Bertans unhappy with role

[Dejounte]

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/spurs-davis-bertans-says-hed-give-up-money-just-to-play-more

How much value does he have? Who would be interested? Can we use him as a trade chip to move up?

[FkLA]

Misleading thread title.

But I bet it gets fucking old to be yanked all the time while the coach's pet gets guaranteed, undeserved minutes.

[R. DeMurre]

He could potentially be more valuable next year when Murray plays more minutes & shores up the D. I still think he fits pretty well as a floor spacer/shooter between Poeltl and DeRozan.

[Mugen]

Don't blame him at all. Losers like Beli and Patty were getting all you can eat minutes by the old man even when they were having a terrible series (cheered on by the Suckers of course)....

Bertans didn't play great but his leash was short as hell compared to those two...

He'd do great on another team that knew fully how to utilize him and didn't bench him for midgets at the first sign of trouble...

[wildbill2u]

I don't blame him. He has worked hard on his defense, rebounding and to drive the lane when guarded on the perimeter. Sometimes I think he avoids open 3s just to show he can drive the lane. He can play at our weakest position small forward. And at times can lead the league in 3s.

You'd have to prove to me that you can get someone better in a trade or to let him go as he is completing his apprenticeship with the Spurs as a rotational player with known skills.

[UZER]

I don't blame him. He has worked hard on his defense, rebounding and to drive the lane when guarded on the perimeter. Sometimes I think he avoids open 3s just to show he can drive the lane. He can play at our weakest position small forward. And at times can lead the league in 3s.

You'd have to prove to me that you can get someone better in a trade or to let him go as he is completing his apprenticeship with the Spurs as a rotational player with known skills.

I love lamp...and Patty

:pop:

[SpurPadre]

Here's an idea Davis: stop making your best Bonner impression, play better and you get more minutes! Funny how that shit works, huh?

[MultiTroll]

Here's an idea Patty: stop making your best borderline low level GLeague impression, play better and stop robbing minutes! Funny how that shit works, huh?
FIFY

[spursistan]

Just like we suspected; Pop going down with the wombat who was playing like the worst rotation player in the entire playoffs will not sit well with few guys..

He did it before, but this was by far his most brazen act of player favoritism..Mills playing the last 20 minutes of Game 7 while shooting 13%/30% is complete bullshit and yet White and Bertans couldn't get a second chance or longer leash?

[Degoat]

I really like Bertans but guys he can’t defend for shit lol teams give the ball to whoever he’s guarding most of the time

[Dex]

He's got to prove he is more than just a regular season player.

Yes, he can stay on the floor against the Suns, Knicks, and Lakers of the league...but there is a reason his minutes dropped against the Nuggets. They were targeting him on defense, and he wasn't hitting shots on the other end (dropped from .429 to .273 and shot 2 less attempts a game)...that's how you find a seat on the bench.

[Pavlov]

Just like we suspected; Pop going down with the wombat who was playing like the worst rotation player in the entire playoffs will not sit well with few guys..

He did it before, but this was by far his most brazen act of player favoritism..Mills playing the last 20 minutes of Game 7 while shooting 13%/30% is complete bullshit and yet White and Bertans couldn't get a second chance or longer leash?Yeah, Bertans is unhappy he didn't get to play more point guard.

[tbdog]

Don't blame him at all. Losers like Beli and Patty were getting all you can eat minutes by the old man even when they were having a terrible series (cheered on by the Suckers of course)....

Bertans didn't play great but his leash was short as hell compared to those two...

He'd do great on another team that knew fully how to utilize him and didn't bench him for midgets at the first sign of trouble...

You are so damn annoying and misguided. Pop played 3 bench players, Beli, Mills, Gay. Bertans cannot play guard and was never contesting guard minutes. And Bertans was not going to outplay Gay. Nuggets played 3 bigs and Bertans couldn't guard or punish any of them. It's that simple and it has nothing to do with Beli or Mills.

[timvp]

1) Could have been something lost in translation. It reads as if he was talking in hypotheticals so I'm not sure it's fair to say he's unhappy with his role.

2) Nuggets were a bad matchup for him. Denver is one of the few teams left who play two physical bigs for a majority of the minutes. Bertans got bodied by their bigs to an embarrassing degree. Bertans trying to deal with Millsap was particularly pathetic.

3) Spur Fan somehow transforming this into a Mills/Belinelli related issue are being purposefully dishonest. When Bertans couldn't handle Denver's muscle, Poeltl is the player who started getting more minutes. Gay probably also got a few more minutes and was forced to defend Millsap when Bertans went full-blown Bonner and forgot to compete with the playoffs underway. Mills and Belinelli didn't play any more minutes because Bertans was getting trucked.

4) Bertans appears to be an important part of next year's team. With shooting becoming even more of an issue with the return of Murray, Bertans will be needed to stretch the floor. He's not going to play big minutes but he will play important minutes, much like this past season.

5) Bertans doesn't work as a starter. That's been proven, unfortunately. Considering he's a bench player who can't really be played when there are two physical bigs on the court, that's going to limit his playing time.

6) I think there's probably a better than 50/50 chance that this coming season will be his last with the Spurs. Bertans will probably get offers for more than he is worth as a free agent. With teams all wanting stretch bigs, someone is likely to pry him away. Considering he's a bad fit next to Poeltl (combined they don't rebound well enough defensively) and Poeltl is less likely to be overpaid, Bertans would be the one to let go.

7) Heading into the draft and free agency, the Spurs had to already be planning on bringing in players to compete with Bertans for minutes. If there's any fire to this smoke, this should make that even more of a priority.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Mugen is simply talking about pop's hypocrisy. He'll put bertans in the dog house but will give patty and beli minutes when they couldn't handle Denver's athleticism, speed and size either. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Raptors could use him. He's got a really quick trigger. And hes 6'10. Thats hard to find. Really hard to find.

[KobesAchilles]

Fuck Bertans. If you could play any type of defense and rebound the ball then you would’ve played more. It’s about heart/desire/technique and he is lacking at all 3.

Tbh I wanted half the team gone from last year and I got my wish. Now I’m hoping they do it 2 years in a row. Get rid of Patty, Marco, Gay, & Bertans.

Patty and Marco show cased no skill and no intelligence. Gay showcased no desire and no toughness. And Bertans showcased that he’s a late 2nd round pick for a reason.

[TDomination]

Yeah he struggled but like others said, his leash was extremely short.

[SpursRussia]

I can name a couple of players, who miserably failed in POs, but had much more playing time and a longer leash, so he's probably right. He's also better on defense that the likes of Belli and Millz

[Dex]

3) Spur Fan somehow transforming this into a Mills/Belinelli related issue are being purposefully dishonest. When Bertans couldn't handle Denver's muscle, Poeltl is the player who started getting more minutes. Gay probably also got a few more minutes and was forced to defend Millsap when Bertans went full-blown Bonner and forgot to compete with the playoffs underway. Mills and Belinelli didn't play any more minutes because Bertans was getting trucked.


This, in particular, bugged me too.

There are posters with a particular agenda (hint: there are some in this thread) who want to turn everything into a Mills/Beli bash-fest and act like that taints everything else the Spurs did right this season.

We get it. Mills is overpaid. Beli is a bad defender. This isn't necessarily a hot take.

That being said, they were both net positives over the course of the season. The bench was productive, and they both played significant minutes which put the Spurs in the position to make the playoffs.

Mills was injured and put a terrible shooting display against Denver, and Beli did pretty much what you would expect: he had some good games, had some bad games, and got abused on defense. They didn't bring Marco in to stop anybody on the perimeter...they brought him in to shoot, and he did so at a .421+ clip before wilting in Game 7 (on three shots in limited minutes).

The agenda pushing has been taken to a new level now that Denver got ousted.

