Spurs Need to Go All-In

[DPG21920]

I am an old guy (55). Johnny Moore was one of my favorite players in the early 80s and a hugely underrated PG. Also loved Larry Kenon, FWIW.

LOL at your logic though. Bron in a weaker East with a better team than he has in LA didn’t win 55+. Are you crazy man?

[DPG21920]

Don't you think that Covington, Saric and Miami's 2021 was a better option than DeRozan and a late first rounder?

I would have been fine with that knowing what we know now, but 1) all reports said Saric was not actually offered & 2) DeRoan > Saric + Covington as a player(s) for sure. The pick changes the variables but from a player perspective DeRozan is way better than those two. Way better.

[Payote75]

Anyone think we would have a chance at Otto Porter? And would anyone have interest???

[DPG21920]

would also be funny if charlotte ends up with the point guard rotation of murray/mills/parker :lol

:lmao

[offset formation]

I have been telling you since 2009 when Tim Duncan retires, the so-called "GOAT" PATFO was going to be exposed something awful. You know what they say about leading camels to water..... :lol

On a side not, Have you bought your Raptors season tickets yet?

Lol. You think you're proving your point? This team nearly kept alive a 50 game win streak without presumably (and arguably) their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th or 6th players for minor to very significant absences. Especially when the 1 and 3 in that scenario each missed 50%+ of the season...

Name me another coach that spitballs together a playoff appearance let alone nearly 50 wins...I'll see myself out now.

[DPG21920]

Anyone think we would have a chance at Otto Porter? And would anyone have interest???

For sure. It’s a gamble but absolutely

[SAGirl]

I really hope he does but I highly, highly doubt that Murray makes the necessary leap to get the Spurs in a good spot next season.

If it was true that Pop told Kawhi theres a trade out there to add another all-star, they should definitely explore it at this point tbh


I actually like Murray's upsside and think he will be big part of you winning 50 games.
Yup, after trading Danny and the other wing losses, he the team's best perimeter defender. He's so young he will improve. He needs to make a leap offensively but he is hungry. I think Pop is sold on him enough to find out what he has in his 3rd season. Spurs do have other young players.

Personally I get DPG point but kinda expect them to stop. Perhaps be opportunistic if a wing is dangled during the season. And they really nee help there.

I do expect Pop to try to coerce the most out of Cunningham, Davis and Bryn for example b4 he looks around.

More likely than not perhaps bring wings to compete with BP3, like Blossomgame or somebody new. They once uncovered Danny like that and may try again.

[TD 21]

Good call on Winslow. A true wing defender is something they need to not be such a paper tiger. It's fine that they just got better offensively. But they got much worse on the other end and that matters too especially in the west with so many offensive wings. I was wondering if Walker could help them bc besides being athletic he has strength and wingspan. I don't count on him bc if the rook factor, but maybe Spurs will go after a wing like Winslow.

Walker is just too small/slight to have him defend James, Durant, Butler, George, Leonard, Antetokounmpo, etc.

There's a shortage of big SF/combo forwards who are at least competent at 3 and D (even Winslow is only 6'6'', with a 6'10'' wingspan). Part of it is because a lot of them now veer towards being PF's. Anunoby was one of the few who fit the mold of the former, which is why it was a massive blow to not get him.

If they can't address it in the next year, Leonard leaves (Raptors would pivot into a re-build by default) and Green doesn't fall further, I wouldn't rule out his being brought back.

[mo7888]

I am an old guy (55). Johnny Moore was one of my favorite players in the early 80s and a hugely underrated PG. Also loved Larry Kenon, FWIW.


Anyone think we would have a chance at Otto Porter? And would anyone have interest???

I think we could legitimately have a shot at porter or Wiggins and an outside shot at butler or beal.

[johnnymoore]

LOL at your logic though. Bron in a weaker East with a better team than he has in LA didn’t win 55+. Are you crazy man?

We must agree to disagree, then.

1 - I do not think the 2017-18 CAVS minus LBJ are better than the 2018-19 Lakers w/o LBJ.

2 - The Lakers core guys - Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, Hart - should naturally progress into better players. Adding LeBron to the mix should improve upon the natural progression. As sports fans, we automatically downgrade & denigrate our rivals' players, so the ST mantra is that Ball is a bust, Kuzma is overrated and already at his ceiling, Ingram is a twig and is 3-4 years away, etc. Around the league, however, (and according to the metrics), those guys are rising stocks (even Ball with his fugly jumper).

3 - We were projecting going from 35 wins to 40-44 WITHOUT adding LeBron. With him should add a minimum of 10 more than that.

4 - I'm still expecting another major addition before training camp starts.

[Mugen]

I'm fine if you want to keep Dejounte but they need a 3/wing defender badly tbh. Hopefully Pau and the two first rounders can be moved to fill that void.

Losing Danny (on a good contract) was so dumb since he fills a need this team desperately needs right now. I haven't reviewed the financials but man there had to be another way to get it done without losing him. Incredibly dumb by RC.

[Hoops Czar]

Lol. You think you're proving your point? This team nearly kept alive a 50 game win streak without presumably (and arguably) their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th or 6th players for minor to very significant absences. Especially when the 1 and 3 in that scenario each missed 50%+ of the season...

Name me another coach that spitballs together a playoff appearance let alone nearly 50 wins...I'll see myself out now.

Becky?? A washing machine?

I would argue that a better coach probably adds 10 more wins to the Spurs total. His coaching and rotations were abysmal. They were a Sacramento implosion away from missing the postseason. Are you calling a career loser coming off a career threatening injury the third best player on the Spurs team? I don't know if Gay should be happy or sad that the two times he's made the playoffs, it had nothing to do with him.

[Mugen]

Man, those Pau and Patty deals are so fucking bad. They were bad before and look even worse now in hindsight.

I'd attach anything I can to get those off the books and pray to god that a team gives you a useful player back in return.

[DAF86]

I wonder if there's any way of getting Jimmy Butler.

[DAF86]

I'm fine if you want to keep Dejounte but they need a 3/wing defender badly tbh. Hopefully Pau and the two first rounders can be moved to fill that void.

Losing Danny (on a good contract) was so dumb since he fills a need this team desperately needs right now. I haven't reviewed the financials but man there had to be another way to get it done without losing him. Incredibly dumb by RC.

Danny on his own could have probably got us more than what he got us attached to Kawhi. :lol

[mo7888]

David Griffin on NBA TV just said that the Spurs have a plan going forward and it could include flipping DD this season. Fwiw

[Hoops Czar]

David Griffin on NBA TV just said that the Spurs have a plan going forward and it could include flipping DD this season. Fwiw

How the hell would the former Cavs Gm know anything about the Spurs future plans?

[MannyIsGod]

Yup, after trading Danny and the other wing losses, he the team's best perimeter defender. He's so young he will improve. He needs to make a leap offensively but he is hungry. I think Pop is sold on him enough to find out what he has in his 3rd season. Spurs do have other young players.

Personally I get DPG point but kinda expect them to stop. Perhaps be opportunistic if a wing is dangled during the season. And they really nee help there.

I do expect Pop to try to coerce the most out of Cunningham, Davis and Bryn for example b4 he looks around.

More likely than not perhaps bring wings to compete with BP3, like Blossomgame or somebody new. They once uncovered Danny like that and may try again.

I actually agree with you nearly 100% on this post. Especially the last two points.

[DPG21920]

David Griffin on NBA TV just said that the Spurs have a plan going forward and it could include flipping DD this season. Fwiw

I find that truly hard to believe. I think Griffin doesn’t love the deal, doesn’t get why SA didn’t wait longer if this was the best as it can’t get worse if Kawhi shows he’s healthy and is just assuming that SA did this now because they have a bigger plan.

I think SA knew this was it, were ready and that nothing Kawhi said or did would help and they didn’t want to risk getting nothing.

[texbound]

I wonder if there's any way of getting Jimmy Butler.

Wouldn't that be sweet. Pau, Derrick White and a combination of picks (1st and 2nd rounder). Do it RC. It's totally not feasible or worth it for the T-Wolves to do it, but F them.

[DPG21920]

DeRozan being flipped for Butler would make sense :lol

[Mugen]

DeRozan being flipped for Butler would make sense :lol

:wow :lol sign me up tbh

[DAF86]

Wouldn't that be sweet. Pau, Derrick White and a combination of picks (1st and 2nd rounder). Do it RC. It's totally not feasible or worth it for the T-Wolves to do it, but F them.

I wouldn't trade White.

[DAF86]

DeRozan being flipped for Butler would make sense :lol

Maybe. Would do it in a heartbeat.

[Chucho]

Spurs wanted to keep winning but they aint getting nowhere in the POs with Lamarsha and DeChokezan

Wake up


Nobody is getting past the Warriors, period, so moot point. The only people fans want to beat are The Raps and Lakers now.

[marinoman]

I would not be against going for Irving but what we offer?
Murray, Mills and late 1st rounders? Im down but I don’t see it

[TD 21]

What would constitute "going all in" that they could realistically do though? In addition to Winslow, best possible SF options I can come up with off the top . . .

Oubre-Wizards could be a similar situation to Heat-Winslow. The Wizards are in a tough financial situation and might not want or be able to to meet what he's likely to command as an RFA. Maybe they get out ahead of it and trade him. He's not Spurs material and is too slight to guard the big wing/combo forward types, though.

If Ginobili retires, maybe offer his contract, along with Gasol and Paul for Harkless and Leonard. Trail Blazers are also in a tough financial situation and would reap significant savings for the following season.

Then there's the oft discussed Batum albatross. Mills and Gasol should get it done. Hornets probably even throw in a decent-minor asset.

[tholdren]

OP lost his mind like ma nig DAF

That dude got ptsd

[sasaint]

Danny on his own could have probably got us more than what he got us attached to Kawhi. :lol

That is EXACTLY what I thought. Smh!

[sasaint]

Walker is just too small/slight to have him defend James, Durant, Butler, George, Leonard, Antetokounmpo, etc.

There's a shortage of big SF/combo forwards who are at least competent at 3 and D (even Winslow is only 6'6'', with a 6'10'' wingspan). Part of it is because a lot of them now veer towards being PF's. Anunoby was one of the few who fit the mold of the former, which is why it was a massive blow to not get him.

If they can't address it in the next year, Leonard leaves (Raptors would pivot into a re-build by default) and Green doesn't fall further, I wouldn't rule out his being brought back.


I agree with everything you said, but that doesn't help us this year. We got Poodle to shore up the bigs.but now we have nada for SF.

[DAF86]

What would constitute "going all in" that they could realistically do though? In addition to Winslow, best possible SF options I can come up with off the top . . .

Oubre-Wizards could be a similar situation to Heat-Winslow. The Wizards are in a tough financial situation and might not want or be able to to meet what he's likely to command as an RFA. Maybe they get out ahead of it and trade him. He's not Spurs material and is too slight to guard the big wing/combo forward types, though.

