Spurs Front Office "Extremely Busy" After Kyrie Irving Asks For Trade

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-busy-kyrie-irving-trade-demand/

[lmbebo]

Sounds like the picks could derail spurs involvement ...

[offset formation]

:corn:

Whatever we do if it involves the Clippers or Lakers, I hope we bend them over a barrel on this. We owe them nothing


l ki da feel sorry for Brooklyn given all 3 of the super duper all stars asked out in a very public manner. And LMA gets shit on around here for doing so privately then also privately working it out with Pop.

[mo7888]

Good stuff!

[Spursfanfromafar]

Wow. I literally just wrote this before LJ's post - https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301393&page=20&p=10860196&viewfull=1#post10860196

[slick'81]

Tear this shit down sa

[Dejounte]

It’s great the Spurs have put themselves in a position of opportunity. Making moves for flexibility and not throwing salary commitments to just anybody led them here.

[heyheymymy]

Makes me think the Spurs are playing this one smart.

[heyheymymy]

Spurs this heavily involved but no deals yet? Spurs are gouging the trades to their advantage and if one ends up goes down it'll be a nice hustle imo

[TD 21]

The Spurs shouldn't do anything to potentially increase the odds of Scumbag winning another championship and the Nets shouldn't have interest in what the Clippers can offer since they don't have an expendable star to send back to keep the Nets in championship contention.

[buttsR4rebounding]

One thing I like in that article is that the Nets are wanting to get something done before the trade deadline so if the Spurs aren't involved they still have plenty of time to use their cap space on other trades.

[DPG21920]

Been trying to tell people…..nice to see the confluence of my thoughts here and that SA is in position to truly take advantage to get a valuable pick(s). I would be happy with one unprotected 1st. If Spurs end up getting more than that and keep books long term clean? I will be VERY happy

[DPG21920]

Sounds a lot like this: I think we as Spurs fans, especially with our youth, tend to really underrate our talent. The players I have been mentioning, along with the tax savings for BKY seem to be aligning with BKY thought process because if you don’t want Doug/Josh/Zach/Tre then the other players being offered better be WAY BETTER to pass up on getting good players and 40M in tax savings

Who knows what ends up happening, but it makes perfect sense to me what TIMVP is hearing because its completely logical even with having no inside info for BKY to at least be exploring this path even if it doesn’t end up being SA involved

If Jak is involved, unlike my proposal (which was always an option) SA will get more than one pick for sure.


Fake Trade:

Lakers Get: Kyrie + Josh Richardson

BKY Gets: Doug + Tre + Zach + 1 Lakers unprotected 1st

SA Gets: Westbrook (whom they waive so he can sign with a contender) + 1 Lakers unprotected 1st


My thoughts: If LA is really trying to win, and willing to give up 2 firsts this gets them more than just Kyrie in Josh Richardson to help with depth. BKY doesn’t lose Kyrie for a nothing player, gets 3 solid rotation pieces to help now and shaves their 100M tax bill in half while still getting a great pick as well.

SA loses only Tre from the “young” core, keeps rest of core including Jak for another deal/to re-sign and while they maybe should get more than one first for giving up Doug/Zach/Tre/Saving BKY a ton of money, they get the best possible one pick so quality over quantity.

[offset formation]

Lakers have to give up both their picks without major protections or its a big no for me.

[DPG21920]

It seems though there is maybe a better chance than I personally thought that Jak is moved timvp ? Is that the vibe you got that it now seems “more” likely that the odds are he is moved vs kept that this point?

Whether it’s in the Kyrie deal or separately, Spurs moving any combo of Jak and Josh/Doug/Zach/Tre will result in 2+ 1sts which is awesome.

[DPG21920]

It’s great the Spurs have put themselves in a position of opportunity. Making moves for flexibility and not throwing salary commitments to just anybody led them here.

For sure - credit to them for doing a lot right too. I was pretty upset last few years justifiably so, but even then the one thing they never did was make the BIG mistake. So even amongst the many mistakes, they avoided the catastrophic ones. Now that they have picked a direction and seem to have a unified vision? They are in a good spot to give themselves a shot long term

[K...]

the lakers aren't magic johnson delusional but are still pretty stuck in LALA land. They maximumly leveraged for GM lebron and got one ring. Now they want a bailout. sounds like most american big businesses these days.

[DPG21920]

Lakers have to give up both their picks without major protections or its a big no for me.


Agree - I was fine with one pick (if the deal did not include Jak) but that was ONLY under the pretense that the pick was fully unprotected. If it’s starting to be protected somewhat heavily (like beyond top 3) I would want more picks. If deal includes Jak as well any combo of Josh/Doug/Zach/Tre then I want two picks regardless

[heyheymymy]

I'd rather balk and walk than to relent on terms of a deal. FRP for talent plus FRP for garbage salary hosting. Both, not either or. If you're sending out a decent player AND taking back junk salary that's 2 favors not 1 and must be properly/fully reciprocated.

[DPG21920]

I'd rather balk and walk than to relent on terms of a deal. FRP for talent plus FRP for garbage salary hosting. Both, not either or. If you're sending out a decent player AND taking back junk salary that's 2 favors not 1 and must be properly/fully reciprocated.

Spurs, arent doing anything truly on the salary side though. They are the beneficiary. Not only are they sending out the same money they get back in Westbrook (factoring in salary floor), but they lose 15m off their books next year too. It’s a huge benefit for Spurs in this scenario.

If they were just absorbing a bunch of WB money I get it, but with what they are sending out vs getting back? They are paying really no extra money they wouldn’t be paying anyways. You cannot overlook this point here IMO

[K...]

the lakers are the loudest team in the trade market but the market for kyrie is bigger than them and the price set by the lakers is easy to surpass. 2 minimally protected picks? value expiring contracts, NO can meet that in a second if they wanted, maybe they call them...okc? This is a buyers market for talent, and a sellers market for capspace. Very weird trade deadline.

[John B]

Spurs better get 2FRP’s unprotected for absorbing Westbrick and another 2 FRP’s for giving up Poeltl. Plus whatever they get for JRich, Zach and Doug. This may require more than 3 teams. Also I agree I don’t like Spurs to send any help to the Clippers and get Nephew a shot at another ring, that’s twice getting fucked by this guy.

Also it would be silly to trade both Poeltl and Zach, that would guarantee no W’s from hereon. I’m high on Zach (more than I felt losing Landale). I rather they don’t move him, worst like a chopped liver for nothing.

[heyheymymy]

Compelling perspective, DPG. Yes if Spurs view the financial implications of a possible trade favorably then it would change the stance on relenting to less picks SA would demand back.

I like how you have been framing that financial aspect of SAs obligation to meet the expense floor and in that sense, it really is the same money being spent either way. Interesting scenario here, can't wait to see what the Spurs may pull off.

[K...]

the spurs should either get lakers FRP without much protection, or get a bunch of protected FRP and SRP from trading poertle and whatever in smaller deals. Arguing selling the bank (poertle, richardson and cap space) doesn't look remotely better than the small deal mix that we get for ignoring kryrie and westbrook. getting a late first this draft would be massive for the current core. WE already have a good amount of remote picks. Getting five middling picks helps with future trades on promising young players and veteran stop gaps.

Whilke the spurs should swing for the fences, they should not take a poor deal to do so.

[K...]

Compelling perspective, DPG. Yes if Spurs view the financial implications of a possible trade favorably then it would change the stance on relenting to less picks SA would demand back.

I like how you have been framing that financial aspect of SAs obligation to meet the expense floor and in that sense, it really is the same money being spent either way. Interesting scenario here, can't wait to see what the Spurs may pull off.

boosting of my last post, is wrong to compare that and say the cap space is worth nothing so a 1 frp is worth it. The 1 frp comes at an opportunity cost for a basket of smaller trades that get assets.

[heyheymymy]

The hold up may be how absorbing WBs contract is being argued by LAL as a benefit to SA in the context of SA needing to meet the salary floor.

If LAL can successfully argue these benefits to SA, it might convince SA to ask for less value back in return (read, number of FRPs SA receives)

[exstatic]

The hold up may be how absorbing WBs contract is being argued by LAL as a benefit to SA in the context of SA needing to meet the salary floor.

If LAL can successfully argue these benefits to SA, it might convince SA to ask for less value back in return (read, number of FRPs SA receives)

It’s not a benefit, and hitting the salary floor probably costs more than paying out the players. Worst case, it’s the same.

[heyheymymy]

maybe a FRP toggles down to a 2RP in light of how the deal puts SA in objectively slimmer financial burdens or that might be what is in negotiations currently

Bet SA front office is in the WAR ROOM manning hot phones right now lol

CIA Pop in the situation room pouring over the battle maps as we speak lol.

[DPG21920]

boosting of my last post, is wrong to compare that and say the cap space is worth nothing so a 1 frp is worth it. The 1 frp comes at an opportunity cost for a basket of smaller trades that get assets.

Correct. If SA thinks they can do a bunch of smaller deals that net them more/better picks? By all means do it. I highly doubt though in anyone’s wildest dreams that they thought any combination of Doug/Josh/Collins and renting cap space would result in maybe THE most sought after pick on the market right now in a fully unprotected lakers first

[DPG21920]

the spurs should either get lakers FRP without much protection, or get a bunch of protected FRP and SRP from trading poertle and whatever in smaller deals. Arguing selling the bank (poertle, richardson and cap space) doesn't look remotely better than the small deal mix that we get for ignoring kryrie and westbrook. getting a late first this draft would be massive for the current core. WE already have a good amount of remote picks. Getting five middling picks helps with future trades on promising young players and veteran stop gaps.

Whilke the spurs should swing for the fences, they should not take a poor deal to do so.

How is losing Josh (who will walk in FA anyways), Zach (completely replaceable) and Doug (not worth his deal and frees up 13M to replace him with a better player than himself) and paying NO extra money a bad deal?

[Ariel]

boosting of my last post, is wrong to compare that and say the cap space is worth nothing so a 1 frp is worth it. The 1 frp comes at an opportunity cost for a basket of smaller trades that get assets.
Definitely. Also, even if it costs you nothing, if it benefits someone else you should get a cut from it as well, because no one else would do that for you if the tables were turned. Squeeze every bit of value that you can from your assets, that's what successful teams do.

[Chinook]

Sounds a lot like this: I think we as Spurs fans, especially with our youth, tend to really underrate our talent. The players I have been mentioning, along with the tax savings for BKY seem to be aligning with BKY thought process because if you don’t want Doug/Josh/Zach/Tre then the other players being offered better be WAY BETTER to pass up on getting good players and 40M in tax savings

Who knows what ends up happening, but it makes perfect sense to me what TIMVP is hearing because its completely logical even with having no inside info for BKY to at least be exploring this path even if it doesn’t end up being SA involved

If Jak is involved, unlike my proposal (which was always an option) SA will get more than one pick for sure.

I don't see why the Spurs are trading Jones in this deal. The Lakers basically have to unprotect their picks to trade two, so the Spurs shouldn't be paying a premium for that. If anything, the Nets need to toss in a bit more value to the Spurs given that SA likes Collins.

[DPG21920]

The hold up may be how absorbing WBs contract is being argued by LAL as a benefit to SA in the context of SA needing to meet the salary floor.

If LAL can successfully argue these benefits to SA, it might convince SA to ask for less value back in return (read, number of FRPs SA receives)

Agree. That’s why I have one of the insanely valuable picks going to BKY instead of SA. But maybe SA gets some 2nds or a protected first from BKY down the road too. It’s just a general framework lol I am not on the trade calls

But for all the “it’s not enough crowd!’

