No thread on the MAGAtard that got smoked in Denver?

[Spurminator]

Read again. I didn't say the information isn't available. I said it's not being used for COVID deaths, not here certainly. Here it's total deaths but then you'll switch to death rate when talking about a democrat run city notorious for shootings.

When someone says Chicago is the most violent city in the country, it makes sense to use death rate to argue against that claim. When someone says the President sucks at pandemic response, it makes sense to talk about total deaths in the country. We could certainly use deaths per capita instead, but it wouldn't tell a different story.

Why would you add an irrelevant state or local variable to an argument of federal response unless the discussion is about specific states or cities? You're not making an argument about data relevance, you just want the topic to be different.


Look at COVID death rates in individual states. When it gets to that level, suddenly the left wants to merge all deaths together again because the metrics aren't favorable to their narrative.

If you want to rank states by response, it seems appropriate to rank by death rate. I'm not sure I've seen anyone argue against that. Where has anyone said death rate is not relevant to state or local response?

[Spurtacular]

Pinkerton might be in deep shit if it's hiring unlicensed security guards, but I don't see how the media company is liable for that.

Mitigating factor like I said. Using a third party often doesn't absolve a party from culpability though.

[Winehole23]

Odd, that same type of metric isn't being used for COVID deaths.Me, six hours ago:

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283058&page=851&p=10292097&viewfull=1#post10292097

[ElNono]

Mitigating factor like I said. Using a third party often doesn't absolve a party from culpability though.

Unless you can come up with a contract of killing for hire, the media company is 100% criminally off the hook. We can put money on that if you want.

[pgardn]

Media company will have to pay the civil suit, tbh... that's probably as ugly as it gets for them.

Meanwhile fat idiot is dead.

Does anyone know anything about his family? kids? relatives? friends?
People should not be killed because they are stupid.
There is a pride factor involved in all of this as well.
Could the security guard just taken the mace and attack and got the hell out of there? Would he if he did not have a gun? This fat guy must die because its him or me??? Thats what a gun decides for you. Dammit, fat guy maced me... Now hes gonna steal or do what? No, he will die.

fcked up.

Find the fat man later and beat his fat ass into exhaustion if you must, dont kill him.

[ElNono]

Meanwhile fat idiot is dead.

Does anyone know anything about his family? kids? relatives? friends?
People should not be killed because they are stupid.
There is a pride factor involved in all of this as well.
Could the security guard just taken the mace and attack and got the hell out of there? Would he if he did not have a gun? This fat guy must die because its him or me??? Thats what a gun decides for you. Dammit, fat guy maced me... Now hes gonna steal or do what? No, he will die.

fcked up.

Find the fat man later and beat his fat ass into exhaustion if you must, dont kill him.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

[Will Hunting]

When someone says Chicago is the most violent city in the country, it makes sense to use death rate to argue against that claim. When someone says the President sucks at pandemic response, it makes sense to talk about total deaths in the country. We could certainly use deaths per capita instead, but it wouldn't tell a different story.

Why would you add an irrelevant state or local variable to an argument of federal response unless the discussion is about specific states or cities? You're not making an argument about data relevance, you just want the topic to be different.



If you want to rank states by response, it seems appropriate to rank by death rate. I'm not sure I've seen anyone argue against that. Where has anyone said death rate is not relevant to state or local response?
Just to be clear, if MAGAtards want to use deaths/capita instead of total deaths to grade Trump's covid response, 'Murica now has a worse COVID deaths/capita rate than 8 other countries, and 6 of them are central/south american shitholes we shouldn't be using as a way to grade ourselves.

[ChumpDumper]

Mitigating factor like I said. Using a third party often doesn't absolve a party from culpability though.Cite some relevant cases.

[Spurtacular]

:lol

1315440812822458368

[pgardn]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

Yeah I dont like that when humans are determining the rules of the game for an unknown foe in a very short time frame.
And you dont go back on the rules when you pull the trigger.
This is just wrong all the way around.

[Reck]

Guns good now

You’ve been posting the same 3 words since this morning. Give it a rest.

[Will Hunting]

The media has no vicarious liability for the shooter. He's not its employee, he works for the company they contracted with for security.

This is all ignoring the fact that a fat asshole running around physically assaulting people and bear macing them has no credible argument that he was entitled to a level of care from those around him. He was running around looking to start shit. A lawsuit that he was entitled to a standard of care from the guy he walked up to, assaulted and sprayed with bear mace would be a frivolous joke.

[ElNono]

Yeah I dont like that when humans are determining the rules of the game in a very short time frame.

I prefer nobody to die too, but frankly we're surrounded with fake tough guys that watch too much Rambo... so this shouldn't be surprising either IMVHO

[Spurtacular]

Unless you can come up with a contract of killing for hire, the media company is 100% criminally off the hook. We can put money on that if you want.

I was speaking to the civil side, but the criminal side could be curious.
That would require stuff to be unearthed. It's still early in the process.

[RD2191]

:lol

1315440812822458368
Oh, so now laws matter? Where was this same energy when Kyle Rittenhouse broke multiple laws before committing murder in Wisconsin?

[Spurtacular]

Oh, so now laws matter? Where was this same energy when Kyle Rittenhouse broke multiple laws before committing murder in Wisconsin?

I'm not interested in your wing nut distraction, tbh.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

1315440812822458368The city requires the license, not the state.

You learned to not make such stupid mistakes in muh class, didn't you?

[Spurminator]

Just to be clear, if MAGAtards want to use deaths/capita instead of total deaths to grade Trump's covid response, 'Murica now has a worse COVID deaths/capita rate than 8 other countries, and 6 of them are central/south american shitholes we shouldn't be using as a way to grade ourselves.

Exactly. Maybe y'all should add a "non-shithole countries with a higher death rate than the US" line to that daily COVID tracker.

[ElNono]

The media has no vicarious liability for the shooter. He's not its employee, he works for the company they contracted with for security.

This is all ignoring the fact that a fat asshole running around physically assaulting people and bear macing them has no credible argument that he was entitled to a level of care from those around him. He was running around looking to start shit. A lawsuit that he was entitled to a standard of care from the guy he walked up to, assaulted and sprayed with bear mace would be a frivolous joke.

Yeah, the criminal case can only really go forward on a technicality, IMO... this is even without looking at CO laws specifically.

On the civil side, the bar is much lower, and convincing a jury with photos of retard holding a baby might be enough. Plus the family will have a long line of trial lawyers knocking on their door.

[DMC]

When someone says Chicago is the most violent city in the country, it makes sense to use death rate to argue against that claim. When someone says the President sucks at pandemic response, it makes sense to talk about total deaths in the country. We could certainly use deaths per capita instead, but it wouldn't tell a different story.

No it doesn't. Violence and death are not synonymous.

Also, if the country had 20 billion people and the same 200K died, that miniscule percentage would be still 200K deaths, but the death rate would be very low. So death rate absolutely matters. When jurisdictions are controlled at the state level, and you want to ignore state level death rates in favor of compiling all results to issue blame to the federal level, that's just wrangling the stats to suit your narrative.


Why would you add an irrelevant state or local variable to an argument of federal response unless the discussion is about specific states or cities? You're not making an argument about data relevance, you just want the topic to be different.



If you want to rank states by response, it seems appropriate to rank by death rate. I'm not sure I've seen anyone argue against that. Where has anyone said death rate is not relevant to state or local response?

Of course, it just seems no one on the left wants to, not yet at least. Just as no one gave 2 shits about NY's deaths but as soon as a red state started feeling it, then the gov was called everything but a white man.

[ElNono]

I was speaking to the civil side, but the criminal side could be curious.
That would require stuff to be unearthed. It's still early in the process.

On the civil side, I agree. This smells like settlement out of court right now.

[Spurminator]

So a trigger happy wannabe cop is going to prison and a violence-provoking MAGAtard is dead.

Win-win IMO

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, the criminal case can only really go forward on a technicality, IMO... this is even without looking at CO laws specifically.

On the civil side, the bar is much lower, and convincing a jury with photos of retard holding a baby might be enough. Plus the family will have a long line of trial lawyers knocking on their door.:cryHe made his own hats!::cry

[DMC]

The media has no vicarious liability for the shooter. He's not its employee, he works for the company they contracted with for security.

