Pay Patty in the Off-season

[poeticism707]

He's worth 10m a year

EASY, in today's market.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bayless and Dellevadova got 9 or 10 million/year IIRC..Patty's getting much more than that IMO:lol

[apalisoc_9]

Mills is probably getting 50/55 in 4...

Also, dude should win sixth man of the year.

[MaNu4Tres]

For as great as he's been, it will be a mistake buying at his apex and paying him 14-15 mil per. If Spurs can get him on a home town discount, great, but I don't see it.

He's getting paid and will get offered a starting job in Philly, Dallas, or Chicago ( Bulls will let Rondo walk).

[Kawhitstorm]

Bayless and Dellevadova got 9 or 10 million/year IIRC..Patty's getting much more than that IMO:lol

If he keeps it up then he's most likely getting the Jamal "6th Man" Crawford deal of 12mill/per.

[HarlemHeat37]

If he keeps it up then he's most likely getting the Jamal "6th Man" Crawford deal of 12mill/per.

Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a starting job and serious $, tbh..Sacramento, Dallas, Chicago, etc will need a starter at the 1..

[Kawhitstorm]

Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a starting job and serious $, tbh..Sacramento, Dallas, Chicago, etc will need a starter at the 1..

If the Kings somehow make it in as the 8th seed then they are going to sign Patty as the missing piece.:lol

[poeticism707]

Mills is probably getting 50/55 in 4...

Also, dude should win sixth man of the year.

He's worth 55m in 4,

if that's what it takes...

[HarlemHeat37]

If the Kings somehow make it in as the 8th seed then they are going to sign Patty as the missing piece.:lol

He would be perfect with the Bulls next to Butler and Wade IMO..they desperately need shooting, too..

[poeticism707]

He would be perfect with the Bulls next to Butler and Wade IMO..they desperately need shooting, too..

I hope not.

The last thing the Spurs need is the Bulls

poaching our fucking veteran talent.

We ain't that DEEP.

[Kawhitstorm]

He would be perfect with the Bulls next to Butler and Wade IMO..they desperately need shooting, too..

The Bulls usually love midget point-guards so they might pay him.

[apalisoc_9]

Only worry about Mills is that with his "energy" playstyle..A 4 year contract might get you two years of great mills and at 32-33, an average player getting paid 14per

[JohnnyMax]

Patty Mills’ market value works out to be roughly $18.6 million per season.

http://sportsagentblog.com/2016/12/12/what-could-patty-mills-earn-on-his-next-contract/

[poeticism707]

Only worry about Mills is that with his "energy" playstyle..A 4 year contract might get you two years of great mills and at 32-33, an average player getting paid 14per

True.

But still worth it for the Spurs.

[MaNu4Tres]

True.

But still worth it for the Spurs.

Would rather use that money towards a strong offer for Jrue Holiday.

[Robz4000]

Spurs aren't going to be able to afford Mills unless he takes a discount. Thanks Porker...

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurs aren't going to be able to afford Mills unless he takes a discount. Thanks Porker...

Of course they will be able to afford keeping him. Whether they'd think paying him $50-55/4 would be worth it is another matter.

[Robz4000]

Of course they will be able to afford keeping him. Whether they'd think paying him $50-55/4 would be worth it is another matter.

He's going to get $16mil/season minimum in today's market. Spurs would have to let Simmons/Dedmon/Lee bounce to keep him. Not sure they'd be willing to lose three rotation players for Mills.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He's going to get $16mil/season minimum in today's market. Spurs would have to let Simmons/Dedmon/Lee bounce to keep him. Not sure they'd be willing to lose three rotation players for Mills.

Nope. They have bird rights and Patty's cap hold is small.

[Robz4000]

Nope. They have bird rights and Patty's cap hold is small.

Derp, forgot about bird rights.

[SAGirl]

I have strongly been inclined to think Spurs pay to keep him. Manu is retiring and Tony is done. Murray will require seasoning and development...

Only his statement about wanting to be a starter in the league and offers of commensurate pay to a starting job from another team will pry him away, but I suspect he will get such offers... so it's very uncertain.

[BillMc]

The problem with Patty is the market demands he be paid well (and more power to him) but if you sign him for a lot of cash, you still need to find another playmaking point guard or pray Tony hangs on or Murray develops very quickly.

I'd hate to lose Patty. I'd also hate to eat up huge amounts of cap on him. It's a conundrum for PATFO.

I suspect, though, he is gone.

[Clipper Nation]

Porker's running him offPERIOD

[sasaint]

The problem with Patty is the market demands he be paid well (and more power to him) but if you sign him for a lot of cash, you still need to find another playmaking point guard or pray Tony hangs on or Murray develops very quickly.

I'd hate to lose Patty. I'd also hate to eat up huge amounts of cap on him. It's a conundrum for PATFO.

I suspect, though, he is gone.

Perfect analysis - unfortunately. :depressed Dijon, however, did provide a very small ray of hope last night against the Blazers. He wasn't a TO machine. He even hit a 3. He was much better than I expected, even though he did not show much propensity for creating for others. So, I am not convinced he is really suited to be a PG. At this early stage Dijon seems like more of a combo guard to me.

[FkLA]

Man, is there anybody ST thinks deserves to get paid? Always wanting 'hometown discounts'. As if MVPaddy hasn't been ridiculously underpaid the past three years. I even remember people talking shit about Kawhi getting the max extension. :lol

[SAGirl]

Man, is there anybody ST thinks deserves to get paid? Always wanting 'hometown discounts'. As if MVPaddy hasn't been ridiculously underpaid the past three years. I even remember people talking shit about Kawhi getting the max extension. :lol

Yes, I think he deserves to get paid.. and I have stated in other threads also that I think he's priority for the Spurs and they will pay him.

The dilemma with Dijon's inexperience and Tony looking TOSB is still going to be there whether Patty is in the team or not and without Patty they will be worse off. And it's not like the Spurs will land an "ace" FA in the offseason. Keeping Patty may be the best move they can make realistically.

I'd like to keep Dedmon too.

I am willing to let Simmons go. It's unknown what the market is for him and Dijon is looking like a similar player in terms of being a slasher, etc and is a lot, lot, lot younger with more upside just due to his length and youth. I would not let Mills go to keep Dedmon and Simmons, that is just me I guess. I'd want Dedmon and not Pau though... who can guess what RC and Pop do?

[poeticism707]

Yes, I think he deserves to get paid.. and I have stated in other threads also that I think he's priority for the Spurs and they will pay him.

The dilemma with Dijon's inexperience and Tony looking TOSB is still going to be there whether Patty is in the team or not and without Patty they will be worse off. And it's not like the Spurs will land an "ace" FA in the offseason. Keeping Patty may be the best move they can make realistically.

I'd like to keep Dedmon too.

I am willing to let Simmons go. It's unknown what the market is for him and Dijon is looking like a similar player in terms of being a slasher, etc and is a lot, lot, lot younger with more upside just due to his length and youth. I would not let Mills go to keep Dedmon and Simmons, that is just me I guess. I'd want Dedmon and not Pau though... who can guess what RC and Pop do?

This.

Spurs ain't going to land a FA SG that can catch fire any game,

for what they going to pay Patty.

Agree with the order of signing.


Patty first.

Then Dedmon.

Gasol is last.

[bklynspursfan]

We got lucky Patty had a shoulder injury last contract, that was a discount in it of itself.

I hope we pay him. He's a great teammate in addition to his obvious on court contributions

[sasaint]

This.

Spurs ain't going to land a FA SG that can catch fire any game,

for what they going to pay Patty.

Agree with the order of signing.


Patty first.

Then Dedmon.

Gasol is last.

The Spurs don't need to sign Gasol. That decision is entirely his. He has a player option. I would love to be able to keep both Patty and Deadman, though. But I don't think the Spurs will be able to.

[sasaint]

We got lucky Patty had a shoulder injury last contract, that was a discount in it of itself.

I hope we pay him. He's a great teammate in addition to his obvious on court contributions

Moreover, on a team that is likely to lose +/- 40 years of experience in 3 seasons, Patty would be one of the senior statesmen and a primary conduit of "corporate knowledge. Frankly, after Manu and Tony, Patty is the team leader.

[gambit1990]

i see patty staying.

wouldn't blame him if he really wants to start though. knicks should go after him.

[baseline bum]

Man, is there anybody ST thinks deserves to get paid? Always wanting 'hometown discounts'. As if MVPaddy hasn't been ridiculously underpaid the past three years. I even remember people talking shit about Kawhi getting the max extension. :lol

LOL no shit. MVPatty should be able to pull 4 years, $60 million in this market. Maybe more. He already had injury screw him out of market value in the summer of 2014, so no way this summer he isn't going for the kind of money he's showing he's worth with his stellar play this season.

[TXstbobcat]

To quote teddy KGB

"pay him, pay that man his money".

[Ice009]

We got lucky Patty had a shoulder injury last contract, that was a discount in it of itself.

I hope we pay him. He's a great teammate in addition to his obvious on court contributions

It's great to see that his shooting is back. It took him a long time to regain form. It wasn't even certain that he'd be the same. Good for him that he's been able to get it back.

I also recall reading in the off-season that he was not happy with how he played against OKC and it left a bad taste in his mouth. He worked hard during the off-season to come back a better player.

[poeticism707]

LOL no shit. MVPatty should be able to pull 4 years, $60 million in this market. Maybe more. He already had injury screw him out of market value in the summer of 2014, so no way this summer he isn't going for the kind of money he's showing he's worth with his stellar play this season.

Worth it.

[Kawhitstorm]

The Spurs don't need to sign Gasol. That decision is entirely his. He has a player option. I would love to be able to keep both Patty and Deadman, though. But I don't think the Spurs will be able to.

PATFO can dump Pau's contract on the Wolves who were trying to sign him this summer. They have the cap space to absorb his contract ala Tiago/Hawks & Boris/Jazz.

[sasaint]

PATFO can dump Pau's contract on the Wolves who were trying to sign him this summer. They have the cap space to absorb his contract ala Tiago/Hawks & Boris/Jazz.

True, I was just pointing out that Pau was in a different category from Patty and Deadman. We don't need to recruit and sign Pau. He can take or leave what's essentially already on the table. If Pau were to opt in, then PATFO could, indeed, move his contract. But would they? I am not certain they would.

[Kawhitstorm]

True, I was just pointing out that Pau was in a different category from Patty and Deadman. We don't need to recruit and sign Pau. He can take or leave what's essentially already on the table. If Pau were to opt in, then PATFO could, indeed, move his contract. But would they? I am not certain they would.

They moved Boris so I don't see why they wouldn't move Pau if he opted in greedily against the PATFO wishes. Maybe, he could have a wink-wink deal w/ the Wolves where he opts-out & gets a 2-year 24 mill contract.

[sasaint]

They moved Boris so I don't see why they wouldn't move Pau if he opted in greedily against the PATFO wishes. Maybe, he could have a wink-wink deal w/ the Wolves where he opts-out & gets a 2-year 24 mill contract.

