The Olde Town Pub of Dominick Barlow

[Obstructed_View]

The read was Samanic had the tools but none of the motivation. Barlow seems to have the tools and a drive.

There so much talent in the league now that you want players who keep improving year after year.

Barlow seemed to have gotten stronger and that's a good sign.

Wesley is problematic because the needle doesn't seem to have moved in terms of gaining more skill. He obviously is quick but he's still making mistakes.

I believe in Wesley's work ethic, and I would bet that his scoring has noticeably improved, but he hasn't had much chance to showcase it because he's trying to facilitate with no real offensive plan from the coach.

[deanoden]

Barlow or Bassey?

[Atl Spur]

Barlow or Bassey?

Both :)

[Guru of Nothing]

Give this man a huge raise.

[cutewizard]

You don't want to overreact to a few summer league games, but Barlow seems to have made huge strides. He was so lost during the regular season. He looks so much more comfortable and his mid range game has been revelatory. They need to get him under contract, but it's crazy how many really young dudes they have on this roster. Almost half the roster can't even drink legally.

Wemby 19
Sidy 19
Sochan 20
Barlow 20
Branham 20
Wesley 20
Champagnie 22
Bassey 22
Vassell 22
Keldon 23


They will grow together

[JPB]

Give this man a huge raise.

His QO is $1,761,752. As I said in another thread, spurs may have offered him Champagnie money but he declined, which would be a smart move. Now spurs may be inspired to indeed lock him in now, rather than waiting for some other team to force them to overpay (more anyway than whatever they could agree with Barlow now). He may like the spurs but Dom can certainly get more than 3/year.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Barlow turning out to be everything we’d hope Samanic to be.


funny you would say that because I literally thought this while watching Luka play with Utah in Vegas.

Barlow definitely needs to get locked up. Hopefully we can give him a deal similar to the one Julian signed because I have a feeling this young man is only gonna get better. He has improved so much and is still very young.

[CGD]

His QO is $1,761,752. As I said in another thread, spurs may have offered him Champagnie money but he declined, which would be a smart move. Now spurs may be inspired to indeed lock him in now, rather than waiting for some other team to force them to overpay (more anyway than whatever they could agree with Barlow now). He may like the spurs but Dom can certainly get more than 3/year.

I suspect teams know that spurs would match anything reasonable, which is probably contribution to him getting the offers he thinks may be out there. Obviously smart for him to look and kick the tires, but I’m betting he ends up signing the Champagne deal when it’s all said and done.

[Obstructed_View]

I suspect teams know that spurs would match anything reasonable, which is probably contribution to him getting the offers he thinks may be out there. Obviously smart for him to look and kick the tires, but I’m betting he ends up signing the Champagne deal when it’s all said and done.
A team making him an offer could throw the Spurs' roster into disarray if they plan to give him a 2 way until they have time to clear up some roster spots.

[Extra Stout]

A team making him an offer could throw the Spurs' roster into disarray if they plan to give him a 2 way until they have time to clear up some roster spots.
Disarray? At worst, it forces their hand to cut Wesley.

[Obstructed_View]

Disarray? At worst, it forces their hand to cut Wesley.
It forces their hand to cut someone they don't want to cut. There is no guarantee it's Wesley, and it would be a huge defeat for the FO.

[Chinook]

As far as I understand it, the $1.8 Million is not a contract he can sign -- it's just the hold the QO counts as against the cap. What he has in front of him should be a two-way contract. He can choose to take that, get an offer sheet from another team, negotiate a new contract with the Spurs or find a non-NBA team to play for. As far as I know, those are his options. Given that he supposedly asked to not be drafted to be able to find a two-way contract that worked for him, I'd say Barlow is a guy who's fine betting on himself. I could see him signing a one-year camp deal and take his chances getting cut rather than taking a Hinkie special. Maybe an X-10 deal could be the solution if the Spurs tell him they are legit willing to let him make the team. Or making room for him on the roster and figuring out a long-term deal that works could be more in the Spurs' best interest.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding your post… but I think you are confusing two different players.

Lamar Stevens is entering his 4th year in the NBA, who we just traded for. He isn’t on the Summer League team.

Erik Stevenson is a 6’4” rookie guard out of West Virginia who is on the Summer League team and trying to impress his way onto a G-League roster.

You are correct. Thanks. Also Erik had his best game right before I wrote that then sucked bad after that. But yes, I had them confused.

[onechance87]

As far as I understand it, the $1.8 Million is not a contract he can sign -- it's just the hold the QO counts as against the cap. What he has in front of him should be a two-way contract. He can choose to take that, get an offer sheet from another team, negotiate a new contract with the Spurs or find a non-NBA team to play for. As far as I know, those are his options. Given that he supposedly asked to not be drafted to be able to find a two-way contract that worked for him, I'd say Barlow is a guy who's fine betting on himself. I could see him signing a one-year camp deal and take his chances getting cut rather than taking a Hinkie special. Maybe an X-10 deal could be the solution if the Spurs tell him they are legit willing to let him make the team. Or making room for him on the roster and figuring out a long-term deal that works could be more in the Spurs' best interest.

were gonna lose him arent we:depressed

[Ariel]

As far as I understand it, the $1.8 Million is not a contract he can sign -- it's just the hold the QO counts as against the cap. What he has in front of him should be a two-way contract. He can choose to take that, get an offer sheet from another team, negotiate a new contract with the Spurs or find a non-NBA team to play for. As far as I know, those are his options. Given that he supposedly asked to not be drafted to be able to find a two-way contract that worked for him, I'd say Barlow is a guy who's fine betting on himself. I could see him signing a one-year camp deal and take his chances getting cut rather than taking a Hinkie special. Maybe an X-10 deal could be the solution if the Spurs tell him they are legit willing to let him make the team. Or making room for him on the roster and figuring out a long-term deal that works could be more in the Spurs' best interest.
I'll be shocked if the Spurs choose to take that risk with Barlow because of some circumstantial obstacle like roster spots occupied by journeymen passing through, he already showed more than a lot of first rounders (including our own) and it'd be silly lose him because of that. Just cut or move whomever is needed.

[cutewizard]

Sign Barlowwwwwwwwwwwww

[rankingtear]

Looks like he wants guaranteed rotation minutes and 2 years guaranteed on his contract based on a report. The broadcast mentioned he is targeting playing the backup 4 next season and the FO being skeptical of his ability to play it. Based on that it looks like someone is willing to give that to him. Best guess is his hometown NY who just traded Toppin.

[venitian navigator]

Guaranteeing rotation minutes it's never been our policy, for what I remember... Instead, considering age, work ethic and the fact we've been the ones who "discovered him" giving him the opportunity to be an nba player I think we could work on a 3/4 years deal guaranteed... Telling him if he doesn't pan out in 3/4 years its only up to him... Because he will have guaranteed money and potentially 3/4 years of opportunities to show what he really can do on the big stage... Potentially having his big contract at his age 25/26...that could be a win win for both...

[Ariel]

Looks like he wants guaranteed rotation minutes and 2 years guaranteed on his contract based on a report. The broadcast mentioned he is targeting playing the backup 4 next season and the FO being skeptical of his ability to play it. Based on that it looks like someone is willing to give that to him. Best guess is his hometown NY who just traded Toppin.
What broadcast? Can you be more specific? Is there a link?

[rankingtear]

What broadcast? Can you be more specific? Is there a link?

Summer League WAS game.

[JPB]

We shouldn't overestimate Barlow's attachement to the spurs. As Chinook mentioned, he clearly believe in himslef and SA was an opportuntiy for him to showcase his skills but I've no doubt he won't hesitate to leave for a better situation, as he should for his career.

Depends on what Dom wants, tho. If it's really guaranteed playing time at PF, he's gone. Not something spurs do. He probably wants an NBA contract and spurs can guaranteed him that at term, cutting whoever it would require. IF it's also about tthe money, not sure waiting to see what the market is for Barlow is a good idea. You know there always be a team wanting to steal a spurs developement project, not to mention injuries and stuff... I don't know how spurs exactly value him.

[Chinook]

If Barlow thinks playing "backup PF" would be playing next to Wembanyama, then it's not worth it to parse out the semantics. If instead he's hoping to play next to Bassey, then that's doubtful. It definitely feels like those two would be in competition for backup center minutes. A legit competition between two guys who've shown something is exactly what you'd want, and the Spurs should endeavor to have those competitions at other positions as well. But it's complicated, because players want guaranteed roles, and very few guys on a club that was so awful last year deserve to have that right now.

[TD 21]

Summer League WAS game.

I didn't hear that, but I did hear Jefferson say during the Pistons game, something to the effect of Buford saying that they're not sold on his mid ranger yet and that in Summer League he can thrive playing the five, but beyond that he's caught between positions defensively (lack of strength for a five, questionable lateral quicks for a stretch four).

Let's just hope they don't do their usual "do right by the player" nonsense and cut him loose.

[Obstructed_View]

Nobody gets guaranteed playing time.

[scott]

Wanting a full deal is fine - and certainly that’s what he and his agent SHOULD be asking for. But wanting guaranteed minutes seems like a surefire way to turn off the Spurs.

[ChumpDumper]

I find it hard to believe a two-way player would make anything resembling a demand for guaranteed playing time.

[spurraider21]

Nobody is going to be guaranteed a role off of summer league play :lol

[K...]

I find it hard to believe a two-way player would make anything resembling a demand for guaranteed playing time.

do you remember that barlow specifically told teams not to draft him so that he could sign the two way and not be locked into long term team option?

[Ariel]

Wanting a full deal is fine - and certainly that’s what he and his agent SHOULD be asking for. But wanting guaranteed minutes seems like a surefire way to turn off the Spurs.
Honestly, it'd be both extremely disappointing and baffling. Disappointing because we'd been talking about his maturity, work ethic, and confidence since he joined the team. And baffling, because given his trajectory, you'd think he'd trust his chances of finding playing time in the current Spurs roster, as much as anywhere in the league except perhaps Washington and Portland (I could see those 2 teams in the shadows trying to lure him away with promises).
I think Wemby won't play center all the time but he will with small ball opposing teams (i.e., without a traditional, physical center), and I think Sochan is versatile enough to be able to play with just about anyone. Couple that with the fact that the Spurs will be extra cautious with Wemby and him, Sochan, and Zach Collins are going to miss time, and I can see at least 20 mpg being available for Barlow if he's up to the job. Plus, the money going forward shouldn't be a problem, the Spurs have plenty of space and he's a better bet than most first round rookies anyway, so I'd be really disappointed if this ends up in a break up.

[Obstructed_View]

Honestly, it'd be both extremely disappointing and baffling. Disappointing because we'd been talking about his maturity, work ethic, and confidence since he joined the team. And baffling, because given his trajectory, you'd think he'd trust his chances of finding playing time in the current Spurs roster, as much as anywhere in the league except perhaps Washington and Portland (I could see those 2 teams in the shadows trying to lure him away with promises).
I think Wemby won't play center all the time but he will with small ball opposing teams (i.e., without a traditional, physical center), and I think Sochan is versatile enough to be able to play with just about anyone. Couple that with the fact that the Spurs will be extra cautious with Wemby and him, Sochan, and Zach Collins are going to miss time, and I can see at least 20 mpg being available for Barlow if he's up to the job. Plus, the money going forward shouldn't be a problem, the Spurs have plenty of space and he's a better bet than most first round rookies anyway, so I'd be really disappointed if this ends up in a break up.
Eh, I'd give him a bit of a break on this. You have basically one shot to make your money in the NBA, and if you aren't a superstar, picking your battles and making your demands when you have leverage is sensible. With all the "it's business not personal" out there it has to go both ways. If he has the team over a bit of a barrel, then he should get what he can. The Chris Dudleys of the world didn't get great contracts because they were great players but because they took advantage when they had it.

[Kurik]

Nothing wrong with trying to secure a bag, I wouldn’t react to what we hear from announcers and frankly rumor. Barlow has been impressive and I hope the Spurs can make it work. Two-Way players shouldn’t be expected to be loyal to anyone considering how quickly their status can change the moment someone else promising comes along.

[slick'81]

I doubt dirty dom is holding the spurs up

[DAF86]

uVlzxEdG2Fk?feature=share

[CGD]

Hope he stays in the fold.

