***Official 2014-2015 Cleveland Browns Thread*** (sponsored by we got Football)

[DesignatedT]

Manziel stans omitting the obvious flaws of Manziel not being able to line up under center and make a throw, instead needing the read option :lol

Another clueless soul. I saw Manziel run the read option less than 10 times in his entire college career.

Not. Paying. Attention.


You obviously don't know his game much like most the media. Cleveland fans will soon know and the NFL will soon know.

[spurraider21]

Another clueless soul. I saw Manziel run the read option less than 10 times in his entire college career.

Not. Paying. Attention.
did you watch the preseason game?

not. paying. attention.

[DesignatedT]

did you watch the preseason game?

not. paying. attention.

Uhh yeah? What about it? I saw them call one read option for him and it didn't work. He's doesn't need the read option, he never has.

Also saw him go 7/11 from inside the pocket in his first game as a Pro and his first time in live action in over 8 months. I would say that's pretty good all things considered. Especially for a guy who "can't throw" .

[spurraider21]

FkLA has a friend in you

[manufan10]

did you watch the preseason game?

not. paying. attention.

They ran it, but it's not like they depended on it like djohn stated.

[FkLA]

replay of football's debut on nfl network right now for those that had the misfortune of missing it tbh

[manufan10]

500021243866013696

This doesn't make sense if you want to name a starter by preseason week 3. Why not give both guys a shot to start in a game and decide from there? Players and media have been saying the competition has been 50/50.

[manufan10]

500054249053884416

I wonder how long the first team is going to play. The whole first half?

[Raven]

he's going vince young already...

[spurraider21]

:lol late for team meeting, fined... probably hung over

[manufan10]

:lol They handled it "internally," yet Manziel's the only guy who is named as being tardy when there were a couple of others.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11355064/johnny-manziel-tardiness-cleveland-browns-handled-internally (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11355064/johnny-manziel-tardiness-cleveland-browns-handled-internally)

[FkLA]

:lol They handled it "internally," yet Manziel's the only guy who is named as being tardy when there were a couple of others.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11355064/johnny-manziel-tardiness-cleveland-browns-handled-internally (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11355064/johnny-manziel-tardiness-cleveland-browns-handled-internally)

It sells I guess. People that want to see him fail so badly will click on that link even if they'll be disappointed with the content.

The Browns themselves are being idiots though.

[benefactor]

The Browns themselves are being idiots though.
It's the Browns tbh. You knew what you signed up for when you started following them.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol late for team meeting, fined... probably hung over
:lmao

[manufan10]

It sells I guess. People that want to see him fail so badly will click on that link even if they'll be disappointed with the content.

The Browns themselves are being idiots though.


It's the Browns tbh. You knew what you signed up for when you started following them.

Pretty much. Here's what Wilbon had to say on PTI a couple of days ago:

Ooa0TtsUrBk

[Blizzardwizard]

Wait, people still think Manziel is going to start over Hoyer?

Ok then. :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

Wait, people still think Manziel is going to start over Hoyer?

Ok then. :lol
yes and those people are morons. Kid's Tim Tebow but it's ok cause he doesn't have Jesus

[FkLA]

Wait people actually think Hoyer is more than a career back-up?

Ok then. :lol

[Clipper Nation]

Remember that "first-in, last-out mentality" (http://fansided.com/2014/07/30/cleveland-browns-rumors-johnny-manziel-first-last-mentality/#!bDWI0Q) Inbred supposedly had?

:lol Already late for meetings
:lol Can't even get the "first-in" part right

[Raven]

Wait people actually think Hoyer is more than a career back-up?

Ok then. :lol

hoyer is rehabbing from a torn acl, just sayin

[Kyle Orton]

Jay gruden said our starters are playing the first quarter. :lol if this defense gets torched by the same offense it's faced in practice the last few years

[Clipper Nation]

Prior to Monday night’s preseason game, Brian Hoyer was the favorite to win his competition with Johnny Manziel to open the season as the Browns’ starting quarterback. After the game, coach Mike Pettine’s comments suggested that Hoyer is still the favorite.

Pettine insisted that all options are on the table, but the combination of Pettine’s anger at Manziel for flipping the bird on the field and Pettine’s insistence that the Week One starter will be the quarterback who gives the Browns the best chance to win in Week One seem to point to Hoyer.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/19/hoyer-still-looks-like-the-favorite-as-pettine-ponders-week-1-qb/

[Raven]

everything was set up for a fake job competition with a ton of hype afterwards (even though he was battling a journeyman coming from a torn acl in a lame scheme), but then he fucking sucked both on and off the court as per par.

[jeebus]

Only thing the dipshit proved is that opposing teams can easily get into his head. Weak minded fuckstick :lol

[spurraider21]

Only thing the dipshit proved is that opposing teams can easily get into his head. Weak minded fuckstick :lol

[middle finger]

[benefactor]

Hoyer has been named the Browns starting QB per Schefter.

[djohn2oo8]

Hoyer has been named the Browns starting QB per Schefter.

Manziel throws up middle finger to this :lol

[Raven]

obviously, he failed in proving wrong any of the commonly mentioned flaws he had. Not even one.

[FkLA]

He's an absolute scrub but allowing him to get eaten alive Weeks 1-3 instead of Football makes sense.

Start off 0-3 then make the switch during the bye week imo.

[FkLA]

obviously, he failed in proving wrong any of the commonly mentioned flaws he had. Not even one.

You talking about Hoyer, right? :lol

[Raven]

You talking about Hoyer, right? :lol

rrrrrright..

-immaturity
-lack of poise
-inaccurate long thrower
-lacks an nfl arm
-stupid runner
-undersized (well that one couldn't have been proven wrong)
-more a distraction than anything
.
.

[FkLA]

:lol The 'starter' had two completions for 16 yds last game. He didn't complete a pass until the 3-minute mark of the second quarter, the other was a lateral pass to end the half.

