Uncle Dennis Finally Talks! “They didn’t believe Kawhi couldn’t play and that caused a lack of trust"

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

All i take from this is that this uncle thing didn't articulate not a single word of gratitude to an organization who developed his nephew in an enviroment playing alongside three first ballot HOFs. Tell me one promising young player that in the history of bball had that privilege?Kevin mchale

[Twisted_Dawg]

:lol no mention of the Spurs medical staff getting fired? Have those guys been fired yet for mismanaging this whole thing?

Instead of firing them, why doesn't Kawhi sue them for malpractice? BOTH sides subject to discovery, lengthy depositions, etc. Bring in ALL the doctors and therapists that saw Kawhi. Then a jury trial to determine the truth. Some how I dont think Kawhi would want any part of this process. He couldn't hide or be shielded by his group.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Who was the player that called and lead that team meeting, tbh, can't remember?

Parker, if reports are true in this gigantic X-File Matrix.

[TheGreatYacht]

You are by far the worst troll and stupidest person on this site.

Pop has shit out more basketball knowledge or "know how" than you'll ever possess in your life.

Please, log out of this site and run into some on coming traffic....
End your life buddy. It doesn't get any better.

[GreekSpursfan]

Reggie Lewis played with 3 first ballot HOF and 4 total in his rookie year


Worthy played with 2 first ballot HOF and 3 total HOF(Mccadoo should have been 1st ballot) and Barkley played with 2 first ballot and 4 total in his rookie year.

I should have added "and he was an ungrateful mofo", my bad. That phrase limits the number to zero. Uncle-Kawhi combo the first to do so

[GreekSpursfan]

Kevin mchale

I should have added "and he was an ungrateful mofo", my bad. That phrase limits the number to zero.

[J_Paco]

End your life buddy. It doesn't get any better.

Nah, you first. Then I won't have to come here and see your whiny, hypocritical ass prop up Leonard and disrespect a HOF coach on a endless basis.

We get it, you hate Pop/R.C. (as if this team had a championship pedigree before them) and love the traitor.

Does your material go any further or are you gonna suck off Leonard until he retires and keep that avi of that woman beater forever?

[J_Paco]

:lol no mention of the Spurs medical staff getting fired? Have those guys been fired yet for mismanaging this whole thing?

Why would they be punished? Leonard is still needing "loading management" and laboring on that bad leg.

Leonard's representation said it could go away with rest and rehab, the Spurs medical staff said it would be chronic and he would deal with this injury throughout the remainder of career. Seems they were right.....

Also, did they get fired when they actually misdiagnosed Ian Mahinmi years ago (and he missed a year of his career) or the supposed misdiagnosis of Pau Gasol this season?

[TheGreatYacht]

Ginobili for anyone wondering played a bigger part in Kawhis departure than Tony tbh.

He was far more vocal in his disblief about Kawhis injury and was the leader of the lockeroom scene that wanted Kawhi to play regardless of how he felt about his injury.
Agreed 100%

Dennis mentioned the locker room, not a player, for those Manure fans that try to pin this on Tony. Manu led that confrontation and the fact his midget fans are denying it is hilarious.

Spurs wanted to keep Kawhi. If Parker was the culprit he wouldn't have been offered a contract to stay by PATFO. Period. I do know Manu's retirement came at a fishy time....

[J_Paco]

Agreed 100%

Dennis mentioned the locker room, not a player, for those Manure fans that try to pin this on Tony. Manu led that confrontation and the fact his midget fans are denying it is hilarious.

Spurs wanted to keep Kawhi. If Parker was the culprit he wouldn't have been offered a contract to stay by PATFO. Period. I do know Manu's retirement came at a fishy time....

Sure, whatever you say.......

[Saitam]

What about Spurs diagnosing degenerative tendon in his quad and PATFO refusing to give him a max contract? #2 and uncle seeking for second, third, forth .... opinion until he gets diagnosed with other kind of injury and rehab? Meanwhile, relations between Spurs and #2 "camp" went broke. Im completely biased, but #2 minute management, actual quad injury and way he moved on court would confirm that Spurs medical staff were right. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2773680-kawhi-leonard-rumors-spurs-stars-camp-disagree-on-injury-diagnosis

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Weird response from you TBH. It has nothing to do with my original post which is that if #2's career ends shortly we are not going to hear about the media talking about him 24/7.

I’m just reminding you of what you said from before. ;)

[TheGreatYacht]

When the truth comes out spursfans would deny it tbh.
Estrogen filled vanilla spurs fans were complaining when Kawhi and his team never said a word about any of this. Now they're crying because Dennis spoke the facts, not one lie. This is what the senile coach asked for last season when he told the media to ask Kawhi's posse.

If you ain't bending over for PATFO like they are, you're getting a horde of fatnecks on you. Ask Danny after his Nick Nurse/Pop comments.

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utx1Op_2kXA

Media running with this garbage. Doesn't matter one bit that Kawhi faked his injury and everyone knows it.

[Uriel]

1133037438593404928

[tholdren]

The mistrust surrounding the injury definitely played a prominent role; Uncle Dennis isn't lying about that. It's difficult to point to the exact piece of hay that broke the camel's back but this was up there.

However, the downfall was actually many years in the making. There are layers to it.

The reason I don't say more is that to do so, I'd have to name names. There are like four or five prominent people right in the middle of the drama that media members don't really mention -- or only mention peripherally. Even if I drop vague hints, it'd take ST about five minutes to guess the names.

Everyone I've emailed with regarding further details has come to the same conclusion: not worth the consequences. The people involved would deny it and there's a good chance of being blackballed.

That said, I know some of the ESPN decision makers are now weighing whether to divulge more. With the Raptors in the Finals, they know it'd be a huge story that could be worth the blowback. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance they'll publish it in the next week.

Todays nba and fans. More worried about the bs drama and gossip than the game itself. Who cares

[Gibbz]

Why y'all still whining? Move on. The guy's not here anymore. We suck, Toronto rocks. End of story

Toronto sucks, too--they're just playing in the maggot-stuffed anus that is the Eastern Conference Playoffs.

[jbspurs]

It was always about getting his Cash Cow to L.A. .

I agree! He mentioned about LA even before the start of last season. Lack of trust my ass!

[YGWHI]

Ijust now read timvps post. Years in the making" has probably something to do with the Spurs slow to give thereins to Kawhi and him always being in the big 3s shadow.

What probably offended Kawhi is some high executive probably said Kawhi wasnton their level (yet)

The 4-5 people involved are probably the big 3 themselves saying Kawhi isntready. Or that hes an introvert. Or that he has no leadership. Some well knownthing that Kawhi and his group probably couldnt accept.

Bottomline, i think pride was the main cause in all these things. This is mytheory now.

As far as being blackballed...i think he was just referring to himself(timvp)and not actually people in the Spurs.
timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8),can you give me a little sign if im getting any of this right?

I don’t care if the Spurs overreacted/panicked thinking they would lose control if they participate Kawhi’s representatives even in some small decisions

I don’t care if the Spurs misread the situation and were thinking Kawhi’s camp could have the same influence as Lebron’s guys when Kawhi’s camp wasn’t exactly a powerful group like Lebron’s

I don’t care if the Spurs didn’t want to change a bit/adapt to new times…since every franchise gives something to keep their superstar.

I don’t care if that stupid Spurs executive insulted Kawhi and his old teammates didn’t support him

I don’t care if the Spurs made the mistake of trying to lowball him with zero supermax offer until he asked for a trade and offered it too late

I don’tcare if Uncle Dennis is a greedy man that only wanted money

Who cares? After all this drama…In October the Spurs will start a new season and I will still watch their games as always…

I’m just here to laug so hard at people saying Kawhi wasn’t ready to be a leader/carrying the Spurs.

Raptors were trailing by double digits in a crucial game against the best team of theseason…Timeout…Everyone was silent…Then Kawhi said “Enjoy the moment…Stay here…Stay together…Stay patient…We’re good…Keep taking the open shots (tothe guys who were missing everything) …Focus on defense…”

1132764423096029185

A true positive leader.

It amazes me how Pop was so wrong about him. “but but he never a leader"

I love Pop and this franchise but sometimes they make really stupid mistakes.

[DPG21920]

You are so bad.

[YGWHI]

You are so bad.
Well, at least I'm not the guy who said he wasn't a leader...

[DPG21920]

Well, at least I'm not the guy who said he wasn't a leader...

So in his time with the Spurs and with how he did what he did, you think he was a leader? You are so dense that you couldn’t see how someone looking at how Kawhi acted for 7 years could say that?

Just because he may have changed with TOR does not invalidate Pop. Use your damn brain for once man.

[Dancelot]

Instead of firing them, why doesn't Kawhi sue them for malpractice? BOTH sides subject to discovery, lengthy depositions, etc. Bring in ALL the doctors and therapists that saw Kawhi. Then a jury trial to determine the truth. Some how I dont think Kawhi would want any part of this process. He couldn't hide or be shielded by his group.
You know what would be even better is if the spurs sued for slander.

[Degoat]

The kawhi lovers & haters is getting weird... who cares about Kawhi! Be concerned about the upcoming draft and free agency for the spurs

[south side spur]

So in his time with the Spurs and with how he did what he did, you think he was a leader? You are so dense that you couldn’t see how someone looking at how Kawhi acted for 7 years could say that?

Just because he may have changed with TOR does not invalidate Pop. Use your damn brain for once man.

You’re wasting your energy bro. This is the time for the Kawhite Knights to shine. This is I told you so time. They can call Pop a liar and even if it’s baseless it doesn’t matter.

[YGWHI]

So in his time with the Spurs and with how he did what he did, you think he was a leader? You are so dense that you couldn’t see how someone looking at how Kawhi acted for 7 years could say that?

Just because he may have changed with TOR does not invalidate Pop. Use your damn brain for once man.

You can use yours too.

Do you think that Kawhi's offensive game is the same than in 2012?? He improved.

Why one of the best coaches in the NBA history couldn't see that Kawhi would become into this type of leader??

How he couldn't think that Kawhi would improve his leadership as well as his game??

If I think he was a leader...Since the team had older vocal leaders, he led by example. He was a hard worker in practices and the best player on the court in every game.

[JeffDuncan]

You know what would be even better is if the spurs sued for slander.

Oh geez, guy, don't start talking slander. Everybody who posts to ST would be served with a subpoena. Lol

[south side spur]

I guarantee you most of these Kawhite Knights are millennials. All the dumb things they do are a direct result of their environment and all of their accomplishments are only attributable to themselves.

[DPG21920]

You can use yours too.

Do you think that Kawhi's offensive game is the same than in 2012?? He improved.

Why one of the best coaches in the NBA history couldn't see that Kawhi would become into this type of leader??

How he couldn't think that Kawhi would improve his leadership as well as his game??

If I think he was a leader...Since the team had older vocal leaders, he led by example. He was a hard worker in practices and the best player on the court in every game.

That is so stupid. Look at what he did :lol. Look at how he did it. Why couldn’t Pop see the good in Kawhi after that? Hmmm. Shocking. You know what, scoreboard you. Genius level powers of deduction.

[DPG21920]

Also, again, you do nothing but post about Kawhi. For a supposed Spurs fan, where is that same level of dedication and energy to posting about the Spurs on a Spurs board?

[Dancelot]

Oh geez, guy, don't start talking slander. Everybody who posts to ST would be served with a subpoena. Lol
:lol

[YGWHI]

I guarantee you most of these Kawhite Knights are millennials. All the dumb things they do are a direct result of their environment and all of their accomplishments are only attributable to themselves.

"But but our franchise never made a mistake...They are so perfect"

They lost the best player in 2019 playoffs and top 3 overall in this league.

The best organization and the best coach couldn't see that a young quiet player could become a leader in next years...

[YGWHI]

That is so stupid. Look at what he did :lol. Look at how he did it. Why couldn’t Pop see the good in Kawhi after that? Hmmm. Shocking. You know what, scoreboard you. Genius level powers of deduction.

The issue was the Spurs couldn't see it before all drama happened...That's what "Dejonte" post said. According to him they didn't offer him the supermax because he wasn't ready to be a leader. Then they offered it when it was too late.


Also, again, you do nothing but post about Kawhi. For a supposed Spurs fan, where is that same level of dedication and energy to posting about the Spurs on a Spurs board?

I've posted enough about this team in the regular season and playoffs. I was one of the few fans here who said they would make playoffs and pass 1st round.

I was wrong but I still supported them until last minute of game 7.

Now, we're on offseason and post about Kawhi.

[JeffDuncan]

...
The best organization and the best coach couldn't see that a young quiet player could become a leader in next years...

No, hold the phone. Everybody go back and look at what Coach Pop actually said.

Pop said, of Kawhi's leadership, "that may come as he progresses." Pop never ruled out Leonard being a leader. Any ideas about that are wrong.

[DPG21920]

No, hold the phone. Everybody go back and look at what Coach Pop actually said.

Pop said, of Kawhi's leadership, "that may come as he progresses." Pop never ruled out Leonard being a leader. Any ideas about that are wrong.

Beyond that, the argument he’s making is so ridiculous (which he knows) that it goes beyond even what Pop actually said. The logic of what he’s posting is just so bad, that you don’t even need to address the technicalities

[south side spur]

"But but our franchise never made a mistake...They are so perfect"

They lost the best player in 2019 playoffs and top 3 overall in this league.

The best organization and the best coach couldn't see that a young quiet player could become a leader in next years...

Bro I currently hate basketball right now because my Spurs are taking a hit and a player who I was grateful for and wanted to lead the Spurs to more titles is doing so with another team. Don’t even try your bullshit narrative with me. I’m only going to feel somewhat better on draft night. I can’t watch ESPN or NBAtv or listen to sports radio.

I’ll say it right now. I’d feel better if Kawhi was still a Spur and Pop was no longer coaching. That’s just how I feel yeah Kawhi is a great player no one is disputing that.

But don’t try and paint him like he’s without faults. Parker gets all types of grief on here for Claxton closing in ‘03 but Kawhi gets a pass for ‘13 and his choke at the line? He gets a pass for getting cucked in ‘15 AND getting outclassed in ‘16?

He gets a pass for shutting it down with a fucking sprained ankle in ‘17?

And when Pop says he wasn’t a leader y’all Kawhite Knights totally ignore how he sat back and allowed Hall of Famers to answer questions specifically about him for 3/4 of the season? A leader isn’t just good or great they bring that good or greatness out of their teammates...like he’s doing now. What he didn’t do with the Spurs.

If KD is going to take heat about being hypersensitive when it comes to media criticism how can Kawhi not take heat for being hypersensitive to Hall of Famers critiques? Come on bro

[Slippy]

You dont have to look too far to see where the offending started . Dennis the menace states team doctors said he could play through it when he was actually in pain. Distrust between the parties would of built from there. Remember tony coming out and speaking on behalf of the doctors . Pretty sure the docs have been there long term.

What gets lost is how Kawhi basicslly screwed the franchise that built him up and went along with his demands of a trade after sitting out most of the season. He gave absolutely nothing back to the team and killed his trade value just to hammer it home. He feels disrespected. Seems over the top to me but some of you suckers and media will simply get swept on how good he performing now.

[YGWHI]

No, hold the phone. Everybody go back and look at what Coach Pop actually said.

Pop said, of Kawhi's leadership, "that may come as he progresses." Pop never ruled out Leonard being a leader. Any ideas about that are wrong.

"Kawhi was a great player, but he wasn't a leader or anything" Or anything...Niceeee.

"

[YGWHI]

A leader isn’t just good or great they bring that good or greatness out of their teammates...like he’s doing now. What he didn’t do with the Spurs.
I would wonder why he "supposedly" changed. Why he "wasn't a leader or anything" on the Spurs and now he's "suddenly" a leader on other team?

How a player changed that much in just a few months? Or he was always the same guy but people didn't want to recognize his leadership way just because he left the team?

[DMC]

Some say the Spurs are too far up their own asses to see this kind of shit coming. They are entrenched in the legacy of The Big Three and don't necessarily have the wherewithal to move forward just yet. Pop could be the reason. It's difficult to say.

Pop seems like a rather rational person however it's definitely going to be his way and when he's right he's really right and when he's wrong he's really wrong. Either way you're going to see the results of his decisions and not so much the decisions of people that he touts to media as the faces of the franchise.

For some reason though, Kawhi's injury and how it was handled it's so different than the injuries of Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker or Tim Duncan. I don't understand what the differences are there. Do they have different team doctors now? Was the push to move Kawhi back onto the floor too soon? That doesn't make any sense to investment minded individual to risk your assets that way and that's not the way the Spurs operate in my opinion.

I don't believe we've seen the last of this injury thing from him by the way. There's no reason he can't play that card at any given time and take as much time as he wants while getting paid to hang out another city.

[DMC]

But let's not kid ourselves here, the only reason Toronto is in the Finals is because LeBron James is in the West. Had LeBron James moved to the West 2 years ago it's quite possible Toronto makes a Finals last year. Who knows? They lost to the Cavaliers.

[JeffDuncan]

"Kawhi was a great player, but he wasn't a leader or anything" Or anything...Niceeee.

"

C'mon, be honest enough to post the entire quote. You obviously forgot what Pop said, or never knew it in the first place.

[hooperflash]

I really was 100% all for rooting for Kawhi , but this Uncle Dennis character really makes me want a Warriors 3 peat . Yikes

[RC_Drunkford]

A leader doesn't hide. Spurs couldn't even reach Kawhi when he went to China to send their security, etc. People say it was miscommunication, but it was Kawhi who wasn't reachable. Spurs always tried to communicate

[TimmyBuckets]

Nephew wants out, fakes an injury to use as an excuse to leave, throws shade, through his uncle, at the organization that made him what he is. Case closed.

PS: leader lol

[exstatic]

Nephew is not going to be "right" physically in the future on a consistent basis. This playoff run has greatly worn him down. If he has another long series with Golden State he might need a year off again to recover.

