Spurs NBA Championships effect NFL Commish

[Vashner]

Spurs NBA Championships effect NFL Commishioners views.

I think the commish does not want to be like the NBA... with San Antonio delivering a champion team and river parades...

He was born in NJ... he's like friggin no ring Jayson Kidd.. that small market just not good enough for him. Or too good?

How is that for a tin foil theory?

[Jimcs50]

SA can not support an NFL team. There are way too many Dallas fans in SA and they would never spend thousands of dollars to support a SA team. There is not enough money in SA to support the NFL team there. You need corporate luxury boxes filled to capacity to support an NFL team for the most part.

[Rescueone]

San Antonio can support a NFL team. This area is well populated, has the necessary corporation sponsorship in the area, and I believe any existing or expansion NFL team with the name San Antonio on it's jersey will have it's fans. Just because one say's "Dallas" has a grip on the San Antonio market doesn't make it so. I can't stand the Cowpukes! I'm in San Antonio and I know I'm not the only one who can't stand that sorry ass team. It's like a Spurs fan routing for the Mavs vs against Spurs living in San Antonio. Get off of Dallas's jock, this is San Antonio! Move to Dallas! Not everyone here likes Dallas. How can anyone not rout for the home team and for the city not to succeed! With those types of attitudes from Cowpuke fans here the NFL commissioner would be correct to call San Antonio "Small Market" and in the "Gulf Coast Region" because Dallas fans who live in the best city in Texas are laughing and thinks it's so!.... Here's a note to you: He's insulting everyone who calls San Antonio and Austin home. Including you Dallas fans who live here. He thinks we're all too stupid to even question his comments. Do you realize he's calling you small minded, from a small friendly country town who doesn't even know where you are geographically on the map! He believes people with small minds and small thoughts really don't deserve a NFL team.
Wake up, everyone here should be outraged!! I know his plans are to put a team in LA. What or who team that is I don't care, but don't call this area small market when San Antonio and Austin are in the middle of the pack (19) when it comes to T.V. market size. We're not all stupid here! Just keep us in the mix when it comes to expansion or relocation because we deserve at least that much.

[cherylsteele]

How do you know we cannot support an NFL team unless given the chance?
Toyota has said it would purchase $25mil if the saimts came...not sure if it was box seats or what though....I heard it on one of the local channels.

LA is much much bigger, had TWO chances and let both chances go.

Spurs title celebrations effect their choice? Is it because we don't loot, burn cars, commit lots of assaults with bodily injuries, riots? I guess we are too civilized for them.

[my2sons]

i am a dallas cowboys fan, but given the opportunity to support my own team vs another, i chose to support my own team. how difficult a concept is that. plus i like pro football, i want to see pro football, i don't want to take a bus or weekend trip to dallas or houston to watch proball. get over it...

[FromWayDowntown]

I think the idea that San Antonio can't support an NFL team is an archaic idea. San Antonio alone has at least 3 corporations that are, IIRC, in the Fortune 50: SBC, Valero, and Clear Channel. It has a coming influx of corporate money from Toyota. It also has some more localized and under publicized businesses that have been good in their sponsorship of the Spurs and other similar ventures, including: HEB and KCI. I'd be surprised if the similarly-sized markets in the NFL have substantially more corporate money than San Antonio.

I think one thing is true, though. San Antonio's loyalty to the Cowboys is harmful to its chances to get a team. The hullaballoo about the possibility that the Cowboys will be taken off of television in favor of a Saints game sort of points to the problem. If SA got a team (the "San Antonio Hypotheticals") and that team was in the NFC, Cowboys fans in SA would lose out on seeing the Cowboys for a number of weeks each season. That's the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Cowboys-related conflicts -- all of which would take from the local support base and make life difficult for the Hypotheticals.

I stand by my position that San Antonio, by and large, supports the idea of getting an NFL team, but would prefer that that team be the Dallas Cowboys.

[King]

I'll still be a Cowboys fan first, regardless of whatever team moved here. I'm sure there are a lot of people that feel that way.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think the idea that San Antonio can't support an NFL team is an archaic idea. San Antonio alone has at least 3 corporations that are, IIRC, in the Fortune 50: SBC, Valero, and Clear Channel. It has a coming influx of corporate money from Toyota. It also has some more localized and under publicized businesses that have been good in their sponsorship of the Spurs and other similar ventures, including: HEB and KCI. I'd be surprised if the similarly-sized markets in the NFL have substantially more corporate money than San Antonio.

