2023 NBA DRAFT

[exstatic]

Guess we should get rid of everyone then…

Everyone without guaranteed money is definitely on the chopping block.

[Dex]

with the way they played I believe the spurs will bring them back (not to mention KBD who I also think could be brought back as well)

The average age on our team won't even be able to legally drink :lol

[Mr. Body]

The average age on our team won't even be able to legally drink :lol

Pop is going to be coaching a college team with a few grad transfers (Mamu, Bassey).

[Philthemage]

Pop is going to be coaching a college team with a few grad transfers (Mamu, Bassey).

If Miami can pull it off, we can do it even better

[mo7888]

Guess we should get rid of everyone then…

If we can replace them with better players on better deals then sure....nobody on this team at this moment is off limits....

[The Truth #6]

For the marginal players it may come down to positional fit more than talent. I like Champagnie and think he has a solid roll player future, more than Barlowe, but with a lot of guards already here, he could lose out, especially if we draft a guard at 33. We’ll see.

[Mr. Body]

For the marginal players it may come down to positional fit more than talent. I like Champagnie and think he has a solid roll player future, more than Barlowe, but with a lot of guards already here, he could lose out, especially if we draft a guard at 33. We’ll see.

Champagnie is a wing. Of the new guys he may actually be the safest, almost, because other than Keldon we don't have any wings who can shoot.

[spurraider21]

Spurs really are on a roster crunch. We have like two open spots maybe?

Collins/Mamu
Wemby/Sochan/Dom
KJ/Doug/Julian
Dev/Malaki
Tre/graham/Wesley

Do we think the spurs could simply sell #33 and use 44 on a two way? I’d be bummed with that but our roster is pretty much full
Tre/Mamu/Champagnie/Dom are not locks. i'd like Mamu back. and ideally could get Champagnie on a 2-way.

then you factor in doug/graham both expiring (graham is de facto expiring unless he plays his ass off)

[The Truth #6]

Champagnie is a wing. Of the new guys he may actually be the safest, almost, because other than Keldon we don't have any wings who can shoot.

I definitely would like to see him get a further chance. I think he could play with VW.

[Degoat]

Amari Bailey posted on his Instagram story Black and silver hearts with a pic of the spurs championship banners in the practice facility.

[Mr. Body]

I definitely would like to see him get a further chance. I think he could play with VW.

Given the need for shooting I think Champagnie will get more than a chance.

[scott]

Spurs really are on a roster crunch. We have like two open spots maybe?

Collins/Mamu
Wemby/Sochan/Dom
KJ/Doug/Julian
Dev/Malaki
Tre/graham/Wesley

Do we think the spurs could simply sell #33 and use 44 on a two way? I’d be bummed with that but our roster is pretty much full

Mamu, Dom, Julian, Tre are free agents. The Spurs roster currently looks like this:

PG: Graham, Blake
SG: Dev, Bran
SF: Keldon, Doug
PF: Sochan
C: Collins, Bassey, Birch

So the roster currently stands at 10.

Assume we release/injury settle Birch, resign Tre, bring back Mamu, Julian and Dom and of course draft Wemby - then we are at 14 players. My guess is that at least 1 of Julian or Dom will be a 2-way.

[mo7888]

Mamu, Dom, Julian, Tre are free agents. The Spurs roster currently looks like this:

PG: Graham, Blake
SG: Dev, Bran
SF: Keldon, Doug
PF: Sochan
C: Collins, Bassey, Birch

So the roster currently stands at 10.

Assume we release/injury settle Birch, resign Tre, bring back Mamu, Julian and Dom and of course draft Wemby - then we are at 14 players. My guess is that at least 1 of Julian or Dom will be a 2-way.

I hope Dom is the 2way and Julian and Mamu get contracts similar to Bassey.

[Degoat]

Interesting Bobi Kilintman withdrew from the draft

[JPB]

If Miami can pull it off, we can do it even better

They won't do that every year, that was a one time thing as a 8th seed and they will lose the finals anyway.

[Philthemage]

They won't do that every year, that was a one time thing as a 8th seed and they will lose the finals anyway.

I mean with finding quality way under the radar role players

[Mr. Body]

Interesting Bobi Kilintman withdrew from the draft

Sucked at Wake Forest, withdrew from the combine to create an air of mystery, gained no traction, left.

[Mr. Body]

Mark Stein, who IMO is iffy, reporting that Utah is big on Coulibaly at 9 and wants Keyonte George before their 16 pick. Says they want to 'trade up' to get George, suggesting one of the Toronto-OKC range of teams want him. Not sure about this.

[Mr. Body]

Probably going to be some craziness just before or during the draft for spots 2 and 3 and then things shaking out from there.

[BatManu20]

1668707532704022529

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1668720452573732864

[duncan2150]

Adam Zagoria: Iowa State big man Osun Osunniyi has a workout with the Atlanta Hawks Wednesday and is coming off the Bulls, Spurs, Celtics and Hornets, (https://hoopshype.com/social/) per league source @CycloneMBB

[JPB]

I mean with finding quality way under the radar role players

You mean what spurs have been doing for 2 decades?

[JPB]

https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1668720452573732864

How dare they put Black behind 7 potentially more talented prospects?

[Philthemage]

You mean what spurs have been doing for 2 decades?

Exactly

[T Park]

Mark Stein, who IMO is iffy, reporting that Utah is big on Coulibaly at 9 and wants Keyonte George before their 16 pick. Says they want to 'trade up' to get George, suggesting one of the Toronto-OKC range of teams want him. Not sure about this.

can 100% see Coulibaly going top 10. its been a while. maybe Patrick Williams of the Bulls? Since weve seen a stock shoot up this quick.

Im not sure how many of the teams "Wanting out" want veterans. or they just want to punt the can down the road.

100% the Spurs should be in on the punt the can guys. Charlotte Bulls Celtics swap etc etc should be on the table.

theres a legit chance to get great young talent, improve the team, SIGN guys to improve the team all in one off season.

theres a chance if this front office can thread the needle, they can go from 3rd worst, to top 7 team in the west.

[Mr. Body]

can 100% see Coulibaly going top 10. its been a while. maybe Patrick Williams of the Bulls? Since weve seen a stock shoot up this quick.

Im not sure how many of the teams "Wanting out" want veterans. or they just want to punt the can down the road.

100% the Spurs should be in on the punt the can guys. Charlotte Bulls Celtics swap etc etc should be on the table.

theres a legit chance to get great young talent, improve the team, SIGN guys to improve the team all in one off season.

theres a chance if this front office can thread the needle, they can go from 3rd worst, to top 7 team in the west.

Next year will be wild. Other than Denver the playoff picture in the west is wide open. I'm not sure any other team is an absolute lock.

[BatManu20]

One week til the Draft boys. Can’t get here soon enough.

1669407422501273624

[BatManu20]

Woj announcing he won’t be tipping picks this years. I bet Shams still does though lol.

1669463674686152704

[Mugen]

Good. I enjoy the draft and hate getting the picks spoiled tbh :lol

[Seventyniner]

Woj tired of being scooped by Shams Charania.

[Mr. Body]

Woj not about that life anymore.

[Degoat]

I love the Spoilers tbh lol

[CGD]

Basically ESPN paid him off so they can keep the tv programming interesting. I felt bad for Bilas up there giving pick analysis that everyone knew was BS

[Drom John]

Pelton's final stats, of those in top 30 ESPN consensus (scouts then stats).
Stats are Pelton's projection for next five years in NBA.
Pelton hasn't figured out Overtime Elite, so no twins.
This list has Pelton's top 22. Missing in top 33 are 23, 24, 29, 31
Best arguments for Pelton over scouts: Jokic, Kawhi, Butler, Van Vleet, Doncic, Haliburton.
Best arguments for scouts over Pelton: Bender, Primo as 12th best (though Pelton #1 Sengun was still on the board).
The number after the name is the consensus ranking.


1) Whitmore 3
2) Podziemski 9
3) Wallace 6
4) Wembayama 1
1. Victor Wembanyama
Metropolitans 92
F/C
Top 100: No. 1
Stats: No. 4

Consensus: 3.9 WARP

Although the NCAA, G League and OTE prospects have been preparing for the draft for months, Wembanyama played his last game for Metropolitans 92 on Thursday as they lost the series, 3-0, to AS Monaco in the French Pro A league finals.

Wembanyama's stats-only projection is very good -- seventh best among No. 1 picks since 2006 -- but doesn't quite match the "best prospect since LeBron" hype.


That's partially a product of the relatively weak level of competition in France compared to the top European leagues. Additionally, Wembanyama hasn't been highly efficient in his high-volume role, making 56% of his 2-pointers and 28% of his 3s this season. The idea that Wembanyama will be an All-Star-level player on offense as a rookie seems wildly optimistic.

I suspect we'll regard this period as Wembanyama exploring the enormous studio space of his unprecedented skill set for his size. And it's not like he has hurt his team in the process. Metropolitans 92 beating playoff opponents with far more accomplished veterans (including Tony Parker's Asvel club in the semifinals, led by former EuroLeague MVP Nando de Colo) has been a tremendous accomplishment.
5) Miller, B 2
6) Whitehead 11
7) Sensabaugh 10
8) Hendricks 4
9) Dick 5
10) Lively 7
11) George 12
12) Howard 15
13) Miller, L 16
14) Walker 8
15) Jones 19
16) Hawkins 17
17) Walsh 22
18) Black 14
19) Smith, N 18
20) Sasser 24
21) Smith, T 25
22) Slawson 29
...
25) Murray 21
26T) Clowney 20
26T) Clark 30
28) Jaquez 26
...
30) Phillips 28
...
32) Bufkin 23
33) Henderson, S 13
...
49) Couliaby 27

[Degoat]

Are we saying Pelton has Podz over wemby? Lol

[rjv]

going back to 2006 for comparisons seems a bit odd considering the game has changed so much since then. and Pelton does know that nando was out for the semi-finals, right?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

going back to 2006 for comparisons seems a bit odd considering the game has changed so much since then. and Pelton does know that nando was out for the semi-finals, right?

I’m convinced most of the uber stat geeks don’t actually watch basketball at all. They throw numbers in their self created formulas and then try to make sense of whatever results pop up.

[Maddog]

Going to just have to wait until Silver announces who the Spurs will pick with the first pick.
We need a poll on who every thinks they'll take.

[exstatic]

I’m convinced most of the uber stat geeks don’t actually watch basketball at all. They throw numbers in their self created formulas and then try to make sense of whatever results pop up.

There's a saying in the coding world: Models are useful. models are wrong. You're never going to hit 100% on anything. Even his theory of FT% -> 3G% which I subscribe to isn't perfect, probably only applying to catch and shoot 3s. Shooting off the bounce, whether mid range or long range, is a whole different animal.

[BatManu20]

1668715715208134657

[Obstructed_View]

Basically ESPN paid him off so they can keep the tv programming interesting. I felt bad for Bilas up there giving pick analysis that everyone knew was BS
Bilas flies by the seat of his pants live and does an amazing job. He called Malaki Branham for the Spurs several picks ahead.

