Miss Black America, Miss Hispanic America...Latino Grammy awards...

Who do you think is organizing those events and participating in them? The Anglos?



Sometimes I don´t know who I´m watching in a soccer player
I don´t know if they are Peruans, Argentinians, Chileans, Brazilians... because...

Well it's kind hard not to notice what country Manu is from when he wraps himself in the Argentinian Flag to celebrate an NBA title...

So maybe you should talk to him about his "racism" and ignorance.

Sometimes I am watching a baseball game and I don't know who is American, Dominican etc...nor do I care, but they do....that's why I fucking know.


Nobody cares!!!

Motherfuck it takes balls to be that big of a hypocrite.

Every mother fucking Argentinian on this board is here and watching the Spurs because Manu is fucking Argentinian...

How can you just tell a bold faced lie like that?

Are you guys or are you not drawing distinctions between the anglo and hispanic worlds as we speak?


If NORTH American journalist make differences is because they have this toughts in their minds...

Yeah and South American journalists are professional...

They only ask Manu if Tony is the antichrist...whoooo talk about sophistication.


Most Americans aren´t ignorants and racist but many are...

And most Latin Americans aren't corrupt kidnapping thieves who are so culturally corrupt that they can't elect a functioning government to save their lives....but many are.


They still think than Rio is an Argentinian City or Buenos Aires is an state from Brazil.


And some South Americans don't even know who fucking Pedro Martinez and Albert Pujols are.




And C-Mon... even de NBA is racist in his own way... Manu is a threath for black players because he does many things that many people tought only black people could do it.

Do you even have blacks in Argentina?





It wasn´t Isiah Thomas who said than Larry Bird was overrated...
Or wasn´t Sheed who said "the kid is nothing in special" about Manu...

Is my humble opinion...


It's an ignorant opinion that is incredibly shortsighted and hypocritical.

[smeagol]

Uh...no it's not...it's called ESPN Deportes and it employs hispanics to market for hispanics and Latin America...that's why it's fucking printed and broadcast in Spanish. :shootme
I still don't agree with the list, but that is just me.

I feel responsible for releasing whottt's rage.

[manubili]

I still don't agree with the list, but that is just me.

I feel responsible for releasing whottt's rage.

Latin ESPN always tries to include hispanic people from everywhere, from argentina to the hispanic comunity in the US. And that's a nice dream, far away from reality. We are not a whole group, nor a race, and if you include brazilians and english-speakers US hispanics, we don't even share the same language.

That's why that list is nonsense.

[whottt]

No asshole. Read again. Twice please.
I dont care what everyone calls one another, I'm questioning the use of "hispanic" as race, and the more stupid (and stereotypical) exclusion of some "white" latin-americans from the "hispanic" culture.

Hispanic isn't considered a race here...it's considered an ethnicity/cultural lable. It is one.




Shit like "Ginobili is not hispanic" or "[INSERT NAME HERE] is not hispanic" because they dont LOOK like the STEREOTYPICAL "hispanic" or "latino" is dumb (just to not offend anyone). You... you're a fascist mofo..

Why? Because one person said they didn't think Manu was Hispanic, a person who admitted they really didn't know what it meant? I think the person tripped over the fact that Manu is of Italian Ancestry...it's not exactly a crime and that person didn't claim to be certain.

Exactly how is that proof of anything?

I mean does Manu or does Manu not sit at the top of the fucking "hispanic" list? Weren't ya'll claiming America made the list and American ignorance of hispanic culture is why it sucks?

Do you not see the contradiction?






Again, those awards can easily be seen as a way to homage a culture, in this case, the "hispanic world".
And "black history month"??

Yeah? And they are also ethnic and racial tags that those groups apply to themselves...not because the CIA is scheming.


Wow, dude... don't you know there was a lot of opression before you've even been born?? I'm pretty sure you've heard of the KKK.

Yeah...the blacks got it bad here...that's why they are all trying to get to Argentina.

Oooh you know about the KKK...how horrible we Americans are...why can't we take a page from the peaceful Hispanic book...

Bitch...you motherfuckers in South America are no better than we are, and I don't care what your race or ethnicity is. And if there's one country that really can't talk shit it's Argentina...you SOB's are 70% + European interlopers just like Americans, you were a European colony just like America. So don't even go there.

[FoxMulder]

Whott or whatever you called... I don´t know why you are so angry... but if makes you feel ok
go against anything called argentinian or latino or whatever you want to called us
go ahead...

If that makes you feel a patriot...

[CaptainLate]

I don't want to bring the house down on me, but I don't think Manu is really hispanic.

Some Latin American countries were colonies of European countries. Spain and Portugal = European heritage = white.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans and it's pretty popular with Mexicans as well(although not as popular as Soccer, but it's second)...etc. I am sure there are more. They have professional baseball leagues in Mexico and Puerto Rico and it's the national sport of Cuba....Castro almost became a major league baseball player...he actually pitched in a minor league game for a US team before he became a benevolent dictator...so it is a sport of interest to all the Cuban Americans as well.

And I can't help it you are ignorant of the Dominican Republic...but guess what? It's a Latin American country filled with hispanics...and America has a lot of Cubans and Puerto Ricans...those countries are baseball countries, not to mention that Peurto Rico is a US territory...and even if Soccer is more popular in Mexico...Baseball is pretty popular there.

I'll bet you that baseball is the most popular sport in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico...that's all those mofos do is play baseball.

You think it's impressive that 5 Argentinians play in the NBA?

This is a list of Dominicans that play or have played major league baseball:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/D-R-_born.shtml

Cubans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Cuba_born.shtml

Puerto Ricans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/P-R-_born.shtml

Mexicans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Mexico_born.shtml

Venezuelans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Venezuela_born.shtml

You know how many Argentinians and Brazilians have played MLB?

None.


I think you are guilty of being ignorant of other parts of Latin America...as evidenced by the fact that you don't know who fucking Pedro Martinez is...I gurantee you he is like a demi god in the Dominican Republic and he is considered to be one of the greatest pitchers ever...Roberto Clemente in Puerto Rico is immprtal and so Fernando Valenzuela in Mexico...not to mention Dennis Martinez in Nicaragua.

It's more popular in Latin America than you realize, maybe not in South America...but in this hemisphere of the world it is the most popular sport in many countries...when you combine that with the huge hispanic population in America and if you ever watched a MLB game, and saw how many players from those countries play in MLB...you'd know that.

Go look at the front page of ESPN right now and you will see a Cuban baseball player on the front of it.



Sammy Sosa was the Maradonna of the Dominican Republic...and he fell from gracee similarly.

This past world series...

4 of the best players were from the Dominican..

Manny Ramirez, Pedro, David Ortiz and Albert Pujols.




Don't tell me it's not popular in those countries and Puerto Rico because we have 6 million of those motherfuckers playing on MLB teams. Who the fuck do you think you are!??? Why are you calling me ignorant?? I never said those countries don't have baseball as the most popular sport, BUT THOSE ARE NOT THE MAJORITY OF HISPANICS!!!! SECOND I PROBABLY KNOW MORE ABOUT THE HISPANIC CULTURE THAN YOU, SO STFU ABOUT "I CAN'T HELP IT IF YOU'RE IGNORANT"

HOW MANY COUNTRIES HAVE YOU LIVED IN?? ANSWER ME THAT! 'CAUSE i'VE LIVED IN 6 DIFFERENT LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES! I KNOW HISPANIC CULTURE, I AM FUCKING HISPANIC! ESPN HAS CUBAN BASEBALL PLAYERS BECAUSE ITS AN AMERICAN SPORTS CHANNEL, AND GOD KNOWS AMERICANS CARE ABOUT THEIR 4 MAIN SPORTS AND THAT'S IT!!

I can't help it if you don't want to face reality, but for most Latin Americans and "hispanics" SOCCER IS THE MAIN SPORT! DEAL WITH IT!!

OH, and by the way, I WASN"T THE ONE WHO SAID I DIDN"T KNOW WHO PEDRO RODRIGUEZ IS, JACKASS!!!

[WalterBenitez]

No matter what you say MANU is LATINO!!!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Motherfuck it takes balls to be that big of a hypocrite.

Every mother fucking Argentinian on this board is here and watching the Spurs because Manu is fucking Argentinian...

How can you just tell a bold faced lie like that?

Are you guys or are you not drawing distinctions between the anglo and hispanic worlds as we speak?

I'm getting sick and tired of your attitude Whottt, WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TOO DECLARE THAT EVERY ARGENTINIAN IS ONLE HERE BECAUSE OF MANU!??? I'VE BEEN A SPURS FAN SINCE 1999 YOU IGNORANT SON OF BITCH!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Bitch...you motherfuckers in South America are no better than we are, and I don't care what your race or ethnicity is. And if there's one country that really can't talk shit it's Argentina...you SOB's are 70% + European interlopers just like Americans, you were a European colony just like America. So don't even go there.

Please Whottt, enlighten us as to how much you know about Argentinian history?? 'cause I'm almost sure YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT! I don't agree with Hendrix personally, BUT YOU'RE JUST BLURTING OUT SHIT BECAUSE YOU FELT INSULTED BY HIM, AND IN DOING SO YOU'RE INSULTING ME ASWELL!

Now, lets all take a fucking chill pill!

[Jelly]

I don't want to bring the house down on me, but I don't think Manu is really hispanic.

Well, I'm glad this conversation didn't get to out of control...yikes.

so fellas...eh....how 'bout those Cowboys :angel

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Well, I'm glad this conversation didn't get to out of control...yikes.

so fellas...eh....how 'bout those Cowboys :angel
It wasn't your fault Jelly, you asked a legitimate question. Its Hendrix and Whottt who need to start thinking before they use their fingers.

