The Good, the Bad and the Future After Joshua Primo's Rookie Season

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/joshua-primo-rookie-season-good-bad-future/

Primo is still a mystery but there were some good signs in his rookie season :tu

Article #6 of 200 for the 2022-23 season. Stay tuned for more...

I've completed deep dives on a handful of draft prospects so I got some movement on the Big Board (https://www.spurstalk.com/big-board-1-san-antonio-spurs-2022-nba-draft-outlook/). Not sure when I'll update it but that should be coming soon, IMO.

[KingKev]

I’m a hard seller. Will willfully eat my crow if he turns into a contributing piece. I think he’ll become more Walker than DJ.

More evidence a big reason we reached was because he’s a good kid and fit the character requirement. This character BS needs to be refined till we have some talent.

There was some real hard reaching for the good, my fave being:

He averaged 3.0 assists per 36 minutes, which — to put that number into perspective — was significantly higher than the rates posted by Devin Vassell (2.5), Keldon Johnson (2.4), Bryn Forbes (2.2) and Doug McDermott (1.9).

[PhantomDashCam]

Great article. Might also contain one of my favourite quotes:


A Spurs staffer had an interesting way of describing the rookie’s confidence: “Primo acts like he has seen this movie before and he knows how it ends. He knows he will be great and that he just needs to take the steps one at a time on his way to becoming a star.”

Let’s just hope that film is more ‘Citizen Kane’ and less ‘Rise of Skywalker’…

[mo7888]

https://www.spurstalk.com/joshua-primo-rookie-season-good-bad-future/

Primo is still a mystery but there were some good signs in his rookie season :tu

Article #6 of 200 for the 2022-23 season. Stay tuned for more...

I've completed deep dives on a handful of draft prospects so I got some movement on the Big Board (https://www.spurstalk.com/big-board-1-san-antonio-spurs-2022-nba-draft-outlook/). Not sure when I'll update it but that should be coming soon, IMO.

I think the movie will end quite well for him.... I also think he's taller than 6'4" now....

[objective]

Primo has to take the development stairs one step at a time because he's not a good enough athlete to take them 2 at a time :lol

Anyways, despite being 6 months younger than fellow Canadian Mathurin, I think Mathurin is a much better prospect. If Mathurin is in the board by some miracle, I hope the Spurs don't hesitate to take him

[KingKev]

^ the youth argument when it comes down to 3-6 months is hilarious for so many reasons.

[Mr. Body]

I'm completely unconcerned about his rate of development. He's going to make a lot of people look like the dorks you are.

[KobesAchilles]

3 years from now when he still sucks, people will be here saying well he’s young :lol

[baseline bum]

I think the movie will end quite well for him.... I also think he's taller than 6'4" now....

Hope his movie plays out a lot better than Vassell's has played out so far.

[KingKev]

Hope his movie plays out a lot better than Vassell's has played out so far.

Likely to be the sequel.

[SAGirl]

Thanks for the article. It was a good one, but there’s a chance he’s a marginal player long term? or there’s a chance he develops and becomes a star?

I get it. He truly is too young. I think if he were headed for stardom though, the signs would have been more noticeable. We’d see some flashes.

That said, I am hopefully just a prisoner of the moment. He has youth squarely on his side. Next season we’ll get a better idea of more or less where he’s headed.

[GAustex]

3 years from now when he still sucks, people will be here saying well he’s young :lol

^

[Uriel]

It's cool to see how high the Spurs are on Primo, thinking he's going to be a star. Then again, they were extremely high on Kyle Anderson too, and we all know how that turned out.

[The Truth #6]

Confidence and youth, those are the two main positives it looks like. But without any physical gifts. Let’s hope he’s a hard worker.

[Degoat]

People are gonna eat major crow on Primo. The kid is 19! It takes time for some guys, Dejounte couldn’t dribble the ball his first 2 seasons in the league now look at him.

[BacktoBasics]

Everyone is star or bust with this kid. I’d be thrilled with another Vassell or Keldon.

[Strategic]

Hopefully the kid puts in a ton of work this off season.

[Spursfanfromafar]

If Primo's movie plays out like Vassell's, I will consider it a success. Both him and Vassell would be viable starters in a team and that would be a good outcome. I am still hoping that the outcome goes from good to great. A la Murray. And the ingredients are there.

[XDT76]

Everyone is star or bust with this kid. I’d be thrilled with another Vassell or Keldon.

Nah I think he is a Danny Green+ don't think he will be a bust but would need a lot of growth to ba a star, at least with DjM type of growth which is not common. If everyone who Spurs draft can have that kind of growth we will be swarming with all stars.

[timvp]

If Primo's movie plays out like Vassell's, I will consider it a success. Both him and Vassell would be viable starters in a team and that would be a good outcome.

Agreed. I'd take Primo and Vassell becoming legit starters. For Primo to become a star, his talent would have to be through the roof.

I reread my initial article on Primo being drafted and ........... yeah, a lot of it holds true after his rookie season:

https://www.spurstalk.com/joshua-primo-drafted-san-antonio-spurs-thoughts/ (https://www.spurstalk.com/joshua-primo-drafted-san-antonio-spurs-thoughts/)

[SAGirl]

^ The most likely outcome for him is average roleplayer. He’s not there yet, so improvement is still required To get there, which is why bust is still a possible outcome, though hopefully he crushes that next season.

[vy65]

Elephant in the room is whether him at 12 was justifiable. Haven’t seen him at 12 defended and that’s because it was a bad pick.

[Atl Spur]

Elephant in the room is whether him at 12 was justifiable. Haven’t seen him at 12 defended and that’s because it was a bad pick.

Brother can you please the last 20 picks @ #12 and tell me taking a guy you feel with high upside was bad….. please stop embarrassing yourself.

[Sugus]

People don't give Primo his respect as a prospect because they underrate the things he's great (or projected to be great at), and overrate the things he's bad (or projected to be bad at). His confidence and poise being the main one.

His shot can and will get tweaked. He'll shoot better - his form is much better than it was at the start of the season, his FT shooting is not a problem, he's always been a shooter. I don't pay any mind to percentages, whereas I see posters falling over themselves - can a 19 year old ever possibly get better at shooting?! The answer is yes, of course... Him stagnating or never improving shooting-wise is literally the exception and not the rule. Ben Simmons-type players stagnate in shooting, not Primo's (lifelong shooter-first smaller guards, I mean).

What's tremendously underrated are his poise, his naturality playing the game, his creativity on-the-fly, and his control of the game. Those are things NOT every prospect, or most prospects really, can be relied on to improve. How many times do we see, each year, players who are mentally "too weak" for the playoffs? The big lights? Not Primo. He played a very controlled (though scoringly unremarkable) play-in game; sticked to his defensive assignment, knew he wasn't the one to be relied upon for scoring, just went out there and did his job. That's great for a rookie. Coachable, scalable, repeatable. All things you want in your prospects.

I hardly see people mentioning his passing game when talking about him - further yet, some posters insist he's a Danny-Green kind of player :lmao. When ever did Danny fucking Green "wow" you with a creative pass or play? Literally never. He could not put the ball on the floor, literally, much less be an offensively flourishing force. Primo is completely different. His entire game is predicated on putting the ball on the floor to create opportunities - whether by ISO'ing his way onto a 3, or driving and kicking out (a staple of this Spurs team, sadly), or trying to get to the hoop (yes, I know he's not finishing well yet, yes he'll get blocked, etc). His passes miss the mark because he doesn't yet have the experience to make them consistently, but the skill is there (Manu, anyone?). His game, even as a rookie, paints a great picture of what player he wants to be. And that's where he'll be headed, as the scout says, one step at a time.

Can he bust? Of course. His handles might never develop enough to whitstand a great defense focused on him (the Linsanity special). His lack of explosive athleticism might prove too big a hamper in a league filled with athletic wonders. Injuries, of course, can never be ruled out either. But until then, he'll do the things that he's been doing, because he's that kind of player - he doesn't give a fuck about the pressure and the outside noise. And that - you can't teach. And it separates "the guys" from the "JAGs", like my lil' Lonnie.

[Sugus]

Also, can we put his draft spot discussion to bed already? JFC, what a way to get hung-up on the littlest things. I was team Sengun on draft night, too... Over a year ago. Primo isn't even a rookie anymore - who cares when he was drafted? After the draft is over, you're into the league - #1 pick or #60. Equal chances for everyone to work on their games, improve, and stick around; or don't, and get Darko'd or some shit.

He was drafted #12, get over it, for fuck's sake.

[vy65]

Brother can you please the last 20 picks @ #12 and tell me taking a guy you feel with high upside was bad….. please stop embarrassing yourself.

2020 - Tyrese Halliburton
2019 - PJ Washington
2018 - Miles Bridges
2017 - Donovan Mitchel (13th)

Next time, try to learn how to speak english

[Atl Spur]

2020 - Tyrese Halliburton
2019 - PJ Washington
2018 - Miles Bridges
2017 - Donovan Mitchel (13th)

Next time, try to learn how to speak english

Speak English? Most would understand sometimes words are left out by mistake:) As far as #12 picks, please list the others….. I clearly referenced 20. I’ll wait sir.

[Atl Spur]

2019 PJ Washington, Kentucky – Charlotte Hornets
2018 Miles Bridges, Michigan State University – Charlotte Hornets
2017 Luke Kennard, Duke – Detroit Pistons
2016 Taurean Prince, Baylor – Utah Jazz
2015 Trey Lyles, Kentucky – Utah Jazz
2014 Dario Saric, Croatia – Orlando Magic
2013 Steven Adams, Pittsburgh – Oklahoma City Thunder
2012 Jeremy Lamb, Connecticut – Houston Rockets
2011 Alec Burks, Colorado – Utah Jazz
2010 Xavier Henry, Kansas – Memphis Grizz

[Atl Spur]

2009 Gerald Henderson, Duke – Charlotte Bobcats
2008 Jason Thompson, Rider – Sacramento Kings
2007 Thaddeus Young, Georgia Tech – New Orleans Hornets
2006 Hilton Armstrong, Connecticut – New Orleans Hornets
2005 Yaroslav Korolev, CSKA Moscow – L.A. Clippers
2004 Robert Swift, Bakersfield HS (Calif.) – Seattle Supersonics
2003 Nick Collison, Kansas – Seattle Supersonics
2002 Melvin Ely, Fresno State – L.A. Clippers
2001 Vladimir Radmanovic, Serbia & Montenegro – Seattle Supersonics
2000 Etan Thomas, Syracuse – Dallas Mavericks

[ZeusWillJudge]

You're one of the few people who pay enough attention to free throw rate. It takes a toll on the opponent, obviously. But if the defense needs to foul to contain you, it says you're able to put pressure on them.

The single biggest thing to move Primo up a level, IMO, is strength. Muscle. He's got the stroke. He gets pushed off his shot too much. He can't absorb contact on his way to the hole, so he gets stopped instead of drawing fouls. And he winds up taking too many of his shots from out beyond the arc, to avoid that contact.

Getting stronger isn't what will make him better, but it's what would allow him to use his talent. I think Pop gave him all those minutes at SF specifically to toughen him, and get him used to contact from bigger players. I don't think he would have done that if they didn't really believe in Primo.

Acting like his age isn't a factor are just silly. For him, though, I think it's more body development because of his age. If he comes back this fall bigger and stronger, I think his numbers will improve.

[Atl Spur]

I would hope Josh will have a better career than some these players but who knows….

[Atl Spur]

You're one of the few people who pay enough attention to free throw rate. It takes a toll on the opponent, obviously. But if the defense needs to foul to contain you, it says you're able to put pressure on them.

The single biggest thing to move Primo up a level, IMO, is strength. Muscle. He's got the stroke. He gets pushed off his shot too much. He can't absorb contact on his way to the hole, so he gets stopped instead of drawing fouls. And he winds up taking too many of his shots from out beyond the arc, to avoid that contact.

Getting stronger isn't what will make him better, but it's what would allow him to use his talent. I think Pop gave him all those minutes at SF specifically to toughen him, and get him used to contact from bigger players. I don't think he would have done that if they didn't really believe in Primo.

Acting like his age isn't a factor are just silly. For him, though, I think it's more body development because of his age. If he comes back this fall bigger and stronger, I think his numbers will improve.

Once he learns the game at this level he’ll be fine, the fact he has intangibles that can’t be taught speaks volumes.

[Atl Spur]

VY54 or whoever you are, the #12 pick homie doesn’t carry the level of player quality or expectation you thought huh? Do your research next time clown!!����

[R. DeMurre]

It's mostly pointless to hope or brood too much at this point, given his age. The only way it would matter would be if a scenario arose where someone offered the Spurs something for him. If Trajan Langdon and David Griffin contact Brian Wright on a conference call and say, hey, we want to reunite Primo with his Alabama teammate Herb Jones-- we'll trade you Trey Murphy straight up for him.... Do you do it?

[Atl Spur]

It's mostly pointless to hope or brood too much at this point, given his age. The only way it would matter would be if a scenario arose where someone offered the Spurs something for him. If Trajan Langdon and David Griffin contact Brian Wright on a conference call and say, hey, we want to reunite Primo with his Alabama teammate Herb Jones-- we'll trade you Trey Murphy straight up for him.... Do you do it?

Nope. I trust our development track record….. New Orleans not so much

[KingKev]

I’m a hard seller. Will willfully eat my crow if he turns into a contributing piece. I think he’ll become more Walker than DJ.

More evidence a big reason we reached was because he’s a good kid and fit the character requirement. This character BS needs to be refined till we have some talent.

