General Mattis out over disagreement w Trump (Syria)

[phxspurfan]

Wow, our best general, the guy who led Iraq invasion #2 is out due to disagreements w/Trump over pulling out of Syria (for Putin/Russia). Even hardcore conservatives like Mattis basically making huge statements about the president's true allegiances.

[Chris]

Mattis is retiring.

[phxspurfan]

Mattis is retiring.

That was the first headline, but the second is comments about the conditions of his retirement. Mattis very concerned about Trump's policy decisions, specifically about the fate of Syria following the US's sudden departure.

[Pavlov]

Mattis is retiring.His letter said nothing about retirement, Chris.

Not one word.

[Chris]

His letter said nothing about retirement, Chris.

Not one word.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075878793393463296

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075878793393463296That isn't Mattis's letter Chris.

Have you even read the letter, Chris?

Yes or no

[Chris]

That isn't Mattis's letter Chris.

Have you even read the letter, Chris?

Yes or no

Mattis is retiring.

[Pavlov]

Mattis is retiring.Where in the Mattis letter does it say that, Chris?

Post the sentence from it.

Have you read the letter, Chris?

Yes or no.

[Spurminator]

Chris can't handle his leader being shit on by smarter people. He validates himself through the success of Donald Trump and therefore ignores any evidence of Trump's weakness.

Par for the course for people who hate themselves. I've never seen such a miserable human being. He should spend less time here and more time with a therapist.

[MultiTroll]

"step down" -Mattis.

“Because you have the right to have a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position,” Mattis said in the letter to Trump released by the Pentagon.

[Pavlov]

That's clearly a resignation.

[Chris]

Aristophanes

[Chris]

Damn this was published 3 months ago and slipped under the radar. Interesting read:

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/general-mattis-and-his-consultants-are-putting-together-a-presidential-campaign/

[djohn2oo8]

Read the letter Chris

[Pavlov]

Damn this was published 3 months ago and slipped under the radar. Interesting read:

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/general-mattis-and-his-consultants-are-putting-together-a-presidential-campaign/I called it.

[Pavlov]

Read the letter ChrisHe won't. His ignorance is his only defense.

[Chris]

Read the letter Chris

Mattis is retiring.

[djohn2oo8]

Mattis is retiring.
You didn’t read the letter.

[Pavlov]

Mattis is retiring.Did you read the letter, Chris?

Yes or no.

[Chris]

You didn’t read the letter.

I read the letter...




and...




Mattis is retiring.

[Pavlov]

I read the letter...




and...




Mattis is retiring.Show in the letter where it says he's retiring, Chris.

Step up.

[Will Hunting]

Mattis is retiring.


His letter said nothing about retirement, Chris.

Not one word.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075878793393463296


That isn't Mattis's letter Chris.

Have you even read the letter, Chris?

Yes or no


Mattis is retiring.
When in doubt and when the facts don’t agree with you, just keep parroting the same 3-4 words!

[djohn2oo8]

1075893373431615490

[DarrinS]

Last competent cabinet member stepping down. What a shit show, tbh

[Chris]

When in doubt and when the facts don’t agree with you, just keep parroting the same 3-4 words!

Mattis is retiring at the end of February.

[Will Hunting]

Mattis is retiring at the end of February.
If you repeat it enough times maybe it’ll be become true!

[Will Hunting]

What’s the over under on when Kellyanne quits her job?

[Pavlov]

:lol today broke Qhrisbot

[Spurminator]

https://www.standupcomedyclinic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Stuart-Smalley-1.jpg

"gEneRal mATtIs iS RetIRiNg"

[Chris]

If you repeat it enough times maybe it’ll be become true!

Mattis wants some kind of new international world order. I've heard that rhetoric before.

[Will Hunting]

Mattis wants some kind of new international world order. I've heard that rhetoric before.
Cool!

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/alexanderbruz/status/1075900015049101312

[Pavlov]

Mattis wants some kind of new international world order. I've heard that rhetoric before.I've heard your conspiracy theories before.

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/alexanderbruz/status/1075900015049101312Is Mattis a Luciferian, Chris?

Yes or no.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/CarmineSabia/status/1075900905239797761

[Blake]

When in doubt and when the facts don’t agree with you, just keep parroting the same 3-4 words!

And then deflect with a different subject using the Twitters

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/CarmineSabia/status/1075900905239797761So what?

[ducks]

So he leaves she has a hissy fit
Just like former fbi needed to go tell he left

[ducks]

Defense Secretary James Mattis to retire at the end of February, Trump says

[Chris]

Defense Secretary James Mattis to retire at the end of February, Trump says

According to experts on the board here, this is not true.

[ducks]

Mattis announced plans to resign after a face-to-face meeting with Trump in which they aired their differences, a senior White House official said.

"Because you have a right to a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position," Mattis said in his resignation letter, released by the Pentagon.

[DarrinS]

Mattis announced plans to resign after a face-to-face meeting with Trump in which they aired their differences, a senior White House official said.

"Because you have a right to a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position," Mattis said in his resignation letter, released by the Pentagon.


Don't you think this is really bad news? I do.

[Pavlov]

Defense Secretary James Mattis to retire at the end of February, Trump says


According to experts on the board here, this is not true.


Mattis announced plans to resign:lmao

[phxspurfan]

Posting the full retirement letter in here in plain text so people can quote.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5656052/Jim-Mattis-resignation-letter.pdf


SECRETARY OF DEFENSE
1000 DEFENSE PENTAGON WASHINGTON, DC 20301-1000
December 20, 2018
Dear Mr. President:
I have been privileged to serve as our country's 26th Secretary of Defense which has allowed me to serve alongside our men and women of the Department in defense of our citizens and our ideals.
I am proud of the progress that has been made over the past two years on some of the key goals articulated in our National Defense Strategy: putting the Department on a more sound budgetary footing, improving readiness and lethality in our forces, and reforming the Department's business practices for greater performance. Our troops continue to provide the capabilities needed to prevail in conflict and sustain strong U.S. global influence.
One core belief I have always held is that our strength as a nation is inextricably linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships. While the US remains the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies. Like you, I have said from the beginning that the armed forces of the United States should not be the policeman of the world. Instead, we must use all tools of American power to provide for the common defense, including providing effective leadership to our alliances. NATO's 29 democracies demonstrated that strength in their commitment to fighting alongside us following the 9-11 attack on America. The Defeat-ISIS coalition of 74 nations is further proof.
Similarly, I believe we must be resolute and unambiguous in our approach to those countries whose strategic interests are increasingly in tension with ours. It is clear that China and Russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model - gaining veto authority over other nations' economic, diplomatic, and security decisions - to promote their own interests at the expense of their neighbors, America and our allies. That is why we must use all the tools of American power to provide for the common defense.
My views on treating allies with respect and also being clear-eyed about both malign actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades of immersion in these issues. We must do everything possible to advance an international order that is most conducive to our security, prosperity and values, and we are strengthened in this effort by the solidarity of our alliances.
Because you have the right to have a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position. The end date for my tenure is February 28, 2019, a date that should allow sufficient time for a successor to be nominated and confirmed as well as to make sure the Department's interests are properly articulated and protected at upcoming events to include Congressional
posture hearings and the NATO Defense Ministerial meeting in February. Further, that a full transition to a new Secretary of Defense occurs well in advance of the transition of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in September in order to ensure stability within the Department.
I pledge my full effort to a smooth transition that ensures the needs and interests of the 2.15 million Service Members and 732,079 DoD civilians receive undistracted attention of the Department at all times so that they can fulfill their critical, round-the-clock mission to protect the American people.
I very much appreciate this opportunity to serve the nation and our men and women in uniform.

(signed)
James Mattis

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/almostjingo/status/1075909919600078849

[Chris]

Stephen Miller going HAM on CNN


https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1075911402676674560

[spurraider21]

a) :lol aligning with russia instead of the US
b) why does using ISIL over ISIS bother you so much?

[pgardn]

Why did Trump send planes to bomb Syria?

He said it was because the gas attack.
Trump is a man who keeps his promises so I'm confused.

