Spurs NBA Championships effect NFL Commishioners views.
I think the commish does not want to be like the NBA... with San Antonio delivering a champion team and river parades...
He was born in NJ... he's like friggin no ring Jayson Kidd.. that small market just not good enough for him. Or too good?
How is that for a tin foil theory?
SA can not support an NFL team. There are way too many Dallas fans in SA and they would never spend thousands of dollars to support a SA team. There is not enough money in SA to support the NFL team there. You need corporate luxury boxes filled to capacity to support an NFL team for the most part.
San Antonio can support a NFL team. This area is well populated, has the necessary corporation sponsorship in the area, and I believe any existing or expansion NFL team with the name San Antonio on it's jersey will have it's fans. Just because one say's "Dallas" has a grip on the San Antonio market doesn't make it so. I can't stand the Cowpukes! I'm in San Antonio and I know I'm not the only one who can't stand that sorry ass team. It's like a Spurs fan routing for the Mavs vs against Spurs living in San Antonio. Get off of Dallas's jock, this is San Antonio! Move to Dallas! Not everyone here likes Dallas. How can anyone not rout for the home team and for the city not to succeed! With those types of at udes from Cowpuke fans here the NFL commissioner would be correct to call San Antonio "Small Market" and in the "Gulf Coast Region" because Dallas fans who live in the best city in Texas are laughing and thinks it's so!.... Here's a note to you: He's insulting everyone who calls San Antonio and Austin home. Including you Dallas fans who live here. He thinks we're all too stupid to even question his comments. Do you realize he's calling you small minded, from a small friendly country town who doesn't even know where you are geographically on the map! He believes people with small minds and small thoughts really don't deserve a NFL team.
Wake up, everyone here should be outraged!! I know his plans are to put a team in LA. What or who team that is I don't care, but don't call this area small market when San Antonio and Austin are in the middle of the pack (19) when it comes to T.V. market size. We're not all stupid here! Just keep us in the mix when it comes to expansion or relocation because we deserve at least that much.
How do you know we cannot support an NFL team unless given the chance?
Toyota has said it would purchase $25mil if the saimts came...not sure if it was box seats or what though....I heard it on one of the local channels.
LA is much much bigger, had TWO chances and let both chances go.
Spurs le celebrations effect their choice? Is it because we don't loot, burn cars, commit lots of assaults with bodily injuries, riots? I guess we are too civilized for them.
i am a dallas cowboys fan, but given the opportunity to support my own team vs another, i chose to support my own team. how difficult a concept is that. plus i like pro football, i want to see pro football, i don't want to take a bus or weekend trip to dallas or houston to watch proball. get over it...
I think the idea that San Antonio can't support an NFL team is an archaic idea. San Antonio alone has at least 3 corporations that are, IIRC, in the Fortune 50: SBC, Valero, and Clear Channel. It has a coming influx of corporate money from Toyota. It also has some more localized and under publicized businesses that have been good in their sponsorship of the Spurs and other similar ventures, including: HEB and KCI. I'd be surprised if the similarly-sized markets in the NFL have substantially more corporate money than San Antonio.
I think one thing is true, though. San Antonio's loyalty to the Cowboys is harmful to its chances to get a team. The hullaballoo about the possibility that the Cowboys will be taken off of television in favor of a Saints game sort of points to the problem. If SA got a team (the "San Antonio Hypotheticals") and that team was in the NFC, Cowboys fans in SA would lose out on seeing the Cowboys for a number of weeks each season. That's the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Cowboys-related conflicts -- all of which would take from the local support base and make life difficult for the Hypotheticals.
I stand by my position that San Antonio, by and large, supports the idea of getting an NFL team, but would prefer that that team be the Dallas Cowboys.
I'll still be a Cowboys fan first, regardless of whatever team moved here. I'm sure there are a lot of people that feel that way.
