Why the Spurs Should Try to Sign Zach LaVine

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/reasons-san-antonio-spurs-signing-zach-lavine-makes-sense/

Dejounte might have just been trolling ... but he has a legitimate point, tbh.

[scott]

This guy gets it

[Ariel]

All I'm going to say is this: Chicago is all in after signing DeRozan & Vucevic, there's no going back. If they lose Lavine they're screwed, so they're better served taking the risk.
But if they're in pole position for resigning Lavine and they LET HIM go to the Spurs for a lower offer, you better believe that doesn't speak well of his health going forward, given their privileged access to information. Hope I'm wrong, the whole thing gives me a bad vibe.

[exstatic]

All I'm going to say is this: Chicago is all in after signing DeRozan & Vucevic, there's no going back. So if they're in pole position for resigning Lavine and they LET HIM go to the Spurs for a lower offer, you better believe that doesn't speak well of his health going forward, given their privileged access to information. Hope I'm wrong, the whole thing gives me a bad vibe.

He's not restricted. If they make the top offer to him, and he decides to go to SA anyway, they didn't LET him go, he chose to go.

[Ariel]

He's not restricted. If they make the top offer to him, and he decides to go to SA anyway, they didn't LET him go, he chose to go.
They can offer him more money (upwards of 200M vs around 160M), so if they don't make him a better offer it's because they chose not to.

[SAGirl]

Fun fact: Lavine and Kyle Anderson are also former college teammates, and were good friends.
————————————
Ok, leaving that aside. The most important point you made was the one about capspace. Sure many people have reservations about maxing a guy that they do not perceive as a franchise player… (I have my doubts too, not going to lie). But the alternative is spending the same or similar amount on an assortment of roleplayers like last offseason, when the Spurs had a lot of available capspace but it went to Zollins, McDermott, and Bryn Forbes. That is the alternative here, and then eventually you also have to pay your young players that you want to keep, all for a team that is not a playoff contender… not talking championships, let’s start by trying to be a playoff team shall we?

There is an alternative and is continue the rebuild the old fashioned way, without seeking to improve the team significantly, while you continue to search and hope for the luck to draft the franchise player, but the Spurs went against that in each year since Kawhi asked to be traded… so Lavine seems reasonable.

I am also seeing a mirage of the Collins situation from last year, where I am not even sure if the Spurs were interested, but I think they will be here, specially with Pop knowing Lavine from Team USA and enjoying coaching him. Very good article.

[Leetonidas]

Can't wait for the 100 page rumor thread in the off-season while posters discuss the possibilities of acquiring him and the usual crowd of negative fucks can call everyone stupid for discussing signing any FA that isn't prime Luka Doncic or something:lol

[BatManu20]

Sign me up.

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Dejounte-Murray-Is-Already-Recruiting-Zach-LaVine-To-Spurs-678x381.jpeg

[exstatic]

He's not restricted. If they make the top offer to him, and he decides to go to SA anyway, they didn't LET him go, he chose to go.


They can offer him more money (upwards of 200M vs around 160M), so if they don't make him a better offer it's because they chose not to.

Reading comprehension is important.

[BatManu20]

Pop’s quotes on LaVine from coaching him last Summer on Team USA:


“The thing I remember most about him, and I can almost quote him, is he would say, ‘Pop, just tell me what you want me to do and I’ll go do it.’ He must’ve told me that 10 times while we were there. And he would follow through on it,” Popovich said. “I’d say, ‘We gotta have you play ‘D.’ We gotta have you use athleticism to make some stops. At the other end they can’t stop you if you’re active and aggressive.’ And he did those things.”

“He was a helluva lot of fun,” Popovich said on the Bulls star. “He was so important to what we did just because of his special skills. He and Devin Booker were kind of similar in that regard. They really gave us pace. The speed with which he plays, the athleticism he uses, I would be in awe from time to time with some of the things he would do on the court. That speed, that pace that he gave us allowed a lot of things to happen.”

[SAGirl]

Ive had a second thought. I trust the Spurs medical staff, but what I don’t want to see is a Chandler Parsons situation, where Dallas didn’t want to re-sign him for Dirk’s twilight because they suspected the knees were a time bomb, Memphis maxed him out and the guy never played to his old standards again. I trust the Spurs medical staff to catch any medical concerns. If they aren’t interested I’ll assume this was a reason.

[Chomag]

I'm not here to say that he's not a good player because he is, but is he enough of a game changer to throw that kind of money at him?

[Atl Spur]

Reading comprehension is important.

Yepper!!! Lol

[Atl Spur]

Reading comprehension is important.

Yepper!!! Lol

[GAustex]

I'm not here to say that he's not a good player because he is, but is he enough of a game changer to throw that kind of money at him?

This right here

[Ariel]

Reading comprehension is important.
I was working on the assumption that the reader uses common sense and is informed that he's happy in Chicago but he's made it known it's a business decision he'll be making. In short, money. So if they offer more money (which they can) they'll get him, and if they don't get him it's because they didn't offer more money although they could (i.e. choice). Do I have to draw a map, or you can follow the breadcrumbs?

EDIT: Breadcrumbs provided for the logically impaired:
p: Lavine will prioritize money (reasonable assumption based on his words)
q: Chicago has more money to offer (fact)
r: Chicago really wants Lavine
s: Lavine signs with Chicago
p ^ q ^ r => s (Lavine wants money and Chicago has more money and Chicago really wants Lavine, then Lavine signs with Chicago)
~s => ~(p ^ q ^ r) (inverse of the implication)
~s => ~p ∨ ~q ∨ ~r (DeMorgan)
Assuming ~s (Chicago doesn't sign Lavine): ~p ∨ ~q ∨ ~r (he didn't go for the money, they didn't have the money, or they didn't want him)
Given p = V (he's going for the money) and q = V (they have the money): ~p ∨ ~q ∨ ~r = ~V ∨ ~V ∨ ~r = F ∨ F ∨ ~r = ~r
Ergo, given p and q, ~s => ~r
In English, if Lavine is going for the money and they have the money, if they don't sign him it's because they didn't really want him

Comprende?

[K...]

The other option is that he saw chicago go all in, and is underwhelmed. With little flexibility you have no option to change. San antonio has young talent and draft picks. While wed have to ditch talent,. The return would be more flexibility in expirings and draft picks. Would you rather play with a declining former all star or an improving marginal one?.

[BatManu20]

I'm not here to say that he's not a good player because he is, but is he enough of a game changer to throw that kind of money at him?

It’d be a gamble certainly. On one hand, if he’s healthy, he’s one of the best 2-Guards in the league and immediately becomes our best offensive player. This is a 2x All-Star who averaged 27/5/5 this season on 51% shooting & 42% from 3 before he hurt his knee. He turns 27 this year so he is just now entering his prime. And let’s face it, this is San Antonio. We are going to have to pay the Max to get a player of his caliber (he’d get the Max elsewhere anyways).

On The other hand, he does have these knee issues, he doesn’t play much Defense, and he’s often seen as more of an empty stats guy than someone who effects Winning like a Max guy should. So it really just depends on who you ask.

Personally, I do l think PATFO are definitely interested and willing to pay him that Max if he’s willing to come here. Whether or not he’d choose our offer over Chicago’s or anyone else remains to be seen. But the fact the he’s good friends with DJ, he apparently likes Pop, and us having no state income tax here I think definitely at the very least will make him give it some thought.

[exstatic]

I was working on the assumption that the reader uses common sense and is informed that he's happy in Chicago but he's made it known it's a business decision he'll be making. In short, money. So if they offer more money (which they can) they'll get him, and if they don't get him it's because they didn't offer more money although they could (i.e. choice). Do I have to draw a map, or you can follow the breadcrumbs?

EDIT: Breadcrumbs provided for the logically impaired:
p: Lavine will prioritize money (reasonable assumption based on his words)
q: Chicago has more money to offer (fact)
r: Chicago really wants Lavine
s: Lavine signs with Chicago
p ^ q ^ r => s (Lavine wants money and Chicago has more money and Chicago really wants Lavine, then Lavine signs with Chicago)
~s => ~(p ^ q ^ r) (inverse of the implication)
~s => ~p ∨ ~q ∨ ~r (DeMorgan)
Assuming ~s (Chicago doesn't sign Lavine): ~p ∨ ~q ∨ ~r (he didn't go for the money, they didn't have the money, or they didn't want him)
Given p = V (he's going for the money) and q = V (they have the money): ~p ∨ ~q ∨ ~r = ~V ∨ ~V ∨ ~r = F ∨ F ∨ ~r = ~r
Ergo, given p and q, ~s => ~r
In English, if Lavine is going for the money and they have the money, if they don't sign him it's because they didn't really want him

Comprende?


He's not restricted. If they make the top offer to him, and he decides to go to SA anyway, they didn't LET him go, he chose to go.

[Dejounte]

Zach has perfect reasons to leave. The Olympics couldn’t have happened at a better time. That fostered friendship with DJ helps a lot too. It’s the perfect storm.

[Dejounte]

Chicago wouldn’t be upset. They shouldn’t be. There’s no burning of bridges here. Zach owes them nothing.

[John B]

Good read. I like LaVine. But I have reservations on LaVine being a #1 option. And the Spurs are in desperate need for a goto scorer. Is it LaVine? Plus he’s another 6’5” who we have Devin and Primo already as promising players. It remains to be seen who they get in the draft. If we get a pure scorer like Shaedon, then forget it. If they get a Keegan or another PF, then maybe. I gues what I’m saying is Spurs could take a shot of him. But he’s not Spurs #1 priority this Summer.

[ginobilized]

Nice article!

It's definitely a situation that the Spurs have to investigate deeply and with caution. With the uptempo style of play with the youngsters in SA, I can see Lavine fitting in well and helping others develop.
I'd think we lose LWIV and Richardson at the very least. I'm no Pat Riley, but, a power forward who can rebound, shoot the three and defend, along with Lavine, raises the bar for next season significantly.

[Robz4000]

I'm not here to say that he's not a good player because he is, but is he enough of a game changer to throw that kind of money at him?

Said for years that the dude was empty stats ala DePression. That being said, he's a better roster fit than DePression ever was and isn't anywhere near as bad a defender. Would come down to his knees for me and if the Spurs could land a legit PF in the draft.

[rascal]

The other option is that he saw chicago go all in, and is underwhelmed. With little flexibility you have no option to change. San antonio has young talent and draft picks. While wed have to ditch talent,. The return would be more flexibility in expirings and draft picks. Would you rather play with a declining former all star or an improving marginal one?.

San Antonio would not be a desired location if he wants to win now.

[ginobilized]

On second thought, Lakers might be all over him as Westbrook replacement.

[MannyIsGod]

I said prior to this year that the Bulls not extending him was really weird. Injury concerns or not, I would be happy if the Spurs maxed him and tried to bring him in. Whats the point of having capspace if you're not willing to use it on a guy like Lavine?

[Sugus]

Hmm, I'm pretty torn on this. I'm not the biggest Lavine fan and while I don't worry too much about the knee, I do wonder whether the Spurs are actually ready for pulling the trigger like this and accelerating their timeline so much. Signing Lavine puts a huge clock on the Spurs' head for immediate contention, as Zach won't leave a good situation in CHI for nothing short of the promise of coming into a "WCF or bust" kinda team. Can the Spurs as constructed (and a few FA moves, ofc) fulfill those expectations? Or will they set themselves up for even more years of mediocrity and nothing to show for it?

Personally, I would rather the Spurs wait one more year before trying a move like this. Of course, Lavine won't be available by then, but if we've learned anything of the modern NBA, it's that there's always bound to be malcontent star players waiting for an opportunity to bounce off their teams. I'd like to see just one more season of Spurs' young core growing into their roles, getting extended run and minutes, and either fight for the POs or tank out, get a top lottery pick, and finish rounding up "The Core" that would attract a Lavine-level talent to SanAn. I have serious reservations as to whether the Spurs could put together a better team for Zach than this years' Bulls did, TBH.

Basically 60/40 on this, and hopefully Zach re-signs with Chicago and prevents the scenario from even happening. I liked this year's Bulls, and they have a great fanbase that's starving for good basketball.

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs can't wait a year though. Not unless they're going to trade Keldon and Jakob and sign some one year deals. I don't really see what they gain in that scenario. The free agency class is pretty weak this year, but they probably need to try to find a use for that cap space this year even if that means trading for a max level player with some of their picks/assets into that space. I don't think the Spurs really have the luxury of a team like the Lakers though. If Lavine is willing to come this year, they probably need to take that gamble.

[KingKev]

They can offer him more money (upwards of 200M vs around 160M), so if they don't make him a better offer it's because they chose not to.

4yrs 160m, versus 5yrs 200m. That 5th year would probably be a player option around the same
time he will be looking to sign his final big contract.

[KingKev]

On second thought, Lakers might be all over him as Westbrook replacement.

They have zero avenues to get him. Lakers should be focusing on signing Lonnie Walker which is more attainable for them.

[scott]

I'm not here to say that he's not a good player because he is, but is he enough of a game changer to throw that kind of money at him?

What's the alternative? Spending the same amount of money on a bunch of McDermott type players that keep us treading water in perpetuity? The money will eventually need to get spent one way or another, let's do it on the way that gives us a chance to improve.

[scott]

Good read. I like LaVine. But I have reservations on LaVine being a #1 option. And the Spurs are in desperate need for a goto scorer. Is it LaVine? Plus he’s another 6’5” who we have Devin and Primo already as promising players. It remains to be seen who they get in the draft. If we get a pure scorer like Shaedon, then forget it. If they get a Keegan or another PF, then maybe. I gues what I’m saying is Spurs could take a shot of him. But he’s not Spurs #1 priority this Summer.

I just hope we don't pass on All-Star caliber players because "we have Devin and Primo already". They are irrelevant to the discussion on Lavine, because they've proven exactly zero.

