Shams: Doug McDermott, Spurs Agree to 3-Yr, $42M Deal

[DPG21920]

There were no good FAs available this year at a high price point.

And it looks like next years Fa class is a bust too. So it’s trades and picks.

[BackHome]

Yep my dream is the Spurs getting 2022 top 3 draft pick and 2023 top 3 draft pick and get us our Batman and Robin and we good to go. Is that going to happen probably not but we definitely need to land a too 3 this next draft because they are a couple of players you can build a team around.

[rankingtear]

Furkan Korkmaz, who signed for 3 years/15mil. Younger, still improving, & fits the timeline better. Not quite the offensive player McDermott is right now, but also not the extreme defensive liability, and almost 1/3rd the salary.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=korkmfu01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=mcderdo01&p2yrfrom=2021

They need McDermott type offensive player now to develop the guys that matter.

[tbdog]

They need McDermott type offensive player now to develop the guys that matter.

Agree. I forgotten point. Also Korkmaz didn't shoot great considering the team he was on.

[slick'81]

Spurs def got in on all the shooters they could. Dougie will be a solid addition,and gay replacement with scoring/shooting off the pine

[tbdog]

McDermott would be a a better fit while Gay is probably the better player. Perhaps not next year though. McDermott won't get his number called for those iso's that Gay got yet will still put up similar points per night.

[RC_Drunkford]

People here are stupid. Star players in the NBA make over 40 Million per year, but somehow John Collins for 28 is an overpay and McDermott and Zach Collins for 21 Million ain’t :lmao

[objective]

People here are stupid. Star players in the NBA make over 40 Million per year, but somehow John Collins for 28 is an overpay and McDermott and Zach Collins for 21 Million ain’t :lmao

Yeah, but you forgot about Bryn Forbes.

NOW compare that $25 million to John Collins $28 million.

2 of the worst defenders in the NBA and a player who in an interview said he hadn't executed the act of running in over a calendar year and still wouldn't for months.

John Collins ain't looking so hot now, is he?

[tbdog]

Collins is a really good role player. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a star or even a robin. Also I am not sure it's wise to invest in strictly on a 4 at a rookie Max.

Also it's possible that spurs spies thought Hawks will match and therefore they would have missed out.

[Chinook]

The problem is we had that and the FO did nothing. We had people making up reasons why the vets shouldn’t be traded and how it’s about culture etc.

That plan only works if the front office is capable of making moves to jump forward and this FO has not shown the ability to do so. So getting a top pick for this team is the best way and I wanted Collins badly. But they couldn’t make it happen this time.

I don't think there was a clear window that the Spurs missed that you can frame it that way. We don't know if they're a 40-win team now. They have cap flexibility and are gaining assets, but they'll need guys to develop before they're actually in that pre-Duncan mode. That was a solid playoff team that couldn't win a title. The Spurs aren't there, and they shouldn't even be expected to make the play-in with White's injury history.

We'll see. I agree that we don't know if the FO will make the necessary moves. Not signing Collins was one thing, and everyone knows that I wanted them to prune away some young players to stimulate new growth. That not happening is a bigger red flag than they not getting a big fish with their cap space.

[lefty20]

People here are stupid. Star players in the NBA make over 40 Million per year, but somehow John Collins for 28 is an overpay and McDermott and Zach Collins for 21 Million ain’t :lmao

Adding JoCo would've solidified us as a treadmill team with a 1rd exit as our ceiling. Otoh, McBuckets/ZoCo give us a shot at top 5 pick.


Tank is the way!

[Mr. Body]

People here are stupid. Star players in the NBA make over 40 Million per year, but somehow John Collins for 28 is an overpay and McDermott and Zach Collins for 21 Million ain’t :lmao

That's some mealy-mouthed shit. Congratulations. You have a career in politics.

[JeffDuncan]

Spotrac shows McDermott on the Spurs active roster now, if that hasn’t been mentioned already. They’re usually reliable.

In other words the McDermott signing has gotten official NBA approval it appears.

[Mr. Body]

The problem is we had that and the FO did nothing. We had people making up reasons why the vets shouldn’t be traded and how it’s about culture etc.

That plan only works if the front office is capable of making moves to jump forward and this FO has not shown the ability to do so. So getting a top pick for this team is the best way and I wanted Collins badly. But they couldn’t make it happen this time.

The FO did plenty. I've said it elsewhere, the talent on the team is already on the team. Free Agency periods only have bit players and marginal players nowadays; otherwise they get snapped up and SAS ain't a player nowadays. There are a number of young guards and wings on the team already and what they needed was to let the vets go and put shooters around them to open up the floor.

That's exactly what they did, plus potentially found the next overseas contributor in Landale. I know people shit their britches here about Z. Collins, but they could afford to take a healthy swing at a young big talent.

That's it. Instead of tying up loads of cash on maybe-fits and potential chemistry-wreckers, they're giving this team to Keldon, Dejounte, and everyone else. This is exactly what they should have done.

[Cardinal]

Not sure if this has been posted yet - looks like McDermott gave an interview after the signing became official. He's saying all the right things at least, talking about wanting to be in San Antonio, praising the young talent, and explaining that he's always envisioned his game fitting into a system like the Spurs' where he can move without the ball and provide space for the young creators to operate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ai839l2Qn8

[lmbebo]

Not sure if this has been posted yet - looks like McDermott gave an interview after the signing became official. He's saying all the right things at least, talking about wanting to be in San Antonio, praising the young talent, and explaining that he's always envisioned his game fitting into a system like the Spurs' where he can move without the ball and provide space for the young creators to operate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ai839l2Qn8

memorized the script ...

[Mr. Body]

Not sure if this has been posted yet - looks like McDermott gave an interview after the signing became official. He's saying all the right things at least, talking about wanting to be in San Antonio, praising the young talent, and explaining that he's always envisioned his game fitting into a system like the Spurs' where he can move without the ball and provide space for the young creators to operate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ai839l2Qn8

I believe when he was with Creighton in the NCAAT, they played in San Antonio and he claimed at the time the Spurs were his favorite team.

[8FOR!3]

Honestly career numbers show that we're getting as good or better shooter than championship year Marco Belinelli. McDermott is bigger and does a little more imo. If anything you can argue Belli was a slightly more aggressive shooter, but I think we will really like what McBuckets brings to the table. And we really need his shooting.

[baseline bum]

Maybe worse than treadmill, really. Signing Collins to huge money would likely mean having to get rid of good young guard talent down the line. I can't imagine spending 30 million a year or whatever for that guy.

I mean, the geniuses on this board were in love with getting Tobias Harris for ungodly money a few years ago and now Philly is desperate to get rid of him.

What good young talent? The only good young talent the team has on a rookie contract is Keldon.

[baseline bum]

The FO did plenty. I've said it elsewhere, the talent on the team is already on the team. Free Agency periods only have bit players and marginal players nowadays; otherwise they get snapped up and SAS ain't a player nowadays. There are a number of young guards and wings on the team already and what they needed was to let the vets go and put shooters around them to open up the floor.

That's exactly what they did, plus potentially found the next overseas contributor in Landale. I know people shit their britches here about Z. Collins, but they could afford to take a healthy swing at a young big talent.

That's it. Instead of tying up loads of cash on maybe-fits and potential chemistry-wreckers, they're giving this team to Keldon, Dejounte, and everyone else. This is exactly what they should have done.

Collins was the young big talent, not Zollins. :lmao

Zollins has never done shit in the NBA. Yeah I'll take Collins over McDermott + Zollins + Forbes.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm not down on the McDermott signing. Zollins and Forbes...yes, for sure.

But I think McDermott is going to help open up the offense a lot. He moves well without the ball, finds his spots, makes pretty good heady decisions on the offensive side of the ball. Defensively, not good, but perhaps he can at least become somewhat serviceable there. He's basically making last year's Rudy Gay money, and I think he'll be a bit of a step up from what Rudy was able to bring at this point in his career. This signing didn't disappoint me. It was the Zollins and then the Forbes signing that pushed me over the edge and made me want to drive my van over a cliff. Then I remembered it's parked by the river, no cliffs to be seen, and won't start, so all was good.

[Mr. Body]

Collins was the young big talent, not Zollins. :lmao

Zollins has never done shit in the NBA. Yeah I'll take Collins over McDermott + Zollins + Forbes.

I understand you like pissing in your own mouth, but I won't.

[RC_Drunkford]

Collins is a really good role player. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a star or even a robin. Also I am not sure it's wise to invest in strictly on a 4 at a rookie Max.

Also it's possible that spurs spies thought Hawks will match and therefore they would have missed out.

He was obviously the 2nd best player on a Hawks team that made the ECF and went 6 games against the NBA Champs. That's enough proof of him being a Robin already and he's only 23.

[baseline bum]

I understand you like pissing in your own mouth, but I won't.

LOL you think some scrub who never did shit when healthy is a big talent because he was drafted #10 four years ago.

[Truckules]

One thing that I found interesting was that RAPTOR had him as a significantly worse defender last year than the 3 previous years. Some of that is probably due to playing more starter minutes and some is probably due to just how bad Nate Bjorkgren seems to be as a head coach and how bad the Pacers season went. His advanced stats definitely make me think of Beli, and that's the kind of role I think he'll have on the team.

Hopefully, he'll be good enough that Forbes never sees the floor, but I think in all likelihood they're going to play together off the bench. It'll be a worse version of the 13-14 bench with no Manu to run the show. Maybe they'd consider moving Dejounte to the bench and running something like Murray, Forbes, Vassell, McDermott, Young? It's a very undersized lineup, but it would probably be a lot of fun to watch.

[John B]

I think it’s a great pickup. Spurs needed a shooter, well McBuckets is one of the best. He has size in contrast with Forbes :bang, Beli and Patty. And he’s still relatively young at 29 and coming off from his best career at 14 pts a game. Not too shabby.

