Amico: Spurs would love to land Ilyasova or Thaddeus Young

[ace3g]

-- OK, that's enough about the game, etc. All-Star weekend is mostly entertaining because everyone is talking about Thursday's trade deadline. Some intriguing names to keep eye on as potential moving parts, mentioned to me by league insiders: Milwaukee Bucks forward Ersan Ilyasova and guard Gary Neal; Philadelphia 76ers forward Thaddeus Young; Detroit Pistons guard Rodney Stuckey; and, of course, Rockets center Omer Asik.


-- The Spurs, I am told, would love to land Ilyasova or Young. But no one's sure how they could actually make that happen.

http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/stars-shining-but-return-to-real-nba-can-t-come-soon-enough-021614

[Mugen]

The Spurs could easily land Ilyasova if they valued him that highly tbh.

[timtonymanu]

Ersan would be the easier get, but I would prefer Thad Young.

[Bruno]

Amico said few days ago that Leonard could be traded which sounds a lot like pure BS so I would be careful with what he said.

Saying that, both Ilyasova and Young would makes sense for Spurs. I would likely go with Ilyasova: better contract, better rebounder, better shooter and will cost less assets to get.

[Mugen]

Unless, we can get rid of Errors in the deal, I'm not particularly fond of giving either Thad or Ilyasova 8mil for the next 3+ years tbh.

[Chinook]

Unless, we can get rid of Errors in the deal...

Don't see why they couldn't. Both teams are in grear cap shape, and Philly in particular will struggle to reach the floor next season. I think the Spurs may hesitate to move Ayres unless they get a third-string center from somewhere.

[Chinook]

It would not surprise me if the Bucks are demanding teams take Neal along with any trade. Would you all on ST be all right with giving up a guard like Mills or Beli and taking Neal back? I would be hesitant, to say the least.

[RD2191]

It would not surprise me if the Bucks are demanding teams take Neal along with any trade. Would you all on ST be all right with giving up a guard like Mills or Beli and taking Neal back? I would be hesitant, to say the least.
Mills will be useless in the PO imo. I think Marco has more to offer. I don't see why people make such a big deal over Mills, the dude is basically a shorter Neal.

[Ditty]

Bonner,Ayers,De Colo,Joseph and Baynes for Ilyasova and Neal :flag:

[Chinook]

Bonner,Ayers,De Colo,Joseph and Baynes for Ilyasova and Neal :flag:

Switching out Cory for Beli or Patty makes more sense. No way the Spurs go without a second true PG.

[ElNono]

Unless, we can get rid of Errors in the deal, I'm not particularly fond of giving either Thad or Ilyasova 8mil for the next 3+ years tbh.

We could rent them for a season or two, until TD calls it quits, then you dump em when they're juicy expirings...

[Mugen]

We could rent them for a season or two, until TD calls it quits, then you dump em when they're juicy expirings...

Wouldn't hate getting either player and whoever is here after Duncan is pretty irrelevant. I'm just hoping we get rid of Bonner's expiring before dreaming about flipping one of these guys in a couple of years tbh.

[Chinook]

We could rent them for a season or two, until TD calls it quits, then you dump em when they're juicy expirings...

OR... You feature Ilyasova to so that his returns to his production of three years ago (17/12 per 36) and move him for a lottery pick. Worst comes to worst, his last year is only $400k guaranteed.

[cd021]

It would not surprise me if the Bucks are demanding teams take Neal along with any trade. Would you all on ST be all right with giving up a guard like Mills or Beli and taking Neal back? I would be hesitant, to say the least.

Both of them basically replaced him and his role and are doing a great job,not on board with that.

[cd021]

Mills will be useless in the PO imo. I think Marco has more to offer. I don't see why people make such a big deal over Mills, the dude is basically a shorter Neal.

Neal was a rare combination of; nonathletic, average length, below average size, & lack of quickness. He could just shoot the ball like nobody's business.

Mills is a different story; better handles, one of the quickest players in the league, quick and confident release, and generally plays better than Neal without the ball.

Mills is clearly a better fit in our offense and is much more passable as PG that Neal was. There were plenty of times when Neal would give up on creating a play and take a jumper instead. I'm not saying he would torch teams but for 10-15 minutes a game, their is always a chance he could get hot and be an boost off the bench.

Marco will be better than Neal was in the playoffs, because of his ability to play off Manu and Diaw. He can score in multiple ways off screens with and without the balls, spotting up and cuts to the basket. A better passer and can help Manu with his play making. His size is also better suited against bigger, longer or more athletic teams less of the up faking to get a clean shot off. And a better defender by comparison.

[Spursfanfromafar]

If Ilyasova is the only option left, the Spurs must try their utmost to get Khris Middleton along with him. Not a defensive weapon, but a decent SF backup who could be developed further.

[Baam]

It would not surprise me if the Bucks are demanding teams take Neal along with any trade. Would you all on ST be all right with giving up a guard like Mills or Beli and taking Neal back? I would be hesitant, to say the least.

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Neal is underrated here and somehow Beli and Mills are overrated...

Neal is a better passer than Mills and arguably a better shooter than Beli. Neither are plus defenders...

[Blizzardwizard]

Belinelli is a far greater player for this team than Neal.

[exstatic]

Believe pretty much NOTHING of what you hear this week.

I remember the Spurs making an occasional deadline deal. I remember lots of rumors. I don't ever remember the rumors matching the deals that went down.