There was some real hard reaching for the good, my fave being:

He averaged 3.0 assists per 36 minutes, which — to put that number into perspective — was significantly higher than the rates posted by Devin Vassell (2.5), Keldon Johnson (2.4), Bryn Forbes (2.2) and Doug McDermott (1.9).

How is averaging slightly better assists per 36 mins than 4 notably poor passers the good? I’d hope he’s better than Keldon, Forbes and McDougal who are all score first players and terrible passers.

[R. DeMurre]

Nope. I trust our development track record….. New Orleans not so much

Langdon has been with New Orleans since 2019, and before that was a scout for four years with the Spurs. The Pelicans have three rookies getting significant minutes in the first round of the playoffs against the team with the best record in the NBA. I'd say their recent development track record looks pretty good.

[Atl Spur]

Langdon has been with New Orleans since 2019, and before that was a scout for four years with the Spurs. The Pelicans have three rookies getting significant minutes in the first round of the playoffs against the team with the best record in the NBA. I'd say their recent development track record looks pretty good.

I’d still rather go with the teacher than the pupil! Hopefully Josh proves me wright✊🏾

[GAustex]

Fortune cookie says maybe

[jjspur]

I think the point is most people are a bit upset with Primo when they should be upset with the front office. A player taken in the lottery should have talent, should be be good, but that's a choice made by management not the player. I'll admit alot of players are taken in the lottery don't exactly pan out even after 2-3 years but again they didn't ask to be taken at that spot.

With Primo the excuse is that he's very young and was a one and done. I say give the kid one more year. If he improves say 20 % in most categories then the pick was justified but if he doesn't then it becomes hard to justify keeping him for the final 2 years of his contract. Getting rid of the player is one solution, but probably the better solution is to learn from past drafting mistakes or fire the guy doing the drafting.
The spurs have screwed up a few drafts over the years but they were typically selecting towards the latter part of the draft unlike the Knicks or Sacramento who get a chance at a good selection but still screw it up. In retrospect Vassell at 11 was a decent pick. Lets hope Primo improves as well so we won't be having this conversation again one year from now.

[GAustex]

Got nothing agin Primo
Seems nice enough kid
Front office should of done better
Should have Got a Lotto pick that filled a need
Lack of PF is glaring
Lack of size and athletic PF is and was the need
Instead we got a nice kid who is a maybe who turns it over a lot but every now and then there is a glimmer
But fortune cookie says be patient

[Dejounte]

Got nothing agin Primo
Seems nice enough kid
Front office should of done better
Should have Got a Lotto pick that filled a need
Lack of PF is glaring
Lack of size and athletic PF is and was the need
Instead we got a nice kid who is a maybe who turns it over a lot but every now and then there is a glimmer
But fortune cookie says be patient

“Size and athletic PF”

I don’t see anyone yet that was selected after Primo that fits this criteria

Jury is still out on Kai Jones, but he may not even be a PF and is a C instead
I don’t know how much time Herbert has spent at the PF position, but his ceiling may not be as high due to his age
Jury is still out on Jalen Johnson who can’t find minutes with Atlanta
Trey Murphy might be the closest

that’s it. Those are the four guys. Not sure they’re worth losing sleep over but time will tell.

[Biggems]

The NBA game is way above the college game as far as speed, strength, physicality, conditioning, length of games and season, and also dealing with back to backs. There is also the extensive travel. So now, as an 18 year old rookie, he got a taste of all of this. He held his own. He did not seem overwhelmed or the stage too big. Still, it is evident he has a lot of growing to do. Now that he has a season to evaluate his abilities, it gives him his first true offseason to work on his game.

I have 3 areas I want him to work on. One, strength and conditioning. I want him to add some muscle mass throughout his frame to fill out his body. Second, I want him to work on his on and off ball defense. He was ok on defense as a rookie, but I want him to be great. Third, I want him to work on his 3pt shooting. Ideally, I would like to see him at least at 40%.

[Atl Spur]

Of course he needs to get better people, exercise some patience and fairness.

[exstatic]

2020 - Tyrese Halliburton
2019 - PJ Washington
2018 - Miles Bridges
2017 - Donovan Mitchel (13th)

Next time, try to learn how to speak english

13 isn’t 12. Each draft spot has its own odds of a player breaking out and being a star.

[toki9]

13 isn’t 12. Each draft spot has its own odds of a player breaking out and being a star.

Here are 2 articles that discuss those odds/probabilities (The second one is probably outdated, but still interesting):

https://medium.com/@burakcankoc/what-are-the-odds-to-become-an-all-star-for-each-draft-pick-2d113d6b82e5
https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

[XDT76]

People don't give Primo his respect as a prospect because they underrate the things he's great (or projected to be great at), and overrate the things he's bad (or projected to be bad at). His confidence and poise being the main one.

His shot can and will get tweaked. He'll shoot better - his form is much better than it was at the start of the season, his FT shooting is not a problem, he's always been a shooter. I don't pay any mind to percentages, whereas I see posters falling over themselves - can a 19 year old ever possibly get better at shooting?! The answer is yes, of course... Him stagnating or never improving shooting-wise is literally the exception and not the rule. Ben Simmons-type players stagnate in shooting, not Primo's (lifelong shooter-first smaller guards, I mean).

What's tremendously underrated are his poise, his naturality playing the game, his creativity on-the-fly, and his control of the game. Those are things NOT every prospect, or most prospects really, can be relied on to improve. How many times do we see, each year, players who are mentally "too weak" for the playoffs? The big lights? Not Primo. He played a very controlled (though scoringly unremarkable) play-in game; sticked to his defensive assignment, knew he wasn't the one to be relied upon for scoring, just went out there and did his job. That's great for a rookie. Coachable, scalable, repeatable. All things you want in your prospects.

I hardly see people mentioning his passing game when talking about him - further yet, some posters insist he's a Danny-Green kind of player :lmao. When ever did Danny fucking Green "wow" you with a creative pass or play? Literally never. He could not put the ball on the floor, literally, much less be an offensively flourishing force. Primo is completely different. His entire game is predicated on putting the ball on the floor to create opportunities - whether by ISO'ing his way onto a 3, or driving and kicking out (a staple of this Spurs team, sadly), or trying to get to the hoop (yes, I know he's not finishing well yet, yes he'll get blocked, etc). His passes miss the mark because he doesn't yet have the experience to make them consistently, but the skill is there (Manu, anyone?). His game, even as a rookie, paints a great picture of what player he wants to be. And that's where he'll be headed, as the scout says, one step at a time.

Can he bust? Of course. His handles might never develop enough to whitstand a great defense focused on him (the Linsanity special). His lack of explosive athleticism might prove too big a hamper in a league filled with athletic wonders. Injuries, of course, can never be ruled out either. But until then, he'll do the things that he's been doing, because he's that kind of player - he doesn't give a fuck about the pressure and the outside noise. And that - you can't teach. And it separates "the guys" from the "JAGs", like my lil' Lonnie.

You are exactly describing DG except for the passing and the iso 3, his TO is also partly due to his ball handling not only passing and even for the passing TO some are due to his handling leading him to a desperation situation thus I said he is a DG+. DG is also confident in himself even in PO, it's only whether his ability is at the level of his confidence which is the same as Primo. Primo can have great pass once in a while but his ast/to is worse than 1.5 and DG is constantly above it. No one push for the Spurs in this forum to draft Primo at 12 and if he is on another team no one here will say he has stars potential. No need to prop him so much just bcos we drafted him at 12. He did not display any ability consistently at a great/good level yet.

[Sugus]

You are exactly describing DG except for the passing and the iso 3, his TO is also partly due to his ball handling not only passing and even for the passing TO some are due to his handling leading him to a desperation situation thus I said he is a DG+. DG is also confident in himself even in PO, it's only whether his ability is at the level of his confidence which is the same as Primo. Primo can have great pass once in a while but his ast/to is worse than 1.5 and DG is constantly above it. No one push for the Spurs in this forum to draft Primo at 12 and if he is on another team no one here will say he has stars potential. No need to prop him so much just bcos we drafted him at 12. He did not display any ability consistently at a great/good level yet.

How am I "describing Primo" when I'm saying they're fundamentally different players? Again, Primo approximates the game through a dribbling guard's approach. He literally starts to dribble, most often, before anything else once he gets the ball beyond the 3pt line. And it's a good thing: he knows he can do a lot of good things with the ball in his hands. So, even though his low age and ballhandling ability prevents him from doing much of what he imagines, the instincts and mannerisms are all there. He might never reach Kyrie Irving-level handles, but I don't feel it's a stretch of any kind to say that he'll progress into having, at the least, league-average ballhandling.

Now Danny Green? He doesn't come close to league average handling. Literally can't drive or penetrate without getting stripped, which naturally limits him to a 3&D player - he Can't. Do. Anything. Else. That's not Primo. It hasn't been Rookie Primo, and there's no reason to believe it'll be Sophomore Primo, either. Again, I'm not saying he's a surefire prospect or anything of the sort, but if he busts, it certainly won't be because he cannot dribble a basketball. Acting like his TOs (yes, some due to getting his pocket picked, but most often due to risky passes/bad passes/stupid plays) are the same as DG's is stupid, IMO.

They're just different player archetypes, and I'm against the notion of comparing both players whatsoever. Primo doesn't project to be a 3&D, and didn't coming out of college (his defense has been a relatively new revelation).

[The Truth #6]

Someone else acknowledged it, but good to repeat, Primo had a bad year statistically across the board. He sucked. But I can still support him even if I still don’t love the pick. Pop seems to really like him and has a good read on players, ultimately, so I take that as a good thing. But yeah, he’s got work to do. But his instincts are good. His growth plates, however, less sure about.

[Chinook]

I don't think Primo is too small to play SF. To be clear, he's officially listed at 6-6; the TC roster the Spurs posted is the official measurement. What you seem to mean is that he was measured at 6-4 at the combine without shoes. It's fine to use shoeless height if you also take off the height for the average NBA SF. For some reason, Primo's shoed height only adds an inch, when the standard is 1.5 inches. He's not the only player who has a different added height (Aaron Wiggins only got a half-inch somehow), but that exacerbates the difference in comparison to his draft peers. You're talking about a player who's within an inch of obvious SFs in the league today, and he looks the part. I have never looked at Josh and thought size was going to be one of his struggle points. He's plenty big, whether that's reflected in the measurements or not.

I'm not really disagreeing with the critique of his skills, mind you. I just don't think he needs to have PG skills to make it. He's very clearly a wing if not a forward rather than a combo-guard. He needs to learn to how shoot and take advantage of openings, not how to run pick-and-rolls. The Spurs need to continue to look for point-guards to play next to Murray, replace Jones and to fill in as depth. I don't see that position as Primo's future, and I hope the Spurs figure that out before it's too late.

[KingKev]

^ the fro makes it tough to gauge but he is easily as tall as Keldon from what I’ve seen and Sean Elliott has made some
comments too. He’ll be 6’6 when its all said and done I bet probably see that on NBA.com this fall.


NBA teams have to send in shoeless height requirements measured by a doctor as of 2019. Rookie measurements are always BS. Devin Vassell was advertised as 6’7 lol

[Strategic]

I’m glad the Spurs drafted Primo instead of using a draft and stash pick, which really hasn’t worked out since Manu. I know Splitter helped out but he turned out to be a short term Spur.

[The Truth #6]

Chinook: Yeah, playing SF makes sense to me. First off, he's not quick enough to handle many shooting guards, though his defensive instincts appear to be good. He seems to put on muscle well so even if he doesn't grow any taller he should still fill out and that will help him at the SF just as much as getting taller. Now, I'm not sure if the Spurs are trying to make him a point guard specifically or they're enamored by his maturity and confidence and want him to be a star who would naturally dominate the ball. Sort of like a Kobe-lite is what I think they are hoping for. I suppose that's splitting hairs with point guard vs ball dominant scorer, but I don't see the team expecting Jones to be competing with Primo for minutes directly.

[Chinook]

^ the fro makes it tough to gauge but he is easily as tall as Keldon from what I’ve seen and Sean Elliott has made some
comments too. He’ll be 6’6 when its all said and done I bet probably see that on NBA.com this fall.


NBA teams have to send in shoeless height requirements measured by a doctor as of 2019. Rookie measurements are always BS. Devin Vassell was advertised as 6’7 lol

My criticism was timvp constantly using Primo's shoeless height as his listing when he's always been listed with shoes -- just as every other NBA player. Lonnie Walker is listed at 6-4. Primo is much taller than Walker. It gives a false impression of Primo's size to use the wrong measurement. Sure, Josh is or was 6-4 in socks, but then guys like Walker are under 6-3 in socks. Johnson is under 6-5 in socks. But they use their listed heights, and Primo's listed height is 6-6, right in line with the average NBA SF.

Also, if the NBA does make teams list players with real shoeless measurements (which I'm pretty sure they don't even though that was supposed to happen), then Primo would be officially listed at 6-6 without shoes, making using his combine shoeless measurement make even less sense.

[timvp]

My criticism was timvp constantly using Primo's shoeless height as his listing when he's always been listed with shoes -- just as every other NBA player. Lonnie Walker is listed at 6-4. Primo is much taller than Walker. It gives a false impression of Primo's size to use the wrong measurement. Sure, Josh is or was 6-4 in socks, but then guys like Walker are under 6-3 in socks. Johnson is under 6-5 in socks. But they use their listed heights, and Primo's listed height is 6-6, right in line with the average NBA SF.