[Chinook]

But bottom line is the Spurs got something out of nothing so can't be too upset no matter what it is. If they actually get a pick in the 30s either year, that'd be a huge win. Those picks are really valuable ... and it looks like the Spurs get two cracks at getting lucky in that regard.


2023 second round draft pick from Indiana

Indiana's 2023 2nd round pick to San Antonio protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Indiana's obligation to San Antonio will be extinguished) [Indiana-San Antonio, 8/7/2021]

2026 second round draft pick from Indiana or Miami (swap, San Antonio outgoing to Indiana)

Memphis will receive the more favorable of Indiana's 2026 2nd round pick and Miami's 2026 2nd round pick; San Antonio will receive the more favorable of (i) its 2026 2nd round pick and (ii) the less favorable of the Indiana pick and the Miami pick and Indiana will receive the least favorable of the three (via Miami to Indiana; via Milwaukee to Memphis; via San Antonio's right to swap for Indiana or Miami) [Indiana-Miami-Phoenix, 7/6/2019; Indiana-Milwaukee, 7/30/2021; Memphis-Milwaukee, 8/7/2021; Indiana-San Antonio, 8/7/2021]


2023 second round draft pick to Indiana
San Antonio's 2023 2nd round pick to Indiana protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then San Antonio's obligation to Indiana will be extinguished) [Indiana-San Antonio, 8/7/2021]

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So if these are the protections on the pick, then the deal was bad. Basically looks like SA tried to do it for free (asset-wise at least; I wouldn't be surprised if the Holts got some cash for it) by exchanging heavily protected second-rounders, but the league nixed that and demanded the swap instead to fulfill the requirements. The Spurs not only get a poor swap (they have to do better than both Indy and Miami in 2026 to improve their second), they will likely not get that 2023 second at all from Indy. It's even possible for SA to give up their 2023, Indy to keep their 2023 and for the Spurs to not get the swap, meaning the Spurs might actually end up trading a second-rounder in order to do the Pacers the favor of giving them a TE. This is bad. I am okay with the team basically getting nothing considering they were doing a tiny favor, and I know the worst-case scenario is unlikely to happen. But the Spurs could've just sent a bit of cash back to make this trade happen. But they prioritized keeping that and risking losing a pick.

I'm still hoping that will end up being updated to reflect a better level of protections. From what I see now, it would've been better to not have done this trade at all if Indy wasn't willing to offer anything from it.

[Robz4000]

:lol Wrong at it again

[lefty20]

What the actual fuck? BW's nice guy schtick has gotten outta control, tbh.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Collins was the young big talent, not Zollins. :lmao

Zollins has never done shit in the NBA. Yeah I'll take Collins over McDermott + Zollins + Forbes.

The FO would love to give John Collins the max.
The problem is that the Hawks would definitely match.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

He was obviously the 2nd best player on a Hawks team that made the ECF and went 6 games against the NBA Champs. That's enough proof of him being a Robin already and he's only 23.

Yes this is true. if we get John Collins, we're actually one star away from contending for a championship. With John Collins, we can get into playoff again. By getting into playoff this year and playing well, we will be able to attract another star. Like Chinook said, this is more reasonable way to build a championship, not just keeping tanking. If we keep tanking, the young guys will never develop.

[baseline bum]

The FO would love to give John Collins the max.
The problem is that the Hawks would definitely match.

Would have been better either way. McDermott signs somewhere else if they match, Spurs have no money to sign his scrub ass if they don't. Atlanta ended up getting Collins signed a lot lower than max. Max Spurs could offer would have been 4 years, $119 million and he signed for 5 years, $125 million. Not a sure thing that Atlanta would have matched.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Would have been better either way. McDermott signs somewhere else if they match, Spurs have no money to sign his scrub ass if they don't. Atlanta ended up getting Collins signed a lot lower than max. Max Spurs could offer would have been 4 years, $119 million and he signed for 5 years, $125 million. Not a sure thing that Atlanta would have matched.

Have to respectfully disagree on this. McDermott is actually a good player for our young guys to develop. He is a good plan B since plan A is not achievable (getting John Collins).

[Robz4000]

:lol gonna be hilarious when all these sniffers have to jump through hoops to defend Wrong and McDipshit while he's on the court bricking shots and getting destroyed on defense on a nightly basis

[tbdog]

He was obviously the 2nd best player on a Hawks team that made the ECF and went 6 games against the NBA Champs. That's enough proof of him being a Robin already and he's only 23.

His usage rate in the playoffs was third. He avg 13.9ppg in the playoffs, tiny bit less that Bogdonavic and a 1 point more than Reddish and Gallinari, despite Reddish and Gallinari 7 less minutes.

[spurraider21]

:lol gonna be hilarious when all these sniffers have to jump through hoops to defend Wrong and McDipshit while he's on the court bricking shots and getting destroyed on defense on a nightly basis
how dareth you slander sir douglas of house mcbuckets

[timvp]

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

So if these are the protections on the pick, then the deal was bad. Basically looks like SA tried to do it for free (asset-wise at least; I wouldn't be surprised if the Holts got some cash for it) by exchanging heavily protected second-rounders, but the league nixed that and demanded the swap instead to fulfill the requirements. The Spurs not only get a poor swap (they have to do better than both Indy and Miami in 2026 to improve their second), they will likely not get that 2023 second at all from Indy. It's even possible for SA to give up their 2023, Indy to keep their 2023 and for the Spurs to not get the swap, meaning the Spurs might actually end up trading a second-rounder in order to do the Pacers the favor of giving them a TE. This is bad. I am okay with the team basically getting nothing considering they were doing a tiny favor, and I know the worst-case scenario is unlikely to happen. But the Spurs could've just sent a bit of cash back to make this trade happen. But they prioritized keeping that and risking losing a pick.

I'm still hoping that will end up being updated to reflect a better level of protections. From what I see now, it would've been better to not have done this trade at all if Indy wasn't willing to offer anything from it.

Good find, Chinook.

Wow, I take back anything positive I said about the picks in this trade. That's such a pitiful return that the Spurs shouldn't have even agreed to do the trade. The Pacers would have to be a top-five team in the NBA in 2023 or the Spurs would have to finish with a better record than both Indiana and Miami in 2026 to be able to swap a second rounder in that draft. And then even if the latter situation happens, the Spurs get the worse of the Indiana and Miami picks. The chances of this trade benefiting the Spurs are microscopic.

And, yeah, if the Spurs miraculously become a top-five team in the NBA in 2023, they'll actually lose on a trade where they were doing the Pacers a favor :lol

If there's not more to the story (like cash [which would be a pretty lame reason, too, tbh] or these details are wrong), there was no reason to complete the trade. Not only do you get nothing in this trade, you set a bad precedent for future trades. Creating a $7 million trade exception for the Pacers should have been worth something tangible. This makes it look like the Spurs were just playing that "nice guy" role again.

[spurraider21]

i miss RC minus the loyalty contracts

[Robz4000]

Good find, Chinook.

Wow, I take back anything positive I said about the picks in this trade. That's such a pitiful return that the Spurs shouldn't have even agreed to do the trade. The Pacers would have to be a top-five team in the NBA in 2023 or the Spurs would have to finish with a better record than both Indiana and Miami in 2026 to be able to swap a second rounder in that draft. And then even if the latter situation happens, the Spurs get the worse of the Indiana and Miami picks. The chances of this trade benefiting the Spurs are microscopic.

And, yeah, if the Spurs miraculously become a top-five team in the NBA in 2023, they'll actually lose on a trade where they were doing the Pacers a favor :lol

If there's not more to the story (like cash [which would be a pretty lame reason, too, tbh] or these details are wrong), there was no reason to complete the trade. Not only do you get nothing in this trade, you set a bad precedent for future trades. Creating a $7 million trade exception for the Pacers should have been worth something tangible. This makes it look like the Spurs were just playing that "nice guy" role again.

CREAM team doe !!!

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Good find, Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557).

Wow, I take back anything positive I said about the picks in this trade. That's such a pitiful return that the Spurs shouldn't have even agreed to do the trade. The Pacers would have to be a top-five team in the NBA in 2023 or the Spurs would have to finish with a better record than both Indiana and Miami in 2026 to be able to swap a second rounder in that draft. And then even if the latter situation happens, the Spurs get the worse of the Indiana and Miami picks. The chances of this trade benefiting the Spurs are microscopic.

And, yeah, if the Spurs miraculously become a top-five team in the NBA in 2023, they'll actually lose on a trade where they were doing the Pacers a favor :lol

If there's not more to the story (like cash [which would be a pretty lame reason, too, tbh] or these details are wrong), there was no reason to complete the trade. Not only do you get nothing in this trade, you set a bad precedent for future trades. Creating a $7 million trade exception for the Pacers should have been worth something tangible. This makes it look like the Spurs were just playing that "nice guy" role again.

FO being "Nice guy" is ok. Maybe someday Paces will return the favor. We're all good natured human beings. You give me a favor and I'll remember it and want to return. :)

[Chinook]

Good find, Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557).

Wow, I take back anything positive I said about the picks in this trade. That's such a pitiful return that the Spurs shouldn't have even agreed to do the trade. The Pacers would have to be a top-five team in the NBA in 2023 or the Spurs would have to finish with a better record than both Indiana and Miami in 2026 to be able to swap a second rounder in that draft. And then even if the latter situation happens, the Spurs get the worse of the Indiana and Miami picks. The chances of this trade benefiting the Spurs are microscopic.

