The Rented Airport Radisson Ballroom of Devin Vassell

[mo7888]

The fact that he's not yet a RFA doesn't mean he's not looking at the market. If everybody's price is going up, he's not going to let that piece of information slide when setting his market value.

True, but he also has to weigh that against his injury risk in waiting an extra year...on top of the fact that he'd be a RFA at that point and the Spurs could match.

[spurraider21]

I still don't see him as a big impact player but he is a great complementary player to a star.
he's also still about to turn 23 and showed a pretty sizeable improvement this past year

scoring leap while actually improving his shooting efficiency, but most notably getting his assists to 3.6 is no small thing for a wing, especially for a guy who wasnt particularly aggressive attacking the rim and getting to the line. once he adds that to his game, the assists will climb as well.

his defense has been disappointing given his reputation around the time he was drafted

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurs will want to do a Keldon-type contract, Vassell’s agent will look for something like Herro’s.

They’ll probably meet in the middle.

[Ariel]

Spurs will want to do a Keldon-type contract, Vassell’s agent will look for something like Herro’s.

They’ll probably meet in the middle.
To put numbers on it:
KJ: 74 (guaranteed) + 6 (incentives)
Herro: 120 (guaranteed) + 10 (incentives)
Middle: 97 (guaranteed) + 8 (incentives)
Definitely not unreasonable.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmKvBSdJsKA

[buttsR4rebounding]

To put numbers on it:
KJ: 74 (guaranteed) + 6 (incentives)
Herro: 120 (guaranteed) + 10 (incentives)
Middle: 97 (guaranteed) + 8 (incentives)
Definitely not unreasonable.

I bet the Spurs look to lock him up for 5 years. Something like 120 million for 5 years front end loaded.

[John B]

With Wemby taking some of the looks, and more as the season progresses, we’ll see players getting better looks, especially Devin playing the SG. I said last year that he would be a MIP candidate, but last season was a tank season and the mysterious injuries didn’t help. I think this season Devin will far eclipse the 20 pts average (especially on a contract year), and will be a serious candidate for an All-Star with Wemby. I like Keldon but Devin has the more complete game. I’m really excited with how much competitive the Spurs will be this season. All eyes will be focused on Wemby, and it will be great for Devin to take advantage of the looks he’ll get. And as a prolific score, Devin will take the most advantage.

[slick'81]

Nothing like a generational talent to make devins life alot easier

[John B]

Nothing like a generational talent to make devins life alot easier

It will be like a KD/Booker with Wemby/Vassell as Spurs 1st and 2nd options.

[slick'81]

It will be like a KD/Booker with Wemby/Vassell as Spurs 1st and 2nd options.

im with ya! Vassell is going to takeoff this season on the offensive end. Im just waiting for his defense to come around

[C-Dub]

Anyone paying attention to Vassell this past season would of noticed that his leg injury was a real thing and hampered his game during g that time. He tried playing through it but he wasn't as explosive or fluid. Had nothing to do with not getting playing due to tanking. If not for his injury, Vassell would've average over 20ppg this past season. If he's completely healed this upcoming season, get ready for at least 23ppg from Devin. He will the Spurs leading scorer this year, with KJ being a close second, averaging about 23ppg as well.

[slick'81]

25 ppg or bust for vass

[Vince Carter's ankle]

1673856172560924672

[cutewizard]

Hmmmm

[cutewizard]

Does he have Kawhi potential?

[Mugen]

The extensions that Bane and Halliburton just got are going to very interesting in how it impacts Devin's new deal...

Just stirring the pot here obviously but Devin wasn't at Wemby's press conference (Sochan and Keldon were). Devin follows Sidy on IG but not Wemby. Devin wasn't thrilled during all the tank for Wemby talk last year.....:lol

I still think Devin gets locked up on an extension but if they're super far apart on #s, is it still an absolute slam dunk that the deal gets it done? :stirpot:

[exstatic]

Anyone paying attention to Vassell this past season would of noticed that his leg injury was a real thing and hampered his game during g that time. He tried playing through it but he wasn't as explosive or fluid. Had nothing to do with not getting playing due to tanking. If not for his injury, Vassell would've average over 20ppg this past season. If he's completely healed this upcoming season, get ready for at least 23ppg from Devin. He will the Spurs leading scorer this year, with KJ being a close second, averaging about 23ppg as well.

He was scoped, so it was a legit injury…right up until he came back. Any time after that was tank time.

[offset formation]

Good question actually. I think Banes deal muddied the waters sufficiently that if he demands being in even similar kind of money range, I could see the Spurs getting what they can for him...especially if he's not joving with Wembanyama

[Extra Stout]

Advanced stats, combined last two seasons:

VORP: Halliburton 7.5, Bane 5.2, Vassell 1.4
WS/48: Halliburton .182, Bane .152, Vassell .063

Vassell is not getting the money those guys are getting unless he becomes the type of player that they are. If that happens, having to pay him accordingly is a great problem to have because it means the Spurs have a second star.

[C-Dub]

Devin Vassell is, as Austin Reeves mentioned about himself, "I'm Him". Vassell is "HIM". If not for injury last season (which was 100% real), he would have shown great progression. Don't sleep on Vassell, he's like a Kobe - Black Mamba lite. If his knee injury isn't chronic, he's "HIM". Mark my words. Anyone on this site, saying - "they downplayed his injury to tank" should go back and watch film of this past season when Vassell was healthy and after the knee injury, notice the difference of his movement. Vassell is "HIM" and will show the naysayers this upcoming season, unless the knee issue is chronic. Spurs should play the wait and see, before offering the extension, and make sure it's not chronic.

[jermaine]

I'm definitely a Devin Vassell homer.. He's never mentioned along with KJ, Sochan, an Wemby. It bothers me sooo sooo much when he's not. I be like they need to go back an watch his film. He's a boss, he's not supposed to be ok with a tank.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Devin will have a better season than Keldon next year. As he should, Devin was picked 11th overall for a reason. I expect big things from him going into his 4th season.

[jermaine]

Devin will have a better season than Keldon next year. As he should, Devin was picked 11th overall for a reason. I expect big things from him going into his 4th season.

Let the church say Amen

[wildbill2u]

Is he a better fit at SG or SF? I think he can be used at either interchangeably, but may work out better for the rotations as a starting SG.

[CGD]

Is it weird we haven’t heard anything about his extension?

[Mr. Body]

Is it weird we haven’t heard anything about his extension?

They're probably pretty busy.

[Ariel]

Is it weird we haven’t heard anything about his extension?
I don't think it's weird, there's no rush and given the flurry of money thrown around he probably wants the same and the Spurs would do well to hold their ground. If they are going to have to pay him more than 120M/5 years, then he should take the QO and prove he deserves it first.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I think most extensions seem to be announced right before the season starts. If the Spurs aren't worried about his knee then they should lock him up for 5 years if they can get a team friendly deal. Otherwise, let him go to RFA and make sure everyone knows that the Spurs will match any offer. Try to front load the deal so it interferes as little as possible with bringing in a star if and when that opportunity presents itself. It seems like the Spurs are probably looking for something like 5/110 if they can get it.

[exstatic]

Is it weird we haven’t heard anything about his extension?

No. Both Dejounte and White signed theirs on the last possible day in October, and we never heard a thing before the signing announcement.

[exstatic]

I don't think it's weird, there's no rush and given the flurry of money thrown around he probably wants the same and the Spurs would do well to hold their ground. If they are going to have to pay him more than 120M/5 years, then he should take the QO and prove he deserves it first.

He’s going into his 4th year, not his 5th. There’s no qualifying offer, he’s already under contract for next year. If they don’t reach an extension agreement, he simply enters restricted free agency when they extend a qualifying offer NEXT summer.

[spurraider21]

No. Both Dejounte and White signed theirs on the last possible day in October, and we never heard a thing before the signing announcement.
White signed his in December

[Ariel]

He’s going into his 4th year, not his 5th. There’s no qualifying offer, he’s already under contract for next year. If they don’t reach an extension agreement, he simply enters restricted free agency when they extend a qualifying offer NEXT summer.
Yes, I know but I didn't express myself clearly: if he doesn't want to extend, he should play out his contract and (next year) enter restricted free agency with qualifying offer being tendered, the same way DeAndre Ayton did.