The most accurate heights are supposed to be listed on NBA.com (https://www.nba.com/spurs/roster). That shows Primo at 6-foot-4, Johnson at 6-foot-6, Vassell at 6-foot-5, etc. Hopefully Primo's height is officially changed to 6-foot-6 after a late growth spurt ... but he doesn't look 6-foot-6 to me yet and that official listing doesn't have him at 6-foot-6.

I see that training camp listing you're talking about but that looks like it was just sent by the PR team. That one has Tre Jones as 6-foot-3 and Devin Vassell at 6-foot-7 so I'm not exactly believing that listing, tbh.

[daslicer]

Primo looks 6'4 to me at best he could be 6'5 but again he's still undersized. Let's stop being in denial of his height and hope the Spurs somehow find a way to get a legit SF.

[offset formation]

Primo looks 6'4 to me at best he could be 6'5 but again he's still undersized. Let's stop being in denial of his height and hope the Spurs somehow find a way to get a legit SF.

Pop is playing him at the 1 and 2 as much as the 3. Honestly, I have no idea where he'll end up and it could very well impact his future if he can't settle into one of those rolls and begin to excel at one of them. I'm inclined to say he's best suited at the 3 despite perhaps being a hair below average size for the position given he shouldn't by a ball handler until he shows he Cando something with it in his hands.

[daslicer]

Pop is playing him at the 1 and 2 as much as the 3. Honestly, I have no idea where he'll end up and it could very well impact his future if he can't settle into one of those rolls and begin to excel at one of them. I'm inclined to say he's best suited at the 3 despite perhaps being a hair below average size for the position given he shouldn't by a ball handler until he shows he Cando something with it in his hands.

If he doesn't figure out how to be a successful 1 or 2 he will be pretty much useless over the long-term.

[daslicer]

I wanted Sengun or Tre Murphy originally over Primo. If either of those 2 kids turn out better this will go down as bad pick.

[itzsoweezee]

3 years from now when he still sucks, people will be here saying well he’s young :lol

This is exactly what happened with Samanic.

[offset formation]

People don't give Primo his respect as a prospect because they underrate the things he's great (or projected to be great at), and overrate the things he's bad (or projected to be bad at). His confidence and poise being the main one.

His shot can and will get tweaked. He'll shoot better - his form is much better than it was at the start of the season, his FT shooting is not a problem, he's always been a shooter. I don't pay any mind to percentages, whereas I see posters falling over themselves - can a 19 year old ever possibly get better at shooting?! The answer is yes, of course... Him stagnating or never improving shooting-wise is literally the exception and not the rule. Ben Simmons-type players stagnate in shooting, not Primo's (lifelong shooter-first smaller guards, I mean).

What's tremendously underrated are his poise, his naturality playing the game, his creativity on-the-fly, and his control of the game. Those are things NOT every prospect, or most prospects really, can be relied on to improve. How many times do we see, each year, players who are mentally "too weak" for the playoffs? The big lights? Not Primo. He played a very controlled (though scoringly unremarkable) play-in game; sticked to his defensive assignment, knew he wasn't the one to be relied upon for scoring, just went out there and did his job. That's great for a rookie. Coachable, scalable, repeatable. All things you want in your prospects.

I hardly see people mentioning his passing game when talking about him - further yet, some posters insist he's a Danny-Green kind of player :lmao. When ever did Danny fucking Green "wow" you with a creative pass or play? Literally never. He could not put the ball on the floor, literally, much less be an offensively flourishing force. Primo is completely different. His entire game is predicated on putting the ball on the floor to create opportunities - whether by ISO'ing his way onto a 3, or driving and kicking out (a staple of this Spurs team, sadly), or trying to get to the hoop (yes, I know he's not finishing well yet, yes he'll get blocked, etc). His passes miss the mark because he doesn't yet have the experience to make them consistently, but the skill is there (Manu, anyone?). His game, even as a rookie, paints a great picture of what player he wants to be. And that's where he'll be headed, as the scout says, one step at a time.

Can he bust? Of course. His handles might never develop enough to whitstand a great defense focused on him (the Linsanity special). His lack of explosive athleticism might prove too big a hamper in a league filled with athletic wonders. Injuries, of course, can never be ruled out either. But until then, he'll do the things that he's been doing, because he's that kind of player - he doesn't give a fuck about the pressure and the outside noise. And that - you can't teach. And it separates "the guys" from the "JAGs", like my lil' Lonnie.

Not worried about his shot. Or his defense long term. It's everything else. Thus the 3 and D tag I'm giving him.

[Chinook]

The most accurate heights are supposed to be listed on NBA.com (https://www.nba.com/spurs/roster). That shows Primo at 6-foot-4, Johnson at 6-foot-6, Vassell at 6-foot-5, etc. Hopefully Primo's height is officially changed to 6-foot-6 after a late growth spurt ... but he doesn't look 6-foot-6 to me yet and that official listing doesn't have him at 6-foot-6.

I see that training camp listing you're talking about but that looks like it was just sent by the PR team. That one has Tre Jones as 6-foot-3 and Devin Vassell at 6-foot-7 so I'm not exactly believing that listing, tbh.

Obviously, Primo didn't shrink after the combine. So unless you believe a guy like Danny Green happened to grow an inch in his early 30s to compensate for losing his shoes, I think it's more likely that there's a mixture of reported heights, most of them being legacy listings including shoes but an increasing number being listed without. That's sort of the point of using the team listings -- they tend to give the same height boosts to everyone. I don't care if Primo is 6-6 in shoes, out of them, whatever. What I do care about is if Primo is short enough to where he needs to be a combo-guard to survive in the NBA. That, I don't see, either in the measurements or in the videos. He seems like a guy who's bigger than guards but smaller than PFs. It's why I consider him a wing and think he needs to focus on wing skills rather than guard skills. I don't think it does anyone any good to put him at PG when it's a position that badly needs a new infusion of dedicated talent rather than just be a throwaway position for combo-guards in Pop's "hydra" offense.

Like you, I hope Primo's had a growth spurt that'll bring his listed height up to 6-6. That's just good for everybody. But if that happens, he'll be 6-7 if not 6-8 by conventional NBA standards. Even if the listed heights have changed, the way we've traditionally thought about height requirements for positions hasn't caught up. If 6-6 was the bare minimum for playing the SF position in 2018, then 6-4.5 is the minimum now. If 6-8 was the min for PFs, then 6-6.5 is the min now.

[Chinook]

Primo looks 6'4 to me at best he could be 6'5 but again he's still undersized. Let's stop being in denial of his height and hope the Spurs somehow find a way to get a legit SF.

I don't particularly care about Primo or his height. He's not good enough to where it matters yet. I care way more about Pop getting real guards and forwards on the team rather than a bunch of wings though. For a team as consistently undersized as the Spurs are, their lack of smaller, speedy, dynamic scorers is galling. It's a big reason why they can't contain any star PG and why they can't seem to put pressure on a defense even though they have a few guys who can score. A lot of people on this forum constantly complain about the lack of forwards, and it's not without merit, but the bigger issue is the lack of specialization in general.

I wish Primo like Walker, a 6-4 guard in shoes whose draft stock was ballooned by quickness and athleticism. But he's not, he's an average-sized wing who's going to play four positions for most his rookie deal and hopefully figure out something eventually. He's not too small to be a dedicated wing, even if he hasn't and won't grow, but Pop has to play him there and not at PG. He doesn't have the dynamism to make that position work, even if he develops the skills.

[offset formation]

I don't particularly care about Primo or his height. He's not good enough to where it matters yet. I care way more about Pop getting real guards and forwards on the team rather than a bunch of wings though. For a team as consistently undersized as the Spurs are, their lack of smaller, speedy, dynamic scorers is galling. It's a big reason why they can't contain any star PG and why they can't seem to put pressure on a defense even though they have a few guys who can score. A lot of people on this forum constantly complain about the lack of forwards, and it's not without merit, but the bigger issue is the lack of specialization in general.

I wish Primo like Walker, a 6-4 guard in shoes whose draft stock was ballooned by quickness and athleticism. But he's not, he's an average-sized wing who's going to play four positions for most his rookie deal and hopefully figure out something eventually. He's not too small to be a dedicated wing, even if he hasn't and won't grow, but Pop has to play him there and not at PG. He doesn't have the dynamism to make that position work, even if he develops the skills.

ALL of this. Nailed it.

[wildbill2u]

I don't recall him EVER beating a defensive player one-on-one going to the basket. When the defender stayed with him (as they all did) he got trapped in the paint and had to pass out. Totally ineffective. I think he has pretty good defensive instincts despite his lack of speed. Maybe we are looking at him to do things offensively (PG? SG?) that he simply isn't going to do well.

If he can develop into a 3 and D like Bowen, we will be lucky.

[Atl Spur]

……….. classic chicken little’s

[offset formation]

……….. classic chicken little’s

He hasn't shown much of anything this year Atl, and I bet you know that in your heart of hearts. Your confidence in him is admirable in spite of that, because he's got electrolytes of course, but you should also prep yourself for disappointment that theres a high liklihood that he won't be a franchise trajectory-changing player when it all shakes out.

And while we're at it, exstatic liking this when he's been early to the disappointment line on multiple other players that had better years than Primo, is quite a thing. But, Brawndo and all, I know.

[exstatic]

He hasn't shown much of anything this year Atl, and I bet you know that in your heart of hearts. Your confidence in him is admirable in spite of that, because he's got electrolytes of course, but you should also prep yourself for disappointment that theres a high liklihood that he won't be a franchise trajectory-changing player when it all shakes out.

And while we're at it, exstatic liking this when he's been early to the disappointment line on multiple other players that had better years than Primo, is quite a thing. But, Brawndo and all, I know.

He’s a #12 pick. It’s like playing with house money.

And when have I ever been down on a FRP during or immediately after their rookie year? I gave Lonnie three fucking years before I threw in the towel. I was done with Sammich after his second year, but then, so were the Spurs and pretty much the NBA, so that’s not looking like a bad call.

[offset formation]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/platform/amp/2022/5/7/23056802/spurs-player-season-review-the-idea-of-josh-primo-was-more-exciting-than-the-reality

[KingKev]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/platform/amp/2022/5/7/23056802/spurs-player-season-review-the-idea-of-josh-primo-was-more-exciting-than-the-reality

PTR has to be the worst sports blog ever.

“The reasons for optimism are many. For starters, it would not be surprising to see his official height be listed at an inch or two higher next season — some sites already have him at 6’6” — which should help his defensive versatility. Even people who work within the Spurs’ organization like Matt Bonner and Sean Elliott mentioned that he looked taller during broadcasts.”

They are arguing that an upgrade to his listed height should help his D while also arguing he was ALREADY taller this season than his listed height.

[offset formation]

PTR has to be the worst sports blog ever.

“The reasons for optimism are many. For starters, it would not be surprising to see his official height be listed at an inch or two higher next season — some sites already have him at 6’6” — which should help his defensive versatility. Even people who work within the Spurs’ organization like Matt Bonner and Sean Elliott mentioned that he looked taller during broadcasts.”

They are arguing that an upgrade to his listed height should help his D while also arguing he was ALREADY taller this season than his listed height.

Yeah, I disliked that part also. They trashed his season rather ruthlessly then try to end on a high note of optimism, well because he's got electrolytes, basically.

[Ariel]

I'm curious as to where you all would rank Primo among this year's 2 guards, purely valuing him as a prospect given what we know today, and sparing any sour grapes argument such as "he already knows the system" and such. I'm talking about an honest assessment of who's a better NBA prospect than him and who isn't from the perspective of a third party who could have a choice between them, regardless of whether he was a good pick or not last year. This year's class (partial list, obviously):
Jaden Ivey
Shaedon Sharpe
Dyson Daniels
Bennedict Mathurin
Johnny Davis
Malaki Branham
Blake Wesley
Ochai Agbaji
Bryce McGowens
Jaden Hardy
Jalen Williams
MarJon Beauchamp
Christian Braun
Terquavion Smith
Trevor Keels

[Drom John]

Ahead of Davis.
And if Mathurin is around #9, then Primo at #12 is ok.

[Mr. Body]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/platform/amp/2022/5/7/23056802/spurs-player-season-review-the-idea-of-josh-primo-was-more-exciting-than-the-reality

This shit is stupid and I'd be embarrassed to post it. It was clear when he was playing late in the season that he was concentrating on getting his rotations and sets right. He also was rebuilding his shot, if you paid any attention. He was landing on one foot, which wasn't great, and was working on his stance. He may suck, he may be great, but what we saw was a kid very clearly thinking a lot about what he was doing. It's a push year getting his feet wet. Once he gets acclimated, then we can see his talent.

[Drom John]

And NBA.com has Davis as the consensus #10.

[Mr. Body]

It's impossible to say where Primo would be in this draft after another year at Bama. He was slated to play a big role. He's pretty different than most of the guards on that list, in that he was having primary playmaker duties and most of those guards don't have those abilities.

[Ariel]

It's impossible to say where Primo would be in this draft after another year at Bama. He was slated to play a big role. He's pretty different than most of the guards on that list, in that he was having primary playmaker duties and most of those guards don't have those abilities.
That's exactly what I said I was not asking about. I didn't say "take a time machine go back a year and have him play at Alabama". And every player is different, that doesn't mean you can't make a choice between them. Sounds like the kind of reasoning that's usually argued to avoid an honest answer that may not be pleasant to face.

