White >>> Murray

[DAF86]

Just adressing the elephant in the room. And this isn't a knee jerk reaction. I started to feel the same last season. Murray's injury will end up being a blessing in disguise.

FWIW, I like Murray and I think he will be part of our future. He just isn't better than White.

[BD24]

White is better now. Murray probably has the higher ceiling though

[Kurgan]

Murray's got some length and reports indicated that he's improved his three point shot over the summer, right? I don't see why Murray can't shift over to filling in the role of 3&D guard on the team

[kaji157]

Just adressing the elephant in the room. And this isn't a knee jerk reaction. I started to feel the same last season. Murray's injury will end up being a blessing in disguise.

FWIW, I like Murray and I think he will be part of our future. He just isn't better than White.

I believe Murray is best suited to play alongside DD and LMA as he basically is a 3 and D PG.
White on the other hand may be a Manu type of player who might become a great player but needs the ball in his hands.

[r0drig0lac]

idk about this, but Walker will be better than both

[sasaint]

Just adressing the elephant in the room. And this isn't a knee jerk reaction. I started to feel the same last season. Murray's injury will end up being a blessing in disguise.

FWIW, I like Murray and I think he will be part of our future. He just isn't better than White.

Not as a PG.

[sasaint]

White is better now. Murray probably has the higher ceiling though

Not as a PG.

[Ditty]

If Murray can continue working on his shot and the ACL injury doesn’t impact his quickness then both will be good players in this league for a long time.

[sasaint]

I believe Murray is best suited to play alongside DD and LMA as he basically is a 3 and D PG.
White on the other hand may be a Manu type of player who might become a great player but needs the ball in his hands.

You have to be able to hit 3s to be a 3&D player.

[JakeCuenca]

To early to tell but White does allow Derozan to play more of the catch. Realisticly, derozan playing PG, White 3&D should provide better spacing for everyone without sacrificing space.

[SAGirl]

Hey Murray is injured and who knows how he will come back from his injury. He's younger and was still getting better.

But White is a very good player already and it was noticeable last season too. Could have easily played his rook year, he's going to be 25 very soon... Already has a mature game.

Anyways, just glad he's healthy now and hopefully he can stay that way. Great game.

[DAF86]

White is better now. Murray probably has the higher ceiling though

I doubt Murray will ever develop White's offensive skills and instincts, and on defense there isn't much of a difference.

[acoelho1]

People on this forum are a terrible judge of talent. White is a solid player but Murray will be a star. It’s not close.

[NASpurs]

I don’t man, Bertans sucks and I’m losing faith in your talent evaluation.

[RC_Drunkford]

Murray is 3 years younger. I doubt White was this good at 22

[Mr. Body]

Completely different players.

[Spurs fever]

I hope both of them get paid and stay on the team.

[DAF86]

I don’t man, Bertans sucks and I’m losing faith in your talent evaluation.

White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge. That will be the lineup fighting for our lives in the playoffs if Pop isn't totally washed up, tbh.

[BatManu20]

Totally different players and, as one poster mentioned, Murray is significantly younger.

[ducks]

Becky Should be coach next year not pop

[DAF86]

Duncan and Mills are also completely different players, yet one is clearly better than the other. What's this bullshit about "being different players"? :lol

Also, I'm comparing two PG's, it's not like I'm comparing a center to a PG. :lol

If Murray was healthy, White wouldn't have started not played as many minutes tonight.

[sasaint]

Duncan and Mills are also completely different players, yet one is clearly better than the other. What's this bullshit about "being different players"? :lol

Also, I'm comparing two PG's, it's not like I'm comparing a center to a PG. :lol

If Murray was healthy, White wouldn't have started not played as many minutes tonight.

More's the pity.

[Dejounte]

I'm glad we have both. Dejounte should be the starter when he returns and he still has all star potential. White will be our Manu leading the bench.

[SAGirl]

People on this forum are a terrible judge of talent. White is a solid player but Murray will be a star. It’s not close.
I expected a leap from Murray personally. We didn't get to see it bc he got injured and it's tough to judge with him not playing. Not a fair comparison to him.

I am enjoying watching White develop. Murray has a long road ahead recovering, getting his game back AND improving.

[SpursDynasty85]

Murray was looking darn good in the preseason. I like the idea of White, Murray, and DeRozan starting together.

[K...]

Murray was looking darn good in the preseason. I like the idea of White, Murray, and DeRozan starting together.

You forgot the Lonnie... Potentially our second best guard next year

[Robz4000]

White is better now. Murray probably has the higher ceiling though

This. White came in NBA ready, but if Murray figures it out he has legit star potential.

FWIW, Walker has superstar potential if his health pans out.

[slick'81]

Its a shame because murray had alot of hype going into this season.atleast d.white will get his chance to shine and with forbes playing better maybe we can finally get rid of fatty mills

[Hoops Czar]

If this isn't a knee jerk reaction, then what the hell is it? He played well in one game against a bad defense.

[KDKSpurs24]

This is dumb because we weren’t even able to see the results of Murray’s hard work in the offseason. Who knows how good he would be right now if he didn’t get injured.

[DAF86]

If this isn't a knee jerk reaction, then what the hell is it? He played well in one game against a bad defense.

I've been thinking the same since the end of last season. FWIW, White wasn't anything crazy on this game. He was just solid. A showing that can easily become the least we can expect from him.

[Genovaswitness]

This is dumb because we weren’t even able to see the results of Murray’s hard work in the offseason. Who knows how good he would be right now if he didn’t get injured.

part of being good is being healthy

[JeffDuncan]

Murray is much better. It isn't close.

[KDKSpurs24]

part of being good is being healthy
That probably sounded better in your head before you posted it.

You meant “Sometimes the best ability is availability” and that doesn’t apply for this subject.

Note: Players can be healthy and completely hurt their team. Doesn’t make them good. For example, Patty has been healthy but we sure have been saying if he wasn’t playing the team would be better.

[Genovaswitness]

That probably sounded better in your head before you posted it.

You meant “Sometimes the best ability is availability” and that doesn’t apply for this subject.

Note: Players can be healthy and completely hurt their team. Doesn’t make them good. For example, Patty has been healthy but we sure have been saying if he wasn’t playing the team would be better.


white: hits game-clinching shot agains the rockets and is actually playing

murray: sitting at home icing his knee making youtube videos with his instagram gf

[MaNu4Tres]

Both are really good in different aspects of the game. Both make a significant positive impact.

But yea, White is a better shooter, playmaker ..but that doesnt make someone overall better.

Its subjective, but Im just glad both make a significant impact and are not net negative players like Patty and Marco.

[SpursDynasty85]

You forgot the Lonnie... Potentially our second best guard next year

Not sold on Lonnie. Had a terrible summer league and the play he got hurt he double dribbled. He is farther away than both, imo. He does have potential though but needs to get and stay healthy.

[Chinook]

I go back and forth. I do think White can be better. Murray is overrated by many on this board. The stats say he's an elite defender, but I never really saw that. Not that it's a big deal, but the holes in his game than most of his pluses, though the rebounding would be an obvious improvement over what this squad is running most of the time. It's hard to really figure out who DeJounte is and how impactful he can be in terms of guards around the league. I want the team to keep him, even on a big-money deal. He seems like a great leader, and my projection of his ceiling has raised every year.

The obvious solution here is him and White playing together. Those two and Walker should eat up 90 percent of the guard minutes within the next couple of years. I don't see a reason to make more player-fan controversy here. Play them all together, and if that doesn't work, let the best man/men win. Stop picking favorites without reason.

[Rosewood]

But is he better than Mills?

[Arcadian]

You have to be able to hit 3s to be a 3&D player.

:lol This.

He's not a 3&D, he's...just a D.

[Flawless]

Why cant you degenerates just enjoy that we have two (three with lonnie) good young players in this roster, jesus spurs fans are spoiled.

[daslicer]

Just hoping White can be solid this year.

[ceperez]

Murray can impact the game defensively. White is however a better skilled player and a much better shooter. But lets wait for Murray to get healthy before making any real judgements. It's good to have two young players with upside.

[Fireball]

the way this team is composed I would take a 2nd team all defensive player over a true point guard right now ... White had one good and one bad game ... lets see how this unfolds over the newxt weeks

[dontouchmebwo]

Murray needs to come off the bench like his mentor Crawford and become the new Ginobili.

[TheGreatYacht]

Both suck. Bring Tony back asap

[Slippy]

This team hasnt had a true PG for a very long time. As a starter maybe not since AJ? Derrek White the floor general was impressive. Decision making and passing abilty, LaMarcus thinks hes gone to heaven as a big.

DJ you can come back off the bench. Defend and pad those rebounds.

[dbestpro]

The reality with White, Walker, Murray and Forbes, the guard spots are set for years to come. All future drafts need to focus on the SF and big positions.