[hendrix]

Why? Because one person said they didn't think Manu was Hispanic, a person who admitted they really didn't know what it meant? I think the person tripped over the fact that Manu is of Italian Ancestry...it's not exactly a crime and that person didn't claim to be certain.
Exactly how is that proof of anything?
I mean does Manu or does Manu not sit at the top of the fucking "hispanic" list? Weren't ya'll claiming America made the list and American ignorance of hispanic culture is why it sucks?
Do you not see the contradiction?
As I said before, we dont use labels like "hispanic" but use "latin-americans" or "hispano-americans"... Thats close, but I think Manu didnt know the meaning, because we're not used to that label.
Manu is of Italian ancestry like... I don't know... 50% of argentinians (having an italian lastname or NOT).
And I already said the list seemed fine by me.

If a list was made with the top 10 "latin-american" sportsmen... BELIEVE ME, there would be no trouble for Manu or anyone understanding the concept.
The thing is you like YOUR "hispanic" definition so much that given the case of any "white" spanish descendant, you'll say "He's probably got some german roots, he's not hispanic.'. Come on, say it.



Bitch...you motherfuckers in South America are no better than we are, and I don't care what your race or ethnicity is. And if there's one country that really can't talk shit it's Argentina...you SOB's are 70% + European interlopers just like Americans, you were a European colony just like America. So don't even go there.

See the stupidity there... You think a european descendant is not hispanic.
Do you think Mexico, Dominican Republic or Panama got speaking spanish all by themselves???
Whats your definition of hispanic then?? "A not completely white dude", right?
I know thats the thing, so save the words.

[hendrix]

Well, I'm glad this conversation didn't get to out of control...yikes.
so fellas...eh....how 'bout those Cowboys :angel

Cowboys suck :lol
Anyways... I just dont get it... really. Excuse me if I get mad so easily, but what your definition of hispanic would be?? really?
A person who has an spanish lastname?
A mestizo who is completely free of non-spanish genes?
I dont get it.... I get mad because all leads me to think that you just like the idea of the mestizo. "Hmmm... he's white... so he's either 100% american or european".

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Cowboys suck :lol
Anyways... I just dont get it... really. Excuse me if I get mad so easily, but what your definition of hispanic would be?? really?
A person who has an spanish lastname?
A mestizo who is completely free of non-spanish genes?
I dont get it.... I get mad because all leads me to think that you just like the idea of the mestizo. "Hmmm... he's white... so he's either 100% american or european".
She said she wasn't sure. No need to get mad

[smeagol]

I was born in Argentina. My dad was born in what is now Croacia. My mom's family has been in Argentina for four generations but originally came Portugal. I speak Spanish as my first language, English as my second language. My Portuguese is conversational.

I think I'm white, but when I'm asked, I'm not sure if I should say Hispanic or Caucasian.

Can somebody help me? What am I?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I was born in Argentina. My dad was born in what is now Croacia. My mom's family has been in Argentina for four generations but originally came Portugal. I speak Spanish as my first language, English as my second language. My Portuguese is conversational.

I think I'm white, but when I'm asked, I'm not sure if I should say Hispanic or Caucasian.

Can somebody help me? What am I?
You're an alien, you just don't know it yet! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_28_6.gif

[Jelly]

Cowboys suck :lol
Anyways... I just dont get it... really. Excuse me if I get mad so easily, but what your definition of hispanic would be?? really?
A person who has an spanish lastname?
A mestizo who is completely free of non-spanish genes?
I dont get it.... I get mad because all leads me to think that you just like the idea of the mestizo. "Hmmm... he's white... so he's either 100% american or european".

I've already said as much as I can on this issue. There is no point in discussing this further, since you are only lecturing. You have used the word "stereotyping" in an accusatory way about 50 times in this thread, yet you don't seem to realize that it is through your own stereotyping of Americans that you've chosen to assume the very worst in terms of how and why we use the word "hispanic".

I've at least made the effort to better understand what "hispanic" means to South Americans. You have made no effort to understand why people in the U.S might think of 'hispanic' in terms of race or ethnicity. This is because you only want to see it thru your own prejudices and in this case, you have decided that the American way is based on stereotyping and racism. That is unfortunate and it is amazing that you cannot see the irony.

It's too bad that people can't just ask honest questions about stuff like this without the shit hitting the fan.

[whottt]

Who the fuck do you think you are!??? Why are you calling me ignorant?? I never said those countries don't have baseball as the most popular sport, BUT THOSE ARE NOT THE MAJORITY OF HISPANICS!!!! SECOND I PROBABLY KNOW MORE ABOUT THE HISPANIC CULTURE THAN YOU, SO STFU ABOUT "I CAN'T HELP IT IF YOU'RE IGNORANT"

Who the hell said the list was based on their popularity with the majority of hispanics?


HOW MANY COUNTRIES HAVE YOU LIVED IN?? ANSWER ME THAT! 'CAUSE i'VE LIVED IN 6 DIFFERENT LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES! I KNOW HISPANIC CULTURE, I AM FUCKING HISPANIC! ESPN HAS CUBAN BASEBALL PLAYERS BECAUSE ITS AN AMERICAN SPORTS CHANNEL, AND GOD KNOWS AMERICANS CARE ABOUT THEIR 4 MAIN SPORTS AND THAT'S IT!!

Um...I don't think there is a single hispanic culture. In fact I know there isn't. It's just a bunch of people that speak fucking Spanish...and it's the same as racial bond.

And furthermore...ooh we care about our 4 major sports, how evil we are...meanwhile ya'll care about Soccer and little else.




I can't help it if you don't want to face reality, but for most Latin Americans and "hispanics" SOCCER IS THE MAIN SPORT! DEAL WITH IT!!

Soccer sucks, deal with it.

It's not like it's some alien game that we've never seen...we get it crammed down our throats endlessly...most of us think it sucks.

If we ever have success at it...we'll probably warm to it just like we did cycling with Lance and like you guys did with basketball and Manu.

But since our best athletes don't play Soccer...don't hold you breath waiting for that to happen.




OH, and by the way, I WASN"T THE ONE WHO SAID I DIDN"T KNOW WHO PEDRO RODRIGUEZ IS, JACKASS!!!

You mean Pedro Martinez.

And does it mattter? You responded and you have Manu nick #1 billion...

And, besides whoever I was responding to..does it matter? You're all hispanic and Latin American...right? Sophisticated, Worldly and Cosmopolitan...while I am just dumb ignorant American(Anglo of course). That's what important to you, inspite of the flags you waIve.

[whottt]

Whott or whatever you called... I don´t know why you are so angry... but if makes you feel ok
go against anything called argentinian or latino or whatever you want to called us
go ahead...

If that makes you feel a patriot...


Let's see why am I angry...was it...

Hendrix calling my country racist, ignorant, dumb, corrupt...about 50 times because someone didn't understand what hispanic meant....

Or was it you saying "most Americans aren't racist, but many are".

That's bigotry right there...it's ignorance of this country, and on top of that...it's a bigoted statement by someone who doesn't realize they are bigoted.

[whottt]

I'm getting sick and tired of your attitude Whottt, WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TOO DECLARE THAT EVERY ARGENTINIAN IS ONLE HERE BECAUSE OF MANU!??? I'VE BEEN A SPURS FAN SINCE 1999 YOU IGNORANT SON OF BITCH!

ALL you Argentinians have such tempers. Please don't yell.

[smeagol]

Some Latin American countries were colonies of European countries. Spain and Portugal = European heritage = white.
Actually all LatAm countries were once either part of or a European Colony.

[smeagol]

ALL you Argentinians have such tempers. Please don't yell.
There you go again putting us Argies all in the same bag :spin

[smeagol]

Let's see why am I angry...was it...

Hendrix calling my country racist, ignorant, dumb, corrupt...about 50 times because someone didn't understand what hispanic meant....

Or was it you saying "most Americans aren't racist, but many are".

That's bigotry right there...it's ignorance of this country, and on top of that...it's a bigoted statement by someone who doesn't realize they are bigoted.
No , it was me with the following comment:


The list is done by Americans for Americans, hence the mistakes.

And I don't mean in in a disrespectful way.

That just got you going man, and you went whottt on us.

Whenever you are ready, we can discuss some more rugby, mofo. I will kick you ass one more time :spin

[whottt]

Please Whottt, enlighten us as to how much you know about Argentinian history?? 'cause I'm almost sure YOU DON'T KNOW JACK SHIT! I don't agree with Hendrix personally, BUT YOU'RE JUST BLURTING OUT SHIT BECAUSE YOU FELT INSULTED BY HIM, AND IN DOING SO YOU'RE INSULTING ME ASWELL!

Now, lets all take a fucking chill pill!


Um...my knowledge of Argentina history, it's rises and it's declines, goes something like this...

You guys have a military.

You love Soccer.

I think that sums up the totality of your problems right there. I am not kidding on the Soccer thing...every country that claims Soccer as it's favorite sport suffers from political instability.

Why is America the most powerful nation on Earth?

Because we hate fucking Soccer more than any other nation on Earth.


But I disgress...

Your basic contributions to the world are:
A female character in an opera and bad movie.
Manu(the best one)
Maradonna(a weak contribution at best)
That boxer that put up a great fight(for a white guy) against Muhammad Ali in the 70's...
And that reporter with the great ass that interviewed Manu his rookie year(the second best one).

I think that about sums it up...

Oh.....IMO...
you guys inherited the worst aspects of the political shcitzophrenia of Spain and Italy and you guys are the last people on earth that need to be critiquing governments of other countries....

Oh and while ya'll may be able to claim pride in your lack of racial divisions compared to dumb ass ole America(near as I can tell because you are just about all white)...Your political disputes make the Palestinian Israeli conflict look like a beach party. There are all kind of divides with humans...if they aren't racial they'll be something else...

[smeagol]

Soccer sucks, deal with it.
Says who, a guy who enjoys Pro-wrestling ?

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[smeagol]

Manu is not the most influencial latino sports dude. Outside Argentina and SA, not many latinos care about him.