[Seventyniner]

Believe pretty much NOTHING of what you hear this week.

I remember the Spurs making an occasional deadline deal. I remember lots of rumors. I don't ever remember the rumors matching the deals that went down.

Were there rumors about the RJ/Jax trade?

[szkorhetz]

Were there rumors about the RJ/Jax trade?
Not really. That just came out of nowhere and it was completed in minutes, virtually.

[cd021]

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Neal is underrated here and somehow Beli and Mills are overrated...

Neal is a better passer than Mills and arguably a better shooter than Beli. Neither are plus defenders...

Mills is as good or a better shooter than Neal is and plays better without the ball, ditto for Beli. Mills is one of the quickest players in the league and Beli is a couple of inches taller and a better passer. Getting Neal back is pointless.

[cd021]

Were there rumors about the RJ/Jax trade?

Sometimes deals materialize late and "source" don't leak the info before the trade. A few years ago Deron Williams was traded and know one had a clue he was even available.

[Dex]

-- The Spurs, I am told, would love to land Ilyasova or Young. But no one's sure how they could actually make that happen.

How the fuck does this count as journalism?

I'm sure there are tons of guys the Spurs would LOVE to land...you know, Lebron, KD, Aldridge....but nobody really knows how they can make it happen.

[elemento]

How the fuck does this count as journalism?

I'm sure there are tons of guys the Spurs would LOVE to land...you know, Lebron, KD, Aldridge....but nobody really knows how they can make it happen.

Pretty much

Sam Amico sux

[ajballer4]

What day is the deadline this year?

[TheWriter]

The tides, I am told, would love to go in and go out. But no one's sure how they could actually make that happen.

- Bill O'Rielly

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Mills is as good or a better shooter than Neal is and plays better without the ball, ditto for Beli. Mills is one of the quickest players in the league and Beli is a couple of inches taller and a better passer. Getting Neal back is pointless.

Neal is better with the ball were he shows good passing and results in running the pnr. He is a better playmaker. They are both very similar shooters. Quick release, can catch and shoot as well as off the dribble. I think Mills has a better midrange game and he is better at attacking the rim. Neal settled for runners and floaters while the smaller Mills can use his quickness to beat defenders to get home.

The difference is in defense. They both get picked off by picks too easily. Teams mercilessly attack Mills with pnr as they should but don't forget they used to do that with Neal too. Mills does lightyears better job chasing his man off the ball or on isos. He does a much better job in help defense in both sagging in and getting his hands on balls as well as getting back to his man when the ball is swung around. Neal was awful at this. He was ineffective and then couldn't get back outside. Mills also does a better job than Neal in getting back in transition. Again because of his quickness.

[Captivus]

If I had to guess I would say the next Spurs news would be Bonner getting an extension.:wakeup

[Chomag]

Having both Marco and Neal on the same team would be completely counter productive.

[Mal]

Having both Marco and Neal on the same team would be completely counter productive.

Like having Ayers and CoJo isnt

[Spursfanfromafar]

Lets be clear. Adding Ilyasova and Neal will *not* catapult the Spurs' chances this season at all. It will at best be a lateral entry with some safeguards for the future if Diaw leaves. Thats all.

[T Park]

Lets be clear. Adding Ilyasova and Neal will *not* catapult the Spurs' chances this season at all. It will at best be a lateral entry with some safeguards for the future if Diaw leaves. Thats all.


Lol, yeah Illyasova doesn't make them better at all.

The shit that's spewed here now is just comical.

[HarlemHeat37]

Ilyasova makes the Spurs better, but like Spursfanfromafar said, it certainly wouldn't catapult their chances of contending, tbh..

He's having a poor season, he still needs to prove that he can contribute at a high level and that the change of scenery will help him find his motivation..it's far from a guarantee..

I have no interest in Neal..if they can get Middleton back, I would be all-in on this deal, but if Neal is involved, I hope there's another team involved..

Btw, I don't think Amico is legit, tbh..he probably read the rumors thread on SpursTalk, which is what most "reporters" do nowadays..

[Michael Jordan.]

Amico is not legit. Amick is.

[timtonymanu]

Lol, yeah Illyasova doesn't make them better at all.

The shit that's spewed here now is just comical.

Saying Jeff Ayres is a bigger better Malik Rose is far more comical, tbh.

[benefactor]

Amico is not legit. Amick is.

[Chomag]

Truth is Spurs FO most likely wont do shit, but we can always entertain the idea. It's going to be sad when this FO actually has to work and build a team when the big 3 are all gone.

[cd021]

What day is the deadline this year?

Thursday 3pm

[SpurSwag]

Young would help tremendously, I'd be fine with either though. With Ersan we get better shooting and about the same rebounding, with Young we get more athleticism. I personally think we need what Young provides a little more, but Ersan is a good player too.

I still think Jeff Green would fit nicely here, and yes he isn't very efficient but he wouldn't be asked to do the things he does in Boston here. He'd essentially be relegated to 3 pt shots, which if i remember correctly he's actually pretty good at statistically, and the occasional drive to the rim. He's a solid defender too.

[bluebellmaniac]

If I had to guess I would say the next Spurs news would be Bonner getting an extension.:wakeup

If we don't come up with an alternative stretch 4, this could be true. I think that signing Thomas earlier was from the hope that he could develop to that stretch 4. But he obviously must not have shown the qualities needed....

