Official Clutchfans meltdown thread

[MultiTroll]

^ thanks Jack Handy.

[ZeusWillJudge]

LOTS of the talking heads are saying that Pringles is out. Sounds like most people are expecting the collapse to be complete in Game 7.

[exstatic]

LOTS of the talking heads are saying that Pringles is out. Sounds like most people are expecting the collapse to be complete in Game 7.

When you pair a choker coach with a choker first option, things won’t end well.

[Seventyniner]

The more teams who have a fire sale at once, the more chances opportunistic teams (hopefully including the Spurs) have to improve. Philly and Houston blowing things up would be a nice start to the offseason.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't understand how anybody could possibly think a 3 low IQ choker combination of Westbrook, Harden and D'antoni could win a title. None of these dudes ever did and it's because all 3 of them are stupid statpadders

[exstatic]

The more teams who have a fire sale at once, the more chances opportunistic teams (hopefully including the Spurs) have to improve. Philly and Houston blowing things up would be a nice start to the offseason.

This thread is a year old, so Houston already had theirs. Doubt they do it two years in a row. Three First Names is a goner if the lose this, and maybe if they don’t ring.

[DJR210]

I don't understand how anybody could possibly think a 3 low IQ choker combination of Westbrook, Harden and D'antoni could win a title. None of these dudes ever did and it's because all 3 of them are stupid statpadders

:lmao Harden finds a new way to choke it away every fucking season :lol You can see it on his face

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

At least they got homecourt in Game 7 tho

:lol Nice!



The only thing helping the Rockets is that you've got CP3 on the other side who's also known for post season disappointment. So, really it's a battle of perennial also-rans in this series. The winner gets the right to get smoked in round 2.

[Rusty]

:lmao

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The end of the line for Morey and Pringles. Maybe Pop will add Mike to his coaching staff next season.

[gambit1990]

imagine having your hopes pinned to james harden :lmao

some of them are finally waking up... most aren't though.

[Dirks_Finale]

I could totally see that. Pop's been putting D'Antoni in high heels for nearly two decades. He almost owes it to him to give him a job on his staff :lol


The end of the line for Morey and Pringles. Maybe Pop will add Mike to his coaching staff next season.

[poopbox]

I hope the rockets at least keep Morey otherwise they might actually become a legit threat to win something :cry

[Rusty]

I hope the rockets at least keep Morey otherwise they might actually become a legit threat to win something :cry

They won't be for a long long time. They are stuck with that Westbrook contract

[RD2191]

:wakeup

[baseline bum]

I hope the rockets at least keep Morey otherwise they might actually become a legit threat to win something :cry

All Harden had to do was maybe shoot 5/13 instead of 2/13 from three in Game 7 and they ring in 2018 :lol

[KobesAchilles]

Is there a player who gets blown out in elimination games more than James Harden? :lol

[baseline bum]

Is there a player who gets blown out in elimination games more than James Harden? :lol

The guy in your avatar for instance

[Rusty]

:lmao

[timvp]

"When nothing seems to help, I go look at Clutchfans posters swinging from a collective shower rod after yet another playoff meltdown..."

-Jacob Riis, Updated

[Capt Bringdown]

1304938123332390913

[timvp]

ng3a7k

[Dejounte]

DeRozan for Harden? Lmao

[Dejounte]

"As im here watching the Rockets collapse has brought some harsh reality to my life. Their core is the oldest in the league, we have no cap space, we have awful contracts, no draft picks, and lastly a cheap owner. The Astros last chance real chance of being able to win it all was last year. i actually went to game 7 last year and still wont forget that 7th inning home run for the rest of my life.

Do i need to say more about the Texans? A few years ago in 2017 we thought the city was turning a corner...

What depressing decade we're going to have :("

Man, I feel bad for Rockets fans...

[RD2191]

"When nothing seems to help, I go look at Clutchfans posters swinging from a collective shower rod after yet another playoff meltdown..."

-Jacob Riis, Updated
:lol

[KobesAchilles]

The guy in your avatar for instance
That’s 4-2 talking :lmao

[RD2191]

ng3a7k
:lmao:lmao

[timvp]

Is there a player who gets blown out in elimination games more than James Harden? :lol

Even more so in retrospect since Nephew wasn't there, 2017 Game 6 has got to be one of the most satisfying games of all-time. Those Rockets were deceptively stacked looking back on it, too.

[Budkin]

ng3a7k

Incredible.

[gambit1990]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftXSNbKFzd0:lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftXSNbKFzd0:lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftXSNbKFzd0

[gambit1990]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhwukUbUMAA6m4N?format=jpg&name=small

:lmao

[ZeusWillJudge]

D'Antoni "told the Rockets that he wouldn't return". Heh... yeah, it was his idea. :lol

[exstatic]

D'Antoni "told the Rockets that he wouldn't return". Heh... yeah, it was his idea. :lol

That’s about as much a revelation as them running out small ball again next year, with or with out D’Antoni. They have no fucking choice. Their roster is constructed as such, they are cap fucked, and they have no draft choices to offload even one of their bad contracts, or draft a prospect.

[Dejounte]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhwukUbUMAA6m4N?format=jpg&name=small

:lmao

Classic

[ZeusWillJudge]

That’s about as much a revelation as them running out small ball again next year, with or with out D’Antoni. They have no fucking choice. Their roster is constructed as such, they are cap fucked, and they have no draft choices to offload even one of their bad contracts, or draft a prospect.


They bought into the D'Antoni Plan wholesale. Now he's gone, and they still have it. :lmao

I wish the Spurs could have been the ones to send him packing, but they have troubles of their own. Still, it's always nice to see Pringles tuck tail and leave.

[Play Boban]

:lmao lolckets :lmao

[gambit1990]

they're going thru an existential crisis over there tbh :lol

tossing around the dumbest ideas to improve their team.

[Sugus]

https://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/if-we-could-do-these-two-things.307275/


If We Could Do These Two Things

1. Hire Gregg Popovich as head coach
2. Trade Eric Gordon, Danuel House and Filler for LaMarcus Aldridge

From there we go:

Aldridge
Tucker
Covington
Harden
Westbrook

Sign some cheap centers and other vet min type guys and contend next year.

:lmao :rollin If only the Rockettes weren't so assets-deprived already, I'd love for us to fleece them even further and give them the corpse of Pop so they can underachieve and flame out again.

On the other hand, seeing the Rockettes' crashing and burning ship does make you step back and appreciate just how good we have it as Spurs fans... Even now, missing the POs for the first time in forever, with no clear star on the team going forward - we're still miles, miles better off in terms of the immediate future and long-term. All of our picks in the cupboard, very talented and intriguing young players, no albatross/untradeable contracts, big flexibility moving forward. Just imagine being locked to paying Harden and Westbrook 40m+ each for the next 2-3 years, whilst already knowing you've gone as far as you'll ever go with them, AND you have no rings to show for it all, only disappointment after disappointment, to the point that you can't even get excited about the futile regular season overachievements because you know it'll all come crumbling down in gut-wrenching fashion.

R:lolckettes

[Dejounte]

Rocket fans get really arrogant too when it comes to the Spurs failures.

[RD2191]

https://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/if-we-could-do-these-two-things.307275/



:lmao :rollin If only the Rockettes weren't so assets-deprived already, I'd love for us to fleece them even further and give them the corpse of Pop so they can underachieve and flame out again.

On the other hand, seeing the Rockettes' crashing and burning ship does make you step back and appreciate just how good we have it as Spurs fans... Even now, missing the POs for the first time in forever, with no clear star on the team going forward - we're still miles, miles better off in terms of the immediate future and long-term. All of our picks in the cupboard, very talented and intriguing young players, no albatross/untradeable contracts, big flexibility moving forward. Just imagine being locked to paying Harden and Westbrook 40m+ each for the next 2-3 years, whilst already knowing you've gone as far as you'll ever go with them, AND you have no rings to show for it all, only disappointment after disappointment, to the point that you can't even get excited about the futile regular season overachievements because you know it'll all come crumbling down in gut-wrenching fashion.

R:lolckettes
:lmao:lmao

[FutureMan]

Westbrook’s contract is definitely bad but that Eric Gordon contract is terrible too.

I don’t see a way for the Rockets to turn this around. I love it.

[spurs10]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhwukUbUMAA6m4N?format=jpg&name=small

:lmao
My favorite pose of the 2020 bubble. Hilarious...and he wouldn't shut up. Love that baby with the pacifier. His first 'wtf' moment. :lol

[objective]

ng3a7k

the next episode, 57, after the elimination, is bizarre.

Co-host mentions trading Eric Gordon and the main host sounds like he's crying as he refuses to entertain the idea of trading ... Eric Gordon (huh?)

The the Main Host says he would only ever trade Westbrook for Giannis, and no other trade would be good enough.

While the co-host refuses, saying he would never take back Giannis for Westbrook straight up.

[Maddog]

That’s about as much a revelation as them running out small ball again next year, with or with out D’Antoni. They have no fucking choice. Their roster is constructed as such, they are cap fucked, and they have no draft choices to offload even one of their bad contracts, or draft a prospect.

Over 300 million guaranteed to 3 players all past the age of 31 and no room or picks to maneuver with.
And when you think of the constant harping about Mills contract......

[XDT76]

https://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/if-we-could-do-these-two-things.307275/



:lmao :rollin If only the Rockettes weren't so assets-deprived already, I'd love for us to fleece them even further and give them the corpse of Pop so they can underachieve and flame out again.

On the other hand, seeing the Rockettes' crashing and burning ship does make you step back and appreciate just how good we have it as Spurs fans... Even now, missing the POs for the first time in forever, with no clear star on the team going forward - we're still miles, miles better off in terms of the immediate future and long-term. All of our picks in the cupboard, very talented and intriguing young players, no albatross/untradeable contracts, big flexibility moving forward. Just imagine being locked to paying Harden and Westbrook 40m+ each for the next 2-3 years, whilst already knowing you've gone as far as you'll ever go with them, AND you have no rings to show for it all, only disappointment after disappointment, to the point that you can't even get excited about the futile regular season overachievements because you know it'll all come crumbling down in gut-wrenching fashion.

R:lolckettes

Well maybe we can sign and trade Beli and Forbes for RoCo.

[Ocotillo]

Over 300 million guaranteed to 3 players all past the age of 31 and no room or picks to maneuver with.
And when you think of the constant harping about Mills contract......

You know, if the Lakers were in this situation, somehow another team out there would bail them out with some Godawful trade.

[exstatic]

Over 300 million guaranteed to 3 players all past the age of 31 and no room or picks to maneuver with.
And when you think of the constant harping about Mills contract......