[Trill Clinton]

https://www.standupcomedyclinic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Stuart-Smalley-1.jpg

"gEneRal mATtIs iS RetIRiNg"

:lol

[clambake]

https://www.standupcomedyclinic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Stuart-Smalley-1.jpg

"gEneRal mATtIs iS RetIRiNg"

lol

[Will Hunting]

According to experts on the board here, this is not true.
According to Mattis himself it’s not true.

[clambake]

coup


thats french, you know

[vy65]

Just got in here, I heard Mattis might be retiring at the end of February? Is that true?

If only there was something straight from Mattis, like a letter, where we could see what the man himself has to say about this??

[DMX7]

I read the letter...




and...




Mattis is retiring.


He totally rebuked everything Trump stands for and then he explicitly said he's stepping down because he isn't aligned with the president. That's not a retirement, that's a resignation.

[DMX7]

Stephen Miller going HAM on CNN


https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1075911402676674560

So why does Trump want to keep helping Saudi Arabia in its war???

[DMX7]

1075823875471093760

[boutons_deux]

Pull of Syria, telling no one

Mattis quits

Agreeing to funding, then disagreeing so to shut down Fri night

Lifting sanctions on Deripaska's companies

HUGE deflections from Mueller closing in

Whitaker and Barr will defund, if not halt, Mueller

[Chris]

So why does Trump want to keep helping Saudi Arabia in its war???

Just another mess Trump has to clean up. How do you like them gas prices?

[Chris]

1075823875471093760

Why do you want Americans to die in Syria?

[DMX7]

Just another mess Trump has to clean up. How do you like them gas prices?

Kids are dying and a humanitarian crisis is going on. For low gas prices?

Trump hasn't cleaned up anything. He's just made more messes.


Why do you want Americans to die in Syria?

I don't, but Mattis thinks we shouldn't withdraw and I trust him more than Trump.

[Chris]

Kids are dying and a humanitarian crisis is going on. For low gas prices?

Trump hasn't cleaned up anything. He's just made more messes.



I don't, but Mattis thinks we shouldn't withdraw and I trust him more than Trump.

Do you trust Ted Lieu?


https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1075609295167913984?s=21

[Th'Pusher]

Do you trust Ted Lieu?


https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1075609295167913984?s=21

Too bad Trump’s not withdrawing troops because congress hasn’t authorized use of force.

Ted Lieu good now?

[DMX7]

Too bad Trump’s not withdrawing troops because congress hasn’t authorized use of force.


He's been president for two years and he decides now that congress hasn't authorized it? LOL, this is why Trump tells supporters like Chris things as silly as Mattis retired (as opposed to resigned). Because he knows they'll believe it.

[Spurminator]

If you like that Ted Lieu tweet, there are a bunch of others that are gonna blow your mind.

[DMX7]

If you like that Ted Lieu tweet, there are a bunch of others that are gonna blow your mind.

1075889035971842049

[FrostKing]

Wow, our best general, the guy who led Iraq invasion #2 is out due to disagreements w/Trump over pulling out of Syria (for Putin/Russia). Even hardcore conservatives like Mattis basically making huge statements about the president's true allegiances.
"For Putin/Russia"
Is this troll or do you honestly believe that?


Warmongers gonna warmonger. Not surprised the necons are upset. This is a central reason why I voted Trump and not necessarily Republican

[phxspurfan]

Mattis thinks we shouldn't withdraw

Not sure he ever said this. I'd say you shouldn't withdraw everyone until you at least help them help themselves first (train a police force and set up a puppet government :lol). Otherwise shit will just turn into anarchy/ISIS recruitment center

[DMX7]

Not sure he ever said this. I'd say you shouldn't withdraw everyone until you at least help them help themselves first (train a police force and set up a puppet government :lol). Otherwise shit will just turn into anarchy/ISIS recruitment center

Of course he believes we should stay. He resigned the day after the Syria withdrawal was announced... and he was reportedly angered that the Kurdish fighters were going to be abandoned and left vulnerable to Turkey.

[Spurs Homer]

"For Putin/Russia"
Is this troll or do you honestly believe that?


Warmongers gonna warmonger. Not surprised the necons are upset. This is a central reason why I voted Trump and not necessarily Republican


Trump absolutely did this because Putin wanted this. Have you not been paying attention?
Troll talking about trolling lol.

[Winehole23]

Spurs Homer is like a hedgehog, he sees one big thing. Muh Russia. Today is gonna be dumber than yesterday.

Trump reportedly made the decision after talking to Erdogan, who might have a few inconvenient receipts in his pockets too.

Trump also needed to do something dramatic to drive a very bad news cycle yesterday -- foreign policy by tweet and muh wall.

[rmt]

Trump absolutely did this because Putin wanted this. Have you not been paying attention?
Troll talking about trolling lol.

IMO, Putin has nothing to do with this - what is with you and your conspiracy theories - you really think that Trump could be setting this up with Putin (through an interpreter) and nobody leaks this?

I think that Trump is looking at these foreign "wars" or whatever you want to call them and the amount of money they are consuming COMPARED to the measly 5 billion dollars that he's asking for the border and what he has to sacrifice politically shutting down the government (which is not going to end well for him but he must). I blame these spineless, cowards called Republicans in the Senate - singing Christmas carols, indeed (although I guess I should give them credit for singing CHRISTmas carols - unlike this woman at work who objected that our youtube Christmas party background music referred to Christ - mind you, she's Catholic but we've gotten so politically correct that she felt moved to comment even though it didn't bother the sole Jewish person there.

[Will Hunting]

IMO, Putin has nothing to do with this - what is with you and your conspiracy theories - you really think that Trump could be setting this up with Putin (through an interpreter) and nobody leaks this?

Through an interpreter? :lmao

Do you think Putin doesn’t speak English?

[clambake]

IMO, Putin has nothing to do with this - what is with you and your conspiracy theories - you really think that Trump could be setting this up with Putin (through an interpreter) and nobody leaks this?

I think that Trump is looking at these foreign "wars" or whatever you want to call them and the amount of money they are consuming COMPARED to the measly 5 billion dollars that he's asking for the border and what he has to sacrifice politically shutting down the government (which is not going to end well for him but he must). I blame these spineless, cowards called Republicans in the Senate - singing Christmas carols, indeed (although I guess I should give them credit for singing CHRISTmas carols - unlike this woman at work who objected that our youtube Christmas party background music referred to Christ - mind you, she's Catholic but we've gotten so politically correct that she felt moved to comment even though it didn't bother the sole Jewish person there.

your life is a riot!

[Spurminator]

What incentive would Putin or his translator have to leak conversations with Trump?

[Will Hunting]

your life is a riot!
:lol

[Winehole23]

Turkey is the is the obvious regional power with which the US must parley, having been a US ally for 70 years. The withdrawal benefits Turkey, first and foremost and arguably cuts against Russian influence. The Kurdish quasi-statelet in Syria has put the US and Turkey at odds with one another.

[rmt]

What incentive would Putin or his translator have to leak conversations with Trump?

The US side - not the Russian side.

[boutons_deux]

The withdrawal benefits Turkey, first and foremost and arguably cuts against Russian influence.


Pootin's strategy against EU and NATO includes shifting Turkey towards Russia

search "Turkey Russia relations"

Trash pulling out of Syria is Trash continuing to execute his BFF / ball-handler Pootin's geopolitical strategy of weakening USA, both externally and internally.

[rmt]

your life is a riot!

Yes, it is - keeps things hopping - something else to talk about since so many topics are outlawed since the sexual harassment/ethics training :-)

[pgardn]

He totally rebuked everything Trump stands for and then he explicitly said he's stepping down because he isn't aligned with the president. That's not a retirement, that's a resignation.

This is the universal sign of a Trumpster.
One must be able to lie and try to deceive on the most trivial subjects.
Chris and Donald go to the same church that does not exist.
These are the Christians to look up to.

[Spurs Homer]

IMO, Putin has nothing to do with this - what is with you and your conspiracy theories - you really think that Trump could be setting this up with Putin (through an interpreter) and nobody leaks this?

I think that Trump is looking at these foreign "wars" or whatever you want to call them and the amount of money they are consuming COMPARED to the measly 5 billion dollars that he's asking for the border and what he has to sacrifice politically shutting down the government (which is not going to end well for him but he must). I blame these spineless, cowards called Republicans in the Senate - singing Christmas carols, indeed (although I guess I should give them credit for singing CHRISTmas carols - unlike this woman at work who objected that our youtube Christmas party background music referred to Christ - mind you, she's Catholic but we've gotten so politically correct that she felt moved to comment even though it didn't bother the sole Jewish person there.

