The dem Debates Thread

[DarrinS]

Yang, Buttplug, and Biden closed well. So tired of Bernie, tbh.

[Reck]

Biden is gonna want to pull a Trump and not show up at the next debate. He couldn't possibly be any less impressionable then.

From this group, Yang, crazy lady Marriane and Gillibrand need to pack their bags...tonight.

[FrostKing]

SHOW ME UR YANG

[DeadlyDynasty]

Hickenlooper, Bennet, and Buttplug were the most grounded.

[DarrinS]

Back to back shitshows, tbh

[DeadlyDynasty]

Back to back shitshows, tbh
Hate to say it, but Warren would've done even better with this group imo.

[Reck]

I think Warren looks great after tonight.

Bernie is in 2016 mode. Same approach, no new ideas. Old news.

[spurraider21]

I think Warren looks great after tonight.

Bernie is in 2016 mode. Same approach, no new ideas. Old news.
not new from 2016, but still new in the context of the current status quo

[DarrinS]

Hate to say it, but Warren would've done even better with this group imo.

Yeah, but she wants to nuke insurance, so there's that.

[DarrinS]

I agree with Bill Maher that only Oprah could defeat drumpf.

[DarrinS]

I suppose they are trying to appeal to very left-leaning base, but wtf?

[DarrinS]

Srsly?

1144418693419585561

And every single one raised their hands.

[Will Hunting]

Srsly?

1144418693419585561

And every single one raised their hands.
The immigration shit is where they’ve all gone too far left imo

[Spurtacular]

Why was Elizabeth debating with the JV team yesterday?

:lmao

[Reck]

not new from 2016, but still new in the context of the current status quo

That's why you have a Warren now. Fresher ideas that are in the same vein but much more grounded in reality.

Warren is still not my prefered candidate but I can see myself voting for her. As for Bernie. Hard sale..

After tonight it's obvious Biden is on borrowed time so backups need to be placed quick. :lol

[rmt]

That's why you have a Warren now. Fresher ideas that are in the same vein but much more grounded in reality.

Warren is still not my prefered candidate but I can see myself voting for her. As for Bernie. Hard sale..

After tonight it's obvious Biden is on borrowed time so backups need to be placed quick. :lol

You're abandoning a centrist for kooky (sp) Warren - not only wants to tax our income to death but wealth/assets too?

[Reck]

You're abandoning a centrist for kooky (sp) Warren - not only wants to tax our income to death but wealth/assets too?

I'm not abandoning anybody. Biden has never been my 1st pick.

[spurraider21]

That's why you have a Warren now. Fresher ideas that are in the same vein but much more grounded in reality.

Warren is still not my prefered candidate but I can see myself voting for her. As for Bernie. Hard sale..

After tonight it's obvious Biden is on borrowed time so backups need to be placed quick. :lol
i've been saying warren is my #1 for a while now, dont really think there's a close #2

i've been consistently down on biden. still haven't watched today's debate yet, but from the sounds of it dont think he's going to be winning me over :lol

but aren't you a beto guy? dude was an embarrassment yesterday.

[Reck]

but aren't you a beto guy? dude was an embarrassment yesterday.

Yeah he didn't impress at all. He got dunked on by Bill De fucking Blasio. I think tonight kind of erases last night because tonight was a shitshow overall.

I think there is a good shot that he gets a VP nod from one of the top runners though. Beto appeals to the younger crowds and does a good job pulling from the middle of the road vote.

[ElNono]

I just said it doesn't apply in the same manner.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have a gripe with the elite rich. Most of us do. But you are presupposing that the govt. is a good economic distributor; it's not. It's pay for play, and the rich will find their own ins and the expense of the workers.

Also, you are presupposing that great success needs to be punished. That's foolish. If I do an enterprise that pays to that magnitude, my attitude is the business can fuck off if they come at me for ninety percent. That you didn't build that stuff doesn't fly with me.

This post clearly exemplifies the nonsense economic dogma of the prototypical government hater. On one hand it argues the rich will always manage to game the system, on the other it says we shouldn’t punish the ‘great success’ that enable said rich people to game the system.

How is that a tenable position unless you’re part of that exclusive filthy rich club? Why would you even want that to continue considering that a) it’s undeniably to your disadvantage and the disadvantage of the vast majority of Americans, b) arguably trickle-down, the private version of redistribution is demonstrably and verifiably a myth.

I mean, we can argue whether government redistribution is more or less effective, but there’s absolutely zero doubt it reaches much further and lower in the social scale than any private sector redistribution scheme.

Even if we were to argue that you hope to be filthy rich one day and you just want to hold on to as much money as possible, the tacit admission you’ll be able to dodge the taxes means that until then, you’re effectively voting against your own interests.

[ElNono]

And Derp, it’s not personal, don’t take it like that, tbh. You’re far from being the only person with that line of thinking, the post just exemplified it very well.

[ElNono]

We have to watch this shit for 18 months. Too early for this. Ugh.

My thinking exactly. Not going to watch any of this stuff until the dust settles a bit and and 5-8 candidates are kicked out of the house (this is political Big Brother right?)

[Spurtacular]

This post clearly exemplifies the nonsense economic dogma of the prototypical government hater. On one hand it argues the rich will always manage to game the system, on the other it says we shouldn’t punish the ‘great success’ that enable said rich people to game the system.

How is that a tenable position unless you’re part of that exclusive filthy rich club? Why would you even want that to continue considering that a) it’s undeniably to your disadvantage and the disadvantage of the vast majority of Americans, b) arguably trickle-down, the private version of redistribution is demonstrably and verifiably a myth.

I mean, we can argue whether government redistribution is more or less effective, but there’s absolutely zero doubt it reaches much further and lower in the social scale than any private sector redistribution scheme.

Even if we were to argue that you hope to be filthy rich one day and you just want to hold on to as much money as possible, the tacit admission you’ll be able to dodge the taxes means that until then, you’re effectively voting against your own interests.

My interests is to not be punished when I work hard and get rich. I get that many on here realize they're losers with no hope and want a bigger slice of the pie for nothing.

[ElNono]

My interests is to not be punished when I work hard and get rich. I get that many on here realize they're losers with no hope and want a bigger slice of the pie for nothing.

But then you readily admit that if you were that rich, you would be able to game the system anyways, so, until then, how does that make sense at all? Again, this is a logical construction, has nothing to do with personal feelings or morals/ideals.

This is mostly an academic discussion anyways, I realize there’s a lot of dogma involved in it.

[Spurtacular]

But then you readily admit that if you were that rich, you would be able to game the system anyways, so, until then, how does that make sense at all? Again, this is a logical construction, has nothing to do with personal feelings or morals/ideals.

This is mostly an academic discussion anyways, I realize there’s a lot of dogma involved in it.

It's dogmatic to give most of a persons earning made through his output to an irresponsible collective.

[ElNono]

And yeah, the ceiling for guys like ducks is probably Geek Squad (nothing inherently wrong with that), but makes it even more puzzling, tbh

[spurraider21]

:lol BlakeNono

[ElNono]

It's dogmatic to give most of a persons earning made through his output to an irresponsible collective.

How? It’s the exact same social contract we’ve had since the Romans or even earlier than that. And the filthy rich pay more and yet do get to keep more in actual money too.

I’m not necessarily complaining, I’m in the upper brackets and the fact that people are somehow convinced to vote against themselves works better for me in the long run. I just find it very illogical.

[ElNono]

And yeah, not going to defend the government handling of public funds. That still doesn’t make it a reasonable argument, IMO

[spurraider21]

How? It’s the exact same social contract we’ve had since the Romans or even earlier than that. And the filthy rich pay more and yet do get to keep more in actual money too.

I’m not necessarily complaining, I’m in the upper brackets and the fact that people are somehow convinced to vote against themselves works better for me in the long run. I just find it very illogical.
cosmiccowboy?

[ElNono]

cosmiccowboy?

:lol not quite there yet (I don’t think)

You’re a lawyer tho, just a matter of time until you reap the benefits too, tbh

[Chris]

Warren is still not my prefered candidate but I can see myself voting for her.

good goy!

[Nathan89]

https://twitter.com/AriFleischer/status/1144423000105738240?s=20

The entire stage to night effectively endorsed open borders. Just a couple of months ago the lefties on here with their finger on the pulse of reality were trying to argue that effectively no Dems had that position. Great foresight.

[spurraider21]

good goy!
whats that supposed to mean?

[FrostKing]

whats that supposed to mean?
Even better goy

[ElNono]

https://twitter.com/AriFleischer/status/1144423000105738240?s=20

The entire stage to night effectively endorsed open borders. Just a couple of months ago the lefties on here with their finger on the pulse of reality were trying to argue that effectively no Dems had that position. Great foresight.

