Thoughts on Spurs Trading Danny Green For DeMar DeRozan and Jakob Poeltl

[timvp]

-Honestly, after I read the total package of today’s big trade, my word for word reaction was:
https://i.imgur.com/YcAQlkx.gif

-After letting the trade digest a bit, I still don’t love it but I’m starting to understand the thinking behind it.

-Firstly, sad to see Danny Green go. He goes down as one of my favorite Spurs of all-time. He came out of nowhere to give the Spurs more than a half decade worth of championship-caliber starting shooting guard play. I’m proud of the way he bounced back from laying an egg in the 2012 playoffs by putting together a couple of the greatest shooting postseason runs this league has ever seen. Along the way, he became an elite defender, a great teammate and a player who kept a positive, wins-focused attitude no matter what. Thanks, Danny. Well done, man.

-I’m not ready to take a deep dive into Kawhi Leonard’s Spurs legacy. (It still hurts :lol) On one hand, the ride was damn fun while it lasted. On the other hand, it’s difficult to forgive Nephew for how things ended. I’m sure the Spurs deserve some blame but to sabotage your trade value by demanding a trade to the archrival Los Angeles Lakers … I mean, I can’t imagine a more villainous ending to what appeared even a year ago to be a perfect marriage between superstar and franchise.

-Let us take a moment to realize that not everyone is built like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Those two are true legends. It takes more than just supreme basketball talent to carry a small market team to championship-relevancy year after year. Gentlemen, Spurs fans are forever grateful.

-Considering the trash offers the Spurs were reportedly getting for Nephew, you can’t be too unhappy with DeMar DeRozan. He’s much better than anyone the Lakers, Clippers or 76ers were offering. He has three years left on his contract and he’s due $27,739,975 per season, with the last season a player-option. While there’s some risk because he could decline physically during that time (he’s turning 29 next month), as it stands he should be worth that amount of money.

-Offensively, DeRozan is elite. Last season, his offensive real plus-minus was +3.42, which ranked 15th in the NBA. His ORPM has been consistently very good the last three seasons. He can create shots for himself in the halfcourt; DeRozan is very capable from all depths inside the three-point line. He has averaged more than 23 points per game for three-straight seasons. Last year, he took a big step forward playmaking-wise. He shattered his career-high by averaging 5.2 assists and was one of the top swingmen in the league in terms of assist-to-turnover ratio. And perhaps best of all, DeRozan is great at getting to the free throw line. He has averaged at least ten attempts per 100 possessions the last five seasons and knocks them down at a nearly 83% clip.

-While a top 20 player in the league on offense, DeRozan isn’t as good as a 100% healthy Nephew on the offensive end. I should make that clear. But speaking of health, that brings me to another positive DeRozan brings to the table: durability. DeRozan has been extremely reliable; his only extended absence in his career was a groin injury back in 2014. He has played 675 of 722 (93.5%) possible regular season games in his career. Nephew, on the other hand, has played in 407 of 558 (72.9%).

-Where DeRozan has been a liability his entire career is on the defensive end. He’s been really bad on that end – and that’s probably putting it kindly. DeRozan’s defensive real plus-minus was a ghastly -1.76 … and that was actually an improvement over his previous campaigns. He has athleticism and length but he’s never been able to be even an adequate defender.

-Fit-wise, I’m less than enthralled. For all of DeRozan’s talents on offense, he’s a poor three-point shooter (28.9% for his career). That’s a rather huge flaw considering he’ll be playing next to the longball-limited Dejounte Murray while occupying the same space LaMarcus Aldridge likes to operate in. Spacing is going to be an issue. A big issue.

(-Speaking of spacing, it now makes a whole lot of sense why the Spurs went with Davis Bertans over Kyle Anderson. The signing of Marco Belinelli also now makes more sense. As constructed, this team needs every perimeter player outside of Murray and DeRozan to be able to shoot if they have any hope of having decent spacing.)

-Pop has his work cut out for him when it comes to making DeRozan decent on D. If Pop can hide him (Murray should help in this matter) and cajole (gently, I’m sure) more effort from him on that end, it’s theoretically possible for DeRozan to become someone who doesn’t kill the Spurs on defense. I wouldn’t bet on it due to DeRozan’s long history of being a sieve, but maybe it could happen.

-In a DeRozan trade, I wanted OG Anunoby to be included. If not OG, then I wanted Pascal Siakam. If not Siakam, I wanted an unprotected first round pick. That said, Jakob Poeltl is a solid young center. Though he was somewhat lost in the Raptors impressive bigman depth, Poeltl is someone you can easily imagine sticking around the Spurs for the next decade.

-Poeltl, a 7-foot-1 center from Austria, has two main strengths: offensive rebounding and shotblocking. He’s top ten in the league in both categories on a per possession basis. Those two numbers alone make him a very interesting prospect. The 22-year-old, even though he’s 250 pounds, is also mobile enough to survive today’s perimeter-oriented NBA. He’s not David Robinson reborn but he can move his feet decently enough. I’ve also been impressed with his basketball IQ in the times I’ve watched him play.

-On the other hand, Poeltl is a shockingly poor defensive rebounder, especially for someone his size. To put it in perspective, his defensive rebounding percentage last season was worse than Gasol, King Joffrey, Murray, Gay, Nephew, Anderson, Aldridge and even Derrick White. How can someone so big and so good on the offensive glass be so pitiful when it comes to rebounding on the defensive end of the court?

-Perhaps even more damning for Poeltl in Pop’s eyes is the fact that he led the league in fouls per minute last season. Pop loathes fouls, even by active bigmen (See: Mahinmi, Ian). Poeltl fouls more than anyone else. That is going to be a rough fit unless the Austrian really improves on that end. Poeltl, even though he can be a sneaky-good passer at times, also turns it over quite a bit for someone who had limited touches with the Raptors. That, too, won’t sit well with Pop.

-Since Poeltl doesn’t have an outside shot, I can’t imagine him starting alongside Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge. That would be a spacing nightmare. But coming off the bench, he could be really useful from Day 1. At 22, he has upside and projects to one day be a possible starter. I wouldn’t be too surprised if he’s starting in three years and giving the Spurs 12 points, ten rebounds and two blocks per game. All in all, Poeltl was definitely a positive asset to get in the Nephew trade.

-I’m hoping even more now for Manu Ginobili to return because Poeltl could be his best pick-and-roll partner since Tiago Splitter was traded. A big guy who sets solid screens and rolls hard will be good for Ginobili as he quarterbacks the bench. And, probably more importantly, Poeltl’s fit on the second unit would be seamless with Ginobili spoon-feeding him. Without Ginobili, he could get lost in the shuffle.

-What will the starting lineup be? I think with the addition of Poeltl, Pau Gasol has to be the starting center, right? That would open up a spot in the rotation for Poeltl and it would help try to mask DeRozan’s defensive weakness. If Pop starts someone like Bertans at power forward and slides Aldridge to center, while that could help offensively spacing-wise, that starting lineup would be really bad defensively – especially since it looks like Mills, Gay or Belinelli would have to round out the starting five.

-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That’s the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing. (Belinelli gets the nod over Gay due to the desperate need for three-point shooting in that lineup and the nod over Mills due to size.) A bench of Mills, Ginobili, Gay, Bertans and Poeltl actually could be pretty strong, honestly.

-I was really hoping for a better haul in the Nephew trade. I can’t try to pretend I’m thrilled with what the Spurs ended up getting. (No OG? No Pascal? Only one highly protected first round pick? Man, that’s tough to swallow.) That said, following the trade, I think the Spurs can win 50-plus games. Are they championship contenders? I’d say it’s fair to call them a dark horse that needs something totally unforeseen (like Murray blossoming into an All-Star in 2019) if they are to reenter that conversation.

-Again, thanks to Danny Green. Poeltl should be a solid piece for a long time. DeRozan will be a breath of fresh air. He’s a good guy by all accounts. In fact, you can make the case he’s been the most loyal and team-first star in the league over the last half decade. No star player has ever shown Toronto any type of loyalty in their history as a franchise. DeRozan never wavered, never looked for greener and less-taxed pastures, and never tried to threaten his way back to Los Angeles. Basketball is again the focus and the playoffs should once again be attainable. I’m not upset about that.

[spurraider21]

so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.

[slick'81]

so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.

Obviously we lost this deal.hopefully derozan gets his 3 point% up and potel can atleast be our future backup big

[Seventyniner]

so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.

What can you do? The trade is done, we can complain all we want but in the end the roster is what it is.

[TheGreatYacht]

Hated him post-contract, but god damn, in a league where PJ Tucker and Bojan Bogdanovic net you first round picks.... you use him as filler in a trade?!?!

Just when you thought RC couldn't get any dumber.

[Poolboy5623]

Seems like the only ones who think the Spurs lost this trade are found on this board....oh yeah, and Skip Bayless. Congrats you guys!

[spursistan]

I think any attempts at looking positively at this deal in vacuum is going to degenerate into a "sugarcoating" exercise.. This is a paltry return and there is no way to spin it.

The lack of upside in the pieces they got (players, picks) is the most disappointing part. It was a trade driven by two motives (a) to stay relevant in Pop's last 2 years in (b) and to move on from HSNBN 2.0..

[TheGreatYacht]

Seems like the only ones who think the Spurs lost this trade are found on this board....oh yeah, and Skip Bayless. Congrats you guys!
Fans here are brighter than talking heads who only pay attention to the Spurs when Pop shits on the orange fuhrer, illegal aliens who follow the Spurs on Facebook, and the reddit lgbtq community.

[Fusternino]

Still could've traded with the Clippers even after the draft, smh.

[Emperor]

Considering what this team was last season, this was technically an upgrade and now have a better chance to make it past the first round.

[Holden_Caulfield]

I saw demar at six flags a few weeks ago and I was wearing my spurs hat. Should've asked him to sign it :lol

[SAGirl]

Kawhi really depleted his value. He tried to torpedo even this underwhelming return for him by emphatically letting it be known he didn't want to be there.

It was indeed good while it lasted for the Kiwi led Spurs but it ended ugly and drawn out.

At least I am glad that's over and we can move on, like Pop said. It will hurt if he's in the finals next year sure... I still have concerns about his health and durability though.

[Cry Havoc]

What the fuck am I reading? Do you guys really think teams are going to gamble on Kawhi? There are already rumors that he's considering sitting the entire 2018 season. This isn't mid-2016, and other teams have eyes and ears. They know Kawhi intentionally took himself out of last season.

This is way, way more than I would have expected us to get given the circumstances. You guys were expecting the moon when we have a headcase of a player who has said he only wants to play for the Lakers. If you were a GM not named Pelinka, would you buy Kawhi right now?

Raptors fans are really upset by this trade. That should tell you all you need to know about the relative value we're giving.

[LkrFan]

1019673681436397568

:wow

[lmbebo]

More I think about it, the more disappointed I am. No quality 1st round pick(s) or young prospects. I feel like Jakob was a throw in. Not fond of him.

[daslicer]

Obviously this deal does not make the Spurs contenders. It wasn't an ideal trade at all but like other said Kawhi's uncle destroyed Kawhi's value. Spurs with this trade are capable of being a 50 win team. I will just enjoy the next few years being a 50 win team. Realistically it will be a long time before the Spurs are ever a contender again.

[spurraider21]

1019673681436397568

:wow
in what universe was green one of their best 3 point shooters? 2014?

[timvp]

so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.

1. Spurs did get "hosed" based on what Spurs fans wanted in return.

2. Based on reality, what they got in this deal is better than anything else other teams put on the table. The Lakers didn't want to give up Kyle freakin' Kuzma. The Sixers didn't wanted to give up Fultz or Saric. Boston didn't want to give up anyone.

3. I wanted three young players (or one star) and three or four first round picks. The Spurs got a borderline star, a protected first round pick and player whose value is probably equal to a late lottery pick. So definitely underwhelming but not a total hosing, IMO. I'd rather get DeRozan, Poeltl and a pick than trash like Ingram, Deng and a pick or Covington, trash and a pick.

4. The timing of this trade has me suspicious. If Nephew is broken, don't you have to trade him before the Team USA camp next week? Hmm...

[LkrFan]

1019556458369830917

:corn:

[DPG21920]

It’s an awful trade in a bubble, but SA had no really good options.

I really hope SA makes other moves. Use your picks (TOR and your own) to get better now. You won’t have cap space anyways unless you trade Pau/Mills but if you don’t care about FA you can maybe use them and picks to get win-now players that fit better.

Kawhi should be erased from the Spurs history completely IMO. I don’t care what good he did, he’s a ghost in my eyes. He should be hated, booed and run out of town for the rest of his life. It’s scorched earth mother f*cker and I’m leading the pack.

In fact, I am planning on quitting my job, leaving my wife and buying tickets to every Raps game this season so I can relentlessly heckle Kawhi until he breaks.

[ducks]

1019556458369830917

:corn:

just like george

[DPG21920]

Also, they are independent from the trade, but what team that has won as much as the Spurs and still has a playoff team has more young talent?

No blue chippers (although Poeltl was a top 10 pick), but Murray, White, Lonnie & Poeltl? That is not a bad young core for a team that has this much winning.

[Dex]

Still could've traded with the Clippers even after the draft, smh.

For what? Tobias Harris and a pair of old LA Gears? Give me a break.

[daslicer]

What the fuck am I reading? Do you guys really think teams are going to gamble on Kawhi? There are already rumors that he's considering sitting the entire 2018 season. This isn't mid-2016, and other teams have eyes and ears. They know Kawhi intentionally took himself out of last season.

This is way, way more than I would have expected us to get given the circumstances. You guys were expecting the moon when we have a headcase of a player who has said he only wants to play for the Lakers. If you were a GM not named Pelinka, would you buy Kawhi right now?

Raptors fans are really upset by this trade. That should tell you all you need to know about the relative value we're giving.

Agreed Spurs were put in a fucked up situation with Kawhi being retarded along with Uncle Dennis. They literally tried to strong arm the Spurs into sending Kawhi to the Lakers. I'm just proud of the Spurs for not caving in and sending Kawhi to the Lakers. Granted this tool will probably go there next summer.

