Here We Go Danny Green Rumor

[fusionjazzman72]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/2/15/11003054/nba-trade-rumor-danny-green-to-atlanta-for-al-horford-seems-ridiculous

[Chinook]

PtR is ridiculous though. So I'm torn.

[Leetonidas]

I like Horford. But Spurs can't trade their best 3D player and get no one who can come close to fill the role in return. Simmons is nowhere near ready.

[elemento]

Do you really wanna be the team giving Horford a 5y/145m-150m contract? I bet the Spurs do not.

I know some fellows will call me a homer, but I wouldn't trade our starting SG locked up in a great contract for this season and the next 3 for an expiring 30 y/o Horford, who's gonna cost 150m to keep next season.

[TheDoctor]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/2/15/11003054/nba-trade-rumor-danny-green-to-atlanta-for-al-horford-seems-ridiculous

Even PtC is saying this is ridiculous and they're dumb as shit.

Next.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Spurs don't make it past GS without Green. Green really has owned Klay defensively if you look at their head to head numbers.

Green has been playing like his old self for the past month.

Horford is great, but he would be redundant of LMA and West. THIS YEAR, the Spurs need Green. I don't think the Spurs are looking to next year right now.

[TrainOfThought5]

Even PtC is saying this is ridiculous and they're dumb as shit.

Next.

I like PTR. But yeah. What this guy said.

[100%duncan]

Man PtR, once a damn good site turned to a joke.

[Dex]

Spurs don't make it past GS without Green. Green really has owned Klay defensively if you look at their head to head numbers.

Green has been playing like his old self for the past month.

Horford is great, but he would be redundant of LMA and West. THIS YEAR, the Spurs need Green. I don't think the Spurs are looking to next year right now.

Pretty much sums it up.

Spurs can pursue Horford in the offseason without giving up major pieces, and only really need to do so if Duncan declines or decides to hang them up. Right now, the Spurs need perimeter D and shooting, not another big man to add to the glut of frontline players.

[RD2191]

Pull the trigger RC. No one is beating the Dubs this season tbh

[TrainOfThought5]

Is Horford really worth the massive Contract he'd get tho? And how would he mesh with LMA?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

PtR :lol

Basically a 'don't trade our role player for an All Star big in his prime' plea. Their reasoning for why it is a ridiculous deal is ridiculous too. It's obvious if the deal goes through ( close to zero chance of course ), then other pieces will be included - Boris, Korver, Thabo, or there would be another trade for a SG replacement so they wouldn't rely on Simmons that much and the roster would be more proportional.

But yeah, this deal isn't happening even on 2k.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Timvp's brothers run that site don't they

[baseline bum]

I hope this doesn't mean Tim has told the front office this is his last year. :depressed

[Chinook]

I hope this doesn't mean Tim has told the front office this is his last year. :depressed

I mean, I hope so too. Because the Spurs are DONE for this year if they make this trade. I could totally see them losing the first round to a team like Dallas (though they'd obviously beat Portland or Utah) if they have to rely on Simmons carrying the two-guard spot. So yeah, Tim retires without a sixth ring. Would suck to know that now.

But this rumor doesn't have legs. PtR picking up gives it no credibility, even though they're broken-clocking it with their disapproval.

[SD126]

Here we go....another fake rumor from a site titled Morning News USA. Not happening.

[spurs10]

Regarding the comments about PTR- Pounding The Rock simply has a bunch of writers taking their personal time to write articles about the Spurs. Anyone here that wants to take the time to write multiple articles after every game and start a website for people to visit for free- they are welcome to do so. I'm personally glad for all the Spurs sites out there. It's nice to have the options. JR Wilco seems like a decent guy.
:flag:

As for Horford, I'm sure the FO has looked at him to take the place of Tim. However losing Danny now, who has done quite well on Klay as someone mentioned, isn't a great idea. GSG!!
:flag:

[Chinook]

PtR doesn't stop sucking because it's free. Shit SAG writes better articles than them, and they're like 95-percent pro-Anderson spin. Hell, even Apa has higher-quality stuff, and I'm half-convinced he's trying to be bad most of the time.

[Proxy]

Regarding the comments about PTR- Pounding The Rock simply has a bunch of writers taking their personal time to write articles about the Spurs. Anyone here that wants to take the time to write multiple articles after every game and start a website for people to visit for free- they are welcome to do so. I'm personally glad for all the Spurs sites out there. It's nice to have the options. JR Wilco seems like a decent guy.
:flag:

As for Horford, I'm sure the FO has looked at him to take the place of Tim. However losing Danny now, who has done quite well on Klay as someone mentioned, isn't a great idea. GSG!!
:flag:

Agreed. Ran into one of the guys who helps with the site at ACL. Cool dude, putting in their time to keep the site going is really cool of them.

and yeah, losing Danny would be giving up one of the variables that gives the team a slimmer of hope at pulling the upset

[Mikeanaro]

:wakeup

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I mean, I hope so too. Because the Spurs are DONE for this year if they make this trade. I could totally see them losing the first round to a team like Dallas (though they'd obviously beat Portland or Utah) if they have to rely on Simmons carrying the two-guard spot. So yeah, Tim retires without a sixth ring. Would suck to know that now.

