2nd best team in West: Rockets or Thunder?

[TD 21]

Before Anthony trade, had Rockets as better regular season team and leaned Thunder as better playoff team. Think regular season is now a virtual coin flip, but am now more certain about playoffs and since they're obviously more important, I'm going Thunder.

One thing's clear, Spurs aren't even in the mix. What's worse, if it was ever so much as ajar, the door officially slammed shut on Westbrook to Spurs possibility. Can't imagine Anthony, with 2 years left, isn't agreeing to go to Oklahoma City without having gotten assurance from him that he's staying. Without any other path to legit second star on horizon, time to officially entertain notion of Leonard not re-signing past current contract.

[RD2191]

I'd give the edge to the Thunder.

[TimDunkem]

Regardless, it isn't the Spurs.

In before, "The Klaw will take us past GS, Houston, and OKCancer all by himself! Just watch!!!"

[TimDunkem]

PATFO fluffers here are actually downplaying this move. Not surprised but, if OKC was a bad match-up last year with one man and no bench - what chance do the Spurs have now with one legitimate scoring option and true lockdown defender (fuck Danny Green and two years too late All-Defensive team award)?

[bklynspursfan]

Teams don't win on paper. Let's see things look halfway in to the season.

[TimDunkem]

Teams don't win on paper. Let's see things look halfway in to the season.
We definitely learned that in 2016 when OKC murked us.

[apalisoc_9]

feel bad for kawhi.

he aint getting help but he will win 50 plus games and proccedd not to win mvp because apparently he plays for such a great team. :cry

Move to LA if you are reading this my man. You dont deserve this.

Popvich and RC buford treat their players like plantation workers tbh

[TimDunkem]

feel bad for kawhi.

he aint getting help but he will win 50 plus games and proccedd not to win mvp because apparently he plays for such a great team. :cry

Move to LA if you are reading this my man. You dont deserve this.

Popvich and RC buford treat their players like plantation workers tbh
No part of me wants Kawhi to leave, but I wouldn't blame him at all.

R.C. and Co. would deserve it if they continue to fail to put a contending team around him within the next few years.

[apalisoc_9]

Before Anthony trade, had Rockets as better regular season team and leaned Thunder as better playoff team. Think regular season is now a virtual coin flip, but am now more certain about playoffs and since they're obviously more important, I'm going Thunder.

One thing's clear, Spurs aren't even in the mix. What's worse, if it was ever so much as ajar, the door officially slammed shut on Westbrook to Spurs possibility. Can't imagine Anthony, with 2 years left, isn't agreeing to go to Oklahoma City without having gotten assurance from him that he's staying. Without any other path to legit second star on horizon, time to officially entertain notion of Leonard not re-signing past current contract.

Been saying Kawhi to LA for a year now. Pops and RC ego is finally catching up to them, tbh. Nevermind that hes a 25 year old that plays 33 minutes and gets yanked because hey we gotta show the world its a team effort pop.

He aint getting team success here or indovidual sucess in the future. He needs to leave.

[DMC]

Spurs are still the 2nd best team in the West. Paul George didn't take Westbrook out of his "me" crusade and Choker didn't take Choker 2.0 out of his choking crusade. Spurs still have a coach and a system, and they still have the guys who got them there last year.

Both the Thunder and the Rockets suffer from what many NBA teams suffer from: Players on the floor trying to coach the team while the coach acts as a cheerleader.

[SuperCam]

No part of me wants Kawhi to leave, but I wouldn't blame him at all.

R.C. and Co. would deserve it if they continue to fail to put a contending team around him within the next few years.

I actually think a lot of the PATFO suckers are happy about the last two offseasons because they'd rather Kiwi win MVP than see his numbers go down in the presence of another star.

[TimDunkem]

Spurs are still the 2nd best team in the West. Paul George didn't take Westbrook out of his "me" crusade and Choker didn't take Choker 2.0 out of his choking crusade. Spurs still have a coach and a system, and they still have the guys who got them there last year.

Both the Thunder and the Rockets suffer from what many NBA teams suffer from: Players on the floor trying to coach the team while the coach acts as a cheerleader.
Talent still wins games when it matters the most. The Spurs are a one-man team with declining pieces and no real legitimate scoring option after Kawhi. If OKC was a bad match-up last season, this year will be much worse.

2nd in the West doesn't mean much when your pieces after Kawhi are out of gas by the second round and the games are close.

[bklynspursfan]

Spurs are still the 2nd best team in the West. Paul George didn't take Westbrook out of his "me" crusade and Choker didn't take Choker 2.0 out of his choking crusade. Spurs still have a coach and a system, and they still have the guys who got them there last year.

Both the Thunder and the Rockets suffer from what many NBA teams suffer from: Players on the floor trying to coach the team while the coach acts as a cheerleader.

Agreed. One could argue if a philosophy change is indeed coming in terms of playing smaller, they'll be even better, based off the result we saw last season when they went small.

[TheGreatYacht]

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/warriors.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKbYdb8VoAA2_PL.jpg:large
http://rockets.clutchfans.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/chris-paul-houston-rockets-rally.jpg
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/pagMyjLSqjWGCe1oe0W_GJASoWw=/0x0:1200x628/fit-in/1200x630/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9306053/twolves.jpg
http://ballersjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/jusuf-nurkic-blazers-portland.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/nuggets/sites/default/files/styles/story_main_photo/public/dn-history-players-1000x667-recovered.jpg?itok=yeSG9Lkx
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/themonitor.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/e4/6e468c78-dbe9-11e3-96ba-0017a43b2370/537442a1e616c.image.jpg

[BillMc]

Spurs are still the 2nd best team in the West. Paul George didn't take Westbrook out of his "me" crusade and Choker didn't take Choker 2.0 out of his choking crusade. Spurs still have a coach and a system, and they still have the guys who got them there last year.

Both the Thunder and the Rockets suffer from what many NBA teams suffer from: Players on the floor trying to coach the team while the coach acts as a cheerleader.

This is right. Rockets improved. I'm not sure what a washed-up Melo does for OKC, but giving them the benefit of the doubt we'll say they improved slightly. Spurs still would be favored over OKC. Some pundits like the Rockets, but D'Antoni teams are only built for the regular season. I'd favor Spurs over them both.