[acoelho1]

I go back and forth. I do think White can be better. Murray is overrated by many on this board. The stats say he's an elite defender, but I never really saw that.

Thats because you have a bias towards Murray. White is no where near his class in terms of defense, speed and most importantly toughness. He also had a much improved jump shot in preseason. You are going to look super foolish next year when Murray comes back.

[picnroll]

Who cares. Fact is between Murray, White, Walker, even Forbes Spurs have great potential and versatility in young back court players. Problem is getting a better, ideally elite SF and a defensive big.

[John B]

White is vey good for sure, but he was taking away from Demar’s touches as a facilitator, where he was doing great. I don’t when Gay comes back if Demar slides back to guard, Dante 3 and White to backup PG where is is also badly needed.

[spurraider21]

I go back and forth. I do think White can be better. Murray is overrated by many on this board. The stats say he's an elite defender, but I never really saw that. Not that it's a big deal, but the holes in his game than most of his pluses, though the rebounding would be an obvious improvement over what this squad is running most of the time. It's hard to really figure out who DeJounte is and how impactful he can be in terms of guards around the league. I want the team to keep him, even on a big-money deal. He seems like a great leader, and my projection of his ceiling has raised every year.

The obvious solution here is him and White playing together. Those two and Walker should eat up 90 percent of the guard minutes within the next couple of years. I don't see a reason to make more player-fan controversy here. Play them all together, and if that doesn't work, let the best man/men win. Stop picking favorites without reason.
I had always assumed the plan had always been for them to share the floor

[John B]

I like Murray. But I’v been saying he’s the odd man out. And if we could package him with all his potentials to land a Davis or Giannis is dream pike (of course that could never happen). As much as I like White, he is badly needed coming off the bench like Manu, get the 2nd unit going. I think Demar thrives at combo guard, but needs Gay scoring to lessen the pressure. I was just concern if he negatively affects LMA’s game the previous loses. Too many tough decisions Pops need to make. GSG

[kaji157]

Clearly if White, Walker and Forbes can stablish themselves on the team, with Belinelli here, it makes no sense to keep Patty Mills.
I just don't get what would the Fo needs to accept it and what would it take to get rid of him.
We would have to give up a young asset or take back a equally bad contract (that fits us better)

[spurraider21]

Just adressing the elephant in the room. And this isn't a knee jerk reaction. I started to feel the same last season. Murray's injury will end up being a blessing in disguise.

FWIW, I like Murray and I think he will be part of our future. He just isn't better than White.
would have been more believable if you posted this after the miami game instead of hours after white puts up a really strong performance :lol

[Mirrornick]

that's like saying Kyle Anderson > DeMar DeRozan.

[Chinook]

Thats because you have a bias towards Murray. White is no where near his class in terms of defense, speed and most importantly toughness. He also had a much improved jump shot in preseason. You are going to look super foolish next year when Murray comes back.

SMH. I've been posting positive things about Murray for weeks, and you've been AWOL on my quotes list. Now I post one thing you can construe to be negative, and here you are with the "You're biased against Murray" talk. Then you did that thing where you truncate a post to make it seem like it was saying something other than what it meant. The overall quote was positive toward Murray and saying that he's worth keeping on a big-money deal. None of that will sound foolish if Murray comes back and plays well. No idea why you feel the need to create this narrative that I dislike or am somehow rooting against Murray. It's tiresome, though. The level of player-fanning for White, Forbes, Murray and even Walker is getting way too high given how little history those players have. No reason why any have to be disparaged to promote others.

[duncan2k5]

the crazy thing is ppl are saying a 22 year old murray is the odd man out because of his jumper (which no doubt will improve...ppl said the same thing about diaaron fox)...so they want to trade him for a player that could fit with DD and LMA.........WHY?????????? those two arent the future...one is a career cancer that chokes in the playoffs, the other just chokes in the playoffs in unbelievably historical manners...Murray has the heart and drive to be someone that makes HUGE plays and doesnt back down in the playoffs on top of his star potential...i would say trade the other guys ASAP whie they still have trade value and keep our dynamic youth

[Mr. Body]

This board has an inherent and laughable need to pit players against each other in foolishly unnecessary 'vs' battles. It's borderline mental at this point.

[ElNono]

Better than lefty

[weebo]

White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge. That will be the lineup fighting for our lives in the playoffs if Pop isn't totally washed up, tbh.

Well we're fucked.

[tmtcsc]

Thats because you have a bias towards Murray. White is no where near his class in terms of defense, speed and most importantly toughness. He also had a much improved jump shot in preseason. You are going to look super foolish next year when Murray comes back.

Bullshit. White is better than Murray and its not even close. Unless we're talking about Selfies and self-aggrandizing. Murray has him beat there.

[offset formation]

the crazy thing is ppl are saying a 22 year old murray is the odd man out because of his jumper (which no doubt will improve...ppl said the same thing about diaaron fox)...so they want to trade him for a player that could fit with DD and LMA.........WHY?????????? those two arent the future...one is a career cancer that chokes in the playoffs, the other just chokes in the playoffs in unbelievably historical manners...Murray has the heart and drive to be someone that makes HUGE plays and doesnt back down in the playoffs on top of his star potential...i would say trade the other guys ASAP whie they still have trade value and keep our dynamic youth

Your posts have grown even more butthurt and pathetic now that Kawhi is off the team. I had hopes that you would grow up once Kawhi was gone or player fan Toronto.

I'm Jack's dissatisfaction.

[DJR210]

Two different players with different strengths..

[picnroll]

This board has an inherent and laughable need to pit players against each other in foolishly unnecessary 'vs' battles. It's borderline mental at this point.

This a very strange and very long-standing pathology of SpursTalk posters. You don’t see this weird behavior of so many fans on other teams’s fan forums. Pathetic really.

[JeffDuncan]

Forbes should be coming off the bench at PG now, to spell White, so that the team has an actual point guard rotation. BTW

[DAF86]

Well we're fucked.

Yeah well, that goes without saying.

[acoelho1]

SMH.

You can shake your head all you want and I’m not picking and choosing or taking you out of context. You don’t like Murray no matter how hard you try to convince me that you are being impartial. As I said, if you think White is in Murray’s class, you can’t judge talent..period.

[DAF86]

Two different players with different strengths..

Playing the same position and fighting for minutes.

[Leetonidas]

the crazy thing is ppl are saying a 22 year old murray is the odd man out because of his jumper (which no doubt will improve...ppl said the same thing about diaaron fox)...so they want to trade him for a player that could fit with DD and LMA.........WHY?????????? those two arent the future...one is a career cancer that chokes in the playoffs, the other just chokes in the playoffs in unbelievably historical manners...Murray has the heart and drive to be someone that makes HUGE plays and doesnt back down in the playoffs on top of his star potential...i would say trade the other guys ASAP whie they still have trade value and keep our dynamic youth

Who is saying that?

[Pavlov]

I guess we're going to pretend they can't play at the same time and gin up the drama.

[JeffDuncan]

Since they're both point guards, the correct discussion is, who starts? You want to start Murray and bring White off the bench, next season, or vice versa?

If White continues to play well this season, has he earned the start next year?

[DJR210]

Playing the same position and fighting for minutes.

In this system you know Pop is going with the guy that plays better D..

2nd team All Defense >

I love Derrick White thus far, but IMO he's Cory Joseph 2.0.. Not having anything to do with skillset, just a backup guard that will end up on another team as a salary cap casualty

[DAF86]

In this system you know Pop is going with the guy that plays better D..

2nd team All Defense >

I love Derrick White thus far, but IMO he's Cory Joseph 2.0.. Not having anything to do with skillset, just a backup guard that will end up on another team as a salary cap casualty

Except that White is pretty solid on D too. And lol at that Corey Joseph comparisson. White is already 10 times more skilled than Joseph ever was. You ae sleeping on this kid, he's really good.

[timvp]

Doesn't matter. Chances are one of the two will become a legit player and one will bust out. If even one can become a legit star, that's great considering they were both late first round draft picks.

It also doesn't matter because you can play both at the same time. If injuries wouldn't have hit, it looks like Pop was planning on playing both Murray and White between 25 and 30 minutes per game -- and they would have played many minutes together.

'Tis true that Spurs fans are weirdly obsessed with pitting their own players against each other.

[Chinook]

You can shake your head all you want and I’m not picking and choosing or taking you out of context. You don’t like Murray no matter how hard you try to convince me that you are being impartial. As I said, if you think White is in Murray’s class, you can’t judge talent..period.

No one gives a shit what you think, bruh. You can believe whatever you want, but if you don't want to come off as a butt-hurt, disingenuous player-fan, you don't go all confirmation-biasy and ignore posts that don't fit your narrative. You're the only one who took what I said as an attack. That you cause you to reexamine how you're reading situations, instead of thinking you're the sole bastion of reason.

