Stupid People like this are as big a danger to this country as any racist

[Trainwreck2100]

“I think as a country you have a right to free speech,” said Boston resident Beth Chandler, “but there’s a difference to me with hateful speech and free speech. And a lot of what the separatists are saying is hateful speech and there’s not a place for that in our country.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/thousands-march-boston-counter-protest-free-speech-rally-n794156

[Thread]

“but there’s a difference to me with hateful speech and free speech.

---


I'll just bet there is.

[midnightpulp]

“but there’s a difference to me with hateful speech and free speech.

---


I'll just bet there is.

In the other thread, you were okay with communist speech being taken down and marginalized.

[Thread]

In the other thread, you were okay with communist speech being taken down and marginalized.

& so?

[midnightpulp]

& so?

Communist speech offends you in the same manner as racist hate speech offends this girl. Two sides of the same coin, no?

[Thread]

Communist speech offends you in the same manner as racist hate speech offends this girl. Two sides of the same coin, no?

I can never win arguments with you, Midst. Leave me alone. I'm trying to enjoy my Saturday morning. + I'm gettin' my bell rung as soon as Girl rises & shines.

[midnightpulp]

I can never win arguments with you, Midst. Leave me alone. I'm trying to enjoy my Saturday morning. + I'm gettin' my bell rung as soon as Girl rises & shines.

No. I agree. Hard line commies should be marginalized, as their ideology also results in genocidal endgames. But marginalization shouldn't come via government, It should come via us socially shunning their idiocy.

[clambake]

who'd a thought boston was full of pussy neo-wankers.


wouldn't even show.

[Chris]

who'd a thought boston was full of pussy neo-wankers.


wouldn't even show.

Were you itching for a bit of the ol' ultraviolence again?

[Pavlov]

Were you itching for a bit of the ol' ultraviolence again?http://i2.wp.com/replygif.net/i/101.gif

[Chris]

http://i2.wp.com/replygif.net/i/101.gif

Wouldn't expect you to get a Kubrick reference. Sad!

[Pavlov]

Wouldn't expect you to get a Kubrick reference. Sad!I would expect you to misuse and mis-attribute the term.

You did not disappoint.

[boutons_deux]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/thousands-march-boston-counter-protest-free-speech-rally-n794156

where's the danger is that position?

free speech absolutism is not a civil policy, isn't you ignorant, hateful, dangerous motherfucker. :)

[SnakeBoy]

Defending the free speech rights of those you disdain used to be a liberal tenant.

[Thread]

Defending the free speech rights of those you disdain used to be a liberal tenant.

Yep, and used to drive me to distraction.

[DMC]

I said it some time ago - you don't protect the 2nd, you'll lose the 1st. Liberals think the 1st Amendment is sacred but their ilk on the fringe are ok with restricting that one as well, as long as they get their people into power.

Don't want to hear the bitching when you lose your right to free speech. On 2nd thought, you'll not be able to tell me.

[DarrinS]

Defending the free speech rights of those you disdain used to be a liberal tenant.

Bash the fash. Who's the fash? Everyone who disagrees with me.

[Trainwreck2100]

where's the danger is that position?

free speech absolutism is not a civil policy, isn't you ignorant, hateful, dangerous motherfucker. :)

:lol a claim you make based on absolutely nothing.

Those idiots have the right to say whatever they want, just like they have the right to assemble.

[midnightpulp]

Defending the free speech rights of those you disdain used to be a liberal tenant.

Still is. I don't see any reasonable liberals calling for the restrictions of the 1st amendment. In fact, slate (a liberal rag) disagreed with how tech companies reacted.

[AaronY]

Still is. I don't see any reasonable liberals calling for the restrictions of the 1st amendment. In fact, slate (a liberal rag) disagreed with how tech companies reacted.

How it works on both sides of the fence now is you find these irrelevant microcosms of really outrageous behavior and try to characterize the whole movement as being like that. Like today with the peaceful demonstrations in Boston if you're right wing you find the handful of people who acted retarded and ignore the other 99%.

[AaronY]

It's like a daily battle of largely irrelevant microcosms for the most part

[midnightpulp]

How it works on both sides of the fence now is you find these irrelevant microcosms of really outrageous behavior and try to characterize the whole movement as being like that. Like today with the peaceful demonstrations in Boston if you're right wing you find the handful of people who acted retarded and ignore the other 99%.

Indeed. Social media is the culpit here. You can make a situation look more relevant than it actually is.

[Trainwreck2100]

They have the right to freedom of speech. What they don't have, is the right to freedom of consequences from exercising that right The problem is while stupid weak scared fuckers like yourself cry about somehow people are infringing on your right to your own opinion, you're worthlessness derives from gaining those opinions by using lies to make up what you try to pass as fact.

I think it's fairly obvious, how scared you girls are of any and all things different. Quit ruining the country because you know you are a bitch

I'm a minority you dumbfuck, and not a "white minority" but an actual minority. I don't have a dog in this fight.

They have the right to freedom of speech. What they don't have, is the right to freedom of consequences from exercising that right
Where is that even mentioned in what i said

[Monostradamus]

I can never win arguments with you, Midst. Leave me alone. I'm trying to enjoy my Saturday morning. + I'm gettin' my bell rung as soon as Girl rises & shines.
He wiped the fuckin floor with your fuckin ass

[Monostradamus]

http://i66.tinypic.com/x51gkl.jpg

[Trainwreck2100]

you projected that they had the right to assemble. I actually agreed with you, you dumb fuck. But there are consequences in this world for actions

why, if you have no dog in the fight, are you defending people that hate you out of fear? Another self loathing poc. A true modern Republican Party wet dream. Jesus that's Worse as the racists hating you

Really, where have i defended their arguments? All i've defended is their right to say whatever they want. It has nothing to do with self loathing, i'm not afraid of white supremacists.

you projected that they had the right to assemble. I actually agreed with you, you dumb fuck

never said you didn't i only wrote 2 sentences.

[Thread]

He wiped the fuckin floor with your fuckin ass

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

[Quadzilla99]

92% of millennials favor free speech: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/05/01/poll-millennials-overwhelmingly-support-free-speech-though-protectionism-is-now-n2320713

[Pavlov]

40,000 counter-protesters

33 arrests

0.0825% rabid leftist urine rioters

0 car murders

/sadpepe

[pgardn]

Defending the free speech rights of those you disdain used to be a liberal tenant.

Dont worry Snake.
The ACLU is already in tune with the cause.
Im sure that makes you happy.

[pgardn]

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

Your repeat yourself constantly.

You repeat yourself.

[SnakeBoy]

Still is. I don't see any reasonable liberals calling for the restrictions of the 1st amendment. In fact, slate (a liberal rag) disagreed with how tech companies reacted.

The leader of your party

Pelosi Calls For Permit To Be Revoked For Rally Of Pro-Trump Prayer Group In San Francisco
https://jonathanturley.org/2017/08/16/pelosi-calls-for-permit-to-be-revoked-for-rally-of-pro-trump-prayer-group-in-san-francisco/

[Aztecfan03]

They have the right to freedom of speech. What they don't have, is the right to freedom of consequences from exercising that right

Only ask this because of what has happened the past week. Are you excusing violence?

[Aztecfan03]

Still is. I don't see any reasonable liberals calling for the restrictions of the 1st amendment. In fact, slate (a liberal rag) disagreed with how tech companies reacted.

most liberals must not be reasonable then.

[Quadzilla99]

most liberals must not be reasonable then.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/05/01/poll-millennials-overwhelmingly-support-free-speech-though-protectionism-is-now-n2320713

[midnightpulp]

The leader of your party

Pelosi Calls For Permit To Be Revoked For Rally Of Pro-Trump Prayer Group In San Francisco
https://jonathanturley.org/2017/08/16/pelosi-calls-for-permit-to-be-revoked-for-rally-of-pro-trump-prayer-group-in-san-francisco/

I'm not a (d) and Pelosi has never been reasonable.

[baseline bum]

http://i66.tinypic.com/x51gkl.jpg

:lol xkcd is awesome

[midnightpulp]

I'll engage in some whataboutism here.

Dear leader once suggested mosques be closed (violation of 1st amendment)

In June of last year, dear leader suggested Mosques be surveilled (violation of the 4th amendment).

[Aztecfan03]

Of course not. Are you excusing white supremacy?
nope, but them being racist isn't an excuse for the violence from the left. thats the main consequence right now.

[Chris]

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

lmemulatedao!!!

[Aztecfan03]

I'll engage in some whataboutism here.

Dear leader once suggested mosques be closed (violation of 1st amendment)

In June of last year, dear leader suggested Mosques be surveilled (violation of the 4th amendment).

Obama did that? Wow!!!

But seriously, Trump is an idiot.

[Chris]

/sadpepe

Libtards triggered by a cartoon frog :lol Top kek

[Aztecfan03]

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/05/01/poll-millennials-overwhelmingly-support-free-speech-though-protectionism-is-now-n2320713
They support there own free speech, but not those they disagree with.

[Pavlov]

Libtards triggered by a cartoon frog :lol Top kekChirs is extra sad. Has to fantasize about other people shooting antifa.