:lol. People are COMPLETELY ignoring the word degenerative in his condition. His quad will never be any better than it is this very second. It will only break down from here.

[Murray2k]

Let's not kid ourselves, Kawhi will be elite for 3-4 years more at least.. If you are expecting his level to fall off you are only setting yourselves up for disappointment.

[bic50]

Cultists are mad

[JeffDuncan]

A leader doesn't hide. Spurs couldn't even reach Kawhi when he went to China to send their security, etc. People say it was miscommunication, but it was Kawhi who wasn't reachable. Spurs always tried to communicate

Good heavens, fellow, let's keep the lying down to a dull roar, ok?

https://www.nba.com/article/2017/08/16/kawhi-leonard-make-visit-china-nba-academy-zhejiang



Kawhi Leonard to make first-ever visit to China

Official release

Aug 16, 2017 12:34 PM ET

BEIJING -- NBA China today announced that NBA Champion and two-time NBA All-Star Kawhi Leonard of the San Antonio Spurs will visit China from Aug. 18 – 24 to support the growth of basketball in the country and coach top youth talent from the region at The NBA Academy Zhejiang. This will be Leonard’s first trip to China.

Leonard, a two-time NBA All-Star and the 2014 Bill Russell NBA Finals Most Valuable Player, will travel to Beijing to host a basketball clinic for select migrant school students as part of NBA’s celebration of its 30-year partnership with CCTV. He will also meet fans at NBA 5v5, the league’s five-on-five tournament for elite players in China, and visit Tencent’s broadcast studio in Beijing.

In addition, Leonard will work with the NBA’s Player Development department and participate in the Career Crossover program. Leonard will spend time in the NBA Beijing Office to shadow NBA China CEO David Shoemaker, attend various business meetings with NBA China executives and conduct a chalk talk with NBA staff.

Leonard will then visit The NBA Academy Zhejiang in Zhuji, becoming the first NBA player to visit an NBA Academy in China. He will coach the academy players through a series of basketball drills. Leonard will wrap up his trip by making a special appearance at the NBA Playzone in Shanghai, an NBA-themed family entertainment destination for kids and their families.
...


See the link for the entire article.

And if you're going to post lies to try to advance your case, at least try to make them a little less flaming, howling stupid, ok?

[monty4329]

That said, I know some of the ESPN decision makers are now weighing whether to divulge more. With the Raptors in the Finals, they know it'd be a huge story that could be worth the blowback. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance they'll publish it in the next week.

So they kept it under wraps for months waiting for it to be ratingworthy enough. Then TOR got past Philly only by a stroke of luck and they didn't publish it, got 2-down against MIL and still didn't publish it...?

It is totally unexplainable how they keep risking Kawhi getting ousted from POs, or injured, basically making those "secret" news totally irrelevant. I highly doubt there's anything newsworthy ESPN is keeping mum, frankly.

[DJR210]

A leader doesn't hide. Spurs couldn't even reach Kawhi when he went to China to send their security, etc. People say it was miscommunication, but it was Kawhi who wasn't reachable. Spurs always tried to communicate

This is true.. If Aldridge could have a talk and repair things, so could Kawhi. I believe the Spurs did enough for him to earn that respect.. But judging from what we saw that season he was nowhere to be found.

[monty4329]

manu would likely still think he was right if he were to have seen leonard playing through the pain this past series because he would have thought this is what he should have done at some point last season. but chances are manu isn't even watching so there's that.

ouch...your consecutio temporum gives me headaches :)

[vavvi]

This is true.. If Aldridge could have a talk and repair things, so could Kawhi. I believe the Spurs did enough for him to earn that respect.. But judging from what we saw that season he was nowhere to be found.

Exactly

[monty4329]

Just join the raptors bandwagon formally already - why the fuck do you continue to post here?

Go fuck yourself and stop pretending you are some kind of spurs fan.

The piece of shit quitter betrayed this franchise.

All he had to do was stfu for ONE SEASON - and then turn down the spurs offer and go play wherever the fuck he wanted.

Instead he took a FULL PAYCHECK

and sat like a pussy in hiding - with no fucking balls to face little tony parker and skinny ass manu and midget patty -

and then hid for a full fucking season. This - will NEVER EVER EVER -

make anyone respect that piece of shit prima donna.

I hated KOBE's ass more than any player in history - but that rapist would have sucked it up after the ZAZA incident and played the entire series.

I hate the warriors more than any team in history - and I refuse to root for them to win over the quitter -

but I also refuse to support or root for this piece of shit quitter and I hope he has a career ending REAL injury.

As a matter of fact - here is the ultimate scenario in the finals.

That Draymond, Curry, Durant & Kawhi all go for a loose ball and collide and all four suffer career ending injuries -

but that is not all -

I hope that while you are watching this - you choke on your goddamn tacos -

and end up in intensive care - and that Kawhi hears about your story and a reporter suggests he visit you in the hospital -

and the quitter refuses to go and just says - "fuck that dik sucker"

go fuck yourself you piece of shit kawhi ball licker.

Can't approve your hate but you made me laugh a lot, thanks :rollin

[acoelho1]

There is a new story on the Lakers dysfunction on ESPN today, which gives greater context on what occurred during the Magic/Pelinka regime. So, why can't we get the same kind of story on the Kawhi saga? This secrecy makes absolutely no sense. Even if RC and Pop deny it, so what. You get credible sources and build your story. That's journalism 101.

[rasuo214]

This is true.. If Aldridge could have a talk and repair things, so could Kawhi. I believe the Spurs did enough for him to earn that respect.. But judging from what we saw that season he was nowhere to be found.

There was zero reason for Aldridge to be that upset. He was on b2b 60 win teams, the whole point of him coming to SA was the chance to win knowing that it could impact his stats. If he wanted to be the #1 option he should have gone to Phoenix but then again he would have just bitched when Booker became the guy.

[exstatic]

There is a new story on the Lakers dysfunction on ESPN today, which gives greater context on what occurred during the Magic/Pelinka regime. So, why can't we get the same kind of story on the Kawhi saga? This secrecy makes absolutely no sense. Even if RC and Pop deny it, so what. You get credible sources and build your story. That's journalism 101.

Just because the Laker organization is completely dysfunctional and full of backbiting and gossip doesn't mean SA is, or needs to be like that. It's one of the reasons that the media likes them: there's always a snitch ready to tell on someone.

[DJR210]

There was zero reason for Aldridge to be that upset. He was on b2b 60 win teams, the whole point of him coming to SA was the chance to win knowing that it could impact his stats. If he wanted to be the #1 option he should have gone to Phoenix but then again he would have just bitched when Booker became the guy.

There was absolutely reason to be upset IMO. The difference is how he went about handling his issue. Pop wanted to play him in the same mold as he would have with an aging Duncan, and it wasn't working for Aldridge. Instead of complaining to ESPN analysts "anonymously" through his agent, he walked in to Pop's office and walked out with a new commitment to the team, and a reassurance of minor tweaks to the age old system to maximize his talents.

[rasuo214]

There is a new story on the Lakers dysfunction on ESPN today, which gives greater context on what occurred during the Magic/Pelinka regime. So, why can't we get the same kind of story on the Kawhi saga? This secrecy makes absolutely no sense. Even if RC and Pop deny it, so what. You get credible sources and build your story. That's journalism 101.

The Laker stories coming out has a lot to do with Magic stepping down. So all the sources are spilling (especially after Magic's recent interview). Maybe when Pop retires and if Kawhi is still relevant on the national stage we'll get more details.

[rasuo214]

There was absolutely reason to be upset IMO. The difference is how he went about handling his issue. Pop wanted to play him in the same mold as he would have with an aging Duncan, and it wasn't working for Aldridge. Instead of complaining to ESPN analysts "anonymously" through his agent, he walked in to Pop's office and walked out with a new commitment to the team, and a reassurance of minor tweaks to the age old system to maximize his talents.

The Spurs having a system and Aldridge needing to adjust his play style to fit wasn't anything new. Aldridge just refused to commit (or wasn't capable) to the adjustment. So why come to SA if he just wanted to be the #1 option and play his way? It's basically like the CP3 situation now, he's bitching about Harden being ball dominant when everyone knew that Harden was a ball dominant player.

[pad300]

Good heavens, fellow, let's keep the lying down to a dull roar, ok?

https://www.nba.com/article/2017/08/16/kawhi-leonard-make-visit-china-nba-academy-zhejiang



See the link for the entire article.

And if you're going to post lies to try to advance your case, at least try to make them a little less flaming, howling stupid, ok?

Ok, I read the entire article. Where, exactly, does it say that the Spurs organization was able to communicate & coordinate with Kawhi about the trip? Or are you the one posting flaming, howling, stupid lies to advance your case?

[acoelho1]

Just because the Laker organization is completely dysfunctional and full of backbiting and gossip doesn't mean SA is, or needs to be like that. It's one of the reasons that the media likes them: there's always a snitch ready to tell on someone.

What are you talking about? This is the biggest controversy in Spurs history so it demands a full account. For whatever reason, Wright & ESPN are holding the story, which is unprecedented in sports journalism.

[acoelho1]

The Laker stories coming out has a lot to do with Magic stepping down. So all the sources are spilling (especially after Magic's recent interview). Maybe when Pop retires and if Kawhi is still relevant on the national stage we'll get more details.

There were already many stories of the Lakers dysfunction prior to Magic stepping down so that's not it.

[JeffDuncan]

Ok, I read the entire article. Where, exactly, does it say that the Spurs organization was able to communicate & coordinate with Kawhi about the trip? Or are you the one posting flaming, howling, stupid lies to advance your case?

Guy, it was an official NBA trip, with a published itinerary. There was nothing for the Spurs to coordinate. The NBA handled it. Are you nothing but a lying, howling, stupid, ignorant, shit headed fool who can't even read?

[exstatic]

What are you talking about? This is the biggest controversy in Spurs history so it demands a full account. For whatever reason, Wright & ESPN are holding the story, which is unprecedented in sports journalism.

They don't owe you any kind of accounting. That's not how they operate, and you should know that by now.

[acoelho1]

They don't owe you any kind of accounting. That's not how they operate, and you should know that by now.

It's called journalism. Look it up.

[K...]

It's obviously in the Spurs benefit not to talk anymore. They can't get anything else out of it. Unless Lenard has a deal with Toronto, he probably doesn't want the truth out either. The group is probably happy they can just present their side with contest.

There's no real journalism at ESPN. It's all press release based image management.

[exstatic]

It's obviously in the Spurs benefit not to talk anymore. They can't get anything else out of it. Unless Lenard has a deal with Toronto, he probably doesn't want the truth out either. The group is probably happy they can just present their side with contest.

There's no real journalism at ESPN. It's all press release based image management.

[jjktkk]

I would wonder why he "supposedly" changed. Why he "wasn't a leader or anything" on the Spurs and now he's "suddenly" a leader on other team?

How a player changed that much in just a few months? Or he was always the same guy but people didn't want to recognize his leadership way just because he left the team?

Once the big 3 passed the baton over to Leonard, he failed to show any leadership. Hiding behind your wannabe agent uncle's skirts and letting him speak for you two years later shows no leadership what so ever.

[rjv]

ouch...your consecutio temporum gives me headaches :) thanks. it's an homage to both archy the cockroach and leopold bloom at the same time.

[pad300]

Guy, it was an official NBA trip, with a published itinerary. There was nothing for the Spurs to coordinate. The NBA handled it. Are you nothing but a lying, howling, stupid, ignorant, shit headed fool who can't even read?

I don't think the nba works the way you think.
The NBA just says to player X, here are the events,
1) Media conference at 123 Wang Shou street in Beijing at 0900 to 1500 local on the 22nd of August 2017
2) Youth player camp at ....
etc

They don't organize the players travel, accomodations, routine, what other meetings are going on, etc, etc. They don't care how the player does it, just that he shows up at the obligations... So all that organization and coordination need to happen. When the team isn't involved and looking after their high value assets (players), occasionally bad things happen, eg. Kawhi having to walk through Mardi Gras to attend the all-star game, or worse, the Jay Williams story. Not to mention that this is going on in the planning stages of the offseason, so if SAS wants to consult their "face of the franchise" about a decision that needs making, how do they reach him? So yeah, big corporation really likes being able to communicate and coordinate with it's biggest (and extremely well compensated) assets.

[DJR210]

The Spurs having a system and Aldridge needing to adjust his play style to fit wasn't anything new. Aldridge just refused to commit (or wasn't capable) to the adjustment. So why come to SA if he just wanted to be the #1 option and play his way? It's basically like the CP3 situation now, he's bitching about Harden being ball dominant when everyone knew that Harden was a ball dominant player.

It's an irrelevant point considering how he went about handling it. He was unhappy, but was open to fixing it. Can't ask for much more.

[temujin]

It's obviously in the Spurs benefit not to talk anymore. They can't get anything else out of it. Unless Lenard has a deal with Toronto, he probably doesn't want the truth out either. The group is probably happy they can just present their side with contest.

There's no real journalism at ESPN. It's all press release based image management.

[RC_Drunkford]

Good heavens, fellow, let's keep the lying down to a dull roar, ok?

https://www.nba.com/article/2017/08/16/kawhi-leonard-make-visit-china-nba-academy-zhejiang



See the link for the entire article.

And if you're going to post lies to try to advance your case, at least try to make them a little less flaming, howling stupid, ok?

listen to the Michael C. Wright Podcast stupid, Spurs lost contact to Leonard on the China trip. An official NBA statement doesn't have anything to do with the Spurs. Spurs security wasn't even with him. Matter of fact Spurs couldn't even reach Kawhi later down the line when they were in the SAME BUILDING in NY

[Brazil]

Spurs fans throwing shit at Spurs players blaming them for Kawhi are garbage.. The whole team was busting their ass off to get the Spurs in the POs while dat pos Kawhi was in NY doing "rehab", Kawhi never showed support neither sit on the bench rooting for his teammates.. and people are blaming the players who were mad after passing one season hearing the star of the team will come back then cancel then announce he will back then cancel.. rinse and repeat ?

gtofh tbh.. Manu, TP, Pop, FO.. have been soft calling out this motherfucker.

The :cry my teammates and FO were mean to me that's why I wanted to leave :cry meme is pure bullshit

[jmard5]

What makes me suspicious is why won't Uncle Dennis and his group release the truth? Makes no sense if it paints PATFO in a bad light? Wouldn't that help Kawhi's reputation? It's just a weird situation. Tbh

Weird situation, indeed.

[K...]

To go further consider past and current scandals. People like Sterling and the Atlanta Hawks people get exposed because someone wants them out. Either a rival or an unhappy player. The Mavs sex case and the earlier Knicks sxc harassment came from actual journalism.

The Lakers are a blood in the water type case. Every stakeholder and source, every rival to lebrons agent is trying to settle scores

For San Antonio, no one wants to expose the 2020 Olympic coach. The remaining details we don't know might not be newsworthy because the truth is boring, the secret parties aren't big names, and because no one is pushing to get the story released

[manufan10]

Spurs fans throwing shit at Spurs players blaming them for Kawhi are garbage.. The whole team was busting their ass off to get the Spurs in the POs while dat pos Kawhi was in NY doing "rehab", Kawhi never showed support neither sit on the bench rooting for his teammates.. and people are blaming the players who were mad after passing one season hearing the star of the team will come back then cancel then announce he will back then cancel.. rinse and repeat ?

gtofh tbh.. Manu, TP, Pop, FO.. have been soft calling out this motherfucker.

The :cry my teammates and FO were mean to me that's why I wanted to leave :cry meme is pure bullshit

And the Spurs spent the entire season last year covering for him. Kawhi got ZERO media scrutiny because they shielded him from it. Absurd.

[manufan10]

To go further consider past and current scandals. People like Sterling and the Atlanta Hawks people get exposed because someone wants them out. Either a rival or an unhappy player. The Mavs sex case and the earlier Knicks sxc harassment came from actual journalism.

The Lakers are a blood in the water type case. Every stakeholder and source, every rival to lebrons agent is trying to settle scores

For San Antonio, no one wants to expose the 2020 Olympic coach. The remaining details we don't know might not be newsworthy because the truth is boring, the secret parties aren't big names, and because no one is pushing to get the story released

If it's someone said something racist or homophobic, etc. has someone else mentioned, then it wouldn't hurt Kawhi or his group to leak that information out. They've been oddly quiet in that regard if that theory were true.

[K...]

If it's someone said something racist or homophobic, etc. has someone else mentioned, then it wouldn't hurt Kawhi or his group to leak that information out. They've been oddly quiet in that regard if that theory were true.

It's possible this "insult" is true, like if they accused Leonard of faking injury that only invites more scrutiny about the actual injury, or if they said Uncle is a bafoon, then the story is about uncle's dealings. Their narrative is that kawhi was misdiagnosed and pressured to play. That argument is dumb, but the burden is on the Spurs to rebut it, which they aren't going to do.

[duncan2k5]

As I said in the other thread .. uncle Dennis waited until AFTER Kahwi made the finals to get the last word /push his narrative against the Spurs .. asshole

What would be the difference if he did it before the finals?

[duncan2k5]

If I had to guess what inside info timvp had, it would be something along the lines of the Spurs' ownership group saying something really nasty about Kawhi that made him feel disrespected, and the Spurs manipulating the media to advance their narrative.

I remember them reporting that Dennis told them Spurs would meet them face to face and everything would be fine, and when they leave, he would see them throwing shots on TV, or hearing about them saying something completely different behind their backs

[ZeusWillJudge]

What would be the difference if he did it before the finals?


Because if he didn't get Toronto to the Finals, people would say "So what?"

[ZeusWillJudge]

I remember them reporting that Dennis told them Spurs would meet them face to face and everything would be fine, and when they leave, he would see them throwing shots on TV, or hearing about them saying something completely different behind their backs


I remember them reporting that the Spurs couldn't meet with Kawhi face to face, and that he avoided them. I imagine it would get pretty frustrating for a team, when your player won't communicate. I think the Spurs were a lot less outspoken than I would have been.