[smeagol]

Your basic contributions to the world are:
A female character in an opera and bad movie.
Manu(the best one)
Maradonna(a weak contribution at best)
That boxer that put up a great fight(for a white guy) against Muhammad Ali in the 70's...
And that reporter with the great ass that interviewed Manu his rookie year(the second best one).

I think that about sums it up...
Not really.

We came up with the system to individualize people through their finger prints. Hell of a contribution right there. If not, how would the INS identifies us Hispanics and send us back to the shitholes we came from? :lol

[smeagol]

you guys inherited the worst aspects of the political shcitzophrenia of Spain and Italy and you guys are the last people on earth that need to be critiquing governments of other countries....
:depressed

Sad but true

[ManuLoco]

Whatever...the rest of the world refers to USA as America also...we didn't force them into doing it. Call us whatever you want.

That's not true, I've only heard the rest of the world referring to the United States as americans in your movies :rolleyes . Here, you're the United States or yankeeland, and you're not Americans or gringos, you're yankees, doesn't matter if you're from the south or from the north of your country.

[smeagol]

Here, you're the United States or yankeeland, and you're not Americans or gringos, you're yankees, doesn't matter if you're from the south or from the north of your country.
Not true, the word "gringos" is very popular in Mexico and Central America.

[whottt]

As I said before, we dont use labels like "hispanic" but use "latin-americans" or "hispano-americans"... Thats close, but I think Manu didnt know the meaning, because we're not used to that label.If a list was made with the top 10 "latin-american" sportsmen... BELIEVE ME, there would be no trouble for Manu or anyone understanding the concept.

It's a fucking Spanish word...if you guys don't get it how the hell can you criticize an American for not getting it?

Look you are never going to find a clear definition of race...you know why?

Because there really isn't one...it's a European concept that classifies intelligence based on skin color...the lighter you are, the smarter you are.

That's what it is...that's why it's a stumbling block. There is limited differences between folk of different skin tone at the genetic level...indeed the differences are due mostly to geography and environment.

This should be obvious...I mean why doesn't Africa have the best basketball players in the World? They have the most blacks.

So is it really that hard to understand why it fucks people up? Because it's a stupid fucking concept.

And on our applications here...you may see it referred to as race, or ethnicity...it's constantaly changing definition based on political correctness...not a basis in science.


Hispanic is a relatively new word to the popular American lexicon...and we started using it because it was better than calling everyone that speaks Spanish, Mexican. Which is what we did previously.




The thing is you like YOUR "hispanic" definition so much that given the case of any "white" spanish descendant, you'll say "He's probably got some german roots, he's not hispanic.'. Come on, say it.

I think most people here define Hispanic as someone who speaks fucking Spanish or originated in a country where Spanish was spoken...just because one person doesn't get it doesn't mean everyone doesn't.




See the stupidity there... You think a european descendant is not hispanic.

That's not fucking true. One person said it. Get over it...Manu didn't get it either and he knows what hispania means.


Do you think Mexico, Dominican Republic or Panama got speaking spanish all by themselves???

No...they spoke it after they got conquered by Spain.

But there are differences between the culture whether you guys speak fucking Spanish or not...

You guys are primarily European...Mexicans are primarily the descendants of the Aztecs, native Americans...the fact that ya'll speak the same language is a stupid thing to bond over if you ask me...about as stupid as doing it over racial reasons.



Whats your definition of hispanic then?? "A not completely white dude", right?
I know thats the thing, so save the words.

Someone who speaks Spanish as their major language...or who had parents that did.

[whottt]

That's not true, I've only heard the rest of the world referring to the United States as americans in your movies :rolleyes . Here, you're the United States or yankeeland, and you're not Americans or gringos, you're yankees, doesn't matter if you're from the south or from the north of your country.


bUt wait...I thought you high minded hispanics didn't look at things in racial terms and are ignorant of the concept...

Next you're going to tell me what a Tanos is right?


You know why they call us Americans?

Becuase guess what fucking what...we are the only country that has America in it's fucking name.....that would be my reasoning behind it...and it's a lot easier than calling us United States of Americans...

[Jelly]

That's not true, I've only heard the rest of the world referring to the United States as americans in your movies :rolleyes . Here, you're the United States or yankeeland, and you're not Americans or gringos, you're yankees, doesn't matter if you're from the south or from the north of your country.

nope. sorry, you're giving false information here. I've spent lots of times in Europe and have a ton of relatives in Britain. They - especially the British- almost always refer to "America" instead of the other terms. They always say things like "We are not America's poodle" and "America wants to be police of the world". Take out "America" in those sentences and plug in "U.S." See? Doesn't work. In the middle east, they ONLY use the term "America".... I mean, seriously, when is the last time you heard "death to the United States!" or "the U.S.A. is the Great Satan" ? No, what you hear is..."Death to AMERICA"..."AMERICA is Great Satan".

I also lived in Panama back in the 80's...they too say "America" and "Americans" .... as in "America f*cked this canal up!" and "I can't wait til you m*thr f*ck*ng Americans get the f*ck out of here!" and "America need to mind their own f*cking business".

See? So don't tell me the rest of the world doesn't say "America".

[smeagol]

nope. sorry, you're giving false information here. I've spent lots of times in Europe and have a ton of relatives in Britain. They - especially the British- almost always refer to "America" instead of the other terms. They always say things like "We are not America's poodle" and "America wants to be police of the world". Take out "America" in those sentences and plug in "U.S." See? Doesn't work. In the middle east, they ONLY use the term "America".... I mean, seriously, when is the last time you heard "death to the United States!" or "the U.S.A. is the Great Satan" ? No, what you hear is..."Death to AMERICA"..."AMERICA is Great Satan".

I also lived in Panama back in the 80's...they too say "America" and "Americans" .... as in "America f*cked this canal up!" and "I can't wait til you m*thr f*ck*ng Americans get the f*ck out of here!" and "America need to mind their own f*cking business".

See? So don't tell me the rest of the world doesn't say "America".
Not to mention, "Ugly Americans" :lol

[whottt]

No , it was me with the following comment:



That just got you going man, and you went whottt on us.

Whenever you are ready, we can discuss some more rugby, mofo. I will kick you ass one more time :spin

No smeagol...if was Hendrix that pissed me off. Seriously. I am just giving him a taste of his own bigotry. The Manu nicked guy was just an innocent bystander.


If you are going to be a bigot you need to at least realize you are one...and he doesn't, he's talking about how open minded he is while he is throwing around bigoted statements 100 at a time. And neither does Fox Mulder IMO.

Me? I am not racially bigoted but I am heavily bigoted against Islam(the religion) right now. At least I know it. I tend to be bigoted against backwards movements that attempt to opress human rights, womens rights, and regelates everyone that believes differently than they do to second class status.

[Jelly]

I think most people here define Hispanic as someone who speaks fucking Spanish or originated in a country where Spanish was spoken...just because one person doesn't get it doesn't mean everyone doesn't.

.

Look Whott, I realize we are pretty much on the same side of this debate, but I don't like being painted as the "one" person in America that "doesn't get it".
If I don't get it, it's because I'm from a city which has about 600,000 hispanics, MOST of whom also apparantly don't "get it". I've got plenty of hispanic friends that consider "hispanic" to be a race...rightly or wrongly.

My own brother in law and his entire freaking family will tell you openly that their "race" is hispanic despite the fact that they've been in Texas since it was Mexico, despite the fact that NOT ONE of them speaks Spanish (nor do their parents), and despite the fact that their "lifestyle" and "culture", which Hendrix claims is another qualifier, is NO different then mine. They are basing their "hispanicness" on the fact that their skin is brown and their last name is Garza. I realize now after looking into it that the word "hispanic" refers to people that speak Spanish, but that is not neccessarily what most Americans think of when they hear the word.

with that said, I'm ready to put this thing to bed. this is exhausting...I need a drink :drunk

[manubili]

We were talking in ENGLISH, about an ARGENTINEAN called Manu, who plays in a city called SAN ANTONIO, but it's located in an english talking nation, we have argies calling themselves HENDRIX, SMEAGOL...

You get it.

Enjoy diversity.

Go spurs go.

[smeagol]

argies calling themselves HENDRIX, SMEAGOL...
I call myself Smeagol, otherwise known as Gollum, but I should have called myself Fatty Lumpkin. I always liked the way that hobbit's named sounds.

[puffytaco]

nope. sorry, you're giving false information here. I've spent lots of times in Europe and have a ton of relatives in Britain. They - especially the British- almost always refer to "America" instead of the other terms. They always say things like "We are not America's poodle" and "America wants to be police of the world". Take out "America" in those sentences and plug in "U.S." See? Doesn't work. In the middle east, they ONLY use the term "America".... I mean, seriously, when is the last time you heard "death to the United States!" or "the U.S.A. is the Great Satan" ? No, what you hear is..."Death to AMERICA"..."AMERICA is Great Satan".

I also lived in Panama back in the 80's...they too say "America" and "Americans" .... as in "America f*cked this canal up!" and "I can't wait til you m*thr f*ck*ng Americans get the f*ck out of here!" and "America need to mind their own f*cking business".

See? So don't tell me the rest of the world doesn't say "America".

:lmao

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Um...my knowledge of Argentina history, it's rises and it's declines, goes something like this...

You guys have a military.

You love Soccer.

I think that sums up the totality of your problems right there. I am not kidding on the Soccer thing...every country that claims Soccer as it's favorite sport suffers from political instability.

Why is America the most powerful nation on Earth?

Because we hate fucking Soccer more than any other nation on Earth.


But I disgress...

Your basic contributions to the world are:
A female character in an opera and bad movie.
Manu(the best one)
Maradonna(a weak contribution at best)
That boxer that put up a great fight(for a white guy) against Muhammad Ali in the 70's...
And that reporter with the great ass that interviewed Manu his rookie year(the second best one).

I think that about sums it up...

