BREAKING: Patriots Found Guilty For Deflating Balls [Archive] - Page 3

monosylab1k

01-25-2015, 06:48 PM

Didn't see his latest press conference. Did he explain why the Colts' balls were legal and the Patriots' weren't?

Why would he? He explained his footballs. If the Colts want to offer an explanation for theirs, then that's on them. Who knows, maybe they cheated to keep them inflated properly.

boutons_deux

01-25-2015, 06:49 PM

The boffins at HeadSmart Labs (http://www.headsmartlabs.com/), who develop testing devices to aid in reducing sports concussions, did their own experiment.

They tested (https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=CxsXFX3tDpg) a temperature difference of 75 degrees and the game time on the field 51 degrees. They also wet the 12 brand new footballs to simulate real game time conditions on the day in question.

The moisture, these scientists argue, would increase the volume of the ball and decrease the pressure.

I have no reason to believe these are a covert group of Patriots obsessives. They are students and professors at Carnegie Mellon University, so they might know their science.

They discovered that merely the drop in temperature and the wetness of the balls reduced the pressure by an average of 1.8 psi.

The maximum they saw was a drop of 1.95 psi.

That is today's Belifull of deflationary science. Mythbusters, it's over to you.

http://www.cnet.com/news/bill-nye-says-belichick-is-full-of-hot-air-other-scientists-disagree/#ftag=CAD590a51e

pgardn

01-25-2015, 06:52 PM

Blind Lemon Pie, a 10.23 sprinter (summer Oregon meet Eastern Peninsula) fumbled once in 467 carries.
He preferred his balls at 14.59 psi.
This cat also played clarinet and spoke Italian as a hobby.

Little fella, there are a lot of things you don't know.

spurraider21

01-25-2015, 06:56 PM

Why would he? He explained his footballs. If the Colts want to offer an explanation for theirs, then that's on them. Who knows, maybe they cheated to keep them inflated properly.
how would that be cheating though? ensuring that rules are followed = cheating?

Avante

01-25-2015, 06:58 PM

again, i don't get what my fanhood has to do with anything. are you suggesting my favorite team reflects my intelligence? how so? am i supposed to change my favorite team so i can look smarter? you don't make any sense

Wow~~~~~~~~~

How about.....I don't appreciate some dummy who foLlows a team as fucked up as the Raiders trying to play critic...ok?

Dude, this whole thing is about........... integrity, that's isn't obvious? Do you really think we don't all see that...well?

My.,..OBVIOUS...point was it's a stupid rule, each team should be able to use whatever air pressure best for them....O-K?????????????????

Wow~~~~~~

monosylab1k

01-25-2015, 06:58 PM

how would that be cheating though? ensuring that rules are followed = cheating?

Doing anything to the footballs after the official pre-game check is cheating. Doesn't matter if it's inflating or deflating. I don't seriously think they cheated. But if NE is exonerated of wrongdoing, then why wouldn't Indy's balls come into question?

spurraider21

01-25-2015, 06:59 PM

Wow~~~~~~~~~

How about.....I don't appreciate some dummy who folows a team as fucked up as the Raiders trying to play critic...ok?

Dude, this whole thing is about integrity, that's isn't obvious? Do you really think we don't all see that...well?

My.,..OBVIOUS...point was it's a stupid rule, each team should be able to use whatever air pressure best for them....O-K?????????????????
you still haven't answered my main question... what does my fanhood have to do with it? you think because im a raider fan and they were run poorly, that means i am of lower intelligence? what do the raiders have to do with anything when it comes to my criticisms

Avante

01-25-2015, 07:00 PM

spurraider21

01-25-2015, 07:00 PM

Doing anything to the footballs after the official pre-game check is cheating. Doesn't matter if it's inflating or deflating. I don't seriously think they cheated. But if NE is exonerated of wrongdoing, then why wouldn't Indy's balls come into question?
there's no reason to question a ball that was found to be properly inflated

pgardn

01-25-2015, 07:01 PM

No not really.

14.45 psi ?

monosylab1k

01-25-2015, 07:05 PM

there's no reason to question a ball that was found to be properly inflated

The perfect crime.

Avante

01-25-2015, 07:06 PM

you still haven't answered my main question... what does my fanhood have to do with it? you think because im a raider fan and they were run poorly, that means i am of lower intelligence? what do the raiders have to do with anything when it comes to my criticisms

You are a weird little shit to be blunt. Funny watching you...MINUS 330!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...and...plus whatever. That right there showed me what you were all about, backfired didn't it shorty?

You work too hard at trying to critize others guy and it sucks, especially since you simply don't know enought about this stuff to play that. I'd take you to school talking Raiders.

Cool trying to play critic guy, got it? You just aren't equipped to try that.

The Raiders suck just like you do....ok?

monosylab1k

01-25-2015, 07:13 PM

You are a weird little shit to be blunt. Funny watching you...MINUS 330!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...and...plus whatever. That right there showed me what you were all about, backfired didn't it shorty?

You work too hard at trying to critize others guy and it sucks, especially since you simply don't know enought about this stuff to play that. I'd take you to school talking Raiders.

Cool trying to play critic guy, got it? You just aren't equipped to try that.

The Raiders suck just like you do....ok?

Don't you have a 12 year old VC hooker to get your knob polished by?

Avante

01-25-2015, 07:27 PM

Don't you have a 12 year old VC hooker to get your knob polished by?

Don't you have enought sense to know the US Navy didn't have liberty in a war zone? And....those girls had to have a work permit to work the bars, had to be 18.

So stupid it's comical.

monosylab1k

01-25-2015, 07:51 PM

Don't you have enought sense to know the US Navy didn't have liberty in a war zone? And....those girls had to have a work permit to work the bars, had to be 18.

So stupid it's comical.

So did all the underage hookers really reject all black soldiers cuz of their big dicks, or is that just a fictional thing in Full Metal Jacket?

Avante

01-25-2015, 08:02 PM

So did all the underage hookers really reject all black soldiers cuz of their big dicks, or is that just a fictional thing in Full Metal Jacket?

First off stop with this stupid...underage...thing, ok? You do know 15 year olds were getting married over there right? So what was the legal age of consent back then, since you have no clue....underage????

