Latest Inside Info on Jakob Poeltl Trade Rumors

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/latest-spurs-insider-intel-jakob-poeltl-trade-offers/

[DPG21920]

Thanks man - retweeting on Twitter for more exposure as well.

Not surprised about POR - it seemed like a good fit. Just don’t know what they can offer.


POR, if they had any assets, would be a great fit for Jak…Nurk sucks and Jak would help them tremendously. I just don’t see a path where they can give SA much. They owe a first to CHI lottery protected for like 4 years, but I guess could do two future firsts…

I am surprised at TOR being so aggressive. I mean, I get the fit, but they are all kinds of off this year but I guess they have no intention of selling off their team.

Spurs and BOS being such great trade partners is funny…getting a fully unprotected pick is very enticing…but not sure that it’s enough since SA can pick swap unless its pick 1 already….Is getting whatever you would have gotten from BOS (say pick 2-10) already + keeping your own pick too worth it? But having another fully unprotected pick + your own is enticing.

I truly hope they flip Richardson for a first. I would love to do one swoop deal with Lakers for Jakob/Richardson/Doug tbh…that is most attractive path. I value the vets too and they have been great. But I think they have served their purpose and I don’t know that losing them would do any damage and Spurs need to lose games tbh..

[lmbebo]

Thanks man - retweeting on Twitter for more exposure as well.

Not surprised about POR - it seemed like a good fit. Just don’t know what they can offer.



I am surprised at TOR being so aggressive. I mean, I get the fit, but they are all kinds of off this year but I guess they have no intention of selling off their team.

Spurs and BOS being such great trade partners is funny…getting a fully unprotected pick is very enticing…but not sure that it’s enough since SA can pick swap unless its pick 1 already….Is getting whatever you would have gotten from BOS (say pick 2-10) already + keeping your own pick too worth it? But having another fully unprotected pick + your own is enticing.


I dunno about the boston offer...I'd want the protections removed and an additional protected pick...

[DPG21920]

I dunno about the boston offer...I'd want the protections removed and an additional protected pick...

I would be fine with just getting the pick as is vs it being a swap. The pick is only protected for #1 which is as good as it gets. Converting that to a legit trade and getting another first would be incredible.

[exstatic]

I would be fine with just getting the pick as is vs it being a swap. The pick is only protected for #1 which is as good as it gets. Converting that to a legit trade and getting another first would be incredible.

I would push to leave the swap as is, and get either the 2027 or 2029 pick, unprotected. If the 2028 swap is converted to a traded pick, we can’t get either of those picks, since that would be consecutive traded picks, they own no others those years, and that would violate the stepien rule.

Basically, our hope is that by 2028, we’re good, and they suck,and we swap the pick. If they turn 2028 into a straight traded pick, we’d only be getting our good pick in exchange for Jakob, probably something in the 20s.

[Mr. Body]

If this is true, then interest in Poeltl is higher than many expect. Boston needs to go all-in now; Toronto is on the verge of collapsing fully into the lottery. I don't really buy NOP or POR having much interest in him. It just doesn't make sense.

I also don't know about Richardson or McBuckets being traded, although squeezing something out of Richardson before he leaves may be best.

The contract Poeltl is looking for is not a bad one at all. Although he anchors a terrible defense and doesn't seem to matter to whether the team wins or loses (Richardson and Buckets seem to matter more), he's still a piece that is hard to replace. They can always trade him later.

[Leetonidas]

Deadline will come and go and Poeltl, J-Rich, and McNugget will all still be here imo

that TOR deal is interesting though, i wonder what third team it is and where GTJ would be going (assuming its the third team)

[KobesAchilles]

How can a team devoid of talent trade away a top 10 center? Makes zero sense. Poeltl is just too valuable to winning. You need a player of his capability in order to contend. The dude is a winning player and trading him away will set the franchise back even more

[Leetonidas]

How can a team devoid of talent trade away a top 10 center? Makes zero sense. Poeltl is just too valuable to winning. You need a player of his capability in order to contend. The dude is a winning player and trading him away will set the franchise back even more

We have the 4th worst record and the worst defense of all time :lol his value to winning sure isnt showing up right now. For the right team, sure. But we are a looong way from that imo

[exstatic]

How can a team devoid of talent trade away a top 10 center? Makes zero sense. Poeltl is just too valuable to winning. You need a player of his capability in order to contend. The dude is a winning player and trading him away will set the franchise back even more

They’re not making the calls, only fielding them. They’ve also set a rather high price, such that they should be able to replace him with a draft pick more aligned with the current timeline. Even if we get Wemby, Jak will likely be 30 by the time we contend for a title.

[JPB]

There's always some bluff and smoke, and putting your demands very high and saying you won't budge from that allows you to start negociating from there, but if Wright can get 2 FRPs for Poetl, well big kudos, that would be his biggest coup so far as SA's GM...

But I don't see this happening other than a in 3 (or more) team deal... and I actually don't see it happening at all, although I wish it does.

[RC_Drunkford]

Veteran wing Josh Richardson is also available for a second-round pick, (https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-russell-westbrook-og-anunoby-cam-reddish-kyle-kuzma-rui-hachimura-more/) league sources told HoopsHype. Richardson, a 29-year-old 3-and-D swingman, will become an unrestricted free agent this summer.
2 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/josh-richardson-available-for-a-second-round-pick/) – via HoopsHype (https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-russell-westbrook-og-anunoby-cam-reddish-kyle-kuzma-rui-hachimura-more/)




Veteran sharpshooter Doug McDermott could command one or two second-round picks on the trade market depending on the pick number and any protections, (https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-russell-westbrook-og-anunoby-cam-reddish-kyle-kuzma-rui-hachimura-more/) league sources told HoopsHype. McDermott has shot 41.8 percent from downtown during his Spurs tenure and is owed $13.75 million next season. 2 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/doug-mcdermott-available-on-trade-market/) – via HoopsHype (https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-russell-westbrook-og-anunoby-cam-reddish-kyle-kuzma-rui-hachimura-more/)



I trust TimVP's sources more. Not sure where these reports are coming from. A 2nd for J-Rich is not enough

[slick'81]

I trust TimVP's sources more. Not sure where these reports are coming from. A 2nd for J-Rich is not enough


thats all you're going to get for a journeyman wing

[Leetonidas]

I trust TimVP's sources more. Not sure where these reports are coming from. A 2nd for J-Rich is not enough

I'd rather keep J-Rich and try to re-sign him as vet mentorship going forward rather than just give him away for nothing. He seems to have respect of the youngsters and they look to him for leadership. every team needs guys like this regardless of how bad they are overall imo

[JPB]

I trust TimVP's sources more. Not sure where these reports are coming from. A 2nd for J-Rich is not enough

Timvp actually have sources.

[exstatic]

thats all you're going to get for a journeyman wing

Contenders, who usually pick in the mid to late 20s, value a wing who can shoot and defend, and playmake a bit over some pick they will likely never get a chance to develop. Hell , both Boston and Phoenix muffed LOTTERY picks in Jalen Smith and Romeo Langford because they didn’t fit the timeline, and there were no development minutes for them.

[Ariel]

Thanks. Toronto and Boston were expected, NO & Portland definitely not. I can see the rationale of NO going all in for Poeltl, they're on the verge of contending and his prime is perfectly aligned with NO's core. They have a surplus of picks courtesy of LAL & Milwaukee plus their own, this could be their signal that they're going all in right now.
Portland's interest puzzles me. Nurkic is on the books for 3 more years beyond this one, at 55M, adding 4 years & 80M for another center doesn't seem like the best use of the salary cap to me. Also, they can't trade a single first round pick, because of protections on the pick they traded to Chicago for Larry Nance Jr, and they don't have much interesting youngsters that they'd be willing to part with (besides Simons and Sharpe, whom they won't touch).
As for Richardson and McDermott, it seems like posturing to me, much like Detroit is doing for Bogdanovic & Burks. They won't put out there that they'll take any deals, so obviously they want to negotiate from a position of strength, much like they tried to do with Dejounte when they said it'd take a Jrue Holiday package to get him. That served them well as Atlanta eventually made a nice offer, but not quite what they were asking for. A S&T is unlikely and even then it wouldn't require a first, unless we're talking about a bigger package taking back salary. I'd take a nice '23 2nd (say in the 30s) if no better option is available.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Contenders, who usually pick in the mid to late 20s, value a wing who can shoot and defend, and playmake a bit over some pick they will likely never get a chance to develop. Hell , both Boston and Phoenix muffed LOTTERY picks in Jalen Smith and Romeo Langford because they didn’t fit the timeline, and there were no development minutes for them.

Not only that but it allows them to offer him more than MLE money in the summer if they want to keep him, which most of the contenders wouldn't be able to otherwise.

[Ariel]

I would push to leave the swap as is, and get either the 2027 or 2029 pick, unprotected. If the 2028 swap is converted to a traded pick, we can’t get either of those picks, since that would be consecutive traded picks, they own no others those years, and that would violate the stepien rule.

Basically, our hope is that by 2028, we’re good, and they suck,and we swap the pick. If they turn 2028 into a straight traded pick, we’d only be getting our good pick in exchange for Jakob, probably something in the 20s.
Yeah. An unprotected '27 or '29 first, removing no. 1 protection on the '28 swap, and Kornet would be perfect.

[Mugen]

Clean house tbh :lol

[Dverde]

If the Spurs get two lightly protected first for an expiring poodle, that is some next level GMing stuff. They could still outbid the same team in the off-season and bring poodle back. That would be epic.

[jjspur]

If we trade Poeltl, please trade him to the eastern conference so when plays against us he won't score 40 points and grab 20 rebounds, at least no more than twice a year. Boston and Toronto are the usual suspects but we we need something decent in return other than just late round draft picks.

[Ariel]

If the Spurs get two lightly protected first for an expiring poodle, that is some next level GMing stuff. They could still outbid the same team in the off-season and bring poodle back. That would be epic.
Likely any team that trades for Poeltl will have a (*wink* *wink*) "understanding" of what he expects and that he intends to resign.

[Dverde]

I trust TimVP's sources more. Not sure where these reports are coming from. A 2nd for J-Rich is not enough

He’s expiring and probably not coming back. 2nd rounder is better than nothing. Obviously, Spurs should try to get more, but if that’s the highest offer, Spurs should take it.

[MultiTroll]

"-Speaking of ... McDermott, the Spurs aren’t in a hurry to deal either player. San Antonio values the veteran leadership both players provide to the team."

:pctoss
I hope that's a Spurs bluff.

[MultiTroll]

Likely any team that trades for Poeltl will have a (*wink* *wink*) "understanding" of what he expects and that he intends to resign.
Concur. Can't see any team so close to the Championship that they think Poodle will put them over the edge thus pay for a 1/2 year rental.
Celtics? They needed to go to Oz and get a brain and heart. Had the Warriors beaten up 3-2.

[MultiTroll]

https://www.spurstalk.com/latest-spurs-insider-intel-jakob-poeltl-trade-offers/Nicely done porks.
You hit on all the Spurs players.

:lol The agents assistant GMs etc etc sound like a bunch of gossip girls.

[CGD]

Trent has been linked to PHX recently. Could it be:

TOR: Jakob
PHX: Trent
SAS: Saric + filler + PHX FRP + TOR FRP

[mo7888]

Trent has been linked to PHX recently. Could it be:

TOR: Jakob
PHX: Trent
SAS: Saric + filler + PHX FRP + TOR FRP

He's been linked to NY as well but your deal makes more sense to me for all involved..

[KingKev]

Trent has been linked to PHX recently. Could it be:

TOR: Jakob
PHX: Trent
SAS: Saric + filler + PHX FRP + TOR FRP

Raps will wan’t more for GTJ. I’d rather cut PHX out and take Trent instead of eating Saric and the Suns FRP.

[Ice009]

I would push to leave the swap as is, and get either the 2027 or 2029 pick, unprotected. If the 2028 swap is converted to a traded pick, we can’t get either of those picks, since that would be consecutive traded picks, they own no others those years, and that would violate the stepien rule.

Basically, our hope is that by 2028, we’re good, and they suck,and we swap the pick. If they turn 2028 into a straight traded pick, we’d only be getting our good pick in exchange for Jakob, probably something in the 20s.

I'm not really following what the Celtics' offer is. Currently the Spurs have a pick swap in 2028 with the Celtics that is protected for 1st only. Is that correct? If so, what is the proposed offer? Do we get another 2028 unprotected FRP pick from the Celtics on top of the pick swap (Do the Celtics have more than one FRP in 2028?), or is the offer the same pick from the pick swap outright traded to us with the number 1 protection lifted? If it's traded to the Spurs, do the Spurs still keep their own 2028 FRP?

[scott]

We've heard this before, but it still surprises me we have zero interest in Kuminga. He must be considered pretty boneheaded/uncoachable to just be a hard pass.

[scott]

I'm not really following what the Celtics' offer is. Currently the Spurs have a pick swap in 2028 with the Celtics that is protected for 1st only. Is that correct? If so, what is the proposed offer? Do we get another 2028 unprotected FRP pick from the Celtics on top of the pick swap (Do the Celtics have more than one FRP in 2028?), or is the offer the same pick from the pick swap outright traded to us with the number 1 protection lifted? If it's traded to the Spurs, do the Spurs still keep their own 2028 FRP?

Yeah, it's converting the swap to an actual pick without any protection.

So, if you assume the Spurs will be better than the Celtics in 2028, the Spurs basically get to keep their own pick. Doesn't seem like enough for Jak, IMO.

[Chinook]

The Boston offer is basically the worse of the SA and Boston picks in 2028 with a tiny chance it's Boston's first-overall pick that same year. It's not nothing. It's real value. But it's not enough in my opinion

[exstatic]

I'm not really following what the Celtics' offer is. Currently the Spurs have a pick swap in 2028 with the Celtics that is protected for 1st only. Is that correct? If so, what is the proposed offer? Do we get another 2028 unprotected FRP pick from the Celtics on top of the pick swap (Do the Celtics have more than one FRP in 2028?), or is the offer the same pick from the pick swap outright traded to us with the number 1 protection lifted? If it's traded to the Spurs, do the Spurs still keep their own 2028 FRP?