[AaronY]

92% of millennials favor free speech: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/05/01/poll-millennials-overwhelmingly-support-free-speech-though-protectionism-is-now-n2320713

See the comments beneath the article here are perfect here for what I was saying. People see this stat but instead of learning something they just stick to their prejudices re-inforced by videos of left wing extremists and antifa retards like they represent the majority of Democrats and you cant tell them any different. Same thing with liberals who insist every Trump voter is a fucking nazi.

[Chris]

Chirs is extra sad. Has to fantasize about other people shooting antifa.

Hitler did nothing wrong.

[Pavlov]

Hitler did nothing wrong.Sad Chris is trying to be edgy again.

[Chris]

Sad Chris is trying to be edgy again.

Is it Mueller time yet?

[Pavlov]

Is it Mueller time yet?The time Mueller is spending in your head rent free?

Yes.

[Chris]

The time Mueller is spending in your head rent free?

Yes.

Do you think Mueller has a big bush Pav?

[Pavlov]

Do you think Mueller has a big bush Pav?You're thinking about him right now.

Rent free.

[Spurtacular]

Fascists hate free speech.

[Spurtacular]

40,000 counter-protesters

33 arrests

0.0825% rabid leftist urine rioters

0 car murders

/sadpepe

So, 33 arrests is a victory for you?

[midnightpulp]

nope, but them being racist isn't an excuse for the violence from the left. thats the main consequence right now.

1. We don't know who was the instigator in the Charlottesville debacle.

2. Nazism isn't a point-of-view that you can sanitize down to a "difference of opinion." One problem is that we've become so desensitized to Nazism over the years through the countless movies, books, video games, and History channel retrospectives that it seems to have lost its ability to unnerve us. So instead of viewing it as the murderous ideology that it is, we kind of shrug our shoulders at it, hand-waving it away as "someone else's beliefs" that are as equally valid (under 1st amendment protection) as anything else.

Voltaire once said, "I may not agree with you what you say, but I'll defend to the death for your right to say it."

We have to ask ourselves, does Nazism deserve that defense? I would consider someone spouting Nazi ideology at me something of a pseudo-death threat, since his plan for me is extermination. Death threats are not protected by the 1st amendment.

That said, I would not be in favor of banning Nazi "speech." Not because I really care about a genuine Nazi's freedom of speech, but because I would want to protect those who use Nazism in a creative way (i.e. for artistic, satirical, or creative purposes). I don't buy into slippery slope fallacies, but a full ban on everything Nazi most likely wouldn't allow something like Monty Python's Mr. Hitler sketch.

My primary point here is you can't really be surprised when someone responds to Nazism with violence. It's very much a "psychological" punch to the face (indeed, anything can be a psychological punch to the face, especially to an overly sensitive person) so I can't necessarily blame someone when they do punch a Nazi. Do I condone it? No. Just like I don't condone binge drinking, but I wouldn't blame you for binge drinking on the weekend after a stressful week at school or work. Nor do I think the Nazi puncher is the villain in that scenario. Nazism is an idea that triggers violence everywhere it goes, thus I consider the Nazi the primary instigator(s) in situations like Charlottesville.

"So, we're just gonna start punching people whose ideas we disagree with?"

Slippery Slope fallacy. And again, Nazism isn't an innocuous point-of-view that can EVER be maturely discussed in the marketplace of ideas. It's devoid of all intellectual merit.

[midnightpulp]

So, 33 arrests is a victory for you?

It's invariable when that many people get together, especially during a politically charged event, you'll have a few knuckleheads. Yes, 33 arrests for only disorderly conduct is a "victory." No injuries, deaths, fires set, property damage, etc.

[Thread]

-BOTH SIDES- remains.

[Spurtacular]

It's invariable when that many people get together, especially during a politically charged event, you'll have a few knuckleheads. Yes, 33 arrests for only disorderly conduct is a "victory." No injuries, deaths, fires set, property damage, etc.

That's a pretty low bar you have. Arrests typically mean that people were f'ing with persons or property in ways that can often lead to death.

[Thread]

-BOTH SIDES- remains.

[Spurtacular]

1. We don't know who was the instigator in the Charlottesville debacle.

We do know who the enablers were. The police didn't follow the law and created a violence corridor. Has anyone been fired yet? Has anyone even been suspended?

[Thread]

We do know who the enablers were. The police didn't follow the law and created a violence corridor. Has anyone been fired yet? Has anyone even been suspended?

...No. & that will not happen here. & Trump failed to cite police (motive) & incompetence here.

But, he ain't gonna touch it. Cops goodPERIOD He can only praise them.:rolleyes

[Quadzilla99]

So, 33 arrests is a victory for you?

There were 40,000 people there you impossible moron

[Pavlov]

So, 33 arrests is a victory for you?It's a statistic. Is 33 arrests a victory for you? I guess you were hoping for antifa to murder an innocent woman to take some heat off your side. Given the circumstances and the total crowd size, I'm glad you sad pepes can only try to gin up fear about a few piss grenadiers.

[vy65]

http://i66.tinypic.com/x51gkl.jpg

This came up in the context of the Google Diversity Memo, but its applicable here too:


Some are tempted to call this a "First Amendment" issue. Let me be clear, it is not. The government is not involved, and thus this is not a violation of anyone's constitutional rights. But, one of the pillars that holds up our First Amendment is the "marketplace of ideas" theory -- that ideas should compete in the free market, and that through wide-open and robust debate, we will advance.

In ideology-driven authoritarian regimes, locking someone out of the labor market because you don't like their ideas is a common approach. Behind the Iron Curtain, for instance, if you weren't sufficiently Marxist, it didn't necessarily mean a trip to the gulag. You would just find that you were out of a job. Of course, the blowback against this Google employee is not top-down authoritarianism or orthodoxy enforced by the state. No, in America when you violate the PC code of conduct, a small cadre of people will dust off the outrage machine -- and millions of people will fuel it.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/07/opinions/google-employee-manifesto-against-diversity-opinion-randazza/index.html

There is no question that being boycotted, or having your show canceled, or being banned from the internet is not a First Amendment violation because the government ostensibly isn't involved. But the idea that doing those things to someone who you disagree with squares with the values enshrined in the First Amendment is beyond stupid. Those values are open/free debate where stupid ideas like Nazism are discredited -- not censored.

[Monostradamus]

This came up in the context of the Google Diversity Memo, but its applicable here too:



http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/07/opinions/google-employee-manifesto-against-diversity-opinion-randazza/index.html

There is no question that being boycotted, or having your show canceled, or being banned from the internet is not a First Amendment violation because the government ostensibly isn't involved. But the idea that doing those things to someone who you disagree with squares with the values enshrined in the First Amendment is beyond stupid. Those values are open/free debate where stupid ideas like Nazism are discredited -- not censored.
If someone keeps yelling a stupid opinion and drowns out healthy discussion, you tell him to shut the fuck up.

[Spurtacular]

There were 40,000 people there you impossible moron

So, 40,000 people can't peaceably assemble?

[Spurtacular]

It's a statistic. Is 33 arrests a victory for you? I guess you were hoping for antifa to murder an innocent woman to take some heat off your side. Given the circumstances and the total crowd size, I'm glad you sad pepes can only try to gin up fear about a few piss grenadiers.

It's a statement of how little you expect in the way of civility from people whom you have sympathy for and apparently side with.

[AaronY]

So, 40,000 people can't peaceably assemble?

39,967 of them did you inbred mongoloid.

[Spurtacular]

39,967 of them did you inbred mongoloid.

No. There were plenty who engaged in violence who weren't arrested.

[boutons_deux]

This is a nuanced treatment of the complexities around "free" speech, so all y'all simple-minded KKK/Nazis should skip it

https://medium.com/@juliaserano/free-speech-and-the-paradox-of-tolerance-e0547aefe538

[Thread]

This is a nuanced treatment of the complexities around "free" speech, so all y'all simple-minded KKK/Nazis should skip it

https://medium.com/@juliaserano/free-speech-and-the-paradox-of-tolerance-e0547aefe538

I'll just bet it is.

[vy65]

This is a nuanced treatment of the complexities around "free" speech, so all y'all simple-minded KKK/Nazis should skip it

https://medium.com/@juliaserano/free-speech-and-the-paradox-of-tolerance-e0547aefe538


I grew up during the 1970s and ’80s, during a time when transgender people were extremely stigmatized and not tolerated by society at large. As a child, I saw how gender-variant people were openly and relentlessly mocked, so I decided not to tell anyone about what I was experiencing. As a young adult, I continued to remain quiet about my identity. Colloquially, we call this being “in the closet,” but that’s just a fancy way of saying “hiding from hate speech and harassment.” Of course, I technically had free speech, but that doesn’t count for much if speaking your mind is likely to result in you being bombarded with epithets, losing your job, being ostracized by your community, and possibly other forms of retribution. When I attended my first transgender support group in the early ’90s, we held our meetings in a secret location because, despite our First Amendment right to peaceably assemble, it was simply not safe for us to meet in public or be discovered by others.

Lol nuanced. This tranny is critiquing what's being done to the nazis. Politics and bedfellows and whatnot

[baseline bum]

-BOTH SIDES- remains.

How about that time -BOTH SIDES- took down the World Trade Center?

[Quadzilla99]

No. There were plenty who engaged in violence who weren't arrested.
Like less than 1% dumbass

[Spurtacular]

Like less than 1% dumbass

If you actually believe there were actually 40,000 counter protesters crowding that small area. At any rate, it's still pathetic that you think the numbers are something to be proud of.