[rjv]

This shit is stupid and I'd be embarrassed to post it. It was clear when he was playing late in the season that he was concentrating on getting his rotations and sets right. He also was rebuilding his shot, if you paid any attention. He was landing on one foot, which wasn't great, and was working on his stance. He may suck, he may be great, but what we saw was a kid very clearly thinking a lot about what he was doing. It's a push year getting his feet wet. Once he gets acclimated, then we can see his talent.

yeah, i'm not a fan of hypotheticals. way too many variables involved and it just comes down to a pure guess.

[timvp]

I'm curious as to where you all would rank Primo among this year's 2 guards, purely valuing him as a prospect given what we know today, and sparing any sour grapes argument such as "he already knows the system" and such. I'm talking about an honest assessment of who's a better NBA prospect than him and who isn't from the perspective of a third party who could have a choice between them, regardless of whether he was a good pick or not last year. This year's class (partial list, obviously):
Jaden Ivey
Shaedon Sharpe
Dyson Daniels
Bennedict Mathurin
Johnny Davis
Malaki Branham
Blake Wesley
Ochai Agbaji
Bryce McGowens
Jaden Hardy
Jalen Williams
MarJon Beauchamp
Christian Braun
Terquavion Smith
Trevor Keels

Good question. Really difficult one to answer. Primo would undoubtedly be behind Sharpe and Mathurin. Most likely behind Daniels, Davis and Branham. Possibly behind Agbaji (if a contender is drafting) and Jalen Williams (if he does well in the scrimmages). Probably not behind Wesley, McGowens or Hardy. Definitely not behind the rest.

Looking at it as unbiased as I can, my guess is Primo would go somewhere between 14 and 20 in this draft if he was made available.

[John B]

Good question. Really difficult one to answer. Primo would undoubtedly be behind Sharpe and Mathurin. Most likely behind Daniels, Davis and Branham. Possibly behind Agbaji (if a contender is drafting) and Jalen Williams (if he does well in the scrimmages). Probably not behind Wesley, McGowens or Hardy. Definitely not behind the rest.

Looking at it as unbiased as I can, my guess is Primo would go somewhere between 14 and 20 in this draft if he was made available.

Wow :wow:wow:wow. And this includes their ceiling? I think Primo can play SG/SF and ultimately backing down smaller defender, a 2-3 years project. I’d put him behind Ivey, Mathurin, Davis, Sharpe. So top 5 for me. But this list doesn’t even include the other positions, so maybe top 9-10 in this year draft.

[offset formation]

This shit is stupid and I'd be embarrassed to post it. It was clear when he was playing late in the season that he was concentrating on getting his rotations and sets right. He also was rebuilding his shot, if you paid any attention. He was landing on one foot, which wasn't great, and was working on his stance. He may suck, he may be great, but what we saw was a kid very clearly thinking a lot about what he was doing. It's a push year getting his feet wet. Once he gets acclimated, then we can see his talent.

Did you know he was the youngest player in the NBA?

Btw, why would I be embarrassed to post it. Nowhere did I say I cosigned everything in it. This is a fucking discussion board. There's a take that clearly differs from yours, but stop being so fucking defensive of players that had the third worst season in the league by at least one metric.

It's not a good look and makes you look overly defensive. And again, he clearly has a chance to improve and I've even predicted it, "if you were paying attention."

Shitty post here, Mr. Body. Really shitty.

[Ariel]

Good question. Really difficult one to answer. Primo would undoubtedly be behind Sharpe and Mathurin. Most likely behind Daniels, Davis and Branham. Possibly behind Agbaji (if a contender is drafting) and Jalen Williams (if he does well in the scrimmages). Probably not behind Wesley, McGowens or Hardy. Definitely not behind the rest.

Looking at it as unbiased as I can, my guess is Primo would go somewhere between 14 and 20 in this draft if he was made available.
Thanks. I have him ranked a tier lower, as I'd still take Wesley and Hardy (simply because of offensive potential, but may end up a bust) over him, but I can see why you'd place him there, given the arguments you made in your article. In any case I hope Primo exceeds my expectations. I'm not confident he'll ever be worthy of a lottery pick, but it's not like we missed an obvious star to get him. I'll be happy if he ends up a solid rotation player 2 or 3 years down the road, which could very well be.

[timvp]

Thanks. I have him ranked a tier lower, as I'd still take Wesley and Hardy (simply because of offensive potential, but may end up a bust) over him, but I can see why you'd place him there, given the arguments you made in your article. In any case I hope Primo exceeds my expectations. I'm not confident he'll ever be worthy of a lottery pick, but it's not like we missed an obvious star to get him. I'll be happy if he ends up a solid rotation player 2 or 3 years down the road, which could very well be.

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpg

Ouch, tbh :lol

[Mugen]

:lol

[Ariel]

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpg

Ouch, tbh :lol
That's maybe more honesty that I was going for :lol

[slick'81]

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpgI

Ouch, tbh :lol


sounds about right. :cry

[Chinook]

I think Primo is going to dominate the summer league. I do wonder, however, if the Spurs had realized they were going to have a chance at making the playoffs if they would have taken Duarte. I think in retrospect it's pretty clear Pop was not planning on the team being any good this year, and Murray and Johnson sort of dragged the team to a play-in spot. I don't think Duarte is a star, but he's a damned good player and probably would have locked down the starting two-guard spot for a few years.

[GAustex]

Atl poster avoiding this thread

[RC_Drunkford]

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpg

Ouch, tbh :lol

:lmao

:pop: He reminds me of Michael

Reporter: Michael Finley?

:pop: No, Michael Jordan

[GAustex]

Lol poop and our ballyhooed front office picked a player last year in the lottery that would go in the second round this year.
And some want that drunk asshole to keep coaching.

[vy65]

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpg

Ouch, tbh :lol

You son of a bitch, I'm in

[offset formation]

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpg

Ouch, tbh :lol

I was so sure that Ryen Russillo and Bill Simmons were dead wrong about the choice PATFO made last year because well, frankly they've been wrong a bunch before. But it's clear that, based on his first year at least, I was the one wearing silver and black tinted glasses. And it's a bit embarrassing because were Ryen to go back to his twitter mentions that day, I was telling him what a fool he was.

[slick'81]

:lolPeeps saying hed be a top 5 pick this draft

[SAGirl]

I think Primo is going to dominate the summer league. I do wonder, however, if the Spurs had realized they were going to have a chance at making the playoffs if they would have taken Duarte. I think in retrospect it's pretty clear Pop was not planning on the team being any good this year, and Murray and Johnson sort of dragged the team to a play-in spot. I don't think Duarte is a star, but he's a damned good player and probably would have locked down the starting two-guard spot for a few years.
No. I think you are rationalizing things after the fact to convince yourself of something that was not the perception at the time. This is revisionist.

Sure, realistically they were focused on development finally but they signed veterans to complement the youth in MCD and Forbes, and tried to at least put together a roster that made sense for them. I also remember Pop talking about how the additions were carefully selected, etc yada yada yada.

So bottom line, they didn't pass up on Duarte with some tank in mind. I think they really were impressed with Primo. We don't have to overthink that. Everything they said, even down to the perceived reach, the growth plates, the playmaking ability that wasn't showcased in college, the youth, etc pointed to what they hoped was a higher ceiling than Duarte bc Duarte is an older player that was close to his ceiling. It was a gamble that Primo would grow taller, stronger, and be better bc he was 18.

I am giving Primo time bc honestly whatever problems others find in him, to me the worst problem is him losing his shooting touch.

--------::::

For Timvp thanks for your honesty in sharing that tweet bc if he was in any other team, I don't think anyone here covets him.

Of course a wing like this current version of him would go on the second round if he can't shoot well. It's not like he's Giddey out there, shooting poorly but playmaking, getting to the rim, grabbing boards, etc. He's got nothing right now, no strengths on which to build up on, but some okay defense.

What he had was his shooting. So yea a guy who can't shoot nor playmake and is a TO machine with the ball, would go on the second round based on what we know now. He's got to get his shooting back, then he'll look at least like the player the Spurs thought they were drafting and he could go on from there.

--------------
and yea, I know many have said he's reworked his shot, so he's not hopeless. We are in wait and see mode.

FWIW I think he'll look great in summer league of his shot is back. I just hope that translates to the NBA when the season starts.

[Atl Spur]

Atl poster avoiding this thread

Hi:) how might I help you?

[Maddog]

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpg

Ouch, tbh :lol

Well
Yes
A lot of players in this years draft would be valued over him because they are still potential.
I will wait to see what happens in the next two years. I'm fairly certain there will be players drafted in the first round this year who will be marginal players at the end of 3 years.

[KingKev]

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpg

Ouch, tbh :lol

Damn. Thanks for that though.

[Chinook]

No. I think you are rationalizing things after the fact to convince yourself of something that was not the perception at the time. This is revisionist.

Sure, realistically they were focused on development finally but they signed veterans to complement the youth in MCD and Forbes, and tried to at least put together a roster that made sense for them. I also remember Pop talking about how the additions were carefully selected, etc yada yada yada.

So bottom line, they didn't pass up on Duarte with some tank in mind. I think they really were impressed with Primo. We don't have to overthink that. Everything they said, even down to the perceived reach, the growth plates, the playmaking ability that wasn't showcased in college, the youth, etc pointed to what they hoped was a higher ceiling than Duarte bc Duarte is an older player that was close to his ceiling. It was a gamble that Primo would grow taller, stronger, and be better bc he was 18.

I am giving Primo time bc honestly whatever problems others find in him, to me the worst problem is him losing his shooting touch.

I don't think the Spurs passed up on Duarte despite them thinking he was the better player. I believe the Spurs think Primo has the better developmental curve so that he's more likely to contribute more than Duarte is over two contracts. My question was if the Spurs knew Murray was going to be an All-Star, would they have prioritized a role-player in the draft like they did with Vassell rather than gambling on a developmental option. Would they have played the whole off-season differently?

I don't think they intended to win games. McDermott was signed to help the ball flow around White/Murray. Young was a better player than Eubanks, but the Spurs never tired to play him. When asked about it, he basically said the Spurs told him they were rebuilding and didn't think he was a fit for them at that stage. So as far as I can tell, Pop explicitly told Young that they weren't really trying to win, and that that affected how they were approaching team-building and their rotation. It's not a stretch to me that that applied to the draft as well.

I'm not worried about Primo. As I said, I don't think folks realize how much better he is than he was. He didn't look much like it, but he'll show it in the summer league. Just having these three months of uninterrupted development is going to pay huge dividends. I'm not saying that he would be a top-five pick if the Spurs were to have the chance to put him back in the draft. But I do think he'll perform better than most of the high picks do in the SL, despite being the same age as them.

[Ice009]

Well, that is not what I wanted to hear, but I would have wanted the truth, so thanks to that scout for giving his honest opinion. It's brutal, but I guess it needed to be heard. I also was wearing silver and black glasses, but deep down, I didn't really think he's a lottery pick. Maybe late first round at best.

[GAustex]

Hi:) how might I help you?
Fortune cookie man
Tell us more about the future

[KingKev]

Well, that is not what I wanted to hear, but I would have wanted the truth, so thanks to that scout for giving his honest opinion. It's brutal, but I guess it needed to be heard. I also was wearing silver and black glasses, but deep down, I didn't really think he's a lottery pick. Maybe late first round at best.

I’m one of his biggest naysayers but that is still just one’s scouts opinion. Rarely do the Spurs have a consensus view on prospects and they are appear to have a different criteria than most.

I don’t think anyone is arguing Primo is a bust but that the bar is pretty high for where he was taken to be justified and a year later it’s still pretty unclear.

I do enjoy seeing ST temper their expectations though. They were pretty damn lofty in the early days.

[Ice009]

I don't think he's trash or anything. I hope he becomes a very good player for the team. Like you said, it's still early, so we'll see where he's at. I feel it was a bit of a reach by the Spurs, but not sure who you guys would have picked at that spot instead, and the other question is, would Primo have still been on the table for the Spurs' next pick.

[rascal]

I don't think he's trash or anything. I hope he becomes a very good player for the team. Like you said, it's still early, so we'll see where he's at. I feel it was a bit of a reach by the Spurs, but not sure who you guys would have picked at that spot instead, and the other question is, would Primo have still been on the table for the Spurs' next pick.

I would have taken Moses Moody.

[Ariel]

Rarely do the Spurs have a consensus view on prospects and they are appear to have a different criteria than most.

I don’t think anyone is arguing Primo is a bust but that the bar is pretty high for where he was taken to be justified and a year later it’s still pretty unclear.
What bothers me the most, and where I see a lapse of judgment from the FO, is that there's an opportunity cost associated with drafting a project: there's the pick itself (which could get you a different player or you can turn it into a future pick... and yes there was that chance since Houston paid OKC 2 future firsts for no. 16), and there's ALSO the roster spot and playing time devoted to developing him, which you could use on someone else, which should not be dismissed.
So if you take a player who is 2/3 years down the road and use a lottery pick to do it, you DAMN BETTER be picking someone with a SKY HIGH ceiling. That's where I think the FO got it wrong to begin with. Other than that he's a Spur so I'm rooting for him to become as good as he can be, but I just hope the FO LEARNS from this, and don't use no. 9 on some 18 year old without some OBVIOUS freakishly good trait (athletic or skill wise).

[Chomag]

How is it wrong that we are holding Primo at high standards. Well Spurs did use their Lottery pick on him so shouldn't we be ?

[rascal]

I don't think he's trash or anything. I hope he becomes a very good player for the team. Like you said, it's still early, so we'll see where he's at. I feel it was a bit of a reach by the Spurs, but not sure who you guys would have picked at that spot instead, and the other question is, would Primo have still been on the table for the Spurs' next pick.