Oh.....IMO...
you guys inherited the worst aspects of the political shcitzophrenia of Spain and Italy and you guys are the last people on earth that need to be critiquing governments of other countries....

Oh and while ya'll may be able to claim pride in your lack of racial divisions compared to dumb ass ole America(near as I can tell because you are just about all white)...Your political disputes make the Palestinian Israeli conflict look like a beach party. There are all kind of divides with humans...if they aren't racial they'll be something else...
One question, are you just trying to insult Argentinians because you resent what Hendrix said? 'cause if thats the case, you're not much better than he is. You claim he's a biggot, we'll by what you have posted in this thread, you're ten times the biggot he is. Just letting you know. I'm done getting mad with you, because clearly you have no clue about the Argentinian culture, and are just blurting idiotic insults as a result of your patriotic feelings getting hurt.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

wow, how have I missed this one?

Obviously, whott is trying to provocate people, just chill out, and let him spit his shit, some of you already took the bait, well, it's ok...hehe.

Some things I'd like to say:

- Baseball is popular in those countries already listed in this post. But clearly, it does not represent the majority of Latin America, even considering the Hispanics living in the U.S.

- On the other hand, (whether you do or don't consider Brazil and Spain), soccer is the most popular sport from Mexico all the way south to Argentina and Chile. There are a few countries that are the exceptions (Venezuela, Dominican Republic, Cuba), but in overall soccer caughts the eye of the Latin Americans. If you consider Brazil, Spain, Italy and Portugal, the difference is even bigger.

- Soccer sucks? Yeah, right...whatever. :rolleyes

- I still don't get what all the fuss is about...it's just whottt trying to be as ignorant as he can, and some of you have taken the bait.

- I'd rather give the world a cocaine addicted mad man as our main contribution than Dubya....oh wait, nevermind... :lol

- I think the main difference here, and what has sprakled all this fuzz, is that in the US the people that speaks Spanish or has Spanish speaking descendants, is called hipanic, while in most of the Latin American countries we call ourselves Latinos. I can live with both, since my 4 granparents are from:
-Poland
-Lithuania
-Basque Country
-Catalonia
...and I was born in Argentina. So call me by my name and that's it!

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

nope. sorry, you're giving false information here. I've spent lots of times in Europe and have a ton of relatives in Britain. They - especially the British- almost always refer to "America" instead of the other terms. They always say things like "We are not America's poodle" and "America wants to be police of the world". Take out "America" in those sentences and plug in "U.S." See? Doesn't work. In the middle east, they ONLY use the term "America".... I mean, seriously, when is the last time you heard "death to the United States!" or "the U.S.A. is the Great Satan" ? No, what you hear is..."Death to AMERICA"..."AMERICA is Great Satan".

I also lived in Panama back in the 80's...they too say "America" and "Americans" .... as in "America f*cked this canal up!" and "I can't wait til you m*thr f*ck*ng Americans get the f*ck out of here!" and "America need to mind their own f*cking business".

See? So don't tell me the rest of the world doesn't say "America".

Well, that's not quite so. Some people call it America, others don't. It may have some bad implications (referring to one nation with the name of a whole continent), but I couldn't care less. I'm just trying to make people understand each other.



And ESPN deportes programming is marketed towards Latin America...not most of the USA. It's in Spanish...the journalists and broadcasters many are from Latin American Countries...not America. Most people born in the USA can speak English too...so even the people in America they are targeting are probably mostly from other countries.

If it's a shitty list fine...but I don't like the comments that it's because America is racist and ignorant. I think those comments are ignorant.

That's not quite so. There is one major ESPN channel in Spanish, which is a pretty good mix of all the sports that caught the Latin American eye. The major air time is given to soccer, followed by the NBA, MLB, Motorsport, Golf, and so on. It is a channel that has very different ratings according to what is on the air. When it broadcasted the Spurs Western Conference Finals it had very good cable ratings in Argentina. When it broadcasts baseball, the ratings in South America are very low, but they steady the ship with the ratings from the Caribbean and Central America.

ESPN Deportes is targeted towards the "Hispanics" in living in North America, and Central America, they also have a second channel called ESPN 2, which broadcasts for Central America and the Caribbean only. The major sports are Soccer, Baseball, Motorsport, Boxing, and in a lesser degree, NBA and NFL.

South America has its own broadcasting networks, ESPN + and ESPN Brasil. The focus is placed on Soccer, and then Basketball, Tennis, Rugby, Motor Sport, Volleyball, Hockey, etc.

The only sport that can be said that is popular in most of Latin America is soccer. The second place is where it gets complicated. Since this is something impossible to measure, it could be Baseball, or Basketball, or Motor Sport, or Boxing, or Tennis, or Volleyball....


I was born in Argentina. My dad was born in what is now Croacia. My mom's family has been in Argentina for four generations but originally came Portugal. I speak Spanish as my first language, English as my second language. My Portuguese is conversational.

I think I'm white, but when I'm asked, I'm not sure if I should say Hispanic or Caucasian.

Can somebody help me? What am I?

Well, you used to be a hobbitt, but the ring has corrupted you...now you are a filthy creature! :lol


Um...my knowledge of Argentina history, it's rises and it's declines, goes something like this...

You guys have a military.

You love Soccer.

I think that sums up the totality of your problems right there. I am not kidding on the Soccer thing...every country that claims Soccer as it's favorite sport suffers from political instability.

Why is America the most powerful nation on Earth?

Because we hate fucking Soccer more than any other nation on Earth.


But I disgress...

Your basic contributions to the world are:
A female character in an opera and bad movie.
Manu(the best one)
Maradonna(a weak contribution at best)
That boxer that put up a great fight(for a white guy) against Muhammad Ali in the 70's...
And that reporter with the great ass that interviewed Manu his rookie year(the second best one).

I think that about sums it up...

Oh.....IMO...
you guys inherited the worst aspects of the political shcitzophrenia of Spain and Italy and you guys are the last people on earth that need to be critiquing governments of other countries....

Oh and while ya'll may be able to claim pride in your lack of racial divisions compared to dumb ass ole America(near as I can tell because you are just about all white)...Your political disputes make the Palestinian Israeli conflict look like a beach party. There are all kind of divides with humans...if they aren't racial they'll be something else...

Lol, I love Politically incorrect humour, great stuff!

[smeagol]

and I was born in Argentina. So call me by my name and that's it!

Which is?

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Nicolás or Nico. :elephant

And yours, mr. smeagol?

[WalterBenitez]

I was born in Argentina. My dad was born in what is now Croacia. My mom's family has been in Argentina for four generations but originally came Portugal. I speak Spanish as my first language, English as my second language. My Portuguese is conversational.

I think I'm white, but when I'm asked, I'm not sure if I should say Hispanic or Caucasian.

Can somebody help me? What am I?

Well, well, for sure you are Argentine and since Manu is LATINO you also are :drunk

I was born in ARG, lived in BRA speak spanish, portuguesse is my second language trying to learn english and my fiance says I am a HOT LATINO :lmao

[timvp]

You think it's impressive that 5 Argentinians play in the NBA?

This is a list of Dominicans that play or have played major league baseball:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/D-R-_born.shtml

For a country of less than 9M people to have almost 400 players who have played in the major leagues is pretty amazing (not to mention that 5 of the 9 American league starters in the All-Star game were from the Dominican Republic). Comparing it to the population, that'd be like if Argentina had 1,800 players.

The only country that could even compare to that in the NBA is Slovenia. Slovenia has only two million people but has five NBA players and two players that were just drafted. If all seven play in the NBA next year, Argentina would need 140 players in the NBA to match that.

Argentina is a phenom in its own right (soccer and basketball gold medals in the same year), but there are other countries out there too that are dominating the sporting world.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

For a country of less than 9M people to have almost 400 players who have played in the major leagues is pretty amazing. Comparing it to the population, that'd be like if Argentina had 1,800 players.

The only country that could even compare to that in the NBA is Slovenia. Slovenia has only two million people but has five NBA players and two players that were just drafted. If all seven play in the NBA next year, Argentina would need 140 players in the NBA to match that.

Argentina is a phenom in its own right (soccer and basketball gold medals in the same year), but there are other countries out there too that are dominating the sporting world.

Ahem, don't forget about tennis, we have 5 players between the top 20 in the world rakings. I mean how could you forget about it? Are you trying to get yelled by every Argentinian? Huh?
:rolleyes





































Don't ban me, please don't :lol

[WalterBenitez]

Argentina is a phenom in its own right (soccer and basketball gold medals in the same year), but there are other countries out there too that are dominating the sporting world.

yeah,

BRA in futbol (soccer) :flipoff
NZ in rugby
GER in Formula 1
Russia in chess

Did I miss anyone!??

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

yeah,

BRA in futbol (soccer) :flipoff
NZ in rugby
GER in Formula 1
Russia in chess

Did I miss anyone!??

The Helvetic Republic of Roger Federer in Tennis.

[smeagol]

Argentina is a phenom in its own right (soccer and basketball gold medals in the same year), but there are other countries out there too that are dominating the sporting world.
C'mon timvp, you know damn well we are the only game in town!

Please drop your mumbo jumbo BS (including meaningless stats of players to population ratios), the Argies are here to stay.