I think one thing is true, though. San Antonio's loyalty to the Cowboys is harmful to its chances to get a team. The hullaballoo about the possibility that the Cowboys will be taken off of television in favor of a Saints game sort of points to the problem. If SA got a team (the "San Antonio Hypotheticals") and that team was in the NFC, Cowboys fans in SA would lose out on seeing the Cowboys for a number of weeks each season. That's the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Cowboys-related conflicts -- all of which would take from the local support base and make life difficult for the Hypotheticals.

I stand by my position that San Antonio, by and large, supports the idea of getting an NFL team, but would prefer that that team be the Dallas Cowboys.

San Antonio can support a team, no doubt. But it's not as attractive as the 2nd largest media market in the US. Also, while you do have a corporate base here that is significant, the city doesn't have as strong a middle class as you would expect. In some respects, the city is either feast or famine. You don't have that broad swath of households pulling in $70 to 80K between two income earners. Yes, you do have some major companies based here, but those operations are primarily their HQs. You don't have a large amount of well paying jobs relative to that corporate base. You have the 'headquarters' jobs and then you have a shitload of low paying travel and tourism jobs. That is what really hurts SA in relation to other metro areas its size.

[samikeyp]

Just because one say's "Dallas" has a grip on the San Antonio market doesn't make it so. I can't stand the Cowpukes! I'm in San Antonio and I know I'm not the only one who can't stand that sorry ass team.

and just because one says they don't have a grip doesn't make it so either. You are accusing Cowboys fans of bias, yet you are using your own Anti-Cowboy bias as the sole basis of your argument.

I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. The only thing for me that would change that is a hometown team. For me, hometown loyalty comes first. I wouldn't abandon rooting for the Cowboys but if they played the San Antonio Whatevers....I would root for SA.


How can anyone not rout for the home team and for the city not to succeed! With those types of attitudes from Cowpuke fans here the NFL commissioner would be correct to call San Antonio "Small Market" and in the "Gulf Coast Region" because Dallas fans who live in the best city in Texas are laughing and thinks it's so!....


Nice to know you have a grip on the exact status of fandom here in SA and that you feel all Cowboys fans think alike. :rolleyes

[FromWayDowntown]

San Antonio can support a team, no doubt. But it's not as attractive as the 2nd largest media market in the US. Also, while you do have a corporate base here that is significant, the city doesn't have as strong a middle class as you would expect. In some respects, the city is either feast or famine. You don't have that broad swath of households pulling in $70 to 80K between two income earners. Yes, you do have some major companies based here, but those operations are primarily their HQs. You don't have a large amount of well paying jobs relative to that corporate base. You have the 'headquarters' jobs and then you have a shitload of low paying travel and tourism jobs. That is what really hurts SA in relation to other metro areas its size.

I didn't think the point that Jim made had anything to do with comparing San Antonio and Los Angeles. There's no doubt that Los Angeles is, in every imaginable sense, the more attractive market for any pro sports league. Jim's statement struck me as an absolutist view -- that San Antonio inherently lacks the wherewithal to support an NFL team. My point, simply, was that the old saw about a lack of monied corporate interests in SA is now a fiction, since San Antonio has developed a fairly significant corporate profile in recent years, and not just with local businesses.

I'd agree that the socio-economics of San Antonio are far from ideal for a professional sports league that needs 60,000-70,000 fans at least 10 times a year. But I suspect that a football team would change the way that many chose to use their discrentionary income (to the extent that they have such income). That assumes, of course, that San Antonio football fans can do as mikey says and put aside the Cowboy bias and support the Hypotheticals.

[Rescueone]

and just because one says they don't have a grip doesn't make it so either. You are accusing Cowboys fans of bias, yet you are using your own Anti-Cowboy bias as the sole basis of your argument.

I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. The only thing for me that would change that is a hometown team. For me, hometown loyalty comes first. I wouldn't abandon rooting for the Cowboys but if they played the San Antonio Whatevers....I would root for SA.




