Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1...

[spursistan]

in the discussion"..
831994442068398085

831916160950161408

@ 25:30


Finally someone said it out loud:wakeup..

[Arcadian]

He is. Hardon is a one-way player, WB's team isnt good enough, Curry and Durant have each other, and Lebron is the only other valid choice.

[BillMc]

Nice find. Thanks.

[lilbthebasedgod]

Durant is an objectively better offensive player and is a better defensive player this year.

[SuperCam]

cute regular season player tbh

[NameLess Scrub]

At this point I'll take it. He's stacking 30 pt games, is a great 2 way player, and needs to frequently put the team on his shoulders and be the closer.

[RD2191]

cute regular season player tbh

Cam Newton?

[RD2191]

Durant is an objectively better offensive player and is a better defensive player this year.

:lmao

[Joseph Kony]

Durant is an objectively better offensive player and is a better defensive player this year.
lol

[RD2191]

Dubs won 70+ without KD, how the hell can he be considered the MVP?

[BillMc]

He also mentions Raptors may have to move CJo in the offseason for salary reasons (though he said it mainly as a hypothetical). Wonder if we could get him back and what it would cost?

[Chinook]

Lowe's still trying to figure out why the Spurs aren't in the Celtics' tier like he predicted they would be.

[HarlemHeat37]

He also mentions Raptors may have to move CJo in the offseason for salary reasons (though he said it mainly as a hypothetical). Wonder if we could get him back and what it would cost?

He looks horrible, this season, tbh..his defense is gone and his offensive game has regressed..

[BillMc]

He looks horrible, this season, tbh..

Really? I haven't seen him play except against us (and even then I don't remember what he did).

[Chinook]

Really? I haven't seen him play except against us (and even then I don't remember what he did).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/josepco01.html

The stats look fine. I've certainly heard Raps fans complaining about him, though.

[picnroll]

Durant is an objectively better offensive player and is a better defensive player this year.

Come back when Durant's getting the double and triple teams ever time he touches the ball like Kawhi is.

[TXstbobcat]

He also mentions Raptors may have to move CJo in the offseason for salary reasons (though he said it mainly as a hypothetical). Wonder if we could get him back and what it would cost?

Even if Mills signs somewhere else in the off-season, would trading for Cojo eat into the minutes that Murray will need next year to develop?????

[SAGirl]

He also mentions Raptors may have to move CJo in the offseason for salary reasons (though he said it mainly as a hypothetical). Wonder if we could get him back and what it would cost?
The offseason is going to be interesting bc I think with Manu's retirement Spurs need a truly offensive guard for their bench. I once thought Mills would/could be it but I have doubts now.

ON one hand, Pop likes to keep his guys if they are not exhorbitantly overpriced by the market for a role player, on the other they have made recent moves for FA to supplement offensive production they have lost with retirement or decline from the big 3... and they are overdue to look at FA for a guard. I keep thinking they make a move this offseason for a guard (last couple of seasons spent getting bigs should be enough)..

CoJo doesn't answer Spurs issues though who knows?

[DAF86]

PATFO have their PG plans already set, imho. Unless a star can be had (CP3/Lowry), they are going to roll with TP as starter for what would be the last year of his current contract and Murray as the backup. Mills would probably be too expensive to mantain, tbh.

[bic50]

Cam Newton?
:lol

[bic50]

Durant is an objectively better offensive player and is a better defensive player this year.
Nah

[Bynumite]

Kiwi robbed Draymond of 2 DPOY's. Now he about to start robbing MVP throphies as well smh.

[dabom]

Kiwi robbed Draymond of 2 DPOY's. Now he about to start robbing MVP throphies as well smh.

So for all purposes, you think he is gonna win? :lol

[SupremeGuy]

Cam Newton?:rollin

[BillMc]

Cam Newton?

:lol


Dubs won 70+ without KD, how the hell can he be considered the MVP?

This.

[spursistan]

Lowe also mentioned that Kawhi various defensive metrics have stabilized, but it seems like that click-bait faggot Matt Moore may have caused a permanent damage to his DPOY chances by his widely disseminated article.....We still have a full third of season to go for Kawhi to get himself back in conversation for that award, and we are already #1 defensive team in the league..

* transcript of Lowe case for Kawhi above..

[SAGirl]

PATFO have their PG plans already set, imho. Unless a star can be had (CP3/Lowry), they are going to roll with TP as starter for what would be the last year of his current contract and Murray as the backup. Mills would probably be too expensive to mantain, tbh.
I don't think things will be just handed to Murray. Then on top of that they need a shooter playing next to him which Simmons is not... I still expect the Spurs to add a guard to replace Manu's 3 pt shooting in the bench. They have Forbes as a Patty understudy but I also expect them to get someone else just in case Forbes turn out not an NBA player.... just too many unknown factors for Pop to be comfortable about his bench guards as they are without Manu (and imagining Mills takes a lucrative offer + role elsewhere).
Without Manu and Mills, the bench is not going to be Murray and Forbes or Simmons for example. I expect them to add a veteran to that mix.

[Mr. Body]

Lowe's still trying to figure out why the Spurs aren't in the Celtics' tier like he predicted they would be.

Well, I think he'd say Kawhi Leonard.

[spursistan]

Like him or not, Lowe's quasi endorsement is very important for Kawhi....he is probably the most widely read NBA analyst today, and his opinion is very respected by many in the business..

[tonight...you]

Kiwi robbed Draymond of 2 DPOY's. Now he about to start robbing MVP throphies as well smh.

Stopped watching the Suck-fest called the Lakers and hopped on the Sanny Franny bandwagon, eh?
You're definitely Californian... Just like the rest of 'em.

[tonight...you]

I firmly believe Murray's going to significantly improve his shot.
The kid wants greatness and he listens and works hard for it.

He's going to be big next year.

BIG I tell you!

[SAGirl]

Like him or not, Lowe's quasi endorsement is very important for Kawhi....he is probably the most widely read NBA analyst today, and his opinion is very respected by many in the business..
agreed. :tu

[DAF86]

I don't think things will be just handed to Murray. Then on top of that they need a shooter playing next to him which Simmons is not... I still expect the Spurs to add a guard to replace Manu's 3 pt shooting in the bench. They have Forbes as a Patty understudy but I also expect them to get someone else just in case Forbes turn out not an NBA player.... just too many unknown factors for Pop to be comfortable about his bench guards as they are without Manu (and imagining Mills takes a lucrative offer + role elsewhere).
Without Manu and Mills, the bench is not going to be Murray and Forbes or Simmons for example. I expect them to add a veteran to that mix.

Yep, and that veteran should be a wing/3pt shooter.

[SAGirl]

Yep, and that veteran should be a wing/3pt shooter.
Anyways, I do expect them to add a vet to play with him, who can replace some 3 pt shooting the bench would lose with Manu/Mills exiting... Heck they never replaced Beli and they are still complaining about it. I expect whoever they sign to be a vet guard (who Pops has no problem playing as wings) and a shooter of some sort (can't be Forbes who maybe is like their 3rd string "PG:". I could be wrong of course and one never knows who is going to be willing to sign/for how much/etc.

[SAGirl]

I firmly believe Murray's going to significantly improve his shot.
The kid wants greatness and he listens and works hard for it.

He's going to be big next year.

BIG I tell you!
Heck
I want him to play this season.. my comment is more about replacing some shooting they will be missing. They need an offensive player next to him. I doubt they plop the responsibility on him right off the bat when they didn't do that with Leonard even like that. Going from almost zero.. scarce playing time.. to featured guy? no. Heck... Simmons played more than Dijon did in his rookie season.
Expectations are being adjusted.

[james evans]

Durant is an objectively better offensive player and is a better defensive player this year.
Actually Leonard averages more than Durant and we won't even discuss defense..:lol

[DarrinS]

TGY be like


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBMKARtQReE

[spursistan]

832018980185452545

[Mnky]

Kawhi is going to be so fun to watch for years ahead. Still can't believe how lucky the spurs were to get him.. and bertans. :wow

[tmtcsc]

in the discussion"..
831994442068398085

831916160950161408

@ 25:30


Finally someone said it out loud:wakeup..


Lol @ Don Harris' major fail last year. He said Kawhi was maybe top 5 in a 1 man race for MVP. Kawhi finished 2nd - yes top 5 but he wasn't putting him in the same class as Lebron, Durant, Westbrook or Harden.

[lilbthebasedgod]

Actually Leonard averages more than Durant and we won't even discuss defense..:lol

He also shoots less, and has 1.5 more assists per game and is shooting 53 percent. And if you don't want to go into defense, where it is less close, thats ok

[DAF86]

He also shoots less, and has 1.5 more assists per game and is shooting 53 percent. And if you don't want to go into defense, where it is less close, thats ok

Whose troll is this? :lol

[100%duncan]

If he was in LA with the same record hed be mvp.