[Ariel]

Give this man a 4 year contract and get it over with. Better than most 1st round picks.

[spurraider21]

Give this man a 4 year contract and get it over with. Better than most 1st round picks.
they can always do what they did with bassey. sign him to a two-way, and then just give him a real contract in-season. bassey was a two-way signing for us last year which the spurs then converted to a 4 year deal in february

and even if they dont convert him and left him on a two-way all season, he'd still be a restricted free agent

[exstatic]

they can always do what they did with bassey. sign him to a two-way, and then just give him a real contract in-season. bassey was a two-way signing for us last year which the spurs then converted to a 4 year deal in february

and even if they dont convert him and left him on a two-way all season, he'd still be a restricted free agent

If there's no consolidation trade, I can almost guarantee that happens so they can hang on to Bullock to monetize him at the deadline.

[scott]

Yep, and I don't think there is a line of teams waiting to make him an RFA offer. I don't think teams value his summer league performance the way SpursTalk.com does. The exact path Bassey took to his deal makes a lot of sense for Dom (without the part of being cut by his original team, that is).

[MannyIsGod]

Yep, and I don't think there is a line of teams waiting to make him an RFA offer. I don't think teams value his summer league performance the way SpursTalk.com does. The exact path Bassey took to his deal makes a lot of sense for Dom (without the part of being cut by his original team, that is).

I actually do think he's valued by other teams currently. He had an exceptional summer league and I've heard a lot of good things about him from various outlets. The buzz is there.

I think more likely is that he's working with the Spurs FO and knows that they'll take care of him one way or another and is fine with that. People shit on the FO for a lot of what they do to earn goodwill from players and agents but this might be a spot where that is paying off for them.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I have very little doubt a plan is in place for Barlow to stay. Every vid from his teammates and so on, the ones where they ask about their teammates, made it seem pretty clear they knew he'd be on the team next year. Barlow seems to have a very strong idea of what he wants, which is why he asked to not be drafted and signed with the Spurs. I don't see any reason why he'd change his mind.

[BatManu20]

Noice.

1684404678908411905

[DPG21920]

Legit surprised another team didn’t make an offer and press spurs. Great news.

[timtonymanu]

Great news!

[TD 21]

As I alluded to in this thread, I never bought the speculation of his holding out for a standard.

Barring injury, I don't expect him to start the season in the rotation or even spend much time around the team, but I do expect him to receive a legit chance at some point.

[Mr. Body]

Legit surprised another team didn’t make an offer and press spurs. Great news.

Maybe they did and he's sticking with his development. Any case, he may get converted once the roster clears up around deadline.

[Mr. Body]

As I alluded to in this thread, I never bought the speculation of his holding out for a standard.

Barring injury, I don't expect him to start the season in the rotation or even spend much time around the team, but I do expect him to receive a legit chance at some point.

I don't see a whole lot of bigs on this team.

[spurraider21]

Awesome

[heyheymymy]

Barlow = David West on offense

Damn, good call. Can't unsee

[heyheymymy]

Wonder if assurances of a deadline conversion were part of the agreement

[venitian navigator]

Wonderful. I presume and hope that the next step will be do something similar with Sissoko. Then we'll ll finally just have to wait till the new acquired players (Payne, Bullock, Osman, etc) will be treadable again (mid September) and then finally proceed with a trade or some cuts (frankly the only cuttable one, because of his injury and limited playing time these last years, is Birch, but his salary could be used for a trade in case the player coming to us has a big money contract
;all the others old or new players on the roster have Imho a decent market value as reliable veterans expecially for teams willing to go to play offs/play in).

[Obstructed_View]

That's the last of the two way contracts, yes? I presume the Spurs will convert him when roster space allows.

[exstatic]

Wonderful. I presume and hope that the next step will be do something similar with Sissoko. Then we'll ll finally just have to wait till the new acquired players (Payne, Bullock, Osman, etc) will be treadable again (mid September) and then finally proceed with a trade or some cuts (frankly the only cuttable one, because of his injury and limited playing time these last years, is Birch, but his salary could be used for a trade in case the player coming to us has a big money contract
;all the others old or new players on the roster have Imho a decent market value as reliable veterans expecially for teams willing to go to play offs/play in).

Someone pointed out that since all of the players were traded into our cap room, they’re tradeable immediately and in any combination. What we’re waiting for is for one of either Harden or Lillard to be traded, and for teams within the trade to require ending contracts, probably Miami.

[Mr. Body]

I always felt he was staying regardless, but the timing is more interesting. It suggests the team is not seeing consolidation trades and is staying pat for now and/or didn't want to keep Barlow hanging waiting for deals to play out.

[CGD]

Awesome! If he performs well hopefully he gets the Bassey later in year. 2-way contract money ain’t nothing to sneeze at for an undrafted kid, starting at about 500k.

[Chinook]

Legit surprised another team didn’t make an offer and press spurs. Great news.

They couldn't. Offer sheets have to be for three or four years. No one was breaking into their MLE for Barlow. Hell by the time it was clear he was actually having a good summer league, most MLEs and cap space had been long spent.

[TD 21]

I don't see a whole lot of bigs on this team.

Six. Wembanyama, Collins, Sochan, Bassey, Mamukelashvili, Barlow.

The first three are obviously guaranteed significant minutes and the next two are likely to have the inside track to backend rotation minutes at the start of the season because of their relative experience and contractual status.

[Mr. Body]

Six. Wembanyama, Collins, Sochan, Bassey, Mamukelashvili, Barlow.

The first three are obviously guaranteed significant minutes and the next two are likely to have the inside track to backend rotation minutes at the start of the season because of their relative experience and contractual status.

Yeah not a lot of experience at all huh. The only Center types on the bench are Bassey and Barlow. Saying he's not going to be tried in the rotation is premature.

[TD 21]

Yeah not a lot of experience at all huh. The only Center types on the bench are Bassey and Barlow. Saying he's not going to be tried in the rotation is premature.

That's different than what you said and that's not what I said.

[exstatic]

Yeah not a lot of experience at all huh. The only Center types on the bench are Bassey and Barlow. Saying he's not going to be tried in the rotation is premature.

You can't really have a player in your regular rotation that is 2way contract limited to 50 NBA games. Yes, they've re-instituted the limit after suspending a couple of years it for COVID.

[Mr. Body]

That's different than what you said and that's not what I said.

Yes, I said there's not a lot of bigs on this team. If you think I don't know how to count, that's one thing, but a dumb thing. Clearly I meant experienced bigs, or even non-injury prone bigs. Bigs to be counted on. There's no reason to think any big-man rotation is set at all.

This board has tremedous problems with reading comprehension.

[exstatic]

Yes, I said there's not a lot of bigs on this team. If you think I don't know how to count, that's one thing, but a dumb thing. Clearly I meant experienced bigs, or even non-injury prone bigs. Bigs to be counted on. There's no reason to think any big-man rotation is set at all.

This board has tremedous problems with reading comprehension.

..or clear writing ability?

[jhfenton]

You can't really have a player in your regular rotation that is 2way contract limited to 50 NBA games. Yes, they've re-instituted the limit after suspending a couple of years it for COVID.

You could if you plan to plan to convert them at the trade deadline after clearing a roster spot.

[jhfenton]

That's the last of the two way contracts, yes? I presume the Spurs will convert him when roster space allows.

Unless I missed a two-way signing, they have the new third two-way spot left, with Rice and Barlow on two-ways so far.

[exstatic]

You could if you plan to plan to convert them at the trade deadline after clearing a roster spot.

Last year, game 50 was on the 28th of January. The trade deadline was on February 8th. Often times, though, if you don't make the trade you want, that veteran hangs around until close to, or actually at the buyout deadline of 1 March, occupying a roster spot, and preventing the conversion. You literally couldn't play him for almost 5 weeks, and then just as if he were injured, he'd have to play his way back into game shape.

[venitian navigator]

Someone pointed out that since all of the players were traded into our cap room, they’re tradeable immediately and in any combination. What we’re waiting for is for one of either Harden or Lillard to be traded, and for teams within the trade to require ending contracts, probably Miami.

Idk that much about the rules in the matter... However it's sure that any restriction expires September 15 (that's the day Cam Payne, aka the last player traded to us, mature the two months since he's been traded to us)...

[Kurik]

That's the last of the two way contracts, yes? I presume the Spurs will convert him when roster space allows.

There should be 1 more two way spot.

[spurraider21]

yeah, spurs have 1 more two-way spot, no obvious candidates that i can think of. bediako would be pretty underwhelming

[exstatic]

There should be 1 more two way spot.

Yes. The new CBA added a 3rd two way.

[DPG21920]

They couldn't. Offer sheets have to be for three or four years. No one was breaking into their MLE for Barlow. Hell by the time it was clear he was actually having a good summer league, most MLEs and cap space had been long spent.

I mean, not to be semantics guy but there are still teams that could have made Barlow a multi year offer. There was definitely a concern on my part that could happen - either way, it didn’t and him getting a 2 way is great.

Sidy getting a main club deal and Mamu set to - definitely feels like a trade will happen and Barlow still has a chance to get converted to a main deal later which I would not be surprised if that happens.

[exstatic]

I mean, not to be semantics guy but there are still teams that could have made Barlow a multi year offer. There was definitely a concern on my part that could happen - either way, it didn’t and him getting a 2 way is great.

Sidy getting a main club deal and Mamu set to - definitely feels like a trade will happen and Barlow still has a chance to get converted to a main deal later which I would not be surprised if that happens.

Supposedly, Barlow asked teams not to draft him. He wanted to be in our dev program, and he got a LOT of floor time for a 2way last season. Not sure why he'd dump that now to go start over with another team.

[TD 21]

Yes, I said there's not a lot of bigs on this team. If you think I don't know how to count, that's one thing, but a dumb thing. Clearly I meant experienced bigs, or even non-injury prone bigs. Bigs to be counted on. There's no reason to think any big-man rotation is set at all.

This board has tremedous problems with reading comprehension.

So now it's my fault that you can't clearly convey what should be a simple point?

Again, not what I said. Tremendous problems with reading comprehension indeed.

[Obstructed_View]

Unless I missed a two-way signing, they have the new third two-way spot left, with Rice and Barlow on two-ways so far.

Thank you. I could have sworn there were two already. I was thinking the Spurs had someone else in mind for the third one before signing Dom as well. Not sure how I did that. :lol

[scott]

Last year, game 50 was on the 28th of January. The trade deadline was on February 8th. Often times, though, if you don't make the trade you want, that veteran hangs around until close to, or actually at the buyout deadline of 1 March, occupying a roster spot, and preventing the conversion. You literally couldn't play him for almost 5 weeks, and then just as if he were injured, he'd have to play his way back into game shape.

What actually counts against the 50-game limit? Is it NBA games actually played, games on the 13-man game day roster, or games "called up" and officially with the team in San Antonio (which I guess is the 15 man roster, but can really be an 18 man roster)?

[scott]

So now it's my fault that you can't clearly convey what should be a simple point?

Again, not what I said. Tremendous problems with reading comprehension indeed.

What I gather Mr. Body is trying to say is that you shouldn't assume he doesn't know how to count based solely on the fact he apparently doesn't know how to write.

[exstatic]

What actually counts against the 50-game limit? Is it NBA games actually played, games on the 13-man game day roster, or games "called up" and officially with the team in San Antonio (which I guess is the 15 man roster, but can really be an 18 man roster)?

Being on the active game roster. Since the discussion was about him being a rotation player, he'd kind of have to be on it nearly every game.

[scott]

Being on the active game roster. Since the discussion was about him being a rotation player, he'd kind of have to be on it nearly every game.

Thanks for the clarification.

The 50-game limit does provide a little bit of leeway if he's really more like a fringe rotation guy depending on matchups. He could never play a game in Austin and still easily make it to March 1 (or the entire season) under his 50 game limit if the Spurs only dress him for games where the matchups dictate. This is kind of an abuse of the two-way contract though, I'd have to imagine there is some kind of safe-guard against this?

[ismael-robert]

Thought rice was on 2way

[exstatic]

Thought rice was on 2way

He is. Barlow is. There is one more 2way available if they want to use it.

[Ariel]

This is great news. I have no doubt Barlow could have signed a regular contract somewhere, I take the fact that he's willing to sign a 2-way contract with the Spurs as an indication that he wants to continue his development with the team, and I also think he'll eventually get signed to a long term NBA contract once the logjam is cleared.