[RC_Drunkford]

all I know is if we trade him he will score 20+ on us when we play against him

[BackHome]

Yeah I don’t think Pop used him properly and he did have the shortest leash of any Spurs player. As I said earlier if I was his agent I would be asking nicely for a trade. In the end I think us trading Bertans for something would be better for both parties just as long as we don’t get screwed. I still think Bertans could be a good player for the right team and the right scheme but not with our team and lack of scheme

[BlackAndWhite]

Maybe the reduction in minutes is justified. Bertans played terribly against Denver and since the all star break, his production dropped significantly

[ThaBigFundamental21]

He is awful. It's hard to understand the fanboyism. Bye bye Bertans.

[BackHome]

Well you could say that for most of our team Gay, White, Mills, Belli, DEROZZ,

[FkLA]

1) Could have been something lost in translation. It reads as if he was talking in hypotheticals so I'm not sure it's fair to say he's unhappy with his role.

It is. Seems like they asked him about money and his next contract, and his response was that he values playing time over money. That he'd give up a couple million if it meant more minutes.

You can tell who did and didn't click on the link (not talking about you) based on the replies. :lol

[rjv]

Here's an idea Davis: stop making your best Bonner impression, play better and you get more minutes! Funny how that shit works, huh?

[timvp]

It is. Seems like they asked him about money and his next contract, and his response was that he values playing time over money. That he'd give up a couple million if it meant more minutes.

You can tell who did and didn't click on the link (not talking about you) based on the replies. :lol

https://www.sportazinas.com/bertans-butu-gatavs-atdot-paris-miljonus-no-algas-lai-tikai-speletu-vairak/

Yeah, the Google translate version of the original article doesn't make it sound at all like he's unhappy with his role. I mean, maybe he is ... but he's more talking about he won't necessarily sign with the team that pays him the most amount of money. And that's basically what every free agent in NBA history has said, tbh.

[rjv]

expiring contract.

[MoSpur02]

Meh. If they trade him I won't be mad. If he stays I won't be mad. I doubt he wants to be traded. Pop is fair and will probably talk with Bertans about his role before or if anything is done such as a trade.

[vavvi]

1) Could have been something lost in translation. It reads as if he was talking in hypotheticals so I'm not sure it's fair to say he's unhappy with his role.

2) Nuggets were a bad matchup for him. Denver is one of the few teams left who play two physical bigs for a majority of the minutes. Bertans got bodied by their bigs to an embarrassing degree. Bertans trying to deal with Millsap was particularly pathetic.

3) Spur Fan somehow transforming this into a Mills/Belinelli related issue are being purposefully dishonest. When Bertans couldn't handle Denver's muscle, Poeltl is the player who started getting more minutes. Gay probably also got a few more minutes and was forced to defend Millsap when Bertans went full-blown Bonner and forgot to compete with the playoffs underway. Mills and Belinelli didn't play any more minutes because Bertans was getting trucked.

4) Bertans appears to be an important part of next year's team. With shooting becoming even more of an issue with the return of Murray, Bertans will be needed to stretch the floor. He's not going to play big minutes but he will play important minutes, much like this past season.

5) Bertans doesn't work as a starter. That's been proven, unfortunately. Considering he's a bench player who can't really be played when there are two physical bigs on the court, that's going to limit his playing time.

6) I think there's probably a better than 50/50 chance that this coming season will be his last with the Spurs. Bertans will probably get offers for more than he is worth as a free agent. With teams all wanting stretch bigs, someone is likely to pry him away. Considering he's a bad fit next to Poeltl (combined they don't rebound well enough defensively) and Poeltl is less likely to be overpaid, Bertans would be the one to let go.

7) Heading into the draft and free agency, the Spurs had to already be planning on bringing in players to compete with Bertans for minutes. If there's any fire to this smoke, this should make that even more of a priority.

Just read the original. The title here is 100% misleading. There’s zero unhappiness or complaints towards SAS organization. He was just trying to look like a good person who doesn’t solely focus on money which is how you are supposed to play it here in Eastern Europe. No material for criticism tbh

As for your points agree on all except “Bertans can’t start”. While it didn’t work in the past in the current roster if we don’t acquire stretching SF/PF he seems like the best fit next to Murray-White-DDR-LMA

[timvp]

Just read the original. The title here is 100% misleading. There’s zero unhappiness or complaints towards SAS organization. He was just trying to look like a good person who doesn’t solely focus on money which is how you are supposed to play it here in Eastern Europe. No material for criticism tbh

Thanks :tu

Yeah, even in the Google translation, criticism wouldn't fit in the context with the rest of the article. He even praises Pop in the article, as far as I can tell, tbh :lol

[Hoops Czar]

1) Could have been something lost in translation. It reads as if he was talking in hypotheticals so I'm not sure it's fair to say he's unhappy with his role.

2) Nuggets were a bad matchup for him..

The NBA is a bad matchup for him.

[ZeusWillJudge]

A guy who "only cares about the money", and they bitch.
A guy who only wants to play ball, and they bitch.
You know what that makes 'em?

Bitches.

[lmbebo]

He is awful. It's hard to understand the fanboyism. Bye bye Bertans.

He is a wanted commodity. I remember David Griffin gushing over him on the radio. Said he tried multiple times to trade for him when he was a GM at Cleveland.

[Degoat]

19th+ Davis for the 14th pick? Think Boston would say yes?

[tbdog]

19th+ Davis for the 14th pick? Think Boston would say yes?



Celtics can't absorb his contract

[bklynspursfan]

This, in particular, bugged me too.

There are posters with a particular agenda (hint: there are some in this thread) who want to turn everything into a Mills/Beli bash-fest and act like that taints everything else the Spurs did right this season.

We get it. Mills is overpaid. Beli is a bad defender. This isn't necessarily a hot take.

That being said, they were both net positives over the course of the season. The bench was productive, and they both played significant minutes which put the Spurs in the position to make the playoffs.

Mills was injured and put a terrible shooting display against Denver, and Beli did pretty much what you would expect: he had some good games, had some bad games, and got abused on defense. They didn't bring Marco in to stop anybody on the perimeter...they brought him in to shoot, and he did so at a .421+ clip before wilting in Game 7 (on three shots in limited minutes).

The agenda pushing has been taken to a new level now that Denver got ousted.

Truth

[Trill Clinton]

He is awful. It's hard to understand the fanboyism. Bye bye Bertans.

[Dex]

A guy who "only cares about the money", and they bitch.
A guy who only wants to play ball, and they bitch.
You know what that makes 'em?

Bitches.

Shots fired...target hit.

[kobyz]

The NBA is a bad matchup for him.

Or euroleague where he sucked there too...

[Mugen]

:lol "Agenda"....

Every criticism that you could lobby against Bertans in the DEN series could have easily applied to Beli and Patty...

Bertans isn't strictly a small ball 4, he's a wing as well and could have been used as such even when Poetl and Gay's minutes went up....(to be fair, Bertans had issues with guarding Beasley, but Beli was getting absolutely roasted)

Patty was getting lit the fuck up by Monte Morris and Beli couldn't guard a soul on Denver's team but those guys were playing minutes over the likes of DWhite when it mattered most...

But Bertans isn't a Pop guy, like Beli and Patty. My issue is that his leash is unquestionably shorter than those two other losers regardless of his on court performance.

Again, none of those guys had a good series. Bertans was bad, it was a bad matchup and he wasn't good. But maybe he could have done better in Game 7 than the combined 5 points from Patty and Marco :lmao

It's fine, Davis will be a really good role player (like he was for the Spurs during the regular season, better than Patty/Beli tbh) that will hit some big shots for a team that won't bench him at the first sign of trouble.

[kobyz]

He's very clumsy player, soft and not talented enough to be a rotation player not on a treadmill team...

[slick'81]

:lol "Agenda"....

Every criticism that you could lobby against Bertans in the DEN series could have easily applied to Beli and Patty...