You could pull a Reagan and give them citizenship by amnesty, tbh, while proclaiming you won’t let new people in (Ronnie was kidding about the last part, obviously)

[AaronY]

https://twitter.com/AriFleischer/status/1144423000105738240?s=20

The entire stage to night effectively endorsed open borders. Just a couple of months ago the lefties on here with their finger on the pulse of reality were trying to argue that effectively no Dems had that position. Great foresight.
All of Votingrepublican.jpeg's theories confirmed tonight. Feelsgoodmayne

[AaronY]

Yang, Buttplug, and Biden closed well. So tired of Bernie, tbh.
Lets be honest, Darrin..our man Biden shit the bad tonight. Kamala Harris race carded the fuck out of him. was not good

[AaronY]

tbh not sure if Darrin is still a Biden guy. even if Biden gets through expect him to be the type of Republican who says he wants Ol Joe just until he gets em and then finds some excuse to vote Trump last minute anyway

[Spurtacular]

How? It’s the exact same social contract we’ve had since the Romans or even earlier than that.

You clearly need to review the history of this country's founding.

[ElNono]

You clearly need to review the history of this country's founding.

You mean the part where they explicitly delegate tax writing duties to Congress? What am I missing here?

[ElNono]

tbh not sure if Darrin is still a Biden guy. even if Biden gets through expect him to be the type of Republican who says he wants Ol Joe just until he gets em and then finds some excuse to vote Trump last minute anyway

It’s easy to support Biden if you’re a conservative, tbh... he’s out of touch, unappealing, and has a terrible voting record, not to mention a career politician.

But those are likely the reasons he won’t (or shouldn’t) survive the primaries...

[Spurtacular]

You mean the part where they explicitly delegate tax writing duties to Congress? What am I missing here?

The leaders and the constituency were not about high taxes. Most didn't even like a federal tax of any sort. And btw, :lol at you propping up the failed Romans while you were at it.

[Will Hunting]

Lets be honest, Darrin..our man Biden shit the bad tonight. Kamala Harris race carded the fuck out of him. was not good
All of our arguments about Biden aside, how the fuck was he not better prepared for that? Everyone and their mother could have told him that Kamala Harris would race card him on something like bussing, but he was a complete deer in the headlights when he was supposed to respond to it.

[Kyle Kashuv]

tbh not sure if Darrin is still a Biden guy. even if Biden gets through expect him to be the type of Republican who says he wants Ol Joe just until he gets em and then finds some excuse to vote Trump last minute anyway
Then pretend he didn’t vote at all and call him Drumpf to throw everybody off the trail.

[Winehole23]

whats that supposed to mean?puppets of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your puppet strings.

[boutons_deux]

funny shit

Internet hilariously piles on Marianne Williamson’s ‘weirdly terrifying’ debate performance

Marianne Williamson — a self-help speaker and bestselling author Gwyneth Paltrow has praised as a “spiritual legend” :lol — mystified audiences with her oddball performance at the second round of the Democratic presidential debates.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/internet-hilariously-piles-on-marianne-williamsons-weirdly-terrifying-debate-performance/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=442

[boutons_deux]

MSNBC’s Morning Joe wipes out Joe Biden: ‘One of the more disturbing performances since Reagan in 1984’

MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough ripped the “disturbing” and “unprepared” performances by Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders in their first Democratic presidential debate.

“I have to say the frontrunner, Joe Biden — man, he was off his game,” Scarborough said.

“I must say, won’t make friends here,

it was one of the more disturbing debate performances I have seen since Ronald Reagan’s first debate in 1984.”

“It was one of those moments where you’re going, my god, is he going to complete his sentence?” Scarborough added.

“There were times he said he was going to give us three points — he gave us one and a half,

and then did something that Joe Biden has never done, he gave back his time. ‘My time is up.’

No, Joe Biden doesn’t do that. Joe Biden runs through stop signs.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/msnbcs-morning-joe-wipes-out-joe-biden-one-of-the-more-disturbing-performances-since-reagan-in-1984/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=442 (https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/msnbcs-morning-joe-wipes-out-joe-biden-one-of-the-more-disturbing-performances-since-reagan-in-1984/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=442)

[ElNono]

The leaders and the constituency were not about high taxes. Most didn't even like a federal tax of any sort. And btw, :lol at you propping up the failed Romans while you were at it.

Except they didn’t put down on the Constitution any of that (which they could’ve clearly and easily done). This is another misnomer mixing up property rights vs taxation. There’s no “Thou shall not tax over X%” anywhere on the Constitution.

I didn’t prop anybody in particular, I’m referencing the fact that societies are historically communal, and they don’t run out of thin air. Our social contract stipulates how the government will dictate law, administer justice, provide protection and trade agreements, etc, and none of that is understood to be free.

In economic theory, the role of taxation is well understood, and one that exists pretty much universally on every economic system (as diverse as capitalism, communism, socialism, etc).

[boutons_deux]

For Chuck Todd, the campaign is just cynical game of "Gotcha." The candidates aren't playing. (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/27/1867700/-For-Chuck-Todd-the-campaign-is-just-cynical-game-of-Gotcha-The-candidates-aren-t-playing)


First question coming up on whether there is a government role in dealing with the gun issue.

Warren says children asking “when you’re president, how are you going to keep us safe.” Is the toughest question she’s received. Talks up background checks, assault weapons ban.

And then Chuck Todd says “you didn’t address, do you think the federal government needs to go and get the guns.”

You know why,
Chuck, because that’s not the question you asked.


Todd didn’t care about gun control.

He cared only about being the guy who made news.

Instead he became the umpire who was in the news for blowing a call.

Umpires should never be the news.

Neither should moderators.

When we notice the umpire, or the moderator, it’s never for anything good.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/27/1867700/-For-Chuck-Todd-the-campaign-is-just-cynical-game-of-Gotcha-The-candidates-aren-t-playing?detail=emaildkre (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/27/1867700/-For-Chuck-Todd-the-campaign-is-just-cynical-game-of-Gotcha-The-candidates-aren-t-playing?detail=emaildkre)

... above follows Todd's god awful interview with Trash.

[FrostKing]

At this moment - 83% chance of Trump 2nd term IMO

[Thread]

MSM wants to set dead in Biden's elderly shit, but, they can't loiter & the bastards know. One after another spoke truth this morning across the hallways twixt MSNBC & CNN. "She can't beat Trump!"

They're wise motherfuckers, let me tell you. MSM knows PRECISELY where that bear shits in the buckwheat. They ain't waiting a week while they curb stomp Biden 1/2 to death. No way. It'll all be smoothed over by Sunday morning news shows.

Biden wants it like Hillary wanted it, but, neither can't stand the gaffe. They're tuckered. They want it bestowed upon them and they, to their great amazement & disappointment are up against an old-white-man who doesn't mind one damn bit of easin' on down into the mud & blood & foisting about with them. "C'mon, come on down in here with me." tee, hee.

[Thread]

At this moment - 83% chance of Trump 2nd term IMO

& can you imagine that? Woo hoo!!!

A lot of the haters would give up & go back to the lives they left 4 years back. CNN? No fuckin' way.

"No fuckin' way. Huddle up. Hands in. Not an inch, not 1 fucking inch. Give that fucker not a single easy breath.........Break!"

[BD24]

The 70% tax is proposed on annual income over 10 million. None of the candidates you listed are even worth 10 million.

Your community college math isn’t adding up.
:lol tbh

[BD24]

Read what I said, I’m not disagreeing with you. I’d start the 70% tax at a number much lower than 10 million, but no one cares what I think, thus my opinion isn’t what’s being discussed.

Regarding why AOC picked 10 million, I have no idea why.
It’s awfully nice of you to continue to attempt to have an actual discussion with Joey tbh

[BD24]

At this moment - 83% chance of Trump 2nd term IMO
Sounds about right

[Spurminator]

1144676029883133952

Can't say I expected this...

[boutons_deux]

Sounds about right

scary times in America's unstoppable descent into one-party rule.

[Reck]

good goy!

From the guy who voted and will vote for a pussy grabber/accused rapist and who also cheer leads pedos. :lol Chris

[koriwhat]

From the guy who voted and will vote for a pussy grabber/accused rapist and who also cheer leads pedos. :lol Chris

lol what was hillary's aide(S) caught with again? not one but two and possibly more, who knows...

[Reck]

:lol Hillarys friends

Joey cares

[koriwhat]

:lol Hillarys friends

Joey cares

dismiss the truth because it breaks your narrative... hey wasn't trump's bud also billy boy's best friend of which he whined and dined out on pedo epsteins island while splishin and splashin around together? wait, same dude mueller brought in as a witness? lmao!

[Pavlov]

dismiss the truth because it breaks your narrative... hey wasn't trump's bud also billy boy's best friend of which he whined and dined out on pedo epsteins island while splishin and splashin around together? wait, same dude mueller brought in as a witness? lmao!:lmao wrong guy
:lmao wrong island
:lmao wrong spelling of "wined"
:lmao "truth"

[Spurtacular]

Except they didn’t put down on the Constitution any of that (which they could’ve clearly and easily done).

Because there were war debts to be paid. Even soldiers wages ad pensions were left waning b/c the country was not about a federal overreach in the form of taxes. This was frankly the matter of fact even during the war. Because of it, Robert Morris was left to do much of the funding of the war though his own private enterprising. I can keep going, but I think I've sufficiently made the point that this country was not founded on the taxation you touted.

