Projected cap to be lower than expected - $99million

[Spurs9]

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Hows it effect the Spurs tbh? Can you blame less revenue from the Cavs/Warriors blowing everyone out and having less games this playoffs?

[picnroll]

Good news is that it'll hurt GS retaining their bench.

[cjw]

Less teams with space to give Simmons a crazy deal.

Slightly smaller max deal.

But a lot less margin for CP3. Almost certainly would mean one of Aldridge or Green gone.

And best of all, less room for Rockets and Warriors. Rockets are going to have less space to get a deal done, and almost impossible to keep both Iggy and Livingston.

[objective]

First impression is a bad one.

This is going to cost them players to free up room they might have been able to hang on to like Forbes or the Simmons cap hold, Milutinov, etc

[Uriel]

What are the implications of this for the Spurs?

Will we still be able to free up max cap space by dumping Green or will we have to make another move? Does this kill our chances of retaining Simmons if we get Chris Paul? What about Milutinov?

[SAGirl]

877728710073368576
Hows it effect the Spurs tbh? Can you blame less revenue from the Cavs/Warriors blowing everyone out and having less games this playoffs?
Yeah.. TV has been squeezed. Espn fired ppl.
The resting players scandal in nationally televised games (and we are talking young players not guys in the senior division).

[ace3g]

877760821224325120

[SAGirl]

First impression is a bad one.

This is going to cost them players to free up room they might have been able to hang on to like Forbes or the Simmons cap hold, Milutinov, etc

Simmons already got his QO at least.

It does affect Pau for example... he left a lot of money.

I have to consider Dedmon gone.

Dumping bad contracts maybe got a lot tougher?

[cjw]

877760821224325120

Beat me to it - this shows how little difference there is between the Clippers and any other team in year 1-4 dollars. It's $6-$7 million. Because player opts out after three years most likely, can start getting 8% raises then too and who knows? Cap could be higher though unlikely.

Press is stupid to keep parroting "leaving $50mm on the table". If this were the NFL, then yes, take the guaranteed money. In the NBA, much more earnings certainty in a few years.

[objective]

Might make the Spurs more likely to draft and stash.. If Jordan Bell is available I'd rather him, but I could get behind a Jonah Bolden draft and stash over some other guys like dj Wilson, Ivan Rabb, or other any American big left on the board.

Bolden being signed to Cvrena Zvezda, and with the Cvrena Zvezda coach helping the summer league team, it's pretty easy to imagine the Spurs going that way and saving the cap hold.

[cutewizard]

Livingston would be nice.........

[Chinook]

The lower the cap goes, the less it's worth trying to open a max slot. At this point, I'd just look for a PG to split the cap with Pau and call it a day. If you're serious about trading Danny and LMA, do it for value, not for cap. Fuck trying to move the Earth for Paul. You aren't going to be better than last year if you do what you have to to get a max contract -- especially if Pop is going to continue to be an idiot about Parker.

[MaNu4Tres]

Might make the Spurs more likely to draft and stash.. If Jordan Bell is available I'd rather him, but I could get behind a Jonah Bolden draft and stash over some other guys like dj Wilson, Ivan Rabb, or other any American big left on the board.

Bolden being signed to Cvrena Zvezda, and with the Cvrena Zvezda coach helping the summer league team, it's pretty easy to imagine the Spurs going that way and saving the cap hold.

I don't get the draft/stash route. Remember if Spurs draft/stash, they still have to replace the players cap hold w/ the 815K roster charge. That's a 600K difference between the roster charge and the rookie cap hold. Barely anything.

[MaNu4Tres]

The lower the cap goes, the less it's worth trying to open a max slot. At this point, I'd just look for a PG to split the cap with Pau and call it a day. If you're serious about trading Danny and LMA, do it for value, not for cap. Fuck trying to move the Earth for Paul. You aren't going to be better than last year if you do what you have to to get a max contract -- especially if Pop is going to continue to be an idiot about Parker.

I think Spurs also are considering the future w/ trading LA. If they don't see a future w/ him after next year, its best to create space and get an asset to supplement the team with now. Making moves to enhance Kawhi's next 5 years >> playing things close to the vest just for next year.

[MaNu4Tres]

With the new cap at 99 million, a max to Paul would cost 34.6 million against cap next year opposed to the 35.7 million that was estimated w/ cap at 101 million (IIRC).

A Hayward max would cost 29.7 million oppose to the 30.9 million.