[TimDunkem]

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/warriors.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKbYdb8VoAA2_PL.jpg:large
http://rockets.clutchfans.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/chris-paul-houston-rockets-rally.jpg
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/pagMyjLSqjWGCe1oe0W_GJASoWw=/0x0:1200x628/fit-in/1200x630/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9306053/twolves.jpg
http://ballersjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/jusuf-nurkic-blazers-portland.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/nuggets/sites/default/files/styles/story_main_photo/public/dn-history-players-1000x667-recovered.jpg?itok=yeSG9Lkx
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/themonitor.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/e4/6e468c78-dbe9-11e3-96ba-0017a43b2370/537442a1e616c.image.jpg
:lol.....:depressed

[Chinook]

What the Melo trade did was take out HOU as the second-best team and make them and OKC on the same tier. Whether the Spurs are above or below that tier depends on how well they can utilize their talent. They have the horses, but all of them have question marks.

[Chinook]

And :lol at think Millsap was some loss. LMA's been better than that dude his whole career, even last year.

[SuperCam]

:lol.....:depressed

:lmao

Forgot These three though:

https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/davis-cousins-e1500986652140.jpg

any of these two would also be 2nd best spur player:

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/cfcec4741aab8cb70ee3fc60336117fb816ae5a6/c=1123-108-3019-2637&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/USATODAY/test/2013/12/15//1387150070000-12-15-2013-Griffin-Jordan.jpg

[TimDunkem]

What the Melo trade did was take out HOU as the second-best team and make them and OKC on the same tier. Whether the Spurs are above or below that tier depends on how well they can utilize their talent. They have the horses, but all of them have question marks.
You mean a declining no talent Danny Green, a guy named Fatty who chokes in big playoff series, LMA:lol who can't post up guards, a tired old Spaniard who is tired by the 3rd, a 41 year old sixth man, a guy coming off a ruptured tendon, a guy coming off a ruptured achilles, Fathead Uno and Fathead Dos, a raw sophomore, and Joffrey Lannister?

[TheGreatYacht]

Fuck. How did I forget the two teams that always cuck Pop-led teams

[TimDunkem]

:lmao

Forgot These three though:

https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/davis-cousins-e1500986652140.jpg

any of these two would also be 2nd best spur player:

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/cfcec4741aab8cb70ee3fc60336117fb816ae5a6/c=1123-108-3019-2637&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/USATODAY/test/2013/12/15//1387150070000-12-15-2013-Griffin-Jordan.jpg
Can't wait until we're still losing to these bum teams because all we have to match-up with them are LMA:lol and Pau Gas:lolft.

[TheGreatYacht]

You mean a declining no talent Danny Green, a guy named Fatty who chokes in big playoff series, LMA:lol who can't post up guards, a tired old Spaniard who is tired by the 3rd, a 41 year old sixth man, a guy coming off a ruptured tendon, a guy coming off a ruptured achilles, Fathead Uno and Fathead Dos, a raw sophomore, and Joffrey Lannister?
There's no comeback to this. Not one single lie here

[TimDunkem]

Fuck. How did I forget the two teams that always cuck Pop-led teams
Never forget...
fozS4wwu_I0

[TD 21]

To be clear, Spurs' continuity and residue of winning could win the day in the regular season, but there's no credible argument (save for the obligatory injury caveat) for them not being 4th going into playoffs.

Spurs would probably be better off finishing 4th and ensuring matchup with Warriors in WCSF. By then, it'll have been 4 years in the making. Would like one healthy series against them just to end the speculation and see, once and for all, the exact extent of the gap.

[TimDunkem]

To be clear, Spurs' continuity and residue of winning could win the day in the regular season, but there's no credible argument (save for the obligatory injury caveat) for them not being 4th going into playoffs.

Spurs would probably be better off finishing 4th and ensuring matchup with Warriors in WCSF. By then, it'll have been 4 years in the making. Would like one healthy series against them just to end the speculation and see, once and for all, the exact extent of the gap.
No doubt bringing back the gang of bums wins you games in the regular season as other teams are getting their bearings. There's also no doubt that talent will get you to the title in today's NBA with all these "super teams" forming. People are kidding themselves if they don't believe it will be a uphill climb getting past these teams for the Spurs.

[DMC]

Talent still wins games when it matters the most. The Spurs are a one-man team with declining pieces and no real legitimate scoring option after Kawhi. If OKC was a bad match-up last season, this year will be much worse.

2nd in the West doesn't mean much when your pieces after Kawhi are out of gas by the second round and the games are close.

I guess the scrubs that stomped the living shit out of Houston in the game that mattered the most for Houston last year won't agree with your assessment.

What wins games is the ability to maintain composure, make plays and execute a game plan instead of falling apart like many teams do when the pressure mounts because the PG cannot coach the team and play the game during situational awareness moments.

[TimDunkem]

I guess the scrubs that stomped the living shit out of Houston in the game that mattered the most for Houston last year won't agree with your assessment.

What wins games is the ability to maintain composure, make plays and execute a game plan instead of falling apart like many teams do when the pressure mounts because the PG cannot coach the team and play the game during situational awareness moments.
But Houston wasn't more talented than SA last year, imo, and that last game seemed more of an issue of Houston running out of gas than anything. Something this year's Spurs are going to have to worry about with so many old men still playing huge roles.

Also, having the superior coach and team continuity didn't really help in 2015 and 2016 did it?

[coachmac87]

Who cares who's #2 seed in October...

The Spurs could finish 2nd come May and this entire board would still preach fools gold.

Stupid thread..

[BillMc]

And :lol at think Millsap was some loss. LMA's been better than that dude his whole career, even last year.
+1

[DMC]

But Houston wasn't more talented than SA last year, imo, and that last game seemed more of an issue of Houston running out of gas than anything. Something this year's Spurs are going to have to worry about with so many old men still playing huge roles.

Also, having the superior coach and team continuity didn't really help in 2015 and 2016 did it?

You cannot tell me that team in game 6 was less talented than the Spurs bench who was playing starter minutes. If you're going to use circular reasoning to say any team that wins is more talented, then your argument is pointless from the start.