This is all ignoring the fact that a fat asshole running around physically assaulting people and bear macing them has no credible argument that he was entitled to a level of care from those around him. He was running around looking to start shit. A lawsuit that he was entitled to a standard of care from the guy he walked up to, assaulted and sprayed with bear mace would be a frivolous joke.

Mostly peaceful though.

[Will Hunting]

Yeah, the criminal case can only really go forward on a technicality, IMO... this is even without looking at CO laws specifically.

On the civil side, the bar is much lower, and convincing a jury with photos of retard holding a baby might be enough. Plus the family will have a long line of trial lawyers knocking on their door.
I was talking about civil when I said vicarious liability.

The bar is much lower in terms of only needing to show by a preponderance of evidence, but you still need to have a claim upon which relief can be sought in the first place.

[RD2191]

I prefer nobody to die too, but frankly we're surrounded with fake tough guys that watch too much Rambo... so this shouldn't be surprising either IMVHO
The dude was a fat pathetic sack of shit. If you're over 50 and still attending right wing rallies then you deserve what's coming to you. Fatass should've been at home enjoying his grandchildren but instead he's out trying to provoke the Libs, now the idiot is dead. I wish I could tell you I felt bad for the guy, but I don't. I actually think it's kind of hilarious. As we say in the RGV, Andale, por pendejo.

[DMC]

So a trigger happy wannabe cop is going to prison and a violence-provoking MAGAtard is dead.

Win-win IMO

You didn't seem to have the same sentiment with Capt Sav-a-Ho who supported the cops and died anyhow.

[Chris]

lol some dipshit veteran with PTSD

wow

[Will Hunting]

Exactly. Maybe y'all should add a "non-shithole countries with a higher death rate than the US" line to that daily COVID tracker.
That reminds me...

[RD2191]

Politics aside, I genuinely believe the security guard thought the man was reaching for a gun in his waist which is why he fired at him.

[ChumpDumper]

The dude was a fat pathetic sack of shit. If you're over 50 and still attending right wing rallies then you deserve what's coming to you. Fatass should've been at home enjoying his grandchildren but instead he's out trying to provoke the Libs, now the idiot is dead. I wish I could tell you I felt bad for the guy, but I don't. I actually think it's kind of hilarious. As we say in the RGV, Andale, por pendejo.He was a hard 49 apparently.

And he was a fucking dumbass who did this before. Seems it was just a matter of time before someone hit back.

[pgardn]

I prefer nobody to die too, but frankly we're surrounded with fake tough guys that watch too much Rambo... so this shouldn't be surprising either IMVHO

We should just take all these retarded incel types and match them up and let them go at it without weapons until the wear themselves out. Then they get to take on two other idiots who have done the same until they cant move a muscle but at least live. If they keep having these "need to be violent compulsions" then just keep them in the tournament.

I can dream.

Guns are too fckn easy with often disastrous results. Its an easy way to a very bad resolution.

[RD2191]

I'm not interested in your wing nut distraction, tbh.
Can't answer the question, huh?

[ChumpDumper]

Politics aside, I genuinely believe the security guard thought the man was reaching for a gun in his waist which is why he fired at him.When he's on the ground his vest opens and it looks like he might have been packing but it could have been almost anything hanging off his belt..

[Chris]

So a trigger happy wannabe cop is going to prison and a violence-provoking MAGAtard is dead.

Win-win IMO

wow

[RD2191]

He was a hard 49 apparently.

And he was a fucking dumbass who did this before. Seems it was just a matter of time before someone hit back.
Gawd damn. :lol Dude looked 60+ tbh

[DMC]

Politics aside, I genuinely believe the security guard thought the man was reaching for a gun in his waist which is why he fired at him.

You'd have to explain why he drew his weapon in the 1st place.

[Spurminator]

No it doesn't. Violence and death are not synonymous.

Fine. But the post you originally responded to was in an exchange about killings and shootings. Go back and read it.


Also, if the country had 20 billion people and the same 200K died, that miniscule percentage would be still 200K deaths, but the death rate would be very low. So death rate absolutely matters. When jurisdictions are controlled at the state level, and you want to ignore state level death rates in favor of compiling all results to issue blame to the federal level, that's just wrangling the stats to suit your narrative.

You don't need the hypothetical 200 billion population because we know the population of the United States. And our death rate still sucks. Again you're trying to change the discussion from federal response to state and local response. It's a separate discussion and one that I'm sure people would be happy to have if you want to bring it up. Doesn't make the federal response any less shitty.

[ChumpDumper]

You'd have to explain why he drew his weapon in the 1st place.He was assaulted.

[Will Hunting]

Gawd damn. :lol Dude looked 60+ tbh
Crystal meth is one helluva drug.

[Spurminator]

You didn't seem to have the same sentiment with Capt Sav-a-Ho who supported the cops and died anyhow.

You're right I didn't. That guy shouldn't have been killed. That was not a win-win. Next?

[pgardn]

Guns good now

Spare us your humanity.
Guy who defends rulers who use gas on their people.

[pgardn]

Fine. But the post you originally responded to was in an exchange about killings and shootings. Go back and read it.



You don't need the hypothetical 200 billion population because we know the population of the United States. And our death rate still sucks. Again you're trying to change the discussion from federal response to state and local response. It's a separate discussion and one that I'm sure people would be happy to have if you want to bring it up. Doesn't make the federal response any less shitty.

Per usual trying to re direct.
His MO that continually fails.

[Spurtacular]

Mostly peaceful though.

:lol

[RD2191]

Crystal meth is one helluva drug.
:lol

[ElNono]

I was talking about civil when I said vicarious liability.

The bar is much lower in terms of only needing to show by a preponderance of evidence, but you still need to have a claim upon which relief can be sought in the first place.

There's an undeniable contract between the company this guy was working for and the media company. He was also protecting Media employees.

At some point the Media company will do the math on risk vs reward and settle this for much less of whatever they'll be sued for.

[Will Hunting]

There's an undeniable contract between the company this guy was working for and the media company. He was also protecting Media employees.

At some point the Media company will do the math on risk vs reward and settle this for much less of whatever they'll be sued for.
That doesn't necessarily make them vicariously liable for the shooter's actions.

[Spurtacular]

Can't answer the question, huh?

I'll answer it by stating how utterly stupid it is to compare a guy being chased by a mob and defending his life to this, which amounts to an execution morally if not criminally.

[Spurminator]

wow

Not sure what's "wow" about it.

Are you now opposed to people shooting to kill when they feel threatened?

Do you not feel this person should go to prison?

[ElNono]

That doesn't necessarily make them vicariously liable for the shooter's actions.

It doesn't have to be that charge. They could be sued for negligence, accessory to murder, aiding and abetting... the bar is so much lower in civil trials.

This is why 97% of civil cases are either settled or dismissed without a trial.

[Spurtacular]

Not sure what's "wow" about it.

Are you now opposed to cops shooting to kill when they feel threatened?

Do you not feel this person should go to prison?

Shooting cos feeling threatened good now.

:lol Sadbert

[Spurminator]

Shooting cos feeling threatened good now.

:lol Sadbert

It is what it is. Did you change your mind about it too?

[DMC]

Fine. But the post you originally responded to was in an exchange about killings and shootings. Go back and read it.



You don't need the hypothetical 200 billion population because we know the population of the United States. And our death rate still sucks. Again you're trying to change the discussion from federal response to state and local response. It's a separate discussion and one that I'm sure people would be happy to have. Doesn't make the federal response any less shitty.

Killings and shootings = violence. The aiming is suspect in Chicago.

I said 20 billion. If total deaths is all that matters, why wouldn't a death rate of 1 per 100K still be just as relevant as 650 per 100K?

In order to know the response was poor, you'd need to know what the death rate would be in a good response. You don't have a standard. That's my point. You're just using big numbers as smoke and mirrors and you're picking the most sensational numbers you can find to support your "orange man bad" narrative. The real facts are in the death rates per jurisdiction. You might as well blame the Surgeon General for the quality of care in your local clinics.