[Obstructed_View]

1668715715208134657

Someone may have a long night.

[Mugen]

Reports of the Pacers making the 7th pick available for a starting wing....

That's Keldon + First Rounders territory in case Amen falls tbh. If the Rockets pass on him, I think there's a good chance he's there if the Spurs want to make the move...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10079557-nba-rumors-beal-granted-permission-to-speak-with-teams-top-prospect-to-meet-with-mj

[Degoat]

Reports of the Pacers making the 7th pick available for a starting wing....

That's Keldon + First Rounders territory in case Amen falls tbh. If the Rockets pass on him, I think there's a good chance he's there if the Spurs want to make the move...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10079557-nba-rumors-beal-granted-permission-to-speak-with-teams-top-prospect-to-meet-with-mj

That would be so crazy (in a good way) like holy shit wemby and a Thompson twin GD!

[Mr. Body]

I think Pacers will want OG Anunoby.

[Mr. Body]

That would be so crazy (in a good way) like holy shit wemby and a Thompson twin GD!

Ausar pulled out of a Pacers workout yesterday. May be going sixth. That may be the reason why they put the pick on the market.

[BatManu20]

I’m not quite as high on Amen as most. Not that I don’t like him as a prospect, I actually do, but that hitch in his jumper right now is disgusting tbh (25% from 3 this season is woof), and it’s gonna take some work to correct that. But more importantly, I think he’s a top-5 lock and it would take a king’s ransom to get him.

I also thought he’d put up slightly better numbers playing against shittier competition last year, against players 1-2 years younger than him. Spurs do seem high on him though, which is not surprising given his upside and high character. But I really don’t think Keldon is on the market tbh. I’d be really surprised if they traded him. But like I said, I think Amen is a top-5 lock based on his size and athleticism alone, likely to Houston, so I think it’s moot. Black is a guy who might still be available at 7 though.

[Mugen]

I think Pacers will want OG Anunoby.

If Masai pulls the trigger on trading OG, I think they'll aim higher than 7. OG, 13 and additional draft capital probably gets you the 3rd pick from the Blazers for example.


Ausar pulled out of a Pacers workout yesterday. May be going sixth. That may be the reason why they put the pick on the market.

Yeah Ausar is not making it past 6/Orlando. I think there's a good chance he goes to Detroit at 5 tbh.

I fully expect the Rockets to take Amen but if they take Cam or trade away that pick, then it gets really interesting if you're the Spurs tbh. Hell if the FO loves one of the PG prospects, trading with Indy still makes sense because i think WAS/UTAH both go point guard the picks after.

[Mugen]

I’m not quite as high in Amen as most. Not that I don’t like him, I actually do, but that hitch in his jumper right now is disgusting tbh, and it’s gonna take some work to correct that. I also thought he’d put up slightly better numbers playing against shittier competition last year playing against players 1-2 years younger than him. Spurs do seem high on him though, which is not surprising given his upside and high character. But I really don’t think Keldon is on the market tbh. I’d be really surprised if they traded him. I think Amen is a top-5 lock based on his size and athleticism alone, likely to Houston, so I think it’s moot. Black is a guy who might still be available at 7 though.

I'm pretty damn high on Amen and I think he'd be worth trading Keldon if he fell. His shot is broken but is it any more broken than Sochan's coming out of Baylor? His out of this world athleticism, playmaking, creative finishing, and defensive potential makes me think his floor is a lot higher than he's getting credit for tbh. If he becomes an okay shooter then we're looking at a top 15 player in the league in 5 years IMO...

[BatManu20]

I'm pretty damn high on Amen and I think he'd be worth trading Keldon if he fell. His shot is broken but is it any more broken than Sochan's coming out of Baylor? His out of this world athleticism, playmaking, creative finishing, and defensive potential makes me think his floor is a lot higher than he's getting credit for tbh. If he becomes an okay shooter then we're looking at a top 15 player in the league in 5 years IMO...

Yea his potential is nuts for sure. His physical gifts are special. Best athlete in the draft at a position of need with a really high ceiling, so if we somehow landed him, I wouldn’t be complaining (especially keeping him away from Houston). I just don’t think the Spurs wanna trade Keldon right now. But who knows, we’ll see what happens. I think Amen is a lock to Houston at #4 and the Spurs won’t have to worry about making that decision anyways tbh.

[BatManu20]

1669439574609920002

[BatManu20]

He gone.

1669698885894254592

1669737433989107723

[BatManu20]

If the Pelicans were willing to trade Zion straight up for the 2nd overall pick, that’s a risk Charlotte would have to seriously consider taking tbh. Doubt it happens, but a healthy* Zion plus LaMelo would be really fun to watch, and would give them 2 cornerstone franchise players. And the Scoot + Melo backcourt doesn’t feel like a great fit. Both are ball-dominant PG’s and neither thrive off-ball. Just a weird fit tbh.

But relying on Zion to stay healthy is just a horrible gamble at the end of the day. Dude seems lazy with a shitty work ethic. He can’t stop eating and fucking C-list porn stars. And he’s about to be due big money next year. That’s why it’s unlikely to happen imo.

[Ariel]

Reports of the Pacers making the 7th pick available for a starting wing....

That's Keldon + First Rounders territory in case Amen falls tbh. If the Rockets pass on him, I think there's a good chance he's there if the Spurs want to make the move...
I think Pacers will want OG Anunoby.
If Masai pulls the trigger on trading OG, I think they'll aim higher than 7. OG, 13 and additional draft capital probably gets you the 3rd pick from the Blazers for example.
Wow, most top 10 picks are available (2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10), that should drive their price down somewhat. As for OG Anunoby, he's an expiring contract (technically he's got one more player option year but it's a lock he'll decline, so...) and will be looking for a big payday. I think that may be a problem for Indiana, being a small market with limited options in free agency, and they could actually value Keldon's youth, offensive upside and contract. All in all, I think the Spurs could very well surprise us and land another top 10 pick if they really want it.

[baseline bum]

Damn, on The Ringer Woj said he's not going to be announcing the picks on Twitter anymore, so we don't get to see who the Spurs pick until after the commercial.

[Ariel]

Damn, on The Ringer Woj said he's not going to be announcing the picks on Twitter anymore, so we don't get to see who the Spurs pick until after the commercial.
That race to call the pick a few minutes in advance via twitter was garbage anyway, didn't provide any value to the transmission, actually it detracted from it. Glad he won't be doing it, but Shams will surely do it regardless for anyone who's interested in it. I prefer not to know until it's called.

[rjv]

I'm far more interested in what Woj will know about pending trades on draft night anyway.

[TD 21]

If Masai pulls the trigger on trading OG, I think they'll aim higher than 7. OG, 13 and additional draft capital probably gets you the 3rd pick from the Blazers for example.

:lmao This is what the Scumbag "trade" and Craptors media fanboy propaganda machine have done to the masses.

There's no precedent for a role player (an injury prone one on an expiring contract, at that) being traded for a 3rd pick that's regarded as even better value than a typical 3rd pick. The Trail Blazers are star hunting.

If the Pacers want him so badly and don't want to wait a year (he went to school in Indiana and supposedly wants to go back), 7, Hield and a lesser pick should suffice.

[Ariel]

:lmao This is what the Scumbag "trade" and Craptors media fanboy propaganda machine have done to the masses.

There's no precedent for a role player (an injury prone one on an expiring contract, at that) being traded for a 3rd pick that's regarded as even better value than a typical 3rd pick. The Trail Blazers are star hunting.

If the Pacers want him so badly and don't want to wait a year (he went to school in Indiana and supposedly wants to go back), 7, Hield and a lesser pick should suffice.
Masai has an eye for talent, but Toronto's doom has been their overvalued perception of their players, they should have traded most of them (Van Vleet, Gary Trent Jr, OG, maybe Siakam as well) at least a year ago and they'd be in a much better position right now.

[jesterbobman]

Are we saying Pelton has Podz over wemby? Lol

The model has Podz over Wemby. Pelton's rankings then merge a stats model with the top 100 to get his rankings, has Wemby #1 and Podz #9.

All models are going to be wrong - Hard to adjust for changing competition levels in a year, or play styles, or knowing whether a players 3pt shooting is accurate or a rough / bumper year (i.e., How would you judge Keldon's 3pt shooting from 2021/22 vs 22/23). Also, models know outcomes - sometimes a player wins with craft (Podz), sometimes tools (Whitmore). Scouts can judge how a player got to outcomes, guessing that tools are locked in place, and feel is a key component, but if your tools are average you probably have a ceiling.

The scouting ranks being added in kind of adjust for that.

[TD 21]

Masai has an eye for talent, but Toronto's doom has been their overvalued perception of their players, they should have traded most of them (Van Vleet, Gary Trent Jr, OG, maybe Siakam as well) at least a year ago and they'd be in a much better position right now.

All media narrative that conveniently went into effect post Scumbag "trade".

He "didn't see it" with Lowry and traded him to the Knicks, only to have Dolan block the agreed to trade because of the Bargnani disaster. He lucked into Anunoby inexplicably falling to 23 because of a torn ACL and Van Cheat preferring to be undrafted than picked in the 2nd round, as well as him and Siakam becoming the players they've become. Don't tell me for a second any executive predicts things like that.

Since their luck has turned (other than the league gifting them overrated Barnes), he's gotten exposed the same way all the others do.

[RC_Drunkford]

draft night will be crazy. We'll see a lot of big trades that night

[DPG21920]

Is anyone going to the draft?

[EricB]

We were supposed to get a bunch of trades last year and nothing panned out. We’ll see.

[Degoat]

We were supposed to get a bunch of trades last year and nothing panned out. We’ll see.

We go thru this every year, eventually the rumors will be true right? Lol also nobody and I mean nobody expected the spurs to use all 3 first round picks and they did last draft

[Mr. Body]

Sports media drums up clicks and attention by talking about trades. If there is a year with some trades, this is it.

[EricB]

We go thru this every year, eventually the rumors will be true right? Lol also nobody and I mean nobody expected the spurs to use all 3 first round picks and they did last draft


I thought they would simply cause if the rebuild, and they’d need young bodies.

They have a crap load of picks this year and should trade into the lottery area. There’s no excuse not to go for a guy like Bufkin.

[Mr. Body]

A year ago we were wondering if the Spurs gave a promise to Caleb Houstan.

[CGD]

A year ago we were wondering if the Spurs gave a promise to Caleb Houstan.

Lol— important perspective

[Ariel]

A year ago we were wondering if the Spurs gave a promise to Caleb Houstan.
and some reports indicated Mark Williams could be our pick at no. 9, people were clamoring for Lavine and arguing against the tank for the entertainment value of the play in, all while eagerly waiting for the much anticipated growth spurt from the "future face of the franchise".

[scott]

and some reports indicated Mark Williams could be our pick at no. 9, people were clamoring for Lavine and arguing against the tank for the entertainment value of the play in, all while eagerly waiting for the much anticipated growth spurt from the "future face of the franchise".

