Grades: Spurs @ Timberwolves - Nov. 27, 2019

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-minnesota-timberwolves-november-27-2019/

tl;dr: Happy Thanksgiving, Lonnie Walker IV played.

[tbdog]

Forbes must be an F. It was a failure of a game. I didn't like Gay this game. White does look injured and Spurs can't afford to rest him (how sad). Walker must get minutes now. There will be more good than bad, so let's go with more Walker.

[vavvi]

There are things to get excited about here and there but we keep loosing and loosing and loosing. Such an unfamiliar feeling

[Fireball]

its the three pointers ... any player of the Timberwolves seemed to be able to hit the three why the Spurs cannot buy one ... especially at home this should not happen

[Truth4sale$]

Thanks Timvp.
Another sad and disappointing loss to a team the Spurs should have won against. Do we wait for 10 more games and call time of death? Popvich is not even attempting to find lineup changes. Its same ol guys , and same results.
Time to play the youngers guys because the vets are not playing like they are interested. Can Popovich start Waker over Forbes now. He played great. When Forbes came in the rally was over. I still say DeRozan should be coming off th bench so his isolation game can flourish, and can guard second tier players.

[acoelho1]

Why are we assuming this is just a slump? Perhaps, this is who we are based on the players that are getting most of the minutes. It’s beyond time to infuse more youth into the rotation and play faster with Murray pushing it.

[sananspursfan21]

Ugh. The T’Pups are good, but this was such a winnable game. But hey, LONNIE!!

[rascal]

Losing is winning for the Spurs. Get that high draft pick for next year. They should have lost more last year too. Need better players on the roster.

[Spurs Homer]

Duh -

only EVERYONE here can see that Lonnie needs playing time - except Pop -


hopefully Pop doesn't go back to his head games with Lonnie and slows the process even further.

Players - need playing time. Lonnie and Metu have tons of potential but there will be growing pains -

much better to throw them out now and see what happens by the end of the season -
the playoffs will not be possible the way things are going - so just throw them out there.

Gay and Dejounte and White - are perennially gimpy so moderating their playing time to give the rookies a shot is a win-win.
LMA & DDR - do a lot of coasting - so trimming their playing time will keep them fresh for a late push and will keep them a little worried (hungry) about losing their minutes.

Beli and Forbes in spot minutes might spark the team instead of kill the team every time they are depended on to carry a full load. Patty as a spark plug and sniper is his comfort zone.

Maybe Timmy can coax old man Pop into some fresher thinking.

[GAustex]

As I watched Walker clearly being the fastest player on the court I imagined
Walker, Murray, DDR, Jakcob, and I guess Gay or Lyles get some run. They might be able to run some effective fast breaks.

[Mugen]

Pop with the passing grade :lol

[John B]

I thought it was a winnable game had Spurs 3pts went in. If Forbes’ shots are not hoing in, why leave him out there? It’s a breath of fresh air to see Walker with extended minutes, and not just garbage time. And he delivered big time. That was a sight to see him running with Murray. I hope it continues. Take some of Forbes’ minutes and ALL of Marco’s minutes too. Why didn’t Caroll play? His 3pts could’ve fallen. What’s so hard with Spurs’ plays these days anyways. It’s not like the ball is moving. More like Aldridge/Demar iso. I hope Nephew visiting inspires these guys to step up and continue from there. I didn’t want to think I wasted once again my money on League Pass. Happy thanksgiving y’all. :bobo

[FkLA]

I knew Shitinelli being completely out of the rotation was too good to be true. I said after the Lakers game that it would not surprise me if Pop went right back to him the next game and sure enough he did. Watch him be the first SG/SF off the bench against the Clippers too.

Lonnie's improvement on defense is great to see though. I remember watching him in Summer League thinking "he's never going to be a good defender". His instincts seemed off and his feet didn't look to be the quickest. Looks completely different now. A less stubborn, vet loving coach would sic him on Nephew or PG next game, imo.

[DPG21920]

Stretches of competence in coaching and it resulted in a close game when those lineups were in. Then back to the well and back to the L’s.

[Leetonidas]

Game was lost in the 2nd quarter when Pop retardedly decided to go with Beli/Forbes for long stretches. Wolves created separation that quarter and spurs were never able to make up the ground. Pop still losing games with retarded rotations smh.

[monty4329]

Wolves starters: 133 minutes, 10-25 from 3s: 30 points
Spurs starters: 135 minutes, 3-15 from 3s: 9 points.

But we don't need shooters...

[KobesAchilles]

White is clearly hurt and needs to be shut down. But I like White taking 6 threes last night. Even though he only made 1 of em, the fact that he took 6 threes is big for me.