I know, right? His WHOLE contract is about the same as a year of Westchuck.

[RC_Drunkford]

They had a good team when they had Capela and CP3. Everybody knows Westbrook is a dumb stat padder who can't shoot. Their FO is funny as fuck :lmao They gonna be garbage for about 10 years

[Ocotillo]

I'm so old I remember people on this very board bitchin' that Morey ran circles around PATFO because he was constantly jiggering with the roster.

[exstatic]

I'm so old I remember people on this very board bitchin' that Morey ran circles around PATFO because he was constantly jiggering with the roster.

A classic example of why action is not always progress. He always made the sexy trade or signing, but it never seemed to get them any further. They also seemed to dump a scheme and retool every two or three years.

[Sugus]

They had a good team when they had Capela and CP3. Everybody knows Westbrook is a dumb stat padder who can't shoot. Their FO is funny as fuck :lmao They gonna be garbage for about 10 years

If I'm not mistaken, their owner literally came out before the season started, after the Westbrook trade, and outright said "if we don't win a championship this year, we aren't winning one in the next 10 years". So much for that ultimatum... OKC must be absolutely salivating right now. What a fucking fleece of a trade

[Rusty]

:lmao

[Rusty]

:lmao

[Dverde]

Batman Forever was the #1 movie the last time they won a championship. Always next year.

[BWS-1994]

Maybe Westbrook will end up with the Knicks after all...

[RD2191]

:lol

[Rusty]

Truth be told, this Westbrook development is merely the latest challenge in what has been a trying time for the Rockets. And he’s hardly the only player who has been struggling with frustration.



For starters, P.J. Tucker has been irate over his contract situation all season long, sources said. Tucker has seen other ‘Three-and-D’ wings around the league receive paydays in less important situations and believes he is worthy of a raise, sources said.



Eric Gordon endured a difficult season from an injury standpoint, but was also not pleased with how his role and importance had diminished since the 2016-17 season, sources said.



House was another player who wasn’t pleased with his usage and involvement in the offense and has verbally challenged D’Antoni, Harden, and Westbrook this season, sources said. His January outburst in a road win against the Hawks was the first instance where House publicly lost his cool in that manner but this wasn’t an isolated incident, sources said.



Austin Rivers also experienced a frustrating season. In one instance, Rivers went on an expletive-laden tirade following a game where D’Antoni called for him to be substituted, only to change his mind and insert new signing Demarre Carroll.



Former teammates also questioned why players like Clint Capela and Chris Paul were traded, according to sources. There have also been complaints about the team’s style of play, both from former and current players on the team, sources said. Game 7 of the 2018 Western Conference Finals was the highlight of such complaints, with the team missing 27 straight 3-pointers and not adjusting or incorporating any other offensive strategy, sources said.

[Rusty]

Context:
A large chunk of the angst, however, stems from a lack of accountability, sources said. During the January locker room meeting following a home loss to Portland, Westbrook, who was leading the meeting, went around the room indicating what was wrong and what each player needed to do to fix the losing streak, starting with himself, sources said. When it came to Harden, however, he wasn’t as receptive to criticism as other teammates, sources said.

Former teammates have described the culture in Houston as problematic, sources said, highlighting a situation that caters far too much to its stars. One example cited was the case of Trevor Ariza, who left the team in 2018 in search of more money, but also more respect, sources said. The Rockets attempted to bring him back down the line but Ariza, sources said, was seeking an apology that never came. Former teammates also questioned why players like Clint Capela and Chris Paul were traded, according to sources. There have also been complaints about the team’s style of play, both from former and current players on the team, sources said. Game 7 of the 2018 Western Conference Finals was the highlight of such complaints, with the team missing 27 straight 3-pointers and not adjusting or incorporating any other offensive strategy, sources said.

[Sugus]

:hungry: :corn:

[baseline bum]

Austin Rivers complaining about being subbed out was the best. That guy should be happy to even be allowed to sit on an NBA bench.

[K...]

I read a twitter ass hat connect Westbrook and the spurs 11 pick. Please no, please no please no.

[daslicer]

I read a twitter ass hat connect Westbrook and the spurs 11 pick. Please no, please no please no.

I would be pissed off if the Spurs traded for Westbrook. Westbrook is on my top 5 most hated players in the current NBA.

[exstatic]

I would be pissed off if the Spurs traded for Westbrook. Westbrook is on my top 5 most hated players in the current NBA.

A less efficient, smaller, worse 3 point VOLUME shooter than DDR.

[look_at_g_shred]

Batman Forever was the #1 movie the last time they won a championship. Always next year.
Gangsta's Paradise was also the #1 song

[Chinook]

Gangsta's Paradise was also the #1 song

To be fair, it's still the #1 song.

[RD2191]

To be fair, it's still the #1 song.
:hat

[cjw]

A less efficient, smaller, worse 3 point VOLUME shooter than DDR.

Westbrook needed ~7 more shots per 100 possessions to average 4 more points (adjusting for FTs). Also a higher turnover rate vs. assists.

Rockets had a negative differential with him on the floor, Spurs had a positive one with Demar on floor.

[jeebus]

Austin Rivers complaining about being subbed out was the best. That guy should be happy to even be allowed to sit on an NBA bench.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrK2Fv1s0qk

[Dex]

Man, from Game 7 against the stacked Warriors in the WCF to dumpster fire in two seasons.

[RC_Drunkford]

Man, from Game 7 against the stacked Warriors in the WCF to dumpster fire in two seasons.

PATFO, best front office in the league :drunk

[K...]

PATFO, best front office in the league :drunk

Self owned

[Leetonidas]

Poor Rockets fans getting kawhi'd by Harden :lmao

[PhantomDashCam]

Poor Rockets fans getting kawhi'd by Harden :lmao

Has to be a new term entirely.
A coach, a GM and 2 PG's (of declining quality, however at one time or another could make a claim to being the best at their position) - out - and more likely to come...

They just got "Munson'd."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADRiC5nhEy0

[Rusty]

Can't even load their website now :lmao

[itzsoweezee]

I feel bad for rockets fans, they did nothing to deserve this

[exstatic]

I feel bad for rockets fans, they did nothing to deserve this

You’re in time out. THEY'RE FUCKING ROCKETS FANS.

[RD2191]

:hungry:

[BatManu20]

Rockets fans talked so much shit when Kawhi demanded his trade. This is sweet redemption tbh :lol

[Ice009]

Rockets really had a chance to win it all in 2018 being up 3-2 on the Warriors. To go from there to this is truly sad/crappy for them and their fans. Even though I hated the Rockets as a kid from the '95 playoffs on ward - I've since let a lot of those old rivalries/grudges go, I feel a tiny bit bad for some of their fans.

[pookenstein]

Fuck the Rockets and their fans.

[DeRozan m8]

To each and every Rockets fan....SUCK A FUCK hahahahaha

Honestly though..I'd be stoked to never have to cheer for Harden again.
He was never gonna win them a ring either.

[exstatic]

Fuck the Rockets and their fans.

[cjw]

Imagine being a fan of Houston sports like 13 months ago...

- Rockets coming off WCF with Warriors becoming injured in the finals, clearing path
- Astros being in the World Series before trash can gate
- Texans having not traded two firsts for a left tackle and not having traded Hopkins, on top of all the other dumb moves

[cd98]

Daryl Morey just keeps showing his brilliance. He got out before this disaster of a blow up happened. The next guy is the one that has to trade Harden with no leverage and will score a crappy deal and tarnish whatever legacy.

[cd98]

Are you just ignoring that Morey constructed the fuse and the bomb that is about to "Blow up"?
Brilliant? In what? He is a Ponzie Scheme GM, that franchise has been garbage for over 25 years.

Brilliant because he isn't there to take the blame. The next GM will. History will show that Morey acquired Harden in a steal. History will show that someone else traded prime Harden to the Nets for blah.

[Dejounte]

Warmly Welcome all the New Spur fans signing up on Spurstalk!! They used to be Rocket fans and now they're here! Hi guys.

[hater]

You hired Hardon and CP0 to handle the ball in clutch time. What could go wrong? :lmao

[DAF86]

No way we can get into some of that Harden action, right?

DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray, Walker, Samanic, 11 and 2 future 1st. Something crazy like that.

Harden would ring under Pop, imvho.

[Dejounte]

No way we can get into some of that Harden action, right?

DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray, Walker, Samanic, 11 and 2 future 1st. Something crazy like that.

Harden would ring under Pop, imvho.

All their owner cares about is making money, DeRozan and picks really isn't out of realm of possibility if the Spurs really wanted to... DeRozan would keep the money going for Houston versus if they went for Wall who is always injured or some package of picks and young players. I think they need to do damage control and tell their fans they're still going to compete by going after DeRozan.

[Twisted_Dawg]

No way we can get into some of that Harden action, right?

DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray, Walker, Samanic, 11 and 2 future 1st. Something crazy like that.

Harden would ring under Pop, imvho.

Spurs should only do that deal if Harden agrees to that $103 million extension.

[jjktkk]

No way we can get into some of that Harden action, right?

DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray, Walker, Samanic, 11 and 2 future 1st. Something crazy like that.

Harden would ring under Pop, imvho.

Why would you want the Spurs to basically gut their franchise to obtain Harden whose proven in his short time in Houston that he cannot handle being the man?

[Dejounte]

Also, the likelihood of trading with a conference rival and seeing Harden bust their ass four games in a season make the chances of this really low. It would be humiliating for the Rockets and they would get even made fun of more on National TV. I don't remember a star ever being traded within the same conference.

[DAF86]

Why would you want the Spurs to basically gut their franchise to obtain Harden whose proven in his short time in Houston that he cannot handle being the man?

Maybe because the Spurs would be getting a top 5 player in the league who would instantly put them in contention?

[DAF86]

It's never happening but let me dream:

Harden
White
Johnson
MLE
Poeltl

[jjktkk]

Maybe because the Spurs would be getting a top 5 player in the league who would instantly put them in contention?

With your proposed Spurs trade for Harden, you traded away the whole team to get a Great ONEWAY player, who cannot handle being the #1 leader on his team. How would the Spurs fill out their roster if they traded for Harden? How can the Spurs coaching staff preach defense when their best player refuses to play defense? Any team wanting Harden better already have a true leader in their locker room, because Harden, in his short time in Houston, has shown he's not that guy.

[DAF86]

With your proposed Spurs trade for Harden, you traded away the whole team to get a Great ONEWAY player, who cannot handle being the #1 leader on his team. How would the Spurs fill out their roster if they traded for Harden? How can the Spurs coaching staff preach defense when their best player refuses to play defense? Any team wanting Harden better already have a true leader in their locker room, because Harden, in his short time in Houston, has shown he's not that guy.