[AaronY]

All of our arguments about Biden aside, how the fuck was he not better prepared for that? Everyone and their mother could have told him that Kamala Harris would race card him on something like bussing, but he was a complete deer in the headlights when he was supposed to respond to it.
Well this might have had something to do with it

1144709378412597248

But Biden looked old as fuck and tired last night. He was used to be more charismatic. He needs to drive the point home about how for 8 years he was America's uncle and BO's right hand man. No one said shit negative about him and now all of a sudden he's the antichrist and practically a klansman for transparently obvious reasons

[koriwhat]

:lmao wrong guy
:lmao wrong island
:lmao wrong spelling of "wined"
:lmao "truth"

guess i confused one of her pedo friends with one of bill's pedo friends or one of trump's pedo friends with the clinton's pedo friends... what a bunch of sick fucks.

as for typos, big deal when i use my phone here 90% of the time. you got the gist of it and that's all that matters anyhow.

truth is they're all friends with pedo's. what's not truth about this other than confusing one pedo for another? lol and bend over some more for the ol' clinton's.

[Pavlov]

guess i confused one of her pedo friends with one of bill's pedo friends or one of trump's pedo friends with the clinton's pedo friends... what a bunch of sick fucks.

as for typos, big deal with i use my phone here 90% of the time. you got the gist of it and that's all that matters anyhow.

truth is they're all friends with pedo's. what's not truth about this other than confusing one pedo for another? lol and bend over some more for the ol' clinton's.You got suckered by fake news.

Admit it.

[Thread]

Well this might have had something to do with it

1144709378412597248

But Biden looked old as fuck and tired last night. He was used to be more charismatic. He needs to drive the point home about how for 8 years he was America's uncle and BO's right hand man. No one said shit negative about him and now all of a sudden he's the antichrist and practically a klansman for transparently obvious reasons

Yes, indeed & he looked just as rickety today. He has that tried & true old look. It happens. It's coming for yours truly. I look in the mirror almost on a daily basis & see if I spot it on me. Not yet, but, I'm always falling down. I fell down coming out of a Quick Trip with a bag of used donuts in my hand, couldn't wait to get home and eat 'em. I mean a full fucking header. Helped up by strangers. Smashed the donuts, ate 'em anyway. Fell down on the old lady's wardrobe in the laundry room. Bent it badly. Fell down getting out of my car to go into a Goodwill. Got up & went in.

& so many close calls I can't even keep track of 'em. Your Cubby is getting old, fellows.

[koriwhat]

You got suckered by fake news.

Admit it.

i'm not sure tbh with you. i get a lot confused trying to keep up with the mess this country has gotten itself into. i read and watch so much i can't keep it all together sometimes; case in point.

either way, here's your chance to say i said something against trump. i guess it only means something when you ask me to say something against him?

[Thread]

i'm not sure tbh with you. >>>>>>>>>i get a lot confused trying to keep up with the mess this country has gotten itself into.<<<<<<<<< i read and watch so much i can't keep it all together sometimes; case in point.

either way, here's your chance to say i said something against trump. i guess it only means something when you ask me to say something against him?

We have attained a new level, kw. Yes.

Trump's election caused the restraints to be abandoned. MeToo pissed away due process & MSM went along with it all along the line. That's wrong.

(Trump) knows he did not conspire with Russia to win the election, so, in his mind he's innocent &&& entitled to block as many attacks on him without apology. It's understandable & accepted by his Base.

"I'd do the same thing if I were accused and knew I was innocent. I'd obstruct justice secure in the knowledge that I was doing right."- his Base

That's why Trump survives at 40%. Everyone can put themselves in his shoes.

People are afraid this government tried to overthrow him. It's too ugly to publicly pronounce, but, they believe it.

A lot more as well.

[Nathan89]

Yang is over there fighting for $1000 of freedom bucks because of automation taking jobs away while the entire stage embraces open borders. That's a retarded combination. This is terrible for Americans.

[Nathan89]

Free everything for illegals is nothing short of selling the country away so you can eliminate the conservative voice of America and win elections everywhere as easily as they do in California.

[Thread]

^^^

[Nathan89]

There is a distinct shift from Dems in these debates even from last election. They are tripping over each other to sell the country off to illegals.

[Nathan89]

https://twitter.com/rachaelmbade/status/1144420508764639232?s=20

This should be happening more often all across America.

[Nathan89]

I guess the decades of welfare hasn't really benefitted black Americans because now is the time to give reparations to non slaves.

[Pavlov]

i'm not sure tbh with you. i get a lot confused trying to keep up with the mess this country has gotten itself into. i read and watch so much i can't keep it all together sometimes; case in point.No, this began as fake news and is still being presented as true by multiple rubes on this board.

[Thread]

I guess the decades of welfare hasn't really benefitted black Americans because now is the time to give reparations to non slaves.

When a country is flush with cash to overflowing it's easy to screw around with it. When we're up to our neck in Recession again we'll rue these days.

[Nathan89]

https://twitter.com/DavidRutz/status/1144650891108265984?s=20

:lmao

[Quadzilla99]

I guess the decades of welfare hasn't really benefitted black Americans because now is the time to give reparations to non slaves.

You seem upset.

[koriwhat]

You seem upset.

well the idea of reparations is a silly idea to begin with and should upset the masses.

[AaronY]

https://twitter.com/rachaelmbade/status/1144420508764639232?s=20

This should be happening more often all across America.
The problem with this horseshit theory is that no matter what democrat gets through you'll demonize them. When the polls came out after Biden announced and he was at like 50% i went to the front page of Daily Wire to check out what they had to say. Well after Shapiro and others saying for months that Biden was too moderate to do anything in the Democratic field as soon as he looked even 2% good for the nomination they just started going in on him for being a dangerous, far-left maniac meanwhile he's basically been a standard generic Democrat for nearly 50 years

[Chris]

It seemed like Yang was caught off guard on the 'how ya gonna pay for it?'

"Excuse me?" :lol

[ElNono]

Because there were war debts to be paid. Even soldiers wages ad pensions were left waning b/c the country was not about a federal overreach in the form of taxes. This was frankly the matter of fact even during the war. Because of it, Robert Morris was left to do much of the funding of the war though his own private enterprising. I can keep going, but I think I've sufficiently made the point that this country was not founded on the taxation you touted.

Robert Morris did indeed offer to pay for them with a... tax.

1781 Superintendent of Finance Robert Morris attempted to expand governmental powers beyond the limits set by the Articles of Confederation. He released a Report on Public Credit, calling for the Confederation government to assume the entire national debt, issue new interest-bearing debt certificates, and impose tariffs and internal taxes to pay the interest costs. This plan essentially prefigured Alexander Hamilton’s later fiscal program.

Morris’s attempts to raise revenue were rebuffed at every turn. Rhode Island, for example, objected to his proposal for a national tariff (an import duty of 5 percent on foreign goods), leading to its defeat in Congress.

If we're gonna talk history, better not gloss over the important details, tbh...

[ElNono]

Guess Robert Morris was both a Trumpist or a commie, depending on who you ask...

[Spurtacular]

Robert Morris did indeed offer to pay for them with a... tax.

1781 Superintendent of Finance Robert Morris attempted to expand governmental powers beyond the limits set by the Articles of Confederation. He released a Report on Public Credit, calling for the Confederation government to assume the entire national debt, issue new interest-bearing debt certificates, and impose tariffs and internal taxes to pay the interest costs. This plan essentially prefigured Alexander Hamilton’s later fiscal program.

Morris’s attempts to raise revenue were rebuffed at every turn. Rhode Island, for example, objected to his proposal for a national tariff (an import duty of 5 percent on foreign goods), leading to its defeat in Congress.

If we're gonna talk history, better not gloss over the important details, tbh...

Glad we could not gloss over details that support my thesis. :tu

[ElNono]

Glad we could not gloss over details that support my thesis. :tu

I disagree, it doesn't, but glad we agree that "the country was not about a federal overreach in the form of taxes" is revisionist history. :tu

You asked me to review the history of this country's founding. That's the exercise we've done here.

I will agree that taxation was a thorny topic back then, but not because of 'federal overreach' (that concept will come up much later, when there was actually an organized federal government), but because taxation from the British is what largely triggered the American Revolutionary war.

[boutons_deux]

I disagree, it doesn't, but glad we agree that "the country was not about a federal overreach in the form of taxes" is revisionist history. :tu

You asked me to review the history of this country's founding. That's the exercise we've done here.

I will agree that taxation was a thorny topic back then, but not because of 'federal overreach' (that concept will come up much later, when there was actually an organized federal government), but because taxation from the British is what largely triggered the American Revolutionary war.

" By allowing the East India Company to sell tea directly in the American colonies, the Tea Act cut out colonial merchants, and the prominent and influential colonial merchants

The Tea Act revived the boycott on tea and inspired direct resistance ...

The act also made allies of merchants and patriot groups like the Sons of Liberty. Patriot mobs intimidated the company’s agents into resigning their commissions."

So the Boston Tea Party wasn't fundamentally about taxation, but the King with the Tea Act giving the East India Company an import monopoly AND selling directly rather than to colonial middlemen.

the catch phrase "no taxation without representation" masks the real history of the Boston Tea Party

[ducks]

Biden
Down 10
https://www.dailywire.com/news/48996/joe-bidens-support-drops-10-points-following-paul-bois?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwbrand

[Spurtacular]

I disagree, it doesn't, but glad we agree that "the country was not about a federal overreach in the form of taxes" is revisionist history. :tu

You asked me to review the history of this country's founding. That's the exercise we've done here.