:tu That would be the best possible scenario for the Spurs - no cap holds, no nothing - just cap space. :toast

[cjw]

Patty is going to get paid, but silly money isn't floating around this summer like it was last summer. No huge cap spike plus teams will need to put aside more money for rookie deals, minimum salary deals and exceptions will be more expensive too.

Had Dedmon and Patty been FAs heading into this past summer, the numbers may have looked even sillier. Teams simply don't have the same cap space to spread among all of the FA to be. Remains to be seen what it means for this year. It may have no impact on Patty/Dedmon but only on lesser players.

[TD 21]

I maintain that he probably re-signs and does so for less than many think (4/$40M?).

I'd be surprised if anyone views him as a starter. He's too limited a play maker and too small to be a 3 and D type and Bayless and Dellavedova are bad examples . . .

Bayless: 76ers had an insane amount of cap space and a terrible rep from being historically bad and not signing legit NBA players for 3 years.

Dellavedova: As a 3 and D type, he's an ideal compliment to a point forward such as Antetokounmpo.


Unfortunately, Dedmon is probably gone due to his lack of bird rights. Simmons is probably slightly more likely to be gone, as any somewhat expensive offer sheet probably pries him loose. Partially because of the presence of Murray, but also because the combination of him and Anderson isn't going to cut it as 3rd and 4th wings.

[dabom]

4/40 is a slap to the face tbh.

[cd98]

I love Patty but he, like Parker, is a stop gap until we solve the next PG riddle.

[TD 21]

I'm implying he'll take a hometown discount (though I also think the league doesn't value his ilk quite as highly as a lot of you think). There's too many parallels between him and Green, both from the player and team perspective, to ignore.

[Ice009]

What would the Spurs have to do to keep Deadmon?

I'd let Patty go if the price is too high. I'm thinking 10 million per season, maybe a bit more, but anything over 12+, I'd let him go.

[dabom]

I'd drop parker next year for Patty and Dedmon. Ask him a choice of teams to go to.

His production to price is just too much for a 3rd string pg.

[024]

It would be hard to watch if the Spurs had to let Patty and Dedmon go (who both can command $12-15 million) because Gasol and Parker are sitting on $31 million in cap space.

Once Patty and Manu leave, the entire bench is going to shit.

[SAGirl]

It would be hard to watch if the Spurs had to let Patty and Dedmon go (who both can command $12-15 million) because Gasol and Parker are sitting on $31 million in cap space.

Once Patty and Manu leave, the entire bench is going to shit.

I suspect the time for going after FA was the past two off-season. They even has to shed the team's depth to add Lamarcus and Gasol. Luckily the guys they shed were done like Tiago (injuries) Diaw (bobcat Diaw regression) Cojo (missed but Patty has been healthy and Cojo was going to be too good for a 3rd string guard anyway, he's better off in Toronto for himself), Marco (Spurs missed him but he got paid as well).

They can't keep going at this rate with shedding roleplayers who are producing for them. They will attempt to keep their guys. They may just be unable to retain them all and will have to prioritize.

[gambit1990]

patty is averaging more points than tony on less shots and is shooting the ball better. he should be playing more minutes than tp and his FGA should be higher than tony's too.

[sasaint]

It would be hard to watch if the Spurs had to let Patty and Dedmon go (who both can command $12-15 million) because Gasol and Parker are sitting on $31 million in cap space.

Once Patty and Manu leave, the entire bench is going to shit.

Just one of several reasons that I believe the Spurs cannot afford to let Patty go. Plus, especially in the coming absence of Tony and Manu, Patty will be the vocal leader and primary conduit of Spurs culture.

[DMC]

I like watching Patty and the energy he brings, much like Manu. The Spurs 2nd unit is really one of the only reasons to watch the team outside of Kawhi's defense. LMA is boring, good but boring and Pau is like the poster child for boring. When that dull starting unit leaves and that up tempo second unit hits the floor, then it's fun to watch, so I don't care if they pay Patty 15m per, it's not coming out of my pocket.

[DMC]

It would be hard to watch if the Spurs had to let Patty and Dedmon go (who both can command $12-15 million) because Gasol and Parker are sitting on $31 million in cap space.

Once Patty and Manu leave, the entire bench is going to shit.

It's a common occurrence in the NBA that less effective vets make more than the impact players who are in their primes, because of what they did in the past to justify the money. Tony did a lot for the Spurs for many years and Pop isn't going to shelve him just because he slowed and became less effective. See Bonner as an example of Pop's dogged loyalty to system guys.

[sasaint]

I maintain that he probably re-signs and does so for less than many think (4/$40M?).

I'd be surprised if anyone views him as a starter. He's too limited a play maker and too small to be a 3 and D type and Bayless and Dellavedova are bad examples . . .

Bayless: 76ers had an insane amount of cap space and a terrible rep from being historically bad and not signing legit NBA players for 3 years.

Dellavedova: As a 3 and D type, he's an ideal compliment to a point forward such as Antetokounmpo.


Unfortunately, Dedmon is probably gone due to his lack of bird rights. Simmons is probably slightly more likely to be gone, as any somewhat expensive offer sheet probably pries him loose. Partially because of the presence of Murray, but also because the combination of him and Anderson isn't going to cut it as 3rd and 4th wings.

I believe the Spurs will find a way to keep Patty. It seems to me that the team has virtually groomed Patty to be the vocal leader of the team. (Otherwise, who will be?) I also believe that Patty likes it here. I think he might be willing to give a little bit of a discount if the Spurs will give a long-term deal. So much depends on how much emphasis he places on starting AND on how quickly Dijon develops.

As for Deadman, the situation with the "bigs" is so fluid, who can tell whether the team will be able to keep him. Will LMA be traded? Will Pau and Lee opt in? My crystal ball just isn't clear enough to see who the "bigs" will be next season.

[DPG21920]

patty is averaging more points than tony on less shots and is shooting the ball better. he should be playing more minutes than tp and his FGA should be higher than tony's too.

How is his running of an actual offense vs starting caliber defenses and how is his defense against starting caliber PG's?

[DPG21920]

I love Patty and I'm fine with him being paid, but he's not a starting caliber PG. We've seen in the playoffs when he's been asked to actually run an offense with high pressure he can't even handle the ball against NBA level defense. He gets bullied and pressed because no one even respects his handle.

He's made it pretty clear he wants to start so SA would have to come pretty damn close to any offer he gets because he's not going to start here most likely.

[Slippy]

Can't see patty leaving the spurs or the team giving up on him. He's one the best instant scorers/shooters out there who fits in perfectly with what the Spurs are trying to do.

He should get paid.

[ducks]

Manu is getting 14 patty will want more
Even if Manu retires spurs need to pay Demond and let patty walk
They will have to get a guy that can make threes though

[ducks]

Spurs will not promise patty will start they might say he can earn it and keep it

[mfanatic]

Patty will get paid if we can't get CP3. Ideally we would go into next year with CP3/Parker/Murray

[Yuixafun]

Patty will get paid if we can't get CP3. Ideally we would go into next year with CP3/Mills/Murray

[james evans]

The spurs letting Mills walk so they can save money to give Parker a $20 million a year send off

[TheGreatYacht]

No thanks. Have fun in Philly!

[spursistan]

I love him, but let another team overpay him, tbh..Otherwise, yall gonna lament Porker still going Enrique in 2022...This team needs another starting Point Guard who is worth a shit when his shot isn't falling..

[Kawhitstorm]

I maintain that he probably re-signs and does so for less than many think (4/$40M?).

I'd be surprised if anyone views him as a starter. He's too limited a play maker and too small to be a 3 and D type and Bayless and Dellavedova are bad examples

Kings would take him in a heart beat.:lol

[ElNono]

Manu wrote an article on New Years' eve about Lapro getting cut and mentioning that the coaching staff had him more as insurance if Murray didn't make progress, but he also said that the coaching staff is high on Murray (and that is apparent after his last few stints). Just made me think the Spurs might actually be preparing to part ways with Patty if he gets a ridiculous offer.

I won't have a full size keyboard or the time to translate until the end of the week, but I thought it was interesting, so I figured I'll bring it up.

[dabom]

Manu wrote an article on New Years' eve about Lapro getting cut and mentioning that the coaching staff had him more as insurance if Murray didn't make progress, but he also said that the coaching staff is high on Murray (and that is apparent after his last few stints). Just made me think the Spurs might actually be preparing to part ways with Patty if he gets a ridiculous offer.

I won't have a full size keyboard or the time to translate until the end of the week, but I thought it was interesting, so I figured I'll bring it up.

What if they're preparing to ditch porker?

[ElNono]

What if they're preparing to ditch porker?

Parker is under contract and not going anywhere, IMO

[SAGirl]

Manu wrote an article on New Years' eve about Lapro getting cut and mentioning that the coaching staff had him more as insurance if Murray didn't make progress, but he also said that the coaching staff is high on Murray (and that is apparent after his last few stints). Just made me think the Spurs might actually be preparing to part ways with Patty if he gets a ridiculous offer.

I won't have a full size keyboard or the time to translate until the end of the week, but I thought it was interesting, so I figured I'll bring it up.
Thanks for sharing:toast I'll dig it up...
As an aside from this... glad to hear they are so high on Murray. It shows... kid has talent.
Manu4tres might be right... he was advocating letting Patty go and going with Murray.
Patty has also made those statements and it's easy for us to talk about someone giving discounts when it's not our money (and Patty hasn't gotten a big payday in comparison and this next contract he will be in his prime. He can't take those for granted. Dedmon and Simmons are the same). Anyways, it's going to be a FA market swing... the kind where they go into the market wanting to keep someone, but if offers are outrageous they let him go.

[james evans]

Well, If I were Mills, I wouldn't take a pay cut. Fuck that.

[DPG21920]

Thanks for sharing:toast I'll dig it up...
As an aside from this... glad to hear they are so high on Murray. It shows... kid has talent.
Manu4tres might be right... he was advocating letting Patty go and going with Murray.
Patty has also made those statements and it's easy for us to talk about someone giving discounts when it's not our money (and Patty hasn't gotten a big payday in comparison and this next contract he will be in his prime. He can't take those for granted. Dedmon and Simmons are the same). Anyways, it's going to be a FA market swing... the kind where they go into the market wanting to keep someone, but if offers are outrageous they let him go.

I'm fine with that and it's natural with the salary cap (and rebuilding) that SA would want to go cheaper and younger. However, Mills and Murray are two polar opposite players. So it's not like you would be swapping skillsets (just a point to make)

[Brazil]

I'd like to keep Dedmon too.

I am willing to let Simmons go.

Of course

:lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm fine with that and it's natural with the salary cap (and rebuilding) that SA would want to go cheaper and younger. However, Mills and Murray are two polar opposite players. So it's not like you would be swapping skillsets (just a point to make)

They are different players. I just know Spurs have a lower defensive ceiling as a 2nd unit if Spurs go with Murray defending SGs instead of PGs. I hope Spurs are fully aware how much of an edge Murray would bring if they optimize Murrays' rare physical attributes defending the PG position. His elite length and size would give the Spurs an edge on defense that not many teams have. You have to put him in the position where he can maximize his effectiveness on both ends ( not just offense).