You are basically arguing that Spurs taking on WB while sending out all that money + salary floor + shedding Dougs guaranteed money is such a huge deal that you in principle would rather walk away empty handed maybe and don’t think Doug/Collins/Zach (or maybe Tre too) are worth trading for an unprotected 1st???

Forget the WB part - would you not think its the trade of the century to flip Collins off the scrap heap, Doug who isnt doing anything here really and Josh who can walk in FA next year into an unprotected first????

[heyheymymy]

Yes, why wouldn't SA be able to successfully argue back that financial benefits don't change the asking price because SA could just as easily pay up their roster instead and that has it's own benefits as well. Like worst case scenario, Spurs have to pay up their own players to meet the floor and in doing so make their own players happier, richer and possibly more loyal? Don't twist my arm to force me to invest in my own home grown guys, the horror!

Why should SA give back picks in the asking price for a residual financial benefit that isn't their only (or best) option there and isn't really a result of anything LAL deliberately did in our best interest but rather just happens to work out that way?

[DPG21920]

I don't see why the Spurs are trading Jones in this deal. The Lakers basically have to unprotect their picks to trade two, so the Spurs shouldn't be paying a premium for that. If anything, the Nets need to toss in a bit more value to the Spurs given that SA likes Collins.

Ya - that was just a general thing to give BKY a PG since Kyrie is gone..but he was not mentioned in TIMVP post at all so may not be included and obviously would make the deal better if he is not. And if Jak is involved, absolutely SA should get more than one first.

[Ariel]

Spurs better get 2FRP’s unprotected for absorbing Westbrick and another 2 FRP’s for giving up Poeltl. Plus whatever they get for JRich, Zach and Doug. This may require more than 3 teams. Also I agree I don’t like Spurs to send any help to the Clippers and get Nephew a shot at another ring, that’s twice getting fucked by this guy.

Also it would be silly to trade both Poeltl and Zach, that would guarantee no W’s from hereon. I’m high on Zach (more than I felt losing Landale). I rather they don’t move him, worst like a chopped liver for nothing.
Taking in Westbrook's contract won't be so onerous, as it expires in a few months. The only way you could extort such value out of someone, is if we're talking about a massive, massive trade (say Durant) and your involvement is indispensable.

[heyheymymy]

SA appears to have most all of the negotiation leverage here imo.

Add that to the fact no deals have occurred yet? Spurs are ROASTING these opposing FOs for max extraction of value in my opinion. Will it work? Hey, that's what is yet unknown.

[DPG21920]

Yes, why wouldn't SA be able to successfully argue back that financial benefits don't change the asking price because SA could just as easily pay up their roster instead and that has it's own benefits as well. Like worst case scenario, Spurs have to pay up their own players to meet the floor and in doing so make their own players happier, richer and possibly more loyal? Don't twist my arm to force me to invest in my own home grown guys, the horror!

Why should SA give back picks in the asking price for a residual financial benefit that isn't their only (or best) option there and isn't really a result of anything LAL deliberately did in our best interest but rather just happens to work out that way?

Because of Doug. Spurs would be shedding his guaranteed money next year, opening up that much more cap space and can run this same game again renting out their cap space (not +13M since Doug is off books) to get more assets.

[exstatic]

The LA/BK trade literally can’t happen without our cap space. BK doesn’t want Russ, or his exorbitant tax killing salary. The cap space is not worthless, and we need to hold the line.

[DPG21920]

SA appears to have most all of the negotiation leverage here imo.

Add that to the fact no deals have occurred yet? Spurs are ROASTING these opposing FOs for max extraction of value in my opinion. Will it work? Hey, that's what is yet unknown.

That’s fine - but again, ask yourself: Are you willing to get NOTHING for Doug/Richardson/Collins if you don’t meet your price? Seems foolish to me when the alternative is getting at least one incredibly invaluable pick + the same ability to use your cap space for assets next year too because you offloaded Dougs guaranteed money so will again be a premiere cap space team.

[Chinook]

Ya - that was just a general thing to give BKY a PG since Kyrie is gone..but he was not mentioned in TIMVP post at all so may not be included and obviously would make the deal better if he is not. And if Jak is involved, absolutely SA should get more than one first.

If Jones isn't included, or if Brooklyn is paying specifically so Jones is included, I don't mind the deal. I don't consider moving McDermott value, but I also don't mind getting rid Collins since I don't like him on the team. I do wonder what the Spurs can get if they sell their players off individually though. Collins is grading out well this year, and Richardson is playing well. They might be able to move them for value and ballast they can then send out in a Westbrook trade. They don't have the 60-day limit for aggregating since they are under the cap.

The Nets do have Cam Thomas, who flashes every once in a while, as their backup guard. I don't know that they see PG as a need position right now.

[DPG21920]

The LA/BK trade literally can’t happen without our cap space. BK doesn’t want Russ, or his exorbitant tax killing salary. The cap space is not worthless, and we need to hold the line.

It 100% can happen without SA. I have no idea why people keep saying this. BKY can absolutely trade directly with LA, waive WB and use the 2 unprotected first that would have netted Buddy Hield + Turner at one point and flip those picks for players like that to a degree.

ya, will BKY save money in that scenario? Nope. But they will get a deal done and help their team win now.

[Chinook]

The LA/BK trade literally can’t happen without our cap space. BK doesn’t want Russ, or his exorbitant tax killing salary. The cap space is not worthless, and we need to hold the line.

It can happen, especially if the Nets want to move Simmons as well. If the Nets don't want Russ to go to them, they'll probably have to pay a third team to take him on, but there are other teams that can do this with expirings or decent ballast. It won't provide the tax savings the Spurs could, but that might be a sacrifice they're willing to make if the Spurs don't try to make a competitive offer.

[DPG21920]

If Jones isn't included, or if Brooklyn is paying specifically so Jones is included, I don't mind the deal. I don't consider moving McDermott value, but I also don't mind getting rid Collins since I don't like him on the team. I do wonder what the Spurs can get if they sell their players off individually though. Collins is grading out well this year, and Richardson is playing well. They might be able to move them for value and ballast they can then send out in a Westbrook trade. They don't have the 60-day limit for aggregating since they are under the cap.

The Nets do have Cam Thomas, who flashes every once in a while, as their backup guard. I don't know that they see PG as a need position right now.

Ya - Cam had a monster game last night. I agree - I just *personally* value one unprotected LAL pick more than I’d say up to 3 lottery protected firsts. So for me it’s this: if by doing different deals for Doug/Collins/Josh and Cap space you can get 4 firsts? I say thats prob better than the one pick. If you can only get 3 1sts I would prefer the one Lakers pick

[heyheymymy]

Spurs leverage:

- have tons of league exclusive cap space to host bad salary

- have plausibly decent player assets to return, and in wing or bigs player template to fit various needs

- have some surplus pick reserves even if it's somehow needed to sweeten back. Can build a deal in most any type of format, value and volume whether it's space, players or picks in the proposals.

- have no sense of urgency from contention this season. Spurs are not in the hunt to contend and have no feet to the fire or desperation in the sense that SA would be desperate or bound by any need to compete this season for a ring.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I’d definitely throw in the Charlotte pick if that helps net us an additional Laker FRP or the 2028 Nets pick. With what they gave up to Houston for Harden they could end up being shit for an extended period.

[heyheymymy]

I don't know if SA views shedding Dougs contract as a need.

He only has one more year at 13.75mm and is plus contributor imo by the eye test this season. Next year Doug might even be an asset with his expiring.

[DPG21920]

Spurs leverage:

- have tons of league exclusive cap space to host bad salary

- have plausibly decent player assets to return, and in wing or bigs player template to fit various needs

- have some surplus pick reserves even if it's somehow needed to sweeten back. Can build a deal in most any type of format, value and volume whether it's space, players or picks in the proposals.

- have no sense of urgency from contention this season. Spurs are not in the hunt to contend and have no feet to the fire or desperation in the sense that SA would be desperate or bound by any need to compete this season for a ring.

It’s not always about leverage lol. Or feeling good that you fleeced a team. It’s about improving your team and overall outlook.

Spurs Non-Leverage:

Not needed to do a deal between LAL and BKY or anyone else.

Have vets in Josh + Doug that will walk for nothing next year or year after and aren’t helping them win anyways

Are a bad team desperately in need of premier draft capital to either draft their franchise guy(s) and/or trade for one or be in for 5-10 years of no playoffs

Are in the dumps and have Pop on the way out and need to find a way to not be a bottom feeder for 5+ years

[DPG21920]

I don't know if SA views shedding Dougs contract as a need.

He only has one more year at 13.75mm and is plus contributor imo by the eye test this season. Next year Doug might even be an asset with his expiring.

Doesn’t have to be a need but it is a fact that it takes 13M off the books next year and allows even more opportunities than this year to use cap space in trades again. So not only does taking on WB here not add punitive money this year, but it actually gives SA MORE ammo to be a seller of cap space next year….seems like a good deal if you care about reality vs trying to “stick it” to other teams IMVHO

[heyheymymy]

That’s fine - but again, ask yourself: Are you willing to get NOTHING for Doug/Richardson/Collins if you don’t meet your price? Seems foolish to me when the alternative is getting at least one incredibly invaluable pick + the same ability to use your cap space for assets next year too because you offloaded Dougs guaranteed money so will again be a premiere cap space team.

Very valid fear of mine - good call. To be left holding the hot potato after missing the last offramp for cashing out high and realize everyone is walking for nothing now instead over you mincing because of one extra pick here or there.

[DPG21920]

Another way to look at this: What’s the risk if SA is “wrong” here and gets “fleeced” by only getting one pick (if Jak is involved and its one pick I will be pissed lol. Saying mine without Jak)?

There is no downside. Sure, left some on the table but didnt do anything to mess up young core, didnt do anything to harm the flexibility and they still added maybe the most premier pick on the market at the moment.

You may argue upside is limited some, but downside for this “mistake” is pretty non existent considering they can still rent out cap space for volume picks next year too. No opportunity cost lost there.

[DPG21920]

Very valid fear of mine - good call. To be left holding the hot potato after missing the last offramp for cashing out high and realize everyone is walking for nothing now instead over you mincing because of one extra pick here or there.

Exactly. And I would get it if I was asking for a run of the mill pick. But this is, IMO a crazy valuable pick we are discussing here. SA can still get lottery protected firsts for cap rental next year. The ability to nab unprotected firsts is the new gold in the NBA. Getting them is hard without giving up all stars and all SA has to do is give up Doug/Collins/Josh and pay no extra money on their cap?

Put in that way it seems freaking obvious to me lol but maybe I just see things differently.

[heyheymymy]

Spurs only have 62.5 on the books next year so in my view 13.75 is a drop in the bucket of space and might not be a factor worth changing things over but you are correct in that SA has a publicly stated priority right now of flexibility in all forms, chiefly financial.

[Mr. Body]

How many teams are looking at getting their tax bills down? It seems like smaller deals may be the way to go.

I just don't see how an LAL/SAS/BKN trade works. If didn't work last summer and it doesn't work now. The Lakers just don't have enough picks to give to the Nets and the Spurs to make it worthwhile to both.