Just to throw some wood on the fire… if Lavine could stay healthy, I think he’d be a great second star with Wemby.

[objective]

A year ago we were wondering if the Spurs gave a promise to Caleb Houstan.

I remember Wright's apple watch showing a text from Ousmanne Dieng's agent being a big deal

[JPB]

draft night will be crazy. We'll see a lot of big trades that night

Not necessarily. Lot of noise and teasing with teams trying to test the market but utimately there probalby won't be that many moves since it's hard to find deals in draft days where both parts feel they're having their lunch. Plus the risk of being that team who passed on a future big star... it's evey year like that.

If I'm CHA by the way, I stay as far away as Zion as I can... Could also be NO just putting some pressure on Zion with all that inside (no relationship with the organizations and his teammates)...

[exstatic]

Not necessarily. Lot of noise and teasing with teams trying to test the market but utimately there probalby won't be that many moves since it's hard to find deals in draft days where both parts feel they're having their lunch. Plus the risk of being that team who passed on a future big star... it's evey year like that.

If I'm CHA by the way, I stay as far away as Zion as I can... Could also be NO just putting some pressure on Zion with all that inside (no relationship with the organizations and his teammates)...

The one plus is that he’s missed enough weight goals so that his last year is now non guaranteed. That’s $44M CHA will not be on the hook for. If he continues down this path, the next year that becomes unguaranteed is $41M.

[Uriel]

Are there any recent examples of reported promises that actually turned out to be true?

[Ariel]

Just to throw some wood on the fire… if Lavine could stay healthy, I think he’d be a great second star with Wemby.
I don't think Lavine is a second star in a winning team, not at a max contract under the new CBA, which I don't think will age well given he's had multiple knee surgeries and misses about a quarter of his games. The cost of opportunity is too high, I'd rather use that salary slot on another (2 way) star, or split it among several players.

[JPB]

1669439574609920002

Well, if "The Monty Show" sauces say so, I'm sure his 6K followers will appreciate.

My own sauces tell me he's yet another impostor, social media wannabe...

Oh, and how nice of Utah to be willing to give up a FRP to get Scoot and Amen...

[Drom John]

Pelton's picks for Spurs

2007 Nick Fazekas
2008 Mario Chalmers
2009 DeJuan Blair (overall Pelton #1)
2010 Hassan Whiteside
2011 Kawhi Leonard | | Shelvin Mack
2012 Marcus Denmon
2013 Jeff Withey
2014 Nikola Jokic (Pelton #4)
2015 R.J. Hunter
2016 Fred Van Vleet (Pelton #3)
2017 Monte Morris
2018 Dzana Musa
2019 Dedric Lawson | Bol Bol
2020 Tyrese Haliburton (Pelton #3)
2021 Alperen Sengun (Pelton #1)
2022 Walker Kessler (Pelton #2) | Patrick Baldwin, Jr. | Jacob Gilyard

[Obstructed_View]

Oh, and how nice of Utah to be willing to give up a FRP to get Scoot and Amen...

I thought exactly the same thing. They must mean either or and not both. So they'd give up a first to go from 9 to 4. Houston might trade down for one first. I don't think a single future first rounder will get you from 9 to 2.

[Drom John]

Pelton's 5 year projection compared to FiveThirtyEight 2023 Rookie VORP
These were the top 30 ESPN consensus scout/stat picks. I am too cheap to discover the Pelton picks for 20, 22-25, 27-30.

1) Chet Holmgren DNP
2) Walker Kessler #1 dominant best rookie
3) AJ Griffin #4
4) Keegan Murray #3
5) Tari Eason #2
6) Zach Edey DNP late withdrawal from draft
7) Dyson Daniels #5
8) Jabari Smith #82 (not nearly as good when not playing next to Kessler)
9) Jeremy Sochan #11T
10) Benedict Mathurin #16T
11) Jalen Duren #10
12) Patrick Baldwin Jr. #59T
13) Jacob Gilyard #45T tied with Julian Champagnie
14) Hyungjung Lee DNP undrafted played G-League
15) Kennedy Chandler #66T
16) Christian Braun #8
17) Jabari Walker #79 (best rookie named Jabari)
18) Trevor Keels #45T also tied with Julian Champagnie
19) Marcus Bagley DNP late withdrawal from draft
21) Keon Ellis #34T
26) Blake Wesley #84 second worst rookie in league, second worst rookie for Spurs, worst per minute.
39) Jaden Ivey #83
41) Kendall Brown #23T tied with Dominick Barlow
50) TyTy Washington Jr. #74T
51) Paolo Banchero #63T
53) Mark Williams #11T with Sochan
54) Malaki Branham #85 worst rookie in the league
61) EJ Liddell DNP injured 2-way Pelican
70) Ochai Agbaji #45T with Julian Champagnie
71) Johnny Davis #74T

[Drom John]

Pelton's picks for Spurs compared to Spurs picks by B-R VORP first five years in NBA

2007 Nick Fazekas (DNP) instead of Tiago Splitter (5.4), + 5.4 for Spurs, +5.4 for Spurs cumulative.
2008 Mario Chalmers (4.2) instead of George Hill (8.2), + 4.0 for Spurs, +9.4 for Spurs cumulative.
2009 DeJuan Blair, +9.4 for Spurs cumulative.
2010 Hassan Whiteside (6.3), instead of James Anderson (-0.8), +7.1 for Pelton, +2.3 for Spurs cumulative.
2011 Kawhi Leonard | Shelvin Mack (0.1) instead of Cory Joseph (2.3), +2.2 for Spurs, +4.5 for Spurs cumulative.
2012 No FRP for Spurs.
2013 Jeff Withey (1.3) instead of Livio Jean-Charles (DNP), +1.3 for Pelton, +3.2 for Spurs cumulative.
2014 Nikola Jokic (25.2) instead of Kyle Anderson (4.5), +20.7 for Pelton, +17.5 for Pelton cumulative.
2015 R.J. Hunter (0.0) instead of Nikola Milutinove (DNP), wash, +17.5 for Pelton cumulative.
2016 Fred Van Vleet (6.3) instead of Dejounte Murray (7.9), +1.6 for Spurs, +15.9 for Pelton cumulative.
2017 Monte Morris (4.2) instead of Derrick White (5.3), +1.1 for Spurs, +14.8 for Pelton cumulative.
2018 Dzana Musa (-0.4), instead of Lonnie Walker IV (-1.1), +0.7 for Pelton, +15.5 for Pelton cumulative.
2019 Dedric Lawson (DNP) instead of Luka Samanic (-0.3) | Bol Bol (0.3) instead of Keldon Johnson (1.4), +0.8 for Spurs, +14.7 for Pelton cumulative.
2020 Tyrese Haliburton (9.0) instead of Devin Vassell (1.6), +7.4 for Pelton, +22.1 for Pelton cumulative.
2021 Alperen Sengun (2.3) instead of Joshua Primo (-0.8), +3.1 for Pelton, +25.2 for Pelton cumulative.
2022 Walker Kessler (2.1) instead of Jeremy Sochan (-0.7) | Patrick Baldwin, Jr. (0.0) instead of Malaki Branham (-1.3) | Jacob Gilyard (0.0) instead of Blake Wesley (-1.3), +5.4 for Pelton, +30.6 for Pelton cumulative.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Pelton's picks for Spurs compared to Spurs picks by B-R VORP first five years in NBA

2007 Nick Fazekas (DNP) instead of Tiago Splitter (5.4), + 5.4 for Spurs, +5.4 for Spurs cumulative.
2008 Mario Chalmers (4.2) instead of George Hill (8.2), + 4.0 for Spurs, +9.4 for Spurs cumulative.
2009 DeJuan Blair, +9.4 for Spurs cumulative.
2010 Hassan Whiteside (6.3), instead of James Anderson (-0.8), +7.1 for Pelton, +2.3 for Spurs cumulative.
2011 Kawhi Leonard | Shelvin Mack (0.1) instead of Cory Joseph (2.3), +2.2 for Spurs, +4.5 for Spurs cumulative.
2012 No FRP for Spurs.
2013 Jeff Withey (1.3) instead of Livio Jean-Charles (DNP), +1.3 for Pelton, +3.2 for Spurs cumulative.
2014 Nikola Jokic (25.2) instead of Kyle Anderson (4.5), +20.7 for Pelton, +17.5 for Pelton cumulative.
2015 R.J. Hunter (0.0) instead of Nikola Milutinove (DNP), wash, +17.5 for Pelton cumulative.
2016 Fred Van Vleet (6.3) instead of Dejounte Murray (7.9), +1.6 for Spurs, +15.9 for Pelton cumulative.
2017 Monte Morris (4.2) instead of Derrick White (5.3), +1.1 for Spurs, +14.8 for Pelton cumulative.
2018 Dzana Musa (-0.4), instead of Lonnie Walker IV (-1.1), +0.7 for Pelton, +15.5 for Pelton cumulative.
2019 Dedric Lawson (DNP) instead of Luka Samanic (-0.3) | Bol Bol (0.3) instead of Keldon Johnson (1.4), +0.8 for Spurs, +14.7 for Pelton cumulative.
2020 Tyrese Haliburton (9.0) instead of Devin Vassell (1.6), +7.4 for Pelton, +22.1 for Pelton cumulative.
2021 Alperen Sengun (2.3) instead of Joshua Primo (-0.8), +3.1 for Pelton, +25.2 for Pelton cumulative.
2022 Walker Kessler (2.1) instead of Jeremy Sochan (-0.7) | Patrick Baldwin, Jr. (0.0) instead of Malaki Branham (-1.3) | Jacob Gilyard (0.0) instead of Blake Wesley (-1.3), +5.4 for Pelton, +30.6 for Pelton cumulative.

Many of the picks that you compare the Spurs' pick with.. barely played any minutes. Patrick Baldwin or Jacob Gilyard for e.g. It makes zero sense to list these things without context - minutes played etc.

[Arcadian]

You guys, I'm starting to get the jitters. What if this turns out to be a Bowie/Jordan (or Oden/Durant) situation where Victor gets injured into obscurity and Scoot Henderson is the greatest guard of his generation?

:lol jk...just wanted to throw that out into the universe so it doesn't happen.

[exstatic]

You guys, I'm starting to get the jitters. What if this turns out to be a Bowie/Jordan (or Oden/Durant) situation where Victor gets injured into obscurity and Scoot Henderson is the greatest guard of his generation?

:lol jk...just wanted to throw that out into the universe so it doesn't happen.

Scoot won’t. Miller might be something on the right team.

[baseline bum]

You guys, I'm starting to get the jitters. What if this turns out to be a Bowie/Jordan (or Oden/Durant) situation where Victor gets injured into obscurity and Scoot Henderson is the greatest guard of his generation?

:lol jk...just wanted to throw that out into the universe so it doesn't happen.

And that's why you never draft for position with a pick that high. Imagine if the Lakers pulled a Portland and said I don't want to draft Magic because we already have Norm Nixon. Let's get David Greenwood instead.