If Ginobili retires, maybe offer his contract, along with Gasol and Paul for Harkless and Leonard. Trail Blazers are also in a tough financial situation and would reap significant savings for the following season.

Then there's the oft discussed Batum albatross. Mills and Gasol should get it done. Hornets probably even throw in a decent-minor asset.

Butler.

Would a desperate Wolves team go for a Butler for DeRozan trade? They would be securing an all-star for the next three seasons for a guy that would leave for nothing in the offseason. I mean, if PATFO fell for it, maybe Thibs does too.

[sasaint]

I'm fine if you want to keep Dejounte but they need a 3/wing defender badly tbh. Hopefully Pau and the two first rounders can be moved to fill that void.

Losing Danny (on a good contract) was so dumb since he fills a need this team desperately needs right now. I haven't reviewed the financials but man there had to be another way to get it done without losing him. Incredibly dumb by RC.

Agreed. Throwing Danny into that deal turned a position of former strength into a glaring hole on this roster. It HAS to mean PATFO has another move in mind - doesn't it? Please be so!

[Spur|n|Austin]

I wonder if there's any way of getting Jimmy Butler.

That would be amazing - hopefully FO is not done yet and DeRozan coming over sparks more interest from remaining FA, namely Forwards.

[mo7888]

I find that truly hard to believe. I think Griffin doesn’t love the deal, doesn’t get why SA didn’t wait longer if this was the best as it can’t get worse if Kawhi shows he’s healthy and is just assuming that SA did this now because they have a bigger plan.

I think SA knew this was it, were ready and that nothing Kawhi said or did would help and they didn’t want to risk getting nothing.

I agree but, in retrospect, I think we could have moved him to the clips for Harris + 12+13 and still made a trade to Toronto for DD and ended up with the same players plus a pick or two from LA. I guess I'm still feeling heartburn over this deal and will unless we make a follow up move to add someone else.

[Fusternino]

Colin Cowherd and Nick Wright were talking about Toronto immediately flipping Kawhi and creating a bidding war between the LA teams.

We got completely fleeced in this deal. DG himself could've gotten us Poeltl and the pick. LOL.

[Payote75]

For sure. It’s a gamble but absolutely

Realistically what do you think would work that would help Washington. I think they're thinking their right there too compete as well in the lebronless east so I'm not sure salary dumps would work. Murray would definately have to be involved and I actually think one of Paul or mills would be of use to them on that team. You could expand the trade but my main focus would be porter. I like him a lot I believe he just fits the Spurs well. Would love to get some more opinions on this from others too.

[DPG21920]

Realistically what do you think would work that would help Washington. I think they're thinking their right there too compete as well in the lebronless east so I'm not sure salary dumps would work. Murray would definately have to be involved and I actually think one of Paul or mills would be of use to them on that team. You could expand the trade but my main focus would be porter. I like him a lot I believe he just fits the Spurs well. Would love to get some more opinions on this from others too.

Honestly I have no idea what it would take. It’s hard to tell; but it would probably be mid-season and Wash looking to blow it up. That is the only way I see it.

[GrapplingYautja]

You whiners like using that word 'fleeced' not knowing what it even means.

We got an all-star for the next 3 years as opposed to 1. Got rid of a CANCER and player whose management did NOT want to be in San Antonio. They went rogue trying to force their way into the LA market with bullish tactics and didn't get their way.

The Spurs are always solid defensively. That hasn't been a problem here because we have a system! How have Aldridge and Gay somehow become decent defenders when they were criticized for that part of their game? You don't think we're going to put DeRozan in a similar situation to be successful?

[sasaint]

Butler.

Would a desperate Wolves team go for a Butler for DeRozan trade? They would be securing an all-star for the next three seasons for a guy that would leave for nothing in the offseason. I mean, if PATFO fell for it, maybe Thibs does too.

I don't think PATFO play the game that way. Besides, if that was under consideration, why wouldn't they just have constructed a 3 team trade? Thi is just a ST pipe dream.

[Payote75]

I get impatient lol
but trade machine allows

batum
walker

for

gasol
mills
white
paul

i think jordan would be ecstatic to escape batums contract and Walker 1 year left but I think that creates a pretty solid shooting team 1-5 can score and having gay Manu and belli off the bench we would just be lacking a big body but gasol wasn't that anyhow. Not to mention it frees a ton of money up for Charlotte eventually and for the Spurs solid.....opinions???

[DMC]

That would be amazing - hopefully FO is not done yet and DeRozan coming over sparks more interest from remaining FA, namely Forwards.

Aldridge, DeRozan and Butler with Murry as PG and Pau at center form a legit top 4 team I'd think.

[Spurtacular]

Go all-in on what? A conference semifinals loss to Lebron in seven? A conference finals loss to GS in six? :lol

Last I checked, superstar-less teams don't win rings in the NBA.

[offset formation]

You whiners like using that word 'fleeced' not knowing what it even means.

We got an all-star for the next 3 years as opposed to 1. Got rid of a CANCER and player whose management did NOT want to be in San Antonio. They went rogue trying to force their way into the LA market with bullish tactics and didn't get their way.

The Spurs are always solid defensively. That hasn't been a problem here because we have a system! How have Aldridge and Gay somehow become decent defenders when they were criticized for that part of their game? You don't think we're going to put DeRozian in a similar situation to be successful?

This.

And I'd say Aldridge has been far better than decent on defense. In fact, he's basically became our defensive anchor. Pop knows it. And so did the team.

[DPG21920]

I know it would be adding another non-shooter, but I wonder if Stanley Johnson is available. SA has liked him, he is a defensive wing and probably can be had I would imagine with DET getting Khyri Thomas.

Or maybe ORL would do Pau + Mills for Fournier + Ross type deal?

[Baam]

They need an elite shooter at the 3, someone like Otto Porter. But they didn't get assets to make a second trade...

[Ditty]

Man Jimmy Butler would be nice. I wonder how Teague and Murray would work together on the floor. I don't want to touch Walker or White.

Murray, Gasol (Thibodeau connection) and Two Firsts (one from Toronto) for Butler. Roster looks better.

Aldridge/Poltl/Metu
Bertans/Gay/Cunningham
Butler/Belinelli/Blossomgame
Derozan/Manu/Walker
White/Mills/Forbes

[Hoops Czar]

DeRozan being flipped for Butler would make sense :lol
Silly DPG, if the Spurs were considering that, they could have done a three-way trade.

[Hoops Czar]

I know it would be adding another non-shooter, but I wonder if Stanley Johnson is available. SA has liked him, he is a defensive wing and probably can be had I would imagine with DET getting Khyri Thomas.

Or maybe ORL would do Pau + Mills for Fournier + Ross type deal?

How about their done and looking for G-league fillers to fill out the roster.

[Chinook]

Johnson or Winslow would make a ton of sense. I honestly see DeRozan as the starting SF right now, to the point that any MAJOR acquisition should be for a smaller player. But getting a three who's young and cheap enough to where he can come off the bench if necessary sounds great. I would not consider this representative of going "all-in" however.

[szkorhetz]

I could see the Batum trade happening, or getting someone from Miami, but the Butler dream is a huge pipe-dream.
I always enjoyed watching Harkless, and I still don't know if the Clippers would say no to a Mills+1st to Harris.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You can’t trade consecutive first round picks.

And to those saying the Toronto pick is “worthless”, it’ll likely fall in the same range where the Spurs have gotten the Andersons, Murrays, CoJos, etc. of the world recently. It’s going to be fine.

Just hope it doesn’t turn into two second rounders. That would totally suck. I’m surprised the Spurs didn’t also get a pick swap sometime in the future. But Masai wanted to maintain flexibility for a full rebuild.

Not sure why people scoff at the two 2nd round picks - if Toronto keep this year's first it'd mean they've crashed and are likely to begin a rebuild. Thus Spurs would get their 2020 and 2021 second round picks which would project to be in the 30s.

Don't forget the 2021 draft will be loaded due to the rule changes so an early 2nd round pick then will be more useful than a late 2019 first round pick. Almost makes you hope the snake poisons them too and they flop this season :lol

[Chinook]

Not sure why people scoff at the two 2nd round picks - if Toronto keep this year's first it'd mean they've crashed and are likely to begin a rebuild. Thus Spurs would get their 2020 and 2021 second round picks which would project to be in the 30s.

Don't forget the 2021 draft will be loaded due to the rule changes so an early 2nd round pick then will be more useful than a late 2019 first round pick. Almost makes you hope the snake poisons them too and they flop this season :lol

Change won't happen until 2022. Probably is what took Philly out of the running.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Change won't happen until 2022. Probably is what took Philly out of the running.

Oh well.

[Chinook]

Oh well.

I still don't quite know why the Spurs gave into the trade today/yesterday. I do remember a rumor about the deal came out a few days ago, and it had SA sending the pick. Maybe that was accurate reporting of the Raps' offer, and SA eventually go them to include what they did. But the more I look at this, the more it seems like Toronto would have let SA get DeRozan for free. Maybe the pick swing would have been different. They just needed something better, whether that was more salary relief, an additional/better prospect not just not having to use Green. I think SA will be a LOT better than folks are expecting, but I don't like their haul here.

Maybe Green was part of the "locker-room divide" I've been seeing brought up today. He sided with Leonard a lot, and other folks who may have been part of that like Simmons, Dedmon and Anderson are also gone.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I still don't quite know why the Spurs gave into the trade today/yesterday. I do remember a rumor about the deal came out a few days ago, and it had SA sending the pick. Maybe that was accurate reporting of the Raps' offer, and SA eventually go them to include what they did. But the more I look at this, the more it seems like Toronto would have let SA get DeRozan for free. Maybe the pick swing would have been different. They just needed something better, whether that was more salary relief, an additional/better prospect not just not having to use Green. I think SA will be a LOT better than folks are expecting, but I don't like their haul here.

Maybe Green was part of the "locker-room divide" I've been seeing brought up today. He sided with Leonard a lot, and other folks who may have been part of that like Simmons, Dedmon and Anderson are also gone.

I agree the Spurs will be good and as much as most people, including myself, don't like DeRozan's game there's a reason he's on all NBA teams and in this sense he's very underrated.

Not sure about the fit but can't argue against getting a top 15 player for someone who wouldn't even sit on the bench. They'll have a ton of tradeable pieces and it'll be an exciting season when it comes to speculation and trade rumours. I don't see them keeping both picks, they definitely have at least one more move to make, even if it's as late as the trade deadline. If they could get Butler and have him sign an extension it'd be a very solid team, although far from beating the Warriors.

