Kyle Anderson is a legit NBA player.

[apalisoc_9]

Legit NBA player under the right circumstances and Position. I've seen enough to conclude he's easily the third best defensive player, possibly second when he plays the 4...And it it doesn't look like it matters if its against scrubs or good teams.

Length really helps him a ton and he's probably the second best help defender in the team behind Leonard.

Might be good practice for the team to keep him because Lee and Gasol are getting old..

[ElNono]

Not sold on that yet... today he had a good defensive game though

[100%duncan]

Not sold on that yet... today he had a good defensive game though

[picnroll]

Poster crapping on him because he missed some assignments but he overall had a solid game and was a significant contributor to the win. On defense just needs to cover his corner.

[cd98]

He is if he plays a back up stretch 4. His D has been consistently good (except on that Love 3) but his shooting is well below par.

[apalisoc_9]

Not sold on that yet... today he had a good defensive game though

the thing is, this isn't something new.

Anderson has always been fantastic defender when he plays the 4. We've seen it this year in various other games and last year.

He's never going to make it as a 3. He's way to slow and it limits him offensively and defensively...by a significant margin. Not to mention, not a good three pointer.

[Chinook]

He's a great defensive player and will eventually get better on O as he grows more mature. People who don't think he's an NBA player really don't know what they're talking about.

[mywastedlife900]

Legit NBA player under the right circumstances and Position. I've seen enough to conclude he's easily the third best defensive player, possibly second when he plays the 4...And it it doesn't look like it matters if its against scrubs or good teams.

Length really helps him a ton and he's probably the second best help defender in the team behind Leonard.

Might be good practice for the team to keep him because Lee and Gasol are getting old..

Hedge those bets. Front runner.

[dabom]

Not Spurs material for sure. :tu

[HarlemHeat37]

He's been an NBA-caliber player already due to his defensive prowess, tbh..there are players in the NBA that have made a living and are currently starters as defense-first players with no offensive ability(Mbah a Moute)..

Developing an offensive niche is the next step if he's going to become an ideal rotation player..I still don't think he will be able to do it here with Manu running the bench unit, but he will get a shot as Simmons is phased out of the rotation IMO(like last season)..

[Mnky]

He's an NBA player, but he's not a championship level player. You can have championship bench players, ala mills who fit a niche and don't usually make more mistakes than positives. Kyle will do good here and there but never consistently. He does, however, consistently have negatives. Not regular, but big ones. Such as the three wide open looks he gave up today, including what could have cost the game. Those plays.. he should not be making at this point in his career having this much experience with championship players and coaching staff.

Consistency is what he needs to be legit.

[PopTheGOAT]

He can give good minutes against Cleveland. He's a complete liability against GS

[cd98]

the thing is, this isn't something new.

Anderson has always been fantastic defender when he plays the 4. We've seen it this year in various other games and last year.

He's never going to make it as a 3. He's way to slow and it limits him offensively and defensively...by a significant margin. Not to mention, not a good three pointer.

i actually thought it was telling that Pop put Green on LeBron when Kawhi left for that stretch in the 4th. That said, I think you could get away with Anderson playing Durant in stretches.

[ducks]

Must hit open corner threes
Bruce did that and had a NBA career

[Kawhitstorm]

Legit NBA player under the right circumstances and Position. I've seen enough to conclude he's easily the third best defensive player, possibly second when he plays the 4...And it it doesn't look like it matters if its against scrubs or good teams.

Length really helps him a ton and he's probably the second best help defender in the team behind Leonard.

Might be good practice for the team to keep him because Lee and Gasol are getting old..

I've been begging that Pop play him at the 4 as a poor-man's Draymond Green & Pau's injury might be the best thing that happened to the team....along w/ Porker's.

[Chinook]

He can give good minutes against Cleveland. He's a complete liability against GS

There's really no difference between how he'd fit against either team.

Honestly, you might as well start him at the four for the next few weeks unless the other team plays huge.

[SAGirl]

I am going to chillax... glad he helped in this win and Thanks for the post Apalisoc... since you have no qualms giving your honest opinion on the opposite direction if you believed it. I had pointed that out also but I am way too worn out and just chilling about the topic.

I thought he had improved his shot enough to stay in the floor more this season (looked much improved as a jumpshooter over the summer) but it's obvious his hesitation got him benched. His defensive impact has been noticeable also last season. If he was going to be a 4 he needed to grow into his body. He came in a lot skinnier and weaker. Hopefully he keeps up the shooting practice.

[Kawhitstorm]

Must hit open corner threes
Bruce did that and had a NBA career

He isn't Bruce Bowen who was actually more like Danny, Kyle is a finesse version of Draymond Green who was a shitty 3 point shooter at the same point of his career as Kyle: http://bkref.com/tiny/bHwlu

[Kawhitstorm]

If he was going to be a 4 he needed to grow into his body. He came in a lot skinnier and weaker. Hopefully he keeps up the shooting practice.

He needs to get on the Diaw diet since Boris didn't have a problem filling out his body; chef Tony might also help.

[Nathan89]

He should be pf and he'd be great on a team that had great off ball players. Especially if he could get the three ball going.

[boutons_deux]

Box says 4 STL

[Kawhitstorm]

He should be pf and he'd be great on a team that had great off ball players. Especially if he could get the three ball going.

He would be very valuable against the Rockets to guard Dekker who went off tonight. David Lee got murdered by Dekker anytime he was on him this season.

[GSH]

The usual suspects doing what the usual suspects do. :lol

There's only one way the Spurs could lose that game, with .6 seconds left.

http://i63.tinypic.com/24mfgg2.jpg

[mywastedlife900]

The usual suspects doing what the usual suspects do. :lol

There's only one way the Spurs could lose that game, with .6 seconds left.

http://i63.tinypic.com/24mfgg2.jpg

Who left Robert Horry open in game 5 2002-2003? That's right stfu...

[apalisoc_9]

I am going to chillax... glad he helped in this win and Thanks for the post Apalisoc... since you have no qualms giving your honest opinion on the opposite direction if you believed it. I had pointed that out also but I am way too worn out and just chilling about the topic.

I thought he had improved his shot enough to stay in the floor more this season (looked much improved as a jumpshooter over the summer) but it's obvious his hesitation got him benched. His defensive impact has been noticeable also last season. If he was going to be a 4 he needed to grow into his body. He came in a lot skinnier and weaker. Hopefully he keeps up the shooting practice.

People hate me here because I change my opinion based on player merit. My username is because of Parker, the same player people claim I hate so much..No doubt I hated his antics the last couple of years, but it was for a reason..but I've always loved Tony.

People just hate people that have honest, genuine opinions..Someone that is man enough, to admit mistakes and change his opinion. That's me.

[100%duncan]

The usual suspects doing what the usual suspects do. :lol

There's only one way the Spurs could lose that game, with .6 seconds left.

http://i63.tinypic.com/24mfgg2.jpg

:lol

[dabom]

:lol

[Mr. Body]

Of course he is. He was supposed to be a lousy defender and isn't.

[dabom]

Of course he is. He was supposed to be a lousy defender and isn't.

He is a decent perimeter defender, but he is garbage 1vs1. Playoff teams will take advantage of that in a 7 game series.

[GSH]

People hate me here because I change my opinion based on player merit. My username is because of Parker, the same player people claim I hate so much..No doubt I hated his antics the last couple of years, but it was for a reason..but I've always loved Tony.

People just hate people that have honest, genuine opinions..Someone that is man enough, to admit mistakes and change his opinion. That's me.


Dude - I don't hate you. I disagree with you sometimes. Okay, maybe often, but that's not the point. Kyle had a very good game. He doesn't often, lately, and I question whether he can repeat. But he had a good game. Popping up a thread about him being a legit NBA player over 1 game isn't exactly top-notch, but at least you aren't starting a half dozen a day anymore. :tu

But I can say this without ANY fear of being wrong. If Love had made that last shot, and the Spurs lose in 2OT with a gassed Kawhi? You would be one of the first to be calling for Kyle's fat head on a stick. And you know that's true.

He had a good game. But that was an important game, and it all came down to .6 seconds, where he only had to do one thing. The assignment is rarely EVER as cut-and-dried as it is in that situation. And he fucking whiffed.

[elemento]

It was so funny to watch Lebron struggling like hell against him :lol

[SAGirl]

People hate me here because I change my opinion based on player merit. My username is because of Parker, the same player people claim I hate so much..No doubt I hated his antics the last couple of years, but it was for a reason..but I've always loved Tony.

People just hate people that have honest, genuine opinions..Someone that is man enough, to admit mistakes and change his opinion. That's me.
I acknowledge that now.. Just getting to know you I guess. I am relatively new and there are histories with posters here and long term schtick that I don't get bc they go way back. I dont think a few guys that have long term shticks would make a post like yours... so hats off to you. :toast

I think a few guys cling to a shtick and would rather see the team lose just bc Kyle played on it... and to troll. You are not that kind so I respect you.

[Chinook]

The usual suspects doing what the usual suspects do. :lol

There's only one way the Spurs could lose that game, with .6 seconds left.

http://i63.tinypic.com/24mfgg2.jpg

Actually, if you back up a couple of seconds, you'll see the Spurs aren't playing man-to-man, or if they are they aren't doing a great job of it. Love is not Kyle's man on that play -- Thompson is. Love is Kawhi's man. Or if they are playing zone, Kyle's the high man and Kawhi's the outside man. In either case, Leonard should have been the one to follow Love. I have no idea what Kyle was doing there. I guess it was just trying to get Kawhi to play ball-denial, and that makes sense. You don't want Irving to get any look. But in reality, he should have been the one to guard Irving while Kawhi stuck with Love.

[thekingrobert]

Danny Green?

[HarlemHeat37]

I acknowledge that now.. Just getting to know you I guess. I am relatively new and there are histories with posters here and long term schtick that I don't get bc they go way back. I dont think a few guys that have long term shticks would make a post like yours... so hats off to you. :toast

I think a few guys cling to a shtick and would rather see the team lose just bc Kyle played on it... and to troll. You are not that kind so I respect you.
There aren't many posters here that know the game more than Apo, tbh..

Some of the Kyle haters are good posters that just aren't fans of his game(like dabom, great poster), but most are just trolls..

[MaNu4Tres]

Kyle played great tonight.

Him & Aldridge were huge defensively.

[BatManu20]

KA was +19 tonight.... Helluva game from him.

[Chinook]

There aren't many posters here that know the game more than Apo, tbh..

Some of the Kyle haters are good posters that just aren't fans of his game(like dabom, great poster), but most are just trolls..

Apa does know the game. He just spends a bunch of his posts talking about OT shit.

[HarlemHeat37]

Sucks that his best position is PF, since David Lee is playing so well..

Simmons will be phased out of the rotation(like last season IMO), but I'm not sure about Anderson's fit at the 3 with Manu/Lee/Dedmon..

[rasuo214]

He's a decent small ball 4. Unfortunately for him the team is pretty loaded in the front court.

[RD2191]

Wasn't he the guy that left Korver open for the corner 3 twice? Oh yeah, that dude will be the next back to back dpoy imo

[Chinook]

Sucks that his best position is PF, since David Lee is playing so well..

Simmons will be phased out of the rotation(like last season IMO), but I'm not sure about Anderson's fit at the 3 with Manu/Lee/Dedmon..

We'll see if the top-four bigs can play in this rotation in the playoffs. Both Anderson and Bertans have cases to make for PF minutes, and both are on paper better fits.

[SD126]

Pump the brakes....he'll have the usual 15-20 game stretch where he's useless per par.

And when you let Kyle Korver shoot and make 3s.....doesn't mean crap in the end.

[SAGirl]

Actually, if you back up a couple of seconds, you'll see the Spurs aren't playing man-to-man, or if they are they aren't doing a great job of it. Love is not Kyle's man on that play -- Thompson is. Love is Kawhi's man. Or if they are playing zone, Kyle's the high man and Kawhi's the outside man. In either case, Leonard should have been the one to follow Love. I have no idea what Kyle was doing there. I guess it was just trying to get Kawhi to play ball-denial, and that makes sense. You don't want Irving to get any look. But in reality, he should have been the one to guard Irving while Kawhi stuck with Love.
Thanks for pointing that out... I also thought the play was clearly for Irving who was on fire and all Spurs thought the same... Lebron also looking in Irvings direction.. everyone seemed to be in that impression.

Kyle was late reading the play and he still made it to a contest I thought... however when a guy plays crunch time minutes things happen and give a right to question everything. Heck I questioned Manu inbounding the ball to Pau in the Suns game and his off the backboard 3.

I think when a guy plays possessions like that it's legit to discuss and question bc I do it too. There was a miscommunication but Kyle still recovered to the play.

Gkad for that miss, the win, Kawhis MVP game,,. Hoping Manu gets right, etc.

GSH won't dampen my enthusiasm.

[Seventyniner]

Actually, if you back up a couple of seconds, you'll see the Spurs aren't playing man-to-man, or if they are they aren't doing a great job of it. Love is not Kyle's man on that play -- Thompson is. Love is Kawhi's man. Or if they are playing zone, Kyle's the high man and Kawhi's the outside man. In either case, Leonard should have been the one to follow Love. I have no idea what Kyle was doing there. I guess it was just trying to get Kawhi to play ball-denial, and that makes sense. You don't want Irving to get any look. But in reality, he should have been the one to guard Irving while Kawhi stuck with Love.

I didn't read the game thread, but why was anyone guarding the inbounder with 0.6 left?

[TD 21]

Since it looks like the path, post 1st round, is going to be Rockets, Warriors, Cavaliers, Dedmon's playoff rotation spot is tenuous. It's too difficult to play four bigs against those teams and while Gasol's minutes will be reduced, he's not being dropped from the rotation.

Simmons' spot is also tenuous, but that's more so because he's the worst rotation player. With the preferred 2nd unit front line though, he's a better fit than Anderson. Neither can really shoot, but he's slightly better and at least when he turns down open shots and the paint is packed, he's quick and elusive enough to still get into the paint and finish in traffic. An Anderson-Lee-Dedmon front line is not tenable offensively, especially against elite teams in the playoffs.

[Chinook]

I didn't read the game thread, but why was anyone guarding the inbounder with 0.6 left?

To force a pass away from the basket

[apalisoc_9]

I acknowledge that now.. Just getting to know you I guess. I am relatively new and there are histories with posters here and long term schtick that I don't get bc they go way back. I dont think a few guys that have long term shticks would make a post like yours... so hats off to you. :toast

I think a few guys cling to a shtick and would rather see the team lose just bc Kyle played on it... and to troll. You are not that kind so I respect you.