[DPG21920]

Spurs only have 62.5 on the books next year so in my view 13.75 is a drop in the bucket of space and might not be a factor worth changing things over but you are correct in that SA has a publicly stated priority right now of flexibility in all forms, chiefly financial.

Ya - but instead of having “Doug” in that money, SA now gets a reset with that 13.75M and can sign someone(s) to replace Doug that maybe fits better, has more upside etc…and still have the cap space they were planning on if Doug was still here

[DPG21920]

How many teams are looking at getting their tax bills down? It seems like smaller deals may be the way to go.

I just don't see how an LAL/SAS/BKN trade works. If didn't work last summer and it doesn't work now. The Lakers just don't have enough picks to give to the Nets and the Spurs to make it worthwhile to both.

I think between getting some good players and one pick from LA BKY should be happy. Especially if they can maybe do something like this (just an example):

LA Gets: Kyrie+Josh Rich
BKY Gets: Bojan Bogdanovic+Tre Jones
DET Gets: Doug McD+Zach Collins+LA unprotected 1st
SA Gets: Westbrook+LA unprotected 1st

So BKY turns Doug+Zach+1st into Bogdanovic & shaves ~40M off tax bill?

Again, I think it comes down to SA being happy with not including Jak, not taking on any real money and being ok with 1 unprotected pick (and maybe some 2nds from LA and BKY etc..)

[heyheymymy]

Ya - but instead of having “Doug” in that money, SA now gets a reset with that 13.75M and can sign someone(s) to replace Doug that maybe fits better, has more upside etc…and still have the cap space they were planning on if Doug was still here

Agreed. Doug is def not in the long term plans of SA enough that it wouldn't sting if Doug somehow was a hindrance or obstruction to some potential better fit down the line or needed future flexibility.

[RC_Drunkford]

Good news. Let's hope we get at least 2 first rounders out of it

[Mr. Body]

I think between getting some good players and one pick from LA BKY should be happy. Especially if they can maybe do something like this (just an example):

LA Gets: Kyrie+Josh Rich
BKY Gets: Bojan Bogdanovic+Tre Jones
DET Gets: Doug McD+Zach Collins+LA unprotected 1st
SA Gets: Westbrook+LA unprotected 1st

So BKY turns Doug+Zach+1st into Bogdanovic & shaves ~40M off tax bill?

Again, I think it comes down to SA being happy with not including Jak, not taking on any real money and being ok with 1 unprotected pick (and maybe some 2nds from LA and BKY etc..)

I don't know why you're obsessed with giving up four players, two of whom are still developing.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know why you're obsessed with giving up four players, two of whom are still developing.

And for giving up all that and eating Westbrook salary the Spurs just get one draft pick.

[DPG21920]

I don't know why you're obsessed with giving up four players, two of whom are still developing.

Because they are completely replaceable maybe outside of Tre and even that is not a huge deal to me with all the picks and cap space SA has moving forward. What is harder to get: an unprotected first from a team with a history of sucking like LA or finding players of Doug/Josh/Tre/Collins caliber when you have max money and picks? Seems pretty straightforward.

Again to be clear: I am painting sort of “worst case scenario” where I would still be very happy. Of course I would prefer to get this deal done and keep Tre or get more than the one pick. But if you’re trying to argue the difference in celebrating landing an incredibly valuable pick and begin upset is the inclusion of Tre? Then ya, I really don’t understand that POV

[offset formation]

Correct. If SA thinks they can do a bunch of smaller deals that net them more/better picks? By all means do it. I highly doubt though in anyone’s wildest dreams that they thought any combination of Doug/Josh/Collins and renting cap space would result in maybe THE most sought after pick on the market right now in a fully unprotected lakers first

Yup. That Lakers '27 especially looks to be a high end pick. Bron will either be washed or with whatever team Bronny is on. Brow will be elsewhere or as injury prone as ever. And they'll likely have any other talent expiring with no FRPs to rebuild with. If Kyrazy is there he'll undoubtedly be in a cult by then and winning even fewer games than he is with the KD less Nets are presently.

Don't see any other NBA all-stars going there on long term contracts beyond the next couple years in Lebron's remaining window.

In summary, there is am above average shot both the 27 and 29 picks are top 10.

[offset formation]

Another way to look at this: What’s the risk if SA is “wrong” here and gets “fleeced” by only getting one pick (if Jak is involved and its one pick I will be pissed lol. Saying mine without Jak)?

There is no downside. Sure, left some on the table but didnt do anything to mess up young core, didnt do anything to harm the flexibility and they still added maybe the most premier pick on the market at the moment.

You may argue upside is limited some, but downside for this “mistake” is pretty non existent considering they can still rent out cap space for volume picks next year too. No opportunity cost lost there.

Only issue here is assuming we have a young core. This board thought we had a young core with DJ, White, Primo, Poeltl, and KJ in the fold. Now we have KJ, Poeltl, Vassell, and Sochan (won't include Tre in a "core").

I'd say it's feasible only Vassell and Soxhan are left in 2 or 3 years. Maybe even just Sochan.

Thus, I'm not sure there's really a core per se that we should be worrying about maintaining or protecting from trade.

That said I'm high on Langford's future. Collins could be a solid piece. Combined with Vassell and Sochan there might be enough to build around if we get Wembanyama or Scoot.

[BatManu20]

The dream is still alive boys. Make it happen PATFO.


https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_aut o:good%2Cw_1200/MTk1MzcwMDU0MzI4NTI2NTIz/westbrook-spurs.jpg

[baseline bum]

How many teams are looking at getting their tax bills down? It seems like smaller deals may be the way to go.

I just don't see how an LAL/SAS/BKN trade works. If didn't work last summer and it doesn't work now. The Lakers just don't have enough picks to give to the Nets and the Spurs to make it worthwhile to both.

The Nets are bent over a barrel here by both the Lakers and Spurs. Irving already said he'll just sit out if not traded per Stephen A Smith, so their leverage is pretty shitty here and they'll have to take what they can get instead of nothing. They'll probably get a protected first out of the Lakers. But the Spurs can demand an unprotected first out of the Lakers because the trade can't happen without them. Plus it would also give the Lakers significant luxury tax savings and the Nets enormous luxury tax savings by taking Westbrook.

[DPG21920]

Only issue here is assuming we have a young core. This board thought we had a young core with DJ, White, Primo, Poeltl, and KJ in the fold. Now we have KJ, Poeltl, Vassell, and Sochan (won't include Tre in a "core").

I'd say it's feasible only Vassell and Soxhan are left in 2 or 3 years. Maybe even just Sochan.

Thus, I'm not sure there's really a core per se that we should be worrying about maintaining or protecting from trade.

That said I'm high on Langford's future. Collins could be a solid piece. Combined with Vassell and Sochan there might be enough to build around if we get Wembanyama or Scoot.

That’s fair but point I was making is more that SA retains all their most valuable pieces. Whether they are a core alongside hopefully a Wemby or Scoot or they are traded for solid things, Spurs arent giving any of that up in this deal. Its all still there for SA to decide what to do and move forward.

[cjw]

The Spurs don’t drive the ultimate outcome of where Irving ends up (or what other trades go down), but as long as Wright is in the fray on every possible deal, they will extract their pound of flesh.

A trade with Clippers is almost more palatable(depending on compensation) as instead of taking back a Westbrook supersized contract, they can take a couple smaller ones that can be sent out immediately (either would have to be aggregated into larger trade, or traded on their own). Clippers have six guys making between $10 and $17 million.

Heck, the Spurs can even get involved in an Irving trade and take on guys like Reggie Jackson / Amir Coffey in pure dumps while sending out Richardson / Collins to Nets, and get a first rounder back in the deal AND still not add additional salary. Meaning they can use space in other trades.

Teams will try to reduce luxury tax burdens, but in addition to having space that can be used to ease that burden the Spurs have a bunch of reasonable tradeable contracts that can help bring up the 125% of outgoing salary numbers for teams. The bigger the trades, the more room there is to operate.

tl;dr version - I think the Spurs can come out of this with a lot more than one first rounder. Lack of sellers exist out there.

[DPG21920]

Get on the train y’all! My Spurs deal is going down and I want to be engraved in the SpursTalk fake trade that mostly happened hall of fame with some of the legends that came before me :cry

[Mr. Body]

Because they are completely replaceable maybe outside of Tre and even that is not a huge deal to me with all the picks and cap space SA has moving forward. What is harder to get: an unprotected first from a team with a history of sucking like LA or finding players of Doug/Josh/Tre/Collins caliber when you have max money and picks? Seems pretty straightforward.

Again to be clear: I am painting sort of “worst case scenario” where I would still be very happy. Of course I would prefer to get this deal done and keep Tre or get more than the one pick. But if you’re trying to argue the difference in celebrating landing an incredibly valuable pick and begin upset is the inclusion of Tre? Then ya, I really don’t understand that POV

Just because players are replaceable doesn't make dumping them for no reason make sense. It costs to replace them.

[Mr. Body]

The Nets are bent over a barrel here by both the Lakers and Spurs. Irving already said he'll just sit out if not traded per Stephen A Smith, so their leverage is pretty shitty here and they'll have to take what they can get instead of nothing. They'll probably get a protected first out of the Lakers. But the Spurs can demand an unprotected first out of the Lakers because the trade can't happen without them. Plus it would also give the Lakers significant luxury tax savings and the Nets enormous luxury tax savings by taking Westbrook.

The trade can go through Utah. There are other options.

[Rocalcio]

Sounds a lot like this: I think we as Spurs fans, especially with our youth, tend to really underrate our talent. The players I have been mentioning, along with the tax savings for BKY seem to be aligning with BKY thought process because if you don’t want Doug/Josh/Zach/Tre then the other players being offered better be WAY BETTER to pass up on getting good players and 40M in tax savings

Who knows what ends up happening, but it makes perfect sense to me what TIMVP is hearing because its completely logical even with having no inside info for BKY to at least be exploring this path even if it doesn’t end up being SA involved

If Jak is involved, unlike my proposal (which was always an option) SA will get more than one pick for sure.

I wouldn’t be very happy to get a shitty contract and just one 1st round for Josh, Doug, Zach and Tre.

[DPG21920]

Just because players are replaceable doesn't make dumping them for no reason make sense. It costs to replace them.

Only in your world is a truly coveted high potential first round pick “for no reason”.

[DPG21920]

I wouldn’t be very happy to get a shitty contract and just one 1st round for Josh, Doug, Zach and Tre.

What contract is shitty for the Spurs?

[CGD]

The LA/BK trade literally can’t happen without our cap space. BK doesn’t want Russ, or his exorbitant tax killing salary. The cap space is not worthless, and we need to hold the line.

Exactly, let’s stay focused here.

Thanks to Timvp for this. The two new nuggets here are:

1. BKNs interest in Collins;
2. LAC offering a pick for spurs to eat bad money in 3 way deal

Let’s also not discount the CHA pick (basically 2 seconds) being used here to grease the gears.

[Rocalcio]

What contract is shitty for the Spurs?

What is the only contract we’re getting with your trade ?

[baseline bum]

The trade can go through Utah. There are other options.

Utah is $10 million over the cap. They can't absorb Westbrook.

[DPG21920]

What is the only contract we’re getting with your trade ?

WB deal is a nothing contract for the Spurs. I am asking why you think its shitty?

[DPG21920]

Exactly, let’s stay focused here.

Thanks to Timvp for this. The two new nuggets here are:

1. BKNs interest in Collins;
2. LAC offering a pick for spurs to eat bad money in 3 way deal

Let’s also not discount the CHA pick (basically 2 seconds) being used here to grease the gears.