[timtonymanu]

The low expectations for the Spurs should make this year less stressful to follow at least.

[TimDunkem]

You cannot tell me that team in game 6 was less talented than the Spurs bench who was playing starter minutes. If you're going to use circular reasoning to say any team that wins is more talented, then your argument is pointless from the start.
I didn't say that at all. I said up until the Spurs lost players, they were the more talented team. After that, it became an issue of stamina in game 6.

For the most part, in today's NBA with these loaded teams, it will take talent or talent that wins important individual match-ups to win it all. Bottom line, the Spurs don't have it.

[TD 21]

But Houston wasn't more talented than SA last year, imo, and that last game seemed more of an issue of Houston running out of gas than anything. Something this year's Spurs are going to have to worry about with so many old men still playing huge roles.

Also, having the superior coach and team continuity didn't really help in 2015 and 2016 did it?

So many Spurs fans are delusional and don't realize that the post prime Duncan big 3 era was a one in a million type thing. Not only were those 3 better as they aged than often given credit for, but the chemistry, continuity, IQ, unselfishness and towards the end depth, is not something that can be replicated again to mostly mask the high end talent deficient against other elites. This team has virtually none of that and the elites are more stacked now than most were throughout that era.

Even with all the post prime Duncan big 3 had going for them, as successful as they were, even they only won 1 championship and it was aided, in part, by a key player on their biggest impediment missing the first 2 games of a series and being hobbled thereafter.

[TimDunkem]

So many Spurs fans are delusional and don't realize that the post prime Duncan big 3 era was a one in a million type thing. Not only were those 3 better as they aged than often given credit for, but the chemistry, continuity, IQ, unselfishness and towards the end depth, is not something that can be replicated again to mostly mask the high end talent deficient against other elites. This team has virtually none of that and the elites are more stacked now than most were throughout that era.

Even with all the post prime Duncan big 3 had going for them, as successful as they were, even they only won 1 championship and it was aided, in part, by a key player on their biggest impediment missing the first 2 games of a series and being hobbled thereafter.

Guys like DMC are not wrong when they say coaching and continuity matters but, when it comes down to it, putting the ball in the hoop is what matters. Of course coaching and continuity will win out provided all things are equal. Yes, it wins you games to solidify a good position in the standings.

With that said, you can't discount it when it overwhelmingly tips in another team's favor, especially in important match-ups. We saw that in 2015 when CP3 was outplaying all of our guards and hit that big shot. We saw it in 2016 when Kawhi and LMA couldn't carry us past Russ, KD, and their three-headed bigman rotation. Talent and match-ups matter and cannot be downplayed.

And, more to your point, we have less of a collective BBIQ and continuity than ever when you look at the roster. Too many rookies, and sophomores now to make the claim that we have such a massive edge even in this area.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

West is much better than the east...

1) GSW 64-18
2) HOU 60-22
3) OKC 58-24
4) SAS 56-26
5) MIN 53-29
6) NUG 50-32
7) NOLA 46-36
8) LAC 45-37
9) UTA 44-38

10) POR 40-42

11) MEM 31-51
12) LAL 27-55
13) SAC 22-60
14) PHX 18-64
15) DAL 14-68

[SAGirl]

What the Melo trade did was take out HOU as the second-best team and make them and OKC on the same tier. Whether the Spurs are above or below that tier depends on how well they can utilize their talent. They have the horses, but all of them have question marks.
Fully expecting some old horses to get injured late in the season or in the playoffs but not b4 creating a sense that things are fine in Pop's mind during the RS and stand pat. Might even keep some young ponies from getting into the race too. Age and injuries Spurs worst nemesis right now.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see how OKC works with this. I wouldn't have picked up Melo, at all. Maybe it works, I guess.

I still don't see how Harden and Paul play to each other's strengths. These are also old players on their downside, so it's just for a year or so that this matters anyway.

The real story is there are few young impact players and almost all of the other ones play for the Warriors.

[DMC]

I didn't say that at all. I said up until the Spurs lost players, they were the more talented team. After that, it became an issue of stamina in game 6.

For the most part, in today's NBA with these loaded teams, it will take talent or talent that wins important individual match-ups to win it all. Bottom line, the Spurs don't have it.

Make up your mind. These caveats make your point useless. Also, having the best coach absolutely helped, unless you think 29 other teams all ended up in last place.

[TimDunkem]

Make up your mind. These caveats make your point useless.

What are you on about? Talent wins championships and that's my opinion. One sole example of that not happening in the Rockets/Spurs series doesn't change that fact. You'd think you would understand that after watching your team get bounced out of the playoffs year in and year out by more talented teams.

But, by all means, go on about this one example and ignore the fact that the Spurs don't have much talent, or even the continuity factor when you consider all the raw pieces and new faces on the team to make a safe bet that they're still the second best team in the West.

[vy65]

You cannot tell me that team in game 6 was less talented than the Spurs bench who was playing starter minutes. If you're going to use circular reasoning to say any team that wins is more talented, then your argument is pointless from the start.

Who's Jonathon Simmons play for again?

[TimDunkem]

Overwhelming talent will win playoff series in this conference now. How can anyone deny this? The Spurs won't get past GS, and likely won't even get that far with one star, old men still playing huge roles, and so many young pieces that go against the argument of continuity winning out. As for superior coaching, that will only get you so far when only one of your players can put the ball in the hoop and comfortably play more than 30 mpg.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

The low expectations for the Spurs should make this year less stressful to follow at least.

A lot like the low expectations going into the 2002-03 season honestly.

2002 offseason the Spurs seemed to get worse by losing players in FA and to retirement, David was on his last legs and about to be calling it quits, and there just was no beating the albatross that was the Lakers in the playoffs, not to mention the Kings and Mavs continuing to get better near the top. Duncan was a lone wolf with no help and we were about to be relying on extremely inexperienced guys to be the major primary role players around Timmy.

Most people in SA expected about a 4th-5th place finish for the 2003 season and another second round exit. And a nice farewell tour for the Admiral at worst.

[bklynspursfan]

Fully expecting some old horses to get injured late in the season or in the playoffs but not b4 creating a sense that things are fine in Pop's mind during the RS and stand pat. Might even keep some young ponies from getting into the race too. Age and injuries Spurs worst nemesis right now.