[Spurtacular]

How about that time -BOTH SIDES- took down the World Trade Center?

You should study 9/11. If you think it was just a score of muslim terrorists then you're in the dark.

[baseline bum]

You should study 9/11. If you think it was just a score of muslim terrorists then you're in the dark.

It was also Bush?

[Spurtacular]

It was also Bush?

Look at how much power/money the govt. and their benefactors got from 9/11. Look at the various evidence that we've been given false narratives. You really believe that 9/11 was just about a small terrorist organization pulling the wool over our eyes?

[baseline bum]

Look at how much power/money the govt. and their benefactors got from 9/11. Look at the various evidence that we've been given false narratives. You really believe that 9/11 was just about a small terrorist organization pulling the wool over our eyes?

So Bush did 9/11?

[Spurtacular]

So Bush did 9/11?

Why is it so important that I say Bush did it?

[baseline bum]

Why is it so important that I say Bush did it?

Most Truthers claim Bush + Cheney were the ones who took down the towers. So what happened on 9/11?

[Spurtacular]

Most Truthers claim Bush + Cheney were the ones who took down the towers. So what happened on 9/11?

I think it's obvious that there were some high ranking players in on it. I think that Bush/Cheney were in on it or to what degree they were involved or not involved is distracting of that reality. Personally, I think Cheney/Bush are very shady characters. Bush is charismatic and people don't tend to want to doubt someone like that. Well, OJ is very charismatic, and look at what he did.

[baseline bum]

I think it's obvious that there were some high ranking players in on it. I think that Bush/Cheney were in on it or to what degree they were involved or not involved is distracting of that reality. Personally, I think Cheney/Bush are very shady characters. Bush is charismatic and people don't tend to want to doubt someone like that. Well, OJ is very charismatic, and look at what he did.

So Bush is charismatic is what happened on 9/11?

[Spurtacular]

So Bush is charismatic is what happened on 9/11?

What? I'm saying that he's generally likeable and in a high position and people don't tend to want to doubt a person like that.

[baseline bum]

What? I'm saying that he's generally likeable and in a high position and people don't tend to want to doubt a person like that.

So you say Bush/Cheney were in on it. You should expand there.

[Spurtacular]

So you say Bush/Cheney were in on it. You should expand there.

I already said that I don't think that me speculating on it lends itself to the obvious reality that there were many in on 9/11. Have you at least spent time studying this, or do you just buy what you're told?

[baseline bum]

I already said that I don't think that me speculating on it lends itself to the obvious reality that there were many in on 9/11. Have you at least spent time studying this, or do you just buy what you're told?

Why can't you just say what happened?

[Quadzilla99]

Why can't you just say what happened?

2deep4u

[Spurtacular]

Why can't you just say what happened?

Cos I'm not an arrogant prick that pretends he knows all the answers. Have you studied this in any meaningful way?

[baseline bum]

Cos I'm not an arrogant prick that pretends he knows all the answers. Have you studied this in any meaningful way?

The idea that Bush and Cheney were in on 9/11 is the stupidest thing ever said on this forum, even worse than you were ragging on the Spurs for cutting Jimmer.

[baseline bum]

Like Chomsky said, the idea of Bush being involved in 9/11 is retarded because it could never be kept secret and would have been the death of the Republican party. I don't know what's so outlandish about Islamic terrorists coming from Saudi Arabia, taking classes in flight school, and hijacking planes and flying them into buildings.

[Spurtacular]

The idea that Bush and Cheney were in on 9/11 is the stupidest thing ever said on this forum, even worse than you were ragging on the Spurs for cutting Jimmer.

I figured that's why you kept asking the question. Why can't you answer whether you've studied this in any meaningful way? Is it just too hard for you to believe that people in high ranking positions would fuck people over? It happens every day, dude.

[baseline bum]

I figured that's why you kept asking the question. Why can't you answer whether you've studied this in any meaningful way? Is it just too hard for you to believe that people in high ranking positions would fuck people over? It happens every day, dude.

I'm trying to study it by asking you what happened on 9/11 and you keep stonewalling.

[boutons_deux]

The idea that Bush and Cheney were in on 9/11 is the stupidest thing ever said on this forum, even worse than you were ragging on the Spurs for cutting Jimmer.

I think it's possible that Machiavellian dickhead was passively complicit in 9/11 by not pushing dubya and law-enforcement/natsec people much harder to handle the "red flags of summer".

I'm SURE dickhead was thrilled, "not let a crisis go to waste", when OBL handed dickhead a pretext to invade Iraq for oil, aka, his "national energy plan"

And then dickhead pushed dozens of lies about Saddam to justify dickhead's geopolitical war crime.

[Spurtacular]

I'm trying to study it by asking you what happened on 9/11 and you keep stonewalling.

You're trying to mock and ridicule. So, you haven't studied it is what you're saying?

[baseline bum]

I think it's possible that Machiavellian Cheney was passively complicit in the 9/11 by not pushing dubya and law-enforcment/natsec people much harder to handle the "red flags of summer".

I'm SURE dickhead was thrilled, "not let a crisis go to wasite", when OBL handed dickhead a pretext to invade Iraq for oil.

And then dickhead pushed dozens of lies about Saddam to justify dickhead's geopolitical war crime.

Being shitty at running the nation isn't being complicit.

[baseline bum]

You're trying to mock and ridicule. So, you haven't studied it is what you're saying?

I'm saying tell me what happened.

[Spurtacular]

I think it's possible that Machiavellian Cheney was passively complicit in the 9/11 by not pushing dubya and law-enforcment/natsec people much harder to handle the "red flags of summer".

I'm SURE dickhead was thrilled, "not let a crisis go to wasite", when OBL handed dickhead a pretext to invade Iraq for oil.

And then dickhead pushed dozens of lies about Saddam to justify dickhead's geopolitical war crime.

And OBL was a US asset who Bush went out of his way to not have killed. Obama only killed him because he needed the re-election boost.

[Spurtacular]

I'm saying tell me what happened.

Is there a reason why you can't answer such a simple question?

[Monostradamus]

:lmao the only person to have a worse month than Trump is Spurtacular. That dude has been getting severely dicked on lately.

[baseline bum]

Is there a reason why you can't answer such a simple question?

Yes. Because I asked you what happened on 9/11 first.

[Spurtacular]

Yes. Because I asked you what happened on 9/11 first.

So, you can't even say whether you are an uninformed moron or not before I engage you in this?

[baseline bum]

So, you can't even say whether you are an uninformed moron or not before I engage you in this?

So you're too embarrassed to tell what you think happened on 9/11. I already did.

[Spurtacular]

So you're too embarrassed to tell what you think happened on 9/11. I already did.

Not embarrassed at all. I wanted to see if this is a topic you take seriously before expending the energy. I got my answer.

[baseline bum]

Not embarrassed at all. I wanted to see if this is a topic you take seriously before expending the energy. I got my answer.

So you're too embarrassed to tell what you think happened on 9/11. I already did.

[Spurtacular]

So you're too embarrassed to tell what you think happened on 9/11. I already did.

You're too embarrassed to admit what you've studied, and yet you're ever ready to mock. You're not coming off in a good light, dude.

[baseline bum]

You're too embarrassed to admit what you've studied, and yet you're ever ready to mock. You're not coming off in a good light, dude.

LOL truther retards

[Spurtacular]

LOL truther retards

A guy who apparently doesn't study matters is being derisive. Do you not see the irony, or are you too stupid?

[baseline bum]

A guy who apparently doesn't study matters is being derisive. Do you not see the irony, or are you too stupid?

LOL so knowledgeable about what happened on 9/11 yet won't say what happened on 9/11.

[Spurtacular]

LOL so knowledgeable about what happened on 9/11 yet won't say what happened on 9/11.

I think there are people who are more learned on the subject than me. But I at least am willing to admit that I've studied the issue. You cannot admit that and yet you are willing to ridicule me on the matter. Are you really surprised that I'd not be eager to engage a close-minded person? And in this case, I'll say that disappoints me because I thought you held yourself to a higher standard than that.

[Spurminator]

Like less than 1% dumbass

I have to think the people who are willing to condemn an entire group of 40k over the disorderly actions of 33 people have never been to a sporting event in their lives.

[Spurtacular]

I have to think the people who are willing to condemn an entire group of 40k over the disorderly actions of 33 people have never been to a sporting event in their lives.

Yea, the sporting events with low IQ fans. And that's sort of the point.

[baseline bum]

I think there are people who are more learned on the subject than me. But I at least am willing to admit that I've studied the issue. You cannot admit that and yet you are willing to ridicule me on the matter. Are you really surprised that I'd not be eager to engage a close-minded person? And in this case, I'll say that disappoints me because I thought you held yourself to a higher standard than that.

But this is a forum and you could still tell learned people who studied 9/11 what happened on 9/11.

[Spurtacular]

But this is a forum and you could still tell learned people who studied 9/11 what happened on 9/11.

Serious question: Is English your second language?

Truth is I would have loved a serious discussion on it; I deduced I was the only one.

[Spurtacular]

...

Also, I suspect the 40K number is bull shit. Not at all seeing those types of numbers in any footage I've seen.

[baseline bum]

Serious question: Is English your second language?

Truth is I would have loved a serious discussion on it; I deduced I was the only one.

So no one here is learned on 9/11 other than you? Did you minor in 9/11 studies?