[objective]

I don't get the draft/stash route. Remember if Spurs draft/stash, they still have to replace the players cap hold w/ the 815K roster charge. That's a 600K difference between the roster charge and the rookie cap hold. Barely anything.

It's enough for them to do. It seems small I agree, but the Spurs might not see it as so small.

Milutinov was stashed during the Aldridge summer. He could have come over easy, he didn't have a buyout issue, and was ready to be the 3rd string center, it's not like Boban played a bunch or stayed out of the d-league. They had squeezed out enough to sign Boban later, well after the agreement letter on the stash. But they had that reserve in case they needed it either for Aldridge or West. It's not like Pop was going to trust a rookie Boban any more than a rookie Milutinov. Better safe than sorry I think might be their approach, have that extra 600k just in case.

I don't know the deadline for both sides to agree in writing that the stashee will stay overseas and can't find it online. For all we know there's a hard deadline of June 30. If that's the case, the Spurs are more likely to be proactive just in case and get a player stashed and off the books.

[tholdren]

Yeah.. TV has been squeezed. Espn fired ppl.
The resting players scandal in nationally televised games (and we are talking young players not guys in the senior division).

Scandal? How about the casual fan just realized these guys arent as good as the media claims them to be and are tired of watching a mostly sub par product

[MaNu4Tres]

It's enough for them to do. It seems small I agree, but the Spurs might not see it as so small.

Milutinov was stashed during the Aldridge summer. He could have come over easy, he didn't have a buyout issue, and was ready to be the 3rd string center, it's not like Boban played a bunch or stayed out of the d-league. They had squeezed out enough to sign Boban later, well after the agreement letter on the stash. But they had that reserve in case they needed it either for Aldridge or West. It's not like Pop was going to trust a rookie Boban any more than a rookie Milutinov. Better safe than sorry I think might be their approach, have that extra 600k just in case.

I don't know the deadline for both sides to agree in writing that the stashee will stay overseas and can't find it online. For all we know there's a hard deadline of June 30. If that's the case, the Spurs are more likely to be proactive just in case and get a player stashed and off the books.

I'm sure if someone like Bell or someone valuable that they really liked was still on board at 29, Spurs would draft him still. They wouldn't just auto draft/stash no matter what. There's variables involved in the process. If most of the guys Spurs like are off board when they pick at 29, then yes, draft/stashing makes sense then. Spurs shouldn't know what they intend to do at 29 right now -- it all depends how things play out.

[MaNu4Tres]

Plus, if you actually do the math, Spurs won't have enough space for a max contract if they renounce Manu, Mills, Pau, DD, Lee. Trade DG. Then draft/stash pick, trade Kyle, trade Forbes. Still not enough. They have to trade another 10+ mil/year guy ( TP or LA). Trade LA and you get to keep pick, keep Kyle, keep Forbes/Bertans and have close to 50 mil in space.

With Pau declining option.

SA renouncing Manu, Pau, Mills, Dedmon, Lee.

SA trading DG.

Simmons cap hold at 1.67 mil

Spurs should be at 29,376,682 in space.

After that SA has options: If SA trades Kyle -- that's just creates 1.5 mil in space. Bringing us at 30.8 million. Then draft and stash the 29th -- that adds another 600K in space, which brings us at 31.4 million in space. Trading Forbes -- only saves around 100K (same w/ Bertans), which brings us at 31.5 million in space ( still not enough for CP3 Max).

However if SA trades LA and gets back a top 20 pick ( 2-4 million cap hold) that should create another 17-19 million in space, bringing SA to 46-49 million in space. Enough to sign CP3, re-sign Pau then SA can go over cap to re-sign or match Simmons -- all while keeping the pick, Anderson, Forbes/Bertans. Spurs can re-sign Manu and Lee to the minimum after all dust settles too.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This basically means the Spurs need to trade LMA to do something meaningful this postseason. And I believe the Warriors are fucked

[GSH]

Wow - that's lower than all the "lowered estimates" I had seen.

[mo7888]

This basically means the Spurs need to trade LMA to do something meaningful this postseason. And I believe the Warriors are fucked

That's the main point in this new number...gow does it affect gs?

[boutons_deux]

Yeah.. TV has been squeezed. Espn fired ppl.
The resting players scandal in nationally televised games (and we are talking young players not guys in the senior division).

"cord cutting" is hurting all the cable media corps, and will continue. I get promo paper mail every week from Spectrum

[Dex]

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That's what happens when you have two teams nearly sweeping the playoffs. Warriors/Cavs really are breaking the NBA.

