Spurs refuse Manu permission to play in FIBA tournament

[littlecoyotecoin]

The fact that he's under contract with the Spurs and not 'retired' makes it a hypothetical, and that puts the decision, under the current circumstances, squarely on the Spurs.

Could he walk away from his current deal? Possibly. It that an hypothetical? Absolutely.

You are saying he can't retire from the Spurs because he is under contract. Love you, too, NoNo, but get real.

[itzsoweezee]

You're pointing out the hypocrisy by implying that Spurs let him play with the injury while refusing to allow him to play with the same injury to represent his National team.

And you've got to be joking with the "Spurs ARE NOT preventing him from playing." remark, right?

Manu can go play with the national team if he wants. It will simply default his contract. It's a business decision for Manu. Is his national team play worth $7 million dollars to him?

[exstatic]

http://youtu.be/hW4uXlRGAF0

Thank goodness Duncan got pick by the spurs.

The only difference between the beatdown that Hakeem put on David, and the one that Amare put on Tim in 2005 is that in 2005, THE FUCKING DEFENDERS STAYED ON THEIR SHOOTERS. There was no transvestite freak playing off the most clutch playoff shooter over 6'9" to ever play in order to pad his rebounding stats.

[ElNono]

You are saying he can't retire from the Spurs because he is under contract. Love you, too, NoNo, but get real.

Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that retiring and playing for the NT is an hypothetical. He could choose to do that, but it's not what's going on right now.

Frankly, love you too yote, and it's a waste of time discussing this, since IMO Pop and Manu are way beyond any talks of forcing hands with threats of retirement and such.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Manu can go play with the national team if he wants. It will simply default his contract. It's a business decision for Manu. Is his national team play worth $7 million dollars to him?



It is an "OPTION" that I could quit my job, give my house away, and take my family and live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER - but considering that that would not be a very good decision for anyone involved, it's not really a true "OPTION". But I could do it if I wanted to.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He would need to exercise that option for it NOT to be an hypothetical. Until then, he cannot play because the Spurs don't want him to play (which is fine by me).

Ok, fine. Him having the option is not a hypothetical. Him having the ability to exercise the option is not a hypothetical. The option exists. Phew. /semantics.

[littlecoyotecoin]

It is an "OPTION" that I could quit my job, give my house away, and take my family and live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER - but considering that that would not be a very good decision for anyone involved, it's not really a true "OPTION". But I could do it if I wanted to.

So, quit your bitchin' and get back to work, or hop in your van.

[ElNono]

Phew. /semantics.

exactly :toast

Let's just hope he's ready for #6 :lobt2:

[RD2191]

:corn:

[32fastest]

I think it sucks. I wish Manu would make the smart decision on his own to not play. Can't really blame the dude for wanting to play for his country though.

[itzsoweezee]

That's how a contract works. You follow the terms or you're in default. Manu bargained for the contract, he had the option to guarantee unrestricted playing time with the national team when the contract was being negotiated. Likely, this would have cost millions of dollars on his part. He chose to not go that route. That was his option. So saying Manu's choices at this point are not a "true option" is complete bullshit.

[dabom]

exactly :toast

Let's just hope he's ready for #6 :lobt2:



:flag:

[littlecoyotecoin]

Again - I'm not saying that I don't understand it or that I don't approve of it, but there is no denying that the hypocrisy exists. That's all I'm saying.

Everyone agrees it exists. That's why they write the checks.

[ElNono]

That's how a contract works. You follow the terms or you're in default. Manu bargained for the contract, he had the option to guarantee unrestricted playing time with the national team when the contract was being negotiated. Likely, this would have cost millions of dollars on his part. He chose to not go that route. That was his option. So saying Manu's choices at this point are not a "true option" is complete bullshit.

It actually doesn't work like that at all. It's all spelled out in the CBA and NBA-FIBA agreements. It's not negotiable through a player's contracts.

The Spurs are on the right here though.

[Juggity]

There were actually reports (and some posters actually pointed it out) that he was limping noticeably after Game 3 and 4 of the Finals...


http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2014/07/02/report-ginobili-likely-to-miss-world-cup-with-stress-fracture/

"The fracture was discovered during a routine postseason physical, according to a league source, and began bothering the 36-year-old guard at some point during the Spurs’ run in Western Conference playoffs. By the end of the Spurs’ march to a championship, Ginobili could often be seen limping noticeably after games."

http://deadspin.com/did-manu-ginobili-dunk-on-chris-bosh-with-a-stress-frac-1599437065

"Spurs Nation narrowed down that "late in San Antonio's championship season" with a source who said Ginobili played with a stress fracture in his leg through at least the Finals. So, yes, old-ass Manu Ginobili, with a fractured leg, dunked on Chris Bosh. Damn, Manu."

I'm not disputing that he had a fracture during that period. Certainly he did. I noticed the limping as well.

All I'm disputing is that the spurs knew he had a fracture at that time as opposed to simple wear-and-tear issues.

As far as I know, the fracture was diagnosed weeks later.

[RD2191]

Didn't Jordan have a love for the game clause? Couldn't Manu of done some shit like that?:lol

[Kindergarten Cop]

Everyone agrees it exists. That's why they write the checks.


Because the Spurs PAY him and argentina doesn't...

One team PAYS him to play...

One team doesn't...

That's not hypocrisy. That's called earning your paycheck.

[ElNono]

FWIW, the tournament doesn't start until Aug 30th... arguably, he could sit out for the 8 weeks the Spurs doctors recommended. The problem is that until the Spurs clear him, he can't even practice with his teammates.

[FireMicoHalili]

Everyone agrees it exists. That's why they write the checks.
please stop kicking the corpse buddy, it's disrespectful

[littlecoyotecoin]

Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that retiring and playing for the NT is an hypothetical. He could choose to do that, but it's not what's going on right now.

Frankly, love you too yote, and it's a waste of time discussing this, since IMO Pop and Manu are way beyond any talks of forcing hands with threats of retirement and such.

But, you keep telling me the OPTION is a hypothetical. The option is not. He does have the option to play even if he would end up in court over it. Of course, we know this won't happen for reasons you've already stated.

[Kindergarten Cop]

So, quit your bitchin' and get back to work, or hop in your van.

Stay classy. :toast

[dabom]

Didn't Jordan have a love for the game clause? Couldn't Manu of done some shit like that?:lol

I think he'd get laughed at.

[itzsoweezee]

It actually doesn't work like that at all. It's all spelled out in the CBA and NBA-FIBA agreements. It's not negotiable through a player's contracts.

The Spurs are on the right here though.

I thought the CBA said teams couldn't prevent players from playing with their national teams?

[Mikeanaro]

Didn't Jordan have a love for the game clause? Couldn't Manu of done some shit like that?:lol
Maybe that clause doesnt include international playing stuff is just for playing pickup games in a gym or something, maybe Manu is not that clever.

[chasky]

Leandro Ginobili ‏@Leaginobili 11 min
Les dejo una frase antes de irme a dormir: no está muerto quien pelea...

[dabom]

I thought the CBA said teams couldn't prevent players from playing with their national teams?

Maybe is they are injured hey can.

[ElNono]

But, you keep telling me the OPTION is a hypothetical. The option is not. He does have the option to play even if he would end up in court over it. Of course, we know this won't happen for reasons you've already stated.

lol last post on this. The "option" isn't an hypotetical. Actually *using* said "option" is an hypothetical. Until he does that, and he removes the Spurs from the picture, he's bound to the Spurs' decision.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Goodnight all. It's been fun. Early rise.

[dabom]

Leandro Ginobili ‏@Leaginobili 11 min
Les dejo una frase antes de irme a dormir: no está muerto quien pelea...

Fucking Manu. :lol

Wait that's not manu. :rollin

[RD2191]

Leandro Ginobili ‏@Leaginobili 11 min
Les dejo una frase antes de irme a dormir: no está muerto quien pelea...
This is America, you post this shit in American.


JK:lol

[Mikeanaro]

Leandro Ginobili ‏@Leaginobili 11 min
Les dejo una frase antes de irme a dormir: no está muerto quien pelea...
Says who? Kristina Kirchner? :lmao

[Kindergarten Cop]

Goodnight all. It's been fun. Early rise.

Even though we disagree on some takes, it's been fun voicing opinions and getting feedback. Take it easy LCC. :toast

[ElNono]

I thought the CBA said teams couldn't prevent players from playing with their national teams?

Unless they deem they're not healthy or if they cannot obtain insurance. The Spurs would be making this decision on the healthy part (FIBA-NBA agreement Section C, Clause 1).

[playbonner15]

Now they're just trying to extinguish the fire that drives Manu. Expect him to be traded by Mid season SMH :depressed

[milkyway21]

This is good news to me.. It means I can now cheer 100% for Gilas (we are in the same 1st round bracket with Argentina) & with Manu resting, more chances for the Spurs to repeat.

This 2013-2014 Spurs team will still be team to beat next season.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The only difference between the beatdown that Hakeem put on David, and the one that Amare put on Tim in 2005 is that in 2005, THE FUCKING DEFENDERS STAYED ON THEIR SHOOTERS. There was no transvestite freak playing off the most clutch playoff shooter over 6'9" to ever play in order to pad his rebounding stats.

Yeah. People love to conveniently forget that Hakeem was being single-covered because he was surrounded by shooters (Horry, Smith, Mad Max, Elie, Cassell, Drexler), while poor DRob was being doubled and had little in the way of help.

[Knoxxx]

He's a gamer that's part of his charm. If he wasn't he'd probably have hung it up after the 2013 disaster or chronic injury status years before.

I was fine with Manu playing for the national team IF HEALTHY. Any doubt and no way. He's already earned an Olympic Gold medal and it's not like a repeat is going to happen, let it go already and concentrate on an NBA championship repeat which is still well within his grasp.

[100%duncan]

This is good news to me.. It means I can now cheer 100% for Gilas (we are in the same 1st round bracket with Argentina) & with Manu resting, more chances for the Spurs to repeat.

This 2013-2014 Spurs team will still be team to beat next season.

Gilas won't win a game :lol

[littlecoyotecoin]

lol last post on this. The "option" isn't an hypotetical. Actually *using* said "option" is an hypothetical. Until he does that, and he removes the Spurs from the picture, he's bound to the Spurs' decision.

On THAT we can agree. That's what I was saying the whole time! Sorry for the delay, had to rinse some of the stink of this thread off me in the shower. Another g'nite. Take care all.

[TMTTRIO]

I'm happy he's not playing but the Spurs should've expected this when they went ahead and tried to resign him. He already said he was serious about retiring when they asked him back. Of course he wants to finish with the NT team that helped him get his career started.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Even though we disagree on some takes, it's been fun voicing opinions and getting feedback. Take it easy LCC. :toast

You, too!

[baseline bum]

Leandro Ginobili ‏@Leaginobili 11 min
Les dejo una frase antes de irme a dormir: no está muerto quien pelea...

I don't speak Mexican. Is he trying to sell you silver?

[benstanfield]

It's the basketball "world cup" who the fuck cares? Olympics is the flagship international bball competition, just because it's called the "world cup" and happens the same year as the soccer world cup people are going to start caring? This is only marginally more of a big deal then a team asking a star not to play in the Drew League.

The winner of three out of the last six FIBA World Cups was Yugoslavia. Spare me.