[Hoops Czar]

1. Spurs did get "hosed" based on what Spurs fans wanted in return.

2. Based on reality, what they got in this deal is better than anything else other teams put on the table. The Lakers didn't want to give up Kyle freakin' Kuzma. The Sixers didn't wanted to give up Fultz or Saric. Boston didn't want to give up anyone.

3. I wanted three young players (or one star) and three or four first round picks. The Spurs got a borderline star, a protected first round pick and player whose value is probably equal to a late lottery pick. So definitely underwhelming but not a total hosing, IMO. I'd rather get DeRozan, Poeltl and a pick than trash like Ingram, Deng and a pick or Covington, trash and a pick.

4. The timing of this trade has me suspicious. If Nephew is broken, don't you have to trade him before the Team USA camp next week? Hmm...
If nephew is broken, he'll flunk his physical and be right back with the Spurs.

[Mugen]

1. Spurs did get "hosed" based on what Spurs fans wanted in return.

2. Based on reality, what they got in this deal is better than anything else other teams put on the table. The Lakers didn't want to give up Kyle freakin' Kuzma. The Sixers didn't wanted to give up Fultz or Saric. Boston didn't want to give up anyone.

3. I wanted three young players (or one star) and three or four first round picks. The Spurs got a borderline star, a protected first round pick and player whose value is probably equal to a late lottery pick. So definitely underwhelming but not a total hosing, IMO. I'd rather get DeRozan, Poeltl and a pick than trash like Ingram, Deng and a pick or Covington, trash and a pick.

4. The timing of this trade has me suspicious. If Nephew is broken, don't you have to trade him before the Team USA camp next week? Hmm...

If the team suspected he was "broken" the time to trade him would have been the week leading up to Free Agency tbh. The idiot is fine (i hope he isn't) tbh.

The team was probably holding out on a trade until Team USA camps for Pop to speak man to man with him. they probably had a convo recently (Pop said they talked a lot this summer) and the group made it clear that either he wasn't going to the camps or that he'd have a chaperone. That was probably the last straw and RC/Pop just said fuck it I don't want to deal with this guy anymore (I predicted they'd cave earlier, surprised they lasted this long tbh).

[SpursDynasty85]

so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.

Spurs had very little leverage. Spurs were lucky to get this. Yes. It still sucks if you think more about what could have been. Pop said it best "Does no good to look back at A,B, and C" but it's hard not to.

[Kori Ellis]

If nephew is broken, he'll flunk his physical and be right back with the Spurs.

I heard a rumor that the physical was waived.

[Marcus Bryant]

:tu

Back to basketball.

[Cry Havoc]

For what? Tobias Harris and a pair of old LA Gears? Give me a break.

Clutch LA Gears reference.

[LkrFan]

in what universe was green one of their best 3 point shooters? 2014?

Danny G shot 36.3% from downtown. That's better than Murray (26%) and DeFrozen (31%). LMA will need spacing, and yall traded for DeFrozen - who chucked 3.6 3s/game at a 31.2% clip? That's on par with Lonzo Ball's 30%. But we don't pay Lonzo $27 million dollars. :lmao

[timvp]

1019673681436397568

:wow

I love DG but he hasn't been able to shoot since Tony Parker lost a step back in 2015. Without TP causing teams to collapse, Green's open threes dried up. As it turns out, he's not nearly as good of a shooter when he has a hand in his face, unfortch.

[MoSpur02]

We were never going to get the same value in return. Kawhi pooped all over the Spurs. There was no way to recover because of his stupid PR.

[Hoops Czar]

I heard a rumor that the physical was waived.

:lmao More evidence that Toronto just wanted to dump DeRozen's contract at any cost.

[spursistan]

It’s an awful trade in a bubble, but SA had no really good options.

I really hope SA makes other moves. Use your picks (TOR and your own) to get better now. You won’t have cap space anyways unless you trade Pau/Mills but if you don’t care about FA you can maybe use them and picks to get win-now players that fit better.

Kawhi should be erased from the Spurs history completely IMO. I don’t care what good he did, he’s a ghost in my eyes. He should be hated, booed and run out of town for the rest of his life. It’s scorched earth mother f*cker and I’m leading the pack.

In fact, I am planning on quitting my job, leaving my wife and buying tickets to every Raps game this season so I can relentlessly heckle Kawhi until he breaks.

:tu..

Give me break with this classy BS. This dude has carried the most disgraceful and cowardly quitting a star player has done on a franchise-- and it's the Spurs of all teams. It is bush league move for the ages.

I really really hope SA never soften up. Anyone in the future who come up with idea of raising his jersey in the rafters when all is said and done should be fired on the spot.

[marinoman]

1019556458369830917

:corn:
You don’t wanna still trade for him by February

[Chinook]

Poeltl was a guy I would have been fine with in addition to OG. By the time I heard the trade was going down, I had rationalized Leonard and Green for DeRozan, OG and Poeltl. I would have been okay with Leonard and Gasol for DeRozan, Siakam, Miles and a first. I just feel like SA gave up the easiest package they could and took back the lowest deal they could possibly justify to themselves. Maybe that would have been fine back in June (or better yet as soon as they and Toronto were eliminated from the playoffs). A strong and immediate reaction seems justifiable. But to let it sit this long before making the dive: I just can't see why they wouldn't wait longer. None of this was going anywhere.

I wonder too if DeRozan was the "additional All-Star" all along. It seems very much like Toronto did this deal to get rid of DeMarr as much as to get Kawhi. Maybe there's a universe where SA traded 18, Green and Gasol for DeRozan to pair with Leonard and Aldridge. No reason to wonder about the impact such a trio could have had. Now, I'm just hoping there's something else in the works. If there is a trade they have access to still, I hope they still go for it, especially if it's for a guard. The team might have enough offense or ways to get enough points, but they still lack talent. Getting a perimeter-oriented guard definitely feels like the best avenue going forward. They "attacked" that by singing Forbes. But if they're going to sacrifice assets to contend, they need to be more committed to doing that than they seem to be.

[gambit1990]

a+ trade for the raptors. it was ridiculous for them to ever think lowry and demar would be good enough to do anything as a team's two best players. it's only reddit/twitter raptor "fans" that have a problem with this.



not a fan of the deal for the spurs but they will be better than they look on paper.



spurs should've waited until after minicamp.



danny must love the deal since he'll get to hang out with drake/i would imagine toronto has a better night life.

[spurraider21]

It’s an awful trade in a bubble, but SA had no really good options.

I really hope SA makes other moves. Use your picks (TOR and your own) to get better now. You won’t have cap space anyways unless you trade Pau/Mills but if you don’t care about FA you can maybe use them and picks to get win-now players that fit better.

Kawhi should be erased from the Spurs history completely IMO. I don’t care what good he did, he’s a ghost in my eyes. He should be hated, booed and run out of town for the rest of his life. It’s scorched earth mother f*cker and I’m leading the pack.

In fact, I am planning on quitting my job, leaving my wife and buying tickets to every Raps game this season so I can relentlessly heckle Kawhi until he breaks.
they should retire his jersey and then burn it in the rafters next time kawhi has a game there

[Pavlov]

Well, we did get a guy who averaged 33 points vs. Golden State last year. The other offers were for potential but this guy can score a lot now. Hoped for more but this was a salary dump for Toronto. Glad it's over with.

[LkrFan]

just like george

Kiwi nothing like "Playoff P"

Kiwi from Killa Cali, yet yall deported him to the North Pole. You think he staying there? :lol

[DPG21920]

SA badly needs Murray/Lonnie/White to Pop.

I don’t get how SA could so strongly want to win now and not be making other moves. They have to know the roster isn’t well built and that they need more. If you are going to harm the franchise long-term for the sake of Pop short-term, why not go all in and make a move for another true win-now piece?

[daslicer]

Danny G shot 36.3% from downtown. That's better than Murray (26%) and DeFrozen (31%). LMA will need spacing, and yall traded for DeFrozen - who chucked 3.6 3s/game at a 31.2% clip? That's on par with Lonzo Ball's 30%. But we don't pay Lonzo $27 million dollars. :lmao

Spurs will be fine. They are not a contender but they will be in the playoffs. Continue to be salty about the Spurs not giving you Kawhi for this year. You will probably get him next year but the Spurs basically wasted 1 year of Lebron's prime by not gifting Kawhi to the Lakers.

[LkrFan]

I love DG but he hasn't been able to shoot since Tony Parker lost a step back in 2015. Without TP causing teams to collapse, Green's open threes dried up. As it turns out, he's not nearly as good of a shooter when he has a hand in his face, unfortch.

Truth bombs. He's still a slightly better 3pt shooter than DeFrozen and a much better defender.

And to give up your franchise player for that shit package? Worse than what we got for Shaq in 2004 IMO. DeFrozen a nice player, but at $27 milli? And he has to battle in the West? Damn. :lol

[DPG21920]

Danny G shot 36.3% from downtown. That's better than Murray (26%) and DeFrozen (31%). LMA will need spacing, and yall traded for DeFrozen - who chucked 3.6 3s/game at a 31.2% clip? That's on par with Lonzo Ball's 30%. But we don't pay Lonzo $27 million dollars. :lmao

You also don’t make the playoffs in 5 years :lol and DeRozan would be your 2nd best player.

How does Rondo shoot from 3? Lonzo? McGee? Yall have sucky 3PT shooting too and no 2nd player as good as DeRozan.

[LkrFan]

Spurs will be fine. They are not a contender but they will be in the playoffs. Continue to be salty about the Spurs not giving you Kawhi for this year. You will probably get him next year but the Spurs basically wasted 1 year of Lebron' prime by not gifting Kawhi to the Lakers.

You say waste because you are banking on our kids not taking the next step playing off of a superstar. We'll see. :toast

[spurs10]

Thanks for the information timvp. Knowing DeMar is more of a driver and jump shooter I'm hoping he'll be a great thing for our shooters, so I can see some small ball with Bertans and even Mills, thought the defensive woes are duly noted. Hopefully the odd thing with Poetli excelling at offensive boards while being weak at defensive boards will steadily improve over the season. Another 7 ft player sounds good!

I was very impressed with Pop's interview and he helped put things in perspective a bit. I'm not too thrilled with Kawhi's behavior and while I won't wish him ill will, I won't be rooting for him. At least some of the drama is over and we can start the new season without that constant narrative. Something tells me Kawhi is already regretting his actions and I'm thrilled he's going to CA north and not CA west.

[daslicer]

Truth bombs. He's still a slightly better 3pt shooter than DeFrozen and a much better defender.

And to give up your franchise player for that shit package? Worse than what we got for Shaq in 2004 IMO. DeFrozen a nice player, but at $27 milli? And he has to battle in the West? Damn. :lol

:lol You basically got Lamar Odom for Shaq. That was a very one sided deal that was laughed at the time.

[LkrFan]

You also don’t make the playoffs in 5 years :lol and DeRozan would be your 2nd best player.

How does Rondo shoot from 3? Lonzo? McGee? Yall have sucky 3PT shooting too and no 2nd player as good as DeRozan.

I bet you ten chickens Pop would have rather a Kuz/Ingram combo over DeFrozen. :lol

You would too. In my Debo voice: don't lie :lol

[RD2191]

so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.

:lol

[marinoman]

Please have a trade that’s upcoming for pau/patty

[LkrFan]

:lol You basically got Lamar Odom for Shaq. That was a very one sided deal that was laughed at the time.

That fucker never made 1 all star team and only played good vs Phoenix and when Pau relegated him to a 3rd option. That was a shitty trade by the Lakers for a player of Shaq's ilk. :lol

[objective]

1. Spurs did get "hosed" based on what Spurs fans wanted in return.

2. Based on reality, what they got in this deal is better than anything else other teams put on the table. The Lakers didn't want to give up Kyle freakin' Kuzma. The Sixers didn't wanted to give up Fultz or Saric. Boston didn't want to give up anyone.

3. I wanted three young players (or one star) and three or four first round picks. The Spurs got a borderline star, a protected first round pick and player whose value is probably equal to a late lottery pick. So definitely underwhelming but not a total hosing, IMO. I'd rather get DeRozan, Poeltl and a pick than trash like Ingram, Deng and a pick or Covington, trash and a pick.

4. The timing of this trade has me suspicious. If Nephew is broken, don't you have to trade him before the Team USA camp next week? Hmm...

I don't think the timing is suspicious at all, the Spurs caved, but at least weren't so cowardly that they gave him go the Lakers. Spurs had the leverage of the USA camp, didn't they still need to give a letter of clearance? Kawhi would have needed to pass a physical. I just think they lost their stomach and their will to do the dirty work. They're just too nice.

And I agree with the posters who claim they got hosed and other posters are rationalizing.

Masai, if Kawhi shows up for even a year, destroyed the Spurs on the court with the best player and off by getting off $30 million in salary if it doesn't work out.

Raptors are the real favorites in the East with a top 3 player, GREAT WING DEFENSE with Kawhi, OG, and Green, good point guard play from their 3 guys, a starting center who was actually good in the playoffs unlike Poeltl, and utility bigs like Siakam and Ibaka and useful players like Miles and Powell. Hats off to Masai, he crushed it. Top 20 protected pick? Easy deal, so easy.

[spurraider21]

That fucker never made 1 all star team and only played good vs Phoenix and when Pau relegated him to a 3rd option. That was a shitty trade by the Lakers for a player of Shaq's ilk. :lol
they got caron butler too who became a good player for several years. but sent his ass packing for kwame :lmao

[mudyez]

Thanks Timvp!

[mo7888]

It’s an awful trade in a bubble, but SA had no really good options.

I really hope SA makes other moves. Use your picks (TOR and your own) to get better now. You won’t have cap space anyways unless you trade Pau/Mills but if you don’t care about FA you can maybe use them and picks to get win-now players that fit better.

Kawhi should be erased from the Spurs history completely IMO. I don’t care what good he did, he’s a ghost in my eyes. He should be hated, booed and run out of town for the rest of his life. It’s scorched earth mother f*cker and I’m leading the pack.