I will agree that taxation was a thorny topic back then, but not because of 'federal overreach' (that concept will come up much later, when there was actually an organized federal government), but because taxation from the British is what largely triggered the American Revolutionary war.

You can disagree all you want; it doesn't make you not blatantly wrong. It wasn't just the British. They would've nipped those issues in the bud much sooner if they believed in a non localized tax system. They didn't. Shay's rebellion would be a good example of that. Hell, we fought the most expensive Civil War in history to that point and no federal income tax was instituted. Clearly, things changed over time for reasons that can be debated; but it's of no matter on your idea that taxes were a strong backbone of the initial American foundation.

[spurraider21]

Biden
Down 10
https://www.dailywire.com/news/48996/joe-bidens-support-drops-10-points-following-paul-bois?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwbrand
good.

warren 2020

[Spurtacular]

good.

warren 2020

That appearance on the JV stage paying dividends?

:lol Democrats
:lol MSM

[spurraider21]

That appearance on the JV stage paying dividends?

:lol Democrats
:lol MSM
i had previously named her as my preferred candidate. if biden/sanders lose votes she's the next one up

[DarrinS]

i had previously named her as my preferred candidate. if biden/sanders lose votes she's the next one up

Did you find a house?

[Spurtacular]

i had previously named her as my preferred candidate. if biden/sanders lose votes she's the next one up

Trump would wipe the floor with Pocahontas, tbh.

[spurraider21]

Did you find a house?
indeed. purchased a condo. closing in ~2 weeks

[spurraider21]

Trump would wipe the floor with Pocahontas, tbh.
you'd say that for every democrat tbh

[DarrinS]

indeed. purchased a condo. closing in ~2 weeks

Cool. :tu

[spurraider21]

Cool. :tu
was there for just over 24 hours, had about 5-6 viewings that we had targeted, made 2 offers, got the one we wanted more. worked out pretty well all things considered. and ridiculously cheap compared to the LA market

[DarrinS]

was there for just over 24 hours, had about 5-6 viewings that we had targeted, made 2 offers, got the one we wanted more. worked out pretty well all things considered. and ridiculously cheap compared to the LA market

Can't imagine buying anything in CA. Get ready to sign a million papers. Hand cramps, tbh. :lol

[spurraider21]

Can't imagine buying anything in CA. Get ready to sign a million papers. Hand cramps, tbh. :lol
we did most of it there already. made the offer saturday evening, were informed of the acceptance that night, filled out the docs on sunday morning before flying out. its an all cash offer, so no financing contingencies. if we didnt get this place, we wouldnt have been able to afford a cash offer on the other property we placed an offer for, so that was another plus

[DarrinS]

we did most of it there already. made the offer saturday evening, were informed of the acceptance that night, filled out the docs on sunday morning before flying out. its an all cash offer, so no financing contingencies. if we didnt get this place, we wouldnt have been able to afford a cash offer on the other property we placed an offer for, so that was another plus


Full cash offer? Damn, even better. :tu

[ducks]

Kamala Harris is NOT eligible to be President. Her father arrived from Jamaica in 1961—mother from India arrived in 1960 Neither parent was a legal resident for 5 years prior to Harris’s birth, a requirement for naturalization she was raised in Canada.

[spurraider21]

Kamala Harris is NOT eligible to be President. Her father arrived from Jamaica in 1961—mother from India arrived in 1960 Neither parent was a legal resident for 5 years prior to Harris’s birth, a requirement for naturalization she was raised in Canada.
black candidate? go full birther. we've seen this before.

[spurraider21]

Full cash offer? Damn, even better. :tu
yeah, there were only 2 places on our list where that was possible. one of them was a dump upon viewing and not worth living in for 4 years. we got pretty lucky, as homes were flying off the market within a week of listing for the past 2-3 months (in our general price range, at least)

[Winehole23]

black candidate? go full birther. we've seen this before.we'll see it many times again.

[Spurminator]

Kamala Harris is NOT eligible to be President. Her father arrived from Jamaica in 1961—mother from India arrived in 1960 Neither parent was a legal resident for 5 years prior to Harris’s birth, a requirement for naturalization she was raised in Canada.

If she's the candidate I hope Trump goes all in on this.

[spurraider21]

:lmao she was born in oakland and moved to canada when she was 12 :lmao

[ducks]

black candidate? go full birther. we've seen this before.

Has nothing to do with skin color
I did not think Cruz was legally be able to run since he had dual citizen with Canada and USA

[Pavlov]

Kamala Harris is NOT eligible to be President. Her father arrived from Jamaica in 1961—mother from India arrived in 1960 Neither parent was a legal resident for 5 years prior to Harris’s birth, a requirement for naturalization she was raised in Canada.:lol Give the link to the Facebook post you copied this from.

[Pavlov]

Oh never mind. It was a fucking Jacob Wohl tweet.

And you're wondering why accounts like his get suspended.:lmao

[AaronY]

Has nothing to do with skin color
I did not think Cruz was legally be able to run since he had dual citizen with Canada and USA

Oh so it's just anyone who goes against trump

[Spurtacular]

you'd say that for every democrat tbh

It might true. But I tend to think Obama's VP or the "revolutionary" Bernie would have a better chance than the water-downed version of Hillary.

[spurraider21]

It might true. But I tend to think Obama's VP or the "revolutionary" Bernie would have a better chance than the water-downed version of Hillary.
obama's VP and hillary are more similar to each other than either is to warren

[Spurtacular]

obama's VP and hillary are more similar to each other than either is to warren

Eh. Either way, Warren's the watered-down version of Hillary.

[spurraider21]

Eh. Either way, Warren's the watered-down version of Hillary.
i dont know how anybody can be a watered down hillary. she was herself a watered down candidate who was just singing the same tunes as her predecessors. warren and clinton are only similar in that they are old women with light hair

[pgardn]

Eh. Either way, Warren's the watered-down version of Hillary.

oh yeah.

Cause they are both older women.

[ElNono]

You can disagree all you want; it doesn't make you not blatantly wrong. It wasn't just the British. They would've nipped those issues in the bud much sooner if they believed in a non localized tax system. They didn't. Shay's rebellion would be a good example of that. Hell, we fought the most expensive Civil War in history to that point and no federal income tax was instituted. Clearly, things changed over time for reasons that can be debated; but it's of no matter on your idea that taxes were a strong backbone of the initial American foundation.

Now you're assigning me statements I never made. I never claimed taxes were a 'strong' backbone of the initial American foundation.

I simply stated that there was no implicit limitation to taxation when the Union was formed, and dispelled the notion that the people involved in the creation of the Union were against taxation in general.

The fact that Rhode Island opposed Robert Morris (one of the six signatories of the US Constitution), also means all the other states that formed the Union at the time actually did not oppose said tariff. That's hardly being against taxation. Not to mention States were taxing themselves.

But this circles around people trying to read 'intent' in history by carefully picking and choosing (not you personally, this happens at all levels all the time). Happens with law 'originalists' too.

This also opens another can of worms, the fact that we're not living in the same context, nor is the Union the same as at the time of it's creation (in every aspect: economic, political, social, international, etc), and so it's certainly debatable if anything from back then is merely superfluous now (certainly has happened with a number of hot items, like slavery, women's role in society, etc).

Anyhow, thanks for keeping it civil, even if we don't agree. :tu

[ElNono]

was there for just over 24 hours, had about 5-6 viewings that we had targeted, made 2 offers, got the one we wanted more. worked out pretty well all things considered. and ridiculously cheap compared to the LA market

Nice! Good luck out there.

[Spurtacular]

I simply stated that there was no implicit limitation to taxation when the Union was formed

But there was.

[Nathan89]

Gentrification bad. Open borders good.

[Nathan89]

Automation is taking the jobs. We endorse ubi and open borders.

[Reck]

Biden
Down 10
https://www.dailywire.com/news/48996/joe-bidens-support-drops-10-points-following-paul-bois?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwbrand

So not only are polls good now but expedited overnight polls are even better now? :lol

[Thread]

So not only are polls good now but expedited overnight polls are even better now? :lol

Excellent news, Recky!

[Nathan89]

Kamala will be the Dem candidate.

[Thread]

Kamala will be the Dem candidate.

He'll leave her where he left Clinton...where he found her. She'll use Hussein Obama's cross fingered promise:::"I will be President to all Americans, black or white alike."

Lasted about a year, maybe 2 before he race baited the countryside his remaining Presidency.

Even making that broken promise she'll grudge it, in full knowledge she'll break it. Hussein had every intention of keeping his...his brothers set him straight Day 1. She has no such intention.

& my fellow dumb fucks we'll fall for it. "Oh, God, I'm doing so financially well, I need to be tied to the flag pole out in the front yard and beaten severely. Then I'll tie my husband to the pole and he can get his just desserts. Oh. Ohl, I feel so bad. Beat me hard, just leave me my $, fully intact."

[ElNono]

But there was.

Your claim, your burden of proof. We already established that Robert Morris was a proponent of federal taxation, and the US Constitution that formed the Union and signed by all States at the time did not impose any such limitation.