It’s the pick, protection removed and outright traded. I kind of hate it, because at that point, we’re likely to be good, so instead of a swap with Boston, who could be bad at that point, the payment for Jak is basically our own not so good pick, which I wouldn’t want to keep, just to swap.

[exstatic]

The Boston offer is basically the worse of the SA and Boston picks in 2028 with a tiny chance it's Boston's first-overall pick that same year. It's not nothing. It's real value. But it's not enough in my opinion

Not my understanding. They want to remove the#1 protection, and convey the pick instead of it being a swap.

[KingKev]

Not my understanding. They want to remove the#1 protection, and convey the pick instead of it being a swap.

Re read what he said. That’s exactly what it is. It is an additional pick that will equate to the worst of BOS or our FRP in 2028 since we already have the option to swap. Additionally, all protections are removed. I wouldn’t be soo confident we are back on our feet by 2028. 5 years removed from the Kawhi sauga and we don’t have a single player who will likely make an AS game.

[Ariel]

Not my understanding. They want to remove the#1 protection, and convey the pick instead of it being a swap.
That's the same as what he's saying...
A) top 1 protected swap: you get the better of the 2 picks, except if it's Boston's no. 1 in which case you get the lower.
B) unprotected pick: you get the 2 picks: the better of the 2 even if it's Boston's no. 1, and the lower of the 2
B - A = i) we get to keep Boston's no. 1 should it be so + ii) we get the lower of the 2 picks

[rankingtear]

We get BOS pick on 2028 , no swap or protection. So we have 2 picks in 2028. Instead of 1.

[Mnky]

We've heard this before, but it still surprises me we have zero interest in Kuminga. He must be considered pretty boneheaded/uncoachable to just be a hard pass.

It has to be a personality/persona thing. Maybe they interviewed him at some point or something. Maybe they're worried about chemistry and his role? It's odd to me as well. Kuminga has a solid chance to develop into an above average player and plays both ways.

[Mr. Body]

We've heard this before, but it still surprises me we have zero interest in Kuminga. He must be considered pretty boneheaded/uncoachable to just be a hard pass.

I'm also curious. He's certainly worth a look basketball-wise. He kills the Spurs whenever they play. But his personality really sounds like it's pretty awful.

[KingKev]

Kuminga has a solid chance to develop into an above average player and plays both ways.

There is your answer; won’t fit in with our young group. Just kidding but I doubt Kuminga is actually on the table.

[spurs10]

I truly hope they flip Richardson for a first. I would love to do one swoop deal with Lakers for Jakob/Richardson/Doug tbh…that is most attractive path. I value the vets too and they have been great. But I think they have served their purpose and I don’t know that losing them would do any damage and Spurs need to lose games tbh..

I'm wondering what full deal for all three of our guys would look like with the Lakers.

[Kevin]

From what I understand players remaining salary are prorated on a per game basis. Doing the math Russ will only be owed about 15.5 million by the Feb 9 deadline. I'd trade J-Rich or McBuckets for Russ and a unprotected first. Factoring the outbound salary of Richardson or Dougie the it would really only cost the Spurs about 10-12 million to buy an unprotected Lakers first.

I'd also take the unprotected first from Boston. The Pels picks don't interest me unless they include a unprotected Laker's pick which seems unlikely.

[TD 21]

I said weeks ago, before Trent Jr. was being bandied about as the prominent Raptor most likely (and probably period) to be traded, that the compromise would be him going to a third team (Lakers? Knicks? Magic?) to get the Spurs the second 1st they seek and presumably taking on Birch's relative albatross in the process (Richardson could also be included).

The Celtics '28 unprotected 1st is probably the best single asset they can get, but they don't have an expendable secondary one and obviously they look about as well setup as anyone for the next half decade, so that could be a long wait for very little, either to keep or eventually reroute.

[CGD]

Raps will wan’t more for GTJ. I’d rather cut PHX out and take Trent instead of eating Saric and the Suns FRP.

Maybe, but not sure HOW much above Jakob they can expect (i assume they want Jakob because he’s let it been know he’ll resign there). Maybe the Suns need to also send out a small pick to them since they’re getting arguably the better player and saving $$, but not much more.

[CGD]

He's been linked to NY as well but your deal makes more sense to me for all involved..

Interesting since NYK have all those picks. I asume that would mean we have to eat Fournier in that deal.

[mo7888]

Interesting since NYK have all those picks. I asume that would mean we have to eat Fournier in that deal.
I think that's a fair assumption

[DPG21920]

I would push to leave the swap as is, and get either the 2027 or 2029 pick, unprotected. If the 2028 swap is converted to a traded pick, we can’t get either of those picks, since that would be consecutive traded picks, they own no others those years, and that would violate the stepien rule.

Basically, our hope is that by 2028, we’re good, and they suck,and we swap the pick. If they turn 2028 into a straight traded pick, we’d only be getting our good pick in exchange for Jakob, probably something in the 20s.

Ya, I meant removing the swap portion to full ownership of the pick (protected from pick 1 only) but also get another pick. I would not be counting our own as a pick even though it does functionally mean that by it not being a swap for sure.

[DPG21920]

Not only that but it allows them to offer him more than MLE money in the summer if they want to keep him, which most of the contenders wouldn't be able to otherwise.

Yup. When you have limited assets due to no cap space but need to improve trading and getting bird rights is key.

[DPG21920]

At a minimum I would love for Josh and Doug to be moved. If we move Jak I am good with that too. But if we can move Josh + Doug and get 1 first out of that and a 2nd collectively I would be happy.

Then we have Jak still, can resign him by functionally allocating Dougs money to Jak (plus a little more) and still have more draft capital to add to stash.

[objective]

Would rather keep Poeltl and pay him $20 a year than have that 28 Boston first.

Spurs will need a center, and Wemby will probably need a center next to him for the first few years anyway should the Spurs be so lucky.

Of all the 2028 picks in the league, Boston is one of the few teams to reasonably think should still be good based on their current young players.

[PhantomDashCam]

I wonder what the Pelicans would be willing to give up for Poeltl? Lots of talent and assets on that roster…

[spurraider21]

At a minimum I would love for Josh and Doug to be moved. If we move Jak I am good with that too. But if we can move Josh + Doug and get 1 first out of that and a 2nd collectively I would be happy.

Then we have Jak still, can resign him by functionally allocating Dougs money to Jak (plus a little more) and still have more draft capital to add to stash.
doug can be moved next year when he's on the last year of his deal, so there's less of a rush there. i think right now him having that additional year decreases his value if anything because the team trading for him is making a commitment they probably dont want to.

the only player we definitely should move is josh richardson. i'd obviously move jak if the right deal came along, but id also be fine just re-signing him anyway, so i wouldnt move him just for the sake of moving him and getting something.

[lmbebo]

I wonder what the Pelicans would be willing to give up for Poeltl? Lots of talent and assets on that roster…

Would take the LAL pick this year from them. Doubt its a top 3 pick, would guess late lotto or in the teens at worst.

[KingKev]

Would take the LAL pick this year from them. Doubt its a top 3 pick, would guess late lotto or in the teens at worst.

lol we are not getting that

[PhantomDashCam]

Would take the LAL pick this year from them. Doubt it’s a top 3 pick, would guess late lotto or in the teens at worst.

Agree with KingKev on this. Don’t think they’d be willing to part with that.
But they have 2 first rounders next year (LA again, and their own or right to swap with Milwaukee) which may enter discussions.

Again they may be unlikely to do this but

NOP: Poeltl
SAS: Kira Lewis + Trey Murphy III + 2024 NOP/Milwaukee pick

Lots of overlap on positions if you’re buying NOP having a full roster come playoff time.
Kira is redundant there, Trey may be considered untouchable but if Ingram and Herb Jones are healthy; is he going to play?

[TD 21]

Agree with KingKev on this. Don’t think they’d be willing to part with that.
But they have 2 first rounders next year (LA again, and their own or right to swap with Milwaukee) which may enter discussions.

Again they may be unlikely to do this but

NOP: Poeltl
SAS: Kira Lewis + Trey Murphy III + 2024 NOP/Milwaukee pick

Lots of overlap on positions if you’re buying NOP having a full roster come playoff time.
Kira is redundant there, Trey may be considered untouchable but if Ingram and Herb Jones are healthy; is he going to play?

No way a team that light on 3-point shooting and with a lot of salary committed going forward (in a small market, no less), trades their best shooter, who's got another 2.5 seasons remaining on an inexpensive contract.

They'd likely offer Lewis and a 1st, but would need to find a third team to take Valanciunas, possibly supplying the Spurs with another asset.

[exstatic]

From what I understand players remaining salary are prorated on a per game basis. Doing the math Russ will only be owed about 15.5 million by the Feb 9 deadline. I'd trade J-Rich or McBuckets for Russ and a unprotected first. Factoring the outbound salary of Richardson or Dougie the it would really only cost the Spurs about 10-12 million to buy an unprotected Lakers first.

I'd also take the unprotected first from Boston. The Pels picks don't interest me unless they include a unprotected Laker's pick which seems unlikely.

They have a last, very interesting unprotected pick from LA. It’s in 2024, with the option for NO to defer to 2025.

[exstatic]

Would rather keep Poeltl and pay him $20 a year than have that 28 Boston first.

Spurs will need a center, and Wemby will probably need a center next to him for the first few years anyway should the Spurs be so lucky.

Of all the 2028 picks in the league, Boston is one of the few teams to reasonably think should still be good based on their current young players.

No. Tatum will be 30, and Brown will be 32. That’s 3 and 5 years past prime. There’s also nothing to say they’ll still be there in 5 1/2 years. It’s a good pick, but we already have the option to swap for it. We don’t need both picks. I’d rather have their 2029 FRP, unprotected.

[Mr. Body]

Boston is sort of in the middle of a championship run. A bit unbelievable given how just okay they are. God, this era sucks for good teams. Anyway, one thing that's hard for teams in their position is retaining good role players. You run out of cap space and flexibility. Horford won't last forever and their other pieces are just fine.

Marcus Smart is basically the heart of the team and he's 28 years old. Without him, Brown and Tatum seem to be playing in two different worlds. Again, how this team is a contender is beyond me. They barely have anyone of note beyond these guys.

[Seventyniner]

Boston is sort of in the middle of a championship run. A bit unbelievable given how just okay they are. God, this era sucks for good teams. Anyway, one thing that's hard for teams in their position is retaining good role players. You run out of cap space and flexibility. Horford won't last forever and their other pieces are just fine.

Marcus Smart is basically the heart of the team and he's 28 years old. Without him, Brown and Tatum seem to be playing in two different worlds. Again, how this team is a contender is beyond me. They barely have anyone of note beyond these guys.

Having so many teams that think they have a shot this year should be good for the Spurs, in that it could create a seller's market.

This is a great time to accumulate future picks. I get that the Spurs are being picky, and this far out from the trade deadline they need to stick to their guns. But if a putative contender (Boston, Phoenix) comes calling at a bit less than the Spurs are looking for, I hope the Spurs pull the trigger. A bird in the hand as it were.

[mo7888]

No. Tatum will be 30, and Brown will be 32. That’s 3 and 5 years past prime. There’s also nothing to say they’ll still be there in 5 1/2 years. It’s a good pick, but we already have the option to swap for it. We don’t need both picks. I’d rather have their 2029 FRP, unprotected.

Get them to drop their 2028 #1 protection and include the unprotected 2029.... that should be acceptable to both teams really...

[Robz4000]

Get them to drop their 2028 #1 protection and include the unprotected 2029.... that should be acceptable to both teams really...

Chances of them getting the #1 pick are incredibly slim. If they give the Spurs the pick itself and their '29 pick unprotected then pull the trigger imo.

[exstatic]

Having so many teams that think they have a shot this year should be good for the Spurs, in that it could create a seller's market.

This is a great time to accumulate future picks. I get that the Spurs are being picky, and this far out from the trade deadline they need to stick to their guns. But if a putative contender (Boston, Phoenix) comes calling at a bit less than the Spurs are looking for, I hope the Spurs pull the trigger. A bird in the hand as it were.

They’re not locked into trading Jak. There have been discussions with his reps, and he’s open to signing a new deal, just not an extension. They won’t come off his price. There’s probably some wiggle room on the other guys, but as has been said, it appears to be a sellers market.

[mo7888]

Chances of them getting the #1 pick are incredibly slim. If they give the Spurs the pick itself and their '29 pick unprotected then pull the trigger imo.

They can't..it would violate the Stepien rule...

[exstatic]

Chances of them getting the #1 pick are incredibly slim. If they give the Spurs the pick itself and their '29 pick unprotected then pull the trigger imo.

They can’t change the 2028 from a swap to a pick AND trade the 2029 pick. They hold no other picks those years, so that would be consecutive FRP trades, a no no under the Stepien rule. Just leave 2028 as a swap, and trade the 2029 for Jak. Perfectly legal.

[Chinook]

They can't..it would violate the Stepien rule...

Think Robz just wants that swap to be unprotected. They'd still have a guaranteed 2028 pick. Or maybe not? I'd prefer unprotecting the swap and getting the 2026 pick.

[Ariel]

Chances of them getting the #1 pick are incredibly slim. If they give the Spurs the pick itself and their '29 pick unprotected then pull the trigger imo.
If you mean changing the '28 swap rights the Spurs currently hold for Boston's '28 pick (top 1 protected) PLUS Boston's unprotected '29 pick, that's not possible per the Stepien rule which forbids teams from trading 1st round picks in consecutive years. If you mean not changing '28 and adding an unprotected '29 pick, that's doable. But if they're willing to go there, might as well as them to drop the protection on the swap as well, right? :D

[scott]

What's the record for how far a team starts the season under the minimum? If we move Jak and Doug, we might be able to contend for that next year.