[KingKev]

Hmm, I'm pretty torn on this. I'm not the biggest Lavine fan and while I don't worry too much about the knee, I do wonder whether the Spurs are actually ready for pulling the trigger like this and accelerating their timeline so much. Signing Lavine puts a huge clock on the Spurs' head for immediate contention, as Zach won't leave a good situation in CHI for nothing short of the promise of coming into a "WCF or bust" kinda team. Can the Spurs as constructed (and a few FA moves, ofc) fulfill those expectations? Or will they set themselves up for even more years of mediocrity and nothing to show for it?

Personally, I would rather the Spurs wait one more year before trying a move like this. Of course, Lavine won't be available by then, but if we've learned anything of the modern NBA, it's that there's always bound to be malcontent star players waiting for an opportunity to bounce off their teams. I'd like to see just one more season of Spurs' young core growing into their roles, getting extended run and minutes, and either fight for the POs or tank out, get a top lottery pick, and finish rounding up "The Core" that would attract a Lavine-level talent to SanAn. I have serious reservations as to whether the Spurs could put together a better team for Zach than this years' Bulls did, TBH.

Basically 60/40 on this, and hopefully Zach re-signs with Chicago and prevents the scenario from even happening. I liked this year's Bulls, and they have a great fanbase that's starving for good basketball.

The Spurs need to shoot their shot every free agency period at any top free agent who may have interest.

[scott]

I said prior to this year that the Bulls not extending him was really weird. Injury concerns or not, I would be happy if the Spurs maxed him and tried to bring him in. Whats the point of having capspace if you're not willing to use it on a guy like Lavine?

So we can have for the next big FA class that never materializes!

[KingKev]

Good read. I like LaVine. But I have reservations on LaVine being a #1 option. And the Spurs are in desperate need for a goto scorer. Is it LaVine? Plus he’s another 6’5” who we have Devin and Primo already as promising players. It remains to be seen who they get in the draft. If we get a pure scorer like Shaedon, then forget it. If they get a Keegan or another PF, then maybe. I gues what I’m saying is Spurs could take a shot of him. But he’s not Spurs #1 priority this Summer.

Oh man. The fact that Vassell and Primo are our 2 guards is exactly the reason Lavine makes sense. I know in your mind Vassell is a future all-star and 25/5/5 guy and Primo is a future HoFer but guess what; probably not.

[scott]

Hmm, I'm pretty torn on this. I'm not the biggest Lavine fan and while I don't worry too much about the knee, I do wonder whether the Spurs are actually ready for pulling the trigger like this and accelerating their timeline so much. Signing Lavine puts a huge clock on the Spurs' head for immediate contention, as Zach won't leave a good situation in CHI for nothing short of the promise of coming into a "WCF or bust" kinda team. Can the Spurs as constructed (and a few FA moves, ofc) fulfill those expectations? Or will they set themselves up for even more years of mediocrity and nothing to show for it?

Personally, I would rather the Spurs wait one more year before trying a move like this. Of course, Lavine won't be available by then, but if we've learned anything of the modern NBA, it's that there's always bound to be malcontent star players waiting for an opportunity to bounce off their teams. I'd like to see just one more season of Spurs' young core growing into their roles, getting extended run and minutes, and either fight for the POs or tank out, get a top lottery pick, and finish rounding up "The Core" that would attract a Lavine-level talent to SanAn. I have serious reservations as to whether the Spurs could put together a better team for Zach than this years' Bulls did, TBH.

Basically 60/40 on this, and hopefully Zach re-signs with Chicago and prevents the scenario from even happening. I liked this year's Bulls, and they have a great fanbase that's starving for good basketball.

This is a good point, and I think getting lucky with ping-pong balls plays a huge role. If we got into the Top 4 and drafted Banchero, I think that greatly accelerates our TL while still leaving us with good future assets (I think at that point, you definitely try to flip 20 and 25 into future picks). San Antonio immediately becomes very much like Memphis, a young franchise on the move WITH good future assets, and Lavine could see a lot of appeal in that.

[Leetonidas]

honestly i just want our team to be competitive again so fuck it, sign me up. Dude's turning 27 soon, a young all star in his prime with elite athleticism and a good three point stroke, plus he's buddies with DJ? Do it Brian

[montgod]

I get what you're saying Sugus and feel the same to some degree. One point, if you sign Lavine, he could attract other free agents who could add to the movement and mesh into a formidable team. Besides, it's already hard enough to lure big name free agents, so you get what you can at this point. And with him having a connection with DJ, that helps.

The other hand, no one comes and you continue to draft and grow from within which would be slower but Zach is young enough where I don't think it should hinder Spurs signing him.

Not only that, the Spurs are in a good position to draft a player who can make an impact now. I still think other players would see the team as more attractive with Lavine after a year with some improved success in getting in the playoffs then without him. Then there are still some great role players and second tier free agents that could be possibilities like Covington, Bagley, Brunson, Anderson, Boucher, Jonas, JSmith, and/or actively looking to trade players on the roster that don't fit.

Real prize would be Beal but I doubt Spurs could lure him here since he loves playing Washington despite the team not being successful. Who knows though.

[montgod]

This is a good point, and I think getting lucky with ping-pong balls plays a huge role. If we got into the Top 4 and drafted Banchero, I think that greatly accelerates our TL while still leaving us with good future assets (I think at that point, you definitely try to flip 20 and 25 into future picks). San Antonio immediately becomes very much like Memphis, a young franchise on the move WITH good future assets, and Lavine could see a lot of appeal in that.

Exactly my thoughts as well. Draft could change a lot of things quickly. Having Lavine who already likes playing with DJ/KJ and Pop is a plus.

[Dejounte]

I’m not so sure about Beal and his wife’s loud antivax stance are a prize

[Dejounte]

The Bulls are an inept organization and a lot of what will happen with Zach is similar to how they (mis)handled the Lauri M situation. Just listen to how the local Chicago reporters disrespect the Bulls’ players in interviews. I am calling this shit again.

[KingKev]

The Bulls are an inept organization and a lot of what will happen with Zach is similar to how they (mis)handled the Lauri M situation. Just listen to how the local Chicago reporters disrespect the Bulls’ players in interviews. I am calling this shit again.

Look how they handled D Rose.

[Seventyniner]

This is a good point, and I think getting lucky with ping-pong balls plays a huge role. If we got into the Top 4 and drafted Banchero, I think that greatly accelerates our TL while still leaving us with good future assets (I think at that point, you definitely try to flip 20 and 25 into future picks). San Antonio immediately becomes very much like Memphis, a young franchise on the move WITH good future assets, and Lavine could see a lot of appeal in that.

From Lavine's point of view, it's a good thing he gets to see the results of the lottery and draft first.

One problem for the Spurs is they have to conduct the draft and all associated trades (if any) prior to being able to talk to Lavine let alone knowing if he will sign.

[KingKev]

From Lavine's point of view, it's a good thing he gets to see the results of the lottery and draft first.

One problem for the Spurs is they have to conduct the draft and all associated trades (if any) prior to being able to talk to Lavine let alone knowing if he will sign.

Judging by how many deals get announced within hours of free agency I’m not sure that’s how it actually goes down. We cleared the cap pretty quickly to bring in LMA.

[Sugus]

Spurs can't wait a year though.

Why not, tbh, what's burnin'? They certainly don't look constructed for some big run at the moment. Of course, lottery luck and a shrewd FA period could change that, and Lavine very well could be a part of it... But it's not like DJ is unraveling at the seams or anything. The Spurs are one of the youngest teams in the league, they're not gonna drop dead for missing another postseason. I also don't see Keldon/Jakob being pivotal enough to be the main deciders over what to do next season at all, tbh. Arguably, not even Dejounte himself is that level of player to push you to immediate contention, but I can see the argument for him.


I don't think the Spurs really have the luxury of a team like the Lakers though. If Lavine is willing to come this year, they probably need to take that gamble.

Ehh, maybe we look at it differently, but I don't see any guns pointed at SA's head calling for a "win-now" scenario. They don't need that gamble, just like they didn't need to throw that max offer at John Collins, and so on with the next FA pipedream that comes next season. Yes, they'll need to make "the move" eventually, and yes Lavine's connection to Dejounte is noteworthy, but if as an organization, you're not sure whether the supporting cast is mature/talented enough for a worthy run, I don't see the real necessity to mutilate your options by hurrying up a max signing, one that you can't take back if you fall flat next season.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Good analysis of the "why". I asked a while back about how the Spurs are going to get back to contention. It's either something like this or finding a needle in the draft haystack. Obviously he has to go through medical, so I'm not too worried about that part. They would be going into it with their eyes open.

To get him, they have to just sign him outright I think. The idea of adding him to the roster is good. Sending out desirable talent to get him sort of defeats the purpose. The same goes for trying to trade for someone else. So if they are going to do something like this, it really needs to be an unrestricted free agent (assume that anyone we want would get matched if they're restricted). That really narrows it down. I agree that they have to at least take a shot.

So would they draft differently if they knew that they would be importing Lavine? I would think that they would take guys like Ogbaji off their board. That's sort of a problem, since they won't know. But if I was confident in landing Lavine, and didn't get a lottery pick, I think Eason looks better and better alongside DJ and Lavine.

[Sugus]

The Spurs need to shoot their shot every free agency period at any top free agent who may have interest.

Disagree. The Spurs don't have a lot of "shots" in their gun, and beyond the obvious "make your diligence", they don't need to be the desperate dude at the party throwing themselves over anything resembling a girl, tbh. I don't see them as being "one piece away" as constructed, and signing a max player heavily restricts their hard-earned flexibility.

The Spurs aren't the Kings, bottom-line, tbh.

[Dejounte]

Good analysis of the "why". I asked a while back about how the Spurs are going to get back to contention. It's either something like this or finding a needle in the draft haystack. Obviously he has to go through medical, so I'm not too worried about that part. They would be going into it with their eyes open.

To get him, they have to just sign him outright I think. The idea of adding him to the roster is good. Sending out desirable talent to get him sort of defeats the purpose. The same goes for trying to trade for someone else. So if they are going to do something like this, it really needs to be an unrestricted free agent (assume that anyone we want would get matched if they're restricted). That really narrows it down. I agree that they have to at least take a shot.

So would they draft differently if they knew that they would be importing Lavine? I would think that they would take guys like Ogbaji off their board. That's sort of a problem, since they won't know. But if I was confident in landing Lavine, and didn't get a lottery pick, I think Eason looks better and better alongside DJ and Lavine.

Eason with those two is the more realistic “Seattle trio” that I’d like to see happen.

but I really want Banchero to be the guy….

[Sugus]

This is a good point, and I think getting lucky with ping-pong balls plays a huge role. If we got into the Top 4 and drafted Banchero, I think that greatly accelerates our TL while still leaving us with good future assets (I think at that point, you definitely try to flip 20 and 25 into future picks). San Antonio immediately becomes very much like Memphis, a young franchise on the move WITH good future assets, and Lavine could see a lot of appeal in that.

Yeah, for sure, that's why I'm holding my breath until the lottery's over with at the least, and we see a clearer direction for the team. A lot of things would change should the Spurs land a top pick, and even the guy they select with said pick makes the roster composition vary wildly (they'd have much different holes to plug selecting Banchero than Smith, for example, the latter making Lavine much less of a priority, IMO). Getting Banchero is definitely a scenario where I'd be ok with the FO making a move at Lavine, but almost nothing short of that is enough to sway my opinion on this...

[KingKev]

^ it’s not about winning now it’s about landing a marquee free agent.

Imagine being a virgin who doesn't get girls and turning down a pretty girl who might actually like you because you have a crush in the prom queen.

[Sugus]

Eason with those two is the more realistic “Seattle trio” that I’d like to see happen.

but I really want Banchero to be the guy….

What's up, D? I haven't asked in a while, but how do you see Banchero panning out? I've been hearing a lot more about his upped play in the college tournament (you'll have to pardon my unknowledge here, as usual), but also more talk about his (perceived) lesser ceiling relative to the other top prospects. How do you see him faring out, and moreso, do you think a team with Banchero and Lavine (and DJ!) being able to grow into anything close to a contender? I know you're "team DJ" all the way, so I gotta think this is a dream-y scenario for you, right?

[Sugus]

Real prize would be Beal but I doubt Spurs could lure him here since he loves playing Washington despite the team not being successful. Who knows though.

You make some great points, but I was more intrigued at this. Beal over Lavine?! I don't think I'd take Beal (and his upcoming extension) on most scenarios, nevermind his asking price. He's old, injured, slow, bad D. Good player in a vacuum but I haven't been surprised at Washington's lack of success under him. Surprising to hear you'd rather have him than Lavine in this scenario.

[Dejounte]

What's up, D? I haven't asked in a while, but how do you see Banchero panning out? I've been hearing a lot more about his upped play in the college tournament (you'll have to pardon my unknowledge here, as usual), but also more talk about his (perceived) lesser ceiling relative to the other top prospects. How do you see him faring out, and moreso, do you think a team with Banchero and Lavine (and DJ!) being able to grow into anything close to a contender? I know you're "team DJ" all the way, so I gotta think this is a dream-y scenario for you, right?

DJ is probably the only guy in the league who can unlock Banchero’s superstar potential. He’s already a big brother to him and with that kind of influence paired with DJ’s work ethic, it would push Banchero to work on all his weaknesses (namely defense). Banchero basically plays like a less athletic old man LeBron on offense. He’s the guy you center an offense around and the guy that the Spurs are sorely missing. Or at least the most obvious guy in the draft. The fit is perfect.

[lmbebo]

From Lavine's point of view, it's a good thing he gets to see the results of the lottery and draft first.

One problem for the Spurs is they have to conduct the draft and all associated trades (if any) prior to being able to talk to Lavine let alone knowing if he will sign.

Sure there are back doors to talking to him ... whether league will try and crack down on it more or not is another issue.