[TheGoldStandard]

Waiting to see the spurs sign Bonner 3/24 mil.. gotta lock him up before Portland comes calling

[timtonymanu]

Bonner looks done as an NBA rotation player. I don't think he's in the Spurs' long term plans.

[DapDaGenius]

Truth is Spurs FO most likely wont do shit, but we can always entertain the idea. It's going to be sad when this FO actually has to work and build a team when the big 3 are all gone.

Yeah, I think most of us already feel this way. We can still hope, though.

[exstatic]

Young would help tremendously, I'd be fine with either though. With Ersan we get better shooting and about the same rebounding, with Young we get more athleticism. I personally think we need what Young provides a little more, but Ersan is a good player too.

I still think Jeff Green would fit nicely here, and yes he isn't very efficient but he wouldn't be asked to do the things he does in Boston here. He'd essentially be relegated to 3 pt shots, which if i remember correctly he's actually pretty good at statistically, and the occasional drive to the rim. He's a solid defender too.
$10M a year for a black Bonner. And he has a heart condition!

[eDizzle20]

I prefer Young for sure. His contract is not too bad at $8-$9 .5 million/year through 15-16. He has stayed healthy throughout his career and even though he is an undersized 4 the league is so small ball orientated that it would probably be an ideal fit.

[freetiago]

Ersan is known for starting off extremely slowly but going off in the second half of the season
also a contract year guy so you have to worry about that though

but he is playing on a terrible Bucks team with no real playmakers or coaching and hes a pick and pop guy who needs to be created for
hes also would be the 2nd best rebounder on the team and a very good pick and pop threat
he would allow Splitter to go to the bench where he posts 20+ PERs and feasts on bench bigs while the starting lineup gets the much needed spacing they need
especially with Duncan playing at the rim this season Ersan can play right where hes comfortable
then they still have the option too go big with Splitter/Duncan but they wont have to rely on it

Defense still wins championships obviously but its less important since 2011 when jumpshooting teams like Dallas and the Heat won this decade
Spurs with Ilyasova would still be top 5 defensively but could potentially be by far the best offensive team in the league
Spurs have posted like 120+ OffRtg ratings with Bonner on the floor
just imagine what they could do with a true NBA caliber stretch 4

[itzsoweezee]

Young would be awesome, Illyasova would be pointless. I'd rather the Spurs have Bonner than Illyasova.

[BatManu20]

Still think the spurs stand pat as usual. The Bucks aren't just going to fork over Ilysova for the sake of it. They'll demand something in return, something better than a package of Bonner, De Colo, and/or Baynes..

[Budkin]

Just extend Bonner and Ayres to long term contracts and call it a day.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Young would be awesome, Illyasova would be pointless. I'd rather the Spurs have Bonner than Illyasova.

Agreed. I'll continue thinking that we can't land Young with hopes of being shocked with good news.

[T Park]

Saying Jeff Ayres is a bigger better Malik Rose is far more comical, tbh.

Never said a better Malik Rose. Said he was Malik Rose 2.0 and that will prove out. Just because you basement dwelling dumb fucks have the patience of a fucking humming bird.

[timtonymanu]

Ayers is a better bigger Malik Rose. Been saying this for a while. Really really excited about this kid. When Diaw goes back to soft offensively, I'd play him down the stretch in smaller situations. Great rebounder.


Never said a better Malik Rose. Said he was Malik Rose 2.0 and that will prove out. Just because you basement dwelling dumb fucks have the patience of a fucking humming bird.

Uh yeah you did.

[hater]

:lol

[look_at_g_shred]

Agreed. I'll continue thinking that we can't land Young with hopes of being shocked with good news.

[hater]

Lets be clear. Adding Ilyasova and Neal will *not* catapult the Spurs' chances this season at all. It will at best be a lateral entry with some safeguards for the future if Diaw leaves. Thats all.

wrong, it's insurance against a (very) possible injury to our fragile frontline (Diaw, Splitter, Duncan)

seeing that Ayers has the NBA talent of a ballboy, I say getting a bigman is a must IMO

[Mal]

Lets be clear. Adding Ilyasova and Neal will *not* catapult the Spurs' chances this season at all. It will at best be a lateral entry with some safeguards for the future if Diaw leaves. Thats all.

Anything that can slighty increase rotation and overall talent this team have is good trade. This team do not need a catapult, they are still in the mix.

[Mugen]

:lmao TPark

[ace3g]

I'd go with Young because a) he would be more suited vs Miami ...b) he has some ability to go off the dribble/attack the basket...c) has more of a back to the basket game; and I'm hoping in the playoffs that is when Pop will unveil "Operation Post-up" and expand the offense for Kawhi in that area, along with Diaw and possibly Young.

[objective]

Good God, that terrible Ayres>Rose comparison. So foul.

[objective]

here's a terrible nj.com piece that's built off of Amico's garbage. the writer laughably speculates about a trade for Thaddeus Young

http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2014/02/nba_trade_rumors_san_antonio_g.html


One possibility is a package of Boris Diaw and Kawhi Leonard for Young. Giving up Leonard is likely a long shot for the Spurs, but you have to give to get, and Leonard is the only young, valuable player on the Spurs roster. There have also been some rumblings that the Spurs would be willing to move Leonard, if the right deal came along.

[slick'81]

Lol Leonard for young

[cd98]

Lol Leonard for young

No Leonard and Diaw for Young.

[slick'81]

No Leonard and Diaw for Young.