[BackHome]

Actually glad to see you changed your mind on White I told you he was going to be good.

I don’t see it as Murray vs White as I see both can see the floor together

[acoelho1]

No one gives a shit what you think, bruh.

Likewise but I like calling out bullshit when I read it. It’s ok that you don’t like Murray so get off your I praise him to shtick as some kind of validation of your asinine arguments.

[SAGirl]

Hate these kind of threads tho. It's not new for spurstalk. Going back to the old Tony vs Manu.
Why can't we enjoy having both guys in the team and appreciate both. More power to the Spurs with both guys.

[DJR210]

Except that White is pretty solid on D too. And lol at that Corey Joseph comparisson. White is already 10 times more skilled than Joseph ever was. You ae sleeping on this kid, he's really good.

Read it again. I clearly said it had nothing to do with his skill set. Just a comparison to role.

[SAGirl]

The obvious solution here is him and White playing together. Those two and Walker should eat up 90 percent of the guard minutes within the next couple of years. I don't see a reason to make more player-fan controversy here. Play them all together, and if that doesn't work, let the best man/men win. Stop picking favorites without reason.
Me neither. No need for playerfan controversy. Kind of hate that aspect about playerfanning.

[SAGirl]

Clearly if White, Walker and Forbes can stablish themselves on the team, with Belinelli here, it makes no sense to keep Patty Mills.
I just don't get what would the Fo needs to accept it and what would it take to get rid of him.
We would have to give up a young asset or take back a equally bad contract (that fits us better)
I think they won't get rid of Paddy just to get rid of his minutes. Pop likes him too much and he's not a cancerous player, rather a reported good locker room presence.

But hopefully as others are better than him, his minutes decrease and he takes the role Pop wanted for Tony (mentor and unguaranteed minutes). He makes too much money for that but that's a sunk cost by the FO. Perhaps he gets traded toward the end of his contract if he wants to play more minutes somewhere else or something, kinda like Tony too.

[sasaint]

The reality with White, Walker, Murray and Forbes, the guard spots are set for years to come. All future drafts need to focus on the SF and big positions.

Probably not gonna be able to keep all 4 for "years to come." Egos and money typically get in the way of keeping several young guys competing for minutes on the same career time-line.

[SAGirl]

This board has an inherent and laughable need to pit players against each other in foolishly unnecessary 'vs' battles. It's borderline mental at this point.
:tu

[Slippy]

This aint about pitting these guys against each other. Its about whats best for the team.

Its small sample size, yet its obvious , one guy plays the role of a PG to a tee. the other masquerades as one, is inconsistent from outside and is currently injured.

[gambit1990]

people are taking this thread the wrong way.

they can coexist but it's advantageous for each player to play the point.

didn't watch the rockets game so i've still yet to be able to gauge white... but if OP is right:
-murray won't be pleased with coming off the bench next year when he was handed the reins this year
-white won't be pleased with coming off the bench after potentially showing a season's worth of more promise than murray

[SAGirl]

This aint about pitting these guys against each other. Its about whats best for the team.

Its small sample size, yet its obvious , one guy plays the role of a PG to a tee. the other masquerades as one, is inconsistent from outside and is currently injured.
There's no point to the thread this season bc one guy is injured. I pointed this out b4.

White will have an entire season to build up his game this year and get experience and then next season is a different story but this year? It's pointless...

It may even become a moot point if Murray comes back next season and needs time to get a rhythm, etc.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Since Murray didn’t get to play this season we have no idea how he’d of done with this group and with his off-season work.

[DAF86]

I don’t man, Bertans sucks and I’m losing faith in your talent evaluation.

Have faith in me my brother. :hat

[gambit1990]

:wakeup

[gambit1990]

people are taking this thread the wrong way.

they can coexist but it's advantageous for each player to play the point.

didn't watch the rockets game so i've still yet to be able to gauge white... but if OP is right:
-murray won't be pleased with coming off the bench next year when he was handed the reins this year
-white won't be pleased with coming off the bench after potentially showing a season's worth of more promise than murray
we’ll see what happens next season...

[Mikeanaro]

-murray won't be pleased with coming off the bench next year when he was handed the reins this year
Who gives a fuck? Lots of bigger and better players went to the bench in NBA history, thats how the game works.

[GusT15]

people are taking this thread the wrong way.

they can coexist but it's advantageous for each player to play the point.

didn't watch the rockets game so i've still yet to be able to gauge white... but if OP is right:
-murray won't be pleased with coming off the bench next year when he was handed the reins this year
-white won't be pleased with coming off the bench after potentially showing a season's worth of more promise than murray

If an Olympic Gold medalist,NBA champion,future hall of famer like Manu Ginobili has no problem coming off the bench for Bowen and Green i'm somewhere between "take your head out off your asses" and "shut the fuck up and play ball" if either White or Murray has a problem with coming off the bench.

[MaNu4Tres]

Its really amazing to see people debating over such dumbass things.

"Who is going to play PG though, Derrick or Dejounte?"

" Trade Murray now, White is better."

Labeled positions DO NOT MATTER, skillsets dictate roles and both have very versatile skillsets to where both can do great things with the ball and both can do really good things off the ball. BOTH are not defensive liabilities and are elite on defense -- Murray elite guarding PGs, White elite guarding any wing.

Both can play together. Both can take turns bringing the ball up vs set D -- thats a small task anyway.

Offensive responsibilities will intertwine and change possession from possession because of their versatility. Some plays Derrick will initiate, some DJ. Both can do a lot of good things on or off the ball.
Within the halfcourt offense, and with ball movement off PnRs/DHOs/secondary playmaking/penetration off close outs, both will get their fair share of moments on/off the ball. Both will excel. Whoever is on, go to them more often as the game progresses as the initial playmaker.

Both can excel together. Stop the stupidity.

[RD2191]

I've always said I see DJ as more of a 6th man a la Jamal Crawford rather than a starter. White/Forbes is looking like our starting backcourt for the foreseeable future.

[RC_Drunkford]

this is the 2nd dumbest thread on this forum after all those Kawhi threads

[DAF86]

this is the 2nd dumbest thread on this forum after all those Kawhi threads

Why, you think Murray > White?

[dbestpro]

Never understand comparing players on the same team. You need to compare players against who they are going to play against.

[spurraider21]

white's ceiling is higher. he has a lot of brandon roy in him.

i'm glad we have potential to have one of the top defensive backcourts in the league.

[ulosturedge]

lol this forum. It's like the flavor of the day. Earlier in the season it was like fathead this fathead that. Crucifying the guy. Now he's the second coming. I always thought Derrik White had a lot of potential, and now he's starting to live up to it, but Murray is damn good also.

People only see what they want to see. Murray can get to wherever he wants to on the floor. His quickness was second to none. His defense was coming on strong, and rebounding is amazing for the point guard position. He's strong mentally. Does his outside shot need work? Ofcourse, but all players have strengths and weaknesses and these things can be developed.

They both can coexist and I think that's what was intended. DW can be an outright combo guard, but taking it further I don't think Pop is interested in classifications. He probably likes the versatility of changing up the Point on the fly once both players are at a point in development when they can coexist on the court.

Ofcourse, the acl injury is a setback for Murray, but just have to wait and see how he comes back from it. He's young so I think he can overcome.

[RC_Drunkford]

Why, you think Murray > White?

Comparing 2 players on the same team who compliment each other. Stupid. But you like stupid takes I know

[DAF86]

Comparing 2 players on the same team who compliment each other. Stupid. But you like stupid takes I know

Why would it be stupid to compare two young players that play the same position for the same team? :lol

I also agree that they could complement each other, that's why, in the OP, I said:


FWIW, I like Murray and I think he will be part of our future. He just isn't better than White.

But what's the point of posting something everybody will agree on? To have everybody sucking each other off? :lol

I just wanted to point out that one is better than the other and hopefully create some entertaining argumentation.

[duncan2k5]

white's ceiling is higher. he has a lot of brandon roy in him.

i'm glad we have potential to have one of the top defensive backcourts in the league.

No way white has a higher ceiling... U don't think when Murray reaches White's age, he will be AT LEAST as good? The only reason we know white is this good is because he actually is playing... Who knows how great Murray would have been this year?

[BillMc]

I see it as this. Nobody is saying Murray isn't valuable or can't play with White. But Murray and White together with the starting unit of LMA and DeMar isn't a good fit. A 3 point specialist is needed and unless Murray's improved, he's going to have a difficult time beating out Forbes. Not because Forbes is better, but because he's a better fit for the SL and its needs and limitations.

Which means Murray might be better served on the bench. (A bench of Murray and Walker would be brutally athletic!)