In fact, I am planning on quitting my job, leaving my wife and buying tickets to every Raps game this season so I can relentlessly heckle Kawhi until he breaks.

I've heard mills has positive value from several people so packaging him with a pick or two should be attractive to someone our there. I have no idea who we should target right now but, they better be proficient from 3.

[DPG21920]

I bet you ten chickens Pop would have rather a Kuz/Ingram combo over DeFrozen. :lol

You would too. In my Debo voice: don't lie :lol

No - those dudes suck and I’m not high on Ingram like others. I think SA still could have been a playoff team with a chance at a younger person developing but they would be worse now with them vs DeRozan IMO.

I think LA screwed the pooch here. They alienated Kawhi and now Ingram/Kuz have to really bust out into stars or they basically run the risk of doing nothing with Lebron. They may get Kawhi or another star, but if the young guys aren’t stars in the next 1-2 years, then it’s not enough and their “upside” trade value goes way down.

[LkrFan]

You don’t wanna still trade for him by February

I'm flat out surprised Maginka held onto the kids. They hardly ever grow from within.

That being said, if things aren't quite clicking by February it would be incompetent for them not to make a few phone calls tbh.

[RGMCSE]

-Honestly, after I read the total package of today’s big trade, my word for word reaction was:
https://i.imgur.com/YcAQlkx.gif

-After letting the trade digest a bit, I still don’t love it but I’m starting to understand the thinking behind it.

-Firstly, sad to see Danny Green go. He goes down as one of my favorite Spurs of all-time. He came out of nowhere to give the Spurs more than a half decade worth of championship-caliber starting shooting guard play. I’m proud of the way he bounced back from laying an egg in the 2012 playoffs by putting together a couple of the greatest shooting postseason runs this league has ever seen. Along the way, he became an elite defender, a great teammate and a player who kept a positive, wins-focused attitude no matter what. Thanks, Danny. Well done, man.

-I’m not ready to take a deep dive into Kawhi Leonard’s Spurs legacy. (It still hurts :lol) On one hand, the ride was damn fun while it lasted. On the other hand, it’s difficult to forgive Nephew for how things ended. I’m sure the Spurs deserve some blame but to sabotage your trade value by demanding a trade to the archrival Los Angeles Lakers … I mean, I can’t imagine a more villainous ending to what appeared even a year ago to be a perfect marriage between superstar and franchise.

-Let us take a moment to realize that not everyone is built like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Those two are true legends. It takes more than just supreme basketball talent to carry a small market team to championship-relevancy year after year. Gentlemen, Spurs fans are forever grateful.

-Considering the trash offers the Spurs were reportedly getting for Nephew, you can’t be too unhappy with DeMar DeRozan. He’s much better than anyone the Lakers, Clippers or 76ers were offering. He has three years left on his contract and he’s due $27,739,975 per season, with the last season a player-option. While there’s some risk because he could decline physically during that time (he’s turning 29 next month), as it stands he should be worth that amount of money.

-Offensively, DeRozan is elite. Last season, his offensive real plus-minus was +3.42, which ranked 15th in the NBA. His ORPM has been consistently very good the last three seasons. He can create shots for himself in the halfcourt; DeRozan is very capable from all depths inside the three-point line. He has averaged more than 23 points per game for three-straight seasons. Last year, he took a big step forward playmaking-wise. He shattered his career-high by averaging 5.2 assists and was one of the top swingmen in the league in terms of assist-to-turnover ratio. And perhaps best of all, DeRozan is great at getting to the free throw line. He has averaged at least ten attempts per 100 possessions the last five seasons and knocks them down at a nearly 83% clip.

-While a top 20 player in the league on offense, DeRozan isn’t as good as a 100% healthy Nephew on the offensive end. I should make that clear. But speaking of health, that brings me to another positive DeRozan brings to the table: durability. DeRozan has been extremely reliable; his only extended absence in his career was a groin injury back in 2014. He has played 675 of 722 (93.5%) possible regular season games in his career. Nephew, on the other hand, has played in 407 of 558 (72.9%).

-Where DeRozan has been a liability his entire career is on the defensive end. He’s been really bad on that end – and that’s probably putting it kindly. DeRozan’s defensive real plus-minus was a ghastly -1.76 … and that was actually an improvement over his previous campaigns. He has athleticism and length but he’s never been able to be even an adequate defender.

-Fit-wise, I’m less than enthralled. For all of DeRozan’s talents on offense, he’s a poor three-point shooter (28.9% for his career). That’s a rather huge flaw considering he’ll be playing next to the longball-limited Dejounte Murray while occupying the same space LaMarcus Aldridge likes to operate in. Spacing is going to be an issue. A big issue.

(-Speaking of spacing, it now makes a whole lot of sense why the Spurs went with Davis Bertans over Kyle Anderson. The signing of Marco Belinelli also now makes more sense. As constructed, this team needs every perimeter player outside of Murray and DeRozan to be able to shoot if they have any hope of having decent spacing.)

-Pop has his work cut out for him when it comes to making DeRozan decent on D. If Pop can hide him (Murray should help in this matter) and cajole (gently, I’m sure) more effort from him on that end, it’s theoretically possible for DeRozan to become someone who doesn’t kill the Spurs on defense. I wouldn’t bet on it due to DeRozan’s long history of being a sieve, but maybe it could happen.

-In a DeRozan trade, I wanted OG Anunoby to be included. If not OG, then I wanted Pascal Siakam. If not Siakam, I wanted an unprotected first round pick. That said, Jakob Poeltl is a solid young center. Though he was somewhat lost in the Raptors impressive bigman depth, Poeltl is someone you can easily imagine sticking around the Spurs for the next decade.

-Poeltl, a 7-foot-1 center from Austria, has two main strengths: offensive rebounding and shotblocking. He’s top ten in the league in both categories on a per possession basis. Those two numbers alone make him a very interesting prospect. The 22-year-old, even though he’s 250 pounds, is also mobile enough to survive today’s perimeter-oriented NBA. He’s not David Robinson reborn but he can move his feet decently enough. I’ve also been impressed with his basketball IQ in the times I’ve watched him play.

-On the other hand, Poeltl is a shockingly poor defensive rebounder, especially for someone his size. To put it in perspective, his defensive rebounding percentage last season was worse than Gasol, King Joffrey, Murray, Gay, Nephew, Anderson, Aldridge and even Derrick White. How can someone so big and so good on the offensive glass be so pitiful when it comes to rebounding on the defensive end of the court?

-Perhaps even more damning for Poeltl in Pop’s eyes is the fact that he led the league in fouls per minute last season. Pop loathes fouls, even by active bigmen (See: Mahinmi, Ian). Poeltl fouls more than anyone else. That is going to be a rough fit unless the Austrian really improves on that end. Poeltl, even though he can be a sneaky-good passer at times, also turns it over quite a bit for someone who had limited touches with the Raptors. That, too, won’t sit well with Pop.

-Since Poeltl doesn’t have an outside shot, I can’t imagine him starting alongside Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge. That would be a spacing nightmare. But coming off the bench, he could be really useful from Day 1. At 22, he has upside and projects to one day be a possible starter. I wouldn’t be too surprised if he’s starting in three years and giving the Spurs 12 points, ten rebounds and two blocks per game. All in all, Poeltl was definitely a positive asset to get in the Nephew trade.

-I’m hoping even more now for Manu Ginobili to return because Poeltl could be his best pick-and-roll partner since Tiago Splitter was traded. A big guy who sets solid screens and rolls hard will be good for Ginobili as he quarterbacks the bench. And, probably more importantly, Poeltl’s fit on the second unit would be seamless with Ginobili spoon-feeding him. Without Ginobili, he could get lost in the shuffle.

-What will the starting lineup be? I think with the addition of Poeltl, Pau Gasol has to be the starting center, right? That would open up a spot in the rotation for Poeltl and it would help try to mask DeRozan’s defensive weakness. If Pop starts someone like Bertans at power forward and slides Aldridge to center, while that could help offensively spacing-wise, that starting lineup would be really bad defensively – especially since it looks like Mills, Gay or Belinelli would have to round out the starting five.

-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That’s the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing. (Belinelli gets the nod over Gay due to the desperate need for three-point shooting in that lineup and the nod over Mills due to size.) A bench of Mills, Ginobili, Gay, Bertans and Poeltl actually could be pretty strong, honestly.

-I was really hoping for a better haul in the Nephew trade. I can’t try to pretend I’m thrilled with what the Spurs ended up getting. (No OG? No Pascal? Only one highly protected first round pick? Man, that’s tough to swallow.) That said, following the trade, I think the Spurs can win 50-plus games. Are they championship contenders? I’d say it’s fair to call them a dark horse that needs something totally unforeseen (like Murray blossoming into an All-Star in 2019) if they are to reenter that conversation.

-Again, thanks to Danny Green. Poeltl should be a solid piece for a long time. DeRozan will be a breath of fresh air. He’s a good guy by all accounts. In fact, you can make the case he’s been the most loyal and team-first star in the league over the last half decade. No star player has ever shown Toronto any type of loyalty in their history as a franchise. DeRozan never wavered, never looked for greener and less-taxed pastures, and never tried to threaten his way back to Los Angeles. Basketball is again the focus and the playoffs should once again be attainable. I’m not upset about that.



Last east time I gave a damn about reading one of your rambling post it was about how much David West was going to improve the Spurs spacing. I’m gonna go ahead and empty the bank account that spacing won’t be an issue now that you think it will be. Spurs gonna average 109 ppg next season.

[DMC]

The Spurs didn't get a raw deal. The guy they had didn't really want to play for them and probably wasn't going to so it's not like they had a superstar who was willing to put in the time and effort to get San Antonio over the hump. You got to remember what they had was different for them than it is for whoever these guys going to most likely.

[mo7888]

I bet you ten chickens Pop would have rather a Kuz/Ingram combo over DeFrozen. :lol

You would too. In my Debo voice: don't lie :lol

I would rather have that combo but, pop wouldn't. DD is that better player the next couple years and that's probably as far into the future as he is looking.

[DPG21920]

TOR absolutely crushed this trade. It was a homerun even if Kawhi never sets foot in TOR. Spurs definitely caved and I am truly shocked they couldn’t get a better pick and/or OG. I dont blame them, but I am still shocked.

[Killakobe81]

No - those dudes suck and I’m not high on Ingram like others. I think SA still could have been a playoff team with a chance at a younger person developing but they would be worse now with them vs DeRozan IMO.

I think LA screwed the pooch here. They alienated Kawhi and now Ingram/Kuz have to really bust out into stars or they basically run the risk of doing nothing with Lebron. They may get Kawhi or another star, but if the young guys aren’t stars in the next 1-2 years, then it’s not enough and their “upside” trade value goes way down.

Ingram is the one that needs to break out and be a "star".
Kyle just beeds to be a reliable shooter and scorer off the bench.
We did not alienate Kawhi yall FO did.
Hence why you accepted DD and his crappy contract for him.

[DAF86]

The Spurs had a lot of better options if they wanted them (and we know because some have even been reported). The problem is that they overrated DeRozan's value.

[Maddog]

Thanks for the information timvp. Knowing DeMar is more of a driver and jump shooter I'm hoping he'll be a great thing for our shooters, so I can see some small ball with Bertans and even Mills, thought the defensive woes are duly noted. Hopefully the odd thing with Poetli excelling at offensive boards while being weak at defensive boards will steadily improve over the season. Another 7 ft player sounds good!

I was very impressed with Pop's interview and he helped put things in perspective a bit. I'm not too thrilled with Kawhi's behavior and while I won't wish him ill will, I won't be rooting for him. At least some of the drama is over and we can start the new season without that constant narrative. Something tells me Kawhi is already regretting his actions and I'm thrilled he's going to CA north and not CA west.

He did average 5.2 assists last year, gets to the line.
The defense is concerning, we'll see. Not excited. However as DPG21920 said it doesn't look good in a bubble but the Spurs where screwed.
Knowing the Spurs I'm sure they didn't take DeMar just because he was an all star but actually thought about how they where going to use him.

[DPG21920]

Ingram is the one that needs to break out and be a "star".
Kyle just beeds to be a reliable shooter and scorer off the bench.
We did not alienate Kawhi yall FO did.
Hence why you accepted DD and his crappy contract for him.

No, LA did. Just like PG. Im calling it now: Unless LA trades for Kawhi this season, Kawhi will NOT be a Laker.

[tbdog]

Do you think spurs will go for Kembla and Batum now? Probably be hard to match salaries. Both spurs picks will be in the 20s next season.

[Mugen]

Kiwi nothing like "Playoff P"

Kiwi from Killa Cali, yet yall deported him to the North Pole. You think he staying there? :lol

:lol Playoff P from Killa Cali picked living in Methlahoma for the next 4 years over your sorry asses tbh

[slick'81]

I don't think the timing is suspicious at all, the Spurs caved, but at least weren't so cowardly that they gave him go the Lakers. Spurs had the leverage of the USA camp, didn't they still need to give a letter of clearance? Kawhi would have needed to pass a physical. I just think they lost their stomach and their will to do the dirty work. They're just too nice.

And I agree with the posters who claim they got hosed and other posters are rationalizing.

Masai, if Kawhi shows up for even a year, destroyed the Spurs on the court with the best player and off by getting off $30 million in salary if it doesn't work out.

Raptors are the real favorites in the East with a top 3 player, GREAT WING DEFENSE with Kawhi, OG, and Green, good point guard play from their 3 guys, a starting center who was actually good in the playoffs unlike Poeltl, and utility bigs like Siakam and Ibaka and useful players like Miles and Powell. Hats off to Masai, he crushed it. Top 20 protected pick? Easy deal, so easy.


Seriously toronto would be drunk not to take that offer.if this is the best spurs could do it shows you the other offers really were shit

[F7.]

Timvp analysis is why I came back to ST.

GOOD STUFF :hat

[gambit1990]

-i have a real issue with demar. one of my least favorite players in the league. i think he'll be better with the spurs though, i think they'll be able to help him with his game.