Because we know exactly everything that was said in the Helsinki "private" mtg?

lol

[clambake]

Yes, it is - keeps things hopping - something else to talk about since so many topics are outlawed since the sexual harassment/ethics training :-)

my favorite part of your life is how your healthcare package is based on the random mood of a preacher.

[Spurs Homer]

Spurs Homer is like a hedgehog, he sees one big thing. Muh Russia. Today is gonna be dumber than yesterday.

Trump reportedly made the decision after talking to Erdogan, who might have a few inconvenient receipts in his pockets too.

Trump also needed to do something dramatic to drive a very bad news cycle yesterday -- foreign policy by tweet and muh wall.

yes , and putin publicly praising trump for this action didnt sway you one bit lol

[Winehole23]

Pootin's strategy against EU and NATO includes shifting Turkey towards Russia

search "Turkey Russia relations"

Trash pulling out of Syria is Trash continuing to execute his BFF / ball-handler Pootin's geopolitical strategy of weakening USA, both externally and internally.

How does pulling out of Syria benefit Russia more than Turkey?

How does it weaken the US?



(lol Boutons frowning over a slight relaxation of the the US imperial posture.

don't sprain an eyebrow worrying about it too much!)

[Pavlov]

my favorite part of your life is how your healthcare package is based on the random mood of a preacher.:lol no. She has government provided health care.

[Winehole23]

yes , and putin publicly praising trump for this action didnt sway you one bit lolNot at all.

I hate both of those guys. Emphasizing Russia over Turkey WRT the pullout from Syria is a dumb take.

[pgardn]

Turkey is the is the obvious regional power with which the US must parley, having been a US ally for 70 years. The withdrawal benefits Turkey, first and foremost and arguably cuts against Russian influence. The Kurdish quasi-statelet in Syria has put the US and Turkey at odds with one another.mm


This is a reality that assuredly never crossed Trump’s thought process.

Ann Coulter throwing a hissy fit on a cable channel Trump was glued to.... that’s influence.

[djohn2oo8]

yes , and putin publicly praising trump for this action didnt sway you one bit lol
Mattis even referred to this in his letter

[pgardn]

yes , and putin publicly praising trump for this action didnt sway you one bit lol


What?

Winehole is not hater.

[Winehole23]

mm


This is a reality that assuredly never crossed Trump’s thought process.

Ann Coulter throwing a hissy fit on a cable channel Trump was glued to.... that’s influence.The decision was reportedly made immediately after a Trump/Erdogan phone call Tuesday and announced yesterday. This is scuttlebutt from inside the WH.

[Winehole23]

on a slightly related note, I agree with Prof. Vladeck that the US Congress should rescind the 2001 AUMF and take back responsibility for war making.

[pgardn]

The decision was reportedly made immediately after a Trump/Erdogan phone call Tuesday and announced yesterday. This is scuttlebutt from inside the WH.

With the deep thought that Trump puts into foreign affairs, I can see Erdogan taking the easy route and explaining how it would stop people in the US from talking about his other blunders. No need for details. Just mention what the cable news people will start talking about.

[Winehole23]

Erdogan might have some receipts.

Mike Flynn worked for the Turks before and after (but officially not during) his cabinet tenure. His business associates reported directly to Ankara.

There's also L'Affaire Khashoggi. If the US knew or approved beforehand and Turkey knows it, that would be highly embarrassing if disclosed.

[pgardn]

Erdogan might have some receipts.

Mike Flynn worked for the Turks before and after (but officially not during) his cabinet tenure. His business associates reported directly to Ankara.

There's also L'Affaire Khashoggi. If the US knew or approved beforehand and Turkey knows it, that would be highly embarrassing if disclosed.

I can see this. However the US staying could be helpful to Turkish interests if we just cut ties with the Kurds.
We can be very helpful in that region militarily in a beneficial way to the Turks.


The type of pull out that is to come will be important.

[Winehole23]

No doubt the manner of withdrawal matters.

Can you sketch out what you mean about cutting the Kurds loose but sticking around to help the Turks? Not sure what you're driving at.

[pgardn]

There are still border areas controlled by a variety of militias that are not YPG.
The Kurds YPg have been very effective in some of these areas. But it’s not done.
We stop arming the Kurds, and we take up the fight in areas they have not cleared due to logistics.
Then the Turks will do what they can to move the YPG.

Personally from what I have read the turks are going to have a very difficult time moving quickly on this.
The YPG are very tough fighters even though they will be subject to more airstrikes. It seems turkey might just want a stalemate and then if no other country helps the Kurds they become vulnerable with time as well as less of a threat to Turkey

We apparently have the best intelligence on the remaining Syrian resistance in the north. This is of great help to all parties involved. We keep a prescence and we can make life difficult on any side we choose at any time.

[Winehole23]

So Trump isn't withdrawing the US from Syria?

[pgardn]

And as usual Trump is completely overstating the danger to US troops in Syria.
Afghanistan is where we get people killed and it’s not even close.

[Winehole23]

just curious, it's your take that we're not withdrawing, or likely not to?

[boutons_deux]

And as usual Trump is completely overstating the danger to US troops in Syria.
Afghanistan is where we get people killed and it’s not even close.

he's halving US troops in Afghanistan

[Winehole23]

here's the AP story I referred to upstream:

https://apnews.com/ec2ed217357048ff998225a31534df12

[Winehole23]

the phone call was Friday of last week (12/14), so all the huffing and puffing about Trump blindsiding his cabinet and the DOD (I'm guilty of this too) and governing by Tweet -- is bullshit.

[Winehole23]

apparently took Erdogan by surprise too:


Caught off guard, Erdogan cautioned Trump against a hasty withdrawal, according to one official. While Turkey has made incursions into Syria in the past, it does not have the necessary forces mobilized on the border to move in and hold the large swaths of northeastern Syria where U.S. troops are positioned, the official said.


The call ended with Trump repeating to Erdogan that the U.S. would pull out, but offering no specifics on how it would be done, the officials said.

[Spurs Homer]

Mattis even referred to this in his letter

Yup = his letter mentioned authoritarian regimes and he is done watching Trump side with them and oppose our allies.


Mattis is stained with his defense of Trump on the Khashoggi murder - and he knows that the slope is slippery the longer he stays -

[StinkyWeezleteats]

If you repeat it enough times maybe it’ll be become true!

That's the mark of a true Trumper, tbh. Also "if I believe it's true/false, proven facts be damned, it is true/false". Wonder what it's like living in a delusional world like that.

[Winehole23]

Also "if I believe it's true/false, proven facts be damned, it is true/false". Wonder what it's like living in a delusional world like that.dunno, you should ask djohn and Spurs Homer

[Spurminator]

The US side - not the Russian side.

What incentive does the US translator have to leak those conversations when everyone would know it was him?

[Spurs Homer]

What incentive does the US translator have to leak those conversations when everyone would know it was him?

The Helsinki translator was available to be deposed in a hearing. Dems asked Repugs to subpoena the translator to find out what went on in Helsinki - but of course the Repugs hate America and love Russia so that never happened.

Why?

Of course we know why but trump defenders refuse to see the treasonous acts and instead attack people who point it out.

[Winehole23]

You can't have one explanation for everything, Spurs Homer. The world isn't that simple, you're just simple-minded.

[boutons_deux]

https://twitter.com/rabrowne75/status/1075983283773734914

what set him off was a report that the Turkish Minister of Defense threatened to kill the US-backed Kurdish allies and put them “in ditches” once the US pulled out.


Mattis was incensed at this and the notion that the US was betraying an ally.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/james-mattis-resigns/h_4dffb2f5d8354b6dd2c8ddbb8dcf558f

Reminds of Poppy Bush encouraging Iraq's "Marsh Arabs" to rise up against Saddam.

When Saddam retaliated, wiped them out, Bush did nothing.

[Winehole23]

1076177450940284928

[spurraider21]

wheeling and dealing with saudi arabia and turkey

[Winehole23]

hard to see how the Trump/Kushners can separate their personal business interests from statecraft. it would take a lot of discipline and personal integrity for anyone.

