Spurs and DeRozan Discussing Extension

[MoSpur02]

Per Shams

[Dennis the Menace]

Per Shams

Yuck. This Brian Wright as GM seems like he sucks

[FkLA]

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[raybies]

Stability would be nice... could always move him later to make way for youngins if needed. No ones gonna want to sign here anyways. I’m ok with it

[spurs1990]

Why why why extend him with two years on a contract. Let him prove it this season. Please Spurs don't do this to your fans

[raybies]

Why why why extend him with two years on a contract. Let him prove it this season. Please Spurs don't do this to your fans
The reason to do now would only be to get a better than market deal... but what do I know

[cd021]

Why why why extend him with two years on a contract. Let him prove it this season. Please Spurs don't do this to your fans

It's one year, no way he would opt in to year in the final year of his deal.

[rastaspur]

Wtf.

[cd021]

Stability would be nice... could always move him later to make way for youngins if needed. No ones gonna want to sign here anyways. I’m ok with it


The reason to do now would only be to get a better than market deal... but what do I know

It's not like teams are lining up to sign him In the off season and he probably isn't going to get more tradeable going forward, he's already a poor defender and 3pt shooter and is 30.

Also puts Walker and KJ's role in question going forward, just an odd move tbh.

[ginobilized]

The Spurs must value a guy that can give them 20/6/6. That’s not the easiest thing to find in today’s NBA.

[Dverde]

Doubling down on their trade decision. Seems very Spursian. I hope it’s at a discount. That LMA extension wasn’t a disaster like many expected

[raybies]

Doubling down on their trade decision. Seems very Spursian. I hope it’s at a discount. That LMA extension wasn’t a disaster like many expected
Yup I agree. I only like this if we get a good discount

[baseline bum]

Gross

[BatManu20]

Not surprised tbh. DeRozan has many faults but he’s still a legit talent and those don’t come to SA freely very often. Spurs will try to lock him up long-term, and will likely have to pay more than we’d like in order to make it happen tbh.

[raybies]

It's not like teams are lining up to sign him In the off season and he probably isn't going to get more tradeable going forward, he's already a poor defender and 3pt shooter and is 30.

Also puts Walker and KJ's role in question going forward, just an odd move tbh.
They haven’t talked extension all summer and now when training camp starts all of a sudden they are talking.. all accounts is he looks really good. No sense to let talent walk in a retool period. It’s not guaranteed any of the young guys reach potential but if they do you worry about that later

[Genovaswitness]

I hope he gets a career ending injury. Fuck him and fuck this team for sticking with this idiot

[BatManu20]

Mugen (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15519) get in here and celebrate the good news tbh :lol


:danceclub

[baseline bum]

It's one year, no way he would opt in to year in the final year of his deal.

That opt in for 2020-21 is nearly $28 million. You think he's getting that on the market?

[raybies]

That opt in for 2020-21 is nearly $28 million. You think he's getting that on the market?
Tru... especially with most teams with no cap this year and a terrible free agent class but he would definitely wrap more up long term and there’s always that one team...

[RD2191]

:lol from MVKawhi to MVDepression.

[exstatic]

Doubling down on their trade decision. Seems very Spursian. I hope it’s at a discount. That LMA extension wasn’t a disaster like many expected

Exactly. People are acting like it's Patty, and not the guy who put down 21/6/6. DD isn't my favorite player, or even favorite Spur, but I don't see a lot of options to replace him next summer. Most players won't even take a meeting here. I'd be down with something like LMA's deal: non-max, and 3 years with an option or partial for a 4th.

[BatManu20]

Tbh, for all of DeMar’s faults, he would be SO much better if he could just shoot a fucking 3-pointer. Which I realize is a lot to ask from a SG in 2019. If he starts doing that this season, he’s a completely different player, though I’m not holding my breath.

[Dverde]

Anyone who believes this extension will be below 20 Mil per year is dreaming. Gonna be higher than that.

[NASpurs]

Tbh, for all of DeMar’s faults, he would be SO much better if he could just shoot a fucking 3-pointer. Which I realize is a lot to ask from a SG in 2019. If he starts doing that this season, he’s a completely different player, though I’m not holding my breath.

Way to ignore the other side of the court :lol

20/6/6 while barely being a net positive in the slightest of margins.

[Leetonidas]

Depends on how much and how long... 2 or 3 years at 20 mil or so is not horrible and an easily moveable deal. Anything longer and for money ima be pissed. And considering the spurs history I can guess we're in store for a 4 year 120 million extension or some shit :pctoss

[exstatic]

Anyone who believes this extension will be below 20 Mil per year is dreaming. Gonna be higher than that.

No one rational thinks that. $20-23M would be a huge discount from the $28M he will make this year and next. Something like 3/$70, with a year four partial of $6-7M might get it done.

[YGWHI]

DeRozan hurt the Spurs on the defensive last season but with DJ healthy that's not an issue anymore.

Certainly he's not the best playoffs performer but the Spurs don't have other guy who can score and pass the ball like him. It seems like DeRozan would get his extension before Murray. Weird.

[Seventyniner]

Way to ignore the other side of the court :lol

20/6/6 while barely being a net positive in the slightest of margins.

Let's go max out Bonner then if +/- is what matters.

[cd98]

Well maybe he's worked on his game this offseason and he's show something to them. Maybe he's developed a three point shot to add to this game.

[timtonymanu]

Yep this will hold the franchise back again. They seem to love handing out contract extensions prematurely these days. And again with that 20/6/6 crap from Popsuckers when Derozan plays only one side of the ball, can’t shoot 3s and still folds under pressure.

[cd021]

That opt in for 2020-21 is nearly $28 million. You think he's getting that on the market?
Most players opt for longer term money rather than playing out the last year and hitting FA a year later- when he'll be 31.

[Dennis the Menace]

Seriously, Lonnie and Derrick are going to be better overall players than Derozan in the next 1-2 years. You can even argue that Derrick has already passed Derozan as of right now

How TF are you going to have the space to pay Murray, White, Walker, Aldridge with Derozan??

[tmtcsc]

Well maybe he's worked on his game this offseason and he's show something to them. Maybe he's developed a three point shot to add to this game.

I appreciate the optimism. There's always a chance he dedicated himself to working on his 3 point shot but unfortunately, 30 year old players (with a few exceptions) don't change their games much. They pretty much are who they are. Tim, Manu & Kobe were the exceptions in recent years.

[DJR210]

Makes zero sense with all the young guards on this team.. hard pass. I'd rather have seasons come up short with some financial flexibility at the least

[DJR210]

Well maybe he's worked on his game this offseason and he's show something to them. Maybe he's developed a three point shot to add to this game.

Yeah right :lol

He added a cool new Compton hairstyle that's about it

[Chucho]

The Spurs must value a guy that can give them 20/6/6. That’s not the easiest thing to find in today’s NBA.


"HE FUCKING SUCKS."

-Every SpursTalk GM

[Chucho]

I appreciate the optimism. There's always a chance he dedicated himself to working on his 3 point shot but unfortunately, 30 year old players (with a few exceptions) don't change their games much. They pretty much are who they are. Tim, Manu & Kobe were the exceptions in recent years.


Dominique Wilkins couldn't shoot the three to save his life and he was a sure fire First Ballot HoFer before he started picking it up and had his best season in 3-4 years before he got traded to the Clippers.

It can definitely happen.

[Chucho]

If we could get from under Richard Jefferson and Malik Rose, I think we can get from under a Demar contract within 2-3 years. Chris Paul and the cement contract bound to him was moved and he's a tired old shit bag who is beyond done.

[cd021]

They haven’t talked extension all summer and now when training camp starts all of a sudden they are talking.. all accounts is he looks really good. No sense to let talent walk in a retool period. It’s not guaranteed any of the young guys reach potential but if they do you worry about that later

It probably has more to do with the upcoming deadline. LA's extension came about just before the extension deadline too. Locking in DeRozan to a 3 year extension means that they're locking this team into place for this season and next season too. That probably means diminishing returns with Aldridge and Gay and probably DDR too.

PATFO is locking themselves into a low ceiling team . Better to play the year out and see how DDR, White and Murray play. If they both improve then why keep DeRozan and paying him $30 million a year when they disperse his shots and play-making among White, Murray and Walker and having a lot more flexibility going forward.

Betting on Walker becoming a good player is as risky of a bet as DeRozan playing up to a big extension in his 30's but the former is only 20, still on his rookie deal and has potential to be a shooter and a defender- something that DDR isn't.

[Uriel]

I don't understand this move. Don't LMA and DeRozan's contracts expire at the same time (assuming DeRozan exercises his player option)? Wouldn't it make more sense to make a deep push these next two seasons then start anew in the summer of 2021 when both contracts come off the books?

[GAustex]

He is a good player but not for the money that they are going to give to him.

He comes up short when you need your big $$ guy to come through.

Get a good trade for him and move on.

[cd021]

Dominique Wilkins couldn't shoot the three to save his life and he was a sure fire First Ballot HoFer before he started picking it up and had his best season in 3-4 years before he got traded to the Clippers.

It can definitely happen.

What are the odds that DDR is able to increase his FT rate back to his peak Toronto days and shoot around league average on a decent amount of 3's? I think that's really unlikely. That means the players around him are gonna have to be able to space it while he creates so Murray, White and ideally LA would have to become consistent threats from 3.