And if Murray is a bench player that will affect the salary negotiations. People had been talking about Murray being a potential near MAX salary player, and that with this injury, the Spurs could extend him next year for a less but still substantial amount. And there is a real question if they'll do that, make the investment, if he's going to end up on the bench. Dollars and his role are potential hiccups. And they are valid things to discuss. What is Murray going to be worth to this team if he's not "the Answer" at PG? And having somewhat been annotated as Tony's replacement and the next great Spur, how will he react if White does indeed supersede him? And if Forbes has to start because LMA and DeMar can't shoot 3s, will he be ok with it?

Valid questions.

[spurraider21]

No way white has a higher ceiling... U don't think when Murray reaches White's age, he will be AT LEAST as good? The only reason we know white is this good is because he actually is playing... Who knows how great Murray would have been this year?
murray isn't a good enough scorer

[TDMVPDPOY]

Why, you think Murray > White?

He a enrique fan....or player fan..fck him

murray is a draft busts

[FkLA]

People only see what they want to see. Murray can get to wherever he wants to on the floor. His quickness was second to none.

When did this happen? :lol

[ulosturedge]

When did this happen? :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l4tzYXJgiI

Didn't say he was a great finisher, but he was agile and quick.

[FkLA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l4tzYXJgiI

Didn't say he was a great finisher, but he was agile and quick.

Yeah, no. He can't get to wherever he wants on the floor and his quickness is second to many players. You'd think he was a prime Tony Parker with the way you described him. His biggest strength is his length not his quickness. In those highlights he didn't even blow by defenders, most of them were still in front of him he just rose over them with his length for his little floater/push shot.

[Mikeanaro]

That length thing is so overrated, I still remember when OKC was drooling over Sefolosha, selling him like the best defender ever because he had a 9 foot wingspan.
What happened to him?

[ulosturedge]

Yeah, no. He can't get to wherever he wants on the floor and his quickness is second to many players. You'd think he was a prime Tony Parker with the way you described him. His biggest strength is his length not his quickness. In those highlights he didn't even blow by defenders, most of them were still in front of him he just rose over them with his length for his little floater/push shot.

Probably the wrong term. How about slippery, shifty? Wouldn't think you would be a starting point guard in the NBA or make 2nd team all nba defense if you were slow. Whole point of the post is the kid can play. Let's move on..

[BackHome]

People thought White sucked and now he is balling and I am cool with that think he solidifies the PG position for the next several years. So going into next year I think let’s leave it up to who is the best player and who is going to get us the most wins.

[daslicer]

Just enjoy watching these guys develop. Spurs have 3 promising young guards in White,Murray,Walker. If 2 out of the 3 turn out to be good then the Spurs have done a great job.

[SpursDynasty85]

When did this happen? :lol

I was thinking the same thing. lol.

[palangi]

I actually think white could be the second coming of Ginobili of the bench.
He would donate the second units. Run ours. Still play with Murray at the same time in many spurts

[duncan2k5]

murray isn't a good enough scorer

We would have said the same about white had he not played this season... Last year ppl were absolutely thrashing him on this board when he played

[DAF86]

We would have said the same about white had he not played this season... Last year ppl were absolutely thrashing him on this board when he played

Stop trying to sell fake news, fucking troll. :lol

[duncan2k5]

Stop trying to sell fake news, fucking troll. :lol

So no one on here last year was saying white was trash?

[SpursDynasty85]

So no one on here last year was saying white was trash?

I recall most wanting him to come in and play more over Forbes, Mills, and Murray. I was fine with him staying in the G league since bringing in a new pg in the middle of the season was not smart. Derrick White's stats in G league are very impressive. Not to mention they won the whole championship last year. He also killed it in this past Summer League.

Murray's ceiling may be higher but he is only like 40% his potential while White is probably around 80%. That's why White is currently better than Murray.

[acoelho1]

Murray is already an elite defensive player. You can't discount that and look at his on/off numbers from last year. He will only get better offensively and 2 things to think about for next year. One, he's been sitting in on strategy sessions with the coaching staff, which will only improve is BBIQ and more importantly, his toughness, which is an undervalued attribute and he has it in spades.

[duncan2150]

So no one on here last year was saying white was trash?

Imo if you look at his draft topic on ST , a lot of people did not like the pick and took shots on the FO.

Really nice pick

[DAF86]

So no one on here last year was saying white was trash?

Here's what folks, that were actually paying attention, said last season


Really do like White. Only good thing about Danny leaving would be being able to see what Derrick could do next to Murray.


Im a fan of white tbh and agree with you. I hate Pops I'm not gonna play rookies schtick


I don’t understand why he’s not playing, last Time he played he was decent against GS and then disappears ....


Murray, Forbes and Tony getting minutes over this guy. :lol


In 2018..

Better than Manu.

Better than Tony.

Better than Patty.

Better than Bryn.

Better than Paul.

[duncan2k5]

Here's what folks, that were actually paying attention, said last season

But I can show u a million others where ppl were saying different... Why deny it��? There were tons of ppl that were saying he was trash last year

[DAF86]

But I can show u a million others where ppl were saying different... Why deny it��? There were tons of ppl that were saying he was trash last year

The ratio of posts "trashing" White to posts saying he should have played must be like 1 to 10.

[duncan2k5]

The ratio of posts "trashing" White to posts saying he should have played must be like 1 to 10.

Disagree... I remember saying he should be playing over Forbes and patty, and ppl thrashed me for it... There were a lot of ppl that were not high on him based on how poorly he played when he actually did play... At least half

[DAF86]

Disagree... I remember saying he should be playing over Forbes and patty, and ppl thrashed me for it... There were a lot of ppl that were not high on him based on how poorly he played when he actually did play... At least half

:lol Sure thing, troll.

[cd98]

White is definitely better than last year's Murray. We just don't know how good this year's Murray would have been. Sucks that this is the case.

[RC_Drunkford]

Murray's per 36 numbers are actually starting caliber tbh. If he improves enough to put them up in 28-30 minutes he'll be very serviceable. The one advantage that White got over him is his chemistry with LaMarcus. I think that could really get him the starting job. Or they both start together.

[Big Empty]

If Walker & Murray pan out watch out.

[Degoat]

I think they both start, Murray, White, DeMar, Rudy, LA are the starters and
i think walker can be that explosive 6th man

[cutewizard]

:bobo

[cd021]

I think they both start, Murray, White, DeMar, Rudy, LA are the starters and
i think walker can be that explosive 6th man

That would make the bench Mills, Forbes, Beli, Bertans and Poeltl. That's isn't exactly ideal.

I think Forbes continues to start with White playing a big role off the bench (something like 27 mpg) and apart of closing lineups that are identical to the one you mention.

[cd021]

Murray's per 36 numbers are actually starting caliber tbh. If he improves enough to put them up in 28-30 minutes he'll be very serviceable. The one advantage that White got over him is his chemistry with LaMarcus. I think that could really get him the starting job. Or they both start together.
Think Murray continues to start with White playing 6th man level minutes next season and closing games together.


If Walker & Murray pan out watch out.

Don't know how impactful either will be next season with Walker likely only beginning to get NBA minutes and Murray working his way back from a serious injury (the first year back is usually not nearly as productive as the second year).

Important that the Spurs nab a wing prospect in this draft for the long term because I think Golden State may be on it's last legs if KD leaves, Draymond continues to deteriorate and they continue to botch their picks with out finding replacement's for Iggy and Livingston.

[spurraider21]

walker isn't close imo

murray/white should be starters and hopefully walker is able to be a 6th man type

[BackHome]

Shit a lot of posters were saying he sucked at beginning of season much less when he was drafted.

But it’s OK to be wrong it’s not like any of us are NBA experts I hated on Forbes hard but he has proven he is a NBA player. Though I wish he could take Mills place and just be used as a spark plug aka instant offense when needed.

[Larry O]

I think they both start, Murray, White, DeMar, Rudy, LA are the starters and
i think walker can be that explosive 6th man

The BIG quesion though is will PATFO persue a 3 & D wing in the off season either through FA, trade or the draft as a starter for next season? If this happens, then what will happen to DW4 next season? Come off the bench then? If so, then we will definitely have a solid 2nd unit! But another question will be: Will Forbes or Beli still be there? I'm sure Fifty Mills will be there. GSG!!!

[Harry Callahan]

It's more interesting that the Mavies have already given up on Dennis Smith JR in his second year - making him available for trade. A point guard - 9th pick in the 2017 draft. When was White taken in the same draft - 28th?

[Larry O]

It's more interesting that the Mavies have already given up on Dennis Smith JR in his second year - making him available for trade. A point guard - 9th pick in the 2017 draft. When was White taken in the same draft - 28th?

I find it amazing that they still would like to trade Smith, Jr, especially since that JJ Barea went down with that Achilles tear recently... Hmm.... are they that stacked with talented PG's to go ahead & trade him or is Cuban puro loco?

[MaNu4Tres]

walker isn't close imo

murray/white should be starters and hopefully walker is able to be a 6th man type

Walker isnt close?

What are your expectations?