He needs to be the back up PG on both ends next year imo. Allocating 10-15% of the cap to Mills would not only be overpaying for a shooter ( who's a defensive liability), but it will impede Murrays overall progression/effectivess to his overall floor game on both ends.

Im

[SAGirl]

I'm fine with that and it's natural with the salary cap (and rebuilding) that SA would want to go cheaper and younger. However, Mills and Murray are two polar opposite players. So it's not like you would be swapping skillsets (just a point to make)
Yeah,
I know and they can play together very well... I think at this point it's really about Patty himself and what offers he gets and wants to do. I think Spurs want him but probably not at any cost...

[DPG21920]

I probably agree overall. I'm just not sure if Murray will be ready offensively next year for a consistent role. He could be but it's not a given in my mind.

Doesn't change the overall point about paying Mills though. It is what it is and there are just too many variables at the moment regarding FA. There are situations where keeping Mills may make sense and many that don't.

[spursistan]

Points scored by Mills in last 10 games: 13, 5, 11, 13, 3, 23, 2, 6, 6, 5

I am not paying big money for this type of wild inconsistency; Spurs can afford it with Green because he brings the D to the equation; otherwise Patty is virtually invisible and unplayable when the shot isn't there..

I assume if Brett Brown survives the season in Philly he will get an offer he wouldn't refuse...the Aussie connection with Ben Simmons/Brett should make it an obvious choice..

[dabom]

Points scored by Mills in last 10 games: 13, 5, 11, 13, 3, 23, 2, 6, 6, 5

I am not paying big money for this type of wild inconsistency; Spurs can afford it with Green because he brings the D to the equation; otherwise Patty is virtually invisible and unplayable when the shot isn't there..

I assume if Brett Brown survives the season in Philly he will get an offer he wouldn't refuse...the Aussie connection with Ben Simmons/Brett should make it an obvious choice..

He is moving the ball and playing defense you stupid fuck. He is a scoring machine who can get you buckets in the playoffs. Tell me who in that second unit can do that? :lmao

[Slippy]

Points scored by Mills in last 10 games: 13, 5, 11, 13, 3, 23, 2, 6, 6, 5

I am not paying big money for this type of wild inconsistency; Spurs can afford it with Green because he brings the D to the equation; otherwise Patty is virtually invisible and unplayable when the shot isn't there..

I assume if Brett Brown survives the season in Philly he will get an offer he wouldn't refuse...the Aussie connection with Ben Simmons/Brett should make it an obvious choice..

As pop would say everybody defers on this team. That includes Patty at times. If the shots isnt there he moves the ball. An aspect of his game that he needed to improve on.

[TD 21]

Kings would take him in a heart beat.:lol

Kings are likely to make a trade by the deadline and might have the position filled. They've been rumored to have interest in Dragic, Knight and Rubio.

People always bring up the 76ers because of Brown, but they'll have at least one high pick in a draft that's PG heavy near the top, as well as a returning Bayless.


They are different players. I just know Spurs have a lower defensive ceiling as a 2nd unit if Spurs go with Murray defending SGs instead of PGs. I hope Spurs are fully aware how much of an edge Murray would bring if they optimize Murrays' rare physical attributes defending the PG position. His elite length and size would give the Spurs an edge on defense that not many teams have. You have to put him in the position where he can maximize his effectiveness on both ends ( not just offense).

He needs to be the back up PG on both ends next year imo. Allocating 10-15% of the cap to Mills would not only be overpaying for a shooter ( who's a defensive liability), but it will impede Murrays overall progression/effectivess to his overall floor game on both ends.

Im

True, but there is no such thing as a perfect team. Backup backcourt defense has never been a prime reason for a team not winning a championship and will probably have no bearing on whether Mills is re-signed or not. Plus, on occasion, they can have them cross match.

If Mills is lost, what flexibility or assets will there be to replace that caliber of guard? They could hope Forbes becomes Daniels or sign a guy like Canaan (if Bulls decline team option) for the minimum, but this is a franchise still trying to contend. Lose Ginobili and Mills and replace them with that and they couldn't even pretend at that point.

[MaNu4Tres]

Kings are likely to make a trade by the deadline and might have the position filled. They've been rumored to have interest in Dragic, Knight and Rubio.

People always bring up the 76ers because of Brown, but they'll have at least one high pick in a draft that's PG heavy near the top, as well as a returning Bayless.



True, but there is no such thing as a perfect team. Backup backcourt defense has never been a prime reason for a team not winning a championship and will probably have no bearing on whether Mills is re-signed or not. Plus, on occasion, they can have them cross match.

If Mills is lost, what flexibility or assets will there be to replace that caliber of guard? They could hope Forbes becomes Daniels or sign a guy like Canaan (if Bulls decline team option) for the minimum, but this is a franchise still trying to contend. Lose Ginobili and Mills and replace them with that and they couldn't even pretend at that point.

Back up backcourt defense has never been a prime reason for a team not winning a championship. You're right about that, but just like in any business, any edge helps -- especially an edge that's rare and hard to find. And with Murrays edge, Spurs will be able to optimally negate back up PGs effectiveness and who's to say that once Murray continues to grow ( could happen sooner than people think) that he can't be utilized in staggered linupes with the starters when TP is playing like shit? Or to close games as soon as next year ( if he progresses)? A seasoned/ confident Murray, Green, Kawhi defensively on the perimeter to close games would be very scary IMO. This is of course if Murray continues to progress and improve towards his very high ceiling -- which may or may not happen. But if I were a betting man, I'd bet Murray fulfills expectations because the kid has the work ethic to reach incredible heights -- patience and persistence is the key.

Regarding Patty...

I don't think Spurs will lose much with Mills gone. He's a solid player for his role, and he's a damn easy guy to fall in love with because of his great personality, great work ethic, his shooting, ect. But he's an outlier that's a defensive liability and he's not part of the core at the end of the day. Without him, Spurs are still a top 4 team in the West, imo.

Next year, I prefer Spurs promote Murray to be the back up, while going after Korver, PJ Tucker, Hollis Thompson, all at a discount (Korver/Tuckers' age hurts their market value -- they shouldn't fetch anything north of 10 mil). I also think they need to draft the best wing possible in the upcoming draft. Simmons and Hanga are also options to explore. There's a lot of options. I just find it hard to justify paying Patty 13-15 mil per when you have a player w/ Murrays skill set/ceiling making 1 million per year the next 3 years -- a player who's already starving for a bigger opportunity. You want him playing the PG position, his value and overall effectiveness drops playing the SG next to Mills.

[dabom]

I love Murray but he ain't close for the next 3 years in production or impact next to mills. Mills is the glue guy on this team, for team missing offense. :lmao

[DPG21920]

I love Murray but he ain't close for the next 3 years in production or impact next to mills. Mills is the glue guy on this team, for team missing offense. :lmao

They are very different players. The idea would be to replace Patty with someone that can also shoot while having Murray hopefully grow into a Corey Joseph type role (attacking PG/defensive PG)

[BillMc]

I love Murray but he ain't close for the next 3 years in production or impact next to mills. Mills is the glue guy on this team, for team missing offense. :lmao

Mills is great, but how much would you pay to keep him? What's the limit you'd be okay with?

[dabom]

People like to bitch about the second best player impact wise. You just can't lose those guys for 3rd string bad/decent the next 3 years and expect other players to show up. You go from contenders to fringe playoff teams. :lol

[BillMc]

They are very different players. The idea would be to replace Patty with someone that can also shoot while having Murray hopefully grow into a Corey Joseph type role (attacking PG/defensive PG)

This.

Unfortunately, for the shooter role, Forbes hasn't shown he can be Patty light. Much less prime Mills. Of course, it took a few years for Patty to emerge too.

[dabom]

Mills is great, but how much would you pay to keep him? What's the limit you'd be okay with?

I'd pay him 14mil a year. Easy.

[DPG21920]

I'd pay him 14mil a year. Easy.

If the Spurs miss out on younger more versatile players, sure.

[DPG21920]

This.

Unfortunately, for the shooter role, Forbes hasn't shown he can be Patty light. Much less prime Mills. Of course, it took a few years for Patty to emerge too.

Ya - Forbes hasn't shown too much unfortunately. But the Spurs seem good at finding the Gary Neal, Mills type players. So hopefully that continues.

[dabom]

They are very different players. The idea would be to replace Patty with someone that can also shoot while having Murray hopefully grow into a Corey Joseph type role (attacking PG/defensive PG)

I don't like to debate parker, but I'd replace Parker with Murray and keep Mills. Never happening but that's what I'd do.

[BillMc]

I'd pay him 14mil a year. Easy.

That may be what it will cost to keep him. Danny got 10 a year before the cap exploded and everyone thought it was a great deal for the Spurs.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs without Mills are a fringe playoff team? My goodness. :lol

Sound like the guys last summer saying Spurs wouldn't win or would barely win 50 games this year because they lost a lot of their bench.

[DPG21920]

I don't like to debate parker, but I'd replace Parker with Murray and keep Mills. Never happening but that's what I'd do.

Well, that is just not very likely so I dont feel like it's worth putting time into. Plus again, Murray is no where near the PG TP is. Murray very well could be a better PG than Mills. That is the key.

Mills is not a PG and is a very different player than TP/Murray.

[dabom]

Spurs without Mills are not a fringe playoff team. My goodness. :lol

Sound like the guys last summer saying Spurs wouldn't win or would barely win 50 games this year because they lost a lot of their bench.

Except I never said that faggot. So don't even imply I'm in that field. Sounds funny coming from the guy who said LMA was gonna be traded at deadline from some "sources". Go ahead. Double down. :lol

[TD 21]

Back up backcourt defense has never been a prime reason for a team not winning a championship. You're right about that, but just like in any business, any edge helps -- especially an edge that's rare and hard to find. And with Murrays edge, Spurs will be able to optimally negate back up PGs effectiveness and who's to say that once Murray continues to grow ( could happen sooner than people think) that he can't be utilized in staggered linupes with the starters when TP is playing like shit?

I don't think Spurs will lose much with Mills gone. He's a solid player for his role, and he's a damn easy guy to fall in love with because of his great personality, great work ethic, his shooting, ect. But he's an outlier that's a defensive liability and he's not part of the core at the end of the day. Without him, Spurs are still a top 4 team in the West, imo.

Next year, I prefer Spurs promote Murray to be the back up, while going after Korver, PJ Tucker, Hollis Thompson, all at a discount (Korver/Tuckers' age hurts their market value -- they shouldn't fetch anything north of 10 mil). I also think they need to draft the best wing possible in the upcoming draft. Simmons and Hanga are also options to explore. There's a lot of options. I just find it hard to justify paying Patty 13-15 mil per when you have a player w/ Murrays skill set/ceiling making 1 million per year the next 3 years -- a player who's already starving for a bigger opportunity. You want him playing the PG position, his value and overall effectiveness drops playing the SG next to Mills.

I'd have to know the exact replacement and remainder of the rotation before hazarding a guess as to whether they'd remain a top 4 team in the West.

I'd say Mills is part of the core. He's not only the 6th man, he's in a virtual platoon with Parker and occasionally operates as a co go-to crunch time guy.

There's no way of knowing whether he commands $13-15M and I'm pretty sure they won't have significant cap space even if he leaves.

