[Woj]Spurs have pulled offer to Marcus Morris and agreed to a deal with free agent Trey Lyles

[spurraider21]

So who gets the backup minutes at the 4? Carroll, Lyles or Samanic?
i think samanic spends most if not all of the season in austin. lyles takes the bertans role. carroll takes the role that cunningham/pondexter tried to fill... the SF who can dabble at PF

[ceperez]

Lyles was complaining about the Jazz' Quin Snyder's 3 hour workouts:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697362/Former-Utah-Jazz-player-Trey-Lyles-rips-on-Utah-Quin-Snyders-practices.html

He's a player that doesn't want to put the work in. Look at his body, he's 4 years in the NBA and he still looks like he's just coming out of college.

The one upside for Lyles is that he's got decent guard skills (dribbling and passing). But his attitude isn't ideal. You want guys who are primed to work their butt out to improve their game.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

This seems like an obvious step back. But I don’t blame PATFO. Morris and the Knicks were weasels. Hard to say Klutch acted honorably. But...the team will still be better next year. I thought Walker might bust but he’s looking great so far. Hopefully this new contract for Lyles isn’t bad.

[r0drig0lac]

Lyles was complaining about the Jazz' Quin Snyder's 3 hour workouts:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697362/Former-Utah-Jazz-player-Trey-Lyles-rips-on-Utah-Quin-Snyders-practices.html

He's a player that doesn't want to put the work in. Look at his body, he's 4 years in the NBA and he still looks like he's just coming out of college.

The one upside for Lyles is that he's got decent guard skills (dribbling and passing). But his attitude isn't ideal. You want guys who are primed to work their butt out to improve their game.

so we signed the untalented Morris paying a higher value than he's worth, which is from the agency that screwed the Spurs, and are there people who are okay with it? what the hell

[hater]

:lmao

Why not just go sign someone walking at the Walmart parking lot :lol

[Killakobe81]

Klutch is the fastest growing agency in the league. It'd be pretty damn dumb to refuse to work with them going forward. That's doubly true when the two sides have to talk this summer to see if a Murray extension is possible.

The Spurs held a grudge against Arn Tellem for nearly two decades after Lamond Murray did something similar and that didn't help the franchise. It fact, there were multiple times it hurt the team that Pop refused to talk to Tellem.

Morris' story is he never meant to agree with the Spurs, that it was a miscommunication with Rich Paul. The Spurs could either roll their eyes while accepting their tall tale or attempt a one-team blackball of what will probably soon become the league's biggest agency.

For the sake of pettiness, the Klutch boycott would have some good drama. But if the Spurs wanted to do what's best for the franchise going forward, accepting them at their word and moving on is the smarter move, IMO.

This. Warring with Klutch is silly. What if they sign guys you truly want even more than Morris?!

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

Lyles was complaining about the Jazz' Quin Snyder's 3 hour workouts:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697362/Former-Utah-Jazz-player-Trey-Lyles-rips-on-Utah-Quin-Snyders-practices.html

He's a player that doesn't want to put the work in. Look at his body, he's 4 years in the NBA and he still looks like he's just coming out of college.

The one upside for Lyles is that he's got decent guard skills (dribbling and passing). But his attitude isn't ideal. You want guys who are primed to work their butt out to improve their game.

In some ways this isn't always a bad thing. Most likely he stays a knucklehead and doesn't change, but if the Spurs can find ways to motivate him (or maybe he matures a bit and loses the entitlement, know it all attitude a lot of young people have) he could really progress as a player. Look at Draymond's improvement just from deciding to take conditioning/diet seriously.

[Marcus Bryant]

Lyles was complaining about the Jazz' Quin Snyder's 3 hour workouts:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697362/Former-Utah-Jazz-player-Trey-Lyles-rips-on-Utah-Quin-Snyders-practices.html

He's a player that doesn't want to put the work in. Look at his body, he's 4 years in the NBA and he still looks like he's just coming out of college.

The one upside for Lyles is that he's got decent guard skills (dribbling and passing). But his attitude isn't ideal. You want guys who are primed to work their butt out to improve their game.

Electroshock therapy. Also, lack of playing time should clear that up.

[DPG21920]

I mean DDR was 3rd team ALL-NBA when the trade went down ...you can honestly say he did pretty damn good for his situation and coming into the new season..I think you gotta see what you have before you trash it. As we know from Murray getting hurt things and direction of your team can change in a blink of an eye.

Honestly not trying to be an apologist but taking “The Beloved Nuggets” to Game 7 (Choked the Series TBH) without your promising PG (ALL NBA DEFENSE) has to give you pause on major changes.


I dunno what you have in mind? But all the teams in the West that made changes other than Utah or Clippers had either Injuries, Drama, or missed the playoffs all together

You can probably predict the top 3 teams but anything after that is a guess. But even the Top 3 teams have injury history, and dramatic BS that you can’t really ignore.

Me saying SA chose DeRozan was not a knock about the trade; its commentary on the mentality. That trade is a win-now trade. I can understand being on your heels with a roster built for Kawhi, then getting blindsided and having a new star that it’s totally different from Kawhi.

But, they had all year to watch and learn and plan, and? They didn’t really do much yet. If they chose DeRozan, whichis fine, the need to lean into that....or move him.

[buujness]

Everything about this sucks, tbh.

It sucks that Morris reneged when he could have been a help on a dark horse run for the team. It sucks that the team traded Bertans for ultimately no reason (which makes other trades more difficult to pull off, too).

With that out of the way, here's an interesting article from the Nuggets' SBNation site that indicates that Lyles actually had a positive impact on the floor...when he wasn't sharing it with Jokic.

https://www.denverstiffs.com/2018/12/27/18156786/the-denver-nuggets-have-a-big-decision-looming-with-trey-lyles (https://www.denverstiffs.com/2018/12/27/18156786/the-denver-nuggets-have-a-big-decision-looming-with-trey-lyles)

If you don't feel like reading it, the long and short is that Lyles is effective when he has plenty of touches and can play an active facilitator role, and ineffective when he's asked to be a cutter or spot-up shooter off the ball. Seeing as the Spurs don't have a guy like Jokic on the roster, and that they don't really play the way Denver does (give it to Jokic and have everybody else move freely and quickly), he may be a decent 3rd big, which is something that the Spurs needed to address (lower priority than a 3/4 combo, but one nonetheless).

He doesn't address the big wing need, and that's the most bitter pill to swallow in all of this. Unfortunately, Morris was really the only guy left that did address that on the FA market, so, when he bitched out, there was nothing to be done.

[DPG21920]

This. Warring with Klutch is silly. What if they sign guys you truly want even more than Morris?!

Is SA really getting anyone “big” anyways? Honest question. Look at the war path Klutch is on with their top tier guys.They are steering them to front offices they can control and in big markets.

What would SA really be losing out on considering they did this to SA with a mid-tier FA?

[buujness]

​
Klutch isn’t the first or last. Quit being bitter dudes and act like you got some nuts in here! He said no so we move on; not sit around bitching about Klutch or Morris. Bertans got punked all playoffs long and everyone outside of White was a damn traffic cone; if no one else will say it I will..... we got better this off season. Add another defensive three and we will be in business.
Hence why everyone is so upset Morris bitched out.

[John B]

In some ways this isn't always a bad thing. Most likely he stays a knucklehead and doesn't change, but if the Spurs can find ways to motivate him (or maybe he matures a bit and loses the entitlement, know it all attitude a lot of young people have) he could really progress as a player. Look at Draymond's improvement just from deciding to take conditioning/diet seriously.
I hope you’re right and I trust the PATFO knows what they’re doing. Because this kid has a lot if unrealized potential and Spurs’ development team is highly regarded but to those willing to put in time.

[Mugen]

Going after Morris was a step towards the right direction. They got f'd but they shouldn't be discouraged.

They've got assets to play with (the Suckers' prodigal son Bryn, Beli's contracts, first rounders, etc.) and they should be doing everything they can to bring in another rotation player that can defend wings.....

If they stand pat now then this FO needs some serious overhauling. They just got cucked by Klutch sports but there are still moves out there to boost their chances in an open West.....

[John B]

Going after Morris was a step towards the right direction. They got f'd but they shouldn't be discouraged.

They've got assets to play with (the Suckers' prodigal son Bryn, Beli's contracts, first rounders, etc.) and they should be doing everything they can to bring in another rotation player that can defend wings.....

If they stand pat now then this FO needs some serious overhauling. They just got cucked by Klutch sports but there are still moves out there to boost their chances in an open West.....
Somebody mentioned Winslow to help facilitate CP3 trade to Miami. I wouldn’t mind losing a 1st round for this guy.

[BacktoBasics]

Do we have numbers on this Lyles contract. I looked back but didn’t see them posted yet.

[Mugen]

They have a ton of young guys already, at some point adding another 1st rounder is overkill.

Beli/Metu/1st rounder isn't bringing back somebody as good as Morris but it'll bring back a useful body to throw at the insane wings in the Western conference...Roberson, Crowder.....

You add Forbes to that package (and eventually Lyles) and you're looking at a 15mil dollar rotation player that could really help them in the 2nd half...Marvin Williams, Kidd-Gilchrist, Ariza, and maybe even Covington.....

There's zero excuse to not try and improve the roster via trade. Even just losing Belinelli so he can't steal mins away from Lonnie would be an improvement. The Spurs can't be afraid of trying to hit for another double or triple because they're scared to lose a guy like Bryn F'n Forbes.

[ceperez]

Do we have numbers on this Lyles contract. I looked back but didn’t see them posted yet.

No numbers, but let's hope it's the minimum!!

[Mugen]

No numbers, but let's hope it's the minimum!!

Not the minimum. It's 2yrs/11mil with partial guarantees on the 2nd year. It's a bad contract tbh unless they can flip it near the deadline.

[ceperez]

Everything about this sucks, tbh.

It sucks that Morris reneged when he could have been a help on a dark horse run for the team. It sucks that the team traded Bertans for ultimately no reason (which makes other trades more difficult to pull off, too).

With that out of the way, here's an interesting article from the Nuggets' SBNation site that indicates that Lyles actually had a positive impact on the floor...when he wasn't sharing it with Jokic.

https://www.denverstiffs.com/2018/12/27/18156786/the-denver-nuggets-have-a-big-decision-looming-with-trey-lyles (https://www.denverstiffs.com/2018/12/27/18156786/the-denver-nuggets-have-a-big-decision-looming-with-trey-lyles)

If you don't feel like reading it, the long and short is that Lyles is effective when he has plenty of touches and can play an active facilitator role, and ineffective when he's asked to be a cutter or spot-up shooter off the ball. Seeing as the Spurs don't have a guy like Jokic on the roster, and that they don't really play the way Denver does (give it to Jokic and have everybody else move freely and quickly), he may be a decent 3rd big, which is something that the Spurs needed to address (lower priority than a 3/4 combo, but one nonetheless).

He doesn't address the big wing need, and that's the most bitter pill to swallow in all of this. Unfortunately, Morris was really the only guy left that did address that on the FA market, so, when he bitched out, there was nothing to be done.

Thanks.

It could work out because ever since we lost Manu and Tony, we lost a lot of facilitators. I mean, we also lost Anderson who could do that job.

Mills is just too small to effectively pass well. We just found out that White could pass last year. DeRozan was in fact our best assist man. That's pathetic considering the number of good passers we had in 2014!

[ceperez]

Not the minimum. It's 2yrs/11mil with partial guarantees on the 2nd year. It's a bad contract tbh unless they can flip it near the deadline.

Is there still money left to sign another guy?

[duncan2150]

Is there still money left to sign another guy?

i think it still something like 3.8 million to sign someone assuming Lyles took 5.5 mo of the MLE.

[Mugen]

Man, can't believe I'm saying this but I'd probably do Forbes/Beli for Fathead. I don't think you'll even have to throw in a 2nd rounder since Memphis is probably eager to move off those guaranteed years...They have Crowder and Cabocolo so they probably have buyer's remorse on KA.

Fathead's dad hates the Spurs so I doubt it happens but he's another wing defender and will be useful once Rudy misses his annual 15 games.

Ugh but I'd do it.

[beirmeistr]

They have a ton of young guys already, at some point adding another 1st rounder is overkill.