And, yeah, if the Spurs miraculously become a top-five team in the NBA in 2023, they'll actually lose on a trade where they were doing the Pacers a favor :lol

If there's not more to the story (like cash [which would be a pretty lame reason, too, tbh] or these details are wrong), there was no reason to complete the trade. Not only do you get nothing in this trade, you set a bad precedent for future trades. Creating a $7 million trade exception for the Pacers should have been worth something tangible. This makes it look like the Spurs were just playing that "nice guy" role again.

I looks to me like the swap is the "incentive" for the Spurs, while the exchange of 2023 picks is how the Spurs met the trade requirements. I don't think the Spurs wanted to do a 2023 swap, since there is a better chance of that conveying in Indy's favor. Most likely no one gets any picks from that. While I wouldn't think $110k would justify the 2026 swap option, I would've preferred that to the 2023 pick. In reality, it should've just been a straight signing, provided there isn't something I can't remotely predict. While it probably won't matter, the Spurs hard-capped themselves to give Indy this TE. It's just odd that they wouldn't get anything better.

Now Portland fans are talking about getting Young in a Collins S&T. Seems ridiculous, but now I legit don't know.

[DPG21920]

I don't think there was a clear window that the Spurs missed that you can frame it that way. We don't know if they're a 40-win team now. They have cap flexibility and are gaining assets, but they'll need guys to develop before they're actually in that pre-Duncan mode. That was a solid playoff team that couldn't win a title. The Spurs aren't there, and they shouldn't even be expected to make the play-in with White's injury history.

We'll see. I agree that we don't know if the FO will make the necessary moves. Not signing Collins was one thing, and everyone knows that I wanted them to prune away some young players to stimulate new growth. That not happening is a bigger red flag than they not getting a big fish with their cap space.

For sure - it’s not apples to apples but was speaking more of the mentality. And I don’t blame them for not landing Collins; they didn’t control the situation and he took less money than SA could offer so seems clear he wanted to stay

[BackHome]

That is just terrible someone needs to be fired for OK that trade that is just plain stupid..................................:madrun

[DPG21920]

The FO did plenty. I've said it elsewhere, the talent on the team is already on the team. Free Agency periods only have bit players and marginal players nowadays; otherwise they get snapped up and SAS ain't a player nowadays. There are a number of young guards and wings on the team already and what they needed was to let the vets go and put shooters around them to open up the floor.

That's exactly what they did, plus potentially found the next overseas contributor in Landale. I know people shit their britches here about Z. Collins, but they could afford to take a healthy swing at a young big talent.

That's it. Instead of tying up loads of cash on maybe-fits and potential chemistry-wreckers, they're giving this team to Keldon, Dejounte, and everyone else. This is exactly what they should have done.

That’s not really what we are talking about though. It was about moving ddr lma rudy Mills when they had more value. That or cashing in on some youth to make a leap around those vets if your plan was to keep them

[DPG21920]

Spurs, as I’ve said, care more about being nice than doing what’s good for the team. It’s gotten them nothing especially considering they do everyone favors, send players where they want and help teams steal our coaches.

But when it comes to trades all you hear is how teams won’t deal with Sa. So again, how is this helping?

[CGD]

At the level we’re talking about (crappy 2nd versus craptacular 2nd) I just do not think it’s that big a deal honestly. I’m a big believer in social/political capital in life generally, and being able to grease the wheels for ongoing relationships. It’s why your able to dump Tiago for essentially nothing to make room for LMA.

[SayTown]

His usage rate in the playoffs was third. He avg 13.9ppg in the playoffs, tiny bit less that Bogdonavic and a 1 point more than Reddish and Gallinari, despite Reddish and Gallinari 7 less minutes.<br>
<br>
PPG isn't everything.

[objective]

After this trade, if they do a deal with Portland and a Zollins swap will end up in the Spurs sending Portland picks

[RC_Drunkford]

That’s not really what we are talking about though. It was about moving ddr lma rudy Mills when they had more value. That or cashing in on some youth to make a leap around those vets if your plan was to keep them

Spurs didn't do that because Pop thought he could make the playoffs. It's that simple

[DPG21920]

Spurs didn't do that because Pop thought he could make the playoffs. It's that simple

He missed the playoffs. Ran it back. Missed playoffs again. That’s why I said we have to question their ability to make obvious moves.

[tbdog]

<br>
<br>
PPG isn't everything.

I understand. But are you saying he is an great rebounder, defender, interior defender, passer or shooter?

[objective]

Funnily enough, Sengun would have been perfect as scoring threat passer with McDermott.

Anyone see that nutmeg pass he dropped?

Would have been so fun to watch.

[The Truth #6]

That Indiana trade. Yikes. This off-season is trending in the wrong direction again.

[Kurgan]

Spurs, as I’ve said, care more about being nice than doing what’s good for the team. It’s gotten them nothing especially considering they do everyone favors, send players where they want and help teams steal our coaches.

But when it comes to trades all you hear is how teams won’t deal with Sa. So again, how is this helping?

It is tiring to see the Spurs FO acting like cucks while every organization shits on them. Even the Knicks humiliated us with the Morris fiasco, costing us Bertans and forcing an extra year into Carrol's contract. Even something as simple as signing a one dimensional scrub like McNugget has to involve us giving up assets. Won't be surprised if the DeRozan trade ends up with us having to forfeit one of our youngsters

[Kurgan]

Funnily enough, Sengun would have been perfect as scoring threat passer with McDermott.

Anyone see that nutmeg pass he dropped?

Would have been so fun to watch.

Wasn't classy enough for our organization apparently

[SpursRussia]

I don't get it. How do you make it a trade to help Pacers get a TE instead of outright signing him with cap space and manage to lose this trade?

[rankingtear]

If were a top 5 team by 2023 we lose this trade. We should hope we are not contending by then so we don't look like idiots and lose a second rounder.

[objective]

Maybe Brian Wright used to share cubicles in Orlando with yet another intern who joined Indiana. Got to hook up those former intern-bros like paying Toronto $5 million and Danny Green

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Good find, Chinook.

Wow, I take back anything positive I said about the picks in this trade. That's such a pitiful return that the Spurs shouldn't have even agreed to do the trade. The Pacers would have to be a top-five team in the NBA in 2023 or the Spurs would have to finish with a better record than both Indiana and Miami in 2026 to be able to swap a second rounder in that draft. And then even if the latter situation happens, the Spurs get the worse of the Indiana and Miami picks. The chances of this trade benefiting the Spurs are microscopic.

And, yeah, if the Spurs miraculously become a top-five team in the NBA in 2023, they'll actually lose on a trade where they were doing the Pacers a favor :lol

If there's not more to the story (like cash [which would be a pretty lame reason, too, tbh] or these details are wrong), there was no reason to complete the trade. Not only do you get nothing in this trade, you set a bad precedent for future trades. Creating a $7 million trade exception for the Pacers should have been worth something tangible. This makes it look like the Spurs were just playing that "nice guy" role again.

This trade is embarrassingly bad, and proves Brian Wright has no business near the transactions for this franchise. Grade A moron. :td

All these coaches and personnel heading elsewhere from the Spurs and we bring in this complete dipshit.

[SpursDynasty85]

If were a top 5 team by 2023 we lose this trade. We should hope we are not contending by then so we don't look like idiots and lose a second rounder.

Top 5 team in the NBA or the West? Even in the West everything would have to align near perfect. No way we become too 5 in the whole league.

[vy65]

Div:lolrsity hire

[slick'81]

:lmao This off season

[Mr. Body]

Div:lolrsity hire

There's that racism this board is famous for.

[Mr. Body]

Div:lolrsity hire

There's that racism this board is famous for.

[rankingtear]

Top 5 team in the NBA or the West? Even in the West everything would have to align near perfect. No way we become too 5 in the whole league.


Brian Wright's latest success story seems to be (based on realgm future picks detailed page) ... Managing to leverage a sign and trade with the Pacers, who wanted the trade exception, into a deal where it's entirely possible the Spurs could send a second rounder without getting any picks in return. Not a high chance, but non-zero.

So since so many want to excuse every move he makes because he's a helpless innocent with zero power, who is to be held responsible for this new mess?

Which elderly sleepy individual is the real culprit here? Who dares keep Wright from getting a guaranteed second rounder in return?

Objective thinks there is a non zero chance and he thinks Wright is an idiot.

[Das Texan]

Fuck this is awful.

Brian Wright again doing idiotic awful things. At what point does he get his ass handed to him and his keycard to Spurs facilities revoked? Fuck.

[vy65]

There's that racism this board is famous for.

How is that racist?

[vy65]

Dude is either unqualified and terrible at his job or unqualified and not doing his job, but got hired by the most socially progressive front office because he posts videos about George Floyd. But yeah, throw out stupid baseless accusations of racism with regard to reality. You’re basically a trump supporter, congrats.

[Mr. Body]

How is that racist?

Dude, how the fuck is that not racist? Go fuck yourself.

[vy65]

Dude, how the fuck is that not racist? Go fuck yourself.

Your assertion, your burden. Given that you can’t articulate the accusation, I’ll take that as “no, it’s actually not racist.”

:cry stop being mean to Brian :cry

[JeffDuncan]

Fuck this is awful.

Brian Wright again doing idiotic awful things. At what point does he get his ass handed to him and his keycard to Spurs facilities revoked? Fuck.


At what point, one asks? Never, of course. He will never be fired for anything involving the basketball team. Competence is not a condition of employment for Spurs upper management. That’s clear enough. It’s been clear for some time now.

[TD 21]

Dude is either unqualified and terrible at his job or unqualified and not doing his job, but got hired by the most socially progressive front office because he posts videos about George Floyd. But yeah, throw out stupid baseless accusations of racism with regard to reality. You’re basically a trump supporter, congrats.

Baseless accusations, indeed.

[vy65]

Baseless accusations, indeed.

This isn't a complete thought.

