Bundy ranch situation in Nevada

[ChumpDumper]

Fairly serious is all I will say about the matter. Received a similar PM on another site as well.

Now it sounds like pure bullshit.

[Winehole23]

I was told not to discuss any of it and can no longer access my account.what were you told not to discuss and why would you care?

[SnakeBoy]

Well my only position on this topic was that I oppose the aggressive police tactics that were being used. After listening to Hannity interview with Bundy and his sons I'm going to change my mind. I don't think there is any other way to deal with them...these dudes are fucking nuts.

[Rogue]

http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/sheriff-feds-strategize-for-raid-on-ranch/


SHERIFF: FEDS STRATEGIZE FOR 'RAID' ON RANCH

Warning follows threat from Harry Reid that grazing dispute 'not over'

Published: 4 hours ago

The executive director of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (http://cspoa.org/contact/) says his sources inside the federal government warn that Washington’s weekend retreat in a dispute over grazing land in Nevada was only a move to distract attention and diffuse tensions, because a raid on the family’s ranch still is planned.




And there probably would be violence involved, said Richard Mack, the former sheriff of Grisham County, Ariz.
“I don’t think it would be possible” to launch a raid without violence, he told WND Monday. “I don’t think the Bundys would lie down and be taken.”
He cited the vow by Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., that the confrontation was far from over, despite the weekend’s retreat by armed gunmen working for federal agencies.
Reid on Monday told KRNV-TV in Reno: “It’s not over. We can’t have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it’s not over.”
The grazing-land conflict has been developing for decades. (http://wnd.com/?p=739251)
Cliven Bundy, who ranches in Clark County, and members of his extended family have grazed cattle on land there for more than a century. He stopped paying federal grazing fees years ago, contending his operation existed before the federal government was there.
But the standoff reached a boiling point one week ago as hundreds of federal agents and allies surrounded Bundy’s ranch and were faced with citizen resistance, both armed and unarmed.
The Associated Press said the U.S. Bureau of Land Management decided over the weekend to stop rounding up Bundy’s cattle and release animals agents already had seized.
BLM chief Neil Kornze said in a statement: “Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concerns about the safety of employees and members of the public.”
Mack, a longtime sheriff, told WND that Reid’s statements are beyond the pale.
“That kind of stupidity, where he puts federal regulations and policies of bureaucrats ahead of a family in his state that has done no wrong or committed a crime,” Mack said.
He charged that it is Reid who is destroying his own state’s ranching industry as well as the U.S. Constitution. The sheriff chided the senator for making statements about abiding by laws.
“Isn’t that amazing? The biggest crook in Washington,” Mack said.
On the issue of a raid, he said: “That’s what we have heard. It’s not confirmed. People we had on the inside told us the BLM still is considering raiding the Bundy ranch. We’re going to keep in touch with them, protect them, pray for them.”
Details that are uncovered will be posted on the CSPOA website (http://cspoa.org/contact/), he said.
Mack said his organization is part of an effort to save America.
“Yes, America is in deep, deep trouble. The good news is that there is hope,” Mack said. “We do not have to stand by and watch while America is destroyed from within. If our counties, cities, and states and all local officers keep their oaths to protect us from tyranny, we can win this battle to take our country back.”
As WND reported (http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/armed-militias-rally-in-support-of-nevada-rancher/), an estimated 200 armed officers of the BLM had been deployed to Bundy’s property in Bunkerville, Nev., 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas, charging the rancher has been in violation of a law that aims to protect an endangered desert tortoise. The BLM also said Bundy owes more than $1 million in grazing fees to the federal government.
But Bundy found support from the governor and other prominent political leaders along with a host of protesters from other states, including fellow cattle ranchers and private armed militias.
A Montana militia member, Jim Lardy, told KLAS-TV in Las Vegas his group, Operation Mutual Aid, was prepared to “provide armed response.”
He said he was not afraid to shoot, if necessary.
“They have guns. We need guns to protect ourselves from the tyrannical government,” Lardy said.
Other militia members were joining him, he said: “There is many more coming.”
Nevada’s Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval said the federal government’s tactics allowed the tensions to nearly erupt in armed violence.
“No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans,” Sandoval said. “The BLM needs to reconsider its approach to this matter and act accordingly.”
Cliven Bundy’s son, Ammon Bundy, told WND earlier (http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/feds-charged-with-killing-cattle-in-nevada-range-war/) that federal authorities had not been merely relocating the cattle but were engaged in actions that killed some animals.
“They are flying helicopters over the herd to chase them,” Ammon Bundy said. “It was over 90 degrees here today, and the cattle can’t run very far in this heat before collapsing. This is especially true for the young calves. We have a lot of them being born because it is springtime, and they don’t have the strength to keep up with their mothers when they are running. The cattle then become overheated and die.”
Cliven Bundy is the last rancher operating in Clark County, where he’s been grazing his cattle on a 600,000-acre portion of land managed by the BLM called Gold Butte. His family, whose ties to the land go back to the 1880s, has been engaged in a dispute since 1993 with the Bureau of Land Management over long-established cattle-grazing rights.
After years of wrangling in the courts, BLM last week secured a federal court order declaring Bundy’s herd to be “trespass cattle” and began removing the animals.
Ammon Bundy said he was with a group of about 50 people “peacefully protesting the removal of the cattle” when “suddenly, 14 units with Rangers came off the mountain – 13 of them were armed ranger vehicles with two rangers per unit.”
He said the protesters went over to see what was in a dump truck, “because we were afraid this might have been a rendering vehicle, and we wanted to know what was in the back of the truck.”
See video of the confrontation with Ammon Bundy and protesters:



The rangers got out of their vehicles and the conflict escalated, he said.
“Things got pretty ugly for awhile. They threw a 65-year-old woman on the ground, they tased me twice and they had dogs out there.”

[boutons_deux]

"aggressive police tactics that were being used"

govt wanted his animals off the property, he wouldn't do it, so the govt did. Not very aggressive, except when the protesters forced the issue.

I wonder if the IRS can garnish his bank account, income to recover the $1M.

I guess the militia assholes think they won and be encouraged to more of the same.

[ElNono]

Well my only position on this topic was that I oppose the aggressive police tactics that were being used. After listening to Hannity interview with Bundy and his sons I'm going to change my mind. I don't think there is any other way to deal with them...these dudes are fucking nuts.

That's the gist I got when he was saying he would pay the fees to the city but not the feds... you might not like the federal government, but when your stance is that they have no authority over you, then yeah, pretty kookoo

[SnakeBoy]

That's the gist I got when he was saying he would pay the fees to the city but not the feds... you might not like the federal government, but when your stance is that they have no authority over you, then yeah, pretty kookoo

yeah they think Nevada is a sovereign nation and the United States is a foreign government.

[Winehole23]

The BLM withdraws and the Bundys get the media megaphone on Hannity for their sovereign citizen message.

[Winehole23]

Meanwhile, shadowy G-men warn TSA to stop posting on a sports-related bulletin board...

[Winehole23]

yeah they think Nevada is a sovereign nation and the United States is a foreign government.
from the Nevada State Constitution:


  Purpose of government; paramount allegiance to United States.  All political power is inherent in the people[.] Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair[,] subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existance [existence], and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/const/nvconst.html

[boutons_deux]

dickless gun fellators show their wonderful dicklessness

"We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front.

If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/04/15/3426702/militant-former-sheriff-planned-to-put-women-up-at-the-front-if-violence-erupted-in-ranch-showdown-with-feds/

[boutons_deux]

Here are three ways that the federal government might ensure that Bundy and at least some of his armed supporters are brought to justice:

1) Contempt of Court:

The normal sanction when a person subject to a court order refuses to comply with it is contempt of court. Contempt, according to a manual provided to federal prosecutors, is “an act of disobedience or disrespect towards the judicial branch of the government, or an interference with its orderly process (http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00752.htm).” By law, federal courts may “punish by fine or imprisonment, or both” when someone engages in “[d]isobedience or resistance to its lawful writ, process, order, rule, decree, or command (http://uscode.regstoday.com/18USC_CHAPTER21.aspx).”

As a general rule, courts must “exercise the least possible power to obtain the desired result (http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00784.htm),” meaning that a federal judge should not issue a sweeping contempt sanction when lesser sanction will suffice to ensure that the person subject to contempt proceedings complies with the court’s order. Nevertheless, the fact that Bundy was willing to defy a court order for 20 years — and that he could rally supporters willing to put up armed resistance to federal law enforcement to his cause — suggests that he would simply ignore any fines that a court imposed on him. A judge may decide that the best way to convince Bundy that the federal government exists is to jail him until he agrees to comply with the court’s order.

2) Criminal Charges for Threats To Federal Officers

Federal law provides that anyone who “threatens to assault, kidnap, or murder (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/115), a United States official, a United States judge [or] a Federal law enforcement officer . . . with intent to impede, intimidate, or interfere with such official, judge, or law enforcement officer while engaged in the performance of official duties, or with intent to retaliate against such official, judge, or law enforcement officer on account of the performance of official duties” may be fined or imprisoned for up to 10 years (although a threat to assault carries a maximum sentence of only 6 years). So, if Bundy or his supporters threatened federal officials or law enforcement officers who were enforcing the court order against him, they could have committed a serious crime.

There is one big caveat to this approach, however. Although the First Amendment permits some laws banning threatening language, under the “True Threat” Doctrine, these bans are only permitted when they target “those statements where the speaker means to communicate a serious expression of an intent to commit an act of unlawful violence to a particular individual or group of individuals (http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2729037874515332053&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr).” Moreover, at least one older Supreme Court case suggests that threatening language is not a “true threat” when it is made using conditional language (http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/true-threats). Thus, for example, if Bundy said something like “if you Feds don’t get off this land in two days, I will kill every last one of you,” that may not constitute a true threat because he placed a condition on what the federal officials would have to do before he killed them.

Among legal scholars, the current state of the True Threat Doctrine is widely viewed as incoherent (http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/true-threats), so there is some uncertainty about which kinds of threatening statements could form the basis of a prosecution against Bundy and his supporters.

3) Criminal Charges Against Militia Members Who Brought Guns To Nevada

Another federal law provides that “[w]hoever transports or manufactures for transportation in commerce any firearm (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/231), or explosive or incendiary device, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be used unlawfully in furtherance of a civil disorder” may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years. This statute could potentially form the basis for criminal charges against some of the militia members who traveled to Nevada with their guns in order to support Bundy. In order to convict someone charged under this law, federal prosecutors would need to prove that the militia member transported their gun with reason to know that it would be used “unlawfully in furtherance of a civil disorder,” so this statute could not be used against someone who had no reason to suspect that they were traveling towards anything other than a peaceful protest. A civil disorder is defined as “any public disturbance involving acts of violence by assemblages of three or more persons (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/232), which causes an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual.”

At least some of Bundy’s supporters made statements to the press suggesting that they fully intended to use their weapons to further such a disorder. One militia member, for example, said that he was at the ranch to provide “armed response,” adding that “[w]e need guns to protect ourselves from the tyrannical government (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/04/11/3425659/armed-right-wing-militias-descend-on-nevada-to-help-rancher-defy-court-order/).”

Similarly, a message purporting to be from one militia organization that was published on several right-wing websites announced that “[w]e have made the decision to mobilize to Nevada” and concluded with a fairly explicit statement suggesting that the purpose of this mobilization was to spark a deadly conflict (http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2014/04/09/operation-mutual-aid-militias-mobilize-to-nevada/):

:lol “All men are mortal, most pass simply because it is their time, a few however are blessed with the opportunity to chose their time in performance of duty.” :lol

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/04/14/3426222/militia-rancher-behind-bars/

Fox loves these lawless asshole martyrs, while calling Obama lawless.

[baseline bum]

dickless gun fellators show their wonderful dicklessness

"We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front.

If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/04/15/3426702/militant-former-sheriff-planned-to-put-women-up-at-the-front-if-violence-erupted-in-ranch-showdown-with-feds/



LOL these patriots using Al Qaeda tactics

[Rogue]

LOL these patriots using Al Qaeda tactics
Smart choice, pussies never could beat al Qaeda tbh.

[Winehole23]

But let's look at Bundy's larger point, that the federal government shouldn't control 87 percent of Nevada and 60 percent of the 12 states in the West. This includes many of the country's most beautiful national parks, forests, and wilderness areas, but also huge swathes of scrub lands, timber forest, and areas with mineral and energy wealth.


http://media.theweek.com/img/generic/Public-Lands-Western-US.jpg
Wikimedia Commons

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Public-Lands-Western-US.png)
It is sort of an accident of history and because of the whims of Congress that the federal government controls all that land. In the mid-1800s, lawmakers passed laws encouraging settlers to colonize the West, with the idea of carving up the new U.S. territories into privately held parcels. Starting with Theodore Roosevelt, though, U.S. lawmakers started to conserve public lands for the public with the creation of the national parks.