[Will Hunting]

It doesn't have to be that charge. They could be sued for negligence, accessory to murder, aiding and abetting... the bar is so much lower in civil trials.

This is why 97% of civil cases are either settled or dismissed without a trial.
Accessory to murder isn't a civil cause of action.

They would need to be vicariously liable for the shooter's actions to be liable for negligence. If they're not vicariously liable for the shooter's actions then they wouldn't have any liability at all. Do you know what vicarious liability is?

Maybe Colorado is different, but I know that there's a very limited scope in Texas for when aiding and abetting applies in civil suits, and this is outside of it.

[ChumpDumper]

The USA isn't a jurisdiction now?

Novel.

[DMC]

Not sure what's "wow" about it.

Are you now opposed to people shooting to kill when they feel threatened?

Do you not feel this person should go to prison?

:lol someone here never had a self defense class

[DMC]

Accessory to murder isn't a civil cause of action.

They would need to be vicariously liable for the shooter's actions to be liable for negligence. If they're not vicariously liable for the shooter's actions then they wouldn't have any liability at all. Do you know what vicarious liability is?

Maybe Colorado is different, but I know that there's a very limited scope in Texas for when aiding and abetting applies in civil suits, and this is outside of it.
Pop and game 6?

[Spurtacular]

It is what it is. Did you change your mind about it too?

I haven't seen anything to equate this to the Trayvon Martin case.
I know lefties are desperate for these kinds of parallels.
I saw what was effectively an execution.
But at least you're owning that your morals are utterly convenient.

[DMC]

I haven't seen anything to equate this to the Trayvon Martin case.
I know lefties are desperate for these kinds of parallels.
I saw what was effectively an execution.
But at least you're owning that your morals are utterly convenient.
They all did when they sold their souls for 1M.

[ChumpDumper]

I haven't seen anything to equate this to the Trayvon Martin case.
I know lefties are desperate for these kinds of parallels.
I saw what was effectively an execution.
But at least you're owning that your morals are utterly convenient.Are you just leaving out the assault?:lol

[Spurtacular]

Are you just leaving out the assault?:lol

Who assaulted whom has not been shown on this board.

[Spurminator]

Killings and shootings = violence. The aiming is suspect in Chicago.

More semantics. The topic was clear when you responded to it. Maybe you need a refresher.


I said 20 billion. If total deaths is all that matters, why wouldn't a death rate of 1 per 100K still be just as relevant as 650 per 100K?

In order to know the response was poor, you'd need to know what the death rate would be in a good response. You don't have a standard. That's my point. You're just using big numbers as smoke and mirrors and you're picking the most sensational numbers you can find to support your "orange man bad" narrative. The real facts are in the death rates per jurisdiction. You might as well blame the Surgeon General for the quality of care in your local clinics.

What the fuck are you even ranting about? :lol I never said death rate doesn't matter, I provided you a link to death rates which shows that we are number 9 in the world out of 195 countries.

Death rate absolutely matters. It doesn't help your argument.

[ChumpDumper]

Who assaulted who has not been shown on this board.It has. Your demanding muh video doesn't change anything.

What's your theory that includes the guard's attacking the milliner first?

[RD2191]

I'll answer it by stating how utterly stupid it is to compare a guy being chased by a mob and defending his life to this, which amounts to an execution morally if not criminally.
:lol Way to dodge the question. Still no answer.

[Spurtacular]

It has.

:cry Media put together a picture collage and stuff :cry

[Spurtacular]

:lol Way to dodge the question. Still no answer.

That was the answer, moron.

[Spurminator]

:lol someone here never had a self defense class

Nope, never needed one. I don't see what that has to do with the conservative standard that shooters are justified in killing people they are threatened by.

[ChumpDumper]

:cry Media put together a picture collage and stuff :cry

What's your theory that includes the guard's attacking the milliner first?

Step up.

[Spurtacular]

What's your theory that includes the guard's attacking the milliner first?

I haven't jumped to any conclusions on who initiated what. You have. Moar convenience is all.

[ChumpDumper]

Nope, never needed one. I don't see what that has to do with the conservative standard that shooters are justified in killing people they are threatened by.:lol DMC trying to big time his self defense course.

[ChumpDumper]

I haven't jumped to any conclusions on who initiated what. You have. Moar convenience is all.Of course you've concluded the guard struck the milliner first.

It's your legal theory.

[RD2191]

That was the answer, moron.
No, it wasn't. I asked you why all of a sudden it matters to conservatives that a law was broken prior to the incident that occurred.

[Spurminator]

I haven't seen anything to equate this to the Trayvon Martin case.
I know lefties are desperate for these kinds of parallels.
I saw what was effectively an execution.
But at least you're owning that your morals are utterly convenient.

You brought up Trayvon, not me. Where's the video of Trayvon attacking or provoking George Zimmerman?

You can't seriously deny that you and other conservatives have spent hours in here rationalizing when other people have been shot in a confrontation.

[Spurminator]

They all did when they sold their souls for 1M.

:lol "They"

I said no to the $1M

[Spurtacular]

Of course you've concluded the guard struck the milliner first.

It's your legal theory.

Oh, look; CumDumpster is desperately trying to put words in people's mouths.

[Spurtacular]

No, it wasn't. I asked you why all of a sudden it matters to conservatives that a law was broken prior to the incident that occurred.

I haven't seen any conservative here say it doesn't matter if the law was broken. Get your shit together.

[baseline bum]

He was a hard 49 apparently.

And he was a fucking dumbass who did this before. Seems it was just a matter of time before someone hit back.

Dead Deplorable assaulted others too?

[Spurtacular]

You brought up Trayvon, not me. Where's the video of Trayvon attacking or provoking George Zimmerman?

You can't seriously deny that you and other conservatives have spent hours in here rationalizing when other people have been shot in a confrontation.

There is no video. There is audio of GZ screaming for his life, fortunately.

Yea, I rationalize self defense. You advocate for executions.

It is what it is.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh, look; CumDumpster is desperately trying to put words in people's mouths.:lol you called it an execution, derp.

Who do you think struck first?

Guard or milliner?

Step up for once in your miserable life.

[Winehole23]

:lol "They"

I said no to the $1MFor the record, I also said no.

[MASSA]

1315095603194605570

[Spurminator]

There is no video. There is audio of GZ screaming for his life, fortunately.

Yea, I rationalize self defense. You advocate for executions.

It is what it is.

:lol Audio

The Denver shooting would absolutely meet your standard for self defense If the victim hadn't been a MAGAtard and you know it. At least be honest with yourself, you're the only friend you have.

[DMC]

:lol "They"

I said no to the $1M

You didn't vote.

[DMC]

For the record, I also said no.

lmcontrollinao!!

[Spurtacular]

:lol Audio

The Denver shooting would absolutely meet your standard for self defense If the victim hadn't been a MAGAtard and you know it. At least be honest with yourself, you're the only friend you have.

You haven't thought this out. But that wouldn't make you an exceptional Chumpette. :lol

Was the shooter's life in danger?

[Spurminator]

You didn't vote.

Correct. No soul was sold. Solly cholly.

[Spurminator]

You haven't thought this out. But that wouldn't make you an exceptional Chumpette. :lol

Was the shooter's life in danger?

Another goal post move. Life endangerment has never been the standard for your semen shielding of trigger happy cops.

[Spurminator]

1315095603194605570

You must have missed the memo. Shooter wasn't antifa. I'm sorry for your loss.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol derp's alts

[Spurtacular]

Another goal post move. Life endangerment has never been the standard for your semen shielding of trigger happy cops.

Uh, you can look at my posts directly responding to you to know that's not true.

But to be clear, you're saying the shooter wasn't responding to lethal force?

Yes or no.

[Winehole23]

You must have missed the memo. Shooter wasn't antifa. I'm sorry for your loss.

1315353197633036291

[Spurminator]

Uh, you can look at my posts directly responding to you to know that's not true.

But to be clear, you're saying the shooter wasn't responding to lethal force?

Yes or no.

No I don't believe he was responding to lethal force and never suggested otherwise. I also said I'm glad he's going to jail.