[024]

The fuck are the Manu trolls even arguing? Ginobili is obviously injured and even the Argentinian doctor said the test results were inconclusive. I remember a few years ago Ellis was injured in a mo-ped accident and was suspended almost half the season. So yes, teams can dictate what you do outside of the NBA. If the player is taking an unnecessary risk, teams have a right to stop the player. If the player doesn't listen, he gets suspended.

[jag]

Manu will now intentionally throw the NBA Finals as revenge if we make them next year.

Too late. He already sabotaged the 2013 Finals.

[Chinook]

I think people are misunderstanding what is happening here. Unless something big changed, NBA teams cannot actually disallow a player participating in international play. This is why Cuban always complains about it and has to talk Dirk into opting out of the German National Team. So the Spurs can't just tell Ginobili that he can't play. What they can (and could always) do is warn him that they will terminate his deal if he gets (more) hurt during the tournament or sue him for damages. This is pretty standard practice for every team.

Usually, insurance companies are willing to insure a player, so the teams have no financial leverage. But with Ginobili already having a broken leg, I doubt anyone will insure him. So he has to hope the Spurs are willing to trust him to not get further injured by playing next month. Obviously they don't. There's not much Ginobili can do besides negotiate with Pop and RC. Unless I misunderstood the situation myself, there's really nothing to appeal. If Manu either convinces the Spurs he won't actually play a lot this summer or is willing to forfeit next year's salary if he gets hurt, he'll get to go. If not, he won't.

Also, the Finals argument that was circling about a few pages ago is misguided. The Spurs were willing to let Ginobili play hurt during the Finals because they were paying him. They were willing to absorb the risk of him getting hurt since they benefited from him playing. They get no such utility in this case. There's nothing hypocritical about their stance. They were willing to risk $7 Million to win a title for themselves, and they weren't willing to for Manu to have a swan song with his national team.

[chasky]

Manu don't look worried about the harvey tweet:

493974580965670913

[chasky]

The numer 5 is in the cake, lol, Manu is going to play in the WC. I'm sure!

493971310180331520

[ElNono]

I think people are misunderstanding what is happening here. Unless something big changed, NBA teams cannot actually disallow a player participating in international play. This is why Cuban always complains about it and has to talk Dirk into opting out of the German National Team. So the Spurs can't just tell Ginobili that he can't play. What they can (and could always) do is warn him that they will terminate his deal if he gets (more) hurt during the tournament or sue him for damages. This is pretty standard practice for every team.

Incorrect. The FIBA-NBA Agreement stipulates (Section C, Clause I): "Players are not authorized to practice or compete with their National Teams when there's a reasonable medical condition that might create a substantial risk of injury, disease or other damage" (I translated this from Spanish, it might not be word for word the actual text, but I couldn't find a copy of the agreement on the internets).

The FIBA-NBA Agreement is well known, since it's also the one that stipulates that players are required to obtain insurance (when healthy).

[Kindergarten Cop]

Also, the Finals argument that was circling about a few pages ago is misguided. The Spurs were willing to let Ginobili play hurt during the Finals because they were paying him. They were willing to absorb the risk of him getting hurt since they benefited from him playing. They get no such utility in this case. There's nothing hypocritical about their stance. They were willing to risk $7 Million to win a title for themselves, and they weren't willing to for Manu to have a swan song with his national team.

My last take on this: The fact that they were willing to "risk" anything has little to do with it being hypocritical. Manu was in fact injured - the degree that they knew can be debated, but the injury itself cannot. They chose to let him play in the Finals because it benefited them and they do not want him to play in the World Cup because they have nothing to gain (and everything to lose) - it seems that we agree on that.

Hypocrisy is defined as: behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel.

If the Spurs honestly feel that Manu cannot and should not play basketball because of the risk of injury, he should not have been able to play in the Finals. Now, am I glad that they let him play in the Finals? ABSOLUTELY! Am I glad they're wanting him to sit out the summer? Again, ABSOLUTELY!

Just because one benefits from doing something hypocritical, doesn't negate the hypocrisy. In fact, isn't that why most people DO act hypocritical? They stand strongly to their beliefs and morals - until the opportunity presents itself where they benefit greatly from doing otherwise. Haven't you learned anything from politics? ;)

[hater]

put that mofo in his place imo

[davidbowie]

The numer 5 is in the cake, lol, Manu is going to play in the WC. I'm sure!

493971310180331520

Aww now I feel bad. LET HIM PLAY!!!

[Mikeanaro]

WONT PLAYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!
Well maybe he will after all he can just appear there and say IM MANU GINOBILI 4xNBA CHAMPION NOW MOVE FAGGY!
Even if he is sued by the entire Spurs Organization he is so fucking stubborn that you can never know.

[Russo21]

Good news. Spurs have a duty of care to protect their players and assets and made the right decision. It Is the Spurs who are giving Manu 7 million this season, they have to protect their 7 million $ asset. If Manu was to play, got injured and miss the NBA season would Manu forfeit that 7 million? Don't think so. NBA is a business. You don't just hand someone 7 million bux then have them go out and risk further damage to an existing injury and then miss the season. Time to rest and heal. Spurs are the employer, Manu is an employee. That's business.

[chasky]

Good news. Spurs have a duty of care to protect their players and assets and made the right decision. It Is the Spurs who are giving Manu 7 million this season, they have to protect their 7 million $ asset. If Manu was to play, got injured and miss the NBA season would Manu forfeit that 7 million? Don't think so. NBA is a business. You don't just hand someone 7 million bux then have them go out and risk further damage to an existing injury and then miss the season. Time to rest and heal. Spurs are the employer, Manu is an employee. That's business.

That is better, is a good argument. (?) Spurs Family my ass!

[howbouthemspurs]

Gotta love them trolls! :lol

Spurs did the right thing.

[chasky]

That is family, not the Spurs family how send letters.

493971310180331520

[BatManu20]

Manu don't look worried about the harvey tweet:

493974580965670913

Those hoodies are pretty sick tbh.

[T Park]

This is how the Spurs organization treats the players that have done so much for them... Well....Lack of class!

Playing for your national team is the biggest thing for an international player, you should respect that.



Tough shit

[Juggity]

That is family, not the Spurs family how send letters.

493971310180331520

are you a real person tbh? :lol

It's hard to imagine anyone getting this upset about the spurs holding a 37 year old Manu with a broken leg out of the FIBA tournament...It's not like the spurs are holding him out of the tournament to spite him. He's injured. If the spurs had known he had an injury as serious as a fractured leg in the NBA finals, no doubt they would've held him out or at the very least strongly considered it/limited his minutes significantly. It's a no-brainer to keep him from hurting himself further here when the potential for aggravating such an injury is so strong. Manu goes all-out, especially in international play. That's what we love about him as a player. He'll play through any injury as long as he can still walk. He has no "50% effort" switch — it's all or nothing. That's dangerous for a guy with a broken leg. Best to have him rest and heal.

[Mikeanaro]

are you a real person tbh? :lol

It's hard to imagine anyone getting this upset about the spurs holding a 37 year old Manu with a broken leg out of the FIBA tournament...It's not like the spurs are holding him out of the tournament to spite him. He's injured. If the spurs had known he had an injury as serious as a fractured leg in the NBA finals, no doubt they would've held him out or at the very least strongly considered it/limited his minutes significantly. It's a no-brainer to keep him from hurting himself further here when the potential for aggravating such an injury is so strong. Manu goes all-out, especially in international play. That's what we love about him as a player. He'll play through any injury as long as he can still walk. He has no "50% effort" switch — it's all or nothing. That's dangerous for a guy with a broken leg. Best to have him rest and heal.
When he was a kid a truck parked on top of his head... things were never the same again.

[HI-FI]

major props to the Spurs FO. I hope Manu doesn't pout about this like the Manutards are already doing.

[mingus]

Chances are he'll have more opportunities in the future to play with NT. This will be the last year for the big 3 though. I was talking to someone the other day that's clued me that this will be Manu's last year in the NBA. Take it for what it's worth, but I trust the guy. His friend owns a restaurant that Manu frequents and he pretty much said this was it.

[Arcadian]

Manu helps the spurs win number 5 and this is how they show their appreciation?

He's not off the hook yet. He needs to win us one more, and then he can do whatever the hell he wants with his body.

[Uriel]

If the Spurs win #6, this thread should be bumped as one of the reasons why, tbh.

[TrainOfThought5]

Fuck off! I don't want another 2013 Finals Manu.

[littlecoyotecoin]

There were actually reports (and some posters actually pointed it out) that he was limping noticeably after Game 3 and 4 of the Finals...

And, for someone that is such a stickler for detail, limping is not the equivalent of knowing he has a broken leg. The team may not have wanted to know the extent as long as he was willing to play, but they do have plausible deniability.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Popularity-wise, Manu is one if the top 3 Spurs. I would never disrespect Manu's game as he has a unique game that we won't see again for another 30 years. But David Robinson is on another level. We haven't seen a big man that can do the things he did. Just bc Hakeem, another rare superstar got the better of him in a playoff series shouldn't sully David's outstanding career. We wouldn't win 1999 without David. That said, as a person, I consider Manu his equal, which is probably the best compliment.

David was a more freakish athlete, Manu was the better basketball player. David didn't start playing until later as a kid, and it always seemed to show.

[Pocho La Pantera]

what?ok, I get it. If Manu was in his prime I'd have been very mad, but that is not the case.

[Perry Mason]

A letter? Pretty insulting if true.

Are people joking with this? Letters remain the principle form of business communication. They can be delivered electronically of course, but physical copies are still the gold standard for formal communication. And in many ways they are more private and can be as personal as you want them.

[cd98]

David was a more freakish athlete, Manu was the better basketball player. David didn't start playing until later as a kid, and it always seemed to show.
Actually David was a highly skilled big man. Sure he's not as behind the back dribbler or a great three point shooter, but 7 footers in that era dominated on the block. David was a good post up player and had a good mid range jumper and was a highly skilled defender even after he lost his athleticism.

[SouthernFried]

I wouldn't be surprised if MANU asked for this. Which gives him an out from playing..."The Spurs forced me not to play."

With the state of the Argentinian basketball program (there was a chance Scola, Ginobili, and the rest were going to boycott it anyway)...coupled with his injury...I wouldn't be surprised at all if Manu just decided to let the Spurs take the blame. Which the Spurs would gladly do for him.

[SupremeGuy]

are you a real person tbh? :lol

It's hard to imagine anyone getting this upset about the spurs holding a 37 year old Manu with a broken leg out of the FIBA tournament...It's not like the spurs are holding him out of the tournament to spite him. He's injured. If the spurs had known he had an injury as serious as a fractured leg in the NBA finals, no doubt they would've held him out or at the very least strongly considered it/limited his minutes significantly. It's a no-brainer to keep him from hurting himself further here when the potential for aggravating such an injury is so strong. Manu goes all-out, especially in international play. That's what we love about him as a player. He'll play through any injury as long as he can still walk. He has no "50% effort" switch — it's all or nothing. That's dangerous for a guy with a broken leg. Best to have him rest and heal.Excellent post, tbh.

[littlecoyotecoin]

please stop kicking the corpse buddy, it's disrespectful

To be fair, I only kept replying when hypocrisy was mentioned. Employers, by the very nature of the relationship, get to be hypocritical. Sorry to sound so redundant, but the hypocrisy mantra was grating, to me.