[SpursFan86]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10079067-2023-nba-draft-intel-the-ongoing-mystery-at-no-2-latest-rocketsharden-buzz

Latest draft buzz. One thing noted is that it sounds like Houston is unlikely to keep that pick at 20…wonder if they’d be a good potential trade partner if one of the guys we’re high on ends up falling into that range. Think most of the popular first round candidates (Wallace, JHS, Bufkin, Coulibaly) are unlikely to be there but crazier things have happened.

[Seventyniner]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10079067-2023-nba-draft-intel-the-ongoing-mystery-at-no-2-latest-rocketsharden-buzz

Latest draft buzz. One thing noted is that it sounds like Houston is unlikely to keep that pick at 20…wonder if they’d be a good potential trade partner if one of the guys we’re high on ends up falling into that range. Think most of the popular first round candidates (Wallace, JHS, Bufkin, Coulibaly) are unlikely to be there but crazier things have happened.

Good find. The Rockets might be willing to take the CHA pick plus #33. Maybe they would take two other future seconds (instead of #33) to defray the risk of the CHA pick never conveying.

[rjv]

just curious as to whether or not houston would have any interest in helping out the spurs.

[mo7888]

just curious as to whether or not houston would have any interest in helping out the spurs.

Nope.... and I'm not sure if they're intelligent enough to help out themselves..

[SpursFan86]

I think people overestimate the whole “X team won’t want to help us out” stuff. If a team thinks a trade is beneficial to them, they’ll likely do it IMO. Houston just traded with Dallas last year. I can maybe buy that teams are wary with trading with us if they feel like we always “win”, but even that’s probably overstated. GMs have egos and aren’t going around thinking they’ll get outsmarted by SA just because someone else had it happen to them.

On a side note, interesting Vegas lines here: https://twitter.com/noceilingsnba/status/1670873664131325952?s=46&t=7J7PSnY8RJS8_UemWCmgcA

O/U for Wallace/Bufkin/Coulibaly all a bit lower than I would’ve expected. If you’re of the mindset that Vegas has a great pulse on these things, then means it’s likely all of these guys are gone by the 16-20 range.

[spurraider21]

1670922360612896774

cant blame him. i also have questions about keldon's long term viability as a starter, but he's a 23 year old player who should still be getting better, on a pretty good contract that will only get better. no urgency to move him now unless we got a stupid good offer

also means targeting a top 10 guy like black is basically not happening. have to hope the other PGs like bufkin/wallace/hood schifino slide a bit, such that at least one of them makes it past the lottery

[DPG21920]

1670922360612896774

cant blame him. i also have questions about keldon's long term viability as a starter, but he's a 23 year old player who should still be getting better, on a pretty good contract that will only get better. no urgency to move him now unless we got a stupid good offer

also means targeting a top 10 guy like black is basically not happening. have to hope the other PGs like bufkin/wallace/hood schifino slide a bit, such that at least one of them makes it past the lottery

I don’t agree with the last part…Spurs have so many picks. Getting pick 8-11 seems doable if SA is willing to part with 2-3 future firsts IMVHO

[spurraider21]

I don’t agree with the last part…Spurs have so many picks. Getting pick 8-11 seems doable if SA is willing to part with 2-3 future firsts IMVHO
i mean yeah, in addition to our own, we have 2 unprotected and 3 protected first rounders. we obviously can make all kinds of plays. i just dont see the spurs moving 3 firsts just go get a a high end role player guy like anthony black or jerace walker.

[Mr. Body]

I don’t agree with the last part…Spurs have so many picks. Getting pick 8-11 seems doable if SA is willing to part with 2-3 future firsts IMVHO

Which of those teams is willing to trade out of the round?

[BatManu20]

Yea been saying the past week that I didn’t think there was any way they traded Keldon, especially after he was the only player invited to that event at The Rock at La Cantera last week and he was signing the building and partaking in photo-ops with ownership and everything.

I get the frustration with Keldon and understand why he would be the easiest/most desirable trade piece, but I do think PATFO really value him more than most of the fan base. Not only is he young and on a team-friendly deal, but he seems to be arguably the most liked personality in the locker room, as well as being a high-character kid. That matters to the Spurs more than most franchises. Not saying they won’t trade them eventually down the road, but I think they want to see what they have with he and the team around Wemby for a while first before making any permanent decisions tbh.

[SpursFan86]

Yeah it’s a little premature to act like we absolutely need to get rid of Keldon just because the theoretical fit seems iffy prior to even seeing him play alongside Victor. Would be interested to see the median outcome of the #10 pick in the draft - my guess is that it’d be a worse player than Keldon. Giving up Keldon + future first rounder(s) for a top 10 pick just doesn’t seem like the something the Spurs would even consider. His contract is friendly enough to where he can easily be moved down the road if the fit truly does end up becoming an issue.

My “best case” scenario for the draft is snagging Wallace if he falls into the 15-20 range. Think the asking price for Black will be too steep and I’m highest on Wallace out of the Wallace/Bufkin/JHS trio commonly being discussed.

In reality, the most likely scenario is we don’t trade up and just take a guy at 33 who unexpectedly fell out of the first round. Not as sexy, but seems like there are several interesting players who could wind up being available…and honestly getting Victor is plenty excitement for the night :lol

[tonight...you]

I don’t agree with the last part…Spurs have so many picks. Getting pick 8-11 seems doable if SA is willing to part with 2-3 future firsts IMVHO
Yeah, but... you have to see, when the time comes to pull the trigger, is the juice worth the squeeze?
And that is a bit unknowable, even if they player they want is available.

[BatManu20]

Yeah it’s a little premature to act like we absolutely need to get rid of Keldon just because the theoretical fit seems iffy prior to even seeing him play alongside Victor. Would be interested to see the median outcome of the #10 pick in the draft - my guess is that it’d be a worse player than Keldon. Giving up Keldon + future first rounder(s) for a top 10 pick just doesn’t seem like the something the Spurs would even consider. His contract is friendly enough to where he can easily be moved down the road if the fit truly does end up becoming an issue.

My “best case” scenario for the draft is snagging Wallace if he falls into the 15-20 range.Think the asking price for Black will be too steep and I’m highest on Wallace out of the Wallace/Bufkin/JHS trio commonly being discussed.

In reality, the most likely scenario is we don’t trade up and just take a guy at 33 who unexpectedly fell out of the first round. Not as sexy, but seems like there are several interesting players who could wind up being available…and honestly getting Victor is plenty excitement for the night :lol


I like him a lot too, but everything I’ve seen on him the past week is that he’s projected in the lottery. Obv we don’t know what’s going to happen, but the more I look at the draft, the more I agree he’s going top-14. Multiple teams in the lottery need a PG and guys like Keyonte George, Jordan Hawkins, and Nick Smith seem to be slipping out of the lottery, if these draft “insiders” are to be believed. We’ll see, but Wallace would be an awesome get and a nice fit on this roster.

[Mr. Body]

Washington -- Can't see them trading out of the round after dumping Bradley Beal. Their fans will riot.

Utah -- Has way too many future picks as it is. Are trying to trade up or will take a PG of their choice.

Dallas -- Needs a contributing player out of this draft somehow, will not just trade out.

Orlando -- May trade up using 6 and 11, will probably just nab Gradey Dick who should be here.

If any team is trading down into 8 or 11, that team will likely not want to trade the spot out of the round.

[BatManu20]

Not to beat a dead horse here, cause I know I’ve been stanning Bailey the past couple weeks, but my hope if we miss out on the other PG’s in the lottery would be to trade back into the 20’s to take this kid. I really think he’s a sleeper in this draft. He’s not falling to 33 imo, especially after his combine showing last week. so we’d have to move up for him. Not sure Spurs would be willing to trade a future 1st for him, but he’s an option and I think he’d be a good value pick on the early-mid 20’s of the draft.

1670908710217043968


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzBEmMnWIAAKBDm?format=png&name=small


wXUZoquzKkg

[CGD]

just curious as to whether or not houston would have any interest in helping out the spurs.

Winner winner chicken dinner

[BatManu20]

1670936443848458242

[jesterbobman]

The No Ceilings guys last mock had Cason at 16, with Utah pairing him with Anthony Black.

If he slips there, given Utah doesn't have excess 2024 picks ( they have excess picks in every other year for all eternity), I'd look into a trade where we give up the higher of the Toronto pick and the Charlotte pick (so a pick that's at most #7 next year) and 33 (maybe enough? might need a touch more) to move to 16.
The type of prospect Cason is ( as a strong guard who can defend 1 - (some) 3's, shoot, has awesome stats projections) might not super hit as a star initiator, but the range to me is De'Anthony Melton to Smart / Jrue. I think Melton is really good and fits well next to anyone, so I'd do that for the floor of what I think Cason's range is.

[spurraider21]

I like him a lot too, but everything I’ve seen on him the past week is that he’s projected in the lottery. Obv we don’t know what’s going to happen, but the more I look at the draft, the more I agree he’s going top-14. Multiple teams in the lottery need a PG and guys like Keyonte George, Jordan Hawkins, and Nick Smith seem to be slipping out of the lottery, if these draft “insiders” are to be believed. We’ll see, but Wallace would be an awesome get and a nice fit on this roster.
dont think anybody in the draft defends 1s and 2s at the point of attack as well as Wallace does

[offset formation]

Not to beat a dead horse here, cause I know I’ve been stanning Bailey the past couple weeks, but my hope if we miss out on the other PG’s in the lottery would be to trade back into the 20’s to take this kid. I really think he’s a sleeper in this draft. He’s not falling to 33 imo, especially after his combine showing last week. so we’d have to move up for him. Not sure Spurs would be willing to trade a future 1st for him, but he’s an option and I think he’d be a good value pick on the early-mid 20’s of the draft.

1670908710217043968


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzBEmMnWIAAKBDm?format=png&name=small


wXUZoquzKkg

His dead zone (~20% lower) left FT line extended (than right FT line extended) is odd.

[PhantomDashCam]

Not to beat a dead horse here, cause I know I’ve been stanning Bailey the past couple weeks, but my hope if we miss out on the other PG’s in the lottery would be to trade back into the 20’s to take this kid. I really think he’s a sleeper in this draft. He’s not falling to 33 imo, especially after his combine showing last week. so we’d have to move up for him. Not sure Spurs would be willing to trade a future 1st for him, but he’s an option and I think he’d be a good value pick on the early-mid 20’s of the draft.


Good stuff man.
One thing I always hope with my own Stan prospects is that: A) Hopeful at least they Spurs get a chance to work them out and B) If they're available when we pick (or can be obtained with the right assets earlier), I can ultimately live with the results if the Spurs go in another direction.
Bailey, if they love him (and they must at the very least like him, having him worked out); could be had...

[DPG21920]

Yeah, but... you have to see, when the time comes to pull the trigger, is the juice worth the squeeze?
And that is a bit unknowable, even if they player they want is available.

Agreed. I was just making a point that Spurs have assets to possibly get it done without moving Keldon or Devin if a team values future picks.