[siraulo23]

:lol

[tmtcsc]

Think -> Dollar Cost Averaging. Make his contract easier to move with a lower per year average. The thought is to perhaps be able to get something in return IF traded.

[monty4329]

Any rationale for extending him is trumped by the fact that DDR loses games. Because that's the bottom line: he is all over a net negative. It is not completely his fault that Pop keeps giving him the ball to finish games, but still: he sucks on defense, can't dribble and can't close games. I know he has a superior game inside 15 feet, but so what? if he keeps losing us games...

I get all the reasons to keep him, but I don't find them compelling enough.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Make the deal contingent upon his 3pt % being above 33% this year. :tu

[playblair]

Yuck. This Brian Wright as GM seems like he sucks

first he costs us a franchise player & now hes resigning a mental midget.............fire wright

[MultiTroll]

smh
Does Timmy Duncan have any say in personnell decisions now that he will be assistant coach?

[ZeusWillJudge]

Maybe it's because he spent the summer learning to drain 3's like an assassin.

Maybe. You don't know.

[Yogatti]

I suggest $100 Million Dollars for Derrick White and this board freaks out about it. Derozen gets an Gazillion Dollar extension and Spurs are on their knees slurping PATFO like they always do:lol

[exstatic]

I appreciate the optimism. There's always a chance he dedicated himself to working on his 3 point shot but unfortunately, 30 year old players (with a few exceptions) don't change their games much. They pretty much are who they are. Tim, Manu & Kobe were the exceptions in recent years.

JKidd vastly improved his 3 ball after age 30.

[exstatic]

I suggest $100 Million Dollars for Derrick White and this board freaks out about it. Derozen gets an Gazillion Dollar extension and Spurs are on their knees slurping PATFO like they always do:lol

He hasn't gotten ANYTHING yet.

[poopbox]

I had dreams of Lonnie starting at the 3 next season but if this is true it looks like I need to go back to sleep...

[r0drig0lac]

Gross

[TDomination]

He is a good player but not for the money that they are going to give to him.

He comes up short when you need your big $$ guy to come through.

Get a good trade for him and move on.

this is likely the reason for the extension. I’m pretty sure they took some calls for derozan this summer but there’s likely no takers. At least nothing worth our while

[Dennis the Menace]

It appears drafting & developing is the only exceptional trait of this organization. It sure as shit isn’t contract & roster management (Parker’s albatross,Gasol, Mills, etc)

[SpursDynasty85]

Makes sense Derozan would seek an extension just for due diligence and the Spurs would seek to see what they can sign him for (they can easily trade him if it is a good discount).

[baseline bum]

Maybe it's because he spent the summer learning to drain 3's like an assassin.

Maybe. You don't know.

I was hoping to see that last year, like he'd be pissed and looking to show Toronto up for lying to him and trading him. Instead he shot 15.6%.

[Robz4000]

:vomit:

[cd98]

I think the Spurs are smarter than people here think. Sure, they overpaid Patty, but I think they liked what he did on and off the court and that made it a worthwhile short term investment. Other than that, you don't see them throwing too much money at a player. They are keenly aware of DeRozan's weaknesses and they have not signed him thus far likely because they are aware. I think they would not talk another deal unless it was for less money and he showed enough improvement that they think he can help them compete for a title. There is some pressure to not let Kawhi get away for nothing, but after last year, no one outside of San Antonio is looking at that so I think if they really thought DeRozan was not helpful or worth the money, they wouldn't be talking to him about an extension, they would be looking to trade him.

[jermaine]

If anyone thinks this contract is only for Derozan, you're a fool. This move is to keep Murray happy an keep Murray. If you'll haven't seen the bonf between them, you're blind.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Mixed feelings tbh.

Reasons to be optimistic: DeRozan is a gym rat and is always looking to add to his game every summer. His last two season in Toronto he shot 43% and 38% from the corner 3. So he can shoot them. However, he was our primary ball handler and had nobody to really set him up for corner 3s. We have Murray back and a more experienced White so this should help Demar and his 3 point shot.

He has had an entire offseason working with Chip and should understand the Spurs system both defensively and offensively so it wouldn't surprise me if he played better this year.

He also seems like a really good mentor to the young guys and genuinely gets along with everybody on the team

Reasons for pessimism (the more realistic choice): He plays bad defense. When he doesn't have the ball, he stays stationary and isn't really a threat from the outside. This hurts the offense and makes life much harder for LMA.

He shrinks in the playoffs. The dude has a couple of good games where you think ok he's back into form, only for him to shit the bed the next game.

He has the most predictable move in history as his go to move to finish games and for some reason Pop loves him using this move to take game winners. Like Pop loves that move alot. ALOT. I think we lost 7 games last season due to this bullshit.

Oh and I forgot to mention, he shot FIFTEEN percent from 3 last year. That's almost as bad as Playoff Patty Mills. Almost.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

I had dreams of Lonnie starting at the 3 next season but if this is true it looks like I need to go back to sleep...That must have been a terrible nightmare you had.

[8FOR!3]

It's not like teams are lining up to sign him In the off season and he probably isn't going to get more tradeable going forward, he's already a poor defender and 3pt shooter and is 30.

Also puts Walker and KJ's role in question going forward, just an odd move tbh.

I would think some team out there would offer him the max. A team like Charlotte would love to have a star like DeRozan. Having him and Aldridge on the team gives us legitimate talent while Murray/White/Walker/etc. go through growing pains as they become potential stars themselves. It also gives them all stars to learn from and play with. Without DeRozan/Aldridge a lot of people would think we're this young exciting team, I also don't think we'd be a playoff team.

[TimDunkem]

Fuck this team if they extend this loser.

[itzsoweezee]

I'm definitely jumping ship if they extend this scrub. This front office just keeps making bad decision after bad decision.

[Dex]

Count me down as someone who feels like this is putting the cart before the horse. Let DeRozan play out this last year and show that his skill set truly fits what the team is trying to do, and then talk extension next summer.

I fail to see any reason why they should be rushing into things now. If anything, a contract year could light a fire under his ass.

[spurraider21]

Gross

[sasaint]

Mixed feelings tbh.

Reasons to be optimistic: DeRozan is a gym rat and is always looking to add to his game every summer. His last two season in Toronto he shot 43% and 38% from the corner 3. So he can shoot them. However, he was our primary ball handler and had nobody to really set him up for corner 3s. We have Murray back and a more experienced White so this should help Demar and his 3 point shot.

He has had an entire offseason working with Chip and should understand the Spurs system both defensively and offensively so it wouldn't surprise me if he played better this year.

He also seems like a really good mentor to the young guys and genuinely gets along with everybody on the team

Reasons for pessimism (the more realistic choice): He plays bad defense. When he doesn't have the ball, he stays stationary and isn't really a threat from the outside. This hurts the offense and makes life much harder for LMA.

He shrinks in the playoffs. The dude has a couple of good games where you think ok he's back into form, only for him to shit the bed the next game.

He has the most predictable move in history as his go to move to finish games and for some reason Pop loves him using this move to take game winners. Like Pop loves that move alot. ALOT. I think we lost 7 games last season due to this bullshit.

Oh and I forgot to mention, he shot FIFTEEN percent from 3 last year. That's almost as bad as Playoff Patty Mills. Almost.

Further reasons for pessimism: 1) Dumbmar has a low BBIQ, 2) with a low BBIQ and super-predictable go-to move he still plays hero-ball (ineffectively), and 3) he is an emo tantrum-thrower that Pop NEVER would have tolerated in the past.

[tmtcsc]

JKidd vastly improved his 3 ball after age 30.

He's another great example. Brook Lopez helped himself by expanding his range.

[phxspurfan]

Do it, I need value from my jersey purchase!

[phxspurfan]

Further reasons for pessimism: 1) Dumbmar has a low BBIQ

He doesn't have a low IQ, just an average one. He showed signs of being a capable distributor early last season.

[phxspurfan]

If anyone thinks this contract is only for Derozan, you're a fool. This move is to keep Murray happy an keep Murray. If you'll haven't seen the bonf between them, you're blind.

Agree with this, Rudy Gay, DeRozan and LMA are core guys, along with White. And Murray is getting the core treatment due to his intangibles, work ethic, loyalty and stuff, plus he's cheap and seems to want to play here, so why not try and keep him happy

[cd98]

If anyone thinks this contract is only for Derozan, you're a fool. This move is to keep Murray happy an keep Murray. If you'll haven't seen the bonf between them, you're blind.

If the Spurs offered Murray the max, he would sign today regardless if DeRozan is on the roster. But I struggle to think how the Spurs make the playoffs this year without DeRozen. People hate on the guy, but he's the only guy on the roster that I trust to score in isolation. He might not do it in the playoffs, but he doesn't in the regular season when the Spurs have needed it.

[Degoat]

I don't love demars fit on this team but tell me who on this team can average 21/6/6? I love all are young pieces but none of them other then Dwhite imo has showed anything in important moments

[BD24]

:pctoss

[MultiTroll]

I don't love demars fit on this team but tell me who on this team can average 21/6/6? I love all are young pieces but none of them other then Dwhite imo has showed anything in important moments
Split up among those that can play D.

Net big gain.

[exstatic]

Split up among those that can play D.

Net big gain.

You're like that sap in a fantasy league that will trade 1 A player for 3 C players. Yes, in the aggregate, they may be able to replace the numbers, but you can't play the 3 of them simultaneously with 4 other players. You can play DD with 4 other players, because that's a 5 man lineup. You need guys who can individually produce those numbers to replace him, and none of them have shown that they can.