[timvp]

White signed his in December

That was the season that started late due to COVID. White and Murray got their extensions on the last possible day.

[spurraider21]

That was the season that started late due to COVID. White and Murray got their extensions on the last possible day.
ah damn, i forgot about that. thanks

[CGD]

He’s going into his 4th year, not his 5th. There’s no qualifying offer, he’s already under contract for next year. If they don’t reach an extension agreement, he simply enters restricted free agency when they extend a qualifying offer NEXT summer.

So basically Keldon was an outlier by signing so early then.

[exstatic]

So basically Keldon was an outlier by signing so early then.

Yes.

[Mugen]

Man, I hope Devin re-ups and has a great season next year. Because Haliburton would have been an absolute perfect fit next to Wemby :lol

[exstatic]

Man, I hope Devin re-ups and has a great season next year. Because Haliburton would have been an absolute perfect fit next to Wemby :lol

We're only the SECOND dumbest team when it comes to Haliburton.

[poopbox]

Man, I hope Devin re-ups and has a great season next year. Because Haliburton would have been an absolute perfect fit next to Wemby :lol

Haliburton just signed for 260 million dollars? Do you think he is THAT Good? Or do you somehow magically think the Spurs would have gotten him for half of that price or something?

[Mugen]

Haliburton just signed for 260 million dollars? Do you think he is THAT Good? Or do you somehow magically think the Spurs would have gotten him for half of that price or something?

Yeah, I think he's deserving of that max extension tbh. Nobody said anything about price/contract/etc. tbh :lol

[exstatic]

Haliburton just signed for 260 million dollars? Do you think he is THAT Good? Or do you somehow magically think the Spurs would have gotten him for half of that price or something?

There are smart analysts who think he has an MVP in his future.

[Obstructed_View]

We're only the SECOND dumbest team when it comes to Haliburton.
And I think I'd lay most of that on fans and not on the team.

[scott]

I like Haliburton A LOT but if we draft Haliburton and Sengun instead of Devin and Primo, Wemby isn't a Spur and we're having silly conversations about shit like whether Dillon Brooks could be the piece of the puzzle that pushes us beyond the play-in game.

[tonight...you]

I like Haliburton A LOT but if we draft Haliburton and Sengun instead of Devin and Primo, Wemby isn't a Spur and we're having silly conversations about shit like whether Dillon Brooks could be the piece of the puzzle that pushes us beyond the play-in game.
I agree. Sometimes the road to Serendipity is paved with mistakes.
Maybe purposeful, sometimes not.

[Dejounte]

Had to work out this way. This is how Dr. Strange saw how it would turn out tbh

[poopbox]

There are smart analysts who think he has an MVP in his future.

of what? The in season tournament? The play-in?

Haliburton as a league MVP? :lmao

[poopbox]

I like Haliburton A LOT but if we draft Haliburton and Sengun instead of Devin and Primo, Wemby isn't a Spur and we're having silly conversations about shit like whether Dillon Brooks could be the piece of the puzzle that pushes us beyond the play-in game.

Wemby being a spur increased their chances of being good but it doesn't guarantee anything.

One could make the argument that if we had Haliburton, Sengun, and signed Dylan Brooks...we would be better than a team who got Wemby in his rookie year tbh.

If we would have done the logically thing and just held on to Kawhi until the Lakers or Kings folded we could have SGA and Chet or Ja and Jaren or any combo of young talented players you can build a great team around tbh.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmKvBSdJsKA

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixJe7GmMAdE

[cutewizard]

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-BMZh_dKO0

[spurraider21]

long thread

really hope we get him locked up

1681399635125075968

[RC_Drunkford]

I keep saying he can be a legit 2nd option, but somehow spurstalk thinks our roster is garbage

[slick'81]

Devin isn't going anywhere. Dude will get paid by sa

[Mr. Body]

I keep saying he can be a legit 2nd option, but somehow spurstalk thinks our roster is garbage

Lol seriously.

Vassell is the reason there's no interest in Herro. I mean, other than culture fit, no defense, etc. We've got our shooting guard.

[BacktoBasics]

Lol seriously.

Vassell is the reason there's no interest in Herro. I mean, other than culture fit, no defense, etc. We've got our shooting guard.

Yes. Vassell is likely to take a second leap if the team stays relatively healthy.

[RC_Drunkford]

Lol seriously.

Vassell is the reason there's no interest in Herro. I mean, other than culture fit, no defense, etc. We've got our shooting guard.

Look into some of these other threads and you‘ll see plenty people thinking we‘re worse than the Utah Jazz. Also there are enough people here who want Herro

[spurraider21]

Lol seriously.

Vassell is the reason there's no interest in Herro. I mean, other than culture fit, no defense, etc. We've got our shooting guard.
vassell has bulked up over the years and has good enough length to play the 3 if they really wanted him to

i think herro and vassell could easily co-exist if they wanted to bring him over. but i havent really seen any indication the spurs have interest

[CGD]

long thread

really hope we get him locked up

1681399635125075968

Not saying this Twitter dude is influential or anything, but I always chuckle when these types of “articles” come out when a player is in contract negotiations.

That said, I love Vassell and have high hopes for him.

[spurraider21]

Not saying this Twitter dude is influential or anything, but I always chuckle when these types of “articles” come out when a player is in contract negotiations.

That said, I love Vassell and have high hopes for him.
this twitter dude has about 1000 followers, so no influence.

and his most recent thread is about andrew nembhard, who is going into his 2nd season

[JPB]

Also reason why I see more than 30 wins next year... Some guys are gonna take leaps (Devin, Malaki, Keldon, Champagnie, Barlow..), specially with Wemby around.

[scott]

I think Herro is better than Vassell, but I'm ready to be wrong.

[spurraider21]

I think Herro is better than Vassell, but I'm ready to be wrong.
herro has been the better player thus far. more proven, and has had good playoff moments too. herro is a legit flamethrower SG. volume scorer with efficient outside shooting and reasonable playmaking.

vassell seems to have more room for growth because of his defensive upside, better length/strength which allow him to be a better iso scorer as well. vassell is coming off a lousy year on defense though, he has to make sure that he bounces back on that end. his increased skill offensively was very obvious last year, but it cant come at the expense of defensive effort. maybe having a rim protector like wemby motivates him

herro's contract is 4/140 which he signed a year ago. i dont think anybody expects vassell to average 35 mil per year on this next deal... unless he decides to forego an extension and have a career year, setting himself up for restricted free agency

[exstatic]

herro has been the better player thus far. more proven, and has had good playoff moments too. herro is a legit flamethrower SG. volume scorer with efficient outside shooting and reasonable playmaking.

vassell seems to have more room for growth because of his defensive upside, better length/strength which allow him to be a better iso scorer as well. vassell is coming off a lousy year on defense though, he has to make sure that he bounces back on that end. his increased skill offensively was very obvious last year, but it cant come at the expense of defensive effort. maybe having a rim protector like wemby motivates him

herro's contract is 4/140 which he signed a year ago. i dont think anybody expects vassell to average 35 mil per year on this next deal... unless he decides to forego an extension and have a career year, setting himself up for restricted free agency

Hero’s contract is 4/$120M, not 4/$140M.

[John B]

https://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiwhttps://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiw

Vassell working with KD will be huge.

https://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiw

(I can’t figure to include the twitter images :lol)

[Extra Stout]

https://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiwhttps://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiw

Vassell working with KD will be huge.

https://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiw

(I can’t figure to include the twitter images :lol)
Yes, if one wants to be an elite #2 player, a Beta to someone else’s Alpha, there is no better tutor than Kevin Durant.

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiwhttps://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiw

Vassell working with KD will be huge.

https://twitter.com/spurs_latam/status/1685037364182196226?s=46&t=Vdyt4ZzebHLEjAFoqhTLiw

(I can’t figure to include the twitter images :lol)

Just embed the tweet, as below, but remove the spaces.

[ tweet ] big long number string from tweet URL [ / tweet ]

1685037364182196226

[exstatic]

Yes, if one wants to be an elite #2 player, a Beta to someone else’s Alpha, there is no better tutor than Kevin Durant.

Isn’t that kind of what player type we need to pair with Wemby?