San Antonio can support a team, no doubt. But it's not as attractive as the 2nd largest media market in the US. Also, while you do have a corporate base here that is significant, the city doesn't have as strong a middle class as you would expect. In some respects, the city is either feast or famine. You don't have that broad swath of households pulling in $70 to 80K between two income earners. Yes, you do have some major companies based here, but those operations are primarily their HQs. You don't have a large amount of well paying jobs relative to that corporate base. You have the 'headquarters' jobs and then you have a load of low paying travel and tourism jobs. That is what really hurts SA in relation to other metro areas its size.
and just because one says they don't have a grip doesn't make it so either. You are accusing Cowboys fans of bias, yet you are using your own Anti-Cowboy bias as the sole basis of your argument.Just because one say's "Dallas" has a grip on the San Antonio market doesn't make it so. I can't stand the Cowpukes! I'm in San Antonio and I know I'm not the only one who can't stand that sorry ass team.
I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. The only thing for me that would change that is a hometown team. For me, hometown loyalty comes first. I wouldn't abandon rooting for the Cowboys but if they played the San Antonio Whatevers....I would root for SA.
How can anyone not rout for the home team and for the city not to succeed! With those types of at udes from Cowpuke fans here the NFL commissioner would be correct to call San Antonio "Small Market" and in the "Gulf Coast Region" because Dallas fans who live in the best city in Texas are laughing and thinks it's so!....
Nice to know you have a grip on the exact status of fandom here in SA and that you feel all Cowboys fans think alike.
Last edited by samikeyp; 09-21-2005 at 12:19 PM.
I didn't think the point that Jim made had anything to do with comparing San Antonio and Los Angeles. There's no doubt that Los Angeles is, in every imaginable sense, the more attractive market for any pro sports league. Jim's statement struck me as an absolutist view -- that San Antonio inherently lacks the wherewithal to support an NFL team. My point, simply, was that the old saw about a lack of monied corporate interests in SA is now a fiction, since San Antonio has developed a fairly significant corporate profile in recent years, and not just with local businesses.
I'd agree that the socio-economics of San Antonio are far from ideal for a professional sports league that needs 60,000-70,000 fans at least 10 times a year. But I suspect that a football team would change the way that many chose to use their discrentionary income (to the extent that they have such income). That assumes, of course, that San Antonio football fans can do as mikey says and put aside the Cowboy bias and support the Hypotheticals.
and just because one says they don't have a grip doesn't make it so either. You are accusing Cowboys fans of bias, yet you are using your own Anti-Cowboy bias as the sole basis of your argument.
I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. The only thing for me that would change that is a hometown team. For me, hometown loyalty comes first. I wouldn't abandon rooting for the Cowboys but if they played the San Antonio Whatevers....I would root for SA.
Nice to know you have a grip on the exact status of fandom here in SA and that you feel all Cowboys fans think alike.
Yes I am, I'm just pointing out the "other half" of the argument! There are others out there like me that doesn't like Dallas period! The quote by JIMCS50 of "way too many Dallas fans her in SA" vs my "many that don't like Dallas". Call it like you're suppose to see it! Grip vs no grip plain and simple!
I'm glad to know that you would support a SA team!
Just my opinion on Cowboy fans from what I observed in this forum. The "I don't want to see the Saints on T.V. in SA if it means I can't see the Cowboys".....Waaaaahhhh! Makes me laugh! If SA get a team, one better get the DirecTV NFL ticket, or drive to the Dallas area to see them play, because Dallas won't be on T.V. in the SA area if they are placed in the NFC.
The San Antonio Rattlers.............uuuuuuuuummmm
I'm still a Cowboy fan!
San Antonio is becoming what LA is.
A basketball town.
Sure, I agree that the city could support a team. , New Orleans was somehow able to, though it took the state giving Benson a subsidy to keep him satisfied...temporarily.
Honestly, any franchise to be located in this part of Texas would have to involve Austin-San Marcos. Between SA and Austin plus the Valley, that would be a decent size media market plus it would improve the look of the market in terms of per capita income/discretionary income if you can break into the Austin market in a meaningful way.
Also, if you involve Austin and San Marcos, you have a larger tax base from which to finance a new stadium.
The question in my mind is not how will the team do in its first season, but rather in its third when the team's on its way to its 3rd 5-11 season. Fortunately, there would only be an overlap of about 2 months between the NFL and NBA seasons.
We do know that the city will support a winner.
Before I forget, Austin doesn't strike me as that great of a market for the Spurs. Sure, pretty much anything you get out of it is gravy.
A better question is, would San Antonio support a team like the Texans?
True, but who says Austin and San Marcos want to raise their taxes to finance a team in San Antonio? If I were a resident in either city, I'd be outraged...Shenanigans.