Since you seem to believe what Uncle Dennis says, explain the "lack of trust" thing. Kawhi trusted the Spurs to pay his fucking salary, and they did that. He trusted them to allow him to run off to New York to see his own medical people, and not keep the Spurs in the loop. Exactly what did they want the Spurs to do that they couldn't trust them to do?

The Spurs trusted Kawhi and his people to communicate. And they trusted that he wouldn't fuck them over in the trade market, by demanding that he go to a specific city.

Which looks more trustworthy to you?

[duncan2k5]

The mistrust surrounding the injury definitely played a prominent role; Uncle Dennis isn't lying about that. It's difficult to point to the exact piece of hay that broke the camel's back but this was up there.

However, the downfall was actually many years in the making. There are layers to it.

The reason I don't say more is that to do so, I'd have to name names. There are like four or five prominent people right in the middle of the drama that media members don't really mention -- or only mention peripherally. Even if I drop vague hints, it'd take ST about five minutes to guess the names.

Everyone I've emailed with regarding further details has come to the same conclusion: not worth the consequences. The people involved would deny it and there's a good chance of being blackballed.

That said, I know some of the ESPN decision makers are now weighing whether to divulge more. With the Raptors in the Finals, they know it'd be a huge story that could be worth the blowback. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance they'll publish it in the next week.

I don't know if u ever saw my post from a year back... But I said I KNOW LaMarcus was one of the major issues... I think Kawhi didn't like his whiney energy... How he faded away when the playoffs came, then demanded a trade after... How he pouts when he doesn't shoot the ball more than everyone else... And I think it rubbed Kawhi the wrong way when LMA was signed to an extension at the beginning of the season right after he choked in the playoffs and wanted out, but wanted to play cute when it came to paying Kawhi... If I'm right, reply to this post :)

[duncan2k5]

Manu is a Spur and Kawhi is a bitch...Manu played hurt/injured most of his career...so did Timmy...so did Tp...Kawhi had enough rehab and if he wanted to he could have shut it down for the year...the option was on the table ...but he and his group were stringing the Spurs along the entire year...and for players like Manu that has to be frustrating...hell we as fans were frustrated

Many and Timmy also sat out many times due to injuries... Let's not pretend they were Bruce bowen out there

[ZeusWillJudge]

I don't know if u ever saw my post from a year back... But I said I KNOW LaMarcus was one of the major issues... I think Kawhi didn't like his whiney energy... How he faded away when the playoffs came, then demanded a trade after... How he pouts when he doesn't shoot the ball more than everyone else... And I think it rubbed Kawhi the wrong way when LMA was signed to an extension at the beginning of the season right after he choked in the playoffs and wanted out, but wanted to play cute when it came to paying Kawhi... If I'm right, reply to this post :)


Nope. It was about a lack of trust. Uncle Dennis said so, and everything Kawhi and his people say is true. Didn't you read?

Or are you saying that Kawhi's manager uncle just made some shit up?


But if you really KNOW something, sport, tell us your source.

[duncan2k5]

What makes me suspicious is why won't Uncle Dennis and his group release the truth? Makes no sense if it paints PATFO in a bad light? Wouldn't that help Kawhi's reputation? It's just a weird situation. Tbh

Is it hard to think that despite the speculation, that he is actually a classy guy that doesn't want to put out dirt?

[ZeusWillJudge]

Many and Timmy also sat out many times due to injuries... Let's not pretend they were Bruce bowen out there


Manu and Tim had damage that showed up on an MRI. And they tried to come back and play before Pop would even let them, and often played through pain. They never sat out a whole season. You're not even close to making a point there.

[spurs10]

The Spurs paid $20 million for his rehab and Pop said publicly many times 'he'll play when he's ready.' As soon as he was 'fine to play' he and his Uncle demanded a trade to the Lakers. RC said at first sorry you're under contract, but eventually decided he was 'gone' and decided to move on. He ripped the Spurs off anyway you cut it. Never thought I'd be rooting for GSW, but you can bet I am. 'A class act' my ass.

[sammy]

I remember them reporting that the Spurs couldn't meet with Kawhi face to face, and that he avoided them. I imagine it would get pretty frustrating for a team, when your player won't communicate. I think the Spurs were a lot less outspoken than I would have been.

Since you seem to believe what Uncle Dennis says, explain the "lack of trust" thing. Kawhi trusted the Spurs to pay his fucking salary, and they did that. He trusted them to allow him to run off to New York to see his own medical people, and not keep the Spurs in the loop. Exactly what did they want the Spurs to do that they couldn't trust them to do?

The Spurs trusted Kawhi and his people to communicate. And they trusted that he wouldn't fuck them over in the trade market, by demanding that he go to a specific city.

Which looks more trustworthy to you?

Great take ZeusWillJudge! Uncle Dennis can go to hell! They treated the Spurs horribly with their innuendos and stole 20 million from the Spurs!

[duncan2k5]

You know what would be even better is if the spurs sued for slander.

Can't be slander if it's true... That's why they aren't responding

[duncan2k5]

It's an irrelevant point considering how he went about handling it. He was unhappy, but was open to fixing it. Can't ask for much more.

Ppl keep painting the Aldridge situation differently that it really happened... Go back and read the forum when it happened... He never sat with Pop in the beginning... No one knew why he was leaving... The sit down came only after he couldn't be traded... THAT'S when he told pop why he wanted to leave... If they traded him, we would still have no clue why he asked out... LMA isn't some noble guy... He played like shit in the playoffs after pouting about his touches the entire season.... Then asked out because he wasn't the top dog... Same thing he did with Lillard

[JeffDuncan]

listen to the Michael C. Wright Podcast stupid, Spurs lost contact to Leonard on the China trip. An official NBA statement doesn't have anything to do with the Spurs. Spurs security wasn't even with him. Matter of fact Spurs couldn't even reach Kawhi later down the line when they were in the SAME BUILDING in NY

He was in COMMUNIST CHINA, you nitwit.

Where his security detail was a unit from the frickin Chinese army, because it's a frickin communist dictatorship and he was a notable foreigner, you nitwit.

He was there for 6 days, you nitwit. On an official NBA visit, you nitwit. With a published itinerary, you nitwit. Which the Spurs knew about in advance, you nitwit.

Look, knock it off. Really. Just stop it. Moron.

Here's a story about the official NBA press release BEFORE the trip:

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/look-china-prepares-for-kawhi-leonards-arrival

Here's another one for you to read. Do that. Read it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ksat.com/sports/nba/spurs/kawhi-leonard-trip-to-china-nba-san-antonio-spurs

According to that KSAT story, the many photos and video taken during the trip were provided to them courtesy of the Spurs themselves. Who you claim were in a panic because they didn't know what was happening. You nitwit.

Look, characters like Michael C. Wright are hired by outfits like ESPN to do only one thing - fill air time between commercials. They are not hired to do research. They are not hired to provide facts. They are not hired even to make any sense. They are hired for only that one job. To fill air time. That is all.

But sure, you heard it on the internet so you know it has to be true.

[duncan2k5]

I remember them reporting that the Spurs couldn't meet with Kawhi face to face, and that he avoided them. I imagine it would get pretty frustrating for a team, when your player won't communicate. I think the Spurs were a lot less outspoken than I would have been.

Since you seem to believe what Uncle Dennis says, explain the "lack of trust" thing. Kawhi trusted the Spurs to pay his fucking salary, and they did that. He trusted them to allow him to run off to New York to see his own medical people, and not keep the Spurs in the loop. Exactly what did they want the Spurs to do that they couldn't trust them to do?

The Spurs trusted Kawhi and his people to communicate. And they trusted that he wouldn't fuck them over in the trade market, by demanding that he go to a specific city.

Which looks more trustworthy to you?

There were also reports saying that the doctors kept San Antonio in the loop... Pop himself said they were talking often... so I guess u guys just choose to ignore all those reports... Pop also said spurs doctors were in agreement with what the other doctors were showing them was the issue

[duncan2k5]

U ppl either are purposefully lying, or have short memories... https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/kawhi-leonard-doctors-spurs-agreed-rehab/439025

All u guys saying that Kawhi wasn't communicating with spurs officials are complete fabrications... Danny even said it... I remember part of Kawhi's uncle's frustration was that the Spurs front office would say a completely different reality from the situation that actually existed

[DJR210]

Ppl keep painting the Aldridge situation differently that it really happened... Go back and read the forum when it happened... He never sat with Pop in the beginning... No one knew why he was leaving... The sit down came only after he couldn't be traded... THAT'S when he told pop why he wanted to leave... If they traded him, we would still have no clue why he asked out... LMA isn't some noble guy... He played like shit in the playoffs after pouting about his touches the entire season.... Then asked out because he wasn't the top dog... Same thing he did with Lillard

:lol @ "go read the forum" like the people here's comments are the leading source of NBA info

He "couldn't" be traded because if you remember Pop said something along the lines of "I'd be happy to trade you, but unless you can bring back a KD we're going to have to work this out" - instead of holding out and ghosting the team, he listened to reason and resigned w/ the team. Also don't forget he also kept this shit in house and we learned of it AFTER he signed the extension.

[look_at_g_shred]

That's a terrible excuse. That's like going to buy a used car and not test driving it before you buy it. So in this case, Uncle Dennis is the shady slimy dealership just trying to make the sale.

[TMTTRIO]

Many and Timmy also sat out many times due to injuries... Let's not pretend they were Bruce bowen out there

How many times has Manu begged Pop to play him but Pop sat him out to protect him from himself. Also how many times has Manu played with a fractured arm, nose, etc. and came back pretty quickly from losing one of his balls he lost for the team to win.

[ducks]

Spurs gave him a phone that worked in China he trashed it
He also said wow I am a star and got a fucking big head

[temujin]

The Spurs paid $20 million for his rehab and Pop said publicly many times 'he'll play when he's ready.' As soon as he was 'fine to play' he and his Uncle demanded a trade to the Lakers. RC said at first sorry you're under contract, but eventually decided he was 'gone' and decided to move on. He ripped the Spurs off anyway you cut it. Never thought I'd be rooting for GSW, but you can bet I am. 'A class act' my ass.

[duncan2k5]

How many times has Manu begged Pop to play him but Pop sat him out to protect him from himself. Also how many times has Manu played with a fractured arm, nose, etc. and came back pretty quickly from losing one of his balls he lost for the team to win.

Manu had damn mean twenty years in the league... He has had much more opportunities to play through injuries than Kawhi... Besides Kawhi has played while hurt... The same way Manu keeps getting small injuries that keep him out, but he comes back, same with Kawhi... Many Parker, AND Duncan ALL have had injuries that kept them out of entire playoff runs... Not just one or two games here and there.. We pain this false narrative about them always being injured but playing regardless, and Kawhi as never playing through anything... Completely false... The only playoff run Kawhi has ever missed was 2017 when he injured the same ankle three times in the span of a week, and twice in one game... Once intentionally...the guy played on his hurt ankle until he simply couldn't walk... At the time NO ONE called him soft... But because yall are a bunch of hurt pussy bitches u wanna rewrite history And even tthe after knowing Zaza took Kawhi out on purpose Pop didn't defend him in the post game conference...

[johnnymoore]

Once the big 3 passed the baton over to Leonard, he failed to show any leadership. Hiding behind your wannabe agent uncle's skirts and letting him speak for you two years later shows no leadership what so ever.

He's damned sure showing it in Toronto.

[benefactor]

Manu had damn mean twenty years in the league... He has had much more opportunities to play through injuries than Kawhi... Besides Kawhi has played while hurt... The same way Manu keeps getting small injuries that keep him out, but he comes back, same with Kawhi... Many Parker, AND Duncan ALL have had injuries that kept them out of entire playoff runs... Not just one or two games here and there.. We pain this false narrative about them always being injured but playing regardless, and Kawhi as never playing through anything... Completely false... The only playoff run Kawhi has ever missed was 2017 when he injured the same ankle three times in the span of a week, and twice in one game... Once intentionally...the guy played on his hurt ankle until he simply couldn't walk... At the time NO ONE called him soft... But because yall are a bunch of hurt pussy bitches u wanna rewrite history And even tthe after knowing Zaza took Kawhi out on purpose Pop didn't defend him in the post game conference...
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[manufan10]

Manu had damn mean twenty years in the league... He has had much more opportunities to play through injuries than Kawhi... Besides Kawhi has played while hurt... The same way Manu keeps getting small injuries that keep him out, but he comes back, same with Kawhi... Many Parker, AND Duncan ALL have had injuries that kept them out of entire playoff runs... Not just one or two games here and there.. We pain this false narrative about them always being injured but playing regardless, and Kawhi as never playing through anything... Completely false... The only playoff run Kawhi has ever missed was 2017 when he injured the same ankle three times in the span of a week, and twice in one game... Once intentionally...the guy played on his hurt ankle until he simply couldn't walk... At the time NO ONE called him soft... But because yall are a bunch of hurt pussy bitches u wanna rewrite history And even tthe after knowing Zaza took Kawhi out on purpose Pop didn't defend him in the post game conference...


And you complain about "rewriting history."

zHvost-IQJk

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

Nephew wants out, fakes an injury to use as an excuse to leave, throws shade, through his uncle, at the organization that made him what he is. Case closed.

PS: leader lol

Period

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

A leader doesn't hide. Spurs couldn't even reach Kawhi when he went to China to send their security, etc. People say it was miscommunication, but it was Kawhi who wasn't reachable. Spurs always tried to communicate

:tu yup and I'm not even a huge fan of Pop's

[TimmyBuckets]

Kawhi slurpers can't be reasoned with. Their nephew hero can do no wrong.

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

I remember them reporting that the Spurs couldn't meet with Kawhi face to face, and that he avoided them. I imagine it would get pretty frustrating for a team, when your player won't communicate. I think the Spurs were a lot less outspoken than I would have been.

Since you seem to believe what Uncle Dennis says, explain the "lack of trust" thing. Kawhi trusted the Spurs to pay his fucking salary, and they did that. He trusted them to allow him to run off to New York to see his own medical people, and not keep the Spurs in the loop. Exactly what did they want the Spurs to do that they couldn't trust them to do?

The Spurs trusted Kawhi and his people to communicate. And they trusted that he wouldn't fuck them over in the trade market, by demanding that he go to a specific city.

Which looks more trustworthy to you?

Word

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

Is it hard to think that despite the speculation, that he is actually a classy guy that doesn't want to put out dirt?

:lmao classy

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

And you complain about "rewriting history."

zHvost-IQJk

I'm not on Kawhis side. Fuck that pussy but I do think this press conference was a tad late. Wasn't it the next day? I remember being pissed that Pop didn't respond immediately and felt this was an acting job by Pop to fix the fact that he didn't defend Kawi early enough. Yup that's exactly what I remember feeling. I think even Skip Bayless said something similar that Pop was acting.

Anyhow, fuck Kawhi's bitch ass

EDIT: To add Skip Bayless video about how Pop waited too long and was a staged interview...


https://youtu.be/GCFfZPDt0es

[azarel]

He was in COMMUNIST CHINA, you nitwit.

Where his security detail was a unit from the frickin Chinese army, because it's a frickin communist dictatorship and he was a notable foreigner, you nitwit.

He was there for 6 days, you nitwit. On an official NBA visit, you nitwit. With a published itinerary, you nitwit. Which the Spurs knew about in advance, you nitwit.

Look, knock it off. Really. Just stop it. Moron.

Here's a story about the official NBA press release BEFORE the trip:

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/look-china-prepares-for-kawhi-leonards-arrival

Here's another one for you to read. Do that. Read it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ksat.com/sports/nba/spurs/kawhi-leonard-trip-to-china-nba-san-antonio-spurs

According to that KSAT story, the many photos and video taken during the trip were provided to them courtesy of the Spurs themselves. Who you claim were in a panic because they didn't know what was happening. You nitwit.

Look, characters like Michael C. Wright are hired by outfits like ESPN to do only one thing - fill air time between commercials. They are not hired to do research. They are not hired to provide facts. They are not hired even to make any sense. They are hired for only that one job. To fill air time. That is all.

But sure, you heard it on the internet so you know it has to be true.

even in China, you are allowed to bring your own entourage/security (as a notable foreigner) and the Chinese Govt probably assign their own security unit in addition to help beef up security etc.

[RC_Drunkford]

He was in COMMUNIST CHINA, you nitwit.

Where his security detail was a unit from the frickin Chinese army, because it's a frickin communist dictatorship and he was a notable foreigner, you nitwit.

He was there for 6 days, you nitwit. On an official NBA visit, you nitwit. With a published itinerary, you nitwit. Which the Spurs knew about in advance, you nitwit.

Look, knock it off. Really. Just stop it. Moron.

Here's a story about the official NBA press release BEFORE the trip:

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/look-china-prepares-for-kawhi-leonards-arrival

Here's another one for you to read. Do that. Read it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ksat.com/sports/nba/spurs/kawhi-leonard-trip-to-china-nba-san-antonio-spurs

According to that KSAT story, the many photos and video taken during the trip were provided to them courtesy of the Spurs themselves. Who you claim were in a panic because they didn't know what was happening. You nitwit.

Look, characters like Michael C. Wright are hired by outfits like ESPN to do only one thing - fill air time between commercials. They are not hired to do research. They are not hired to provide facts. They are not hired even to make any sense. They are hired for only that one job. To fill air time. That is all.

But sure, you heard it on the internet so you know it has to be true.

Listen bitch, whatever got mentioned in the media as "The Spurs" and "Spurs staff" that was with him while rehabbing is most likely Kawhi's friend JeremyCastleberry who got hired by the Spurs. They lost track then and there, of course he still came in at media day, etc. but that's the point where they weren't in the loop like they used to be about the injury. The main mistake was giving Kawhi's camp control over the rehab process before even knowing if the Spurs rehab process actually worked. And apparently his group never got him healthy and it's still a lingering issue.

Spurs handed over the rehab process to his group on August 8th. Now look at the date of the China trip you fuckin bum

[Twisted_Dawg]

Nitwit...bitch...fucking bum.