[dabom]

If he was in LA with the same record hed be mvp.

[PopTheGOAT]

Cam Newton?
Flamed his ass :lmao

[PopTheGOAT]

832018980185452545
That guy's a dipshit

[bic50]

He also shoots less, and has 1.5 more assists per game and is shooting 53 percent. And if you don't want to go into defense, where it is less close, thats ok
:lol Another troll posing as a Spurs fan.

[PopTheGOAT]

He also shoots less, and has 1.5 more assists per game and is shooting 53 percent. And if you don't want to go into defense, where it is less close, thats ok
Bc there's 3 other all stars to spread the ball to, he gets more open shots due to less attention, like I said, he gets wide open shots, and Kawhi is the 2 time defending dpoy.

Anything else?

[lilbthebasedgod]

:lol Another troll posing as a Spurs fan.

Saying Durant is a great defender and is a better player than kawhi would not be a controversial opinion in any NBA circle except here.

[lilbthebasedgod]

Bc there's 3 other all stars to spread the ball to, he gets more open shots due to less attention, like I said, he gets wide open shots, and Kawhi is the 2 time defending dpoy.

Anything else?
Yes, he was better than kawhi last year when he had all those things. And kawhi is having a down defensive year. Kawhi in the last two years is better than kawhi this year on defense. Kawhi is a better offensive player this year though. Overall he's better I think but its not that different.

[PopTheGOAT]

Yes, he was better than kawhi last year when he had all those things. And kawhi is having a down defensive year. Kawhi in the last two years is better than kawhi this year on defense. Kawhi is a better offensive player this year though. Overall he's better I think but its not that different.
KD has played good defense this year, I'm not blind. But don't forget GS made curry look like a good defender too. They play good team defense. He's not nearly as good of an individual defender as Kawhi. It's not a debate. He's a better offensive player than Kawhi, but he's given up his chance at an MVP by going to GS.

[GSH]

Because yesterday's "Kawhi is the real MVP" thread was worn out. Must start a new one daily.


Westchimp :cry "but..but triple doubles":cry
Har_en :cry "but..but...but the beard":cry

KAWHI is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

Carrying this team when it seems like everyone is slumping AND clamping down on defense.

Media just needs to "Get over themselves" :pop:

[rasuo214]

832018980185452545


I guess it depends on his source. On NBA.com Kawhi's DRating is lower but on BBref Kawhi is among the best on the team (only behind Dedmon and Anderson).

According to NBA.com DRating Patty is a good defender, not so much on BBref.

[mywastedlife900]

cute regular season player tbh

Were talking about NBA champion Kawhi Leonard....Not Cam Newton.

[mywastedlife900]

Saying Durant is a great defender and is a better player than kawhi would not be a controversial opinion in any NBA circle except here.

Were talking MVP. Durant has the reigning MVP on his team. End of discussion.

[NameLess Scrub]

I firmly believe Murray's going to significantly improve his shot.
The kid wants greatness and he listens and works hard for it.

He's going to be big next year.

BIG I tell you!

Wouldn't mind him and Dedmon going Kawhi mode in the offseason and coming all upgraded next season.

[TampaDude]

Were talking about NBA Champion Kawhi Leonard....Not Cam Newton.

NBA Champion and Finals MVP Kawhi Leonard.

[Darth_Pelican]

Cam Newton?

https://media.tenor.co/images/5809cf4d61dc047ff129416fbfc13d66/raw

[PopTheGOAT]

Saying Durant is a great defender and is a better player than kawhi would not be a controversial opinion in any NBA circle except here.
Not saying they are great basketball minds, but the whole TNT crew says Kawhi is the 2nd best player in the world behind Lebron

[PopTheGOAT]

https://media.tenor.co/images/5809cf4d61dc047ff129416fbfc13d66/raw
:rollinPretty much

[BatManu20]

The Kawhi disrespect is real.


832341295519715330

[UZER]

The Kawhi disrespect is real.


832341295519715330

Durant so high is just stupid for all the reasons we've said over and over.

[Joseph Kony]

i kinda wanna put 100 bucks on Kawhi to win the MVP at those 10/1 odds tbh

[PopTheGOAT]

The Kawhi disrespect is real.


832341295519715330
Not enough tbh

[BatManu20]

Not sure why but Memphis is showing Kawhi some love.

832341284433977344

[SpursFan86]

The Kawhi disrespect is real.


832341295519715330

Only person on that list that I think shouldn't be ahead of Kawhi is Durant*

*Not saying I necessarily agree from a basketball standpoint...just talking about strict odds. I think Harden/Westbrook/LeBron are all more likely to win MVP than Kawhi, deserving or not.

[Joseph Kony]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1526263#start_here

look at these tards :lol at least Kawhi is getting recognized by some but a lot of these douchers still buy into the narrative that the spurs have all these pieces propping Kawhi up...when we all know we're fucked without him. werent the spurs like barely .500 in '15 when he missed a good portion of time? imo taking into account the records and talent, Kawhi is the MVP. he may have a better overall team than Westbrook and Harden but they're not playing with scrubs (Kanter/Adams/Dipo are solid, Gordon/Anderson/Capella/Ariza is a great core around Harden) but he is doing more with more albeit not THAT much more. unfortunately spurs rep is hurting Kawhi's case imo, a lot of people still havent realized how meh the team is outside of Kawhi

[jsandiego]

This year, Kawhi has:

1. Outplayed Curry & Durant on opening night in Oakland.
2. Split 2 games vs. Harden. 1st game Harden had a triple double, but also 8 TOs. 2nd game Harden shot 10/25.
3. Scored a career-high 41 and outplayed LeBron James.
4. Scored 36 and outplayed Westbrook in a victory over OKC.

Seems pretty MVP worthy to me.

The remaining games against Houston may be his chance to snatch it from Harden, just like he took the DPOY 2 years ago when he stole Curry's cookies on national TV and had 7 steals.

[Chinook]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1526263#start_here

look at these tards :lol at least Kawhi is getting recognized by some but a lot of these douchers still buy into the narrative that the spurs have all these pieces propping Kawhi up...when we all know we're fucked without him. werent the spurs like barely .500 in '15 when he missed a good portion of time? imo taking into account the records and talent, Kawhi is the MVP. he may have a better overall team than Westbrook and Harden but they're not playing with scrubs (Kanter/Adams/Dipo are solid, Gordon/Anderson/Capella/Ariza is a great core around Harden) but he is doing more with more albeit not THAT much more. unfortunately spurs rep is hurting Kawhi's case imo, a lot of people still havent realized how meh the team is outside of Kawhi

Spurs fans have an uphill climb on RGM. Too many people want to tell us how our team works, which would be interesting except it's almost all parroted bullshit either praising the Spurs or talking about their age. There was a ton of momentum to consider Thomas over Kawhi along with Westbrook, Harden, Lebron and BOTH KD and Curry.

It's so strange that they think the roster is great but when it comes to trade ideas, the Spurs guys don't bring anything back. It's like, which is it?

[BillMc]

David Thorpe says its a toss up between Durant and Kawhi. He says Kawhi is "unguardable" and its impossible to score on KL in isolation (which of course is not literally true, but still...)
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/playPopup?id=18699812

[HarlemHeat37]

Durant shouldn't be anywhere near the MVP conversation:lol

The Warriors have looked significantly better since they began running their offense through Curry again..

[RD2191]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1526263#start_here

look at these tards :lol at least Kawhi is getting recognized by some but a lot of these douchers still buy into the narrative that the spurs have all these pieces propping Kawhi up...when we all know we're fucked without him. werent the spurs like barely .500 in '15 when he missed a good portion of time? imo taking into account the records and talent, Kawhi is the MVP. he may have a better overall team than Westbrook and Harden but they're not playing with scrubs (Kanter/Adams/Dipo are solid, Gordon/Anderson/Capella/Ariza is a great core around Harden) but he is doing more with more albeit not THAT much more. unfortunately spurs rep is hurting Kawhi's case imo, a lot of people still havent realized how meh the team is outside of Kawhi

[DAF86]

This year, Kawhi has:

1. Outplayed Curry & Durant on opening night in Oakland.
2. Split 2 games vs. Harden. 1st game Harden had a triple double, but also 8 TOs. 2nd game Harden shot 10/25.
3. Scored a career-high 41 and outplayed LeBron James.
4. Scored 36 and outplayed Westbrook in a victory over OKC.

Seems pretty MVP worthy to me.

