For everyone ragging on Pop and RC

[Keepin' it real]

To all of you saying Tim covered up Pop's and RC's flaws ... duh! They said as much in interviews over the years. Clearly they were not just being folksy.

And even if they were being a little tongue-in-cheek, don't forget coaches and GMs have a shelf life, too. Pop and RC are past their prime. It happens. Like Harvey Dent said in The Dark Knight, "You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain."

Pop/RC appear to have outlived their usefulness. The tough thing is how do you part ways with them without it being a PR nightmare. See Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno in college football for examples. Those transitions at the end of their championship careers were painful and set those programs back for many years.

I'm reading all these frustrated comments about the poor roster and possible botching of Kawhi's situation, and I naturally assume you want them fired. Because seriously, it's not like they're intentionally being bad at their jobs. They are past their primes and therefore need to go, right?

But how did you show Pop and RC the door in a classy way after all these years of success? Because we know this from Pop quotes in the past: "The money's pretty good." In other words, he's saying, "Don't expect me to just walk away." That's the same thing Manu is doing, Tony is doing, and even Tim did (at a much higher level).

So, how do you do it? How do you fire these guys? Seriously?

[dbreiden83080]

It is the fault of Pop and RC that Leonard has not played all season???

[SPURt]

Phew, I’m glad I’m not the only one worried Pop’s exit will be similar to that of Joe Paterno. Coach Bud did terrible things to me #MeToo

[SupremeGuy]

It is the fault of Pop and RC that Leonard has not played all season???Maybe? We don't really know anything.

[BSfromTX]

Pop and RC may not be what they use to be, but people need to quit pretending we can simply hire someone better. I’ve watched this league for over 25 years and 75% of teams suck because of management and the rest have a considerable amount of luck.

should the Spurs let pop and RC go, their replacements are likely to be worse. It’s just the odds.

What is is a hidden quality with Pop is what he can get out of lesser players. That is simply a must when it comes to being a small market team. We are third in the West with this team... like it or not, it is impressive.

im tired of Pop and his alter ego, but quit thinking it would just be so easy to replace him and still be successful let alone better... as for RC? To me he’s really more of Pops puppet and replaceable

[boutons_deux]

We'll see how great a coach that Pop is now that he's got a disastrous-as-rated-by-Manu season to salvage.

[dbreiden83080]

Maybe? We don't really know anything.

They managed his minutes, and kept him out of the playoffs to save further damage on his ankle. He came into camp hurt, with no explanation given other than wear and tear.. Whatever is wrong with him, has nothing to do with coaching or the Front office..

[Dex]

That's what happened when the best power forward of all time leaves your team. Spurs are lucky to still be where they are at, tbh...just need Leonard to get healthy and come back.

[Hoops Czar]

Third. In. The. West. Bitches.

[UZER]

Pop and RC may not be what they use to be, but people need to quit pretending we can simply hire someone better. I’ve watched this league for over 25 years and 75% of teams suck because of management and the rest have a considerable amount of luck.

should the Spurs let pop and RC go, their replacements are likely to be worse. It’s just the odds.

What is is a hidden quality with Pop is what he can get out of lesser players. That is simply a must when it comes to being a small market team. We are third in the West with this team... like it or not, it is impressive.

im tired of Pop and his alter ego, but quit thinking it would just be so easy to replace him and still be successful let alone better... as for RC? To me he’s really more of Pops puppet and replaceable

At the moment he took over, was Pop and upgrade from Bob Hill? Hill had just taken the team to the WCF after years and years of playoff failures with high expectations. What experience as a head coach in the NBA did pop have? And Pop almost got fired WITH Tim Duncan. :lol

He was no upgrade when he took over.

[tmtcsc]

What a bunch of bullshit. Look, this version of the Spurs thats being trotted out on the floor is NOT what Pop or RC had in mind. This team was set up to revolve around Kawhi Leonard and LaMarcus Aldridge. Everyone else were support players - young and old. Last season - without Tim Duncan, this roster with the exception of Jonathan Simmons, reached the WCF.

I thought it was downright fucking miraculous that they got that far with the lack of talent they had. So this year, despite not having their best player available for the majority of the season, being in third place in the Western Conference and having statistically, one of the highest rated Defenses in the league, it's time to usher the coach and GM off the team.