Maybe he would have been but if he wasn't so what, it isn't like Primo is something so special you can't miss out on him.

I just don't see what the FO saw in him that they thought they couldn't take a chance at losing him.

[KingKev]

Maybe he would have been but if he wasn't so what, it isn't like Primo is something so special you can't miss out on him.

I just don't see what the FO saw in him that they thought they couldn't take a chance at losing him.

Draft is a crap shoot so more wins than losses over the long term is the goal and make sure you keep your wins much bugger than your losses. Traditionally we have done that. These last 4 years we have been AVERAGE:

- Walker fell to us for a reason but made sense at the time so even 4 years later fair pick: C+
- Luka was a reach but an acceptable risk given we had another pick in the first. I understand taking a flier and understand why we cut him so soon but still: F
- Keldon at was a solid pick and we are lucky he fell to us: A
- Vassel was a fair pick at 12 and still early to have a strong view: B
- Primo, still very early but even if he becomes a solid role player 2-3 yrs out he was an absolute reach: C

[rascal]

Draft is a crap shoot so more wins than losses over the long term is the goal and make sure you keep your wins much bugger than your losses. Traditionally we have done that. These last 4 years we have been AVERAGE:

- Walker fell to us for a reason but made sense at the time so even 4 years later fair pick: C+
- Luka was a reach but an acceptable risk given we had another pick in the first. I understand taking a flier and understand why we cut him so soon but still: F
- Keldon at was a solid pick and we are lucky he fell to us: A
- Vassel was a fair pick at 12 and still early to have a strong view: B
- Primo, still very early but even if he becomes a solid role player 2-3 yrs out he was an absolute reach: C

I'd give Primo a D after his first season. And Walker no more than a C. The rest I agree on.

Grades can change but I'd grade on production of date from the picks so yes just about average for the fo.

[Atl Spur]

We will see…….

[slick'81]

We will see…….


what else can we do?

[spurraider21]

all the "he wasnt even supposed to be good until year 3" type stuff just sounds like samanic all over again :lol

this guy was a lottery pick, not some second round stash

[exstatic]

How is it wrong that we are holding Primo at high standards. Well Spurs did use their Lottery pick on him so shouldn't we be ?

He's
played
one
year

[K...]

all the "he wasnt even supposed to be good until year 3" type stuff just sounds like samanic all over again :lol

this guy was a lottery pick, not some second round stash

Sammie and lonnie are mental midgets. Primo is by all accounts savvy. The wait is to get stronger and rework the shooting. We have a crowded backcourt so he can't play big minutes or be a ball dominant project

[exstatic]

all the "he wasnt even supposed to be good until year 3" type stuff just sounds like samanic all over again :lol

this guy was a lottery pick, not some second round stash

You act like he was a top 3 pick. He was picked at TWELVE.

https://threesandlayups.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/all_star_plot.png

Look at the vertical line for #10. Move two dots to the right. It's sitting on the ZERO line. Twelve is not a hot spot for grabbing high end talent.

[spurraider21]

You act like he was a top 3 pick. He was picked at TWELVE.

https://threesandlayups.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/all_star_plot.png

Look at the vertical line for #10. Move two dots to the right. It's sitting on the ZERO line. Twelve is not a hot spot for grabbing high end talent.
i didnt say he has to become an all star to justify the pick

[K...]

i didnt say he has to become an all star to justify the pick

But the bust statistics are similar. You expect late lottery guys to bust. You may prefer a more mature role player vs a prospect but don't lash out on primo!

[Dex]

Sammie and lonnie are mental midgets. Primo is by all accounts savvy. The wait is to get stronger and rework the shooting. We have a crowded backcourt so he can't play big minutes or be a ball dominant project

That's why it could have been a mistake to not keep him in Austin.

While I know we all wanted to watch him play and see him compete against NBA competition (myself included), he only played 19 MPG and was usually like the 4th or 5th option. All it did was prove that maybe he wasn't quite ready for that. He averaged under six points and shot an 37.4% from the field.

In Austin, he could've been playing 30 minutes and have the ball in his hands a lot more.

I'm not on the bust bandwagon, but he definitely wasn't the rookie force that some people were expecting.

[Chinook]

That's why it could have been a mistake to not keep him in Austin.

While I know we all wanted to watch him play and see him compete against NBA competition (myself included), he only played 19 MPG and was usually like the 4th or 5th option. All it did was prove that maybe he wasn't quite ready for that. He averaged under six points and shot an 37.4% from the field.

In Austin, he could've been playing 30 minutes and have the ball in his hands a lot more.

I'm not on the bust bandwagon, but he definitely wasn't the rookie force that some people were expecting.

I don't think it's a defensible opinion that he was going to be any kind of force. It's a misrepresentation of the debate to suggest those who wanted Primo to not be in Austin believed that. Rather, those of us who wanted Josh in SA assumed he'd play exactly like he did, which is why I am not worried about his performance. I wouldn't feel any more confident if he had dominated the d-league. That's basically tissue paper. He was and is going to develop over time, over practices and off-season workouts. He's not going to level up like an RPG character by grinding on scrub enemies outside the first dungeon. It's not the way any of that works, and it doesn't surprise me that folks who didn't realize that are worried now.

Primo doesn't have to learn to be a star. IF he is talented enough to do that, it'll come in time. He needs to learn how to be an NBA player, and he's doing that just fine. A lot of people thought that if the Spurs drafted him at 12 when the media didn't have him on their radar, it had to be another Kawhi. That was never true. Even if they thought he was going to be a top-five pick had he stayed another year (and we don't know if he would have been -- he's very likely better than the large majority of the guys coming out this year), that doesn't mean they assumed he was going to be an instant sensation at the NBA level this year. They are going to pick a player at nine, and that guy very likely won't be star. At least one of the top five picks in this draft will be a JAG or worse, playing the odds. If Josh gets to a point where he locks down a top-seven job in the rotation for a couple of contracts, he's a good pick. Was he the best pick possible? I don't know. I've disagreed with PATFO many times before on that. But he'll be fine.

[RC_Drunkford]

Lol he‘ll be 23 in 2026 and you dudes are here panicking about a 19-year old? :lmao

[tonight...you]

I'm curious as to where you all would rank Primo among this year's 2 guards, purely valuing him as a prospect given what we know today, and sparing any sour grapes argument such as "he already knows the system" and such. I'm talking about an honest assessment of who's a better NBA prospect than him and who isn't from the perspective of a third party who could have a choice between them, regardless of whether he was a good pick or not last year. This year's class (partial list, obviously):
Jaden Ivey
Shaedon Sharpe
Dyson Daniels
Bennedict Mathurin
Johnny Davis
Malaki Branham
Blake Wesley
Ochai Agbaji
Bryce McGowens
Jaden Hardy
Jalen Williams
MarJon Beauchamp
Christian Braun
Terquavion Smith
Trevor Keels
Hard to say.
If he stayed in college and got more time and more attention to do more...
We could make a more appropriate evaluation.

Otherwise this is a false exercise.

[Ariel]

Hard to say.
If he stayed in college and got more time and more attention to do more...
We could make a more appropriate evaluation.

Otherwise this is a false exercise.
I didn't ask "where he'd be drafted in this class if he had stayed at Alabama", but where any third party would rank them given what we know today, which is a fair question because evaluations take place all the time and no 2 player's path is equal. Pretty easy to understand, provided you actually are not looking for a way out to spare you from looking at the facts.

[Atl Spur]

I’ll just let this be….I’m done talking to the wall:) Primo will be fine.

[Atl Spur]

Lol he‘ll be 23 in 2026 and you dudes are here panicking about a 19-year old? :lmao

These people reside in lala land!

[KingKev]

These people reside in lala land!

Thanks Zoltar.

[exstatic]

I didn't ask "where he'd be drafted in this class if he had stayed at Alabama", but where any third party would rank them given what we know today, which is a fair question because evaluations take place all the time and no 2 player's path is equal. Pretty easy to understand, provided you actually are not looking for a way out to spare you from looking at the facts.

That’s something you invented, then. The original thought was that, IF HE STAYED IN SCHOOL, he might have been a top 5 pick in this draft. You’re trying to compare his production against grown ass men in a league where he was LITERALLY the youngest player against performances by potential draftees against their peers. There are no 30 or 35 year olds in the NCAA. The overall level of athleticism is far lower. MOST of the players of even the elite teams in the NCAA tournament will be flipping purgers or selling mens clothing in a year or two.

[rascal]

Primo looks weak. His game lacks fire.

On Ariel's list,
as Primo looks now I would rank him.

He would be in the McGowens to Beauchamp tier, ahead of McGowens but behind Beauchamp.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/basketball/players-commitment-canada-basketball-olympics-1.6463969 (https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/basketball/players-commitment-canada-basketball-olympics-1.6463969)


Canada Senior men's national team summer core



Nickeil Alexander-Walker
R.J. Barrett
Khem Birch
Oshae Brissett
Dillon Brooks
Luguentz Dort
Zach Edey
Melvin Ejim
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Cory Joseph
Jamal Murray
Kelly Olynyk
Kevin Pangos
Dwight Powell



Should hopefully serve as motivation for Primo. Team is requiring a 3-year committment from its players.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'll be curious to see if he can improve his game because his metrics aren't good.

[jjspur]

Was Primo a reach at 12 ? Yeah I think he was - in the short term. Think of the players selected after him and then make a comparison before disagreeing. It didn't look all that good after one season. Consider this though, what spurs rookie not named Tim, David or even Kawhai has averaged over 6 points in their first season? Six points isn't much right now but that doesn't mean he won't get better next season and improve overall as well. I'll cut the kid some slack for another year. By then we should know if he was truly a reach. At that point we can cut our losses and say adios while looking towards the next draft.

Granted, there is no sure thing in the NBA draft, but If you can get a really solid player with an observable skillset, do it. Don't draft some other guy who might, maybe, possibly develop that skill some day. You'll be waiting a while for that and spurs fans aren't all that patient. So far I like the kid as a player, and with some more experience he can prove to us and the team that he really wasn't such a reach after all, unlike that entitled euro slacker Luka Sandwich.

I can hear the other GM's telling Pop he selected the wrong Luka --- just kidding Brian Wright probably made that poor selection.

[exstatic]

Was Primo a reach at 12 ? Yeah I think he was - in the short term. Think of the players selected after him and then make a comparison before disagreeing. It didn't look all that good after one season. Consider this though, what spurs rookie not named Tim, David or even Kawhai has averaged over 6 points in their first season? Six points isn't much right now but that doesn't mean he won't get better next season and improve overall as well. I'll cut the kid some slack for another year. By then we should know if he was truly a reach. At that point we can cut our losses and say adios while looking towards the next draft.

Granted, there is no sure thing in the NBA draft, but If you can get a really solid player with an observable skillset, do it. Don't draft some other guy who might, maybe, possibly develop that skill some day. You'll be waiting a while for that and spurs fans aren't all that patient. So far I like the kid as a player, and with some more experience he can prove to us and the team that he really wasn't such a reach after all, unlike that entitled euro slacker Luka Sandwich.

I can hear the other GM's telling Pop he selected the wrong Luka --- just kidding Brian Wright probably made that poor selection.

I think Luka was RC.

If you’re not at the top of the draft, there’s usually only two ways to go. You draft a more ready to go player, but one that is already pretty much topped out and developed, or you draft a wild card who might bust, be average, or be a star. Examples of the former are Clarke and Duarte. Examples of the latter would be Sammich or Primo. If you go the first route, you’re never going to get a franchise guy.

[Uriel]

Tbh, I would trust the judgment of the Spurs, arguably the best drafting team in the NBA, over that of a random scout.

They believe he will be a star.

[jjspur]

Tbh, I would trust the judgment of the Spurs, arguably the best drafting team in the NBA, over that of a random scout.

They believe he will be a star.

Coaches make mistakes, front offices make mistakes, scouts make mistakes , but like you said, the spurs are one of the best drafting teams in the NBA who typically keep their mistakes to a minimum. Time will tell, it always does and its usually not wrong. As spurs fans, we just have to put our faith in the spurs front office and hope for the best come draft day. As they say in school Make good choices, make good choices ! Time will tell, it always does.

[SAGirl]

Primo is featured on the Ja Morant dunk of the year

1532052776926289925

[spurraider21]

Lol he‘ll be 23 in 2026 and you dudes are here panicking about a 19-year old? :lmao
sounds like a luka samanic post from 2 years ago

im fine with taking a player who is supposed to be a long term project. im just not fine with that player being a lottery selection

[exstatic]

sounds like a luka samanic post from 2 years ago

im fine with taking a player who is supposed to be a long term project. im just not fine with that player being a lottery selection

Sammich would still be here if he weren’t allergic to getting back on D. His problem was never talent, it was attitude.

Outside of the top 3-4 picks, all lottery picks are projects.

[spurraider21]

Sammich would still be here if he weren’t allergic to getting back on D. His problem was never talent, it was attitude.

Outside of the top 3-4 picks, all lottery picks are projects.
not in the sense that they arent expected to be good until year 3-4

[Atl Spur]

Primo showed advanced moves this year that some of you choose to acknowledge. Primo will be fine……..

[exstatic]

not in the sense that they arent expected to be good until year 3-4

No one sees Primo as a 4 year project, and none of our post Duncan picks have showed out any earlier than year 3.

