Rank our backcourt rotation compared to the rest of the league.

[Robz4000]

I don't see how you can really run any post-oriented offense right now when this backcourt can't shoot, penetrate, nor playmake. For once, I can't put anything on Pop. I have little clue what kind of "system" you can run when your guards are a 34 year old who plays like he's 45, a system spot shooter with zero athleticism, handles, and in-between game, a 60 year old, an ultra raw "monkeyballer," and an undersized PG who plays more like an SG.

It's on Pop for putting together this awful backcourt in the first place.

[dabom]

This is why I say let Kawhi be Jordan in the RS. Let him learn how to play the number one option at an elite level. We ain't winning if Kawhi ain't scoring 30 a game.

[midnightpulp]

It's on Pop for putting together this awful backcourt in the first place.

True. The Manu and Parker loyalty contracts killed us in that regard.

[SAGirl]

And those shots will be there. Opposing teams will just start packing the inside to contain LMA/Kawhi/Pau because no one fears D-League, Manure, Simmons, Porker burning them.
Simmons is dleague too, undrafted at that. So you have two dleague players there. I think Simms ha established he is an athlete but he can't shoot.

[SAGirl]

It's on Pop for putting together this awful backcourt in the first place.
It always die come back to Pop and the FO when it comes to roster construction....

[gambit1990]

parker is a problem. and i guess pop has no intention of... tending to that.

[spursistan]

841373761064579073

:lol

[$pursDynasty]

at the beginning of the season they were saying how the Spurs had the best frontcourt in the league (Pau, LMAlpha, and the KingSlayer) and how the Dubs had the best backcourt. At the time it reminded me of the 80's when the Celtics had the dominant frontcourt, while the Lakers (whom I preferred) was more known for it's backcourt. (However any frontcourt with Kareem and Big Game James (Worthy) can't be considered subpar). That being said people never raved about the Celtics back court but they did enough to get the job done. Hopefully the same can be said about the Spurs. Now that I think of it in total MVParker, Manu, Microwave, Dijon, Verde isn't the worst assemblage of back court talent ever. Not ideal but it is not like I would put it in the bottom fifth. Experience counts for something.

[Seventyniner]

841373761064579073

:lol

but but but Parker needs to take a step back :cry

[HarlemHeat37]

^^I haven't looked at the numbers, but I bet the Spurs' starting backcourt averages waaaayyy less shot attempts and usage % than the others, obviously:lol Pretty flawed "analysis", tbh..

I don't know why people can't accept that the build of this roster was strategic, rather than a product of lack of alternatives..it has been purposefully built to be anti-Golden State and frontcourt-heavy..Pau is the 3rd member of the "big 3" on this team, he was the prized off-season acquisition..

[Chinook]

And I would think the team is doing all right in terms of total back-court production.

[spursistan]

^^I haven't looked at the numbers, but I bet the Spurs' starting backcourt averages waaaayyy less shot attempts and usage % than the others, obviously:lol Pretty flawed "analysis", tbh..
They would be attempting more shots if they were actually good..it is that simple..:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

They would be attempting more shots if they were actually good..it is that simple..:lol

They wouldn't have a loaded frontcourt if they had a star in the backcourt, that's how they chose to build the team(there also wasn't a notable backcourt option to sign instead of Pau during the off-season, he was the best option in terms of offensive ability)..

The Warriors have Draymond/Zaza(neither can create their own shot or score efficiently) up front and Houston doesn't have anything in their frontcourt..Cleveland arguably doesn't, either, actually, since Love can barely create his own shot anymore..Spurs just chose to build their team the opposite way, it's what made the most sense, all things considered..

Spurs also have the best bench backcourt in the NBA FWIW, tbh..

[dabom]

They wouldn't have a loaded frontcourt if they had a star in the backcourt, that's how they chose to build the team(there also wasn't a notable backcourt option to sign instead of Pau during the off-season, he was the best option in terms of offensive ability)..

The Warriors don't have a single scorer in their frontcourt(starter or bench) right now(depends if you consider Durant to be a backcourt player or frontcourt) and neither does Houston..Cleveland arguably doesn't, either, actually, since Love can barely create his own shot anymore..Spurs just chose to build their team the opposite way, it's what made the most sense, all things considered..

They also have the best bench backcourt in the NBA, tbh..