Are the Spurs really that old tho? TP/Manu/Pau.. Who else?

[TimDunkem]

A lot like the low expectations going into the 2002-03 season honestly.

2002 offseason the Spurs seemed to get worse by losing players in FA and to retirement, David was on his last legs and about to be calling it quits, and there just was no beating the albatross that was the Lakers in the playoffs, not to mention the Kings and Mavs continuing to get better near the top. Duncan was a lone wolf with no help and we were about to be relying on extremely inexperienced guys to be the major primary role players around Timmy.

Most people in SA expected about a 4th-5th place finish for the 2003 season and another second round exit. And a nice farewell tour for the Admiral at worst.

Then again, there wasn't a GS to go up against.

[TimDunkem]

Are the Spurs really that old tho? TP/Manu/Pau.. Who else?

Aren't Gay and Aldridge over 30? Still old by NBA standards. Also, TP, Manu, and Pau have huge roles to play.

[diego]

With that said, you can't discount it when it overwhelmingly tips in another team's favor, especially in important match-ups. We saw that in 2015 when CP3 was outplaying all of our guards and hit that big shot. We saw it in 2016 when Kawhi and LMA couldn't carry us past Russ, KD, and their three-headed bigman rotation. Talent and match-ups matter and cannot be downplayed.



2015 and 16, when the Spurs outscored their opponent on both series, and lost several decisive games on bizarre bad calls, are proof that the Spurs don't have enough talent. Smh

I understand frustration with this offseason, but this Melo deal doesn't change anything for the spurs, if anything it's great news because rockets didnt get him, and gs are more likely to face a better team in semis.

[TimDunkem]

2015 and 16, when the Spurs outscored their opponent on both series, and lost several decisive games on bizarre bad calls, are proof that the Spurs don't have enough talent. Smh

I understand frustration with this offseason, but this Melo deal doesn't change anything for the spurs, if anything it's great news because rockets didnt get him, and gs are more likely to face a better team in semis.

Ah, we're blaming refs now. Okay, it had nothing to do with Kawhi being the only clear personnel advantage we had in either of those series. Totally had nothing to do with talent.

I'll give you 2015 as injuries played a role. 2016, we simply were not the better team.

[diego]

Tell me, how often does the losing team in a series outscore the winner?

[Chillen]

One thing is for sure if all these West teams stay healthy, for the Warriors getting to the NBA Finals isn't going to be a cakewalk unless ZaZa rolls the ankle of every star player. GS is the favorite to come out of the West, but it will be a difficult task if they can pull it off again. This would favor the Cavaliers to win the championship because their toughest series will probably be vs Celtics, Warriors will either be battle tested or exhausted if they can make it back to the NBA finals. I would say neither the Warriors or Cavs is a lock for the Finals, but it's the most likely outcome.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Then again, there wasn't a GS to go up against.
The Lakers had the most dominant pure center and the most dominant perimeter scorer in the game. On the same team. Not to mention, their role players (3-9 on the depth chart) were all crazy accurate shooters in the playoffs and clutch as fuck.

And had won three championships in a row, all 3 Finals wins very convincing. None of that 3-1 choking like the Warriettes.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

One thing is for sure if all these West teams stay healthy, for the Warriors getting to the NBA Finals isn't going to be a cakewalk unless ZaZa rolls the ankle of every star player. GS is the favorite to come out of the West, but it will be a difficult task if they can pull it off again. This would favor the Cavaliers to win the championship because their toughest series will probably be vs Celtics, Warriors will either be battle tested or exhausted if they can make it back to the NBA finals. I would say neither the Warriors or Cavs is a lock for the Finals, but it's the most likely outcome.
Celtics are better than the Cavs honestly. Irving is a million times better than "Mr Irrelevant" Midget IT.

[ace3g]

911667136661266432

[coachmac87]

911667136661266432

Not sure adding CP3 and Melo to those teams absolutely makes them a better team than Spurs


It's "sexy" and "new" but Rockets didn't lose to Spurs because of what Paul brings to the table..Paul doesn't help Rockets defend the Spurs...

OKC is interesting but Melo doesn't do the little things...but I'm curious how this plays out. But against the Spurs in a series not sure how he hurts us.

[raybies]

dont understand how you could add Melo to the picture and not LMA. Melo aint even a top 50 player and hes older than Aldridge. LMA deserves to be in the pic. The hate is unreal man.

edit: si has melo ranked 37 and lma 31... yet melo can be in the pic cause of brand i guess smh

[Uriel]

It’s amazing how much people overrate Carmelo Anthony. Dude is 33 years old, a ballhog, a perennial loser, and in a downward trajectory at this point in his career.

If anything, losing Kanter hurts OKC more than it helps them. They’ll finish as the 4th seed in the West (at best) and lose to the Warriors in the 2nd round. Book it.

[vy65]

Not sure adding CP3 and Melo to those teams absolutely makes them a better team than Spurs


It's "sexy" and "new" but Rockets didn't lose to Spurs because of what Paul brings to the table..Paul doesn't help Rockets defend the Spurs...

OKC is interesting but Melo doesn't do the little things...but I'm curious how this plays out. But against the Spurs in a series not sure how he hurts us.

Patty and Pau make a combined 28.5MM/year. Melo makes around 23-24. Would you rather have Patty + Pau or Melo?

[DMC]

Melo didn't make NY better. At one point he had a fairly stacked team and did nothing with it. He's a loser. He does really well against 3rd world countries with a team of superstars though.

[SAGirl]

Are the Spurs really that old tho? TP/Manu/Pau.. Who else?
The 3 of them are really old. That's enough when they aren't depth players, but rather some of your main guys or frankly some of your most significant playmakers and offensive weapons beside Kawhi.

Rudy Gay is not an old horse but he's an injured horse, coming off a delicate and potentially career ending injury. It's a question mark he would even be the same. He says he's fine. I will see it when I see it personally. I also don't take for granted that he may not get injured again when he already got that injury.