Beli/Metu/1st rounder isn't bringing back somebody as good as Morris but it'll bring back a useful body to throw at the insane wings in the Western conference...Roberson, Crowder.....

You add Forbes to that package (and eventually Lyles) and you're looking at a 15mil dollar rotation player that could really help them in the 2nd half...Marvin Williams, Kidd-Gilchrist, Ariza, and maybe even Covington.....

There's zero excuse to not try and improve the roster via trade. Even just losing Belinelli so he can't steal mins away from Lonnie would be an improvement. The Spurs can't be afraid of trying to hit for another double or triple because they're scared to lose a guy like Bryn F'n Forbes.
Well said

[Dex]

I don’t know why people still don’t understand the contract... it’s basically the same deal as the two year. If the spurs need the space they can wave him. It’s like 7 mil, 6.5 mil, and 1.5 mil guaranteed. It’s basically the same deal.

Really gives the Spurs more flexibility, actually. If he does fit the team and they want to keep him around, they've got him for a relatively cheap $7M. If not, the Spurs can either use the third year as a trade chip for a team that wants him or just wants cap relief, or waive him (possibly with a stretch) themselves for a pretty minimal cap hit.

[BacktoBasics]

Not the minimum. It's 2yrs/11mil with partial guarantees on the 2nd year. It's a bad contract tbh unless they can flip it near the deadline.thats not all that bad. Still some MLE left in case of emergency or a decent buyout pops up. Second year partial means they can get out with relative ease or retain him if it works out. There isn’t anything else worth spending that on anyway.

[Dex]

Lyles was complaining about the Jazz' Quin Snyder's 3 hour workouts:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865697362/Former-Utah-Jazz-player-Trey-Lyles-rips-on-Utah-Quin-Snyders-practices.html

He's a player that doesn't want to put the work in. Look at his body, he's 4 years in the NBA and he still looks like he's just coming out of college.

The one upside for Lyles is that he's got decent guard skills (dribbling and passing). But his attitude isn't ideal. You want guys who are primed to work their butt out to improve their game.

You mean Quin "American Psycho" Snyder? Dude constantly looks like he bout to kill a bitch. That would get old for 3 hours a day.

Obviously, Pop is a military man so I don't expect his practices are light or easy either...but hopefully, the Spurs "culture" and the comradery of the team can put Lyles in a better headspace.

If not, his ass will be riding the pine real quick, so maybe that will do the trick to.

[jjktkk]

Me saying SA chose DeRozan was not a knock about the trade; its commentary on the mentality. That trade is a win-now trade. I can understand being on your heels with a roster built for Kawhi, then getting blindsided and having a new star that it’s totally different from Kawhi.

But, they had all year to watch and learn and plan, and? They didn’t really do much yet. If they chose DeRozan, whichis fine, the need to lean into that....or move him.Disagree. Having Morris renege really hurt PATFO's offseason plan. Having Morris, and Carroll shored up the perimeter and overall defense, as well as getting Murray back. Having Gay lead the 2nd unit/6th man role was very intriguing. Other than figuring out the guard rotation with White, Walker, Forbes, etc...,and a 3rd big, there wasn't a lot of other moves PATFO could of made imo.

[Extra Stout]

I don’t see the point in trading any picks to acquire a stopgap player at PF for 2019-20. Even if you apply the Daryl Morey “5% rule”, the Spurs are not realistically contending for anything because they don’t have enough top-end talent. An Aldridge-DeRozan-Gay core is doing well to make the playoffs at all. With a lesser coach, they’d go 38-44.

At most they might have been a dark-horse candidate to make the second round if someone among Murray/White/Walker busted out.

[Mugen]

You mean Quin "American Psycho" Snyder? Dude constantly looks like he bout to kill a bitch. That would get old for 3 hours a day either.

Obviously, Pop is a military man so I don't expect his practices are light or easy either...but hopefully, the Spurs "culture" and the comradery of the team can put Lyles in a better headspace.

If not, his ass will be riding the pine real quick, so maybe that will do the trick to.

That's a bad sign, Dex. Bad sign. I didn't like Lyles before the signing. Finding out about the character issues makes it even worse.

Hopefully being bounced from two good programs is a wake up call tbh.

[Atl Spur]

I’m just patiently waiting to see dudes start flip flopping once the season starts�� our coach is the other coaches idol but you guys can’t see beyond your hate! Our coaching has made players out of the most basic of guys....... There’s not 1 franchise in the NBA that wouldn’t select pop over any coach they currently have. Facts

[Atl Spur]

That respect trickles down to players; get on board or gtfo! Period point blank!!

[HarlemHeat37]

I’m just patiently waiting to see dudes start flip flopping once the season starts�� our coach is the other coaches idol but you guys can’t see beyond your hate! Our coaching has made players out of the most basic of guys....... There’s not 1 franchise in the NBA that wouldn’t select pop over any coach they currently have. Facts

Ya, Uncle Dennis and Rich Paul showed him a lot of respect when he bent over in front of them:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

I don’t see the point in trading any picks to acquire a stopgap player at PF for 2019-20. Even if you apply the Daryl Morey “5% rule”, the Spurs are not realistically contending for anything because they don’t have enough top-end talent. An Aldridge-DeRozan-Gay core is doing well to make the playoffs at all. With a lesser coach, they’d go 38-44.

At most they might have been a dark-horse candidate to make the second round if someone among Murray/White/Walker busted out.

The near term path to improvement from squeaking into the playoffs to deeper runs is at least one of those players developing into a star, at least for the Aldridge/DeRozan Spurs.

[Extra Stout]

Respect, schmespect. Pop is 70 years old. How long would he even still be here? How many NBA ballas would be chomping at the bit to play in a small-to-medium market with like 5% black people, coached by Becky Hammon, where nothing you ever do is going to be good enough for the fan base because of the shadow cast by the Duncan dynasty?

[pad300]

I'm not a big Lyles fan but you can only use the MLE to sign free agents and the pickings were really slim. After Lyles, there's literally not another stretch forward on the market worth more than a minimum deal. Lyles isn't particularly amazing but he's a lot better than Jerebko, Leuer, Cunningham, etc.

NBA free agents, yeah, but I'd take a serious look at euroleague as well. For $5.5M per year, you could be talking about Melli, Shengelia, Singleton...

[Marcus Bryant]

You mean Quin "American Psycho" Snyder? Dude constantly looks like he bout to kill a bitch. That would get old for 3 hours a day either.

Obviously, Pop is a military man so I don't expect his practices are light or easy either...but hopefully, the Spurs "culture" and the comradery of the team can put Lyles in a better headspace.

If not, his ass will be riding the pine real quick, so maybe that will do the trick to.

Half the fanbase is sure Pop being a veteran of a branch of the US Armed Services is ready to go code red on young African-Americans and the other half is certain that he is engaged in the 'soft bigotry of low expectations' with players when he isn't engaged in his wokeness and Trump bashing. smdh

[Dex]

That's a bad sign, Dex. Bad sign. I didn't like Lyles before the signing. Finding out about the character issues makes it even worse.

Hopefully being bounced from two good programs is a wake up call tbh.

Yeah, it's definitely a red flag.

Morris obviously would've come with his own character issues (more than we knew, apparently), but as a player Morris is currently >>> Lyles.

Spurs have helped guys turn their career around before though. Danny Green comes to mind.

[Mr. Body]

The near term path to improvement from squeaking into the playoffs to deeper runs is at least one of those players developing into a star, at least for the Aldridge/DeRozan Spurs.

The team was only really good when White was playing well. This year there should be more pressure off him, only a good thing. My expectation is that White is near star level now, just needs consistency. The addition of Murray and the exceptional potential of Walker and these three could be a handful.

[coachmac87]

Me saying SA chose DeRozan was not a knock about the trade; its commentary on the mentality. That trade is a win-now trade. I can understand being on your heels with a roster built for Kawhi, then getting blindsided and having a new star that it’s totally different from Kawhi.

But, they had all year to watch and learn and plan, and? They didn’t really do much yet. If they chose DeRozan, whichis fine, the need to lean into that....or move him.



So what do you think should be done?

Spurs are having best of both worlds...they’re competing and growing their younger players. Now some here don’t think they’re competing or have a chance to get to the WCF..

Spurs we’re looking to have a great draft, showing promise with Walker, and good FA moves...

Morris situation sucked but so many more things can change to fix that or even improve upon. Spurs just aren’t desperate to make HUGE changes or risks, and they have every right to feel that way.

The NBA is wide open and they got a shot to make noise.

If you don’t mind try to give me an example you wanted to see PATFO do going forward?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Man, can't believe I'm saying this but I'd probably do Forbes/Beli for Fathead. I don't think you'll even have to throw in a 2nd rounder since Memphis is probably eager to move off those guaranteed years...They have Crowder and Cabocolo so they probably have buyer's remorse on KA.

Fathead's dad hates the Spurs so I doubt it happens but he's another wing defender and will be useful once Rudy misses his annual 15 games.

Ugh but I'd do it.

I never want to see Anderson back on the Spurs. Anderson is probably far better than Lyles, but damn, I was so glad to see him gone.

[ceperez]

Yeah, it's definitely a red flag.

Morris obviously would've come with his own character issues (more than we knew, apparently), but as a player Morris is currently >>> Lyles.

Spurs have helped guys turn their career around before though. Danny Green comes to mind.

Danny Green learned very quickly that his UNC credentials could only take him very far.

Lyles earned a ton of money for being a lottery pick. Let's hope he's learned his lesson by being in his 3rd team in 5 seasons.

Unfortunately, laziness is in his bones. His role is simple with the Spurs, play defense or don't play at all. He's never shown he could play defense, so maybe he isn't going to play at all!

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t see the point in trading any picks to acquire a stopgap player at PF for 2019-20. Even if you apply the Daryl Morey “5% rule”, the Spurs are not realistically contending for anything because they don’t have enough top-end talent. An Aldridge-DeRozan-Gay core is doing well to make the playoffs at all. With a lesser coach, they’d go 38-44.

At most they might have been a dark-horse candidate to make the second round if someone among Murray/White/Walker busted out.

Losing Morris was a huge blow. Yes a Aldridge/DeRozan/Gay core is a first round out, but we have White/Murray/Walker and one of them taking a leap would elevate this team significantly. The thing this season is it could as well be that all 3 of them take the next step and that would take this team to other heights. If White and Murray can average 15 points with decent shooting numbers while also playing All-NBA type defense and Walker gives you 10 points off the bench this team is dangerous.



Every team with a back court pairing like Dubs, Rockets, Blazers, Jazz will have a problem with Murray/White locking their guards up. With the west wide open the key component were 2 3-and-D combo forwards to throw at Nephew/PG13 and LeGM/Kuzma. A forward rotation of Morris/Carroll/Gay would be good enough to make life tough for both LA teams. Not only that but we could rest Gay in the regular season and the line up versatility would've been through the roof. LA/Morris/Gay for offense, LA/Morris/Carrol for defense, one of them playing PF with DeRozan at the 3 and White/Murray in the back court or a wing pairing of DeRozan/Walker with one of Murray/White running point.



Spurs would have an answer for any look a team tries to throw at them. Not to mention being 12-13 deep, so if nobody can't hit a shot you can sub in Beli, Mills or Forbes for quick spurts to hit some 3s. I really think that team could beat any team in the NBA as of right now if everything clicks the right way and the young guys make a leap.
So yeah adding a 3-and-D SF is key for this season. Covington would be incredible, Crowder ok. Maybe they can pull it off at the deadline, that would improve our chances big time. Not having that starting SF player on the team makes a big difference

[John B]

Danny Green learned very quickly that his UNC credentials could only take him very far.

Lyles earned a ton of money for being a lottery pick. Let's hope he's learned his lesson by being in his 3rd team in 5 seasons.

Unfortunately, laziness is in his bones. His role is simple with the Spurs, play defense or don't play at all. He's never shown he could play defense, so maybe he isn't going to play at all!
One thing when anybody asked a Spurs player, they enjoyed the Spurs family values, camaraderie, coffee gang. No excuses, but a 19 year old getting shipped in Utah. I hope Lyle has better experience with Spurs, and should realize soon or he would have a very short career, a has been, former lottery pick.