[venitian navigator]

...if its true, Like Kori said, tht the medical has been waiwed from the negotiations, that puts a total different light on the trade. And the 5 millions we had to give them confirms it.
Looks like they decided to mantain their integrity at all costs...and proceeding on eliminating all players (last year Simmons and Deadmon, this year Kiwhi...better say his uncle) trying to sabotage the winning mentality (alas team first mentality) that's been builded in years and that is so necessary in a small market team to make it successful.
As for Kyle I don't buy he was a problem but simply the price was too high. As for Green, he was already showing his will to leave, and opted in just because of dry market considerations.
For as much I don't love DDR game one thing has to be said: his carachter is the one of a good human being...and his game has been builded with patience, till reaching the actual success. Apart for the obvious decline by age, his three contract years are still prime years. If he buys in the role Pop is preparing for him, ha has all the tools to shine in our system and gain, in any case, a lot of marketability.
As for Poeltl, he looks like a good soldier...and any time I've seen him play he played well. I think that with playing time he can learn a lot and become something really valuable.

I still think the trade is abysmal and that OG should have been included to make it decent. But the point (explained from eliminating the medical exams from th deal and the 5 millions) is that the absolute priority was to push Kiwhi out from any more contact with any spurs players or coaches as soon as possible...

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

spurs went all in, on kl

[L.I.T]

Ultimately, Spurs are improved from just a month ago - with a more clearcut agenda in terms of culture and focus on winning (I hope). Locker room should be more stable, in all regards. Just by that, the product on the floor should be improved.

I think the front office was also concerned about the type of locker room culture guys like Murray/White/Walker were going to develop in with the insidiousness of Kawhi's malcontentedness and unprofessionalism - even more so if the rumours of J.Simmons/Dedmon and Green forming a clique with him are true. They've cleared that out and brought in a solid locker room presence in Derozan, while adding/retaining stable vets like Belinelli/Gay/Cunningham/Gasol/Mills. Wildcard is LMA, but even his moodiness is more of a quirk than a cancer like Kawhi's.

Long term direction is still under question, but in 2020 or 2021 cap space (depending on what they do) is there. They can even carve out close to $30M next summer with a few easy moves if they're confident in a Murray/Derozan/LMA core.

[outmap]

Butler.

Would a desperate Wolves team go for a Butler for DeRozan trade? They would be securing an all-star for the next three seasons for a guy that would leave for nothing in the offseason. I mean, if PATFO fell for it, maybe Thibs does too.

If we can trade for Butler without giving-up LMA, DJ and DDR then we can contend.

[szkorhetz]

If we can trade for Butler without giving-up LMA, DJ and DDR then we can contend.
But we can't. I don't know who started these Butler rumors, but don't have any chance to get him and that spacing would be likely the worst in the whole NBA.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

But we can't. I don't know who started these Butler rumors, but don't have any chance to get him and that spacing would be likely the worst in the whole NBA.

He wants out of there, albeit in a professional way unlike a certain snake. By the trade deadline the Spurs's two picks and/or rookie contract guys like White/Walker/Poeltl might be the best offer they get for him depending on how their season goes. They're in cap hell already.

Not likely, of course, but possible.

[FireMicoHalili]

Disparages the Spurs cap situation for a lot of years, but not like San Antonio is a famed free agent destination anyway. If the Spurs had cap space next year I wonder who they would’ve been able to lure. Usually players come here especially during buyout season because of the chance to win a championship but the Spurs have lost that charm.

[SAGirl]

Johnson or Winslow would make a ton of sense. I honestly see DeRozan as the starting SF right now, to the point that any MAJOR acquisition should be for a smaller player. But getting a three who's young and cheap enough to where he can come off the bench if necessary sounds great. I would not consider this representative of going "all-in" however.
DeRozan is a defensive liability even when assigned to The SG spot all his career. I don’t see him doing well “guarding” bigger players and I wonder if that will also affect his offensive game.

How exactly do you see your rotation right now?

Everyone projects Davis to start but I do wonder if it won’t be someone else as well. Somehow I think Pop is still going to want to play his 2 bigs and he wasn’t all that pleased with Davis starting last season, whereas Dijon was allowed to keep his spot, with the Spurs living through his mistakes bc they understood his potential.

Anyways this is a hypothetical. I do consider them to be very close to the luxury tax and limited in what they can do.

I am not convinced they consider Pau or Mills albatrosses and with all the personnel changes expect them to kind of stay put with this group. Pops statement was indicative of this: “we are going to do it again but with better (offensive) talent.”

Its possible they expect Poltl to cover at the rim for a lot of bad perimeter D. I know very little about Jakob but his stats are good and intriguing. I wonder if he might even be starting (if it weren’t for the lack of shooting pushing most likely Gasol to start)

[SpursDynasty85]

I still don't quite know why the Spurs gave into the trade today/yesterday. I do remember a rumor about the deal came out a few days ago, and it had SA sending the pick. Maybe that was accurate reporting of the Raps' offer, and SA eventually go them to include what they did. But the more I look at this, the more it seems like Toronto would have let SA get DeRozan for free. Maybe the pick swing would have been different. They just needed something better, whether that was more salary relief, an additional/better prospect not just not having to use Green. I think SA will be a LOT better than folks are expecting, but I don't like their haul here.

Maybe Green was part of the "locker-room divide" I've been seeing brought up today. He sided with Leonard a lot, and other folks who may have been part of that like Simmons, Dedmon and Anderson are also gone.

Spurs had zero leverage. Windhorst already reporting only the Raptors are bidding and I'm sure they gave the Spurs a timetable. The league was pretty much on Kawhi watch and the Raptors were the only team left standing. Spurs were lucky Raptors wanted a possible rebuild.

[ndbutch]

The Dubs got Cousins. Game over bro.


The history of basketball players trying to come back from his type of injury doesn't support that. People act like he's doing what KD did. It's not remotely the same. Now the Warriors roster apart from him......They won titles with Bogut, McGhee and the stiff from last year.

[SAGirl]

...if its true, Like Kori said, tht the medical has been waiwed from the negotiations, that puts a total different light on the trade. And the 5 millions we had to give them confirms it.
Looks like they decided to mantain their integrity at all costs...and proceeding on eliminating all players (last year Simmons and Deadmon, this year Kiwhi...better say his uncle) trying to sabotage the winning mentality (alas team first mentality) that's been builded in years and that is so necessary in a small market team to make it successful.
As for Kyle I don't buy he was a problem but simply the price was too high. As for Green, he was already showing his will to leave, and opted in just because of dry market considerations.
For as much I don't love DDR game one thing has to be said: his carachter is the one of a good human being...and his game has been builded with patience, till reaching the actual success. Apart for the obvious decline by age, his three contract years are still prime years. If he buys in the role Pop is preparing for him, ha has all the tools to shine in our system and gain, in any case, a lot of marketability.
As for Poeltl, he looks like a good soldier...and any time I've seen him play he played well. I think that with playing time he can learn a lot and become something really valuable.

I still think the trade is abysmal and that OG should have been included to make it decent. But the point (explained from eliminating the medical exams from th deal and the 5 millions) is that the absolute priority was to push Kiwhi out from any more contact with any spurs players or coaches as soon as possible...
All good points. I kinda agree.

[SAGirl]

Spurs had zero leverage. Windhorst already reporting only the Raptors are bidding and I'm sure they gave the Spurs a timetable. The league was pretty much on Kawhi watch and the Raptors were the only team left standing. Spurs were lucky Raptors wanted a possible rebuild.
QFE....

[ernest787]

Simmons had a podcast yesterday talking about the trade. They all believe the Spurs won this by getting DD. But more importantly, it seems they have at least some inside info to the trade talks surrounding Kawhi.

According to the pod, the celts were not interested in anything more than a sign and trade involving Marcus Smarts, Morris and possibly one of their first round picks. They also echoed what everyone else has reported that Philly and LA were not offering any of their young talent.

Anyway, it just solidifies the fact that no one was really offering anything for Kawhi. The spurs could have tried to ride this out and make him play, but it seems clear that they felt it wasn’t worth possibly fracturing the team more to see if you can get more value in 6 months.

The more I think about it, I’m happy with the trade. I would have loved getting OG in the trade, but DD should help the Spurs stay competitive and they will still have some cap flexibility in the coming years to build around DD and LMA. If Murray takes a leap and Walker turns into something, this could be a fun team.

[picnroll]

Change won't happen until 2022. Probably is what took Philly out of the running.

I haven’t seen anywhere that they have set a date, only that the change is in discussion, is considered desirable and would require an amendment to the current CBA agreement that expires in 2024 which is under serious consideration. Did you see somewhere where they’ve established 2022 as the year for implementation?

[ernest787]

I haven’t seen anywhere that they have set a date, only that the change is in discussion, is considered desirable and would require an amendment to the current CBA agreement that expires in 2024 which is under serious consideration. Did you see somewhere where they’ve established 2022 as the year for implementation?

All rumors are pointing to 2022 or 2023 as the likely date and not 2021. Simmons and KOC talked about this on their pod too. Saying that Miami pick isn’t as attractive now knowing that its likely not happinging until at least 2022

[cjw]

Not sure why people scoff at the two 2nd round picks - if Toronto keep this year's first it'd mean they've crashed and are likely to begin a rebuild. Thus Spurs would get their 2020 and 2021 second round picks which would project to be in the 30s.

Don't forget the 2021 draft will be loaded due to the rule changes so an early 2nd round pick then will be more useful than a late 2019 first round pick. Almost makes you hope the snake poisons them too and they flop this season :lol

Per RealGM (couldn’t find it anywhere else), the second rounders would be in 2019 and 2020. That means the 2019 pick would be inside the top 50, but likely in the 40s as the Raptors wouldn’t crap out that badly. And while the 2020 pick could be in the 30s, the Spurs wouldn’t be getting that pick in the deeper 2021 draft.

I’d rather get a pick in the early 20s. If late 20s, then I’m okay punting to two second rounders.


2019 first round draft pick to San Antonio
Toronto's 2019 1st round pick to San Antonio protected for selections 1-20; if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Toronto will instead convey its 2019 2nd round pick and 2020 2nd round pick to San Antonio [San Antonio-Toronto, 7/18/2018]

[FireMicoHalili]

Per RealGM (couldn’t find it anywhere else), the second rounders would be in 2019 and 2020. That means the 2019 pick would be inside the top 50, but likely in the 40s as the Raptors wouldn’t crap out that badly. And while the 2020 pick could be in the 30s, the Spurs wouldn’t be getting that pick in the deeper 2021 draft.

I’d rather get a pick in the early 20s. If late 20s, then I’m okay punting to two second rounders.
People forget this pick is also a tradeable asset/sweetener to any possible deal, especially given their win now mindset.

[acoelho1]

Outside of the Warriors, I can see the Spurs going anywhere from 2 to 5 in west. I think Murray's improvement and White's insertion will be a big factor in our success this year. In addition, Rudy should be stronger and I expect DeRozan to further develop in our system.

[dbestpro]

The thing is the Spurs traded what was a 15th round draft pick, and a journeyman free agent. They have the ability to take players of lesser value and give them greater value. They've been doing this going back to Bruce Bowen and Avery Johnson. There is no reason to think they will not be able to do the same with someone or a few players on the current roster. Maybe Forbes comes with acid in his veins, or Bertans smooths out his game. White looks like he could really contribute. Someone, will emerge.