The remaining games against Houston may be his chance to snatch it from Harden, just like he took the DPOY 2 years ago when he stole Curry's cookies on national TV and had 7 steals.

Kawhi is 2-1 over Harden, tbh.

[Thomas82]

This year, Kawhi has:

1. Outplayed Curry & Durant on opening night in Oakland.
2. Split 2 games vs. Harden. 1st game Harden had a triple double, but also 8 TOs. 2nd game Harden shot 10/25.
3. Scored a career-high 41 and outplayed LeBron James.
4. Scored 36 and outplayed Westbrook in a victory over OKC.

Seems pretty MVP worthy to me.

The remaining games against Houston may be his chance to snatch it from Harden, just like he took the DPOY 2 years ago when he stole Curry's cookies on national TV and had 7 steals.

Also, neither of those players have Kawhi's workload on defense. Him being the best 2-way player should count for something.

[rasuo214]

If Kawhi maintains the pace and play that he's had since January then he should win MVP.

[BillMc]

Durant shouldn't be anywhere near the MVP conversation:lol

The Warriors have looked significantly better since they began running their offense through Curry again..

Agree. KD shouldn't have a realistic chance.

[HarlemHeat37]

Harden is a lock, tbh..he has everything working for him, including narrative, which is arguably the most important factor..

Houston is 40-18, despite not having a single player that has ever been an All-Star..also, they only have 1 player shooting above 40% from 3 IIRC..they have the 26th ranked bench(or somewhere around there), too, compared to the Spurs' 2nd ranked unit..also, while I believe D'Antoni is underrated and has been done a disservice by joining 2 overrated franchises with horrible front offices(Knicks and Lakers), he's still viewed as a gimmick coach by most media members..on the other side, Pop is seen as a coaching God that makes magic with every player he touches:lol

[dabom]

Harden is a lock, tbh..he has everything working for him, including narrative, which is arguably the most important factor..

Houston is 40-18, despite not having a single player that has ever been an All-Star..also, they only have 1 player shooting above 40% from 3 IIRC..they have the 26th ranked bench(or somewhere around there), too, compared to the Spurs' 2nd ranked unit..also, while I believe D'Antoni is underrated and has been done a disservice by joining 2 overrated franchises with horrible front offices(Knicks and Lakers), he's still viewed as a gimmick coach by most media members..on the other side, Pop is seen as a coaching God that makes magic with every player he touches:lol

If Kawhi beats Lebron Warriors once and the last houston game, Kawhi gets it.

[HarlemHeat37]

If Kawhi beats Lebron Warriors once and the last houston game, Kawhi gets it.

I don't think the Houston game will matter(maybe if Harden completely collapses in that game, I suppose), but I'll believe in Kawhi's chances if the Spurs beat the Warriors again(since nobody really thinks the 1st game was significant, for obvious reasons)..if SA beats Golden State and Kawhi dominates, the hype will begin IMO..

[Benoit]

MVP???? of the league???? hahahahaha

you could replace him with paul george or melo and spurs wouldnt look any different

he doesn't even play good defense anymore from what i heard lmao

[SpursFan86]

I don't think the Houston game will matter(maybe if Harden completely collapses in that game, I suppose), but I'll believe in Kawhi's chances if the Spurs beat the Warriors again(since nobody really thinks the 1st game was significant, for obvious reasons)..if SA beats Golden State and Kawhi dominates, the hype will begin IMO..

Agreed...for Kawhi to really have a legitimate shot at MVP, he'll need to have huge statement games against GS/Cleveland. Otherwise Harden or LeBron will win it.

I still think LeBron will get credit for last year's playoffs/Finals. Media will be thinking "Remember when we gave Curry MVP last year and then LeBron showed he was still the best player in the league?"...that will help his chances.

[HarlemHeat37]

^^The Love injury will help Lebron's case, if the Cavs continue to win at a high rate(which they will, since Love's impact during the RS isn't as high as perceived)..

[skulls138]

Im glad Kawhi isnt being considered because MVP is never about "value" to a team. Its about stats. If it were really Most Valuable Player, Kawhi should win easily. Other than players coached by Phil Jackson, players with gaudy numbers dont win titles because the rest of the team isnt involved.

[UZER]

LeBron also has very little years, if any, at this level.

We've all heard, LeBron SHOULD get it every year. With his MVP years short, he's the front runner this year, IMO.

[BillMc]

As I said in previous threads, the fact that the MVP won't be announced until after the season is over takes a lot of the fun and drama out of it. Now its just an award and won't really matter too much if the MVP's team didn't win it all. Before it wratched up the pressure (and envy) for some good theater.

[TampaDude]

MVP???? of the league???? hahahahaha

you could replace him with paul george or melo and spurs wouldnt look any different

he doesn't even play good defense anymore from what i heard lmao

You're a faggot poster with a faggot avatar. Go kill your mother for giving birth to such an unbelievable faggot as yourself.

[RD2191]

You're a faggot poster with a faggot avatar. Go kill your mother for giving birth to such an unbelievable faggot as yourself.

:bobo

[SpursforSix]

You're a faggot poster with a faggot avatar. Go kill your mother for giving birth to such an unbelievable faggot as yourself.

hold on Benoit...please wait until after the weekend

[TheDoctor]

As I said in previous threads, the fact that the MVP won't be announced until after the season is over takes a lot of the fun and drama out of it. Now its just an award and won't really matter too much if the MVP's team didn't win it all. Before it wratched up the pressure (and envy) for some good theater.
This cant be truer. It definitely takes a lot drama snd narratives out of it. Like Curry's first-ever unanimous MVP playing for the "best" regular season team in history and didnt ring :lol

[UZER]

The NBA doesn't want there league / player to look bad so giving it out after the season saves some face if that player gets loses in the playoffs after receiving the award.

[TheDoctor]

The NBA doesn't want there league / player to look bad so giving it out after the season saves some face if that player gets loses in the playoffs after receiving the award.

Yeah definitely; very anticlimactic.

[TampaDude]

The NBA doesn't want there league / player to look bad so giving it out after the season saves some face if that player gets loses in the playoffs after receiving the award.

Today's NBA :lol

[DAF86]

The NBA doesn't want there league / player to look bad so giving it out after the season saves some face if that player gets loses in the playoffs after receiving the award.

Imho, they want to make that "awards" show to make even more money, without realizing that fans will give zero fucks to those awards once the season is over. I expect that shit to last 2 or 3 years.

[Play Boban]

He sure isn't the MVP of the All Star Game. Believe me. :lmao

[Benoit]

lmao Spurs look so much better without him

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine) 4m (https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/838445815970541568) Harden and Westbrook are the consensus MVP faves, but no one out West was finer in Trimester 2 than Kawhi Leonard -> espn.com/blog/marc-stei… (https://t.co/9InxTVX2I5)

[bklynspursfan]

Jeff Van Gundy just said Kawhi is his MVP

[BatManu20]

Van Gundy making his case for Kawhi as MVP on national television right now, and Mark Jackson immediately shoots the notion down like a dumbass.

[DPG21920]

Mark Jackson is an all time idiot.

[Robz4000]

:lol Reverend Jackson still asspained over the Spurs shitting all over him in 2013 and taking his job in 2014

[FkLA]

It's amazing how out of the loop some of these analysts are when it comes to Kawhi. He isn't just a guy who belongs in the discussion--he's thee MVP. Even Collins, whom I've always liked, showed how little he watches Kawhi a couple days ago when he was shocked to find out Kawhi was a 90% FT shooter.

[Ice009]

Van Gundy making his case for Kawhi as MVP on national television right now, and Mark Jackson immediately shoots the notion down like a dumbass.

Did Mark Jackson discuss it with that stripper friend of his and his wife? What a fake ass clown this guy is.

[gospursgojas]

Mark Jackson offers nothing as a commentator but hyperbole and wannabe catchphrases that never stick. His coaching was the same.

[BillMc]

Van Gundy making his case for Kawhi as MVP on national television right now, and Mark Jackson immediately shoots the notion down like a dumbass.

What were Jackson's reasons, if any?

[DPG21920]

What were Jackson's reasons, if any?

Literally nothing. It was (pretty much verbatim): "You can say that Kawhi is in the discussion, but he's not really. He's not winning".

JVG: "why not? He's a great defensive player, SA has over achieved when you look at the position they are in and he's become a great offensive player too. so why not"

Mark: "are you serious, just because he's not. I mean, what Harden and WB are doing is amazing. Their numbers are amazing"

JVG: "aren't Kawhis? Don't you value defense and winning"

Mark: Im not going to argue this

JVG: Then stop arguing.

Literally the basic entire conversation.

[will_spurs]

What were Jackson's reasons, if any?