Nice to know you have a grip on the exact status of fandom here in SA and that you feel all Cowboys fans think alike. :rolleyes


Yes I am, I'm just pointing out the "other half" of the argument! There are others out there like me that doesn't like Dallas period! The quote by JIMCS50 of "way too many Dallas fans her in SA" vs my "many that don't like Dallas". Call it like you're suppose to see it! Grip vs no grip plain and simple!

I'm glad to know that you would support a SA team! :tu

Just my opinion on Cowboy fans from what I observed in this forum. The "I don't want to see the Saints on T.V. in SA if it means I can't see the Cowboys".....Waaaaahhhh! Makes me laugh! If SA get a team, one better get the DirecTV NFL ticket, or drive to the Dallas area to see them play, because Dallas won't be on T.V. in the SA area if they are placed in the NFC.

[MiNuS]

The San Antonio Rattlers.............uuuuuuuuummmm

I'm still a Cowboy fan!

San Antonio is becoming what LA is.
A basketball town.

[Marcus Bryant]

I didn't think the point that Jim made had anything to do with comparing San Antonio and Los Angeles. There's no doubt that Los Angeles is, in every imaginable sense, the more attractive market for any pro sports league. Jim's statement struck me as an absolutist view -- that San Antonio inherently lacks the wherewithal to support an NFL team. My point, simply, was that the old saw about a lack of monied corporate interests in SA is now a fiction, since San Antonio has developed a fairly significant corporate profile in recent years, and not just with local businesses.

I'd agree that the socio-economics of San Antonio are far from ideal for a professional sports league that needs 60,000-70,000 fans at least 10 times a year. But I suspect that a football team would change the way that many chose to use their discrentionary income (to the extent that they have such income). That assumes, of course, that San Antonio football fans can do as mikey says and put aside the Cowboy bias and support the Hypotheticals.


Sure, I agree that the city could support a team. Hell, New Orleans was somehow able to, though it took the state giving Benson a subsidy to keep him satisfied...temporarily.

Honestly, any franchise to be located in this part of Texas would have to involve Austin-San Marcos. Between SA and Austin plus the Valley, that would be a decent size media market plus it would improve the look of the market in terms of per capita income/discretionary income if you can break into the Austin market in a meaningful way.

Also, if you involve Austin and San Marcos, you have a larger tax base from which to finance a new stadium.

The question in my mind is not how will the team do in its first season, but rather in its third when the team's on its way to its 3rd 5-11 season. Fortunately, there would only be an overlap of about 2 months between the NFL and NBA seasons.

We do know that the city will support a winner.

Before I forget, Austin doesn't strike me as that great of a market for the Spurs. Sure, pretty much anything you get out of it is gravy.

[ShoogarBear]

A better question is, would San Antonio support a team like the Texans?

[msufan420]

Also, if you involve Austin and San Marcos, you have a larger tax base from which to finance a new stadium.

True, but who says Austin and San Marcos want to raise their taxes to finance a team in San Antonio? If I were a resident in either city, I'd be outraged...Shenanigans.

[Marcus Bryant]

True, but who says Austin and San Marcos want to raise their taxes to finance a team in San Antonio? If I were a resident in either city, I'd be outraged...Shenanigans.


That's why you place the stadium between New Braunfels and San Marcos near I-35.

[samikeyp]

Just my opinion on Cowboy fans from what I observed in this forum.

yes because all the Cowboys fans worldwide are in this forum. :rolleyes

And that still doesn't hold water because not even all the Cowboys fans were complaing about not seeing Dallas play. You admit to being biased so how can you make a rational point if clouded by bias?

[Marcus Bryant]

A better question is, would San Antonio support a team like the Texans?

That's what I am thinking. The Texans' home opener had a decent crowd, but there were not a few empty seats. After their performance last Sunday, I suspect there will be even more empty seats at the next home game.

[ShoogarBear]

Football is clearly much more traditionally a part of San Antonio fabric than is basketball.

20 years ago, if you gave San Antonioans the choice between having a 5-11 NFL team or a 3-time NBA champion, a very high percentage, perhaps even a majority, would have said the former.
Now that we actually have a 3-time champion, I suspect that is no longer true. Still, unless things have changed dramatically, support for high school football >>> HS basketball.

But you have to have a bigger economic base to support football than basketball. I still don't think SA has that, and would have to have support from Austin. Even with that, I think things would be shaky after a 4-5 year honeymoon period, UNLESS the team was a winner.