[TD 21]

Incredibly stupid and unfortunately not surprising in the least. He should be treated as a sunk cost and they should be trying to salvage whatever minimal value they can for him (probably a lottery protected 1st, fringe young player and salary filler), but instead their ego/pride is going to supersede what's best for the franchise again.

There is no number (it'll probably be similar to Aldridge's extension) that's a good one because he doesn't make sense going forward and it won't increase his trade value markedly (and I'll believe they'd operate like that when I see it) because the only 2 teams he makes sense for are the Pistons and Magic and even if they reach an agreement in principle on a trade, they could stipulate that it's contingent upon his agreeing to an extension first.

[sasaint]

You're like that sap in a fantasy league that will trade 1 A player for 3 C players. Yes, in the aggregate, they may be able to replace the numbers, but you can't play the 3 of them simultaneously with 4 other players. You can play DD with 4 other players, because that's a 5 man lineup. You need guys who can individually produce those numbers to replace him, and none of them have shown that they can.

Except we already have guys on the roster to take on a chunk of that 21/6/6 and who need the opportunity.

[TimDunkem]

My God...How far have we fallen? Some morons in here are really trying to talk themselves into an aging iso midrange baller as the centerpiece of the team. DeRozan never worked before and he never will. He will never win a title. Nor will he ever come up big in the biggest moments.

This is just the FO trying to save face from the Kawhi deal rather than ending up with nothing, while trying to "do right" by DeRozan by making him feel like he has a home. This doesn't make sense from a basketball standpoint and you PATFO slurpers know it deep down. You know what you thought about him before he was a Spur....Same with LMA and Gay for that matter.

[sasaint]

My God...How far have we fallen? Some morons in here are really trying to talk themselves into an aging iso midrange baller as the centerpiece of the team. DeRozan never worked before and he never will. He will never win a title. Nor will he ever come up big in the biggest moments.

This is just the FO trying to save face from the Kawhi deal rather than ending up with nothing, while trying to "do right" by DeRozan by making him feel like he has a home. This doesn't make sense from a basketball standpoint and you PATFO slurpers know it deep down. You know what you thought about him before he was a Spur....Same with LMA and Gay for that matter.

I guess I am 1 out of 3. I always liked Gay. But tbh that was back when he still had a little speed/quickness.

[TD 21]

You're like that sap in a fantasy league that will trade 1 A player for 3 C players. Yes, in the aggregate, they may be able to replace the numbers, but you can't play the 3 of them simultaneously with 4 other players. You can play DD with 4 other players, because that's a 5 man lineup. You need guys who can individually produce those numbers to replace him, and none of them have shown that they can.

:lmao Counting stats in '19. How do you know they can't produce them (on poor efficiency, which I notice you conveniently left out)? Give them approaching 35 mpg and a 30% usage and they probably at least come close.

Either way, it's irrelevant because he's a low impact player, with an archaic skillset that's extremely difficult to build around. They could attempt to spin that trading for him was because he was the best value available, but committing to him is the ultimate sign that they're content being a treadmill team.

There's probably a good chance the collective upside of Murray, White and Walker is being overrated, but that doesn't change the fact that they're the franchises best hope for a future beyond treadmill status. They need to be put in a position to flourish, not have their development stunted to prioritize a pseudo star.

[Pavlov]

Our great hope is the production of the guy who can't shoot will be replaced by two guys who can't shoot.

[TD 21]

Our great hope is the production of the guy who can't shoot will be replaced by two guys who can't shoot.

At least they're young or youngish, relatively or totally unestablished and can't shoot. There's hope and time. He's none of the above and stuck in his ways.

I'd rather see them with more of a 3 and D wing alongside. Maybe they'll flounder and drown and none will prove capable of shouldering a featured option's burden, but at least then we'll know.

[SpursDynasty85]

I actually think Demar took some strides in his defense last year, especially the playoffs. I'm sure Spurs have seen that. Most players just don't want to take the energy to play defense because it throws their offensive rhythm a little off and they are tired. If Demar can focus on the dirty work (similar to what Lamarcus has been doing for us) and we sign him at a reasonable rate, it may be a good play. If Demar is in contract year mode then he may just worry about his offense so he can up his free agency market value. Fans like numbers, and teams like making fans excited.

[Genovaswitness]

reminder that the spurs went from having kawhicheal Jordan to trying to convince ourselves that extending this sack of shit won’t set the franchise back 10+ years :lmao

[SpursDynasty85]

reminder that the spurs went from having kawhicheal Jordan to trying to convince ourselves that extending this sack of shit won’t set the franchise back 10+ years :lmao

What's your point? Dude always wanted to go to LA.

[Big P]

I don't love demars fit on this team but tell me who on this team can average 21/6/6? I love all are young pieces but none of them other then Dwhite imo has showed anything in important moments

It's not about who can make up his production, it's about being able to be a player if FA....if DD came off the books we would be looking at a near max cap slot...if we can't sign anyone (as usual), use the cap space to make a trade...sad that this is going to be the "big move" that the new GM makes...another albatross contract like gasol and parker, that will not help the team compete.

[Dennis the Menace]

Can we start a fire Brian Wright thread/movement? I’d rather have more iso Lonnie than iso Derozan

[Prose]

Why why why extend him with two years on a contract. Let him prove it this season. Please Spurs don't do this to your fans

[Prose]

people saying he gives you 20/6/6, those are empty number on a team that had no point guards for like the first quarter of the season. Look at the spurs his plus minus on and off the court...only reason we won any games is bc we had the best bench that dug us out of the 15 point whole the first unit put us in. I know there are 4 other players but his fit with LMA is bad and causes spacing problems

[Dex]

I've said this before and gotten shit on, but I'll say it again...

DeMar seems to have gotten really close to some of the guys...particularly Murray. He is also really close with Gay, but Rudy is on the tail-end of his career.

If the Spurs want Murray to be a part of the future, and they feel that pissing off DeRozan is going to interfere with that...that could be a problem.

I want all the players to succeed, for the sake of themselves as well as the team...I just hope that personnel decisions aren't being made on relationships. But, for better or worse, that does seem to be a part of the Spurs' "culture"

[Robz4000]

I've said this before and gotten shit on, but I'll say it again...

DeMar seems to have gotten really close to some of the guys...particularly Murray. He is also really close with Gay, but Rudy is on the tail-end of his career.

If the Spurs want Murray to be a part of the future, and they feel that pissing off DeRozan is going to interfere with that...that could be a problem.

I want all the players to succeed, for the sake of themselves as well as the team...I just hope that personnel decisions aren't being made on relationships. But, for better or worse, that does seem to be a part of the Spurs' "culture"

If that's the case they may as well package Murray with DeRozan to try to get back a good player. Murray hasn't shown anywhere near enough on the court to get the clout for personnel decisions to be made based off who he likes off the court.

[ace3g]

DeRozan better be shooing 35-40 % from 3 next season if he gets this extension (still not sure even Chip can take a 9 year career .283 3pt% shooter and turn him into a decent shooter).

[UZER]

Derozen has so much athleticism and skill. But he’s a bonehead with zero bball IQ, so his talents actually works against him in late game/playoff situation because he thinks he can drive or score every time. Frustrating to watch.

Hopefully the ball will be Murray’s hands late and derozen won’t waste possessions while everyone just watches him turn it over.

[RC_Drunkford]

Only makes sense to extend him that early if he has drastically improved his 3-point shot. Then I don't mind it, but I wouldn't want to pay more than 30 million per year for him. 27 per year on the current market is actually ok, but if they pay him 30 or more then nah. Let's see what he looks like and for how much it is. The Aldridge extension was great and a discount. I just want the Spurs to have some flexibility for next offseason so they can go after Jaylen Brown.

I also think that there's a good chance that Lonnie Walker can score like last years version of DeRozan pretty soon if he'd get the same amount of shots and minutes. It kind of makes sense to line up DeRozan's contract with Lonnie's, so that when DeMar comes off the books they can extend Walker

[RC_Drunkford]

"One source who saw DeRozan work out this summer in Los Angeles told The Athletic that his shooting looks improved (https://theathletic.com/1264363/2019/10/04/charanias-inside-pass-derozans-future-with-spurs-siakam-seeking-max-deal/) and his mindset will benefit from a full summer to digest the knowledge gained after a year in Gregg Popovich’s system"

if this is the case give Chip Engeland the super max

[lefty]

DDR would have been better than MJ if he played in thr 90s, so it’s not that bad

[RC_Drunkford]

here's some footage from an offseason scrimmage where he knocks down a couple of 3s. Form looks better


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwc0863M3Og

[Chinook]

This good. Most of ST has their heads really far up their asses (expect for Rob. Obviously he's cool) and think just any old guy the Spurs draft will be an All-Star. Maxing DeRozan would be bad. Giving him a max contract next summer would be worse. But talking about extending the clear second-best player on the team? Yes, duh. Worry about White, Walker or Murray being better than DeMar when they actually get that good. They aren't close yet.

[spurs1990]

Spurs fans this news should keep you awake at night. If this extension nightmare becomes reality, DeMar DeRozan will be the face of your franchise for the next five years.

You will grow half a decade older and experience nearly 500 games of this man wearing your team's uniform, playing 80% of the minutes, and getting the ball down the stretch for every close game, assuming he's not tossed for throwing it at refs. Five years of depression.

[Big P]

The FO will bid against themselves again and give him a 3 year 70 mil extension a la gasol..sad.