[ManuGinobiliArg]

In Argentina you can not ban a player to represent his country even when in full competition, the priority is ARGENTINA SELECT.

something you do not understand.

They will break the spirit of Manu, depues many years in the spurs will send a letter in his day ban birthday?? too bad about the leaders of the Spurs!

[littlecoyotecoin]

Yeah. People love to conveniently forget that Hakeem was being single-covered because he was surrounded by shooters (Horry, Smith, Mad Max, Elie, Cassell, Drexler), while poor DRob was being doubled and had little in the way of help.

And people forget how poorly DRob passed out of double teams sometimes, too.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I'm happy he's not playing but the Spurs should've expected this when they went ahead and tried to resign him. He already said he was serious about retiring when they asked him back. Of course he wants to finish with the NT team that helped him get his career started.

He's not THAT serious. And, I'm sure they're not surprised. They were prepared. Had the stationery ready.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Actually David was a highly skilled big man. Sure he's not as behind the back dribbler or a great three point shooter, but 7 footers in that era dominated on the block. David was a good post up player and had a good mid range jumper and was a highly skilled defender even after he lost his athleticism.

I always found his mid-range jumper lacking. Especially when we needed it the most. And, I'm not saying he wasn't a highly skilled big man. But, when you are differentiating between very good players, elite players, you have to look at skills that they only did "well" as "weaknesses" when evaluating greatness. He had a good but not great jump shot. He was an adequate passer, but not great, and he didn't have the finesse and touch around the basket that a Duncan and Diaw have.

[littlecoyotecoin]

My last take on this: The fact that they were willing to "risk" anything has little to do with it being hypocritical. Manu was in fact injured - the degree that they knew can be debated, but the injury itself cannot. They chose to let him play in the Finals because it benefited them and they do not want him to play in the World Cup because they have nothing to gain (and everything to lose) - it seems that we agree on that.

Hypocrisy is defined as: behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel.

If the Spurs honestly feel that Manu cannot and should not play basketball because of the risk of injury, he should not have been able to play in the Finals. Now, am I glad that they let him play in the Finals? ABSOLUTELY! Am I glad they're wanting him to sit out the summer? Again, ABSOLUTELY!

Just because one benefits from doing something hypocritical, doesn't negate the hypocrisy. In fact, isn't that why most people DO act hypocritical? They stand strongly to their beliefs and morals - until the opportunity presents itself where they benefit greatly from doing otherwise. Haven't you learned anything from politics? ;)

That's a pretty broad definition of hypocrisy. I am sure they are acting in accord with how they think, and feel. They just don't think and feel the same way about him playing while injured for the national team. That's a different situation and you're trying to equate them and then call them hypocritical. They're not equal.

[littlecoyotecoin]

In Argentina you can not ban a player to represent his country even when in full competition, the priority is ARGENTINA SELECT.

something you do not understand.

They will break the spirit of Manu, depues many years in the spurs will send a letter in his day ban birthday?? too bad about the leaders of the Spurs!

This is a forum for Spurs fans.

[Perry Mason]

The NBA is FULL of players who play for the National teams during the offseason. It's not a question of "where he gets his check from", considering that every one of those other players get paid by their NBA teams yet are allowed to represent their countries. Manu is injured, correct. The Spurs can use a clause to prevent him from playing during the offseason, correct. My post that you quoted did not refute either of those at all.

It simply pointed out the hypocrisy that Manu was "allowed" to play in the Playoffs with a freshly broken leg, yet is not healthy enough to play with the same injury 2 1/2 to 3 months later.

This is not hypocrisy. The Spurs negotiated with Manu for exclusivity. They have an exclusive right to prevent his playing internationally if they believe it will adversely affect the Spurs. Manu, being a big boy, agreed to this clause.

Because the right is exclusive, the Spurs don't have to treat Argentina the same way. Hypocrisy is different treatment of the same matter in the same circumstances. Here, the circumstances are not the same.

[EVAY]

1. I'm surprised by the decision, but I don't think it is necessarily a wrong decision.

2. Letters are sent as a means of 'formal' communication. In no way does the existence of a letter imply that phone calls or personal communications were not the
primary method of letting Manu know about the decision. Suggestions to the contrary are extremely naive, imo.


3. I just can't get the picture out of my mind of Manu on a balcony somewhere belting out the theme song from EVITA. sorry. Just can't get it out of my mind.

[littlecoyotecoin]

This is not hypocrisy. The Spurs negotiated with Manu for exclusivity. They have an exclusive right to prevent his playing internationally if they believe it will adversely affect the Spurs. Manu, being a big boy, agreed to this clause.

Because the right is exclusive, the Spurs don't have to treat Argentina the same way. Hypocrisy is different treatment of the same matter in the same circumstances. Here, the circumstances are not the same.

There's a mellifluous echo in here! Even better, The Spurs didn't even have to negotiate for the clause they used, if I understand it, it was negotiated by the league in the CBA.

[ManuGinobiliArg]

This is a forum for Spurs fans.

Manu will PLAY in Fiba Tournament!

[elemento]

Great news. That was absolutely the right move to do.

Fuck that Argie BB Federation full of corruption. Spurs 1st, then the rest.

[xmas1997]

Manu will PLAY in Fiba Tournament!

Since when?

[diego]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2014/07/02/report-ginobili-likely-to-miss-world-cup-with-stress-fracture/

"The fracture was discovered during a routine postseason physical, according to a league source, and began bothering the 36-year-old guard at some point during the Spurs’ run in Western Conference playoffs. By the end of the Spurs’ march to a championship, Ginobili could often be seen limping noticeably after games."

http://deadspin.com/did-manu-ginobili-dunk-on-chris-bosh-with-a-stress-frac-1599437065

"Spurs Nation narrowed down that "late in San Antonio's championship season" with a source who said Ginobili played with a stress fracture in his leg through at least the Finals. So, yes, old-ass Manu Ginobili, with a fractured leg, dunked on Chris Bosh. Damn, Manu."

Quote from manu's press conference in argentina, after the finals:

"I really dont know the original of the injury. Ive been carrying the pain for two or three months, but I was examined and nothing came up, so I kept playing. "

The spurs knew he was hurting. Pop even joked about it vs okc. The spurs medical staff either did not detect the injury or hid it (either to protect many from headhunters or to keep him on the court). Either way this situation reflects very poorly on them; its not that manu knew he was playing with a stress fracture, he just knew he was banged up. The specialist and Argentina NT docs say he can play. Manu says he feels much better ("before it hurt just to touch, not anymore"). I expect manu to fight this, and if he feels he is being screwed over he may very well resign his contract; contrary to what many people here think, manu is not motivated by money, nor pressures from argentina. He is motivated by basketball and his teammates, and if he feels the spurs aren't being fair he may well decide he rather go out on his own terms.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Quote from manu's press conference in argentina, after the finals:

"I really dont know the original of the injury. Ive been carrying the pain for two or three months, but I was examined and nothing came up, so I kept playing. "

The spurs knew he was hurting. Pop even joked about it vs okc. The spurs medical staff either did not detect the injury or hid it (either to protect many from headhunters or to keep him on the court). Either way this situation reflects very poorly on them; its not that manu knew he was playing with a stress fracture, he just knew he was banged up. The specialist and Argentina NT docs say he can play. Manu says he feels much better ("before it hurt just to touch, not anymore"). I expect manu to fight this, and if he feels he is being screwed over he may very well resign his contract; contrary to what many people here think, manu is not motivated by money, nor pressures from argentina. He is motivated by basketball and his teammates, and if he feels the spurs aren't being fair he may well decide he rather go out on his own terms.

They did not detect it. You realize the rest is just speculation and conjecture posited as facts? Right? You haven't proved anything. Conspiracy theory. Manu said he didn't know when it happened and there was no diagnosis. He's always sore. We don't call him El Contusion for no reason. And, of course money isn't his only motivation, but he doesn't play for free, either, now does he?

If he decides to leave to play FIBA that's his prerogative. I won't cry over it. He's at the end of his career. How he decides to finish is fine. But, you're not going to hold me hostage over it. We can bring in a good player for 7 million. He won't be as good as Manu, but he probably won't be as old, either.

[MB20]

I expect manu to fight this, and if he feels he is being screwed over he may very well resign his contract; contrary to what many people here think, manu is not motivated by money, nor pressures from argentina. He is motivated by basketball and his teammates, and if he feels the spurs aren't being fair he may well decide he rather go out on his own terms.

Not gonna happen. He won´t resign his contract.

Manu is motivated to play in FIBA because he wants to play with his longtime friends from the NT. Nothing else.
Not for the argie bb federation, or the fans, or whatever.
He just enjoys playing with those teammates. Some of them have been playing together for 20 years!
People who say "fuck argentina", don´t understand that the federation has nothing to do in Manu´s decisión.

If the Spurs say no, Manu will be upset, but not to the point of throwing everything away.

[Marhq]

This seems to be the situation so far, according to some journalists close to Manu:

- The Spurs have not made their decision official. Just like a month ago, when RC leaked the news of Manu's injury, he again went through his contacts in the press to put pressure on him and avoid the need for a formal refusal.

- They sent Manu an e-mail "advising" him not to play.

- Manu is fighting the decision.

My personal feeling is that Manu sees this lack of an official refusal as room for negotiation i.e. if the Spurs were final on their decision they would have said so on the record. I think he may be right on that, but at the same time I think it's possible that RC believes that a formal denial is too harsh or awkward, considering Manu's long history with the Spurs, and that this series of press leaks and friendly pieces of advice are a more tactful way of dealing with the issue.

I don't see Manu retiring or trying to negotiate a new contract for less money in order to play. I also don't buy the conspiracy theories about this being an elaborate ruse to free Manu of his NT duties. This is not the first time that this happened: with the 2010 WC approaching, the Spurs tried to talk Manu out of the tournament and they succeeded. Manu stepped down from the NT and nobody tried to burn down his house. By that time ARG fans knew what Manu was all about and one decision was not going to change that. Spurs fans should know that as well.

Saludos.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Not gonna happen. He won´t resign his contract.

Manu is motivated to play in FIBA because he wants to play with his longtime friends from the NT. Nothing else.
Not for the argie bb federation, or the fans, or whatever.
He just enjoys playing with those teammates. Some of them have been playing together for 20 years!
People who say "fuck argentina", don´t understand that the federation has nothing to do in Manu´s decisión.

If the Spurs say no, Manu will be upset, but not to the point of throwing everything away.

And, I am sure he also loves playing with his Spurs teammates, so he will not cut off his nose to spite his face.

[MB20]

And, I am sure he also loves playing with his Spurs teammates, so he will not cut off his nose to spite his face.

Of course he enjoys playing the his Spurs teammates too. No doubt about it.
He enjoys playing. Period.

Manu is not stupid. He will not risk his body. If he is injured, he will be the first person to step down from the NT. He has earned the right to say NO to the NT whenever he wants.

[cd98]

Not sure why Argentina fans want to see Manu play in a tournament that many star players are ditching. I get the desire to play with teammates, but risking your long term health for a tournament you have little chance of winning and that will provide no actual benefit in terms of a spot at the Olympics makes little sense. They are better off if he rests and gets himself ready for the Olympics, where he most likely will not be under contract and probably be retired from the NBA and he can have one last chance to play in a tournament that actually means something. I would think Argentina fans would rather see him win NBA title no. 5 rather than lose in the semifinals of the FIBA tournament. Manu is a player, and true players always want to play, even through injury. But he needs someone that is not caught in the emotion to make the right decision for his career.