[DPG21920]

Disagree. Having Morris renege really hurt PATFO's offseason plan. Having Morris, and Carroll shored up the perimeter and overall defense, as well as getting Murray back. Having Gay lead the 2nd unit/6th man role was very intriguing. Other than figuring out the guard rotation with White, Walker, Forbes, etc...,and a 3rd big, there wasn't a lot of other moves PATFO could of made imo.

Sure Morris hurt and I had them at an A with Morris. But results matter and while I don’t blame them for Morris, Rudy was on team last year, Murray/White/Lonnie were a part of the team and adding Carroll/Lyles less Bertans is not a whole lot for a team that went all in on a win now trade with DeRozan vs a future oriented package.

I’ve been high on young3 more than most and understand that internal improvement is crucial; however SA needed to lean in really hard and so far results wise it has not been that. Grading on what has happened, it’s not enough and they need to prove they will make bold moves to give the team a chance to win now.

[pad300]

Spurs would have an answer for any look a team tries to throw at them. Not to mention being 12-13 deep, so if nobody can't hit a shot you can sub in Beli, Mills or Forbes for quick spurts to hit some 3s. I really think that team could beat any team in the NBA as of right now if everything clicks the right way and the young guys make a leap.
So yeah adding a 3-and-D SF is key for this season. Covington would be incredible, Crowder ok. Maybe they can pull it off at the deadline, that would improve our chances big time. Not having that starting SF player on the team makes a big difference

I'd slow your roll on Covington (and Crowder). As a point of attack defender against big SF's, well, think back to the Philly-Boston series where Tatum beasted them. That was on Covington. He's much better as a help defender than a 1 on 1 guy (and Lebron and Kwitter are a LOT better than Tatum). Crowder is also a decent defender, but I'm not sure he's better than Carrol. I'm not sure that PATFO really wants him, given he'd put guaranteed money on the board in summer 2021, when they are looking to have a lot of space to play with (LMA and Derozan gone for sure).

[DPG21920]

I don’t see the point in trading any picks to acquire a stopgap player at PF for 2019-20. Even if you apply the Daryl Morey “5% rule”, the Spurs are not realistically contending for anything because they don’t have enough top-end talent. An Aldridge-DeRozan-Gay core is doing well to make the playoffs at all. With a lesser coach, they’d go 38-44.

At most they might have been a dark-horse candidate to make the second round if someone among Murray/White/Walker busted out.


If that is the case moving DeRozan and LMA for future assets should be top priority. If you really believe that, then move forward with a plan.

But I don’t; SA isn’t crazy far off from having a punchers chance and a legit starting level PF would be a big boost. Trading a couple picks is worthwhile with the amount of young talent already on board and you can recoup that if need by by trading DeRozan/LmA if things don’t work.

[DPG21920]

I’m just patiently waiting to see dudes start flip flopping once the season starts�� our coach is the other coaches idol but you guys can’t see beyond your hate! Our coaching has made players out of the most basic of guys....... There’s not 1 franchise in the NBA that wouldn’t select pop over any coach they currently have. Facts


Bruh, you think most of us want SA to fail? No. We are judging this based on certain things. Of course we would be thrilled if Lyles turns out to be a legit starting level + player. It’s just that with what we’ve seen, given the landscape, other than being a massive homer there is nothing LOGICAL to be signing praises right now.

It’s not like this a proven guy with tons of talent and people are knocking it. This person has to prove it.

[Mugen]

I don’t see the point in trading any picks to acquire a stopgap player at PF for 2019-20. Even if you apply the Daryl Morey “5% rule”, the Spurs are not realistically contending for anything because they don’t have enough top-end talent. An Aldridge-DeRozan-Gay core is doing well to make the playoffs at all. With a lesser coach, they’d go 38-44.

At most they might have been a dark-horse candidate to make the second round if someone among Murray/White/Walker busted out.

Then trade Derozan and Aldridge and get even more picks. There's no use to keeping them on the roster if that's what you think.


I never want to see Anderson back on the Spurs. Anderson is probably far better than Lyles, but damn, I was so glad to see him gone.

Me too, chopper. But it's come to that tbh.

[DPG21920]

So what do you think should be done?

Spurs are having best of both worlds...they’re competing and growing their younger players. Now some here don’t think they’re competing or have a chance to get to the WCF..

Spurs we’re looking to have a great draft, showing promise with Walker, and good FA moves...

Morris situation sucked but so many more things can change to fix that or even improve upon. Spurs just aren’t desperate to make HUGE changes or risks, and they have every right to feel that way.

The NBA is wide open and they got a shot to make noise.

If you don’t mind try to give me an example you wanted to see PATFO do going forward?

I think a direction should be picked. If the goal for SA is just make the playoffs with no real threat of more, then my mindset is shaped by the fact that they can do that without DeRozan. They already proved that and have a way better team (sans DeRozan) than they did the year they made it without Kawhi/DeRozan.

But what I want to see is SA getting aggressive with future picks to land a starting caliber, ceiling raising player. Morris was great because it reasonably accomplished that WITHOUT trading any core youth or picks.


But now? That fell apart but they should be very aggressive with picks. I agree that win-building is a great strategy; but there is nothing that should prevent them from taking aggressive but calculated shots to win now with circumstances in the West changing.

I don’t want to trade any of Walker/Murray/Lonnie to improve unless it’s for a surefire young star (Beal). That is very unlikely but should be explored.

That leaves us with SA using Beli/Forbes/Mills and anyone else (including Poeltl whom I really like) plus future firsts IF it nets a “Morris” caliber player. It’s not ideal to give up a first for Morris, but if that opportunity exists with the amount of youth SA already has it’s a fair price to pay to make good on the deal you made with trading Kawhi for DeRozan while still having plenty of flexibility, future picks and young players.

So call ORL and see if someone like Aaron Gordon could be had for salaries + a pick or two. Call CHA and see if Marvin Williams is available.

It doesn’t have to be an all star; just someone quality enough to crack the top 7 rotation and give SA a reasonable enough shot and making more noise than currently constructed.

[Extra Stout]

Then trade Derozan and Aldridge and get even more picks. There's no use to keeping them on the roster if that's what you think.



Me too, chopper. But it's come to that tbh.
1) Sounds great, in theory. But Popovich doesn’t want to spend his last few years coaching placeholders on a 20-62 rebuild project.
2) Filling seats with a rebuilding team would require the millennial-laden SS&E marketing team to do actual wooooork. It’s haaaard to hold onto a fan base when you don’t contend for a championship every single year for a generation. San Antonio isn’t a big, rich metropolis like Oklahoma City, New Orleans, or Memphis. (That’s sarcasm for the Aspies reading along.)

[Atl Spur]

Bruh, you think most of us want SA to fail? No. We are judging this based on certain things. Of course we would be thrilled if Lyles turns out to be a legit starting level + player. It’s just that with what we’ve seen, given the landscape, other than being a massive homer there is nothing LOGICAL to be signing praises right now.

It’s not like this a proven guy with tons of talent and people are knocking it. This person has to prove it.

I’ve heard this same song & dance from mainstream media for years.........Patfo will get the benefit from me until they fall off��. I live in a major market that would be on cloud nine to be in our shoes, it’s all about perspective.

[Mugen]

1) Sounds great, in theory. But Popovich doesn’t want to spend his last few years coaching placeholders on a 20-62 rebuild project.
2) Filling seats with a rebuilding team would require the millennial-laden SS&E marketing team to do actual wooooork. It’s haaaard to hold onto a fan base when you don’t contend for a championship every single year for a generation. San Antonio isn’t a big, rich metropolis like Oklahoma City, New Orleans, or Memphis. (That’s sarcasm for the Aspies reading along.)

So you're saying Pop is fine with going out as a 6th-8th seed even though they've got the pieces/assets to give them a shot at being better. And Spurfan is fine with Pop on that?

If that's the case, I'd be thrilled if the team was relocated to Seattle tbh :lol

[Atl Spur]

1) Sounds great, in theory. But Popovich doesn’t want to spend his last few years coaching placeholders on a 20-62 rebuild project.
2) Filling seats with a rebuilding team would require the millennial-laden SS&E marketing team to do actual wooooork. It’s haaaard to hold onto a fan base when you don’t contend for a championship every single year for a generation. San Antonio isn’t a big, rich metropolis like Oklahoma City, New Orleans, or Memphis. (That’s sarcasm for the Aspies reading along.)


Because draft picks equal championships or contention��. Patfo have the formula but it takes time and some good fortune! Patience

[TimDunkem]

DPG, the Spurs are NOT trading their franchise player. Please stop including Mills in hypothetical trade talk.

[DPG21920]

I’ve heard this same song & dance from mainstream media for years.........Patfo will get the benefit from me until they fall off��. I live in a major market that would be on cloud nine to be in our shoes, it’s all about perspective.

Sure - Ive been touting win-building and singing SA praises 90% of the time. But what does what you said have to do with this specific conversation and scenario?

We all know that with Murray/Lonnie/White added to the mix more next year SA is playoff team. That’s not the baseline of the discussion here. It’s that SA has the real chance to do more without sacrificing any youth or too much of the future.

If that is a premise most agree on then the next argument is that they SHOULD be aggressive in making win-now moves beyond relying on what they already have in house. Losing Bertans while adding Carroll/Lyles barley even qualifies. It’s not that those are bad moves in a bubble, but its no where near aggressive enough.

Again, not faulting them for Morris, but that is reality and now they need to ramp up trade discussions and should not hesitate to use some assets to net a difference maker.

[Extra Stout]

So you're saying Pop is fine with going out as a 6th-8th seed even though they've got the pieces/assets to give them a shot at being better. And Spurfan is fine with Pop on that?

If that's the case, I'd be thrilled if the team was relocated to Seattle tbh :lol
They maybe have the pieces/assets to be better by the mid-2020’s, when Popovich is like 75 years old, retired and sipping wine with old friends. They’d have to take their lumps now, though, and he wants no part of that.

A move is actually not out of the question... I can’t see the Holt kids holding onto the franchise long-term (do either of them really even want to live in SA? The daughter moved back from NY because she “was expected to”) and unless the Board of Governors is leery about the optics of a 5-time champion franchise disappearing, I absolutely could see Seattle interests gobbling them up as the new SuperSonics eventually.

[DPG21920]

1) Sounds great, in theory. But Popovich doesn’t want to spend his last few years coaching placeholders on a 20-62 rebuild project.
2) Filling seats with a rebuilding team would require the millennial-laden SS&E marketing team to do actual wooooork. It’s haaaard to hold onto a fan base when you don’t contend for a championship every single year for a generation. San Antonio isn’t a big, rich metropolis like Oklahoma City, New Orleans, or Memphis. (That’s sarcasm for the Aspies reading along.)

What are you basing #1 off of? SA made the playoffs with no Kawhi and no DeRozan and that was with White not playing, no Poeltl and no Lonnie or Carroll. SA would not be a 20 win team if you trade DeRozan for picks/youth. They would have a worse ceiling but the floor is the same and that ceiling is low now with adding nothing of note to the team.

2) Spurs aren’t contending now so that is already happening. Spurs are winbuilding and they can do that without DeRozan.

[duncan2150]

Without Derozan and Aldrige this team will not be in the playoff hunt, so i understand that they don't want to rebuild now and they can rebuild with the walker murray white.... and still make the playoff by keeping LA and DDR.

Giving pick for a middle type player like Marvin Williams is not a good option because he will not improve the Spurs from their 5-8 range in the West, same with Morris.

Imo you have to do what's possible without gving picks or youth and in two years you will have young guys and some cap.

[Pavlov]

Sure Morris hurt and I had them at an A with Morris. But results matter and while I don’t blame them for Morris, Rudy was on team last year, Murray/White/Lonnie were a part of the team and adding Carroll/Lyles less Bertans is not a whole lot for a team that went all in on a win now trade with DeRozan vs a future oriented package.

I’ve been high on young3 more than most and understand that internal improvement is crucial; however SA needed to lean in really hard and so far results wise it has not been that. Grading on what has happened, it’s not enough and they need to prove they will make bold moves to give the team a chance to win now.:lol the bold move was trading Bertans to open up the full MLE for Morris. It was risky and it failed.

