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spursupporter
11-10-2005, 09:16 AM
Spurs' Parker trying to catch Wizards' Arenas

San Antonio Express-News

You can start a hot debate by declaring the Wizards' Gilbert Arenas the fastest player in the NBA, as I did a little more than a week ago.

The Spurs' Tony Parker, for one, might question your sanity, not to mention the Hornets' Speedy Claxton. And then there is the Bucks' T.J. Ford, whose spinal injury doesn't appear to have affected his quickness even a fraction of a step.

There is not much debate when it comes to the relative shooting merits of Arenas and Parker. Arenas has the clear edge, which explains why he, not Parker, has been to the All-Star Game.

Parker went back to basics this summer in an attempt to correct the flaws that have allowed defenders to play off him on the perimeter. He re-tooled his shot under the tutelage of the Spurs' new "shot doctor," Chip Engelland.

Arenas was able to work this summer on the subtleties of his perimeter game, the "in-between" game, which is defined by Wizards general manager Ernie Grunfeld as "the two-dribble pull-up." His catch-and-shoot ability from 3-point range already was solid, but he spent lots of time on that, too.

Arenas is the primary reason the Wizards go into their home game against the Clippers as one of only three teams that made it through the first week of the regular season without a loss. His scoring average of 26 points per game ranks ninth in the league. He and Wizards forward Antawn Jamison combine for a scoring average of 50 points per game, one of only three duos in the league at 50 or more. Parker (22.5) and Tim Duncan (20.5), average 43.

Grunfeld knows his team, which advanced to the Eastern Conference semifinals last season before being swept by the Heat, has a chance to be one of East's top four teams if it can survive the first half in decent shape. After making some major roster changes designed to grow both bigger and tougher, the Wizards are still learning about one another. Their new roster also puts them in a group of three Eastern teams just a notch below the East's Big Three, the Pistons, Pacers and Heat. Washington's goal is to beat the Nets and the Cavs to home-court advantage in the first round of this season's playoffs. Arenas' continuing maturation is vital to that end.

To entice Arenas away from the Warriors in the summer of 2004 Grunfeld had to give him a contract worth $64 million over six seasons. At the time, it looked like a contract out of line with what Arenas had done in his short career. Now it looks like a smart deal for both parties.

"He's grown by leaps and bounds," Grunfeld said of Arenas. "He's an elite player in the league now and he's only 23 years old. He has a burning desire to compete and continue to improve. He's not afraid to put in the extra time that it takes to get better."

Arenas' contract also looked like a benchmark deal to Parker, who was taken with the penultimate pick of the first round of the 2001 draft, three spots ahead of Arenas, the second pick of the second round. Parker convinced the Spurs to give him $66 million over six years, largely because of what Grunfeld had given Arenas.

Grunfeld says Arenas and Antawn Jamison are the Wizards' unquestioned leaders; that Arenas has taken on an even greater leadership role already this season. Parker is doing the same thing with the Spurs, though his leadership status is defined less clearly than Arenas' because of the presence of Duncan and Manu Ginobili, both older, both All-Stars already.

Only one member of the draft class of 2001 has been an All-Star: second-rounder Arenas. Thus, there is no debate about one thing: When the Spurs and Wizards hook up Saturday at Washington's MCI Center, Parker will have added motivation to prove that he, like Arenas, belongs in the mid-season showcase of the league's best players.

And if Parker can use his quickness to consistently get past Arenas and into the paint, well, he also can prove that anyone who believes Arenas is faster is a fool. :king :king :king

spursupporter
11-10-2005, 09:19 AM
tony is faster than arenas!!!

boutons
11-10-2005, 09:38 AM
"consistently get past Arenas'

Being fastest on offense is a lot easier that being fast enough on defense to counter.
Being fastest is only for offense, not defense. If Tony's offense gets past Gilbert's defense, it doesn't mean Tony is fastest.

TDMVPDPOY
11-10-2005, 09:51 AM
arenas is just a better version of ben gordon, a ballhog, parker will make run him down

wildbill2u
11-10-2005, 10:06 AM
This will be a great game to watch because it will showcase two of the best young guards in the NBA.

I expect TP to come out loaded for bear. I just hope he doesn't press too much to show his scoring ability vs. Arenas.