[ducks]

I think people are misunderstanding what is happening here. Unless something big changed, NBA teams cannot actually disallow a player participating in international play. This is why Cuban always complains about it and has to talk Dirk into opting out of the German National Team. So the Spurs can't just tell Ginobili that he can't play. What they can (and could always) do is warn him that they will terminate his deal if he gets (more) hurt during the tournament or sue him for damages. This is pretty standard practice for every team.

Usually, insurance companies are willing to insure a player, so the teams have no financial leverage. But with Ginobili already having a broken leg, I doubt anyone will insure him. So he has to hope the Spurs are willing to trust him to not get further injured by playing next month. Obviously they don't. There's not much Ginobili can do besides negotiate with Pop and RC. Unless I misunderstood the situation myself, there's really nothing to appeal. If Manu either convinces the Spurs he won't actually play a lot this summer or is willing to forfeit next year's salary if he gets hurt, he'll get to go. If not, he won't.

Also, the Finals argument that was circling about a few pages ago is misguided. The Spurs were willing to let Ginobili play hurt during the Finals because they were paying him. They were willing to absorb the risk of him getting hurt since they benefited from him playing. They get no such utility in this case. There's nothing hypocritical about their stance. They were willing to risk $7 Million to win a title for themselves, and they weren't willing to for Manu to have a swan song with his national team.
if the player is injured according to jeff McDonald spurs are within the rules to disallow a player to play

[Clipper Nation]

DRob was the franchise before Tim was here...

Manu is top 5 all time in the Spurs, and for a kid that comes from the ass side of the world, that's frankly amazing. He did everything with hard, hard work and basketball smarts. He wasn't blessed with an out of this world body or athleticism, and yet he managed to be at the top of the game. He will be missed when he hangs them up and the Spurs will be worse for it. But father time is undefeated - but please still give my client the max, Peter!
fify

[FireMicoHalili]

To be fair, I only kept replying when hypocrisy was mentioned. Employers, by the very nature of the relationship, get to be hypocritical. Sorry to sound so redundant, but the hypocrisy mantra was grating, to me.
oh no lol I was enjoying the whole ordeal, please keep doing the voodoo that you do so well

[ManuGinobiliArg]

The Spurs Manu-conflict: our humble opinion


Manu wants to play the World Cup with Argentina and from San Antonio will "suggest" that do not.

The injury still exists but is he serious? Keep you from playing the world in a month? The team doctor, Dr. Diego Grippo studies confirmed that giving him well and is on track to heal. Therefore, to continue his recovery Ginobili should have no physical problems for the World Cup.


That said, we believe that the position of San Antonio in a logical and expected. They want one of their stars be healthy, rested and all batteries to start a new season. They know that if Manu plays the world runs the risk of injury and does not hold many physical games in a row, as the format of the World does not help: consecutive rest.

San Antonio looks after its capital, not to risk. They want to keep winning and for that they need to play Gino fully as he did this season that won the championship.


If there is a verifiable injury, there is a clause that the NBA team gives him the power to deny participation to FIBA player as this global competition. So it's not illegal or anything like that is happening.


What seems unfair (from our perspective) is not to trust the judgment of Manu, as we believe that if he says he is fit to play, is because it really is so. We all know of their professionalism, commitment and experience. San Antonio Why not trust your word? Do not know, but there is a history of a similar situation in 2008 Ginobili felt about pain in his ankle since he suggested not play the Olympics this year. Manu finally decided to play in Beijing and resisted his injury.


It also does not seem adapting been reported as news, as both the lesion as yesterday's news, surfaced tweets SA journalists. Is not it better to do so official voices?


After so many years (and titles) of this "relationship" Ginobili San Antonio, why not let him play and ready? But knowing he is about to retire and have already won everything (and recently).


That said and more whatever the outcome of this situation, we must not lose sight of these things:

Be grateful for everything you did and does Manu for Argentina national team. Not only the amazing titles that got near the Golden Generation, but also his commitment to the team. At 37, after a long season / demanding held in San Antonio and also with a newborn child; as comfortable and reasonable would have deserved break to share your time with your family.


We value AGAIN AND AGAIN, WE BE GRATEFUL, GINOBILI MANU EN ARGENTINA. THANKS GENIUS! infomanu!

[ElNono]

ARG coach included Manu in the shortlist of 15 players today...

[slick'81]

ARG coach included Manu in the shortlist of 15 players today...


ugh let it go lol

[ElNono]

ugh let it go lol

:lol

[Chomag]

Hes going to play I can see it coming. Manu has been very admit over this whole situation.

[littlecoyotecoin]

:lol

I included him in my short list of players I want The Spurs to cut, so he can pursue his dream.

[ElNono]

I included him in my short list of players I want The Spurs to cut, so he can pursue his dream.

He's not going anywhere

[ElNono]

Regardless of the whole list thing, AFAIK, he's not practicing with the team, and the NT has not secured insurance for him either, until the situation with the Spurs is official.

[spurraider21]

:lmao Did Robinson, Gervin, Elliott and Kenon stop existing or something?
Manu is easily ahead of Elliott and Kenon on the Spurs totem pole

[littlecoyotecoin]

He's not going anywhere

A man can dream.

[SupremeGuy]

lol argentinians desperately trying to spin the situation

It's over. The Spurs decided. Deal with it.

[Dre_7]

What seems unfair (from our perspective) is not to trust the judgment of Manu, as we believe that if he says he is fit to play, is because it really is so. We all know of their professionalism, commitment and experience. San Antonio Why not trust your word? Do not know, but there is a history of a similar situation in 2008 Ginobili felt about pain in his ankle since he suggested not play the Olympics this year. Manu finally decided to play in Beijing and resisted his injury.

Not sure how much I would trust Manu's judgement on whether or not he can play. One of the (many) things I LOVE about Manu, is his competitiveness and love for the game. I would expect him to play through pain because that's Manu. He has done it many times (the elbow, broken nose, and undiagnosed stress fracture this year, etc). He needs to be told not to play if it could risk a more serious injury.

It is a tough sitution, but whatever the Spurs decide after looking at the medical results will be the right decision.

[Marhq]

The latest I'm reading from a few journalists is that the Spurs' decision is final: Manu will not play. The only reason it's still not official is that they want to end this in "good terms" (meaning: they want Manu to step down, as if it was his own decision). Manu wants to fight, says this is more of the same, but he is on the losing side in this one and the Spurs will ban him from playing if they need to.

Saludos.

[Obstructed_View]

What seems unfair (from our perspective) is not to trust the judgment of Manu, as we believe that if he says he is fit to play, is because it really is so.

http://img.deseretnews.com/images/article/midres/448082/448082.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0426/espn_g_ginobli01_300.jpg

The man just dunked on Chris Bosh in spectacular fashion on a stress fracture. We may not have known it was there, but be sure that Manu did.

Manu will play as long as you let him.

I'm sure it's been mentioned a bunch of times, but the other reason you don't leave it to his judgment is because the Argie fans think, after everything he's done for the national team, that he owes it to them to play. He doesn't.

[ViceCity84]

Argentina loses again...World Cup and now this.

[xmas1997]

Argentina loses again...World Cup and now this.

Argentina had no chance this time anyway, they don't have near the talent they had in years past even if they had Manu playing.

[Obstructed_View]

Argentina had no chance this time anyway, they don't have near the talent they had in years past even if they had Manu playing.

When they were a world Power, Manu was their best player. Manu is still their best player a decade later.

[hater]

Manu is a piece of shit if all this rumors are true

faggot just want's to look like a hero in front of the Argentards imo

[Mikeanaro]

Fatsola is the captain, they still will win it all :lmao not worried here.

[Baam]

Pretty sickening stuff tbh not matter how you put it, great way to lose the edge they had with international players...

Meanwhile they have no problem paying Mills to sit out at least half the season, but not Manu it seems...

[Sean Cagney]

Manu is a piece of shit if all this rumors are true

faggot just want's to look like a hero in front of the Argentards imo

What rumors exactly besides speculation on a message board may I ask? I don't see any.

[dabom]

Pretty sickening stuff tbh not matter how you put it, great way to lose the edge they had with international players...

Meanwhile they have no problem paying Mills to sit out at least half the season, but not Manu it seems...

Dude is 37 years old and injured. You don't heal as if your young anymore. I don't see the problem.

[dabom]

What rumors exactly besides speculation on a message board may I ask? I don't see any.

His name says Hater. You should ignore him.

[Mikeanaro]

What rumors exactly besides speculation on a message board may I ask? I don't see any.
He is a distressed flatulence bag that never gets enough so his main goal is to use this place as an attention whore/troll and got short of new material long time ago, I would love to see if someone here makes a poll asking people if he is a violette dickhead, because if the poll says YES then you know... the rumors are true.

[gilmor]

I always found his mid-range jumper lacking. Especially when we needed it the most. And, I'm not saying he wasn't a highly skilled big man. But, when you are differentiating between very good players, elite players, you have to look at skills that they only did "well" as "weaknesses" when evaluating greatness. He had a good but not great jump shot. He was an adequate passer, but not great, and he didn't have the finesse and touch around the basket that a Duncan and Diaw have.

Sometimes when you talk about a player like David Robinson, you don't talk about skills alone. David Robinson is the sole reason that Spurs exist in the first place when they entered into lottery and drafted Tim Duncan. So for a franchise like Spurs, David Robinson means a lot. Plus he has done so much for the community and gave back to the Spurs. In my opinion, David is the reason why Spurs is what it is nowadays, 5 championships and all.. It all started with the Admiral..

[Hemotivo]

I'm sure it's been mentioned a bunch of times, but the other reason you don't leave it to his judgment is because the Argie fans think, after everything he's done for the national team, that he owes it to them to play. He doesn't.

:nope

[littlecoyotecoin]

Sometimes when you talk about a player like David Robinson, you don't talk about skills alone. David Robinson is the sole reason that Spurs exist in the first place when they entered into lottery and drafted Tim Duncan. So for a franchise like Spurs, David Robinson means a lot. Plus he has done so much for the community and gave back to the Spurs. In my opinion, David is the reason why Spurs is what it is nowadays, 5 championships and all.. It all started with the Admiral..

A lot of those things could be said about Red McCombs. However, I don't take them into consideration when judging Red McCombs' basketball abilities. He pretty much sucks all around.

[hater]

He is a distressed flatulence bag that never gets enough so his main goal is to use this place as an attention whore/troll and got short of new material long time ago, I would love to see if someone here makes a poll asking people if he is a violette dickhead, because if the poll says YES then you know... the rumors are true.

:lol feel free to try and make that poll nigga. Better ppl than you have tried that and failed :lol

[Mikeanaro]

Sorry Jeiter cant see your post I have you in my ignore list so I dont give 2 fucks about what you can say, go eat dick.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Pretty sickening stuff tbh not matter how you put it, great way to lose the edge they had with international players...

Meanwhile they have no problem paying Mills to sit out at least half the season, but not Manu it seems...

One of the reasons they needed to be more firm is BECAUSE Patty is sitting out. If doctors deemed Manu needed surgery after the finals do you really think The Spurs would have "had a problem with it"? Of course not. What kind of arguments are these.