[spurraider21]

This isn't a complete thought.
sure it is. your claim that he got hired "because he posts videos about George Floy" is baseless

[PrimeMinister]

If the spurs are a top 5 team in 2023- a second round pick swap would be so far down the list of concerns it’s remarkable how much emotional energy some have dedicated to it.

some incredibly sad individuals in this thread

[Uriel]

I think the negative reactions to this deal may be overblown. Almost certainly neither second round pick in 2023 will convey. So the incentive for the Spurs to do the deal was the 2026 swap, which is also unlikely, but at least likelier than either of the 2023 scenarios.

So basically the Spurs gave Indiana a trade exception for a small chance at a 2026 pick swap. That’s still making good use of cap space, because you get something out of nothing.

[Uriel]

Oh and by the way, Indiana is more likely than San Antonio to finish in the top 5 in 2023. While neither scenario is likely, it’s more likely that the Pacers will give us a 2nd round pick in 2023 than we will to them.

[Dejounte]

If the spurs are a top 5 team in 2023- a second round pick swap would be so far down the list of concerns it’s remarkable how much emotional energy some have dedicated to it.

some incredibly sad individuals in this thread

so much hysteria over a 2nd round pick when the 41st pick this year isn’t even bringing much excitement in SL, somehow a late 2nd rounder would

[Chinook]

So in ST fashion, a lot of folks are overreacting since they love dog-piling. That can be true while it's also true that, given what we know currently, this is a bad deal the Spurs didn't need to make. Folks running in here to make it seem like "It's at worst a low second. People are stupid for being mad," are sniffing at its worst. Things don't have to be apocalyptically bad to criticize the FO. The Spurs are a mediocre team doing mediocre things. We're going to be commenting on meh-good and meh-bad things for a long time. Not every criticism of the FO has to be "met" with blind support masked as sarcastic dismissal. What the Spurs did is likely not a good thing. If it doesn't bother you, cool. There are plenty of other active threads right now. But if you're going to be in this conversation, it doesn't help to constantly misrepresent it.

[Dejounte]

Oh lord, you know the state of this board is bad when Chinook is participating in all this sniffing vs hating on FO nonsense. Believe it or not, there's some here who go on the board who don't care about being categorized as either. Y'all can keep yelling at the sky being mad at the other group (and vice versa) and continuing this endless tug of war though.

cue the wall of paragraphs in 3...2...1...

[John B]

Funnily enough, Sengun would have been perfect as scoring threat passer with McDermott.

Anyone see that nutmeg pass he dropped?

Would have been so fun to watch.

I hope I’m wrong but this could be one of the most dumb move, next to not signing Scola. Sengun is already better than Samanic at 19 from what I’m seeing :bang

[Kurgan]

I hope I’m wrong but this could be one of the most dumb move, next to not signing Scola. Sengun is already better than Samanic at 19 from what I’m seeing :bang

Sam seems more interested in getting tattoos than working on his game. 18 year old Sengun already looks better than current Samanic. It's weird that Buford was so obsessed with his physical characteristics that he overlooked his lack of enthusiasm for the game of basketball

[Chinook]

Oh lord, you know the state of this board is bad when Chinook is participating in all this sniffing vs hating on FO nonsense. Believe it or not, there's some here who go on the board who don't care about being categorized as either. Y'all can keep yelling at the sky being mad at the other group (and vice versa) and continuing this endless tug of war though.

cue the wall of paragraphs in 3...2...1...

:rolleyes I don't remember the categories being something anyone chooses for themselves. Who'd voluntarily classify themselves as a sniffer? But the terms have their use. My point is that this division comes from a) people who were looking for a reason to jump on PATFO, including a guy who keeps thinking making a racist criticism is fine if the guy being targeted isn't liked and b) folks who think they have to defend everything the FO does as if happiness has to come from delusion versus introspection. Just as there is seemingly a competition to see who can freak out the most about Forbes coming back, there's a competition to see who can downplay Forbes coming back the most. It's dumb. You don't have to sniff to criticize edgelords.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Sam seems more interested in getting tattoos than working on his game. 18 year old Sengun already looks better than current Samanic. It's weird that Buford was so obsessed with his physical characteristics that he overlooked his lack of enthusiasm for the game of basketball

Why do you say that? Just because he doesn't post pics of himself working out doesn't mean that he is not doing it. He had big improvement from year 1 to year 2. If he has a similar improvement this year he will be the starting 4. Unfortunately, Pop's irrational use of Samanic last year means that we don't know what we really have. I believe Samanic will be this year's Keldon Johnson.

[Seventyniner]

imo the level of discourse on a message board is inversely proportional to the percentage of content that is only about other posters rather than relevant topics.

I don't see a reason for the Spurs to have made this into a S&T unless they got clear, even if minor, compensation. I don't see anything clearly better about the S&T for the Spurs compared to a straight signing.

I also don't know why so many of the players the Spurs have agreed to terms with haven't signed yet. I'm guessing it's because the Spurs have renounced all the FAs except DeRozan, and there's enough cap space to sign McDermott even with DeRozan's cap hold?

[Russ]

so much hysteria over a 2nd round pick when the 41st pick this year isn’t even bringing much excitement in SL, somehow a late 2nd rounder would

A late 2nd round pick can literally be purchashed for cash (a relatively small amount).

[JeffDuncan]

...
I don't see a reason for the Spurs to have made this into a S&T unless they got clear, even if minor, compensation. I don't see anything clearly better about the S&T for the Spurs compared to a straight signing.
...


Right. The Spurs have 50 M cap space, they’re shopping for a shooter, he’s UFA, he looks like a player they could use, so they sign him. Tah dah. Why the heck not? Not nerdy enough, I guess.

[The Truth #6]

For me, part of the frustration/curiosity is trying to understand what they are trying to achieve, writ large or even in what should be a seemingly boring transaction for a somewhat boring player. If he plays well, then I’m stoked. But that’s a different issue from understanding where this franchise is headed.

[Dejounte]

:rolleyes I don't remember the categories being something anyone chooses for themselves. Who'd voluntarily classify themselves as a sniffer? But the terms have their use. My point is that this division comes from a) people who were looking for a reason to jump on PATFO, including a guy who keeps thinking making a racist criticism is fine if the guy being targeted isn't liked and b) folks who think they have to defend everything the FO does as if happiness has to come from delusion versus introspection. Just as there is seemingly a competition to see who can freak out the most about Forbes coming back, there's a competition to see who can downplay Forbes coming back the most. It's dumb. You don't have to sniff to criticize edgelords.

No, no one chooses those categories for themselves, and that's my point. You've got two groups insistent on drawing a line in the sand and throwing rocks at anyone who isn't on their respective side. You did the same in your post when you said, "sniffing at its worst". Like no, it's not sniffing at its worst. People disliking the Forbes signing and then feeling neutral about a late second round pick is proof of that. Yes, there are people who take an extreme stance on either side. But there are people who are "politically homeless" and can give their input exclusively on a single deal and then feel another way about another. People who defend a trade/ feel neutral about a trade doesn't mean they're aligning themselves consistently on that point of view for all trades, unless your name is Atl Spur.

[Chinook]

imo the level of discourse on a message board is inversely proportional to the percentage of content that is only about other posters rather than relevant topics.

I don't see a reason for the Spurs to have made this into a S&T unless they got clear, even if minor, compensation. I don't see anything clearly better about the S&T for the Spurs compared to a straight signing.

I also don't know why so many of the players the Spurs have agreed to terms with haven't signed yet. I'm guessing it's because the Spurs have renounced all the FAs except DeRozan, and there's enough cap space to sign McDermott even with DeRozan's cap hold?

The Spurs don't need to worry about DeRozan's hold (and indeed seem to have already renounced it), but they do need to keep about $27 Million free to give DMDR the contract Chicago agreed to. That's probably going to mean SOB and Forbes can't be signed yet. I'm pretty sure the Spurs are at least okay with giving those guys the room exception, though Forbes might be better more than that for some reason. Collins' signing is also unofficial, and it's not clear that SA isn't saving that signing to be part of the DeRozan deal. McDermott is on the books already, and Mills, Gay and Lyles are officially off the books after their signings. Locking in DeRozan at the necessary cap number, the Spurs have about $18 Million in space. About a million will go to Wieskamp is he signs a long-term deal. If he signs a two-way or two-year min deal, then he doesn't count against the cap.

So it's possible that SA is shopping that remaining cap space around looking for a taker and/or working a bigger deal. It's also possible that some of the assumptions I made in here to maximize cap space aren't true and SA doesn't have as much available. It might end up completely going away even if Collins is signed, Forbes makes to much for the RE and Wieskamp and/or KBD gets a reasonable deal. I know RGMers want Young in Portland for Collins. We'll see. But it's possible SA still has something up their sleeve, or is trying to put something there. That's more likely than anything else at this point, seeing as Chicago probably wants the deal done now.

EDIT to put in Capulator link:

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=12072334786112baa1a5f00192479123

[pad300]

I hope I’m wrong but this could be one of the most dumb move, next to not signing Scola. Sengun is already better than Samanic at 19 from what I’m seeing :bang

The issue is not Samanich. The issue is that Sengun was clearly a special prospect, and we passed on selecting him for Primo (who looks good, but is not an obviously special prospect).

[CGD]

FYI, for what it’s worth shams’ capulator tool has the deal at $13,750,000 for each of the three years, all guaranteed.

[Chinook]

FYI, for what it’s worth shams’ capulator tool has the deal at $13,750,000 for each of the three years, all guaranteed.

Deeks also still has Jeffries on the team and is for some reason still not showing White as having signed an extension last year. He usually is right with his info, but McDermott's deal could also just be a placeholder in the system. He literally just updated it this afternoon.

But definitely, it doesn't make sense to assume anything but the team being full guaranteed, and Spurs fans should hope it is.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Dude, how the fuck is that not racist? Go fuck yourself.