[Extra Stout]

Isn’t that kind of what player type we need to pair with Wemby?
Yes! And whether it’s deferring to Russell Westbrook, gravy-training off Steph Curry, laying back in favor of Kyrie Irving, or playing Robin to Devin Booker’s Batman, nobody has filled that role with as much talented aplomb as Kevin Durant. He’s maybe the greatest second fiddle of all time, greater even than Scottie Pippen.

I’d advise Devin not to start creating burner accounts on social media to argue on his own behalf, though.

[John B]

Just embed the tweet, as below, but remove the spaces.

[ tweet ] big long number string from tweet URL [ / tweet ]

1685037364182196226

What I see on these pictures is Devin under tutelage of one of the top scorers the league have seen. Devin is already a fine scorer, but to get that extra ump, that All-Star vibe, the goto guy, to demand the ball more and feel the weight of winning on his shoulders, Mamba mentality or whatever it may be.

I predicted last year would be a MIP. But the injury happened and the “tanking” happened. He jumped from averaging 12 pts the previous year to 18 pts (I was expecting more). I think he would average mid 20’s and will elected to AS. His stats will be higher. I just don’t know if they would be dramatic to warrant an MIP bid.

[RC_Drunkford]

I saw the video on IG. Looks like Devin is adding a little bit of muscle too

[exstatic]

What I see on these pictures is Devin under tutelage of one of the top scorers the league have seen. Devin is already a fine scorer, but to get that extra ump, that All-Star vibe, the goto guy, to demand the ball more and feel the weight of winning on his shoulders, Mamba mentality or whatever it may be.

I predicted last year would be a MIP. But the injury happened and the “tanking” happened. He jumped from averaging 12 pts the previous year to 18 pts (I was expecting more). I think he would average mid 20’s and will elected to AS. His stats will be higher. I just don’t know if they would be dramatic to warrant an MIP bid.

I think the only Spurs elected to an AS team were Tim, David, and Ice. IIRC, Sean, Manu, and Tony were coaches choices. It’s a popularity contest, and we’re not that popular. It’ll be a huge uphill battle for anyone other than Wemby to be elected. Not saying we won’t have other All Stars, but they’ll likely be coaches choices.

[slick'81]

Spurs are going to have to win to get multiple players in other than wemby

[Mr. Body]

Devin will gain the ability to bat the ball back in bounds while clearly being about six feet out of bounds and not have the referee, staring right at him, not do a damn thing.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm excited to see Devin's development this year. The expectation is shifting from tanking, to winning, and with that I think we'll see winners step up and I think Devin is that.

[ambchang]

If Josh Hart is signing for 4 years / $81M, there is no chance Vassell goes less than 4 years/$100M.

[Bruno]

Vassell cap hold will be $17.7M next summer. If Spurs' plan is to go after free agents next summer, an extension will cut some of their cap space.

$100M/4 years with a flat structure seems to be a fair deal for both sides in the current market. If Vassell's camp is looking for more, I'm not sure Spurs should offer it. It will also be interesting to see what extension Immanuel Quickley get from Knicks to have a better idea about Devin's value.

[CGD]

It’s a pretty crappy FA class next summer though. I’m OK spending it on our guys (Vassell and Collins).

[BacktoBasics]

Vassell cap hold will be $17.7M next summer. If Spurs' plan is to go after free agents next summer, an extension will cut some of their cap space.

$100M/4 years with a flat structure seems to be a fair deal for both sides in the current market. If Vassell's camp is looking for more, I'm not sure Spurs should offer it. It will also be interesting to see what extension Immanuel Quickley get from Knicks to have a better idea about Devin's value.

This place had people wanting to argue for 100+ million with a straight face for Reaves. Now I’m not arguing that Vassell is better or worse than Reaves but I’m much more comfortable with Vassell slightly exceeding 100 million than I ever would have been with Reaves.

If Vassell even just has a slightly better season he’ll be well within line for what you’re suggesting. If not slightly more. I was very pleased with his progress last season despite the games missed to injury which I believe was somewhat exaggerated due to the tank.

[ismael-robert]

Difference is Reaves filled a need in likely being a starting pg day 1...people being able to fill sg is likely our deepest position

[BacktoBasics]

Difference is Reaves filled a need in likely being a starting pg day 1...people being able to fill sg is likely our deepest position

At best Reaves is a jack of all trades elite level glue guy who can fill various gaps. He’s not a pg on either end of the traditional archetype spectrum. He’s not a distributor or floor general. At least not now. He can defend the position for the most part. I’ll give him that.

We can find our pg over the next couple of seasons. There should be no sense of urgency to do it now by shoe horning a guy like Reaves.

[SpurSpike]

Everyone acting like he is a proven commodity. I want to see a solid healthy season before offering 100 million. It's likely he may be worth that money but I don't feel he has really proven it quite yet.

[BacktoBasics]

Everyone acting like he is a proven commodity. I want to see a solid healthy season before offering 100 million. It's likely he may be worth that money but I don't feel he has really proven it quite yet.

As much as I think this is fair he’s had great growth in each of his seasons. He’s more proven than Reaves. He had a really nice leap last year. Borderline MIP. I think had the team not been in tank mode he would have played more games. Easiest way to tank is to hold out your best players as long as possible with injuries.

[scott]

I'm not even as high on Vassell as others here, but 4/$100 is a bargain for him in the current NBA Economy.

There is a decent point to be made about doing the same thing we did with Nephew and not extending now in order to go into FA with more cap space due to his cap hold (we did this to sign LMA) and then signing Devin next offseason. With that said, next year's FA class will probably be just as shitty as this one was, and we're currently projected to go into the offseason with $78MM in cap space anyway. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/2024/

[KingKev]

4yrs 100m is a very fair deal. As some have suggested it’ll be a steal if front loaded. I’m still not convinced on his so called 3&D capabilities but there is still time for him to become a plus defender and the offensive game is already there.

[Mr. Body]

I figure the Spurs FO isn't going by what fans see on the telly and see him, you know, in practice and scrimmages. Joined with what they've seen with countless other players, they might know how good he is.

[Drom John]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR

21 Jamal Murray
22 Austin Reaves
23 Brook Lopez

32 Anthony Edwards
33 Josh Hart
34 Immanuel Quickley

181 Troy Brown Jr., Andre Drummond, Jalen Green, Aaron Holiday, Derek Jones Jr., Grant Williams
187 Devin Vassel
188 Devonte' Graham, Javonte Green, Trey Lyles, Mike Muscala, Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell Westbrook

[J_Paco]

At best Reaves is a jack of all trades elite level glue guy who can fill various gaps. He’s not a pg on either end of the traditional archetype spectrum. He’s not a distributor or floor general. At least not now. He can defend the position for the most part. I’ll give him that.

We can find our pg over the next couple of seasons. There should be no sense of urgency to do it now by shoe horning a guy like Reaves.

Wow, a sensible and well thought out opinion on our PG situation.

People's incessant need to find the team's "PG of the future" before Vic's first season is becoming annoying, TBH.

I'd rather roll the dice with one more season of Jones at PG and see if either Vassell and/or Branham (with the even longer shot of Wesley) can become a secondary ball handler/playmaker.

[J_Paco]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR

21 Jamal Murray
22 Austin Reaves
23 Brook Lopez

32 Anthony Edwards
33 Josh Hart
34 Immanuel Quickley

181 Troy Brown Jr., Andre Drummond, Jalen Green, Aaron Holiday, Derek Jones Jr., Grant Williams
187 Devin Vassel
188 Devonte' Graham, Javonte Green, Trey Lyles, Mike Muscala, Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell Westbrook

Context is needed when looking at Reaves' gaudy advanced stats. He got to play off of two of the 10 - 15 best players in the NBA (who's "gravity" greatly improved his shot quality) while Vassell played on a team that's 2nd best player was an undersized SF, who was a bottom ten defender.

The other two best players (Poeltl & Sochan) were offensively limited, some would say liabilities, while the team defense was the worse it's ever been.

If Vic can be the 'game changer' he's hyped up to be that could make things much easier for Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Collins and Branham.

Basically, it's how Rui Hachimura went from a 'huge disappointment'/bust in DC to the second coming of Antawn Jamison playing off of LeBron + Davis in LA.