Bertans isn't strictly a small ball 4, he's a wing as well and could have been used as such even when Poetl and Gay's minutes went up....(to be fair, Bertans had issues with guarding Beasley, but Beli was getting absolutely roasted)

Patty was getting lit the fuck up by Monte Morris and Beli couldn't guard a soul on Denver's team but those guys were playing minutes over the likes of DWhite when it mattered most...

But Bertans isn't a Pop guy, like Beli and Patty. My issue is that his leash is unquestionably shorter than those two other losers regardless of his on court performance.

Again, none of those guys had a good series. Bertans was bad, it was a bad matchup and he wasn't good. But maybe he could have done better in Game 7 than the combined 5 points from Patty and Marco :lmao

It's fine, Davis will be a really good role player (like he was for the Spurs during the regular season, better than Patty/Beli tbh) that will hit some big shots for a team that won't bench him at the first sign of trouble.


obviously were just haters because patty and belli are great regular season players that show up when it matters most

[DPG21920]

Meh. If they trade him I won't be mad. If he stays I won't be mad. I doubt he wants to be traded. Pop is fair and will probably talk with Bertans about his role before or if anything is done such as a trade.

Agreed. I think Bertans is more valuable than Mills/Beli, but because of that he’s likely more valuable in a trade. If that is the case and it takes moving Bertans + SA pick(s) to move up and get a guy they love, I am 100% on board with that. Same with Forbes.

Players I like to have, but are not a true core member when it comes to landing the SF/PF of the future.

[Dex]

:lol "Agenda"....

Every criticism that you could lobby against Bertans in the DEN series could have easily applied to Beli and Patty...

Bertans isn't strictly a small ball 4, he's a wing as well and could have been used as such even when Poetl and Gay's minutes went up....(to be fair, Bertans had issues with guarding Beasley, but Beli was getting absolutely roasted)

Patty was getting lit the fuck up by Monte Morris and Beli couldn't guard a soul on Denver's team but those guys were playing minutes over the likes of DWhite when it mattered most...

But Bertans isn't a Pop guy, like Beli and Patty. My issue is that his leash is unquestionably shorter than those two other losers regardless of his on court performance.

Again, none of those guys had a good series. Bertans was bad, it was a bad matchup and he wasn't good. But maybe he could have done better in Game 7 than the combined 5 points from Patty and Marco :lmao

It's fine, Davis will be a really good role player (like he was for the Spurs during the regular season, better than Patty/Beli tbh) that will hit some big shots for a team that won't bench him at the first sign of trouble.

So you want Bertans out there going up against Harris and Barton, and getting switched on to Murray and Beasley at every possible opportunity? :lol Good luck.

We all know that Mills and Beli are defensive negatives at this point. That's not what they are on the floor to do, and Pop still needed to find offense in the limited cards he had to play. Sometimes, you stick with your guns and suffer the consequences, and that's what happened. Bertans was obviously not ready for the moment...he had the worst overall FG%, the 2nd worst 3PT%, and wasn't doing jack on defense.


obviously were just haters because patty and belli are great regular season players that show up when it matters most

You are haters because you won't shut up about it. Find a new slant and quit acting like you are Nostradamus for stating the obvious.

[timvp]

Bertans isn't strictly a small ball 4, he's a wing as well

Myth. Bertans is mobile as a four but he can't consistently play defense as a wing. He defended Derrick Rose on that one possession where they needed a three-pointer with three seconds left and suddenly Spurs fans believe Bertans is Latvian Bruce Bowen.

Mobile four; can guard perimeter player on switches well; can't defend wings full-time. Obviously, the bar is low when comparing to Mills and Belinelli but Bertans can't defend point guards better than Mills can and he can't defend guards better than Belinelli can.

[R. DeMurre]

can't defend wings full-time.

Kind of applies to DeRozan too, tbh.

[slick'81]

You are haters because you won't shut up about it. Find a new slant and quit acting like you are Nostradamus for stating the obvious.


I refuse to sit back and watch the same scenario play out next season and it will as long as long as the wombat cuck is in pops back pocket

[TD 21]

Myth. Bertans is mobile as a four but he can't consistently play defense as a wing. He defended Derrick Rose on that one possession where they needed a three-pointer with three seconds left and suddenly Spurs fans believe Bertans is Latvian Bruce Bowen.

Mobile four; can guard perimeter player on switches well; can't defend wings full-time. Obviously, the bar is low when comparing to Mills and Belinelli but Bertans can't defend point guards better than Mills can and he can't defend guards better than Belinelli can.

You missed the point. Since Belinelli stood no chance of adequately defending Beasley anyway, Bertans was worth a shot. He at least offered greater size to hopefully bother him from the side/back when inevitably beat off the dribble. Plus, he offered significantly better shooting than Belinelli.

I know he had the biggest pre/post 3-point drop in the league and seemed done for mentally, but he was overdo and in a series that tight, one game or stretch within' a game where someone like him catches fire, can swing it.

It was definitely a bad matchup though and I wouldn't be shocked if he's traded or surprised if he's gone in a year. Modern teams will place a premium on him, unlike these senile fools.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

Bertans will be packaged with another player and one of the picks this offseason.

[timvp]

You missed the point. Since Belinelli stood no chance of adequately defending Beasley anyway, Bertans was worth a shot. He at least offered greater size to hopefully bother him from the side/back when inevitably beat off the dribble.

?

1) Beasley was 2-for-11 in the final two games of the series. You wanted to give Bertans a shot to control a player who was already under control? :lol

2) I've been a harsh critic of Belinelli's defense but it improved in the final 2 or 3 games of the series. Still not good but better than Bertans would have provided.

3) Bertans never played as a full-time wing all season. You wanted Pop to go to that against a team that's strength is wing athleticism? Uh, yeah, I disagree.

4) Bertans could have had a role if Millsap didn't eat his lunch every time up the court. I don't see how the coaches can be blamed for that. Going with more Poeltl was obviously the right move.

[Pavlov]

I refuse to sit back and watch the same scenario play out next season and it will as long as long as the wombat cuck is in pops back pocketSo what are you going to do if it does?

[DAF86]

Yeah, Bertans is unhappy he didn't get to play more point guard.

lol Patty Mills getting point guard minutes to begin. :lol

Only ball handlers on the team are DeRozan and White. They should have staggered minutes, while Bertans played wing minutes over Mills and Belinelli.

[TD 21]

?

1) Beasley was 2-for-11 in the final two games of the series. You wanted to give Bertans a shot to control a player who was already under control? :lol

2) I've been a harsh critic of Belinelli's defense but it improved in the final 2 or 3 games of the series. Still not good but better than Bertans would have provided.

3) Bertans never played as a full-time wing all season. You wanted Pop to go to that against a team that's strength is wing athleticism? Uh, yeah, I disagree.

4) Bertans could have had a role if Millsap didn't eat his lunch every time up the court. I don't see how the coaches can be blamed for that. Going with more Poeltl was obviously the right move.

Oh, this is the part where you become purposely obtuse so that you can apologize for your god . . .

1) Who said anything about games 6 and 7? When he was killing Belinelli beforehand, Craig became the starting 3 (as opposed to the backup 4, which was Bertans' only natural matchup), it became worth a shot.

2) You don't know that and again, so long as it was about equal (which is to say terrible), give me the significantly better shooter, who's long overdue for progression to the mean.

3) He started playing more as a nominal wing when Poeltl started, since that pushed Gay to the backup PF. Bertans is a better athlete than Belinelli.

4) That's not the argument, nor is it that Bertans on Beasley/excising Belinelli from the rotation was some magic elixir. The point is, it was more than worth a shot, but as usual the genius decided to play favorites.

[DAF86]

You are so damn annoying and misguided. Pop played 3 bench players, Beli, Mills, Gay. Bertans cannot play guard and was never contesting guard minutes. And Bertans was not going to outplay Gay. Nuggets played 3 bigs and Bertans couldn't guard or punish any of them. It's that simple and it has nothing to do with Beli or Mills.

Belinelli and Mills are wings, Bertans is a wing too. A better one at that too.

[rjv]

?

