Aldridge ball is not winning ball

[Phenomanul]

If we're in early 2.000's. And if that big is Tim Duncan.

But in 2018 if the big is LMA and the wing-iso is Kawhi or KD, I have any doubt about that a wing should be the first option in today NBA.




Spurs defense is hiding many problems. Because being 17th on offense means being a non-playoffs team.

It's not the same offense that won 67 games last year with a fairly decent average margin of victory? The answer is no, because it's missing Kawhi. When Kawhi returns, however, the offense shouldn't flounder as much.

[DAF86]

OSOB Duncan in 2013 almost won a FMVP. Prime Duncan and LMA and Kawhi easily 3peet.

Yeah, but not by playing on the post. In 2013 most of Duncan's offense came from pick and rolls, pick and pops and cuts. In fact, I talked, in one of the first posts of the thread, about wanting Aldridge to mold his game a bit to that 2013 Duncan.

[spurraider21]

In the all-time rankings, CP > LA

Right now, LA > CP

One is a 2018 all-star, the other is not.
chris paul has missed like 20 games :lol... he's still a better player than LMA

[MannyIsGod]

Are folks here really such butthurt homers that can't understand what I'm trying to say? :lol

No, you just keep doubling down on a stupid thread. No, LMA is not Lebron or Kevin Durant. Thanks for pointing that out.

[DAF86]

No, you just keep doubling down on a stupid thread. No, LMA is not Lebron or Kevin Durant. Thanks for pointing that out.

Acussing me of coming up with something stupid and then saying retarded shit like that. :lol

You don't have to be Lebron or Durant to play winning ball, tbh.

[MannyIsGod]

No, but you have to be Kawhi, Durant, or Lebron to be a forward capable of leading their team to the championship which is the bar you set on page one. Your bar for this thread, not mine. You defined it as championship winning ball. You can't even keep your own bullshit straight.

[DAF86]

No, but you have to be Kawhi, Durant, or Lebron to be a forward capable of leading their team to the championship which is the bar you set on page one. Your bar for this thread, not mine. You defined it as championship winning ball. You can't even keep your own bullshit straight.

See that you didn't get what I was trying to say? :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I'm talking about championship level winning basketball. The kind of winning basketball we Spurs fans are accostumed to.


What I'm saying is that no team will ever win a championship with Aldridge as a top option (that means getting around 30-40 touches per game). His style just doesn't match the current style needed in the NBA right now to win a championship.

[DAF86]

Top option =/= "leading" option

[MannyIsGod]

Your complaint that we won't win if we have to have LMA as our highest usage guy is a pretty "no shit" statement. Like I said, he's not Lebron or Durant. Luckily, that's not his role on this team. You know that, yet you made this thread why? To enlighten everyone that we're not going to win if Kawhi isn't playing at MVP levels? Wow thanks.

LMA's game is great for a team if he's playing as well as he is now. He's being post up because he has to create right now. But a jump shooting big that is able to play the PnR well is a great second option and I don't understand why you don't think that's his primary role on this team when its healthy.

This thread is just stupid.

[DAF86]

Your complaint that we won't win if we have to have LMA as our highest usage guy is a pretty "no shit" statement. Like I said, he's not Lebron or Durant. Luckily, that's not his role on this team. You know that, yet you made this thread why? To enlighten everyone that we're not going to win if Kawhi isn't playing at MVP levels? Wow thanks.

LMA's game is great for a team if he's playing as well as he is now. He's being post up because he has to create right now. But a jump shooting big that is able to play the PnR well is a great second option and I don't understand why you don't think that's his primary role on this team when its healthy.

This thread is just stupid.

Again, not getting it. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

Top option =/= "leading" option

See, this is you just doubling down on stupid. Feel free to continue, but there's a reason that you're getting called out by everyone in this thread and its not because everyone else is being stupid.

You're better than this and you know it but you jut keep doubling down. Have fun I guess.

[jyra]

LMA really needs to work with TD on being able to find the open man on the weak side when the help comes on his post ups. He almost always passes to the next closest guy which makes it much easier for the defense to set up their rotations.

[MannyIsGod]

Again, not getting it. :lol

K. I'm not getting it then.

[SAGirl]

LMA really needs to work with TD on being able to find the open man on the weak side when the help comes on his post ups. He almost always passes to the next closest guy which makes it much easier for the defense to set up their rotations.
definitely.
I think that is the bigger problem and reason why he has TO out of the post... he seeks to pass out of double teams but he passes are very predictable and easily picked off.

there could be more cutting but the man is not a good passer finding guys on the move... overall.. there are things that can't be taught.

[DAF86]

See, this is you just doubling down on stupid. Feel free to continue, but there's a reason that you're getting called out by everyone in this thread and its not because everyone else is being stupid.

You're better than this and you know it but you jut keep doubling down. Have fun I guess.

Do you want me to explain myself again? Ok, here it goes:

Of course we're not winning shit without Kawhi, everybody knows that.

And of course Aldridge isn't a number one guy on a championship team, I think everybody knows that too.

What I'm saying is that, even with Kawhi back to being the number one option, if Aldridge keeps getting a lot of touches, and in the way that he's getting them (42% frequency of postups), which is what I think most people here want and it's also what Pop and Aldridge will try to do, the team will still not be good enough to beat the Warriors, because the post up game is the least efficient play in basketball as proven by years and years of data.

What I want Aldridge and Pop to do is to tone it down with the inefficient post ups 18 feet from the basket and switch it up a bit more. Get more high low action, play more pick and roll, work more off the ball to find cuts that leads to easy baskets, etc.

The problem with that is that I don't see Aldridge accepting it, he would probably go back to pouting. Pop needs to show LA a film of how Duncan played in 2013 and tell him that you can still almost win finals MVP playing that way.

[Pavlov]

Oh, your theory is the Spurs' offense will be exactly the same when Kawhi and Rudy come back and everyone but you wants that.

OK.

[MannyIsGod]

IDGAF if the points come off post ups or open shots off a roll. I want LMA to play with the same efficiency he has now when Kawhi comes back. The Spurs probably don't have enough to be GS either way, but it sure as hell isn't on LMA if that is the case.

No, I don't want the Spurs to repeat the same mistakes they made with LMA again. If thats your point, then this thread is worse than I thought because you've learned nothing from last year. He's not 2013 Duncan and he never will be. And that's OK.

[DAF86]

Oh, your theory is the Spurs' offense will be exactly the same when Kawhi and Rudy come back and everyone but you wants that.

OK.

I tried to re-phrase my point in many different ways so that people can get it and I still get replays like these. And then I am the troll. :lol

BTW, these 10 k post to add to the other 100 k you had, Quite a life you have there ChumpDumper.

[Pavlov]

I tried to re-phrase my point in many different ways so that people can get it and I still get replays like these. And then I am the troll. :lolIt's what you said. It was a rehash of your OP plus some persecution/messiah complex.

I can see why you want to change the subject.

You called your shot. You declared yourself to be the only one with the answer that no one else will accept.

I think the offense will change when Kawhi comes back. That's my hot take.

[DAF86]

IDGAF if the points come off post ups or open shots off a roll. I want LMA to play with the same efficiency he has now when Kawhi comes back. The Spurs probably don't have enough to be GS either way, but it sure as hell isn't on LMA if that is the case.

No, I don't want the Spurs to repeat the same mistakes they made with LMA again. If thats your point, then this thread is worse than I thought because you've learned nothing from last year. He's not 2013 Duncan and he never will be. And that's OK.

I'm not saying don't involve Aldridge. I'm saying involve him in more efficient ways.

[DAF86]

It's what you said. It was a rehash of your OP plus some persecution/messiah complex.

I can see why you want to change the subject.

You called your shot. You declared yourself to be the only one with the answer that no one else will accept.

Sure son, whatever you say. I know that if I keep going you won't ever stop so you can have it your way, tbh. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

The problem isn't that LMA posting up. It's that posting up last year was way worse than it is this year. This year he's more than a tenth of a point better than he was last year on those plays. So, they just need to keep doing what they're doing this year when Kawhi gets back. Its already more efficient than it was last year and will only improve when he's got a healthy team with play makers around him.

A LaMarcus post up is more efficient than a Manu pick and roll. And no one here is arguing that Manu ball isn't winning ball.

[DAF86]

Fighting transition and 3 pointers with post ups and 18 foot fadeaway jumpers. :lol

[Chinook]

:lol Worrying about losing to D'Antoni in January

[Pavlov]

Fighting transition and 3 pointers with post ups and 18 foot fadeaway jumpers. :lolMost predictable bump in ST history.

[YGWHI]

Not true at all. 17th on offense + 2nd on defense = 3rd seed right now. A playoff team by definition.
I wonder what part of "the defense is hiding many Spurs problems" you didn't understand...Without that #2 on D, being 17th on offense means being a non-playoffs team.

Just look at the standings and tell me what other playoffs team is worse on offense than the Spurs...Just one, the Heat.

Basically if a team has a poor offensivenly...doesn't make the playoffs.

https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1

[YGWHI]

It's not the same offense that won 67 games last year with a fairly decent average margin of victory? The answer is no, because it's missing Kawhi. When Kawhi returns, however, the offense shouldn't flounder as much.

No. The answer is no, because Pop has made changes to involve LMA in the post a lot more after their summer-talks. Kawhi's return won't affect it.

A coach can use a big in many ways, LMA is a talented big, Pop could make him to get his points in many other ways...But posting-up with that frequency is just insane.

Again, the issue is LMA is posting-up 45% fq. I wonder why this is so hard to understand.

[YGWHI]

The problem isn't that LMA posting up. It's that posting up last year was way worse than it is this year. This year he's more than a tenth of a point better than he was last year on those plays.
Not really. Not against top-teams. LMA had a lot of great games against non-playoffs teams this season but against the top teams you couldn't see that efficiency or great performances.

But again, this isn't on LMA. It's on Pop. You can't post a big 45% and expect to win against elite teams. That won't happen. Not in 2018.

[YGWHI]

I'm not saying don't involve Aldridge. I'm saying involve him in more efficient ways.
Exactly

[YGWHI]

This notion that postup offense doesn't have a place in the modern game is just ignorant.
As main offense? I'd say it doesn't have a place. Not in 2018.

You can go big, you can use your bigs in many ways, you can post-up in some possessions, but making a post-up strategy the primary offensive option of a team? It's just ignorant.

[venitian navigator]

the point is that you can't play post up offense if you don't take advantage of a miss match...in the first quarter Harden was defending with success LMA and Gasol in post up situation...this simply can't happen. If it happens, blame your players, not the system...

[boutons_deux]

When Aldridge posts up, he too often bulls his way into traffic, leaving wide open teammates as 4-down spectators

iow, he needs to pass out more often. He's too much of a black hole.

Pop calls 4-down way too much. Tim has retired.

[tbdog]

We are not hitting our open looks. We probably lost 3 games down the stretch because of it.

[r0drig0lac]

No. The answer is no, because Pop has made changes to involve LMA in the post a lot more after their summer-talks. Kawhi's return won't affect it.

A coach can use a big in many ways, LMA is a talented big, Pop could make him to get his points in many other ways...But posting-up with that frequency is just insane.

Again, the issue is LMA is posting-up 45% fq. I wonder why this is so hard to understand.

is not difficult to understand, Pop has already said that he will be using Aldridge where he feels comfortable, where it does NOT work against teams that matter in the current nba, but people understand what they want to understand

[YGWHI]

is not difficult to understand, Pop has already said that he will be using Aldridge where he feels comfortable, where it does NOT work against teams that matter in the current nba, but people understand what they want to understand
:tu

[YGWHI]

Pop calls 4-down way too much. Tim has retired.
Couldn't agree more.

People here think that something that worked 15 years ago it's the right strategy now.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Couldn't agree more.

People here think that something that worked 15 years ago it's the right strategy now.

What type of offense should the Spurs run without Kawhi then? Who would you have as the main guy instead of Aldridge?

[YGWHI]

What type of offense should the Spurs run without Kawhi then? Who would you have as the main guy instead of Aldridge?
I think that LMA is talented enough offensivenly to involve him in other ways than posting-up 45% fq, don't you?

[dabom]

That harden new age offense looked great last year in the POs. :lol

[sasaint]

I'm not saying don't involve Aldridge. I'm saying involve him in more efficient ways.

The conundrum is that LMA wants his touches by posting up so that he can take his beloved fadeaways. He is resistant to reducing the percentage of post-ups. Those are guaranteed touches.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think that LMA is talented enough offensivenly to involve him in other ways than posting-up 45% fq, don't you?

Oh, sure he is, but the Spurs would need a good creator to set him up and they don't have that. He absolutely should be more involved in PnRs, both as a roll man or pick and pop, but his PnR partner is missing.

Aldridge's spot up and pull up shooting numbers aren't good. His post up scoring is better as a FG%, but also because he rarely turns the ball over in these situations compared to other players who post up a lot and on top of that it creates opportunities for the shooters on some inside-out action. Shooters haven't been great this season either, partially because of the worse spacing.

With the personnel the Spurs have right now, I don't see a better option as a primary offense than an Aldridge post up.

[YGWHI]

That harden new age offense looked great last year in the POs. :lol
Of course. Because D'Antoni extremism is the only one possible opposite to post-up main offense, right?

[dabom]

Of course. Because D'Antoni extremism is the only one possible opposite to post-up main offense, right?

Because our team is fully healthy right? :lol

[sasaint]

I think that LMA is talented enough offensivenly to involve him in other ways than posting-up 45% fq, don't you?

His talent isn't the issue. It's his willingness. Postups are guaranteed touches.