[pgardn]

just curious, it's your take that we're not withdrawing, or likely not to?

IMO when Trump says something you never know what’s going to happen.
And I am giving reasons why the people in the US that were taken aback by this see that it might be a powerful advantage to stay in some capacity. We can easily turn this into a drawn out event just like when Trump has gone off the rails on other things and not notified people.

NPR stating that turkey Russia Syria and Iran all surprised by this development .
So apparently he did not make some sort of deal with foreign entities, recently at least.

[phxspurfan]

IMO, Putin has nothing to do with this - what is with you and your conspiracy theories - you really think that Trump could be setting this up with Putin (through an interpreter) and nobody leaks this?

I think that Trump is looking at these foreign "wars" or whatever you want to call them and the amount of money they are consuming COMPARED to the measly 5 billion dollars that he's asking for the border and what he has to sacrifice politically shutting down the government (which is not going to end well for him but he must). I blame these spineless, cowards called Republicans in the Senate - singing Christmas carols, indeed (although I guess I should give them credit for singing CHRISTmas carols - unlike this woman at work who objected that our youtube Christmas party background music referred to Christ - mind you, she's Catholic but we've gotten so politically correct that she felt moved to comment even though it didn't bother the sole Jewish person there.


Trump isn’t smart enough to set up anything. Russia/Putin is and has been using him for their own gains. Everyone knows it at this point, I mean come on there’s Putin dolls with trump as his baby

[phxspurfan]

hard to see how the Trump/Kushners can separate their personal business interests from statecraft. it would take a lot of discipline and personal integrity for anyone.

It’s no conspiracy, it’s the presidency. Trump is not new to making deals as the president. Our buddy Bush Sr (RIP) was great at it for his family.

[boutons_deux]

"Trump isn’t smart enough to set up anything"

What he gets/got was fees from laundering $100Ms, $Bs?, of Russian money through real estate deals, when no US banks would lend yo his business-shitty, bankrupting ass anymore after they got screwed on earlier loans.

What he gives is whatever the fuck Pootin wants to degrade America to Russia's benefit.

[FrostKing]

Boutans mind fucked mental gymnastics is very entertaining.

Reminds me of Hollywood's reaction when discriminated Muslims blow up jews

[Winehole23]

This month, in the January/February print issue of the gun and hunting magazine “Recoil," (https://www.recoilweb.com/) the former contractor security firm Blackwater USA published a full-page ad, in all black with a simple message: “We are coming.”https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/12/21/mattis-is-out-and-blackwater-is-back-we-are-coming/

[Spurs Homer]

You can't have one explanation for everything, Spurs Homer. The world isn't that simple, you're just simple-minded.

gfy

[boutons_deux]

How does pulling out of Syria benefit Russia more than Turkey?

How does it weaken the US?



(lol Boutons frowning over a slight relaxation of the the US imperial posture.

don't sprain an eyebrow worrying about it too much!)

... leaves Syria to Pootin and Iran

... allows Turkey to go after USA allies the Kurds

... Pootin wants USA "isolationist", disengaged internationally. Trash's fucked up State Dept certainly weakens USA's soft power.

[CosmicCowboy]

Lol Boutons the warmonger.

[Nathan89]

bwUAJybVn0E

[Pavlov]

Do you really expect people to watch that video for which you couldn't even bother to provide a comment?

[phxspurfan]

gfy

Quality alt tbh

[TSA]

wheeling and dealing with saudi arabia and turkey

1076103563082940418

1076103566807437312

[Winehole23]

... leaves Syria to Pootin and Iran

... allows Turkey to go after USA allies the Kurds

... Pootin wants USA "isolationist", disengaged internationally. Trash's fucked up State Dept certainly weakens USA's soft power.Syria isn't ours; Iran and Russia are in the neighborhood. Imagine Russia or Iran seeking to stabilize Mexico and you get the idea. It's their backyard.

Turkey is our ally too, historically and strategically much more important than the Kurds. Sucks for the Kurds. Reminds me a thing Kissinger once said how it is dangerous to be America's enemy but deadly to be its friend.

While it's certainly true that withdrawing troops from Syria and Afghanistan leaves the field to others, Russia already learned its lesson in Afghanistan and soon will in Syria if it doesn't leave. Iran has a legit regional interest, it's next door.

It may be true that our global adversaries want us disengaged from the world, but we're very far from that state of affairs, the evident disdain of DJT's administration for diplomacy and soft power totally notwithstanding. An empire that took 125 years to build can't be unwound in a few years.

I find it hilarious that Trump has turned the great Boutons into a defender of US imperialism and soft power. You bitched about the oligarchy and the financialization of politics non-stop for ten years, now you cry about Trump undermining the military might that ensures its global influence.

[Winehole23]

Bonnerific straight trolling, nothing topical to add to the conversation.

[Winehole23]

I give Trump and forum Trumpistas a mile of shit daily, you're just sore I've got criticism left over for the woke resistencia.

It is really odd that you think you have insight into the intentions and actions of other posters based on fleeting interactions online.

It's none of your business, but I didn't vote for Trump.

[Winehole23]

also none of your business, but also true: I've been an unaffiliated voter throughout my adult life. far more apt in general to throw away my vote on principled losers I like than for Dems or Republicans

it is true that of late I'm more apt to vote for Democrats merely to keep Republican dickheads out of power.

[Winehole23]

Missed this, DOD changed its mission statement this year:


For at least two decades, the Department of Defense has explicitly defined its mission on its website as providing "the military forces needed to deter war and to protect the security of our country." But earlier this year, it quietly changed that statement, perhaps suggesting a more ominous approach to national security.

The Pentagon's official website (https://www.defense.gov/) now defines its mission this way: "The mission of the Department of Defense is to provide a lethal Joint Force to defend the security of our country and sustain American influence abroad."

The new mission statement — featured at the bottom of every page on the site — removes the words "to deter war" while adding that it is the Pentagon's job to "sustain American influence" overseas.https://www.businessinsider.com/under-trump-the-pentagon-is-less-concerned-about-deterring-war-2018-6?IR=T

[benefactor]

I give Trump and forum Trumpistas a mile of shit daily, you're just sore I've got criticism left over for the woke resistencia.

It is really odd that you think you have insight into the intentions and actions of other posters based on fleeting interactions online.

It's none of your business, but I didn't vote for Trump.
Eh...I wouldn't dig too deep with Bonnerific. He's just working his angry man shtick and rmt is typically his favorite target. I've come to accept his rants as part of the furniture around here, much like ducks' mental retardation and Chris' bot like behavior.

[Spurs Homer]

What conversation is being had? The genetic embarrassment that is the citizenry filled with self loathing due to be being abject fucking cowards, added the blatant corruption of the Republican Party, has put us in a position to put the final nail in the coffin of the near century of American “greatness.”

dumb fucks like Chris spurt cocksucker cowboy retard mt and of course tsa sit and prove why this country has turned to shit. You sit here and try to pretend you’re some sort of thoughtful person, when all you’re really striving to do is rationalize and hold on to some imaginary construct that was the Republican Party. Well 30 years of propaganda, and electing a half black guy, has made you the party of trump. None of that will change.

Remember your vote for trump demonstrated you’re ok with racism, putting children in cages, and of course treason. By not speaking out at every turn against it, and what abouting all the false equivalencies you use to try to soften what is happening, shows you still really aren’t bothered by it


truth nukes

[Winehole23]

Eh...I wouldn't dig too deep with Bonnerific. He's just working his angry man shtick and rmt is typically his favorite target. I've come to accept his rants as part of the furniture around here, much like ducks' mental retardation and Chris' bot like behavior.Thanks for the tip.

Fwiw, one of my major pastimes in this forum is talking to all the jackasses and trolls, trying to draw them into conversations. If you can manage to do that, sometimes they break character.

Some never do. You might be right about Bonnerific. Some people are here just to dump on other posters, but you never know for sure unless you try to talk to them.

I like to think of myself as a jackass whisperer.

[Winehole23]

first off, sure you didn’t vote for trump.

Second, I don’t care about the left. They don’t matter in any other construct than there needs to be another point on the fulcrum.