[rankingtear]

Some Samanic vibe from this guy. Never around the team and no relationship with the other players. Does FO even know where he is?

[exstatic]

Some Samanic vibe from this guy. Never around the team and no relationship with the other players. Does FO even know where he is?

Where the F are you getting that from?

I can guarantee that if the team, who knows much more about him than you do, were getting Sammich vibes, he would never have been converted to an NBA contract.

[Chinook]

I don't have any concerns about Barlow's commitment to improvement. He's shown a ton of growth since he signed with the club. He played in the summer league and will be there when camp starts. Why should he not take advantage of the long break before having to start next year's grind?

Also a lot of people confuse posting about working with actually working. It's a little cool to see the org's posts with guys in the gym, but I don't really care about that. If Barlow comes into camp out of shape, I'll feel like he wasted some time. But I don't hold it against him that he's not taking random photos, especially considering the lack of guaranteed money he's received so far and the lack of long-term commitment the team has shown him up to this point. It's easy to forget that the dude was basically just upper middle class last year, at best.

[rjv]

no love for barlow's 34 and 8 last night? granted. it's the g league but he never did this last year when with the Austin squad.

[poopbox]

Would like to give him some burn as the backup 4 tbh. His size and wingspan would instantly make us a better rebounding team even if he did nothing but stand in front of people and spread his arms

[TD 21]

Barlow can't play PF unless he's next to a stretch C (currently, Collins and Wembanyama are more theoretical than actual) and even then, a team as bereft of ballhandling/playmaking/shooting as this one can't afford to further subtract from those areas in the rotation.

That's why Bassey isn't playing much despite playing well.

Meanwhile, the only actual PF (Sochan) also can't shoot and is mostly masquerading as a PG. The team is too clunky all the way around and can't even make up for it defensively/rebounding wise.

[duncan2150]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWZX--bx1s0

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm very high on this kid. The only thing he's missing is a realiable 3-point shot. Glad he made one in this game. With how good his midrange looked in summer league, I'm sure he'll be able to extend his range

[playbonner15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWZX--bx1s0
Wanna see this kid paired with Wemby

[CGD]

I'm very high on this kid. The only thing he's missing is a realiable 3-point shot. Glad he made one in this game. With how good his midrange looked in summer league, I'm sure he'll be able to extend his range

Agree, though, his D is still suspect which is why he’s not playing. Lot of the plays in that clip look like the exact ones they should be running for VW btw.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Leads the entire G league in scoring with 26.2 PPG in 9 games.

[Chomag]

Our G league team knows how to lob pass and better then our main one lol

[spursparker9]

The Shaq of Shaq & Kobe during Summer League

[scott]

Bassey dominated the G-League.

Barlow is dominating the G-League.

Mamu goes to the G-League and puts up 34 pts and 22boards (while Blake puts up 27 on 10/14 shooting and Barlow added 26 & 7).

I think the G-League just kind of sucks, and especially if you are an NBA-caliber big you can completely dominate.

[ismael-robert]

I don't think Blake's been that successful in previous games

[exstatic]

Bassey dominated the G-League.

Barlow is dominating the G-League.

Mamu goes to the G-League and puts up 34 pts and 22boards (while Blake puts up 27 on 10/14 shooting and Barlow added 26 & 7).

I think the G-League just kind of sucks, and especially if you are an NBA-caliber big you can completely dominate.

This is the main reason why I was low on Scoot. If you’re a guard in your SECOND gleague season, with nearly zero shot blockers in the league, you would need to dominate to be considered a top prospect in my book. People were taking he was Rose or Ja, and he couldn’t even finish in the gleague.

[RC_Drunkford]

Barlow needs to get minutes as the back up PF at some point. Kid is too good for the G-League and can actually defend

[The Truth #6]

I imagine it's a weird calculation. We suck with our starters, so do we let them learn to play together more, or keep mixing and matching? If nothing else, some backups should be prioritized at various games.

[CGD]

I’m surprised he’s not getting more run with the big club yet, especially as Bassey’s role has declined.

[CGD]

What the deal with his contract? What’s stopping another team from poaching him, for example? is it that the Spurs can match any offer?

[exstatic]

What the deal with his contract? What’s stopping another team from poaching him, for example? is it that the Spurs can match any offer?

He’s on a 2way. You can’t call up another team’s 2way player. It’s an actual contract with theSanAntonio Spurs.

[scott]

Bassey assigned to the G-League for tonight's game. I'm curious if this is just a matter of getting Bassey some run, like they did with Mamu (reportedly, Mamu asked to be sent to Austin to get some playing time, and he responded with 34/22), or if Bassey is falling out of favor and it could open up some time for Barlow. I think aside from fouling and TOs, Bassey has actually been one of the bright spots this season, but Pop seems to hate playing him.

[onechance87]

Bassey assigned to the G-League for tonight's game. I'm curious if this is just a matter of getting Bassey some run, like they did with Mamu (reportedly, Mamu asked to be sent to Austin to get some playing time, and he responded with 34/22), or if Bassey is falling out of favor and it could open up some time for Barlow. I think aside from fouling and TOs, Bassey has actually been one of the bright spots this season, but Pop seems to hate playing him.

wild..,That branham is playing worst on anybody on ths team,Yet hes getting consistent mins and so
many chances.Yet guys like mamu bassey or granham or barlow are not given a chance...I dont understand it

[TD 21]

Barlow needs to get minutes as the back up PF at some point. Kid is too good for the G-League and can actually defend

Barlow is a small ball C. The question is, can he hold down traditional big man duties solo or does he need a floor spacing big, with more girth (opens up cross matches) than him, alongside?

Of course, he'd have to prove himself a rotational player first for this to come into play.


Bassey assigned to the G-League for tonight's game. I'm curious if this is just a matter of getting Bassey some run, like they did with Mamu (reportedly, Mamu asked to be sent to Austin to get some playing time, and he responded with 34/22), or if Bassey is falling out of favor and it could open up some time for Barlow. I think aside from fouling and TOs, Bassey has actually been one of the bright spots this season, but Pop seems to hate playing him.

The former. Bassey is a victim/casualty of the trickle down effect of starting two C's going kaput and to a lesser extent not having a primary ball handler who can shoot.

The only way you can get away with 3 C's in a rotation today, is if a few of them are shooters, who can also make plays off the dribble, like Towns and Reid. Even then, they're not exactly a great offensive team.

[RC_Drunkford]

Barlow is a small ball C. The question is, can he hold down traditional big man duties solo or does he need a floor spacing big, with more girth (opens up cross matches) than him, alongside?

Of course, he'd have to prove himself a rotational player first for this to come into play.



The former. Bassey is a victim/casualty of the trickle down effect of starting two C's going kaput and to a lesser extent not having a primary ball handler who can shoot.

The only way you can get away with 3 C's in a rotation today, is if a few of them are shooters, who can also make plays off the dribble, like Towns and Reid. Even then, they're not exactly a great offensive team.

Barlow already has a good jumper. If he can become a capable 3-point shooter there's no problem playing him at the 4. He could also be paired with Mamu

[TD 21]

Barlow already has a good jumper. If he can become a capable 3-point shooter there's no problem playing him at the 4. He could also be paired with Mamu

Capable isn't enough for the defense to respect it. The threshold for spacing the floor keeps increasing to the point where the only rotational players who fit the description are Vassell and McDermott.

Mamukelashvili would be a good fit theoretically, but he's also not an established rotation player and is probably unlikely to last past this season.

[scott]

Barlow already has a good jumper. If he can become a capable 3-point shooter there's no problem playing him at the 4. He could also be paired with Mamu

Interestingly enough, Bassey has demonstrated he has a bit of a jumper (shot .375 from 3 in G-league last year, albeit on only 16 shots in 10 games - he also shot .375 in his time with the Spurs last year, albeit only 3 of 8). You'll often hear Sean talking about how he wants Bassey to shoot it on the commentary. Only 1 3PA this year for Bassey though, clearly he has been told not to shoot it whereas Collins has a glowing green light the size of the sphere in Vegas.

We know Mamu has a 3-ball.

Comparatively, Barlow shot .308 from 3 in G-League last year (7 of 23) and is shooting .345 in G-League this year (10-29).

All three of these backup bigs have shown indications of being a capable shooter, I'm not sure they have the green light to do so however (except for Mamu). Or, Perhaps Bassey has a green light but has been hesitant and that is some of what is limiting him.

[playbonner15]

wild..,That branham is playing worst on anybody on ths team,Yet hes getting consistent mins and so
many chances.Yet guys like mamu bassey or granham or barlow are not given a chance...I dont understand it
nah Branham's like a hobo's Haliburton :lol

[scott]

And just like that... Bassey goes for 30 pts, 13reb, 5 ast, 4blk, 2 steals and 2/2 from 3PT in Austin today.

Barlow adds 18pts, 12reb, 1blk

[playbonner15]

And just like that... Bassey goes for 30 pts, 13reb, 5 ast, 4blk, 2 steals and 2/2 from 3PT in Austin today.

Barlow adds 18pts, 12reb, 1blk

Bassey's gonna be back on the lineup vs Houston. I think he's only in Austin to get some playing time

[mudd]

once we hit over 20 losses in a row Dom and Bassey may get a shot..

[RC_Drunkford]

It‘s classic Pop. Bassey is 100% not allowed to shoot 3s while Collins is the new Bryn Forbes.

[Russ]

wild..,That branham is playing worst on anybody on ths team,Yet hes getting consistent mins and so
many chances.Yet guys like mamu bassey or granham or barlow are not given a chance...I dont understand it

It's where you drafted them (or whether you didn't draft them).

It's a universal principle if you're management -- you promote the guys you drafted over the guys off the street because it reflects more on you if the guys you drafted fail. You give them a second, third, fourth chance.

(That said, I still believe in Branham and will till the bitter end. He greatly impacts the Spurs' rebuild if he busts.)

[spurraider21]

It‘s classic Pop. Bassey is 100% not allowed to shoot 3s while Collins is the new Bryn Forbes.
for all the issues Forbes had, his green light and shooting ability wasnt one of em

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToOlAvOTCsY

[playbonner15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToOlAvOTCsY

taht dunk at 0:38 :wow this kid gonna need to see some playing time with Wemby. Some team might offer him something the Spurs can't match

[spurraider21]

he looked a lot more competitive yesterday. was out there battling against one of the better big duos in the league and held up fine. some nice plays above the rim defensively, and hit a couple of middies on offense. he needs to string together more games like that

with collins locked into his contract, and apparently only able to play as a 5 right now, one of the biggest things for barlow is to keep working on that perimeter defense so that he can survive as a 4 alongside wemby/collins in big lineups, in addition to getting his minutes as a reserve 5.

if he's just a reserve 5, the team will probably have to make a decision between him and bassey in the offseason

[CGD]

They need to stop messing around and give this kid a contract.

[spurraider21]

They need to stop messing around and give this kid a contract.
he's a restricted free agent at the end of this season. ideally they wind up getting him on a bassey/champagnie type contract. and do you cut bassey for him? trade collins in the offseason and roll with bassey/barlow as your reserve bigs? what does collins' trade value even look like in the summer?

it all changes if we think he's viable at the 4 and can play alongside wemby/collins manning the 5

[BackHome]

I remember watching one game and thinking Barlow should get some time at the 4 to see what he can offer at that position since the season is pretty much a foregone conclusion

[spurraider21]

I remember watching one game and thinking Barlow should get some time at the 4 to see what he can offer at that position since the season is pretty much a foregone conclusion
we know he has the midrange bunny and has decent mobility. in gleague he's been experimenting with a 3 point shot, but he basically has to be wide open to even get it off, and even then not particularly accurate. whats nice is he can put the ball on the floor a little, and that'll help him survive as a 4

[Dejounte]

It really seems like they pidgeonholed him into a C tbh

[emanueldavidginobili]

1749480545312981013

[spurraider21]

1762544732218032416

[Mr. Body]

Get rid of Morris and bring him in. The team ain't doing anything and Collins is iffy at best. Give him some real court time.

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, it's crazy he can't get more minutes. He's really improving overall, and his handle is a huge improvement from last year.