[Spurtacular]

Your claim, your burden of proof.

You've already proved it. But I wouldn't take it upon myself to teach you basic US history otherwise.

[Spurtacular]

Robert Morris was a proponent of federal taxation, and the US Constitution that formed the Union and signed by all States at the time did not impose any such limitation.

As was Alexander Hamilton. And they gained no traction. Hard dots to connect here, eh?

[Nathan89]

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1145786868648370181?s=20

Biden has no chance of hanging on. Harris will win the nomination and likely the presidency.

[Will Hunting]

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1145786868648370181?s=20

Biden has no chance of hanging on. Harris will win the nomination and likely the presidency.
Meanwhile despite the media narrative about how great Buttigieg did, his polling didn't noticeably improve at all. His 15 minutes is just about up. Booker didn't get much of a bump in the polls either.

Warren has a better shot than Harris imo.

[CosmicCowboy]

Kamala will be the Dem candidate.

Seriously premature prediction based off your perception she "won" something by going after old Joe. That was a premeditated attack that will hurt her more than help her in the long run.

[Will Hunting]

Seriously premature prediction based off your perception she "won" something by going after old Joe. That was a premeditated attack that will hurt her more than help her in the long run.
I’m not sure if it will hurt her, but it’s definitely premature ejaculation to act like she’s become a favorite for the nomination.

She didn’t look atrong as much as senile Joe looked unprepared for not seeing that attack coming, she was clearly planning that weeks in advance.

[CosmicCowboy]

I’m not sure if it will hurt her, but it’s definitely premature ejaculation to act like she’s become a favorite for the nomination.

She didn’t look atrong as much as senile Joe looked unprepared for not seeing that attack coming, she was clearly planning that weeks in advance.

Yeah, her office even had the "girl in pigtails" photo ready to roll out immediately after the debate. It was in extremely bad taste and a lot of traditional Democrat money raisers found it offensive. Like I said, it will end up hurting her more than helping.

[CosmicCowboy]

I still dont understand her point. Joe was absolutely right that if you want to get legislation passed in Congress you sometimes have to work with people you find distasteful.

[Nathan89]

Seriously premature prediction based off your perception she "won" something by going after old Joe. That was a premeditated attack that will hurt her more than help her in the long run.

I'd say she's my favorite to win. Yeah, any definitive statement is premature.

The black lady painting the white guy as a racist based isn't going to hurt her in the Dem primary.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'd say she's my favorite to win. Yeah, any definitive statement is premature.

The black lady painting the white guy as a racist based isn't going to hurt her in the Dem primary.

It is when the guy was clearly not a racist. It was a cheap shot appreciated only by shallow intellects.

[CosmicCowboy]

And compulsory bussing was a fucking disaster.

[Will Hunting]

Yeah, her office even had the "girl in pigtails" photo ready to roll out immediately after the debate. It was in extremely bad taste and a lot of traditional Democrat money raisers found it offensive. Like I said, it will end up hurting her more than helping.
If she ever gets to the point (I don't think she will) where there's enough momentum behind her as a candidate, those same traditional Democrat money raisers will throw their support behind her to help get her over the hump in exchange for her giving in to their agenda :lol (the same way they did with Obama after he won the first few primary states in 2008)


I still dont understand her point. Joe was absolutely right that if you want to get legislation passed in Congress you sometimes have to work with people you find distasteful.
I think she clearly knew what Biden was saying but saw an opportunity to take a shot, which ended up working since Biden did an awful job of getting that point across about having to work with adversaries, and instead he looked like he was trying to champion state's rights.

[ElNono]

As was Alexander Hamilton. And they gained no traction. Hard dots to connect here, eh?

They sure did gain traction, seeing there's no language on the Constitution putting any barriers to such taxation. Not only that, but tariffs, another form of general taxation, already existed by the 1790s.

In other words, I don't expect you to admit you were wrong, I'll let the readers reach their own conclusions considering the evidence presented...

[ElNono]

Seriously premature prediction

Any prediction at this point is premature. Votes have not even been cast yet, and that always changes perceptions.

[Pavlov]

Any prediction at this point is premature. Votes have not even been cast yet, and that always changes perceptions.Trump was polling at ~1% at this point.

[DarrinS]

I still dont understand her point. Joe was absolutely right that if you want to get legislation passed in Congress you sometimes have to work with people you find distasteful.

In stories about this, it's often omitted that those distasteful people were Democrats.

[Pavlov]

Darrin waves the bloody shirt of Civil Rights he's not really all that crazy about anyway....

[Will Hunting]

:cry muh party of Lincoln :cry

[Spurtacular]

They sure did gain traction, seeing there's no language on the Constitution putting any barriers to such taxation. Not only that, but tariffs, another form of general taxation, already existed by the 1790s.

In other words, I don't expect you to admit you were wrong, I'll let the readers reach their own conclusions considering the evidence presented...

I commend you on your argumentation and what not; but I'll still have to admit you're wrong. The fact of the matter is that the USA was founded as a largely federal tax averse nation.

[spurraider21]

In stories about this, it's often omitted that those distasteful people were Democrats.
how is that even remotely relevant to the discussion at hand lol. just gotta stick ur d'souza in out of habit?

[Will Hunting]

how is that even remotely relevant to the discussion at hand lol. just gotta stick ur d'souza in out of habit?
:cry did you know the Democratic party used to be the racist party :cry

:cry well it did and even though it doesn't matter at all anymore you better not ever forget it :cry

[ElNono]

I commend you on your argumentation and what not; but I'll still have to admit you're wrong. The fact of the matter is that the USA was founded as a largely federal tax averse nation.

Like I said, dogma

[ElNono]

how is that even remotely relevant to the discussion at hand lol. just gotta stick ur d'souza in out of habit?

dem pompoms not gonna wave demselves...

[Spurminator]

In stories about this, it's often omitted that those distasteful people were Democrats.

This is really the dumbest political talking point of all time and needs to be retired. Unless you're content to be viewed as a retard.

[Spurtacular]

Like I said, dogma

Your own argument is shat on by glariing realities. The federal income tax amendment wasn't even put in place 'til 1914. And even then, it wasn't even ratified.

[Thread]

I still dont understand her point. Joe was absolutely right that if you want to get legislation passed in Congress you sometimes have to work with people you find distasteful.

True, CC, but, he said it at the wrong time. Her people had already alerted Media about the trap she'd set up on Biden. He never stood a chance.

[Nathan89]

When is the next pander to illegals event?

[spurraider21]

When is the next pander to illegals event?
you would know better than anyone, since you're the one who actively looks for such stories on google/twitter

[Trainwreck2100]

you would know better than anyone, since you're the one who actively looks for such stories on google/twitter

he's 100% got a facebook group started by the russians

[ElNono]

Your own argument is shat on by glariing realities. The federal income tax amendment wasn't even put in place 'til 1914. And even then, it wasn't even ratified.

Incorrect. The first federal income tax was instituted by Lincoln and Congress in 1861, under the name Revenue Act, to fund the Civil War (and repealed by Congress in 1871).

But, regardless, different forms of federal taxation existed before then, like tariffs, as already mentioned (The Revenue act also added additional tariffs, BTW). Pretending they didn't exist doesn't make them go away and they hurt the wallet just the same.

Now, if your claim is that the nation was averse to, specifically, a federal income tax, I would tend to agree with that. However, that's quite different from the claim of being a 'largely federal tax averse nation'.

As a matter of fact, there was simply no way to sustain the federal government system created by the US Constitution without some degree of federal funding. That's why the Constitution delegated on Congress the ability to:

...shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States...

The notion that States would sign off on that language and not expect the federal government to do just exactly what they signed off on is on it's face ridiculous.

As I said earlier, this is the problem of picking and choosing what part of history we want to acknowledge. And I understand that people get emotional when they get their dogma challenged. However, that's not my problem.

[Spurtacular]

Incorrect. The first federal income tax was instituted by Lincoln and Congress in 1861, under the name Revenue Act, to fund the Civil War (and repealed by Congress in 1871).

But, regardless, different forms of federal taxation existed before then, like tariffs, as already mentioned (The Revenue act also added additional tariffs, BTW). Pretending they didn't exist doesn't make them go away and they hurt the wallet just the same.

Now, if your claim is that the nation was averse to, specifically, a federal income tax, I would tend to agree with that. However, that's quite different from the claim of being a 'largely federal tax averse nation'.

As a matter of fact, there was simply no way to sustain the federal government system created by the US Constitution without some degree of federal funding. That's why the Constitution delegated on Congress the ability to:

...shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States...

The notion that States would sign off on that language and not expect the federal government to do just exactly what they signed off on is on it's face ridiculous.

As I said earlier, this is the problem of picking and choosing what part of history we want to acknowledge. And I understand that people get emotional when they get their dogma challenged. However, that's not my problem.

You're into the minutia of this way more than I am, tbh. Yea, there were tariffs on imports; but those were taxes on outsiders and not a direct tax on citizenry. Fact is the populous was very much against federal overreach in the form of taxation. Washington as much as anyone was keenly aware of that reality. As it is, there were debts to be paid though, and people were not complaining about outsiders paying it.