That's why you place the stadium between New Braunfels and San Marcos near I-35.
yes because all the Cowboys fans worldwide are in this forum.Just my opinion on Cowboy fans from what I observed in this forum.
And that still doesn't hold water because not even all the Cowboys fans were complaing about not seeing Dallas play. You admit to being biased so how can you make a rational point if clouded by bias?
That's what I am thinking. The Texans' home opener had a decent crowd, but there were not a few empty seats. After their performance last Sunday, I suspect there will be even more empty seats at the next home game.
Football is clearly much more traditionally a part of San Antonio fabric than is basketball.
20 years ago, if you gave San Antonioans the choice between having a 5-11 NFL team or a 3-time NBA champion, a very high percentage, perhaps even a majority, would have said the former.
Now that we actually have a 3-time champion, I suspect that is no longer true. Still, unless things have changed dramatically, support for high school football >>> HS basketball.
But you have to have a bigger economic base to support football than basketball. I still don't think SA has that, and would have to have support from Austin. Even with that, I think things would be shaky after a 4-5 year honeymoon period, UNLESS the team was a winner.
I'm a Cowboy fan and always will be PERIOD!! I'll be honest about who I'll root for incase of a SA v Dallas game. I'll probably root for the Cowboys, but hope SA does good in the season. I'll support the SA team, but the Cowboys are my fav team for 36 years. You don't suddenly turn on a switch and start going against the Cowboys. For those of you who aren't Cowboy fans, deal with it! Just b/c you're not a fan, it doesn't make it wrong to root for them even though SA would get a team. Alot of people are getting all excited about the Saints right now, but all the NFL is doing is dangling a big taco in front of SA, and the people are licking their chops over it! WAKE UP SA, WE'RE NOT GETTING A TEAM!!!! The Commish was right, we can't support a team. Right now everyone is saying they would support a team, but when the time comes to open their wallet, there will be alot of people looking to their neighbor for them to do the supporting!
bunch of traitors. You san antonio cowboy fans make me sick. Get out of san antonio. Jerry jones is a big part of why san antonio is not on the radar. San Antonio residents are brainwashed into believing they cant have a team. San Antonio can have a team but with morons on this board still on the cowboy express. it's sad. They should all move to dallas. I am for san antonio first period.
All right
yes because all the Cowboys fans worldwide are in this forum.
And that still doesn't hold water because not even all the Cowboys fans were complaing about not seeing Dallas play. You admit to being biased so how can you make a rational point if clouded by bias?
I think you meant all the cowboy fans in San Antonio. Fans were upset and had to be calmed down. That's what was reported.
How can a different opinion from an already biased statement to begin with not be biased? It's Apples vs Oranges! Cmon man!
Yes, Jones is surely (and to a much lesser extent, McNair) a significant reason that it will be rather difficult for San Antonio to land a franchise through expansion or relocation.
But it begins and ends with the attractiveness of the media market relative to LA's. It's not a question of whether a franchise could exist in SA and be supported by the city as much as it is a realization that a franchise in the 2nd largest media market in the US is a priority for the NFL as the economic impact is significantly greater than trying to get more Texans to watch more football. Plus, again, you have to factor in the motives of Tom Benson. About the only way SA can compete with LA is if you have a massive giveaway to the owner in the form of a sweetheart arena deal (ala the SBC Center).
The city population doesn't matter. What matters is the metro area population and average per capita income stats, and SA is far down on both of those lists. Honestly, if SA wanted to improve its chances of getting a NFL franchise, the civic and business leaders in SA would get in touch with their counterparts all along I-35 between SA and Austin. If you can get the entire I-35 corridor behind a team then you will have a much more attractive media market. I think that you could get Austin in general excited about a team if they have a significant part and the stadium is located 30 miles away rather than 80.
No, as usual you skew the truth for your own benefit. I was referring to this statment:
You make reference to the Cowboys whom you observed in THIS forum and you made the assumption that they speak for ALL Cowboys fans everywhere.Just my opinion on Cowboy fans from what I observed in this forum.
This statement:
was referring to those Cowboys fans IN THIS FORUM to whom you were referring to.And that still doesn't hold water because not even all the Cowboys fans were complaing about not seeing Dallas play
But at least you admit to being biased. When you can approach the situation without bias, let us know.
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