Pop and Wright should just say Zollins has an injury and let him sit. I doubt that will affect his trade value or whatever.

[John B]

1762544732218032416

Damn, those handles ain’t bad. Can he sink those outside shots consistently? And he can cover perimeter too. I hope he keeps improving and see more minutes. The Spurs are pretty thin in the middle

[Mugen]

Long term, Dom is a 4 and should probably be the backup 4 heading into next season.

[onechance87]

Long term, Dom is a 4 and should probably be the backup 4 heading into next season.

he should be the backup awhile back...but wright cant do nothing right it seems.He can replace champ or collins in
playing time and get sum experience playing along with wemby.Wtf are they waiting for.

[Kevin]

If Dom can shoot the 3-ball he should be the starting 4 next season. People only like Sochan because of where he was drafted. Dom’s bag already looks deeper than Sochan and advanced stats like his defense way more than Sochan although the sample size is small.

[John B]

That would be nice if Dom can play stretch four next to Wemby, especially against teams starting two bigs. Easily Sochan can slide to SF replacing Champ, and Vassell playing the 2, IF Dom can hit those outside shots.

[scott]

he should be the backup awhile back...but wright cant do nothing right it seems.He can replace champ or collins in
playing time and get sum experience playing along with wemby.Wtf are they waiting for.

To be fair to Wright, those choices are the coaches job, not the GMs.

[Kevin]

That would be nice if Dom can play stretch four next to Wemby, especially against teams starting two bigs. Easily Sochan can slide to SF replacing Champ, and Vassell playing the 2, IF Dom can hit those outside shots.

Sochan moves to the bench. His 3 ball isn’t good enough for PF let alone SF.

[RC_Drunkford]

he's a great midrange shooter already, which is why he's efficient from the corners. He just has to extend his range to the 3-point line. I'm a lot higher on this kid than I am on Branham, Wesley and Bassey.

[Chinook]

Barlow is not a PF, and he's not better than Sochan. If Jeremy were in the d-league, he'd actually look like a point guard. I think Dom should be signed and given a real chance to beat Collins out for minutes. But chances are, he's still deep bench next year along with Cissoko and hopefully Wesley.

[spurraider21]

Barlow is not a PF, and he's not better than Sochan. If Jeremy were in the d-league, he'd actually look like a point guard. I think Dom should be signed and given a real chance to beat Collins out for minutes. But chances are, he's still deep bench next year along with Cissoko and hopefully Wesley.
i dont know that he'd be better than sochan at PF... but he's been better than collins at center this year in their respective NBA minutes

[Chinook]

i dont know that he'd be better than sochan at PF... but he's been better than collins at center this year in their respective NBA minutes

I think so too, but I don't see him getting the nod over Zach unless he plays WAY better.

[Mugen]

I'm assuming Zollins is playing now because of a combo of Dom's contract structure + the FO giving Collins a chance to play through whatever he's going through to try and recoup any value he has left heading into the offseason (I honestly dont think much of his struggles are injury related).

Down the stretch this season (last 10-15 games), I want Barlow and Sidy getting some pretty significant rotation minutes tbh.

[exstatic]

It would be hilarious if in five years, undrafted Dom is the best NBA player from OTE.

[timtonymanu]

Long term, Dom is a 4 and should probably be the backup 4 heading into next season.

Won’t happen since our front office gave that extension to that faggot Zollins. Pop will realize it before it’s too late as usual.

[spurraider21]

Wizards, Raptors, and Nets have each converted 2 way players to standard contracts. hopefully we get something nice done w/ barlow

[SpursFan86]

Barlow just got converted to a standard NBA contract. Woj tweeted.

[r0drig0lac]

good for the kid

[scott]

Great for Barlow, will be curious to see what his deal looks like relative to Bassey (4/10 with the first year being the remainder of last season and this year being guaranteed, no guarantees beyond that) and Champ's (4/12, this year guaranteed only). These are great end of roster deals.

I still think Bassey is the better backup C prospect due to his elite DREB% (would rank 7th in the league if he qualified) and BLK% (would rank 4th in the league if he qualified), but they are different players. In a very limited sample size, Barlow has flashed elite OREB skills though, so I'm excited to see what he does with some extended run. In an ideal world he could be a PF, but I'm not sure if I see it.


I'm assuming Zollins is playing now because of a combo of Dom's contract structure + the FO giving Collins a chance to play through whatever he's going through to try and recoup any value he has left heading into the offseason (I honestly dont think much of his struggles are injury related).

Down the stretch this season (last 10-15 games), I want Barlow and Sidy getting some pretty significant rotation minutes tbh.

Zach has actually played well for his standards the last few games... if he could maintain this for the rest of the year then maybe just maybe he won't be a major negative asset to move (meaning maybe we only have to attach a couple of SRPs to him instead of a FRP)

[Mr. Body]

Even if Collins is never a good player again, you don't need RI move his contract. I don't know why you guys are obsessed with this. The team is not in any cap issue whatsoever.

[spurraider21]

I kinda took a shot in the dark after seeing 3 two-way guys signed but nice to see Barlow added to the group.

curious to see if it’s closer to a baddy/champagnie structure or a Cissoko one

[jjspur]

Glad the kid got a promotion to a regular contract. Shows what real (not potential) talent and decent development can do for a player. Is he a starter .. no, but he can be a capable backup. Maybe they give him a contract similar to Bassey's. If he shows more improvement, its great for him and the team. If he doesn't, they can just release him. No harm no foul and we move on to the next prospect. :clap

[John B]

I don’t see Barlow getting minutes unless he plays PF with Zollins and Bassey ahead in the pecking order. I’ve seen him with better handles but needs consistency shooting outside to ala KBD. I’m curious how this plays out.

[Chinook]

I don’t see Barlow getting minutes unless he plays PF with Zollins and Bassey ahead in the pecking order. I’ve seen him with better handles but needs consistency shooting outside to ala KBD. I’m curious how this plays out.

I don't think Bassey is ahead of anyone in the rotation. That's both because he was injured midseason and thus isn't a lock to be healthy to start next season and because he's not very good.

Collins or no Collins, I hope the Spurs go into next year with just one of Barlow and Bassey.

[scott]

I don't think Bassey is ahead of anyone in the rotation. That's both because he was injured midseason and thus isn't a lock to be healthy to start next season and because he's not very good.

Collins or no Collins, I hope the Spurs go into next year with just one of Barlow and Bassey.

Your Bassey hate continues to cloud your vision. Elite DREB% and BLK% numbers, two things this team desperately needs. 2nd highest PER on the team, and one of only 3 players with a + PER relative to league average. Highest DBPM on the team (even ahead of Wemby, though sample size should be considered of course), and second best DRTG on the team (behind Wemby). His offensive game certainly needs some work, but his OBPM remains better than Collins (Bassey actually owns the team's best ORtg, but I'm not going to read too much into that as it relates to his individual offensive development). Highest WS/48 on the team, 4th highest VORP.

However, he has suffered back to back knee injuries and had a tibial plateau fracture (where you break your bone and injury the cartilage that covers the bottom part of your knee).

All of these knee injuries certainly add up and definitely wouldn't surprise me if the Spurs move on.

[Chinook]

Your Bassey hate continues to cloud your vision. Elite DREB% and BLK% numbers, two things this team desperately needs. 2nd highest PER on the team, and one of only 3 players with a + PER relative to league average. Highest DBPM on the team (even ahead of Wemby, though sample size should be considered of course), and second best DRTG on the team (behind Wemby). His offensive game certainly needs some work, but his OBPM remains better than Collins (Bassey actually owns the team's best ORtg, but I'm not going to read too much into that as it relates to his individual offensive development). Highest WS/48 on the team, 4th highest VORP.

However, he has suffered back to back knee injuries and had a tibial plateau fracture (where you break your bone and injury the cartilage that covers the bottom part of your knee).

All of these knee injuries certainly add up and definitely wouldn't surprise me if the Spurs move on.

It's not hate. It's looking at him and realizing he's 6-8 and can only play one position. His advanced stats look good, but his best year was in Philly before they cut him. He out-statted everyone on the team that wasn't Embiid, but Philly still chose to play other guys ahead of him and to keep Paul Reed on a long-term deal because he's not actually a winning player. He's sort like Matt Bonner but worse. His stats more demonstrate the value of his archetype (energy big, rim-runner, vertical spacer) for what the Spurs need than his actual impact.

That doesn't mean he literally sucks at playing basketball. But he can't go where the Spurs need to go. For me, it'd be far more understandable for Champ to continue to start at the three next year than it would for Bassey to be in the rotation. Champ has size and is one of the better defenders on the team. He just needs to hit his shots, and he's fine for a three-and-D fifth option, which is where you'd hope he'd be if the Spurs bring in a guy like Young, Garland or Mitchell while keeping Vassell. He's not great, but he's cheap and can hold the fort down while the team finds his replacement in the draft or from a ring-chaser. Bassey on the other hand, is already playing on a team that has equivalent options but who have better size and can space the floor, and center is a position where good guys are available for the min or room exception every year. No matter how the Spurs play their off-season, they should have a way to get a better option than Bassey.

[spurraider21]

It's not hate. It's looking at him and realizing he's 6-8 and can only play one position. His advanced stats look good, but his best year was in Philly before they cut him. He out-statted everyone on the team that wasn't Embiid, but Philly still chose to play other guys ahead of him and to keep Paul Reed on a long-term deal because he's not actually a winning player. He's sort like Matt Bonner but worse. His stats more demonstrate the value of his archetype (energy big, rim-runner, vertical spacer) for what the Spurs need than his actual impact.

That doesn't mean he literally sucks at playing basketball. But he can't go where the Spurs need to go. For me, it'd be far more understandable for Champ to continue to start at the three next year than it would for Bassey to be in the rotation. Champ has size and is one of the better defenders on the team. He just needs to hit his shots, and he's fine for a three-and-D fifth option, which is where you'd hope he'd be if the Spurs bring in a guy like Young, Garland or Mitchell while keeping Vassell. He's not great, but he's cheap and can hold the fort down while the team finds his replacement in the draft or from a ring-chaser. Bassey on the other hand, is already playing on a team that has equivalent options but who have better size and can space the floor, and center is a position where good guys are available for the min or room exception every year. No matter how the Spurs play their off-season, they should have a way to get a better option than Bassey.
Fwiw he was listed at 6’11 during this years camp

[scott]

It's not hate. It's looking at him and realizing he's 6-8 and can only play one position. His advanced stats look good, but his best year was in Philly before they cut him. He out-statted everyone on the team that wasn't Embiid, but Philly still chose to play other guys ahead of him and to keep Paul Reed on a long-term deal because he's not actually a winning player. He's sort like Matt Bonner but worse. His stats more demonstrate the value of his archetype (energy big, rim-runner, vertical spacer) for what the Spurs need than his actual impact.

That doesn't mean he literally sucks at playing basketball. But he can't go where the Spurs need to go. For me, it'd be far more understandable for Champ to continue to start at the three next year than it would for Bassey to be in the rotation. Champ has size and is one of the better defenders on the team. He just needs to hit his shots, and he's fine for a three-and-D fifth option, which is where you'd hope he'd be if the Spurs bring in a guy like Young, Garland or Mitchell while keeping Vassell. He's not great, but he's cheap and can hold the fort down while the team finds his replacement in the draft or from a ring-chaser. Bassey on the other hand, is already playing on a team that has equivalent options but who have better size and can space the floor, and center is a position where good guys are available for the min or room exception every year. No matter how the Spurs play their off-season, they should have a way to get a better option than Bassey.

The ideas that there are Charles Bassey’s available for cheap available all over the place overlooks that his DREB% and BLK% number that I once again remind everyone, are elite. Not just good. Elite. As in top-10 in the league. There aren’t better options at these dimensions, which should be of high priority to the Spurs, especially as their rotations are constructed.

Your Champ example is fascinating, as it relies on the one thing he’s not been capable of (“he just needs to hit his shots” - maybe he just isn’t that good of a shooter, after all?). You’re also giving him credit for his defensive prowess relative to his teammates who are poor defenders (world’s tallest dwarf), while discounting the objective defensive ability of another.

And I wouldn’t read too much into Doc Rivers’ development choices while in Philly, even Sixers fans would tell you that.