I've been posting here since I was sixteen and lurking since I was a sophomore in HS..I'm now in my mid 20s. :lol

Also, just before some wrinkled poster tells you have much better the site was before....It wasn't.

The website before was filled with TIMVP takes, and roughley 90 percent of people agreeing with him because they dont play enough basketball themselves to understand the nuances of the game. Although some older posters like ManuTres, TD21, ElNono and manny (doesnt post anymore) have always contributed positive basketball takes over the years.

Imo, now...We have so much more posters that clearly understand the game and give their own genuine takes irregardless of the difference of opinion.

@Harlemheat, ManuTres, Chinook, Kawhistorm, TD21, Ditty etc..and a few others their username is escaping me right now...

but overall its a much better website now with much better content.

[Chinook]

Thanks for pointing that out... I also thought the play was clearly for Irving who was on fire and all Spurs thought the same... Lebron also looking in Irvings direction.. everyone seemed to be in that impression.

Kyle was late reading the play and he still made it to a contest I thought... however when a guy plays crunch time minutes things happen and give a right to question everything. Heck I questioned Manu inbounding the ball to Pau in the Suns game and his off the backboard 3.

I think when a guy plays possessions like that it's legit to discuss and question bc I do it too. There was a miscommunication but Kyle still recovered to the play.

Gkad for that miss, the win, Kawhis MVP game,,. Hoping Manu gets right, etc.

GSH won't dampen my enthusiasm.

GSH is correct that Kyle lost focus there. HE should have been the one to trap Curry while Kawhi moved with Love. Who cares about Thompson? So I don't now why he pointed to Kawhi. However, Leonard was also not defending correctly, so DPOY or not, it was a bad look. But Anderson didn't leave his man open for a corner three. In some ways, it's even worse than that.

[SAGirl]

There aren't many posters here that know the game more than Apo, tbh..

Some of the Kyle haters are good posters that just aren't fans of his game(like dabom, great poster), but most are just trolls..
Thanks for sharing... but I don't think dabom is in the same hemisphere as Apo... or he's just so full of emtiocons and trolling/abrasive nature that he got on my ignore list. Maybe he's mysoginist. I don't see from him posts that Apalisoc has lately made.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

At this point, I'm hoping for a Cory Joseph-like development and Kyle finally comes into his own next year.

[ElNono]

He's a great defensive player and will eventually get better on O as he grows more mature. People who don't think he's an NBA player really don't know what they're talking about.

I'm not convinced, tbh... it's not hate either, I wished him well since the season started. I was actually relatively shocked to see him play today, he's been basically playing garbage time lately. That a fairly steep fall for a guy in his 3rd season that was projected to be a fixture of the rotation at this point. He's basically only played more minutes than Bertrans, Murray and Forbes this season. On the other hand, he's played over 100 more mins than Bertrans, so he definitely has had his opportunity.

Regardless of his defensive play, it's just going to be difficult for him to stick if he doesn't develop an offensive game. At least I liked he didn't hesitate taking the 3s today (and the few mins he played in recent games), even if he didn't make them.

Murray is the kind of kid you would say "once he matures"... Kyle is 23...

Now, maybe a change of scenery would work out for him, as some people have said. Maybe a larger role on a shitty team to hone in his offensive skills. The problem is that I don't think any team would really pick him up, and his rookie scale salary can't really land anything worthwhile for the Spurs at this time.

[apalisoc_9]

I'm not convinced, tbh... it's not hate either, I wished him well since the season started. I was actually relatively shocked to see him play today, he's been basically playing garbage time lately. That a fairly steep fall for a guy in his 3rd season that was projected to be a fixture of the rotation at this point. He's basically only played more minutes than Bertrans, Murray and Forbes this season. On the other hand, he's played over 100 more mins than Bertrans, so he definitely has had his opportunity.

Regardless of his defensive play, it's just going to be difficult for him to stick if he doesn't develop an offensive game. At least I liked he didn't hesitate taking the 3s today (and the few mins he played in recent games), even if he didn't make them.

Murray is the kind of kid you would say "once he matures"... Kyle is 23...

Now, maybe a change of scenery would work out for him, as some people have said. Maybe a larger role on a shitty team to hone in his offensive skills. The problem is that I don't think any team would really pick him up, and his rookie scale salary can't really land anything worthwhile for the Spurs at this time.

He's got an offensive game, it just doesn't work as a spread player.

but the problem is, his offensive game is typically reserved for top 6 players in the team...Right now, he's just a guy that is out there.

I've seen kyle do Ok in situations where he had to create something for his team in the High Post, Low post and dribble hand offs.. it's a big man game basically.

[ElNono]

He's got an offensive game, it just doesn't work as a spread player.

but the problem is, his offensive game is typically reserved for top 6 players in the team...Right now, he's just a guy that is out there.

I've seen kyle do Ok in situations where he had to create something for his team in the High Post, Low post and dribble hand offs.. it's a big man game basically.

That herky-jerky shit gets old so quick at the NBA level, tbh...

Like somebody said, maybe this just isn't the team for him to develop an offense. The Spurs went out there and picked up 3 frontcourt guys in the offseason (Pau, Lee, Dedmon), and they just signed Joel Anthony to a 10-day.

So they're not going to put him in post situations. Honestly, I don't even think he has the build to play there at this level.

I'm rooting for the kid, I know the Spurs put 3 seasons into him, and I don't think it's a case of being lazy or malcontent. Unfortunately, not everybody makes it in this league, and one of the things he's lacking, athleticism, is a premium. That's why is not surprising that Simms played almost twice as many mins than him at this point, even though I would agree that the player with the better "smarts" is Kyle.

[SAGirl]

I've been posting here since I was sixteen and lurking since I was a sophomore in HS..I'm now in my mid 20s. :lol

Also, just before some wrinkled poster tells you have much better the site was before....It wasn't.

The website before was filled with TIMVP takes, and roughley 90 percent of people agreeing with him because they dont play enough basketball themselves to understand the nuances of the game. Although some older posters like ManuTres (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3857), TD21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908), ElNono (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8054) and manny (doesnt post anymore) have always contributed positive basketball takes over the years.

Imo, now...We have so much more posters that clearly understand the game and give their own genuine takes irregardless of the difference of opinion.

@Harlemheat, ManuTres (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3857), Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), Kawhi (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=44283)storm, TD21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908), Ditty (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14934) etc..and a few others their username is escaping me right now...

but overall its a much better website now with much better content.
I like the grades. Though I know you prefer to be spontaneous but many guys who don't post often have contributed and they have been enjoyable... and the guys with agenda.. outside of the agenda they are still enjoyable to read. Obviously ymthe vest aspect is the spontaneity... for example I am terrible with trades and such bc I just don't watch other teams enough but they are usually (if not ridiculous) interesting.

[MaNu4Tres]

I've been posting here since I was sixteen and lurking since I was a sophomore in HS..I'm now in my mid 20s. :lol

Also, just before some wrinkled poster tells you have much better the site was before....It wasn't.

The website before was filled with TIMVP takes, and roughley 90 percent of people agreeing with him because they dont play enough basketball themselves to understand the nuances of the game. Although some older posters like ManuTres, TD21, ElNono and manny (doesnt post anymore) have always contributed positive basketball takes over the years.

Imo, now...We have so much more posters that clearly understand the game and give their own genuine takes irregardless of the difference of opinion.

@Harlemheat, ManuTres, Chinook, Kawhistorm, TD21, Ditty etc..and a few others their username is escaping me right now...

but overall its a much better website now with much better content.

Time flies.

Making me feel like an old 31 yr old lol.

I agree 100% though. A lot of new blood has been great for the site in recent years. Theres great debates and high level takes. Whether we agree or disagree, the roots of the take come from a knowledgeable place -- which is refreshing.

[Spurtacular]

Another kneejerk thread by a safe space poster.

[Spurtacular]

I'm not convinced, tbh... it's not hate either, I wished him well since the season started. I was actually relatively shocked to see him play today, he's been basically playing garbage time lately. That a fairly steep fall for a guy in his 3rd season that was projected to be a fixture of the rotation at this point. He's basically only played more minutes than Bertrans, Murray and Forbes this season. On the other hand, he's played over 100 more mins than Bertrans, so he definitely has had his opportunity.

Regardless of his defensive play, it's just going to be difficult for him to stick if he doesn't develop an offensive game. At least I liked he didn't hesitate taking the 3s today (and the few mins he played in recent games), even if he didn't make them.

Murray is the kind of kid you would say "once he matures"... Kyle is 23...

Now, maybe a change of scenery would work out for him, as some people have said. Maybe a larger role on a shitty team to hone in his offensive skills. The problem is that I don't think any team would really pick him up, and his rookie scale salary can't really land anything worthwhile for the Spurs at this time.

I've said it multiple times that Kyle's real worth will depend upon his ability to be a consistent outside shooter / perform consistent moves. If he does this, he'll play with confidence and be a contributor in all facets. But there's been all too many games where he has zero confidence and his game unsurprisingly has been utter sh**. I'm frankly disappointed that he didn't seem to put the work in during the off-season. He should've came into this season with the corner three down pat. He literally passes up on wide open looks on that shot though.

[MaNu4Tres]

Kyle has had a terrible junior year, but that can be attributed to playing too much SF -- which isnt the best position for him.

Kyle is best at the PF spot.

He has the size, length and can move his feet well -- which is huge for switching in PnRs or switching on back door cuts or down screens. Its an edge the Spurs have when he plays the small ball PF or PF defensively -- since most offense in todays NBA is initiated from the PnR or from perimeter. On top of that, hes a solid rebounder, and just about every team doesnt have a PF that can execute efficiently from the low block in the long run -- so there shouldnt be a concern regarding Kyles post defense against physical PFs.

Offensively, Kyle can actually utilize his strengths more effectively since the players guarding him are typically slower/ not as athletic. He can also utilize his true skills as the secondary play maker if hes the PnR roller -- setting the screen, receiving a pocket pass around FT line after the ball handler is hedged. In this position, Kyle would have the ball in his hands to make a play in a 4 on 3 situation that lasts about 3 seconds til the hedger recovers. So much better than just being parked at the 3 point line as he would as a back up wing, helping the defense play 5 on 4 -- since most teams just ignore him or cheat over closer to the strong side of the play.

Spurs will have to go small in the playoffs against the best teams ( GS, CLE, HOU ) and thats where I think Bertans and Kyle will be more valuable than Gasol.

[YGWHI]

It was so funny to watch Lebron struggling like hell against him :lol

Agree. I loved when Kyle forced LBJ TO's :tu

[Arcadian]

I feel much better about him after tonight. I even gave him some minutes in 2K17 online :lol (I just rattled off 5 straight wins against Cavs users, too :lol)

[Hoops Czar]

He's a great defensive player and will eventually get better on O as he grows more mature. People who don't think he's an NBA player really don't know what they're talking about.

Great defenders don't lose sight of their man for a game tying three in the corner with .6 seconds left on the clock in overtime. He was burned by Irving on a three ball off a pass from Lebron earlier in the game as well.

[TrainOfThought5]

I feel much better about him after tonight. I even gave him some minutes in 2K17 online :lol (I just rattled off 5 straight wins against Cavs users, too :lol)

Whats your strategy?

[skulls138]

When the game was going to shit (the second time) he was instrumental in sparking a come back, him and Murray.

I just love the arrogance by Lebron towards Kyle when Kyle first entered the game. Had that look like he was going to own Kyle. If only looks counted as points :lmao

[John Petrucci]

That one steal on James that led to fast break was so baller. He can have surprisingly quick hands for such a slow dude.

[Arcadian]

Whats your strategy?

I try to play a dynamic game. Lots of passing around the horn, find the open man, cutters to the basket, take what the defense gives me, open jumpers in the midrange as opponents tend to ignore those areas on defense. I use icon passing a lot. Run lots of pick-and-rolls (hold L1), and sometimes change to pick-and-pop (hold L1 + tap R1). Frequently run postups for Leonard and Aldridge.

I'm also pretty good on defense. The key is to play fundamentally sound - top priority is to stay in front of your man, don't reach in, crown him by holding L2, try to anticipate his movements, give him space if he's trying to change directions on you, and take control of your center frequently, hovering in the paint so you don't give up easy dunks (but make sure you dip out to avoid 3 second violations). I happen to be good at blocking shots, but that requires good timing reflexes. But you can't be overly aggressive, as many players will pump fake repeatedly until you jump. Stand your ground until you really think they're gonna shoot. (Just by holding L2, you'll automatically go into a shot-contest animation, but it rarely fouls.)

Don't always try to force a break and push the tempo. Play some half court offense, lull them into thinking you're slow, and then take advantage of bad passes to steal it and score quickly.

Always box out on attempted jumpers by holding L2, but also be sure and step in front of the nearest big player, and time your jump properly to rebound.

Mix up your rotation. I tried Anderson at 4 tonight and it worked surprisingly well. Try to stagger Leonard and Aldridge's minutes, so you always have an iso player on the floor.

[apalisoc_9]

I try to play a dynamic game. Lots of passing around the horn, find the open man, cutters to the basket, take what the defense gives me, open jumpers in the midrange as opponents tend to ignore those areas on defense. I use icon passing a lot. Run lots of pick-and-rolls (hold L1), and sometimes change to pick-and-pop (hold L1 + tap R1). Frequently run postups for Leonard and Aldridge.

I'm also pretty good on defense. The key is to play fundamentally sound - top priority is to stay in front of your man, don't reach in, crown him by holding L2, try to anticipate his movements, give him space if he's trying to change directions on you, and take control of your center frequently, hovering in the paint so you don't give up easy dunks (but make sure you dip out to avoid 3 second violations). I happen to be good at blocking shots, but that requires good timing reflexes. But you can't be overly aggressive, as many players will pump fake repeatedly until you jump. Stand your ground until you really think they're gonna shoot. (Just by holding L2, you'll automatically go into a shot-contest animation, but it rarely fouls.)

Don't always try to force a break and push the tempo. Play some half court offense, lull them into thinking you're slow, and then take advantage of bad passes to steal it and score quickly.

Always box out on attempted jumpers by holding L2, but also be sure and step in front of the nearest big player, and time your jump properly to rebound.

Mix up your rotation. I tried Anderson at 4 tonight and it worked surprisingly well. Try to stagger Leonard and Aldridge's minutes, so you always have an iso player on the floor.

I'm not as good as you are, but Post play in this game is almost unstopabble one on one vs CPU and human..that jump hook always gets aldridge his 20 points on ny team in like 12 shots or something.

Also, Leonard off ball is dynamite. If you're playing with human and they go one on one defense..Porker can generate some of the cleanest look for me...