Don't the murder the kid. He just started watching basketball. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

It just made the most sense, stylistically..

1- Opposite style of the Warriors, since Spurs were never going to beat them at their own game..loading up in the frontcourt allows them to dominate the boards, pound them inside(as Aldridge did in last season's W), etc

2- There wasn't a single perimeter option during Free Agency that was anywhere near Gasol's level as an offensive talent IIRC(not to mention the Spurs didn't really know what they were getting in Dedmon and Bertans)

3- This style also allows them to utilize Parker/Ginobili, which was always going to be the case..their loyalty contracts are signed, and Pop was never going to bury them in a Bonner role..you can't ignore that all these people are human, they aren't robots with no emotions..they have built relationships and have a place in the community, the Spurs were never going to shit on them while they were still active..

Spurs aren't the Patriots and basketball isn't football..sure, it might be the best move to be ruthless and ignore past contributions(like the Heat did with Wade, which has helped them, this season and probably going forward), but Pop and Buford were never going to do that..

[TD 21]

Though that stat obviously doesn't reflect well, it's also an antiquated evaluation and the Spurs starting guards play significantly less minutes and have a significantly lesser usage rate than most. Sure, if they were better that wouldn't be the case, but I don't think there's quite the gap that's portrayed in that stat.


It might have been a little of column A (strategic), but it was definitely a lot of column B (lack of alternatives) and you unknowingly somewhat made the case why.

In addition . . .

- After years of meticulous planning and some luck, it just so happened that '15 was the year that they were in position to be major players in free agency and there was a major player who was interested in playing for them, who just so happened to be a big . . . they obviously couldn't afford to be picky about position, style, etc.

- In '16, they were left with a gaping hole in the middle and though different, there was something of an archetype available, who also just so happened to want to play for them

- They at least had four rotation guards at their disposal

Going back to the '15 off season, even though the Warriors were coming off of a 67 win season and a (gift wrapped) championship, I don't think that the other contenders were yet at the point where they were building their team specifically with them in mind. It's easy to forget now, but going into that season, most people thought there were 5-6 legit contenders and they were not even regarded as the favorites.

[$pursDynasty]

Wrong thread

[DAF86]

^^I haven't looked at the numbers, but I bet the Spurs' starting backcourt averages waaaayyy less shot attempts and usage % than the others, obviously:lol Pretty flawed "analysis", tbh..

I don't know why people can't accept that the build of this roster was strategic, rather than a product of lack of alternatives..it has been purposefully built to be anti-Golden State and frontcourt-heavy..Pau is the 3rd member of the "big 3" on this team, he was the prized off-season acquisition..

Maybe "design" after already having realized what an awful contract they gave TP back then, tbh. It's obvious the Spurs didn't thought Tony was going to be providing such modest production at this stage of his career when they signed that. Starting from that point, the whole "design" thing should be written with major inverted commas, tbh.

[midnightpulp]

Fuck these losers. From Porker to House to Manure to D-League. All shit.

[dabom]

Fuck these losers. From Porker to House to Manure to D-League. All shit.

:lol

[midnightpulp]

And per the topic: among playoff teams, our backcourt rotation is dead fuckin' last.

[midnightpulp]

:lol

They all suck, including your boy House. We go as far as the frontline takes us. That's it.

[dabom]

They all suck, including your boy House. We go as far as the frontline takes us. That's it.

Pop experimenting all game. I'm not sure if you noticed.

[$pursDynasty]

Tony out injured, as is Dijon a lot recently, Patty's inconsistent and Verde's shot and defense MIA, it doesn't look good add in Manu's turnovers ay yi yi

[SAGirl]

^^I haven't looked at the numbers, but I bet the Spurs' starting backcourt averages waaaayyy less shot attempts and usage % than the others, obviously:lol Pretty flawed "analysis", tbh..

I don't know why people can't accept that the build of this roster was strategic, rather than a product of lack of alternatives..it has been purposefully built to be anti-Golden State and frontcourt-heavy..Pau is the 3rd member of the "big 3" on this team, he was the prized off-season acquisition..
We shall see the results of that idea. At one point it becomes superfluous bc you can't play all your best players at the same time when most of them are forwards or centers. It's a point of strength but I think it's become more unbalanced than they thought bc some guys fell off a cliff, are injury prone and others way too limited to make up for what the others lost.I feel like these losses have hurt more than anything bc the team isn't playing that well.