[SAGirl]

dont understand how you could add Melo to the picture and not LMA. Melo aint even a top 50 player and hes older than Aldridge. LMA deserves to be in the pic. The hate is unreal man.

edit: si has melo ranked 37 and lma 31... yet melo can be in the pic cause of brand i guess smh
For me this isn't about Melo to the Spurs bc he doesn't make sense for this roster. I didn't want him personally, but it makes me bitter to see rivals left and right improving, while Spurs are standing pat this summer and for the foreseeable future.

[raybies]

For me this isn't about Melo to the Spurs bc he doesn't make sense for this roster. I didn't want him personally, but it makes me bitter to see rivals left and right improving, while Spurs are standing pat this summer and for the foreseeable future.
the picture ace3g posted had melo in the pic with westbrook and george yet they omit lma next to kawhi like hes worse or something. id rather have aldridge than melo... aldridge beat houston. wasnt much he could do against one of the greatest rosters assembled... hes good against a mismatch and with a point that can make life easier. he had neither in the wcf. i accept him for who he is tbh but thats a tangent

[SAGirl]

the picture ace3g posted had melo in the pic with westbrook and george yet they omit lma next to kawhi like hes worse or something. id rather have aldridge than melo... aldridge beat houston. wasnt much he could do against one of the greatest rosters assembled... hes good against a mismatch and with a point that can make life easier. he had neither in the wcf. i accept him for who he is tbh but thats a tangent
Oh I missed the reference to the picture. I guess you are right. The picture was trolling, meant to exaggerate I think. LMA has helped out but he got outplayed by 40 yr old Manu, JSimms and Kyle once Kawhi went down against GSW. That's still in ppls mind (while they don't give props to JSimms and Kyle).

[Crazymaddopeyo]

It’s the Spurs. Can’t wait until you are all proven wrong.

[Spurtacular]

Cliff jumping thread?

[exstatic]

Before Anthony trade, had Rockets as better regular season team and leaned Thunder as better playoff team. Think regular season is now a virtual coin flip, but am now more certain about playoffs and since they're obviously more important, I'm going Thunder.

One thing's clear, Spurs aren't even in the mix. What's worse, if it was ever so much as ajar, the door officially slammed shut on Westbrook to Spurs possibility. Can't imagine Anthony, with 2 years left, isn't agreeing to go to Oklahoma City without having gotten assurance from him that he's staying. Without any other path to legit second star on horizon, time to officially entertain notion of Leonard not re-signing past current contract.
Well, since NY got virtually nothing for him, I'd guess there were no assurances at all on Melo's part. You have two world class ball hogs in Melo and Westchuck, meaning PG 13 will never see the rock. Houston gutted their bench, so my answer is the Spurs.

[tholdren]

I didn't say that at all. I said up until the Spurs lost players, they were the more talented team. After that, it became an issue of stamina in game 6.

For the most part, in today's NBA with these loaded teams, it will take talent or talent that wins important individual match-ups to win it all. Bottom line, the Spurs don't have it.

Step away from keyboard.....

[John B]

4th seed is not looking too bad. We'd stop the speculation what if getting Dubs,and get OKC and HOU slug it out. MVP Kawhi a lock. Go Spurs Go. :flag:

[TimDunkem]

:cry I'm obsessed. I can't stop following you around. :cry This is just getting sad. :lol

[tholdren]

This is just getting sad. :lol

Wahhhhhhhhhhhh

[lefty20]

Klaw to the Superteams: "I'll take you all on"

:claw

[RD2191]

This is just getting sad. :lol

Looks like you got a stalker.

[spurs10]

OKC and Houston should improve, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. There is so little parity in the NBA since Durant decided to join a 73 win team . The Spurs are also likely to improve. Perhaps not in terms of wins and losses, but I see them improving as possible contenders.

[benefactor]

Well, since NY got virtually nothing for him, I'd guess there were no assurances at all on Melo's part. You have two world class ball hogs in Melo and Westchuck, meaning PG 13 will never see the rock. Houston gutted their bench, so my answer is the Spurs.
OP is a Thunder fan. He's been washing Westbrook's balls for years now.

[SASdynasty!]

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/warriors.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKbYdb8VoAA2_PL.jpg:large
http://rockets.clutchfans.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/chris-paul-houston-rockets-rally.jpg
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/pagMyjLSqjWGCe1oe0W_GJASoWw=/0x0:1200x628/fit-in/1200x630/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9306053/twolves.jpg
http://ballersjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/jusuf-nurkic-blazers-portland.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/nuggets/sites/default/files/styles/story_main_photo/public/dn-history-players-1000x667-recovered.jpg?itok=yeSG9Lkx
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/themonitor.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/e4/6e468c78-dbe9-11e3-96ba-0017a43b2370/537442a1e616c.image.jpg
Lol Mills!

Player comparison in year 8 of career:

Tony Parker: 22.0 PPG, 6.9 APG, 51% shooting / 3x All-Star, FMVP
Patty Mills: 9.5 PPG, 3.5 APG, 44% shooting / 0x All-Star

Playoffs in year 8:

Tony Parker: 28.6 PPG, 6.8 APG, 55% shooting
Patty Mills: 10.3 PPG, 2.7 APG, 41% shooting

The saddest part of all of it is that Parker outplayed him THIS season.

[TimDunkem]

Looks like you got a stalker.
This guy has Kevin Durant levels of sensitivity to people online with a little psychosis thrown in. He's been following me around all summer, but it's increased lately after me and DMC pointed out how salty he always is. Since then, he's been following me around daily and non-stop quoting me. Guy has obviously lost his shit. :lol

[TimDunkem]

Lol Mills!