-the dude needs mental toughness.

[Killakobe81]

No, LA did. Just like PG. Im calling it now: Unless LA trades for Kawhi this season, Kawhi will NOT be a Laker.

Your "calling it now" takes lately have been about as reliable and consistent as Trump's admission that Russia meddles in US elections.
IF he does not, He does not.
I'll be honest this fiasco along with his injury has given me pause that Kawhi is the answer, especially after seeing how classy Pop was in his pressor.
I believe in Ingram way more than you do obviously and even if he flames out we have Lebron and cap flexibilty.
I'm not sweating the oh might fall in love with toronto angle or he may choose the clippers over us.
He does either of those things he is not the star we need anyways.
Hart upped his value that was the only thing that matter in SL and Svi and Wagner showed flashes.
Kuzma made all rookie first team.
Lonzo gets healthy we have plenty of assets to make a move for another star.
KL is just one option.

[timvp]

By the time I heard the trade was going down, I had rationalized Leonard and Green for DeRozan, OG and Poeltl.

Yeah, OG on top of this trade would have made it much easier to swallow. Without him, it feels light.

But, yeah, with the Lakers refusing to give up anything, the Clippers having nothing, and only Masai having the testicular fortitude to put actual assets on the table, the Spurs didn't have much choice other than to take this deal or let it get extremely messy.

Personally, I would have voted for messy but there's a lot more to the picture than people outside of Pop, RC and Uncle know about.


SA badly needs Murray/Lonnie/White to Pop.

For the Spurs to be elite, they need Murray to take a huge step. In addition to that, they probably need White to turn into a valuable reserve. If Ginobili retires, then they definitely need White to produce.


I don't think the timing is suspicious at all, the Spurs caved, but at least weren't so cowardly that they gave him go the Lakers. Spurs had the leverage of the USA camp, didn't they still need to give a letter of clearance? Kawhi would have needed to pass a physical.

So if Kawhi couldn't pass a physical for the USA camp, his value would have gone down to nothing. If Kawhi fails a physical or goes out there hobbling, the Raptors at the very least take Poeltl and the pick out of the trade.

Maybe the Spurs caved. Maybe Kawhi is broken. It's too early to tell at this point. The timing of the trade has me doubting Kawhi's health (or at least the Spurs' belief in his health) but I could be wrong.

[Pavlov]

I bet you ten chickens Pop would have rather a Kuz/Ingram combo over DeFrozen. :lol

You would too. In my Debo voice: don't lie :lolThat wasn't offered.

[Killakobe81]

:lol Playoff P from Killa Cali picked living in Methlahoma for the next 4 years over your sorry asses tbh

Lakers got Bron/Rondo/Mcgee and Lance but lost Randle and Brook Lopez.
OKC chose staying way over the cap for a team led by Russ/PG and Melo (for now) ...they couls have paid almost the same for a team with KD/Harden and Russ

Spurs turned Kawhi, Danny Green, Kyle Anderson and Enrique in to $83 million of DD, Poetl, a protected 1st, Belli and dante Cuningham :lmao :downspin:

[Killakobe81]

Pop deserves better ...

[Em-City]

We were never going to get the same value in return. Kawhi pooped all over the Spurs. There was no way to recover because of his stupid PR.

Props for keeping us informed on the back room stuff!

[SAS=Kawhi]

Great analysis by timvp. Agree with most of it. Giving up Danny is a tough pill to swallow especially considering the team now has no 3&D proven players. I would've loved to know what would the Raps exclude from their part of the deal if DG wasn't involved.
Right now number one priority should be trying to find someone with some similarities to Dannys game in the trade market (Mills for someone on a equally bad contract that could shoot and defend for example, Snell or Courtney Lee come to mind).
Murray's fit with the current roster is questionable imo at this point. Even though his defense is a much valued comodity with this current squad his lack of shooting is an agravant to the spacing problem. Trading him for someone with similar potential from a quantative standpoint but different qualities would be something worth exploring.

[DPG21920]

Your "calling it now" takes lately have been about as reliable and consistent as Trump's admission that Russia meddles in US elections.
IF he does not, He does not.
I'll be honest this fiasco along with his injury has given me pause that Kawhi is the answer, especially after seeing how classy Pop was in his pressor.
I believe in Ingram way more than you do obviously and even if he flames out we have Lebron and cap flexibilty.
I'm not sweating the oh might fall in love with toronto angle or he may choose the clippers over us.
He does either of those things he is not the star we need anyways.
Hart upped his value that was the only thing that matter in SL and Svi and Wagner showed flashes.
Kuzma made all rookie first team.
Lonzo gets healthy we have plenty of assets to make a move for another star.
KL is just one option.

What :lol? What takes have I missed on?

[Seventyniner]

TOR absolutely crushed this trade. It was a homerun even if Kawhi never sets foot in TOR. Spurs definitely caved and I am truly shocked they couldn’t get a better pick and/or OG. I dont blame them, but I am still shocked.

tbh any team on the other side of the Kawhi trade was going to crush it.

[ducks]

Kiwi nothing like "Playoff P"

Kiwi from Killa Cali, yet yall deported him to the North Pole. You think he staying there? :lol I DOUBT HE STAYS BUT YOU ARE WASTING A YEAR OF JAMES

[raybies]

What the fuck am I reading? Do you guys really think teams are going to gamble on Kawhi? There are already rumors that he's considering sitting the entire 2018 season. This isn't mid-2016, and other teams have eyes and ears. They know Kawhi intentionally took himself out of last season.

This is way, way more than I would have expected us to get given the circumstances. You guys were expecting the moon when we have a headcase of a player who has said he only wants to play for the Lakers. If you were a GM not named Pelinka, would you buy Kawhi right now?

Raptors fans are really upset by this trade. That should tell you all you need to know about the relative value we're giving.
Great post. Most Spurfan here is delusional. Nobody wanted to offer anything. You hope PATFO can pull a trick out of the hat without a hat. We were gonna get waxed no matter what. Duh. Top 3 player doesn't yield equal value ever. The next best offer was a paltry Saric, Covington and pick. LMAO..Just be glad this shit is over and we can move on. All NBA player and 4 time All Star is better than Saric and C:lolvington.

We won 47 games last year and were a couple games out of third in the West. Demar while no playoff monster led his team to first in the East. I think it's safe to say we'll be hovering around 60 wins and top 3 in the West. Houston is weaker and are planning on adding Carmelo lol. We have an outside shot at second. Really feel we are gonna do really well in the season but the playoffs may be a disaster. We'll see if the culture and Pop have any affect on Demar. This is all based on if we are healthy. There is a lot of upside with this team tho depending on what Murray can do and if White can be what we think he can be. Also have a reliable shooter like Marco should help. I think the problem with the shooters was that the missing was contagious. Danny while good on d, hasn't had his stroke in like 3 years. Just need one knock down shooter to release the pressure valve. Good shooting is contagious.

[LkrFan]

Lakers got Bron/Rondo/Mcgee and Lance but lost Randle and Brook Lopez.
OKC chose staying way over the cap for a team led by Russ/PG and Melo (for now) ...they couls have paid almost the same for a team with KD/Harden and Russ

Spurs turned Kawhi, Danny Green, Kyle Anderson and Enrique in to $83 million of DD, Poetl, a protected 1st, Belli and dante Cuningham :lmao :downspin:

:lmao :flag: :lmao

[alpha_HaZE]

Something we need to keep an eye on is whether Kawhi shows up for his physical within the next 48 hours or not and/or whether Toronto waives his physical exam.

I like what the Spurs did. DDR was the BEST player any team offered to us. His defense is a concern, but we are a better team than last year. There is no deny about that. So I expect the Spurs to make the playoffs while developing our young players; DJ, Lonnie, Derrick, Jaron, Metu, Davis, Bryn at least half of them will turn out to be solid NBA players. And if one or two becomes an ALL-STAR say DJ and Lonnie, then we are set.

[Mugen]

Lakers got Bron/Rondo/Mcgee and Lance but lost Randle and Brook Lopez.
OKC chose staying way over the cap for a team led by Russ/PG and Melo (for now) ...they couls have paid almost the same for a team with KD/Harden and Russ

Spurs turned Kawhi, Danny Green, Kyle Anderson and Enrique in to $83 million of DD, Poetl, a protected 1st, Belli and dante Cuningham :lmao :downspin:

:lol What are you going on about? You got that triggered from me saying PG chose Methlahoma over the Lakers which is true.

Killa, you need to make up your mind. either you're coming around here to play nice and hedge on every single take you have or troll grey Spurfan. I don't think you're particularly good at either but this flip flopping has to be difficult for you my man

[Cry Havoc]

No - those dudes suck and I’m not high on Ingram like others. I think SA still could have been a playoff team with a chance at a younger person developing but they would be worse now with them vs DeRozan IMO.

I think LA screwed the pooch here. They alienated Kawhi and now Ingram/Kuz have to really bust out into stars or they basically run the risk of doing nothing with Lebron. They may get Kawhi or another star, but if the young guys aren’t stars in the next 1-2 years, then it’s not enough and their “upside” trade value goes way down.

That's how the Lakers really fucked this up. They're basically putting an entire season of prime LeBron on mortgage because they didn't want to give up young talent.

LeBron + Kawhi could run with any team in the league. But LeBron is leaving his prime soon, and by the time the young bucks are good enough to contend, he'll be on the wrong side of 38.

[Robz4000]

TOR absolutely crushed this trade. It was a homerun even if Kawhi never sets foot in TOR. Spurs definitely caved and I am truly shocked they couldn’t get a better pick and/or OG. I dont blame them, but I am still shocked.

Fuck that, I blame them 100%. The only good thing about this trade is sending Kawhi as far away from LA as possible.

[DPG21920]

^ agreed :lol

Watch, SA will have a better record than LA with Lebron and they will shut up

[LkrFan]

That wasn't offered.

CIA Pop won't say what he wanted from Maginka. But yall wanted the whole farm and future picks from what I read. Boiled down: your hatred for the Lakers netted you 40 cents on the dollar. DeFrozen might not even make the Western Conference all star team, yet you traded your franchise player for him :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

Since we apparently have a slew of people who have direct lines to GMs in this league, what other offers were made for Kawhi? Keep in mind that hearing it on RealGM or Lakersground doesn't count.

[slick'81]

Does derozan make the all star team in the west?

[LkrFan]

:lol Playoff P from Killa Cali picked living in Methlahoma for the next 4 years over your sorry asses tbh

At least Methlahoma is in the states. Kiwi now needs a passport to attend his autism classes after practice. That's some bullshit son :lmao

[DAF86]

Also, White needs to be in the rotation. Him and Murray's possible development are the only things worth looking forward to next season.

[HarlemHeat37]

Also, White needs to be in the rotation. Him and Murray's possible development are the only things worth looking forward to next season.

And Manu, hopefully..

[baseline bum]

Truth bombs. He's still a slightly better 3pt shooter than DeFrozen and a much better defender.

And to give up your franchise player for that shit package? Worse than what we got for Shaq in 2004 IMO. DeFrozen a nice player, but at $27 milli? And he has to battle in the West? Damn. :lol

Shaq didn't sit out the season and say he was only going to one place.

[RsxPiimp]

DeRozan would be your 2nd best player. .
ill take playoff rondo over playoffs derozan :lol

[baseline bum]

At least Methlahoma is in the states. Kiwi now needs a passport to attend his autism classes after practice. That's some bullshit son :lmao

At least that shit will be covered now that he's in a nation with a real healthcare system.

[DAF86]

And Manu, hopefully..

I'm leaning to not wanting Manu back, tbh. I just want the Spurs to get one bonafide SF, at least one.

[LkrFan]

No - those dudes suck and I’m not high on Ingram like others. I think SA still could have been a playoff team with a chance at a younger person developing but they would be worse now with them vs DeRozan IMO.

I think LA screwed the pooch here. They alienated Kawhi and now Ingram/Kuz have to really bust out into stars or they basically run the risk of doing nothing with Lebron. They may get Kawhi or another star, but if the young guys aren’t stars in the next 1-2 years, then it’s not enough and their “upside” trade value goes way down.

Fair points. I don't know about screwing the pooch though. Theory: Ingram and Kuz will both eat well while every team focuses on stopping the Kang. Tatum and Brown feasted for the same reasons playing off of Kyrie.

Instead of being 1st options, they're 2nd/3rd options - not drawing the best perimeter defenders. Teams will put their dobermans on LeBron and rightfully so.

[LkrFan]

At least that shit will be covered now that he's in a nation with a real healthcare system.

:rollin :lmao :rollin

[Pavlov]

CIA Pop won't say what he wanted from Maginka. But yall wanted the whole farm and future picks from what I read. Boiled down: your hatred for the Lakers netted you 40 cents on the dollar. DeFrozen might not even make the Western Conference all star team, yet you traded your franchise player for him :lmaoYou lied about what was offered.

lol

[SpursWoman]

Timvp analysis is why I came back to ST.

GOOD STUFF :hat


Oh, my ... :wow

[LkrFan]

Shaq didn't sit out the season and say he was only going to one place.

Shaq "healed on company time" and derailed our 2003 season. Same diff.

[Cry Havoc]

At least that shit will be covered now that he's in a nation with a real healthcare system.

Ooof, fam. Right in the feels.

And Texas healthcare is awful.

[SpursDynasty85]

Ingram is the one that needs to break out and be a "star".
Kyle just beeds to be a reliable shooter and scorer off the bench.
We did not alienate Kawhi yall FO did.
Hence why you accepted DD and his crappy contract for him.

For some reason I see him signing with the Clippers. If not, oh well. Lebron is getting old and he is definitely on the decline. Kuzma, Ingram, and Hart look good but can they coexist with Lebron? We will see.

[objective]

Yeah, OG on top of this trade would have made it much easier to swallow. Without him, it feels light.

But, yeah, with the Lakers refusing to give up anything, the Clippers having nothing, and only Masai having the testicular fortitude to put actual assets on the table, the Spurs didn't have much choice other than to take this deal or let it get extremely messy.