I know someone, a minority at that, who was in the Spurs FO and recently left for another NBA team. He himself calls Wright a diversity hire and said he's the dumbest front office person the Spurs have had since he started working there.

[Chinook]

I know someone, a minority at that, who was in the Spurs FO and recently left for another NBA team. He himself calls Wright a diversity hire and said he's the dumbest front office person the Spurs have had since he started working there.

^ A classic example of how not to defend against an allegation of racism.

[Mr. Body]

I know someone, a minority at that, who was in the Spurs FO and recently left for another NBA team. He himself calls Wright a diversity hire and said he's the dumbest front office person the Spurs have had since he started working there.

Wow, bro, you're really giving Aggies a bad name.

[JeffDuncan]

Deeks also still has Jeffries on the team and is for some reason still not showing White as having signed an extension last year. He usually is right with his info, but McDermott's deal could also just be a placeholder in the system. ...


Let me run this by you, as long as everyone is kicking rumors around. When the McDermott deal became S&T with the way it worked out, the Pacers got a trade exception. Any chance of that being a prelude to a 3-team deal involving the Spurs and somebody else, with the Pacers facilitating? Thoughts? Even worth discussing?

[Chinook]

Let me run this by you, as long as everyone is kicking rumors around. When the McDermott deal became S&T with the way it worked out, the Pacers got a trade exception. Any chance of that being a prelude to a 3-team deal involving the Spurs and somebody else, with the Pacers facilitating? Thoughts? Even worth discussing?

Nah. The trade has been officially called in already. So while the Pacers can use the TE to make another trade, the McDermott deal is done as far as the Spurs are concerned.

[JeffDuncan]

Nah. The trade has been officially called in already. So while the Pacers can use the TE to make another trade, the McDermott deal is done as far as the Spurs are concerned.


Ok, got it, McDermott is done. But maybe something on that “another trade” idea?

Hypothetical: the Spurs are looking to do a deal with team X for player Y. But something about it prevents the Spurs and team X from doing the deal themselves. A third team will have to be involved, and multiple players.

So instead of just signing McDermott, the Spurs work with the Pacers on an S&T in which the Pacers get that TE. They do that to put the Pacers in position to assist on the deal between the Spurs and team X. The deal between the Spurs and team X can then proceed, for player Y, with some other player going to the Pacers, paid for with that TE.

Too far fetched? I have no names to suggest for team X and player Y.

The fiddly stuff with 2nd round picks - maybe they’ll get ours, maybe we’ll get theirs - doesn’t look satisfying as a reason for the Spurs to involve the Pacers in what could have been a direct signing of a UFA. So maybe the TE was the point? Or it could be my imagination wandering too far afield.

[ismael-robert]

Why does it have to benefit spurs this year and not be something that pacers remember next year and scratch our backs then

[timvp]

FYI, for what it’s worth shams’ capulator tool has the deal at $13,750,000 for each of the three years, all guaranteed.

Spotrac has that too so it's safe to say that's accurate. Given $42 million was reported, that's at least a pretty good outcome. $41.25M flat with no raises? That helps his trade value after this season.

Don't love the McDermott signing but that makes it a tiny bit more palatable.

[DPG21920]

Spotrac has that too so it's safe to say that's accurate. Given $42 million was reported, that's at least a pretty good outcome. $41.25M flat with no raises? That helps his trade value after this season.

Don't love the McDermott signing but that makes it a tiny bit more palatable.

I just don’t see how he was worth 3 full years at that price. He’s a MLE player for 3 years imo. 2 years at 14m is more than MLE for 3 years so don’t get how he isn’t a team option year 3

[duncan2150]

I just don’t see how he was worth 3 full years at that price. He’s a MLE player for 3 years imo. 2 years at 14m is more than MLE for 3 years so don’t get how he isn’t a team option year 3


I don't think the price is unfair, there is not a big gap between the MLE and his 13.75 millions. It's more paying him three years that could be too much for the future flexibility but imo that's his value.

I prefer his contract to the Duncan Robinson one, if we talk about the same kind of player.

[Chinook]

I just don’t see how he was worth 3 full years at that price. He’s a MLE player for 3 years imo. 2 years at 14m is more than MLE for 3 years so don’t get how he isn’t a team option year 3

I don't think describing him as an MLE player is fair. Teams likely wanted him for the MLE, but his fellow shooters have been getting paid recently. McD is getting paid less than Robinson and Bertans, and he outplayed both guys last year. I don't know that teams who could would've signed him for that much, but I do think there are teams who will give an asset to turn bad money into his contract, maybe enough an expiring.

[Russ]

McDermott has underachieved thus far. He has nice upside.

Once Pop says "Run the picket fence," he'll light up like a Christmas tree.

[DPG21920]

I don't think describing him as an MLE player is fair. Teams likely wanted him for the MLE, but his fellow shooters have been getting paid recently. McD is getting paid less than Robinson and Bertans, and he outplayed both guys last year. I don't know that teams who could would've signed him for that much, but I do think there are teams who will give an asset to turn bad money into his contract, maybe enough an expiring.

To be a little more clear; I’m more saying for SA in their situation he’s definitely no more than a MLE player. I do think on the open market he’s closer to mle too than 14M but Sa should have had a more firm ceiling for players like him.

[Chinook]

To be a little more clear; I’m more saying for SA in their situation he’s definitely no more than a MLE player. I do think on the open market he’s closer to mle too than 14M but Sa should have had a more firm ceiling for players like him.

They can afford to pay for the guys they want. I certainly get being skeptical of him. But I don't a lot of good shooters with size that went for less.

[DPG21920]

They can afford to pay for the guys they want. I certainly get being skeptical of him. But I don't a lot of good shooters with size that went for less.

Size is fine but he sucks on defense and while I understand wanting shooting to help youth he’s 29 and doesn’t make sense imo especially for 3 years unless he was a steal and he wasn’t. Just my 2c

[Chinook]

Size is fine but he sucks on defense and while I understand wanting shooting to help youth he’s 29 and doesn’t make sense imo especially for 3 years unless he was a steal and he wasn’t. Just my 2c

If he were a slasher, then his age would bother me. This is basically his prime, though. The bigger he is, the easier it'll be to hide him on defense. If the Spurs suck in that regard next year, it's going to be because Johnson still sucks on that end. Unlike Doug, Keldon doesn't do enough on offense to justify being a bad defender, and he can't remain in the SL is he doesn't figure that out.

[JeffDuncan]

McDermott is a good signing. By the career stats, he’s a better shooter than Patty, for both 2s and 3s. Shooters are expensive now.

People worry about his defense, but look at some players the Spurs are replacing. DDR, Lyles, Patty. Is he going to make the defense worse? Doubt it. Everything is relative. Further, players who shoot that well, and also defend well, are in extremely high demand, and extremely expensive.

McDermott isn’t the superstar the Spurs need. Yeah, okay. So what?

For how the McDermott S&T happened, my latest and greatest theory. Go back to when the Spurs were shopping for a shooter, with McD on their list. He was UFA so the Spurs were just looking at a simple signing, at first.

The Spurs were also thinking about how they’ll pare down to the final roster. It’s inevitable they’ll need to move somebody out, somehow. But they won’t be able to take another player at that time. No final roster decisions have been made yet, of course.

The Spurs contacted the Pacers to check on McD’s character. Good teammate, good citizen, and all that. We know the Spurs check character.

During the conversation, the Spurs also mentioned about paring down to their final roster. They asked if the Pacers would be interested in players the Spurs might cut.

The Pacers replied, yes, they’d be interested in player X if he gets cut. But there’s a problem. What about cap space to take player X when they can’t send a player to the Spurs?

But it’s noted that if the Spurs’ signing of McDermott as a UFA is changed to an S&T between the Spurs and Pacers, the Pacers can gain a $7.3 M trade exception. There’s the ability for the Pacers to take player X, when - and if - the Spurs make a final decision to move him out.

So they do it that way. They contact McDermott and he’s fine with it.

Thus, that Pacers’ TE that the Spurs helped the Pacers create, even tho the Spurs didn’t have to help the Pacers do that, provides a prearranged landing spot for a Spurs player X, when and if he doesn’t make the final Spurs roster. (And if nothing else develops in the meantime.)

So, under this theory, who is that Spurs player X? Impossible to say.

It’s iffy he’ll be on the final roster, but the way this offseason is going, it’s hard to tell what the Spurs are looking at.

The Pacers are interested in him. But for some reason unknown.

His contract price is under 7.3 M. But that’s most of the Spurs roster.

The Spurs care enough about him they don’t want to just leave him on his own, for finding another situation. But the Spurs are nice guys.

There could even be more than one possibility. So, hm.

[objective]

McDermott is a good signing. By the career stats, he’s a better shooter than Patty, for both 2s and 3s. Shooters are expensive now.

People worry about his defense, but look at some players the Spurs are replacing. DDR, Lyles, Patty. Is he going to make the defense worse? Doubt it. Everything is relative. Further, players who shoot that well, and also defend well, are in extremely high demand, and extremely expensive.

McDermott isn’t the superstar the Spurs need. Yeah, okay. So what?

For how the McDermott S&T happened, my latest and greatest theory. Go back to when the Spurs were shopping for a shooter, with McD on their list. He was UFA so the Spurs were just looking at a simple signing, at first.

The Spurs were also thinking about how they’ll pare down to the final roster. It’s inevitable they’ll need to move somebody out, somehow. But they won’t be able to take another player at that time. No final roster decisions have been made yet, of course.

The Spurs contacted the Pacers to check on McD’s character. Good teammate, good citizen, and all that. We know the Spurs check character.

During the conversation, the Spurs also mentioned about paring down to their final roster. They asked if the Pacers would be interested in players the Spurs might cut.