This closure process is certainly difficult.

[JeffDuncan]

...

Listen, you insane lying shit head, it was an official trip on behalf of the NBA and also Jordan Brands, with a published itinerary, that the Spurs knew about in advance, and the Spurs knew about every day, and what he was doing, because they received photos and video to distribute to local media.

You moron.

[ElNono]

Instead of firing them, why doesn't Kawhi sue them for malpractice? BOTH sides subject to discovery, lengthy depositions, etc. Bring in ALL the doctors and therapists that saw Kawhi. Then a jury trial to determine the truth. Some how I dont think Kawhi would want any part of this process. He couldn't hide or be shielded by his group.

I'm fairly sure he would've sued if it ended up in a career-ender for him trying to play on a bum leg. The fact that the team eventually relented and let him do his off-team recovery points that somebody screwed up.



Why would they be punished? Leonard is still needing "loading management" and laboring on that bad leg.

Leonard's representation said it could go away with rest and rehab, the Spurs medical staff said it would be chronic and he would deal with this injury throughout the remainder of career. Seems they were right.....

Also, did they get fired when they actually misdiagnosed Ian Mahinmi years ago (and he missed a year of his career) or the supposed misdiagnosis of Pau Gasol this season?

The Spurs do 'load management' even if there's no injury in sight, so I don't think one thing is really related to the other. The larger point is that every player runs through injuries in their careers, and he looks healthy enough to be playing another NBA Finals...

[ElNono]

Spurs fans throwing shit at Spurs players blaming them for Kawhi are garbage.. The whole team was busting their ass off to get the Spurs in the POs while dat pos Kawhi was in NY doing "rehab", Kawhi never showed support neither sit on the bench rooting for his teammates.. and people are blaming the players who were mad after passing one season hearing the star of the team will come back then cancel then announce he will back then cancel.. rinse and repeat ?

gtofh tbh.. Manu, TP, Pop, FO.. have been soft calling out this motherfucker.

The :cry my teammates and FO were mean to me that's why I wanted to leave :cry meme is pure bullshit

The San Antonio Spurs held a players-only meeting to implore All-NBA forward Kawhi Leonard to return to the lineup and help the team in its push for the playoffs, league sources told ESPN.

Spurs guard Tony Parker, a four-time NBA champion, quarterbacked the meeting after the team's victory over Minnesota on Saturday night. Non-players were asked to leave the locker room, a source told Michael C. Wright.

:cry my injury is 10 times worse than his :cry

























:lol

[Brazil]

The San Antonio Spurs held a players-only meeting to implore All-NBA forward Kawhi Leonard to return to the lineup and help the team in its push for the playoffs, league sources told ESPN.

Spurs guard Tony Parker, a four-time NBA champion, quarterbacked the meeting after the team's victory over Minnesota on Saturday night. Non-players were asked to leave the locker room, a source told Michael C. Wright.

:cry my injury is 10 times worse than his :cry

























:lol

dude we are in 2019.. the tony/manu is getting old.. time to find another schtick

[MultiTroll]

The mistrust surrounding the injury definitely played a prominent role; Uncle Dennis isn't lying about that. It's difficult to point to the exact piece of hay that broke the camel's back but this was up there.

However, the downfall was actually many years in the making. There are layers to it.

The reason I don't say more is that to do so, I'd have to name names. There are like four or five prominent people right in the middle of the drama that media members don't really mention -- or only mention peripherally. Even if I drop vague hints, it'd take ST about five minutes to guess the names.

Everyone I've emailed with regarding further details has come to the same conclusion: not worth the consequences. The people involved would deny it and there's a good chance of being blackballed.

That said, I know some of the ESPN decision makers are now weighing whether to divulge more. With the Raptors in the Finals, they know it'd be a huge story that could be worth the blowback. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance they'll publish it in the next week.
Does it involve a three way with two of the Spurs Dancers?
Can you give us a hint about that?

[superbigtime]

I was so excited with that China trip, like wow Kawhi is going global and the Spurs will continue to bask in adoration from across the world. Then it came crashing down.

[duncan2k5]

And you complain about "rewriting history."

zHvost-IQJk

You are either stupid or lying... Or didn't watch the games... Pop DIDN'T defend Kawhi in the post game... And he got a LOT of heat for it on this same forum... And only after several days passed did he come out against Zaza... U clearly don't know shit

[Kermit]

You are either stupid or lying... Or didn't watch the games... Pop DIDN'T defend Kawhi in the post game... And he got a LOT of heat for it on this same forum... And only after several days passed did he come out against Zaza... U clearly don't know shit

Several days? It was the next day, and he compared what Zaza did to manslaughter. It was hyperbolic, much like your defense of a goldbricking forward.

[J_Paco]

I'm fairly sure he would've sued if it ended up in a career-ender for him trying to play on a bum leg. The fact that the team eventually relented and let him do his off-team recovery points that somebody screwed up.




The Spurs do 'load management' even if there's no injury in sight, so I don't think one thing is really related to the other. The larger point is that every player runs through injuries in their careers, and he looks healthy enough to be playing another NBA Finals...

No shit, he's healthy enough to play and was at the tail end of last season. My point, which you glossed right over, is that the Spurs medical staff diagnosed him with a chronic issue that he'll have to play through (as he's doing now and Duncan did with his knee).

His "group" claimed it would subside with rest and rehabilitation which it apparently hasn't after more than a year.

So, again why should the medical staff be fired when they we're apparently correct in their diagnosis?

And resting two or three (in most cases) older players while still annoying isn't comparable to a 27 year old athlete in his physical prime needing (22 games of) "time off."

[sammy]

According to Dr. Jason Garrett of Airrosti, Quitter has patellar tendinitis since he was in high school. This is an injury that he had prior to playing in the NBA. He was kneed in that area which aggravated it. Per Dr. Garrett, he will always have problems with that leg as it is a chronic injury and the Spurs staff were not responsible for something Quitter had as a pre-existing condition. The Spurs did everything right, rested the moron and allowed him to get other opinions/rehab in NY! The lack of trust BS from his money-grubbing Uncle Dennis! Quitter wouldn't even meet with Pop/RC, hiding from them in NY and not even sitting with his team during the playoffs! Spurs did everything they could for this treasonous moron! Throughout this bull, Pop was losing his wife while trying to get the team to the playoffs! I will never forgive Quitter and his Uncle Dennis can go to hell!

To those so-called fake Spur fans kissing Quitter's ass, go to hell! I stand with the Spurs! I bleed silver and black!

[duncan2k5]

Several days? It was the next day, and he compared what Zaza did to manslaughter. It was hyperbolic, much like your defense of a goldbricking forward.

U have already been exposed by everyone on here... Pop DIDN'T criticize Kawhi until AFTER he was criticized for not doing so

[Kermit]

U have already been exposed by everyone on here... Pop DIDN'T criticize Kawhi until AFTER he was criticized for not doing so

I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’ve posted in here. I doubt it’s the first time you’ve lied to bolster Kawhi’s malingering.

[ElNono]

dude we are in 2019.. the tony/manu is getting old.. time to find another schtick

Nothing better to do while LMA/DDR are on the team, tbh... we're running on pure nostalgia

[ElNono]

No shit, he's healthy enough to play and was at the tail end of last season. My point, which you glossed right over, is that the Spurs medical staff diagnosed him with a chronic issue that he'll have to play through (as he's doing now and Duncan did with his knee).

His "group" claimed it would subside with rest and rehabilitation which it apparently hasn't after more than a year.

So, again why should the medical staff be fired when they we're apparently correct in their diagnosis?

And resting two or three (in most cases) older players while still annoying isn't comparable to a 27 year old athlete in his physical prime needing (22 games of) "time off."

Except there's zero evidence to your point. If the indicator for chronic injuries is "load management", then pretty much the entire Spurs roster has chronic injuries.

Fact is, he's playing a lot of minutes when it matters at a high level. But it's besides the point we were discussing. The Spurs medical staff was overruled by the Spurs themselves (when they allowed Kawhi to do his thing in NY with other doctors).

That potential misdiagnosis cost the team basically their entire future (if the mistrust Uncle and timvp allude to is true).

There's a lot at stake to have team doctors that top players clearly won't trust now, considering the Kawhi saga.

[TimmyBuckets]

I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’ve posted in here. I doubt it’s the first time you’ve lied to bolster Kawhi’s malingering.

Indeed

[J_Paco]

Except there's zero evidence to your point. If the indicator for chronic injuries is "load management", then pretty much the entire Spurs roster has chronic injuries.

Fact is, he's playing a lot of minutes when it matters at a high level. But it's besides the point we were discussing. The Spurs medical staff was overruled by the Spurs themselves (when they allowed Kawhi to do his thing in NY with other doctors).

That potential misdiagnosis cost the team basically their entire future (if the mistrust Uncle and timvp allude to is true).

There's a lot at stake to have team doctors that top players clearly won't trust now, considering the Kawhi saga.

Sure, sure, whatever you say.

If you want to go with the Leonard narrative that's fine, but his needing rest and at times limping/laboring on the "misdiagnosed" leg (to the point where media members/former player were questioning if he'd play game 5) is enough "evidence" for me.

Pretty sure the medical staff had some say in relinquishing control of his rehab and were aware of his seeking (multiple) 2nd opinions. Which allegedly found the same issue with his quad,. Giving him that freedom to seek outside opinions and rehabilitation was a bigger blunder than the supposed "misdiagnosis."

No, Leonard feeling "disrespected" and his uncle poisoning his relationship with the team/organization "ruined" their/our future and the njury was used as an excuse to not suit up for a team he "no longer trusted."

Clearly, it hasn't stopped any of the other players from suiting up last season and won't hinder the team in the long - term. It sucks to lose a top 5 in his prime player, but he was likely leaving injury or not.

[313]

Except there's zero evidence to your point. If the indicator for chronic injuries is "load management", then pretty much the entire Spurs roster has chronic injuries.

Fact is, he's playing a lot of minutes when it matters at a high level. But it's besides the point we were discussing. The Spurs medical staff was overruled by the Spurs themselves (when they allowed Kawhi to do his thing in NY with other doctors).

That potential misdiagnosis cost the team basically their entire future (if the mistrust Uncle and timvp allude to is true).

There's a lot at stake to have team doctors that top players clearly won't trust now, considering the Kawhi saga.Most team doctors are okay with second opinions, and will actually encourage it in difficult cases like Kawhi's.

There's plenty of evidence that he's dealing with the same injury (same leg, same lack of explosion, same limp), and no evidence that there was a misdiagnosis. Kawhi's team never released whatever injury those doctors in NY found, probably because it would just corroborate what the SA team doctors said.


“The Spurs were in the dark most of the season,” said Wright on the Back To Back podcast on Thursday (https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/1014969734528471040). “Some of the things that were happening were crazy… There was a point during his rehab process in New York that some of the Spurs brass went out to see him in New York. As soon as those guys arrived to the building, Kawhi’s people grabbed him and sequestered him to another part of the building so the Spurs guys couldn’t see him.”


“Potential suitors for Leonard have no clue how healthy he is, when they may gain permission to talk with his representatives, or how seriously they should take the word of those representatives,” writes Lowe. “Rival executives sniffing around Leonard have joked they would settle for an Instagram workout video, just to know Leonard is fully ambulatory.”

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2018/7/6/17538110/san-antonio-spurs-kawhi-leonard-healthy

:lol the only blame you can put on patfo for this ordeal is signing patty and gasol

[313]

:lol Tony put the nail in the coffin but it was already over by that point anyway

[TimmyBuckets]

:lol the only blame you can put on patfo for this ordeal is signing patty and gasol


:lol Tony put the nail in the coffin but it was already over by that point anyway

Tony a real one.

[J_Paco]

Most team doctors are okay with second opinions, and will actually encourage it in difficult cases like Kawhi's.

There's plenty of evidence that he's dealing with the same injury (same leg, same lack of explosion, same limp), and no evidence that there was a misdiagnosis. Kawhi's team never released whatever injury those doctors in NY found, probably because it would just corroborate what the SA team doctors said.





https://www.poundingtherock.com/2018/7/6/17538110/san-antonio-spurs-kawhi-leonard-healthy

:lol the only blame you can put on patfo for this ordeal is signing patty and gasol

He's being intentionally obtuse, man. No one can be dense enough to believe that Leonard is still (athletically/physically) the same player as 2017. Just let him live with the Leonard was "misdiagnosed" narrative nonsense.

I'm pretty sure the Pistons recovered from nearly ending the career of an in his prime Grant Hill or the Bulls are still in operation after their medical staff's actual misdiagnosis nearly led to the DEATH of Luol Deng. But, no the Spurs telling Leonard he'll need to play with pain and his injury is permanent/chronic is much, much worse than death or a player's career ending.

LOLOLOL

[Spurtacular]

Spurs fans should be proud of Parker for calling out Kawhi. Don't buy the bull shit that Kawhi hadn't already quit on the team.

[ZeusWillJudge]

LOL. I don't think Kawhi ever had any intention of playing for the Spurs last season. Nobody was airing commercials with him in them, because he'd been off the court for so long. That was a problem, since Nike was releasing their Air Jordan Gatorade Collection (right before Christmas). Nike had already shot the commercials, including the one with Kawhi and LaMarcus. And they had their "Bold Like Kawhi" tag line ready to go. But with Kawhi off the floor for so long, it was going to be weak, if not a disaster. That's a lot of money down the tubes.

The answer? Kawhi came back just in time to get a bunch of media buzz about his return, a week or so ahead of the release of the shoes. He played a few more games, spaced out enough to get them through the launch. Kawhi looked rusty, but his leg looked fine - I haven't been able to find a single bit of video showing him limp or even grimace. And then he just packed it in for the rest of the season.

Kawhi came back to get paid. The rest is just smoke and mirrors - manufactured controversy to justify what Dennis wanted to do from the beginning. It was about money and endorsements.

I remembered the article below, but I had to dig a little to find it. It was published about a week after Kawhi's "return" to the court. You can say it's just coincidence that his 9 game return just happened to coincide with the Nike campaign. But that's one hell of a happy coincidence, and I've got some beachfront to sell you.

https://thesportsdaily.com/2017/12/20/kawhi-leonard-dances-at-edm-concert-breaks-board-with-bare-hand-in-new-foot-locker-ad/
"Now that Kawhi Leonard has returned to the court, brands have resumed running promotional ads and videos involving the Spurs star.
Some have been better than others, but the new Foot Locker X Jordan Brand ad video, which was released on Wednesday, is actually pretty great.
In it, Leonard dances on stage at an EDM concert, rocks out in the studio with Nipsey Hussle and destroys a board with his bare hand. You can watch him do those things in the video clip below."

[weeks]

didn't some rich new york jews buy out impact sports around the time all this shit started going south?

it's always about the money

[tenbeersbold]

Lol yes it is, apparently the big investors in Impact Sports that stirred up all this are major NYC property developers Wharton.The founders son is running Impact.
Lmfao don't think LeBron and Klaw will be teaming up any time soon.Heres a screen shot of Impacts boss now locked Twitter.Also rumblings that they arranged for Uncle Dennis some property via shell companies to get Kawhai on board.
https://i.redd.it/zp7ja5lt3l711.jpg

[tenbeersbold]

More locked Twitter from Impacts bosshttps://m.imgur.com/a/054IypQ

[duncan2k5]

I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’ve posted in here. I doubt it’s the first time you’ve lied to bolster Kawhi’s malingering.
Dummy... When I said u have already been exposed I'm talking about earlier in this thread... Ppl posted that Pop didn't come out after the game to defend Kawhi like u were trying to imply when u posted the clip... We were all watching the games, my guy... Ppl were mad at pop for not defending Kawhi... Now u try to rewrite history

[ceperez]

Except there's zero evidence to your point. If the indicator for chronic injuries is "load management", then pretty much the entire Spurs roster has chronic injuries.

Fact is, he's playing a lot of minutes when it matters at a high level. But it's besides the point we were discussing. The Spurs medical staff was overruled by the Spurs themselves (when they allowed Kawhi to do his thing in NY with other doctors).

That potential misdiagnosis cost the team basically their entire future (if the mistrust Uncle and timvp allude to is true).

There's a lot at stake to have team doctors that top players clearly won't trust now, considering the Kawhi saga.

Yeah right... let's quit this BS about trust issues. Everyone is a professional here.

What happened is that Kawhi and his family wanted to go elsewhere, but the way they handled it was unprofessional (not showing up to support the team while in the playoffs).

The reality is... uncle Dennis is always pushing a favorable narrative... ask yourself, why Didn't Kawhi himself say this? It's all PR by the same guy who lost the Nike deal and the Supermax deal.

[Harry Callahan]

Except there's zero evidence to your point. If the indicator for chronic injuries is "load management", then pretty much the entire Spurs roster has chronic injuries.

Fact is, he's playing a lot of minutes when it matters at a high level. But it's besides the point we were discussing. The Spurs medical staff was overruled by the Spurs themselves (when they allowed Kawhi to do his thing in NY with other doctors).

That potential misdiagnosis cost the team basically their entire future (if the mistrust Uncle and timvp allude to is true).

There's a lot at stake to have team doctors that top players clearly won't trust now, considering the Kawhi saga.

The collective bargaining agreement with the players union allows players to get a second opinion, a third opinion, a fourth opinion, a fifth opinion, a sixth opinion, a seventh opinion, and an eighth opinion. The team cannot prevent a player from seeking an outside opinion. The "group" took that and ran up to New York. The "groups" doctors have been in control of KL's rehab for close to two years and he is still having issues. A chronic knee condition. If fact, the rehab Dr. Garrett (referenced in the main Nephew thread) indicated that the patella tendonitis goes all the way back to the guys HIGH SCHOOL playing days. He took a pretty good hit in the same area a long time ago and it has been an issue ever since. Doctor Garrett certainly has contacts and knows more stuff about the situation with his organization contacts. He believes that the knee issue he is dealing with now is the same one he has had for almost a decade. Wear and tear from an eight year NBA career does not help things. The condition was milked by the "group" (the uncle especially) and the holdout of 2017-18 comes to pass. There was no misdiagnosis. The load management tells you there is a chronic condition. One season of basketball in two years (under the care of his own medical people) and there are still issues. Faking an injury might not be the correct wording, but there likely was severe exaggeration last year in San Antonio - especially in March and April when he was well enough to play. The guy did not want to push things and take a chance on a setback last year. The subsequent trade and inordinate rest periods this year prevented the guy from not playing. He had to play this year to have the required demand for his services this summer. Once again a very orchestrated plan.

