Game Thread: 2020 Preseason Game 1 - Thunder @ Spurs - Dec 12th, 2020 @ 6 PM CT

[stephen jackson]

I hate lyles so much. Fuck. It pisses me off

[ace3g]

CIuETZMDpFG

[ragas]

Welp. :lol

So much for trying to continue to bubble style of play.

Hopefully the Spurs didn't promise Poeltl he'll start to get him to re-sign.

Serious question: Do you hate Poeltl?
What has Poeltl starting to do with not continuing the bubble style of play? He was part of the bubble starting 5. Rudy & LMA were not. It‘s interesting that every negative conclusion about the Spurs play starts with Poeltl when he again was the guy with the best netrating and the Spurs collapsed on D when he was off the floor. Yes, he can‘t his his free throws, but that‘s about it. In your grade article you write:


Poeltl started at center and it’s difficult to complain about his production.

First of all that doesn‘t meet your comment above. Secondly what do you mean with ‚it‘s difficult to complain“. Sounds like you hoped for something more to complain about. Perhaps you get lucky next game if Poeltl has a bad game and you can bust his ass.

[UnWantedTheory]

Serious question: Do you hate Poeltl?
What has Poeltl starting to do with not continuing the bubble style of play? He was part of the bubble starting 5. Rudy & LMA were not. It‘s interesting that every negative conclusion about the Spurs play starts with Poeltl when he again was the guy with the best netrating and the Spurs collapsed on D when he was off the floor. Yes, he can‘t his his free throws, but that‘s about it. In your grade article you write:



First of all that doesn‘t meet your comment above. Secondly what do you mean with ‚it‘s difficult to complain“. Sounds like you hoped for something more to complain about. Perhaps you get lucky next game if Poeltl has a bad game and you can bust his ass.
Lol. Wtf? Not continuing the bubble style of play was because Poeltl, LA, and Rudy started, not specifically because of JP. Also, wtf? "It's difficult to complain" doesn't mean you want something to complain about.

[ragas]

Lol. Wtf? Not continuing the bubble style of play was because Poeltl, LA, and Rudy started, not because of JP. Also, wtf? "It's difficult to complain" doesn't mean you want something to complain about.

WTF? He mentioned JP and not the other two at the end of his post, so he seems to think that JP is the problem.

[ragas]

If the SL is an indication of things to come those rankings having the Spurs as a bottom three team in the West won't be far off tbh.

Not rooting for this SL, if Derrick & Johnson are healthy... but todays SL played 4,5 minutes together and they led 9:3, when Poeltl left the floor.

[Ocotillo]

The biggest danger to this team's development is Patty Mills

Horrible as a point
Takes DUMBASS shots
Kills the flow of the offense
Other, more deserving players don't get touches

He literally kills the ball movement.

And he isn't going to fucking stop because he wants to be "Australian Mills". Bitch, sit the fuck down.

Gunner Patty is gonna gun this year, it is a contract year.

[UnWantedTheory]

WTF? He mentioned JP and not the other two at the end of his post, so he seems to think that JP is the problem.
No, you just don't understand what he said.

[Atl Spur]

Gunner Patty is gonna gun this year, it is a contract year.

Let him when necessary for the second unit; he is the least of our issues. Tell Lonnie & Luka to take of their cherry flavored thongs!!

[Dex]

Lol. Wtf? Not continuing the bubble style of play was because Poeltl, LA, and Rudy started, not specifically because of JP. Also, wtf? "It's difficult to complain" doesn't mean you want something to complain about.

The bubble play was predicated on the team's youth, and it showed on the floor.

Last night's starting lineup was literally the opposite of that. It's pretty much the same lineup that he was throwing out all last season and has proven not to be effective, and while I'm glad LMA is shooting more threes, I don't think it's really going to fix that.

[GAustex]

Any news on 31 who looked like twisted ankle?

[weeks]

WTF? He mentioned JP and not the other two at the end of his post, so he seems to think that JP is the problem.

you seem to be extremely insecure and defensive about JP

[The Truth #6]

Gunner Patty is gonna gun this year, it is a contract year.

It’s true. And a contract year for the Mid 3 as well.

I probably overreacted last night with some of my comments, likely due to the effects of alcohol, but I think having four vets in a contract year is just going to be hard to work around. We will see how pop handles the situation. I hope that he uses this game as some sort of evidence to play more of the young players because they are better.

We need some Caldwell Jones type vets: provide leadership but don’t have to play much.

[Mr. Body]

I hate lyles so much. Fuck. It pisses me off

He's not an NBA player in capability or mindset.

[BillMc]

He's not an NBA player in capability or mindset.

Sadly he's better than Lonnie or Luka. Kinda DJ level...

[Mr. Body]

Sadly he's better than Lonnie or Luka. Kinda DJ level...

He's not better than Lonnie Walker. No.

[BillMc]

He's not better than Lonnie Walker. No.

Gotta disagree with you.

[Sugus]

Sadly he's better than Lonnie or Luka. Kinda DJ level...

Luka I can see, but Lonnie? How so? Lonnie is the better shooter, the better primary penetrator, the better distributor (low bar for both, tbf). I don't see Lyles as a good defender, nor Lonnie at this point; Lyles I suppose is the better rebounder, but overall as players? Definitely give the nod to Lonnie. Not to mention the age difference between the two (something far too often skimped upon when discussing Lonnie) and the closeness of both to their respective ceilings.

[BackHome]

It’s sad that we are arguing about which UGLY girl we get to take home to me you can have Murray, Walker, and Lyles they were terrible and they all need to get there head out of there Asses or they won’t be long in the NBA league.

[GAustex]

I think Murray and Walker got more to grow/show. What you see is what you get with Lyles

[MaNu4Tres]

Love Pop.

But he is just in the way if he continues being okay with the 4 vets chucking away at every opportunity -- while throwing out antiquated lineups featuring 2 bigs with Gay at the 3.

Wish he can just retire already.

[Mr. Body]

Gotta disagree with you.

Lol, what the fuck.

If Denver still had Trey Lyles and they called up to trade for Lonnie Walker, everyone on the team would chant in unison, "FUCK NO."

[BackHome]

I will give it twenty games in but if Walker does not show improvement I would trade him Murray and Lyles ass in a New York minute for a late first rounder

[ace3g]

https://scontent-mia3-2.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/e35/s1080x1080/130705309_1018781231956051_5958193545240881591_n.j pg?_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-2.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=gEFzhD7R4j4AX8Plklb&tp=1&oh=8efdb39aacb205b5d48522abe716c6e9&oe=6001EE3B

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIwCrZLJ-BX/

[Prime BEEF]

I will give it twenty games in but if Walker does not show improvement I would trade him Murray and Lyles ass in a New York minute for a late first rounder
There’s enough bad GMs out there that you could get a mid-first rounder for them

[GAustex]

Drew gives no fucks

[Chinook]

The extent to which STers feel justified in taking anything from a PS game where Pop started a lineup that will never see the floor past the first three games is amazing. Even after all these years, it's hard for me to wrap my head around people saying players should be traded or can't start or whatever at this point. Lyles showed he's a perfectly meh starting PF and obviously an NBA player. Basically the only guys who didn't have any sample sizes were Young and Jones, and they both looked good. Once Pop goes back to a sensible unit that doesn't force DMDR to play the two and doesn't have LMA playing the four, the guys will perform better.

In case anyone is wondering, Pop often plays big in pre-season to preserve players' bodies.

[Dejounte]

The extent to which STers feel justified in taking anything from a PS game where Pop started a lineup that will never see the floor past the first three games is amazing. Even after all these years, it's hard for me to wrap my head around people saying players should be traded or can't start or whatever at this point. Lyles showed he's a perfectly meh starting PF and obviously an NBA player. Basically the only guys who didn't have any sample sizes were Young and Jones, and they both looked good. Once Pop goes back to a sensible unit that doesn't force DMDR to play the two and doesn't have LMA playing the four, the guys will perform better.

In case anyone is wondering, Pop often plays big in pre-season to preserve players' bodies.

Who is "Young"?

[The Truth #6]

The extent to which STers feel justified in taking anything from a PS game where Pop started a lineup that will never see the floor past the first three games is amazing. Even after all these years, it's hard for me to wrap my head around people saying players should be traded or can't start or whatever at this point. Lyles showed he's a perfectly meh starting PF and obviously an NBA player. Basically the only guys who didn't have any sample sizes were Young and Jones, and they both looked good. Once Pop goes back to a sensible unit that doesn't force DMDR to play the two and doesn't have LMA playing the four, the guys will perform better.

In case anyone is wondering, Pop often plays big in pre-season to preserve players' bodies.



I hope that’s true. But with so many young players starving for minutes, who is he preserving?

[Seventyniner]

https://scontent-mia3-2.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/e35/s1080x1080/130705309_1018781231956051_5958193545240881591_n.j pg?_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-2.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=gEFzhD7R4j4AX8Plklb&tp=1&oh=8efdb39aacb205b5d48522abe716c6e9&oe=6001EE3B

It's no Bruce Lee Bowen on Szczerbiak, but it will do.

[KobesAchilles]

The extent to which STers feel justified in taking anything from a PS game where Pop started a lineup that will never see the floor past the first three games is amazing. Even after all these years, it's hard for me to wrap my head around people saying players should be traded or can't start or whatever at this point. Lyles showed he's a perfectly meh starting PF and obviously an NBA player. Basically the only guys who didn't have any sample sizes were Young and Jones, and they both looked good. Once Pop goes back to a sensible unit that doesn't force DMDR to play the two and doesn't have LMA playing the four, the guys will perform better.