In 1934, Congress created the U.S. Grazing Service to manage cattle and sheep grazing on public lands, and in 1946 the Grazing Service was combined with the General Land Office to create the BLM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management). In 1976, Congress passed the Federal Land Policy and Management Act, formally setting aside federal public lands for multiple public uses, including recreation, ranching, and mining. The BLM, Forest Service, and National Park Service have been juggling those competing interests ever since.


For Bundy to have the right to graze his cattle in Gold Butte/Bunkerville area, the U.S. government would have to sell him the land, cede it to Nevada, get the area's endangered species removed from the endangered list, and/or lose to Bundy in a court of law. What seems certain is that this standoff isn't over. Even if Bundy and the BLS reach an amicable settlement, the inherent conflict will always fester between environmentalists and hikers who want to preserve the land and ranchers, miners, foresters, and motor-vehicle enthusiasts who want to be a little rougher on the public lands.

http://theweek.com/article/index/259918/the-contentious-policy-at-the-heart-of-cliven-bundys-armed-standoff-with-the-government

[Winehole23]

LOL these patriots using Al Qaeda tacticsfreeloading, America hating takers with a victim mentality expect special treatment from the government.

[Winehole23]

and get it

[boutons_deux]

Why Bundy Ranch Thinks America's Sheriffs Can Disarm The Feds


http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_365,w_652/hr3meks7vjomaohjzdse.jpg

Nevada cattle rancher Cliven Bundy, whose dispute with the Bureau of Land Management spurred a tense standoff between armed anti-government activists and federal officials over the weekend, had some strikingly specific directions for sheriffs across the country Monday night.

“Disarm the federal bureaucrats," Bundy said (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/harry-reid-bundy-ranch-standoff) in an interview with Fox News's Sean Hannity. He had been asked to respond to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's assertion that the Bundy Ranch standoff (as it is now officially known on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff)) was "not over."

Bundy had already asked (http://www.infowars.com/cliven-bundy-calls-on-sheriff-to-start-arresting-blm-feds/) his local sheriff to arrest the BLM officials who were rounding up his cattle, but he directed his new message to "every county sheriff in the United States."

Bundy's statement brought to the forefront a theory that some on the far right have held for decades: that local sheriffs are ordained with an immense amount of power, going beyond that of even federal authorities.

In the Bundy Ranch dispute, that theory is the driving ideology of some of the groups that have rallied to the rancher's side. Those include the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association and the Oath Keepers, whose members are law enforcement officials and military who have pledged to defend the Constitution against government overreach.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/bundy-ranch-constitutional-sheriffs-oath-keepers?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

Seems to be a lot sickos, deranged, damaged people, sadists, killers, gun fellators, etc who spend their lives in the military or law enforcement, or prison guards.

one of America's best ever sheriffs:

http://www.craveonline.com/images/stories/2011/2013/January/Film/Blazing_Saddles_Cleavon_Little.jpg

[Th'Pusher]

Where the white women at?

[Th'Pusher]

Facts that disprove conspiracy theory about Harry Reid, Cliven Bundy and solar power


STEVE MARCUS
Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy, left, and U.S. Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., right.


By Karoun Demirjian (contact)
Thursday, April 17, 2014 | 2 a.m.


WASHINGTON —

JUSTIN BOWEN
Laughlin and Bullhead City, Ariz., as seen in 2011.


Future Uncertain in Bundy-BLM Dispute
Launch slideshow »
The conspiracy theory about Sen. Harry Reid started soon after the Cliven Bundy story went national.




The theory: The Senate majority leader masterminded the takeover of Bundy’s cattle in Gold Butte to clear land for a solar facility that Chinese company ENN hoped to build in Southern Nevada. That thought appears to have originated at the blog Godfather Politics and was picked up by writers in more mainstream conservative media outlets, such as NewsMax and the Washington Times. The story also suggested that Reid had his former aide, Neil Kornze, do his dirty work as the week-old Bureau of Land Management director.


Reid’s spokeswoman, Kristen Orthman, said any connection between Bundy and the solar project is “bogus.” She added: “People find anything to label him as, or to connect things to that aren’t connectable. … If it wasn’t this, they would be talking about something else.”


It’s true that Reid had been working on a solar project in Nevada. But based on the facts, the rest of the theory doesn’t pass the smell test. Here’s why:


Geography: Bundy’s ranch is in Bunkerville, about 75 miles northeast of Las Vegas. The land that Reid identified for the solar plant was about 90 miles south of Las Vegas in Laughlin. That puts the Bundy ranch and the solar plant site about a three-hour drive apart. They’re simply not in the same part of the state.


Another project comes close. But not that close: Bundy’s home in the Mojave desert is closer to the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, a corridor that has been slated for renewable energy development. The BLM is planning a mitigation strategy that may stretch toward the area where Bundy has been grazing his cows. But even there, the maps don’t match up closely enough to suggest that Bundy’s specific grazing land was the intended site of a solar facility. Also, the Chinese company ENN had not been planning a facility in the Dry Lake area.


Where Reid’s agenda and Bundy’s cattle grazing do overlap: Bundy’s cattle have been grazing on land that Reid and Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Nev., have targeted for future wilderness protections. Both Reid and Horsford have filed legislation to turn the Gold Butte area into a national conservation area. But this is entirely separate from the solar project. A conservation status discourages development, and it’s near impossible to greenlight a solar project on conservation land.


The start of the Chinese solar project: Reid went to China in 2011 to lock down the deal. The ENN Mojave Energy project was supposed to help yank Southern Nevada’s flailing economy out of the recession and into the foreground of renewable energy development in America. Clark County fast-tracked the required reviews and approvals. But construction never started.


Where it got stuck: In June 2013, ENN said it was dumping the project because the “market will not support a project of this scale and nature at this time.” So right now, there is no massive Chinese-backed solar project in the works and certainly not one that requires the removal of Bundy’s cows.


The timelines don’t line up: Bundy’s battle with the BLM started in 1993 when he stopped paying his grazing fees, 18 years before anyone talked about putting Chinese money into the Nevada desert for renewable energy. Talk about the Chinese solar project started in 2011 and ended in 2013. And the Bundy-BLM confrontation came this month, long after the solar project died.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/17/facts-disprove-conspiracy-theory-about-sen-harry-r/

[boutons_deux]

appears to have originated at the blog Godfather Politics and was picked up by writers in more mainstream conservative media outlets, such as NewsMax and the Washington Times.

:lol


"mainstream conservative" oxy-maran :lol

[RedStripe]

Facts that disprove conspiracy theory about Harry Reid, Cliven Bundy and solar power


STEVE MARCUS
Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy, left, and U.S. Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., right.


By Karoun Demirjian (contact)
Thursday, April 17, 2014 | 2 a.m.


WASHINGTON —

JUSTIN BOWEN
Laughlin and Bullhead City, Ariz., as seen in 2011.


Future Uncertain in Bundy-BLM Dispute
Launch slideshow »
The conspiracy theory about Sen. Harry Reid started soon after the Cliven Bundy story went national.




The theory: The Senate majority leader masterminded the takeover of Bundy’s cattle in Gold Butte to clear land for a solar facility that Chinese company ENN hoped to build in Southern Nevada. That thought appears to have originated at the blog Godfather Politics and was picked up by writers in more mainstream conservative media outlets, such as NewsMax and the Washington Times. The story also suggested that Reid had his former aide, Neil Kornze, do his dirty work as the week-old Bureau of Land Management director.


Reid’s spokeswoman, Kristen Orthman, said any connection between Bundy and the solar project is “bogus.” She added: “People find anything to label him as, or to connect things to that aren’t connectable. … If it wasn’t this, they would be talking about something else.”


It’s true that Reid had been working on a solar project in Nevada. But based on the facts, the rest of the theory doesn’t pass the smell test. Here’s why:


Geography: Bundy’s ranch is in Bunkerville, about 75 miles northeast of Las Vegas. The land that Reid identified for the solar plant was about 90 miles south of Las Vegas in Laughlin. That puts the Bundy ranch and the solar plant site about a three-hour drive apart. They’re simply not in the same part of the state.


Another project comes close. But not that close: Bundy’s home in the Mojave desert is closer to the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, a corridor that has been slated for renewable energy development. The BLM is planning a mitigation strategy that may stretch toward the area where Bundy has been grazing his cows. But even there, the maps don’t match up closely enough to suggest that Bundy’s specific grazing land was the intended site of a solar facility. Also, the Chinese company ENN had not been planning a facility in the Dry Lake area.


Where Reid’s agenda and Bundy’s cattle grazing do overlap: Bundy’s cattle have been grazing on land that Reid and Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Nev., have targeted for future wilderness protections. Both Reid and Horsford have filed legislation to turn the Gold Butte area into a national conservation area. But this is entirely separate from the solar project. A conservation status discourages development, and it’s near impossible to greenlight a solar project on conservation land.


The start of the Chinese solar project: Reid went to China in 2011 to lock down the deal. The ENN Mojave Energy project was supposed to help yank Southern Nevada’s flailing economy out of the recession and into the foreground of renewable energy development in America. Clark County fast-tracked the required reviews and approvals. But construction never started.


Where it got stuck: In June 2013, ENN said it was dumping the project because the “market will not support a project of this scale and nature at this time.” So right now, there is no massive Chinese-backed solar project in the works and certainly not one that requires the removal of Bundy’s cows.


The timelines don’t line up: Bundy’s battle with the BLM started in 1993 when he stopped paying his grazing fees, 18 years before anyone talked about putting Chinese money into the Nevada desert for renewable energy. Talk about the Chinese solar project started in 2011 and ended in 2013. And the Bundy-BLM confrontation came this month, long after the solar project died.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/17/facts-disprove-conspiracy-theory-about-sen-harry-r/


You sir Mr. Pusha are a silly man!


"Another project comes close. But not that close: Bundy’s home in the Mojave desert is closer to the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, a corridor that has been slated for renewable energy development. The BLM is planning a mitigation strategy that may stretch toward the area where Bundy has been grazing his cows. But even there, the maps don’t match up closely enough to suggest that Bundy’s specific grazing land was the intended site of a solar facility. Also, the Chinese company ENN had not been planning a facility in the Dry Lake area."

Facts? This guy claims the maps don't match up yet the BLM specifically names Bundy and the Gold Butte land on their own page.

"Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle."

http://archive.today/nvlzr#selection-213.0-213.313

From the BLM's own page, mysteriously deleted but thankfully found.

While I agree that this dispute was not directly tied to the Chinese solar deal as it is dead, it looks to most certainly be tied to the Dry Lake solar project. If you don't think Reid has his hands in this I don't know what to tell you other than you are being naive. Reid has been tied to unethical deals in Vegas time and time again, this time isn't different.

[RedStripe]

The timelines don’t line up: Bundy’s battle with the BLM started in 1993 when he stopped paying his grazing fees, 18 years before anyone talked about putting Chinese money into the Nevada desert for renewable energy. Talk about the Chinese solar project started in 2011 and ended in 2013. And the Bundy-BLM confrontation came this month, long after the solar project died.


Want to see a timeline that matches up?

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/nevadan-named-blm-chief/

[RedStripe]

Facts that disprove conspiracy theory about Harry Reid, Cliven Bundy and solar power

Mr. Pusha your facts article loses credibility when the same site posts a story like this.

The world through militia eyes
http://m.lvsun.com/news/2014/apr/20/world-through-militia-eyes/

The Las Vegas sun is not a reputable source Mr. Pusha you should be ashamed claiming such as their bias is obvious.

[Wild Cobra]

I think it's bullshit the DMV charges $50 per car for a card and a license to drive my car every 2 years....
Oregon car registration renewal is $77 + $21 DEQ fee. Drivers license renewal is $60.

[ElNono]

Oregon car registration renewal is $77 + $21 DEQ fee. Drivers license renewal is $60.

Here registration depends on the value of your vehicle, IIRC. Driver's license renewal is $24 though, just did mine.

[boutons_deux]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3745/13927764696_d93961c3f7_o.jpg

Ironically, if his argument prevailed he would be subject to paying the state of Nevada for grazing rights at $15.50 (http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Grazing_Fees/gf_hm.asp) per head of cattle, rather than the federal rate of $1.35 (http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html).

After searching for the distinctive cover of the document in Bundy's pocket, the publisher (http://www.nccs.net/products/other-products/pocket-constitution.php) turned out to be the innocuously named National Center for Constitutional Studies (NCCS). However, the NCCS is not the commendable educational organization it purports to be.