He could help right now in a simplified offensive 3&D role, while defending 1-3 positions.

If youre expecting him to be another DeMar on offense, then yeah hes not close to that.

Context is everything.

[spurraider21]

Walker isnt close?

What are your expectations?

He could help right now in a simplified offensive 3&D role, while defending 1-3 positions.

If youre expecting him to be another DeMar on offense, then yeah hes not close to that.

Context is everything.
he's shooting 31% from deep in the g-league after shooting about 34.5% with the shorter college 3pt line. looks aren't going to get any easier in the big leagues. and there isn't much evidence that he's a plus defender right now. so to say he's ready for a 3&D role in the NBA makes no sense tbh. from the gleague games i've seen, his halfcourt game seems to be limited to pull-up 2 point jump shots off the dribble.

3&d would probably be the worst use for lonnie given his athletic ability. at this point he needs to work on his handles and learn to get to and finish at the rim consistently.

[exstatic]

It's more interesting that the Mavies have already given up on Dennis Smith JR in his second year - making him available for trade. A point guard - 9th pick in the 2017 draft. When was White taken in the same draft - 28th?

DSJ's issues aren't court related. He's being a little bitch, because Luka is more of a franchise player, and he can't handle being the #2 guy.

[exstatic]

I find it amazing that they still would like to trade Smith, Jr, especially since that JJ Barea went down with that Achilles tear recently... Hmm.... are they that stacked with talented PG's to go ahead & trade him or is Cuban puro loco?

Smith is being a little bitch about Luka. He's (apparently) causing enough problems that they've shut him down to explore trades.

[MaNu4Tres]

he's shooting 31% from deep in the g-league after shooting about 34.5% with the shorter college 3pt line. looks aren't going to get any easier in the big leagues. and there isn't much evidence that he's a plus defender right now. so to say he's ready for a 3&D role in the NBA makes no sense tbh. from the gleague games i've seen, his halfcourt game seems to be limited to pull-up 2 point jump shots off the dribble.

3&d would probably be the worst use for lonnie given his athletic ability. at this point he needs to work on his handles and learn to get to and finish at the rim consistently.

If Dejounte can handle an off ball role last season, Lonnie can.

Lonnie is ahead of where Dejounte was on offense.

If he were with another franchise that had a role open, he would be able to fill it. Especially when you look around and see other rookies with less talent contributing.

And in Austin, his responsibilities widen substantially -- which can make him look worse or less efficient than he would be in a defined and simplified role.

[BackHome]

I can not remember one person who sucked in G League being called up and being successful in the NBA? Don’t get me wrong still like him but it’s going to take longer to develop much longer then White.

[MaNu4Tres]

I can not remember one person who sucked in G League being being called up and being successful in the NBA? Don’t get me wrong still like him but it’s going to take longer to develop much longer then White.

Sorry you can't see context in situations. Just keep looking at stats.

I.E In Dejountes rookie season, he actually played well in a simplified role and was efficient with his opportunities. Had great games. Then the following summer, when asked to be the bell cow, he was terrible when he was asked to be the guy. So bad that Spurs didnt want it to derail his confidence, so they sat him the remainder of SL


You have to understand the context of the different situations to see it.

[spurraider21]

If Dejounte can handle an off ball role last season, Lonnie can.

Lonnie is ahead of where Dejounte was on offense.

If he were with another franchise that had a role open, he would be able to fill it. Especially when you look around and see other rookies with less talent contributing.

And in Austin, his responsibilities widen substantially -- which can make him look worse or less efficient than he would be in a defined and simplified role.
i mean if you say so

[Larry O]

Smith is being a little bitch about Luka. He's (apparently) causing enough problems that they've shut him down to explore trades.

Thanks for the insight, Extatic! For a moment there I thought that Crazy Cuban was up to his ol' self again. This guy doesn't waste time getting rid of someone who may cause problems for the Mavs! So, Jr. wants the spot light, eh? Well, it sounds like he may have to have his own show somewhere else then,cause it looks like Luka is Legend in Big D. Hope it doesn't come back to haunt them tho.

[objective]

If Dejounte can handle an off ball role last season, Lonnie can.

Lonnie is ahead of where Dejounte was on offense.

If he were with another franchise that had a role open, he would be able to fill it. Especially when you look around and see other rookies with less talent contributing.

And in Austin, his responsibilities widen substantially -- which can make him look worse or less efficient than he would be in a defined and simplified role.

I generally agree, Walker could be fine in a limited role

Cunningham and Pondexter have limited roles and they aren't even doing those particularly well

Walker can get some use out of he g-league, but he isn't going to learn to play a role next to stars in the g-league. There's too much temptation to just go get his every time. Look at White: he had a terrible time adjusting to being the point guard. In the g-league, he got everything. But with SA he had to adjust to not having the ball or every look.

White had such a green light in the g-league that he had a game where he was 5-15 from three. Only one player in Spurs history has ever attempted that many, and was Jaren Jackson in like 2000. A game of an unchallenged White just chucking non stop was probably not more useful than a real NBA game having a SG demand to bring the ball up half the possessions, a Gay decide he's point guard after a rebound, a Mills asking to bring it up, and Aldridge ready to pout because the other guys aren't getting it to him.

A limited role of cutting and spotting up with veterans telling him where to go and what to do might be better for him than just running around like a chicken in the g-league waiting to do his 1-on-1 hero pull ups.

Kawhi's offense was trash as a rookie compared to now. He just scored in transition and cuts and hanging out in the corners, assisted in 97.6% of his three point makes, and shot like garbage from 3 feet on out to the three point line. Wasn't a go to scorer, no mid-range, no post, no passing, no dribbling, just dunks, layups and threes. He didn't have to go go the g-league to improve his offense or fill a limited role. It should be obvious that Walker isn't the defender Kawhi was as a rookie, and I don't think he could fulfill a rookie Kawhi role of first year starter. But I think he could do okay as a hustle player who can score decently when set up by others instead of crossover pull-ups against g-league scrubs.

[spursistan]

Bump..

Sophomore White is clearly superior to sophomore Murray..

Derrick versatility and BB IQ is so off the charts..He could be the closest thing this team will have to another Manu Ginobili.

For the sake of comparison, Murray being 2 years younger is basically the only thing going for him here..I just hope that ACL injury doesn't nullify this advantage...

[timtonymanu]

:tu

[timtonymanu]

SpurPadre lurking. This should be good

[SpurPadre]

SpurPadre lurking. This should be good

I'm good. I hope he keeps this up on both ends. And I'm convinced that no one outside of Spurstalk believes White is better than Murray and has some perspective, tbh.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Murray just doesn't have the offensive game or IQ to compete with white.

[timtonymanu]

I'm good. I hope he keeps this up on both ends. And I'm convinced that no one outside of Spurstalk believes White is better than Murray and has some perspective, tbh.

Did you see spursistan use the Manu comparisons? Must have your bitter ass fuming.

[timtonymanu]

Perspective is saying Mills is better than Derrick White. :lmao

[NASpurs]

I love Murray but the dude is all hype and can’t hold White’s jock strap on the offensive side of the court while Derrick can be dominant on both sides.

Continue to improve Dejounte, you’re still young.

[8sy21vd]

I prefer Derrick but DJ has huge upside. I hope both develop into All Stars!:flag:

[duncan2150]

We need Them together.

[timtonymanu]

I love Murray but the dude is all hype and can’t hold White’s jock strap on the offensive side of the court while Derrick can be dominant on both sides.

Continue to improve Dejounte, you’re still young.

Put 2019 White on last year's team and they get 50 wins and a higher seed easily. I want both guys to succeed too, but we know Padre is secretly bitter about White constantly making him look stupid

[slick'81]

White is fckn insane right now

[skin27]

I'm good. I hope he keeps this up on both ends. And I'm convinced that no one outside of Spurstalk believes White is better than Murray and has some perspective, tbh.

white is clearly a better player than Murray.

[GusT15]

I'm good. I hope he keeps this up on both ends. And I'm convinced that no one outside of Spurstalk believes White is better than Murray and has some perspective, tbh.

You'd be surprised.
People have been talking about him for awhile know.
Not in comparison to Murray,obviously,cause,since they are not Spursfans they don't need to take sides against Spurs guards.That's Spurstalk tradition.
But for his value in general,many forums have taken notice.

[SpurPadre]

Put 2019 White on last year's team and they get 50 wins and a higher seed easily. I want both guys to succeed too, but we know Padre is secretly bitter about White constantly making him look stupid

I've never said White is a scrub, son. You're manipulating the narrative. I hope they're both All Stars. It's one thing to think White is better, using a cogent argument, but to completely throw Murray under the bus, who is injured, is ridiculous...and showing a lack of perspective.

[look_at_g_shred]

Back to back 6 block games?