I remeber a few weeks ago, some dude rage quit on me. Aldridge was 6-6 and Leonard was 9-11..something :lmao..

Kept in saying the game is BS cause I couldnt miss..The guy just refuse to change his defense. His fault. Got so many wide open shots with my two best offensive players.

[will_spurs]

Now, maybe a change of scenery would work out for him, as some people have said. Maybe a larger role on a shitty team to hone in his offensive skills.

I'm not sure that would help. He seems to be at his best when playing a limited, clearly defined role. It's when he was playing with the big guys as a starter that he seemed lost. I feel he's the kind of player from who you can get either D or O (well, limited O) or passing... but if you start asking for everything then you get nothing. That's why he's not comparable at all to Diaw who was comfortable with doing a bit of everything here and there nd was smart enough to know when he had to be a facilitator, a scorer, a defender.

Hopefully the game against the Cavs will be a step in the right direction in terms of usage and Pop will stop asking too much from him.

[CGD]

What I liked about him in the Cavs game mor so than his good D was that he didn't hesitate to take the 3pt shot. I wasn't even that bothered that he missed all of them. He just needs to let it fly. I hope DJ's Confidence on offense rubs off on him.

[Chinook]

Great defenders don't lose sight of their man for a game tying three in the corner with .6 seconds left on the clock in overtime. He was burned by Irving on a three ball off a pass from Lebron earlier in the game as well.

That wasn't his man FFS. And it was Korver who burned him (twice), not Irving.

[Fireball]

we may need him to be against GS ... someone has to defend Durant when Kawhi and Green are on the Splash Brothers

[cd021]

He's been an NBA-caliber player already due to his defensive prowess, tbh..there are players in the NBA that have made a living and are currently starters as defense-first players with no offensive ability(Mbah a Moute)..

Developing an offensive niche is the next step if he's going to become an ideal rotation player..I still don't think he will be able to do it here with Manu running the bench unit, but he will get a shot as Simmons is phased out of the rotation IMO(like last season)..

Impressed by his D but was an non factor on offense. He needs that corner 3 because he may never be able to run the offense, something he looks more comfortable doing than spotting up.
Mills-Murray-Bertans-Anderson-Lee/Dedmon may end up being the bench unit next season, it's not be the most experienced unit but it does have potential upside.

[cd021]

That wasn't his man FFS. And it was Korver who burned him (twice), not Irving.

When I watched the replay of the final play, I thought that it was Kawhi who was supposed to switch. Kawhi had been switching off on to Love for most of the second half, Anderson still made a great effort at contesting the shot.Love must have missed 5 wide open 3's along with Korver missed a wide open left corner 3, there's some luck involved with this win as well as some pretty good defense overall.

[Chinook]

When I watched the replay of the final play, I thought that it was Kawhi who was supposed to switch. Kawhi had been switching off on to Love for most of the second half, Anderson still made a great effort at contesting the shot.Love must have missed 5 wide open 3's along with Korver missed a wide open left corner 3, there's some luck involved with this win as well as some pretty good defense overall.

If you look at the set-up of the D before the inbounds, you can see that Kawhi is on Love and Kyle is on Thompson (insofar as anyone is on anyone else). The issue is that for some reason, both Kyle and Kawhi thought Leonard was supposed to trap Irving. That should have been Kyle. You can see that by the way they were standing. However, Kawhi jumped out on Irving, leaving Kyle standing there pointing why Love got free in the corner. For such a broken coverage, it's extremely lucky that Anderson got back to contest at all. But he was confused just as much as Leonard was.

[dabom]

Looks like green should have followed love. Kawhi was zoning up the top of the key for Irving. :lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

It was so funny to watch Lebron struggling like hell against him :lol

LeBitch also struggled against Diaw 1.0 in 2013:

PE5auU7uvwU

[TD 21]

Kyle has had a terrible junior year, but that can be attributed to playing too much SF -- which isnt the best position for him.

Kyle is best at the PF spot.

He has the size, length and can move his feet well -- which is huge for switching in PnRs or switching on back door cuts or down screens. Its an edge the Spurs have when he plays the small ball PF or PF defensively -- since most offense in todays NBA is initiated from the PnR or from perimeter. On top of that, hes a solid rebounder, and just about every team doesnt have a PF that can execute efficiently from the low block in the long run -- so there shouldnt be a concern regarding Kyles post defense against physical PFs.

Offensively, Kyle can actually utilize his strengths more effectively since the players guarding him are typically slower/ not as athletic. He can also utilize his true skills as the secondary play maker if hes the PnR roller -- setting the screen, receiving a pocket pass around FT line after the ball handler is hedged. In this position, Kyle would have the ball in his hands to make a play in a 4 on 3 situation that lasts about 3 seconds til the hedger recovers. So much better than just being parked at the 3 point line as he would as a back up wing, helping the defense play 5 on 4 -- since most teams just ignore him or cheat over closer to the strong side of the play.

Spurs will have to go small in the playoffs against the best teams ( GS, CLE, HOU ) and thats where I think Bertans and Kyle will be more valuable than Gasol.

I think there's a good chance, that Anderson and Bertans are rotation players next season. They're ideal compliments to one another, since the former can provide the defensive rebounding that the latter can't and the latter can provide the spacing that the former can't.

Since Bertans is a more versatile shooter than the typical stretch four and has a quick release, it wouldn't surprise me if teams have a wing defend him and hide their power forward on Anderson. Unless it's a mobile four, that's when Anderson's ability to create for himself should come into play.

He'll technically be the small forward because that's who he'll be guarding, but he'll essentially be playing power forward offensively.

[Hoops Czar]

That wasn't his man FFS. And it was Korver who burned him (twice), not Irving.

It was a simple slip screen. Kyle should have made the switch but instead, let Love free himself for an open three in the corner. Kawhi couldn't because he was draped all over Irving. Great defenders have to be self aware. Kyle has his moments but he's nowhere near great because he has too many mental lapses on the court.

[313]

Not sold on that yet... today he had a good defensive game though

[Chinook]

It was a simple slip screen. Kyle should have made the switch but instead, let Love free himself for an open three in the corner. Kawhi couldn't because he was draped all over Irving. Great defenders have to be self aware. Kyle has his moments but he's nowhere near great because he has too many mental lapses on the court.

No. Kyle's man was Thompson. Anderson was supposed to trap, not Kawhi.

[sasaint]

No. Kyle's man was Thompson. Anderson was supposed to trap, not Kawhi.

In the post-game interview, Kawhi sounded as if it were his blown coverage, although he didn't actually say so.

[Hoops Czar]

No. Kyle's man was Thompson. Anderson was supposed to trap, not Kawhi.

The idea was to guard the perimeter and that's what he was doing. Why would you put a great defender on the only non threat to tie the game? Danny green was originally guarding Love. When Irving went to the top of the key, Green went to help Kawhi on the trap leaving Kyle to switch onto Love. So which great defender made the mistake? Green or Kyle?

[hsxvvd]

Good. Let's trade him then. If he's so legit, I'm sure teams are lighting up the phones.

[hsxvvd]

we may need him to be against GS ... someone has to defend Durant when Kawhi and Green are on the Splash Brothers

Then we should quit now.

[Brazil]

:lol like always after one good game... cannot wait next 15 crappy ones with the 2 pts 1 reb and 1 assist in 17 mn

[Nathan89]

we may need him to be against GS ... someone has to defend Durant when Kawhi and Green are on the Splash Brothers

The only way to guard Curry and Klay is to switch everything so I don't know what the plans are. If Kyle is in the plans then he should be playing more in the regular season in some smaller lineups.

[Chinook]

The idea was to guard the perimeter and that's what he was doing. Why would you put a great defender on the only non threat to tie the game? Danny green was originally guarding Love. When Irving went to the top of the key, Green went to help Kawhi on the trap leaving Kyle to switch onto Love. So which great defender made the mistake? Green or Kyle?

Green was guarding Irving, Kawhi Love, Kyle, Thompson. Irving cut to the ball with Green trailing. The Spurs clearly planned to trap off Thompson, but instead of doing that, Kawhi jumped out. Kyle was supposed to do that, but for some reason he also thought Kawhi was supposed to do that. So Kawhi's man leaked to the corner. It's extremely obvious who's covering who if you watch the whole pre-inbounds movement and not just a still.

[SAGirl]

In the post-game interview, Kawhi sounded as if it were his blown coverage, although he didn't actually say so.
Yes... and Pop after the game was still talking to the team 20 minutes about the play per the media ElNono shared. I doubt just the one guy messed up... It's possible Pop emphasized the discussion bc it was several guys who didn't execute the coverages Pop wanted. It's possible both Kawhi and Kyle were to blame...

I agree with Chinook that Kawhi was guarding Love and decided to trap when that was not his role prompting a confusion and a switch rotation that wasn't automatic. If Kawhi trapped and it wasn't his role Kyle needed to switch but it wasn't automatic bc maybe they weren't going to switch or trap. Were they supposed to not trap at all? Did Irving evade Danny prompting all of them to blow all their coverages?

I thought Kyle still realized the situation and made it to a contest but Pop emphasizing the breakdown so much means to me that it was on more than just the one guy who made it to a close out at the end. There was more than one defensive problem in the play I think.

Still I enjoyed this game and win very much.

[Chinook]

https://youtu.be/nIeST5J0gbI?t=552

As I said above, there are two possibilities for what kind of D the Spurs were playing: man or zone. Either case would have resulted in Kawhi having the responsibility for Love there.

In man it was Simmons > Shumpert, Green > Irving, LMA > James, Kawhi > Love, Anderson > Thompson. In that case, Kawhi was supposed to not help on Irving, and indeed, the way he's oriented on the play suggests that he wasn't supposed to do that. Kyle is set up to be between Irving and the basket, and Kawhi was between Love and basket until Kevin cut.

If it was zone, Kawhi was the outside man and Kyle was the top man. So if Irving ran out of Green's zone, he was running into Anderson's, not Leonard's. Love cutting to the corner was running into Kawhi's zone. So he should have been the one to go, and Anderson should have stayed.

Either way, Kyle was where he was supposed to be. The issue is that he pointed to Leonard to cover Irving, and that made no sense. Only possible explanation is that they didn't know Love had cut and were playing zone, in which case, Kyrie would be the outside man and Kawhi's responsibility.

[Chinook]

Were they supposed to not trap at all? Did Irving evade Danny prompting all of them to blow all their coverages?

I can guarantee you that Pop told his guys that Kyrie wasn't going to get the ball under any circumstances. You can see Green looking and Irving but not chasing him too fast, which to me signifies bracket coverage. They were worried about a stunt and fade. Had Green been close to Irving, all Lebron would have needed was a lob over the top. But the way the Cavs reacted, it seems like Irving was their play and Lebron just made a great play to get it to Love. Kyle does deserve credit, because he did pressure the attempt.

[Hoops Czar]

Green was guarding Irving, Kawhi Love, Kyle, Thompson. Irving cut to the ball with Green trailing. The Spurs clearly planned to trap off Thompson, but instead of doing that, Kawhi jumped out. Kyle was supposed to do that, but for some reason he also thought Kawhi was supposed to do that. So Kawhi's man leaked to the corner. It's extremely obvious who's covering who if you watch the whole pre-inbounds movement and not just a still.

That nigga must be stupider than I thought. How do you mistake Kevin Love fore Kyrie Irving unless he wasn't guarding Kyrie? Like I said above, they weren't playing man to man. They were guarding the perimeter against the three point shot. Danny Green started off guarding love (He wasn't even looking at Kyrie). When Kevin made the slip, it was up to Kyle or Kawhi to track him down. As a matter of fact, Once Love made the slip, Green was out of the play altogether. There was some obvious miscommunication but, Leonard took Kyrie at the last second and nobody took Kevin Love resulting in a quality shot from the corner. It's possible Kawhi could have made the mistake of not covering Love but, Chinook, unless you were in that huddle, you know about as much as I do as to who was suppose to cover who. However, from my perspective, it makes more sense to put your best defender on the opposing team's best offensive threat. As for the point by Kyle... That could have been him saying Oh shit, there goes my man.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w374/murpjf88/ezgif.com-video-to-gif_zpsdogunifm.gif (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/murpjf88/media/ezgif.com-video-to-gif_zpsdogunifm.gif.html)

[DeRozan m8]

This has all gotta be sarcasm surely

He's absolute trash

[SAGirl]

That nigga must be stupider than I thought. How do you mistake Kevin Love fore Kyrie Irving unless he wasn't guarding Kyrie? Like I said above, they weren't playing man to man. They were guarding the perimeter against the three point shot. Danny Green started off guarding love (He wasn't even looking at Kyrie). When Kevin made the slip, it was up to Kyle or Kawhi to track him down. As a matter of fact, Once Love made the slip, Green was out of the play altogether. There was some obvious miscommunication but, Leonard took Kyrie at the last second and nobody took Kevin Love resulting in a quality shot from the corner. It's possible Kawhi could have made the mistake of not covering Love but, Chinook, unless you were in that huddle, you know about as much as I do as to who was suppose to cover who. However, from my perspective, it makes more sense to put your best defender on the opposing team's best offensive threat. As for the point by Kyle... That could have been him saying Oh shit, there goes my man.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w374/murpjf88/ezgif.com-video-to-gif_zpsdogunifm.gif (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/murpjf88/media/ezgif.com-video-to-gif_zpsdogunifm.gif.html)
Frankly the Spurs defend as a team and Kawhi statement as well as Pop talking so much about it tell me that was much more than just bad fathead off to the doghouse you go... far too easy be it to blame the only guy who did realize the slip by Love and made a contest. As I said it doesn't seem clear that was his coverage bc they appeared to zone and Kyle had to completely leave his zone to go in the opposite direction of where he was starting standing on the play... and it made sense that Kawhi was going to guard the corner based on where he stood to start the play and the fact he appeared to be zoning that side of the court...

[Chinook]

That nigga must be stupider than I thought. How do you mistake Kevin Love fore Kyrie Irving unless he wasn't guarding Kyrie? Like I said above, they weren't playing man to man. They were guarding the perimeter against the three point shot. Danny Green started off guarding love (He wasn't even looking at Kyrie). When Kevin made the slip, it was up to Kyle or Kawhi to track him down. As a matter of fact, Once Love made the slip, Green was out of the play altogether. There was some obvious miscommunication but, Leonard took Kyrie at the last second and nobody took Kevin Love resulting in a quality shot from the corner. It's possible Kawhi could have made the mistake of not covering Love but, Chinook, unless you were in that huddle, you know about as much as I do as to who was suppose to cover who. However, from my perspective, it makes more sense to put your best defender on the opposing team's best offensive threat. As for the point by Kyle... That could have been him saying Oh shit, there goes my man.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w374/murpjf88/ezgif.com-video-to-gif_zpsdogunifm.gif (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/murpjf88/media/ezgif.com-video-to-gif_zpsdogunifm.gif.html)

You don't defend a quick shot like you defend an iso possession. Even the best defenders will give up a look if they stay hyper focused on their men. All it takes is a good cut to get space when you don't have to worry about dribbling.