Think what you want about Football but he outplayed that scrub both games. Pettine had his mind made up unless Football absolutely dominated. Let's not paint it out to be as Football losing a race here tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

Hoyer has been named the Browns starting QB per Schefter.
Brian Football :worthy:

[benefactor]

502097494487367680

:lol Aggie

[Darth_Pelican]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/s526x395/10632708_786556184730418_1440380866109861127_n.jpg

[Avante]

Joe Montana could be the Browns starter and they still won't be making the playoffs. Two of the most important stats in football is TO margin and that sacks/sacked difference. The Browns sucked in both and they had nothing they did well other than pass defense at 8th. This is not a good team regardless of who is at QB, so why not go with the guy you took as your first pick? What's he going to learn sitting on the bench?

If Hoyer blows it you now rely on a rookie? No, you start the rookie and if he stinks it up the vet comes in to save things, that's the smart way to do business. (not that either scenario matters the Browns are 6-10 regardless)

The Browns really don't know they need to start planning for the future because the right now is a 6-10 at best?

[Pelicans78]

Joe Montana could be the Browns starter and they still won't be making the playoffs. Two of the most important stats in football is to margin and sacks/sacked difference. The Browns sucked in both and they had nothing they did well other than pass defense at 8th. This is not a good team regardless of who is at QB, so why not go with the guy you took as your first pick? What's he going to learn sitting on the bench?

The Browns really don't know they need to start planning for the future because the right now is a 6-10 at best?

I think sitting on the bench and just learning the game more will be beneficial. Otherwise, he's just gonna freelance which won't help any development. He can also build some strength, learn the playbook better, and just mature overall. This is not the type of QB where throwing him to the wolves will be a good thing. He's not ready to start right now so why just throw him to the wolves where he's probably gonna get injured since he doesn't have any knowledge of the playbook, he's frail, and he freelances. The coaches are doing him a favor and the team long-term by making him watch. He's not an Andrew Luck or Russell Wilson type who can step in right away.

[Bill_Brasky]

:lol bandwagonning the fucking browns because they drafted johnny one read

[Avante]

I think sitting on the bench and just learning the game more will be beneficial. Otherwise, he's just gonna freelance which won't help any development. He can also build some strength, learn the playbook better, and just mature overall. This is not the type of QB where throwing him to the wolves will be a good thing. He's not ready to start right now so why just throw him to the wolves where he's probably gonna get injured since he doesn't have any knowledge of the playbook, he's frail, and he freelances. The coaches are doing him a favor and the team long-term by making him watch. He's not an Andrew Luck or Russell Wilson type who can step in right away.

My point is................they spent their first pick on the guy, so what does that tell us? If they'd taken him in the third round as a project, cool sit him and let it all soak in, that wasn't the case. If they want to win right now you don't waste your first pick on a project. They had nobody with over 5 sacks last season, if they wanna win right now they needed a pass rusher.

We don't know what he can do, and we won't as long as it hangs on the sideline. He wasn't taken that high to be a backup. He's going to have to play sometime, might as well get as much experience as possible in 2014.

You can start a rookie and if he fucks up no big deal he's a rookie. Ok bring in the vet. You can't start the vet and then replace him with a rookie, if the rookie now fucks up you bring back the vet you benched..........that would suck.

[monosylab1k]

My point is................they spent their first pick on the guy, so what does that tell us? If they'd taken him in the third round as a project, cool sit him and let it all soak in, that wasn't the case. If they want to win right now you don't waste your first pick on a project. They had nobody with over 5 sacks last season, if they wanna win right now they needed a pass rusher.

We don't know what he can do, and we won't as long as it hangs on the sideline. He wasn't taken that high to be a backup. He's going to have to play sometime, might as well get as much experience as possible in 2014.

Green Bay used a 1st round pick on Aaron Rodgers and let him sit 3 years. Worked out okay.

[Avante]

Green Bay used a 1st round pick on Aaron Rodgers and let him sit 3 years. Worked out okay.

The Packers situation was totally different than what we see with the Browns.

[leemajors]

My point is................they spent their first pick on the guy, so what does that tell us? If they'd taken him in the third round as a project, cool sit him and let it all soak in, that wasn't the case. If they want to win right now you don't waste your first pick on a project. They had nobody with over 5 sacks last season, if they wanna win right now they needed a pass rusher.

We don't know what he can do, and we won't as long as it hangs on the sideline. He wasn't taken that high to be a backup. He's going to have to play sometime, might as well get as much experience as possible in 2014.

You can start a rookie and if he fucks up no big deal he's a rookie. Ok bring in the vet. You can't start the vet and then replace him with a rookie, if the rookie now fucks up you bring back the vet you benched..........that would suck.

No, Pelicans78 was right on the money.

[monosylab1k]

The Packers situation was totally different than what we see with the Browns.

During Rodgers' rookie season, Favre threw 29 picks and had a 70 passer rating. Basically he was Brian Hoyer that year.

[Avante]

No, Pelicans78 was right on the money.

Watch how this works out, and after the sixth week tell me if you still feel this way.

The Browns could easily be 0-3 heading into their bye week, next up Tennessee. Watch how this works.

[Avante]

During Rodgers' rookie season, Favre threw 29 picks and had a 70 passer rating. Basically he was Brian Hoyer that year.

Brett favre was having a Hall of Fame career, and the previouS year he had over 4000 yards and 30 td's with a 92.4 passer rating. The Packers could afford to waste a first round pick on a QB, that is not the Browns.

[Fabbs]

This

He's an absolute scrub but allowing him to get eaten alive Weeks 1-3 instead of Football makes sense.

Start off 0-3 then make the switch during the bye week imo.

and this
monoslob
During Rodgers' rookie season, Favre threw 29 picks and had a 70 passer rating. Basically he was Brian Hoyer that year.

[JoeTait75]

Joe Montana could be the Browns starter and they still won't be making the playoffs. Two of the most important stats in football is TO margin and that sacks/sacked difference. The Browns sucked in both and they had nothing they did well other than pass defense at 8th. This is not a good team regardless of who is at QB, so why not go with the guy you took as your first pick? What's he going to learn sitting on the bench?

If Hoyer blows it you now rely on a rookie? No, you start the rookie and if he stinks it up the vet comes in to save things, that's the smart way to do business. (not that either scenario matters the Browns are 6-10 regardless)

The Browns really don't know they need to start planning for the future because the right now is a 6-10 at best?