[spurraider21]

No one sees Primo as a 4 year project, and none of our post Duncan picks have showed out any earlier than year 3.
we havent exactly been getting regular lottery picks post-duncan, so thats not a great pool to look at. but even then, off the top of my head we have had guys like george hill, dejuan blair, kawhi, keldon all become positive contributors by their first or second seasons. probably missing a bunch as well

as to "nobody sees primo as a 4 year project" i had specifically responded to a post talking about how old he'd be in 2026 lol

[CGD]

Primo showed advanced moves this year that some of you choose to acknowledge. Primo will be fine……..

I agree, he’ll be fine. Also, folks should go back and look at the players drafted after him in the first round (a remember Buknight was drafted before him). I don’t see anything there to suggest they whiffed tbh. Maybe Duarte and 2nd rounder Jones, but one is old and NO ONE saw Jones.

[exstatic]

we havent exactly been getting regular lottery picks post-duncan, so thats not a great pool to look at. but even then, off the top of my head we have had guys like george hill, dejuan blair, kawhi, keldon all become positive contributors by their first or second seasons. probably missing a bunch as well

as to "nobody sees primo as a 4 year project" i had specifically responded to a post talking about how old he'd be in 2026 lol

A) we’re talking post Duncan. Not sure about you.
B) the 2026 thing was an obvious joke. I think he even used an emoji.

Lighten up, and show a little patience.

[GAustex]

Some scout says he’d go in the second round if he was in this years draft
Brilliant move by pop
And I ain’t got nothing agin the kid

[KingKev]

Primo showed advanced moves this year that some of you choose to acknowledge. Primo will be fine……..

“Inflation is just a temporary phenomenon. Rising rates won’t hurt anyone. The economy will be fine.”

-ATL Spur

[BackHome]

lol

[Chinook]

we havent exactly been getting regular lottery picks post-duncan, so thats not a great pool to look at. but even then, off the top of my head we have had guys like george hill, dejuan blair, kawhi, keldon all become positive contributors by their first or second seasons. probably missing a bunch as well

as to "nobody sees primo as a 4 year project" i had specifically responded to a post talking about how old he'd be in 2026 lol

He's talking about since Duncan retired. Keldon is still a negative player. He had a good stretch in the bubble where he shot insanely from three, but his D is still overwhelming his offense right now.

White's the only draft pick since Tim retired that's been good before year three. To some extent, it's normal for young players to not be positive contributors even when they're playing well. Look at Ja. I think looking at most stats isn't going to tell you if Primo played well. I thought he was some straight shooting from being the best true rookie the Spurs have had in a long time. People who didn't want him in the d-league weren't expecting him to dominate or even be a high option on the Spurs. That's not why we wanted him there. He was supposed to struggle, learn and adjust. That learning curve and him having his realistic assignment to play in will help him way more than him dribbling against has-beens and never-weres in Austin. He knows what he really has to work on and where he really has to be physically to hang. Hopefully, he'll spend the summer working on shooting threes rather than learning to shoot midrange shots like most of the last few picks have done.

[Atl Spur]

“Inflation is just a temporary phenomenon. Rising rates won’t hurt anyone. The economy will be fine.”

-ATL Spur

You betcha:)

[objective]

Jalen Williams is already the player that Spurs fans imagine Primo could eventually turn into, and he might slide out of the lottery.

Primo is just too slow and ground bound.

Knowing everything we know now, in this draft I think Primo is still a first rounder with his size. Maybe late first.

[heyheymymy]

I seem to recall a pretty impressive summer league showing for Primo which may explain the high expectations but I agree he looks like he hit a rookie wall.

[KingKev]

Primo is featured on the Ja Morant dunk of the year

1532052776926289925

Haha I wonder if Ja Morant even knows who Primo is.

[offset formation]

A) we’re talking post Duncan. Not sure about you.
B) the 2026 thing was an obvious joke. I think he even used an emoji.

Lighten up, and show a little patience.

Unless he develops a skill at his age very few ppl ever do, then he's capped at being a shooter for us. Which we need desperately. But it doesn't take away that he was a reach.

[offset formation]

Haha I wonder if Ja Morant even knows who Primo is.

Unlikely. But Primo knows everything about Ja, including the specific whiff of his ass as he flew past him as though he wasn't even there.

[duncan2150]

Some scout says he’d go in the second round if he was in this years draft
Brilliant move by pop
And I ain’t got nothing agin the kid

Wich scouts lol ? that doesn't make any sense since he would have been in NCAA and you never know what could happen ...

Not sold on him actually but he's far from being a samanic type of player ( lazy, no motor...).

[exstatic]

Unless he develops a skill at his age very few ppl ever do, then he's capped at being a shooter for us. Which we need desperately. But it doesn't take away that he was a reach.

He’s the only player on our roster with a reverse crossover step back three pointer. That’s a valuable skill in today’s NBA, the ability to create your own three pointer.

Of course he was a reach. It’s something the Spurs are going to have to do over and over until they hit one. The more clarity you have on a late lottery pick, the less likely they are to become a star. If that clarity says Star, they’re going in the first few picks. Otherwise, you likely have a nice support player. We have those already.

[Uriel]

The Spurs front office still believes Primo will be a star. We ought believe them because they’re the best front office in the NBA.

[John B]

Bunch of bitches who nags on their boyfriends. Primo is a 2-3 years project who was a swing-over-the-fence type of pick. Yes he makes rookie mistakes but Primo is never rattled easily, and that’s plenty for his age. I think he has the mental toughness and bball IQ, the physique to be a great player. I’m excited to see what he brings this Summer.

[GAustex]

Wich scouts lol ? that doesn't make any sense since he would have been in NCAA and you never know what could happen ...

Not sold on him actually but he's far from being a samanic type of player ( lazy, no motor...).
Mr. Ellis posted a twit or something in a thread here or in another draft thread

[CGD]

Unless he develops a skill at his age very few ppl ever do, then he's capped at being a shooter for us. Which we need desperately. But it doesn't take away that he was a reach.

I disagree. I see him turning into a more confident version of Derrick White with a better shot. He showed some great defensive flashes and court vision. That is a hell of a player, and frankly one that has the potential to take over the reigns if/when DJM moves on from SA.

[GAustex]

Wich scouts lol ? that doesn't make any sense since he would have been in NCAA and you never know what could happen ...

Not sold on him actually but he's far from being a samanic type of player ( lazy, no motor...).

Two weeks ago on page 4
See Mr Ellis post

[SAGirl]

Haha I wonder if Ja Morant even knows who Primo is.
It looked like one of those: “Welcome to the grown men league rookie” — moments.

[SAGirl]

Unlikely. But Primo knows everything about Ja, including the specific whiff of his ass as he flew past him as though he wasn't even there.
That is what caught my eye, as if he wasn’t even there.

[duncan2150]

Two weeks ago on page 4
See Mr Ellis post

again without seeing the post, imo that doesn't make any sense. Primo did not play with bama so nobody knows what his season would have been in NCAA....

it's pure speculation in my opinion

[rankingtear]

Primo actually tested well in agility and vert in the combine. You can see it on his defense. Offensively it is harder to eye test because the ball handling and strength is not there yet. He is not slow and ground bound.

[GAustex]

again without seeing the post, imo that doesn't make any sense. Primo did not play with bama so nobody knows what his season would have been in NCAA....

it's pure speculation in my opinion
Yep speculation according to an expert in the field
Not u some sort of jackwagon

[Chomag]

Primo actually tested well in agility and vert in the combine. You can see it on his defense. Offensively it is harder to eye test because the ball handling and strength is not there yet. He is not slow and ground bound.

I don't think anyone is saying he his slow but his quickness is what seems to be in question. There is a big difference between speed and quickness.

[Chinook]

Mr. Ellis

:vomit:

But yeah, timvp posted a text conversation with a scout who directly said he thought Primo would be a second-rounder right now. The scout is supposedly employed be an NBA team, but we don't know how well their insight tracks with reality.

[rascal]

Haha I wonder if Ja Morant even knows who Primo is.

Poeltl with no vertical lift.

[duncan2150]

Yep speculation according to an expert in the field
Not u some sort of jackwagon

Ok if you have a better argument you're welcome lool

[John B]

:vomit:

But yeah, timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) posted a text conversation with a scout who directly said he thought Primo would be a second-rounder right now. The scout is supposedly employed be an NBA team, but we don't know how well their insight tracks with reality.

I trust more ST posters who actually watch every single Spurs game (and Austin) than any NBA scouts tbh

[R. DeMurre]

Primo actually tested well in agility and vert in the combine. You can see it on his defense. Offensively it is harder to eye test because the ball handling and strength is not there yet. He is not slow and ground bound.

Primo had a pretty good lane agility time, but not elite at all. He finished near the bottom in the shuttle run and 3/4 sprint.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility/?SeasonYear=2021-22&sort=LANE_AGILITY_TIME&dir=-1

[offset formation]

He’s the only player on our roster with a reverse crossover step back three pointer. That’s a valuable skill in today’s NBA, the ability to create your own three pointer.

Of course he was a reach. It’s something the Spurs are going to have to do over and over until they hit one. The more clarity you have on a late lottery pick, the less likely they are to become a star. If that clarity says Star, they’re going in the first few picks. Otherwise, you likely have a nice support player. We have those already.

Yes, I agree on most of this. But I really wish they had seen he was likely going to be limited to a perimeter and likely midrange game. For a reach like that you want a player that isn't limited getting to the hole, ESPECIALLY if the plan is for him to be a ball handler. Now that may change some in year 2, but that were clearly trying to make him a 2 guard, if not a 1, at minimum.

[rascal]

Ogbaji is better than Primo.

Kansas doesn't win if Primo was exchanged with Ogbaji in the tournament.

[offset formation]

I disagree. I see him turning into a more confident version of Derrick White with a better shot. He showed some great defensive flashes and court vision. That is a hell of a player, and frankly one that has the potential to take over the reigns if/when DJM moves on from SA.

Kindly show me the game tape where he beat a single one of his defenders to the rack (when not on a put back or a close out). If you want him to replace DJ, then youre saying he's a point guard. Does any other team have a starting point guard that doesn’t at least occasionally beat his man (besides 38 yr old, but still very crafty Chris Paul)?

No man. He's not a guard, point or shooting. He's a wing player. And he might just turn into one hell of a wing player and if his handles and explosiveness improve by a wide margin, maybe a shooting guard down the road. But he'll never by a DJ replacement.

[objective]

I don't think anyone is saying he his slow but his quickness is what seems to be in question. There is a big difference between speed and quickness.

I'm saying he's slow, he was referencing my post.

And he's slow with the ball, or rather, can't get a step on defenders most of the time without a pick, he just gets stood up. If he doesn't start with an advantage it's hard for him. And I definitely don't like his lack of vertical pop. He had a few open dunks where he stretches out and still nearly catches rim, but other than the odd reverse coming in from the corner, I don't think he's an impactful athlete in the half court. Maybe he'll sort out whatever he needs to with his lower body and look great

[John B]

I'm saying he's slow, he was referencing my post.

And he's slow with the ball, or rather, can't get a step on defenders most of the time without a pick, he just gets stood up. If he doesn't start with an advantage it's hard for him. And I definitely don't like his lack of vertical pop. He had a few open dunks where he stretches out and still nearly catches rim, but other than the odd reverse coming in from the corner, I don't think he's an impactful athlete in the half court. Maybe he'll sort out whatever he needs to with his lower body and look great

Primo is a combo/guard who can occasionally facilitate. He’s not going to blow by his defender, but I can see him backing down and overpowering his defender, similar to Demar which who I think Pop is trying to pattern his game imo.

[BatManu20]

Ogbaji is better than Primo.

Kansas doesn't win if Primo was exchanged with Ogbaji in the tournament.

Ogbaji is 3 years older than Primo.

[rascal]

Ogbaji is 3 years older than Primo.

I don't care about that. He's better

[duncan2150]

I don't care about that. He's better

I Hope he is after four years in NCAA... Agbaji ceilling is really good role player but not more imo

[RC_Drunkford]

I find it funny that people are panicking about a pick who's younger than most draft picks in this years draft and just played his first NBA season. Like what exactly do you expect? He played pretty decent defense and got the start at the end of the season. If he can improve offensively especially on his shooting he's on a good trajectory and as the other poster here said aside from Jones and Duarte there weren't any other players picked after Primo that I look and say "wow, why did we miss out on this guy?"

[rascal]

I Hope he is after four years in NCAA... Agbaji ceilling is really good role player but not more imo

That's Primo's ceiling. He'd wish to be as good as Agbaji is now.

Primo doesn't have the athleticism to be anything more. He is slow without burst and doesn't have a good vertical lift.

[Ignazzz]

Please dont panic. Remember 1st season of KB or Dirk

[Ariel]

Please dont panic. Remember 1st season of KB or Dirk
The legendary Jerry West told Shaq he had drafted a kid with whom he'd go on to win multiple championships, before Kobe stepped foot on an NBA court. So let's not compare apples with oranges, shall we?

[Atl Spur]

Rascal ……….slow down kind sir. Primo will be cool.

[KingKev]

He’s the only player on our roster with a reverse crossover step back three pointer. That’s a valuable skill in today’s NBA, the ability to create your own three pointer.

Of course he was a reach. It’s something the Spurs are going to have to do over and over until they hit one. The more clarity you have on a late lottery pick, the less likely they are to become a star. If that clarity says Star, they’re going
in the first few picks. Otherwise, you likely have a nice support player. We have those already.

hahah you remind me of Jim’s gf in American Pie. This one time at bandcamp Joshua Primo hit a step back 3.