Personally, I would have voted for messy but there's a lot more to the picture than people outside of Pop, RC and Uncle know about.



For the Spurs to be elite, they need Murray to take a huge step. In addition to that, they probably need White to turn into a valuable reserve. If Ginobili retires, then they definitely need White to produce.



So if Kawhi couldn't pass a physical for the USA camp, his value would have gone down to nothing. If Kawhi fails a physical or goes out there hobbling, the Raptors at the very least take Poeltl and the pick out of the trade.

Maybe the Spurs caved. Maybe Kawhi is broken. It's too early to tell at this point. The timing of the trade has me doubting Kawhi's health (or at least the Spurs' belief in his health) but I could be wrong.

I don't think he would have failed a physical, only refused to take one

And if value went down even more, so what? So instead of a depressed Max player who doesn't play defense, a number 28-30 pick, and a back up center that was abused by the Cavs ... They get nothing? Sounds good to me.

Kawhi isn't hurt, he's healed. None of his actions scream that he's really hurt.

"But, he's sitting out because if he plays and gets hurt he'll cost himself the supermax!" ----. Nope, he demanded a trade away from the team that could give him the supermax

"He's really hurt and that's why he doesn't trust the Spurs medical staff". ---- then why demand a trade to the Lakers, who have screwed up 20 year old Lonzo's knee, instead of demanding a trade to the Suns who are famous for having the best staff in the league?

He's fine. If his health was anything degenerative or performance threatening for the long term, his team of leaches would have taken the Nike, deal, taken the supermax or sought any trade to keep bird rights to lock in that big payday bird max.

The Spurs caved because they're nice guys, way too nice.

Look at what treating Simmons will got them. Morey would have forced him into the Qualifying Offer, so would most GMs. But the Spurs being so nice let him it so he could go get paid. Even now, he has a bum wrist still not healed, and had he entered this market instead he'd be begging for a bi-annual.

But the Spurs were nice, let him go increase his career earnings from what was shaping up to be 5 million to 20 million and live a good lifestyle for him and his 4+ kids.

And how does Simmons treat them now? By shitting on the Spurs with his Kawhi tweets.

That bum was on his way to China and a life of debt and broken dreams without the Spurs' kindness, and he just spit in their face.

That's why they gave in, they're too soft.

[Mugen]

At least Methlahoma is in the states. Kiwi now needs a passport to attend his autism classes after practice. That's some bullshit son :lmao

:lol Not sure if you're serious or not and this has nothing to do with anything Kawhi related....but Toronto is a significantly better city than Oklahoma City...

Have you even been outside the US since entering it? :lol

[LkrFan]

You lied about what was offered.

lol

I didn't lie :lol

Truth be told, we'll never know what was offered. All I know is today's trade seems like a lateral move for the Spurs and strengthened Toronto's grip on the East's top seed. And the fact that Kiwi hates winters gives my boys the chance to battle test our kids then possibly sign Kiwi next summer anyway.

[LkrFan]

:lol Not sure if you're serious or not and this has nothing to do with anything Kawhi related....but Toronto is a significantly better city than Oklahoma City...

Have you even been outside the US since entering it? :lol

:lmao

[timvp]

Does derozan make the all star team in the west?

Pretty damn unlikely due to how stacked the West is. If the Spurs have a top two record and DeRozan is playing better than Aldridge, maybe.


Kawhi should be erased from the Spurs history completely IMO. I don’t care what good he did, he’s a ghost in my eyes. He should be hated, booed and run out of town for the rest of his life. It’s scorched earth mother f*cker and I’m leading the pack.

Can't say I disagree with this.

You couldn't write a uglier fall from grace for what appeared to be a Spurs legend in the making.

I mean, the Lakers? The hell, Nephew.

At least FTL is alive and kicking. I had forgotten they existed after Kobe's pathetic multi-year farewell tour and the subsequent half decade of failed lottery picks.

[Mugen]

Pretty damn unlikely due to how stacked the West is. If the Spurs have a top two record and DeRozan is playing better than Aldridge, maybe.



Can't say I disagree with this.

You couldn't write a uglier fall from grace for what appeared to be a Spurs legend in the making.

I mean, the Lakers? The hell, Nephew.

At least FTL is alive and kicking. I had forgotten they existed after Kobe's pathetic multi-year farewell tour and the subsequent half decade of failed lottery picks.


I was told that Russell, Lonzo, Ingram, and Randle were better picks than KAT, Simmons, Porzingis and Tatum since they got LeBron.

Are you saying that is NOT the case?

[JPB]

I think a poor man's LMA/Gay/DDR big 3 can work and there's enough food for all three of them to eat. Specially with a non scoring PG like Dijon who (kind of surprisingly) will be the heart of the team now with "Who Shall be Not Named", TP, Danny and possibly Manu gone.

Kid has flaws in his game but got heart, balls and accountabiltiy. And he gets along well with LMA.

Gay is the one who is intriguing me. The second year out of an big injury is always better and he'll have a lot of responsability with WSBNN in Hockeyland now.

Poetl is a welcome addition in a depleted area. When was the last time Spurs had a center that looked like one (boards and blocks) ? We'll see if he can make his place.

As irrational as it can be, I can't analyze the value of this trade without integrating the fact PATFO sent WSBNN and the group in their nightmare destination.

Karma is a bish, and something's telling me they haven't finished realizing how much it can be...

[baseline bum]

Shaq "healed on company time" and derailed our 2003 season. Same diff.

Shaq played 67 games and put up 28 and 11. Leonard went AWOL to New York and hid behind his uncle when the Spurs came to see how the rehab was going.

[MoSpur02]

Props for keeping us informed on the back room stuff!

:bobo

[LkrFan]

It’s an awful trade in a bubble, but SA had no really good options.

I really hope SA makes other moves. Use your picks (TOR and your own) to get better now. You won’t have cap space anyways unless you trade Pau/Mills but if you don’t care about FA you can maybe use them and picks to get win-now players that fit better.

Kawhi should be erased from the Spurs history completely IMO. I don’t care what good he did, he’s a ghost in my eyes. He should be hated, booed and run out of town for the rest of his life. It’s scorched earth mother f*cker and I’m leading the pack.

In fact, I am planning on quitting my job, leaving my wife and buying tickets to every Raps game this season so I can relentlessly heckle Kawhi until he breaks.

If Kiwi gets erased, so does your 2014 rang. Boiled down: Kobe 5, Duncan 4.

:downspin:

[gambit1990]

Does derozan make the all star team in the west?
yes.

[baseline bum]

Timvp analysis is why I came back to ST.

GOOD STUFF :hat

You be the hotdog

[baseline bum]

Props for keeping us informed on the back room stuff!

Bend over. I'll show you some back room stuff.

[spurs10]

I think the idea of getting an All Star and and a big with potential was as good as they were seeing and it's clear now it was "time" to part with nephew and crew.

[Pavlov]

I didn't lie :lol

Truth be told, we'll never know what was offered.lol walking back

[polandprzem]

How do you want to hide Derozan bad defense? With Belli, Mills running around? Murray is not that great either to cover for him.

[Killakobe81]

What :lol? What takes have I missed on?

Josh Jackson will be good for one ... did you see him shoot in SL?!

[timvp]

I was told that Russell, Lonzo, Ingram, and Randle were better picks than KAT, Simmons, Porzingis and Tatum since they got LeBron.

Are you saying that is NOT the case?

:lol

Tbh, LeBron saw how the Lakers gleefully bent over to accommodate the extended Kobe farewell tour so he decided to retire to that gig. Can't blame him. He has a lot of miles. He must be tired.

[HarlemHeat37]

What's funny is that the Spurs now have 2 players that finished 4th and 5th in MVP voting last season, yet few are excited about it(and rightfully so) :lol

[ducks]

What's funny is that the Spurs now have 2 players that finished 4th and 5th in MVP voting last season, yet few are excited about it(and rightfully so) :lol

IF GS WAS NOT IN THE NBA THINK THEY WOULD BE

[Seventyniner]

What's funny is that the Spurs now have 2 players that finished 4th and 5th in MVP voting last season, yet few are excited about it(and rightfully so) :lol

MVP votes are all about counting stats.

[ducks]

MVP votes are all about counting stats.

IF TEAMS DID NOT WIN DOES NOT MATTER MUST MAKE PLAYOFFS

[Dex]

How do you want to hide Derozan bad defense? With Belli, Mills running around? Murray is not that great either to cover for him.

Spurs had the third best defense last year despite Mills, Fathead, Gasol, Old Man Parker, Joff, Hobbit Forbes etc...playing significant minutes.

Losing Green will hurt, but Pop and co. seriously don't get enough credit for having a defensive scheme that manages to be successful despite the sum of its pieces.

They aren't going to be a great defensive team, but they shouldn't be awful either. I expect the system will make Derozan look like a much better defender than he has been historically.

[baseline bum]

What's funny is that the Spurs now have 2 players that finished 4th and 5th in MVP voting last season, yet few are excited about it(and rightfully so) :lol

8th and 9th

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2018.html

[HarlemHeat37]

IF TEAMS DID NOT WIN DOES NOT MATTER MUST MAKE PLAYOFFS

Why are you yelling so much today?

[baseline bum]

:lol

Tbh, LeBron saw how the Lakers gleefully bent over to accommodate the extended Kobe farewell tour so he decided to retire to that gig. Can't blame him. He has a lot of miles. He must be tired.

:lol

[DPG21920]

Josh Jackson will be good for one ... did you see him shoot in SL?!

I said I would prefer Jackson over Ingram/Kuz in a deal. And he can still be good. He’s not a shooter; hes a slasher and defender.

[LkrFan]

lol walking back

SMH - shouldn't you be in the political forum? :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

8th and 9th

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2018.html

That makes more sense, I was going off NBA.com's awards article..

Oladipo 13th is a travesty, wow..

[baseline bum]

I said I would prefer Jackson over Ingram/Kuz in a deal. And he can still be good. He’s not a shooter; hes a slasher and defender.

I'd prefer Jesse Jackson to Ingram tbh

[ducks]

Why are you yelling so much today?

terrible seeing leonard leave I wanted him back with the max
oh well spurs got the most they could get

[Mugen]

I'd prefer Jesse Jackson to Ingram tbh

I'd have taken Joe Jackson over Kuzma.

[baseline bum]

I'd have taken Joe Jackson over Kuzma.

I'd take Michael Jackson over Hart, and Janet over Randle.

[Cry Havoc]

"He's really hurt and that's why he doesn't trust the Spurs medical staff". ---- then why demand a trade to the Lakers, who have screwed up 20 year old Lonzo's knee, instead of demanding a trade to the Suns who are famous for having the best staff in the league?

Because it has very little to do with the Lakers coaching staff and everything to do with living it up in LA. Kawhi doesn't care that much about ball -- dude just wants to be on the beach.

Would be hilarious if the Lakers got him and he half-assed it for the rest of his career. He already proved he doesn't care about winning or getting better as a player.

[Russ]

How do you want to hide Derozan bad defense? With Belli, Mills running around? Murray is not that great either to cover for him.

When Murray was drafted he was considered a high-upside offensive talent with no D whatsoever.

He was utterly atrocious on D in college -- people on this board either never knew that or have forgotten it.

Now, Murray is almost considered a defensive specialist. It was a transformative coaching job only surpassed by what the Spurs did for Leonard.

The Spurs will elevate Derozan's game significantly on D.

[daslicer]

At least Methlahoma is in the states. Kiwi now needs a passport to attend his autism classes after practice. That's some bullshit son :lmao

:lol I have heard Canada has better government programs to help the mentally challenged.

[polandprzem]

Spurs had the third best defense last year despite Mills, Fathead, Gasol, Old Man Parker, Joff, Hobbit Forbes etc...playing significant minutes.

Losing Green will hurt, but Pop and co. seriously don't get enough credit for having a defensive scheme that manages to be successful despite the sum of its pieces.

They aren't going to be a great defensive team, but they shouldn't be awful either. I expect the system will make Derozan look like a much better defender than he has been historically.

Okay so we will be okay on defense and when playoffs comes it won't matter. With kawhi and green spurs are the best defensive team. Also Leonard is one of the few guys in the league that can hold pace of the game which is superbly important vs likes of GS.


Anyway no matter how you slice it. Losing Leonard we lost chance on fighting for the trophy

[Killakobe81]

8th and 9th

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2018.html

I figured that was wrong.

[Killakobe81]

I'd prefer Jesse Jackson to Ingram tbh

You damn, liberal!!!

[TD 21]

- Obviously the circumstances and context need to be taken into account, but even then, to not come away with Anunoby or at least Siakam, a lesser protected 1st or a protected '20 1st, is a significant loss.

- Excluding superstars and stars, big wing/combo forwards, who can provide 3 and D, even with limited off the dribble/play making chops, are the most coveted commodity in the game and they don't have one on their roster nor a clear path to getting one any time soon. Gay is the only listed SF period and he's about as much of one as Anthony is nowadays.

- They've basically resigned themselves to being somewhere in the 3-10 logjam of the West, with an absolute peak of a 2nd round team (probably 1st, though).

- The starters (expect Cunningham and Gasol to start) will have atrocious spacing and the bench, as well as closing lineups, will have atrocious wing defense. They'll always be sacrificing one or the other in a futile attempt to find the right combinations and Bertans, despite his cost, projects as the 11th man

- They've basically become the Raptors, both in build (overrun with C's and guards) and pre '17-'18 style, only they'll be in a tougher conference.

[Killakobe81]

I'd take Michael Jackson over Hart, and Janet over Randle.

And you will take Derozan over Kawhi ...and like it.
I went back we were discussing Tatum and Jaylen brown to start this dance ...
Yet it is now DD and Poetl.

[Dex]

Anyway no matter how you slice it. Losing Leonard we lost chance on fighting for the trophy

You're not wrong there, but that was the case as soon as Leonard decided he wanted out of San Antonio. There is not a single piece they were going to get back for him that was going to allow them to compete with GSW, especially after he completely trashed his trade value.

