Latest Intel on Potential Dejounte Murray Trade

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-murray-trade-rumors-spurs-hawks-intel/

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Thanks for the info. Surprised the Spurs wouldn't be interested in Hunter. Is it because he's untouchable or because he's injury prone? Perhaps he wants a very lofty contract extension?

I'm not too enamored with Atlanta's picks, because they're unlikely to be very good. So even 3 or 4 of them or swaps don't make too much sense. In a Murray deal I'd want a centerpiece - a good young player - and then talk about picks. Just contract ballast + picks is meh, you'd have to hope that in 3 or 4 years Atlanta implode to have a chance at something great.

I thought once the three-way with Sacramento including pick 4 was off the table then this would be dead, but apparently not. I would have taken Ivey + a couple of picks for DJ I guess, but what seems to be offered now seems worse to me. I hope they could find a third team in order to get that trade centerpiece. I'd be more interested in Minnesota or even NY picks than Atlanta's.

Above all, I hope Spurs keep Murray and keep building, but that extension he'll be seeking is an important part of the whole situation. If they're getting so much interest they should use their leverage and get a great deal out of it.

[KingKev]

I’m surprised teams are offering that much. 4-5 draft pics can be crippling for a franchise to cough up even for a team with decent draft capital.

[slick'81]

Definitely seems nothing is eminent yet

[JuneJive]

If they manage to get 3 picks and 2 swaps.

That would be a massive haul.

[rankingtear]

The Jrue package if you take out the Bledsoe dump part of the equation is 2 unprotected and 2 pick swaps. That is comparable maybe more.

[duncan2150]

thanks for the intel

I'm not for rushing things, i think Dejounte value will be the same during next season.

Imo without Okongwu or Hunter there will be no offer i will accept from ATL.
We'll see i'm torn on the idea of trading DJ , because if you do that even for a good package, if you're not in next draft top 3 it did not worth it imo.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Jrue package if you take out the Bledsoe dump part of the equation is 2 unprotected and 2 pick swaps. That is comparable maybe more.

It was a 2020 first round pick (#24 RJ Hampton, traded to Denver), then picks in 2025 (protected 1-4), unprotected in 2027 and pickswaps in 2024 and 2026.

Part of it was playing the chance that Giannis wouldn't re-sign and these picks would be great. Didn't work well for NO, so they could easily end up with just 3 picks in the 20s. Not a great haul tbh.

[Robz4000]

No interest in the Hawks' draft picks, even if they are minimally protected. Interesting that there are other teams willing to throw the kitchen sink in a deal for Murray though.

[Spursfanfromafar]

If they are considering trading Murray for a load of picks.. the Spurs should seriously be in the free agency market for Tyus Jones, methinks. Otherwise it makes no sense to let a seasoned point guard go for just picks without a capable replacement. For all the talent that Primo, Branham have, not to mention Jones' younger brother.. they aren't capable of running a team on their own. Tyus is a good playmaker/orchestrator, does not turn the ball over at all, can shoot the three (at least recently) and while he is a slight minus on defense, he holds his own there. And he won't cost much in the FA market either.

[Big Empty]

The Spurs dont want to pay Murray 40 million a year when his contract is up. He’s gonna walk in two years, maybe we’ll get a late first round draft pick for him with a sign & trade, he’s only going to sign with a team that can compete for a championship when he leaves. If he’s stays we’re a first round exit team and we continue drafting in the mid teens for a few more years. If he stays, i think ill root for the Spurs to sign Ayton since he would be helpfull against teams like Denver & Utah. If Keldon/Vassell/Primo have improved their 3 stroke even more the Spurs could easily make some noise in the playoffs. Either way, its good to have options. Ayton is 23 and is a tad better than Purtle with room to get better.

[Uriel]

While 4 first round picks sound appealing on paper, 4 first round picks from the Hawks, who are likely to be a playoff team in the years to come, isn’t really that valuable. What does it matter if the picks are unprotected if they’re going to be in the 20’s anyway.

[Uriel]

These talks remind me of when the Spurs almost traded Tony Parker to Toronto for the #5 pick (which would have been Ed Davis). That trade would have been a big mistake in hindsight, and we’re all glad of course they didn’t end up doing it.

[CGD]

The more I think about it, the asking price seems about right.

[PhantomDashCam]

Shall we speculate on the other EC team?

Knicks? Wizards?

One thing we can feel pretty comfortable in saying, Spurs want no part of John Collins.

When a team has re-signed Bryn Forbes twice and offered a contract to a namesake with an explosive foot, that tells you everything you need to know…Actually, not sure who that’s an indictment of tbh :lol

[Robz4000]

Shall we speculate on the other EC team?

Knicks? Wizards?

One thing we can feel pretty comfortable in saying, Spurs want no part of John Collins.

When a team has re-signed Bryn Forbes twice and offered a contract to a namesake with an explosive foot, that tells you everything you need to know…Actually, not sure who that’s an indictment of tbh :lol

One of them is definitely the Wizards tbh. Doubt the Spurs and Knicks would do business with each other these days. Other EC teams are prolly Charlotte and Toronto.

[KingKev]

Unless they materially upgrade the rest of the roster in free agency (which would be hard) replacing Murray with Primo in the starting lineup is a surefire bottom 3 team. At that point cash in on Jak and let Zollins start and you are firmly in the VW sweepstakes.

[Degoat]

Interesting. I wonder who this is referring to…

“One Eastern Conference team, he says, is offering three first round draft picks and a desirable young player in a proposed swap.”

[Robz4000]

Interesting. I wonder who this is referring to…

“One Eastern Conference team, he says, is offering three first round draft picks and a desirable young player in a proposed swap.”

My bet is the Wizards with Rui Hachimura.

[Maddog]

Interesting. I wonder who this is referring to…

“One Eastern Conference team, he says, is offering three first round draft picks and a desirable young player in a proposed swap.”

It's got to be a team thatis on the edge of being a contender
Either that or the Knicks, or the Hornets
Never mind who knows- there are a lot of teams that are delusional about their future

[cutewizard]

My bet is the Wizards with Rui Hachimura.

------------------------------


do it Spurs FO

[Ice009]

Thanks for the info. Surprised the Spurs wouldn't be interested in Hunter. Is it because he's untouchable or because he's injury prone? Perhaps he wants a very lofty contract extension?

I'm not too enamored with Atlanta's picks, because they're unlikely to be very good. So even 3 or 4 of them or swaps don't make too much sense. In a Murray deal I'd want a centerpiece - a good young player - and then talk about picks. Just contract ballast + picks is meh, you'd have to hope that in 3 or 4 years Atlanta implode to have a chance at something great.

I thought once the three-way with Sacramento including pick 4 was off the table then this would be dead, but apparently not. I would have taken Ivey + a couple of picks for DJ I guess, but what seems to be offered now seems worse to me. I hope they could find a third team in order to get that trade centerpiece. I'd be more interested in Minnesota or even NY picks than Atlanta's.

Above all, I hope Spurs keep Murray and keep building, but that extension he'll be seeking is an important part of the whole situation. If they're getting so much interest they should use their leverage and get a great deal out of it.

I asked in another thread, but did the Spurs try and get the 4th pick to get Jaden Ivey? Were they interested in Ivey?

[CGD]

Interesting. I wonder who this is referring to…

“One Eastern Conference team, he says, is offering three first round draft picks and a desirable young player in a proposed swap.”

I say Wizards. They have Davis, Deni who’ve we’ve liked in the past, and Pop favorite Kuzma.

[CGD]

My bet is the Wizards with Rui Hachimura.

Shop has sailed on Rui

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I asked in another thread, but did the Spurs try and get the 4th pick to get Jaden Ivey? Were they interested in Ivey?

I'm not sure, apparently they were interested in Keegan Murray but I don't buy it, certainly not over Ivey and especially if they're trading DJ for the pick.

[RC_Drunkford]

thanks for the intel timvp we needed that. There's definitely a possibility of this happening, although I hope it won't. 3 firsts and a young player is about right as the asking price for DJ, but those picks have to be high. I think teams are very aggressive in their pursuit of Murray, so it might go down.

[Dejounte]

So if this is all true,

a roster shake up that involves DJ is worth more trouble than it’s worth thus the unrealistic trade expectations for other teams to meet

It’s like having a girlfriend and saying you’ll only let her go for a billion dollars. If someone offers you a billion dollars, you take it. You don’t have on a ring on it, there’s no commitment there— so no love lost and your girl would probably understand.

but no one is offering you a billion dollars. You can live on with your life and laugh about it with your girlfriend and maybe marry her one day.

[tbdog]

Interesting Intel. We would suck without Murray though. Is pop really going out as one of the worst teams?

[Dex]

I know this has been mentioned in other threads, but if the Spurs are seriously considering moving DJM now (and that seems to be the case), it basically means one of two things:

1) They have high expectations for any of Primo, Branham, or Wesley

2) They are committing to a full rebuild / tank

Maybe both can be true, but unless Primo makes a huge leap next year (or the Spurs end up bringing in another guard)...removing Murray from this current squad pretty much makes the Spurs a 25-win team next year.

[Excessive Egotist]

I know this has been mentioned in other threads, but if the Spurs are seriously considering moving DJM now (and that seems to be the case), it basically means one of two things:

1) They have high expectations for any of Primo, Branham, or Wesley

2) They are committing to a full rebuild / tank

Maybe both can be true, but unless Primo makes a huge leap next year (or the Spurs end up bringing in another guard)...removing Murray from this current squad pretty much makes the Spurs a 25-win team next year.

Yes, and 3) they've put a "once in a generation" grade on French Vic.

[mo7888]

I know this has been mentioned in other threads, but if the Spurs are seriously considering moving DJM now (and that seems to be the case), it basically means one of two things:

1) They have high expectations for any of Primo, Branham, or Wesley

2) They are committing to a full rebuild / tank

Maybe both can be true, but unless Primo makes a huge leap next year (or the Spurs end up bringing in another guard)...removing Murray from this current squad pretty much makes the Spurs a 25-win team next year.

I think both are true...

[tbdog]

If the incentive is not to pay Murray the max. Then the nba has an issue. Fringe allstars are not max players.

[stephen jackson]

This team has been horrendously managed since Timmy retired . Fuck we suck

[Chinook]

It feels like there's a deal to be had there.

Murray and Langford for:

Gallinari, Okongwu ATL 2023 unprotected first, CHA 2023 first, 2024 swap and 2025 Top-4 protected first, 2026 swap and OKC's 2024 and 2025 unprotected seconds.

[Dex]

If the incentive is not to pay Murray the max. Then the nba has an issue. Fringe allstars are not max players.

Try telling that to the fringe All-Stars. Everybody out there trying to grab their bag whether they deserve it or not...and the Spurs are especially susceptible being in a small-market.

I know DJ has been all about team and Spurs culture and what not...but IF he is still a Spur when extension time comes, we'll see if he walks the walk. Tim, Tony, Manu...all those guys took lesser deals to keep the team together and stay competitive.

Will Murray follow suit, or milk that cash cow for all it is worth?

[Ice009]

Interesting Intel. We would suck without Murray though. Is pop really going out as one of the worst teams?

Actually, that sounds like it could be what he wants. Pop started out bad and we got the number 1 pick to get Tim Duncan. Maybe he wants to end the same way and go out with getting the number 1 pick to get Victor Wembanyama.

[Dex]

Actually, that sounds like it could be what he wants. Pop started out bad and we got the number 1 pick to get Tim Duncan. Maybe he wants to end the same way and go out with getting the number 1 pick to get Victor Wembanyama.

At the very least, I think Pop wants to leave his successor in a good position. The best way to do that over the next 1-2 years is to secure a high draft pick, because I don't see us pulling in a marquee free agent.

[CGD]

It feels like there's a deal to be had there.