[timtonymanu]

I've never said White is a scrub, son. You're manipulating the narrative. I hope they're both All Stars. It's one thing to think White is better, using a cogent argument, but to completely throw Murray under the bus, who is injured, is ridiculous...and showing a lack of perspective.

No that’s you that is discrediting White at any opportunity. Mills > White is one of your stupid takes. But keep pretending like you said otherwise

[look_at_g_shred]

I’m just glad they are both on the spurs. I don’t understand the need to argue who’s better..I’m just excited at the fact next year we could have an elite defensive backcourt.

[J_Paco]

Why are Spurs fans so obsessed with one guard being "better" than the other? Who gives a shit?

If one, two or all three guard prospects pan out that is a boon to Pop, the organization and this fanbase. It also means that DeRozan's, the new ST whipping boy now that Tony's in Charlotte, time in SA will be that shorter.

I don't know, as a fan of a team in transition I'd want as many quality prospects and picks as possible.

[SpurPadre]

White is fckn insane right now

Insane is Admiral, TD, Manu and TP in their prime...along with pre-sex change Leonard. White's been solid-to very good and without him we're fucked. But INSANE? We've got to relax and let this kid keep improving.

[timtonymanu]

He is Manu compared to the lump of shit we have as guards outside of DeRozan, tbh.


White is too inconsistent. He has promise and is better for the long haul but Mills' offense is better and than White's defense, IMO. But I'll concede that White is better than Mills. I still rather give minutes to Mills than Forbes.


He struggles to reach double digit scoring in a league full of guards with heavy firepower. He's solid but Murray is more gifted and he was showing progress on his shooting before going down. They have to start Murray next season as our PG with White taking on the Manu super sub role.

But I need perspective lol

[SpurPadre]

Why are Spurs fans so obsessed with one guard being "better" than the other? Who gives a shit?

If one, two or all three guard prospects pan out that is a boon to Pop, the organization and this fanbase. It also means that DeRozan's, the new ST whipping boy now that Tony's in Charlotte, time in SA will be that shorter.

I don't know, as a fan of a team in transition I'd want as many quality prospects and picks as possible.

While I think Murray is better, I'm not trying to hate on White at all. I just think the overhype is strong on the kid here. The moment he gets on a bad slump next year while Murray happens to be beasting, and they'll turn on him. That's my main issue with this shit. They're both good. Let's hope they continue to grow.

[FkLA]

OP needs to add a couple more >s, tbh.

trade instagram baller

[FkLA]

While I think Murray is better, I'm not trying to hate on White at all. I just think the overhype is strong on the kid here. The moment he gets on a bad slump next year while Murray happens to be beasting, and they'll turn on him. That's my main issue with this shit. They're both good. Let's hope they continue to grow.

:lmao

wtf has Murray done that suggests he's better?

[SpurPadre]

But I need perspective lol

Yeah, reading comprehension will tell you I wasn't saying Mills is a better overall player than White. Dude, I thought we were cool. You slipping bruh.

[SpurPadre]

:lmao

wtf has Murray done that suggests he's better?

He did enough for Pop to name him starting PG over White. Nuff said.

[timtonymanu]

:lmao

wtf has Murray done that suggests he's better?

:cry he developed a jumpshot. Padre says he doesn't hate on White but he attacks any poster who hypes up White (most of those posts don't mention Murray in the same sentence either).

[timtonymanu]

He did enough for Pop to name him starting PG over White. Nuff said.

Yeah because we know Pop plays rookies in their first year most of the time. :rolleyes. Wasn't Murray benchwarming for washed up Parker and shitty Mills his first year too?

[jjktkk]

Why are Spurs fans so obsessed with one guard being "better" than the other? Who gives a shit?




Makes no sense imo.

[DPG21920]

OP needs to add a couple more >s, tbh.

trade instagram baller


This is so dumb no offense. Why trade him when you can have both? White is older than Murray - he should be more advanced.

But Murray has shown enough flashes that people should be excited SA has both to play together. Plus, Murray makes no money, you would get nothing for him that would be worth trading him for.

Stop being silly.

[SpurPadre]

No that’s you that is discrediting White at any opportunity. Mills > White is one of your stupid takes. But keep pretending like you said otherwise

Don't be a retard. I said Mills' offense is better than White's defense. I wasn't making an overall point.

[SouthTexasRancher]

For Point Guard, I'd say Derrick White is superior to everyone on our roster. I also see Dejounte Murray with a whole bunch of upside and we need his athleticism. I can see DW and DJ working together in the back court. DJ has an uncanny ability on defense and rebounding and can see him as the #2 guard. Chip will need to work with him on certain shots and shot selection but, I really think he is in the starting back court with DW. With DD, Bryn and Marco we are pretty heavy at the Shooting Guard position. And we still need a true, hard nosed, young, quick with length, athletic 3 and 'D' to go with Rudy Gay.

[DPG21920]

:lmao

wtf has Murray done that suggests he's better?


I mean, he did make all nba defensive team. It was not some all star game fan vote either.

[BatManu20]

1103496226203410432

[SpurPadre]

:cry he developed a jumpshot. Padre says he doesn't hate on White but he attacks any poster who hypes up White (most of those posts don't mention Murray in the same sentence either).

Look at the title of this thread. It's all about putting White against Murray. I'm simply defending the man who was unfortunate to get injured while pointing out the overhype.

[FkLA]

Why are Spurs fans so obsessed with one guard being "better" than the other? Who gives a shit?

Murray is a threat to White's development. And I don't mean that he's a threat to be the better player, I mean that it's very possible that White's role gets diminished and the starting PG spot gets gifted back to Murray no matter how well White finishes the season. Fuck that. White is just plain better and he is a joy to watch...why would any spurfan want some low IQ instagram baller instead?

[RodNIc91]

Is White vs Murray the new Tony vs Manu?

[FkLA]

I mean, he did make all nba defensive team. It was not some all star game fan vote either.

White is a better defender than Murray.

[SpurPadre]

For Point Guard, I'd say Derrick White is superior to everyone on our roster. I also see Dejounte Murray with a whole bunch of upside and we need his athleticism. I can see DW and DJ working together in the back court. DJ has an uncanny ability on defense and rebounding and can see him as the #2 guard. Chip will need to work with him on certain shots and shot selection but, I really think he is in the starting back court with DW. With DD, Bryn and Marco we are pretty heavy at the Shooting Guard position. And we still need a true, hard nosed, young, quick with length, athletic 3 and 'D' to go with Rudy Gay.

DeRozan isn't going anywhere and he will be the starting two guard whether we like it or not. That means only one of Murray or White will be a starter. I highly doubt Pop will strip Murray of the starter's title he gave him before he went down. But White will be the Manu supersub role.

[timtonymanu]

Look at the title of this thread. It's all about putting White against Murray. I'm simply defending the man who was unfortunate to get injured while pointing out the overhype.

I honestly don't care about the White >> Murray, Murray >> White debates on here. Keep both. It's better than playing Mills/Forbes together another fucking year. But give credit where it's due. Even just someone saying White is playing insane, you're already there to say "well he's not the big 3 or nephew so let's not go there yet." Sounds like you just like discrediting.

[DPG21920]

White is a better defender than Murray.

Maybe. But you are asking what Murray has done. I told you

[SpurPadre]

Is White vs Murray the new Tony vs Manu?

That's what it looks like. Stupid really. I think Murray is better but I'm not doing it at the expense of disparaging the other, which is what the Manu vs. TP debate deteriorated to.

[timtonymanu]

DeRozan isn't going anywhere and he will be the starting two guard whether we like it or not. That means only one of Murray or White will be a starter. I highly doubt Pop will strip Murray of the starter's title he gave him before he went down. But White will be the Manu supersub role.

See now Derozan is the real problem for me. He's a horrible fit next to Derrick. Maybe he fits better next to Murray, but White has to start too. That's something Spurs have to figure out. But you're right, he isn't going anywhere unfortunately.

[GusT15]

White is a better defender than Murray.

White is a better on ball defender,Murray is a better passing lane defender,they make an amazing defensive backcourt.

Just let Chip develop DJ's jumpshot,and the Spurs look great at the 1-2.

[FkLA]

Maybe. But you are asking what Murray has done. I told you

I asked what he has done to make someone think he is better than White. Other than rebounding there's literally nothing Murray is better at.

[SpurPadre]

I honestly don't care about the White >> Murray, Murray >> White debates on here. Keep both. It's better than playing Mills/Forbes together another fucking year. But give credit where it's due. Even just someone saying White is playing insane, you're already there to say "well he's not the big 3 or nephew so let's not go there yet." Sounds like you just like discrediting.

18, 6 and 9 against a bottom-feeder is insane? I just think that's a lowering of standards or a very liberal interpretation of an eye-popping basketball performance. It was a great outing, especially considering the intangibles but INSANE?

[DPG21920]

I asked what he has done to make someone think he is better than White. Other than rebounding there's literally nothing Murray is better at.