[ElNono]

I mean, our alleged best player is the soulless LMA, tbh, since we're spinning wheels, why not? At least you have a contract with some sort of trade value.

[monty4329]

I don't love demars fit on this team but tell me who on this team can average 21/6/6?

Sign Melo then :lol. Better stats.

[Dverde]

The FO will bid against themselves again and give him a 3 year 70 mil extension a la gasol..sad.

They could max him out and this deal still wouldn’t be as dumb as the Gasol contract.

[tbdog]

I like DD. But I don't compare him to Leonard.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Spurs fans this news should keep you awake at night. If this extension nightmare becomes reality, DeMar DeRozan will be the face of your franchise for the next five years.

You will grow half a decade older and experience nearly 500 games of this man wearing your team's uniform, playing 80% of the minutes, and getting the ball down the stretch for every close game, assuming he's not tossed for throwing it at refs. Five years of depression.


Well that's depressing. But look at the bright side: if the Spurs miss the playoffs, and DDR gets a few nights off, it will only be like 360 games instead of 500. :D

[ZeusWillJudge]

here's some footage from an offseason scrimmage where he knocks down a couple of 3s. Form looks better


I didn't watch the whole clip, but what I saw him shoot were long 2's. The dumbest shot in basketball. If he starts doing that, just shoot me.

[Gagnrath]

Any rationale for extending him is trumped by the fact that DDR loses games. Because that's the bottom line: he is all over a net negative. It is not completely his fault that Pop keeps giving him the ball to finish games, but still: he sucks on defense, can't dribble and can't close games. I know he has a superior game inside 15 feet, but so what? if he keeps losing us games...

I get all the reasons to keep him, but I don't find them compelling enough.

He isn't an elite primary ball handler but he is competent to handle playmaking duties. Thing is the guy isn't a closer. Under the magnifying lens of last 5 minute close games the focused bright light tends to make him wilt. If you had him next to a player who was a finisher even a lesser talented one to relieve the pressure on him it would make him look immensely better

[TimDunkem]

I didn't watch the whole clip, but what I saw him shoot were long 2's. The dumbest shot in basketball. If he starts doing that, just shoot me.

Starts?...That's his game. That's what he's going to do and it's not going to change.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Starts?...That's his game. That's what he's going to do and it's not going to change.

No, that hasn't been his game for his whole career. Last year he took 75% of his shots from inside 16 feet, and 3.4% of his shots from 3P. He didn't shoot a hell of a lot from out near the 3P line, except when the clock was running down and he had to throw something up.

The shots in that video had one foot over the 3P circle. Taking a lower-percentage shot without the possibility of getting the third point is just dumb.

[tonight...you]

No, that hasn't been his game for his whole career. Last year he took 75% of his shots from inside 16 feet, and 3.4% of his shots from 3P. He didn't shoot a hell of a lot from out near the 3P line, except when the clock was running down and he had to throw something up.

The shots in that video had one foot over the 3P circle. Taking a lower-percentage shot without the possibility of getting the third point is just dumb.
The Vinny Del Negro Special.

[John B]

He had a Harden 4 steps to shoot the 3 and made it. That’s encouraging :lol

[Bballplaya]

Absolutely extend the best player on our teams contract. He has really good handles, can score and is a solid rebounder. A player of his skillset and talent you just don’t let walk away. I like our younger players, but let’s be honest they are average or slightly above average players. We kid ourselves of how good they were beacause of where they were taken in the draft. The fact that the FO was found three guys who can be a starter or one of the first Guys offf the beach is amazing.

Hopefully they and demarre carol can get enough stops so that we’re on having DeRozan or any other player trying to bail us out. I’m really looking forward to see how this team what kind of success this team has. I’ll be happy w a western conference finals visit.

[ZeusWillJudge]

The Vinny Del Negro Special.


Oh, he used to drive me crazy with those shots.

[RC_Drunkford]

The key to DeRozan being efficient is him hitting 3s and making catch and shoots weather those are 2s or 3s. He's not an offball player. By having White and Murray as the PGs that should be the goal

[gambit1990]

only makes sense if the spurs are ultimately willing to trade him.

some team would give up something for DDR. he has some value.

:lol if it’s anywhere near a max extension though.

[duncan2k5]

The reason to do now would only be to get a better than market deal... but what do I know

Better market deal?? He had a bad contract! Why do u think Toronto traded him for a one year rental (aside from the ring... Lol)

[duncan2k5]

The Spurs must value a guy that can give them 20/6/6. That’s not the easiest thing to find in today’s NBA.
Melo was putting up good numbers in his prime tho.... But no one would EVER want him on their team if they had serious aspirations to make noise in the playoffs

[duncan2k5]

Exactly. People are acting like it's Patty, and not the guy who put down 21/6/6. DD isn't my favorite player, or even favorite Spur, but I don't see a lot of options to replace him next summer. Most players won't even take a meeting here. I'd be down with something like LMA's deal: non-max, and 3 years with an option or partial for a 4th.

Getting rid of DDR is addition by subtraction... We have seen this before

[SpursDynasty85]

Better market deal?? He had a bad contract! Why do u think Toronto traded him for a one year rental (aside from the ring... Lol)

They did it for a ring. Too bad they thought Kawhi moghtve gone anywhere else but LA. Some weirdos still think he woildve signed here.

[duncan2k5]

If we could get from under Richard Jefferson and Malik Rose, I think we can get from under a Demar contract within 2-3 years. Chris Paul and the cement contract bound to him was moved and he's a tired old shit bag who is beyond done.

Paul was traded for another bad contract with over inflated stats

[duncan2k5]

If the Spurs offered Murray the max, he would sign today regardless if DeRozan is on the roster. But I struggle to think how the Spurs make the playoffs this year without DeRozen. People hate on the guy, but he's the only guy on the roster that I trust to score in isolation. He might not do it in the playoffs, but he doesn't in the regular season when the Spurs have needed it.

Weade it without him and we are better now than we were then... Additionally I think we are a better team WITHOUT him... There will be less low percentage ISO ball plays and more floor spacing... He is USELESS unless the ball is in his hand

[duncan2k5]

I don't love demars fit on this team but tell me who on this team can average 21/6/6? I love all are young pieces but none of them other then Dwhite imo has showed anything in important moments

That's not hot basketball works... Sometimes teams play better without the inefficient ballhogger (see Melo)

[duncan2k5]

My God...How far have we fallen? Some morons in here are really trying to talk themselves into an aging iso midrange baller as the centerpiece of the team. DeRozan never worked before and he never will. He will never win a title. Nor will he ever come up big in the biggest moments.

This is just the FO trying to save face from the Kawhi deal rather than ending up with nothing, while trying to "do right" by DeRozan by making him feel like he has a home. This doesn't make sense from a basketball standpoint and you PATFO slurpers know it deep down. You know what you thought about him before he was a Spur....Same with LMA and Gay for that matter.

EXACTLY!!! we would be CLOWNING the Mavs if they had him and were considering an extension

[duncan2k5]

If that's the case they may as well package Murray with DeRozan to try to get back a good player. Murray hasn't shown anywhere near enough on the court to get the clout for personnel decisions to be made based off who he likes off the court.

Exactly... Murray is my favorite player... But if keeping him means extending DDR, ship both their asses out

[tonight...you]

That's not hot basketball works... Sometimes teams play better without the inefficient ballhogger (see Melo)
That's a good point.

[Mugen]

Mugen (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15519) get in here and celebrate the good news tbh :lol


:danceclub

:lol Unfortunately, this isn't surprising in the least my dude. I'm just waiting for the Fatty and Forbes mega extensions to pull the trigger tbh.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

That's not hot basketball works... Sometimes teams play better without the inefficient ballhogger (see Melo)

I agree 110%. The dude has 11 years of proof that he will never get a 3 point shot. We have LMA already for midrange, DeRozan is literally useless in pairing him with LMA. I kinda feel bad for :lma bc we never truly built around him. I would love to see the youngsters and Aldridge this year with a free green light to run the show. Murray and White causing havoc on D and Lonnie getting to display his athleticism. Mills and Forbes bringing pace and shooting, Carrol and Gay bringing vet toughness and Poetl roaming the paint like a monster. This team would be a lot more fun to watch and potentially have a higher ceiling.

[TD 21]

This good. Most of ST has their heads really far up their asses (expect for Rob. Obviously he's cool) and think just any old guy the Spurs draft will be an All-Star. Maxing DeRozan would be bad. Giving him a max contract next summer would be worse. But talking about extending the clear second-best player on the team? Yes, duh. Worry about White, Walker or Murray being better than DeMar when they actually get that good. They aren't close yet.

I don't think that and still don't want him extended at any cost because it's not about that. It's about knowing what the ceiling is with him on a team and that his style is not conducive to their growth.

Good is relative. For example, Green obviously isn't nearly as skilled as DeRozan, but you could argue he's a more impactful player. DeRozan is the definition of empty calories.

[FkLA]

"One source who saw DeRozan work out this summer in Los Angeles told The Athletic that his shooting looks improved (https://theathletic.com/1264363/2019/10/04/charanias-inside-pass-derozans-future-with-spurs-siakam-seeking-max-deal/) and his mindset will benefit from a full summer to digest the knowledge gained after a year in Gregg Popovich’s system"

if this is the case give Chip Engeland the super max

The dude probably didn't spend a single day during the Summer in SA. Unless Chip was following him around to LA and Wyoming I doubt he got any work in with him. It all hinges on the work DD himself put in, and based on the depressing ass shit he posts and his track record I'm not holding my breath.