[rr2418]

I'm a Cowboy fan and always will be PERIOD!! I'll be honest about who I'll root for incase of a SA v Dallas game. I'll probably root for the Cowboys, but hope SA does good in the season. I'll support the SA team, but the Cowboys are my fav team for 36 years. You don't suddenly turn on a switch and start going against the Cowboys. For those of you who aren't Cowboy fans, deal with it! Just b/c you're not a fan, it doesn't make it wrong to root for them even though SA would get a team. Alot of people are getting all excited about the Saints right now, but all the NFL is doing is dangling a big taco in front of SA, and the people are licking their chops over it! WAKE UP SA, WE'RE NOT GETTING A TEAM!!!! The Commish was right, we can't support a team. Right now everyone is saying they would support a team, but when the time comes to open their wallet, there will be alot of people looking to their neighbor for them to do the supporting!

[King Manu]

bunch of traitors. You san antonio cowboy fans make me sick. Get out of san antonio. Jerry jones is a big part of why san antonio is not on the radar. San Antonio residents are brainwashed into believing they cant have a team. San Antonio can have a team but with morons on this board still on the cowboy express. it's sad. They should all move to dallas. I am for san antonio first period.

[Rescueone]

bunch of traitors. You san antonio cowboy fans make me sick. Get out of san antonio. Jerry jones is a big part of why san antonio is not on the radar. San Antonio residents are brainwashed into believing they cant have a team. San Antonio can have a team but with morons on this board still on the cowboy express. it's sad. They should all move to dallas. I am for san antonio first period.

All right :tu :tu Another who feels as I do. The "Boys" stink. Waaaaaaahhh, snif, snif..... San Antonio's gonna blow it for me if I don't see them on T.V. booo whooo whoooo. This is San Antonio not Dallas, stop thinking small. In order to be recognized as big time we all must believe we are a major city in America, and not a small town with a bunch of people. Change that mentality. Hello, we are the 9th largest city in America and growing! Whoever believes we cannot support a team must think we all are uneducated individuals, living below the poverty level or just have minimum wage jobs. It's not so people! I'm not brainwashed into believing that BS that San Antonio sucks in regards to supporting a NFL team, and you the residents of San Antonio and Austin shouldn't be insulted like this.

[Rescueone]

yes because all the Cowboys fans worldwide are in this forum. :rolleyes

And that still doesn't hold water because not even all the Cowboys fans were complaing about not seeing Dallas play. You admit to being biased so how can you make a rational point if clouded by bias?


I think you meant all the cowboy fans in San Antonio. Fans were upset and had to be calmed down. That's what was reported.

How can a different opinion from an already biased statement to begin with not be biased? It's Apples vs Oranges! Cmon man!

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes, Jones is surely (and to a much lesser extent, McNair) a significant reason that it will be rather difficult for San Antonio to land a franchise through expansion or relocation.

But it begins and ends with the attractiveness of the media market relative to LA's. It's not a question of whether a franchise could exist in SA and be supported by the city as much as it is a realization that a franchise in the 2nd largest media market in the US is a priority for the NFL as the economic impact is significantly greater than trying to get more Texans to watch more football. Plus, again, you have to factor in the motives of Tom Benson. About the only way SA can compete with LA is if you have a massive giveaway to the owner in the form of a sweetheart arena deal (ala the SBC Center).

The city population doesn't matter. What matters is the metro area population and average per capita income stats, and SA is far down on both of those lists. Honestly, if SA wanted to improve its chances of getting a NFL franchise, the civic and business leaders in SA would get in touch with their counterparts all along I-35 between SA and Austin. If you can get the entire I-35 corridor behind a team then you will have a much more attractive media market. I think that you could get Austin in general excited about a team if they have a significant part and the stadium is located 30 miles away rather than 80.

[samikeyp]

No, as usual you skew the truth for your own benefit. I was referring to this statment:


Just my opinion on Cowboy fans from what I observed in this forum.

You make reference to the Cowboys whom you observed in THIS forum and you made the assumption that they speak for ALL Cowboys fans everywhere.

This statement:

And that still doesn't hold water because not even all the Cowboys fans were complaing about not seeing Dallas play
was referring to those Cowboys fans IN THIS FORUM to whom you were referring to.