What we're talking about here are your selective standards, not mine.

I'm not going to do an exhaustive search of your posts about every black person killed by a cop. You've established your position and credibility here enough that it's pretty clear where you stand. You are free to prove otherwise. I really don't give a shit.

[ChumpDumper]

Uh, you can look at my posts directly responding to you to know that's not true.

But to be clear, you're saying the shooter wasn't responding to lethal force?

Yes or no.Did your law class tell you the actual Colorado standard was lethal force?

Yes or no.

[ElNono]

Accessory to murder isn't a civil cause of action.

Sorry, mental fart, I was thinking wrongful death.


They would need to be vicariously liable for the shooter's actions to be liable for negligence. If they're not vicariously liable for the shooter's actions then they wouldn't have any liability at all. Do you know what vicarious liability is?

Maybe Colorado is different, but I know that there's a very limited scope in Texas for when aiding and abetting applies in civil suits, and this is outside of it.

I know what vicarious liability is (part of tort law), and what you would be looking at here is the "Respondeat superior" doctrine. If this guy is an independent contractor, then it would be damn near impossible to sue the Media company, but my understanding is that he's not.

Then again, I'm with you that I'm not sure the specifics on Colorado law, but a good portion of tort law comes from common law, so I can't think it's too different.

[ElNono]

They all did when they sold their souls for 1M.

I don't think I answered to the affirmative on that one.

[Spurtacular]

No I don't believe he was responding to lethal force and never suggested otherwise. I also said I'm glad he's going to jail.

What we're talking about here are your selective standards, not mine.

I'm not going to do an exhaustive search of your posts about every black person killed by a cop. You've established your position and credibility here enough that it's pretty clear where you stand. You are free to prove otherwise. I really don't give a shit.

Okay, that's all fair enough. You're applauding murder. You don't seem to be alone in that.

[ChumpDumper]

Okay, that's all fair enough. You're applauding murder. You don't seem to be alone in that.

So you've concluded it's murder.

How did you reach that conclusion legally, derp?

[Spurminator]

Okay, that's all fair enough. You're applauding murder. You don't seem to be alone in that.

Nope, for the third time, I said I'm glad he's going to jail. That's not applauding murder.

But I am glad this particular murder victim happened to be a violence-provoking MAGAtard instead of someone worth a shit. Small wins.

[Spurtacular]

Nope, for the third time, I said I'm glad he's going to jail. That's not applauding murder.

But I am glad this particular murder victim happened to be a violence-provoking MAGAtard instead of someone worth a shit. Small wins.

Okay, fine print I guess. It's low brow; but there's a difference to be fair.

[TSA]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SloanDickey/status/1315421895978897413

:lol your hero is fucked

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao "hero"

Does your hero George Webb have a theory?

Maximum penalty for the licensing is like a year in jail.

[ElNono]

You're a couple hours late, tbh...

[ElNono]

Dolloff could face a fine of up to $999 and a year in jail, Escudero said, if convicted of violating city law about security licensing.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/security-guard-held-denver-shooting-wasnt-licensed-officials-say/73-648ca0f2-cc71-4fa7-b145-cbd710b87f5f

[Winehole23]

Dolloff could face a fine of up to $999 and a year in jail, Escudero said, if convicted of violating city law about security licensing.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/security-guard-held-denver-shooting-wasnt-licensed-officials-say/73-648ca0f2-cc71-4fa7-b145-cbd710b87f5ftechnically, that's a misdemeanor, right?

[ElNono]

technically, that's a misdemeanor, right?

If he's not a repeat offender, probably community service will do, tbh

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like it will come down to whether the guard thought he or the newsman might be seriously hurt by chud.

Could be a pretty reasonable fear since chud had already hit him and appears to have been packing.

[spurraider21]

the unlawful carrying of the weapon is still a separate analysis from the homicide question. same with rittenhouse, etc

[ElNono]

the unlawful carrying of the weapon is still a separate analysis from the homicide question. same with rittenhouse, etc

Yep, I expect if they're going to charge him, they're going to throw the book at him.

[MultiTroll]

the unlawful carrying of the weapon is still a separate analysis from the homicide question. same with rittenhouse, etc
By Magatard or by security guard?
While of course if guard is not licensed to carry, will hurt him.
Does Magatard carrying have any bearing. Appears Tard only showed mace.

[MultiTroll]

Do you think Trump paid the guard to shoot the Magatard?
Telling the guard he will pardon him.

[pgardn]

You brought up Trayvon, not me. Where's the video of Trayvon attacking or provoking George Zimmerman?

You can't seriously deny that you and other conservatives have spent hours in here rationalizing when other people have been shot in a confrontation.

again bringing a gun into a situation where it was not necessary.

George wants to play wannabe neighborhood cop and immediately set himself up for a very bad resolution. this is what bringing a gun to a game means.

oh you’re gonna feel safe now, well excellent, you just put yourself in a spot where if you pull that thing, that moment, a very bad resolution becomes much more likely. Man up, chasing on foot without a weapon. Or more reasonable, call someone you hope knows what they are doing. Because “you” don’t.

[ChumpDumper]

This is about as good as it gets until maybe the security camera footage is released.

Doesn't look like the guard is "going for" chud's gun or even mace tbh.

1315512642744668162

[DarrinS]

1315491444933623808

[RD2191]

1315491444933623808
Looks like clear cut self defense to me.

[Spurminator]

1315491444933623808

This stuff has been posted numerous times. What is it about the Ian Miles Cheong version you find so compelling, Nathan?

[Reck]

1315491444933623808

After guy got in his face, slaps him and then maces them.

He back off alright but it wasn't because he was retreating, it was to create some space so he can mace the fuck out of the shooter and the other guy.

He played a poor hand.

[ChumpDumper]

1315491444933623808Chud assaulted an armed man.

Chud was stupid.

[RD2191]

"Victim" :lol Victims don't go up to people, slap them, and then mace them.

[RD2191]

After guy got in his face, slaps him and then maces them.

He back off alright but it wasn't because he was retreating, it was to create some space so he can mace the fuck out of the shooter and the other guy.

He played a poor hand.
Exactly

[Spurminator]

Can certainly be argued, as it would be by every conservative in this thread if it were a cop shooting a black man instead of a MAGAtard, that the shooter reacted to the victim pulling out mace because he thought it might be a gun.

[DMC]

1315491444933623808

If you play it backwards you can see that the security guy actually helped homie off the ground Scorpion style "Get over here" and sent a puff of yellow toxin into his hand.

[DMC]

Can certainly be argued, as it would be by every conservative in this thread if it were a cop shooting a black man instead of a MAGAtard, that the shooter reacted to the victim pulling out mace because he thought it might be a gun.

That would be perfectly legit.

[pgardn]

The fool did not deserve to die.

[ChumpDumper]

The fool did not deserve to die.Nope, but that's the chance you take when you assault someone.

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like Helen put up a couple more pics to fill in the gaps.

1315492042869481472

Guard could definitely be convicted for murder, but shut up about his grabbing for anything on chud.

[TSA]

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315875425923424257

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315916361470636033

Mace was in response to gun being drawn. He's going down for murder one.

[RD2191]

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315875425923424257

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315916361470636033

Mace was in response to gun being drawn. He's going down for murder one.
:lol NO

[TSA]

:lol NO

Book it.

Clear evidence victim was backing away and he drew his gun before mace was deployed. He's fucked.

[RandomGuy]

Mace was in response to gun being drawn. He's going down for murder one.

His lawyer will make it about the victim being a POS. Toss-up.

"reasonable doubt" is all you need.

[Winehole23]

His lawyer will make it about the victim being a POS. Toss-up.

"reasonable doubt" is all you need.Looks pretty bad, RG.

[RandomGuy]

Looks pretty bad, RG.

Probably. Convincing a jury tho... If OJ can get off the hook...

[SnakeBoy]

He's going down for murder one.

Without a doubt

[DarrinS]

Probably not a good idea to bitch slap someone with a gun on their belt, tho.

[SnakeBoy]

Probably not a good idea to bitch slap someone with a gun on their belt, tho.