Murray might be best off playing PG on both sides of the ball, but it's about what's best for the team and I don't think Mills is as easily replaceable as you do.

[dabom]

Well, that is just not very likely so I dont feel like it's worth putting time into. Plus again, Murray is no where near the PG TP is. Murray very well could be a better PG than Mills. That is the key.

Mills is not a PG and is a very different player than TP/Murray.

TP and Murray are in the same mold. One has the experience/team knowledge but really fucking old and the other is a rookie with his head in his ass, but shows flashes. I'd bet on the young kid to get better and tony to get worse.

[DPG21920]

TP and Murray are in the same mold. One has the experience/team knowledge but really fucking old and the other is a rookie with his head in his ass, but shows flashes. I'd bet on the young kid to get better and tony to get worse.

Well ya, but TP is going to be here and while he's declining and Murray growing, TP is still the best PG.

[dabom]

Well ya, but TP is going to be here and while he's declining and Murray growing, TP is still the best PG.

Between TP and Murray, sure, but giving him starter minutes would expedite that.

[MaNu4Tres]

Except I never said that faggot. So don't even imply I'm in that field. Sounds funny coming from the guy who said LMA was gonna be traded at deadline from some "sources". Go ahead. Double down. :lol

Cute try.

I never said LMA was going to be traded at the deadline. My source said LMA wasn't happy ( this was at the start of the season) and that he regretted his decision to not go to Phoenix around last trade deadline and this past summer. That is totally differnt than saying, " LMA is going to get traded, my sources told me that". Doesn't surprise me either because your comprehension can be on the same level as some 20 year old jerk offs on this site at times.

[dabom]

Cute try.

I never said LMA was going to be traded at the deadline. My source said LMA wasn't happy ( this was at the start of the season) and that he regretted his decision to not go to Phoenix around last trade deadline and this past summer. That is totally differnt than saying, " LMA is going to get traded, my sources told me that". Doesn't surprise me either because you're comprehension can be on the same level as some 20 year old jerk offs on this site at times.

I'm not gonna go through 3 or more threads looking for clues. You were confident enough to bet me and someone else. That means you actually expected it to happen. Playing word games when your actions speak louder. :lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

I'd have to know the exact replacement and remainder of the rotation before hazarding a guess as to whether they'd remain a top 4 team in the West.

I'd say Mills is part of the core. He's not only the 6th man, he's in a virtual platoon with Parker and occasionally operates as a co go-to crunch time guy.

There's no way of knowing whether he commands $13-15M and I'm pretty sure they won't have significant cap space even if he leaves.

Murray might be best off playing PG on both sides of the ball, but it's about what's best for the team and I don't think Mills is as easily replaceable as you do.

I can understand that, but I just don't agree on the decision to re-sign him because of the reasons I've already mentioned.

Chalk it up to agree to disagree.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm not gonna go through 3 or more threads looking for clues. You were confident enough to bet me and someone else. That means you actually expected it to happen. Playing word games when your actions speak louder. :lmao

It's not word games, its what I said. Feel free to go back and look. I'm not wrong on this. I know what was said to me and I know what I said.

[dabom]

It's not word games, its what I said. Feel free to go back and look. I'm not wrong on this. I know what was said to me and I know what I said.

You bet me. You believed it. Why else take it?

[MaNu4Tres]

You bet me. You believed it. Why else take it?

Lol its 50 dollars.

[dabom]

Lol its 50 dollars.

It is. But i don't take all bets just cause they are $50. :lol

[DPG21920]

The point about Patty is he's not a starting PG. If you think the G rotation this year is the downfall, you have to really consider paying Mills a lot of money because that means the same problem exists next year only more expensive now.

Mills should be kept under many scenarios but others should definitley be explored and if SA can get another shooter (Mills role) and actually get a better true back up PG (both attacking and defensively - hopefully Murray) they can be better off.

[BillMc]

I'd pay him 14mil a year. Easy.

I wonder if for that money you could get Hill out of Utah? Of course, we've got Patty's bird rights, so far easier to re-sign Mills.

[MaNu4Tres]

It is. But i don't take all bets just cause they are $50. :lol

I don't take all bets either, but it was honestly a fun, 50 dollar bet. Nothing more.

[dabom]

The point about Patty is he's not a starting PG. If you think the G rotation this year is the downfall, you have to really consider paying Mills a lot of money because that means the same problem exists next year only more expensive now.

Mills should be kept under many scenarios but others should definitley be explored and if SA can get another shooter (Mills role) and actually get a better true back up PG (both attacking and defensively - hopefully Murray) they can be better off.

You act like Patty is the problem for fuck's sake. :lmao

[dabom]

I don't take all bets either, but it was honestly a fun, 50 dollar bet. Nothing more.

I'm just gonna leave it there.

[BillMc]

The point about Patty is he's not a starting PG. If you think the G rotation this year is the downfall, you have to really consider paying Mills a lot of money because that means the same problem exists next year only more expensive now.

Mills should be kept under many scenarios but others should definitley be explored and if SA can get another shooter (Mills role) and actually get a better true back up PG (both attacking and defensively - hopefully Murray) they can be better off.

Can we realistically get Hill and push Tony to the bench?

[DPG21920]

You act like Patty is the problem for fuck's sake. :lmao

I think he's a problem in the context of the Spurs needs, yes. He plays really bad defense (he tries, he's just small and not good) and he's not a good PG in terms of running an offense, passing & getting into the lane.

He's really good in his role but the point is addressing the need (a PG to surpass TP) and how the Spurs can get there.

[dabom]

I think he's a problem in the context of the Spurs needs, yes. He plays really bad defense (he tries, he's just small and not good) and he's not a good PG in terms of running an offense, passing & getting into the lane.

He's really good in his role but the point is addressing the need (a PG to surpass TP) and how the Spurs can get there.

This is why you are a stupid fuck. :lmao

I'm a Spurs fan through and through but don't tell me Patty is the problem. Watch the fucking games faggot. :lmao

[DPG21920]

Can we realistically get Hill and push Tony to the bench?

Not sure - too many unknown variables right now: Salary Cap Number (although this seems like the least of the unknowns), how UTA does this year and the room they have to re-sign Hill, Does Pau opt-in or out, What is the market for Mills, how does this team do in the playoffs, how does TP look, Murray, etc...

Just too many.

With regards to Hill and SA there is an obvious need and connection and some pathways to that, but it's not a slam dunk by any stretch.

[DPG21920]

This is why you are a stupid fuck. :lmao

I'm a Spurs fan through and through but don't tell me Patty is the problem. Watch the fucking games faggot. :lmao

You're missing the point. I'm not saying Patty is "the problem". I'm using context. You're either being obtuse or I am sorely over-estimating your intellect.

[dabom]

You're missing the point. I'm not saying Patty is "the problem". I'm using context. You're either being obtuse or I am sorely over-estimating your intellect.

You just said he is you stupid fuck. :lmao

[DPG21920]

You just said he is you stupid fuck. :lmao

Read it again.

[dabom]

I think he's a problem in the context of the Spurs needs, yes. He plays really bad defense (he tries, he's just small and not good) and he's not a good PG in terms of running an offense, passing & getting into the lane.

He's really good in his role but the point is addressing the need (a PG to surpass TP) and how the Spurs can get there.

Doesn't matter if you said "in the context of the Spurs needs". You are starting that with "he's a problem". :lmao

Faggot. :lmao

[vander]

he's definitely not worth more than Green, 4/36 max IMO

[DPG21920]

Doesn't matter if you said "in the context of the Spurs needs". You are starting that with "he's a problem". :lmao

Faggot. :lmao

Saying he's a problem in the context of our discussion is wildly different that saying he's the problem. But you know that.

He's a problem because TP is under contact so he's staying and if the PG spot needs to be upgraded Mills is a problem because of the money he will command and his skillsets.

He is great for SA but he is not the answer to the PG spot for SA and he is a FA so the Spurs have to deal with that.

Stop being an idiot for like 5 minutes please.

[dabom]

Saying he's a problem in the context of our discussion is wildly different that saying he's the problem. But you know that.

He's a problem because TP is under contact so he's staying and if the PG spot needs to be upgraded Mills is a problem because of the money he will command and his skillsets.

He is great for SA but he is not the answer to the PG spot for SA and he is a FA so the Spurs have to deal with that.

Stop being an idiot for like 5 minutes please.

Stop trying to sugar coat it. It no way in any context is he the fucking problem stupid fuck. :lmao

[BillMc]

I do wonder how Patty would perform with the bench post-Manu. Having a 2 guard who can run the offense like a point to a large degree maximizes Patty's considerable strengths and minimizes his weaknesses.

[DPG21920]

Stop trying to sugar coat it. It no way in any context is he the fucking problem stupid fuck. :lmao

You continue to be an idiot unfortunatley. Turn the corner.

[dabom]

You continue to be an idiot unfortunatley. Turn the corner.

You're the one that said it you stupid fuck. :lmao

[DPG21920]

You're the one that said it you stupid fuck. :lmao

Read it again.

[dabom]

Read it again.

I understand English better than you. You need to go back and understand what you wrote, faggot. :lmao

[DPG21920]

I understand English better than you. You need to go back and understand what you wrote, faggot. :lmao

Nah - it's pretty clear to everyone you do not. You can feel free to disagree with my logic/assessment there, but you aren't doing that. You are completely ignoring very basic comprehension so that you can post emoji's like a teenage girl.

[dabom]

Nah - it's pretty clear to everyone you do not. You can feel free to disagree with my logic/assessment there, but you aren't doing that. You are completely ignoring very basic comprehension so that you can post emoji's like a teenage girl.

Who the fuck is everyone? No one has even replied to it. :lmao

Imaginary people now? Delusional fuck. :lmao

[DPG21920]

Who the fuck is everyone? No one has even replied to it. :lmao

Imaginary people now? Delusional fuck. :lmao

People are consistently calling you out for your lack of comprehension.

[dabom]

People are consistently calling you out for your lack of comprehension.

I constantly destroy posters. Try again. :lmao

[DPG21920]

I constantly destroy posters. Try again. :lmao

Who says that? Imaginary people?

[CGD]

He would be awesome on the Bucks. They need shooting and a PG who can play off ball to allow Giannis to do his thing.

Spurs are in a tough spot. Hope they find to make it work.

[dabom]

Who says that? Imaginary people?

That's your forte, faggot. :lmao

[DPG21920]

Link?

[dabom]

Nah - it's pretty clear to everyone you do not. You can feel free to disagree with my logic/assessment there, but you aren't doing that. You are completely ignoring very basic comprehension so that you can post emoji's like a teenage girl.


Who the fuck is everyone? No one has even replied to it. :lmao

Imaginary people now? Delusional fuck. :lmao


Link?

:lmao

[dabom]

That's your forte, faggot. :lmao

[DPG21920]

That doesn't make any sense.

[dabom]

That doesn't make any sense.

You're one that talks to imaginary people, faggot. It's your forte. :lmao

[DPG21920]

That really doesn't make any sense.

[dabom]

That really doesn't make any sense.

That's cause you're a dumbass. :lmao

[DPG21920]

That's cause you're a dumbass. :lmao

Huh?