Still mixed on him. But maybe the Spurs dangle some of our other pieces to upgrade other positions of need (depending on draft lottery results on 5/17).

[Sugus]

^ it’s not about winning now it’s about landing a marquee free agent.

Imagine being a virgin who doesn't get girls and turning down a pretty girl who might actually like you because you have a crush in the prom queen.

:lol you made me laugh with the scenario. I wouldn't really say it's like that though, more like the pretty girl who's a religious nut and might not even get you a kiss, over keeping your options open and finding a not-crazy girl. Or whatever, I'm not good with these analogies. I understand SanAn isn't really in a position to be picky with FAs, but even then, I've been enjoying the organic, draft-based growth of the team, and would prefer to see them keep pursuing that direction, instead of jumping the gun at the first FA that looks our way.

It's not about the desperation, but future outlook. I could also see that even if Lavine doesn't work out, he'd still be tradeable, but that's a lot of missed years/money/opportunities if it doesn't work out - hence my hesitance. As I said, I think a lot of my opinion on this rests on whether the Spurs can get a top lottery pick, and get a high floor/high ceiling guy, the kind that they're sorely missing right now.

[Seventyniner]

I can't wait for the discussion when the followup article drops: Why the Spurs Shouldn't Try to Sign Zach LaVine.

[The Truth #6]

Another reason Lavine might want to leave is he would be the top dog on the Spurs, no offense to DJM. I may be reading too much, but watching the Bulls in the playoffs I was struck by how much DDR dominates the ball, even with an All Star playing next to him, not to mention a decent point guard. If Lavine feels he's taking a backseat only to get their asses kicked in the playoffs, then that could also be a factor.

Now, coming to SA is not glamorous, but his relationship with DJM would have to be part of the deal, something he really wants to see happening.

As KingKev hinted, it doesn't have to mean we are in win now mode. One would think most teams would immediately make trades and push up the deadline. But they could also just wait to the trade deadline and see where we are at and keep some flexibility.

But if nothing else, I want to see it happen and hear Lavine yell out:

"I'm taking my talents to the River Walk!"

[KingKev]

:lol you made me laugh with the scenario. I wouldn't really say it's like that though, more like the pretty girl who's a religious nut and might not even get you a kiss, over keeping your options open and finding a not-crazy girl. Or whatever, I'm not good with these analogies. I understand SanAn isn't really in a position to be picky with FAs, but even then, I've been enjoying the organic, draft-based growth of the team, and would prefer to see them keep pursuing that direction, instead of jumping the gun at the first FA that looks our way.

It's not about the desperation, but future outlook. I could also see that even if Lavine doesn't work out, he'd still be tradeable, but that's a lot of missed years/money/opportunities if it doesn't work out - hence my hesitance. As I said, I think a lot of my opinion on this rests on whether the Spurs can get a top lottery pick, and get a high floor/high ceiling guy, the kind that they're sorely missing right now.

haha your analogy actually makes alot of sense also. LOL.

Atleast this has given us fanboys something to chit chat about.

[Dejounte]

ALL of the shooting guards in the upcoming draft have a slim to none chance of even reaching Zach’s level. To say some rando unknown like Sharpe is a better gamble than signing Zach is blasphemy. Why wait for a prospect to fully realize his potential when 1) said prospect will likely not even reach it and 2) you can get that fully realized potential right here and now in Zach.

[PhantomDashCam]

I’m having a tough time getting past the injury concerns and accelerated time line too, like others have mentioned.

The way the Bulls have mismanaged the whole Lonzo Ball injury situation too should give people pause.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lonzo-ball-injury-update-bulls-guard-out-for-rest-of-season-due-to-setback-in-recovery-from-knee-surgery/


Chicago Bulls (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/CHI/chicago-bulls/) point guard Lonzo Ball (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/playerpage/2268586/lonzo-ball) has been ruled out for the remainder of the season due to his knee injury, the team announced on Wednesday (https://twitter.com/chicagobulls/status/1511729699302559752). He will continue rehabbing and hopes to be ready for the start of the 2022-23 season.
Ball has not played since Jan. 14 with what the team initially diagnosed as a knee bruise. Further evaluation later revealed Ball suffered a torn meniscus, and he underwent surgery to address the issue on Jan. 28

A knee bruise which was actually a meniscus tear? Buyer beware…

[vy65]

Hmm, I'm pretty torn on this. I'm not the biggest Lavine fan and while I don't worry too much about the knee, I do wonder whether the Spurs are actually ready for pulling the trigger like this and accelerating their timeline so much. Signing Lavine puts a huge clock on the Spurs' head for immediate contention, as Zach won't leave a good situation in CHI for nothing short of the promise of coming into a "WCF or bust" kinda team. Can the Spurs as constructed (and a few FA moves, ofc) fulfill those expectations? Or will they set themselves up for even more years of mediocrity and nothing to show for it?

Personally, I would rather the Spurs wait one more year before trying a move like this. Of course, Lavine won't be available by then, but if we've learned anything of the modern NBA, it's that there's always bound to be malcontent star players waiting for an opportunity to bounce off their teams. I'd like to see just one more season of Spurs' young core growing into their roles, getting extended run and minutes, and either fight for the POs or tank out, get a top lottery pick, and finish rounding up "The Core" that would attract a Lavine-level talent to SanAn. I have serious reservations as to whether the Spurs could put together a better team for Zach than this years' Bulls did, TBH.

Basically 60/40 on this, and hopefully Zach re-signs with Chicago and prevents the scenario from even happening. I liked this year's Bulls, and they have a great fanbase that's starving for good basketball.

Malcontent stars are the exact sort that does not want or that SA should not want.

[John B]

Oh man. The fact that Vassell and Primo are our 2 guards is exactly the reason Lavine makes sense. I know in your mind Vassell is a future all-star and 25/5/5 guy and Primo is a future HoFer but guess what; probably not.

It’s not all that I said. But yes, signing LaVine could derail the development of Devin and Primo, or not. But it’s a concern. The same way we moved on from Demar and the rest of the vets, and traded Derrick. Again it may or may not. While Devin could play SF and Primo continue coming as backup SG.

To me it wasn’t a number 1 priority. The gaping hole is the PF position and C if they decided to move from Poeltl. I think we’re good at 1, 2, 3. I think if we’re lucky to get a top pick at PF, and signing LaVine would further move the Spurs over the hill, then by all means. What I’m saying is LaVine’s signing is more of a 2nd or 3rd move if you’re playing chess.

[DPG21920]

I am definitely for signing him ESPECIALLY if its via sign and trade. If you can get Lavine but still have 20M in cap space plus at least pick 9 and/or 20/25 I think its a risk you have to take.

If you are replacing say Dougs 15M for example the 36M really turns into 21M since Doug sucks and you were paying him anyways. No brainer IMO

[CGD]

f it, go get him. Lets see what a Murray-Levine backcourt can down over the next 3-4 years.

[CGD]

Agree -- the combo of Doug, Richardson, Langford's contract gets you close the the ~30M you'd need. Tack on Jock, KBD and you get closer to ~32M. Only contract there with value is Richardson, so spurs probably have to tack on a pick to dispose of Doug. Others can just be waived by CHI.

[scott]

Eason with those two is the more realistic “Seattle trio” that I’d like to see happen.

but I really want Banchero to be the guy….

I didn't realize (until just now) that Tari went to HS in Seattle too. Damn, now I'm with that if our 20% chance of Banchero dreams don't come to fruition.

[scott]

ALL of the shooting guards in the upcoming draft have a slim to none chance of even reaching Zach’s level. To say some rando unknown like Sharpe is a better gamble than signing Zach is blasphemy. Why wait for a prospect to fully realize his potential when 1) said prospect will likely not even reach it and 2) you can get that fully realized potential right here and now in Zach.

IMO the best way of looking at it is that Zach is the maximum of Lonnie's potential. If Lonnie had spent the last 4 years becoming Zach, we'd be ecstatic talking about backing up the truck to give him a big extension. No one would be saying "yeah, Lonnie is a FA but we should just let him go because we have Devin and Primo" or "we need to preserve that cap flexibility so we have to let Lonnie go".

[Dejounte]

IMO the best way of looking at it is that Zach is the maximum of Lonnie's potential. If Lonnie had spent the last 4 years becoming Zach, we'd be ecstatic talking about backing up the truck to give him a big extension. No one would be saying "yeah, Lonnie is a FA but we should just let him go because we have Devin and Primo" or "we need to preserve that cap flexibility so we have to let Lonnie go".

This is exactly the outside thinking I wish more people had.


the third one you can add is, “Well, I’d rather bet on our top pick next year than pay Lonnie now”

[baseline bum]

Hmm, I'm pretty torn on this. I'm not the biggest Lavine fan and while I don't worry too much about the knee, I do wonder whether the Spurs are actually ready for pulling the trigger like this and accelerating their timeline so much. Signing Lavine puts a huge clock on the Spurs' head for immediate contention, as Zach won't leave a good situation in CHI for nothing short of the promise of coming into a "WCF or bust" kinda team. Can the Spurs as constructed (and a few FA moves, ofc) fulfill those expectations? Or will they set themselves up for even more years of mediocrity and nothing to show for it?

Personally, I would rather the Spurs wait one more year before trying a move like this. Of course, Lavine won't be available by then, but if we've learned anything of the modern NBA, it's that there's always bound to be malcontent star players waiting for an opportunity to bounce off their teams. I'd like to see just one more season of Spurs' young core growing into their roles, getting extended run and minutes, and either fight for the POs or tank out, get a top lottery pick, and finish rounding up "The Core" that would attract a Lavine-level talent to SanAn. I have serious reservations as to whether the Spurs could put together a better team for Zach than this years' Bulls did, TBH.

Basically 60/40 on this, and hopefully Zach re-signs with Chicago and prevents the scenario from even happening. I liked this year's Bulls, and they have a great fanbase that's starving for good basketball.

I would take Lavine on a max deal, he's one of the few stars the Spurs might have a real shot at and this isn't a franchise that's going to draw free agents. Lavine might be their only shot at a good FA signing. Spurs aren't the Lakers, they aren't going to have Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, or LeBron James force their way here. And as pointed out previously, the Spurs won't have capspace a year from now unless they send Jakob and Keldon walking. And Poetl is definitely someone you want to keep if you're off the tanking schedule and looking to win some playoff games. If Primo develops to be good enough to challenge Lavine for the starting spot later on that's a good problem to have. Either you have another star to play sixth man or you have a great trade chip in either him or Lavine to go after someone who fills a bigger need on the roster.

[Dejounte]

If the Spurs still turn out to be a fake contender after signing Zach (which I think folks are underestimating the seamless fit Zach will have here) the Spurs aren’t as locked tight with their ceiling as others doomed them to be. Their strategy just needs to continue with drafting high risk, high reward players from the 15th pick all the way to the end of the first round. The advantage this organization has is their scouting and developing prowess. They will never be capped if they understand when to let go of players who limit others (DeMar, Patty, Gay) and let younger players eventually find their niche over time.

[baseline bum]

Real prize would be Beal but I doubt Spurs could lure him here since he loves playing Washington despite the team not being successful. Who knows though.

Beal has nerve problems that wrecked his shot and his shot is really all he had. Would definitely want to hear some opinions from doctors how well that can be rehabbed.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Eason with those two is the more realistic “Seattle trio” that I’d like to see happen.

but I really want Banchero to be the guy….


No doubt. I don't let myself go there, but if we're dreaming that would be the mother of all offseasons.

[mo7888]

I am definitely for signing him ESPECIALLY if its via sign and trade. If you can get Lavine but still have 20M in cap space plus at least pick 9 and/or 20/25 I think its a risk you have to take.

If you are replacing say Dougs 15M for example the 36M really turns into 21M since Doug sucks and you were paying him anyways. No brainer IMO

This pretty much... If you can get Zach you do it (I don't understand the arguments against it) but, if you can get him by S&T it's a home run... some combination of Doug, Rich, a pick, and KJ (not all just these for discussion) should be on the table...then go get a PF and let's start talking about playoff seeding instead of play in games...

[vy65]

I am definitely for signing him ESPECIALLY if its via sign and trade. If you can get Lavine but still have 20M in cap space plus at least pick 9 and/or 20/25 I think its a risk you have to take.

If you are replacing say Dougs 15M for example the 36M really turns into 21M since Doug sucks and you were paying him anyways. No brainer IMO

Have no idea if it’s feasible, but would interested to see a s&t along these lines and then an offer to miles bridges. Interestingly these two and DJM are Rich Paul clients, if that means anything.

[scott]

If the Spurs still turn out to be a fake contender after signing Zach (which I think folks are underestimating the seamless fit Zach will have here) the Spurs aren’t as locked tight with their ceiling as others doomed them to be. Their strategy just needs to continue with drafting high risk, high reward players from the 15th pick all the way to the end of the first round. The advantage this organization has is their scouting and developing prowess. They will never be capped if they understand when to let go of players who limit others (DeMar, Patty, Gay) and let younger players eventually find their niche over time.

Really can't be overstated how perfect of a fit Zach is. He is everything we all dreamt Lonnie could become.

[mystargtr34]

It’s still a pipe dream at this stage but if we are playing the game I would offer Lavine the max if I’m the Spurs. He has flaws obviously and isn’t a true franchise player but the Spurs seriously need a talent injection and a go to scorer like Lavine. And you have to overpay to lure these types of you are the Spurs. You can build a good team around him. You’d have a good secondary scorer in DeJounte who can average 20 a night. Your team isn’t going anywhere if DJM is your first offensive option let’s be honest. Good defensive potential (Jak, DJM, Vassell, hopefully Sochan), slashing (Vassell and Keldon). 3 point shooting potential is there with Keldon, Vassell and McDermott off the bench.

Said this a week or two ago in the off-season thread. Still of the same opinion. 4 years $160m is worth it to me. Being able to put the ball in the basket at an efficient rate is still the most important and desirable single aspect of today’s NBA. You can then build out the other parts of your team around that (defense, shooting, rebounding). These compmentary skills are easier to get than a true elite scorer like a Lavine.

