Debate this, TD in the MJ category soon?

[Rummpd]

Cannot include whole list but full article for subscribers is at: http://www.hoopsworld.com/member/article_8312.shtml

Refers to players in the mix for impact on the game as the next Jordan.


"The Timbers that Ought to Get More Consideration"

Lets start with the player that many of you might immediately would dismiss in the comparisons, as he is not a marketing dream, i.e., Tim Duncan.

However, like Shaquille O'Neal below, a strong case can be made that his impact on "winning basketball" is approaching that of Jordan's.

Mr. Duncan's resume right now is arguably the most impressive so far of NBA players - or at least those with more than five years of service. Duncan has three titles, 2 MVPs, has been first team NBA each year in the league, and is a 3 times finals MVP. He is also a superb defender and his career figures to be on the upswing with the addition of some substantial talent to an already championship squad in the Spurs.

Right there with Duncan is the "more media friendly", Shaquille O'Neal, who is still the most dominant interior force in the game. Like Duncan he has three titles (sharing those with Kobe Byrant below), and three finals MVPs. He is also won 2 scoring titles and like Duncan and Kobe Bryant has been correctly placed on several All NBA defensive teams.

"Now Those in the Current Discussion as Rated by this Editor"

1. Kobe Bryant. Granted Kobe has not won without Shaquille (but neither has O'Neal yet!). Granted he does not have MVPs or scoring titles but still this is a special player; that I fully believe is still as good if not better than either LeBron James or Dwayne Wade listed below. Kobe has also demonstrated repeatedly in his career that special "clutch factor".

He may not be MJ, but he is still pretty damm good - period! Don't bet against a great year from him this year under Phil Jackson again. He will improve this year on his already heady 22.4 PPG, 5.1 RBG, and 4.4 ASG. As a fan of other teams, if he has the ball in the final seconds, he still scares me as much as anyone in the game!

2. Dwyane Wade. Tough choice over next two-three below . . .

[batman2883]

TD is not the same position so it wont be compared, I think TMAC would have destroyed Jordan in his time. One on one of course, Jordan never really faced talent like that of Kobe or TMAC in his days.

[101A]

TD is not the same position so it wont be compared, I think TMAC would have destroyed Jordan in his time. One on one of course, Jordan never really faced talent like that of Kobe or TMAC in his days.

:rolleyes

Yeah, before 2000 the leauge was a bunch of 5'11" balding middle aged white guys and MJ.

[vanvannen]

TD is not the same position so it wont be compared, I think TMAC would have destroyed Jordan in his time. One on one of course, Jordan never really faced talent like that of Kobe or TMAC in his days.

Are you serious? That is the most ridiculous post I've ever read in this forum. TMac wouldn't stand a chance against Jordan's Bulls. In fact, he didn't have a strong impact in the game since he got to the NBA. (apart from ESPN highlights of course). You are talking about the best player ever against a quitter who never won shit.

[batman2883]

Are you serious? That is the most ridiculous post I've ever read in this forum. TMac wouldn't stand a chance against Jordan's Bulls. In fact, he didn't have a strong impact in the game since he got to the NBA. (apart from ESPN highlights of course). You are talking about the best player ever against a quitter who never won shit.

Read my post again, i said TMAC would have taken Jordan one on one not team against team, the rockets dont have a team that would have competed against the Bulls.....the spurs now do though

[picnroll]

I think the biggest chink in Jordan's armor of invincibility is the fact that in 1993-94 his first year in minor league baseball, the Bulls were able to amass a 55 - 27 record and take the Knicks, the eventual NBA finalists that year, to a game seven in the Eastern playoff semi-finals.

I think it would be unlikely for the Spurs to enjoy that kind of success sans Duncan for the year. That said I don't think Duncan is on Jordan's level. However, personally, I think Hakeem at his peak surpassed Jordan in total abilities and if you switched those player's teams it would be Hakeem with six or more rings.

[IceColdBrewski]

Jordan = Greatest player ever. Period.

[kskonn]

I don't know, Jordan is just a special player who came in to the leauge worked hard and always got better and better every year. Winning 3 and 3, probably winning four or more in a row had he not retired is incredible. I do not believe that T-mac could take jordan one on one, however as a team guy T mac will never be close to being what jordan was. I mean honestly jordan could do so much, to me the most direct comparison would be Kobe, he is a good all around player, once he masters the team concept and excepts phil we will see if he is as good as jordan was.

[kskonn]

TD is not the same position so it wont be compared, I think TMAC would have destroyed Jordan in his time. One on one of course, Jordan never really faced talent like that of Kobe or TMAC in his days.

OI think there was tons talent like t mac in jordans days. Drexler, barkley, reggie miller, malone, just to name a few.

[nkdlunch]

I think TMAC would have destroyed Jordan in his time.

:lmao :lmao

oh shit, that's funny

TMAC can't even get out of round 1 of the playoffs. And Jordan would have still kicked his ass 1 on 1, 1/2 on 1/2 or whatever.

[BlueShark#6]

Are you serious? That is the most ridiculous post I've ever read in this forum. TMac wouldn't stand a chance against Jordan's Bulls. In fact, he didn't have a strong impact in the game since he got to the NBA. (apart from ESPN highlights of course). You are talking about the best player ever against a quitter who never won shit.

Amen Brother.

[Mr.Vas Deferns]

This is how I see it:

If T.D. would have say for example played on that Portland team that went to the finals Portland would have won it. If T.D. was on that Laker team in 91 in place of Vlade, The Lakers would have won it and so on and so on. Tim is not to be under rated. Jordan is.

Sorry, I was never really a big Jordan Fan.

Think about. Put Tim as P.F. in any of those teams that went to the finals and I still am convinced "that" team would have taken it.

My personal opinion.

[Spurminator]

I don't really agree with that position because all that would really prove is that Tim Duncan is better than Vlade Divac and Kevin Duckworth/Buck Williams. I think you could say that about a lot of All Star-level players.

The real litmus would be if you replaced Jordan with Duncan, would the Bulls be as good. But even that is somewhat oversimplified.

[Triumph]

that is a great point Spurminator...

i'd venture to say TD does NOT win 6 titles with the same teams Jordan had in Chicago, and i'd also venture to say Jordan has at least 4 Rings with the same Spurs teams TD has had...

Jordan is in his own class...the only ones that can be in his class are Magic and Maybe Bird.