[LkrFan]

Maybe this is why the Spurs are shopping LMA - even though hes your 2nd best player?

[LkrFan]

This basically means the Spurs need to trade LMA to do something meaningful this postseason. And I believe the Warriors are fucked

How so? KD is taking less to re-sign Iggy and Livingston. They can go over the cap to re-sign Steph. The rest of the bench don't matter tbh.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This won't impact the Warriors at all. They're printing money out there right now for ownership, San Francisco's building them a new stadium to move across the bay (with lots of expensive luxury boxes for the tech sector there in the Bay Area).

Yeah, the lux tax is punitive, but that city and its companies will pay whatever they have to in order to be in the building for them as long as they're good.

[cd021]

Good news is that it'll hurt GS retaining their bench.

GSW has Livingston, Iggy, and Clark's bird rights, it doesn't really affect them.

[cjw]

GSW has Livingston, Iggy, and Clark's bird rights, it doesn't really affect them.

They don't have Durant's bird rights.

Their situation:
$17.8 Thompson
$16.4 Green
$ 1.5 Looney
$ 1.3 Jones
$ 1.3 McCaw
$ 0.9 Dead cap
$39.3 Guaranteed (can be $37.5 or so if Jones and Looney are moved for no salary and minimum charges; they're not moving McCaw)

$31.8 Durant cap hold
$18.2 Curry cap hold
$89.3 With those two holds

They then need four roster holds at $500k apiece and have $91.3 guaranteed. Or $89.5 if losing Looney and Jones. They can fit Livingston's cap hold ($11.0 minus $500k) but not Iggy's. So this would require:

(1) Staying over cap and signing Iggy first and then being under cap with a lower deal of his and then Livingston's - basically enough to sign Durant under the cap.

(2) Pay Durant and Livingston and Iggy come back for next to nothing

(3) Durant takes significantly less

The Curry deal procedurally will be last to get signed.


I see how they can keep one of the two but not both. Iggy will get paid. And much rather them keep Livingston.

On edit - I forgot Ian Clark's $1.4 million cap hold. He's in a similar situation to Simmons so they can go over cap to sign him, but that's another $900k they won't have to maneuver.

[Chinook]

The Warriors don't need to worry about Durant. They have his NB rights. The smaller the cap is, the closer Durant's max is to the NB raise. They'll have no problem keeping everyone together unless West, McGee and Zaza want raises.

[cjw]

The Warriors don't need to worry about Durant. They have his NB rights. The smaller the cap is, the closer Durant's max is to the NB raise. They'll have no problem keeping everyone together unless West, McGee and Zaza want raises.

So a two year deal and then full bird rights after? He really will be giving up some real money - more than CP3 would give up to sign with the Spurs.

They'll basically stay over the cap then and none of it matters. But could get really expensive.

I'm all for teams driving up Livingston and Iggy as much as possible. And give Clark a stupid offer sheet

[picnroll]

877732532237873153

That's what happens when you have two teams nearly sweeping the playoffs. Warriors/Cavs really are breaking the NBA.

Good maybe the owners and maybe even the players will realize creating super teams and thereby a non-competitive league isn't in anybody's interest except maybe a beta like Durant.

[Chinook]

So a two year deal and then full bird rights after? He really will be giving up some real money - more than CP3 would give up to sign with the Spurs.

They'll basically stay over the cap then and none of it matters. But could get really expensive.

I'm all for teams driving up Livingston and Iggy as much as possible. And give Clark a stupid offer sheet

The Warriors can give KD a deal starting at $31.8 Million this summer. The smaller cap is driving his max down. He's not giving up all that much. Another one-year deal would do it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Again, people hoping to see GSW have everyone walk are going to be sorely disappointed. As long as they keep their core rotation together, they can fill out the roster with minimum vets who want to ring chase.

If they lose any of the core seven guys (starters + Iggy and Livingston), it will be because some other team makes one of the unrestricted guys a ridiculous offer (like the reports earlier this week of teams wanting to give Andre $20 million a year). Not because the cap went down two million.

[objective]

Plus, if you actually do the math, Spurs won't have enough space for a max contract if they renounce Manu, Mills, Pau, DD, Lee. Trade DG. Then draft/stash pick, trade Kyle, trade Forbes. Still not enough. They have to trade another 10+ mil/year guy ( TP or LA). Trade LA and you get to keep pick, keep Kyle, keep Forbes/Bertans and have close to 50 mil in space.