Patriot dude got himself shot for sure

[ChumpDumper]

So, for the record, ST 2A types agree being assaulted is no reason to kill another person with a gun.

At least by a white guy.

Who likes Trump.

And took a step back afterwards.

That's all OK.

:tu

[SnakeBoy]

So, for the record, ST 2A types agree being assaulted is no reason to kill another person with a gun.


Not me. Leftist dude was justified imo. The law states otherwise tho.

[ChumpDumper]

Not me. Leftist dude was justified imo. The law states otherwise tho.I'm not sure Colorado law does say differently tbh. From what I understand in Colorado it's still perceived threat to self or others. Jury gets to decide whether it's reasonable.

Still, :lol "already laid his hands on" chud.

[SnakeBoy]

I'm not sure Colorado law does say differently tbh.

All you have to do is search Colorado Self Defense Laws, it's not hard. Even in Texas getting bitch slapped isn't justification for using lethal force.

[ChumpDumper]

All you have to do is search Colorado Self Defense Laws, it's not hard. Even in Texas getting bitch slapped isn't justification for using lethal force.I already searched. Thanks for the pro tip about searching for things on the internet, internet pro.:tu

First result:

Colorado's self-defense laws allow people to:
Defend a person (yourself or another person) from physical force; however, the use of deadly force is only allowed if it appears the attacker may seriously assault, kidnap, or sexually assault the person.

Could appear that way.

It's not hard.

[SnakeBoy]

Thanks for the pro tip about searching for things on the internet, internet pro.:tu


No problem. Glad to see you did it successfully :tu

[boutons_deux]

funny stance by the tattooed greasebag for "backing away"

why would the heroic shooter extend his hand if greasebag were backing away, rather than advancing?

[ChumpDumper]

He stepped back after slapping the guard, but chud was clearly going towards the newsman to get him to stop taking video in the first place.

[Trainwreck2100]

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315875425923424257

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315916361470636033

Mace was in response to gun being drawn. He's going down for murder one.

Republicans "if he didn't want to get shot he shouldn't have tried to attack the guy with the gun"

Republicans when the victim is white and believes the same as they do

"Yo man that's murder 1"

[MultiTroll]

Clown Boys:
"Adding a few more shots to this thread. In the shot before the slap, the shooter has already laid his hands on the Keltner. Keltner is charging the slap already as a response"

Noo. See Magatard walk forward 2-3 steps into standing-his-ground shooter prior to slap. Shooter putting hand out looked more defensive.Nonetheless it's looking tough for shooter. Magatard was indeed retrieving when shooter shot.

[RD2191]

When a Trumptard does the killing: “womp womp, get a gun you pussy libs”

When a Trumptard gets killed: *analyze shit like it’s the Zapruder film* “clearly he was moving backwards at 1.232 feet per second, which signifies a clear non-threatening stature, ignore the giant can of mace and THIS IS CLEARLY AN UNJUSTIFIED COLD-BLOODED MURDER :cry”
:lol

[ElNono]

When a Trumptard does the killing: “womp womp, get a gun you pussy libs”

When a Trumptard gets killed: *analyze shit like it’s the Zapruder film* “clearly he was moving backwards at 1.232 feet per second, which signifies a clear non-threatening stature, ignore the giant can of mace and THIS IS CLEARLY AN UNJUSTIFIED COLD-BLOODED MURDER :cry”

:lol

Don't forget the continuous backpedaling:

- He's antifa! (no, he's not)

- He tried to grab his mace! (no, he did not)

Now we're on the "he was backing away" (omitting he was backing away to spray bear mace all over the dude and his companions)

[TSA]

:lol

Don't forget the continuous backpedaling:

- He's antifa! (no, he's not)

- He tried to grab his mace! (no, he did not)

Now we're on the "he was backing away" (omitting he was backing away to spray bear mace all over the dude and his companions)

:lol (omitting that the mace wasn't deployed until after the gun was drawn)

dude is fucked


Colorado Revised Statutes Title 18. Criminal Code § 18-1-704. Use of physical force in defense of a person:


(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.

(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury;  or

(b) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204 ;  or

(c) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302 , robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302 , sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 , or in section 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 and 18-3-203 .

(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (1) of this section, a person is not justified in using physical force if:

(a) With intent to cause bodily injury or death to another person, he provokes the use of unlawful physical force by that other person;  or

(b) He is the initial aggressor;  except that his use of physical force upon another person under the circumstances is justifiable if he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so, but the latter nevertheless continues or threatens the use of unlawful physical force;  or

(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by agreement not specifically authorized by law.

https://codes.findlaw.com/co/title-18-criminal-code/co-rev-st-sect-18-1-704.html

[ChumpDumper]

Could be reasonable that the violent thug was going to do them great harm. Who even knows what's in the can before it's sprayed? Can't take any chances with violent white thugs. It's part of their culture.

[weebo]

maga trash dude didn't deserve to die but he sure as hell asked for it...by the looks of it maga trash dude was the aggressor (walking towards shooter and slapping him) and proceeds to attempt to mace the guy...maga trash taking a few steps back so as to not get maced himself...he asked to be shot as soon as he pulled the mace on the guy... shoot first and ask questions later...the guy that empties their clip first wins ....anyway one less trump vote :lol

[baseline bum]

:lol (omitting that the mace wasn't deployed until after the gun was drawn)

dude is fucked


Colorado Revised Statutes Title 18. Criminal Code § 18-1-704. Use of physical force in defense of a person:


(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.

(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury;  or

(b) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204 ;  or

(c) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302 , robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302 , sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 , or in section 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 and 18-3-203 .

(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (1) of this section, a person is not justified in using physical force if:

(a) With intent to cause bodily injury or death to another person, he provokes the use of unlawful physical force by that other person;  or

(b) He is the initial aggressor;  except that his use of physical force upon another person under the circumstances is justifiable if he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so, but the latter nevertheless continues or threatens the use of unlawful physical force;  or

(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by agreement not specifically authorized by law.

https://codes.findlaw.com/co/title-18-criminal-code/co-rev-st-sect-18-1-704.html

Omitting that Trumptard thug shot the mace first. Pretty much gives credence to the idea he was only backing up so he wouldn't spray himself, not backing up to de-escalate.

[baseline bum]

maga trash dude didn't deserve to die but he sure as hell asked for it...by the looks of it maga trash dude was the aggressor (walking towards shooter and slapping him) and proceeds to attempt to mace the guy...maga trash taking a few steps back so as to not get maced himself...he asked to be shot as soon as he pulled the mace on the guy... shoot first and ask questions later...the guy that empties their clip first wins ....anyway one less trump vote :lol

Huh? The thug shot first before the security guard dropped him.

[Ef-man]

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/72753640.jpg

[TSA]

Omitting that Trumptard thug shot the mace first. Pretty much gives credence to the idea he was only backing up so he wouldn't spray himself, not backing up to de-escalate.

Mace was deployed in response to gun being drawn first. After he backed up the only escalation was by the shooter.

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315875425923424257

[baseline bum]

Mace was deployed in response to gun being drawn first. After he backed up the only escalation was by the shooter.

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315875425923424257

Right, shooting bear spray wasn't escalation. :lmao

[weebo]

Huh? The thug shot first before the security guard dropped him.

ya man I agree...maga trash got what he asked for...you don't bring a squirt gun to a guy fight..the vids show he walked towards the security guard and initiated the aggression...the security guard just responded out of self defense...the security has a right to protect/defend himself if he feels a threat...CASE DISMISSED :tu

[TSA]

Right, shooting bear spray wasn't escalation. :lmao

what part of the gun being drawn first are you having trouble comprehending?

[weebo]

Mace was deployed in response to gun being drawn first. After he backed up the only escalation was by the shooter.

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315875425923424257

:lmao

someone pulls a gun on you do you pull out your mace or turn and run?

:lmao

[baseline bum]

what part of the gun being drawn first are you having trouble comprehending?

What part of bear spraying a guy are you having trouble understanding? Can I come bearspray you and your wife while you sit there and do nothing?

[TSA]

What part of bear spraying a guy are you having trouble understanding? Can I come bearspray you and your wife while you sit there and do nothing?