[TimDunkem]

Exactly... Murray is my favorite player... But if keeping him means extending DDR, ship both their asses out

Hell, I remember this forum trashing Toronto fiercely when they had DeRozan and Gay in his prime. Now look where we are. :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

That's not hot basketball works... Sometimes teams play better without the inefficient ballhogger (see Melo)

aw man the biggest faggot of spurstalk is back. Go to the Clippers forum. Nobody was waiting on your input

[duncan2k5]

aw man the biggest faggot of spurstalk is back. Go to the Clippers forum. Nobody was waiting on your input

Compelling insight to the topic... Way to prove me wrong... U seem smart

[phxspurfan]

Hurry up and extend him! I want more spinning layups.

[Dennis the Menace]

Hurry up and extend him! I want more spinning layups.

And first round exits in the playoffs!!

[phxspurfan]

And first round exits in the playoffs!!

We wouldn't make the playoffs without him. Unless you think Mills can drop 26/6/6

[cd98]

Which Spur other than DeRozan has demonstrated that he can create his own shot or a shot for someone else with 5 seconds left on the shot clock?

[Dennis the Menace]

Which Spur other than DeRozan has demonstrated that he can create his own shot or a shot for someone else with 5 seconds left on the shot clock?

Honestly, Rudy or Lonnie.

But your question just points out Brian Wright/RC/Pops roster creation abilities. Or lack thereof

[Genovaswitness]

reminder that we could’ve kept Jonathan Simmons, Dedmond and kawhi but pop is afraid of outspoken black American athletes

[exstatic]

reminder that we could’ve kept Jonathan Simmons, Dedmond and kawhi but pop is afraid of outspoken black American athletes

reminder that Genovaswitness is a fucking idiot.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

You extend him and risk stunting the growth of Lonnie, White and Murray? Shit move per par

[Genovaswitness]

reminder that Genovaswitness is a fucking idiot.

triggered af (as fuck)

[Dejounte]

Honestly, Rudy or Lonnie.

But your question just points out Brian Wright/RC/Pops roster creation abilities. Or lack thereof

Lonnie? Lmfao. How the f has he proven himself

[ginobilized]

DeRozan is a great vet for the younger guys, he obviously meshes well with his teammates.
Not the perfect player for this day in the NBA, but this is SA. We don't get those dudes anyway.
Talking about an extension is a no-brainer right now.

[cd98]

Honestly, Rudy or Lonnie.

But your question just points out Brian Wright/RC/Pops roster creation abilities. Or lack thereof

Honestly, Rudy is at the twilight of his career and we don't even know if Lonnie is going back to the G-League during this next season.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Hopefully the extension is well below a max deal. If the Spurs can sign him to something tradeable, I'm not entirely opposed to this move. He's still the team's second best player.

[KobesAchilles]

reminder that we could’ve kept Jonathan Simmons, Dedmond and kawhi but pop is afraid of outspoken black American athletes
Real talk. Are Simmons and Dedmon still in the league? Last I heard Simmons was shipped out of Orlando and Dedmon couldn’t even get playing time on the fucking hawks. Not exactly the players I would want to keep tbh

[itzsoweezee]

Amazing to see the DeRozan truthers bashing the young guys. I'm definitely taking down names on this one.

By the way, if your argument for extending DDR is that the young guys aren't good enough, you need to point out what benefit DDR is going to provide in the alternative. If you're suggesting that keeping DDR is necessary so that the Spurs get be a first round knockout as the 8 seed for the next 5 years, then own it, you morons.

I'd rather have a rebuilding core with some chance of greatness down the line by rebuilding through the draft or free agency than years of middling incompetence.

[SpursDynasty85]

Amazing to see the DeRozan truthers bashing the young guys. I'm definitely taking down names on this one.

By the way, if your argument for extending DDR is that the young guys aren't good enough, you need to point out what benefit DDR is going to provide in the alternative. If you're suggesting that keeping DDR is necessary so that the Spurs get be a first round knockout as the 8 seed for the next 5 years, then own it, you morons.

I'd rather have a rebuilding core with some chance of greatness down the line by rebuilding through the draft or free agency than years of middling incompetence.

Why are you so sure they are a 8th seed and first round knockout. This young team with DD and LMA could be a middle seed and fight for a conference final berth. Injuries could give us an outside shot to Ship as well. Murray looks poised to be a really good player, Forbes and White are already good and have some playoff experience. This is better than rebuilding since rebuilding means we start at the bottom give young players more minutes but means we pay them more because of stats but gain nothing back in them knowing how to win in the playoffs. The way we do it now is build our young team around some playoff experience and give us an outside shot at making noise. Pretty simple.

[KDKSpurs24]

Why are you so sure they are a 8th seed and first round knockout. This young team with DD and LMA could be a middle seed and fight for a conference final berth. Injuries could give us an outside shot to Ship as well. Murray looks poised to be a really good player, Forbes and White are already good and have some playoff experience. This is better than rebuilding since rebuilding means we start at the bottom give young players more minutes but means we pay them more because of stats but gain nothing back in them knowing how to win in the playoffs. The way we do it now is build our young team around some playoff experience and give us an outside shot at making noise. Pretty simple.
Exactly. He’s talking about rebuilding but at this point I can’t sit through losing seasons. It would be torture. I’m too used to us wining games and making playoffs. I know championships are great and the goal but damn I just can’t take that risk. I wouldn’t abandon the team because I don’t do that but it would take a lot of my joy from watching the NBA and Spurs basketball. I hope we can one day win again but lots of teams have tried to rebuild and have been horrible ever since. It’s too rare. The way that we are currently building is better than the alternative. People should be careful what they ask for because if we trade them and rebuild and start losing most nights people are gonna be complaining more than they are now.

[TimDunkem]

Why are you so sure they are a 8th seed and first round knockout. This young team with DD and LMA could be a middle seed and fight for a conference final berth. Injuries could give us an outside shot to Ship as well. Murray looks poised to be a really good player, Forbes and White are already good and have some playoff experience. This is better than rebuilding since rebuilding means we start at the bottom give young players more minutes but means we pay them more because of stats but gain nothing back in them knowing how to win in the playoffs. The way we do it now is build our young team around some playoff experience and give us an outside shot at making noise. Pretty simple.

You overrate this team. They're a 7th seed at best and not the kind that makes noise, but the kind that gets knocked out in the first round.

Sure, the Spurs are better with Murray this year and maybe Lonnie taking a step forward, but just about every other damn team did too.

[Dennis the Menace]

Lonnie? Lmfao. How the f has he proven himself

I’m saying that Lonnie can create his own shot. Are you arguing that he can’t?

[cd98]

Amazing to see the DeRozan truthers bashing the young guys. I'm definitely taking down names on this one.

By the way, if your argument for extending DDR is that the young guys aren't good enough, you need to point out what benefit DDR is going to provide in the alternative. If you're suggesting that keeping DDR is necessary so that the Spurs get be a first round knockout as the 8 seed for the next 5 years, then own it, you morons.

I'd rather have a rebuilding core with some chance of greatness down the line by rebuilding through the draft or free agency than years of middling incompetence.

Yes, but the same holds true for you. If the young guys never mature into players that are as good as DDR, then you give up the chance to make the playoffs to "develop" players that never pan out. Spurs have drafted some gems, but they've also drafted a lot of role players. If the young guys are all just role player level, then trading DDR would be a dumb move.

[cd98]

Why are you so sure they are a 8th seed and first round knockout. This young team with DD and LMA could be a middle seed and fight for a conference final berth. Injuries could give us an outside shot to Ship as well. Murray looks poised to be a really good player, Forbes and White are already good and have some playoff experience. This is better than rebuilding since rebuilding means we start at the bottom give young players more minutes but means we pay them more because of stats but gain nothing back in them knowing how to win in the playoffs. The way we do it now is build our young team around some playoff experience and give us an outside shot at making noise. Pretty simple.

If this year is like last year, the difference between the 8th seed and the 2nd seed could be like 6 games.

[cd98]

I’m saying that Lonnie can create his own shot. Are you arguing that he can’t?

I hope he can, but to this point, we only know he can do it against summer league competition. Lots of guys can dominate that level and get to the NBA with better defenders and better team defense and they can shut down a young, inexperienced player. Lonnie is raw. No guarantee he's going to mature into a shot creating/scorer in a month or even in the next 5 years.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

reminder that we could’ve kept Jonathan Simmons, Dedmond and kawhi but pop is afraid of outspoken black American athletes

How exactly is Kawhi outspoken??? Dude is a fvcking mute. His only opinion rests upon Uncle fvcking up his finances.

And Jonathan Simmons sucks, that's why he's not a Spur.

I like people pretending that they understand Pop's motivation to keep a player.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yes, but the same holds true for you. If the young guys never mature into players that are as good as DDR, then you give up the chance to make the playoffs to "develop" players that never pan out. Spurs have drafted some gems, but they've also drafted a lot of role players. If the young guys are all just role player level, then trading DDR would be a dumb move.

it's pretty clear that at least 2 of them, maybe even 4, have a much higher ceiling than being role players

[cd98]

it's pretty clear that at least 2 of them, maybe even 4, have a much higher ceiling than being role players

We’ll see. I hope so. No guarantees any will be better than DDR. I’m sure he won’t be in the way of their development. Pop has a deep rotation. If a player does well, he’ll get minutes. I don’t know if you extend DDR or not. But a trade will bring back less value than DDR and if he’s gone Spurs won’t make the playoffs. And if Spurs wait to resign and he has a great year, he’s gone.