Mr. Peabody
11-10-2005, 10:23 AM
I'd take Arenas over Parker any day of the week!
________
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picnroll
11-10-2005, 10:45 AM
I had an interest in the Spurs picking up Arenas since early his second year. Preferred Areans to Kidd. That said I've watched Arenas through the years A LOT. Two things about Arenas: 1) Parker has consistently outplayed Arenas whenever they've matched up and 2) Arenas makes bad decisions particulary in critical situations, trying to do way too much himself. After four years I'd take Parker and his decison making over Arenas.

MiNuS
11-10-2005, 10:50 AM
I had an interest in the Spurs picking up Arenas since early his second year. Preferred Areans to Kidd. That said I've watched Arenas through the years A LOT. Two things about Arenas: 1) Parker has consistently outplayed Arenas whenever they've matched up and 2) Arenas makes bad decisions particulary in critical situations, trying to do way too much himself. After four years I'd take Parker and his decison making over Arenas.
Parker can thank the verbal abuse he got from Pop for his decision making.

beirmeistr
11-10-2005, 11:20 AM
Wow! I did not know Arenas was only 23.

1Parker1
11-10-2005, 11:35 AM
Wow! I did not know Arenas was only 23.


yea me neither! I always thought he was older, around 27/28.

I think Arenas has a better, more consistent game that Parker, but he's too much of a ball hog and bad decision maker during crunch times. To me, Arenas has always seemed more of a SG than a PG.

Horry For 3!
11-10-2005, 11:57 AM
There is no way Arenas can be faster than Parker.

Doc Jerome
11-10-2005, 01:08 PM
I have not seen Arenas play that much; but, on the occasions I have, he did not appear to be faster than TP. It will be an interesting matchup.

Because it's early in the season, now is the time for TP to make a statement as to where he stands among the NBA's elite point guards.

I even think Pop would like to see him go off on some of the better point guards in the league.

boutons
11-10-2005, 01:33 PM
Fuck statements, Spurs aren't about personal statements and accomplishments and pissing matches. Just win the game.

Spurs lost @WAS last season, the reason everybody else said was that Tim didn't play, even though Wizards were a weak EC, low-playoff team. They have more pretensions this year, but have started weakly. Payback time.

nkdlunch
11-10-2005, 01:48 PM
Fuck statements, Spurs aren't about personal statements and accomplishments and pissing matches. Just win the game.


exactly. Like I said before. Glad Tony is doing super, but he better not forget to involve the other teammates. and better not become an Arenas type point-guard. Arenas is awesome, but will never win a championship playing that way.

Marcus Bryant
11-10-2005, 02:22 PM
I think Parker has done quite well in distributing the rock in the Spurs' offense. Expecting him to dominate the rock and put up 9+ assists a night is quite unrealistic.

timvp
11-10-2005, 02:43 PM
To say Arenas is the fastest player in the league is a joke. The guy is a very good shooter and he's big and strong for a point guard, but he's not that fast. He has about average speed for a point guard. Many players, not just Parker, are much, much faster.

And the head-to-head comparison between the two players isn't close. In their careers, Parker has owned Arenas. According to the scholar timvp in this thread (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10450), this is how they stack up when playing against each other:

OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS

Tony Parker
17.8 points per game
6.5 assists per game
5.3 rebounds per game
54.7% from the floor
1.5 turnovers per game
30.3 minutes per game

Gilbert Arenas
13.8 points per game
2.3 assists per games
4.5 rebounds per game
24.4% from the floor
2 turnovers per game
36.3 minutes per game

Marcus Bryant
11-10-2005, 02:44 PM
The grass is always greener...

nkdlunch
11-10-2005, 02:49 PM
To say Arenas is the fastest player in the league is a joke. The guy is a very good shooter and he's big and strong for a point guard, but he's not that fast. He has about average speed for a point guard. Many players, not just Parker, are much, much faster.


Have u ever seen Arenas play??? he is damn fast, not the fastest yes I agree, and not faster than Paker but he is up there. He is also not a great shooter, he just takes many, many shots.

timvp
11-10-2005, 03:00 PM
Have u ever seen Arenas play??? he is damn fast, not the fastest yes I agree, and not faster than Paker but he is up there.

He's fast but 95% of point guards are considered fast. I could name plenty of players in the league faster than him.


He is also not a great shooter, he just takes many, many shots.

Who said he was a great shooter?

nkdlunch
11-10-2005, 03:07 PM
You said he was average speed PG and good shooter.