There was an area in Olongapo called...The Jungle. That was where the black guys (whites had to be with black friends) hung out. The jukeboxes had soul, blues, R&B on them over there. Not country, rock and roll. Yes the girls didn't like working ...The Jungle....because it took too long with black guys. So instead of getting two/three fucks a night or more $$$$$, they made less. The dick size thing....nay!

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-25-2015, 08:15 PM

So did all the underage hookers really reject all black soldiers cuz of their big dicks, or is that just a fictional thing in Full Metal Jacket?

:lmao

Clipper Nation

01-25-2015, 08:37 PM

First off stop with this stupid...underage...thing, ok? You do know 15 year olds were getting married over there right? So what was the legal age of consent back then, since you have no clue....underage????
Who the fuck cares about how young girls were that were getting married over there? Any person with actual morals and ethics (i.e. not some grotesque fat old faggot) wouldn't be okay with fucking some 15-year-old in a third-world backwater country regardless of what their "age of consent" was.

Avante

01-25-2015, 08:52 PM

Who the fuck cares about how young girls were that were getting married over there? Any person with actual morals and ethics (i.e. not some grotesque fat old faggot) wouldn't be okay with fucking some 15-year-old in a third-world backwater country regardless of what their "age of consent" was.

And anyone who knew a damn thing about this at all would know all those bar girls had to have work permits to work the bars, they had to be 18 to get those pernits. Go ahead moron Google it.

My point dummy was that it is a different world over there, and all this...underage....stuff doesn't apply. I was just a kid myself back then.

Damn you're dumb.

read...

about work in Thailand and where one is required to have a work permit.

It was like that everywhere we went. This bullshit about 12-15 year old girls in those bars is just that....bullshit. Sure some 16/17 year olds probably lied but we didn't know that.

Clipper Nation

01-25-2015, 09:07 PM

Sure some 16/17 year olds probably lied
You're already hedging and backpeddling. The reality is, you're an old fat creeperPERIOD

Avante

01-26-2015, 02:00 AM

You're already hedging and backpeddling. The reality is, you're an old fat creeperPERIOD

The facts are I was 19-22 when I was oiver there, and nobody cared about...."how old are you?"....at all. It was a total non factor. And if you'd been in my shoes you'd done the same thing and you know it. Unless you really are a faggot.

Dude, sometimes you really do look about as stupid as stupid gets, you honestly don't know anyone in the military?

Clipper Nation

01-26-2015, 02:05 AM

nobody cared about...."how old are you?"....at all

Yet you somehow know for sure they were all 18? Riiiiight.

You're a creepy old faggot, that's it and that's all.

Avante

01-26-2015, 02:20 AM

Yet you somehow know for sure they were all 18? Riiiiight.

You're a creepy old faggot, that's it and that's all.

Damn guy, you just can't ever get anything right ...EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why totally ignore what I said about that, well? And, do you honestly not have a clue about the...MILLIONS...of servicemen that came before and after me?

Stupid, why do you think there were all those bars right next to naval ports,,,,well?

Nobody should be this stupid, wow~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raven

01-26-2015, 02:25 AM

go ahead and start laughing. its a valid question

no it's not, it's really dumb..say tom likes his balls at 12.5psi and Luck likes it at 13.5, assuming it deflates by 1, the pats balls would then be too deflated while the colts balls would still be within rules.

Raven

01-26-2015, 02:26 AM

btw, how the thread got derailed so bad?

Silver&Black

01-26-2015, 03:38 AM

So did all the underage hookers really reject all black soldiers cuz of their big dicks, or is that just a fictional thing in Full Metal Jacket?

So much win in a single post....so much win. :lmao

spurraider21

01-26-2015, 04:34 AM

no it's not, it's really dumb..say tom likes his balls at 12.5psi and Luck likes it at 13.5, assuming it deflates by 1, the pats balls would then be too deflated while the colts balls would still be within rules.
you're talking out of your ass

Raven

01-26-2015, 04:46 AM

you're talking out of your ass

Its just an example.

SupremeGuy

01-26-2015, 08:28 AM

If Tom Cheat and Belicheat were black, they'd already be suspended, tbh. I can kind of see why people hate Goodell so much now. He's just going to look the other way until after the SB? What a joke.

Fabbs

01-26-2015, 10:22 AM

If Tom Cheat and Belicheat were black, they'd already be suspended, tbh. I can kind of see why people hate Goodell so much now. He's just going to look the other way until after the SB? What a joke.
:lol NFLs thorough investigashun

In an interview with ESPN during halftime of Sunday's Pro Bowl broadcast, Brady said that he hasn't yet spoken to NFL investigators regarding the allegations of the Patriots using underinflated footballs in the first half of the AFC Championship Game, and he expects to speak to investigators after the season ends.

Spur-Addict

01-26-2015, 10:27 AM

aDJ8JMcJ7Ps

Clipper Nation

01-26-2015, 10:31 AM

btw, how the thread got derailed so bad?

Old Faggot saw something about "deflating balls" and had another Olongopo flashback, tbh.

Brazil

01-26-2015, 10:35 AM

So did all the underage hookers really reject all black soldiers cuz of their big dicks, or is that just a fictional thing in Full Metal Jacket?

not surprising that a thread called deflating balls end discussing avante and his love for young girls tbh

Blake

01-26-2015, 10:45 AM

:lol NFLs thorough investigashun

In an interview with ESPN during halftime of Sunday's Pro Bowl broadcast, Brady said that he hasn't yet spoken to NFL investigators regarding the allegations of the Patriots using underinflated footballs in the first half of the AFC Championship Game, and he expects to speak to investigators after the season ends.

Fabbs, if you were an investigator, what would you ask Brady?

Blake

01-26-2015, 10:45 AM

Old Faggot saw something about "deflating balls" and had another Olongopo flashback, tbh.

:lol

jag

01-26-2015, 10:52 AM

pounds per square inch (psi) is a unit of pressure not weight (lbs). Pretty disingenuous to report it as pounds since the average person will probably think of lbs and assume it was a bigger advantage than what it really was. If it had actually been two lbs of weight pretty sure the football would've looked noticeably deflated. :lol

2 psi really isn't much and pressure is dependent on temperature, so depending on the weather (didn't watch the game) that could be a reason for a drop in pressure.