The Pacers replied, yes, they’d be interested in player X if he gets cut. But there’s a problem. What about cap space to take player X when they can’t send a player to the Spurs?

But it’s noted that if the Spurs’ signing of McDermott as a UFA is changed to an S&T between the Spurs and Pacers, the Pacers can gain a $7.3 M trade exception. There’s the ability for the Pacers to take player X, when - and if - the Spurs make a final decision to move him out.

So they do it that way. They contact McDermott and he’s fine with it.

Thus, that Pacers’ TE that the Spurs helped the Pacers create, even tho the Spurs didn’t have to help the Pacers do that, provides a prearranged landing spot for a Spurs player X, when and if he doesn’t make the final Spurs roster. (And if nothing else develops in the meantime.)

So, under this theory, who is that Spurs player X? Impossible to say.

It’s iffy he’ll be on the final roster, but the way this offseason is going, it’s hard to tell what the Spurs are looking at.

The Pacers are interested in him. But for some reason unknown.

His contract price is under 7.3 M. But that’s most of the Spurs roster.

The Spurs care enough about him they don’t want to just leave him on his own, for finding another situation. But the Spurs are nice guys.

There could even be more than one possibility. So, hm.

You may end up being correct but I am very doubtful.

Indiana is at 15 players once the Craig signing is official and they complete the Jackson trade and sign him as a draft pick. And then they'll be VERY close to the tax. They might be in it already if some bonuses hit. Like close enough that they might go into it even by taking in someone cheap.

I think they'll just save it for the offseas

[Drom John]

I don't think describing him as an MLE player is fair. Teams likely wanted him for the MLE, but his fellow shooters have been getting paid recently. McD is getting paid less than Robinson and Bertans, and he outplayed both guys last year. I don't know that teams who could would've signed him for that much, but I do think there are teams who will give an asset to turn bad money into his contract, maybe enough an expiring.

FiveThirtyEight Raptor 2020/2021 WAR

96) Jarrett Allen, Chris Boucher, DeMar DeRozan, Duncan Robinson, Domantas Sabonis, Christian Wood

116) Davis Bertans, Miles Bridges, Malcolm Brogdon, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, De'Anthony Melton

229) Solomon Hill, Kenyon Martin Jr., Doug McDermott

[KingKev]

Can we all agree McLovin will be starting at the 3 this year?

[ismael-robert]

Can we all agree that's pointless n we'll see multiple starting lineups

[John B]

I rather see him starting for the designated 3 pt guy than Forbes. Yes. The fast paced motion offense needs a knockdown shooter to space the floor. And he’s that guy. I think he plays stretch 4 though, with Keldon playing the 3. I think Keldon has been slimming down to be more agile defending faster SF, and becoming a better lockdown defender, ala Kawhi, Bruce, Sean. Better him guarding the 3 than McDermont and not risk losing his guy, and Poeltl to leave his big man for an easy dunk.

[MultiTroll]

While evisceration took place swiftly and properly performed by high BBIQ posters, take a look back at some of these hot takes: :rollin


The part about selling capspace for assets that nobody talks about is how it poisons the locker room. The Spurs, even if they end up tanking out next season, want to keep a winning culture, and bringing e.g. Love on the team with his massive salary for a couple picks would absolutely be a hit to everyone's morale.

And McD will be easily moved if need be - he's a SF/PF shooter in the modern NBA, making $14M. Chump change considering the modern cap and luxury thresholds. This is a classic case of Spurstalk jumping the gun to shit on the FO any chance they can. Go back to Jakob's signing thread if you want a prime example :lol I'll never get over that one. If the same people who were saying Jak was an overpay, are saying McD is one, I'm dandy tbh :lol


That's a good signing for the Spurs. He's solid and a great shooter. Didn't think he'd command that much but Duncan Robinson just got $90M and the two guys are pretty similar tbqh.


More than fine with his, especially when Duncan Robinson gets 90m for five years and Berta s for his ridiculous contract. Inky three years for a very who can stretch the floor and won't kill any of the budget that will need to be used on the young players in the coming years. A value, shrewd pick up instead of giving Markkanen more than 20 a year.

Shooting is exactly what we need and here we go.


Why are people so stupid? This is precisely for the future. They get a shooter who can item up the floor for the guards, who is a professional in every way, who will not kill the cap when we no longer need him and need to pay the younger players.

This signing is literally because we value our younger players.


To me, this signing really signals rebuild.

He's making 14 a year, which is actually pretty reasonable by today's NBA standards.

He's a decent player who will fit the program and make fans happy. We need shooting, and we need forwards. He fits that bill.

[Sugus]

While evisceration took place swiftly and properly performed by high BBIQ posters, take a look back at some of these hot takes: :rollin

The fuck did you quote me for? Nothing I said (and tbh, some of the other comments) was wrong. McD is still a high-end role player, not an albatross contract, can be moved if need be (his recent injury makes it a tad harder I guess, but certainly not on negative asset territory yet).

I would've expected after all the bitching and moaning over 50 Millz' contract, that you would've learned what an actual bad deal was, tbh.

[Dex]

The fuck did you quote me for? Nothing I said (and tbh, some of the other comments) was wrong. McD is still a high-end role player, not an albatross contract, can be moved if need be (his recent injury makes it a tad harder I guess, but certainly not on negative asset territory yet).

I would've expected after all the bitching and moaning over 50 Millz' contract, that you would've learned what an actual bad deal was, tbh.

Dude really took time out of his day to try to make a point that literally no one cares about.

[MultiTroll]

:lol Butthurt Brigade dings in.

[BacktoBasics]

:lol Butthurt Brigade dings in.

Butthurt? You literally made no point at all and ended up looking stupid. Ducks level stupid.

[exstatic]

The fuck did you quote me for? Nothing I said (and tbh, some of the other comments) was wrong. McD is still a high-end role player, not an albatross contract, can be moved if need be (his recent injury makes it a tad harder I guess, but certainly not on negative asset territory yet).

I would've expected after all the bitching and moaning over 50 Millz' contract, that you would've learned what an actual bad deal was, tbh.

Right? John Wall and Russell Westbrook, who's games have both gone over a cliff, were moved last summer on deals in the $45-50M range. McD wasn't a great fit here, but would fit nicely on a contender with a gravity player. We won't have to include any assets, and may get back a decent ending contract.

[SAGirl]

:lol Butthurt Brigade dings in.
:rollin
I miss this kind of funny posts. Theres definitely guys that are too sensitive and touchy here. There’s a few that come out guns blazing, hostile like its a personal offense.

I will admit, I didn’t like him for the amount he signed. Luckily Keldon improved his shooting to an incredible extent making this guy completely redundant and useless. When he was signed, shooting was my main concern for the team, and I liked Dougie McD as a bench piece (not to start)… The Bryn Forbes signing was the one I really hated.

[poopbox]

should be able to trade him easy enough. If we go into the season with him still on the team then we will already be in trouble.

[DPG21920]

I hate this FO and I hate this signing…they are so, so lost. Now, if they don’t get Collins this off season is crap.

Just run of the mill, no vision or direction, crap.

Lol - they recovered overall nicely, but Doug was an obvious mistake. hopefully they can dump him this off season

[DPG21920]

You don’t pay guys like him for teams like SA, I’m sorry. He’s not young, has no upside and we aren’t competing for anything. It’s just valuing character and wanting to be “competitive” vs truly embracing a rebuild. It’s silly middle of the road stuff even if he’s a good player.

It’s not that complicated PATFO. Spurs dont need players that aren’t difference makers and/or that dont fit the timeline of growing w/the youth. Value/Fit aside, they needed a plan. They are stuck in neutral - not truly competing or rebuilding

trade deadline made things a bit more clear and moving DeRozan soon after this signing.

[DPG21920]

Why are people so stupid? This is precisely for the future. They get a shooter who can item up the floor for the guards, who is a professional in every way, who will not kill the cap when we no longer need him and need to pay the younger players.

This signing is literally because we value our younger players.

CROFL

[timvp]

Yeah, the McDermott signing ended up worse than I thought. I didn't like the signing to begin with but his defense ended up being almost Forbesian. Definitely the bottom tier defender the advanced stats suggested he'd be.

[DPG21920]

Please Mr Wright unload this man in a sign and trade for Lavine and I will make sure SpursTwitter respects your name from here on out

[Robz4000]

Please Mr Wright unload this man in a sign and trade for Lavine and I will make sure SpursTwitter respects your name from here on out


Unfortunately he has too much character to be traded.

[mystargtr34]

I like McDermott as a bench guy at 8 or 9 in the rotation. His floor spacing has value. Especially when he’s going up against other bench guys who won’t kill him on defense. But not sure you pay $14m a year for that type of floor spacing.

[GAustex]

Watching the playoffs right now and I just do not see a place for Dougie McNoD in games like these

[jjspur]

I could see McNugget being traded to a contender like Philly, Golden State or Milwaukee. He could be really useful on the 2nd team. He's just won't make a difference on a middling team or non contender especially with his mediocre to bad defense. Maybe Brian Wright can pull off another good trade this summer.

[KingKev]

I think I’ve been McDougall’ biggest hater since day one. It won’t be easy to straight salary dump him this offseason as any teams who could outright absorb him wouldn’t be interested.

Still hope he can be used in a larger trade or we attach a few SRPs and take back a shorter contract which would probably be an equally useless player.

[DPG21920]

You don’t pay guys like him for teams like SA, I’m sorry. He’s not young, has no upside and we aren’t competing for anything. It’s just valuing character and wanting to be “competitive” vs truly embracing a rebuild. It’s silly middle of the road stuff even if he’s a good player.