I think he is a top 10 fastest PG and average shooter. I've seen him play many many times live. I agree on TV you can't tell how fast a guy really is. Arenas is super fast beleive me.

timvp
11-10-2005, 03:16 PM
You said he was average speed PG and good shooter.

I think he is a top 10 fastest PG and average shooter. I've seen him play many many times live. I agree on TV you can't tell how fast a guy really is. Arenas is super fast beleive me.

Tony Parker
Chris Paul
Marcus Banks
Devin Harris
Leandro Barbosa
TJ Ford
Allen Iverson
Nate Robinson
Speedy Claxton
Keyon Dooling
Raymond Felton
Tyronn Lue
Jannero Pargo
Earl Boykins

That's off the top of my head and they are all faster than Arenas.

Apology Accepted.

timvp
11-10-2005, 03:18 PM
Oh and last year he was 205-for-562 on three-pointers. That is a little better than an "average" shooter. :lol

nkdlunch
11-10-2005, 03:19 PM
Tyronn Lue
Jannero Pargo



:lmao you gotta be kiddin, Tyron Lue??? maybe if Arenas is on crutches. :lol
same about Pargo


Apology by timvp Accepted by NKD

:tu

timvp
11-10-2005, 03:21 PM
Tyronn Lue is lightning fast. Have you ever seen him play?

And even if I give you Lue, there's still 13 other players on the list.

Oops.

Stick to soccer.

:smokin

timvp
11-10-2005, 03:22 PM
Nice edit. Pargo is even faster than Lue.

And if I give you both, there are 12 others on the list.

Futbol.

:smokin

Cant_Be_Faded
11-10-2005, 03:23 PM
i dont think pargo is on the faster end of point guards either

nkdlunch
11-10-2005, 03:23 PM
yes I've seen him play. He played in DC too. That's why I can't really speak for the others, 'cause to judge speed, you really have to see the players live, not on TV. Again your statement, that Arenas is average speed is ridiculous. End of story.

timvp
11-10-2005, 03:28 PM
i dont think pargo is on the faster end of point guards either

Is that why Pargo has a top ten fastest time ever in the Chicago draft camp speed drills?

timvp
11-10-2005, 03:29 PM
yes I've seen him play. He played in DC too. That's why I can't really speak for the others, 'cause to judge speed, you really have to see the players live, not on TV. Again your statement, that Arenas is average speed is ridiculous. End of story.

So if I've seen them all play in person, wouldn't I be a better judge of speed?

Thought so.

Cant_Be_Faded
11-10-2005, 03:30 PM
Is that why Pargo has a top ten fastest time ever in the Chicago draft camp speed drills?

Maybe. My wife isn't in the media and I don't have access to every basketball resource known to man, but I have seen him handle the ball against teams in game situations, and he is not a top 10 fastest point guard.

It's easier to do a drill than to play the game.

timvp
11-10-2005, 03:33 PM
Maybe. My wife isn't in the media and I don't have access to every basketball resource known to man, but I have seen him handle the ball against teams in game situations, and he is not a top 10 fastest point guard.

It's easier to do a drill than to play the game.

I listed 14 guards. Yeah, I'd say he's not in the top ten.

But he's still damn fast.

Cant_Be_Faded
11-10-2005, 03:36 PM
Naturally. I'm sure every potential point guard in the nba is faster than even victoria legend Bo Malette...

If we're talking 40 times or something like that, I would have to guess the distribution of speeds is very clumped. But most of this is kind of subjective anyways. I've always thought TP was the fastest ever, but naturally, cuz I'm a TP fan.

leemajors
11-10-2005, 03:49 PM
i would say what makes parker look so damn fast is his ability to cut and change direction so quickly. in 2 steps he is seemingly at top speed again.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-10-2005, 09:14 PM
Timvp owns nkdlunch on this one IMHO...

On the flipside, who is the SLOWEST PG in the league? Jaric? Cassell? Payton, now that he's on crutches? Who is the guy that just can't blow by anybody???

ChumpDumper
11-10-2005, 09:21 PM
Beno

Cant_Be_Faded
11-10-2005, 09:40 PM
LOL
once again the knowledge has been dumped
Why dont they record and publish 40m times for basketball?

leemajors
11-11-2005, 12:01 AM
because no one runs in a straight line for 40m on the court.