I was waiting for this, tbh. It takes an engineer to come in here and drop knowledge on people who think the refs are putting footballs on scales before every game.

Brazil

01-26-2015, 11:36 AM

I was waiting for this, tbh. It takes an engineer to come in here and drop knowledge on people who think the refs are putting footballs on scales before every game.

:lol

Clipper Nation

01-26-2015, 02:14 PM

Getting back on topic: Wilson (the company that manufactures the footballs) is calling bullshit on Belichick's pseudoscience:

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/26/deflategate-bill-belichick-patriots-explanation-wilson-bs

Aztecfan03

01-26-2015, 04:22 PM

Avante

01-26-2015, 04:35 PM

If Im Belichick or Brady...

I'm....how have we done vs the Colts lately? Trust me there is no way we thought we'd need an unfair advantage vs a team we have owned. Look at how the second half went with perfect balls.

BatManu20

01-26-2015, 05:04 PM

559815656150171648

Spur-Addict

01-26-2015, 07:21 PM

:lol "NFL has interviewed and has video of Patriots locker room attendant who allegedly took balls from officials locker room to another area on way to field, NFL is still gauging if attendant did anything wrong, but he is strong person of interest" :lol

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 08:04 PM

Pelicans78

01-26-2015, 08:08 PM

Well fuck.

If there was tampering and Belichick had anything to do with, I will say that he should be fired on the spot. Brady not so much since players cheat all the time and PEDs are a lot worse than this, but there's no excuse for a coach to be doing this.

No way he should be fired for something as meaningless as this. Suspension for a few games, but that's about it. Unless you're being sarcastic.

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 08:11 PM

No way he should be fired for something as meaningless as this. Suspension for a few games, but that's about it. Unless you're being sarcastic.

Deflating footballs alone isn't why I think he should be fired. After Spygate, he should have been especially cautious about this, and breaking the rules against a team you were heavily favored against and were going to blow out regardless is what would be especially retarded.

I still don't think anything was done that was against the rules, but I'm saying if I'm wrong and Belichick was involved, that should be the end of him imo.

Pelicans78

01-26-2015, 08:19 PM

Deflating footballs alone isn't why I think he should be fired. After Spygate, he should have been especially cautious about this, and breaking the rules against a team you were heavily favored against and were going to blow out regardless is what would be especially retarded.

I still don't think anything was done that was against the rules, but I'm saying if I'm wrong and Belichick was involved, that should be the end of him imo.

That's why I'm surprised he would have knowingly done this. He would be stupid to, especially since his team has destroyed this group of Colts. Its possible he was extra paranoid coming into this game, especially after winning a close one against the Ravens, but unlikely since the Ravens had a much better team overall compared to the Colts due to their o-line and d-line. I don't think he had any knowledge of it. Brady most likely did, but still can't prove that he knowingly had the ball deflated to illegal levels. Just another witchhunt from the NFL. Common theme under Goodell.

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 08:27 PM

That's why I'm surprised he would have knowingly done this. He would be stupid to, especially since his team has destroyed this group of Colts. Its possible he was extra paranoid coming into this game, especially after winning a close one against the Ravens, but unlikely since the Ravens had a much better team overall compared to the Colts due to their o-line and d-line. I don't think he had any knowledge of it. Brady most likely did, but still can't prove that he knowingly had the ball deflated to illegal levels. Just another witchhunt from the NFL. Common theme under Goodell.

I think Goodell is just trying to cover for himself since it's now clear how retarded the rule change was to allow teams to supply their own balls (I know CN blamed that on Brady but it was just as much Fivehead as it was Brady who wanted that rule change).

It's debatable whether Baltimore or Indy is the better overall team, but to your point, one is a particularly tough match-up for New England while the other is especially easy. Even if Belichick/Brady had plans to deflate balls against any of the 10 other playoff teams they might potentially play, you'd think they'd be smart enough to not do it against Indy.

Pelicans78

01-26-2015, 08:34 PM

I think Goodell is just trying to cover for himself since it's now clear how retarded the rule change was to allow teams to supply their own balls (I know CN blamed that on Brady but it was just as much Fivehead as it was Brady who wanted that rule change).

It's debatable whether Baltimore or Indy is the better overall team, but to your point, one is a particularly tough match-up for New England while the other is especially easy. Even if Belichick/Brady had plans to deflate balls against any of the 10 other playoff teams they might potentially play, you'd think they'd be smart enough to not do it against Indy.

The funny thing is how the league don't allow kickers to use their own balls anymore, but allow the offense to do it and then make a fuss about it. Its possible that Brady intentionally did it (he isn't alone in this league), but I don't see how they can prove it unless that equipment douche rats him out or Belicheck.

But you're right about Goodell trying to save face. He's made a habit of it this season. Truly showing how average of a commissioner he is.

Pelicans78

01-26-2015, 08:39 PM

You know what Dok? I take it back. If he is caught with intentionally breaking the rule, then he should be fired for just being stupid. You're right.

spurraider21

01-26-2015, 09:00 PM

HI-FI

01-26-2015, 09:15 PM

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 09:20 PM

Just saw Kraft's press conference.

I'd like to think he wouldn't back himself into a corner like he just did before talking to the assistant ball boy and being OK with what he heard.

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 09:28 PM

so is this "person of interest" going to be the Patsy?

DoK is right that both Brady and Fivehead, other qbs as well iirc, wanted to prep their own balls. It just looks like once again the rules have to be modified or strengthened because BB keeps exploiting the shit out of them. I suppose they'll fix up the eligible receiver rules next because of him.

The one thing I'm still interested in hearing about from a league source is this graph....
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2015-01/22/15/enhanced/webdr07/enhanced-28520-1421958845-26.png

:wakeup (drinking chai tea)

You can fault BB if he actually did break the rules, but not if he's exploiting a flawed/ill-advised rule. That's on the NFL. Letting a team fuck with the game balls up until two hours before the game and then putting the burden on the refs to make sure they're all inflated properly is retarded. Does anyone honestly think the refs have been checking every game ball before every game? Imagine how much shit teams could have gotten away with when there were replacement refs :lol

Clipper Nation

01-26-2015, 09:34 PM

Just saw Kraft's press conference.