Third, there is nothing unique about you. There were all kinds of you that determined that they were embarrassed by the birthed tea party take over of the Republican Party that they decided to self identify as independent or, even better, libertarian. That doesn’t stop them from still aligning with the pubs, and of course pull those all important r levers in the voting booth

but yeah you’re unaffiliatedIf you have any doubts about my political orientation, it's easily checkable on this site: I've been posting solid for a decade.

I make no claim to be special or unique.

[Winehole23]

But thanks for making it about me. So gratifying!:sleep

[Winehole23]

it is true that of late I'm more apt to vote for Democrats merely to keep Republican dickheads out of power.

[Winehole23]

Besides the presence of 4,000 to 5,000 U.S. troops and contractors in northeast Syria there also a contingent of 1,100 French troops and an unknown number of British forces. France for now says it wants to stay (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-france/france-says-islamic-state-not-defeated-troops-to-remain-in-syria-idUSKCN1OJ0U6) to finish the fight against the Islamic State enclave along the Euphrates.



But France does not have the capability to sustain those forces without U.S. support. Syria and Russia could ask Macron to put them under their command to finish the fight against ISIS, but it is doubtful that President Macron would agree to that. It is more likely that he will agree to a handover of their position to Russian, Syrian or even Iraqi or Iranian forces. Those forces can then finish the fight.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/12/first-fallout-of-trumps-decision-to-withdraw-from-syria.html

[DarrinS]

For bonnerific

https://www.betterhelp.com

[Chris]

I like to think of myself as a jackass whisperer.

:lmao

[Winehole23]

:lmaolaugh it up, you're one of 'em

[DMC]

What conversation is being had? The genetic embarrassment that is the citizenry filled with self loathing due to be being abject fucking cowards, added the blatant corruption of the Republican Party, has put us in a position to put the final nail in the coffin of the near century of American “greatness.”

dumb fucks like Chris spurt cocksucker cowboy retard mt and of course tsa sit and prove why this country has turned to shit. You sit here and try to pretend you’re some sort of thoughtful person, when all you’re really striving to do is rationalize and hold on to some imaginary construct that was the Republican Party. Well 30 years of propaganda, and electing a half black guy, has made you the party of trump. None of that will change.

Remember your vote for trump demonstrated you’re ok with racism, putting children in cages, and of course treason. By not speaking out at every turn against it, and what abouting all the false equivalencies you use to try to soften what is happening, shows you still really aren’t bothered by it

I'll pray for you.

[pgardn]

I next look for Trump to quit projecting power in the South China Sea.
I mean why do we need to be there?

Economics is always a part of the stuff. Part of the US becoming the most powerful nation on earth is because I have the ability to trade wherever we want. And to stabilize places where trade is profitable. The military is not just for protection.

This needs to be admitted, but not on a Boutons scale of frenzied logic.

[Winehole23]

I next look for Trump to quit projecting power in the South China Sea.
I mean why do we need to be there?I think the opposite. China looks to be the country Trump has identified as a strategic competitor.

[boutons_deux]

I think the opposite. China looks to be the country Trump has identified as a strategic competitor.

Pootin's strategy is America neutered, weakened, isolated and Trash is faithfully executing that strategy.

21st Century belongs to China,

[clambake]

Pootin's strategy is America neutered, weakened, isolated and Trash is faithfully executing that strategy.

21st Century belongs to China,

well said

[Winehole23]

Pootin's strategy is America neutered, weakened, isolated and Trash is faithfully executing that strategy.

21st Century belongs to China,Trump can't possibly isolate the USA, wreck our geopolitical posture and make us weaklings in four years.

I know catastrophizing is supposed to make others look complacent and dull, but in practice it makes you look ridiculous.

[boutons_deux]

Trump can't possibly isolate the USA, wreck our geopolitical posture and make us weaklings in four years.

I know catastrophizing is supposed to make others look complacent and dull, but in practice it makes you look ridiculous.

everything Trash has done geopolitically, in 2 years, has degraded USA geopolitically. The inventory is in my Wapo "lost the cold war" post.

60M+ Americans voted, KNOWINGLY, for an authoritarian, fascist, ignorant, racist, pussy grabbing, lying, traitorous asshole.

We are "lucky" :lol that Trash is too fucking stupid, ignorant to be even more destructive, but his oligarchy's cabinet is doing the real damage, actually continuing the destruction of govt that the oligarchy/Repugs have been doing for 40 years.

Maybe those 60M+ Americans, proven ignorant idiots, will next elect a true Machiavellian, excellent charisma to sucker them, knows lots of stuff, how stuff works, doesn't tweet, works silently, secretly, deeply and broadly intelligent, and deeply evil.

[Winehole23]

Clearly that's what you're pining for, you do nothing but discourage any notion things might turn out otherwise.

[boutons_deux]

Clearly that's what you're pining for, you do nothing but discourage any notion things might turn out otherwise.

not pining for it at all, and that's a stupid fucking statement

the AGW "water is boiling" as anthropogenic mass extinctions are well under way

Tell us how "things might turn out otherwise".

Who does what, how, when, just to stop, not reverse, the AGW catastrophe?

All projections for AGW are shockingly exceeding earlier projections "upper limits"

btw, Sky People are poised, next week, to start buying leases to fuck up pristine, virgin, magnificently wild ANWR, to pump more CO2 into the atmosphere, for $100Bs in Capital. Let's hear your tactics for stopping them.

[pgardn]

I think the opposite. China looks to be the country Trump has identified as a strategic competitor.

I look for it to happen just because it would be absolutely stupid on our part and Trump enjoys chaos.

[phxspurfan]

Maybe those 60M+ Americans, proven ignorant idiots, will next elect a true Machiavellian, excellent charisma to sucker them, knows lots of stuff, how stuff works, doesn't tweet, works silently, secretly, deeply and broadly intelligent, and deeply evil.

That can certainly happen and has happened throughout history. All the candidate has to do is adopt some pandering slogan “they took our jeorbs” and all the 90 IQ idiots will go running to the polls to sign up to get raped

[Winehole23]

I look for it to happen just because it would be absolutely stupid on our part and Trump enjoys chaos.There's something to that for sure.

The tactic of rapidly cascading bullshit keeps everyone off balance.

[djohn2oo8]

Somebody ask Chris why Trump is now shit talking Mattis on twitter

[Winehole23]

What's he saying?

[Th'Pusher]

Trump can't possibly isolate the USA, wreck our geopolitical posture and make us weaklings in four years.

I know catastrophizing is supposed to make others look complacent and dull, but in practice it makes you look ridiculous.


everything Trash has done geopolitically, in 2 years, has degraded USA geopolitically. The inventory is in my Wapo "lost the cold war" post.

60M+ Americans voted, KNOWINGLY, for an authoritarian, fascist, ignorant, racist, pussy grabbing, lying, traitorous asshole.

We are "lucky" :lol that Trash is too fucking stupid, ignorant to be even more destructive, but his oligarchy's cabinet is doing the real damage, actually continuing the destruction of govt that the oligarchy/Repugs have been doing for 40 years.

Maybe those 60M+ Americans, proven ignorant idiots, will next elect a true Machiavellian, excellent charisma to sucker them, knows lots of stuff, how stuff works, doesn't tweet, works silently, secretly, deeply and broadly intelligent, and deeply evil.

Gotta agree with BD to some extent here. I appreciate a glass half full, but you do seem a bit Polly Anna-ish. It’s not so much what trump can degrade in 4 years but rather the state of our democracy in general. It’s divided and broken and there doesn’t seem to be an end in sight. You have people who know full well Trump is an unqualified moron, but take no issue defending him for the sake of an online argument. We’ve never been exceptional. There’s nothing protecting us from demise.

[Winehole23]

I agree there's no rational limit short of annihilation for things to get worse, and that the damage DJT is doing is considerable and getting worse daily.

I remember posters on this board saying we couldn't survive four years of Obama without wrecking America utterly.

We survived eight years relatively intact.

It might not be a justifiable hunch, but I suspect something similar of Trump: he can't possibly wreck it all in four years.

Vote the fucker out in 2020.

[Chucho]

I bet Bonnerific gets great cocaine. Absolutely worthless mutt, but probably has a better blow connect than me.

[DarrinS]

You are exactly as worthless as dumb fuck Chris is.

You know you’re a piece of shit coward. You hate yourself for knowing that you’re a piece of shit coward. So instead of doing the honorable fucking thing you’ve done in your shitty trailer park existence, and just die, you project your own cowardly worthlessness by doing the bidding of people that wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire, because they pretend to hate the people that scare you.