3. That SA has “multiple” players BKY finds valuable in addition to being interested in saving money. If both are true definitely leans SA having a great shot at being involved

[Ariel]

I think the base template of a 3 way trade should be the smallest possible trade that meets most criteria. I keep coming to something like this:
Spurs: IN Westbrook (LAL) | OUT Richardson (BKN) + Zach Collins (BKN) + McDermott (LAL)
Brooklyn: IN Richardson (SAN) + Zach Collins (SAN) | OUT: Irving (LAL)
Lakers: IN Irving (BKN) + McDermott (SAN) | OUT: Westbrook (SAN)
Basically:
Lakers: get Kyrie and McDermott, take in only 3.7M extra this year (36.9 + 13.8 - 47) and 14M next
Spurs take in 13.6M in salary in '23 (47 - 13.8 - 12.2 - 7.4) but avoid 13.8M in '24 (kind of neutral), and only give up players on expiring or net neutral contracts
Brooklyn: sheds 17.3M this year and avoids 3 times as much in tax (approx.), doesn't take on larger contracts.

IMO in this scenario the Lakers should part with 2 unprotected picks at least, the Nets should receive 1 extra player or pick for it to be worth it, and we should get 2 picks.
There are several variations
we get one unprotected pick from LAL and Brooklyn the other (most direct scenario)
we get both unprotected picks from LAL and give value to Brooklyn by way of the Charlotte pick, plus a few 2nd rounders or Tre Jones.
Maybe Poeltl goes to a third team that sends a player to the Nets and we get extra draft capital.

IMO those are the possible alternatives that could have us involved in a 3 way trade with Brooklyn and the Lakers.

[baseline bum]

3. That SA has “multiple” players BKY finds valuable in addition to being interested in saving money. If both are true definitely leans SA having a great shot at being involved

And the Spurs have way better leverage to come out with the best piece outside of Irving in this deal. Brooklyn has to get something done or they get nothing plus have to deal with the luxury tax from Irving's contract while he stays home and pouts.

[CGD]

3. That SA has “multiple” players BKY finds valuable in addition to being interested in saving money. If both are true definitely leans SA having a great shot at being involved

Yeah, though a assumed that meant Collins and Richardson. Suppose it could also include Romeo who is expiring at the end of the year, or Jakob but seems weird to want both he and Collins.

Maybe Tre as you’ve been suggesting as well?

[offset formation]

Exactly, let’s stay focused here.

Thanks to Timvp for this. The two new nuggets here are:

1. BKNs interest in Collins;
2. LAC offering a pick for spurs to eat bad money in 3 way deal

Let’s also not discount the CHA pick (basically 2 seconds) being used here to grease the gears.

And another reminder just how miserable these superstars can make your franchise over night. For all their upside, there is a bunch of downside having those fools on your team, too.

See neph, Lebron leaving Cleveland, Harden (twice), Kyrazie, KD, etc, etc.

[baseline bum]

And another reminder just how miserable these superstars can make your franchise over night. For all their upside, there is a bunch of downside having those fools on your team, too.

See neph, Lebron leaving Cleveland, Harden (twice), Kyrazie, KD, etc, etc.

I don't blame Harden for forcing his way out of Brooklyn, that was all on Irving's antivax faggotry.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, though a assumed that meant Collins and Richardson. Suppose it could also include Romeo who is expiring at the end of the year, or Jakob but seems weird to want both he and Collins.

Maybe Tre as you’ve been suggesting as well?

That was my thought….especially if they need a PG (which depending on how they feel about Cam Thomas who just had a monster game they might.

[CGD]

I suppose if im BKN and I really want to prioritize players in this deal, I’m ranking the realistically movable pieces from both Laker and Spurs rosters and demanding 3 or 4.

Who do we think that is and in what order?

Jakob
Richardson
Max Christie
Collins
Reaves
Romeo

If the spurs were willing to make Tre available I supposed he’d catapult to 2.

[DPG21920]

And another side note: Obviously Spurs and Marks are VERY close right? Has to account for something along with the fact that after Harden and especially Kyrie, BKY may be valuing the CREAM more than anything at the moment.

[baseline bum]

I suppose if im BKN and I really want to prioritize players in this deal, I’m ranking the realistically movable pieces from both Laker and Spurs rosters and demanding 3 or 4.

Who do we think that is and in what order?

Jakob
Richardson
Max Christie
Collins
Reaves
Romeo

If the spurs were willing to make Tre available I supposed he’d catapult to 2.

They don't have the leverage to demand Poeltl unless the Spurs get both Lakers picks unprotected.

[Robz4000]

Get on the train y’all! My Spurs deal is going down and I want to be engraved in the SpursTalk fake trade that mostly happened hall of fame with some of the legends that came before me :cry

If tspence reports it, it's true tbh.

[scott]

Because of Doug. Spurs would be shedding his guaranteed money next year, opening up that much more cap space and can run this same game again renting out their cap space (not +13M since Doug is off books) to get more assets.

I think you are overvaluing the impact of not having Doug on the books next year. We have so much cap space anyway next season, that freeing up Doug's salary doesn't really give us that many more options (and the Spurs might actually see some value in having Doug on the team, even if ST.com doesn't).

It's kind of like being a billionaire with tons of free, liquid assets and thinking about buying a Lambo. Sure, you could sell your Corvette which would in theory give you some more cash to buy that Lambo... but you already have enough cash for it, so selling the Vette is kind of irrelevant.

[Dejounte]

I think you are overvaluing the impact of not having Doug on the books next year. We have so much cap space anyway next season, that freeing up Doug's salary doesn't really give us that many more options (and the Spurs might actually see some value in having Doug on the team, even if ST.com doesn't).

It's kind of like being a billionaire with tons of free, liquid assets and thinking about buying a Lambo. Sure, you could sell your Corvette which would in theory give you some more cash to buy that Lambo... but you already have enough cash for it, so selling the Vette is kind of irrelevant.

Some people are “Anybody-but-Doug” at all costs even if makes no sense.

[DPG21920]

Some people are “Anybody-but-Doug” at all costs even if makes no sense.

Lol it makes total sense - even in Timvps post there is interest in josh and Doug and yes, even though it might not make a big difference, it is a difference and allows SA to reset Doug and easily find a player with that money that fits better longer term.

[Mr. Body]

Utah is $10 million over the cap. They can't absorb Westbrook.

They would trade players.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They would trade players.

Indeed, and they have players that fit the Nets much better. The only obstacle would be Ainge being obsessed with ‘winning’ trades.

[DPG21920]

Me: I hated the Doug signing the moment it happened

ST: DPG, everyone hated it man

Me: Spurs should be opportunistic and look to get out of Dougs deal especially if they will be net winners of picks in a deal as I still hated Doug signing and nothing he’s done has made me feel any different

ST: Dude! Stop trying to trade Doug for no reason! He’s great here!

[baseline bum]

They would trade players.

Which means they can't offer Brooklyn the enormous luxury tax savings the Spurs can.

[DPG21920]

Indeed, and they have players that fit the Nets much better. The only obstacle would be Ainge being obsessed in ‘winning’ trades.

Conley and Beasley don’t fit the Nets better IMO and arent more talented unless you have Clarkson going to Nets instead of LA. But absolutely point remains SA is not needed to make a deal for BKY

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)now (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1622324668047794177)
BREAKING: The Brooklyn Nets are trading Kyrie Irving to the Dallas Mavericks for Spencer Dinwiddie, Dorian Finney-Smith, a first-round and multiple second-round picks, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

[cjw]

The hold up may be how absorbing WBs contract is being argued by LAL as a benefit to SA in the context of SA needing to meet the salary floor.

If LAL can successfully argue these benefits to SA, it might convince SA to ask for less value back in return (read, number of FRPs SA receives)

There are 28 other teams that can dump salary to the Spurs to meet a floor

The Spurs can pick up guys off waivers if they want to meet a floor

This is nothing more than the Lakers FO being delusional and thinking a guy who should be out of the league making $40 million is an asset

[Robz4000]

Welp, that's that.

[MannyIsGod]

Welp ��

[Mr. Body]

Kyrie to Dallas.

None of y'alls scenarios made sense.

[Dejounte]

Dallas is going to ring this year.

[Mr. Body]

Which means they can't offer Brooklyn the enormous luxury tax savings the Spurs can.

They didn't want luxury tax savings.

[Mr. Body]

Dallas is going to ring this year.

Luka and Kyrie are going to punch each other for the ball.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1509990164415893517/qIuzsMq6_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)34s (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1622325968474984448)Pick package to Nets: 2029 first-round pick and two second-round picks, per sources.

[MannyIsGod]

Kyrie to Dallas.

None of y'alls scenarios made sense.
For someone who's wrong way more than they are right you sure are always smug af lol.


I think a lot of scenarios did make plenty of sense but dalla just gave up a lot and Brooklyn was right to jump on this deal. Brooklyn probably just got better.

[DPG21920]

Well - makes sense tbh…BKY saves some money and gets two solid role players and at least a first (not a great first, but a first).

1621617713167704071

An understandable trade for BKY and Mavs IMO. Some risk there for Dallas especially after KP ordeal but they have to do something. But man, if Kyrie poisons the well and makes Luka ask out what a disaster. But I like it for Mavs overall I would say. Talent upgrade for sure even if fit is interesting.

[BatManu20]

So much for that :lol

[DPG21920]

Kyrie to Dallas.

None of y'alls scenarios made sense.

You have the ability of a toddler to think critically lol

[BatManu20]

Assuming Kyrie still leaves this summer, that 2029 pick could be huge for BKN tbh.

[DPG21920]

They didn't want luxury tax savings.

They got some. This deal knocks like 15M off their luxury tax.

[Mr. Body]

For someone who's wrong way more than they are right you sure are always smug af lol.


I think a lot of scenarios did make plenty of sense but dalla just gave up a lot and Brooklyn was right to jump on this deal. Brooklyn probably just got better.

Yeah, all the scenarios that never happened because they didn't make sense. Lol. What a bunch of cockmunches you are.

[Jordan Jackson]

Good for Dallas. Didn’t give up much IMO. Still think they need a bit more up front. Kyrie is a flake but when he’s on probably one of the best guards in the league. Welp - lets see how long this lasts.

ESPN is going to be in shambles. They were begging the Nets to trade Kyrie to the Lakers. They love carrying water for that incompetent franchise.

[offset formation]

Assuming Kyrie still leaves this summer, that 2029 pick could be huge for BKN tbh.

Well considering they don't own the choice or even have any until 2030 presently, yeah 2029 would be huge.

[Mr. Body]

You have the ability of a toddler to think critically lol

I dunno, man. Honestly, your 'let's give up multiple players and spend lots of money for no reason' thing you kept posting over and over was pretty ludicrous. I know this stings, but with BKN gtting a 2029 first out of this, it's clear the LAL wasn't interested in coughing up theirs. Which has been said for ages now.

The SpursTalk braintrust weeps.

[Dverde]

I thought Hardaway Jr or Bert would be in the trade. Mavericks stuck with their bad contacts and Kyrie. I always thought it was between Clippers and Mavericks.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Well that’s a boring trade considering all of those 3 or 4 team fake trades we were making. I’d expect the Nets to be very active and that Dallas pick to be on the table immediately.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, all the scenarios that never happened because they didn't make sense. Lol. What a bunch of cockmunches you are.