Harden's defense has actually been pretty good for some time now. Check the metrics.

And the answer to all the other questions is Pop and the Spurs' culture. Here, Harden wouldn't be needlessly ran into the ground during the regular season, therefore he would still have energy for the playoffs. Here, he would also play actual team ball instead of one on one hero ball everytime down the court.

[jjktkk]

Harden's defense has actually been pretty good for some time now. Check the metrics.

And the answer to all the other questions is Pop and the Spurs' culture. Here, Harden wouldn't be needlessly ran into the ground during the regular season, therefore he would still have energy for the playoffs. Here, he would also play actual team ball instead of one on one hero ball everytime down the court.
The Spurs would be Harden's 3rd team. That is a little concerning to me.. Plus you're wanting the Spurs to trade away "DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray, Walker, Samanic, 11 and 2 future 1st.for Harden. That's way, way, too much for Harden. Who could the Spurs pair with Harden? You then mentioned Pop coaching Harden. I'm sure Harden would want some sort of assurances from Pop about not retiring anytime soon if he was traded to the Spurs. Sorry, I would have to pass on this crazy trade proposal of yours.

[Chinook]

Maybe because the Spurs would be getting a top 5 player in the league who would instantly put them in contention?

Harden ball isn't winning ball though.

[exstatic]

No way we can get into some of that Harden action, right?

DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray, Walker, Samanic, 11 and 2 future 1st. Something crazy like that.

Harden would ring under Pop, imvho.

Harden is a loser, he’s proven it numerous times.

[exstatic]

Why would you want the Spurs to basically gut their franchise to obtain Harden whose proven in his short time in Houston that he cannot handle being the man?

He shit the bed as far back as the 2012 Finals, with OKC. It’s who he is.

[DAF86]

Harden ball isn't winning ball though.

Yes, it is, tbh.

[Dancelot]

It's never happening but let me dream:

Harden
White
Johnson
MLE
Poeltl

I’m not sure that is any better than the teams that Houston built around him.

[DAF86]

I’m not sure that is any better than the teams that Houston built around him.

The fact that Pop would have them play actual team ball instead of one on one ball everysingle time down the floor would automatically make them better.

[Chinook]

Yes, it is, tbh.

I mean, if by winning you mean getting hyped only to lose predictably each time, yes.

[Chinook]

The fact that Pop would have them play actual team ball instead of one on one ball everysingle time down the floor would automatically make them better.

But Harden ball isn't team ball. It's basically the opposite of that.

[DAF86]

I mean, if by winning you mean getting hyped only to lose predictably each time, yes.

Yeah, everybody would lose "predictably" against the best team in history. The fact that the Rockets were so close to beating them says a lot, tbh.

[DAF86]

But Harden ball isn't team ball. It's basically the opposite of that.

The best Harden ball is being a pick and roll Master. That's winning ball, tbh.

[SpurPadre]

Yeah, everybody would lose "predictably" against the best team in history. The fact that the Rockets were so close to beating them says a lot, tbh.

And they clearly would've beaten the Warriors had CP3 not gotten injured.

[Chinook]

The best Harden ball is being a pick and roll Master. That's winning ball, tbh.

It's not, unless you're basically just saying running PnRs and taking the Harden part out of it.

[Chinook]

Yeah, everybody would lose "predictably" against the best team in history. The fact that the Rockets were so close to beating them says a lot, tbh.

You do know that that wasn't the only year Harden played, right? Even if they would've gotten past the Warriors that season, that doesn't excuse him losing to all those other teams. Those are the predictable losses, because Harden ball is a shitty style of play that falls apart when the other team can gameplan and Houston can't shoot at unsustainably levels from three.

[DAF86]

It's not, unless you're basically just saying running PnRs and taking the Harden part out of it.

Harden's Rockets have been a perennial contender on the Western Conference. That's 'cause Harden plays a winning brand of basketball, unlike guys like Westbrook, Aldridge, DeRozan, etc.

[gambit1990]

And they clearly would've beaten the Warriors had CP3 not gotten injured.
yes, that rockets team was playing mightily. they would've swept the cavs with one eye closed.

[Chinook]

Harden's Rockets have been a perennial contender on the Western Conference.

Full stop: No they haven't been. They only were during Paul's two years.

[DAF86]

You do know that that wasn't the only year Harden played, right? Even if they would've gotten past the Warriors that season, that doesn't excuse him losing to all those other teams. Those are the predictable losses, because Harden ball is a shitty style of play that falls apart when the other team can gameplan and Houston can't shoot at unsustainably levels from three.

How many times have Harden's Rockets loss a series were they were favoured coming in?

[Chinook]

How many times have Harden's Rockets loss a series were they were favoured coming in?

This feels like an irrelevant question. If they were favored and lost, that's an indictment of Harden ball. If they were rarely favored, that's an indictment against the belief that Harden made the Rockets a contender for more than just the two years.

[DAF86]

Full stop: No they haven't been. They only were during Paul's two years.

Since the 2013/14 season they have been winning around 55 games and making it far in the playoffs every year except in 2016

[Chinook]

Since the 2013/14 season they have been winning around 55 games and making it far in the playoffs every year except in 2016

So...?

[DAF86]

This feels like an irrelevant question. If they were favored and lost, that's an indictment of Harden ball. If they were rarely favored, that's an indictment against the belief that Harden made the Rockets a contender for more than just the two years.

No, it's just an indicament that the Western Conference has had some pretty damn elite teams. Since Harden got to the Rockets, they have become a top 5 team in the league. That speaks of the impact that Harden's style of play has on winning, tbh.

[DAF86]

So...?

#winningball

You spent the better part of the last three years trying to say that Aldridge and his 8th seeds, one and done, teams were winning ball and you dimiss Harden's Rockets? :lol

[Chinook]

#winningball

You spent the better part of the last three years trying to say that Aldridge and his 8th seeds, one and done, teams were winning ball and you dimiss Harden's Rockets? :lol

Unlike you, I don't think a random number proves my point. Harden ball wasn't winning ball specifically because it would fail Houston repeatedly, to the point that even when the Rockets had good records, they were not contenders. This past season is an obvious example of Houston having basically no chance of winning a title by probably being counted as a contender in your book. Harden ball specifically is prone to losing against inferior competition since you can gameplan around it and since Harden himself has crazy meltdowns to seal losses. Aldridge ball was winning ball because it let the Spurs play above their talent level two years in a row. Unfortunately for Aldridge, the Spurs have never adequately supported Aldridge ball when it comes to personnel. The Rockets basically got Harden anything he wanted and built an offensive system around him. It's unambiguous that Harden's been the focus of the Rockets' offense in every one of their many failures with him. That's not the case with Aldridge.

[DAF86]

Unlike you, I don't think a random number proves my point. Harden ball wasn't winning ball specifically because it would fail Houston repeatedly, to the point that even when the Rockets had good records, they were not contenders. This past season is an obvious example of Houston having basically no chance of winning a title by probably being counted as a contender in your book. Harden ball specifically is prone to losing against inferior competition since you can gameplan around it and since Harden himself has crazy meltdowns to seal losses. Aldridge ball was winning ball because it let the Spurs play above their talent level two years in a row. Unfortunately for Aldridge, the Spurs have never adequately supported Aldridge ball when it comes to personnel. The Rockets basically got Harden anything he wanted and built an offensive system around him. It's unambiguous that Harden's been the focus of the Rockets' offense in every one of their many failures with him. That's not the case with Aldridge.

So let me get this straight, you are telling me, in the year 2020, that Aldridge's style of play is more conductive to winning than Harden's? :lol

[Chinook]

So let me get this straight, you are telling me, in the year 2020, that Aldridge's style of play is more conductive to winning than Harden's? :lol

Yeah. Of course, LMA is old now. But if he were in his prime, definitely. Harden ball isn't winning ball. It's like thinking Russ ball in winning ball. How you could believe a team with both of those balls at the same time were a contender is beyond me.

[DAF86]

Yeah. Of course, LMA is old now. But if he were in his prime, definitely. Harden ball isn't winning ball. It's like thinking Russ ball in winning ball. How you could believe a team with both of those balls at the same time were a contender is beyond me.

I didn't think last year's Rockets were contenders, tbh. Specifically because of Westbrook. Comparing Westbrook and Harden is very ignorant, tbh. Their efficiency levels couldn't be more apart.

And lol at prime Aldridge being more impactful than Harden. When did Aldridge manage to lead a team as good and for as much time as Harden did?

[Chinook]

Comparing Westbrook and Harden is very ignorant, tbh. Their efficiency levels couldn't be more apart.

I think you're issue is that you seem to think Harden's efficiency is what makes his style of play winning ball.


And lol at prime Aldridge being more impactful than Harden. When did Aldridge manage to lead a team as good and for as much time as Harden did?

I mean, Aldridge's winning percentage since 2013-2014 is only a point off Harden's. I know you're going to chalk that up to Lillard and Leonard. But doing that misses the point that Harden has always had good players around him too. Morey and MDA did way more to build around Harden than the Spurs did for Aldridge. The Spurs haven't traded a first-rounder for a vet the whole time LMA's been on the roster. That's cool for getting some okay young players. But other GMs might've prioritized making a roster that fit LMA's strengths instead of almost instantly telling him to change his game and then not bringing in any complimentary vets beyond Gay.

[DAF86]

I think you're issue is that you seem to think Harden's efficiency is what makes his style of play winning ball.



I mean, Aldridge's winning percentage since 2013-2014 is only a point off Harden's. I know you're going to chalk that up to Lillard and Leonard. But doing that misses the point that Harden has always had good players around him too. Morey and MDA did way more to build around Harden than the Spurs did for Aldridge. The Spurs haven't traded a first-rounder for a vet the whole time LMA's been on the roster. That's cool for getting some okay young players. But other GMs might've prioritized making a roster that fit LMA's strengths instead of almost instantly telling him to change his game and then not bringing in any complimentary vets beyond Gay.

When did Aldridge manage to lead a team as good as the best Rockets teams Harden led? It's a simple question, tbh.

[Chinook]

When did Aldridge manage to lead a team as good as the best Rockets teams Harden led? It's a simple question, tbh.

Aldridge has been on teams that good. You want to argue semantics on who led them. But that has nothing to do with LMA. He's been a top-two player on all of those teams.

Not every question can be satisfied with the at-a-glance analysis you like citing.

[DAF86]

Aldridge has been on teams that good. You want to argue semantics on who led them. But that has nothing to do with LMA. He's been a top-two player on all of those teams.

Not every question can be satisfied with the at-a-glance analysis you like citing.