He made all nba defensive team already and he’s 2 years younger. Imagine White being 2 years younger and doing what he’s doing today. That’s what makes people like Murray.

[timtonymanu]

18, 6 and 9 against a bottom-feeder is insane? I just think that's a lowering of standards or a very liberal interpretation of an eye-popping basketball performance. It was a great outing, especially considering the intangibles but INSANE?

:lol thinking this one game is the only indication for how consistent he's been playing the entire season. Spurs are already in the lottery this year without White. He pretty much saved them from missing the playoffs.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Could be but, right now Pop is playing DD at the Three. I think he is better suited as a #2. I am glad it is Pop's problem to sort out who starts and who comes off the bench next season.....assuming DJ is fully healed with no complications. We're going to have a full back court for sure because I don't see Pop trading Patty, Bryn, Marco, DW and/or DJ unless it is a way to use with other players (?) and get a pretty good draft pick or in some kind of trade for the 3 and 'D' I mentioned above. It's all speculation for now. I just hope we keep improving for the playoffs. .

[timtonymanu]

Could be but, right now Pop is playing DD at the Three. I think he is better suited as a #2. I am glad it is Pop's problem to sort out who starts and who comes off the bench next season.....assuming DJ is fully healed with no complications. We're going to have a full back court for sure because I don't see Pop trading Patty, Bryn, Marco, DW and/ot DJ unless it is a way to use with other players (?) and get a pretty good draft pick or in some kind of trade for the 3 and 'D' I mentioned above. It's all speculation for now. I just hope we keep improving for the playoffs. .

I hate to move Demar to the bench with that contract, but it probably has to be done. Start Murray/White. Move Forbes/Demar to the bench. Trade Mills and Belinelli.

[SpurPadre]

See now Derozan is the real problem for me. He's a horrible fit next to Derrick. Maybe he fits better next to Murray, but White has to start too. That's something Spurs have to figure out. But you're right, he isn't going anywhere unfortunately.

The only way there's even a chance DeRozan leaves is if we get curbstomped in the playoffs with him stinking it up each game...and then we would need Toronto to lose and not even get out of the ECF which will cause Faggot to cry to his uncle and bolt to LA. That would result in an opening for DeMar to beg Toronto to take him back. Pretty unlikely scenario but that's the only way he leaves San Antonio, tbh.

[FkLA]

White is a better on ball defender,Murray is a better passing lane defender,they make an amazing defensive backcourt.

Just let Chip develop DJ's jumpshot,and the Spurs look great at the 1-2.

Really? He never stood out to me in that way. I don't ever remember thinking "damn he's really disrupting passing lanes". That's something I would say about nephew during his time here but not Murray. His rebounding is what has always stood out, and I think that that's what ultimately ended up giving him this undeserved reputation as some sort of defensive stopper.

White is better on-ball, better team/help defender. It's not even close, imo.

[ZeusWillJudge]

White makes good decisions, he has great patience in the paint, and can change speeds. He has a leg up on Murray in all three of those. And just as a little bonus, White's EFG% is .535, compared to DJ's .451 last year. White's not perfect, and Murray isn't a scrub. But White is now a better PG than Murray was. And he's done it for long enough that it's not a fluke.

I posted in another thread - White's DRtg since the ASB is 99 (before tonight). That's hard to do on a team that plays poor defense. Murray is a legitimately good defender. So is Aldridge. The three of them are going to be a force to be reckoned with next year. But White is the PG. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

[SouthTexasRancher]

I hate to move Demar to the bench with that contract, but it probably has to be done. Start Murray/White. Move Forbes/Demar to the bench. Trade Mills and Belinelli.

I could probably live with DD coming off the bench since he'll still get his minutes. My only problem is if he went into full meltdown depressed mode. :toast

[SpurPadre]

:lol thinking this one game is the only indication for how consistent he's been playing the entire season. Spurs are already in the lottery this year without White. He pretty much saved them from missing the playoffs.

Consistent isn't the same as "Insane" and while his D has been consistent, his offense hasn't...but I admit it is growing, much to my pleasant surprise. And if you want to play this game, what would happen with a full season of White and we're missing LMA. Wouldn't we be a lottery team then too?

[FkLA]

He made all nba defensive team already and he’s 2 years younger. Imagine White being 2 years younger and doing what he’s doing today. That’s what makes people like Murray.

Ok, but none of that makes him better than White. It's fine to like Murray but he's not better.

[GusT15]

Really? He never stood out to me in that way. I don't ever remember thinking "damn he's really disrupting passing lanes". That's something I would say about nephew during his time here but not Murray. His rebounding is what has always stood out, and I think that that's what ultimately ended up giving him this undeserved reputation as some sort of defensive stopper.

White is better on-ball, better team/help defender. It's not even close, imo.

Yep,nothing special at disrupting passing lanes.You're absolutely right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-mUatZk6DI

I'm not even gonna link you last years highlights,where he averaged 1.2 steals in 21 mins.Those are way too long.

[MaNu4Tres]

Murray is a threat to White's development. And I don't mean that he's a threat to be the better player, I mean that it's very possible that White's role gets diminished and the starting PG spot gets gifted back to Murray no matter how well White finishes the season. Fuck that. White is just plain better and he is a joy to watch...why would any spurfan want some low IQ instagram baller instead?

Both.

Will.

Play.

Together.

A LOT.

How can you not see that?

[DPG21920]

Ok, but none of that makes him better than White. It's fine to like Murray but he's not better.

Sure, he’s not better than White who’s 2 years older - what is your point?

[DPG21920]

FkLA is just in I want to argue mode. He will wake up hungover tomorrow and apologize :lol

[ulosturedge]

They are both going to be good as long as they play to their strengths. White brings things to the game that Dejounte doesn't and vice versa.

And yes this will be the new Tony vs Manu when all is said and done.

[FkLA]

Sure, he’s not better than White who’s 2 years older - what is your point?

Dude, you're the one that quoted me after I scoffed at the suggestion that Murray is better. :lol

[BackHome]

That's what it looks like. Stupid really. I think Murray is better but I'm not doing it at the expense of disparaging the other, which is what the Manu vs. TP debate deteriorated to.

+ 1

[BackHome]

I’ll take Murray and White over Forbes and Mills any day and all day.

[KDKSpurs24]

Yep,nothing special at disrupting passing lanes.You're absolutely right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-mUatZk6DI

I'm not even gonna link you last years highlights,where he averaged 1.2 steals in 21 mins.Those are way too long.
It’s a shame how he doesn’t even remember this. Must have never watched any games!! He’s living by the “What have you done for me lately” philosophy and it’s a damn shame. I’m excited for BOTH players. They’re gonna be a nightmare for opposing teams. Best defensive backcourt in the NBA. How can people not be excited about that? But noooo it has to be one or the other.. fuckin idiots! I like both players. Both players will be really good. Guarantee Murray has put in hella work. He’s passionate about basketball and that’s what a lot of players lack right now. He’ll be a major contributor.

[FkLA]

If you're going to pair them it's White and Murray not Murray and White, tbh.

[FkLA]

He’s passionate about coming off like he's passionate about basketball

FIFY

[skin27]

It’s exciting to know who will start between white and Murray next season..there’s now way pop put derozan off the bench..tbh

[BackHome]

I mentioned this even before White came on strong but always wanted to move Murray to SG but either way White and Murray are going to be a hand full on the defensive side. Can you imagine if we able to draft Thybulle..DAMN.

[ZeusWillJudge]

It’s exciting to know who will start between white and Murray next season..there’s now way pop put derozan off the bench..tbh

"Annd starting at small forward for your San Antonio Spurs... Demarrrrr De Roooozan!"

[skin27]

"Annd starting at small forward for your San Antonio Spurs... Demarrrrr De Roooozan!"

its not gonna happen, unless pop decides to go small ball..

starting 5 next season would be:

white/Murray , derozan, Gay, aldridge, poetl
or
Small ball = white, murray, derozan, Gay, aldridge

remember derozan is better at sg and aldridge is better at playing PF..

[Dennis the Menace]

Spurs are 9-2 in the last 11 games played with Derrick. Him and Murray together as combo guards is the future. They can both guard the 1-4 role and spot up from 3 when the other is running point. We will dictate matchup problems. This will be a breath of fresh air over the Parker & Mills days of getting exploited play after play after play after play

[DAF86]

Hot take # 0, tbh.

[DAF86]

But yeah, I still like Murray. I like White/Murray more than White/DeRozan, tbh.

[ZeusWillJudge]

its not gonna happen, unless pop decides to go small ball..

starting 5 next season would be:

white/Murray , derozan, Gay, aldridge, poetl
or
Small ball = white, murray, derozan, Gay, aldridge

remember derozan is better at sg and aldridge is better at playing PF..