I'm sorry, I can't get behind the mindset of writing off an entire season before it even begins. We do that year after year after year after year around here. It's a corrosive mindset. At some point you have to at least try and win games. You go with the guy that gives you the best opportunity to do that. If that guy is Manziel (which I don't think it is) he should start. If that guy is Hoyer he should start.

[Raven]

Brett favre was having a Hall of Fame career, and the previouS year he had over 4000 yards and 30 td's with a 92.4 passer rating. The Packers could afford to waste a first round pick on a QB, that is not the Browns.

dude, you're not making any sense :lol.. why having a hall of fame qb makes then being able to afford to throw a first rounder on a qb? if anything, they should have used it to improve the rest of the team and be in win now mode.

[Avante]

I'm sorry, I can't get behind the mindset of writing off an entire season before it even begins. We do that year after year after year after year around here. It's a corrosive mindset. At some point you have to at least try and win games. You go with the guy that gives you the best opportunity to do that. If that guy is Manziel (which I don't think it is) he should start. If that guy is Hoyer he should start.

The Browns do this year after year after year because of stupid moves like this one.

The Browns will go 0-3 no matter who is back there so why not give your future starter all the experience he can get?

[Avante]

dude, you're not making any sense :lol.. why having a hall of fame qb makes then being able to afford to throw a first rounder on a qb? if anything, they should have used it to improve the rest of the team and be in win now mode.

Favre was 35 years old, like I say a whole different deal than what we have at Cleveland. No doubt the Packers needed to start thinking about life after Favre. The Browns aren't thinking about life after Brian Hoyer.

[JoeTait75]

The Browns do this year after year after year because of stupid moves like this one.


No, the Browns do this year after year because a.) they usually don't have a lot of talent and b.) they're constantly building for 2-3 years from now and sending the message to their players that it doesn't matter if they win or not.

And they've played the old "We're not going to win anyway so we might as well throw the young guy out there and see how he does" game. That's how they've ended up with guys like Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy as the starters. I'll let you know when that strategy pays dividends.

And no, I'm not just going to assume they'll be 0-3 after three weeks.

[Raven]

:lol The 'starter' had two completions for 16 yds last game. He didn't complete a pass until the 3-minute mark of the second quarter, the other was a lateral pass to end the half.

Think what you want about Football but he outplayed that scrub both games. Pettine had his mind made up unless Football absolutely dominated. Let's not paint it out to be as Football losing a race here tbh.

hoyer at least proved last year he can make this team win and also he is coming off a torn acl, making it even more ridiculous that johnee can't beat him..And obviously you agree he did not prove any of those points wrong.

[Raven]

No, the Browns do this year after year because a.) they usually don't have a lot of talent and b.) they're constantly building for 2-3 years from now and sending the message to their players that it doesn't matter if they win or not.

And they've played the old "We're not going to win anyway so we might as well throw the young guy out there and see how he does" game. That's how they've ended up with guys like Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy as the starters. I'll let you know when that strategy pays dividends.

And no, I'm not just going to assume they'll be 0-3 after three weeks.

cleveland actually has a ton of talent this year.. the wr corp is shitty, but other than that there's plenty to like.

[JoeTait75]

cleveland actually has a ton of talent this year.. the wr corp is shitty, but other than that there's plenty to like.

At any rate they have enough talent to not go into the season just assuming they're going to win 4 or 5 games.

[Pelicans78]

My point is................they spent their first pick on the guy, so what does that tell us? If they'd taken him in the third round as a project, cool sit him and let it all soak in, that wasn't the case. If they want to win right now you don't waste your first pick on a project. They had nobody with over 5 sacks last season, if they wanna win right now they needed a pass rusher.

We don't know what he can do, and we won't as long as it hangs on the sideline. He wasn't taken that high to be a backup. He's going to have to play sometime, might as well get as much experience as possible in 2014.

You can start a rookie and if he fucks up no big deal he's a rookie. Ok bring in the vet. You can't start the vet and then replace him with a rookie, if the rookie now fucks up you bring back the vet you benched..........that would suck.

But he wasn't their first pick. They traded up in the later first round to get him. If they felt he was an immediate need, they would have drafted him with their higher first round pick. Obviously they felt he wasn't a franchise type QB, but was a safer choice for a later first round pick they traded up to get. So its still ok for them to sit him and let him watch and develop.

[Avante]

No, the Browns do this year after year because a.) they usually don't have a lot of talent and b.) they're constantly building for 2-3 years from now and sending the message to their players that it doesn't matter if they win or not.

And they've played the old "We're not going to win anyway so we might as well throw the young guy out there and see how he does" game. That's how they've ended up with guys like Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy as the starters. I'll let you know when that strategy pays dividends.

And no, I'm not just going to assume they'll be 0-3 after three weeks.

So you see Frye and McCoy on the same level as Manziel? Why?

Don't let...the Browns are my team....get in the way here. The Browns haven't won in Pitt in over 10 years, they will lose that game. Do you really think a team searching for a QB is beating Drew Brees? They are 1-5 vs Baltimore since 2012, they win this one? Could easily be 0-3.

Hoyer will go 0-3 now what?

[Pelicans78]

During Rodgers' rookie season, Favre threw 29 picks and had a 70 passer rating. Basically he was Brian Hoyer that year.

They're probably gonna be 0-3 with the rookie starting. He's not very good at this point.

[Avante]

But he wasn't their first pick. They traded up in the later first round to get him. If they felt he was an immediate need, they would have drafted him with their higher first round pick. Obviously they felt he wasn't a franchise type QB, but was a safer choice for a later first round pick they traded up to get. So its still ok for them to sit him and let him watch and develop.

DUH..Avante. That's right a fact I'd forgotten about.

The bottom line is a team needs their QB to be their leader, not a QB just threading water waiting to go under. There is no doubt of any kind Manziel will get a shot at starter this season, so why wait?

[JoeTait75]

So you see Frye and McCoy on the same level as Manziel? Why?

Don't let...the Browns are my team....get in the way here. The Browns haven't won in Pitt in over 10 years, they will lose that game. Do you really think a team searching for a QB is beating Drew Brees? They are 1-5 vs Baltimore since 2012, they win this one? Could easily be 0-3.