[Fireball]

I just wanna see a season of Vassell without further niggling knee problems ... play 70+ games ... then 100 million for four years is no problem

[John B]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR

21 Jamal Murray
22 Austin Reaves
23 Brook Lopez

32 Anthony Edwards
33 Josh Hart
34 Immanuel Quickley

181 Troy Brown Jr., Andre Drummond, Jalen Green, Aaron Holiday, Derek Jones Jr., Grant Williams
187 Devin Vassel
188 Devonte' Graham, Javonte Green, Trey Lyles, Mike Muscala, Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell Westbrook

Just another motivation for Devin. Let’s revisit that list next year

[Mr. Body]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR

21 Jamal Murray
22 Austin Reaves
23 Brook Lopez

32 Anthony Edwards
33 Josh Hart
34 Immanuel Quickley

181 Troy Brown Jr., Andre Drummond, Jalen Green, Aaron Holiday, Derek Jones Jr., Grant Williams
187 Devin Vassel
188 Devonte' Graham, Javonte Green, Trey Lyles, Mike Muscala, Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell Westbrook

These always make me laugh. Like Austin Reaves was anywhere close to Urray or Lopez. Or you'd take him over Edwards.

[exstatic]

These always make me laugh. Like Austin Reaves was anywhere close to Urray or Lopez. Or you'd take him over Edwards.

I would take him over Edwards in a minute, because Edwards is an idiot, and beyond self absorbed. His refusal to come off the bench for a few weeks for the USMNT just punched his ticket off of the Olympic team.

[Macca76]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR

21 Jamal Murray
22 Austin Reaves
23 Brook Lopez

32 Anthony Edwards
33 Josh Hart
34 Immanuel Quickley

181 Troy Brown Jr., Andre Drummond, Jalen Green, Aaron Holiday, Derek Jones Jr., Grant Williams
187 Devin Vassel
188 Devonte' Graham, Javonte Green, Trey Lyles, Mike Muscala, Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell Westbrook

I assume this takes into account the games or minutes played ? Which would explain the ranking of Devin (and KAT also) ?

[Mnky]

I would take him over Edwards in a minute, because Edwards is an idiot, and beyond self absorbed. His refusal to come off the bench for a few weeks for the USMNT just punched his ticket off of the Olympic team.

How's that bias working for ya

[exstatic]

How's that bias working for ya

Just fine. My two lasting memories of Ant are a game against us where he dunked, and then turned to the baseline and sideline, and flexed for the crowd. Meanwhile Tre motioned urgently for the inbounds, drove the court, and got us an easy 5 on 4 bucket because of Mr. Flex. In another game, he was almost at the franchise scoring record, and his coach left him in for 3 minutes, and he kept jacking 3 pointers. All he needed was a fucking free throw. He didn’t get the record.

Idiot.

[spurraider21]

Austin Reaves over Anthony Edwards is definitely a take

[Mnky]

Just fine. My two lasting memories of Ant are a game against us where he dunked, and then turned to the baseline and sideline, and flexed for the crowd. Meanwhile Tre motioned urgently for the inbounds, drove the court, and got us an easy 5 on 4 bucket because of Mr. Flex. In another game, he was almost at the franchise scoring record, and his coach left him in for 3 minutes, and he kept jacking 3 pointers. All he needed was a fucking free throw. He didn’t get the record.

Idiot.

So you'd rather not talk about being completely wrong about Ant on the Olympic team.

Got it.

[exstatic]

So you'd rather not talk about being completely wrong about Ant on the Olympic team.

Got it.

Ant won’t be on the Olympic team, because he’s not a team player. Guys on the original Dream Team, all but 5 of them every game, came off the bench, but he’s too special?

[The Truth #6]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR

21 Jamal Murray
22 Austin Reaves
23 Brook Lopez

32 Anthony Edwards
33 Josh Hart
34 Immanuel Quickley

181 Troy Brown Jr., Andre Drummond, Jalen Green, Aaron Holiday, Derek Jones Jr., Grant Williams
187 Devin Vassel
188 Devonte' Graham, Javonte Green, Trey Lyles, Mike Muscala, Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell Westbrook

This makes me more interested in Quickley. At least a person of interest to consider.

[scott]

This makes me more interested in Quickley. At least a person of interest to consider.

Lots of chatter on this board about Quickley - is NYK looking to move on from him or just wishful thinking?

[The Truth #6]

Lots of chatter on this board about Quickley - is NYK looking to move on from him or just wishful thinking?

Several months ago there was some chatter that he might be an odd man out, but I think he got extended and Obi got traded iirc. So probably much less likely now. But he put great numbers when starting.

[Mr. Body]

There is absolutely no movement by the Knicks about Quickley. It's something SpursTalk made up.

[TD 21]

Quickley isn't being "shopped" and they might extend him, but no way he's in the long term plans at this point (two prominent small guards is untenable and between Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Hart and DiVincenzo, that's five other starter/6th man caliber 1-3's, with no rotational backup 4).

The question for the Knicks would be, if the Spurs are willing to give up quality draft capital, is that better than him to add to their package for a superstar?

He's not the long term "answer" here in the sense of being the primary initiator, but take the Nuggets for example. Harris, Barton and Morris, weren't on the championship team, but helped get them near that level, then became trade assets for Gordon and Caldwell-Pope who did the rest.

[The Truth #6]

I don't think anyone here knows what the Knicks intend to do but there is a steady stream of articles discussing stalled trade talks re: Quickley so it's not a big leap to wonder if he would be a good Spur's fit. The problem is he probably wants too much money

[rankingtear]

NYK wants to trade IQ, Brunson just eats all his playoff minutes. They already set it up with Donte signing.

[NASpurs]

China doll

1720300035186033121

[Robz4000]

China doll

1720300035186033121

:lmao

[SpursGenius]

Injury prone no doubt. Can be great if his Pussy didn’t hurt so much.

[RC_Drunkford]

:lmao

what's funny about that?

[BatManu20]

Sucks cause he’s clearly putting in the work and turning himself into a great scorer. But I do feel like he may just be an injury prone player tbh. Hopefully I’m wrong and he ends up being like Steph Curry who had a bunch of injuries early in his career and has turned himself into an Iron Man ever sense.

[Mr. Body]

Fucking sucks. He was turning into a menace.

[spursparker9]

Groin injury is very tricky....expecting he be out at least 2 months

[HankChinaski]

He has been playing great from the start of the season. Hopefully spurs staff is just taking extra precautions

[kxs783kms]

Not that we were winning the championship this year or anything but we won't go too far without Vassell's shot and playmaker. We need his consistent 20 pts and floor spacing ability. Branham has to start making those wide open shots until Vassell returns.

[RC_Drunkford]

Groin injury is very tricky....expecting he be out at least 2 months

2 months????

[daslicer]

2 months????

Bad groin injuries can last somewhere between 6-8 weeks so most likely 2 months.

[JPB]

Bad groin injuries can last somewhere between 6-8 weeks so most likely 2 months.

Depends if there's a tear and how long it is. But yeah, you really need it to be 100%, that's not something you can play with or you're risking to badly tear it.

[Mugen]

Don't think it'll be 2months. I could see 4-6 weeks though. Sucks because Devin has been balling.

[Robz4000]

what's funny about that?

I'm laughing at the fact the dude is made of glass. Obviously it sucks but at this point it's become a trend.

[SPURt]

Damnit. This dude is cursed.

[spursparker9]

2 months????

Yes...it is not like sprained ankle where you can see swollen portion. Groin injury/tightness is very tricky. If it is at 90% recovered but you are impatient and try to play through it, it will re-injure again.

Consider how conservative the Spurs medical staff might be, I expect 8 weeks out at least.

[playbonner15]

Hope he recovers immediately...

I think Cedi will take his place in the rotation...

[RC_Drunkford]

Yes...it is not like sprained ankle where you can see swollen portion. Groin injury/tightness is very tricky. If it is at 90% recovered but you are impatient and try to play through it, it will re-injure again.

Consider how conservative the Spurs medical staff might be, I expect 8 weeks out at least.

that sucks, he was on his way to drop 40 on the Suns. Hope the MRI shows it's nothing serious, but the Spurs will definitely be cautious. I guess we'll see him again in 2024

[SayTown]

Yes...it is not like sprained ankle where you can see swollen portion. Groin injury/tightness is very tricky. If it is at 90% recovered but you are impatient and try to play through it, it will re-injure again.