In case anyone is wondering, Pop often plays big in pre-season to preserve players' bodies.
Its PTSD from last year when people were defending Pop saying “well it’s only preseason. He won’t start Bryn in the regular season over Derrick White...” And I said hell yes he would and then he proceeded to start every fucking game. I can totally see a SL of Demar, LMA, Poetl, White and Murray. But it wouldn’t surprise me if he starts shitty ass Lyles and keeps Poetl on the bench like he did last year.

[objective]

Its PTSD from last year when people were defending Pop saying “well it’s only preseason. He won’t start Bryn in the regular season over Derrick White...”

basically.

Everyone saw Pop totally botch the Murray-White pairing last year.

In pre-season, it was, "Oh, it's just pre-season. They're definitely going to play together big minutes, it's just pre-season!"

Then for the first 10 games or whatever it was when Murray was on a minutes limit it was, "This is just Pop giving Murray room to breathe and get his body back! Yes, it might look stupid to only play White 24 minutes a game, but Pop isn't crazy! He's going to play them together, just wait until the minutes limit comes off!"

Then it was radio silence as Pop refused to play them together. Totally dumbfounded, some of the worst rotation decisions in the NBA, even Boylan wasn't as bad. Why play White as many minutes as possible when Forbes is there ready to be trash?

After that, I wouldn't be stunned at all if Pop somehow found the worst possible lineups and plugged away with them through the trade deadline. And none of you would be surprised either.

[The Truth #6]

It's no Bruce Lee Bowen on Szczerbiak, but it will do.

At first I didn’t think that was real. Amazing.

[The Truth #6]

Its PTSD from last year when people were defending Pop saying “well it’s only preseason. He won’t start Bryn in the regular season over Derrick White...” And I said hell yes he would and then he proceeded to start every fucking game. I can totally see a SL of Demar, LMA, Poetl, White and Murray. But it wouldn’t surprise me if he starts shitty ass Lyles and keeps Poetl on the bench like he did last year.

That’s really true. There’s been so many odd lineups the last few years people expect the worst.

[Chinook]

Its PTSD from last year when people were defending Pop saying “well it’s only preseason. He won’t start Bryn in the regular season over Derrick White...” And I said hell yes he would and then he proceeded to start every fucking game. I can totally see a SL of Demar, LMA, Poetl, White and Murray. But it wouldn’t surprise me if he starts shitty ass Lyles and keeps Poetl on the bench like he did last year.

So Pop started Forbes and Walker along with Murray, and Bryn actually had a pretty good pre-season after having a decent year before that. A lot of people want to rewrite history to make it seem like Bryn was handed everything, but he played really well for about a year stretch, and it made a ton of sense for Pop to continue starting him and not necessarily prioritize starting Murray and white. If anything, the complaints weren't about Bryn as much as they were about Murray starting over White. Not going to say some folks weren't clamoring for White to start, but most of the talk was about how they almost literally never played DJM and DW together for most of the season. The same people wanting to claim victory about Forbes don't admit that Murray wasn't actually a better starting option either. Bryn already showed he could start on a playoff team. DeJounte, not nearly as much.

Also to note, Pop started Poeltl and Aldridge both of the first two pre-season games before abandoning it for Lyles. The year before that, Pop started LMA/Gasol and LMA/Poeltl to start the pre-season. There's legit precedent for that opening unit not being indicative of the direction of the team.

[R. DeMurre]

At first I didn’t think that was real. Amazing.

Eubanks was -11 in 6 minutes on the floor... not too amazing tbh. Poku went for 14 & 8 in his first game.

[BackHome]

It's no Bruce Lee Bowen on Szczerbiak, but it will do.

Dude that is one bad ass picture definitely going to have to blow that up and put on my wall

[BackHome]

Eubanks was -11 in 6 minutes on the floor... not too amazing tbh. Poku went for 14 & 8 in his first game.

You know what Poku and Keldon and Vassell all have in common- they all have the “ Eye of The Tiger” meaning they want to win at all cost and are willing to work 3 times harder then there team mates to get there.

[Chinook]

basically.

Everyone saw Pop totally botch the Murray-White pairing last year.

In pre-season, it was, "Oh, it's just pre-season. They're definitely going to play together big minutes, it's just pre-season!"

Then for the first 10 games or whatever it was when Murray was on a minutes limit it was, "This is just Pop giving Murray room to breathe and get his body back! Yes, it might look stupid to only play White 24 minutes a game, but Pop isn't crazy! He's going to play them together, just wait until the minutes limit comes off!"

Then it was radio silence as Pop refused to play them together. Totally dumbfounded, some of the worst rotation decisions in the NBA, even Boylan wasn't as bad. Why play White as many minutes as possible when Forbes is there ready to be trash?

After that, I wouldn't be stunned at all if Pop somehow found the worst possible lineups and plugged away with them through the trade deadline. And none of you would be surprised either.

Again, folks say things like that but then ignore that DeJounte was pretty awful. The Murray-White combo wasn't going to save the Spurs. There's a decent chance the White, Forbes, DeRozan, Lyles, Aldridge combo would've worked out better. Even if it didn't, the option of going back to the main SL from the previous season would've still been there.

Murray's regular-season winning percentage as a starter is .500, and that includes his handful of starts in 2016-2017 when the Spurs were a 61-win squad. Take that away, and DJM's percentage drops to .439. Forbes was at .535. The Spurs over the last three years were at .540. Basically the bubble run is the only reason why Forbes' percentage flags behind the team's total. Starting Murray and White doesn't seem to be the answer any more than White/Forbes, and folks trying to pat themselves on the back for saying they knew Pop was wrong all along should be more specific. White should've and should start. Murray or Forbes starting isn't the important part.

[Seventyniner]

Eubanks was -11 in 6 minutes on the floor... not too amazing tbh. Poku went for 14 & 8 in his first game.

I was just reacting to the picture. Eubanks is a third-stringer until proven otherwise.

[Chinook]

Basically, Murray was never that good of a player, but he's a guy that advanced stats likes. He got really overrated in 2017-2018, and folks thought that if you could get his "defense" and White's defense together, the Spurs could be a better team. What's been born out is actually that starting Murray is still an awful idea and that while he and White should've gotten minutes together, Pop's mistake was not keeping DJM on the bench for the year to "work his way back" while he ran with the hot-hand lineup from the previous year. He then could've seen that Murray wasn't a starting-caliber player and then just moved on quietly, or perhaps Murray could've settled in as a bench dynamo and been trade fodder. Then Pop should've had Forbes start while giving Lonnie chances to taking Bryn's spot.

Very few people want Murray to continue to start. Many want something like,

White, Mills
Walker/Johnson/Vassell, Murray
DeRozan, Johnson/Walker/Vassell
Lyles/Gay
Aldridge/Poeltl

In other words, very few people want to see the White/Murray duo start now since we saw it didn't work. Yet they want to act like Pop should regret not prioritizing that combo last year.

[KobesAchilles]

So Pop started Forbes and Walker along with Murray, and Bryn actually had a pretty good pre-season after having a decent year before that. A lot of people want to rewrite history to make it seem like Bryn was handed everything, but he played really well for about a year stretch, and it made a ton of sense for Pop to continue starting him and not necessarily prioritize starting Murray and white. If anything, the complaints weren't about Bryn as much as they were about Murray starting over White. Not going to say some folks weren't clamoring for White to start, but most of the talk was about how they almost literally never played DJM and DW together for most of the season. The same people wanting to claim victory about Forbes don't admit that Murray wasn't actually a better starting option either. Bryn already showed he could start on a playoff team. DeJounte, not nearly as much.

Also to note, Pop started Poeltl and Aldridge both of the first two pre-season games before abandoning it for Lyles. The year before that, Pop started LMA/Gasol and LMA/Poeltl to start the pre-season. There's legit precedent for that opening unit not being indicative of the direction of the team.
Pop chose White to make the Team USA. He did not choose Bryn. You are the one who is rewriting shit. Bryn didn’t have a good season last year and White STILL never started over him. Nobody (and the Rock means NOBODY) thought that Bryn should have been a starter last year. And he never EVEEEER played really well in his entire career. Unless the bar for really well has been lowered to really shitty in which case I agree.

[rankingtear]

White played the Manu role last year, questions if he can play 30 minutes per game with his foot issues we can't really answer without access to his medicals. I think White has more responsibilities last year than Forbes as he was the primary in the second unit and was the secondary ballhandler in the closing lineups. I think the key to playing White and Murray together is the 3 point volume and their relative health, which was the case in the bubble where White put up 8 attempts per game.

[rankingtear]

Pop chose White to make the Team USA. He did not choose Bryn. You are the one who is rewriting shit. Bryn didn’t have a good season last year and White STILL never started over him. Nobody (and the Rock means NOBODY) thought that Bryn should have been a starter last year. And he never EVEEEER played really well in his entire career. Unless the bar for really well has been lowered to really shitty in which case I agree.

I would think the Manu role is more significant than the starting shooting guard spot. Look at the past players who held that position for the Spurs.

[KobesAchilles]

I would think the Manu role is more significant than the starting shooting guard spot. Look at the past players who held that position for the Spurs.
Manu role only works when you have a Tony Parker. Guarantee had we had DJ and Forbes as the main guards Ginobili in his prime would be starting. Only reason Pop benched Manu was bc him and Tony needed the ball. Seeing as our starting point guard was coming off a major injury, Forbes was the worst defender in the entire NBA, and White wasn’t getting the Manu treatment anyways seeing as he never finished games, there really was no excuse not to start Derrick. Keep reaching though

[rankingtear]

Manu role only works when you have a Tony Parker. Guarantee had we had DJ and Forbes as the main guards Ginobili in his prime would be starting. Only reason Pop benched Manu was bc him and Tony needed the ball. Seeing as our starting point guard was coming off a major injury, Forbes was the worst defender in the entire NBA, and White wasn’t getting the Manu treatment anyways seeing as he never finished games, there really was no excuse not to start Derrick. Keep reaching though

Didn't he finish games? Almost all games I watched White was finishing games. Dejounte was subbed out by the 6-5 minutes left. Can anyone confirm who actually finishes more games? Haven't watched all games but the pattern i always see is Murray playing early 4th then subbed out for White.