[Spurtacular]

As I said earlier, this is the problem of picking and choosing what part of history we want to acknowledge. And I understand that people get emotional when they get their dogma challenged. However, that's not my problem.

:lol Still going with that narrative. Prevailing attitudes were against a strong federal govt. and direct federal taxation. Were it not for the lingering aftermath of the war and some shifty maneuvering, the Constitution as we know it would not have been put in place because this was just the general mindset. That's not dogma whatsoever. I've read various histories from the time, and that's a consistent theme.

[ElNono]

You're into the minutia of this way more than I am, tbh. Yea, there were tariffs on imports; but those were taxes on outsiders and not a direct tax on citizenry. Fact is the populous was very much against federal overreach in the form of taxation. Washington as much as anyone was keenly aware of that reality. As it is, there were debts to be paid though, and people were not complaining about outsiders paying it.

Tariffs are a tax on the citizenship. This is economics 101. Merchants don't absorb the tariffs, they pass it on to importers, which in turn pass it on to consumers, and are the ones actually paying for them. That's why tariffs are essentially a form of regressive taxation (ie: like a sales tax is).

Which is also why tariffs have been largely shunned in modern open markets, as it affects the poor the most.

If anything, a possible viable argument was that the lack of understanding in macroeconomics worked relatively well to keep people conned.

[ElNono]

:lol Still going with that narrative. Prevailing attitudes were against a strong federal govt. and direct federal taxation. Were it not for the lingering aftermath of the war and some shifty maneuvering, the Constitution as we know it would not have been put in place because this was just the general mindset. That's not dogma whatsoever. I've read various histories from the time, and that's a consistent theme.

In the context of the era, I'm fairly certain people were more concerned to make sure the war was won, and the federal govt had enough monies to sustain an army, should they need it again. That's the general theme in the Constitution (where national defense has somewhat of a privileged position).

I would agree that once the British were dealt with and the country actually had to work within the Union, sentiments against the federal government started to build up, coming to a head with the Civil War. But even then, the country was split basically in two. That's not a majority either.

[Spurtacular]

In the context of the era, I'm fairly certain people were more concerned to make sure the war was won, and the federal govt had enough monies to sustain an army, should they need it again. That's the general theme in the Constitution (where national defense has somewhat of a privileged position).

I would agree that once the British were dealt with and the country actually had to work within the Union, sentiments against the federal government started to build up, coming to a head with the Civil War. But even then, the country was split basically in two. That's not a majority either.

But they weren't. Soldiers in the continental army habitually weren't paid and requests for money were routinely ignored. 'The Quartet' by Joseph Ellis (link) (https://www.amazon.com/Quartet-Orchestrating-American-Revolution-1783-1789/dp/080417248X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2GHM9U3G8YRE8&keywords=the+quartet+joseph+ellis&qid=1562066519&s=gateway&sprefix=the+quartet%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-1) is a book that candidly documents that reality. It's been a while, but I actually am fairly certain David McCullough's 1776 (link) (https://www.amazon.com/1776-David-McCullough/dp/0743226720/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2GIIV5FMSPMLB&keywords=1776+david+mccullough&qid=1562066669&s=gateway&sprefix=1776+D%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-2)addresses that, too.

[Spurtacular]

Tariffs are a tax on the citizenship. This is economics 101. Merchants don't absorb the tariffs, they pass it on to importers, which in turn pass it on to consumers, and are the ones actually paying for them. That's why tariffs are essentially a form of regressive taxation (ie: like a sales tax is).

Which is also why tariffs have been largely shunned in modern open markets, as it affects the poor the most.

If anything, a possible viable argument was that the lack of understanding in macroeconomics worked relatively well to keep people conned.

That's why I spoke in such terminology as direct taxation (consumer/income) vs. indirect taxation (tariffs/etc.).

[Spurtacular]

In the context of the era, I'm fairly certain people were more concerned to make sure the war was won, and the federal govt had enough monies to sustain an army, should they need it again. That's the general theme in the Constitution (where national defense has somewhat of a privileged position).

I would agree that once the British were dealt with and the country actually had to work within the Union, sentiments against the federal government started to build up, coming to a head with the Civil War. But even then, the country was split basically in two. That's not a majority either.

Frankly, there was no consensus that they were fighting for a federal govt. in the first place. People identified with their state more than the idea of union at that time. Our initial formation as a (loose) confederation reflects that.

[ElNono]

But they weren't. Soldiers in the continental army habitually weren't paid and requests for money were routinely ignored. 'The Quartet' by Joseph Ellis (link) (https://www.amazon.com/Quartet-Orchestrating-American-Revolution-1783-1789/dp/080417248X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2GHM9U3G8YRE8&keywords=the+quartet+joseph+ellis&qid=1562066519&s=gateway&sprefix=the+quartet%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-1) is a book that candidly documents that reality. It's been a while, but I actually am fairly certain David McCullough's 1776 (link) (https://www.amazon.com/1776-David-McCullough/dp/0743226720/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2GIIV5FMSPMLB&keywords=1776+david+mccullough&qid=1562066669&s=gateway&sprefix=1776+D%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-2)addresses that, too.

Thanks for the links!

That's what I mean by "the federal govt had enough monies to sustain an army". Once the dust settled, the general lack of funding was fairly evident, thus the inclination to make absolutely clear in the US Constitution that the federal government had the means to impose and collect tariffs, taxes, etc in order to fund it. One could even argue that the 2nd amendment was a derivative of that situation, to ensure people would be armed and ready in case an organized militia couldn't be properly funded (clearly, there was no fears of dem lefties taking away guns at the time).

While it's clearly way more sexy to talk about the birth of the nation in terms of fighting for freedom and independence (and that happened), the utilitarian aspect for generals and politicians was to actually put strength in numbers and have a militia that could defend the Union in multiple fronts (don't forget Pensacola against Spaniards too), and obviously that required funding. On the other hand, once the enemy was defeated, and peace came about, there was this new reality of law and order, and over time, it clearly that didn't sit well with some folks. Over time, that disconnect clearly became more prevalent.

Generally speaking, people don't want to pay taxes. Even when States imposed taxes, people didn't like it. I would argue that even applies to every other country and person in the world. But that doesn't mean that there's no utility on the strength in numbers. In a generally lawless society (much like in many dictatorships), unless you're well connected, the amount of money you would lose is way, way bigger than any taxation imposed in the US.

Point being, that's the kind of insight that should be revered about the forefathers. Even if they were utilitarian, and understood that taxing wasn't popular, they understood it was much more beneficial in the long game.

[ElNono]

That's why I spoke in such terminology as direct taxation (consumer/income) vs. indirect taxation (tariffs/etc.).

I'm ok with an argument based loosely on "obviously, the country was founded with taxation in plain sight, people were just too dumb to realize they were taxed"... and, obviously, I don't say that to mock the people at the time.

Contextually, it's probably largely true that they had many more things to worry about than pick up a copy of "The Wealth of Nations" and read through it.

[Spurtacular]

Thanks for the links!


I don't have to, if you prefer I didn't.

[Nathan89]

https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1146454998416601089?s=20

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1146454733911146496?s=20

These people hate America. That's why they are fine with open borders.

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1146454998416601089?s=20

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1146454733911146496?s=20

These people hate America. That's why they are fine with open borders.:lol Nathan, you're such a drama queef.

[koriwhat]

https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1146454998416601089?s=20

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1146454733911146496?s=20

These people hate America. That's why they are fine with open borders.

just look at those two "dudes"... they're as beta as they come. that's all you need to know about the hate america crowd; full of straight up pussies!

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1146505139852849154

[Reck]

just look at those two "dudes"... they're as beta as they come. that's all you need to know about the hate america crowd; full of straight up pussies!

did you say beta?

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2016/10/CruzSad1.png

[Reck]

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1146505139852849154

Trump is an amazing shape then.

That this thing is polling at any % is a massive problem in this country.

[koriwhat]

did you say beta?

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/files/2016/10/CruzSad1.png

ok, cool? what are you getting at? poking fun at the GOP doesn't phase me one bit because idc either way. have your fun!

[Will Hunting]

Trump is an amazing shape then.

That this thing is polling at any % is a massive problem in this country.
It’s just dumb housewives who are on anti-depressants and read her “spirituality” books to cope with the fact they’re husband is dicking his secretary.

At some point that support won’t be enough to keep her going :lol

[Chris]

Trump is an amazing shape then.

That this thing is polling at any % is a massive problem in this country.

Looking like Trump vs. Warren. Most of the pro-socialism democrats that I've talked to here in Texas swear Warren has a huge brain and is definitely not a radical.

[Pavlov]

Looking like Trump vs. Warren. Most of the pro-socialism democrats that I've talked to here in Texas swear Warren has a huge brain and is definitely not a radical.Well she's smarter than Trump but that's the lowest bar possible.

[koriwhat]

Looking like Trump vs. Warren. Most of the pro-socialism democrats that I've talked to here in Texas swear Warren has a huge brain and is definitely not a radical.

i haven't come across any of those yet except while in LA, Ca. ugh...

[Thread]

Looking like Trump vs. Warren. Most of the pro-socialism democrats that I've talked to here in Texas swear Warren has a huge brain and is definitely not a radical.