I'd like to think he wouldn't back himself into a corner like he just did before talking to the assistant ball boy and being OK with what he heard.

Or he knows he's getting slapped on the wrist no matter what, since he's known around the league as the "Assistant Commissioner" for a reason.

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 09:36 PM

Or he knows he's getting slapped on the wrist no matter what, since he's known around the league as the "Assistant Commissioner" for a reason.

:cry conspiracy :cry

You're the SA210 of the NFL forum :lol

Clipper Nation

01-26-2015, 09:40 PM

:cry conspiracy :cry

You're the SA210 of the NFL forum :lol

:lol That's actually what he's called, tbh.

So large is Kraft's sway with Goodell that one veteran NFL executive likes to call him "the assistant commissioner."

http://www.gq.com/sports/201502/roger-goodell-season-from-hell

If I were SA210, I'd be spamming Photoshops of Kraft and Goodell while ranting about vaccines :lol

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 09:41 PM

:lol That's actually what he's called, tbh.

If I were SA210, I'd be spamming Photoshops of Kraft and Goodell while ranting about vaccines :lol

Did Bill Hicks stage his own death so he could came back as Bob Kraft :lol

djohn2oo8

01-26-2015, 09:45 PM

Not sure why Kraft would do that. He must know the hammer is coming.

spurraider21

01-26-2015, 09:48 PM

i didnt see it, what did Kraft say?

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 09:49 PM

i didnt see it, what did Kraft say?

He basically just planted his feet in the sand and emphatically said no rules were broken. Essentially he put himself in a position where he looks like a huge douchebag if they find NE did tamper with the balls.

Clipper Nation

01-26-2015, 09:52 PM

Did Bill Hicks stage his own death so he could came back as Bob Kraft :lol

:lol No, but he is a ratcoon face and a snitch, tbh.

Clipper Nation

01-26-2015, 09:53 PM

i didnt see it, what did Kraft say?

He's demanding an apology if the league doesn't find a culprit. In other words, he's hoping to obfuscate and stonewall enough that the league finally gives up and he can play the victim.

spurraider21

01-26-2015, 09:54 PM

He basically just planted his feet in the sand and emphatically said no rules were broken. Essentially he put himself in a position where he looks like a huge douchebag if they find NE did tamper with the balls.
isn't that what Belichick though? and you guys applauded him for that :lol

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 09:54 PM

isn't that what Belichick though? and you guys applauded him for that :lol

I'm not criticizing or applauding Kraft, all I was saying is that I'd like to think he wouldn't do that unless he had a pretty good idea of what was coming.

HI-FI

01-26-2015, 09:55 PM

Richard Sherman was right on the money with his truth bombs about the pats, their reputation and Goodell. He'll probably end up getting punished worse than the pats. Easier to go after the coons than the serious white collar crimes.

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 10:02 PM

isn't that what Belichick though? and you guys applauded him for that :lol

Also, as for whether or not I approve/disapprove of Kraft's press conference, I'm not a fan of him saying that he expects an apology if the NFL can't find anything. It doesn't solve anything, all it does is make it so the NFL is going to try harder to find something because it doesn't want to get shown up by Kraft.

HI-FI

01-26-2015, 10:07 PM

Also, as for whether or not I approve/disapprove of Kraft's press conference, I'm not a fan of him saying that he expects an apology if the NFL can't find anything. It doesn't solve anything, all it does is make it so the NFL is going to try harder to find something because it doesn't want to get shown up by Kraft.
good point. I thought BB didn't do himself any favors playing chicken with Goodell at his press conference. It's obvious Goodell is kraft's bitch and enjoys his shekels, but you can't make someone look like a bitch publicly or else they might push back.

DUNCANownsKOBE

01-26-2015, 10:11 PM

good point. I thought BB didn't do himself any favors playing chicken with Goodell at his press conference. It's obvious Goodell is kraft's bitch and enjoys his shekels, but you can't make someone look like a bitch publicly before they retaliate.

BB's press conference struck me as more of a fuck you to the media and less to the NFL. He didn't name any names, and wasn't demanding anything from the NFL. Kraft specifically mentioned Wells' name and made demands.

Chris

01-26-2015, 10:53 PM

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10422957_897539773613608_7840419291167406476_n.jpg ?oh=40a42fee8a9866e7a46b536a0360caaf&oe=55696EED&__gda__=1428707889_0497e87a4222709d90bb54bcf68a445 4

monosylab1k

01-26-2015, 11:47 PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/26/video-shows-employee-taking-24-balls-into-bathroom/

He took 12 Pats and 12 Colts balls into the bathroom for 90 seconds. It's entirely plausible he used those 90 seconds to deflate 12 footballs, and it's entirely plausible he used that time to take a piss. Good luck proving the former, NFL.

monosylab1k

01-26-2015, 11:51 PM

Can't wait for the SportsCenter segment where they put 90 seconds on the clock, then Mark Brunell goes into one bathroom to piss, Jerome Bettis goes into the other bathroom to deflate 12 balls.

HI-FI

01-26-2015, 11:52 PM

Can't wait for the SportsCenter segment where they put 90 seconds on the clock, then Mark Brunell goes into one bathroom to piss, Jerome Bettis goes into the other bathroom to deflate 12 balls.
:lol
I wouldn't put it past ESPN to do that.

Silver&Black

01-26-2015, 11:52 PM

monosylab1k

01-26-2015, 11:52 PM

#PissGate

HI-FI

01-26-2015, 11:55 PM

i wonder how long til a recently fired ballboy is seen driving around Boston in a Lamborghini.

monosylab1k

01-27-2015, 12:02 AM

i wonder how long til a recently fired ballboy is seen driving around Boston in a Lamborghini.