[scott]

On a team of net negative players, it is odd to me that one of our few consistently net positive players are considered easily replaceable.

[Mr. Body]

The ideas that there are Charles Bassey’s available for cheap available all over the place overlooks that his DREB% and BLK% number that I once again remind everyone, are elite. Not just good. Elite. As in top-10 in the league. There aren’t better options at these dimensions, which should be of high priority to the Spurs, especially as their rotations are constructed.

Your Champ example is fascinating, as it relies on the one thing he’s not been capable of (“he just needs to hit his shots” - maybe he just isn’t that good of a shooter, after all?). You’re also giving him credit for his defensive prowess relative to his teammates who are poor defenders (world’s tallest dwarf), while discounting the objective defensive ability of another.

And I wouldn’t read too much into Doc Rivers’ development choices while in Philly, even Sixers fans would tell you that.

Yeah, Phila made some cuts because of Rivers' choices and player logjam. It's too bad Bassey keeps getting hurt. If that continues, it's an issue, but this team badly needs beef. Collins is tall but slight of build and can't hang with some of the bigger guys in the league. I've really loved what we've seen from Bassey in his games last year.

Chinook has good takes, but I believe he was top advocate for cutting Blake Wesley to keep Cam Payne. He was insistent we had to cut him at the end of the summer. He's doing the same with Bassey.

[spurraider21]

Yeah, Phila made some cuts because of Rivers' choices and player logjam. It's too bad Bassey keeps getting hurt. If that continues, it's an issue, but this team badly needs beef. Collins is tall but slight of build and can't hang with some of the bigger guys in the league. I've really loved what we've seen from Bassey in his games last year.

Chinook has good takes, but I believe he was top advocate for cutting Blake Wesley to keep Cam Payne. He was insistent we had to cut him at the end of the summer. He's doing the same with Bassey.
He didn’t advocate for that. He (and i) were just saying it’s in the range out outcomes, not that it was likely or preferential

[RC_Drunkford]

Chinook also said the corpse of Pau Gasol was better than Jakob Poeltl and that Keldon Johnson is a Power Forward, what else is new?

Bassey can certainly develop into a good back up big. Players of his archetype generally have great advanced stats and can have great impact in a minor role. He does seem a little too short though, but we don't have a lot of film on Bassey due to his injuries.

[Chinook]

The ideas that there are Charles Bassey’s available for cheap available all over the place overlooks that his DREB% and BLK% number that I once again remind everyone, are elite. Not just good. Elite. As in top-10 in the league. There aren’t better options at these dimensions, which should be of high priority to the Spurs, especially as their rotations are constructed.

Your Champ example is fascinating, as it relies on the one thing he’s not been capable of (“he just needs to hit his shots” - maybe he just isn’t that good of a shooter, after all?). You’re also giving him credit for his defensive prowess relative to his teammates who are poor defenders (world’s tallest dwarf), while discounting the objective defensive ability of another.

And I wouldn’t read too much into Doc Rivers’ development choices while in Philly, even Sixers fans would tell you that.

Bassey's actual DFG differential this year was -1.1. To put that into perspective, Mamu's is -1.9. It's not bad, but it's not great for a defensive center. So completely accepting that he blocks a high percentage of shots, teams didn't have a particularly hard time scoring on him. But that same token, Champ's 2.8 rating in that stat would score highly for his position, like third in the league for wings or guards. However, it seems BBRef excludes small sample sizes, which you probably saw yourself with Bassey. Dude ranks 16th in BLK%, though you can see a lot of people ahead of and around him who are scrub bigs with only a few minutes. That's even more true for DREB%, where Bass is actually 27th.

Champ is inconsistent, and he shouldn't be starting. But he's also large for his size and has shot decently most of the year until last month. Could I see the team just not getting around to finding a better solution with so many big questions to answer? Yes. Wings who can defend and have shooting upside tend to always be in high demand, but growing them yourself is tricky. Centers who can actually play the position are swimming around the league right now. It's a devalued position, but the number of humans who fit the bill hasn't decreased. The Spurs shouldn't be in the position they are with a $17-Million albatross and two former two-ways.

I'm not a Doc lover either, but I think it also makes sense to realize teams that realize guys are right more often than wrong.

[Chinook]

Chinook also said the corpse of Pau Gasol was better than Jakob Poeltl and that Keldon Johnson is a Power Forward, what else is new?

Bassey can certainly develop into a good back up big. Players of his archetype generally have great advanced stats and can have great impact in a minor role. He does seem a little too short though, but we don't have a lot of film on Bassey due to his injuries.

You had the horrible argument that a player can't be a PF unless they also play center then hid when Keldon actually did play center later that year. Instead of bragging about it, the fact that Keldon's been worse since he moved should give you pause.

Also, 17/18 Gasol was about the same level of player as Poeltl this year:
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=gasolpa01&p1yrfrom=2018&p1yrto=2018&player_id2=poeltja01&p2yrfrom=2024&p2yrto=2024

You really have a habit of saying shit without even checking to see if it makes sense.

[Chinook]

Chinook has good takes, but I believe he was top advocate for cutting Blake Wesley to keep Cam Payne. He was insistent we had to cut him at the end of the summer. He's doing the same with Bassey.

First, I was "doing the same" with Bassey last year as well. The argument wasn't over whether the team should cut Wesley. It was whether they should be open to the possibility or if they should have him on the 15 without any competition. I admit I was wrong in that I assumed they would at least try to let guys compete for jobs, and they basically cut everyone immediately. However, I don't think that lack of exploration was a good thing for the front office. A lot of posters who call me a sniffer now don't remember, but I was very much of the mind that the team should try to win games this year. I didn't want them to make a huge trade, but I definitely didn't want them to run back the same roster without vets. That I support them getting a high pick at this point doesn't mean I was on board for this zero-accountability scrubshow we've seen so far.

[RC_Drunkford]

You had the horrible argument that a player can't be a PF unless they also play center then hid when Keldon actually did play center later that year. Instead of bragging about it, the fact that Keldon's been worse since he moved should give you pause.

Also, 17/18 Gasol was about the same level of player as Poeltl this year:
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=gasolpa01&p1yrfrom=2018&p1yrto=2018&player_id2=poeltja01&p2yrfrom=2024&p2yrto=2024

You really have a habit of saying shit without even checking to see if it makes sense.

when the fuck did Keldon Johnson play Center? :lol Keldon is a SF weather you like it or not. You still thinking he's a big man doesn't change anything.

Pau Gasol was falling off a cliff that year and everybody saw it. Pop just had to wait til he broke his foot to find out, cause it's Pop.

I don't hide, I just don't have the time to write essays like you do. I got money to get. 9 times out of 10 I don't even have time to read your long ass posts.

[Chinook]

when the fuck did Keldon Johnson play Center? :lol Keldon is a SF weather you like it or not.

Instead if trying to find the emoji, you could just look at his stats to check. It's right there on his main profile on BBRef.


Pau Gasol was falling off a cliff that year and everybody saw it. Pop just had to wait til he broke his foot to find out, cause it's Pop.

His last injury destroyed him, just like Tim. We don't disagree there. But Pau his last healthy season was a better player than Poeltl's ever been. That's not a knock on Jakob. Pau's a HoFer for a reason.


I don't hide, I just don't have the time to write essays like you do. I got money to get.

Why would you brag about not having time to see if you post things that are right or wrong? You made an incredibly careless condition for what "being a PF" meant. Then that condition got met, and you were gonzo. So even ignoring that my argument was Keldon's physical limitations meant he was better as a short PF than as a slow wing (which the numbers have born out), you can't even be bothered to remember what you said and then to look to see if it was right or not. Make your money, man. But don't come back here pretending you have receipts. I am wrong plenty (I've even been wrong about being wrong about stuff like with Collins), but not about this particular shit.

[Dejounte]

As someone who has watched nearly every Spurs game… Keldon has never purposely been put in a lineup as a center, or if he did, it was purely situational. Bbref isnt the end-all, be-all truth. If gets affected by many variables, and is driven by the underlying data, i.e., if someone in the lineup has the pf designator assigned to them— it probably chooses between that player and Keldon as the defacto center.

[RC_Drunkford]

Instead if trying to find the emoji, you could just look at his stats to check. It's right there on his main profile on BBRef.



His last injury destroyed him, just like Tim. We don't disagree there. But Pau his last healthy season was a better player than Poeltl's ever been. That's not a knock on Jakob. Pau's a HoFer for a reason.



Why would you brag about not having time to see if you post things that are right or wrong? You made an incredibly careless condition for what "being a PF" meant. Then that condition got met, and you were gonzo. So even ignoring that my argument was Keldon's physical limitations meant he was better as a short PF than as a slow wing (which the numbers have born out), you can't even be bothered to remember what you said and then to look to see if it was right or not. Make your money, man. But don't come back here pretending you have receipts. I am wrong plenty (I've even been wrong about being wrong about stuff like with Collins), but not about this particular shit.

we weren't talking about Pau the season before, we were talking about him for that particular season up until he broke his foot. Poeltl outplayed him that season to the point where Pop played Gasol and Poeltl similar minutes to fight for the back up spot until Pau got injured and Poeltl got it.

I don't know where you can look up which position the player played for each game on bballref. I don't know about the functions of the site like that. But it says he played SF for his entire career. He played SF this year. He played SF last year when he started and Sochan played PF. For 21/22 according to bballref McBuckets played PF, although you could say that Keldon played it when you watched the games. Same goes when he started next to DeRozan. That likely depends on your interpretation, but basically the Spurs just started 2 SFs cause they didn't have a real PF. That doesn't mean that's Keldon's natural position. You could say the same shit bout the Boston Celtics with Tatum and Brown or PG 13 and nephew on the Flippers.

Keldon had his best season last season where he played SF next to Sochan at PF, so the numbers don't really support your argument.

[Chinook]

we weren't talking about Pau the season before, we were talking about him for that particular season up until he broke his foot.

You mean the Pau who averaged 14/12/7 and two blockers per 36 while shooting 58 percent from three? That is what he did in the nine games before he got injured that year. Jakob averaged 12/11/3 with about two blocks per 36. It's hard to parse out advanced stats because they don't separate for certain chunks of games, but even with that, 18/19 Poeltl and 18/19 Spurs Gasol were about the same. There wasn't actually a massive statistical difference between them. The reason why it seems obvious that everyone wanted Pau is because the ST battle that year was over young players versus vets, and guys like Mills and Gasol and to a lesser extent LMA, DMDR and Gay were being shit on. It's sort of how Vassell is constantly shit on this year despite him being the second-best player on a good contract and who's shown some legit improvement in a critical area. The meme wars create false impressions.


I don't know where you can look up which position the player played for each game on bballref.

It says he was classified as a small-forward his whole career. You just have to scroll down to the play-by-play section, and it'll give things like on/off, foul type and position play percentage. BBallRef tends to go by height, which is why they assume McDermott played that position when he was more of a wing shooter than anything else. If you do go to look it up, you'll see 21/22 Johnson played 56 percent of his minutes at PF that year. While Johnson's counting stats got better post Murray, his impact stats got worse as he moved to a position where he couldn't hang defensively and against players he didn't have an agility advantage over.


That doesn't mean that's Keldon's natural position.

I don't try to get too much into "natural position" since that has no real definition. PF was the position Keldon played best at though. It's better to be short for a front court position than slow for a perimeter position. It's not ideal, which is why Keldon was never going to make it as a starter. But he did more damage driving past slower PFs than he does trying to drive through smaller SFs.

[JeffDuncan]

As someone who has watched nearly every Spurs game… Keldon has never purposely been put in a lineup as a center, or if he did, it was purely situational. Bbref isnt the end-all, be-all truth. If gets affected by many variables, and is driven by the underlying data, i.e., if someone in the lineup has the pf designator assigned to them— it probably chooses between that player and Keldon as the defacto center.


I recall a game where Keldon played center for a few minutes in garbage time. It was a couple years ago, 2021-22 I guess, Keldon’s best year for shooting 3s.

Poeltl had either fouled out or was simply through for the day. Zollins was still on medical. Eubanks, don’t recall. Could be that Eubanks was just being himself and had ended up in the doghouse. Whatever.

They ran some action where Keldon, at center, passed to Tre Jones in the corner for a corner 3 attempt. Tre missed.