[Spurtacular]

So no one here is learned on 9/11 other than you? Did you minor in 9/11 studies?

Damn, I never thought you might be chump 'til now. Interesting.

[Spurminator]

Yea, the sporting events with low IQ fans. And that's sort of the point.

At least we can do more than 6k without killing someone.

[Spurtacular]

So no one here is learned on 9/11 other than you? Did you minor in 9/11 studies?

I said I've studied it some. I've said that I'm not as learned as some. How does that equate to me saying I'm the only one learned on 9/11, chump? Man, you can't even go away from your dumbass restates when you switch screen names.

"Did you minor in 9/11 studies?" :lmao And even the same kind of bad joke, too. No wonder I haven't been seeing Pavlov today.

[Spurtacular]

At least we can do more than 6k without killing someone.

Well, the murder rate in liberal hubs is high; so, I don't know what you're bragging about.

[Clipper Nation]

You should study 9/11. If you think it was just a score of muslim terrorists then you're in the dark.
If you actually buy the conspiracy theories about it, you don't understand basic physics.

[Spurtacular]

If you actually buy the conspiracy theories about it, you don't understand basic physics.

Tell us about the basic physics.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao the only person to have a worse month than Trump is Spurtacular. That dude has been getting severely dicked on lately.
I can't tell who's embarrassed themselves more recently: him or Chris.

[Spurtacular]

^^^

You gonna do your cute 'lil hit n' run; or are you gonna school us on basic physics? I'm dying to know.

[Chris]

If someone keeps yelling a stupid opinion and drowns out healthy discussion, you tell him to shut the fuck up.

Yeah because fuck free speech! Lets smash some fash!

[Chris]

"Get your hate speech outta this campus!"

[Clipper Nation]

Tell us about the basic physics.
Here's an in-depth explanation written by an actual physicist:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2006/11/28/the-physics-of-9-11/

[Chris]

I can't tell who's embarrassed themselves more recently: him or Chris.

:cry Charlottsville isn't Charlotte :cry :cry Soros doesn't exist :cry :cry I'm a good goy :cry

[Spurtacular]

Here's an in-depth explanation written by an actual physicist:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2006/11/28/the-physics-of-9-11/

How about some bullet points. Or is this just some bull shit you punch up?

[Clipper Nation]

How about some bullet points. Or is this just some bull shit you punch up?
If you're not willing to read an article that explains why your conspiratard theories are wrong, it's certainly not worth the time for me to spoonfeed you the same information.

[baseline bum]

How about some bullet points. Or is this just some bull shit you punch up?

You want CN to tutor you in physics when you can't even say what you think happened on 9/11?

[Spurtacular]

If you're not willing to read an article that explains why your conspiratard theories are wrong, it's certainly not worth the time for me to spoonfeed you the same information.

I looked at it. It was crap. But if you can't even say points, then it appears you're the one that's been spoonfed.

[Clipper Nation]

I looked at it. It was crap. But if you can't even say points, then it appears you're the one that's been spoonfed.
:lmao Yeah, I'm sure you know more about the subject than a professional physicist and engineer does.

If you're such an expert, why are you so afraid to say what you think really happened on 9/11?

[Spurtacular]

:lmao Yeah, I'm sure you know more about the subject than a professional physicist and engineer does.

If you're such an expert, why are you so afraid to say what you think really happened on 9/11?

And what of the "professional" scientists who have said that it's not possible for the steel to melt and collapse like that? Why do you play such lame cards, dude. Surely, you know of this. Honestly though, that was a piss-poor article. I wouldn't have bothered to list bullet points for it either.

[Clipper Nation]

And what of the "professional" scientists who have said that it's not possible for the steel to melt and collapse like that? Why do you play such lame cards, dude. Surely, you know of this. Honestly though, that was a piss-poor article. I wouldn't have bothered to list bullet points for it either.
:lol Extremely detailed explanation by a physicist vs. "durr, it's piss-poor because I said so!"

I rest my case.

[Pavlov]

OK, I "studied" 9/11 more than any layman not being paid to should. I will say categorically that Al Qaeda did this with no involvement from the US government. I will leave open the possibility of individual members of mideast governments being involved, and that the CIA might have known more about some things than they ever let on -- but that's it. I was so anti-Iraq war I wanted to believe the absolute worst about Bush and Cheney, but I found trutherism to be so unbelievably stupid and dishonest I ended up pretty hardcore in the opposite camp. Many here can attest to that.

bum is asking the question that seems to make every conspiracy theorist shit his pants: "What do you think really happened?" It's so simple but so devastating to truthers in particular because they're the most smug of the conspiracy theorists. I still can't believe how any truther could honestly go about his normal life while believing his government killed all those people and kneecapped the economy just for a chance to delay people at airports and start a war most Americans would've supported anyway.

And as someone who spent way too much time on this, I will say that you don't know shit about any of this without reading The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright and Perfect Soldiers by Terry McDermott. Those books alone will show you these motherfuckers didn't need any help from anyone, let alone the US gubmit.

[/rant]

[Pavlov]

And what of the "professional" scientists who have said that it's not possible for the steel to melt and collapse like that?The structural steel didn't have to melt to cause that kind of collapse, but I like that you put "professional" in quotes.

If Random Guy sees this, he's gonna bump the 9/11 thread.

[Spurtacular]

The structural steel didn't have to melt to cause that kind of collapse, but I like that you put "professional" in quotes.

If Random Guy sees this, he's gonna bump the 9/11 thread.

Well, the people who say 9/11 was on the level are the ones saying it did.

[Spurtacular]

OK, I "studied" 9/11 more than any layman not being paid to should. I will say categorically that Al Qaeda did this with no involvement from the US government. I will leave open the possibility of individual members of mideast governments being involved, and that the CIA might have known more about some things than they ever let on -- but that's it. I was so anti-Iraq war I wanted to believe the absolute worst about Bush and Cheney, but I found trutherism to be so unbelievably stupid and dishonest I ended up pretty hardcore in the opposite camp. Many here can attest to that.

bum is asking the question that seems to make every conspiracy theorist shit his pants: "What do you think really happened?" It's so simple but so devastating to truthers in particular because they're the most smug of the conspiracy theorists. I still can't believe how any truther could honestly go about his normal life while believing his government killed all those people and kneecapped the economy just for a chance to delay people at airports and start a war most Americans would've supported anyway.

And as someone who spent way too much time on this, I will say that you don't know shit about any of this without reading The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright and Perfect Soldiers by Terry McDermott. Those books alone will show you these motherfuckers didn't need any help from anyone, let alone the US gubmit.

[/rant]

Rant? More like a gov. press release; said a whole lot of nothing.

[Spurtacular]

:lol Extremely detailed explanation by a physicist vs. "durr, it's piss-poor because I said so!"

I rest my case.

Oh, saying the towers collapsing could happen cos some plastics melted in elevator shafts is top notch science. :lmao

[Pavlov]

Well, the people who say 9/11 was on the level are the ones saying it did.No, they aren't.

[Pavlov]

Rant? More like a gov. press release; said a whole lot of nothing.What do you think really happened on 9/11, Spurtacular?

[Spurtacular]

What do you think really happened on 9/11, Spurtacular?

In a nutshell, I think that the govt. players created a large enough catastrophic event to take away rights (empower themselves) and enrich themselves in perpetuity.

[Pavlov]

I'll add one more to the reading list: Against All Enemies by Richard Clarke. It's a bit self-serving as all memoirs are, but it delivers an extremely important message about how partisan politics and intragovernment squabbling continually fucked our handling of the terrorism issue and in many ways allowed 9/11 to come about. I kind of see the same thing happening with regards to foreign election interference; we're being partisan dicks about it at our peril.

[Spurtacular]

No, they aren't.

Buildings haven't collapsed like that as the result of fire before or since. And the only way it would even be believable is if it collapsed in a much shorter time. The theory is it was the jet fuel that made it so much hotter; but that would have ran out rather quickly, as is the nature of that substance in fire. There was no cauldron effect that could have made the fire that much hotter and hour and a half later.

[Pavlov]

In a nutshell, I think that the govt. players created a large enough catastrophic event to take away rights (empower themselves) and enrich themselves in perpetuity.Pretty empty nutshell.

Who are these players? You're gonna have to name names after your extensive research.

Also, have you read any of the books I recommended? Do you have any you recommend yourself? NOTE: Don't ever try to make me watch a YouTube with spooky synth music. It's not going to happen.

[Spurtacular]

I'll add one more to the reading list: Against All Enemies by Richard Clarke.

:lmao A book by the guy who was supposed to stop 9/11 is supposed to exonerate Bush?

[Pavlov]

Buildings haven't collapsed like that as the result of fire before or since.Buildinds haven't been hit by jet airliners at 500+ mph before or since.


And the only way it would even be believable is if it collapsed in a much shorter time. The theory is it was the jet fuel that made it so much hotter; but that would have ran out rather quickly, as is the nature of that substance in fire. There was no cauldron effect that could have made the fire that much hotter and hour and a half later.Cauldron effect? What's the cauldron supposed to be in the trade center towers?

[Pavlov]

:lmao A book by the guy who was supposed to stop 9/11 is supposed to exonerate Bush?Have you read it?

[Spurtacular]

Pretty empty nutshell.

Who are these players? You're gonna have to name names after your extensive research.