With Pau declining option.

SA renouncing Manu, Pau, Mills, Dedmon, Lee.

SA trading DG.

Simmons cap hold at 1.67 mil

Spurs should be at 29,376,682 in space.

After that SA has options: If SA trades Kyle -- that's just creates 1.5 mil in space. Bringing us at 30.8 million. Then draft and stash the 29th -- that adds another 600K in space, which brings us at 31.4 million in space. Trading Forbes -- only saves around 100K (same w/ Bertans), which brings us at 31.5 million in space ( still not enough for CP3 Max).

However if SA trades LA and gets back a top 20 pick ( 2-4 million cap hold) that should create another 17-19 million in space, bringing SA to 46-49 million in space. Enough to sign CP3, re-sign Pau then SA can go over cap to re-sign or match Simmons -- all while keeping the pick, Anderson, Forbes/Bertans. Spurs can re-sign Manu and Lee to the minimum after all dust settles too.

I've done the math.

Waiving Forbes actually saves approx 497k, because his salary like all minimums got bumped with the new CBA.

2017 stash saves 589k, Milutinov continual stash saves 650k

Doing all three gets them an extra 1.736 or so of room.

I wouldn't put it past them. Giving Paul his absolute max I always thought a stretch, but if push came to shove, the compromise would be this:

LMA, Kawhi, Green, Murray, Bertans, Simmons QO, duncan stretch, LJC waive + 5 roster charge WITH a Parker stretch = 66.779 million, or 32.221 million in room

That could deliver a deal for 4/138.5

But it would have to be a Parker stretch and not a Green dump, because it's harder to execute a Green dump and take zero salary back, draft pick or whatever and still add value to the team. Giving Green away for a future pick only hurts the chances at a title, and Paul isn't giving up money to get worse title odds I would think.

The best thing would actually be a Parker dump with draft pick like 2018 1st attached.

People can insist that he's untouchable, and maybe he is, but the math is the math.

Parker salary dump = so much more room and the ability to keep Green.

They could keep LMA, Green, Simmons QO, 2017 first, Milutinov, plus roster charges and still start Paul at a number like 33.6 and a 4/144 deal.

Parker is the feces in the punch bowl.

Even LMA is better to keep than dump because Paul can make him better. Paul can't make Parker's legs 10 years younger. No point in tying up 50% of the cap in point guards when they'll only play one at a time.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Plus, if you actually do the math, Spurs won't have enough space for a max contract if they renounce Manu, Mills, Pau, DD, Lee. Trade DG. Then draft/stash pick, trade Kyle, trade Forbes. Still not enough. They have to trade another 10+ mil/year guy ( TP or LA). Trade LA and you get to keep pick, keep Kyle, keep Forbes/Bertans and have close to 50 mil in space.

With Pau declining option.

SA renouncing Manu, Pau, Mills, Dedmon, Lee.

SA trading DG.

Simmons cap hold at 1.67 mil

Spurs should be at 29,376,682 in space.

After that SA has options: If SA trades Kyle -- that's just creates 1.5 mil in space. Bringing us at 30.8 million. Then draft and stash the 29th -- that adds another 600K in space, which brings us at 31.4 million in space. Trading Forbes -- only saves around 100K (same w/ Bertans), which brings us at 31.5 million in space ( still not enough for CP3 Max).

However if SA trades LA and gets back a top 20 pick ( 2-4 million cap hold) that should create another 17-19 million in space, bringing SA to 46-49 million in space. Enough to sign CP3, re-sign Pau then SA can go over cap to re-sign or match Simmons -- all while keeping the pick, Anderson, Forbes/Bertans. Spurs can re-sign Manu and Lee to the minimum after all dust settles too.

They will if they trade LMA.

[SAGirl]

The lower the cap goes, the less it's worth trying to open a max slot. At this point, I'd just look for a PG to split the cap with Pau and call it a day. If you're serious about trading Danny and LMA, do it for value, not for cap. Fuck trying to move the Earth for Paul. You aren't going to be better than last year if you do what you have to to get a max contract -- especially if Pop is going to continue to be an idiot about Parker.
This answer n issue I had with the Cleveland rumors.

[therealtruth]

Good maybe the owners and maybe even the players will realize creating super teams and thereby a non-competitive league isn't in anybody's interest except maybe a beta like Durant.

Everybody hates super teams unless it's their team.