Player comparison in year 8 of career:

Tony Parker: 22.0 PPG, 6.9 APG, 51% shooting / 3x All-Star, FMVP
Patty Mills: 9.5 PPG, 3.5 APG, 44% shooting / 0x All-Star

Playoffs in year 8:

Tony Parker: 28.6 PPG, 6.8 APG, 55% shooting
Patty Mills: 10.3 PPG, 2.7 APG, 41% shooting

The saddest part of all of it is that Parker outplayed him THIS season.
All the people who compare him to Eddie House are insulting House. At least House didn't have tunnel vision or choke in big games. Fatty, meanwhile shoots 21% in big games and still needs a 40 year old to run the offense for him. :lmao

[RD2191]

This guy has Kevin Durant levels of sensitivity to people online with a little psychosis thrown in. He's been following me around all summer, but it's increased lately after me and DMC pointed out how salty he always is. Since then, he's been following me around daily and non-stop quoting me. Guy has obviously lost his shit. :lol

Damn, I'd watch your back just in case. :lol

[TimDunkem]

Damn, I'd watch your back just in case. :lol
Probably. Tholdren is the type of faggot to follow a girl home from the bar with a shovel, rope, and tape after she rejected him at the bar, or turn around and swerve through traffic chasing down the guy who flipped him off on the highway. :lol

[TD 21]

dont understand how you could add Melo to the picture and not LMA. Melo aint even a top 50 player and hes older than Aldridge. LMA deserves to be in the pic. The hate is unreal man.

edit: si has melo ranked 37 and lma 31... yet melo can be in the pic cause of brand i guess smh



For me this isn't about Melo to the Spurs bc he doesn't make sense for this roster. I didn't want him personally, but it makes me bitter to see rivals left and right improving, while Spurs are standing pat this summer and for the foreseeable future.

:tu



Well, since NY got virtually nothing for him, I'd guess there were no assurances at all on Melo's part. You have two world class ball hogs in Melo and Westchuck, meaning PG 13 will never see the rock. Houston gutted their bench, so my answer is the Spurs.

What I meant was, this more than likely clinches Westbrook signing an extension, which more than likely closes Spurs' last possible route to much needed second perimeter superstar for foreseeable future and that doesn't improve odds of Leonard extending. There's no player I can't stand watching more than Westbrook, but winning a championship is more important than that and you don't get to pick and choose among elite players. You take what you can get.

Chemistry could be an issue for Thunder, but again, the days of Spurs beating more talented teams based on that, among other things, are gone. They're much closer to a typical team in those areas now, with inferior talent.

Rockets lack depth past top 9, but a either Paul or Harden-Gordon-Tucker-Mbah a Moute-Nene 2nd unit, is solid to good.

[SPURt]

#2 in the WC is Golden State. #1 is the Spurs.

It's true till it isn't :bobo

[SAGirl]

931663466431238144

[Robz4000]

Currently the Rockets, but the Thunder have the higher ceiling imo.

[hater]

Manure is fucking trash jesus christ

What a washed up mummy

[SAGirl]

Currently the Rockets, but the Thunder have the higher ceiling imo.
Thunder humiliated by understaffed Spurs. Rockets are better currently.

[Robz4000]

Thunder humiliated by understaffed Spurs. Rockets are better currently.

Like I said, the potential is there. It's up to the Thunder to figure it out. IMO, Rockets won't be much better than last season, if at all.

[SAGirl]

Like I said, the potential is there. It's up to the Thunder to figure it out. IMO, Rockets won't be much better than last season, if at all.
Then you have to consider the Spurs real contenders with this roster (everyone healthy though). But I will say this, CP3 always gives the Spurs fits.

[Robz4000]

Then you have to consider the Spurs real contenders with this roster (everyone healthy though). But I will say this, CP3 always gives the Spurs fits.

No one is a contender outside the Dubs unless they're derailed by injuries. Spurs could end up better than the rest if Kawhi returns and everything pans out well (LMA continues to play with confidence, Gasol keeps being a net-positive, Fathead keeps being MIP-level, the youngins keep showing up), but they'd just be that: second best.

Also, CP0 on the Rockets hasn't really worried me since the trade. I'm just not convinced him and Harden can coexist and he doesn't fit Houston's offense.

[Stabula]

Thunder humiliated by understaffed Spurs. Rockets are better currently.

[exstatic]

Thunder 0-6 vs. West.

[tholdren]

PATFO fluffers here are actually downplaying this move. Not surprised but, if OKC was a bad match-up last year with one man and no bench - what chance do the Spurs have now with one legitimate scoring option and true lockdown defender (fuck Danny Green and two years too late All-Defensive team award)?

Lolololo

[TD 21]

I've changed my mind and it has nothing to do with a random regular season game.

I'd now rank all 3 in the same tier for both regular season and playoffs, with the order being: Rockets, Spurs, Thunder.

Thunder needed to out star Spurs to be clearly better and Aldridge's re-emergence combined with George's somewhat limited role (he's too arrogant and young to accept this, which should lead to chemistry issues) due to Anthony's refusal to be Heat Bosh or Cavaliers Love, has narrowed that gap. Also, Patterson, their 5th best player, doesn't look the same post knee injury. This is an especially crushing blow for an already shallow team, with no credible backup C option.

[Stabula]

Spurs will be better than the Rockets with Kawhi and Tony back. Stronger stars, better coach, deeper bench.

[SAGirl]

What the Melo trade did was take out HOU as the second-best team and make them and OKC on the same tier. Whether the Spurs are above or below that tier depends on how well they can utilize their talent. They have the horses, but all of them have question marks.
wooot
Chinook with predictive powers here. :lol

I think with the Spurs internal development frankly they will be formidable once they have Kawhi and Tony back.

Guys are undermining the achievements of this team without Kawhi.

Lamarcus and Gasol are playing amazing basketball, Danny is much improved once he's run off the line, he's finishing those plays at a great rate it seems like, and Kyle is playing well and has become a rotation caliber player IMO. The Spurs have multiple weapons on the bench which Pop has been able to find playing time for, just in the right situations. Also, the Spurs have shooters to make a come back provided they get stops (Davis, Bryn and BP3 have each had 1 signature game). The Spurs are a good team that will be great once they have Kawhi back.

[SAGirl]

And :lol at think Millsap was some loss. LMA's been better than that dude his whole career, even last year.
Looking better than... right now too. Denver has actually struggled to incorporate him.

[SAGirl]

Fully expecting some old horses to get injured late in the season or in the playoffs but not b4 creating a sense that things are fine in Pop's mind during the RS and stand pat. Might even keep some young ponies from getting into the race too. Age and injuries Spurs worst nemesis right now.
Also kind of some predictive powers for myself here...
but young ponies be racing though, that I am glad to see.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Then you have to consider the Spurs real contenders with this roster (everyone healthy though). But I will say this, CP3 always gives the Spurs fits.