Just because something doesn't happen doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

[MannyIsGod]

I dunno, man. Honestly, your 'let's give up multiple players and spend lots of money for no reason' thing you kept posting over and over was pretty ludicrous. I know this stings, but with BKN gtting a 2029 first out of this, it's clear the LAL wasn't interested in coughing up theirs. Which has been said for ages now.

The SpursTalk braintrust weeps.

Bitch you still.think we're not tanking? Why are you this way? Honestly God damn.

[DPG21920]

Well that’s a boring trade considering all of those 3 or 4 team fake trades we were making. I’d expect the Nets to be very active and that Dallas pick to be on the table immediately.

Agree - which makes sense given the reports of BKY not wanting to wait and getting a deal done now. Doing that means you have plenty of time for other deals…They basically are 3 team deals but just not connected if you know what I mean

[mo7888]

Well that’s a boring trade considering all of those 3 or 4 team fake trades we were making. I’d expect the Nets to be very active and that Dallas pick to be on the table immediately.

Probably gonna want to move Harris and bring that tax bill down a little more.

[DPG21920]

I dunno, man. Honestly, your 'let's give up multiple players and spend lots of money for no reason' thing you kept posting over and over was pretty ludicrous. I know this stings, but with BKN gtting a 2029 first out of this, it's clear the LAL wasn't interested in coughing up theirs. Which has been said for ages now.

The SpursTalk braintrust weeps.

What spend lots of money? You keep saying that and none of my deals had SA spending ANY money lol

[MannyIsGod]

I'm just wondering if mr. Body still thinks the spurs aren't trading DJM.

[baseline bum]

Well fuck

[Rocalcio]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg
Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)Sham (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17672)sCharania
now (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1622324668047794177)
BREAKING: The Brooklyn Nets are trading Kyrie Irving to the Dallas Mavericks for Spencer Dinwiddie, Dorian Finney-Smith, a first-round and multiple second-round picks, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

Thread can be closed.

[DPG21920]

LA very much can still trade with SA. They may only want to give up one pick and can cut BKY out and do something like WB for Doug/Richardson/Collins and a first. Still all on the table but who knows. Trades are hard obviously.

And BKY included Morris in the deal so DAL took on 40M and sent out 32 so BKY definitely got some solid tax savings (like 20M)

[cjw]

The Lakers never had a chance :spin this may make them even more desperate

Now that this domino has finally fallen, the rest will start soon

[Rocalcio]

Cuban wanted a big name, but I’m not sure he’ll fit with Doncic.

[ace3g]

Markieff Morris also going to the Mavs`

[MannyIsGod]

LA very much can still trade with SA. They may only want to give up one pick and can cut BKY out and do something like WB for Doug/Richardson/Collins and a first. Still all on the table but who knows. Trades are hard obviously.

And BKY included Morris in the deal so DAL took on 40M and sent out 32 so BKY definitely got some solid tax savings (like 20M)
Just a good.trade all around for Brooklyn imo. I think them getting positive value and saving money for that cancer is amazing.

[baseline bum]

Assuming Kyrie still leaves this summer, that 2029 pick could be huge for BKN tbh.

I would have wanted the 27 pick unprotected in case Doncic walks. Though the 29 pick should be excellent if Doncic walks also.

[DPG21920]

Just a good.trade all around for Brooklyn imo. I think them getting positive value and saving money for that cancer is amazing.

Agreed and I highly doubt they do a trade like this without KD telling him he is cool for rest of this season. IMO signals KD will not be moved this deadline and they re-evaluate off season.

Once news broke of Kyrie I immediately Dallas, Suns, Lakers and POR

[Degoat]

The fact that, that was the deal imo means the lakers aren’t offering up both firsts at all. Could See Lebron forcing their hand in next few days for something because Spencer, Dorian, and 1 first is what got that deal done.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Love that Sean Marks warned teams (Lakers) that they'll move Irving quickly and he followed up, thus cutting them off.

LeBron will definitely be very pissed off at Pelinka :) Lakers may approach the deadline with more emotion than sense. Spurs should be there for them, waiting to help.

[baseline bum]

Just a good.trade all around for Brooklyn imo. I think them getting positive value and saving money for that cancer is amazing.

Especially because that pick is going to be huge if Doncic walks. And I'm not expecting Kyrie to be enough to keep Doncic around with the way he loves to tank franchises. Bet Kyrie walks to the Lakers this summer.

[DPG21920]

Love that Sean Marks warned teams (Lakers) that they'll move Irving quickly and he followed up, thus cutting them off.

LeBron will definitely be very pissed off at Pelinka :) Lakers may approach the deadline with more emotion than sense. Spurs should be there for them, waiting to help.

Spurs are still there to help - just pick up the phone lol

[Dverde]

LeBron probably back to making calls for other players to demand a trade.

[mo7888]

LA very much can still trade with SA. They may only want to give up one pick and can cut BKY out and do something like WB for Doug/Richardson/Collins and a first. Still all on the table but who knows. Trades are hard obviously.

And BKY included Morris in the deal so DAL took on 40M and sent out 32 so BKY definitely got some solid tax savings (like 20M)

The Lakers struggle between LeBron and their FO is one to watch.... I also think LA has an interest in Jak but, I'm not sure they'll part with what it'll take to get a Jak, McD, Jrich package.

[baseline bum]

Can't believe Dallas gave up so much unless Irving is ready to sign an extension right now.

[baseline bum]

The Lakers struggle between LeBron and their FO is one to watch.... I also think LA has an interest in Jak but, I'm not sure they'll part with what it'll take to get a Jak, McD, Jrich package.

Of course they're not going to if they wouldn't give up an unprotected first for Irving.

[baseline bum]

Dallas is going to ring this year.

Not a great fit and he walks to LA in the summer.

[td4mvp2k]

lakers :lol

[MannyIsGod]

The fact that, that was the deal imo means the lakers aren’t offering up both firsts at all. Could See Lebron forcing their hand in next few days for something because Spencer, Dorian, and 1 first is what got that deal done.

I don't know that's the case. They have to keep KD happy so they can't just value picks over everything. They got two good players and a pick which should be enough to keep KD from losing his shit.

[baseline bum]

LA very much can still trade with SA. They may only want to give up one pick and can cut BKY out and do something like WB for Doug/Richardson/Collins and a first. Still all on the table but who knows. Trades are hard obviously.

And BKY included Morris in the deal so DAL took on 40M and sent out 32 so BKY definitely got some solid tax savings (like 20M)

If they weren't giving up their picks for Irving they're definitely not for Josh Richardson.

[Ariel]

Especially because that pick is going to be huge if Doncic walks.
I doubt Brooklyn sits on that pick for long.

[Ditty]

Mavs were not winning anything meaningful with what they had right now. It’s probably a still long shot they win a title but it’s a shot.

[Degoat]

I don't know that's the case. They have to keep KD happy so they can't just value picks over everything. They got two good players and a pick which should be enough to keep KD from losing his shit.

It’s not a bad deal, I just think it means the lakers aren’t offering both picks. I think Sean Marks might have more deals up his sleeve tbh

[baseline bum]

I doubt Brooklyn sits on that pick for long.

Will still be a pretty nice trade piece if you think Cuban won't be able to put talent around Doncic. Which isn't a bad bet considering the dregs he put around Dirk at the end of his career.

[MannyIsGod]

Especially because that pick is going to be huge if Doncic walks. And I'm not expecting Kyrie to be enough to keep Doncic around with the way he loves to tank franchises. Bet Kyrie walks to the Lakers this summer.

Definitely think this blows up in the Mavs face. Kyrie doesn't know how not to blow shit up.

[scott]

Bummer the spurs couldn't capitalize on this, oh well.

As I've read this thread though... I think we are all shortchanging the Laker's ability to think critically. YES... they should have to give up future unprotected FRPs to get off Westbrook and get assets... but surely they also know that they're going to be in a world of hurt around 2027 and 2029, thus aren't going to just give those up so that they can be the 7 seed. It is Laker's best interest to just roll with Westbrook for the rest of the year.

[scott]

Definitely think this blows up in the Mavs face. Kyrie doesn't know how not to blow shit up.

I also doubt Kyrie wants to be in Dallas.

[itzsoweezee]

Glad to see Dallas making this trade. That team isn’t going anywhere. They’re about to have the worst defense in the league

[baseline bum]

Bummer the spurs couldn't capitalize on this, oh well.

As I've read this thread though... I think we are all shortchanging the Laker's ability to think critically. YES... they should have to give up future unprotected FRPs to get off Westbrook and get assets... but surely they also know that they're going to be in a world of hurt around 2027 and 2029, thus aren't going to just give those up so that they can be the 7 seed. It is Laker's best interest to just roll with Westbrook for the rest of the year.

If I'm the Lakers I'm thinking the west is wide open, especially with Curry getting hurt again. And I have already mortgaged the future anyways to get James, Davis, and Westbrook. That Kyrie when he wants to be there might be good for a couple of shots at a title before it all falls apart again. They had to go all out to win now since when's the next chance they'd have a trio as talented as James, Irving, and Davis without having to gut the rest of their roster?

[baseline bum]

I also doubt Kyrie wants to be in Dallas.

If the Mavs can ink him to that $200 million extension right away it might work for a couple of years and maybe get another WCF appearance out of it. But damn if they don't already have Irving agreeing to that extension he's gone for LA this summer.

[DPG21920]

The Lakers struggle between LeBron and their FO is one to watch.... I also think LA has an interest in Jak but, I'm not sure they'll part with what it'll take to get a Jak, McD, Jrich package.

For that - with the money it would save LA, 1 unprotected first & 1 lightly protected (top 5) and a 2nd I would be happy.

[scott]

If the Mavs can ink him to that $200 million extension right away it might work for a couple of years and maybe get another WCF appearance out of it. But damn if they don't already have Irving agreeing to that extension he's gone for LA this summer.

Dallas is a great place for Kyrie to indulge in his love of conspiracy theory, at least.

[Russ]

timvp gets the scoop again.

The one prediction (or at least inside info) in our forum that was right -- Kyrie likely to be dealt well before the trading deadline.

[DPG21920]

If they weren't giving up their picks for Irving they're definitely not for Josh Richardson.

There’s a difference in giving up 2 unprotected firsts and one…but perhaps now they give up protected firsts instead.

[scott]

1622335557245222917

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1622335898040864775

[baseline bum]

For that - with the money it would save LA, 1 unprotected first & 1 lightly protected (top 5) and a 2nd I would be happy.

They could have had Irving for that. They're not doing that move for Poeltl and Richardson.

[DPG21920]

Bummer the spurs couldn't capitalize on this, oh well.

As I've read this thread though... I think we are all shortchanging the Laker's ability to think critically. YES... they should have to give up future unprotected FRPs to get off Westbrook and get assets... but surely they also know that they're going to be in a world of hurt around 2027 and 2029, thus aren't going to just give those up so that they can be the 7 seed. It is Laker's best interest to just roll with Westbrook for the rest of the year.

Agree. But this then kills any credibility LA has moving forward with stars. Lakers were known for winning and landing stars. Then you become a shit show for 6 years in the lottery until LeBron saves you and you let him rot. RIP any remaining Laker narrative and advantage after burning LeBron like that.

[DPG21920]

If the Mavs can ink him to that $200 million extension right away it might work for a couple of years and maybe get another WCF appearance out of it. But damn if they don't already have Irving agreeing to that extension he's gone for LA this summer.