[tonight...you]

The dude probably didn't spend a single day during the Summer in SA. Unless Chip was following him around to LA and Wyoming I doubt he got any work in with him. It all hinges on the work DD himself put in, and based on the depressing ass shit he posts and his track record I'm not holding my breath.
Chip does follow their players around, but... like you, I'm not holding my breath either.

[tonight...you]

You overrate this team. They're a 7th seed at best and not the kind that makes noise, but the kind that gets knocked out in the first round.

Sure, the Spurs are better with Murray this year and maybe Lonnie taking a step forward, but just about every other damn team did too.
The West has so many good teams this year...
Spurs have a tough road to hoe.

[DejuanorwhatDude]

Amazing to see the DeRozan truthers bashing the young guys. I'm definitely taking down names on this one.

By the way, if your argument for extending DDR is that the young guys aren't good enough, you need to point out what benefit DDR is going to provide in the alternative. If you're suggesting that keeping DDR is necessary so that the Spurs get be a first round knockout as the 8 seed for the next 5 years, then own it, you morons.

All of this.

I'd rather have a rebuilding core with some chance of greatness down the line by rebuilding through the draft or free agency than years of middling incompetence.

[Genovaswitness]

I wonder if nipsey hussle watches spurs games from heaven

[RC_Drunkford]

We’ll see. I hope so. No guarantees any will be better than DDR. I’m sure he won’t be in the way of their development. Pop has a deep rotation. If a player does well, he’ll get minutes. I don’t know if you extend DDR or not. But a trade will bring back less value than DDR and if he’s gone Spurs won’t make the playoffs. And if Spurs wait to resign and he has a great year, he’s gone.

DeRozan is a great mentor for Murray, White and Walker. It makes sense to have his contract expire when they have to resign Walker. I think that's the plan. It all depends on how much he'll get paid and if he's shooting 3s

[bigfan]

If the price is right, do it. He's a very good player regardless of the some of the comments above.

[james evans]

I knew it. Popovich is purposely destroying this team for when he leaves.

[YGWHI]

Lowry got $31/1 year extension. I just need to know that our new GM thinks that type of contract is too much expensive.

[exstatic]

Lowry got $31/1 year extension. I just need to know that our new GM thinks that type of contract is too much expensive.

GMs only do what owners will allow, financially. It's the reason that Harden plays for Houston now, and not OKC.

[baseline bum]

At least make DeRozan prove he can stay on the same floor as Murray before giving him another boatload of money. If he's going to shoot 15.6% from the three this year there is no way he can play with Murray and one of them will have to go.

[Mugen]

I wonder if nipsey hussle watches spurs games from heaven

:lol

[YGWHI]

GMs only do what owners will allow, financially. It's the reason that Harden plays for Houston now, and not OKC.

In young Holts we trust. :pop:

[SAGirl]

Ugghhh. I suppose he has some trade value but that’s not happening most likely.

[tmtcsc]

Lowry got $31/1 year extension. I just need to know that our new GM thinks that type of contract is too much expensive.

Same GM that just gave Rudy Gay 32 Million ? After that non-existent playoff performance?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3orifhNhn840GpMMPm/giphy.gif

[UZER]

I’m saying that Lonnie can create his own shot. Are you arguing that he can’t?

He can’t create shots when his ass is on the bench.

His injury set him back an entire year in Pops imaginary rookie prison.

[TimDunkem]

He can’t create shots when his ass is on the bench.

His injury set him back an entire year in Pops imaginary rookie prison.

Sad truth, tbh. It happens every year. Unless you're a Kawhi/Manu/TP type of talent, you're not going to see the floor often until your second year. And, if you're injured like Lonnie was his rookie season, you probably won't get regular minutes until year 3.

[exstatic]

Same GM that just gave Rudy Gay 32 Million ? After that non-existent playoff performance?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3orifhNhn840GpMMPm/giphy.gif

It's not $32M, it's 2/$28M, and that's the back end payoff for 2/$18M for his first and second season. If you total the four years, it's $46M, or a bit over $11M per for a stretch 4 who can play today's game.

People still bitch about Parker's last contract, saying he was overpaid. I'll stipulate that he was, but that was also a back end payoff for his first post-rookie contract. Spurs got him for 6/$66M just when he exploded into being an All Star and Finals MVP, and when he could have had as much as $90-95M. That deferral allowed them to continue to MAX Tim, and also pay Manu, but make no mistake, it WAS a deferral. Small market teams have an easier time if they smooth the costs, underpaying early, and overpaying later.

[SAGirl]

Apparently the team has until 6/30 next year to get an extension signed.
https://twitter.com/paulgarcianba/status/1186406935270178817?s=21

[LkrFan]

https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/1186660270602641408?s=19

Damn. Get err done RC :lmao

[TimDunkem]

Don't worry, guys. The Spurs will find a way to get him a loyalty deal.

[Dennis the Menace]

https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/1186660270602641408?s=19

Damn. Get err done RC :lmao

As far as I’m concerned this is a contract year for Derozan and he’ll need to play like it is. $150 million/ 4 years?? Haha no way

[BatManu20]

DeMar wants to get paid like a top-5 SG when he’s not one tbh. I think he opts our next Summer and tests the waters.

[MultiTroll]

Apparently the team has until 6/30 next year to get an extension signed.
https://twitter.com/paulgarcianba/status/1186406935270178817?s=21



As far as I’m concerned this is a contract year for Derozan and he’ll need to play like it is. $150 million/ 4 years?? Haha no way
Exactly so just let him put in some effort and thereby up any trade value he might have left.

If they extend him it's the end of the slightest hope for a return to a Championship.

[RC_Drunkford]

like I said the Knicks and Raptors will be desperate and will offer him the max without hesitation

[BackHome]

I like DEROZZ as a player and person I just think he does not fit with the Spurs style and the players we have right now. Also I am pretty sure he will either go back to Raptors or end up back in Cali somehow.

The question I have is then what do we do with his position who do we go after who do we want to sign to make our team playoff ready?

[Dennis the Menace]

Exactly so just let him put in some effort and thereby up any trade value he might have left.

If they extend him it's the end of the slightest hope for a return to a Championship.

If Derozan opts out next summer then the Spurs potentially traded a Top 15 player of all time for nothing. Derozan would leave with no return, Poetl could leave for more money in RFA if Spurs don’t match.

If you know you aren’t going to come to an agreement then trade him before the trade deadline in February for picks or players

Only reason you wouldn’t trade him before deadline is if you think the Spurs could ring this year with him.

[Genovaswitness]

I like DEROZZ as a player and person I just think he does not fit with the Spurs style and the players we have right now. Also I am pretty sure he will either go back to Raptors or end up back in Cali somehow.

The question I have is then what do we do with his position who do we go after who do we want to sign to make our team playoff ready?

any of our guards, Mills included, would do better than derozan at the 2 for the $ they’ll take up. glad to hear he’s a fucking retard on top of being a basket case.

He’s not worth anything close to the max :lmao

[Genovaswitness]

If Derozan opts out next summer then the Spurs potentially traded a Top 15 player of all time for nothing. Derozan would leave with no return, Poetl could leave for more money in RFA if Spurs don’t match.

If you know you aren’t going to come to an agreement then trade him before the trade deadline in February for picks or players

Only reason you wouldn’t trade him before deadline is if you think the Spurs could ring this year with him.


Sunk cost fallacy ftw. we kept pops playoff streak alive that’s why the trade was done. cut the cord now, no use in making the trade worse than it was by extending this fuckhead

[itzsoweezee]

Sunk cost fallacy ftw. we kept pops playoff streak alive that’s why the trade was done. cut the cord now, no use in making the trade worse than it was by extending this fuckhead

Exactly. The quote reflects exactly the type of thinking that gets teams stuck with underproductive players taking up a huge amounts of capspace because they don't want to let a player go "for nothing".

[itzsoweezee]

If Derozan opts out next summer then the Spurs potentially traded a Top 15 player of all time for nothing. Derozan would leave with no return, Poetl could leave for more money in RFA if Spurs don’t match.

If you know you aren’t going to come to an agreement then trade him before the trade deadline in February for picks or players

Only reason you wouldn’t trade him before deadline is if you think the Spurs could ring this year with him.

Yes, they absolutely should trade him. It is the only reasonable move. It's obvious they couldn't come to a deal. The only possible outcomes are: (1) DeRozan has a "good" contact year and expects a huge payday after the season (absolutely not worth it) or (2) DeRozan is unimproved from last year (in which case, he's just talking up playing time from the younger dudes who need to develop)

[Dennis the Menace]

Exactly. The quote reflects exactly the type of thinking that gets teams stuck with underproductive players taking up a huge amounts of capspace because they don't want to let a player go "for nothing".

I’m down for great draft picks, that doesn’t eat space. Really only would be open to actual developed players if they are someone you’d love to have but probably wouldn’t be able to woo in free agency

I’d take the Spurs drafting & developing over a player 1-3 years in the league getting shitty development that you like

[exstatic]

If Derozan opts out next summer then the Spurs potentially traded a Top 15 player of all time for nothing. Derozan would leave with no return, Poetl could leave for more money in RFA if Spurs don’t match.