[Obstructed_View]

:nope

So, you don't think he'd catch a ton of flack from the Argentine fans if he tried not to play, or you think he DOES owe it to them to play even though he's aging and banged up?

[leo_d]

he will catch some flack from soccer fans and sport writers, trying to some how put a negative note to Manu´s accomplishments, but not a ton of flack, basketball is not that important in Argentina.

I mean a week ago the entire team said they will not play the WC if the argentinian federation didn´t allow accounting auditories, and that was a side note in the news, if the soccer team would have made such a menace, the country would have been set on fire in hours.

Manu wants to play for himself and his teammates, not for the pressure or the fans.

[Kindergarten Cop]

That's a pretty broad definition of hypocrisy. I am sure they are acting in accord with how they think, and feel. They just don't think and feel the same way about him playing while injured for the national team. That's a different situation and you're trying to equate them and then call them hypocritical. They're not equal.

It's actually Webster's definition of hypocrisy, but I digress.

Enough time is already been spent discussing and debating the hypocrisy issue - and I recognize that I am guilty of keeping an issue that many of us are obviously not going to agree on alive. In all honesty, it's not even that compelling of a subject - I, myself, just got caught up in the debate. As I've said repeatedly, I am actually in favor of how things have turned out. Manu sitting out the summer, forced or not, is in the best interest of the Spurs organization, as well as the fans of the of the team. A healthy Manu could be the difference between us repeating this year and not - especially considering that without Manu this past year, I'm not sure we beat Miami.

I'm good with agreeing to disagree and moving on from this - and on to the next insignificant and nonsensical subject. :toast

[littlecoyotecoin]

It's actually Webster's definition of hypocrisy, but I digress.

Enough time is already been spent discussing and debating the hypocrisy issue - and I recognize that I am guilty of keeping an issue that many of us are obviously not going to agree on alive. In all honesty, it's not even that compelling of a subject - I, myself, just got caught up in the debate. As I've said repeatedly, I am actually in favor of how things have turned out. Manu sitting out the summer, forced or not, is in the best interest of the Spurs organization, as well as the fans of the of the team. A healthy Manu could be the difference between us repeating this year and not - especially considering that without Manu this past year, I'm not sure we beat Miami.

I'm good with agreeing to disagree and moving on from this - and on to the next insignificant and nonsensical subject. :toast

I didn't say it was not valid. I said it was broad. I was trying to be kind in saying that it didn't support your argument. And, someone else quickly pointed out exactly what I was going to say, based upon that definition (that the conditions were not the same, so it failed to be hypocrisy). But, you're right. Some of us will never agree on that subject, apparently. A lot of those that disagree with the decision are not Spurs fans, but Manu fans, from Argentina, and they'll be gone soon. The remaining will have to find a way to get along. I can get along with you. We're cool. :toast

[DAF86]

So, you don't think he'd catch a ton of flack from the Argentine fans if he tried not to play, or you think he DOES owe it to them to play even though he's aging and banged up?

Outside a very few dumbfucks nobody would say shit to Manu. He just wants to play 'cause he has some kind of crazy love with playing basketball, tbh. After 20 years of it one would assume that fire would extinguish a little.

[barbacoataco]

Manu wants to play and maybe he will. He might play limited minutes.

[Obstructed_View]

Outside a very few dumbfucks nobody would say shit to Manu.
I think the real basketball fans know what he's given for his country and what he's meant to the sport. You guys are still not the majority. The dumbfucks in a country can be really loud and influential, even in small numbers.

[Cherry]

he will catch some flack from soccer fans and sport writers, trying to some how put a negative note to Manu´s accomplishments, but not a ton of flack, basketball is not that important in Argentina.

I mean a week ago the entire team said they will not play the WC if the argentinian federation didn´t allow accounting auditories, and that was a side note in the news, if the soccer team would have made such a menace, the country would have been set on fire in hours.

Manu wants to play for himself and his teammates, not for the pressure or the fans.

THIS.

Fans are more worried about the CABB crisis. The world Cup is not that important.

[AusEM]

Manu said he wanted to play as a kind of "farewell". He wants to say goodbye to the national team in his own terms.

[Obstructed_View]

Regardless of the optics, the Spurs are on the hook for 7 million bucks next year. He can say farewell from the bleachers.

[SupremeGuy]

Posted this earlier or something similar...

It's over. Spurs decided. Get over it.

[Baam]

Regardless of the optics, the Spurs are on the hook for 7 million bucks next year. He can say farewell from the bleachers.

And for 4M for a shooter who is out until March at the very least but they signed him anyway.

The Spurs are more loyal to Mills than to Manu, cant believe this shit :lol...

[dabom]

Why can't Manu be more like Tony?

[Obstructed_View]

And for 4M for a shooter who is out until March at the very least but they signed him anyway.

The Spurs are more loyal to Mills than to Manu, cant believe this shit :lol...

The Spurs paid Manu after he went -20 three times against Miami and had 8 turnovers in game 6. If that's not loyalty, I don't know what is.

Back to the ignore list you go...

[exstatic]

And for 4M for a shooter who is out until March at the very least but they signed him anyway.

The Spurs are more loyal to Mills than to Manu, cant believe this shit :lol...

Patty is smart enough NOT to play NT ball when he's injured. He shut it down and had the surgery he needed to get back ASAP for the Spurs. Manu wouldn't make the same decision, so the Spurs made it for him.

[Diego20]

Manu is going to play the FIBA tournament, imo.

[ElNono]

http://bucket1.clanacion.com.ar/anexos/fotos/89/mundial-de-basquet-1922589w620.jpg

lol forever alone :cry

[hater]

attention whore tbh

Duncan or Parker would not give a fuck about a cameo appearance in a farewell tour team

[hater]

Patty is smart enough NOT to play NT ball when he's injured. He shut it down and had the surgery he needed to get back ASAP for the Spurs. Manu wouldn't make the same decision, so the Spurs made it for him.

don't forget about future GOAT Steven Adams. He's only twentysomething, 100% healthy and wanted to play for his land of the long white cloud team but the Thunder refused. He was happy with his team's decision.

[exstatic]

Manu is going to play the FIBA tournament, imo.

Not if he wants his $7M, he won't.

[chasky]

In August 15 o 20 Manu is healed to the Spurs, Manu is going to play in the WC.

494667795377192961

[barakz21]

http://bucket1.clanacion.com.ar/anexos/fotos/89/mundial-de-basquet-1922589w620.jpg

lol forever alone :cry

I'm not sure if I may have missed something (since I follow Manu on twitter), but has Manu ever said something regarding the spurs' decision not give him clearance? Manu's usually quick to respond to or tweet about certain issues but he seems to be quiet about this one. Unless of course I missed something.

[SilverSpur]

Why doesn't he just travel with the team as a assistant coach? He would be kept from playing and can still help his team.

[ElNono]

I'm not sure if I may have missed something (since I follow Manu on twitter), but has Manu ever said something regarding the spurs' decision not give him clearance? Manu's usually quick to respond to or tweet about certain issues but he seems to be quiet about this one. Unless of course I missed something.

Nope. I just think he's still waiting out for a miracle recovery.

[ElNono]

I think they're going to wait out the 8 weeks the Spurs said it was going to take to recover (around Aug 15), do another study, and send it again to San Antonio...

[Brazil]

:lol offseason

[barakz21]

Nope. I just think he's still waiting out for a miracle recovery.

I see, thanks!

[Mikeanaro]

https://twitter.com/cabboficial
Hes out, some shit Spurs and Fiba agreed makes his comeback impossible, I tried to embed the tweet but thats like asking a deaf to sing, I never use that shit.

[kolko]

This is official: according to the Argentine Basketball Confederation, Manu will not play the World Cup.

http://cabb.com.ar/noticia_ficha.php?id=8035

[ABC]

Thanks kolko. Sounds pretty final.

[will_spurs]

https://twitter.com/cabboficial
Hes out, some shit Spurs and Fiba agreed makes his comeback impossible, I tried to embed the tweet but thats like asking a deaf to sing, I never use that shit.

494815011567861760

494818352737845248

494818629385723904

That translates to:

Manu Ginobili won't play in the World Championship in Spain. The San Antonio Spurs aren't authorizing it, using a clause from the FIBA/NBA agreement because of his injury. The clause specifies that "NBA players aren't allowed to play with their national team if there's a reasonable concern with their health".

[CAPARG]

https://twitter.com/cabboficial/status/494818352737845248

[TE]

https://twitter.com/cabboficial
Hes out, some shit Spurs and Fiba agreed makes his comeback impossible, I tried to embed the tweet but thats like asking a deaf to sing, I never use that shit.
fucked up :lol

Good news nonetheless. Thank god. We won't see another 2013 manu again until he retires

[ManuGinobiliArg]

Manu is not going to the World .... You are happy?? Manu not sure this happy as you!!

[exstatic]

Manu is not going to the World .... You are happy?? Manu not sure this happy as you!!

I'm elated.

[kobyz]

Manu might gonna grudge on us!

[Mikeanaro]

fucked up :lol

Good news nonetheless. Thank god. We won't see another 2013 manu again until he retires
:toast Salute!
Manu played his kiss of death act (Im fine let me play look Im blowing my birthday candles with my teammates my recently defaulted country needs some happiness let me go pleeeeeaaase!!!)but FO didn´t buy it.
Kinda mount splashmore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riiKTQ0lQns

[Fpoonsie]

494835835112816640

[leo_d]

I thought that with the new baby and back to back finals Manu would´ve wanted to rest. But I don´t know why he really wanted to play this WC. I´ve seen him say no to the NT for recomendation of the Spurs but never felt like this one.

You can see that this one was important to him, and even if there is no way he will back down of a 7 million dollar contract, I wonder if this was the right decision for the Spurs best interest, the state of mind in a player is really important, more in a 37 years old one.

You can say that Manu is so competitive that he will always give 100%, but he is also passionate and this decision clearly hurt him.

I wonder if Duncan and Parker said something about the all thing.

[elemento]

Great news

It makes zero sense to play with a serious injury forcing things when you're 37 y/o. It's good for Manu and San Antonio.

[SupremeGuy]

Manu is not going to the World .... You are happy?? Manu not sure this happy as you!!Yes, we're happy. Fuck you. :toast

[buttsR4rebounding]

Manu is a pro. This will have no impact on his play (other than he will be fresher and hopefully more productive). I think he will join the Tim Duncan club this year and get a couple of DNP--Old's.

[Mel_13]

The rules gave Manu the right to play several summers when the Spurs would have preferred to see him rest. The same rules give the Spurs the right to prohibit Manu from playing this summer when he would have preferred to do otherwise.

[EVAY]

There is also a report out that after Manu played wednesday on his leg, it started hurting him again, and the ARGENTINE group decided he couldn't play.

This is and has always been the right decision, but at least now the injury has been tested in practice and found to hurt him by playing. Even the Argentine federation acknowledged it.

The conspiracy theories are not being supported by facts. In any event, as indicated previously, Manu says he will explain everything in his column in La Nacion.

[leo_d]

Manu is a pro. This will have no impact on his play ...

wishfull thinking.

The impacts of this decision are:

1) Argentina will not go far in the WC, but nobody expected otherwise.
2) Manu will collect his 7 million dolars, as he was suppossed to.

3) The Spurs will not repeat because they will trust an italian guy not to take it personally.