We are taking over SA, we are taking over your (and Kori's) board

We are the real deal. If you don't believe me, go ask Sparky :lol

[Kori Ellis]

Though often used interchangeably in American English, Hispanic and Latino are not identical terms, and in certain contexts the choice between them can be significant. Hispanic, from the Latin word for "Spain," has the broader reference, potentially encompassing all Spanish-speaking peoples in both hemispheres and emphasizing the common denominator of language among communities that sometimes have little else in common. Latinowhich in Spanish means "Latin" but which as an English word is probably a shortening of the Spanish word latinoamericanorefers more exclusively to persons or communities of Latin American origin. Of the two, only Hispanic can be used in referring to Spain and its history and culture; a native of Spain residing in the United States is a Hispanic, not a Latino, and one cannot substitute Latino in the phrase the Hispanic influence on native Mexican cultures without garbling the meaning. In practice, however, this distinction is of little significance when referring to residents of the United States, most of whom are of Latin American origin and can theoretically be called by either word.·A more important distinction concerns the sociopolitical rift that has opened between Latino and Hispanic in American usage. For a certain segment of the Spanish-speaking population, Latino is a term of ethnic pride and Hispanic a label that borders on the offensive. According to this view, Hispanic lacks the authenticity and cultural resonance of Latino, with its Spanish sound and its ability to show the feminine form Latina when used of women. Furthermore, Hispanic the term used by the U.S. Census Bureau and other government agenciesis said to bear the stamp of an Anglo establishment far removed from the concerns of the Spanish-speaking community. While these views are strongly held by some, they are by no means universal, and the division in usage seems as related to geography as it is to politics, with Latino widely preferred in California and Hispanic the more usual term in Florida and Texas. Even in these regions, however, usage is often mixed, and it is not uncommon to find both terms used by the same writer or speaker.

[smeagol]

yeah,

BRA in futbol (soccer) :flipoff
NZ in rugby
GER in Formula 1
Russia in chess

Did I miss anyone!??
Well, you forgot some of the less known sports such as:

Canadians in curling
Germans in luge
Jamaicans in bobsled (I saw a movie about this topic :spin )
Argentines in roller blade hockey (Hockey sobre patines)
Chinese in ping pong
Pakistanese in squash

[TheTruth]

yeah,

BRA in futbol (soccer) :flipoff
NZ in rugby
GER in Formula 1
Russia in chess

Did I miss anyone!??
Yeah, Filipino Boxers kick ass.

[smeagol]

Do the Ellises ever sleep?

[WalterBenitez]

Yeah, Filipino Boxers kick ass.

I saw a tape of it, pretty amazing ... like Bowen over Wallyc.

I also forget about Anita Kournikova, Maria Sharapova :angel

[sol]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3506/cover4jl.jpg

[FoxMulder]

Um...my knowledge of Argentina history, it's rises and it's declines, goes something like this...

You guys have a military.

... government?
Ask who put them as government. Ask about the Plan Condor to Henry Kissinger.



You love Soccer.

I think that sums up the totality of your problems right there. I am not kidding on the Soccer thing...every country that claims Soccer as it's favorite sport suffers from political instability.

Why is America the most powerful nation on Earth?

Because we hate fucking Soccer more than any other nation on Earth.
But I disgress...


I don´t like soccer very much...
America is powerful in weapons and influence yet...
but the Euros are rising up very well... and all of them have soccer as their main sport.



Your basic contributions to the world are:
A female character in an opera and bad movie.
Manu(the best one)
Maradonna(a weak contribution at best)
That boxer that put up a great fight(for a white guy) against Muhammad Ali in the 70's...
And that reporter with the great ass that interviewed Manu his rookie year(the second best one).


That boxer was Ringo Bonavena...but he isn´t as great as Pedro Monzon was... you forgot Tennis, Science, Arts and Architecture

...Borges, Cortazar, Milstein...

and some beautiful models...

I don´t understand the "great ass" about the reporter...



you guys inherited the worst aspects of the political shcitzophrenia of Spain and Italy and you guys are the last people on earth that need to be critiquing governments of other countries....


Yep, we are the worst. North Americans never makes difference between people.... and they never have labels or sterotypes about people...
We inherited the worst aspect so i must think that Italo-NorthAmericans inherited the best...



Oh and while ya'll may be able to claim pride in your lack of racial divisions compared to dumb ass ole America(near as I can tell because you are just about all white)...Your political disputes make the Palestinian Israeli conflict look like a beach party. There are all kind of divides with humans...if they aren't racial they'll be something else...

I wouldn´t say nothing about Palestinian and Israeli matter... is out of place...
they have war and a millenial confrontation beyond ethnicity...

But something in that last phrase I feel is a lot true... major problems in South Americans aren´t racial but social and economics...

And I´m not blind Argentina isn´t the heaven of the world. We´ve got a lot of problems. And a great influence from facist governments... even today I heard a lot of people taking how bad are the jews (I don´t know where that came from maybe from the german friends of Peron) we have discrimination but not mostly by ethnicity but by social class... even today rich people has the "Cabecitas" or "Negro" nicknames for poor people (even if they are blondes with blue eyes).
Here in the south Chilean people (my mother is chilean) is discriminated as much as Bolivian or Paraguayans in main cities as La Plata, Cordoba or Buenos Aires... but because they "steal" jobs to argentinians, something similar to what many NorthAmericans think about Latinos...

I´ve said "most Americans aren´t racist, but many are..."
Isn´t that true?
And I will add "most Argentinians aren´t racist, but many are..."
But I couldn´t be so blind to say "nobody in my country is a racist" neither nobody in his country could say that...ask to

French about Africans...
Spain about Southamericans (Sudacas)
English about Frenchs...
German about Frenchs...
Corean about Japanese...
Nepalese about Chinese...
Brazilian about argentinians...

But it seems a waste of time...
After all this is a thread about the Spurs... and Basketball

And Manu deserves a lot of respect... even if he was from Mars
But he is the greatest basketball player who came from SouthAmerica...
Latino, Hispanic or whatever you want to called the people from here.

[smeagol]

ESPN is the shittiest sport network there is.

Last night I put it on and they are showing a bunch of guys eating hot dogs in Coney Island. WTF? Is this supposed to be a sport?

Isn't showing (i) the strongest man in the world, (ii) drag races, (iii) NASCAR, (iv) trucks with giant tires driving over used cars, and (v) fishing and hunting enough torture for the ESPN viewers.

And whottt, seriously, ESPN Deportes is not catered to Latin America, at least not catered correctly.

[nkdlunch]

Fox Deportes >>>> ESPN Deportes

[FoxMulder]

Isn't showing (i) the strongest man in the world, (ii) drag races, (iii) NASCAR, (iv) trucks with giant tires driving over used cars, and (v) fishing and hunting enough torture for the ESPN viewers.


Don´t forget about Poker World Series...

[smeagol]

Don´t forget about Poker World Series...
Watching poker on TV has become a fad in this country. Every lesser cable channel has some kind of poker show. :rolleyes

[FoxMulder]

oh... and cheerleaders championship... well at least something interesting

:D

[TOP-CHERRY]

ESPN is the shittiest sport network there is.

Last night I put it on and they are showing a bunch of guys eating hot dogs in Coney Island. WTF? Is this supposed to be a sport?
It is, technically a "Sport", actually.

:D

[SWC Bonfire]

Isn't showing (i) the strongest man in the world, (ii) drag races, (iii) NASCAR, (iv) trucks with giant tires driving over used cars, and (v) fishing and hunting enough torture for the ESPN viewers.

What the hell is wrong with world's strongest man? Don't tell me you've never wondered how high you could throw a beer keg?

Will Ferrel even named his kid Magnus after Magnus Ver Mangnusson. :lol

[smeagol]

It is, technically a "Sport", actually.

:D
Well, here's a couple of ideas, which should fly with ESPN, and should entertain millions of viewer around the World:

- “How many flies can you catch in an hour?”
- “How many yards can you run with a doberman on your ass?”
- “How many times can you say the word ‘Septuagenarian’ in a minute?”
- “Can you make your bed in under a minute?”

And my personal best:

- “Through a ball and hit it with a stick”. Ooops, that boring sport already exists. Its called, baseball (or cricket or softball).

[nkdlunch]

I always wondered if the hot dog eaters puke it all out at the end. I'm sure they do or else they'd be sick for a week. This makes it disgusting in my eyes. :vomit

[TOP-CHERRY]

“Through a ball and hit it with a stick”. Ooops, that boring sport already exists. Its called, baseball (or cricket or softball).
Or chase a ball for hours unending even if you end up with a score of 0-0... Oops, that boring sport already exists...

;)

[smeagol]

Or chase a ball for hours unending even if you end up with a score of 0-0... Oops, that boring sport already exists...

;)
To be honest with you, I have lost a lot of interest in soccer. ever since I started following the Spurs, I can give a rats ass about what goes on with my local soccer team. I still follow my NT, though.

Nevertheless, baseball is sooooo boring it not even funny. Not to mention cricket. That shit goes on for days!

[TOP-CHERRY]

To be honest with you, I have lost a lot of interest in soccer. ever since I started following the Spurs, I can give a rats ass about what goes on with my local soccer team. I still follow my NT, though.

Nevertheless, baseball is sooooo boring it not even funny. Not to mention cricket. That shit goes on for days!
Yeah, I hate baseball also. I just don't get what's so entertaining about it. I guess I understand why it's so popular, considering the history behind it. Invented in the US, it was a way of escaping from long hours of work, and a place where you could hang out w/ friends and drink beer... So I guess that's why it's still so important to Americans.

And about soccer, I find it extremely excruciating to watch... You just watch the ball go back and forth, back and forth, with very few scoring... But I actually enjoy playing it as much as basketball. It's just the watching part that's painful.

[FoxMulder]

And about soccer, I find it extremely excruciating to watch... You just watch the ball go back and forth, back and forth, with very few scoring... But I actually enjoy playing it as much as basketball. It's just the watching part that's painful.

I´ve never play baseball and i don´t hate it... I remember a final series where I was watching the Atlanta Braves 10 years ago... but after that I lost my interest and never watch it again.

My father and brother in law enjoy to watch it... not all the time... but sometimes.

I agree with you... Soccer or Football as we said is much fun to play than to watch... but there is a passional thing about teams. Sometimes is even a State or Country matter...

Basketball is a lot more fun to watch than to play... and its because you must be in a real good shape to play it and not look ridiculous. Like me last year...