Also, have you read any of the books I recommended? Do you have any you recommend yourself? NOTE: Don't ever try to make me watch a YouTube with spooky synth music. It's not going to happen.

Yea, you'd rather focus on stuff that is pretty much akin to govt. approved reading.

[Pavlov]

Yea, you'd rather focus on stuff that is pretty much akin to govt. approved reading.OK, show me the books on your reading list.

[Spurtacular]

Have you read it?

I have not read his white wash report. What books have you read that are critical of the govt. 911 narrative?

[Chris]

Chump getting dumped :lol

[Pavlov]

I have notThank you for proving your ignorance.

[Spurtacular]

Buildinds haven't been hit by jet airliners at 500+ mph before or since.

Cauldron effect? What's the cauldron supposed to be in the trade center towers?

Yes, to create that heat that high and not have it escape to the open air. While steel in and of itself could do that, most of the building is not steel. That's why when fires run out, the building is gone except for the steel. Thus, the longer it burns, the less chance of collapse.

[Spurtacular]

Thank you for proving your ignorance.

If I start naming books on 9/11 that you have not read, will I be proving your "ignorance" as well?

[Clipper Nation]

Well, I'm convinced. When intellectual titans like Spurtacular and Chris agree on something, how can it be wrong?

[Pavlov]

Yes, to create that heat that high and not have it escape to the open air. While steel in and of itself could do that, most of the building is not steel. That's why when fires run out, the building is gone except for the steel. Thus, the longer it burns, the less chance of collapse.Wow. This is a new one. Is there a cauldron-effect book you could direct me to that explains this as it applies to 9/11 in some coherent way?

[Spurtacular]

Chump getting dumped :lol

[Pavlov]

If I start naming books on 9/11 that you have not read, will I be proving your "ignorance" as well?Could be. I find Clarke's book to be pretty critical for understanding the war on terror. You can't rely on any one source, that's why I led with three.

What are your top three 9/11 books?

[Spurtacular]

Wow. This is a new one. Is there a cauldron-effect book you could direct me to that explains this as it applies to 9/11 in some coherent way?

It's "basic physics" to use CN's term. You're the one trying to explain an anomaly with the typical stooge parroting of "jet fuel; it was the jet fuel, man!" :lmao Truth is that the building would have been lighter and cooler an hour and a half after impact than say five minutes after impact. If it was even possible for the jet fuel to do that (and it's almost certainly not), then that's when it would have occurred.

[Pavlov]

It's "basic physics" to use CN's term. You're the one trying to explain an anomaly with the typical stooge parroting of "jet fuel; it was the jet fuel, man!" :lmao Truth is that the building would have been lighter and cooler an hour and a half after impact than say five minutes after impact. If it was even possible for the jet fuel to do that (and it's almost certainly not), then that's when it would have occurred.I didn't say it was the jet fuel man. That spread the initial fire for sure.

[Spurtacular]

Could be. I find Clarke's book to be pretty critical for understanding the war on terror. You can't rely on any one source, that's why I led with three.

What are your top three 9/11 books?

Oh, I don't doubt that it's a big promo for fighting terror. That's what 9/11 was designed for. I'm sure it was far from critical from explaining the events of 9/11 though.

[Spurtacular]

I didn't say it was the jet fuel man. That spread the initial fire for sure.

So, what do you think made it so hot (in both buildings) that they collapsed in a manner that has not occurred in any other instances in history?

[Spurtacular]

What are your top three 9/11 books?

I don't have a list. I'll say that 'While America Slept,' which is far from a truther book is what put the seed of doubt into my mind for 9/11 and OKC. Joseph Farrell is a guy who has done a lot of strong work on the subject. The documentary by Massimo Cazzucco is pretty damning as well.

[Pavlov]

Oh, I don't doubt that it's a big promo for fighting terror.Not in the way you think.
That's what 9/11 was designed for. I'm sure it was far from critical from explaining the events of 9/11 though.What are your top three 9/11 books?

[Pavlov]

So, what do you think made it so hot (in both buildings) that they collapsed in a manner that has not occurred in any other instances in history?It didn't have to be hot enough to melt steel. That's the kind of dishonest straw man that truthers have been vomiting up for 16 years. That and your saying things like "cauldron effect" lead me to believe your "research" isn't all that extensive.

[Quadzilla99]

Well, I'm convinced. When intellectual titans like Spurtacular and Chris agree on something, how can it be wrong?

[Spurtacular]

It didn't have to be hot enough to melt steel. That's the kind of dishonest straw man that truthers have been vomiting up for 16 years. That and your saying things like "cauldron effect" lead me to believe your "research" isn't all that extensive.

Heat actually melting the steel is what statists have spouted time and time again. Why do you think that the building collapsed like a demo unlike any other in the history of fires if not that?

[Pavlov]

I don't have a list. I'll say that 'While America Slept,' which is far from a truther book is what put the seed of doubt into my mind for 9/11 and OKC.The one by Robert O'Brien? W's ambassador to the UN? :lol what were you saying about government approved reading?


Joseph Farrell is a guy who has done a lot of strong work on the subject.What work?


The documentary by Massimo Cazzucco is pretty damning as well.Oh, the Italian alternative cancer cure guy. Amazing how that and truthing dovetail so often.

[DarrinS]

Oh great. Another 9/11 consiratard argument.

[Pavlov]

Heat actually melting the steel is what statists have spouted time and time again.No, it isn't.

Seriously, if you don't have an understanding of even the basics of the generally accepted explanation for the process of destruction, you can't criticize it.

Do some more of that "research" you've been bragging about and get back to me.

[Spurtacular]

The one by Robert O'Brien? W's ambassador to the UN? :lol what were you saying about government approved reading?

What work?

Oh, the Italian alternative cancer cure guy. Amazing how that and truthing dovetails so often.

Said that wrong. It was 'Why America Slept' by Gerald Posner. He was not a gov guy or journalist. He was just a fairly modest Wall Street character IIRC.

J. Farrell has a lot of work out there. I'm not that into his alien shit; but I find he does a lot of connecting the dots that most don't on the political stuff. By his own admission, his work is mostly derivative; but he just compiles a lot of info.

M. Cazzucco could have made some other less valid documentaries for all I know. His work on 9/11 is superb. Honestly, you want us to accept a bunch of bull shit as fact when it's clearly not and there has to be alternative explanations.

[Pavlov]

Said that wrong. It was 'Why America Slept' by Gerald Posner. He was not a gov guy or journalist. He was just a fairly modest Wall Street character IIRC.Why America Slept relentlessly exposes the frequent mistakes made by law enforcement and government agencies, and demonstrates how the failures to prevent 9/11 were tragically not an exception but typical. In the end, it makes a damning case that the terrorist attacks could have been prevented.

That could easily be the blurb for Against All Enemies. Posner shit all over JFK conspiritards earlier, so I'm sure his book isn't full of shit either.


J. Farrell has a lot of work out there. I'm not that into his alien shit; but I find he does a lot of connecting the dots that most don't on the political stuff. By his own admission, his work is mostly derivative; but he just compiles a lot of info.

M. Cazzucco could have made some other less valid documentaries for all I know. His work on 9/11 is superb. Honestly, you want us to accept a bunch of bull shit as fact when it's clearly not and there has to be alternative explanations.So alien guy and alternative cancer cure guy.

Hard pass on those two.

[Spurtacular]

No, it isn't.

Seriously, if you don't have an understanding of even the basics of the generally accepted explanation for the process of destruction, you can't criticize it.

Do some more of that "research" you've been bragging about and get back to me.

What caused the towers to collapse for the first and only time in history during a fire?

[Spurtacular]

Why America Slept relentlessly exposes the frequent mistakes made by law enforcement and government agencies, and demonstrates how the failures to prevent 9/11 were tragically not an exception but typical. In the end, it makes a damning case that the terrorist attacks could have been prevented.

That could easily be the blurb for Against All Enemies. Posner shit all over JFK conspiritards earlier, so I'm sure his book isn't full of shit either.

So alien guy and alternative cancer cure guy.

Hard pass on those two.

I didn't say I'm a Posner fan; I just noted that some of the things he brought up is what planted the seed of doubt. And the other guys do quality work; I could care less about your gimpy efforts to fallaciously attack them.

[DMC]

Indeed. Social media is the culpit here. You can make a situation look more relevant than it actually is.

Only to people to lazy to think for themselves. If one man can know the truth, two can, and so on.

[Pavlov]

What caused the towers to collapse for the first and only time in history during a fire?So you admit you don't know the very basics of the generally accepted explanation for the process of destruction.

How about you research that until you find it and get back to me. It should literally take you five minutes, tops.

[Mikeanaro]

What caused the towers to collapse for the first and only time in history during a fire?
Yeah, it makes no sense that was an implosion work, all that steel melting because of fire... thats crap.

[Pavlov]

I didn't say I'm a Posner fan; I just noted that some of the things he brought up is what planted the seed of doubt."In research for my latest book, I found Clarke to be one of the few heroes in the Bush White House. He was a career bureaucrat who served under four presidents and one of the first officials to recognize the seriousness of the threat posed by Al Qaeda and Islamic fundamentalists."

--Gerald Posner

:lmao


And the other guys do quality work; I could care less about your gimpy efforts to fallaciously attack them.It's not a fallacious attack to call one guy "alien guy" and the other "alternative cancer guy."

That's what those guys are.