Even more lol

[xellos88330]

I wouldn't mind Ilyasova if it was for scrap pieces. Then again.... that is why I am not a GM. :P

[TheGoldStandard]

I think he meant Malik rose was playing today.

[elemento]

:lol @ that NJ report

That's what happens when someone writes garbage based on garbage.

There's absolutely nothing on that 76ers roster that I'd consider trading Leonard for.

[Chomag]

yeah that trade rumor of KL for Young is freaking garbage. Young would be nice to have but he is not near as good a KL and would be stupid to give up for him.

[slick'81]

:lol @ that NJ report

That's what happens when someone writes garbage based on garbage.

There's absolutely nothing on that 76ers roster that I'd consider trading Leonard for.

not even MCW!?

[r0drig0lac]

[QUOTE = Elemento; 7138052] :lol@ esse relatório NJ Isso é o que acontece quando alguém escreve de lixo baseado em lixo. Não há absolutamente nada no que 76ers lista que eu consideraria negociação Leonard para [/ QUOTE].




MCW + Noel = :toast

[Kidd K]

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Neal is underrated here and somehow Beli and Mills are overrated...

Neal is a better passer than Mills and arguably a better shooter than Beli. Neither are plus defenders...

Yet Neal is the worst player of those three. I don't think Neal is underrated either. All he could do was shoot. He was great that, but what else did he do besides be the biggest hole in our defense every second he was on the floor?

I still remember the game where Neal put in like 18 in the 4th and everyone was all over his nuts for winning the game. . .yet having watched it, Neal got scored on and gave up nearly 18 during the same quarter. So even in Neal's supposed greatest moment, he was still getting crushed on D and negating most of his makes with said poor defense.

Mills on the other hand can also shoot. . .plays better D, handles the ball much better, passes much better. Belinelli just won the 3pt contest so obviously he's a good shooter too. What does Neal have that they don't besides being able to make crazy Kobe-esque 3pt shot jacks? Shots that tbh we don't want anyone taking anyway.

[weeks]

this neal vs belli garbage is just that.
pretending they're equal, belli is taller. i'll take him.
he won the damn 3pt contest! wtf did neal do?

[DPG21920]

I am shocked that Philly is struggling to get a first rounder for their assets (especially Young). I cant imagine SA being unwilling to give up their 1st rounder.

[DMC]

Amico said few days ago that Leonard could be traded which sounds a lot like pure BS so I would be careful with what he said.

Saying that, both Ilyasova and Young would makes sense for Spurs. I would likely go with Ilyasova: better contract, better rebounder, better shooter and will cost less assets to get.

Leonard is overrated. I don't believe he will ever be much more than he is now, which is a good defender and ok scorer, but nothing to build your franchise around despite Pop's sentiment.

[Chinook]

No Leonard and Diaw for Young.

That's almost as bad as Leonard and Diaw for Shumpert.

[cjw]

Both of them basically replaced him and his role and are doing a great job,not on board with that.

Agree with you there, but it's a way to sweeten the pot (Bucks want SOMETHING for Neal). We'd rather do the trade without Neal, but this just brings the two sides closer.

[TheGoldStandard]

I am shocked that Philly is struggling to get a first rounder for their assets (especially Young). I cant imagine SA being unwilling to give up their 1st rounder.

It comes from not wanting to give up Bonner, Ayres, mills, cojo or any combo with that pick

[Seventyniner]

If you're the Spurs, do you consider anything along the lines of Kawhi + 1st + filler (and maybe the rights to LJC, Bertans, or Hanga) for Ilyasova, Middleton, and John Henson? If the Spurs even had a decent other option to start at SF I'd say maybe, but the glaring lack of depth at that position, more than Kawhi's youth and talent, is what makes him nigh-untradable.

[TheGoldStandard]

If you're the Spurs, do you consider anything along the lines of Kawhi + 1st + filler (and maybe the rights to LJC, Bertans, or Hanga) for Ilyasova, Middleton, and John Henson? If the Spurs even had a decent other option to start at SF I'd say maybe, but the glaring lack of depth at that position, more than Kawhi's youth and talent, is what makes him nigh-untradable.

No i dont trade kawhi for throwing in Middleton or henson they are not playoff ready especially with this team and would screw up chemistry. Adding a role player like ilyasova is fine for spare parts.

[spurspokesman]

[QUOTE=Budkin;7137780]Just extend Bonner and Ayres to long term contracts and call it a day.[/QUOTE Send kawhi and a draft pick over for RJ and I'd say we had a he'll of a deadline.

[Chinook]

If you're the Spurs, do you consider anything along the lines of Kawhi + 1st + filler (and maybe the rights to LJC, Bertans, or Hanga) for Ilyasova, Middleton, and John Henson? If the Spurs even had a decent other option to start at SF I'd say maybe, but the glaring lack of depth at that position, more than Kawhi's youth and talent, is what makes him nigh-untradable.

You know we agree on Kawhi being overrated, but I don't like the trade at all. He's not a star, but he's in the Gallinari/Gordon level where you don't trade him for non-stars/non-high lottery picks. He's a legitimate starting SF, which is more than we can say for anyone who'd be on the roster after that trade.

Plus Leonard needs to come back strong so that he can get overrated more. If Duncan really does retire this season, Leonard (and Splitter and Parker) could definitely be on the block.