[picnroll]

People forget this pick is also a tradeable asset/sweetener to any possible deal, especially given their win now mindset.

I thought the draft change was likely in 2021. Didn’t realize a second round pick might occur in 2019. If true crap.

[DPG21920]

Again, going all-in is about mindset, not about a particular player. It just means you make moves with the next 2 years in mind and not beyond.

Think of it this way: SA was pitching Kawhi that they could bring in more win-now help. They only swapped Kawhi for another win-now type player in DeRozan so wouldn’t the pitch to DeRozan/LMA be the same for Kawhi/LMA? It should be.

[SAGirl]

Simmons had a podcast yesterday talking about the trade. They all believe the Spurs won this by getting DD. But more importantly, it seems they have at least some inside info to the trade talks surrounding Kawhi.

According to the pod, the celts were not interested in anything more than a sign and trade involving Marcus Smarts, Morris and possibly one of their first round picks. They also echoed what everyone else has reported that Philly and LA were not offering any of their young talent.

Anyway, it just solidifies the fact that no one was really offering anything for Kawhi. The spurs could have tried to ride this out and make him play, but it seems clear that they felt it wasn’t worth possibly fracturing the team more to see if you can get more value in 6 months.

The more I think about it, I’m happy with the trade. I would have loved getting OG in the trade, but DD should help the Spurs stay competitive and they will still have some cap flexibility in the coming years to build around DD and LMA.If Murray takes a leap and Walker turns into something, this could be a fun team.


That offer from the Celtics is horrible. and the rumors the Celtics and Philly were stingy were around so it's nothing new.

I can't hate on the trade. I didn't want Kawhi to get dealt to begin with but he clearly didn't want to play for the Spurs anymore. There wasn't any coming out ahead when you lose a top player unless his health issues are real and his best basketball is already behind him, something I don't know, or have a way of guessing.

I am actually very hopeful in DJ/White/Walker though it takes time for them to reach their best basketball.

Not sure on the mix with Derozan but at least it will be an interesting team, more offensively skilled than last season and with some interesting unknowns. It won't be as hopeless (until the playoffs and Demar chokes I guess)... Perhaps there are surprised from any of the new players of even Poltl, due to player development.

[sasaint]

But we can't. I don't know who started these Butler rumors, but don't have any chance to get him and that spacing would be likely the worst in the whole NBA.

Agreed. The only (barely) conceivable way to get Butler (who I have always wanted on the Spurs) is to flip Derozan. I can't see that happening.

[21209]

So are the Spurs for the foreseeable future.

So are all of the other teams in the league as long as Golden State keeps their current roster intact.

[mo7888]

Again, going all-in is about mindset, not about a particular player. It just means you make moves with the next 2 years in mind and not beyond.

Think of it this way: SA was pitching Kawhi that they could bring in more win-now help. They only swapped Kawhi for another win-now type player in DeRozan so wouldn’t the pitch to DeRozan/LMA be the same for Kawhi/LMA? It should be.

This

[raybies]

Again, going all-in is about mindset, not about a particular player. It just means you make moves with the next 2 years in mind and not beyond.

Think of it this way: SA was pitching Kawhi that they could bring in more win-now help. They only swapped Kawhi for another win-now type player in DeRozan so wouldn’t the pitch to DeRozan/LMA be the same for Kawhi/LMA? It should be.
Pop just said in his presser yesterday that the focus has never been short term that it's a combination of both... don't lose any sleep over this my friend. Name a win now move the Spurs have made in the last 20 years that involved trading young players with upside for established players.

But yes I understand the heart of the matter here, it's just you don't know what you have to shoot for a win now. Now if you lose in the WCF and you think you are one move away from winning it all then I see it but even then PATFO's philosophy has been to bring it back and let them see if they can do it. It's just not our way to make an absolution that this is now or never. PATFO's goal is continued excellence not selling the barn for a two year window. I'm really excited to watch the youth grow. This was what it was like when we had Timmy. You hoped one of the youth would turn out to take us to another level and it happened with two not just one. We build. We are a small town team. We develop. That's how we do things. Keep the faith bruh. Murray or White cold be special. Lonny could be special. They already are shooting for the fences with these picks, going for high upside. They haven't made a role player pick in the first in the last three years. You draft with the mindset of going all in because it's all in your control. You trade and you risk your future and you risk your "culture" (lol). Adding big names to the program with big responsibilities is tough for this program because they know what it's like in different situation... (parable of the two masters..) We almost lost LMA but he's a Spur now. Took him 3 years to buy in. We alright man. I'm a fan of basketball and people so forgive me for saying the following but it's not championship or bust for me. Pop said as much as well. Finding contentment for rooting for your team and experiencing the growth and ups and downs which ulitmately leads to championship is important too. It's the reality we enjoy that takes our mind off life. Enjoy the ride. Sorry for the rant. This entire post isn't just aimed at what you said by the way but to the generalities of this forum...

[Mugen]

They are high on Murray and he's the only one capable of bringing back a player of value.

I guess you could attach a couple of first round picks to get rid of Patty/Pau to bring back a good-ish player on a worse contract. Maybe you go Patty + 1st for Covington but not sure if Philly would go for it.

Unfortunately, I think they stand pat and head into next season with the group they have. They'll probably add a Keith Bogans type player to fill the huge gaping hole at SF or call Blossomgame up to the big leagues. Both sound like horrible options but oh well.

Blame should be solely on Kawhi for putting them in this mess. But the trade pretty much signaled "We're in a terrible situation. Let's just try to get 50 games for the next 2 years so Pop doesn't have to coach a rebuild and the local fans actually show up." I doubt they have the cajones to actually go "all in." They're shook and understandably so.

[Spurs da champs]

What you're saying would be much more possible if Spurs took deal with Clippers on draft night tbh.

[Fusternino]

Ultimately, Spurs are improved from just a month ago - with a more clearcut agenda in terms of culture and focus on winning (I hope). Locker room should be more stable, in all regards. Just by that, the product on the floor should be improved.

I think the front office was also concerned about the type of locker room culture guys like Murray/White/Walker were going to develop in with the insidiousness of Kawhi's malcontentedness and unprofessionalism - even more so if the rumours of J.Simmons/Dedmon and Green forming a clique with him are true. They've cleared that out and brought in a solid locker room presence in Derozan, while adding/retaining stable vets like Belinelli/Gay/Cunningham/Gasol/Mills. Wildcard is LMA, but even his moodiness is more of a quirk than a cancer like Kawhi's.

Long term direction is still under question, but in 2020 or 2021 cap space (depending on what they do) is there. They can even carve out close to $30M next summer with a few easy moves if they're confident in a Murray/Derozan/LMA core.

Is that why (Green being part of this "clique") Spurs were content to ship off Green or was it entirely desperation to get the trade done?

[Mugen]

Nobody's touching the Warriors anyways. The Lakers are doing the same thing. They got a big fish in LeBron and they've sold their retarded fanbase that the overrated young guys + LeBron is enough to contend. Ticket prices are up and they're somewhat relevant again so life is good. Maybe they luck into another big FA next summer and actually contend but they're fine if not.

If you don't have the luck to get a championship squad together, the next best thing is getting the locals to care about you, show up to games, spend money on churros/hotdog...and be good from a business side perspective. Even more important for a small market team like the Spurs.

[Hoops Czar]

So are all of the other teams in the league as long as Golden State keeps their current roster intact.
No, you don't understand. They're done. They sold their future for a moody one dimensional offensive minded player so they can buy a piece of mediocrity for the next three years before going into a long rebuilding process that could take a decade or more to get back into contention. How long can it take to rebuild a franchise from ground zero? Ask the Phoenix Suns or Sacramento Kings. They're still at it.

Good luck attracting max free agents in free agency with a "do the minimum" front office and the lack of young controllable assets\building blocks required to get them here. They have no building blocks for the future and they don't have much financial flexibility or future cap space to significantly improve the roster. The Kawhi trade was basically the death penalty for the franchise. To call the PATFO overrated would be doing them an injustice. They're flat out awful, bottom 10 in the NBA, hiding behind Tim Duncan's greatest for 19 years.

Not only did this clown shoes of a FO give Kawhi away in a salary dump, they threw in Danny Green and 5M for FREE! The Holts should never have put their faith in a GM that graduated from Friends Univeristy.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

They aren't trying to contend, they're trying to be a treadmill team in basketball purgatory so Pop doesn't have to go out on a bottom-feeder. They'll try to keep relevant to keep the cash flow going while Pop does his farewell tour regardless of how it hurts the team.

BOOM

Spot on :tu

[barbacoataco]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being competitive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

[MannyIsGod]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being competitive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

Spurs fans just don't get how much rebuilding sucks.

[Hoops Czar]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being competitive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

Go ahead and support him. Just don't have lofty expectation. He's basically an outcast.

[BSfromTX]

Pop won't mortgage the future for now. He wants to maintain a few good center pieces and build around that (on the go so to speak). I for one wouldn't mind scrapping the whole thing and stock piling young talent and picks and let them get their feet wet, but that is not the direction Pop is going. To "go all in" at this point is not something that is a must. We have until the trade deadline to make moves and see what we have in White, Walker, Murray, and Jakob. Those four could prove to be better than anticipated and is worth holding to see and/or build value for future moves.

I'm not sure what moves we could make this year that would put us past a healthy GSW or Boston or Philly. Those three teams will be deadly next year, and not be beatable unless there are significant injuries.

At this point I think we should be patient, play the young guns and enjoy watching them play and get good experience. Perhaps a few injuries change the fate of this year?

I don't want to see us do anything out of desperation, and that usually not PATFO's MO

[Hoops Czar]

Pop won't mortgage the future for now. He wants to maintain a few good center pieces and build around that (on the go so to speak). I for one wouldn't mind scrapping the whole thing and stock piling young talent and picks and let them get their feet wet, but that is not the direction Pop is going. To "go all in" at this point is not something that is a must. We have until the trade deadline to make moves and see what we have in White, Walker, Murray, and Jakob. Those four could prove to be better than anticipated and is worth holding to see and/or build value for future moves.

I'm not sure what moves we could make this year that would put us past a healthy GSW or Boston or Philly. Those three teams will be deadly next year, and not be beatable unless there are significant injuries.

At this point I think we should be patient, play the young guns and enjoy watching them play and get good experience. Perhaps a few injuries change the fate of this year?

I don't want to see us do anything out of desperation, and that usually not PATFO's MO

Too late.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being competitive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.

:tu not to mention only missing the playoffs once out of the last 29 seasons and four times in the 45 seasons the team has been in SA. Spurs fans are some spoiled MFers.