It does seem like the zone theory is more likely than the man one, though, seeing how Green and Simmons are passing men off. If that's the case, then it definitely was Kawhi's outside rotation. If they wanted Anderson to cover the corner, he would have been on the other side of Kawhi to start. Otherwise, you are setting up the slowest player on the floor to run the longest distance (which he did and seemingly blocked Love's shot).

I do really appreciate the gif, though, as it does a much better job of showing the play than a still would. You can definitely see that Anderson didn't have Love in man. Even if he was supposed to pick him up, he was also supposed to drop him off to Kawhi and take Irving. Actually, looking at it in motion repeatedly makes it seem less like Anderson was pointing to Leonard and more like he was getting an arm up to Irving, which is something everyone else was doing on the play as well. It seems now like he was going to take Irving, saw Kawhi out of position, went like "Oh shit" ran to Love, and blocked his three-point attempt to seal the win.

[ElNono]

Kiwi said it postgame, miscommunication... they should've been assertive, one of them should've told the other "Go with him" and follow Love, instead they both jumped into Irving...

[BillMc]

You don't defend a quick shot like you defend an iso possession. Even the best defenders will give up a look if they stay hyper focused on their men. All it takes is a good cut to get space when you don't have to worry about dribbling.

It does seem like the zone theory is more likely than the man one, though, seeing how Green and Simmons are passing men off. If that's the case, then it definitely was Kawhi's outside rotation. If they wanted Anderson to cover the corner, he would have been on the other side of Kawhi to start. Otherwise, you are setting up the slowest player on the floor to run the longest distance (which he did and seemingly blocked Love's shot).

I do really appreciate the gif, though, as it does a much better job of showing the play than a still would. You can definitely see that Anderson didn't have Love in man. Even if he was supposed to pick him up, he was also supposed to drop him off to Kawhi and take Irving. Actually, looking at it in motion repeatedly makes it seem less like Anderson was pointing to Leonard and more like he was getting an arm up to Irving, which is something everyone else was doing on the play as well. It seems now like he was going to take Irving, saw Kawhi out of position, went like "Oh shit" ran to Love, and blocked his three-point attempt to seal the win.

I have no idea if Kyle screwed up or did a heroic cover for Kawhi's error, but just for the record in the postgame interview Love said the shot was not blocked and he got it off cleanly.

[Chinook]

I have no idea if Kyle screwed up or did a heroic cover for Kawhi's error, but just for the record in the postgame interview Love said the shot was not blocked and he got it off cleanly.

Thanks for the tidbit, Bill. Love would know a lot better than I would. Still looked like a solid contest.

There's a lot going on when trying to defend this play. The Spurs and Cavs were both on the far side, because it takes significantly longer to catch, turn and shoot than to just catch and shoot. You can sort of see on the gif that Love got an extra quarter of a second to get his shot off. That's the issue with having to inbound the ball from that angle.

Does anyone else find it odd that Korver wasn't in for that play? I mean, Thompson did absolutely nothing on that play. Korver would have been so much more useful.

[UZER]

That was actually a well designed play. Both Kyle and kawhi thought love was going to set a pick for Kyrie which is why the jumped to kyrie, but love just slipped it.

It was great misdirection.

[Chinook]

That was actually a well designed play. Both Kyle and kawhi thought love was going to set a pick for Kyrie which is why the jumped to kyrie, but love just slipped it.

It was great misdirection.

I'll admit, it was much better than that shitty Hammer play.

[daledondale]

Thank god Love is not clutch.

[Blake]

He's a legit NBA player because he's playing in the NBA.

He'll never be an all star tho. .. .....the only question is will he ever be a starter/end of game closer

[UZER]

I'll admit, it was much better than that shitty Hammer play.

Also LeBron did a great job of not giving Love away by looking his way until the very last second when he passed him the ball.

[ElNono]

Gonna bump this, because, regardless of the fact it was the shitty Nets, he did some stuff that we talked about him needing to do. He had some nice cuts off the ball to the basket, and again, no hesitation shooting the 3 ball.

I think if he keeps doing stuff like that, it's going to earn him more minutes.

[HarlemHeat37]

He was a defensive monster again tonight, tbh(although the Nets barely have any NBA talent)..

[SpurPadre]

LOL, dude gets 14 points against one of the worst pro basketball teams in the world and y'all going crazy for it!

[midnightpulp]

Can't draw too much from anything tonight. Anderson is a known beast against D-League and Summer League level talent. Hopefully it's a sign of things to come, though. He did look good against Cleveland.

[-21-]

People hate me here because I change my opinion based on player merit. My username is because of Parker, the same player people claim I hate so much..No doubt I hated his antics the last couple of years, but it was for a reason..but I've always loved Tony.

People just hate people that have honest, genuine opinions..Someone that is man enough, to admit mistakes and change his opinion. That's me.

How so?

[SAGirl]

Him shooting without hesitation is important no matter the competition though Mid... that is what ELNono pointed out and I agree. He's improved his shot enough that he should have been shooting more since the season started (and Pop started the preseason proclaiming how he deserved to play ... among other things bc his shot had improved). He got himself benched but I guess we are seeing what Pop saw in practices that made him say that. He probably will continue to need to be pushed even by teammates bc he had been playing like a guy who couldn't shoot at all.

[r0drig0lac]

His defensive talent is undeniable

[r0drig0lac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzzxtWU41r8

[skulls138]

Keep it up Kyle

[UZER]

We need a diaw 2.0

[Blake]

It's so weird watching him move at pancake syrup speed and yet get an easy layup

[playbonner15]

Gonna bump this, because, regardless of the fact it was the shitty Nets, he did some stuff that we talked about him needing to do. He had some nice cuts off the ball to the basket, and again, no hesitation shooting the 3 ball.

I think if he keeps doing stuff like that, it's going to earn him more minutes.


It's so weird watching him move at pancake syrup speed and yet get an easy layup

those drives to the basket though. Seems liked he was warping time :lol. Must be frustrating for fans of other teams to see someone that slow get to the basket uncontested lmao

[picnroll]

Surprisingly Anderson stays in front of his man much better than a lot of more athletic players like Bertans. He has great anticipation reading his man.

[GSH]

Kyle's best play last night (Brooklyn), IMO, was one that didn't even succeed. In the third quarter, he had just made his second layup, and went loafing back up the court to play defense. Then he snapped around and aalllmost stole the inbounds pass. If he gets that ball and takes it for another layup, the game is over. It was over anyway, because Brooklyn isn't good. But plays like that, at the right time, can take the heart out of even a good team.

Robert Horry had a great sense of "the moment". Manu has always had a sense of the moment. That last play in Cleveland was just the opposite, because it wasn't just another play, in just another game. If the Spurs give their best effort, and still come up just short, it sends a totally different message if the Spurs do wind up playing Cleveland in the Finals. The Spurs pissed off an early season win like that against Memphis years ago, and I've always been convinced that it was their downfall that year. The Grizzlies were dejected and ready for a knockout blow, and instead the Spurs took their foot off the gas and got sloppy. The Griz saw a crack of daylight, and started putting out extra effort. In the end, they left with the belief that they COULD beat the Spurs, if they pushed themselves. Before the end of that game, they didn't believe it, because the Spurs had dominated them. I know Memphis had the right personnel to match up against the Spurs. But if they don't believe that they are better, they don't play as hard. Some regular season games really do matter.

Kyle has had two good games in a row, and I liked seeing him hustle the way he did in Brooklyn. The play in Cleveland didn't cost them, and hopefully he learned something.

[Chinook]

Surprisingly Anderson stays in front of his man much better than a lot of more athletic players like Bertans. He has great anticipation reading his man.

Bertans has less mobility than Anderson due to the knee injuries. Kyle is a good defender with a well-developed knowledge of how to use whatever athleticism he has along with his elite length. That makes up for more than people realize.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Surprisingly Anderson stays in front of his man much better than a lot of more athletic players like Bertans. He has great anticipation reading his man.

I noticed that last night too, pretty solid defensive effort from him these past couple games. It's obvious he's made it a point to improve.

[Blake]

Bertans has less mobility than Anderson due to the knee injuries.

No I don't think so

Let me know when you see kyle do this:

GxprpSbiWq0

[Chinook]

No I don't think so

Let me know when you see kyle do this:

GxprpSbiWq0

Scores 21 points? Make a whole bunch of threes? No one was talking about those. Defend on the perimeter? Many more examples of that.

General athleticism and lateral mobility aren't the same things.

[Phenomanul]

Kyle relies on defensive positioning and improved defensive instincts (anticipation of the play before it happens / anticipation of where and how a rebound will come off of the rim, etc...) - cause we all know his athleticism is molasses slow...

[DAF86]

He looks elite on defense outthere, if he could only develop that 3pt shot.

[bklynspursfan]

No I don't think so

Let me know when you see kyle do this:

GxprpSbiWq0

I don't know if this video shows why, but I agree. I don't think Anderson has the mobility Bertans does. Even with his knee injuries he still slides his feet well and has recovered nicely if his man beats him.

Anderson probably uses his length better, but guys drive by him and at that point it's relying on help.

He's just not as smart a defender yet, and as a rookie it's not too surprising

[picnroll]

Bertans has a small amount of Boban disease. He can't back up well when someone comes at him, particularly back up and pivot. Don't think that has anything to do with his ACL.

[SAGirl]

I don't know if this video shows why, but I agree. I don't think Anderson has the mobility Bertans does. Even with his knee injuries he still slides his feet well and has recovered nicely if his man beats him.

Anderson probably uses his length better, but guys drive by him and at that point it's relying on help.

He's just not as smart a defender yet, and as a rookie it's not too surprising
Anderson has better instincts for the game on defense. It's not about mobility.

[spurraider21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5KjWxJN1iM

[SAGirl]

Bertans has a small amount of Boban disease. He can't back up well when someone comes at him, particularly back up and pivot. Don't think that has anything to do with his ACL.
I don't know why, but he keeps bouncing on his feet on defense and gets blown by bc he bounces one way his man goes another, or he just keeps giving room until he's all the way in the paint at which point guys get layups or draw fouls on him. He doesn't strip guys like Kyle does, nor does he play a passing lane to deflect a pass like Kyle. He's not disruptive, doesn't rebound as he should, etc.

He's probably still learning to play D the way Pop wants him to. His athleticism helps for blocking shots and I think he can be a better system defender than he is, once he understands the NBA game, but it helps a lot to anticipate a play and he doesn't have good instincts there.

Kyle just doesn't get enough credit for being a good defender and hAving good instincts for the game. He was one last season too and has started games and competed against starters without being a sieve.

[itzsoweezee]

He's a very good defender, a very good passer, and a good rebounder. If he can shoot the three with some consistency, he can definitely be a legit four in this league.

[picnroll]

Bertans also has fairly short arms unlike Anderson.

[Blake]

General athleticism and lateral mobility aren't the same things.

Lol sure.

[Blake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5KjWxJN1iM

Kyles lateral mobility there is unnatural

[r0drig0lac]

I don't know if this video shows why, but I agree. I don't think Anderson has the mobility Bertans does. Even with his knee injuries he still slides his feet well and has recovered nicely if his man beats him.

Anderson probably uses his length better, but guys drive by him and at that point it's relying on help.

He's just not as smart a defender yet, and as a rookie it's not too surprising

and you're right, though Kyle is a very smart defender with his limitations

[Chinook]

Lol sure.

It's actually kind of surprising that you're taking such an arrogant approach against something that is pretty self-evident. But it's also surprising to see you up here trying to talk basketball.

[Blake]

It's actually kind of surprising that you're taking such an arrogant approach against something that is pretty self-evident. But it's also surprising to see you up here trying to talk basketball.

It's self evident that Bertans is more mobile than Kyle. The YouTube clip shows Bertans exploding to the rim around his man.

You hugging Kyle's nuts is unsurprising

[Chinook]

It's self evident that Bertans is more mobile than Kyle. The YouTube clip shows Bertans exploding to the rim around his man.

You hugging Kyle's nuts is unsurprising

Tiago Splitter didn't explode anywhere and had elite mobility defensively. It doesn't shock me that you don't know that, seeing as you really don't post on the Spurs board too often. Jumping high, running fast, moving your feet well side to side. These are different things, and they all use different muscle groupings and ligaments. Tearing an ACL affects lateral moving more than anything else.

[bklynspursfan]

Anderson has better instincts for the game on defense. It's not about mobility.

I alluded to that already tho with the not as smart a defender comment... I was responding to someone who said Anderson had better mobility than Bertans...

[SAGirl]

I said that already tho. I was responding to someone who said Anderson had better mobility than Bertans.
Oh Roger that!
It gets though to follow who said what...

[bklynspursfan]

Oh Roger that!
It gets though to follow who said what...

Yea. It's tough on here :)

[dabom]

Fathead is trash 1v1. 3 years now of watching him. Someone tell me I'm wrong. :lol

That's prime for any playoff guard to switch on him and blow by him. :lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

Surprisingly Anderson stays in front of his man much better than a lot of more athletic players like Bertans. He has great anticipation reading his man.

Shane Battier wasn't the quickest or most athletic dude but he had excellent footwork/positioning & knew how to play angles. Kyle is a similar type of player except he's longer.

[picnroll]

Shane Battier wasn't the quickest or most athletic dude but he had excellent footwork/positioning & knew how to play angles. Kyle is a similar type of player except he's longer.
Getting blocks from behind on guys that have beaten him is one of his prime weapons.

[Blake]

Tiago Splitter didn't explode anywhere and had elite mobility defensively. It doesn't shock me that you don't know that, seeing as you really don't post on the Spurs board too often. Jumping high, running fast, moving your feet well side to side. These are different things, and they all use different muscle groupings and ligaments. Tearing an ACL affects lateral moving more than anything else.

Lol wgaf about Splitter. We're comparing Bertans to Kyle.

It's an ass whip to try to discuss things with goal post movers that throw out a wall of text to dissect.

Winter is here, I'm sure kyle appreciates you keeping his nuts warm.

[poeticism707]

I've been begging that Pop play him at the 4 as a poor-man's Draymond Green & Pau's injury might be the best thing that happened to the team....along w/ Porker's.