The reason why I remember it:

Keldon shot .484 from the corner that year. Jones shot .217. That’s about what their percentages were at the time.

They were having the player who was red hot from 3 pass to a player who was ice cold to try the shot.

It was such perfectly typical bass ackwards Spurs stupidity. Truly iconic. That imprinted it on my memory, about them using Keldon as the center.

[scott]

Bassey's actual DFG differential this year was -1.1. To put that into perspective, Mamu's is -1.9. It's not bad, but it's not great for a defensive center. So completely accepting that he blocks a high percentage of shots, teams didn't have a particularly hard time scoring on him. But that same token, Champ's 2.8 rating in that stat would score highly for his position, like third in the league for wings or guards. However, it seems BBRef excludes small sample sizes, which you probably saw yourself with Bassey. Dude ranks 16th in BLK%, though you can see a lot of people ahead of and around him who are scrub bigs with only a few minutes. That's even more true for DREB%, where Bass is actually 27th.

Champ is inconsistent, and he shouldn't be starting. But he's also large for his size and has shot decently most of the year until last month. Could I see the team just not getting around to finding a better solution with so many big questions to answer? Yes. Wings who can defend and have shooting upside tend to always be in high demand, but growing them yourself is tricky. Centers who can actually play the position are swimming around the league right now. It's a devalued position, but the number of humans who fit the bill hasn't decreased. The Spurs shouldn't be in the position they are with a $17-Million albatross and two former two-ways.

I'm not a Doc lover either, but I think it also makes sense to realize teams that realize guys are right more often than wrong.

My guy, you're arguing that you place a higher priority on replacing our 3rd string center (who is actually productive and has been a net positive player his entire career and shows elite numbers in a couple of categories) than you do replacing our starting SF, who is hardly a rotation-level player in the NBA. Let's take a reality check for a second.

And in regard to what BBref says about positional minutes... it says that Sochan has played 0 minutes at PG this season, despite all of us having to live through it for 20 games... so maybe this isn't one of BBref's more accurate stats.
RC_Drunkford - you can find the positional estimates on the team page of BBref if you scroll down to "Play-by-Play", but as I mentioned, I would give roughly zero credibility to this, since it thinks Blake Wesley has played more SF this season than Jeremy has played PG. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2024.html

[Chinook]

My guy, you're arguing that you place a higher priority on replacing our 3rd string center (who is actually productive and has been a net positive player his entire career and shows elite numbers in a couple of categories) than you do replacing our starting SF, who is hardly a rotation-level player in the NBA. Let's take a reality check for a second.

A couple of things. First go back and read what I wrote. I wasn't talking about Bassey as a third-string center. I specifically was talking about him being in the rotation. I'm going to chalk it up to you being a person who believes being third string is technical in the rotation as a deep bench guy. Assuming that, we meant different things, and I hope this serves as clarification in that regard. I will always only be referring to first and second string when I speak about being in the rotation, at least until the Spurs go to something like an 11-man rotation.

Second, Bassey hasn't always been positive. For example, he was horrendously negative in Philly, which is the big reason why he got cut rather than Doc just being incompetent. He wasn't even positive this year in terms of on/offs, though I'm not sure if "off" numbers continue to count games after a player is injured. If that's the case, they're capturing the Spurs performing better over the past couple of months, which means we can't tell by those numbers if Bassey was positive or negative when he was actually playing.

Third, I've said many times why I think Champ might stay in that spot. I didn't say I place it as a higher priority -- I said "For me, it'd be far more understandable for Champ to continue to start at the three next year than it would for Bassey to be in the rotation." Then I explained why I thought that would be the case (mainly because starting SF wasn't a major priority compared to PG, the competition for competent rotational wings and the relative abundance of rotational centers). The comment which sparked your response was me saying that I don't want both Barlow and Bassey on the team next year. That's because I want the Spurs to make back-up center a priority if they move Collins and because if they don't move him, Zach's going to have that spot. I don't want to see the Spurs spend four roster spots on centers, especially without one of them being a real draft pick. I see the roster fringe the way a lot of you guys see the rotation -- the Spurs need to aggressively look to upgrade it. While I think they should look to sign free agents and make trades to upgrade their rotation, the sheer number of picks that they have mean they shouldn't hold 9th-15th men as sacred.

Bassey is 6-9.25 ( @spurraider21 that's what his official combine measurements say) -- that's just a quarter-inch taller than Mamu. That lack of size has been apparent on the court, where he basically chases blocks using his good athleticism but has to jump aggressively to do so, which is why he's not particularly effective defensively.


And in regard to what BBref says about positional minutes... it says that Sochan has played 0 minutes at PG this season, despite all of us having to live through it for 20 games... so maybe this isn't one of BBref's more accurate stats.
RC_Drunkford (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=53010) - you can find the positional estimates on the team page of BBref if you scroll down to "Play-by-Play", but as I mentioned, I would give roughly zero credibility to this, since it thinks Blake Wesley has played more SF this season than Jeremy has played PG. https://www.basketball-reference.com.../SAS/2024.html (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2024.html)

I actually did already say this in an earlier post, but it's good you also put it in here. As I said there, BBRef tends to go by height. That can matter for Sochan at PG. It matters less for Keldon at center, because there isn't a "real center" who would've been on the floor but who was shorter than Johnson. The team doesn't have a Chuck Hayes. Keldon played that position in two games that year. I want to say it was back to back outtings. I feel like one was against NOP where he played it to match up with Zion. The only reason why it's notable is because it was within a week or so of RCD claiming that was the standard for why Keldon couldn't possible be a PF (despite him playing the position the entire year). It was a funny relic of the past, but RCD pulled the receipt out, which is the only reason why we're even talking about it.

[Chinook]

Fwiw he was listed at 6’11 during this years camp

I tried to tag you in a reply, but Bassey was officially measured at 6-9.25 at the combine. So taller than I remember (probably thought that was his w/shoes height), but still short. Like he's basically the same height as Manu and a half-inch taller than Barlow. That they're both shorter than you'd like an low-level prospects is why I want the Spurs to take the position more seriously this summer. The center who plays non-Wemby minutes is going to be increasingly important to not giving up the momentum that Wemby gives the team. Also, it would be nice to have a center who can play next to him when the Spurs go up against bigger teams or top centers that might be better guarded by someone else so Wemby can roam.

[scott]

A couple of things. First go back and read what I wrote. I wasn't talking about Bassey as a third-string center. I specifically was talking about him being in the rotation. I'm going to chalk it up to you being a person who believes being third string is technical in the rotation as a deep bench guy. Assuming that, we meant different things, and I hope this serves as clarification in that regard. I will always only be referring to first and second string when I speak about being in the rotation, at least until the Spurs go to something like an 11-man rotation.

The original context was the concept of Barlow being behind Collins and Bassey in the pecking order, to which you replied he isn't behind Bassey because Bassey isn't good (and also that he's injured, which is very valid and concerning as I already agreed with).

I considered Bassey the 3rd string center this year, and was getting minutes. Maybe that is when Wemby was at PF and Bassey was backup C? Either way, I'd still take Bassey at backup C over Collins.


Second, Bassey hasn't always been positive. For example, he was horrendously negative in Philly, which is the big reason why he got cut rather than Doc just being incompetent. He wasn't even positive this year in terms of on/offs, though I'm not sure if "off" numbers continue to count games after a player is injured. If that's the case, they're capturing the Spurs performing better over the past couple of months, which means we can't tell by those numbers if Bassey was positive or negative when he was actually playing.

Sorry for the confusion, when I say "Net Positive Player" or "Net Negative Player" I'm talking about NetRtg. Bassey has had a positive NetRtg throughout his career, and actually has the highest NetRtg on the team this year. If you want to go by BPM (which I also think is a perfectly fine all-around measurement), Bassey is one of 3 players on the team with a positive BPM (I'm excluding Diakite).


Third, I've said many times why I think Champ might stay in that spot. I didn't say I place it as a higher priority -- I said "For me, it'd be far more understandable for Champ to continue to start at the three next year than it would for Bassey to be in the rotation." Then I explained why I thought that would be the case (mainly because starting SF wasn't a major priority compared to PG, the competition for competent rotational wings and the relative abundance of rotational centers).

Thanks for the clarification. Still an absurd position to take IMO, but I could also be wrong.


The comment which sparked your response was me saying that I don't want both Barlow and Bassey on the team next year. That's because I want the Spurs to make back-up center a priority if they move Collins and because if they don't move him, Zach's going to have that spot. I don't want to see the Spurs spend four roster spots on centers, especially without one of them being a real draft pick. I see the roster fringe the way a lot of you guys see the rotation -- the Spurs need to aggressively look to upgrade it. While I think they should look to sign free agents and make trades to upgrade their rotation, the sheer number of picks that they have mean they shouldn't hold 9th-15th men as sacred.

Bassey is 6-9.25 ( @spurraider21 that's what his official combine measurements say) -- that's just a quarter-inch taller than Mamu. That lack of size has been apparent on the court, where he basically chases blocks using his good athleticism but has to jump aggressively to do so, which is why he's not particularly effective defensively.

The comment that sparked my initial response was you saying that Bassey wasn't very good. A position you've been consistent on for going on two years, so I commend you for that, but there is plenty of evidence you're just wrong. But, they're all just opinions.


I actually did already say this in an earlier post, but it's good you also put it in here. As I said there, BBRef tends to go by height. That can matter for Sochan at PG. It matters less for Keldon at center, because there isn't a "real center" who would've been on the floor but who was shorter than Johnson. The team doesn't have a Chuck Hayes. Keldon played that position in two games that year. I want to say it was back to back outtings. I feel like one was against NOP where he played it to match up with Zion. The only reason why it's notable is because it was within a week or so of RCD claiming that was the standard for why Keldon couldn't possible be a PF (despite him playing the position the entire year). It was a funny relic of the past, but RCD pulled the receipt out, which is the only reason why we're even talking about it.

I have no opinion o the Keldon at C conversation, I just wanted to point out that BBref should not be relied upon for positional estimates (which come up in other threads as well). I've actually been waiting on the right time to share this since I noticed they have Sochan listed at 0 PG minutes.

[scott]

I tried to tag you in a reply, but Bassey was officially measured at 6-9.25 at the combine. So taller than I remember (probably thought that was his w/shoes height), but still short. Like he's basically the same height as Manu and a half-inch taller than Barlow. That they're both shorter than you'd like an low-level prospects is why I want the Spurs to take the position more seriously this summer. The center who plays non-Wemby minutes is going to be increasingly important to not giving up the momentum that Wemby gives the team. Also, it would be nice to have a center who can play next to him when the Spurs go up against bigger teams or top centers that might be better guarded by someone else so Wemby can roam.

Just curious... what does it matter? Bassey already consistently posts elite DREB% and BLK% numbers... what does it matter if he is 6'9" or 6'11"? The rebounds and blocks don't count any differently.

Wemby and Bassey put in a decent amount of time on the court together, 61 minutes, before Bassey's injury. Their most common lineup only played 16 minutes over 6 games. Not surprisingly, the Spurs saw significant improvement versus the their season average in DRTG (+4.0) but the ORTG suffered (-6.6). Also not surprisingly, big increase in OREB% (+5.4), DREB% (+6.7) and TREB (+5.8).

I was quite surprised, and recall quite a few other posters in game threads calling for Bassey to replace Collins against bigger C's who took Collins to the woodshop. Little did we know at the time that EVERY opposing C takes Collins there, not just the bigger ones.

[Chinook]

Just curious... what does it matter? Bassey already consistently posts elite DREB% and BLK% numbers... what does it matter if he is 6'9" or 6'11"? The rebounds and blocks don't count any differently.

So we talked about how his numbers aren't elite already. He didn't play enough minutes to factor into the rankings, and when you remove that filer, he drops down quite a bit (thought instead of 16th and 27th, it was 14th and 24th I think ties played a role in that). Last year, he was 22nd and 31st in the stat. His rookie season he was 4th in BLK% but 43rd in DREB%. He is productive, which is why he has a net rating that's so far off his on/off numbers. Those rating stats traditionally are box-score derived like BPM, and they mean what they mean, but typically when I hear folks talking about net positive, it usually refers to positive for the team to have them, and ORtg and DRtg are not team stats. You can look at a stat like RAPTOR from last year and see Bass wasn't a net positive player. LEBRON has Bassey as very good both last and this year, full disclosure, but I have no idea how that stat is complicated and what type of sample it needs.