Hoyer will go 0-3 now what?

The last time they played Drew Brees they beat him in the Superdome with Colt McCoy starting. This is the NFL, not Kennesaw State vs. Florida State. Is it likely they're going to beat their first three opponents? Not especially. But it isn't out of the question.

Again, you go with the guy that gives you the best chance to win, always.

[Pelicans78]

DUH..Avante. That's right a fact I'd forgotten about.

The bottom line is a team needs their QB to be their leader, not a QB just threading water waiting to go under. There is no doubt of any kind Manziel will get a shot at starter this season, so why wait?

Because you could do more harm than good by rushing him too soon. He needs a lot of development that doesn't occur on gameday like learning the playbook, getting stronger, and becoming more mature. He won't learn those things getting beat up on the field.

[Raven]

DUH..Avante. That's right a fact I'd forgotten about.

The bottom line is a team needs their QB to be their leader, not a QB just threading water waiting to go under. There is no doubt of any kind Manziel will get a shot at starter this season, so why wait?

Well, you know, he may learn the playbook..

[Avante]

The last time they played Drew Brees they beat him in the Superdome with Colt McCoy starting. This is the NFL, not Kennesaw State vs. Florida State. Is it likely they're going to beat their first three opponents? Not especially. But it isn't out of the question.

Again, you go with the guy that gives you the best chance to win, always.

There was a reason the Saints were favored by 12.5 in that game, the Browns were 1-5.

Ok man lets see how....you always go with.....works out for the Browns.

[Avante]

Well, you know, he may learn the playbook..

It's not about that it's about not wanting a team wondering about who their QB is going to be. What happens if after week two Hoyer has lost both games and looked like shit doing it, now what?

[JoeTait75]

There was a reason the Saints were favored by 12.5 in that game, the Browns were 1-5.

Ok man lets see how....you always go with.....works out for the Browns.

So how do you sell that to the players? "Well fellas, we just want to let you know that we're not going with the best option at the most important position. We're going with the rook that is late to meetings and flips off the opposing bench because fuck it, we're not going to win anyway." That's a great way to build a winning culture, Avante, really.

[Fabbs]

Favre was 35 years old, like I say a whole different deal than what we have at Cleveland. No doubt the Packers needed to start thinking about life after Favre. The Browns aren't thinking about life after Brian Hoyer.
The Browns are absolutely thinking about life after Brian Hoyer.

If Hoyer excells and remains the starter, good for him.

99.99 Johny F is going to be starting within 3 years. Probably more like next year and good possibility of this year.

[Avante]

So how do you sell that to the players? "Well fellas, we just want to let you know that we're not going with the best option at the most important position. We're going with the rook that is late to meetings and flips off the opposing bench because fuck it, we're not going to win anyway." That's a great way to build a winning culture, Avante, really.

Then there's always...

Ok guys here's the deal, the Pats, Steelers and Cards didn't want him and he has thrown almost as many INT's as TD's but things will be different now, forget the fact nobody wanted him coming out of college either. So what if we sit a Heisman Award winner a first round pick who won in the mighty SEC, he flipped a bird and was late to a meeting, as all of you know none of you have ever done that. We want to win right now so there is little doubt a castoff who went undrafted is our best bet. Always better to sit Heisman winners and first round picks with an attitude, we want a guy with no attitude.

Don't forget guys as a senior at Michigan State our boy had a 51.0 completion % and 9 TD's to go with 9 INT's, are we ready or what?

[JoeTait75]

Then there's always...

Ok guys here's the deal, the Pats, Steelers and Cards didn't want him and he has thrown almost as many INT's as TD's but things will be different now, forget the fact nobody wanted him coming out of college either. So what if we sit a Heisman Award winner a first round pick who won in the mighty SEC, he flipped a bird and was late to a meeting, as all of you know none of you have ever done that. We want to win right now so there is little doubt a castoff who went undrafted is our best bet. Always better to sit Heisman winners and first round picks with an attitude, we want a guy with no attitude.

Don't forget guys as a senior at Michigan State our boy had a 51.0 completion % and 9 TD's to go with 9 INT's, are we ready or what?

I guarantee you nobody in that locker room gives a rat's ass about Johnny Manziel's Heisman Trophy. Or that he beat Alabama two years ago. Or that Brian Hoyer played a bad game in the 2007 Emerald Bowl or whatever.

Again... if Brian Hoyer gives you the best chance to win football games right now he should start, full stop.

[Avante]

I guarantee you nobody in that locker room gives a rat's ass about Johnny Manziel's Heisman Trophy. Or that he beat Alabama two years ago. Or that Brian Hoyer played a bad game in the 2007 Emerald Bowl or whatever.

Again... if Brian Hoyer gives you the best chance to win football games right now he should start, full stop.

And I guarantee the reason Manziel was taken in the first round and Hoyer went undrafted was all about Heisman/Alabama etc vs nothing. And don't think these players don't know that.

How do we know Hoyer gives them the best chance to win right now? Stop acting like that's a proven fact, it's not. The guy has done nothing ever to deserve that kind of talk. The Browns were 4-12 last season, so he stands the best chance of winning 4 games? Isn't that why Manziel is there so they can win more than 4 games?

[JoeTait75]

How do we know Hoyer gives them the best chance to win right now? Stop acting like that's a proven fact, it's not. The guy has done nothing ever to deserve that kind of talk. The Browns were 4-12 last season, so he stands the best chance of winning 4 games? Isn't that why Manziel is there?

He won two football games as the starter last year, which is two more than Manziel has won. Look, it's all a moot point. Hoyer has already been named the starter, so apparently I'm not the only one who thinks he gives them the best chance of winning right now.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Old Faggot is salty as fuck.... the reality is that Johnny 8-Ball is a one-read gimmick who can't read a defense, can't make plays from the pocket, and has the emotional maturity of a two-year-old.... he has "Ryan Leaf 2.0" written all over him....

It's the Brian Football era in Cleveland, deal with it....

[Avante]

He won two football games as the starter last year, which is two more than Manziel has won. Look, it's all a moot point. Hoyer has already been named the starter, so apparently I'm not the only one who thinks he gives them the best chance of winning right now.