I can't pull a gun on you and then shoot you after you bear spray me and think I'm not getting charged with murder.

[RandomGuy]

ya man I agree...maga trash got what he asked for...you don't bring a squirt gun to a guy fight..the vids show he walked towards the security guard and initiated the aggression...the security guard just responded out of self defense...the security has a right to protect/defend himself if he feels a threat...CASE DISMISSED :tu


The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury

Seems like he had "reasonable ground to believe".

Doesn't matter of the gun was drawn first or not.

All he has to do is testify in court, "I thought he was going to mace me, then badly beat me up". MAGA dipshit was plenty angry and agressive.

Put it in front of a jury. Let the law work it out, but it seems "beyond reasonable doubt" is going to be a high bar here.

[RandomGuy]

:lmao

someone pulls a gun on you do you pull out your mace or turn and run?

:lmao

Once lethal force is displayed.. hands up and back off. Gun out is a sure sign someone is freaking out and either scared or angry. Seems pretty clear cut.

[baseline bum]

I can't pull a gun on you and then shoot you after you bear spray me and think I'm not getting charged with murder.

But I wouldn't be escalating this argument by coming over and slapping you around and then bear spraying you, correct?

[baseline bum]

Seems like he had "reasonable ground to believe".

Doesn't matter of the gun was drawn first or not.

All he has to do is testify in court, "I thought he was going to mace me, then badly beat me up". MAGA dipshit was plenty angry and agressive.

Put it in front of a jury. Let the law work it out, but it seems "beyond reasonable doubt" is going to be a high bar here.

Thought the thug was going to mace him? The thug did bear spray him.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't pull a gun on you and then shoot you after you bear spray me and think I'm not getting charged with murder.What if he had already bitch slapped your wife?

[TSA]

Seems like he had "reasonable ground to believe".

Doesn't matter of the gun was drawn first or not.

All he has to do is testify in court, "I thought he was going to mace me, then badly beat me up". MAGA dipshit was plenty angry and agressive.

Put it in front of a jury. Let the law work it out, but it seems "beyond reasonable doubt" is going to be a high bar here.

Shooter could have backed away when the other guy backed away. Instead he decided to pull his weapon on someone backing away. He's fucked. If he didn't pull his weapon I doubt the other guy deploys mace and both dipshits would be alive but now one is dead and the other is going down for murder one. When idiots collide.

[RandomGuy]

Hiring a person inclined to escalate matters rather than deescalate matters is not fulfilling duty of care. Nor would it be if he has an egregious criminal record (I saw something on that but didn't click).

There is no "duty of care" here man. The primary requirement of that is some sort of obligation from one party to another. You are absolutely misusing this here.

[ElNono]

:lol (omitting that the mace wasn't deployed until after the gun was drawn)

Didn't omit anything. Bringing Mace to a gunfight. :lol

Shoulda put his hands up instead of trying to stop a bullet with his face, tbh


(c) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302 , robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302 , sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 , or in section 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 and 18-3-203.

Why didn't you bold that, counselor?

[TSA]

Thought the thug was going to mace him? The thug did bear spray him.

Why did he mace him?

[ElNono]

Mace was deployed in response to gun being drawn first. After he backed up the only escalation was by the shooter.

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315875425923424257

drawing a gun is not the same as shooting the gun.

[RandomGuy]

Shooter could have backed away when the other guy backed away. Instead he decided to pull his weapon on someone backing away. He's fucked. If he didn't pull his weapon I doubt the other guy deploys mace and both dipshits would be alive but now one is dead and the other is going down for murder one. When idiots collide.

Welcome to your opinion. (shrugs) I am somewhat more dubious. These things never play out "cut and dried" in a court.

[ElNono]

Why did he mace him?

Because chubby is a fucking idiot. That's why I said his family's best case is to claim he had the mental age of a 8 years old.

[baseline bum]

Why did he mace him?

Because he's a thug piece of shit.

[TSA]

Didn't omit anything. Bringing Mace to a gunfight. :lol

Shoulda put his hands up instead of trying to stop a bullet with his face, tbh



Why didn't you bold that, counselor?

He wasn't assaulting him and was instead backing away.

I'd offer up an ELE bet to anyone who thinks he's getting off on self defense but after I won there would only be like 3 posters left here to converse with :lol

[baseline bum]

Shooter could have backed away when the other guy backed away. Instead he decided to pull his weapon on someone backing away. He's fucked. If he didn't pull his weapon I doubt the other guy deploys mace and both dipshits would be alive but now one is dead and the other is going down for murder one. When idiots collide.

Why is it doubtful? Trumptard thug already assaulted the security guard once.

[TSA]

Because he pulled a gun
FIFY

[baseline bum]

FIFY

But I wouldn't be escalating this argument by coming over and slapping you around and then bear spraying you, correct?

[ElNono]

He wasn't assaulting him and was instead backing away.

Lol no, the slap is assault, whether you like it or not.


I'd offer up an ELE bet to anyone who thinks he's getting off on self defense but after I won there would only be like 3 posters left here to converse with :lol

I'll do a sig bet on him not getting convicted for murder. Take it or leave it.

[TSA]

Lol no, the slap is assault, whether you like it or not.The assault was over and slapper backed away.




I'll do a sig bet on him not getting convicted for murder. Take it or leave it.

Good enough :bobo

[TSA]

But I wouldn't be escalating this argument by coming over and slapping you around and then bear spraying you, correct?

You keep leaving out the part where you slap me and back away and then I immediately pull a gun on you.

[ElNono]

The assault was over and slapper backed away.

That's not how it works. The assault doesn't just stop because they back away to fucking mace you.

He wanted to stop, he should just put his hands up. This is pretty clear. Chubby didn't stop, he doubled down on stupid and ate a bullet. It is what it is.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao 0.5 seconds later ASSAULT OVER FOREVER CHUD DINDU

[ElNono]

You keep leaving out the part where you slap me and back away and then I immediately pull a gun on you.

Pulling a gun after getting assaulted is not a crime.

[ElNono]

Good enough :bobo

We're on. Just so it's clear, this is past any appeals and the case concluded. Agree? :bobo

EDIT: Actually, let's do it on the trial. I doubt he'll win an appeal if found guilty of murder.

[pgardn]

Mace was deployed in response to gun being drawn first. After he backed up the only escalation was by the shooter.

https://twitter.com/ClownWorldNews1/status/1315875425923424257

Stupid people don't deserve to die.
But adding this fact makes him extremely stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

That's not how it works. The assault doesn't just stop because they back away to fucking mace you.

He wanted to stop, he should just put his hands up. This is pretty clear. Chubby didn't stop, he doubled down on stupid and ate a bullet. It is what it is.Literally, it seems from the pics.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ba/ba/b3/babab39f7236da1d494cd4284f543d15.gif

[RandomGuy]

the part where you slap me.

This made me giggle.

[TSA]

Pulling a gun after getting assaulted is not a crime.

Never said it was. The crime was using the gun to respond with unnecessary lethal force.

[TSA]

We're on. Just so it's clear, this is past any appeals and the case concluded. Agree? :bobo

EDIT: Actually, let's do it on the trial. I doubt he'll win an appeal if found guilty of murder.

:bobo

[Spurtacular]

There is no "duty of care" here man. The primary requirement of that is some sort of obligation from one party to another. You are absolutely misusing this here.

:lol Triggered soy boy

[TSA]

That's not how it works. The assault doesn't just stop because they back away to fucking mace you.

He wanted to stop, he should just put his hands up. This is pretty clear. Chubby didn't stop, he doubled down on stupid and ate a bullet. It is what it is.

Dead guy and a murder one charge. It is what it is.

[baseline bum]

Dead guy and a murder one charge. It is what it is.

So I should come de-escalate this argument by slapping you around and then bear spraying you, correct?

[TSA]

So I should come de-escalate this argument by slapping you around and then bear spraying you, correct?

What you should do is read up on self defense laws as you're currently making a fool out of yourself.

[weebo]

Because he's a thug piece of shit.