How being the clear number 2 vs being the top dog is a semantics issue now? :lol

[Chinook]

How being the clear number 2 vs being the top dog is a semantics issue now? :lol

Because Aldridge can't help that folks like you want to give the credit to Lillard or Leonard. It's not like the dude was the first option than then ring-chased ala Davis. Even going to SA was supposed to be him as the clear best player on the team.

[DAF86]

Because Aldridge can't help that folks like you want to give the credit to Lillard or Leonard. It's not like the dude was the first option than then ring-chased ala Davis. Even going to SA was supposed to be him as the clear best player on the team.

Who was the number one option in the Spurs, Kawhi or Aldridge?

[Chinook]

Who was the number one option in the Spurs, Kawhi or Aldridge?

This doesn't matter.

[K...]

Who was the number one option in the Spurs, Kawhi or Aldridge?

It's draft day my friend, stop spamming about harden

[DAF86]

It's draft day my friend, stop spamming about harden

How am I spamming? I'm just engaging in an argument. In any case we would both be "spamming". :lol

[DAF86]

This doesn't matter.

Yes it does. Harden can win 65 games and be a quarter away from probably ringing as the top dog. Aldridge can't.

[Chinook]

Yes it does.

It really doesn't. Harden and Paul almost beat GS and didn't because of Paul's injury. LMA and a hobbled Leonard looked to be a match for GS before Leonard went down. That you want to insist on arguing that Harden was the top dog over Paul and that Leonard was over LMA couldn't matter less.

[DAF86]

It really doesn't. Harden and Paul almost beat GS and didn't because of Paul's injury. LMA and a hobbled Leonard looked to be a match for GS before Leonard went down. That you want to insist on arguing that Harden was the top dog over Paul and that Leonard was over LMA couldn't matter less.

I don't want to insist anything. That is a verifiable fact by anyone that isn't being intentionally dishonest, tbh. :lol

[Chinook]

I don't want to insist anything. That is a verifiable fact by anyone that isn't being intentionally dishonest, tbh. :lol

It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you think it's true or even if it could be verified as being true. It still wouldn't matter.

[DAF86]

It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you think it's true or even if it could be verified as being true. It still wouldn't matter.

Why?

[Chinook]

Why?

Because whether Harden ball is winning ball isn't about him being technically top dog over Paul the only year that they seriously threatened for a title or whatever. It's a philosophical question about whether a team built around a player taking iso threes from the perimeter and hoping for foul calls is a sustainable way to play. My stance is that it's not because it's far too easy to gamplan around and depends on Harden himself not being fickle like he often becomes when he feels a series turning against him. Harden basically has the same temperament as DeRozan. You depend on him to carry you through adversity at your own peril. The thing that sucks is that you basically have nothing to fall back on since Harden ball removes most off-ball movement. That one time with Paul it worked because D'Antoni worked in more Paul-ball concepts to add variety. The friction between Harden-ball and team ball is probably what killed their relationship. Clearly, he's awful to play with.

[Bojo]

Harden-Ball is in its design highly inconsistent (see variance) and excludes most of the non-ballhandlers (=everyone except Harden) from doing anything but spot up. It's not by accident that they almost dethroned Golden State when they had an elite midrange shot creator.

It's not really possible to compare Aldridge-Ball with Harden-Ball over the years, as the Rockets had a way better supporting cast hand-tailored for their style of play and the Spurs were a team dealing with some personell turmoil. It still does say something though that the only meaningful game between evenly matched Spurs and Rockets teams with Aldridge and Harden as the respective top dogs was a total obliteration.

Sorry for chiming in out of the blue, but the discussion was too interesting to resist.

[Chinook]

Harden-Ball is in its design highly inconsistent (see variance) and excludes most of the non-ballhandlers (=everyone except Harden) from doing anything but spot up. It's not by accident that they almost dethroned Golden State when they had an elite midrange shot creator.

It's not really possible to compare Aldridge-Ball with Harden-Ball over the years, as the Rockets had a way better supporting cast hand-tailored for their style of play and the Spurs were a team dealing with some personell turmoil. It still does say something though that the only meaningful game between evenly matched Spurs and Rockets teams with Aldridge and Harden as the respective top dogs was a total obliteration.

Sorry for chiming in out of the blue, but the discussion was too interesting to resist.

Aldridge beat Harden H2H twice. And yes, that had a Lillard who was just breaking out. But it also had Howard who was still a marquee player. The first two games of that series were incredible play by Aldridge.

But yeah, that Warriors series was lucky for them too. People always talk about Houston being unfortunate to have their shots dry up. But the reality is that when you take so many low-percentage shots, you are going to have games where it just isn't going. High variance, as you said. That Houston had so many "good rolls" against the Warriors is unusual, whereas them dropping a couple of games to inferior teams in a series is what usually happens. Then in crunch time, Harden falls apart. This isn't close a new aspect of Harden-ball.

[DAF86]

Because whether Harden ball is winning ball isn't about him being technically top dog over Paul the only year that they seriously threatened for a title or whatever. It's a philosophical question about whether a team built around a player taking iso threes from the perimeter and hoping for foul calls is a sustainable way to play. My stance is that it's not because it's far too easy to gamplan around and depends on Harden himself not being fickle like he often becomes when he feels a series turning against him. Harden basically has the same temperament as DeRozan. You depend on him to carry you through adversity at your own peril. The thing that sucks is that you basically have nothing to fall back on since Harden ball removes most off-ball movement. That one time with Paul it worked because D'Antoni worked in more Paul-ball concepts to add variety. The friction between Harden-ball and team ball is probably what killed their relationship. Clearly, he's awful to play with.

Harden is the same guy that accepted comig off the bench without bitching. He's also arguably the best pick and roll player in the league. Just because D'antoni had him playing gimmick ball it doesn't mean he can't play proper ball. He is without a question a top 5 player in the league and any reasonable person would have him as the clearly better player over Aldridge, even if all the things you assume about Harden are true, because Mr "mah touches" isn't any better on that department.

[DAF86]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/260389/Rockets-Have-Given-Up-Keeping-James-Harden-Will-Be-Patient-With-Trade

I seriously think the Spurs could be serious Harden suitors if they put their efforts into making it happen. They have two expiring contracts (in DeRozan and Aldridge) to easily make a trade for Harden work. They also have a handful of interesting young prospects. It's just a matter of how many 1st round picks the Spurs are willing to give.

[GAustex]

I hope not.
Just don’t wanna root for dribble dribble flop.

[DAF86]

If the Spurs can work a trade around DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray (maybe Walker and/or Samanic) and a couple of 1st for Harden, Gordon and Tucker, the Spurs would become instant contenders.

Harden
White
Keldon
Tucker
Poeltl

Mills
Vassell
Gordon
Gay
Drew

[mo7888]

I seriously think the Spurs could be serious Harden suitors if they put their efforts into making it happen. They have two expiring contracts (in DeRozan and Aldridge) to easily make a trade for Harden work. They also have a handful of interesting young prospects. It's just a matter of how many 1st round picks the Spurs are willing to give.

Murray + DDR + Gay for Harden + House

How many 1st would we give?

[KobesAchilles]

Murray + DDR + Gay for Harden + House

How many 1st would we give?
Just easier to get Westbrook. I don't think we would even have to give up a first.

[Chinook]

Harden is the same guy that accepted comig off the bench without bitching.

Kawhi also agreed to do a lot of stuff when he was younger that he wouldn't do now.


He's also arguably the best pick and roll player in the league. Just because D'antoni had him playing gimmick ball it doesn't mean he can't play proper ball.

So at this point, I think you've moved the goal posts pretty far. You used Aldridge ball to mean playing the style of ball he likes to play. You trying to shunt LMA's success to "Well Leonard was the main option" suggests that as well. It's clear that if that same standard applies, this shitty iso routine is what Harden-ball is. MDA never ran that type of offense with his other guards. He didn't even start running with with Harden initially. That came out later once Harden was good enough to assert himself. This explosion that Harden had was the result of running Harden ball. It's the reason why he's so efficient. It's the reason why Houston has won so many games. You can't separate it from him just because forever ago he used to play like a human instead of a machine trying to simulate a human.

So yeah, Harden ball isn't winning ball. Harden if he could somehow be brought back to Earth, could probably be a if not then main contributor to a championship team, in the same way that Aldridge could be a main contributor to a championship team, even as an old man but letting offense come to him rather than creating it with iso-ball. Difference between the two is that Aldridge has clearly accepted the challenge to adapt his game in a way Harden has, your shitty attempt to bring up "muh touches" notwithstanding.

[R. DeMurre]

If the Spurs can work a trade around DeRozan, Aldridge, Murray (maybe Walker and/or Samanic) and a couple of 1st for Harden, Gordon and Tucker, the Spurs would become instant contenders.

Harden
White
Keldon
Tucker
Poeltl

Mills
Vassell
Gordon
Gay
Drew

I dislike Harden about 50% of the time, but I dislike DeRozan 80% of the time, so yeah I'd support that if it meant keeping White, KJ, and Vassell. I just wonder if Harden could be forced to move away from so much iso-ball. But hell, if not, he's still tradable-- something DeRozan doesn't seem to be. The difference between DeRozan and Harden is DeRozan's play is not winning basketball because of his shortcomings, which can't be changed. I think Harden doesn't maximize his abilities due to style of play, which is changeable.

[DAF86]

Kawhi also agreed to do a lot of stuff when he was younger that he wouldn't do now.



So at this point, I think you've moved the goal posts pretty far. You used Aldridge ball to mean playing the style of ball he likes to play. You trying to shunt LMA's success to "Well Leonard was the main option" suggests that as well. It's clear that if that same standard applies, this shitty iso routine is what Harden-ball is. MDA never ran that type of offense with his other guards. He didn't even start running with with Harden initially. That came out later once Harden was good enough to assert himself. This explosion that Harden had was the result of running Harden ball. It's the reason why he's so efficient. It's the reason why Houston has won so many games. You can't separate it from him just because forever ago he used to play like a human instead of a machine trying to simulate a human.

So yeah, Harden ball isn't winning ball. Harden if he could somehow be brought back to Earth, could probably be a if not then main contributor to a championship team, in the same way that Aldridge could be a main contributor to a championship team, even as an old man but letting offense come to him rather than creating it with iso-ball. Difference between the two is that Aldridge has clearly accepted the challenge to adapt his game in a way Harden has, your shitty attempt to bring up "muh touches" notwithstanding.

Dude, Aldridge and Harden aren't even comparable. It's a laughable argument the one you are trying to make here. It's not even worth replying to, tbh.

[DAF86]

Just easier to get Westbrook. I don't think we would even have to give up a first.