[tonight...you]

Agreed. I was just making a point that Spurs have assets to possibly get it done without moving Keldon or Devin if a team values future picks.
Understood.
I like the cut of your jib.

[PhantomDashCam]

Somewhat surprising...

1670105842106941442

[Degoat]

Somewhat surprising...

1670105842106941442

Needed more Klutch guys in attendance tbh lol idk he’s interesting, high upside but big bust potential too. Sounded dumb in team interviews I watched of him

[jesterbobman]

I don't think he's a top 20 guy, but a lot of teams could convince themselves that he could become kind of Ibaka like as a floor spacing big / rim protecting 4 (upgrading Lyles, more rim protection), and bet on the upside of a hard to find skillset and confidence in turning him into that.

I can see Clowney to Sacramento at 24. Really good fit if you are planning to build on the Fox / Sabonis pair, as that combination of skills is quite rare. Other teams could convince themselves given their need for size that can play next to another big (Miami next to Bam, GS next to Dray or Looney, etc).

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1671228090884685850

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Somewhat surprising...

1670105842106941442

This guy has the BBall IQ of a rock. Who the heck is giving him an invite in the first round, lol?

[Ignazzz]

http://e-nba.pl/uploads/monthly_2023_06/sochan1.jpeg.1a006678c6b95fdd33361aefcfb6b280.jpeg

[Ignazzz]

Sochan started preparation for new season

[T Park]

This guy has the BBall IQ of a rock. Who the heck is giving him an invite in the first round, lol?

10-1 Houston

[BatManu20]

O-Max was projected as a mid-2nd Rounder 2 weeks ago. Crazy what a good combine performance can do for you. He was one of my favorite prospects at 33, but that looks to be a pipe dream at this point.


1671243660501962753

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1671254120723013633

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1671251484087033856

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1671246762277756929

[PhantomDashCam]

All players compared themselves to current NBA players and stars. Podz though, is the only one who compares himself to a retired great, SAS own Manu Ginobili...
2:00 minute mark.


https://youtu.be/dM14pSLi3TI

[Mr. Body]

Leonard Miller without an invite.

[BatManu20]

Lol at drafting for fit over talent. Miller actually does have the talent to be Paul George-esque though, time will tell. We’ll see how this plays out over the next half decade.

1671354201325068295

[Kurik]

Miller in Charlotte at least gives the Spurs a better chance at getting the CHA pick.

[Mr. Body]

A guy who beat his wife, a guy who brought a gun to a murder, a guy who shoplifted while playing basketball in China.

[EricB]

If Miller is solid to good, that team is a playoff team.

[CorrectCrusader]

If Miller is solid to good, that team is a playoff team.

It's a playoff team already if Lamelo can stay healthy

[rascal]

Lol at drafting for fit over talent. Miller actually does have the talent to be Paul George-esque though, time will tell. We’ll see how this plays out over the next half decade.

1671354201325068295

I knew Charlotte would mess this up.

Jordan still making decisions for them.

Scoot will end up being much better. They gave Portland the better player.
Portland will probably even keep Scoot if they don't get what they want in a trade.

[SpursFan86]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10080062-brs-final-2023-nba-mock-draft-full-2-round-predictions

Newest mock from BR has Cason Wallace going last out of the commonly discussed Bufkin/Hood-Schifino/Wallace trio…hope this is the case as it’ll make him the most attainable while I view him as the best of the 3.

[Seventyniner]

The Spurs didn't just win the lottery when they won the lottery, they dodged a bullet by not landing at #3 and possibly being forced to choose between Miller and someone like a Thompson twin.

[Uriel]

I would be happy with Leonard Miller or Dariq Whitehead at 33. Big wings/combo forwards, first-round talent, high upside.

[Mr. Body]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10080062-brs-final-2023-nba-mock-draft-full-2-round-predictions

Newest mock from BR has Cason Wallace going last out of the commonly discussed Bufkin/Hood-Schifino/Wallace trio…hope this is the case as it’ll make him the most attainable while I view him as the best of the 3.

It's been an interesting process for the four of them. Hood-Schifino is by far the worst statistically but he could go before Bufkin and Wallace. I mean, his metrics look really bad, but he has size and glimpses.

The things I'm reading on Cason Wallace is that teams think he has a ceiling offensively, if they like him on defense. Suggests they may see him more of a backup or spot starter or otherwise doesn't have the 'star' upside. So it doesn't seem like he's getting the Kentucky dividend some claimed he would.

But then he cancelled workouts at one point, so he might even have a promise higher than we think...

[mo7888]

It's been an interesting process for the four of them. Hood-Schifino is by far the worst statistically but he could go before Bufkin and Wallace. I mean, his metrics look really bad, but he has size and glimpses.

The things I'm reading on Cason Wallace is that teams think he has a ceiling offensively, if they like him on defense. Suggests they may see him more of a backup or spot starter or otherwise doesn't have the 'star' upside. So it doesn't seem like he's getting the Kentucky dividend some claimed he would.

But then he cancelled workouts at one point, so he might even have a promise higher than we think...

Theres a video (i dont have the link at my fingertips rn) of Wallace and NSJ shooting in a workout at Washington that got a good bit of exposure a week or so ago. His mechanics weren't as smooth as you'd like. His stock started dropping(compared to the other PG's) when that video got passed around.

[Mr. Body]

My feeling is:

Anthony Black goes 8 or 9, with Utah springing ahead of Washington to get him if needed. Outside chance of Orlando at 6.

Kobe Bufkin goes 11 or 12 at the latest, maybe 13 to Toronto.

The other two, I have no idea. If Washington can't get Black, I can't see them taking Wallace at 8; their play seems to take the remaining PF (Hendricks, Walker) or trade for later picks.

Hood-Schifino could go to New Orleans or Atlanta, if Atlanta stays at 15.

Wallace seems like he could go many places. If the workout rumors are true, I can see him go late teens. Seems like Miami could grab him. If Utah pulls a big at 9, they could grab Wallace at 16.

[mo7888]

I don't really have a good feel for where anyone's going, but I've finished my final BB of how I value the players. Feel free to come back and chastise me in a couple of years if need be :)


Tier 1:
1. Victor Wembanyama
Tier 2:
2. Scoot Henderson
Tier 3:
3. Jarace Walker
4. Cam Whitmore
5. Amen Thompson
6. Brandon Miller
7. Ausar Thompson
8. Taylor Hendricks
9. Gradey Dick
Tier 4:
10. Nick Smith Jr
11. Kobe Bufkin
12. Anthony Black
13. Cason Wallace
14. Jordan Hawkins
Tier 5:
15. Kris Murray
16. Rayan Rupert
17. Keyonte George
18. Leonard Miller
19. Dereck Lively II
20. Jalen Hood-Schifino
21. Bilal Coulibaly
Tier 6:
22. Dariq Whitehead
23. O-Max Prosper
24. Jett Howard
25. Brandin Podziemski
26. Maxwell Lewis
27. Brian Sensabaugh
28. Gregory Jackson II
29. Noah Clowney
30. Tristan Vukcevic

[offset formation]

I would be happy with Leonard Miller or Dariq Whitehead at 33. Big wings/combo forwards, first-round talent, high upside.

I think there's very little to no chance we draft in the second round for two reasons.

1. If we move up, that high #2 (33) is perfect trade filler and would almost undoubtedly be gone.
2. If we move up, and don't trade that pick, we don't need another player this year beyond Wembanyama and that other 1st.

Not to mention if we decide to trade a Keldon or Vassell (doubtful at best), then we will get even more picks out of it.

And we already have a multitude of picks coming our way over the next several years, with lots of cap space for free agents, and a young roster they need to give time to. Would be unwise to pack the roster in SA and Austin with young unproven talent such that no one has a chance to blossom.

Only way we pick at #33 is if PATFO stays put and doesn't move up (and that would only happen if they see what they perceive as a fucking steal still on the board) and even then I could see #33 go as a trade chip for another vet player, pre-draft.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10080062-brs-final-2023-nba-mock-draft-full-2-round-predictions

Newest mock from BR has Cason Wallace going last out of the commonly discussed Bufkin/Hood-Schifino/Wallace trio…hope this is the case as it’ll make him the most attainable while I view him as the best of the 3.

That Cam Whitmore injury intel… Very interesting…


There have been some concerns over Cam Whitmore's medicals, which could cause a few teams to pass in the mid-lottery, per sources. This could be an opportunity for the Jazz or others to buy low on an 18-year-old who showed no signs of any injury affecting his explosiveness during the season.


Edit: Thought this may have been some disinformation but apparently he broke his tibia twice at 15 and his dad was told he may never play bball again. Jesus. Could it be from that? 3:20 mark
Sounds like a great kid though.


https://youtu.be/su1WpTKJXb0

[LeBowen]

If those reports about Hornets taking Miller at #2 and Blazers looking to trade #3 are correct, both franchises should be disbanded, no point in wasting anyone's time.

[BatManu20]

1671560602286735360

[BatManu20]

Nuggets just jumped us in the 2nd Round if we keep that pick. I actually like this for Denver though. They need cheap Rookie contracts to fill out their roster given their cap situation, and there’s good wing depth in this draft. They should get a couple of guys who can come in and contribute right away. I think guys like Brice Sensabaugh, Dariq Whitehead, Julian Strawther, Julian Jacquez, or Ben Sheppard would be great for them in that range.

1671569492034322438

[mo7888]

1671569492034322438

Solid move by both teams..

[spurraider21]

i know that indiana didnt want to take 4 guys in the top 32... but they got bad value here. even if the 2024 denver FRP ends up being, say, 25th or something, id rather have #29 this year than #25 next year

indiana is currently a purgatory team... if im them i probably would have worked to clear out some roster spots (dump hield for a future pick) and actually take 4 guys this year instead of taking a deal like this which kinda feels like negative value just for the sake of spacing out picks

[BatManu20]

Solid move by both teams..

Agreed. Pacers still have picks 7 & 26. They weren’t bringing in 4 Rookies. Beneficial for both parties.

[spurraider21]

man, pacers were very desperate to move out and took quite a value loss to do so, imo. hope the spurs dont end up in this situation. makes moving back up this year even more appealing if this is the market for dumping unwanted picks...

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[Mr. Body]

Don't totally get that for Indiana.

[Chinook]

So Denver got 29, 32, 37 and a 24 second at the cost of 40 and a protected pick in 2029? I don't know how I feel about that.

[R. DeMurre]

From Sam Vecenie's column today on The Athletic site:

Additionally, it’s worth noting two factors leading to this draft being remarkably difficult to project right now. First, I have never experienced as much smoke-screening in the NBA Draft as I have heard this year. Typically, a number of lies told, or rumors spread like wildfire and become widely accepted. But this year has been all over the map. Second, a number of picks seem to be truly available for acquisition. In large part, it has to do with the number of teams that have multiple picks.