I’d put Vassell at the 3 next to Lavine and Murray and bring Keldon off the bench and draft and sign or trade for a 4 to put next to Jak. Knowing Pop though he’d continue to play Keldon at the 4 and the Spurs will keep treading water on defense and get hammered on the boards.

[RC_Drunkford]

Honestly looking at the cap they should do it. Not that I think LaVine is a franchise player, but if the Spurs let Lonnie, Wieskamp and Cacok go their cap is at 72 million. They would still have J-Rich and McDermott on the books. If you trade them (or let J-Rich expire) that should give you enough room to extend the rooks and Poeltl. It's better than signing a bunch of mediocre guys. My position to this scenario is kind of neutral tbh

[Ocotillo]

If Zach signed here, the Spurs could have 3 Joshes and 2 Zachs on the roster.

[tbdog]

Is it possible to get gobert for McDermott, Poeltl, and Richardson for gobert, and still sign Lavine at the max?

[objective]

Have no idea if it’s feasible, but would interested to see a s&t along these lines and then an offer to miles bridges. Interestingly these two and DJM are Rich Paul clients, if that means anything.

The Klutch thing stands out to me at least in regards to Lavine.

Spurs might be one of the few teams that actually has a good relationship with Rich Paul, and didn't seem to hold the Morris fiasco against him, even helping him out with Lyles.

People might wonder why Lavine would ever leave the big city and the huge market ... Well that big market got him a deal with New Balance, just like Dejounte. Sure the money might not be equal, but it's not like being in the Chicago market did anything big like his own Nike deal, he's slumming with NB.

[tbdog]

I do find it difficult for Lavine to want to come here unless we show we can build a good team off the bat. And if you take my scenario where spurs trade Poeltl, josh Richardson and McDermott for gobert - then a starting line up of Murray, Lavine, Vassell, Johnson, gobert is damn strong. But the bench of primo, Collins, diop, Jones is really weak.

[HemisfairArena]

Its strange when we all agree,,,I think LaVine would be a great fit for this team. Where we are gonna disagree is,,,I think there is no way he signs here. He wants to go to a contender,,,,Spurs are not a contender regardless how much you think of Murray.

[Slippy]

Its strange when we all agree,,,I think LaVine would be a great fit for this team. Where we are gonna disagree is,,,I think there is no way he signs here. He wants to go to a contender,,,,Spurs are not a contender regardless how much you think of Murray.

Hate to break it to you especially if you live in san antonio. It ain the contender status. Its the small town feel as opposed to big vibrant city that puts off free agents coming to SA.

[HemisfairArena]

Hate to break it to you especially if you live in san antonio. It ain the contender status. Its the small town feel as opposed to big vibrant city that puts off free agents coming to SA.

So youre saying if this situation was in the mid 2000's with a prime Duncan, Parker,,,and Manu,,,,LaVine would decline playing for that contender because the market was to small?,,,,:lmao

[T Park]

On second thought, Lakers might be all over him as Westbrook replacement.

They’d have to work miracles to be able to get him. Literal miracles.

[T Park]

Judging by how many deals get announced within hours of free agency I’m not sure that’s how it actually goes down. We cleared the cap pretty quickly to bring in LMA.

Aldridge was in SA shopping for houses the week after getting knocked out of the playoffs

[KingKev]

Agree -- the combo of Doug, Richardson, Langford's contract gets you close the the ~30M you'd need. Tack on Jock, KBD and you get closer to ~32M. Only contract there with value is Richardson, so spurs probably have to tack on a pick to dispose of Doug. Others can just be waived by CHI.

why would Chicago do this? Why not just let him walk.

[KingKev]

Honestly looking at the cap they should do it. Not that I think LaVine is a franchise player, but if the Spurs let Lonnie, Wieskamp and Cacok go their cap is at 72 million. They would still have J-Rich and McDermott on the books. If you trade them (or let J-Rich expire) that should give you enough room to extend the rooks and Poeltl. It's better than signing a bunch of mediocre guys. My position to this scenario is kind of neutral tbh

72mm is too low. Letting those guys go gets you to about 82mm with an expected 122mm cap so 40 in space for the rookies and free agents.

[Slippy]

So youre saying if this situation was in the mid 2000's with a prime Duncan, Parker,,,and Manu,,,,LaVine would decline playing for that contender because the market was to small?,,,,:lmao

That situation did happen . Spurs hardly got any major FAs come there aside from Lamarcus who was always coming back to texas . Michael Finley on the tail end of his career comes to mind.

The dont care about the market size. Its about where they going to live.

[KingKev]

I do find it difficult for Lavine to want to come here unless we show we can build a good team off the bat. And if you take my scenario where spurs trade Poeltl, josh Richardson and McDermott for gobert - then a starting line up of Murray, Lavine, Vassell, Johnson, gobert is damn strong. But the bench of primo, Collins, diop, Jones is really weak.

Utah isn’t trading Gobert for those scraps lol

[CGD]

why would Chicago do this? Why not just let him walk.

I’m pretty sure they’re over the cap if he walks, so they just have the MLE to improve the roster. Trade gets them a year of Richardson and a pick. They may even find keita and/or Jock serviceable, or they can just save about 3M by waiving them. And, I believe in this case they would still ALSO have the MLE to improve.

Or they can let him walk for nothing and hope to improve with the MLE alone.

[KingKev]

I’m pretty sure they’re over the cap if he walks, so they just have the MLE to improve the roster. Trade gets them a year of Richardson and a pick. They may even find keita and/or Jock serviceable, or they can just save about 3M by waiving them. And, I believe in this case they would still ALSO have the MLE to improve.

Or they can let him walk for nothing and hope to improve with the MLE alone.

If Lavine is leaving they are going to have to blow it up. Not sure they want our trash (McDermott) and JRich and a first so start their rebuild.

If Lavine decides he wants San Antonio first we may have some leverage via sign and trade, especially if we also have the cap to sign him outright. If it’s a race between 3-4 teams your going to have to entice the Bulls with young assets and draft picks.

[KobesAchilles]

Utah would be lucky to even get that offer. And dumb to turn it down. Trading a Top 10 center on Poeltl for Gobert is pretty stupid. There are ZERO things Gobert does better than Jak.

Also Zach would be our best shooter, transition player, and driver to the hoop, all in one. You pay those guys 40 million a year now and don’t look back. The west isn’t really too heavy anymore where we would have zero shot of winning a round. Like we could beat Memphis or Denver or Dallas or whoever if we have this back court.

[montgod]

Beal has nerve problems that wrecked his shot and his shot is really all he had. Would definitely want to hear some opinions from doctors how well that can be rehabbed.

His shot is still money, but I'm with you in seeing what will happen with that injury. He hurt his wrist which made him get surgery and sit out the rest of the season so maybe it heals faster with all this time off. Yeah probably not an ideal FA addition though with his age and all.

[montgod]

You make some great points, but I was more intrigued at this. Beal over Lavine?! I don't think I'd take Beal (and his upcoming extension) on most scenarios, nevermind his asking price. He's old, injured, slow, bad D. Good player in a vacuum but I haven't been surprised at Washington's lack of success under him. Surprising to hear you'd rather have him than Lavine in this scenario.

I know they are just stats, but in looking at both their numbers, they are both really close even defensively. If Beal is healthy, then I can't see how he isn't the better player and one with more playoff success than Lavine. You're right though, age-wise (going to be 29 in June), and more appropriate for this team, Lavine would be the better option long term despite Lavine's knee injuries. I thought he was a year younger than what he is.

[baseline bum]

His shot is still money, but I'm with you in seeing what will happen with that injury. He hurt his wrist which made him get surgery and sit out the rest of the season so maybe it heals faster with all this time off. Yeah probably not an ideal FA addition though with his age and all.

He shot 30% from the three last year, worse than White or Murray. If his shot is money it was the ruble.

[exstatic]

His shot is still money, but I'm with you in seeing what will happen with that injury. He hurt his wrist which made him get surgery and sit out the rest of the season so maybe it heals faster with all this time off. Yeah probably not an ideal FA addition though with his age and all.

The surgery apparently caused nerve damage, and destroyed his shot. 30% is not money.

[ZeusWillJudge]

He shot 30% from the three last year, worse than White or Murray. If his shot is money it was the ruble.


Heh. The Ruble has recovered everything it lost.

On the other hand, I didn't jump out and buy a bunch of Rubles when they were in the tank. I didn't knwo he had nerve damage, but if that's true I would probably let someone else invest in him.

[montgod]

Heh. The Ruble has recovered everything it lost.

On the other hand, I didn't jump out and buy a bunch of Rubles when they were in the tank. I didn't knwo he had nerve damage, but if that's true I would probably let someone else invest in him.

Yeah... he's on that hometown money where his team probably will be the only want to give him that big money.

[Mr. Body]

Heh. The Ruble has recovered everything it lost.

On the other hand, I didn't jump out and buy a bunch of Rubles when they were in the tank. I didn't knwo he had nerve damage, but if that's true I would probably let someone else invest in him.

Russia has exerted a ton of measures to get the ruble back, like an absurd 20% interest rate and forcing domestic firms to convert immediately to rubles after international trade. They're propping the poor currency up and it's going to crash eventually.

[pad300]

Utah would be lucky to even get that offer. And dumb to turn it down. Trading a Top 10 center on Poeltl for Gobert is pretty stupid. There are ZERO things Gobert does better than Jak.
...

You're better than this. Sure, Gobert's overpaid, but for one thing, he can actually handle a traditional style big (say Valancuinas) going at him with intent to score...

[ZeusWillJudge]

Russia has exerted a ton of measures to get the ruble back, like an absurd 20% interest rate and forcing domestic firms to convert immediately to rubles after international trade. They're propping the poor currency up and it's going to crash eventually.


Oh, man, I didn't want to get into a political discussion. Just saying that if Beal really does have nerve damage, it sort of changes the calculus. If he fully recovers, I'm happy for him, but if he doesn't that would be a huge disaster for the Spurs.

[wildbill2u]

Malcontent stars are the exact sort that does not want or that SA should not want.

Just when you think Spurs Talk doesn't have anyone with common sense, a new star commentator appears. :bobo

[XDT76]

If Lavine is leaving they are going to have to blow it up. Not sure they want our trash (McDermott) and JRich and a first so start their rebuild.

If Lavine decides he wants San Antonio first we may have some leverage via sign and trade, especially if we also have the cap to sign him outright. If it’s a race between 3-4 teams your going to have to entice the Bulls with young assets and draft picks.

Actually I thought trade and sign Lavine is quite a good preposition for them with JRich, McD and a 1st pick (their own 2025 pick). If Lavine does not sign with them they have quite a limited option for next season. They might as well roll with the trade, with JRich taking over as SF they would have quite a mean D. J Rich might not be a prolific scorer but he provide decent O especially on 3 and cut. It would allow their SL to be more balanced. Also they have a good 3pt shooter in the reserve which could be a microwave scorer. If the experiment fail they could trade J Rich at trade line day for some asset and then do the same maybe 1 year later with McD. So instead of letting Lavine just walk free they have a chance to see whether they could go deep in playoff or flip some players for more asset for their rebuilt.

As for the Spurs, if we MAX Lavine then we should not be wasting time and need to sort out our team to bring in players to balance the team more. With this trade we could move McD and free up a slot to get players to balance our team. Also IMO we would need to move KJ out of the SL. We should not have more than 1 weak perimeter defender (I hate KJ as a PF even more). Get Primo to work out his new 3 shoot mechanics this off season and get him as the new SF with the role of solely 3 and D (especially on ball D). Then sort out a PF for the SL and let Vassell be the main guy of the reserve line up. Move Jak if required to get our PF and draft Sure or sign J Smith. With a competent PF, he will help in some of the D lost by Jak but with Zollin at 5, it helps to open up the lane for DjM and Lavine. End of the day if we wanted to sign Lavine, we need to rework our lineup.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Malcontent stars are the exact sort that does not want or that SA should not want.


Just when you think Spurs Talk doesn't have anyone with common sense, a new star commentator appears.


Is Lavine malcontent? I haven't seen him trashing the Bulls, making demands like Autist or The Brow. Maybe he has, and I just haven't seen it.

The vast majority of this forum think that we were well rid of DeRozan. What if he saw the same thing? If the team is a mess already, and they go out and hire a net-negative with a big salary, and you think you'd like to go play for (for example) the Spurs and Pop... does that make you a malcontent or a competitor? I don't know about the guy's character, or his health. I truly don't. But I do know that he's been a really good player. And if PATFO can't sort out the character and health issues, what chance do they have anyway?

As for getting Lavine AND dumping McBucket's contract, all in one fell swoop? Yeah, gimme some of that. I'm not sure it could happen unless the Bulls hire Isaiah Thomas as GM, but I guess we can dream.

[NickiRasgo]

If the price is right, why not tho I'm not high on him.
But it concerns me that it'll require a sign-and-trade (like with Derozan last season) with Bulls means Spurs have to give something as well like pick/s or future pick/s.

[vy65]

Is Lavine malcontent? I haven't seen him trashing the Bulls, making demands like Autist or The Brow. Maybe he has, and I just haven't seen it.

The vast majority of this forum think that we were well rid of DeRozan. What if he saw the same thing? If the team is a mess already, and they go out and hire a net-negative with a big salary, and you think you'd like to go play for (for example) the Spurs and Pop... does that make you a malcontent or a competitor? I don't know about the guy's character, or his health. I truly don't. But I do know that he's been a really good player. And if PATFO can't sort out the character and health issues, what chance do they have anyway?

As for getting Lavine AND dumping McBucket's contract, all in one fell swoop? Yeah, gimme some of that. I'm not sure it could happen unless the Bulls hire Isaiah Thomas as GM, but I guess we can dream.