Consider how conservative the Spurs medical staff might be, I expect 8 weeks out at least.

Does he have to stop smashing bad dimes too.

[objective]

Time for Champagnie-mania

[z0sa]

Sad. Vassell is our most consistent 2nd option. Though it might be a boon for Wemby’s presence offensively.

[SupremeGuy]

Groin injury is very tricky....expecting he be out at least 2 months2 months? He didn't get his balls ripped off.

I didn't even notice when he got injured. Does anyone have an idea when it happened?

[spurraider21]

That’s rough. Going to see a lot of Branham

[spursparker9]

Malakai, KJ and Cedi have to step up for the scoring load.

Wemby will be given more shots attempt too. There could still be some silver lining.

[spurraider21]

Sad. Vassell is our most consistent 2nd option. Though it might be a boon for Wemby’s presence offensively.
Going to be worse. Vassell was helping keep defenses honest and was the only other late shot clock scorer

[onechance87]

bring rice in...Not sure branham or wesley will step up

[spurraider21]

You are now thinking about what a ridiculous combo Wemby and Haliburton would have been

good night

[timtonymanu]

You are now thinking about what a ridiculous combo Wemby and Haliburton would have been

good night

Haliburton would have gotten us more wins and no Wemby tbh.

[BatManu20]

Haliburton would have gotten us more wins and no Wemby tbh.

You’re probably right. But damn he’d be a nasty pairing with Wemby tbh.

[CGD]

Damn shame. Malaki needs to use this moment to shine, even as I would expect Cedi to start now.

[Kevin]

Dev's injury re-opens the door for Champagnie as well. Hope he makes something of it.

[bluebellmaniac]

2 months? He didn't get his balls ripped off.

I didn't even notice when he got injured. Does anyone have an idea when it happened?

Tank master!

[SPURt]

Any real updates? I don’t understand how people Barnham or Champ are a good alternative. He’s the 2nd best player on the team and it’s not close.

[PrimeMinister]

there is no real alternative....gonna have to hope sochan can build on his last outing and keldon will have to carry more of the load. the bench guy taking dev's spot needs to not be a turnstile on defense and hit open 3s.

[Obstructed_View]

2 months? He didn't get his balls ripped off.

I didn't even notice when he got injured. Does anyone have an idea when it happened?
Was it the same possession where Tre got whacked in the head?

[DAF86]

You are now thinking about what a ridiculous combo Wemby and Haliburton would have been

good night

Thinking that having Haliburton might have prevented us from getting Wemby helps me sleep at night.

[DAF86]

I really hope Vassell isn't injury prone, because it is obvious that he's gonna be a championship level player.

[deanoden]

Seems like the trainers should be able to prevent this type of injury.

[BackHome]

The good and bad of adding maybe to much muscle?

[John B]

Still hoping Devin will be back soon. I hope it’s more precautionary.

I really hope Pop reinsert Tre as the PG and slide Keldon to SG. Wemby will be getting more touches and he’d need Tre to find him. Malaki has responded well before when expected to score. While Champagnie needs to wake up from daydreaming and start earning his new contract. I hope there’s a silver lining to all this.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Waste

Would have been better off signing Grayson allen

[buttsR4rebounding]

Haliburton would have gotten us more wins and no Wemby tbh.

Wrong. He was injured most of last year.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Yes...it is not like sprained ankle where you can see swollen portion. Groin injury/tightness is very tricky. If it is at 90% recovered but you are impatient and try to play through it, it will re-injure again.

Consider how conservative the Spurs medical staff might be, I expect 8 weeks out at least.

Damn. When he had groin tightness it just took Primo one trip to the psychiatrist to stretch it out!

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Wrong. He was injured most of last year.
have you heard anything about butterfly effect?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The injury probably slides Trey into the starting lineup, or at least pushes Trey into more minutes with the starters.

My guess is Pop is about to tinker, and so lots of guys will be getting extra minutes.

As others have said, Devin is clearly the Spurs’ second best player so his absence will be felt.

[John B]

The injury probably slides Trey into the starting lineup, or at least pushes Trey into more minutes with the starters.

My guess is Pop is about to tinker, and so lots of guys will be getting extra minutes.

As others have said, Devin is clearly the Spurs’ second best player so his absence will be felt.

Which is the silver lining if any. Last year with Tre and Wesley down, we saw the emergence of Sochan and Malaki taking care of the ball. Spurs eventually tanked, but we saw players stepped up offensively. I think Malaki will showup. He is better when he is expected to score and not lost in the rotation. He too likes that added pressure on him, to help carry the team’s scoring. Chanpagnie too. I think will start playing better with more minutes.

Tre playing more minutes could also mean Graham. He is quite forgotten lately. But he is a veteran guard who can protect the ball and score. I think we might see him also. These guysneed to step up and watching Wemby, I think they will want to stay around and thus need to play hard.

[BacktoBasics]

Which is the silver lining if any. Last year with Tre and Wesley down, we saw the emergence of Sochan and Malaki taking care of the ball. Spurs eventually tanked, but we saw players stepped up offensively. I think Malaki will showup. He is better when he is expected to score and not lost in the rotation. He too likes that added pressure on him, to help carry the team’s scoring. Chanpagnie too. I think will start playing better with more minutes.

Tre playing more minutes could also mean Graham. He is quite forgotten lately. But he is a veteran guard who can protect the ball and score. I think we might see him also. These guysneed to step up and watching Wemby, I think they will want to stay around and thus need to play hard.

I agree with you about Graham. This should open up opportunities for him and I actually think he’d fit well into some of these lineups. Particularly would help as a ball handler like you mentioned.

[Atl Spur]

I’m gonna keep my eye on J Champ; he has shooting, size and defensive chops

[Rocalcio]

I'm laughing at the fact the dude is made of glass. Obviously it sucks but at this point it's become a trend.

Still not funny

[Fizziksman]

need him for the in-season tournament next week

[SPURt]

1724605448974741593

[spurraider21]

He’s not wrong. Love that Vassell has that game but it can’t be all he does. At least if he wants to be more than a role player aspiring to be a #3 option on a good team.

he needs to be more assertive when it comes to getting to the rim

[RC_Drunkford]

He makes those tough shots at a high clip though. Also if this team had a real PG Devin would really shine, cause he's a great catch and shoot guy

[Obstructed_View]

Statistically nobody hits more contested shots than Devin. That means he's taking far more contested shots than anyone else. Also, he plays Lonnie Walker levels of defense this year.

[Raven]

He was awful yesterday. His D seems to have gone the way of the dodo. Hopefully he can bounce back.

[Kurgan]

Should have drafted Haliburton. There isn't a single thing Devin does better than him. He would have fulfilled our need for a volume three point shooter and a real playmaker

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Should have drafted Haliburton. There isn't a single thing Devin does better than him. He would have fulfilled our need for a volume three point shooter and a real playmaker
Should have drafted Jokic ��

[Kurgan]

Should have drafted Jokic ��

No one could have predicted a 2nd rounder like Jokic would be what he is today. Hali, on the other hand, was rated above Devin in most NBA mock drafts. I remember the commentator on ESPN(or NBATV can't remember which)being surprised that the Spurs passed on Haliburton for Vassell. Spurs flubbed that one, plain and simple. Even worse, this bad decision led to them drafting Primo over Sengun a year later because of a need for a point guard.

[cd98]

Should have drafted Haliburton. There isn't a single thing Devin does better than him. He would have fulfilled our need for a volume three point shooter and a real playmaker

Well, Haliburton has been awesome. I'm surprised the Kings traded him. But in fairness to the Spurs, they had DJM and White on the roster and needed a wing player. Vassell still has the chance to develop into an All Star. I agree that he needs to find ways to get to the rim and the free throw line more consistently, but as for taking tough shots and making them, see Kobe Bryant. In the playoffs, sometimes you are forced to take tough shots and he's shown he can make those. He's not Kobe, but Barkley's takes are black and white when reality is more gray.

[SpursBills]

what happened to this guy's defense? Coming into the league his primary selling point was his help defense and defensive potential, but it seems like it's gotten worse every year. Is it effort, scheme, or is he just using too much energy on the offensive end?

[RC_Drunkford]

what happened to this guy's defense? Coming into the league his primary selling point was his help defense and defensive potential, but it seems like it's gotten worse every year. Is it effort, scheme, or is he just using too much energy on the offensive end?