Russell Westbrick and James "no D" Harden are having historical seasons...

To which (from memory) JVG replied: "whatever these guys are doing, Kawhi is doing the same if not more because he's just as great on offense and also the best defender in the league."

[dabom]

Russell Westbrick and James "no D" Harden are having historical seasons...

To which (from memory) JVG replied: "whatever these guys are doing, Kawhi is doing the same if not more because he's just as great on offense and also the best defender in the league."

Does he know what he's talking about though? Kawhi hurts the Spurs defense...

[BillMc]

Literally nothing. It was (pretty much verbatim): "You can say that Kawhi is in the discussion, but he's not really. He's not winning".

JVG: "why not? He's a great defensive player, SA has over achieved when you look at the position they are in and he's become a great offensive player too. so why not"

Mark: "are you serious, just because he's not. I mean, what Harden and WB are doing is amazing. Their numbers are amazing"

JVG: "aren't Kawhis? Don't you value defense and winning"

Mark: Im not going to argue this

JVG: Then stop arguing.

Literally the basic entire conversation.


Russell Westbrick and James "no D" Harden are having historical seasons...

To which (from memory) JVG replied: "whatever these guys are doing, Kawhi is doing the same if not more because he's just as great on offense and also the best defender in the league."

Thanks. So basically it's just Kawhi isn't the "cool kid". He's just another SA good-guy nerd like TD and DRob before him. :lol

Media lemmings...

[DPG21920]

Thanks. So basically it's just Kawhi isn't the "cool kid". He's just another SA good-guy nerd like TD and DRob before him. :lol

Media lemmings...

Ya - it was truly painful to listen to Mark stammer when JVG pressed him for any detail.

[will_spurs]

Ya - it was truly painful to listen to Mark stammer when JVG pressed him for any detail.

The "then stop arguing" line was just great.

[$pursDynasty]

The fact that it is being argued at all is a step in the right direction, a few weeks ago, either Harden or Westbrook getting the MVP was just as much of a fait accompli as the Dubs and Cavs meeting in the finals to hear a majority of ESPN and the talking heads tell it....oh wait this just in

[DPG21920]

The "then stop arguing" line was just great.

It was - JVG put him to bed pretty quickly.

[UZER]

It's amazing how out of the loop some of these analysts are when it comes to Kawhi. He isn't just a guy who belongs in the discussion--he's thee MVP. Even Collins, whom I've always liked, showed how little he watches Kawhi a couple days ago when he was shocked to find out Kawhi was a 90% FT shooter.

Not to be whining spurs fan, but oh what the hell...

Collins gives zero fucks about the Spurs. If it's not someone that's flashy like MJ or Kobe, he acts so disinterested.

[coachmac87]

I think it's between Westbrook and Kawhi...

Harden is having a great year..but is it because he's improved as a player? Or just benefiting from Pringles system?? Trust me the numbers are great and they're winning..but I feel we have seen this before.

Westbrook is having a season for the ages...he's literally averaging a triple double and could take a lottery team to the 5th seed??? He plays both sides of the court..but some could say his usage rate is soooo high his numbers can be misleading.. If they stay at 7th seed it'd be tough to give him votes over Kawhi.

Kawhi is having a career year. And yes this if following Duncan's retirement and it sounds to good to be true..but 60+ wins?? You couldn't draw it up any better tbh. What's crazy is we've kinda seen the performances from Harden/Westbrook before..they've just been consistent. But 50/40/90 and if they get #1 seed he should be a lock..

[DPG21920]

Look, the case for Kawhi for MVP is not to knock Harden/WB/Lebron. They are all actually having MVP level seasons. This is just a year where there are 4-5 players doing truly incredible things - it just so happens that one of them, Kawhi, is a great player on both ends on a team that has both disappointed (meaning some people's level of play) and overachieved (within striking distance of a super team record wise).

[coachmac87]

Look, the case for Kawhi for MVP is not to knock Harden/WB/Lebron. They are all actually having MVP level seasons. This is just a year where there are 4-5 players doing truly incredible things - it just so happens that one of them, Kawhi, is a great player on both ends on a team that has both disappointed (meaning some people's level of play) and overachieved (within striking distance of a super team record wise).



How have the Spurs disappointed so far?

[DPG21920]

How have the Spurs disappointed so far?

It was in the () meaning the disappointment was in the context of players like TP/Manu averaging career low in points, LMA averaging lowest points since his rookie year, Danny Green struggling on offense, etc..then still having a shot at the best record in the league despite having a healthy amount of injuries.

[coachmac87]

It was in the () meaning the disappointment was in the context of players like TP/Manu averaging career low in points, LMA averaging lowest points since his rookie year, Danny Green struggling on offense, etc..then still having a shot at the best record in the league despite having a healthy amount of injuries.

Ok I totally agree with all that...

But it seriously makes you wonder..What would the narrative be on this board or across the media if the Spurs didn't have early struggles at home and if Pau didn't get hurt? What if they were tied or ahead of the Warriors before the Durant injury??

I think it totally changes the narrative all across the board..

[DPG21920]

This is a massive week for Kawhi's MVP case: SA plays HOU tonight, then OKC and GS later in the week.

[GSH]

Today's NBA :lol


Ok I totally agree with all that...

But it seriously makes you wonder..What would the narrative be on this board or across the media if the Spurs didn't have early struggles at home and if Pau didn't get hurt? What if they were tied or ahead of the Warriors before the Durant injury??

I think it totally changes the narrative all across the board..


So most of us saw the AS game, or at least parts of it. But you don't need anything more than the 192-182 final score. So the league and the Players' Union are talking about ways to make the game better. And they are actually discussing things like 4-point shots. Because what's missing is obviously more ridiculous hero-ball offense. I thought at first Silver must be joking, but turns out he wasn't.

No, I don't think that winning a few more of those early home games would divert the discussion from Harden and Westbrook. They ARE today's NBA. That's the product the league is selling. And a lot of us are clearly not the market they are selling to.

[coachmac87]

So most of us saw the AS game, or at least parts of it. But you don't need anything more than the 192-182 final score. So the league and the Players' Union are talking about ways to make the game better. And they are actually discussing things like 4-point shots. Because what's missing is obviously more ridiculous hero-ball offense. I thought at first Silver must be joking, but turns out he wasn't.

No, I don't think that winning a few more of those early home games would divert the discussion from Harden and Westbrook. They ARE today's NBA. That's the product the league is selling. And a lot of us are clearly not the market they are selling to.

So you don't think the Spurs having a better record than the Warriors for majority of season doesn't change the narrative? Even with the great seasons Kawhi/Harden/WB are having...the greatness of the Warriors has been the talk of the media/league..

Just puts things in perspective how great of a year the Spurs/Kawhi are having tbh.

[NameLess Scrub]

Mark Jackson probably wasn't ready to analyze Kawhi's merits and went all "duh WB's and Harden's numbers" in that situation.

[GSH]

So you don't think the Spurs having a better record than the Warriors for majority of season doesn't change the narrative? Even with the great seasons Kawhi/Harden/WB are having...the greatness of the Warriors has been the talk of the media/league..

Just puts things in perspective how great of a year the Spurs/Kawhi are having tbh.


I think it SHOULD. I don't think it will. Unless you mean the narrative on ST, or with a select few analysts.

Harden and Westbrook have gaudy numbers. Try and have a discussion about how many shots it takes for Westbrook to get those numbers, and you'll get nowhere. And Harden has a pretty damn good record to go with his slightly less gaudy numbers.

I said before, Harden and Westbrook are the product the NBA is selling. Do I think Kawhi has a good case for MVP? Sure. Last year I thought Curry was the right choice for 1st place. But this year, Kawhi is better. His offensive numbers are close enough to the other two, and on the defensive end it isn't even close.

[Thomas82]

Kawhi's 26.1 PPG is the highest for the Spurs since David Robinson in his MVP season.

[coachmac87]

I think it SHOULD. I don't think it will. Unless you mean the narrative on ST, or with a select few analysts.

Harden and Westbrook have gaudy numbers. Try and have a discussion about how many shots it takes for Westbrook to get those numbers, and you'll get nowhere. And Harden has a pretty damn good record to go with his slightly less gaudy numbers.

I said before, Harden and Westbrook are the product the NBA is selling. Do I think Kawhi has a good case for MVP? Sure. Last year I thought Curry was the right choice for 1st place. But this year, Kawhi is better. His offensive numbers are close enough to the other two, and on the defensive end it isn't even close.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. EVERYTHING in the NBA revolves around the Warriors. They're the greatest team ever assembled..with the 2x MVP they are the standard and the measuring stick for the rest of the league. If the Spurs had the Warriors record and Kawhi putting up the numbers he'd be the favorite to win MVP. Because you wouldn't have predicted that narrative in the offseason.