What are you proposing now?

Trading expiring deals?

That's probably going to wait until closer to the deadline. Clamoring for more "bold" moves now seems unrealistic.

[Extra Stout]

What are you basing #1 off of? SA made the playoffs with no Kawhi and no DeRozan and that was with White not playing, no Poeltl and no Lonnie or Carroll. SA would not be a 20 win team if you trade DeRozan for picks/youth. They would have a worse ceiling but the floor is the same and that ceiling is low now with adding nothing of note to the team.

2) Spurs aren’t contending now so that is already happening. Spurs are winbuilding and they can do that without DeRozan.
I’m basing it off Mugen’s suggestion that they trade DeRozan AND Aldridge. Besides, neither of those guys would get a haul in return. If the Spurs wanted picks for them, they’d probably have to absorb albatross contracts. There are no superstar free agents telling suitors, “I’ll sign with you if you can get L-Train.” There are no teams desperate to stay in contention who are saying “We have to get DeRozan before Miami does!”

Remember when Pop was trying to convince Kawhi to stay, and told him the Spurs were talking about acquiring a third all-star? You know who that probably was? DEMAR DEROZAN. Toronto was looking to dump him anyway.

The big difference between the 2017-18 Spurs and the 2018-19 Spurs was 1) defense, and 2) Manu.

[coachmac87]

I think a direction should be picked. If the goal for SA is just make the playoffs with no real threat of more, then my mindset is shaped by the fact that they can do that without DeRozan. They already proved that and have a way better team (sans DeRozan) than they did the year they made it without Kawhi/DeRozan.

But what I want to see is SA getting aggressive with future picks to land a starting caliber, ceiling raising player. Morris was great because it reasonably accomplished that WITHOUT trading any core youth or picks.


But now? That fell apart but they should be very aggressive with picks. I agree that win-building is a great strategy; but there is nothing that should prevent them from taking aggressive but calculated shots to win now with circumstances in the West changing.

I don’t want to trade any of Walker/Murray/Lonnie to improve unless it’s for a surefire young star (Beal). That is very unlikely but should be explored.

That leaves us with SA using Beli/Forbes/Mills and anyone else (including Poeltl whom I really like) plus future firsts IF it nets a “Morris” caliber player. It’s not ideal to give up a first for Morris, but if that opportunity exists with the amount of youth SA already has it’s a fair price to pay to make good on the deal you made with trading Kawhi for DeRozan while still having plenty of flexibility, future picks and young players.

So call ORL and see if someone like Aaron Gordon could be had for salaries + a pick or two. Call CHA and see if Marvin Williams is available.

It doesn’t have to be an all star; just someone quality enough to crack the top 7 rotation and give SA a reasonable enough shot and making more noise than currently constructed.



I still think all that can be done..just maybe not right now or this second. Most fans of this team know we approach things with a cautious approach. Sometimes it doesn’t work out but their track record shows they know what they’re doing tbh.

They probably want to see how much Murray improved, what will DeMar look like in year Two? Is Walker ready for that big step?

The trade pieces are Belli, Patty, Forbes etc. But if they jump the gun and one of the above things I stated doesn’t go well it could hurt. What if they suffer an injury?

As of NOW this team can compete..but maybe they can’t and then you get aggressive once you figure it out. What if other teams suffer injuries or other things? That can change your aggression or other teams go in a different direction.

I mean it’s not the best feeling seeing other teams “make moves” while we sign Carroll and rely on our development of players. But I mean as a Spurs fan isn’t that expected?

[Marcus Bryant]

I’m basing it off Mugen’s suggestion that they trade DeRozan AND Aldridge. Besides, neither of those guys would get a haul in return. If the Spurs wanted picks for them, they’d probably have to absorb albatross contracts. There are no superstar free agents telling suitors, “I’ll sign with you if you can get L-Train.” There are no teams desperate to stay in contention who are saying “We have to get DeRozan before Miami does!”

Remember when Pop was trying to convince Kawhi to stay, and told him the Spurs were talking about acquiring a third all-star? You know who that probably was? DEMAR DEROZAN. Toronto was looking to dump him anyway.

The big difference between the 2017-18 Spurs and the 2018-19 Spurs was 1) defense, and 2) Manu.

:tu Near term best scenario is that one or more of the young guards develops into a borderline star and by a trade or two they get talent in return to have a shot at contending in the next couple of seasons. If it doesn't happen, BFD. Nothing to gripe about every fucking day, but to each their own.

[RC_Drunkford]

But what I want to see is SA getting aggressive with future picks to land a starting caliber, ceiling raising player. Morris was great because it reasonably accomplished that WITHOUT trading any core youth or picks.

But now? That fell apart but they should be very aggressive with picks. I agree that win-building is a great strategy; but there is nothing that should prevent them from taking aggressive but calculated shots to win now with circumstances in the West changing.

I agree with you, I think with some minor tweaks they actually have a chance to make a run. I was happy to see RC being more aggressive and making a trade to bring in Morris. But the problem now is there aren't many players of his caliber out there and most of those wings were free agents a few weeks ago. So I guess Spurs would wait things out and see who's on the trading block as the deadline approaches. That seems to be the right strategy here. They should absolutely make a move by then

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs fans were spoiled over the last 25 seasons up until Duncan's retirement by franchise players in him and DRob who were content to play and live in a small market in the middle of the country and also ultimately buy into Pop's system, in addition to supporting stars such as Parker and Ginobili. Not to mention DRob being willing to hand over the reigns gracefully to Duncan as the team's best player and leader. They were more the exception and not the norm in the NBA during that span. Leonard forcing his way out to ultimately a large market was something new to Spurs fans, but much more common in the league.

[DPG21920]

:lol the bold move was trading Bertans to open up the full MLE for Morris. It was risky and it failed.

What are you proposing now?

Trading expiring deals?

That's probably going to wait until closer to the deadline. Clamoring for more "bold" moves now seems unrealistic.

Trading future 1sts is the bold move.

[DPG21920]

I’m basing it off Mugen’s suggestion that they trade DeRozan AND Aldridge. Besides, neither of those guys would get a haul in return. If the Spurs wanted picks for them, they’d probably have to absorb albatross contracts. There are no superstar free agents telling suitors, “I’ll sign with you if you can get L-Train.” There are no teams desperate to stay in contention who are saying “We have to get DeRozan before Miami does!”

Remember when Pop was trying to convince Kawhi to stay, and told him the Spurs were talking about acquiring a third all-star? You know who that probably was? DEMAR DEROZAN. Toronto was looking to dump him anyway.

The big difference between the 2017-18 Spurs and the 2018-19 Spurs was 1) defense, and 2) Manu.

Manu wasn’t very good tbh that year and with Lonnie/White/Dejounte/Carroll/Poeltl, yeah, this team sans DeRozan is better than that team sans DeRozan.

We just disagree on DeRozan’s value. He’s not netting a star, but there are plenty of teams that would value him positively

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs were willing to deal with the clownshow in order to land Marcus freaking Morris what gives anyone the impression that they aren't feeling out teams to find trade scenarios that improve the team, with everyone on the roster not exempt from being dealt?

[DPG21920]

I still think all that can be done..just maybe not right now or this second. Most fans of this team know we approach things with a cautious approach. Sometimes it doesn’t work out but their track record shows they know what they’re doing tbh.

They probably want to see how much Murray improved, what will DeMar look like in year Two? Is Walker ready for that big step?

The trade pieces are Belli, Patty, Forbes etc. But if they jump the gun and one of the above things I stated doesn’t go well it could hurt. What if they suffer an injury?

As of NOW this team can compete..but maybe they can’t and then you get aggressive once you figure it out. What if other teams suffer injuries or other things? That can change your aggression or other teams go in a different direction.

I mean it’s not the best feeling seeing other teams “make moves” while we sign Carroll and rely on our development of players. But I mean as a Spurs fan isn’t that expected?


The fact that SA moved Bertans for Morris shows they weren’t ok just waiting to see how this team does. The fact that Morris screwed them shouldn’t change that IMO. Now? They have to use other assets they were not hoping to use to get their “Morris”. Is what it is but has to be done.

[DPG21920]

:tu Near term best scenario is that one or more of the young guards develops into a borderline star and by a trade or two they get talent in return to have a shot at contending in the next couple of seasons. If it doesn't happen, BFD. Nothing to gripe about every fucking day, but to each their own.


That young talent and opportunity is here regardless of using pick(s) to get improvements.

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs were willing to deal with the clownshow in order to land Marcus freaking Morris what gives anyone the impression that they aren't feeling out teams to find trade scenarios that improve the team, with everyone on the roster not exempt from being dealt?


Nothing gives the impression; it’s discussing what we think SHOULD be happening (not that it isn’t).

[Pavlov]

Trading future 1sts is the bold move.OF COURSE you want to trade away future picks.

[coachmac87]

The fact that SA moved Bertans for Morris shows they weren’t ok just waiting to see how this team does. The fact that Morris screwed them shouldn’t change that IMO. Now? They have to use other assets they were not hoping to use to get their “Morris”. Is what it is but has to be done.

Well Bertans wasn’t part of the plan....

How much run did he get in the playoffs? Of course you do that.

[DPG21920]

OF COURSE you want to trade away future picks.

Are you against it for a starting caliber player?

[DPG21920]

Well Bertans wasn’t part of the plan....

How much run did he get in the playoffs? Of course you do that.

Wasn’t part of the plan? SA was not trying to dump him. They used Bertans instead of firsts because that is what got Morris. You always use a player before firsts if it’s not a core player.

But that ship has sailed now.

[ceperez]

Spurs should have traded Dejounte to grab Hachimura. The Spurs most talented guards are White and Walker IV. Dejounte is redundancy that the Spurs can trade away.

[Pavlov]

Are you against it for a starting caliber player?Who?

[ceperez]

I agree with you, I think with some minor tweaks they actually have a chance to make a run. I was happy to see RC being more aggressive and making a trade to bring in Morris. But the problem now is there aren't many players of his caliber out there and most of those wings were free agents a few weeks ago. So I guess Spurs would wait things out and see who's on the trading block as the deadline approaches. That seems to be the right strategy here. They should absolutely make a move by then

Spurs can start mining the 21-24 year old "busts". Lyles is one of them, but maybe take a look at Yabusele.

[DPG21920]

Who?

Don’t worry about who; answer my question first then we will get into that. Are you against using future picks to secure a starting caliber player based on how this team is currently constructed and their near future outlook?

[Pavlov]

Don’t worry about who:lmao

[DPG21920]

That’s what I thought. Can’t have an honest conversation; only here to pick little fights to entertain yourself. All good - duly noted :tu

[coachmac87]

Wasn’t part of the plan? SA was not trying to dump him. They used Bertans instead of firsts because that is what got Morris. You always use a player before firsts if it’s not a core player.

But that ship has sailed now.

Right. I just don’t think trading Bertans to sign Morris was a bold move.

And the point I’m making now is a “Bold” move in what you want would include moving Patty or Belli or Forbes or even our good young assets.

Spurs aren’t ready to do so for the reasons I stated in my other post. But that can change as the season goes...

[keepinitwill]

Lyles looks like Austin Daye 2.0. I hope I'm wrong.

[tb5]

Good Riddance!! We don't need Morris...we need players who want to be here and not cause issues...it's just unfortunate that we lose 3-point shooting in Bertans although he wasn't great defensively. Maybe Chip can do something with Lyles or the Spurs can find another diamond in the rough.

[BackHome]

Errors sucks he will be in Pop dog house and will never be seen again.

[Kindergarten Cop]

You know how many times even a little dead money has thrown a wrench in things? Plenty. I am not saying the sky is falling because of it. I am saying I don’t like the practice of SA treating it like some non-issue. It’s just not optimal.

You are talking to me like I dont sit here and explain the salary cap to most people

Just for the sake of argument, how many times do you think having a player on a non-guaranteed contract has helped as a trade piece. We see it all the time across all sports where teams are willing to take players that they normally wouldn’t to make the numbers work because they can simply waive them (which is far more favorable to a buyout) after the trade is completed. I know I’m taking the optimistic stance here - which after these shenanigans is really difficult right now, considering that I’m just as upset as you are at how the whole Marcus Morris thing went down.