Murray and Langford for:

Gallinari, Okongwu ATL 2023 unprotected first, CHA 2023 first, 2024 swap and 2025 Top-4 protected first, 2026 swap and OKC's 2024 and 2025 unprotected seconds.

I do that. ATL is time pressured here too right?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It feels like there's a deal to be had there.

Murray and Langford for:

Gallinari, Okongwu ATL 2023 unprotected first, CHA 2023 first, 2024 swap and 2025 Top-4 protected first, 2026 swap and OKC's 2024 and 2025 unprotected seconds.

If there's a trade it'd probably be something like this, but I don't see any of the picks coming to the Spurs in this scenario being good, i.e. anywhere in the lottery. We'd have to hope Atlanta implode.

Perhaps it's because I don't rate Okongwu as a centerpiece but I feel there could be better deals elsewhere.

[SAGirl]

I kind of don’t expect a deal with Atlanta to go down. Usually when there’s a leak it’s bc the deal has fallen apart but someone wants to get something out of the situation. It’s more the other teams that have interest but have kept silent which are a threat. SA is asking for a lot, so we’ll see what happens.

[Excessive Egotist]

It feels like there's a deal to be had there.

Murray and Langford for:

Gallinari, Okongwu ATL 2023 unprotected first, CHA 2023 first, 2024 swap and 2025 Top-4 protected first, 2026 swap and OKC's 2024 and 2025 unprotected seconds.


I've thought the same, except with Jalen Johnson rather than Okongwu. This is only because I didn't think we'd be able to land Okongwu. I saw Johnson as a throw-in. If Okongwu is included, this is an excellent trade for Spurs.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'd like to see us re-route Gallo and McDermott to Charlotte in exchange for absorbing Hayward's contract. We'd receive a FRP and lifted pick protections on CHA '23 FRP for our trouble.

I don't mind Hayward's contract insofar as I think we will flip it for an additional FRP some time between this summer and deadline '24.

[mo7888]

It feels like there's a deal to be had there.

Murray and Langford for:

Gallinari, Okongwu ATL 2023 unprotected first, CHA 2023 first, 2024 swap and 2025 Top-4 protected first, 2026 swap and OKC's 2024 and 2025 unprotected seconds.

I agree...

[rascal]

Try telling that to the fringe All-Stars. Everybody out there trying to grab their bag whether they deserve it or not...and the Spurs are especially susceptible being in a small-market.

I know DJ has been all about team and Spurs culture and what not...but IF he is still a Spur when extension time comes, we'll see if he walks the walk. Tim, Tony, Manu...all those guys took lesser deals to keep the team together and stay competitive.

Will Murray follow suit, or milk that cash cow for all it is worth?

Murray already has his sights set in Atlanta.

[rascal]

If there's a trade it'd probably be something like this, but I don't see any of the picks coming to the Spurs in this scenario being good, i.e. anywhere in the lottery. We'd have to hope Atlanta implode.

Perhaps it's because I don't rate Okongwu as a centerpiece but I feel there could be better deals elsewhere.

You think Charlotte will be good? Charlotte's and San Antonio's picks will be lottery picks and they'll have three firsts next year like they had this year so a solid foundation to build on with all those lottery picks combined with this year's picks instead of throwing a boatload of money to Murray in a couple of years. Murray's timeline doesn't match up with the youth movement, so move him.

Spurs are not winning anything in the next couple of years anyways.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You think Charlotte will be good? Charlotte's and San Antonio's picks will be lottery picks and they'll have three firsts next year like they had this year so a solid foundation to build on with all those lottery picks combined with this year's picks instead of throwing a boatload of money to Murray in a couple of years. Murray's timeline doesn't match up with the youth movement, so move him.

Spurs are not winning anything in the next couple of years anyways.

The Charlotte pick that Atlanta own is top 17 protected in 2023, lottery protected in 24 and 25 and then turns into two seconds.

[mo7888]

The Charlotte pick that Atlanta own is top 17 protected in 2023, lottery protected in 24 and 25 and then turns into two seconds.

I saw somewhere where someone suggested taking on Haywards contract for them lifting those protections....I like that idea..

[BatManu20]

Shop has sailed on Rui

Let’s hope so. He’s not good.

[Degoat]

Anybody think maybe Orlando might be interested in pairing DJ with Paulo? Maybe that young player was Jalen Suggs, probably not tho. Think spurs and DJ will be on okay terms if a trade doesn’t happen?

[Kevin]

The only teams that are trading away picks for Murray are win now contenders so yeah the picks probably wont be awesome. People need to accept that.

[baseline bum]

My bet is the Wizards with Rui Hachimura.

Doesn't really fit with desirable tbh.

[BillMc]

While I think Murray is good, I think the Spurs would do well trading him when his value is at its highest after the All Star nod. I still sort of believe he's got a Westrbrook quality to him, meaning great stats but not really sure he's good at running an offense. I think we sell high. If Primo is really coming on as is whispered, well, it could work out for us in a year or two down the line. And if we're armed with some unprotected 1's, that may make it worth it.

[baseline bum]

Try telling that to the fringe All-Stars. Everybody out there trying to grab their bag whether they deserve it or not...and the Spurs are especially susceptible being in a small-market.

I know DJ has been all about team and Spurs culture and what not...but IF he is still a Spur when extension time comes, we'll see if he walks the walk. Tim, Tony, Manu...all those guys took lesser deals to keep the team together and stay competitive.

Will Murray follow suit, or milk that cash cow for all it is worth?

Murray will ask for max, which he should, because that's his market value.

[John B]

I say Wizards. They have Davis, Deni who’ve we’ve liked in the past, and Pop favorite Kuzma.

I’m down with that. I think Pop would like Davis as backup for Primo and possible starting PG (I know he’s a SG but can really play PG) and 3 first round draft picks. Then get Ayton.

[baseline bum]

You think Charlotte will be good? Charlotte's and San Antonio's picks will be lottery picks and they'll have three firsts next year like they had this year so a solid foundation to build on with all those lottery picks combined with this year's picks instead of throwing a boatload of money to Murray in a couple of years. Murray's timeline doesn't match up with the youth movement, so move him.

Spurs are not winning anything in the next couple of years anyways.

Don't think I'd write the Hornets off into the lottery next year. They made the play-in this season and Ball is only going to get better. I'd rather do a deal with Washington who you know will be trash because Beal's nerve damage ensures he'll be a high usage, low efficiency player again. Get an unprotected 2023 pick, an unprotected 2025 pick, an unprotected 2027 pick, a couple of pick swaps, and take some trash player like KCP back for salary matching.

[mo7888]

Don't think I'd write the Hornets off into the lottery next year. They made the play-in this season and Ball is only going to get better. I'd rather do a deal with Washington who you know will be trash because Beal's nerve damage ensures he'll be a high usage, low efficiency player again. Get an unprotected 2023 pick, an unprotected 2025 pick, an unprotected 2027 pick, a couple of pick swaps, and take some trash player like KCP back for salary matching.

Washington doesn't own there pick next year I don't believe..

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Don't think I'd write the Hornets off into the lottery next year. They made the play-in this season and Ball is only going to get better. I'd rather do a deal with Washington who you know will be trash because Beal's nerve damage ensures he'll be a high usage, low efficiency player again. Get an unprotected 2023 pick, an unprotected 2025 pick, an unprotected 2027 pick, a couple of pick swaps, and take some trash player like KCP back for salary matching.

Can't because Washington owe their 2023 pick to NY - lottery protected and has protections until 2026.

[rascal]

I’m down with that. I think Pop would like Davis as backup for Primo and possible starting PG (I know he’s a SG but can really play PG) and 3 first round draft picks. Then get Ayton.

They will ship Murray to where he wants to go. They won't send him to Washington.

[Mr. Body]

I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.

[ginobilized]

All this tells me that the Spurs are on the verge of pushing the button for a full rebuild.

Many on this board have been clamoring for this. It makes sense on so many levels.

Pop jumps on the grenade of coaching losses as retribution for his many wins and, in doing so, sets up the next coach with a puncher's chance of winning in a couple of years.
This means that Pop will get to really coach this season, which he loves. Lots of teaching with these young guys. Also, there may be the idea that our real division rivals will be OKC and Houston in a few years and we need to reload with younger players to be competitive in 2025 and beyond.

Whatever the case, I'd miss Dejounte, but, fully understand and be pretty happy with multiple firsts and a good young player.

[RC_Drunkford]

Try telling that to the fringe All-Stars. Everybody out there trying to grab their bag whether they deserve it or not...and the Spurs are especially susceptible being in a small-market.

I know DJ has been all about team and Spurs culture and what not...but IF he is still a Spur when extension time comes, we'll see if he walks the walk. Tim, Tony, Manu...all those guys took lesser deals to keep the team together and stay competitive.

Will Murray follow suit, or milk that cash cow for all it is worth?

the question is would the Spurs get him some help by then? Because I see nothing in them being interested to improve the team by adding pieces

[rascal]

I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.

It sends a message that the Spurs are going in on a full rebuild with the youth movement.

Players know it's a business and trades are part of what can happen.

[baseline bum]

The Charlotte pick that Atlanta own is top 17 protected in 2023, lottery protected in 24 and 25 and then turns into two seconds.

Then the Atlanta deal is completely worthless.

[ginobilized]

And one more thing, it seems like the Spurs/Wright are being proactive and getting ahead of the curve on this. This is new for the Spurs. It makes sense.

Jakob is likely going next, if this is true.

[Mugen]

All this tells me that the Spurs are on the verge of pushing the button for a full rebuild.

Many on this board have been clamoring for this. It makes sense on so many levels.

Pop jumps on the grenade of coaching losses as retribution for his many wins and, in doing so, sets up the next coach with a puncher's chance of winning in a couple of years.
This means that Pop will get to really coach this season, which he loves. Lots of teaching with these young guys. Also, there may be the idea that our real division rivals will be OKC and Houston in a few years and we need to reload with younger players to be competitive in 2025 and beyond.

Whatever the case, I'd miss Dejounte, but, fully understand and be pretty happy with multiple firsts and a good young player.

He's had the ability to really "coach" the last few years so tired of hearing that BS. He needs to hit the road if/when the Spurs trade away Murray. An 80yo anchor on this organization needs to be lifted.

[mo7888]

I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.

So S&T him in 2 years for much less value and spend the next 2 years in the play-in? That doesn't seem like a smart strategy..

[mo7888]

I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.

So S&T him in 2 years for much less value and spend the next 2 years in the play-in? That doesn't seem like a smart strategy..

[Dejounte]

I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.

It’s straight up out of character for an organization that preaches to their players to compete and to give it their all.

All folks can point back to is the Spurs doing it for Timmy decades ago.

[Dejounte]

I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.

It’s straight up out of character for an organization that preaches to their players to compete and to give it their all.

All folks can point back to is the Spurs doing it for Timmy decades ago.

[baseline bum]

Washington doesn't own there pick next year I don't believe..


Can't because Washington owe their 2023 pick to NY - lottery protected and has protections until 2026.

Shit. Not on board with any Murray trade that doesn't bring back an unprotected 2023 pick from a likely lottery team.

[Mugen]

Them trading Murray would be great validation for the fans on the board that said blow it up after Kawhi dunked all over them. They've refused to pick a side since that and their indecisiveness set the franchise back YEARS.

I hope there's some real fallout from trading away Murray starting with forcing the old man into retirement then hopefully canning Wright in a year or two when the Spurs are stuck in late lottery mode still and are nothing more than a feeder team for better organizations around the league.

What an amateur Front Office tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m down with that. I think Pop would like Davis as backup for Primo and possible starting PG (I know he’s a SG but can really play PG) and 3 first round draft picks. Then get Ayton.