[CGD]

Kindly show me the game tape where he beat a single one of his defenders to the rack (when not on a put back or a close out). If you want him to replace DJ, then youre saying he's a point guard. Does any other team have a starting point guard that doesn’t at least occasionally beat his man (besides 38 yr old, but still very crafty Chris Paul)?

No man. He's not a guard, point or shooting. He's a wing player. And he might just turn into one hell of a wing player and if his handles and explosiveness improve by a wide margin, maybe a shooting guard down the road. But he'll never by a DJ replacement.

I don’t recall White being explosive or a high flier. Nor was he the finished product he is now, even having 4 years of college. Derrick was our best facilitator despite not being a traditional PG, so much so that many here were calling for him over DJM.

Bottomline: He’s 19. Let’s check in during year 3 which is when our young guys take the jump.

[exstatic]

The legendary Jerry West told Shaq he had drafted a kid with whom he'd go on to win multiple championships, before Kobe stepped foot on an NBA court. So let's not compare apples with oranges, shall we?

He was still pretty awful as a rookie, especially in the playoffs.

[offset formation]

He was still pretty awful as a rookie, especially in the playoffs.

Fact. Also a fact: He was undeniably athletic as shit.

[KingKev]

The Spurs front office still believes Primo will be a star. We ought believe them because they’re the best front office in the NBA.

They aren’t even a top 5 front office currently. This trade deadline was the first sign of competence we’ve seen in the last 5 years.

[exstatic]

Fact. Also a fact: He was undeniably athletic as shit.

He never really struck me as über athletic, so, lacking any kind of combine measures, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

[Dex]

We all agreed when he was drafted that he was a project player. 18 years old (at the time), played one slightly limited year of college ball, showed a lot of potential but also that he had a lot of work to do.

We seem to be on that same trajectory, so not sure why anyone is surprised after his first season. He showed some good things, but both his body and his game needs to mature.

Spent some time in the GLeague, actually got to play with the big club and even started some games. Sure, the results weren't always pretty but at least he was getting his chances. Sure, it would've been great if he automatically looked like the next Kobe or Manu...but that was never realistic.

I'm not at all worried about Primo right now. If he hasn't leveled up by the end of year 3, then I'll change my tune.

[dbestpro]

Our best hope is Primo will develop enough to one day be part of a trade that brings in one of the guys that will make the Spurs a successful playoff team once, again.

[The Truth #6]

I think the gut reaction from when we first picked him was confusion and anger. And then as Spurs fans we rapidly cycled through Kubler Ross's 5 Stages of Grief and accepted that this is who we have and have to make the best of it, then we understandably latched on to whatever glimmers of hope we could find. As Spurs fans we are going to try and find some hope with whatever player we draft until it's obvious the ship has sailed. The ship hasn't sailed yet, so to speak, for Primo so a lot is still possible. But his physical limitations are a big difference from prior young picks, especially Kobe, since his name gets thrown around a lot. Kobe was a fantastic athlete. Primo is not that. He can still make tremendous growth, but it's going to be make it harder without great athleticism that other young, raw prospects possessed.

To me, it throws the whole drafting philosophy into question, for the NBA, really. I still think you need enough information to feel confident drafting any player so high. Put another way, at a certain point I have more faith in a 23 year old Agbaji then a barely 18 year old Primo. Also, I wouldn't draft either at #10, or whatever it was.

But hey, it's a crapshoot. Primo looks like he will fit in with the SA mindset and expectations at least, whereas Sammich and Walker never did rise up to the challenge.

[exstatic]

I think the gut reaction from when we first picked him was confusion and anger. And then as Spurs fans we rapidly cycled through Kubler Ross's 5 Stages of Grief and accepted that this is who we have and have to make the best of it, then we understandably latched on to whatever glimmers of hope we could find. As Spurs fans we are going to try and find some hope with whatever player we draft until it's obvious the ship has sailed. The ship hasn't sailed yet, so to speak, for Primo so a lot is still possible. But his physical limitations are a big difference from prior young picks, especially Kobe, since his name gets thrown around a lot. Kobe was a fantastic athlete. Primo is not that. He can still make tremendous growth, but it's going to be make it harder without great athleticism that other young, raw prospects possessed.

To me, it throws the whole drafting philosophy into question, for the NBA, really. I still think you need enough information to feel confident drafting any player so high. Put another way, at a certain point I have more faith in a 23 year old Agbaji then a barely 18 year old Primo. Also, I wouldn't draft either at #10, or whatever it was.

But hey, it's a crapshoot. Primo looks like he will fit in with the SA mindset and expectations at least, whereas Sammich and Walker never did rise up to the challenge.

23 YO Agbaji has been beating up on 18 and 19 YOs and taking their lunch money for at least 2 years. He’s a mirage.

[Atl Spur]

Primo has a killer instinct & confidence rarely exhibited by an 18/19 year old. The kid will make a jump this year I’m thinking:)

[Atl Spur]

They aren’t even a top 5 front office currently. This trade deadline was the first sign of competence we’ve seen in the last 5 years.

Really?

[jjspur]

The problem with Primo isn't really a player problem yet...but maybe of a bit of a perception problem. During our decades of of the big 3, all we ever drafted were players at the end of the draft. Nobody expected them to be great players but we did draft and develop a few all stars (eParker & ginobilli) and lots of decent high level role players, one even playing in or current championship game. As our big 3 retired and our draft pick position got better, the thinking was we are going to draft even better players.
Maybe it was our expectation that a person drafted 12th should be better than someone drafted in the mid to late 20's. Sounds logical enough, but as we all know there have been many many busts drafted very early and pretty damn good players that were overlooked and drafted quite late.
The point I'm trying to make is that all our rookies not named Duncan or Robinson both drafted #1, easily got at least a year or more to develop because they weren't lottery picks. Now that we are drafting in the lottery, maybe our expectations are that they should develop quicker or at least as much as our later picks....seems logical. Either way lets give the kid one more year to see if he develops incrementally much like Derrek White, DeJounte, Vassell and Keldon did. If he does great, if he doesn't, that's something the spurs coaching will have to seriously deal with. I certainly don't put him in the same category as Luka Sammich - that lazy euro slacker, but he should know that after one more season or so, the clock will be ticking on him no matter how young or talented he is or isn't. That is just a fair logical expectation from a team that was always used to winning with late drafted talent, but not so much with lottery level talent. Time will tell one way or the other, it always does.

[toki9]

From an article in the Athletic about possibilities of the Knicks moving up via the Spurs—and it briefly mentioned Spurs’ last 2 picks. Posting it since someone asked about non-fan perspective of him. I have no idea how to judge something like this myself.

“Josh Primo, who many scouts think would be a top-seven level talent in this year’s draft, showed real improvement in the last quarter of the season.”

[R. DeMurre]

I was curious what a non-Spurs fan thought so I texted a scout employed by an NBA team who watched Primo in person both in G League and in the NBA . . .

https://i.imgur.com/vNxG549.jpg

Ouch, tbh :lol


From an article in the Athletic about possibilities of the Knicks moving up via the Spurs—and it briefly mentioned Spurs’ last 2 picks. Posting it since someone asked about non-fan perspective of him. I have no idea how to judge something like this myself.

“Josh Primo, who many scouts think would be a top-seven level talent in this year’s draft, showed real improvement in the last quarter of the season.”


I guess this could be a good debate topic. If Portland calls and offers the 7th pick straight up for Primo, or New Orleans offers the same for the 8th... do you take it?

[Ignazzz]

5th pick for drafting Murray easy. Later … no

[MannyIsGod]

I mean I would 100% take a 7th or 8th pick straight up for Primo. I can't imagine any team is going to do that and I don't trust that report at all. Primo showed some good things in his first season and he's young, but I think his value is nowhere near top 10 in the draft.

[rascal]

I guess this could be a good debate topic. If Portland calls and offers the 7th pick straight up for Primo, or New Orleans offers the same for the 8th... do you take it?

The 7th pick will get you Sharpe, Mathurin or Murray so yes.

[Seventyniner]

There's probably some endowment effect...effect here too. For example, I think both sides say no to a Primo swap for a pick in the teens.

[Ariel]

I guess this could be a good debate topic. If Portland calls and offers the 7th pick straight up for Primo, or New Orleans offers the same for the 8th... do you take it?
Anyone who doesn't has fallen for the sunk cost fallacy. That or hard drugs... maybe both.

[3&D_TBH]

I guess this could be a good debate topic. If Portland calls and offers the 7th pick straight up for Primo, or New Orleans offers the same for the 8th... do you take it?

I like Primo but I would most def trade him for the 7th or 8th. Ben Mathurin is already better than Primo. Do it. That would ease the pressure on taking a defensive minded forward like Sochan with the 9th.

[SAGirl]

Hes just really young, honestly still developing and we are in the middle of summer and tired of talking about the same draft picks, which honestly I don't even want to invest myself on anyone in particular because I'd rather avoid disappointment if the team goes a different direction from a favorite.

My real only disappointment is that he didn't shoot well and I think that was the one thing he had in his game that he could do competently to start with, but it's something he can work on in the summer and hopefully get that back and go from there. Honestly too young still to be too critical.

I am more excited to see him play well in summer league to see his shot come back, keeping in mind that any kind of performance there is still not fully reflective of what he will be in the season but it will be nice to see how his shot is coming along.

[objective]

From an article in the Athletic about possibilities of the Knicks moving up via the Spurs—and it briefly mentioned Spurs’ last 2 picks. Posting it since someone asked about non-fan perspective of him. I have no idea how to judge something like this myself.

“Josh Primo, who many scouts think would be a top-seven level talent in this year’s draft, showed real improvement in the last quarter of the season.”

I've found that at least among the media scouts and enthusiast draft twitterati who have podcasts and internet clout, that when they talk about Primo it's obvious that they didn't watch him much during his Spurs minutes and just extrapolate wildly.

There was one podcast I was listening to talking about the Spurs for the upcoming draft and they talked about Primo being this great athlete and an attack the rim guy or something and I about fell over

I think Vecenie had a 2021 redraft show and had him 10, but still behind Sengun.

[Atl Spur]

People we have bigger problems than Primo��

[John B]

Primo is a 2-3 year project with hopes of a big upside. In 3 years with Spurs regimen, Spurs get a polished 20 yr old player. He’s shown flashes and does not get rattled. Spurs on a right track here.

But with this draft, I don’t think they get too raw. I think they have a chance to get solid players at 9 (hopefully Davis), and trade up either 20 or 25 with Poeltl (or whoever) to get another lottery pick like Eason. Two solid lottery picks would be great. With Murray/Keldon/Vassell making big strides on their development, a credible FA signing hopefully, Spurs will be better this year and possibly contend the earliest next year if things pan out.

I think Primo’s development is inline, while not as mezmerizing to some.

[rascal]

23 YO Agbaji has been beating up on 18 and 19 YOs and taking their lunch money for at least 2 years. He’s a mirage.

Agbaji is 22, wasn't 22 until after the season. He's two years and 4 months older than Primo.

Agbaji has a better vertical jump than Primo, more athletic, just better overall.

[exstatic]

Agbaji is 22, wasn't 22 until after the season. He's two years and 4 months older than Primo.

Agbaji has a better vertical jump than Primo, more athletic, just better overall.

Lonnie has a better vertical and wingspan, and he’s a bust.

Athleticism by itself is nothing.

[rascal]

Lonnie has a better vertical and wingspan, and he’s a bust.

Athleticism by itself is nothing.

Agbaji is better than Walker. Agbaji is a winner.

[offset formation]

Primo has a killer instinct & confidence rarely exhibited by an 18/19 year old. The kid will make a jump this year I’m thinking:)

You guys family?

[wildbill2u]

Primo showed me more on the defensive end than as a shooter which is unusual for a rookie IMO. Especially when his skillset was supposed to be as a shooter.

Does anyone know the story on his missing shooting this year? Maybe they are trying to change his mechanics and it got him screwed up???

I caan't imagine anyone giving us a lottery draft pick for him in a trade, certainly not straight up so the other details of the trade such as another player, draft picks added, etc. would be the controlling factor(s). But he is not on an untouchable list of tradeable players IMO

[The Truth #6]

I feel safe saying that no one is offering us anything for Josh Primo, nor are we putting him on the table. I guess you can say he's fine in a vacuum, but neither he nor the others (excluding DJM) have shown enough to say we shouldn't draft another guard (in the hopes they can score), and so in that context, we very well may need to use our top pick on a guard, only adding further to the glut. So it's great, I guess, that he's so young and has so much room to grow, but unless Wright starts figuring out the roster and moving pieces around, then we will continue to be a jumbled, Frankenstein of a team. The Spurs don't like to rush, but if they continue in this direction, it could quickly become only a bigger headache.

[exstatic]

Primo showed me more on the defensive end than as a shooter which is unusual for a rookie IMO. Especially when his skillset was supposed to be as a shooter.

Does anyone know the story on his missing shooting this year? Maybe they are trying to change his mechanics and it got him screwed up???

I caan't imagine anyone giving us a lottery draft pick for him in a trade, certainly not straight up so the other details of the trade such as another player, draft picks added, etc. would be the controlling factor(s). But he is not on an untouchable list of tradeable players IMO

He had a funny one foot landing that actually injured him early in the season. I guess they figured that a non role rookie could have his shot reworked during the season. Didn’t go so well. Hopefully in the off-season, he can get it reworked.

[Atl Spur]

You guys family?

Nah, I just deal in factual information. It’s not rocket science……

[widowmaker]

I hope they have him training 1 on 1 with Manu over the summer.