[raybies]

Why does everyone want the Spurs to suck? The whole strategy of "rebuilding" and intentionally being awful is overrated. It is very popular in the MLB right now and it's becoming very clear that it doesn't usually work. In the meantime you lose your fan base. At the end of the day you still have to get a good pick in the lottery and then hope your prospect turns out.

Everyone outside of this board admires PATFO and their track record of being competitive for 20 years straight. Just because they don't win a championship every year doesn't mean their incompetent.

I am a Spurs fan for life. I'm ready to support DeRozan.

Spurs fans are spoiled and want more than 5 rings in 18 years.
Quality post man... post more!

[Fusternino]

Still waiting to hear about Kawhi and his relationship with Dedmon/Simmons . . .

[Dre_7]

September 1st!

[TD 21]

Butler.

Would a desperate Wolves team go for a Butler for DeRozan trade? They would be securing an all-star for the next three seasons for a guy that would leave for nothing in the offseason. I mean, if PATFO fell for it, maybe Thibs does too.

Nah, unless Butler tells them before the trade deadline that he's not re-signing, I think they'll play it out with him and hope that the money wins out in the end.

Either way, DeRozan would literally be the worst possible fit with Wiggins, whose a poor man's version. They'd be better off swapping Butler for more of a 3 and D type, like Middleton (Butler wouldn't be a good fit with Antetokounmpo, but they might do it just for the pure talent upgrade, especially if they think they might lose Middleton anyway).

[Gordonicci]

.................................................. ........................................
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=ydyca4hq

Throw them as many picks as needed to make it happen. IMO, FWIW,YMMV, NAIAS, SYLPRFD.
.................................................. ........................................

[T Park]

.................................................. ........................................
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=ydyca4hq

Throw them as many picks as needed to make it happen. IMO, FWIW,YMMV, NAIAS, SYLPRFD.
.................................................. ........................................


I like this but think you don’t trade a guy who you just signed. Leave Gibson out as well

[Gordonicci]

I like this but think you don’t trade a guy who you just signed. Leave Gibson out as well
Yar. I like it so much I had to surround it with blue font......LMAO.

Also, Belli is included strictly because his salary makes it work and we would have to give them something of value (other than DJ) in order to dump Pau.

Still, it's a pipe dream. No way they accept that bullshit even if Jimmy becomes a cancer this season.

Edit: Patty DJ and Bertans (sending picks to them as well) for Jimmy straight up works salary wise. I'd rather dump Pau but I doubt they bite on that. Patty still has more perceived value around the league.

[T Park]

I think they’re done trade wise unless they include a first plus a young guy. Mills isn’t tradeable. Gasoline could be shipped out, but I doubt that as well

[Gordonicci]

I think they’re done trade wise unless they include a first plus a young guy. Mills isn’t tradeable. Gasoline could be shipped out, but I doubt that as well
See edit above. It makes more sense for the TPUPS this way.

[YoungbuckMurray]

Multiple league sources said the three-team trade is not expected to be completed in the coming days. One of the sources said that’s because the #Sixers are working on another move.

maybe something with the spurs??

[KDKSpurs24]

OKC just got a lot better by removing Carmelo and adding a nice scoring punch to be their 6th man. Gonna be strong defensively. Spurs definitely need a real 3&D SF..

[KDKSpurs24]

Multiple league sources said the three-team trade is not expected to be completed in the coming days. One of the sources said that’s because the #Sixers are working on another move.

maybe something with the spurs??
I really hope so.. Covington. I’d take Chandler as a last resort but he doesn’t play any defense.

[YoungbuckMurray]

Would Sixers do.. Covington and Bayless for Gasol +1st?

[KDKSpurs24]

Would Sixers do.. Covington and Bayless for Gasol +1st?
I hope so.. I’d want it to be Mills. But then if it’s Gasol I’d hope Spurs would pick up someone like Okafor for cheap in FA. Or a stretch 5.

[YoungbuckMurray]

I hope so.. I’d want it to be Mills. But then if it’s Gasol I’d hope Spurs would pick up someone like Okafor for cheap in FA. Or a stretch 5.

Gasol worked on trade machine, mills didn’t and I think mills can be good of the bench playing with a lot of ball movement

[KDKSpurs24]

Gasol worked on trade machine, mills didn’t and I think mills can be good of the bench playing with a lot of ball movement
I understand. And yeah true I guess I just dislike smaller players who are a liability on defense. It’s gonna suck when Pop has him switched on Lebron, KD and Paul George!

[Gordonicci]

Would Sixers do.. Covington and Bayless for Gasol +1st?
I think they'd want a little more from us than a geriatric Gasol and a (not very good) pick. Maybe throw in one (or two) of our more worthless young guards. Sixers need shooting BADLY.

[KDKSpurs24]

I think they'd want a little more from us than a geriatric Gasol and a (not very good) pick. Maybe throw in one (or two) of our more worthless young guards. Sixers need shooting BADLY.
Hell, taking back Bayless’s contract should be good enough :lol Probably not but i’d hope.

[YoungbuckMurray]

I think they'd want a little more from us than a geriatric Gasol and a (not very good) pick. Maybe throw in one (or two) of our more worthless young guards. Sixers need shooting BADLY.

Forbes may actually be good for them. He can make some 3’s in limited minutes

[Gordonicci]

Forbes may actually be good for them. He can make some 3’s in limited minutes
Yep, I was thinking Forbes as well. We need to thin out some of these small guards that we have. That's why I'd be VERY happy to package two (or three) of them in a deal to get a legit wing

[Chinook]

I wonder how far off the team would be in trading for a guy like Conley. It's a huge game with that salary, but the guy went for 23/4/7 per 36 on a TS% of 60.4 in his most recent healthy season. No question in my mind that a Conley who could replicate those numbers would vault SA into contending status if DeRozan and LMA can have years like last season. But of course, $100 Million is a prohibitive amount to spend on a guy who hasn't been healthy. The only reason why SA could even entertain this is because they no longer have to pay the DPE to Leonard. They can get and keep Conley for his contract while avoiding the tax. If he's cheap enough (like Mills, Gasol and the Toronto first), I'd go for it. Go big or go home, and they'd get to keep all their young prospects anyway.

[DPG21920]

I wonder how far off the team would be in trading for a guy like Conley. It's a huge game with that salary, but the guy went for 23/4/7 per 36 on a TS% of 60.4 in his most recent healthy season. No question in my mind that a Conley who could replicate those numbers would vault SA into contending status if DeRozan and LMA can have years like last season. But of course, $100 Million is a prohibitive amount to spend on a guy who hasn't been healthy. The only reason why SA could even entertain this is because they no longer have to pay the DPE to Leonard. They can get and keep Conley for his contract while avoiding the tax. If he's cheap enough (like Mills, Gasol and the Toronto first), I'd go for it. Go big or go home, and they'd get to keep all their young prospects anyway.

I would be fine doing something like that for sure - anyone that has 2-3 years left is a target. I don’t think MEM would do it now though. They seem to be trying to be a playoff team and just received a huge shot in the arm with JJJ.

If they falter badly to start, he might be able to be had then (assuming he does not look busted).

[Seventyniner]

After looking at the list of high-salaried players, higher than $20M, it looks like only Otto Porter and Bradley Beal could be had as salary dumps (outside of Conley himself), and that's only if the Wizards can be convinced to take a step back this coming season, a hard sell given LeBron's departure. Porter fits the lineup much better (44.1% 3FG on 4 attempts per game last season and is actually a SF), but I'm not sure how WAS values those players compared to each other.

[objective]

Wizards probably just stretch waive Mahinmi next summer, they might not need to salary dump

[PennSpur]

Pau for Bazemore would make some sense. Would give us one true SF and clear minutes for Poeltl. Bazemore's contract is fully guaranteed in 2019, so the Spurs would be forgoing any hope of clearing cap room next season. That said, they're unlikely to have meaningful space even if they waive Pau & stretch his $6.7M guarantee this summer.

[marinoman]

I know he’s another guard but id much rather have beal than porter, the wizards shoulnt have matched (Brooklyn) I think to keep him, big mistake

[MannyIsGod]

I wonder how far off the team would be in trading for a guy like Conley. It's a huge game with that salary, but the guy went for 23/4/7 per 36 on a TS% of 60.4 in his most recent healthy season. No question in my mind that a Conley who could replicate those numbers would vault SA into contending status if DeRozan and LMA can have years like last season. But of course, $100 Million is a prohibitive amount to spend on a guy who hasn't been healthy. The only reason why SA could even entertain this is because they no longer have to pay the DPE to Leonard. They can get and keep Conley for his contract while avoiding the tax. If he's cheap enough (like Mills, Gasol and the Toronto first), I'd go for it. Go big or go home, and they'd get to keep all their young prospects anyway.

With the path we're on now a move like this would be fine, IMO. I think this might be possible if Memphis is still as toxic as they were last year early on. The motivation to blow that team up will have to grow pretty high pretty early on in the year if they struggle. I don't think they'll do it before then, though.

[TD 21]

Pau for Bazemore would make some sense. Would give us one true SF and clear minutes for Poeltl. Bazemore's contract is fully guaranteed in 2019, so the Spurs would be forgoing any hope of clearing cap room next season. That said, they're unlikely to have meaningful space even if they waive Pau & stretch his $6.7M guarantee this summer.

Bazemore is not a true SF. Despite his 6'11.5'' wingspan, he's only 6'5'' 201. James, Antetokounmpo, Leonard, Butler, etc. would bulldoze him, while Durant, George, etc. would shoot up over the top.

Even Carroll (6'7'' 215, 6'10'' wingspan) isn't big/strong/long enough to guard most of them. I know James is a near impossible standard, but he's destroyed him with ease multiple times in the playoffs.

[MannyIsGod]

I think this is the time of year that teams talk themselves into believing they're going to be competitive. I think there are a lot of teams out there that may or may not be good, and the ones that aren't good might look to blow it up. Teams like Milwaukee, Memphis, Washington, Minnesota all come to mind as places where trades might be had if they don't succeed in the first third of the season.

[Chinook]

Bazemore is not a true SF. Despite his 6'11.5'' wingspan, he's only 6'5'' 201. James, Antetokounmpo, Leonard, Butler, etc. would bulldoze him, while Durant, George, etc. would shoot up over the top.

Even Carroll (6'7'' 215, 6'10'' wingspan) isn't big/strong/long enough to guard most of them. I know James is a near impossible standard, but he's destroyed him with ease multiple times in the playoffs.

This is why they may as well run with DeRozan. There are a few players who can physically match up with those guys, and most of them are either superstars or have so many issues of their own that they really don't fit on a winning team. Covington and Ariza are notable exceptions, and they've had their own defensive issues and aren't for sale in any event. In some ways, if they get another wing, it makes sense to go for an offensive two-guard like Fournier. Like sure, Evan isn't shutting down anyone, but he's not an embarrassment on that end, and he adds another "live" player to the starting lineup to hurt opposing defenses.