[Brazil]

:lol not sure I understand dabom pay Patty in the off season stance tbh...

you pay Patty and you put yourself in a worst spot than with Parker :lol

I love Patty but he is heading towards 30s, his defense is based on his energy to be a pest, this is what he does, energy defense that will fade away with more minutes and age... For this kind of price you want him to be a starter but then again Patty is not a playmaker tbh at all. Kawhi is already main piece on scoring and defense, what's the plan here ? transform him also in a PG ala Lebron :lol ? Play Kyle fucking Anderson as PG? :lmao... at this point better calling Utah to get Boris back

[Chinook]

It's too bad Murray wasn't drafted a year earlier. With some seasoning, he could have been in the mix for minutes in the Anderson/Simmons/Butler spot last year and might have made Manu expendable this year. In the very least the Spurs would have a better idea of what to do with Patty this summer had they had more time to see Murray. My official stance is to go for a big-fish guard first and then build the best roster you can after that. It's possible for Patty to be part of one or both of those paths, but keeping 3/4 or the current guard rotation is risky unless there's some major internal improvement for a young guard.

But obviously, the Spurs aren't likely to trade Parker, so the answer of "Yes, pay Patty and trade Tony" is sort of dishonest. The likely question is whether to commit $40 Million to Parker, Patty and Green or let Patty walk.

[sasaint]

Excellent Aussie article about Patty's value in free agency: https://pickandroll.com.au/aussies-nba-patty-mills-become-australias-richest-sportsman-2017/

[gambit1990]

if parker makes $15 million next year, how much does patty?

patty's advanced metrics beats tony's virtually across the board:
https://s27.postimg.org/vgil2n7cz/image.pnghttps://s27.postimg.org/mzj2rq2o3/image.png
patty also has a better: PER, TS%, OWS, DWS, WS, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, VORP.

the spurs offensive rating & defensive rating are both better with patty on the court instead of parker.

[gambit1990]

Excellent Aussie article about Patty's value in free agency: https://pickandroll.com.au/aussies-nba-patty-mills-become-australias-richest-sportsman-2017/
nice find.

[sasaint]

nice find.

:toast

[BillMc]

Excellent Aussie article about Patty's value in free agency: https://pickandroll.com.au/aussies-nba-patty-mills-become-australias-richest-sportsman-2017/

Good read. Cheers.

[RD2191]

Let him walk. He doesn't deserve big money. He shoots and that's it. He does nothing else well. Not worth big money.

[RD2191]

People have been overrating Patty for years on here. He's always been an undersized SG. I remember when he was taking more shots than Kawhi and no one else seem outraged by it the way I was. He's always been streaky at best and an inefficient chucker at worst. People might not remember but Patty was a big reason we lost to the clips a couple of seasons ago. He was getting destroyed by Austin scrub Rivers and allowed the clips to get back in it iirc. Dabom is my dude but I don't agree with him on Mills. Paying Mills big money would be a huge mistake.

[spursistan]

I think if Mills resigns, it is going to be a home-town discount a la Green who really wanted to stay as a Spur..But I wouldn't be mad at Patty if he pursues the money elsewhere; this is his one and last opportunity at getting big pay check whereas Danny could probably still get another +10 millions contract in 2018.

[dabom]

People have been overrating Patty for years on here. He's always been an undersized SG. I remember when he was taking more shots than Kawhi and no one else seem outraged by it the way I was. He's always been streaky at best and an inefficient chucker at worst. People might not remember but Patty was a big reason we lost to the clips a couple of seasons ago. He was getting destroyed by Austin scrub Rivers and allowed the clips to get back in it iirc. Dabom is my dude but I don't agree with him on Mills. Paying Mills big money would be a huge mistake.

One fucking game isn't a series dude. Get it together. Dude shot 70% TS that whole series. We can re-watch all the games if you want.

[dabom]

I'm gonna break it down for ya.

.262 WS/48 FUCKING AMAZING :lol

6.8 BPM Dude was a FUCKING AMAZING POSITIVE PLAYER the whole series :lol

.744 TS% OMG!!! :lol


This is for anyone else that thinks Patty was a problem that series.

[dabom]

Raw plus/minus

+15
+5
+7
-7
+2
+11
+3

As far as I can tell, he needed more time that series.

[Seventyniner]

Raw plus/minus

+15
+5
+7
-7
+2
+11
+3

As far as I can tell, he needed more time that series.

With that logic, Bonner's #15 is definitely going in the rafters.

[Slippy]

I think if Mills resigns, it is going to be a home-town discount a la Green who really wanted to stay as a Spur..But I wouldn't be mad at Patty if he pursues the money elsewhere; this is his one and last opportunity at getting big pay check whereas Danny could probably still get another +10 millions contract in 2018.

Ya thats what im thinkin.

Patty is not stupid. He knows the spurs coaches & system allows Patty to play to his strengths. The grass wont be greener just becuase he will get a starting promise elswhere.

Factor in spurs usually overpay their players that end up finishing their careers as spurs. If patty goes out a spur for life he will get rewarded on the tail end of his career.

[sasaint]

Ya thats what im thinkin.

Patty is not stupid. He knows the spurs coaches & system allows Patty to play to his strengths. The grass wont be greener just becuase he will get a starting promise elswhere.

Factor in spurs usually overpay their players that end up finishing their careers as spurs. If patty goes out a spur for life he will get rewarded on the tail end of his career.

Exactly. Danny knew it, too. But just look at the guys who were successful role players with the Spurs who went elsewhere and never achieved that level of success again. The Spurs and Patty will get together.

[gambit1990]

With that logic, Bonner's #15 is definitely going in the rafters.
he posted +/- in addition to:

.262 WS/48 FUCKING AMAZING :lol

6.8 BPM Dude was a FUCKING AMAZING POSITIVE PLAYER the whole series :lol

.744 TS% OMG!!! :lol


This is for anyone else that thinks Patty was a problem that series.

patty having a .744 TS% :wow

you know what parker's was? .386 :lmao

patty's ORtg was 133, parker's was 86.

[gambit1990]

People have been overrating Patty for years on here.
you were also calling giannis a scrub last month...

1/6/17:

In his fourth year in the NBA, Milwaukee Bucks star Giannis Antetokounmpo is putting up numbers reminiscent of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird and Wilt Chamberlain.

http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/128319/giannis-antetokounmpo-is-a-statistical-wonder

[gambit1990]

i wonder if presti makes an offer. they could use shooting. they still have cameron payne on their roster for some reason :lol

[spursistan]

:lmao :lmao

[Nathan89]

Spurs better not pay this fucker. He's going to be overpaid by some team. Let him go.

[ElNono]

He's going to get paid, no doubt about it. Not by the Bucks, but some team will bite. Murray time, I guess.

[TheGreatYacht]

Philly could've overpaid Manure last offseason, yet we saved them the disaster. PATFO better not make the same mistake with this little microwave chucker

[cd021]

i wonder if presti makes an offer. they could use shooting. they still have cameron payne on their roster for some reason :lol

I would expect teams with a lot of cap space and are short on actual NBA talent try and sign him. Philly and Brooklyn come to mind.
Still expect him to resign, hopefully at about 4 years, $44 million.

[spursistan]

Anything above 8 millions; let him walk.

.more and more I feel like the "overrated one trick pony" camp has a point....

[midnightpulp]

:lol Gambit

At least Tony had a pulse.

:rollin :rollin :rollin

http://oi66.tinypic.com/o947eh.jpg

[Nathan89]

Anything above 8 millions; let him walk.

.more and more I feel like the "overrated one trick pony" camp has a point....

He'll get more than 8 mil tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol Gambit

At least Tony had a pulse.

:rollin :rollin :rollin

http://oi66.tinypic.com/o947eh.jpg
Mid burying the already dead :wow

[Nathan89]

:lol Gambit

At least Tony had a pulse.

:rollin :rollin :rollin

http://oi66.tinypic.com/o947eh.jpg

He look inept at the end of that game tbh.

[cd021]

He's going to get paid, no doubt about it. Not by the Bucks, but some team will bite. Murray time, I guess.

Haven't watched him short of highlights and garbage time in some games, he can't possibly be ready. I would think he needs another year. If Manu retires, we could be looking at a bench of Murray, Simmons, Anderson, Bertans, and Dedmon/Lee, that's not a lot of shooting on the floor.

[ElNono]

Haven't watched him short of highlights and garbage time in some games, he can't possibly be ready. I would think he needs another year. If Manu retires, we could be looking at a bench of Murray, Simmons, Anderson, Bertans, and Dedmon/Lee, that's not a lot of shooting on the floor.

Pop will get a veteran to run with them. Just not for $12m a year....

[timtonymanu]

Patty should follow the money. He's peaked as a player and he can't be relied on all the time. But if he wants to stay on a friendly discount, I'm fine with it. But the team is also banking on Murray and Forbes so I don't see Patty sticking around regardless.

[objective]

He was trash tonight.

No gift contract for him. He's no Manu, he doesn't deserve one.

MLE in the new CBA, tops.

[objective]

And what is up with Mills and unforced turnovers?

What a joke. A guy who can't run an offense or even a pick and roll well shouldn't be picking up his dribble and falling over or stepping out of bounds or the other crap he's been doing lately.

He needs to get yanked when he screws around like that. If his head isn't in the game he can sit down and let Murray turn it over instead.

[spursistan]

:lol Gambit

At least Tony had a pulse.

:rollin :rollin :rollin

http://oi66.tinypic.com/o947eh.jpg

How much are u ready to pay for a basketball player version of microwave? they are foolish if they give him a double digit millions salary..Not like the guy is 22yo with room to improve....

[gambit1990]

:lol Gambit

At least Tony had a pulse.

:rollin :rollin :rollin

http://oi66.tinypic.com/o947eh.jpg
patty's not allowed to have a bad game? it's typical of you to overreact.

parker was -6, patty was +3. and if patty took 15 shots he would'be had more than 14 points. 5 assists in 15 minutes isn't bad, took parker 32 minutes to get 7.

[dabom]

patty's not allowed to have a bad game? it's typical of you to overreact.

parker was -6, patty was +3. and if patty took 15 shots he would'be had more than 14 points. 5 assists in 15 minutes isn't bad, took parker 32 minutes to get 7.

So still a positive impact player. My nigga. :tu

[dabom]

We'd be in fourth place and not championship contenders without Patty. Ya don't need to bump every loss. All 15-19 all year. :lol

[midnightpulp]

patty's not allowed to have a bad game? it's typical of you to overreact.

parker was -6, patty was +3. and if patty took 15 shots he would'be had more than 14 points. 5 assists in 15 minutes isn't bad, took parker 32 minutes to get 7.

He's had over two weeks of "bad games" and was terrible in the last 6 meaningful games (playoffs) the Spurs played.

But you refuse to be humbled about House. Just accept he's a microwave player and end your dipshit "Start Patty" crusade.

[spursistan]

GTFO :lmao

Thanks for 2014, but see ya man!

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs will be dumb to spend 50 million on a prime Dana Barros/Eddie House when they have a player like Murray thirsty for a bigger role for 1/12th of Barros expected salary.