[SAGirl]

I don't see how you can really run any post-oriented offense right now when this backcourt can't shoot, penetrate, nor playmake. For once, I can't put anything on Pop. I have little clue what kind of "system" you can run when your guards are a 34 year old who plays like he's 45, a system spot shooter with zero athleticism, handles, and in-between game, a 60 year old, an ultra raw "monkeyballer," and an undersized PG who plays more like an SG.
Well, exactly this description by you was on display tonight except Simmons made some uncharacteristic shots that he will only make once every 20 games if that. Still they lost bc all of Tony, Mills, Manu and Danny were off I think?

[bklynspursfan]

^^I haven't looked at the numbers, but I bet the Spurs' starting backcourt averages waaaayyy less shot attempts and usage % than the others, obviously:lol Pretty flawed "analysis", tbh..

I don't know why people can't accept that the build of this roster was strategic, rather than a product of lack of alternatives..it has been purposefully built to be anti-Golden State and frontcourt-heavy..Pau is the 3rd member of the "big 3" on this team, he was the prized off-season acquisition..

+1

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs best shot will be to exclude Mills and Tony from the lineup when it matters in the last 7 minutes of each half.

Those two are too easily exploitable on defense and are too easy to defend for good playoff teams with preparation. They are net negatives on both ends.

Id go with 3 wings, Kawhi running point on O.

I.E. Dedmon, Aldridge, Danny, Manu or Simmons and Kawhi. Give me more stops on the defensive end amd trust Kawhi and the guys to put up enough buckets.

Im about done with Mills and Parker.

[Hoops Czar]

^^I haven't looked at the numbers, but I bet the Spurs' starting backcourt averages waaaayyy less shot attempts and usage % than the others, obviously:lol Pretty flawed "analysis", tbh..

I don't know why people can't accept that the build of this roster was strategic, rather than a product of lack of alternatives..it has been purposefully built to be anti-Golden State and frontcourt-heavy..Pau is the 3rd member of the "big 3" on this team, he was the prized off-season acquisition..

That's failed logic right there. Basketball is a game of match ups and it's impossible to know who you're going to be matched up against in the postseason, in the offseason. It's also pretty safe to assume that the Warriors, even with the lack of depth, would be heavy favorites to land the #1 seed and make it back to the WCF's for the third year in a row. The Spurs would therefore have to win two playoff series before getting the opportunity to face the Warriors. The Spurs had been favorites to face the Warriors in 2015 & 16 too and in both years, the Spurs failed to make the WCF's.

[ElNono]

Can the Spurs still win 60 games?

[TheGreatYacht]

The PG rotation once again, like it has all season, was steady tonight.

What the real concern no one is talking about is the SG position. Highest paid position (24,000,000M/yr) yet it's easily the worst on the team. 2/10 tonight and both were benched in crunch time for TP/Patty.

[GSH]

That's failed logic right there. Basketball is a game of match ups and it's impossible to know who you're going to be matched up against in the postseason, in the offseason. It's also pretty safe to assume that the Warriors, even with the lack of depth, would be heavy favorites to land the #1 seed and make it back to the WCF's for the third year in a row. The Spurs would therefore have to win two playoff series before getting the opportunity to face the Warriors. The Spurs had been favorites to face the Warriors in 2015 & 16 too and in both years, the Spurs failed to make the WCF's.


I'm pretty sure that the thought was the road to the Finals eventually goes through Golden State, eventually. If they can't win in the first and second round, they aren't nearly good enough anyway. But I don't think there's any doubt that they were thinking that in order to ring, they have to be built to take on GSW.

[Hoops Czar]

I'm pretty sure that the thought was the road to the Finals eventually goes through Golden State, eventually. If they can't win in the first and second round, they aren't nearly good enough anyway. But I don't think there's any doubt that they were thinking that in order to ring, they have to be built to take on GSW.