The rehab doctor (who knows all the people in the know) felt like the whole thing was a holdout designed to poison the relationship between the Spurs and "group" in order to get out of town. He pointed specifically to the Uncle.

The KL group has been scared to death of a major setback during the poorly acted dinner theater production that has been going on the last 2 years. The want their money and they want their preferred team. BTW, as hard as they have tried and as much dumb luck as they have had all season, it probably won't end well long term for the Great White North team - after all it is COLD up there. They could win the whole thing (not expecting it myself) and the guy could still head west and not have an instant of conscience or regret. He did not give two craps about all the fans of San Antonio, did he?

[Harry Callahan]

According to Dr. Jason Garrett of Airrosti, Quitter has patellar tendinitis since he was in high school. This is an injury that he had prior to playing in the NBA. He was kneed in that area which aggravated it. Per Dr. Garrett, he will always have problems with that leg as it is a chronic injury and the Spurs staff were not responsible for something Quitter had as a pre-existing condition. The Spurs did everything right, rested the moron and allowed him to get other opinions/rehab in NY! The lack of trust BS from his money-grubbing Uncle Dennis! Quitter wouldn't even meet with Pop/RC, hiding from them in NY and not even sitting with his team during the playoffs! Spurs did everything they could for this treasonous moron! Throughout this bull, Pop was losing his wife while trying to get the team to the playoffs! I will never forgive Quitter and his Uncle Dennis can go to hell!

To those so-called fake Spur fans kissing Quitter's ass, go to hell! I stand with the Spurs! I bleed silver and black!

Dr. Garrett called our favorite Nephew "#2" and even referenced the double meaning in his interview with Chris Duel. He obviously did not buy the so- called misdiagnosis crap shoveled out by the group. Interesting interview to listen to from just a couple of days ago.

[TDMVPDPOY]

patfo tried to pull a jax lowball extension on him, when he was still getting a fat contract above 15m avg per year for 3yrs

then he was up for supermax or max, too which patfo tried to lowball him again...

fck them 2 wrongs dont make a right patfo...fkn clowns deserve to lose the franchise player

[Twisted_Dawg]

LOL. I don't think Kawhi ever had any intention of playing for the Spurs last season. Nobody was airing commercials with him in them, because he'd been off the court for so long. That was a problem, since Nike was releasing their Air Jordan Gatorade Collection (right before Christmas). Nike had already shot the commercials, including the one with Kawhi and LaMarcus. And they had their "Bold Like Kawhi" tag line ready to go. But with Kawhi off the floor for so long, it was going to be weak, if not a disaster. That's a lot of money down the tubes.

The answer? Kawhi came back just in time to get a bunch of media buzz about his return, a week or so ahead of the release of the shoes. He played a few more games, spaced out enough to get them through the launch. Kawhi looked rusty, but his leg looked fine - I haven't been able to find a single bit of video showing him limp or even grimace. And then he just packed it in for the rest of the season.

Kawhi came back to get paid. The rest is just smoke and mirrors - manufactured controversy to justify what Dennis wanted to do from the beginning. It was about money and endorsements.

I remembered the article below, but I had to dig a little to find it. It was published about a week after Kawhi's "return" to the court. You can say it's just coincidence that his 9 game return just happened to coincide with the Nike campaign. But that's one hell of a happy coincidence, and I've got some beachfront to sell you.

https://thesportsdaily.com/2017/12/20/kawhi-leonard-dances-at-edm-concert-breaks-board-with-bare-hand-in-new-foot-locker-ad/
"Now that Kawhi Leonard has returned to the court, brands have resumed running promotional ads and videos involving the Spurs star.
Some have been better than others, but the new Foot Locker X Jordan Brand ad video, which was released on Wednesday, is actually pretty great.
In it, Leonard dances on stage at an EDM concert, rocks out in the studio with Nipsey Hussle and destroys a board with his bare hand. You can watch him do those things in the video clip below."

Zeus, if this is all true, then it is very damning.

[picnroll]

Zeus, if this is all true, then it is very damning.

Haven’t posted about the bitch for awhile. Trying to forget about him and move on. I can understand him wanting to go back to LA where he grew up to play. What I can’t accept is the way he threw the Spurs and essentially some of the Spurs players under the bus in doing so, not to mention basically stealing multiple millions of dollars in the process. Frankly I’m pissed at Pop for being so “understanding” of the bitch further enabling the bitch and “his group” trashing the franchises reputation. I bet the Spurs medical staff would like to tell Pop to shove the bitch up his ass.

[Brazil]

Nothing better to do while LMA/DDR are on the team, tbh... we're running on pure nostalgia

I guess you are right :lol

Go Warriors Go !

[JeffDuncan]

According to Dr. Jason Garrett of Airrosti, ...

Garrett is a San Antonio area chiropractor. He is not a licensed physician. He has never seen any of Leonard's medical records. He has no medical information about Leonard. He has never consulted on the Leonard case, or on any case requiring a licensed physician. He does not know any more about Leonard's medical condition than the average Spurstalk poster does.

This is not to say Garrett is a bad person or an outright charlatan. But he knows nothing of Leonard's medical condition, and he is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

The following may be notable about the place where he works.

"Airrosti is not enrolled in Medicare and therefore to remain compliant with Federal regulations, we cannot treat any beneficiary of Medicare."

Also, they do not prescribe medications because they are not legally qualified to do so. Nor are they legally able to give injections, not even flu shots.

What Airrosti does is just ordinary chiropractor stuff. Basically, they'll give you a ridiculously expensive backrub.

[JeffDuncan]

...
Kawhi came back to get paid. The rest is just smoke and mirrors - manufactured controversy to justify what Dennis wanted to do from the beginning. It was about money and endorsements.
...

The timing of what you mention is definitely intriguing, but the basic problem with "money as motive" is that the Spurs could have paid him more than any other team.

[exstatic]

Garrett is a San Antonio area chiropractor. He is not a licensed physician. He has never seen any of Leonard's medical records. He has no medical information about Leonard. He has never consulted on the Leonard case, or on any case requiring a licensed physician. He does not know any more about Leonard's medical condition than the average Spurstalk poster does.

This is not to say Garrett is a bad person or an outright charlatan. But he knows nothing of Leonard's medical condition, and he is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

The following may be notable about the place where he works.

"Airrosti is not enrolled in Medicare and therefore to remain compliant with Federal regulations, we cannot treat any beneficiary of Medicare."

Also, they do not prescribe medications because they are not legally qualified to do so. Nor are they legally able to give injections, not even flu shots.

What Airrosti does is just ordinary chiropractor stuff. Basically, they'll give you a ridiculously expensive backrub.

The Spurs have used AIRROSTI in the past. I know for a fact that Parker has been treated by them. Not out of the realm of possibility that Kawhi has, too. As for Medicare, who gives a fuck? That's health coverage for Seniors, and is not pertinent to the discussion at hand.

[exstatic]

The timing of what you mention is definitely intriguing, but the basic problem with "money as motive" is that the Spurs could have paid him more than any other team.

How about "We've already pissed away $40M, and can't afford to lose endorsements, too." You can afford to alienate one team, because there are 30 of them. There are only a few shoe companies, and if the reputation gets established that you're flaking out on them, none of them will hire you.

[duncan2k5]

The collective bargaining agreement with the players union allows players to get a second opinion, a third opinion, a fourth opinion, a fifth opinion, a sixth opinion, a seventh opinion, and an eighth opinion. The team cannot prevent a player from seeking an outside opinion. The "group" took that and ran up to New York. The "groups" doctors have been in control of KL's rehab for close to two years and he is still having issues. A chronic knee condition. If fact, the rehab Dr. Garrett (referenced in the main Nephew thread) indicated that the patella tendonitis goes all the way back to the guys HIGH SCHOOL playing days. He took a pretty good hit in the same area a long time ago and it has been an issue ever since. Doctor Garrett certainly has contacts and knows more stuff about the situation with his organization contacts. He believes that the knee issue he is dealing with now is the same one he has had for almost a decade. Wear and tear from an eight year NBA career does not help things. The condition was milked by the "group" (the uncle especially) and the holdout of 2017-18 comes to pass. There was no misdiagnosis. The load management tells you there is a chronic condition. One season of basketball in two years (under the care of his own medical people) and there are still issues. Faking an injury might not be the correct wording, but there likely was severe exaggeration last year in San Antonio - especially in March and April when he was well enough to play. The guy did not want to push things and take a chance on a setback last year. The subsequent trade and inordinate rest periods this year prevented the guy from not playing. He had to play this year to have the required demand for his services this summer. Once again a very orchestrated plan.

The rehab doctor (who knows all the people in the know) felt like the whole thing was a holdout designed to poison the relationship between the Spurs and "group" in order to get out of town. He pointed specifically to the Uncle.

The KL group has been scared to death of a major setback during the poorly acted dinner theater production that has been going on the last 2 years. The want their money and they want their preferred team. BTW, as hard as they have tried and as much dumb luck as they have had all season, it probably won't end well long term for the Great White North team - after all it is COLD up there. They could win the whole thing (not expecting it myself) and the guy could still head west and not have an instant of conscience or regret. He did not give two craps about all the fans of San Antonio, did he?

U sound like a wild conspiracy theorist... Literally everything u said here was speculation not based in the reality of any universe... And you top it off with KNOWING the players' feelings and motivations... Ok Professor X

[duncan2k5]

Zeus, if this is all true, then it is very damning.

How so? Why would they run ads for a player not playing?

[duncan2k5]

Haven’t posted about the bitch for awhile. Trying to forget about him and move on. I can understand him wanting to go back to LA where he grew up to play. What I can’t accept is the way he threw the Spurs and essentially some of the Spurs players under the bus in doing so, not to mention basically stealing multiple millions of dollars in the process. Frankly I’m pissed at Pop for being so “understanding” of the bitch further enabling the bitch and “his group” trashing the franchises reputation. I bet the Spurs medical staff would like to tell Pop to shove the bitch up his ass.

U have it the other way around... Kawhi was thrown under the bus publicly by current and past spurs players including the coach... The guy has been quiet and classy the entire time

[Harry Callahan]

Garrett is a San Antonio area chiropractor. He is not a licensed physician. He has never seen any of Leonard's medical records. He has no medical information about Leonard. He has never consulted on the Leonard case, or on any case requiring a licensed physician. He does not know any more about Leonard's medical condition than the average Spurstalk poster does.

This is not to say Garrett is a bad person or an outright charlatan. But he knows nothing of Leonard's medical condition, and he is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

The following may be notable about the place where he works.

"Airrosti is not enrolled in Medicare and therefore to remain compliant with Federal regulations, we cannot treat any beneficiary of Medicare."

Also, they do not prescribe medications because they are not legally qualified to do so. Nor are they legally able to give injections, not even flu shots.

What Airrosti does is just ordinary chiropractor stuff. Basically, they'll give you a ridiculously expensive backrub.

Garrett has treated San Antonio Spurs players and former players who happen to also be assistant coaches now who have a lot more information than you do and I do. He stated his opinion on the matter and he has spoken with team players and officials. He would also require guidance from medical personal with the team in those instances - he did not treat Leonard true. He knows people in the loop and stated his opinion on the matter.

What does Medicare have to do with anything anyway? These players aren't on Medicare plans.

[duncan2k5]

Garrett is a San Antonio area chiropractor. He is not a licensed physician. He has never seen any of Leonard's medical records. He has no medical information about Leonard. He has never consulted on the Leonard case, or on any case requiring a licensed physician. He does not know any more about Leonard's medical condition than the average Spurstalk poster does.

This is not to say Garrett is a bad person or an outright charlatan. But he knows nothing of Leonard's medical condition, and he is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

The following may be notable about the place where he works.

"Airrosti is not enrolled in Medicare and therefore to remain compliant with Federal regulations, we cannot treat any beneficiary of Medicare."

Also, they do not prescribe medications because they are not legally qualified to do so. Nor are they legally able to give injections, not even flu shots.

What Airrosti does is just ordinary chiropractor stuff. Basically, they'll give you a ridiculously expensive backrub.

Exactly... But ppl on here want to pretend as if he is some inside source

[duncan2k5]

Garrett has treated San Antonio Spurs players and former players who happen to also be assistant coaches now who have a lot more information than you do and I do. He stated his opinion on the matter and he has spoken with team players and officials. He would also require guidance from medical personal with the team in those instances - he did not treat Leonard true. He knows people in the loop and stated his opinion of the matter.

What does Medicare have to do with anything anyway? These players aren't on Medicare plans.

In other words his biased opinion is based on the biased opinions of others? Gotcha

[K...]

I'd like to find out what Nike thought about Leonard . Just for the lol. It's one thing to piss off a small market team, but the leading shoes maker who own your logo? Pissed off ex agent? I mean even if the Spurs did make some bad choices, Leonard has screwed over a whole path of deal makers who would've made his life easier

[Harry Callahan]

Haven’t posted about the bitch for awhile. Trying to forget about him and move on. I can understand him wanting to go back to LA where he grew up to play. What I can’t accept is the way he threw the Spurs and essentially some of the Spurs players under the bus in doing so, not to mention basically stealing multiple millions of dollars in the process. Frankly I’m pissed at Pop for being so “understanding” of the bitch further enabling the bitch and “his group” trashing the franchises reputation. I bet the Spurs medical staff would like to tell Pop to shove the bitch up his ass.

I find it funny that the ESPN MSM crowd is giving kudos to the medical and training staff of Toronto for all the success of #2 staying on the court for 70% of the season. They have nothing to do with it. The "Group" is running the medical show and how much he plays and the guy is not right as we speak. He will have pain issues the rest of his career but he wants that money now and the choice of location.

The group is just hoping and praying he doesn't break in the next two weeks. We'll see. I given Toronto maybe a 20% chance of retaining him. 25% if they somehow navigate the Rainbow Warriors.

[duncan2k5]

I'd like to find out what Nike thought about Leonard . Just for the lol. It's one thing to piss off a small market team, but the leading shoes maker who own your logo? Pissed off ex agent? I mean even if the Spurs did make some bad choices, Leonard has screwed over a whole path of deal makers who would've made his life easier

So now Nike and these big money hungry corporations are the good guys? I thought we loved when players stuck it to those in power? I guess it's only good when it fits our narrative

[Harry Callahan]

In other words his biased opinion is based on the biased opinions of others? Gotcha

You have an uninformed opinion with bias. Garrett has an informed opinion with bias. So what. You are a reliable, easily triggered one aren't you?

[Dejounte]

You have an uninformed opinion with bias. Garrett has an informed opinion with bias. So what. You are a reliable, easily triggered one aren't you?

Lmao. Got em.

[Harry Callahan]

Bottom line, the tendons still hurt. The guys in pain and always will be as long as he plays basketball. Nothing can change that.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Haven’t posted about the bitch for awhile. Trying to forget about him and move on. I can understand him wanting to go back to LA where he grew up to play. What I can’t accept is the way he threw the Spurs and essentially some of the Spurs players under the bus in doing so, not to mention basically stealing multiple millions of dollars in the process. Frankly I’m pissed at Pop for being so “understanding” of the bitch further enabling the bitch and “his group” trashing the franchises reputation. I bet the Spurs medical staff would like to tell Pop to shove the bitch up his ass.

It's all there and easy enough to verify. Look at the dates on the Nike press releases and commercials. Then look at his game logs. I didn't fake the dates on the documents. Don't believe me, go look for yourself.




The timing of what you mention is definitely intriguing, but the basic problem with "money as motive" is that the Spurs could have paid him more than any other team.


First of all, what I said was that money was the motive for the mysterious 9-day return and subsequent bail-out. He HAD to get back on the court ahead of the Nike promotion. Not just so that he could get paid, but to satisfy Nike who had already invested a shitload in that product release. What... you don't think Nike has any influence in the sports world?

You do understand that he left the super-max on the table anyway?
He's going to make a hell of a lot more off of a long term relationship with Nike.

He was leaving, no matter what. He came back right before the Nike commercials and product release. He played well - rusty, but he ran floor, and absorbed contact, and threw down massive dunks. And he looked good in front of the cameras.
He never showed ANY signs that his leg was hurting. He did the longest post-game interviews he'd ever done. And every interview with every other Spurs player, and with Pop, were all asking about Kawhi. Then the commercials came out, and Nike got everything they paid for, plus some.

I think Pop smelled a rat. Go back and look at his comments and his demeanor during that time. Then look at how frustrated he looked when he announced that they were "shutting him down indefinitely". By that time he figured out that Kawhi had no intention of coming back to the Spurs. (That last bit is just speculation on my part. The rest is on the record and out there for anyone to see.)

[picnroll]

U have it the other way around... Kawhi was thrown under the bus publicly by current and past spurs players including the coach... The guy has been quiet and classy the entire time
Poor little flower. Tony said his completely torn hamstring was worse than nephew’s booboo. How was bitch doing clinics in China and comes back barely able to walk?

[Twisted_Dawg]

I'd like to find out what Nike thought about Leonard . Just for the lol. It's one thing to piss off a small market team, but the leading shoes maker who own your logo? Pissed off ex agent? I mean even if the Spurs did make some bad choices, Leonard has screwed over a whole path of deal makers who would've made his life easier

IIRC Nike made the Leonard Group an offer on an shoe extension, which was turned down by the Group as too low. When the contract ended, Leonard signed with New Balance. I believe Nike had a contractual right to match the NB offer and maintain Leonard, but they passed.