If you know you aren’t going to come to an agreement then trade him before the trade deadline in February for picks or players

Only reason you wouldn’t trade him before deadline is if you think the Spurs could ring this year with him.

So? Toronto has no player assets to show for that trade NOW. We have both Poeltl and Keldon. If you're bitching about their title, we rented on from Kawhi, too, for the cost of a #29 draft pick, George Hill. That's a lot less than Toronto paid for theirs.

[FkLA]

Not too surprised that DD is the type of sensitive fake star that wants to be paid like a real star so that he can keep believing he's a real star. But I would be pleasantly surprised if PATFO doesn't budge and gets him to stay on a friendlier deal or just trades him/let's him walk. :tu

[Dennis the Menace]

So? Toronto has no player assets to show for that trade NOW. We have both Poeltl and Keldon. If you're bitching about their title, we rented on from Kawhi, too, for the cost of a #29 draft pick, George Hill. That's a lot less than Toronto paid for theirs.

Preferred a Paul George return scenario (multiple 1st round picks). Spurs can draft & develop. Was hoping they would maximize what they do best

Im thinking they could get some good draft selections for Derozan

[Mugen]

Oh no - better ship his ass out then I guess....

[exstatic]

Preferred a Paul George return scenario (multiple 1st round picks). Spurs can draft & develop. Was hoping they would maximize what they do best

Im thinking they could get some good draft selections for Derozan

PG13 was locked up for three years. Kawhi and DD both had/have one year left with SA. You're not getting much for that.

[CGD]

Then might as well trade LMA too.
LMA blazer reunion—> Whiteside (immediately waived), Little, and a first

I struggle to find the trade partner for DeRozen though.

[exstatic]

Then might as well trade LMA too.
LMA blazer reunion—> Whiteside (immediately waived), Little, and a first

I struggle to find the trade partner for DeRozen though.

You struggle at a lot of things. The Spurs would never trade for either Whiteside or Little. Whiteside is a headcase who makes FAR too much to just waive, and throw away $27M. Nassir Little is a cocaine user who was busted last year, and rolled on his boyz. If they wanted Little's coke snorting ass on the roster, they would have drafted him, and not had to eat $27M in the process.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

if demar doesnt improve he will merely be the spurs second (arguably tied with first) best player

[timtonymanu]

Demar gonna fool PATFO into extending him, I see it happening

[KimmyGib]

Will be funny when DDR is traded to the Lakers for for Danny Green

[raybies]

Will be funny when DDR is traded to the Lakers for for Danny Green
won't get it done... would have to include poodle

[cd021]

Starting to think that he opts in to next season, there is really only one team that would likely pursue him (Charlotte) because of Jordowner.

Not all bad; gives the Spurs an extra year of DDR, LMA and Gay then, possibly, let the three of them walk after next season.

[sasaint]

Starting to think that he opts in to next season, there is really only one team that would likely pursue him (Charlotte) because of Jordowner.

Not all bad; gives the Spurs an extra year of DDR, LMA and Gay then, possibly, let the three of them walk after next season.

I can’t see Pop allowing the three of them to walk. But hopefully that decision will be up to somebody else.

[cd021]

I can’t see Pop allowing the three of them to walk. But hopefully that decision will be up to somebody else.

Probably, but LMA, DeRozan and Gay will turn 36, 33, and 34 in the 2021 off season. LMA will probably head back to Portland, and DDR will be a UFA and have more options. Gay may be done by then. Walker will heading into year 4, he will likely be ready to start by then. KJ and Samanic will heading into year 3, hopefully they'll be ready to step into rotation roles too.

[sasaint]

Probably, but LMA, DeRozan and Gay will turn 36, 33, and 34 in the 2021 off season. LMA will probably head back to Portland, and DDR will be a UFA and have more options. Gay may be done by then. Walker will heading into year 4, he will likely be ready to start by then. KJ and Samanic will heading into year 3, hopefully they'll be ready to step into rotation roles too.

Beyond the ages you cite, my crystal ball is not nearly as clear as yours. I hope Dumbmar is gone before then. And I have no idea whether the young guys will be Spurs, much less starters/rotation players.

[ceperez]

Spurs can't afford him. They still have to sign White, Forbes and Poetl for next year.

They got Carroll and K.Johnson just in case he doesn't sign up.

[mo7888]

I agree with the people saying we should trade him. Toronto is tough but, if they really want him back I'd take OG, a pick, and a contract to balance the numbers. I don't really see a Knicks package that would make sense for them though. I'm sure there will be more teams interested in January.

[Prime BEEF]

Trade DeRozan/Forbes to Orlando for Gordon/Augustin

don’t think any team will want Mills or Marco in a trade. We’re stuck with them.

[GusT15]

Trade DeRozan/Forbes to Orlando for Gordon/Augustin

don’t think any team will want Mills or Marco in a trade. We’re stuck with them.

Give it a couple of months,Philly will want one or both of them by then.

(I still don't think PATFO will trade Beli.I won't even comment on if they'd trade Mills.Patty has an unofficial lifetime contract with the Spurs.)

[FkLA]

Trade DeRozan/Forbes to Orlando for Gordon/Augustin

I'd even do DD/Forbes for just Gordon, tbh.

[cd021]

Spurs can't afford him. They still have to sign White, Forbes and Poetl for next year.

They got Carroll and K.Johnson just in case he doesn't sign up.

Long term, probably could, it just depends on LMA and Gay and whether they'll be here after next season. Also White isn't a RFA in the off-season, Jakob is and Forbes is a UFA but the Spurs have full bird rights on him.

[look_at_g_shred]

We have a gluttony of guards. Ship out the ones who don't make this team better (DDR/Mills/Beli) for front court help.

[cd021]

Trade DeRozan/Forbes to Orlando for Gordon/Augustin

don’t think any team will want Mills or Marco in a trade. We’re stuck with them.


I'd even do DD/Forbes for just Gordon, tbh.

I think DDR is better than Gordon so I don't get moving another starter with DeRozan to try and seal the deal with Orlando.

[jermaine]

We have a gluttony of guards. Ship out the ones who don't make this team better (DDR/Mills/Beli) for front court help.

I love all three of them, but if I had to choose itll be DDR. He's to emotional. He turns the ball over to much an when he's missing, he misses everything. patty is a damn good hype man an Marco can still shoot lights out. Lonnie also makes DDR the odd man out.

[look_at_g_shred]

I love all three of them, but if I had to choose itll be DDR. He's to emotional. He turns the ball over to much an when he's missing, he misses everything. patty is a damn good hype man an Marco can still shoot lights out. Lonnie also makes DDR the odd man out.
Lonnie actually makes Beli expendable.

[exstatic]

Long term, probably could, it just depends on LMA and Gay and whether they'll be here after next season. Also White isn't a RFA in the off-season, Jakob is and Forbes is a UFA but the Spurs have full bird rights on him.

Spurs fully guaranteed LMA's 2020-2021 salary a day or so ago. If they were considering moving him, his partial guarantee would have been more attractive than his full salary. He's here for this season and next.

[cd021]

Spurs fully guaranteed LMA's 2020-2021 salary a day or so ago. If they were considering moving him, his partial guarantee would have been more attractive than his full salary. He's here for this season and next.

I know, I meant after the 20-21 season when both Gay and LMA are officially up. White, Forbes and Poelt's new deal won't overlap with their current ones unless one or both of LMA and Gay are brought back.

Ceperez mentioned that the Spurs wouldn't be able to afford DDR, they actually could though and I still think it's increasingly likely he opts in considering there really isn't another team that can pay him more than that $27.6 and that would.

[sasaint]

Trade DeRozan/Forbes to Orlando for Gordon/Augustin

don’t think any team will want Mills or Marco in a trade. We’re stuck with them.

I don't like the deal. Forbes is actually one of our most important players. He is too important to the team to toss away in a Dumbmar trade without getting a 3-ball threat for Dumbmar and Forbes both in return.

[CGD]

I agree with the people saying we should trade him. Toronto is tough but, if they really want him back I'd take OG, a pick, and a contract to balance the numbers. I don't really see a Knicks package that would make sense for them though. I'm sure there will be more teams interested in January.


I agree, but I’m struggling to find the team that would want him. Would have to be Blazers or Heat type team that come Jan will feel they are a piece away. I also wonder if Dallas over performs with their young duo whether they talk themselves into adding a vet to up their chances this and next year.

[mo7888]

I agree, but I’m struggling to find the team that would want him. Would have to be Blazers or Heat type team that come Jan will feel they are a piece away. I also wonder if Dallas over performs with their young duo whether they talk themselves into adding a vet to up their chances this and next year.

I agree with you on it being hard to find a fit. I don't see Toronto really wanting him. Teams that I think 'might' be in play are Orlando, Miami, Charlotte, and Minnesota. Boston might get interested depending on how their season starts off. I think all of those 1st for I mentioned could put together interesting packages if they are so inclined.

[Chomag]

Somebody is going to want that expiring in sure

[CGD]

I agree with you on it being hard to find a fit. I don't see Toronto really wanting him. Teams that I think 'might' be in play are Orlando, Miami, Charlotte, and Minnesota. Boston might get interested depending on how their season starts off. I think all of those 1st for I mentioned could put together interesting packages if they are so inclined.

The other team I wonder about is Detroit if they feel they have a shot at a 7-8 playoff slot again. They need to put butts In seats. Package around Seku, pick(s), and filler (e.g., Snell) maybe?