Holy shit. I'm not tuning in to watch many games this year because the product is sub-par. No Leonard, no Rudy Gay, no scoring punch from Mills - its been ugly. The NBA is typically about who has the best talent but in the Spurs' case, the system and coaching staff has played a HUGE part in their success. Earlier this year there were threads saying "Do we even need Kawhi?" when Rudy Gay was playing decently.

The Spurs are mired in injuries and strange lineups right now. They are faced with an aging roster and relying on unlikely players to contribute heavy minutes. No one is happy about this but lets pump the brakes on putting the blame on Pop and RC. Lets see this thing play out first.

[daslicer]

What a bunch of bullshit. Look, this version of the Spurs thats being trotted out on the floor is NOT what Pop or RC had in mind. This team was set up to revolve around Kawhi Leonard and LaMarcus Aldridge. Everyone else were support players - young and old. Last season - without Tim Duncan, this roster with the exception of Jonathan Simmons, reached the WCF.

I thought it was downright fucking miraculous that they got that far with the lack of talent they had. So this year, despite not having their best player available for the majority of the season, being in third place in the Western Conference and having statistically, one of the highest rated Defenses in the league, it's time to usher the coach and GM off the team.

Holy shit. I'm not tuning in to watch many games this year because the product is sub-par. No Leonard, no Rudy Gay, no scoring punch from Mills - its been ugly. The NBA is typically about who has the best talent but in the Spurs' case, the system and coaching staff has played a HUGE part in their success. Earlier this year there were threads saying "Do we even need Kawhi?" when Rudy Gay was playing decently.

The Spurs are mired in injuries and strange lineups right now. They are faced with an aging roster and relying on unlikely players to contribute heavy minutes. No one is happy about this but lets pump the brakes on putting the blame on Pop and RC. Lets see this thing play out first.

This. There were a lot of people who were upset at the front office during the summertime for not making the moves that they wanted. Had Kawhi stayed healthy this year and played at his MVP level these people would not have been able to voice their anger because the Spurs would have been winning. With Kawhi being out it gives them tons of ammo to scream "I told you so Pop and RC are garbage they don't know what they are doing since the Spurs are losing. This team is complete trash." My reaction is of course the Spurs are going to not be an elite team without their Superstar. Take away any superstar from their team and that team will struggle outside of Warriors who are lucky to have 2 superstars. The Rox for example were terrible this year when they lost Harden to injury. Even a better example is if you take Tim off of the '03 championship team and watch them become a lottery team. Like you said this team was designed with Kawhi-LMA being the focal points with the rest of the pieces complimenting them. If Kawhi is healthy this team record wise would be competing with the Rox,Warriors for the best record in the West.

The losses this team has suffered doesn't really bother me because without a healthy Kawhi the season is lost and thus the team is incomplete. By the way I don't think Kawhi is coming back this year so for me I feel no need to be heavily vested in the results of these games.

[Down Under]

If any other team bar GS had it's best player miss 50 odd games, they wouldn't be in the playoffs let alone the 3rd seed :lol

[Russ]

If any other team bar GS had it's best player miss 50 odd games, they wouldn't be in the playoffs let alone the 3rd seed :lol

:toast:flag:

[TheGreatYacht]

If any other team bar GS had it's best player miss 50 odd games, they wouldn't be in the playoffs let alone the 3rd seed :lol
Of course not because they wouldn't have had the easiest schedule in the NBA like the Spurs did :lmao

[sananspursfan21]

The only place I ever read about how “Pop and RC suck” is here. You don’t see this criticism virtually anywhere else

[Seventyniner]

The only place I ever read about how “Pop and RC suck” is here. You don’t see this criticism virtually anywhere else

As I've said before, bitches gonna bitch. What can you do?

[daslicer]

The only place I ever read about how “Pop and RC suck” is here. You don’t see this criticism virtually anywhere else

This is the only place where you have retards expecting the team to win a lot of games without their superstar.

[KDKSpurs24]

This is the only place where you have retards expecting the team to win a lot of games without their superstar.
I don’t. But I’m a person that sees someone like Mills and knows that he won’t help against the teams we have to beat. He won’t be able to defend anyone (especially since we switch so much). And if he can’t hit shots then he’s useless. And then I haven’t complained about Gasol much lately (even though I don’t like his contract) he’s also unplayable for the most part against the teams we have to beat. I just want a trade even if Kawhi comes back. A defender with size who can hit the occasional 3 and a defensive big (I know these can be difficult to come by right now).