Spurs schemes are the worst in the league by far tbh. All of our players would look way better on that end if we'd play defense how it should be played. Also Vassell is a good help defender, but his 1-on-1 defense was never that good

[CGD]

1724605448974741593

He’s not wrong. The question is how much would he be helped by a PG that can actually set the table for the offense? I suspect that would help a good amount.

[CGD]

He makes those tough shots at a high clip though. Also if this team had a real PG Devin would really shine, cause he's a great catch and shoot guy

They’re still tough shots though. Agree on a PG

[rankingtear]

what happened to this guy's defense? Coming into the league his primary selling point was his help defense and defensive potential, but it seems like it's gotten worse every year. Is it effort, scheme, or is he just using too much energy on the offensive end?

His on ball is never been good because of strenght. Help defense there are still flashes, doubt that goes away completely.

[Sugus]

1724605448974741593

Do we have data publicly available about players' shot profiles this season? I could swear Vassell came into this year picking better shots and spots than he did last season and beyond. Or maybe he was just making more of them to the point where them being "bad shots" wasn't as glaring.

But I'd love to see some shooting profile %s when the season progresses further. Chuck is right and nothing Devin does will change that, least in this current NBA.

[SayTown]

Devin is the best player on this team at the moment and he is only playing above average which is saying something. No wonder he got his huge contract because he probably looked like an MVP candidate in practice everyday playing against all these scrubs besides Wemby.

[spurraider21]

he has it in him. he doesnt have the short area quickness to blow by people, but he has good length, contact balance, strength, and a really crafty game at the rim

1755805939754557934


this would not only give him a more consistent form of scoring, but by forcing defenders to respect the drive, would actually eventually net him better quality jumpers as well. and while it will take him some time to develop the skill, could also unlock his ability to facilitate more by collapsing the defense. he's already shown a nice connection with wemby in the pick and roll game. if he can provide the "vertical spacing" that Chinook talks about, could really be something

[Atl Spur]

he has it in him. he doesnt have the short area quickness to blow by people, but he has good length, contact balance, strength, and a really crafty game at the rim

1755805939754557934


this would not only give him a more consistent form of scoring, but by forcing defenders to respect the drive, would actually eventually net him better quality jumpers as well. and while it will take him some time to develop the skill, could also unlock his ability to facilitate more by collapsing the defense. he's already shown a nice connection with wemby in the pick and roll game. if he can provide the "vertical spacing" that Chinook talks about, could really be something

I say it ALL the time concerning him…. Get more aggressive.

[cd98]

Maybe since Vassel is still young he’s going to get better and more efficient?

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘m glad I ain‘t the only guy who thinks Devin can still improve by a lot.

[daslicer]

My least favorite Spur. He's a chucker and an empty stat player.

[SupremeGuy]

My least favorite Spur. He's a chucker and an empty stat player.That's basically the description of Keldon lol if they both learned their roles and put egos aside I could see both of them being good players tbh

[daslicer]

That's basically the description of Keldon lol if they both learned their roles and put egos aside I could see both of them being good players tbh

I agree Keldon is in the same mold. I feel Devin's ceiling is being an Alan Houston type of player at best. Keldon could end up being a good sixth man but both I don't think either of them will be able to put aside their egos and learn how to be team players.

[John B]

Baby steps. I like both Devin and Keldon to find Wemby. But, also I want them to develop their individual games as go to scorers - scoring at will, and not necessarily defer to Wemby. It’s easy to say pass to Wemby. But first be offensive threats to suck the defense off Wemby. I think when Wemby gets NBA strong the ball will find him more.

[Pauleta14]

For Vassell and Keldon not to defer to Wemby, you need first Vassell or Keldon to defer to Wemby

[John B]

For Vassell and Keldon not to defer to Wemby, you need first Vassell or Keldon to defer to Wemby

Wax on wax off, don’t forget to breathe

[Pauleta14]

Wax on wax off, don’t forget to breathe

I’m not the one getting all nervous going ad hominem each time someone doesn’t share my pov…

I guess you’re projecting :lol

[Mr. Body]

Toronto away game was a massive showcase for Wemby, but it was a blowout as much because of Vassell. It seems lately like he's understanding when to call his own number and the value of scoring in bunches, how vital that is instead of just getting shots passively. I'd love to see him get over 30 in a game. Maybe this would have been if it wasn't a blowout.

[SpursBills]

He's doing well. Didn't know he was a Kobe fanboy, but I'd rather him chuck shots and learn how to take and make bad shots early in his career so that he can reign it in in the team setting later on. Every great team needs that end-of-shot clock bail-out guy and Vassell's well on his way to becoming one for the spurs. His rim finishing and passing accuracy are actually pretty underrated, consistently >2 AST:TO and finishing an elite percentage at the rim, he just doesn't do enough of either yet. Would like to see the defense and consistency continue to improve. If we can get DeRozan with good defense and a legitimate 3 point shot, that's a great player.

[Mr. Body]

He's doing well. Didn't know he was a Kobe fanboy, but I'd rather him chuck shots and learn how to take and make bad shots early in his career so that he can reign it in in the team setting later on. Every great team needs that end-of-shot clock bail-out guy and Vassell's well on his way to becoming one for the spurs. His rim finishing and passing accuracy are actually pretty underrated, consistently >2 AST:TO and finishing an elite percentage at the rim, he just doesn't do enough of either yet. Would like to see the defense and consistency continue to improve. If we can get DeRozan with good defense and a legitimate 3 point shot, that's a great player.

Good stuff. He's felt really passive to me, content to get his shots slowly in the midst of larger action, leading the team to significant dry spells. Dropping 23 in a quarter this last week was significant. Becoming not simply a general threat but a very specific danger to defenses. I don't really doubt this is what the staff has been building toward, how to read the landscape of a game.

[scott]

He's been really good since that little mini-slump he had. Hopefully he keeps it up.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell shot a lot more catch-and-shoot 3s in this game. They even ran the hammer play for him. This is exactly what I mean when I'm saying he's more of an offball shooter. Once we have better PG play, there won't be as much chucking and he'll get higher quality shots. Meanwhile let him develop his game further.

[RC_Drunkford]

1754919088072048759

[Slippy]

Im seeing a Manu Ginobili inlufuence to his game. On the drives , creation and the passing.

That behind back pass at 6.15 to Wemby dunk. Very Manu like..

[Slippy]

Matt Bonner touched on it. DVs improvement on drives where he holds it like a running back making it hard to get stripped is a Manu Ginobili trait. Also when attacking he uses his body to get separation then falls back for a lay up is reminiscent of Manu.

[SupremeGuy]

Toronto away game was a massive showcase for Wemby, but it was a blowout as much because of Vassell. It seems lately like he's understanding when to call his own number and the value of scoring in bunches, how vital that is instead of just getting shots passively. I'd love to see him get over 30 in a game. Maybe this would have been if it wasn't a blowout.DV seems to both be a front runner when we're up a bunch and also at the same time a stat padder when we're down bad. The whole team, actually.

Sucks how the team seems to go to shit for periods of time.

[SupremeGuy]

Im seeing a Manu Ginobili inlufuence to his game. On the drives , creation and the passing.

That behind back pass at 6.15 to Wemby dunk. Very Manu like..That was sick.

Didn't someone miss Wemby a few plays earlier when he had his man backed all the way down? Was it DV? Someone took a 3 instead.

[rankingtear]

Last 15 Games 22.2 PPG with shooting splits of 50/40/80. 4FTA and 4.6 AST.

Wemby on a similar 22.4 with shooting splits of 49/39/82. 5FTA and 3.6 AST.

[duncan2150]

Last 15 Games 22.2 PPG with shooting splits of 50/40/80.

The only bright spot behind victor and he could do better.

[rankingtear]

Synergy playtype numbers :


Isolation: 80.8 percentile
PNR Handler: 83.4
Transition: 73.7

Spot up: 72.1
Handoff : 47.9 ( 5th in possesions per game )
Cuts : 96.1
Off Screen : 32.3

[Russo21]

I remember checking a while ago and seeing DV was averaging a totally piss poor 2.8 assists. Pathetic for a lead guard with the ball in his hands a lot. That's trended upwards now to 3.6 apg while his scoring hasn't taken a hit so he's going in the right direction I suppose.