Derrick is third on the team on 4th quarter clutch minutes 5 minutes or less behind Derozan and Aldridge. Also third on 4th quarter minutes. Do you even watch games?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=MIN&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&Period=4

[objective]

Again, folks say things like that but then ignore that DeJounte was pretty awful. The Murray-White combo wasn't going to save the Spurs. There's a decent chance the White, Forbes, DeRozan, Lyles, Aldridge combo would've worked out better. Even if it didn't, the option of going back to the main SL from the previous season would've still been there.

Murray's regular-season winning percentage as a starter is .500, and that includes his handful of starts in 2016-2017 when the Spurs were a 61-win squad. Take that away, and DJM's percentage drops to .439. Forbes was at .535. The Spurs over the last three years were at .540. Basically the bubble run is the only reason why Forbes' percentage flags behind the team's total. Starting Murray and White doesn't seem to be the answer any more than White/Forbes, and folks trying to pat themselves on the back for saying they knew Pop was wrong all along should be more specific. White should've and should start. Murray or Forbes starting isn't the important part.

there's nothing I've ignored.

Even in 18-19, during regular season games, EVVVVERRRYOONNNNE even marginally following the Spurs was saying things like, "wow, White can play defense! Can't wait to see him and Murray play together!" From people on this forum, to reddit, to twitter, to Sean on the broadcasts many many times and I think I remember national guys saying it too. "Just wait until next year!"

And what happened?

Pop refused to play them together, basically the entire pre-bubble season except for brief, way too late moments.

And I don't give a damn about starts between Murray and White. "Bu-bu-but Forbes earned his starting spot!"

Forbes didn't earn jack, he was gifted minutes because 18-19 started with Murray AND White AND Walker out with injury. AND Pondexter was clearly toast, AND Cunningham was cooked. So he was the defacto starter who just became the default. And he had a good statistical game 7 against Denver with a dunk.

Again, I don't care about the starts as much as the line-up. It could have been Lonnie starting over Forbes, it doesn't change the disaster rotation decisions with White. I remember people excusing Pop's bizarre antics with not starting White and Murray together as, "It's not who starts, it's who finishes, and as long as White and Murray close, like Manu and Parker, that's what counts!"

Well they didn't close shit together.

And if anyone has any "White & Murray don't go well together!!!!" talk, it is just sad. It is the carbon copy of people who knew better still excusing Pop benching Splitter his whole rookie year. Because supposedly Duncan and Splitter could NEVER EVER play together, and Pop's screwball comedy routine of desperately turning to Splitter in game 4 against Memphis was then used by those same people as PROOF that they could NEVER EVER EVER play together. Because their chemistry wasn't instantly great when thrown together in the playoffs when Splitter has lost peak game conditioning because he hadn't played real minutes in weeks.

And Pop refused to try White and Murray together.

Pop limiting White to only 24 minutes a game and ONLY when Murray was off the floor was the masterpiece of terrible rotation decisions for any coach. He was only one of the best players on the team. He had only functionally been responsible for multiple playoff wins. He was the one creating events on defense, he was the one dominating the league in pick-and-roll production.

Limiting White limited the team. Period. If a coach wants to lose, not playing your best players the most minutes is a good way to try.

So any coach who could ride bizarre decisions into the lottery could easily find a bad combination and go with that. Starting, finishing, either way would be right in line with current Pop.

That's why I'm not getting my hopes up of ever seeing a lineup of Vassell-Johnson-White together at the same time.

[duncan2k5]

Our young guys aren't good because Pop has successfully neutered them and eliminated their confidence... Other teams actually play their draft picks... Even teams better than us... Yet soon as ours make the slightest mistake, they're taken out for several games on end... Lonnie Walker would have already been a starter on a other team .. Murray would have already been one of the better young point guards... White would have been at least as good as Brogdon... Matter if fact Brogdon was a 2nd round pick... If he was drafted by the Spurs, he would have never seen the light of day... And in his spot minutes we would have been bashing him for being an inconsistent, shitty player

[KobesAchilles]

Didn't he finish games? Almost all games I watched White was finishing games. Dejounte was subbed out by the 6-5 minutes left. Can anyone confirm who actually finishes more games? Haven't watched all games but the pattern i always see is Murray playing early 4th then subbed out for White.

Derrick is third on the team on 4th quarter clutch minutes 5 minutes or less behind Derozan and Aldridge. Also third on 4th quarter minutes. Do you even watch games?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=MIN&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&Period=4

See Objectives post above. He didn’t close with Derrick to start the season. It wasn’t til like January or something he started to.

[Chinook]

Pop chose White to make the Team USA. He did not choose Bryn. You are the one who is rewriting shit. Bryn didn’t have a good season last year and White STILL never started over him. Nobody (and the Rock means NOBODY) thought that Bryn should have been a starter last year. And he never EVEEEER played really well in his entire career. Unless the bar for really well has been lowered to really shitty in which case I agree.

Yeah, this is totally trying to rewrite history. The attempt to swap out Murray for White in what I was saying is attempt to rewrite the present too. Some people did argue Murray deserved to start over White last year (including Pop for some reason). Some of those people might've also thought White should've started over Forbes, but trying to make it out like White and Forbes were in direct competition feeds into my exact point. Guaranteeing Murray his spot was the bad thing. White/Forbes already showed they could make the playoffs as a starting duo. Murray starting has not historically been a good thing for the Spurs. Murray/Forbes was a bad lineup; we all agree on that. But Murray/White wasn't the solution either, and that's what the retrospectors want to ignore.

[Chinook]

Even in 18-19, during regular season games, EVVVVERRRYOONNNNE even marginally following the Spurs was saying things like, "wow, White can play defense! Can't wait to see him and Murray play together!" From people on this forum, to reddit, to twitter, to Sean on the broadcasts many many times and I think I remember national guys saying it too. "Just wait until next year!"

You don't have to sell me on the idea that tons of people mistook Murray for a good defender. Dude got an All-Defense nod on the back of Green and Anderson in his second year.


And I don't give a damn about starts between Murray and White. "Bu-bu-but Forbes earned his starting spot!"

You're jumping into a different conversation then. Why Murray/White didn't start was apparently the PTSD-inducing issue for KA.


And if anyone has any "White & Murray don't go well together!!!!" talk, it is just sad. It is the carbon copy of people who knew better still excusing Pop benching Splitter his whole rookie year.

I think they don't go together (or more importantly don't go with DeRozan, who's still definitely the best player of the trio), in large part because Murray has huge holes in his game that makes it hard for him to play with others. Duncan always could space the floor well enough to be a PF back then, and Splitter had PF mobility for the era. Murray's aversion to taking a role-player shot-selection and the fact that his defense was erratic more than good were legit issues that never got resolved in his favor.


Limiting White limited the team. Period. If a coach wants to lose, not playing your best players the most minutes is a good way to try.

You don't have to sell me on Pop not playing White enough. I've wanted him to play since he was a rookie. He should be starting this year, even though there's a good chance he won't.


there's nothing I've ignored.

Except that Murray wasn't the impact that you seem to believe he was. The Murray/White duo doesn't have nearly the argument if the Murray half of that duo isn't holding up its end. You trying to make it a Forbes/White thing is missing that Murray starting or even playing a lot with White wasn't a great solution. That's not because of White, who can play with pretty much anyone and who should get as many minutes as his body can handle. It's because Murray has downsides that make him not clearly better than Bryn was going into last season.

[The Truth #6]

Eubanks was -11 in 6 minutes on the floor... not too amazing tbh. Poku went for 14 & 8 in his first game.

I just meant the photo itself.

[rankingtear]

See Objectives post above. He didn’t close with Derrick to start the season. It wasn’t til like January or something he started to.

Wrong again.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=MIN&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&Period=4&DateFrom=10%2F22%2F2019&DateTo=12%2F31%2F2020

[The Truth #6]

Where is the evidence that White and DJ don’t play well together? They’ve hardly played together at all other than the Bubble, which would suggest the opposite, or at least a neutral opinion.

[rankingtear]

Our young guys aren't good because Pop has successfully neutered them and eliminated their confidence... Other teams actually play their draft picks... Even teams better than us... Yet soon as ours make the slightest mistake, they're taken out for several games on end... Lonnie Walker would have already been a starter on a other team .. Murray would have already been one of the better young point guards... White would have been at least as good as Brogdon... Matter if fact Brogdon was a 2nd round pick... If he was drafted by the Spurs, he would have never seen the light of day... And in his spot minutes we would have been bashing him for being an inconsistent, shitty player

The sink or swim method doesn't always work. More often than not you end up with Kevin Knox and Jarret Culver. Players whos confidence got shot because they were given more responsibilities than they are capable of.

[Chinook]

It was something like Murray and White only played together for like one minute total until like 02/08/2020 against the Kings. I don't know about closing lineups and who was on the floor, but Murray and White weren't on the floor together for more than say the last defensive possession until then.

[Dejounte]

The mind sees what it wants to see

Also funny seeing anyone taking duncan2k5 (should be kawhi2k5) seriously. This dude doesn't even watch the Spurs outside of highlights, if even that. He's just parroting the same shit since Kawhi was traded because his vagina is still hurt.

[Chinook]

Where is the evidence that White and DJ don’t play well together? They’ve hardly played together at all other than the Bubble, which would suggest the opposite, or at least a neutral opinion.

There's more evidence that Forbes/White play well together than White/Murray. In reality, Murray as a starter has a decent data set of not playing well. I remember that the earliest returns from the Murray/White duo were actually really good. They ended up with a net rating of .7 in 240 minutes of action. That's not great, but it'd be eighth if compared to the most-used duos the Spurs had last year. To compare, Forbes/White was a horrible, horrible -8.3 last year. That was worse than any of the top-20 most-used duos SA ran with. But the year before, they were 4.3, which would've been the fifth-best duo last year.