TD is right there though, in the 2nd tier. I guarantee you any of the above players would not be bricking freethrows in the clutch...and the fact that they did play different, ball control oriented positions does give them the opportunity for greater stats, contributions, but when you count Heart? yeah, TD is in that class, no doubt. MORE so than Kobe and Shaq by FAR. Last shot? yeah, that's Kobe or TMac or Lebron, BUT lemme tell you...i'm more than satisfied with it being in TD, Manu's or...hmmmm...i guess that guy Robert Horry can hit a few too...:tu

These are Great Times to be a Spurs Fan!!!

[z0sa]

Duncan has something only the greatest players have - masterful basketball abilities both mental and physical, but that drive, that force, that will to win thats so strong it affects all of his teammates. If we can tie or win with a two, I'd always have duncan take the shot, and if we need 3, then the ball still goes through duncan.

[Mr.Vas Deferns]

I still disagree. I'll take any western conference team with T.D. in it and still think T.D. and that team beat the Bulls. Again, always thought M.J. was over rated. Always have. Always will.

But thats for another discussion as to why I think M.J. was over-hyped. This hypothetical is fun.

[JamStone]

Tim Duncan is the best power forward in the history of the NBA. I don't think it's even close. Karl Malone, Bob Petit, Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett, and Kevin McHale are all well behind. TD has the best combination of physical tools, mental edge, and championship mettle.

Now is he without fault? Of course not. As recently as the 2004 playoffs, Tim Duncan struggled with the most basic of basketball fundamentals, his free throw shooting. And, as recent as the 2005 NBA finals, people questioned whether Tim Duncan could really take over a game when it counted (game 7) without a guy like David Robinson there to help him. He proved he could.

Now, while MICHAEL JORDAN is considered by many as the best player ever to play the game, I personally don't think he's even the best guard to ever play the game. I think OSCAR ROBERTSON was a better overall player than Michael Jordan. However, there is no questioning that MJ mastered the mental aspect of winning better than anyone in the history of the NBA not named BILL RUSSELL.


IS TIM DUNCAN in the same category or discussion as Michael Jordan? Sure, absolutely. A multiple championship winner, a multiple regular season MVP, a multiple NBA finals MVP. Sure, he's in the same discussion as MJ. Is he AS GOOD AS Michael Jordan. I don't know if that's the case. Because once Michael Jordan got past the Bad Boy Pistons, he couldn't be beat when it came to the playoffs. Disregard the half-season when he returned from baseball. His prime years, he was unstoppable. I think Tim Duncan can still be beat in the playoffs. And, maybe that's more of an indication that the competition is better in Tim Duncan's era, considering Shaquille O'Neal's teams. However, it's not Michael Jordan's fault that Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Patrick Ewing, and Karl Malone couldn't beat him.

Tim Duncan is in the same category. But, TD is still a few more championships away from the likes of Michael, Russell, and Magic.

[Spurminator]

Some numbers, for what they're worth...

Win Shares - Best Season Totals (Since 1978)

1 Michael Jordan 56 1988
Michael Jordan 56 1989
Michael Jordan 56 1990
Michael Jordan 56 1996
Shaquille O'Neal 56 2000
6 Michael Jordan 55 1991
7 Michael Jordan 52 1997
David Robinson 52 1994
9 Magic Johnson* 51 1990
David Robinson 51 1995
11 Michael Jordan 50 1992
David Robinson 50 1996
13 Charles Barkley 49 1990
Moses Malone* 49 1982
15 Charles Barkley 48 1989
Larry Bird* 48 1985
Tim Duncan 48 2002
Tim Duncan 48 2003
Kevin Garnett 48 2004
Magic Johnson* 48 1987
Michael Jordan 48 1993
Karl Malone 48 1997
Karl Malone 48 1998
David Robinson 48 1991

May not be all that relevant to the discussion, but I liked seeing David Robinson so many times...

Glossary: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html

[Triumph]

your bias is showing vas deferens...

obviously TD is a much better player now, and the games were Close back then, one even went to OT, i think...but Jordan's bulls beat the spurs in 97 and 98 with TD on the court...as a matter of fact...if Anyone has any of those games, nba authorized of course...please pm me or email [email protected] or call me...check the prof for #.

Now could any of Jordans Championship teams beat Today's Spurs in a 7 game series?

It would be close, but with TD, Manu, TP, and Bruce to lock down on MJ...I definitely like our teams chances...Pippen would go off and Jordan would definitely get all the calls...but dayum, it would be awesome to see...wonder which team Kerr would want to play on...he'd be the one opinion that could settle it...:tu

[z0sa]

MJ would score 40 with bruce on him because the ball was always in his hands. He was what, 13/33 fg in his last game as a bull? When youre that good and you have the ball all the time... you just cant be stopped from scoring.

[Triumph]

MJ would score 40 with bruce on him because the ball was always in his hands. He was what, 13/33 fg in his last game as a bull? When youre that good and you have the ball all the time... you just cant be stopped from scoring.


sure he could...maybe more...but he couldn't beat the spurs by himself...well maybe...but he'd have to get bruce out of the game and manu too...and get TD in foul trouble and get hot from outside...then he could do it...

TD cannot be single covered either...he's just like jordan in that regard...they only way to Contain them is TEAM D...Kobe can go off anytime, but without Shaq to keep the games close, his last minute heroics will not be seen in the postseason...who cares who scores the most points...it's who wins the game that matters. :tu

[z0sa]

Manu could not defend Michael Jordan. It would be, who will do more for their team (because both will score alot of points): TD or MJ.

[bigzak25]

of course Manu could defend MJ...what are you smoking?

could Manu shut him down...OF COURSE NOT...but i bet Manu could get a steal or two and draw a charge, make MJ work...just let #20 get a couple more years of Ref Respect under his belt...Manu IS Jordan, but without the outside touch....YET...:tu :smokin

[z0sa]

Manu guard Jordan? Last I checked, nobody could guard Jordan. Manu is a flopper, and he isnt gonna get any calls. Jordan always got the calls.

[Rummpd]

To who all who say Michael Jordan is greatest ever I give you a Larry Bird quote - asked was MJ best ever he saw = "one of two". At the level of the 5-6 best there is no best only opinion (!) and in my opinion either Bill Russell or Wilt more dominant than MJ and case can also be made for Kareem.

Duncan is now not far from that level = give him 6 more years and he may well be in discussion with MJ and others for top 1-5 period.