But then you look at games the other week. The play was drawn up for Wemby and Vassell took and missed the final shot and we lost the game. In the post game interview he just said something like yeah the play was drawn up for Wemby but I saw the shot so took the shot myself.

4 years on and I still don't know what to think about Vassell. But as dude said above last 15 games 22.2 on 50/40/80 so it is what it is. Still needs to improve D and play making.

On a side note it's weird seeing these young guys like DV and KJ talking about being leaders and stuff. They're young and immature. Too young and immature to be good leaders yet but theyre all we have. Hope the Spurs bring in some veteran presence in the next few years when we're getting in a position to contend again.

[The Truth #6]

We need a point guard to dominate the ball and take control, and to be actually able to score of course. Then at that point I hope that Devin and KJ can play off ball more and not hero as much.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I agree Keldon is in the same mold. I feel Devin's ceiling is being an Alan Houston type of player at best. Keldon could end up being a good sixth man but both I don't think either of them will be able to put aside their egos and learn how to be team players.

Houston was a 2 time all star and all round stud in the 2000s.

[exstatic]

We need a point guard to dominate the ball and take control, and to be actually able to score of course. Then at that point I hope that Devin and KJ can play off ball more and not hero as much.

Pretty much the opposite of what the Spurs have done since AJ retired.

[The Truth #6]

Pretty much the opposite of what the Spurs have done since AJ retired.

And yet, could still be helpful on this team in particular where we need someone to pass and score, so that the secondary players fit into a role that is appropriate.

[exstatic]

And yet, could still be helpful on this team in particular where we need someone to pass and score, so that the secondary players fit into a role that is appropriate.

That’s not the player he described. Tony passed and scored, but only scored 20 ppg once, and never had a 28 USG%. That’s what we need, a game manager, not a ball dominator.

[The Truth #6]

That’s not the player he described. Tony passed and scored, but only scored 20 ppg once, and never had a 28 USG%. That’s what we need, a game manager, not a ball dominator.

Basically, we need a lead guard to be able to keep Keldon and Devin from dominating so much. It's a problem with the offense; this that has been well discussed.

[Mr. Body]

That’s not the player he described. Tony passed and scored, but only scored 20 ppg once, and never had a 28 USG%. That’s what we need, a game manager, not a ball dominator.

It's really hard to imagine a ball-dominant guard on the Spurs. We haven't had that since Gervin. As you say, Parker was there to stir the defense around and start forcing decisions from them, but it was a different thing than Young would do.

[JeffDuncan]

That’s not the player he described. Tony passed and scored, but only scored 20 ppg once, and never had a 28 USG%. That’s what we need, a game manager, not a ball dominator.


With reference to Tony Parker vs Trae Young:

Tony Parker had two seasons with a 28+ USG%, in 2007-08 and 2008-09. Tony also had three seasons with an AST% of 40+, btw.

Some of the difference between Tony and Trae, in USG%, is attributable to free throw shooting. Tony’s high in number of FT attempts per game was 5, a number he had in three different seasons. Trae’s career average for FTA/gm is 7.7 and he’s currently at 8.0 for this season. Trae shoots more than 50% more free throws than Tony did.

Turnovers are another factor. During his long career, Tony only had one season of 3 turnovers per game, that was in 2005-06 when he had 3.1. Trae has been at, or over, 4 turnovers per game since his rookie season.

So, part of Trae’s high USG% is the outcome of either free throws, or a turnover, when he has the ball.

Beyond that, Trae led the league in total assists the last two seasons, and he is currently the leader in total assists this season as well. If you want assists, he’s your man.

[Spurs Homer]

If i had to choose between

keldon
tre
vassell
sochan

choosing as to which to trade away first?

Vassell -

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell stats for February:

22.5 PPG 4.3 RB 4.9 AST 0.8 STL 0.8 BLK 1.8 TOV

48.6 FG% 43% 3P%

scored double digits in every game

[CGD]

He’s been playing great of late, and passing it better too. The writing is on the wall for Keldon tough, and I think he knows it.

[Mr. Body]

Why is the Spurs fanbase constantly putting players against each other for no fucking reason?

[CGD]

^ it’s clearly downstream of the “trade for Young” debate going on elsewhere. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the Spurs only have 2-3 big contracts that would be needed to make that happen, so if that’s your preferred approach for team building it’s fair to ask the Keldon v Devin etc question. No need to the get off my lawn theatrics, lol

[Atl Spur]

Pop made sure Keldon got an Olympic medal and life changing money…I’d say kj will be ok! He needs to go now……

[spurraider21]

his highs are high enough imo, but his lows are simply too low. his "off" game simply cant be 4-6 points. thats unacceptable for him, because we have seen him show the ability to get into the paint

[lefty]

I would take him over Edwards in a minute, because Edwards is an idiot, and beyond self absorbed. His refusal to come off the bench for a few weeks for the USMNT just punched his ticket off of the Olympic team.
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Leetonidas]

:lol what an abysmal take

[NASpurs]

:lol that's a HOF bad take

[scott]

:lol that's a HOF bad take

The best part is that its only one of an exhaustive list of HOF level bad takes from ex. Might not even crack his top 5.

[KobesAchilles]

Imagining Edwards paired with Wemby is scary. They would be the new Shaq and Kobe. 5 championships at the very least...

[lefty]

Imagining Edwards paired with Wemby is scary. They would be the new Shaq and Kobe. 5 championships at the very least...
And both are extremely competitive
6 peat baby

[RC_Drunkford]

typical exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) idiot take. Give me Jalen Smith over LeBron :lmao

[Dejounte]

Imagining Edwards paired with Wemby is scary. They would be the new Shaq and Kobe. 5 championships at the very least...

Since they’ll never be paired it’s more like Duncan vs Kobe.

[SpursBills]

Big year for Vassell coming up - he went from a Middleton trajectory to a Lavine trajectory and that drop-off is exclusively due to his nosediving defense. Needs to reverse that if he wants to be anything more than an empty calories volume scorer and be viewed as a core piece going forward.
https://i.postimg.cc/Kc0BKfd1/Unknown.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rFb4jmyc/Unknown-2.png

https://i.postimg.cc/NfLTRTcp/Unknown-3.png

[CorrectCrusader]

Big year for Vassell coming up - he went from a Middleton trajectory to a Lavine trajectory and that drop-off is exclusively due to his nosediving defense. Needs to reverse that if he wants to be anything more than an empty calories volume scorer and be viewed as a core piece going forward.
https://i.postimg.cc/Kc0BKfd1/Unknown.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rFb4jmyc/Unknown-2.png

https://i.postimg.cc/NfLTRTcp/Unknown-3.png

Man those trends do not look good

[poopbox]

Man those trends do not look good

Having Sochan, Branhim, and Wesley playing point guard in 100% of your games will do that to you.

[J_Paco]

Having Sochan, Branhim, and Wesley playing point guard in 100% of your games will do that to you.

Wesley isn't a natural PG, but he shouldn't be lumped in with Branham and Sochan in ineptitude (at the position).

He showed a lot of improvement in his decision making, court vision and understanding of where to get guys the ball as the season progressed. The team needs a more natural PG to start and be paired with Vassell, but Wesley is showing the possibility of becoming a valuable secondary ball handler and point-of-attack defender.

Something that neither Vassell, unfortunately his defense has been trending down, or Tre (Jones) seem capable of providing.

Those graphs show why so many fans have been down on Devin overall, but I want to see how he looks in a 3rd option role. He's been a "disaster" (by some metrics) on defense ever since being thrusted into this quasi - first option role.

[kobyz]

Second coming of Michael Finley

[Raven]

Actually Devin Vassell's D has improved dramatically this season.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Big year for Vassell coming up - he went from a Middleton trajectory to a Lavine trajectory and that drop-off is exclusively due to his nosediving defense. Needs to reverse that if he wants to be anything more than an empty calories volume scorer and be viewed as a core piece going forward.
https://i.postimg.cc/Kc0BKfd1/Unknown.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rFb4jmyc/Unknown-2.png

https://i.postimg.cc/NfLTRTcp/Unknown-3.png

This is surprising. EPM on the other hand showed Vassell quite favourably.

O-EPM of 0.9 (82nd percentile) and D-EPM of 0.4 (72nd percentile). Overall he was the 94th in combined EPM in the league.