The Steelers dumped Johnny Unitas, the Raiders paid Jamarcus Russell how much? I could go on and on and on, Ryan Leaf, Heath Schuler etc etc etc.

Ok man these coachs always know what's best, hahaha!!!!!!

[Avante]

:lol Old Faggot is salty as fuck.... the reality is that Johnny 8-Ball is a one-read gimmick who can't read a defense, can't make plays from the pocket, and has the emotional maturity of a two-year-old.... he has "Ryan Leaf 2.0" written all over him....

It's the Brian Football era in Cleveland, deal with it....

The hell with...

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...that was college. Obviously the guy can't read defenses and is just a gimmick....hahaha!!!!!!!

Let me me guess you really do believe Brian Hoyer will be the Browns starting QB this season don't ya skippy?

[spurraider21]

The hell with...

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52

...that was college. Obviously the guy can't read defenses and is just a gimmick....hahaha!!!!!!!

Let me me guess you really do believe Brian Hoyer will be the Browns starting QB this season don't ya skippy?
Tebow and Russell are both near the top for career completion % in SEC history. College statistical production is not how you predict NfL success

[Avante]

Tebow and Russell are both near the top for career completion % in SEC history. College statistical production is not how you predict NfL success

It's exactly how you "predict" NFL success since you have nothing else to go with. It's those college stats that determine who gets drafted here and there.

Tell me why was Clowney taken as the number one pick, yep.....college success. They saw the potential just like Manziel.

You'll never read/hear.....well he sucked at BYU, but is tailor made for the pros.....trust me.

[JoeTait75]

It's those college stats that determine who gets drafted here and there.

If that's the case Timmy Chang and Colt Brennan would have been top-five picks.

[Avante]

If that's the case Timmy Chang and Colt Brennan would have been top-five picks.

And if Hawaii played in the SEC, Pac12, Big10, they would have been.

You do understand how this works, right?

[jeebus]

Brian Football :worthy:
It's a good move. Let Hoyer start, rack up some easy wins so Shaw can learn the system more. Once Hoyer's inevitable injury occurs, they don't miss a beat when Based Shaw comes in and keeps the winning going.

[Clipper Nation]

For his part, Manziel said he felt he got a fair opportunity to win the starting job and that “I don’t feel like I would’ve gone back and done anything differently” over the last few months.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/20/johnny-manziel-if-i-went-back-i-wouldnt-do-anything-differently/

:lol This faggot just doesn't get it....

[Avante]

This really is incredible...

The Browns will be no better than 6-10 if that, they lost 11 of their last 12 games in 2013 and had only won 9 combined in 2011 and 2012. FIGURE THIS SHIT OUT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a bad team why not try something different? What they'll lose football games...THEY ALREADY SUCK!

Manziel can lose just as easily as Hoyer can.

[spurraider21]

It's exactly how you "predict" NFL success since you have nothing else to go with. It's those college stats that determine who gets drafted here and there.

Tell me why was Clowney taken as the number one pick, yep.....college success. They saw the potential just like Manziel.

You'll never read/hear.....well he sucked at BYU, but is tailor made for the pros.....trust me.
Clowney didn't go number 1 because of stats or production. Michael Sam had more sacks, but who's better at rushing the qb?

You go by the tape and their skill set, not by statistical production. Colt Brennan lot up the NCAA with monster passing numbers. Tebow and Russell had great completion percentages
but are wildly inaccurate.

Skill sets transfer, stats dont

[Avante]

Clowney didn't go number 1 because of stats or production. Michael Sam had more sacks, but who's better at rushing the qb?

You go by the tape and their skill set, not by statistical production. Colt Brennan lot up the NCAA with monster passing numbers. Tebow and Russell had great completion percentages
but are wildly inaccurate.

Skill sets transfer, stats dont

So why do we have the combine? Why not just watch tape? Why do we need the 40 numbers, the standing long jump numbers if stats don't matter?

You know as well as I do how little respect teams like Hawaii get, so why act like you don't?

Hell yes scouts/coachs look at career stats the reason being they are very important. If you don't believe that then you've never heard...well he had 14 sacks in 2011 but only 8 in 2012. Who would care if that didn't matter?

So this is bogus and you know better?


Although the months leading up to the NFL (http://bleacherreport.com/nfl) draft tend to glorify individual workouts in shorts, there is no more important indicator of a player’s prospects for success at the next level than what they were able to do as a collegiate player.
With that being said, many players who achieve statistical success at the collegiate level never have their games translate to success in the NFL.

[FkLA]

hoyer at least proved last year he can make this team win and also he is coming off a torn acl, making it even more ridiculous that johnee can't beat him..And obviously you agree he did not prove any of those points wrong.

Football outplayed him both games, so I don't know why you are trying to make it seem like that scrub actually beat him out.

He won 2-3 games, so he's far from proven. Especially if he's not the same after the ACL injury which, going by how much he scrubbed it up, looks to be the case.

[monosylab1k]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-browns-are-playing-this-perfectly/

[djohn2oo8]

This competition was never about Hoyer. As Browns (http://www.spurstalk.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE) coach Mike Pettine (http://www.spurstalk.com/player/mikepettine/2551431/profile) said, it was about Manziel versus the playbook (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000378692/Johnny-Manziel-is-still-learning-the-playbook). It sounds like the playbook is winning early.

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Wednesday that players knew Manziel was struggling to call plays (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/502094739920158722). (Viewers of Monday Night Football (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014081800/2014/PRE2/browns@redskins) got a taste of the issue during a telecast when Manziel struggled to spit out (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/502097494487367680) the complicated verbiage of the Kyle Shanahan system.)

Rapoport noted that the Browns (http://www.spurstalk.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE) quickly discovered what a steep learning curve Manziel had after playing in a spread college offense with no playbook. Play calls, snaps under center and setting protections were all skills that Manziel had to learn from the ground up.