I inferred from all the LMA off-season brouhaha that it was precisely because of Pop's efforts to involve him in other ways that LMA was disenchanted. In all of Pop's mea culpas he said he was over-coaching LMA; so in their tête-à-tête Pop conceded to LMA, so that he could "just play his game" going forward.

[YGWHI]

Oh, sure he is, but the Spurs would need a good creator to set him up and they don't have that. He absolutely should be more involved in PnRs, both as a roll man or pick and pop, but his PnR partner is missing.
Parker can do it at some way but he's coming off the bench now. Other Pop's decision that favors posting-up with the SL.


Shooters haven't been great this season either, partially because of the worse spacing.
Some people said here Spurs' shooters had bad FG% last season because of Kawhi's high usage...Now, they have a bad shooting season again. I'd say this team doesn't have reliable shooters. That's all.


With the personnel the Spurs have right now, I don't see a better option as a primary offense than an Aldridge post up.
I didn't see Pop trying other things. I guess you don't know what will work or not if you don't try to change before.

[YGWHI]

Because our team is fully healthy right? :lol
When Kawhi comes back and LMA still post-up 45%.. I'll :lol hard

[YGWHI]

His talent isn't the issue. It's his willingness. Postups are guaranteed touches.

I inferred from all the LMA off-season brouhaha that it was precisely because of Pop's efforts to involve him in other ways that LMA was disenchanted. In all of Pop's mea culpas he said he was over-coaching LMA; so in their tête-à-tête Pop conceded to LMA, so that he could "just play his game" going forward.
Yes, that's why I mentioned their summer-talks. Sadly, it seems like it has to do a lot in how the offense looks now.

[dabom]

When Kawhi comes back and LMA still post-up 45%.. I'll :lol hard

That same player was the best player on the floor while harden was accused of throwing games. :lol

[sasaint]

When Kawhi comes back and LMA still post-up 45%.. I'll :lol hard

Exactly! It's either that or pouting. Either way it's just a matter of how frequently and how much will he disappear. How's LMA doing in crunch time of close games this season without Kawhi?

[sasaint]

Yes, that's why I mentioned their summer-talks. Sadly, it seems like it has to do a lot in how the offense looks now.

Bingo!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

When people say he's posting up 45% of the time, I'm not sure they realize it's 45% of his own FGA, not 45% of the team's FGA while he's on the floor.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As main offense? I'd say it doesn't have a place. Not in 2018.

You can go big, you can use your bigs in many ways, you can post-up in some possessions, but making a post-up strategy the primary offensive option of a team? It's just ignorant.

Nice strawman and glaring oversimplification. Of course you have to be able to hit the 3 to win nowadays.

If the post up forces a double team -our's does- then cutters and spacing can get layups and wide open 3's. LBJ and Durant have their most efficient scoring out of postups because of this dynamic. We are just not executing well enough out of double teams. Shore that up and combine that with pnr and postups from Kawhi and you have the nucleus of a potent offense.

No one is advocating a one trick pony. It doesn't matter what that trick is it is going to fail.

[SAGirl]

the point is that you can't play post up offense if you don't take advantage of a miss match...in the first quarter Harden was defending with success LMA and Gasol in post up situation...this simply can't happen. If it happens, blame your players, not the system...
That was the terrible start, the TO didn’t help. They got better in the 2nd half specially Aldridge bc he went to his move quickly. Holding the ball agains swarming defenses is a recipe for TO.

[SAGirl]

We are not hitting our open looks. We probably lost 3 games down the stretch because of it.
That’s true. Several 3 pt shooters have been slumping.

[SAGirl]

His talent isn't the issue. It's his willingness. Postups are guaranteed touches.

I inferred from all the LMA off-season brouhaha that it was precisely because of Pop's efforts to involve him in other ways that LMA was disenchanted. In all of Pop's mea culpas he said he was over-coaching LMA; so in their tête-à-tête Pop conceded to LMA, so that he could "just play his game" going forward.
I agree with your interpretation. I deduced the same.

[DAF86]

The problem isn't that LMA posting up. It's that posting up last year was way worse than it is this year. This year he's more than a tenth of a point better than he was last year on those plays. So, they just need to keep doing what they're doing this year when Kawhi gets back. Its already more efficient than it was last year and will only improve when he's got a healthy team with play makers around him.

A LaMarcus post up is more efficient than a Manu pick and roll. And no one here is arguing that Manu ball isn't winning ball.

No, it's not; actually.

Aldridge post ups: 45.8 FG% - 45.8 EFG%
Manu pick and roll: 54.6 FG% - 60 EFG%

[MultiTroll]

Aldridge fade away clanks often result in easy transition 2 for the opponent. Especially runners like Houston.
When you have non defenders like Fatty Mills and Parker to defend while Kwa is on the bench, forgettaboutit.

2-8 Mills and 0-6 on treys
2-8 GNob with 3 turnovers
1-5 Bertie

[SAGirl]

No, it's not; actually.

Aldridge post ups: 45.8 FG% - 45.8 EFG%
Manu pick and roll: 54.6 FG% - 60 EFG%
But this is why Manu much as we love him only patches things up like a band aid.
He can’t carry your team at this stage. He can only do so in short spurts and a few minutes at a time, this why Pop still runs PNR with mills who is terrible at it and why everyone else from DIjon, Danny, Kyle etc even Forbes runs them too when the ball swings and they aren’t as good as Manu is. They can give you flashes too but not enough consistency to go through them every time.

And Tony who is a fine PNR player has been in a slump himself and is a bench player right now (and not a very good one since he’s slumping)...

[DAF86]

But this is why Manu much as we love him only patches things up like a band aid.
He can’t carry your team at this stage. He can only do so in short spurts and a few minutes at a time, this why Pop still runs PNR with mills who is terrible at it and why everyone else from DIjon, Danny, Kyle etc even Forbes runs them too when the ball swings and they aren’t as good as Manu is. They can give you flashes too but not enough consistency to go through them every time.

And Tony who is a fine PNR player has been in a slump himself and is a bench player right now (and not a very good one since he’s slumping)...

Oh, for sure. I'm not saying Manu should be getting more touches. His efficiency would plummet if that was the case. I'm just proving how much of an inefficient play the post up is by comparing the post ups of an all-star player to the pick and rolls of a 40 year old.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

No, it's not; actually.

Aldridge post ups: 45.8 FG% - 45.8 EFG%
Manu pick and roll: 54.6 FG% - 60 EFG%

Manu pick and roll Points Per Possession : 0.94
Aldridge post up Points Per Possession : 0.96

Not sure why you're using FG% for this. There are turnovers, going to the free throw line possibilities, etc.

[DAF86]

Manu pick and roll Points Per Possession : 0.94
Aldridge post up Points Per Possession : 0.96

Not sure why you're using FG% for this. There are turnovers, going to the free throw line possibilities, etc.

And there's also assists. Those 0.94 and 0.96 are the pts the player (not the team) score per each of that play they perform.

And in any case, again, 0.94 40 year old vs 0.96 all-star. A virtual tie, when that shouldn't be the case.

[SAGirl]

Oh, for sure. I'm not saying Manu should be getting more touches. His efficiency would plummet if that was the case. I'm just proving how much of an inefficient play the post up is by comparing the post ups of an all-star player to the pick and rolls of a 40 year old.
True but bc of the personnel they have they can’t do more. As you said Manu can’t do them too much. Tony can’t and shouldn’t for more than a few opportunities either. And everyone else is a developing player which means you give opportunities to everyone and stick with the hot hand. The default is going to Aldridge. He’s always going to get his post up touches Tim got them too tbh, even past his prime but it wasn’t that frequent bc the team had great perimeter playmakers. This team right now doesn’t. They need Kiwi back and to look at themselves in the mirror this summer. I think right now they are doing the best they can with the guys available and the current level of play of young guards like Dijon and Forbes.

[DAF86]

True but bc of the personnel they have they can’t do more. As you said Manu can’t do them too much. Tony can’t and shouldn’t for more than a few opportunities either. And everyone else is a developing player which means you give opportunities to everyone and stick with the hot hand. The default is going to Aldridge. He’s always going to get his post up touches Tim got them too tbh, even past his prime but it wasn’t that frequent bc the team had great perimeter playmakers. This team right now doesn’t. They need Kiwi back and to look at themselves in the mirror this summer. I think right now they are doing the best they can with the guys available and the current level of play of young guards like Dijon and Forbes.

I agree with all of that, tbh.

[Slippy]

Oh, sure he is, but the Spurs would need a good creator to set him up and they don't have that. He absolutely should be more involved in PnRs, both as a roll man or pick and pop, but his PnR partner is missing.

Aldridge's spot up and pull up shooting numbers aren't good. His post up scoring is better as a FG%, but also because he rarely turns the ball over in these situations compared to other players who post up a lot and on top of that it creates opportunities for the shooters on some inside-out action. Shooters haven't been great this season either, partially because of the worse spacing.

With the personnel the Spurs have right now, I don't see a better option as a primary offense than an Aldridge post up.

In the second half spurs went away from lamarcus postup. It was motion & pnr offense mainly . Problem is theres only 2 players aged 35 plus that know to run it wirh their bigs. Doesnt help they are just role players now.

Strange bump by OP.. Spurs adjusted to what he wants in second half & stil failed. Also keeps ignoring spurs
missing 2 key players that would change the dynamic of their offense bigtime. Conclusion , he doesnt understand the game or didnt watch it.

[MannyIsGod]

And there's also assists. Those 0.94 and 0.96 are the pts the player (not the team) score per each of that play they perform.

And in any case, again, 0.94 40 year old vs 0.96 all-star. A virtual tie, when that shouldn't be the case.

Do you have a source for that? That's not my understanding of the stat.

[weeks]

relative to the rest of the league we're winning.
we won last year in the playoffs til we hit one of the greatest teams of all time. we had good position to steal the first game, when our mvp went down.
i feel frustrated, not fatalistic. big if at this point, but IF we can get gay back at full strength, kawhi 100%, lma continuing to put in the work...i like our chances as much as anyone's vs state

rockets? everything the rockets do, the dubs do better. harden and paul are playoff chokers until proven otherwise, period.
okc? first season together and they suddenly get it together enough to put down the warriors? with westchuck? the same guy who threw up that retarded 3 in game 6 2014?
timbs? seriously?

[SAGirl]

959595026438221824

[DAF86]

In the second half spurs went away from lamarcus postup. It was motion & pnr offense mainly . Problem is theres only 2 players aged 35 plus that know to run it wirh their bigs. Doesnt help they are just role players now.

Strange bump by OP.. Spurs adjusted to what he wants in second half & stil failed. Also keeps ignoring spurs
missing 2 key players that would change the dynamic of their offense bigtime. Conclusion , he doesnt understand the game or didnt watch it.

We won the second half by 5 points after getting killed by 16 in the first. A 21 pts turnaround. :lmao

[Slippy]

We won the second half by 5 points after getting killed by 16 in the first. A 21 pts turnaround. :lmao

You still dont get it. Spurs lost the game . The type of offense you calling for is not possible if the personall available cant maximize their best player on the acive roster right now. That's what happened in the second half.

[Slippy]

The way Tony & manu were able utilise LA against Utah is what im talking about but spurs depending on two aging playmakers & couldn't get stops.

[weeks]

The way Tony & manu were able utilise LA against Utah is what im talking about but spurs depending on two aging playmakers & couldn't get stops.

they're the only two guards with any sort of competence at getting the ball to LMA in good position; a shame that they're on the way out of the NBA

[Slippy]

The sad part is i don't see their pnr game rubbing off on dj at all .

[weeks]

The sad part is i don't see their pnr game rubbing off on dj at all .

i'm not seeing the progression there i'd like. he still spends too much damn time on the perimeter. just hands the ball off at the top of the key and doesn't really put pressure on the defense

[DAF86]

You still dont get it. Spurs lost the game . The type of offense you calling for is not possible if the personall available cant maximize their best player on the acive roster right now. That's what happened in the second half.

Dude, you said we used that type of offense on the second half and we won the second half. What more do you want? :lol

[Slippy]

Haha getting excited bout a second half score & stat. Too bad team won jackshit

[DAF86]

Haha getting excited bout a second half score & stat. Too bad team won jackshit

You were the one that brought it up. The fuck son? :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol This team would be playing for ping pong balls without "Aldridge ball"

I truly can't wait for the day we get the inevitable early playoff exit that we all saw coming the minute PATFO shat the bed in the offseason and this nigga comes in bumping his shit like nostradumbass talking about "I told you so"

[JFK]

:lol This team would be playing for ping pong balls without "Aldridge ball"

I truly can't wait for the day we get the inevitable early playoff exit that we all saw coming the minute PATFO shat the bed in the offseason and this nigga comes in bumping his shit like nostradumbass talking about "I told you so"

But but..Everything will be awesome if we win 50 games and still have made the playoffs. In Pop we trust.

[HarlemHeat37]

Aldridge is having a great year and he has clearly carried this poorly designed roster, but I don't know how anybody could believe that Aldridge ball can win anything, especially in today's NBA:lol

Not only is his scoring style questionable, but he's also horrendous at handling double teams and swarming defense..going from Duncan, Splitter and Diaw as passing bigs to Aldridge has been one of the most painful transitions into this era of Spurs basketball..

[weeks]

Yeah I got love for our Touches and mad respect but Harlem is correct as usual. Dude is fkn terrible with the double teams. He's actually a bad passer all around imo.