[Ice009]

Interesting. What are these Darko DPM graphs?

[Pauleta14]

Actually Devin Vassell's D has improved dramatically this season.

In what aspect?

(I'm not being sarcastic, I didn't watch the Spurs/NBA the last 3-4 seasons)

[Pauleta14]

Interesting. What are these Darko DPM graphs?

https://www.google.com/search?q=darko+dpm+meaning&client=firefox-b-e&sca_esv=d65c73666fce9bae&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWILLPJ5s6WnOEfFRZONnKegRg-u3vg%3A1716903229477&ei=Pd1VZojhHJKwhbIPgMuDqAg&oq=Darko+DPM+&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiCkRhcmtvIERQTSAqAggAMgsQ ABiABBiRAhiKBTIFEAAYgAQyBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMggQAB iABBiiBEijH1CdEFidEHABeAGQAQCYAXagAXaqAQMwLjG4AQHI AQD4AQGYAgKgAocBwgIKEAAYsAMY1gQYR8ICDRAuGIAEGLADGE MYigWYAwCIBgGQBgmSBwMxLjGgB8IC&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

;)

[The Truth #6]

So Darko metrics don't assess whether a European player is vastly overrated in the draft? Interesting.

[ismael-robert]

He's working on his game while Hali working on his leg and bad back...that back may be chronic

[KobesAchilles]

Trade him now

[Raven]

In what aspect?

(I'm not being sarcastic, I didn't watch the Spurs/NBA the last 3-4 seasons)

Actual D.. Of course, I am starting from the fact that IMO last year he was one of the worst defenders in the league, so him improving isn't saying much, but this year he has been an actual impact defender in transition, a half decent coverage 3 switcher and hardly ever jumped on pump fakes. First half of the season was rough, but the second half him and sochan were working really well.

[SpursBills]

This is surprising. EPM on the other hand showed Vassell quite favourably.

O-EPM of 0.9 (82nd percentile) and D-EPM of 0.4 (72nd percentile). Overall he was the 94th in combined EPM in the league.

You're right that is unusual that there would be such as discrepancy, as both are based on RAPM. Just looking briefly at the two, one thing that I've noticed is that DARKO tends to favor Wemby much more favorably, as it ranks as a borderline top 5 player ahead of Luka and SGA whereas EPM ranks Wemby around 25, which may be a little low but closer to where I would have ranked him this year. That being said, DARKO tends to more heavily weight more recent performances so this may explain some of the discrepancy. I'm going to chalk Vassell's performance last year up to having trouble adjusting to a different role on offense, which is why I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see where the trend line goes over the next year.

[Manu20]

Perhaps a return for Thursday the Portland game or Saturday against the Jazz?? Let's hope so!


https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/basketball/news/spurs-devin-vassell-likely-out-at-least-one-more-game/

Vassell (foot) isn't expected to return during the team's current road trip, Paul Garcia of ProjectSpurs.com reports.

Spurs assistant coach Mitch Johnson noted that Vassell is ramping up his activity, but he doesn't expect the 24-year-old to be able to go for the final game of the road trip Wednesday in Houston. The team could have more information on a timetable for his return within the next few days. Expect Stephon Castle and Malaki Branham to continue to see opportunities until Vassell is cleared.

[spurraider21]

target date is saturday

1854626240231358619

[scott]

Glad he is on the way back, but I don’t think he is the single solution to our offensive woes that folks are thinking.

The fact is, our offense has structural problems that are just as big, if not bigger, than talent problems. There is no structure, no movement, no tactical organization. Adding Vassell to that mix just means that he’ll do what he did last year: play iso ball, dribble himself into difficult shots, which he’ll impressively make at a high clip. He will provide some scoring, but I don’t think it will make our offense all that more efficient. It isn’t going to clean up CP3 slowly bringing the ball up past half court, it isn’t going to stop Wemby from jacking up early 30 footers, it isn’t going to suddenly inject movement into these other clowns.

For as much as the Spurs lack talent, and Devin increases the talent level on the floor every minute he is on it, we lack identity and organization on offense.

[KobesAchilles]

I would trade Vassell for a future FRP from Indy.

[RC_Drunkford]

with how Wemby is currently playing, he's our best player. Can't wait to have him back.

[LeBowen]

Glad he is on the way back, but I don’t think he is the single solution to our offensive woes that folks are thinking.

The fact is, our offense has structural problems that are just as big, if not bigger, than talent problems. There is no structure, no movement, no tactical organization. Adding Vassell to that mix just means that he’ll do what he did last year: play iso ball, dribble himself into difficult shots, which he’ll impressively make at a high clip. He will provide some scoring, but I don’t think it will make our offense all that more efficient. It isn’t going to clean up CP3 slowly bringing the ball up past half court, it isn’t going to stop Wemby from jacking up early 30 footers, it isn’t going to suddenly inject movement into these other clowns.

For as much as the Spurs lack talent, and Devin increases the talent level on the floor every minute he is on it, we lack identity and organization on offense.

The problem is that movement doesn't do that much without spacing.
Right now Champagnie is our only actual shooter who moves around the floor, has screens set for him and is able to hit those shots off curls.
Everyone else is a stationary shooter. They wait for the ball and shoot if they're wide open.
I guess CP3 can pull up off the dribble, but he's not doing it often.

Devin isn't a superstar, but he'll look like one compared to his teammates' scoring potential when he's back to full form.

The most infuriating thing for me is how every team has at least a couple of scrubs off the bench who aren't even regular rotation members but can come in, jack up a couple of shots and stay on the floor if they get hot.
Meanwhile if our couple of 3pt shooters aren't hitting their shots, we might aswell just leave the game because we're not winning it.
That Wells kid Grizzlies took with 39th pick had 5-7 from 3pt against the Lakers last night. Spurs scouting doesn't seem to be capable of finding those players anymore.
He's also 6'7, not a traffic cone.

I'm all for picking someone like Castle and working on his shot because he has high upside.
But constantly picking second rounders and late FRPs that can't shoot is fucking annoying, tbh.

[Leetonidas]

target date is saturday

1854626240231358619

Thank fucking goodness

[spurraider21]

while sochan is out, a lineup of Paul/Vassell/Champagnie/Barnes/Wemby would actually have terrific spacing, but then the bench unit of Castle/Branham/Keldon/Mamu/Collins would continue to be very poor

[LeBowen]

while sochan is out, a lineup of Paul/Vassell/Champagnie/Barnes/Wemby would actually have terrific spacing, but then the bench unit of Castle/Branham/Keldon/Mamu/Collins would continue to be very poor

Step 1: Play Bassey instead of Collins.
Step 2: Stagger minutes so 2 of CP3/Devin/Champ/Barnes are always on the floor.
Step 3: Functional spacing.

[RC_Drunkford]

the Devin/Wemby pick & roll was actually our best play last season. Let's hope he can get Wemby going. He's been on record saying that he worked on his playmaking in the pick & roll during the offseason, so I'm curious if there's some real improvement in that area of his game. The way Pop played them one of Devin or Wemby was always out there with the bench. I expect that to be the case this time around as well.

[KingKev]

I suspect he will be rusty. I can see the frustration on his face from the sidelines and I hope he eases into things. He was very efficient last year but there is lots of room for him on this current roster to go full chucker.

[John B]

Devin should open up the lane for Vassell. And with Champ hopefully knocking shots, it would make easier for Wemby to score and vise versa. It’s good spacing. Then stagger Castle and Keldon to play with shooters so they can attack the rim. Let’s see.

[scott]

Devin should open up the lane for Vassell. And with Champ hopefully knocking shots, it would make easier for Wemby to score and vise versa. It’s good spacing. Then stagger Castle and Keldon to play with shooters so they can attack the rim. Let’s see.

Huge, if true

[CGD]

Devin should open up the lane for Vassell. And with Champ hopefully knocking shots, it would make easier for Wemby to score and vise versa. It’s good spacing. Then stagger Castle and Keldon to play with shooters so they can attack the rim. Let’s see.

I still think biggest beneficiaries of his return would be Blake and Wesley.

[John B]

Huge, if true

Lol I meant Wemby should be getting more open shots.

[Mugen]

I wonder if they bring Devin off the bench for the first few games back tbh.