[mo7888]

The other team I wonder about is Detroit if they feel they have a shot at a 7-8 playoff slot again. They need to put butts In seats. Package around Seku, pick(s), and filler (e.g., Snell) maybe?

I could see that if the spurs are interested in expiring contracts and cap space. I think we'd prefer a useful player for this season in the package. Detroit might be able to provide that if they bring in a 3rd team to the trade.

[GusT15]

I could see that if the spurs are interested in expiring contracts and cap space. I think we'd prefer a useful player for this season in the package. Detroit might be able to provide that if they bring in a 3rd team to the trade.

3 team trade via OKC.
Reunite DDR with Casey.He can be Griffin's #2 and an Allstar again in the East.
Apply picks (2nd rnd) wherever needed as incentive.

https://i.ibb.co/tbjY8P8/DDR-Trade.jpg

[cd021]

3 team trade via OKC.
Reunite DDR with Casey.He can be Griffin's #2 and an Allstar again in the East.
Apply picks (2nd rnd) wherever needed as incentive.

https://i.ibb.co/tbjY8P8/DDR-Trade.jpg

I could see Detroit doing that deal and the Spurs were definitely looking at taking Sekou.

Galo would be a good fit but OKC giving up Galo, for a second and 2 expirings? No chance they'd do that deal unless a first is attached.

[mo7888]

3 team trade via OKC.
Reunite DDR with Casey.He can be Griffin's #2 and an Allstar again in the East.
Apply picks (2nd rnd) wherever needed as incentive.

https://i.ibb.co/tbjY8P8/DDR-Trade.jpg

I'd do that in a heartbeat but, someone will have to give something to okc to incentivize them to do that deal. We'd also have to either include Metu or waive him to have the roster spots.

[CGD]

3 team trade via OKC.
Reunite DDR with Casey.He can be Griffin's #2 and an Allstar again in the East.
Apply picks (2nd rnd) wherever needed as incentive.

https://i.ibb.co/tbjY8P8/DDR-Trade.jpg

Not bad. OKC should be more than happy to flip Gallo for a 1st at this point (especially if they flip Paul separately). I actually think the Spurs would need more in that deal with Gallo expiring.

[Bballplaya]

Gotta keep DDR. He’s our best offensive threat. Can force other defenses to double-team. LMA is good but less of a threat is than DDR.

Murray is a good defensive player, can play the passing lanes and is an excellent rebounder. But he’s not close to having the same skill-Set as DDR.

I wouldn’t extend a max dollar offer to DDR. Only max years

[Leetonidas]

3 team trade via OKC.
Reunite DDR with Casey.He can be Griffin's #2 and an Allstar again in the East.
Apply picks (2nd rnd) wherever needed as incentive.

https://i.ibb.co/tbjY8P8/DDR-Trade.jpg

Why on earth would OKC do this?

[CGD]

Why on earth would OKC do this?

Umm, they net picks for expiring Gallo without taking long term salary back? They aren’t keeping him beyond this year anyway .

[Genovaswitness]

Gotta keep DDR. He’s our best offensive threat. Can force other defenses to double-team. LMA is good but less of a threat is than DDR.

Murray is a good defensive player, can play the passing lanes and is an excellent rebounder. But he’s not close to having the same skill-Set as DDR.

I wouldn’t extend a max dollar offer to DDR. Only max years

Nobody is double teaming demar are you huffing paint :lmao

[Bballplaya]

Nobody is double teaming demar are you huffing paint :lmao

not double team him initially as he touches the ball but after dribble-penetration. Spurs have no one else that creates a threat. I’d left murray or anybody else force to shoot.

[FkLA]

https://m.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/articleComments/DeRozan-opens-up-on-HBO-about-dark-days-after-14564606.php

This faggot needs to get over it already. They won a ring without him. They've annointed Siakam their new franchise guy. Like seriously, how long is this faggot going to keep talking about the day he got traded? Fucking soft pussy.

I remember wondering why he was so quiet after the trade though. Why it had been like a week and he hadn't posted anything about his next chapter as a Spur. This explains it.

[GusT15]

Why on earth would OKC do this?

Actually OKC wouldn't do that cause i didn't take care of the most important thing for them-their tax line.:lol

So,flip Galloway for the expiring corpse of Thon Maker,OKC stays under tax,Detroit provides a 2nd pick as well for keeping Galloway,OKC gets 3 2nds (or one 2nd and a 1st).
You incentivize them.They'll tank anyway.

[RC_Drunkford]

Gallo is definitely my target in the upcoming offseason. But no need to give up any assets when he's an expiring anyway

[cd021]

Not bad. OKC should be more than happy to flip Gallo for a 1st at this point (especially if they flip Paul separately). I actually think the Spurs would need more in that deal with Gallo expiring.

Sekou, unloading DDR, and getting Galo- who got a lot of all star consideration and fits better with the Spurs than DeRozan does for first. It's a no-brainer to add a first IMO.

[R. DeMurre]

https://m.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/articleComments/DeRozan-opens-up-on-HBO-about-dark-days-after-14564606.php

This faggot needs to get over it already. They won a ring without him. They've annointed Siakam their new franchise guy. Like seriously, how long is this faggot going to keep talking about the day he got traded? Fucking soft pussy.

I remember wondering why he was so quiet after the trade though. Why it had been like a week and he hadn't posted anything about his next chapter as a Spur. This explains it.

I agree he has a seriously lack of perspective... he's getting paid <<28 Million dollars>> this year, he'll probably retire in his 30s, never need to work another day in his life, can easily move back to Toronto & reunite with friends. He's treating it like he's been told he has 6 months to live.

[daslicer]

I agree he has a seriously lack of perspective... he's getting paid <<28 Million dollars>> this year, he'll probably retire in his 30s, never need to work another day in his life, can easily move back to Toronto & reunite with friends. He's treating it like he's been told he has 6 months to live.

Agreed but he's no different than the majority of these players. A lot of these guys have zero perspective of how good they have it.

[itzsoweezee]

not double team him initially as he touches the ball but after dribble-penetration. Spurs have no one else that creates a threat. I’d left murray or anybody else force to shoot.

Dribble penetration? Lol. Have you watched DeMar play basketball? Dribble penetration is not his game. Every possession is DeMar using his pseudo-kobe footwork to force his way into a stupid turnaround mid-range jumper. Dude is TRASH

[FkLA]

I agree he has a seriously lack of perspective... he's getting paid <<28 Million dollars>> this year, he'll probably retire in his 30s, never need to work another day in his life, can easily move back to Toronto & reunite with friends. He's treating it like he's been told he has 6 months to live.

I don't even think Toronto wants him back any time soon either. Siakam is already better and you just know DeRozan would walk in there thinking it's his team. If what has transpired hasn't motivated to transform his ugly ass game nothing will. They'll probably take him back at the end of his career on a limited role.

[TimDunkem]

Dribble penetration? Lol. Have you watched DeMar play basketball? Dribble penetration is not his game. Every possession is DeMar using his pseudo-kobe footwork to force his way into a stupid turnaround mid-range jumper. Dude is TRASH

Lmao These fluffers don't watch the games. If they did then they would know Depression's signature move is to dribble into the middle of the paint just to maneuver into an ugly fadeaway. Dribble penetration doesn't mean much when over half the time you're wasting it on a fadeaway.

[Ocotillo]

https://m.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/articleComments/DeRozan-opens-up-on-HBO-about-dark-days-after-14564606.php

This faggot needs to get over it already. They won a ring without him. They've annointed Siakam their new franchise guy. Like seriously, how long is this faggot going to keep talking about the day he got traded? Fucking soft pussy.

I remember wondering why he was so quiet after the trade though. Why it had been like a week and he hadn't posted anything about his next chapter as a Spur. This explains it.
Thing is, this sort of stuff impacts his trade value too. What team will want to risk where his head will be if they were to trade for him?

[ducks]

Trade him for russel on Gs
Kerr owes pop a favor

[Bballplaya]

Lmao These fluffers don't watch the games. If they did then they would know Depression's signature move is to dribble into the middle of the paint just to maneuver into an ugly fadeaway. Dribble penetration doesn't mean much when over half the time you're wasting it on a fadeaway.
Watched every game for over 30 years and still
playing. You might wannna rewatch the last three possessions on the offensive side. FYI offensive side. Means we have the ball. I’ll send pic of what. Basketball looks like if need me.

[Bballplaya]

Lmao These fluffers don't watch the games. If they did then they would know Depression's signature move is to dribble into the middle of the paint just to maneuver into an ugly fadeaway. Dribble penetration doesn't mean much when over half the time you're wasting it on a fadeaway.
Watched every game for over 30 years and still
playing. You might wannna rewatch the last three possessions on the offensive side. FYI offensive side. Means we have the ball. I’ll send pic of what. Basketball looks like if need me.

[jehawk81]

Is there a chance DeRozan ends up in Lala Land with Kawhi?? Crazy if somehow that happens

[timvp]

Watched every game for over 30 years and still
playing. You might wannna rewatch the last three possessions on the offensive side. FYI offensive side. Means we have the ball. I’ll send pic of what. Basketball looks like if need me.

http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/4WnyHXu7GUC1G/giphy.gif

[spurraider21]

Gallo is definitely my target in the upcoming offseason. But no need to give up any assets when he's an expiring anyway
do we have cap room to sign him outright? if we have to ship out DDR to get it done, may as well acquire him in the same deal. that may necessitate giving up a pick, but im ok with that