I don’t know if Levine is a malcontent or not, but I was responding to a poster saying to no go after him because some malcontent superstar will inevitably become available and would somehow be a better fit for the team.

[CGD]

If Lavine is leaving they are going to have to blow it up. Not sure they want our trash (McDermott) and JRich and a first so start their rebuild.

If Lavine decides he wants San Antonio first we may have some leverage via sign and trade, especially if we also have the cap to sign him outright. If it’s a race between 3-4 teams your going to have to entice the Bulls with young assets and draft picks.

I disagree. I don’t think they feel that they have to blow it up if he leaves, which is probably why they haven’t maxed him yet. I’m not suggesting they’re a contender, but they’ve invested into that Vuc/DDR pairing for another 2 years, and have good young pieces Ball, Williams, Caruso, and even White. But real talk: they weren’t a contender with Levine either.

Agree we have leverage as one of few teams with cap space. The cap teams this summer aside (or including us depending on who you ask) are pretty shitty/meh situations this summer (Orlando, OKC, DET, Houston), so onus will be on Zach to do the heavy lifting to find a sign and trade in a more attractive market that CHI would also accept. Or he can just say F it, signal intent to sign here, and put CHI in a tough spot of taking our meh package or lose him for nothing.

[Seventyniner]

Is Lavine malcontent? I haven't seen him trashing the Bulls, making demands like Autist or The Brow. Maybe he has, and I just haven't seen it.

The vast majority of this forum think that we were well rid of DeRozan. What if he saw the same thing? If the team is a mess already, and they go out and hire a net-negative with a big salary, and you think you'd like to go play for (for example) the Spurs and Pop... does that make you a malcontent or a competitor? I don't know about the guy's character, or his health. I truly don't. But I do know that he's been a really good player. And if PATFO can't sort out the character and health issues, what chance do they have anyway?

As for getting Lavine AND dumping McBucket's contract, all in one fell swoop? Yeah, gimme some of that. I'm not sure it could happen unless the Bulls hire Isaiah Thomas as GM, but I guess we can dream.

I don't see talking about keeping one's options open as a free agent as being a malcontent at all. Real malcontents undermine their own team while they are still under contract.

Personally, I think Lavine is worth a max slot given the Spurs' roster makeup and cap situation, but only if this surgery causes him to miss little if any time and he will be 100% once he's recovered. Signing someone with a chronic knee injury for 4/160 would be a disaster.

[jjspur]

LaVine is a decent player but I'm sure the spurs are weighing all their options which may or may not not include spending 40 million plus on just one player. They are a rather conservative organization and spending that much money on one player seems at bit out of the box for them. This is the cost of a player in this new NBA and I'm not sure the spurs have adjusted to that idea just yet. We'll see in a few months.

[poopbox]

Why exactly would Zach Lavine come to San Antonio in the first place?

[vy65]

Why exactly would Zach Lavine come to San Antonio in the first place?

Max contract and to play with his Seattle buddy

[Mr. Body]

Why exactly would Zach Lavine come to San Antonio in the first place?

Breakfast tacos.

[tbdog]

Utah isn’t trading Gobert for those scraps lol

They'll trade him

[pad300]

I wouldn't sign LaVine for a max this summer. I see Demar Derozen v2.0; a very good scorer but not a winner. I hope that the FO has learned that lesson, especially with LaVine needing knee surgery...

[GAustex]

Maybe he was hurt but Levine looked scared/worried as Bucks surged on Bulls

[baseline bum]

I wouldn't sign LaVine for a max this summer. I see Demar Derozen v2.0; a very good scorer but not a winner. I hope that the FO has learned that lesson, especially with LaVine needing knee surgery...

Lavine can hit three and you have to guard him out there, instantly makes him a way better fit for this team than DeRozan.

[KingKev]

Lavine can hit three and you have to guard him out there, instantly makes him a way better fit for this team than DeRozan.

Funny how that seems to go over ppls head. 40% on 7-8 attempts the last 3 years and counting. He can get his 3 ball off in many ways. The DDR comparisons are weak. Also he’d likely be playing exclusively at the 2 not 3/4 like DDR.

[pad300]

Lavine can hit three and you have to guard him out there, instantly makes him a way better fit for this team than DeRozan.


Funny how that seems to go over ppls head. 40% on 7-8 attempts the last 3 years and counting. He can get his 3 ball off in many ways. The DDR comparisons are weak. Also he’d likely be playing exclusively at the 2 not 3/4 like DDR.

No, I have not missed that LaVine can shoot the 3. Have you missed that he's been in the league 7 years, played 1 playoff series (lost 4-1), and never posted a season +/- that's positive? He's not a guy who wins ball games, and thus I am not comfortable paying him $160M over 4 years.

[MultiTroll]

Hearing repeated 'because there is no one else out there'
and
"Have to do it now"
Panic buying.

Don't like the price tag nor double knee surgeries.
Would be immediate boost for 2023, but then up is pretty much the only way the Pop-Bryn Era Spurs can now go.

Will another good FA come along in the next year or two? I'm gonna say yes. If not, will own it then.
Just as you can own Levines knee blowing or otherwise tank if so.

If Levine leads Spurs to Championship i will have koriwhat tattoo Pop Rules on my anus.

[mystargtr34]

People need to let the championship or bust mentality go imo. I’d rather be a team fighting for a top 4 seed and being in the mix of winning 2 or 3 playoff series and losing conference semis or finals than being a treadmill playin team for years while hoping middling prospects picked in the 10-14 draft range somehow miraculously turn into superstars.

The only team that has won an NBA championship without a top 6-7 player in the NBA in the last 30 years are the 2014 Spurs, and the 2004 Pistons. That’s it.

Everyone NBA champion since 1991 had Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Wade (with Shaq), Kobe (with Pau), Dirk, Lebron, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Giannis. All top 7 players, arguably top 5 players if you count Curry, Wade as top 5.

The Spurs can’t wait around for one of those players before they start considering signing all-stars to big money contracts.

If you are in the mix you can get lucky with injuries like the Heat did in 2020 or the Bucks in 2021 and make NBA finals. You can also get lucky with a disgruntled superstar and trade for them if you have assets like a Lavine.

[Biggems]

Ive had a second thought. I trust the Spurs medical staff, but what I don’t want to see is a Chandler Parsons situation, where Dallas didn’t want to re-sign him for Dirk’s twilight because they suspected the knees were a time bomb, Memphis maxed him out and the guy never played to his old standards again. I trust the Spurs medical staff to catch any medical concerns. If they aren’t interested I’ll assume this was a reason.

How can you trust our medical staff after the way they mistreated Nephew.....LOL

[Biggems]

^ it’s not about winning now it’s about landing a marquee free agent.

Imagine being a virgin who doesn't get girls and turning down a pretty girl who might actually like you because you have a crush in the prom queen.

That pretty girl comes at a very high cost though. We aren't talking about the cutie next door, who knows you and will probably give you a discount. No, the pretty girl you speak of comes and a very high price, so much so that we have to mortgage a lot of our promising future just to be with her. NO THANK YOU.

[KingKev]

That pretty girl comes at a very high cost though. We aren't talking about the cutie next door, who knows you and will probably give you a discount. No, the pretty girl you speak of comes and a very high price, so much so that we have to mortgage a lot of our promising future just to be with her. NO THANK YOU.

What promising future?

[lefty]

Lavine is better than Jordan but in today’s NBA he’s not a #1 option tbh

[BatManu20]

Still don’t think he leaves Chicago. He’d be leaving like $50M+ on the table if he signed a Max somewhere else. Think this is all just posturing on his part with the Bulls, letting them know he won’t settle for anything less than a Max there.

With that said, his quotes these past few days definitely have Bulls fans on edge. We’ll see what happens.

[JPB]

Lavine definitely represents a dilemma. Spurs need some star power and Lavine has the look of it but comes with questions marks as well... Is he reaaly worth a max? Do spurs really have to overpay if they want to drag marquee FAs? His net negative and post season history are real concerns and I agree woith the "panic buy" warning.

You need someone in your life and there's that chick who broke up... She's so perfect, the woman of you life, you idealize her, see all the qualities in her... Two years later she's a total bitch with all the defaults on earth who wasted two years of your life (reverse you and the girl if you wish)...

You should always try not to be emotional in such situtations and try stay pragmatical and clinical... That's why I'd be curious to hear about opinions from Bulls and other teams fans concerning spurs eventually offering the max to Lavine... Honestly I don't really know although I agree that signing Lavine would bring some excitement and ambition. So I'd probably tend to do it anyway, with the risks it includes. It could give a boost to the whole roster and maybe lift Murray even higher.

[JPB]

Still don’t think he leaves Chicago. He’d be leaving like $50M+ on the table if he signed a Max somewhere else. Think this is all just posturing on his part with the Bulls, letting them know he won’t settle for anything less than a Max there.

With that said, his quotes these past few days definitely have Bulls fans on edge. We’ll see what happens.

That's what sign and trades are made for.

[KingKev]

Still don’t think he leaves Chicago. He’d be leaving like $50M+ on the table if he signed a Max somewhere else. Think this is all just posturing on his part with the Bulls, letting them know he won’t settle for anything less than a Max there.

With that said, his quotes these past few days definitely have Bulls fans on edge. We’ll see what happens.


4yrs 160mm vs 5yrs 210ish I believe so its really only 10mm. If he makes an all-nba team they can suoer max him for 245ish over 5 yrs.

If he wanted to come here a sign and trade could be worked easily given our cap space. Wouldn’t have to give Chicago much to make it work as we could absorb him into our cap. JRich and an FRP.

[offset formation]

What promising future?

3 FRPs, more in years to come, lots of cap space, and at least one or two young players with positive development projections.

If we play our cards right, get a little luck, make the right trades,then there is a promising future.

[offset formation]

Still don’t think he leaves Chicago. He’d be leaving like $50M+ on the table if he signed a Max somewhere else. Think this is all just posturing on his part with the Bulls, letting them know he won’t settle for anything less than a Max there.

With that said, his quotes these past few days definitely have Bulls fans on edge. We’ll see what happens.

And based on how they talked about San Antonio being the hell hole to player reputation in that video, it doesn't sound like he'll be coming here.

[R. DeMurre]

No, I have not missed that LaVine can shoot the 3. Have you missed that he's been in the league 7 years, played 1 playoff series (lost 4-1), and never posted a season +/- that's positive? He's not a guy who wins ball games, and thus I am not comfortable paying him $160M over 4 years.


The one positive I see in signing him is he can be flipped later with other assets down the line. There are always teams impressed by big raw stats. That, plus it's just a bad year for free agents unfortunately. LaVine's Similarity Score player comps on Basketball Reference are Steve Blake, Marco Belinelli, and Bimbo Coles. That's pretty brutal for a supposed Max Player. His on court +/- and On/Off +/- charts look eerily like DeRozan's. They certainly don't look anything like Manu's or Kawhi's. Maybe in 4 years, untraded, we'll be reading an article about how LaVine was a net negative or borderline net neutral player for the Spurs, though it was kinda fun to see him score a bunch. But, to be serious, what if a genuinely impactful future star is looking to be traded: would his team look at an offer of LaVine, KJ, and a FRP? Most likely, they would.

[objective]

While I would be happy to lose Keldon in a sign and trade, I do think that if there is a free agent recruitment meeting with Lavine, having Keldon there with Dejounte would probably be in their favor seeing as how they were teammates on the Olympic team.

[gambit1990]

lavine has grown on me... definitely not my favorite player but the spurs also need star power...

[Ariel]

Well... following the pretty girl analogy, I'd say it's more like you come out of jail and you come across this pretty girl, who may have this weird STD that causes erectile dysfunction for 5 years and will take everything you have if that happens. Can you keep it in your pants, knowing the potential consequences? Do you go for a not so pretty girl at the moment, and work on your situation to improve your chances? Quite a conundrum...

[R. DeMurre]

Well... following the pretty girl analogy, I'd say it's more like you come out of jail and you come across this pretty girl, who may have this weird STD that causes erectile dysfunction for 5 years and will take everything you have if that happens. Can you keep it in your pants, knowing the potential consequences? Do you go for a not so pretty girl at the moment, and work on your situation to improve your chances? Quite a conundrum...


:lol

[tmtcsc]

The correct answer is Brunson, not Lavine. HARD PASS

[tmtcsc]

Still don’t think he leaves Chicago. He’d be leaving like $50M+ on the table if he signed a Max somewhere else. Think this is all just posturing on his part with the Bulls, letting them know he won’t settle for anything less than a Max there.

With that said, his quotes these past few days definitely have Bulls fans on edge. We’ll see what happens.

He is not worth a MAX in any shape, way or form. Completely ridiculous notion tbh. What has he ever done to consider himself worthy of a max contract?

[Fireball]

not interested at all ... can shoot the 3 but still feels like empty calories as does Demar ... also too injury prone IMO

[bluebellmaniac]

You put in a healthy competitive bid for LaVine so that Chicago has to go above or match. That is the goal. Just handicap them going forward on salary by making them retain him.

If we get him, it won't be a max and is still a win for us.

[mo7888]

You put in a healthy competitive bid for LaVine so that Chicago has to go above or match. That is the goal. Just handicap them going forward on salary by making them retain him.

If we get him, it won't be a max and is still a win for us.

Offer him the max...let Chicago beat it if they want to keep him...

[rjv]

this really is more of a big red town than mountain dew. i think LaVine stays in Chi Town.

[KingKev]

You put in a healthy competitive bid for LaVine so that Chicago has to go above or match. That is the goal. Just handicap them going forward on salary by making them retain him.

If we get him, it won't be a max and is still a win for us.

There is only one price that clears the market and it is the max.

[SpurSpike]

The correct answer is Brunson, not Lavine. HARD PASS

Brunson would be a solid addition and could probably be had for a fraction of the price. Only thing i don't like is that he is only 6'1" so Zack Lavine fits the roster better but at a much higher cost.