Murray needs to take more than 2 threes a game. Idc that he airballed one of them. We need more volume from him and confidence that he will take them.

Lonnie needs minutes. We aren’t winning shit anyways so this whole he isn’t good enough on D or doesn’t know the system doesn’t mean shit when we are losing so much. Get him reps and see what you have and what he needs to build on. It’s too hard to say everything. Evaluate his strengths and weaknesses in actual games.

As for losing so much, I called it in the beginning of the year. Accept that this is Pops last year guys and enjoy the ride. It’s been a hell of a run and we are witnessing a legend go out on his terms.

[Mugen]

Wolves starters: 133 minutes, 10-25 from 3s: 30 points
Spurs starters: 135 minutes, 3-15 from 3s: 9 points.

But we don't need shooters...

Lonnie wasn't too bad for a guy that doesn't belong in the league eh, moronty?

[Mugen]

:lol Still, Happy Thanksgiving to OP and the rest of the burrito brains on this site. There isn't a bigger group of degenerates that I would want to commiserate more with on the internet tbh.

-Your favorite Edgelord.

[monty4329]

Lonnie wasn't too bad for a guy that doesn't belong in the league eh, moronty?

No he wasn't, and I am happy for him especially if it will land him a Simmons contract later on. Weìll see more of him and Metu next 5 months
Meantime... the same night, in the real NBA world of non-tanking teams, pick #20 of last draft went for 5-5, 3+3 from 3s, 4 stl, 2 blk.

[Sugus]

No he wasn't, and I am happy for him especially if it will land him a Simmons contract later on. Weìll see more of him and Metu next 5 months
Meantime... the same night, in the real NBA world of non-tanking teams, pick #20 of last draft went for 5-5, 3+3 from 3s, 4 stl, 2 blk.

Refreshing to see someone in this forum owning their stupid takes, tbh :tu

[spurs10]

This was an excellent article. On Thanksgiving I'm thankful for this dead-on assessment of another L. I was disappointed to see Beli off the bench again doing what he does 'missing shots and offering no defense.'

My question for everyone is, 'What's the story?' Early on I thought no way would the Spurs not be trying to win. Especially at home where fans are buying tickets. While I didn't expect us to win this tough 3 game home stand, I am not convinced with Forbes in the staring lineup and Marco first off the bench that winning is that big of a deal right now. Armchair quarterbacking aside, are we just playing for a lottery pick or are we trying to make the playoffs? There was a lot of effort last night, the fix wasn't in. I'm just unsure how serious we are about winning in the first place.

[Coach X]

There are things to get excited about here and there but we keep loosing and loosing and loosing. Such an unfamiliar feeling
100% agree

First half the team looked lost, sad and even desperated. There is still collective offensive game without selfishness that tells us the team isn't broken yet. Some defensive plays here and there as well but the truth is the Spurs hardly can beat anybody these days.

IMO, the team won't improve until our PGs play better. Murray and White are playing so poorly. They are playing without passion nor focus. If they had played this bad in his rookie season, they would still be in Austin. We don't have great leaders, Forbes needs to go, Lonnie must play and Pop bla bla.... ok but I think the key are DJ and Derrick. Unless Pop figures out something else that suddenly revitalizes the entire team.

I miss 40y olders Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, no-jump Splitter and planet-size-ass Boris Diaw playing great defense. Damned overrated athleticism, blessed underrated baskeball IQ!

[ZeusWillJudge]

And that may be the fatal flaw with Poeltl. In a league that's 3P happy, he has to be able to come out and defend someone like KAT at the arc. He looked good enough elsewhere, but offered zero resistance out on the perimeter.

Can he be taught? Do the Spurs actually do things like that?

[Slippy]

Duh -

only EVERYONE here can see that Lonnie needs playing time - except Pop -


hopefully Pop doesn't go back to his head games with Lonnie and slows the process even further.

Players - need playing time. Lonnie and Metu have tons of potential but there will be growing pains -

much better to throw them out now and see what happens by the end of the season -
the playoffs will not be possible the way things are going - so just throw them out there.

Gay and Dejounte and White - are perennially gimpy so moderating their playing time to give the rookies a shot is a win-win.
LMA & DDR - do a lot of coasting - so trimming their playing time will keep them fresh for a late push and will keep them a little worried (hungry) about losing their minutes.

Beli and Forbes in spot minutes might spark the team instead of kill the team every time they are depended on to carry a full load. Patty as a spark plug and sniper is his comfort zone.

Maybe Timmy can coax old man Pop into some fresher thinking.