[Obstructed_View]

If Dwayne Wade is being mentioned in this discussion after only two years in the league then Shaq should get the nod hands down as having the greatest impact in the league.

[bigzak25]

Manu guard Jordan? Last I checked, nobody could guard Jordan. Manu is a flopper, and he isnt gonna get any calls. Jordan always got the calls.

yes, cuz as well all know, Jordan NEVER PUSHED OFF...did you catch the last shot vs the Jazz? IF THE REFS GIVE YOU THE CALL, that is all that matters man...wow, your a great spurs fan...:tu

[callo1]

TD is not the same position so it wont be compared, I think TMAC would have destroyed Jordan in his time. One on one of course, Jordan never really faced talent like that of Kobe or TMAC in his days.


Or maybe he did face that level of competition back then but it didn't look like he did because he was head and shoulders above the rest. The great ones make it look easy.


Remember, he played against Grant Hill and the next Jordan Penny Hardaway:)

[Man In Black]

What the hell? All these peeps telling it like today's athlete is so much better than athlete's from other eras. That is BS. The game is better and there are more athletes for every position on the court but those special players are players who could dominate in ANY ERA. That is what Tim Duncan is. That is what Jordan is. Jordan had people that could limit him. Hell Joe Dumars at 1 time was his constant nemesis holding Mike from his ring for a very long time until Mike finally broket through.

I can anem 1 athlete from the 60's whose skills would crush guys like TMac and Kobe and LeBron. The man's name was Maurice Stokes. and literally...he was a frickin' badass.

In the 1950s, his ability to beat opponents to rebounds with his muscular body, quickness and positioning was nearly unparalleled. He averaged more than 20 rebounds per game in college, more than 17 in the NBA. He passed well, too, good enough to be among the NBA's assist leaders, and averaged double figures in scoring.

Maurice Stokes was one of basketball's best forwards then, one of its least-known stars now. Stokes, 6-foot-7 and 240 pounds, wasn't around long enough to be remembered like many of his peers. In the final regular-season game of the 1957-58 season, his third year as a pro, the Cincinnati Royals all-star fell to the floor, hit his head and was knocked unconscious.



In only his second season, he led the league in rebounds and was third in assists. Red Auerbach says Stokes was Magic Johnson before there was a Magic Johnson.


Stokes made an immediate impact, getting 32 points, 20 rebounds and eight assists in his NBA debut. He went on to average 16.8 points in 1955-56 and a league-best 16.3 rebounds, snatching a franchise-record 38 in one game, and was voted the NBA's Rookie of the Year.

"The first great, athletic power forward," Bob Cousy said years later. "He was Karl Malone with more finesse."

Twyman also became a rookie starter for the Royals and averaged 14.4 points and 6.5 rebounds.

In Stokes' second season, he set an NBA record by grabbing 1,256 rebounds (17.4 per game), ranked third in the league in assists with 331 (4.6 average) and scored 15.6 points a game.



When you're called Magic before Magic AND Karl Malone before Karl Malone...You peeps should RECOGNIZE.

[DesiSpur_21]

Gotta agree with MIB.

These days athletes get all help from the advances in medical science and sports science. A great talent in 50s, 60s could still have been a star in this era.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Td>god>jordan

[woodseed]

^
Wahaha, I definitely agree. I was a Jordan fan before though, before he came back the 3rd time... Had he not shown his "mortal-ness", I would have said: TD>GOD=JORDAN :)

[bigzak25]

Gotta agree with MIB.

These days athletes get all help from the advances in medical science and sports science. A great talent in 50s, 60s could still have been a star in this era.


well, thanks for the 411 MIB, i was igorant about what sounds like a great player...

so other than him and Russell and maybe a couple more guys, i think it could be said that the competition level was low in the league back then.

TD, Jordan, Magic, Bird ALL could have had a run like Russells back then imo.

Still, the Man deserves credit for winning 8 in a row with the celts...:tu

screw shaq...he couldn't even win ONE game vs the rockets, and it took Kobe AND Phil AND others before he could get the job done in LA. Most dominant inside of 3 feet from the rim, YES...Most dominant in the league..NO...most dominant ever...not even close. that said, i'm still support him as a former San Antonio resident, but just a little...and he couldn't get the job done last year with Wade AND Mourning and a plethora of other role players...granted he came close...BUT TD&Company GOT THE JOB DONE!

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Jordan was great! Period. No one since he retired has managed to score 30 points a night on a consistent basis. I mean its not as if the Bulls were scoring points like the Suns last year. They were known to be a solid defensive team as well. No way TMac, or Kobe comes close to what he can do and what he has done. Pippen couldve been a franchise player anyway else but he stayed to play with Jordan. Jordan made everyone better. whoever heard of Jason Caffey or Scott Williams? You think any other team could put Dennis Rodman and Luc Longley as their starting frontline and win? Today's game requires a dominant big man with a combo guard supporting. Timmy has 2 combo guards in Manu and Parker (yes I dont consider Parker a true point guard). Timmy also has a much better cast than Jordan ever had. Dont believe me? Go compare the damn rosters. Thats why I believe that Jordan made good players great, he also made has beens useful and average players good. Thats MJ.

Timmy is close in terms of making everyone better around him and having the same winning attitude that MJ had and not being a prima dona. But maybe Timmy's problem is that he differs too much too often. That could be the reason why he will never attain MJ's greatness. You think kids growing up 20 years from now would remember Timmy like that would know Jordan? I think not. Blame the marketing. Blame the media. But Jordan is Jordan.

[Man In Black]

You think kids growing up 20 years from now would remember Timmy like that would know Jordan? I think not. Blame the marketing. Blame the media. But Jordan is Jordan.


I don't give a rat's ass about what marketers or media tell me. If I listened to them, I shouldn't be a Spurs fan. If I listened to them, I'd beleive that the Spurs are boring. If I listened to them, I'd be like everyother non-Spur fan...LOOKING UP AT THE CHAMPS AND ASKING HOW DO THEY DO IT?

A real hoop fan will take the time to study the game, look at all the participants, observe, study quantitative statistics to derive true greatness. While Jordan is without a doubt, one of the all-time greats, and probably the most competetive player ever...there are some things that other players at other positions have done that Jordan could never do. I mean Jordan ever average 50 points a game for an entire season? How about average a triple-double an entire season?

Come on...today's players are amazingly talented, but let's not act as if the L DIDN'T HAVE GREATNESS in times past. They did and there are some real standout players that could kick ass today if they played like they did then...today.