It began life as the Freemen Institute, a vehicle for the far-right, Mormon, anti-commie, history revisionist, W. Cleon Skousen.

Skousen taught that the Constitution was inspired by a God who intended America to be a Christian nation. He also professed the canon of white supremicism that Anglo-Saxons are descended from a lost tribe of Israel. The Southern Poverty Law Centerchronicled (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2011/spring/fringe-mormon-group-makes-myths-with-glenn-becks-help) the NCCS curriculum based on Skousen's philosophy saying that he...


"...demonized the federal regulatory agencies, arguing for the abolition of everything from the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to the Environmental Protection Agency. He wanted to repeal the minimum wage, smash unions, nullify anti-discrimination laws, sell off public lands and national parks, end the direct election of senators, kill the income tax and the estate tax, knock down state-level walls separating church and state, and, of course, raze the Federal Reserve System."

Sound familiar? Skousen's warped ideology was syncs up perfectly with the Tea Party and other purveyors of fringe fear mongering like politi-vangelist Glenn Beck, who literally begged his audience to read Skousen's book, "The 5000 Year Leap," which Beck said was "divinely inspired."

The conspiracy-obsessed NCCS shares with Beck and Bundy an animosity toward government that exceeds the boundaries of common sense.

Along with Skousen's books, the NCCS website features anti-UN screeds ("Confronting Agenda 21"), treatises on wingnut electoral reforms ("Repeal 17 Now!"), harbingers of one-world government ("The Rise of Global Governance"), and appeals for institutionalized theocracy ("America's God & Country"). No wonder Bundy was sporting a version of the Constitution that was distributed by the NCCS, an organization that advances ultra-conservative conspiracy theories and promotes anti-government hostility.

The threatening hysteria and deception emanating from Bundy, and the armed militias that came to his defense, are emblematic of the apocalyptic doctrine of the NCCS. It is no accident that Bundy's Constitution was provided by a group whose teachings have been denounced by historians and constitutional scholars. But it does explain the extremism and advocacy of violence that Bundy et al have espoused. All of this makes it all the more inappropriate and irresponsible for Bundy to be hailed as hero by conservative media outlets like the National Review and Fox News who, just last week, compared Bundy to Gandhi (http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=12483) in a feat of epic cognitive collapse.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/20/1293342/-EXPOSED-The-Source-Of-Cliven-Bundy-s-Crackpot-Constitutionalism?detail=email

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, that damn US constitution is definitely some radical right wing subversive shit.

[pgardn]

Yeah, that damn US constitution is definitely some radical right wing subversive shit.

Yes.

Considering it was intended for Anglo Saxons descended from a lost tribe of Israel.

[boutons_deux]

Yeah, that damn US constitution is definitely some radical right wing subversive shit.

As interpreted as an unchangeable "dead document" by the extreme right-wing anti-American Repug SCOTUS and Christian supremacists, yes THEIR Constitution is "radical right wing subversive shit"

[CosmicCowboy]

As interpreted as an unchangeable "dead document" by the extreme right-wing anti-American Repug SCOTUS and Christian supremacists, yes THEIR Constitution is "radical right wing subversive shit"

I can't even imagine what Boos version of the constitution would look like.

[boutons_deux]

I can't even imagine what Boos version of the constitution would look like.

no surprise, your imagination is full of Repug shit.

[Winehole23]

Yeah, that damn US constitution is definitely some radical right wing subversive shit.the US Constitution relates to Bundy/BLM dispute how, please?

[Winehole23]

be specific, if you can. Nevada was a US Territory (and a state) before Bundy settled there. also, the NV State constitution would appear to put his claims to Federal land to bed even if he had settled there prior to statehood.

[boutons_deux]

Burning Man organizer plans anything-goes ‘Bundyfest’ to mock scofflaw rancher


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Sean-Shealy.png


Some of the organizers of the annual Burning Man festival are planning an event (http://crooksandliars.com/2014/04/come-celebrate-bundy-fest-2014) aimed at mocking the claims of a Nevada rancher who refuses to pay government-mandated fees for using federal lands.

“For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada,” said the event’s organizers on a Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/www.bundyfest.org). “But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!”

Progressive activist Sean Shealy said Bundyfest, which will be held across the road from Bundy’s ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada, for one month starting on Sept. 5.

That’s just after the conclusion of the Burning Man festival, and Shealy hopes attendees will travel south to see 240 bands perform 24 hours a day near the rancher’s home.

“Some people have asked me, where will we camp, where will we park?” Shealy said. “Anywhere, really. It’s f*cking anarchy.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/22/burning-man-organizer-plans-anything-goes-bundyfest-to-mock-scofflaw-rancher/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[CosmicCowboy]

the US Constitution relates to Bundy/BLM dispute how, please?

I didn't bring it up. I was just responding to that stupid article Boo posted.

[Winehole23]

does it misrepresent the NCCS?

[boutons_deux]

does it misrepresent the NCCS?

and, CC, does the Bundy and his NCCS misrepresent, distort, pervert the Constitution?

[boutons_deux]

Jon Stewart on Cliven Bundy: ‘Sean Hannity has now made Glenn Beck the voice of reason’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/22/jon-stewart-on-cliven-bundy-sean-hannity-has-now-made-glenn-beck-the-voice-of-reason/

[CosmicCowboy]

does it misrepresent the NCCS?

A copy of the constitution is a copy of the constitution whether it's reprinted by NCCS or Jesus Christ.

I don't give a fuck one way or the other about the NCCS.

[angrydude]

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/p403x403/10003936_629159500494195_120748990094011842_n.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/photos/a.626929534050525.1073741829.623383454405133/629159500494195/?type=1&relevant_count=1

Not sure what part of Bundy not paying grazing fees authorized the feds to do this to his property.

Looks like their top priority is to get paid back!!!

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/p403x403/10003936_629159500494195_120748990094011842_n.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/photos/a.626929534050525.1073741829.623383454405133/629159500494195/?type=1&relevant_count=1

Not sure what part of Bundy not paying grazing fees authorized the feds to do this to his property.

Looks like their top priority is to get paid back!!!

who did what?

on WHOSE property?

Bundy's a garden-variety extreme right wing nut case, and a moocher, not a maker.

[angrydude]

who did what?

on WHOSE property?

Bundy's a garden-variety extreme right wing nut case, and a moocher, not a maker.

So you didn't know they massacred a whole bunch of Bundy's cows? You didn't even recognize that photo that has been anywhere where people talk about this.

Glad to know you're super informed on things you comment about.

[angrydude]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1220627/bundy-ranch-cliven-bundy-discovers-blm-mass-cow-graves-graphic-images/
http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cattleslaughterBundy.jpg

[angrydude]

Hell boutons, even PETA made a comment about this.

[Wild Cobra]

So you didn't know they massacred a whole bunch of Bundy's cows? You didn't even recognize that photo that has been anywhere where people talk about this.

Glad to know you're super informed on things you comment about.
He knows everything his masters want him to know!

[boutons_deux]

ok, govt killed some cows that Bundy was going to kill.

[Koolaid_Man]

http://rt.com/usa/bundy-ranch-nevada-tensions-940/

gotdam you...I thought this was about the Bunny Ranch :bang

[FuzzyLumpkins]

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/p403x403/10003936_629159500494195_120748990094011842_n.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/photos/a.626929534050525.1073741829.623383454405133/629159500494195/?type=1&relevant_count=1

Not sure what part of Bundy not paying grazing fees authorized the feds to do this to his property.

Looks like their top priority is to get paid back!!!

facebook is now a credible source and the basis for your outrage? that is sad.

[angrydude]

facebook is now a credible source and the basis for your outrage? that is sad.

Um, so you're claiming the pictures are fake? Because that's what you're implying genuis. You're saying the pictures the Bundy's took themselves of their own slaughtered cows and posted to their own social media are fake. The BLM has admitted that they did it. What more of a primary source can you possibly get? Are you serious?

Well, if this is the level of denial you attribute to facts that go against your preconceived narrative, I know that you're really just disingenuous about having any sort of discussion. This probably extends to your other politics as well. That means I'm calling you a liar.

[ChumpDumper]

Bundy should've taken his cows off the land.

[angrydude]

Rosa Parks should have sat in the back of the bus.

fixed

[ChumpDumper]

fixedlol that is the worst attempt at justifying a case of simple theft ever

You're pathetic.

[angrydude]

lol that is the worst attempt at justifying a case of simple theft ever

You're pathetic.

Not a fan of civil rights huh? Least you're honest about it.

[angrydude]

Property rights are civil rights BTW. Says so right here.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv


AMENDMENT XIV

SECTION 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[ChumpDumper]

Not a fan of civil rights huh? Least you're honest about it.This isn't a civil rights issue.

He already had his due process several times over.

You are being dishonest and disingenuous.

[angrydude]

property rights are civil rights. 14th amendment says so.

Show me the court order allowing the BLM to kill the cows.

Rosa Parks was breaking the law. She didn't even have the Civil Rights act on her side at the time. So she was double breaking it.

[ChumpDumper]

property rights are civil rights. 14th amendment says so.

Show me the court order allowing the BLM to kill the cows.The BLM can do as it pleases with abandoned cattle on its land.

Bundy can sue for compensation if he wants; he can take it out of the money he owes the US taxpayers. lol due process


Rosa Parks was breaking the law. She didn't even have the Civil Rights act on her side at the time. So she was double breaking it.Good for her. She wasn't trying to steal from the taxpayers.

Why are you trying to lionize some old kook freeloading off your tax dollars?

[angrydude]

The BLM can do as it pleases with abandoned cattle on its land.

And since the main concern was Bundy mooching off taxpayers, not getting them off the land by any means necessary, the obvious choice was to kill them.


Bundy can sue for compensation if he wants; he can take it out of the money he owes the US taxpayers. lol due process

So to be straight, you're position is lol when the government breaks the law?


Good for her. She wasn't trying to steal from the taxpayers.
No, she just wanted to steal their seats.


Why are you trying to lionize some old kook freeloading off your tax dollars?

Why are you so upset at someone taking a principled stand against what they think is an unjust law.

BTW its been confirmed they were limiting the number of cattle on his land, and that played into his decision to stop paying. So they were literally trying to regulate him out of business. Your position is he should have just packed up and moved. Just like Rosa Parks should have packed up and gone to the back of the bus.

[angrydude]

BTW I get just as upset whenever I see cops violating people's civil rights in policecam videos--even if they broke the law first.

[ChumpDumper]

And since the main concern was Bundy mooching off taxpayers, not getting them off the land by any means necessary, the obvious choice was to kill them.One of many options. Bundy should have taken them of BLM land.



So to be straight, you're position is lol when the government breaks the law?Bundy can sue. If he wants to settle his debt to the taxpayers I'm all for compensating him for the cattle.



No, she just wanted to steal their seats.Yeah, your comparison is an abject failure. There is no theft involved in the Parks situation.



Why are you so upset at someone taking a principled stand against what they think is an unjust law.It's not a principled stand. He just wants something for nothing.


BTW its been confirmed they were limiting the number of cattle on his land, and that played into his decision to stop paying. So they were literally trying to regulate him out of business. Your position is he should have just packed up and moved. Just like Rosa Parks should have packed up and gone to the back of the bus.Nah, my position is he should have paid his fees. Rosa Parks paid her bus fare.

[angrydude]

One of many options. Bundy should have taken them of BLM land.


Bundy can sue. If he wants to settle his debt to the taxpayers I'm all for compensating him for the cattle.

ok then.



Yeah, your comparison is an abject failure. There is no theft involved in the Parks situation.

Rosa Parks was denied Liberty.
Bundy was denied Property



It's not a principled stand. He just wants something for nothing.

Sorry. This was a very intentional principled stand done to prove a point. All you have to do is listen to the man's own words and see his actions. He tried to pay the fee to the state but they wouldn't take them. If anything this is more like a tax protest. Stupid? Possibly. But there are degrees of stupidity. It's working out for him so far. But its definitely principled.



Nah, my position is he should have paid his fees. Rosa Parks paid her bus fare.

She wasn't arrested for not paying her bus fair.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, there is no principle here -- unless mooching is a principle. I suppose it is to you.

Bundy owes the taxpayers of the US, so he needs to pay the federal government.

Until he does, he is simply more of a moocher than your run of the mill welfare rancher.

[angrydude]

Nah, there is no principle here -- unless mooching is a principle. I suppose it is to you.

Bundy owes the taxpayers of the US, so he needs to pay the federal government.

Until he does, he is simply more of a moocher than your run of the mill welfare rancher.

And I've shown the US doesn't care about being repaid, otherwise they wouldn't have killed his cattle. The IRS isn't in the business of burning down homes they foreclose on, but that's because the IRS cares about getting paid.