Who's thought, Harlem's or the Spurs? There was nothing strategic about the way this roster was built. Pau replaced Duncan and had he not, I believe Duncan would have been back for another year. Dedmon and Lee were bargain buster free agent signees. If the Spurs had money to spend, they could have done a lot better but, they didn't have the resources available primarily due to the rise in the salary cap and contracts already on board. The problem with Dedmon and Lee is that no matter how the Spurs intend to use them, the defense (Lee) or offense (Dedmon) is going to suffer because neither of them are two way players. The Warriors may not have a ton of depth but they have balance. The starters are younger so they can log heavier minutes so it's not a huge issue in the postseason. The overall defense between the two teams is pretty negligible as well.

For the upteenth year in a row, the Spurs did nothing to address the guard situation. They don't have a single guard who can penetrate and breakdown the defense. We've seen this dog and pony show the last two years in the postseason where being unable to space the floor correctly meant force feeding the ball to Kawhi or LMA in the post with the shot clock running down and the end result was a lot of contested, off balance, mid range two's. The Spurs don't have a player that can guard the likes of Curry so no advantage their either. This Spurs team is still tremendously dependent on a "turn back the clock" Tony Parker because he's the only guard on the roster that can actually run the offense efficiently for long stretches. If that was the Spurs strategy to defeating the Warriors in the offseason, it was a poor one. :lol

If anything, this team was strategically built for 2018 when Tony's contract comes off the books.

[GSH]

For the upteenth year in a row, the Spurs did nothing to address the guard situation. They don't have a single guard who can penetrate and breakdown the defense. We've seen this dog and pony show the last two years in the postseason where being unable to space the floor correctly meant force feeding the ball to Kawhi or LMA in the post with the shot clock running down and the end result was a lot of contested, off balance, mid range two's. The Spurs don't have a player that can guard the likes of Curry so no advantage their either. This Spurs team is still tremendously dependent on a "turn back the clock" Tony Parker because he's the only guard on the roster that can actually run the offense efficiently for long stretches. If that was the Spurs strategy to defeating the Warriors in the offseason, it was a poor one. :lol

By the end of last season, the general consensus on beating the Warriors was to go big... agreed? I mean, I can go pull threads and articles, but that's pretty much all anyone talked about.

It sure looked to me like the FO's priority in the offseason was on size. You even say they didn't pay enough attention to the guard situation. And they didn't just throw darts. Pau may have been the best they could get (and he was). But they didn't settle for less at the C, so that they could spend more on a guard, did they?

Once again, you can't have it both ways. With limited cap space, they went after the thing they thought they needed most. You know damn good and well that they couldn't afford to bolster both. You may disagree with it, or with the logic, but that's clearly what they did. I don't disagree with where they are with guards, but you shot your own argument n the foot. They chose bigs. Even to the point of harboring Joel Anthony.

[ElNono]

Spurs' guards are fine, tbh (waves hand)

[Hoops Czar]

By the end of last season, the general consensus on beating the Warriors was to go big... agreed? I mean, I can go pull threads and articles, but that's pretty much all anyone talked about.

It sure looked to me like the FO's priority in the offseason was on size. You even say they didn't pay enough attention to the guard situation. And they didn't just throw darts. Pau may have been the best they could get (and he was). But they didn't settle for less at the C, so that they could spend more on a guard, did they?

Once again, you can't have it both ways. With limited cap space, they went after the thing they thought they needed most. You know damn good and well that they couldn't afford to bolster both. You may disagree with it, or with the logic, but that's clearly what they did. I don't disagree with where they are with guards, but you shot your own argument n the foot. They chose bigs. Even to the point of harboring Joel Anthony.

That was the consensus during the season too and it was wrong. Duncan was a big and he was practically clowned by Bogut in the paint. Side show Boban was a big but wasn't caliber enough to even see the court. Oh, you must have meant QUALITY bigs. You don't make two straight NBA finals appearances by being a one trick pony. If it was that easy to add a little size to a team's roster in order to thwart the Warrior's success in a playoff series, everybody would do it. So you score a few more baskets in the paint and lose by 15 instead of 25. The Grizz (2015) and Thunder (2016) both had size yet, they still lost.

The Spurs priority in the offseason was to add depth. They need a full roster or close to it so Pop can rest it.:lol They went after size in the offseason, not so they could exploit the Warriors weaknesses, but so that they could have more versatility against the league's elite, like the Thunder and Clippers who had a size advantage. The Spurs are all about shoring up their own weaknesses rather than trying to play wrecking ball with one of their rivals. The Spurs organization is far less obsessed with the Warriors than the fans and media alike.