[Russo21]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lo2xt8o http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kgypmss if the bulls wanna tank http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lzmcqnz ilyasova wants out and the bucks get 2 expirings http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mmbkea9 2 expirings to a shit team http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lt7e27s our best chance is probably to find a shit team wanting to unload years of contracts for expirings cause we really have fuck all of interest that another team may want. doesn't really matter cause anything that happens will be a small move or nothing.

[Russo21]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=khofx6q This would surely put us in the title hunt

[Sean Cagney]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=khofx6q This would surely put us in the title hunt
:lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Back before he signed his latest contract with Milwaukee, I was really hoping the Spurs would make a run at Ilyasova: he's got Bonner range with a better in-between game, is a much better rebounder, and would be a perfect stretch 4 for the Spurs system. He is not a great defender, and he has been injury-plagued for the past couple of years, but I have a feeling that might be psychosomatic... put him on a contending team with a strong culture like the Spurs and I think he'd be a lot healthier and more motivated, although it is a risk. At 8mil, he is also quite expensive, but he would be a significant step up on Bonner, and we have plenty of salary space coming up in the next few years.

Then, on the weekend, I was walking up the mountain thinking about who the Spurs should be trying to target at this trade deadline given that I don't think we have quite enough to beat the other contenders at this point. Who did I settle on? Ilyasova and Thaddeous Young! And then came the article. ;)

If either could be had for our 1st pick, Bonner's expiring contract and pieces, we should jump at it. If we could have our choice Thad or Ersan I'm not sure which I would prefer for the Spurs - Thad is a better slasher and garbage guy with less range but a better defender, while Ilya can certainly stretch the floor. Who do you think would be a better fit?

(PS :lol :nope to the "Kawhi is over-rated" crew, who've obviously forgotten what we all saw in May/June 2013 - a superb player excelling at the very highest level of the game. Kid hasn't taken the leap this year, but that doesn't mean he won't some time in the next couple. Let's revisit this in two years, shall we? ;) )

[Spursfanfromafar]

You know we agree on Kawhi being overrated, but I don't like the trade at all. He's not a star, but he's in the Gallinari/Gordon level where you don't trade him for non-stars/non-high lottery picks. He's a legitimate starting SF, which is more than we can say for anyone who'd be on the roster after that trade.

Plus Leonard needs to come back strong so that he can get overrated more. If Duncan really does retire this season, Leonard (and Splitter and Parker) could definitely be on the block.

Idiot.

[wildchild]

Well, neither of them are true 3's shooter. Young was shooting 3' poorly -32,2% 3's this season, 32,9% 3's career-, he isn't an above-average defender, $28 million remaining on his contract -with player option to become an unrestricted free agent-.

Only the Sixers would really benefit from this trade, cap relief -Kawhi's rookie contract/ plus restricted free agent if they want to keep him nexts years- and add a promising young player

[elemento]

not even MCW!?

Nah

17ppg/6apg on 39%FG/47%TS, 29% from deep and 3.5 TOs per game. Even Cory Joseph would be able to put those inefficient stats if he had the freedom to play 35 min/game in a crap tanking team.

He is a decent prospect and that's all. Nothing special .

Got overrated because of his game against the Heat.

[Chinook]

Idiot.

Wow. Leave it to you to make another jerk comment. Disagree with it all you like, but there's nothing to say the Spurs would not blow it up next season if Duncan leaves, especially since Parker's been ambiguous about re-signing.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Wow. Leave it to you to make another jerk comment. Disagree with it all you like, but there's nothing to say the Spurs would not blow it up next season if Duncan leaves, especially since Parker's been ambiguous about re-signing.

Yeah. Leonard on the block.

Are you Sam Amico (in moron mode) in disguise?

[Spursfanfromafar]

The overrated Kawhi Leonard -

http://bkref.com/tiny/x8t8x

Third best in WS/48 for any Spur who has played in the playoffs after the useless Tim Duncan and the overrated David Robinson.

[Chinook]

Back before he signed his latest contract with Milwaukee, I was really hoping the Spurs would make a run at Ilyasova: he's got Bonner range with a better in-between game, is a much better rebounder, and would be a perfect stretch 4 for the Spurs system. He is not a great defender, and he has been injury-plagued for the past couple of years, but I have a feeling that might be psychosomatic... put him on a contending team with a strong culture like the Spurs and I think he'd be a lot healthier and more motivated, although it is a risk. At 8mil, he is also quite expensive, but he would be a significant step up on Bonner, and we have plenty of salary space coming up in the next few years.

Then, on the weekend, I was walking up the mountain thinking about who the Spurs should be trying to target at this trade deadline given that I don't think we have quite enough to beat the other contenders at this point. Who did I settle on? Ilyasova and Thaddeous Young! And then came the article. ;)

If either could be had for our 1st pick, Bonner's expiring contract and pieces, we should jump at it. If we could have our choice Thad or Ersan I'm not sure which I would prefer for the Spurs - Thad is a better slasher and garbage guy with less range but a better defender, while Ilya can certainly stretch the floor. Who do you think would be a better fit?

(PS :lol :nope to the "Kawhi is over-rated" crew, who've obviously forgotten what we all saw in May/June 2013 - a superb player excelling at the very highest level of the game. Kid hasn't taken the leap this year, but that doesn't mean he won't some time in the next couple. Let's revisit this in two years, shall we? ;) )

No one forgot the playoffs. He played really well, which is why he's not tradeable for much right now. But acting like scoring on Mike Miller makes him a star is exactly why people are saying he's overrated. Look at what Green did in that same series when he was not a defensive priority.