[Ariel]

What's the record for how far a team starts the season under the minimum? If we move Jak and Doug, we might be able to contend for that next year.
If that's the position we find ourselves in, it likely means we couldn't turn the available cap space to get any meaningful assets, which is a failure in itself. Hope that's not the case.

[scott]

What's the record for how far a team starts the season under the minimum? If we move Jak and Doug, we might be able to contend for that next year.

Closest I could find to answering this question is this: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/

This season, the Spurs are at 78.2% of the cap. Going back to 2011, only two teams have been lower. The 2016 TWolves at 76.0% and the 2011 Kings at 63.1% (LOL)

[BacktoBasics]

I wonder what the Pelicans would be willing to give up for Poeltl? Lots of talent and assets on that roster…

It would never happen but I’d love to get Dyson Daniels.

[scott]

If that's the position we find ourselves in, it likely means we couldn't turn the available cap space to get any meaningful assets, which is a failure in itself. Hope that's not the case.

Which is exactly the situation we find ourselves in now, barring moves before the deadline. Unfortunately, it is becoming familiar territory. Let's see what happens, but the cap space rental market does not appear to be as booming as perhaps we hoped. On the bright side, there are a few more weeks to go.

[mo7888]

Think Robz just wants that swap to be unprotected. They'd still have a guaranteed 2028 pick. Or maybe not? I'd prefer unprotecting the swap and getting the 2026 pick.

Pretty sure that's not what he wanted... my suggestion was to just let the swap be unprotected and take the 2029 pick..

[mo7888]

I wonder what the Pelicans would be willing to give up for Poeltl? Lots of talent and assets on that roster…

I'd be hard to make a deal there I'd think... we probably prefer to trade jak to the east but, I'd probably only do the Nola deal for the Lakers unprotected next year OR their pick this year (which includes the LA pick swap) and either Murphy or Daniels...

[Mr. Body]

I'd be hard to make a deal there I'd think... we probably prefer to trade jak to the east but, I'd probably only do the Nola deal for the Lakers unprotected next year OR their pick this year (which includes the LA pick swap) and either Murphy or Daniels...

Jesus, you might as well ask for the owner's balls while you're at it.

[mo7888]

Jesus, you might as well ask for the owner's balls while you're at it.

That was my point...it'd be very hard to get done..


And I'm pretty sure she doesn't have balls to give...

[DPG21920]

doug can be moved next year when he's on the last year of his deal, so there's less of a rush there. i think right now him having that additional year decreases his value if anything because the team trading for him is making a commitment they probably dont want to.

the only player we definitely should move is josh richardson. i'd obviously move jak if the right deal came along, but id also be fine just re-signing him anyway, so i wouldnt move him just for the sake of moving him and getting something.

Ya agree. Don’t think its urgent, with regards to allocation capital, moving Doug and Josh and allocating that money back into Jak keeps us in similar spot cap wise, nets us some extra picks and just in general feels good lol.

But it’s not dire or anything. But if someone is willing to truly offer us one unprotected pick for Jakob I would take that instead of holding line for two picks that are not as good. Quality > quantity

That RUI trade hurst the market though…that was not a lot to give up for a young player who can put up 30 even if he has problems

[Robz4000]

They can't..it would violate the Stepien rule...

Was distracted when I posted this and forgot about that tbh. Gotta give the Spurs at least another pick imo, otherwise I'd pass.

[CGD]

Ya agree. Don’t think its urgent, with regards to allocation capital, moving Doug and Josh and allocating that money back into Jak keeps us in similar spot cap wise, nets us some extra picks and just in general feels good lol.

But it’s not dire or anything. But if someone is willing to truly offer us one unprotected pick for Jakob I would take that instead of holding line for two picks that are not as good. Quality > quantity

That RUI trade hurst the market though…that was not a lot to give up for a young player who can put up 30 even if he has problems

Does the Rui thing hurt though? Doesn’t he have the same issue that Jalen Smith had last year after the team failed to pick up his contract and then was traded, that is, if he over performs the Lakers can’t offer him a big extension? If that’s the case I think this is a very fair deal.

[exstatic]

Does the Rui thing hurt though? Doesn’t he have the same issue that Jalen Smith had last year after the team failed to pick up his contract and then was traded, that is, if he over performs the Lakers can’t offer him a big extension? If that’s the case I think this is a very fair deal.

No. He just couldn’t reach an agreement with the Wiz, and was redundant to Kuzma.

[Chinook]

Does the Rui thing hurt though? Doesn’t he have the same issue that Jalen Smith had last year after the team failed to pick up his contract and then was traded, that is, if he over performs the Lakers can’t offer him a big extension? If that’s the case I think this is a very fair deal.

The Lakers get ROFF on Hach. They don't have any restriction on re-signing him.

[CGD]

No. He just couldn’t reach an agreement with the Wiz, and was redundant to Kuzma.

I see, they didn’t outright decline any part of his deal (ala Jalen Smith), so they still can basically make him a RFA.

[TD 21]

Trent has been linked to PHX recently. Could it be:

TOR: Jakob
PHX: Trent
SAS: Saric + filler + PHX FRP + TOR FRP

I could see it, but I'd amend it to . . .

Suns receive: Trent Jr.
Spurs receive: Saric (to be bought out), Birch, Raptors 1st (anywhere from top 10 - lottery protected), Suns 1st (lottery protected)
Raptors receive: Poeltl, Shamet

[CGD]

I could see it, but I'd amend it to . . .

Suns receive: Trent Jr.
Spurs receive: Saric (to be bought out), Birch, Raptors 1st (anywhere from top 10 - lottery protected), Suns 1st (lottery protected)
Raptors receive: Poeltl, Shamet

That’d be ideal (not eating Shamats deal), but I don’t think Raptors would be interested. Best scenario would be if Suns recognize the sunk cost with Crowder and dump him on us as part of the ballast.

[Kevin]

I could see it, but I'd amend it to . . .

Suns receive: Trent Jr.
Spurs receive: Saric (to be bought out), Birch, Raptors 1st (anywhere from top 10 - lottery protected), Suns 1st (lottery protected)
Raptors receive: Poeltl, Shamet

Yuck for the Spurs. A late first and a mid first that might not convey plus a bad contract and a buyout player. As others have said cut the Suns out of the deal.

[TD 21]

That’d be ideal (not eating Shamats deal), but I don’t think Raptors would be interested. Best scenario would be if Suns recognize the sunk cost with Crowder and dump him on us as part of the ballast.

Would give them a lesser, cheaper Trent Jr. replacement.

Suns need a four or at least someone who can credibly play it in return for Crowder.


Yuck for the Spurs. A late first and a mid first that might not convey plus a bad contract and a buyout player. As others have said cut the Suns out of the deal.

Suns 1st isn't late at the moment and far from assured of reaching that point, while Raptors 1st, Spurs could protect themselves to where if it falls past whatever point they deem acceptable, it doesn't convey until a subsequent year.

[exstatic]

Yuck for the Spurs. A late first and a mid first that might not convey plus a bad contract and a buyout player. As others have said cut the Suns out of the deal.

There’s probably a reason for a 3rd team, like a player TOR wants to get rid of that we want no part of.

[Ariel]

There’s probably a reason for a 3rd team, like a player TOR wants to get rid of that we want no part of.
VanVleet another candidate for that player, besides Gary Trent Jr:
https://marcstein.substack.com/p/nba-trade-deadline-latest-whispers-016
https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/phoenix_suns_target_three_players_who_can_replace_ 37_year_old_chris_paul_in_the_future/s1_16751_38387849
Chris Paul is back for Phoenix after missing seven games with a hip injury, but the 37-year-old has played in only 27 of the Suns' 48 games this season, having missed 14 games earlier due to a heel injury. Word is that those realities have prompted the Suns to start assessing their post-Paul future and thus identify Charlotte's Terry Rozier, New York's Immanuel Quickley and Toronto's Fred VanVleet as potential trade targets. The latest signals from the Knicks, as I reported on Jan. 14, indicate that Quickley will not be made available at this deadline. Rozier, though, is widely perceived as attainable given the Hornets' slide into Victor Wembanyama territory, while VanVleet's future with Canada's team remains unclear given the 21-27 Raptors' struggles and VanVleet's desire for a lucrative new contract in the offseason.

[CGD]

Yuck for the Spurs. A late first and a mid first that might not convey plus a bad contract and a buyout player. As others have said cut the Suns out of the deal.

I think a world where the Spurs end up netting two FRPs that end up being in the mid-teens is a good outcome here.

[TeKu]

VanVleet another candidate for that player, besides Gary Trent Jr:

There's a potential deal to be constructed here with Ayton to Raps, VanVleet & Poetl to Suns, Saric, Birch/Young + picks to Spurs. Requires Raptors to give up on this season though as they'd have no PG's to speak of at all...

[CGD]

There's a potential deal to be constructed here with Ayton to Raps, VanVleet & Poetl to Suns, Saric, Birch/Young + picks to Spurs. Requires Raptors to give up on this season though as they'd have no PG's to speak of at all...

I don’t think anyone wants Ayton at his figure.

Still think the basic framework is Trent to Suns, Jakob to Raptors, and filler + 2 FRPs to Spurs. The fight will be about the quality of picks and whether Toronto is owed anything on top of Jakob.

[CGD]

I don’t think anyone wants Ayton at his figure.

Still think the basic framework is Trent to Suns, Jakob to Raptors, and filler + 2 FRPs to Spurs. The fight will be about the quality of picks and whether Toronto is owed anything on top of Jakob.

The variant is PHX decides to go big and targets OG instead of Trent. The frameworks holds but of course the picks would have to change.

[Chinook]

The variant is PHX decides to go big and targets OG instead of Trent. The frameworks holds but of course the picks would have to change.

If Ayton is going to Toronto, the Suns likely want a center.

[CGD]

If Ayton is going to Toronto, the Suns likely want a center.

Ah, just caught up with Ayton to Raptors rumors. What TeKu lays out above makes much more sense now.

[poopbox]

I'm expected to believe that there is a team who will give up 2 first round picks for a center with no offense game, who is terrible at one on one defense, and can walk away after this season :rollin

Boston trying to get Poeltl for doing nothing more than removing a protection on a pick we will get anyway unless its number 1 overall :rollin

At least that is more realistic than this two first round picks for Poeltl nonsense.

The darkest timeline involves having to pay Poeltl 20 million a year

[TrueSpursFan]

Boston trying to get Poeltl for doing nothing more than removing a protection on a pick we will get anyway unless its number 1 overall :rollin



At first it does seem like that but it is actually a first round pick because we wouldn’t be giving up our first round pick. Originally with the Derrick White trade it was a swap, so with this trade we would just get theirs with no protection and keep ours.

[RC_Drunkford]

with how good the draft is looking the Spurs should try to focus on getting another first round pick for the 2023 draft. They might be able to steal somebody talented in the late first round like they usually do

[Mr. Body]

with how good the draft is looking the Spurs should try to focus on getting another first round pick for the 2023 draft. They might be able to steal somebody talented in the late first round like they usually do

Is this actually a good draft?

[rjv]

if all this is legit, i can't see how the spurs pass on the offer to acquire assets and hold on to jakob.

[cd98]

Truth be told, if we get firsts, it will likely only be in a Poeltl trade. Maybe if we take on salary, but the only option I see on that is LA and I'm not convinced they are ready to part with potential lottery picks just to get rid of Russell's contract.

[Ariel]

Truth be told, if we get firsts, it will likely only be in a Poeltl trade. Maybe if we take on salary, but the only option I see on that is LA and I'm not convinced they are ready to part with potential lottery picks just to get rid of Russell's contract.
A Westbrook trade would definitely bring us the most assets, but if we end up trading with the Lakers I think something like Richardson for Beverly and the Lakers' own '23 second is more likely. I wouldn't scoff at that if we don't have a better deal on the table.

[mo7888]

Is this actually a good draft?

It is at the top...and better than most drafts as of late down to 12 or 15...

[Leetonidas]

I'm expected to believe that there is a team who will give up 2 first round picks for a center with no offense game, who is terrible at one on one defense, and can walk away after this season :rollin

Boston trying to get Poeltl for doing nothing more than removing a protection on a pick we will get anyway unless its number 1 overall :rollin

At least that is more realistic than this two first round picks for Poeltl nonsense.

The darkest timeline involves having to pay Poeltl 20 million a year


I don't think you quite understand how the swap works, or if you do youre being disingenuous about it. The Spurs don't just get the Celtics pick in 2028, they have the option to swap draft positioning. Removing the #1 protection and actually trading the picks gives us two picks in 2028, not just one. 2028 is a long way away and we have no clue where we or they will be. Netting an unprotected 1st instead of a top-1 protected swap is not just a punt.

Secondly...Toronto gave us a 1st for an expiring, undersized C with no offensive game who is terrible on defense just last year and Poeltl is 10x the player that Young was at the time. A team trading for Poeltl also obtains his bird rights and a contender over the cap can re-sign him above the cap while keeping their MLE. He is definitely worth 2 picks to the right team. Even that bum Mozgov got two firsts back in 2015 iirc.

It's not that hard to believe tbh

[Ariel]

It is at the top...and better than most drafts as of late down to 12 or 15...
May be, but it's extremely unlikely we get a good pick in that range. We should focus on the top 3-8 (top 2 doesn't need any scouting), and also in the mid-late first round (a trade there is usually possible), and early second (we already have a pick in the low 30s -currently 34- and may land more). Someone is sure to fall into that range, which is always very interesting (usually a lot of older but very solid prospects):
'22: Nembhard @31, Koloko @33
'21: Herb Jones @35, Ayo Dosunmu @38
'20: Desmond Bane @30 -first, but moving a few slots up should be doable-, Tre Jones @41
'19: Claxton @31, Terance Mann @48
'18: Brunson @33, Mitchell Robinson @36, Gary Trent Jr @37
'17: Dillon Brooks @45
'16: Zubac @32, Malcom Brogdon @36
and so on. There's always value there, usually the high ceiling prospects are all already taken, but a few solid prospects slip and are there for the taking for those who did their homework.