1) Beasley was 2-for-11 in the final two games of the series. You wanted to give Bertans a shot to control a player who was already under control? :lol

2) I've been a harsh critic of Belinelli's defense but it improved in the final 2 or 3 games of the series. Still not good but better than Bertans would have provided.

3) Bertans never played as a full-time wing all season. You wanted Pop to go to that against a team that's strength is wing athleticism? Uh, yeah, I disagree.

4) Bertans could have had a role if Millsap didn't eat his lunch every time up the court. I don't see how the coaches can be blamed for that. Going with more Poeltl was obviously the right move.

spot on.

[DAF86]

1) Could have been something lost in translation. It reads as if he was talking in hypotheticals so I'm not sure it's fair to say he's unhappy with his role.

2) Nuggets were a bad matchup for him. Denver is one of the few teams left who play two physical bigs for a majority of the minutes. Bertans got bodied by their bigs to an embarrassing degree. Bertans trying to deal with Millsap was particularly pathetic.

3) Spur Fan somehow transforming this into a Mills/Belinelli related issue are being purposefully dishonest. When Bertans couldn't handle Denver's muscle, Poeltl is the player who started getting more minutes. Gay probably also got a few more minutes and was forced to defend Millsap when Bertans went full-blown Bonner and forgot to compete with the playoffs underway. Mills and Belinelli didn't play any more minutes because Bertans was getting trucked.

4) Bertans appears to be an important part of next year's team. With shooting becoming even more of an issue with the return of Murray, Bertans will be needed to stretch the floor. He's not going to play big minutes but he will play important minutes, much like this past season.

5) Bertans doesn't work as a starter. That's been proven, unfortunately. Considering he's a bench player who can't really be played when there are two physical bigs on the court, that's going to limit his playing time.

6) I think there's probably a better than 50/50 chance that this coming season will be his last with the Spurs. Bertans will probably get offers for more than he is worth as a free agent. With teams all wanting stretch bigs, someone is likely to pry him away. Considering he's a bad fit next to Poeltl (combined they don't rebound well enough defensively) and Poeltl is less likely to be overpaid, Bertans would be the one to let go.

7) Heading into the draft and free agency, the Spurs had to already be planning on bringing in players to compete with Bertans for minutes. If there's any fire to this smoke, this should make that even more of a priority.

How? I can give you Mills (although I would never have him as the main ball handler on any lineup), but Belinelli played the entire season at SF. That's Bertans position.

[RC_Drunkford]

so nobody here gon be calling him a diva for demanding more minutes?:lol

[timvp]

Oh, this is the part where you become purposely obtuse so that you can apologize for your god . . .

1) Who said anything about games 6 and 7? When he was killing Belinelli beforehand, Craig became the starting 3 (as opposed to the backup 4, which was Bertans' only natural matchup), it became worth a shot.

2) You don't know that and again, so long as it was about equal (which is to say terrible), give me the significantly better shooter, who's long overdue for progression to the mean.

3) He started playing more as a nominal wing when Poeltl started, since that pushed Gay to the backup PF. Bertans is a better athlete than Belinelli.

4) That's not the argument, nor is it that Bertans on Beasley/excising Belinelli from the rotation was some magic elixir. The point is, it was more than worth a shot, but as usual the genius decided to play favorites.

1) It became worth a shot to slow a player who was 2-for-11?

2) As if Belinelli wasn't due?

3) Maybe nominal wing on offense but Gay still defended the quicker forward. And then had to defend Millsap because Bertans couldn't.

4) It was worth a shot to play Bertans as a full-time wing for the first time in his career?

[timvp]

How? I can give you Mills (although I would never have him as the main ball handler on any lineup), but Belinelli played the entire season at SF. That's Bertans position.

No he didn't. No he's not.

[Dex]

Oh, this is the part where you become purposely obtuse so that you can apologize for your god . . .

1) Who said anything about games 6 and 7? When he was killing Belinelli beforehand, Craig became the starting 3 (as opposed to the backup 4, which was Bertans' only natural matchup), it became worth a shot.

2) You don't know that and again, so long as it was about equal (which is to say terrible), give me the significantly better shooter, who's long overdue for progression to the mean.

3) He started playing more as a nominal wing when Poeltl started, since that pushed Gay to the backup PF. Bertans is a better athlete than Belinelli.

4) That's not the argument, nor is it that Bertans on Beasley/excising Belinelli from the rotation was some magic elixir. The point is, it was more than worth a shot, but as usual the genius decided to play favorites.

Hindsight bias is bias.

It's easy to say "well, maybe we should have thrown this guy out there and MAYBE he would have done better".

Hell, maybe Lonnie could've helped with a few more minutes.

Maybe Cunningham could've gotten in front of Harris when he made that floater with the Spurs down 2 in the final minutes.

Maybe the Spurs would have won the series if Manu hadn't retired.

Maybe those are all bad ideas and pipe dreams.

You don't know how Bertans playing more would have helped, just like none of us do. Instead of losing Game 7 by four, maybe we lose by ten. It's easy to stab at possibilities and act like you are right.

I know some of you feel like I am a Pop apologist, but he doesn't have a crystal ball that tells the future. He does the best he can with the data and intuition he has on hand...and that got us a lot further this season than most people expected (cue the "we should have tanked" crowd)

[TD 21]

1) It became worth a shot to slow a player who was 2-for-11?

2) As if Belinelli wasn't due?

3) Maybe nominal wing on offense but Gay still defended the quicker forward. And then had to defend Millsap because Bertans couldn't.

4) It was worth a shot to play Bertans as a full-time wing for the first time in his career?

1). Again, it should have been tried sooner and even when Beasley cooled off, once again, Bertans' superior shooting/being due was still worth a shot.

2) Less so and not as good a shooter to begin with.

3) Not always. If it was a strong PF/big wing who could create their own shot, Bertans would often defend the SF.

4) What's with you and these rigid and outdated positional designations? The ideal defensive assignment for Bertans is spot up wings, like Craig. Whether that player is playing 3, 4, even 2, doesn't really matter.




Hindsight bias is bias.

I said this mid series, genius. Check my post history.

[DAF86]

This, in particular, bugged me too.

There are posters with a particular agenda (hint: there are some in this thread) who want to turn everything into a Mills/Beli bash-fest and act like that taints everything else the Spurs did right this season.

We get it. Mills is overpaid. Beli is a bad defender. This isn't necessarily a hot take.

That being said, they were both net positives over the course of the season. The bench was productive, and they both played significant minutes which put the Spurs in the position to make the playoffs.

Mills was injured and put a terrible shooting display against Denver, and Beli did pretty much what you would expect: he had some good games, had some bad games, and got abused on defense. They didn't bring Marco in to stop anybody on the perimeter...they brought him in to shoot, and he did so at a .421+ clip before wilting in Game 7 (on three shots in limited minutes).

The agenda pushing has been taken to a new level now that Denver got ousted.

Not as positive as Bertans. Actually no other Spur was as positive as Bertans.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019/on-off/

And guess who had the best rating on the playoffs too? Yeah, you got it.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019/on-off/

[slick'81]

Relax guys lets see what bertans brings this season

[Pavlov]

lol Patty Mills getting point guard minutes to begin. :lol

Only ball handlers on the team are DeRozan and White. They should have staggered minutes, while Bertans played wing minutes over Mills and Belinelli.:lol wing Bertans

He's not a wing. He'll never be a wing no matter where he plays.

[DAF86]

No he didn't.

So was Forbes the SF on those Mills, Belinelli, Forbes lineups Pop would use? Also, is there really a difference between SG and SF?


No he's not.

Who would you rather have Bertans defending, Millsap on the low block or Barton on the perimeter?

[Slippy]

so nobody here gon be calling him a diva for demanding more minutes?:lol

Lol Or complain for winning ball.