NFL Media's Aditi Kinkhabwala relayed a conversation (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000380996/article/what-now-for-johnny-manziel-with-cleveland-browns) with wide receiver Andrew Hawkins (http://www.spurstalk.com/player/andrewhawkins/2508097/profile), during which he talked about Hoyer's veteran command of the playbook.
"With Johnny Manziel (http://www.spurstalk.com/player/johnnymanziel/2543462/profile), the people in the huddle are still helping him a little bit," Kinkhabwala said.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000381014/article/johnny-manziel-struggled-with-the-playbook?campaign=Twitter_atl

:lmao

[Pelicans78]

Andre Woodson put up big time numbers as a QB for Kentucky in the late 2000s. He couldn't sniff a roster.

[benefactor]

This competition was never about Hoyer. As Browns (http://www.spurstalk.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE) coach Mike Pettine (http://www.spurstalk.com/player/mikepettine/2551431/profile) said, it was about Manziel versus the playbook (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000378692/Johnny-Manziel-is-still-learning-the-playbook). It sounds like the playbook is winning early.

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Wednesday that players knew Manziel was struggling to call plays (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/502094739920158722). (Viewers of Monday Night Football (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014081800/2014/PRE2/browns@redskins) got a taste of the issue during a telecast when Manziel struggled to spit out (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/502097494487367680) the complicated verbiage of the Kyle Shanahan system.)

Rapoport noted that the Browns (http://www.spurstalk.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE) quickly discovered what a steep learning curve Manziel had after playing in a spread college offense with no playbook. Play calls, snaps under center and setting protections were all skills that Manziel had to learn from the ground up.







NFL Media's Aditi Kinkhabwala relayed a conversation (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000380996/article/what-now-for-johnny-manziel-with-cleveland-browns) with wide receiver Andrew Hawkins (http://www.spurstalk.com/player/andrewhawkins/2508097/profile), during which he talked about Hoyer's veteran command of the playbook.
"With Johnny Manziel (http://www.spurstalk.com/player/johnnymanziel/2543462/profile), the people in the huddle are still helping him a little bit," Kinkhabwala said.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000381014/article/johnny-manziel-struggled-with-the-playbook?campaign=Twitter_atl

:lmao
Aggie gonna Aggie tbh.

[Avante]

I wish I coached the Browns. When I made the decision to bring in Manziel I took his skill set into consideration instead of trying to fit him into some system. Not unlike what we see with RW in Seattle.

He was never the prototypical NFL QB so why act like he is? I'd be trying to build my offense around his skill set. Actually talk to him about how we can make it work.

I know, I know....high school...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!! College...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey Avante this is the NFL ya dumb fuck. But......this guy was totally incredible at the HS level, now look at the impact he made on the college game. This is a very special athlete, so why not do your best to put him in the best possible situation to succeed....or....don't draft him.

Bullet Bob Hayes was a running back at FAMU, once he got to Dallas they wanted to use his WR speed as a receiver, he would become the guy who is responsible for the zone defense. Dallas knew how to use him.

[spurraider21]

so why not do your best to put him in the best possible situation to succeed....or....don't draft him.
this i actually agree with, but at the same time, you cant just stick Manziel in the shotgun in a spread offense in the NFL

[Avante]

this i actually agree with, but at the same time, you cant just stick Manziel in the shotgun in a spread offense in the NFL

The problem with the Browns is they just don't get it. Let's be honest this team isn't going anywhere in 2014 so why not do what they can to set them self up for 2015 and beyond? You start with finding an offense best suited for a guy who has proven if he's in the right situation he'll succeed.

A moving pocket***, the read option, the shotgun, three step drops from under center, that's what this guy is about. He's not a seven step drop then stand tall in the pocket, that should be obvious. If you drafted him to do that, you fucked up.

*** Len Dawson (HOFer) made this work with the Chiefs.

[djohn2oo8]

In b4 FKLA says Johnny Fucking football is such monster that he doesn't even need to know the playbook because he runs plays in his head.

[Raven]

this i actually agree with, but at the same time, you cant just stick Manziel in the shotgun in a spread offense in the NFL
it's also why Manziel was an UDFA type of prospect to begin with...

[Raven]

it's funny how now some say that it's positive that he will be put into action slowly, when they could have done like the jags and not see him lose a battle in the first place.

[FkLA]

it's funny how now some say that it's positive that he will be put into action slowly, when they could have done like the jags and not see him lose a battle in the first place.

What battle? Your hatred of Football is blinding you.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Inbred stans pretending there wasn't a QB competition after their messiah lost it

[FkLA]

:lol Inbred stans pretending there wasn't a QB competition after their messiah lost it

jesus christ you are too dumb




502873680423424000

[Avante]

:lol Inbred stans pretending there wasn't a QB competition after their messiah lost it

Well actually dummy, Manziel totally out played Hoyer. Just look at the stats ya dumb fuck.

[FkLA]

504675380280561666

smh

[chunticakes]

504675380280561666

smh

welp, there goes my 12th round pick lol.

[Raven]

6/17 against third stringers :lol

[spurraider21]

6/17 against third stringers :lol
:cry but he had some magic improvisational plays

[Raven]

:cry but he had some magic improvisational plays

also a recovered fumble...

[spurraider21]

also a recovered fumble...

:worthy:

[Clipper Nation]

also a recovered fumble...


You're dumb, tbh. :cry

[Pelicans78]

System QB as evident last night.

[weebo]

Kenny Hill took a massive shit on Foozeball's college football legacy last night, and Foozeball answers with a resounding 6/17 for 83 yds against high school janitors. :lmao

[spurraider21]

its how i felt when we had Russell and LSU won the title the following year :lol

[Blizzardwizard]

Johnny Cocaine :lol

Can't beat Brian Hoyer to the starting job :lmao

[spurraider21]

:lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wp_qz5Pcy8#t=12

[Chinook]

Kenny Hill took a massive shit on Foozeball's college football legacy last night, and Foozeball answers with a resounding 6/17 for 83 yds against high school janitors. :lmao

That's fine. The Browns will be in the Kenny Hill sweepstakes in two years.

On that note, though. That game reminded me about how awful the college game is. The announcers kept praising Hill for being accurate, but most of his throws had awful placement. No way that type of passing would work in the NFL. He has a couple of years to get better, so I'm not panning him. But it should be no surprise why players who put up elite college numbers can still suck passing in the pros.