You really need that link I posted for you. Get some help.

[Chucho]

No gutless fraud. You’re a fucking dumbass just like your inbrethren spurt and calf tats You tried to pretend you were some sort of thoughtful person, but the second you were pushed, you showed you are nothing more than an ignorant bigoted trumper piece of shit


Yeah, you're a mutt.

[Chucho]

Seek some anger management, you tweek ass mutt.

[Chucho]

And I still need an answer... do you kiss your dead mom with that filthy mouth, mutt?

[DarrinS]

Gotta agree with BD to some extent here. I appreciate a glass half full, but you do seem a bit Polly Anna-ish. It’s not so much what trump can degrade in 4 years but rather the state of our democracy in general. It’s divided and broken and there doesn’t seem to be an end in sight. You have people who know full well Trump is an unqualified moron, but take no issue defending him for the sake of an online argument. We’ve never been exceptional. There’s nothing protecting us from demise.

It's almost as if you need an insurance policy.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/coalition-all-democratic-forces-part-iii-what-if-trump-wins

[DarrinS]

You need to quit being what’s wrong with this country. You are every bit responsible for that 7 year old girl dying as your orange messiah you piece of shit

That's a sad story, but I care more about American 7 year olds.

[Winehole23]

What. The. Literal. Fuck?

The scant number of adults that were in the administration are gone, replaced by even shittier people. Intelligence experts and foreign policy experts are lamenting the long term effects of this fucking shitshow. The markets are crumbling for the wealth of this country to be even further concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, widening the wealth gap even further.

But somehow it’s ok? Yeah definitely not a full of shit republicanVote the fucker out in 2020. That's what I want.

[Chucho]

brilliant comeback. Stick with sucking calf tats with spurt. They are your intellectual speed


Yeah, because a billion accusations and a billion foul words are just revolutionary flames.

If your mom died of something, it was definitely disappointment, you worthless fucking piece of dogshit motherfucker cocksucker goddamnit cunt cocksucker faggot fucker fucker fucker piece of shit.

[Chucho]

That's a sad story, but I care more about American 7 year olds.

Bonnerific is responsible for his own mother's death. He's projecting onto you now.

[DarrinS]

It's almost as if you need an insurance policy.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/coalition-all-democratic-forces-part-iii-what-if-trump-wins


The dude who wrote this is a good friend of Comey.

[Pavlov]

It's almost as if you need an insurance policy.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/coalition-all-democratic-forces-part-iii-what-if-trump-winsI didn't see anything about FISA warrants in there tbh.

[Chucho]

A mother comment? What a great thinker you are. Stick with the kids table of fake intellectuals, and like minded sychophants like spurt and tsa. That way you can keep the world in a little safe box, and not have to admit what a piece of shit coward you are


Oh noes! More rage and more swear words. Man, you're totally getting me you worthless piece of dog shit fucking cunt cocksucker faggot disappointment of a dead mother's son.

[DarrinS]

I didn't see anything about FISA warrants in there tbh.


And?

[Pavlov]

And?I don't know why you posted it. Obviously you think it's significant.

Why?

[DarrinS]

No you don’t, you piece of shit. If you did you wouldn’t get off cutting funding for chip, head start, snap, etc.

Your soul is dog shit. You are a worthless fucking coward hiding behind the hate machine of the rw echo chamber to rationalize how pissed you are for being born a frightened little fucking boy


You're like a more hateful version of boutons, if that's possible. SAd

[DarrinS]

I don't know why you posted it. Obviously you think it's significant.

Why?


I don't know if it's significant, but I know you didn't read it. I guess you had time to search "FISA".

[Pavlov]

I don't know if it's significant, but I know you didn't read it. I did read it.

You posted it, Darrin -- why?

[DarrinS]

I did read it.

You posted it, Darrin -- why?

You did not read it. There are time stamps on our posts.

[Pavlov]

You did not read it. There are time stamps on our posts.I did read it.

Kind of looks like the same thing the Republicans would have planned against a Democratic president.

Why did you post it, Darrin?

[DarrinS]

Why do you lie about caring about American 7 year olds you fucking racist piece of shit?


^Lol, today's leftist tactic


You forgot to throw in Nazi or fascist


Lol, these morons think people like Dave Rubin, San Harris, Jordan Paterson are all right

:lmao

[DarrinS]

You know why he posted it.

He doesn’t know why he posted it. He thinks it’s some genius gotcha showing how trump is some sort of martyr. He’s a fucking moron. Not an ounce of critical thinking ability. Just spout whatever talking points the people that think for him tell him to. The big scary world is much easier for the shitstains if they keep it in little tiny boxes.


I'm so glad you and Pavlov are aligned. :lol

[Pavlov]

I'm so glad you and Pavlov are aligned. :lolBut why did you post it?

[DarrinS]

But why did you post it?

Free will

[Pavlov]

Free willJesus, now you have to derp out too?

I don't know why you're afraid to talk about something you posted of your own free will.

But there you are.

[DarrinS]

You’re the one betraying your self you dumb fuck.

You lied trying to pretend to care about American children you fuck. You don’t care about them. You just take pleasure in watching brown children locked in cages and dying because you’re scared of them

you deserve a million painful deaths. That little girl was innocent. But try to be hannity and pretend your some sort aggrieved party after showing what dog shit your morals are.


:lmao

[DarrinS]

Jesus, now you have to derp out too?

I don't know why you're afraid to talk about something you posted of your own free will.

But there you are.


Yep, I'm super sceered pavlov, chumpdumper, david, whoever you are.

[Pavlov]

Yep, I'm super sceered pavlov, chumpdumper, david, whoever you are.Then you can explain your reasoning for posting the insurance policy, Darrin.

Let's see it.

[DarrinS]

Jesus Christ you might actually be dumber than fucking spurt trying to use words he doesn’t understand.

You have no answers, you have no core. All you have is the rhetoric that comes from the people that you need to think for you because you know what a worthless scared fuck you really are.


Yes. That's it. Let the anger flow through you.

And then get help.

[DarrinS]

Then you can explain your reasoning for posting the insurance policy, Darrin.

Let's see it.

I just felt like it.

[Pavlov]

I just felt like it.DerpinS

[DarrinS]

DerpinS


PavlovBot broke?

[Winehole23]

Vote the fucker out in 2020. That's what I want.Hell, impeach him afterwards, I don't care

Win the Senate too and take away his annuity, bar him from holding any office of public trust. That'd be fine with me. Couldn't happen to anyone more deserving.

[Pavlov]

PavlovBot broke?No, Darrin. I called you DerpinS because you are afraid to discuss anything once you are asked point blank about something you posted.

That is what derp does.

I am saying you are just like derp right now, with all that entails.

Is there some part of that you don't understand now, Darrin? I'm happy to answer questions about what I post.

[Chucho]

Jesus Christ you might actually be dumber than fucking spurt trying to use words he doesn’t understand.

You have no answers, you have no core. All you have is the rhetoric that comes from the people that you need to think for you because you know what a worthless scared fuck you really are.

You always say "you're scared" and "you're a coward" to anyone who doesnt agree with you. What are they scared of and why are they cowards? Explain some of your accusations, give some kind of rationale beyond your rage and stupid routine of swear words. The only thing you show is you have zero capability of dealing with any sort of differing opinion and can only respond with hatred and foul words. I'm not even going to insult you, you're a novelty at best, but I'd like to see if you can manage a single substantial reply without blowing a gasket and spewing your usual rage filled tirade.

[Winehole23]

Then why try to soften what has so obviously been done, and can’t be taken back over the past three and half years? This is the culmination of 30+ years of the people that run the republican think tanks. They’ve lied and misrepresented and bullshitted stupid people in to not believing what their eyes see and ears hear.

At any point in time, decent people in that cesspool of humanity that is the Republican Party could have stopped the devolution of the conservative movement in this country. But the hate that permeates through the entire collective was used to make people stupid and scared and dependent on the talking heads to think for them.

And never ever ever pretend Obama is in the same stratosphere as this piece of shit. You may have disagreed with what the people that think for you told you what his beliefs and policies were, but at least he was calm and measured, and an adult.You're sore I criticized Obama for his fuckery because you like his demeanor?