The Spur made the most of a bad situation. I don't think Pop wants or deserves to coach a rebuild during his waning tenure, so they did what they needed to do keep the team semi-competitive and profitable.

People have been calling for the Spurs to hit the reset button since 2010, and they still don't seem to be in a rush to do it.

[Killakobe81]

I said I would prefer Jackson over Ingram/Kuz in a deal. And he can still be good. He’s not a shooter; hes a slasher and defender.

Jackson for KL is almost as bad as DD but at least he is cheaper and plays defense.

[Stabula]

Kawhi Leonard is a 1 year rental and has a diseased leg. In other words he's as close to worthless as it gets and everyone in the league knows this. Everyone should be thankful that they were able to get an all-star player and a promising bigman for him. You really think a professional sports franchise with as much money at stake as there is would open the vault for a 1 year rental of a diseased player with a cancerous uncle? Open your eyes and look at this realistically you fucking clowns.

[RsxPiimp]

Does derozan make the all star team in the west?
he’s not even good enough to be invited for a skills challenge :lol

[baseline bum]

And you will take Derozan over Kawhi ...and like it.
I went back we were discussing Tatum and Jaylen brown to start this dance ...
Yet it is now DD and Poetl.

Yeah but that was to send him to a team he might have wanted to go to that had great assets. This is to send him somewhere he'd never want play that didn't have a whole lot to offer.

[InRareForm]

What was the best Lakers offer?

[StrengthAndHonor]

What was the best Lakers offer?
Forget the Lakers, the Clippers offered a better package and they rejected it simply because they don't want to send Leonard home.

[exstatic]

I heard a rumor that the physical was waived.

NICE! Yet another avenue blocked for The Group.

[99 Problems]

Pick 9 a 7”1’ fast developing big and DDR a 28yo 2nd team all NBA guy considering the position Spurs were in.... I’m very happy today.

[StrengthAndHonor]

he’s not even good enough to be invited for a skills challenge :lol
:lmao

[superbigtime]

am in disbelief

[exstatic]

I've heard mills has positive value from several people so packaging him with a pick or two should be attractive to someone our there. I have no idea who we should target right now but, they better be proficient from 3.

Philly? Mills and TOR 1st for Covington? Or will they still be too asshurt from missing out on Nephew?

[exstatic]

I'm flat out surprised Maginka held onto the kids. They hardly ever grow from within.

That being said, if things aren't quite clicking by February it would be incompetent for them not to make a few phone calls tbh.

Don't bother with Toronto. They'll want no part of Deng, and that's the only unencumbered salary you have on the books. None of your one year rentals will want any part of a Toronto detonation, and you need their permission to trade them.

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

It's transition time and for most teams that means out of the playoffs. Ask the Twolves how it's been. Spurs transition will be 6-7 seed for next few years. No one is beating GSW this year. KL going to the East is great. And unless someone saw an actual offer from another team everything that was said to be offered was just speculation. DD is a solid addition to current roster.

Those fans that we were going to get five first round picks and some bundle of you guys superstars were fooling themselves...

[polandprzem]

You're not wrong there, but that was the case as soon as Leonard decided he wanted out of San Antonio. There is not a single piece they were going to get back for him that was going to allow them to compete with GSW, especially after he completely trashed his trade value.

The Spur made the most of a bad situation. I don't think Pop wants or deserves to coach a rebuild during his waning tenure, so they did what they needed to do keep the team semi-competitive and profitable.

People have been calling for the Spurs to hit the reset button since 2010, and they still don't seem to be in a rush to do it.

Here we have it. kawhi just quit on organization that gave him the best learning he could have IMO.
It looks like his value just went down after all the drama and we have no idea what really was going on. Strange how Pop could not reach terms with leonard. It seems not that long ago he called him the best player on the planet.


That is devastating

[mo7888]

Philly? Mills and TOR 1st for Covington? Or will they still be too asshurt from missing out on Nephew?

Probably too asshurt.

[LkrFan]

Don't bother with Toronto. They'll want no part of Deng, and that's the only unencumbered salary you have on the books. None of your one year rentals will want any part of a Toronto detonation, and you need their permission to trade them.

Just like Pop needed Kiwi's permission? :lol

[palangi]

The worst part is that this is a wing league. And we stuck on the wing. We have a shit load of guards.
Are we expecting Gay and Blossomgame to be our wings next year? Or undersized belinelli? Or undersized and old Manu?

Pop is going to roll out his Mills, Forbes, Derozan back court a lot I fear. We are going to be paying with 6'4-6'6"wings or SF a lot.

We are such an ass backwards franchise sometimes. And CIA pop is now loony pop

[SpursDynasty85]

Pretty much means the other teams were not offering their best stuff.

[Russ]

Wouldn't it be kinda funny if Kawhi is so beat-down after this year, he's be forced to opt in for another year with Team Canada just to get paid at all.

[T Park]

For a team that had zero leverage at all this was a decent deal.

I agree OG on top makes it more palatable but what’s Toronto’s desire to drop him for... who?

[Marcus Bryant]

Wouldn't it be kinda funny if Kawhi is so beat-down after this year, he's be forced to opt in for another year with Team Canada just to get paid at all.

At some point he'll have to demonstrate that he can actually play. The more time that passes from when he last played in a game, the more it hurts him. Yes, there were contributing factors to why he wasn't drawing serious trade offers, but if he had just finished playing a full season at a high level before his trade demand there would have been substantially better offers.

That the Spurs chose to move him at all should be a red flag to the rest of the league.

[OldMan88]

Anyone want to bet the Spurs team doctors were right all along that injury was chronic and the pain needed to be managed? I don’t think he’ll be fully healthy going forward.

The other possibility is that KL & uncle are just dumber than a box of rocks.

[pad300]

Just like Pop needed Kiwi's permission? :lol

No, not like that at all, it's built into the CBA for a 1 year contract, the player gets a built in No Trade Clause he has to waive...

[Strategic]

Since the Spurs haven’t had KL’s services for more than a year, it looks like Pop just traded Danny Green for Demar Derozan and a young serviceable big. Quite an improvement from last years team. It’s Go Spurs Go!!!!!!, not cry baby cry.

[DPG21920]

I am fine with Kawhi balling out in TOR. Hopefully he stomps on PHI and makes them feel like idiots for not taking their shot. Hopefully he loves it in TOR and spurns LA after their hubris and publicly slapping Kawhi in the face.

[LkrFan]

I am fine with Kawhi balling out in TOR. Hopefully he stomps on PHI and makes them feel like idiots for not taking their shot. Hopefully he loves it in TOR and spurns LA after their hubris and publicly slapping Kawhi in the face.

Nope:

1019744093491093504

:lol

[DPG21920]

If Kawhi is healthy and balls out, man, SA will have gotten fleeced. I understand context, but I am truly shocked that TOR was able to not even give up a legit first rounder in a deal. Shocked. There was obviously a level of panic in this deal and ONLY if Kawhi is a shell of himself is that panic justified.

[GrapplingYautja]

It's a marvelous trade regarding the circumstances.

And any Laker fan in here can eat a dick.

Keep Deng and fuck boys Hart, Kuzma. They have a year to write some poems for Kawhi just like they did Paul George...ahahahahaha! Oh, maybe offer Kawhi a part in Space Jam 2.

[Slippy]

Great post. Most Spurfan here is delusional. Nobody wanted to offer anything. You hope PATFO can pull a trick out of the hat without a hat. We were gonna get waxed no matter what. Duh. Top 3 player doesn't yield equal value ever. The next best offer was a paltry Saric, Covington and pick. LMAO..Just be glad this shit is over and we can move on. All NBA player and 4 time All Star is better than Saric and C:lolvington.

We won 47 games last year and were a couple games out of third in the West. Demar while no playoff monster led his team to first in the East. I think it's safe to say we'll be hovering around 60 wins and top 3 in the West. Houston is weaker and are planning on adding Carmelo lol. We have an outside shot at second. Really feel we are gonna do really well in the season but the playoffs may be a disaster. We'll see if the culture and Pop have any affect on Demar. This is all based on if we are healthy. There is a lot of upside with this team tho depending on what Murray can do and if White can be what we think he can be. Also have a reliable shooter like Marco should help. I think the problem with the shooters was that the missing was contagious. Danny while good on d, hasn't had his stroke in like 3 years. Just need one knock down shooter to release the pressure valve. Good shooting is contagious.

Pretty much my thoughts. Gotta add we got guys in Derozan & Walker who can breakdown defenses from the perimeter. An aspect of their offense thats been sorely missing from the spurs of last season.

Also , Ultimately the locker room will be back to harmony & the lakers will continue to suck. Spurs are back people.

[NameLess Scrub]

In a way, Kawhi forcing the Spurs to trade him for 2 kit Kats and a Dr pepper helps him basketball wise. His new team wasn't ripped so he can have a chance to get to the finals.

If they get MVP Kawhi, they might just reach the finals and have a lucky chance to beat the warriors if all circumstances fall in place like 2016.

So for all that will just jump to the raptors bandwagon (and forum), you now have a reason to be excited and to motivate raptors fans upset about this trade, even if only for next season.

[ceperez]

If Kawhi is healthy and balls out, man, SA will have gotten fleeced. I understand context, but I am truly shocked that TOR was able to not even give up a legit first rounder in a deal. Shocked. There was obviously a level of panic in this deal and ONLY if Kawhi is a shell of himself is that panic justified.

(1) Kawhi comes packaged with an uncle Dennis.
(2) TOR had an opportunity here for a salary dump. They did so and even if Leonard stays for just a year, then they are good.
(3) TOR can always trade Kawhi back to an LA team and get something.
(4) Spurs got a 28 year old all star and a lottery pick center.
(5) TOR have a good chance of getting to the finals with LBJ out off the east.

Looks like a decent deal for both teams. If anything, Spurs got the worse deal by losing Green. They may have no choice because the Spurs always like to have players learn the system from the beginning of the year rather than come in the middle of the year.

Biggest loser, Leonard... no supermax.... moved to Country with higher tax bracket.

[NameLess Scrub]

Pretty much my thoughts. Gotta add we got guys in Derozan & Walker who can breakdown defenses from the perimeter. An aspect of their offense thats been sorely missing from the spurs of last season.

Also , Ultimately the locker room will be back to harmony & the lakers will continue to suck. Spurs are back people.

Lakers will sweep the Spurs at the first chance. Spurs might win 1, but only because we didn't get Lowry.

[L.I.T]

1. Kawhi has a serious degenerative leg injury that limited him to 9 games.
2. Kawhi had a serious leg injury and held himself out of an unknown amount of games after repeatedly lying to his teammates and front office about his return.

Even excluding Kawhi’s efforts to undermine and torpedo his trade value in an amateurish attempt to pressure the Spurs into trading him to the Lakers (even floating he won’t report to Toronto this week), those two scenarios are enough to depress his trade value tremendously. Spurs got hosed in a trade for 2016 Kawhi. They salvaged something decent for 2018 Kawhi.

[Marcus Bryant]

1. Kawhi has a serious degenerative leg injury that limited him to 9 games.
2. Kawhi had a serious leg injury and held himself out of an unknown amount of games after repeatedly lying to his teammates and front office about his return.

Even excluding Kawhi’s efforts to undermine and torpedo his trade value in an amateurish attempt to pressure the Spurs into trading him to the Lakers (even floating he won’t report to Toronto this week), those two scenarios are enough to depress his trade value tremendously. Spurs got hosed in a trade for 2016 Kawhi. They salvaged something decent for 2018 Kawhi.

Yeah, there's something more here. A scenario that the injury is worse than let on, or career limiting in some way does not seem far-fetched. Keep in mind that Philly had really good intel on his health and they were offering nothing.

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

1. Kawhi has a serious degenerative leg injury that limited him to 9 games.
2. Kawhi had a serious leg injury and held himself out of an unknown amount of games after repeatedly lying to his teammates and front office about his return.

Even excluding Kawhi’s efforts to undermine and torpedo his trade value in an amateurish attempt to pressure the Spurs into trading him to the Lakers (even floating he won’t report to Toronto this week), those two scenarios are enough to depress his trade value tremendously. Spurs got hosed in a trade for 2016 Kawhi. They salvaged something decent for 2018 Kawhi.

Have to view trade through this lense. I think most feel scenario #2 is true, but regardless you are either getting a guy who will probably have future injury issues or a guy with serious baggage who quit on his teammates who fought despite all the drama to get into the playoffs

[ceperez]

Yeah, there's something more here. A scenario that the injury is worse than let on, or career limiting in some way does not seem far-fetched. Keep in mind that Philly had really good intel on his health and they were offering nothing.

Well, hard to tell about Philly considering that they are headless without a GM.

Honestly, the big problem is Uncle Dennis. What player does not back his team up when they get to the playoffs?

[DPG21920]

Yeah, there's something more here. A scenario that the injury is worse than let on, or career limiting in some way does not seem far-fetched. Keep in mind that Philly had really good intel on his health and they were offering nothing.

Then why wouldn’t Kawhi have acted in his own best interest and get as much from SA as he could?

[Marcus Bryant]

Then why wouldn’t Kawhi have acted in his own best interest and get as much from SA as he could?

SA knew too much.

[Slippy]

Lakers will sweep the Spurs at the first chance. Spurs might win 1, but only because we didn't get Lowry.

Reckon you selling the spurs team short here. There will be no disruptions this coming season so i like our chances of playing better

[DPG21920]

Unreal fleecing by TOR. No OG. No Siakem. Terrible pick. Have to include Danny. And send them money :lol? What?



1019762309097549831

[Ron Swanson]

Yikes. $5M on top of that? Oh well.

[spursistan]

Yeah, there's something more here. A scenario that the injury is worse than let on, or career limiting in some way does not seem far-fetched. Keep in mind that Philly had really good intel on his health and they were offering nothing.
Good point. Something just doesn't add up..

Really Philly? you got beat by Boston in 5 games without its 2 best players and you're still going to pass on a Top 5 player because of Markelle fuckin' Fultz?

[loveforthegame]

JFC. Had to send them money too? :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Good point. Something just doesn't add up..