It’s not that complicated PATFO. Spurs dont need players that aren’t difference makers and/or that dont fit the timeline of growing w/the youth. Value/Fit aside, they needed a plan. They are stuck in neutral - not truly competing or rebuilding

CROFL who on earth could have seen SA both: A) wanting to trade Doug and B) not being able to do so because hes a negative value player

[DPG21920]

This is stupid, no offense. Value contracts? Spurs missed the playoffs two years in a row and couldn’t flip any of their value deals to help improve their chances at the playoffs or accelerate their future :lol. So how are they value contracts?

You’re lying with the mindset; plenty of us would have been plenty happy with tons of scenarios. If they traded back and got value and took Primo. A OK. If they took a projected lottery talent instead of reaching? A OK.

If in FA they didn’t sign a 29 year old player with poor defense to a 3 year deal on a rebuilding team before having other pieces in place that THEY CONTROL to make it make sense? A OK

If they would have taken on a bad deal and gotten draft picks? A OK. If they would have signed Dieng for a one year deal instead of taking a massive risk on an injured mediocre Zach Collins? A OK.

So no, you’re wrong. It’s not ST. It’s the FO that has been really really poor, built a team that couldn’t make the playoffs, ran that same team back and missed the playoffs, didn’t sell any vets when they had the chance for assets, got a get out of jail free card in a lottery pick and tons of cap space and now find themselves in an equal or worse position with regards to playoffs or rebuild despite having the assets.

To the FO credit, the really started doing much of what a few of us have been asking them to do - so there is hope!

[MultiTroll]

CROFL who on earth could have seen SA both: A) wanting to trade Doug and B) not being able to do so because hes a negative value player
30 other teams and front offices? :lol

but but but
1569919539001069569

https://twitter.com/i/status/1569919539001069569 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1569919539001069569)

[KingKev]

McDermott is a good signing. By the career stats, he’s a better shooter than Patty, for both 2s and 3s. Shooters are expensive now.

People worry about his defense, but look at some players the Spurs are replacing. DDR, Lyles, Patty. Is he going to make the defense worse? Doubt it. Everything is relative. Further, players who shoot that well, and also defend well, are in extremely high demand, and extremely expensive.

McDermott isn’t the superstar the Spurs need. Yeah, okay. So what?

For how the McDermott S&T happened, my latest and greatest theory. Go back to when the Spurs were shopping for a shooter, with McD on their list. He was UFA so the Spurs were just looking at a simple signing, at first.

The Spurs were also thinking about how they’ll pare down to the final roster. It’s inevitable they’ll need to move somebody out, somehow. But they won’t be able to take another player at that time. No final roster decisions have been made yet, of course.

The Spurs contacted the Pacers to check on McD’s character. Good teammate, good citizen, and all that. We know the Spurs check character.

During the conversation, the Spurs also mentioned about paring down to their final roster. They asked if the Pacers would be interested in players the Spurs might cut.

The Pacers replied, yes, they’d be interested in player X if he gets cut. But there’s a problem. What about cap space to take player X when they can’t send a player to the Spurs?

But it’s noted that if the Spurs’ signing of McDermott as a UFA is changed to an S&T between the Spurs and Pacers, the Pacers can gain a $7.3 M trade exception. There’s the ability for the Pacers to take player X, when - and if - the Spurs make a final decision to move him out.

So they do it that way. They contact McDermott and he’s fine with it.

Thus, that Pacers’ TE that the Spurs helped the Pacers create, even tho the Spurs didn’t have to help the Pacers do that, provides a prearranged landing spot for a Spurs player X, when and if he doesn’t make the final Spurs roster. (And if nothing else develops in the meantime.)

So, under this theory, who is that Spurs player X? Impossible to say.

It’s iffy he’ll be on the final roster, but the way this offseason is going, it’s hard to tell what the Spurs are looking at.

The Pacers are interested in him. But for some reason unknown.

His contract price is under 7.3 M. But that’s most of the Spurs roster.

The Spurs care enough about him they don’t want to just leave him on his own, for finding another situation. But the Spurs are nice guys.

There could even be more than one possibility. So, hm.


Lonnie in great company at 247 and two SpursTalk favorites down there in the pit as well.


More than fine with his, especially when Duncan Robinson gets 90m for five years and Berta s for his ridiculous contract. Inky three years for a very who can stretch the floor and won't kill any of the budget that will need to be used on the young players in the coming years. A value, shrewd pick up instead of giving Markkanen more than 20 a year.

Shooting is exactly what we need and here we go.

Two of Spurstalk’s finest…

[objective]

McDermott probably goes down like Mills and Marco, two over 30 overpays who never get traded because at their salary they were negative assets. But at least they could 'teach the Spurs way', which of course was always nonsense as a concept with those two. What can McDermott teach the young guys about the Spurs way?

[KingKev]

McDermott probably goes down like Mills and Marco, two over 30 overpays who never get traded because at their salary they were negative assets. But at least they could 'teach the Spurs way', which of course was always nonsense as a concept with those two. What can McDermott teach the young guys about the Spurs way?

How to get overpaid. Play the politics and you will reap the rewards.

[J_Paco]

Teams overvalue three - point shooting from one - dimensional players like McDermott, Bertans and Duncan Robinson. The end.

[KingKev]

Teams overvalue three - point shooting from one - dimensional players like McDermott, Bertans and Duncan Robinson. The end.

Lol we got two of those wrong. Over valued McD and under valued Bertans.

[Dex]

Lol we got two of those wrong. Over valued McD and under valued Bertans.

Jury is still out on Bertans. Obviously letting him walk for nothing just to get cucked by Marcus Morris sucked...BUT he got his big contract and hasn't really done much to really write home about since. Good for some threes in garbage time but has consistently found himself getting stuck on the end of the bench.

He's the Mavericks problem now with $33M due over the next two seasons....that makes McDougle's contract seem not as bad (though it still is)

[MultiTroll]

What can McDermott teach the young guys about the Spurs way?
How to continually fleece drunk Grandpa?

[Mr. Body]

LMAO @ the usual dipshits pissing their knickers about this contract. The team is still way under cap and it's not a big deal, you dunces. Literally has no impact on anything. :lol

[J_Paco]

Lol we got two of those wrong. Over valued McD and under valued Bertans.

Davis is still weak, can't rebound or defend either the 3 or 4 consistently, so basically not "undervalued."

Wizards signed him to a "mammoth" deal (for an one - dimensional, defensive liability) then had "buyers remorse"(like you claim the Spurs do with McDermott) and traded him for oft - injured Porzingis.

[KingKev]

Davis is still weak, can't rebound or defend either the 3 or 4 consistently, so basically not "undervalued."

Wizards signed him to a "mammoth" deal (for an one - dimensional, defensive liability) then had "buyers remorse"(like you claim the Spurs do with McDermott) and traded him for oft - injured Porzingis.

I’m saying we under valued him by giving him away for nothing.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Jury is still out on Bertans. Obviously letting him walk for nothing just to get cucked by Marcus Morris sucked...BUT he got his big contract and hasn't really done much to really write home about since. Good for some threes in garbage time but has consistently found himself getting stuck on the end of the bench.

He's the Mavericks problem now with $33M due over the next two seasons....that makes McDougle's contract seem not as bad (though it still is)

Bertans wasn’t a step up from McNugget. Equal in their flaws, IMO. Doug gets the slight nod for having the most fingers.

[Dex]

Bertans wasn’t a step up from McNugget. Equal in their flaws, IMO. Doug gets the slight nod for having the most fingers.

:lmao

[Atl Spur]

I’m saying we under valued him by giving him away for nothing.

Context……..but you’re back at it I see:) Good to have you back!

[KingKev]

Context……..but you’re back at it I see:) Good to have you back!

Here is some context: they originally used the MLE on DeMarre Carroll whom they bought out for 99 cents on the dollar 6 months later. When Morris became available they restructured Carroll to 3yrs, 21mm so they could give Morris the MLE. In order to facilitate that Bertans had to be dumped for a TPE.

Morris absolutely fked us but PATFO holds accountability here sacrificing a young trade chip in Bertans and throwing 21mm away on Carroll, someone who basically never played for the team. If they didn’t offer a washed Carroll the MLE in the first place we could have retained Bertans and used him as a trade chip or let him walk a year later if someone was willing to overpay.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Here is some context: they originally used the MLE on DeMarre Carroll whom they bought out for 99 cents on the dollar 6 months later. When Morris became available they restructured Carroll to 3yrs, 21mm so they could give Morris the MLE. In order to facilitate that Bertans had to be dumped for a TPE.

Morris absolutely fked us but PATFO holds accountability here sacrificing a young trade chip in Bertans and throwing 21mm away on Carroll, someone who basically never played for the team. If they didn’t offer a washed Carroll the MLE in the first place we could have retained Bertans and used him as a trade chip or let him walk a year later if someone was willing to overpay.

Even the biggest apologists can't really argue that the Carroll signing, as well as McNugs, weren't the FO's best moves. McDermott, 3/10. Carroll, minus 10 out of 10.

[KingKev]

Even the biggest apologists can't really argue that the Carroll signing, as well as McNugs, weren't the FO's best moves. McDermott, 3/10. Carroll, minus 10 out of 10.

I’m most intrigued about Carroll and what went wrong. The guy was on the fking moon when he got an extra year to rework his deal, so damn thankful on twitter praising PATFO…. Even he knew he was done. He wasn’t even good enough to get burn at the 3/4 for 10 mins a night…. positions we were fking desperate at.

[J_Paco]

I’m saying we under valued him by giving him away for nothing.

They gave him away under the impression that an upgrade was coming in. Unfortunately, the Morris twins are snakes and reneged on the deal. Shit happens.