So Bryn was a huge negative last year, and we should all be happy he's gone. But it's revisionist to believe that Bryn didn't work two years ago. He and White had an okay thing going, better than any duo Murray had last year. It's also pretty clear that there were other things wrong with the Spurs than just personnel last season. Pop had one of his worst coaching jobs, and while people harp on the rotations, there were other factors as well like scheme and motivating.

[The Truth #6]

Chinook, I think a lot of us might be making slightly different points, but agreeing that white is good, Forbes is generally bad, and Murray is definitely overrated. Though I’m not high on Murray in his current role and salary, I still see him overall as a better player/less negative than Forbes.

[Chinook]

Chinook, I think a lot of us might be making slightly different points, but agreeing that white is good, Forbes is generally bad, and Murray is definitely overrated. Though I’m not high on Murray in his current role and salary, I still see him overall as a better player/less negative than Forbes.

I do think we agree that White is the best of the trio. I also don't think Forbes is necessarily better than Murray. I just think people took the wrong lessons from last season. Pop should've gone with what he knew worked and then worked in Walker as soon as Lonnie was ready to hit corner threes. Instead he froze out Walker, benched White and stuck with the awful Murray/Forbes duo. He almost seemed intimidated by Murray and started him out of fear. Because, like, Murray was never a good starter. There was no reason to look at his 2017-2018 performance and go, "Yeah, he should get his job back.". Then they gave DJM a ton of money, which meant they had to start him this season too. Then they refused to trade him enough to his value was supposedly decent.

I just have a feeling that Murray's going to hold the team back again and basically kill Walker's career, and the thing ST will take from it again is that the roster is horrible and that Murray and White are a good starting duo.

[rankingtear]

You don't have to sell me on the idea that tons of people mistook Murray for a good defender. Dude got an All-Defense nod on the back of Green and Anderson in his second year.


Stop spreading nonsense.

Murray finished seventh in total deflections during the season. Getting into passing lanes and disrupting the flow of his opponent’s offense is a specialty for the rising star. No player with at least 1500 minutes had more deflections per minute than Dejounte did. Similarly, Murray finished with 8.9 shot contests per 36 minutes, which was sixth amongst qualifying guards this year.

When matched up with top-tier competition, Murray elevates his play. Only Lu Dort of the OKC Thunder was more effective in defending James Harden (https://airalamo.com/2020/08/24/san-antonio-spurs-answer-harden-sw/) this season. The following players combined to shoot (29.4%) when guarded by Murray during the season: Harden (3-18), Trae Young (8-18), Damian Lillard (3-7), Donovan Mitchell (1-6), Lou Williams (1-6), Russell Westbrook (2-5), Bradley Beal (1-4) and Paul George (1-4). That’s a combined 20-68, for those who are counting.

https://airalamo.com/2020/09/08/djm-san-antonio-spurs-all-defensive-team/#:~:text=Despite%20the%20San%20Antonio%20Spurs,up% 20All%2DDefensive%20team%20votes.&text=That%20charisma%20and%20energy%20earned,for%2 0the%202019%2D20%20season.

[The Truth #6]

I do think we agree that White is the best of the trio. I also don't think Forbes is necessarily better than Murray. I just think people took the wrong lessons from last season. Pop should've gone with what he knew worked and then worked in Walker as soon as Lonnie was ready to hit corner threes. Instead he froze out Walker, benched White and stuck with the awful Murray/Forbes duo. He almost seemed intimidated by Murray and started him out of fear. Because, like, Murray was never a good starter. There was no reason to look at his 2017-2018 performance and go, "Yeah, he should get his job back.". Then they gave DJM a ton of money, which meant they had to start him this season too. Then they refused to trade him enough to his value was supposedly decent.

I just have a feeling that Murray's going to hold the team back again and basically kill Walker's career, and the thing ST will take from it again is that the roster is horrible and that Murray and White are a good starting duo.

Interesting. So you prefer a White/Walker backcourt over White/Murray? If so, I prefer that too. Murray has plateaued and I agree they should have tried to trade him, especially because the league mostly likes him. Walker is at a tenuous point in his career where he needs a good environment to work through his issues and unlock his potential. Murray was given that opportunity and Walker hasn’t.

[Chinook]

Stop spreading nonsense.

Murray finished seventh in total deflections during the season. Getting into passing lanes and disrupting the flow of his opponent’s offense is a specialty for the rising star. No player with at least 1500 minutes had more deflections per minute than Dejounte did. Similarly, Murray finished with 8.9 shot contests per 36 minutes, which was sixth amongst qualifying guards this year.

When matched up with top-tier competition, Murray elevates his play. Only Lu Dort of the OKC Thunder was more effective in defending James Harden (https://airalamo.com/2020/08/24/san-antonio-spurs-answer-harden-sw/) this season. The following players combined to shoot (29.4%) when guarded by Murray during the season: Harden (3-18), Trae Young (8-18), Damian Lillard (3-7), Donovan Mitchell (1-6), Lou Williams (1-6), Russell Westbrook (2-5), Bradley Beal (1-4) and Paul George (1-4). That’s a combined 20-68, for those who are counting.

https://airalamo.com/2020/09/08/djm-san-antonio-spurs-all-defensive-team/#:~:text=Despite%20the%20San%20Antonio%20Spurs,up% 20All%2DDefensive%20team%20votes.&text=That%20charisma%20and%20energy%20earned,for%2 0the%202019%2D20%20season.



*Clears throat*

You don't have to sell me on the idea that tons of people (including airalamo.com) mistook Murray for a good defender. Dude got an All-Defense nod on the back of Green and Anderson his second year.

We all know White was the one who sonned Young last year.

I enjoyed the game against Harden as much as anyone else here.

The other ones form tremendously small sample sizes that aren't worth taking seriously. It's clearly a cherry-picked article. Show me a player who "gets up for good competition", and I'll show you one who usually underperforms. Case in point:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759&sort=D_FG_PCT&dir=-1

Those are defensive FG% percentage stats from last year. Murray is the third-worst rotation player (fourth if you think Keldon should count). I don't know what the regular FG% is supposed to mean, but if it means the league average from the spots at which the players shot, then it would bear out that opponents shot more than two percentage points better against Murray than they did against other players. It wasn't the worst of the team or anything, but it was worse than Bryn and Patty, for example.

I mean, I guess Murray might be contesting shots at a really high rate, but that hasn't been translating to a plus for the Spurs.

[Chinook]

Interesting. So you prefer a White/Walker backcourt over White/Murray? If so, I prefer that too. Murray has plateaued and I agree they should have tried to trade him, especially because the league mostly likes him. Walker is at a tenuous point in his career where he needs a good environment to work through his issues and unlock his potential. Murray was given that opportunity and Walker hasn’t.

I think White/Walker should've been Pop's goal last season. I totally get thinking White/Forbes wasn't the answer. But I don't get why you draft a raw guy like Lonnie if developing him isn't one of your top plans. This year, I think it's still a good idea, but I'm way more willing to accept White/Johnson or White/Vassell. The Spurs have legit options for that second wing spot now. Even though I still think Lonnie's has the most potential on the team, they might have to consider moving on from him and letting their other wings get minutes before they all become bogged down.

[rankingtear]

*Clears throat*

You don't have to sell me on the idea that tons of people (including airalamo.com) mistook Murray for a good defender. Dude got an All-Defense nod on the back of Green and Anderson his second year.

We all know White was the one who sonned Young last year.

I enjoyed the game against Harden as much as anyone else here.

The other ones form tremendously small sample sizes that aren't worth taking seriously. It's clearly a cherry-picked article. Show me a player who "gets up for good competition", and I'll show you one who usually underperforms. Case in point:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759&sort=D_FG_PCT&dir=-1

Those are defensive FG% percentage stats from last year. Murray is the third-worst rotation player (fourth if you think Keldon should count). I don't know what the regular FG% is supposed to mean, but if it means the league average from the spots at which the players shot, then it would bear out that opponents shot more than two percentage points better against Murray than they did against other players. It wasn't the worst of the team or anything, but it was worse than Bryn and Patty, for example.

I mean, I guess Murray might be contesting shots at a really high rate, but that hasn't been translating to a plus for the Spurs.

Ask yourself who guards the best perimeter player on the other team before looking at the opponent FG%. There is a reason he cherry picked the best perimeter players. Bryn Forbes guarding Duncan Robinson is not the same as guarding the best iso scorer in the game.

[Chinook]

Ask yourself who guards the best perimeter player on the other team before looking at the opponent FG%.

1) You've gone from thinking those random stats were going to carry the day to burying your head when the full stats are shown.

2) If Murray is getting up to guard all those good offensive players you think he's checking, that should actually show well for him in the stats

3) There's zero-evidence that Murray usually checks the best offensive threat. DJM did a really good job on Bulter in the pre-season last year, and that was about it when it came to his defensive versatility. White guarded guys like Kawhi and Doncic.

[rankingtear]

1) You've gone from thinking those random stats were going to carry the day to burying your head when the full stats are shown.

2) If Murray is getting up to guard all those good offensive players you think he's checking, that should actually show well for him in the stats

3) There's zero-evidence that Murray usually checks the best offensive threat. DJM did a really good job on Bulter in the pre-season last year, and that was about it when it came to his defensive versatility. White guarded guys like Kawhi and Doncic.

If you don't think leading the league in deflections and top 10 in shot contest for his position is good defense then we should just agree to disagree.

[KobesAchilles]

Wrong again.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=MIN&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&Period=4&DateFrom=10%2F22%2F2019&DateTo=12%2F31%2F2020

Your search was what was wrong buddy :lol
You put until December 31st 2020. That hasn't even happened yet!