[Spurtacular]

So you admit you don't know the very basics of the generally accepted explanation for the process of destruction.

How about you research that until you find it and get back to me. It should literally take you five minutes, tops.

I admit that your case to discredit 9/11 truth is based on trying to discredit me, personally. I said from the outset that I'm not a preeminent expert on it. Yet, you attack me rather than deal in the subject matter. I'm still waiting to hear how the towers fell according to you.

[Pavlov]

Yeah, it makes no sense that was an implosion work, all that steel melting because of fire... thats crap.:lol

[Spurtacular]

"In research for my latest book, I found Clarke to be one of the few heroes in the Bush White House. He was a career bureaucrat who served under four presidents and one of the first officials to recognize the seriousness of the threat posed by Al Qaeda and Islamic fundamentalists."

--Gerald Posner

:lmao

It's not a fallacious attack to call one guy "alien guy" and the other "alternative cancer guy."

That's what those guys are.

I told you that it's not a truther book. I don't know why that's funny. I never said that GP promoted some sort of 9/11 gospel that I subscribed to. Man, you're a really desperate fella.

[Spurtacular]

Yeah, it makes no sense that was an implosion work, all that steel melting because of fire... thats crap.

[Pavlov]

I admit that your case to discredit 9/11 truth is based on trying to discredit me, personally. I said from the outset that I'm not a preeminent expert on it. Yet, you attack me rather than deal in the subject matter. I'm still waiting to hear how the towers fell according to you.You were the one bragging about your research into the matter.

You have proved you don't even know the basics.

I told you you could find it in under five minutes because I just did the search and the reading for shits and grins.

You have done nothing.

[Pavlov]

I told you that it's not a truther book. I don't know why that's funny. I never said that GP promoted some sort of 9/11 gospel that I subscribed to. Man, you're a really desperate fella.I honestly don't know what you are trying to say now. I think it's funny because you're saying Posner's book is great but the book by the person he considers a hero couldn't possibly have any value.

You're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about and won't do a simple Google search to end his ignorance.

[Spurtacular]

You were the one bragging about your research into the matter.

You have proved you don't even know the basics.

I told you you could find it in under five minutes because I just did the search and the reading for shits and grins.

You have done nothing.

Why do you argue like the biggest butt on the planet? I was never "bragging". You interrogated me about sources, as is your typical style, and I cited some. In what fucking universe is that "bragging"? I know you're only a troll and all; but come on, you that inept at arguing?

[Pavlov]

Why do you argue like the biggest butt on the planet? I was never "bragging". You interrogated me about sources, as is your typical style, and I cited some. In what fucking universe is that "bragging"? I know you're only a troll and all; but come on, you that inept at arguing?This universe:
I think there are people who are more learned on the subject than me. But I at least am willing to admit that I've studied the issue. You cannot admit that and yet you are willing to ridicule me on the matter. Are you really surprised that I'd not be eager to engage a close-minded person? And in this case, I'll say that disappoints me because I thought you held yourself to a higher standard than that.

[Spurtacular]

I honestly don't know what you are trying to say now. I think it's funny because you're saying Posner's book is great but the book by the person he considers a hero couldn't possibly have any value.

You're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about and won't do a simple Google search to end his ignorance.

GP talked about the work of terrorists and the knowledge of govt. GP's theory in that book (and this is before trutherism really took off) is basically that the gov. is supremely inept. He makes a convincing case. And this is about the same gov that you apparently have a great trust in. I'm saying that this book in retrospect set a foundation for things I learned later. I don't think it was just a matter of being inept. I think that deep state operatives enabled 9/11 as a means of creating power for themselves. I can see why GP was not so cynical; it's human nature for most people to be trusting and not figure such deviance could occur. But Washington people are basically the worst that America has to offer. Their current riches show that they've capitalized in the wake of 9/11 too.

[Pavlov]

GP talked about the work of terrorists and the knowledge of govt. GP's theory in that book (and this is before trutherism really took off) is basically that the gov. is supremely inept. He makes a convincing case. And this is about the same gov that you apparently have a great trust in. I'm saying that this book in retrospect set a foundation for things I learned later. I don't think it was just a matter of being inept. I think that deep state operatives enabled 9/11 as a means of creating power for themselves. I can see why GP was not so cynical; it's human nature for most people to be trusting and not figure such deviance could occur. But Washington people are basically the worst that America has to offer. Their current riches show that they've capitalized in the wake of 9/11 too.Great.

So which Americans are you saying did 9/11?

[Spurtacular]

This universe:

That's not bragging; that's stating facts, jack ass.

BTW, love that you signed off of baseline bum to take me on as pavlov. :lmao

[Spurtacular]

Great.

So which Americans are you saying did 9/11?

Let's talk about Larry Silverstein for starters. I'm sure you can tell me all about him, because you're so knowledgeable about it all, according to you.

[Pavlov]

That's not bragging; that's stating facts, jack ass.You don't know the very basics of the "government story" and refuse to even try to know them.


BTW, love that you signed off of baseline bum to take me on as pavlov. :lmaoLove that you think we're the same person. :lmao

[Pavlov]

Let's talk about Larry Silverstein for starters. I'm sure you can tell me all about him, because you're so knowledgeable about it all, according to you.The guy who bought the complex and had to pay rent the entire time the whole place didn't exist and produced zero income?

What about him?

[Spurtacular]

You don't know the very basics of the "government story" and refuse to even try to know them.

Love that you think we're the same person. :lmao

Bro, focus. You were trying to say how I was "bragging." That never happened. And the govt. has buried facts that who gives a fuck what their official explanations are, honestly. Just one passive mention of building 7 in the WTC commission report. Give me a fucking break, dude. You'll excuse me if I don't hang on the words of those murdering bungholes.

...

Your identity is no secret. You gonna retire bb at 100 K posts too? Too far away to think of?

[Spurtacular]

The guy who bought the complex and had to pay rent the entire time the whole place didn't exist and produced zero income?

What about him?

What? He had to pay his bills like everyone else? Spare me the false narrative. :lmao And he certainly bought it right before and got a however many billions in insurance off of it. Yea, the LS that didn't show up to the WTC on 9/11 and the same LS that told his family members not to show up either. And LS is the guy who openly admitted that he told them to demo WTC building 7. That's fact. Naturally, he has avoided talking about that after realizing he implicated himself.

[Mikeanaro]

In USA people uses a lot of drywall to build things, here in Arg is not used a lot since most things are build using bricks and cement.

So when I had the chance to do a little acoustic treatment I used drywall and asked the guy who was doing the installation if it was water resistant because it looked so weak compared to bricks and he told me it can resist water for a month before collapsing, there is an abandoned house on the other block and there was a piece of drywall on the floor and it resisted for a whole month the rain and all the harsh weather before turning into crap.

So I find pretty hard to find such a monster steel based structure can collapse because of fire, and humanity has never seen something like that.

[Pavlov]

Bro, focus. You were trying to say how I was "bragging." That never happened.Of course you were. You were trying to big time BB saying you couldn't stoop to his level if he hadn't researched 9/11 like you have. Don't try to walk it back now.


And the govt. has buried facts that who gives a fuck what their official explanations are, honestly. Just one passive mention of building 7 in the WTC commission report. Give me a fucking break, dude. You'll excuse me if I don't hang on the words of those murdering bungholes.The Commission report is not an engineering document. There really is no reason for it to go in depth on a building in which no one died. If only there was a document about WTC 7, right?


Your identity is no secret. You gonna retire bb at 100 K posts too? Too far away to think of?:rollin

[Spurtacular]

In USA people uses a lot of drywall to build things, here in Arg is not used a lot since most things are build using bricks and cement.

So when I had the chance to do a little acoustic treatment I used drywall and asked the guy who was doing the installation if it was water resistant because it looked so weak compared to bricks and he told me it can resist water for a month before collapsing, there is an abandoned house on the other block and there was a piece of drywall on the floor and it resisted for a whole month the rain and all the harsh weather before turning into crap.

So I find pretty hard to find such a monster steel based structure can collapse because of fire, and humanity has never seen something like that.

Time and time again, the metal skeletons of skyscrapers have stood following fires. The falsers want us to believe that 9/11 broke the mold. The reality is those towers were demo'd. We know for a fact Building 7 was demo'd. Oh, but we're supposed to believe that the impact of the plane in another building made it so weak that it just fell. Yea, even the WTC Commission knew they couldn't pass off that bull shit; so, they just skipped it.

[Pavlov]

What? He had to pay his bills like everyone else? Spare me the false narrative. :lmao And he certainly bought it right before and got a however many billions in insurance off of it.How many billions did he net off the destruction of the entire complex?
Yea, the LS that didn't show up to the WTC on 9/11 and the same LS that told his family members not to show up either.link to his telling the family?
And LS is the guy who openly admitted that he told them to demo WTC building 7. That's fact. Naturally, he has avoided talking about that after realizing he implicated himself.Tell me -- how do firemen implode buildings on site?

This is what happens with truthers. They get all excited and say "wellwhataboutthisandwhataboutthat" and get really angry when asked simple questions about it.

But I'll bite -- walk me through Silverstein's plan and how he carried it out.