Here's that stat if anyone wants to look at it: https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-database/

To me, it matters far more that Bassey isn't that effective of a rim protector despite his block numbers. Yes, he's better than Collins, but Zach's going to be in the rotation if he's on the team and if he's not the Spurs need to take the opportunity to find a legit seven-footer to play that position. They won't find another Victor, but they can absolutely find a productive big with size.


Wemby and Bassey put in a decent amount of time on the court together, 61 minutes, before Bassey's injury. Their most common lineup only played 16 minutes over 6 games. Not surprisingly, the Spurs saw significant improvement versus the their season average in DRTG (+4.0) but the ORTG suffered (-6.6). Also not surprisingly, big increase in OREB% (+5.4), DREB% (+6.7) and TREB (+5.8).

I recall. You may not remember that I was in there saying Bassey should start over Collins. I thought Collins would be better as a single big off the bench (and haven't really been proven right there) and that Bassey's style of play was a better fit for Wemby than a "shooting" big like Collins (that's where the "vertical spacing" phrase some remember me screeching out comes from). I think a center like that would be good for Wemby, which is why I think the team needs to not cheap out on the position and get a real center to fill that role. I do personally think it's a high-priority position, though I'd be okay with them drafting a guy at 33 for now if it means there's a legit competition for those roster spots.

[scott]

So we talked about how his numbers aren't elite already. He didn't play enough minutes to factor into the rankings, and when you remove that filer, he drops down quite a bit (thought instead of 16th and 27th, it was 14th and 24th I think ties played a role in that). Last year, he was 22nd and 31st in the stat. His rookie season he was 4th in BLK% but 43rd in DREB%. He is productive, which is why he has a net rating that's so far off his on/off numbers. Those rating stats traditionally are box-score derived like BPM, and they mean what they mean, but typically when I hear folks talking about net positive, it usually refers to positive for the team to have them, and ORtg and DRtg are not team stats. You can look at a stat like RAPTOR from last year and see Bass wasn't a net positive player. LEBRON has Bassey as very good both last and this year, full disclosure, but I have no idea how that stat is complicated and what type of sample it needs.

Here's that stat if anyone wants to look at it: https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-database/

To me, it matters far more that Bassey isn't that effective of a rim protector despite his block numbers. Yes, he's better than Collins, but Zach's going to be in the rotation if he's on the team and if he's not the Spurs need to take the opportunity to find a legit seven-footer to play that position. They won't find another Victor, but they can absolutely find a productive big with size.



I recall. You may not remember that I was in there saying Bassey should start over Collins. I thought Collins would be better as a single big off the bench (and haven't really been proven right there) and that Bassey's style of play was a better fit for Wemby than a "shooting" big like Collins (that's where the "vertical spacing" phrase some remember me screeching out comes from). I think a center like that would be good for Wemby, which is why I think the team needs to not cheap out on the position and get a real center to fill that role. I do personally think it's a high-priority position, though I'd be okay with them drafting a guy at 33 for now if it means there's a legit competition for those roster spots.

If we had the ability to magically re-cast our bench big situation, ideally for me I'd have Naz Reid (maybe starting) and Andre Drummond as backup C with Bassey getting some small rotation minutes and being the fill-in for Drummond who probably can't go 82 games. I view Bassey very much as a Drummond-esque player with better shotblocking ability but who needs a lot of work on the offensive end (and just in a team structured environment in general). I think Bassey actually has a little bit of range to his jumper, but I don't even need from him. I just want him to rim project and clean the glass. We've been sorely lacking the latter of late, lots of extra possessions for opponents because we can't rebound.

As for Bassey's numbers - they're elite when extrapolated against an entire season. Yes, you can argue that is not realistic, but it's not the same as just say "he's actually 14th when you remove the minutes filter" because that then includes a bunch of guys who have played like 2 games and less than 5mpg.

If we simply set the games filter to 10: Bassey moves to 10th in DREB% and 9th in BLK%. If we instead set the MPG filter to 8mpg, Bassey moves back up to 10th in DREB% and 8th in BLK%.

If can certainly be debated if this can be extrapolated over increased playing time, but to me this reinforces the signal pretty clearly. In any event, those are two pretty clear areas where we have a young, cheap prospect who isn't just good but excels.

[TD 21]

The center who plays non-Wemby minutes is going to be increasingly important to not giving up the momentum that Wemby gives the team. Also, it would be nice to have a center who can play next to him when the Spurs go up against bigger teams or top centers that might be better guarded by someone else so Wemby can roam.

By god, that's Reid's music . . .

[Chinook]

If we had the ability to magically re-cast our bench big situation, ideally for me I'd have Naz Reid (maybe starting) and Andre Drummond as backup C with Bassey getting some small rotation minutes and being the fill-in for Drummond who probably can't go 82 games. I view Bassey very much as a Drummond-esque player with better shotblocking ability but who needs a lot of work on the offensive end (and just in a team structured environment in general). I think Bassey actually has a little bit of range to his jumper, but I don't even need from him. I just want him to rim project and clean the glass. We've been sorely lacking the latter of late, lots of extra possessions for opponents because we can't rebound.

As for Bassey's numbers - they're elite when extrapolated against an entire season. Yes, you can argue that is not realistic, but it's not the same as just say "he's actually 14th when you remove the minutes filter" because that then includes a bunch of guys who have played like 2 games and less than 5mpg.

If we simply set the games filter to 10: Bassey moves to 10th in DREB% and 9th in BLK%. If we instead set the MPG filter to 8mpg, Bassey moves back up to 10th in DREB% and 8th in BLK%.

If can certainly be debated if this can be extrapolated over increased playing time, but to me this reinforces the signal pretty clearly. In any event, those are two pretty clear areas where we have a young, cheap prospect who isn't just good but excels.


By god, that's Reid's music . . .

That Reid makes less money than Collins is set to next year is certainly a sore point, but at least there wasn't an option to get him since he re-upped with Minny before free agency began.

I think Bassey never playing enough minutes to qualify for season-long stats matters. You agree on the injury part of it, but the play is there too. If a big is productive individually but the team plays better without him that matters. Of course when his starters are Embiid and Wemby, having a negative on/off makes sense. But the dude had a negative on-court rating two of those years too, so it isn't like it's just a product of the teams having great starting centers.

We can definitely agree to disagree on the importance of those stats. I definitely believe that you can't look at BLK% independently from DFG% and on/off. The Spurs did rebound slightly more and block more shots with Bassey on the court this year, but the opponents shot better with Charles on the court and had a better offensive rating (which in this case is a team stat). Last year, Bassey was actually positive in both of these measurements, so that's possibly the Victor effect or maybe the product of Bassey playing more sparingly for huge chunks of last season. The year before, he was awful for the offense, but again with Embiid being the most common player to be on when Bass were off, there's some grace to be given, though the on numbers weren't good.

Looking at all these stats and not just the ones you've placed emphasis on, I do think Bassey has good numbers. I don't think he's been elite or as impactful as you do. If he could stay healthy, he's probably serviceable depth. I probably am harder on him than I should be. But I consider players like him and Wesley to emblematic of the mentality the Spurs need to move away from. I think the team needs a real plan for how to address the center position next year and going forward. I'm not someone who'd think Sarr would be a great get, but other centers in the middle of the first could be. Barlow, Bassey, Wesley, Branham, Cissoko and Champ should have to fight for their spots. That should've been the case this year and wasn't. If that's still the case next year, that to me is a much bigger red flag than any lack of a trade or major signing.

[offset formation]

Great for Barlow, will be curious to see what his deal looks like relative to Bassey (4/10 with the first year being the remainder of last season and this year being guaranteed, no guarantees beyond that) and Champ's (4/12, this year guaranteed only). These are great end of roster deals.

I still think Bassey is the better backup C prospect due to his elite DREB% (would rank 7th in the league if he qualified) and BLK% (would rank 4th in the league if he qualified), but they are different players. In a very limited sample size, Barlow has flashed elite OREB skills though, so I'm excited to see what he does with some extended run. In an ideal world he could be a PF, but I'm not sure if I see it.



Zach has actually played well for his standards the last few games... if he could maintain this for the rest of the year then maybe just maybe he won't be a major negative asset to move (meaning maybe we only have to attach a couple of SRPs to him instead of a FRP)

Bassey needs a year of being healthy and not playing a subservient role when he's on the floor, much like Collins does when he posts up or shoots 3s without fear, like Bassey did playing in Austin as one of the primary players. That's when people will see the beast in this kid. He's a stud. Backup center is perfect for him. Although he still could still play very well off Wemby too, cleaning up the boards, putting missed shots back up, and taking the occasional mid range shot.

[The Truth #6]

I personally like Barlow more as a talent but admit that Bassey's rebounding potential is what the team desperately needs.

[RC_Drunkford]

You mean the Pau who averaged 14/12/7 and two blockers per 36 while shooting 58 percent from three? That is what he did in the nine games before he got injured that year. Jakob averaged 12/11/3 with about two blocks per 36. It's hard to parse out advanced stats because they don't separate for certain chunks of games, but even with that, 18/19 Poeltl and 18/19 Spurs Gasol were about the same. There wasn't actually a massive statistical difference between them. The reason why it seems obvious that everyone wanted Pau is because the ST battle that year was over young players versus vets, and guys like Mills and Gasol and to a lesser extent LMA, DMDR and Gay were being shit on. It's sort of how Vassell is constantly shit on this year despite him being the second-best player on a good contract and who's shown some legit improvement in a critical area. The meme wars create false impressions.


how are you gonna bring up per 36 numbers when Pau only played 12 minutes on average that season? That's a very stupid argument as it would make any bench player averaging 5 PPG look like a stud. I could say the same thing about Bassey who per 36 averages 11 PPG 13.3 RB 3 Blocks and 3.7 AST. You are picking and chosing.

The main reason why people wanted Poeltl is cause Gasol's pick and roll defense sucked ever since he got here. Although his Offensive rating was 120 and his defensive 107, for whatever reason, he was a liability on defense and everybody who watched the games knew it. Poeltl had an O Rating of 133 and D Rtg of 108. He was clearly impacting the game more than Pau, which is why he was the better option at that time.

Now if your argument was that Pau is more skilled than Poeltl, that's a different thing.

[spurraider21]

I’m not religious, but every night i light a candle and pray that people will stop defaulting to defensive rating to compare the quality of individual defenders, particularly those on different teams or different seasons

[Chinook]

how are you gonna bring up per 36 numbers when Pau only played 12 minutes on average that season? That's a very stupid argument as it would make any bench player averaging 5 PPG look like a stud. I could say the same thing about Bassey who per 36 averages 11 PPG 13.3 RB 3 Blocks and 3.7 AST. You are picking and chosing.

I used per-36 numbers because Pau came off the bench that year and averaged 18mpg during the stretch I mentioned. The issue with per-36 numbers come from projecting them out into a larger role. Poeltl averaged 15 minutes per game during the first 40 games (which covers the beginning nine games and the following 31 of Pau's injury). The samples were slightly different but comparable -- they were both in the role as Aldridge's back-up. Standardizing both to per-36 increased Jakob's stats relative to Gasol's


The main reason why people wanted Poeltl is cause Gasol's pick and roll defense sucked ever since he got here. Although his Offensive rating was 120 and his defensive 107, for whatever reason, he was a liability on defense and everybody who watched the games knew it. Poeltl had an O Rating of 133 and D Rtg of 108. He was clearly impacting the game more than Pau, which is why he was the better option at that time.

The PnR defensive stats don't actually bear out that Poeltl was better. NBA.com stats are a little opaque, but Jakob graded out as a poor defender and Pau elite that year. Of course, the Spurs used drop coverage then just as they do now, and I could imagine that making the grading harder to get right. Drop coverage makes slower bigs look bad, which is why that one guy on YouTube hates it. I want to say that Gasol played his role in that coverage well but due to the nature of drop coverage, it looked like he was being iso'd and targeted by opposing ball-handlers.

That's ignoring that Pau could space the floor and pass better than Poeltl (though Jakob became a better passer at time went on), which fit better in an offense that was dominated by three iso players. Gasol was also one of the best rim-protectors in the league.