[rjv]

four years into the murray experiment and i'm skeptical that the preseason game against OKC was an anomaly; i think we're going to get the same murray. white is clearly a much better fit for the team-the spurs are much better with him at PG. so, can murray fit at the 2 guard? defensively, perhaps but not so much on offense. murray is just to inconsistent a scorer at this time. on the other hand, i haven't been all too impressed with walker and he was awful on saturday. i hope that was just some rust but he just looked like a rookie all over again. in fact, if i hadn't known who the rookie was between walker and vassell, i would have thought walker. i was also disappointed in samanic but not sure that he had the same opportunity given considering when and where he was put in. i certainly hope to see more from him. at this point, the young guns that i have the greatest confidence in are white, vassell and johnson.

[Prime BEEF]

four years into the murray experiment and i'm skeptical that the preseason game against OKC was an anomaly; i think we're going to get the same murray. white is clearly a much better fit for the team-the spurs are much better with him at PG. so, can murray fit at the 2 guard? defensively, perhaps but not so much on offense. murray is just to inconsistent a scorer at this time. on the other hand, i haven't been all too impressed with walker and he was awful on saturday. i hope that was just some rust but he just looked like a rookie all over again. in fact, if i hadn't known who the rookie was between walker and vassell, i would have thought walker. i was also disappointed in samanic but not sure that he had the same opportunity given considering when and where he was put in. i certainly hope to see more from him. at this point, the young guns that i have the greatest confidence in are white, vassell and johnson.
Agreed. Have the same thoughts

[The Truth #6]

I think White/Walker should've been Pop's goal last season. I totally get thinking White/Forbes wasn't the answer. But I don't get why you draft a raw guy like Lonnie if developing him isn't one of your top plans. This year, I think it's still a good idea, but I'm way more willing to accept White/Johnson or White/Vassell. The Spurs have legit options for that second wing spot now. Even though I still think Lonnie's has the most potential on the team, they might have to consider moving on from him and letting their other wings get minutes before they all become bogged down.

This raises an important point about the challenges the front office faces. They did very well for years staying the course with the big three, obviously, but I don’t know if they have any track record in having to adapt to sudden changes (like Funghi and his Uncle sabotaging the team) to how to prioritize their young talent. They seem disinclined to move on from players and rather let their contract play out. But if they do that with Murray, it could easily screw up the whole rebuild.

I’m digressing further now, but the first preseason game was, yes, only one game. But if they were trying to continue the Bubble Magic, as they purport, it is very odd that they wouldn’t try that right away. Perhaps pop interprets the success of the Bubble differently. Perhaps he only sees it as an attitude, and not a focus or philosophy in rotations. Obviously, not having White or Keldon is a monkey wrench. But if they can’t commit to it early, then I really don’t see it happening this year. Maybe pop did, but the veterans just basically don’t give a shit.

[R. DeMurre]

I hope I don't have to root for White on a different team in a few years, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[rankingtear]

Your search was what was wrong buddy :lol
You put until December 31st 2020. That hasn't even happened yet!

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=MIN&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&Period=4&DateFrom=10%2F22%2F2019&DateTo=12%2F31%2F2019

There same thing White finishes games. Your'e getting exposed man, just watch games. You won't know who closes games by looking at box scores.

[Dejounte]

White was born to be a Spur. From personality, unselfish play, and character, this guy bleeds silver and black. He ain't going anywhere.

[Chinook]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=MIN&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&Period=4&DateFrom=10%2F22%2F2019&DateTo=12%2F31%2F2019

There same thing White finishes games. Your'e getting exposed man, just watch games. You won't know who closes games by looking at box scores.

Did you say this is the last five minutes of the fourth quarter? If so, I can't help by notice that Murray's and White's times don't add up to five minutes, meaning they could (and did) still not play together until February.

[rankingtear]

Did you say this is the last five minutes of the fourth quarter? If so, I can't help by notice that Murray's and White's times don't add up to five minutes, meaning they could (and did) still not play together until February.

This is with regards to KobeAchilles claiming White never finishes games.

[Dejounte]

KobesAchilles lets his emotions blind him sometimes rather than him listening to his brain, but he's a true Spurs fan

[r0drig0lac]

Where is the evidence that White and DJ don’t play well together? They’ve hardly played together at all other than the Bubble, which would suggest the opposite, or at least a neutral opinion.

obviously does not exist

[KobesAchilles]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=MIN&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&Period=4&DateFrom=10%2F22%2F2019&DateTo=12%2F31%2F2019

There same thing White finishes games. Your'e getting exposed man, just watch games. You won't know who closes games by looking at box scores.
I watched the beginning of last year then got fed up with the line ups and stopped for my sanity. I just don’t remember us having a line up of White, Demar, LMA, Gay, and Forbes to close out the games. I remember Patty closing out a lot of games tbh.

[rankingtear]

I watched the beginning of last year then got fed up with the line ups and stopped for my sanity. I just don’t remember us having a line up of White, Demar, LMA, Gay, and Forbes to close out the games. I remember Patty closing out a lot of games tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT4MVl9E7zM

First game of the season White is in the closing lineup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlFDGMqvvng

Second game of the season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjBtDw7lfuU

Third game.

[Chinook]

Yeah, White closed a lot while DJM was working his way back. It's just that when Murray was closing, White wasn't and vice-versa.

[KobesAchilles]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=MIN&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*SAS&Period=4&DateFrom=10%2F22%2F2019&DateTo=12%2F31%2F2019

There same thing White finishes games. Your'e getting exposed man, just watch games. You won't know who closes games by looking at box scores.
I was mostly wrong after looking back at it, but I figured out why my memory was what it was. Just by searching I found 5 games he was underutilized in the 4th quarter in the first quarter of the season. He was hurt 3 games. And he had low 4th quarter minutes in 3 other games that were complete blow outs so I didn't count those out of fairness to you.

Rockets he played 2 minutes in the 4th.
Lakers they took him out at the 9 minute mark and put him back in with 1 minute to go and game over.
Atlanta he didn't play the 4th at all. Was he hurt?? I don't know but he did play almost the entire 3rd quarter.
Dallas he played 1 minute and Sacramento he played 3 minutes.
5 games, plus the 3 he missed plus an additional 3 games where we got the brakes beat off of us. That's a total of 11 games (roughly half the first quarter of the season) which is probably why I remember him not really playing much in the 4th in the beginning of the season. Also looking back, White was invisible in a lot of games in the 4th quarter. I hope he comes out guns blazing to start the year once he's healthy

[SAGirl]

Basically, Murray was never that good of a player, but he's a guy that advanced stats likes. He got really overrated in 2017-2018, and folks thought that if you could get his "defense" and White's defense together, the Spurs could be a better team. What's been born out is actually that starting Murray is still an awful idea and that while he and White should've gotten minutes together, Pop's mistake was not keeping DJM on the bench for the year to "work his way back" while he ran with the hot-hand lineup from the previous year. He then could've seen that Murray wasn't a starting-caliber player and then just moved on quietly, or perhaps Murray could've settled in as a bench dynamo and been trade fodder. Then Pop should've had Forbes start while giving Lonnie chances to taking Bryn's spot.

Very few people want Murray to continue to start. Many want something like,

White, Mills
Walker/Johnson/Vassell, Murray
DeRozan, Johnson/Walker/Vassell
Lyles/Gay
Aldridge/Poeltl

In other words, very few people want to see the White/Murray duo start now since we saw it didn't work. Yet they want to act like Pop should regret not prioritizing that combo last year.
I think the fact they gave him that extension and fell further in love with his character and how he defended the franchise after Kawhi sunk them (specially showing up to rehab and stay with the coaching staff all season learning from video sessions) made Pop commit harder to seat him back as a starter. They gave him a hefty contract. And while Dejounte’s skills were still super raw, he had moxie and crazy confidence. Meanwhile White, an older, more polished and skilled player lacked some confidence and hesitated. Pop unseating him from his prior role probably affected his confidence even if it happened subconsciously. Pop didn’t help either player with his choice and he easily could have explained Dejounte’s benching as him coming back, easier to manage his minutes etc. He was treated as a star, a proven starter because of that contract and Pop’s confidence in him. I was pretty happy when he got paid because he looked great in preseason and I expected him to sustain that (and with time build upon it and improve, not a crazy hope considering he had only really Gad a single full season back then—again in hindsight a small sample). But I have waffled and thought it was a mistake on hindsight but of course hindsight is always right. It’s not just that it was too much, but that it was pretty premature.

Anyways, that’s passed and Bryn is gone and hopefully Murray’s deal doesn’t hinder minutes for Vassell, White or Johnson when they are back.

[SAGirl]

I do think we agree that White is the best of the trio. I also don't think Forbes is necessarily better than Murray. I just think people took the wrong lessons from last season. Pop should've gone with what he knew worked and then worked in Walker as soon as Lonnie was ready to hit corner threes. Instead he froze out Walker, benched White and stuck with the awful Murray/Forbes duo. He almost seemed intimidated by Murray and started him out of fear. Because, like, Murray was never a good starter. There was no reason to look at his 2017-2018 performance and go, "Yeah, he should get his job back.". Then they gave DJM a ton of money, which meant they had to start him this season too. Then they refused to trade him enough to his value was supposedly decent.

I just have a feeling that Murray's going to hold the team back again and basically kill Walker's career, and the thing ST will take from it again is that the roster is horrible and that Murray and White are a good starting duo.
Agree that Pop was awful on multiple fronts last year. The bubble gave me hope but then players have been saying (isn’t Murray among them?) that he just let them play free and not scheme and do whatever.

[Mugen]

So many eyes are going to be opened when Pop retires and a black cloud is lifted over the entire franchise :lol

[GAustex]

Tim Duncan made poop

[KobesAchilles]

No game day thread? I'm no good at that shit otherwise I would make one. But c'mon man

[daslicer]

Tim Duncan made poop

Have been saying this for years.