[spurraider21]

Aldridge is having a great year and he has clearly carried this poorly designed roster, but I don't know how anybody could believe that Aldridge ball can win anything, especially in today's NBA:lol

Not only is his scoring style questionable, but he's also horrendous at handling double teams and swarming defense..going from Duncan, Splitter and Diaw as passing bigs to Aldridge has been one of the most painful transitions into this era of Spurs basketball..
of course aldridge ball isn't going to win a championship :lol

this team is designed to win around kawhi... but given kawhi's unavailability, its the only way this team is going to win games on a consistent basis. he's holding the fort, #3 seed, etc.

[DAF86]

of course aldridge ball isn't going to win a championship :lol

this team is designed to win around kawhi... but given kawhi's unavailability, its the only way this team is going to win games on a consistent basis. he's holding the fort, #3 seed, etc.

And who said anything about him not being able to hold the forth during the regular season? That's obviously not the type of "winning" I was referring to, and I think I stated that pretty clearly.

[spurraider21]

And who said anything about him not being able to hold the forth during the regular season? That's obviously not the type of "winning" I was referring to, and I think I stated that pretty clearly.
because this is just beating the dead horse that the spurs without their best player, and over-relying on their second best player, aren't going to win anything in the postseason

[DAF86]

because this is just beating the dead horse that the spurs without their best player, and over-relying on their second best player, aren't going to win anything in the postseason

No. My point is that if the Spurs keep feeding LA close to 30 from 40 touches on the post (which is the idea according to both Pop and LA even when Kawhi comes back) we are never going to win shit, even with a 100% roster.

[spurraider21]

No. My point is that if the Spurs keep feeding LA close to 30 from 40 touches on the post (which is the idea according to both Pop and LA even when Kawhi comes back) we are never going to win shit, even with a 100% roster.
yeah and if you think there's going to be no adjustment when kawhi comes back and he's just going to assume the kyle anderson role, then maybe you have a point

[DAF86]

yeah and if you think there's going to be no adjustment when kawhi comes back and he's just going to assume the kyle anderson role, then maybe you have a point

Why make something so ridiculous up? Why can't you argue like a normal person? :lol

Of course Kawhi is not going to assume the Kyle role, but if you think LA's touches will decrease substantially you are mistaken. It's not like we haven't seen two players with heavy usages on the same team before.

[spurraider21]

Why make something so ridiculous up? Why can't you argue like a normal person? :lol

Of course Kawhi is not going to assume the Kyle role, but if you think LA's touches will decrease substantially you are mistaken. It's not like we haven't seen two players with heavy usages on the same team before.
LMA's usage always goes up when kawhi is out and goes down when kawhi plays. in the 9 games that kawhi played this year, even when he was clearly physically limited, he had a usage rate of 30.8. his usage last year was 31.1

on the other hand, in a season without kawhi, LMA's usage is up from 24.5 to 28.4 (comparing last season to this year). obviously with kawhi out the team has gone all-in on LMA. there wasn't really another choice. i really dont understand your point. you like like high usage LMA. none of us do, but thats all we have with kawhi out

[r0drig0lac]

of course aldridge ball isn't going to win a championship :lol

this team is designed to win around kawhi... but given kawhi's unavailability, its the only way this team is going to win games on a consistent basis. he's holding the fort, #3 seed, etc.

I disagree, this team wins because of Kawhi's talent and spurs system, but it was not built to maximize Kawhi Leonard

[spurraider21]

I disagree, this team wins because of Kawhi's talent and spurs system, but it was not built to maximize Kawhi Leonard
floor spacing bigs to give kawhi room to operate in the post (LMA, Gasol, Bertans). defensive length on the perimeter to optimize ability to switch around (Dijon, Green, Kyle, Gay)...

of course the spurs are limited to build an ideal roster because they can't attract names like GSW or LeBron are able to, but i think they've tried

[DAF86]

LMA's usage always goes up when kawhi is out and goes down when kawhi plays. in the 9 games that kawhi played this year, even when he was clearly physically limited, he had a usage rate of 30.8. his usage last year was 31.1

on the other hand, in a season without kawhi, LMA's usage is up from 24.5 to 28.4 (comparing last season to this year). obviously with kawhi out the team has gone all-in on LMA. there wasn't really another choice. i really dont understand your point. you like like high usage LMA. none of us do, but thats all we have with kawhi out

How many times do I need to say that this thread has nothing to do with Kawhi? It's just a comment about Aldridge's game style and the success that a team can have with him being a high usage player.

[spurraider21]

How many times do I need to say that this thread has nothing to do with Kawhi? It's just a comment about Aldridge's game style and the success that a team can have with him being a high usage player.
and how many times do i have to say this is an irrelevant point since this is kawhi's team? if lebron was out for the season, would it be worthwhile for cavs fans to discuss if Love-ball is winning ball? or if curry was knocked out a couple of years ago, for warriors fans to ask if thompson ball is winning ball. its just a useless point of discussion. tbh i wonder if rocketfans in the mid 90's were wondering if cassell-ball was winning ball when olajuwon missed games

[TimDunkem]

Points have to come from somewhere. Certaintly they're not all going to come from Kawhi, so that means you're going to see plenty of mid-range post-up fadeaway jumpers from LA, and that's not going to give you a great shot against the best teams.

Aldridge should become a more opportunistic scorer ala Old Timmy D, but that's just not who he is.

[spurraider21]

Points have to come from somewhere. Certaintly they're not all going to come from Kawhi, so that means you're going to see plenty of mid-range post-up fadeaway jumpers from LA, and that's not going to give you a great shot against the best teams.

Aldridge should become a more opportunistic scorer ala Old Timmy D, but that's just not who he is.
and with kawhi out, there isn't much in the way of reliable creators to give LMA those opportunistic looks

[Chinook]

What's really sinking the Spurs' plan is that Gasol can't score in the post. It's amazing how soft Pau is down there. Because he can't overwhelm power-forwards, it allows teams to hide guys on him. You get someone like Cousins (obviously pre-injury, though he should probably be fine in the post once he recovers) instead, and they'd crush almost every front court. Pau definitely has his pluses on offense with his passing, but there's little point in playing big when your center plays like he's five inches shorter than he is. It also doesn't help that he's shooting threes way less this year.

[daslicer]

What's really sinking the Spurs' plan is that Gasol can't score in the post. It's amazing how soft Pau is down there. Because he can't overwhelm power-forwards, it allows teams to hide guys on him. You get someone like Cousins (obviously pre-injury, though he should probably be fine in the post once he recovers) instead, and they'd crush almost every front court. Pau definitely has his pluses on offense with his passing, but there's little point in playing big when your center plays like he's five inches shorter than he is. It also doesn't help that he's shooting threes way less this year.

Agreed one thing I have observed this year is that Gasol can't post up guys anymore. He struggles to back down guys in the post and usually settles for an ugly fade away jumper. To me that's amazing since Gasol used to be a great post up player when he was with the Lakers.

[YGWHI]

floor spacing bigs to give kawhi room to operate in the post (LMA, Gasol, Bertans).
Not really, only Bertans is a floor spacing big. Gasol and LMA together is just the opposite of allowing penetrations from Spurs perimeter players.


of course the spurs are limited to build an ideal roster because they can't attract names like GSW or LeBron are able to, but i think they've tried
Some 3-points shooters were there...Eric Gordon was available two-three seasons a go. Others too.

Also, if they would want to build around Kawhi..I wonder where's the perimeter playmakers/shooters. This team needed it desperately but they opted to sign Pau and Mills.

[spurraider21]

the truly amazing thing about pau is that he opted out and we gave him 3 years. i dont understand the rationale behind any of that. were the spurs so desperate to shave a few million off their payroll for this season?

[barbacoataco]

Not really, only Bertans is a floor spacing big. Gasol and LMA together is just the opposite of allowing penetrations from Spurs perimeter players.


Some 3-points shooters were there...Eric Gordon was available two-three seasons a go. Others too.

Also, if they would want to build around Kawhi..I wonder where's the perimeter playmakers/shooters. This team needed it desperately but they opted to sign Pau and Mills.
Spurs would never have signed Eric Gordon based on the fact that he was an sshole in New Orleans and no one knew if he was injured or faking it.

[TimDunkem]

and with kawhi out, there isn't much in the way of reliable creators to give LMA those opportunistic looks

Completely agree. This team needs playmakers baaaadly.

[weeks]

and with kawhi out, there isn't much in the way of reliable creators to give LMA those opportunistic looks

yep timmy had some good entry passes from parker and manu, our current crop of guards suck balls at finding LMA in good position and every game they miss easy points unable to get it to him in a timely manner

patty especially has terrible court vision.

[lebomb]

This thread is bullshit........its like saying Lebron ball isnt winning ball, when they had a trash supporting cast. Its like saying Curry ball isnt winning ball if Durant were to suddenly have a season ending injury. A single person cannot do it alone.

[SAGirl]

What's really sinking the Spurs' plan is that Gasol can't score in the post. It's amazing how soft Pau is down there. Because he can't overwhelm power-forwards, it allows teams to hide guys on him. You get someone like Cousins (obviously pre-injury, though he should probably be fine in the post once he recovers) instead, and they'd crush almost every front court. Pau definitely has his pluses on offense with his passing, but there's little point in playing big when your center plays like he's five inches shorter than he is. It also doesn't help that he's shooting threes way less this year.
Pau HAS NOT been playing well lately. Not hating. Might be the weight he lost or just washed up time. Outside his passing, his scoring is becoming inefficient. I hope he can turn his own season around. I have enjoyed watching him in some of his better games. He crushed Portland bigs one game. He’s just too inconsistent. In fact that’s his last good/dominant game that I recall. When Pau has played well the Spurs have been in great positions to win. That’s rare. The losing skid has been characterized by bad Pau appearances.

I suppose with Gay and Kiwi back you need less of him. Gay is better in the post and iso situations if you want that in the bench. It’s just really questionable that with a fully healthy roster Pau is good value in that deal. It was predictable too.

If it wasn’t for all these injuries he might have had even less overall impact since the burden is shifted to others. He has been bad as of late. And he seems unplayable against up tempo teams unless he can punish them like he punished Portland. (A rare sighting)

[TimDunkem]

yep timmy had some good entry passes from parker and manu, our current crop of guards suck balls at finding LMA in good position and every game they miss easy points unable to get it to him in a timely manner

patty especially has terrible court vision.

This is why I don't really buy that we need another playmaking star per se. All the team needed to do was at least upgrade a few positions of need and the team would've been much better off.

I mean, is it that hard to find a reliable 3pt shooter with better vision than Mills? All that culture though, I guess...

[SAGirl]

the truly amazing thing about pau is that he opted out and we gave him 3 years. i dont understand the rationale behind any of that. were the spurs so desperate to shave a few million off their payroll for this season?
I am inclined to believe since they were trying to trade Lamarcus in the summer per his request that he was slated to be their best big (yuck) with them having been able to swing a trade for Irving or something to that effect. Lamarcus didn’t really make peace with Pop until after all options were exhausted. Still Spurs whiffing on everyone they wanted in the summer or what they wanted to accomplish not panning out ended up in 12:01 and Pau for 3 years.

[daslicer]

This thread is bullshit........its like saying Lebron ball isnt winning ball, when they had a trash supporting cast. Its like saying Curry ball isnt winning ball if Durant were to suddenly have a season ending injury. A single person cannot do it alone.

Take the best player off of a championship team and they will most likely be average to terrible. Imagine if Duncan missed a full season from '02-'07 how bad the Spurs would look with Manu and Tony. I feel a Manu-Tony team without Duncan even in that era would be a 30 win team.

[spurraider21]

Take the best player off of a championship team and they will most likely be average to terrible. Imagine if Duncan missed a full season from '02-'07 how bad the Spurs would look with Manu and Tony. I feel a Manu-Tony team without Duncan even in that era would be a 30 win team.
yeah its pops fault we lost in 2000. after duncan went down he should have known that robinson ball is not winning ball. didnt he learn from the 90's???

[Dex]

yep timmy had some good entry passes from parker and manu, our current crop of guards suck balls at finding LMA in good position and every game they miss easy points unable to get it to him in a timely manner

patty especially has terrible court vision.

Patty misses the passes that are there, and tries to force ones that aren't. The experiment on him being a passing guard have officially failed...he is a one-trick pony.

[weeks]

Patty misses the passes that are there, and tries to force ones that aren't. The experiment on him being a passing guard have officially failed...he is a one-trick pony.

shit, i wish he was a one trick pony
that's more tricks then he's got right now.

[callo1]

If Kawhi was healthy and LA was injured, you could flip the title of this thread around and the same would be true.

LaMarcus has done everything humanly possible to keep the Spurs in the 3rd seed. The guy is dealing with double teams, or partial double teams (guard digs) on a nightly basis.

LA on the offensive boards shows just how hard he is battling.

[YGWHI]

If Kawhi was healthy and LA was injured, you could flip the title of this thread around and the same would be true.

I doubt it. Kawhi will run P&Rs, will attack the rim, will draw fouls, will shoot 3's, will lead fast-breaks...He will post-up too but not 45% fq like LMA, just 7 maybe 8% like last year.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJuQsEiWkAIyn6F.jpg


The guy is dealing with double teams, or partial double teams (guard digs) on a nightly basis.
LMA wouldn't deal with double teams that often if he wouldn't stay immobile in the post almost half of his minutes on court waiting for an entry pass...

Again. It's not about LMA, I guess this thread is about a style of game but also about the poor way that Pop is using a this guy.