[WalterBenitez]

ESPN is the only network showing us (Latin America) NBA games. :oops

Did I tell you I think Manu is LATINO??? :lmao

[Jelly]

- “Through a ball and hit it with a stick”. Ooops, that boring sport already exists. Its called, baseball (or cricket or softball).

There is a great difference between baseball and cricket. Just because two sports use similar equipment, does not mean they are interchangeable.
You kind of imply that it is easy to "throw a ball and hit it with a stick".
Actually, hitting a baseball is widely regarded as one of the hardest things to do in sports. Some people say it's THE hardest thing to do. It's much easier to hit a cricket ball than a baseball (and I'm not dissing cricket). In cricket, a batsman (I think that's what they're called) can expect to hit the ball on most tries. In baseball, a very good batter will hit it only 30% of the time.

Just curious...you said you were watching ESPN hot dog eating contests on TV. Aren't you in Argentina?

[TOP-CHERRY]

I´ve never play baseball and i don´t hate it... I remember a final series where I was watching the Atlanta Braves 10 years ago... but after that I lost my interest and never watch it again.

My father and brother in law enjoy to watch it... not all the time... but sometimes.

I agree with you... Soccer or Football as we said is much fun to play than to watch... but there is a passional thing about teams. Sometimes is even a State or Country matter...

Basketball is a lot more fun to watch than to play... and its because you must be in a real good shape to play it and not look ridiculous. Like me last year...
Yep... it's just culture, how you're raised, and what you're used to. I'm sure if I had spent more time in Mexico, I'd love soccer, but since I didn't, I love football and basketball... It's kinda funny.

[TOP-CHERRY]

There is a great difference between baseball and cricket. Just because two sports use similar equipment, does not mean they are interchangeable.
You kind of imply that it is easy to "throw a ball and hit it with a stick".
Actually, hitting a baseball is widely regarded as one of the hardest things to do in sports. Some people say it's THE hardest thing to do. It's much easier to hit a cricket ball than a baseball (and I'm not dissing cricket). In cricket, a batsman (I think that's what they're called) can expect to hit the ball on most tries. In baseball, a very good batter will hit it only 30% of the time.

Just curious...you said you were watching ESPN hot dog eating contests on TV. Aren't you in Argentina?
You just love looking for opportunities to get offended, don't ya?

:)

[Jelly]

You just love looking for opportunities to get offended, don't ya?

:)

I'm not offended. Do you see any exclamation points in that post? I'm just pointed out that baseball and cricket don't have much in common.

[FoxMulder]

Just curious...you said you were watching ESPN hot dog eating contests on TV. Aren't you in Argentina?

Yep we all see thats "sports" here on TV... correction only in ESPN

[hendrix]

By the way... great post Kori.

[smeagol]

There is a great difference between baseball and cricket. Just because two sports use similar equipment, does not mean they are interchangeable.
I never ever implied they were interchangeable. All I have “implied” is that they are both based on the same concept, a guy troughs a ball, a guy from the other team tries to hit it, and if he does, things happen.


You kind of imply that it is easy to "throw a ball and hit it with a stick".
No, I did not imply that. I was very straight forward. I said both sports (I also added a third one, softball) are boring (to me).


Actually, hitting a baseball is widely regarded as one of the hardest things to do in sports. Some people say it's THE hardest thing to do. It's much easier to hit a cricket ball than a baseball (and I'm not dissing cricket). In cricket, a batsman (I think that's what they're called) can expect to hit the ball on most tries. In baseball, a very good batter will hit it only 30% of the time.
Thanks for the additional info. I did not know all this (about hitting a baseball being one of the hardest things to do in sports). But it still does not change my view of baseball. I’ve been told by some of my American friends that there is a lot of strategy that goes into baseball, and that you need to know all the rules to learn to appreciate it.


Just curious...you said you were watching ESPN hot dog eating contests on TV. Aren't you in Argentina?
No, I’m from Argentina but have been living in the US for almost 9 years. Unfortunately, I’m stuck with the local ESPN and ESPN2 channels and the hot dog eating contests :spin

[smeagol]

Nicolás or Nico. :elephant

And yours, mr. smeagol?
Marco, como Marco Polo. :drunk

[smeagol]

No smeagol...if was Hendrix that pissed me off. Seriously.
:flipoff I thought is was me.

I need to talk to the dumper. He knows exacly how to get you started.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Just curious...you said you were watching ESPN hot dog eating contests on TV. Aren't you in Argentina?
I don't get it... http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smispin.gif

[Jelly]

No, I’m from Argentina but have been living in the US for almost 9 years. Unfortunately, I’m stuck with the local ESPN and ESPN2 channels and the hot dog eating contests :spin

so, now you trashin' champion hot dog speed eaters?!! did you know that most hot dogs can only be digested 20% of the time? perhaps now you will show some respect for this elite sport...which by the way, is also wildly popular in Japan and Bora Bora.

:lol

[beirmeistr]

I always wondered if the hot dog eaters puke it all out at the end. I'm sure they do or else they'd be sick for a week. This makes it disgusting in my eyes. :vomit
I am imagining they rush to a toilet and take an extra large barf bag, just in case the hotdogs come out at both ends.

[Jelly]

I don't get it... http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smispin.gif

it's not a joke. I didn't think Argentina was so lucky to get such things as ESPN and hot dog eating contests, so when he mentioned that's what he was watching I thought..hmmm, you must be in the States, and it turns out he is.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

it's not a joke. I didn't think Argentina was so lucky to get such things as ESPN and hot dog eating contests, so when he mentioned that's what he was watching I thought..hmmm, you must be in the States, and it turns out he is.
We get ESPN, just not the hot dog part, but I wouldn't call that unlucky http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[manubili]

I've found this funny quote:

"very interesting discussion except for one thing. yes manu's skin is light but ethincally he isn't white. he's south american not european."

Manu isn't white??? Is he blue? orange? We should stop taking so much in care ethnics, race and stuff. Because reality took us to some places where this kind of discussion are ridiculeous.

[MI21]

I live in Australia, have family from Australia, New Zealand and England.

Am I hispanic, can someone clear that up for me?

:lol

[timvp]

I live in Australia, have family from Australia, New Zealand and England.

Am I hispanic, can someone clear that up for me?

:lol

:lmao

Classic.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I live in Australia, have family from Australia, New Zealand and England.

Am I hispanic, can someone clear that up for me?

:lol
You probably have some hispanic in you. Us hispanics get around... hehe
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_15.gif

[diego]

"For a certain segment of the Spanish-speaking population, Latino is a term of ethnic pride and Hispanic a label that borders on the offensive. According to this view, Hispanic lacks the authenticity and cultural resonance of Latino, with its Spanish sound and its ability to show the feminine form Latina when used of women. Furthermore, Hispanic the term used by the U.S. Census Bureau and other government agencies is said to bear the stamp of an Anglo establishment far removed from the concerns of the Spanish-speaking community."

thats the gist of the argument, thank you Kori. There is no genetic basis for race so we are arguing semantics, I for one would rather be called Latino than Hispanic because my culture is more Latin American than Spaniard but either way it is really pointless, suffice to say we are human beings. In any case this sentiment is a result of latinos bonding as *survivors* of Spanish conquest, as opposed to bonding with Spanish conquest. really, it is similar to the US identifying with their continent as opposed to their language: you are identifying with what makes you different from your colonizer (England), not what makes you similar. it is the same with Hispanic and Latino.

and the original list is just a marketing ploy designed to reach as much of the spanish speaking market as possible, hence the use of hispanic, and the inclusion of someone from every possible sport in the list. actual popularity for the entire comprised region and six of the top ten, at the least, would be soccer players, and at most you might get 1 baseball player.

I'd like to tell WHOTT that the USA's political stability has more to do with creating instability abroad than it has to do with a disdain for soccer (if we were to pinpoint a single factor). and even then, he is completely wrong, because the same latinos that follow baseball and football in the states often follow a soccer team, not to mention the white suburban soccer mom movement. So while soccer may not be extremely popular in the US, it is still more popular than rugby, golf, tennis, and other more obscure sports. Once y'all win something it will probably blow up.

i always found it interesting that in soccer you can have a tie game, but to my knowledge none of the big US sports allow for a tie, its always black or white, win or lose.

and why not, I'll also add that if it werent for immigrants bringing their culture and talents to the US, the US would probably not be the super power it is today, so you might want to respect the fact that diversity, not hegemony, is your country's greatest strength (at least in terms of culture).

[Jelly]

You probably have some hispanic in you. Us hispanics get around... hehe
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_15.gif


reminds me of a really bad pick-up line I once heard in a bar...


obnoxious guy - "So, do you have any hispanic in you"
Me - "No"
O.G. - "would you like some? :eyebrows "
Me - :rolleyes

bad line guys. don't try it.

[whottt]

This is from the US Census Bureau and the Census questionaire:

Scroll down to page 3.

Or I'll just type it for you:

5. Is this person Spanish/Hispanic/Latino

Do you see Latino there, shitheads?


6. What is this persons race?(check one)
White
Black, Afr Am, or Negro
American Indian or Alaskan Native
Asian Indian
Chinese
Filipino
Japanese
Korean
Viet Namese
Other Asian
Native Hawaiian
Guamanian or Chamorro
Samoan
Other Paciffic Islander


Furthermore...on the demographic breakdown for hispanics provided by the US census it has this footnote:

NOTE: Percentages do not add up to 100% due to rounding, and because Hispanics may be of any race and are therefore counted under more than one category.


Any of you experts on America(this means you Hendrix and Diego) have something to say now, or are you ready to apologize for your ignorance?


All that shit by the way...is not some CIA plot...it's an attempt to be politically correct and not offend anyone...that's why you got 3 words on some of these selections.

I think it's stupid...but you don't realize that minority/ethnic/cultural groups themselves often embrace their minority status here, they want the division and the segregation...In some cases they get benefits because of it. But more importantly if people want to celebrate their culture and race they are free to do so here...I personally think those are stupid bonds usually, but no more stupid that your primary bond being because you all speak the same language...but that's what being in a free country is all about and some people want to do that.