From everything I've seen, it would be 5 seconds or less to deflate one football by 2 psi. So there's no doubt a trained staffer could get 12 balls done in less than 90 seconds. But clearly there's no way to prove he did that without a confession. Brady better be emptying his kids' trust funds tbh.

spurraider21

01-27-2015, 12:04 AM

HI-FI

01-27-2015, 12:14 AM

From everything I've seen, it would be 5 seconds or less to deflate one football by 2 psi. So there's no doubt a trained staffer could get 12 balls done in less than 90 seconds. But clearly there's no way to prove he did that without a confession. Brady better be emptying his kids' trust funds tbh.
interesting that people have already experimented with it. that has been the funniest part of this story, how many people are suddenly interested in physics, thermodynamics :lol
I figured BB, Patricia and RainMan came up with a method where the balls would lose pressure an hour or so after prepped. Of course I'm not sure if this is even possible, just my paranoia about those guys :lol.
Of course it could very well be as simple as a ballboy, maybe he has a method down for deflating each ball quickly, some Ocean's Eleven shit. It will be interesting how the league wants to navigate this and how the SB will be officiated. That ballboy will probably be told to the shut the fuck up but set for life.

Chris

01-27-2015, 12:19 AM

A personal bathroom that only holds one that can be locked from the inside. A perfect place to do the dirty work, and also a credible excuse. Why not leave the balls outside if you have to take a quick whiz, or even if he was taking a hyper shit in 90 seconds. Not like some random thug is going to come steal them. :lol

monosylab1k

01-27-2015, 12:47 AM

Why not leave the balls outside if you have to take a quick whiz, or even if he was taking a hyper shit in 90 seconds. Not like some random thug is going to come steal them. :lol

It would be incredibly stupid to let those balls out of your sight before delivering them. Probably something he could be instantly fired for. The better question is why didn't he just hold it for a few more minutes, drop the balls off at the appropriate places, then go piss.

spurraider21

01-27-2015, 01:17 AM

interesting that people have already experimented with it. that has been the funniest part of this story, how many people are suddenly interested in physics, thermodynamics :lol
I figured BB, Patricia and RainMan came up with a method where the balls would lose pressure an hour or so after prepped. Of course I'm not sure if this is even possible, just my paranoia about those guys :lol.
Of course it could very well be as simple as a ballboy, maybe he has a method down for deflating each ball quickly, some Ocean's Eleven shit. It will be interesting how the league wants to navigate this and how the SB will be officiated. That ballboy will probably be told to the shut the fuck up but set for life.
they could theoretically use a different/specific gas :lol

mojorizen7

01-27-2015, 02:33 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8ShHsaIYAAITzC.jpg

Chris

01-27-2015, 02:41 AM

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1977112_889830767705530_933906107457614108_n.jpg?o h=859bcb5d8096fbe3c7550750fbf9c0be&oe=55687D2E&__gda__=1431577538_55aa1f6caacabf8e065a686b7512e02 7

Raven

01-27-2015, 04:18 AM

tom shady is beautiful :lol

pgardn

01-27-2015, 08:02 AM

A rogue ball boy took this operation upon himself...

Ill take the weather as the culprit before I believe the above.
You just don't screw with Brady's balls, feelings can get hurt.

Blake

01-27-2015, 09:00 AM

Can't wait for the SportsCenter segment where they put 90 seconds on the clock, then Mark Brunell goes into one bathroom to piss, Jerome Bettis goes into the other bathroom to deflate 12 balls.

:lol

Blake

01-27-2015, 09:07 AM

Assistant press conference:

3RGRyTGUbv4

Fabbs

01-27-2015, 11:10 AM

I aint scrolling back.
Have the stats been posted on how few fumbles Patriots have at home vs on the road?
Ditto following some players who played for Pattycakes then went to another team. And resumed a fumble rate withing NFL norms? :rolleyes

Fabbs

01-27-2015, 12:00 PM

PatsFag is completely assowned.
Rate of Patriot fumbles after Tom Shady (and Manning) lobbied the NFL in 2006 for the upcoming 2007 season to change the rule on home teams only provide footballs.

Once again, a key takeaway is deadly obvious: prior to 2007 the Patriots were RIGHT IN LINE with the league averages across the other non-dome teams. When you look team by team, they literally are in the middle of the pack for most seasons, as the histogram in the very first graphic at the top of this article shows. But starting in 2007, all similarities totally vanish.

The statistical “jump” the Patriots make in the 2006 offseason, from one fumble every 39 plays to one fumble every 76 plays is nothing short of remarkable. Their trendline over this period is not even close to that of the rest of the NFL.

Why are fumbles so important? Because as Bill Belichick knows, perhaps more so than most NFL coaches due to his understanding of the game – turnovers usually control game outcomes. Since 2000, teams who won the turnover battle won 79% of their games, regardless of ANY other statistic. A 12-5 record equates to 75% wins, so its clear how vital turnovers are in the minds of intelligent coaches. And as far as turnovers are concerned, the number one concern for a team with a quarterback as skilled and proficient as Tom Brady is not interceptions (because there won’t be many), its fumbles.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Raven

01-27-2015, 12:06 PM

anyone relating the fumbles rate in pats games with the ball deflation is simply retarded, no other way to put it.

Fabbs

01-27-2015, 12:25 PM

This Sharp Football Analysis just nails it. Much more in the article.
http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Fumble-Chart-1.png

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Fumble-Chart-4.png

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

Fabbs

01-27-2015, 12:28 PM

anyone relating the fumbles rate in pats games with the ball deflation is simply retarded, no other way to put it.
:cry Stop exposing my Pattycake fantacy. :cry
http://www.adrants.com/images/head_up_ass.jpg

Blake

01-27-2015, 12:50 PM

:cry it's not fair that they don't fumble :cry

Fabbs

01-27-2015, 01:02 PM

:cry it's not fair that they don't fumble :cry
It took you a while to log off/log on but hey, you finally have an accurate take on the scammy Pats.

monosylab1k

01-27-2015, 03:50 PM

ralphwiggum.jpg

jeebus

01-27-2015, 06:42 PM

lol this thread

Clipper Nation

01-28-2015, 01:26 AM

Looks like the NFL is reaching out to Columbia's physics department for the investigation:

A law firm hired by the N.F.L. to investigate footballs used by the New England Patriots has formally asked the Columbia University physics department for help in understanding how weather and temperature could affect the pressure in footballs, according to a summary of the communication obtained by The New York Times.