[Atl Spur]

So many eyes are going to be opened when Pop retires and a black cloud is lifted over the entire franchise :lol

Please stop........ 29 other teams are available for fandom! You don’t have to sit here and enjoy stability & success for two decades!! You deserve better hoss....

[Atl Spur]

Tim Duncan made poop

Most great coaches ride the success of great players ( you didn’t have to say it because pop always says it )!! Lol

[Atl Spur]

But you do realize plenty of great players never sniffed championships because of subpar coaching right?

[Atl Spur]

Clowns on this board are the only ones hating on pop so hard.......the rest of the leagues/players/coaches must not be as smart as the few on this board, facts be damned!!������������������������������

[rjv]

Clowns on this board are the only ones hating on pop so hard.......the rest of the leagues/players/coaches must not be as smart as the few on this board, facts be damned!!������������������������������

ST has a lot of self-proclaimed basketball experts and they're all undefeated.

[GAustex]

subpar coaches can win with great players-poop might have screwed Duncan out of more chips.

and if poop is so great how come no good players want to come play for him.

Got no answer sniffers-not to that one.

That drunk ass saw something in Demarre Carrol and gave him a boat load of money

What a fucking dumb ass poop is

[Sugus]

subpar coaches can win with great players-poop might have screwed Duncan out of more chips.

and if poop is so great how come no good players want to come play for him.

Got no answer sniffers-not to that one.

That drunk ass saw something in Demarre Carrol and gave him a boat load of money

What a fucking dumb ass poop is

You can just as easily argue that Pop allowed Duncan to win a plethora of rings, which other coaches couldn't have accomplished. Even a greater talent in LeBum doesn't have as many - a bird in the hand...

Players not wanting to come play in middle-of-nowhere butt Texas town, small market SanAntonio has literally nothing to do with Pop (are you expecting FAs to start coming here once he retires? :lol).

Pop is not GM and isn't wholly responsible for DMC's signing (nor any signing, for better or worse, he shares the glory and blame with RC/Wright), though he of course is to blame for not playing him and whatnot. Has been discussed ad-nauseum, doesn't mean he's not a good coach whatsoever.


A good chunk of ST posters are irrationally and unnecessarily angry at Pop for the pettiest reasons, tbh. He isn't infallible and has never claimed to be. Yet he's a constant scapegoat here. Gets old.

[Dex]

You can just as easily argue that Pop allowed Duncan to win a plethora of rings, which other coaches couldn't have accomplished. Even a greater talent in LeBum doesn't have as many - a bird in the hand...

Players not wanting to come play in middle-of-nowhere butt Texas town, small market SanAntonio has literally nothing to do with Pop (are you expecting FAs to start coming here once he retires? :lol).

Pop is not GM and isn't wholly responsible for DMC's signing (nor any signing, for better or worse, he shares the glory and blame with RC/Wright), though he of course is to blame for not playing him and whatnot. Has been discussed ad-nauseum, doesn't mean he's not a good coach whatsoever.


A good chunk of ST posters are irrationally and unnecessarily angry at Pop for the pettiest reasons, tbh. He isn't infallible and has never claimed to be. Yet he's a constant scapegoat here. Gets old.

You are arguing with someone who is calling a renowned Hall of Fame coach "poop" like a goddamn 5-year-old. This is the best they can come up with because they are simply trolling for a reaction.

Don't waste your time with these idiots.

[rjv]

You can just as easily argue that Pop allowed Duncan to win a plethora of rings, which other coaches couldn't have accomplished. Even a greater talent in LeBum doesn't have as many - a bird in the hand...

Players not wanting to come play in middle-of-nowhere butt Texas town, small market SanAntonio has literally nothing to do with Pop (are you expecting FAs to start coming here once he retires? :lol).

Pop is not GM and isn't wholly responsible for DMC's signing (nor any signing, for better or worse, he shares the glory and blame with RC/Wright), though he of course is to blame for not playing him and whatnot. Has been discussed ad-nauseum, doesn't mean he's not a good coach whatsoever.


A good chunk of ST posters are irrationally and unnecessarily angry at Pop for the pettiest reasons, tbh. He isn't infallible and has never claimed to be. Yet he's a constant scapegoat here. Gets old.

not to mention, that there are a few ST posters whose disdain for Pop just happened to coincide with Pop airing out his political views on the trump administration.

[GAustex]

Thinking that old drunk does not approve everything
Playing Forbes
Not able to handle #2
Hitching his wagon to DDR
Getting used by Morris giving away Davis signing Lyles (not bad given the circumstances WHICH he created) and Carroll
The stench he is responsible for hangs over the young players holding them down.
Yeah he great alright
Great at coattailing off the a great one.
Slurpers slurping for the said same political reasons stated
It is what it is. Time will pass and he finally move on. Things will settle down then. He should have left with Tim like he said he was gonna do.

[Sugus]

You are arguing with someone who is calling a renowned Hall of Fame coach "poop" like a goddamn 5-year-old. This is the best they can come up with because they are simply trolling for a reaction.

Don't waste your time with these idiots.

You're absolutely right, tbh, it was just low hanging fruit... Hard to resist the bait.

[RC_Drunkford]

You are arguing with someone who is calling a renowned Hall of Fame coach "poop" like a goddamn 5-year-old. This is the best they can come up with because they are simply trolling for a reaction.

Don't waste your time with these idiots.

Flopovich fits way better

[TD 21]

:lmao Of course people within' the league will always speaking highly of him on the record, he's one of the most decorated executives/coaches in league history.

Anyone who's unbiased and possesses common sense knows that he lucked into an all time great player/core that created a utopian existence and were destined to win championships.

It's not a knock, just reality. None of these so called genius executives/coaches would be who they are otherwise.

[RC_Drunkford]

Well an interesting point is, that last year when they had these votes about best coach etc. Pop won best coach but was nowhere to be found in any of the other categories which were: adjustments, plays out of time out, etc. etc. etc. :lol :lol :lol

That says a lot

[Sugus]

Of course people within' the league will always speaking highly of him on the record, he's one of the most decorated executives/coaches in league history.

Anyone who's unbiased and possesses common sense knows that he lucked into (...)

Two words: cognitive dissonance.

[TD 21]

Two words: cognitive dissonance.

Two more: Brainwashed homer.

[r0drig0lac]

You can just as easily argue that Pop allowed Duncan to win a plethora of ringsinteresting, except 2012-2014, I totally disagree, but I would like to read the argument for that statement (mainly because you said it can be done easily)

[rankingtear]

no coach gets lucked into the 2014 offense that is the pinnacle of team basketball

[Sugus]

interesting, except 2012-2014, I totally disagree, but I would like to read the argument for that statement (mainly because you said it can be done easily)

There's not much to write, tbh. Duncan is an absolutely great talent to build teams around, but the fact that the Spurs managed such steady and prolific success cannot be attributed to luck alone, or mainly, especially when talking about a position as crucial to a team as Head Coach. Pop has been at the helm of some of the most innovative and successful offenses & teams through the years, managed to coach a multitude of teams and personalities to championships, and also managed to make the most of scrubs to maintain a two-decade long span of unending success. The fact that comparable talents to Timmy (Hakeem, for example, or anyone you'd like except for MJ and Russell) don't have as many rings as him speaks to his talent, to his teammates, and also to his coach and winning situations he was put in. And that's not to even mention Pop's accolades or career milestones, which haven't been a fluke.

Thinking back, I could've just replied " '14" and be done with it, it was that easy. But I felt like expanding. Pop is ridiculously over-hated here - posters just want to be contrarian to the public opinion for the sake of it. But Pop, even if he's 70 now and should've retired 2 years ago, is still a Top 3 all-time coach, tbh.

[Sugus]

Two more: Brainwashed homer.

Did you see the video of Masai wanting to pick Giannis in '13? https://streamable.com/7fwkqr

I'm sure he was just "lucking into" that prediction :lmao

[r0drig0lac]

There's not much to write, tbh. Duncan is an absolutely great talent to build teams around, but the fact that the Spurs managed such steady and prolific success cannot be attributed to luck alone, or mainly, especially when talking about a position as crucial to a team as Head Coach. Pop has been at the helm of some of the most innovative and successful offenses & teams through the years, managed to coach a multitude of teams and personalities to championships, and also managed to make the most of scrubs to maintain a two-decade long span of unending success. The fact that comparable talents to Timmy (Hakeem, for example, or anyone you'd like except for MJ and Russell) don't have as many rings as him speaks to his talent, to his teammates, and also to his coach and winning situations he was put in. And that's not to even mention Pop's accolades or career milestones, which haven't been a fluke.

Thinking back, I could've just replied " '14" and be done with it, it was that easy. But I felt like expanding. Pop is ridiculously over-hated here - posters just want to be contrarian to the public opinion for the sake of it. But Pop, even if he's 70 now and should've retired 2 years ago, is still a Top 3 all-time coach, tbh.

who talked about luck? it was ALL about Tim Duncan and the others were lucky to be on his side (Pop, Manu, Parker, Rob, Kawhi, etc...), and that does not diminish the individual talent of each of these characters, but they all orbited around Duncan, this is the only truth.




Thinking back, I could've just replied " '14" and be done with it, it was that easy.

in fact, this is common sense, so I believe the whole basketball community would agree, it’s not something to brag about or anything like that.

[Sugus]

Missed this reply.


who talked about luck?

Uh, TD 21 did - go read the quote I was pulling from him. He's (in)famous for attributing well-run FOs and moves to sheer luck, while overestimating the impact that players have on a franchise.


it was ALL about Tim Duncan and the others were lucky to be on his side (Pop, Manu, Parker, Rob, Kawhi, etc...), and that does not diminish the individual talent of each of these characters, but they all orbited around Duncan, this is the only truth.