But why whould we want to add Westbrook though?

[Rusty]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1334300248743813125?s=20

[Dverde]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1334300248743813125?s=20

All those Westbricks became a Wall. I never want to hear the term “un-tradable contract” ever again.

[Dejounte]

Wall is garbage

[paperboy77]

Actually this seems like a good trade for both teams. Clearly WB is beyond the guy we remember. He just didn't fit that Rockets team. Maybe on a Wizards team looking for a big name, which he still is, he may be able to live out his NBA days trying to be "the man" on a shitty team.

Wall, on the other hand, was in need of a scenery change like no other. The guy has a shitload of talent and ability but was wasted by the team... and by his own ego. I like it.

[Dejounte]

Actually this seems like a good trade for both teams. Clearly WB is beyond the guy we remember. He just didn't fit that Rockets team. Maybe on a Wizards team looking for a big name, which he still is, he may be able to live out his NBA days trying to be "the man" on a shitty team.

Wall, on the other hand, was in need of a scenery change like no other. The guy has a shitload of talent and ability but was wasted by the team... and by his own ego. I like it.

Wall also hasn't played in two years. What made him an allstar was his speed. That's clearly gone

[offset formation]

Wall also hasn't played in two years. What made him an allstar was his speed. That's clearly gone

Pretty elite handles and a nice driver and finisher though. And he's a better shot than WB

[paperboy77]

Wall also hasn't played in two years. What made him an allstar was his speed. That's clearly gone

Yeah... but just in an overall perspective. Wall has always been completely overrated in my head but he's actually pretty good. Just feel a change like this one... Houston, Tx is nowhere near DC. Total change that i think will help him out. If not then this guy is pure shit, overrated, lucky human to get that rich type of money.

[exstatic]

All those Westbricks became a Wall. I never want to hear the term “un-tradable contract” ever again.

Every time one of these untradeable SuperMax contracts actually gets traded, it’s usually for another one. CP3 for Westbrook for Wall. They just get passed around like a two dollah ho.

Houston will realize in the fullness of time that they traded the wrong player in 2019. Harden ran off two really good players in two years, and now wants out himself. He’s bitch made, for all the regular season numbers he puts up. He’s up there in the top 3 of NBA cancers. He’s literally destroyed the Rockets franchise with his demands to trade away players he can’t mesh with. If they can’t get a haul for him, and it’s not likely now everyone knows he wants out, they may not recover for a decade. The picks and pick swaps for last years CP3 trade alone will cripple them.

[Mr. Body]

Actually this seems like a good trade for both teams. Clearly WB is beyond the guy we remember. He just didn't fit that Rockets team. Maybe on a Wizards team looking for a big name, which he still is, he may be able to live out his NBA days trying to be "the man" on a shitty team.

Wall, on the other hand, was in need of a scenery change like no other. The guy has a shitload of talent and ability but was wasted by the team... and by his own ego. I like it.

Wall never did jack shit in Washington, plus now he's coming off major injury. Rockets need a total redesign, although I doubt Harden will back out of his 'I get to do 99% of everything' role. What a mess.

Washington getting Westbrook is great for them. Gets an appealing player without many expectations in an eternally weak conference.

[Mr. Body]

Every time one of these untradeable SuperMax contracts actually gets traded, it’s usually for another one. CP3 for Westbrook for Wall. They just get passed around like a two dollah ho.

Houston will realize in the fullness of time that they traded the wrong player in 2019. Harden ran off two really good players in two years, and now wants out himself. He’s bitch made, for all the regular season numbers he puts up. He’s up there in the top 3 of NBA cancers. He’s literally destroyed the Rockets franchise with his demands to trade away players he can’t mesh with. If they can’t get a haul for him, and it’s not likely now everyone knows he wants out, they may not recover for a decade. The picks and pick swaps for last years CP3 trade alone will cripple them.

I have no idea what Houston does with this jackhole on their roster and no way to move forward. Pringles catered to him and I don't think he can play any other style. Not only is Harden a massive ball hog and a crater on defense, he's the biggest suck in the clutch since Karl Malone. No one talks about it -- somehow it's the team's fault instead of his -- but Harden shrivels down to a walnut in the playoff clutch.

[Dejounte]

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/27/16940178/nba-achilles-injury-history-kevin-durant-golden-state-warriors-future

[Prime BEEF]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1334300248743813125?s=20
The wizards definitely win this trade. lol @ the rockets

[KobesAchilles]

What was the point of adding that 1st rounder for the Rockets side? It was always gonna be a lottery pick :lol

Maybe Harden stays now tho

[exstatic]

The wizards definitely win this trade. lol @ the rockets

I think the teams just traded problems and bad contracts. Westbrook had a good season, but his knee isn’t getting any healthier. When Beverly caused his torn meniscus, it started a clock that ends with bone on bone, just like Tim. Probably sooner, though, since his game is played above the rim.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

All those Westbricks became a Wall. I never want to hear the term “un-tradable contract” ever again.

So Rockets traded Chris Paul and 4 picks (2 swaps) for Westbrook and then got back a player who hasn't played in 2 years and 1 conditional pick that could well turn into 2 second round picks. All this in a year's work. Are you trying to present this as a win for Houston somehow?

Two untradable contracts got traded for each other, that's all.

[Maddog]

All those Westbricks became a Wall. I never want to hear the term “un-tradable contract” ever again.


Every time one of these untradeable SuperMax contracts actually gets traded, it’s usually for another one. CP3 for Westbrook for Wall. They just get passed around like a two dollah ho.

Houston will realize in the fullness of time that they traded the wrong player in 2019. Harden ran off two really good players in two years, and now wants out himself. He’s bitch made, for all the regular season numbers he puts up. He’s up there in the top 3 of NBA cancers. He’s literally destroyed the Rockets franchise with his demands to trade away players he can’t mesh with. If they can’t get a haul for him, and it’s not likely now everyone knows he wants out, they may not recover for a decade. The picks and pick swaps for last years CP3 trade alone will cripple them.

Right.
Wall and Brick are both owed essentially the same amount of money. Huge amount.
WB is 32 a player who has relied on his athleticism and JW is 30- a player who relies on his speed and hasn't played in a season and a half.
Both are career poor 3 point shooters-.305 vs .324
It's a wash. JW next to Harden doesn't make any more sense than WB.

[The Truth #6]

CP3. Wall. Westbrook. They all three have major problems. They’re all divisive in my opinion. I say let them crash.

[Truckules]

CP3. Wall. Westbrook. They all three have major problems. They’re all divisive in my opinion. I say let them crash.

CP3 doesn't belong in that list. He has 2 years left on his supermax and proved last year that he's still a star. Westbrook's game seems to be declining faster than CP3's and he still has 3 years on the supermax. Wall's never been close to as good as Westbrook or CP3, is coming off of an Achilles injury, has played 79 games combined in the past 3 seasons and still has 3 left on the supermax. Wall's by far the worst of that group. Every Rockets' trade makes them worse than the one before.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Every time one of these untradeable SuperMax contracts actually gets traded, it’s usually for another one. CP3 for Westbrook for Wall. They just get passed around like a two dollah ho.

Houston will realize in the fullness of time that they traded the wrong player in 2019. Harden ran off two really good players in two years, and now wants out himself. He’s bitch made, for all the regular season numbers he puts up. He’s up there in the top 3 of NBA cancers. He’s literally destroyed the Rockets franchise with his demands to trade away players he can’t mesh with. If they can’t get a haul for him, and it’s not likely now everyone knows he wants out, they may not recover for a decade. The picks and pick swaps for last years CP3 trade alone will cripple them.

This.

The Rockets made the Western Conference Finals and came close to beating the Warriors largely due to CP3 getting the measure of Steph and adding that mid-range efficient wrinkle. Too bad he hurt his hamstring and that killed the Rockets' chances.

Harden is always going to be a regular season monster and little more than that. By remaking an offense to be entirely played out as Harden-ISO plus streaky three point shooting from others even as his defensive work comes and goes is never going to be a recipe for success in the post-season. Sean Marks will be a fool to trade for Harden and giving up LeVert/ Dinwiddie who in particular has played admirably well for the shorthanded Nets without Durant & Irving.

The Spurs should take this as an opportunity to hunt for a slot in the playoffs. A broken down John Wall plus a disinterested James Harden is a combination that will keep the Rockets off the playoffs. With Thunder out too and GSW without Klay Thompson, it will be a battle between the Warriors, Suns, Spurs, Grizzlies and Pelicans for the 7th and 8th seeds. Should be a good challenge for our young core.

[BillMc]

CP3 doesn't belong in that list. He has 2 years left on his supermax and proved last year that he's still a star. Westbrook's game seems to be declining faster than CP3's and he still has 3 years on the supermax. Wall's never been close to as good as Westbrook or CP3, is coming off of an Achilles injury, has played 79 games combined in the past 3 seasons and still has 3 left on the supermax. Wall's by far the worst of that group. Every Rockets' trade makes them worse than the one before.

Agree that CP3's game is holding up but he's still divisive as The Truth said. For whatever reason, he's not gotten along with teammates wherever he's gone. It might be he just pushes them too hard or in the wrong way, or it might be something else, don't know. Anyway, Westbrook and Wall trading places won't elevate either team much. Washington might be better just because they'll have another major player, but they're not coming out of the East by a long shot. Houston is done as a contender (if they ever were).

[Spursfanfromafar]

Agree that CP3's game is holding up but he's still divisive as The Truth said. For whatever reason, he's not gotten along with teammates wherever he's gone. It might be he just pushes them too hard or in the wrong way, or it might be something else, don't know. Anyway, Westbrook and Wall trading places won't elevate either team much. Washington might be better just because they'll have another major player, but they're not coming out of the East by a long shot. Houston is done as a contender (if they ever were).

Dont know if any New Orleans Hornets player ever complained about CP3. The only dudes who had problems with CP3 were either one-dimensional folks like DeAndre Jordan or overrated "stars" like Blake Griffin and James Harden (Harden is more of an overrated superstar). CP3 is an old school PG and he is a ball-breaker and noisy dude with a Napolean complex, yes. But he makes his team better on the court for sure.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/kevkage_/status/1334304489956892672?s=19

[Prime BEEF]

Dont know if any New Orleans Hornets player ever complained about CP3. The only dudes who had problems with CP3 were either one-dimensional folks like DeAndre Jordan or overrated "stars" like Blake Griffin and James Harden (Harden is more of an overrated superstar). CP3 is an old school PG and he is a ball-breaker and noisy dude with a Napolean complex, yes. But he makes his team better on the court for sure.
Agree with this. CP3 is a great player. However, the issue with him is injuries.