[YGWHI]

Spurs would never have signed Eric Gordon based on the fact that he was an ssh (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8668)ole in New Orleans and no one knew if he was injured or faking it.
Some teams take risks and win. Rockets did it. Also, Lou Williams wasn't injured, Gerald Green either. It's not like I really like these players but they're offensive role players, a team should have one or two of this type of player who can score +20 points if needed. I wonder who are true offensive role players on this Spurs team.

[DAF86]

and how many times do i have to say this is an irrelevant point since this is kawhi's team? if lebron was out for the season, would it be worthwhile for cavs fans to discuss if Love-ball is winning ball? or if curry was knocked out a couple of years ago, for warriors fans to ask if thompson ball is winning ball. its just a useless point of discussion. tbh i wonder if rocketfans in the mid 90's were wondering if cassell-ball was winning ball when olajuwon missed games

Emmh, yeah. Cavs fans should obviously discuss if Love as a second option is enough to win the championship.

And the question was even more relevant while Irving was there since he had practically the same usg% that Lebron had. In fact, the previous season Kyrie had a higher usg% than Lebron.

So yeah, of course folks should definitely discuss if their second options are enough to win championships, specially when they are so far ahead in terms of touches and usage to the number 3 option of the team. That shit isn't as important when the secondary option isn't as ball dominant (like with the Spurs in '14 or '03).

[DAF86]

This thread is bullshit........its like saying Lebron ball isnt winning ball, when they had a trash supporting cast. Its like saying Curry ball isnt winning ball if Durant were to suddenly have a season ending injury. A single person cannot do it alone.


If Kawhi was healthy and LA was injured, you could flip the title of this thread around and the same would be true.

LaMarcus has done everything humanly possible to keep the Spurs in the 3rd seed. The guy is dealing with double teams, or partial double teams (guard digs) on a nightly basis.

LA on the offensive boards shows just how hard he is battling.


op tell lamarcus how his ass taste

Smh, are folks in this place really so slow? :lol

Dudes hear this out: I'M NOT BLAMING LA FOR OUR CURRENT RECORD, I KNOW THAT WITHOUT HIM THE SPURS WOULD BE A LOTTERY TEAM RIGHT NOW. I'M JUST MAKING AN OBSERVATION OF HIS GAME IN GENERAL: HE IS POST UP DEPENDENT (THE LEAST EFFICIENT PLAY IN BASKETBALL), HE IS MIDRANGE DEPENDENT (THE LEAST EFFICIENT SHOT IN BASKETBALL) AND HE PAIRS ALL THAT WITH A TASTE FOR SOFT INEFFICIENT FADEAWAYS. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HIM HAVING TO STEP UP AS A 1ST OPTION WITH KAWHI INJURED, I'M LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE AND COMMENTING THAT, EVEN WHEN KAWHI IS BACK, LA AS A HIGH USAGE SECOND OPTION STILL WON'T BE ENOUGH TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS, BECAUSE HIS GAME STYLE JUST ISN'T EFFICIENT FOR TODAY'S NBA. STOP TALKING ABOUT KAWHI BEING INJURED AS IF I WAS BASING MY POINT ON THE FACT THAT THE SPURS AREN'T WINNING GAMES, BECAUSE THAT ISN'T THE CASE AT ALL.


Take the best player off of a championship team and they will most likely be average to terrible. Imagine if Duncan missed a full season from '02-'07 how bad the Spurs would look with Manu and Tony. I feel a Manu-Tony team without Duncan even in that era would be a 30 win team.

Firs of all, read above because that is for you too.

Second, that which you said right there is dumb. A Manu-Tony-Pop team would easily win 50+ games and make the playoffs. Spurs have a lifetime winning record of bigger than 60% without Duncan and that includes Manu-Tony less seasons. The winning % of the Spurs without Duncan on the Manu-Tony era is probably higher than that.

[Dre_7]

Again. It's not about LMA, I guess this thread is about a style of game but also about the poor way that Pop is using a this guy.

You are wrong, Pop tried to use him differently last year and all that did was take away his strengths and make him want a trade. Pop is using him how he should be used.

[DAF86]

You are wrong, Pop tried to use him differently last year and all that did was take away his strengths and make him want a trade. Pop is using him how he should be used.

And win 60+ games and make the WCF, but who cares right?

[Dre_7]

And win 60+ games and make the WCF, but who cares right?

Yeah and they are 3rd place this year WITHOUT Kawhi because of LMA. Imagine how good they will be with a better LMA and a healthy Kawhi. Last year's Aldridge is not what we want.

[DAF86]

Yeah and they are 3rd place this year WITHOUT Kawhi because of LMA. Imagine how good they will be with a better LMA and a healthy Kawhi. Last year's Aldridge is not what we want.

Hope we would be good enough to win a championship, but I doubt it.

[spurraider21]

yeah, last year aldridge was pretty pathetic. in part to do with his mental makeup, and in part with pop's usage of him. he deservedly missed the all-star team.

first option aldridge doing what he's doing this year is good enough for us to make playoffs and possibly win a round depending on the opponent. second option aldridge playing this well is probably good enough to win, but still unlikely given warriors god status tbh

i still think its a hilarious notion that having your second option become the de facto first option is not winning ball. no shit

[DAF86]

I still think its a hilarious notion that having your second option become the de facto first option is not winning ball. no shit

Dude, really? I thought you were smarter than this.

I don't know how else do I need to explain that the Spurs record this season is irrelevant to me. I'm not basing my argument on the win/loss column. I'm not even basing my argument on how well Aldridge is doing (fwiw, I think he has been great and is the biggest reason why the Spurs are in playoffs position right now). Heck, I even made this thread after a Spurs win in which Aldridge scored 30+.

I'm basing my argument on the style of play Aldridge has and what the numbers suggest about that playing style, which pretty much matches my idea about what is winning basketball in the NBA right now.

[spurraider21]

Dude, really? I thought you were smarter than this.

I don't know how else do I need to explain that the Spurs record this season is irrelevant to me. I'm not basing my argument on the win/loss column. I'm not even basing my argument on how well Aldridge is doing (fwiw, I think he has been great and is the biggest reason why the Spurs are in playoffs position right now). Heck, I even made this thread after a Spurs win in which Aldridge scored 30+.

I'm basing my argument on the style of play Aldridge has and what the numbers suggest about that playing style, which pretty much matches my idea about what is winning basketball in the NBA right now.
i agree that aldridge doing this as our first option is not a championship formula.

i think its hilarious to sit here discussing if aldridge doing this as our first option is or isn't a championship formula.

[daslicer]

Smh, are folks in this place really so slow? :lol

Dudes hear this out: I'M NOT BLAMING LA FOR OUR CURRENT RECORD, I KNOW THAT WITHOUT HIM THE SPURS WOULD BE A LOTTERY TEAM RIGHT NOW. I'M JUST MAKING AN OBSERVATION OF HIS GAME IN GENERAL: HE IS POST UP DEPENDENT (THE LEAST EFFICIENT PLAY IN BASKETBALL), HE IS MIDRANGE DEPENDENT (THE LEAST EFFICIENT SHOT IN BASKETBALL) AND HE PAIRS ALL THAT WITH A TASTE FOR SOFT INEFFICIENT FADEAWAYS. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HIM HAVING TO STEP UP AS A 1ST OPTION WITH KAWHI INJURED, I'M LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE AND COMMENTING THAT, EVEN WHEN KAWHI IS BACK, LA AS A HIGH USAGE SECOND OPTION STILL WON'T BE ENOUGH TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS, BECAUSE HIS GAME STYLE JUST ISN'T EFFICIENT FOR TODAY'S NBA. STOP TALKING ABOUT KAWHI BEING INJURED AS IF I WAS BASING MY POINT ON THE FACT THAT THE SPURS AREN'T WINNING GAMES, BECAUSE THAT ISN'T THE CASE AT ALL.



Firs of all, read above because that is for you too.

Second, that which you said right there is dumb. A Manu-Tony-Pop team would easily win 50+ games and make the playoffs. Spurs have a lifetime winning record of bigger than 60% without Duncan and that includes Manu-Tony less seasons. The winning % of the Spurs without Duncan on the Manu-Tony era is probably higher than that.

Wow the Manutard with another retarded response. Duncan didn't miss that many games ever in a season. The most he's ever missed prior to his last season was 16 games. That's such a small sample size to being going by to make your wild claim that they could win 50 games with Manu-Tony. Also you can manipulate the stats to your advantage if we don't look at it closely. For example Duncan missed 21 games his last season but it didn't matter since he was washed up that year and the Spurs had a prime Kawhi and LMA so of course they would have a great record without him that year. Also have to factor in Pop resting Duncan against garbage teams in which it was a given the Spurs could win without him during the Manu-Tony era. Another way you manipulate stats is by saying the Spurs had a great record without Duncan even before the Manu-Tony era. That sound impressive until you find out that Duncan only missed 8 games in that era and it happened during the '00 season. Obviously that Spurs team could play great in 8 games without Tim since they had an all-star in Robinson but if they had to play a full season without Tim that team is not winning 50 games. In fact that team finished with 53 wins for that season. Take Duncan off of that team for a full year and they don't get 50.

Spurs had good records without Duncan in short stretches but I doubt they would have a great record without him for a full year. It's very difficult to maintain a high level of play for whole entire year without your superstar. In a short period of time a team can play at a high level without their superstar but eventually the league adjusts. The current Spurs started the season 19-8 without Kawhi in which they were winning 70 percent of their games. They were on pace to win 57 games. You had idiots in the media screaming and people on this forum and other forums that Kawhi was overrated and the Spurs didn't really need him. Now the Spurs are struggling and it doesn't look like they will get to 50. Teams have adjusted and figured out the Spurs schemes without Kawhi. The same thing would happened to the Spurs if they played a full season without Duncan.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

If Aldridge can continue to play at his current level WHEN Kawhii comes back, the Spurs will be in okay shape.

[DAF86]

i agree that aldridge doing this as our first option is not a championship formula.

i think its hilarious to sit here discussing if aldridge doing this as our first option is or isn't a championship formula.

I never said anything about Aldridge doing this as a first option. That's what you need to get through your head.

[DAF86]

Wow the Manutard with another retarded response. Duncan didn't miss that many games ever in a season. The most he's ever missed prior to his last season was 16 games. That's such a small sample size to being going by to make your wild claim that they could win 50 games with Manu-Tony. Also you can manipulate the stats to your advantage if we don't look at it closely. For example Duncan missed 21 games his last season but it didn't matter since he was washed up that year and the Spurs had a prime Kawhi and LMA so of course they would have a great record without him that year. Also have to factor in Pop resting Duncan against garbage teams in which it was a given the Spurs could win without him during the Manu-Tony era. Another way you manipulate stats is by saying the Spurs had a great record without Duncan even before the Manu-Tony era. That sound impressive until you find out that Duncan only missed 8 games in that era and it happened during the '00 season. Obviously that Spurs team could play great in 8 games without Tim since they had an all-star in Robinson but if they had to play a full season without Tim that team is not winning 50 games. In fact that team finished with 53 wins for that season. Take Duncan off of that team for a full year and they don't get 50.

Never said that. Read again, and read it well. No wonder people here don't get what I'm saying.


Spurs had good records without Duncan in short stretches but I doubt they would have a great record without him for a full year. It's very difficult to maintain a high level of play for whole entire year without your superstar. In a short period of time a team can play at a high level without their superstar but eventually the league adjusts. The current Spurs started the season 19-8 without Kawhi in which they were winning 70 percent of their games. They were on pace to win 57 games. You had idiots in the media screaming and people on this forum and other forums that Kawhi was overrated and the Spurs didn't really need him. Now the Spurs are struggling and it doesn't look like they will get to 50. Teams have adjusted and figured out the Spurs schemes without Kawhi. The same thing would happened to the Spurs if they played a full season without Duncan.

I agree with the premise that teams tend to hold the forth without its superstar for short periods of time. So if you want, we can take the whole "Spurs won 60+% of the games when Duncan didn't play" argument our of the way. You will still have a hard time getting people to agree with you on the idea of a Spurs team with three hall of famers on their primes (Pop, Manu and Tony) winning just 30 games. That's beyond retarded, tbh.

[daslicer]

Never said that. Read again, and read it well. No wonder people here don't get what I'm saying.



I agree with the premise that teams tend to hold the forth without its superstar for short periods of time. So if you want, we can take the whole "Spurs won 60+% of the games when Duncan didn't play" argument our of the way. You will still have a hard time getting people to agree with you on the idea of a Spurs team with three hall of famers on their primes (Pop, Manu and Tony) winning just 30 games. That's beyond retarded, tbh.

:lol Ahh shut the fuck up you dumbass Manutard. Down below is my original post that you responded to.


Take the best player off of a championship team and they will most likely be average to terrible. Imagine if Duncan missed a full season from '02-'07 how bad the Spurs would look with Manu and Tony. I feel a Manu-Tony team without Duncan even in that era would be a 30 win team.

Notice how your stupid ass did not bring up that I also mentioned the seasons before Manu-Tony's prime. Of course I believe the Spurs would not have won more than 30 games during the '02-'03 season if Duncan missed the whole entire year. Do you honestly believe rookie Manu and second year Parker could lead the Spurs to more than 30 wins? I feel the same way about the '03-'04 season because even during that season both Manu and Parker were not all-star caliber players. From '04-'07 without Tim I will actually admit I was wrong and they could win more than 30 games but their ceiling as a team is around 35-42 wins tops. They are still pretty shitty without Duncan and would miss the playoffs.

[Phenomanul]

Never said that. Read again, and read it well. No wonder people here don't get what I'm saying.