They don’t. Reported no work on a deal and it will be evaluated after the season.

[KingKev]

Lol Irving apparently gets a 2mm trade bonus.

This saves BK about 28mm in tax savings while it costs Dallas about the same in higher taxes

[baseline bum]

1622335557245222917

He gone :lmao

WTF was Dallas thinking here?

[DPG21920]

They could have had Irving for that. They're not doing that move for Poeltl and Richardson.

Maybe - or maybe Dinwiddie + Finney are valued high enough that getting that lightly protect extra first wasn’t worth it. I tend to agree with you but I still see a path to Lakers/Spurs doing a deal for a first.

[rascal]

Spurs better make some trade. If they do nothing then they failed.

[mo7888]

For that - with the money it would save LA, 1 unprotected first & 1 lightly protected (top 5) and a 2nd I would be happy.

2027 unprotected + 2029 top 5 protected + 2nd... converting to top 3 protected in 2030.... I'd do that.... I'd also be willing to do 2027 unprotected + 2028 swap + 2029 top 10 protected..

[baseline bum]

Maybe - or maybe Dinwiddie + Finney are valued high enough that getting that lightly protect extra first wasn’t worth it. I tend to agree with you but I still see a path to Lakers/Spurs doing a deal for a first.

I don't. Poeltl and Josh Richardson aren't moving them up into title contention like a happy Irving could have. Poeltl for a highly protected first from LA is a no-go, would rather just try to re-sign Jakob in the summer.

[heyheymymy]

damn that DFS contract is kinda hefty

[baseline bum]

2027 unprotected + 2029 top 5 protected + 2nd... converting to top 3 protected in 2030.... I'd do that.... I'd also be willing to do 2027 unprotected + 2028 swap + 2029 top 10 protected..

That's a pipe dream when they wouldn't make an offer like that for Irving.

[rascal]

Because they are completely replaceable maybe outside of Tre and even that is not a huge deal to me with all the picks and cap space SA has moving forward. What is harder to get: an unprotected first from a team with a history of sucking like LA or finding players of Doug/Josh/Tre/Collins caliber when you have max money and picks? Seems pretty straightforward.

Again to be clear: I am painting sort of “worst case scenario” where I would still be very happy. Of course I would prefer to get this deal done and keep Tre or get more than the one pick. But if you’re trying to argue the difference in celebrating landing an incredibly valuable pick and begin upset is the inclusion of Tre? Then ya, I really don’t understand that POV

Exactly
People still want and think the Spurs are going to land multiple firsts for their backup players.

[scott]

He gone :lmao

WTF was Dallas thinking here?

It does open up a lot of Cap Space for Dallas next summer if he leaves, so in many ways this trade also acted as a salary dump for Dallas.

[mo7888]

That's a pipe dream when they wouldn't make an offer like for Irving.

I get where you're coming from... I am just considering that there could be other motivations at play here.... maybe LA didn't want to give up picks for a rental and knew they weren't extending kyrie for 200M... maybe they think kyrie isn't enough to get it done...maybe they are trying to show that LeBron doesn't run the show..... there's just to many things going on there for me to take the simple route and conclude that because they didn't do anything to bring in kyrie it means they won't do anything...

[Cabrito]

Getting rid of flat earther and Morris in one fell swoop, good job Marks.

[Chinook]

Dallas has one unprotected pick available in 2027, and they could try to swing a deal with New York to get their 2025 pick back. Due to their situation, there isn't as much of a premium on the pick being unprotected. I wouldn't be surprised to see another big move with the rest of the picks. If New York is active with Toronto and Phoenix, I could see something like:

Ayton to Dallas
Unprotected Dallas picks in 2023 and 2025, an unprotected Phoenix pick in 2023, Fournier, Wood and Powell to Toronto
OG to Phoenix
Trent to New York

Dallas gets their "third star" at the cost of an additional first
Toronto gets their three unprotected picks
Phoenix gets their coveted wing with only losing one first
New York gets their guard with only giving up a protected pick (from their perspective)

It seems pretty neat and tidy, and in this scenario both the Suns and Raptors could be looking at Poeltl. It could be something the Spurs jump into.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

For that - with the money it would save LA, 1 unprotected first & 1 lightly protected (top 5) and a 2nd I would be happy.

Lakers don't really have much of a leeway to protect their picks if they want to trade both - should they protect the 2027 pick it makes the 2029 non-tradable, unless it's a weird protection that immediately turns into 2nds. Also the 2029 pick can't be protected because it's the last pick they can trade, they can't put protections into the 2030 pick, so the only way to protect it would be if it turns into a 2029 2nd rounder.

This is why they probably only have the 2027 pick on the table, and with protections, which won't buy them too much as they've found out.

[R. DeMurre]

At the very least, it'll be entertaining to see what happens in Dallas... Kyrie is such a fascinating character: his handle is mesmerizing to watch, one of the greatest ever, he's intellectually curious about the world around him, and his declaration that the world is flat is only the 3rd or 4th strangest thing he has said in the last five years... Dallas loses two relatively replaceable guys and has a slot open for a big free agent is Kyrie doesn't return. The whole thing is crazy, and the idea of Cuban, Doncic, and Kyrie sitting down and having beers together is kinda an immediate Reality TV blockbuster. :lol

[DPG21920]

It does open up a lot of Cap Space for Dallas next summer if he leaves, so in many ways this trade also acted as a salary dump for Dallas.

ya - Dinwiddie and Finney are solid, but not so sure that Dallas can’t find others with that money that make it net/net not a big deal other than that first they gave up

[baseline bum]

It does open up a lot of Cap Space for Dallas next summer if he leaves, so in many ways this trade also acted as a salary dump for Dallas.

It only gets them maybe $23 million or so to play with this summer if Irving walks. They would have had to salary dump Bertans or Hardaway too to open up max level capspace.

[DPG21920]

Dallas has one unprotected pick available in 2027, and they could try to swing a deal with New York to get their 2025 pick back. Due to their situation, there isn't as much of a premium on the pick being unprotected. I wouldn't be surprised to see another big move with the rest of the picks. If New York is active with Toronto and Phoenix, I could see something like:

Ayton to Dallas
Unprotected Dallas picks in 2023 and 2025, an unprotected Phoenix pick in 2023, Fournier, Wood and Powell to Toronto
OG to Phoenix
Trent to New York

Dallas gets their "third star" at the cost of an additional first
Toronto gets their three unprotected picks
Phoenix gets their coveted wing with only losing one first
New York gets their guard with only giving up a protected pick (from their perspective)

It seems pretty neat and tidy, and in this scenario both the Suns and Raptors could be looking at Poeltl. It could be something the Spurs jump into.

That’s good and makes a lot of sense of those teams IMO….just depends on how all in some are

[DPG21920]

Lakers don't really have much of a leeway to protect their picks if they want to trade both - should they protect the 2027 pick it makes the 2029 non-tradable, unless it's a weird protection that immediately turns into 2nds. Also the 2029 pick can't be protected because it's the last pick they can trade, they can't put protections into the 2030 pick, so the only way to protect it would be if it turns into a 2029 2nd rounder.

This is why they probably only have the 2027 pick on the table, and with protections, which won't buy them too much as they've found out.

Hopefully it buys them Spurs players for Westbrook lol

[DPG21920]

It only gets them maybe $23 million or so to play with this summer if Irving walks. They would have had to salary dump Bertans or Hardaway too to open up max level capspace.

Dinwiddie and Finney aren’t max players and Finney deal was questionable value. So they need 23M to find one player that is better than those 2 which is totally doable.

[KingKev]

It only gets them maybe $23 million or so to play with this summer if Irving walks. They would have had to salary dump Bertans or Hardaway too to open up max level capspace.

exactly and that also means renouncing Christian Woods. If they want to keep Woods they will only have exception money even if they lose Kyrie.

Very risky trade for Dallas but he probably will need them to facilitate a S&T if he does want to leave.

[baseline bum]

Dinwiddie and Finney aren’t max players and Finney deal was questionable value. So they need 23M to find one player that is better than those 2 which is totally doable.

$23 million would probably get them Poeltl and a ninth or tenth man in their rotation next summer, and they'll have given up a pick that is almost sure to be top 5 when Doncic walks in the summer of 26.

[KingKev]

Dinwiddie and Finney aren’t max players and Finney deal was questionable value. So they need 23M to find one player that is better than those 2 which is totally doable.

That 23m includes the assumption they renounce Wood. So 23mm to replace Wood, DFS, Dinwiddie

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The acquisition of Finney-Smith makes Joe Harris's role less relevant, so if they're still in the mood to save money (unlikely, they'll probably look to get one more rotation guy) there are lots of deals to be made with the Spurs, such as something like Harris, Mills, Sharpe + a pick to Spurs, Collins + Keita or Roby to Nets. This would save them a ton of money without losing anyone important from their eventual playoff rotation.

[baseline bum]

exactly and that also means renouncing Christian Woods. If they want to keep Woods they will only have exception money even if they lose Kyrie.

Very risky trade for Dallas but he probably will need them to facilitate a S&T if he does want to leave.

Lakers will have nearly $40 million in capspace in the summer so they won't give up anything useful in sign and trade. Don't know WTF Dallas was thinking here.

[cd98]

Dallas is a great place for Kyrie to indulge in his love of conspiracy theory, at least.

Yeah, maybe now he can spend his energy trying to figure out who plotted the assassination of Kennedy.

[CGD]

I like it for Dallas, even though I think Kyrie will head to Los Angeles this summer. Those other two players werent part of the solution going forward and they were eating space. If I’m them I’m also trying to move hardaway.

[DPG21920]

$23 million would probably get them Poeltl and a ninth or tenth man in their rotation next summer, and they'll have given up a pick that is almost sure to be top 5 when Doncic walks in the summer of 26.

They don’t need 2 guys, just one quality guy IMO.

[baseline bum]

I like it for Dallas, even though I think Kyrie will head to Los Angeles this summer. Those other two players werent part of the solution going forward and they were eating space.

They gave up a pick that has a high chance of being top 5 in 2029.

[cd98]

It's not a bad gamble by Dallas. They give up a late first round pick. They get a player that can flat out score (if he plays). And the players they gave up are good, but not stars and not going to help Dallas get past the second round. Luka and Kyrie should at least be interesting. Yes, they suck defensively, but no one on that team could score but Luka. Now they have a go-to scorer and I'm guessing Kyrie has more respect for Kidd than Nash, as silly as that sounds.

[DPG21920]

Lakers will have nearly $40 million in capspace in the summer so they won't give up anything useful in sign and trade. Don't know WTF Dallas was thinking here.

I don’t know that LA will especially with Rui trade..

[baseline bum]

They don’t need 2 guys, just one quality guy IMO.

Who are they getting for $23 million? This move is absolute lunacy to give up that pick. Do you really think they're keeping Doncic with this kind of move if Irving walks?

[baseline bum]

I don’t know that LA will especially with Rui trade..

They can renounce him.

[spurraider21]

Assuming Kyrie still leaves this summer, that 2029 pick could be huge for BKN tbh.
Even if he signs a 3-4 year deal he’d be gone by 29

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It's not a bad gamble by Dallas. They give up a late first round pick. They get a player that can flat out score (if he plays). And the players they gave up are good, but not stars and not going to help Dallas get past the second round. Luka and Kyrie should at least be interesting. Yes, they suck defensively, but no one on that team could score but Luka. Now they have a go-to scorer and I'm guessing Kyrie has more respect for Kidd than Nash, as silly as that sounds.