Zajc said he believed there was little chance that atmospheric effects alone could account for the discrepancies in the football pressure.

"I think it’s more likely than not that they were manipulated," Zajc said.

Robert Kirshner, a cosmologist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Mass., said that after the news conference on Saturday, Belichick would not receive invitations to give physics seminars anytime soon.

"I think Belichick is better at keeping pressure on the passer than passing a physics test," Kirshner said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/sports/football/nfl-investigator-seeks-to-consult-columbia-physicist-over-patriots-deflated-footballs.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid%3D=tw-nytsports&_r=1

Clipper Nation

01-28-2015, 01:27 AM

Also, it apparently only takes 40 seconds maximum to deflate 12 footballs below the NFL's limit:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/deflategate-update-soften-12-balls-40-seconds-article-1.2094280

Avante

01-28-2015, 02:26 AM

In a perfect world the Seahawks beat the Pats 21-20 on a last second FG. After the game they find out that ball was underinflated.

Aztecfan03

01-28-2015, 03:49 AM

In a perfect world the Seahawks beat the Pats 21-20 on a last second FG. After the game they find out that ball was underinflated.

The teams don't have access to those balls.

Malik Hairston

01-28-2015, 08:03 AM

All this talk of cheating, while ignoring that the Patriots are playing against the team with the most rampant PED usage and violations in recent history, not to mention the infamous speaker system:lol..

LnGrrrR

01-28-2015, 10:04 AM

At this point, I don't care if the trophy is shaped like a giant asterisk, 4 trophies is 4 trophies.

FromWayDowntown

01-28-2015, 12:14 PM

Now the NFL is just trolling Patriot haters.

As noted above, the investigation has reached out to the physics department at Columbia to help them understand if weather could affect a football’s air pressure, reports The New York Times."

Here's a photo from a recent Columbia home football game:

http://www.gocolumbialions.com//pics22/800/IE/IEVMZAUNMAJDSOU.20081013222358.jpg

Clipper Nation

01-28-2015, 12:17 PM

Blake

01-28-2015, 12:37 PM

spurraider21

01-28-2015, 11:02 PM

:lmao

Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, A-Rod Spring To Patriots’ Defense Over Deflated Footballs (http://www.theonion.com/articles/lance-armstrong-barry-bonds-arod-spring-to-patriot,37866/)

unleashbaynes

01-29-2015, 10:22 AM

So how is this going? Last i heard they 'zeroed in on a ball attendant' or some stupid asinine shit. Pats didn't get their whole season revoked yet?

monosylab1k

01-29-2015, 10:44 AM

the super bowl is the game where non-football fans watch commercials and pretend to like football

i'll cut my dick off before i watch Cheat-tle v Cheatriots

the road to the super bowl is long and pointless...

Thanks for sharing.

Blake

01-29-2015, 11:14 AM

i'll cut my dick off before i watch Cheat-tle v Cheatriots

shemann82

lefty

01-29-2015, 11:46 AM

http://i.imgur.com/oMFf9jn.jpg

bulakenyo

01-29-2015, 04:04 PM

Spur-Addict

01-29-2015, 09:05 PM

Inspection of the balls by referee Walt Anderson before the AFC Championship game was handled properly.

-Blandino

spurraider21

01-29-2015, 10:04 PM

Inspection of the balls by referee Walt Anderson before the AFC Championship game was handled properly.

-Blandino
vp of officiating defending officials :lol

spurraider21

01-30-2015, 03:32 AM

NFL says Solder touchdown play was illegal (http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/nfl-says-solder-touchdown-play-was-illegal?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo)

:stirpot:

monosylab1k

01-30-2015, 03:43 AM

spurraider21

01-30-2015, 03:54 AM

That's illegal the exact same way holding is illegal.
its a lot less subjective than judgment calls like holding/pass interference

Aztecfan03

01-30-2015, 04:11 AM

That's illegal the exact same way holding is illegal.

There are illegal substitutions on every play?

MultiTroll

01-30-2015, 07:11 AM

vp of officiating defending officials :lol
Exactly.
And of course Blandino would tell us if inspection by referee Walt Anderson was not handled properly.
:lol NFL

Raven

01-30-2015, 07:25 AM

:cry cheatriots :cry

MultiTroll

01-30-2015, 07:50 AM

:cry cheatriots :cry
:cry Won't somebody please respect our rigged titles. :cry

unleashbaynes

01-30-2015, 08:16 AM

^if you really thought that, why would you still watch football games at all, you moron?

MultiTroll

01-30-2015, 08:23 AM

^if you really thought that, why would you still watch football games at all, you moron?
Get paid to.
When i didn't get paid, i still watched to see some good plays aside from the corruption.

Blake

01-30-2015, 10:22 AM

humorous

like when Kori Elmo'ed you.

You'll have to tell that story again

monosylab1k

01-30-2015, 11:08 AM

its a lot less subjective than judgment calls like holding/pass interference

There are illegal substitutions on every play?

They call illegal formations and substitutions all the time. It was on the refs to throw the flag.

unleashbaynes

01-31-2015, 10:48 AM

According to Blandino, referees do not bother with logging the PSI level of footballs during the pre-game gauging ritual. Unlike the captain’s log from “Star Trek,” nothing gets put into writing, or posted on a bulletin board somewhere.

What we have, then, is Walt Anderson, who reffed the AFC title game, saying that he did pregame and halftime ball checks, except there’s nothing to corroborate what he came up with.

“They’re not logged, and that’s certainly something that can be a thought (for the future),” Blandino said.

:lmao so there isn't even any hard evidence that the balls were actually deflated. Great sleuthing skills NFL.

DUNCANownsKOBE

02-01-2015, 11:20 AM

NFL says Solder touchdown play was illegal (http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/nfl-says-solder-touchdown-play-was-illegal?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo)

:stirpot:

:lmao Blandino saying, ":cryBelichick was made aware of it:cry" as if it's somehow Belichick's fault the refs are too fucking incompetent to enforce the rules they're supposed to know.