Pobrecito!

[Winehole23]

Obama set the table for Trump in many ways. There's more continuity than people like to acknowledge.

[Winehole23]

Secrecy, prosecuting whistleblowers, harsh immigration enforcement, drone wars...

[Winehole23]

Rule by executive order...

[Winehole23]

You forgot tan suits and mustard there seanNo objection there. Lol comparing torture and indefinite detention to a tan suit.

[Winehole23]

No one coddled the . 01% harder than Obama.

When the system of payment was about to fail, he saved the fraudulent financial sector that caused the insolvency instead of the people hurt by it.

[Winehole23]

Oh and Obama phones and trying to institute sharia law. Also being a radical Muslim and not born in this country.

Seamless transition to engaging a known adversary to help rig an election, seamlessI didn't buy any of that bullshit and gave posters who did miles of.shit for it.

Ask anybody here.

[Winehole23]

Actually, I'm kinda famous on this board for calling Obama a Tory and the last moderate Republican.

[Chucho]

Who are the scapegoats in the eyes of your party? How did they convince you to ignore truth, Christ ignore something you have seen with your own eyes. How do they get you to vote to intentionally inflict damage to yourself and your family for generations?

they made you scared if you can’t see the propaganda they have pumped up your ass like calf tats does to you on weekends, then you are just another self loathing coward

So...you dont really know and are just talking out your ass. Not a single specific thing, just a brainwashed, dipshit response. You want to think your thoughts matter and think your thoughts are some kind of enlightened view and anyone who you dont identify with falls under your litany of foul words and retard identity politics.

You just might be the dumbest sack of shit on this board. Dumber than Derp. Boutons is a fucking tool, but at least he puts some substance behind his thoughts but your definitely giving Derp a run for his money as far as not being able to explain shy he says what he says.

[Winehole23]

Vote the fucker out.

[Chucho]

What an ironic statement.

Yes we do know. You are nothing more than a simple ignorant unwashed trumper. Keep the world safe and clean see no nuance or any fault in your side. Let the people that made you a frightened little boy continue to make you even weaker.

But you still cant explain why...

To quote someone smarter tha you, " God damn, you're a stupid mother fucker.".

[Chucho]

And lol "we". Pussy looking for comfort in numbers.

[Winehole23]

Hey, what do you know, you’re ignoring all sorts of context of the responsibility of the republican led congress too.

Yep, not a trumper.I said Obama set the precedent for rule by executive order. That's true.

Once he lost his Congressional majority, that's what he did.

[Winehole23]

Hasn't worked out so great for Trump. His EOs have been continuously slapped down and rightly so.

[Pavlov]

I said Obama set the precedent for rule by executive order. That's true.

Once he lost his Congressional majority, that's what he did.He's actually quite below average for the number of executive orders during a term in last century plus. Not to justify the imperial presidency, but the precedent was already there for decades.

[Winehole23]

The motif of legal incompetence surrounds Trump like an evil vapor...

[Winehole23]

He's actually quite below average for the number of executive orders during a term in last century plus. Not to justify the imperial presidency, but the precedent was already there for decades.
That's fair, but there was an uptick after the Senate was lost.

[Winehole23]

I can let that one go, it was bad enough that Obama coddled the financial sector in favor of suffering Americans.

[Winehole23]

We're still not out of the woods. The bad debt was never written down. Instead the financial sector got trillions in QE and a decade of arbitrage from zero bound interest rates.

[Winehole23]

Savers got fucked.

[Winehole23]

Homeowners got fucked. The bad guys were never held to account.

That's one big reason we are where we are now.

[boutons_deux]

Homeowners got fucked. The bad guys were never held to account.

That's one big reason we are where we are now.

BigFinance (aka predatory, extractive, criminal Capitalism) is one of the dominant owners of govt (yes, "progressive/Dem" Obama, too), so Obama/Treasury/Fed bailed out BigFinance, but let Main Street get fucked, jobs lost, 4M homes stolen, etc.

Just one of the many ways that oligarchy rigged non-oligarchy Americans to be fucked and unfuckable, and there's no (peaceful) way to unfuck it.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/breakingnlive/status/1076880976989560834?s=21

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/breakingnlive/status/1076880976989560834?s=21

"You can't resign! You're fired!"

[Chris]

"You can't resign! You're fired!"

Trump calls the shots. Mattis can get started on his presidential election run a lot sooner. Extremely classy and thoughtful of our POTUS to take the high road like that :tu

[djohn2oo8]

Mattis asked to stay on longer, dipshit

[Pavlov]

Trump calls the shots. Mattis can get started on his presidential election run a lot sooner. Extremely classy and thoughtful of our POTUS to take the high road like that :tu:lmao nice walk back

:lol "retiring"

[boutons_deux]

Mulvaney Suggests Trump Didn’t Know ISIS ‘Point Person’ McGurk Because

(https://www.mediaite.com/tv/mulvaney-suggests-trump-didnt-know-isis-point-person-mcgurk-because-he-doesnt-follow-this-topic/)
McGurk’s title is the ‘Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIS’.

How is it that the president doesn’t know his point person in the battle against ISIS?”

“The administration is thousands of – the executive branch of government is millions of people– I have no idea who that person is. Never heard of him–”

“You don’t know Brett McGurk?” Karl interrupted.

“Until yesterday. All I know is that there’s an Obama appointee who saw an opportunity–” said Mulvaney.

“He was a Rehnquist clerk-” continued Karl.

“He was,” said Mulvaney.

“He served throughout the Bush administration, he’s a lifelong Republican. He’s not an Obama appointee. He was tapped on–” Karl said.

“He took that – did he take that position under Obama’s administration?” interrupted Mulvaney.

“He was – he was held over from the Bush administration,” Karl clarified.

That’s when Mulvaney got to what he was really saying:

Trump wasn’t paying much attention to it.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/mulvaney-suggests-trump-didnt-know-isis-point-person-mcgurk-because-he-doesnt-follow-this-topic/

[boutons_deux]

James Mattis didn't simply resign, he pulled every fire alarm at the Pentagon on the way out (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/21/1820758/-James-Mattis-didn-t-simply-resign-he-pulled-every-fire-alarm-at-the-Pentagon-on-the-way-out)

He did something historic—resigning with a public letter saying he was in stark disagreement with Donald Trump, quite specifically in regards to his views on Russia and China.

Never in the history of this nation has a defense secretary resigned in protest over issues of national security and military strategy. Never.

As Donald Trump was tweeting that Mattis was heading off to retirement (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1075878792168685568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1075885907050418178&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2 018%2F12%2F20%2F1820616%2F-Former-Member-of-Obama-s-NSC-Says-Mattis-Has-Inserted-Himself-in-the-Nuke-Chain-of-Command),

Mattis was ordering his aides to distribute 50 copies of his resignation letter throughout the highest echelons of the Pentagon.

The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/20/us/politics/jim-mattis-defense-secretary-trump.html) has the extraordinarily unusual details of Mattis’s resignation.


Officials said Mr.

Mattis went to the White House with his resignation letter already written,

but nonetheless made a last attempt at persuading the president to reverse his decision about Syria, which Mr. Trump announced on Wednesday (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/us/politics/trump-syria-turkey-troop-withdrawal.html?module=inline) over the objections of his senior advisers.

Mr. Mattis, a retired four-star Marine general, was rebuffed. Returning to the Pentagon,

he asked aides to print out 50 copies of his resignation letter and distribute them around the building.


to make certain our military leaders knew he was resigning because Donald Trump’s view are so dangerous to the security of the United States.

Sen. Graham on Trump’s plan to withdraw troops from Syria:

“I can assure you it was done not based on sound military advice.

All the advice the President received from his national security team was it’s not time to withdraw from Syria…

This is just a disaster in the making.”

==========

NBC’s chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel says troops are “distraught.”

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3096498591/93894628e29423052bfbb488678d5bee_bigger.pngRichard Engel
✔@RichardEngel
(https://twitter.com/RichardEngel)
A sr military official told me US special forces troops distraught, upset,

morally disturbed by having to tell their kurdish allies in Syria that,

because of orders, their promises of defense won’t be kept.
6:45 PM - Dec 20, 2018 (https://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/1075915214594428928)

===============

Jennifer Griffin
(https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC)✔@JenGriffinFNC
(https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC)
(https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC)I am told to expect more resignations at the Pentagon in wake of Mattis.