They gave up an unprotected 2029 pick. It's a golden ticket, by then Luka might be elsewhere or north of 350lbs.

[baseline bum]

It's not a bad gamble by Dallas. They give up a late first round pick.

They gave up an unprotected pick that's going to be extremely valuable if they can't keep Doncic.

[cd98]

OK well the 1st round pick is a little risky, but Dallas has kept their stars once they get them. Euros don't tend to ask for trades or dump the team that shows loyalty like the American players do, but Luka isn't your typical Euro player. So it will be interesting to see, but Cuban finds way to pay guys without "paying" guys. That said, Dallas has been awful at signing free agents. I don't know why because the Cowboys do just fine. But the best NBA free agency guys don't go to Dallas. The only way to surround Luka with talent is going to be through trades and Dallas rolled the dice on this one.

But if Kyrie can't get motivated to play with Durant...

[Chinook]

I don't see Harris and DFS as playing the same position. I think Harris is a bit more important now because Dinwiddie isn't as dynamic as Irving. In reality, the Nets could likely stand to thin out the Mills/Harris/Dinwiddie/Curry/Thomas rotation. DFS/Simmons/O'Neal isn't exactly an efficient use of roster spots as well. I don't necessarily not think the Spurs can help them out, but I don't think a trade directly between those teams is ideal. If the Nets can figure out how to turn Simmons' contract and the meager assets they have into another piece, then the Spurs could be the team that absorbs the extra salary. They'd have to value Ben more highly that most fans do now, which I don't know that they do.

The Nets have three tradeable picks right: Philly's 2027 protected first and two of their 2028 and 2029 firsts and the 2029 Dallas first. That and Cam Thomas is a fair bit of value, assuming they can get out of Simmons cheaply. I don't know if any team is selling a player good enough to make that worth it. Next summer, the Nets would be able to add a fourth pick to their offer for someone like Lillard. They may not want to move Simmons now regardless to preserve that salary slot for a later trade.

[KingKev]

I like it for Dallas, even though I think Kyrie will head to Los Angeles this summer. Those other two players werent part of the solution going forward and they were eating space.

If he wants to sign for 25mm. He won’t be able to get max money from LA, not even in S&T. Lakers won’t have the assets to make it work.

Having Russ’ contract role off doesn’t leave the Lakers in great shape next free agency.

[baseline bum]

They gave up an unprotected 2029 pick. It's a golden ticket, by then Luka might be elsewhere or north of 350lbs.

Yeah about the only better pick Brooklyn could have gotten than that would be an unprotected 2027 Mavs pick. I understand taking that desperation swing to keep Luka happy if Dallas thinks Irving will sign an extension but WTF when they don't even know that he's interested in signing a FA deal with them this summer. This is Cuban playing Russian Roulette.

[baseline bum]

If he wants to sign for 25mm. He won’t be able to get max money from LA, not even in S&T. Lakers won’t have the assets to make it work.

Having Russ’ contract role off doesn’t leave the Lakers in great shape next free agency.

Only guys LA has under contract aside from James and Davis are two small money scrubs in Damian Jones and Max Christie for a grand total of $4.3 million between them. That won't leave them the money to offer Irving a 35% max deal, but it'll get them very close to being able to offer a 30% max deal on a $134 million cap.

[KingKev]

Lakers will have nearly $40 million in capspace in the summer so they won't give up anything useful in sign and trade. Don't know WTF Dallas was thinking here.

It’s more like 25ish. Could have sworn I read somewhere you need to have min cap holds for a 12 man roster so if they renounce everyone but AD/LBJ I believe there are still min cap holds for 10 slots at 1.8mm or so…but I could be wrong

[baseline bum]

OK well the 1st round pick is a little risky, but Dallas has kept their stars once they get them. Euros don't tend to ask for trades or dump the team that shows loyalty like the American players do, but Luka isn't your typical Euro player. So it will be interesting to see, but Cuban finds way to pay guys without "paying" guys. That said, Dallas has been awful at signing free agents. I don't know why because the Cowboys do just fine. But the best NBA free agency guys don't go to Dallas. The only way to surround Luka with talent is going to be through trades and Dallas rolled the dice on this one.

But if Kyrie can't get motivated to play with Durant...

I don't see Doncic staying if he's in the same hopeless situation LeBron was in his first go-around in Cleveland.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It’s more like 25ish. Could have sworn I read somewhere you need to have min cap holds for a 12 man roster so if they renounce everyone but AD/LBJ I believe there are still min cap holds for 10 slots at 1.8mm or so…but I could be wrong

Yeah - roster charges are about $1 mil for this season, probably a little more for next, so the Lakers would have about 8 or 9 of those on their cap before they could use any of their cap space. They'll also have a first round pick, which also comes with its own cap hold.

[baseline bum]

It’s more 25ish. If they renounce everyone but AD/LBJ I beleive there are still min cap holds for slots at 1.8mm or so…

I was underestimating cap holds, you were overestimating them. They're $1 million this year, and project to $1.1 million the next. So at seven empty roster spots under 11 at $1.1 million per hold on a $134 million cap the Lakers would be looking at about $34.7 million of capspace, which would allow them to make Irving an offer of 4 years, $147 million. So that does give Dallas some more breathing room to sign him than I was anticipating.

[spurraider21]

Lakers cheaped out again. They basically decided to throw the season in exchange for the possibility of signing kyrie. They’re on a pretty short timer so throwing a season is a massive risk for them with Lebron still at this level

[KingKev]

I was underestimating cap holds, you were overestimating them. They're $1 million this year, and project to $1.1 million the next. So at seven empty roster spots under 11 at $1.1 million per hold on a $134 million cap the Lakers would be looking at about $34.7 million of capspace, which would allow them to make Irving an offer of 4 years, $147 million. So that does give Dallas some more breathing room to sign him than I was anticipating.

Thanks for clearing that up. Who knows where Kyrie’s head will be at by then. Comforting knowing that LBJ’s last few years he is going to have a helluva time getting a full team around him and it is his own fault.

Lakers really should be shooting to dump Russ for 2-3 contracts that can later be flipped so they can stay well over the cap.

[TD 21]

Makes sense. Dinwiddie was as close as the Nets were getting to a star and this might be enough to keep Durant invested through the remainder of the season while arming them with more assets to peddle for a second star (Beal?) in the off season.

Finney-Smith's role will be difficult to replace for the Mavericks, but it was a swing they had to take and has the potential to propel them into championship contention.

People never learn: The number one currency in star trades, is depending on the situation, having a current or projected if not star, at least pseudo one that's out of conference.

The Clippers, Lakers, Heat and Suns (Paul has too much equity built up to think they were going to ignore his wishes and send him far away from his family) didn't have that.

[DPG21920]

They can renounce him.

Sure but most signs point to them trading with intent to keep

[baseline bum]

Lakers cheaper out again. They basically decided to throw the season in exchange for the possibility of signing kyrie. They’re on a pretty short timer so throwing a season is a massive risk for them with Lebron still at this level

Fucking half measure. They already mortgaged their future to win now so yeah I don't get throwing away this year when there's a great chance we never see another season anywhere close to this out of LeBron. Especially with Curry hurt again, the path to a title is right there for them. Plus they need to renounce Hachimura and Walker if they want to sign Irving next summer while they had Bird rights to keep Hachimura and Early Bird to keep Walker, Beverley, Schroeder, Reeves, etc. So they could have had Irving this year and not have to gut their depth for next season. Stupid nonaction by the Lakers.

[cd98]

Makes sense. Dinwiddie was as close as the Nets were getting to a star and this might be enough to keep Durant invested through the remainder of the season while arming them with more assets to peddle for a second star (Beal?) in the off season.

Finney-Smith's role will be difficult to replace for the Mavericks, but it was a swing they had to take and has the potential to propel them into championship contention.

People never learn: The number one currency in star trades, is depending on the situation, having a current or projected if not star, at least pseudo one that's out of conference.

The Clippers, Lakers, Heat and Suns (Paul has too much equity built up to think they were going to ignore his wishes and send him far away from his family) didn't have that.

An injured, multi-year contract Durant does not have a lot of leverage to ask for a trade right now. He might. But Brooklyn isn't going to agree to anything that doesn't blow them away. And it will be hard to find a team that can pay more than the Gobert ransom. To be honest, Dimwiddie isn't better than Kyrie, but he plays and you can count on him playing if healthy. I would think that's better than Kyrie at this point. Who would I want to re-sign knowing what we know about Kyrie.

[TD 21]

An injured, multi-year contract Durant does not have a lot of leverage to ask for a trade right now. He might. But Brooklyn isn't going to agree to anything that doesn't blow them away. And it will be hard to find a team that can pay more than the Gobert ransom. To be honest, Dimwiddie isn't better than Kyrie, but he plays and you can count on him playing if healthy. I would think that's better than Kyrie at this point. Who would I want to re-sign knowing what we know about Kyrie.

Who knows obviously, but I'd lean towards he won't right now either even though their upside is no longer so much as puncher's chance at a championship.

But come the off season, if they can't land a second star (Beal's onerous contract, durability issues and no trade clause probably make him the best bet) it likely becomes inevitable.

Trail Blazers check the boxes. Desperate, out of conference and can offer a young, pseudo star in Simons with plenty of team control as well as possibly Grant in a sign and trade to headline the package for a Nets team likely to prioritize remaining "competitive" considering they don't control much of their draft going forward (Harden trade).

[rascal]

Multiple individuals I have talked to tell me the Nets are warning teams that they will move quickly to trade Irving and won’t necessarily wait until Thursday’s trade deadline to strike a deal.

Spot on

[rascal]

I'm just wondering if mr. Body still thinks the spurs aren't trading DJM.

Shh, you might hurt his ego.

[lmbebo]

So are the Spurs less busy now? jk

[exstatic]

Kyrie to Dallas.

None of y'alls scenarios made sense.

LOLLakers. LOLLeBron. This is how he ends, and I love it.

[cd98]

Multiple individuals I have talked to tell me the Nets are warning teams that they will move quickly to trade Irving and won’t necessarily wait until Thursday’s trade deadline to strike a deal.

Spot on

I'll bet it was because they were worried he would act crazy and tank his trade value or that he would say he would only play for the Lakers or something like that.

[gambit1990]

i love kyrie going to dallas.

i think it will work really well at first. and then not. kyrie will definitely get jealous of luka's attention.

i love this trade unless the mavs make another move that makes them a serious contender. kyrie doesn't deserve to jump ship and be on a great team all of a sudden.

[cjw]

Having Russ’ contract role off doesn’t leave the Lakers in great shape next free agency.

This is a really important point given they will not have significant cap space if Westbrook walks AND they plan on retaining rights on players like Rui. He’s not your typical expensive guy that you can bring back assets for in a sign and trade because he’s probably a MLE at best (may be and should be much less). So they can’t replace that salary slot. Better to bring back guys on smaller contracts that they can move next year. Maybe break Russ into three guys making $12 million each that can be in rotation.

The smarter move would be to punt the season and get rid of everyone outside of Lebron and Davis (can keep Damion Jones’ cheap contract) and operate with $45 million or so of cap space. They could craft a decent rotation that doesn’t consist of retreads with that kind of money plus vet min guys.

Only need to move Russ if GM Lebron insists on bringing back assets for this year.