As for no one hasn't scored 30 points consistently since MJ. AI this past year averaged 30.7 points per. Sounds pretty consistent to me.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I don't give a rat's ass about what marketers or media tell me. If I listened to them, I shouldn't be a Spurs fan. If I listened to them, I'd beleive that the Spurs are boring. If I listened to them, I'd be like everyother non-Spur fan...LOOKING UP AT THE CHAMPS AND ASKING HOW DO THEY DO IT?

A real hoop fan will take the time to study the game, look at all the participants, observe, study quantitative statistics to derive true greatness. While Jordan is without a doubt, one of the all-time greats, and probably the most competetive player ever...there are some things that other players at other positions have done that Jordan could never do. I mean Jordan ever average 50 points a game for an entire season? How about average a triple-double an entire season?

Come on...today's players are amazingly talented, but let's not act as if the L DIDN'T HAVE GREATNESS in times past. They did and there are some real standout players that could kick ass today if they played like they did then...today.


As for no one hasn't scored 30 points consistently since MJ. AI this past year averaged 30.7 points per. Sounds pretty consistent to me.
If you're refering to Wilt, you also have to take into account the level of competition they had back then my friend. You really think Wilt could drop 50 every night against players of today?? You're delusional!

[bigzak25]

if you ask me, this is the bottomline,

TD is HALFWAY to Jordan status, as he has been the MAIN OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE player for 3 titles. okay, maybe DROB was the main Defensive for 2, but still, the point is valid.

The day may come when TD has 6...and since he is still in his 20's? The sky is the limit. :tu :smokin

[DieMrBond]

You guys are acting like Jordan sucked major ass when he came back for the 3rd time. The guy was 39/40 and still put up some big numbers... who else can say that, for that age? Kareem? Maybe, but i cant think of anyone else playing well at that age.

Im sorry, even as big a Tim Duncan fan as I am, TD isnt there yet. Hes up there in the top players this league has ever seen, but while Jordan is easily Top 5, Duncan is around Top 20.

[Triumph]

You guys are acting like Jordan sucked major ass when he came back for the 3rd time. The guy was 39/40 and still put up some big numbers... who else can say that, for that age? Kareem? Maybe, but i cant think of anyone else playing well at that age.

Im sorry, even as big a Tim Duncan fan as I am, TD isnt there yet. Hes up there in the top players this league has ever seen, but while Jordan is easily Top 5, Duncan is around Top 20.

i can agree with this...although I see MJ as top 3 all time, debateable order, and forsee TD finishing in the top 10 at least...barring injury or early retirement...(knock on wood on both counts)

[Warlord23]

You guys are acting like Jordan sucked major ass when he came back for the 3rd time. The guy was 39/40 and still put up some big numbers... who else can say that, for that age? Kareem? Maybe, but i cant think of anyone else playing well at that age.

Im sorry, even as big a Tim Duncan fan as I am, TD isnt there yet. Hes up there in the top players this league has ever seen, but while Jordan is easily Top 5, Duncan is around Top 20.

Amen. Even with the 2 years with the Wiz, Jordan was no slouch. in 01-02 his numbers were 22.9 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.2 APG, and in 02-03 he had 20, 6.1, 4, playing 35 MPG as the first option.

Anyway, for kids who figure T-Mac could last with MJ in his prime....
MJ version 1 (pre-1995-96) had the quickest first step ever seen. He could attack the rim hard with his athleticism, quickness and hops. Not just that, MJ had the ability to shoot the ball while falling laterally left or right, rising or falling vertically, or falling forward or backward. This combination of supreme physical gifts along with the mental desire made him unguardable one-on-one. Which was the reason why he could score 40 pts easily. A 37 PPG season average is unthinkable today, and a career average of 30 with 50% FGP is rare.

Let's go to MJ version 2 (1996-98). He's older, can't drive or dunk as much and with defenses getting younger and collapsing more and more, he needed to rely on a perfected go-to shot. Jordan's fadeaway was that shot. He became a post player in the Bulls' triangle, the role that Shaq played in the Lakers' triangle. He could do this because he was much stronger than Kobe or T-Mac is. Remember the 2002 All-star game that went to double overtime? Game tied in OT, MJ (a few months shy of 40) had the ball in his hand with 6'9" Shawn Marion on him. Iso play. Iverson, Carter, Marbury, T-Mac just standing and watching. What did Jordan do? Posted up Marion, turned round and hit a high-arcing fadeaway jumper. Jordan v2 was the only guard with a lethal go-to shot that he used time and again on iso plays.

McGrady and Kobe make far too many poor decisions, settle for far too many jumpers, have far too many bad shooting nights to keep up with MJ, either in a team game or in 1-on-1.

Some people say that Jordan didn't have to face zone defenses and that was an advantage. Both McGrady and Kobe have played when zone was outlawed. Zone was brought into the NBA from the 2001-02 season onwards, and even then in a flawed form due to the defensive three-second rule. The defensive bigs can't camp in the key forever to prevent people from driving the lane. Yes, the perimeter players can gamble a bit more on their man, but not too much. But then Jordan played when hand-checking was allowed. McGrady and Kobe didn't, and won't, have to face a Pistons beatdown. There'll be no McGrady Rules or Kobe Rules to try and stop one player as the Pistons did with Jordan.

[Triumph]

yes yes, but c'mon man...you have to grade TMac on a curve...the poor bastard is doing it with only one and a half eyes...:lmao

[themvp]

Td>god>jordan

I agree

[TDMVPDPOY]

Td 4 President

[batman2883]

TMAC would have crushed Jordan in his time sorry he would have scored on him like mad. I'm sorry to say but those talents you mentioned still wouldnt have matched up with the likes of Kobe, TMAC, and players of that superstar statue...and simply put, the Spurs of today would have beaten the bulls of yesteryear

[1Parker1]

TMAC would have crushed Jordan in his time sorry he would have scored on him like mad. I'm sorry to say but those talents you mentioned still wouldnt have matched up with the likes of Kobe, TMAC, and players of that superstar statue...and simply put, the Spurs of today would have beaten the bulls of yesteryear


:wtf :drunk The same T-mac who has yet to go past the first round of hte playoffs? I'm sorry, but MJ in his prime could have taken the 2004-05 Rockets to the finals.........easily.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Bulls title runs are overrated, spurs are the real deal

[1Parker1]

Bulls title runs are overrated, spurs are the real deal


Take off the homer glasses and come talk to me when the Spurs have won 6 rings.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Take off the homer glasses and come talk to me when the Spurs have won 6 rings.