[daslicer]

I don’t. But I’m a person that sees someone like Mills and knows that he won’t help against the teams we have to beat. He won’t be able to defend anyone (especially since we switch so much). And if he can’t hit shots then he’s useless. And then I haven’t complained about Gasol much lately (even though I don’t like his contract) he’s also unplayable for the most part against the teams we have to beat. I just want a trade even if Kawhi comes back. A defender with size who can hit the occasional 3 and a defensive big (I know these can be difficult to come by right now).

I agree with you 100 percent. It would be nice if the Spurs could get an athletic perimeter player or a big man that could defend. I really miss Dedmon and David Lee.

[KDKSpurs24]

I agree with you 100 percent. It would be nice if the Spurs could get an athletic perimeter player or a big man that could defend. I really miss Dedmon and David Lee.
Unfortunately, we had both of those needs in Dedmon and Simmons.

[Ice009]

I don’t. But I’m a person that sees someone like Mills and knows that he won’t help against the teams we have to beat. He won’t be able to defend anyone (especially since we switch so much). And if he can’t hit shots then he’s useless. And then I haven’t complained about Gasol much lately (even though I don’t like his contract) he’s also unplayable for the most part against the teams we have to beat. I just want a trade even if Kawhi comes back. A defender with size who can hit the occasional 3 and a defensive big (I know these can be difficult to come by right now).

This is my opinion too, but this is also what I've been telling people about Pop. Back in the day, if the player wasn't going to perform against the teams you need to beat, Pop never would have re-signed them. I don't understand what has changed with him and why he's doing it now.

[KDKSpurs24]

This is my opinion too, but this is also what I've been telling people about Pop. Back in the day, if the player wasn't going to perform against the teams you need to beat, Pop never would have re-signed them. I don't understand what has changed with him and why he's doing it now.
I’ll tell you what it is. Pop is at the tail end of his career and he just wants to spend it with people he’s comfortable with. It seems like he’s willing to even put the future in jeopardy because of it.

[Seventyniner]

I don’t. But I’m a person that sees someone like Mills and knows that he won’t help against the teams we have to beat. He won’t be able to defend anyone (especially since we switch so much). And if he can’t hit shots then he’s useless. And then I haven’t complained about Gasol much lately (even though I don’t like his contract) he’s also unplayable for the most part against the teams we have to beat. I just want a trade even if Kawhi comes back. A defender with size who can hit the occasional 3 and a defensive big (I know these can be difficult to come by right now).

If the Spurs hadn't re-signed Pau they would only have two bigs on the roster and one of them is Joffrey Fucking Lauvergne. And since it was a Bird rights signing, letting him walk would not have freed up any cap space. They would have had to use the MLE on a big and there is no guarantee that player would be as good as Pau. He can play normal minutes against just about any team, even Houston. And even if he is borderline unplayable against GS you have to get that far first, no way the Spurs get that far without Pau.

We very well could see a trade happen anyway due to apprehension (as close to panic as Pop and RC get).

[Dancelot]

Going to hold by judgment on them until I see what they do this off-season with improving the team. I believe they have a lot of work to do if the Spurs are as bad as they’ve looked recently.

[KDKSpurs24]

If the Spurs hadn't re-signed Pau they would only have two bigs on the roster and one of them is Joffrey Fucking Lauvergne. And since it was a Bird rights signing, letting him walk would not have freed up any cap space. They would have had to use the MLE on a big and there is no guarantee that player would be as good as Pau. He can play normal minutes against just about any team, even Houston. And even if he is borderline unplayable against GS you have to get that far first, no way the Spurs get that far without Pau.

We very well could see a trade happen anyway due to apprehension (as close to panic as Pop and RC get).
I’m sill just referring to that contract. Because at the same time we gave him that money Willie Reed was also available for cheap. So could have had Pau for cheaper and Reed and I would have liked that much better.

I HOPE they have to make a trade. Thursday can’t get here fast enough! Or even before that.