So I should come de-escalate this argument by slapping you around and then bear spraying you, correct?

that might get his panties wet :lol

[ChumpDumper]

So I should come de-escalate this argument by slapping you around and then bear spraying you, correct?As long as you take a step back in between.

ASSAULT OVAH!

[baseline bum]

What you should do is read up on self defense laws as you're currently making a fool out of yourself.

I'm not the one claiming assault is de-escalation son.

[Spurtacular]

I'm not the one claiming assault is de-escalation son.

Enjoy the murder trial.

[Trainwreck2100]

Nvm

[spurraider21]

murder 1 would be a very hard sell tbh :lol

a society with 2A and open carry means that the mere act of the guy drawing his gun, as long as he didnt brandish it it, isn't likely to be held against him. he didnt discharge until he was sprayed with mace.

bubba assaults shooter
shooter reaches for a weapon to protect himself from further assault
bubba reacts to that by continuing his assault (via mace)
shooter only then discharges to prevent further assault

hard sell for a murder charge imho

[ElNono]

Dead guy and a murder one charge. It is what it is.

:lol yeah, it's not happening

[ElNono]

:lol Triggered soy boy

Are you talking about dead chubby? :lol

[TSA]

murder 1 would be a very hard sell tbh :lol

a society with 2A and open carry means that the mere act of the guy drawing his gun, as long as he didnt brandish it it, isn't likely to be held against him. he didnt discharge until he was sprayed with mace.

bubba assaults shooter
shooter reaches for a weapon to protect himself from further assault
bubba reacts to that by continuing his assault (via mace)
shooter only then discharges to prevent further assault

hard sell for a murder charge imho

(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.

(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury;

[TSA]

Would love to see the same posters try and argue the same self defense claim of a man who pulled a gun on a woman after she slapped him and then shot her dead when she deployed mace upon seeing his gun pointed at her. You guys are a fucking joke :lol

[spurraider21]

(1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.

(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury;
i hear you. but it seems reasonable to believe that the person who just assaulted you and is now using mace to disorient you would take advantage of your defenseless state to cause great bodily injury

[Spurtacular]

Would love to see the same posters try and argue the same self defense claim of a man who pulled a gun on a woman after she slapped him and then shot her dead when she deployed mace upon seeing his gun pointed at her. You guys are a fucking joke :lol

NPCs don't have to think these things out.

[spurraider21]

Would love to see the same posters try and argue the same self defense claim of a man who pulled a gun on a woman after she slapped him and then shot her dead when she deployed mace upon seeing his gun pointed at her. You guys are a fucking joke :lol
im the same guy who said rittenhouse shouldnt be found guilty of murder, so im not ideologically fueled.

as to your scenario, it would depend if the circumstances could lead to a reasonable belief that the woman was about to cause great bodily injury

[spurraider21]

The fool did not deserve to die.
of course not. but what's "deserved" is not relevant unless you're in court. people get killed in self defense all the time, even if the assault/burglary being defended from would not bring with it a death penalty through the justice system

a woman would be justified in using lethal force to defend herself from rape even if the rape itself isnt punishable by death

[TSA]

im the same guy who said rittenhouse shouldnt be found guilty of murder, so im not ideologically fueled.

as to your scenario, it would depend if the circumstances could lead to a reasonable belief that the woman was about to cause great bodily injury

Comment wasn’t about you. I’ve seen you look at each situation fairly.

[ElNono]

Would love to see the same posters try and argue the same self defense claim of a man who pulled a gun on a woman after she slapped him and then shot her dead when she deployed mace upon seeing his gun pointed at her. You guys are a fucking joke :lol

This isn't about your feelings, tbh... we're all guessing here, we'll see what the jury finds, and we'll see what the prosecutors think they can get away with.

[baseline bum]

Would love to see the same posters try and argue the same self defense claim of a man who pulled a gun on a woman after she slapped him and then shot her dead when she deployed mace upon seeing his gun pointed at her. You guys are a fucking joke :lol

You think bear spraying a guy isn't escalation and you want to talk jokes.

[TSA]

im the same guy who said rittenhouse shouldnt be found guilty of murder, so im not ideologically fueled.

as to your scenario, it would depend if the circumstances could lead to a reasonable belief that the woman was about to cause great bodily injury

In this scenario the woman backed away after the slap and didn’t deploy mace until the gun was pointed at her. At that point the only person with a reasonable belief of great bodily injury is the woman with the gun pointed at her.

[ElNono]

If a woman bitchlaps derp and then pulls a can of bear mace, and derp is a security guard protecting other people, I'll have little issue if he gunned her down.

Like sr21, it all depends on the situation.

[ElNono]

In this scenario the woman backed away after the slap and didn’t deploy mace until the gun was pointed at her. At that point the only person with a reasonable belief of great bodily injury is the woman with the gun pointed at her.

She made the wrong choice. She should've put her hands up, police was just a few steps away.

[baseline bum]

If a woman bitchlaps derp and then pulls a can of bear mace, and derp is a security guard protecting other people, I'll have little issue if he gunned her down.

Like sr21, it all depends on the situation.

Not pulls a can, shoots a can of bear spray.

[TSA]

You think bear spraying a guy isn't escalation and you want to talk jokes.

Bear spray came after shooter escalated and drew his weapon. You can’t argue the sequence of events it was all caught on camera. Both people involved were dipshits but how big of a pussy do you have to be to draw and point a gun at someone after they bitchslapped you and backed off.

[Spurtacular]

im the same guy who said rittenhouse shouldnt be found guilty of murder, so im not ideologically fueled.

You still wanted to level some heavy charges on him IIRC.

[ElNono]

Not pulls a can, shoots a can of bear spray.

true. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

[ElNono]

Bear spray came after shooter escalated and drew his weapon. You can’t argue the sequence of events it was all caught on camera. Both people involved were dipshits but how big of a pussy do you have to be to draw and point a gun at someone after they bitchslapped you and backed off.

Don't get it mixed up. The escalation came with the slap. After that, it's all self-defense.

[TSA]

If a woman bitchlaps derp and then pulls a can of bear mace, and derp is a security guard protecting other people, I'll have little issue if he gunned her down.

Like sr21, it all depends on the situation.

Bear spray isn’t a lethal weapon.

[Spurtacular]

true. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...

Yup. Committed murder. Won himself a court date.

And that's just the starter prize.

[ElNono]

Bear spray isn’t a lethal weapon.

So? Assault doesn't require a lethal weapon.

Again, I know it's convenient for you to pretend nothing happened until the guy pulled the gun, but that's not what happened here.

[spurraider21]

You still wanted to level some heavy charges on him IIRC.
yeah... whatever firearm charges if appropriate, i dont know the specific state law or facts on how he got that gun in that state

and i thought attempted murder for the last person he shot, because that person wasn't reasonably a threat imo (as evidenced by the fact that rittenhouse actually had his gun trained on him, and paused for a couple of seconds, so it wasnt a bang-bang situation where i might have more sympathy)

i didnt think the two murder charges would stick

[TSA]

She made the wrong choice. She should've put her hands up, police was just a few steps away.

She feared for her life. And simple assault doesn’t justify murder.

[ElNono]

Yup. Committed murder. Won himself a court date.

And that's just the starter prize.

Sounds a lot better than chewing a bullet. Ask Chubby how's he doing.

[ElNono]

She feared for her life. And simple assault doesn’t justify murder.

That's not what the colorado law you posted says. Sorry.

[baseline bum]

Bear spray came after shooter escalated and drew his weapon. You can’t argue the sequence of events it was all caught on camera. Both people involved were dipshits but how big of a pussy do you have to be to draw and point a gun at someone after they bitchslapped you and backed off.

There was more than one escalation. You can't realistically argue assaulting someone with bear spray isn't escalation.

[TSA]

So? Assault doesn't require a lethal weapon.

Again, I know it's convenient for you to pretend nothing happened until the guy pulled the gun, but that's not what happened here.

Again, simple assault doesn’t justify murder.

[spurraider21]

Bear spray came after shooter escalated and drew his weapon. You can’t argue the sequence of events it was all caught on camera. Both people involved were dipshits but how big of a pussy do you have to be to draw and point a gun at someone after they bitchslapped you and backed off.
is she a random woman you've never seen before who has been hostile/aggressive? is she your wife of x years who you know has never hurt a fly, etc.

circumstances would tell the story.