[mo7888]

May be, but it's extremely unlikely we get a good pick in that range. We should focus on the top 3-8 (top 2 doesn't need any scouting), and also in the mid-late first round, and early second. We already have a pick in the low 30s (currently 34), and someone is sure to fall into that range, which is always very interesting. There's usually a lot of older but very solid prospects that fall into that range:
'22: Nembhard @31, Koloko @33
'21: Herb Jones @35, Ayo Dosunmu @38
'20: Desmond Bane @30 -first, but moving a few slots up should be doable-, Tre Jones @41
'19: Claxton @31, Terance Mann @48
'18: Brunson @33, Mitchell Robinson @36, Gary Trent Jr @37
'17: Dillon Brooks @45
'16: Zubac @32, Malcom Brogdon @36
and so on. There's always value there, usually the high ceiling prospects are all already taken, but usually there are many solid players that slip and are there for the taking for those who did their homework.

I'm not really that interested in adding picks outside the top 15 this year. We have 3 rooks on the team now and if I'm adding to that I want our pick and another in the top 15 if we can reasonably swing it. I'm going upside on those picks too... I'd even be amenable to adding our 2nd rd pick to a deal that nets us a pick in that range if need be....

[Mr. Body]

It is at the top...and better than most drafts as of late down to 12 or 15...

I don't think so. It's Wembanyama and that's about it. Certainly doesn't compare to this last draft, which was excellent throughout the lottery.

[Ariel]

I'm not really that interested in adding picks outside the top 15 this year. We have 3 rooks on the team now and if I'm adding to that I want our pick and another in the top 15 if we can reasonably swing it. I'm going you upside on those picks... I'd even be amenable to adding our 2nd rd pick to a deal that nets us a pick in that range if need be....
You don't have to use them necessarily, you can use them in a trade up, or trade them for future picks, or even in a draft & stash if there's no better option. But you need to be ready and have assets that others may want in case an opportunity presents itself. I'm all for whatever increases our options, and though a lottery pick is surely ideal, I find it very unlikely we can land another one at this time (usually it's far out picks that unexpectedly end up conveying in the lottery later on).

[Ariel]

I don't think so. It's Wembanyama and that's about it. Certainly doesn't compare to this last draft, which was excellent throughout the lottery.
At this time last year lots of people were saying the class of '22 was weak comparing to that of '21, which turned out to be nonsense. We should wait a couple more months before passing judgment on that, TBH.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think you quite understand how the swap works, or if you do youre being disingenuous about it. The Spurs don't just get the Celtics pick in 2028, they have the option to swap draft positioning. Removing the #1 protection and actually trading the picks gives us two picks in 2028, not just one. 2028 is a long way away and we have no clue where we or they will be. Netting an unprotected 1st instead of a top-1 protected swap is not just a punt.

Secondly...Toronto gave us a 1st for an expiring, undersized C with no offensive game who is terrible on defense just last year and Poeltl is 10x the player that Young was at the time. A team trading for Poeltl also obtains his bird rights and a contender over the cap can re-sign him above the cap while keeping their MLE. He is definitely worth 2 picks to the right team. Even that bum Mozgov got two firsts back in 2015 iirc.

It's not that hard to believe tbh

Slight correction -- Toronto didn't give us a 1st for Thad Young, they swapped our 2nd for their 1st. So we moved up about 13 spots.

[Mr. Body]

At this time last year lots of people were saying the class of '22 was weak comparing to that of '21, which turned out to be nonsense. We should wait a couple more months before passing judgment on that, TBH.

Just saying a class is weak doesn't magically make it a good one. And... I don't remember people saying 22 was weaker than 21. If so, they were mistaken from the beginning, as 22 was always looking better. In fact, 21 always looked remarkably weak.

This draft looks pretty poor, to be honest.

[mo7888]

I don't think so. It's Wembanyama and that's about it. Certainly doesn't compare to this last draft, which was excellent throughout the lottery.

Much better than the last draft, talent wise, in that range... in fact the top 6 in this draft probably go #1 in last years draft... but I understand your position...you're more pessimistic than most here when it comes to draft prospects... it is a crap shoot and that breeds certain amount of insecurity..

[rascal]

Yeah, it's converting the swap to an actual pick without any protection.

So, if you assume the Spurs will be better than the Celtics in 2028, the Spurs basically get to keep their own pick. Doesn't seem like enough for Jak, IMO.

If both the celtics and spurs are lottery teams the spurs can have two unprotected lottery picks in 2028.

[rascal]

A Westbrook trade would definitely bring us the most assets, but if we end up trading with the Lakers I think something like Richardson for Beverly and the Lakers' own '23 second is more likely. I wouldn't scoff at that if we don't have a better deal on the table.

I don't want second round picks. The spurs have enough first round draft picks coming up in the next few years and players curently on the roster that arer as good as or better than 2nd round value that the second round pick won't be an upgrade to anything already on the roster.

[KingKev]

Personally, my preference is for far out picks. We have enough young, mid talent to develop with more in the pipeline. Even last year consolidating and moving up to grab Tari Eason or Jalen Duren would have made sense versus Branham and Wesley.

[rascal]

with how good the draft is looking the Spurs should try to focus on getting another first round pick for the 2023 draft. They might be able to steal somebody talented in the late first round like they usually do

Agree The Spurs should target getting an additional first round pick in 2023.

[mo7888]

Personally, my preference is for far out pics. We have enough young, mid talent to develop with more in the pipeline. Even last year consolidating and moving up to grab Tari Eason or Jalen Duren would have made sense versus Branham and Wesley.

I'm in agreement with this (although adding one other pick top 15 this year would be fine too...then the test should be down the road)...picks in 2026 or later should have better value and elevate our ceiling as a small market team...they are probably more attainable with little to no protections as well.

[JPB]

Always hazardous to make definitive judgements in January about drafts (any time actually) but if you ask me, I'd say early lottery seems to be interesting, with Vic and Scoot as top prizes (Vic as the only surefire). Past 8 or so, no idea.

So yeah, do spurs need and want non lottery/late picks in future drafts? To use them to acquire vet players OK, but to keep them? I don't know, they have a bunch of young guys to develop already and you don't want to end up like OKC or Houston... You can always see what's there and decide to keep or trade the picks I suppose.

[Mr. Body]

Much better than the last draft, talent wise, in that range... in fact the top 6 in this draft probably go #1 in last years draft... but I understand your position...you're more pessimistic than most here when it comes to draft prospects... it is a crap shoot and that breeds certain amount of insecurity..

Fucking ridiculous. Just fucking ridiculous. Always amusing when people fall in love with run and jump guys. Lol, good day.

[mo7888]

Fucking ridiculous. Just fucking ridiculous. Always amusing when people fall in love with run and jump guys. Lol, good day.

Cool story bro...

It's not about falling in love with anyone or any draft...it's about evaluating talent at a particular point in time...I get that its not your thing...but its something I enjoy doing and have done it for years... so don't get your panties wound too tight over it dude..

[scott]

I have a hard time believing Banchero and Chet fall to 7 and 8 if they were in this draft (and I actually don't even like Chet as a prospect, but I still don't think he falls to #8 in this year's draft). TBH they probably go 2 and 3, 3 and 4 at worst.

[mo7888]

I have a hard time believing Banchero and Chet fall to 7 and 8 if they were in this draft (and I actually don't even like Chet as a prospect, but I still don't think he falls to #8 in this year's draft). TBH they probably go 2 and 3, 3 and 4 at worst.

I understand but, that was the consensus at the draft and it hasn't really changed...it won't change until we get closer to this draft and get more data from athletic testing and interviews...

And I don't mean my consensus or the consensus on ST.... it was the consensus among the draft guys that cover these things...

[Mr. Body]

Cool story bro...

It's not about falling in love with anyone or any draft...it's about evaluating talent at a particular point in time...I get that its not your thing...but its something I enjoy doing and have done it for years... so don't get your panties wound too tight over it dude..

Other than Vic none of these guys would make top ten this past draft. Overtime Elite. Lmao.

[Mr. Body]

I have a hard time believing Banchero and Chet fall to 7 and 8 if they were in this draft (and I actually don't even like Chet as a prospect, but I still don't think he falls to #8 in this year's draft). TBH they probably go 2 and 3, 3 and 4 at worst.

Chet, Banchero, Mathurin, Murray Ivey all go before this year's non Wemby players, there's no question.

Daniels probably. I'd take Shaeden Sharpe before Scoot. And I was big on Sochan, who is also better than most of them.

Is to laugh.

[mo7888]

Chet, Banchero, Mathurin, Murray Ivey all go before this year's non Wemby players, there's no question.

Daniels probably. I'd take Shaeden Sharpe before Scoot. And I was big on Sochan, who is also better than most of them.

Is to laugh.

Ok...go with that...and there's nothing wrong with that opinion...but the consensus among the guys that do this for a living concludes something different than you're concluding....

[Mr. Body]

Ok...go with that...and there's nothing wrong with that opinion...but the consensus among the guys that do this for a living concludes something different than you're concluding....

I have seen no such consensus. Anyway, to me there's a grievous error in going in on these Overtime Elite types and players who play on teams that can't win games even in college. If you're playing Overtime Elite or Ignite you might as well just sit the year out.

Evidence? Look at who they've put in the league recently and how massively they're struggling. But go on and clap your hands wildly. I'm sure Tinkerbell will regain her wings.

[Russ]

If both the celtics and spurs are lottery teams the spurs can have two unprotected lottery picks in 2028.

If the Spurs are a lottery team in 2028, something has gone wrong.

[mo7888]

I have seen no such consensus. Anyway, to me there's a grievous error in going in on these Overtime Elite types and players who play on teams that can't win games even in college. If you're playing Overtime Elite or Ignite you might as well just sit the year out.

Evidence? Look at who they've put in the league recently and how massively they're struggling. But go on and clap your hands wildly. I'm sure Tinkerbell will regain her wings.

I understand your concerns about OE...Ignite... they're legitimate.. I'm not going to deny that.... I'm not even going to say that the consensus isn't going to change by draft day because it very well might. There will be athletic testing, psychological testing, interviews etc that will happen between now and then. For instance, Amen Thompson is pretty much a top 4 guy right now and there are assumptions on shooting and chatacter/mentality that figure in that. When he tests he could fall out of the top 10 or pass Scoot for number 2... we don't have the information to draw that conclusion....all we have is where he currently stands with the current information available...

For me, I'm pretty close to the consensus and don't see any reason to deviate from that until I've got more information to use. I've got some from watching game film but, it limited as of now. But more will be coming and my board will probably change some at that point....some always underperform and some overperform... that's the normal course these things take..

[Dejounte]

Consensus said Jabari Smith was the #2 pick but looking like he should have been picked #12 or lower.

[mo7888]

Consensus said Jabari Smith was the #2 pick but looking like he should have been picked #12 or lower.

Sure...but it's irrelevant to the point here...which is where they'll be drafted (or in the case you pointed out...were drafted).... it isn't a debate about whether the consensus is correct or not.... there are always aberrations..

[scott]

I'm not doubting you mo7888, but where are these consensus stories about the top 6 all being better than last year's #1? I'd like to read this.

[Leetonidas]

Consensus said Jabari Smith was the #2 pick but looking like he should have been picked #12 or lower.
Hard to get a good read on him given he plays for a team of selfish chuckers with zero structure or accountability.

Really hope Houston doesnt win the #1 pick this season. They dont deserve it and they'll ruin Wemby

[scott]

Hard to get a good read on him given he plays for a team of selfish chuckers with zero structure or accountability.

Really hope Houston doesnt win the #1 pick this season. They dont deserve it and they'll ruin Wemby

IMO this is a huge storyline to watch. Not only do the Rockets not deserve any more help because 1) they've already gotten two top 4 picks and 2) they've not proven they can do anything with talent AND not only will the ruin Wemby but it will ALSO be a huge embarrassment for Silver who came out and warned teams against tanking. I think you can generally absolve all other teams this year of the egregious tanking that Houston is currently deploying. Pistons and Hornets have had significant injuries (and key players doing felonies), the Spurs have a shit roster but are actually overachieving the W/L column, and the Magic are young and on the ascent. I am surprised that OKC didn't go the full tank route this year with such a prize on the horizon.

[mo7888]

I'm not doubting you mo7888, but where are these consensus stories about the top 6 all being better than last year's #1? I'd like to read this.

They came out around the 2022 draft...comparing it to 2023.... there were several....

[Mr. Body]

Consensus said Jabari Smith was the #2 pick but looking like he should have been picked #12 or lower.

Became a consensus top pick due to media echo chamber. Every college basketball broadcast the commentators were mentioning him as a top 1 or 2 pick and nobody was brave or cared enough to say otherwise. He became a thoughtless media truism, kinda like how Kobe is accepted as the best player of his generation when clearly that's not true.

I was definitely not of the opinion he deserved a top pick. Jabari Smith always had high-level role-player written on him as a ceiling. He was a good outside shooter and a good defender and shotblocker. That's literally all he did. He shot a really miserable percentage inside the arc and I don't think he even rebounded that much.

Meanwhile, Keegan Murray was 'obviously' terrible.

[Mr. Body]

They came out around the 2022 draft...comparing it to 2023.... there were several....

Dude, every single year the draft mavens are going to claim THIS YEAR is COMPLETELY NUTS with talent. That's what drives the clicks and eyeballs.

It's very apparent this is a down year in the draft. May prove otherwise, but the NCAA is really bad this year overall, no break-out players whatsoever, and the rest are OTE, which is a joke, or Ignite, which doesn't produce good pros.

[mo7888]

Dude, every single year the draft mavens are going to claim THIS YEAR is COMPLETELY NUTS with talent. That's what drives the clicks and eyeballs.

It's very apparent this is a down year in the draft. May prove otherwise, but the NCAA is really bad this year overall, no break-out players whatsoever, and the rest are OTE, which is a joke, or Ignite, which doesn't produce good pros.

While there is always hype around the next 'thing', it's kind of absurd to claim this is a down draft.... when it's one of the better one's we've seen in quite some time...