Ayton is too old and doesn't fit this team's timeline. Spurs should not sign anybody over 20. Besides that they are trying to get the #1 pick, Ayton would make them win games


All this tells me that the Spurs are on the verge of pushing the button for a full rebuild.

Many on this board have been clamoring for this. It makes sense on so many levels.

Pop jumps on the grenade of coaching losses as retribution for his many wins and, in doing so, sets up the next coach with a puncher's chance of winning in a couple of years.
This means that Pop will get to really coach this season, which he loves. Lots of teaching with these young guys. Also, there may be the idea that our real division rivals will be OKC and Houston in a few years and we need to reload with younger players to be competitive in 2025 and beyond.

Whatever the case, I'd miss Dejounte, but, fully understand and be pretty happy with multiple firsts and a good young player.

Of course we do this exactly the season after the old man got his record. But players need to :pop: "get over themselves"



I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.

Spurs FO has been beyond stupid since 2017, nothing new. Last offseason was actually the first time since then where they did things right

[Mr. Body]

So S&T him in 2 years for much less value and spend the next 2 years in the play-in? That doesn't seem like a smart strategy..

It's the right strategy. You get two years of All-Star play and leadership. You don't tell the rest of your players that they are out the door the second they might earn good money.

That's really bad team management. This isn't a video game.

[mo7888]

Shit. Not on board with any Murray trade that doesn't bring back an unprotected 2023 pick from a likely lottery team.

You might be able to construct a deal with NY and Washington (if NY values Keldon and cap space alot) where DJ goes wo Washington and KJ goes to NY with NY sending back Fournier for cap relief and Washington sending back KCP for salary ballast. In that scenario Washington would lift the restrictions on their 2023 pick and NY would send their own first and Washington's first to us with Washington also sending future picks/swaps...

That could give us 3 shots at the lottery next year...

[mo7888]

It's the right strategy. You get two years of All-Star play and leadership. You don't tell the rest of your players that they are out the door the second they might earn good money.

That's really bad team management. This isn't a video game.

No its not a video game...it's a guarantee to be a mediocre team seeded between 7-11 for the foreseeable future...if that's our goal then your strategy is sound...

[RC_Drunkford]

timvp in case the DJ trade doesn't happen, are there some plans to get DJ some help or do the Spurs plan to do basically the same thing they did last season? Do you know anything about that?

[RC_Drunkford]

timvp in case the DJ trade doesn't happen, are there some plans to get DJ some help or do the Spurs plan to do basically the same thing they did last season? Do you know anything about that?

[Mr. Body]

No its not a video game...it's a guarantee to be a mediocre team seeded between 7-11 for the foreseeable future...if that's our goal then your strategy is sound...

The fallacy in this thought is that the draft picks will automatically make a better team. The opposite is more likely -- a treadmill bad team.

The fallacy in this thought is that the team isn't already close to the playoffs, which it is. There were two major things needed, which was size and being able to close games.

Last summer, everyone was complaining about how this was the first year in decades where we didn't have an All-Star. Well, we developed an All-Star. The fallacy is in not seeing that everyone on the team is improving.

I feel like people think this team is stuck in concrete and the only way it gets better is by these nebulous, intangible first round picks. Or that these nebulous, first round picks magically give us a tall skinny French guy.

There is absolute danger that this kind of stuff ruins team chemistry and has everyone looking behind their backs, wondering where their next destination is. Again, this isn't a vidya game. These are real people.

[Dejounte]

Some people here I feel like would have been better off being OKC fans (and their destiny for greatness) than Spurs fans.

[Drom John]

timvp Good but formatting issues.
I'm using Chrome, and there were several white space gaps over a screen long between text paragraphs. I first thought the page wasn't finished loading. I have not had this problem on any other front page post.

Also, can you put bylines on the front page?

[Drom John]

timvp Good but formatting issues.
I'm using Chrome, and there were several white space gaps over a screen long between text paragraphs. I first thought the page wasn't finished loading. I have not had this problem on any other front page post.

Also, can you put bylines on the front page?

[rascal]

Draft picks are the only way the spurs are going to find the franchise player. It's the way it's worked for the Spurs in the past. They build their teams with the draft.

They aren't going to be singing one in FA or trading for a franchise player.

[rascal]

Draft picks are the only way the spurs are going to find the franchise player. It's the way it's worked for the Spurs in the past. They build their teams with the draft.

They aren't going to be singing one in FA or trading for a franchise player.

[Dejounte]

Even the Hawks “insider” from their board is running out of BS to say :lmao

a lot of their fans are slowly doubting anything will happen

[Leetonidas]

1541771802749403136

Lol twitter pages sourcing timvp now :lol

[Mr. Body]

Draft picks are the only way the spurs are going to find the franchise player. It's the way it's worked for the Spurs in the past. They build their teams with the draft.

They aren't going to be singing one in FA or trading for a franchise player.

You realize Dejounte Murray was drafted, right? And that Keldon, and Vassell, and all these players were drafted? And you realize that most 'franchise players' in this league were not franchise players right out of the box?

I really wonder at how people process information.

[RLT]

Murray's timeline doesn't match up with the youth movement, so move him.

This. It's unfortunate but a trade makes the most sense for both parties.

[John B]

I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.

I don’t think it happens without some frustrations from DJ and the Spurs are catering to his request. Timvp mentioned that DJ has not requested any trades but is open to play with Trae. And he has expressed frustrations in the past, albeit not getting enough appreciations by the media because he plays for a small market, and a team that is rebuilding at the moment. I think Murray feels it hurts his “stardom,” not getting MIP, etc. He has a point. Demar couldn’t even get AS as a Spur but an All-NBA with the winning Bulls with almost the same production stats. I don’t fault DJ for wanting out especially if he feels he’s on his peak and not getting the share of the limelight. In Spurs perspective, DJ is NOT a max player worth 200 million contract, not if DJ cannot even get them in the playoffs. A championship is another, but at least get the team in the playoffs if he’s a Max contract player. Who knows if DJ would jump ship in 2 years? One remembers Kawhi not so long ago. Also I don’t know if Pop is thrilled with DJ’s twitter-happy fingers. Pop has always played it tight-lip as far as Spurs business is concern. So there are reasons that a trade would be forthcoming. I think if it doesn’t happen now, it would by trade deadline. I think the Spurs would benefit getting a huge haul now if they are going to move him anyway. Waiting for a trade deadline would only attract contenders then, who need that extra push, but whose picks would be relatively lower than teams like Hawks, Wizards, TWolves.

Preferably I like the Wizards and target Davis plus picks. Davis to me will be better than DJ would ever be, especially as a leader. Then I’d run for Ayton or Turner. I seriously don’t think losing DJ sends us back. I’ve pointed before that DJ might be a “system player” with Tre Jones almost getting a triple double whenever he starts. I think Primo would be fine and I think PATFO knows that so they’re comfortable moving forward. I think DJ can help other teams, but to me he is what I said a borderline AS, and not a Max player. Cash in, run and don’t look back. Peace :toast

[Mr. Body]

The dark shadow looming behind all this, I feel, is Klutch. I don't think the Spurs want to deal with them and ever since DJM signed with them I felt this sort of thing would happen.

Again, whether Murray is a max guy or not is not the issue. The question is how this is being handled. If Vassel and Keldon are the next two guys up, then how are they going to develop knowing they're going to get a boot to the rear in a couple of years?

[Mr. Body]

The dark shadow looming behind all this, I feel, is Klutch. I don't think the Spurs want to deal with them and ever since DJM signed with them I felt this sort of thing would happen.

Again, whether Murray is a max guy or not is not the issue. The question is how this is being handled. If Vassel and Keldon are the next two guys up, then how are they going to develop knowing they're going to get a boot to the rear in a couple of years?

[John B]

The fallacy in this thought is that the draft picks will automatically make a better team. The opposite is more likely -- a treadmill bad team.

The fallacy in this thought is that the team isn't already close to the playoffs, which it is. There were two major things needed, which was size and being able to close games.

Last summer, everyone was complaining about how this was the first year in decades where we didn't have an All-Star. Well, we developed an All-Star. The fallacy is in not seeing that everyone on the team is improving.

I feel like people think this team is stuck in concrete and the only way it gets better is by these nebulous, intangible first round picks. Or that these nebulous, first round picks magically give us a tall skinny French guy.

There is absolute danger that this kind of stuff ruins team chemistry and has everyone looking behind their backs, wondering where their next destination is. Again, this isn't a vidya game. These are real people.


Do you feel DJ is worth a 200 million contract? Do you think DJ feels he does and if he doesn’t get it that he’ll walk?

I don’t think he’s a max contract player. Yes he’s athletic and very good, but a borderline AS in my opinion. In truth, I think he’s a “system player” whose production can be mimicked with a capable guy. I argued Tre Jones averaged slmost triple double also when he starts. Imo an improved Primo would do as good setting up the team. And if the Spurs can get a huge haul while DJ is hot, then the FO needs to look out for what’s best for the team in the long run.

As mentioned, I doubt this happened in a vacuum. DJ has shown frustrations that started the wheels turning.

[Mugen]

The dark shadow looming behind all this, I feel, is Klutch. I don't think the Spurs want to deal with them and ever since DJM signed with them I felt this sort of thing would happen.

Again, whether Murray is a max guy or not is not the issue. The question is how this is being handled. If Vassel and Keldon are the next two guys up, then how are they going to develop knowing they're going to get a boot to the rear in a couple of years?

Then you might as well ship Keldon out as well :lol

Spurs dealing Murray partly because of Klutch would be a death knell to their future, you might as well just stick to international guys if you're not going to deal with an agency that handles (and will handle) a lot of the best players in the league. That'd be absolutely stupid on their part.

[Mr. Body]

Do you feel DJ is worth a 200 million contract? Do you think DJ feels he does and if he doesn’t get it that he’ll walk?

I don’t think he’s a max contract player. Yes he’s athletic and very good, but a borderline AS in my opinion. In truth, I think he’s a “system player” whose production can be mimicked with a capable guy. I argued Tre Jones averaged slmost triple double also when he starts. Imo an improved Primo would do as good setting up the team. And if the Spurs can get a huge haul while DJ is hot, then the FO needs to look out for what’s best for the team in the long run.

As mentioned, I doubt this happened in a vacuum. DJ has shown frustrations that started the wheels turning.

When did I say that? I don't think you have understood any of the very basic things I'm saying.

[Mr. Body]

Then you might as well ship Keldon out as well :lol

Spurs dealing Murray partly because of Klutch would be a death knell to their future, you might as well just stick to international guys if you're not going to deal with an agency that handles (and will handle) a lot of the best players in the league. That'd be absolutely stupid on their part.

If Keldon is Klutch, then that's also a problem if he blows up to where Dejounte is (I don't think he will). Klutch is a big issue in this league.

[Mr. Body]

Then you might as well ship Keldon out as well :lol

Spurs dealing Murray partly because of Klutch would be a death knell to their future, you might as well just stick to international guys if you're not going to deal with an agency that handles (and will handle) a lot of the best players in the league. That'd be absolutely stupid on their part.

If Keldon is Klutch, then that's also a problem if he blows up to where Dejounte is (I don't think he will). Klutch is a big issue in this league.

[John B]

The fallacy in this thought is that the draft picks will automatically make a better team. The opposite is more likely -- a treadmill bad team.

The fallacy in this thought is that the team isn't already close to the playoffs, which it is. There were two major things needed, which was size and being able to close games.

Last summer, everyone was complaining about how this was the first year in decades where we didn't have an All-Star. Well, we developed an All-Star. The fallacy is in not seeing that everyone on the team is improving.

I feel like people think this team is stuck in concrete and the only way it gets better is by these nebulous, intangible first round picks. Or that these nebulous, first round picks magically give us a tall skinny French guy.

There is absolute danger that this kind of stuff ruins team chemistry and has everyone looking behind their backs, wondering where their next destination is. Again, this isn't a vidya game. These are real people.