I agree with the premise that teams tend to hold the forth without its superstar for short periods of time. So if you want, we can take the whole "Spurs won 60+% of the games when Duncan didn't play" argument our of the way. You will still have a hard time getting people to agree with you on the idea of a Spurs team with three hall of famers on their primes (Pop, Manu and Tony) winning just 30 games. That's beyond retarded, tbh.

Yeah, pretty retarded.

Especially when you consider that Duncan's salary hold (in a hypothetical scenario where Duncan doesn't exist) would likely have been used to procure the services of an NBA caliber big.

Duncan is top-5 all-time and his intangibles, fundamentals, consistency and talent are not replaceable. But if both Manu's and Parker's usage rates had increased and Duncan had been replaced with a serviceable big there's no way they don't win at least 50 games. I don't necessarily think they would've rang (Duncan was absolutely necessary for that). But people seriously downplay how great Manu and Parker were from 2004 - 2010. There was that game in 2008 where Ginobili almost singlehandedly beat LeBron in his prime (46 points on 15/20 shots). A game where Ginobili outdueled both Ray Allen and Paul Pierce during Boston's brief stint at the top of the NBA. A game where Ginobili out-dueled Kobe. Etc... The point is that they had enough stellar gravities of their own but chose to (wisely I might add) play subserviently in schemes that featured the brightest star of all (Duncan).

daslicer basically equated Ginobili with the Kemba Walkers of the NBA. Good but not great. Parker with the Mario Chalmers of the NBA. Good but not great. No... Ginobili was winning everywhere else he played before pairing up with Duncan. Winning back-to-back Italian League MVPs, a Euroleague MVP. He led an unlikely dethroning of the US Men's National team from 2002 - 2006 (managing 4 victories against the U.S. culminating with a Gold Medal in 2004) - with great team play, but most of all, with Ginobili's talent, flair, and his unmatched competitive fire.

[SAGirl]

It’s become a 3 pt chucking league. That’s no indictment of Aldridge or anything.

You need volume 3 pt shooting bc you won’t be able to stop the barrage from GSW all the time. Those guys can have just one insane quarter and bury you unless you can somewhat keep up with a barrage of your own.

So it’s not an indictment on Lamarcus. GSW has been starting slow in terms of teams getting a lead on them in first halves. Spurs have been able to build leads against them each game even with their B/C squad. Many teams do the same. If you have someone on your team that can keep up when they come out with more intensity in the 3r Q and actually decide to play defense you can take them. Portland did it last night and Kiwi was on his way to steal game 1 on the road in the WCF. But you do need someone who is going to be a threat from 3 and off the dribble. A truly ungardable guy. That’s Kiwi.

[daslicer]

Yeah, pretty retarded.

Especially when you consider that Duncan's salary hold (in a hypothetical scenario where Duncan doesn't exist) would likely have been used to procure the services of an NBA caliber big.

Duncan is top-5 all-time and his intangibles, fundamentals, consistency and talent are not replaceable. But if both Manu's and Parker's usage rates had increased and Duncan had been replaced with a serviceable big there's no way they don't win at least 50 games. I don't necessarily think they would've rang (Duncan was absolutely necessary for that). But people seriously downplay how great Manu and Parker were from 2004 - 2010. There was that game in 2008 where Ginobili almost singlehandedly beat LeBron in his prime (46 points on 15/20 shots). A game where Ginobili outdueled both Ray Allen and Paul Pierce during Boston's brief stint at the top of the NBA. A game where Ginobili out-dueled Kobe. Etc... The point is that they had enough stellar gravities of their own but chose to (wisely I might add) play subserviently in schemes that featured the brightest star of all (Duncan).

daslicer basically equated Ginobili with the Kemba Walkers of the NBA. Good but not great. Parker with the Mario Chalmers of the NBA. Good but not great. No... Ginobili was winning everywhere else he played before pairing up with Duncan. Winning back-to-back Italian League MVPs, a Euroleague MVP. He led an unlikely dethroning of the US Men's National team from 2002 - 2006 (managing 4 victories against the U.S. culminating with a Gold Medal in 2004) - with great team play, but most of all, with Ginobili's talent, flair, and his unmatched competitive fire.

Yeah because it's really easy to get a good big man. Great job of deflecting with that comment. I'm speaking of the way the roster was set up and not some imaginary situation where they could get a big on the level of a young Pau Gasol. Your sighting a few games Manu held his own against the best and I have to say so what. Joe Ingles had a game where he dropped 30 on Kevin Durant this year, Parson had a game where he had 30 plus on Lebron a few years back. Prime Manu is clearly better than those two guys I mentioned but I doubt he could hold his own against prime Kobe, Pierce for a full 7 game series without Duncan's help. In fact with prime Duncan he never held his on with Kobe during the playoffs. It's very laughable when you said the spurs could increase Manu's usage rate. One of the biggest problems with Manu was that he never had the stamina to play a lot of minutes. Manu was only able to play 2 season in his career of 30 plus minutes. I actually believe Manu was fortunate to play for the Spurs because if he played for a coach like Thibs or D'Antoni his body would have broken down a lot faster due to playing heavy minutes.

Manu and Parker were not all-star caliber players their first 2 years in the league. They didn't reach all-star caliber levels until '04-'05. You don't win a lot of games in this league without all-star level players which both clearly were not during their first few years in the league. Take Duncan off of the '02-'03 spurs and '03-'04 Spurs they are 30 win caliber team. Now if you want go after '04-'10 I would say the Spurs ceiling with them without Tim would be 30-40 plus win team depending on the season. If it's '09-10 season that team is definitely only winning around 30 some games without Tim. If you go back to the NBA era of '00-'10 there was no team back then that had won 50 games with an all-star back court without having an all-star big to compliment the back court. The closet you get is the '02-'03 Pistons that won 50 games.

[Chinook]

I do think lumping Tim in with Manu and Tony to call them all "Hall-of-Famers" does sell Duncan short. He was an order of magnitude better than his co-stars. That said, I actually do believe the Spurs could have adjusted to losing Tim for a season and win a number of games, even in the playoffs. But that is a scenario where Tim tears his ACL in like June, and the team can prepare a whole summer for not having him. If that had happened with Kawhi, you would have seen a different Spurs team than the one you got this year as well. That's even more true in a scenario where Tim would be completely off the books all season, freeing up that money for someone else. Guys like Dave, Webber, Malone and O'Neal were options around that time, and any one of them would have made the Spurs a respectable playoff team. In that same way, I strongly doubt SA goes into the summer looking to reup Mills if they had a potential max slot available. A number of perimeter-oriented stars would have been available for trades or signings, and any of them added to this basic core would have solidified the Spurs as a second-tier playoff team.

However, both of those species of scenarios are fantasies. SA is dealing with a shit-ton of uncertainty over when or if Kawhi is going to be back. Not only has that prevented them for making an aggressive move to replace him, but it has hurt chemistry with all the waiting and dashed hopes. In a similar situation, I do think the team would have underperformed their potential had Tim been similarly unavailable. There wouldn't be any "serviceable" big to replace Duncan (have people forgotten that PAFTO failed to get a serviceable big to play NEXT to Duncan?). There would have just been a team with high-potential guards in a league where bigs still dominated. I don't know enough about the specific landscapes of the league those years to say exactly how well they'd do, but it probably wouldn't be an obvious 50 games. Tony and Manu are HoFers, but Tim was a GOAT candidate. It's disingenuous to put them on his level, and it's damned disrespectful to put Kawhi there by comparing the scenarios.

[DAF86]

:lol Ahh shut the fuck up you dumbass Manutard. Down below is my original post that you responded to.



Notice how your stupid ass did not bring up that I also mentioned the seasons before Manu-Tony's prime. Of course I believe the Spurs would not have won more than 30 games during the '02-'03 season if Duncan missed the whole entire year. Do you honestly believe rookie Manu and second year Parker could lead the Spurs to more than 30 wins? I feel the same way about the '03-'04 season because even during that season both Manu and Parker were not all-star caliber players. From '04-'07 without Tim I will actually admit I was wrong and they could win more than 30 games but their ceiling as a team is around 35-42 wins tops. They are still pretty shitty without Duncan and would miss the playoffs.

:lmao

[Phenomanul]

I do think lumping Tim in with Manu and Tony to call them all "Hall-of-Famers" does sell Duncan short. He was an order of magnitude better than his co-stars. That said, I actually do believe the Spurs could have adjusted to losing Tim for a season and win a number of games, even in the playoffs. But that is a scenario where Tim tears his ACL in like June, and the team can prepare a whole summer for not having him. If that had happened with Kawhi, you would have seen a different Spurs team than the one you got this year as well. That's even more true in a scenario where Tim would be completely off the books all season, freeing up that money for someone else. Guys like Dave, Webber, Malone and O'Neal were options around that time, and any one of them would have made the Spurs a respectable playoff team. In that same way, I strongly doubt SA goes into the summer looking to reup Mills if they had a potential max slot available. A number of perimeter-oriented stars would have been available for trades or signings, and any of them added to this basic core would have solidified the Spurs as a second-tier playoff team.

However, both of those species of scenarios are fantasies. SA is dealing with a shit-ton of uncertainty over when or if Kawhi is going to be back. Not only has that prevented them for making an aggressive move to replace him, but it has hurt chemistry with all the waiting and dashed hopes. In a similar situation, I do think the team would have underperformed their potential had Tim been similarly unavailable. There wouldn't be any "serviceable" big to replace Duncan (have people forgotten that PAFTO failed to get a serviceable big to play NEXT to Duncan?). There would have just been a team with high-potential guards in a league where bigs still dominated. I don't know enough about the specific landscapes of the league those years to say exactly how well they'd do, but it probably wouldn't be an obvious 50 games. Tony and Manu are HoFers, but Tim was a GOAT candidate. It's disingenuous to put them on his level, and it's damned disrespectful to put Kawhi there by comparing the scenarios.

I clearly stated that Duncan is what made the Spurs perennial contenders in my argument. To suggest that the team without him could still reach 50 wins doesn't sell him short at all. To suggest that they could've made deep playoff runs without him is what IMO would be selling him short.

I think the problem is that you are selling both Manu and Parker short.

daslicer said that teams with Manu and TP in their primes were good for only 30 win seasons... that statement is simply ridiculous.

Again, Ginobili (without Parker) did a lot of winning on his own. He led an Argentina squad with good but not great players (Nocioni, Oberto, Sanchez, Prigioni, Delfino, Scola) to accomplish more than anyone expected; he was clearly the star player. He consistently demonstrated the capacity to win.

In any hypothetical scenario where you remove Duncan from the team for entire seasons, I'm sure the Spurs would not have operated 20 million below the cap, just 'cause. It's not just Tony and Manu and scrubs... 20 million would've given the team serviceable bigs. Furthermore, the type of offense they shifted to after the Spurs moved away from '4 down' is likely what they would've run without a big of Duncan's interstellar gravitas. It would've been a higher pace offense.

[DAF86]

Llilard and McCullum, Jokic and Millsap, Dragic and Waiters, De rozan and Lowry. Just some of the pairings that will get more than 30 wins this season and make the playoffs. And that's without a hall of fame coach on the sidelines.

Thinking Manu and Tony on their primes wouldn't win more than 35/42 games. How fucking dumb do you have to be to believe such a thing? :lmao

[Chinook]

I clearly stated that Duncan is what made the Spurs perennial contenders in my argument.

I wasn't rebutting or supporting your specific argument. I was merely giving my theory on whether the Spurs could have been a competitive team without Tim during the first half of the Big Three era. 30 games is an extremely low bar for any not completely awful team, so I wouldn't assume the Spurs would fail to clear it even if Tim were exactly like Kawhi now. I'm not sure if they would have been as good as they've been this season, though.


In any hypothetical scenario where you remove Duncan from the team for entire seasons, I'm sure the Spurs would not have operated 20 million below the cap, just 'cause.

This is a big problem with your argument, though. Tim tearing up his knee and missing seasons doesn't give the team cap space to replace him. It definitely doesn't give them cash to do so. At best, they would have gotten a DPE for half his salary, and I'm not sure if a team that constantly dodged the tax like SA did during that time would have hopped over by that much. In a scenario completely disjointed from reality where Tim did come off the books, yes, they could have added to the rotation. But that's so far from a reasonable line of argument that it feels out of place in any thread pertaining to Aldridge or Leonard.

Tony and Manu were great and would become greater, but in the first few years of the Big Three era, it would have been harder for them to carry a team to the top half of the playoff bracket. The game was much friendlier to perimeter defenders and offensive big men then. If Tim were out the same way Kawhi is now, I don't think they would have made the waves their potential and future impact would suggest. You seem to be overlooking that this is the same era where Prime Kobe couldn't get to the playoffs without Shaq and/Pau. They'd win more than 30 games, but I don't think anyone would be talking about them for a top-five record in the league.

[Chinook]

Llilard and McCullum, Jokic and Millsap, Dragic and Waiters, De rozan and Lowry. Just some of the pairings that will get more than 30 wins this season and make the playoffs. And that's without a hall of fame coach on the sidelines.

Thinking Manu and Tony on their primes wouldn't win more than 35/42 games. How fucking dumb do you have to be to believe such a thing? :lmao

This is sort of hilarious given the entire premise of your thread. As much as Aldridge-ball isn't winning ball now, Manu-ball and Tony-ball would have struggled a dozen years ago. It's like you can't even keep up with your own "Today's era" argument.

[DAF86]

I wasn't rebutting or supporting your specific argument. I was merely giving my theory on whether the Spurs could have been a competitive team without Tim during the first half of the Big Three era. 30 games is an extremely low bar for any not completely awful team, so I wouldn't assume the Spurs would fail to clear it even if Tim were exactly like Kawhi now. I'm not sure if they would have been as good as they've been this season, though.