People cantw accept that Leonard is a role-player. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. He's a great championship piece, but he's not a franchise player.

[Chinook]

The overrated Kawhi Leonard -

http://bkref.com/tiny/x8t8x

Third best in WS/48 for any Spur who has played in the playoffs after the useless Tim Duncan and the overrated David Robinson.

And? Kawhi's not overrated because he's not good. Kawhi's overrated because he's not the budding superstar people think he is. I know that stats as well as you. I love win-shares, but I don't think they prove all that much by themselves.

Chris Anderson had a higher WS/48 last season. He averages more for his career than Leonard did last season, so it's not a matter of sample size. He had more than James did last season. Does that mean he's a star?

[Spursfanfromafar]

And? Kawhi's not overrated because he's not good. Kawhi's overrated because he's not the budding superstar people think he is. I know that stats as well as you. I love win-shares, but I don't think they prove all that much by themselves.

Chris Anderson had a higher WS/48 last season. He averages more for his career than Leonard did last season, so it's not a matter of sample size. He had more than James did last season. Does that mean he's a star?

Chris Anderson played spot minutes as a big feeding off of the Heat Big 3's play. Considering all he had to do was to finish plays (mostly unguarded as James/Wade/Bosh were double-teamed now and then) and considering that his offense consisted only of dunks and therefore a high TS%, it is obvious why his WS/48 is very high (for limited minutes).

Kawhi Leonard played the bulk of the series (nearly every damn important minute), guarded the best player of the planet better than any other player in the whole effing playoffs (well Jimmy Butler guarded him nearly as much, we should give him that), played offense when everyone thought he was an afterthought by draining in mid-range jumpers, three pointers, cutting across screens and doing his bit effectively in the Spurs' motion offense and almost won the game for us (but for a missed free throw). For a second year sophomore, who still hadnt' got plays run for him and was also being hampered by knee tendinitis, thats damn near great performance. It is only expected that a player who has clearly been driving up the curve quite smoothly both learning defense and offense is seen by many as a franchise mainstay.

Yet some call him over-rated.

[Baam]

Yet some call him over-rated.

Well Pop said he's gonna be the "face of the franchise" as in franchise player/first banana so yeah he's overrated.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Well Pop said he's gonna be the "face of the franchise" as in franchise player/first banana so yeah he's overrated.

He clearly meant that Leonard, as the best young player on the Spurs is going to be the face of the franchise. Thats not over-rating. Thats perspective.

[Seventyniner]

Well Pop said he's gonna be the "face of the franchise" as in franchise player/first banana so yeah he's overrated.

And Keith Bogans was the centerpiece of the defense. We all saw how that worked out.


He clearly meant that Leonard, as the best young player on the Spurs is going to be the face of the franchise. Thats not over-rating. Thats perspective.

Still, there's a big difference between saying that Kawhi's ceiling is "best player on a bad team" or that it is "2nd team All-NBA". Being the face of the franchise doesn't automatically make you a superstar.

[Chinook]

Double post.

[Chinook]

Chris Anderson played spot minutes as a big feeding off of the Heat Big 3's play. Considering all he had to do was to finish plays (mostly unguarded as James/Wade/Bosh were double-teamed now and then) and considering that his offense consisted only of dunks and therefore a high TS%, it is obvious why his WS/48 is very high (for limited minutes).

Kawhi Leonard played the bulk of the series (nearly every damn important minute), guarded the best player of the planet better than any other player in the whole effing playoffs (well Jimmy Butler guarded him nearly as much, we should give him that), played offense when everyone thought he was an afterthought by draining in mid-range jumpers, three pointers, cutting across screens and doing his bit effectively in the Spurs' motion offense and almost won the game for us (but for a missed free throw). For a second year sophomore, who still hadnt' got plays run for him and was also being hampered by knee tendinitis, thats damn near great performance. It is only expected that a player who has clearly been driving up the curve quite smoothly both learning defense and offense is seen by many as a franchise mainstay.

Yet some call him over-rated.

Andersen actually has had a superior WS/48 over the last few years. Sure, maybe he was feeding off his team's stars, but Leonard couldn't have been doing the same?

The rest of your post is just typical Leonard platitudes. He actually didn't play James nearly as well as people think. I charted his PPP during the Finals, and he was only slightly below-average (in a good way). Of course PPP doesn't account for ball-denial, which is Kawhi's best aspect on mand defense. He was the team's best James defender, but a lot of players contributed to keeping him down.

And then Kawhi hit open shots and scored when no one thought he would. Yeah, because no one thought he would. That's why the Heat didn't make him a defensive priority. That doesn't take credit away from Kawhi, but it shouldn't be used as evidence he was a star. Green had that same level of two-way play, blocking Wade on one end and hitting the three on the other.

Anyway, I think the Spurs will offer Leonard an extension, he'll take it and he'll be on the team at least a few more years. I think the Spurs believe in him. He'll probably be a franchise mainstay. But that's not where fans are putting him. They think he'll be a star, a top-15 player. The next leader after Tim. And I disagree. I don't see him being on the Paul George trajectory at all. He'll have to become a completely different player to be able to make deep playoff runs as the first option.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Anyway, I think the Spurs will offer Leonard an extension, he'll take it and he'll be on the team at least a few more years. I think the Spurs believe in him. He'll probably be a franchise mainstay. But that's not where fans are putting him. They think he'll be a star, a top-15 player. The next leader after Tim. And I disagree. I don't see him being on the Paul George trajectory at all. He'll have to become a completely different player to be able to make deep playoff runs as the first option.