[KingKev]

Counting Jabari Smith out this early is foolish. I’d switch him for Sochan in a heartbeat.

[Mr. Body]

Counting Jabari Smith out this early is foolish. I’d switch him for Sochan in a heartbeat.

That's dumb.

[mo7888]

Counting Jabari Smith out this early is foolish. I’d switch him for Sochan in a heartbeat.

No doubt

[jjspur]

No matter what the draft experts say, every year there are always a few duds taken in the top 10 or lottery. This past year is no different. Some players need more than 1 year in college to develop, and then there are players that take a few years and a different team to develop. It happens pretty much every year and every draft. Then there are top college players that just suck in the NBA. Some talent but mostly hype.

At least we got lucky with Keldon. He wasn't a top 10 pick or lottery pick but in retrospect his stats prove he should have been.

[Chinook]

Counting Jabari Smith out this early is foolish. I’d switch him for Sochan in a heartbeat.

Sochan may well be better, but yeah, Smith would still has an easier path to being what Sochan projects to be.

[TD 21]

I understand but, that was the consensus at the draft and it hasn't really changed...it won't change until we get closer to this draft and get more data from athletic testing and interviews...

And I don't mean my consensus or the consensus on ST.... it was the consensus among the draft guys that cover these things...

Despite not having seen the same, I don't doubt the veracity, but I find it hard to believe Banchero and Holmgren don't go 3-4 in this draft.

[mo7888]

Despite not having seen the same, I don't doubt the veracity, but I find it hard to believe Banchero and Holmgren don't go 3-4 in this draft.

By the time we get to the draft and have more information that very well could be..

[poopbox]

I don't think you quite understand how the swap works, or if you do youre being disingenuous about it. The Spurs don't just get the Celtics pick in 2028, they have the option to swap draft positioning. Removing the #1 protection and actually trading the picks gives us two picks in 2028, not just one. 2028 is a long way away and we have no clue where we or they will be. Netting an unprotected 1st instead of a top-1 protected swap is not just a punt.

Secondly...Toronto gave us a 1st for an expiring, undersized C with no offensive game who is terrible on defense just last year and Poeltl is 10x the player that Young was at the time. A team trading for Poeltl also obtains his bird rights and a contender over the cap can re-sign him above the cap while keeping their MLE. He is definitely worth 2 picks to the right team. Even that bum Mozgov got two firsts back in 2015 iirc.

You are right about the pick, but my point is it's a pick we are likely to at least swap for anyway. Better to get the pick outright sure, but it's still a pick we can swap for anyway. And it's so far in the future its a pick that could mean nothing.

I disagree about Poeltl being "10x the player young is". Poeltl has helped do exactly what in San Antonio? Nothing. He hasn't help us win a playoff series, or even a playoff game, or even make the playoffs. He has done nothing to stop us from having a historically bad defense. He does nothing for us on offense but set screens, and you don't need to pay a center his salary to do that.

Talking about what Mozgov got in 2015 is completely irrelevant to what Poeltl can get in 2023. NBA was damn near a different sports back then. Mozgov also played in the nba finals...something I doubt Poeltl ever does unless he is sitting on the bench of a championship team.

It's not that hard to believe tbh

[poopbox]

No matter what the draft experts say, every year there are always a few duds taken in the top 10 or lottery. This past year is no different. Some players need more than 1 year in college to develop, and then there are players that take a few years and a different team to develop. It happens pretty much every year and every draft. Then there are top college players that just suck in the NBA. Some talent but mostly hype.

At least we got lucky with Keldon. He wasn't a top 10 pick or lottery pick but in retrospect his stats prove he should have been.

Good point. Cam Reddish is on his way out the league and was a top 10 pick.

[Maddog]

No matter what the draft experts say, every year there are always a few duds taken in the top 10 or lottery. This past year is no different. Some players need more than 1 year in college to develop, and then there are players that take a few years and a different team to develop. It happens pretty much every year and every draft. Then there are top college players that just suck in the NBA. Some talent but mostly hype.

At least we got lucky with Keldon. He wasn't a top 10 pick or lottery pick but in retrospect his stats prove he should have been.

In the 2019 class
Keldon ranked 8 mp, 6 ppg, 3 rpg and 11 in WS

[rascal]

Trade to land Shaedon Sharpe

Sa: gets Sharpe + S. Barnes + O Porter
Portland: gets Og Anunoby
Toronto: gets Poeltl + Keldon Johnson + Josh Hart + 2025 first round from Portland + 2027 lottery protected from Portland

Portland gets another star to win now
Toronto gets a nice return for Og Anunoby
Spurs rebuilding for the future

[KingKev]

Trade to land Shaedon Sharpe

Sa: gets Sharpe + S. Barnes + O Porter
Portland: gets Og Anunoby
Toronto: gets Poeltl + Keldon Johnson + Josh Hart + 2025 first round from Portland + 2027 lottery protected from Portland

Portland gets another star to win now
Toronto gets a nice return for Og Anunoby
Spurs rebuilding for the future

They aren’t selling Barnes for that.

[scott]

Trade to land Shaedon Sharpe

Sa: gets Sharpe + S. Barnes + O Porter
Portland: gets Og Anunoby
Toronto: gets Poeltl + Keldon Johnson + Josh Hart + 2025 first round from Portland + 2027 lottery protected from Portland

Portland gets another star to win now
Toronto gets a nice return for Og Anunoby
Spurs rebuilding for the future

I do it if I'm the Spurs, but I doubt Portland or Toronto are down.

[exstatic]

Good point. Cam Reddish is on his way out the league and was a top 10 pick.

Stanley Johnson was in the gleague when we called, and he was drafted 8th.

[Mr. Body]

Shaeden Sharpe is by at least one metric the 6th worst defender in the league. Portland shouldn't trade him, and won't. Anyway, rascal, go watch the Blazers. Clearly you're in love with him. Just get League Pass and watch those awful Portland games.

[KingKev]

Shaeden Sharpe is by at least one metric the 6th worst defender in the league. Portland shouldn't trade him, and won't. Anyway, rascal, go watch the Blazers. Clearly you're in love with him. Just get League Pass and watch those awful Portland games.

He’d fit in well with our “young core”

[Mr. Body]

He’d fit in well with our “young core”

It's hard enough teaching these players basketball. Imagine having a guy who didn't even bother to play for an entire year.

[rascal]

It's hard enough teaching these players basketball. Imagine having a guy who didn't even bother to play for an entire year.

The spurs aren't trying to win now. They are in rebuilding mode. That's why Portland may be willing to trade him if they land a proven star because their window is two or three years with Dame. Spurs need to make sure to have the best odds possible to land a top two pick this year. Sharpe has a great future.

You'd be a fool to turn down a trade like that if it were on the table.

[spurraider21]

He’d fit in well with our “young core”
that bad, huh

[exstatic]

Shaeden Sharpe is by at least one metric the 6th worst defender in the league. Portland shouldn't trade him, and won't. Anyway, rascal, go watch the Blazers. Clearly you're in love with him. Just get League Pass and watch those awful Portland games.

His WS/48 is .036. If you’re not familiar with that stat, well it’s awful. His VORP is -0.6. You could literally grab a guard off waivers that would outperform him, but DUNKS, I guess.

Stanley Johnson is outperforming him in almost every area, WS/48 .120, VORP +0.2, 3G% .484, and we pulled him out of the gleague. I was the BIGGEST Stan non Stan on this board, and the crow actually tastes pretty good.

[KingKev]

His WS/48 is .036. If you’re not familiar with that stat, well it’s awful. His VORP is -0.6. You could literally grab a guard off waivers that would outperform him, but DUNKS, I guess.

Stanley Johnson is outperforming him in almost every area, WS/48 .120, VORP +0.2, 3G% .484, and we pulled him out of the gleague. I was the BIGGEST Stan non Stan on this board, and the crow actually tastes pretty good.

lol Sprinkles looks pretty shite also

[scott]

His WS/48 is .036. If you’re not familiar with that stat, well it’s awful. His VORP is -0.6. You could literally grab a guard off waivers that would outperform him, but DUNKS, I guess.

Stanley Johnson is outperforming him in almost every area, WS/48 .120, VORP +0.2, 3G% .484, and we pulled him out of the gleague. I was the BIGGEST Stan non Stan on this board, and the crow actually tastes pretty good.

I'm not that into Sharpe by any means, but is still a raw rookie... but this advanced stats aren't that much worse than Keldon's this season.

[scott]

lol Sprinkles looks pretty shite also

His (Sochan) WS/48 is .007. If you’re not familiar with that stat, well it’s awful. His VORP is -0.6. You could literally grab a forward off waivers that would outperform him, but DUNKS, I guess.

Lonnie Walker is outperforming him in almost every area, WS/48 .0.64, VORP +0.1, 3G% .384, and not even the Spurs wanted him.

[KingKev]

His (Sochan) WS/48 is .007. If you’re not familiar with that stat, well it’s awful. His VORP is -0.6. You could literally grab a forward off waivers that would outperform him, but DUNKS, I guess.

Lonnie Walker is outperforming him in almost every area, WS/48 .0.64, VORP +0.1, 3G% .384, and not even the Spurs wanted him.

Haha i’m not a big advanced analytics guy but I think Sharpe passes the eye test. So does Sochan. Small sample size to be going too deep into the numbers.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not that into Sharpe by any means, but is still a raw rookie... but this advanced stats aren't that much worse than Keldon's this season.

Down low, though? Keldon's a bad player.

Sochan and Sharpe are both fine. Time will tell on Sharpe -- he has the same background as Jalen Green and Kuminga, i.e. no basketball instruction whatsoever, so what does he have to build on? Sochan clearly understands the game better at this point.

[offset formation]

His (Sochan) WS/48 is .007. If you’re not familiar with that stat, well it’s awful. His VORP is -0.6. You could literally grab a forward off waivers that would outperform him, but DUNKS, I guess.

Lonnie Walker is outperforming him in almost every area, WS/48 .0.64, VORP +0.1, 3G% .384, and not even the Spurs wanted him.

DAYUM.

[Mr. Body]

What are Sochan's advanced numbers since changing his shot? He's not the player he was two or three months ago.

[Leetonidas]

Rookies very rarely have positive advanced metrics. Especially not a historically bad team. Win shares are kinda pointless in terms of evaluating him right now

I suspect you'd see more impact from Sochan if he was playing next to LeBron and AD too

[scott]

The point wasn't really to knock Sochan. I think most of here would agree that he is coming along nicely and I'm not sure there are too many saying we missed that pick by any means. My point was just to highlight how absurd ex's out-of-context stat grabbing was.

[Spursfanfromafar]

His (Sochan) WS/48 is .007. If you’re not familiar with that stat, well it’s awful. His VORP is -0.6. You could literally grab a forward off waivers that would outperform him, but DUNKS, I guess.

Lonnie Walker is outperforming him in almost every area, WS/48 .0.64, VORP +0.1, 3G% .384, and not even the Spurs wanted him.

Box scores only advanced stats arent as much as worthy as plus minus driven ones are. And Sochan's numbers compare well with other rookies and sophomores in RAPTOR and other such advanced metrics.

[Big Empty]

We better take what we can get. Purtle’s stat line last night was horrible

[KingKev]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10063063-celtics-rumors-jakob-poeltl-trade-with-spurs-considered-unlikely-before-deadline

I fee like Jak’s value is dropping by the day. We definitely missed the boat to trade him for decent value. He is a lightly protected FRP at best at this point and if that is on the table we should jump at it.

If we pay him 4yrs/80mm we are going to regret it.

[slick'81]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10063063-celtics-rumors-jakob-poeltl-trade-with-spurs-considered-unlikely-before-deadline

I fee like Jak’s value is dropping by the day. We definitely missed the boat to trade him for decent value. He is a lightly protected FRP at best at this point and if that is on the table we should jump at it.

If we pay him 4yrs/80mm we are going to regret it.


yea,something tells me spurs dont want any part of a jak extension. They definitely didn't get the offer they wanted for poodle power

[Drom John]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR , 646 minutes minumum (their default)

Bottom Six
#245 -1.5 Will Barton, Shaedon Sharpe, Jabari Smith Jr.
#248 -1.6 Jaden Ivey
#249 -1.8 Malaki Branham, P.J. Washington

[cd98]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10063063-celtics-rumors-jakob-poeltl-trade-with-spurs-considered-unlikely-before-deadline

I fee like Jak’s value is dropping by the day. We definitely missed the boat to trade him for decent value. He is a lightly protected FRP at best at this point and if that is on the table we should jump at it.

If we pay him 4yrs/80mm we are going to regret it.

Eh, I don't think so. Sure, one or two bad games happen. But over a season, he is a highly effective center for today's NBA. He can guard on the perimeter. He can switch and guard smaller, quicker players at least competently. He is a high quality passer. And he is unselfish and plays his role. He is a good offensive rebounder and he is starting to punish teams when they rotate smaller players on him in the post. If he had a three point shot, he'd be elite. Tbh, I hope the Spurs keep him. I think he could be a key part of a championship team. Not as the numbers 1-3 best players, but he is definitely good enough to be the center on a championship team. And I just like what he contributes to the Spurs on and off the court. But if we get two 1st round picks and one is unprotected, then a rebuild team can't pass that up.

[KingKev]

Eh, I don't think so. Sure, one or two bad games happen. But over a season, he is a highly effective center for today's NBA. He can guard on the perimeter. He can switch and guard smaller, quicker players at least competently. He is a high quality passer. And he is unselfish and plays his role. He is a good offensive rebounder and he is starting to punish teams when they rotate smaller players on him in the post. If he had a three point shot, he'd be elite. Tbh, I hope the Spurs keep him. I think he could be a key part of a championship team. Not as the numbers 1-3 best players, but he is definitely good enough to be the center on a championship team. And I just like what he contributes to the Spurs on and off the court. But if we get two 1st round picks and one is unprotected, then a rebuild team can't pass that up.

I like Jak and think he is solid. Having a bit of a down season but relative to last year but I think that is us missing what DJM brought. DJM made Jak’s life much easier.