But at least you admit to being biased. When you can approach the situation without bias, let us know.

[Marcus Bryant]

It doesn't matter if people remain Cowboys fans or become Saints fans or both. The problem is that a franchise in SA doesn't really expand the total NFL pie much.

[samikeyp]

The problem is that a franchise in SA doesn't really expand the total NFL pie much.

Sad but true.

[Rescueone]

No, as usual you skew the truth for your own benefit. I was referring to this statment:



You make reference to the Cowboys whom you observed in THIS forum and you made the assumption that they speak for ALL Cowboys fans everywhere.

This statement:

was referring to those Cowboys fans IN THIS FORUM to whom you were referring to.

But at least you admit to being biased. When you can approach the situation without bias, let us know.


I didn't say all cowboy fans in this forum! I stated "Fans in this forum"
Is every cowboy fan world wide located in this one forum? I don't think so!

When you can see that there's always TWO sides to every story, let me know!

[samikeyp]

Yes you did...here it is again...


Just my opinion on Cowboy fans from what I observed in this forum.

Now I know you are lying because you are trying to turn my own words against me.


Is every cowboy fan world wide located in this one forum? I don't think so!
I never once said that they were, in fact I said that it was NOT the case. Nice try.

When you can see that there's always TWO sides to every story, let me know!

I did and I recognized that....you chose to ignore that I did.

[Rescueone]

Yes you did...here it is again...



Now I know you are lying because you are trying to turn my own words against me.


I never once said that they were, in fact I said that it was NOT the case. Nice try.


I did and I recognized that....you chose to ignore that I did.


O.K. how's this.... There are people out there in this forum who like the Cowboys, and there are people out there in this forum who can't stand the cowboys. True or not? So therefore..... no one has a grip either way....fair argument. That's where my thoughts were. I don't understand why you can't see it! It's Apples vs Oranges, which every you say you like, I can argue that the other is better. I won't be right, and I won't be wrong. It's an anrgument on a belief, and I'm not alone saying that there are fans in this forum who can't stand the "Boys", see King Manu's words. So Dallas doesn't have a grip on others and myself. Sorry if the truth hurts!!

[samikeyp]

O.K. how's this.... There are people out there in this forum who like the Cowboys, and there are people out there in this forum who can't stand the cowboys. True or not? So therefore..... no one has a grip either way....fair argument. That's where my thoughts were. I don't understand why you can't see it! It's Apples vs Oranges, which every you say you like, I can argue that the other is better. I won't be right, and I won't be wrong. It's an anrgument on a belief, and I'm not alone saying that there are fans in this forum who can't stand the "Boys", see King Manu's words. So Dallas doesn't have a grip on others and myself. Sorry if the truth hurts!!

see, more lies. not once did I say anything mentioned in your post. Never once did I say one team has a grip over any other team or anything to that nature. All I said was that not all the Cowboys fans here (in the forum or San Antonio) were complaining that the Saints were here or on TV. Never once did I say everyone here (in the forum or SA) were Cowboys fans. Never once did I say the Cowboys have a "grip" on all football fans in SA. I got what you were saying...I just didn't agree. Was I supposed to? You were basing your opinion of Cowboy fans as a whole by the actions of a few....a few I might add that I also did not agree with (noticed you were too busy being condescending to notice that)

Sorry if the truth hurts? What is this? 8th grade?

That truth that you claim is hurting me, was the same one you were adhering to. San Antonio first. Something I had also indicated, something that you actually propped me for and something you chose to forget I said for the sole purpose of boosting your argument.

[samikeyp]

can you say no clue.

How do you figure? Just because I don't agree with someone I don't have a clue?

[Rescueone]

and just because one says they don't have a grip doesn't make it so either. You are accusing Cowboys fans of bias, yet you are using your own Anti-Cowboy bias as the sole basis of your argument.

I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. The only thing for me that would change that is a hometown team. For me, hometown loyalty comes first. I wouldn't abandon rooting for the Cowboys but if they played the San Antonio Whatevers....I would root for SA.




Nice to know you have a grip on the exact status of fandom here in SA and that you feel all Cowboys fans think alike. :rolleyes


Here you go, just in case you forgot what you said! That's my argument!
and yes I did give you props for supporting a team in San Antonio. I just can't see why you don't see the argument. Maybe it is 8th grade! and there is no use!