So how about you just shut the fuck up and don't tell me about the way in which my government defines race and classifies hispanics er excuse me Latinos. Since you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Like I told you in the first place.

Futhermore...I have some emails for you guys...

[email protected]

That one is for the Miss Hispanic beauty Pageant...you need to tell those racist hispanics what they need to call themselves....

[email protected]


That one is for the Hispanic Heritage Foundation of America...you need to email those hispanics and tell them what they should do.

But just whatever you do...stop being ignorant. Half the people that live here don't even understand how this country works with it's huge cultural diversity, many people cling to their ethnic and racial history as a means of identity never realizing that when you get here those things are no longer supposed to be the most important thing. That's not what America is about...but that's what many people that don't get it do here, including hispanics......So don't even think you can sit on your ass out there and read some bullshit propaganda and think you've got us all figured out...hating dickheads.

[whottt]

DIEG,



"For a certain segment of the Spanish-speaking population, Latino is a term of ethnic pride

That's kind of a stupid way to describe your ethnicity if you ask me...I didn't realize ya'll were all of italian ancestry.



and Hispanic a label that borders on the offensive.

Yeah because...Hispanic is less of a Latin derivative word than Latino. :rolleyes


According to this view, Hispanic lacks the authenticity and cultural resonance of Latino,

This just in...Latin originated in Europe....just like Spanish.


Furthermore, Hispanic the term used by the U.S. Census Bureau and other government agencies is said to bear the stamp of an Anglo establishment far removed from the concerns of the Spanish-speaking community."

Why don't you actually go take a look at the US Census before you say something stupid. Don't be a Hendrix.

And for the 1 billionth time...

The US Census and Government agencies don't sponsor or participate in the Miss Hispanic USA pageant, hispanics do...they didn't create the Hispanic heritate foundation, hispanics did...why don't you tell them what they need to call themselves...and blame the hispanics here for calling themselves that. We don't give a flying fuck what they call themselves, they do.


There is no genetic basis for race so we are arguing semantics, I for one would rather be called Latino than Hispanic because my culture is more Latin American than Spaniard but either way it is really pointless, suffice to say we are human beings.

I think ya'll are more Spanish influenced than Italian...but that's just me. But you are right...it is pointless since they are both Latin in origin.




In any case this sentiment is a result of latinos bonding as *survivors* of Spanish conquest, as opposed to bonding with Spanish conquest.


So let me get this straight...your common bond and way of separating yourself from your conquerers, is uniting and celebrating the languages imposed on by your conquerors? Got it.

And I must have missed Spain conquering the Argentines..could you point me to that chapter in World History? Last I checked a lot of them were the ones that did the actual conquerering and colonizing.




really, it is similar to the US identifying with their continent as opposed to their language: you are identifying with what makes you different from your colonizer (England), not what makes you similar.

Most of us are the descendants of the actual colonizers, and the conquerers, and the slavers, and the slaves and the conquered, and the colonized...and the founders.

What you are doing is called passing the buck and denying the responsibility of at least some of your ancestors...well at least some of you are doing it...those that aren't are celebrating their conquerors, and their enslavers.

And the main thing we identify with is our liberties...and since most of the immigrants come here for the same reasons...I think that's what most of them identify with. That is the spirit of our bond...and it's not a racial or ethnic bond...at least it's not supposed to be...but then again..we get lot of people that are incapable of bonding beyond ethnic, linguistic. religious and racial barriers, IE primitive barriers...as opposed to ideological ones..and they kind of fuck the place up. Those are those bigots that don't realize they are bigots that I was referring too. They don't get what this country is about...but hey it's America and they are free to be bigoted in opinion if they want...it'd just be nice if they realized it when they are busy calling everyone else racist.

As for our continental identification...Every time we refer to ourselves as Americans we are paying tribute to a person of Latin origin, as is the name we gave our continent, just like you...so exactly how are we biased again?





and the original list is just a marketing ploy designed to reach as much of the spanish speaking market as possible, hence the use of hispanic, and the inclusion of someone from every possible sport in the list. actual popularity for the entire comprised region and six of the top ten, at the least, would be soccer players, and at most you might get 1 baseball player.


I gurantee you when that list comes out...it will be hispanics that made it, conceptualized the formula behind the choices, and did the research on it. I think the reason ESPN deportes employs hispanic is to get the hispanic perspective on things...I think they figure that hispanics probably know more about hispanics than non hispanics do...and so for that reason I think that list was compiled by hispanics...let's see whose name is on it when it comes out.

And for the 1 trillionth time...it's not supposed to be popularity contest...it's based on influence, career achivements, and recent achievement.

I view influence to mean, at least in part...influence within their own countries. And secondary influence...well I'd be wlling to be there are more Dominicans dominating what to them is a foreign league...than there are Argentinians and Brazillians. And I supect the Dominicans will have different opinon on it than you...inspite of your hispanic bond.




I'd like to tell WHOTT that the USA's political stability has more to do with creating instability abroad

DIEG,

And I'd like to tell you that you can't grow a tree without an acorn...America is not ever going to support socialist or communist principals and movements...they are the absolute enemy of all that this country stands for and if that's what you want...then don't ever consider us a friend, because we aren't one if that's what you seek. So don't be surprised when we take the other side...and if it just so happens than the socialist side is using terror tactics to protest...well the side we are supporting will probably end up kicking the crap out of the other side...

We did this during the coldwar because #1. Socialism and Communism suck. #2. We didn't want a bunch of Russian nukes stuck up our butts.

Our political stability has to do with a concept called peaceful transfer of power and accepting the will of the people...if the countries we "destabilize" understood than...then we couldn't destabilize them now could we?

This means not commiting terrorist acts when you don't like the popularly elected leader...this means having a military that actually serves the country rather than outside influences, and instead of trying to run it.

Don't worry, I think we are getting closer to having those sorts of problems...but luckily we don't yet and hopefully we never will...but the left here is starting to get that way.




So while soccer may not be extremely popular in the US, it is still more popular than rugby, golf, tennis, and other more obscure sports. Once y'all win something it will probably blow up.


Baseball isn't even the most popular sport here...but it is in some Latin American countries...and those athletes have tremednous influence in their home countries as well as in a foreign league.


i always found it interesting that in soccer you can have a tie game, but to my knowledge none of the big US sports allow for a tie, its always black or white, win or lose.


You can have ties in Hockey. Ties suck, we try to do everything to prevent them...and that's probably why Hockey is the least popular of our major sports....what's the point of playing a pro game if you don't have a winner?


I'll also add that if it werent for immigrants bringing their culture and talents to the US, the US would probably not be the super power it is today, so you might want to respect the fact that diversity, not hegemony, is your country's greatest strength (at least in terms of culture).


Classic..America is the most culturally diverse country in the entire world, I know this...we aren't the ones that have an official national language. But I bet most Latin American countries do..actually...most countries do. I am not going to criticize that...because I actually feel that we should have an official national language.


But that doesn't mean all aspects of every culture have something positive to contribute...

What I mean by backwards aspects is people that don't believe in equal rights for all, or religious freedoms, those that don't believe in Democratic process, and capitalism, and that unite based on ethnic, religious, linguistic and racial ties, over ideological ties, those that represent the spirit in which this country was formed. Those that are the absolute opposite of the principalst under which it was formed.

If your primary world view is bonding via ethnic, religious, linguistic concepts...you are asking for absolute and total corruption.


Like I said earlier...I think the majority of Dominicans will probably have a different perspective on this than you will, and I don't think they'll think the inclusion of two Dominican baseball players was stupid at all..and they are just as hispanic and Latin American as you are. I get it...do you? You are the Latin American...not I.

And Soccer Moms don't give a crap about pro-Soccer, they are called Soccer Moms because their children play it, and they typify the modern housewife, and I think they are supposed to be easy to pick up too or something..but anyway...Childrens Soccer is popular here and always has been...it's just not a popular pro sport. And it sucks to watch. We'll get interested in it when we win at it...until then, it's just not interesting enough to watch when we suck at it.

[Jelly]

"Classic..America is the most culturally diverse country in the entire world, I know this...we aren't the ones that have an official national language. But I bet most Latin American countries do..actually...most countries do. "

Not only do most Latin American countries have an official language, but they also have an official religion!! Argentina , and most Latin American coutries, are officially Roman Catholic. So much for diversity.

[Jelly]

I probably shouldn't have bothered posting the above, as I really don't mean to drag this on or cause offense, but I just think some of you Argentines should avoid lecturing us on diversity. That's all.

[FoxMulder]

No more comments about ethnicity please... that seems to have no end...

[whottt]

Ya'll started it.

[smeagol]

Not only do most Latin American countries have an official language, but they also have an official religion!! Argentina , and most Latin American coutries, are officially Roman Catholic. So much for diversity.
Jelly, please do your research before spewing nonsense. Even though the Roman Catholic religion is the oficial religion of Argentina (it says so in our Consitution), there is total freedom of religion. Argentina has the third largest Jewish population outside Israel (after the US and England). We have large Muslim and Armenian communities, too.

So before going:


So much for diversity.

please research the subject.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Ya'll started it.
No, Hendrix started it, and you, like the mature and sensible adult that you are, felt like insulting every argentinian for it. Well, congrats, this thread is a testament to people's stupidity!

[hendrix]

Or I'll just type it for you:
5. Is this person Spanish/Hispanic/Latino
Do you see Latino there, shitheads?

6. What is this persons race?(check one)
White
Black, Afr Am, or Negro
American Indian or Alaskan Native
Asian Indian
Chinese
Filipino
Japanese
Korean
Viet Namese
Other Asian
Native Hawaiian
Guamanian or Chamorro
Samoan
Other Paciffic Islander

NOTE: Percentages do not add up to 100% due to rounding, and because Hispanics may be of any race and are therefore counted under more than one category.