The only "truth" is that Timmy isn't the only generational talent to step on an NBA court, but is one of the only generational talents to have the amount of rings and consistent winning that he's experienced. Am I in any way, shape or form dismissing Duncan's greatness? Not for a second. BUT assuming (again, I was originally replying to TD 21) that the only reason those rings were won, those championship teams formed, was all "luck", is ridiculous, disingenuous, and outright naïve at best.

This comes as a snippet of a much larger discussion to be had, IMO, which is what role exactly are coaches responsible of in a championship team/run. And it's a topic where I feel like there's a vast disagreement between the consensus of SpursTalk armchair GM's, and the rest of the NBA and its circles. To be honest, I never thought before coming here that I'd read some of these ridiculous takes about Pop or any other championship caliber coach that people spout on here, to the point that I'm convinced that some or all of them HAVE to be trolling. There is simply no way to have been watching the Spurs for as long as posters here have been posting, and not recognizing the amazing work Pop has done through the years. On a deeper level, frankly, I just think some posters don't understand the game on a deep enough level to truly "get" the importance that a coach like Pop has on a team and playoff run. It's easy to watch games and boxscores and make conclusions, but truly breaking the game down is hard, time-consuming, and unrewarding, and I hardly think posters here are going to analyze Pop's schemes and strategies during those title runs to see what Pop did or didn't do. They just remember the "big things" (and usually the bad things: taking Timmy out of the game, playing Splitter or Red Mamba unnecessarily, etc.).

Coaching can get chess-like during intense series, and I think the Spurs are no strangers to that. So when you say "it was ALL about Duncan and the others were lucky to be on his side", I say yes - but it goes both way. Timmy without Pop, wouldn't have 5 rings. Timmy without Manu wouldn't have 5 rings. Timmy without the Spurs wouldn't have 5 rings. There's a long, long, long list of talents wasted away on trash teams, talents that never had a good team built around them, and so on and forth. That's the argument I'm making, and it's fine if you disagree. I don't expect us to see eye-to-eye on this, I've said already that public opinion here is skewed, for reasons that I probably won't ever understand.


in fact, this is common sense, so I believe the whole basketball community would agree, it’s not something to brag about or anything like that.

I didn't get this part. What exactly is "common sense"? The fact that Pop single-handedly orchestrated one of, if not the greatest, team offensive schemes of all time? That part, we could agree on - though I don't think it's your point exactly :lol. The fact that Pop has managed to take such wildly different teams, through wildly different eras, to rings, is a testament in itself, and most other fanbases would give him a pass for everything that came after. Of course, not the Spoiled Spurs, but it is what it is. And I'm not talking about you, it's a common thing around here, tbh.

[TD 21]

:lmao At crediting him for '14, as if running a motion offense is akin to discovering plutonium. The reason it looked like it did was because of the collective basketball IQ, unselfishness and talent of the players involved.



Did you see the video of Masai wanting to pick Giannis in '13? https://streamable.com/7fwkqr

I'm sure he was just "lucking into" that prediction :lmao

:lmao At buying into that shameless self promotors out of context clip.

If he really had any idea Antetokounmpo was going to be anywhere near as good as he is, he'd have tried to move heaven and earth to select him.

I've never said the players are the only reasons, I said theyr'e by far the most important and certain ones would reach a threshold of success no matter who the president/GM/head coach were.

I notice you apologists can never point to direct ways coaches supposedly have significant impact because deep down you know, now more than ever, in the homogenized style of play/"player empowerment" era, they're just along for the ride.

[Dejounte]

Name a coach or front office who has adjusted their playing style with largely the same group of guys over the course of two decades.

"because of the collective basketball IQ, unselfishness and talent of the players involved."

Wait a minute, who attained those players in '14? Isn't your whole schtick that the Spurs just lucked into everything they ever had? Oh no... You indirectly complimented the Spurs without realizing it.

Did they just luck into that, too?

You can't have it both ways.

[TD 21]

Someone not being an unabashed homer = immediate meltdown. Funny how the guy who once called someone a "pussy for not quoting him" refuses to do the same.

The core players naturally adjusted as they ascended/decended, as Pop himself has said many times. It didn't take a genius to figure out to play through the post when by far the two best players were bigs, nor to transition to being more pick and roll reliant when they had two elite perimeter creators, then more ISO heavy again when that suited their two best players.

I used to be gullible and naive about this stuff too, buying into cliches like "culture" and "system", thinking the primary reason executives and coaches were successful or not was due to basketball intelligence.

[Dejounte]

Someone not being an unabashed homer = immediate meltdown. Funny how the guy who once called someone a "pussy for not quoting him" refuses to do the same.

The core players naturally adjusted as they ascended/decended, as Pop himself has said many times. It didn't take a genius to figure out to play through the post when by far the two best players were bigs, nor to transition to being more pick and roll reliant when they had two elite perimeter creators, then more ISO heavy again when that suited their two best players.

I used to be gullible and naive about this stuff too, buying into cliches like "culture" and "system", thinking the primary reason executives and coaches were successful or not was due to basketball intelligence.

You started this non-quoting thing. The difference is it's clear I'm talking directly to you. The other guy? Acted like a buffoon by pretending there were other people saying the same thing as I had. What "meltdown" occurred here? You get spoken to with the same condescending manner that you give out. My post wasn't even that "mean".

[TD 21]

You started this non-quoting thing. The difference is it's clear I'm talking directly to you. The other guy? Acted like a buffoon by pretending there were other people saying the same thing as I had. What "meltdown" occurred here? You get spoken to with the same condescending manner that you give out. My post wasn't even that "mean".

Nah, you did. I don't care, but it is hypocritical.

?

By your standards it was tame, I'll give you that. I wasn't condescending, but you and your butt buddy constantly are.

[Dejounte]

Nah, you did. I don't care, but it is hypocritical.

?

By your standards it was tame, I'll give you that. I wasn't condescending, but you and your butt buddy constantly are.

Never fails to surprise me how much you're lacking in self-awareness. Just end this before we go back and forth again. It's pointless when you're speaking to an asshole like yourself.

[TD 21]

Never fails to surprise me how much you're lacking in self-awareness. Just end this before we go back and forth again. It's pointless when you're speaking to an asshole like yourself.

:lmao At this coming from you.

[Dejounte]

:lmao At this coming from you.

I see that you can't let this go. You're not at all like DAF86 where we could meet anywhere eye to eye. You're this thorn on my side, an annoying pest that will be around forever. Guess we're just destined to argue with each other. Since you're afraid to settle this outside of this message board, there's no way around it. You'll continue to root for a team you hate (get real, if you're hoping for the a complete makeover of the front office, it's not going to happen - Pop will have a lasting imprint long after he's gone) and I'll continue to support a team I love. And you'll continue call me an apologist for it. What's sadder? Staying onboard a Spurs message board to criticize them for the rest of your life? Or me "blindly" supporting that team?

[TD 21]

I see that you can't let this go. You're not at all like DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) where we could meet anywhere eye to eye. You're this thorn on my side, an annoying pest that will be around forever. Guess we're just destined to argue with each other. Since you're afraid to settle this outside of this message board, there's no way around it. You'll continue to root for a team you hate (get real, if you're hoping for the a complete makeover of the front office, it's not going to happen - Pop will have a lasting imprint long after he's gone) and I'll continue to support a team I love. And you'll continue call me an apologist for it. What's sadder? Staying onboard a Spurs message board to criticize them for the rest of your life? Or me "blindly" supporting that team?

:lmao This guy is the gift that keeps on giving. Constant hypocrisy, zero self awareness, overly serious and a brainwashed apologist who thinks blindly supporting everything Spurs makes him a "real" fan.

I'm ready to "let it go" the second you start speaking to me with respect. Once you do so, I'll do so to you, the same way I am with everyone else.

[Dejounte]

:lmao This guy is the gift that keeps on giving. Constant hypocrisy, zero self awareness, overly serious and a brainwashed apologist who thinks blindly supporting everything Spurs makes him a "real" fan.

I'm ready to "let it go" the second you start speaking to me with respect. Once you do so, I'll do so to you, the same way I am with everyone else.

So you just throw every word I say back at me? You're very original. And Lol if you think you treat anyone with respect with the way you post. Such a clueless fuck.

If you learn to read, I used quotations around the word "blindly", which implied I don't--you just believe I do.

[TD 21]

So you just throw every word I say back at me? You're very original. And Lol if you think you treat anyone with respect with the way you post. Such a clueless fuck.

If you learn to read, I used quotations around the word "blindly", which implied I don't--you just believe I do.

:lmao Full on meltdown mode.

You hated Vassell, then loved him the moment they drafted him.

[Dejounte]

:lmao Full on meltdown mode.

You hated Vassell, then loved him the moment they drafted him.

Like I said I would, didn't I?

Ah I see switching gear now to change the topic to avoid self reflection.

[Seventyniner]

Coaching can get chess-like during intense series, and I think the Spurs are no strangers to that. So when you say "it was ALL about Duncan and the others were lucky to be on his side", I say yes - but it goes both way. Timmy without Pop, wouldn't have 5 rings. Timmy without Manu wouldn't have 5 rings. Timmy without the Spurs wouldn't have 5 rings. There's a long, long, long list of talents wasted away on trash teams, talents that never had a good team built around them, and so on and forth. That's the argument I'm making, and it's fine if you disagree. I don't expect us to see eye-to-eye on this, I've said already that public opinion here is skewed, for reasons that I probably won't ever understand.

I think the crux of the problem is that some are taking Pop's recent poor coaching and trying to make the (imo indefensible) claim that he was never that good to begin with.

Some fools used to do the same with Parker, bringing up failures from his prime years when he played poorly late in his career.