The best thing the Spurs can do is trade him before the playoffs.

[EVAY]

3) The Spurs will not repeat because they will trust an italian guy not to take it personally.

The best thing the Spurs can do is trade him before the playoffs.[/QUOTE]


:rollin:rollin

[kaji157]

The rules gave Manu the right to play several summers when the Spurs would have preferred to see him rest. The same rules give the Spurs the right to prohibit Manu from playing this summer when he would have preferred to do otherwise.

I am fucking amazed by the double standard between NBA games and FIBA games.
It was not even a concern when Ginobili played with this injury throughout almost 20 playoff games after it appened in the second game aginst Dallas.
Yet, after he already played that much, quoting him and Pop saying that his injury was minor and unable to affect his play, almost always described as "just some pain in the ankle", it becomes a threatening injury the week after Ginobili announces he will play for Argentina.

If this injury was so serious that he cannot play a game even after SA doctors recovery time is complete (the 8 week period finish at august 15th) wh was he able to play through 21 games inmmediatelly after it happens for the Spurs?

This is a shitty rule it should be as the ASG rule when a player has to be out at least the lattest game of his team in order to be allowed to skip it.

So please posters need to shut the F up about the Spurs being honest and all that shit because they didn´t worry about protecting Manu rght when this happend yet it is a serious threatening injury once they are done compeeting.

[leo_d]

did you know he has double nationality (argentinian and italian), and I really don´t think "Ginobili" is native argentinian last name, but maybe im wrong.

[kaji157]

did you know he has double nationality (argentinian and italian), and I really don´t think "Ginobili" is native argentinian last name, but maybe im wrong.

You are wrong, shut up

[ManuGinobiliArg]

wishfull thinking.

The impacts of this decision are:

1) Argentina will not go far in the WC, but nobody expected otherwise.
2) Manu will collect his 7 million dolars, as he was suppossed to.

3) The Spurs will not repeat because they will trust an italian guy not to take it personally.

The best thing the Spurs can do is trade him before the playoffs.

"Without Manu at a good level, we can not be champions," said Pop

2003, 2005, 2007, 2014

It is the player most beloved franchise and you will have to change you say that, you're an idiot

[Fpoonsie]

I am fucking amazed by the double standard between NBA games and FIBA games.
It was not even a concern when Ginobili played with this injury throughout almost 20 playoff games after it appened in the second game aginst Dallas.
Yet, after he already played that much, quoting him and Pop saying that his injury was minor and unable to affect his play, almost always described as "just some pain in the ankle", it becomes a threatening injury the week after Ginobili announces he will play for Argentina.

If this injury was so serious that he cannot play a game even after SA doctors recovery time is complete (the 8 week period finish at august 15th) wh was he able to play through 21 games inmmediatelly after it happens for the Spurs?

This is a shitty rule it should be as the ASG rule when a player has to be out at least the lattest game of his team in order to be allowed to skip it.

So please posters need to shut the F up about the Spurs being honest and all that shit because they didn´t worry about protecting Manu rght when this happend yet it is a serious threatening injury once they are done compeeting.

A. Spurs pay his salary.
B. You're a faggot.

[leo_d]

You are wrong, shut up

don´t let the facts get in your way, that can be hard.

[leo_d]

"...
It is the player most beloved franchise...

Tim Duncan say hello.

[Mel_13]

I am fucking amazed by the double standard between NBA games and FIBA games.

NBA games are of paramount importance to the Spurs and FIBA games are of no importance to them.

There have been several summers where the Spurs would have preferred to see Manu rest, but the rules prevented them from doing anything about it. They had to suck it up and move on.

This summer, the rules give the Spurs the right to keep Manu from playing. He can't do anything about it (assuming he won't retire from the NBA). He'll suck it up and move on.

[Mikeanaro]

did you know he has double nationality (argentinian and italian), and I really don´t think "Ginobili" is native argentinian last name, but maybe im wrong.
70% of the argentinians have Italian heritage, are you a troll or something?

[xmas1997]

70% of the argentinians have Italian heritage, are you a troll or something?

Yet Spanish is the official language in Argentina, not Italian.
Go figure!

[Mikeanaro]

Yet Spanish is the official language in Argentina, not Italian.
Go figure!
At the beginning Spanish conquerors took the place but since the early 20th century Italians came here to find a better life than World War 1 and 2 could offer, the problem is Argentina is sort of under populated but I have no clue on how almost 70% are Italian descendants.

[ElNono]

Good shit... now get some rest...

[urunobili]

Good news. He'll get over it and in hindsight it may even fuel better play this season :tu

[benefactor]

NBA games are of paramount importance to the Spurs and FIBA games are of no importance to them.

There have been several summers where the Spurs would have preferred to see Manu rest, but the rules prevented them from doing anything about it. They had to suck it up and move on.

This summer, the rules give the Spurs the right to keep Manu from playing. He can't do anything about it (assuming he won't retire from the NBA). He'll suck it up and move on.
The goods. Door swings both ways. Manu has spent plenty of summers playing for his country. No reason to get butthurt because the Spurs are doing the exact same thing Manu has done to them...and Manu should be just as understanding as the Spurs have been.

[Fireball]

hopefully he is not too pissed about that decision ... thankfully Manu is such a fierce competitor that he will forget about that as soon as he is back on the court in a Spurs uniform ... still did not like how all that shit with the several doctors went down

[Virgil]

don´t let the facts get in your way, that can be hard.

Manu was born, raised, and his family lives in Argentina. His mother language is spanish. He played for the argentine national team. He sings the argentine anthem every time. He writes for an argentine newspaper. His passport is argentine, all the charity work he does is argentina related, he is resting in her home town Bahia Blanca, Argentina, most of his closest friends are from argentina, and when playing in the NBA and visiting other cities, he goes out for dinner with his fellow argentine players, not italian...and so on...

[Budkin]

Good. We need Manu fully recovered if we're going to finally repeat.

[Sportman]

Hello everyone, I haven't posted in this forum for quite a few years but I still read the posts and comments spurs' fan make in this website. Last time I posted I think I had quite a heated argument with another fan for my stupidity and stubbornness to defend my sport idol, Manu Ginobili. I am an Argentinean living in Canada and to be honest with all of you I think the Spurs made the right decision by refusing Manu to play the WC. I honestly think that Manu doesn't owe anything to our country, he has been the most successful Basketball player in the history of our nation, from the NT's point of view as well as his NBA career with the Spurs. He is 37 years old and I don't think his body would have endured WC and an entire NBA season. Manu has played consistently throughout the last 15-16 years with our NT and Argentineans should only thank Manu for his commitment and sacrifice to represent our country as well as the Spurs for allowing him to do so. I firmly believe that the Spurs are a model NBA franchise and despite the fact Manu is one of their employees, I am pretty sure that the Spurs are also concerned with his health. Thank you Manu for all that you have given to our Basketball history and thank you to the Spurs for having allowed him to become the player he is.

Cant wait for another NBA season with Messina as assistant coach to Popovich!

[leo_d]

Manu was born, raised, and his family lives in Argentina. His mother language is spanish. He played for the argentine national team. He sings the argentine anthem every time. He writes for an argentine newspaper. His passport is argentine, all the charity work he does is argentina related, he is resting in her home town Bahia Blanca, Argentina, most of his closest friends are from argentina, and when playing in the NBA and visiting other cities, he goes out for dinner with his fellow argentine players, not italian...and so on...

dude you take it to personally, please don´t tell me you, as the "70%" of argentinians, have italian roots, because the irony will be too much.

[Biernutz]

Manu should not play and the Spurs should not have to tell him no. As of Wed. he still had pain in the foot. Why take
a chance of ruining his last season by playing in a FIBA tourney..If it was the Olympics the Spurs would not
have asked him not to play. This is the first time the Spurs have asked any of it's international players not
to play in international ball in the off season. Manu is such a competitor that you have to sit him down to
save him from himself. It's a surprise that in the times when he had the ankle injury's that he was not playing
in a wheel chair league....I think he should be on the board of the Argentina team this year and use his time and
energy in turning around their program so they are set for the future and ready for the next Olympics........

[xmas1997]

Manu does not HAVE to play to help that team. They aren't going very far this year anyway, barring a miracle of course, even if he played.
So have fun over there, Manu, but don't play, and guard your health.

[-21-]

Just wanted to post this since some believe Manu will fight Spurs decision.


San Antonio Spurs guard Manu Ginobili will not play for Argentina at FIBA World Cup

Manu Ginobili will not play for Argentina at the FIBA World Cup because of a stress fracture in his right leg that has bothered the San Antonio Spurs guard since the playoffs.


The Argentine Basketball Federation announced the decision on Thursday. The World Cup will be played starting Aug. 30 in Spain, and Ginobili's loss is a big blow for Argentina's chances.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/07/31/san-antonio-spurs-guard-manu-ginobili-will-not-play-for-argentina-at-fiba-world/

[-21-]

Never mind, already confirmed on the previous page of thread. Sorry.

[hater]

:lol eliminated

[ElNono]

Now ARG really doesn't have a shot

[EVAY]

And to top it all off, today Argentina defaulted on its debt and worldwide markets are taking a hit because of it and the Russian/middle east situation.

Wow. I'm sure it was all due to Manu not playing.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I am fucking amazed by the double standard between NBA games and FIBA games.
It was not even a concern when Ginobili played with this injury throughout almost 20 playoff games after it appened in the second game aginst Dallas.
Yet, after he already played that much, quoting him and Pop saying that his injury was minor and unable to affect his play, almost always described as "just some pain in the ankle", it becomes a threatening injury the week after Ginobili announces he will play for Argentina.

If this injury was so serious that he cannot play a game even after SA doctors recovery time is complete (the 8 week period finish at august 15th) wh was he able to play through 21 games inmmediatelly after it happens for the Spurs?

This is a shitty rule it should be as the ASG rule when a player has to be out at least the lattest game of his team in order to be allowed to skip it.

So please posters need to shut the F up about the Spurs being honest and all that shit because they didn´t worry about protecting Manu rght when this happend yet it is a serious threatening injury once they are done compeeting.

I apologize, a million times over, to every poster that frequents this forum if my stance came off as ANYTHING REMOTELY close to this. Sometimes you need to step back (way back) and view things objectively to realize what is going on - and while I sadly still agree with kaji157 that there is a "double standard" or some form of hypocrisy (which is admittedly within the rights of those involved), it pains me to think that others may have taken my POV as anything resembling this.

kaji157, I'm sure you are a great person and you are obviously passionate about the Spurs (or at least about one of the Spurs' players) - but you might consider dialing it back down a few decibels. I like your intensity, but let's see if we can harness and control it. :toast

[will_spurs]

I love the irony in this thread:
a) Manu only plays 100%
b) the Spurs decision will affect his play next season

Sorry but you can't have it both ways. Either Manu is always ON, or he isn't.