Until their actions show otherwise, I'm convinced this is about more than simple tax dodging.

[ElNono]

You're saying the pictures the Bundy's took themselves of their own slaughtered cows and posted to their own social media are fake. The BLM has admitted that they did it.

The BLM admitted to euthanizing 2 bulls...

A BLM spokesman confirmed Thursday that two bulls had been killed during the agency’s weeklong roundup, which ended Saturday with an armed standoff between supporters of rancher Cliven Bundy and federal agents.

The two bulls posed “a safety hazard,” said BLM spokesman Craig Leff, who didn’t elaborate on the circumstances.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/bundy-blm/blm-2-bulls-euthanized-during-cliven-bundy-cattle-roundup

[angrydude]

The BLM admitted to euthanizing 2 bulls...

A BLM spokesman confirmed Thursday that two bulls had been killed during the agency’s weeklong roundup, which ended Saturday with an armed standoff between supporters of rancher Cliven Bundy and federal agents.

The two bulls posed “a safety hazard,” said BLM spokesman Craig Leff, who didn’t elaborate on the circumstances.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/bundy-blm/blm-2-bulls-euthanized-during-cliven-bundy-cattle-roundup

You're right. The bundy's probably killed all those cows themselves and buried them just so they could blame the BLM while the BLM was on the ranch with snipers watching them do it.

[angrydude]

They probably destroyed all those wells and all the other infrastructure to. A true Pyrrhic victory.

[ElNono]

You're right. The bundy's probably killed all those cows themselves and buried them just so they could blame the BLM while the BLM was on the ranch with snipers watching them do it.

I actually do think the Bundys are pretty kookoo and certainly wouldn't put it past them. But I really have no evidence whatsoever either party did that.

[ElNono]

Let's just say that when you say "The BLM has admitted that they did it", you're referring to two bulls...

[angrydude]

Let's just say that when you say "The BLM has admitted that they did it", you're referring to two bulls...

how about they admitted to killing cattle? Ok, you got me, they didn't admit to killing every cow.

[ElNono]

how about they admitted to killing cattle? Ok, you got me, they didn't admit to killing every cow.

I couldn't find anything. Did you?

[angrydude]

I couldn't find anything. Did you?

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25310508/breaking-news-blm-says-six-cattle-died-in-bundy-roundup

I found at least six

they say some "died".

Pretty bad ranchers tbh...

[ElNono]

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25310508/breaking-news-blm-says-six-cattle-died-in-bundy-roundup

I found at least six

they say some "died".

Pretty bad ranchers tbh...

Don't see a quote from the BLM there...

[angrydude]

Don't see a quote from the BLM there...

where it says "according to the BLM"

[ElNono]

Actually, I take that back... here's another one:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/bundy-blm/blm-confirms-six-bundy-cattle-died-roundup

[ElNono]

6 out of 350... still don't see what's the big deal.

[ElNono]

Maybe he should keep his cattle in his land, or pay what he owes...

[ElNono]

That would require him to recognize the federal government has authority over him, which at this time looks unlikely...

[ElNono]

kookoo indeed...

[pgardn]

That would require him to recognize the federal government has authority over him, which at this time looks unlikely...

Oh hell it's fun to just declare yourself a foreign citizen when it's necessary.
Maybe the Bundy's need deportation back to planet Zenos or... Syria
I think they would like Syria being they are partial to places where everyone has their own rules.

[ElNono]

Oh hell it's fun to just declare yourself a foreign citizen when it's necessary.
Maybe the Bundy's need deportation back to planet Zenos or... Syria
I think they would like Syria being they are partial to places where everyone has their own rules.

Heck, even a foreign citizen has to abide by federal law while in the US. Good luck telling the IRS they can't tax the money you made in the US because you're French...

[TheSanityAnnex]

Heck, even a foreign citizen has to abide by federal law while in the US. Good luck telling the IRS they can't tax the money you made in the US because you're French...
Agreed. Much better to come here illegally and get yourself free healthcare and education all the while funneling your earnings back to Mexico tax free.

[TheSanityAnnex]

If this was really about unpaid grazing fees why was there never a lien put on his property or his cattle?

Why was the BLM webpage specifically naming Bundy and the Gold Butte land to be used for a mitigation site erased?

[ChumpDumper]

how about they admitted to killing cattle? Ok, you got me, they didn't admit to killing every cow.lol you are so dishonest

[ChumpDumper]

Agreed. Much better to come here illegally and get yourself free healthcare and education all the while funneling your earnings back to Mexico tax free.Bundy probably has illegals tending his cattle tbh.

[ElNono]

Agreed. Much better to come here illegally and get yourself free healthcare and education all the while funneling your earnings back to Mexico tax free.

Even illegal immigrants have to get a Tax ID and pay taxes, especially if they hope to ever become citizens. Part of the citizenship requirement is showing 3 years worth of tax returns.


If this was really about unpaid grazing fees why was there never a lien put on his property or his cattle?

Why was the BLM webpage specifically naming Bundy and the Gold Butte land to be used for a mitigation site erased?

How do you enforce a court order on a guy that doesn't think federal courts have authority over him? I mean other than with federal agents and snipers...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Um, so you're claiming the pictures are fake? Because that's what you're implying genuis. You're saying the pictures the Bundy's took themselves of their own slaughtered cows and posted to their own social media are fake. The BLM has admitted that they did it. What more of a primary source can you possibly get? Are you serious?

Well, if this is the level of denial you attribute to facts that go against your preconceived narrative, I know that you're really just disingenuous about having any sort of discussion. This probably extends to your other politics as well. That means I'm calling you a liar.

I have no idea. I just have a higher standard of proof than facebook photos. Why not link the BLM admission?

[TheSanityAnnex]

How do you enforce a court order on a guy that doesn't think federal courts have authority over him? I mean other than with federal agents and snipers...thats quite the precedent to set for unpaid fees. Who's next? Plenty of people/corporations who owe more to the government than Bundy.

What is your comment on the erased BLM page?

[boutons_deux]

"How do you enforce a court order on a guy that doesn't think federal courts have authority over him?"

you "garnish" his bank account.

The financial mucky mucks recommend "bail in", where stressed, bankrupt, illiquid banks simply take INNOCENT depositors' funds (eg, Cyprus banks taking Russian depositors' funds), so why can't the govt take a GUILTY farmers funds.

[pgardn]

thats quite the precedent to set for unpaid fees. Who's next? Plenty of people/corporations who owe more to the government than Bundy.

What is your comment on the erased BLM page?

So the solution is to claim you are not a part of the US and subject to laws you make up...

[TheSanityAnnex]

So the solution is to claim you are not a part of the US and subject to laws you make up...

How did you get that from my comment?

Did you agree with the response from the government? Were 200 agents and snipers necessary?
And why have you, just like el nono, failed to respond to the deleted BLM page? Are you not aware of it?

[CosmicCowboy]

I think we can all agree that Bundy is a whack job, but are you guys honestly defending the militarized BLM reaction?

[pgardn]

How did you get that from my comment?

Did you agree with the response from the government? Were 200 agents and snipers necessary?
And why have you, just like el nono, failed to respond to the deleted BLM page? Are you not aware of it?

Go back and read the reasoning for his claim.

I have no idea and either do you as far as the reaction.
I tend to think the Feds will not show up with an army unless other threats are made. The wack jobs this nut attracted to help his newly formed country are often armed. This has been a long conflict and neither of us know what was said off the record.

[pgardn]

I think we can all agree that Bundy is a whack job, but are you guys honestly defending the militarized BLM reaction?

The reaction to show up with an army?

We have already been over this.

[boutons_deux]

a young kid makes a gun with his hand, get suspended.

somebody points a camera at cops, gets roughed up, camera destroyed

white paranoid assholes in defense of a scofflaw point guns at US govt employees, get nothing.

yep, right wingers' paranoid fantasies of govt persecution are really accurate.

[TeyshaBlue]

I never got the fascination of hardcore nanny state opponents with the supposed benevolence of state governance. What a laugh. In this day and age, The state is generally far less hands off, more meddlesome, intrusive and way more aggressive than the federal government. It's the state saying you can't do super sized sodas. It's the state that is outlawing gay marriage. It's the state that is raising excise taxes. It's the state banning abortion. It's the state saying you can or cannot smoke pot. Its's the state saying you can't smoke in restaurants.. It's the state that you fear when your restaurant is due for inspection. It's the state inspecting your health care facilities, your factory, your balls. And 99% of the time! it's the state finning you when you suck. The state is governance on steroids. For the average person, It is almost a guarantee that the state is interfering with and directly affecting your life in ways that make the federal government nearly invisible by comparison.

The state is up your ass six ways till Sunday and it will turn you or your business upside down and take a shiny penny straight out of your ass long before the federal government even realizes there's a problem. Case in point, bundy has been fucking over the Feds fir decades. Try not paying your state taxes or fees. Let me know how it works out. Lol They'll be up your ass in a NY minute. The state is the nanny that the federal government only wishes it could be.

[TeyshaBlue]

Which is why I argued for state intervention in the early stages of this conflict...aside frim the point that Bundy was receptive to state oversight vs Fed.

[boutons_deux]

I never got the fascination of hardcore nanny state opponents with the supposed benevolence of state governance. What a laugh. In this day and age, The state is generally far less hands off, more meddlesome, intrusive and way more aggressive than the federal government. It's the state saying you can't do super sized sodas. It's the state that is outlawing gay marriage. It's the state that is raising excise taxes. It's the state banning abortion. It's the state saying you can or cannot smoke pot. Its's the state saying you can't smoke in restaurants.. It's the state that you fear when your restaurant is due for inspection. It's the state inspecting your health care facilities, your factory, your balls. And 99% of the time! it's the state finning you when you suck. The state is governance on steroids. For the average person, It is almost a guarantee that the state is interfering with and directly affecting your life in ways that make the federal government nearly invisible by comparison.

The state is up your ass six ways till Sunday and it will turn you or your business upside down and take a shiny penny straight out of your ass long before the federal government even realizes there's a problem. Case in point, bundy has been fucking over the Feds fir decades. Try not paying your state taxes or fees. Let me know how it works out. Lol They'll be up your ass in a NY minute. The state is the nanny that the federal government only wishes it could be.

TB :lol FINALLY has something to say! yippee

[CosmicCowboy]

a young kid makes a gun with his hand, get suspended.

somebody points a camera at cops, gets roughed up, camera destroyed

white paranoid assholes in defense of a scofflaw point guns at US govt employees, get nothing.

yep, right wingers' paranoid fantasies of govt persecution are really accurate.

Who pointed a gun at a government employee?

[boutons_deux]

Who pointed a gun at a government employee?

how about this guy, widely photographed:

http://readersupportednews.org/images/stories/article_imgs12/012474-protester-nevada-weapon-042114.jpg

[TeyshaBlue]

TB :lol FINALLY has something to say! yippee

The Great Teyshablue always has something to say.

[TeyshaBlue]

lol @Great. :lol

[Winehole23]

Bundy's ancestral claims, debunked:


It has been widely reported that Cliven Bundy’s family claims to have ranched in the Bunkerville area since the 1870s even though a federal judge held a different view of Bundy’s history.

Bundy repeated a similar claim Thursday when he told TheBlaze website: “My family has preemptive, adjudicated livestock water rights filed with the state of Nevada. They were established in 1877 when the first pioneers entered the valley. Among those first pioneers were my grandparents from my mother’s side. My father either bought or inherited his Nevada state livestock water rights and I, in turn, have done the same.”


Contrast that with the 1998 opinion from U.S. District Judge Johnnie Rawlinson in a case where it was determined Bundy wouldn’t be allowed to use federal land for his cattle because of failure to pay grazing fees to the Bureau of Land Management. Rawlinson wrote that it wasn’t until roughly 1954 that “Bundy or his father or both have grazed livestock on public lands owned by the United States and administered by the BLM.”


Clark County Recorder documents show the 160-acre Bunkerville ranch Bundy calls home (http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny) was purchased by his parents, David and Bodel Bundy, from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt on Jan. 5, 1948. The purchase included the transfer to the Bundys of certain water rights, including water from the nearby Virgin River. Cliven Bundy was born in 1946.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history

[Wild Cobra]

Bundy's ancestral claims, debunked:

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history
That changes the color of the light...

[Wild Cobra]

The reaction to show up with an army?

We have already been over this.
An army to slaughter cows that cross a property line?

Would we be better served if they were placed on the US/Mexico border?

[ElNono]

thats quite the precedent to set for unpaid fees. Who's next? Plenty of people/corporations who owe more to the government than Bundy.

What is your comment on the erased BLM page?