A senior US defense official tells me:

“Make no mistake - Mattis is resigning in protest over the President's national security policies," a resignation based on "principle."
9:28 AM - Dec 21, 2018 (https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1076137394280296449)

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/21/1820758/-James-Mattis-didn-t-simply-resign-he-pulled-every-fire-alarm-at-the-Pentagon-on-the-way-outn?detail=emaildkre

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/carolineglick/status/1076779359158063104?s=21

[Spurtacular]

https://twitter.com/CarmineSabia/status/1075900905239797761

:lol Yup.
:lol Phonies

[Spurtacular]

https://twitter.com/carolineglick/status/1076779359158063104?s=21

Yup. Fuck him.

[Chris]

Yup. Fuck him.

He looks like Palpatine :tu

[Chucho]

^^^ Jesus Christ chuko, wine, This is your side.

:lol Having to stereotype and group everyone together. You shit stain, despite your mental capacity being minimal, everything isnt cut and dry as you make yourself believe.

[Spurtacular]

He looks like Palpatine :tu

Yea, I never cared about all his phony bravado.

[BD24]

Bonnerific and Boutons really fucking derailed this thread :lol

why anyone responds to either of the crazies is beyond me tbh

[spurraider21]

https://twitter.com/carolineglick/status/1076779359158063104?s=21
"the greatest cabinet in US history"

[Winehole23]

^^^ Jesus Christ chuko, wine, This is your side.It's never been more important to vote against Republican dickheads.

That's what I plan to do.

[boutons_deux]

"the greatest cabinet in US history"

Caroline Glick, Israeli Jew, unbiased observer

[Winehole23]

Do you think these things happen in a vacuum? The moron trumpers think the economy just improved after being terrible when the idiot took office.

You’re saying this like the strong arm of temporary tax cuts and deregulation under the pubs a W somehow didn’t exist. And that somehow the aggressive dismantling of regulatory agencies and ridiculous pointed tax cuts designed to choke off even more of the money flow at the top we are currently seeing isn’t happening either, so you have your next boogeyman when’s dem takes office.:lol

I criticized GWB nonstop on that other board people used to post on and I still have the knife out for the profligate ways of borrow and spend Republicans. They cut taxes, blow up the deficit, then blame spending levels and demand cuts to the safety net.

But there's always a trillion or two handy for a new war somewhere. God forbid military contractors should ever have to pare back.

[DMC]

Yeah chuko you are not just another fuck head trumper like the inbred twins

You're likely a product of the welfare system. I'd bet that you collect some form of government assistance even today. Is your fibromyalgia acting up?

[Winehole23]

It's true there's a class war.

There's been an upward redistribution of wealth in the USA for 48 years. The top decile of the top 1% are the winners, the top 10% benefit from asset inflation.

Voter suppression and redistricting tend to lock in the pattern.

Rule by the Republican Party is rule by the minority; it depends on anti-democratic institutions and policies to stay in power.

[Winehole23]

..as well as the ineptitude of the opposition and the apathy of understandably disaffected voters abandoned by both major parties.

[boutons_deux]

Gen. Wesley Clark asks if Trump was blackmailed into pulling out of Syria

some U.S. allies in the Middle East are wondering if Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan coerced Trump in some fashion.

“there doesn’t seem to be any strategic rational for the decision.

And if there is no strategic rational, then you have to ask, ‘Why was the decision made?

I can tell you that people around the world are asking this.

And some of our friends and our allies in the Middle East are asking,

‘Well, did Erdogan blackmail the president?

Was there a payoff or something?

Why would a guy make a decision like this?’”

“We’re not quite finished with ISIS….

What does this say about the foreign policy of the United States?

That we’re not reliable?

That we make strategic decisions based on no strategic logic?”

“What the United States had going for it is the reputation of reliability, consistency—

that we were going to be there through thick and thin.

The decision on the spur of the moment as the president made undercuts all of that….

This is a really dangerous time for the United States in foreign policy because of this.”

https://www.salon.com/2018/12/25/gen-wesley-clark-asks-if-trump-was-blackmailed-into-pulling-out-of-syria_partner/

[hater]

Lol this is all bullshit

USA spending 800 billion in defense

They will just hire an army of mercs in Syria and pretend they are not there anymore :lmao

Lol ppl believing US getting out of Syria :lol

[turkish spurs fan]

rumours say operations of turkish forces in eastern syria againts PKK will begin in 24-48 hours. some say it has just begun but i don't think it is true.

[LkrFan]

Where in the Mattis letter does it say that, Chris?

Post the sentence from it.

Have you read the letter, Chris?

Yes or no.
He read it. Trump read it too. But remember...https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1077330038255579136?s=19https://i.imgflip.com/2g6chx.jpg
:lol
https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1077330038255579136?s=19

[Winehole23]

The truly remarkable thing to me is that neither party will take the side of the 90% against the 10% who own the politicians, and make policy that benefits society as a whole.

[Winehole23]

If DJT had gone full Huey Long on us he'd be a force to reckon with. As it is, he's looking more and more like a very undistinguished one-termer.

[boutons_deux]

The truly remarkable thing to me is that neither party will take the side of the 90% against the 10% who own the politicians

... iow, America is ....

[phxspurfan]

If DJT had gone full Huey Long on us he'd be a force to reckon with. As it is, he's looking more and more like a very undistinguished one-termer.

Why would any elected official, who followed political rules to obtain the Throne, ever denounce the same people who helped him obtain the Throne? Or the same people who will execute business deals to set up his family's wealth for generations to come?

[DMC]

The irony. A big steaming pile of shit like you

Says a fatneck 4 eyed sloth with a whale for a wife.

[FrostKing]

The truly remarkable thing to me is that neither party will take the side of the 90% against the 10% who own the politicians, and make policy that benefits society as a whole.
There is few 90% of society share in common in a multicultural society. The largest demographic would probably be white females and that's still only 20-25% of this hypothetical non wealthy 90%.

[Th'Pusher]

Says a fatneck 4 eyed sloth with a whale for a wife.

Wow. Didn’t take much for you to join the dark side.

Fatneck, sloth, whale. You can do better than that.

I’m slightly embarrassed for you at this point.

[Spurtacular]

His letter said nothing about retirement, Chris.

Not one word.

Chump focusing in on a nothing argument (par). Aren't you glad that the guy who wanted to war with Syria is getting out of the way?

[phxspurfan]

No one coddled the . 01% harder than Obama.

When the system of payment was about to fail, he saved the fraudulent financial sector that caused the insolvency instead of the people hurt by it.

The bank bailout was actually started by the Bush Jr administration in 08.


And it was arguably necessary, as the economy was slipping into the greatest recession and panic anyone had ever seen. We were arguably days from a run on all the banks, and with their zero liquidity due to prop trading, we would have turned into a Greece. That means rules like no more than 200 bucks of withdrawals a day, and a subsequent credit downgrade of US govt bonds to junk. And with our Govts spending, that could have meant the Chinese stopping purchasing our debt and the USD losing reserve currency status. That meaning possibly your money would be worth nothing.

[Winehole23]

It's bullshit to suggest there was no alternative.

We could have done it the way we did the S&L crisis in the 1990s. Insolvent banks get nationalized and reorganized under Treasury supervision, and write down bad loans. The bank employees are kept on to run the bridge banks. Once the banks are healthy they're sold back to the public. Sure, bondholders take a big haircut, and stockholders lose but that's the risk you take when you invest in a corrupt bank.

Writing down the bad, derivatve based debt would have made it unnecessary to to keep interest rates at zero for decade; instead of QE, the money could have been used to leep Main Street rather than Wall St. afloat.

Instead, we made the problem bigger and the guys who caused the problem richer and more powerful than ever.
If we don't muddle through somehow the next crash will be geometrically worse, because of the persistent overhang of bad debt.

[Winehole23]

GWB didn't let Citibank vet Obama's cabinet, nor did he force Tim Geithner on him.

Obama owns the bailout; the decision not to prosecute tens of thousands of discrete financial felonies was the decision of his appointee Eric Holder.

IMHO this fact alone is one of the big reasons a pseudo-populist charlatan is President today.