[look_at_g_shred]

Bottom line, the tendons still hurt. The guys in pain and always will be as long as he plays basketball. Nothing can change that.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Re Dr. Jason Garrett, I think he is a doctor of chiropractic, and not a medical doctor, nor a ortho or surgeon. Nor do I believe he ever examined Leonard or reviewed the medical reports. So perhaps a bit of caution on quoting his opinion?

[ZeusWillJudge]

IIRC Nike made the Leonard Group an offer on an shoe extension, which was turned down by the Group as too low. When the contract ended, Leonard signed with New Balance. I believe Nike had a contractual right to match the NB offer and maintain Leonard, but they passed.


Just so the stories don't get tangled, Kawhi's contract with Nike ended in October 2018, just about the time Kawhi first hit the court in a Raptors' jersey. Back during the time all this was going on, and for almost a year afterward, Kawhi was getting paid by Nike.

Nike (Jordan Brands) offered Nephew a 4-year $22Million deal, and he turned them down to go with New Balance.

[exstatic]

Re Dr. Jason Garrett, I think he is a doctor of chiropractic, and not a medical doctor, nor a ortho or surgeon. Nor do I believe he ever examined Leonard or reviewed the medical reports. So perhaps a bit of caution on quoting his opinion?

AIRROSTI has a relationship with the Spurs, and they specialize in tissue injuries. Guess what Kawhi has? His opinion is much more pertinent than that of the Kawhi knob slobberer crowd. Oh, and I don't care what you believe. You don't know if he treated or reviewed his records or not, so stop throwing shade at him without knowing.

[K...]

IIRC Nike made the Leonard Group an offer on an shoe extension, which was turned down by the Group as too low. When the contract ended, Leonard signed with New Balance. I believe Nike had a contractual right to match the NB offer and maintain Leonard, but they passed.

Yeah we know that, but it's easy to imagine them providing damning testimony about Leonard's asks and negotiations. If he was unprofessional towards them, it supports the Spurs claims that Leonard poisoned the well.

He's a top 3 player, but a bottom 50 personality. For Leonard it doesn't make sense: he leaves Nike over $$$, but for the Spurs it was not about $$$$¿. The Spurs are like the new balance of the NBA and had the $$$ to back it up.

[JeffDuncan]

The Spurs have used AIRROSTI in the past. I know for a fact that Parker has been treated by them. Not out of the realm of possibility that Kawhi has, too. As for Medicare, who gives a fuck? That's health coverage for Seniors, and is not pertinent to the discussion at hand.

The reason why you don't see the point of the Medicare mention is because you're so ignorant of this whole subject. Per a medicare website search, there are in fact more than 10 chiropractic clinics within 15 miles of where I live that do qualify to receive Medicare payments. The federal requirements are obviously not too high. But Airrosti hasn't qualified. It's a clear statement that Airrosti is extremely low level in medical status, when they don't even meet the standards that most chiropractic clinics do.

That's why it's pertinent, dummy.

Jason Garrett, DC, is not a physician, and he has no medical knowledge that would enable him to render a valid medical opinion about Kawhi Leonard.

[Harry Callahan]

Garrett knows people. He has a company with over 200 rehab clinics. He is a mover and a shaker and is a spurs season ticket holder - not the cheap ones either in all likelihood. Kawhi stole some of his season ticket money over the last 2 years.

[J_Paco]

Dr. Garrett called our favorite Nephew "#2" and even referenced the double meaning in his interview with Chris Duel. He obviously did not buy the so- called misdiagnosis crap shoveled out by the group. Interesting interview to listen to from just a couple of days ago.

Yo, where can I find the interview with the rehab doctor and why, oh, why hasn't this been mainstream news?

[exstatic]

The reason why you don't see the point of the Medicare mention is because you're so ignorant of this whole subject. Per a medicare website search, there are in fact more than 10 chiropractic clinics within 15 miles of where I live that do qualify to receive Medicare payments. The federal requirements are obviously not too high. But Airrosti hasn't qualified. It's a clear statement that Airrosti is extremely low level in medical status, when they don't even meet the standards that most chiropractic clinics do.

That's why it's pertinent, dummy.

Jason Garrett, DC, is not a physician, and he has no medical knowledge that would enable him to render a valid medical opinion about Kawhi Leonard.

Did you know that there are medical practices that don't WANT to deal with Medicare? That includes physicians, too...dummy.

[Harry Callahan]

Duncan if Garrett is so unqualifed why would becky hammon and tony parker use his services? They must not have been too concerned about the medicare requirements. BTW i have family members who go to a geriatric specialist who wont accept medicare because it does not pay well enough or quickly enough.

[Twisted_Dawg]

AIRROSTI has a relationship with the Spurs, and they specialize in tissue injuries. Guess what Kawhi has? His opinion is much more pertinent than that of the Kawhi knob slobberer crowd. Oh, and I don't care what you believe. You don't know if he treated or reviewed his records or not, so stop throwing shade at him without knowing.

Dude, I'm not throwing shade. I'm actually more in the "Kawhi fucked the Spurs " group than " Kawhi is a victim" group. However, I try to be objective and fair in my analysis.

[Harry Callahan]

Yo, where can I find the interview with the rehab doctor and why, oh, why hasn't this been mainstream news?
Chris duel show pod cast 760 station in SA. Done about a week ago.

[JeffDuncan]

Did you know that there are medical practices that don't WANT to deal with Medicare? That includes physicians, too...dummy.

Garrett does not have a "medical practice" because he is not a physician, dummy.

[pad300]

Re Dr. Jason Garrett, I think he is a doctor of chiropractic, and not a medical doctor, nor a ortho or surgeon. Nor do I believe he ever examined Leonard or reviewed the medical reports. So perhaps a bit of caution on quoting his opinion?


AIRROSTI has a relationship with the Spurs, and they specialize in tissue injuries. Guess what Kawhi has? His opinion is much more pertinent than that of the Kawhi knob slobberer crowd. Oh, and I don't care what you believe. You don't know if he treated or reviewed his records or not, so stop throwing shade at him without knowing.

I'd say it's pretty likely that Garrett has not treated Leonard. If he had, offering a public opinion at this point would be unprofessional as hell, and maybe the kind of ethical violation that could get you in trouble with licensing...

[pad300]

The reason why you don't see the point of the Medicare mention is because you're so ignorant of this whole subject. Per a medicare website search, there are in fact more than 10 chiropractic clinics within 15 miles of where I live that do qualify to receive Medicare payments. The federal requirements are obviously not too high. But Airrosti hasn't qualified. It's a clear statement that Airrosti is extremely low level in medical status, when they don't even meet the standards that most chiropractic clinics do.

That's why it's pertinent, dummy.

Jason Garrett, DC, is not a physician, and he has no medical knowledge that would enable him to render a valid medical opinion about Kawhi Leonard.

You don't understand how many things work, do you? In actual fact, it's the HIGH END clinics that don't deal with medicare - because medicare's reimbursement schedule is less than what they can get away with charging on the open market...

[JeffDuncan]

Garrett knows people. He has a company with over 200 rehab clinics. ...

Airrosti is a franchise operation for chiropractic offices that don't even meet basic federal standards for Medicare. They're high toned massage parlors with medical pretensions.

[JeffDuncan]

I'd say it's pretty likely that Garrett has not treated Leonard. If he had, offering a public opinion at this point would be unprofessional as hell, and maybe the kind of ethical violation that could get you in trouble with licensing...

Garrett can't lose a license he doesn't have. He is not a physician. He does not know enough to give a valid medical opinion about Leonard or anybody else.

[Harry Callahan]

Airrosti is a franchise operation for chiropractic offices that don't even meet basic federal standards for Medicare. They're high toned massage parlors with medical pretensions.

Is it impossible for Garrett to know something about the situation that maybe you or I don't know? Let's say he was a lawyer or an accountant, he might know something.

The medicare thing is irrelevant to his information and his direct knowledge of this situation. You do understand that he has worked directly with San Antonio personnel and staff. Why is his information NOT valid? Medicare has nothing to do with that.

[pad300]

Re Dr. Jason Garrett, I think he is a doctor of chiropractic, and not a medical doctor, nor a ortho or surgeon. Nor do I believe he ever examined Leonard or reviewed the medical reports. So perhaps a bit of caution on quoting his opinion?


Garrett can't lose a license he doesn't have. He is not a physician. He does not know enough to give a valid medical opinion about Leonard or anybody else.

You think chiropractors don't have licensing boards?

https://chiropracticlicense.org/texas-tx-chiropractic-license-renewal-verification-reciprocity-application/

I repeat, you don't know how a lot of things work....

[MultiTroll]

Duncan if Garrett is so unqualifed why would becky hammon and tony parker use his services?
Spinal adjustments.

[RC_Drunkford]

LOL. I don't think Kawhi ever had any intention of playing for the Spurs last season. Nobody was airing commercials with him in them, because he'd been off the court for so long. That was a problem, since Nike was releasing their Air Jordan Gatorade Collection (right before Christmas). Nike had already shot the commercials, including the one with Kawhi and LaMarcus. And they had their "Bold Like Kawhi" tag line ready to go. But with Kawhi off the floor for so long, it was going to be weak, if not a disaster. That's a lot of money down the tubes.

The answer? Kawhi came back just in time to get a bunch of media buzz about his return, a week or so ahead of the release of the shoes. He played a few more games, spaced out enough to get them through the launch. Kawhi looked rusty, but his leg looked fine - I haven't been able to find a single bit of video showing him limp or even grimace. And then he just packed it in for the rest of the season.

Kawhi came back to get paid. The rest is just smoke and mirrors - manufactured controversy to justify what Dennis wanted to do from the beginning. It was about money and endorsements.

I remembered the article below, but I had to dig a little to find it. It was published about a week after Kawhi's "return" to the court. You can say it's just coincidence that his 9 game return just happened to coincide with the Nike campaign. But that's one hell of a happy coincidence, and I've got some beachfront to sell you.

https://thesportsdaily.com/2017/12/20/kawhi-leonard-dances-at-edm-concert-breaks-board-with-bare-hand-in-new-foot-locker-ad/
"Now that Kawhi Leonard has returned to the court, brands have resumed running promotional ads and videos involving the Spurs star.
Some have been better than others, but the new Foot Locker X Jordan Brand ad video, which was released on Wednesday, is actually pretty great.
In it, Leonard dances on stage at an EDM concert, rocks out in the studio with Nipsey Hussle and destroys a board with his bare hand. You can watch him do those things in the video clip below."

wow..smh...so that was the reason for those 9 games

[JeffDuncan]

Is it impossible for Garrett to know something about the situation that maybe you or I don't know? ...

Garrett is NOT A PHYSICIAN. He is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

[Fusternino]

As far as using actual medicine, chiropractors are above massagists but below actual physical therapists.

[Fusternino]

But yeah, the Nike angle looks very suspicious and is likely true.

[JeffDuncan]

You think chiropractors don't have licensing boards?


Garrett is not a physician.

Cosmetologists have licensing boards. Tell you what, if you feel a pain in your lower abdomen go to the nearest beauty parlor and ask them to take out your appendix.

[exstatic]

Garrett is NOT A PHYSICIAN. He is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

If you go to TX med clinic, half the time or more you do not see an MD, you see a PA. Being an MD is not the be all and end all, or exclusive domain of medical treatment, dummy.

in 2009: Aetna, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas, and UHC-OptumHealth add Airrosti as an in-network benefit.

[JeffDuncan]

If you go to TX med clinic, half the time or more you do not see an MD, you see a PA. Being an MD is not the be all and end all, ...

It is the be all and end all when you're talking about a second opinion on an injury that had earlier been diagnosed by an MD, you moron.

[exstatic]

It is the be all and end all when you're talking about a second opinion on an injury that had earlier been diagnosed by an MD, you moron.

Where are you getting that he's the second opinion? He's not. He is, however, a health care provider for an organization that the Spurs have used in the past that SPECIALIZES in soft tissue injury, and as such, is qualified to speak to long term injury issues....dummy.

[sammy]

Garrett is a San Antonio area chiropractor. He is not a licensed physician. He has never seen any of Leonard's medical records. He has no medical information about Leonard. He has never consulted on the Leonard case, or on any case requiring a licensed physician. He does not know any more about Leonard's medical condition than the average Spurstalk poster does.

This is not to say Garrett is a bad person or an outright charlatan. But he knows nothing of Leonard's medical condition, and he is not qualified to render a medical opinion.

The following may be notable about the place where he works.

"Airrosti is not enrolled in Medicare and therefore to remain compliant with Federal regulations, we cannot treat any beneficiary of Medicare."

Also, they do not prescribe medications because they are not legally qualified to do so. Nor are they legally able to give injections, not even flu shots.

What Airrosti does is just ordinary chiropractor stuff. Basically, they'll give you a ridiculously expensive backrub.

Airrosti is not a chiropractic facility. Airrosti is a sports medicine rehabilitation. The staff are doctors! Dr. Garrett knows his medical history or he wouldn't have disclosed it and he may have treated him the past! They helped rehab Tony Parker and Becky Hammon from sports injuries. I went there for treatment of my plantar fasciitis and I am able to walk. I know you want to give Quitter excuses and blame the Spurs for everything but take off your hero worship glasses and realize this loser wanted out and they are trying to blame the Spurs for their horrible PR debacle!

[RC_Drunkford]

Uncle Dennis could've just told Kawhi to play so Nike can run these adds, in hope to get a bigger offer from Jordan Brand for his next shoe deal. Then when they only offered 22 million and they wanted their own shoe, but couldn't get it, he went with New Balance. Only idiots like duncan2k5 would think that he couldn't play last year

[JeffDuncan]

Where are you getting that he's the second opinion? He's not. He is, however, a health care provider for an organization that the Spurs have used in the past that SPECIALIZES in soft tissue injury, and as such, is qualified to speak to long term injury issues....dummy.

He is not any more qualified to speak on the subject than the average parakeet because he is not an MD, you poor, crazy, lying nitwit.

And no, that is not an organization the Spurs use. You are lying about that, too. Parker went there on his own based on a personal recommendation from another player at the time, Finley. It was not a Spurs decision.

Stop lying.

[Genovaswitness]

I’d trust the guy at LA fitness over some alignment obsessed retard. chiropractors are quacks

[duncan2k5]

It's all there and easy enough to verify. Look at the dates on the Nike press releases and commercials. Then look at his game logs. I didn't fake the dates on the documents. Don't believe me, go look for yourself.






First of all, what I said was that money was the motive for the mysterious 9-day return and subsequent bail-out. He HAD to get back on the court ahead of the Nike promotion. Not just so that he could get paid, but to satisfy Nike who had already invested a shitload in that product release. What... you don't think Nike has any influence in the sports world?

You do understand that he left the super-max on the table anyway?
He's going to make a hell of a lot more off of a long term relationship with Nike.

He was leaving, no matter what. He came back right before the Nike commercials and product release. He played well - rusty, but he ran floor, and absorbed contact, and threw down massive dunks. And he looked good in front of the cameras.
He never showed ANY signs that his leg was hurting. He did the longest post-game interviews he'd ever done. And every interview with every other Spurs player, and with Pop, were all asking about Kawhi. Then the commercials came out, and Nike got everything they paid for, plus some.

I think Pop smelled a rat. Go back and look at his comments and his demeanor during that time. Then look at how frustrated he looked when he announced that they were "shutting him down indefinitely". By that time he figured out that Kawhi had no intention of coming back to the Spurs. (That last bit is just speculation on my part. The rest is on the record and out there for anyone to see.)

This makes no sense... Athletes with endorsements get injured ALL the time... They don't lose their endorsements as a result

[duncan2k5]

Poor little flower. Tony said his completely torn hamstring was worse than nephew’s booboo. How was bitch doing clinics in China and comes back barely able to walk?

Yea... Tony sure looked good rushing back from his injury

[duncan2k5]

AIRROSTI has a relationship with the Spurs, and they specialize in tissue injuries. Guess what Kawhi has? His opinion is much more pertinent than that of the Kawhi knob slobberer crowd. Oh, and I don't care what you believe. You don't know if he treated or reviewed his records or not, so stop throwing shade at him without knowing.

If he treated Kawhi, he would have said it... That doctor doesn't know shit

[duncan2k5]

Garrett knows people. He has a company with over 200 rehab clinics. He is a mover and a shaker and is a spurs season ticket holder - not the cheap ones either in all likelihood. Kawhi stole some of his season ticket money over the last 2 years.

So did every other spur on the injury list... And so did pop who sat healthy players

[duncan2k5]

But yeah, the Nike angle looks very suspicious and is likely true.

What's suspicious about it? It's not like Kawhi wouldn't have gotten paid... He gained nothing from playing those 9 games with regards to the contract... Them choosing to play his commercials when he started playing was strategy... They have to actually pay to run those commercials... It would be stupid to run commercials of a guy not playing...

[duncan2k5]

He is not any more qualified to speak on the subject than the average parakeet because he is not an MD, you poor, crazy, lying nitwit.

And no, that is not an organization the Spurs use. You are lying about that, too. Parker went there on his own based on a personal recommendation from another player at the time, Finley. It was not a Spurs decision.

Stop lying.

U realize killing them with facts and logic... And that parakeet line had me in tears!

[ZeusWillJudge]

This makes no sense... Athletes with endorsements get injured ALL the time... They don't lose their endorsements as a result


I never said he "lost his endorsements", fucktard. Read - I said his deal with Nike ended almost a year later, didn't I?

His commercials weren't airing, because he hadn't played in the better part of a year. The talking heads on the sports shows were starting to openly question his future in the league. (I'm sure I can dig up clips, if you're too lazy to look for yourself.) I don't think a "Bold Like Kawhi" campaign was going to play too well, when he wasn't even sitting behind the team bench.

The Spurs had been saying that he was medically cleared to play. But HIS medical team said he wasn't. Then they suddenly said that he could play... just in time for him to Pimp the new Nikes. And he came out and ran, jumped, and banged, and never showed any signs of pain or disability. Then, when the campaign was successfully launched, he just... disappeared. No explanation other than a very disgusted Pop saying that he was out indefinitely. I posted video of his last game - you tell us where you see him even flinch when he comes down hard on that leg.