Her mouth would end up on the same curb that fat ass Clinton's did: "Now, say good night."

"Oh, yeah, she has my vote."---come 1st Tuesday next November:::he/she slides that curtain across. Pulls out that squared up piece of white bond, opens it, places it on the ballot. The 401k computations. He/She bites her fist stiflllying a yelp He/She has it on the laptop, on the desktop, but, the square of bond is for on the ride home on transit, on the shitter, at the desk when no one is looking, at luncheon, with coffee & dessert when no one has tagged along......"Fuck it, I ain't givin' this up."---checks the old man, folds the paper, slides it down into (that) pocket and slides that curtain across.

[Chris]

i haven't come across any of those yet except while in LA, Ca. ugh...

I have a lot of family from California - specifically San Francisco. They were brainwashed well in the 60's.

[Chris]

Her mouth would end up on the same curb that fat ass Clinton's did: "Now, say good night."

"Oh, yeah, she has my vote."---come 1st Tuesday next November:::he/she slides that curtain across. Pulls out that squared up piece of white bond, opens it, places it on the ballot. The 401k computations. He/She bites her fist stiflllying a yelp He/She has it on the laptop, on the desktop, but, the square of bond is for on the ride home on transit, on the shitter, at the desk when no one is looking, at luncheon, with coffee & dessert when no one has tagged along......"Fuck it, I ain't givin' this up."---checks the old man, folds the paper, slides it down into (that) pocket and slides that curtain across.

Looking forward to the day when she has to go off script and no teleprompter. Her live podcasts were a disaster and the old man has no problems going improv.

[Spurminator]

Looking like Trump vs. Warren. Most of the pro-socialism democrats that I've talked to here in Texas swear Warren has a huge brain and is definitely not a radical.

Pretending you talk to people is your funniest bit. :lol

[Will Hunting]

Pretending you talk to people is your funniest bit. :lol
What are you talking about? You don't think Chris regularly mingles with the pro-socialism democrats here in Texas?

[spurraider21]

Pretending you talk to people is your funniest bit. :lol
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/394/032/87c.jpg

[Will Hunting]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/394/032/87c.jpg
Wait....is that actually supposed to be a serious tweet?

[Chris]

Poor fella took an L some years ago and has been trying to paint a narrative of my personal life ever since...

A disturbing individual.

[Pavlov]

Wait....is that actually supposed to be a serious tweet?:lol "hipster coffee shop" was his go-to phrase until someone posted all his tweets with it at once.

[spurraider21]

Wait....is that actually supposed to be a serious tweet?
wohl had probably dozens of tweets in that same format tbh :lol... gullible idiots bought them hook line and sinker

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/394/037/796.png

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-just-left-a-hipster-coffee-shop

[Chris]

Nobody takes Jacob Wohl seriously anymore, but the Left loves to kick a dead horse :lol

[Pavlov]

Nobody takes Jacob Wohl seriously anymore, but the Left loves to kick a dead horse :lolDid you used to take him seriously, Qhris?

[Will Hunting]

Nobody takes Jacob Wohl seriously anymore
If there was a point where you did take him seriously (I assume there was given the way you phrased that) then you should look into the viability of consuming an entire bottle of Ambien tonight.

[spurraider21]

Nobody takes Jacob Wohl seriously anymore, but the Left loves to kick a dead horse :lol
why not?

[AaronY]

Her mouth would end up on the same curb that fat ass Clinton's did: "Now, say good night."

"Oh, yeah, she has my vote."---come 1st Tuesday next November:::he/she slides that curtain across. Pulls out that squared up piece of white bond, opens it, places it on the ballot. The 401k computations. He/She bites her fist stiflllying a yelp He/She has it on the laptop, on the desktop, but, the square of bond is for on the ride home on transit, on the shitter, at the desk when no one is looking, at luncheon, with coffee & dessert when no one has tagged along......"Fuck it, I ain't givin' this up."---checks the old man, folds the paper, slides it down into (that) pocket and slides that curtain across.

My gf is a big fan of good old Pocahantas herself sadly as im more of a centrist (aka I spend some time living in reality). The other day she sheepishly said "Warren's got some new plans out" while looking at her tablet (didnt even bother to make eye contact as she was nervous you know) so I said "oh really, whats the government gonna pay for now?" lol she got superpissed. Turns out it both "plans" was more government handouts amazingly enough. maybe im psychic who knows

i like how she either A) plans to tax wealth and big business (novel groundbreaking idea for the left btw dunno why no one ever thought of this before) or B) have the government or big business pay for stuff and people act like she's a combo of thomas edison+ alexander graham bell except maybe more inventive than both of them combined

[Thread]

^^^

[boutons_deux]

Mischievous Republicans donate to keep love guru Marianne Williamson alive in Democratic primary

Not because they’re rooting for her to win, but in hopes of keeping her on stage in future debates.

Republicans say they’re just enjoying a bit of campaign fun. Williamson declined to respond, and it’s impossible to know how much money she’s received from people who don’t actually want her to win the White House.

Jeff Roe, a Houston-based GOP consultant and Cruz’s 2016 campaign manager, set the mischief in motion shortly after the debate,

when he called on Republicans to donate $1 to Williamson to help ensure she qualifies for future debates.

To clinch a spot in the third debate in September, candidates need at least 130,000 individual donors (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/2020-presidential-candidates-at-risk-of-being-cut-from-debates) and 2% support in multiple polls.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2019/07/03/mischievous-republicans-donate-keep-love-guru-marianne-williamson-alive-democratic-primary (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2019/07/03/mischievous-republicans-donate-keep-love-guru-marianne-williamson-alive-democratic-primary)

[ElNono]

If I'm Sheldon Adelson, I would fund Biden all the way through, tbh... He's shillary 2.0...

[boutons_deux]

ratfucking is Repug SOP

[koriwhat]

ratfucking is Repug SOP

:lmao nutcase

[Reck]

:lmao nutcase

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/397/C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg

[koriwhat]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/397/C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg

is that you looking in the mirror trying to figure out which of the "50 sexes" you might just be? dicklessReck.... tsk tsk

[Nathan89]

https://twitter.com/andrewklavan/status/1147290348042874880?s=20

I wonder who she is going to vote for.

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/andrewklavan/status/1147290348042874880?s=20

I wonder who she is going to vote for.The fat guy?

[Will Hunting]

The fat guy?
Speaking of stuffing one’s face:

https://images-i.jpimedia.uk/imagefetch/c_fill,f_auto,h_450,q_auto:eco,w_900/https://inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/trump-fast-food.jpg

[spurraider21]

never forget

https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/105679469-1547568108271gettyimages-1082818592.jpg?v=1547568191&w=1400&h=950

McDonald Trump

[Will Hunting]

To be fair that fat chick seems like a crack pot reading that article.

Still not sure why conservatives need to get so worked up over some random fat lady though.

[koriwhat]

https://twitter.com/andrewklavan/status/1147290348042874880?s=20

I wonder who she is going to vote for.

:lmao at klavan's comment... so fucking true! liberalism is about making the undesirable desirable. it's how you break a society down and make it seem like there never was a renaissance of sorts in the arts, history, etc.

[Isitjustme?]

1147299570193448962

Lol sad but true

[Reck]

1147299570193448962

Lol sad but true

One of the few things she got right......then she got blow back and apologized.

I would have sold T-Shirts out of that.

[Spurtacular]

1147299570193448962

Lol sad but true

:cry Hillary's a martyr for the truth :cry

:rollin

[Spurtacular]

One of the few things she got right......then she got blow back and apologized.

I would have sold T-Shirts out of that.

Trump supporters aren't welfare trannies who are as courageous as you.

:lmao

[Spurtacular]

Slob and Eunuch lamenting that their psychopath was too stupid to stay on message.

She was literally standing behind a podium that said STRONGER TOGETHER as she called a quarter of the nation deplorable FFS.

[pgardn]

Trump supporters aren't welfare trannies who are as courageous as you.

:lmao

I need my job digging coal back... wahhhh!

How can I farm without subsidies.....

gtfoh. With all the subsidies Big Oil gets.
We can’t compete.
But we love Capitalism wahhhh!

[Spurtacular]

I need my job digging coal back... wahhhh!

How can I farm without subsidies.....

gtfoh. With all the subsidies Big Oil gets.
We can’t compete.
But we love Capitalism wahhhh!

I don't mind the rational discussion; but that's a whole other thing. She's a moron for grinning ear to ear while bragging she was going to put a lot of people out of work. WTF did you expect when you nominated a psychopath for office?

[pgardn]

I don't mind the rational discussion; but that's a whole other thing. She's a moron for grinning ear to ear while bragging she was going to put a lot of people out of work. WTF did you expect when you nominated a psychopath for office?

Bragging by telling the truth concerning antiquated jobs.
Makes sense should’ve lied, works for orange man

[Spurtacular]

Bragging by telling the truth concerning antiquated jobs.
Makes sense should’ve lied, works for orange man

What did you expect when you nominated a psychopath? You're a fucking idiot. Come to terms.