[GAustex]

Nah, I just deal in factual information. It’s not rocket science……
Miss Cleo here is full of provocative foresight.

I like the kid; seems an OK chap.

Thick legged kid-hope he can keep the weight off

Just not a lotto pick. The drunk asshole owns this one too.

Tell me Miss Cleo who wins the Preakness?

[KingKev]

From an article in the Athletic about possibilities of the Knicks moving up via the Spurs—and it briefly mentioned Spurs’ last 2 picks. Posting it since someone asked about non-fan perspective of him. I have no idea how to judge something like this myself.

“Josh Primo, who many scouts think would be a top-seven level talent in this year’s draft, showed real improvement in the last quarter of the season.”

hahaha he showed NOTHING when given NBA minutes to end the season. NOTHING.

[KingKev]

I guess this could be a good debate topic. If Portland calls and offers the 7th pick straight up for Primo, or New Orleans offers the same for the 8th... do you take it?

Of course you do but no one is that stupid to trade a top 10 pick for Primo.

Like it or not we are fully invested in Joshua Primo. He was a reach at the time and 1yr later remains a reach. He has zero trade value so you might as well give him an extended opportunity to prove himself.

[rascal]

Of course you do but no one is that stupid to trade a top 10 pick for Primo.

Like it or not we are fully invested in Joshua Primo. He was a reach at the time and 1yr later remains a reach. He has zero trade value so you might as well give him an extended opportunity to prove himself.

Agree, The Spurs are invested in at least a three year plan with Primo. He has little to no trade value now.
The Spurs can't continue filling the roster with Primo type of players.

They need to get a sure fire contributor with the 9th pick not a three year project.

[GAustex]

This team needs help
It would have been nice to get a sure fire contributor with last year’s LOTTO pick.

[mo7888]

Agree, The Spurs are invested in at least a three year plan with Primo. He has little to no trade value now.
The Spurs can't continue filling the roster with Primo type of players.

They need to get a sure fire contributor with the 9th pick not a three year project.

Yet you argue for Sharpe.. he's going to take at least a couple years to contribute. Don't get me wrong, I like Sharpe and have him #7 on my BB even though he seems to be falling on most other boards out there but, he's certainly not a 'sure fire contributor'.

[rascal]

Yet you argue for Sharpe.. he's going to take at least a couple years to contribute. Don't get me wrong, I like Sharpe and have him #7 on my BB even though he seems to be falling on most other boards out there but, he's certainly not a 'sure fire contributor'.


Primo doesn't have the skills that Sharpe has.

I'd give Sharpe one year and he would be better than Primo even in his first year.

Sharpe is a can't miss prospect, Primo isn't.
Sharpe will need to get into game shape because he hasn't played but he will pass Primo quickly in development.

Primo is still unknown if he will ever develop into anything more than a role player even after his first year. Primo is like a child coming into the league.
Sharpe is more like Duren in development, looks much bigger.

[exstatic]

Primo doesn't have the skills that Sharpe has.

I'd give Sharpe one year and he would be better than Primo even in his first year.

Sharpe is a can't miss prospect, Primo isn't.
Sharpe will need to get into game shape because he hasn't played but he will pass Primo quickly in development.

Primo is still unknown if he will ever develop into anything more than a role player even after his first year. Primo is like a child coming into the league.
Sharpe is more like Duren in development, looks much bigger.

If sharpe were a can’t miss, he’d be in the top 3. He’s way more of an unknown quantity and risk than Primo was, never playing NCAA ball. He just generated a ton of buzz by enrolling at UK.

[rascal]

If sharpe were a can’t miss, he’d be in the top 3. He’s way more of an unknown quantity and risk than Primo was, never playing NCAA ball. He just generated a ton of buzz by enrolling at UK.

No way, you're wrong. Sharpe is not more of risk. We still aren't even sure Primo will develop into an elite offensive player even after one year.
Primo doesn't look as good skill wise.

So you would not trade Primo for Sharpe straight up because Sharpe is more of a risk?

[mo7888]

Primo doesn't have the skills that Sharpe has.

I'd give Sharpe one year and he would be better than Primo even in his first year.

Sharpe is a can't miss prospect, Primo isn't.
Sharpe will need to get into game shape because he hasn't played but he will pass Primo quickly in development.

Primo is still unknown if he will ever develop into anything more than a role player even after his first year. Primo is like a child coming into the league.
Sharpe is more like Duren in development, looks much bigger.

There are alot of outstanding questions about Primo but, Sharpe isn't close to a 'can't miss'. He's a high reward/ high risk player....lots of boom and bust potential there.

[rascal]

There are alot of outstanding questions about Primo but, Sharpe isn't close to a 'can't miss'. He's a high reward/ high risk player....lots of boom and bust potential there.

So Primo for Sharpe you doing it?

[mo7888]

So Primo for Sharpe you doing it?

Yup...I have Sharpe as the #7 player in the draft...and yes, I'd trade Primo for #7... but I realize I'm swinging for the fences with Sharpe...if he pans out he could be special but, it's a question if he'll pan out...I'm willing to take that risk because Sharpe has a higher ceiling than Primo with a lower floor...

[rascal]

Yup...I have Sharpe as the #7 player in the draft...and yes, I'd trade Primo for #7... but I realize I'm swinging for the fences with Sharpe...if he pans out he could be special but, it's a question if he'll pan out...I'm willing to take that risk because Sharpe has a higher ceiling than Primo with a lower floor...

That's a smart move.

I don't see Sharpe as a bust unless he gets a big injury but that could happen to anyone.

There is enough tape on Sharpe where you can see he has the skills to be an elite scorer.
There is just far more uncertainty if Primo can develop his game into anything special.

[John B]

While I agree with Primo’s draft last year in hindsight, I can’t do the same with Sharpe. Sure he’s a big risk, high reward and has star quality. But with Murray 2 years away from possible max contract, Keldon likewise getting paid in 2 years, Spurs need to see where they stand, and not role a dice on another project. I like Sharpe’s potential. But that’s all he is right now, a big potential. Admitedly I wouldn’t be too dissappointed with the pick, but right now I’m going for: Davis, Daniels, Mathurin before Sharpe at 9, knowing that I could get an Eason/Sochan later.

[CGD]

That's a smart move.

I don't see Sharpe as a bust unless he gets a big injury but that could happen to anyone.

There is enough tape on Sharpe where you can see he has the skills to be an elite scorer.
There is just far more uncertainty if Primo can develop his game into anything special.

With all due respect, what videos are you taking about exactly? The 1-on-1 stuff is highly choreographed, the high school stuff is against, well, high schoolers, etc., etc. The point is he's a mystery even to people who are paid lots of money to evaluate talent, not just those of us here with YouTube access.

You could well be right that he pans out to be awesome, but it wont be because you or anyone here had some advanced analysis of the presently available info out there on him. On swapping Primo: I probably keep Primo, but I'm still high on him unlike most on this board.

[rascal]

With all due respect, what videos are you taking about exactly? The 1-on-1 stuff is highly choreographed, the high school stuff is against, well, high schoolers, etc., etc. The point is he's a mystery even to people who are paid lots of money to evaluate talent, not just those of us here with YouTube access.

You could well be right that he pans out to be awesome, but it wont be because you or anyone here had some advanced analysis of the presently available info out there on him. On swapping Primo: I probably keep Primo, but I'm still high on him unlike most on this board.

I have a better eye for talent than you do if you would rather have Primo. Most GMs would take Sharpe over Primo.

Time will tell and we can revisit this in a couple of years.

[Atl Spur]

I have a better eye for talent than you do if you would rather have Primo. Most GMs would take Sharpe over Primo.

Time will tell and we can revisit this in a couple of years.

Hopefully primo does a big jump this year.

[John B]

Hopefully primo does a big jump this year.

ST Posters would be eating crows

[rascal]

ST Posters would be eating crows

I'm expecting an improvement in Primo. He can eventually reach a level of a solid starter as his ceiling but the Spurs need to add an all star somewhere and another player who is a franchise level player if they want to get back to being contenders again.

If the roster is locked up with a bunch of role player quality starters they will continue being a mid level team.

[toki9]

I'm expecting an improvement in Primo. He can eventually reach a level of a solid starter as his ceiling but the Spurs need to add an all star somewhere and another player who is a franchise level player if they want to get back to being contenders again.

If the roster is locked up with a bunch of role player quality starters they will continue being a mid level team.

so are you disappointed in Primo because you don’t think he’s an all-star possibility? I believe the last 12th pick to make the All-Star team was Mookie Blaylock, who was picked in1989. If Primo can become a “solid starter”, as you surmise, then that’s a pretty good outcome.

[John B]

I'm expecting an improvement in Primo. He can eventually reach a level of a solid starter as his ceiling but the Spurs need to add an all star somewhere and another player who is a franchise level player if they want to get back to being contenders again.

If the roster is locked up with a bunch of role player quality starters they will continue being a mid level team.

The PATFO has a real opportunity to make noise with 4 picks, plenty of cap space, and assets for possible trades. It will be telling how savvy Wright is. So far, the Derrick trade, Demar S&T and Thad Young trade all suggest there is hope. For me, I’d be thrilled with: Davis, Eason, Koloko and Procida. If they could sign a FA like LaVine would be a bonus.

[rascal]

so are you disappointed in Primo because you don’t think he’s an all-star possibility? I believe the last 12th pick to make the All-Star team was Mookie Blaylock, who was picked in1989. If Primo can become a “solid starter”, as you surmise, then that’s a pretty good outcome.

Not really. That's his ceiling and his floor can be much worse.

You think you can get a winning team with all solid starters and no all star level players?

[toki9]

Not really. That's his ceiling and his floor can be much worse.

You think you can get a winning team with all solid starters and no all star level players?

but then you’re not really talking about how your expectation of #12 pick is not being met. Rather, you’re talking about overall team construction—which is a different matter than talking about Primo as a disappointment at #12.

so then do you really expect the Spurs to pick an all-star level player at #12? It can be done, but it’s exceedingly rare. So is it really fair to say they failed if they are unable to do that?

[Atl Spur]

but then you’re not really talking about how your expectation of #12 pick is not being met. Rather, you’re talking about overall team construction—which is a different matter than talking about Primo as a disappointment at #12.

so then do you really expect the Spurs to pick an all-star level player at #12? It can be done, but it’s exceedingly rare. So is it really fair to say they failed if they are unable to do that?

Checkmate!

[rascal]

but then you’re not really talking about how your expectation of #12 pick is not being met. Rather, you’re talking about overall team construction—which is a different matter than talking about Primo as a disappointment at #12.

so then do you really expect the Spurs to pick an all-star level player at #12? It can be done, but it’s exceedingly rare. So is it really fair to say they failed if they are unable to do that?

So far yes Primo has been a disappointment after the first year. They failed if Primo cannot reach the level of a solid starter and as of now that is still an unknown.

[toki9]

So far yes Primo has been a disappointment after the first year. They failed if Primo cannot reach the level of a solid starter and as of now that is still an unknown.

There are 150 starters in the league. So then would it be fair to say that your expectation of Primo's ceiling is to be among the top 150 players in the league once fully developed--and that at this point in time, you've seen enough to say that Primo will not reach that (assuming full health)?

[rascal]

There are 150 starters in the league. So then would it be fair to say that your expectation of Primo's ceiling is to be among the top 150 players in the league once fully developed--and that at this point in time, you've seen enough to say that Primo will not reach that (assuming full health)?

I'm not very impressed with Primo's skill set for starters so I'm not expecting too much from him.

[toki9]

I'm not very impressed with Primo's skill set for starters so I'm not expecting too much from him.

That's fair. Stripped of hyperboles (or, rather, extreme projections based on your observations as a spectator), you're basically saying that the player the team has picked does not impress you.

[emanueldavidginobili]

I've found that at least among the media scouts and enthusiast draft twitterati who have podcasts and internet clout, that when they talk about Primo it's obvious that they didn't watch him much during his Spurs minutes and just extrapolate wildly.

There was one podcast I was listening to talking about the Spurs for the upcoming draft and they talked about Primo being this great athlete and an attack the rim guy or something and I about fell over

I think Vecenie had a 2021 redraft show and had him 10, but still behind Sengun.
Vecenie did a redraft but only did the top 20 and Primo wasn’t in it. He had this to say about him though.

Joshua Primo (https://theathletic.com/player/nba/spurs/joshua-primo/), San Antonio Spurs (https://theathletic.com/team/spurs/) | Original Selection: No. 12: I’ve never been as in on Primo as the Spurs were, largely because of some concerns he has in terms of athleticism and frame. His G League minutes showcased some really high-level flashes of positive moments, particularly with his ability to creatively stop and start with ball in hand as a creator, but overall were relatively inefficient and littered with turnover questions. I totally understand the upside and that he was always a project as the youngest player in the draft class. I’d have him in the top 30, but I’m just not as in love with his game as many are, including foremost Primo Prophet and my podcast partner Matt Pennie.

[Atl Spur]

A youngin playing against the best grown men in the world might require a learning curve……. Get a grip people.

[Cardinal]

Primo had some interesting workout videos in his Instagram story. I’m not sure if they’re still up or if it’s possible to post them here. He was working on the midrange step back. Looked nice tbh

[Atl Spur]

He’s going to be much better this year!

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Primo had some interesting workout videos in his Instagram story. I’m not sure if they’re still up or if it’s possible to post them here. He was working on the midrange step back. Looked nice tbh
https://twitter.com/br_lonnie/status/1537471514861264898

[Vince Carter's ankle]

https://twitter.com/ClanTheSpursFan/status/1537304938971287553