Thought u were takin the year off this forums?? why you still here? :pctoss

[The Sports Philosopher]

Here's a quick comment on the original question for this thread.

I have to agree (somewhat) with Rummpd and JamStone. Duncan is one of the greatest of all time---and my personal favorite---but he has more to accomplish before he reaches Jordan-type status. This is not a criticism of Duncan, for as I see it, he's in the pantheon: he's one of the ten greatest players of all time, ranked (in my opinion) ahead of O'Neal, Pettit, and Moses Malone. But he has yet to supercede either Bird or Magic, even though he's close. And he has yet to approach the near-untouchable four: Jordan, Russell, Chamberlain, and Kareem (in no particular order).

Duncan's offensive and defensive accomplishments, All-NBA and All-Defense selections, winning percentage, MVP's and titles put him at his current rank. He needs another MVP or two and/or another title or two to eclipse Bird and Magic, given their resumes. And he has yet to catch the top four, since those players each amassed a ridiculous compilation (in some fashion) of MVP's, titles, league awards, and/or statistical records.

Again, this is no challenge to Duncan's worth: it is a tremendous feat to be ranked @ 7th all-time, just under Bird and Magic, with plenty of years left in his career. I just believe he has to achieve a bit more to be placed directly alongside Jordan and company.

[batman2883]

:wtf :drunk The same T-mac who has yet to go past the first round of hte playoffs? I'm sorry, but MJ in his prime could have taken the 2004-05 Rockets to the finals.........easily.

God damn it people read my post i never said team against team i said in a pick up game at the fucking park 1 on 1 TMAC would take Jordan hands down 10-8

[cheguevara]

TMac wouldn't even win a game of horse against MJ. He would get embarrased at 1-1.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Base on awards duncan is ahead of those guys you have mention like magic/bird etc, only thing duncan doesnt have is total stats records, thats the only thing that he doesnt have, Duncans game doesnt evolve around rackin up stats and records, he only cares about winning.

[The Sports Philosopher]

In response to TDMVPDPOY: As I recall, Duncan has as many championships as Bird, but one less MVP award. Similarly, he has two championships less than Magic, and one less MVP. He does have more All-NBA defense awards than either (I think more than both combined), and that's very important, but I give more credence to MVP's and titles in ranking players.

Again, this is no criticism of Duncan: he's the greatest PF ever, @ the seventh greatest player of all time, and he's still in his prime with a lot of support around him. I'd be surprised if he didn't catch Magic and Bird. And I wouldn't be shocked if he cracked the near-untouchable four.

Also, I agree with you that Duncan doesn't play for stats or records, he just plays to win. That's one of the things I like best about him.

[ambchang]

TD is not the same position so it wont be compared, I think TMAC would have destroyed Jordan in his time. One on one of course, Jordan never really faced talent like that of Kobe or TMAC in his days.
Man, what's with your obsession with T-Mac? He scores a lot, can defend when he wants to, but guess what? He doesn't! As "bad" as Jordon was early in his career, he never lost a series where he led 3-1, or 2-0 as a lower seed.
T-Mac is a marginal passer (those assists != good passes, see Stephon Marbury), doesn't exert himself defensively, and is not a winner despite a very capable teammate in Yao Ming.
Of course you do know that Jordan faced a certain gentleman named Clyde Drexler and demolished him despite Clyde's unbelievable talents. He has also kept the likes of Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing and Miller without a ring, and if not for the two year hiatis, possibly even Hakeem.
To say that "Jordan never really faced talent like that of Kobe or TMAC in his days." just proved that you have not really seen a basketball game before the mid 90's, or even the late 90's.

[batman2883]

Im not obssesed with TMAC i just think the man has got some serious talent he can hit three's, he can slam it down and he can shake anyone he wants. The dude is sick....face it, people place Jordan way too high i liked Jordan too he was great but not the greatest....

[peskypesky]

Jordan = Greatest player ever. Period.

Word.

[duncan_21]

Now is he without fault? Of course not. As recently as the 2004 playoffs, Tim Duncan struggled with the most basic of basketball fundamentals, his free throw shooting. And, as recent as the 2005 NBA finals, people questioned whether Tim Duncan could really take over a game when it counted (game 7) without a guy like David Robinson there to help him. He proved he could.


This perception I don't get. Obviously, if anyone paid attention robinson was a shadow of himself in his final year. No better then otis thorp in his prime with hakeem. It's not like robinson was dominating both ends of the court throwing up 20ppg and 10rpg.

I would say robinson that year was like having some of the better defensive minded post players in their prime like horace grant or otis thorp.

[batman2883]

Jordan doesnt =god of nba like most you people think

[peskypesky]

Jordan, at the age of 39, averaged 20 pts per game, along with 6 rebounds and 3.79 assists. That is sick!

But just as amazing, at the age of 39, another player averaged 20.58 points per game, along with 7.75 rebounds and 4.68 assists. At the age of 39!!

That man was Karl Malone, the second greatest power forward of all-time.

Just wondering what kind of numbers you guys/gals think Tim will be putting up in 10 years. Because of his knee problems (and ankles), I doubt he will be able to put up those kind of numbers at 39, but I can always dream, can't I?

[ambchang]

Base on awards duncan is ahead of those guys you have mention like magic/bird etc, only thing duncan doesnt have is total stats records, thats the only thing that he doesnt have, Duncans game doesnt evolve around rackin up stats and records, he only cares about winning.
Not to bash Duncan, but Magic got 3 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, 5 rings, 9 Finals appearance, 2 All-star MVPs, 9 All-NBA first teams (consecutive).
Bird has two Finals MVP, 3 MVPs, 3 rings, 9 All-NBA 1st team.
That's some pretty crazy awards. And the reason they didn't get more is because they play in the same era and took the awards away from each other.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Im not obssesed with TMAC i just think the man has got some serious talent he can hit three's, he can slam it down and he can shake anyone he wants. The dude is sick....face it, people place Jordan way too high i liked Jordan too he was great but not the greatest....

Go check out the numbers man. Jordan was a much better 3 point shooter than TMac.

Oh btw where would you place Jordan? Im curious.