Do you feel DJ is worth a 200 million contract? Do you think DJ feels he does and if he doesn’t get it that he’ll walk?

I don’t think he’s a max contract player. Yes he’s athletic and very good, but a borderline AS in my opinion. In truth, I think he’s a “system player” whose production can be mimicked with a capable guy. I argued Tre Jones averaged slmost triple double also when he starts. Imo an improved Primo would do as good setting up the team. And if the Spurs can get a huge haul while DJ is hot, then the FO needs to look out for what’s best for the team in the long run.

As mentioned, I doubt this happened in a vacuum. DJ has shown frustrations that started the wheels turning.

[rjv]

You realize Dejounte Murray was drafted, right? And that Keldon, and Vassell, and all these players were drafted? And you realize that most 'franchise players' in this league were not franchise players right out of the box?

I really wonder at how people process information.

indeed.

[rjv]

another question to ask is how much of a draw is DJ? and how would his absence impact some already pedestrian season attendance figures?

[rascal]

Murray is not a franchise player you build around. Spurs need to find that type of player in the draft.

Can you process that Mr. Body.

[Dex]

It sends a message that the Spurs are going in on a full rebuild with the youth movement.

Players know it's a business and trades are part of what can happen.

That's exactly what the Spurs did with DeMar and people on this board bashed them for "not trading him when his value was high"

Unfortunately, you're never gonna please everyone. I agree with you that he was a homegrown asset and putting him on the block may send some shock through the locker room, but NBA is still a business at the end of the day.

Spurs aren't going to improve by resting on their laurels which only seem to be good enough for a fringe playoff team.

[Mugen]

If Keldon is Klutch, then that's also a problem if he blows up to where Dejounte is (I don't think he will). Klutch is a big issue in this league.

Keldon is part of Klutch. If even a whiff gets out that the Spurs dealt Murray because of his Klutch affiliation then that's it for the franchise.

Like it or not, Klutch is a power player in the league probably even after LeBron retires. You do not blacklist them for the simple reason that it screws you over royally when drafting, signing FAs, etc. affiliated with them. It'd be one of the stupidest move that the organization could do. I think Wright and Pop are pretty dumb but they're not that dumb :lol

[John B]

The dark shadow looming behind all this, I feel, is Klutch. I don't think the Spurs want to deal with them and ever since DJM signed with them I felt this sort of thing would happen.

Again, whether Murray is a max guy or not is not the issue. The question is how this is being handled. If Vassel and Keldon are the next two guys up, then how are they going to develop knowing they're going to get a boot to the rear in a couple of years?

All they have to do is look back. The Spurs took the Big 3 in 4 championships with them making sacrifices. San Antonio is NOT a big market who afford paying luxury taxes. IF they are committed and believe that PATFO is trying to build a championship team, which unequivocally they are, then they know what to expect. They will get only what the team can afford to keep a competitive team. IF DJ feels the same commitment, then he too should take a paycut. I don’t blame him if he doesn’t and if he seeks greener pasture. But knowing what Spurs stand for in years and the championships it brought with its ways, should not leave anything in doubt what to expect.

[Spurs9]

I'm clicking all the ads on this site tbh, gotta get timvp paid.

[The Truth #6]

I don’t see DJ as a Brian Wright type player, at least as far as the profile of players we’ve brought in after Luka, which seems to be 100% Wright. That doesn’t mean they have to dump him, but it does make me wonder about what type of personality they’re trying to construct. I don’t see the FO ever fully trusting DJ enough to pull him into their inner circle decision making process, like they did with prior Spurs leaders, as far as I know, at least. The problem with this is that the more DJ gets dangled like this, then that by itself could cause a problem. I see DJ taking this personally. But these are just guesses.

[John B]

It's the right strategy. You get two years of All-Star play and leadership. You don't tell the rest of your players that they are out the door the second they might earn good money.

That's really bad team management. This isn't a video game.

How much good money do you think DJ is worth vs how much good money do you think DJ feels he is worth? If there’s a big disparity there, then the Spurs are fucked in two years if they don’t move him now.

[duncan2150]

No its not a video game...it's a guarantee to be a mediocre team seeded between 7-11 for the foreseeable future...if that's our goal then your strategy is sound...

Betting on the Lottery is not a guarantee either. Look at the Rockets, Okc, they have top 5 picks in a row . Will they be better then Spurs this year and the next 2-3 years ? i'm really not sure and even if their core reach their potentials, will they be contenders ? same answer.

If i'm the Spurs i will go with this team, trying to go after a good FA this summer and then if that's not good i could deal some players by february.

[Ariel]

I do not think there's any danger of burning bridges with the players, or jeopardizing the future as a result of trading Dejounte, as long as the situation is being properly handled internally. For all we know, he's in the loop, in fact he's been reportedly in touch with potential trade partners and open to the deal. He's aware this is a business, and if the Spurs are on a different timeline than him, any player with a half functioning brain should be able to understand that, as long as we're not going behind his back like it happened to Blake Griffin on the Clippers, Haliburton in Sacramento, or even DDR in Toronto. If he's sent to a contending team with the understanding they'll max him out when the time comes and he's ok'd the deal, if anything the young players will welcome the shift to a full on rebuilding & development phase, where they'll receive more opportunities. If there's one thing that doesn't really concern me, is that the Spurs seem to be aware of that aspect and handling it well.

[Dejounte]

I don’t see DJ as a Brian Wright type player, at least as far as the profile of players we’ve brought in after Luka, which seems to be 100% Wright. That doesn’t mean they have to dump him, but it does make me wonder about what type of personality they’re trying to construct. I don’t see the FO ever fully trusting DJ enough to pull him into their inner circle decision making process, like they did with prior Spurs leaders, as far as I know, at least. The problem with this is that the more DJ gets dangled like this, then that by itself could cause a problem. I see DJ taking this personally. But these are just guesses.

DJ has said himself that he takes predraft prospects to dinner. That is just one example of how he’s part of the decision making process.

[RiverwalkParade]

Bold prediction: They will not trade Murray.
This kind of stuff happens every year, just like the Spurs are tied to every free agent ever. Don’t know why we are always on the list of “interested teams,” but the % of times this stuff ever happens is like 5%.

[John B]

Bold prediction: They will not trade Murray.
This kind of stuff happens every year, just like the Spurs are tied to every free agent ever. Don’t know why we are always on the list of “interested teams,” but the % of times this stuff ever happens is like 5%.
happens is like 5%.[/QUOTE]

But this time the Spurs are saying, they will take a Jrue package type of haul. I think that’s saying yes will move him for the right price.

[exstatic]

While 4 first round picks sound appealing on paper, 4 first round picks from the Hawks, who are likely to be a playoff team in the years to come, isn’t really that valuable. What does it matter if the picks are unprotected if they’re going to be in the 20’s anyway.

You push them out as far into the future as you can, and hope for the best. When AD was traded, I’m guessing no one saw the 2022 LAL pick swap as anything, but it turned into the #8 pick this year.

The thing is, the return isn’t going to get better. If we wait a year, it might only be 2 FRPs instead of 4.

[BatManu20]

Timvp becoming a Twitter celebrity :lol

1541799395728949248

[TDomination]

Get it Timvp!

[The Truth #6]

DJ has said himself that he takes predraft prospects to dinner. That is just one example of how he’s part of the decision making process.

Interesting. Good info. That complicates the situation more, and makes me think then that they are openly communicating with him through this process. This feels like another new era; I don’t recall these types of rumors like this exactly before, only because we had foundational players.

On a tangent: the Pop retirement decision is another interesting factor. To flip it around, maybe Dejounte doesn’t want to play for a new coach in SA?

[AFBlue]

Thank God the Twitterverse is picking up more traffic than the one-side ATL perspective. That's a tired narrative that lacks significant detail.

[mo7888]

The fallacy in this thought is that the draft picks will automatically make a better team. The opposite is more likely -- a treadmill bad team.

The fallacy in this thought is that the team isn't already close to the playoffs, which it is. There were two major things needed, which was size and being able to close games.

Last summer, everyone was complaining about how this was the first year in decades where we didn't have an All-Star. Well, we developed an All-Star. The fallacy is in not seeing that everyone on the team is improving.

I feel like people think this team is stuck in concrete and the only way it gets better is by these nebulous, intangible first round picks. Or that these nebulous, first round picks magically give us a tall skinny French guy.

There is absolute danger that this kind of stuff ruins team chemistry and has everyone looking behind their backs, wondering where their next destination is. Again, this isn't a vidya game. These are real people.

This team is stuck in concrete if they max DJ without better max players to put alongside him. Draft pick don't 'automatically' make the team better but they do give us a better chance of being better than going forward with DJ as your best player on a max deal.

[MannyIsGod]

People can't expect the Spurs to operate the same as they did in the past couple of decades because tehre is no Robinson and there is no Duncan. Thats the bottom line.

[mo7888]

Betting on the Lottery is not a guarantee either. Look at the Rockets, Okc, they have top 5 picks in a row . Will they be better then Spurs this year and the next 2-3 years ? i'm really not sure and even if their core reach their potentials, will they be contenders ? same answer.

If i'm the Spurs i will go with this team, trying to go after a good FA this summer and then if that's not good i could deal some players by february.

Show me the FA or even the obtainable player we can add to this roster that's better than DJ. Then show me the 2nd player we can add thats better than DJ that we can add because that's what it will take to compete. If there's a realistic path to obtaining that I'm all for it....I just don't see it and not one person on this board has laid out a realistic path to achieve that.

[Mr. Body]

This team is stuck in concrete if they max DJ without better max players to put alongside him. Draft pick don't 'automatically' make the team better but they do give us a better chance of being better than going forward with DJ as your best player on a max deal.

Jesus Christ I feel like people can't read.

[spurraider21]

It feels like there's a deal to be had there.

Murray and Langford for:

Gallinari, Okongwu ATL 2023 unprotected first, CHA 2023 first, 2024 swap and 2025 Top-4 protected first, 2026 swap and OKC's 2024 and 2025 unprotected seconds.
i mean yeah, if we get 3 firsts + 2 swaps + 2 seconds + okongwu thats quite the king's ransom. i dont see them giving up that much tbh

[Chinook]

i mean yeah, if we get 3 firsts + 2 swaps + 2 seconds + okongwu thats quite the king's ransom. i dont see them giving up that much tbh

I don't think they care about the seconds that much. They have more. I think they'd give up the firsts easily but might want more protections on the 2025 pick. Their natural 2023 pick is non-negotiable, and I think they know that, and as of now the Charlotte pick is heavily protected. The swaps are a potential sticking point, and I could see the Spurs relenting on the one in 2026.

[R. DeMurre]

If any of this is true, it just makes the DeRozan/Aldridge Mid Range Era all the more frustrating... I wanted a proactive aggressive approach and restart then, knowing that the post Kawhi team wasn't capable of winning a chip, but the FO stuck with them both for too long in my opinion. It was clear in 2019 that a 29 yr old DeRozan and a 33 yr old Aldridge weren't the answer, and now here we are in 2022 still hoping the assets from the DeRozan trade add up to something significant before 2026. There is some bad luck involved here, I'll give that to the Spurs. They did a good job of clearing space for this off season, but unfortunately there just aren't any big impact FAs to go after.

[mo7888]

Jesus Christ I feel like people can't read.

And I feel like some people are caught up in their emotions without the ability to evaluate rationally....so here we are....

[MannyIsGod]

It will be interesting to see what the Spurs have planned for free agency. Its hard to say you're going to be able to convince a big FA that you want them to come if you're also trying to sell your biggest star currently. Perhaps the plan is to rent out capspace for picks or assets. But it seems to me the chances of a big Ayton or Levine deal have to have gone down with this news.