Most people/corporations recognize the federal government authority over them. They might disagree as to the amounts owed, etc, but the federal authority over them never enters the picture, and they understand there are courts of law to deal with this, which avoids them visits from federal agents and snipers.

Haven't read anything about BLM pages, but I'm not sure how it applies to the main disconnect here: this is a guy that think federal laws don't apply to him. He's utterly wrong.

[ElNono]

I never got the fascination of hardcore nanny state opponents with the supposed benevolence of state governance. What a laugh. In this day and age, The state is generally far less hands off, more meddlesome, intrusive and way more aggressive than the federal government. It's the state saying you can't do super sized sodas. It's the state that is outlawing gay marriage. It's the state that is raising excise taxes. It's the state banning abortion. It's the state saying you can or cannot smoke pot. Its's the state saying you can't smoke in restaurants.. It's the state that you fear when your restaurant is due for inspection. It's the state inspecting your health care facilities, your factory, your balls. And 99% of the time! it's the state finning you when you suck. The state is governance on steroids. For the average person, It is almost a guarantee that the state is interfering with and directly affecting your life in ways that make the federal government nearly invisible by comparison.

The state is up your ass six ways till Sunday and it will turn you or your business upside down and take a shiny penny straight out of your ass long before the federal government even realizes there's a problem. Case in point, bundy has been fucking over the Feds fir decades. Try not paying your state taxes or fees. Let me know how it works out. Lol They'll be up your ass in a NY minute. The state is the nanny that the federal government only wishes it could be.

This is fine, Teysha. But the tools at our disposal are our votes, and in some cases our money to influence elections.

I can't think of a single case where pretending the rules don't apply to you doesn't end up burning you. And rightly so. If you don't like the new tax rates, you don't pay your taxes? I mean, then we're back in the far west (pun intended)

[CosmicCowboy]

how about this guy, widely photographed:

http://readersupportednews.org/images/stories/article_imgs12/012474-protester-nevada-weapon-042114.jpg

Where is the employee?

[boutons_deux]

"disposal are our votes"

useless in a gerrymandered district,

non-existant due to REpug voter suppression and voting suppression

"our money to influence elections"

Adelson and ElNono call RickyBobby for an interview

Guess who gets the interview (and the check), and guess for which "constituent" RB votes.

[ElNono]

"disposal are our votes"

useless in a gerrymandered district,

non-existant due to REpug voter suppression and voting suppression

"our money to influence elections"

Adelson and ElNono call RickyBobby for an interview

Guess who gets the interview (and the check), and guess for which "constituent" RB votes.

Not sure what you're arguing, tbh...

I said those are the tools, not that everybody has access to those tools.

Illegal aliens can't vote, so they don't have access to that.

People that don't have enough disposable income to donate to campaigns, don't have access to the other tool.

Access to those tools are a completely different matter.

The point is, pretending the federal government doesn't exist, isn't a tool. Never has been.

[leemajors]

I never got the fascination of hardcore nanny state opponents with the supposed benevolence of state governance. What a laugh. In this day and age, The state is generally far less hands off, more meddlesome, intrusive and way more aggressive than the federal government. It's the state saying you can't do super sized sodas. It's the state that is outlawing gay marriage. It's the state that is raising excise taxes. It's the state banning abortion. It's the state saying you can or cannot smoke pot. Its's the state saying you can't smoke in restaurants.. It's the state that you fear when your restaurant is due for inspection. It's the state inspecting your health care facilities, your factory, your balls. And 99% of the time! it's the state finning you when you suck. The state is governance on steroids. For the average person, It is almost a guarantee that the state is interfering with and directly affecting your life in ways that make the federal government nearly invisible by comparison.

The state is up your ass six ways till Sunday and it will turn you or your business upside down and take a shiny penny straight out of your ass long before the federal government even realizes there's a problem. Case in point, bundy has been fucking over the Feds fir decades. Try not paying your state taxes or fees. Let me know how it works out. Lol They'll be up your ass in a NY minute. The state is the nanny that the federal government only wishes it could be.

:tu

[TeyshaBlue]

This is fine, Teysha. But the tools at our disposal are our votes, and in some cases our money to influence elections.

I can't think of a single case where pretending the rules don't apply to you doesn't end up burning you. And rightly so. If you don't like the new tax rates, you don't pay your taxes? I mean, then we're back in the far west (pun intended)

I think you mis understood my point. I was addressing the nanny state argument federal government had no right to have a beef (pun intended) with Bundy.

[boutons_deux]

Where is the employee?

in the paranoid gun fellator's sights

[CosmicCowboy]

in the paranoid gun fellator's sights

proof?

[ElNono]

I think you mis understood my point. I was addressing the nanny state argument federal government had no right to have a beef (pun intended) with Bundy.

Re-reading, I certainly did... sorry bout that

[TeyshaBlue]

:pctossYou could've at least dropped a token pun.

[Nbadan]

Evidence contradicts Cliven Bundy’s ‘ancestral rights’ claim


Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s claim to an “ancestral right” to graze his cattle on federal land is not standing up to scrutiny, according to media reports.

KLAS-TV in Las Vegas took a look at property records and found, among other things, that Bundy’s parents bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948. At that time, water rights were transferredm “but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn’t start grazing on that land until 1954.”

<SNIP>

MSNBC’s Chris Hayes talked with Nevada journalist Jon Ralston, host of the TV show “Ralston Reports,” which airs on on all three NBC affiliates in that state. Ralston slammed Bundy and his claims.

“He is not a freedom fighter, he’s not standing up for state sovereignty,” Ralston said. “He is a guy trying to get away without paying fees that many other ranchers … pay here.”

MORE (INCLUDING VIDEO) HERE: http://wonkynewsnerd.com/cliven-bundy-ancestral-rights/

[baseline bum]

LOL, what a faggot. BLM should shoot all his cattle

[ElNono]

:pctossYou could've at least dropped a token pun.

GFY :ihit

[boutons_deux]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/78437/large/RTR3KXCW.jpg?1397764231:lol That's one lean, men son of a bitchin cowboy.

Conservative hero Cliven Bundy: 'I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ...' (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/24/1294262/-Conservative-hero-Cliven-Bundy-I-want-to-tell-you-one-more-thing-I-know-about-the-Negro)


What a surprise: It turns out that Cliven Bundy, the deadbeat cattle rancher who has become a hero (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/18/1293021/-Fox-News-primetime-lineup-is-obsessed-with-grazing-fee-disputes) to conservative politicians and pundits, is nothing but—well, besides that whole deadbeat cattle rancher thing—a racist (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/rancher-proudly-breaks-the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?_r=0):


“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

Coming up next: Watching conservatives awkwardly distance themselves from the remarks themselves while still embracing their hero's "principles."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/24/1294262/-Conservative-hero-Cliven-Bundy-I-want-to-tell-you-one-more-thing-I-know-about-the-Negro?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos %29

:lol typical redneck stupid fuck. Grazing cows on taxpayers land for under $2/head (vs $15/head his own state charges) AND not paying on his own subsidized bills. :lol

empty his bank account, bankrupt him, sell of his stuff until the $1M is recovered. That's EXACTLY what banks would do.

[ChumpDumper]

:cry Jim Crow :cry

:cry Rosa Parks :cry

[pgardn]

I never got the fascination of hardcore nanny state opponents with the supposed benevolence of state governance. What a laugh. In this day and age, The state is generally far less hands off, more meddlesome, intrusive and way more aggressive than the federal government. It's the state saying you can't do super sized sodas. It's the state that is outlawing gay marriage. It's the state that is raising excise taxes. It's the state banning abortion. It's the state saying you can or cannot smoke pot. Its's the state saying you can't smoke in restaurants.. It's the state that you fear when your restaurant is due for inspection. It's the state inspecting your health care facilities, your factory, your balls. And 99% of the time! it's the state finning you when you suck. The state is governance on steroids. For the average person, It is almost a guarantee that the state is interfering with and directly affecting your life in ways that make the federal government nearly invisible by comparison.

The state is up your ass six ways till Sunday and it will turn you or your business upside down and take a shiny penny straight out of your ass long before the federal government even realizes there's a problem. Case in point, bundy has been fucking over the Feds fir decades. Try not paying your state taxes or fees. Let me know how it works out. Lol They'll be up your ass in a NY minute. The state is the nanny that the federal government only wishes it could be.

This is an interesting point as it also leads me to ponder the corruption associated with even smaller "government" entities... Neighborhood association members skimming money, the horrible abuse of taxpayer money by school board members in big districts with a constituency that does not care. Getting 200 votes and then getting a kickback from your brother-in-law who wins the cafeteria food contract. This happens over and over again in SA districts that are poor. County and small city police forces totally abusing traffic laws... It's fairly easy to get elected in these small time positions yet pad income quite nicely.

[Winehole23]

in the background: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=36873

[boutons_deux]

in the background: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=36873

http://www.azland.gov/programs/natural/grazing_lease_admin/grazing_fees.htm

[Th'Pusher]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/78437/large/RTR3KXCW.jpg?1397764231:lol That's one lean, men son of a bitchin cowboy.

Conservative hero Cliven Bundy: 'I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ...' (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/24/1294262/-Conservative-hero-Cliven-Bundy-I-want-to-tell-you-one-more-thing-I-know-about-the-Negro)


What a surprise: It turns out that Cliven Bundy, the deadbeat cattle rancher who has become a hero (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/18/1293021/-Fox-News-primetime-lineup-is-obsessed-with-grazing-fee-disputes) to conservative politicians and pundits, is nothing but—well, besides that whole deadbeat cattle rancher thing—a racist (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/rancher-proudly-breaks-the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?_r=0):


“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

Coming up next: Watching conservatives awkwardly distance themselves from the remarks themselves while still embracing their hero's "principles."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/24/1294262/-Conservative-hero-Cliven-Bundy-I-want-to-tell-you-one-more-thing-I-know-about-the-Negro?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos %29

:lol typical redneck stupid fuck. Grazing cows on taxpayers land for under $2/head (vs $15/head his own state charges) AND not paying on his own subsidized bills. :lol

empty his bank account, bankrupt him, sell of his stuff until the $1M is recovered. That's EXACTLY what banks would do.




:lol pinciped stand.

[pgardn]

Hope Cliven never needs abdominal surgery.
I would opt to go in backside.

The man looks like a pregnant guppie.

[TeyshaBlue]

I would opt to go in backside.


Sig worthy.:lol

[Trill Clinton]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/78437/large/RTR3KXCW.jpg?1397764231:lol That's one lean, men son of a bitchin cowboy.

Conservative hero Cliven Bundy: 'I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ...' (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/24/1294262/-Conservative-hero-Cliven-Bundy-I-want-to-tell-you-one-more-thing-I-know-about-the-Negro)


What a surprise: It turns out that Cliven Bundy, the deadbeat cattle rancher who has become a hero (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/18/1293021/-Fox-News-primetime-lineup-is-obsessed-with-grazing-fee-disputes) to conservative politicians and pundits, is nothing but—well, besides that whole deadbeat cattle rancher thing—a racist (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/rancher-proudly-breaks-the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?_r=0):


“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

Coming up next: Watching conservatives awkwardly distance themselves from the remarks themselves while still embracing their hero's "principles."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/24/1294262/-Conservative-hero-Cliven-Bundy-I-want-to-tell-you-one-more-thing-I-know-about-the-Negro?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos %29

:lol typical redneck stupid fuck. Grazing cows on taxpayers land for under $2/head (vs $15/head his own state charges) AND not paying on his own subsidized bills. :lol

empty his bank account, bankrupt him, sell of his stuff until the $1M is recovered. That's EXACTLY what banks would do.









wow, the irony...can't wait till people like bundy are extinct.

[monosylab1k]

Shouldn't his comments only endear him further to his Republiteabertarian supporters?

[boutons_deux]

Shouldn't his comments only endear him further to his Republiteabertarian supporters?

of course, he's only "wrong" in blatantly expressing his racism that Repugs nearly all sympathize with (see Ryan's budgets, Bishop Gecko's 47%, incessant Repug/libertarian dog whistling, aryan/KKK/militia/white supremacists, (black) voter suppression) but prefer their anti-govt HERO shut up about it, esp during an election year. Fox keeps promoting the guy because Fox really knows its racist audience :lol

[Th'Pusher]

I'll be angrydude did a fist pump in the air when he heard what Mr Bundy had to say about the negro.

"Fuck yeah"

[Th'Pusher]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/214fab92b5435b04a32a3923207547da/tumblr_ml400xqnjB1s62z3yo1_500.gif

[xrayzebra]

Yeah, Bill Cosby got into trouble too for trying to have a conversation. No one want to talk about the problem, just condemn. Let the war continue in Democrat cities like Detroit and Chicago. Hell it is only in the black neighborhoods.