[TD 21]

This is why they may as well run with DeRozan. There are a few players who can physically match up with those guys, and most of them are either superstars or have so many issues of their own that they really don't fit on a winning team. Covington and Ariza are notable exceptions, and they've had their own defensive issues and aren't for sale in any event. In some ways, if they get another wing, it makes sense to go for an offensive two-guard like Fournier. Like sure, Evan isn't shutting down anyone, but he's not an embarrassment on that end, and he adds another "live" player to the starting lineup to hurt opposing defenses.

It doesn't make sense to burden your go to offensive creator like that, when he's a terrible defender to begin with.

Even an all-time great defender like Leonard benefitted from having another very good defender in Green, who could swap many assignments.

Ariza may come available at the trade deadline or after in the buyout window. If the Spurs are a fringe playoff team at that point, a pick that could be mid 40s, along with Gasol, could have appeal to the Suns. Same with the Nets and Carroll (he's still better than nothing).

It's all dependant on Ginobili retiring though because otherwise there's no room in the rotation.

[mo7888]

Wizards probably just stretch waive Mahinmi next summer, they might not need to salary dump

But they are over the tax now and we could alleviate their problem this summer.

[CGD]

The Toronto 1st is almost worthless. (Top 20 protected).

The protections are overrated. Even if it were unprotected it probably would have landed in that range anyway if KL plays. The East is still utter shit.

[CGD]

But they are over the tax now and we could alleviate their problem this summer.

I agree. I think they’re as play with the Wiz (plus I think there are lockerroom issues there).

Beal would be insane here, but i don’t think they just salary dump him. Porter has a crazy contract. He’d fit the SF gap but I’d want more.

[johnnymoore]

I agree. I think they’re as play with the Wiz (plus I think there are lockerroom issues there).

Beal would be insane here, but i don’t think they just salary dump him. Porter has a crazy contract. He’d fit the SF gap but I’d want more.

Wiz just added Dwight Howard and Austin Rivers - they're trying to make a run, not salary dump or tank.

[CGD]

Wiz just added Dwight Howard and Austin Rivers - they're trying to make a run, not salary dump or tank.

Yeah, we’ll see where that Howard experiment is by Christmas. I think they’d love to move Porter if they could.

[Ice009]

...if its true, Like Kori said, tht the medical has been waiwed from the negotiations, that puts a total different light on the trade. And the 5 millions we had to give them confirms it.
Looks like they decided to mantain their integrity at all costs...and proceeding on eliminating all players (last year Simmons and Deadmon, this year Kiwhi...better say his uncle) trying to sabotage the winning mentality (alas team first mentality) that's been builded in years and that is so necessary in a small market team to make it successful.
As for Kyle I don't buy he was a problem but simply the price was too high. As for Green, he was already showing his will to leave, and opted in just because of dry market considerations.
For as much I don't love DDR game one thing has to be said: his carachter is the one of a good human being...and his game has been builded with patience, till reaching the actual success. Apart for the obvious decline by age, his three contract years are still prime years. If he buys in the role Pop is preparing for him, ha has all the tools to shine in our system and gain, in any case, a lot of marketability.
As for Poeltl, he looks like a good soldier...and any time I've seen him play he played well. I think that with playing time he can learn a lot and become something really valuable.

I still think the trade is abysmal and that OG should have been included to make it decent. But the point (explained from eliminating the medical exams from th deal and the 5 millions) is that the absolute priority was to push Kiwhi out from any more contact with any spurs players or coaches as soon as possible...

What do you mean by "maintain their integrity"?

Wouldn't it have been better for the Spurs if there was a medical and it proved nothing is wrong with him, or do you guys think he really does have a degenerative condition? If he is 100% healthy, then a physical would have been a good thing that could have made the Spurs look better, and if they were confident he is 100% healthy and would pass the physical, maybe the Spurs could have asked for more?

Or was getting the Raptors to waive the physical just to make sure Kawhi doesn't skip it and void the trade? If there was a physical and he didn't show up (even if he is 100% healthy), would the trade have been cancelled?

[Payote75]

Please move Porter here to the Spurs love the guy fits perfectly and he would get the shots he deserves here and in this system I could see him flourishing.

[apalisoc_9]

https://i.imgur.com/ZK9P4b1.png

[Fusternino]

Otto Porter Jr. would be a great addition to the Spurs. Grunfeld is a horrible GM, so it could be done.

[Payote75]

What do you guys honestly think it would take to get Otto porter jr. Realistically!!!

[Gordonicci]

Washington has no reason to dump one of the best young wings in the league. If they did that they could say goodbye to Wall.

[venitian navigator]

What do you mean by "maintain their integrity"?

Wouldn't it have been better for the Spurs if there was a medical and it proved nothing is wrong with him, or do you guys think he really does have a degenerative condition? If he is 100% healthy, then a physical would have been a good thing that could have made the Spurs look better, and if they were confident he is 100% healthy and would pass the physical, maybe the Spurs could have asked for more?

Or was getting the Raptors to waive the physical just to make sure Kawhi doesn't skip it and void the trade? If there was a physical and he didn't show up (even if he is 100% healthy), would the trade have been cancelled?

I was speaking more in the sense of the way they behave as a team, more than all the "get over yourself way". Its not something new that players like Simmons, Deadmon gave problems pretending to be paid and have minutes like stars just one year after their best career stats have been made inside the system...they behaved in an egoistic way, that's not our way. So my way or the highway. Imho, apart any considerations on their personality, they made weird choices, receiving from other teams maybe the same money the Spurs would have given them, but playing in losing environments and probsbly lacking future developments in their game.
That said, you have a point thinking that the (not only moral but also phisycal) integrity has been part of the Kiwhi trade...bcause if its true, like has been reported, that they waiwed the phisical from the trade, the only point is nthat the Spurs were not that sure about Kiwhi real conditions...if its true that the medicals from the Kiwhi's group have never been shown to them. So they wanted to avoid at all costs the risk to have back a not only disgruntled but also possibly broken, player.

[BackHome]

Pop just said in his presser yesterday that the focus has never been short term that it's a combination of both... don't lose any sleep over this my friend. Name a win now move the Spurs have made in the last 20 years that involved trading young players with upside for established players.

But yes I understand the heart of the matter here, it's just you don't know what you have to shoot for a win now. Now if you lose in the WCF and you think you are one move away from winning it all then I see it but even then PATFO's philosophy has been to bring it back and let them see if they can do it. It's just not our way to make an absolution that this is now or never. PATFO's goal is continued excellence not selling the barn for a two year window. I'm really excited to watch the youth grow. This was what it was like when we had Timmy. You hoped one of the youth would turn out to take us to another level and it happened with two not just one. We build. We are a small town team. We develop. That's how we do things. Keep the faith bruh. Murray or White cold be special. Lonny could be special. They already are shooting for the fences with these picks, going for high upside. They haven't made a role player pick in the first in the last three years. You draft with the mindset of going all in because it's all in your control. You trade and you risk your future and you risk your "culture" (lol). Adding big names to the program with big responsibilities is tough for this program because they know what it's like in different situation... (parable of the two masters..) We almost lost LMA but he's a Spur now. Took him 3 years to buy in. We alright man. I'm a fan of basketball and people so forgive me for saying the following but it's not championship or bust for me. Pop said as much as well. Finding contentment for rooting for your team and experiencing the growth and ups and downs which ulitmately leads to championship is important too. It's the reality we enjoy that takes our mind off life. Enjoy the ride. Sorry for the rant. This entire post isn't just aimed at what you said by the way but to the generalities of this forum...

Great post Raybies could not have said it better !!!!!

[CGD]

Washington has no reason to dump one of the best young wings in the league. If they did that they could say goodbye to Wall.

If you mean Beal, yes. Porter and his inflated deal? I think they’re happy to move that one if they can.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

Trade LMA and DD. Tank until you get a franchise player.

[dbestpro]

This may seem odd, but Bruce Bowen did not come to the Spurs until he was 30. His stats up to that point are very similar to Dante Cunningham. Dante is listed as a defensive minded SF who can also play PF. He just turned 31. Avery Johnson, Bruce Bowen, and Danny Green were all bench players who became critical components in the Spurs success. Perhaps Cunningham will bring some of the same magic.

[Gordonicci]

If you mean Beal, yes. Porter and his inflated deal? I think they’re happy to move that one if they can.
I meant Porter. Yeah, his deal is inflated but Wall would likely see it as a sign that they were not willing to spend the money to win if they move Porter for financial reasons. He's not worth his salary (few players are) but he IS one of the best 3 ball shooters in the league.

[Chinook]

I meant Porter. Yeah, his deal is inflated but Wall would likely see it as a sign that they were not willing to spend the money to win if they move Porter for financial reasons. He's not worth his salary (few players are) but he IS one of the best 3 ball shooters in the league.

Who gives a shit what Wall thinks? He lost the ability to complain when he signed that DPE.

[Gordonicci]

Who gives a shit what Wall thinks? He lost the ability to complain when he signed that DPE.
The Wizards do. The league is heading in a direction where the players (and third party endorsers) will hold all the power. Kawhi's episode is just the most recent and egregious example of this but it'll get worse. Far worse. Wall strikes me as an emo bitch but he IS the face of that franchise and they aren't gonna want to piss him off by being cheap.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Porter. I just don't think the wizards are at the point yet where they would move him especially since James is gone from the east. They don;t have any realistic shot at reaching the finals but they could win a series or two.

I think a much more realistic target would be Taurean Prince.

[KDKSpurs24]

The Wizards do. The league is heading in a direction where the players (and third party endorsers) will hold all the power. Kawhi's episode is just the most recent and egregious example of this but it'll get worse. Far worse. Wall strikes me as an emo bitch but he IS the face of that franchise and they aren't gonna want to piss him off by being cheap.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Porter. I just don't think the wizards are at the point yet where they would move him especially since James is gone from the east. They don;t have any realistic shot at reaching the finals but they could win a series or two.

I think a much more realistic target would be Taurean Prince.
I don’t even think Prince is a realistic target without giving up Lonnie Walker and a pick or something. I definitely don’t want to do that. I’d love to have Prince tho!

[Gordonicci]

I don’t even think Prince is a realistic target without giving up Lonnie Walker and a pick or something. I definitely don’t want to do that. I’d love to have Prince tho!
Honest question:
Would Walker really be an overpay for a player like Prince? I mean, I know it's that time of year when everyone is excited about our newest draft pick but what are you guys seeing in him? He's athletic certainly. Has all the tools ect. I just didn;t see anything in his summer league minutes to make me think "All Star."

[Chinook]

I just don't really think the SF route's the way to go. There's better potential value in guards right now, especially those who can change the complexion of the offense. The SF market is inflated because there's really no middle class. The great ones are superstars at the absolute top of the league, and then the next their is immediately overpaid role-player. What makes it worse is that even though role-players like Cov, Ingles and Mids are too valuable for the Spurs to get. They almost have to hope they can "make" their own role-playing defensive forward, like those other teams did. Blossomgame is their best in-house bet there. Putney is another candidate with 3.5 combined blocks and steals in 29 minutes in the d-league last season. Both are just so damned old though (with Putz being 28).