[Chinook]

How folks simultaneously lambast the Spurs for cutting bait from Bertans and signing McDermott astounds me. I wish the Spurs could've gotten some good asset for Davis, sure. And the Carroll deal was definitely a hindsight mistake. But:

A) If Carroll hadn't fallen off, he and Morris were EXACTLY the kind of players folks complained about the Spurs not having for years. Fans acting like the deal made no sense now are likely the same fans who wanted to trade two firsts for Stanley Johnson or Taurean (fucking) Prince in 2019. The Spurs were not perfect (they burned one of those two firsts on Samanic FFS), but they didn't do that bad of a job given their limited information. I wish they could've predicted the future, but Carroll played well and wasn't old enough to expect him to drop off completely.

B) They traded away Bertans and then signed a comparable player for less money later. In the same way that Carroll was a surprise bust for the Spurs, Bertans was a massive bust for Washington after his contract year. The Spurs did good by just not paying that. To put it into perspective: The Spurs spent less money on McDermott, Carroll and Lyles than the Wizards committed to Bertans. Washington did a really good job getting out of that contract. But that's not a situation the Spurs want a do-over for.

[KingKev]

How folks simultaneously lambast the Spurs for cutting bait from Bertans and signing McDermott astounds me. I wish the Spurs could've gotten some good asset for Davis, sure. And the Carroll deal was definitely a hindsight mistake. But:

A) If Carroll hadn't fallen off, he and Morris were EXACTLY the kind of players folks complained about the Spurs not having for years. Fans acting like the deal made no sense now are likely the same fans who wanted to trade two firsts for Stanley Johnson or Taurean (fucking) Prince in 2019. The Spurs were not perfect (they burned one of those two firsts on Samanic FFS), but they didn't do that bad of a job given their limited information. I wish they could've predicted the future, but Carroll played well and wasn't old enough to expect him to drop off completely.

B) They traded away Bertans and then signed a comparable player for less money later. In the same way that Carroll was a surprise bust for the Spurs, Bertans was a massive bust for Washington after his contract year. The Spurs did good by just not paying that. To put it into perspective: The Spurs spent less money on McDermott, Carroll and Lyles than the Wizards committed to Bertans. Washington did a really good job getting out of that contract. But that's not a situation the Spurs want a do-over for.

So I agree Marcus Morris actually gave that team solid playoff hopes he was the perfect player to slide between LMA and DDR. The Carroll signing being hindsight is arguable. It’s still puzzling he was never played and subsequently bought out so soon.

We can only assume he was washed but we didn’t even give him any minutes when he played a position of desperate need. I can’t give PATFO a pass for signing and buying out a player within months, especially when that contract had further negative implications on a young player with some upside who had value. It’s not always hindsight for the experts making the decisions at the time... it’s that they made a bad decision.

[GAustex]

Carroll played a tiny bit
He could barely run
He could not jump
He fouled folks
He moved like a tin man
It was pathetic signing
I think the Spurs finally have paid that stiff off
That whole saga was pop at his worst

[spurraider21]

How folks simultaneously lambast the Spurs for cutting bait from Bertans and signing McDermott astounds me. I wish the Spurs could've gotten some good asset for Davis, sure. And the Carroll deal was definitely a hindsight mistake. But:

A) If Carroll hadn't fallen off, he and Morris were EXACTLY the kind of players folks complained about the Spurs not having for years. Fans acting like the deal made no sense now are likely the same fans who wanted to trade two firsts for Stanley Johnson or Taurean (fucking) Prince in 2019. The Spurs were not perfect (they burned one of those two firsts on Samanic FFS), but they didn't do that bad of a job given their limited information. I wish they could've predicted the future, but Carroll played well and wasn't old enough to expect him to drop off completely.

B) They traded away Bertans and then signed a comparable player for less money later. In the same way that Carroll was a surprise bust for the Spurs, Bertans was a massive bust for Washington after his contract year. The Spurs did good by just not paying that. To put it into perspective: The Spurs spent less money on McDermott, Carroll and Lyles than the Wizards committed to Bertans. Washington did a really good job getting out of that contract. But that's not a situation the Spurs want a do-over for.
wasnt carroll a panic signing? or didnt they suddenly change his agreed upon contract to give him more money/years at the time? vaguely recall something like that.

and yes, they could have gotten more for bertans than a trade exception :lol

[Chinook]

wasnt carroll a panic signing? or didnt they suddenly change his agreed upon contract to give him more money/years at the time? vaguely recall something like that.

They gave him slightly more money and stretched it out over there years instead of the two they had originally planned on in order to meet the sign-and-trade criteria. It basically amounted to that tiny bit that was guaranteed in his last year though.


and yes, they could have gotten more for bertans than a trade exception :lol

I think this is hindsight. The guy didn't have that great of a market. Certainly there were people like DAF who loved him. He actually had good numbers that last year. But he was an old player for his level of NBA experience, and he was limited with bad knees. The Wizards took Bertans without sending money back. That's not free. At most, I'd say we were talking about a second-round pick -- likely the one the team ended up getting last summer anyway. If he somehow had the same contract year, with the team still wanting to trade him, maybe he could've gotten a first. But he could've also not played much and left for nothing anyway.

I think it's cool to wish they had been psychic and found a way to pump-and-dump Bertans, but I'm not sweating it. Of all the moves I wish the team had made over the years, that's not very high on my list.

[spurraider21]

They gave him slightly more money and stretched it out over there years instead of the two they had originally planned on in order to meet the sign-and-trade criteria. It basically amounted to that tiny bit that was guaranteed in his last year though.



I think this is hindsight. The guy didn't have that great of a market. Certainly there were people like DAF who loved him. He actually had good numbers that last year. But he was an old player for his level of NBA experience, and he was limited with bad knees. The Wizards took Bertans without sending money back. That's not free. At most, I'd say we were talking about a second-round pick -- likely the one the team ended up getting last summer anyway. If he somehow had the same contract year, with the team still wanting to trade him, maybe he could've gotten a first. But he could've also not played much and left for nothing anyway.

I think it's cool to wish they had been psychic and found a way to pump-and-dump Bertans, but I'm not sweating it. Of all the moves I wish the team had made over the years, that's not very high on my list.
who is to say that bertans would have gotten the playtime with the spurs that he did with the wizards to the point where the spurs would pay him anything close to what the wizards ended up giving him? that seems to be a big part of your equation, that the spurs basically lucked out by not getting trapped into a big bertans contract. the team would have been better off with him that year instead of carroll. not that they'd have been contenders anyway.

obviously its hard to put full blame on the spurs for that whole scenario because if we had landed morris like we were supposed to nobody would have really batted an eye at the bertans deal. but it stings knowing we basically gave him up for nothing when he did have some perceived value around the league (or at least, was a year away from being perceived as having $80 mil value)

[Chinook]

who is to say that bertans would have gotten the playtime with the spurs that he did with the wizards to the point where the spurs would pay him anything close to what the wizards ended up giving him? that seems to be a big part of your equation, that the spurs basically lucked out by not getting trapped into a big bertans contract. the team would have been better off with him that year instead of carroll. not that they'd have been contenders anyway.

obviously its hard to put full blame on the spurs for that whole scenario because if we had landed morris like we were supposed to nobody would have really batted an eye at the bertans deal. but it stings knowing we basically gave him up for nothing when he did have some perceived value around the league (or at least, was a year away from being perceived as having $80 mil value)

The part of the equation is that Bertans gave up after getting his next deal. Maybe if he had been paid less, he would've kept trying. But I don't know. I do feel like he was asking out. He said things at the time that indicated he was unhappy with how he was used. I don't actually think the Spurs were interested in paying him a second big-boy contract, and I think he would've jumped at a bigger deal. I'm not nearly as sure that a Carroll from the year before would've actually been a downgrade from Bertans assuming he didn't break out. The Spurs had shooting and scoring. They lacked defense and size on the perimeter. Bertans had his moments, but he also got bullied repeatedly by any forward with strength. His lateral quickness was also miserable. Obviously knowing how it shook out, Davis was better. But if you're trying to win with a Murray/DMDR/LMA core, you can't have positionless liabilities out there. As you said, that would be really obvious if Morris had joined up. Looking at the eventual playoff bracket that year, there was no way the Spurs would've had a chance of getting out of the second round without multiple defensive forwards. Assuming health and not falling off, being able to platoon Morris and Carroll and letting guys like Mills and Forbes shoot was certainly viable enough to be a discussion point.

[spurraider21]

for 2 years, he's basically been about what we had expected. you can take that in a good or bad way

but he has provided a pretty nice jolt to the offense at times. its not just that he shoots at a high %, but the type of shots are pretty impressive. he's not just out there waiting to get an open look, he is always moving and just needs the slightest crease of daylight to get a shot off, which is obviously more valuable than a typical "sit in the corner, wait for your guy to double" specialist. while champagnie put on a nice shooting exhibit at the end of last year and in summer league, he wasnt creating the types of looks mcdermott did

obviously, theres give and take given his defensive... limitations, to put it gently

but he has not looked himself in the preseason, and not just because his shot isnt falling. the movement doesnt seem as sharp. a clumsy out of bounds penalty like the one he had yesterday is inexcusable. but he's not moving with the same purpose that we've been accustomed to

i hope its just the case of a vet being rusty coming out of the offseason, because the bench is going to need to find ways to generate points, and he'd go a long way. plus, this version of mcdermott would not be a trade chip to anybody :lol

[CGD]

I think they have bigger FO type plans for Doug. Can see him traded by Feb and back here or a FO with Spurs ties in a few years

[playbonner15]

I think they have bigger FO type plans for Doug. Can see him traded by Feb and back here or a FO with Spurs ties in a few years
Yup can see him as an assistant coach in the future

[JuneJive]

Jesus. Took a quick glance and saw this thread up top.

Phew. After a few seconds.

[Fizziksman]

:elephant:elephant:elephant:elephant:elephant