Any of you experts on America(this means you Hendrix and Diego) have something to say now, or are you ready to apologize for your ignorance?


Dude, thats what i was saying all the time.
Ok, I didnt know the actual questions from the Census Bureau... I'm happy that is Hispanic is not considered a race (Told you Jelly :))
And that Manu is Hispanic AND white... just like I've been saying.

[hendrix]

No, Hendrix started it!

Please... save it. You look like the nerd in the classroom. "Miss Kori, he started it"

[FoxMulder]

I live in Argentina and I´m protestant... but my taxes (and many protestant, jews and muslim taxes) pays the salary to the catholics priest, bishops and cardenals...

I´m not proud than my country has an official religion... neither if it was a protestant official religion...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Please... save it. You look like the nerd in the classroom. "Miss Kori, he started it"
Who blew up at Jelly because she wasn't sure if Manu was hispanic??? I'm not telling Kori shit. IMO you're an ass plain and simple, and so is Whottt. You both turned a simple imformative thread about Manu's success, into a dick measuring contest with which to express your ignorance and biggotry. Furthermore, you calling me a nerd only emphasizes the fact that you're an inmature idiot, who still thinks "nerd" is an insult! http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif Simply idiotic!

[smeagol]

I live in Argentina and I´m protestant... but my taxes (and many protestant, jews and muslim taxes) pays the salary to the catholics priest, bishops and cardenals...

I´m not proud than my country has an official religion... neither if it was a protestant official religion...
I believe England has an official religion too. And the head of that (Protestant) religion is the Queen.

Is there religious persecution in England? No

Is there religious persecution in Argentina? No

So who cares if there is an oficila religion?

[FoxMulder]

Me and a lot of non-catholics are worried about it. Because we see some injustice here.

Here I´ve got a lot of critics about pay 10 percent to Pastors and for other way I must pay salary to catholics priests...

Anyways my point is than maybe any country in the world has his own way to discriminate people...

Just today I was arguing with someone who thinks than the jews dosn´t must exist (yep as you read) and he is not the only one with this tought.

[diego]

whott, my comments went entirely over your head. The entire first section you picked apart was something Kori posted which IMO captured the argument over Latino and Hispanic. I then explained why I prefer Latino, while at the same time pointing out that it is basically meaningless. I never got into the whole census beaureau thing so I'm not even going to comment that.

the nation states on the american continent were formed by settlers whose disdain for the native peoples is well-chronicled. However, they sought independence from their original countries and in forging a new national identity they needed to differentiate themselves from their country of origin, and most importantly from their colonizer, be that England, Spain, or Portugal. There is a reason that each colony has its own dialect of the former official language. Now, Latino and Hispanic are words with linguistic connotations but they are used to identify cultures, not languages. Hispanic has a colonial connotation because it is a derivative of Hispania, the word the Spaniards christened the "new" world with. Therefore, Hispanic has colonial connotations that Latino does not. is that so hard to understand??

and as far as the list, I could give a flying fuck about what some talking heads at ESPN think, but if you cant see that it is a marketing tool designed to highlight athletes from as many markets as possible, then you are blind.

I lived in the US from age 4 to 12, then again from age 21 to 24, on both the east and west coast. I have brothers and nephews there and I was there during the 94, 98, and 2002 world cups. I can say with absolute certainty that there is a soccer loving public in the US that is continually growing, and as more kids begin to play it there will be more appreciation for it. The soccer moms are raising generations of children who appreciate the world's most popular game.

and dont go around acting like you know all of world history, because you are just embarassing yourself. Not commiting terrorist acts when you dont like the popularly elected leader? that's funny, that is exactly what Nixon and Kissinger did to Chile's democratically elected Salvador Allende, ending the longest standing democracy in South America in the process. having a military that serves the country instead of trying to run it? Chile used to, until CIA agents killed General Shneider and hooked up Pinochet with the money and intelligence to take over. I only give that example because I am living in Chile now and you made it too easy.

The US system has several provisions that make it difficult for rapid change in government which are propitious to stability, and many nations would be better off to implement them. But that doesn't mean it hasn't used wars abroad (declared or covert) to jumpstart the US economy, create bipartisan fronts, and secure resources and markets for future growth. All the same, I never said that was the sole nor even the primary reason for US political stability, just that thats a more sensible explanation for it than a hate for soccer. It sounds like you're the type to justify the Vietnam war and you probably believe Kennedy got killed by the magic bullet, so it doesnt seem worth it to continue discussing politics with you.

In any case, you act as if I attacked the US in my previous post, when in reality I praised the US' cultural diversity. I know the US more than well enough to know there are plenty of good things there, including good people. But that doesnt mean it is perfect either.

[Jelly]

Dude, thats what i was saying all the time.
Ok, I didnt know the actual questions from the Census Bureau... I'm happy that is Hispanic is not considered a race (Told you Jelly :))
And that Manu is Hispanic AND white... just like I've been saying.

umm....I said like FIVE PAGES AGO that I realize now what the correct meaning of the word "hispanic" is ! You have TOTALLY misunderstood my subsequent points which were not what the US Census Bureau meant by it (or as you initially claimed "The CIA" lol) but rather how Americans INTERPRETED the word. Can we just wrap this up now!!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

umm....I said like FIVE PAGES AGO that I realize now what the correct meaning of the word "hispanic" is ! You have TOTALLY misunderstood my subsequent points which were not what the US Census Bureau meant by it (or as you initially claimed "The CIA" lol) but rather how Americans INTERPRETED the word. Can we just wrap this up now!!
agreed

[kolko]

Jelly, please do your research before spewing nonsense. Even though the Roman Catholic religion is the oficial religion of Argentina (it says so in our Consitution), there is total freedom of religion. Argentina has the third largest Jewish population outside Israel (after the US and England). We have large Muslim and Armenian communities, too.

There are also a lot of Welsh towns in the Patagonia.

[doldrums]

Argentina is a great country, the US is a great country. Now can we get back to the Spurs?

[smeagol]

Argentina is a great country, the US is a great country. Now can we get back to the Spurs?
Wow, very conciliatory first post.

Welcome to the forum!

[whottt]

Sorry, the words of Hendrix make it impossible for there to be peace between our two countries at this time. Too many harsh words have been said and there is too much water under the bridge.

I call on Nestor Kirchner, chosen leader of the people of Argentina, to expunge the walking international disaster known as Hendrix from it's soil and reprimand him into US custody so that he may be punished. I also demand that you take the Argentine subversive influence known as Smeagol back to the Argentine hell that spawned him. Only then will there be the possiblity of peace between our two peoples.


Either that or get Athenea to send the topless photos she has been promising for so long.


And DIEG...you're wrong. It's the Soccer, seriously.


I tell you what...let's play a game...I'll name a country and you tell me what their most popular sport is....we'll then look at how many times they changed governments in the last century. Be prepared to do a lot of counting on the Soccer countries.

Also...isn't Soccer the sport where Refs shoot themselves in the head, where players who score own goals get assasinated, and where fans and players have been known to take axes to the referees?

Yeah...nothing says Western civilization like that...

And to quote a wise hispanic I once knew...in Latin America....Soccer is life. It is the Soccer. Renounce Soccer and embrace prosperity...if you don't do that, then don't blame the US for your struggles.

[diego]

ay ay ay, Whott, you must be old, cause you are stubborn as a donkey!

I never blamed the US! it is a part of the problem, but definitely not the sole cause!

anyways yes there is a happenstance correlation between soccer loving nations and political instability, but that is only because every country loves soccer besides the US, and the US is the most politically stable country on earth.

Besides, its not our fault we love our teams more than our governments, our teams perform much better than the governments!!!

anyways the work day is done and I'm ready for a drink. Cheers mate!

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Sorry, the words of Hendrix make it impossible for there to be peace between our two countries at this time. Too many harsh words have been said and there is too much water under the bridge.

I call on Nestor Kirchner, chosen leader of the people of Argentina, to expunge the walking international disaster known as Hendrix from it's soil and reprimand him into US custody so that he may be punished. I also demand that you take the Argentine subversive influence known as Smeagol back to the Argentine hell that spawned him. Only then will there be the possiblity of peace between our two peoples.


Either that or get Athenea to send the topless photos she has been promising for so long.


And DIEG...you're wrong. It's the Soccer, seriously.


I tell you what...let's play a game...I'll name a country and you tell me what their most popular sport is....we'll then look at how many times they changed governments in the last century. Be prepared to do a lot of counting on the Soccer countries.

Also...isn't Soccer the sport where Refs shoot themselves in the head, where players who score own goals get assasinated, and where fans and players have been known to take axes to the referees?

Yeah...nothing says Western civilization like that...

And to quote a wise hispanic I once knew...in Latin America....Soccer is life. It is the Soccer. Renounce Soccer and embrace prosperity...if you don't do that, then don't blame the US for your struggles.


Soccer is the most popular national sport in:

-Argentina
-Brazil
-England, Scotland, Wales
-Germany
-Italy
-Spain
-France
-Mexico
-Holland
-Ireland (along rugby)
-Sweden, Denmark and Norway (along winter sports)
-Turkey
-Uruguay
-Colombia
-Portugal
-Serbia, Croatia
-Nigeria
-Cameroon

and many more. What's the point? Is that soccer is so popular worldwide that you can't make any kind of connection as the one you've posted. I thought first it was a joke, but if you keep saying it....hmm, well...

I could say that baseball is guilty as charge too, since it is played in Mexico, the pacific and democratic island of Cuba, Venezuela....but it is also popular in Japan, so connecting a sport with the political and economical history of a country is pretty much nonsense.

[smeagol]

I also demand that you take the Argentine subversive influence known as Smeagol back to the Argentine hell that spawned him
I'm dammed by two posters now: whottt and MB. :depressed

[hendrix]

Either that or get Athenea to send the topless photos she has been promising for so long.

Whatever dude...