If Harden/Westbrook had the best record the same would be said for them. And I dunno what's this "Today's NBA" has anything to do with them. They're doing things we haven't seen with WB averaging a triple double and Harden averaging 30/13...the only reason why it's not a forgone conclusion is because of the Warriors success and Kawhi leading his team to 60+ wins.

Records matter in the MVP equation...in which if the Spurs would've had the best record all year Kawhi would've been in the headlines regarding MVP awhile ago. Only reason its getting traction now is he's on the Warriors heels and the media can't ignore it.

[spurraider21]

This is a massive week for Kawhi's MVP case: SA plays HOU tonight, then OKC and GS later in the week.
Damn, didn't notice that.

[$pursDynasty]

Damn, didn't notice that.
with a good week for the Spurs, the narrative will take a full 180 degrees when it comes to the MVP. The "who is going to win the title" narrative could look completely different come this time next week.

[bklynspursfan]

838856112359239683

[GSH]

Records matter in the MVP equation...in which if the Spurs would've had the best record all year Kawhi would've been in the headlines regarding MVP awhile ago. Only reason its getting traction now is he's on the Warriors heels and the media can't ignore it.


Like when Nash won it on a 54-win team, when there were two 60 win teams in the Western Conference, and one in the East? Of course records matter. So do stats, and highlight reel plays, market size, and fan favorites. And the narrative. This year, there's a guy AVERAGING a freaking triple-double. There's nothing the new NBA (which you say you don't understand) would like more than a narrative like that. They can talk about this being one of the great NBA seasons of all time, and bring up Oscar Robertson, and a bunch of similar shit. It's made-for-TV.

Your question was whether winning a few more home games at the beginning of the season, and Pau not getting injured, would have changed the MVP narrative. If you don't want opinions, don't fucking ask. You have an opinion, and I have an opinion. Let it go at that. We'll see soon enough who was right.

[DAF86]

I don't think it's unfair to say that Kawhi would have gotten a lot more MVP buzz from the get go had the Spurs been the number 1 team in the league since the beginning, tbh.

[GSH]

So you don't think the Spurs having a better record than the Warriors for majority of season doesn't change the narrative?


Spurs record might not change it, but THAT performance head-to-head with Harden damn sure could. That was an MVP caliber performance in anybody's book.

I'll be happy to be wrong about this one. :toast

[UZER]

Spurs record might not change it, but THAT performance head-to-head with Harden damn sure could. That was an MVP caliber performance in anybody's book.

I'll be happy to be wrong about this one. :toast

That block might be the difference.

[cd98]

People have forgotten that Tim retired and the Spurs are still great bc of Kawhi.

[TheDoctor]

"Nah, man Ross or Harden for MV..."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6SXiCgUsAAhHvn.jpg

[PopTheGOAT]

Damn, didn't notice that.
Check the schedule for the rest of the season tbh

[will_spurs]

That game is going to leave a mark.

[GSH]

This is a massive week for Kawhi's MVP case: SA plays HOU tonight, then OKC and GS later in the week.

Well if he has two more performances like tonight, he could step right to the top of nearly everybody's list. The way he's played in the last several games, he's just doing whatever it takes - literally - to keep his team from losing. That's what an MVP does, and has to do.

There was a possession before that 3 where Kawhi just made it clear he wasn't going to be denied. Everyone on the floor knew he was coming, and he still shoved it up their ass. Throw in that incredible block, and that's just super-elite play at both ends of the floor.

[UZER]

Well if he has two more performances like tonight, he could step right to the top of nearly everybody's list. The way he's played in the last several games, he's just doing whatever it takes - literally - to keep his team from losing. That's what an MVP does, and has to do.

There was a possession before that 3 where Kawhi just made it clear he wasn't going to be denied. Everyone on the floor knew he was coming, and he still shoved it up their ass. Throw in that incredible block, and that's just super-elite play at both ends of the floor.

Nobody expected Kawhi to be this good.... nobody.

With that said, as good as he's been, I've still had my little doubts about him. Not about being really good, but being next level superstar good, even after everything he's done. I was just looking for that "it" kinda deal. Tonight took those doubts away. He dug deep and just refused to let his team lose on both ends.

I have no words man.

[GSH]

Nobody expected Kawhi to be this good.... nobody.

With that said, as good as he's been, I've still had my little doubts about him. Not about being really good, but being next level superstar good, even after everything he's done. I was just looking for that "it" kinda deal. Tonight took those doubts away. He dug deep and just refused to let his team lose on both ends.

I have no words man.


I'm about to give it a rest for the night, but you hit on something I was thinking about. You remember the '14 Finals when Kawhi won MVP. He wasn't under-rated before that so much as he just literally took a big step up.

I think he's done it again in the last week or however long it's been. He'd steadily improved since then. But this last few games, he's just become one of those rare guys who can just put a whole team on his back and refuse to lose. He was a top 3-4 player this year, without any question. But this thing we've seen recently is something different, and a step into another orbit.

I know some people will disagree and say he's been this good all season. But this is more than just great play. He's been taking hopeless games and turning them into W's by dominating both ends of the floor. To me, it really feels like the leap he took in '14, which is scary.


Edit: Give credit where it's due. FkLA's thread about him being the closest thing to Jordan was right. Maybe he just saw it sooner.

[FkLA]

838965645840642048

[will_spurs]

I know some people will disagree and say he's been this good all season. But this is more than just great play. He's been taking hopeless games and turning them into W's by dominating both ends of the floor. To me, it really feels like the leap he took in '14, which is scary.

I feel the same. The last few games were just all close victories from behind with Kawhi willing his team to a win. He's a lot more confident and assertive than he used to be, that's for sure. That 3 to win the game tonight was just clutch AF, then the block.

He also had some games where he would disappear or at least his presence wouldn't really be felt. The string of 30+ points games just shows he's moved on to another level.

[spursistan]

838969204061564928

Ziller is one of the best NBA writers out there..

[spursistan]

The Spurs are 8-1 vs BOS/GSW/HOU/OKC/CLE

Kawhi averages in those games: 30.8 PPG/5.8 RPG/ 3.6 APG/ 2.1 SPG

[ducks]

Wow

[r0drig0lac]

real mvp

[spursistan]

838964201980899328

Such a narrative, recency-bias driven award :lol ..Kawhi certainly garnered a lot of votes last night..

PS..D Wade is real nigga and always been Kawhi fan..remember him giving props to Leonard in his post-2013 Finals press conference..

[$pursDynasty]

The Spurs are 8-1 vs BOS/GSW/HOU/OKC/CLE

Kawhi averages in those games: 30.8 PPG/5.8 RPG/ 3.6 APG/ 2.1 SPG
scream this from the housetops, NO ONE is mentioning this!!!

[TheDoctor]

838964201980899328

Such a narrative, recency-bias driven award :lol ..Kawhi certainly garnered a lot of votes last night..

PS..D Wade is real nigga and always been Kawhi fan..remember him giving props to Leonard in his post-2013 Finals press conference..

So true, Twitter literally exploded. It felt like a virtual euphoric New Years Eve party. The love for Kawhi and the Spurs was something else.

[sasaint]

That game is going to leave a mark.

I hope so, but marks can be erased. OKC and the Dubs can be big erasers.

[sasaint]

The Spurs are 8-1 vs BOS/GSW/HOU/OKC/CLE

Kawhi averages in those games: 30.8 PPG/5.8 RPG/ 3.6 APG/ 2.1 SPG

:wow Very Impressive.

[spursistan]

839213270640648192

This "oh triple doubles!" narrative as the clincher has been a pathetic dominant theme in the MVP RACE.. :lol

[BatManu20]

838964201980899328

Such a narrative, recency-bias driven award :lol ..Kawhi certainly garnered a lot of votes last night..

PS..D Wade is real nigga and always been Kawhi fan..remember him giving props to Leonard in his post-2013 Finals press conference..

Yep. He and Lebron both did, although neither could have imagined how good he would become. I think LeBron is little salty over it to be honest

[$pursDynasty]

was looking at the front page of ESPN just now, Westbrook's 58 can't bail out OKC. It appears the Russ' stats being like empty calories narrative seems to be growing. Ah 58 points that's nice but it didn't get him a win. Win totals is starting to become something people are paying more attention to.

[GSH]

The award isn't HSP - Highest Scoring Player. It isn't BSP - Best Stats Player.

The award is Most Valuable Player. To me, the guy who wins games is pretty damn valuable. Maybe ESPN thinks it's who can get the most valuable marketing deal?