[CGD]

We’ll probably need both for one more season, especially if Zach’s deal is use for matching purposes on a big trade.

[spurraider21]

I haven't really seen it specifically announced anywhere, but on Spotrac, they have the Barlow contract listed as just a rest-of-season deal with him set to hit restricted free agency at the end of the season.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/dominick-barlow-78565/

even with the spurs being over the cap, they still had the room exception to play around with, so the lack of long term deal is odd, unless PATFO, or more likely, barlow, doesnt want a bassie/champagnie type deal

if true, his QO over the summer will be just about 2 mil, which isnt much at all either way

[Bruno]

I haven't really seen it specifically announced anywhere, but on Spotrac, they have the Barlow contract listed as just a rest-of-season deal with him set to hit restricted free agency at the end of the season.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/dominick-barlow-78565/

even with the spurs being over the cap, they still had the room exception to play around with, so the lack of long term deal is odd, unless PATFO, or more likely, barlow, doesnt want a bassie/champagnie type deal

if true, his QO over the summer will be just about 2 mil, which isnt much at all either way

That's interesting. A possible explanation of that move could be that Spurs want to keep as much cap space as possible this summer for potential FA signings and/or trades.

As you said, it could also be something else like Barlow not wanting that kind of deal or Spurs not being high enough on him to guarantee him a few M$.

[Chinook]

What's interesting is that Barlow will have regular RFA status this year and not the more restrictive status that comes with being a two-way. That might've been part of the tacit agreement Dom's representation and the Spurs reached last year to resolve that impasse. Barlow asked not to be drafted in order to have more control over his destiny, so it's not surprising to me that he'd want to avoid a Hinkie special.

I'm happy the Spurs aren't committing guaranteed salary to Barlow yet. It could be in order to save cap space, but it could also be to save the roster spot itself. We talk a lot about the potential two firsts the team will have, but they're slated to have two other picks in the top 50, and that part of the draft has capable upperclassmen at all different positions. The Spurs should absolutely be open to bringing in multiple options at center as they continue to try to see what works next to Wemby. Everyone knows I don't think the world of Bassey, but Barlow's position isn't sacred either. The flow of picks isn't going to stop even after a major trade, so the team needs to become more ruthless when it comes to cycling through the bottom of its roster.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's interesting is that Barlow will have regular RFA status this year and not the more restrictive status that comes with being a two-way. That might've been part of the tacit agreement Dom's representation and the Spurs reached last year to resolve that impasse. Barlow asked not to be drafted in order to have more control over his destiny, so it's not surprising to me that he'd want to avoid a Hinkie special.

I'm happy the Spurs aren't committing guaranteed salary to Barlow yet. It could be in order to save cap space, but it could also be to save the roster spot itself. We talk a lot about the potential two firsts the team will have, but they're slated to have two other picks in the top 50, and that part of the draft has capable upperclassmen at all different positions. The Spurs should absolutely be open to bringing in multiple options at center as they continue to try to see what works next to Wemby. Everyone knows I don't think the world of Bassey, but Barlow's position isn't sacred either. The flow of picks isn't going to stop even after a major trade, so the team needs to become more ruthless when it comes to cycling through the bottom of its roster.

I can think of about 8 or so players on the roster whose I'd rather give up first.

[onechance87]

What's interesting is that Barlow will have regular RFA status this year and not the more restrictive status that comes with being a two-way. That might've been part of the tacit agreement Dom's representation and the Spurs reached last year to resolve that impasse. Barlow asked not to be drafted in order to have more control over his destiny, so it's not surprising to me that he'd want to avoid a Hinkie special.

I'm happy the Spurs aren't committing guaranteed salary to Barlow yet. It could be in order to save cap space, but it could also be to save the roster spot itself. We talk a lot about the potential two firsts the team will have, but they're slated to have two other picks in the top 50, and that part of the draft has capable upperclassmen at all different positions. The Spurs should absolutely be open to bringing in multiple options at center as they continue to try to see what works next to Wemby. Everyone knows I don't think the world of Bassey, but Barlow's position isn't sacred either. The flow of picks isn't going to stop even after a major trade, so the team needs to become more ruthless when it comes to cycling through the bottom of its roster.

wont be suprised if barlow didnt want to commit to us.You got pop playing champ,Collins and branham who have been playing like
trash the majority of the season,Yet barlow who hasint looked bad,Still gets pushed aside.Now not playing any more.Wtf happend

[get_mills_out]

:rollinPeople acting like the Spurs should be courting this guy or somehow concerned about losing him in FA

6’9 center with a high motor who can sorta rebound and tears apart the Gleague, stop the presses

[spurraider21]

:rollinPeople acting like the Spurs should be courting this guy or somehow concerned about losing him in FA

6’9 center with a high motor who can sorta rebound and tears apart the Gleague, stop the presses
i dont think they should have given him guaranteed money beyond this season. it was noteworthy in both bassey/champagnie got non-guaranteed multiyear deals coming off their respective 2-way contracts

[Knoxxx]

Anyone else notice Barlow looked legit tonight and seemed capable of guarding Booker OR Durant well, and holding his own inside v Nurcic? And definitely looked better than Eubanks?

[Ariel]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807243636729348518

[spurraider21]

Pretty surprising decision imo

Must simply be a matter of them really believing in Bassey. Barlow was only 20 years old all of last season. Was better than Collins for a solid amount of his time while still not fully even knowing what he was doing out there. Was also crushing gleague as a 20 year old which isn’t nothing.

If we brought on some intriguing center i could buy moving off of him, but that’s not the case. I’m all for churning the bottom of the roster but a 20 yo who held his own in big league minutes who is a mobile defensive big is probably worth keeping around. He has more promise than blake and Malaki at their respective positions

They did try him out at PF alongside Vic and it didn’t go so well, maybe that’s why? But if that’s the case I’d expect them to waive Bassey as well

[CorrectCrusader]

I hope Bassey takes all of collins minutes next season.

[scott]

Sadly I expect Bassey to get waived as well. I will shed a tear that day for my young Nigerian-San Antonian prince.

[TD 21]

Once again more concerned wit their reputation than retaining talent.

Yes, you don't want to cause issues with agents over minimal players and given his lack of overall size for a C, he's still more likely than not to remain a fringe player.

But he's a possible rotational, small ball C in the making and the backup C position (like most) is in shambles. That should take precedent over doing people favors.

[Knoxxx]

Barlow is a useful roster piece, for example he bothered the living shit out of the vaunted Durant jump shot last time v Suns. He was far better at guarding Giannis than Sochan too. Maybe the Spurs and Barlow are not parting ways but this is some strategic cap related move way above my caveman level. We do need a stronger rim protecting and rebounding PF/C so perhaps something is in the works there. I am not in the church of Bassey camp at this point.

[Kurik]

I quite like Barlow, hope he returns on a Champagnie like deal.

[Knoxxx]

I quite like Barlow, hope he returns on a Champagnie like deal.

My wife has struggled to learn the new players but once we got Wemby I got her to watch summer league with me and she loved Barlow. Chewing gum, hustling, nailing his midrange shots. She’ll be pissed if Barlow is gone and I like him too.

[John B]

I thought Barlow was coming along great. He’s a promising mobile athletic bigs.

[rankingtear]

I think they want to invest in someone who could be a playmaking hub so there is continuity with the offense.

[Obstructed_View]

Guess I'm changing my profile pic.

[duncan2150]

Once again more concerned wit their reputation than retaining talent.Yes, you don't want to cause issues with agents over minimal players and given his lack of overall size for a C, he's still more likely than not to remain a fringe player. But he's a possible rotational, small ball C in the making and the backup C position (like most) is in shambles. That should take precedent over doing people favors.I don't think it's about reputation. Barlow showed limitations imo, small, not good inside D, average on offense. The team needs a more solid player inside and you have to let some player out of the team. Tough i like barlow he was my number one pick to not stay on the roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think it came down to Mamu or Dom and Mamu has shown more. I was high on Barlow, but he's too small to be a C and not good enough of a shooter to be a PF.

[exstatic]

Pretty surprising decision imo

Must simply be a matter of them really believing in Bassey. Barlow was only 20 years old all of last season. Was better than Collins for a solid amount of his time while still not fully even knowing what he was doing out there. Was also crushing gleague as a 20 year old which isn’t nothing.

If we brought on some intriguing center i could buy moving off of him, but that’s not the case. I’m all for churning the bottom of the roster but a 20 yo who held his own in big league minutes who is a mobile defensive big is probably worth keeping around. He has more promise than blake and Malaki at their respective positions

They did try him out at PF alongside Vic and it didn’t go so well, maybe that’s why? But if that’s the case I’d expect them to waive Bassey as well

Yeah, he really needed to be able to play the four.

[exstatic]

Once again more concerned wit their reputation than retaining talent.

Yes, you don't want to cause issues with agents over minimal players and given his lack of overall size for a C, he's still more likely than not to remain a fringe player.

But he's a possible rotational, small ball C in the making and the backup C position (like most) is in shambles. That should take precedent over doing people favors.

OMG, the Spurs cut their fourth string center! PATFO sucks!

[TD 21]

OMG, the Spurs cut their fourth string center! PATFO sucks!

OMG, someone criticized the Spurs front office (the most intelligent, infallible people in the history of western civilization)! Off with their head!

[ambchang]

I liked Barlow quite a bit. He seems to have quite a bit to potential still. Good attitude, decent skill set. He’s not going to be an all star or something like that, but he will be a good decent 7th or 8th man. Some other team will benefit as I think he will be a good piece for a decent team.

[offset formation]

I think it came down to Mamu or Dom and Mamu has shown more. I was high on Barlow, but he's too small to be a C and not good enough of a shooter to be a PF.

You had them tendering an offer to Duke Jr.? I thought he'dbe the odd man out.

[AusSpur]

Says there could be interest from the Spurs to sign Barlow in free agency, I hope we do. He was improving rapidly and if he adds a consistent 3-point shot he'd be very valuable.

[Knoxxx]

Barlow may have to sign a 2 way deal to stick around. Spurs making RFA offers to Mamu and Duke leaves no regular roster spots if those 2 are retained.

And that’s assuming both Graham and Osman are gone which seems a solid bet.

Edit: I believe I included a regular contract for Ingram rather than a 2 way deal either of which seems possible.

[wildbill2u]

He's very mobile for a guy his height/size. Had some great games in GLeague or whereever he was. I always thought he could make a good SF

[exstatic]

He's very mobile for a guy his height/size. Had some great games in GLeague or whereever he was. I always thought he could make a good SF

He’s not even perimeter skilled enough to play the 4. Forget about the 3 spot.

[Knoxxx]

I agree that Mamu outplayed Barlow. The idea of Barlow on a two way is not a bad one though. For a third stringer he does not bother me at all. The problem is when you improve your 2-deep, the cuts come from the 3-deep, all else equal. Barlow can probably guard certain players better than anyone on the team though.

[RC_Drunkford]

You had them tendering an offer to Duke Jr.? I thought he'dbe the odd man out.

Barlow was on a regular NBA contract. From what I know he can‘t be signed back on a two-way

[John B]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAmb8C3ORRf/&h=AT09e72nd45yQL2hy26Iwt-KxnZB6hJSmdzcQV_2PjwHB7s5xF7hiNi9OYfwheUjQcGXAKZDT ng1sgrQEpw5itoB5Ruo6-iK8E1JXjvstHO4A-NwsLEoJUItgZTfRmVSj3J6aaUoDuJUCL0&s=1&mibextid=cr9 u03

Barlow fitting in.. just not sure if the video would work :lol

[BackHome]

The thing with Barlow he needs to get minutes with what ever team he can hook up if he wants to be in the league for longer then a minute. I always liked him as I am a sucker for the underdog and I wish him well with his NBA career.

[poopbox]

Won't hit another 3 all season tbh

I'm just glad he not sucking up a roster spot here standing around doing nothing but making lightskin faces

[baseline bum]

The thing with Barlow he needs to get minutes with what ever team he can hook up if he wants to be in the league for longer then a minute. I always liked him as I am a sucker for the underdog and I wish him well with his NBA career.

Hopefully he gets a lot of minutes as Atlanta has a 20 win season so we can draft Cooper or maybe Harper.

[ChumpDumper]

Good for him. Shooting threes can only help him.

Weird haters chiming in.