Here is the list of d-leaguers who averaged more than 1 block and more than 1 steal last season:

http://stats.gleague.nba.com/leaders/#!/?StatCategory=BLK&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=STL*GE*1%7CBLK*GE*1

The main trait there is that all of those guys are awful shooters. In order to get a passable shooter, you have to lower the numbers down to 1.4/1.4 per 48. That brings in Jarrod Uthoff, who honestly doesn't seem that bad. Dude is 6-10 with a 6-11.5 wingspan, and he can put it on the floor to attack closeouts. He averaged 17/8/3 in 33 minutes with a combined block and steal. His shooting left a lot to be desired, however. Would almost certainly benefit from having a smaller role on a better ballclub. I think he has the game to be adequate on that end.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCarrXb26uU

Kamari Murphy is another player of interest. He seemed to have been playing center last year, but he showed decent handles and agility, so he could probably move down at least one position in the pros. I liked what I saw of him in terms of mobility on D and his ability to get open on O. However, he can't shoot and doesn't try to, and that probably is what's stopping him from being anything but a center more than his physical tools. I'd still have him in camp:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmN5ujR7vUo

Derek Willis is that last guy I'll talk about in this post. Dude has been playing the four in the d-league, and I'm not sure he has the athleticism to play down more than that. But he seems like a dynamic shooter who would benefit from getting better looks. Him being able to shoot on the move is really what sells him to me. He averaged 12 and 7 last season with an assist, block and steal in 28 minutes a game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CQj08fPmxg

For various reasons, I like all these players, in addition to Blossomgame and Putney. If I were the Spurs, I'd bring in four of this type of player into camp to compete for the final spot, with the runner-up getting a two-way. Hell, if I could swing it, I'd try to get a second player like that on the big roster. Though with Cunningham, maybe there isn't a need for that, nor is there an easy way to get a second open spot. Still, the name of the game needs to be competition, just like they did with backup PG before Patty won it way back when and starting two-guard before Danny seized it. I just don't think they're going to be able to acquire a guy who can come in and start without giving up more than they should. The better value is definitely in guards, whether it's an All-Star like Kemba or a decent-if-streaky starter like Fournier. Considering need for shooting and Murray's and DeRozan's lack of that, they'll need to prioritize having two shooters at the second wing and second forward spots. Much easier to get that from a guard than a defensive forward.

[Chinook]

The Wizards do. The league is heading in a direction where the players (and third party endorsers) will hold all the power. Kawhi's episode is just the most recent and egregious example of this but it'll get worse. Far worse. Wall strikes me as an emo bitch but he IS the face of that franchise and they aren't gonna want to piss him off by being cheap.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Porter. I just don't think the wizards are at the point yet where they would move him especially since James is gone from the east. They don;t have any realistic shot at reaching the finals but they could win a series or two.

I think a much more realistic target would be Taurean Prince.

No, I don't think they care at this point. They can't trade him. He's a toxic contract. So he won't be able to force them to do anything. If he tries to sit out, they will do everything they can to get out of that contract. I think they'd probably welcome that, actually. I don't disagree about Washington not wanting to trade Porter. Oubre is the one on the block right now. But they certainly aren't letting Wall call the shots. Or at least they shouldn't.

[Chinook]

Honest question:
Would Walker really be an overpay for a player like Prince? I mean, I know it's that time of year when everyone is excited about our newest draft pick but what are you guys seeing in him? He's athletic certainly. Has all the tools ect. I just didn;t see anything in his summer league minutes to make me think "All Star."

I'm not touching Prince for anything other than Paul/Manu's contract and a pick. I'm definitely not trading Walker, who has the highest ceiling for any young player on the team. They may as well try to get KBD from Minny with the Toronto pick. That would solve their problem without involving any guard prospect. Yes, I'm butt-hurt about missing out on him and probably won't ever stop unless he completely fails to do anything, in which case I'll pretend like I never wanted him...

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs should not trade Murray, White or Lonnie for a win now piece.

The two 1st round picks in 19, future 1sts in 20, rights to Milutinov, Belinelli ( eventually), Bertans ( eventually), Forbes ( eventually), Pau, Patty are all fair game.

I would not trade 21 yr old DeJounte for Kemba.

[MaNu4Tres]

Pau Gasol to Detriot for Stanley Johnson & Jon Leuer.

Waive Brandon Paul.

[sasaint]

Pau Gasol to Detriot for Stanley Johnson & Jon Leuer.

Waive Brandon Paul.

Why would Detroit do that?

[Seventyniner]

Who gives a shit what Wall thinks? He lost the ability to complain when he signed that DPE.

We just witnessed how a player can try and torch a franchise even while under contract. Wall isn't nearly as good as He Who Shall Not Be Named Part Two, but he can still poison a locker room.

[Ice009]

If you mean Beal, yes. Porter and his inflated deal? I think they’re happy to move that one if they can.

I remember reading somewhere or maybe saw a video where someone said the difference between Otto Porter and Kawhi was that Kawhi was drafted by the Spurs. If that is the case, then I will take Otto right away if Washington wants to trade him.

[sasaint]

We just witnessed how a player can try and torch a franchise even while under contract. Wall isn't nearly as good as He Who Shall Not Be Named Part Two, but he can still poison a locker room.

:lol But can we just shorten it to Part 2? I kind of like the double entendres of "Number 2", though.

[mo7888]

I just don't really think the SF route's the way to go. There's better potential value in guards right now, especially those who can change the complexion of the offense. The SF market is inflated because there's really no middle class. The great ones are superstars at the absolute top of the league, and then the next their is immediately overpaid role-player. What makes it worse is that even though role-players like Cov, Ingles and Mids are too valuable for the Spurs to get. They almost have to hope they can "make" their own role-playing defensive forward, like those other teams did. Blossomgame is their best in-house bet there. Putney is another candidate with 3.5 combined blocks and steals in 29 minutes in the d-league last season. Both are just so damned old though (with Putz being 28).

Here is the list of d-leaguers who averaged more than 1 block and more than 1 steal last season:

http://stats.gleague.nba.com/leaders/#!/?StatCategory=BLK&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=STL*GE*1%7CBLK*GE*1

The main trait there is that all of those guys are awful shooters. In order to get a passable shooter, you have to lower the numbers down to 1.4/1.4 per 48. That brings in Jarrod Uthoff, who honestly doesn't seem that bad. Dude is 6-10 with a 6-11.5 wingspan, and he can put it on the floor to attack closeouts. He averaged 17/8/3 in 33 minutes with a combined block and steal. His shooting left a lot to be desired, however. Would almost certainly benefit from having a smaller role on a better ballclub. I think he has the game to be adequate on that end.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCarrXb26uU

Kamari Murphy is another player of interest. He seemed to have been playing center last year, but he showed decent handles and agility, so he could probably move down at least one position in the pros. I liked what I saw of him in terms of mobility on D and his ability to get open on O. However, he can't shoot and doesn't try to, and that probably is what's stopping him from being anything but a center more than his physical tools. I'd still have him in camp:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmN5ujR7vUo

Derek Willis is that last guy I'll talk about in this post. Dude has been playing the four in the d-league, and I'm not sure he has the athleticism to play down more than that. But he seems like a dynamic shooter who would benefit from getting better looks. Him being able to shoot on the move is really what sells him to me. He averaged 12 and 7 last season with an assist, block and steal in 28 minutes a game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CQj08fPmxg

For various reasons, I like all these players, in addition to Blossomgame and Putney. If I were the Spurs, I'd bring in four of this type of player into camp to compete for the final spot, with the runner-up getting a two-way. Hell, if I could swing it, I'd try to get a second player like that on the big roster. Though with Cunningham, maybe there isn't a need for that, nor is there an easy way to get a second open spot. Still, the name of the game needs to be competition, just like they did with backup PG before Patty won it way back when and starting two-guard before Danny seized it. I just don't think they're going to be able to acquire a guy who can come in and start without giving up more than they should. The better value is definitely in guards, whether it's an All-Star like Kemba or a decent-if-streaky starter like Fournier. Considering need for shooting and Murray's and DeRozan's lack of that, they'll need to prioritize having two shooters at the second wing and second forward spots. Much easier to get that from a guard than a defensive forward.

I'd definitely bring in uthoff to compete for a spot. I think he has real upside as a role player. I don't watch much g-league but I did watch him in summer league. He's a little light but has some skill. I like the way you are thinking there.

[mo7888]

Honest question:
Would Walker really be an overpay for a player like Prince? I mean, I know it's that time of year when everyone is excited about our newest draft pick but what are you guys seeing in him? He's athletic certainly. Has all the tools ect. I just didn;t see anything in his summer league minutes to make me think "All Star."

Walker would be a huge overpay. He has a higher upside and a better contract.

[KDKSpurs24]

Honest question:
Would Walker really be an overpay for a player like Prince? I mean, I know it's that time of year when everyone is excited about our newest draft pick but what are you guys seeing in him? He's athletic certainly. Has all the tools ect. I just didn;t see anything in his summer league minutes to make me think "All Star."
Yes. I really want Prince and he is better now and would be a great fit. But people who were talking about getting picks instead of staying competitive doesnt seem to realize that we have lucked up and have Walker who I think has an extremely high upside. He also seems to have the work ethic to become a great player in this league because he certainly has all of the tools. That’s the thing, he hasn’t even had outstanding numbers in summer league but he completely passes the eye test for me. Under the Spurs development team he will put everything together.

[Seventyniner]

:lol But can we just shorten it to Part 2? I kind of like the double entendres of "Number 2", though.

Yes, let us call him "Number 2" from now on. So many extra meanings there.

https://s15-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Falchetron.com%2Fcdn%2 Fnumber-2-austin-powers-5db2d6bc-7f9c-4412-a6f3-67c12c5e298-resize-750.jpeg&sp=e17b9acdb479715c17f353180c25be6f

[Ice009]

I'm not giving up Lonnie Walker or Murray at this point at all. I want to see what these guys can do and give them a real chance to reach their potential.

[exstatic]

His upside is fine considering he was a late first rounder and I like him well enough. But people are thinking Russell Westbrook when they should probably be thinking better Shuan Livingston. I'd easily ship his ass out with a 1st rounder if it meant getting a guy like Kemba.

I think White and Walker have much more upside than Dejounte tbh but I'm probably in the minority in that camp.

Walker, yes, White, No. Now, keep in mind that we are talking about upside, not current status. White is actually a more complete player now, but I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is. That's the rub in drafting a Senior: There usually isn't much ceiling left.

[SpursDynasty85]

Walker, yes, White, No. Now, keep in mind that we are talking about upside, not current status. White is actually a more complete player now, but I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is. That's the rub in drafting a Senior: There usually isn't much ceiling left.