You can only hope that one of the assistants is telling him exactly this. It's getting so obvious except to the guy that's in charge.

Comon Tim.

[tbdog]

And that may be the fatal flaw with Poeltl. In a league that's 3P happy, he has to be able to come out and defend someone like KAT at the arc. He looked good enough elsewhere, but offered zero resistance out on the perimeter.

Can he be taught? Do the Spurs actually do things like that?

He seems agile enough to. But contesting the 3 these days is an art.

[ZeusWillJudge]

He seems agile enough to. But contesting the 3 these days is an art.


Totally agree. And I think he doesn't know how. Just like I don't think he knows how to box out. When guys get to this stage, I honestly don't know who teaches them.

[sasaint]

You can only hope that one of the assistants is telling him exactly this. It's getting so obvious except to the guy that's in charge.

Comon Tim.

Seeing Tim interact very positively with Lonnie during a timeout was very encouraging. I think Lonnie definitely has Tim in his corner, and Tim will influence Pop.

[sasaint]

Totally agree. And I think he doesn't know how. Just like I don't think he knows how to box out. When guys get to this stage, I honestly don't know who teaches them.

Not really defending Poodle, but boxing out is not something that is practiced consistently or very well in the NBA in general.

[GAustex]

I recall Lonnie box out a big dude near the end of his run yesterday.

[RC_Drunkford]

White is clearly hurt and needs to be shut down. But I like White taking 6 threes last night. Even though he only made 1 of em, the fact that he took 6 threes is big for me.



White took 6 3s cause the Wolves dared him to shoot because they know he can't shoot them well enough. It's part of the reason why the Spurs lost

[ZeusWillJudge]

Not really defending Poodle, but boxing out is not something that is practiced consistently or very well in the NBA in general.


Don't like "boxing out"? Call it "getting position", maybe "doin' your work early". When you're the center, it's your job to get a body on your man and keep it there. Jakob literally shows no awareness of that. I don't question that other players in the league have some bad fundamentals. Just talking about the Spurs here.

Not to be condescending, but do you know why guys get LOTS more defensive boards than offensive boards? Why both sides don't have an equal chance at pulling down every rebound? Think about it, and then pay attention to Poeltl next game. He gives up a lot of his advantage on the glass. It's simply technique, that would make him a lot more effective/valuable.

[Shakril]

Don't like "boxing out"? Call it "getting position", maybe "doin' your work early". When you're the center, it's your job to get a body on your man and keep it there. Jakob literally shows no awareness of that. I don't question that other players in the league have some bad fundamentals. Just talking about the Spurs here.

Not to be condescending, but do you know why guys get LOTS more defensive boards than offensive boards? Why both sides don't have an equal chance at pulling down every rebound? Think about it, and then pay attention to Poeltl next game. He gives up a lot of his advantage on the glass. It's simply technique, that would make him a lot more effective/valuable.

As always you are wrong on this topic. Its hard to get into position when you have constantly to help out other Defenders, cause they dont do their job. And its funny that always when Poeltl is on the Court, the defense in the Paint suddenly is much better and opponents switch to 3 Pointers. And cause spurs dont have perimeter guards, those opponents make those 3s. Minnesota game is the best example. Min made 3s, SAS did not.

Where i agree is, that he has to improve things on his play, for example i like him to be able to make short range shots and free throws, which would increase his value on the offensive side immensly. I often saw him with the ball, alone on the free throw line and he didnt shot it sadly. If his free throw percentage at least would go up to say 70%, opponents would foul him less or at least they would be punished more for it.

But compared to the rest of the team, Poeltl at least is reliable.

[monty4329]

I miss 40y olders Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, no-jump Splitter and planet-size-ass Boris Diaw playing great defense. Damned overrated athleticism, blessed underrated baskeball IQ!

Sadly, that was the NBA of yesteryear.
Demographics -and shoe market- dictate today's NBA rules which favors athleticism and easy shooting over actual basketball. Defense is unappealing to watch and so is elaborate offense: the league decided that you can't guard shooters, must score a lot and quickly. Soon it will be All-Star weekend basketball from october to april...

Also, we must accept that bodies will be bigger and athletes are constantly improving: effectively, the court is much smaller and the basket is much lower than 30-20-10 years ago, all the more now than before jumping higher beats executing right.