[Reck]

Like she had a chance winning West Virginia anyways. lol derp

[Spurtacular]

Like she had a chance winning West Virginia anyways. lol derp

Cos the rest the country couldn't see her maniacally laughing.

:lmao Dumb fucking eunuch :lmao

[Chucho]

:lmao at klavan's comment... so fucking true! liberalism is about making the undesirable desirable. it's how you break a society down and make it seem like there never was a renaissance of sorts in the arts, history, etc.

Glorification of obesity is just sickening. Words like "voluptuous", "thick" and "curvy" are the new synonyms for obese, gluttonous and "lucky spandex became en vogue and Murican males are hornier than ever".

Its promoting self-induced disease. It's disgusting and supportive parties hopefully get sued by these fatties once a limb or two is chopped off. Being fat is almost exclusively a choice. Just like being a pedophile, murderer and whatnot. Putting the fork down really is easier than a moronic, pitiful marketing campaign to excuse lack of accountability.

[pgardn]

What did you expect when you nominated a psychopath? You're a fucking idiot. Come to terms.

Psychopath bullshit.

Manipulating coronated wench.
Get your assessments in line fckwad.

[Spurtacular]

Psychopath bullshit.

Manipulating coronated wench.
Get your assessments in line fckwad.

You're doing that jibberish thing, Less Than Blake.

So, what'd you expect when you nominated a psychopath? You still haven't came to terms, fuckwad?

[pgardn]

You're doing that jibberish thing, Less Than Blake.

So, what'd you expect when you nominated a psychopath? You still haven't came to terms, fuckwad?

Please use your own curse words Mr. Wordsmith.

Shillary is a calculating politician.
Not a psychopath.
Just stop.

Please let go of Blake's cock-in-your-dreams.

[Spurtacular]

Shillary is a calculating politician.
Not a psychopath.


Those aren't mutually exclusive, dickhead. But you're right that she needs to be calculating to gain power. When you're a psychopath that doesn't understand people, you get in trouble when you go off script. That was her downfall; she didn't stick to the script. Slick Willy warned her.

[Spurminator]

https://twitter.com/andrewklavan/status/1147290348042874880?s=20

I wonder who she is going to vote for.


The fat guy?


Speaking of stuffing one’s face:

https://images-i.jpimedia.uk/imagefetch/c_fill,f_auto,h_450,q_auto:eco,w_900/https://inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/trump-fast-food.jpg


never forget

https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/105679469-1547568108271gettyimages-1082818592.jpg?v=1547568191&w=1400&h=950

McDonald Trump


That one go the way you thought it would, Nate?

[rmt]

Not that I approve, but he must have very good genes to eat like that and have so much energy on such little sleep. I eat well, get lots of sleep and I'm falling apart (diabetes :-)

[koriwhat]

Glorification of obesity is just sickening. Words like "voluptuous", "thick" and "curvy" are the new synonyms for obese, gluttonous and "lucky spandex became en vogue and Murican males are hornier than ever".

Its promoting self-induced disease. It's disgusting and supportive parties hopefully get sued by these fatties once a limb or two is chopped off. Being fat is almost exclusively a choice. Just like being a pedophile, murderer and whatnot. Putting the fork down really is easier than a moronic, pitiful marketing campaign to excuse lack of accountability.

:tu


Shillary is a calculating politician.
Not a psychopath.
Just stop.

she's def a psychopath; no doubt about it.

[Spurminator]

Not that I approve, but he must have very good genes to eat like that and have so much energy on such little sleep. I eat well, get lots of sleep and I'm falling apart (diabetes :-)

Energy? :lol

The stupid fatass sits around and live tweets cable news all day, when he's not golfing.

[koriwhat]

Energy? :lol

The stupid fatass sits around and live tweets cable news all day, when he's not golfing.

what do you do all day mr. 31 thousand posts?

[rmt]

Energy? :lol

The stupid fatass sits around and live tweets cable news all day, when he's not golfing.

Seems like a lot of energy to me. Up early tweeting, flying around the world (seemingly not suffering from jet lag) - I'd be nodding off in front of Kim Jong-Un/Queen Elizabeth.

[Pavlov]

Watching Fox News, tweeting and eating garbage.

He's a fat turd.

[Spurminator]

Up early tweeting

A sign of terrible sleep habits likely brought on, in part, by a shitty diet, not to mention his broken brain.


flying around the world (seemingly not suffering from jet lag)

Your #2 example of energy is sitting on a plane?

I'm confused, are you used to planes that make you pedal or something?

[Pavlov]

Dude couldn't even read a teleprompter after taking a limo ride from the White House to the Lincoln Memorial.

:lol "energy"

[Nathan89]

Democratic congresswoman secretly sending staff into Mexico to coach asylum-seekers

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/democratic-congresswoman-secretly-sending-staff-into-mexico-to-coach-asylum-seekers

[Reck]

Wow so Trumpers are now praising Trump for his mighty ability to stay up all night tweeting. Just when you thought you seen and heard everything...:lol

[pgardn]

Those aren't mutually exclusive, dickhead. But you're right that she needs to be calculating to gain power. When you're a psychopath that doesn't understand people, you get in trouble when you go off script. That was her downfall; she didn't stick to the script. Slick Willy warned her.

She understands people well enough to make it that far in a people game.
And the irony of you calling someone a psychopath.
Something is seriously wrong with you.

[koriwhat]

She understands people well enough to make it that far in a people game.
And the irony of you calling someone a psychopath.
Something is seriously wrong with you.

funny how you have a hard on for a total dyke psychopath.

[pgardn]

funny how you have a hard on for a total dyke psychopath.

I dislike her immensely.

Yeah funny.
That you even think to look at it the way you do.
Another poster insecure with their sexuality perhaps.
Maybe you go on a Blake cockseeking rampage as well.

[Spurtacular]

She understands people well enough to make it that far in a people game.
And the irony of you calling someone a psychopath.
Something is seriously wrong with you.

She understands leveraging power very well. But she's not endearing; far from it. It's why just about everyone took a shit on her after Trump stuck a fork in her.

You should come to terms with Hillary being a psychopath; you might start to understand the world around you and stop being such a tool.

[pgardn]

She understands leveraging power very well. But she's not endearing; far from it. It's why just about everyone took a shit on her after Trump stuck a fork in her.

You should come to terms with Hillary being a psychopath; you might start to understand the world around you.

shes not endearing, and females must be, so she is a psychopath.
Yeah, well thought out.
She is not attractive, has a grating voice, and is not seemingly very nice.
That is not indicative of a psychopathic behavior ya damn fool.

[Spurtacular]

shes not endearing, and females must be, so she is a psychopath.


I've never directly made that case, Less Than Blake. Psychopaths are persons without conscious. If you understood this simple concept, you'd understand her behavior throughout the process and the aftermath much better. But you were too busy being a doey eyed fan bitch to make that read.

[pgardn]

I've never directly made that case, Less Than Blake. Psychopaths are persons without conscious. If you understood this simple concept, you'd understand her behavior throughout the process and the aftermath much better. But you were too busy being a doey eyed fan bitch to make that read.

Then Trump is a psychopath.

I held my nose and voted her. "doey eyed" your mauled brain...
And I would hold it and do it again.
This orange slime is going down.


And can you go ONE fckn post without mentioning Blake?
Sick puppy.

[Spurtacular]

Then Trump is a psychopath.

I held my nose and voted her. "doey eyed" your mauled brain...
And I would hold it and do it again.
This orange slime is going down.



:lol Whataboutism

Did you come to terms on Hillary being a psychopath yet?

[Spurtacular]

And can you go ONE fckn post without mentioning Blake?
Sick puppy.

You're on a blakian level. Your weak mindset is why you can't come to terms.

[pgardn]

:lol Whataboutism

Did you come to terms on Hillary being a psychopath yet?

Shes not very nice = psychopath

And you still got to fall back on her with the orange slime failure.
Can you move forward with that minute brain?

[pgardn]

You're on a blakian level. Your weak mindset is why you can't come to terms.

Are you attracted to women?

[Will Hunting]

Seems like a lot of energy to me. Up early tweeting, flying around the world (seemingly not suffering from jet lag) - I'd be nodding off in front of Kim Jong-Un/Queen Elizabeth.
Yeah believe it or not flying around on Air Force One is a much less exhausting process than flying coach on Delta.

[Will Hunting]

The guy was literally panting during his debate with Hillary after he tried walking around the floor for a few minutes :lol

General restlessness from an unhealthy lifestyle shouldn’t be confused with high energy.

[Ghazi]

The guy was literally panting during his debate with Hillary after he tried walking around the floor for a few minutes :lol

General restlessness from an unhealthy lifestyle shouldn’t be confused with high energy.

You talking Trump? Doesn't that faggot eat McDonald's like everyday? And his only form of exercise is intermittent rounds of Golf.

[pgardn]

Are you attracted to women?

Spurter...

What do you like about women?

[Spurtacular]

Shes not very nice = psychopath

And you still got to fall back on her with the orange slime failure.
Can you move forward with that minute brain?

Less Than Blake continuing to attribute one false definition after another to me cos he can't come to terms. :lmao

[Spurtacular]

Are you attracted to women?


Spurter...

What do you like about women?

Desperate unoriginal narrative from Less Than Blake. Par.