[sasaint]

I’m sill just referring to that contract. Because at the same time we gave him that money Willie Reed was also available for cheap. So could have had Pau for cheaper and Reed and I would have liked that much better.

I HOPE they have to make a trade. Thursday can’t get here fast enough! Or even before that.

I hope you aren't setting yourself up for a big letdown.

[UZER]

I’ll tell you what it is. Pop is at the tail end of his career and he just wants to spend it with people he’s comfortable with. It seems like he’s willing to even put the future in jeopardy because of it.

Yeah that is what people have been saying for awhile. And that's why people are saying he just needs to retire already.

[Seventyniner]

Yeah that is what people have been saying for awhile. And that's why people are saying he just needs to retire already.

People saying that doesn't make it true. Plausible, maybe. But how would we know unless he actually said it?

[UZER]

People saying that doesn't make it true. Plausible, maybe. But how would we know unless he actually said it?

I meant people in this board. It's just an opinion man.

[BSfromTX]

At the moment he took over, was Pop and upgrade from Bob Hill? Hill had just taken the team to the WCF after years and years of playoff failures with high expectations. What experience as a head coach in the NBA did pop have? And Pop almost got fired WITH Tim Duncan. :lol

He was no upgrade when he took over.

dude, bob hill was a good offensive coach and that was it! Hill could care less about defense which is why the dream killed us and the jazz killed us in the p&r. Yes, Pop was unproven at that time, but he saw enough to know Hills lack of defensive focus was going to keep us from ever getting to the finals. He took a BIG chance at taking the reigns, but I think he has proven his philosophy to be at least solid..

[r0drig0lac]

Third. In. The. West. Bitches.

this

[DeRozan m8]

Third. In. The. West. Bitches.

We aren't a threat.

Third in the West doesn't mean shit in the end.

Stop being so simple

[YGWHI]

Whatever is wrong with him, has nothing to do with coaching or the Front office..
I agree with you. After all, Spurs' medical staff isn't part of Front office.

[Keepin' it real]

Pop and RC may not be what they use to be, but people need to quit pretending we can simply hire someone better. I’ve watched this league for over 25 years and 75% of teams suck because of management and the rest have a considerable amount of luck.

should the Spurs let pop and RC go, their replacements are likely to be worse. It’s just the odds.

Well said. I agree.


What a bunch of bullshit. Look, this version of the Spurs thats being trotted out on the floor is NOT what Pop or RC had in mind. ... The Spurs are mired in injuries and strange lineups right now. They are faced with an aging roster and relying on unlikely players to contribute heavy minutes. No one is happy about this but lets pump the brakes on putting the blame on Pop and RC. Lets see this thing play out first.

Exactly, this (no Kawhi) is not what was intended, but that doesn't stop spurstalkers from daily bitching about Patty's and Pau's contracts, not re-signing other players, Pop's in-game decisions, Pop's handling of Kawhi's injury, etc.

I'm just trying to call those people out. Do they really find Pop/RC to be unacceptable? They're too old to learn new tricks. So if Pop/RC no longer measure up, the logical step is to get rid of them.


The only place I ever read about how “Pop and RC suck” is here. You don’t see this criticism virtually anywhere else

Welcome to spurstalk!


Back in the day, if the player wasn't going to perform against the teams you need to beat, Pop never would have re-signed them. I don't understand what has changed with him and why he's doing it now.

See below.


I’ll tell you what it is. Pop is at the tail end of his career and he just wants to spend it with people he’s comfortable with. It seems like he’s willing to even put the future in jeopardy because of it.

You're right that sometimes it seems that way. And if that's truly the case, then as you said, he's jeopardizing the franchise.


Yeah that is what people have been saying for awhile. And that's why people are saying he just needs to retire already.

That's the people I'm trying to reach. That's why I posted this because Pop's not going to retire. The money's too good. So what do you do?


We aren't a threat.

Third in the West doesn't mean shit in the end.

Stop being so simple

This is where many spurstalkers are divided into two camps:

Camp 1 wants to be championship-relevant every year. That might be delusional since we are in the middle of the Warriors dynasty, but oh well.

Camp 2 knows we aren't winning the 'chip, so being a 3 seed and continuing the 50-wins record is accomplishment enough, given our roster and the imbalance in the league.