This.

[MI21]

Lol sure.

They are completely different things.

Some guys are athletic freaks in a straight line but when it comes time to chop their feet and move side to side and at angles, that athleticism isn't as impressive. It works the other way as well. It's why some athletic bigs can stick with a guard on a switch and some can't.

[tbdog]

Anderson will be a much better defender to Bertans. Kyle positioning is very good. Excellent in fact. Offensively though, Bertans has that covered. Thing is, I think Bertans will always be a 4 and Kyle should always be a 3. Those two together could really work in the future.

[cd021]

Bertans also has fairly short arms unlike Anderson.

i read somewhere that Bertans has a 7'3 wingspan that's five inches longer than his body in shoes.
Anderson's arm span is 7'2 3/4, which is a little over inches longer than his body.

Bertan's has long arms but Anderson's arms are freakishly long.

[Blake]

They are completely different things.

Some guys are athletic freaks in a straight line but when it comes time to chop their feet and move side to side and at angles, that athleticism isn't as impressive. It works the other way as well. It's why some athletic bigs can stick with a guard on a switch and some can't.

Fascinating.

Is this your way of agreeing with Chinook that Kyle is more mobile than Bertans or are you just giving a lecture, professor?

[silverblackfan]

Kyle has had a nice few games filling in for the massive shoes of Kawhi. He does a nice job rebounding and messing with shots. He can be beat on the parameter, but even then bothers the shot with his length and usually funnels the guy to a potential blocker.
I have noticed that he has also been talking to the newer players about spacing on the floor. I am sure Becky, Tony, and Kyle all have been helping Murray get up to speed as fast as possible.

[picnroll]

i read somewhere that Bertans has a 7'3 wingspan that's five inches longer than his body in shoes.
Anderson's arm span is 7'2 3/4, which is a little over inches longer than his body.

Bertan's has long arms but Anderson's arms are freakishly long.
Draftexpress in 2011 noted negatives on Bertans as a height of 6'10" but wingspan of only 6'10" and average lateral quickness.


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Davis-Bertans-6320/

[SAGirl]

Anderson will be a much better defender to Bertans. Kyle positioning is very good. Excellent in fact. Offensively though, Bertans has that covered. Thing is, I think Bertans will always be a 4 and Kyle should always be a 3. Those two together could really work in the future.
I agree and Pop praising the young Spurs as guys with high character that enjoy playing with each other means to me that the locker room with the young Spurs has no drama and everyone wants each other to succeed and play well when they get chances.

(The drama queens are in this forum. :toast) :lol

[Blake]

(The drama queens are in this forum. :toast) :lol

You don't have to be hard on yourself

[ceperez]

Draftexpress in 2011 noted negatives on Bertans as a height of 6'10" but wingspan of only 6'10" and average lateral quickness.


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Davis-Bertans-6320/

Thanks for the real facts. Bertans wingspan can't be much because of his narrow shoulders.

[BillMc]

Draftexpress in 2011 noted negatives on Bertans as a height of 6'10" but wingspan of only 6'10" and average lateral quickness.


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Davis-Bertans-6320/

cheers for that.:toast

They have updated that height. He was only 6'8" when drafted as I recall. Davis was 18 and has grown 2 inches since then. It is part of why there is some confusion whether he is a 3 or 4. Everyone thought back then he was a SF

[SAGirl]

824108020712013825
824313050446450688

[Blake]

Draftexpress in 2011 noted negatives on Bertans as a height of 6'10" but wingspan of only 6'10" and average lateral quickness.


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Davis-Bertans-6320/

Lol "only 6'10"

Most people's wingspans = their height

[dabom]

You don't have to be hard on yourself

:lol

[Chinook]

Lol "only 6'10"

Most people's wingspans = their height

Nope. Wingspans tend to be longer than their height by a good couple of inches.

This really hasn't been a good day or so for you trying to show off your bball takes.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2014/05/nba_wingspans_forget_height_basketball_players_win gspans_are_absurd_and.html


According to one study, the average adult man has an arm span 2.1 inches longer than his height. The 2014 NBA combine wingspan numbers—helpfully aggregated by DraftExpress—reveal that elite basketball players are not average adult men. The players measured at this year’s combine have a wingspan that is, on average, 4.8 inches longer than their height without shoes. (That’s a bit stretchier than the usual draft crop: According to DraftExpress’s historical numbers, the average NBA prospect is 4.4 inches longer than he is tall.) David Epstein, the author of the excellent book The Sports Gene, says that most people have an arm length-to-height ratio of 1.01-to-1. By contrast, Epstein reports that the average NBA player has an arms-to-height ratio of 1.06-to-1, “greater than … the diagnostic criteria for Marfan syndrome, a disorder of the body’s connective tissues that often results in elongated limbs.”

[ceperez]

cheers for that.:toast

They have updated that height. He was only 6'8" when drafted as I recall. Davis was 18 and has grown 2 inches since then. It is part of why there is some confusion whether he is a 3 or 4. Everyone thought back then he was a SF

I think he should be as tall as Dedmon. Dedmon has actuall measurements without shoes at 6'10": http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeWayne-Dedmon-6506/

You can actually see it in this image where they are both just standing up:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/spurs/sites/default/files/styles/main_gallery_photo__480_tall/public/10172016_spurs_practice_sobhani0318.jpg?itok=UnSyD qVX

Note: Dedmon is standing closer to the camera, so he should appear bigger, but it looks like they are the same height.

[Blake]

Nope. Wingspans tend to be longer than their height by a good couple of inches.

This really hasn't been a good day or so for you trying to show off your bball takes.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2014/05/nba_wingspans_forget_height_basketball_players_win gspans_are_absurd_and.html

I was talking about people in general.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8793422

This hasn't been a good year for you showing off your reading skills.

[Chinook]

I was talking about people in general.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8793422

This hasn't been a good year for you showing off your reading skills.

Did you read the first sentence of that quote? Two inches is the average for regular people. It's four or five inches for basketball players.

God, you're being stupid as shit about this. Here's your link:


RESULTS:Correlation coefficients (r = 0.73-0.89) indicated a clear association between arm-span measurements and height in all groups. However, arm-span was found to be significantly different (P < 0.01) from height in two ethnic groups, the Afro-Caribbean's of both sexes and Asian males. This suggests that arm-span measurements may be an inappropriate proxy for height in certain populations.
CONCLUSION:
The arm-span measurement and height relationship is significantly different in Afro-Caribbean and Asian males. This suggests that any future studies attempting to use arm-span measurement as a proxy for height must consider these ethnic differences.

Maybe that's too complicated for you to understand, but it says nothing about wingspan equaling height. Shit, it says nothing about them even being proportional. The whole point of that article is that those two factors don't reliably correlate unless you control for things like race.

Seriously, go back to the Political Forum where there will be people to make better arguments for you to latch onto. This isn't your cup of tea.

[Blake]

Lol wow. I clearly said in general it's the case, not that it's always the case. The study clearly shows the correlation. It's very very clear.

Your reading comprehension still blows.

[Blake]

Day 2 of lol Kyle being more mobile than Bertans

[Chinook]

Lol wow. I clearly said in general it's the case, not that it's always the case. The study clearly shows the correlation. It's very very clear.

Your reading comprehension still blows.

Correlation doesn't mean they're equal. Stop being a dumbass. The taller you are the longer your arms tend to be; however, wingspan is still usually greater than height. Mine is four inches longer, for example, and I'm of regular height.

More importantly, you were trying to lol at someone talking about Bertans' ratio, which means you weren't talking about normal people. Even if Bertans were normal (he's not), he'd still be below-average for an NBA player.

Stop being a hack. You clearly have no idea how any of this stuff works. That's fine, but you keep doubling down on your stupidity.

[Blake]

Lol who said they were equal. Do you understand what "in general" means?

I'm not responding to the rest of that blithering wall of text. I like how you slide goal post moves in those long winded posts though. Pretty slick, tbh.

[Chinook]

Lol who said they were equal. Do you understand what "in general" means? Fuck :lol

I'm not responding to the rest of that blithering wall of text


Lol "only 6'10"

Most people's wingspans = their height

No, dumbass, most people's wingspans > their height.

[BillMc]

Kyle has played really well lately. His defense has been a nice asset. :flag:

[jermaine]

Serious question..... Do you guys think Anderson can guard KD? Not saying stop him, just bother him a bit??

[r0drig0lac]

Serious question..... Do you guys think Anderson can guard KD? Not saying stop him, just bother him a bit??

occasionally? Maybe

As the main defender? No chance in hell

[Seventyniner]

occasionally? Maybe

As the main defender? No chance in hell

Against GS, 8-10 min is all you would need, assuming Kawhi plays the rest of the game and spends all his time guarding Durant.

[ceperez]

Serious question..... Do you guys think Anderson can guard KD? Not saying stop him, just bother him a bit??

Yes, because he has the length. Everyone else other than Leonard is just too small.

[GSH]

Nope. Wingspans tend to be longer than their height by a good couple of inches.

This really hasn't been a good day or so for you trying to show off your bball takes.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2014/05/nba_wingspans_forget_height_basketball_players_win gspans_are_absurd_and.html


Careful, Chinook. The article says "one study". I've seen at least a half dozen studies on height/wingspan over the years that all concluded the same thing: that, statistically, it is not possible to reject the hypothesis that height=wingspan in the general population. Took me about 10 seconds to find one of those studies - link below.

There was a really good study that hypothesized that the ratio of wingspan/height was race-related. The theory was that in those of European descent, wingspan was roughly equal to height; in those of African descent, wingspan was greater than height; and in those of Asian descent, wingspan was slightly less than height. The correlation was weak, but there nonetheless. Doesn't matter much, as that study was sanitized and disappeared. Institutions shy away from studies like that these days.

One thing is certain - NBA players tend to have wingspans that are extraordinarily long, compared to their height. They are outliers. It's part of the edge that allows them to make it to the NBA.

Edit: Forgot the link. This was the first one that popped up. There are plenty of others out there, I'm sure. Just saying it's not as cut and dried as most people think, looking at anecdotal evidence and isolated studies.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/bodyproportions.shtml

[r0drig0lac]

Against GS, 8-10 min is all you would need, assuming Kawhi plays the rest of the game and spends all his time guarding Durant.

In this case, it could have "relative" success, after all we are talking about kevin durant here

[Blake]

No, dumbass, most people's wingspans > their height.

K, nifty. I found out today that some studies show dudes wingspans are roughly 2 inches longer than their height which just completely shatters the myth I grew up on.

I mean that really makes your Kyle mobility > Bertran's mobility comment look Einsteinian.

I'm telling you, you're really good at diverting attention away from your ridiculous comments. Very impressive.

[GSH]

cheers for tha't.:toast

They have updated that height. He was only 6'8" when drafted as I recall. Davis was 18 and has grown 2 inches since then. It is part of why there is some confusion whether he is a 3 or 4. Everyone thought back then he was a SF


Bertans' standing reach is listed at 8'10" which is the same as Kawhi's. So it's clear he's not a freak of nature in the reach department. But the difference is also not so drastic as to make it a serious negative.

One thing I will say is that the measurements came from the Nike Hoops Summit. They aren't always as accurate as they could be. I've seen quite a few that they absolutely got wrong. Not only that, but kids in their teens and early 20's tend to have height variations as the day goes on. Measure them in the morning, and they might be an inch, or even a little more, taller than in the morning. I've never had the occasion to look at wingspan that way. But I can tell you that healthcare professionals' measurements on patients will not be the same, so I wouldn't take the Hoops Summit numbers as gospel. Davis' reach probably isn't as great as a bunch of other NBA guys who are the same height.

His height isn't the only reason for confusion over him being a 3 or a 4. He played the 3 primarily in Europe. Not exclusively, but most of the time - at least before the ACL. I don't know about after that.

[ceperez]

Bertans' standing reach is listed at 8'10" which is the same as Kawhi's. So it's clear he's not a freak of nature in the reach department. But the difference is also not so drastic as to make it a serious negative.

One thing I will say is that the measurements came from the Nike Hoops Summit. They aren't always as accurate as they could be. I've seen quite a few that they absolutely got wrong. Not only that, but kids in their teens and early 20's tend to have height variations as the day goes on. Measure them in the morning, and they might be an inch, or even a little more, taller than in the morning. I've never had the occasion to look at wingspan that way. But I can tell you that healthcare professionals' measurements on patients will not be the same, so I wouldn't take the Hoops Summit numbers as gospel. Davis' reach probably isn't as great as a bunch of other NBA guys who are the same height.

His height isn't the only reason for confusion over him being a 3 or a 4. He played the 3 primarily in Europe. Not exclusively, but most of the time - at least before the ACL. I don't know about after that.

I can't believe that he's so much better than Spurs other 1st round draft pick that had a similar injury. Yeah, what's his name in the d-league?

[spurraider21]

Can't tell if Blake is dishonest or delusional.

Chinook didn't introduce wingspan into the conversation. Picnroll mentioned it first, Blake eventually commented that wingspan typically equals height, and Chinook corrected him. That was a separate string of comments than the mobility one. It wasn't a "distraction" or goal post shift or w/e

[GSH]

I can't believe that he's so much better than Spurs other 1st round draft pick that had a similar injury. Yeah, what's his name in the d-league?


Not sure what you're getting at, or how it relates to that post. Help me out.

[SAGirl]

Serious question..... Do you guys think Anderson can guard KD? Not saying stop him, just bother him a bit??
For a few minutes yes, whether bc Pop needs to rest Kawhi or someone is in foul trouble, or bc he wants to throw some other look or body out there he can. Kyle guarded him in the OkC series and stripped him a few times and at least didn't make it easy... Not like you will have him there for long anyways and KD will figure out anybody or any scheme eventually, but for a few minutes yes... (sort of like Pop putting Simmons on Lebron against the Cavs the last game. He did it for just a few minutes and was fine... if you do it for a full game, Lebron will figure it out eventually too.)

[SAGirl]

Can't tell if Blake is dishonest or delusional.

Chinook didn't introduce wingspan into the conversation. Picnroll mentioned it first, Blake eventually commented that wingspan typically equals height, and Chinook corrected him. That was a separate string of comments than the mobility one. It wasn't a "distraction" or goal post shift or w/e
Blake is kind of trolling I think.

[SAGirl]

Careful, Chinook. The article says "one study". I've seen at least a half dozen studies on height/wingspan over the years that all concluded the same thing: that, statistically, it is not possible to reject the hypothesis that height=wingspan in the general population. Took me about 10 seconds to find one of those studies - link below.