[BillMc]

Dont know if any New Orleans Hornets player ever complained about CP3. The only dudes who had problems with CP3 were either one-dimensional folks like DeAndre Jordan or overrated "stars" like Blake Griffin and James Harden (Harden is more of an overrated superstar). CP3 is an old school PG and he is a ball-breaker and noisy dude with a Napolean complex, yes. But he makes his team better on the court for sure.

Lots of former teammates have had issues with Paul even beyond those you mentioned. Ryan Hollins, Glen Davis, Austin Rivers, the list goes on. I'm not out to assassinate Paul's character but the list is pretty long. And I don't think he's a clown like Dwight Howard. He's just a hard ass, that some don't like.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Lots of former teammates have had issues with Paul even beyond those you mentioned. Ryan Hollins, Glen Davis, Austin Rivers, the list goes on. I'm not out to assassinate Paul's character but the list is pretty long. And I don't think he's a clown like Dwight Howard. He's just a hard ass, that some don't like.

Thanks, but you just made my point. Read that list of players you mentioned again - Ryan Hollins, Glen Davis, Austin Rivers. The first one is a clown who played in the NBA because he was 7 ft tall (thats all). Big Baby had his moments with the Celtics, but was an overrated diva who ate his way out of the league and the third dude thinks he is entitled because of his dad and is an average journeyman. All three of these folks will have problems with a hard-nosed competitor who will call them out for oafishness/ entitlement/ mediocrity.

CP3 has his flaws - his overbearing attitude sometimes translates to some hilarious clutch mistakes, but no one can doubt his competitiveness and high basketball IQ. Heck, he could have been a good Spur if he had not made the choice to go to the Rockets.

[KobesAchilles]

Thanks, but you just made my point. Read that list of players you mentioned again - Ryan Hollins, Glen Davis, Austin Rivers. The first one is a clown who played in the NBA because he was 7 ft tall (thats all). Big Baby had his moments with the Celtics, but was an overrated diva who ate his way out of the league and the third dude thinks he is entitled because of his dad and is an average journeyman. All three of these folks will have problems with a hard-nosed competitor who will call them out for oafishness/ entitlement/ mediocrity.

CP3 has his flaws - his overbearing attitude sometimes translates to some hilarious clutch mistakes, but no one can doubt his competitiveness and high basketball IQ. Heck, he could have been a good Spur if he had not made the choice to go to the Rockets.
I agree with the assessment, but Chris Paul lost his team the second he made that stupid dumbass flopping turnover against Westbrook. To me, that's the stupidest super star play in NBA history bc the dude was 90 feet away from the basket and tried to do a 3 point full court shot flop :lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

https://twitter.com/kevkage_/status/1334304489956892672?s=19

So Houston will have 2 of the 3 guys with the highest percentage of time walking or standing on the court from last year--Harden and Wall. Are they going to run the pick-n-stand? At least we won't be watching those games.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

So Houston will have 2 of the 3 guys with the highest percentage of time walking or standing on the court from last year--Harden and Wall. Are they going to run the pick-n-stand? At least we won't be watching those games.

Wall won't make them better Russ did, that's for sure.

Harden will probably be in New Jersey soon anyway. Although I don't see Sean Marks pulling a Steve Ballmer and giving up the entire future of the franchise to get him. Harden will have to make himself so much of a distraction that Houston is happy to pull the ripcord for whatever scraps they can get back, ala the Spurs and Kawhi. The Harden fire sale.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Spurms are the dumbest FO in the League for DECADES.... now.... when in comes to understanding the cap or getting players and assets.

Getting a guy who hasn't played in two years under a max contract in exchange for a guy that many still consider an elite talent can't exactly be categorized as a win.

If this were the Spurs deal you'd be complaining about how dumb of a move it was by our FO. Pop could sign baby Jesus to run the point and you'd complain about our new guard's character issues.

[Sugus]

Getting a guy who hasn't played in two years under a max contract in exchange for a guy that many still consider an elite talent can't exactly be categorized as a win.

If this were the Spurs deal you'd be complaining about how dumb of a move it was by our FO. Pop could sign baby Jesus to run the point and you'd complain about our new guard's character issues.

SpursTalk pathology, tbh :lol

[The Truth #6]

Agree with this. CP3 is a great player. However, the issue with him is injuries.

I admit that CP3 is the better of those 3 players. But as you said there are injuries. I will add: a history of choking, a ridiculously overpriced contract, and at least in my opinion, others might not share it, he is a dirty little ho that I would not want on my team.

[TD 21]

Most likely, it ends up lose-lose but it's a sensible trade.

I actually prefer it for the Rockets. Even though Wall is a virtual unknown at this point, he's 2 years younger and has a higher basketball IQ, so he probably has a better chance to age gracefully, relatively speaking. He's also a better (though still subpar) catch and shoot 3-point shooter, which makes him a better fit to play off of Harden in the interim.

In general, they've actually has a solid off season, it's just been obscured by all the drama.

[baseline bum]

Most likely, it ends up lose-lose but it's a sensible trade.

I actually prefer it for the Rockets. Even though Wall is a virtual unknown at this point, he's 2 years younger and has a higher basketball IQ, so he probably has a better chance to age gracefully, relatively speaking. He's also a better (though still subpar) catch and shoot 3-point shooter, which makes him a better fit to play off of Harden in the interim.

In general, they've actually has a solid off season, it's just been obscured by all the drama.

Disagree that Wall is an unknown. He tore his achilles and became a fat bastard, he's the worst contract in the league and it's not even close.

[Dverde]

So Rockets traded Chris Paul and 4 picks (2 swaps) for Westbrook and then got back a player who hasn't played in 2 years and 1 conditional pick that could well turn into 2 second round picks. All this in a year's work. Are you trying to present this as a win for Houston somehow?

Two untradable contracts got traded for each other, that's all.

No, it merely shows that any contract can be moved in this league. I would rather have one legged Wall than two legged Westbrick. Plus they got a pick. I probably would give the W to Houston.

[TD 21]

Disagree that Wall is an unknown. He tore his achilles and became a fat bastard, he's the worst contract in the league and it's not even close.

Unknown in the sense that he hasn't played in 2 years. He's obviously an albatross and past his prime, but I like his chances of transitioning into a useful role player better than Wesbtrook's.

[baseline bum]

Unknown in the sense that he hasn't played in 2 years. He's obviously an albatross and past his prime, but I like his chances of transitioning into a useful role player better than Wesbtrook's.

I don't. Torn achilles + fat + bad attitude + questionable work ethic + never being that great a player before injury all work against him. Westbrook may be a cancer but I don't think anyone would ever accuse him of being a lazy ass just there to cash his check. And Westbrook won't be a role player in DC, he's the franchise.

[tonight...you]

Getting a guy who hasn't played in two years under a max contract in exchange for a guy that many still consider an elite talent can't exactly be categorized as a win.

If this were the Spurs deal you'd be complaining about how dumb of a move it was by our FO. Pop could sign baby Jesus to run the point and you'd complain about our new guard's character issues.
5 pound 7 ounce baby Jesus? Never mind the character issues, I don't like the measurables.

[tonight...you]

Disagree that Wall is an unknown. He tore his achilles and became a fat bastard, he's the worst contract in the league and it's not even close.
I'm pretty sure I saw a few recent pics of old boy and he ain't fat no more. He looked ripped.
Now, can he ball like he used to and not get injured again? That's up in the air, for sure.
And IIRC, he was basically a lesser version of Westbrook before anyways.

[TD 21]

I don't. Torn achilles + fat + bad attitude + questionable work ethic + never being that great a player before injury all work against him. Westbrook may be a cancer but I don't think anyone would ever accuse him of being a lazy ass just there to cash his check. And Westbrook won't be a role player in DC, he's the franchise.

He's back in shape and has generally raised his level of play in the playoffs. By the way, Westbrook has had I believe 4 knee surgeries, quad issues and Covid 19.

:lmao I'm sure in Westbrook's delusional mind he'll be the franchise, but in reality it'll be Beal.

That's the problem with Westbrook. Doesn't have the mentality or game to age gracefully.

[GAustex]

I remember that Westbrick try for the game winner vs Spurs-pull up for the win- off the top of the backboard and off the shot clock. Lol

[Mr. Body]

John Wall at his best was completely inconsequential in the league, important only in a small unlikely region that mattered nothing elsewhere. Westbrook is a chucking weirdo fiend, but he was at least good and threatened to actually win things.

[Prime BEEF]

I don't. Torn achilles + fat + bad attitude + questionable work ethic + never being that great a player before injury all work against him. Westbrook may be a cancer but I don't think anyone would ever accuse him of being a lazy ass just there to cash his check. And Westbrook won't be a role player in DC, he's the franchise.
Spot on

[paperboy77]

Wall never did jack shit in Washington, plus now he's coming off major injury. Rockets need a total redesign, although I doubt Harden will back out of his 'I get to do 99% of everything' role. What a mess.

Washington getting Westbrook is great for them. Gets an appealing player without many expectations in an eternally weak conference.

Either way I think. Not a huge fan of any of those teams or players. Every failing dynasty or top tier team that starts to fade really makes me think of how good we had it.

[tonight...you]

Spot on
Except for the fact he isn't fat anymore, but carry on!

[pad300]

I don't. Torn achilles + fat + bad attitude + questionable work ethic + never being that great a player before injury all work against him. Westbrook may be a cancer but I don't think anyone would ever accuse him of being a lazy ass just there to cash his check. And Westbrook won't be a role player in DC, he's the franchise.

That attitude right there illustrates the problem. Chuckbrook is to old to be the franchise in DC. Beal is the franchise. If Chucky tries to be the franchise, he will destroy that team.

[pookenstein]

Pop could sign baby Jesus to run the point and you'd complain about our new guard's character issues.

He should have signed Baby Yoda anyway. At least he doesn't offer the other cheek when being hit.

[Atl Spur]

Most likely, it ends up lose-lose but it's a sensible trade.

I actually prefer it for the Rockets. Even though Wall is a virtual unknown at this point, he's 2 years younger and has a higher basketball IQ, so he probably has a better chance to age gracefully, relatively speaking. He's also a better (though still subpar) catch and shoot 3-point shooter, which makes him a better fit to play off of Harden in the interim.

In general, they've actually has a solid off season, it's just been obscured by all the drama.
Wall has NEVER been as good as Russ!