But this rumor doesn't have legs. PtR picking up gives it no credibility, even though they're broken-clocking it with their disapproval.
There's another option for us to start there.

Hint: he has a big head

[Chinook]

There's another option for us to start there.

Hint: he has a big head

I don't want Magic anywhere near the team.

[Raven]

Spurs don't make it past GS without Green. Green really has owned Klay defensively if you look at their head to head numbers.

Green has been playing like his old self for the past month.

Horford is great, but he would be redundant of LMA and West. THIS YEAR, the Spurs need Green. I don't think the Spurs are looking to next year right now.
green should guard curry, kawhi can't handle him.

[aal04]

If anything we need more perimeter 3 And D players. The times, they are a changing.

[SAGirl]

PtR doesn't stop sucking because it's free. Shit SAG writes better articles than them, and they're like 95-percent pro-Anderson spin. Hell, even Apa has higher-quality stuff, and I'm half-convinced he's trying to be bad most of the time.
:lol
Thanks :toast. As much as everyone makes fun of my essays they like reading them I think.
Kawhitstorm I think makes me go blabbering on purpose!
:flag:

[baseline bum]

This move would be such a slap in the face to both Green and West. Green didn't take less than market value to be on a low level playoff team like the Hawks minus Horford, and West certainly didn't take minimum to be stuck behind Duncan, Aldridge, Horford, and Diaw. No way Pop + RC would fuck players over after they took less to be here.

[DenialTwist]

Wth Splitter having season ending surgery, Hawks won't get rid of Horford. Plus Spurs would never trade Danny.

[BillMc]

Regarding the comments about PTR- Pounding The Rock simply has a bunch of writers taking their personal time to write articles about the Spurs. Anyone here that wants to take the time to write multiple articles after every game and start a website for people to visit for free- they are welcome to do so. I'm personally glad for all the Spurs sites out there. It's nice to have the options. JR Wilco seems like a decent guy.
:flag:

As for Horford, I'm sure the FO has looked at him to take the place of Tim. However losing Danny now, who has done quite well on Klay as someone mentioned, isn't a great idea. GSG!!
:flag:
This regarding both PTR and the suggested trade.

[spurs10]

Agreed. Ran into one of the guys who helps with the site at ACL. Cool dude, putting in their time to keep the site going is really cool of them.

and yeah, losing Danny would be giving up one of the variables that gives the team a slimmer of hope at pulling the upset Yep! :tu

[hater]

Pull the trigger RC. No one is beating the Dubs this season tbh

Pretty much. We werent beating GS withGreen either.

Make a trade

[hater]

This move would be such a slap in the face to both Green and West. Green didn't take less than market value to be on a low level playoff team like the Hawks minus Horford, and West certainly didn't take minimum to be stuck behind Duncan, Aldridge, Horford, and Diaw. No way Pop + RC would fuck players over after they took less to be here.

Fuck the players.all that matters is winning it all

[SD126]

This move would be such a slap in the face to both Green and West. Green didn't take less than market value to be on a low level playoff team like the Hawks minus Horford, and West certainly didn't take minimum to be stuck behind Duncan, Aldridge, Horford, and Diaw. No way Pop + RC would fuck players over after they took less to be here.

Facts

[baseline bum]

Fuck the players.all that matters is winning it all

I wouldn't fuck over guys who took paycuts to come here even if I could land Wardell.

[hater]

I wouldn't fuck over guys who took paycuts to come here even if I could land Wardell.

Nobody put a gun in their heads.

Its their tree and they sitting on it

[raybies]

This move would be such a slap in the face to both Green and West. Green didn't take less than market value to be on a low level playoff team like the Hawks minus Horford, and West certainly didn't take minimum to be stuck behind Duncan, Aldridge, Horford, and Diaw. No way Pop + RC would fuck players over after they took less to be here.
Such good points here. Would look bad on the franchise too if others took less knew they could get traded. It's a business but one of the spurs selling points is the stability and how they try to work situations out.

[spurs10]

This regarding both PTR and the suggested trade. Thanks and I think it's highly unlikely we're the only ones that knows this. :toast
We are going to need to be shooting on all cylinders to pull this off, but I BELIEVE. It's looking to be an epic playoffs! :ihit

[baseline bum]

Nobody put a gun in their heads.

Its their tree and they sitting on it

It's some Phoenix Suns level shit.

[EVAY]

This move would be such a slap in the face to both Green and West. Green didn't take less than market value to be on a low level playoff team like the Hawks minus Horford, and West certainly didn't take minimum to be stuck behind Duncan, Aldridge, Horford, and Diaw. No way Pop + RC would fuck players over after they took less to be here.

This. It would be utterly un-Spursian.

[hater]

It's some Phoenix Suns level shit.

:lol

[Agloco]

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/2/15/11003054/nba-trade-rumor-danny-green-to-atlanta-for-al-horford-seems-ridiculous

This rumor is false.

[dabom]

:lol
Thanks :toast. As much as everyone makes fun of my essays they like reading them I think.
Kawhitstorm I think makes me go blabbering on purpose!
:flag:

I don't read your essays. If you can't describe your thoughts in a short time span, you're just not bright. You can brush it off but a lot of other people don't read them...