There was a really good study that hypothesized that the ratio of wingspan/height was race-related. The theory was that in those of European descent, wingspan was roughly equal to height; in those of African descent, wingspan was greater than height; and in those of Asian descent, wingspan was slightly less than height. The correlation was weak, but there nonetheless. Doesn't matter much, as that study was sanitized and disappeared. Institutions shy away from studies like that these days.

One thing is certain - NBA players tend to have wingspans that are extraordinarily long, compared to their height. They are outliers. It's part of the edge that allows them to make it to the NBA.

Edit: Forgot the link. This was the first one that popped up. There are plenty of others out there, I'm sure. Just saying it's not as cut and dried as most people think, looking at anecdotal evidence and isolated studies.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/bodyproportions.shtml
The study you reference kind of makes me laugh bc Kyle is sort of like a quarter chinese (I think chinese grandmother on the mother's side or something) and his father is african american... lol I can't remember where I saw it (I think his college team UCLA visited China when he was a freshman and I saw an interview about it...) Anyways, I bet Kyle would make that study go around for some loops. :lol

[Blake]

Can't tell if Blake is dishonest or delusional.

Chinook didn't introduce wingspan into the conversation. Picnroll mentioned it first, Blake eventually commented that wingspan typically equals height, and Chinook corrected him. That was a separate string of comments than the mobility one. It wasn't a "distraction" or goal post shift or w/e

No, it's pretty clear to me that Chinook has run away from his Kyle mobility comment and is now focusing his walls of text squarely on height wingspan talk.

You can perceive it how you like.

[spurraider21]

I don't think he has abandoned the claim that kyle shows greater lateral mobility than Bertans. Feel free to ask him

[Blake]

I don't think he has abandoned the claim that kyle shows greater lateral mobility than Bertans. Feel free to ask him

I don't think so either.

That's why it's funny. He doesn't want to admit it was stupid but he doesn't want to discuss it any more. He doesn't want to back it up. He just wants it to be forgotten.

[Blake]

Blake is kind of trolling I think.

Well sure.

What's your answer as to who has more mobility between Kyle and Bertans.

[SAGirl]

Well sure.

What's your answer as to who has more mobility between Kyle and Bertans.
I am just going to ignore that whole discussion... you can carry on just fine without me.:wakeup

[CGD]

Time to sell high

[Chinook]

I don't think so either.

That's why it's funny. He doesn't want to admit it was stupid but he doesn't want to discuss it any more. He doesn't want to back it up. He just wants it to be forgotten.

You've brought nothing to the table. Your original evaluation was that mobility = general athleticism and tried to demonstrate that by showing offensive highlights. I've already shown how your evaluation was wrong; mobility is not tied to things like straight-line speed or vertical. So you conceded that (though you did so like a jerk). Now you have nothing but want to "discuss" it anyway.

Mobility isn't just how fast your legs can move. It's also how well you move, both in terms of pure coordination and spatial intelligence. That's why you have guys like Splitter who could move just as well as guys with much more athleticism.

Anderson is extremely well-coordinated, which is how he survives being relatively unathletic. As I said in my first post on the topic, he has maximized his limited physical gifts. Bertans is just in a different boat, which you can tell from how rounded of turns he takes when he has to change direction on a drive and how choppy his steps are when he makes a sudden pivot. Maybe that is do to his knee, though probably more about trust than the actual integrity of it. Maybe that has to do with him being tall and gangly and unused to those movements. Maybe he just doesn't practice those movements enough. But guess what? Those all go into a player being mobile.

[Blake]

I am just going to ignore that whole discussion... you can carry on just fine without me.:wakeup


The simple questions about your heroes are sometimes the hardest to answer huh.

[SAGirl]

The simple questions about your heroes are sometimes the hardest to answer huh.
:troll

[Chinook]

Careful, Chinook. The article says "one study". I've seen at least a half dozen studies on height/wingspan over the years that all concluded the same thing: that, statistically, it is not possible to reject the hypothesis that height=wingspan in the general population. Took me about 10 seconds to find one of those studies - link below.

There was a really good study that hypothesized that the ratio of wingspan/height was race-related. The theory was that in those of European descent, wingspan was roughly equal to height; in those of African descent, wingspan was greater than height; and in those of Asian descent, wingspan was slightly less than height. The correlation was weak, but there nonetheless. Doesn't matter much, as that study was sanitized and disappeared. Institutions shy away from studies like that these days.

One thing is certain - NBA players tend to have wingspans that are extraordinarily long, compared to their height. They are outliers. It's part of the edge that allows them to make it to the NBA.

Edit: Forgot the link. This was the first one that popped up. There are plenty of others out there, I'm sure. Just saying it's not as cut and dried as most people think, looking at anecdotal evidence and isolated studies.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/bodyproportions.shtml

Indeed, thanks for more insight. Blake's article suggested something similar to what you're saying. Indeed, long arms help with a lot of basketball things, and Bertans (and Bonner) are both sort of odd for their wingspans as far as general NBA population goes. For a guy his height, it really shouldn't make a difference. He's plenty long enough to contest anything. But Kyle having a superlative wingspan for his height is definitely a potential edge when judging their defensive potential.

[Blake]

You've brought nothing to the table. Your original evaluation was that mobility = general athleticism and tried to demonstrate that by showing offensive highlights. I've already shown how your evaluation was wrong; mobility is not tied to things like straight-line speed or vertical. So you conceded that (though you did so like a jerk). Now you have nothing but want to "discuss" it anyway.

Mobility isn't just how fast your legs can move. It's also how well you move, both in terms of pure coordination and spatial intelligence. That's why you have guys like Splitter who could move just as well as guys with much more athleticism.

Anderson is extremely well-coordinated, which is how he survives being relatively unathletic. As I said in my first post on the topic, he has maximized his limited physical gifts. Bertans is just in a different boat, which you can tell from how rounded of turns he takes when he has to change direction on a drive and how choppy his steps are when he makes a sudden pivot. Maybe that is do to his knee, though probably more about trust than the actual integrity of it. Maybe that has to do with him being tall and gangly and unused to those movements. Maybe he just doesn't practice those movements enough. But guess what? Those all go into a player being mobile.

It's your claim. I don't need to bring anything to the table.

Your hacky text wall of mobility vs athleticism is fluff and filler that is gonna stay off the table too.

You're a scrub that made a silly comment about a guy named SloMo being more mobile than a guy that has shown some explosive dunks on those bad knees these past few games.

My lol stands

[Blake]

:troll

It's OK to be afraid. The message board isn't for the thin skinned.

[tonight...you]

I am SO enjoying this thread! Kudos guys!

[dabom]

It's OK to be afraid. The message board isn't for the thin skinned.

[SAGirl]

You've brought nothing to the table. Your original evaluation was that mobility = general athleticism and tried to demonstrate that by showing offensive highlights. I've already shown how your evaluation was wrong; mobility is not tied to things like straight-line speed or vertical. So you conceded that (though you did so like a jerk). Now you have nothing but want to "discuss" it anyway.

Mobility isn't just how fast your legs can move. It's also how well you move, both in terms of pure coordination and spatial intelligence. That's why you have guys like Splitter who could move just as well as guys with much more athleticism.

Anderson is extremely well-coordinated, which is how he survives being relatively unathletic. As I said in my first post on the topic, he has maximized his limited physical gifts. Bertans is just in a different boat, which you can tell from how rounded of turns he takes when he has to change direction on a drive and how choppy his steps are when he makes a sudden pivot. Maybe that is do to his knee, though probably more about trust than the actual integrity of it. Maybe that has to do with him being tall and gangly and unused to those movements. Maybe he just doesn't practice those movements enough. But guess what? Those all go into a player being mobile.
I
never noticed the coordination aspect per se in this context you place it but it does allow him to avoid fouling.. and that is important for defense. I have noticed his feet position is usually great in half court sets and when he knows a screen is coming (if he can't anticipate a screen he will get screened free like anybody, but if he knows the screen is coming he positions his feet to go around it if he needs to and tries to anticipate the direction the guy is taking. That certainly does take coordination (and anticipation).

Blake is mostly trolling bc he doesn't care to really discuss any of these observations.

Davis is really new to the system and he really plays mostly a 4 (whereas Pop has played Kyle on the wings a lot)... Feet positioning is not something I have seen Davis be great at but then again, he doesn't have to go through a lot of screens as a 4...

I really hate this kind of discussion bc someone is always going to come out the bad end of it. Kyle is a superior rebounder when he has in his mind to go for a board, he blocks out and boxes out guys regularly, he has quick hands, and good hands, defends without fouling most of the time, relies on feet positioning and his length and has BBIQ to anticipate plays. He can deflect a lot of passes in his vecinity and to that end made plays like this:


https://i.imgbox.com/FETqCzla.gif

He has definitely maximized his talents and physical tools. I hate to contrast that with Davis who needs to play to his own personal strengths... where for a big he's fast and agile and can block shots. He just needs to pick up the Spurs system on defense. Davis has his own church, is a very gifted offensive player and I like him too... so just dislike these comparisons.

Kyle on the other hand unfortunately has so many haters on the forums that they refuse to acknowledge even the things the guy does well.

C'est la vie.
:flag:

[Blake]

"....With that said, the biggest questions surrounding Anderson's pro potential revolve around his play on the defensive end, specifically, who he will be able to guard at the NBA level. While Anderson's length and anticipation skills allow him to generate plenty of blocks and steals, his lateral quickness is as poor as any player in this draft class. He's extremely upright in his defensive stance, and he allows opposing players to blow right by him like he's simply invisible at times......"

DraftExpressProfile: Kyle Anderson, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyle-Anderson-6177/



Oh hey, I'll bring this to the table.

[Blake]

I
never noticed the coordination aspect per se in this context you place it but it does allow him to avoid fouling.. and that is important for defense. I have noticed his feet position is usually great in half court sets and when he knows a screen is coming (if he can't anticipate a screen he will get screened free like anybody, but if he knows the screen is coming he positions his feet to go around it if he needs to and tries to anticipate the direction the guy is taking. That certainly does take coordination (and anticipation).

Blake is mostly trolling bc he doesn't care to really discuss any of these observations.

Davis is really new to the system and he really plays mostly a 4 (whereas Pop has played Kyle on the wings a lot)... Feet positioning is not something I have seen Davis be great at but then again, he doesn't have to go through a lot of screens as a 4...

I really hate this kind of discussion bc someone is always going to come out the bad end of it. Kyle is a superior rebounder when he has in his mind to go for a board, he blocks out and boxes out guys regularly, he has quick hands, and good hands, defends without fouling most of the time, relies on feet positioning and his length and has BBIQ to anticipate plays. He can deflect a lot of passes in his vecinity and to that end made plays like this:


https://i.imgbox.com/FETqCzla.gif

He has definitely maximized his talents and physical tools. I hate to contrast that with Davis who needs to play to his own personal strengths... where for a big he's fast and agile and can block shots. He just needs to pick up the Spurs system on defense. Davis has his own church, is a very gifted offensive player and I like him too... so just dislike these comparisons.

Kyle on the other hand unfortunately has so many haters on the forums that they refuse to acknowledge even the things the guy does well.

C'est la vie.
:flag:

Is this your way of ignoring the discussion

[tonight...you]

I
never noticed the coordination aspect per se in this context you place it but it does allow him to avoid fouling.. and that is important for defense. I have noticed his feet position is usually great in half court sets and when he knows a screen is coming (if he can't anticipate a screen he will get screened free like anybody, but if he knows the screen is coming he positions his feet to go around it if he needs to and tries to anticipate the direction the guy is taking. That certainly does take coordination (and anticipation).

Blake is mostly trolling bc he doesn't care to really discuss any of these observations.

Davis is really new to the system and he really plays mostly a 4 (whereas Pop has played Kyle on the wings a lot)... Feet positioning is not something I have seen Davis be great at but then again, he doesn't have to go through a lot of screens as a 4...

I really hate this kind of discussion bc someone is always going to come out the bad end of it. Kyle is a superior rebounder when he has in his mind to go for a board, he blocks out and boxes out guys regularly, he has quick hands, and good hands, defends without fouling most of the time, relies on feet positioning and his length and has BBIQ to anticipate plays. He can deflect a lot of passes in his vecinity and to that end made plays like this:


https://i.imgbox.com/FETqCzla.gif

He has definitely maximized his talents and physical tools. I hate to contrast that with Davis who needs to play to his own personal strengths... where for a big he's fast and agile and can block shots. He just needs to pick up the Spurs system on defense. Davis has his own church, is a very gifted offensive player and I like him too... so just dislike these comparisons.

Kyle on the other hand unfortunately has so many haters on the forums that they refuse to acknowledge even the things the guy does well.

C'est la vie.
:flag:
lol...
I have zero hate for Kyle, but you just said you were bowing out of this discussion.
Sigh...

[SAGirl]

It's OK to be afraid. The message board isn't for the thin skinned.
Keep on trolling dude.

[SAGirl]

lol...
I have zero hate for Kyle, but you just said you were bowing out of this discussion.
Sigh...
lol
I really have no interest on the Blake take... but I found interesting that Chinook mention coordination and it does help a guy to avoid fouling.

Now the Davis vs Kyle thing... I will leave Blake to keep on with his thing.

[tonight...you]

lol
I really have no interest on the Blake take... but I found interesting that Chinook mention coordination and it does help a guy to avoid fouling.

Now the Davis vs Kyle thing... I will leave Blake to keep on with his thing.

Kyle is showing very good things on the defensive end. I so hope he keeps it up and continues to find comfort letting it fly on O.
Bertans is showing very good things on the offensive end. I so hope he learns good, fundamental, positional defense and becomes instinctive, on that end, with more playing time.

Those two guys are going to be needed and soon.

[spurraider21]

There's probably some middle ground between what Blake and Chinook are saying.

Bertans is more athletic/explosive than kyle. Easily
Kyle is (defensively) smarter, more coordinated, and shows much better positioning

While Bertans has more mobility, it could be fair to say kyle, defensively shows more functional mobility, especially if we're isolating lateral mobility from other directional movements

[tonight...you]

There's probably some middle ground between what Blake and Chinook are saying.

Bertans is more athletic/explosive than kyle. Easily
Kyle is (defensively) smarter, more coordinated, and shows much better positioning

While Bertans has more mobility, it could be fair to say kyle, defensively shows more functional mobility, especially if we're isolating lateral mobility from other directional movements
Nailed. Let's bury this coffin...

[r0drig0lac]

Those two guys are going to be needed and soon.

yes,a lineup with Kyle, Bertans, Kawhi and Aldridge (Dedman) would have all the size and athleticism to give a hell to the worriers

[Blake]

Kyle is showing very good things on the defensive end. I so hope he keeps it up and continues to find comfort letting it fly on O.
Bertans is showing very good things on the offensive end. I so hope he learns good, fundamental, positional defense and becomes instinctive, on that end, with more playing time.