[lefty]

Lots of former teammates have had issues with Paul even beyond those you mentioned. Ryan Hollins, Glen Davis, Austin Rivers, the list goes on. I'm not out to assassinate Paul's character but the list is pretty long. And I don't think he's a clown like Dwight Howard. He's just a hard ass, that some don't like.
Well coming from those clowns it doesn'T mean much :lol

[KobesAchilles]

Well coming from those clowns it doesn'T mean much :lol
i love how people pretend to take Austin Rivers words seriously. Dude was only in the league bc of his daddy and he still believes that he is as good as anybody else in the league. He says it's that attitude that keeps him in the league, but that shit attitude only works for actual elite players. OTOH role players actually have to find their strengths and weaknesses and play according to those.

[exstatic]

i love how people pretend to take Austin Rivers words seriously. Dude was only in the league bc of his daddy and he still believes that he is as good as anybody else in the league. He says it's that attitude that keeps him in the league, but that shit attitude only works for actual elite players. OTOH role players actually have to find their strengths and weaknesses and play according to those.

Stephen Jackson comes to mind. Jonathon Simmons, too.

[TD 21]

Wall has NEVER been as good as Russ!

That has nothing to do with what I said!

[lefty20]

The mental gymnastic they're performing to explain why this is a nbd really something special, tbh.

1335651592863944704

[exstatic]

The mental gymnastic they're performing to explain why this is a nbd really something special, tbh.

1335651592863944704

This, a day after the NBA said they were going to crack down on COVID stupidity by players, and punish them. Yeah, right.

[lefty20]

So you only see a guy who is Stupid because he isn't following some arbitrary rules from the NBA?

Your are aware he is trying to force a trade? He hasn't reported to "camp"?

Maybe if a guy who doesn't want to play for his team SHOULD violate some arbitrary rule that will cause his TEAM not to play him or let him in the facility until they eventually TRADE HIM.

So that seems "stupid" to you?

I mean taking the risk of contracting covid for the sake of making a point does seem "stupid", tbh.

[tonight...you]

I mean taking the risk of contracting covid for the sake of making a point does seem "stupid", tbh.
He thinks Covid is the common cold.

[Dex]

Harden gets shown at the strip club last night partying with a gang of strippers, but doesn't show up to his first team practice.

Now his new coach is already throwing him under the bus (and rightfully so).

It's always fun to watch Houston implode, but usually it happens much later in the season.

[Atl Spur]

But but but we have terrible org...... crazy times!!

[KobesAchilles]

Harden gets shown at the strip club last night partying with a gang of strippers, but doesn't show up to his first team practice.

Now his new coach is already throwing him under the bus (and rightfully so).

It's always fun to watch Houston implode, but usually it happens much later in the season.
guess my invite got lost in the mail. SMH Harden.

[Rusty]

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1335669330294566912?s=20

sounds familiar, anyone? :D

[Dex]

Oh, youre one of those guys.... ....

over 300 players in the nfl got covid and have recovered... bruh... not that big a deal for like 99.5% of the world.... unplug from media and have talk with your family physician...

Doctors are still unsure what the long term affects from COVID are.

I personally have friends and coworkers who got hit hard by it and said that they felt run down for weeks even after "recovering". Some of them still feel like they aren't back to 100%...constant fatigue, lethargy, sore throat, nausea, etc.

Even in the NBA, Karl Anthony-Towns said he has had 7 family members and friends die from it.

This shit ain't the common cold and is certainly a "big deal". Any physician worth his salt would tell you that.

[TD 21]

This is the legacy of Scumbag's unethical antics and the results of them and what the agenda driven media missed while they were busy slurping him/the Raptors and burying the Spurs.

These guys are now emboldened to literally flat out quit on a franchise paying them obscene amounts of money because of that and to a lesser extent Davis. They got what and where they were seeking, so Harden probably figures he can do the same.

[baseline bum]

Damn Harden is such a little bitch. Houston should just dump him to some other shit team and tank. Not like they're going to get anything good for Harden anyways.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/alec_sturm/status/1335988102381383680?s=19

Bye Harden

KobesAchilles

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/ApolloHOU/status/1335976140423487488?s=19

[KobesAchilles]

https://twitter.com/alec_sturm/status/1335988102381383680?s=19

Bye Harden

KobesAchilles (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=50221)

It hasn't happened yet. Also, Idk if you saw this, but I have us getting the 2 seed this year. I'm all aboard the Spurs wagon :toast

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/hmfaigen/status/1336003223597895680?s=19

[Dejounte]

It hasn't happened yet. Also, Idk if you saw this, but I have us getting the 2 seed this year. I'm all aboard the Spurs wagon :toast

Bold take...even I'm not that high on them. :bobo

[Dex]

So what did your physician tell you about it?

He told me you're an idiot.

[KobesAchilles]

Bold take...even I'm not that high on them. :bobo
I just feel like the schedule is super easy and gonna get easier for us. Feel like Curry will be out again. Durant/Kyrie will be hurt. The East lost a lot of depth and we don't have to face the upper teams to start the year. We got this

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/melissarohlin/status/1336035032507375616?s=19

New Rockets coach needs PR lessons

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/clutchfans/status/1336034291906699264?s=19

https://twitter.com/cayleighgriffin/status/1336034805885100033?s=19

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/1336035549497462786?s=19

Kawhi Leonard redux

https://twitter.com/KellyIkoNBA/status/1336034288928759808

[RD2191]

What's the point of contracts if any player can just force a trade whenever they'd like? I mean I guess it goes both ways as teams can also trade players without warning or notice but this is bad for the NBA and just bad for sports in general. Harden is like the 4th or 5th star player to force a trade these past few years, tf is that all about?

[Dejounte]

What's the point of contracts if any player can just force a trade whenever they'd like? I mean I guess it goes both ways as teams can also trade players without warning or notice but this is bad for the NBA and just bad for sports in general. Harden is like the 4th or 5th star player to force a trade these past few years, tf is that all about?

bitch made athletes, that's what

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/SportsTalk790/status/1336040855392694285

Get PJ here on a bargain deal. One of my favorite defensive players. Young guys would learn a lot from him.

[baseline bum]

What's the point of contracts if any player can just force a trade whenever they'd like? I mean I guess it goes both ways as teams can also trade players without warning or notice but this is bad for the NBA and just bad for sports in general. Harden is like the 4th or 5th star player to force a trade these past few years, tf is that all about?

Faggot ass Leonard starting all this shit. How is this league supposed to function if everyone is just a farm team for the Lakers and Nets? Back when star players had to wait for free agency it was still a risk to big market teams to have to clear space and hope they could sign them. Worked well for the Lakers going after LeBron but no so much the Knicks for example. But now you sign a guy to a contract and if he doesn't live up to it you're stuck with him, if he does live up to it he forces his way to a bigger market? Bullshit. I see no way team owners aren't going to force NFL style contracts on the league if star players aren't going to live up to their contracts. Leonard, George, Davis, Westbrook, Harden all forcing their way out while paid handsomely on multi-year deals is ridiculous. If players want to keep their options open do like Jordan did and sign one year deals, but having effective free agency while still getting guaranteed long term money is bullshit.

[baseline bum]

I'm not going to shed a tear when NBA players have to say bye bye to their guaranteed contracts in the next CBA and they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

[RD2191]

Faggot ass Leonard starting all this shit. How is this league supposed to function if everyone is just a farm team for the Lakers and Nets? Back when star players had to wait for free agency it was still a risk to big market teams to have to clear space and hope they could sign them. Worked well for the Lakers going after LeBron but no so much the Knicks for example. But now you sign a guy to a contract and if he doesn't live up to it you're stuck with him, if he does live up to it he forces his way to a bigger market? Bullshit. I see no way team owners aren't going to force NFL style contracts on the league if star players aren't going to live up to their contracts. Leonard, George, Davis, Westbrook, Harden all forcing their way out while paid handsomely on multi-year deals is ridiculous. If players want to keep their options open do like Jordan did and sign one year deals, but having effective free agency while still getting guaranteed long term money is bullshit.
Great post tbh and pretty much agree with everything you've said. I don't see the current contract situations being sustainable so we'll see what happens. Something has to be done imo

[Dex]

Faggot ass Leonard starting all this shit. How is this league supposed to function if everyone is just a farm team for the Lakers and Nets? Back when star players had to wait for free agency it was still a risk to big market teams to have to clear space and hope they could sign them. Worked well for the Lakers going after LeBron but no so much the Knicks for example. But now you sign a guy to a contract and if he doesn't live up to it you're stuck with him, if he does live up to it he forces his way to a bigger market? Bullshit. I see no way team owners aren't going to force NFL style contracts on the league if star players aren't going to live up to their contracts. Leonard, George, Davis, Westbrook, Harden all forcing their way out while paid handsomely on multi-year deals is ridiculous. If players want to keep their options open do like Jordan did and sign one year deals, but having effective free agency while still getting guaranteed long term money is bullshit.

Don't forget Chris Paul.

He's the president of the NBPA and knew he could use that influence to secure that bag.

Once he got it, he was disgruntled with the Clippers then forced his way out of Houston.

He helped write the card for the rest of the players, then signed it.

[timtonymanu]

He told me you're an idiot.

Even idiot is too nice of a word for that imbecile

[baseline bum]

Don't forget Chris Paul.

He's the president of the NBPA and knew he could use that influence to secure that bag.

Once he got it, he was disgruntled with the Clippers then forced his way out of Houston.

He helped write the card for the rest of the players, then signed it.

I don't have a problem with what Paul did. He went and told the Clippers trade him or he was going to decline his option and become a free agent and then he got his big long term deal the next summer from Houston. That's different from players on multiyear deals forcing their way out of town after securing the commitment. I also have no problem with Paul George telling the Pacers he was going to leave in free agency in a year so they might explore trading him to keep from losing him for nothing. But him forcing a trade out of OKC after only one year of a huge five year deal was beyond chickenshit.

[exstatic]

Faggot ass Leonard starting all this shit. How is this league supposed to function if everyone is just a farm team for the Lakers and Nets? Back when star players had to wait for free agency it was still a risk to big market teams to have to clear space and hope they could sign them. Worked well for the Lakers going after LeBron but no so much the Knicks for example. But now you sign a guy to a contract and if he doesn't live up to it you're stuck with him, if he does live up to it he forces his way to a bigger market? Bullshit. I see no way team owners aren't going to force NFL style contracts on the league if star players aren't going to live up to their contracts. Leonard, George, Davis, Westbrook, Harden all forcing their way out while paid handsomely on multi-year deals is ridiculous. If players want to keep their options open do like Jordan did and sign one year deals, but having effective free agency while still getting guaranteed long term money is bullshit.

Actually, the first one I remember was that asshat Eric Gordon, after he was flipped to NO as part of the CP3 trade. Now, he has to put up with another ‘him’ destroying his current team. Karma, bitch.