[spurraider21]

29 and 32 this year are going to be great picks for a nuggets team entering a salary crunch, especially in this year's draft. pacers fucked up imo

if there was a draft to have "too many picks" it was this one. its not like the pacers are a complete team with a serious roster crunch

[R. DeMurre]

I think Denver has learned from Golden State's recent draft mistakes and are looking for college players who are skilled and can help immediately, rather than trying the lower success rate concept of finding the next young player who might be a #1 or #2 option in 5-7 years.

[BatManu20]

So Denver got 29, 32, 37 and a 24 second at the cost of 40 and a protected pick in 2029? I don't know how I feel about that.

Calvin Booth masterclass tbh. Showing why he’s one of the best GM’s in the league.

[Mr. Body]

Apparently this isn't Denver's pick next year. It's the worst of these:

Houston (1-4 protected)
Utah (1-10 protected)
LA Clippers (unprotected)
Oklahoma City (unprotected)

At least that seems to be the case. Denver is trading the worst of these that they were getting from OKC over to Indiana. It's probably the Clippers pick around 20 or so I guess. Confusing.

[BatManu20]

1671572472972419088

[Mugen]

I wonder what it would take to get Utah's #16. They've got 3 first rounders this year too, they'd probably be interested in kicking the can down the road if they can't consolidate and move up from #9.

[BatManu20]

I think Denver has learned from Golden State's recent draft mistakes and are looking for college players who are skilled and can help immediately, rather than trying the lower success rate concept of finding the next young player who might be a #1 or #2 option in 5-7 years.

Makes it a lot easier when you have the best player in the world who just entered his prime tbh. But I agree drafting more seasoned players/shooters to surround Jokic is the move right now.

[Mr. Body]

Have to think the Nuggets are grabbing Trayce Jackson-Davis if they can.

[BatManu20]

I wonder what it would take to get Utah's #16. They've got 3 first rounders this year too, they'd probably be interested in kicking the can down the road if they can't consolidate and move up from #9.

Was wondering that the other day, but Danny Ainge is one stingy fuck tbh. He usually won’t make a deal unless he bends you over. Only exception to that was that Westbrook trade he made with the Lakers last year, but he still got a FRP out of what was basically a salary dump situation.

[BatManu20]

Have to think the Nuggets are grabbing Trayce Jackson-Davis if they can.

Would be a great fit for them. Was just thinking yesterday how TJD is basically a poor man’s Aaron Gordon. Not exactly, but there’s a lot of similarities there for sure.

[R. DeMurre]

Calvin Booth deserves a ton of credit-- he swung a smart deal in the middle of the finals, and now has 4 shots at adding low cost role players in the next two drafts. Plus it looks like Christian Braun and Peyton Watson are ready for more minutes next season. I love that he preaches positional size so adamantly. Denver will never make the mistake of surrounding Jokic with a bunch of undersized players like Utah did with Gobert.

[Mugen]

Makes it a lot easier when you have the best player in the world who just entered his prime tbh. But I agree drafting more seasoned players/shooters to surround Jokic is the move right now.

This. Jokic's play style is so easy to build around too. It's not like it's Embiid or even Luka where he needs "mah touches"

Denver is going to be a problem for the next 5-6 years tbh.

[exstatic]

Was wondering that the other day, but Danny Ainge is one stingy fuck tbh. He usually won’t make a deal unless he bends you over. Only exception to that was that Westbrook trade he made with the Lakers last year, but he still got a FRP out of what was basically a salary dump situation.

It’s a weird pick, though. 1-4 protected, but Utah only gets one shot at it. If LA sucks, and they very well might, it might be zero. Doesn’t even devolve into SRPs.

[Mugen]

Was wondering that the other day, but Danny Ainge is one stingy fuck tbh. He usually won’t make a deal unless he bends you over. Only exception to that was that Westbrook trade he made with the Lakers last year, but he still got a FRP out of what was basically a salary dump situation.

I'd guess the CHA, TOR, and Bulls pick would get it done but that's a lot and I'd only like it if Cason or Bufkin were there.

[Mr. Body]

Ainge gave up two pretty decent rotation/bench guys and Michael Conley for a single future pick, right?

[Seventyniner]

If this is the price of unclogging the pipe, the Spurs should start trading away future picks soon before they get crunched.

[Mr. Body]

I'd guess the CHA, TOR, and Bulls pick would get it done but that's a lot and I'd only like it if Cason or Bufkin were there.

I didn't realize, but UTA has no picks next year. They owe their SRP outright and then their FRP to OKC with these protections:

Utah's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-10 in 2024, 1-10 in 2025 and 1-8 in 2026

Which probably conveys. I think Utah goes into the playoffs next year.

[Chinook]

If this is the price of unclogging the pipe, the Spurs should start trading away future picks soon before they get crunched.

Yep. Trading 33, the Charlotte pick and the Chicago pick for a really good first this year would be quite the boon, but finding takers for these seconds is also going to need to get handled.

[exstatic]

I'd guess the CHA, TOR, and Bulls pick would get it done but that's a lot and I'd only like it if Cason or Bufkin were there.

Yea, I’m not trading 3 FRPs for #16. Don’t care if Jesus returns, and is best player available when they’re on the clock. OKC traded three picks for #11 last year, and none of them were as good as the TOR or CHI picks.

[Mugen]

I didn't realize, but UTA has no picks next year. They owe their SRP outright and then their FRP to OKC with these protections:

Utah's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-10 in 2024, 1-10 in 2025 and 1-8 in 2026

Which probably conveys. I think Utah goes into the playoffs next year.

Interesting. Looking at the teams in the teens and they seem like the most likely trade partner IMO and there's a very high chance that Cason or Hood-Schifino is available at 16.

[Mr. Body]

Yea, I’m not trading 3 FRPs for #16. Don’t care if Jesus returns, and is best player available when they’re on the clock. OKC traded three picks for #11 last year, and none of them were as good as the TOR or CHI picks.

I think you could probably get the 16 with two of them or one and something else, like a later protected pick.

Utah wants to use 9 and 16 to trade up, but I don't think they will. Failing that, it sounds like they want to use 16 and 28 to move up, but I'm not sure that gets anything done.

[DesignatedT]

Yeah I'd do CHA 2024 and our own 2025 pick or something like that but not three FRPs to move into the late lottery.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Calvin Booth masterclass tbh. Showing why he’s one of the best GM’s in the league.

Can't go wrong with those Penn State grads.

[Bruno]

Spurs could add protection on picks and/or combine them to remove uncertainty about what the pick will be.

For example, Spurs could trade something like the best of Toronto (top 6 protected), Spurs (top 6 protected), Charlotte (top 14 protected) 2024 first round pick. If all 3 picks end up in the protected area, then do the same with 2025 first round picks...

[Mugen]

I'm not starting the convo offering 3 first rounders obviously but I'm not losing sleep if that's the final price to get a guy they really like who slipped past the lottery. Especially when the Spurs still have all of their picks, unprotected picks from ATL and pick swaps aplenty.

[RedAzSa]

I imagine that TOR 2024, ATL 2025, CHI 2025 will likely be higher than our own pick in those respective years. Does it make sense to instead trade our own picks in 2024 and 2025 + CHA 2024 and hold onto the others? It sounds like the Stepien rule doesn't apply (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-2022-how-complex-stepien-rule-decides-which-teams-can-and-cant-deal-first-round-picks/) when you have other picks in your pocket


The Stepien Rule prevents teams from being without first-round picks in consecutive years. The catch is that they need not control their own first-round pick. Any first-rounder satisfies the terms of the Stepien Rule

[Mr. Body]

I'm not starting the convo offering 3 first rounders obviously but I'm not losing sleep if that's the final price to get a guy they really like who slipped past the lottery. Especially when the Spurs still have all of their picks, unprotected picks from ATL and pick swaps aplenty.

Agree. If your guy is there, it doesn't matter whether you've spent 3 picks to get him at 8 or 16. Obviously you don't start there though. :)

[Mr. Body]

I imagine that TOR 2024, ATL 2025, CHI 2025 will likely be higher than our own pick in those respective years. Does it make sense to instead trade our own picks in 2024 and 2025 + CHA 2024 and hold onto the others? It sounds like the Stepien rule doesn't apply (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-2022-how-complex-stepien-rule-decides-which-teams-can-and-cant-deal-first-round-picks/) when you have other picks in your pocket

Yes, the time is coming fast when the Spurs' own picks will be worse than the ones we acquired. I can imagine they could offer their own with protections. Problem is the protections box out when you can trade further picks (if you don't have any others).

[JPB]

I'm not starting the convo offering 3 first rounders obviously but I'm not losing sleep if that's the final price to get a guy they really like who slipped past the lottery. Especially when the Spurs still have all of their picks, unprotected picks from ATL and pick swaps aplenty.

You can sleep peacefully, spurs would never do that. Nobody would trade 3FRPS for a non lottery pick. Not one example in history.

[Arcadian]

It's Wemby Eve :bobo

[JPB]

And again, this isn't 2K. Spurs will be wery cautious with their assets. One FRP + 33 (and eventually 44) is all I can see them be ready to give to trade up in the 20s. And I actually believe they won't trade up at all.

[td4mvp2k]

spurs could be hoping that's what happens where a lottery talent they like falls into the 20's making it easier to trade up without overpaying or losing key assets

[manufan10]

1671599539852288001

[BatManu20]

Naturally. Don’t think he’ll fall far enough for us to make a move anyways, but I’m not surprised.

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[Mr. Body]

I really think Coulibaly would be a mistake.

[AusSpur]

There is a bit of smoke coming out that Spurs could get pick 10 from Dallas in exchange for cap space so they can sign Draymond....

[Joseph Kony]

There is a bit of smoke coming out that Spurs could get pick 10 from Dallas in exchange for cap space so they can sign Draymond....
where are you hearing that?

[BatManu20]

There is a bit of smoke coming out that Spurs could get pick 10 from Dallas in exchange for cap space so they can sign Draymond....

Bring Bertans home tbh :cry

[BatManu20]

10th pick + Bertans for CHA pick + 33rd Pick this year. Who says no tbh.

[CGD]

I suspect there is a “fuck off” attitude toward spurs right now.

[CGD]

There is a bit of smoke coming out that Spurs could get pick 10 from Dallas in exchange for cap space so they can sign Draymond....

Bill Simmons mused about this on his podcast, but only as an example of what Dallas could do if Green signaled he’d sign there. Unless it was presented elsewhere, it was a pure example of how they could make the space.

[spurraider21]

I suspect there is a “fuck off” attitude toward spurs right now.
teams who need to deal will make deals

did the league have a fuck off attitude with the Cavs when they won the lottery in 3 out of 4 years and then were able to sign LeBron James back? nah, the cavs were still able to make trades, land kevin love, etc

[spurraider21]

10th pick + Bertans for CHA pick + 33rd Pick this year. Who says no tbh.
id be good with something like that tbh

but would keep 33 and give them 44 and 1-2 additional future seconds

bert isnt an expiring deal. i doubt he exercises his ETO. 2 years of a guy making north of about 1.5x full MLE money and hasnt been a serious rotation player for two years now... not to be taken lightly

[CGD]

Yeah, I’m talking about this draft specifically. Have no doubt they will deal again, even as soon as this summer.