[SupremeGuy]

I love the irony in this thread:
a) Manu only plays 100%
b) the Spurs decision will affect his play next season

Sorry but you can't have it both ways. Either Manu is always ON, or he isn't.He's ON when the Spurs tell him to be on, cause they pay the bills, tbh. Simple shit, really.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I apologize, a million times over, to every poster that frequents this forum if my stance came off as ANYTHING REMOTELY close to this. Sometimes you need to step back (way back) and view things objectively to realize what is going on - and while I sadly still agree with kaji157 that there is a "double standard" or some form of hypocrisy (which is admittedly within the rights of those involved), it pains me to think that others may have taken my POV as anything resembling this.

kaji157, I'm sure you are a great person and you are obviously passionate about the Spurs (or at least about one of the Spurs' players) - but you might consider dialing it back down a few decibels. I like your intensity, but let's see if we can harness and control it. :toast

You did sound a tad bit like him. Any time you start throwing out the word hypocritical, you are being a little accusatory of wrong-doing, or unfairness. And, I think it is pretty clear the conditions were totally different, so the definition of hypocrisy doesn't even apply to The Spurs. But, as you acknowledge, employers do have rights under employee-employer agreements, just like employees do, and The Spurs are just exercising those rights. The absolute worst that can be said is that they are being too cold and calculating, and not being respectful of Manu as a friend and family member that should afford him rights above and beyond their contract, but I am sure that they were even that, too, until push came to shove. I am sure they have attempted to be as gingerly with him as possible. But, he was playing hard ball, so they had to raise their play. He did not afford them that courtesy many times over - to say - I know I have the RIGHT to play this summer, against your wishes, but I won't, just 'cuz we're pals. He exercised his right to play, against Spur wishes, time and time again. This time, Manu wanted The Spurs to take all the risk. Now that the risk is on him, he is opting not to play. That's a little bitch-made, right there, after all the bitching about the Spurs doctors in the media, and his deep, deep emotions about playing with the NT, etc. I would have had more respect for him if he would have gone ahead and retired and played, or played and lost all or part of his 7 million in arbitration, or whatever, but now that he opts out of playing when the financial risk is shifted from The Spurs, to him, that is the most hypocritical thing that has occurred in this whole fiasco.

[exstatic]

You did sound a tad bit like him. Any time you start throwing out the word hypocritical, you are being a little accusatory of wrong-doing, or unfairness. And, I think it is pretty clear the conditions were totally different, so the definition of hypocrisy doesn't even apply to The Spurs. But, as you acknowledge, employers do have rights under employee-employer agreements, just like employees do, and The Spurs are just exercising those rights. The absolute worst that can be said is that they are being too cold and calculating, and not being respectful of Manu as a friend and family member that should afford him rights above and beyond their contract, but I am sure that they were even that, too, until push came to shove. I am sure they have attempted to be as gingerly with him as possible. But, he was playing hard ball, so they had to raise their play. He did not afford them that courtesy many times over - to say - I know I have the RIGHT to play this summer, against your wishes, but I won't, just 'cuz we're pals. He exercised his right to play, against Spur wishes, time and time again. This time, Manu wanted The Spurs to take all tuhe risk. Now that the risk is on him, he is opting not to play. That's a little bitch-made, right there, after all the bitching about the Spurs doctors in the media, and his deep, deep emotions about playing with the NT, etc. I would have had more respect for him if he would have gone ahead and retired and played, or played and lost all or part of his 7 million in arbitration, or whatever, but now that he opts out of playing when the financial risk is shifted from The Spurs, to him, that is the most hypocritical thing that has occurred in this whole fiasco.

It's not a question of financial responsibility. He can't play, even if he wants to. FIBA would literally not let him take the Court, because of their agreement with the NBA.

[littlecoyotecoin]

It's not a question of financial responsibility. He can't play, even if he wants to. FIBA would literally not let him take the Court, because of their agreement with the NBA.

Does the agreement cover retired NBA players?

[exstatic]

Does the agreement cover retired NBA players?

Since he hasn't dropped the paperwork, it's academic. If he were to do so now, I think FIBA may look on it with a jaundiced eye, thinking it was just a ploy to get out of their jurisdiction for the duration of the WC.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Since he hasn't dropped the paperwork, it's academic. If he were to do so now, I think FIBA may look on it with a jaundiced eye, thinking it was just a ploy to get out of their jurisdiction for the duration of the WC.

Surely. But, through jaundiced eyes or not, unless even retired NBA players are verboten, they would probably have little recourse. They, like Manu and The Spurs, are accountable to the rules. Since he hasn't dropped the paperwork is exactly my point. If it would have allowed him to play, he should have, based upon his behavior. Now, if it wouldn't have done any good for him to retire, he would still have been refused by FIBA, then he gets a pass, but until I hear otherwise, I'll assume it was a nuclear option he refused to consider, and his 7 million dollars was important enough to make it swing the balance against that decision.

[ElNono]

Surely. But, through jaundiced eyes or not, unless even retired NBA players are verboten, they would probably have little recourse. They, like Manu and The Spurs, are accountable to the rules. Since he hasn't dropped the paperwork is exactly my point. If it would have allowed him to play, he should have, based upon his behavior. Now, if It wouldn't have done any good for him to retire, he would still have been refused by FIBA, then he gets a pass, but until I hear otherwise, I'll assume it was a nuclear option he refused to consider, and his 7 million dollars was important enough to make it swing the balance against that decision.

It's actually more than "his 7 million"... it's basically his pro career, at least in the NBA. Retiring doesn't remove the Spurs rights over him, unless the Spurs choose to decline his cap hold. What that means is he can't 'unretire' later on and go play for another NBA team. In other words, unless he had his mind set of saying goodbye to the NBA over this, he had no realistic way to circumvent the Spur's decision.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Also, if he was willing to stick to his guns and retire, there may have been other options even including permission yielded by RC for him to play, and go out in a manner of his choosing, playing FIBA, and retiring September 20. I am not so sure that RC would have wanted a toxic Manu on the team, or a public relations nightmare where they refused to let him play even though he was retiring. There may be several scenarios where he could have forced their hand...but he didn't want to. He wants to play next year with his Spur teammates, and collect his paycheck. He just didn't want to accept the rules and conditions under which he agreed to do so. He is probably my favorite player all-time, but he has some culpability here. It's a tiny mistake. It won't sully his memory, but he went a little overboard with the drama.

[littlecoyotecoin]

It's actually more than "his 7 million"... it's basically his pro career, at least in the NBA. Retiring doesn't remove the Spurs rights over him, unless the Spurs choose to decline his cap hold. What that means is he can't 'unretire' later on and go play for another NBA team. In other words, unless he had his mind set of saying goodbye to the NBA over this, he had no realistic way to circumvent the Spur's decision.

When I say retire from the NBA, I meant retire. If all this passion is legit, do it. He was on the verge of retirement, anyway, now you're acting like he would be giving up another 2-3 year deal with Dallas or something. I guess if we get over this little snafu with him, we can expect him to sign another 2-3 year deal with us, as he's got a lot more in him before retirement than I have been led to believe for the last year or two.

[ElNono]

When I say retire from the NBA, I meant retire. If all this passion is legit, do it. He was on the verge of retirement, anyway, now you're acting like he would be giving up another 2-3 year deal with Dallas or something. I guess if we get over this little snafu with him, we can expect him to sign another 2-3 year deal with us, as he's got a lot more in him before retirement than I have been led to believe for the last year or two.

IMO, he has a few more years in him at a high level, barring some big injury... I expect him to keep going if Tim keeps on going too...

I just think he would actually do retire from the NBA if it's not the Spurs.

[littlecoyotecoin]

IMO, he has a few more years in him at a high level, barring some big injury... I expect him to keep going if Tim keeps on going too...

I just think he would actually do retire from the NBA if it's not the Spurs.

Yeah. They're tight. Pretty awesome to watch. This situation excepted.

[spurspokesman]

Manu didnt want to play, this was CIA Pop's way of getting him out of international play without him catching any flack :pop:

[kaji157]

You did sound a tad bit like him. Any time you start throwing out the word hypocritical, you are being a little accusatory of wrong-doing, or unfairness. And, I think it is pretty clear the conditions were totally different, so the definition of hypocrisy doesn't even apply to The Spurs. But, as you acknowledge, employers do have rights under employee-employer agreements, just like employees do, and The Spurs are just exercising those rights. The absolute worst that can be said is that they are being too cold and calculating, and not being respectful of Manu as a friend and family member that should afford him rights above and beyond their contract, but I am sure that they were even that, too, until push came to shove. I am sure they have attempted to be as gingerly with him as possible. But, he was playing hard ball, so they had to raise their play. He did not afford them that courtesy many times over - to say - I know I have the RIGHT to play this summer, against your wishes, but I won't, just 'cuz we're pals. He exercised his right to play, against Spur wishes, time and time again. This time, Manu wanted The Spurs to take all the risk. Now that the risk is on him, he is opting not to play. That's a little bitch-made, right there, after all the bitching about the Spurs doctors in the media, and his deep, deep emotions about playing with the NT, etc. I would have had more respect for him if he would have gone ahead and retired and played, or played and lost all or part of his 7 million in arbitration, or whatever, but now that he opts out of playing when the financial risk is shifted from The Spurs, to him, that is the most hypocritical thing that has occurred in this whole fiasco.

Trying to explain matters of the hear with numbers is not possible for me or anyone.
I am as strong spurs fan as i am for Argentina.
Manu hapens to play for both.
I just have a lot of crying to do this winter (here) because of the Spurs title (tears of joy for the history they have together) and with the WC Final with Argentina (tears of regret). What you americans do not understand is that international competition is for us in argentina way bigger than clubs (or franchises) competition. and here the first are above the latter.
If a player plays injuried for his club it is expected to continue playing for his country. Simple as that, and that is how it could be in 90% of the times. The NBA is the only association that is allowed to prohibit players from playing fo their countries.
You (americans) will never understand this things because your NT usually do not represent you. But ours do.

[bigfan]

I feel bad for the Argentine fans but Manu made his decision long ago to be a professional basketball player and as such has to follow the rules to earn the money. Im sure Argentina has plenty of talent to develop younger players and maybe Manu can be part of the coaching process. All in all, the right decision for everyone.

[TampaDude]

Manu is injured, so he can't play for the ANT. The Spurs are writing the checks, so the Spurs are calling the shots.

[ManuGinobiliArg]

On World Futbol, no team may prohibit or in contract or injury to go with his national team, only in united states!

In the Argentina national soccer team of Brazil were the world to injured players and played well.

the nba is wrong to ban their players represent their country.

[SupremeGuy]

:cry

[littlecoyotecoin]

Trying to explain matters of the hear with numbers is not possible for me or anyone.
I am as strong spurs fan as i am for Argentina.
Manu hapens to play for both.
I just have a lot of crying to do this winter (here) because of the Spurs title (tears of joy for the history they have together) and with the WC Final with Argentina (tears of regret). What you americans do not understand is that international competition is for us in argentina way bigger than clubs (or franchises) competition. and here the first are above the latter.
If a player plays injuried for his club it is expected to continue playing for his country. Simple as that, and that is how it could be in 90% of the times. The NBA is the only association that is allowed to prohibit players from playing fo their countries.
You (americans) will never understand this things because your NT usually do not represent you. But ours do.

You contradict yourself...and it is obvious you are a bigger fan of Manu and Argentina than you are of The Spurs. You just admitted it to us...admit it to yourself, and be done with it.

Your schtick about "you guys just don't understand" is old and tired. We understand perfectly. That just isn't our problem. Sorry you want him to play this year. He isn't. You got your way many other times, you don't get it this time. End of story.

[littlecoyotecoin]

On World Futbol, no team may prohibit or in contract or injury to go with his national team, only in united states!