This is a big problem with your argument, though. Tim tearing up his knee and missing seasons doesn't give the team cap space to replace him. It definitely doesn't give them cash to do so. At best, they would have gotten a DPE for half his salary, and I'm not sure if a team that constantly dodged the tax like SA did during that time would have hopped over by that much. In a scenario completely disjointed from reality where Tim did come off the books, yes, they could have added to the rotation. But that's so far from a reasonable line of argument that it feels out of place in any thread pertaining to Aldridge or Leonard.

Tony and Manu were great and would become greater, but in the first few years of the Big Three era, it would have been harder for them to carry a team to the top half of the playoff bracket. The game was much friendlier to perimeter defenders and offensive big men then. If Tim were out the same way Kawhi is now, I don't think they would have made the waves their potential and future impact would suggest. You seem to be overlooking that this is the same era where Prime Kobe couldn't get to the playoffs without Shaq and/Pau. They'd win more than 30 games, but I don't think anyone would be talking about them for a top-five record in the league.

It is also the era where Ray Allen and Lewis made it to the second round. Where Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer made it to the WCF, where Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson beat a 60 something win Mavs.

Pop, Manu and Tony was more than enough to win around 50 games.

[DAF86]

This is sort of hilarious given the entire premise of your thread. As much as Aldridge-ball isn't winning ball now, Manu-ball and Tony-ball would have struggled a dozen years ago. It's like you can't even keep up with your own "Today's era" argument.

Except Tony's and, specially, Manu's ball was efficient ball for all eras.

[DAF86]

I mean, the fucking SSOL Phoenix Suns ran a fucking train over the entire league for two straight regular seasons. :lol

But good try son, I guess. :lol

[Phenomanul]

It is also the era where Ray Allen and Lewis made it to the second round. Where Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer made it to the WCF, where Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson beat a 60 something win Mavs.

Pop, Manu and Tony was more than enough to win around 50 games.

Add Parker to Manu's Argentina National Team squad and call them the Spurs... coached by Pop. NOW THAT would be an interesting hypothetical. Championship pretenders perhaps, but even they would've won more than 50 games.

I haven't even mentioned how Tony's one man fast break, and his tear drops were so efficiently deadly that opponents would literally game-plan against trying to stop him. And most teams failed to. Those two aspects of his game translate to ANY era.

[Chinook]

It is also the era where Ray Allen and Lewis made it to the second round. Where Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer made it to the WCF, where Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson beat a 60 something win Mavs.

Pop, Manu and Tony was more than enough to win around 50 games.

The Spurs were not the Warriors back then. During the first half of the Big Three era (02-03 to 08-09), Tim played 35 minutes at night, averaged 21/11/3 with three combined blocks and steals, carried a DRtg of 95 a PER of 25 and a BPM of six. You don't just take that away and assume the team will be fine.


Except Tony's and, specially, Manu's ball was efficient ball for all eras.

:rolleyes Ever since the three became a thing, it was more efficient than the two. However, heavier perimeter defense combined with better rules for bigs in the paint prevented the three from taking over for years. Like yeah, if you put Curry back in the 80s, he would have set a ton of scoring records, and provided they didn't injure him, it could have broken the whole system. However, if Curry grew up in the 80s, the three would have been a much smaller part of his game. In that same token, Manu and Tony both had games that were defined through their relationship with bigs (especially Tony). From Nash to Stockton, guards depended on competent to elite bigs complimenting their games. Playing "efficient ball" in Tim's shadow was never the point.

[Chinook]

I mean, the fucking SSOL Phoenix Suns ran a fucking train over the entire league for two straight regular seasons. :lol

But good try son, I guess. :lol

It's sort of odd that you think the Spurs without Duncan were anything similar to the Suns. Pop is a better coach than D'Antoni, but he wouldn't have come up with that system, especially not on the fly, and the personnel was so different between the teams that it's not comparable (not the least of which is the fact that Phoenix had a strong front court during that time).

[DAF86]

It's sort of odd that you think the Spurs without Duncan were anything similar to the Suns. Pop is a better coach than D'Antoni, but he wouldn't have come up with that system, especially not on the fly, and the personnel was so different between the teams that it's not comparable (not the least of which is the fact that Phoenix had a strong front court during that time).

I didn't bring the Suns up to say the Spurs could play like them. I brought the Suns up to prove that perimeter oriented teams were doing just fine on that era.

[TD 21]

:lmao At DAF86, clearly believing that Ginobili was better than Duncan, yet not having the intestinal fortitude to say it for fear of criticism on a message board.

Also, ignoring that Duncan was the best defensive player in the league back then, before the league had attempted to outlaw defense and minimize traditional bigs because they couldn't sell either to your ilk.

[tholdren]

:lmao At DAF86, clearly believing that Ginobili was better than Duncan, yet not having the intestinal fortitude to say it for fear of criticism on a message board.

Also, ignoring that Duncan was the best defensive player in the league back then, before the league had attempted to outlaw defense and minimize traditional bigs because they couldn't sell either to your ilk.

Tim great manu great

[DAF86]

:lmao At DAF86, clearly believing that Ginobili was better than Duncan, yet not having the intestinal fortitude to say it for fear of criticism on a message board.

Also, ignoring that Duncan was the best defensive player in the league back then, before the league had attempted to outlaw defense and minimize traditional bigs because they couldn't sell either to your ilk.

What?! :lol

[daslicer]

:lmao

Not surprised I didn't expect a good comeback from you Manutard. Manutard do you honestly believe the '02-'03 Spurs could have won more than 30 games without Duncan?

[daslicer]

I mean, the fucking SSOL Phoenix Suns ran a fucking train over the entire league for two straight regular seasons. :lol

But good try son, I guess. :lol

They also had Amare Stoudemire you dumb fuck but you ignore that fact to sell your shitty argument.

[DAF86]

Not surprised I didn't expect a good comeback from you Manutard. Manutard do you honestly believe the '02-'03 Spurs could have won more than 30 games without Duncan?

Tony, Manu, Jackson, Bowen, Robinson, Malik, Pop. I don't know, maybe. But I was clearly referring to the Manu and Tony prime years.

[DAF86]

They also had Amare Stoudemire you dumb fuck but you ignore that fact to sell your shitty argument.

Dude, where does this animosity towards me comes from? I don't remember having any hard discussion with you. In fact, I hadn't even noticed you up to this point. :lol

[YGWHI]

You are wrong, Pop tried to use him differently last year and all that did was take away his strengths and make him want a trade. Pop is using him how he should be used.

I wonder since when LMA strengths were being a post-up big.

Anyway, with other healthy scoring options or not on the court, I doubt a bigman posting-up 45% is a winning formula in today NBA, esp against good playoffs teams.

[Dre_7]

I wonder since when LMA strengths were being a post-up big.

Anyway, with other healthy scoring options or not on the court, I doubt a bigman posting-up 45% is a winning formula in today NBA, esp against good playoffs teams.

When he was with Portland he scored most of his points on post ups I believe.

[Chinook]

I also don't think it's fair to act like the team is built around LMA, the way it would have been in the scenario DAF86 is proposing. It's one thing to argue the offense runs with him as the first options, but no post-centered roster is ideally going to be filled with underachieving shooters, old guards and bigs who can't rebound. Tony and Manu possibly could have led a consistent 50-win team with a roster tailored to their strengths. But getting a perimeter player even half as good as prime Tony or Manu to add to this roster, and you'd see Aldridge do the same.

[weeks]

I don't understand how a forum that watched Robinson and Timmy still criminally underrates bigs, but here we are.

rebounds, defense, difficulty to guard, anchoring a team. LMA is better than most people here realize, it's just he's no Duncan and he has diva tendencies

a talented big commands a lot of attention. If our shitty roster could make their shots....those double teams would start to hurt a lot more.

[DAF86]

I don't understand how a forum that watched Robinson and Timmy still criminally underrates bigs, but here we are.

rebounds, defense, difficulty to guard, anchoring a team. LMA is better than most people here realize, it's just he's no Duncan and he has diva tendencies

a talented big commands a lot of attention. If our shitty roster could make their shots....those double teams would start to hurt a lot more.

I don't understand how a forum that saw Robinson and Timmy can compare Aldridge to them, tbh.

[weeks]

I don't understand how a forum that saw Robinson and Timmy can compare Aldridge to them, tbh.

no one does that though

but everyone underrates LA

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't understand how a forum that watched Robinson and Timmy still criminally underrates bigs, but here we are.

rebounds, defense, difficulty to guard, anchoring a team. LMA is better than most people here realize, it's just he's no Duncan and he has diva tendencies

a talented big commands a lot of attention. If our shitty roster could make their shots....those double teams would start to hurt a lot more.


I agree with you. Our 3 point shooting stinks when it matters. No one on this team can hit a pressure shot...we've got a 40 year old as our only closer...sad. Gay's injury better be healed because he's the only other guy on the roster with any ability to win games without Kawhi in there to carry the team.

[gambit1990]

i recommended the spurs not trade la over the summer. i said wait until the RS and his trade value will rise. spurs shoulda sold high.

[tbdog]

Cavs: 3rd East, 2 Allstars (Lebron & Love)
Wizards: 4th East, 2 Allstars (Wall & Beal)
Twolves: 4th West, 2 Allstars (Butler & Towns)
Thunder: 5th West, 2 Allstars (Westbrook & George)
Pelicans: 8th West, 2 Allstars (Davis & Cousins)

Spurs: 3rd West, 1 Allstar. (LMA). He is carrying us.

[duncan2k5]

They also had Amare Stoudemire you dumb fuck but you ignore that fact to sell your shitty argument.

Amaretto was injured for Nash's entire second MVP season... Their center was Marion

[dbestpro]

I don't understand how a forum that watched Robinson and Timmy still criminally underrates bigs, but here we are.

rebounds, defense, difficulty to guard, anchoring a team. LMA is better than most people here realize, it's just he's no Duncan and he has diva tendencies

a talented big commands a lot of attention. If our shitty roster could make their shots....those double teams would start to hurt a lot more.

I think it has more to do with how the game is called today. Should just call it the under 7 foot league, and leave it at that.

[Hoops Czar]

Cavs: 3rd East, 2 Allstars (Lebron & Love)
Wizards: 4th East, 2 Allstars (Wall & Beal)
Twolves: 4th West, 2 Allstars (Butler & Towns)
Thunder: 5th West, 2 Allstars (Westbrook & George)
Pelicans: 8th West, 2 Allstars (Davis & Cousins)

Spurs: 3rd West, 1 Allstar. (LMA). He is carrying us.

Isn't Love and Cousins injured? The Spurs are 10-13 since Dec. 30th. Who exactly is he carrying?
But yeah, when the Spurs were playing the easiest schedule in the league, he had us afloat.

[tbdog]

Cousins and Love were both selected before the injuries. Both ahead of LMA. LMA is avg 21ppg on 56% shooting in the same 30 days. Forbes and Mills are exactly good players. What is sad that our second, third, and fourth best performing players are Gasol, Manu, and Kyle. Davis is not exactly carrying his team despite being known as the best pf in the game currently.

[spurraider21]

it's going to have to be, tbh

[weeks]

it's going to have to be, tbh

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Aldridge is the king of empty stats.

Spurs need to dump him in the offseason. He would be a good third option on another team.

[TimDunkem]

The Carmelo of bigs.

[tholdren]

The Carmelo of bigs.

Yes. Lma is a beast in the paint. Hes better than carmello

[TimDunkem]

Yes. Lma is a beast in the paint. Hes better than carmello

Too bad that's never gotten him anywhere. He'll never ring, tbh.

[tholdren]

Too bad that's never gotten him anywhere. He'll never ring, tbh.

Hope he does if hes a spur

[phxspurfan]

Add Parker to Manu's Argentina National Team squad and call them the Spurs... coached by Pop. NOW THAT would be an interesting hypothetical. Championship pretenders perhaps, but even they would've won more than 50 games.

They would have lost to the Virgin Islands national team :downspin:

[Spurtacular]

Aldridge is great on the block when up by ten or more with under two minutes left, tbh.

[K...]

imagine if had shooters and drivers to pass to instead of the rogue's crew we got.

[spursistan]

968027328055070727

He is been doing more than jacking up shots, tbh..

[SAGirl]

968027328055070727

He is been doing more than jacking up shots, tbh..
:bobo:lma. He wants to win. He's been a good leader this season playing with a lot of young players. Like KA said, no one works the hardest.

[Seventyniner]

968027328055070727

He is been doing more than jacking up shots, tbh..

He busts his ass on D and rebounds. I don't think he has the personality to bang on both ends for a full game though. Even then he shoots over 75% at the rim.

[BillMc]

968027328055070727

He is been doing more than jacking up shots, tbh..

Guy really deserves all-defensive team consideration. He's soooooooooo much improved over the Portland days.

[Slippy]

Guy really deserves all-defensive team consideration. He's soooooooooo much improved over the Portland days.
Agree. Thought he played like a man possessed last night. It seemed infectious on the team who all looked focused & full of energy.

[DAF86]

968027328055070727

He is been doing more than jacking up shots, tbh..

I never had a problem with his efforts on the defensive end, tbh.

[SAGirl]

968176687962886149

[Seventyniner]

968027328055070727

He is been doing more than jacking up shots, tbh..

The Dejounte thread said he led the Spurs in shots contested with 12. How does someone get a .5?

[Chinook]

The Dejounte thread said he led the Spurs in shots contested with 12. How does someone get a .5?