[Mr. Body]

And I feel like some people are caught up in their emotions without the ability to evaluate rationally....so here we are....

Who is reacting emotionally? LMFAO

[Mr. Body]

It will be interesting to see what the Spurs have planned for free agency. Its hard to say you're going to be able to convince a big FA that you want them to come if you're also trying to sell your biggest star currently. Perhaps the plan is to rent out capspace for picks or assets. But it seems to me the chances of a big Ayton or Levine deal have to have gone down with this news.

If the Spurs are moving Murray before he costs, it's pretty clear Lavine or Ayton were ever seriously considered.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think anything is particularly clear at this moment, quite frankly. I think anyone saying otherwise is pretty full of shit.

[mo7888]

Who is reacting emotionally? LMFAO

Apparently it's you judging by your little quip...I've only gotten emotional once on ST in the last 5 years here and wasn't over an on court basketball related issue...and I'm certainly not emotional over keeping or trading a 3rd best player on a competitive team....

[Mr. Body]

Apparently it's you judging by your little quip...I've only gotten emotional once on ST in the last 5 years here and wasn't over an on court basketball related issue...and I'm certainly not emotional over keeping or trading a 3rd best player on a competitive team....

This isn't an emotional issue. But two people have claimed I've said I want to max Murray, and so, I say again, why can't you read? When did I say this?

[mo7888]

This isn't an emotional issue. But two people have claimed I've said I want to max Murray, and so, I say again, why can't you read? When did I say this?

You're right that it shouldn't be...

If you don't max DJ you lose him for nothing in 2 years. Looking at it devoid of emotion that's one of the worst possible outcomes...right next to being stuck with him without additional players beside him who are better than he is.

[Degoat]

I’m sure it’s been asked somewhere but if nothing happens can all be forgiven between the spurs and DJ? Can’t see DJ being thrilled with all the uncertainty and rumors surrounding him

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You're right that it shouldn't be...

If you don't max DJ you lose him for nothing in 2 years. Looking at it devoid of emotion that's one of the worst possible outcomes...right next to being stuck with him without additional players beside him who are better than he is.

This isn't necessarily true. Sign and trades exist and there's a good reason for all parties to do it. People on ST thought DDR should have been traded for nothing and he ended up bringing a lot of assets after he became a FA.

[Mr. Body]

This isn't necessarily true. Sign and trades exist and there's a good reason for all parties to do it. People on ST thought DDR should have been traded for nothing and he ended up bringing a lot of assets after he became a FA.

Correct. S&Ts are much more common for the simple fact that it retains teams' salary structures and most contending teams don't have the cap to sign FAs outright anyway.

[Dex]

I’m sure it’s been asked somewhere but if nothing happens can all be forgiven between the spurs and DJ? Can’t see DJ being thrilled with all the uncertainty and rumors surrounding him

Probably never great to know you are trade bait, but at least the Spurs are keeping him in the loop if he is already talking with Trae and aware that Atlanta may be on the table. I have to imagine they are trying to find a situation that works for him, too.

Better than doing everything behind his back and then being like SURPRISE, YOU'RE OUT like Toronto did with DeMar.

[mo7888]

This isn't necessarily true. Sign and trades exist and there's a good reason for all parties to do it. People on ST thought DDR should have been traded for nothing and he ended up bringing a lot of assets after he became a FA.

While I'll concede that is technically possible in two years if he wants to go to a capped out team...you risk him taking a max offer from a team with cap space and of you do S&T to a capped out team you're getting a DDR return instead of the multiple picks we are talking about here as well as missing out on a once in a generation type draft.

[Mugen]

Probably never great to know you are trade bait, but at least the Spurs are keeping him in the loop if he is already talking with Trae and aware that Atlanta may be on the table. I have to imagine they are trying to find a situation that works for him, too.

Better than doing everything behind his back and then being like SURPRISE, YOU'RE OUT like Toronto did with DeMar.

Yeah, I'm sure they're still really regretting that :lol

[JPB]

These editing issues provide a lot of fun, tbh.

[John B]

I’m sure it’s been asked somewhere but if nothing happens can all be forgiven between the spurs and DJ? Can’t see DJ being thrilled with all the uncertainty and rumors surrounding him

I don’t think this thing happened without the FO sitting with DJ. He probably voiced out frustrations that he’s not getting enough recognition out there, not getting the MIP, not in All-Defensive, almost didn’t make the AS, all these play when you think you’re in a small market or your team is not making playoffs. Okay will send out a word that you’re available for this much and get you to the right team if possible. The Spurs have historically done good for their players. So that being, I’m sure DJ is on the loop. That’s why I think he gets moved if not now by trade deadline. By then they’ll ask, DJ this is as much as we can afford you and still able to sign help. If they see eye to eye, I think he stays. I don’t know how much DJ can improve to be worth the Max contract. As of now, he’s not. I’m rooting that he does, maybe he can get stronger to absorb contacts when finishing strong. He needs to attack the rim more, improve his 3pt more and average in the high 20’s to carry this team. I think that’ s the definition of a Max player. Get this team in the playoffs at least. For now he’s borderline AS with predictable go-to elbow shot. That doesn’t cut it imo.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

While I'll concede that is technically possible in two years if he wants to go to a capped out team...you risk him taking a max offer from a team with cap space and of you do S&T to a capped out team you're getting a DDR return instead of the multiple picks we are talking about here as well as missing out on a once in a generation type draft.

Well yeah it depends on the offer but the Jrue package projects to be 3 picks in the 20s and two swaps that'll never happen. Spurs have time on their side, no need to take an offer like this.

[exstatic]

This isn't necessarily true. Sign and trades exist and there's a good reason for all parties to do it. People on ST thought DDR should have been traded for nothing and he ended up bringing a lot of assets after he became a FA.

DD was a multi time All Star and All NBA selection. Even he didn’t pull 4 FRPs. The price will only go down as his FA approaches.

[mo7888]

Well yeah it depends on the offer but the Jrue package projects to be 3 picks in the 20s and two swaps that'll never happen. Spurs have time on their side, no need to take an offer like this.

Sure, if you think we're getting picks and swaps that won't convey or are in the 20's it makes it hard to take that package but, I've been pretty clear about getting a 23 unprotected 1st in the deal from a 3rd team to go along with our own lottery pick in 23 when it comes to having a good deal in place from our perspective.

[BatManu20]

Dejounte to ATL confirmed.


1541838693354414082

[CGD]

So, if the Murray trade materializes, what do we think the next move is? Jakob?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

3 firsts and two first round swaps? For a rebuilding team that’s too much to pass up on.

I love DJM, but long term that’s a no brainer.

[mo7888]

So, if the Murray trade materializes, what do we think the next move is? Jakob?

I think the logical moves are 1) moving Jak, 2) Pop retiring, and 3) listening to offers on KJ.

I'm not saying 2 or 3 are likely...only that they're logical..

[Dex]

Dejounte to ATL confirmed.


1541838693354414082

This dude with his cryptic ass tweets :lmao

[mo7888]

This dude with his cryptic ass tweets :lmao

He's enjoying this...and he should be...

[rascal]

I’m sure it’s been asked somewhere but if nothing happens can all be forgiven between the spurs and DJ? Can’t see DJ being thrilled with all the uncertainty and rumors surrounding him

DJ might be looking forward to a trade instead of a slow rebuild.

[MultiTroll]

I’m sure it’s been asked somewhere but if nothing happens can all be forgiven between the spurs and DJ? Can’t see DJ being thrilled with all the uncertainty and rumors surrounding him
NBA has scores of "almost traded" that ended up being Champions thereafter. Just a couple.
Robert Horry was rumored to go from the Rockets to the Spurs for Sean Elliot. Didn't. Next, Dad Killer retires and Rockets go back to back.

Brent Barry was literally 5 minutes of paperwork from being a Hornet and JR Dumbshit a Spur. Paperwork or Rod Thorn the Spurs Hater cock blocking, take your pick.
Regardless, Barrdwawg went on to contribute to the 2007 Spurs Championship and played very well in the 2008 rip off vs Lakers. The Dereek Swisher obvious shooting foul on Barrys 3 point attempt that LakerRef swallowed.

DJ does not seem like modern day phaggots Simmons, Kyrie Irving, Harden etc.
Also is mentored by Lebron.
He'll be fine.

[DAF86]

So, if the Murray trade materializes, what do we think the next move is? Jakob?

If the Murray trade happens, it is to tank hard for that French unicorn. So, yeah, you have to trade Poeltl at that point. Trade any serviceable veteran and just play the farm the entire season.

Lineup of Primo, Branham, Vassell, Keldon, Landale with Wesley as the 6th man.

[DAF86]

If the Murray trade happens, it is to tank hard for that French unicorn. So, yeah, you have to trade Poeltl at that point. Trade any serviceable veteran and just play the farm the entire season.

Lineup of Primo, Branham, Vassell, Keldon, Landale with Wesley as the 6th man.

I was forgetting Sochan. :lol

[BackHome]

Yeah DJ is loving the attention- Who doesn’t like to be fought over. Lol

[John B]

Can DJ improve in two years to be worth a max contract? It’s realistic but should Spurs gamble and risk him walking or a less s&t return than what they are getting offered now?

[Chinook]

If the Murray trade happens, it is to tank hard for that French unicorn. So, yeah, you have to trade Poeltl at that point. Trade any serviceable veteran and just play the farm the entire season.

Lineup of Primo, Branham, Vassell, Keldon, Landale with Wesley as the 6th man.

If you're trying to tank, you got to re-sign Lonnie.

[NASpurs]

If you're trying to tank, you got to re-sign Lonnie.

And a third tour of duty for tank commander Bryn Forbes

[John B]

Dejounte to ATL confirmed.


1541838693354414082

Yeah that’s a picture of a man who’s fully aware of what’s going on.

After the Big 3, it’s too high a bar to set, players who don’t need the limelight but trusting the system will develop a championship team with sacrifices and patience. Easier said with Timmy in the middle. But still DJ strikes me as someone who is bothered for not getting the MIP award, the All-Defensive and other individual accolades more than the team. It’s getting clearer he is getting moved.

[John B]

Yeah DJ is loving the attention- Who doesn’t like to be fought over. Lol

Manu and Timmy would shrug them off. TP would probably seeking a mire competitive team to play with

[duncan2150]

Show me the FA or even the obtainable player we can add to this roster that's better than DJ. Then show me the 2nd player we can add thats better than DJ that we can add because that's what it will take to compete. If there's a realistic path to obtaining that I'm all for it....I just don't see it and not one person on this board has laid out a realistic path to achieve that.

I'm not talking about a better player than DJ, it's more about going all in by the draft. Im not sure it's better than trying to makes this team better.

Offcourse if you have a really big offer fort DJ you need to think about it'

[mo7888]

I'm not talking about a better player than DJ, it's more about going all in by the draft. Im not sure it's better than trying to makes this team better.

Offcourse if you have a really big offer fort DJ you need to think about it'

I'm not sure I'm following here...what do you mean about going all in by the draft?

[Mr. Body]

Ledger

Outgoing:
Dejounte Murray, the player
Opportunity cost of two years of near All-Star level play or higher
Team leadership

Incoming:
A clutch of draft picks
Since draft picks are protected, no additional chances at top picks
Potential changed team psychology ("If we play well enough, will we get traded immediately?")
A potentially worse team, with Primo and Jones as sole PG types (with only as much as a 14% chance for tall skinny French guy)
Probable better overall package in picks (alone) than the S&T for moving Murray in two years (picks and players)

[duncan2150]

I'm not sure I'm following here...what do you mean about going all in by the draft?

Tanking for next year draft

[mo7888]

Tanking for next year draft

Gotcha

[baseline bum]

This team is stuck in concrete if they max DJ without better max players to put alongside him. Draft pick don't 'automatically' make the team better but they do give us a better chance of being better than going forward with DJ as your best player on a max deal.