[KingKev]

Brunson would be a solid addition and could probably be had for a fraction of the price. Only thing i don't like is that he is only 6'1" so Zack Lavine fits the roster better but at a much higher cost.

This is ridiculous. Completely different players. Lavine is better in every regard, and fills an actual need in terms of a goto scorer and volume 3 pt shooter. We don’t need a score first PG. Brunson is going to get 20mm or more anyways.

[SpursBig3s]

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/nba-salary-cap-expert-explains-why-it-is-almost-impossible-for-the-lakers-to-sign-zach-lavine-this-offseason-if-the-lakers-acquire-a-player-via-sign-and-trade-they-have-a-hard-cap

[BatManu20]

Lakers Twitter in full offseason mode :lol


1521670610484490240

[tbdog]

This is ridiculous. Completely different players. Lavine is better in every regard, and fills an actual need in terms of a goto scorer and volume 3 pt shooter. We don’t need a score first PG. Brunson is going to get 20mm or more anyways.

And brunson is older

[Ignazzz]

Lakers Twitter in full offseason mode :lol


1521670610484490240

for minimum?

[BatManu20]

for minimum?

Chicago would obviously have to agree to a sign-and-trade with AD for this to happen, or they’d have to offload AD elsewhere without taking back much, if any, salary, and then sign him outright. Sounds like more of a Laker pipe dream though than a realistic possibility.

[CGD]

Chicago would obviously have to agree to a sign-and-trade with AD for this to happen, or they’d have to offload AD elsewhere without taking back much, if any, salary, and then sign him outright. Sounds like more of a Laker pipe dream though than a realistic possibility.

Don’t worry, he’s coming for the MLE and he’s even gonna leave a little so they can sign more players too. Freakin Lakers, lol

[mo7888]

I doubt LA gives up AD for Lavine..

[BatManu20]

This of course is assuming some team doesn’t bail the lakers out and trade for Westbrook, which open up cap space for LaVine. There’s only a couple of teams stupid enough to do so but you never know. All it takes is one.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

This of course is assuming some team doesn’t bail the lakers out and trade for Westbrook, which open up cap space for LaVine. There’s only a couple of teams stupid enough to do so but you never know. All it takes is one.

Even if there's a team to absorb the whole Westbrook contract into cap space it still wouldn't leave enough for Lavine, it'd have to be a sign and trade.

[exstatic]

Don’t worry, he’s coming for the MLE and he’s even gonna leave a little so they can sign more players too. Freakin Lakers, lol

I can guarantee that at 27, Zach Lavine is doing no such thing. This is his last chance for a long term MAX contract. If LA wants him, they’ll have to work out a S&T that pays him the full bag.

[exstatic]

This of course is assuming some team doesn’t bail the lakers out and trade for Westbrook, which open up cap space for LaVine. There’s only a couple of teams stupid enough to do so but you never know. All it takes is one.

If a team absorbs Westbrooks entire deal, it barely opens more than the MLE.

[exstatic]

Oh, and signing and trading for Lavine would hard cap LA.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Oh, and signing and trading for Lavine would hard cap LA.


I had to wait between clicks to hand out all three thumbs up for your last posts.

Don't forget, though, that most people just don't understand the salary cap complications. It seems like big market teams like LA can just sign whoever they want to. And the fact is that they can afford to go deeper into lux tax than most teams, so that's part of their strategy. People don't see smaller teams doing that, so they just assume that LA can spend whatever they want, and get whoever they want.

Westbrook has to be the worst contract in the NBA right now. There may be some lower-paid guys who are worthless, but his contract is so big it's crippling and at the same time he just doesn't provide as much return as Curry. Plus he'll be 34 about the time next season starts.

Now that I said that, he'll probably come out and have his best season ever. But I wouldn't bet my franchise on it.

[CGD]

I can guarantee that at 27, Zach Lavine is doing no such thing. This is his last chance for a long term MAX contract. If LA wants him, they’ll have to work out a S&T that pays him the full bag.

I was being sarcastic. Of course Lavine isn't taking 8M a year. I'm reacting to Lakers fans being delusional yet again about being able to land top talent for peanuts ala DDR last year, even when their cap situation is shit and they have little to show for the investment notwithstanding the asterisks/YMCA pickup game/COVID championship.

[XDT76]

While the Lakers is at it might as well say Westbrook decline his player option and Lakers trade AD and Nunn for Coby White, PatWil a bulls 23 and 27 FRP + sign and trade Lavine.

[exstatic]

While the Lakers is at it might as well say Westbrook decline his player option and Lakers trade AD and Nunn for Coby White, PatWil a bulls 23 and 27 FRP + sign and trade Lavine.

I know you’re being sarcastic, but CHIs 2023 FRP and 2025 FRP are already spoken for, and since there is a 3 year protection window on the 2025 FRP, CHI can’t trade a future pick until 2030 because of the worst case scenario where the 2023 pick doesn’t convey until 2024 or not at all, and our 3 draft clock starts in 2026 and runs thru 2028.

[KingKev]

I know you’re being sarcastic, but CHIs 2023 FRP and 2025 FRP are already spoken for, and since there is a 3 year protection window on the 2025 FRP, CHI can’t trade a future pick until 2030 because of the worst case scenario where the 2023 pick doesn’t convey until 2024 or not at all, and our 3 draft clock starts in 2026 and runs thru 2028.

Mortgaged their future for Vuc and DDR. If Lavine leaves that 2025 pick will be nice.

[Proxy]

Manu threw LaVine an alley oop for the NBA 75 commercial, I think it’s a done deal imho

[SequSpur]

Spurs need a real pg and a big that’s all. Zach is a loser like Dejounte

[scott]

I know you’re being sarcastic, but CHIs 2023 FRP and 2025 FRP are already spoken for, and since there is a 3 year protection window on the 2025 FRP, CHI can’t trade a future pick until 2030 because of the worst case scenario where the 2023 pick doesn’t convey until 2024 or not at all, and our 3 draft clock starts in 2026 and runs thru 2028.

This is a good summation of why the window is slightly open for the Spurs to make a move for Lavine. For everyone who asks "Why would he leave CHI for us?!?!" This is why. CHI went all in for now, and fell miserably short, and odds are that Vuc and DDR are getting worse, not better. Spurs, on the other hand, have cap space and lots of picks.

I'm not saying that gives us the advantage, but it is was leaves the door open.

[MultiTroll]

While the Lakers is at it might as well say Westbrook decline his player option and Lakers trade AD and Nunn for Coby White, PatWil a bulls 23 and 27 FRP + sign and trade Lavine.


I know you’re being sarcastic, but CHIs 2023 FRP and 2025 FRP are already spoken for, and since there is a 3 year protection window on the 2025 FRP, CHI can’t trade a future pick until 2030 because of the worst case scenario where the 2023 pick doesn’t convey until 2024 or not at all, and our 3 draft clock starts in 2026 and runs thru 2028.
Perhaps, but with sleazeball Lakers org one could see them giving Westchuck his 45 million under the table to go away.

[KingKev]

Perhaps, but with sleazeball Lakers org one could see them giving Westchuck his 45 million under the table to go away.

Conspiracist fans are next level DUMB. Can’t take two minutes to google readily available information regarding salary cap but put forth these brain farts.

[exstatic]

Perhaps, but with sleazeball Lakers org one could see them giving Westchuck his 45 million under the table to go away.

There is no way to convey $45M under the table. In the past, in tampering investigations, the NBA has gotten information from cell phones. I think part of any NBA contract, player, coach, or FO, there are things you must give up if there's an investigation. Bank records would probably be on that list.

[MultiTroll]

Conspiracist fans are next level DUMB. Can’t take two minutes to google readily available information regarding salary cap but put forth these brain farts.
Morons who think corruption has not and does not take place in professional sports.

Have a cup.

[MultiTroll]

There is no way to convey $45M under the table. In the past, in tampering investigations, the NBA has gotten information from cell phones. I think part of any NBA contract, player, coach, or FO, there are things you must give up if there's an investigation. Bank records would probably be on that list.
Plenty of ways to transfer value other then straight cash exchange.
Super good deal on real estate.
Insider stock tips.
Etc etc.

Kwame Brown for MVPau you think was shrewed Laker braintrust and helpless Memphis? Whom oh by the way Jerry West left as GM.
Don't believe for a second that phaggot wasn't still involved with Lakers Inc.

[exstatic]

Plenty of ways to transfer value other then straight cash exchange.
Super good deal on real estate.
Insider stock tips.
Etc etc.

Kwame Brown for MVPau you think was shrewed Laker braintrust and helpless Memphis. Whom oh by the way Jerry West just left.

Just left? Try 2007. He was the architect of KD to GS, and has since been tainted in the LAC tampering of Kawhi.

[MultiTroll]

Just left? Try 2007. He was the architect of KD to GS, and has since been tainted in the LAC tampering of Kawhi.
Yes and Pau joined the Lakers in the 2007-08 season.
Certainly recently enough for West to have facilitated bullshit illicit deals with Memphis owners.
KD and LAC Kawhi tampering just more smoke that corruption follows this sleazeball.

[offset formation]

Yes and Pau joined the Lakers in the 2007-08 season.
Certainly recently enough for West to have facilitated bullshit illicit deals with Memphis owners.
KD and LAC Kawhi tampering just more smoke that corruption follows this sleazeball.

That Pau deal stunk from the get-go.

[Dex]

Per Windhorst:



ESPN's Brian Windhorst reported at the 22:00 mark of his Hoop Collective podcast Tuesday that the initial impression around the NBA was that LaVine was "off the market." Now, there isn't as much certainty about him staying in Chicago.

Windhorst added that the Portland Trail Blazers have "popped up" as a potential landing spot.

[exstatic]

Per Windhorst:

Honestly? I'm kind of meh about throwing that much at a borderline AS. I'd rather Portland do that, and have him stunting Anfernee Simons growth and not Vassell and Primo's. Portland will have to shed some salary, though. They have less cap room than we do.

[superbigtime]

I remember TP always gave props to LaVine.

[Dex]

Honestly? I'm kind of meh about throwing that much at a borderline AS. I'd rather Portland do that, and have him stunting Anfernee Simons growth and not Vassell and Primo's. Portland will have to shed some salary, though. They have less cap room than we do.

Yeah, I'm on the fence with LaVine.

On one hand, he's got ties with DJ and the Spurs are hard pressed to bring big name FAs into San Antonio...so I wouldn't mind them making a pitch but we'd probably have to overpay.

On the other hand...I wouldn't put him in the top tier of players and while he would undoubtedly improve the team, I don't know if he is the type of talent to make us contenders again. We'd also be trying to fit a star 2/3 onto a team that is already loaded with 2/3s.

[BatManu20]

Dame and LaVine would be such a horrendous defensive backcourt pairing. And while LaVine is definitely better than McCollum, I don’t think the gap is so wide that this pairing would make them anything more than Second Round fodder (depending on who they draft).

Trying to build a championship contender with two Guards as your best players is the hardest route imo. Unless they’re the two greatest shooters ever like Steph and Klay and surrounded by great defensive players, it almost never works. Not since the Bad Boys Pistons, and the league’s changed drastically since then.

But he’s from the PNW so I could see why he’d be interested.

[exstatic]

Dame and LaVine would be such a horrendous defensive backcourt pairing. And while LaVine is definitely better than McCollum, I don’t think the gap is so wide that this pairing would make them anything more than Second Round fodder (depending on who they draft).

Trying to build a championship contender with two Guards as your best players is the hardest route imo. Almost never works. Not since the Bad Boys Pistons, and the league’s changed drastically since then.

But he’s from the PNW so I could see why he’d be interested.

Golden State?

[BatManu20]

Golden State?

You quoted me right as I was updating it. Like I said, unless you’re the greatest shooters of all time like Steph and Klay, and surrounded by great defensive players like Draymond and Bogut, it doesn’t work. And even then, the one championship that Golden State won without KD (2015), they lucked out with the Cavs losing both Kyrie and Kevin Love in that series due to injury. Otherwise they almost certainly win.

[KingKev]

DJ and Lavine complement each other nicely. No decision about this roster should be made because we have Josh Primo and Devin Vassell. That’s an absolute joke.

if and when they become solid bench players we wil be paying them both 15mm at extension time. Or we can spend 35mm now on an NBA AS.

[exstatic]

DJ and Lavine complement each other nicely. No decision about this roster should be made because we have Josh Primo and Devin Vassell. That’s an absolute joke.

if and when they become solid bench players we wil be paying them both 15mm at extension time. Or we can spend 35mm now on an NBA AS.

Lavine's baseline is probably getting us into the top 6 in the West. His peak will be getting us to #4 in the West, no higher, and getting bounced in the second round, if not the first. THAT is why I have some concerns about signing him. He's not a transformative player. He won't get you into the Finals. He won't even get you into the Conference Finals. He's not worth derailing a couple of development projects.

I would feel better about signing him if we hit lottery gold, a top 3 pick. That way, a few years of playoff losses won't be the end, they'll be the platform on which a star might be born, and Lavine can just fade into the background as a #2 or #3.

Devin Vassell is going to be better than Lavine. He's not now, but he will be.

Anyway. this may all be academic. He's supposedly selected his landing spot already.

[KingKev]

Lavine's baseline is probably getting us into the top 6 in the West. His peak will be getting us to #4 in the West, no higher, and getting bounced in the second round, if not the first. THAT is why I have some concerns about signing him. He's not a transformative player. He won't get you into the Finals. He won't even get you into the Conference Finals. He's not worth derailing a couple of development projects.

I would feel better about signing him if we hit lottery gold, a top 3 pick. That way, a few years of playoff losses won't be the end, they'll be the platform on which a star might be born, and Lavine can just fade into the background as a #2 or #3.

Devin Vassell is going to be better than Lavine. He's not now, but he will be.

Anyway. this may all be academic. He's supposedly selected his landing spot already.

He is a no brainer with the top 3 pick.