Still I don’t like paying him top dollar for a role playing center. If it’s a front-loaded contract as you have suggested it makes more sense but i’d rather just wish him luck at 20/yr. The good thing is that few teams will have outright cap to sign him so hopefully we can get something to help facilitate his next deal via S&T.

[Mr. Body]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10063063-celtics-rumors-jakob-poeltl-trade-with-spurs-considered-unlikely-before-deadline

I fee like Jak’s value is dropping by the day. We definitely missed the boat to trade him for decent value. He is a lightly protected FRP at best at this point and if that is on the table we should jump at it.

If we pay him 4yrs/80mm we are going to regret it.

The NBA isn't like the stock market where player values go up and down according to each game.

[Mr. Body]

I like Jak and think he is solid. Having a bit of a down season but relative to last year but I think that is us missing what DJM brought. DJM made Jak’s life much easier.

Still I don’t like paying him top dollar for a role playing center. If it’s a front-loaded contract as you have suggested it makes more sense but i’d rather just wish him luck at 20/yr. The good thing is that few teams will have outright cap to sign him so hopefully we can get something to help facilitate his next deal via S&T.

Isn't the MLE projected to be like $15m next year?

[KingKev]

The NBA isn't like the stock market where player values go up and down according to each game.

Nothing todo with his performance last night. I just don’t believe the hype around his perceived value.

[KingKev]

Isn't the MLE projected to be like $15m next year?

Nope.

[John B]

Zollins have been playing very well, averaging almost 11pts and 6 rebs per game in 21mins the last 10 games, about 15pts average the last 10 games. He could very well be Poeltl’s replacement as starting C. While Zollins needs to cut down on fouls, but only because he defends every-single-time, but he spreads the floor better. I think Zollins’ development is making it easier for the Spurs to part with Jak, and could make Spurs aggressively shop Jak around.

[baseline bum]

Anyone scoffing a 4 year, $80 million deal on Poetl is nuts. That would be starting around $18 million next year, which is Marcus Morris or Derrick White money. $18 million out of a $134 million cap ain't bad at all for a quality starting center. If he tells the team he wants to be back and they believe him, then it would be retarded to sell low on him for something like one protected first.

[baseline bum]

Isn't the MLE projected to be like $15m next year?

About $11.5 million starting, for 4 years, $49 million factoring in 4.5% raises.

[Ariel]

I like Jak and think he is solid. Having a bit of a down season but relative to last year but I think that is us missing what DJM brought. DJM made Jak’s life much easier.

Still I don’t like paying him top dollar for a role playing center. If it’s a front-loaded contract as you have suggested it makes more sense but i’d rather just wish him luck at 20/yr. The good thing is that few teams will have outright cap to sign him so hopefully we can get something to help facilitate his next deal via S&T.
I agree with pretty much all of this, so I'd ask who is going to throw 20M at him? I don't see many teams able (i.e. under the cap) AND willing to do that, if any at all. Maybe Indiana if they trade/lose Myles Turner, and perhaps OKC? The rest would require a S&T, we have as strong a position as anyone, so if there's interest we'll get one pick at the very least, and if there isn't I don't see how he's going to get that 20M figure that's being talked about.

[Ariel]

Anyone scoffing a 4 year, $80 million deal on Poetl is nuts. That would be starting around $18 million next year, which is Marcus Morris or Derrick White money. $18 million out of a $134 million cap ain't bad at all for a quality starting center. If he tells the team he wants to be back and they believe him, then it would be retarded to sell low on him for something like one protected first.
Which non star center is getting that kind of money? Not Robert Williams, not Mitchell Robinson... maybe Clint Capella is the most overpaid. Myles Turner might get it due to his ability to shoot 3s at a high clip and space the floor, but really don't see any team losing sleep over Poeltl.

[Mr. Body]

About $11.5 million starting, for 4 years, $49 million factoring in 4.5% raises.

Yeah, so what Poeltl is looking for is really cheap. I'm reminded at how Timvp and others freaked out at Poeltl's current deal thinking it was too much. Hilarious times.

[Mr. Body]

Which non star center is getting that kind of money? Not Robert Williams, not Mitchell Robinson... maybe Clint Capella is the most overpaid. Myles Turner might get it due to his ability to shoot 3s at a high clip and space the floor, but really don't see any team losing sleep over Poeltl.

Poeltl is straight up better than Robert Williams and Mitchell Robinson. And that's when they're on the floor. In addition to being better, Poeltl also barely misses games.

[KingKev]

Yeah, so what Poeltl is looking for is really cheap. I'm reminded at how Timvp and others freaked out at Poeltl's current deal thinking it was too much. Hilarious times.

It is all downside risk. The only argument for paying him that is that we have to allocate capital somewhere. We really need to use one of our many incoming draft pics on a replacement big. Zollins can fill the void while we rebuild.

[baseline bum]

Which non star center is getting that kind of money? Not Robert Williams, not Mitchell Robinson... maybe Clint Capella is the most overpaid. Myles Turner might get it due to his ability to shoot 3s at a high clip and space the floor, but really don't see any team losing sleep over Poeltl.

You forgot Nurkic, Vucevic, and Allen who make similar money for similar production, and then guys like Ayton, Porzingis, and Gobert who make way more. Spurs aren't in a position to just be giving good players like Poetl away, especially with how shitty Keldon has been this year.

[baseline bum]

It is all downside risk. The only argument for paying him that is that we have to allocate capital somewhere. We really need to use one of our many incoming draft pics on a replacement big. Zollins can fill the void while we rebuild.

The argument for paying him is he's probably the second most talented player on the team and even if you land Wembanyama you can't throw Sochan plus ten bags of crap around him and expect to get anywhere.

[Ariel]

Poeltl is straight up better than Robert Williams and Mitchell Robinson. And that's when they're on the floor. In addition to being better, Poeltl also barely misses games.
More reliable than Robert Williams, sure. But to pretend Poeltl is a tier above Robert Williams when healthy is laughable, that's Spurs' bias speaking. He's better than Mitchell Robinson at this point in time, but he's also 3 years older. Poeltl is a good starting caliber center (above average), but can't shoot FTs, let alone 3s. He'd have a hard time closing games in a playoff series, for instance. That's not the most sought after center archetype these days, to the point where teams will allocate a big chunk of their salary cap to him. Maybe someone overpays, sure, it happens all the time. But it's not guaranteed, and certainly not advisable.

[KingKev]

The argument for paying him is he's probably the second most talented player on the team and even if you land Wembanyama you can't throw Sochan plus ten bags of crap around him and expect to get anywhere.

Second most talented player on the least talented team in the NBA.

I actually do expect to throw a horrible roster around our next few lottery picks. Those writings are already on the wall and it probably is the best strategy so we can secure 3-5 years worth of high lottery picks to stand a chance. Even Wemby won’t move the needle his first few years with this roster.

[cd98]

Zollins have been playing very well, averaging almost 11pts and 6 rebs per game in 21mins the last 10 games, about 15pts average the last 10 games. He could very well be Poeltl’s replacement as starting C. While Zollins needs to cut down on fouls, but only because he defends every-single-time, but he spreads the floor better. I think Zollins’ development is making it easier for the Spurs to part with Jak, and could make Spurs aggressively shop Jak around.

See Collins has a great three point shot for a center, but he doesn't have the mobility like Poeltl on defense. I still like Collins for the price tag, though.

[The Truth #6]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR , 646 minutes minumum (their default)

Bottom Six
#245 -1.5 Will Barton, Shaedon Sharpe, Jabari Smith Jr.
#248 -1.6 Jaden Ivey
#249 -1.8 Malaki Branham, P.J. Washington

He’s right there with some top ten draft picks. Nice!

[Ariel]

You forgot Nurkic, Vucevic, and Allen who make similar money for similar production, and then guys like Ayton, Porzingis, and Gobert who make way more. Spurs aren't in a position to just be giving good players like Poetl away, especially with how shitty Keldon has been this year.
I didn't forget any of those, I purposefully left them out because they're not comparable.
Gobert is a perennial DPOY and multiple times all NBA and all Star.
Vucevic was a multiple times all star who averaged close to 20 & 10 for half a decade (he's just washed now).
Ayton lives off of his promise and former no. 1 status, the Suns reluctantly matched because they couldn't afford to lose him as an asset.
Allen is better, younger, and even made an all star team.
Porzingis is an entirely different player, he's not a traditional center at all, so his name makes no sense in this list.
Nurkic is the only one you mentioned who I'd take Poeltl over, but his contract is a burden and I certainly wouldn't advocate giving an average center a big contract using him as an example.
At the end of the day, Poeltl is a good player (better than average starting center) but I'd be careful to give him a huge contract simply because we're just horrible. At 16M/17M per year he's probably worth, much more than that and he might turn into a burden in a couple of years.

[The Truth #6]

Nothing todo with his performance last night. I just don’t believe the hype around his perceived value.

I think it’s Boston or Toronto or basically nobody in my opinion. He needs to go to a team where they don’t need a star and they are at least in their eyes somewhat close to competing. But if it’s like most teams where there’s a typical star player, there’s no way they’re gonna push for yak to be on the team. It’s not like they’re going to peruse through advanced metrics and come to that conclusion. My gut feeling is most typical NBA stars don’t think much at all of yak. I’m not saying this to say that he is a bad player but I don’t think most players or teams are going to appreciate his, how should we say, nuance?

[Mr. Body]

More reliable than Robert Williams, sure. But to pretend Poeltl is a tier above Robert Williams when healthy is laughable, that's Spurs' bias speaking. He's better than Mitchell Robinson at this point in time, but he's also 3 years older. Poeltl is a good starting caliber center (above average), but can't shoot FTs, let alone 3s. He'd have a hard time closing games in a playoff series, for instance. That's not the most sought after center archetype these days, to the point where teams will allocate a big chunk of their salary cap to him. Maybe someone overpays, sure, it happens all the time. But it's not guaranteed, and certainly not advisable.

Poeltl is without a doubt better than Robert Williams.

[Ariel]

Poeltl is without a doubt better than Robert Williams.
OK, you convinced me.

[JPB]

We're not really comparing Poetl with Gobert, are we?

And not only have I no problem having a Wemby/Sochan FC, but that's what I would do, if you consider Jeremy have to start and you're not gonna give Poetl 80/4 to be a back up.

[The Truth #6]

I think the Spurs consider victor a power forward and not a center, at least, according to TimVPs article that one time.

[baseline bum]

More reliable than Robert Williams, sure. But to pretend Poeltl is a tier above Robert Williams when healthy is laughable, that's Spurs' bias speaking. He's better than Mitchell Robinson at this point in time, but he's also 3 years older. Poeltl is a good starting caliber center (above average), but can't shoot FTs, let alone 3s. He'd have a hard time closing games in a playoff series, for instance. That's not the most sought after center archetype these days, to the point where teams will allocate a big chunk of their salary cap to him. Maybe someone overpays, sure, it happens all the time. But it's not guaranteed, and certainly not advisable.

$18 million is not a big chunk of a $134 million salary cap. You're acting like I'm saying bring him back at $30 million.

[scott]

More reliable than Robert Williams, sure. But to pretend Poeltl is a tier above Robert Williams when healthy is laughable, that's Spurs' bias speaking. He's better than Mitchell Robinson at this point in time, but he's also 3 years older. Poeltl is a good starting caliber center (above average), but can't shoot FTs, let alone 3s. He'd have a hard time closing games in a playoff series, for instance. That's not the most sought after center archetype these days, to the point where teams will allocate a big chunk of their salary cap to him. Maybe someone overpays, sure, it happens all the time. But it's not guaranteed, and certainly not advisable.

This is why I could see some teams more interested in Collins over Jak, not to mention that Collins is under contract next season (team option). If a team is looking for a contributing (20 min/game) backup C, Collins is the better buy.

[BackHome]

Second most talented player on the least talented team in the NBA.

I actually do expect to throw a horrible roster around our next few lottery picks. Those writings are already on the wall and it probably is the best strategy so we can secure 3-5 years worth of high lottery picks to stand a chance. Even Wemby won’t move the needle his first few years with this roster.

Agreed, it is going to take a minimum of 3 years of getting top 6 picks to upgrade our talent pool. I am OK signing Poodle for cheap if we can not get a decent trade this year. If we can not then I am looking at moving him in 2025

[mo7888]

I think it’s Boston or Toronto or basically nobody in my opinion. He needs to go to a team where they don’t need a star and they are at least in their eyes somewhat close to competing. But if it’s like most teams where there’s a typical star player, there’s no way they’re gonna push for yak to be on the team. It’s not like they’re going to peruse through advanced metrics and come to that conclusion. My gut feeling is most typical NBA stars don’t think much at all of yak. I’m not saying this to say that he is a bad player but I don’t think most players or teams are going to appreciate his, how should we say, nuance?

I think Toronto or Phoenix and my dark horse team is the Lakers..

[exstatic]

More reliable than Robert Williams, sure. But to pretend Poeltl is a tier above Robert Williams when healthy is laughable, that's Spurs' bias speaking. He's better than Mitchell Robinson at this point in time, but he's also 3 years older. Poeltl is a good starting caliber center (above average), but can't shoot FTs, let alone 3s. He'd have a hard time closing games in a playoff series, for instance. That's not the most sought after center archetype these days, to the point where teams will allocate a big chunk of their salary cap to him. Maybe someone overpays, sure, it happens all the time. But it's not guaranteed, and certainly not advisable.

The best ability is AVAILability.

You haven’t seen him shoot FTs lately, have you? He’ll have no problem closing games. If he had adapted the mostly one handed method at the beginning of the year, he’d be at about 70% r/n.

[KingKev]

The best ability is AVAILability.

You haven’t seen him shoot FTs lately, have you? He’ll have no problem closing games. If he had adapted the mostly one handed method at the beginning of the year, he’d be at about 70% r/n.

You forget to take your pills gramps?

[RC_Drunkford]

Poeltl fits next to Wemby. Also fits with Scoot. If you can get a good haul trade him, if not resign him

[Mr. Body]

OK, you convinced me.