I said it at the start of the year, and I'll continue to say it til the summer.

[dabom]

Spurs will be dumb to spend 50 million on a prime Dana Barros/Eddie House when they have a player like Murray thirsty for a bigger role for 1/12th of Barros expected salary.

I said it at the start of the year, and I'll continue to say it til the summer.

You also said LMA was getting traded.

[MaNu4Tres]

You also said LMA was getting traded.

Wrong. Troll somewhere else.

[dabom]

Wrong. Troll somewhere else.

You even bet me. Weird... :lmao

[spursistan]

Spurs will be dumb to spend 50 million on a prime Dana Barros/Eddie House when they have a player like Murray thirsty for a bigger role for 1/12th of Barros expected salary.

I said it at the start of the year, and I'll continue to say it til the summer.

:tu

Absolutely....

On another note, if he continues his play of past month he is going to tank his value anyway..35% both FG/3PT in his last 11 games..

[dabom]

:tu

Absolutely....

On another note, if he continues his play of past month he is going to tank his value anyway..35% both FG/3PT in his last 11 games..

Let's ask you for a take, faggot. Is he gonna keep shooting this numbers over the next half of the season? :lol

You don't need to answer it, faggot. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Let's ask you for a take, faggot. Is he gonna keep shooting this numbers over the next half of the season? :lol

You don't need to answer it, faggot. :lmao

:lol You love defending this dude, don't you?

Look, I was on board with House at the start of the season when he was on fire and Parker was looking like shit. But defenses have adjusted now and House hasn't got it going in a month. And no, he "always shows up in the playoffs" isn't a valid hope. You hoped for that last year and he responded with 4ppg on .280 3pt, and a wide open missed game winner.

If I'm Pop, House has 5 more games to show me something (really something, like 18 points on good shooting. None of this 10 points on 4-11 shooting horseshit) or I'm playing Murray more backup minutes.

Any logical non-player fan would agree. House might've peaked.

[vander]

Price has got to be free falling. Would anyone really pay this guy 10+ million right now? He should just sign a 4/35 extension with the spurs now before he loses even more.

[RD2191]

:lmao op should be permabanned

[Nathan89]

They better not overpay for a 6ft shooter tbh.

[midnightpulp]

He always shows up in the playoffs, tho :cry

[Ice009]

I don't really want him back. Would rather try and trade him for a taller player that does something consistently (in the playoffs).

[Robz4000]

His play in the postseason will decide it. If he performs well I think the Spurs give him $50-60mil. If not they won't offer any more than $40mil which means he's prolly gone.

[TheGreatYacht]

Regressing to the low 40% chucker he was post shoulder surgery

Wouldnt pay more than 5M/yr for him

[Hoops Czar]

His play in the postseason will decide it. If he performs well I think the Spurs give him $50-60mil. If not they won't offer any more than $40mil which means he's prolly gone.

Just when I thought I've heard it all. Pay a one trick pony $50-60M to shoot a basketball because he's awful at everything else would be pretty irresponsible. They might as well go out and Sign Teodosic for half that amount and actually get themselves a halfway decent ballhandler and creator.

[spursistan]

CROFL..

I am almost in" trade his ass for something before the deadline" camp..:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

CROFL..

I am almost in" trade his ass for something before the deadline" camp..:lol
It's so obvious he's gone in the offseason. Only a drunk driving GM wouldn't see it coming and would keep him past the trade deadline, tbh...

Hope that isn't the case here.

[dabom]

CROFL..

I am almost in" trade his ass for something before the deadline" camp..:lol

Make a take lukewarm faggot. :lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

I know Im in the minority and I dont care, but Id trade him at the deadline.

I said at the start of the year, if Murray progresses to the point where hes deserving of a role by the trade deadline, then Id pack Mills bag myself and get a return for him before the Spurs let him walk in the offseason.

As I said millions of times now, Spurs would be dumb to pay Dana Barros/ Eddie House 40-50 million this summer when they have a 20 yr old PG with all the talent in the world making 1/12th of the estimated salary. Would be terribly inefficient allocating that much money to a 5'11" shooter that cant defend.

[dabom]

Didn't know this was the fucking thunder getting rid of all their talented players for the "future". :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

Didn't know this was the fucking thunder getting rid of all their talented players for the "future". :lmao
We're talking about moving Microwave Paddy, so you don't have to worry about that

[dabom]

Patty is part of the starting 5 closing out. Whatever anyone says, spurs ain't dropping him at the deadline. :lol

[dabom]

Patty is the Spurs second highest impact player. Only a dumbass wouldn't trade him at deadline. :lmao

[cd98]

Patty, like most shooters, have hot and cold spells, but given the dearth of 3 point shooting on this team's backcourt players (and Murray is not a three point shooter), there is no way the Spurs are letting go of Mills. Maybe he should be on a shorter leash, but Pop is a big believer on shooters shooting open shots and if they miss, they miss. So I don't know that his minutes will change much even when he's struggling to make a basket.

[TheGreatYacht]

Only a dumbass wouldn't trade him at deadline. :lmao
I 100% agree. He has to go!

[SAGirl]

I know Im in the minority and I dont care, but Id trade him at the deadline.

I said at the start of the year, if Murray progresses to the point where hes deserving of a role by the trade deadline, then Id pack Mills bag myself and get a return for him before the Spurs let him walk in the offseason.

As I said millions of times now, Spurs would be dumb to pay Dana Barros/ Eddie House 40-50 million this summer when they have a 20 yr old PG with all the talent in the world making 1/12th of the estimated salary. Would be terribly inefficient allocating that much money to a 5'11" shooter that cant defend.
Frankly, I didn't see it at the time you initially posted it bc I didn't think Murray would progress this fast (and what a surprise that has been!), and also bc Mills is a well known Pop favorite. I thought after Manu's retirement they would prioritize re-upping him.

Right now though, the situation looks much different. Murray looks deserving of minutes and the Spurs have kept Forbes, though he's not playing much at all, bc they are developing him in the Mills' mold. Even if he's not as good as Mills, it doesn't matter bc Murray has the potential to be special.

I have changed my mind and I think Mills is now in the category of guys Spurs would like to keep, "but at the right price." Because Mills will get good offers, maybe roles, he's likely gone in which case trading him right now makes sense.

Spurs likely hold on to him though bc teams that are looking to win right now seldom give away rotation players and Mills is a significant part of the rotation right now and has produced very well for his role. Recent bad games notwithstanding, it's actually telling that his impact in the team is big enough that they can't win with him playing poorly... he's important to them.

[objective]

I know Im in the minority and I dont care, but Id trade him at the deadline.

I said at the start of the year, if Murray progresses to the point where hes deserving of a role by the trade deadline, then Id pack Mills bag myself and get a return for him before the Spurs let him walk in the offseason.

As I said millions of times now, Spurs would be dumb to pay Dana Barros/ Eddie House 40-50 million this summer when they have a 20 yr old PG with all the talent in the world making 1/12th of the estimated salary. Would be terribly inefficient allocating that much money to a 5'11" shooter that cant defend.

I'm for trading him.

I would have been against it if only to to keep LMA from pouting and being unhappy about his old friend getting traded, but LMA is already playing like he's miserable and uninterested. So I say screw it, dump Mills.

[DPG21920]

The problem is two-fold with trading Mills:

His salary is so low, you aren't going to get much back (unless you are just looking for a pick - which then clearly hurts the Spurs this year).

The second problem is that Mills is so different than Murray. Murray does not have a good 3-point shot (yet) and Mills shooting is really needed. I know SA would gain on defense and slashing with Murray, but SA would be down a shooter when they really don't have a lot of them with Manu being meh, Mills gone, Murray not a shooter and TP not a true 3PT shooter.

[MaNu4Tres]

The problem is two-fold with trading Mills:

His salary is so low, you aren't going to get much back (unless you are just looking for a pick - which then clearly hurts the Spurs this year).

The second problem is that Mills is so different than Murray. Murray does not have a good 3-point shot (yet) and Mills shooting is really needed. I know SA would gain on defense and slashing with Murray, but SA would be down a shooter when they really don't have a lot of them with Manu being meh, Mills gone, Murray not a shooter and TP not a true 3PT shooter.

Hard to quantify exactly how much of a positive one is over the other, but one thing is certain : Murray's 3 point shooting (as of late) is much better than the defense and play-making ability of Mills.

Also, Mills shooting can easily become non existent in a series as you saw vs. OKC because of variance and how shooters can go cold. However, Murrays D and slashing ability will always be a constant, game after game, series after series.

[mookie2001]

Ball handling aside Mills is just overmatched physically. Whether it's Matthew belladonna or Seth curry, opponents pick on his ass over and over again. Mills is the mark that the other team targets every time.

[DPG21920]

Hard to quantify exactly how much of a positive one is over the other, but one thing is certain : Murray's 3 point shooting (as of late) is much better than the defense and play-making ability of Mills.

Also, Mills shooting can easily become non existent in a series as you saw vs. OKC because of variance and how shooters can go cold. However, Murrays D and slashing ability will always be a constant, game after game, series after series.

Probably agree overall although you have seen how hard it is to play non-shooters in the playoffs. It's really hard.

But even if the above holds true; what can you get for Mills that returns value?

[MaNu4Tres]

Probably agree overall although you have seen how hard it is to play non-shooters in the playoffs. It's really hard.

But even if the above holds true; what can you get for Mills that returns value?

It's hard to play non-shooters if they offer no threat at all (I.E Anderson). That's not the case with Murray, the threat is there to keep the defense honest to a degree. I'm basing this off a small sample size, but the kid lets it fly and has a smooth stroke which has translated to an efficient clip thus far.

I think Spurs can get a late 1st from a playoff team such as Washington (upgrade: Burke), Hawks (upgrade: Delaney), Bulls (esp if they buy out Rondo).

Or if fringe playoff teams wants to make a push for the 8th seed like Philly.

Spurs can also use him in a package in a 2 for 1 deal. I.E Dedmon/Mills +1st for Nerlens ( just an example).

[DPG21920]

It's hard to play non-shooters if they offer no threat at all (I.E Anderson). That's not the case with Murray, the threat is there to keep the defense honest to a degree. I'm basing this off a small sample size, but the kid lets it fly and has a smooth stroke which has translated to an efficient clip thus far.

I think Spurs can get a late 1st from a playoff team such as Washington (upgrade: Burke), Hawks (upgrade: Delaney), Bulls (esp if they buy out Rondo).

Or if fringe playoff teams wants to make a push for the 8th seed like Philly.

Spurs can also use him in a package in a 2 for 1 deal. I.E Dedmon/Mills +1st for Nerlens ( just an example).

So you think SA is likely to risk taking a step back from a contention standpoint this year (i.e. Losing Mills for just a pick) in order to get a late 1st which rarely works out? I mean, I get it if you think he's walking but is a late 1st worth weakening the guard play at all (even just a little)?

[GSH]

So you think SA is likely to risk taking a step back from a contention standpoint this year (i.e. Losing Mills for just a pick) in order to get a late 1st which rarely works out? I mean, I get it if you think he's walking but is a late 1st worth weakening the guard play at all (even just a little)?