I don’t see that with Vassell. Nice stroke when he’s feeling it, but limited offensive game otherwise. The early hype regarding his defense is remains just that.

[exstatic]

He is a no brainer with the top 3 pick.

I don’t see that with Vassell. Nice stroke when he’s feeling it, but limited offensive game otherwise. The early hype regarding his defense is remains just that.

Vassell is a 3 level scorer. He is a really good defender, and it's not like Lavine has played defense for most of his career.

The worst thing about LaVine is that he is hurt almost every year. He's played 478 out of approximately 634 games in his 8 seasons. I say approximately, because everyone didn't play the same number of games in the bubble year, but everyone played at least 70, so that was what I used, and that might actually help his % of games played if it was more games played for Chicago. I also accounted for the 72 game season in 20-21. His games played % is a shade over 75%. That's Kawhi territory, and another reason I'm cool to signing him.

[kht]

Dame got like 1 and a half good years left. SAS fits Lavine's timeline better.

[Chinook]

Lavine played 60 out of 65 games during the bubble season. Not every team played 70 games, as many didn't even go into the bubble. In total, Lavine played 185/219 regular-season games over the past three years. That puts him around 85 percent. To put that in perspective, Murray's played in 201/225 games over the same span, which is right around 90 percent. That's probably enough of a difference to be statistically viable, but we are talking about missing 12 games a season as opposed to eight. I don't know how many of those absences were due to COVID, but wouldn't panic over that.

[KingKev]

Lavine played 60 out of 65 games during the bubble season. Not every team played 70 games, as many didn't even go into the bubble. In total, Lavine played 185/219 regular-season games over the past three years. That puts him around 85 percent. To put that in perspective, Murray's played in 201/225 games over the same span, which is right around 90 percent. That's probably enough of a difference to be statistically viable, but we are talking about missing 12 games a season as opposed to eight. I don't know how many of those absences were due to COVID, but wouldn't panic over that.

If we were lucky enough to get Lavine i’d hope we manage his minutes and games best we can. Play a healthy Lavine 60-65 games a year 34 mins a game, few if any back to backs. When Lavine is out Primo can play backup and Vassell can start.

[exstatic]

Lavine played 60 out of 65 games during the bubble season. Not every team played 70 games, as many didn't even go into the bubble. In total, Lavine played 185/219 regular-season games over the past three years. That puts him around 85 percent. To put that in perspective, Murray's played in 201/225 games over the same span, which is right around 90 percent. That's probably enough of a difference to be statistically viable, but we are talking about missing 12 games a season as opposed to eight. I don't know how many of those absences were due to COVID, but wouldn't panic over that.

You are right about the bubble season. I was going off what Bill and Sean said on the telecasts, that the bubble was to get teams to 70 games so that the local TV contracts. were met. Spurs played 71 games. Looks like they only invited teams that had a chance to play in at #9, and almost no one in the EC could make that jump.

You can't just ignore large amounts of games missed earlier in his career and paint a complete health picture. That's pretty much the definition of cherry picking, and shoe horning your data support your conclusions.

[Chinook]

You are right about the bubble season. I was going off what Bill and Sean said on the telecasts, that the bubble was to get teams to 70 games so that the local TV contracts. were met. Spurs played 71 games. Looks like they only invited teams that had a chance to play in at #9, and almost no one in the EC could make that jump.

You can't just ignore large amounts of games missed earlier in his career and paint a complete health picture. That's pretty much the definition of cherry picking, and shoe horning your data support your conclusions.

Three seasons is a massive sample size for current trends. If a player missed most of their first few years but comes back and plays 82 games for three seasons, they don't still carry the "injury prone" label. That's not Lavine, but part of why he's become a good player is because he's been healthy and was able to spend off-seasons improving rather than recovering. That he's currently injured again is a concern, but I am not concerned that he missed a bunch of games on his rookie contract. Murray also missed a bunch of games. Both of them have stayed healthier recently, and that's part of why both are All-Stars. But just like I don't think DJM is a health risk because of his big injury, I don't think Lavine is one because of his big injury. Both guys tore ACLs. The difference is that Lavine's was in the middle of the season and Murray's was in the beginning of the season. DJM missed one full year while Zach missed half of one season and three-quarters of the other.

[scott]

DJ and Lavine complement each other nicely. No decision about this roster should be made because we have Josh Primo and Devin Vassell. That’s an absolute joke.

if and when they become solid bench players we wil be paying them both 15mm at extension time. Or we can spend 35mm now on an NBA AS.

This is correct. Even mentioning Primo or Vassell in relation to whether we should pursue Lavine is laughable.

[KingKev]

Anyway. this may all be academic. He's supposedly selected his landing spot already.

Windhorst literally stated the opposite today. Seems like Lavine is closer to being in play than ever before.

[Proxy]

LaVine on the team makes attracting another good player easier imo, since today's NBA FAs all want to team up with each other and shit. Lebron and KD would probably join for the vet min with a Murray/LaVine backcourt /s

[lmbebo]

I wanna see how the draft lottery plays out next week. If we jump into the top 4, could impact thoughts on adding him.

[Ice009]

I remember TP always gave props to LaVine.

I don't remember that. Interesting if so. I wonder what TP liked about his game back when he was playing as Zach has gotten much better since then.

[rankingtear]

No brainer for me. You can build a playoff team with Lavine to complement DJ and Jakob both are 2 way high impact players. Once you get that high usage volume 3 point scorer it is much cheaper to build the rest of your roster.

[John B]

I wanna see how the draft lottery plays out next week. If we jump into the top 4, could impact thoughts on adding him.

Agree. With the top 4 pick, I’d push for a potential Seattle-Trio, which would jumpstart the Spurs into top 4 in the WC imo. Then maybe another package to get another caliber, while still plenty of young players in the back burner.

[exstatic]

No brainer for me. You can build a playoff team with Lavine to complement DJ and Jakob both are 2 way high impact players. Once you get that high usage volume 3 point scorer it is much cheaper to build the rest of your roster.

We won’t have cap room to do that. LaVine, at $40M/yr, would be it. He’s already said he’s giving no discounts. The only way this works is if we jump into the top 3 picks. I don’t believe Ivey would even do the trick to elevate us to contenders. Only one of the three bigs could turn that trick.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I like Lavine a lot, but that route, for me, would all depend on what the Spurs could put around him. Him gobbling up the cap space probably means not much in terms of other complimentary pieces.

[Dex]

I like Lavine a lot, but that route, for me, would all depend on what the Spurs could put around him. Him gobbling up the cap space probably means not much in terms of other complimentary pieces.

If that's the case, Spurs better draft a long 3 or athletic 4 who hopefully can shoot. I like(d) Murray, White, Walker, Vassell, Primo, etc...and then we go and add McD and Forbes who fell right into the same zone. Good god, enough with the guards.

I typically support going for the best talent available, but we also don't need to be putting together a Pee-Wee team.

[KingKev]

We won’t have cap room to do that. LaVine, at $40M/yr, would be it. He’s already said he’s giving no discounts. The only way this works is if we jump into the top 3 picks. I don’t believe Ivey would even do the trick to elevate us to contenders. Only one of the three bigs could turn that trick.

Lavine is a no brainer with a top 3 pick, especially if you can sign him outright for 4yrs/160mm versus giving up assets in a sign and trade.

You could easily use some combo of McDermott, Jak, Keldon, Vassell, JRich plus draft capital to go over the cap for another max player if the opportunity arose.

[exstatic]

Lavine is a no brainer with a top 3 pick, especially if you can sign him outright for 4yrs/160mm versus giving up assets in a sign and trade.

You could easily use some combo of McDermott, Jak, Keldon, Vassell, JRich plus draft capital to go over the cap for another max player if the opportunity arose.

We don't have $40M in cap room, only slightly more than half of that, like $22M if we renounce all FAs and options like Lonnie and Zollins.

Two of those players contracts are ending after next season, and I doubt we find any max asset before then. If we sign LaVine, we won't have any cap room for the forseeable future. If we sign Lavine, he and this year's draft pick have to elevate us to contender status. He's it, as far as cap room/free agency goes.

[KingKev]

We don't have $40M in cap room, only slightly more than half of that, like $22M if we renounce all FAs and options like Lonnie and Zollins.

Two of those players contracts are ending after next season, and I doubt we find any max asset before then. If we sign LaVine, we won't have any cap room for the forseeable future. If we sign Lavine, he and this year's draft pick have to elevate us to contender status. He's it, as far as cap room/free agency goes.

Could easily find a way to sign Lavine ouright as we have close to 40mm in cap assuming 2022-23 salary cap of 122m and Walker renounced. Lavine would start at 36.5mm or so and Collins is an easy lever to pull to free up cap.

With bird rights for all of the players I mentioned earlier we can go over the cap to retain them or sign and trade them so while we won’t have cap space we could have a ton of flex in the trade market over the next few years.

[KingKev]

We don't have $40M in cap room, only slightly more than half of that, like $22M if we renounce all FAs and options like Lonnie and Zollins.

Two of those players contracts are ending after next season, and I doubt we find any max asset before then. If we sign LaVine, we won't have any cap room for the forseeable future. If we sign Lavine, he and this year's draft pick have to elevate us to contender status. He's it, as far as cap room/free agency goes.

Could easily find a way to sign Lavine ouright as we have close to 40mm in cap assuming 2022-23 salary cap of 122m and Walker renounced. Collins is an easy lever to pull to free up cap.


With bird rights for all of those players we can go over the cap to retain them or sign and trade them so while we won’t have cap space we could have a ton of flex in the trade market.

[exstatic]

Could easily find a way to sign Lavine ouright as we have close to 40mm in cap assuming 2022-23 salary cap of 122m and Walker renounced. Lavine would start at 36.5mm or so and Collins is an easy lever to pull to free up cap.

With bird rights for all of the players I mentioned earlier we can go over the cap to retain them or sign and trade them so while we won’t have cap space we could have a ton of flex in the trade market over the next few years.

Zollins was already included in renouncing and option dropping to get to the $22M figure. You also have to include salary slots for empty roster spots, and holds for Keldon and our draft picks. We will likely have to swing some sort of S&T to get him, and send out Poeltl and JRich to a third team that may have something that Chicago wants.

Spotrac cap and tax page for next year (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2022/#:~:text=Luxury%20Tax%20Threshold%3A%20%24149%2C00 0%2C000,use%20any%20exceptions%20they%20possess.)

Sort by Projected Practical cap space, which is:

** denotes cap space with cap holds renounced if team salary was below the cap maximum. Assumes veteran club options declined and non-guaranteed players released.

[objective]

Wouldn't the first year for LaVine be something like 36.6?

That's doable pretty easy if they don't move up in the draft. They could attach a second to Langford so they wouldn't have to waive and stretch to OKC or Indiana. Draft a euro with 25 and have him stay in Europe. Waive KBD.

DJM, McD, JRich, Poeltl, Keldon, Vassell, Primo, Trey, Zollins, Jock, #9, #20 = 12 players, no need for roster charges with 12, total salary about 82.96 million. That would give them $39 million in room, more than enough to sign LaVine. Unless my math is wildly off

[DPG21920]

Zollins was already included in renouncing and option dropping to get to the $22M figure. You also have to include salary slots for empty roster spots, and holds for Keldon and our draft picks. We will likely have to swing some sort of S&T to get him, and send out Poeltl and JRich to a third team that may have something that Chicago wants.

Spotrac cap and tax page for next year (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2022/#:~:text=Luxury%20Tax%20Threshold%3A%20%24149%2C00 0%2C000,use%20any%20exceptions%20they%20possess.)

Sort by Projected Practical cap space, which is:

** denotes cap space with cap holds renounced if team salary was below the cap maximum. Assumes veteran club options declined and non-guaranteed players released.

Spurs with pretty minimal work can get the space required…If they just let all FA walk/waive all non-fully guaranteed deals, they can sign Lavine outright.

[objective]

And if they move into the top 3 of the lottery, they'll know they'll have a new big to add, and they can cut Zollins, and the difference in his guarantee and the upgraded salary of the pick is enough to cover.

[KingKev]

Could easily find a way to sign Lavine ouright as we have close to 40mm in cap assuming 2022-23 salary cap of 122m and Walker renounced. Collins is an easy lever to pull to free up cap.


With bird rights for all of those players we can go over the cap to retain them or sign and trade them so while we won’t have cap space we could have a ton of flex in the trade market.

Regarding Spurs summer 2022 cap space:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/SAS.html

we have near 40mm if we renounce Walker less 10-15mm for our 3FRPs depending on where our lottery pick falls and if we keep all 3.

[rankingtear]

It is nothing compared to what FO had to do to fit LA into the space.

[KingKev]

Zollins was already included in renouncing and option dropping to get to the $22M figure. You also have to include salary slots for empty roster spots, and holds for Keldon and our draft picks. We will likely have to swing some sort of S&T to get him, and send out Poeltl and JRich to a third team that may have something that Chicago wants.

Spotrac cap and tax page for next year (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2022/#:~:text=Luxury%20Tax%20Threshold%3A%20%24149%2C00 0%2C000,use%20any%20exceptions%20they%20possess.)

Sort by Projected Practical cap space, which is:

** denotes cap space with cap holds renounced if team salary was below the cap maximum. Assumes veteran club options declined and non-guaranteed players released.

Your number ls are off.

- Keldon is under contract and does not have a cap hold for summer 2022.
- cap holds for our FRPs assuming 9, 20, 25 amount to ~11mm. If we get a top 3 pick closer to 15mm and that assumes we actually use all 3 picks
- there are no cap holds for empty roster spots if you have 12 under contract and we will certainly have more so that is negligible
- KBD and Landale are only
partial guarantees
- Zollins is a very easy lever to pull even if you guarantee the 7mm you can salary dump him with an SRP no problem

[KingKev]

Wouldn't the first year for LaVine be something like 36.6?