Make up your mind. Your schizophrenic self just said about he "being on the block" after TD's tenure (which is why I called you an idiot) and now "he'll be on the team at least a few more years".

Kawhi has developed well in his first two years, enough for the Spurs to repose faith on him as another of those building blocks with which to construct their post-TD future. Considering that there is no else better than him in his cohort on the team, they have rightly called him the face of the franchise' future.

[ace3g]

Jeff McMenamin ‏@SixersBlog (https://twitter.com/SixersBlog) 3m (https://twitter.com/SixersBlog/status/435825308273364992) A person familiar to the #Spurs (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Spurs&src=hash) told me he doesn't think a trade for Thad will happen. The #Sixers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Sixers&src=hash) could get more for him in the offseason.

Jeff McMenamin ‏@SixersBlog (https://twitter.com/SixersBlog) 2m (https://twitter.com/SixersBlog/status/435825602944200704)
He also doesn't see how Turner would fit in with Parker, Manu and Marco. #Sixers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Sixers&src=hash)

[Chinook]

Make up your mind. Your schizophrenic self just said about he "being on the block" after TD's tenure (which is why I called you an idiot) and now "he'll be on the team at least a few more years".

Kawhi has developed well in his first two years, enough for the Spurs to repose faith on him as another of those building blocks with which to construct their post-TD future. Considering that there is no else better than him in his cohort on the team, they have rightly called him the face of the franchise' future.

I said he could be on the block, like they could entertain offers for him. I think they still want him, believe in him and intend to re-sign him. But do I think they're willing to max him out like a lot of posters think? Nope. They could look to trade him if he demands it this summer and Tim and Tony leave.

I don't think they have to call him anything. He's a player on the team that hovers between second and sixth best on any given night. That's pretty much true of all the core players. Being young doesn't make you the future, either. Who's the face of the Magic? The Bobcats? The Raptors? Hawks without Horford? Each of those teams have some recognizable names, but they have no clear face because there is no clear star. Some of those teams aren't even that bad. And some bad teams like the Pelicans and Kings have their franchise faces.

[Chinook]

Jeff McMenamin ‏@SixersBlog (https://twitter.com/SixersBlog) 3m (https://twitter.com/SixersBlog/status/435825308273364992) A person familiar to the #Spurs (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Spurs&src=hash) told me he doesn't think a trade for Thad will happen. The #Sixers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Sixers&src=hash) could get more for him in the offseason.

Jeff McMenamin ‏@SixersBlog (https://twitter.com/SixersBlog) 2m (https://twitter.com/SixersBlog/status/435825602944200704)
He also doesn't see how Turner would fit in with Parker, Manu and Marco. #Sixers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Sixers&src=hash)

Interesting that he mentioned the Spurs out of the relative blue. I agree Turner's a horrible fit, though. They can probably get more assets now, but they can get a better deal in July if Salary is to be considered.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I said he could be on the block, like they could entertain offers for him. I think they still want him, believe in him and intend to re-sign him. But do I think they're willing to max him out like a lot of posters think? Nope. They could look to trade him if he demands it this summer and Tim and Tony leave.

I don't think they have to call him anything. He's a player on the team that hovers between second and sixth best on any given night. That's pretty much true of all the core players. Being young doesn't make you the future, either. Who's the face of the Magic? The Bobcats? The Raptors? Hawks without Horford? Each of those teams have some recognizable names, but they have no clear face because there is no clear star. Some of those teams aren't even that bad. And some bad teams like the Pelicans and Kings have their franchise faces.

You are creating a strawman, as suits your schizophrenic self. I don't think the Spurs are going to max him out (heck, did they even max TD ever?). I think they think he will be a mainstay as a two way player who has learnt the Spurs system well and truly well and will continue to improve his role as plays are designed for him in the near future. That doesn't mean he is overrated. He is being brought up well by the Spurs. There is no way in hell, that he would be on the block, this season ( as you stupidly point out) or the next.

Kawhi is the Spurs' franchise face heading into the future as the big three wane. He is the bridge between the Spurs' glorious TD period and the unknown next, which doesnt' promise too bad, as the Spurs have planned it quite well with a good contract system, possibility to attract FAs and retaining their excellent FO. They can damn well call him what they want, unlike schizophrenics.

[Budkin]

Amico: "Spurs would love to Land Michael Jordan in his prime"

[Baam]

You are creating a strawman, as suits your schizophrenic self. I don't think the Spurs are going to max him out (heck, did they even max TD ever?). I think they think he will be a mainstay as a two way player who has learnt the Spurs system well and truly well and will continue to improve his role as plays are designed for him in the near future. That doesn't mean he is overrated. He is being brought up well by the Spurs. There is no way in hell, that he would be on the block, this season ( as you stupidly point out) or the next.

If TD retires at the end of the season then what? Everyone will be on the block to buy unprotected first to get a chance at Okafor/Embiid in the lottery and TP/Kawhi may be the only two that can get us unprotected first... Kawhi is not a centerpiece and we're not a FA destination so yeah he's on the block if Tim retires.


Kawhi is the Spurs' franchise face heading into the future as the big three wane. He is the bridge between the Spurs' glorious TD period and the unknown next, which doesnt' promise too bad, as the Spurs have planned it quite well with a good contract system, possibility to attract FAs and retaining their excellent FO. They can damn well call him what they want, unlike schizophrenics.