[Pavlov]

Time and time again, the metal skeletons of skyscrapers have stood following fires. The falsers want us to believe that 9/11 broke the mold. The reality is those towers were demo'd. We know for a fact Building 7 was demo'd. Oh, but we're supposed to believe that the impact of the plane in another building made it so weak that it just fell. Yea, even the WTC Commission knew they couldn't pass off that bull shit; so, they just skipped it.:lol "for a fact"

In your opinion, why and how was WTC7 intentionally demolished?

[Spurtacular]

Of course you were. You were trying to big time BB saying you couldn't stoop to his level if he hadn't researched 9/11 like you have. Don't try to walk it back now.

The Commission report is not an engineering document. There really is no reason for it to go in depth on a building in which no one died. If only there was a document about WTC 7, right?

:rollin

Bigtime BB! :lmao Dude, he was unwilling to say if he even studied the matter. Then you logged into this alt and not surprisingly tried to pass yourself off as 'the most knowledgeable layman on 9/11' :lmao You even cited a couple books to cement your BRAGGING. Now, that's "bragging," brah.

:lmao "The WTC report is not an engineering document". Come on now. It's supposed to be a comprehensive report. Pretending that building 7 didn't happen is beyond amateur hour. Not even going to add the LMAO to that. Cos it's the work of murderers, so fuck that.

[Spurtacular]

:lol "for a fact"

In your opinion, why and how was WTC7 intentionally demolished?

Better question, what kind of bull shit reason you going to present that it wasn't demo'd?

[Pavlov]

Bigtime BB! :lmao Dude, he was unwilling to say if he even studied the matter. Then you logged into this alt and not surprisingly tried to pass yourself off as 'the most knowledgeable layman on 9/11' :lmao You even cited a couple books to cement your BRAGGING. Now, that's "bragging," brah. Just giving some background. I do know that I am more knowledgeable about 9/11 than you because you can't even describe the government's theory on the mechanism of collapse.

You still can't.

Therefore, I am more knowledgeable about 9/11 than you.


:lmao "The WTC report is not an engineering document". Come on now. It's supposed to be a comprehensive report. Pretending that building 7 didn't happen is beyond amateur hour. Not even going to add the LMAO to that. Cos it's the work of murderers, so fuck that.So you would want the government to focus on WTC7 and how it fell?

[Mikeanaro]

Time and time again, the metal skeletons of skyscrapers have stood following fires. The falsers want us to believe that 9/11 broke the mold. The reality is those towers were demo'd. We know for a fact Building 7 was demo'd. Oh, but we're supposed to believe that the impact of the plane in another building made it so weak that it just fell. Yea, even the WTC Commission knew they couldn't pass off that bull shit; so, they just skipped it.
The Pentagon attack was weird too, there is an old guy dying that said he was part of the implosion work, this is the article

http://www.disclose.tv/news/we_blew_up_wtc_7_on_911_cia_agent_confesses_on_dea thbed/139692

Its was planned in 1997 he says and I find that credible in the sense that USA needed an enemy to get all the goodies from Saddam, just like if USA invades Venezuela they will free people from that dictator but at the same time they will keep the petroleoum.
Business.

[Pavlov]

Better question, what kind of bull shit reason you going to present that it wasn't demo'd?:lmao demanding to prove a negative again!

Truthers never fail to fail.

[Spurtacular]

How many billions did he net off the destruction of the entire complex?link to his telling the family?Tell me -- how do firemen implode buildings on site?

This is what happens with truthers. They get all excited and say "wellwhataboutthisandwhataboutthat" and get really angry when asked simple questions about it.

But I'll bite -- walk me through Silverstein's plan and how he carried it out.

His family members didn't show up. I could find it; but why bother with that tedium? You think that it's just a big coincidence (among the many others) that they all didn't show up to work that day?

Silverstein said that he ordered the demo of building 7; and he greatly financially benefited. These are irrefutable facts.

[Pavlov]

In USA people uses a lot of drywall to build things, here in Arg is not used a lot since most things are build using bricks and cement.

So when I had the chance to do a little acoustic treatment I used drywall and asked the guy who was doing the installation if it was water resistant because it looked so weak compared to bricks and he told me it can resist water for a month before collapsing, there is an abandoned house on the other block and there was a piece of drywall on the floor and it resisted for a whole month the rain and all the harsh weather before turning into crap.

So I find pretty hard to find such a monster steel based structure can collapse because of fire, and humanity has never seen something like that.Did humanity ever see jumbo jets fly into skyscrapers at 500+ mph?

[Spurtacular]

:lmao demanding to prove a negative again!

Truthers never fail to fail.

That negative shit is annoying. And why do you so egregiously misuse language? Demanding? I mean, are you just that gimpy of a troll? I respect good trolling. Gimpy trolling, no. So, let's make this not "negative" for your snowflake ass; how did building 7 fall?

[Spurtacular]

Did humanity ever see jumbo jets fly into skyscrapers at 500+ mph?

And yet, they didn't even knock the buildings out of alignment; so, I don't know what retarded point you're trying to make.

[Pavlov]

His family members didn't show up. I could find it; but why bother with that tedium?You sure as shit don't want to educate yourself about the collapse mechanism.



You think that it's just a big coincidence (among the many others) that they all didn't show up to work that day?Certainly could be.


Silverstein said that he ordered the demo of building 7How do firemen demo buildings onsite?


and he greatly financially benefited. These are irrefutable facts.How much did Silverstein net off his alleged scheme compared to what he would have made just renting out the WTC all those years? Give me a number since you've done the research.

[Pavlov]

That negative shit is annoying. And why do you so egregiously misuse language? Demanding? I mean, are you just that gimpy of a troll? I respect good trolling. Gimpy trolling, no. So, let's make this not "negative" for your snowflake ass; how did building 7 fall?If only the government did some sort of engineering study on WTC7 -- maybe I could tell you.


And yet, they didn't even knock the buildings out of alignment; so, I don't know what retarded point you're trying to make.Out of alignment? That's the only problem you think two jumbo jets flying into skyscrapers could potentially cause?

[Spurtacular]

The Pentagon attack was weird too, there is an old guy dying that said he was part of the implosion work, this is the article

http://www.disclose.tv/news/we_blew_up_wtc_7_on_911_cia_agent_confesses_on_dea thbed/139692

Its was planned in 1997 he says and I find that credible in the sense that USA needed an enemy to get all the goodies from Saddam, just like if USA invades Venezuela they will free people from that dictator but at the same time they will keep the petroleoum.
Business.

Yup, just some more poorly planned bull shit that chump thinks we're supposed to believe. They must not've been expecting video footage of that bomb going off and no fucking plane. :lmao And amateur hour once again....no plane debris and not even an indication that a plane had struck! But the govt. didn't come down on anyone? Of course 9/11 was an inside job.

[Pavlov]

Yup, just some more poorly planned bull shit that chump thinks we're supposed to believe. They must not've been expecting video footage of that bomb going off and no fucking plane. :lmao And amateur hour once again....no plane debris and not even an indication that a plane had struck! But the govt. didn't come down on anyone? Of course 9/11 was an inside job.What are you on about now?

You're seriously a no-planer too? :lmao

BTW, the story he linked was a debunked one about WTC7. You didn't even read that. :rollin

[Spurtacular]

You sure as shit don't want to educate yourself about the collapse mechanism.


Certainly could be.

How do firemen demo buildings onsite?

How much did Silverstein net off his alleged scheme compared to what he would have made just renting out the WTC all those years? Give me a number since you've done the research.

Certainly could be; but that'd be one of many convenient "circumstances."

Bro, don't be acting like I ever said I'm claiming expert status. Prove the negative as you'd say and show me Silverstein didn't financially benefit. We all know he did. I have no fucking plans of being a paralegal on this one. Well, I'll do it if that means you're gonna shut the fuck up or you pay me, maybe. But I don't give a fuck about placating you, when if you're some sort of authority as you claim, you should already know that he fucking made bank on that shit. Are you denying that he didn't?

And go ahead and tell us how building 7 fell; still waiting for that answer. Do you not have bull shit to offer on that?

[Spurtacular]

If only the government did some sort of engineering study on WTC7 -- maybe I could tell you.

Out of alignment? That's the only problem you think two jumbo jets flying into skyscrapers could potentially cause?

Mmm. So, you're saying the govt. covered shit up. But let's trust them, anyways, you say. :lmao

I didn't say it's the only problem, obviously. Again, another gimpy restate by you. You haven't made any sufficient arguments about how how the jets caused steel building to fall for the first time. Hell, much more powerful bombs in 93 at the base of the tower couldn't even do that; yet, you want us to just believe the unbelievable.

[Pavlov]

Certainly could be; but that'd be one of many convenient "circumstances."Or just something that happened. I wouldn't expect a guy like that to be there every day.


Bro, don't be acting like I ever said I'm claiming expert status. Prove the negative as you'd say and show me Silverstein didn't financially benefit.Not how it works. You made the claim. You have to back it up.


We all know he did.We do not.


I have no fucking plans of being a paralegal on this one. Well, I'll do it if that means you're gonna shut the fuck up or you pay me, maybe. But I don't give a fuck about placating you, when if you're some sort of authority as you claim, you should already know that he fucking made bank on that shit. Are you denying that he didn't?I am saying you haven't proved that he did compared to his just renting out the complex all those lost years.


And go ahead and tell us how building 7 fell; still waiting for that answer. Do you not have bull shit to offer on that?We can get to that. I'm still waiting for you to look up the government's theory on how 1 and 2 fell. Let's start there, shall we? I know it and you don't, so you should look it up real quick like.