[cjw]

The only reason Green is rumored here is because the salaries match, and Atlanta desperately needs a wing.

If the Spurs can pull off something like Diaw/Boban/Kyle/first or prospect (or even two firsts), I'd definitely consider it. But Green's deal is such a bargain with the increasing cap that even as the lesser player, hard to trade him for Horford.

I also don't see the Spurs going over the tax again next year, as a repeater. They'll be smart and only do it this year.

[Beaverfuzz]

DO IT!

[spurs10]

:lol
Thanks :toast. As much as everyone makes fun of my essays they like reading them I think.
Kawhitstorm I think makes me go blabbering on purpose!
:flag: I enjoy your writings as well. Isn't that the point of this or any other Spurs-site? It's people giving their takes-take it or leave it. :bobo

[TheGreatYacht]

Pull the trigger RC. No one is beating the Dubs this season tbh
Let Tony shoot all he wants and we stand a chance tbh

[steeledl]

I'm down but I'm also operating under the opinion that golden state is unbeatable.....

[Arcadian]

We're not in need of another big. We have plenty of those. We need shooters. /shutdown topic

[TrainOfThought5]

PtR doesn't stop sucking because it's free. Shit SAG writes better articles than them, and they're like 95-percent pro-Anderson spin. Hell, even Apa has higher-quality stuff, and I'm half-convinced he's trying to be bad most of the time.

As a pro Anderson supporter, i have to say SAGirls post are incredibly salient and delightful to read during cross country trips, waiting in line at the DMV, or waiting while your car gets worked on.

[TrainOfThought5]

The only reason Green is rumored here is because the salaries match, and Atlanta desperately needs a wing.

If the Spurs can pull off something like Diaw/Boban/Kyle/first or prospect (or even two firsts), I'd definitely consider it. But Green's deal is such a bargain with the increasing cap that even as the lesser player, hard to trade him for Horford.

I also don't see the Spurs going over the tax again next year, as a repeater. They'll be smart and only do it this year.

Thank God youre not running the Spurs.

[SAGirl]

As a pro Anderson supporter, i have to say SAGirls post are incredibly salient and delightful to read during cross country trips, waiting in line at the DMV, or waiting while your car gets worked on.
:lol I am all for making visits to the Dmv less boring! :bobo

[cjw]

Thank God youre not running the Spurs.

I wasn't saying two firsts plus that package (first instead of Kyle or Boban). Or even suggesting the Spurs do it. But that's the type of package it would take to make numbers work.

IF you're reading for Horford, Diaw is the expendable one and not Green. He's also the only guy who can make the numbers work.

If you read earlier, I thought it was crazy to good after Horford because of the looming max dollars.

[BillMc]

Thanks and I think it's highly unlikely we're the only ones that knows this. :toast
We are going to need to be shooting on all cylinders to pull this off, but I BELIEVE. It's looking to be an epic playoffs! :ihit
:lma:claw:bobo:flag::lobt2::pop:

Yep. Going to be epic! :ihit

[BillMc]

:lol I am all for making visits to the Dmv less boring! :bobo
Amen!:toast

[spurraider21]

lol its not happening

[Ice009]

Wth Splitter having season ending surgery, Hawks won't get rid of Horford. Plus Spurs would never trade Danny.

What surgery did he have?

[Russ]

We're not in need of another big. We have plenty of those. We need shooters. /shutdown topic

That's why I think Korver will end up on the Spurs' playoff roster.

[Godbama]

Even PtC is saying this is ridiculous and they're dumb as shit.Next.

[100%duncan]

Pretty much. We werent beating GS withGreen either.

Make a trade

A moment later...



Fuck the players.all that matters is winning it all


You really are a special kind of retard

[spurs10]

:lma:claw:bobo:flag::lobt2::pop:

Yep. Going to be epic! :ihit :madrun:madrun:flag::lobt2:

[G-Dawgg]

3D players are a dime a dozen in the NBA. 6'10 All Star caliber centers that can play inside and out on the other hand, not so much. Horford is a much more valuable peice. Any smart general manager HAS TO jump on this deal if it is offered to them..... It would be much easier to find somebody to replace the things Green does than to find somebody like an Al Horford. This is a no-brainer, I hope it happens.

[sasaint]

What surgery did he have?

Hip surgery.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I'm with the others, definitely down for the trade. Love Green and he wears his heart on his sleeve, but this is too good to pass up. Then pick up Korver

[Chinook]

3D players are a dime a dozen in the NBA.

List 10 guys then. I'm betting after the third one or so, you'll quickly run out of guys who are on Danny's tier in at least one of those categories. And two of the top three are probably on bigger contracts. There's a reason why most contenders are constantly searching for them.

[playbonner15]

Danny Green gets traded. Bonner stays :lol

[sasaint]

List 10 guys then. I'm betting after the third one or so, you'll quickly run out of guys who are on Danny's tier in at least one of those categories. And two of the top three are probably on bigger contracts. There's a reason why most contenders are constantly searching for them.

Yep. There are very few guys who could replace Danny on the Spurs - and none at his money. Since his early season experiment/slump Danny has demonstrated why he is a bargain.