Agree. White was also like a 5 year senior because he transferred from a Div 2 school. Derrick White is ready to go and looks like a taller and slightly slower version of Patty Mills. Hope he gets consistent minutes this season.

[sasaint]

Walker, yes, White, No. Now, keep in mind that we are talking about upside, not current status. White is actually a more complete player now, but I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is. That's the rub in drafting a Senior: There usually isn't much ceiling left.

As long as White wears a Spurs uniform I don’t think we will ever know. Pop seems much more invested in DJ than White. He is determined to force DJ into the PG role for which he seems pretty ill-suited at this point. Upside? Enormous for a guy who is a poor PG at this juncture. Realistic Upside? Not so much.

White is apparently destined to spend his time as DJ’s backup or being adapted to a SG when he has all the tools to become a very good PG. his upside isn’t much higher, but he already seems like a better PG than DJ. And his realistic ceiling as a PG seems higher than DJ’s.

[exstatic]

I would not be against going for Irving but what we offer?
Murray, Mills and late 1st rounders? Im down but I don’t see it

No. Not after the revelation of how close his Pops is to Uncle Dennis, and that they are similar in temperment.

[exstatic]

Butler.

Would a desperate Wolves team go for a Butler for DeRozan trade? They would be securing an all-star for the next three seasons for a guy that would leave for nothing in the offseason. I mean, if PATFO fell for it, maybe Thibs does too.

Can't do that. A player in a multi-player trade CAN be flipped, but it MUST be a one for one trade, no other players involved, and the salaries do not work. Adding other player(s) makes the teams wait until December.

[CitizenDwayne]

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf is looking pretty good in the Big 3. You know what to do, Pop

[Chinook]

Can't do that. A player in a multi-player trade CAN be flipped, but it MUST be a one for one trade, no other players involved, and the salaries do not work. Adding other player(s) makes the teams wait until December.

It doesn't have to be one-for-one. The Spurs just can't add salary to DeRozan to make it work.

[exstatic]

They are high on Murray and he's the only one capable of bringing back a player of value.

I guess you could attach a couple of first round picks to get rid of Patty/Pau to bring back a good-ish player on a worse contract. Maybe you go Patty + 1st for Covington but not sure if Philly would go for it.

Unfortunately, I think they stand pat and head into next season with the group they have. They'll probably add a Keith Bogans type player to fill the huge gaping hole at SF or call Blossomgame up to the big leagues. Both sound like horrible options but oh well.

Blame should be solely on Kawhi for putting them in this mess. But the trade pretty much signaled "We're in a terrible situation. Let's just try to get 50 games for the next 2 years so Pop doesn't have to coach a rebuild and the local fans actually show up." I doubt they have the cajones to actually go "all in." They're shook and understandably so.

I was thinking that same thing. Doesn't Philly still need some shooting? We SAF could use a 3 and D wing.

[exstatic]

What you're saying would be much more possible if Spurs took deal with Clippers on draft night tbh.

People need to stop pretending that it was actually both lottery picks, because it wasn't.

Oh, and Harris just turned down 4/$80M, so...

[KDKSpurs24]

I was thinking that same thing. Doesn't Philly still need some shooting? We SAF could use a 3 and D wing.
They won’t give up their big shooter for an undersized shooter. They’d likely just want to add shooting without giving up a shooter.

[exstatic]

As long as White wears a Spurs uniform I don’t think we will ever know. Pop seems much more invested in DJ than White. He is determined to force DJ into the PG role for which he seems pretty ill-suited at this point. Upside? Enormous for a guy who is a poor PG at this juncture. Realistic Upside? Not so much.

White is apparently destined to spend his time as DJ’s backup or being adapted to a SG when he has all the tools to become a very good PG. his upside isn’t much higher, but he already seems like a better PG than DJ. And his realistic ceiling as a PG seems higher than DJ’s.

The Spurs have a habit of having players break that "realistic" ceiling. Did anyone REALLY see Kawhi becoming Kawhi? I sure as F didn't. Even Pop, in one interview I read, said he envisioned him becoming like a super Bowen. I think when you draft a kid at #29, and he makes an All ANYTHING team in his second year, you let it play out. Hell, after his second season, Kawhi got two VOTES for All D. If they had such a thing, he would have been like 7th team.

[Spurs da champs]

People need to stop pretending that it was actually both lottery picks, because it wasn't.

Oh, and Harris just turned down 4/$80M, so...
Nobody was saying to keep Harris but he is & was undoubtedly an asset in addition to picks to either keep or flip for a Jimmy Butler possibly. Without giving up Danny Green either. That was undoubtedly the better route than this roster full of guards.

[Mugen]

Yeah soon as I heard Tobias Harris turned down 80mil...instant sigh of relief they didn't do the Clippers deal :lol

[exstatic]

Yeah soon as I heard Tobias Harris turned down 80mil...instant sigh of relief they didn't do the Clippers deal :lol

Werd.

[sasaint]

The Spurs have a habit of having players break that "realistic" ceiling. Did anyone REALLY see Kawhi becoming Kawhi? I sure as F didn't. Even Pop, in one interview I read, said he envisioned him becoming like a super Bowen. I think when you draft a kid at #29, and he makes an All ANYTHING team in his second year, you let it play out. Hell, after his second season, Kawhi got two VOTES for All D. If they had such a thing, he would have been like 7th team.

But Number 2 is your only real example. Who else greatly outperformed realistic expectations?

However, my real point is this: if Pop were equally invested in White, he could maximize his upside at PG, and likely be a very good one very soon with a little experience and polish. To turn DJ into as good a PG will be a harder chore and he realistically can't be expected to be much better in the long run as an unnatural PG as White can be reasonably expected to be as a natural PG much sooner. Granted, IF he can develop a three-point shot as good as White's and handles as good as White's and court vision/passing skill as good as White's then DJ has freakish athletic potential to become an elite player that White lacks.

[exstatic]

But Number 2 is your only real example. Who else greatly outperformed realistic expectations?

However, my real point is this: if Pop were equally invested in White, he could maximize his upside at PG, and likely be a very good one very soon with a little experience and polish. To turn DJ into as good a PG will be a harder chore and he realistically can't be expected to be much better in the long run as an unnatural PG as White can be reasonably expected to be as a natural PG much sooner. Granted, IF he can develop a three-point shot as good as White's and handles as good as White's and court vision/passing skill as good as White's then DJ has freakish athletic potential to become an elite player that White lacks.

They're rolling the dice on him, and I like it. I've already agreed that White is better now. The thing is, White will never break out and be a superstar. DJ could. It may only be a 5 or 10% chance, but a small market team has to take that chance. It's been pretty well established that we're not likely to pull a top shelf FA, and the only other way is to have high draft picks, to tank. If you can do a re-load instead of a rebuild, and come out of it with a top flight 2-way PG, you're set for another 10 years of winning tradition.

I also love that he just FRUSTRATES Westbrook. You can't really ever shut down a superstar, but I think he does the best job of any defensive PG of messing up his game, and getting him unfocused and thinking of the matchup instead of the game.

[sasaint]

They're rolling the dice on him, and I like it. I've already agreed that White is better now. The thing is, White will never break out and be a superstar. DJ could. It may only be a 5 or 10% chance, but a small market team has to take that chance. It's been pretty well established that we're not likely to pull a top shelf FA, and the only other way is to have high draft picks, to tank. If you can do a re-load instead of a rebuild, and come out of it with a top flight 2-way PG, you're set for another 10 years of winning tradition.

I also love that he just FRUSTRATES Westbrook. You can't really ever shut down a superstar, but I think he does the best job of any defensive PG of messing up his game, and getting him unfocused and thinking of the matchup instead of the game.

As long as his skill set doesn't really suit him to PG or SG, then give him room and board at Chip's, spending day and night developing a 3-ball, and hope he turns into a devastating 2-guard. He doesn't also need to improve his handles and develop court vision/passing skill to be a very good SG. He just needs to develop in too many areas for me to think he even has a 10% chance of becoming a really good PG. it seems to me that court vision/passing skill are much more innate than learned. Use the guy who has those innate skills as a PG and use Murray as a SG/wing where his handles are not so critical and there isn't such a need for playmaking. I think White's career is about to be wasted, just as he was relegated needlessly to the GLeague all of last season. Murray is an intriguing, athletic tweener.

[Trueblood]

What could we legitimately get for Pau/Mills +SA 1st in 2019+Tor 1st 2019+Spurs 2020 1st?

Can't give up 1st in consecutive years. It would have to be 2021 and other than a moronic move by Miami, NO ONE wants to give up picks in the double draft

[r0drig0lac]

I do not think White's ceiling is limited (no one really knows in this moment), his shot and his intelligence (mostly in pnr) make him a guy who could at some point if all goes well, play on an all star level in the current league (illegal screens and impossibility of using physicality), a guard only needs this to be very good

[Mugen]

I don't want it to happen but Manu retiring makes the roster makeup a little more clear. If he does come back then you are looking at this as your two best lineups

Murray/White/Derozan/Gay/LMA

Mills/Manu/Beli/Bertans/Poertl

Honestly, that's a pretty damn good 10 man rotation except for the lack of a defensive SF. That leaves you with Pau as the odd man out and I'm not sure what you trade him for without the risk of squeezing White out of the rotation.

If Manu retires, then you can flip Pau for a Demarre Caroll type and still have a top 4 lineup in the West tbh.

[TD 21]

Spurs should not trade Murray, White or Lonnie for a win now piece.

The two 1st round picks in 19, future 1sts in 20, rights to Milutinov, Belinelli ( eventually), Bertans ( eventually), Forbes ( eventually), Pau, Patty are all fair game.

I would not trade 21 yr old DeJounte for Kemba.

Me either. I only wanted Walker because it made sense to go all in with Leonard. Without him, there's no feasible path to a championship for the foreseeable future and Aldridge and DeRozan should be able to provide a baseline of competitiveness as is.

Instead of being something like the 6th best team in the West, they'd probably be 3rd with Walker, but the end result would still be no chance of beating 1.



Pau Gasol to Detriot for Stanley Johnson & Jon Leuer.

Waive Brandon Paul.

The Pistons are desperate to make the playoffs, lacking flexibility, young assets and depth at his (coveted) position. As underwhelming as he's been, I can't see them salary dumping him.

Value wise, it would be worth a shot for the Spurs. But their 4 projected minute leaders already provide little 3-point shooting, something he can't help with (unless he drastically improves). Also, unless Ginobili retires, adding another rotational perimeter player means White gets squeezed.

[SpursDynasty85]

Nobody was saying to keep Harris but he is & was undoubtedly an asset in addition to picks to either keep or flip for a Jimmy Butler possibly. Without giving up Danny Green either. That was undoubtedly the better route than this roster full of guards.

Tobias and Gay seem a bit redundant. I thought it was the two lottery picks too. This deal is definitely better since we get at least 2 years of DeRozan.