Really Philly? you got beat by Boston in 5 games without its 2 best players and you're still going to pass on a Top 5 player because of Markelle fuckin' Fultz?

Yep. Even a 1 yr rental could put them in the Finals and of course people change their mind all the time. If Paul George can learn to love OKC... Anyways, in time the truth will come out and this sordid tale will make sense.

[barbacoataco]

Is DeRozan really that worthless?
Why do people act like some mid level 1st round pick would have been better? Unless you're getting a top 3 pick most of those guys don't even go on to be effective players.

The Spurs don't want to go the route if intentionally sucking for a few years hoping to land a lottery pick. That doesn't work most of the time and your fans leave in the meantime.

Go Spurs. Leonard will be cold in Canada in the winter.

[Slippy]

Have to view trade through this lense. I think most feel scenario #2 is true, but regardless you are either getting a guy who will probably have future injury issues or a guy with serious baggage who quit on his teammates who fought despite all the drama to get into the playoffs

100percent correct. Thats after making to the WCs the previous season. Who in their right mind does that. Spurs wanted out, they wanted no part of Kawhis group tactics for another seasons. He & his group were toxic.

Like someon else just posted. The spurs got the best deal, raptors go their deal & kawhi didnt.:bobo

[SpurOutofTownFan]

shit i used to wait for classic timvp takes after games a very long time ago - good to see one of these from time to time again

[ceperez]

100percent correct. Thats after making to the WCs the previous season. Who in their right mind does that. Spurs wanted out, they wanted no part of Kawhis group tactics for another seasons. He & his group were toxic.

Like someon else just posted. The spurs got the best deal, raptors go their deal & kawhi didnt.:bobo

Exactly. Spurs got an all star. Raptors got a salary dump. Kawhi and group lost $81million, not including paying more taxes.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm still waiting to here about all these great deals the Spurs were offered that they passed on.

[spursistan]

Lowe and Arnovitz in their podcast from today are liking the trade for the Raptors while conceding, on the coolest of cool, that the Spurs got hammered. Can't argue with that, tbh..

[tholdren]

Hated him post-contract, but god damn, in a league where PJ Tucker and Bojan Bogdanovic net you first round picks.... you use him as filler in a trade?!?!

Just when you thought RC couldn't get any dumber.

What did green do? Thats right, he got a couple of highlight blocks for fans. Couldnt pass couldnt dribble, was the last option of any scoring threat...... worse than allen

[024]

Pretty sure Sixers or Clippers could have put together a better package. I'm really surprised the Clippers did not offer anything better, especially since Leonard could easily stay there. This was just one giant fuck you to Leonard and the Lakers so I can't be too mad. Plus, you can't blame Pop for not wanting to rebuild during his final years. Let him coach and have a few more playoff runs.

Only thing that I'm truly mad about is not including Gasol or Patty for some cap relief and shipping out a good wing defender and mediocre/decent 3pt shooter that could have gone well next to DeRozan.

[spursistan]

If Kawhi is healthy and balls out, man, SA will have gotten fleeced. I understand context, but I am truly shocked that TOR was able to not even give up a legit first rounder in a deal. Shocked.There was obviously a level of panic in this deal and ONLY if Kawhi is a shell of himself is that panic justified.
I'm starting to feel like there is something legit there-- corroborated by Philly's puzzling cold feet, especially since we know they share similar intel regarding his health.

[dbreiden83080]

I heard a rumor that the physical was waived.

He will be boarding a plane to NY any moment. Hiding in a closet on arrival..

[slick'81]

Unreal fleecing by TOR. No OG. No Siakem. Terrible pick. Have to include Danny. And send them money :lol? What?



1019762309097549831

wow spurs were like "please take this mofo"

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm starting to feel like there is something legit there-- corroborated by Philly's puzzling cold feet, especially since we know they share similar intel regarding his health.

Hence the rush to get him to a large market ASAP for the shoe deal. Players move in free agency all the time, why the rush a year out?

[LakerHater]

DeRozan gonna turn 29 nxt month

[Cry Havoc]

Lowe and Arnovitz in their podcast from today are liking the trade for the Raptors while conceding, on the coolest of cool, that the Spurs got hammered. Can't argue with that, tbh..

Pelton gave us a bad grade, which means we did a fantastic job on this trade.

[coachmac87]

If Kawhi is healthy and balls out, man, SA will have gotten fleeced. I understand context, but I am truly shocked that TOR was able to not even give up a legit first rounder in a deal. Shocked. There was obviously a level of panic in this deal and ONLY if Kawhi is a shell of himself is that panic justified.

Well apparently Toronto backed out due to his health concerns...so maybe there’s legit concern throughout the league? I mean did Kawhi really search for multiple Doctors? Seems a little suspicious tbh and maybe he’s damaged goods.

Spurs got fleeced by not getting a Wing defender or a player that can develop into one. But they absolutely won in getting a win now player LOCKED IN for 2-3 years

Spurs are by far a better team than last year...not championship caliber but tbh there’s maybe 3 teams and that’s if you’re including Houston.

I do believe Spurs could make more moves to make the pieces fit better with guards/wings....for example Murray-DeRozan aren’t a great fit.

[therealtruth]

DeRozan gonna turn 29 nxt month

They traded WingStop which you need to beat the Warriors or Rockets for Demar Depression. How does this help better matchup with Steph, Klay, and Durant?

[BatManu20]

They traded WingStop which you need to beat the Warriors or Rockets for Demar Depression. How does this help better matchup with Steph, Klay, and Durant?

This team wasn't beating the warriors anytime soon regardless tbh :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Get to large market and get signature shoe deal before having to actually show up on a NBA court again. Spurs likely weren't offering anything close to the supermax knowing what they knew. That the Spurs were even seriously talking about trading him should have raised red flags, in addition to all the various rumors and demands floating around.

[therealtruth]

This team wasn't beating the warriors anytime soon regardless tbh :lol

At least with Kawhi and Danny you had a chance defensively.

[BatManu20]

:claw


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dib4PCfVMAAE8MT.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm still waiting to here about all these great deals the Spurs were offered that they passed on.

:tu

'We could've had Fultz....'

[Cry Havoc]

At least with Kawhi and Danny you had a chance defensively.

Curry
Klay
Durant
Green
Boogie

What team in fucking history is going to beat them? FFS they would beat the piss out of some all-time great teams.

[DPG21920]

Not about other deals, but this TOR one. Even knowing what we know, all things considered it definitely feels like RC bent a hell of a lot here.

Would TOR really have walked away if SA said “look if you aren’t putting in one of your two best young prospects the pick is only top 10 protected”?

Or “look, we want OG or no deal”?

Seems panicky by SA and regardless of if Kawhi is injured TOR baked in all that risk and then some.

[FkLA]

Unreal fleecing by TOR. No OG. No Siakem. Terrible pick. Have to include Danny. And send them money :lol? What?



1019762309097549831

Why is it a fleecing, bruh? I think they made the deal with the assumption that it's a 1-year rental. Their motivation behind the deal was to shed DeRozan's contract not some unrealistic hope of keeping Kawhi. If they somehow manage to keep Kawhi around then sure it's a fleecing but there's nothing out of the ordinary for what is essentially a salary dump.

[DPG21920]

Why is it a fleecing, bruh? I think they made the deal with the assumption that it's a 1-year rental. Their motivation behind the deal was to shed DeRozan's deal not some unrealistic hope of keeping Kawhi.

Sure. But not even giving a legit first or one of their top prospects along with getting Danny’s expiring too?

[Marcus Bryant]

Panicky? They've been shopping this mofo for what, six weeks? Former top 5 player or whatever on the trade block and they've been drawing nothing to date. That should tell you plenty. Even with it being a one year rental. How many teams wouldn't ante up if say a Durant or James or Davis was available, even for 1 year with a chance to sell him on the team?

[Hoops Czar]

Unreal fleecing by TOR. No OG. No Siakem. Terrible pick. Have to include Danny. And send them money :lol? What?



1019762309097549831

What do you mean, what? You're the one who said this is best FO in professional sports. You tell me what they were thinking. It certainly doesn't appear from the naked eye the Spurs standards were high and they were out there shopping for the best offer.

[FkLA]

Sure. But not even giving a legit first or one of their top prospects along with getting Danny’s expiring too?

I look at it as it being a unique salary dump. Unique in the sense that the player being "dumped" is still valuable and honestly worth his contract. This isn't Mozgov or Deng that's being dumped. Sure, they get a Top 3 player for half a season/or a full season but that doesn't really matter unless he stays beyond that.

I wanted OG too, thought he was going to be included but if I'm being objective it kind of makes no sense for TOR to attach high-level assets just to dump a guy that still has a lot of value.

[DPG21920]

Panicky? They've been shopping this mofo for what, six weeks? Former top 5 player or whatever on the trade block and they've been drawing nothing to date. That should tell you plenty. Even with it being a one year rental. How many teams wouldn't ante up if say a Durant or James or Davis was available, even for 1 year with a chance to sell him on the team?

Ya. You are telling me that you aren’t surprised, honestly, that this is how the deal shook out? The pick protection, the cash, the young player, Danny being included?

I get it. SA was in a tough spot because of Kawhi. His value was depressed big time.

I don’t get your issue with the word. You yourself think Kawhi is damaged goods and SA had to make a move asap before word truly got out.

[Marcus Bryant]

Raptors had hit their ceiling with the current group. Even with James out of the EC the top 2 are Boston and Philly. Definitely a gamble in moving a healthy DeRozan for a disgruntled Leonard coming off missing 73 games in a season with all the drama (still strange) which has happened in SA. Maybe somehow Leonard learns to love Toronto? If not, oh well, players leave in free agency all the time and they, yes, just shed a large financial commitment for 2019-21.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ya. You are telling me that you aren’t surprised, honestly, that this is how the deal shook out? The pick protection, the cash, the young player, Danny being included?

I get it. SA was in a tough spot because of Kawhi. His value was depressed big time.

I don’t get your issue with the word. You yourself think Kawhi is damaged goods and SA had to make a move asap before word truly got out.


At this point I am not surprised. What was the best rumored offer previously? Covington, Saric and the Sixers' 1st? Tobias Harris and two mid 1st round picks? There was nothing else attractive out there. It speaks volumes that the Spurs pulled the trigger on this deal. There was no relationship, maybe there's also no longer the player he used to be. Getting worked up about if this deal could've had a little more gloss on it, given that the people who are actually negotiating this shit do think to ask for more, is silly. All that remains to be seen is the truth when it comes out about Leonard's health and the relationship. Playing hide and go seek with team personnel when they came to check in on the 'rehab' says plenty. Fire selling his ass to the closest place in the NBA to Siberia also says plenty.

[ace3g]

I wonder if the Jakob Poeltl aspect of the trade is early recruiting for Kuzma - his teammate at Utah

[GrapplingYautja]

I wonder if the Jakob Poeltl aspect of the trade is early recruiting for Kuzma - his teammate at Utah

You're kidding, right? The way that fuck boy acts you'd THINK he's from Cali.

[Leetonidas]

:claw


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dib4PCfVMAAE8MT.jpg

:lol

[DPG21920]

At this point I am not surprised. What was the best rumored offer previously? Covington, Saric and the Sixers' 1st? Tobias Harris and two mid 1st round picks? There was nothing else attractive out there. It speaks volumes that the Spurs pulled the trigger on this deal. There was no relationship, maybe there's also no longer the player he used to be. Getting worked up about if this deal could've had a little more gloss on it, given that the people who are actually negotiating this shit do think to ask for more, is silly. All that remains to be seen is the truth when it comes out about Leonard's health and the relationship. Playing hide and go seek with team personnel when they came to check in on the 'rehab' says plenty. Fire selling his ass to the closest place in the NBA to Siberia also says plenty.

I get it. Im not complaining. I’m commenting on the deal and I’m fine with how SA did all things considered. I’m saying TOR killed it. It’s ok as a Spurs fan to say TOR did really damn well all things considered even if SA did ok too.

[therealtruth]

Bad moves. Kawhi's value is pretty low because no one has seen him play in a year. The smart move would have been to bring him back to at least bring up his trade value. Also winning cures all so you never know. Pop was going to coach him on USA basketball anyway. This is a classic control move by Pop. He doesn't like not being in control of the situation.

[Vic Petro]

Sad day. Derozan is fine. Poetl is a fringe rotation guy.

48-50 Raptor wins is the sweet spot for maximizing value of the pick.

Kids better grow up quick.

[cjw]

Bad moves. Kawhi's value is pretty low because no one has seen him play in a year. The smart move would have been to bring him back to at least bring up his trade value. Also winning cures all so you never know. Pop was going to coach him on USA basketball anyway. This is a classic control move by Pop. He doesn't like not being in control of the situation.

Or maybe PATFO guesses he’s not going to look the same and it would have torpedoed value even more.



Sad day. Derozan is fine. Poetl is a fringe rotation guy.

48-50 Raptor wins is the sweet spot for maximizing value of the pick.

Kids better grow up quick.

Fringe rotation guy? He’s at worst a solid backup center for years to come based on what’s he’s done in two seasons. And his ceiling is higher than that.

[Hoops Czar]

Or maybe PATFO guesses he’s not going to look the same and it would have torpedoed value even more.




Fringe rotation guy? He’s at worst a solid backup center for years to come based on what’s he’s done in two seasons. And his ceiling is higher than that.

They'd be guessing alright. If you're talking about Peoti, most teams have gone away from the traditional Centers and gone with hyprid and stretch 5's for a reason. He'll be virtually useless against a team like the Warriors. The league continues to zig and the Spurs continue to zag.

[CGD]

I look at it as it being a unique salary dump. Unique in the sense that the player being "dumped" is still valuable and honestly worth his contract. This isn't Mozgov or Deng that's being dumped. Sure, they get a Top 3 player for half a season/or a full season but that doesn't really matter unless he stays beyond that.

I wanted OG too, thought he was going to be included but if I'm being objective it kind of makes no sense for TOR to attach high-level assets just to dump a guy that still has a lot of value.