Dumping Patty for a pick? The backup PG's going into the playoffs would both be rookies, and one of them barely qualifies as being on the roster. If the Spurs were going to throw in the towel on this season, they needed to do it in the offseason. Doing it now would be the worst of both worlds. How many different ways are there to say, "Not gonna happen"?

[picnroll]

Have to hope Spurs don't hamstring themselves signing Mills to a long term semi-expensive contract. He's not proved he's consistent enough to be worth it.

[MaNu4Tres]

So you think SA is likely to risk taking a step back from a contention standpoint this year (i.e. Losing Mills for just a pick) in order to get a late 1st which rarely works out? I mean, I get it if you think he's walking but is a late 1st worth weakening the guard play at all (even just a little)?

Do I think SA is likely taking the risk? Probably not as they are conservative on the trade market and very disciplined. However, I highly doubt Spurs are turning down calls for Patty with Murray showing he's ready for a role. I"m sure they are listening to offers, but they'd have to get an offer they'd like -- a 1st round pick would be worth considering IMO -- not sure what they'd think though.

As for the short term, I don't think Spurs take a step back from contention and they certainly would not be " throwing in the towel". As of right now, only one of Mills or Murray will get meaningful minutes in the playoffs as the back up PG. I don't think losing Mills would be a hit, as I think Murray has closed the gap since the start of the season.

Despite Murray showing everything he's showed the past month, despite his strengths on the defensive end and playmaking ( two major weaknesses on the team at the PG position), despite him confidently going toe to toe with Kyrie Irving on a national stage much like Parker did vs. Gary Payton -- being a rookie is everyone's excuse why Murray can't be a back up PG -- which is silly (imo). The ability, and most importantly, the confidence is there much like Parkers was as a rookie.

I think Murray fills the gap as nicely as you can ask for with strengths Mills has never had -- all while remaining a threat from three (like Mills -- just not to the degree of Mills.). Spurs have never relied on three PGs in a playoff run, so I'm not sure why some are worried about the depth past Murray. I can understand if there were an injury to TP, but that's thinking the absolute worse scenario. And even in that situation, Spurs can sign Norris Cole or Jarrett Jack as insurance. There's a lot of viable options as far as third string PGs go on the open market because of how talented the PG position is across the league.

[TD 21]

Hard to quantify exactly how much of a positive one is over the other, but one thing is certain : Murray's 3 point shooting (as of late) is much better than the defense and play-making ability of Mills.

Also, Mills shooting can easily become non existent in a series as you saw vs. OKC because of variance and how shooters can go cold. However, Murrays D and slashing ability will always be a constant, game after game, series after series.

Mills is a proven 40% three-point shooter. Even when in an extended slump, he has to be accounted for, which means when he's playing off the ball, he's a spacer.

Within' reason, the money is somewhat irrelevant because they're going to need someone to fill his role off the bench anyway. Yeah, it would be nice if it came in a package that was wing sized, but Murray is, so that's not reason enough to let him go.

It's fine to want him gone, but within' the confines of trying to continue to contend for a championship annually, which they're trying to do, where's the realistic path to improvement? Given the lack of someone ready to take on his roll and limited financial flexibility, I don't see it.

[MaNu4Tres]

Mills is a proven 40% three-point shooter. Even when in an extended slump, he has to be accounted for, which means when he's playing off the ball, he's a spacer.

Within' reason, the money is somewhat irrelevant because they're going to need someone to fill his role off the bench anyway. Yeah, it would be nice if it came in a package that was wing sized, but Murray is, so that's not reason enough to let him go.

It's fine to want him gone, but within' the confines of trying to continue to contend for a championship annually, which they're trying to do, where's the realistic path to improvement? Given the lack of someone ready to take on his roll and limited financial flexibility, I don't see it.

Just like Spurs have filled in the minor roles on the team for the past 20 years, they'll do the same for Mills " shooter" role without breaking the bank. I'm confident they'll be able to overcome him leaving. Mills isn't a game changer, Mills is a role player and an outlier. He's not a starter, he's not a two way player. He's a specialty guy.

The only two bench role players the Spurs have splurged on were Manu and Malik Rose in the past 20 years. Manu because he's a hall of famer, All- Star, a bad ass, and a game changer on both ends -- you can't compare Mills to that. And Malik because Lakers offered him a similar deal and Spurs didn't want to lose their best bench player at the time to a conference rival. The Spurs know better not to overpay for smaller role. If they do, they'd be making a mistake in my eyes. People here overrate Pattys' true ability. His value is strictly tied to shot making, everything else he's average to below average to really terrible. Spurs have found and developed role playing shooters off the bench who shoot 40% from three for decades... decades... and here we are worried about losing a 40% shooter after decades of recovering when losing players like Steve Kerr, Brent Barry, Terry Porter, Danny Ferry, Roger Mason, Gary Neal... I can go on and on.

[BillMc]

How many different ways are there to say, "Not gonna happen"?


"Tas nav gatavojas notikt."

[TD 21]

Just like Spurs have filled in the minor roles on the team for the past 20 years, they'll do the same for Mills " shooter" role without breaking the bank. I'm confident they'll be able to overcome him leaving. Mills isn't a game changer, Mills is a role player and an outlier. He's not a starter, he's not a two way player. He's a specialty guy.

The only two bench role players the Spurs have splurged on were Manu and Malik Rose in the past 20 years. Manu because he's a hall of famer, All- Star, a bad ass, and a game changer on both ends -- you can't compare Mills to that. And Malik because Lakers offered him a similar deal and Spurs didn't want to lose their best bench player at the time to a conference rival. The Spurs know better not to overpay for smaller role. If they do, they'd be making a mistake in my eyes. People here overrate Pattys' true ability. His value is strictly tied to shot making, everything else he's average to below average to really terrible. Spurs have found and developed role playing shooters off the bench who shoot 40% from three for decades... decades... and here we are worried about losing a 40% shooter after decades of recovering when losing players like Steve Kerr, Brent Barry, Terry Porter, Danny Ferry, Roger Mason, Gary Neal... I can go on and on.

How is co 6th man and sometimes finisher in close games a "minor role"? Mills isn't just a shooter, he's a scorer.

The players you listed were mostly old, spot up shooters; not off the dribble ones, like Mills. Even though it was only Summer League, Neal looked ready to replace Mason and Belinelli was a proven rotation player when he replaced Neal. I don't get that same sense with Forbes. They also still had Ginobili closer to his prime then, which lessened the load on the other perimeter reserves.

This would be a much more significant loss, especially with Ginobili also likely retiring and Lee probably being gone, they'd damn near be starting from scratch, for a 2nd unit on an aspiring contender.

[dabom]

Mills is 6th man. Not a "minor role". :lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

How is co 6th man and sometimes finisher in close games a "minor role"? Mills isn't just a shooter, he's a scorer.

The players you listed were mostly old, spot up shooters; not off the dribble ones, like Mills. Even though it was only Summer League, Neal looked ready to replace Mason and Belinelli was a proven rotation player when he replaced Neal. I don't get that same sense with Forbes. They also still had Ginobili closer to his prime then, which lessened the load on the other perimeter reserves.

This would be a much more significant loss, especially with Ginobili also likely retiring and Lee probably being gone, they'd damn near be starting from scratch, for a 2nd unit on an aspiring contender.

6th man isn't as clear cut as years past when Spurs had younger Manu leading the way. Any given night this year, its someone different who sticks out.. This Spurs team, like last year, has more of a 6th man by committee -- meaning every niight its someone different.

Mills isn't a dynamic scorer, he's a shooter that can get off his shot vs. lazy defenses who go under or gets stuck on screens. He can't get off any shots without a screen. A scorer, in my opinion, is someone who can create opportunities in a multitude of different ways.

We just have a different opinion of Mills. You prefer the Spurs re-sign him because you think Spurs can't replace what he brings. I strongly disagree. Nothing you say will alter my way of thinking. If Spurs didn't draft Murray, and if Bertans never came over, then I'd be inclined to agree with your concern. However, that's not reality. I think Spurs will be just fine giving the keys to Murray as he will provide the scoring Mills provided AND will give the Spurs defense and play-making ( what true scorers do -- something Mills is not). They'll also have Bertans off the bench as the shooter to space the floor for Murray to do what he does.

We just have a different opinion of Mills and the demand for him on the Spurs.

No shame in that.

Spurs will be just fine without him after next year. IMO.

[poeticism707]

How is co 6th man and sometimes finisher in close games a "minor role"? Mills isn't just a shooter, he's a scorer.

The players you listed were mostly old, spot up shooters; not off the dribble ones, like Mills. Even though it was only Summer League, Neal looked ready to replace Mason and Belinelli was a proven rotation player when he replaced Neal. I don't get that same sense with Forbes. They also still had Ginobili closer to his prime then, which lessened the load on the other perimeter reserves.

This would be a much more significant loss, especially with Ginobili also likely retiring and Lee probably being gone, they'd damn near be starting from scratch, for a 2nd unit on an aspiring contender.

This and this.

Pay the man.

[TheGreatYacht]

There's dozens of Paddy's in the D-League, tbh.... :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I value Mills more than Manu4Tres does, but I agree that I wouldn't want the Spurs to retain him..I'm a big fan of his and I still believe he will bounce back and some team will overpay him(PG is the deepest position in the NBA, but there are still several teams that desperately need a player there), but the Spurs desperately need a change at that position..

If Parker was gone, then I'd keep Patty, but unfortunately, TP will be starting until he's 40..since that's the case, I'd rather get a more conventional PG or SG(along Murray, who will probably be a combo guard IMO) off the bench that can run the offense with Manu retiring..

[TD 21]

6th man isn't as clear cut as years past when Spurs had younger Manu leading the way. Any given night this year, its someone different who sticks out.. This Spurs team, like last year, has more of a 6th man by committee -- meaning every niight its someone different.

Mills isn't a dynamic scorer, he's a shooter that can get off his shot vs. lazy defenses who go under or gets stuck on screens. He can't get off any shots without a screen. A scorer, in my opinion, is someone who can create opportunities in a multitude of different ways.

We just have a different opinion of Mills. You prefer the Spurs re-sign him because you think Spurs can't replace what he brings. I strongly disagree. Nothing you say will alter my way of thinking. If Spurs didn't draft Murray, and if Bertans never came over, then I'd be inclined to agree with your concern. However, that's not reality. I think Spurs will be just fine giving the keys to Murray as he will provide the scoring Mills provided AND will give the Spurs defense and play-making ( what true scorers do -- something Mills is not). They'll also have Bertans off the bench as the shooter to space the floor for Murray to do what he does.

We just have a different opinion of Mills and the demand for him on the Spurs.

No shame in that.

Spurs will be just fine without him after next year. IMO.

He's basically co 6th man and with Ginobili on the verge of retirement and Lee likely gone too, it'll be more clear cut, barring a quantum leap from Murray.

I didn't say he was a "dynamic scorer", but he is a scorer; not just a spot up shooter, which is much easier to replace. Either way, one floor spacer on a unit isn't enough.

If "true scorers" provide play making, then by that logic, Leonard and Aldridge aren't true scorers.