[Seventyniner]

Faggot ass Leonard starting all this shit. How is this league supposed to function if everyone is just a farm team for the Lakers and Nets? Back when star players had to wait for free agency it was still a risk to big market teams to have to clear space and hope they could sign them. Worked well for the Lakers going after LeBron but no so much the Knicks for example. But now you sign a guy to a contract and if he doesn't live up to it you're stuck with him, if he does live up to it he forces his way to a bigger market? Bullshit. I see no way team owners aren't going to force NFL style contracts on the league if star players aren't going to live up to their contracts. Leonard, George, Davis, Westbrook, Harden all forcing their way out while paid handsomely on multi-year deals is ridiculous. If players want to keep their options open do like Jordan did and sign one year deals, but having effective free agency while still getting guaranteed long term money is bullshit.

Well said. :bobo

At the very least, I expect another 1-year reduction in the maximum contract length in the next CBA, and maybe even 2. If players only are ever under contract for at most one season beyond the current one it's much harder to hold the teams hostage because they can just wait it out.

And yes, I know that Number Two bitched out in that same situation. The max contract length reduction won't solve all the problems, but if those problems continue then I can totally see a push by the owners for mostly non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL.

[baseline bum]

Actually, the first one I remember was that asshat Eric Gordon, after he was flipped to NO as part of the CP3 trade. Now, he has to put up with another ‘him’ destroying his current team. Karma, bitch.

True, I guess no one really gave a shit about Gordon though so he never started the trend that Leonard put into full motion among star players on guaranteed deals.

[baseline bum]

Well said. :bobo

At the very least, I expect another 1-year reduction in the maximum contract length in the next CBA, and maybe even 2. If players only are ever under contract for at most one season beyond the current one it's much harder to hold the teams hostage because they can just wait it out.

And yes, I know that Number Two bitched out in that same situation. The max contract length reduction won't solve all the problems, but if those problems continue then I can totally see a push by the owners for mostly non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL.

IDK, I think it's time for something more drastic. A few years of NFL style contracts and the NBAPA will be begging for guaranteed contracts and will be willing for them to have some teeth in enforcing them. Might be too late though, once the owners get NFL contracts there might be no going back. The NBAPA has really killed the golden goose.

[FkLA]

I agree with bb that this type of shit ruins it for the small markets. Tbf though, theres someone like Blake Griffin on the other side of the spectrum. They put on a huge ass presentation for him just to trade him to a shit hole a year later. But cant feel too bad them since they're rewarded handsomely for those kind of "sacrifices".

NFL type contract would be great for the NBA. Theres no way cities like Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Baltimore would have elite franchises in the NBA. The parity in the NFL is awesome, tbh.

[Seventyniner]

IDK, I think it's time for something more drastic. A few years of NFL style contracts and the NBAPA will be begging for guaranteed contracts and will be willing for them to have some teeth in enforcing them. Might be too late though, once the owners get NFL contracts there might be no going back. The NBAPA has really killed the golden goose.

I agree, especially on the bolded part. It seems that every new CBA is better for the owners and worse for the players than the previous one.

[Seventyniner]

The real prize for the NBA owners would be a hard salary cap. That means cost certainty and no luxury tax. It would be nearly impossible with current guaranteed contracts, so those would have to go also.

Obviously the NBPA would fight tooth and nail over this, and would likely strike. But I can't see them prevailing if the owners really dig in, "you can't strike because we're locking you out!". It's a big enough deal that replacement players could be a thing for a while too.

[baseline bum]

I agree with bb that this type of shit ruins it for the small markets. Tbf though, theres someone like Blake Griffin on the other side of the spectrum. They put on a huge ass presentation for him just to trade him to a shit hole a year later. But cant feel too bad them since they're rewarded handsomely for those kind of "sacrifices".

NFL type contract would be great for the NBA. Theres no way cities like Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Baltimore would have elite franchises in the NBA. The parity in the NFL is awesome, tbh.

Did Griffin negotiate a trade kicker? 15% is pretty standard. If he didn't he probably signed the deal knowing the Clippers intended on trading him. Yeah it's hard to imagine an NBA right now where a team in a market like Kansas City could be dominant like we see in the NFL. Spurs only did it because they hit the lottery twice with Tim and Manu and had Pop.

[TD 21]

I don't see what the league can do about these insecure, groupthink divas wanting to play in big markets and essentially run their franchises, but those are separate issues.

Players wanting those things, for whatever reason(s), it's their career/life, so whatever. But throwing tantrums, dragging your incumbent team through the mud, while attempting to strongarm them and lowering your value in the process (won't happen in this case), is unacceptable and it's time these pukes start facing repercussions for their actions.

[Dex]

I don't have a problem with what Paul did. He went and told the Clippers trade him or he was going to decline his option and become a free agent and then he got his big long term deal the next summer from Houston. That's different from players on multiyear deals forcing their way out of town after securing the commitment. I also have no problem with Paul George telling the Pacers he was going to leave in free agency in a year so they might explore trading him to keep from losing him for nothing. But him forcing a trade out of OKC after only one year of a huge five year deal was beyond chickenshit.

Paul still duped Houston into giving him one of the worst contracts in the NBA - paying a guy who will be going on 37-years of age 44.2M in the last year- and then he noped right out of their team once the going got rough.

That indirectly hurt the Rockets because they had to shed a bunch of draft picks just to take on Westbrook's shitty contract, then they had to take on John Wall's shitty contract to get rid of Westbrook. They are walking away from the deal with a broken player on an equally-shitty contract, and a lottery-protected first rounder. The decision to give him that money may have very well broken their window.

Obviously, I don't mind watching the Rockets make dumb decisions, and it's hard to say how much of that was just to keep Harden happy when it sounds like they weren't happy playing together. But I also doubt Houston committed to 160M/4 with the expectation he would be wanting out after a year...and the fact that they willingly embraced it shows that these supermax contracts are just bad for teams in general.

Zach Lowe said it the other day...the moment that pen hits the paper, it becomes an albatross of a contract that most teams would be glad to get rid of unless you are playing at a Top 5 Player level.

[tonight...you]

He still duped Houston into giving him one of the worst contracts in the NBA - paying a guy who will be going on 37-years of age 44.2M in the last year- and then he noped right out of their team once the going got rough.

That indirectly hurt the Rockets because they had to shed a bunch of draft picks just to take on Westbrook's shitty contract, then they had to take on John Wall's shitty contract to get rid of Westbrook. They are walking away from the deal with a broken player on an equally-shitty contract, and a lottery-protected first rounder.

Obviously, I don't mind watching the Rockets make dumb decisions, and it's hard to say how much of that was just to keep Harden happy when it sounds like they weren't happy playing together. But I also doubt Houston committed to 160M/4 with the expectation he would be wanting out after a year...and the fact that they willingly embraced it shows that these supermax contracts are just bad for teams in general. Zach Lowe said it the other day...the moment that pen hits the paper, it becomes an albatross of a contract that most teams would be glad to get rid of unless you are playing at a Top 5 Player level.
Dude and then they offered him an extension at over 50 per!
They don't know how lucky they got with him turning that down.

[baseline bum]

Paul still duped Houston into giving him one of the worst contracts in the NBA - paying a guy who will be going on 37-years of age 44.2M in the last year- and then he noped right out of their team once the going got rough.

That indirectly hurt the Rockets because they had to shed a bunch of draft picks just to take on Westbrook's shitty contract, then they had to take on John Wall's shitty contract to get rid of Westbrook. They are walking away from the deal with a broken player on an equally-shitty contract, and a lottery-protected first rounder. The decision to give him that money may have very well broken their window.

Obviously, I don't mind watching the Rockets make dumb decisions, and it's hard to say how much of that was just to keep Harden happy when it sounds like they weren't happy playing together. But I also doubt Houston committed to 160M/4 with the expectation he would be wanting out after a year...and the fact that they willingly embraced it shows that these supermax contracts are just bad for teams in general.

Zach Lowe said it the other day...the moment that pen hits the paper, it becomes an albatross of a contract that most teams would be glad to get rid of unless you are playing at a Top 5 Player level.

Harden wanted Paul out. No way CP3 wanted to leave a title contender to go rebuild in OKC.

[BWS-1994]

Paul still duped Houston into giving him one of the worst contracts in the NBA - paying a guy who will be going on 37-years of age 44.2M in the last year- and then he noped right out of their team once the going got rough.

That indirectly hurt the Rockets because they had to shed a bunch of draft picks just to take on Westbrook's shitty contract, then they had to take on John Wall's shitty contract to get rid of Westbrook. They are walking away from the deal with a broken player on an equally-shitty contract, and a lottery-protected first rounder. The decision to give him that money may have very well broken their window.

Obviously, I don't mind watching the Rockets make dumb decisions, and it's hard to say how much of that was just to keep Harden happy when it sounds like they weren't happy playing together. But I also doubt Houston committed to 160M/4 with the expectation he would be wanting out after a year...and the fact that they willingly embraced it shows that these supermax contracts are just bad for teams in general.

Zach Lowe said it the other day...the moment that pen hits the paper, it becomes an albatross of a contract that most teams would be glad to get rid of unless you are playing at a Top 5 Player level.

I thought CP3 wanted to leave because of Harden? And the Rockets owner wanted to grant his request because he thought it was the worst contract he ever saw?

[Dex]

Harden wanted Paul out. No way CP3 wanted to leave a title contender to go rebuild in OKC.


I thought CP3 wanted to leave because of Harden? And the Rockets owner wanted to grant his request because he thought it was the worst contract he ever saw?

This just goes to show that there is a lot of gray area here. We'll probably never know who pissed off who first.

Whether Paul wanted out or Harden wanted him gone...the Rockets were the ones who signed off on the stupid contract for their apparently malcontent star, and it and pretty much ruined their future doing so.

And now their franchise player - the one who wanted them to bring in more help - wants out because of their stupid decisions.

[TD 21]

Harden wanted Paul traded and Westbrook traded for (Tillman also wanted the latter).

[Dejounte]

CIi6QrTJbkP

Harden still not reporting. He's in Philly now

[exstatic]

CIi6QrTJbkP

Harden still not reporting. He's in Philly now

I hope he waits until the end of pre-season. Don’t want him COVIDing all over the Spurs in our two preseason games.

[tonight...you]

CIi6QrTJbkP

Harden still not reporting. He's in Philly now
I thought it was cold as heck in Philly right now.

[Dex]

I hope he waits until the end of pre-season. Don’t want him COVIDing all over the Spurs in our two preseason games.

Is the league not implementing a quarantine period? Spurs play them within the next 11 days.

It would be lunacy to let him come back from all this shit he is doing and then just jump right back into practice or games.