[tonight...you]

Even in an optimal (which is not very optimal) situation for the Lakers moving forward are they going to gather ring-chasers at the mins for mummy-meat Lebron at this point next year.

[DPG21920]

Fucking half measure. They already mortgaged their future to win now so yeah I don't get throwing away this year when there's a great chance we never see another season anywhere close to this out of LeBron. Especially with Curry hurt again, the path to a title is right there for them. Plus they need to renounce Hachimura and Walker if they want to sign Irving next summer while they had Bird rights to keep Hachimura and Early Bird to keep Walker, Beverley, Schroeder, Reeves, etc. So they could have had Irving this year and not have to gut their depth for next season. Stupid nonaction by the Lakers.

Lakers DID in fact offer both picks per Shams and Stein and BKY didnt want to send him to LA because they wanted win now players + picks and LA didnt have that.

[baseline bum]

Lakers DID in fact offer both picks per Shams and Stein and BKY didnt want to send him to LA because they wanted win now players + picks and LA didnt have that.

With what kind of protection though? If they were lottery protected or top 10 protected of course Brooklyn isn't taking their trash.

[Degoat]

Supposedly the Suns offered Chris Paul and Crowder, kinda surprised if that’s true

[DPG21920]

With what kind of protection though? If they were lottery protected or top 10 protected of course Brooklyn isn't taking their trash.

None it appears:

“ The Lakers offered the Nets a package of Westbrook and two first-round picks in 2027 and 2029 for Irving in the last two days, sources with knowledge of the discussions said — to which the Nets informed the Lakers that in order to make an offer to get in the Irving sweepstakes they would require all of their young players such as Austin Reaves and Max Christie and pick swaps in addition to Westbrook and the two first-round picks.

The Nets ultimately moved on from a possible Lakers framework to choose Dallas.”

[DPG21920]

Reported that BKY owner just didnt want to send Kyrie to LA lol

[KobesAchilles]

I wonder if the Lakers actually did that or are just leaking that to Shams so Lebron won’t be upset

[Seventyniner]

Good, the Lakers' 2027 and 2029 picks aren't completely off the table. Doesn't mean they will give those up just to turn Westbrook into semi-useful players, but at least they aren't considering those picks to be absolutely untouchable.

[baseline bum]

None it appears:

“ The Lakers offered the Nets a package of Westbrook and two first-round picks in 2027 and 2029 for Irving in the last two days, sources with knowledge of the discussions said — to which the Nets informed the Lakers that in order to make an offer to get in the Irving sweepstakes they would require all of their young players such as Austin Reaves and Max Christie and pick swaps in addition to Westbrook and the two first-round picks.

The Nets ultimately moved on from a possible Lakers framework to choose Dallas.”

Shams isn't saying anything about protection.

[exstatic]

This is a really important point given they will not have significant cap space if Westbrook walks AND they plan on retaining rights on players like Rui. He’s not your typical expensive guy that you can bring back assets for in a sign and trade because he’s probably a MLE at best (may be and should be much less). So they can’t replace that salary slot. Better to bring back guys on smaller contracts that they can move next year. Maybe break Russ into three guys making $12 million each that can be in rotation.

The smarter move would be to punt the season and get rid of everyone outside of Lebron and Davis (can keep Damion Jones’ cheap contract) and operate with $45 million or so of cap space. They could craft a decent rotation that doesn’t consist of retreads with that kind of money plus vet min guys.

Only need to move Russ if GM Lebron insists on bringing back assets for this year.

They would get a trade exception that is good for one year just for trading him into cap space.

They can’t generate $45 M in cap room. You’re forgetting the 10 empty slot charges of 1.8M each. You have to subtract that from the 45M, making it $27M.

[DPG21920]

Shams isn't saying anything about protection.

That’s the point - normally if they are protected they mention “they offered protected picks”. IMO if you don’t say that it should be implied it’s unprotected. Especially since they would have been told they had an unprotected pick offer from Dallas you have to beat…

[baseline bum]

They would get a trade exception that is good for one year just for trading him into cap space.

They can’t generate $45 M in cap room. You’re forgetting the 10 empty slot charges of 1.8M each. You have to subtract that from the 45M, making it $27M.

The 2023-24 cap hold is $1.1 million for every empty roster spot under 11, and the Lakers would have 7 of those if they renounce everyone not under contract. Makes their capspace about $34.7 million next year under a $134 million cap.

[baseline bum]

That’s the point - normally if they are protected they mention “they offered protected picks”. IMO if you don’t say that it should be implied it’s unprotected. Especially since they would have been told they had an unprotected pick offer from Dallas you have to beat…

Disagree, all the media talked about how the Spurs got three first round picks for Murray despite the fact the Charlotte one is so heavily protected it has a pretty good chance of never conveying and being converted into two seconds.

[DPG21920]

Disagree, all the media talked about how the Spurs got three first round picks for Murray despite the fact the Charlotte one is so heavily protected it has a pretty good chance of never conveying and being converted into two seconds.

I mean most of the Spurs picks for Murray are unprotected

[baseline bum]

I mean most of the Spurs picks for Murray are unprotected

And one has a good chance of never conveying so it's not even really three firsts. I don't know your point here. Do you disagree that the media called the Charlotte pick a first repeatedly while often glossing over its protection? If so then your point about assuming the picks were unprotected because Shams never mentioned any protection doesn't make much sense.

[DPG21920]

And one has a good chance of never conveying so it's not even really three firsts. I don't know your point here. Do you disagree that the media called the Charlotte pick a first repeatedly while often glossing over its protection? If so then your point about assuming the picks were unprotected because Shams never mentioned any protection doesn't make much sense.

So we just ignore that the report was Dallas sent a first to BKY here and then later…it was confirmed no protections as originally reported. And that same language was used for the Murray trade and…the only outlier was one pick?

So 1 in like 5 picks it that verbiage has been used on has ended up not being fully non protected & with BKY knowing they had an non protected pick from Dallas on deck and likely telling LA that,LA offered up protections??

I don’t get why you are relying so much on the one outlier and ignoring the 80% others

[rascal]

And one has a good chance of never conveying so it's not even really three firsts. I don't know your point here. Do you disagree that the media called the Charlotte pick a first repeatedly while often glossing over its protection? If so then your point about assuming the picks were unprotected because Shams never mentioned any protection doesn't make much sense.

That trade is looking very bad for Atlanta and teams are noticing that not to make a similar deal with the Spurs.

[baseline bum]

So we just ignore that the report was Dallas sent a first to BKY here and then later…it was confirmed no protections as originally reported. And that same language was used for the Murray trade and…the only outlier was one pick?

So 1 in like 5 picks it that verbiage has been used on has ended up not being fully non protected & with BKY knowing they had an non protected pick from Dallas on deck and likely telling LA that,LA offered up protections??

I don’t get why you are relying so much on the one outlier and ignoring the 80% others

I don't know why you want to jump to conclusions so quickly that two picks means two unprotected picks, especially in an era where draft picks are often traded with protections.

[Russ]

So we just ignore that the report was Dallas sent a first to BKY here and then later…it was confirmed no protections as originally reported. And that same language was used for the Murray trade and…the only outlier was one pick?

So 1 in like 5 picks it that verbiage has been used on has ended up not being fully non protected & with BKY knowing they had an non protected pick from Dallas on deck and likely telling LA that,LA offered up protections??

I don’t get why you are relying so much on the one outlier and ignoring the 80% others


I don't know why you want to jump to conclusions so quickly that two picks means two unprotected picks, especially in an era where draft picks are often traded with protections.

I see angels.

I see the head of a pin.

[DPG21920]

I don't know why you want to jump to conclusions so quickly that two picks means two unprotected picks, especially in an era where draft picks are often traded with protections.

I agree traditionally thats true - but as of late? Deals have more than ever before been done with unprotected picks for all star types. Murray, Gobert, Mitchell, Harden and now Kyrie etc…It does not matter anyways, silly argument, but I dont see why LA would even offer protected picks knowing full well BKY had offers with unprotected picks. Just does not even make sense but sure it’s possible

[The Truth #6]

Feeling pessimistic. I wonder if Kyrie even shows up to Dallas. That quote from Dallas about not having any sort of new contract agreed to yet makes me think that KI already rejected it. There’s a lot of ways this can play out for Dallas but given this is KI I have to be cynical and think this ends up hastening Luka’s departure. They lost what little supporting talent they had.

If Kyrie shows up and actually plays hard then this is sort of what one can hope for in appeasing superstar talent: a brief window to ring before it self implodes. It sucks that Silver probably sees these trades as great media attention rather than making the league kind of a joke. I mean, you’re screwed if you don’t have superstar talent and half the time you’re screwed if you do have it.

[baseline bum]

I agree traditionally thats true - but as of late? Deals have more than ever before been done with unprotected picks for all star types. Murray, Gobert, Mitchell, Harden and now Kyrie etc…It does not matter anyways, silly argument, but I dont see why LA would even offer protected picks knowing full well BKY had offers with unprotected picks. Just does not even make sense but sure it’s possible

2027 was surely unprotected because of the Stepien Rule but I'd expect they were trying to put protections on the 29 pick given their history where they expect everyone to just hand their stars to them like every opposing GM is Jerry West.

[DPG21920]

2027 was surely unprotected because of the Stepien Rule but I'd expect they were trying to put protections on the 29 pick given their history where they expect everyone to just hand their stars to them like every opposing GM is Jerry West.

We will see - I dont know where Lakers heads are at. They are a mess but I think they will make a move..maybe thats their goal; not a star but depth where they dont have to give up unprotected picks

[baseline bum]

We will see - I dont know where Lakers heads are at. They are a mess but I think they will make a move..maybe thats their goal; not a star but depth where they dont have to give up unprotected picks

Honestly their move just looks like punting the season so they can sign Kyrie in the summer. Which is retarded since they lose what could be the last superstar year of LeBron in a year the league is so wide open plus would require them to renounce everyone so they're a three man team with a bunch of minimum salary guys, a far worse version of the 2011 Heat minus Mike Miller.

[DPG21920]

Honestly their move just looks like punting the season so they can sign Kyrie in the summer. Which is retarded since they lose what could be the last superstar year of LeBron in a year the league is so wide open plus would require them to renounce everyone so they're a three man team with a bunch of minimum salary guys, a far worse version of the 2011 Heat minus Mike Miller.

I think theres still a path to Spurs LA deal (even if 3 team) if LA is rational. They can still add talent and not have to use 2 unprotected firsts if they stop trying to only get a star that is never available for what they have. Get some legit depth

[Spurs Homer]

Hard to understand the Mavs moves…

they were a much better team with brunson and porzingis-
than with the dinwiddie version

and now with the kyrie version…

if i were a mavs fan i sure would prefer to see luka with porzingis, brunson, finney, etc…

than this version of idiots…

[cjw]

They would get a trade exception that is good for one year just for trading him into cap space.

They can’t generate $45 M in cap room. You’re forgetting the 10 empty slot charges of 1.8M each. You have to subtract that from the 45M, making it $27M.

Right, they could get a trade exception if they traded him into space (and only Spurs really offer that). But nothing if he walks.

And if he does walk, it’s $27 and not $45. I should know better by now to include roster holds but forgot they were that high… still, $27 million is enough for a solid third guy.

[DPG21920]

Ya - in hindsight, Mavs could have paid Brunson and still had Dinwiddie/Finney Smith and kept their pick to trade for someone else. It’s….not great overall management lol