[Joseph Kony]

even the retards on realgm are taking notice :wow

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1518385******=740

[Thomas82]

even the retards on realgm are taking notice :wow

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1518385******=740

Wow!!!

[MR-Clutch]

I'll post this again because it's such a good read. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/nba/2017/03/07/kawhi-leonard-mvp-case-spurs-james-harden-russell-westbrook%3Fsource%3Ddam

[BatManu20]

I'll post this again because it's such a good read. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/nba/2017/03/07/kawhi-leonard-mvp-case-spurs-james-harden-russell-westbrook%3Fsource%3Ddam

I dig. Long way to go though. Really need to steal that 1-seed.

[spurraider21]

What's the deal with his defensive on/off numbers though?

[DAF86]

What's the deal with his defensive on/off numbers though?

My guess is all that rest against shitty teams and in garbage time. Plus Anderson (his natural replacement) being pretty damn good on defense, specially against fellow scrubs, tbh.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLEdPv7ClPo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_MhvsEKafE

[spursistan]

He could be back on Monday vs the Hawks, per Pop..

Kawhi narrative will get a major boost if he balls out and lead us to the Top seed with LMA now missing few weeks...

[dabom]

He could be back on Monday vs the Hawks, per Pop..

Kawhi narrative will get a major boost if he balls out and lead us to the Top seed with LMA now missing few weeks...

Are you gonna call him Kwobe if he shoots worse and we don't get the top seed. :lmao

[Seventyniner]

He could be back on Monday vs the Hawks, per Pop..

Kawhi narrative will get a major boost if he balls out and lead us to the Top seed with LMA now missing few weeks...

That's big news. Glad to hear this injury wasn't all that serious.

[loveforthegame]

841652891999952896

[spursistan]

842433481791569924

Kawhi is third in this WP poll..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7DpeSNUwAEfXpv.jpg

[Seventyniner]

842433481791569924

Kawhi is third in this WP poll..

A plausible scenario.

Hopefully Harden wins and Kawhi destroys the Rockets in the conference finals.

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi is not going to win despite having the better season team wise and individually. This has been on pf the best season Two Way performances I have ever seen..Rivaling Lebron MVP years.

No matter, if the spurs reach the confrence finals this year and he shows ip..the narrative will tilt to his favour with unsually high "apology" votes for next year.

MVP is all about narratives.

It only hurts because it would be nice to see Leonard Win Multiple MVPs and a championship to catapult himself to Top 10 all time status.

[GSH]

I think the last few games have dented Kawhi's chances of winning either the MVP or the DPOY. It shouldn't be that way, but it probably is.

But as much as I think he is under-rated, that play in the last seconds against the T-Wolves? Remember? The Spurs inbounded the ball, and he just curled up and let the trap cover him up? I don't know if he assume they would foul him, and Pop got a timeout called just in time. But that came within a half second of being a jump ball, and giving the 'Wolves their only chance of getting back into that game.

I was talking to a friend tonight whose opinion I respect, and he said that (his opinion) Westbrook/Harden/LeBron wouldn't have let that happen in that situation. At the very least, those guys would have forced Minnesota to foul them. And in honesty, I couldn't disagree. For all of Kawhi's strengths, and there are a lot of those, he's still got some limitations in that kind of situation. That, more than anything, is probably going to keep him out of the final consideration for MVP this year.

He's worked hard and improved every offseason. If he does it again this year, he's a strong contender next year. I don't think his is this year, unless he does something crazy in the next few weeks, and the others fall off.

[Fireball]

each bad 3 point shot he currently takes costs him a vote ... its ugly

[SAGirl]

To add to what Apalisoc said ... and some by GSH... it's the first season Kawhi is this explosive of a scorer on a consistent basis and the team is undoubtedly his. It was last season too, but Lamarcus was getting integrated and Timmy was still in the team. This season Kawhi is the leader and there's no doubt. He's also so good offensively that there's no doubt he's not only the best Spur, but that he should be in the MVP short list. Should he shine in the playoffs with a Spur deep run, plus he continue on this path or better next year he would undoubtedly climb that wall to MVP ... I think he could have been it this season but there's something to be said about narratives and Spurs didn't have one going for him though him being the Spurs epicenter now that TD retired and the only all star of a team this good should count for something.

[spurraider21]

after the houston game he got national attention and was in the spotlight, he needed to capitalize on the attention and didn't. got hurt unfortunately against okc and hasn't had the explosive games he's needed to continue the hype. hardens gonna win

[SAGirl]

after the houston game he got national attention and was in the spotlight, he needed to capitalize on the attention and didn't. got hurt unfortunately against okc and hasn't had the explosive games he's needed to continue the hype. hardens gonna win
That's a good point.

[spursistan]

Harden will win the MVP..If the Rockets go 2-0 in their next two home games vs OKC/GSW, it's probably a wrap...

[SPURt]

A little mailbag fun with Bull Shittons:

https://theringer.com/the-no-sleep-till-the-nba-playoffs-mailbag-5fc89d3ff889#.3by52sx6g


Q: Tom Haberstroh (who I like) , “This @kpelton piece tackles Kawhi’s MVP’s credentials, including the overrated concept of “BEST TWO-WAY PLAYER.” It’s now overrated to be the league’s best two-way player? When did we decide this?
— Jack Lewis

BS: It’s not overrated if the league’s best two-way player doubles as (a) one of the NBA’s six or seven best offensive players by any metric; (b) one of the NBA’s three best defensive players; (c) the only All-Star on a top-4 contender cruising for 62-plus wins; (d) the only active star who can say, “I outplayed LeBron head-to-head in the NBA Finals when I wasn’t even in my prime yet”; (e) the only current NBA star who can successfully defend Westbrook, Harden, LeBron, Durant, and Davis; (f) one of the two best perimeter defenders I’ve ever seen in my freaking life; and (g) our only NBA star who can say, “There’s 40 seconds left in Game 7 and it’s tied — I’m gonna score on LeBron, and then I’m gonna stop him from scoring” (and actually believe it).

[Gagnrath]

Durant might well believe it.... He's done for this year till the second round, but his defense was actually good this year. Partially because he has putting forth energy and partially because he is playing more as a big than a wing on defense.

[Thomas82]

A little mailbag fun with Bull Shittons:

https://theringer.com/the-no-sleep-till-the-nba-playoffs-mailbag-5fc89d3ff889#.3by52sx6g


Q: Tom Haberstroh (who I like) , “This @kpelton piece tackles Kawhi’s MVP’s credentials, including the overrated concept of “BEST TWO-WAY PLAYER.” It’s now overrated to be the league’s best two-way player? When did we decide this?
— Jack Lewis

BS: It’s not overrated if the league’s best two-way player doubles as (a) one of the NBA’s six or seven best offensive players by any metric; (b) one of the NBA’s three best defensive players; (c) the only All-Star on a top-4 contender cruising for 62-plus wins; (d) the only active star who can say, “I outplayed LeBron head-to-head in the NBA Finals when I wasn’t even in my prime yet”; (e) the only current NBA star who can successfully defend Westbrook, Harden, LeBron, Durant, and Davis; (f) one of the two best perimeter defenders I’ve ever seen in my freaking life; and (g) our only NBA star who can say, “There’s 40 seconds left in Game 7 and it’s tied — I’m gonna score on LeBron, and then I’m gonna stop him from scoring” (and actually believe it).


I'm loving that response.

[spursistan]

So, yeah this dude from NBA.COM has already ruled Kawhi and Russ out of it, but still has Lebron candidate for MVP when his team has won less games in March than the fuckin Nets :lol..

GTFOH...He goes at it with Marc Stein ...

845825760308969473

[SPURt]

So, yeah this dude from NBA.COM has already ruled Kawhi and Russ out of it, but still has Lebron candidate for MVP when his team has won less games in March than the fuckin Nets :lol..

GTFOH...He goes at it with Marc Stein ...

845825760308969473
Weak argument, depth? Wasn't there a post somewhere saying the Rockets have the deepest team in the league?

[playbonner15]

Harden's gonna win it

[Ice009]

I think Harden thinks he should have won it two years ago when Curry won his first one. I don't know where he finished in the MVP voting that season, but I think they might give it to him.

I wonder how Westbrook would feel about that. Both Durant and Harden winning an MVP trophy, and he gets nothing while also being on a worse team. I can't believe all 3 were on the same team, and from what I recall, Harden had no problem with his role off the bench. OKC really fucked that up.