Lol, you can believe whatever the hell you want. Jakob Poeltl has four inches height over Robert Williams, is bigger, stronger. He is much more durable. The only thing Williams does better is block shots, although only .4 more per 36 minutes. Williams was a much better shotblocker than he is now. Their rebounding is a wash. Poeltl is a much better scorer, while Williams is more of a dunk-spot guy. Poeltl blows him away as a facilitator and he gets half again as many steals.

There's honestly not much of a comparison. Williams cannot stay healthy, is much smaller (PF sized), cannot facilitate the same way. Unless you're paying the Boston Celtics premium (e.g. media bias), Poeltl is the player you'd want every single time.

[KingKev]

Lol, you can believe whatever the hell you want. Jakob Poeltl has four inches height over Robert Williams, is bigger, stronger. He is much more durable. The only thing Williams does better is block shots, although only .4 more per 36 minutes. Williams was a much better shotblocker than he is now. Their rebounding is a wash. Poeltl is a much better scorer, while Williams is more of a dunk-spot guy. Poeltl blows him away as a facilitator and he gets half again as many steals.


There's honestly not much of a comparison. Williams cannot stay healthy, is much smaller (PF sized), cannot facilitate the same way. Unless you're paying the Boston Celtics premium (e.g. media bias), Poeltl is the player you'd want every single time.

When you are this close to perennial contention you should actually want BOTH.

[JPB]

I think the Spurs consider victor a power forward and not a center, at least, according to TimVPs article that one time.

Sure but he'd still be a rim protector and a Wemby/Sochan "small ball" combo (hilarious with a 7'5 guy) would offer a serious dilemma to opponents...

Did you see how quick Wemby can read and recover from the perimeter to come and block guys going for the lay-up thanks to his pterodactyl arms... That's another unique skill he possesses, he doesn't have to be as close as any normal big to block someone, reason why they often don't see the block coming or even possible...

Just add a couple 3 point shooters around and man, there's nothing for the opponent to stop that. And again, if you play Wemby with Poetl, that means you let Sochan on the bench.

[The Truth #6]

Sure but he'd still be a rim protector and a Wemby/Sochan "small ball" combo (hilarious with a 7'5 guy) would offer a serious dilemma to opponents...

Did you see how quick Wemby can read and recover from the perimeter to come and block guys going for the lay-up thanks to his pterodactyl arms... That's another unique skill he possesses, he doesn't have to be as close as any normal big to block someone, reason why they often don't see the block coming or even possible...

Just add a couple 3 point shooters around and man, there's nothing for the opponent to stop that. And again, if you play Wemby with Poetl, that means you let Sochan on the bench.

I’ve heard this Victor character is pretty good. Ha. Yes. Absolutely. Victor and Jeremy. Vassel and Keldon as less creators and more spot up shooters, but we still need a player to break things down. Jones is great at minimizing turnovers but not great at actually distributing, at least not any sort of high level. So we’re still another draft away in this fantasy scenario.

Edit: Unless Wesley somehow explodes. Statistically, that’s probably a low chance, it may be better than an 18% chance of getting Victor.

Anyway.

[TD 21]

As usual, the Poeltl discourse sways too far in either direction.

Trade him at all costs. This team needs as many assets and "bites at the apple" as it can get.

He's not a "good fit next to Wembanyama" because the third big in this hypothetical, Sochan, also can't shoot which means the guy who's development should take precedence would be relegated to mostly floor spacer and it's still unclear what caliber of shooter he is.

Even if he were a "good fit next to Wembanyama", who cares? This team would still need at least another top tier pick and having Collins/Bassey eat a combined 30 something mpg would help with that.

Center has never been more saturated, it's the easiest position to find competent play out of, they should have ample opportunity at myriad ones with their own picks going forward and as solid as Poeltl is, there's nothing special or unique about him.

[KingKev]

As usual, the Poeltl discourse sways too far in either direction.

Trade him at all costs. This team needs as many assets and "bites at the apple" as it can get.

He's not a "good fit next to Wembanyama" because the third big in this hypothetical, Sochan, also can't shoot which means the guy who's development should take precedence would be relegated to mostly floor spacer and it's still unclear what caliber of shooter he is.

Even if he were a "good fit next to Wembanyama", who cares? This team would still need at least another top tier pick and having Collins/Bassey eat a combined 30 something mpg would help with that.

Center has never been more saturated, it's the easiest position to find competent play out of, they should have ample opportunity at myriad ones with their own picks going forward and as solid as Poeltl is, there's nothing special or unique about him.

Love busting your balls but this is spot on. My sentiments exactly.

[Seventyniner]

imo it's silly to worry about how Poeltl and Sochan fit with Wenbayama. The Spurs only have a maximum of a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick. Get all the assets you can for Poeltl now, bird in the hand etc.

[John B]

I think Collins is a better fit with Victor, as Collins can space the floor for Victor to operate. Whereas Poeltl’s defender could clog the lane for Victor.

[KingKev]

I think Collins is a better fit with Victor, as Collins can space the floor for Victor to operate. Whereas Poeltl’s defender could clog the lane for Victor.

I’m pretty sure PATFO aren’t getting this granular given we have a small chance of getting Victor to begin with.

[baseline bum]

I didn't forget any of those, I purposefully left them out because they're not comparable.
Gobert is a perennial DPOY and multiple times all NBA and all Star.
Vucevic was a multiple times all star who averaged close to 20 & 10 for half a decade (he's just washed now).
Ayton lives off of his promise and former no. 1 status, the Suns reluctantly matched because they couldn't afford to lose him as an asset.
Allen is better, younger, and even made an all star team.
Porzingis is an entirely different player, he's not a traditional center at all, so his name makes no sense in this list.
Nurkic is the only one you mentioned who I'd take Poeltl over, but his contract is a burden and I certainly wouldn't advocate giving an average center a big contract using him as an example.
At the end of the day, Poeltl is a good player (better than average starting center) but I'd be careful to give him a huge contract simply because we're just horrible. At 16M/17M per year he's probably worth, much more than that and he might turn into a burden in a couple of years.

3 million of a ~$140-150 million cap is make or break? So you want to excuse overpaying for Ayton to keep him as an asset but not paying Poetl a reasonable market value contract to keep him as an asset? Also Gobert is statistically very similar to Poetl now, don't care what he did in the past in Utah. You got him on your allstar team this year?

[TD 21]

Collins' jack of all trades, master of non type style is a better fit since it'd make it easier to plumb the depth's of Wembanyama's versatility.

The idea would be to make Wembanyama the day one centerpiece of the offense, not some stay-in-your-lane finisher like most of these other hybrid bigs.

[John B]

I’m pretty sure PATFO aren’t getting this granular given we have a small chance of getting Victor to begin with.

My favorite passtime is doing simulation in Tankathon, where Spurs got #1 overall on 1st try today :lol

[baseline bum]

imo it's silly to worry about how Poeltl and Sochan fit with Wenbayama. The Spurs only have a maximum of a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick. Get all the assets you can for Poeltl now, bird in the hand etc.

Poeltl is the bird in the hand if he wants to stay. Gonna have a hard time getting a better player than him with a pick outside the lottery. If he says he wants out to play for a contender then yeah gotta move him for whatever you can get. But if he wants to be here I'd rather pay him than trade him for a middling pick. It's not like the Spurs would be looking at the luxury tax any time in the life of a Poeltl contract and capspace means shit when you're an undesirable market to FA and a shitty team.

[Ariel]

3 million of a ~$140-150 million cap is make or break? So you want to excuse overpaying for Ayton to keep him as an asset but not paying Poetl a reasonable market value contract to keep him as an asset? Also Gobert is statistically very similar to Poetl now, don't care what he did in the past in Utah. You got him on your allstar team this year?
I think you lost track of the original argument, which was "Which non star center is getting that kind of money?". My point was that it was very hard for non star centers to get top money, and I cited the couple most recent centers that came to mind: Robert Williams (12M per year on average) & Mitchell Robinson (15M per year on average).
Then you started to bring up a lot of other players, such as Gobert, Vucevic, Porzingis, but that comparison doesn't hold because at the time those contracts were signed, every one of them was significantly more accomplished that Poeltl is today, even if today they've lost a step (or several). If they entered free agency right now, none of them would be getting anywhere near as much as they did.
The most recent example of a non star center getting top money is Ayton, but I brought to your attention the circumstances under which he signed that contract (remember the Suns were on the verge of not signing him as a result, and he's perceived as being grossly overpaid throughout the league).
My point isn't that the Spurs SHOULDN'T sign Poeltl, but rather that they shouldn't IF IT'S AT THE EXPENSE OF HIM BECOMING A NEGATIVE ASSET as a result. And, again, if he's getting paid significantly more than players at his position and archetype (which is losing ground season after season) and similar level (give or take), then you have to wonder at what point it's worth it to sign him at any cost.
The argument of the difference being 3M is misleading, because you may consider it a small step, but in 4 years with raises that may amount to 14M, and that IS significant to his value as an asset, because say a contending team is interested in him, they're likely over the cap, and the total cost could end up 4x as much, which actually CAN break a deal. And that influences his value as an asset.
In short, it's not that I desperately want to drop Poeltl, but overpaying for older players in a career year is a dangerous proposition, and I'd hate for us to be so blinded by the idea of losing him, that we end up signing him to a contract that renders him untradeable a la John Collins, which could end up much worse.

[exstatic]

I’ve heard this Victor character is pretty good. Ha. Yes. Absolutely. Victor and Jeremy. Vassel and Keldon as less creators and more spot up shooters, but we still need a player to break things down. Jones is great at minimizing turnovers but not great at actually distributing, at least not any sort of high level. So we’re still another draft away in this fantasy scenario.

Edit: Unless Wesley somehow explodes. Statistically, that’s probably a low chance, it may be better than an 18% chance of getting Victor.

Anyway.

Just noticing Blake’s stats in Austin since his return, and I think the PG experiment could be over. He had zero and three assists the last two box scores I checked.

[Ariel]

The best ability is AVAILability.
That's not the point I was making, but rather that they're comparable players and as such there's no reason Poeltl should get twice as much as Robert Williams did just a year ago, which predates his latest series of troubling injuries.

You haven’t seen him shoot FTs lately, have you? He’ll have no problem closing games. If he had adapted the mostly one handed method at the beginning of the year, he’d be at about 70% r/n.
Disregarding 8 years of his career in favor of a handful of games, and pretending that's an unequivocal predictor of future performance at the line, is borderline idiotic to say the least. By that token you could look at any fluctuation in patterns and drawing whatever conclusion you want. I thought you were smarter than this.

[DPG21920]

Poeltl is the bird in the hand if he wants to stay. Gonna have a hard time getting a better player than him with a pick outside the lottery. If he says he wants out to play for a contender then yeah gotta move him for whatever you can get. But if he wants to be here I'd rather pay him than trade him for a middling pick. It's not like the Spurs would be looking at the luxury tax any time in the life of a Poeltl contract and capspace means shit when you're an undesirable market to FA and a shitty team.

I get it - BUT SA needs to think looooooong and hard if they want to pay a Center; albeit a very good player, 20-25M a year in this league. Especially when you aren’t winning or contending.

I like Jakob and if we can move Zach+Doug for picks then I definitely am ok keeping Jak since it makes his first new year free (money that was going to Zach + Doug just gets re-routed to Jak). But paying someone 20-25M on a losing team I am not sure is so wise. You can trade him now vs possibly running risk of a deal looking really not so great potentially. It’s just a risk; even if it may be a small one.

I am just not a fan of paying guys on the older side of a rebuild 20M+, even if we have cap space, unless you are going to make a leap in the first 2 years of their deal. Especially a Center.

But if you can move Doug & Zach - hell ya keep Jakob unless it’s a great deal.

But getting even one fully unprotected pick I think would be VERY hard to turn down IMVHO (even the one from BOS where the swap gets turned into a straight up pick to us and maybe a 2nd rounder too) and I really do like Jak

[mo7888]

I get it - BUT SA needs to think looooooong and hard if they want to pay a Center; albeit a very good player, 20-25M a year in this league. Especially when you aren’t winning or contending.

I like Jakob and if we can move Zach+Doug for picks then I definitely am ok keeping Jak since it makes his first new year free (money that was going to Zach + Doug just gets re-routed to Jak). But paying someone 20-25M on a losing team I am not sure is so wise. You can trade him now vs possibly running risk of a deal looking really not so great potentially. It’s just a risk; even if it may be a small one.

I am just not a fan of paying guys on the older side of a rebuild 20M+, even if we have cap space, unless you are going to make a leap in the first 2 years of their deal. Especially a Center.

But if you can move Doug & Zach - hell ya keep Jakob unless it’s a great deal.

But getting even one fully unprotected pick I think would be VERY hard to turn down IMVHO (even the one from BOS where the swap gets turned into a straight up pick to us and maybe a 2nd rounder too) and I really do like Jak

Zach can just be waived if his salary is really a concern...he's non guaranteed next year...I personally don't see the money as an issue at all though...

[spurraider21]

I get it - BUT SA needs to think looooooong and hard if they want to pay a Center; albeit a very good player, 20-25M a year in this league. Especially when you aren’t winning or contending.

I like Jakob and if we can move Zach+Doug for picks then I definitely am ok keeping Jak since it makes his first new year free (money that was going to Zach + Doug just gets re-routed to Jak). But paying someone 20-25M on a losing team I am not sure is so wise. You can trade him now vs possibly running risk of a deal looking really not so great potentially. It’s just a risk; even if it may be a small one.

I am just not a fan of paying guys on the older side of a rebuild 20M+, even if we have cap space, unless you are going to make a leap in the first 2 years of their deal. Especially a Center.

But if you can move Doug & Zach - hell ya keep Jakob unless it’s a great deal.