[SpursRussia]

The problem with Mills and why it comes up in every thread, is that not only he is overpaid, he is also overplayed, and it will remain so next season. Instead of giving his minutes to young guys, Lonnie, Derrick or DJ his minutes will keep in mid 20s. Hell, give them to Forbes, he does all the same things, but better, being much cheaper and younger, with room to grow.

Pop inexplicably pets this wombat, and even though his contract is tradable with sacrificing some assets, PATFO will not even consider such option and keep young players rotting on the bench. Giving Mills minutes over any other guard from the roster will not win any more games for the Spurs over the course of RS of playoffs, but will definitely stun the development of the younger players.

Yes, Mills might not have taken minutes from Davis this year, but it is the whole Pop's approach provokes this kind of talk, time to stop the madness and move on from these guys, this isn't 2014 anymore

[Dex]

Not as positive as Bertans. Actually no other Spur was as positive as Bertans.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019/on-off/

And guess who had the best rating on the playoffs too? Yeah, you got it.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019/on-off/

According to those advanced stats (assuming that you are looking at Net Offensive Rating, which is really what matters)...the Spurs should have started Walker, Bertans, Pondexter, Cunningham, Motiejunas in the playoffs. And Aldridge and DeRozan are basically useless.

It's almost as if advanced stats don't tell the whole story...and there is no reason to play a guy more minutes if he can't hit the broadside of a barn.

[DAF86]

:lol wing Bertans

He's not a wing. He'll never be a wing no matter where he plays.

Oh yeah? If he's not a wing, he's a bigman, right? What type of bigman tools does he provide?

On offense, is he better at posting up or shooting? Is he better at setting screens or putting the ball on the floor and passing?

On defense, is he better at playing postup defense or at moving his feet out on the perimeter? Does he provide bigman rebounding rate or perimeter player rebounding rate?

[Pavlov]

According to those advanced stats (assuming that you are looking at Net Offensive Rating, which is really what matters...the Spurs should have started Walker, Bertans, Pondexter, Cunningham, Motiejunas in the playoffs.

It's almost as if advanced stats don't tell the whole story...and there is no reason to play a guy more minutes if he can't hit the broadside of a barn.This is how agendas work. Dude's gonna be retconning Bertans at the wing all summer.

[DAF86]

According to those advanced stats (assuming that you are looking at Net Offensive Rating, which is really what matters)...the Spurs should have started Walker, Bertans, Pondexter, Cunningham, Motiejunas in the playoffs. And Aldridge and DeRozan are basically useless.

It's almost as if advanced stats don't tell the whole story...and there is no reason to play a guy more minutes if he can't hit the broadside of a barn.

You were the one that brought "net positives" up, tbh.

FTR, Belinelli wasn't a net positive during the regular season.

[Pavlov]

Oh yeah? If he's not a wing, he's a bigman, right? What type of bigman tools does he provide?

On offense, is he better at posting up or shooting? Is he better at setting screens or putting the ball on the floor and passing?

On defense, is he better at playing postup defense or at moving his feet out on the perimeter? Does he provide bigman rebounding rate or perimeter player rebounding rate?He's best used opening up the offense from the perimeter playing the 4. He's really not much good at anything else to matter.

Retcon away!:lol

[slick'81]

You were the one that brought "net positives" up, tbh.

FTR, Belinelli wasn't a net positive during the regular season.


:lmao Hes trying hard though

[Russ]

Bertans unhappy?

This reminds me of an old story told by UT basketball coach Abe Lemons.

A player walked into his office and said, "Coach, I'm just not happy."

Coach Lemons thought for a moment and then waved an imaginary magic wand over the player's head.

"Well, happiness to you," said Lemons smiling.

[Dex]

You were the one that brought "net positives" up, tbh.

FTR, Belinelli wasn't a net positive during the regular season.


:lmao Hes trying hard though

I used "net positive" as a general term...you are the ones who want to hide behind analytics to defend your shitty arguments. :lol

By the way, those same analytics say that Bertans was the Spurs best player this season...and Quincy fucking Pondexter was our best player in the playoffs.

But, like I said....agendas.

[slick'81]

I used "net positive" as a general term...you are the ones who want to hide behind analytics to defend your shitty arguments. :lol

By the way, those same analytics say that Bertans was the Spurs best player this season...and Quincy fucking Pondexter was our best player in the playoffs.

But, like I said....agendas.

love ya dex :flag:

[DAF86]

So you want Bertans out there going up against Harris and Barton, and getting switched on to Murray and Beasley at every possible opportunity? :lol Good luck.

Yeah, because we did so much better with Mills and Belinelli on those situations. :lmao


We all know that Mills and Beli are defensive negatives at this point. That's not what they are on the floor to do, and Pop still needed to find offense in the limited cards he had to play. Sometimes, you stick with your guns and suffer the consequences, and that's what happened. Bertans was obviously not ready for the moment...he had the worst overall FG%, the 2nd worst 3PT%, and wasn't doing jack on defense.

What were in the floor for, miss threes? Bertans could have done that while not being a complete traffic come on the perimeter, tbh.


You are haters because you won't shut up about it. Find a new slant and quit acting like you are Nostradamus for stating the obvious.

Stating the obvious? Is preferring to have Bertans playing SF over Belinelli stating the obvious? (It should be, but apparently here it isn't)

Also, what's wrong with being vocal about the things you think your team should do to improve? That seems like perfectly good and healthy fandom, tbh.

[Texas_Ranger]

i am pretty sure it's not tough to replace his shitty 3 points per game in the playoffs.

[Dex]

Yeah, because we did so much better with Mills and Belinelli on those situations. :lmao



What were in the floor for, miss threes? Bertans could have done that while not being a complete traffic come on the perimeter, tbh.



Stating the obvious? Is preferring to have Bertans playing SF over Belinelli stating the obvious? (It should be, but apparently here it isn't)

Also, what's wrong with being vocal about the things you think your team should do to improve? That seems like perfectly good and healthy fandom, tbh.




love ya dex :flag:

:bobo

SpursTalk wouldn't be fun without any back & forth. None of us are right...we all just care about our team.

[DAF86]

Myth. Bertans is mobile as a four but he can't consistently play defense as a wing. He defended Derrick Rose on that one possession where they needed a three-pointer with three seconds left and suddenly Spurs fans believe Bertans is Latvian Bruce Bowen.

Mobile four; can guard perimeter player on switches well; can't defend wings full-time. Obviously, the bar is low when comparing to Mills and Belinelli but Bertans can't defend point guards better than Mills can and he can't defend guards better than Belinelli can.

Who would you rather have defending a guy like Barton or Craig, Bertans or Mills/Belinelli?

[DAF86]

I used "net positive" as a general term...you are the ones who want to hide behind analytics to defend your shitty arguments. :lol

By the way, those same analytics say that Bertans was the Spurs best player this season...and Quincy fucking Pondexter was our best player in the playoffs.

But, like I said....agendas.

"Hide behind analytics" :lol That sounds like a hardcore religious guy saying "hide behind science", tbh. :lol

What should we do then, argue subjectively without providing any sort of data?

Cunningham played only garbage minutes, I don't know why you keep bringing him up.

On/off is a useful stat that should be looked at with a good enough sample size and adjusting by role. Bertans having a better on/off rating than Aldridge, obvioulsy, doesn't mean he's a better player than LA. It does mean, however, that Bertans is undoubtedly a valuable player for the role he plays. Another way to look at it is that it might mean that Bertans is better at being a role player, than Aldridge at being a first option, for example.

[Dex]

"Hide behind analytics" :lol That sounds like a hardcore religious guy saying "hide behind science", tbh. :lol

What should we do then, argue subjectively without providing any sort of data?

Cunningham played only garbage minutes, I don't know why you keep bringing him up. Which is why Cunningham, Pondexter, and perhaps Bertans look better on paper than their actual production showed.

On/off is a useful stat that should be looked at with a good enough sample size and adjusting by role. Bertans having a better on/off rating than Aldridge, obvioulsy, doesn't mean he's a better player than him. It does mean, however, that Bertans is undoubtedly a valuable player for the role he plays. Another way to look at it is that it might mean that Bertans is better at being a role player, than Aldridge at being a first option, for example.