[G-Dawgg]

List 10 guys then. I'm betting after the third one or so, you'll quickly run out of guys who are on Danny's tier in at least one of those categories. And two of the top three are probably on bigger contracts. There's a reason why most contenders are constantly searching for them.

There may not be many 3d players as good as him numbers wise looking at last year's stats, however there ARE plenty of 3d players that would fit right in if they were on this team and system. Danny Green is no all-star and I think you are crazy if you think he's anywhere close to as valuable as Horford who IS an allstar. Not that it matters now that the deadline is over... The Spurs could win without him. He hasn't done jack shit for the team all year and they've still been winning. In my opinion, he was expendable if it meant we could bring in Horford...

[Chinook]

There may not be many 3d players as good as him numbers wise looking at last year's stats, however there ARE plenty of 3d players that would fit right in if they were on this team and system. Danny Green is no all-star and I think you are crazy if you think he's anywhere close to as valuable as Horford who IS an allstar. Not that it matters now that the deadline is over... The Spurs could win without him. He hasn't done jack shit for the team all year and they've still been winning. In my opinion, he was expendable if it meant we could bring in Horford...

Start listing. There really aren't very many at all.

[kaji157]

Start listing. There really aren't very many at all.

I agree that there aren´t many at all right now, but if the Spurs get the opportunity to get Aldridge-Horford-Leonard frontcourt for the future you just have to jump on the deal and expect that replacing what DG gives you will be possible via draft, trade or free agency. It is too good of a deal not too jump to, because it gives you a piece that is very difficult to add, for a piece that, while difficult to fill in, is more teachable.
You can teach defense and shooting, but you cannot teach size.

[G-Dawgg]

^This guy here actually gets the real point

[DarrinS]

Let Tony shoot all he wants and we stand a chance tbh

Forgot blue font?

[palangi]

Start listing. There really aren't very many at all.
Free agents

afflalo
bazemore
crabbe
hairston
lee
mayo


trade

if we were trading Green for Horford then try to get hardaway Jr. With him.


developmentals.

Solomon hill
spencer dinwiddie

both are young athletic guys that play good defense right now. Maybe we look at them like Bowen. Develop their shots. Both are free agents.

[Chinook]

Free agents

afflalo
bazemore
crabbe
hairston
lee
mayo

Not even getting into whether those guys are good enough to even sort of replace Green right now (Mayo, seriously?). Thanks for the list. The issue is that every one of those guys outside of Hairston should make more than Danny next season. So if the Spurs traded Green to get Horford, it's not like those guys are going to be signable. You're going to see players getting Carrollesque contracts left and right this summer.


if we were trading Green for Horford then try to get hardaway Jr. With him.

THJ isn't a three-and-D player. And he's not even playing Atlanta's injury-riddled wing rotation. I was going to say that maybe he could bring the offense that the Spurs also need to find. But I just looked up his stats, and he's a crazy-inefficient chucker. I'd rather roll with Anderson or Simmons over him.




developmentals.

Solomon hill
spencer dinwiddie

both are young athletic guys that play good defense right now. Maybe we look at them like Bowen. Develop their shots. Both are free agents.

Dinwiddie is under contract next season and is a PG (and a non-defen. Hill is only a UFA because the Pacers didn't pick up his option. That's not a definitive death sentence, but it's a pretty bad one, considering Indiana still needs legit wings to put next to George. In any event, these aren't guys you replace Green with. These are guys you bring on and hope you can eventually replace Green with. That's completely different. We all want the team to get a third defensive wing. Those would be guys to bring into camp to test that out, not guys for the starting lineup.

Maybe the Spurs could have swung a Lee side trade as part of a Horford main trade. That could have given the Spurs a body to put in Danny's spot at least. But outside of that scenario, it doesn't make sense. Horford is NOT a franchise player like guys are making him out to be. He's not a dude you sell the farm on.

[apalisoc_9]

God damn, these writers are awful. If you've watched enough spurs ball and warriors ball youd have been able to come up with the logical conclusion that trading Danny Green is retarded. What a useless POS site.

[apalisoc_9]

Get this into your thick casual mainstream vanilla Brains.

YOU NEED TWO ELITE PERIMTER DEFENDERS TO HAVE A DECENT CHANCE AGAINST GOLDEN STATE. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CONTENDING TEAMS HAVE THAT NEEED? ONE. SAN ANTONIO SPURS.

god damn I wish all mainstream and casual fans and writers be extreminated already. What a disgrace to the game of basketball.

[DPG21920]

I can get the average fan that doesn't watch much basketball outside of what's on National TV dismissing Danny. But Spurs fans? After watching him/Spurs for so many games and with what he's already proven?

I will never get it.

[apalisoc_9]

I can get the average fan that doesn't watch much basketball outside of what's on National TV dismissing Danny. But Spurs fans? After watching him/Spurs for so many games and with what he's already proven?

I will never get it.

It isnt even about Danny. Its the fact that you need two elite perimter defenders to counter Golden state elite perimter offense.

It's just a lack of general understanding of how basketball is played. You can watch a 1000 spurs game and still be fat and stupid if you're watching the games the wrong way.