And this is the main problem with people just posting stats. There usually isn't an easily viewable corpus of data, nor a transparent methodology. Most likely, the two references to "contested shots" rely on different definitions. My guess is that at least one of LMA's contests came from the team swarming a shooter, giving another guy a .5 as well.

[Seventyniner]

And this is the main problem with people just posting stats. There usually isn't an easily viewable corpus of data, nor a transparent methodology. Most likely, the two references to "contested shots" rely on different definitions. My guess is that at least one of LMA's contests came from the team swarming a shooter, giving another guy a .5 as well.

It might even be as bad as SportVU cameras just keeping track of who the closest player was to a shooter on a contested shot, splitting the contest in case of a tie. Then it would be completely automated without anyone necessarily going back to see if it makes any sense.

The .8 boxouts is also strange.

[spursistan]

I'll never be a fan of him, but this is just another case of analytics becoming a rather overrated concept/model in modern day basketball..

Without Aldridge's ball, the Spurs would have been scraping the barrel with Hawks and Magic of the worlds this season..:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Has OP ever had a thread bumped because it was correct? :lol

[Chinook]

The issue with analytics is that no one's found a way to put them into their proper numeric context yet. So long as people don't understand what the stats REALLY mean, they'll continue to make false conclusions.

[daslicer]

I'll never be a fan of him, but this is just another case of analytics becoming a rather overrated concept/model in modern day basketball..

Without Aldridge's ball, the Spurs would have been scraping the barrel with Hawks and Magic of the worlds this season..:lol

Analytics is very overrated. Analytics states that posting up is inefficient but that's a bunch of bs when you figure they count fade away shots as posting up. Just an example of why i don't trust analytics.

[SAGirl]

I'll never be a fan of him, but this is just another case of analytics becoming a rather overrated concept/model in modern day basketball..

Without Aldridge's ball, the Spurs would have been scraping the barrel with Hawks and Magic of the worlds this season..:lol
I don’t think they can win as they were tonight even against the Hawks and the Magics.

The Hawks won one of their games against the Spurs and the Magic whipped the Spurs really bad. Both with Aldridge.

[tholdren]

The issue with analytics is that no one's found a way to put them into their proper numeric context yet. So long as people don't understand what the stats REALLY mean, they'll continue to make false conclusions.

Lol you use plus minus all the time to justify your stance on individual players. Sit down

[tholdren]

Analytics is very overrated. Analytics states that posting up is inefficient but that's a bunch of bs when you figure they count fade away shots as posting up. Just an example of why i don't trust analytics.

There are no analytics to gauge the correct basketball play, momentum, or anything neuro. Until that happens, people will just say the best player is the one who scores the most points. Just as they have done for years. Dumb fans tbh

[Nathan89]

Has OP ever had a thread bumped because it was correct? :lol:lol

[Chinook]

Lol you use plus minus all the time to justify your stance on individual players. Sit down

Plus-minus and analytics are not the same thing. Contextualized analytics and non-contextualized analytics aren't either. Don't let your triggering get in the way of knowing the proper definitions.

[vander]

Lol you use plus minus all the time to justify your stance on individual players. Sit down

Lol, you have hundreds of posts hating the on court / off court stat. Everyone already knows you don't grasp it and hate. Nobody cares.
Move on.

[DAF86]

I'll never be a fan of him, but this is just another case of analytics becoming a rather overrated concept/model in modern day basketball..

Without Aldridge's ball, the Spurs would have been scraping the barrel with Hawks and Magic of the worlds this season..:lol

And I have stated that many times on this thread. For example:


Dudes hear this out: I'M NOT BLAMING LA FOR OUR CURRENT RECORD, I KNOW THAT WITHOUT HIM THE SPURS WOULD BE A LOTTERY TEAM RIGHT NOW. I'M JUST MAKING AN OBSERVATION OF HIS GAME IN GENERAL: HE IS POST UP DEPENDENT (THE LEAST EFFICIENT PLAY IN BASKETBALL), HE IS MIDRANGE DEPENDENT (THE LEAST EFFICIENT SHOT IN BASKETBALL) AND HE PAIRS ALL THAT WITH A TASTE FOR SOFT INEFFICIENT FADEAWAYS. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HIM HAVING TO STEP UP AS A 1ST OPTION WITH KAWHI INJURED, I'M LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE AND COMMENTING THAT, EVEN WHEN KAWHI IS BACK, LA AS A HIGH USAGE SECOND OPTION STILL WON'T BE ENOUGH TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS, BECAUSE HIS GAME STYLE JUST ISN'T EFFICIENT FOR TODAY'S NBA. STOP TALKING ABOUT KAWHI BEING INJURED AS IF I WAS BASING MY POINT ON THE FACT THAT THE SPURS AREN'T WINNING GAMES, BECAUSE THAT ISN'T THE CASE AT ALL.

Why is the topic of this thread so hard to understand? :lol It has little to nothing to do with what has happened this season, tbh.

[DAF86]

Has OP ever had a thread bumped because it was correct? :lol

Many times. For example: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234327

Have I ever had a thread bumped for being wrong, though? I don't think I have, tbh.

[tholdren]

Lol, you have hundreds of posts hating the on court / off court stat. Everyone already knows you don't grasp it and hate. Nobody cares.
Move on.

Lol only idiots think its relevant to judge individual performance... there is nothing to judge. Dont be dumb

[SAGirl]

971583918192386048

[DAF86]

971583918192386048

I don't know if that's referred to me but just in case:


Dudes hear this out: I'M NOT BLAMING LA FOR OUR CURRENT RECORD, I KNOW THAT WITHOUT HIM THE SPURS WOULD BE A LOTTERY TEAM RIGHT NOW

[SAGirl]

I don't know if that's referred to me but just in case:
nah... I am not pushing agendas or trying to pick up fights with posters.

I am just dumping all the Aldridge impact stats in this thread bc whether you intended it or not, the thread turned on a lot of criticism about him and it is now very, very clear that without him, the spurs would probably be right there with Memphis on the tankathon competing for a top 5 pick this season.

It's still weird to me that you'd start a thread being critical of Aldridge's game when if not for him they hardly win 20 games this season in all likelihood... but IMO it's fine to be critical of guys games that we watch all season. It's like all the Dijon protectors jumping out of the woods when one mentions one critical thing about him. The guy is not perfect and just because one wants him to be better doesn't mean one doesn't cheer for him.

Anyways, it's obvious that a team playing current Gasol 30+ minutes and Joff is headed to the lottery fast...

[DAF86]

nah... I am not pushing agendas or trying to pick up fights with posters.

I am just dumping all the Aldridge impact stats in this thread bc whether you intended it or not, the thread turned on a lot of criticism about him and it is now very, very clear that without him, the spurs would probably be right there with Memphis on the tankathon competing for a top 5 pick this season.

It's still weird to me that you'd start a thread being critical of Aldridge's game when if not for him they hardly win 20 games this season in all likelihood... but IMO it's fine to be critical of guys games that we watch all season. It's like all the Dijon protectors jumping out of the woods when one mentions one critical thing about him. The guy is not perfect and just because one wants him to be better doesn't mean one doesn't cheer for him.

Anyways, it's obvious that a team playing current Gasol 30+ minutes and Joff is headed to the lottery fast...

To me this is the best moment to start this thread about something that I have come to realize about Aldridge's game because nobody can accuse me of being prisoner of the moment. In fact, I started this thread right after a Spurs win in which LA scored 30+ pts.

[SAGirl]

To me this is the best moment to start this thread about something that I have come to realize about Aldridge's game because nobody can accuse me of being prisioner of the moment. In fact, I started this thread right after a Spurs win in which LA scored 30+ pts.
Problem is that right now Spurs need him to be putting in those numbers. No one else can be consistent offensively and there are no alternatives but to play Aldridge ball. If you had alternatives then one can understand this point better but you don't.

Like I said, it's fine to be critical of his game in a vacuum. Kawhi has had some critics to his game, specially early on when he started to dominate the ball and go through a lot of Kawhobe phases. And I suspect if he were playing some critics would still brave the crowd with some hot takes. But when you don't have other options but to play Aldridge ball... meh.

[SAGirl]

He hasn't gotten enough love or credit for the season he has had. Very few players can, as a single all star, carry a team into the playoffs. Aldridge has had very little help offensively. On different nights, different guys perhaps play well, but he plays with non shooters Anderson and Murray, they double, triple him sometimes... when he doesn't play with Anderson it's usually bc Pop has gone with super tiny midget ball and instead the Spurs suffer through a defensive challenge that Aldridge has to compensate for.

“I feel like everything with me gets blown out of proportion,” he says. “I think it’s because I’m so quiet about things that people just run with anything they hear.”
I bet teammate Kawhi Leonard feels the same.


Heading into the break, his 1,209 total points more than doubled the combined output from San Antonio’s second- and third-leading scorers. (The only other player in the league who can make a similar claim is LeBron James.)


These quotes are from this nice piece about him:
971811063502069761

Something that is not said there... his teammates love him. At least young teammates look up to him.

967898577367388161
935985995584978945

[Chinook]

The real problem is that the team isn't playing "Aldridge ball"; they are just using Aldridge as the first option with the roster they've had available. The team isn't and wasn't supposed to be built around LMA -- therefore, this was never a good time to make such a claim. That's where half of the ire against this thread came from. The other half comes from the fact that this was not a hot take but has been presented and defended as if it's some revolutionary idea other people only disagree with because they don't "get" it. It's actually a really worn out anti-postup take. We've been seeing this since people realized Al Jefferson wasn't a superstar many years ago.

As a bonus is the conflation with being able beat the Warriors in a series with being able to win a title in the three-point era. The Spurs damned sure would have been able to win a title last year had Durant and Curry fallen down a mine shaft or something. It's not about the "modern NBA"; it's about not being able to win a talent advantage with an insanely stacked team. They handled the other "modern" NBA team last year easily, and many folks thinking they would do so this year if they can get healthy and in sync. I can't imagine what sweeping claims DAF would be making if ST were around during the Jordan dynasty.

[DAF86]

Problem is that right now Spurs need him to be putting in those numbers. No one else can be consistent offensively and there are no alternatives but to play Aldridge ball. If you had alternatives then one can understand this point better but you don't.

Like I said, it's fine to be critical of his game in a vacuum. Kawhi has had some critics to his game, specially early on when he started to dominate the ball and go through a lot of Kawhobe phases. And I suspect if he were playing some critics would still brave the crowd with some hot takes. But when you don't have other options but to play Aldridge ball... meh.

The thing is that I'm thinking more about the short term future. For this season we obviously have no choice but to keep playing Aldridger ball. For next season, if we really want to contend that shit will have to change.

[spurraider21]

The real problem is that the team isn't playing "Aldridge ball"; they are just using Aldridge as the first option with the roster they've had available. The team isn't and wasn't supposed to be built around LMA -- therefore, this was never a good time to make such a claim. That's where half of the ire against this thread came from. The other half comes from the fact that this was not a hot take but has been presented and defended as if it's some revolutionary idea other people only disagree with because they don't "get" it. It's actually a really worn out anti-postup take. We've been seeing this since people realized Al Jefferson wasn't a superstar many years ago.

As a bonus is the conflation with being able beat the Warriors in a series with being able to win a title in the three-point era. The Spurs damned sure would have been able to win a title last year had Durant and Curry fallen down a mine shaft or something. It's not about the "modern NBA"; it's about not being able to win a talent advantage with an insanely stacked team. They handled the other "modern" NBA team last year easily, and many folks thinking they would do so this year if they can get healthy and in sync. I can't imagine what sweeping claims DAF would be making if ST were around during the Jordan dynasty.
[applause]

[daslicer]

The real problem is that the team isn't playing "Aldridge ball"; they are just using Aldridge as the first option with the roster they've had available. The team isn't and wasn't supposed to be built around LMA -- therefore, this was never a good time to make such a claim. That's where half of the ire against this thread came from. The other half comes from the fact that this was not a hot take but has been presented and defended as if it's some revolutionary idea other people only disagree with because they don't "get" it. It's actually a really worn out anti-postup take. We've been seeing this since people realized Al Jefferson wasn't a superstar many years ago.

As a bonus is the conflation with being able beat the Warriors in a series with being able to win a title in the three-point era. The Spurs damned sure would have been able to win a title last year had Durant and Curry fallen down a mine shaft or something. It's not about the "modern NBA"; it's about not being able to win a talent advantage with an insanely stacked team. They handled the other "modern" NBA team last year easily, and many folks thinking they would do so this year if they can get healthy and in sync. I can't imagine what sweeping claims DAF would be making if ST were around during the Jordan dynasty.

:lol It would be the Spurs need to play the triangle and trade David Robinson for a perimeter all-star player.

[r0drig0lac]

:lol It would be the Spurs need to play the triangle and trade David Robinson for a perimeter all-star player.

in fact, the anomaly at the time was Michael Jordan, it was a game dominated by bigs (Admiral, Akeem, Shaq, Malone, Barkley, etc.)

[daslicer]

in fact, the anomaly at the time was Michael Jordan, it was a game dominated by bigs (Admiral, Akeem, Shaq, Malone, Barkley, etc.)

I agree I remember that era very well since that's the era I grew up in. I was just taking a jab at the mainstream hot take which is everybody has to play like the Warriors to win a championship.

[Chinook]

in fact, the anomaly at the time was Michael Jordan, it was a game dominated by bigs (Admiral, Akeem, Shaq, Malone, Barkley, etc.)