Those two guys are going to be needed and soon.

I concur.

[Blake]

There's probably some middle ground between what Blake and Chinook are saying.

Bertans is more athletic/explosive than kyle. Easily
Kyle is (defensively) smarter, more coordinated, and shows much better positioning

While Bertans has more mobility, it could be fair to say kyle, defensively shows more functional mobility, especially if we're isolating lateral mobility from other directional movements

Lol functional mobility.

If that's another word for high IQ, yeah, nobody is arguing that.

[bklynspursfan]

yes,a lineup with Kyle, Bertans, Kawhi and Aldridge (Dedman) would have all the size and athleticism to give a hell to the worriers

I would worry a bit with all the off ball movement from the warriors with Anderson/Bertans as it stands now.

I see the potential with the size, but idk if they'd be ready at this point. We get 2 more games against them tho for Pop to tinker and see what works.

[Chinook]

There's probably some middle ground between what Blake and Chinook are saying.

Bertans is more athletic/explosive than kyle. Easily
Kyle is (defensively) smarter, more coordinated, and shows much better positioning

While Bertans has more mobility, it could be fair to say kyle, defensively shows more functional mobility, especially if we're isolating lateral mobility from other directional movements

I don't disagree with this. I do think when replying to the original question as to how Kyle can stay in front of people better than Bertans can, functional mobility as you put it is what matters.

[Raven]

been saying it for a while... glad everyone is getting on board

[tonight...you]

I don't disagree with this. I do think when replying to the original question as to how Kyle can stay in front of people better than Bertans can, functional mobility as you put it is what matters.

Kyle's "functional mobility" over Bertans can be argued to no end, up and down and honestly, it will mean nothing, in the end.
I think Kyle's very good defensive movements are more from his high IQ and anticipation. He makes movements with his hands and arms that have nothing to do with his "mobility".
He "allows" players to get past him so he can maintain a backside blocking angle...

He knows how to anticipate a pass and use his arm length to do good things.

That kid is awesome on D, until he is overwhelmed athletically.

Bertans has enough mobility to keep guys in front of him, but I don't think he has the "arms" (to put it simply) to disrupt like Kyle can.
Maybe in a year, or two (if he's a film rat) Bertans can build that kind of defensive anticipation, but he's just a rookie right now, bouncing about and doing his try-hard, more than his cerebral.

Kyle just has it, for anticipating what's going on, on the court- no matter how slow he moves.

[spurraider21]

Kyle's "functional mobility" over Bertans can be argued to no end, up and down and honestly, it will mean nothing, in the end.
I think Kyle's very good defensive movements are more from his high IQ and anticipation. He makes movements with his hands and arms that have nothing to do with his "mobility".
He "allows" players to get past him so he can maintain a backside blocking angle...

He knows how to anticipate a pass and use his arm length to do good things.

That kid is awesome on D, until he is overwhelmed athletically.

Bertans has enough mobility to keep guys in front of him, but I don't think he has the "arms" (to put it simply) to disrupt like Kyle can.
Maybe in a year, or two (if he's a film rat) Bertans can build that kind of defensive anticipation, but he's just a rookie right now, bouncing about and doing his try-hard, more than his cerebral.

Kyle just has it, for anticipating what's going on, on the court- no matter how slow he moves.
Arguing anything over the Internet "will mean nothing, in the end". But we enjoy it which is why we're on a message board

[tonight...you]

Arguing anything over the Internet "will mean nothing, in the end". But we enjoy it which is why we're on a message board

Ultimately true, but I did happen to write a whole lot more than that. So I guess I'm my own worst hypocrite, lol.
Still... good points. Props, me!

Thank you... me.

[ElNono]

There's probably some middle ground between what Blake and Chinook are saying.

Bertans is more athletic/explosive than kyle. Easily
Kyle is (defensively) smarter, more coordinated, and shows much better positioning

While Bertans has more mobility, it could be fair to say kyle, defensively shows more functional mobility, especially if we're isolating lateral mobility from other directional movements

Kyle has good reflexes and instincts... you don't have to be athletic to "read" your guy and see what's coming. Manu still defends at a pretty high level when we all know your lateral movement is shot at that age, because he also has good instincts and savvy (plus he puts the work, fighting through screens and not giving up).

It's serviceable, but obviously not ideal. Much like Manu, sometimes Kyle guesses wrong, and it's a shitfest, because there's simply no athleticism/explosion to make up for the mistake (unlike, say, Simmons or even Lebron, who can run the full size of the court and block a shot in like 3 seconds flat).

Then again, having that is better than a lot of players that have neither the athleticism, the instincts or have them but don't put forth the effort to defend.

[GSH]

Indeed, thanks for more insight. Blake's article suggested something similar to what you're saying. Indeed, long arms help with a lot of basketball things, and Bertans (and Bonner) are both sort of odd for their wingspans as far as general NBA population goes. For a guy his height, it really shouldn't make a difference. He's plenty long enough to contest anything. But Kyle having a superlative wingspan for his height is definitely a potential edge when judging their defensive potential.


I'm always intrigued when I watch a guy play and think he's not that good, but the results say differently. Kyle is one of those guys. I mentioned in another thread, but I'm thinking that he's just got really good hands and hand/eye coordination. I've started keying on watching him, and I've seen quite a few plays where other guys would draw whistles (reaching), but Kyle manages to get a clean deflection. Kind of the way people marveled that Tim could get so many blocks without his feet leaving the floor.

In his first couple of seasons I kept noticing plays where he was out in no-man's land on defense, and just doing nothing. I mean nothing. I commented on it at the time. I don't see that happening much anymore, which is a big step forward I guess. He's still slow as molasses, but you can't just shrug off the success he has.

I'm also watching him go to the basket, and he takes bizarrely long strides. (Long, slooow strides. :lol) But it lets him change directions and cover a lot of ground. As long as the paint isn't packed, he's pretty effective with it.

Murray is sort of the opposite. He's obviously quick. But when he dribbles, he does this thing sometimes where he bends over at the waist. Watch him, and every time he does it, he shifts gears the wrong direction and becomes much slower than he could be. And when he does that, he just invites defenders to attack him. As silly as it sounds, I think Kyle sort of lulls defenders to sleep, and then uses those long strides to get past them. He also uses that to make some damned good passes, which is a generally underrated part of his game.

He pissed me off something terrible in Cleveland. But you have to give credit where it's due. My expectation for him was that he would develop into a solid rotation player, and he's pretty close to that. He needs a little more consistency, but so do most role players. That's why they're role players. I still think it's the foot speed issue that keeps him from being better. But if the Spurs tried to get another player for his salary, they would have their own drawbacks that would be just as big. That, I think, says he's a "legit" NBA player - he just isn't going to develop some day into a star.

[GSH]

Bertans is more athletic/explosive than kyle. Easily
Kyle is (defensively) smarter, more coordinated, and shows much better positioning



Watching Bertans makes me wish like hell that the Spurs had brought him over right away. Maybe he avoids the injuries. I know roster space was a problem, but I think about "what if". What if he had been brought up in that defensive culture the Spurs had at the time? (Pop still stressed D, but I really don't believe it's the same here as it used to be. Maybe I'm wrong.) Still, without going to the D-League, the lack of minutes might have developed him less than Europe.

But watch him now, and imagine him without any injuries, and with several years in the Spurs' system. Damn.

[MI21]

Fascinating.

Is this your way of agreeing with Chinook that Kyle is more mobile than Bertans or are you just giving a lecture, professor?

Wow, you seem like an angry guy. I'm not having an argument with you, I'm just giving some information. Kyle is a little more fluid and has better footwork and balance. Bertans is more explosive and is quicker. It is all different types of athleticism. Make of that what you will.

[tonight...you]

Wow, you seem like an angry guy. I'm not having an argument with you, I'm just giving some information. Kyle is a little more fluid and has better footwork and balance. Bertans is more explosive and is quicker. It is all different types of athleticism. Make of that what you will.
http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_meipgodreC1qbh26io1_500.png

[SpursIndonesia]

You've brought nothing to the table. Your original evaluation was that mobility = general athleticism and tried to demonstrate that by showing offensive highlights. I've already shown how your evaluation was wrong; mobility is not tied to things like straight-line speed or vertical. So you conceded that (though you did so like a jerk). Now you have nothing but want to "discuss" it anyway.

Mobility isn't just how fast your legs can move. It's also how well you move, both in terms of pure coordination and spatial intelligence. That's why you have guys like Splitter who could move just as well as guys with much more athleticism.

Anderson is extremely well-coordinated, which is how he survives being relatively unathletic. As I said in my first post on the topic, he has maximized his limited physical gifts. Bertans is just in a different boat, which you can tell from how rounded of turns he takes when he has to change direction on a drive and how choppy his steps are when he makes a sudden pivot. Maybe that is do to his knee, though probably more about trust than the actual integrity of it. Maybe that has to do with him being tall and gangly and unused to those movements. Maybe he just doesn't practice those movements enough. But guess what? Those all go into a player being mobile.

Yeah, i would say Amare Stoudamire was twice more athletic than Tiago Splitter in his hay days, but the Golden God was MUCH more mobile especially laterally in defense & defending the smaller guys on the perimeter.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Some of us have been praising Anderson since Day One. Good to see the rest of Spurstalk has finally caught up. Bertans and Murray have also been on my radar since Day One.
Not a big fan or Forbes or Simmons although I thought Simmons was going to break out this year. I think he's reached his peak and can be a serviceable third string guy.

[SAGirl]

Watching Bertans makes me wish like hell that the Spurs had brought him over right away. Maybe he avoids the injuries. I know roster space was a problem, but I think about "what if". What if he had been brought up in that defensive culture the Spurs had at the time? (Pop still stressed D, but I really don't believe it's the same here as it used to be. Maybe I'm wrong.) Still, without going to the D-League, the lack of minutes might have developed him less than Europe.

But watch him now, and imagine him without any injuries, and with several years in the Spurs' system. Damn.
I think they wanted to bring him over sooner but he got injured one year after another... I can't remember where I saw it, but it's not made up trust me.

[TheDoctor]

I think they wanted to bring him over sooner but he got injured one year after another... I can't remember where I saw it, but it's not made up trust me.

SG is right.

[SAGirl]

Some of us have been praising Anderson since Day One. Good to see the rest of Spurstalk has finally caught up. Bertans and Murray have also been on my radar since Day One.
Not a big fan or Forbes or Simmons although I thought Simmons was going to break out this year. I think he's reached his peak and can be a serviceable third string guy.
I am with you. I have been the noisiest on Anderson bc most guys hate him (really not most... there are many like you who have just observed him develop and root for him, but who don't post often... but there are a lot of trolls who do hate on him and he's the "butt" of many jokes, but anyways I kind of became noisy myself about him and it backfired on me bc guys think he's the only guy I like too, which is untrue.) Anyways I was not as high on Simmons myself just bc he came in older and I had watched him in the dleague just being a raw athlete for a season prior to the one he had and I didn't think he could fix up his issues of playing out of control at times, and not handling the pressure well but he has surprised me and I am glad to have been wrong about him.

I like Forbes enough. He can shoot and can get as hot as Mills at times, but I have a concern with him that if his shot is not on, he doesn't give you absolutely anything else. He's a rookie that Pop is trying to have "expand" his ballhandling and playmaking so we will just have to see what he can do. They didn't waive him and his contract has become guaranteed so he has time to work out in the Spurs offense. If the Spurs are unable to reup Mills he could have a role in the team as a designated shooter. It would be a very different bench with other guys probably having more prominent roles anyways, but he does need to add some things to his game... I think he showed he was a decent enough ballhandler in these past few games. He really needed a game to show he could shoot and he picked a good one against the Raptors bc his shooting was needed.

[Blake]

Wow, you seem like an angry guy. I'm not having an argument with you, I'm just giving some information. Kyle is a little more fluid and has better footwork and balance. Bertans is more explosive and is quicker. It is all different types of athleticism. Make of that what you will.

Gosh thanks because my Google is broken

[Blake]

I am with you. I have been the noisiest on Anderson bc most guys hate him (really not most... there are many like you who have just observed him develop and root for him, but who don't post often... but there are a lot of trolls who do hate on him and he's the "butt" of many jokes, but anyways I kind of became noisy myself about him and it backfired on me bc guys think he's the only guy I like too, which is untrue.) Anyways I was not as high on Simmons myself just bc he came in older and I had watched him in the dleague just being a raw athlete for a season prior to the one he had and I didn't think he could fix up his issues of playing out of control at times, and not handling the pressure well but he has surprised me and I am glad to have been wrong about him.

I like Forbes enough. He can shoot and can get as hot as Mills at times, but I have a concern with him that if his shot is not on, he doesn't give you absolutely anything else. He's a rookie that Pop is trying to have "expand" his ballhandling and playmaking so we will just have to see what he can do. They didn't waive him and his contract has become guaranteed so he has time to work out in the Spurs offense. If the Spurs are unable to reup Mills he could have a role in the team as a designated shooter. It would be a very different bench with other guys probably having more prominent roles anyways, but he does need to add some things to his game... I think he showed he was a decent enough ballhandler in these past few games. He really needed a game to show he could shoot and he picked a good one against the Raptors bc his shooting was needed.

That's a lot of words

[MaNu4Tres]

I like Forbes enough. He can shoot and can get as hot as Mills at times, but I have a concern with him that if his shot is not on, he doesn't give you absolutely anything else.

So hes Patty pretty much, just needs more time marinating.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

His defensive talent is undeniable

Been advocated that for 2 years now. It's glad that others are finally seeing it. Kyle will never be an all star player. But he is a solid NBA player. And he has shown, he can run the point in the half court set as well. It was just difficult him early this year having to play next to Parker, who reverted back to his ball hogging ways earlier this year.

I want Kyle to stay with the Spurs for a long time. He is a reliable player. You can't go wrong with reliability. People just need to realize he isn't a Manu/Harden player and never will be.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Scores 21 points? Make a whole bunch of threes? No one was talking about those. Defend on the perimeter? Many more examples of that.

General athleticism and lateral mobility aren't the same things.

Bertans is much more athletic that Kyle. Someone needs to post his blocks this season. But Kyle is MUCH smarter than Bertans and Bertans himself is a smart guy. Kyle is close to Duncan's level of intelligence and yes, that along with his 7'4" wingspan is why he is such an effective defender despite having below standard NBA athleticism. And yes, Kyle is a better defender than Bertans. I would only rate Kawhi and Green (when he isn't having brain farts) as consistently better defenders than Kyle on the Spurs. When Dedmon is on, he is better as well. His defense lead the comeback in Cleveland. I think that game validated Kyle's defense for a lot of people on this board.