[Chinook]

I agree that there aren´t many at all right now, but if the Spurs get the opportunity to get Aldridge-Horford-Leonard frontcourt for the future you just have to jump on the deal and expect that replacing what DG gives you will be possible via draft, trade or free agency. It is too good of a deal not too jump to, because it gives you a piece that is very difficult to add, for a piece that, while difficult to fill in, is more teachable.
You can teach defense and shooting, but you cannot teach size.


^This guy here actually gets the real point

Horford's averaged 18/9/3/1/1 per 36 (his numbers look worse without adjusting them) over the last four years with a TS% of 56.5. He's played in 236 of the 303 possible regular-season games in that span. That's pretty bad. And considering he's going to be over 30 for the rest of his career, it'll probably at least stay this bad. He's a guy you get and think you have a solid starter next to LMA, not a guy you get and think you have a front court good enough to change the complexion of the league.

In case people are wondering, Green's per-36 numbers in that same space are 13/5/2/1/1 on a TS% of 57.7, and he's played in 284 of the possible 301 games, with a handful of the missed games being pure rest.

David West in that span was 16/8/4/1/1 per 36, TS% of 53.8 and he's played 273/301 games.

David Lee: 18/11/3/1/1 55.6 and 227/302 (picking up DNPs like a boss)

Terrence Jones: 16/9/2/1/2 55.7 173/302

Jared Sullinger: 16/11/3/1/1 49.6 232/302

Pau Gasol: 19/11/4/1/2 53.3 238/300

Mirza Teletovic: 16/7/2/1/1 54.5 218/301

Nene: 17/8/3/1/1 53.7 212/300

I can go on. That's just some of the free-agent bigs this summer. And Horford doesn't stand out. Most of those guys are younger or in the very least significantly cheaper than Al is. The idea that he's some irreplaceable talent is misplaced. He's a great guy to add to a core, but he's not good enough to remove core pieces to insert. And then his injury history means you can't always count on him.

[cjw]

That's just some of the free-agent bigs this summer. And Horford doesn't stand out. Most of those guys are younger or in the very least significantly cheaper than Al is. The idea that he's some irreplaceable talent is misplaced. He's a great guy to add to a core, but he's not good enough to remove core pieces to insert. And then his injury history means you can't always count on him.

I don't see how he gets a max deal with the higher cap at his age / level of production. People here called me crazy for laughing at a Green/Horford swap saying Horford is a better player. He may well be, but you can't disregard future contract / opportunity cost or the risk of him leaving in FA.

[Chinook]

I don't see how he gets a max deal with the higher cap at his age / level of production. People here called me crazy for laughing at a Green/Horford swap saying Horford is a better player. He may well be, but you can't disregard future contract / opportunity cost or the risk of him leaving in FA.

You really can't. I think Horford will get a max, since it's not god-awful like it would be if he signed a one-and-one and got a max in 2017. And I think the Spurs would have given it to him had they traded for him (and he would have accepted). But people are acting like Green's contract can be money-balled, when it's already a great deal. Horford's contract can easily be money-balled, as the free-agent list I post demonstrates.

[dabom]

Forgot blue font?

:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

This year's wing players that are shooting 35%+ from 3 and have a 1.0+ DBPM:

- Andre Iguodala
- Paul George
- Jae Crowder
- Danny Green
- Kawhi Leonard

According to several media members with inside information that spoke on their podcasts(Lowe, Thorpe, Arnovitz, Simmons, etc), the primary theme of this deadline(behind the scenes) was the need for 3&D players..

[palangi]

Not even getting into whether those guys are good enough to even sort of replace Green right now (Mayo, seriously?). Thanks for the list. The issue is that every one of those guys outside of Hairston should make more than Danny next season. So if the Spurs traded Green to get Horford, it's not like those guys are going to be signable. You're going to see players getting Carrollesque contracts left and right this summer.



THJ isn't a three-and-D player. And he's not even playing Atlanta's injury-riddled wing rotation. I was going to say that maybe he could bring the offense that the Spurs also need to find. But I just looked up his stats, and he's a crazy-inefficient chucker. I'd rather roll with Anderson or Simmons over him.



Dinwiddie is under contract next season and is a PG (and a non-defen. Hill is only a UFA because the Pacers didn't pick up his option. That's not a definitive death sentence, but it's a pretty bad one, considering Indiana still needs legit wings to put next to George. In any event, these aren't guys you replace Green with. These are guys you bring on and hope you can eventually replace Green with. That's completely different. We all want the team to get a third defensive wing. Those would be guys to bring into camp to test that out, not guys for the starting lineup.

Maybe the Spurs could have swung a Lee side trade as part of a Horford main trade. That could have given the Spurs a body to put in Danny's spot at least. But outside of that scenario, it doesn't make sense. Horford is NOT a franchise player like guys are making him out to be. He's not a dude you sell the farm on.
Keep in mind Green wasn't Green at first either. He was a D-leaguer at first. You can't say for certain weather they are good or not. Neither can I. But they all have traits to develop into a 3 and D type player. I was just showing there are options.

And yes while dinwiddie is listed as a PG he is also 6'6" and long arms with very good athleticism.