I guess there could be a third camp: since the Spurs have an injured star and the Warriors are a championship lock, this would be the perfect time to tank, rebuild, start over. It's not like the Spurs are winning a title anyway. From that perspective, the next couple of seasons are the perfect time to hit the reset button.

[DPG21920]

Mills deal is bad regardless and many people were pretty upset. I more than most tried to paint the picture as to WHY Pop/RC did what they did and how unlucky they got, but ultimately it was a bad deal. Independent of anything else it is a bad deal that they will hopefully rid themselves of soon.

[SnakeBoy]

If this is the kind of meltdown we get from an injury riddled season I can't wait to see the meltdown when the Spurs go through a real rebuilding stretch.

[Chomag]

I'm just in the camp of not wasting Years of KL's prime. Aka Drob's prime.

[UZER]

I'm in the camp of Manu and Parker deserve to go out when they want, but the the PATFO shouldn't be relying on them so heavily and paying them so much at this point in their careers.

That fact that Manu has to play as well as he does at this age for the Spurs to win games is both sad and embarrassing for the FO.

[Dex]

We aren't a threat.

Third in the West doesn't mean shit in the end.

Stop being so simple

I mean, it's important for playoff seeding. If Kawhi and Gay can come back healthy after the ASB, the Spurs could still make some noise in the playoffs. If not, then yes...we are not a threat.

We were never gonna be the favorites over the Warriors anyway. Our best hope was, and still is, getting into the playoffs healthy and trying to surprise a few teams.

[Keepin' it real]

I'm just in the camp of not wasting Years of KL's prime. Aka Drob's prime.

I don't believe those years were wasted. No one is entitled to a championship, not even The Admiral. They fought hard but were unable to win a title in his prime. Many all-time greats didn't win a title. That doesn't mean their careers were a waste.

But those Robinson years were great and a lot of fun, despite the playoff disappointments.

And regarding Kawhi's prime, it's gonna be "wasted" regardless due to Golden State's dominance.

[Down Under]

Mills deal is bad regardless and many people were pretty upset. I more than most tried to paint the picture as to WHY Pop/RC did what they did and how unlucky they got, but ultimately it was a bad deal. Independent of anything else it is a bad deal that they will hopefully rid themselves of soon.
I think unanimously, people thought he was the 2nd best player on the team in the first half of last season as well as the best backup PG in the league while being paid well below market value for a number of years. It's possible he gets back to somewhere between that level and where he is now.

[Down Under]

Not saying they shouldn't trade him if the right deal comes along, but Mills plays best when he's a SG off the ball and he has a bigger guy next to him who can guard 2 guards & dominate the ball like Manu or possibly Murray.

[UZER]

Not saying they shouldn't trade him if the right deal comes along, but Mills plays best when he's a SG off the ball and he has a bigger guy next to him who can guard 2 guards & dominate the ball like Manu or possibly Murray.

There are more important things in life than how I play Patty.

:pop:

[UZER]

dude, bob hill was a good offensive coach and that was it! Hill could care less about defense which is why the dream killed us and the jazz killed us in the p&r. Yes, Pop was unproven at that time, but he saw enough to know Hills lack of defensive focus was going to keep us from ever getting to the finals. He took a BIG chance at taking the reigns, but I think he has proven his philosophy to be at least solid..

Has proven. But nothing WAS proven at the time he replaced Hill. Like I said, his ass almost got fired WITH Tim Duncan. He was an complete unknown as a head coach. But he was given a chance.

People keep saying "who's better than Pop?" No one is better. Pop is a legend. But at this point, what is Pop worth if he's signing players to ridiculous contracts just for his comfort, and shipping players out that can help the team Just because they give a little attitude? Bring me coach with some fire like the unproven young Pop.

Young Pop brought in Mario Elie because his team needed that toughness and grit and attitude. This Pop is handing out loyalty contracts like king size Snickers to players like Pau that had only been here for two years, and joined the team at 36.

I'm not saying to fire him. I'm saying he just needs to retire of his heart isn't in it anymore.

[Ice009]

If this is the kind of meltdown we get from an injury riddled season I can't wait to see the meltdown when the Spurs go through a real rebuilding stretch.