[GSH]

Article on NBA.com: http://www.nba.com/article/2017/03/22/blogtable-how-will-rockets-thunder-showdown-affect-mvp-chase


This article, like every other discussion I've see/heard for the last week or more, doesn't even mention Kawhi. Some people say Westbrook, because of the triple double. Some say Harden, because he's anchoring the league's second best offense. One person mentioned LeBron. But Kawhi isn't even getting mentioned in the discussion anymore.

Doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, this is pretty much how the voting is going to go, I think. I really thought Kawhi might get enough second place votes to actually finish second, but it's looking more like 1-2 will be either Harden or Westbrook. And I wouldn't be surprised to even see LeBron third.

[TD 21]

So, yeah this dude from NBA.COM has already ruled Kawhi and Russ out of it, but still has Lebron candidate for MVP when his team has won less games in March than the fuckin Nets :lol..

GTFOH...He goes at it with Marc Stein ...

845825760308969473

Even though they're often more informed than the talking (more like, shouting) heads, this is the problem with a lot of the stat geeks. In addition to being snobs, they're so desperate to be cutting edge and original, that as soon as something becomes mainstream, they want to distance themselves from it.


:lmao At that biased, whining hypocrite Van Gundy picking Harden. This from a guy who constantly harps about valuing winning and defense . . . I guess those things don't matter when a Rocket is involved.

[TheGreatYacht]

Stat geeks are the worst thing to ever happen to the game of basketball. Failed to make varsity in their senior years because they were 5'6.... So they tried their hardest to be relevant by pushing out these fake news metrics

[Spur Bank]

Stat geeks are the worst thing to ever happen to the game of basketball. Failed to make varsity in their senior years because they were 5'6.... So they tried their hardest to be relevant by pushing out these fake news metrics
Totally agree! The relevant people are those who pump out 20,000+ posts of pure liquid s**t.

Edit to add: It's ironic because it's not even a joke. You actually are relevant in my life. I log in to spurstalk.com I see your name and I think Oh jeeze that idiot who spends his life online posted something dumb yet again. But you see a stats geek like me who does other things besides post online and you have no idea who I am.

[spursistan]

Impressive performance by Kawhi outdueling Lebron just as some fools were ready to drop him out of the MVP race...

Dubs and Thunder are next..Feels like the two most crucial two games left for him to get more MVP VOTES traction---and the Spurs, for that matter, in the Top seed race, which is essentially the second most important argument in Leonard case..

[dabom]

1-4. :lmao

[99 Problems]

Real MVP

[DPG21920]

Real MVP

If you're having voting problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but Kawhi for MVP ain't 1

[TheGreatYacht]

Zach Howe picked an interesting night to not tweet about basketball

[FkLA]

Someone with time should make a list of Kawhi's match-up vs some of the other top SFs. Pretty sure hes clearly outplayed all of them, and gotten the W just about every time as well.

[Benoit]

HES STILL SCARED TO DEATH OF MATT BARNES LMFAO

HAHAHAHAA

[gambit1990]

if you didn't know, mvp won't be announced until after the playoffs.

so i'm really curious when voting takes place. the playoffs will definitely affect who gets MVP if voting is afterwards (it shouldn't be).

[DPG21920]

if you didn't know, mvp won't be announced until after the playoffs.

so i'm really curious when voting takes place. the playoffs will definitely affect who gets MVP if voting is afterwards (it shouldn't be).

Wow. Claims to watch NBA but doesn't know about MVP voting. NO, the playoffs do no impact the voting at all. Voting is done before playoffs. It's announced during playoffs, but the voting concludes before them.

[BatManu20]

if you didn't know, mvp won't be announced until after the playoffs.

so i'm really curious when voting takes place. the playoffs will definitely affect who gets MVP if voting is afterwards (it shouldn't be).

Won't be announced until June 26th, along with every other award, but voting will be done before the playoffs begin.

[dabom]

You don't give MVP's to a team that gets bounced in the second round.

[SpursforSix]

You don't give MVP's to a team that gets bounced in the second round.

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/karl-malone.jpg

[313]

You don't give MVP's to a team that gets bounced in the second round.So we're ruling out Kawhi huh?

[SpursforSix]

You don't give MVP's to a team that gets bounced in the second round.

what about the first round?

http://a.fssta.com/content/dam/fsdigital/fscom/NBA/images/2015/12/23/122315-NBA-Dirk-Nowitzki-LN-PI.vresize.1200.675.high.45.jpg

[SpursforSix]

You don't give MVP's to a team that gets bounced in the second round.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nba/players/full/215.png&w=350&h=254

[TheGreatYacht]

So we're ruling out Kawhi huh?
LMAOOOOOOO :lmao

[spursistan]

The NBA has completely blown it with this post-playoffs award ceremony..they have just taken away a lot of drama and talking points out of the postseason..

As someone said it on twitter: Imagine not being able to make 3-1 jokes on the unanimous MVP :lol..

Ps. Russ is going to win it..

[Seventyniner]

The NBA has completely blown it with this post-playoffs award ceremony..they have just taken away a lot of drama and talking points out of the postseason..

As someone said it on twitter: Imagine not being able to make 3-1 jokes on the unanimous MVP :lol..

Ps. Russ is going to win it..

I don't get it. If the awards ceremony had been after the playoffs last year it would have been super awkward for Curry, like it was for Dirk in 2007.

[gambit1990]

Wow. Claims to watch NBA but doesn't know about MVP voting. NO, the playoffs do no impact the voting at all. Voting is done before playoffs. It's announced during playoffs, but the voting concludes before them.
:lol actually no, that changed. so you're the one who doesn't know, typical :lmao


Won't be announced until June 26th, along with every other award, but voting will be done before the playoffs begin.
good to know that didn't change.

[FkLA]

Wow. Claims to watch NBA but doesn't know about MVP voting. NO, the playoffs do no impact the voting at all. Voting is done before playoffs. It's announced during playoffs, but the voting concludes before them.


:lol actually no, that changed. so you're the one who doesn't know, typical :lmao

https://m.popkey.co/268c58/grZAZ.gif

[ace3g]

850506204078059521

[spursistan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8-_E_aUQAAfBvT.jpg

[BillMc]

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/karl-malone.jpg
:lol

Dirk got bounced in the first round his MVP year.

[BillMc]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8-_E_aUQAAfBvT.jpg

Nice find!:toast

[dabom]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8-_E_aUQAAfBvT.jpg

You get some dap.

[ace3g]

Harden is starting his campaign for Kawhi as MVP

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9BHekaXgAAv3uw.jpg:large

[dabom]

:lol

[apalisoc_9]

If Russ wins MVP and Houston Demolishes OKC. We're going to hear a lot of people try to justify their decision.

[TampaDude]

Damn, Russ...

[spursistan]

That Harden bum wrist killed his efficiency the last 2 weeks and lost him the MVP more than Russ going HAM-- stat-padding, nothwistanding..

[apalisoc_9]

That Harden bum wrist killed his efficiency the last 2 weeks and lost him the MVP more than Russ going HAM-- stat-padding, nothwistanding..

He's still going to win it. People's minds are usually already decided by Mid march.

I'm just Glad these MVPs are announced by the end of the season now. Oh boy the voters are going to have to do a lot of justfying of Westbrook wins with his shitty D and Stat padding..specially if Houston starts the playoffs like they want to committ mass murder.

I suspect they're going to start strong and sweep the thunder

[gambit1990]

Harden is starting his campaign for Kawhi as MVP

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9BHekaXgAAv3uw.jpg:large
:lol

[gambit1990]

at least kawhi won't have an ego trip after not winning it this year... if anything, he'll work harder.

hopefully the spurs get a PG that can get kawhi easy buckets.

i'll take rubio, livingston...

[Thomas82]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8-_E_aUQAAfBvT.jpg

Good stuff!!

[NameLess Scrub]

We keep talking about how Russ is inefficient and a stat padder. There are videos on how he doesn't actually increases the rebounds on his team, but just takes more of the pie so he can have better numbers. But what are the actual numbers that show that his play is not conducive to winning? He has narrative on his side as people claim his triple doubles are conducive to winning because he doesn't have Durant and is still 6th in the West. He also has all this heroic offensive runs late in games that he ends up winning.

I've heard people basically say it doesn't matter if he stat pad because his team is 6th in the West with no Durant.

For me, if he wasn't going to win by being a double double guy in the 6th seed of the West, he shouldn't win by being a triple double guy since his rebounds are manipulated.

[Gagnrath]

Durant might well believe it.... He's done for this year till the second round, but his defense was actually good this year. Partially because he has putting forth energy and partially because he is playing more as a big than a wing on defense.

[BillMc]

"The Case for Kawhi Leonard MVP"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-case-for-kawhi-leonard-mvp/?addata=espn:clubhouse

[GSH]

He's still going to win it. People's minds are usually already decided by Mid march.