I am in the camp that 2014 alone proves Pop's genius, even though he was a great coach prior to that. You don't get an all-time great season with no transcendent in-prime talent without great coaching.

[Sugus]

:lmao At crediting him for '14, as if running a motion offense is akin to discovering plutonium. The reason it looked like it did was because of the collective basketball IQ, unselfishness and talent of the players involved.

You come off as head-in-your-ass dumb off this reply, man. Come on. Not giving credit to a coach for having his team achieve one of the most dominant regular & postseason runs of all time, championship included, biggest winning margin in the Finals kind of system? That's like not giving Phil any credit for the triangle. Ridiculous. I'm not even going to expand, it's just stupid that you're saying this. Talk about not understanding how coaching affects teams and winning.


:lmao At buying into that shameless self promotors out of context clip.

If he really had any idea Antetokounmpo was going to be anywhere near as good as he is, he'd have tried to move heaven and earth to select him.

I've never said the players are the only reasons, I said theyr'e by far the most important and certain ones would reach a threshold of success no matter who the president/GM/head coach were.

I notice you apologists can never point to direct ways coaches supposedly have significant impact because deep down you know, now more than ever, in the homogenized style of play/"player empowerment" era, they're just along for the ride.

Do you think putting emotes makes your sayings any more true? You're the only one laughing...

Anyways, another classic instance of being presented by evidence about good FOs being good FOs, and dismissing them. How can you say "If he really had any idea Antetokounmpo was going to be anywhere near as good as he is, he'd have tried to move heaven and earth to select him" when you're literally being presented a clip of Masai trying to get a deal done to get Giannis? What did you want him to do, give up the Raptors core for a 15th pick? Don't be ridiculous. Anyways, it's clear your mind is made up, it's surprisingly hard to get you to even meet eye-to-eye on anything but your own skewed perspectives.

Please, please define what you mean by "direct ways". I'm not going to start writing about coaching for you to not understand what I'm saying, quote a random sentence, and try to laugh the post off. Given coaching, by its nature, is mostly off-court, invisible to fans, intangible things, I'd really love to know what you consider "direct ways". Has any coach in history even made their teams better, tbh? Why don't teams just spend every dollar* on players and get AAU level coaches for pennies on the dollar to fill in? Weird how they keep paying millions of dollars for those guys, tbh...

[Sugus]

I think the crux of the problem is that some are taking Pop's recent poor coaching and trying to make the (imo indefensible) claim that he was never that good to begin with.

Some fools used to do the same with Parker, bringing up failures from his prime years when he played poorly late in his career.

I am in the camp that 2014 alone proves Pop's genius, even though he was a great coach prior to that. You don't get an all-time great season with no transcendent in-prime talent without great coaching.

I actually think the crux of the issue, is the surprisingly large amount of posters that never would give Pop any credit whatsoever for the Spurs' success. Like, I don't think it's a trend that started in '16-17, when the team was already falling. I truly think some of these guys have been touting Pop as a fly-on-the-wall in terms of the Spurs' achievements and winning culture since way back in the championships days. Numbers just don't work out another way.

Agreed on the Parker hate, another one of ST's autistic-like fixation on an otherwise well-respected player. Talk about choosing favorites between him and Manu... At least I'm content seeing the Manu love. :lol. Agreed on Pop's coaching, some of these posters truly don't understand what coaching is and how it can make or break, and elevate, teams. I'd love to see some random Miami Heat forum where fans are as toxic towards Pat Riley or Spolestra as posters here are towards Pop, tbh. Or a Bulls bizarro-ST where posters scream out that Phil would be nobody without Jordan. Can't imagine it, tbh :lmao

[TD 21]

Like I said I would, didn't I?

Ah I see switching gear now to change the topic to avoid self reflection.

Didn't you what?

:lmao Self reflection, says the hypocritical nut job, with anger issues, on a message board.



You come off as head-in-your-ass dumb off this reply, man. Come on. Not giving credit to a coach for having his team achieve one of the most dominant regular & postseason runs of all time, championship included, biggest winning margin in the Finals kind of system? That's like not giving Phil any credit for the triangle. Ridiculous. I'm not even going to expand, it's just stupid that you're saying this. Talk about not understanding how coaching affects teams and winning.



Do you think putting emotes makes your sayings any more true? You're the only one laughing...

Anyways, another classic instance of being presented by evidence about good FOs being good FOs, and dismissing them. How can you say "If he really had any idea Antetokounmpo was going to be anywhere near as good as he is, he'd have tried to move heaven and earth to select him" when you're literally being presented a clip of Masai trying to get a deal done to get Giannis? What did you want him to do, give up the Raptors core for a 15th pick? Don't be ridiculous. Anyways, it's clear your mind is made up, it's surprisingly hard to get you to even meet eye-to-eye on anything but your own skewed perspectives.

Please, please define what you mean by "direct ways". I'm not going to start writing about coaching for you to not understand what I'm saying, quote a random sentence, and try to laugh the post off. Given coaching, by its nature, is mostly off-court, invisible to fans, intangible things, I'd really love to know what you consider "direct ways". Has any coach in history even made their teams better, tbh? Why don't teams just spend every dollar* on players and get AAU level coaches for pennies on the dollar to fill in? Weird how they keep paying millions of dollars for those guys, tbh...

So basically, in this vauge, ad homenim riddled diatribe, you can't tell me what he did X's and O's wise that was so brilliant, can you?

I missed when you became a representative for the board.

It's self promoting nonsense that a novice like you would eat up. Notice they didn't leak all the times they were wrong in their assessments of players. Trying is not the same as being willing to move heaven and earth. The latter is what the Bucks just did for Holiday. Clearly overpaid, but didn't care because they thought getting him would go a ways to clinching Antetokounmpo's comittment.

They pay them millions because it's a multil billion dollar industry, so they have to get a reasonable piece of the pie.

[Dejounte]

I said I would support Devin pre-draft, idiot.

You're all talk with nothing to back it up TD 21

Bonafide pussy.

[TD 21]

I said I would support Devin pre-draft, idiot.

You're all talk with nothing to back it up TD 21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781)

Bonafide pussy.

I'm sure anyone who spent more than 5 minutes here saw you constantly bashing him, so whether you said that or not it was just to cover your bases in case they selected him, which in your warped mind meant you'd have to go full homer mode.

:lmao At the most sensitive person I've ever encountered on a message board now resorting to attempting to play internet tough guy. Keep :cry, psycho.

[Dejounte]

I'm sure anyone who spent more than 5 minutes here saw you constantly bashing him, so whether you said that or not it was just to cover your bases in case they selected him, which in your warped mind meant you'd have to go full homer mode.

:lmao At the most sensitive person I've ever encountered on a message board now resorting to attempting to play internet tough guy. Keep :cry, psycho.

I didn't deny constantly bashing him.

I did direct a message towards you regarding this when I specifically said that the difference between me and you was that I would live on with the results whereas you would continue to be miserable rooting for a team you hate.

I don't have to play as a internet tough guy. I've asked you twice if you want to meet up and settle this. I can back my shit up and all you can do is type behind your computer, pussy.

[TD 21]

I didn't deny constantly bashing him.

I did direct a message towards you regarding this when I specifically said that the difference between me and you was that I would live on with the results whereas you would continue to be miserable rooting for a team you hate.

I don't have to play as a internet tough guy. I've asked you twice if you want to meet up and settle this. I can back my shit up and all you can do is type behind your computer, pussy.

Congratulations, there's only oodles of evidence that proves this.

I'm not miserable nor do I hate them, you're just a brainwashed apologist who throws a fit everytime someone doesn't speak glowingly of all things Spurs.

You haven't asked me once and even had you, that along with the constant cussing just proves how far gone you are.

[Dejounte]

Congratulations, there's only oodles of evidence that proves this.

I'm not miserable nor do I hate them, you're just a brainwashed apologist who throws a fit everytime someone doesn't speak glowingly of all things Spurs.

You haven't asked me once and even had you, that along with the constant cussing just proves how far gone you are.

I've asked you twice. If I must again for a third time, then here I am asking you for the third time. Let's settle this in person.

If I did throw a fit, there's countless of posts bashing the Spurs and "Sniffers" alike that I've chosen to ignore. Why is that? You'll see plenty of posts here I don't reply to. It's mostly yours because of your condescending attitude.

You seem to have convenient short term memory when it suits you. Or just simply lying because you want to be a flake.

[Joseph Kony]

dejounte going full koriwhat :lol

[tonight...you]

Yup. This thread went to shit real fast.

[TD 21]

I've asked you twice. If I must again for a third time, then here I am asking you for the third time. Let's settle this in person.

If I did throw a fit, there's countless of posts bashing the Spurs and "Sniffers" alike that I've chosen to ignore. Why is that? You'll see plenty of posts here I don't reply to. It's mostly yours because of your condescending attitude.

You seem to have convenient short term memory when it suits you. Or just simply lying because you want to be a flake.

:rollin What are you, 10? There's nothing to "settle" except your chemical imbalance. Get help immediately.

Nah, it's because try as you might, even you realize you can't attempt to regulate everything.

I have a photographic memory. The thing with it though is, you actually have to care/focus enough to commit things to it.

[Dejounte]

:rollin What are you, 10? There's nothing to "settle" except your chemical imbalance. Get help immediately.

Nah, it's because try as you might, even you realize you can't attempt to regulate everything.

I have a photographic memory. The thing with it though is, you actually have to care/focus enough to commit things to it.

Photographic memory? That's the most bullshit I've ever heard. You're a comedian.

And no, it's not a "realization". It's because you are the biggest douchebag of them all.

Not just a douchebag, a pussy too apparently. Keep deflecting about my mental state. You have no idea who I am in real life. I'd be happy to show you in person.

[Sugus]

Yup. This thread went to shit real fast.

I didn't read the forum a bit, came to see what TD 21 answered me, and find this... :lol. When does the season start, again?