Why I was really hoping they would have been able to tank this year to land a top 4 pick and hopefully have the talent next to him to where maxing Murray would have made sense. But Sochan's not that guy.

[mo7888]

Ledger

Outgoing:
Dejounte Murray, the player
Opportunity cost of two years of near All-Star level play or higher
Team leadership

Incoming:
A clutch of draft picks
Since draft picks are protected, no additional chances at top picks
Potential changed team psychology ("If we play well enough, will we get traded immediately?")
A potentially worse team, with Primo and Jones as sole PG types (with only as much as a 14% chance for tall skinny French guy)
Probable better overall package in picks (alone) than the S&T for moving Murray in two years (picks and players)

Yea...Who said all picks are unprotected? And how are you getting a 14% cance at Wembanyama?

[mo7888]

Why I was really hoping they would have been able to tank this year to land a top 4 pick and hopefully have the talent next to him to where maxing Murray would have made sense. But Sochan's not that guy.

Agreed...of we had one of the top guys this year we're having a wholly different conversation right now..

[mo7888]

Yea...Who said all picks are unprotected? And how are you getting a 14% cance at Wembanyama?

'Protected'...couldn't edit by the time I saw that..

[vy65]

Ledger

Outgoing:
Dejounte Murray, the player
Opportunity cost of two years of near All-Star level play or higher
Team leadership

Incoming:
A clutch of draft picks
Since draft picks are protected, no additional chances at top picks
Potential changed team psychology ("If we play well enough, will we get traded immediately?")
A potentially worse team, with Primo and Jones as sole PG types (with only as much as a 14% chance for tall skinny French guy)
Probable better overall package in picks (alone) than the S&T for moving Murray in two years (picks and players)

I thought Primo was going to be special?

Is the team's goal "leadership" or is it to be in serious contention for a championship? As Mo said upthread, no one has articulated a path to contention that involves keeping the team we have and adding available parts.

[baseline bum]

Agreed...of we had one of the top guys this year we're having a wholly different conversation right now..

Ugh if they could somehow flip Poetl into an unprotected first from a lottery team by taking a bad contract back, and then just sit Murray late in the season for tanking purposes. Because dumping Murray is a bitter pill to swallow.

[The Truth #6]

Thank god DJ is only trolling and not creating a real media shit storm about all this. That’s all I’m certain of.

[baseline bum]

I thought Primo was going to be special?

Is the team's goal "leadership" or is it to be in serious contention for a championship? As Mo said upthread, no one has articulated a path to contention that involves keeping the team we have and adding available parts.

Maybe flipping Poetl for picks and sitting Murray late in the season like OKC does with SGA would be enough to get in the tank sweepstakes. Ugh I really don't want to dump Murray and have no established talent whatsoever on the team. I still don't know WTF the team seems to be seeing in Primo based on his rookie year. Doesn't seem anything like the Parker situation when the Spurs knew they had a star by second game of summer league and Seattle was beating down the Spurs door offering Gary Payton for Parker after seeing him there.

[baseline bum]

Is next year's draft good enough that the Spurs would still get some serious talent in the top 4 if they missed the #1 pick though?

[mo7888]

Is next year's draft good enough that the Spurs would still get some serious talent in the top 4 if they missed the #1 pick though?

Yes, the top 6 are thought to be better than the top pick this year by most talent evaluators.

[vy65]

Maybe flipping Poetl for picks and sitting Murray late in the season like OKC does with SGA would be enough to get in the tank sweepstakes. Ugh I really don't want to dump Murray and have no established talent whatsoever on the team. I still don't know WTF the team seems to be seeing in Primo based on his rookie year. Doesn't seem anything like the Parker situation when the Spurs knew they had a star by second game of summer league and Seattle was beating down the Spurs door offering Gary Payton for Parker after seeing him there.

I agree with you on shipping Murray. I don't want to either. That said, we're a treadmill/perpetual play in team, and the only way out of purgatory is to liquidate the little talent we have for a chance at something better. It's a rock-and-a-hard-place situation for sure.

And yah, only moron fluffers think Primo is anything more than a potential career journeyman.

[Robz4000]

Is next year's draft good enough that the Spurs would still get some serious talent in the top 4 if they missed the #1 pick though?

A lottery pick in 2023 is the same as a top 4 pick in this year's draft imo.

[Mr. Body]

Yea...Who said all picks are unprotected? And how are you getting a 14% cance at Wembanyama?

None of the picks in play are unprotected and I doubt they can get any. And 14% is the best any team, even the worst team, can get as a chance for the top pick in the draft.

[rascal]

Yes, the top 6 are thought to be better than the top pick this year by most talent evaluators.

That would increase the Spurs trajectory of being a contender and align with the young core they already have if they can land two picks inside the top 10 instead of keeping Murray and having no picks inside the top 10.

[exstatic]

I was forgetting Sochan. :lol

And the better center in Zollins.

[baseline bum]

I agree with you on shipping Murray. I don't want to either. That said, we're a treadmill/perpetual play in team, and the only way out of purgatory is to liquidate the little talent we have for a chance at something better. It's a rock-and-a-hard-place situation for sure.

And yah, only moron fluffers think Primo is anything more than a potential career journeyman.

I'd like to think Primo is more than that based on this team's success in the draft, but he's a long term project at best and no way he could be thought of as a reasonable substitute for Murray. If OKC can win 24 games and get a #2 pick with SGA though surely the Spurs can gut the rest of the team and get in that range with Murray still the starting PG too. Dump Poetl for sure and if comes to Keldon vs Dejounte, I guess dump Keldon too. Though I don't think Johnson is enough of a talent that it would make a difference either way.

[mo7888]

None of the picks in play are unprotected and I doubt they can get any. And 14% is the best any team, even the worst team, can get as a chance for the top pick in the draft.

Quote from Timvp this morning "San Antonio’s asking price for Murray is four first round draft picks with little to no protections. Alternatively, the Spurs want three minimally protected first rounders and two unprotected first round pick swaps."

I'm not sure where you're getting your "none of the picks in play are unprotected" mantra but thats simply not what's been reported...

[mo7888]

That would increase the Spurs trajectory of being a contender and align with the young core they already have if they can land two picks inside the top 10 instead of keeping Murray and having no picks inside the top 10.

Correct... it's simply our best play at the moment it seems to me..

[Mr. Body]

Quote from Timvp this morning "San Antonio’s asking price for Murray is four first round draft picks with little to no protections. Alternatively, the Spurs want three minimally protected first rounders and two unprotected first round pick swaps."

I'm not sure where you're getting your "none of the picks in play are unprotected" mantra but thats simply not what's been reported...

What the Spurs are asking is not going to come to fruition. No one is giving up unprotected picks anymore. Minimally protected would mean more like 1-10 or at least 1-4, which again means no tall skinny French guy. All the picks bandied about by Atlanta and elsewhere are heavily protected.

[vy65]

I'd like to think Primo is more than that based on this team's success in the draft, but he's a long term project at best and no way he could be thought of as a reasonable substitute for Murray. If OKC can win 24 games and get a #2 pick with SGA though surely the Spurs can gut the rest of the team and get in that range with Murray still the starting PG too. Dump Poetl for sure and if comes to Keldon vs Dejounte, I guess dump Keldon too. Though I don't think Johnson is enough of a talent that it would make a difference either way.

I'm with you - there should be a path to tanking that allows you to keep DJ. But then you're left facing what you do with his contract. I have a tough time believing DJ is a $200 million man.

[mo7888]

What the Spurs are asking is not going to come to fruition. No one is giving up unprotected picks anymore. Minimally protected would mean more like 1-10 or at least 1-4, which again means no tall skinny French guy. All the picks bandied about by Atlanta and elsewhere are heavily protected.

Ah... I see...the sources in your head are better than Timvp's sources in the organization....got it...

[baseline bum]

I'm with you - there should be a path to tanking that allows you to keep DJ. But then you're left facing what you do with his contract. I have a tough time believing DJ is a $200 million man.

If the Spurs can draft a high level player and thus have enough talent to actually have a shot at competing I'd say to pay Murray his market value in two years.

[exstatic]

Can DJ improve in two years to be worth a max contract? It’s realistic but should Spurs gamble and risk him walking or a less s&t return than what they are getting offered now?

Nah. This is pretty much peak DJ, barely a second option, maybe a 2.5. He was a fantastic pick at 29, but won’t lead you anywhere but the play in.

[rascal]

Nah. This is pretty much peak DJ, barely a second option, maybe a 2.5. He was a fantastic pick at 29, but won’t lead you anywhere but the play in.

Agree
There is a good chance DJ won't even be an all star next year and it would only take his numbers to come down a little
and that can happen with improvement from other players and if that happens Murray's value comes down.

[BillMc]

Nah. This is pretty much peak DJ, barely a second option, maybe a 2.5. He was a fantastic pick at 29, but won’t lead you anywhere but the play in.
This. The time to trade is now. His value likely will never be higher.

[RC_Drunkford]

If any of this is true, it just makes the DeRozan/Aldridge Mid Range Era all the more frustrating... I wanted a proactive aggressive approach and restart then, knowing that the post Kawhi team wasn't capable of winning a chip, but the FO stuck with them both for too long in my opinion. It was clear in 2019 that a 29 yr old DeRozan and a 33 yr old Aldridge weren't the answer, and now here we are in 2022 still hoping the assets from the DeRozan trade add up to something significant before 2026. There is some bad luck involved here, I'll give that to the Spurs. They did a good job of clearing space for this off season, but unfortunately there just aren't any big impact FAs to go after.

:pop: „I had to get my record“

[spurraider21]

Nah. This is pretty much peak DJ, barely a second option, maybe a 2.5. He was a fantastic pick at 29, but won’t lead you anywhere but the play in.
not sure about that tbh. he's gotten better literally every year and he's 25

[Payote75]

Anyone else feel who the other east team is. Many speculate the Knicks but they got for Brunson and the key phrase is a young desirable player they are not trading Barrett and obi or anyone else on their team is not young and desirable.

So any thoughts my mind goes to the Wizards rt away or obviously Charlotte they both have some desirable young players if only one is to be included. Can't say any other team sticks out.

[JPB]

Quote from Timvp this morning "San Antonio’s asking price for Murray is four first round draft picks with little to no protections. Alternatively, the Spurs want three minimally protected first rounders and two unprotected first round pick swaps."

I'm not sure where you're getting your "none of the picks in play are unprotected" mantra but thats simply not what's been reported...

Which doesn't change much tbh. Atlata is prolly gonna be a PO teams for the years to come, these picks wouldn't certainly be lottery.

[rascal]

not sure about that tbh. he's gotten better literally every year and he's 25

That's exactly why his value is high. If you and everyone else was sure DJ has peaked his value would not be as high.

You don't want to shop him after a bad year or declining numbers.

[mo7888]

Anyone else feel who the other east team is. Many speculate the Knicks but they got for Brunson and the key phrase is a young desirable player they are not trading Barrett and obi or anyone else on their team is not young and desirable.

So any thoughts my mind goes to the Wizards rt away or obviously Charlotte they both have some desirable young players if only one is to be included. Can't say any other team sticks out.

NY or Washington is my guess...outside shot of it being Detroit or Orlando..

[rascal]

Which doesn't change much tbh. Atlata is prolly gonna be a PO teams for the years to come, these picks wouldn't certainly be lottery.

You never know. Injuries can destroy any team.

I thought Portland and The Lakers were playoff teams last year.

[offset formation]

I'm with you - there should be a path to tanking that allows you to keep DJ. But then you're left facing what you do with his contract. I have a tough time believing DJ is a $200 million man.