[Chinook]

:lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wp_qz5Pcy8#t=12

It only worked because Manziel did it. For everyone else, that would be a bad decision. -- FKLA

[spurraider21]

That's fine. The Browns will be in the Kenny Hill sweepstakes in two years.

On that note, though. That game reminded me about how awful the college game is. The announcers kept praising Hill for being accurate, but most of his throws had awful placement. No way that type of passing would work in the NFL. He has a couple of years to get better, so I'm not panning him. But it should be no surprise why players who put up elite college numbers can still suck passing in the pros.

LOL he completed 73% of his passes for 500 yards, 3 TD's and no picks. You're reaching, Dunning-Kruger.

[manufan10]

I'm probably a bigger JFF fan than FkLA, but I always thought he should NOT start right away. I didn't think he was NFL ready when he was playing last season at A&M and thought he could have benefited from staying on the college level for one more year. I don't blame him for taking the money and leaving for the NFL though. But sitting on the bench and not thrown to the wolves right away will be beneficial. He did struggle A LOT more than I anticipated, but I think as time goes on Manziel will become an NFL caliber QB. He has the tools and worth ethic to do it. :tu

[Avante]

Manziel was so incredible at the HS level you wouldn't believe his exploits, it's ridiculous. Then he becomes...JohnnyFootball...at A&M and we all know the....WOW!!!...there.

This is not a guy who sits on benchs. He has no idea what's that like. He might be able to play that role for a few weeks (not that he has a choice) but if it goes much longer than that I look for him to become a problem.

[spurraider21]

why did this thread die 4 weeks ago?

[benefactor]

why did this thread die 4 weeks ago?
:cry we got Football :cry

[spurraider21]

Clearly the winners of the draft so far. Things are looking bright in the Forest City tbh.

http://standingosports.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Hoyer.jpg

[Clipper Nation]

Hoyer :worthy:

[Aztecfan03]

To be fair, things are looking pretty good for Cleveland in relation to normal.

[JoeTait75]

Hoyer isn't that big, isn't that athletic, doesn't have the strongest arm, doesn't have the highest ceiling... but he understands the game. He just knows what he's doing out there. Which is a refreshing change from 15 years of QBs that had no clue WTF they were doing.

[KoolAid Mans Brother]

lol Mexican UTSA OP not caring about the Browns anymore because his fag boy rides the bench and doesn't contribute to shit except being a distraction to a successful team.

[DD]

Pettine was ours:cry

[FkLA]

Yeah I don't give a fuck about em if my nigga Football ain't starting, so what.

lol wasting a solid team by going with a career back-up

[Malik Hairston]

Wasn't Pettine their last option, like Plan F?:lol..

Crazy that he's going to be COTY, tbh..

[Spur-Addict]

Ben Tate waived

[The Gemini Method]

Ben Tate waived

My bet is the Colts are gonna be sniffing around Tate.

[chunticakes]

Ben Tate waived

good. he cost me my fantasy game this weekend.

[Spur-Addict]

My bet is the Colts are gonna be sniffing around Tate.

Wouldn't be surprised, although Tate seems to have issues with time shares. He'll have trouble just about anywhere he goes with this mindset.

[The Gemini Method]

Wouldn't be surprised, although Tate seems to have issues with time shares. He'll have trouble just about anywhere he goes with this mindset.

LaGarrette Blount gone too...Raiders and Colts!

[FkLA]

539162301245300736

The Football era is here. :bobo

[FkLA]

BEREA, Ohio -- Brian Hoyer (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12477/brian-hoyer) does not believe he should lose his job as the Cleveland Browns (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-browns)' quarterback.

"We're 7-5," Hoyer said Monday, one day after he was replaced in the fourth quarter by Johnny Manziel (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/16736/johnny-manziel) in a 26-10 loss to Buffalo. "That just doesn't happen by luck. It was hard-earned and we've worked to get where we're at. And we're still in it.

"With those other teams [Pittsburgh and Baltimore] losing yesterday, we have four more games; two of them are division games. You don't get to 7-5 in the NFL just by lucking into it."

Hoyer said he also feels he's established himself as an NFL starter.

"We're 7-5 here," he said. "We won three games last year when I started; 10-5 as a starting quarterback, that's not bad."

...

Hoyer was pulled with 12:01 left, after he had thrown two interceptions and the Browns had scored three points. Hoyer said on the first interception he expected Josh Gordon (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15705/josh-gordon) to cross in front of a safety and threw it that way, but Gordon took the route deep.

"Even Josh came up to me and said, 'That was my fault,'" Hoyer said.

The second interception Hoyer said was a bad throw. In three games, Hoyer has one touchdown pass and six interceptions. In the past two the numbers are no touchdowns and five interceptions.

...


Hoyer ranks 12th in the league with 3,105 yards, but his rating has dropped from the low 90s to 79.9, which is 27th. He is 33rd with a completion percentage of 56.2, and 10th with a yards per attempt of 7.74.

Hoyer points out that the Browns remain alive in the playoff chase.

"I think I've proven I've gotten us to this point and I feel like I can carry us through the next four games," Hoyer said. "There's no doubt in my mind that I'll be ready to go."


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11964617/brian-hoyer-cleveland-browns-says-earned-position-starter



Why do people act like this desperate scrub is some class act? :lol

I've led us to this, I've led us to that, I'm an NFL starter, even Josh said it was his fault not mine, I'm going to look visibly asshurt when Football leads the team on an 80 yard TD drive, etc. Few things are more annoying than scrubs who aren't humble tbh.

[FkLA]

That's fine. The Browns will be in the Kenny Hill sweepstakes in two years.



Kenny Hill took a massive shit on Foozeball's college football legacy last night, and Foozeball answers with a resounding 6/17 for 83 yds against high school janitors. :lmao

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/abr.gif

[Raven]

offence went into tank with alex mack's injury, jet hoyer still got his team to a shocking 7-5 record. Johnny Bench is a good idea for the tank, pettine showed major weakness there and surely lost his qb in the free agency. Sad ending, but it will be fun to watch Bench for a few games until he gets on a wheelchair.