[r0drig0lac]

Been advocated that for 2 years now. It's glad that others are finally seeing it. Kyle will never be an all star player. But he is a solid NBA player. And he has shown, he can run the point in the half court set as well. It was just difficult him early this year having to play next to Parker, who reverted back to his ball hogging ways earlier this year.

I want Kyle to stay with the Spurs for a long time. He is a reliable player. You can't go wrong with reliability. People just need to realize he isn't a Manu/Harden player and never will be.

I always liked Kyle, but I believe that his game will only be maximized as playmaker (I repeat: he should mirror his game in dejan bodiroga)

[SAGirl]

What Pop said of him after these past couple of games in which he totalled 22 points, 10 rebounds, seven assists and three blocks in two victories.


“Kyle really plays solid basketball,” coach Gregg Popovich said. “He doesn’t score a lot of points, but he rebounds, he assists, he makes steals. He plays a fine all-around game.”

What Kyle said of himself after starting the season so poor:


“I knew all along I would get it together and start playing the way I play,” Anderson said. “Tough start, but things don’t always fall your way. The only way you can go from there is up.”

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-Anderson-making-most-of-second-chance-as-10884035.php

[tonight...you]

What Pop said of him after these past couple of games in which he totalled 22 points, 10 rebounds, seven assists and three blocks in two victories.



What Kyle said of himself after starting the season so poor:



http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-Anderson-making-most-of-second-chance-as-10884035.php
His positives are obvious and constant.
I'm enjoying his play right now. He still has a ways to go, but he's not being a negative, while he's on the court and he's expressing some advanced basketball skills that just makes you want more.

Maybe that's one of his (unfair) problems...
He has skills that just demands you to want more from him.

And he's kind of slow...

[Blake]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/3f/dd/35/3fdd352a4dfc05d8b3fd25e980de0e75.jpg

Ha


Ha




Ha




Ha

[TheGreatYacht]

Hell fucking no

Get well soon, simmons

[cd98]

I don't think I've ever seen an NBA player that did not want to shoot when he was wide open. Kyle makes Diaw look like a selfish ball hog.

[Atl Spur]

He is way too passive........

[Ice009]

If we can get rid of this guy, it'll be a good start.


I don't think I've ever seen an NBA player that did not want to shoot when he was wide open. Kyle makes Diaw look like a selfish ball hog.

I'd kill for Diaw's aggressiveness on offense over Kyle's fear of shooting, and most people know I hated Diaw's passiveness.

[TheGreatYacht]

Ice009 is right about Green and Fathead, tbh..

[dabom]

Diaw hit thress in 2014. For some reason he stop shooting them.

[duncan2k5]

No hope for fat head, I'm afraid...

[wildbill2u]

I have to say that Kyle has improved and my opinion of his value has gone up, but I was so disappointed by his play in the last couple of minutes in our last game against the Mavs because in crunch time he passed up shots that a strong confident rotation player knows he has to take when time is running out. By this time in his development he has to show confidence in himself if he wants Pop to be confident in him at crunch time.

[GSH]

I have to say that Kyle has improved and my opinion of his value has gone up, but I was so disappointed by his play in the last couple of minutes in our last game against the Mavs because in crunch time he passed up shots that a strong confident rotation player knows he has to take when time is running out. By this time in his development he has to show confidence in himself if he wants Pop to be confident in him at crunch time.


Here's the problem, Bill. By "this time in his development", clock awareness and/or situational awareness is something he really shouldn't need to learn. Think about it - if he was a guy who was loaded with athleticism, and could score like a madman, but still lacked situational awareness after three years? People would be bitching non-stop. But here's a guy who is notorious for being on the slow end for NBA players. He has GOT to make up for it with smart, timely play.

The funny thing is, people are bitching about him not taking 3P shots, but his 3PA/36 minutes is up slightly from last year. Damn near everything else on his stat line is down from last season. His 2P% is way the hell down. His RB/36 are substantially down. His FTA/36 and AST/36 are all well down from last year. Three point shooting is just about the only thing he's doing better than he did in his second year.

Last season, there was this general believe that he was going to hit his stride in his third year, and really begin to shine. There was lots of talk about how he was going to earn more minutes, and be a guy that the Spurs would depend on this season. But the only way to try to make that case is to talk about things that don't show up on the stat sheet. I keep reading comments about how he's a good player, but damn near ALL of his numbers say that isn't true. Other than being slightly better at 3P shooting, there is virtually nothing on the stat sheet to indicate that he's any better than last year.

Somebody on the team has to have plusses that show up on the damn stat sheet.

[dabom]

Here's the problem, Bill. By "this time in his development", clock awareness and/or situational awareness is something he really shouldn't need to learn. Think about it - if he was a guy who was loaded with athleticism, and could score like a madman, but still lacked situational awareness after three years? People would be bitching non-stop. But here's a guy who is notorious for being on the slow end for NBA players. He has GOT to make up for it with smart, timely play.

The funny thing is, people are bitching about him not taking 3P shots, but his 3PA/36 minutes is up slightly from last year. Damn near everything else on his stat line is down from last season. His 2P% is way the hell down. His RB/36 are substantially down. His FTA/36 and AST/36 are all well down from last year. Three point shooting is just about the only thing he's doing better than he did in his second year.

Last season, there was this general believe that he was going to hit his stride in his third year, and really begin to shine. There was lots of talk about how he was going to earn more minutes, and be a guy that the Spurs would depend on this season. But the only way to try to make that case is to talk about things that don't show up on the stat sheet. I keep reading comments about how he's a good player, but damn near ALL of his numbers say that isn't true. Other than being slightly better at 3P shooting, there is virtually nothing on the stat sheet to indicate that he's any better than last year.

Somebody on the team has to have plusses that show up on the damn stat sheet.

I thought they were being sarcastic. Fathead has been trash all year except 1 game. WTF. :lol

[GSH]

I thought they were being sarcastic. Fathead has been trash all year except 1 game. WTF. :lol


Nah, people just KEEP talking about what a great defender he is. That's always harder to argue with, because not much of that shows up on the stat sheet, and DRTG depends a lot on the whole team. They aren't being sarcastic. But they're putting on blinders about the rest of his game. Pop has ALWAYS looked for guys who show steady year-on-year improvement. Kyle sure as hell hasn't done that, by any measure.

[SAGirl]

Here's the problem, Bill. By "this time in his development", clock awareness and/or situational awareness is something he really shouldn't need to learn. Think about it - if he was a guy who was loaded with athleticism, and could score like a madman, but still lacked situational awareness after three years? People would be bitching non-stop. But here's a guy who is notorious for being on the slow end for NBA players. He has GOT to make up for it with smart, timely play.

The funny thing is, people are bitching about him not taking 3P shots, but his 3PA/36 minutes is up slightly from last year. Damn near everything else on his stat line is down from last season. His 2P% is way the hell down. His RB/36 are substantially down. His FTA/36 and AST/36 are all well down from last year. Three point shooting is just about the only thing he's doing better than he did in his second year.

Last season, there was this general believe that he was going to hit his stride in his third year, and really begin to shine. There was lots of talk about how he was going to earn more minutes, and be a guy that the Spurs would depend on this season. But the only way to try to make that case is to talk about things that don't show up on the stat sheet. I keep reading comments about how he's a good player, but damn near ALL of his numbers say that isn't true. Other than being slightly better at 3P shooting, there is virtually nothing on the stat sheet to indicate that he's any better than last year.

Somebody on the team has to have plusses that show up on the damn stat sheet.
He takes so few shots that his attempts are a small sample in reality. Simmons is shooting less from 2% land as well as from 3... bc he's taking more jumpshots and creating more of his offense. I believe Kyle is doing more plays off the dribble and having a crazy post up here or there that Pop calls... it's a kind of development to see if he can handle it or not. He takes so few shots that one missed post up alters his percentage dramatically.

I did expect him to make strides with his shooting... bc he shot over 40% over the summer from 3 in over 4 attempts per game and he had not done that in prior summers or even in the dleague... he looked more comfortable shooting. Sadly for whatever reason, despite his improvement as a shooter he's still reluctant to shoot.. though he's gotten pressured and has lately taken shots when he's open.

You have to take into account the spots he's played at and whether they are ideal for him or not (maybe half of his minutes came as a SG... guys played out of position are not going to play that well)... he can do it well enough to not kill you in a game and the Spurs needed bodies and so he did what he could... but he's played out of position a lot. He has lately played better bc he's played as forward (and I do believe the pressure to shoot and be more aggressive has gotten through his skull a bit).

Still he is what he is so far... and guys will not like him.. so that is fine.

[dabom]

Fathead is trash. Dude is still reluctant to shoot a WIDE OPEN FUCKING 3 in any type of situation much less in the clutch. :lmao

[dabom]

Fathead is a fucking CANCER on offense. :lmao

[GSH]

He takes so few shots that his attempts are a small sample in reality. Simmons is shooting less from 2% land as well as from 3... bc he's taking more jumpshots and creating more of his offense. I believe Kyle is doing more plays off the dribble and having a crazy post up here or there that Pop calls... it's a kind of development to see if he can handle it or not. He takes so few shots that one missed post up alters his percentage dramatically.

I did expect him to make strides with his shooting... bc he shot over 40% over the summer from 3 in over 4 attempts per game and he had not done that in prior summers or even in the dleague... he looked more comfortable shooting. Sadly for whatever reason, despite his improvement as a shooter he's still reluctant to shoot.. though he's gotten pressured and has lately taken shots when he's open.

You have to take into account the spots he's played at and whether they are ideal for him or not (maybe half of his minutes came as a SG... guys played out of position are not going to play that well)... he can do it well enough to not kill you in a game and the Spurs needed bodies and so he did what he could... but he's played out of position a lot. He has lately played better bc he's played as forward (and I do believe the pressure to shoot and be more aggressive has gotten through his skull a bit).

Still he is what he is so far... and guys will not like him.. so that is fine.


He's played about 14 minutes per game. Last year he played 16 minutes per game. But his numbers are almost all down by more than his minutes. (That's why you look at the Per 36 stats.)

A 14 minute per game guy is getting enough minutes to analyze, after half a season. Dedmon is getting 2 minutes a game more, and Bertans is getting 3 minutes per game less. You don't have any trouble analyzing those two guys. And you don't excuse them because of "small sample" problems.

The simple fact is, Kyle hasn't progressed this year. He may not be any worse, but he really needed to be better.

As for that "hater" schtick? You can take that shit somewhere else. I've NEVER participated in that. Labeling anyone who criticizes or analyzes KA's play a hater is you sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending not to hear. I said that Anderson wasn't going to get significant minutes in least year's playoffs, but I really expected him to take a big step up this season. He hasn't done that. Period. That's got nothing to do with hating him.

[dabom]

Remember when people were comparing him to Diaw. :lol

[GSH]

Here, how about this. Anderson is getting 13.7 MPG. In 13-14, Jeff Ayers got 13 minutes per game. Did anyone have any problem analyzing Ayers, and deciding that he sucked? Was that too small of a sample size?

How about we look at Kyle's numbers vs. Ayers, who was getting slightly less MPG?

FGA
Ayers - 2.4
KA - 2.3

TRB
Ayers - 3.5
KA - 2.6

AST
Ayers - .8
KA - 1.0

PTS
Ayers - 4.3
KA - 2.9

EFG% (Takes into account Kyle's "great" 3P shooting percentage)
Ayers - .580
KA - .480


You keep saying what a good player he is, but his numbers say he's Jeff Ayers with a big head. I don't give a shit if they play different positions - Kyle has the ball in his hands a hell of a lot more than Ayers ever did.

[dabom]

O shit. GSH going in. :lmao

[SAGirl]

He's played about 14 minutes per game. Last year he played 16 minutes per game. But his numbers are almost all down by more than his minutes. (That's why you look at the Per 36 stats.)

A 14 minute per game guy is getting enough minutes to analyze, after half a season. Dedmon is getting 2 minutes a game more, and Bertans is getting 3 minutes per game less. You don't have any trouble analyzing those two guys. And you don't excuse them because of "small sample" problems.

The simple fact is, Kyle hasn't progressed this year. He may not be any worse, but he really needed to be better.

As for that "hater" schtick? You can take that shit somewhere else. I've NEVER participated in that. Labeling anyone who criticizes or analyzes KA's play a hater is you sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending not to hear. I said that Anderson wasn't going to get significant minutes in least year's playoffs, but I really expected him to take a big step up this season. He hasn't done that. Period. That's got nothing to do with hating him.
I didn't label you personally a hater. There are haters in this forum though, so I made a general statement.

I am not disputing he hasn't progressed. I said I expected him to shoot more myself and he has disappointed in that respect. In fact I was majorly disappointed by it, more than anyone probably, bc I do root for the guys (the trolls don't care, or would prefer him to suck to stick to their shticks.) I genuinely wanted the guy to play better so for me him passing up shots to start the season was a major disappointment.

At this point, I realize he's never going to be a volume shooter, bc in his mind, his game he's a playmaker.. in that sense unfortunately is like Boris (and b4 you comment about the comparison)... not the same physicality in game, just the mentality, both are guys who prefer to make plays for other ppl and tend to be passive due to the mentality in their game. If you don't put him in spots where he can make plays for others, you are not taking advantage of him and I think he was thrown off his game to start due to that. Playing off Kawhi, Pau, Tony and LMA at time when they themselves were working on their own rhythm and kawhi was nearing 40% usage... that was never going to be about him and he started off poorly himself with a regression to his reluctance to shoot.

Eventually I think the Spurs did put the pressure on him to get himself going and he has had games he's made shots, shot the 3, was cutting and also when he had opportunities on the PnR as a ballhandler, he was making nice passes and decisions. But that has only been very recently and his the bulk of his minutes is still that period, so his stats were going to be skewed. Even in garbage time, the Spurs wanted to see Dejounte, who has used a lot of the possessions (almost 30%).

But I do agree, I expected him to be a more confident shooter and I think him not living up to that expectation hurts the Spurs, quite simply bc he's not as good as he could be and has not reached what ceiling he has as a player due to that and it's a symbiotic relationship... when you have one young guy that is not all that he could be, it affects the team as a whole. He's already a solid player in other areas. Him being just a bit more impactful with taking his shots helps the Spurs when he's playing, and his career as a whole. If you consider this point, you realize that we are not talking about crazy expectations for a guy.