[ElNono]

Again, simple assault doesn’t justify murder.

Again, that's not what the Colorado law you posted here says.

As I said, ultimately it's going to boil down to what prosecutors think they can prove, and what the jury thinks.

[Spurtacular]

Don't get it mixed up. The escalation came with the slap. After that, it's all self-defense.

The slap came as or after he was reaching for his spray.

And even then, both were moving backwards and they were distanced thereby mitigating a threat, which was not lethal, anyways.

Dat an execution, bro. Come to terms.

[RD2191]

Bear spray came after shooter escalated and drew his weapon. You can’t argue the sequence of events it was all caught on camera. Both people involved were dipshits but how big of a pussy do you have to be to draw and point a gun at someone after they bitchslapped you and backed off.
Please stop posting. You're a fucking retard if you believe anything of what you just wrote. Did the shooter go up to dead man and confront him first? NO. Did shooter assault the dead man first? NO. Did shooter escalate the situation by pulling out mace to try and injure the dead man? NO. The shooter simply defended himself after being assaulted.

[spurraider21]

spraying somebody while walking backwards is still escalation

[ElNono]

The slap came as or after he was reaching for his spray.

And even then, both were moving backwards and they were distanced thereby mitigating a threat, which was not lethal, anyways.

Dat an execution, bro. Come to terms.

lol stop making shit up. He assaulted the guy, ate a bullet. Pretty clear cut, IMVHO.

[benefactor]

Please stop posting. You're a fucking retard if you believe anything of what you just wrote. Did the shooter go up to dead man and confront him first? NO. Did shooter assault the dead man first? NO. Did shooter escalate the situation by pulling out mace to try and injure the dead man? NO. The shooter simply defended himself after being assaulted.
He's trolling tbh

[TSA]

There was more than one escalation. You can't realistically argue assaulting someone with bear spray isn't escalation.

Initial escalation and assault were by dead guy. Dead guy backed away and still had mace at his side. Second escalation was by shooter in drawing weapon and pointing it. He should have just backed away when the other guy backed away.

[baseline bum]

Please stop posting. You're a fucking retard if you believe anything of what you just wrote. Did the shooter go up to dead man and confront him first? NO. Did shooter assault the dead man first? NO. Did shooter escalate the situation by pulling out mace to try and injure the dead man? NO. The shooter simply defended himself after being assaulted.

LOL the thug slapped him and then backed up so he could spray him without getting himself. Last thought in his mind was no doubt 'i'm a show this librul faggot, he ain't gon shoot' as he sprayed him. Oops, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Spurtacular]

yeah... whatever firearm charges if appropriate, i dont know the specific state law or facts on how he got that gun in that state

and i thought attempted murder for the last person he shot, because that person wasn't reasonably a threat imo (as evidenced by the fact that rittenhouse actually had his gun trained on him, and paused for a couple of seconds, so it wasnt a bang-bang situation where i might have more sympathy)

i didnt think the two murder charges would stick

The firearm is reportedly a state resident friend's of his IIRC. Also, KR lives within 20 minutes, so I would imagine the law is either written to allow for that or is enforced in that manner. Common sense would tell me that; but I haven't researched it.

And the last attacker stupidly ran right towards him and into his vicinity. So, even if you're claiming he had "surrendered", he then made that null by being a dumb ass.

[baseline bum]

Initial escalation and assault were by dead guy. Dead guy backed away and still had mace at his side. Second escalation was by shooter in drawing weapon and pointing it. He should have just backed away when the other guy backed away.

Third escalation was thug bear spraying security guard. Don't know what's so hard to see about this.

[spurraider21]

LOL the thug slapped him and then backed up so he could spray him without getting himself. Last thought in his mind was no doubt 'i'm a show this librul faggot, he ain't gon shoot' as he sprayed him. Oops, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
this

[TSA]

spraying somebody while walking backwards is still escalation

Pulling a gun on someone backing away who isn’t spraying you is escalation. And it doesn’t matter if spraying someone while backing up is escalation, lethal force at that point is not lawful. Bear spray isn’t considered lethal.

[TSA]

LOL the thug slapped him and then backed up so he could spray him without getting himself. Last thought in his mind was no doubt 'i'm a show this librul faggot, he ain't gon shoot' as he sprayed him. Oops, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

They both won stupid prizes.

[spurraider21]

The firearm is reportedly a state resident friend's of his IIRC. Also, KR lives within 20 minutes, so I would imagine the law is either written to allow for that or is enforced in that manner. Common sense would tell me that; but I haven't researched it.

And the last attacker stupidly ran right towards him and into his vicinity. So, even if you're claiming he had "surrendered", he then made that null by being a dumb ass.
well yeah, he reached for the sky, stopped, and kyle didnt shoot (which tbh actually showed remarkable restraint given what had just happened). but then the guy obviously didnt just want to stand there in perpetuity with a gun drawn him, so he tried moving away toward the sidewalk at which point rittenhouse panicked and shot him, which you just cant do

[ElNono]

LOL the thug slapped him and then backed up so he could spray him without getting himself. Last thought in his mind was no doubt 'i'm a show this librul faggot, he ain't gon shoot' as he sprayed him. Oops, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

That's exactly what I see too. He's almost daring 'librul faggot' to shoot him. He lost that bet.

[ElNono]

They both won stupid prizes.

Not really. Not yet anyways.

[spurraider21]

Pulling a gun on someone backing away who isn’t spraying you is escalation. And it doesn’t matter if spraying someone while backing up is escalation, lethal force at that point is not lawful. Bear spray isn’t considered lethal.
in a perfect world i would probably agree with you. in a 2A, open carry world, its not, unless he was brandishing it. dont think from the rapid photos we can demonstrate that he was brandishing it discernibly before bubba maced him

[ChumpDumper]

Don't get it mixed up. The escalation came with the slap. After that, it's all self-defense.NO NO NO THE ASSAULT WAS COMPLETELY OVER FOR A WHOLE LESS THAN A SECOND

[ElNono]

Pulling a gun on someone backing away who isn’t spraying you is escalation. And it doesn’t matter if spraying someone while backing up is escalation, lethal force at that point is not lawful. Bear spray isn’t considered lethal.

You seem to be confused about this. There's absolutely nothing wrong/illegal about pulling a gun after you've been attacked. Nothing. You seem very, very confused about this particular topic.

Shooting the gun afterwards, that's way more debatable.

[Spurtacular]

well yeah, he reached for the sky, stopped, and kyle didnt shoot (which tbh actually showed remarkable restraint given what had just happened). but then the guy obviously didnt just want to stand there in perpetuity with a gun drawn him, so he tried moving away toward the sidewalk at which point rittenhouse panicked and shot him, which you just cant do

He was an established attacker at that point. He ran within mere feet of him and towards him instead of backing away. That's an imminent threat. You'll notice Kyle didn't shoot the guy who had his hands up and was backing away.

Also, the dumb ass claimed afterwards that he wished he had killed Kyle. So good luck finding a sympathetic jury on that one in the second place.

[RD2191]

LOL the thug slapped him and then backed up so he could spray him without getting himself. Last thought in his mind was no doubt 'i'm a show this librul faggot, he ain't gon shoot' as he sprayed him. Oops, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Plus a fucking slap? reminds me of this Chappelle's Show classic. :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FmYmdGRONI

[spurraider21]

He was an established attacker at that point. He ran within mere feet of him and towards him instead of backing away. That's an imminent threat. You'll notice Kyle didn't shoot the guy who had his hands up and was backing away.

Also, the dumb ass claimed afterwards that he wished he had killed Kyle. So good luck finding a sympathetic jury on that one in the second place.
how is he an established attacker if he never attacked him?

and yeah if some kid shot me after i surrendered id regret having surrendered too

[Spurtacular]

That's exactly what I see too. He's almost daring 'librul faggot' to shoot him. He lost that bet.

:lol "Daring."

In the second place, I'm not sure he even knew the guy had a gun. It was concealed up until the moment of murder.