On/Off data is useful. In fact, the On/Off charts that timvp posts are some of the more interesting data points we get in the season.

But the data is, and can be, skewed...especially by sample size and/or role. Just in the same way that the data shows Cunningham and Pondexter were "useful" when they were far from that.

I'm not arguing that Bertans wasn't useful over the course of the season...his on/off numbers, shooting percentage, and other statistics support that.

But...he was put in a tough spot against Denver. He is not big enough to guard Denver's bigs, and he is not fast enough to guard Denver's wings. This became quickly evident by the eye-test...and frankly, you can crunch numbers all you want but that doesn't change what you see on the court. Basketball isn't a Calculus exam.

He made matters worse by missing his shots, which mostly seemed to be good, open shots.

As a coach, you have to make a choice...and the guy who can't defend his opponent and isn't making shots gets an easy hook.

I still think Bertans is, and will be, a valuable player next season and hopefully next post-season....but in a sample size of 7 games, I also don't blame Pop for making the decision that he did.

[DAF86]

He's best used opening up the offense from the perimeter playing the 4. He's really not much good at anything else to matter.

Retcon away!:lol

Yeah, and I guess Belinelli is best used opening up the offense playing the 3 and Mills playing the 1.

That's some top level basketball analysis there, tbh. :lol

[slick'81]

Yeah, and I guess Belinelli is best used opening up the offense playing the 3 and Mills playing the 1.

That's some top level basketball analysis there, tbh. :lol


theres a reason i have pavlov blcked :hat

[DAF86]

On/Off data is useful. In fact, the On/Off charts that timvp posts are some of the more interesting data points we get in the season.

But the data is, and can be, skewed...especially by sample size and/or role. Just in the same way that the data shows Cunningham and Pondexter were "useful" when they were far from that.

I'm not arguing that Bertans wasn't useful over the course of the season...his on/off numbers, shooting percentage, and other statistics support that.

But...he was put in a tough spot against Denver. He is not big enough to guard Denver's bigs, and he is not fast enough to guard Denver's wings. This became quickly evident by the eye-test...and frankly, you can crunch numbers all you want but that doesn't change what you see on the court. Basketball isn't a Calculus exam.

He made matters worse by missing his shots, which mostly seemed to be good, open shots.

As a coach, you have to make a choice...and the guy who can't defend his opponent and isn't making shots gets an easy hook.

I still think Bertans is, and will be, a valuable player next season and hopefully next post-season....but in a sample size of 7 games, I also don't blame Pop for making the decision that he did.

Bertans is a better overall defender than, both, Mills and Belinelli. Metrics support that fact. He's also mobile (and long) enough to be a better option defending perimeter players too. I don't know why folks have such a hard time observing this obvious fact. Maybe it's the fact that Bertans is mobile (and tries hard) enough to many times be scored over, so in the brain of most it looks like he's constantly getting shit on, forgetting the times where he does get the stop. Not to mention the fact that in the type of plays where Bertans gets scored over, Mills and Belinelli aren't even in the picture, because they are left behind everytime.

[Mugen]

Hindsight bias is bias.

It's easy to say "well, maybe we should have thrown this guy out there and MAYBE he would have done better".

Hell, maybe Lonnie could've helped with a few more minutes.

Maybe Cunningham could've gotten in front of Harris when he made that floater with the Spurs down 2 in the final minutes.

Maybe the Spurs would have won the series if Manu hadn't retired.

Maybe those are all bad ideas and pipe dreams.

You don't know how Bertans playing more would have helped, just like none of us do. Instead of losing Game 7 by four, maybe we lose by ten. It's easy to stab at possibilities and act like you are right.

I know some of you feel like I am a Pop apologist, but he doesn't have a crystal ball that tells the future. He does the best he can with the data and intuition he has on hand...and that got us a lot further this season than most people expected (cue the "we should have tanked" crowd)

Dex, you're my guy but it wasn't hindsight bias...

A large portion of us were calling Patty and Beli being absolutely useless in a Denver series and they went ahead and shit the bed, with both playing more than DWhite when it mattered most in Game 7....

Don't call it hindsight when people say beforehand that "Pop is going to shit the bed by relying on his fat koala too much this series" and Pop goes and does exactly that :lol

[Pavlov]

Yeah, and I guess Belinelli is best used opening up the offense playing the 3 and Mills playing the 1.

That's some top level basketball analysis there, tbh. :lolNot much else matters expect their shooting.

Bertans is the same as them tbh. When they aren't shooting well, they're practically worthless.

But please continue your retcon crusade all summer. You'll never stop until you're proved right.

Which will never actually happen.

Because it's all over and done with.

[FkLA]

(a)Bertans got bullied by Millsap and wasn't hitting shots.
(b)Wombat+Belli couldn't stay in front of anybody and didn't hit shots.

So basically the Popsuckers are simultaneously saying that Bertans didn't deserve another chance because of (a) and that giving Wombat+Belli their coach's pet minutes was fine despite (b)?It's like the White/Wombat discussion all over again. :lol

[DAF86]

Not much else matters expect their shooting.

Bertans is the same as them tbh. When they aren't shooting well, they're practically worthless.

Except Bertans is a vastly superior defender than both. Supported by metrics and the eyeballs of people who don't have theirs deep up Pop's ass, tbh.

[Pavlov]

(a)Bertans got bullied by Millsap and wasn't hitting shots.
(b)Wombat+Belli couldn't stay in front of anybody and didn't hit shots.

So basically the Popsuckers are simultaneously saying that Bertans didn't deserve another chance because of (a) and that giving Wombat+Belli their coach's pet minutes was fine despite (b)?It's like the White/Wombat discussion all over again. :lolI wouldn't have cared if any of them were benched since they weren't hitting their shots.

[Pavlov]

Except Bertans is a vastly superior defender than both. Supported by metrics and the eyeballs of people who don't have theirs deep up Pop's ass, tbh.:lol VASTLY superior at guarding shooting guards!

Because I said so!


You will never let your agenda go. As predicted.


lol

[DAF86]

I wouldn't have cared if any of them were benched since they weren't hitting their shots.

Since it would have been Pop the one that made the move, of course you wouldn't have cared. Your sole role on the Spurs section of this forum is to act like Pop never made a mistake in his life.

[Dex]

Dex, you're my guy but it wasn't hindsight bias...

A large portion of us were calling Patty and Beli being absolutely useless in a Denver series and they went ahead and shit the bed, with both playing more than DWhite when it mattered most in Game 7....

Don't call it hindsight when people say beforehand that "Pop is going to shit the bed by relying on his fat koala too much this series" and Pop goes and does exactly that :lol

Saying Mills got overplayed is an understatement. I just don't know what other options Pop had. Yes, White could have done better than Mills and probably deserved the chance but...Pop sticks with his veterans for better or worse (and in this case, it was probably for worse).

EWhite has a bright future, but he shit the bed in Game 7 (along with most of the team). I still don't blame Pop for benching him after the way he started.

Forbes was already playing more minutes than any NBA team should ask him to be playing.

Bertans isn't a guard, so he doesn't even belong in this conversation.

Murray was somewhere rehabbing and posting on Instagram.

Lonnie is a good prospect, but...let's be real here. He wasn't ready for that.

It's not like Pop had other options to go to...sometimes, you just have to go with Plan D and hope for the best. That's what happened and the results were predictable.

[DAF86]

:lol VASTLY superior at guarding shooting guards!

Because I said so!


You will never let your agenda go. As predicted.


lol

Ok. No, he isn't. Because you say so. :lol

[r0drig0lac]

(a)Bertans got bullied by Millsap and wasn't hitting shots.
(b)Wombat+Belli couldn't stay in front of anybody and didn't hit shots.