You see this as an either or between Mills and Murray; I don't. It's not so much that I think Mills has to be kept at all costs, it's the unappealing alternatives, which is either the non shooting trio of Murray-Simmons-Anderson or only one of the latter two and an inexpensive shooter. Good luck trying to maintain a top 2-4 team that way, especially with Parker and Gasol another year older.

[dabom]

TD 21 going off. :wow

[MaNu4Tres]

He's basically co 6th man and with Ginobili on the verge of retirement and Lee likely gone too, it'll be more clear cut, barring a quantum leap from Murray.

I didn't say he was a "dynamic scorer", but he is a scorer; not just a spot up shooter, which is much easier to replace. Either way, one floor spacer on a unit isn't enough.

If "true scorers" provide play making, then by that logic, Leonard and Aldridge aren't true scorers.

You see this as an either or between Mills and Murray; I don't. It's not so much that I think Mills has to be kept at all costs, it's the unappealing alternatives, which is either the non shooting trio of Murray-Simmons-Anderson or only one of the latter two and an inexpensive shooter. Good luck trying to maintain a top 2-4 team that way, especially with Parker and Gasol another year older.

Here's where I think we disagree.

1) Leonard and Aldridge are multidimensional scorers. Mills is not. Leonard and Aldridge can score in a multitude of ways -- Jumpers, ISOs, posting up, getting to the line, ect. Mills can just shoot. That's it. He can't create shots for himself with the ball without a screen AND lazy PnR defense. He doesn't have other options besides using screens off the ball or spotting up. Mills is not a multidimensional scorer -- he's an Eddie House, a Gary Neal. He can score yes, but he's handcuffed to only shooting just like Eddie House and Gary Neal were.

Remember when Gary Neal avg. 10 points a game, 3 years in a row, shooting the ball? Remember the guy who waived the towel a lot that was buried behind him in the rotation? Did the Spurs recover when they decided to not pay Neal? If Neal had Mills' character and attitude, Spurstalk would have been so against letting him go ( much like people are doing now about Mills). How would they ever replace a shooter? Neal was the exact same player. Great shooter with the screen, great spot up shooter, terrible defender, not a good creator. However Neal had a more selfish or quick trigger from time to time, but same skillset nonetheless. And the Spurs were just fine letting him go because they had a player making hardly anything behind him ready for a promotion ( Mills then -- now Murray).

2) I don't think the gap between Manu/Patty and their presumed future successors is significant, if at all. I think Simmons and Murray are close to Manu/Patty overall offensively, all while offering much more on the defensive end. You seem to think otherwise as you're implying there's a significant gap and Spurs would be a 5th-8th seed because Mills/Manu are better shooters ( all while glossing over all the other important parts of the game). This isn't 2014 anymore for Manu and Murray is much better and more ready than most thought he would be early on. He has better defense, which is half the overall impact, better play-making --which is very valuable offensively and his shot has improved to be at least respectable). I don't see the gap you're seeing.

3) I don't think David Lee is going anywhere, he's at an age where the minimum is going to be the reality for him. The minimum will be more than it is now, but I think he'll be stuck with it due to the market for 34-36 yr old PF vets off the bench. And I honestly think David is really enjoying himself in San Antonio, you can really see it with his body language on and off the court. And say I'm dead wrong and a team comes in and offers David a 3 yr/20 million dollar deal, Spurs have Bertans ready for an expanded role and they have Anderson too - no harm no foul there.

4) I don't think its a Murray OR Mills dilemma. I just don't think Mills is worth a 4/44-50 million dollar deal. Not close. Not with Murray ready for an expanded role for 1/12th- 1/14th of Mills' presumed salary. I'll wish Mills the best, great guy, great teammate, but its basketball economics. I don't agree with that decision to pay Mills, just like I didn't agree to pay George Hill -- when me and objective discussed (weeks prior to draft) and wanted the Spurs to cash in their chips for Hill by trading him at the draft to Indiana for their 15th before his last season under rookie contract.

[Nathan89]

He's a 6ft shooter. You don't overpay for that. Spurs have to go after players with upside for pennies on the dollar. Not tie up their money in Patty Fucking Mills.

[TD 21]

Here's where I think we disagree.

1) Leonard and Aldridge are multidimensional scorers. Mills is not. Leonard and Aldridge can score in a multitude of ways -- Jumpers, ISOs, posting up, getting to the line, ect. Mills can just shoot. That's it. He can't create shots for himself with the ball without a screen AND lazy PnR defense. He doesn't have other options besides using screens off the ball or spotting up. Mills is not a multidimensional scorer -- he's an Eddie House, a Gary Neal. He can score yes, but he's handcuffed to only shooting just like Eddie House and Gary Neal were.

Remember when Gary Neal avg. 10 points a game, 3 years in a row, shooting the ball? Remember the guy who waived the towel a lot that was buried behind him in the rotation? Did the Spurs recover when they decided to not pay Neal? If Neal had Mills' character and attitude, Spurstalk would have been so against letting him go ( much like people are doing now about Mills). How would they ever replace a shooter? Neal was the exact same player. Great shooter with the screen, great spot up shooter, terrible defender, not a good creator. However Neal had a more selfish or quick trigger from time to time, but same skillset nonetheless. And the Spurs were just fine letting him go because they had a player making hardly anything behind him ready for a promotion ( Mills then -- now Murray).

2) I don't think the gap between Manu/Patty and their presumed future successors is significant, if at all. I think Simmons and Murray are close to Manu/Patty overall offensively, all while offering much more on the defensive end. You seem to think otherwise as you're implying there's a significant gap and Spurs would be a 5th-8th seed because Mills/Manu are better shooters ( all while glossing over all the other important parts of the game). This isn't 2014 anymore for Manu and Murray is much better and more ready than most thought he would be early on. He has better defense, which is half the overall impact, better play-making --which is very valuable offensively and his shot has improved to be at least respectable). I don't see the gap you're seeing.

3) I don't think David Lee is going anywhere, he's at an age where the minimum is going to be the reality for him. The minimum will be more than it is now, but I think he'll be stuck with it due to the market for 34-36 yr old PF vets off the bench. And I honestly think David is really enjoying himself in San Antonio, you can really see it with his body language on and off the court. And say I'm dead wrong and a team comes in and offers David a 3 yr/20 million dollar deal, Spurs have Bertans ready for an expanded role and they have Anderson too - no harm no foul there.

4) I don't think its a Murray OR Mills dilemma. I just don't think Mills is worth a 4/44-50 million dollar deal. Not close. Not with Murray ready for an expanded role for 1/12th- 1/14th of Mills' presumed salary. I'll wish Mills the best, great guy, great teammate, but its basketball economics. I don't agree with that decision to pay Mills, just like I didn't agree to pay George Hill -- when me and objective discussed (weeks prior to draft) and wanted the Spurs to cash in their chips for Hill by trading him at the draft to Indiana for their 15th before his last season under rookie contract.

1) Sure, Leonard and Aldridge are more complete scorers, but Mills is still a scorer/shooter and this is a team that is already lacking in firepower compared to the other elites, specifically the Warriors. Murray should be able to provide some, but when? Remember, they're still trying to win now.

They could let Neal go because Mills was clearly a rotation caliber player, who could provide the same things and they signed Belinelli, who was a proven rotation player who provided the same things. Murray doesn't provide what Mills does.

2) I think there's too much overlap between Murray and Simmons and that they'd be an awkward pairing, unless at least one shows significant improvement in their range shooting. If you don't have explosive offense, you can't win a championship in this era.

I didn't say anything about a 5-8 seed, I said top 2-4 team overall. They could easily fall out of that tier and into the next one.

Too early to make any definitive declarations on Murray.

3) I don't see the minimum as the reality for Lee necessarily and though I think he'd like to stay and they'd like to keep him, it's probably not practical. Bertans is ready now to be a rotation player, they'd make for an awkward pairing defensively on a full time basis and Lee is not yet at the point where I could envision him accepting a non rotation role.

4) I think Mills would take less to stay, something like $10-11M for a 6th man in '17 is not exorbitant and Hill was in a different situation. He was blocked by a late prime Ginobili and early prime Parker and they were too small as a trio to log significant minutes together. Plus, the team had a clear need at small forward.

[SAGirl]

This is still a current debate. Mills getting exposed against good defensive teams. :wakeup

[dabom]

Fathead got blocked by 100 year old Vince Carter. :lmao

[spursistan]

Paddy making or breaking our season :lmao..

Still think a "good Manu" game (12 pts/3ast/3reb/2stl) has the biggest impact on the Spurs than any other player off the bench ..Call me crazy but I would rather pay a 41 year-old Ginobili 4-6 millions in 2017-2018 than Microwave 48-50 millions if it comes to that...Then 2018 summer is when the major overhaul of the team happens with Aldridge/Pau/Parker/Green all come off the books or hit FA..

[PopTheGOAT]

At a reasonable price, I'd like Patty to be back. However, that's not going to happen unless he gives SA a big time discount. I think in the end, PATFO will decide that, considering the future at the PG position and Murray's transition to a key role, its best to let him make his money elsewhere.

As a sidebar, I really don't see Lee going anywhere

[$pursDynasty]

with how all the garbage teams (ahem Pistons) like to overpay for Spurs roll players, (and the Spurs letting them) I don't think Patty will be here next year. The last time his contract came up we were fresh off the glow of a title, and he had an injury. imo that is the only way we keep him again. (if we can snatch 6 :lobt2:)

[spursistan]

:lmao :rollin..

The most overrated Spurs player of the 2010s..

[TheGreatYacht]

Raisen brains on here don't want to give him up for Will Barton :lmao

[emanueldavidginobili]

Murray needs to become the back up point guard patty is obviously not our future, he's a way undersized guard who is terrible at defense not a good passer and is very inconsistent. Pop is to attached to patty to ever put him behind Murray though

[Hoops Czar]

Skatty Mills is hot garbage but, so is the majority of this roster.

[TheGreatYacht]

dabom

[MaNu4Tres]

Still feel the same..

[LittleCriminal]

I think Anderson needs to get the boot rather than mills..

[$pursDynasty]

Still say package them both for Lou Williams

[Ice009]

Still say package them both for Lou Williams

Absolutely. This is another scenario I would fly to SA for. Drive Mills and whoever else to the airport and fly back home.

[spursistan]

:lmao..


Let's hope PATFO don't get stiffed in another PG deal..Love (ed) him for what he's been for the team, but we got bigger roster fishes to fry..

[dabom]

This guy said 1-4 :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

:lmao..


Let's hope PATFO don't get stiffed in another PG deal..Love (ed) him for what he's been for the team, but we got bigger roster fishes to fry..

[TheGreatYacht]

:lmao

[spursistan]

:lmao..

'contract year' Paddy? He's been medicore and no better than last two seasons for 4 months now.. :lol..

[TheGreatYacht]

:lmao..

'contract year' Paddy? He's been medicore and no better than last two seasons for 4 months now.. :lol..
:cry but, but, he's OG! :madrun:

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm already looking forward to the offseason tbh. I've been a fan all my life and I keep it real. MEmphis will give Spurs fits .. to 6 or 7. I got HOU over SA in round 2.