[Avante]

What do the great teams all have in common? Stabilty and talent at coach/QB. The Browns with a rookie coach who doesn't know who his QB will be....hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JoeTait75]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11964617/brian-hoyer-cleveland-browns-says-earned-position-starter



Why do people act like this desperate scrub is some class act? :lol

I've led us to this, I've led us to that, I'm an NFL starter, even Josh said it was his fault not mine, I'm going to look visibly asshurt when Football leads the team on an 80 yard TD drive, etc. Few things are more annoying than scrubs who aren't humble tbh.

Yeah I like Hoyer, but this is poor form. He really only has himself to blame for getting pulled. IMO Pettine did not want to pull Hoyer at any time and would have only done so if he felt he had no choice.

Hoyer is a game-manager so his biggest value comes in not making many mistakes. When he's throwing picks like he's done the last few weeks his value diminishes to say the least.

Actually, Josh Gordon's return has contributed to Hoyer's downfall. He's been forcing it in to Gordon- IIRC four of his five INTs the last two weeks have been on balls intended for Gordon. There are times in which Gordon doesn't exactly fight for his QB but it's still on Hoyer for trying to jam it in to him when he shouldn't.

[djohn2oo8]

You don't make this move right now. Dumbass Pettine.

[unleashbaynes]

Surely his last two games have nothing to do with Gordon being back and the playcalling being designed to force feed him the ball....

Yeah, lets bench the guy thats led us to a winning record for a scrub who doesnt study the playbook and who's style of play will have him killed by the third game. Such a Browns move.

[Blizzardwizard]

If I was Hoyer I'd give Pettine the middle finger and say 'If you start this clown I'm fucking out'. Quite a few teams out there that could use him.

[Clipper Nation]

Typical Browns (and typical FkTrannies). Pro Bowl center out? Josh Gordon coming back and completely disrupting the chemistry of the offense? Must be Hoyer's fault!

It's clear they were looking for any excuse to bench Hoyer for Inbred, which makes one wonder why they ever started him in the first place. This is why the Browns will always be the Browns.

[spurraider21]

whichever gives josh gordon the most fantasy value is the one i want to start :lol... i traded emmanuel sanders for foster because i was counting on gordon

[Raven]

whichever gives josh gordon the most fantasy value is the one i want to start :lol... i traded emmanuel sanders for foster because i was counting on gordon

i'm serious when i say this: the one who has a weaker arm and gets to feed gordon at the line of scrimmage or close, allowing him to do all the damage after the catch.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Hoyer sucks

[spurraider21]

i'm serious when i say this: the one who has a weaker arm and gets to feed gordon at the line of scrimmage or close, allowing him to do all the damage after the catch.
i dont disagree. that works pretty well with demaryius too

[FkLA]

If I was Hoyer I'd give Pettine the middle finger and say 'If you start this clown I'm fucking out'. Quite a few teams out there that could use him.

:lol Yeah I bet teams are lining up for his services. He's a limited player, it's hilarious that yalls hate for Football makes y'all glorify this dude.

What y'all actually thought Football was gonna ride the bench forever? He's a 1st round pick, he was bound to get his shot at some point.

[djohn2oo8]

539162301245300736

The Football era is here. :bobo

540183266398318592

:lmao Johnny Bench bitch

[JoeTait75]

540183266398318592

:lmao Johnny Bench bitch

As much as I agree with Hoyer being benched on Sunday I admire Pettine's guts in making this decision, if this is really what's going down. It would have been easy to play to the fans and the media and make the switch. And I do still have faith that Hoyer will bounce back and play well.

I'll tell you, though, if Hoyer gets off to a slow start against the Colts the fans will be all over him. He's a tough guy, but it'll be a test of his fortitude. He'll not only be going against the Colts defense, he'll be going up against a home crowd that wants to and expected to see his backup. Again, that's assuming this report is true.

[FkLA]

But I thought Pettine wanted to bench poor Hoyer at the first chance?

He deserves to start one last time I have no problem with it. And Pettine clearly favors him, but it's only a matter of time. Hoyer is melting down both on and off the field...I've never seen a dude state how this is his team, his job, throw around his record as a starter, etc the way he's been doing all week. Its kinda weird and cringeworthy since he's an average QB at best. First INT or a couple of three and outs and the pound will be calling for Football tbh.

[JoeTait75]

But I thought Pettine wanted to bench poor Hoyer at the first chance?

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought the opposite- that Pettine did NOT want to bench Hoyer unless he felt his hand was forced. Pettine has been firmly in Hoyer's corner since the beginning.

[FkLA]

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought the opposite- that Pettine did NOT want to bench Hoyer unless he felt his hand was forced. Pettine has been firmly in Hoyer's corner since the beginning.

Yeah, it's obvious Pettine favors him.

It was directed at the people that are too blinded by their hate for Football to see it. I saw your post from 1-2 days ago so I was aware of you stance on this tbh.

[Raven]

so Johnny Bench still true to his name...

[Malik Hairston]

Hoyer sucks, but benching him would be pretty stupid, tbh..

The Browns are much better than expected, and whether or not Hoyer has played a significant role in the improvement is debatable, but he's still the QB on an over-achieving team, I don't think you can bench him immediately after he goes through a rough stretch..I'd give him 1 more game, tbh..

[spurraider21]

wouldn't be shocked if they bench hoyer after today's performance.

the main issue is if you install manziel full time, you have to change your entire offense. if you just have him drop back in a pocket and throw, he's going to get killed. they'll have to stick to a lot of bootleg/rollout/read-option/spread type of stuff where manziel is comfortable

[Avante]

If the Browns lose to Cincinnati, there is no reason to not play Manzeil the last two games, it's real obvouis Hoyer is not the answer. I saw him miss throws that HS QB at John Bosca can make. dead serious. He's a better passer than Brian Hoyer.

[spurraider21]

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/mccown.jpg

[Raven]

wouldn't be shocked if they bench hoyer after today's performance.

the main issue is if you install manziel full time, you have to change your entire offense. if you just have him drop back in a pocket and throw, he's going to get killed. they'll have to stick to a lot of bootleg/rollout/read-option/spread type of stuff where manziel is comfortable
is that the main issue tbh :lol?