[ambchang]

Im not obssesed with TMAC i just think the man has got some serious talent he can hit three's, he can slam it down and he can shake anyone he wants. The dude is sick....face it, people place Jordan way too high i liked Jordan too he was great but not the greatest....
Vince Carter can hit threes, he can slam it down and he can shake anyone he wants. The dude is sick. So what is your point? T-Mac isn't even held to the same regard as Kobe Bryant, a Jordan wannabe.
Sheesh, so could Harold Minor! See where that got him?
I have yet to see that you come up with any logical argument to why Jordan < TMac, other than your opinion and some trolling.
But on the other hand, I agree that Jordan is not the greatest, I would rate Wilt, Russell, Jabbar, Magic, and Oscar Robertson above him. Jordan, to me, is on the level of Bird, and slightly above Hakeem.

[Warlord23]

Vince Carter can hit threes, he can slam it down and he can shake anyone he wants. The dude is sick. So what is your point? T-Mac isn't even held to the same regard as Kobe Bryant, a Jordan wannabe.
Sheesh, so could Harold Minor! See where that got him?
I have yet to see that you come up with any logical argument to why Jordan < TMac, other than your opinion and some trolling.
But on the other hand, I agree that Jordan is not the greatest, I would rate Wilt, Russell, Jabbar, Magic, and Oscar Robertson above him. Jordan, to me, is on the level of Bird, and slightly above Hakeem.

To be considered the best ever you need to be a ... great offensive player, great defender, great leader, great winner.

Magic : Zero defense, not much of a scorer, but the best passer of all time
Russell : Not enough offense, best big man defender of all time though
Jabbar : Was a monstrous player in his youth, but didn't win as much then. Team success came steadily only when he was one weapon on a team of many weapons (Magic, KAJ, Worthy all won Finals MVPs in the Showtime era)
Oscar : Similar to Jabbar. He had awesome talent, but didn't win till he played with Jabbar.
Bird : Can be rated along with the above, he too played on stacked teams, and didn't shoulder as much of the offensive load, but was clutch as hell.

Only Jordan and Wilt score high on all those categories. Wilt was obviously a statistical monster in his early days, but declined (maybe by choice) to be the main scoring option in his later Laker days. And he had only 2 'ships to his name.

Michael Jordan is the only player to have a complete resume on all fronts:
A. Offense:
Highest career PPG average, 10 scoring titles, 5-time MVP, 10 All-NBA first team selections
B. Defense:
DPOY, 9 All-defensive first team selections
C. Winning:
6 championships with 2 three-peats, Finals MVP in all 6, 2 Olympic gold medals
D. Leadership:
The go-to guy on 6 championship teams, the anchor on both offense and defense, the guy who took and made numerous clutch shots under pressure.

Put the achievements of all the others in these 4 categories, you'll find that all of them lack something or the other. Only MJ had it all.

[Sense]

To be considered the best ever you need to be a ... great offensive player, great defender, great leader, great winner.

Magic : Zero defense, not much of a scorer, but the best passer of all time
Russell : Not enough offense, best big man defender of all time though
Jabbar : Was a monstrous player in his youth, but didn't win as much then. Team success came steadily only when he was one weapon on a team of many weapons (Magic, KAJ, Worthy all won Finals MVPs in the Showtime era)
Oscar : Similar to Jabbar. He had awesome talent, but didn't win till he played with Jabbar.
Bird : Can be rated along with the above, he too played on stacked teams, and didn't shoulder as much of the offensive load, but was clutch as hell.

Only Jordan and Wilt score high on all those categories. Wilt was obviously a statistical monster in his early days, but declined (maybe by choice) to be the main scoring option in his later Laker days. And he had only 2 'ships to his name.

Michael Jordan is the only player to have a complete resume on all fronts:
A. Offense:
Highest career PPG average, 10 scoring titles, 5-time MVP, 10 All-NBA first team selections
B. Defense:
DPOY, 9 All-defensive first team selections
C. Winning:
6 championships with 2 three-peats, Finals MVP in all 6, 2 Olympic gold medals
D. Leadership:
The go-to guy on 6 championship teams, the anchor on both offense and defense, the guy who took and made numerous clutch shots under pressure.

Put the achievements of all the others in these 4 categories, you'll find that all of them lack something or the other. Only MJ had it all.


:king

[batman2883]

Vince Carter can hit threes, he can slam it down and he can shake anyone he wants. The dude is sick. So what is your point? T-Mac isn't even held to the same regard as Kobe Bryant, a Jordan wannabe.
Sheesh, so could Harold Minor! See where that got him?
I have yet to see that you come up with any logical argument to why Jordan < TMac, other than your opinion and some trolling.
But on the other hand, I agree that Jordan is not the greatest, I would rate Wilt, Russell, Jabbar, Magic, and Oscar Robertson above him. Jordan, to me, is on the level of Bird, and slightly above Hakeem.

My point is that Jordan didn't go up against talent such as Kobe, TMAC, Carter, and such, if Jordan were in his prime today playing in the league he wouldnt be considered so great, he and Kobe would probably be the same....and I'm still not talking about team-wise im talking the player's alone.....if it were going to be a team battle i think the Spurs and Pistons of today would have killed the bulls of Jordans time

[batman2883]

I do place Jordan at #2 I think Wilt the stilt was the greatest player to ever play the game...he brought a new dimension to the game revolutionized the nba. Jordan was just a living highlight reel thats it.

[ambchang]

I do place Jordan at #2 I think Wilt the stilt was the greatest player to ever play the game...he brought a new dimension to the game revolutionized the nba. Jordan was just a living highlight reel thats it.
Have you ever seen Wilt played? You're just trolling.

[ambchang]

To be considered the best ever you need to be a ... great offensive player, great defender, great leader, great winner.

Magic : Zero defense, not much of a scorer, but the best passer of all time
Russell : Not enough offense, best big man defender of all time though
Jabbar : Was a monstrous player in his youth, but didn't win as much then. Team success came steadily only when he was one weapon on a team of many weapons (Magic, KAJ, Worthy all won Finals MVPs in the Showtime era)
Oscar : Similar to Jabbar. He had awesome talent, but didn't win till he played with Jabbar.
Bird : Can be rated along with the above, he too played on stacked teams, and didn't shoulder as much of the offensive load, but was clutch as hell.

Only Jordan and Wilt score high on all those categories. Wilt was obviously a statistical monster in his early days, but declined (maybe by choice) to be the main scoring option in his later Laker days. And he had only 2 'ships to his name.