I'm just Glad these MVPs are announced by the end of the season now. Oh boy the voters are going to have to do a lot of justfying of Westbrook wins with his shitty D and Stat padding..specially if Houston starts the playoffs like they want to committ mass murder.

I suspect they're going to start strong and sweep the thunder


A lot of people talk about guys stat-padding, when it isn't. Westbrook stat-pads. But even with him stat-padding, what does it say about the overall shitty state of the league, when all the big men collectively allow a 6'3" guy to pull down 10 boards every night? I don't give a rat's ass how athletic he is, 7-foot tall guys should not give up a lot of rebounds to a damn PG.

But if you want to know why his defense isn't good, you don't have to look any further than him breaking away early to go chase rebounds. That's part of the stat-padding.

[spursistan]

851806066514030593

[spursistan]

852178084346421250

[spursistan]

852195092999921664

Matt Moore picks Harden.

[spursistan]

Since Rocket fans are living and dying by this award outcome, here is one of them making an MVP Vote tracker doc online (Who voted for whom) :lol

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PKL-DCTLQCyRCNzvt_qWNtIDlCgbfGYVFBpEx4x7Y14/edit#gid=125019899

[apalisoc_9]

852178084346421250

Bob is such an influential guy...Considering he's not even part of the media tbh.

Lowe and Bob are probably the two most influential "new" NBA personalities right now.

Crazy how this guy is influential.

[SpursFan86]

Since Rocket fans are living and dying by this award outcome, here is one of them making an MVP Vote tracker doc online (Who voted for whom) :lol

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PKL-DCTLQCyRCNzvt_qWNtIDlCgbfGYVFBpEx4x7Y14/edit#gid=125019899

It's actually insane how much they care about Harden winning MVP :lol I mean I get that it's cool to see your own guy win such a big award...but holy shit.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/james-harden-is-gonna-get-screwed-over-again-in-mvp-voting.279618/

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/official-2016-17-nba-mvp-voting-tracker.281911/

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/what-if-we-embraced-the-hate.281922/

I could keep going...it's hilarious :lol

[apalisoc_9]

It's actually insane how much they care about Harden winning MVP :lol I mean I get that it's cool to see your own guy win such a big award...but holy shit.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/james-harden-is-gonna-get-screwed-over-again-in-mvp-voting.279618/

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/official-2016-17-nba-mvp-voting-tracker.281911/

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/what-if-we-embraced-the-hate.281922/

I could keep going...it's hilarious :lol

Really want to troll clutchfans but registration is closed.

[Brazil]

Bob is such an influential guy...Considering he's not even part of the media tbh.

Lowe and Bob are probably the two most influential "new" NBA personalities right now.

Crazy how this guy is influential.

Speaking of influential any news about Woj stance on this MVP race tbh ? I did not find anything

[TD 21]

All this talk about winning and defense is just that. The reality is, most people still value archaic, antiquated counting stats above all else and they don't even care if they're accumulated in disgraceful fashion by a player(s) seeking them out and having his teammates/coach complicit with it or factor in the era making it far more palatable.

If the Spurs can maintain an elite record, then Leonard is probably 2 years away from winning it because next year will be Harden's "turn" after finishing runner up twice in three years (and many idiots thought he should have won it two years ago).

[SpursFan86]

All this talk about winning and defense is just that. The reality is, most people still value archaic, antiquated counting stats above all else and they don't even care if they're accumulated in disgraceful fashion by a player(s) seeking them out and having his teammates/coach complicit with it or factor in the era making it far more palatable.

If the Spurs can maintain an elite record, then Leonard is probably 2 years away from winning it because next year will be Harden's "turn" after finishing runner up twice in three years (and many idiots thought he should have won it two years ago).

Oh, I won't be foolish enough to believe that Kawhi has even a somewhat realistic chance of winning it this year. I do think it's pretty incredible that he's even managed to stay in the conversation and legitimately gather at least some support in a year where you have guys like Westbrook/Harden/LeBron doing the things they're doing, though.

[dabom]

Dude picks Kawhi as his MVP.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19140550/zach-lowe-picks-nba-mvp-defensive-player-year-rookie-year-more-awards

Does he have a vote? I usually never tune in for that stuff.

[apalisoc_9]

Ofcourse lowe gets a Vote..He's the most influential non-Black Writer in the NBA circles. :lol

It seems like guys who youncan tell watches the occasional Mainstream TV voted for westbrook so this is all set and done. Kawhi might strangely finish second again.

[cd98]

Speaking of influential any news about Woj stance on this MVP race tbh ? I did not find anything

Woj doesn't vote for MVP or other awards.

[SpursFan86]

Kawhi might strangely finish second again.

Nah, no way he gets 2nd over Harden.

[spurs1990]

Very interesting so many bball heavy hitter analysts have Leonard as their MVP. Lowe, Habestroh, Volgaris - all have followed the league years on end.

I'd like to see Harden take it, just so in the semis Leonard can return the favor a la what occurred in the last (and only) time Houston and San Antonio played a playoff series.

[SpursFan86]

At this point I'm rooting for Westbrook* to win MVP solely so I can go on Clutchfans and see them bitch and moan :lol

*Obviously Kawhi would be my first choice, but I don't think he has a realistic shot at winning so I'm going for Westbrook over Harden

[dabom]

Westbrook is everything thats wrong with the game. Rooting for stat padding cucks. :lmao

Dude is gonna bow in the first round. :lmao

[Brazil]

Woj doesn't vote for MVP or other awards.

ok but dude has surely an opinion

and there is no denying he is extremely influential

[Brazil]

Westbrook is everything thats wrong with the game. Rooting for stat padding cucks. :lmao

Dude is gonna bow in the first round. :lmao

Ikr

and that fucker of lebomb supposed spurs fan rooting for this disaster of a player for obvious racial reason... smh

[spurs1990]

Westbrook is everything thats wrong with the game. Rooting for stat padding cucks. :lmao

Dude is gonna bow in the first round. :lmao

I was thinking that would be a first an MVP bowing out in the first round.

Then I discovered this did happen in 2007 with Dirk losing to GS.
That was a huge stain but he redeemed himself in 2011.

[spursistan]

Lowe slander isn't allowed on this forum for a while after his Kawhi/Pop picks.

He nailed it: this is the most overrated roster in the entire league for a supposed contender. It is chokeful with bunch of declined "names" and above average 1-one way players..But Chinook told me otherwise..



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9TPH0NUIAAoSuS.jpg

[spurs1990]

It also is a comment on how watered down/under performing the other 28 teams in this league are.

Okay maybe Houston is slightly ahead of everyone else as well but when you got a roster as talent laden as Cleveland playing in their JV conference and only getting 51 wins out of it....

Leonard won't get it this year, but he's gonna be due a trophy before his time is up, and I would say 2018 would be a good bet.

[SPURt]

Very interesting so many bball heavy hitter analysts have Leonard as their MVP. Lowe, Habestroh, Volgaris - all have followed the league years on end.

I'd like to see Harden take it, just so in the semis Leonard can return the favor a la what occurred in the last (and only) time Houston and San Antonio played a playoff series.

They aren't announcing MVP this year till after the playoffs. After Kawhi takes the Spurs to the promised land winning the MVP afterwards is going to feel hollow for anyone else.

[BatManu20]

Don't see it personally but thought this is worth posting


852524727390306305

852524996538716160

[SpursFan86]

Don't see it personally but thought this is worth posting


852524727390306305

852524996538716160

Sorry, but I'm just not buying this. I don't even think he'll be close. Not because I think he doesn't deserve it...I just know how the general media regards Westbrook and Harden. ESPN makes up over a quarter of the voting base, and the vast majority of them are going Westbrook/Harden.

In fact, I'd bet (quite a bit of) money that Kawhi won't even finish 2nd. I'd love to get proven wrong here, but I think anyone who is seriously thinking Kawhi will be close to getting MVP is way off-base here.

[BatManu20]

Sorry, but I'm just not buying this. I don't even think he'll be close. Not because I think he doesn't deserve it...I just know how the general media regards Westbrook and Harden. ESPN makes up over a quarter of the voting base, and the vast majority of them are going Westbrook/Harden.

In fact, I'd bet (quite a bit of) money that Kawhi won't even finish 2nd. I'd love to get proven wrong here, but I think anyone who is seriously thinking Kawhi will be close to getting MVP is way off-base here.

I agree with you. I don't see any way Russ or Harden don't win it. I think ultimately Russ takes it, harden finishes 2nd, Kawhi finishes 3rd, and Lebron 4th.

[BatManu20]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9UpvSeW0AAZBPN?format=jpg&name=large