[Chinook]

Keep in mind Green wasn't Green at first either. He was a D-leaguer at first. You can't say for certain weather they are good or not. Neither can I. But they all have traits to develop into a 3 and D type player. I was just showing there are options.

And yes while dinwiddie is listed as a PG he is also 6'6" and long arms with very good athleticism.

Green was a d-leaguer, but he was also an NBA starter when he was 25. He was also a superlative d-leaguer when he was there.

Don't make a strawman out of what I said. I never stated that those guys could never become good defenders. I did state that the team can't just assume they will be and slot them into Green's role. They'd need to be in SA and prove they can get the job done first. I don't consider them options replace Green anymore than I consider Sykes an option to replace Parker.

And Dinwiddie is a good athlete, and I was intrigued by him. But he's not known as a defender, so his size is hardly a reason to put him on the list.

[DPG21920]

This year's wing players that are shooting 35%+ from 3 and have a 1.0+ DBPM:

- Andre Iguodala
- Paul George
- Jae Crowder
- Danny Green
- Kawhi Leonard

According to several media members with inside information that spoke on their podcasts(Lowe, Thorpe, Arnovitz, Simmons, etc), the primary theme of this deadline(behind the scenes) was the need for 3&D players..

Jae Crowder has come out of no where. His impact this year is grading out so well, but I don't believe he's as good as his numbers this year.

Besides the point - but you're correct. There was an arms race this last off season for the guys you mentioned. There's a reason. The truly impactful ones on both ends are not common and really are the missing piece for the majority of teams that are good/playoff teams vs contender/legit contender.

Think if Memphis or LAC or CLE had that player. Many teams emptied their wallets this off season to pry these guys away or to keep them.

[Kawhitstorm]

Horford's averaged 18/9/3/1/1 per 36 (his numbers look worse without adjusting them) over the last four years with a TS% of 56.5. He's played in 236 of the 303 possible regular-season games in that span. That's pretty bad. And considering he's going to be over 30 for the rest of his career, it'll probably at least stay this bad. He's a guy you get and think you have a solid starter next to LMA, not a guy you get and think you have a front court good enough to change the complexion of the league.

In case people are wondering, Green's per-36 numbers in that same space are 13/5/2/1/1 on a TS% of 57.7, and he's played in 284 of the possible 301 games, with a handful of the missed games being pure rest.

David West in that span was 16/8/4/1/1 per 36, TS% of 53.8 and he's played 273/301 games.

David Lee: 18/11/3/1/1 55.6 and 227/302 (picking up DNPs like a boss)

Terrence Jones: 16/9/2/1/2 55.7 173/302

Jared Sullinger: 16/11/3/1/1 49.6 232/302

Pau Gasol: 19/11/4/1/2 53.3 238/300

Mirza Teletovic: 16/7/2/1/1 54.5 218/301

Nene: 17/8/3/1/1 53.7 212/300

I can go on. That's just some of the free-agent bigs this summer. And Horford doesn't stand out. Most of those guys are younger or in the very least significantly cheaper than Al is. The idea that he's some irreplaceable talent is misplaced. He's a great guy to add to a core, but he's not good enough to remove core pieces to insert. And then his injury history means you can't always count on him.

Damn, someone changed their tunes on Horford within a matter of 24 hrs.:lol

[palangi]

Green was a d-leaguer, but he was also an NBA starter when he was 25. He was also a superlative d-leaguer when he was there.

Don't make a strawman out of what I said. I never stated that those guys could never become good defenders. I did state that the team can't just assume they will be and slot them into Green's role. They'd need to be in SA and prove they can get the job done first. I don't consider them options replace Green anymore than I consider Sykes an option to replace Parker.

And Dinwiddie is a good athlete, and I was intrigued by him. But he's not known as a defender, so his size is hardly a reason to put him on the list.
Listen I'm not saying we should trade green or should have. I'm just saying there are guys out there to develop if we did. So don't make strawman comments back at me.

I do love how you have pigeon holed a 23 year old though. I'm sure Detroit is a perfect place to develop the way you should.

[Chinook]

Listen I'm not saying we should trade green or should have. I'm just saying there are guys out there to develop if we did. So don't make strawman comments back at me.

I do love how you have pigeon holed a 23 year old though. I'm sure Detroit is a perfect place to develop the way you should.

I never said you wanted to trade Green. You did say that I " can't say for certain weather they are good or not," as if I was dismissing their potential. I wasn't. My whole point was that them having the potential to grow into role-players doesn't make them candidates to replace a role-player, especially one of the most important ones on the team. A three-and-D prospect is not the same thing as a three-and-D player. Green has been a great three-and-D guy for five years. In fact, his first year starting was probably his best regular season before last year.

As far as you Dinwiddie comment, I never pigeon-holed him. I simply stated that I don't consider him a three-and-D player simply because he's 6-6 and athletic. He wasn't a very good defender in college, which Green was. So he'd have to completely learn how to do it now, and I doubt it ever becomes his strength. But it COULD happen. And the SVG Pistons is a great place to develop. I don't know what that comment was about.

My whole disagreement with you is that I don't think the guys you mentioned really address my request for a list of guys that show Green is really replaceable. They aren't a plan-B to Green in case a trade happens. That doesn't make them bad players or bad prospects. But Danny is extremely proven and plays at a high level. Most of the detractors in this thread overlook that.