You don't understand because you don't want to understand.

[SpurSpike]

This thread should have stayed in the Kawhi official news thread, its become just another toxic place for Kawhi suckers... Its not even really new information, just stuff we already knew Uncle was thinking or would say about Kawhi/Spurs.

[ZeusWillJudge]

What's suspicious about it? It's not like Kawhi wouldn't have gotten paid... He gained nothing from playing those 9 games with regards to the contract... Them choosing to play his commercials when he started playing was strategy... They have to actually pay to run those commercials... It would be stupid to run commercials of a guy not playing...


The launch was already planned and announced, fucktard. Kawhi's "people" cleared him to play for the launch, not the other way around. But you're right. It would be stupid to air commercials of a guy not playing. Which is why TheSportsDaily mentioned that nobody was airing his commercials. You proved my point.

And, yes, he had something to gain. First of all, most endorsement deals don't include doing commercials. They represent their sponsors, and the sponsors get to use the athlete's image. But they don't get to call the guy and say, "Come shoot another commercial" any time they want. I don't know how Kawhi's contract was structured, but it's not unlimited access for a flat fee. More important, Kawhi's deal with Nike was coming up for renewal. Taking care of your sponsor is what you do when you're going to be looking for a new deal. If he lets their new shoe launch twist in the wind, how do you think they deal with him next time?

Think. Then post.

[Beartrucci]

Think. Then post.

It wouldn't be Spurstalk if everyone did that.

[weebo]

U realize killing them with facts and logic... And that parakeet line had me in tears!

You're the same dumbass who said Larry Brown has never won a champion...sit your dumb ass down son

[weebo]

The launch was already planned and announced, fucktard. Kawhi's "people" cleared him to play for the launch, not the other way around. But you're right. It would be stupid to air commercials of a guy not playing. Which is why TheSportsDaily mentioned that nobody was airing his commercials. You proved my point.

And, yes, he had something to gain. First of all, most endorsement deals don't include doing commercials. They represent their sponsors, and the sponsors get to use the athlete's image. But they don't get to call the guy and say, "Come shoot another commercial" any time they want. I don't know how Kawhi's contract was structured, but it's not unlimited access for a flat fee. More important, Kawhi's deal with Nike was coming up for renewal. Taking care of your sponsor is what you do when you're going to be looking for a new deal. If he lets their new shoe launch twist in the wind, how do you think they deal with him next time?

Think. Then post.

Conspiracy no doubt but absolutely plausible.

[JeffDuncan]

...
The Spurs had been saying that he was medically cleared to play. But HIS medical team said he wasn't. Then they suddenly said that he could play... just in time for him to Pimp the new Nikes. ...

The timing is suspicious. You're right about that. It could explain why Leonard played during that particular time period.

About the doctors tho. Doctors are advisors. They give an opinion, but they don't make any final decision.

It was always up to Leonard, himself, to decide if he could play, and it was his responsibility to inform Coach Pop if he could. Then it was up to Coach Pop to decide if he would include Leonard on the active roster and use him in a game. Any doctors involved were just consultants in all that.

I wanted to mention that just because it's so easy for everyone - I don't mean you - to exaggerate the role of the docs. The ultimate decision was always between Leonard and Coach Pop.

[ZeusWillJudge]

The timing is suspicious. You're right about that. It could explain why Leonard played during that particular time period.

About the doctors tho. Doctors are advisors. They give an opinion, but they don't make any final decision.

It was always up to Leonard, himself, to decide if he could play, and it was his responsibility to inform Coach Pop if he could. Then it was up to Coach Pop to decide if he would include Leonard on the active roster and use him in a game. Any doctors involved were just consultants in all that.

I wanted to mention that just because it's so easy for everyone - I don't mean you - to exaggerate the role of the docs. The ultimate decision was always between Leonard and Coach Pop.


Sure. But as long as his medical guys were saying he couldn't play, there was no way Pop was going to demand he get on the floor. The Spurs, and Pop, have always been very cautious when it comes to player health.

Come to think of it though, I've never had a chance to see how player insurance is written. But if a doctor (any doctor) says a player isn't medically fit to play, and the team puts him on the court anyway, I bet the policy wouldn't cover if he got badly injured. If that's right, that would be the next thing to the doctor having the last word, because nobody would take that chance. What's for certain is that Pop didn't put Nephew back on the floor until HIS medical team said it was okay. And they just "happened" to decide he was well enough to play right when the Nike campaign was about to be released. I don't claim to have any inside information, but I just don't believe in that much coincidence - especially when there are millions of dollars involved.

[JeffDuncan]

Airrosti is not a chiropractic facility. ...

Yes it is, fool.


The staff are doctors!

They are not, fool.


Dr. Garrett knows his medical history ...

No, he does not know Leonard's medical history, fool.


I went there for treatment of my plantar fasciitis and I am able to walk. ...

That's nice. And they told you they were "doctors," which you understood as not meaning chiropractors, but rather MDs, or at least they gave you that strong impression, so you're repeating it here, you say? If that is true, they should be reported to the Attorney General. In Texas, it is a serious violation of the law to pretend to be an MD when someone is not.

Is that why you're posting, to provide public evidence that Airrosti may have committed a serious violation of Texas law?

You are not doing them any favors here, kiddo, with things like that. If you truly appreciate the service you received, you should not make public statements implying they may have broken the law.

Look at this. I'm now defending Airrosti, while you're trying to send whoever treated you to prison. Weird.

Stop it.


I know you want to give Quitter excuses and blame the Spurs for everything ...

You have totally misunderstood. That is not why I am posting here. Here, I am posting simply on the point of what's medically valid, versus what is not. It's an important distinction, unless you're cool with having your kidney transplant done by a dental assistant.

What I think about Leonard and the Spurs. If you want to know. My view of the Leonard situation, regardless of the injury dispute, and all the huge cloud of hot air, is that when he ceased participating in basketball activities for the Spurs, the Spurs should have stopped paying him.

I don't know the details of Leonard's contract with the Spurs. But I'm sure it's a payment-for-services type of arrangement. And it has to be about basketball and basketball-related activities on behalf of the Spurs. It has to be.

My criticism of the Spurs boils down to what I view as an unsound business practice. They kept paying a guy who wasn't doing what he contracted to do. Too late now, but they shouldn't have done that.

It's a free country. Somebody wants to leave, sure, he can leave. Totally fine, no problem, it's the American way. But you don't have to pay him after he leaves. When the Spurs did, they made a multi-million dollar mistake. The point where they cut him off should probably have been when he went to New York after the nine games he played. Hindsight is 20/20 of course. Too late now. But the Spurs had every right to stop paying him. No service, no payment.

The Spurs have gotten too free and easy with their money in recent times. In my opinion. There's the money to Leonard they weren't obligated to pay - in my opinion - when he ceased participating. There's the astoundingly generous contract to Mills, far beyond his market value. In my opinion. When they did trade Leonard, they traded him for a lesser player but a more expensive contract than Leonard's last one. There's been a couple other things they've done, as well.

It just doesn't look like sound business to me, what the Spurs have been doing. I'd like to see my Spurs return to title contention, but that's going to be a long haul if they keep throwing so dang much money down the rathole. As I see it. So now you know "the bottom line" of what I think of all this.

[apalisoc_9]

timvp should merge this with the kawhi thread.

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

You're the same dumbass who said Larry Brown has never won a champion...sit your dumb ass down son

Sounds about right lol

[jmard5]

timvp should merge this with the kawhi thread.

Agree.

[JeffDuncan]

Sure. But as long as his medical guys were saying he couldn't play, there was no way Pop was going to demand he get on the floor. ...


I don't know that Pop ever had any direct communication, himself, with the docs in N.Y. I have the impression, from media statements, that he didn't.

Pop was relying on Leonard to tell him directly if Leonard was good to go or not. My impression, from media statements, is that Leonard was not keeping Pop informed.


The Spurs, and Pop, have always been very cautious when it comes to player health.

I believe their reputation for that is well deserved.


Come to think of it though, I've never had a chance to see how player insurance is written. But if a doctor (any doctor) says a player isn't medically fit to play, and the team puts him on the court anyway, I bet the policy wouldn't cover if he got badly injured. ...

I don't know what the insurance policies say, either, but I doubt they say that. For one thing, the very best medical advice that could be given to any NBA player is, "don't do that," because injuries are universal in the sport of NBA basketball. Basically, all the players get hurt, sooner or later, and the insurers don't need to ask a doctor to know it. The insurers probably handle it by making the cost of the insurance very high, rather than relying on any individual medical consultations. I suspect it's just beastly expensive insurance.


What's for certain is that Pop didn't put Nephew back on the floor until HIS medical team said it was okay. ...

I believe it was when Leonard, himself, told Pop it was ok.

But that does not contradict what you wrote about the timing. Indeed, it tends more to support your argument, because it was Leonard himself who was paid by Nike, and not his doctors of course.

I don't think Leonard, himself, is that conniving, or whatever you'd call it. From him personally, I can't see it. But he does have various people around him, including his now-infamous uncle. Among those characters, I could see it.

[duncan2k5]

I never said he "lost his endorsements", fucktard. Read - I said his deal with Nike ended almost a year later, didn't I?

His commercials weren't airing, because he hadn't played in the better part of a year. The talking heads on the sports shows were starting to openly question his future in the league. (I'm sure I can dig up clips, if you're too lazy to look for yourself.) I don't think a "Bold Like Kawhi" campaign was going to play too well, when he wasn't even sitting behind the team bench.

The Spurs had been saying that he was medically cleared to play. But HIS medical team said he wasn't. Then they suddenly said that he could play... just in time for him to Pimp the new Nikes. And he came out and ran, jumped, and banged, and never showed any signs of pain or disability. Then, when the campaign was successfully launched, he just... disappeared. No explanation other than a very disgusted Pop saying that he was out indefinitely. I posted video of his last game - you tell us where you see him even flinch when he comes down hard on that leg.

You don't understand because you don't want to understand.

U sound stupid as fuck... Ur claiming the marketing strategy wouldn't work because he wasn't sitting on the bench with the team, so they brought him out for the 9 games...
1. Why would Kawhi play if he is still making his money... He wouldn't lose the endorsement by not playing

2. He wasn't sitting on the bench toward the end of the season... So u claiming that's the reason they didn't run the ads is a lie, because the ads were run in the first half of the season... Liar

[duncan2k5]

The launch was already planned and announced, fucktard. Kawhi's "people" cleared him to play for the launch, not the other way around. But you're right. It would be stupid to air commercials of a guy not playing. Which is why TheSportsDaily mentioned that nobody was airing his commercials. You proved my point.

And, yes, he had something to gain. First of all, most endorsement deals don't include doing commercials. They represent their sponsors, and the sponsors get to use the athlete's image. But they don't get to call the guy and say, "Come shoot another commercial" any time they want. I don't know how Kawhi's contract was structured, but it's not unlimited access for a flat fee. More important, Kawhi's deal with Nike was coming up for renewal. Taking care of your sponsor is what you do when you're going to be looking for a new deal. If he lets their new shoe launch twist in the wind, how do you think they deal with him next time?

Think. Then post.

I can't believe you're this dumb... Athletes get injured ALL the time and don't lose their endorsements... Kawhi would not have had to do anything to please anyone because he wouldn't have lost his endorsement... Just like every other athlete

[KenMcCoy]

I can't believe you're this dumb... Athletes get injured ALL the time and don't lose their endorsements... Kawhi would not have had to do anything to please anyone because he wouldn't have lost his endorsement... Just like every other athlete

He'd still have the base endorsement rate if he was injured, but wouldn't get any cut of his branded logo shoe/apparel sales. Here's an article from 2017 that shows most shoe contract money is in the sales royalties and bonuses from sales...not the actual multi-year contract amount that is announced.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/06/09/the-nbas-biggest-shoe-deals/#39e9a1811520

"The headline numbers on new shoe deals are often inflated and include bonuses and optimistic royalty payouts. The yearly guarantees are often much lower and can include reductions if sales tank...

Durant’s seven-year, rookie shoe deal with Nike was worth $60 million (bonuses added millions more when sales took off and Durant won a league MVP and four scoring titles). He inked a 10-year extension with the sportswear giant in 2014 worth as much as $300 million, including royalties."

This is the first time I've seen Zeus' take on the situation, but it helps make the short 9 game comeback make sense to me. If Nike doesn't air the commercials, his shoes/branded apparel won't have a chance at selling well and earning him those royalty checks.

[BSfromTX]

Yea... Tony sure looked good rushing back from his injury

You know Tony's age was more of a factor rather than "rushing back too soon"

You really lose any credibility on takes like this

[Dejounte]

You know Tony's age was more of a factor rather than "rushing back too soon"

You really lose any credibility on takes like this

He still had any credibility? This dude lost all credibility a long time ago.

[ducks]

timvp should merge this with the kawhi thread.

Yeah he should talk orders from you

[Joseph Kony]

you're all dumb. gtfover it already

[tholdren]

you're all dumb. gtfover it already

No

[Joseph Kony]

No
https://media1.tenor.com/images/949f42b13894d3865614b1e08d7177db/tenor.gif

[tholdren]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/949f42b13894d3865614b1e08d7177db/tenor.gif

Sad you still watch this, and feel such a need to respond.... keep it up

[ElNono]

Sure, sure, whatever you say.

If you want to go with the Leonard narrative that's fine, but his needing rest and at times limping/laboring on the "misdiagnosed" leg (to the point where media members/former player were questioning if he'd play game 5) is enough "evidence" for me.

Pretty sure the medical staff had some say in relinquishing control of his rehab and were aware of his seeking (multiple) 2nd opinions. Which allegedly found the same issue with his quad,. Giving him that freedom to seek outside opinions and rehabilitation was a bigger blunder than the supposed "misdiagnosis."

No, Leonard feeling "disrespected" and his uncle poisoning his relationship with the team/organization "ruined" their/our future and the njury was used as an excuse to not suit up for a team he "no longer trusted."

Clearly, it hasn't stopped any of the other players from suiting up last season and won't hinder the team in the long - term. It sucks to lose a top 5 in his prime player, but he was likely leaving injury or not.


Most team doctors are okay with second opinions, and will actually encourage it in difficult cases like Kawhi's.

There's plenty of evidence that he's dealing with the same injury (same leg, same lack of explosion, same limp), and no evidence that there was a misdiagnosis. Kawhi's team never released whatever injury those doctors in NY found, probably because it would just corroborate what the SA team doctors said.





https://www.poundingtherock.com/2018/7/6/17538110/san-antonio-spurs-kawhi-leonard-healthy

:lol the only blame you can put on patfo for this ordeal is signing patty and gasol


He's being intentionally obtuse, man. No one can be dense enough to believe that Leonard is still (athletically/physically) the same player as 2017. Just let him live with the Leonard was "misdiagnosed" narrative nonsense.

I'm pretty sure the Pistons recovered from nearly ending the career of an in his prime Grant Hill or the Bulls are still in operation after their medical staff's actual misdiagnosis nearly led to the DEATH of Luol Deng. But, no the Spurs telling Leonard he'll need to play with pain and his injury is permanent/chronic is much, much worse than death or a player's career ending.

LOLOLOL


Yeah right... let's quit this BS about trust issues. Everyone is a professional here.

What happened is that Kawhi and his family wanted to go elsewhere, but the way they handled it was unprofessional (not showing up to support the team while in the playoffs).

The reality is... uncle Dennis is always pushing a favorable narrative... ask yourself, why Didn't Kawhi himself say this? It's all PR by the same guy who lost the Nike deal and the Supermax deal.


The collective bargaining agreement with the players union allows players to get a second opinion, a third opinion, a fourth opinion, a fifth opinion, a sixth opinion, a seventh opinion, and an eighth opinion. The team cannot prevent a player from seeking an outside opinion. The "group" took that and ran up to New York. The "groups" doctors have been in control of KL's rehab for close to two years and he is still having issues. A chronic knee condition. If fact, the rehab Dr. Garrett (referenced in the main Nephew thread) indicated that the patella tendonitis goes all the way back to the guys HIGH SCHOOL playing days. He took a pretty good hit in the same area a long time ago and it has been an issue ever since. Doctor Garrett certainly has contacts and knows more stuff about the situation with his organization contacts. He believes that the knee issue he is dealing with now is the same one he has had for almost a decade. Wear and tear from an eight year NBA career does not help things. The condition was milked by the "group" (the uncle especially) and the holdout of 2017-18 comes to pass. There was no misdiagnosis. The load management tells you there is a chronic condition. One season of basketball in two years (under the care of his own medical people) and there are still issues. Faking an injury might not be the correct wording, but there likely was severe exaggeration last year in San Antonio - especially in March and April when he was well enough to play. The guy did not want to push things and take a chance on a setback last year. The subsequent trade and inordinate rest periods this year prevented the guy from not playing. He had to play this year to have the required demand for his services this summer. Once again a very orchestrated plan.

The rehab doctor (who knows all the people in the know) felt like the whole thing was a holdout designed to poison the relationship between the Spurs and "group" in order to get out of town. He pointed specifically to the Uncle.

The KL group has been scared to death of a major setback during the poorly acted dinner theater production that has been going on the last 2 years. The want their money and they want their preferred team. BTW, as hard as they have tried and as much dumb luck as they have had all season, it probably won't end well long term for the Great White North team - after all it is COLD up there. They could win the whole thing (not expecting it myself) and the guy could still head west and not have an instant of conscience or regret. He did not give two craps about all the fans of San Antonio, did he?


Some of you are just bitter... holding a grudge won't bring him back, tbh...

This isn't about believing Leonard or Uncle, it's about team doctors that apparently were deeply involved in the acrimony that followed. To the point of contradicting your franchise player when he told them he couldn't play, and officially clearing him to play instead. Even if the doctors thought they were right, he's your franchise, you have to deal with those situations with proper care. Not to mention the kind of message that sends to other top tier athletes in the league. Who do you guys think has more credibility right at this moment? The healthy guy busting his ass on the NBA finals or the has been Spurs doctors?