You kind of answered your own question. Yes, he'll likely cost upwards of 180-200M in 2 years. And he'll be 27-28 while most of the other major players -- aside from Vassell and Johnson at 24 or 25 -- on this team would be 21 or 22, assuming we also shed Poeltl.

[Leetonidas]

If this hasn't happened by tonight it ain't happening at all

[mo7888]

Which doesn't change much tbh. Atlata is prolly gonna be a PO teams for the years to come, these picks wouldn't certainly be lottery.

It does impact the exchange I was having with Body. On a separate note, I don't think Atl is certain to be a PO with this deal.they are one Trae injury from being bottom 8 in the league as well unless they can make other moves.

[rascal]

It's best to get a third team involved, with the spurs adding another asset or player along with Collins to sweeten the deal enough for the third team to trade an unprotected pick.

[offset formation]

If this hasn't happened by tonight it ain't happening at all

It makes too much sense not to do. Ship him out. Ship out Poeltl. Tank hard. Get the best opportunity at Wembanyama you can. Come out with a huge amount of picks and supremely talented youngsters and own the NBA for another decade or two. It's the Spurs way. GSG!

[RC_Drunkford]

Anyone else feel who the other east team is. Many speculate the Knicks but they got for Brunson and the key phrase is a young desirable player they are not trading Barrett and obi or anyone else on their team is not young and desirable.

So any thoughts my mind goes to the Wizards rt away or obviously Charlotte they both have some desirable young players if only one is to be included. Can't say any other team sticks out.

could also be the Heat as reported on hoopshype. They apparently reached out, but saw that Murray is heading elsewhere. Also shoutout to timvp even hoopshype is posting him as a source now :bobo

[Robz4000]

could also be the Heat as reported on hoopshype. They apparently reached out, but saw that Murray is heading elsewhere. Also shoutout to timvp even hoopshype is posting him as a source now :bobo

:lol even yahoo sports is using him as a source

[cjw]

Three things about a trade where you take back Gallinari and picks for Murray:

1.) You almost certainly improve the Spurs’ own pick - could go from the late lottery (or better) to early lottery. It stinks for a year, but much better future shots on goal

2.) You create at least $10 million in cap space with Gallo being cut for $5 million. That gives a LOT more flexibility to be a team to facilitate other moves in free agency and accumulate more assets. Just don’t become the Thunder.

Could go the other way too and sign a guy like Brunson outright. I don’t love paying him more than Murray, but if you get a bunch of assets on top of it? Why not?

3.) Open up playing time for Primo and Young, as well as the two rookies. See what you have.

[baseline bum]

This. The time to trade is now. His value likely will never be higher.

Agreed, but not for a grab bag of non-lottery picks either through protections or through being from solidly playoff teams.

[KingKev]

Keldon is part of Klutch. If even a whiff gets out that the Spurs dealt Murray because of his Klutch affiliation then that's it for the franchise.

Like it or not, Klutch is a power player in the league probably even after LeBron retires. You do not blacklist them for the simple reason that it screws you over royally when drafting, signing FAs, etc. affiliated with them. It'd be one of the stupidest move that the organization could do. I think Wright and Pop are pretty dumb but they're not that dumb :lol

All this Klutch nonsense is so baseless.

[John B]

Agreed, but not for a grab bag of non-lottery picks either through protections or through being from solidly playoff teams.

I'm sure that's where the FO and the other teams need to meet. I'm getting all the vibes that DJ will be moved just a matter of getting the most haul for him.

[The Truth #6]

He’s improved every year. If he comes back with a legit three point shot, his value should go up.

[BackHome]

And that is why a couple of teams really want him

[slick'81]

Well see whos really willing to pay the price. If not? No go

[RC_Drunkford]

Three things about a trade where you take back Gallinari and picks for Murray:

1.) You almost certainly improve the Spurs’ own pick - could go from the late lottery (or better) to early lottery. It stinks for a year, but much better future shots on goal

2.) You create at least $10 million in cap space with Gallo being cut for $5 million. That gives a LOT more flexibility to be a team to facilitate other moves in free agency and accumulate more assets. Just don’t become the Thunder.

Could go the other way too and sign a guy like Brunson outright. I don’t love paying him more than Murray, but if you get a bunch of assets on top of it? Why not?

3.) Open up playing time for Primo and Young, as well as the two rookies. See what you have.

1. Murray for Gallo won't create any cap space, because Hawks have to fully guarantee Gallo to trade him for Murray

2. Spurs could just move J-Rich to create an extra 10 million

3. Spurs don't have no clue who to sign with the existing 32 million in cap space already

[Cklbmk]

These talks remind me of when the Spurs almost traded Tony Parker to Toronto for the #5 pick (which would have been Ed Davis). That trade would have been a big mistake in hindsight, and we’re all glad of course they didn’t end up doing it.


You mean Kawhi Leonard. The rumors were Valanciunas, but the second Kawhi slid down the draft boards.. the rumors about Tony Parker died.

[Mr. Body]

All this Klutch nonsense is so baseless.

Au contraire, lol. Klutch is a serious problem. Manipulative and dishonest.

[KingKev]

Yeah that’s a picture of a man who’s fully aware of what’s going on.After the Big 3, it’s too high a bar to set, players who don’t need the limelight but trusting the system will develop a championship team with sacrifices and patience. Easier said with Timmy in the middle. But still DJ strikes me as someone who is bothered for not getting the MIP award, the All-Defensive and other individual accolades more than the team. It’s getting clearer he is getting moved.

[cjw]

1. Murray for Gallo won't create any cap space, because Hawks have to fully guarantee Gallo to trade him for Murray

2. Spurs could just move J-Rich to create an extra 10 million

3. Spurs don't have no clue who to sign with the existing 32 million in cap space already

Forgot about #1, and fact that NBA changed rules because teams had all these dummy cap figures added to allow for trading of contracts that could immediately be waived. But is it about guaranteeing current year, or future years? Because if traded before 7/1, it would be in next league year.

I could see them keep J Rich if Murray is traded in order to have a vet presence around the crop of young guards. But agree, they could use that if really trying to create space. But what are they even doing with that space? Wasting it on more DMcD’s would be insane vs. trying to accumulate assets by renting it out or signing a young player that they may have to slightly overpay.

Time is the Spurs’ friend. It’s not for other teams here who need to make decisions. They shouldn’t be forced into a deal unless it’s too good to pass up.

[KingKev]

Au contraire, lol. Klutch is a serious problem. Manipulative and dishonest.

You just explained this entire league. To be cliche… Learn life. Don’t hate the playa, hate the game.

[Chinook]

Yeah, I think hating on Klutch is almost away a lazy take. They made some mistakes, but they usually aren't from team interactions, and they're basically never from manipulating their players into doing things they don't want to do. Klutch does what their clients want them to. Davis wanted out of NOP, so Davis fired his agent and hired one who'd make it happen. They didn't force him to leave. If Klutch is asking the Spurs to trade Murray, it's because he wants to leave. Otherwise, he's in a great place to expand their brand for the next couple of years.

[Atl Spur]

Klutch is the lowest of hanging fruit……

[Mr. Body]

You just explained this entire league. To be cliche… Learn life. Don’t hate the playa, hate the game.

Lol, no I didn't. There's a way things work and there's Klutch. I get fanbois buying into the LeBron/ESPN nonsense, but real grown ups don't.

[TD 21]

This has probably been said, but . . .

- The Wizards (either Hachimura or maybe a choice of him and Avdija) are probably the unknow East team.

- If they're not going to get a premium pick, they at least need to hold firm on a mammoth amount (even though I'm not a fan of that route).

- All of the rumored interested teams would seemingly be set up to pick around 20ish in the near future, making their picks less valuable.

- This all tracks with what Windhorst said post White trade, there there's a split on how to proceed in the front office (obviously old vs new guard).

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Xqlz9as9U

[rjv]

it's really as if all the pre-draft rumors have been replaced by the murray trade rumors. usually with the spurs, when there is little noise, something happens and when there is a lot of noise, very little does. i'm going to defer to Occam's razor here and assume that nothing happens on this front. not for now, at least.

[JPB]

On another note, since I think someone mentioned trading up to the #1 pick in next year's draft with that barrel of picks spurs could get... No one is trading #1 pick next year, not for all the tea in China.

[DC23]

:lol even yahoo sports is using him as a source
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-rumors-spurs-asking-price-162600592.html

[exstatic]

Agreed, but not for a grab bag of non-lottery picks either through protections or through being from solidly playoff teams.

It’ll be a smaller grab bag, like 1 or maybe 2 similar range FRPs when we get closer to his FA period. I personally like more more than I like less.

He’s not a superstar, baseline. If someone wants to flip you 3-4 FRPs for a guy you drafted at 29, and developed the hell out of, you do it.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I think hating on Klutch is almost away a lazy take. They made some mistakes, but they usually aren't from team interactions, and they're basically never from manipulating their players into doing things they don't want to do. Klutch does what their clients want them to. Davis wanted out of NOP, so Davis fired his agent and hired one who'd make it happen. They didn't force him to leave. If Klutch is asking the Spurs to trade Murray, it's because he wants to leave. Otherwise, he's in a great place to expand their brand for the next couple of years.

If Klutch were some evil mastermind organization, the Lakers wouldn’t suck as badly as they do right now.

[offset formation]

If Klutch were some evil mastermind organization, the Lakers wouldn’t suck as badly as they do right now.

Hard to overcome world-class front office incompetence. I think Klutch isn't the evil agency many make them out to be but I absolutely think they played dirty on Brow going to LA given it's what his boy LeBron wanted / needed.

[Dex]

Hard to overcome world-class front office incompetence. I think Klutch isn't the evil agency many make them out to be but I absolutely think they played dirty on Brow going to LA given it's what his boy LeBron wanted / needed.

I also don't doubt the idea that LeBron wants to bring his boi Murray if he can....whether that is in LA or somewhere else. Therein lies the "nepotism" of Klutch, anything they do is based around the whims of James.

Also can't forget the Morris was under Klutch when he reneged on his commitment with the Spurs, and even HE cut ties with them after that backlash.

I agree that Klutch isn't like some Lex Luthor type influence...but still something Spurs have to consider with any dealings.

[duncan2k5]

Three things about a trade where you take back Gallinari and picks for Murray:

1.) You almost certainly improve the Spurs’ own pick - could go from the late lottery (or better) to early lottery. It stinks for a year, but much better future shots on goal

2.) You create at least $10 million in cap space with Gallo being cut for $5 million. That gives a LOT more flexibility to be a team to facilitate other moves in free agency and accumulate more assets. Just don’t become the Thunder.

Could go the other way too and sign a guy like Brunson outright. I don’t love paying him more than Murray, but if you get a bunch of assets on top of it? Why not?

3.) Open up playing time for Primo and Young, as well as the two rookies. See what you have.

Brunson is fools gold... Dude is ass

[Thomas82]

Yes, and 3) they've put a "once in a generation" grade on French Vic.

I'm with that!! Let's brick for Vic!!

[Maddog]

This has probably been said, but . . .

- The Wizards (either Hachimura or maybe a choice of him and Avdija) are probably the unknow East team.

- If they're not going to get a premium pick, they at least need to hold firm on a mammoth amount (even though I'm not a fan of that route).

- All of the rumored interested teams would seemingly be set up to pick around 20ish in the near future, making their picks less valuable.

- This all tracks with what Windhorst said post White trade, there there's a split on how to proceed in the front office (obviously old vs new guard).


He's really valuable as that finishing piece but not someone to build a tea around

[Thomas82]

Actually, that sounds like it could be what he wants. Pop started out bad and we got the number 1 pick to get Tim Duncan. Maybe he wants to end the same way and go out with getting the number 1 pick to get Victor Wembanyama.

That would truly be a full circle situation.