And those who do attempt to talk about the problem, like Dr Sowell, Justice Thomas, Bill Cosby, Dr Carson and so on are called Uncle Toms or traitors. Go figure.

[angrydude]

Here's the full unedited video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI

Politically incorrect? Yes. Racist? Well, nothing is gonna change the minds of lefties now is it?

Not surprisingly, the NYT is really good at smearing old white people. Character assassination is what they do.

[baseline bum]

LOL complaining about niggas getting subsidies when he's gotten 20 years of federal subsidies.

[boutons_deux]

Here's the full unedited video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI

Politically incorrect? Yes. Racist? Well, nothing is gonna change the minds of lefties now is it?

Not surprisingly, the NYT is really good at smearing old white people. Character assassination is what they do.

singling out the now unaccepted "the Negro", already a generalization, with those characteristics IS racist.

It's well known that Repugs' hard core is old, white, male, low information, low wage, poor, rural, probably Christian, overweight or obese, and probably with creative facial white hair patterns. :lol

racism is kin to their broader xenobphobia (all furriners, even non Euro-American American citizens)

[Nbadan]

LOL complaining about niggas getting subsidies when he's gotten 20 years of federal subsidies.

Exactly, he's a deadbeat,,,he's profited off the use of federal land for decades and now that the government want's their money he wants to act like he has a right to collect welfare because his parents did it...

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, Bill Cosby got into trouble too for trying to have a conversation. No one want to talk about the problem, just condemn. Let the war continue in Democrat cities like Detroit and Chicago. Hell it is only in the black neighborhoods.

And those who do attempt to talk about the problem, like Dr Sowell, Justice Thomas, Bill Cosby, Dr Carson and so on are called Uncle Toms or traitors. Go figure.

:lol yeah because they all wondered if blacks were better off as slaves.

[ElNono]

ya, it's the "lefties" that make this guy say stupid shit... :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Here's the full unedited video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI

Politically incorrect? Yes. Racist? Well, nothing is gonna change the minds of lefties now is it?

Not surprisingly, the NYT is really good at smearing old white people. Character assassination is what they do.Do you personally think it's racist?

Yes or no.

[baseline bum]

But real talk, since xray wants to discuss blacks in this country, for 200 years artificial selection by mas'sa of niggas strong enough to pick the cotton and bale the hay but dumb enough to buy the stories about jeebus rewarding their suffering and not revolt explains a lot about why the brothas are doing a lot worse off than whitey here tbh.

[boutons_deux]

"artificial selection by mas'sa of niggas strong enough to pick the cotton and bale the hay"

... has produced the NFL -- Chris Rock

[Trill Clinton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCto_bGIT2o

http://i59.tinypic.com/2sb0rdj.png

[boutons_deux]

WATCH: Stephen Colbert Sings the 'Ballad of Cliven Bundy'
http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/colbert_4.png

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/watch-stephen-colbert-sings-ballad-cliven-bundy?akid=11750.187590.F1qJBY&rd=1&src=newsletter985775&t=3

[xrayzebra]

Obvious from the post that we have many experts here on the breeding and selection of blacks as slaves. Of course all of the are from the left. Ought to tell people something.

Not a word about the conditions that have been created by these same leftest that have destroyed the families of black people and created a group of young blacks that think nothing of selling drugs or shooting up the neighborhood, while the leftest who run these cities do little or nothing to make the neighborhoods safe or try to persuade the young people to stay in school and further their education. What a waste of humanity.

So far all I have read is what Bundy has said was taken out of context. I have no idea how the subject was ever brought up, do any of you know? And spare me the sarcastic remarks I am asking a legitimate question.

[boutons_deux]

Yeah, Bill Cosby got into trouble too for trying to have a conversation. No one want to talk about the problem, just condemn. Let the war continue in Democrat cities like Detroit and Chicago. Hell it is only in the black neighborhoods.

And those who do attempt to talk about the problem, like Dr Sowell, Justice Thomas, Bill Cosby, Dr Carson and so on are called Uncle Toms or traitors. Go figure.

off your meds again?

Crosby should not be grouped with the Uncle Tom's.

Crosby wanted the ghetto n!gg@s to start being blacks, quit murdering other blacks, stop the drugs, pull your pants up, wear a belt, speak grammatical English (not "wat da problem is?"), get job, have a family, be a father.

[xrayzebra]

off your meds again?

Crosby should not be grouped with the Uncle Tom's.

Crosby wanted the ghetto n!gg@s to start being blacks, quit murdering other blacks, stop the drugs, pull your pants up, wear a belt, speak grammatical English (not "wat da problem is?"), get job, have a family, be a father.

Typical boutons response. He gets to pick and choose who is the Uncle Tom's.

[Wild Cobra]

Do you personally think it's racist?

Yes or no.

No. I think he's ignorant.

I think he doesn't understand how bad some slaves had it. He does correctly point out that life off the government dole isn't a life worth having. He seems to understand in generalities however that as slaves, the blacks had a better family unit than today.

[Wild Cobra]

Crosby should not be grouped with the Uncle Tom's.

Crosby wanted the ghetto n!gg@s to start being blacks, quit murdering other blacks, stop the drugs, pull your pants up, wear a belt, speak grammatical English (not "wat da problem is?"), get job, have a family, be a father.
So why do some see him as an Uncle Tom? Shouldn't Cosby's message be every bit as meaningful as MLK's?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqoZ0C0cnRE

[ChumpDumper]

No. I think he's ignorant.

I think he doesn't understand how bad some slaves had it. He does correctly point out that life off the government dole isn't a life worth having. He seems to understand in generalities however that as slaves, the blacks had a better family unit than today.But he's been living off the government for 40 years.

[xrayzebra]

But he's been living off the government for 40 years.


You think so, then why don't you go out there and make a living off the government like he has and his family before him. Easy money! Just look out for the turtles.

[boutons_deux]

So why do some see him as an Uncle Tom? Shouldn't Cosby's message be every bit as meaningful as MLK's?

ask "some" youself.

I suppose a lot of n!gg@s thought it was easy/resented multi-millionaire Crosby for dictating to poor blacks. He was really pissed that n!gg@s resented highschool blacks for hitting the books, making grades, getting diplomas as "acting white"

yes, Crosby's message was a meaningful as MLK's

[Wild Cobra]

But he's been living off the government for 40 years.
That's a matter of perception. There is so much misinformation on this topic, I don't know what to believe. I do believe he has been allowed to graze his cattle for free for some time, then someone changed the rules on him. If so, it's probably something that should have been grand-fathered. Even if he owes grazing fees, it isn't the same as being given "other people's money." I'm sure you are intelligent enough to see the difference.

Please don't take yourself down to Bouton's level.

[angrydude]

Do you personally think it's racist?

Yes or no.

Depends on whose saying it and in what context.

Old people say stupid shit all the time.

[Wild Cobra]

Depends on whose saying it and in what context.

Old people say stupid shit all the time.
Old people had a completely different vocabulary growing up.

Wasn't it the in thing to be gay in the 20's?

[monosylab1k]

as slaves, the blacks had a better family unit than today.

:lmao

[monosylab1k]

So why do some see him as an Uncle Tom? Shouldn't Cosby's message be every bit as meaningful as MLK's?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqoZ0C0cnRE

Show me the part where Bill Cosby thinks black people are better off as slaves.

[ChumpDumper]

That's a matter of perception. There is so much misinformation on this topic, I don't know what to believe. I do believe he has been allowed to graze his cattle for free for some time, then someone changed the rules on him. If so, it's probably something that should have been grand-fathered. Even if he owes grazing fees, it isn't the same as being given "other people's money." I'm sure you are intelligent enough to see the difference.

Please don't take yourself down to Bouton's level.Actually paying grazing fees is accepting a substantial federal subsidy.

He was living off subsidies for decades before he stopped paying.

[ChumpDumper]

Depends on whose saying it and in what context.

Old people say stupid shit all the time.Cop out.

Thanks, Mr. Hannity.

[angrydude]

Is it racist to say blacks are still slaves?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55aujTwuJY8

[Capt Bringdown]

Another right-wing clown show intended to make the Democrats appear to be sensible. The self-congratulation on the "progressive" side is so thick you could cut it with a chain saw.
Meanwhile, Obama normalizes Plutocratic/Hegomonic policies across the board and the Overton window moves inexorably rightward, without any substantive or meaningful opposition.

[Wild Cobra]

:lmao
Maybe you should look up some facts. The census data goes back to 1880, and you will find far more nuclear family units back then. Though going as far a slavery years would be hard to claim certainty on, I will assume the number of nuclear families in all the 1800 will be similar to the 1880 census data. The nuclear families started eroding in the 1960's, when social programs made it better to be a single mother than have a man expected to work.

[Wild Cobra]

Actually paying grazing fees is accepting a substantial federal subsidy.

He was living off subsidies for decades before he stopped paying.
We disagree on the definition of "subsidy." We have discussed that before. You lose.

[ChumpDumper]

We disagree on the definition of "subsidy." We have discussed that before. You lose.The cost of grazing is subsidized by the federal government.

By definition, that is a subsidy.

Post your definition.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe you should look up some facts. The census data goes back to 1880, and you will find far more nuclear family units back then. Though going as far a slavery years would be hard to claim certainty on, I will assume the number of nuclear families in all the 1800 will be similar to the 1880 census data. The nuclear families started eroding in the 1960's, when social programs made it better to be a single mother than have a man expected to work.So you are saying white people should be enslaved to lower the divorce rate.

:tu

[angrydude]

Pretty sure the breakup of the black family has more to do with the number of black males in prison than anything else.

If there was ever a better example of it, our criminal justice system works is institutionally racist. Now there's a legitimate complaint of racism if there ever was one.

[monosylab1k]

So you are saying white people should be enslaved to lower the divorce rate.

:tu

:lol it only makes sense. slavery = family stability > freedom. it's basic math.

[Wild Cobra]

So you are saying white people should be enslaved to lower the divorce rate.

:tu
Not at all. There is no single reason these days, but a single mother is more likely to get good government handouts than a married couple with the man being expected to work, or at least one of the two expected to work. In the single parent household, it is acceptable to claim "I can't work because of the kids." This is why our social welfare system destroys the family unit.

These statistics in general follow income circumstances rather than race. It's just also a fact that a larger percentage of blacks fall into such income situations.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol it only makes sense. slavery = family stability > freedom. it's basic math.
Shouldn't that text be in blue?

[monosylab1k]

Not at all. There is no single reason these days, but a single mother is more likely to get good government handouts than a married couple with the man being expected to work, or at least one of the two expected to work. In the single parent household, it is acceptable to claim "I can't work because of the kids." This is why our social welfare system destroys the family unit.

These statistics in general follow income circumstances rather than race. It's just also a fact that a larger percentage of blacks fall into such income situations.

So naturally it's more beneficial to take away all their money and rights, sell them to a plantation owner, and force them to live under the same roof. Nuclear family reunited, problem solved. You're welcome, Negroes!

[Wild Cobra]

So naturally it's more beneficial to take away all their money and rights, sell them to a plantation owner, and force them to live under the same roof. Nuclear family reunited, problem solved. You're welcome, Negroes!
Wow...

What type of strawman are you trying to build?

[baseline bum]

Obvious from the post that we have many experts here on the breeding and selection of blacks as slaves. Of course all of the are from the left. Ought to tell people something.

Not a word about the conditions that have been created by these same leftest that have destroyed the families of black people and created a group of young blacks that think nothing of selling drugs or shooting up the neighborhood, while the leftest who run these cities do little or nothing to make the neighborhoods safe or try to persuade the young people to stay in school and further their education. What a waste of humanity.

So far all I have read is what Bundy has said was taken out of context. I have no idea how the subject was ever brought up, do any of you know? And spare me the sarcastic remarks I am asking a legitimate question.

War on drugs is a leftist policy?

[boutons_deux]

http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/large/public/tomorrow_on_cows.png

[TheSanityAnnex]

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”




If you replace the word negro with black guy, and replace the word cotton with work, it doesn't sound that racist. He's an old time rancher, I don't expect him to be eloquent, although he should have chosen his words better to get his point across, which is blacks are now just enslaved by the government.

[boutons_deux]

"I don't expect him to be eloquent"

I heard him "speak" last night, he's just barely capable.

He used the words he thinks with, that he hears and reads from the racists he runs with.

[ElNono]

Obvious from the post that we have many experts here on the breeding and selection of blacks as slaves. Of course all of the are from the left. Ought to tell people something.

Not a word about the conditions that have been created by these same leftest that have destroyed the families of black people and created a group of young blacks that think nothing of selling drugs or shooting up the neighborhood, while the leftest who run these cities do little or nothing to make the neighborhoods safe or try to persuade the young people to stay in school and further their education. What a waste of humanity.