That's true, but the Warriors are also anomalous and were built before the DPE era. It's gonna be hard to get another top-five player in free agency because of how much more their own teams can pay them. Teams that draft really well would potentially be at an advantage, but that's how it's supposed to be. Also some players would take less, but there's nothing you could have ever done about that.

[r0drig0lac]

That's true, but the Warriors are also anomalous and were built before the DPE era. It's gonna be hard to get another top-five player in free agency because of how much more their own teams can pay them. Teams that draft really well would potentially be at an advantage, but that's how it's supposed to be. Also some players would take less, but there's nothing you could have ever done about that.
yep.
- Curry ankles getting healthy making its cost-benefit the best in sport history
- Jerry West blocking klay - Love trade
- Durant being FA in the year that the cap went up (not counting his obvious lack of competitiveness)

is a series of factors to get to what the golden state has become, really do not see happening again

[DAF86]

The real problem is that the team isn't playing "Aldridge ball"; they are just using Aldridge as the first option with the roster they've had available. The team isn't and wasn't supposed to be built around LMA -- therefore, this was never a good time to make such a claim. That's where half of the ire against this thread came from. The other half comes from the fact that this was not a hot take but has been presented and defended as if it's some revolutionary idea other people only disagree with because they don't "get" it. It's actually a really worn out anti-postup take. We've been seeing this since people realized Al Jefferson wasn't a superstar many years ago.

As a bonus is the conflation with being able beat the Warriors in a series with being able to win a title in the three-point era. The Spurs damned sure would have been able to win a title last year had Durant and Curry fallen down a mine shaft or something. It's not about the "modern NBA"; it's about not being able to win a talent advantage with an insanely stacked team. They handled the other "modern" NBA team last year easily, and many folks thinking they would do so this year if they can get healthy and in sync. I can't imagine what sweeping claims DAF would be making if ST were around during the Jordan dynasty.

This team might not be built around Aldridge, but it's not built around Kawhi either. It's just a very poorly designed roster in general.

And regarding the previous season, Aldridge didn't have the usage not the number of postup touches he has had this season. He was basically a borderline role player, or a distant 2 to Kawhi's clear cut number 1.

You may say "well, LA touches are going to go down when Kawhi comes back" and yeah, logic says it might slip a bit but not to the point where many may think. Anything coming from LA and Pop's mouth makes me believe that once Kawhi comes back they will try to keep feeding LA as much as possible and have him and Kawhi as a type of 1a/1b combo. What everyone figures is "well, that's a good thing dumbass" and I'm not so sure about that. And that's where you have my hot take, tbh.

[TD 21]

The real problem is that the team isn't playing "Aldridge ball"; they are just using Aldridge as the first option with the roster they've had available.

Since Aldridge's arrival, they've been a slow paced, post/mid ranger heavy, 3-phobic offense and though it's not entirely his doing, those are all hallmarks of his game. To be clear: I'm not anti Aldridge or post up. On the contrary on both counts actually. I'm more concerned with doing whatever it takes to win a championship though.


As a bonus is the conflation with being able beat the Warriors in a series with being able to win a title in the three-point era. It's not about the "modern NBA"; it's about not being able to win a talent advantage with an insanely stacked team. They handled the other "modern" NBA team last year easily, and many folks thinking they would do so this year if they can get healthy and in sync.

It's a combination of those 2 teams' talent advantage and style, the latter of which accentuates the former, the way Spurs' did in '12-'14.

:lmao At Spurs handing Rockets "easily" last season. I not only haven't heard a single person say they thought they'd do so this year, if healthy (outside of you, I presume; though I wouldn't put it past some of your ilk), but have heard a growing chorus who believe Rockets can beat Warriors.

[Chinook]

:lol "The two teams' talent advantage"

Even if you think Houston is more talented this year, that has nothing to do with the "modern" three-point era. It has to do with them adding a superstar to their roster.

I'm pretty sure there's another thread (or rather like a million other threads) around here complaining about that. Seems rather inappropriate to spam this one.

[TD 21]

:lmao Like it's debatable that they're more talented. Again, it's a combination. A second all time play maker and another knockdown shooter, is partially responsible for them shooting even more 3s and making them at a higher rate.

Says the guy who brought it up.

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol

[boutons_deux]

Strategy to beat Spurs in the playoffs double Aldridge often Spurs get swept

[duncan2k5]

We saw how Aldridge plays in the playoffs already without Kawhi... The dude is physically and mentally soft... He didn't even go down swinging... That's my biggest issue with him...

[Slippy]

We saw how Aldridge plays in the playoffs already without Kawhi... The dude is physically and mentally soft... He didn't even go down swinging... That's my biggest issue with him...

The biggest issue in the playoffs will be how Murray responds since it will be him feeding Lamarcus the ball & his man double down on Lamarcus.:lol

[Down Under]

Did he choke agsinst okc or just regress to the mean? I mean, he was on fire the first few games, he was going to fall away at some stage.

[TimDunkem]

:lmao Like it's debatable that they're more talented. Again, it's a combination. A second all time play maker and another knockdown shooter, is partially responsible for them shooting even more 3s and making them at a higher rate.

Says the guy who brought it up.

People here really love to overcomplicate things.

Basketball is pretty simple: great playmakers + 3pt shooters = success > one injured star + ineffecient offense + scrubs = 1st round exit.

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol #71

[spursistan]

Damn..needed every point of his 33 to pull away from the Santa Cruz Warriors..

Glad that he's eating but also handing out Ws for the team. He might be the happiest man on this squad right now :lol..

[DAF86]

:lol #71

I know you will keep bumping this thread 'cause you are either a troll or a retard (honestly don't know which, tbh) but just to don't have the other non-troll/retards posters confusing my point:


Dudes hear this out: I'M NOT BLAMING LA FOR OUR CURRENT RECORD, I KNOW THAT WITHOUT HIM THE SPURS WOULD BE A LOTTERY TEAM RIGHT NOW

[TheGreatYacht]

I know you will keep bumping this thread 'cause you are either a troll or a retard (honestly don't know which, tbh) but just to don't have the other non-troll/retards posters confusing my point:
I know why you made this thread you inbred retard. So you can bump it when the team predictably gets eliminated in the first round and you can look like nostradumbass.

They'll get knocked out, but it won't be because of him.

[Brunodf]

I agree with this tbh LMA just isn't good enough to be the 1st option on a championship team

[DAF86]

I know why you made this thread you inbred retard. So you can bump it when the team predictably gets eliminated in the first round and you can look like nostradumbass.

They'll get knocked out, but it won't be because of him.

Nah son, it isn't about these playoffs. It isn't about LA playing well or bad either. It is about the team, when fully healthy, still not being good enough to go all the way if Aldridge is still getting around 30 to 40 touches per game on the post.

[daslicer]

I know why you made this thread you inbred retard. So you can bump it when the team predictably gets eliminated in the first round and you can look like nostradumbass.

They'll get knocked out, but it won't be because of him.

:lol This

[DAF86]

:lol This

I just literally made a response to this comment explaining that these playoffs (if Kawhi is out) wouldn't prove anything related to the topic I was trying to make regarding the Spurs not being good enough to win the championship with Aldridge as a top option getting from 30 to 40 touches on the post. If Kawhi is out the Spurs aren't winning shit no matter what, so my theory would be impossible to prove. Once Kawhi comes back and if Aldridge keeps getting so many touches on the post, like I think he will, that will be the time to see if I was right or wrong.

But yet, after I explained all of this, you still post a comment saying "diz :fight" like a fucking idiot.

[duncan2k5]

Nah son, it isn't about these playoffs. It isn't about LA playing well or bad either. It is about the team, when fully healthy, still not being good enough to go all the way if Aldridge is still getting around 30 to 40 touches per game on the post.

Truth!

[$pursDynasty]

Bump after LaSharkus' monster games on the 6 game homestand

[DAF86]

Bump after LaSharkus' monster games on the 6 game homestand

Thread was created after a LaSharkus' monster game on a win, tbh. :lol

[offset formation]

He's a gotdamn stud. Future HOF. Bow before his greatness, you fucking whiny ass focks.

[SAGirl]

Bump after LaSharkus' monster games on the 6 game homestand
Wipityyyyyyy
Team on a winning streak.
All aboard
:lma

[SAGirl]

He's a gotdamn stud. Future HOF. Bow before his greatness, you fucking whiny ass focks.
:lmao
:worthy:

[Ice009]

Right now, it's the only type of winning ball for the Spurs.

[HarlemHeat37]

OP is correct, assuming he means they could never contend with Aldridge as a focal point..I don't know why he's getting attacked for that, it seems like an obvious point, tbh..

I loved last year's version of Aldridge, I think he could be a legitimate 2nd guy on a title team if he played the same role(defensive anchor and complimentary piece)..unfortunately, he doesn't agree, as he demanded a trade:lol

Good enough to be the best player on an early exit team(style of play easily shut down by a good defense in the playoffs), but not content with being a complimentary piece on a contender..maybe his mentality will change as he gets older..

[r0drig0lac]

OP is correct, assuming he means they could never contend with Aldridge as a focal point..I don't know why he's getting attacked for that, it seems like an obvious point, tbh..

I loved last year's version of Aldridge, I think he could be a legitimate 2nd guy on a title team if he played the same role(defensive anchor and complimentary piece)..unfortunately, he doesn't agree, as he demanded a trade:lol

Good enough to be the best player on an early exit team(style of play easily shut down by a good defense in the playoffs), but not content with being a complimentary piece on a contender..maybe his mentality will change as he gets older..

spurstalk

[Chinook]

spurstalk

This is wrong-headed. A thread like this would get blasted on any site. ST is probably the friendliest place for it, seeing as there are plenty of posters like you who have no problem shitting on the team's players or downplaying anything good they do. Imagine how this would have done on the Spurs' Reddit.


OP is correct, assuming he means they could never contend with Aldridge as a focal point..I don't know why he's getting attacked for that, it seems like an obvious point, tbh..

I loved last year's version of Aldridge, I think he could be a legitimate 2nd guy on a title team if he played the same role(defensive anchor and complimentary piece)..unfortunately, he doesn't agree, as he demanded a trade:lol

Good enough to be the best player on an early exit team(style of play easily shut down by a good defense in the playoffs), but not content with being a complimentary piece on a contender..maybe his mentality will change as he gets older..

The obvious point is a big part of why the thread has gotten so much shit. The idea that post-ups are inefficient is pretty old at this point. We've known for like a decade that you need perimeter guys to win games, that shooting and spacing were important, and that's it's easier to defend the post with numbers than it is anywhere else on the court. DAF came in here acting like he had a hot take and then was pretentious as hell about defending it. ("You just don't understand the modern NBA.")

It's like, no we get it. It's not new. It's just not an ironclad take. The Spurs aren't playing Aldridge-ball right now. They are just doing what they can to keep going. Giving LMA facilitators and shooters who understand how to get open for him when he's doubled and who can build chemistry with him to get those passes down in addition to a quality second option and a good bench is closer. Right now, Aldridge would kill for an option like pre-injury Wes Matthews, let along prime-Batum, McCollum or Lillard. The Blazers managed to play Aldridge-ball despite having good offensive players around him. Scoring wasn't their problem. Get 75 percent of that firepower to combine with the Spurs' D, and they could be a contender.

[spursistan]

976780770609115136
976783562254045185
976785085293907968

The lack of 3Pt shot leaves a lot to be desired, but Aldridge has made some adjustment to his offensive game this season.

It is a shame the Spurs are going to wind up wasting perhaps the best of his late prime years..

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol mandatory bump after LMAlpha's career-high 45 points (over the true 2017 DPOY, nonetheless)

[Mr. Body]

He's a beast inside in this league right now. When he's aggressive and gets position he's a tough cover.

[Chinook]

Had to be bumped I agree. And DAF is contractually obligated to most his CAPS LOCK defense quote.

[spursistan]

OP may say that's on puropose, but this one of the most untimely threads i've seen on ST :lol.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

12 is looking a lot like 21

[SAGirl]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. In a season where there is so much to criticize, and Aldridge is the lone bright spot and of course a hate thread for him has to pop in spurstalk.

[Chinook]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. In a season where there is so much to criticizecriticize, A
Drudge is the line bright spot and of course a hate thread for him has to pop in spurstalk.

Gotta hate posting on a phone.

[DarrinS]

12 is looking a lot like 21

Not really

[SAGirl]

Gotta hate posting on a phone.
It's a tablet, but still :bang

[Slippy]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. In a season where there is so much to criticize, and Aldridge is the lone bright spot and of course a hate thread for him has to pop in spurstalk.

Lol sure is. Lesson to be learnt hopefully

[Hoops Czar]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. In a season where there is so much to criticize, and Aldridge is the lone bright spot and of course a hate thread for him has to pop in spurstalk.

Yeah, but your reading comprehemnsion on the otherhand. :lol


I love the effort he's putting up out there, and I love even more the nifty high-low game he has developed with Gasol, but posting up 30/40 times a game isn't the recipe for winning anymore. Specially not when your postup player loves to takes fadeaway jumpers most of the time and is bad at passing off double teams.

And I'm saying it now that he's playing well. I don't even want to imagine how it will be if he goes back to sucking.

Hate thread?

Aldridge ball is not conducive to winning postseason basketball. Just ask Portland. But yeah, he's balling in the regular season and he should be proud of that because that's what he's done throughout his entire career. If there's one player on the team that doesn't want to see a Kawhi comeback though, it's balldridge. But explain to me how Aldridge makes his teammates better? And I don't mean by carrying their asses every single night.

[offset formation]

He did his best to carry them past us in the postseason a few years ago. He gets such a bad rap.