[DPG21920]

Right. I just don’t think trading Bertans to sign Morris was a bold move.

And the point I’m making now is a “Bold” move in what you want would include moving Patty or Belli or Forbes or even our good young assets.

Spurs aren’t ready to do so for the reasons I stated in my other post. But that can change as the season goes...

I never said moving the young assets. I really said that unless it’s for a true star, which is unlikely, that the only assets that make sense is using future picks to improve.

They tried Bertans, it didn’t work. Now onto a more aggressive plan using picks. I don’t think losing Bertans was a small deal. Definitely not a huge deal and preferred to losing picks, but I think it shows SA believes they needed a real starting caliber upgrade. That doesn’t go away because Morris did.

[DPG21920]

Just for the sake of argument, how many times do you think having a player on a non-guaranteed contract has helped as a trade piece. We see it all the time across all sports where teams are willing to take players that they normally wouldn’t to make the numbers work because they can simply waive them (which is far more favorable to a buyout) after the trade is completed. I know I’m taking the optimistic stance here - which after these shenanigans is really difficult right now, considering that I’m just as upset as you are at how the whole Marcus Morris thing went down.


Well since the rules have changed regarding partial guarantees and trades, it’s not quite as effective any longer. Have no issues with trade ballast, but the “low guarantee” type deal is not as powerful as it once was.

[Mugen]

So sad that a big chunk of the fanbase thinks moving Forbes, Beli, or a 1st rounder (when they have a ton of young guys to develop already) for a solid rotational piece is a "bold" move.

https://media.tenor.com/images/25a679ff036806575beb02b03b439a9c/tenor.gif

[Kindergarten Cop]

Well since the rules have changed regarding partial guarantees and trades, it’s not quite as effective any longer. Have no issues with trade ballast, but the “low guarantee” type deal is not as powerful as it once was.

Point taken. I wasn’t aware of the rule changes in that regard.

[timvp]

So ... Trey Lyles hasn't actually signed his contract yet. You'd think Klutch would get that contract signed ASAP, tbh.

DPF, your thoughts?

[Mugen]

So ... Trey Lyles hasn't actually signed his contract yet. You'd think Klutch would get that contract signed ASAP, tbh.

DPF, your thoughts?

So if he renegs too, which Klutch client do you think they should get next?

[Mr. Body]

So ... Trey Lyles hasn't actually signed his contract yet. You'd think Klutch would get that contract signed ASAP, tbh.

DPF, your thoughts?

They have to find him to get his physical. He's in hiding because he doesn't want to play basketball.

[timvp]

So if he renegs too, which Klutch client do you think they should get next?

Is Ricky Williams still alive?

[SpursDynasty85]

So sad that a big chunk of the fanbase thinks moving Forbes, Beli, or a 1st rounder (when they have a ton of young guys to develop already) for a solid rotational piece is a "bold" move.

https://media.tenor.com/images/25a679ff036806575beb02b03b439a9c/tenor.gif

Forbes and first rounders are more valuable to Spurs than they are to other teams. I don't think we would get back anyone with better value.

[Mr. Body]

Forbes and first rounders are more valuable to Spurs than they are to other teams. I don't think we would get back anyone with better value.

This is a board where people think a late first rounder can get Justise Winslow.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Is Carroll and gay strong enough to play the Robert Horry role for the whole season?

[Mugen]

Forbes and first rounders are more valuable to Spurs than they are to other teams. I don't think we would get back anyone with better value.

I strongly disagree tbh. Sure, the 1st rounder is probably more valuable to the Spurs than to other teams but they already have a lot of promising young guys they need to keep and develop.

Forbes is an undrafted, undersized SG. Kudos to him for working hard and being an NBA player but he's not untouchable by any means.

[DPG21920]

So ... Trey Lyles hasn't actually signed his contract yet. You'd think Klutch would get that contract signed ASAP, tbh.

DPF, your thoughts?

:lmao You testing me

There is just no way that this could happen again, nope nope nope

[SpursDynasty85]

I strongly disagree tbh. Sure, the 1st rounder is probably more valuable to the Spurs than to other teams but they already have a lot of promising young guys they need to keep and develop.

Forbes is an undrafted, undersized SG. Kudos to him for working hard and being an NBA player but he's not untouchable by any means.

I think Forbes will always be worth keeping (the way the franchise kept Patty - in no way defending his bad contract) because other teams can't see Forbes playing as well for them as he is for the Spurs. My defense of keeping him is that he is a good Spurs system shooter and a good towel waver and a player who will never take for granted the chance and support the Spurs gave him. (Interviews and work ethic says it all) Our young guys are progressing so well I think Forbes pushing everyone despite being such an underdog to take their minutes really pushes EVERYONE. Who would've thought this guy would be our starter and probably was our best player in Game 7 of the playoffs.

Secondly, Draft picks are always valuable even if you have young guys. For a small market team we may have to let Poeltl, White, Murray go if they get over-priced offers (You know at least half of them will once they hit free agency). Plus Spurs are near the top at drafting so, trading away draft picks must be for someone that is a "sure thing".

I'll bet a guy like Bertans (deep bench guy for the Spurs) is much more valuable to other team than Forbes (our possible starter), which is why losing Bertans for nothing was a bitter pill to swallow.

[DPG21920]

Is Ricky Williams still alive?


What are your thoughts on what SA should do. Do you think being aggressive to add a true upgrade is the move or is sitting back the better strategy.

So in this case, asking not about the result, but what you think the aim should be.

[timvp]

So sad that a big chunk of the fanbase thinks moving Forbes, Beli, or a 1st rounder (when they have a ton of young guys to develop already) for a solid rotational piece is a "bold" move.

https://media.tenor.com/images/25a679ff036806575beb02b03b439a9c/tenor.gif

What players do you think are available for that package, tbh?

[DPG21920]

“Sorry, CHA at the last minute offered the full MLE and it’s a great franchise with an opportunity to truly develop”

[coachmac87]

I never said moving the young assets. I really said that unless it’s for a true star, which is unlikely, that the only assets that make sense is using future picks to improve.

They tried Bertans, it didn’t work. Now onto a more aggressive plan using picks. I don’t think losing Bertans was a small deal. Definitely not a huge deal and preferred to losing picks, but I think it shows SA believes they needed a real starting caliber upgrade. That doesn’t go away because Morris did.

I know you didn’t say younger players...I even named the players that they’d have to trade but explained why they’re hesitant.

I suggested the younger players or assets because that’s what it would taken for a real difference maker. So again I dunno what you really want them to do?

Going after Morris wasn’t risky and the contract they agreed to was bargain. Unless there’s a good deal via trade..it’s smart to stay patient and see what you have with your team

[DPG21920]

What players do you think are available for that package, tbh?

Knicks have an overstock of PF and might be looking to collect some picks...

[Mugen]

What players do you think are available for that package, tbh?

Marvin Williams, MKG, Roberson, Crowder would probably just be Forbes & a 2nd, I think Iggy is done but Memphis would jump on that for him if salaries worked, shit even Fathead.....some of these guys probably wouldn't even cost a 1st....

I know what you're gonna say, that Bryn is better than any of those guys and that's where we'll disagree tbh.

You really don't think Bryn, Marco, and a 1st can bring back a good player that puts them in a better spot as currently constructed?

[timvp]

What are your thoughts on what SA should do. Do you think being aggressive to add a true upgrade is the move or is sitting back the better strategy.

So in this case, asking not about the result, but what you think the aim should be.I think they'll continue to be aggressive. The move for Morris was pretty aggressive -- some have argued even recklessly aggressive.

The problem I see right now is teams are going to want multiple firsts and/or the ability to flip future firsts for any halfway decent player after those two OKC trades. That has set a new bar in such trades.

The Spurs will probably have to be patient for something more reasonable to come around after the market settles back down.

Big picture wise, the future of this franchise is mostly tied to the ceilings of White, Walker and Murray. No trade moves the needle anyways near as much as the needle would move if one of those three takes a big jump.


“Sorry, CHA at the last minute offered the full MLE and it’s a great franchise with an opportunity to truly develop”

"I respect San Antonio," Trey Lyles told The Athletic, "but I needed to do what was best for myself and Pop called and told me sometimes practices last longer than two hours."

[DPG21920]

I think they'll continue to be aggressive. The move for Morris was pretty aggressive -- some have argued even recklessly aggressive.

The problem I see right now is teams are going to want multiple firsts and/or the ability to flip future firsts for any halfway decent player after those two OKC trades. That has set a new bar in such trades.

The Spurs will probably have to be patient for something more reasonable to come around after the market settles back down.

Big picture wise, the future of this franchise is mostly tied to the ceilings of White, Walker and Murray. No trade moves the needle anyways near as much as the needle would move if one of those three takes a big jump.



"I respect San Antonio," Trey Lyles told The Athletic, "but I needed to do what was best for myself and Pop called and told me sometimes practices last longer than two hours."

I agree with that; that’s why I was asking about aim vs result here. Spurs likely are trying aggressively so it’s not about that. That part I don’t have true knowledge of. But discussing mindset, etc..is what we do and I’m glad to see you think staying reasonably aggressive is a good plan :tu

But yeah - most of us knew that just adding Dejounte/Lonnie (and emergence of White) was critical independent of anything else. That’s why I am so optimistic that with or without DeRozan I think SA would still be a playoff team.

[timvp]

Marvin Williams, MKG, Roberson, Crowder would probably just be Forbes & a 2nd, I think Iggy is done but Memphis would jump on that for him if salaries worked, shit even Fathead.....some of these guys probably wouldn't even cost a 1st....

The Spurs can't afford to take a step back three-point shooting-wise. I know you seem to be okay with Pop going to the vault and using some 1960s plays from back before three-pointers were a thing but that's not a great idea, IMO. The game is evolving to where you need four shooters on the court, preferably. The spacing was already challenging enough last year -- can't take a step down from that. So, with that in mind, you cross of MKG, Roberson and Kyle Anderson from your list. Salaries aren't close to matching for Iggy -- you need like $8 million more. Crowder and Carroll are basically the same player.

That leaves Marvin Williams. I've never been a huge fan but he'd fit decently well. Couple problems: 1) Salaries aren't close to matching. 2) Lyles at 80% potential is pretty much a Marvin Williams clone. 3) Giving away a first rounder for one year of Marvin Williams is about as meh of a move as you can come up with, IMO. You're not re-signing Williams because he'll be too old, so you'd be giving up an asset for someone who wouldn't move the needle all that much -- or, perhaps, won't even be needed if Lyles pans out.

I'm all for making a trade to improve. I don't see the wisdom, though, it making a move for the sake of making a move.

[DPG21920]

I really wonder if Aaron Gordon might shake loose

[John B]

Knicks have an overstock of PF and might be looking to collect some picks...
Maybe we can lure them to send Morris for a 1st round?? :dizzy

[ceperez]

The Spurs can't afford to take a step back three-point shooting-wise. I know you seem to be okay with Pop going to the vault and using some 1960s plays from back before three-pointers were a thing but that's not a great idea, IMO. The game is evolving to where you need four shooters on the court, preferably. The spacing was already challenging enough last year -- can't take a step down from that. So, with that in mind, you cross of MKG, Roberson and Kyle Anderson from your list. Salaries aren't close to matching for Iggy -- you need like $8 million more. Crowder and Carroll are basically the same player.

That leaves Marvin Williams. I've never been a huge fan but he'd fit decently well. Couple problems: 1) Salaries aren't close to matching. 2) Lyles at 80% potential is pretty much a Marvin Williams clone. 3) Giving away a first rounder for one year of Marvin Williams is about as meh of a move as you can come up with, IMO. You're not re-signing Williams because he'll be too old, so you'd be giving up an asset for someone who wouldn't move the needle all that much -- or, perhaps, won't even be needed if Lyles pans out.

I'm all for making a trade to improve. I don't see the wisdom, though, it making a move for the sake of making a move.

You are right, Lyles is 80% potential of whatever is left out there! He isn't that bad as compared to Marcus Morris. He's an inch taller and with a lot more wingspan. The Spurs system tends to maximize utility of a player, so being slightly not as good gets masked over.