Michael Jordan is the only player to have a complete resume on all fronts:
A. Offense:
Highest career PPG average, 10 scoring titles, 5-time MVP, 10 All-NBA first team selections
B. Defense:
DPOY, 9 All-defensive first team selections
C. Winning:
6 championships with 2 three-peats, Finals MVP in all 6, 2 Olympic gold medals
D. Leadership:
The go-to guy on 6 championship teams, the anchor on both offense and defense, the guy who took and made numerous clutch shots under pressure.

Put the achievements of all the others in these 4 categories, you'll find that all of them lack something or the other. Only MJ had it all.

There is always something that the others can't. Magic wasn't a good one on one defender, but he had always been a good team defender. The thing about him is that he played in a way that maximizes the talent around him. I could argue that Magic, Bird and Russell are the only ones who made his teammates around him much better. (note I said MUCH better). Laker team with no Magic went from a NBA Finalist to 8th seed and out in the first round, a Bulls team with no Jordan went from 57 wins to 55 wins, and a NBA champion to a 2nd round casualty. Huge difference I would say.
I somehow just factor in team success much more.
And don't forget that Wilt was only percentage points lower in his PPG for career than Jordan, and the only reason is that he passed more in his later days rather than score, he could have easily ended his career with a much higher PPG if he chose to be a ball hog. And then there is the part where you said Wilt is a winner, which he wasn't. He won two championships, both loaded with talent without him.

[bigzak25]

Thought u were takin the year off this forums?? why you still here? :pctoss


apparently to call you out on your homer bias...

defend your viewpoints, don't attack posters...:tu

[bigzak25]

God damn it people read my post i never said team against team i said in a pick up game at the fucking park 1 on 1 TMAC would take Jordan hands down 10-8

hold on there batman, you said,


TMAC would have crushed Jordan in his time sorry he would have scored on him like mad. I'm sorry to say but those talents you mentioned still wouldnt have matched up with the likes of Kobe, TMAC, and players of that superstar statue...and simply put, the Spurs of today would have beaten the bulls of yesteryear

maybe you said one on one in anther post that i missed...but in your immediately preceding post, no mention of 1 on 1...and you finish it by saying Spurs would beat Bulls (which i would love to see, I think it goes 7 fo sure!).

and then, even when you clarify you meant 1 on 1...you say hands down....which means...domination....but then predict a 10-8 score...which if we go by win by 2 rules....is the minimum someone could win by. Which is it?

Hands down or close game? I say both are wrong. TMac is a very very talented player...and he may even have greater hops than MJ did in his prime, but I haven't seen TMacs freethrow line dunk, so it's hard to say...

Point being, TMac would lose 1 on 1. Sure, he'd make a game of it, but I'd bet Jordan wins 10-5. And if a REF is there? Jordan wins 10-0, unless TMac launches from way downtown without Jordan on his ass...:lmao

[bigzak25]

Jordan was just a living highlight reel thats it.


Dominique was a living highlight reel that's it. TMac is a living highlight reel that's it. Vince Carter...right now, Lebron (although his time is coming), and every other balla without a ring....

Now Jordan? He was a SIX TIME NBA CHAMPION. That's it. :tu

[bigzak25]

when/if, cross you fingers...Tim Duncan leads our Spurs to title #6 and title #7....THEN we can say, yup, TD belongs in the discussion for BEST PLAYER EVER...

Til then...lets just focus on #fo. :tu :smokin :drunk


TD has only ONE weakness...and we all know it...his damn Freethrows.

Stop thinkin so much Tim! Just focus, and shoot the mofos....you've shot a million before...and stop with that stupid duck stance...:pctoss

you can do it Bigdawg...youda fuckin MVP! raise yo game....i want him to shoot a freethrow with his eyes closed one day, just like MJ did...

[batman2883]

TD thinks too damn much at the line if he were to just get the ball and not pause between dribble and shot, he would make that shit, he just thinks too damn much on it and im sorry guys but TMAC would pull out a close victory in a one on one game <--there i clarified it for you...

[Rummpd]

Jordan by IceManBrewski is lock at number one = that is an inane statement!

Oh for those who do not know history!

Jordan many less championships than Russell and much, much less dominant than Wilt, and less MPVs than Jabbar = who also had the most unstobbable single shot in the history of the game.

I personally put Jordan at 3 just barely ahead of Jabbar, period. Believe that in my lifetime I will see Duncan, and either Wade or James pass him.

Peter D. Rumm, MD
Basketball News Service

[hussker]

My opinion: #23 should be retired in all of Basketball, every level. It may be a stretch, but not only is he the greatest, he saved the league.

The only other entity to ever come closer to saving a sport and major league? BALCO...and they got caught!

[bigzak25]

he didn't save the league...he just carried the torch and made the MARKETING explosion occur.

He carried the torch passed on from Magic and Bird, and Men like Ice and Dr. J before them...and all the rest of the players people are mentioning in this thread...

if you want to talk saviors? you can put DRob and TD in that discussion when it comes to Saving the San Antonio Spurs...:tu

[DieMrBond]

My point is that Jordan didn't go up against talent such as Kobe, TMAC, Carter, and such, if Jordan were in his prime today playing in the league he wouldnt be considered so great, he and Kobe would probably be the same....and I'm still not talking about team-wise im talking the player's alone.....if it were going to be a team battle i think the Spurs and Pistons of today would have killed the bulls of Jordans time

Jordan didnt go up against such talents as Kobe, Tmac, and Carter? Puh-lease!

What about Dominique Wilkins, Larry Bird, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Chris Mullin, Steve Smith, Glen Rice, not to mention most likely being guarded by Scottie Pippen in practice almost every day... - heard of any of those guys? Most of them considered better than at least Tmac and Carter, and some most likely better than Kobe (or at least equal).

Consider the Spurs/Pistons of today, versus Jordans bulls. Take the 96/96 bulls, where jordan was still tearing the league up at an older age...

Ron Harper vs Tony Parker - Pretty close, but id probably give the edge to Harper... mostly because of size and experience.

Michael Jordan vs Manu Ginobili - as great as Manu is, is this really a question?

Scottie Pippen vs Bruce Bowen - okay, bruce would probably guard jordan (and get torn up) and scottie would probably guard manu, but you get the point that at both the 2 and 3 we are outclassed.

Dennis Rodman vs Tim Duncan - okay, our first main advantage. Rodman sure wasnt a slouch on defence though... He would of given TD more fits than Rasheed and Ben Wallace, thats for sure..

Luc Longley vs Rasho/Nazr - pretty much a wash...