[samikeyp]

I do see the argument (more condensencion by you...nice) I just don't agree with you. Thank you for posting my post though and proving my point.

[Rescueone]

I do see the argument (more condensencion by you...nice) I just don't agree with you. Thank you for posting my post though and proving my point.

Alright, so were good? Finally we agree to disagree! :elephant I see you're point and you see mine. So it's grip vs no grip..No one has it... No condensenting attitude intended, until you mentioned 8th grade.....you had me worried there for a minute. Next debate!!!!

[samikeyp]

We agree on this much...no one can be sure what, if any, grip any team has here in SA. There are a lot of Cowboys fans here but with all the people who are here through the Military and a lot who have retired here...many teams are represented. You can go to Fatso's sports bar and see several teams with their own little sections. I still do not believe that an entire fan base has one single mindset. Been fighting that battle as a Spurs fan for years and will probably still continue. :) although with the appearance of less Laker fans...it might not be so bad.

[Rescueone]

We agree on this much...no one can be sure what, if any, grip any team has here in SA. There are a lot of Cowboys fans here but with all the people who are here through the Military and a lot who have retired here...many teams are represented. You can go to Fatso's sports bar and see several teams with their own little sections. I still do not believe that an entire fan base has one single mindset. Been fighting that battle as a Spurs fan for years and will probably still continue.


True! I was one of those military fans at Fatso routing on the Bills. Then all the smoke got to me and I decided to go ahead and get the NFL ticket. I know cowboy fans are well represented here in San Antonio. I will cheer on any team San Antonio finally gets. I just hope it's either Indy or an expansion team.

[samikeyp]

Yeah, Fatso's IMO is not the best place to watch a game. They have plenty of TV's but its always crowded, they never have enough waitstaff and the food is overpriced and not that good. Although I did almost get into a fight there with a Laker fan...he backed off when he realized he was surrounded! :lol

[Rescueone]

Yeah, Fatso's IMO is not the best place to watch a game. They have plenty of TV's but its always crowded, they never have enough waitstaff and the food is overpriced and not that good. Although I did almost get into a fight there with a Laker fan...he backed off when he realized he was surrounded! :lol


Spurs fans about to whip some LA ass. That's so true! :lol :lol

[2centsworth]

SA can not support an NFL team. There are way too many Dallas fans in SA and they would never spend thousands of dollars to support a SA team. There is not enough money in SA to support the NFL team there. You need corporate luxury boxes filled to capacity to support an NFL team for the most part.

If Jacksonville can do it SA and the surrounding areas will easily do it. Also, I've been a die hard Cowboy fan since I can remember but would dump them in a NY minute over our own team.

[ShoogarBear]

It's not a question of whether a franchise could exist in SA and be supported by the city as much as it is a realization that a franchise in the 2nd largest media market in the US is a priority for the NFL as the economic impact is significantly greater than trying to get more Texans to watch more football.

It isn't quite that simple, in that there is a very interesting argument on the potential economic advantages of NOT having an expansion team in LA.

It goes like this: right now the NFL is free to broadcast any game they want in LA, thus guaranteeing the largest possible TV ratings from the #2 market (and TV is where the big money is). The NFL has such a pull that they will get the ratings even without a team in LA.

If you put an expansion team there, they will probably suck for the first 4-5 years. The NFL will, however, be required to broadcast their games to the LA market. For the first year or so, this would probably provide the same or better ratings than no team. If the team continues to suck, however, in the long run this could be detrimental to the NFL cumulative ratings.

It's not to say that the NFL WON'T put a team back in LA. It just may explain why there isn't such a rush to do it.

[blaze89]

If Jacksonville can do it SA and the surrounding areas will easily do it. Also, I've been a die hard Cowboy fan since I can remember but would dump them in a NY minute over our own team.

Jacksonville has to seal off sections of the Gator Bowl (hate corporate names on stadiums) to avoid blackouts.

[samikeyp]

Jacksonville has to seal off sections of the Gator Bowl (hate corporate names on stadiums) to avoid blackouts.

They had to do that in LA for the Raiders too.

[Jimcs50]

I can not see 65,000 SA fans spending 200 dollars a week for 8 weeks.


There just is not enough people earning that much money who would want to sit through a loser team week after week.