In the Argentina national soccer team of Brazil were the world to injured players and played well.

the nba is wrong to ban their players represent their country.

No, international players and fans are wrong for signing contracts to agree to these rules, then crying like little bitches during the ONE time that the team exercises their rights...after Manu used the contract to his advantage for years. Criticize Manu for leaving Argentina for the money, not The Spurs for offering it, and having it accepted.

[ManuGinobiliArg]

No, international players and fans are wrong for signing contracts to agree to these rules, then crying like little bitches during the ONE time that the team exercises their rights...after Manu used the contract to his advantage for years. Criticize Manu for leaving Argentina for the money, not The Spurs for offering it, and having it accepted.

I understand what you say, so FIFA requires players to teams representing their country or if it is not an issue Spurs NBA should implement.

In any sport in the world in any team you are prohibited his players represent their country.

is something that the United States and the nba should try.

[kaji157]

You contradict yourself...and it is obvious you are a bigger fan of Manu and Argentina than you are of The Spurs. You just admitted it to us...admit it to yourself, and be done with it.

Your schtick about "you guys just don't understand" is old and tired. We understand perfectly. That just isn't our problem. Sorry you want him to play this year. He isn't. You got your way many other times, you don't get it this time. End of story.

No i dont. I say one thing first then i explain how it is views from an Argentine point of view.
I just believe in probabilities, and i think Ginobili injured with argentina only once in more than 10 competitions, all of them he always had something here or there.
This is not about the injury, if it were The Spurs would have waited as the 76ers did with Nocioni at Turkeys world cup when they rechecked the last test he had and ruled him out 2 days before the world cup.
The Spurs are ignoring any further testing.
So clearly is not about the injury, they want Manu to rest, if they were only concerned about the injury they might as well send a doctor to argentina and check, which they didnt.

[tenbeersbold]

Why Ginobli flees SA and its brown homies every summer and lives in a "bunker" his words in quotation not mine, mentality during Spurs season

http://www.ibtimes.com/blackout-how-argentina-eliminated-africans-its-history-conscience-1289381

:downspin::fishing

[littlecoyotecoin]

The rule is already what you want, EXCEPT in the case of injury. But, your petitioning for even that exception to be changed is within your rights, but let's put it into perspective. It is your opinion that it should be changed because you are LESS of a fan of the NBA. Those of us that are predominantly fans of the NBA may have an opposite opinion, about that exception, and might even prefer that even more limits be put on international play. So, just because you think it "should" be done, because it serves your interests, don't forget that there are plenty of people that would like to roll it back the other way and place a lot more limits on international players. I DON'T think they should change it, because it serves my interest to have The Spurs have at least a LITTLE control, control they've only been able to assert once in 10+ years, or so, with Manu. So, we can have a discussion about changing the rule, but that would be for future generations of players. I am fairly content with the status quo. But, if you want to open a debate, I would be happy to argue to put more limits on international players. This isn't soccer.

[littlecoyotecoin]

No i dont. I say one thing first then i explain how it is views from an Argentine point of view.
I just believe in probabilities, and i think Ginobili injured with argentina only once in more than 10 competitions, all of them he always had something here or there.
This is not about the injury, if it were The Spurs would have waited as the 76ers did with Nocioni at Turkeys world cup when they rechecked the last test he had and ruled him out 2 days before the world cup.
The Spurs are ignoring any further testing.
So clearly is not about the injury, they want Manu to rest, if they were only concerned about the injury they might as well send a doctor to argentina and check, which they didnt.

No you don't what? You CLEARLY just said that play for the national team is more important than club play. Clearly. You don't live in reality. There is no way to spin that. Your probabilities are bad, too. You are equating all the 10 previous chances for injury equally with this one, when he already has a fractured leg. Probability for reinjury is dramatically higher, and the presence of the injury is the very excuse that allows The Spurs to deny him permission to play...so OF COURSE it's about the injury, but it is also about his age. He was not 37 the previous 10 times he played. He didn't have a fractured leg the previous ten times. He did have an injury that got worse during international play, and forced him to sit out, and have surgery, BECAUSE he didn't rest. And, that happened when he was YOUNGER. So, again, OF COURSE it's about the injury. If he was NOT injured, The Spurs wouldn't even have a say in the matter. So, again, OF COURSE it's about the injury.

Regarding testing at a later date, that is the only valid point you've made. But, I don't think we have enough information about why a test isn't being done at the last minute. The Spurs medical staff may have all the information they need, from the tests that have been done, and having another test done in a week or two won't make a difference. Of course, you will cite some Argentinian newspaper that claims differently, but, they don't get to make the decision. Personally, I am with you. I can agree on that. I think they should give him the benefit of the doubt, and do another test at the last minute, to show that it still isn't fully healed. If it shows that it is inconclusive or still broken, then he sits...and they can say that they did what they could to approve him...

But, likely what happened, is Manu experienced pain when he practiced, which is what has been reported, and that is why a third test isn't being done...there is pain evidence that the injury isn't healed...and everyone is aware of that, now.

[baseline bum]

Manu didnt want to play, this was CIA Pop's way of getting him out of international play without him catching any flack :pop:

I don't think it's so crazy. I mean Pop took all the flak for firing Bob Hill to keep Robinson and AJ from being labelled coach killers.

[TheGreatYacht]

Argentina stays taking L's

[spurraider21]

argentina is tanking for better draft picks

[xmas1997]

argentina is tanking for better draft picks

:lmao

[Mouth is Bleeding]

His column is up:

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/autor/manu-ginobili-773

[Knoxxx]

I think it says Manu is pissed.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

After what happened tonight Manu better be thanking the organization for keeping him out of the tournament...

[anakha]

Basically, he confirmed that he started feeling pain around the area of the fracture and that meant the injury was not fully healed.

[BillMc]

Yep. Looks like he was going to fight it but then the fact that he still had pain made the battle moot. He was out and he now has accepted it.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Manu probably saw George rip his leg in half tonight, I doubt Manu tries to rush back from any injury after that. That couldve been Manu!!!

[ElNono]

I'll translate in a bit

[ElNono]

The pain on the bone came back, and that’s when I knew I was out of the World Cup
by Manu Ginobili

A few months ago, after winning the NBA Championship with San Antonio, I wrote a tweet saying “I’m in”, referring to the World Cup that’s coming up in Spain. Truth be told, I finished the tournament in fairly good shape, I was euphoric and I wanted to be with my NT teammates one last time. I never imagined what was coming. After that announcement, in the regular exit physical, a routine MRI showed a very small stress fracture on the fibula, and a few days later, after coming back from my vacations, a CT scan confirmed it.

That’s where everything got complicated.

The Spurs directly requested that I just not play the World Cup, but I took that lightly. I clearly understood their worry but I didn’t necessarily agree with the recovery time recommended by the medical team from the franchise in their medical report. I looked for a second opinion from qualified professionals on the subject that let me know the fracture was very small and with forty days, the amount of days since the last game against the Heat until the first day of training in Buenos Aires, it would be enough for the injury to completely heal.

As it’s already known, and what we agreed upon with the Spurs, on July 25 I did a new MRI and CT scan to review the progress on the injured area, and the local doctors transmitted optimism and good news. It was looking good, but the final word was with the franchise, after they evaluate this new study.

There’s a clause in the NBA/FIBA agreement that deals with the participation of NBA players on their national teams, it reads: “The players are not authorized to practice or compete with their national teams when there’s a reasonable medical concern which might put the participating player under a risk of injury, disease or other damage”.

That clause was trouble for me, since that gave them the legal power to prohibit me from playing the World Cup.

The answer wasn’t the one I was expecting. They said that due to the images received, it was not conclusive that the injury was fully healed, and thus there was still a “reasonable medical concern”. Accordingly, I was still prohibited from playing.

Up to this point, that was the timeline of events.


I think I only had one chance to be able to play in this situation, which was to ignore the request from San Antonio and look for some sort of arbitration with a FIBA’s assigned doctor that would determine if such “medical concern” was reasonable or not, something that’s certainly subjective.

It was logical. Even though it could create a problem later on with San Antonio, it was my only chance. But here is when another delicate situation comes into view, and becomes definitive for this whole ordeal. In order for the bone to fully heal, I spent 42 days without training normally, without jumping or running, so there would be no stress on the fibula. And that made me get to the first day of training for the NT in extremely poor physical shape. When you’re 37 years old, it’s not easy to get back and start like nothing happened, that’s why we tried to accelerate the fitness aspect after sending out the studies to San Antonio. I started to do some workout on the pool, fairly well, but when I moved to the treadmill pain started to show up in various places, especially on the right ankle and left foot. I did a lot of treatment and a lot of stretching and slowly it looked like it was getting better. But this Wednesday when I started to put more work in, run and shoot from the court, at the end of the session the pain came back on the same place in the fibula. That basically knocked out any expectations I had about putting together some sort of plan to plain in Spain, since requesting any kind of arbitration with FIBA was basically senseless considering the injury was clearly not fully healed.

I’m extremely sorry about this news. I’m sad and disappointed. I wanted to say goodbye to the NT on the court and with my friends, but it won’t happen. I’ll spend time with the team as much as I can, trying to support them from outside at every moment, like I’m sure all of you will be doing, both during the friendly games and watching on TV during the tournament.

http://canchallena.lanacion.com.ar/1715074-la-columna-de-manu-ginobili-reaparecio-el-dolor-en-el-perone-y-eso-me-bajo-del-mundial

[spurraider21]

:lol dude wanted to push it into arbitration. Manu being Manu tbh. Gotta love him

[ElNono]

:lol dude wanted to push it into arbitration. Manu being Manu tbh. Gotta love him

I dunno... I think there could be some lip service in there, tbh...

[spurraider21]

I dunno... I think there could be some lip service in there, tbh...
Definitely was. I still like it. As much as we grow attached to the team/organization we get attached to players. Manu has always been cavalier, it's part of who he is. But the spurs take care of him and he knows that

[will_spurs]

I dunno... I think there could be some lip service in there, tbh...

Yup, after reading his post, he makes it look like everybody acted in their best interest, and that nobody is directly responsible for his pulling out of the WC. In the end everybody is happy and nobody looks bad. Good PR job.

[SupremeGuy]

Saving face before 3rd world peeps kidnap and rape his wife and kids, tbh.

[cd98]

I think he saw the PG injury and decided not to chance it.

[littlecoyotecoin]

In before anyone mentions Paul George.

[EVAY]

Yup, after reading his post, he makes it look like everybody acted in their best interest, and that nobody is directly responsible for his pulling out of the WC. In the end everybody is happy and nobody looks bad. Good PR job.
That's how i read it, too.

[boutons_deux]

40 days of rest, but Manu tibia still sore, or cracked.

60 more days until start of camp.

I would be surprised if Manu was both healed and in game shape before Jan '15.

[Pocho La Pantera]

Saving face before 3rd world peeps kidnap and rape his wife and kids, tbh.His kids could be shot in a first world school or in a first world terrorist attack, tbf.

[SupremeGuy]

His kids could be shot in a first world school or in a first world terrorist attack, tbf.Far less likely in a first world country, tbh.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Thanks for translating.

Quite the rational and diplomatic piece from Manu!

[xmas1997]

Thank goodness.

[Proxy]

I could see this statement as an elaborate lie. It covers Manu in every way. It's going to be nice to have him and TP 100%