[spurraider21]

Yeah, I’m talking about this draft specifically. Have no doubt they will deal again, even as soon as this summer.
nah, even this draft

if a team thinks they'll benefit from making a deal, they're not going to turn away a trade partner who is willing to tango unless they have a better partner

[Mr. Body]

10th pick + Bertans for CHA pick + 33rd Pick this year. Who says no tbh.

Dallas needs immediate contributors.

[spurraider21]

Dallas needs immediate contributors.
think the idea here is they use that cap space from dumping bertans to go get Draymond or somethin

[Mr. Body]

think the idea here is they use that cap space from dumping bertans to go get Draymond or somethin

The 10 is worth more than just cap space tho.

[Kindergarten Cop]

id be good with something like that tbh

but would keep 33 and give them 44 and 1-2 additional future seconds

bert isnt an expiring deal. i doubt he exercises his ETO. 2 years of a guy making north of about 1.5x full MLE money and hasnt been a serious rotation player for two years now... not to be taken lightly

I think I read somewhere that although the final year of Bertans' contract has a PO, it is only partially guaranteed (~$5M). Still not ideal, but it makes it a lot easier to swallow if true.

[scott]

Don't totally get that for Indiana.

This is a big W for Indiana, IMO. They basically trade picks this year they didn’t need and roll them forward next year with upside to SIGNIFICANTLY be improved. The pick they are getting back could be as high as #2 (though very unlikely). There is a decent path to it being a lotto pick, and the EV is probably somewhere around the LAC slot this year at #20.

IMO this is a solid trade by both teams.

[spurraider21]

The 10 is worth more than just cap space tho.
thats why they'd also be getting back the 24 charlotte pick + scraps

[spurraider21]

I think I read somewhere that although the final year of Bertans' contract has a PO, it is only partially guaranteed (~$5M). Still not ideal, but it makes it a lot easier to swallow if true.
ah, thats true

[spurraider21]

This is a big W for Indiana, IMO. They basically trade picks this year they didn’t need and roll them forward next year with upside to SIGNIFICANTLY be improved. The pick they are getting back could be as high as #2 (though very unlikely). There is a decent path to it being a lotto pick, and the EV is probably somewhere around the LAC slot this year at #20.

IMO this is a solid trade by both teams.
theres basically no upside to the pick. they get the "least favorable" of 4 different potential picks, including OKC and LAC

and next year's draft is going to be much much worse than this one. you'd probably want this year's 29th overall pick over next years 23rd overall pick or whatever

in the meantime they also gave up 32 this year which is also probably better than some of next year's late first rounders

indy lost value in this because they had a surplus of picks and didnt want to make all the selections. lesson to be learned for the spurs if they end up getting 3 FRPs in 2024 and 2025 and dont want to use them all. all the more reason to give up some of those picks to get an extra selection this year

[scott]

theres basically no upside to the pick. they get the "least favorable" of 4 different potential picks, including OKC and LAC

The “least favorable” can still be as high as #2 the way the protections are. There is considerable upside versus picking #29 (especially when you already have two FRPs you’ll have already made)


and next year's draft is going to be much much worse than this one. you'd probably want this year's 29th overall pick over next years 23rd overall pick or whatever

This is an incredibly stupid thing people keep saying. Next year’s draft doesn’t have Wemby - but trying to say today that it will be weaker than this year’s is just plain dumb. After Wemby, Scoot and the Thompsons, none of the top players in this draft were high on the radar - they emerged during the season, just like they do every year.


in the meantime they also gave up 32 this year which is also probably better than some of next year's late first rounders

Another pick they didn’t want that you’re projecting your imaginary crystal ball on. And they still got #40 back - which they may value higher than #32 because they might be able to get #40 into a two-way whereas they couldn’t with #32


indy lost value in this because they had a surplus of picks and didnt want to make all the selections. lesson to be learned for the spurs if they end up getting 3 FRPs in 2024 and 2025 and dont want to use them all. all the more reason to give up some of those picks to get an extra selection this year

There are lessons to be learned from having a glut of picks, but this is far from an L from IND, unless you base it on the ignorant premise that every range in next year’s draft will be worse than this year’s (which requires a crystal ball that you don’t have)

[objective]

think the idea here is they use that cap space from dumping bertans to go get Draymond or somethin

Even if they dumped Bertans with Javale on the Spurs they wouldn't really have any cap room with the holds for Kyrie and Dwight Powell.

Just the mle

[spurraider21]

The “least favorable” can still be as high as #2 the way the protections are. There is considerable upside versus picking #29 (especially when you already have two FRPs you’ll have already made)
yes, if all the protections play out a certain way and then OKC and LAC wind up with exactly the #1 and #2 overall picks. this is not a reasonable way to be looking at the pick.


This is an incredibly stupid thing people keep saying. Next year’s draft doesn’t have Wemby - but trying to say today that it will be weaker than this year’s is just plain dumb. After Wemby, Scoot and the Thompsons, none of the top players in this draft were high on the radar - they emerged during the season, just like they do every year.
im not talking about the top of the draft. the depth of this year's class is unusual.


Another pick they didn’t want that you’re projecting your imaginary crystal ball on. And they still got #40 back - which they may value higher than #32 because they might be able to get #40 into a two-way whereas they couldn’t with #32

There are lessons to be learned from having a glut of picks, but this is far from an L from IND, unless you base it on the ignorant premise that every range in next year’s draft will be worse than this year’s (which requires a crystal ball that you don’t have)
you can play the crystal ball card on anything. i can say that you are a fool to think that wemby will be a very good NBA player because you dont have the crystal ball needed to make that claim.

people make evaluations ahead of time. its called scouting. not everything is just plain hindsight, theres a degree of projection in this. nobody nails everything but there is a general consensus that this year's draft is deep and that there is pessimism as it relates to next year's crop.

[AusSpur]

Bill Simmons mused about this on his podcast, but only as an example of what Dallas could do if Green signaled he’d sign there. Unless it was presented elsewhere, it was a pure example of how they could make the space.

Sometimes Simmons muses on the stuff he is hearing (mostly just talking shit).

But add it to Vecenie's comment today in his mock for Dallas' pick 10 position ("If there is a surprise team that tries to spike up the board into the top 10 that no one sees coming, the Spurs are a candidate."), and it's a little smoke coming from here.

[Mr. Body]

Sometimes Simmons muses on the stuff he is hearing (mostly just talking shit).

But add it to Vecenie's comment today in his mock for Dallas' pick 10 position ("If there is a surprise team that tries to spike up the board into the top 10 that no one sees coming, the Spurs are a candidate."), and it's a little smoke coming from here.

The Spurs clearly have the cap space to absorb Bertans or even more. They have future draft capital. They just need something to give Dallas for this year, which they're missing. They did well drafting in the second round last year with Jalen Hardy but the 33 won't do it for item number three.

[spurraider21]

well this almost certainly means portland will be moving that #3 pick, right? guess the hold up is that right now their potential trade partners dont know if that pick will be miller or scoot. should be miller, but hornets look very committed to making the wrong pick

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[Mr. Body]

well this almost certainly means portland will be moving that #3 pick, right? guess the hold up is that right now their potential trade partners dont know if that pick will be miller or scoot. should be miller, but hornets look very committed to making the wrong pick

1671589258581221382

There's word that they're trying to 'thread the needle' by giving Lillard young upcoming players around him like Sharpe, Simons and presumably Scoot. Because that sort of thing worked so well for Golden State and those three players are even close to being able to win games. Lillard is saying he wants veterans around him.

[CGD]

Even if they dumped Bertans with Javale on the Spurs they wouldn't really have any cap room with the holds for Kyrie and Dwight Powell.

Just the mle

The bottom line is that DAL needs bodies too, not just future picks. Not sure we’re a match

[CGD]

There's word that they're trying to 'thread the needle' by giving Lillard young upcoming players around him like Sharpe, Simons and presumably Scoot. Because that sort of thing worked so well for Golden State and those three players are even close to being able to win games. Lillard is saying he wants veterans around him.

Feels like POR would like it to comes from Dame that HE wants out, as opposed to being seen as the ones that wronged the player. And, Dame doesn’t want to be the villain either for whatever reason. This “threading the needle” thing feels more like POR putting the pressure back on Dame.

[Mr. Body]

Feels like POR would like it to comes from Dame that HE wants out, as opposed to being seen as the ones that wronged the player. And, Dame doesn’t want to be the villain either for whatever reason. This “threading the needle” thing feels more like POR putting the pressure back on Dame.

You got to shit or get off the pot and they're both just shitting everywhere.

[exstatic]

The 10 is worth more than just cap space tho.

It’s worth whatever Dallas decides it’s worth.

[Mr. Body]

It’s worth whatever Dallas decides it’s worth.

Which is more than just cap space, lmao.

[exstatic]

Which is more than just cap space, lmao.

In your opinion.

[Mr. Body]

In your opinion.

Yes, Dallas will trade the 10 to get out of Davis Bertans' salary.

[timtonymanu]

Portland is just so dumb, for years it was apparent that Dame and CJ wouldn’t work together so what do they do? Replace him with Simons, another McCollum. Portland doesn’t deserve another shot at keeping lillard anymore.

[exstatic]

Yes, Dallas will trade the 10 to get out of Davis Bertans' salary.

To sign a vet they want? Quite possibly. What’s the real difference if they do a three way deal with us a Golden State for Green or if it’s a trade, then a FA signing? Would you find the three way trade preposterous?

[Degoat]

I absolutely love the draft and will watch the entire thing until the end but it’s gonna be weird that the spurs pick right from the get go at #1 lol not something I’m use to, usually have to wait for ages for our pick

[Mr. Body]

To sign a vet they want? Quite possibly. What’s the real difference if they do a three way deal with us a Golden State for Green or if it’s a trade, then a FA signing? Would you find the three way trade preposterous?

Lol, yes. Ain't nobody giving up a 10 to clear cap space. Did you run your head against a wall?

[wildbill2u]

More trade news today about Porzingis to Celtics. Somebody at ST is going to have to create a new thread just to analyze the trades already announced and figure out how they are going to affect the draft. Of course, no one is going to be perfect, but the thread would be interesting anyway.

[EricB]

And the Porzingis trade is muerte

[SpursFan86]

And the Porzingis trade is muerte

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1671707757467107328?s=46&t=7J7PSnY8RJS8_UemWCmgcA

Maybe…still being worked out. What a shit show - glad we’re not involved in this :lol

[exstatic]

Lol, yes. Ain't nobody giving up a 10 to clear cap space. Did you run your head against a wall?

I’m not saying it’s going to happen, I’m saying it’s going to happen if Dallas decides it is. Did you ever think you would see three FRPs traded for one FRP outside of the top 10? Because that happened a year ago.

[Seventyniner]

Even if they dumped Bertans with Javale on the Spurs they wouldn't really have any cap room with the holds for Kyrie and Dwight Powell.