So far all I have read is what Bundy has said was taken out of context. I have no idea how the subject was ever brought up, do any of you know? And spare me the sarcastic remarks I am asking a legitimate question.

So what's the solution ray? Whip family values, hard work, religious morals into them? :lol

White people have astronomical divorce rates these days. Do we enslave them too to teach 'em the good ole white boy culture?

This isn't a "left" or "right" problem, IMO, it's a cultural problem. Going back in time isn't a solution.

[ElNono]

:lol it only makes sense. slavery = family stability > freedom. it's basic math.

:lol

[ElNono]

Old people say stupid shit all the time.

I would agree with this. I would actually posit that the more disconnected with reality they are, the more stupid shit they say.

[ChumpDumper]

Old people say racist shit all the time.

I can't believe you are defending this guy.

lol

[xrayzebra]

War on drugs is a leftist policy?

What in the world does the war on drugs have to do with any of it?

ElNoNo: So what's the solution ray? Whip family values, hard work, religious morals into them?

White people have astronomical divorce rates these days. Do we enslave them too to teach 'em the good ole white boy culture?

This isn't a "left" or "right" problem, IMO, it's a cultural problem. Going back in time isn't a solution.

No I am not saying anything of the kind. White boy culture, explain to me what the "white boy culture" is. And no going back in time to the days of slavery is not the answer. But going to the family unit is part of the answer. Abortions have played a big part of problems with all cultures, but more so with minorities, it they can be called that any more.

I no more have the answer than you do or anyone. We all know what makes a family a family. And it damn well isn't drugs or booze. The booze part I have had plenty of experience with in my past. I learned better. Mothers who have multiple children with multiple men is certainly not the answer. Welfare is not the answer.

I think Bundy was just trying to draw a parallel, not a very good one, but nevertheless was trying. And you have a left wing rag, NYT, that wanted to show him in the worst light. I still don't know what brought on his statements and no one has tried to enlighten me and until I know I really cant say what he meant or did mean.

[ElNono]

No I am not saying anything of the kind. White boy culture, explain to me what the "white boy culture" is. And no going back in time to the days of slavery is not the answer. But going to the family unit is part of the answer. Abortions have played a big part of problems with all cultures, but more so with minorities, it they can be called that any more.

I no more have the answer than you do or anyone. We all know what makes a family a family. And it damn well isn't drugs or booze. The booze part I have had plenty of experience with in my past. I learned better. Mothers who have multiple children with multiple men is certainly not the answer. Welfare is not the answer.

I'm glad family worked for you. I can say it worked for me too. But I also know enough people that have tried and hasn't worked out for them. The same can be said about a lot of different moral guides (ie:religion)

There's no bulletproof solution or answer. People, especially of different cultures, feel a different way about different things.

If you personally think you know better, then the road to take is education. You can't force their hand. They have to learn what works and why. And then some people still will take a different path.

Even if we were to say abortion is a big part of the problem, prohibition isn't the solution. Prohibition is forcing your moral hand over somebody else. Educating that people so they don't seek/want an abortion is the solution.

I would agree that welfare isn't always a solution, and that sometimes you have people gaming the system, and that's wrong. But the failure there it's on oversight, not on welfare. Some people legitimately need the help.


I think Bundy was just trying to draw a parallel, not a very good one, but nevertheless was trying. And you have a left wing rag, NYT, that wanted to show him in the worst light. I still don't know what brought on his statements and no one has tried to enlighten me and until I know I really cant say what he meant or did mean.

It's not the first, and unfortunately, it won't be the last time that people say something stupid and it's brought out to light. He's also far from the first person that speaks or thinks the same way.
Now, he can say whatever he wants, it's his right. But we no longer live at a time where that's the popular opinion, so the backlash is inevitable.

[Rick Santorum]

:lmao wow, this thread took a hilarious turn

[Rick Santorum]

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”




If you replace the word negro with black guy, and replace the word cotton with work, it doesn't sound that racist. He's an old time rancher, I don't expect him to be eloquent, although he should have chosen his words better to get his point across, which is blacks are now just enslaved by the government.

:lmao right, because "cotton" and "work" totally mean the same thing.

This new right wing fear mongering tactic where they try to claim big government = slavery is such a blatant contradiction of history it's awe inspiring. Slavery in this country was never and has never been anything more than a 100% private enterprise done for the profit of plantation owners. It was around for so long due to small government and was ended by big government (that whole union army thing).

[pgardn]

No. I think he's ignorant.

I think he doesn't understand how bad some slaves had it. He does correctly point out that life off the government dole isn't a life worth having. He seems to understand in generalities however that as slaves, the blacks had a better family unit than today
.

Was this before or after fathers, mothers and children were sold off to different slave owners?

And Clive is the ignorant one...
Jesus...

[TheSanityAnnex]

Back to the topic. Deleted BLM page. For those who claimed his land was never in question.


http://archive.today/nvlzr#selection-213.0-213.313

[Clipper Nation]

http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/large/public/tomorrow_on_cows.png
I'm sorry, was that comic supposed to be funny?

[monosylab1k]

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”




If you replace the word negro with black guy, and replace the word cotton with work, it doesn't sound that racist. He's an old time rancher, I don't expect him to be eloquent, although he should have chosen his words better to get his point across, which is blacks are now just enslaved by the government.

:lmao "take out the most racist parts and it's not that racist!"

[TheSanityAnnex]

:lmao "take out the most racist parts and it's not that racist!"
It's not very hard to see the parallels he was attempting to make with slavery and welfare. Figured a smart chink (no racist) like yourself could have figured that one out.

[Wild Cobra]

Show me the part where Bill Cosby thinks black people are better off as slaves.
I never said that. I never implied that. I said Bundy is ignorant.

[ElNono]

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

If you replace the word negro with black guy, and replace the word cotton with work, it doesn't sound that racist. He's an old time rancher, I don't expect him to be eloquent, although he should have chosen his words better to get his point across, which is blacks are now just enslaved by the government.

What do we replace "better off as slaves" with?

[TheSanityAnnex]

What do we replace "better off as slaves" with?
You can't. I didn't try.

[ChumpDumper]

Bundy should just allow himself to be enslaved. All his problems will disappear.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's not very hard to see the parallels he was attempting to make with slavery and welfare.

:lmao right wingers trying to paint what he said as some well thought out analysis of the black community.

[Th'Pusher]

It's astonishing that there are still people out there trying to lionize and make excuses for this moron.

[TeyshaBlue]

+10 for lionize!

[xrayzebra]

I love the way the news media is NOW covering Bundy. Before his little dissertation on race they couldn't be bothered. Now they cant report enough about him. And after reading the post on this thread I see why. Government sending armed, militarized, personnel into the dessert country to protect a turtle (or is it a Harry Reid solar powered project) wasn't news. But let him say something about blacks.......well you see the results. Here.

[boutons_deux]

"Before his little dissertation on race they couldn't be bothered."

??? :lol

XZ, WC reliable sources of unintentional comedy.

[monosylab1k]

I love the way the news media is NOW covering Bundy. Before his little dissertation on race they couldn't be bothered. Now they cant report enough about him. And after reading the post on this thread I see why. Government sending armed, militarized, personnel into the dessert country to protect a turtle (or is it a Harry Reid solar powered project) wasn't news. But let him say something about blacks.......well you see the results. Here.

:cry "nobody cared about this guy until his militia had an armed standoff with the government and he went on a racist rant!"

[monosylab1k]

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/04/25/cliven-bundy-says-if-people-find-his-remarks-offensive-martin-luther-king-didnt-do-his-job/

"Martin Luther King didn’t do his job"

:lmao this motherfucker is doubling down. Even if he is a crazy old racist, he's got some balls. I love the interview where he barely know who MLK is and clearly has no clue who Rosa Parks is.

[boutons_deux]

"he's got some balls."

nah, he's willfully misinformed himself, stupid, ignorant.

[TheSanityAnnex]

:lmao right wingers trying to paint what he said as some well thought out analysis of the black community.
I specifically said it wasn't well thought out.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Back to the topic. Deleted BLM page. For those who claimed his land was never in question.


http://archive.today/nvlzr#selection-213.0-213.313

Your thoughts on this Pusher? It goes completely against those "facts" you claimed.

[Th'Pusher]

Your thoughts on this Pusher? It goes completely against those "facts" you claimed.

How does it go against the facts in the article I posted?

[Th'Pusher]

And weren't you directed to not discuss this matter any further?

[TheSanityAnnex]

It clearly states this on the deleted page, did you even bother opening the link?


How does it go against the facts in the article I posted?

Specifically this claim as fact:

"Another project comes close. But not that close: Bundy’s home in the Mojave desert is closer to the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, a corridor that has been slated for renewable energy development. The BLM is planning a mitigation strategy that may stretch toward the area where Bundy has been grazing his cows. But even there, the maps don’t match up closely enough to suggest that Bundy’s specific grazing land was the intended site of a solar facility. Also, the Chinese company ENN had not been planning a facility in the Dry Lake area.


Where Reid’s agenda and Bundy’s cattle grazing do overlap: Bundy’s cattle have been grazing on land that Reid and Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Nev., have targeted for future wilderness protections. Both Reid and Horsford have filed legislation to turn the Gold Butte area into a national conservation area. But this is entirely separate from the solar project. A conservation status discourages development, and it’s near impossible to greenlight a solar project on conservation land."


From the deleted BLM page discussing Bundy's cattle: http://archive.today/nvlzr#selection-213.0-213.313

"Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle."

Explain to me why the page was deleted on Apr. 4th.

[Th'Pusher]

It clearly states this on the deleted page, did you even bother opening the link?



Specifically this claim as fact:

"Another project comes close. But not that close: Bundy’s home in the Mojave desert is closer to the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, a corridor that has been slated for renewable energy development. The BLM is planning a mitigation strategy that may stretch toward the area where Bundy has been grazing his cows. But even there, the maps don’t match up closely enough to suggest that Bundy’s specific grazing land was the intended site of a solar facility. Also, the Chinese company ENN had not been planning a facility in the Dry Lake area.


Where Reid’s agenda and Bundy’s cattle grazing do overlap: Bundy’s cattle have been grazing on land that Reid and Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Nev., have targeted for future wilderness protections. Both Reid and Horsford have filed legislation to turn the Gold Butte area into a national conservation area. But this is entirely separate from the solar project. A conservation status discourages development, and it’s near impossible to greenlight a solar project on conservation land."


From the deleted BLM page discussing Bundy's cattle: http://archive.today/nvlzr#selection-213.0-213.313

"Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle."

Explain to me why the page was deleted on Apr. 4th.

Pretty suspicious. Nice work super sleuth.

[baseline bum]

Why does Harry Reid's crooked ass matter here? Bundy didn't want to pay to graze on land he didn't own. LOL ancestral claims to the land when his family bought the ranch in the 1940s. Shit's hilarious that this stupid story keeps bouncing around the right wing echo chamber as if the BLM is doing this faggot a wrong.

[ChumpDumper]

And weren't you directed to not discuss this matter any further?
crofl

[Wild Cobra]

Why does Harry Reid's crooked ass matter here? Bundy didn't want to pay to graze on land he didn't own. LOL ancestral claims to the land when his family bought the ranch in the 1940s. Shit's hilarious that this stupid story keeps bouncing around the right wing echo chamber as if the BLM is doing this faggot a wrong.
What ever the facts are, one fact remains.

The government authoritarians over reacted.

[TheSanityAnnex]

crofl

That account is still locked.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Why does Harry Reid's crooked ass matter here? Bundy didn't want to pay to graze on land he didn't own. LOL ancestral claims to the land when his family bought the ranch in the 1940s. Shit's hilarious that this stupid story keeps bouncing around the right wing echo chamber as if the BLM is doing this faggot a wrong.

This is bigger than Bundy.

[ChumpDumper]

That account is still locked.
Still crofling.

Take a screenshot of the massage you got.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Still crofling.

Take a screenshot of the massage you got.

I can't log in to get screenshots of the PMs. I was digging around too much and contacted some people I shouldn't have. They "asked" me to stop and I did.

[ChumpDumper]

lol PMs to an account you can't access.

How did you read them in the first place?

[TheSanityAnnex]

lol PMs to an account you can't access.

How did you read them in the first place?

I received the PM's discussing the matter and then my account was locked.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Like I've said all along, this is much bigger than Bundy. The BLM is out of control, there's another land grab going on in Texas/Oklahoma as we speak. More people are about to lose their land by these BLM crooks who weren't even elected in to their positions. I know most of you don't see it cause you're a bunch of basement dwellers but our public land is being taken right before our eyes. Do some research on your own, I'm not going down that route again and getting another account locked. If you want some interesting pieces to read send me a PM and I'll email them to you from a separate email. And :lol at anyone thinking Harry Reid isn't a crook of the upmost importance. Follow the money.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you mean digging?