[GSH]

That was the consensus during the season too and it was wrong. Duncan was a big and he was practically clowned by Bogut in the paint. Side show Boban was a big but wasn't caliber enough to even see the court. Oh, you must have meant QUALITY bigs. You don't make two straight NBA finals appearances by being a one trick pony. If it was that easy to add a little size to a team's roster in order to thwart the Warrior's success in a playoff series, everybody would do it. So you score a few more baskets in the paint and lose by 15 instead of 25. The Grizz (2015) and Thunder (2016) both had size yet, they still lost.

The Spurs priority in the offseason was to add depth. They need a full roster or close to it so Pop can rest it.:lol They went after size in the offseason, not so they could exploit the Warriors weaknesses, but so that they could have more versatility against the league's elite, like the Thunder and Clippers who had a size advantage. The Spurs are all about shoring up their own weaknesses rather than trying to play wrecking ball with one of their rivals. The Spurs organization is far less obsessed with the Warriors than the fans and media alike.


Meh. Difference of opinion.

But... the Tim Duncan that finished the season wasn't the same one that started the season. His scoring was down from the beginning, for whatever reason, but he was still a beast on D. He got injured in December, and he never was the same. The Spurs didn't play GSW last season until January, and Duncan wasn't even in that game. They didn't play again until March, and Duncan only played 8 minutes off the bench. And by then, it was clear that Duncan's knees were both shot. So, no, Tim Duncan didn't get clowned by GSW. That guy who finished the season wasn't Tim Duncan.

[gambit1990]

parker is a much bigger problem than green.

[Darius Bieber]

I keep telling you guys that it's dead-last.

[spursistan]

850904047913664512

There is no way you are contending with this shitty ass guard play..No fuckin Way.

[apalisoc_9]

850904047913664512

There is no way you are contending with this shitty ass guard play..No fuckin Way.

But kawhi has help..its the system :cry

[SpursforSix]

I keep telling you guys that it's dead-last.

Who is even debating this? It's one of the worst in the league and certainly the worst in the Western Cinference playoffs.

[SpursforSix]

I'd rather have the awful Parsons contract right now (short term) because at least you don't have to worry about putting him on the court.

[kaji157]

Probably one of the worst.
Some players under performed for their respective points in their careers, and the other is just too old.
Manu is most likely retiring, and Mills played for his spot next year and it has been shown that he is just not enough as a starting PG, Tony has probably aged the worst way possible and Green has not improved in any area and actually under performed in some.

Simmons and Forbes are nothing.

[Arcadian]

I've never seen such an excellent frontcourt coupled with such a terrible backcourt.

I mean...fuck. What's worse than a shooting guard who can't shoot?

Oh, that's right - two shooting guards who can't shoot.

[RD2191]

I've never seen such an excellent frontcourt coupled with such a terrible backcourt.

I mean...fuck. What's the only thing worse than a shooting guard who can't shoot?

Two shooting guards who can't shoot.

:lol

[midnightpulp]

I've never seen such an excellent frontcourt coupled with such a terrible backcourt.

I mean...fuck. What's worse than a shooting guard who can't shoot?

Oh, that's right - two shooting guards who can't shoot.

And what's scary is that Parker probably blew his load this game. Next game he's sure to put up one of those 2-8, 4 point turds. Don't know who is gonna step up and help out Kawhi on the perimeter.

[apalisoc_9]

And what's scary is that Parker probably blew his load this game. Next game he's sure to put up one of those 2-8, 4 point turds. Don't know who is gonna step up and help out Kawhi on the perimeter.

Murray.

Np way he's worse than Ginobili and Green if Green is sucking up.

[midnightpulp]

Murray.

Np way he's worse than Ginobili and Green if Green is sucking up.

Yeah. I've been wanting to see him get some run.

[apalisoc_9]

Yeah. I've been wanting to see him get some run.

Sadly, might not happen at all.

Tony, at least in this series has done enough to warrant reapect.

But It's painful watching this offense.

Right now only Murray can provide what Parker and leonard can do.

We need more guys who can create openings for role players. Manu is supposed to be the third guy behind Leonard and parker but he sucks.

[timtonymanu]

If they even get there, it's gonna be a battle against Harden/Gordon/Beverley. No chance against the Dubs for sure.