[Chinook]

Damn, someone changed their tunes on Horford within a matter of 24 hrs.:lol

I've never once said that I'd trade Green for Al. I am totally in favor of trade Diaw and change for him. But I'd rather have Green and Gasol than Horford and some TBD scrub.

[palangi]

I never said you wanted to trade Green. You did say that I " can't say for certain weather they are good or not," as if I was dismissing their potential. I wasn't. My whole point was that them having the potential to grow into role-players doesn't make them candidates to replace a role-player, especially one of the most important ones on the team. A three-and-D prospect is not the same thing as a three-and-D player. Green has been a great three-and-D guy for five years. In fact, his first year starting was probably his best regular season before last year.

As far as you Dinwiddie comment, I never pigeon-holed him. I simply stated that I don't consider him a three-and-D player simply because he's 6-6 and athletic. He wasn't a very good defender in college, which Green was. So he'd have to completely learn how to do it now, and I doubt it ever becomes his strength. But it COULD happen. And the SVG Pistons is a great place to develop. I don't know what that comment was about.

My whole disagreement with you is that I don't think the guys you mentioned really address my request for a list of guys that show Green is really replaceable. They aren't a plan-B to Green in case a trade happens. That doesn't make them bad players or bad prospects. But Danny is extremely proven and plays at a high level. Most of the detractors in this thread overlook that.
You really get twisted if someone doesn't agree with you.

And i I said I couldn't say for sure either. Way to strawman again and pick and choose.

[G-Dawgg]

Horford's averaged 18/9/3/1/1 per 36 (his numbers look worse without adjusting them) over the last four years with a TS% of 56.5. He's played in 236 of the 303 possible regular-season games in that span. That's pretty bad. And considering he's going to be over 30 for the rest of his career, it'll probably at least stay this bad. He's a guy you get and think you have a solid starter next to LMA, not a guy you get and think you have a front court good enough to change the complexion of the league.

In case people are wondering, Green's per-36 numbers in that same space are 13/5/2/1/1 on a TS% of 57.7, and he's played in 284 of the possible 301 games, with a handful of the missed games being pure rest.

David West in that span was 16/8/4/1/1 per 36, TS% of 53.8 and he's played 273/301 games.

David Lee: 18/11/3/1/1 55.6 and 227/302 (picking up DNPs like a boss)

Terrence Jones: 16/9/2/1/2 55.7 173/302

Jared Sullinger: 16/11/3/1/1 49.6 232/302

Pau Gasol: 19/11/4/1/2 53.3 238/300

Mirza Teletovic: 16/7/2/1/1 54.5 218/301

Nene: 17/8/3/1/1 53.7 212/300

I can go on. That's just some of the free-agent bigs this summer. And Horford doesn't stand out. Most of those guys are younger or in the very least significantly cheaper than Al is. The idea that he's some irreplaceable talent is misplaced. He's a great guy to add to a core, but he's not good enough to remove core pieces to insert. And then his injury history means you can't always count on him.

I realize Green's value to us, however when you have a chance to pick up an All Star for a player who is as limited as Green, you have to jump on that. Especially with the emergence of Jonathon Simmons. HORFORD WAS AN ALLSTAR THIS YEAR, while Danny Green has been playing like a D-League level scrub all year and we've still been winning without him contributing a whole lot. He's expendable... This is a pretty simple no-brainer to me.

We are definitely allowed to have differing opinions and I respect your view.

I just think that next year It'll be harder to find a quality player that plays the center position than quality wing player. Everybody knows bigs are simply a more valuable commodity than guards.

As mentioned earlier it makes no difference now.

[Chinook]

You really get twisted if someone doesn't agree with you.

And i I said I couldn't say for sure either. Way to strawman again and pick and choose.

I don't think you know what it means to strawman. I really don't.


A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

What false argument am I attributing to you? You responded to my post asking for a list of "3d players that would fit right in if they were on this team and system", as G-Dawgg (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19208) said. Because you were the only person to give a list, I thanked you for the reply and went through why I didn't consider any of those guys viable replacements for Green.

You seemed fine with my analysis of the vets, but for some reason, you didn't like me turning down the projects based on them not being established NBA players. So you argued that I shouldn't dismiss their potential. But my argument was never about them not having the ability to become three-and-D players if given time. It was that the Spurs couldn't trade Green and then try to give those players time. They'd have to groom those guys while Green was still on the team.

That should have been it. We could have agreed to disagree or whatever. But instead you've gotten increasingly upset about my "pigeon-holing" Dinwiddie or Hill (though you haven't seemed to care about poor Solomon recently), which IS perpetuating a strawman, since I never argued against the possibility of them developing, only the idea that they aren't currently good enough three-and-D players to make them eligible for the list I asked for, nor do they have the obvious path to get there, as some players like Leonard, Green, RHJ and MKG did.

So what's the problem? I asked someone else a question, and you answered. So I debated the answer and you got upset. You make it seem like I was harassing you about this when you initiated the conversation. If you wanted to agree to disagree, that's fine. But don't fly away from here leaving a trail of butt-hurt like I've done anything other than respond to you in a reasonable manner.