Who sent you a pm?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao is TSA trying to claim his account got locked by the feds because he "dug too deep" into this situation?

in b4 "I was just trolling!"

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/24/blog-posting/did-sen-harry-reid-drive-standoff-bundy-ranch-pers/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/nevada.asp



Conspiracy theorists are 0-2.

[Nbadan]

:lmao is TSA trying to claim his account got locked by the feds because he "dug too deep" into this situation?

in b4 "I was just trolling!"

.....could happen.....his account was locked by the Ellis-Alex Jones-Soro-Koch gang...

[m>s]

:lmao is TSA trying to claim his account got locked by the feds because he "dug too deep" into this situation?

in b4 "I was just trolling!"

take your faggot ass back to goldman sachs shill. this isn't about racism, stop trying to derail the threat with your rick santorum troll you JIDF motherfucker. it's about the people standing up to an increasingly oppressive and authoritarian federal government which overreacted and overstepped it's boundaries.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoRkmCQJewU

keep it up and see what happens

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What ever the facts are, one fact remains.

The government authoritarians over reacted.

So when the militia types were showing up with semiautomatic rifles and pistols and the guy who lost in court keeps reminding officials that he has gun and that he will resort to a range war if need be, then what is a proper response.

Ever since Jay Edgar Hoover and later WW2, US federal policy is to meet opposition with overwhelming force. Quite frankly had this been the 1960s, then the national guard would have been sent in.

The proper response should be a writ declaring him in contempt of multiple court orders and arresting the man. Let him or any of those under his authority who follow along sit in the can for 6 months.

And if anyone thinks that the Occupy Wall street people should have been sent to jail, then this guy should be strung up a tree for the shit he is pulling. Quite frankly, once I learned that his family didn't even move to NV from AZ until the 1940s I would feel like an ass for believing his bullshit and moved on. Dumbasses seem to like to double down.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I received the PM's discussing the matter and then my account was locked.

You are so full of shit. They went for a pass on people that were advertising their multiple accounts. All manner of accounts were banned and you were an asshat that advertised who your trolls are. I am not stupid and mine are still good. Critical thinking.

At this point it would be nice if you weren't making shit up. Then maybe someone would really assassinate you for us.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

take your faggot ass back to goldman sachs shill. this isn't about racism, stop trying to derail the threat with your rick santorum troll you JIDF motherfucker. it's about the people standing up to an increasingly oppressive and authoritarian federal government which overreacted and overstepped it's boundaries.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoRkmCQJewU

keep it up and see what happens

I would just like to say that you are a fool. Ever since the 90s, the feds have had a boner over militia groups. I expect you are trolling but even if you are earnest, spewing that pro militia threat and talk of armed revolution is just asking for attention you do not want. If you are earnest then you are doubly stupid because with insurgency, discretion is the better part of valor. You don't strike me as even savvy enough to hide behind proxies.

[boutons_deux]

"this isn't about racism" "oppressive and authoritarian federal government"

Actually the two are deeply intertwined in the Repugs/Atwater Southern Strategy, appealing to racist Confederates (expanded to all dumbfuck paranoid gun fellatin rednecks and inflammable rabble) to be against the Warriors of Northern Aggression, but only when those warriors are Dems, Dems being the party of today's otta-be-slaves-for-their-own-good.

What the Repugs love above all about ignorant assholes like m>s, TSA, etc in their is their malleable ignorance.

[boutons_deux]

White Rage in the Sage: Western Racism is Nothing New

The American media has suddenly discovered that anti-government Tea Party hero Cliven Bundy is a racist. While this has caused some discomfort among some of Bundy’s admirers, it should really come as no surprise to anyone with an understanding of history or Western American white culture. The sagebrush rebels like to portray themselves as heroic “salt of the earth” rugged individualists trying to preserve their way of life in the face of evil federal government alphabet agency oppressors like the EPA, ATF, FBI, and BLM. However, racism has always had a central role in the white man’s conquest of the West and that racism never died.The West was won by slaughtering the original inhabitants, and white control of the land was entrenched by massacres at places like Sand Creek and Wounded Knee, where American Indians were brutally murdered by men who believed themselves to be racially superior. While the modern cattle man cannot be held directly responsible for 19th century massacres, the ideology of white supremacy runs through the veins of many a Western cowboy or rancher.John Wayne, a Western icon, perhaps best illustrated the Sagebrush rebels racial attitudes late into the 20th Century. The movie star’s opinion of the white man’s treatment of Native Americans can be summed up by this choice quote (https://pages.shanti.virginia.edu/Wild_Wild_Cold_War/files/2011/11/John_Wayne_Playboy_Int2.pdf) from a 1971 interview with Playboy magazine.



"I don’t feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them, if that’s what you’re asking. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were
selfishly trying to keep it for themselves." :lol


John Wayne’s attitudes towards blacks was also decidedly racist and in the same vein as Cliven Bundy’s contemporary remarks. In the 1971 interview, the cowboy actor proclaimed his belief in white supremacy as follows (https://pages.shanti.virginia.edu/Wild_Wild_Cold_War/files/2011/11/John_Wayne_Playboy_Int2.pdf):

"I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don’t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people." :lol



Now to be fair, John Wayne is a pop culture Hollywood actor representing the Western rancher ethos and not a real rancher, but as a cultural icon he is one that is readily embraced by many white folks in the West to this day, in spite of or maybe because of his blatant racism.The modern Libertarian movement that is so closely aligned with the Sagebrush Rebellion of the American interior West defines itself as race neutral. However, time and time again, the leaders of that movement reveal themselves to be White Supremacists not the race-neutral opponents of federal power that they like to present themselves as.How quickly Americans have forgotten that Ronald Reagan’s controversial Interior Secretary James Watt was not ousted from his position for his confrontational attitude towards environmentalists, but rather because he referred to an advisory panel (http://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/23/us/watt-asks-that-reagan-forgive-offensive-remark-about-panel.html) as containing ”a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple”. While many Senators favored his resignation, the staunchest defender of his racist remarks was a Western GOP Senator, Alaska’s Ted Stevens.


Perhaps Americans have also forgotten that in the 1990s a favorite Congressperson for Sagebrush rebels, militia leaders, anti-environmentalists, and others who opposed federal government authority was Idaho’s Helen Chenowith. Chenowith, a White Supremacist congress woman once railed against the Endangered Species Act by proclaiming that (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1996-07-30/news/9607220224_1_gingrich-speaker-republican-leadership) “it’s the white Anglo-Saxon male that’s endangered”. That comment was well received by White Supremacists who built their Aryan separatist community in the Idaho panhandle.While Southern bigotry, associated as it is with the slave holding states of the Old Confederacy, receives the most attention, the Western bigotry of the Cliven Bundy variety is no less toxic. Racism has always been a central feature of the Sagebrush rebellion’s anti-government crusade.

Many wealthy Western ranchers who receive generous federal subsidies, view themselves as deserving of government support from the very government they refuse to recognize, while at the same time they demonize racial minorities as undeserving welfare recipients stealing from “hard-working” Americans like themselves.

While they may try to deny their bigotry, the Western anti-government movement has a long tradition of racism, and Cliven Bundy is part of that tradition.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/04/25/white-rage-sage-western-racism.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29 (http://www.politicususa.com/2014/04/25/white-rage-sage-western-racism.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29)

Repugs think they only have to "message" better to win black votes! :lol

[Shastafarian]

I would just like to say that you are a fool. Ever since the 90s, the feds have had a boner over militia groups. I expect you are trolling but even if you are earnest, spewing that pro militia threat and talk of armed revolution is just asking for attention you do not want. If you are earnest then you are doubly stupid because with insurgency, discretion is the better part of valor. You don't strike me as even savvy enough to hide behind proxies.

Don't worry about m>s. His main goal in life is reattaching his wiener skin that was removed without consent. Though it shouldn't be too hard to find such a small piece of skin to reattach. I wonder how it's coming for him....no I don't.

[Shastafarian]

take your faggot ass back to goldman sachs shill. this isn't about racism, stop trying to derail the threat with your rick santorum troll you JIDF motherfucker. it's about the people standing up to an increasingly oppressive and authoritarian federal government which overreacted and overstepped it's boundaries.

keep it up and see what happenswith Nazi shit all over your account. lol

[boutons_deux]

Coal Bear crushes with the Ballad of Cliven Bundy, and of course bitch slapping Hannity to a bloody pulp

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/25/stephen_colbert_sings_the_ballad_of_cliven_bundy_h is_land_belongs_to_you_and_me_thats_what_he_told_s ean_hannity/

[TheSanityAnnex]

You are so full of shit. They went for a pass on people that were advertising their multiple accounts. All manner of accounts were banned and you were an asshat that advertised who your trolls are. I am not stupid and mine are still good. Critical thinking. I don't think you have a clue as to what is going on. Who is this "they" you are speaking of?


At this point it would be nice if you weren't making shit up. Then maybe someone would really assassinate you for us.
I'd watch the veiled threats if I were you, this is the second time in a week you've wished death upon me. Threaten death on me a third time and see what happens.

[ChumpDumper]

What would happen?

[TheSanityAnnex]

What the Repugs love above all about ignorant assholes like m>s, TSA, etc in their is their malleable ignorance.




Speaking of ignorance boutons, I'll once again remind you I am no Republican.

[Shastafarian]

I don't think you have a clue as to what is going on. Who is this "they" you are speaking of?


I'd watch the veiled threats if I were you, this is the second time in a week you've wished death upon me. Threaten death on me a third time and see what happens.:lol

[Th'Pusher]

Speaking of ignorance boutons, I'll once again remind you I am no Republican.
But republicans do love your malleable ignorance.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't think you have a clue as to what is going on. Who is this "they" you are speaking of?


I'd watch the veiled threats if I were you, this is the second time in a week you've wished death upon me. Threaten death on me a third time and see what happens.

DIAF

[TheSanityAnnex]

DIAF

You are such a pussy. Go ahead, wish death upon me again for getting under your skin on a message board, it really makes you seem intelligent.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Do it with one of your trolls, I'd really like to see one of those.

[ChumpDumper]

You are such a pussy. Go ahead, wish death upon me again for getting under your skin on a message board, it really makes you seem intelligent.If you react as strongly as you intimate, would that not mean he has gotten under your skin?

[TheSanityAnnex]

If you react as strongly as you intimate, would that not mean he has gotten under your skin?

I've yet to wish death on anyone online so no.

[ChumpDumper]

I've yet to wish death on anyone online so no.That's why I was asking what you would do if he said it a third time. You were hinting at some kind of response.

[Shastafarian]

That's why I was asking what you would do if he said it a third time. You were hinting at some kind of response.

Survey says: Facetious insult.

[Ricky Davis]

Password mysteriously changed this morning. PM following asking to not discuss this further. Anyone else?

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/424/526/2fc.jpg

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://princessworld.edublogs.org/files/2011/02/a-dancind-monkey-q44vr1.gif

Good monkey. Continue to dance for us.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Again......
I don't think you have a clue as to what is going on. Who is this "they" you are speaking of?


I'd watch the veiled threats if I were you, this is the second time in a week you've wished death upon me. Threaten death on me a third time and see what happens.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wouldn't you like to know. I am not here to answer your questions, dipshit. Now keep dancing.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You are so full of shit. They went for a pass on people that were advertising their multiple accounts. All manner of accounts were banned and you were an asshat that advertised who your trolls are. I am not stupid and mine are still good. Critical thinking.

At this point it would be nice if you weren't making shit up. Then maybe someone would really assassinate you for us.

You claim to know who did it and why. If you're going to state such things be prepared to be questioned. If you can't back your claims.....? Critical thinking.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You claim to know who did it and why. If you're going to state such things be prepared to be questioned. If you can't back your claims.....? Critical thinking.

I either know or I do not and you knowing is besides the point. Now go play in traffic.

[Wild Cobra]

You claim to know who did it and why. If you're going to state such things be prepared to be questioned. If you can't back your claims.....? Critical thinking.
It's fuzzy logic.

[boutons_deux]

Krugman had a useful analogy

What if The Amazing Pot Belly grazed his cows on his neighbors property, refused to remove then, then had his armed militia show up to enforce his crime?

That would be extortion and armed robbery.

[pgardn]

Krugman had a useful analogy

What if The Amazing Pot Belly grazed his cows on his neighbors property, refused to remove then, then had his armed militia show up to enforce his crime?

That would be extortion and armed robbery.

In Clive's country that's legal.
You need to read his constitution.