I went through the '96/'97 season when I was a kid and I didn't really have a problem with it, in fact, I was happy with how hard that team played. They still tried hard almost every game no matter who they played and gave maximum effort. They fell short most of the time, but they busted their asses and played hard on defense. This current team minus Kawhi, I like a lot less. That '96/'97 team also had legit injuries, I think the reason I'm so disappointed in this season is Kawhi basically has a sore quad and he's missed most of the season. I just can't seem to get my head around him missing that many games with the injury he has. I thought it would have been healed up months ago.

Add that injury to those bad contracts, it just makes it feel worse. The '96/'97 team, as far as I recall, didn't really have terrible long term contracts on the books. If Kawhi was playing and doing his thing, I probably wouldn't be thinking about those contracts as much with him being out most of the season so far.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's what happened when the best power forward of all time leaves your team. Spurs are lucky to still be where they are at, tbh...just need Leonard to get healthy and come back.

Duncan had nothing to do with latching on 98 million to Patty & Pau.

Duncan had nothing to do with Kawhis quad.

[apalisoc_9]

Duncan had nothing to do with latching on 98 million to Patty & Pau.

Duncan had nothing to do with Kawhis quad.

You changed your avi. Convinced kawhi is leaving? :lol

[MaNu4Tres]

You changed your avi. Convinced kawhi is leaving? :lol

:lol

Not convinced..

But I'm not optimistic about him being a Spur past the summer.

[Mikeanaro]

Damage control thread.

[pgardn]

What a bunch of bullshit. Look, this version of the Spurs thats being trotted out on the floor is NOT what Pop or RC had in mind. This team was set up to revolve around Kawhi Leonard and LaMarcus Aldridge. Everyone else were support players - young and old. Last season - without Tim Duncan, this roster with the exception of Jonathan Simmons, reached the WCF.

I thought it was downright fucking miraculous that they got that far with the lack of talent they had. So this year, despite not having their best player available for the majority of the season, being in third place in the Western Conference and having statistically, one of the highest rated Defenses in the league, it's time to usher the coach and GM off the team.

Holy shit. I'm not tuning in to watch many games this year because the product is sub-par. No Leonard, no Rudy Gay, no scoring punch from Mills - its been ugly. The NBA is typically about who has the best talent but in the Spurs' case, the system and coaching staff has played a HUGE part in their success. Earlier this year there were threads saying "Do we even need Kawhi?" when Rudy Gay was playing decently.

The Spurs are mired in injuries and strange lineups right now. They are faced with an aging roster and relying on unlikely players to contribute heavy minutes. No one is happy about this but lets pump the brakes on putting the blame on Pop and RC. Lets see this thing play out first.

And there are teams with far superior talent. It happens.

[pgardn]

Damage control thread.

Sober reality.

[objective]

I don't believe those years were wasted. No one is entitled to a championship, not even The Admiral. They fought hard but were unable to win a title in his prime. Many all-time greats didn't win a title. That doesn't mean their careers were a waste.

But those Robinson years were great and a lot of fun, despite the playoff disappointments.

And regarding Kawhi's prime, it's gonna be "wasted" regardless due to Golden State's dominance.

Robinson's early years arguably were wasted by bad management and cheap ownership, particularly after Robinson's rookie year. Injuries hurt, maybe ultimately even a larger factor, but they didn't do a good job controlling the things they could control.

Let's not forget the annual Spurs signing of a wretched, washed up players (typically a rocket) on his way to retirement. Sleepy Floyd, Larry Smith, Trent Tucker, Vinnie Johnson, etc etc.

Trading Brickowski for Pressey was awful. Being too cheap to sign Strickland in an era where there wasn't a luxury tax ... He signed a deal to be a backup to Porter, that's how little he was paid. Backup money. Rod wasn't a great player or guy maybe, but that sent them into a tailspin if point guards. Refusing to pay Avery a guaranteed deal for what I think was close to the minimum. He left to be a backup in Golden State.

When they signed Sleepy Floyd, possibly the most washed up player in Spurs history, it was the point guard apocalypse. They cut Chris Childs in camp, he would get picked up that year and easily establish himself as an NBA player. Chris Whitney overtook Sleepy. Then they traded for Negele Knight. Just a giant wasted season because there was no point guard on the team, traced back to Strickland.

[dbestpro]

Pop has lost his focus on basketball. He's got his mind too much on politics, and he is doing a lousy job of making anything better in that arena, as well.