[Mugen]

The Spurs can't afford to take a step back three-point shooting-wise. I know you seem to be okay with Pop going to the vault and using some 1960s plays from back before three-pointers were a thing but that's not a great idea, IMO. The game is evolving to where you need four shooters on the court, preferably. The spacing was already challenging enough last year -- can't take a step down from that. So, with that in mind, you cross of MKG, Roberson and Kyle Anderson from your list. Salaries aren't close to matching for Iggy -- you need like $8 million more. Crowder and Carroll are basically the same player.

That leaves Marvin Williams. I've never been a huge fan but he'd fit decently well. Couple problems: 1) Salaries aren't close to matching. 2) Lyles at 80% potential is pretty much a Marvin Williams clone. 3) Giving away a first rounder for one year of Marvin Williams is about as meh of a move as you can come up with, IMO. You're not re-signing Williams because he'll be too old, so you'd be giving up an asset for someone who wouldn't move the needle all that much -- or, perhaps, won't even be needed if Lyles pans out.

I'm all for making a trade to improve. I don't see the wisdom, though, it making a move for the sake of making a move.

You seem to be hinting that Forbes is in line for 25-30mpg this season which means less minutes for the younger, better guys. Yeah, I'm not okay with that. Like at all. :lol

I honestly don't think Williams would cost a first rounder. I think Charlotte would do it just for a closer look at Forbes and to free up minutes for Washington.

Lyles, Forbes, Beli and Metu gets you there. You just have to wait til mid-December. I'd do that in a heartbeat.

And honestly those guys were the floor. If you're two months into the season and Minny is looking at another lottery year, why not go to them with Forbes, Beli, Metu and a 1st for Covington...

Nuggets just got a good young player in Jerami Grant for their 2020 first. The Spurs 2020 is likely to be higher, it can bring back some good value tbh and I don't think the fear of losing Bryn/Beli should hold you back from doing so.

[Mugen]

The Spurs can't afford to take a step back three-point shooting-wise. I know you seem to be okay with Pop going to the vault and using some 1960s plays from back before three-pointers were a thing but that's not a great idea, IMO. The game is evolving to where you need four shooters on the court, preferably. The spacing was already challenging enough last year -- can't take a step down from that. So, with that in mind, you cross of MKG, Roberson and Kyle Anderson from your list. Salaries aren't close to matching for Iggy -- you need like $8 million more. Crowder and Carroll are basically the same player.

That leaves Marvin Williams. I've never been a huge fan but he'd fit decently well. Couple problems: 1) Salaries aren't close to matching. 2) Lyles at 80% potential is pretty much a Marvin Williams clone. 3) Giving away a first rounder for one year of Marvin Williams is about as meh of a move as you can come up with, IMO. You're not re-signing Williams because he'll be too old, so you'd be giving up an asset for someone who wouldn't move the needle all that much -- or, perhaps, won't even be needed if Lyles pans out.

I'm all for making a trade to improve. I don't see the wisdom, though, it making a move for the sake of making a move.

While we're on the subject, if the roster doesn't change from now until opening night, how do you see the minutes be allocated to start? Would be a good read IMO...

[Pavlov]

FORBES SUCKS! I DON'T WANT FORBES!




EVERY OTHER TEAM WANTS FORBES!





WHO SUCKS!





DO NOT WANT!

[ceperez]

It didn't occur to me why Trey Lyles was available. Turns out, Nuggets signed Jerami Grant by trading a future first round pick!

[timvp]

You seem to be hinting that Forbes is in line for 25-30mpg this season which means less minutes for the younger, better guys. Yeah, I'm not okay with that. Like at all. :lolDon't believe I've talked about Forbes playing anywhere near that amount of minutes.


I honestly don't think Williams would cost a first rounder. I think Charlotte would do it just for a closer look at Forbes and to free up minutes for Washington. Unplayable for the Spurs. Enticing for the Hornets. Alright.


Lyles, Forbes, Beli and Metu gets you there. You just have to wait til mid-December. I'd do that in a heartbeat. I could see that as a possibility at that point depending on how the chips fall. We'll have to revisit closer to that point, though.


And honestly those guys were the floor. If you're two months into the season and Minny is looking at another lottery year, why not go to them with Forbes, Beli, Metu and a 1st for Covington...Pipe dream, IMO.


Nuggets just got a good young player in Jerami Grant for their 2020 first. The Spurs 2020 is likely to be higher, it can bring back some good value tbh and I don't think the fear of losing Bryn/Beli should hold you back from doing so.The pick was just gravy in that trade. OKC mostly did it to escape paying what would have been a huge luxury tax bill. That was one of the last places where salary could have been dumped.

[DJR210]

Knicks have an overstock of PF and might be looking to collect some picks...

We should trade for that Morris guy..

[Marcus Bryant]

So, because the Spurs can't make one-sided trades all the time, the front office which has built 5 title teams and made the playoffs for the last 20+ seasons straight doesn't know what it's doing. Or is "too nice", "soft", not "street" enough and so on. Some of you have such dumbass takes I don't know where to begin.

[timvp]

While we're on the subject, if the roster doesn't change from now until opening night, how do you see the minutes be allocated to start? Would be a good read IMO...

Haven't thought about it since The Renege. Good idea for a subject to explore, though. I'll give it a few days in case there's something to the Belinelli rumors, tbh.

[spurs10]

I think they'll continue to be aggressive. The move for Morris was pretty aggressive -- some have argued even recklessly aggressive.

The problem I see right now is teams are going to want multiple firsts and/or the ability to flip future firsts for any halfway decent player after those two OKC trades. That has set a new bar in such trades.

The Spurs will probably have to be patient for something more reasonable to come around after the market settles back down.

Big picture wise, the future of this franchise is mostly tied to the ceilings of White, Walker and Murray. No trade moves the needle anyways near as much as the needle would move if one of those three takes a big jump.



"I respect San Antonio," Trey Lyles told The Athletic, "but I needed to do what was best for myself and Pop called and told me sometimes practices last longer than two hours." Checking in for news and almost believed the MLE was back in play. I guess the team thought that was about as as good as they were going to do in free agency. So now I hope you're right and they continue to be aggressive in finding that player that can move the needle in terms of tough defense on the perimeter. I feel good with Gay or Carroll starting at the 4 to start the season. Trying not to be overly pessimistic about the Morris debacle, but hope there is still something coming.

[Mugen]

Haven't thought about it since The Renege. Good idea for a subject to explore, though. I'll give it a few days in case there's something to the Belinelli rumors, tbh.

:tu

Back to Forbes, really not sure why it's so hard to grasp...he has value, I've said that many times. He's a good shooter on a cheap deal.

The Hornets have a shit guard rotation, the Spurs have a really good one. He shouldn't play above Lonnie, DJ, and White tbh but on a bottom feeder team that has Terry Rozier and Malik Monk as their best backcourt players, he'd be a player that makes sense for Charlotte.

[TD 21]

Other than being a decent 3-point shooter, Lyles is basically an outdated archetype at PF. He can't credibly play C or defend big wings and isn't a knockdown shooter, so he doesn't really check any box.

He was probably the best pure talent remaining and is still youngish, but to bend over to the same agency that just screwed you, for such an uninspiring pickup, is not a good look to say the least.

The only real positive is his salary because it opens up trade possibilities. Barring significant improvement from him and regression from Marvin Williams, sometime between December 15th and the trade deadline, Belinelli, Lyles and Metu for Williams, makes a lot of sense.

Covington is obviously worthwhile if he's recovered from his injury, but he's neither a good enough shooter to replace Forbes as the lone credible shooter in the starting lineup nor big/strong enough to function as a full time small ball PF.

[Truth4sale$]

If Trey Lyles takes to coaching and commits himself as a professional maybe this signing will be a blessing. He is likely the 14th or 15th man. Switching off and on with Luca Saminic. He might have realized that nobody wanted him, this could be his last shot in the NBA. To be honest, the Spurs have signed questionable guys and they have seemed to play themselves well enough on the Spurs into big contracts elsewhere ...Jamychael Green.

[Realdeal1]

Trey lyles signing is so underwhelming ... can’t get excited for this guy ... like another poster said .. lyles looks soft and lazy

[SAGirl]

Was Lyles hurt last season? Just trying to find an explanation for that dip in shooting. Remember Danny and the yips? A dip that big can be bad news.

-----
OTOH possible buy low possibility for the Spurs if the guy regains the shooting touch. If only he had better work ethic I'd be more hopeful. His complaints about workouts aren't calming to know.

[kobyz]

hope we sign him only to use him as a salary match down the road in a future trade, Mike Malone might be the best coach in the league that know how to put his players in the best place to succeed, and if he didn't find any use in Lyles that telling a lot!

[slick'81]

Was Lyles hurt last season? Just trying to find an explanation for that dip in shooting. Remember Danny and the yips? A dip that big can be bad news.

-----
OTOH possible buy low possibility for the Spurs if the guy regains the shooting touch. If only he had better work ethic I'd be more hopeful. His complaints about workouts aren't calming to know.


He was buried on the bench in denver and his numbers dipped

[exstatic]

Lyles best attribute will be to hopefully shoot well enough to eat a lot of regular season minutes this year to keep Rudy fresh. If he can do that, the signing will be a success.

[Spurs Brazil]

SPURS SIGN TREY LYLES
Matt Schad, Sr. Digital Developer
Posted: Jul 12, 2019
FACEBOOK
TWITTER
SAN ANTONIO (July 12, 2019) – The San Antonio Spurs today announced that they have signed forward Trey Lyles. Per team policy, terms of the contract were not announced.



Lyles, 6-10/235, appeared in 64 games for the Denver Nuggets last season averaging 8.5 points, 3.8 rebounds and 1.4 assists in 17.5 minutes. In two seasons with the Nuggets, he averaged 9.3 points, 4.3 rebounds and 1.3 assists in 18.3 minutes. Appearing in 288 total contests, Lyles holds career averages of 7.6 points, 3.9 rebounds and 1.1 assists in 17.5 minutes.



The former University of Kentucky Wildcat was a first round pick in the 2015 NBA Draft (12th overall) by the Utah Jazz. Lyles spent his first two seasons with the Jazz before being sent to Denver on draft night in 2017. While with Utah, Lyles was selected to the 2016 and 2017 BBVA Rising Stars Challenge during All-Star Weekend.



Lyles will wear No. 41 for the Spurs.

https://www.nba.com/spurs/spurs-sign-trey-lyles

[timvp]

Spurs didn't suffer The Renege, Volume 2, at least.

[SupremeGuy]

So, because the Spurs can't make one-sided trades all the time, the front office which has built 5 title teams and made the playoffs for the last 20+ seasons straight doesn't know what it's doing. Or is "too nice", "soft", not "street" enough and so on. Some of you have such dumbass takes I don't know where to begin.Tim-Fucking-Duncan isn't here anymore. PATFO is nothing now. Fucking Marcus Morris flipped off PATFO. Our only goddamn hope for any type of success is White. Murray hasn't played in a year. Walker is probably the dumbest player we've ever had. It is what it is.

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

It's kinda sad that people think this teams whole season laid in Morris hands. Yikes. I think they will be just fine

[Mugen]

Spurs didn't suffer The Renege, Volume 2, at least.

https://i.imgflip.com/122vae.jpg

[Chinook]

The Lyles deal is such shit it's almost weird. Why guarantee any money next year? Just give him whatever you were going to guarantee him as increased salary this year. This constant cycle of having dead money on the payroll is ridiculous. I don't see him as a two-year rotation player; I see him as a guy who should be competing for his roster spot. This deal guarantees he'll get at least a Cunningham role. Ideally, he plays well enough to earn that (and more), but he might not even be as good as Dante. Maybe the Spurs could have put out feelers to Williams' agent to see if the could negotiate a buyout in exchange for the MLE for a year. That would likely have been preferable to this.

Still, you gotta root for him to succeed. The team would be so much better with a 6-10 PF than a smaller one. In the very least, he increased the talent level of the bench and can provide good competition for Samanic for the next two years. There's zero pressure for Luka to develop quickly. It also puts Metu as the most likely player to be traded, with Beli as a moderate second. Those two combine for enough to take back a high-priced player, so it's worth looking at going forward.

[Spurzforever]

Is the 2nd year guaranteed?