Id say, we would still lose to that team. Our only main advantage (TD) would of been slaughtered by Dennis/Scottie Dennis/MJ double teams. Not to mention that the bulls were pretty damn cluth in their own right...

If it was the 99 team, then it is a different story. They are probably the only spurs champ team that would have a chance against the Bulls in my opinion. David was still a force (and a force the bulls couldnt of countered), Tim would of been great, Sean would of done alright, but again the bulls guards would of caused problems for Mario, Avery, et al...

While the Spurs are fantastic, theres a reason that team was so dominant.

[Mixability]

Jordan was just a living highlight reel thats it.

WTF? :shootme
Yeah, Jordan is a living highlight reel :rolleyes ........... a highlight reel that is made up of more than 2/3 of championship footage! :lol

Get back to me when TMac gets within a series of winning a championship! :lol

[Mixability]

Michael Jordan vs Manu Ginobili

Scottie Pippen vs Bruce Bowen - okay, bruce would probably guard jordan (and get torn up) and scottie would probably guard manu, but you get the point that at both the 2 and 3 we are outclassed.

I'd pay high dollar to see those matchups.

I think Bruce would hold his own against MJ for a while, but Jordan has a way of exploiting any defense.

[ambchang]

I think Bruce would hold his own against MJ for a while, but Jordan has a way of exploiting any defense.
Unless it comes down to the Bad Boys.
However, to beat the Bulls, the team has to stop Pippen, not Jordan. He was their point forward, and he directs a LOT of the offense. Jordan, of course, can direct the offense as well, but he usually creates for himself.
On defense, Pippen is probably the best perimeter defender in the history of the league (don't count the part after he went to Houston, he was old then, and Cooper, Dennis Johnson and Bobby Jones could argue that), and he really makes the Bulls gel on defense.
Anyways, if the Spurs were to beat the Bulls, they beat them through Pippen, not Jordan.

[hussker]

he didn't save the league...he just carried the torch and made the MARKETING explosion occur.

He carried the torch passed on from Magic and Bird, and Men like Ice and Dr. J before them...and all the rest of the players people are mentioning in this thread...

if you want to talk saviors? you can put DRob and TD in that discussion when it comes to Saving the San Antonio Spurs...:tu

23 = Michael Jordan
Michael Jordan = Marketing explosion
Marketing explosion = $$
$$ = success in business
success in business = Current NBA
Current NBA = Spurs
Spurs = boring team
boring team = not much $$
not much $$ = find someone who will make $$
find someone who will make $$ = Lebron James
Lebron James = 23

Case settled...
Retire 23...not for LBJ, but for MJ.

[hussker]

AND...He saved the league when the Magic/Bird intrigue was fading/gone. The NBA played that for ALL it was worth before those guys even got into the NBA during the Ind State Mi State NCAA finals. They were grasping at straws then. The certainly lucked out. The NBA was not popular until Bird/Magic, and then MJ had to come to revive. And I am not a 25 yr old living in my recent past, I am old enough to remember the Celtics-Suns game on CBS in the mid 70's and how I snuck to watch it and broke my prized Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl Championship glass because that playoff game was so exciting.

[hussker]

And who saved the Spurs? Jaime Feick and injuries. He sucked so bad that we lost and we got the #1 pick and the TD man. TD did not save the Spurs. Heck, if Tarkanian could not sink them, then saving them was no big task. What saved the Spurs was a very fortunate event of suffering a nasty, ugly 96-97 season.

AND: I will state again, if anyone reading this has always loved POP from day one, you are LYING (unless you are POP or a family member). We wanted to crucify him in 96 for firing Bob Hill. Now, we love him. I was a crucifier and now a lover. That is thanks to teamwork at all levels for our SPURS!

GO SPURS GO!

[TDMVPDPOY]

I reckon bulls team is overrated, look if mj cant gaurd iverson, htf is he goin to gaurd gino? all i can say is the spurs team are impossible to beat.

[Sense]

I reckon bulls team is overrated, look if mj cant gaurd iverson, htf is he goin to gaurd gino? all i can say is the spurs team are impossible to beat.
:idiot

[Emperor]

i think MJ would score at least 30 points a night against the Spurs no matter who you put on him. But i feel that the Spur's team defense would be the main reason for defeating Jordan's Bulls in a finals matchup. It would be a low scoring series considering the Bulls consistent defense also. MJ will be as dominant as he is, no doubt about that, but his team will lose against Timmy's Spurs, no question.

[batman2883]

Jordan didnt go up against such talents as Kobe, Tmac, and Carter? Puh-lease!

What about Dominique Wilkins, Larry Bird, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Chris Mullin, Steve Smith, Glen Rice, not to mention most likely being guarded by Scottie Pippen in practice almost every day... - heard of any of those guys? Most of them considered better than at least Tmac and Carter, and some most likely better than Kobe (or at least equal).

Consider the Spurs/Pistons of today, versus Jordans bulls. Take the 96/96 bulls, where jordan was still tearing the league up at an older age...

Ron Harper vs Tony Parker - Pretty close, but id probably give the edge to Harper... mostly because of size and experience.

Michael Jordan vs Manu Ginobili - as great as Manu is, is this really a question?

Scottie Pippen vs Bruce Bowen - okay, bruce would probably guard jordan (and get torn up) and scottie would probably guard manu, but you get the point that at both the 2 and 3 we are outclassed.

Dennis Rodman vs Tim Duncan - okay, our first main advantage. Rodman sure wasnt a slouch on defence though... He would of given TD more fits than Rasheed and Ben Wallace, thats for sure..

Luc Longley vs Rasho/Nazr - pretty much a wash...

Id say, we would still lose to that team. Our only main advantage (TD) would of been slaughtered by Dennis/Scottie Dennis/MJ double teams. Not to mention that the bulls were pretty damn cluth in their own right...

If it was the 99 team, then it is a different story. They are probably the only spurs champ team that would have a chance against the Bulls in my opinion. David was still a force (and a force the bulls couldnt of countered), Tim would of been great, Sean would of done alright, but again the bulls guards would of caused problems for Mario, Avery, et al...

While the Spurs are fantastic, theres a reason that team was so dominant.
Okay your forgetting one vital thing in this comparison and thats the bench...the Spurs bench would have torn into the BUlls' bench. I'm sorry but Luc Longley was not a better centern than Nazr, the dude was overrated and thats why he sucked so bad once Jordan left.