[Coach X]

Sadly, that was the NBA of yesteryear.
Demographics -and shoe market- dictate today's NBA rules which favors athleticism and easy shooting over actual basketball. Defense is unappealing to watch and so is elaborate offense: the league decided that you can't guard shooters, must score a lot and quickly. Soon it will be All-Star weekend basketball from october to april...
Yaah, you are absolutely right. It's the B-side of capitalism. I'm optimistic thugh. We had the worst tv ever and somehow the public returned to the quality shows, same with the food and more things. Fast-cheap-easy-simple engages a lot initially but people realizes there is another way of doing things and it's more interesting. Maybe NBA TV ratings are telling us something about this soft NBA?


Also, we must accept that bodies will be bigger and athletes are constantly improving: effectively, the court is much smaller and the basket is much lower than 30-20-10 years ago, all the more now than before jumping higher beats executing right. Agree again. Undeniable players improvement must go hand in hand with ruling adaptations in order to preserve the spirit of the game.

[ZeusWillJudge]

As always you are wrong on this topic. Its hard to get into position when you have constantly to help out other Defenders, cause they dont do their job. And its funny that always when Poeltl is on the Court, the defense in the Paint suddenly is much better and opponents switch to 3 Pointers. And cause spurs dont have perimeter guards, those opponents make those 3s. Minnesota game is the best example. Min made 3s, SAS did not.

Where i agree is, that he has to improve things on his play, for example i like him to be able to make short range shots and free throws, which would increase his value on the offensive side immensly. I often saw him with the ball, alone on the free throw line and he didnt shot it sadly. If his free throw percentage at least would go up to say 70%, opponents would foul him less or at least they would be punished more for it.

But compared to the rest of the team, Poeltl at least is reliable.


Answer my question then, Sparky. Why do guys get LOTS more defensive boards than offensive boards? Why do defenders have an advantage getting a rebound over offensive players? You've never really thought about it, have you? What I'm talking about has nothing to do with him helping on defense.

If you can't understand anything else, watch him when he's weak-side, between his man and the basket, and a shot goes up. His man slips past him and snags the carom far too often, because he completely forgets there's anyone else on the floor. Not only would he get more of those boards, he's playing with some of the best-rebounding guards in the league - they would come down with a lot of those rebounds if Poeltl paid any attention at all to boxing out. That's just fact, Sparky.

And do you think maybe the interior defense improves some because he's a 7-footer who's more at home in and around the paint? Asking for a friend.

[KobesAchilles]

White took 6 3s cause the Wolves dared him to shoot because they know he can't shoot them well enough. It's part of the reason why the Spurs lost
I know why he took them and I don’t care that he missed them. DeRozan wouldn’t have shot those 3s and neither would Murray. Hell its why I hated Fathead bc he wouldn’t take those 3s either. White having the confidence to shoot (and miss basically all six 3s) is an important step in becoming a better player.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I know why he took them and I don’t care that he missed them. DeRozan wouldn’t have shot those 3s and neither would Murray. Hell its why I hated Fathead bc he wouldn’t take those 3s either. White having the confidence to shoot (and miss basically all six 3s) is an important step in becoming a better player.


Yeah, but the reason you want guys to fire those 3's is to pull defenders away from the paint. Those guys didn't even flinch toward White. (Just like that clip that got posted of the last game where they totally ignored DeRozan.) You don't mind a guy shooting and missing 3's as badly, if it stretches the defense some. But when a guy gets totally ignored, tossing up bricks doesn't serve any purpose except to end a possession.

This thing has gotten ugly.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah, but the reason you want guys to fire those 3's is to pull defenders away from the paint. Those guys didn't even flinch toward White. (Just like that clip that got posted of the last game where they totally ignored DeRozan.) You don't mind a guy shooting and missing 3's as badly, if it stretches the defense some. But when a guy gets totally ignored, tossing up bricks doesn't serve any purpose except to end a possession.

This thing has gotten ugly.
i agree that White isn’t where I want him to be with his outside shot. Especially that performance. But i want players with balls and White had them. We aren’t winning this year anyways, Whites main issues are confidence and attitude. I think those are the two areas he needs to sharpen and even though he SUCKED at shooting, in the long run I think it’s a positive. Short term not so much

[ZeusWillJudge]

i agree that White isn’t where I want him to be with his outside shot. Especially that performance. But i want players with balls and White had them. We aren’t winning this year anyways, Whites main issues are confidence and attitude. I think those are the two areas he needs to sharpen and even though he SUCKED at shooting, in the long run I think it’s a positive. Short term not so much


Can't argue with that part.


Edit: In fact, I'll go one better. What I said there wasn't fair. White is shooting .361 from 3P this season. On this team, that's got to be a green light. I don't know if he can keep his percentage up shooting more of them, but it's worth finding out.

Honestly, if I'm looking at this roster and trying to figure out who I would like to see start sending up more 3's, White is the guy.