At the end of the day, it cost the Spurs a franchise player, one of the best players in the league, the possibility of being a top tier team in the near future, and all the money and talent magnet that surrounds that.

A lot, and I mean a whole lot of people would've been fired in any other organization for a situation that worked out that way.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Some of you are just bitter... holding a grudge won't bring him back, tbh...

This isn't about believing Leonard or Uncle, it's about team doctors that apparently were deeply involved in the acrimony that followed. To the point of contradicting your franchise player when he told them he couldn't play, and officially clearing him to play instead. Even if the doctors thought they were right, he's your franchise, you have to deal with those situations with proper care. Not to mention the kind of message that sends to other top tier athletes in the league. Who do you guys think has more credibility right at this moment? The healthy guy busting his ass on the NBA finals or the has been Spurs doctors?

At the end of the day, it cost the Spurs a franchise player, one of the best players in the league, the possibility of being a top tier team in the near future, and all the money and talent magnet that surrounds that.

A lot, and I mean a whole lot of people would've been fired in any other organization for a situation that worked out that way.
:tu

[exstatic]

Some of you are just bitter... holding a grudge won't bring him back, tbh...

This isn't about believing Leonard or Uncle, it's about team doctors that apparently were deeply involved in the acrimony that followed. To the point of contradicting your franchise player when he told them he couldn't play, and officially clearing him to play instead. Even if the doctors thought they were right, he's your franchise, you have to deal with those situations with proper care. Not to mention the kind of message that sends to other top tier athletes in the league. Who do you guys think has more credibility right at this moment? The healthy guy busting his ass on the NBA finals or the has been Spurs doctors?

At the end of the day, it cost the Spurs a franchise player, one of the best players in the league, the possibility of being a top tier team in the near future, and all the money and talent magnet that surrounds that.

A lot, and I mean a whole lot of people would've been fired in any other organization for a situation that worked out that way.
Healthy guy? You mean the guy who skipped 1/4 of the season, and is dragging his leg up and down the court? That guy?

[BSfromTX]

Some of you are just bitter... holding a grudge won't bring him back, tbh...

This isn't about believing Leonard or Uncle, it's about team doctors that apparently were deeply involved in the acrimony that followed. To the point of contradicting your franchise player when he told them he couldn't play, and officially clearing him to play instead. Even if the doctors thought they were right, he's your franchise, you have to deal with those situations with proper care. Not to mention the kind of message that sends to other top tier athletes in the league. Who do you guys think has more credibility right at this moment? The healthy guy busting his ass on the NBA finals or the has been Spurs doctors?

At the end of the day, it cost the Spurs a franchise player, one of the best players in the league, the possibility of being a top tier team in the near future, and all the money and talent magnet that surrounds that.

A lot, and I mean a whole lot of people would've been fired in any other organization for a situation that worked out that way.

So basically your saying PATFO should have kissed his ass and not forced the issue? MAYBE, that prolongs the inevitable, but I doubt it makes a difference

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Some of you are just bitter... holding a grudge won't bring him back, tbh...

This isn't about believing Leonard or Uncle, it's about team doctors that apparently were deeply involved in the acrimony that followed. To the point of contradicting your franchise player when he told them he couldn't play, and officially clearing him to play instead. Even if the doctors thought they were right, he's your franchise, you have to deal with those situations with proper care. Not to mention the kind of message that sends to other top tier athletes in the league. Who do you guys think has more credibility right at this moment? The healthy guy busting his ass on the NBA finals or the has been Spurs doctors?

At the end of the day, it cost the Spurs a franchise player, one of the best players in the league, the possibility of being a top tier team in the near future, and all the money and talent magnet that surrounds that.

A lot, and I mean a whole lot of people would've been fired in any other organization for a situation that worked out that way.

PREACH

This will always be a massive blemish on the Spurs FO

[SAGirl]

:lol Tony put the nail in the coffin but it was already over by that point anyway
Just like him not wanting to sit with the team. It was already over at that point anyways as well. Spurs were just in denial trying to hold on to him when his mind was already made up.

[SAGirl]

LOL. I don't think Kawhi ever had any intention of playing for the Spurs last season. Nobody was airing commercials with him in them, because he'd been off the court for so long. That was a problem, since Nike was releasing their Air Jordan Gatorade Collection (right before Christmas). Nike had already shot the commercials, including the one with Kawhi and LaMarcus. And they had their "Bold Like Kawhi" tag line ready to go. But with Kawhi off the floor for so long, it was going to be weak, if not a disaster. That's a lot of money down the tubes.

The answer? Kawhi came back just in time to get a bunch of media buzz about his return, a week or so ahead of the release of the shoes. He played a few more games, spaced out enough to get them through the launch. Kawhi looked rusty, but his leg looked fine - I haven't been able to find a single bit of video showing him limp or even grimace. And then he just packed it in for the rest of the season.

Kawhi came back to get paid. The rest is just smoke and mirrors - manufactured controversy to justify what Dennis wanted to do from the beginning. It was about money and endorsements.

I remembered the article below, but I had to dig a little to find it. It was published about a week after Kawhi's "return" to the court. You can say it's just coincidence that his 9 game return just happened to coincide with the Nike campaign. But that's one hell of a happy coincidence, and I've got some beachfront to sell you.

https://thesportsdaily.com/2017/12/20/kawhi-leonard-dances-at-edm-concert-breaks-board-with-bare-hand-in-new-foot-locker-ad/
"Now that Kawhi Leonard has returned to the court, brands have resumed running promotional ads and videos involving the Spurs star.
Some have been better than others, but the new Foot Locker X Jordan Brand ad video, which was released on Wednesday, is actually pretty great.
In it, Leonard dances on stage at an EDM concert, rocks out in the studio with Nipsey Hussle and destroys a board with his bare hand. You can watch him do those things in the video clip below."
This is a good theory.

[slick'81]

Trade looking more and more awful by the second

[313]

Some of you are just bitter... holding a grudge won't bring him back, tbh...

This isn't about believing Leonard or Uncle, it's about team doctors that apparently were deeply involved in the acrimony that followed. To the point of contradicting your franchise player when he told them he couldn't play, and officially clearing him to play instead. Even if the doctors thought they were right, he's your franchise, you have to deal with those situations with proper care. Not to mention the kind of message that sends to other top tier athletes in the league. Who do you guys think has more credibility right at this moment? The healthy guy busting his ass on the NBA finals or the has been Spurs doctors?

At the end of the day, it cost the Spurs a franchise player, one of the best players in the league, the possibility of being a top tier team in the near future, and all the money and talent magnet that surrounds that.

A lot, and I mean a whole lot of people would've been fired in any other organization for a situation that worked out that way.It was Kawhi and his camp that cut communication. It was Kawhi and his camp that kept saying he was coming back and then ghosting the team when the dates came up. When the Spurs finally declared him out for the season(no communication from Kawhi & co for months), of course his team comes back and says he's 95% and will come back "soon".

Apparently 95% wasn't enough to even sit court side and support is team during the playoffs.

PAFTO were playing against a rigged deck, I don't see how it isn't clear to anyone remotely familiar with the situation.

[Harry Callahan]

Just watch the player play the game. He does not play back to back games all season. He still has the body language of a less than 100% healthy player.

Can anyone say even now that he looks fully healthy when he plays? Something is still not right.

[ElNono]

No need to make excuses for PATFO, tbh.... this is the same group that called DRob in the middle of the night to tell him they thought Duncan was gone.

The Spurs have been isolated from the cutthroat business that's the NBA for a long time, largely thanks to the big 3, and we knew the transition was not going to be easy. Maybe Pop is not interested in sucking up to the league stars like the rest of the teams are, tbh, but then we have no room to complain about mediocrity...

[ElNono]

Healthy guy? You mean the guy who skipped 1/4 of the season, and is dragging the Toronto freaking Raptors to the NBA Finals? That guy?

fify

[UZER]

No need to make excuses for PATFO, tbh.... this is the same group that called DRob in the middle of the night to tell him they thought Duncan was gone.

The Spurs have been isolated from the cutthroat business that's the NBA for a long time, largely thanks to the big 3, and we knew the transition was not going to be easy. Maybe Pop is not interested in sucking up to the league stars like the rest of the teams are, tbh, but then we have no room to complain about mediocrity...



PATFO lost Kawhi. Bottom line. Uncle this, Dennis that, blah blah blah. Did Kawhi bitch out? Yes he did. But PATFO are the franchise that alienated a top 3 player so much that he didn’t even want to be in their presence. It happened on their watch.

None of this “Spurs way, Spurs guys, culture contracts” is ever going to end until Pop retires into the sunset, not the into front office. Pop plays humble, but he has become bigger than the team and that’s a problem.

I root for the San Antonio Spurs, not the San Antonio Pops. Dude needs to retire already.

[JeffDuncan]

...
This isn't about believing Leonard or Uncle, it's about team doctors that apparently were deeply involved in the acrimony that followed. To the point of contradicting your franchise player when he told them he couldn't play, and officially clearing him to play instead. ...

What you wrote there is not correct. It's impossible. A few points.

Although called "Spurs doctors" the ones who treated Kawhi were his doctors, Kawhi's doctors. Period. Not arguable.

He was the patient. They were his doctors. The doctor-patient relationship existed between them and Kawhi. There are ethics rules about the doctor-patient relationship, and there are state and federal laws about it. And I am certain that none of the doctors wanted to lose his license to practice medicine. Those ethics rules, and laws, are serious. They mean what they say. They ain't no joke. All the doctors know it.

The doctors informed Kawhi of their medical findings and recommendations. He was their patient.

They informed nobody else - unless they had the proper consent form, duly signed by Kawhi and on file. Although called "Spurs doctors" they never said a word to the Spurs - UNLESS they were authorized, by Kawhi himself, by his written consent, to communicate with the Spurs about his medical condition.

You can be absolutely certain of that because you can be certain they didn't want to lose their licenses. The doctor-patient relationship is privileged, protected by law.

I would guess that the "Spurs doctors" do have consent forms on file from any Spurs players they treat. It would be in a player's best interest if his condition can be communicated to the training staff, so they can assist him in following a doctor's recommendations. Also, the coaching staff.

The patient, himself, can say whatever he wants to say about his medical condition, to anybody at any time. All his medical information belongs to him because his body belongs to him. He doesn't need permission.

The doctors never told the Spurs (if authorized to speak to them) anything different from what they told Kawhi, himself. You can take it to the bank. Because they didn't want to lose their licenses. There are ethics rules, and laws, and doctors know it.

The kind of contradiction you mentioned is impossible. It never happened. It's a misunderstanding among the public.

Who told Coach Pop, that December, that the doctors said Kawhi was "cleared to play?" Kawhi did. It was Kawhi, himself, who told Pop. After the doctors told Kawhi. Even if Pop might have heard it earlier from the training staff, if authorized by a consent form, Pop would have verified it with Leonard personally, of course, by asking what the doctors told him.

Coach Pop then added Leonard to the lineup for the Spurs game on December 12 against the Mavericks.

[ElNono]

What you wrote there is not correct. It's impossible. A few points.

Although called "Spurs doctors" the ones who treated Kawhi were his doctors, Kawhi's doctors. Period. Not arguable.

He was the patient. They were his doctors. The doctor-patient relationship existed between them and Kawhi. There are ethics rules about the doctor-patient relationship, and there are state and federal laws about it. And I am certain that none of the doctors wanted to lose his license to practice medicine. Those ethics rules, and laws, are serious. They mean what they say. They ain't no joke. All the doctors know it.

The doctors informed Kawhi of their medical findings and recommendations. He was their patient.

They informed nobody else - unless they had the proper consent form, duly signed by Kawhi and on file. Although called "Spurs doctors" they never said a word to the Spurs - UNLESS they were authorized, by Kawhi himself, by his written consent, to communicate with the Spurs about his medical condition.

This is not correct at all, and shows a complete lack of understanding how NBA contracts operate. When the player signs on an NBA contract, he waives a number of rights, including the secrecy rule. He also must submit to team doctors for periodic fitness assessments. Those doctors report directly to the team and league.

In cases where the team and player disagree about his fitness to play, there's a Fitness to Play Panel that can be established per the CBA (see Larry Coon's CBA faq, entry #62). They include doctors from the league and player's association. The problem with going that route is that if the league clears him, and the team still doesn't play him, then the team has 60 days to trade or waive him, a route the Spurs were unlikely to take since they apparently still wanted to repair their relationship with Kawhi.

Even when players receive care from a personal doctor, the team doctors still have to clear the player. If a disagreement arises from that, the same Fitness Panel procedure kicks in.

[r0drig0lac]

No need to make excuses for PATFO, tbh.... this is the same group that called DRob in the middle of the night to tell him they thought Duncan was gone.

The Spurs have been isolated from the cutthroat business that's the NBA for a long time, largely thanks to the big 3, and we knew the transition was not going to be easy. Maybe Pop is not interested in sucking up to the league stars like the rest of the teams are, tbh, but then we have no room to complain about mediocrity...

x1000

[TD 21]

Some of you are just bitter... holding a grudge won't bring him back, tbh...

This isn't about believing Leonard or Uncle, it's about team doctors that apparently were deeply involved in the acrimony that followed. To the point of contradicting your franchise player when he told them he couldn't play, and officially clearing him to play instead. Even if the doctors thought they were right, he's your franchise, you have to deal with those situations with proper care. Not to mention the kind of message that sends to other top tier athletes in the league. Who do you guys think has more credibility right at this moment? The healthy guy busting his ass on the NBA finals or the has been Spurs doctors?

At the end of the day, it cost the Spurs a franchise player, one of the best players in the league, the possibility of being a top tier team in the near future, and all the money and talent magnet that surrounds that.

A lot, and I mean a whole lot of people would've been fired in any other organization for a situation that worked out that way.

Even if all this were true and he wasn't faking it for a good portion of time and using it as a crutch to ask out, none of it excuses his behavior.

That was always my main point of contention. Of course I'd have still been annoyed had he wanted out just because he supposedly wanted to live in L.A. year round, but that's because he's a superstar, one that required a lot of player development and they'd be missing out on most of his best years.

Ultimately, I'd have been more or less fine with it though, so long as he handled it like a professional (didn't have a problem with Aldridge asking out 2 years ago or supposedly wanting to finish where he started; though I don't know why he allowed it to become public knowledge), didn't destroy his trade value and allowed them to cash in.

Instead, he contributed to destroying this franchise.

[Keepin' it real]

Trade looking more and more awful by the second

Imagine how much worse it will look in 100 years. Just ghastly.

[DPG21920]

El Nono is probably that guy who blames the victims of crimes. “She shouldn’t have been dressed that way”. “Ultimately why was he out that late? He put himself in that situation and he should have just not been out so late”.

[DPG21920]

No need to make excuses for PATFO, tbh.... this is the same group that called DRob in the middle of the night to tell him they thought Duncan was gone.

The Spurs have been isolated from the cutthroat business that's the NBA for a long time, largely thanks to the big 3, and we knew the transition was not going to be easy. Maybe Pop is not interested in sucking up to the league stars like the rest of the teams are, tbh, but then we have no room to complain about mediocrity...

What is rich about this example (DROB) is that on one hand you are knocking PATFO and saying they didn’t do what it took to keep a superstar the on the other hand you reference them doing what they needed to do (calling in DROB) to keep Tim. Seems like a little bit of double speak unless you meant to give credit to PATFO for calling Rob?

[slick'81]

Imagine how much worse it will look in 100 years. Just ghastly.


Thank gawd well all be in heaven

[ElNono]

Even if all this were true and he wasn't faking it for a good portion of time and using it as a crutch to ask out, none of it excuses his behavior.

That was always my main point of contention. Of course I'd have still been annoyed had he wanted out just because he supposedly wanted to live in L.A. year round, but that's because he's a superstar, one that required a lot of player development and they'd be missing out on most of his best years.

Ultimately, I'd have been more or less fine with it though, so long as he handled it like a professional (didn't have a problem with Aldridge asking out 2 years ago or supposedly wanting to finish where he started; though I don't know why he allowed it to become public knowledge), didn't destroy his trade value and allowed them to cash in.

Instead, he contributed to destroying this franchise.

Of course it was bitchmade and unprofessional. I have no sympathy for the guy, and reminds me when Melo wanted out of Denver back in the day because he wanted to play in New York.

The point is that the Spurs aren't riding a high horse anymore, and in this league, the 'norm' is that you have to suck up to the stars, especially if you're on a small market. You have to guarantee minutes, touches, etc. I also don't think it sounds entirely hollow that there was disagreement and lack of trust between Kawhi and some people in the team, something MoSpur and apparently timvp also mention, so then the question is, what happened with those people? Is something gonna be done about it, or we're stuck with these characters?

[ElNono]

El Nono is probably that guy who blames the victims of crimes. “She shouldn’t have been dressed that way”. “Ultimately why was he out that late? He put himself in that situation and he should have just not been out so late”.

:lol no. See my post above to TD 21.


What is rich about this example (DROB) is that on one hand you are knocking PATFO and saying they didn’t do what it took to keep a superstar the on the other hand you reference them doing what they needed to do (calling in DROB) to keep Tim. Seems like a little bit of double speak unless you meant to give credit to PATFO for calling Rob?

I actually think it's fairly alarming that if left to their own capacity, they would've lost basically 4 championship rings and all the money and history that came with it. Maybe San Antonio is a tough sell, but that's partly the point too. When you have guys like that fall into your lap, or you have the advantage of having brought them in, won a championship with the team, you would think there would be some care in handling situations like these, instead of having the coach talk how that player is not a leader, or an iconic player coming out and talking about Kawhi's injury like it was no big deal.

I'm also intrigued about the comments on acrimony between Kawhi and his camp and some people in the organization. Apparently we can't know who that people are, but what happened to them?