So basically the Popsuckers are simultaneously saying that Bertans didn't deserve another chance because of (a) and that giving Wombat+Belli their coach's pet minutes was fine despite (b)?It's like the White/Wombat discussion all over again. :lol

this

[Spurtacular]

I jumped on the Bertans train for a spell. I even said there was an outside shot he could be an all star. But I don't feel bad for the guy. He played a scared bunny every time the ball was swung to him. Constantly seeing a 6'11 guy with skills dribble away from the basket with no intent on scoring was really hard to watch.

[Joseph Kony]

Finances are just a way to provide for the family with the rest of their lives. It has never been a priority for me

lolwut :lol

[FkLA]

Saying Mills got overplayed is an understatement. I just don't know what other options Pop had. Yes, White could have done better than Mills and probably deserved the chance but...Pop sticks with his veterans for better or worse (and in this case, it was probably for worse).

Oh shucks, someone should've told me that that's just how Pop is.

Going with the veteran, even though he's a vastly inferior player, is definitely the right move now that I know that's just how Pop is!


EWhite has a bright future, but he shit the bed in Game 7 (along with most of the team). I still don't blame Pop for benching him after the way he started.


:lol Yet at the same time you don't blame Pop for giving his pet wombat guaranteed minutes despite shitting the bed all series long on both sides of the ball--not just Game 7.

[Spurtacular]

Since it would have been Pop the one that made the move, of course you wouldn't have cared. Your sole role on the Spurs section of this forum is to act like Pop never made a mistake in his life.

Chump's bread and butter is sperm shielding for persons in power.

[Joseph Kony]

Davis is a nice regular season player but he couldn't hit shit post all star break and was atrocious against Denver. He is definitely a better option than Mills or Belineli, but Mills is irrelevant to bring up in this discussion anyway. I would prefer him staying over keeping Gay, but honestly he probably has more value as trade bait because I'm sure the majority of the league would love to have a 6'10" sniper. I would prefer the Spurs look to trade him and one of our first round picks to either move up or nab an actual SF from another team

[Dex]

Oh shucks, someone should've told me that that's just how Pop is.

Going with the veteran, even though he's a vastly inferior player, is definitely the right move now that I know that's just how Pop is!


:lol Yet at the same time you don't blame Pop for giving his pet wombat guaranteed minutes despite shitting the bed all series long on both sides of the ball--not just Game 7.

I'm starting to feel like the "wombat" schtick is giving up your alts, tbh.

Otherwise, yes...any coach worth his weight in salt is going to stick with his veteran who is struggling over a young, unproven player who is struggling when push comes to shove. And after White's spectacular 36-point game...Denver adjusted and he never figured it out. He was hurting the team more than he was helping in the first half of Game 7, and Pop made the right call....as evidenced by the fact that the team almost overcame a 15-point deficit with Mills on the floor.

[RVSTX]

Give me DAVIS! ILL TAKE THE BIG GUY PLAYING THE 3, AND AT LEAST SHOOTING THE 3, OVER THE GUY THAT CANT SHOOT THE 3, AND PLAYS MEDIOCRE DEFENSE!!!

[Spurtacular]

"We hoped to win in the first round and then move further. During the season, we sometimes played so well that we got the confidence that, if we continue, we could get to the finals and win. It must be said, however, that it is difficult to keep this level throughout the season.”

[phxspurfan]

The ninja Bert deserved more. As I re-watched game 7 last night I thought Bert should have been played more. Instead Pop went with Patty and Forbes, Gay, DeMar and LMA. Since DeMar will need all the minutes to justify his 30mill, and he basically plays SF, and LMA plays PF/C and while Gay is playing well, Bert is going to have a tough road here in SA.

[phxspurfan]

Davis is a nice regular season player but he couldn't hit shit post all star break

Also this. Bert u gotta be less Bonner more Black Mamba. Gotta hit those Js nawimsayin

[GreekSpursfan]

Davis got exposed in the playoffs early on and Pop finished him off. His slow af defensive awareness did him in.

[look_at_g_shred]

Davis got exposed in the playoffs early on and Pop finished him off. His slow af defensive awareness did him in.
Y didn’t he finish Mills and Beli off? I mean it’s game 7, you see that they aren’t doing shit so why not at least try Lonnie? What do you have to lose? At the very least he gets playoff experience going forward. Smdh

[slick'81]

Y didn’t he finish Mills and Beli off? I mean it’s game 7, you see that they aren’t doing shit so why not at least try Lonnie? What do you have to lose? At the very least he gets playoff experience going forward. Smdh


Just thank god pau asked out or hed still be ahead of poodle tbh

[superbigtime]

I think he'll get better.

[8FOR!3]

For as much as finances don't matter he sure is getting paid market value at the very least. There's things I like about him, he has a competitive attitude but he doesn't really show it on the floor sometimes. At times he could be a lot more involved when he's out there, most of the time he's not doing anything to keep him on the floor in a playoff rotation sense.

[jbspurs]

I really like Bertans but guys he can’t defend for shit lol teams give the ball to whoever he’s guarding most of the time


You sure you're not talking about Patty Mills?

[BackHome]

The problem with Bert is Poop is in his head you can tell he is playing not to make a mistake vs just balling and not thinking.

[FkLA]

I'm starting to feel like the "wombat" schtick is giving up your alts, tbh.

Otherwise, yes...any coach worth his weight in salt is going to stick with his veteran who is struggling over a young, unproven player who is struggling when push comes to shove. And after White's spectacular 36-point game...Denver adjusted and he never figured it out. He was hurting the team more than he was helping in the first half of Game 7, and Pop made the right call....as evidenced by the fact that the team almost overcame a 15-point deficit with Mills on the floor.

Oh god, not this shit again. White was hurting the team the first half of Game 7 so let's bench him for a vastly inferior player that hurt the team all series long just because he's a "veteran". Great move, obviously. I'm sure Wombat's stellar play (a whopping 0 points, 1 FGA, and terrible defense) was the reason the Spurs woke up in the 2nd half and almost came back. Not to mention all the little things he does that don't even show up on the boxscore!

[FkLA]

Oh and I don't have alts. The reason the wombat nickname has caught on is because it fits that overpaid, overplayed, coach's pet perfectly.

[timvp]

Oh and I don't have alts. The reason the wombat nickname has caught on is because it fits that overpaid, overplayed, coach's pet perfectly.

Tbh, I thought you loved Mills. Guess things changed . . .

[FkLA]

Tbh, I thought you loved Mills. Guess things changed . . .

He hasn't been worth a shit since the Clippers series. Got in amazing shape for a year or two then got fat again.

Although tbf the real culprit in all of this is Pop for showing him favoritism.

[Mugen]

White, Mills, and Beli were all trash in Game 7, nobody is really disputing that....

I just find issue when the apologists say well hindsight is 20/20 when Beli and Mills were literal trash the entire series :lol

I don't even care about Game 7, Spurs lost that game in the 1st quarter. They lost the series when Pop decided to play the trash duo heavy minutes at the same time in Game 2 (3rd quarter) then again in Game 4 (2nd quarter)......

Don't give me that bs about hindsight, just say Pop had some shitty coaching moments in the series and that his mistakes were what a lot of posters predicted he'd fuck up on...

[phxspurfan]

just say Pop had some shitty coaching moments in the series and that his mistakes were what a lot of posters predicted he'd fuck up on...

Very true. Every Spur fan watching knew Denver was going to come back in game 2 when Pop put the bullshit lineup in. He does it every year at critical times, tinkering/playing favorites when he has a proven, successful lineup ready to be deployed.

[Pavlov]

Since it would have been Pop the one that made the move, of course you wouldn't have cared. Your sole role on the Spurs section of this forum is to act like Pop never made a mistake in his life.Nope, he's made plenty of mistakes.

Your sole role is to act like you are completely perfect in your basketball evaluations.

Bertans sucked in these particular playoffs. Nothing you post is ever going to change that.

Ever.

Sorry.