[cherylsteele]

Jacksonville has to seal off sections of the Gator Bowl (hate corporate names on stadiums) to avoid blackouts.
You want a franchise to have to seal off seats....don't you want people in them? If they can't at least sell enpugh tickets consistanly to avoid blackouts then maybe they should not have a team.

I have been saying all along that if they believe Jacksonville is a good NFL market then San Antonio certainly is....even more so if in clude Corpus, Austin, Laredo, and the Del Rio area. No one will know for sure unless you give our area a chance. In fact a third Texas team could be good for the league by creating a great rivalry between the teams.

There are those saying that local cowboy fans won't support a local team. They have nothing to back that up. I believe if we were to acquire a team many of those fans WOULD support them.

Sure LA is a bigger market....big deal IMHO...they had TWOchanecs (Rams, Raiders) to keep and support a team, Both of them were decent teams but they couldn't/wouldn't support them sufficiently. What makes you think they would support a franchise like the Saints that have little positive on-field success? I say it is time to give somone else a chance.

[Rescueone]

I can not see 65,000 SA fans spending 200 dollars a week for 8 weeks.

There just is not enough people earning that much money who would want to sit through a loser team week after week.


Are these figures for a family of 5? How do you get 200 dollars a week? Are you including Spurs games in that total?

[cherylsteele]

Are these figures for a family of 5? How do you get 200 dollars a week? Are you including Spurs games in that total?

Hmmm....tickets are $30 - $125....not sure were the $200 comes from...even if you included parking and refreshments.

[Jimcs50]

Hmmm....tickets are $30 - $125....not sure were the $200 comes from...even if you included parking and refreshments.


I am talking average ticket price of $65.

My bro inlaw has season ticked for the Texans and he told me that it cost him an average of $1700 a year for him and his son and that he is tired of spending that amt of money alraedy because his team is still sucking.

He includes parking and concessions.

Wealthy people would spend 2-4 K a year on a losing franchise, but people that live from paycheck to paycheck(98% of SA people) would grow tired of spending that money on a team that averages 5 wins a year.....that is a fact.

[Marcus Bryant]

It isn't quite that simple, in that there is a very interesting argument on the potential economic advantages of NOT having an expansion team in LA.

It goes like this: right now the NFL is free to broadcast any game they want in LA, thus guaranteeing the largest possible TV ratings from the #2 market (and TV is where the big money is). The NFL has such a pull that they will get the ratings even without a team in LA.

If you put an expansion team there, they will probably suck for the first 4-5 years. The NFL will, however, be required to broadcast their games to the LA market. For the first year or so, this would probably provide the same or better ratings than no team. If the team continues to suck, however, in the long run this could be detrimental to the NFL cumulative ratings.

It's not to say that the NFL WON'T put a team back in LA. It just may explain why there isn't such a rush to do it.


If they have 1 team in LA, then if the market is that important the schedule makers can adjust for that. Sure, they lose the option to switch to an unexpectedly prime matchup, but I think the addition of a franchise in that market would more than make up for the loss of that 'option'.

[cherylsteele]

I am talking average ticket price of $65.

My bro inlaw has season ticked for the Texans and he told me that it cost him an average of $1700 a year for him and his son and that he is tired of spending that amt of money alraedy because his team is still sucking.

He includes parking and concessions.

Wealthy people would spend 2-4 K a year on a losing franchise, but people that live from paycheck to paycheck(98% of SA people) would grow tired of spending that money on a team that averages 5 wins a year.....that is a fact.

$65 avg. price...okay

65 ticket
10 parking
30 concessions
20 souveniers like a program

125 total

where is the $ 200? There is about a $75 dollar difference if you use your average ticket price

[blaze89]

It's more than just attendence and sellouts.

Attendence is not the key to keeping the NFL. I've said it before and I'll say it again...it's takes more than attendance and sell outs to keep an NFL team - just ask Cleveland in 95, Baltimore in 84 and Oakland fans who lost the Raiders in 82.

It's corporate dollars and coporate suites, without it, the long term viability of the NFL in San Antonio is shaky at best.

Then you have the city shelling out tax dollars to lure a team here. What does the city have to offer in finances? St. Louis offered the Rams $500 million dollar package to leave L.A. and that was ten years ago.

We keep mentioning South Texas and the support they can give to a San Antonio team but Jacksonville's "market" includes Orlando-Daytona Beach area as well and they are struggling.