:lmao people in this thread seriously blaming Belichick for officials not being able to enforce their own rules

DUNCANownsKOBE

02-01-2015, 11:30 AM

They call illegal formations and substitutions all the time. It was on the refs to throw the flag.

No. It was on :cryBelicheat:cry to throw the flag on himself, he needs to be mindful of NFL refs not being able to enforce the rules they're supposed to know.

SupremeGuy

02-01-2015, 03:24 PM

:cry Won't somebody please respect our rigged titles. :cry:lol

DAF86

02-01-2015, 05:45 PM

What a despicable lowlife scum of a franchise, tbh.

ploto

02-02-2015, 02:53 PM

So only one ball was 2 psi under and it was the one the Colts had in their possession after the interception.

And the guy going the bathroom had both teams balls, and the Patriots were the ones who informed the NFL about it.

lefty

02-02-2015, 02:55 PM

What a despicable lowlife scum of a franchise, tbh.
:lol Packers
:lol choking in the NFC game
:lol dat slide
:lol Missi
:lol HGH
:lol Blatterluva

Brazil

02-02-2015, 02:59 PM

Brazil

02-02-2015, 02:59 PM

What a despicable lowlife scum of a franchise, tbh.

you were not a titan fan at one point tbh ?

lefty

02-02-2015, 03:12 PM

you were not a titan fan at one point tbh ?
yes he was tbh

Brazil

02-02-2015, 03:55 PM

yes he was tbh

:lol

dat bandwagonning tbh

lefty

02-02-2015, 04:18 PM

:lol

dat bandwagonning tbh
Well he is not that bad tbh

He IS a legit Getafe fan, the team that would dominate 70s Brazil thanks to advanced training and nutrition

BatManu20

02-02-2015, 05:24 PM

562375475306434560

sook

02-02-2015, 05:31 PM

562375475306434560

how sweet it was :cry

lefty

02-02-2015, 06:53 PM

how sweet it was :cry
:cry yes
:cry Brady and Edelman entering the field and pumping the crowd up - the moment I saw Brady do that I knew NE was going to win
:cry goosebumps

DAF86

02-03-2015, 02:41 PM

:lol Packers
:lol choking in the NFC game
:lol dat slide
:lol Missi
:lol HGH
:lol Blatterluva

:lol Thinking I'm a Packers fan.

DAF86

02-03-2015, 02:42 PM

you were not a titan fan at one point tbh ?

yes he was tbh

:lol

dat bandwagonning tbh

Now I'm a Jaguars fan. Skin don't lie. :lol

Brazil

02-03-2015, 02:54 PM

Now I'm a Jaguars fan. Skin don't lie. :lol

:lol

unleashbaynes

02-05-2015, 10:04 AM

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/04/esiason-on-deflategate-coordinated-effort-by-ravens-colts-to-embarrass-tom-brady/

Hmmmmmmmmmm

DUNCANownsKOBE

02-07-2015, 09:56 AM

BUMP

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/04/esiason-on-deflategate-coordinated-effort-by-ravens-colts-to-embarrass-tom-brady/

Hmmmmmmmmmm
:lmao everyone in this thread getting more nervous than a fat kid at a salad bar after this was posted

Pelicans78

02-07-2015, 11:14 AM

This deflate thing was stupid. Worse than the Bounty BS. Goodell lets this shit happen in his league.

Clipper Nation

02-07-2015, 11:43 AM

BUMP

:lmao everyone in this thread getting more nervous than a fat kid at a salad bar after this was posted
:lmao Nervous about Boomer Esiason pandering to homer Boston sports radio hosts? Funny joke.

DUNCANownsKOBE

02-07-2015, 11:50 AM

:lmao Nervous about Boomer Esiason pandering to homer Boston sports radio hosts? Funny joke.

Schefter has also entertained this as what happened. It's certainly more believable than 11 of 12 balls being deflated while some old guy was taking a piss, especially since the report of 11 balls being 2 PSI below the minimum was already rescinded :lol

:lmao "How were 11 (oops I mean 1) of the Patriots balls underinflated while the Colts balls weren't!"

Probably because the Colts only deflated the Patriots ball the intercepted but didn't deflate any of the balls they were using :lol

Clipper Nation

02-07-2015, 11:53 AM

:lol Yeah, it's all a vast conspiracy by the Colts and Ravens. It couldn't possibly be that the team known most for pushing the limits of the rulebook deflated the footballs, which literally takes only 40 seconds. And if they weren't all 2 PSI below, it probably took even less time.

DUNCANownsKOBE

02-07-2015, 11:59 AM

:lol Yeah, it's all a vast conspiracy by the Colts and Ravens. It couldn't possibly be that the team known most for pushing the limits of the rulebook deflated the football*, which literally takes only 40 seconds. And if they weren't all 2 PSI below, it probably took even less time.

FIFY

So it was just a coincidence that the only football that was more than a few ticks below full PSI was the football Indy intercepted :lol

Pick a lane and stick with it. Were 11 of the 12 footballs a full 2 PSI below the minimum (like you and everyone else has been saying this entire thread :lol), or were 10 of the 12 footballs only a few ticks below the minimum, which could easily be the result of going from 75 degree room temp to the 50 degree temp outside?

Clipper Nation

02-07-2015, 12:04 PM

Patriots fans are the ones who need to pick a lane, tbh. When the story first broke, everything the media said was a lie according to Pats fans, but now that there's a few stories that take the Pats' side, suddenly you're all slurping the media up like it's the gospel truth :lol

Not sure why Patsfan is so worried, BTW. I heard they haven't even interviewed Brady or Belichick yet, so this "investigation" is a joke. When Struggle threw that pick, Deflategate being swept under the rug for good was pretty much confirmed, tbh.

Goodell will probably announce a light slap on the wrist punishment on some random Friday in the spring, and meanwhile, the Browns and Falcons will actually be punished for their scandals. The NFL is about as consistent as the NCAA :lol

DUNCANownsKOBE

02-07-2015, 12:06 PM

Patriots fans are the ones who need to pick a lane, tbh. When the story first broke, everything the media said was a lie according to Pats fans, but now that there's a few stories that take the Pats' side, suddenly you're all slurping the media up like it's the gospel truth :lol
What did I say was a lie? Please use specific examples, don't be vague.