Rockets will get revenge against us in the second round

[Robz4000]

Rockets will get revenge against us in the second round

Actually think the Spurs would beat the Rockets in a rematch tbh; just don't think CP0 adds a new dimension to them. In fact, the additions of PJ Tucker and Luc Mbah a Moute worry me more. Much more worried about the likes of the Thunderefs, T'Pups, Guests, and Pels.

[TheRemix]

Spurs will be better than the Rockets with Kawhi and Tony back. Stronger stars, better coach, deeper bench.

Plus LMA was shit last season. He's been looking a lot better this year

[Fireball]

Plus LMA was shit last season. He's been looking a lot better this year
I still have doubts about him when Kawhi comes back ... Kawhi is a much more efficient scorer, so taking touches away from him to continue to accomodate LMA will not lead to success.
We can only hope ...

[boutons_deux]

I still have doubts about him when Kawhi comes back

yep, with KL and TP9 back as starters, it will be a new start to the season, new lineups, totally different distribution of minutes, chemistry, shot and ball sharing shifts.

LMA is already a bit of a black hole when he goes into his backing-down or fade-away moves. That ball ain't going anywhere but up in his shot. Open cutters and wide-open jump shooters need not apply.

[DaBears]

Spurs will be better than the Rockets with Kawhi and Tony back. Stronger stars, better coach, deeper bench.+

Spurs are a better team than both Thunder & Rockets! Rockets are a regular season show, CP3 will not change that for them.

[BillMc]

Spurs will be better than the Rockets with Kawhi and Tony back. Stronger stars, better coach, deeper bench.

[TheRemix]

I still have doubts about him when Kawhi comes back ... Kawhi is a much more efficient scorer, so taking touches away from him to continue to accomodate LMA will not lead to success.
We can only hope ...

Thats true, I could see him going back to his pouting ways.

[lebomb]

Rockets

[Mikeanaro]

Spurs, Kawhi is much better than CP3, the Thunder is full of choking faggots.

[raybies]

I still have doubts about him when Kawhi comes back ... Kawhi is a much more efficient scorer, so taking touches away from him to continue to accomodate LMA will not lead to success.
We can only hope ...
Kawhi has an overuse disease. He'll need a lighter load to ensure he has a long productive career. The thing about Kawhi is that he is an efficient one on one scorer. He's still not great passing out the double team. He's been improving out the pnr but imo LMA would be best suited as a workhorse threat, taking a bulk of the possessions through quarters 1-3, running the offense through him, and having Leonard close. I've been saying for a long time, Kawhi doesn't need the ball to score. He can shoot threes, board, and he gets steals. It's not hard for him to get points. But to keep LMA going throughout the game and in rhythm in the fourth and lighten the load on Kawhi with him closing would be the wisest play imo.

Having the offense overly reliant on Kawhi is not good for the team. Right now there is a balance forming and we are getting great production from lots of players. Say what you want about LMA but his passing out the double team is greatly improved and he is borderline dominant in the post. He's a problem. People will argue that going through the post is not a good way to initiate the offense but it really comes down to how efficient we are at it. I'm not sure how many people will get this, but it's not the type of karate that wins fights, it's the fighter. Who uses what they have the best. Play to your strengths and limit your weaknesses.

edit: it's like people care more about Kawhi winning the MVP more than doing what's best for the team and his career.

[Fireball]

i just read that LMA is scoring more efficient than he ever has ... I never cared about Kawhi winning MVP ... I am fine if he is focusing more on defense than offense ... hopefully we will find out what happens „sooner rather than later“:claw

[YGWHI]

edit: it's like people care more about Kawhi winning the MVP more than doing what's best for the team and his career.
At this point, no one cares about that...Kawhi lost the award when missed more than 13 games in the season.

But if you want the Spurs to win in playoffs, LMA can't be the offensive leader. Kawhi's way better at P&Rs which was Spurs' money last season. Also, efficency matters.

If you don't believe me, just think why OKC lost the five games where Russ didn't shoot over .35%...

The best and most efficient scorer has to be the #1 option, Kawhi proved he's the most efficient scorer against elite teams, we can't say the same about LMA. Plain and simple.

I can't believe we're having this types of discussions in 2017 after last two Kawhi's seasons. Just on ST.

[YGWHI]

i just read that LMA is scoring more efficient than he ever has ...
Even being more efficient than ever, if you look at the numbers, he's still less efficient than Kawhi.

[YGWHI]

Thunder 0-6 vs. West.

I never thought they could play that bad...They're the worst 2nd-half team in the league.

I doubt it's an issue of chemistry, it's more a personnel problem. They won't beat any decent team with Melo at 4.

932816021924302848

If everyone can stay healthy the rest of regular season...

1-GSW
2-Spurs
3-Rockets
...
6/7-Thunder

[DAF86]

Actually think the Spurs would beat the Rockets in a rematch tbh; just don't think CP0 adds a new dimension to them. In fact, the additions of PJ Tucker and Luc Mbah a Moute worry me more. Much more worried about the likes of the Thunderefs, T'Pups, Guests, and Pels.

So you are all gloom and doom about the Spurs except on the one thing you should be worried about? :lol

Paul has always killed us and will continue to kill us.

Last season we beat Houston by shutting down the 3pt line and the paint. And we did that by giving them all the time and space in the World on the midrange zone. Give all that time and space to Paul and he will kill you one midrange jumper after another.

[Robz4000]

So you are all gloom and doom about the Spurs except on the one thing you should be worry about? :lol

Paul has always killed us and will continue to kill us.

Last season we beat Houston by shutting down the 3pt line and the paint. And we did that by giving them all the time and space in the World on the midrange zone. Give all that time and space to Paul and he will kill you one midrange jumper after another.

Good, let him fill up on midrange jumpers. Takes the ball out of Harden's hands.

[Robz4000]

Also, it wasn't CP0 that killed the Spurs but that same double screen at the top of the key play with CP0/Griffin/DeMonkey that killed the Spurs. Houston doesn't have the personnel to run it.

[YGWHI]

Good, let him fill up on midrange jumpers. Takes the ball out of Harden's hands.