I'll know you're serious about your research if you do.

[Spurtacular]

What are you on about now?

You're seriously a no-planer too? :lmao

BTW, the story he linked was a debunked one about WTC7. You didn't even read that. :rollin

1:23

Do you see a plane?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMZx7VYtaVk

[Pavlov]

Mmm. So, you're saying the govt. covered shit up. But let's trust them, anyways, you say. :lmaoI'm actually making fun of you. There is quite an extensive engineering report covering the collapse of WTC7. Anyone who has researched 9/11 should know that.


I didn't say it's the only problem, obviously. Again, another gimpy restate by you. You haven't made any sufficient arguments about how how the jets caused steel building to fall for the first time. Hell, much more powerful bombs in 93 at the base of the tower couldn't even do that; yet, you want us to just believe the unbelievable.You haven't looked up arguments about how the jets caused the steel buildings to fall.

In all your years of research, you still think they say jet fuel melted the steel.

:lol

[DarrinS]

:corn:

Meh, not really

[Pavlov]

1:23

Do you see a plane?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMZx7VYtaVkTell me what the frame rate is on that security camera and how fast Flight 77 was traveling. I'm sure you've come across that in all your years of research.

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmP2Vy8K0i0

[Pavlov]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmP2Vy8K0i0Does it have spooky synth music?

What are you saying hit the Pentagon?

[Spurtacular]

Tell me what the frame rate is on that security camera and how fast Flight 77 was traveling. I'm sure you've come across that in all your years of research.

Again, attacking me is not a defense. So, go ahead and tell me where that plane was. What's that, you can't?

See vid above for more.

[Spurtacular]

Does it have spooky synth music?

What are you saying hit the Pentagon?

A bomb, probably. Certainly wasn't a plane though. Or do you think the plane just incinerated?

[Pavlov]

Again, attacking me is not a defense. So, go ahead and tell me where that plane was. What's that, you can't?What is the frame rate of that camera and how fast was Flight 77 reported to be flying at that time?


See vid above for more.No.

[DarrinS]

Again, attacking me is not a defense. So, go ahead and tell me where that plane was. What's that, you can't?

See vid above for more.


It was aliens, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

I'm actually making fun of you. There is quite an extensive engineering report covering the collapse of WTC7. Anyone who has researched 9/11 should know that.

You haven't looked up arguments about how the jets caused the steel buildings to fall.

In all your years of research, you still think they say jet fuel melted the steel.

:lol

You haven't said how 9/11 defied all history with the collapse of those towers. It's not like I haven't given you the opportunity, over and over. At this point, I'd have to believe you don't have an answer. Given that, it makes sense that you would try to hinge victory on attacking me, even if that is ultimately illogical.

[Spurtacular]

The Pentagon attack was weird too, there is an old guy dying that said he was part of the implosion work, this is the article

http://www.disclose.tv/news/we_blew_up_wtc_7_on_911_cia_agent_confesses_on_dea thbed/139692

Its was planned in 1997 he says and I find that credible in the sense that USA needed an enemy to get all the goodies from Saddam, just like if USA invades Venezuela they will free people from that dictator but at the same time they will keep the petroleoum.
Business.

Yea, I saw that, too, some months back. The media didn't bother to cover it. The last thing they want to do is tell the truth.

[Pavlov]

A bomb, probably.A bomb probably from where?
Certainly wasn't a plane though. Or do you think the plane just incinerated?I think the lighter parts of plane like the wings partially desintegrated against the reinforced outer walls and the fuselage punched through the rings of the building, breaking up along the way and leaving debris throughout.

If you think there was no plane, what happened to the 65 people said to be on the plane?

[Mikeanaro]

Did humanity ever see jumbo jets fly into skyscrapers at 500+ mph?
Yes, crashing and they never made a 541 meter crater yet because of the fire.

[Pavlov]

You haven't said how 9/11 defied all history with the collapse of those towers. It's not like I haven't given you the opportunity, over and over. At this point, I'd have to believe you don't have an answer. Given that, it makes sense that you would try to hinge victory on attacking me, even if that is ultimately illogical.Here's what is happening.

1) You don't know the basics of the government collapse theory.

2) You are demanding I tell you the basics of the government theory of collapse.

3) I did a test run an hour ago to see how long it might take a reasonable person to look up the government theory of collapse. It took under five minutes.

4) I told you to look it up.

5) You did not look it up.

[Spurtacular]

A bomb probably from where?I think the lighter parts of plane like the wings partially desintegrated against the reinforced outer walls and the fuselage punched through the rings of the building, breaking up along the way and leaving debris throughout.

If you think there was no plane, what happened to the 65 people said to be on the plane?

No signs of a plane, whatsoever. I don't know what happened to the 65 people. I suspect they were either made up or executed. Certainly, the one woman whispered "it's a frame" at the end of her call. But as long as we're talking about this, tell me why cell phones suddenly started working at 30,000 feet up when that was a near scientific impossibility for the technology of the time?

[Pavlov]

Yes, crashing and they never made a 541 meter crater yet because of the fire.You need to explain what you mean here. truthers are always jumping from one topic to another when they hit a dead end. You're the one jumping, so be specific about where you're jumping.

[Spurtacular]

Here's what is happening.

1) You don't know the basics of the government collapse theory.

2) You are demanding I tell you the basics of the government theory of collapse.

3) I did a test run an hour ago to see how long it might take a reasonable person to look up the government theory of collapse. It took under five minutes.

4) I told you to look it up.

5) You did not look it up.

Bla, bla. How did the towers collapse?

[DarrinS]

Bla, bla. How did the towers collapse?

Structural failure

[Pavlov]

No signs of a plane, whatsoever.Threre were signs of a plane all over the ground outside the Pentagon right after impact. Surely you have seen the pictures in all your years of research.


I don't know what happened to the 65 people. I suspect they were either made up or executed.Where did the 757 go?


Certainly, the one woman whispered "it's a frame" at the end of her call.I'm going to call bullshit on that one. You need to provide a link for something like that.


But as long as we're talking about this, tell me why cell phones suddenly started working at 30,000 feet up when that was a near scientific impossibility for the technology of the time?Hey, another topic jump. Most of the calls were from seatback air phones, so you're going to have to be specific about which calls.

[Pavlov]

Bla, bla. How did the towers collapse?You can't tell anyone you have researched this if you don't know the generally accepted theory of structural collapse.

You have no credibility without that knowledge and now you are proving you have no interest in actually seeking it for yourself.

[Wild Cobra]

Stupid People like this are as big a danger to this country as any racist




I would say libtards are far more dangerous than any racist.

[Pavlov]

I would say libtards are far more dangerous than any racist.Of course you would.

[Mikeanaro]

You need to explain what you mean here. truthers are always jumping from one topic to another when they hit a dead end. You're the one jumping, so be specific about where you're jumping.
I dont need to explain nothing, you always have problems when something contradicts your theories, in this particular case you are saying the fire of the WTC has hotter than lava.

No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC." FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F).Aug 1, 2017

[Wild Cobra]

Of course you would.

Yes, I am somewhat predictable on some topics...

[Spurtacular]

Threre were signs of a plane all over the ground outside the Pentagon right after impact. Surely you have seen the pictures in all your years of research.

Where did the 757 go?

I'm going to call bullshit on that one. You need to provide a link for something like that.

Hey, another topic jump. Most of the calls were from seatback air phones, so you're going to have to be specific about which calls.

Many calls were from cellphones (and with perfect voice clarity) even though cellphones were not designed to do that.

Go ahead and show me these "signs of plane all over the ground" and btw, :lmao that you call it "signs of plane" and not actually pieces of plane. And as long as we're on the subject of planes, why did we never get to hear the audio of the black boxes?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH7rNddIabo

[DarrinS]

I dont need to explain nothing, you always have problems when something contradicts your theories, in this particular case you are saying the fire of the WTC has hotter than lava.

No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC." FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F).Aug 1, 2017


Does steel have to be molten to be weak? Use your brain cells.

[DarrinS]

Fuck, why am I engaging in this retarded argument?

[Pavlov]

I dont need to explain nothing, you always have problems when something contradicts your theories, in this particular case you are saying the fire of the WTC has hotter than lava.

No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC." FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F).Aug 1, 2017Where are you getting all this melting steel business? You're going to have to explain that, I'm afraid.

[Spurtacular]

I dont need to explain nothing, you always have problems when something contradicts your theories, in this particular case you are saying the fire of the WTC has hotter than lava.

No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC." FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F).Aug 1, 2017

But...but...but... Pavlov really wants to believe! Fucking stool pigeon.

[Pavlov]

Does steel have to be molten to be weak? Use your brain cells.


Fuck, why am I engaging in this retarded argument?:lol They've been going on like this for hours. I gave them every hint possible.

[Pavlov]

But...but...but... Pavlov really wants to believe! Fucking stool pigeon.Yeah, I see all this melting steel stuff in bold. Why do you all think this has to do with melting steel?

[Spurtacular]

Where are you getting all this melting steel business? You're going to have to explain that, I'm afraid.

For about the seventh time now, you still haven't said how the towers fell. The closest you've came is, 'google it.' :lmao

[DarrinS]

:lol They've been going on like this for hours. I gave them every hint possible.

Maybe they've never seen a blacksmith work. :lol