They haven't retained their best FO guys, Ferry who brought Green and Presti who was instrumental in drafting TP and others are gone... And small markets with no young superstar don't attract the big FAs...

[Chinook]

You are creating a strawman, as suits your schizophrenic self. I don't think the Spurs are going to max him out (heck, did they even max TD ever?). I think they think he will be a mainstay as a two way player who has learnt the Spurs system well and truly well and will continue to improve his role as plays are designed for him in the near future. That doesn't mean he is overrated. He is being brought up well by the Spurs. There is no way in hell, that he would be on the block, this season ( as you stupidly point out) or the next.

Kawhi is the Spurs' franchise face heading into the future as the big three wane. He is the bridge between the Spurs' glorious TD period and the unknown next, which doesnt' promise too bad, as the Spurs have planned it quite well with a good contract system, possibility to attract FAs and retaining their excellent FO. They can damn well call him what they want, unlike schizophrenics.

They maxed out Duncan twice (there was no max when he was drafted) and Ginobili once. I wouldn't expect you to know that, since you don't understand the cap at all.

I'm not creating a straw man. If anything you are. I said Kawhi is overrated. You said he's not. I said he is by people calling him a star when he's just a productive player. You said he's a star because stats and platitudes. I said those are overvalued. You said they show a productive player, I agreed and said he wasn't a star. Now, you're pretending like I'm saying he's not productive or a nice player to have around, and you're calling me a schizo for saying, "The Spurs want to keep Leonard and probably will, but they may end up teading him if his value gets overrated some more."

When it comes down to it, I wasn't talking to you. If you don't think Leonard is a superstar in the making, I don't mean you're overrating him. You quoted me (jerkily) when I said Kawhi is overrated because he's not a star. But you didn't know that last part because you didn't have the slightest idea what I meant. So after all this debate, you pretty much agree with me, but you don't want to admit it because it will make you seem foolish for criticizing my initial statement.

Seventyniner knew what I meant, which is why I said 'you know that we agree on Kawhi'. Just like I said 'we've talked about how I feel about the 2015 FA period', to you. Don't criticize someone for thwirw position without knowledge of that position.

[Chinook]

You are creating a strawman, as suits your schizophrenic self. I don't think the Spurs are going to max him out (heck, did they even max TD ever?). I think they think he will be a mainstay as a two way player who has learnt the Spurs system well and truly well and will continue to improve his role as plays are designed for him in the near future. That doesn't mean he is overrated. He is being brought up well by the Spurs. There is no way in hell, that he would be on the block, this season ( as you stupidly point out) or the next.

Kawhi is the Spurs' franchise face heading into the future as the big three wane. He is the bridge between the Spurs' glorious TD period and the unknown next, which doesnt' promise too bad, as the Spurs have planned it quite well with a good contract system, possibility to attract FAs and retaining their excellent FO. They can damn well call him what they want, unlike schizophrenics.

They maxed out Duncan twice (there was no max when he was drafted) and Ginobili once. I wouldn't expect you to know that, since you don't understand the cap at all.

I'm not creating a straw man. If anything you are. I said Kawhi is overrated. You said he's not. I said he is by people calling him a star when he's just a productive player. You said he's a star because stats and platitudes. I said those are overvalued. You said they show a productive player, I agreed and said he wasn't a star. Now, you're pretending like I'm saying he's not productive or a nice player to have around, and you're calling me a schizo for saying, "The Spurs want to keep Leonard and probably will, but they may end up teading him if his value gets overrated some more."

When it comes down to it, I wasn't talking to you. If you don't think Leonard is a superstar in the making, I don't mean you're overrating him. You quoted me (jerkily) when I said Kawhi is overrated because he's not a star. But you didn't know that last part because you didn't have the slightest idea what I meant. So after all this debate, you pretty much agree with me, but you don't want to admit it because it will make you seem foolish for criticizing my initial statement.

Seventyniner knew what I meant, which is why I said 'you know that we agree on Kawhi'. Just like I said 'we've talked about how I feel about the 2015 FA period', to you. Don't criticize someone for their position without knowledge of that position.

[DPG21920]

Although we knew it was a stretch disappointing to hear a major target (Young) seems unattainable. Doesn't bode well for Spurs chances to use their assets to get a trade done. Makes the off season look worse if true.

[TheGoldStandard]

Although we knew it was a stretch disappointing to hear a major target (Young) seems unattainable. Doesn't bode well for Spurs chances to use their assets to get a trade done. Makes the off season look worse if true.

Locking up Bonner was a priority... And giving Tiago 10m the first year... I mean Portland could have taken him... Then they would have won 73 games

[objective]

spurs never gave Ginobili a max deal. double digits a year, sure, but it wasn't the max.

[superjames1992]

The overrated Kawhi Leonard -

http://bkref.com/tiny/x8t8x

Third best in WS/48 for any Spur who has played in the playoffs after the useless Tim Duncan and the overrated David Robinson.

Good stuff, though it's way too small of a sample size to draw any conclusions.

[AFBlue]

Interesting that he mentioned the Spurs out of the relative blue. I agree Turner's a horrible fit, though. They can probably get more assets now, but they can get a better deal in July if Salary is to be considered.

A "person familiar to the Spurs" could be me. I'm pretty sure that's a throw away tweet.