[CGD]

Heat apparently checked In too: https://heatnation.com/rumors/report-miami-heat-checked-in-on-dejounte-murray/amp/

[offset formation]

https://airalamo.com/posts/reporter-proposes-san-antonio-spurs-conspiracy-victor-wembanyama

[baseline bum]

It’ll be a smaller grab bag, like 1 or maybe 2 similar range FRPs when we get closer to his FA period. I personally like more more than I like less.

He’s not a superstar, baseline. If someone wants to flip you 3-4 FRPs for a guy you drafted at 29, and developed the hell out of, you do it.

That's ridiculous, what does Murray being drafted at 29 have to do with anything? You let the league redraft that draft today and it probably goes

1. Pascal Siakam
2. Jaylen Brown
3. Brandon Ingram
4. Dejounte Murray
5. Ben Simmons

It's like you're getting the #4 pick in the draft in his prime years without having to develop him and he's on a bargain contract for two more years. You don't trade that away for a grab bag of picks in the late teens and twenties, that's moronic.

No indication Murray wants to bolt.

[Budkin]

That's ridiculous, what does Murray being drafted at 29 have to do with anything? You let the league redraft that draft today and it probably goes

1. Pascal Siakam
2. Jaylen Brown
3. Brandon Ingram
4. Dejounte Murray
5. Ben Simmons

It's like you're getting the #4 pick in the draft in his prime years without having to develop him and he's on a bargain contract for two more years. You don't trade that away for a grab bag of picks in the late teens and twenties, that's moronic.

No indication Murray wants to bolt.

This tbh.

[T Park]

That's ridiculous, what does Murray being drafted at 29 have to do with anything? You let the league redraft that draft today and it probably goes

1. Pascal Siakam
2. Jaylen Brown
3. Brandon Ingram
4. Dejounte Murray
5. Ben Simmons

It's like you're getting the #4 pick in the draft in his prime years without having to develop him and he's on a bargain contract for two more years. You don't trade that away for a grab bag of picks in the late teens and twenties, that's moronic.

No indication Murray wants to bolt.


Bang on. Great post.

[JPB]

That's ridiculous, what does Murray being drafted at 29 have to do with anything? You let the league redraft that draft today and it probably goes

1. Pascal Siakam
2. Jaylen Brown
3. Brandon Ingram
4. Dejounte Murray
5. Ben Simmons

It's like you're getting the #4 pick in the draft in his prime years without having to develop him and he's on a bargain contract for two more years. You don't trade that away for a grab bag of picks in the late teens and twenties, that's moronic.

No indication Murray wants to bolt.

tbh.

[tbdog]

Try telling that to the fringe All-Stars. Everybody out there trying to grab their bag whether they deserve it or not...and the Spurs are especially susceptible being in a small-market.

I know DJ has been all about team and Spurs culture and what not...but IF he is still a Spur when extension time comes, we'll see if he walks the walk. Tim, Tony, Manu...all those guys took lesser deals to keep the team together and stay competitive.

Will Murray follow suit, or milk that cash cow for all it is worth?

Owners need to be smarter. But the market is, fringe allstars are max players. It's dividing the nba from the best. If you miss on developing on a fringe allstar at a max, you hurt your franchise for a few years.

[Dex]

Owners need to be smarter. But the market is, fringe allstars are max players. It's dividing the nba from the best. If you miss on developing on a fringe allstar at a max, you hurt your franchise for a few years.

For players, I guess that's a fair argument...and I don't blame them for trying to maximize their value. If one team isn't willing to give you max dollars but another is, then go get paid.

That said, I think "market value" is putting a lot of teams in really shitty situations. There are guys like Kyrie, Leonard, Westbrook, Harden, Simmons, etc...getting paid max (or near-max) value for either not playing, or outright tanking their teams.

If I'm a GM, I'm not paying max value for a guy who isn't a top-15 player in the league, but obviously some do and live with the consequences.

[poopbox]

The part about them maybe not wanting to pay Murray in two years is weird because every single good team in the nba is overpaying at least 1 player. To say you don't want to overpay someone is to say you never want to be a good team.

[poopbox]

For players, I guess that's a fair argument...and I don't blame them for trying to maximize their value. If one team isn't willing to give you max dollars but another is, then go get paid.

That said, I think "market value" is putting a lot of teams in really shitty situations. There are guys like Kyrie, Leonard, Westbrook, Harden, Simmons, etc...getting paid max (or near-max) value for either not playing, or outright tanking their teams.

If I'm a GM, I'm not paying max value for a guy who isn't a top-15 player in the league, but obviously some do and live with the consequences.

And what happens when the 15th best players want to play somewhere else and the 16th best player won't play for you cause you won't give him the max?

You going to spend that money on players who don't move the needle for you? And your fan base is going to be happy?

You just going to tank forever until you get a star that you will pay a max to? Well other teams can also pay him a max albeit one less year so whats stopping him from taking their money and not yours?

KD walked away from a 4 year max in OKC to sign a 1 year max in GS.

[Chinook]

That's ridiculous, what does Murray being drafted at 29 have to do with anything? You let the league redraft that draft today and it probably goes

1. Pascal Siakam
2. Jaylen Brown
3. Brandon Ingram
4. Dejounte Murray
5. Ben Simmons

It's like you're getting the #4 pick in the draft in his prime years without having to develop him and he's on a bargain contract for two more years. You don't trade that away for a grab bag of picks in the late teens and twenties, that's moronic.

No indication Murray wants to bolt.

I think you're touching on the core of the motivation to trade him. Literally this year is the first year you can make an argument that Murray would be draft over Simmons. If Ben comes back, he'll go right back to being drafted over Murray. He really was/is insanely good. Even with that, I think you can easily put Murray out of the top-10 of a redraft. I would say somewhere in the 6-10 range. I have Simmons clearly over him and guys like other Murray, FVV and Sabonis as in similar tiers. Of course, last year was finally where his production matched an average Simmons year, so if that is going to be Murray's average from now on, he'll climb the statistical ranks and before one of the top three. If you're betting on him to do that, then you keep him and invest to build around him. If you wouldn't be on that, you find someone who would and get assets from them. You can totally justify trading the seventh- or eight-best player in his class for multiple firsts. 2011 was a great draft, but the eighth-best player in that class by win-shares is Enes Freedom. If you sort it by minute, the eighth-best is IT. Neither one of those guys is or honest was every worth more than three lightly protected firsts.

[Dex]

And what happens when the 15th best players want to play somewhere else and the 16th best player won't play for you cause you won't give him the max?

You going to spend that money on players who don't move the needle for you? And your fan base is going to be happy?

You just going to tank forever until you get a star that you will pay a max to? Well other teams can also pay him a max albeit one less year so whats stopping him from taking their money and not yours?

KD walked away from a 4 year max in OKC to sign a 1 year max in GS.

Obviously the "top 15" thing is just an example, and there is no way to quantify it.

The point is....there are players that deserve the max, and players who don't. Period.

I'm sorry, but just because you made one All-Star team doesn't mean you outright deserve the max. The max should be for guys who can carry teams to the playoffs, and DJ hasn't shown the ability to do that.

If you're Kevin fucking Durant, you deserve the max.

If you are a crippled John Wall, or a headcase like Kyrie or Ben Simmons...no thanks. Let someone else hamstring their own franchise.

[exstatic]

I also don't doubt the idea that LeBron wants to bring his boi Murray if he can....whether that is in LA or somewhere else. Therein lies the "nepotism" of Klutch, anything they do is based around the whims of James.

Also can't forget the Morris was under Klutch when he reneged on his commitment with the Spurs, and even HE cut ties with them after that backlash.

I agree that Klutch isn't like some Lex Luthor type influence...but still something Spurs have to consider with any dealings.

WRONG. Klutch cut ties with Morris after that episode, and declined to represent him any longer.

[Dex]

WRONG. Klutch cut ties with Morris after that episode, and declined to represent him any longer.

Uh....these articles seem to disagree:

https://www.yahoo.com/video/marcus-morris-leave-rich-paul-klutch-sports-230249961.html

https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2019/11/06/morris-twins-sign-with-roc-nation-after-mutual-parting-from-klutch-sports/

https://m.facebook.com/theScore/photos/marcus-morris-nerlens-noel-are-reportedly-leaving-klutch-sports-/10167429392967037/

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-marcus-morris-fires-agent-rich-paul-20190714-ukiwxagbkvdbrayopyqgs6m2ye-story.html

https://www.celticslife.com/2019/07/marcus-morris-fires-rich-paul-as-agent.html

They can call it "mutual" all they want...but anybody who has gone through a "mutual" breakup knows that ain't always the case

[spurraider21]

surprisingly quiet day on the Murray front as far as actual new reporting

[Chinook]

Uh....these articles seem to disagree:

https://www.yahoo.com/video/marcus-morris-leave-rich-paul-klutch-sports-230249961.html

https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/2019/11/06/morris-twins-sign-with-roc-nation-after-mutual-parting-from-klutch-sports/

https://m.facebook.com/theScore/photos/marcus-morris-nerlens-noel-are-reportedly-leaving-klutch-sports-/10167429392967037/

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-marcus-morris-fires-agent-rich-paul-20190714-ukiwxagbkvdbrayopyqgs6m2ye-story.html

https://www.celticslife.com/2019/07/marcus-morris-fires-rich-paul-as-agent.html

They can call it "mutual" all they want...but anybody who has gone through a "mutual" breakup knows that ain't always the case

I think it's legit something both sides wanted. The issue isn't finding fault with Klutch -- they botched that situation. It's that the fault wasn't them steering Morris to a big market, which is what folks here seem to think is all they do. It's that they basically ignored Morris in free agency and took the first easy deal they could, and Morris was able to find a better deal relatively easily. So Morris wanted out because Klutch almost took money off his table, and Klutch wanted out because Morris went back on an agreement while they were representing them.

Believing Klutch is the mastermind behind all or most of these incidents is the part that's lazy. This is a league-wide trend that I think most people believe should come with some better guardrails. Klutch is just an agency that's willing to take backlash for their prime clients, which is why players sign with them. Their player friendly leanings are attracting bad actors; they aren't making them

[Desert Spur]

Prefer to step forward in building one of the best defensive units in the league. Adding Sochan was a great start, so why stop there? Murray + Sochan + Ayton would be a formidable Big Three on defense. On offense: Murray + Ayton + KJ would be one heck of Big Three. And you're on your way to the playoffs...

[Dex]

I think it's legit something both sides wanted. The issue isn't finding fault with Klutch -- they botched that situation. It's that the fault wasn't them steering Morris to a big market, which is what folks here seem to think is all they do. It's that they basically ignored Morris in free agency and took the first easy deal they could, and Morris was able to find a better deal relatively easily. So Morris wanted out because Klutch almost took money off his table, and Klutch wanted out because Morris went back on an agreement while they were representing them.

Believing Klutch is the mastermind behind all or most of these incidents is the part that's lazy. This is a league-wide trend that I think most people believe should come with some better guardrails. Klutch is just an agency that's willing to take backlash for their prime clients, which is why players sign with them. Their player friendly leanings are attracting bad actors; they aren't making them

Alright, that's fair...but I can also see why that gives the Spurs, in particular, a reason to be reluctant to work with Klutch going forward. And the fact that our two best players right now (Murray and Johnson) are rep'd by them is not great

[Eaglenole2002]

Jake Fischer on Dunc’d On said the most recent he has heard is that John Collins is back in the talks to head to SA if Dejounte goes to ATL

[Dejounte]

Jake Fischer on Dunc’d On said the most recent he has heard is that John Collins is back in the talks to head to SA if Dejounte goes to ATL


this guy has gullible folks at his fingertips :lmao :lmao

[spurraider21]

Jake Fischer on Dunc’d On said the most recent he has heard is that John Collins is back in the talks to head to SA if Dejounte goes to ATL
i saw collin reid's tweet too