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

Don't blame him at all. Losers like Beli and Patty were getting all you can eat minutes by the old man even when they were having a terrible series (cheered on by the Suckers of course)....

Bertans didn't play great but his leash was short as hell compared to those two...

He'd do great on another team that knew fully how to utilize him and didn't bench him for midgets at the first sign of trouble...

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

Oh, this is the part where you become purposely obtuse so that you can apologize for your god . . .

1) Who said anything about games 6 and 7? When he was killing Belinelli beforehand, Craig became the starting 3 (as opposed to the backup 4, which was Bertans' only natural matchup), it became worth a shot.

2) You don't know that and again, so long as it was about equal (which is to say terrible), give me the significantly better shooter, who's long overdue for progression to the mean.

3) He started playing more as a nominal wing when Poeltl started, since that pushed Gay to the backup PF. Bertans is a better athlete than Belinelli.

4) That's not the argument, nor is it that Bertans on Beasley/excising Belinelli from the rotation was some magic elixir. The point is, it was more than worth a shot, but as usual the genius decided to play favorites.

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

Dex, you're my guy but it wasn't hindsight bias...

A large portion of us were calling Patty and Beli being absolutely useless in a Denver series and they went ahead and shit the bed, with both playing more than DWhite when it mattered most in Game 7....

Don't call it hindsight when people say beforehand that "Pop is going to shit the bed by relying on his fat koala too much this series" and Pop goes and does exactly that :lol

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

White, Mills, and Beli were all trash in Game 7, nobody is really disputing that....

I just find issue when the apologists say well hindsight is 20/20 when Beli and Mills were literal trash the entire series :lol

I don't even care about Game 7, Spurs lost that game in the 1st quarter. They lost the series when Pop decided to play the trash duo heavy minutes at the same time in Game 2 (3rd quarter) then again in Game 4 (2nd quarter)......

Don't give me that bs about hindsight, just say Pop had some shitty coaching moments in the series and that his mistakes were what a lot of posters predicted he'd fuck up on...

Yup

[Seventyniner]

Tbh, I thought you loved Mills. Guess things changed . . .

Parker left.

[spurraider21]

How? I can give you Mills (although I would never have him as the main ball handler on any lineup), but Belinelli played the entire season at SF. That's Bertans position.
you know that isn't true. we've even discussed this exact point

[spurraider21]

Tbh, I thought you loved Mills. Guess things changed . . .
he just hated parker tbh, so mills was obviously god for a time.

dude even got himself temp-banned for posting a thousand threads about ray mccallum beating better than parker

[DAF86]

you know that isn't true. we've even discussed this exact point

And how the hell do you know what I know? :lol

Dude shoots threes, handles the ball, makes good passes, defends the perimeter better than the post, rebounds at a perimeter player rate. But somehow he's a bigman, not a wing. Fuck Logic, tbh. :lol

[spurraider21]

And how the hell do you know what I know? :lol

Dude shoots threes, handles the ball, makes good passes, defends the perimeter better than the post, rebounds at a perimeter player rate. But somehow he's a bigman, not a wing. Fuck Logic, tbh. :lol
i know because we have discussed this exact point in the recent past and i dont believe you have alzheimers

bertans played 4% of his minutes at SF this year, 0% last year, and 7% his rookie season. he's played 1% of his career playoff minutes at the 3. calling that "his position" is completely disingenuous at best and an outright lie at worst

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bertada01.html

[DAF86]

i know because we have discussed this exact point in the recent past and i dont believe you have alzheimers

bertans played 4% of his minutes at SF this year, 0% last year, and 7% his rookie season. he's played 1% of his career playoff minutes at the 3. calling that "his position" is completely disingenuous at best and an outright lie at worst

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bertada01.html

We might have discussed it. That doesn't mean you changed my mind or something, tbh. :lol

And yeah, I know Bertans has played mostly PF. He should be playing SF, that's what I'm saying.

Mills played most of his minutes at PG, that doesn't make him a PG, tbh.

Also, those % of time played at each postion are always bullshit. How do you objectively quantify when a guy is playing SF or SG? You can't. It's all subjective, specially on today's positionless basketball.

[spurraider21]

its not a matter of changing your mind. its a question of fact. you're calling a position where he has played 4% of his career minutes "his position." that's objectively incorrect, not subject to your persuasion

he has spent nearly as many minutes of his NBA career playing center as he has playing small forward :lmao

i mean i could kick and scream and say that PF is marco's position...

[phxspurfan]

Bert is a SF. He can’t bang with the PF/C types.

[TheGreatYacht]

Can't believe I'm now just seeing this...

This useless scrub has the audacity to cry when he's possibly the biggest choker in playoff history?!?! I've never seen dropoffs in shooting percentage as bad as this 9 fingered freak has had.

He's far from being Spurs material. He's an egotistical bum, but many here give him a pass because he's white. Imagine if an African American went on social media or the local media to complain about a meaningless 3pt contest invite. The meltdowns here would be something else. He's Austin Daye but shittier and overpaid.

Trade him to some scrub team like the Magic who had a crush on this loser.

[TimDunkem]

Package him with a pick and move up in the draft if anyone is dumb enough to trade for him.

[gambit1990]

he’ll be happier when he’s on the warriors in a couples years.

[kobyz]

He should demand a trade to the pelicans to go play with his brother...

[RC_Drunkford]

Apparently Bertans thinks he's overpaid




"Looking at the statistics, they probably over payed me, because very rarely does an NBA club pay for what it expects in the future, not for what has been done.
I don't think I did something in the first two years. What I am able to do is I had an additional motivation to earn what they paid me in the long term."

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/davis-bertans-feels-spurs-overpaid-him

[tholdren]

Can't believe I'm now just seeing this...

This useless scrub has the audacity to cry when he's possibly the biggest choker in playoff history?!?! I've never seen dropoffs in shooting percentage as bad as this 9 fingered freak has had.

He's far from being Spurs material. He's an egotistical bum, but many here give him a pass because he's white. Imagine if an African American went on social media or the local media to complain about a meaningless 3pt contest invite. The meltdowns here would be something else. He's Austin Daye but shittier and overpaid.

Trade him to some scrub team like the Magic who had a crush on this loser.

Lol racism

[Chinook]

Apparently Bertans thinks he's overpaid


[/INDENT]https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/davis-bertans-feels-spurs-overpaid-him

He'd certainly look a lot better on a $20M/4 deal right now. But his pay really isn't a problem. He's fine for what he does. Pop just needs to make sure he has legit competition for his spot. Same with Beli, though Lonnie will probably be fine against Marco.

[dbestpro]

Can't believe I'm now just seeing this...

This useless scrub has the audacity to cry when he's possibly the biggest choker in playoff history?!?! I've never seen dropoffs in shooting percentage as bad as this 9 fingered freak has had.

He's far from being Spurs material. He's an egotistical bum, but many here give him a pass because he's white. Imagine if an African American went on social media or the local media to complain about a meaningless 3pt contest invite. The meltdowns here would be something else. He's Austin Daye but shittier and overpaid.

Trade him to some scrub team like the Magic who had a crush on this loser.

They should put an asterisk on every comment you make on white players. Your past comments kind of null and void anything you say about your white brothers.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Can't believe I'm now just seeing this...

This useless scrub has the audacity to cry when he's possibly the biggest choker in playoff history?!?! I've never seen dropoffs in shooting percentage as bad as this 9 fingered freak has had.

He's far from being Spurs material. He's an egotistical bum, but many here give him a pass because he's white. Imagine if an African American went on social media or the local media to complain about a meaningless 3pt contest invite. The meltdowns here would be something else. He's Austin Daye but shittier and overpaid.

Trade him to some scrub team like the Magic who had a crush on this loser.

Your takes are, as always, subpar and pathetic - when are you going to grow up?

you are like the cancer of this site

[SAGirl]

I agree with Davis that the team paid him for what they expected out of him rather than what he had done those first couple of seasons. I am just unsure what more he can do that he didn’t do last season.