Jags fans suffer TV blackouts (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050918/SPORTS03/509180510)

If San Antonio were to include Austin that's approx 2 million people - and the case for Austin is support UT football or S.A. pro football? I hightly doubt Austin will chose S.A. pro football over UT football. You put a stadium between Austin and S.A. - wouldn't you run the risk of possibly alienating the rest of South Texas?

[Marcus Bryant]

What's more appealing, the Austin media market or the Valley?

Between SA and Austin plus the I-35 corridor, I think you are looking at a total population of 3+ million plus much better looking avg per capita income stat and a much more attractive corporate base.

Just name the team the "Texas ______ ".

I just do not see a strategy that relies on the Valley for part of a 'market base' as being successful.

[blaze89]

What's more appealing, the Austin media market or the Valley?

Between SA and Austin plus the I-35 corridor, I think you are looking at a total population of 3+ million plus much better looking avg per capita income stat and a much more attractive corporate base.

Just name the team the "Texas ______ ".

I just do not see a strategy that relies on the Valley for part of a 'market base' as being successful.

That is what many are saying that we have to include the Valley.

I still have a hard time believing Austin will support pro football in San Antonio over UT football. UT has the corporate base which is bascially giving Mack Brown money as well as UT athletics.

I wish the solution to this was so simple but with all the complexities involved and the outside forces going against San Antonio, I have a hard time buying into the fact that the NFL wants to come here and that the NFL will survive here.

[Marcus Bryant]

True, but NFL football should be a big enough draw in its own right. Also, that would be Austin's 1st major pro franchise, so perhaps it wouldn't be as hard to gain support there.

[blaze89]

True, but NFL football should be a big enough draw in its own right. Also, that would be Austin's 1st major pro franchise, so perhaps it wouldn't be as hard to gain support there.

Austin's 1st pro franchise? The team would belong to San Antonio with the San Antonio name.

NFL football is a draw, no doubt but it's more than the turnstile count, it's all about corporate. Majority of Austin's corporate dollars, I believe, are staying in Austin.

[Marcus Bryant]

That is why you have to include Austin in a meaningful way. If the stadium is located in New Braunfels or San Marcos, then the team is still in the SA area, which should be enough to attract fans throughout South Texas.

Also, while UT does draw on the corporate base in Austin, it's still primarily a college team that gets its support from alumni in Austin and beyond.

I think the best example is the Spurs. Yes, there are Spurs fans in Austin, but the Spurs don't own the market. I think it would be much different if the team was a SA/Austin team along the lines of what I have described above.

[Vashner]

We still need high speed rail to Austin...

[Rescueone]

$65 avg. price...okay

65 ticket
10 parking
30 concessions
20 souveniers like a program

125 total

where is the $ 200? There is about a $75 dollar difference if you use your average ticket price


He said for him and his son. Add another $65 for a ticket. and throw in a jersey every week instead of the program I guess.

[cherylsteele]

He said for him and his son. Add another $65 for a ticket. and throw in a jersey every week instead of the program I guess.

I don't see where he said that.....he his bro in-law had Texasn tickets....he never mentioned his son that I saw.

[Rescueone]

I am talking average ticket price of $65.

My bro inlaw has season ticked for the Texans and he told me that it cost him an average of $1700 a year for him and his son and that he is tired of spending that amt of money alraedy because his team is still sucking.

He includes parking and concessions.

Wealthy people would spend 2-4 K a year on a losing franchise, but people that live from paycheck to paycheck(98% of SA people) would grow tired of spending that money on a team that averages 5 wins a year.....that is a fact.


There's his quote!

[cherylsteele]

There's his quote!
Thank you...sorry, I misread the statement.

[Vashner]

I guess what I was thinking is..

San Antonio likes to win.. if we had a franchise we could build it with true athletes instead of these overpaid jerks that we have in the NFL now.

And that scares the commish... Because of how the Media said that our NBA champ series was boring and low in numbers...

He's afraid of WINNING Here not just playing..

[Jimcs50]

$65 avg. price...okay

65 ticket
10 parking
30 concessions
20 souveniers like a program

125 total

where is the $ 200? There is about a $75 dollar difference if you use your average ticket price

the average family has 3 tickets, but I was being conservative.