Not sure why Patsfan is so worried, BTW. I heard they haven't even interviewed Brady or Belichick yet, so this "investigation" is a joke. When Struggle threw that pick, Deflategate being swept under the rug for good was pretty much confirmed, tbh.
:lol preemptively coming up with an explanation for when the NFL finds nothing

DUNCANownsKOBE

02-07-2015, 12:10 PM

Goodell will probably announce a light slap on the wrist punishment on some random Friday in the spring, and meanwhile, the Browns and Falcons will actually be punished for their scandals. The NFL is about as consistent as the NCAA :lol

$100 says the NFL doesn't punish New England at all and concludes that New England did nothing outside of the rules. Idk if they even post anymore but Kori or timvp can hold the money in escrow until the NFL announces its findings.

Deal?

Thread

02-07-2015, 12:40 PM

^DUNCAN, gettin' those checks every two weeks. Open that envelope & it's nice, eh? Here is a form for ya as you take $ in. Never forget it:::FDICperiod

LnGrrrR

02-08-2015, 03:18 PM

sook

02-13-2015, 03:27 AM

bitches

https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/561925946970615809

sook

02-13-2015, 08:56 PM

*crickets* from the usual shitheads obviously.

spurraider21

02-13-2015, 09:06 PM

crickets from you posting an article from 2 weeks ago

lefty

02-14-2015, 01:54 AM

Now I'm a Jaguars fan. Skin don't lie. :lol
:lol

Fabbs

02-15-2015, 07:05 AM

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff311/music_slave21/psim0064.jpg
I'm sure the NFL will make an honest, thorough investigashun.
Kori and LJ will take a break from their own troll making and eskrow 100 dolleresses.

spurraider21

02-17-2015, 11:04 PM

567882735345274881

monosylab1k

02-17-2015, 11:09 PM

Apparently it was a non-kicking ball tossed to the ref in a kicking situation.

-Ball boy tosses ref ball
-Ref says "Hey, this is the wrong ball"
-Ref gets right ball into game

Isn't the whole point of marking balls for this exact scenario? How the fuck is this a story?

SupremeGuy

02-18-2015, 07:29 AM

567882735345274881I'm shocked. :lol I'm sure the NFL will definitely seek to punish the cheatriots. :lol

Raven

02-18-2015, 09:40 AM

this story is becoming increasingly funny tbh

lefty

02-18-2015, 09:58 AM

They are jealous :lol

unleashbaynes

02-18-2015, 10:15 AM

:lol this is more done than Matt Dodge after The Punt

monosylab1k

02-18-2015, 06:07 PM

From Adam Schefter -

"Several NFL officials are in charge of handling balls on game day, and one of those officials is in charge of removing specific kicking-game balls that are targeted for charity.

"According to my source, that official is alleged to have been selling for profit the balls targeted for charity. When he removed a ball during the AFC title game, it was noticed that a ball was missing, and he tried to replace it with a ball that he handed to McNally to pass along to game officials in the first half.

"That NFL official has since been fired for trying to sell balls on his own, according to my source.

"Additionally, another NFL official, also noticing a missing ball, gave another ball to an equipment manager in the second half to pass along to game officials.

"My source tells me that all of this is confirmed on video and everything is in the hands of the Wells investigation."

:lmao Schefter completely shitting all over his own network's shitty reporting.

monosylab1k

02-18-2015, 06:15 PM

:lmao the NFL covering up their employees stealing footballs by launching a huge investigation on the Patriots.

spurraider21

02-18-2015, 07:43 PM

That's it. Strip the Superbowl win

sook

02-18-2015, 08:00 PM

:lol

monosylab1k

02-18-2015, 08:03 PM

That's it. Strip the Superbowl win

For what?

spurraider21

02-18-2015, 08:09 PM

For what?
For their fans missing blatant sarcasm

monosylab1k

02-18-2015, 08:13 PM

For their fans missing blatant sarcasm

Oh, it was a shitty joke.

DUNCANownsKOBE

02-18-2015, 08:17 PM

I'm still laughing at the prematurely ejaculating thread title :lmao

spurraider21

02-18-2015, 08:32 PM

Oh, it was a shitty joke.
I would find jokes shitty too if they completely went over my head.

HI-FI

02-19-2015, 07:53 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw3tyAkGx-s

:lmao
Tosh lets loose with some truth bombs on this one.

Raven

02-21-2015, 10:53 AM

:cry deflaters :cry

Blake

02-21-2015, 03:02 PM

Deflatriots lolololooooooooo

L

Avante

02-21-2015, 09:20 PM

This whole thing was fucking stupid, if you get beat because of air pressure in a football you deserve to lose.

spurraider21

02-22-2015, 12:48 AM

This whole thing was fucking stupid, if you get beat because of air pressure in a football you deserve to lose.
still missing the point. nobody ever said they lost because of the pressure. you keep repeating the same shit over and over again. you've used this line about 30 times already and its irrelevant

Avante

02-22-2015, 12:56 AM

still missing the point. nobody ever said they lost because of the pressure. you keep repeating the same shit over and over again. you've used this line about 30 times already and its irrelevant

30 times? You show me where I have used it even 5 times and I'll do 30 days in the hole. And what I do is none of your fucking business, got it faggot?

And the point is the Pats cheated, it has nothing to do with winning and losing. My thing is if it has nothing to do with winning/losing....fuck it! We all cheat and we all know it.

Will Hunting

03-14-2015, 07:58 AM

:lol so when is the NFL gonna wrap this up? Are they hoping people will just forget about this and how horribly they handled it?

Blake

03-14-2015, 11:51 AM

30 times? You show me where I have used it even 5 times and I'll do 30 days in the hole. And what I do is none of your fucking business, got it faggot?

And the point is the Pats cheated, it has nothing to do with winning and losing. My thing is if it has nothing to do with winning/losing....fuck it! We all cheat and we all know it.

You're so angry. You need Jesus.

LnGrrrR

03-14-2015, 01:23 PM