I guess that's exactly what the Rockets need in close playoffs games...

[YGWHI]

Also, it wasn't CP0 that killed the Spurs but that same double screen at the top of the key play with CP0/Griffin/DeMonkey that killed the Spurs.

However, I agree with this. Pop never found an answer to solve the high-double-screen issue.

Went with injured Parker over Patty in a series where he had the hot-hand was a big mistake too.

[Robz4000]

I guess that's exactly what the Rockets need in close playoffs games...

I'll take CP0 shooting in close playoff games tbh, he's had a lot of success in the past afterall...

[DAF86]

Good, let him fill up on midrange jumpers. Takes the ball out of Harden's hands.

It depends on which Harden you are talking about, tbh. RS Harden or playoffs Harden.

[DAF86]

I'll take CP0 shooting in close playoff games tbh, he's had a lot of success in the past afterall...

Against the Spurs he has.

[Robz4000]

It depends on which Harden you are talking about, tbh. RS Harden or playoffs Harden.

They're both different players in the regular season and postseason, but at this point Harden is the better player. CP0's ego won't let him accept that though so he can choke games away ala Westchimp. Realistically Houston should prolly not run any ISO at the end of games and just use what got them there if they wanna win, otherwise they'll prolly lose anyway.

[YGWHI]

I'll take CP0 shooting in close playoff games tbh, he's had a lot of success in the past afterall...
His last shot against Danny and Tim didn't look bad at all.

Anyway, the good thing is he's an injury-plagued 3 years older player...Between Harden's well-known inefficiency and this current version of CP3...I'm not worried about the Rockets.

[Robz4000]

Against the Spurs he has.

He's also deferred to the likes of Janero Pargo against the Spurs with his season on the line. The fact is he's 1-2 against the Spurs in the playoffs, and it took having a massive matchup advantage/talent advantage to beat them the one time he did.

[DAF86]

Kawhi has an overuse disease. He'll need a lighter load to ensure he has a long productive career. The thing about Kawhi is that he is an efficient one on one scorer. He's still not great passing out the double team. He's been improving out the pnr but imo LMA would be best suited as a workhorse threat, taking a bulk of the possessions through quarters 1-3, running the offense through him, and having Leonard close. I've been saying for a long time, Kawhi doesn't need the ball to score. He can shoot threes, board, and he gets steals. It's not hard for him to get points. But to keep LMA going throughout the game and in rhythm in the fourth and lighten the load on Kawhi with him closing would be the wisest play imo.

Having the offense overly reliant on Kawhi is not good for the team. Right now there is a balance forming and we are getting great production from lots of players. Say what you want about LMA but his passing out the double team is greatly improved and he is borderline dominant in the post. He's a problem. People will argue that going through the post is not a good way to initiate the offense but it really comes down to how efficient we are at it. I'm not sure how many people will get this, but it's not the type of karate that wins fights, it's the fighter. Who uses what they have the best. Play to your strengths and limit your weaknesses.

edit: it's like people care more about Kawhi winning the MVP more than doing what's best for the team and his career.

You do realize thay we have been one of the worst offenses on this start of the season right?

That fact gets hidden behind the fact that we have been somewhat succesful feasting on a very weak schedule. But the offense is crap right now. We are nowhere close to contender level on that side of the floor and it mainly is because we have been lacking our best offensive player, and one of the best 3 players in the World, tbh.

[DAF86]

He's also deferred to the likes of Janero Pargo against the Spurs with his season on the line. The fact is he's 1-2 against the Spurs in the playoffs, and it took having a massive matchup advantage/talent advantage to beat them the one time he did.

Sure he had a huge talent advantage playing alongside folks that are a lottery team without him, and against the '14 defending champions.

BTW, how's that "the Spurs aren't playoffs material" prediction going?

[Robz4000]

Sure he had a huge talent advantage playing alongside folks that are a lottery team without him, and against the '14 defending champions.

BTW, how's that "the Spurs aren't playoffs material" prediction going?

Injuries to other teams tbh, but their younger players (most notably Fathead and Forbes) have really impressed. Still pretty confident they'll struggle against most of the other potential WC playoff teams.

Clippers are a lottery team due to Doc Rivers and his nepotism on top of their own injury issues, and let's be real: that 2014/15 team was nowhere near what the previous year's team was capable of (on top of being injured).

Btw, what happened to that Argie reporter's claim Kiwi would be back during that homestand?

[DAF86]

Injuries to other teams tbh, but their younger players (most notably Fathead and Forbes) have really impressed. Still pretty confident they'll struggle against most of the other potential WC playoff teams.

Clippers are a lottery team due to Doc Rivers and his nepotism on top of their own injury issues, and let's be real: that 2014/15 team was nowhere near what the previous year's team was capable of (on top of being injured).

Btw, what happened to that Argie reporter's claim Kiwi would be back during that homestand?

I don't know. I just passed along what he said. It wasn't my opinion nor something that I made up, tbh.

[SAGirl]

I don't know. I just passed along what he said. It wasn't my opinion nor something that I made up, tbh.
That injury reminds me of Splitter’s calf issue and back... just inexplicable and Pop never knew when he’d be back. I am worried.

[spursistan]

Thunder got wrecked by the Magic who were on a 9-game losing streak :lol..

I have seen enough: this team has shades of 2013 Lakers..The combination of characters and game styles of their Big3 + Donovan's simplistic schemes and lack of clout makes me skeptical they will ever turns it around.

[spursistan]

936038666954297346

[spursistan]

Thunder are just awful..And please no one come up to me with the muck-up-the-game argument for this one :lol...

They look like a one-and-done, low-seeded team in the WesT.

[SAGirl]

Thunder are just awful..And please no one come up to me with the muck-up-the-game argument for this one :lol...

They look like a one-and-done, low-seeded team in the WesT.
They are awful. This is looking so far like the worst version of the Thunder in many seasons ....

[Stabula]

So which is worse Thunder 2017-2018 or Brooklyn Nets 2013-2014

[SuperCam]

dynasty warriors
.
clutch city
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
spurms with kiwi
.
.
.
.
rest of shitty west teams, tbh



3rd seed locked up, spur can coast until the 2nd round :tu