After having some time to process this is where I’m landing now. Wish we could have gotten OG, but understand why it wasn’t in the cards.

[Vic Petro]

Fringe rotation guy? He’s at worst a solid backup center for years to come based on what’s he’s done in two seasons. And his ceiling is higher than that.

The way the NBA is going, your backup center is at the end of your rotation. But I admit I’m likely underrating both players we got back because I’m bummed over the trade in general. I’ll sell myself by tomorrow.

[L.I.T]

There’s one stat that does make me wonder what Kawhi’s future really is in the NBA:

Regular Season

2011-12: 64 games played, 24 minutes played
2012-13: 58 GP, 31 MP
2013-14: 66/29
2014-15: 64/31
2015-16: 72/33
2016-17: 74/34
2017-18: 9/23

[ducks]

Yeah be interesting how many minutes he plays

[cutewizard]

-Honestly, after I read the total package of today’s big trade, my word for word reaction was:
https://i.imgur.com/YcAQlkx.gif

-After letting the trade digest a bit, I still don’t love it but I’m starting to understand the thinking behind it.

-Firstly, sad to see Danny Green go. He goes down as one of my favorite Spurs of all-time. He came out of nowhere to give the Spurs more than a half decade worth of championship-caliber starting shooting guard play. I’m proud of the way he bounced back from laying an egg in the 2012 playoffs by putting together a couple of the greatest shooting postseason runs this league has ever seen. Along the way, he became an elite defender, a great teammate and a player who kept a positive, wins-focused attitude no matter what. Thanks, Danny. Well done, man.

-I’m not ready to take a deep dive into Kawhi Leonard’s Spurs legacy. (It still hurts :lol) On one hand, the ride was damn fun while it lasted. On the other hand, it’s difficult to forgive Nephew for how things ended. I’m sure the Spurs deserve some blame but to sabotage your trade value by demanding a trade to the archrival Los Angeles Lakers … I mean, I can’t imagine a more villainous ending to what appeared even a year ago to be a perfect marriage between superstar and franchise.

-Let us take a moment to realize that not everyone is built like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Those two are true legends. It takes more than just supreme basketball talent to carry a small market team to championship-relevancy year after year. Gentlemen, Spurs fans are forever grateful.

-Considering the trash offers the Spurs were reportedly getting for Nephew, you can’t be too unhappy with DeMar DeRozan. He’s much better than anyone the Lakers, Clippers or 76ers were offering. He has three years left on his contract and he’s due $27,739,975 per season, with the last season a player-option. While there’s some risk because he could decline physically during that time (he’s turning 29 next month), as it stands he should be worth that amount of money.

-Offensively, DeRozan is elite. Last season, his offensive real plus-minus was +3.42, which ranked 15th in the NBA. His ORPM has been consistently very good the last three seasons. He can create shots for himself in the halfcourt; DeRozan is very capable from all depths inside the three-point line. He has averaged more than 23 points per game for three-straight seasons. Last year, he took a big step forward playmaking-wise. He shattered his career-high by averaging 5.2 assists and was one of the top swingmen in the league in terms of assist-to-turnover ratio. And perhaps best of all, DeRozan is great at getting to the free throw line. He has averaged at least ten attempts per 100 possessions the last five seasons and knocks them down at a nearly 83% clip.

-While a top 20 player in the league on offense, DeRozan isn’t as good as a 100% healthy Nephew on the offensive end. I should make that clear. But speaking of health, that brings me to another positive DeRozan brings to the table: durability. DeRozan has been extremely reliable; his only extended absence in his career was a groin injury back in 2014. He has played 675 of 722 (93.5%) possible regular season games in his career. Nephew, on the other hand, has played in 407 of 558 (72.9%).

-Where DeRozan has been a liability his entire career is on the defensive end. He’s been really bad on that end – and that’s probably putting it kindly. DeRozan’s defensive real plus-minus was a ghastly -1.76 … and that was actually an improvement over his previous campaigns. He has athleticism and length but he’s never been able to be even an adequate defender.

-Fit-wise, I’m less than enthralled. For all of DeRozan’s talents on offense, he’s a poor three-point shooter (28.9% for his career). That’s a rather huge flaw considering he’ll be playing next to the longball-limited Dejounte Murray while occupying the same space LaMarcus Aldridge likes to operate in. Spacing is going to be an issue. A big issue.

(-Speaking of spacing, it now makes a whole lot of sense why the Spurs went with Davis Bertans over Kyle Anderson. The signing of Marco Belinelli also now makes more sense. As constructed, this team needs every perimeter player outside of Murray and DeRozan to be able to shoot if they have any hope of having decent spacing.)

-Pop has his work cut out for him when it comes to making DeRozan decent on D. If Pop can hide him (Murray should help in this matter) and cajole (gently, I’m sure) more effort from him on that end, it’s theoretically possible for DeRozan to become someone who doesn’t kill the Spurs on defense. I wouldn’t bet on it due to DeRozan’s long history of being a sieve, but maybe it could happen.

-In a DeRozan trade, I wanted OG Anunoby to be included. If not OG, then I wanted Pascal Siakam. If not Siakam, I wanted an unprotected first round pick. That said, Jakob Poeltl is a solid young center. Though he was somewhat lost in the Raptors impressive bigman depth, Poeltl is someone you can easily imagine sticking around the Spurs for the next decade.

-Poeltl, a 7-foot-1 center from Austria, has two main strengths: offensive rebounding and shotblocking. He’s top ten in the league in both categories on a per possession basis. Those two numbers alone make him a very interesting prospect. The 22-year-old, even though he’s 250 pounds, is also mobile enough to survive today’s perimeter-oriented NBA. He’s not David Robinson reborn but he can move his feet decently enough. I’ve also been impressed with his basketball IQ in the times I’ve watched him play.

-On the other hand, Poeltl is a shockingly poor defensive rebounder, especially for someone his size. To put it in perspective, his defensive rebounding percentage last season was worse than Gasol, King Joffrey, Murray, Gay, Nephew, Anderson, Aldridge and even Derrick White. How can someone so big and so good on the offensive glass be so pitiful when it comes to rebounding on the defensive end of the court?

-Perhaps even more damning for Poeltl in Pop’s eyes is the fact that he led the league in fouls per minute last season. Pop loathes fouls, even by active bigmen (See: Mahinmi, Ian). Poeltl fouls more than anyone else. That is going to be a rough fit unless the Austrian really improves on that end. Poeltl, even though he can be a sneaky-good passer at times, also turns it over quite a bit for someone who had limited touches with the Raptors. That, too, won’t sit well with Pop.

-Since Poeltl doesn’t have an outside shot, I can’t imagine him starting alongside Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge. That would be a spacing nightmare. But coming off the bench, he could be really useful from Day 1. At 22, he has upside and projects to one day be a possible starter. I wouldn’t be too surprised if he’s starting in three years and giving the Spurs 12 points, ten rebounds and two blocks per game. All in all, Poeltl was definitely a positive asset to get in the Nephew trade.

-I’m hoping even more now for Manu Ginobili to return because Poeltl could be his best pick-and-roll partner since Tiago Splitter was traded. A big guy who sets solid screens and rolls hard will be good for Ginobili as he quarterbacks the bench. And, probably more importantly, Poeltl’s fit on the second unit would be seamless with Ginobili spoon-feeding him. Without Ginobili, he could get lost in the shuffle.

-What will the starting lineup be? I think with the addition of Poeltl, Pau Gasol has to be the starting center, right? That would open up a spot in the rotation for Poeltl and it would help try to mask DeRozan’s defensive weakness. If Pop starts someone like Bertans at power forward and slides Aldridge to center, while that could help offensively spacing-wise, that starting lineup would be really bad defensively – especially since it looks like Mills, Gay or Belinelli would have to round out the starting five.

-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That’s the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing. (Belinelli gets the nod over Gay due to the desperate need for three-point shooting in that lineup and the nod over Mills due to size.) A bench of Mills, Ginobili, Gay, Bertans and Poeltl actually could be pretty strong, honestly.

-I was really hoping for a better haul in the Nephew trade. I can’t try to pretend I’m thrilled with what the Spurs ended up getting. (No OG? No Pascal? Only one highly protected first round pick? Man, that’s tough to swallow.) That said, following the trade, I think the Spurs can win 50-plus games. Are they championship contenders? I’d say it’s fair to call them a dark horse that needs something totally unforeseen (like Murray blossoming into an All-Star in 2019) if they are to reenter that conversation.

-Again, thanks to Danny Green. Poeltl should be a solid piece for a long time. DeRozan will be a breath of fresh air. He’s a good guy by all accounts. In fact, you can make the case he’s been the most loyal and team-first star in the league over the last half decade. No star player has ever shown Toronto any type of loyalty in their history as a franchise. DeRozan never wavered, never looked for greener and less-taxed pastures, and never tried to threaten his way back to Los Angeles. Basketball is again the focus and the playoffs should once again be attainable. I’m not upset about that.

The goods, absolutely illuminating.

Thank you so much good Sir, you relieved my anxiety, hehe

[cutewizard]

There’s one stat that does make me wonder what Kawhi’s future really is in the NBA:

Regular Season

2011-12: 64 games played, 24 minutes played
2012-13: 58 GP, 31 MP
2013-14: 66/29
2014-15: 64/31
2015-16: 72/33
2016-17: 74/34
2017-18: 9/23

Fragile boy....cannot even make a 1 80 season.....

Wilt, Russell and Duncan say HI lol

[SpursBills]

We'll get a reasonable idea of what kobe would have looked like in the spurs system

[hombre]

Lakers fans are posting here again, bummer.

[Down Under]

I hope he stays with Toronto & this along with the PG saga kills any argument that teams have 'no leverage' in trades where players want out going forward. So many teams could've had him, but were scared off that he was a rental. He's a superstar - there's 4 in the NBA & he's the only one who, health permitting, is still getting better. He'll probably be the best player in the league this season or next & yet no one was willing to take that risk for what could possibly be a ridiculous reward.

[azarel]

Bad moves. Kawhi's value is pretty low because no one has seen him play in a year. The smart move would have been to bring him back to at least bring up his trade value. Also winning cures all so you never know. Pop was going to coach him on USA basketball anyway. This is a classic control move by Pop. He doesn't like not being in control of the situation.

which is the smart thing to do no? the way kawhi is acting there's a higher probability of him going AWOL than him turning up for games... its not fair for the rest of the team to have to go through this shit storm for another season just to appease the whiny kid... And winning cures all? last i remember spurs were competing real hard and the season b4 we were in the conference finals against the warriors.... and the team qualified for playoffs without his contribution last season...

Let's face reality... it is clear that kawhi & uncle has more issues with Spurs, the city itself and FO that no amount of money or victories will make him want to stay with the team.

[spurs10]

If RC and Pop let the deal go down they wanted him gone. They could have kept him and made him play and hope that things would come around. They definitely gave up on that thought. Glad they got an All-Star to play with LMA. Surround them with some 3 pt shooters and maybe we'll score some points. We will need to!

[polandprzem]

Funny thing is Pop says kawhi did his thing and was good teammate etc. So basically he says everything was fine but Leonard just wanted to be traded and they did trade him and all sides benefits from it.

Damn how come this trade is equal from basketball standpoint?

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Poor Green, dragged down and ultimately traded due to this bullshit Kawhi saga. He always bled the black and silver. Front office was looking for an excuse to can him since he has been on a steady decline for a few years now, but still, crazy to think that Manu would still be a Spur and Green, Kawhi, Parker, and Duncan are not. He is the lone ranger.

Fuck Kawhi. I hope that autistic retard gets fucking quad cancer and needs an amputation.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

:lol Not sure if you're serious or not and this has nothing to do with anything Kawhi related....but Toronto is a significantly better city than Oklahoma City...

Have you even been outside the US since entering it? :lol

:tu

[Killakobe81]

If RC and Pop let the deal go down they wanted him gone. They could have kept him and made him play and hope that things would come around. They definitely gave up on that thought. Glad they got an All-Star to play with LMA. Surround them with some 3 pt shooters and maybe we'll score some points. We will need to!

This. After sitting on it for 24hrs still think it's not a good or fair trade but Kawhi made that impossible. Pop though drained at the pressor seemed defiant and Spur fan is right they did win 47 last year.
Biggest concern is defense on the wing. Spurs will play good team defense but no matter how you spin it Spurs took a big step back on that end talent wise even if Green had slipped some and Kawhi was injured.
But I think Pop coaches his ass off and you guys will be strong in regular season. I just think come playoffs a perimeter d of Belli, DD etc won't be enough.

[NameLess Scrub]

Reckon you selling the spurs team short here. There will be no disruptions this coming season so i like our chances of playing better

They have LeBron and we have DeRozan. We'll be lucky if we can play him on 4th quarters :lol

[baseline bum]

They traded WingStop which you need to beat the Warriors or Rockets for Demar Depression. How does this help better matchup with Steph, Klay, and Durant?

Why would anyone give a shit about the matchup with Golden State? What, did you think the Spurs were going to win the Leonard trade and all of a sudden become title contenders?

[baseline bum]

Yeah, there's something more here. A scenario that the injury is worse than let on, or career limiting in some way does not seem far-fetched. Keep in mind that Philly had really good intel on his health and they were offering nothing.

It would have been illegal as hell for their doctor to share Leonard's medical information with the Sixers, so I'm not sure he would have shared that info.

[Killakobe81]

It would have been illegal as hell for their doctor to share Leonard's medical information with the Sixers, so I'm not sure he would have shared that info.

Though the return was poor
SPURS decided some return even a overpaid DD was better than the let him sit and rot and leave for NADA approach...

[baseline bum]

Though the return was poor
SPURS decided some return even a overpaid DD was better than the let him sit and rot and leave for NADA approach...

What sucks is if Leonard stayed they would have probably gotten DeRozan for Gasol + Green. When it leaked that Pop was trying to sell Leonard on staying at that meeting in San Diego a few weeks ago with promises of another allstar they had a trade lined up for we all assumed it was Kemba, but it was probably DeMar.