[slick'81]

Is the 2nd year guaranteed?


Partial but i havent seen how much

[spurs10]

The Lyles deal is such shit it's almost weird. Why guarantee any money next year? Just give him whatever you were going to guarantee him as increased salary this year. This constant cycle of having dead money on the payroll is ridiculous. I don't see him as a two-year rotation player; I see him as a guy who should be competing for his roster spot. This deal guarantees he'll get at least a Cunningham role. Ideally, he plays well enough to earn that (and more), but he might not even be as good as Dante. Maybe the Spurs could have put out feelers to Williams' agent to see if the could negotiate a buyout in exchange for the MLE for a year. That would likely have been preferable to this.

Still, you gotta root for him to succeed. The team would be so much better with a 6-10 PF than a smaller one. In the very least, he increased the talent level of the bench and can provide good competition for Samanic for the next two years. There's zero pressure for Luka to develop quickly. It also puts Metu as the most likely player to be traded, with Beli as a moderate second. Those two combine for enough to take back a high-priced player, so it's worth looking at going forward. Maybe the fact that he is a 6'10 PF is why they are giving him a shot. From everything I've read here it seems like the fact that he isn't a perimeter defender is the main complaint about him. He's a PF and not a combo 3/4. If we need more at the SF spot than Gay and Carroll it's time for a trade and it isn't really about Lyles.

[Spurzforever]

Partial but i havent seen how much
Ok thanks for clarifying

[RC_Drunkford]

Maybe the fact that he is a 6'10 PF is why they are giving him a shot. From everything I've read here it seems like the fact that he isn't a perimeter defender is the main complaint about him. He's a PF and not a combo 3/4. If we need more at the SF spot than Gay and Carroll it's time for a trade and it isn't really about Lyles.

we need a 3rd SF that can play defense and hit 3s. But I think there should be some available close to the deadline. You got a better chance to land one then rather than now, because most of them were FAs

[Chinook]

Maybe the fact that he is a 6'10 PF is why they are giving him a shot. From everything I've read here it seems like the fact that he isn't a perimeter defender is the main complaint about him. He's a PF and not a combo 3/4. If we need more at the SF spot than Gay and Carroll it's time for a trade and it isn't really about Lyles.

I really, really can't disagree with this idea that Gay and Carroll are SFs strongly enough. They are PFs. They both play the same position as Lyles. Maybe off the bench, one of them will play the three, but that likely isn't the goal. I'm expecting the rotation to look like this.

Murray, Mills
White, Forbes
DeRozan, Walker
Carroll, Gay
Aldridge, Poeltl

While we may all want Mills to not have a spot, he's going to get one unless the Spurs acquire a really good forward. Someone like Stan Johnson wasn't going to change that. From what I see, the team has adequate forward depth after this move. Now it's just seeing if they can upgrade the rotation with Beli, Metu and possibly a pick. Ideally, they move Mills for a forward making similar money (James Johnson from Miami, for example) and get the flexibility they need. Then they break up Murray and White and get a more ideal rotation:

Murray (some I won't get predictable backlash), White
Forbes, Walker
DeRozan, Carroll
Johnson, Gay
Aldridge, Poeltl

If Johnson can get back to his previous level of play, that's a dangerous team. He makes way too much, but at least he can't renege.

[C-Dub]

I believe Lyles still has a chance to resurrect his career with a team like the Spurs. Gary Neal played a key role when he was with Spurs. J. Simms played his role with the Spurs also and I believe the same for Lyles. With Lyles on the team like previous poster said he will at least be able to give Gay some rest. I believe he will have an opportunity to start some games and with him instead of Morris means it expedites DJM and White growth which will be a good thing. Morris would of been more of a focal point on offense and take away some of there opportunities and don't get me wrong I believe if everything would of clicked with Morris starting at 4 we would of had a slight chance at making to the WCF. If Lyles learns the system and his role which I believe will be to hit the corner or elbow 3 and hold his own on defense than I believe we would also have a punchers chance to reach the WCF especially if LW4 makes the jump to about 18 minutes a game with hot sparks and streaks. Forbes is not better than DJM, White or LW4 but he will start because we will need White to lead that bench unit and Forbes know the system way more than LW4 and he can hit the 3 from anywhere on the floor. It's a good chance that if LW4 plays well that he will be averaging about the same amount of minutes as Forbes by the end of the regular season. Don't forget that we have DDR that will be in his 2nd year and more acclimated as well. We should be okay this upcoming season. Weak spots are going to be Mr. Softridge and Rudy Gay when it really matters. If Gay would stop acting like he's still in his prime and trying to tomahawk slam every layup at 50% completion rate and not understanding that when he's dribbling up the court to start a fast break that the other team is still on the court running behind you to still the ball or not boxing out for a rebound. Gay's BBIQ is one of the lowest on the team. Poeltl and White playing together off the bench will be a big plus because he will make Poetl a better player. If Carroll can guard the better SF's at decent rate we will be better than a lot of outsiders and even some homers may think.

[spurs10]

we need a 3rd SF that can play defense and hit 3s. But I think there should be some available close to the deadline. You got a better chance to land one then rather than now, because most of them were FAs Yep I'm hoping we can make a move before deadline unless there is something brewing with a trade.


I really, really can't disagree with this idea that Gay and Carroll are SFs strongly enough. They are PFs. They both play the same position as Lyles. Maybe off the bench, one of them will play the three, but that likely isn't the goal. I'm expecting the rotation to look like this.

Murray, Mills
White, Forbes
DeRozan, Walker
Carroll, Gay
Aldridge, Poeltl

While we may all want Mills to not have a spot, he's going to get one unless the Spurs acquire a really good forward. Someone like Stan Johnson wasn't going to change that. From what I see, the team has adequate forward depth after this move. Now it's just seeing if they can upgrade the rotation with Beli, Metu and possibly a pick. Ideally, they move Mills for a forward making similar money (James Johnson from Miami, for example) and get the flexibility they need. Then they break up Murray and White and get a more ideal rotation:

Murray (some I won't get predictable backlash), White
Forbes, Walker
DeRozan, Carroll
Johnson, Gay
Aldridge, Poeltl

If Johnson can get back to his previous level of play, that's a dangerous team. He makes way too much, but at least he can't renege. Great post and you're right that Gay and Carroll are PF's, in fact one of those will likely start. I was referring more to defending the perimeter. I actually think Morris was the same, and while he was a more tenacious defender, he was a PF. DDR will be our starting SF but I guess the question is who guards the big wings. So back to square one and we'll see who we can get to fill those shoes.

[mo7888]

Is the 2nd year guaranteed?

The only thing I've seen on it was Jabari tweeted he heard there was a partial guarantee on the 2nd year. Then two hours later when asked if the 2nd was guaranteed he said 'No'.... I haven't seen any other reporting on it.

[jjktkk]

So, because the Spurs can't make one-sided trades all the time, the front office which has built 5 title teams and made the playoffs for the last 20+ seasons straight doesn't know what it's doing. Or is "too nice", "soft", not "street" enough and so on. Some of you have such dumbass takes I don't know where to begin.

I could provide a list if you like

[ceperez]

Despite signing a $15m/yr contract, I don't think Gay can play a lot of minutes during the regular season.

So I expect the following regular season lineup:

Murray, White
Forbes, Walker
DeRozan, Carroll
Aldridge, Gay
Poetl, Lyles

Which is decent. Now consider that Mills, Belinelli, Metu the bench and Samanic & Johnson G-league duties

Honestly, Spurs still have a lot of talent. But White,Walker,Murray need to elevate their game. Everyone else, we know what they are capable of.

[Spurzforever]

The only thing I've seen on it was Jabari tweeted he heard there was a partial guarantee on the 2nd year. Then two hours later when asked if the 2nd was guaranteed he said 'No'.... I haven't seen any other reporting on it.
Yeah I read the same tweet so wasn’t sure which was accurate.

[Fusternino]

You all really giving up on Keldon Johnson so soon? He is basically our only true 2/3 defender a la Green right now. Might not be much choice but to play him.

[Blackhaus]

You all really giving up on Keldon Johnson so soon? He is basically our only true 2/3 defender a la Green right now. Might not be much choice but to play him.

whos giving up on him? But to think he’s going to crack the rotation this year is quite a stretch. I see a lot of g league for him with maybe a couple spot minutes during the reg season if the mad scientist decides to tank some games and rest half our roster.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Can we just keep this thread through next season and bitch every time he does something good, but laugh every time something bad happens? The Kawhi thead helped, but I find I still have a lot of leftover hate.

[spurraider21]

The Lyles deal is such shit it's almost weird. Why guarantee any money next year? Just give him whatever you were going to guarantee him as increased salary this year. This constant cycle of having dead money on the payroll is ridiculous. I don't see him as a two-year rotation player; I see him as a guy who should be competing for his roster spot. This deal guarantees he'll get at least a Cunningham role. Ideally, he plays well enough to earn that (and more), but he might not even be as good as Dante. Maybe the Spurs could have put out feelers to Williams' agent to see if the could negotiate a buyout in exchange for the MLE for a year. That would likely have been preferable to this.

Still, you gotta root for him to succeed. The team would be so much better with a 6-10 PF than a smaller one. In the very least, he increased the talent level of the bench and can provide good competition for Samanic for the next two years. There's zero pressure for Luka to develop quickly. It also puts Metu as the most likely player to be traded, with Beli as a moderate second. Those two combine for enough to take back a high-priced player, so it's worth looking at going forward.
disagree. as long as the guy is willing to hoist 3's, he's better than dante. dante gave us nothing except theoretical matchup based defense because of his measurables

[buujness]

He's a flier, and pretty much nothing more. As he can't play the 3, he's not just competing against the other 4s on the roster, but he also has to prove that playing him is worth playing 2 bigs, which squeezes minutes away from your young perimeter players. Given that, I find it highly unlikely that Lyles has any sort of playoff rule with the team.

He can perhaps be a help at soaking up regular season minutes without automatically conceding a loss, so that's helpful in a way. Not remotely exciting, though.

[XDT76]

I am not saying lyles is better than Morris, but I think this could be abit more balance for the team. Lyles could spell some C when LMA or JP needs a rest. We have plenty of "wings" player on the roster anyway.

[buujness]

I am not saying lyles is better than Morris, but I think this could be abit more balance for the team. Lyles could spell some C when LMA or JP needs a rest. We have plenty of "wings" player on the roster anyway.
The team needed a 3rd big, it's true. It's a bit role on the team, but an important one, and Lyles honestly will probably be helpful in that role.

But the team needs another 3/4 combo forward who can shoot, rebound and play tough defense in order to credibly compete, IMO, There are just too many teams with too many really good offensive wings in order to get by with just one. Otherwise, you'd be forced to put guys like White and Murray on them. And while those guys are defensive monsters, they don't really have the size you want to reliably defend Paul George, Kawhi, LeBron, Klay Thompson (when he's back), Ben Simmons, etc.

[Fusternino]

Can he or Metu legit play the 5, though?

[Dverde]

Can he or Metu legit play the 5, though?

Metu can’t play at all. Lyles is a typical skinny center in today’s game. He’s really competing with Eubanks for minutes.

[C-Dub]

Carroll will be playing a lot of the backup 3 behind DDR. A lot of fans here are thinking he will start at the 4 but he is way to skinny to constantly start at 4. I can see him playing spot 4 minutes at times. Lyles will get more starts at the 4 than Carroll will. White will be 6th man this year, LW4 will be 6th man the following year and DJM, White and LW4 will all be starting together in a few years with Quindary being the 6th man.

[Gagnrath]

1.8 million. That’s it. People bitching about that are clueless.

Eric thing is to most people $1,800,000 is pretty significant. Even to NBA front offices you definitely don't want to just throw that away.

[gerald]

Metu can’t play at all. Lyles is a typical skinny center in today’s game. He’s really competing with Eubanks for minutes.

saw his clips... he is more of an unmotivated yet more physical and matured samanic... think boris diaw

[Atl Spur]

Eric thing is to most people $1,800,000 is pretty significant. Even to NBA front offices you definitely don't want to just throw that away.

You’re joking......Right??

[Seventyniner]

If Johnson can get back to his previous level of play, that's a dangerous team. He makes way too much, but at least he can't renege.