Just the mle

I think the idea is that it would be a sign-and-trade of Draymond to Dallas, with them sending Bertans and McGee to the Spurs for salary matching purposes. The Warriors would get a huge trade exception out of the deal rather than having Draymond walk for nothing.

On second thought, this doesn't work very well. The trade couldn't actually happen until the moratorium is over, while the pick has to be used on draft night. I guess the Spurs could tell Dallas who to pick but I don't think handshake deals are allowed: Dallas could renege and just keep the #10 pick player if they change their mind in the 2 weeks in between.

[Degoat]

As some of you may know, I enjoy speculation lol started falling a bunch of the draft prospects on Instagram and Branham follows Brandin Podziemski now, he hasn’t been following him until now… Probably nothing… But who knows

Not my favorite prospect tbh lol but he offers some intriguing skills

[Dex]

I absolutely love the draft and will watch the entire thing until the end but it’s gonna be weird that the spurs pick right from the get go at #1 lol not something I’m use to, usually have to wait for ages for our pick

Same. Will be interesting to see if we do any other wheeling or dealing, but assuming that's not the case then there is really not much intrigue for us

Not that I'm complaining. It's pretty rare that you have a chance to take the clear-cut, no questions asked #1 pick

[BatManu20]

As some of you may know, I enjoy speculation lol started falling a bunch of the draft prospects on Instagram and Branham follows Brandin Podziemski now, he hasn’t been following him until now… Probably nothing… But who knows

Not my favorite prospect tbh lol but he offers some intriguing skills

Sochan follows him now too. Sochan’s in NYC for the draft too though so I’m sure he’s been kickin’ it with a lot of these young prospects and becoming cool with em this week. Podz did work out for the Spurs I believe. Malaki could’ve been around the facility while they were working him out. Not uncommon for team’s players to watch prospects a scrimmage. Wouldn’t look too much into it tbh.

[playblair]

I absolutely love the draft and will watch the entire thing until the end but it’s gonna be weird that the spurs pick right from the get go at #1 lol not something I’m use to, usually have to wait for ages for our pick


Same. Will be interesting to see if we do any other wheeling or dealing, but assuming that's not the case then there is really not much intrigue for us

Not that I'm complaining. It's pretty rare that you have a chance to take the clear-cut, no questions asked #1 pick
watch the abc version of the draft not the espn version........the abc version will have more player stories & full interviews with each pick......

[BatManu20]

Everything I’m reading has the Mavs trying to trade out of the 10th pick in an attempt to salary dump + add players/picks. I’m sure a bunch of teams are trying to get in on that, but not many teams have as much ammunition as we do except for OKC. Spurs should really be aggressive here and make the move up to 10. Could even make it a 3-Team trade.

Something like:

Mavs receive: Deandre Ayton, 2024 Spurs SRP + Cap space (to go after Draymond)


Suns receive: Reggie Bullock, 2023 Spurs SRP (#33), 2024 Spurs FRP (from TOR) + Cap space (to go after Poeltl)


Spurs receive: 10th Overall Pick, Davis Bertans


Pipe dream probably but would make sense for all parties involved tbh.

[BatManu20]

Either way, that 10th Pick sounds like it’s up for grabs and the Spurs should be all over it. Make it happen Brian.

[JPB]

Either way, that 10th Pick sounds like it’s up for grabs and the Spurs should be all over it. Make it happen Brian.

I don't think they should and I def don't think they will. They'll quietly pick Wemby and call it a draft unless somebody they LOVE, not just like, is still there in the late 20s they could softly trade up for...

All in all, I think they won't move (or make major moves) after Wemby.

[heyheymymy]

That Nuggets trade feels kinda personal now lol DEN has 2 picks, #29 and #32 dropped right before Spurs #33 to clear out all the fallers before SA selects. Plus a follow up net behind #33 as well. It's like a raid lol

Hope SA moves up and it's a moot point.

[heyheymymy]

Bat Manu nice job with a pretty realistic and balanced exchange there. Interesting proposal.

[JPB]

Everything I’m reading has the Mavs trying to trade out of the 10th pick in an attempt to salary dump + add players/picks. I’m sure a bunch of teams are trying to get in on that, but not many teams have as much ammunition as we do except for OKC. Spurs should really be aggressive here and make the move up to 10. Could even make it a 3-Team trade.

Something like:

Mavs receive: Deandre Ayton, 2024 Spurs SRP + Cap space (to go after Draymond)


Suns receive: Reggie Bullock, 2023 Spurs SRP (#33), 2024 Spurs FRP (from TOR) + Cap space (to go after Poeltl)


Spurs receive: 10th Overall Pick, Davis Bertans


Pipe dream probably but would make sense for all parties involved tbh.

I believe it would take more for the spurs than one top 6 protected FRP and two SRPs to get #10 in this draft... And I believe Dallas can get better offers.

[spurraider21]

I believe it would take more for the spurs than one top 6 protected FRP and two SRPs to get #10 in this draft... And I believe Dallas can get better offers.
They’d be doing that and eating the Bertans deal as part as the compensation

[objective]

Everything I’m reading has the Mavs trying to trade out of the 10th pick in an attempt to salary dump + add players/picks. I’m sure a bunch of teams are trying to get in on that, but not many teams have as much ammunition as we do except for OKC. Spurs should really be aggressive here and make the move up to 10. Could even make it a 3-Team trade.

Something like:

Mavs receive: Deandre Ayton, 2024 Spurs SRP + Cap space (to go after Draymond)


Suns receive: Reggie Bullock, 2023 Spurs SRP (#33), 2024 Spurs FRP (from TOR) + Cap space (to go after Poeltl)


Spurs receive: 10th Overall Pick, Davis Bertans


Pipe dream probably but would make sense for all parties involved tbh.

Suns would not have cap space. Durant, Beal, and Booker combined are almost exactly the full salary cap. I suppose they would have a trade exception depending on when the new cba rules are fully in effect.

Mavericks would not have caproom at all without renouncing Kyrie.

[scott]

yes, if all the protections play out a certain way and then OKC and LAC wind up with exactly the #1 and #2 overall picks. this is not a reasonable way to be looking at the pick.

It’s a part of the exact way you should be looking at the pick. The 2023 pick has a 0% chance of being anything but pick #29. The “lesser of” pick has tons of possibilities, each with their own estimation of what the odds of those scenarios playing out - which sum to make the expected value of the 2024 pick. Unless you think LAC or OKC are odds on favorites of Top-2 records, next year’s pick will be better than #29. The best guess, right now, IMO, is that it will be somewhere around 20 - which is what it would have been had that exact pick been in play this year.

OKC is on the rise, and LAC was a playoff team… but OKC still may not be ready, and LAC finished only 1 game ahead of the play-in. Even if you think it’s only a 20% shot it finishes a lottery pick, that is infinitely better than the odds #29 this year becomes a lottery pick. Pacers made a great trade for their circumstances.

[scott]

Anyone know how I can watch the draft from Japan?

[k830713]

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/spurs/trades/lZseO5Peyrgy14/wizzards-spurs

[mo7888]

Everything I’m reading has the Mavs trying to trade out of the 10th pick in an attempt to salary dump + add players/picks. I’m sure a bunch of teams are trying to get in on that, but not many teams have as much ammunition as we do except for OKC. Spurs should really be aggressive here and make the move up to 10. Could even make it a 3-Team trade.

Something like:

Mavs receive: Deandre Ayton, 2024 Spurs SRP + Cap space (to go after Draymond)


Suns receive: Reggie Bullock, 2023 Spurs SRP (#33), 2024 Spurs FRP (from TOR) + Cap space (to go after Poeltl)


Spurs receive: 10th Overall Pick, Davis Bertans


Pipe dream probably but would make sense for all parties involved tbh.

Sure, but do the Mavs want Ayton on that contract? Does anybody?

[BacktoBasics]

Everything I’m reading has the Mavs trying to trade out of the 10th pick in an attempt to salary dump + add players/picks. I’m sure a bunch of teams are trying to get in on that, but not many teams have as much ammunition as we do except for OKC. Spurs should really be aggressive here and make the move up to 10. Could even make it a 3-Team trade.

Something like:

Mavs receive: Deandre Ayton, 2024 Spurs SRP + Cap space (to go after Draymond)


Suns receive: Reggie Bullock, 2023 Spurs SRP (#33), 2024 Spurs FRP (from TOR) + Cap space (to go after Poeltl)


Spurs receive: 10th Overall Pick, Davis Bertans


Pipe dream probably but would make sense for all parties involved tbh.

Out of all the crap we see here… which mostly consists of “trade Keldon”. I don’t mind this. It takes some liberties and it’s a stretch but at least you’re thinking about consolidating capital without unloading Keldons much needed production.

[JPB]

Anyone know how I can watch the draft from Japan?

https://livesport24.net/basketball-streams/

you just need to have an unabled VPN to access the site, Just close the couple annoying pop ups when you open the live stream.

[Seventyniner]

Suns would not have cap space. Durant, Beal, and Booker combined are almost exactly the full salary cap. I suppose they would have a trade exception depending on when the new cba rules are fully in effect.

Mavericks would not have caproom at all without renouncing Kyrie.

The Suns would get a $22M trade exception from this deal because that's how much more salary they would be sending out than receiving. Poeltl could be signed-and-traded into that exception, though Phoenix has basically nothing to offer to Toronto in return.

The Mavs part wouldn't work at all. Taking in Ayton and sending out Bullock/Bertans actually increases their team salary, and leaves them with only a handful of players on the roster to send to GS for a potential sign-and-trade of Draymond to Dallas because the salaries would have to match within 10%.

Still, I understand the idea here. If the Mavs want to dump salary and are willing to take back picks (since the Spurs don't really have any players they are willing to give up and are useful to the Mavs, except maybe McDermott?) then the Spurs are the perfect trading partner because the Spurs want another first this year and have plenty of cap space. The Mavs not taking a player back would give them the trade exception and make other sign-and-trades easier.

We could always see the apocalypse: dual sign-and-trade of Kyrie to GS and Draymond to Dallas. That would make me laugh so hard.

[benefactor]

The draft falls on my off day. I'm grateful to Allah for the favor bestowed upon me.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Ballislife/status/1671888269611773952

[rascal]

The top five picks

1. Wembanyama
2. Miller
3. Scoot
4. Amen Thompson
5. Cam Whitmore

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1671894491094224896

[Uriel]

I’m ready for the Spurs to not make any trades this year and draft a safe, low-upside player at 33 and a two-way player at 44. :lol

[SpursFan86]

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/1671901799878479872?s=46&t=7J7PSnY8RJS8_UemWCmgcA

Interesting…Miller’s odds to go #2 have dropped noticeably today.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Pretty sure Scoot will go 2nd. I don't buy all the Miller talk, smokescreens imo.

[buttsR4rebounding]

That would lower the value of #3 for Portland. Probably scuttles any trade for a "star" player.

[cd98]

I'd bet Scoot goes 2nd. Too much star potential. If you are Charlotte, you go with the better talent and worry about positions later.