That's doable pretty easy if they don't move up in the draft. They could attach a second to Langford so they wouldn't have to waive and stretch to OKC or Indiana. Draft a euro with 25 and have him stay in Europe. Waive KBD.

DJM, McD, JRich, Poeltl, Keldon, Vassell, Primo, Trey, Zollins, Jock, #9, #20 = 12 players, no need for roster charges with 12, total salary about 82.96 million. That would give them $39 million in room, more than enough to sign LaVine. Unless my math is wildly off

Looks good to me sir.

[BatManu20]

ESPN back at it again pushing bullshit lakers propaganda.


1524380122857590787

[exstatic]

Your number ls are off.

- Keldon is under contract and does not have a cap hold for summer 2022.
- cap holds for our FRPs assuming 9, 20, 25 amount to ~11mm. If we get a top 3 pick closer to 15mm and that assumes we actually use all 3 picks
- there are no cap holds for empty roster spots if you have 12 under contract and we will certainly have more so that is negligible
- KBD and Landale are only
partial guarantees
- Zollins is a very easy lever to pull even if you guarantee the 7mm you can salary dump him with an SRP no problem

They’re not my numbers, they’re Spotrac’s. There’s a link in my response to you that shows a league wide view by teams. If you click thru to the SA team page, it’s spelled out pretty clearly, player by player.

[KingKev]

ESPN back at it again pushing bullshit lakers propaganda.


1524380122857590787

haha of course NYC and LA would consider that but why would the Bulls ever do that?

[BatManu20]

Exactly. Chicago would rather let LaVine walk for nothing than take on Randle’s horrible contract.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They’re not my numbers, they’re Spotrac’s. There’s a link in my response to you that shows a league wide view by teams. If you click thru to the SA team page, it’s spelled out pretty clearly, player by player.

Indeed there is. And KingKev is right about the numbers.

[exstatic]

Indeed there is. And KingKev is right about the numbers.

What do you find incorrect about Spotrac's numbers? Any specifics?

[Chinook]

We don't have $40M in cap room, only slightly more than half of that, like $22M if we renounce all FAs and options like Lonnie and Zollins.

Two of those players contracts are ending after next season, and I doubt we find any max asset before then. If we sign LaVine, we won't have any cap room for the forseeable future. If we sign Lavine, he and this year's draft pick have to elevate us to contender status. He's it, as far as cap room/free agency goes.

Collins isn't an free agent, doesn't have an option and at best is only being counted as if he's waived and not stretched. If they release/stretch any of their partially guaranteed money and don't keep Walker, they are at about $32 Million. That includes the holds for the first-rounders, which the team can stash/trade/renounce. The Spurs can create the cap space without too much pain to make a signing happen. They can also use that fact as leverage to get Chicago to agree to a reasonable S&T using the contracts they have and preserve about $26 Million in cap space to use on acquiring another player, which is enough to take back John Collins, Grant or many of the other bigs people want. That's with the Spurs mostly trading picks and vets. If they add in some guys like Johnson, Vassell or Primo, they'll get even more flexibility.

Something like McDermott, Richardson and Johnson would even be enough, which might save on most of the value going back. Or obviously you could swap out Johnson for basically any other guaranteed player like Langford if the team was willing to include a pick or two. Or the team could waive/stretch Collins and salary-dump/stretch Langford to sign Lavine outright and then trade Richardson and McDermott (along with sweetener) for a PF. There's actually a ton of flexibility. I don't know what Sportac puts into their calculations, but even just putting their numbers into an Excel sheet and using the add function shows there's a lot of flexibility they don't see to factor in.

[Chinook]

To put it into perspective, this is possible:

Murray, Jones
Lavine, Richardson
Vassell, Johnson
Collins,
Poeltl,

With 9/20/25/38 and the RE still in the chamber. If Jones and/or a first or two this year is traded as part of the Collins deal, then the Spurs could end up keeping KBD and/or Landale. I arbitrarily chose Primo to be the one outgoing, though Johnson or Vassell could fit. It's possible all three of them could stay. I'm being relatively conservative with the napkin math here.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

What do you find incorrect about Spotrac's numbers? Any specifics?

There's nothing incorrect about their numbers, they just seem to include all cap holds, including Walker's to come up with that $22 mil number. There's obviously a ton of flexibility that isn't reflected in it - renouncing players, draft and stash, etc.

[Chinook]

I did a quick Excel conversion of the Spurs' salary picture assuming they stretch Collins and Langford:


Dejounte Murray
$16,571,120


Doug McDermott
$13,750,000


Josh Richardson
$12,196,094


Jakob Poeltl
$9,398,148


Zach Collins (Stretched)
$735,000


Romeo Langford (Stretched)
$1,878,086


Devin Vassell
$4,437,000


Joshua Primo
$4,144,320


Keldon Johnson
$3,873,025


Round 1, Pick #9
$4,995,840


Round 1, Pick #20
$2,886,240


Round 1, Pick #25
$2,353,680






Total
$77,218,553


Cap
$113,256,585


Cap Space
$36,038,032



So they can basically get there unambiguously by just paying someone to take Langford away completely or by trading out out of the first for one of their picks.

[KingKev]

What do you find incorrect about Spotrac's numbers? Any specifics?

The 22mm in cap space they forecast includes 20mm in cap holds for Walker, Weiskamp, Woodard, Stewert and Cacock.

The 82mm in active cal should be your starting point plus cap holds for the 3 FRPs

[JPB]

haha of course NYC and LA would consider that but why would the Bulls ever do that?

I guess you mean NY is stupid enough to consider it. Russell Albatros Westbrook + 2 picks from the next century or whatever, lol.

[KingKev]

Collins isn't an free agent, doesn't have an option and at best is only being counted as if he's waived and not stretched. If they release/stretch any of their partially guaranteed money and don't keep Walker, they are at about $32 Million. That includes the holds for the first-rounders, which the team can stash/trade/renounce. The Spurs can create the cap space without too much pain to make a signing happen. They can also use that fact as leverage to get Chicago to agree to a reasonable S&T using the contracts they have and preserve about $26 Million in cap space to use on acquiring another player, which is enough to take back John Collins, Grant or many of the other bigs people want. That's with the Spurs mostly trading picks and vets. If they add in some guys like Johnson, Vassell or Primo, they'll get even more flexibility.

Something like McDermott, Richardson and Johnson would even be enough, which might save on most of the value going back. Or obviously you could swap out Johnson for basically any other guaranteed player like Langford if the team was willing to include a pick or two. Or the team could waive/stretch Collins and salary-dump/stretch Langford to sign Lavine outright and then trade Richardson and McDermott (along with sweetener) for a PF. There's actually a ton of flexibility. I don't know what Sportac puts into their calculations, but even just putting their numbers into an Excel sheet and using the add function shows there's a lot of flexibility they don't see to factor in.

I like your way of thinking.

We have so much flexibility. I’d hope PATFO has some indication of Lavines interest in San Antonio come draft day because that is when you want to start positioning your cap for the offseason.

[KingKev]

I guess you mean NY is stupid enough to consider it. Russell Albatros Westbrook + 2 picks from the next century or whatever, lol.

Fournier and Randle are equally bad contracts so getting paid two future FRPs to get off those deals is a no brainer.

[dbestpro]

I want to look at this from a different angle. As Murray is the guy, what kind of player will play good off of him both offensively and defensively?

[pad300]

Actually, as an aside, assuming assorted big FA targets fall through (Lavine, Ayton), does taking Randle, from the Knicks, into our cap space, make sense; assuming they send a couple of FRP's along with him? (I am sure they want out of that contract, the question is how much will they pay to do so.) He'd be a decent fit in SA as a primary scoring option, and Poeltl beside him to cover for him on D...

[spurraider21]

7. San Antonio has Injury Management Experiencehttps://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/QeB8mvIW7Lnxp4Dru5QpmgfvJrk=/0x0:2572x1834/1200x800/filters:focal(862x640:1272x1050)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58879745/usa_today_10506973.0.jpg

[BatManu20]

Like I’ve been saying, he ain’t goin anywhere. He’s stayin’ in Chicago.


1524448494743965696

[KingKev]

Like I’ve been saying, he ain’t goin anywhere. He’s stayin’ in Chicago.


1524448494743965696

That’s probably a 200k deal.

Danny Green was on local commercials long after his departure from TO.

[BatManu20]

Yea that doesn’t confirm anything :lol. Local businesses doing what they can to get him to stay, and Zach gladly securing the bag.

[spurraider21]

Yea that doesn’t confirm anything :lol. Local businesses doing what they can to get him to stay, and Zach gladly securing the bag.
i was gonna say, how did kawhi manage to leave despite his HEB promos :lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

If that's the case, Spurs better draft a long 3 or athletic 4 who hopefully can shoot. I like(d) Murray, White, Walker, Vassell, Primo, etc...and then we go and add McD and Forbes who fell right into the same zone. Good god, enough with the guards.

I typically support going for the best talent available, but we also don't need to be putting together a Pee-Wee team.

Agreed. Lavine doesn't address our need for more size (athletic size) at all. And that's really the Spurs' biggest weakness. The teams that had the Spurs number this year were usually the teams that could overwhelm them with larger, stronger players.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

7. San Antonio has Injury Management Experiencehttps://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/QeB8mvIW7Lnxp4Dru5QpmgfvJrk=/0x0:2572x1834/1200x800/filters:focal(862x640:1272x1050)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58879745/usa_today_10506973.0.jpg

That doesn't say prima donna management experience.

[TD 21]

^ Such flawed thinking. As if having quantity = quality. None of them are in the same league as LaVine nor are any likely to be.

This team desperately needs a go-to scorer and whenever they luck into it, it's most likely going to end up being a guard/wing anyway.

[KingKev]

7. San Antonio has Injury Management Experience

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/QeB8mvIW7Lnxp4Dru5QpmgfvJrk=/0x0:2572x1834/1200x800/filters:focal(862x640:1272x1050)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58879745/usa_today_10506973.0.jpg

This is a very relevant comment. If we did end up acquiring him I’d hope we took precautions like managing back to backs. Primo and Vassel as quality backups could make that work.

[scott]

Agreed. Lavine doesn't address our need for more size (athletic size) at all. And that's really the Spurs' biggest weakness. The teams that had the Spurs number this year were usually the teams that could overwhelm them with larger, stronger players.

I disagree that size is our biggest weakness. Our bigness weakness is a lack of elite talent. We have tons of average talent, and I don’t want to pass up elite talent at G just because our average G talent is better than our poor F talent

[DPG21920]

timvp - are you planning on doing any sort of holistic write up covering trades/draft/free agency and what you would like to see and what you think might happen?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I disagree that size is our biggest weakness. Our bigness weakness is a lack of elite talent. We have tons of average talent, and I don’t want to pass up elite talent at G just because our average G talent is better than our poor F talent

That's true. We get Lavine and then our weakness moving forward can be our lack of size.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

^ Such flawed thinking. As if having quantity = quality. None of them are in the same league as LaVine nor are any likely to be.

This team desperately needs a go-to scorer and whenever they luck into it, it's most likely going to end up being a guard/wing anyway.

Do you think Lavine would be the Spurs go-to scorer? He defers to DeRozan on the Bulls roster.

[exstatic]

That's true. We get Lavine and then our weakness moving forward can be our lack of size.

...and we'll be stuck on that 5-8 treadmill, unable to afford anyone else.

[Chinook]

...and we'll be stuck on that 5-8 treadmill, unable to afford anyone else.

Why do you keep saying this? They'll have plenty of flexibility after signing Lavine, way more than if they just extended Johnson. Being over the cap is good for a team trying to reload. The NBA is a trade league, not a signing league, and getting an All-Star on the books while keeping the trade assets is great.

[exstatic]

Why do you keep saying this? They'll have plenty of flexibility after signing Lavine, way more than if they just extended Johnson. Being over the cap is good for a team trying to reload. The NBA is a trade league, not a signing league, and getting an All-Star on the books while keeping the trade assets is great.

The kind of player we need to contend can't be traded for, because teams won't trade them.


The NBA is a trade league, not a signing league, and getting an All-Star on the books while keeping the trade assets is great.

The irony of this statement in a discussion about signing the marquee FA of the summer, admittedly a rather sparse class.

[Chinook]

The kind of player we need to contend can't be traded for, because teams won't trade them.

So you know that's not how this works. Stars are traded for way more often than they're signed outright, and teams trade them all the time.


The irony of this statement in a discussion about signing the marquee FA of the summer, admittedly a rather sparse class.

Things seem "ironic" when you clip a sentence out of a paragraph. The point was that because stars are usually traded for, you need to use cap space when it's there. You can't keep it long-term. The Spurs are in a much better trading position if they are able to go over the cap and have two All-Stars and exceptions rather than having a bit of cap and only one All-Star and the room exception.

[BatManu20]

1524804151477157889

[exstatic]

Stars usually force trades. They also usually want to go to bigger, or perceived better markets than us. We weren’t even a draw during the Big Three era, only managing one signing towards the tail end of the run.

[JPB]

Fournier and Randle are equally bad contracts so getting paid two future FRPs to get off those deals is a no brainer.

Two picks from 5 and 6 years ago... No thanks.

[Chinook]

Stars usually force trades. They also usually want to go to bigger, or perceived better markets than us. We weren’t even a draw during the Big Three era, only managing one signing towards the tail end of the run.

The stars force trades, they don't actually pick their destinations. You offer the best trade package and then hope the roster and culture keeps them for a few years. If SA is so unappealing they aren't going to keep stars no matter how they acquire them. Moreover, worrying about stars not wanting to stay in SA as a reason to not sign Lavine doesn't make sense.

[KingKev]

...and we'll be stuck on that 5-8 treadmill, unable to afford anyone else.

We’d actually he well positioned as we’d have multiple players who’s bird rights we own that we could use in the trade.

Some combo of JRich, Jak, Vassell, Keldon plus future oicks could be used to bring in a 3rd player.