Not a big deal, his contract is like Rudy's: it doesn't matter how much he makes this year and next cause his contract expires in 2021. Unless we start getting into luxury tax concerns with next summer's MLE.

How much can the Spurs take back in salary by only trading Beli + Metu?

[JuneJive]

He can be useful as a trade chip for balancing salaries.

He was used for that purpose already.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://twitter.com/TreyLyles/status/1150123024722669575

[TD 21]

He's a flier, and pretty much nothing more. As he can't play the 3, he's not just competing against the other 4s on the roster, but he also has to prove that playing him is worth playing 2 bigs, which squeezes minutes away from your young perimeter players. Given that, I find it highly unlikely that Lyles has any sort of playoff rule with the team.

He can perhaps be a help at soaking up regular season minutes without automatically conceding a loss, so that's helpful in a way. Not remotely exciting, though.

:tu

Expect him to compete with Walker and if retained, Belinelli for 10th man, but really he's more so Gay and Carroll insurance. Neither can stay healthy for long and even in the unlikely event they do, they could still use the occasional game off.




Carroll will be playing a lot of the backup 3 behind DDR. A lot of fans here are thinking he will start at the 4 but he is way to skinny to constantly start at 4. I can see him playing spot 4 minutes at times. Lyles will get more starts at the 4 than Carroll will. White will be 6th man this year, LW4 will be 6th man the following year and DJM, White and LW4 will all be starting together in a few years with Quindary being the 6th man.

Nah, Carroll will mostly play PF due to the roster construction. Unlike Gay, who can't credibly play SF anymore, he's still a tweener. He's obviously better than what they had, but people are in for a rude awakening if they think he can physically handle the likes of James, Scumbag, Antetokounmpo, etc. He's even more gimpy than Gay and is only 6'7'' 215 with a 6'10'' wingspan.

I agree that he shouldn't be a regular starter at PF. I know they'd prefer not to have to start Gay, but the reality is he's the best option for now. Barring his falling off a cliff, they should be looking to trade for Marvin Williams (Belinelli, Lyles, Metu should get it done) starting on December 15th.

[Duncan87]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1011635342900912128/hJ72fFsO_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN)Stefan Bondy (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN) @SBondyNYDN (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN)
about 11 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1150173393754501120)
According to a source, Marcus Morris and Nerlens Noel have fired agent Rich Paul.

[Duncan87]

Wonder what happen there

[Degoat]

Wow that’s interesting lol I wonder if the knicks backed out of their deal with Morris

[ironman2886]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1011635342900912128/hJ72fFsO_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN)Stefan Bondy (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN) @SBondyNYDN (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN)
about 11 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1150173393754501120)
According to a source, Marcus Morris and Nerlens Noel have fired agent Rich Paul.
That’s great if true. I feel much less angry at Marcus Morris.

[Mr. Body]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1011635342900912128/hJ72fFsO_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN)Stefan Bondy (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN) @SBondyNYDN (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN)
about 11 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1150173393754501120)
According to a source, Marcus Morris and Nerlens Noel have fired agent Rich Paul.

Lol wat

[Mr. Body]

Maybe Rich Paul really was trying to steer players to the Lakers and was trying to get Morris to bite on a Knicks contract so he could be traded. The Noel saga I wasn't paying attention to -- was it his fault or his agent's?

[ironman2886]

Wow that’s interesting lol I wonder if the knicks backed out of their deal with Morris
Morris’ twitter just posted he wanted a new Knicks profile pic. He’s a Knick.

[Degoat]

Morris’ twitter just posted he wanted a new Knicks profile pic. He’s a Knick.

dang would’ve been funny if they had lol

[Realdeal1]

Morris probably fired Rich Paul to save face in this whole mess

[r0drig0lac]

That’s great if true. I feel much less angry at Marcus Morris.

[Mr. Body]

Morris probably fired Rich Paul to save face in this whole mess

Maybe was an actual miscommunication -- Morris didn't want to take the SAS deal, he just wants to dog it in Gotham. Paul probably isn't giving a fuck about a mid-tier player.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1011635342900912128/hJ72fFsO_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN)Stefan Bondy (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN) @SBondyNYDN (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN)
about 11 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/SBondyNYDN/status/1150173393754501120)
According to a source, Marcus Morris and Nerlens Noel have fired agent Rich Paul.

I was just about to post this. Rich Paul and his people must have fucked up and it wasn't Morris fault with him signing with us, I suppose.

Maybe Dejounte will follow their path and do the same thing because I have a bad feeling about when it's time to negotiate his new deal.

[RC_Drunkford]

saw his clips... he is more of an unmotivated yet more physical and matured samanic... think boris diaw

if he's Boris Diaw we might have something here. Would surprise me though

[Mr. Body]

I'm going to revise my thoughts. I think he may have mismanaged their expectations, never setting a clear idea of what they were looking at this off-season. His tactics are just to bludgeon, extort, and demand, then go to free agency if it doesn't work. For mid-tier players this rarely goes well. Also, they may look at what the Lakers had in cap space and wonder why they didn't go there instead.

[cutewizard]

:fro

[cutewizard]

Luka is our catch

[ZeusWillJudge]

That’s great if true. I feel much less angry at Marcus Morris.


Nah. He could have reached out to the Spurs. He had to know that the Morris Watch was being headlined on every basketball site. And he knew the Spurs had made a full MLE offer.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks can't get Bullock to agree to the Room Exception, so they don't have any way to sign Morris. He could wind up having to sign on somewhere for less than the Spurs' offer. This little game could cost him a ton of money. That would be a good reason to fire Rich Paul, wouldn't it?

But if he really wanted to play in SA for the full MLE, he could have made that happen with a single phone call. Fuck 'im.

[RC_Drunkford]

Nah. He could have reached out to the Spurs. He had to know that the Morris Watch was being headlined on every basketball site. And he knew the Spurs had made a full MLE offer.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks can't get Bullock to agree to the Room Exception, so they don't have any way to sign Morris. He could wind up having to sign on somewhere for less than the Spurs' offer. This little game could cost him a ton of money. That would be a good reason to fire Rich Paul, wouldn't it?

But if he really wanted to play in SA for the full MLE, he could have made that happen with a single phone call. Fuck 'im.

didn't Morris already sign with the Knicks?

[picnroll]

That a deal didn't exist and that Dolan didn't unscrupulously interfere is giving too much credit to Dolan. I believe Dolan approached Morris, Morris backed out, Paul pressured Morris to accept the Spurs offer so Rich wouldn't seriously damage his reputation with other front offices. Morris didn't like Paul trying to make him honor the offer and so said adios Paul. Cant believe Spurs wouldn't have traded Bertans without at some point talking to Morris who was on board at that point.

[ZeusWillJudge]

didn't Morris already sign with the Knicks?


Aww, hell, I don't really know. I quit following it closely, and all these "news" sites say a guy signed, when what they really did was agree to a deal.

If Morris fired his agent after signing a deal for $5M more, it's sort of a non-story. I shouldn't have even commented - I really don't give a shit what Marcus Morris does at this point.

[slick'81]

didn't Morris already sign with the Knicks?


Of course he took the 15 mil

[Joseph Kony]

didn't Morris already sign with the Knicks?

dont think so, dont see it officially announced on their social media pages tbh...

[ZeusWillJudge]

Of course he took the 15 mil


Everything I can find says he agreed to terms. That's not the same as signing. We should all know that now. But I did find this statement from Morris:

"I had to make this decision based on the best situation for me and my family," Morris told Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1149463897855819782). "This is no knock on the Spurs. I have respect for them."

Maybe he's got to feed Latrell Sprewell's family too.

[Mr. Body]

Everything I can find says he agreed to terms. That's not the same as signing. We should all know that now. But I did find this statement from Morris:

"I had to make this decision based on the best situation for me and my family," Morris told Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1149463897855819782). "This is no knock on the Spurs. I have respect for them."

Maybe he's got to feed Latrell Sprewell's family too.

Maybe his family only eats New York pizza.

[spurs10]

"I had to make this decision based on the best situation for me and my family," Morris told Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1149463897855819782). "This is no knock on the Spurs. I have respect for them."

'That's all fine and good for your family Marcus, but what about the Spurs Family!!???'

[slick'81]

'That's all fine and good for your family Marcus, but what about the Spurs Family!!???'


He respects the spurs remember:cry

[spurs10]

Maybe his family only eats New York pizza. I could go with that! Which reminds me the smell of the Pizza Hut pizza they sell at games smells like someone burning a tire.

[spurs10]

He respects the spurs remember:cry :pctoss

[ZeusWillJudge]

In case anybody sort of scanned over this part:

"I had to make this decision based on the best situation for me and my family," Morris told Charania.

So Rich Paul may be a scum, but nobody can blame this on him alone. Morris says that HE made the decision. He knew what was going on. Paul may have gotten him the better offer, but HE chose to renege on the Spurs.

I don't know the whole story, but I can't see any reason for Morris to fire Paul for getting him more money. So maybe he's pissed that Paul made the deal with the Spurs public - so maybe he didn't mind screwing over the Spurs, he just didn't want everyone to know about it.

I hope Paul insists on getting the full deal promised to him, and Morris is left holding the bag.

[RC_Drunkford]

Morris, according to a source, turned down a $41 million offer from the Clippers before pivoting to the Spurs and, eventually, the Knicks (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-marcus-morris-fires-agent-rich-paul-20190714-ukiwxagbkvdbrayopyqgs6m2ye-story.html). Paul has emerged as an NBA lightning rod with his Sports Illustrated cover story and high-profile clients such as LeBron James, Anthony Davis, John Wall and Ben Simmons. He pushed for Davis’ trade from New Orleans to the Lakers — a saga that essentially sabotaged last season for both teams — and recently secured a max offer for Simmons in Philly. Still, he has never had a player in New York, and it will remain that way after the separation from Morris

I guess Rich Paul didn't want him on the Flippers. That's probably what this is about

[K...]

1151138666451836928


So the final shoe drops, how bad was the low-ball offer?

[K...]

1151141568000253958


That's a capitulation

[John B]

1151141568000253958


That's a capitulation
Dang from 21mil over two years, to two-year 4.7mil exception, with a team option for the 2nd year :lmao

[SpursDynasty85]

Dang from 21mil over two years, to two-year 4.7mil exception, with a team option for the 2nd year :lmao

There is no way of knowing whether he got side deals. Still smells fishy to me. Still benefits Lakers and Bron too much to weaken Spurs.

[kobyz]

apparently Morris had a 41mil offer from the Clippers early in the FA process, Rich Paul had him decline it and then Clippers went for Mo instead...

[DAF86]

1151141568000253958


That's a capitulation

Dude, at least sign anywhere else to save some face.

[cd98]

apparently Morris had a 41mil offer from the Clippers early in the FA process, Rich Paul had him decline it and then Clippers went for Mo instead...

That's why he got fired. You can't overvalue your player. He told him to wait for a bigger contract. Truth be told, there will probably be more free agent dollars next season, but Morris wanted a payday and security starting this year. Not the first time Paul has not been able to deliver a big contract for a mid-tier talent. LeBron's not on the Clippers calling the shots so getting them to give up a big contract is a lot trickier.

[kobyz]

That's why he got fired. You can't overvalue your player. He told him to wait for a bigger contract. Truth be told, there will probably be more free agent dollars next season, but Morris wanted a payday and security starting this year. Not the first time Paul has not been able to deliver a big contract for a mid-tier talent. LeBron's not on the Clippers calling the shots so getting them to give up a big contract is a lot trickier.

I can see Clippers eventually trading with the Knicks and getting morris after all, would be a different maker for them trying to win the west!
Mo Harkless and Mfiundu Kabengele for Morris - that would justify the dirty move Knicks played over the Spurs!

[cd98]

I can see Clippers eventually trading with the Knicks and getting morris after all, would be a different maker for them trying to win the west!
Mo Harkless and Mfiundu Kabengele for Morris - that would justify the dirty move Knicks played over the Spurs!

I actually do think the Knicks signed him to that deal to use as a future asset down the road as part of a trade. I can't blame Morris for taking more money, though. He's got a short window to make millions. I'd do the same unless I was getting a bunch of max contracts in a row.