But getting even one fully unprotected pick I think would be VERY hard to turn down IMVHO (even the one from BOS where the swap gets turned into a straight up pick to us and maybe a 2nd rounder too) and I really do like Jak
who else are we paying anytime soon? outside of vassell there is nothing on the horizon

[KingKev]

who else are we paying anytime soon? outside of vassell there is nothing on the horizon

Agreed. The biggest reason to pay/over pay Jak is that we have near infinite cap. This whole squad is getting a nice binus this year because we couldn’t meet the minimum. I see this happening for the immediate future.

[baseline bum]

I get it - BUT SA needs to think looooooong and hard if they want to pay a Center; albeit a very good player, 20-25M a year in this league. Especially when you aren’t winning or contending.

I like Jakob and if we can move Zach+Doug for picks then I definitely am ok keeping Jak since it makes his first new year free (money that was going to Zach + Doug just gets re-routed to Jak). But paying someone 20-25M on a losing team I am not sure is so wise. You can trade him now vs possibly running risk of a deal looking really not so great potentially. It’s just a risk; even if it may be a small one.

I am just not a fan of paying guys on the older side of a rebuild 20M+, even if we have cap space, unless you are going to make a leap in the first 2 years of their deal. Especially a Center.

But if you can move Doug & Zach - hell ya keep Jakob unless it’s a great deal.

But getting even one fully unprotected pick I think would be VERY hard to turn down IMVHO (even the one from BOS where the swap gets turned into a straight up pick to us and maybe a 2nd rounder too) and I really do like Jak

We were talking about $20 million a year though, at $25 million that's maybe a different story. Poeltl on a 4 year, $80 million deal would still have solid trade value down the line if the team can't get what it wants in trade right now. It's not the kind of contract that would handicap them in the future, I see little downside to bringing him back. It would be less than $18 million next season and would probably start looking better over time as the cap increases. He'd be 31 at the end of the contract so age isn't going to be a problem.

[JPB]

We were talking about $20 million a year though, at $25 million that's maybe a different story. Poeltl on a 4 year, $80 million deal would still have solid trade value down the line if the team can't get what it wants in trade right now. It's not the kind of contract that would handicap them in the future, I see little downside to bringing him back. It would be less than $18 million next season and would probably start looking better over time as the cap increases. He'd be 31 at the end of the contract so age isn't going to be a problem.

Sorry but I'm really not sure Poetl on a 4/80 has that much of a trade value.

It teams don't want to pay that now, they probably won't in a later trade. It remains to be seen if they would give that Poetl now, we'll see.

[baseline bum]

In short, it's not that I desperately want to drop Poeltl, but overpaying for older players in a career year is a dangerous proposition, and I'd hate for us to be so blinded by the idea of losing him, that we end up signing him to a contract that renders him untradeable a la John Collins, which could end up much worse.

John Collins is at $7 million more than Poeltl would be next year in a hypothetical 4 year, $80 million deal. We're talking two completely different tiers of contract. If Poeltl wants a deal starting at $25 million next year then good luck with that for any team that signs him. And he's 31 at the end of his next contract, I don't see a lot of danger in him becoming a negative asset on a 4 year, $80 million deal. 4 year, $113 million in line with John Collins' contract is a whole different ballgame.

[baseline bum]

Sorry but I'm really not sure Poetl on a 4/80 has that much of a trade value.

It teams don't want to pay that now, they probably won't in a later trade. It remains to be seen if they would give that Poetl now, we'll see.

A lot of what is hamstringing Poeltl's trade value right now is the Spurs are pretty much only looking for picks in exchange, nothing else does them any good right now. With some luck in the draft in two or three years they might be looking for a vet instead on the trade market.

[JPB]

imo it's silly to worry about how Poeltl and Sochan fit with Wenbayama. The Spurs only have a maximum of a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick. Get all the assets you can for Poeltl now, bird in the hand etc.

That's what you do on a fan board... Imagine, forsee, study all possibilities... Not like this season was overwhelming.

And as Timvp wrote about, PATFO didn't wait for us to prepare for the Wemby eventuality. And you can be sure they've thinking about that Poetl or Sochan + Wemby question way before we did.

[scott]

Sure but he'd still be a rim protector and a Wemby/Sochan "small ball" combo (hilarious with a 7'5 guy) would offer a serious dilemma to opponents...

Did you see how quick Wemby can read and recover from the perimeter to come and block guys going for the lay-up thanks to his pterodactyl arms... That's another unique skill he possesses, he doesn't have to be as close as any normal big to block someone, reason why they often don't see the block coming or even possible...

Just add a couple 3 point shooters around and man, there's nothing for the opponent to stop that. And again, if you play Wemby with Poetl, that means you let Sochan on the bench.

I'm not so sure. Sochan's position flex along with his currently development trajectory with shooting makes him a viable option at the 3 that would be quite formidable if he could truly develop into a shooter.

In the scenario where we landed Wemby AND kept Jak... I'd look to develop Sochan into a 3, and then try to move Keldon (coupled with some picks) for a legit PG. I'd probably even look to package Devin and Keldon together to upgrade the SG position.

[DPG21920]

who else are we paying anytime soon? outside of vassell there is nothing on the horizon

Doesn’t matter who we are paying; like Doug, it just does not make sense to tie up any salary like that IMO unless the player is really worth it in context. If you aren’t winning and a player is aging compared to rebuild core, you don’t anchor large deals regardless of cap situation IMO vs extracting value. It’s just wasteful and pointless. If you are only going to win 20 games with or without the player don’t put it on your books - especially if that deal makes it harder to trade said player (which there is risk of that IMO)

Do I think it’s catastrophic? Nope. Not at all. But the point of being smart with assets, careful with contracts and extracting max value is key for rebuilds.

[DPG21920]

Zach can just be waived if his salary is really a concern...he's non guaranteed next year...I personally don't see the money as an issue at all though...

It’s not a money “issue” really- it’s just asset management. If you can net extra picks and pay Jakob the money Doug/Zach were already going to be paid? It’s turns it into “free” money for SA. That first year of Jak is now functionally free for SA (which doesn’t matter for cap purposes but matters for value purposes).

So its not about about needing the cap space etc…or it blocking a FA. It’s strictly making sure you are maximizing assets and flexibility as much as possible and by being smart you can get first year of Jak “for free” while getting a couple of 2nds for Doug/Zach

[DPG21920]

We were talking about $20 million a year though, at $25 million that's maybe a different story. Poeltl on a 4 year, $80 million deal would still have solid trade value down the line if the team can't get what it wants in trade right now. It's not the kind of contract that would handicap them in the future, I see little downside to bringing him back. It would be less than $18 million next season and would probably start looking better over time as the cap increases. He'd be 31 at the end of the contract so age isn't going to be a problem.

I think the downside is Centers don’t really get that much typically and we run the risk of Jak getting hurt or having a down year and now its viewed as a “meh to bad deal”. I think there’s more than a zero % chance that is the case. Look at the defense this year and how it may hurt his value and perception and his numbers. This continues? Could nuke his value IMO

[spurraider21]

Doesn’t matter who we are paying; like Doug, it just does not make sense to tie up any salary like that IMO unless the player is really worth it in context. If you aren’t winning and a player is aging compared to rebuild core, you don’t anchor large deals regardless of cap situation IMO vs extracting value. It’s just wasteful and pointless. If you are only going to win 20 games with or without the player don’t put it on your books - especially if that deal makes it harder to trade said player (which there is risk of that IMO)

Do I think it’s catastrophic? Nope. Not at all. But the point of being smart with assets, careful with contracts and extracting max value is key for rebuilds.
jak on a 4/80 deal still has value if we really needed to make a move. dont let a dumb move like signing mcdermott prevent you from making a more sound move in re-signing jak if we dont get a compelling offer for him

[DPG21920]

A lot of what is hamstringing Poeltl's trade value right now is the Spurs are pretty much only looking for picks in exchange, nothing else does them any good right now. With some luck in the draft in two or three years they might be looking for a vet instead on the trade market.

I think that is what Keldon/Tre are for….Have Sochan/Vassell core and the next draft pick or two and use Keldon + ATL picks etc to land a star like CLE did.

[DPG21920]

jak on a 4/80 deal still has value if we really needed to make a move. dont let a dumb move like signing mcdermott prevent you from making a more sound move in re-signing jak if we dont get a compelling offer for him

That is where we disagree. You’d think we would have learned this lesson with everyone saying the same thing about the Doug signing while I was immediately pissed off about it calling it stupid lol.

Another season like this where his numbers (especially defensively) sink due to circumstances? That 20M looks a little more dicey. But ya, again, don’t think it’s catastrophic and I’m actually making the argument for KEEPING Jak at the heart of my post on it.

Just want SA to move Doug/Zach so that money SA was going to pay them anyways just goes to Jak (a better player) instead while still adding draft capital

[spurraider21]

That is where we disagree. You’d think we would have learned this lesson with everyone saying the same thing about the Doug signing while I was immediately pissed off about it calling it stupid lol.

Another season like this where his numbers (especially defensively) sink due to circumstances? That 20M looks a little more dicey. But ya, again, don’t think it’s catastrophic and I’m actually making the argument for KEEPING Jak at the heart of my post on it.

Just want SA to move Doug/Zach so that money SA was going to pay them anyways just goes to Jak (a better player) instead while still adding draft capital
i thought doug signing was stupid at the time too. i dont see signing mcdermott to a 3 year deal as comparable to a player like jak

[exstatic]

I'm not so sure. Sochan's position flex along with his currently development trajectory with shooting makes him a viable option at the 3 that would be quite formidable if he could truly develop into a shooter.

In the scenario where we landed Wemby AND kept Jak... I'd look to develop Sochan into a 3, and then try to move Keldon (coupled with some picks) for a legit PG. I'd probably even look to package Devin and Keldon together to upgrade the SG position.

If Wemby can be a 4, he can be a 3. He’s got the skills.

[JPB]

I'm not so sure. Sochan's position flex along with his currently development trajectory with shooting makes him a viable option at the 3 that would be quite formidable if he could truly develop into a shooter.

In the scenario where we landed Wemby AND kept Jak... I'd look to develop Sochan into a 3, and then try to move Keldon (coupled with some picks) for a legit PG. I'd probably even look to package Devin and Keldon together to upgrade the SG position.

Yeah, I guess it's a possibily we all envisioned but that would really requires Sochan to transform into a pure shooting wing, wich I have a hard time imagining. He can eventually develop a reliable shoot as a stretch 4, not sure as a mobile, fast and creative 3 who can break defenses. He doesn't have that talented, "swingman" groove.

Reason why I think having the three of Victor Poetl and Sochan on the floor could prove a but too pedestrian and slow, specially on defense against real strong 3s... Maybe occasionnaly but I'd prefer spur to chase and land a pure scoring wing, what Sochan will never be IMHO.

[Mr. Body]

A lot of this board were scandalized by Jakob Poeltl's current contract, which proved almost instantly to have been a massive bargain.

A lot of this board were desperate to get Ayton from Phoenix, who is on a much higher and exorbitant top pick salary track.

Getting the sense that a lot of this board is really bad at evaluating centers and salaries, both our own players and players on other teams.

[spurraider21]

A lot of this board were scandalized by Jakob Poeltl's current contract, which proved almost instantly to have been a massive bargain.

A lot of this board were desperate to get Ayton from Phoenix, who is on a much higher and exorbitant top pick salary track.

Getting the sense that a lot of this board is really bad at evaluating centers and salaries, both our own players and players on other teams.
and you liked the mcdermott signing

[Leetonidas]

and you liked the mcdermott signing

:lol

[DPG21920]

i thought doug signing was stupid at the time too. i dont see signing mcdermott to a 3 year deal as comparable to a player like jak

I think it is for a few reasons: We are already seeing some “talk” about Jaks slippage on defense and how that may or may not impact value. Another year or two of that + looking at a large pay raise? Does not bode well *possibly*. It’s just an unnecessary risk IMO especially because with or without him we suck. So why take that risk? I get taking a risk if you are close to being legit and there’s only so many good players you can add. But taking the risk for no more wins and sucking anyways?

But ya, I do agree it is not some MAJOR concern; just one that sits in back of my mind.

The other reason is just that Centers still seem to have a stigma, especially non scoring centers and that alone gives me pause

[DPG21920]

A lot of this board were scandalized by Jakob Poeltl's current contract, which proved almost instantly to have been a massive bargain.

A lot of this board were desperate to get Ayton from Phoenix, who is on a much higher and exorbitant top pick salary track.

Getting the sense that a lot of this board is really bad at evaluating centers and salaries, both our own players and players on other teams.

I didn’t want Ayton. I saw some paths where it maybe made sense but Ayton was a number one pick, played a good role on a title team and looks to have a solid offensive game which changes the variable at Center when doing comparisons.

So, I get why some would rather pay Ayton 20M vs Jak 10M - it at least makes some sense whether I agree with it personally or not.

[spurraider21]

i wanted ayton/collins under the assumption that we were trying to build with murray. i didnt have a big issue with the murray trade because we got a good haul. once that door was closed, there was no real point in adding ayton

[Slippy]

Jacobs trade value would be less than last season if a trade is on the cards.

The guy looks disinterested out there and seems to be coasting like he Robert Horry on his last tour. . The post up against Shroeder was just plain lazy and embarrassing.

Wonder what the masterplan is from Grandpa Pop.

[DPG21920]

Over under: Spurs make 1.5 trades this trade deadline?

[scott]

A lot of this board were scandalized by Jakob Poeltl's current contract, which proved almost instantly to have been a massive bargain.

A lot of this board were desperate to get Ayton from Phoenix, who is on a much higher and exorbitant top pick salary track.

Getting the sense that a lot of this board is really bad at evaluating centers and salaries, both our own players and players on other teams.

A lot of this board also wanted to trade DJM and a bunch of FRPs for Ben Simmons.

The moral here is that maybe this message board isn't cut out to be an NBA GM.

[baseline bum]

That is where we disagree. You’d think we would have learned this lesson with everyone saying the same thing about the Doug signing while I was immediately pissed off about it calling it stupid lol.


LOL what? The board mostly hated the McDermott signing. McDermott has never been anywhere close to as good a player as Poeltl has been these last two years.