[Chinook]

I realize Green's value to us, however when you have a chance to pick up an All Star for a player who is as limited as Green, you have to jump on that. Especially with the emergence of Jonathon Simmons. HORFORD WAS AN ALLSTAR THIS YEAR, while Danny Green has been playing like a D-League level scrub all year and we've still been winning without him contributing a whole lot. He's expendable... This is a pretty simple no-brainer to me.

First off, I don't care who was an All-Star. There's a really wide gap between being a legit star and being an All-Star. For example, Atlanta had four All-Stars last season, and only Millsap was truly great. Horford is a very good player, but he's not superlative. His numbers are generally not elite, and he's getting the hype of a consistent 20/10 guy. I would pretty comfortably say that Green is a better three-and-D player than Horford is a big.


We are definitely allowed to have differing opinions and I respect your view.

:toast


I just think that next year It'll be harder to find a quality player that plays the center position than quality wing player. Everybody knows bigs are simply a more valuable commodity that guards.

The list I posted to you was of guys who are free agents this off-season. It's not even exhaustive. Those were all guys who have been in Horford's ballpark the last few years, and I would be surprised if ANY of them are within 80 percent of Horford's salary next season. I don't think anyone other than Gasol will be within 60 percent. Combine that with a lack of a list of viable Green replacements, and I strongly disagree that it's harder to find a quality big this off-season than it is to find a quality wing. And that's even more true given the Spurs' gushing pipeline of front-court players and dearth of back-court prospects.

[pgardn]

It isnt even about Danny. Its the fact that you need two elite perimter defenders to counter Golden state elite perimter offense.

It's just a lack of general understanding of how basketball is played. You can watch a 1000 spurs game and still be fat and stupid if you're watching the games the wrong way.

There is no way to have elite perimeter play without rim defending.
Defenders must know they have a backbone behind them, the two go together ya dumb ass.

How effective do you think Green and KL will be if the front court is Boris and West?

We got Asians playing with Manny Pac posting about a game they know well via pickup against ants scurrying about.

[palangi]

I don't think you know what it means to strawman. I really don't.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

What false argument am I attributing to you? You responded to my post asking for a list of "3d players that would fit right in if they were on this team and system", as G-Dawgg (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19208) said. Because you were the only person to give a list, I thanked you for the reply and went through why I didn't consider any of those guys viable replacements for Green.

You seemed fine with my analysis of the vets, but for some reason, you didn't like me turning down the projects based on them not being established NBA players. So you argued that I shouldn't dismiss their potential. But my argument was never about them not having the ability to become three-and-D players if given time. It was that the Spurs couldn't trade Green and then try to give those players time. They'd have to groom those guys while Green was still on the team.

That should have been it. We could have agreed to disagree or whatever. But instead you've gotten increasingly upset about my "pigeon-holing" Dinwiddie or Hill (though you haven't seemed to care about poor Solomon recently), which IS perpetuating a strawman, since I never argued against the possibility of them developing, only the idea that they aren't currently good enough three-and-D players to make them eligible for the list I asked for, nor do they have the obvious path to get there, as some players like Leonard, Green, RHJ and MKG did.

So what's the problem? I asked someone else a question, and you answered. So I debated the answer and you got upset. You make it seem like I was harassing you about this when you initiated the conversation. If you wanted to agree to disagree, that's fine. But don't fly away from here leaving a trail of butt-hurt like I've done anything other than respond to you in a reasonable manner.
You always know you got someone when they deviate from the topic to prove you wrong in something trivial.

[Chinook]

You always know you got someone when they deviate from the topic to prove you wrong in something trivial.

The topic is trading Green for Horford. I didn't want to do it because I didn't think Green was replaceable. Some people disagreed, so I asked for a list of guys who the Spurs could pick up to slide into Green's spot. You posted a list, and I disagreed with the names. Is any of that off-topic?

Really, what the hell is wrong with you? I have been completely reasonable this whole time, and you've just gotten increasingly agitated. Are you just trolling? Or do you actually have an issue with projecting your issues on to other people ("I'm not strawmanning, you are"; "I'm not getting offended, you are"; "I'm not making a Red Herring out of Dinwiddie, you are")?

[palangi]

The topic is trading Green for Horford. I didn't want to do it because I didn't think Green was replaceable. Some people disagreed, so I asked for a list of guys who the Spurs could pick up to slide into Green's spot. You posted a list, and I disagreed with the names. Is any of that off-topic?

Really, what the hell is wrong with you? I have been completely reasonable this whole time, and you've just gotten increasingly agitated. Are you just trolling? Or do you actually have an issue with projecting your issues on to other people ("I'm not strawmanning, you are"; "I'm not getting offended, you are"; "I'm not making a Red Herring out of Dinwiddie, you are")?

Not trolling at all. Just find it funny you change topic. I want down for the trade either. But I don't think green is irreplaceable. There are others out there. You said there wasn't. I think green is an overrated defender who shoots well but can't dribble or drive.

You might think your reasonable but you get pretty snippy when someone doesn't agree with you.

[ducks]

Lol at wanting green gone

[apalisoc_9]

Lol at wanting green gone

Your first good post in spurstalk forum history, congrats.