Yeah, that's pretty much small ball by definition. Actually I think there were some games this season where White was listed as the SF. I think Gay is listed as a PF, even though he's been a SF his while career, and LMA is listed as a C. Right now White is unquestionably the PG, but Forbes and DeRozan are both on the floor with him. So who's the SF out of that group?

It's just some letters after the name in the p
ositionless NBA. Look at it this way: would you rather see White/Murray/DeRozan or White/Forbes/DeRozan? I don't think the Spurs are getting a quality starting SF for the MLE. And I doubt that they will be able to draft a SF who will be ready to hop straight into the starting lineup. So I'm really thinking you'll see those three on the floor together quite a lot, except when they absolutely have to go bigger.

[DAF86]

Yeah, that's pretty much small ball by definition. Actually I think there were some games this season where White was listed as the SF. I think Gay is listed as a PF, even though he's been a SF his while career, and LMA is listed as a C. Right now White is unquestionably the PG, but Forbes and DeRozan are both on the floor with him. So who's the SF out of that group?

It's just some letters after the name in the p
ositionless NBA. Look at it this way: would you rather see White/Murray/DeRozan or White/Forbes/DeRozan? I don't think the Spurs are getting a quality starting SF for the MLE. And I doubt that they will be able to draft a SF who will be ready to hop straight into the starting lineup. So I'm really thinking you'll see those three on the floor together quite a lot, except when they absolutely have to go bigger.

White/Murray/DeRozan on defense; White/Murray/Forbes on offense, tbh.

[DAF86]

Clear message: TRADE DEROZAN.

[timtonymanu]

Clear message: TRADE DEROZAN.

[skin27]

Clear message: TRADE DEROZAN. that’s not gonna happen bro, atleast for the next 2 years

[XDT76]

If the starting backcourt is white and Murray, that means we have a backup back court combo of mills and Forbes.

[slick'81]

If the starting backcourt is white and Murray, that means we have a backup back court combo of mills and Forbes.


Neither mills/forbes should be starting though

[XDT76]

Neither mills/forbes should be starting though

I am just worried that with Mills, Forbes and Belli as our perimeter defenders when the SL sits, whatever advantage we build will be gone in a snap. Maybe we can try a small lineup of Mills, Forbes, DDR, Belli and Bertans

[r0drig0lac]

Yep,nothing special at disrupting passing lanes.You're absolutely right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-mUatZk6DI

I'm not even gonna link you last years highlights,where he averaged 1.2 steals in 21 mins.Those are way too long.

there are haters on both sides, and that's not going to change, just relax, it's a spurstalk tradition, only here you found people here saying that Demar was a better offensive player than Kawhi

[skin27]

I am just worried that with Mills, Forbes and Belli as our perimeter defenders when the SL sits, whatever advantage we build will be gone in a snap. Maybe we can try a small lineup of Mills, Forbes, DDR, Belli and Bertans


Derozan won’t come off the bench..

[Seventyniner]

How does Murray compare to Tony Allen?

[ZeusWillJudge]

White/Murray/DeRozan on defense; White/Murray/Forbes on offense, tbh.


You didn't answer my question. With Forbes/White/DeRozan on the floor, who's the SF?

[Russ]

You didn't answer my question. With Forbes/White/DeRozan on the floor, who's the SF?

According to the ESPN box score, it's Rudy Gay:


https://i.imgur.com/NuOkOfs.jpg

[ZeusWillJudge]

According to the ESPN box score, it's Rudy Gay:

LOL. I was waiting for him to say that. So if Gay is the SF, there's nothing to do but show two SG's on the floor and no PF.

Remember, his original argument was that we won't see White/Murray/DeRozan starting. The Spurs SL has been smaller than that for most of this season.

[UncleDennis]

If Murray becomes at least a respectable 3 point shooter, I don't see why him and White can't start alongside La and DDr. I love how White seems to be moving in slow motion yet is picking his spots so effortlessly, he is playing at a different pace then everyone and he has a great overall game. What a great find by the FO. Murray really needs that 3 point shot though and I'll chose to remain optimistic in thinking he can improve it and they both can be huge parts of the future and keep with the overall trend that the NBA is heading towards.

I understand that the bench defense would take a hit with both of them in the SL, but just keep in mind they aren't going to be playing the SL of other teams either so if they can be similar to the foreign legion of past, with good shooting and ball movement they should still at least put up numbers, and if not staggering minutes is always an option.

[DAF86]

LOL. I was waiting for him to say that. So if Gay is the SF, there's nothing to do but show two SG's on the floor and no PF.

Remember, his original argument was that we won't see White/Murray/DeRozan starting. The Spurs SL has been smaller than that for most of this season.

Mhh, where, when?

[Phenomanul]

Murray plays taller than he is... he's long (albeit lanky)... which is one of the reasons why he excels at rebounding...

[GusT15]

there are haters on both sides, and that's not going to change, just relax, it's a spurstalk tradition, only here you found people here saying that Demar was a better offensive player than Kawhi

https://media1.tenor.com/images/314ce7ecc1d402fd95c92f1d008ef4f7/tenor.gif?itemid=8304598

I don't think FkLA is necessarily a hater,and i'm not taking anyone's side in a non-existent,out of place argument like Murray vs White.
I just saw a really BAD basketball take and i had to offer to my 2 cents on the matter.

[TDomination]

I was so excited to see Murray develop into a great player this year. That was literally the one thing i was looking forward to this year. But then his injury happened. Which guess what, has been a blessing in disguise for White. If Murray had never gotten hurt, do we ever find out that White is this good. Does he ever get the minutes that he deserves?

So anyways, it definitely not about White > Murray or Murray > White. Its can these 2 great defensive minded players play alongside each and make this team a legit defensive powerhouse again? And still bring the offensive game?

It will be very interesting to see what happens next year. I just hope both stay healthy.

[Russ]

Murray plays taller than he is... he's long (albeit lanky)... which is one of the reasons why he excels at rebounding...

How about White, Murray, Forbes, DeRozan and Aldridge?

An unathletic lineup gets quick pretty quick.

Let's face it, the Spurs have a ton of good choices going forward.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Mhh, where, when?

Sorry, it was Skin27 who said that. You were the one who said, "White/Murray/Forbes on offense." and "Clear message: trade DeRozan".

After enough bad takes, my eyes begin to bleed and you guys start to blend together.

[ZeusWillJudge]

How about White, Murray, Forbes, DeRozan and Aldridge?

An unathletic lineup gets quick pretty quick.

Let's face it, the Spurs have a ton of good choices going forward.


IMO, DeRozan and Forbes on the floor together is a disaster, especially against starters. I just don't think a team can excel by trading buckets.

I watched Forbes on some plays last night, and he looked like one of those videos of a cat chasing a laser spot.

[DAF86]

Sorry, it was Skin27 who said that. You were the one who said, "White/Murray/Forbes on offense." and "Clear message: trade DeRozan".

After enough bad takes, my eyes begin to bleed and you guys start to blend together.

Seeing how you can't distinguish two different posters, I understand you not thinking trading DeRozan would be better for the Spurs in the long run, tbh.

[spurraider21]

lol, there's no question right now that White is the better player than Murray. White isn't good "for his age" or "shows signs of being good"... he's a high quality NBA starter. Murray isn't there yet, and if he doesn't get his jumper to at least TP levels, then he might never be.

but i still dont see this is a situation where we have to choose one. they can be the new manu/tp... stagger playing time, both effective in their own ways. i think there's potential for them to coexist as starters (and that would be a ferocious defensive backcourt), but its not going to work if derozan is on the team. so imo the white/murray discussion is a distraction from the real elephant

[DAF86]

lol, there's no question right now that White is the better player than Murray. White isn't good "for his age" or "shows signs of being good"... he's a high quality NBA starter. Murray isn't there yet, and if he doesn't get his jumper to at least TP levels, then he might never be.

but i still dont see this is a situation where we have to choose one. they can be the new manu/tp... stagger playing time, both effective in their own ways. i think there's potential for them to coexist as starters (and that would be a ferocious defensive backcourt), but its not going to work if derozan is on the team. so imo the white/murray discussion is a distraction from the real elephant

I could have easily made a thread with a title that reads: "I like the White/Murray combo for the future", but what's the fun in that?

[DJR210]

White's emergence at PG just makes it clear that the Spurs will need to start Murray at the 2 and use him as a combo guard.. Assuming Murray returns healthy, the Spurs need to unload DeRozan and get an additional young player/picks in return.. It makes no sense to have him on the roster at that price with our guard depth..

[spurraider21]

I could have easily made a thread with a title that reads: "I like the White/Murray combo for the future", but what's the fun in that?
you dont have to say they're equal. you can say white >> murray and still have murray on the team.

[DAF86]

you dont have to say they're equal. you can say white >> murray and still have murray on the team.

Well, I said it in the OP:


FWIW, I like Murray and I think he will be part of our future. He just isn't better than White.

But, as always, people only read the tittle.